The Jackie McKeown Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

Throwing Fits: The Jackie McKeown Interview – Summary & Key Moments

Podcast: Throwing Fits
Episode: The Jackie McKeown Interview
Date: December 1, 2025
Guest: Jackie McEwen (Creative & Design Director, Literary Sport)
Location: New York City

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with Jackie McEwen, creative and design director of the Toronto-based running/lifestyle brand Literary Sport ("LitSpo" for short). The hosts and Jackie dive into the evolution of modern activewear, the rise of "run club" culture, blending lifestyle and performance design, Jacquie's personal style and inspirations, and balancing growth in a crowded market. The tone is irreverent, sharp, and playful, with plenty of inside fashion/scene jokes, but also delivers rich insight into the realities and philosophies behind building a cult brand.

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Main Themes & Discussion Highlights

1. Jackie’s Personal Style and What She’s Wearing (01:21–05:21)

• Jackie arrives not in running shoes but "comfortable loafers." She emphasizes her approachability and humor regarding style.
• Outfit details: Literary Sport half-zip in plaid (Fall 26), running cardigan, vintage Gap khakis, Senna loafers, Literary Sport lifestyle tee, possibly Comme Ci socks, thrifted handmade polar fleece hat, vintage Armani coat (thrifted by partner's mother).
• Notable Quote:

  "I probably could have run here in these loafers, but it was a leisure stroll." – Jackie (01:25)

• Chat about collecting 90s Gap and vintage Eddie Bauer pieces for both the quality and nostalgia.
• Accessories run-down, including rings by local designer Sarah and heirloom jewelry gifted by her partner.

2. Running Culture, Performance Apparel, and the "Run Club" Phenomenon (05:27–21:30)

• Jackie explains she's done half-marathons, hasn't run a full marathon yet, and doesn't see herself as a competitive runner.
• Discussion on why people are drawn to running and run clubs—including social aspects and even their role as dating scenes.
• Run Clubs: Jackie sympathetically criticizes the design bro/dude heavy, sometimes "pervy" or try-hard energy at some clubs, while acknowledging their value as a modern social space.
• Notable Quote:

  "Often it's people who've got no other personality traits... I'm a runner and that's all I've got." – Jackie (20:18)

• Talk on etiquette (don’t litter gel packs!) and the blending of competition with masquerade (e.g., marathon runners in jeans, costumes, or while partying).
• Perspective on the non-necessity of premium performance gear for most amateur runners.

3. Evolution and Philosophy of Literary Sport (Litzpo) (11:34–45:06, 26:00–47:28)

• Jackie describes Literary Sport as born from a desire for activewear embedded with real personal style—“garments that felt more tailored and lifestyle-driven.”
• Many brands (especially men’s) skew aggressively “performance” in a way that feels “bro-y, brutal, and gladiatorial.” Litzpo aims to offer something softer, more minimal, and fashion-forward for a broader, more nuanced audience.
• Jackie’s telling brand description:

  "It's a running brand for people who smoke... you want to rip a cig after a run. It's not so serious." – Jackie (14:32)

• Brand appeals equally to runners and people who just want to look stylish and comfortable.
• Strong emphasis on texture, fabric, and "modular" design: the same pieces often work for both running and everyday wear.
• Significant surprise: the brand’s lifestyle pieces (pants, cardigan) are currently outselling the running category.
  • Litzpo is as much a "fashion brand" as a performance brand.

4. The Power and Intent of Imagery (33:16–39:19)

• Carefully constructed brand imagery is key to Litzpo’s identity—the campaigns, shot mostly indoors, are frequently “still, not running,” bucking activewear tropes.
• This strategy sets Litzpo apart from both the corporate performance giants and the niche "cool guy" outdoorsy crowd.
• Jackie admits the styling—inclusive of her menswear leanings and her partner Fran’s feminine touch—is rooted in their actual personal wardrobes: "It's selfish in a lot of ways... it's just how I want to dress."

5. Fabric, Design, & Product Insights (23:26–25:50; 39:45–43:47)

• Key textile: a Japanese crinkly, sheer nylon—Jackie’s favorite for jackets and shorts for its quiet, non-swishy quality.
• Litzpo is beloved by “fabric nerds,” but the brand is determined not to become too "techie" in its marketing—emphasizing instead a broader universe and aesthetic over hard specs.
• All Literary Sport products are thoughtfully named after poets and literary figures (sometimes by accident with too many "J" names in a season).

6. Navigating Growth and Influence in the Activewear Industry (43:47–47:47; 53:32–56:44)

• Larger brands are already drawing inspiration or directly ordering Litzpo products for reference, sometimes “not even trying to hide it.”
• Jackie sees the key defendable asset as the vibe and language they’ve created, not just the products themselves.

  “You can only make a sports bra so many different ways… but the language we’ve created, the vibe, that’s what they can’t copy.” – Jackie (47:28)

• She’s flattered, not threatened, by “big dog” attention.

7. The Price Point Conversation (47:54–52:07)

• High prices are a result of premium, mostly European or Japanese fabrics and small production runs.
• Jackie and the team are unapologetic about pricing—choosing to sit at the premium end for integrity and quality.
• Fans (especially runners) can justify the cost per wear, given durability and crossover use.

8. Jackie & Fran: Creative Partnership and Brand Operations (61:17–67:08)

• Jackie and her partner Fran, who also runs skincare brand F. Miller, seamlessly share duties in creative direction, styling, organization, and more.
• Their dynamic is described as both "complimentary" and hand-in-glove, balancing Jackie’s creative ideas with Fran’s organizational skills.

9. Fit Checks, Trends, and Pet Peeves (53:32–57:30)

• Discussing the average (and “worst”) running fits—namely, the preponderance of “Clà” hats, tie-dye socks, and over-styled, neon-by-numbers Instagram runners.
• Notable quote:

  “Five-panel supreme hat from 2013… too many panels. One too many.” – Jackie (54:15)

10. Collab Dreams, Growth vs. Niche, & Inspiration (72:05–76:33)

• Dream Litzpo collabs: a running shoe with Mizuno, eyewear with Varnay.
• Expresses selective and restrained approach to collaborations—saying no to those lacking proper alignment.
• Desire to keep Literary Sport special and not scale so fast that the brand’s spirit is lost.

11. Toronto, Drake, and the Canadian Fashion Scene (46:02–51:19; 78:00–96:19)

• Jackie reflects on Toronto’s unique (and sometimes frustrating) scene, its haters and support for homegrown talent, and why Litzpo intentionally doesn't brand itself as "Canadian."
• On Drake's style and wardrobe: Jackie worked on some Nocta campaigns, organized his massive fashion archive, and shares behind-the-scenes stories.
• Notable quote:

  "There's a whole floor—the upper floor is just like, archival closet... racks and racks and racks." – Jackie (80:02)

• Drake’s style is largely attributed to the skill of his stylist, Drew.

12. Personal Questions, Favorites, and Final Thoughts (99:13–end)

• Jackie admits to a shoe addiction (recent pickups include vintage Armani, Senna loafers, Prada mules).
• Routine includes "Pasta Friday" and loafing post-runs.
• She and Fran share a wardrobe, and she jokes that her partner reaps the benefits most.
• Humorously addresses whether they’d ever want Litzpo to become a Nike-sized behemoth (she values staying niche, special, and “nonchalant”).
• Advice for new runners: just get out there and give it a go—running isn’t always fun or painless, but it’s mentally freeing.
• Her most Canadian trait? Relentless politeness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Litzpo vibe:

  "It's a running brand for people who smoke...you want to rip a cig after a run."
  — Jackie (14:32)

• On copycat brands:

  "Some brands don’t even hide it… there is quite a few brands that are ordering product."
  — Jackie (45:37)

• On why price points are high:

  "We are spending the time to use expensive fabrics, and because it's a smaller collection, we're not ordering mass amounts..."
  — Jackie (48:03)

• On Toronto slang:

  "I feel like what everybody knows about Toronto is coming from 12-year-old boys that live in the suburbs..."
  — Jackie (10:43)

• On performance “necessity”:

  "You can run a 10k in anything you've got. Like, it doesn't need to be… we're not elites and we're not necessarily dressing elites."
  — Jackie (14:56)

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Key Timestamps for Deep Dives

• What She’s Wearing: 01:21–05:21
• Run Club critique & culture: 19:03–21:30
• Core Literary Sport philosophy: 12:00–15:00, 26:00–29:00
• Brand identity, imagery, and naming lore: 33:16–39:19, 57:36–60:00
• On price & production: 47:54–52:07
• Toronto’s fashion scene & Drake stories: 78:00–82:00, 92:00–94:00
• Rapid fire on shopping, dumbest purchase, and guilty pleasures: 97:09–100:23
• Advice for new runners: 102:37–103:32

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of running, subculture, and fashion. Jackie McEwen and Literary Sport present a vision that is nonchalant yet intentional—a rejection of bro-y “serious” sportswear in favor of a modular, real-life aesthetic. The conversation balances industry critique, personal storytelling, and practical wisdom, all delivered in Throwing Fits’ unmistakable tone of self-aware irreverence.

Follow:

• Instagram: @jackiemcewen
• Literary Sport: @literarysport
• Garden Group (Jackie & Fran): @gardengroup

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"Just go there. Just walk down, walk down the stairs. Just, you know, one foot in front of the other and get out there."
— Jackie, on how to start running (102:42)

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For more, join Throwing Fits on Patreon or follow them on socials.

Transcript

[Jackie McEwen]

A mochi moment from Tara, who writes for years all my doctor said was eat less and move more, which never worked. But you know what does? The simple eating tips from my nutritionist at Mochi. And after losing over 30 pounds, I can say you're not just another GLP1 source, you're a life source. Thanks, Tara. I'm Mayra Ahmed, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Tara is a mochi member, compensated for her story.

[Host 1]

For everyone who solves crime from their.

[Host 2]

Couch, knows more about forensics than their.

[Host 1]

Own job, and has trust issues with small town sheriffs. Amazon Music's millions of podcast episodes are calling. Just download the Amazon music app and start listening to your favorite true crime podcasts ad free included with Prime. Our guest this week always gets asked, how's your running? But never what are you running from? Her brand, literally, sport is setting the pace for the new wave of performance brands. It's a marathon and she's going to sprint the whole way until the big dogs of sportswear start to sweat. Or more likely just copy her. Call this cardio queen Rob Ford because she's got that runner's high. Based in Toronto and she's getting active on the pod today, trying to set up PR and yapping here to chat with us about the future of activewear brands, styling Drake and if run clubs actually get you laid. Creative director and design director of literary sport, Jackie McEw. And Jackie, how the hell are you?

[Jackie McEwen]

I'm excellent. How are you guys today?

[Host 2]

Fantastic.

[Host 1]

You didn't wear running better now?

[Jackie McEwen]

I didn't wear running shoes. No, I, I walked here today, so a leisure le. I. I leisurely stroll. Although these are comfortable loafers, I probably could have, you know, let's talk about it.

[Host 1]

What do you.

[Host 2]

What did you wear today?

[Jackie McEwen]

Today? Well, today I'm obviously wearing some literary sports, so I've got something coming for fall 26. I'm wearing our little half zip in plaid, in a searsucker plaid, the running cardigan from the season, some vintage Gap khakis. Oh, and then Senna loafers.

[Host 1]

Yeah. What about the undershirt?

[Jackie McEwen]

The undershirt is also literary sport. Oh, nice lifestyle tea.

[Host 1]

What about the socks?

[Jackie McEwen]

The socks? Oh, that's a really good question. I want to say that the socks are probably potentially com c. Oh, okay.

[Host 1]

What about this crazy hat?

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah, the hat is like the most asked question was just so funny. It's like a thrifted hat that was definitely handmade. It's like you can tell the stitches are a bit janky on the inside.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Jackie McEwen]

This was definitely like a project. I have a small head, so probably didn't fit them. And they were like, damn, I made this hat too small. So I've benefited from it, but yeah.

[Host 1]

Their loss is your gain.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

It's an interesting silhouette, obviously, but it's a polar fleece. It's a polar fleece. Yeah.

[Host 1]

You wear while running?

[Jackie McEwen]

No, I. Well, I will wear it while running, but I typically, it's, it's. It's a daily.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Jackie McEwen]

As soon as it gets to this temperature, it's daily.

[Host 1]

What about the coat?

[Jackie McEwen]

The coat is a vintage Armani.

[Host 2]

Oh, you and me both.

[Jackie McEwen]

And you know, shout out. My partner Fran, her mom found this for me also thrifting. She's. She's a thrifting queen.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

Her mother. Yeah. And so she's found us some like, you know, amazing like Ralph Lauren suits and things like that. And she just kind of knows now, like, it's like, if you're like, I'm looking for this stuff, she'll send a photo from the, like, it's like older woman who's just like, got fantastic taste. So she, she found that for me.

[Host 1]

Vintage Gap. Is that something you're collecting? Quite a few others that she's like, you just saw these khakis?

[Jackie McEwen]

I mean, not specifically, but I do really like 90s Gap. I have. I do actually have Quite a few 90s Gap pieces. Like my favorite leather jacket is this, like, it looks very Jill Sanders. It's this nice little boxy, super clean, minimal 90s leather jacket that I've had for like 10 years. And that's a Gap. And then just some other like button downs, classic, like chambray stuff.

[Host 1]

Not your vintage Eddie Bauer wrinkle free or L.L. bean.

[Jackie McEwen]

It's Eddie Bauer. It's Eddie Bauer. That, that shirt. Fran's wearing it today.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. That shirt has had so much life since, since you first saw that. But it's like.

[Host 1]

And zero wrinkles.

[Jackie McEwen]

Zero wrinkles. It's crazy how quickly, like you literally throw it out of the suitcase. It looks like a mess. And within like 10 minutes, it's all, it's all relaxed. So shout out Eddie Bower.

[Host 2]

A dream for traveling.

[Jackie McEwen]

Oh my God. It is a dream. And it's like the perfect, like, perfect button down.

[Host 1]

So what's the technology there? How is that possible?

[Jackie McEwen]

That's what I like to know. I'm like, it's probably some. And it's also vintage for sure. So it's like Got to be some illegal, like, going on.

[Host 2]

Poison.

[Jackie McEwen]

There's no way that's legal now because it's like you can see there's, like this sheen in the light that you're like, I don't know what I'm wearing.

[Host 1]

You're going to get shoulder cancer. It's a rat for sure.

[Jackie McEwen]

And it kind of even, like, has, like, tape seams. Like, it's a really crazy shirt. I don't know what's up.

[Host 1]

Running it.

[Jackie McEwen]

I know I should. Well, funny enough, we have a running, like, button up coming, so. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Okay. What about bra? Panties.

[Jackie McEwen]

Brown panties. What do we got going on? Calvin Klein.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Jackie McEwen]

Always Calvin Klein. And then Gap, actually. Oh, wow. Bra. They make the best, like, bralettes. No, not. Okay. Vintage. No, we're going new for that.

[Host 1]

What? Let's talk about all the hardware, the accessories.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Let's see what we got here.

[Host 1]

Signature puka shells.

[Jackie McEwen]

I'm not even. Oh, these ones are just like, whatever. Nothing like on the street. Kind of like vendor old jewelry for the ring. Do you guys know Sarah?

[Host 1]

Sarah, like, on East Broadway?

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

Actually right there, it looks like an awesome little shop.

[Jackie McEwen]

Amazing pieces. Like, she. This is one of her pieces that she makes. Like, I forget the name of the ring now, but this is like, kind of like an evergreen piece. And then she. She brings in, like, amazing, like, sterling silver bracelets, necklaces, stuff like that. I feel like you guys would like it. Good merch, too. Yeah, she's great. And then this actually, Fran had made for me like, eight or nine years ago. It's like just little pinky R. Wow, look at that. Little onyx. Yeah.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And you're sipping on a topo Chico.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What's your, like. What's your hydration drink of choice?

[Jackie McEwen]

My hydration?

[Host 1]

Yeah, like, outside of water, like, electrolytes and salts and.

[Host 2]

Or Gatorade.

[Jackie McEwen]

I mean, like, I don't really. Like, if I'm. If I'm running, like, you know, like, actually training running. Like, there's like a Morton electrolyte kind of like powdered.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Jackie McEwen]

Situation that I'll. I'll throw in a water bottle. But, like, hydration. No, I just. I'm a. I'm a water girl.

[Host 1]

You're not doing the gels and the goops and the tinctures and shit on.

[Jackie McEwen]

A Marath run or, like a half marathon. Yeah, yeah. I'm hitting some Mortons. I got a shout out because they're lovely. They always send us gels, so great.

[Host 2]

Gel floating. That's Rare.

[Host 1]

We don't.

[Host 2]

We don't have that many active people on the podcast. We're like, that's what.

[Jackie McEwen]

They're probably not even gonna know what I'm talking about.

[Host 1]

We're gonna ask you the most basic ass running question. Yeah, hold for the hour and a half or something. So, like, left foot, then right here?

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Well, you know, if you want to do a double right, you can see what happens. I don't know. Give it a go.

[Host 1]

What's etiquette? When you squeeze out a gel and you got the empty, you just throw it on the street?

[Jackie McEwen]

Like, definitely not. That's like, such a thing. That's like, really? I mean, like, during. During a ra Obviously people are doing that because there's people that are cleaning it up. But, like, when you run through, like, parks, I'm not. It's probably worse here, but in Toronto, you'll just see the, like, flow of people's like, weird goo and Morton jellies that they've, like, thrown on the ground. But no, you gotta. You gotta keep that in your pocket till you hit a garbage. It's like. Well, it's. You can't pollute.

[Host 2]

Littering is bad.

[Host 1]

Are you a marathon runner?

[Jackie McEwen]

I have never run a full marathon. Half marathons. Like, I grew up playing a ton of sports, so for me, running was always like, the kind of, like, secondary thing, but I always ran. And then it was only like, I guess about 10 years ago, I ran my first half.

[Host 1]

Half.

[Jackie McEwen]

I wasn't really that into, like, I think the culture of it is so interesting that, like, the competition is not really, like, the driving force for me. I just kind of like doing it. I did another half a few weeks ago for fun. And, you know, a friend of mine heard his back and he had like, a bib for Toronto half. So he was like, do you want to. Do you want to take this?

[Host 1]

Tapped in.

[Jackie McEwen]

I tapped in.

[Host 2]

You ran as him?

[Jackie McEwen]

I ran Stolen Valor. I was able. I was able to change the name. So luckily I got. I got my name on there. But yeah, I mean, like, it's not really like, the goal to be like, you know, crushing marathons, but I probably will do a full one next year, just we believe. So I. So I can, you know.

[Host 1]

What do you think of, like, I don't know. If we. You weren't here for the. Do you guys do anything around the New York marathon?

[Jackie McEwen]

We didn't this year. No. I think the idea, like, because again, we're based in Toronto. We. We did something last year during The Toronto Marathon. I think that, you know, again, we're not really, like, super performance driven. Like, obviously you can run a marathon in it. I have friends that have run marathon in literary sport, but we're not like, trying to really focus on, like, that side of the audience. But I mean, eventually, like, if it feels right, but on the culture side.

[Host 1]

Of it, where it has, like, at least in New York, it's become, like, it's always an amazing day, but it's a big party and now everyone's, you know, taking selfies and.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yes.

[Host 1]

What do you think as a runner? What do you think of people that are, like, runners that are, like, they'll stop and, like, smoke a cigarette or, like, have, you know, shoot a fireball.

[Jackie McEwen]

While they're running the marathon kind of.

[Host 1]

Thing, or, like, a guy does it in, like, jeans or whatever. I mean, I didn't. Tim.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I saw.

[Jackie McEwen]

I mean, like, that's just funny. Like, it's. It's good to see it, but I'm like. I don't know, like, why? I don't know. Sure.

[Host 2]

It's called getting attention.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Like, that's typically for you, I guess. I mean, it's the same everywhere. Like, you see, like, people in costumes and all that stuff, right? If you're having fun. Yeah, exactly. You know anyone?

[Host 1]

If you're. If you're not littering your goo packs.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Jackie McEwen]

As long as you're not throwing your goo packs, you're good. I don't know.

[Host 1]

I'm good with tortoises getting choking on goo packs.

[Jackie McEwen]

All right. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Let's get into the meat and potatoes of the podcast, which I don't know if that's how you carbo it or not, but you're based in Toronto, like you said. How real is that? Gerber ass. Smoke them. You accent in Toronto, fam. Is that It's.

[Jackie McEwen]

It's legit. Yeah, the man's there. The man's are there. But it's not really in the city, though. Like, it's a funny thing because there's, like, obviously so many, like, memes about it now. Brighton, it's in. It's in Brampton. It's in Brampton. Close enough. Brampton. Or like, Scarborough. The Scarborough mans All things Drake mentions. All things Drake mentions. But it's weird because his is, like, this, like, really exaggerated version of an accent that, like, I don't know anyone personally that talks like that. So I don't know, like, why that has evolved, but I. I don't know if. If everyone's kind of copying him or if this is like a legit.

[Host 2]

No, it's like, is he. Is it a chicken or the egg? In terms of Drake's influence with this ridiculous.

[Jackie McEwen]

Well, with the people that are talking like that, I'm like, I don't know. Like, I don't know if it's a cultural thing or if it's a Drake thing. So.

[Host 1]

Towards fam.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yes. I, like, I don't hear it on a daily basis. So I feel like for us, like a lot of us see these like, things and we're like, I don't even know what that means. Like, it's not a Toronto thing. It's.

[Host 1]

Do you have a favorite Toronto slang word that we New Yorkers might not know?

[Jackie McEwen]

I don't even know if we have one.

[Host 2]

Really.

[Jackie McEwen]

Well, I'm sure we do, but all.

[Host 2]

These fake ones kind of.

[Jackie McEwen]

These fake ones kind of like gerber ass.

[Host 2]

Gerber.

[Jackie McEwen]

What do we, what do we say? Like, I feel like.

[Host 1]

I don't know. I can't.

[Host 2]

I don't know.

[Jackie McEwen]

I don't know. Am I saying anything weird? Like, call me out if I say.

[Host 2]

Something so, so weird, dude.

[Jackie McEwen]

So weird. So weird.

[Host 1]

You're being so nice. It's crazy. Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

I don't know. What do we. I wish I could, like, hate on it. I don't. I don't know. I don't know what to say.

[Host 2]

You're just seeing the same tick tocks as everyone else and you're like, all.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right, I'm seeing the same stuff, same five clips. What? Yeah, like, what is Toronto slang? I don't even know.

[Host 2]

Is that like a. Is that a good representation, you think of your city?

[Jackie McEwen]

I mean, I don't know if I'm a good representation of my city, but.

[Host 1]

Are you from Toronto proper?

[Jackie McEwen]

I am, yeah.

[Host 1]

Like, born and raised.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yep. Yeah, yeah, Born and raised.

[Host 1]

From the six.

[Jackie McEwen]

From the six.

[Host 2]

Do you call it the six? How about that?

[Host 1]

Do you actually.

[Jackie McEwen]

No, no. Like again, you're not a 12 year old boy. I feel like what everybody knows about Toronto is coming from 12 year old boys that live in the suburbs.

[Host 1]

So that's culture, baby.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Truly.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. It's not like my experience on a daily basis. I mean, I live like on Roncesville, which is like this, you know, man's on Ronson fell. There's no man's on what is shut down? I wish. Yeah. No, you would notice a man's on Ronson. It's a lot of strollers and.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

What if people. What if man started swapping out The Nike Tech Fleece for literary Sport.

[Jackie McEwen]

Oh, hey, maybe that's an idea. Maybe. Yeah. Price little collab with ovo. Let's see what we can do. I don't know what's.

[Host 1]

Okay. All right. So you're not necessarily familiar with the Gerber. You smoke them?

[Jackie McEwen]

You.

[Host 1]

Them.

[Jackie McEwen]

No, I feel you guys are more familiar.

[Host 2]

We. We were very tact in.

[Host 1]

But you are the UK as design director and creative director of literary sport. Is that.

[Jackie McEwen]

That's. Yeah, that's accurate.

[Host 1]

For those that don't know, what is this brand and how. Maybe. How is it different than, like, other activewear performance brands out there?

[Jackie McEwen]

I think, like, we. We came at it from a running perspective. So I think, like, first and foremost, as much as it's like, general activewear, like, the. The intention is, is that it's a running brand. But I think what was kind of apparent for me as someone who has been running for years and, like, obviously, I like fashion, I like the gear, and, like, I was. I was buying into some of these more niche brands as they were popping up. Not to name any, but, like, I know, you know, you know who.

[Host 1]

You were satisfied.

[Jackie McEwen]

It's not even that, like, I feel.

[Host 2]

Like you have vision in the district.

[Host 1]

You think, for the.

[Jackie McEwen]

I don't know, it's all very nice stuff. And I think that at the end of the day, those were the options that were kind of presenting themselves that weren't Nike, that weren't, you know, Lululemon and the big. The. The big dogs. But I think when that started happening, I was like, okay, co. Now I finally feel like someone's making something more special that I actually feel, you know, somewhat connected to. But after, like, kind of buying into some of that, it wasn't really representing like, how I wanted to dress things that I felt like I would actually wear if I wasn't running in them. And I think that that's the thing, too, is that, like, the quality was there. It was nice to actually be feeling, like, fabrics that were, you know, like, more natural fibers, merino thing like that. But that actually looked like a garment that I would wear, not running as well. And I think that that's a rare thing that doesn't necessarily exist as, you know, as much in that space. It's still pretty. It's pretty sportswear driven. So I think it was trying to, like, kind of blur the line between, like, things that were right, like garments that felt more tailored and. And actually felt more, like, lifestyle driven.

[Host 2]

Without being, like, too snobby. Is it like a Question of tastefulness. Like, when it really comes down to it, where it's like, there is this gap of good taste, even with this quote, unquote, good taste, average in the market.

[Jackie McEwen]

But I also think because running is, like, evolving and growing as an industry, it. Like, it's the same as fashion. Like, how many menswear brands are there? Right? Like, and you can.

[Host 1]

Too many.

[Jackie McEwen]

I'm not. I'm not saying.

[Host 2]

He said it. Yeah, I'll say it.

[Jackie McEwen]

No, but it's true. But at the same time, like, there's variety, there's option. Like, there's nuance to that. Right? And, like, I think when, you know, you look at some of the brands, they are really great at building the universe around their brand, but it is a pretty specific person, and I don't think that everybody falls into that. So I think people that don't necessarily dress like the, you know, rock and roll dude every day, but find themselves liking the apparel of certain brands, they're gonna, you know, they're gonna buy because it feels good, but it doesn't necessarily represent how they want to dress. And I think for us, it sounds so obvious, but there was a massive gap in, you know, people that liked a little bit more minimal, less branded activewear. Like, it just wasn't really there, especially with the approach that was more specific to running and, like, the details and things like that.

[Host 1]

So, I mean, the first time we ever met in person, because we had corresponded a little bit. I don't know who exactly said it first. Maybe it was you, actually, obviously. But it was. We were hanging out, and I think you explained Larry Sport to a friend of mine that you're like, it's a running brand for people who smoke.

[Jackie McEwen]

Well, yes. Also.

[Host 1]

Yeah, Right.

[Jackie McEwen]

You want to rip a cig after. After a run. It's not so serious. Like, it's not so. It's not so prescriptive in the way that, like, I'm a runner and I'm serious about it, and I run marathons and I need this, or I'm an ultra runner or whatever. It's like, I don't know. It's just for a normal person who wants to.

[Host 1]

But is wearing performance fabrics necessary for, like, 99% of weekend warriors and amateur athletes?

[Jackie McEwen]

I don't think so. And I'll say this all the time. Like, I. I feel like when I ran in university, I had this. I. I still own them, but, like, a pair of, like, England Umbro. Tiny little running shorts. I used to wear those in this, like, gray, vintage Tee and those were like my favorite things to run in. You know, they, they, they do the exact same thing as any performance piece will do. I mean, now, like, getting more into it and like, getting to nerd out about some of the fabrics, they obviously feel better and like, there is a purpose to it. But like runner. Yeah. Like, you can run a 10k in anything you've got. Like, it doesn't need to be like, we're not elites and we're not necessarily dressing elites. So I'm like, you know, shaving 10 seconds off your time is not going to make a difference for.

[Host 2]

Are those other brands that we didn't mention, but we all know we're talking about, are they like, pandering to people that are trying to get more elite, you think, like, or like the, that that like they're selling a dream that is, like, not even necessary. Is that part of the marketing, you think?

[Jackie McEwen]

I think so. Well, I think that that's kind of built into the industry. Right. Like, it's like when we think about like, Nike and you know, the performance, like, I don't know how much they do it with the garments, but with like, the shoe. The culture of the carbon plated shoe has been, you know, like every year someone's coming out with a lighter, faster shoe and it's like the race of who, like, whose athlete won the Berlin and like, oh, Adidas won this year. Oh, on one this year. And it's like everyone's racing to get a better shoe. And like, that also will trickle into, like, the clothing. Obviously people will buy into that brand more. It seems like it's the faster brand or whatever. And I think there is an element of that, even with the niche brands where I think it also relates to even menswear with like the gorp culture being so huge in the last, like, 10 years where everybody wanted something that, like, you know, to get coffee and like the most technical jacket that you've ever seen. And it's like, obviously you don't even need that when you're hiking. But there was something about wanting like, the most techy thing or the lightest fabric or Dyneemas, things that like, you know, no one had ever heard of. But it sounds crazy. So you want to have the thing that no one else has. And I think that maybe is like a bit of a leftover concept that those people are still kind of chasing. I, I do think with some of them, they do have, you know, rosters of athletes that are like, ultra runners. And it is important, like if you're running these 100ks or, like, crazy overnight, like, there is a point where the gear actually makes a difference and. And for their athletes, it does.

[Host 1]

But if you're running three miles, like, no.

[Jackie McEwen]

And that's not really who we're. We're marketing to, and that's not who we're making clothing for.

[Host 1]

So the tone in, like, the arena of amateur sports is very gladiatorial. It's very, like, performer guy.

[Host 2]

So bro.

[Host 1]

It's very. Yeah, it's like, yeah, very broly. Very violent. Very brutal. It is, it is. And then, like, but for the most part, people are just like, having or doing. Doing sports. Like, just have fun.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

That's maybe like, make themselves look better naked.

[Host 2]

Yes, that too.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah, exactly. But, like, in the meantime, we want them to look better clothes.

[Host 2]

That's also true.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. At the same time, there's like, Well, I mean, it's very. It's better here. It's better in, you know, Paris and other cities I've gone to, but in Toronto, like, there is a lag, like, you know, when I've been occasionally to run clubs and things like that, where you see that people are, you know, really stuck in their ways when it comes to activewear. And it might not be like their choice, but they've had the same kind of ratty lululemon shorts for 10 years that they're. They're still wearing on a run. And I'm like, no, wear something better.

[Host 1]

You think? It's like, if you're someone that cares about self presentation and aesthetics and quality and taste and all that stuff, you should also be applying that to when you're just like, like sweating and trying to get some. Get some miles in for sure.

[Jackie McEwen]

And I feel like so many people now that, like, don't. Not even that sober culture is so huge. It is. But, like, I also think there's so many people that, like, kind of don't like going out anymore. Like, you know, that's going out for them is like running.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Jackie McEwen]

At a run.

[Host 2]

Social activity.

[Jackie McEwen]

It's their social activity. So it is almost kind of like now there's a consciousness there that wasn't there before. To be like, oh, damn, like, I'm meeting people at this run club, I should look good. Like, you know, if someone's trying to pick up on a run. Right. You want to also dress in a way that, like, represents some person, shows some personality.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Jackie McEwen]

You know, that you maybe have style in what you're wearing to run as opposed to just like, Your everyday.

[Host 1]

So what are your thoughts on run clubs? Come on.

[Jackie McEwen]

I mean, I understand. I understand why they exist. I've had like, you know, I've. Especially with like, you know, this project spending some time going to like activations and runs and trying to submerge into that culture or understand it a little bit better. I have participated, but I.

[Host 2]

You've embedded in a war zone.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I certainly brave of you to say.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

And I will say that I feel like there's some people that are like kind of doing it right, but for the most part it's not for me. And I also find that I don't typically find that I relate to most people there. Like, you know, you try to connect with someone, chat with them on the. The run and you're like, oh boy. Like, what's this person?

[Host 2]

Slow down a bit here.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah, yeah, just gonna tie the shoe. But it's always like gonna pick up.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

No, I'll catch you. But it's like a lot of like, it's very like graphic design, bro, like kind of worlds or like, is everyone trying to get.

[Host 1]

Is everyone trying to 100?

[Jackie McEwen]

I feel like that's. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, not, you know, like that's not the engagement I'm having with people, obviously.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

But there's definitely an energy of that and also just like sexual perversion. I don't know. I think when there's any sort of club and like this is just an observation at any sort of club, often it's people who've got no other personality traits.

[Host 2]

Get them. Get him, Jackie.

[Jackie McEwen]

I'm not saying this is for everyone, but you know, when like people are like, this is. This is all I've got. Like, this is. I'm. I'm a runner and I go to a run club and that's all I've got. And I'm not saying that's everything. I. I just feel like there's an element of that to the people where maybe there's not much else to talk about. Like, I don't know. It's not. It's not for me personally running as a solo sport. I'll run with friends that I have said.

[Host 1]

You run? What do you prefer solo running with. With homies?

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah, yeah. I got a couple of friends. I got a couple friends that I'll run with. But like, as opposed to like a group of six people, like, sure, that's.

[Host 1]

Probably taking the overtake it over the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Streets, but that's what it's like. And then you Kind of feel embarrassed to be part of that when, like. Like, there's, like, old ladies on the sidewalk that can't, like, get through because you.

[Host 2]

Tripping on shell packets.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Throwing gels in front of old ladies. No, I'm just. It feels, like, a little bit. Bit silly sometimes. And, like, I think there's good and bad to everything, but I think as it's grown, it's become this thing that feels a little bit like. I don't know.

[Host 1]

Is running a fad, like, where it's. Where it's at now, or do you think this is kind of where the industry will continue?

[Jackie McEwen]

I think it's going to continue. I think it'll come in and out of, like, conversation because I remember 10 years ago running with a run club in. In Toronto, and it was smaller at the time, but it definitely was, like, maybe like, a wave of running, getting popular then, and you saw, you know, people talking about it then, and then kind of, like, went down. It's the same with, like, I'm sure, you know, like, tennis comes in and out of popularity.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

And it becomes, like, a trendy kind of thing to, like. Or golf, you know, like, it's just. I think sports in general are always going to be, like, top of mind and active wear and performance is always going to be something, you know, I think more so now than ever. Like, there's more opportunity in the space, but I don't think it's a fad. I think it might be just, like, like, controlling the narrative in terms of.

[Host 1]

Certainly, like, very visible.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But, you know, eventually that visibility might fade a little bit, but people are still obviously gonna be doing it 100.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

As a. As a runner, like, would you rather it, like, be less popular or as someone who's, like, trying to sell close runners, Would you rather it go nuclear in terms of.

[Jackie McEwen]

Oh, I'm down with the popularity.

[Host 2]

Okay. Oh, yeah. It's good for the bottom line.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Jackie McEwen]

It's good for everything. Like, I feel like at the end of the day, like, sure, get out there, get running. But I. Yeah, I don't necessarily feel like I need to be like. Like, immersed into the culture in the same way as maybe other people do.

[Host 1]

Do you listen to music when you run?

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What do you listen to?

[Jackie McEwen]

Sometimes it's embarrassing. Well, as of recently, hopefully as of recently, I've just been putting on, like, the Strokes. Radio has been the one recently because there's so many, like, it's an easy one that I don't have to make the playlist. And I can just put that on and it's just like everything's a banger.

[Host 1]

But are you trying to distract yourself from the pain? Are you trying to like get like into a rhythm?

[Jackie McEwen]

Like it depends on the run. If it's a long run, I, I feel like I kind of want it to be more mellow because it just kind of like chills you out, like sometimes. Yes. If it's a shorter, quick run, you know, sometimes a little Sabrina Carpenter gets the heart.

[Host 2]

Let's go.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Something fun's best friend.

[Host 1]

I've heard people listen to podcasts because it's just like they disassociate.

[Jackie McEwen]

I do sometimes, actually. I do sometimes listen to a podcast if it's like, if I gotta put in like a 20k, like I'll @ least part of it throw on a podcast because it passes the.

[Host 2]

Time. That's what we're here for, people. In case you need anything, you know. Yeah, yeah, Keep going, Keep going. You don't quit. You got this. It's been 25min minute. Keep please, another two.

[Host 1]

Hours. I want to go back to your design shop. So like, you know, as a fabric nerd, what textile in a recent literary sport collection or upcoming has really gotten you super.

[Jackie McEwen]

Stoked? One of the fabrics that we use quite often is we have this Japanese nylon that's kind of like this crinkly sheer nylon. We initially use it for a few pieces in our spring 25 collection. And it's become for me, like I, I grab that every time. Like it's kind of like the perfect jacket and shorts. So I just love the movement. It's a super quiet fabric too. So it just like looks good, feels.

[Host 1]

Good. You can sneak up on your.

[Host 2]

Eyes. Go ninja mode.

[Jackie McEwen]

Honestly. Go ninja mode. Yeah, because you know, you don't get that swishing of the nylon. But we have a few pieces coming up for spring 26 and then the, the button up shirt that I was talking about that's going to be in the same.

[Host 1]

Fabric. So of the crinkly.

[Jackie McEwen]

Nylon. Yeah, yeah. So we're doing like a few colors and like a nice like nylon shirt. Taylor.

[Host 1]

Shirt. So the brand is kind of is, is divided into or the way it's merchandise is running and lifestyle. Does your design approach and creative direction change depending on which category you're like working on at that.

[Jackie McEwen]

Moment? I mean, a little bit obviously, in terms of like pieces that feel necessary for like the actual element of sport. Like we, we obviously will start introducing, you know, like we did an insulated tight for fall 25. So things that. That. I'm not going to put it tight into the lifestyle category. It's just not something that I think people are ready for just yet. I mean, we're. Dude, we're going tighter on pants, but I don't know if we're. We're quite there.

[Host 1]

Yet. But like literary sporters or.

[Jackie McEwen]

General. We're not. But I think that there's a general, like, movement towards a. A.

[Host 2]

Slimmed. We're in that cycle where whatever.

[Jackie McEwen]

Portion of it, you know, it's always. But I think we think about that obviously, slightly more technically. But we're with a lot of the lifestyle pieces. We're using similar fabrics. We are still using technical fabrics in the lifestyle pieces, but as you pointed out, like, we're putting a RIRI zip onto a half zip, whereas, you know, I'm using like a ykk, like performance zipper on a running jacket. So I think in those ways we differentiate in terms of like, maybe some of the hardware or like, you know, the silhouette is more, you know, conducive to movement for the running collection. And then, you know, for obviously a Terry hoodie or like a sweatpant, you're not necessarily gonna running. You could, but it's not really why we're designing it, but I.

[Host 1]

Can'T. Everything can, for the most part, cross over, like, lifestyle.

[Jackie McEwen]

Running. Yeah, very much. And I think it's also like, from, you know, my perspective as like, coming from a styling background, it's also like, trying to, like, see the pieces live together. It's modular, it's.

[Host 2]

Module. There it.

[Jackie McEwen]

Is. It is some USM holler right there. But we are, like, basically trying, like, I think that that was also like, why we even kind of of started to lean into the lifestyle category, was seeing a lot of gaps in terms of, you know, how it would present shooting a campaign. Be like, well, you know, it feels like it needs a pant here. Like, I'll be honest, that was.

[Host 1]

The.

[Jackie McEwen]

Really. That was the mentality I was like, I feel like, because we weren't necessarily initially coming at it from a perspective to build out lifestyle as much. It was like, maybe we'll have a hoodie, maybe we'll have a track pant. But I think as we started to kind of like, build out what the brand looked like, it felt very much like it needed that to support who the person was and also, like to make sure that, like, we were presenting it in a way that was a whole vision and we didn't have to supplement some of the pieces. From outside brands or things like that. And, and, and now it's like that is an equal category for us in terms of sales. And a lot of our customers who are not runners have really bought into the brand in that way that they feel like they can also wear a lot of the clothing and not need to be like, active to wear it. So I think that's really worked for.

[Host 1]

Us. Between the two, running and lifestyle, which is performing.

[Jackie McEwen]

Better? It's a good question. It's pretty close. But I think this current season, the lifestyle really like, blew up for us. And I.

[Host 2]

Think. Go.

[Host 1]

Laz. Yeah, it's a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Lifestyle. Yeah, it's a.

[Host 2]

Lifestyle. I don't want looking like I work out is a lifestyle. I think it is.

[Jackie McEwen]

Too. Right. And, and I feel like I, I just feel like maybe it's also because some of the press we've gotten or people that have ended up posting about it that kind of have a certain audience that maybe is not as tied to the running community. It was like, oh, pants are.

[Host 1]

Perfect. Does that surprise you're gonna look at me that.

[Host 2]

Directly? Is that, like, surprising to you guys that it's like, you know, being embraced by like, like fashion media or the fashion crowd versus, like the running crowd? Is that shocking at all or, or is that. I think, like, that.

[Jackie McEwen]

Better? I don't know, to be honest. It was kind of the intention, so I'm happy to see it. Like, I mean, we, we've never really like, specifically seeked it out, but I think just naturally, I think our approach to the brand was coming from a more fashion perspective. We actually initially were kind of even targeting more of a female audience in the sense that most running brands are very male centric. And I think that that was something that, for me personally, yeah, like, I mean, I wear a lot of menswear, but at the same time I was finding that there was. No, not something like. That felt a bit softer. It was all that kind of aggressive, like, super performance driven stuff. So for us, it was fast. Yeah, exactly. Be a fast bitch. Yeah, but we were.

[Host 1]

Just. Run fast, friend. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yes. Shout out all my.

[Jackie McEwen]

Fast. Hey, let's run. No, but it's like that kind of thing where I just feel like nobody was catering to that person. And there is, obviously that's a huge market that we didn't even realize. Like, it's like, I feel like it's with anything. It sounds so obvious, but it's like if you. You are finding that you can't, you know, find something for yourself, it's probably 100 other people that feel the same way.

[Host 1]

So. And now everyone's on GLP1, so it's like they. They gotta dress like they look like they.

[Jackie McEwen]

Run. Exactly. They need it. They need it. It's a facade now, so, yeah.

[Host 2]

They gotta cover their.

[Jackie McEwen]

Tracks. Oh, I just came from a run. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah. What? Okay, so, like, the fashion community has embraced it because obviously, it just looks good. What else has moved the needle for you guys? Like, you did a little showman parrot. You're gonna pop up New York. Is it, like, getting people at big socials to wear it? Is it fashion press roundups, like, the best jackets to wear right now? Like, what actually helps you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Guys? It's hard to say. Like, I think so far, like, what's crazy is, like, the substacks really move. Oh, that's been the thing. And kind of surprising ones. I don't know if I should mention anyone. I don't know if I'm gonna shout anyone out, but that's fair. I do feel like when we were a substack, but, like, I do feel like there's a few people in particular that when, you know, they mention it or they style it, we see.

[Host 1]

Like, a lot of want to shout them out or you want.

[Jackie McEwen]

To. Becky Malinsky is one that's, you know, we were like. I mean, she's lovely, but I think we were surprised that that would translate to the same customer. So that was a huge one, obviously. Leandra is a big one. And Jaleel Johnson, who's.

[Host 1]

Love? Shout.

[Host 2]

Out.

[Jackie McEwen]

Jalil. Yeah. Jal's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I feel like those are ones that have been, you know, really kind to us, and they've, you know, shared a few times, and we've seen a lot of traction there. But I think a lot of people, like, again, like, these people are not necessarily involved in running.

[Host 2]

Whatsoever. And I think, as far as.

[Jackie McEwen]

I can tell, they were connected to, like, the styling and the presentation. And I think that that's been also nice for us to see that, like, because it's active. And a lot of times, it's the touch feel that sells people. We had to find a way to show this and present this to the right audience that would get people engaged in the brand without having to, like, you know, be present and actually touch and feel.

[Host 1]

Everything. So that's a question that comes up a lot whenever people bring up literary sport to me is they're like, yeah, I wish I could, like, feel it, touch it, not just, like, shop it.

[Jackie McEwen]

Online. I Mean, we're working on.

[Host 1]

It. People love it. Yeah. What's going.

[Jackie McEwen]

On? I mean, nothing. Nothing physical, you know, as a retail space, but I think for us, like, doing more of these events and activations that we. That we can be present and also, like, opening up wholesale in, you know, in markets that I know we're, you know, we're probably not going to be as present in, like, in Europe and things like that. I think that's helpful for us to, you know, just have someone that they can drop in somewhere and touch and feel like. We. We are in a spot in London called Knees up, and that was our first stockist last year, and it was great. We still get people all the time, that message from London, and we'll direct them there and be like, you know, if you want to touch and feel stuff, you can head over there. But, I mean, it is. It is hard, especially for the running stuff, I think for the lifestyle stuff, you know, people in general are kind of like, I know what a hoodie is going to feel like. I. You know, it's not a hard sell in that way, but it's true for, like, a pair of leggings or, like, a pair of half tights. Someone wants to try that.

[Host 2]

On. I guess it's probably not shocking to you that, like, fashion nerds care are probably more about fabric than, like, jocks who might want that for performance.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right? Like, 100%. Yeah. And those are the people that always ask about things or, like, where's this producer? What.

[Host 2]

Are. You know, usually at an annoying level if we're being totally frank.

[Jackie McEwen]

But. Yeah, which is interesting because I feel like we're kind of, like, anti that in a lot of ways, like, as much as we are, like, I source a lot. I was just in Portland at the Functional Fabric Fair this week, so I was sourcing some new fabrics, and I feel like it's one of those things that we do put a lot of time and effort into it, but we don't really talk about it in that way, because I think that that also puts you in a certain category when you. This, like, you know, telling the story about all your fabrics and becoming this, like, that's who you are. That's the definition of your brand, is we are this, like, techie.

[Host 2]

Whatever. It gets stale and boring, for.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sure.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And I think no romance in that.

[Jackie McEwen]

Really. No romance in that. There's no. There's no story in that. I think for us, there is elements of that, but I think we just want to see it as a bigger picture. And I think that ultimately the customer, that we're actually, you know, relating to ourselves. Like, I don't really buy things that way. I care about fabric, but I don't buy it in the sense that that's the thing that's shoved down my throat. Like, I like to go in and if I touch something and, you know, it feels incredible, then great. But, like, I don't think. Think that's the only thing. Like, you want. You want to buy into, like, a story. You want to buy into a universe, right? Yeah, a universe. And as all the brands that I love, it's a universe. So I feel like it's finding what that is that feels actual, actually genuine to us and. And the brand.

[Host 1]

So. So how did that. So, like, you talked about how the lifestyle portion came out, because it was. Something was missing in, like, the imagery that you're putting together and creating a brand identity for a small brand in a category that is dominated and very top heavy by a few big dogs and has this, like, emerging cool guy tier that maybe everything kind of looks and has a certain vibe. Like, does the. How important is the imagery that you guys have worked on in terms of creating that brand identity to kind of separate yourselves from everything else that is out.

[Jackie McEwen]

There? I actually think that's been the most important thing because I think that 99% of the time someone that, you know, reaches out or connects with us, it's been because of the imagery. They got an ad, they saw a campaign, they saw it featured somewhere and again with something. What's.

[Host 1]

That? They saw the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Styling. They saw the styling. Shout out.

[Host 2]

Myself. Little pat on the back never.

[Jackie McEwen]

Hurt. No, I. I think it is something that maybe again, like, it all seems so obvious to me, and maybe it's because I've just seen so much of this world for so long, and it's obvious what's missing, but I think it's something fresh for people because when you look at these bigger brands, it all starts to meld together because whether or not any of them was doing it first, everyone else is doing it now. And I think that you start to see the bigger brands in. In, like, you know, the other kind of adjacent brands doing the same thing. And they all kind of feel like you could be looking at the same campaign over and over again. So I think there was all these things that right away in our mind were like, well, I never see a running campaign shot indoors. I never, you know, and it's like, not to be oppositional, but it's like laying down yes. Not running at all.

[Host 1]

Actually. Very. Like, a lot of the imagery is very.

[Jackie McEwen]

Still. Yeah, that's the.

[Host 1]

Point. That's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Intentional. It's very intentional. And I think we. We put in movement where it feels like it adds something to it, but I think that there's just so much of it and it's so easy to create that type of imagery that we see all the time, that I think there's more thought put into the actual styling. You can see the garments better this way. I think it actually makes you want to buy certain pieces because you actually can see how they can all come together. And we're just, like, kind of trying to make it easy for people designing it in a way that it does all make sense together. And. And you can't really mess it up too much if, you know, if.

[Host 2]

You. If it's not, you guys being contrarian, like, yeah, what was.

[Host 1]

Like.

[Host 2]

Yeah. What is, like, the motivation besides just, like, being.

[Jackie McEwen]

Different? Like, also just creating something that I wanted to see in the space, to be honest, like, as a consumer as well. Like, I think it just came from what, like, what attracts me to brands, like, what style of imagery, what kind of things feel more true to myself and, like, in terms of, like, styling it in a lot of ways that I would just wear it. So that's really what it comes down to is like. Like, yeah, like, I made this running jacket that I really like, and I would probably wear it with this, this and this. So I'm just really. It's. It's selfish in a lot of ways, because it really just comes down to, like, being able to, like, have a vision of how you would want to dress and then being able to.

[Host 2]

Share. Is there fear that it might not resonate if it is for you guys solely yourselves.

[Jackie McEwen]

Or. For sure, yeah. I think it's not always going to hit every time for people, but I think so far the. The feedback's been super positive. And I think. I don't know, I think it's. As soon as you start creating for other people, it always feels contrived. And I think as long as it's just maintaining that genuine kind of how we relate to the industry, and that might evolve, too. Other sports might come into play or things that feel natural for the brand. It's not always going to be so specific to what it is now. There is room for evolution. And I think as long as it's something that we feel confident about, I don't think it's going to. I don't know. People don't like it too bad.

[Host 1]

Is a lot of the styling that we see in the imagery is that, like, what's the relationship between your personal style and then, like, what we see in the images that you are in control of, because I'll see you and you're wearing the track pants with, like, row loafers in a way that looks sick. But you would never. I would never think about, like, incorporating performance wear into just, like, more kind of everyday.

[Host 2]

Outfits.

[Host 1]

Now. I've actually started myself to do that with the literary sport I own. Like, wearing it underneath, like, a quarter zip or something, where it's like a little. Little texture because it has all this holes and shit. Speed.

[Host 2]

Holes.

[Host 1]

Whatever. Whatever the technical term is perforated. Yeah. What's the relationship between like, your personal style and then what we're seeing in the lit spo.

[Jackie McEwen]

Imagery? I mean, like, litzpo is.

[Host 1]

Free. You can take.

[Jackie McEwen]

That. Honestly, I've heard it before, which is crazy. Damn, I wish I could give you credit. It didn't faze me that you said it, because people have said this before. I was like, yeah, totally. You've caught on to Lisbo. I think it's. Well, like, it's always kind of how I dress. Like, I think, like, a lot of my inspiration, just forever, has always been, like, a little bit of a mix of, like, sportswear with something more elevated. And I think that with the styling, a lot of it does feel, like, true to how I might wear something. But then also, I. I try to also, like, see a bit of the flip side of, like, adding a bit more of a feminine touch onto certain things. It might not be my style, but maybe more influenced by, like, how Fran dresses or, like, you know, trying to find those ways to cater to someone who is leaning more feminine because I am way more. More menswear driven than. Than women's.

[Host 1]

Wear. So who's a better dresser? You're a friend.

[Jackie McEwen]

Oh. I mean, I think she would agree that it's me. God damn, I love her. No, you know what? Friends love her. But Fran does have fantastic style. And there's a lot of days that she'll come out and wear something, and I'm like, damn, that's. That's good. But we share clothing, which is nice. We have the same shoe size.

[Host 2]

So. Oh, hell.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. It's very interchangeable. And I do feel like when I. When I buy something new with, like, it's usually that becomes, like, the thing that she takes, and then she'll wear it. Oh, that jacket'.

[Host 2]

Sick. And she's like, that's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Ours. Yeah, that's our.

[Host 1]

Jacket. Great.

[Jackie McEwen]

Purchase. I mean, she benefits way more from that than I do because, like.

[Host 1]

I. Like, it's more of a one way or it's.

[Jackie McEwen]

A. More of a one.

[Host 1]

Way. One way.

[Jackie McEwen]

Flow. Because, like, she'll. She'll wear these loafers now that I've bought them, but I can't wear her ballet flats. I mean, I could wear her.

[Host 1]

Ballet flat, but that's not.

[Jackie McEwen]

Your. But I don't think I'll be wearing them. You know what I mean? Like, so it's like she benefits more from, like, the androgynous kind of side of things, whereas I don't benefit.

[Host 1]

From. But we see. Okay, so. But what we're seeing in. In the litzo imagery, that's kind of drawn from, like, your personality.

[Jackie McEwen]

Swag. Yeah, I think so. Like, I think we. It's a lot about, like, what we're kind of feeling inspired by, especially the styling, because it happens so close to when the imagery comes out. A lot of that inspiration is just, like, things that maybe, you know, the week before, we're like, oh, this is sick. We saw something that inspired us or something like, old that kind of resurfaced that we were reminded about something or layering or things like that. So I feel like it is very much like how we want to.

[Host 2]

Present. Is that a newer phenomenon stylist, like, leaning into personal style versus, like, creating more, like, conceptual outfits? Is that like a more racist recent phenomenon.

[Jackie McEwen]

Or. I think it depends on what you're styling. Like, I think, like, in. In the brand universe. I think. I don't know. It's hard to say because I do work with other brands and. And there's not the same level of freedom. I think there are certain signature things that you can kind of build that are, like, as a stylist, that's kind of why they would hire you. And I think that it's important to have, like, signature things that you kind of do that put yourself into the brand. But ultimately, I think you also have to, like, play within, you know, the primers of what that brand.

[Host 1]

Is. What's your signature? Signature. What's my signature tank top over the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Tea? No, I wouldn't say that's my signature, although I do like the vibe of.

[Host 1]

That. Tonal on.

[Jackie McEwen]

Tonal. Tank top, tonal on tonal. I like. I mean, I feel like when I look back, it's funny because I look back at things that I styled, like, eight, nine years ago, and I was doing, like, the layered T shirts thing. I feel like someone recently, like, called it out and was like, oh, was that inspired by another brand? And I'm like, no, I've been doing this for years. Been doing this for. Well, I mean, it's nothing new. Like, I mean, everyone layers a T shirt. It's nothing crazy, but I think, like, signature is, like. I do think, like, things to be a little less. Less crisp, a little less pristine. I like something a little untucked, or I like a wrinkle where it shouldn't be. Because I think when things feel so clean, like, a lot of styling people or even, like, with imagery, people will just, like, retouch out all the wrinkles and get rid of the life to it. So I think for me, a signature would be to, like, have a little lace untied or something sitting. Not quite.

[Host 1]

Steamers. Hate this.

[Jackie McEwen]

Guy. Yes. Sit down in the pants before we shoot. Let's get a big.

[Host 1]

Wrinkle. Where do you. Okay, okay. Besides yourself. Like, can you talk about where you're pulling inspiration from, especially with. For a performance brand? Like, historically, most performance clothing has sucked a lot of.

[Jackie McEwen]

Ass.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Like, where do you. Where are you getting. Where are you getting inspiration from? Whether it's design, imagery, campaigns.

[Jackie McEwen]

Editorial. I mean, I think all of kind of comes from, like, just what you see in the streets a lot of the time. Like, I. I feel like it's a little bit of everything. Like, seeing what's kind of. Of currently happening in a world that is so far from performance is actually often what. What sparks some idea of.

[Host 1]

Something. And I think what we're going to get. Big jorts, big.

[Jackie McEwen]

Shorts. I mean, we. We kind of did, though. We did. Didn't you get a pair of those? The. The shorts we did last season? The, like, they're not jorts, but.

[Host 1]

I got a pair of the nylon one. Crinkly nylon.

[Jackie McEwen]

Pants. Oh, you have the pants. Okay. We did a short version of that. Some stuff that we haven't coming for next season. Like, it's just playing with, like. Like, I. I don't want to at all say suiting, but, like, some slightly more tailored jackets, but done in, like, some waterproof fabrics and things like that. So things that still feel like they have a place in. In. In the sportswear world, but maybe you can, you know, wear them outside of sports. So I think it's just things that I want to wear. How do we make them sportswear? I think that's kind of what we're trying to do a little.

[Host 1]

Bit. Well, Lawrence, kind of has been making this observation that's been driven by literary sport, where it's like, we have quiet luxury. We have athleisure. And it feels like literary sport is at the. I don't tip the spear of kind of this, like, emerging third thing that is maybe a blend of all the above, but it's for stylish people who are active, which is like, one.

[Host 2]

Of them and bigger than the sum of its parts. Because those two previous things are kind of like, whatever. Yeah. Or played or. Or terrible, you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Know? Yeah, exactly. I mean, I. I appreciate that because I think that's kind of the goal. Like, people have called it athleisure. We obviously don't like that. It's a terrible.

[Host 2]

Word. We hate that, to be clear. We hate.

[Jackie McEwen]

That. That. And I. Every time I see it come up, like, in an article, I'm like, no, no. But I really just. Yeah, but I think it's. It's good. Like, I think that the thing that has been happening a lot in the past year is that, you know, people have these kinds of questions because they haven't seen it yet. That tells me at least we're doing something that's not really existing yet. And, like, you know, people will try to compare us to quiet luxury brands outside of sport and things like that. And for us, we're like, what do they.

[Host 1]

Say? The row for rock.

[Host 2]

Running. Yeah, that's.

[Host 1]

The.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. You know, but, you know, you hate.

[Host 2]

That. You also hate that. Do better.

[Jackie McEwen]

Media. But what it tells me is that you have no other point of reference, like, not to hate on anyone. But I'm like, if you're saying that, like, we are certainly not offended. It's not a bad thing to say. But it just also tells me that you don't have any other point of reference. That's your idea. When you see something minimal, it must be the row. And it's like the inspiration. And when we, like, source reference samples and the things that we're really looking at, it's so far from the row that it's like. It's nice that that's, like, your obvious comparison, but it just tells me that you didn't dive deeper or look at.

[Host 1]

It. But it's also for the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Consumer. It's easy, it's digestible, but it's surface level regardless. I mean, it sells product because people who are a row customer can afford to buy.

[Host 2]

It. Yeah, they can afford.

[Jackie McEwen]

Everything. So I'm not. I'm not. I'm not, like, mad about it by any means, but I just Think that we have way more to offer in that. In that way. And it's. It's. It's nice that there isn't, like, we will be what people compare to in, like, five years. Is the.

[Host 2]

Goal. Do you have a name for that third thing? Or is there some. Is there, like. Not that things need to be named, but. But, like, when you got, like. Is there, like, some internal way that you guys describe, like, what you're designing? Is there. No, it's just literary sports. Just.

[Jackie McEwen]

Litspo. It's Litzpo. That's.

[Host 1]

Litzpo. There you go. That's Litzpo.

[Jackie McEwen]

Baby. No, it's just, like. Because I don't think, like. And maybe it's because we're such a small team and there isn't this traditional design language and, you know, there's not this, like, formal way of going about collections. It's like, Fran and I sit down and we talk about things that we want to see show up. We talk about color palettes, we talk about pieces that we'd love to wear, and then we work with the design team and we build out those pieces. There's not this, like, you know, there's not these people over our heads talking about, like, what needs to show up, because this is what consumers want, and there's not this pressure to brand book or something. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Exactly. So you're not working with merchandisers and trend.

[Jackie McEwen]

Forecasters. That's us. We're doing it all. We're doing it all. So I think for us, it's just like, really, there's like, an intuitive element to it right now. And. And because there isn't a point of reference in this world right now, we kind of have an open lane to. To kind of build out what that world could be. And. And that's kind of what we're.

[Host 1]

Doing. I mean, is that your own competitive edge that you know that as a small, upstart brand, you have over fucking behemoths like Nike Adidas, I think. So that is, like, you're creating a lane that people can only call the row for running.

[Jackie McEwen]

Runners. Yeah. And they're all obviously, like, I can. I can already see it. It's happening. They're trying to, like. Sure. Move into that space.

[Host 2]

And.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's inspiration drafting off of you guys. There's. There's definitely.

[Host 1]

Inspiration. You guys seen a lot of. You guys seen a lot of orders ship out to.

[Jackie McEwen]

Beaverton? We have actually. Yeah. And we've had orders. Some people.

[Host 1]

Donate. They can't get a.

[Jackie McEwen]

P.O. box. Let's just say some brands don't even hide it. Like, you'll see the name and you know what they do for certain brands. So I'm not going to name names, but there is quite a few brands that are ordering.

[Host 2]

Product. Flattering or annoying?

[Jackie McEwen]

Weird. Oh.

[Host 2]

Flattering. Oh.

[Host 1]

Okay. Phil Knight, you're unnoticed. Michael Jordan, you're unnoticed.

[Jackie McEwen]

Bro. I see you, mj. I see you too. No, but it's, I think at the end of the day, it's like flattering more than anything to be like, such a new brand and to have people already, like, biting, trying to. Because I think for us, like, I guess when you feel like you have, like a multitude of ideas that I'm not, I don't feel stressed about that. You know, when you're like, it's okay, I got something else, like, steal.

[Host 1]

That. I don't even care. It's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Old. It's already done. That's two seasons ago. No, but like, not even in that way. But I just feel like when you are, like, doing something genuine, like, you kind of know the blueprint, like, you know where to go next, and like, other people can obviously start to reference it. And if anything, that's just flattering. You're just building out this. You're just helping. You're just helping tell the story that we're telling. So what do you.

[Host 1]

Say? Are you seeing, Are you seeing people rip off the product? Is it the, the imagery, the vibe, the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Editorial? I think it's going to be the vibe, to be honest, because the product, like, you know, we talk about this all the time. Like, there's only so many different ways you can make a sports bra. There's only so many different, different ways you can make a five inch short. Like, yes, I think we are approaching it differently, but it's a short, you know, like, when it comes to, like, running pieces, like, we obviously try to use, you know, fabrics and details that feel different from those brands, but if that starts getting copied, you know, what is it at the end of the day that feels like we have ownership. And it really is like the language and the visual language that we've created for the brand and the overall kind of like, vibe of who that person is. And I just don't know that that will ever be able to translate from a brand like Nike. They're never going to be able to hit that same feeling for people. And I think that that's what we'll always be able to own. And I think it's not that something else can exist in this world. I just think that that's the one thing that we have that feels very genuine to who we.

[Host 1]

Are. Yeah. That's a niche versus, like, mass. Right. Like, a company that big needs to remain mass, otherwise they're going to fucking shit the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Bet.

[Host 1]

Exactly.

[Jackie McEwen]

Again. And I just don't think that, like, they can capture that same customer. I've got ideas of other things they could do.

[Host 2]

But. Oh, and they're available for.

[Jackie McEwen]

Purchase. Exactly. Nike got.

[Host 1]

Ideas. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about something that always does come up when literary sport is mentioned in the conversation. It's the price.

[Jackie McEwen]

Point.

[Host 1]

Yeah. How do you explain to people what goes in that hefty price.

[Jackie McEwen]

Tag? I mean, it's. Well, as you guys know.

[Host 1]

With. It's the row for.

[Jackie McEwen]

Runners. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Exactly. It's right there in the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Tagline. Wait, didn't you see that article? That's why somebody said it. So that's why. No, I. I think it's like, we are spending the time to. To use expensive fabrics, and because it's a smaller collection, we're not ordering mass amounts of, you know, of. Of the fabric. So it's like the price point is higher. It is. And there's. It's quality. A lot goes into.

[Host 1]

It. Is it all.

[Jackie McEwen]

Natural? Like, I mean, obviously some of the, like, perforated stuff. There's synthetic fibers, Right. It's.

[Host 1]

Not. Yeah, but it's not like. Yeah, but it's mostly, like, merinos and breathable.

[Jackie McEwen]

Fabrics. Yeah. Like, where possible and where it makes the most sense, we use predominantly merinos. We, you know, obviously like Japanese Terry's and. And, you know, most of the mills we're working with are either in France or Japan or Italy. So the price point is just higher on the fabric we're using. But I think that that also for us is intentional. We'd rather sit in a higher price point and make the clothing that we want to wear ourselves, too, because it is, again, it's pretty personal. So it's like, I don't also want to spend $200 on a pair of shorts that were, like, fabrics from China or whatever, like, because I think for us, it's. It's important to. To put that into.

[Host 2]

It. Throw gang. Wouldn't you like to look a little younger, maybe get a few more compliments on your skin or just feel more confident when you look in the m. That's exactly what Caldera Lab is here for. Their high performance skin care is designed specifically for men. It's simple, effective, and yes, backed by science. In a consumer study, 100% of men said their skin looked smoother and healthier. 96.9% notice improved hydration and texture. And 93.8 reported a more youthful appearance. And it's not just talk. Caldera lab spends years developing and testing each formula with leading cosmetic chemists to make sure it actually.

[Host 1]

Works.

[Host 2]

Works? If they don't love it, they don't release.

[Host 1]

It. That's right, Lawrence. We just wrapped up Turkey day. I had to bust out the eye serum because those yams had me yammering and the brussels sprouts had me muscling out, if you know what I mean. Late night. So it was kind of a rough night. The eye serum though, helped me reduce the appearance of my tired eyes, dark circles and puffiness. With a breakthrough peptide complex and adaptogens that support skin resilience, the eye serum will help you look well rested even when last night's tummy trouble had you feeling.

[Host 2]

Otherwise. Oh yeah. And you know, this ad sounds so good because I'm spending the holiday in Mexico. But you know, one thing I didn't leave behind back in the states and that's all of my Caldera lab skincare, including the base layer, a nutrient rich moisturizer that absorbs quickly and provides a non greasy matte finish. So I look my best whether I'm in or out of the country. Whether you're starting fresh or upgrading your routine, Caldera lab makes skincare simple and effective. Do not settle for drugstore junk or steal your partner's products. Get guys. Elevate your routine with skincare made for you. Head to calderalab.com throwing fits and use throwing fits at checkout for 20% off your first.

[Host 1]

Order. But you also mentioned this. Like you see these run club bros wearing, you know, shorts that they've had for the last 15 years and it's like, yeah, a lot of this stuff does just stick around for 15 years and if you look in your.

[Host 2]

Closet, like it does not.

[Host 1]

Degrade. I'm saying if you're wearing, if you look at what you're wearing in the gym and it's probably like 15 year old stuff. So it is like, oh, like if you want to get into cost per wear, it's like, yeah, if you invest in this shit, it is going to last literally.

[Host 2]

Decades. I need to wear it to the bar afterwards because it's going to look.

[Jackie McEwen]

Cool. Thank you.

[Host 1]

Larry. Too busy getting sucked from your run.

[Jackie McEwen]

Club? This is it. All goes well, you don't need to go to the.

[Host 2]

Bar. No, but how many Michelob Ultras.

[Host 1]

This literary sports can look great on the floor of your.

[Jackie McEwen]

Bedroom? This is the campaign do for us. Yeah, yeah, but it's true, honestly, that's a great point because I feel like at the end of the day if, yeah, if you spend it like 400 bucks on a sweater or like a, like we made a little cardigan, a little merino cardigan. Like a lot of girls are wearing it just day to.

[Host 1]

Day. It's like it's not what should cost.

[Jackie McEwen]

These. It's also just what things cost. But if you're wearing it daily and it's not just for, you know, like going to the gym or just for activity, then I feel like it is worth it. And that's maybe also a lot of the thought of it too is that, you know, like you're not spending money on just active wear. It's wardrobe.

[Host 2]

Stable.

[Host 1]

Right. Are you in Litzpo head to toe when you're running or working? Working.

[Jackie McEwen]

Out? When I'm running, yeah, definitely. Well, yeah, I, I mean working out, I don't know. I do a little hit workout here and there. But what would the, maybe a kettlebell.

[Host 1]

Swing. What were the running fits before you were able to drip yourself out in your own.

[Jackie McEwen]

Again? I'd be plugging some other brands, but I mean, umbrella.

[Host 2]

Shorts. We said the, the old shorts.

[Jackie McEwen]

The old Umbro shorts for.

[Host 1]

Sure. Were you in performance stuff or were you in like, like a flannel button up or.

[Jackie McEwen]

Whatever? I was, I was in a mix of things. Like I, I have a lot of vintage te's that like I still have that were for running just because obviously the weight of it is perfect. Slubby slubby tea. Yeah, I have one that says cool runnings on it and that was, that's fire. So good. It's like a paper thin, like. Yeah, it's like a paper thin.

[Host 1]

Like baby blue T shirt, fat man on.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. I wish that would have been cooler. But yeah, like stuff like that. I don't know. I, I, Yeah. And definitely some of the newer niche brands I was wearing pieces but like again mainly menswear driven, which is more noticeable to me in active and running wear than it is in like lifestyle pieces. Like I can wear menswear, you know, day to day, but when you're wearing like a pair of running shorts that are not made for women, they fit.

[Host 2]

Weird.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. So those were the kinds of things that I started to like notice the gaps where, you know, some of these premium like niche brands Were not quite catering to like women's.

[Host 1]

Silhouettes. They were just. They were on the shrink it. And pink it.

[Jackie McEwen]

Tip.

[Host 1]

Absolutely. Damn. Sex.

[Host 2]

Yeah. The.

[Host 1]

Worst. What's the. What's the average running fit you see these days? And. And how bad is.

[Jackie McEwen]

It? Well, there's a lot of. Oh, I shouldn't say.

[Host 1]

This. Yeah, you can. Come.

[Jackie McEwen]

On. There's a lot of cla.

[Host 1]

Hats.

[Jackie McEwen]

Huh. Do you know this.

[Host 2]

Brand?

[Host 1]

The. Is that cla Cialis.

[Jackie McEwen]

Cla. It's this brand. I think that they're from Montreal, so I don't want to hate on it, but they're. It became this. Okay. So it's giving. It's giving like five panel supreme hat from like.

[Host 1]

2013. Oh, I. Yeah, you've seen these.

[Jackie McEwen]

Hats. But they started getting like quirky with them where like neon panels in all these different colors, just like big branding across the front. So I, I feel like I just have a hard time with a five panel hat to begin with. Like that kind of. Or is it a six.

[Host 2]

Panel? Yeah, I know what you.

[Host 1]

Mean. Many.

[Jackie McEwen]

Panels. How many panels? Too many panels. One too many.

[Host 1]

Panels. But it's a like a 24 panel.

[Jackie McEwen]

Hat. And it's got like. It's got like the wheel on top. Yeah, you might as well. Yeah. And it's got like the, the like, like, like the. What's it called? Like the webbing, like tightener strap. The whole thing.

[Host 2]

Is. Yeah, it just.

[Host 1]

Quick. The quick.

[Jackie McEwen]

Tie. The quick tie. And then I don't know, it just looks a bit like dorky to me. So it'll be like that with like, maybe you're wearing like a lavender. Like you're trying to be a little bit like out there with like a lavender jacket and like it's very like marketing agency guy. Exactly. Like just like some really crazy.

[Host 2]

Like. I don't know, like that's when that guy gets crazy with his fits is when he's like, he's feeling. He's peacocking in the streets.

[Jackie McEwen]

Running. He's got like tie dye socks.

[Host 2]

On. Oh, fun.

[Jackie McEwen]

Socks. And then he's wearing like a neon shoe. Like there's a lot of color going on that I'm like, I don't know. Or there's like the safety. There's also the all black. The all black.

[Host 1]

Fit. What do you think about that?

[Host 2]

Those. The health.

[Jackie McEwen]

Goth. I. I don't know. Like, I mean, I guess literally there's a lot of all. You know, you can wear an all black fit, you know, within that as well. But yeah, mostly it's like, it's just some of these.

[Host 1]

Like. But the colors of literary, I think, are, for me, like, one of the main draws where it is, like, depth. There's a depth to every color, whether it is a black or whether it is like a burgundy, not just like, pastel and bright.

[Jackie McEwen]

And.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

Or. And we pick them like. Like, we also pick the pantones. We dip everything. So we are, like, custom coloring everything we, you know, like, we have coming for. For spring next season. We have this, like, kind of deeper chartreuse. So that's like our neon. Like, if we're ever going to do color, it's. That is probably as bright as it's going to go, but, like, things that hopefully all kind of work together so that you can't be the guy that's, like, wearing, like, purple and, like, tie.

[Host 2]

Dye. You're going to make it so that some guy can't embarrass himself and have to tell literary sport. I'm sure that's a value prop. You.

[Jackie McEwen]

Will. His own problem. Not. Not from a Garmin perspective, but I don't know. He'll do his.

[Host 2]

Thing. We'll save you from yourself. Just let.

[Jackie McEwen]

Us. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we can't control. We can only control so much. We can do what we.

[Host 2]

Can. What do you think of when you see someone, like, pairing literary sport with, like.

[Jackie McEwen]

Whack? Oh, I don't mind that. I think it's.

[Host 2]

Great. Oh.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Oh, I thought you said.

[Host 2]

Black. No.

[Jackie McEwen]

Whack. Whack. Oh, no. Well, we have yet to see that, like, we're not, like, from, you know, at least, like, from our customer base so far. Like, anything we're tagged in, it's all people who are putting it together, I think. I think we've created a bit of a template for them. So I think at least what I'm seeing so far, it's like someone kind of almost trying to, like, replicate what they've seen in the campaign or like, putting, like, you know, the wide leg pant with, like, a nicer sweater or, like a cashmere or something. And that feels like. Okay, you get it. Like.

[Host 2]

You'Re. And I'm not saying that you would have whack customers, but as James and I have on designers and as, like, let's just say, like, fashion, even menswear gets more popular. We're always wondering, like, what goes through the designer, creative director's mind when they see this thing that they care so much about. They work so hard on. On, like, worn badly. Even if it. We can we could. It's subjective, but, like, you know, when you see it, like, what is that thought.

[Jackie McEwen]

Process? Well, I mean, I think at the end of the day, it's like, you. You. You'll never be able to control.

[Host 1]

That.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right. There's literally nothing you can do. It's disappointing, to say the least, because you're like, wow, you really missed the point of that piece. But, like, I think at the end of the day, like, so far, like, I think what we make so far is quite minimal. That I don't know what you would do. You. Yeah, like, I'm sure. I'm sure people will find a way, but, like, I'm not sure what.

[Host 1]

Else. They.

[Jackie McEwen]

Will. Yeah. You're like, I'm determined. I'll be the one to do.

[Host 2]

It. They absolutely.

[Jackie McEwen]

Will.

[Host 1]

Yeah. What's up with the name Literary Sport? Tell us about that. So that's another thing I get a lot of. Besides.

[Jackie McEwen]

People. We get a lot of that, too.

[Host 1]

Yeah. I mean, so even though now we call it.

[Jackie McEwen]

Litzpo. It's Litbo. Yeah. We're just gonna change it to Litzpo.

[Host 1]

Now. But what is it? Like? What. Where did that come from? What does it even mean? How does it apply to the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Brand? I mean, it doesn't really mean anything, but basically, one of the founders, he went to school for literature. He's really into, like, writing poetry. You know, more of a sensitive soul. He. He. He was a big runner. He's a little bit older. And I think for him, it was. There was a different name, which I won't tell you, but there was a.

[Host 2]

Different. Oh, is that.

[Host 1]

Bad?

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. No, no, no. It's not even. Not. Not even necessarily that it wasn't good. But basically, when Fran and I were brought up, that's exactly what it was. How did. No, but, like, Fran. When there was just the name for the.

[Host 1]

Brand.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. So that's the one thing that existed, was a.

[Host 1]

Name. And they're like, okay, now do.

[Host 2]

It. Do your job.

[Host 1]

Now. Based off this. Go do.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. See what you can do. No, but. And there was, like, a nice story behind the name, but then let's just say, like, you know, we started working on it, and everything kind of came to be what it is. And about three or four months before the brand launched, there was a conflict with. With something else. Okay, so Literary Sport Camera. Very late in the game. And for good or for bad, I'll take the blame because it was my name. And the reason being was we were like. Let's just be literal about it. Like, let's not try to, you know, use a foreign word that meets something else. Or try to, like, have one of those hard Cialis. Exactly. Have something that's hard to pronounce. People are like, what is this? We're like, you know, something that was important was the kind of, like, poetic, literary aspect of the brand. Brand. It's active. And I was like.

[Host 2]

Just. You're pandering to your.

[Jackie McEwen]

Boss. Call it what it is. Keep it simple. Yeah, let's not, like, over complicated. And, you know, we were all kind of like, I don't know. But, like, I think it's grown. It's grown on all of us. But it is what it is and everything. It is very, like.

[Host 1]

Literal. Every product is named after a poet or female.

[Jackie McEwen]

Writer. Just male and.

[Host 1]

Female. How do you. How do you be like, oh, you know what? That's a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Joyce. Ask Fran. Fran names all the products. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes, you know, there was a season where there was, like, four different J names, and I'm like, what did you.

[Host 2]

Do? And we're all like, she's going.

[Jackie McEwen]

Alphabetically. Yeah, yeah. We're like the Joanie Shore. The Joan. Like, there was a lot of that, but, you know, she was like, oh, I didn't even think about that. But it's a lot. It's a lot every season to come up with, like, a ton of new names. But, yeah, that's. That's all Fran. And there is, like, consideration taken into, like, what the garment is and trying to relate it. Like, you know, if something does feel like, obviously, like, big striped hat.

[Host 2]

Would be a Seuss naturally. You know, things like.

[Jackie McEwen]

That. I like where you're.

[Host 2]

Going. I'm a copywriter by trade as well, so we.

[Jackie McEwen]

Do. We do have, like. I mean, there was, like, subtle things. Like, we have, like, it's hopefully finally coming for spring 26, but we have, like, a running hat coming, like, in a nylon that we designed. And, like, we call that the Burns. Like Robbie Burns. But it's also because my middle name is Bernadette, and sometimes they call me Jackie.

[Host 2]

Burns. So jb, B, J.

[Jackie McEwen]

Burns. So technically named. Definitely. Technically going to be named after me, but it's Right. I like a hat, as you can.

[Host 1]

See. Yes. So how many panels on that? On that bad.

[Jackie McEwen]

Boy? You know what? There's. There might be. There might be seven. It's not really panels. We got some seams.

[Host 1]

Happening.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. Yeah. I feel like you've seen. I. I wear it like, I'm usually wearing it at the events. It's just a black hat, nylon hot.

[Host 1]

Hat. Well, normally you're wearing a Mew Mew hat with the Emily Don long pink pin in.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. Yeah, that's true. That's.

[Host 1]

True. You retired the Mew.

[Jackie McEwen]

Mew. Not retired. You know, it comes and.

[Host 2]

Goes. I'm really trying to, like.

[Jackie McEwen]

Retire. I'm trying to break it down, though. But I want it to naturally break down, so I really try. Like, I don't want to be the. The one that's, like, papering the.

[Host 2]

Edges. Right. You want to naturally torch.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. Yeah. So I'm really trying. Like, anytime I'm on vacation, I take it so I can like the.

[Host 2]

Vacation. I love that move. I got one.

[Host 1]

Too. But it.

[Jackie McEwen]

Won'T. Like, it's so sturdy. It will not break.

[Host 1]

Down. This quality's too.

[Host 2]

Goddamn. God damn.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. Yeah, it's so thick. I've, like, put in the washing machine. I'm like, can this thing just start fading already? Like, it's holding up way too well. So shout out. Good.

[Host 2]

Quality. Truly get what you pay.

[Jackie McEwen]

For.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Do you have. Do you do the thing where you, like, you have one accessory that you wear every single day for, like, I don't know, a certain amount? You're just like, that's your.

[Jackie McEwen]

Thing.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Whether it's this hat where there's.

[Jackie McEwen]

A Mew mew, I get. Yeah. I kind of get, like, into, like, one thing for a while. Like, I mean, I have a lot of hats. Like, that's to friends, like. Like, demise. Like, half the closet is, like.

[Host 1]

Hats.

[Jackie McEwen]

Damn. And it's a lot of hats. No. I'm sure you guys have a lot of hats.

[Host 2]

Too.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Like, people probably send you tons of hats or, you know, that's the one easy thing to pick up all the time. So I do have a lot of hats, but I'll get into, like, a. A mode of, like, one hat.

[Host 2]

Fixation, and then it becomes part of, like, the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Uniform. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah. What's. What's the best thing about working with your life partner?

[Jackie McEwen]

Friend. Oh, we actually work really well together. I know, like, it's scary for some people to work with their partner because all sorts of things can come up. But I think we've been together now for, like, 12 years, and F. Miller launched, like, 11 years ago, and we kind of started that together, like, obviously very much friend, but, like, we worked on that brand together and, you know, kind of bringing it to life.

[Host 1]

And intentionally worked on it together. You kind of were just like it because you're already together and the brand was in the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Works. It wasn't in the works yet that it came about, like, when we first started dating, she was. Yeah, it was just like a whole thing that she was interested in starting and that kind of. Like, I was styling at the time, but we were, you know, I just think working in the creative space. She worked in the fashion industry as well, and it's just like, something we started to kind of naturally work on together, to bring to life and, like, obviously doing all the imagery and everything for that and the branding, the building of that brand. We kind of got used to having a flow of working together. And, you know, with styling, there's often times when, like, I would have a few shoots going at once, so I'd bring her on to assist for some of them, just because we'd already be working on something together. And I'd be like, all right, you can come on stuff sudden. We'll. We'll get you to do this as well at the same.

[Host 1]

Time. So I think for Take a Girl to Work.

[Jackie McEwen]

Day. Literally.

[Host 2]

Literally. Who did the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Job. Yeah. And then, you know, it just became this fluid thing where we started working on a lot of creative projects together because we found that we actually do work quite well together. And I think we have different strengths, so it works out really well. I can trust her to do certain things and vice versa. So compliment each other. Yeah, compliment. And same with literary, like, as much as, like, a lot of the design. Fran Yin and Fran. Yeah. But, yeah, no, it's. I feel like it's actually been good. Like, we seldomly disagree, but if we do, it's like, usually she's.

[Host 1]

Right. Or you have to be like, all right, it's five o'. Clock. Shut the up. No more.

[Jackie McEwen]

Work. I want to be like that. She's more of a workaholic, so I feel like it's actually like she's like, oh, now I have to start working on my own brand. Doing, like, literary all day, or I had to help you on a photo shoot all day, and now I have to sit and work on my own brand. Fran. So Fran will be working probably till, like, midnight most nights. Yeah, she's. She's a workaholic. But I feel like, you know, going into next year, we're trying to, like, work, life.

[Host 2]

Balance. It's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Necessary. We need it. We need it because our life is work. But it's nice, like, when. Even when we're here, it's like, we were working this weekend, but then, you know, we get a couple days.

[Host 1]

Off to, like, actually enjoy do you schedule time apart when you're on, like, work trips.

[Jackie McEwen]

And. Well, I was in Portland by myself, like, for the first three days.

[Host 1]

Hand delivering literary to Beaverton.

[Jackie McEwen]

Residents. I was actually. Yeah, just a quick stop off at the office. But do you guys want to see what's coming next? Because I can show.

[Host 2]

You. Let me save you the trouble. I.

[Jackie McEwen]

Just. Yeah, yeah, Like, I'll just show you.

[Host 1]

This. Here's my factory.

[Host 2]

Manager. Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right. Let's just bring it all. Ready? But yeah, like, I mean, like, when. We also have, like, separate friends in the city, too. So we'll, like, she'll go for lunch with someone and I'll go see someone else. But so I. I feel like, you know, we try to do our own thing as much as we can because we do spend a lot of time together.

[Host 1]

Obviously. Right. What's the worst thing about working with.

[Jackie McEwen]

Fran? The worst.

[Host 1]

Thing? Not Fran. Working with your life.

[Host 2]

Partner.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Just general. It probably is what you're saying that, like, there is, like, kind of a moment where there is no break in work, because even when we're, like, out for dinner, something will come up or we'll get an email, and so you kind of like. Like, you know, you wouldn't otherwise bring up something that we both got the same email about at. At a dinner where we're trying to not work. So I think that that's the thing, too, is, like, there isn't a lot of separation. So.

[Host 2]

That'S. It's always lurking. It's always.

[Jackie McEwen]

Lurking. It's always lurking. Yeah. So that's the tough.

[Host 1]

One. But who's put more on the credit on the corporate credit.

[Jackie McEwen]

Card? I mean, I think it's.

[Host 2]

A. Is it the shopper? The buying reference.

[Jackie McEwen]

Pieces? It might be. It might be me. It might be.

[Host 1]

Me.

[Jackie McEwen]

Really? Yeah, I think it might be me.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Okay. Who steals more samples for their.

[Jackie McEwen]

Closet? Oh, that's definitely me. That's something. But. But Fran doesn't really run. Like, she will. She'll, like, go for, like, you know, I kind of forced her this summer to start running, so now she's kind.

[Host 2]

Of.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. I didn't force her, but I.

[Host 1]

Was like, what a partner frame. Blink twice if you're.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. She's just, like, in pain. No, but like, a few of our friends who are not, like, big runners, a couple of her friends were like, I think I want to get into this because myself and my friend Justin were always running and the. The wives were kind of like, well, can we get in on.

[Host 1]

This? So Wags.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yes. So, so we, we started going on some runs with him. So I feel like now she's starting to take some of the running stuff. But like for me it's definitely. Obviously I'm like using more of the.

[Host 1]

Pieces. So is that almost helpful to have Fran as a non runner having that.

[Jackie McEwen]

Perspective?

[Host 1]

Yeah. Go into the, into.

[Jackie McEwen]

Literary. I think so too because it also like, I also trust her in terms of like the pieces that are going to call to someone who's not a runner. Like I like, I think when we're talking about things and like even just in like the fittings, when we are like deciding on like lengths of things and pieces, like, I'll often be like, I like it like this because I'm thinking about if I'm running in it. But like, would you wear this? Or like I think we can kind of play off of each other in that way where hers perspective is probably like quite related to a lot of these. Like more fashion.

[Host 2]

Orient. Delicate dance of form versus.

[Jackie McEwen]

Function.

[Host 2]

Exactly. You guys both represent the side of the coin. You know, that's actually really.

[Jackie McEwen]

Convenient. It's very convenient.

[Host 1]

Yes. Let's talk about you being a lazy piece of. What's your go to cheat.

[Jackie McEwen]

Meal? Ooh, Pasa. We do pasa Fridays every Friday. Every.

[Host 2]

Friday. Carbo.

[Host 1]

Loading.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Is that not intentional? It's not a running thing at all. And a lot of people are like, oh yeah, you carb load. And I'm like, no, we're like every Friday we just. That's our night to have pasta. So it's like nice night of like trying to not work and just like enjoy a meal. So like not always from the same place but like we'll go.

[Host 2]

Out. Oh, you're not cooking, you're.

[Jackie McEwen]

Ordering. Sometimes we are. Yeah. Sometimes we are. It's just like it's always pasta on Friday. So it depends on if we like go by or if we, if we make it at.

[Host 1]

Home. Is there anything like about you that's just lazy? Couch.

[Jackie McEwen]

Potato. Yeah, for sure. Like, I feel like when I get into like, like post running that like half marathon. A couple of weeks ago I took the week off which was like amazing. Did nothing. No running, no working.

[Host 1]

Out. That's not that lazy. You run a half.

[Host 2]

Marathon. Yeah. You did earn it, right? Versus other people usually don't earn.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. I don't know. And it's not always like it going through. Like obviously winter's coming. I'm not going to run as much. Like get a little easier treadmill. No, I never run on the.

[Host 1]

Treadmill. Oh.

[Jackie McEwen]

Really? I hate it. I find it to be like quite depressing or. No, I like people like it. I. I just find it to be depressing. Like if I, if I'm going to do something like. Like I'd rather do it.

[Host 2]

Outside.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sure. I don't.

[Host 1]

Know. So what do you do? What do you do when it's brick in the 6? Curling, ice skating, speed skating, bob.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sledding, lift, lift a few weights. I, I go skating. Like I, I'll go skating occasionally snowboarding, but like, you know, I like to lift a weight or.

[Host 1]

Two. Throw.

[Jackie McEwen]

Plates. Yeah, throw plates for.

[Host 1]

Sure. Okay. Have you ever your pants while.

[Jackie McEwen]

Running? No, but I know this is like a.

[Host 2]

Thing.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Like luckily where we run on the waterfront, there's quite a few like Porta.

[Host 2]

Potties. Lying, I was going to say. Or just the water's right there.

[Jackie McEwen]

Apparently. Yeah. Just run into water. Yeah. No, no, luckily that's never happened to me. Like I, I see videos. I see. No, it's definitely. There's like this one of the. There's this one of this chicken. It's like her finishing like a. I think it's like an ultra marathon and she. Or like a triathlon or something and it's like her coming through the finish line. It's just coming down the way and like the guy's like filming because it's like the finish and she's like, don't film me right now. It's like this pretty like gnarly.

[Host 2]

Video. Shake my.

[Jackie McEwen]

Pants. But it's like. But it's perfectly. Yeah, but I also kind of get it. I'm like, if you're running for hours and like you gotta go, what are you gonna do? Your.

[Host 2]

Body'S. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Literally sport though. Can you guarantee that it features poop wicking.

[Jackie McEwen]

Properties? Not yet, but we'll work on it. I'll see what I can do.

[Host 2]

In the lab right.

[Jackie McEwen]

Now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're working on.

[Host 2]

It. Trying to solve the ground.

[Host 1]

Problem. What, what shoes you run.

[Jackie McEwen]

In? I run in a few different shoes. I really like the Mizuno. Like I'm really. Shout out Mizuno. I'm trying to get a.

[Host 2]

Collab. The Wave.

[Host 1]

Runner. What are.

[Host 2]

You. What.

[Jackie McEwen]

You. Which right now? The Neo. The Neo Vista. I really like them. Like I actually, to be honest, I wasn't familiar with the running shoes until. Until we started the brand and I was trying to think about what shoe to style with because it's.

[Host 2]

Hard.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. So many brands are already associated with like a certain Brand of shoe. And I was like, I don't want to do the thing where we're using like a hundred different brands. And I hadn't seen anyone use Mizuno. I like that they're Japanese. I feel like they look different. You know, not a lot of great colorways, but if you find the right one, like, they're quite nice. So I started styling with them, and then I was like, I feel like I need to run in them to make sure that these are good. Oh, sure. Yeah. And then they're kind of like my daily runner now. Like, I actually really love them. Yeah, they're.

[Host 1]

Amazing. Are they optimal running shoe.

[Jackie McEwen]

Option? Yeah, yeah. And they're building out that the. Their, like, assortment as well. Like, they've got some pretty amazing. Like, that their super shoe has this kind of crazy. Like, the heel is cut out of it. So those ones, like, not so stable for me. Like, I'm not. We use them to style with, like. And they just have no back. So everything. Every time a model gets in them, they're like, whoa, I don't know how to stand in.

[Host 2]

This. More insurance on.

[Jackie McEwen]

Set. Yeah. I'm sure they're fast, but I'm like, I'm.

[Host 2]

Not. There's no heel on the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Shoe. Like, it's basically gone. You'll see if you look on.

[Host 1]

The website, they can only propel you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Forward. Yeah. Which is good because you want.

[Host 1]

To say, don't look.

[Jackie McEwen]

Back. Literally, don't look back. You want to be forward. Right. So it's kind of helpful. And then it's got a carbon plate. And I'm sure they're a really fast shoe, but, like, they feel so unstable that I have not given those a go yet. But they're like daily trainers. Great. And then I ran the half in the Adidas, the Adios Pros, which are quick. They're. They're a good.

[Host 1]

Shoe. That's the one for Gigantic Fucking.

[Jackie McEwen]

Soul. No, no, no. That's their, like, 100 miler or something. They have, like, a crazy one that they out with.

[Host 1]

The. That's like the.

[Host 2]

Current. Oh, dude. There's literally no.

[Jackie McEwen]

Heel. There's no.

[Host 2]

Heel. That's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Crazy. I know. They.

[Host 2]

Look. They look fast as hell.

[Jackie McEwen]

Dude. Yeah, exactly. I like them from a styling.

[Host 1]

Perspective. Dual Pro. But is that. Is that the trend is like the massive foam sole? Whether it's a Hoka Adidas, but.

[Jackie McEwen]

I think it's for those, like, ultra, like the super long runs. I think it offers more stability and support for people, but, like, not really my not my jam.

[Host 2]

No. Damn, this will turn you pigeon.

[Jackie McEwen]

Toad.

[Host 2]

Like. This is.

[Jackie McEwen]

Crazy. It's.

[Host 2]

Crazy. It looks cool.

[Jackie McEwen]

As. It looks cool. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Exactly. Wait, so you want a collaboration with.

[Jackie McEwen]

Mizuno? I would love it.

[Host 1]

Because. Have you guys done a cloud.

[Jackie McEwen]

Before? We have one coming out OO in the.

[Host 1]

Spring. Breaking.

[Jackie McEwen]

New. Yeah, yeah, we have. We do have. It is.

[Host 2]

Footwear. Oh.

[Jackie McEwen]

Wow. But it's not.

[Host 1]

Running.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Jackie McEwen]

Lifestyle. It's.

[Host 1]

Lifestyle.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Still in the active space.

[Host 1]

Though. Have you had to turn down a lot of collab requests? Because I feel like you do have a lot of heat going with the brand right now. You must have gotten like a lot.

[Jackie McEwen]

Of. We've got a few. Yeah. And the ones that are now. Well, someones that I think are cool as a brand, but I don't think it's an appropriate.

[Host 2]

Partnership. Showing.

[Jackie McEwen]

Restraint.

[Host 1]

Yes. Sorry.

[Jackie McEwen]

Supreme. Could you imagine? No, that'd.

[Host 2]

Be. Yes, I can. It would be awesome. I'd be first in.

[Jackie McEwen]

Line. All right, all right, we'll.

[Host 1]

See. I mean, there is this. There is the streetwear OG to like, streetwear 2.0, whatever the fuck you want to call it. Into active sports pipeline, which running. Golf. Not really active. So.

[Jackie McEwen]

Cycling.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Cycling Hunter Tennis, for sure. Like, yeah, there's that, like, there's got to be guys in from that world that are getting into Whitsboat.

[Jackie McEwen]

Now. I. Yeah, for sure. I think that there is, but I think. I think for us there's. There's like. Put it this way, there's like a few specific ones I'd love to.

[Host 1]

Get. Yeah. First collaboration.

[Jackie McEwen]

Wise. Yes. Before kind of like branching out into, like, other worlds. What's your dream collab for the.

[Host 1]

Brand? Ovo.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Yeah, let's get.

[Host 1]

That. Ovo Literary.

[Jackie McEwen]

Spovio. Oh, wow. There you.

[Host 2]

Go. It's right.

[Jackie McEwen]

There. Now we're going. Now we're.

[Host 2]

Cooking. No one thought of that. I can't imagine.

[Jackie McEwen]

Why. Yeah, I can't imagine. It was so obvious. I don't know. No, I don't know. Like, I. I think for, like, I would love to get like an eyewear collab. Maybe like a Varnay situation. We style with a lot of vintage Varnay, so a lot of the crazy classes we have were like 90s Vernon and I feel like if you. Feels like more elevated than the Oakley situation, the French kind of heritage of. It feels cool. And Mizuno for. For a running shoe. But I, you know, like, those are the two that I have, like, on my radar based on, like, you know, where we're kind of positioning ourselves.

[Host 1]

And. But I think there's many in touch with Mizuno.

[Host 2]

People. No, we definitely. Someone was like, we.

[Jackie McEwen]

Can. You know what's really funny? Our parents showroom was right across the street from theirs. And also, like, even, like, the Haven guys, like, Arthur was like, oh, we can, like, connect you guys. And I'm like, I know, but I feel like I wanted to make sure we felt. Felt like the brand was at the right point to, like, approach.

[Host 2]

Them. You don't want to blow.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. I don't want to blow it. And I feel like they are quite particular. Like, I feel like, you know, like, we have to impress them. They're very, like, culture based around.

[Host 1]

Respect.

[Jackie McEwen]

Japanese. I don't know. There feels like there's this, like, wall there.

[Host 1]

Yeah. That's being.

[Jackie McEwen]

Japanese. And. And I think it's because they also don't do a lot of collabs, which is why I.

[Host 2]

Like. Yeah, honestly, I feel like it.

[Jackie McEwen]

Feels cool that they're not. You know, we've had some other running shoe brands that collab with quite a few people reach out, and we're just kind of like. Doesn't feel like it really. Yeah, it doesn't, like, make sense for us because it's like, if not.

[Host 1]

Yet or not, like, not at this point or like.

[Jackie McEwen]

Just. No, definitely not at this point. But also, like, brand alignment feels off, you know, so. And I feel like that's also.

[Host 1]

Where. Sorry.

[Jackie McEwen]

Puma. Could you.

[Host 1]

Imagine? I don't.

[Host 2]

Know. I mean, sure. I don't know. I mean, I'm not even like, what's wrong with.

[Jackie McEwen]

Puma? But I don't even know what's. Yeah, you actually, like. I feel like they have a mono runner. They're also kind of like a. Like, I don't know, under the radar in the running space. So it.

[Host 1]

Actually. That actually could be kind of running sneakers. I feel like they must F1.

[Jackie McEwen]

Driving. No, actually they do at this run we did on Saturday, by the way. Thank you. This girl was chatting with me that she used to work in, like, footwear design for Puma Running, and she, like, moved here to do something else, but she was like, in Boston doing. And she was wearing them, and I was like, okay, okay. It's a real.

[Host 1]

Thing.

[Jackie McEwen]

Potential.

[Host 1]

Yeah. So what do you think of this? I don't know if it's real or not, but kind of like vintage performance wear, like, mini.

[Jackie McEwen]

Fad. I think it's cool from a, like, a style perspective. Like, I. There's a guy in Toronto that we love named Joe who has a Instagram called Sportsman's Paradise. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but he always posts these amazing like vintage inspo kind of like sports apparel stuff. And then I know there's a store here that's called like Rummage. What's it called? Like rumage sportswear or something. Have you seen.

[Host 1]

This?

[Jackie McEwen]

Sure. No, it's cool. Like there's like a few shops that are kind of doing this like specific like, or even like the designer like Dolce and Gabana sport from.

[Host 2]

Like. Oh.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sure. You know, this kind of weird.

[Host 2]

Weird. Do you have a Missoni sport? There's like a, you know, there was like a.

[Host 1]

Rlx. There's like every brand was doing Isimiyake had.

[Jackie McEwen]

One. Yes. What was it like? Hey, sporting good collab. Was it that or.

[Host 1]

Like. Yeah, but I think also just is like you said.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sport. Yeah, yeah. Which. That logo was sick actually. Yeah. I feel like there, there was that era where everyone did like a sport, but then there's also like people finding the era of like Nike where they were making like weird capris and things that felt very fashion adjacent too. Is that what you mean, like in terms of vintage sportswear or.

[Host 1]

Like. No, like. Well, I think women mainly are like. Because again, it's not people that are running ultra marathons. Like, yeah, I just want to get a sweat in, run like three miles, four miles. And it's kind of like they don't want to look like a run club victim or, or just like wearing the pastels and the tie dye socks. And so it's kind of. There's like a. I'm not, I don't remember her name, but Liana did like a pop up sale with her where she did like vintage tennis performance stuff like a rack or two in the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Park.

[Host 1]

Cool. So I think and New York Times just wrote something about this like mini, mini.

[Jackie McEwen]

Fat. I. I feel like it totally makes sense. Like, I feel like there is definitely like, especially like it's definitely like a Gen Z girl that's gonna wear that. That's probably actually their.

[Host 1]

Preferred.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right. Sporting.

[Host 1]

Look. But you do get inspiration from vintage performance from like a lot of.

[Jackie McEwen]

The. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, I feel like there's a lot of like design details that you know, are more noticeable on those garments because they're color blocking them. Like you might see like a seam, like a shoulder seam or something that's like, you know, like a contrast stitch or something. And we might like the shaping of that and just do it subtly in a tonal that even ever notice. But there is a lot of inspiration that comes from like the way those pieces are designed or like pocket placements and, and just like overall kind of silhouette. There's definitely like old Jill Sander and like Prada sport and things like that. For sure, like PR sport. Obviously there's a wealth.

[Host 2]

Of.

[Jackie McEwen]

Absolutely. Reference points from like that entire time.

[Host 1]

So. Well, speaking of fashion, got to ask you, we don't know the slang necessarily. What does a men's fashion victim look like in.

[Jackie McEwen]

Toronto? Oh, I mean, there's subcategories to.

[Host 2]

This. Let's go, let's get into.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. I mean, you've got the mans. You've got the Toronto mans who's still wearing like Air Force ones and you know, that whole thing. But I feel like there's also like the guy who's like still a bit left over on like the ALD hats and like, you know, doing like that kind of like very like full head to toe Museum of Peace and quiet sweater and like that kind of thing. And then you get the like kids now with like the white socks loafer and the balloon, the balloon.

[Host 1]

Pants. Right, that jean look, that jean leather.

[Host 2]

Jacket. Pulling out the.

[Host 1]

Sides.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Pull out the sides. Yeah, the, the curved.

[Host 1]

Pants.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. I mean, I think because Toronto's small, like you, you kind of don't see like a mass like trend in a certain way. Like you see these little pockets of, of, of, of all of it. But I think, yeah, that, that's, that's the. Probably the worst of it is like the men's, the.

[Host 1]

Man'S. Has Drake ever worn literary sport or do you not want him to curse the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Brand? I mean, I, I don't know if that would be something that he'd be put in at the this, at this stage in his game. I don't know.

[Host 1]

Really. He's like a.

[Host 2]

Work. He like posts his workout and he's a Nike.

[Host 1]

Athlete. That's true. But he makes.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sure. I was gonna say it might be conflicting because it's a Nike guy.

[Host 1]

But he makes sure the print is, you know.

[Jackie McEwen]

Throbbing. Yes, of course. You.

[Host 2]

Know. Well, he always oils up the fake.

[Jackie McEwen]

Abs. Yeah, of course. You know, we've got a sweatpant coming out next season, so maybe he wants, you know, a light, A light color. No.

[Host 1]

Gray. How's the print on those.

[Jackie McEwen]

Beds? Yeah, exactly. We gotta like, it's like a creamy white. That'll probably, that'll probably do the trick. You know, maybe we'll, we'll get Him a pair of those. Did.

[Host 1]

You. When did you style Drake or.

[Jackie McEwen]

What did you work, like, worked with Drew, so. I worked with Drew for, like, six months. It was around the era that, like, Nocta launched. So I worked on, like, the initial, like, Nocta campaign with Drew and then, like, some music videos. It was like the what's Next video and, like, stuff like that. So did a few things. Like, Fran and I, like, ended up organizing his closet quite a.

[Host 2]

Bit. How was.

[Jackie McEwen]

That? Honestly, really fun. Like, it's. Obviously, the house is insane. It's incredible. But, like, there's a whole floor. The upper floor is just, like, archival closet, so. Whoa. It's. Honestly. Honestly, it's.

[Host 1]

Crazy. What was the craziest garment you saw in there from, like, a fashion head.

[Jackie McEwen]

Perspective? I mean, like, there's tons of Tom Ford, obviously. Tom Ford, Gucci and all that kind of stuff. There was some, like, really, like, rare, like, junior jackets and things like that and stuff that, like, I don't even know if he's ever worn. He just, like, kind of collects it. I don't know if there was, like, a one off. Like, it was like, also the era of, like, all the, like, supreme, like, fur puffers. So there was like, a ton of those. Like, every color. I don't know if there was, like, it was all so crazy, like, Prada pink jacket and things like that. So, like, it was just kind of. Everything was wild to look at, but it was just like three racks deep. Like an entire, like, floor of a.

[Host 2]

House. How long does it take someone to organize.

[Jackie McEwen]

That? I mean, it was more some from, like, a perspective of, like, helping, like, pull out things that didn't need to be there anymore. Just, like, I don't know. There was some weird, like, action figure collections. Some.

[Host 1]

Dolls.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. Like, some.

[Host 2]

Interesting. He's a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Collector. He's a collector. He's a.

[Host 1]

Collector. Birkins were in.

[Jackie McEwen]

There. Oh, we didn't. Oh, we weren't in the Birkin room. Not everyone goes in the Birkin.

[Host 2]

Room. That's only for future wifeies, I think.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right? Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay.

[Host 2]

No. Is he a guy.

[Host 1]

That.

[Host 2]

Okay. He's so visible, you know, one of the biggest, if not the biggest, global pop superstar. And he is under a lot of scrutiny for. It doesn't even matter. The era of the fits. Would you say that Drake is, like, underrated? Not maybe as a style icon? I think that would be a bit like, what do you think of the. Can you say what you think of his personal. Personal style currently.

[Jackie McEwen]

Maybe? I. What? I will Say is I think Drew does a fantastic job styling him. So that's, that's, that's as far.

[Host 1]

As.

[Host 2]

Okay. That's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Totally. I think, I think Drew's got excellent taste, and I think he, you know, he does the, you know, like, what I think is appropriate for him to be wearing right.

[Host 2]

Now.

[Host 1]

Totally. But this. So, like, I didn't know that he was necessarily this much of a collector archivist, where he has, like, stuff that maybe you've never even seen him wear but just, like, has flown for. Well, I don't know what I. I don't know what his reasons are, but, like, do people not necessarily know that. That he, like, has such extensive, Such an extensive collection that he or his team has put.

[Jackie McEwen]

Together? Yeah. I don't know. Like, I'm not sure if that's something he ever really talks about, but. And it could be different now that this was a few years ago, but I think it, it was, like, super interesting. Well, I think he. There was something posted recently where I think he was in his basketball court with, like, racks and racks of things. What was.

[Host 2]

That? Oh, yeah, they put, like, his whole club closet in the, in his, in the court. Just kind of, like, to. It was almost like a money spread for a guy who has a lot of.

[Host 1]

Clothes. But could you tell that it was, like, Rare Junior and, like, Tom Ford Araguchi and stuff like.

[Jackie McEwen]

That? Like, I don't know if you could tell. I'm not sure you could see, though, like, somebody was, you know, somebody was for sure. But.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Yeah. What's the most Canadian thing about you, Jackie? Besides how you say.

[Jackie McEwen]

Pesta? Whatever the fuck you probably that I say sorry all the time story. I, I. Yeah, I'm definitely, like, probably a.

[Host 1]

Politeness.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Polite, Canadian. I don't.

[Host 2]

Know. Do you ever feel like you're too humble despite having, like, great personal style, an amazing reputation, this brand that's bubbling, like, do you ever feel like I need to flex a little bit.

[Jackie McEwen]

More? I don't know. Maybe I should. You're telling.

[Host 2]

Me. I don't know. I'm wondering if that.

[Jackie McEwen]

Ever. I need you to gas me up. I need people to, you know, to tell me that maybe that's what I need. I don't know. I think it's okay to be humble, though. Like, I think, I think also. I think maybe that's also, like, a competitive nature in myself where, like, you're never fully satisfied where you're at. So you're like, you can. This is terrible. No, you can be, like, happy where you're at, but you're like, I want to do other things and I want to do more. So I, I think maybe, I.

[Host 1]

Don'T know, it's okay to be kind of like along the same lines. You do you want literary sport or do you. Is a plan for esports like remain not under the radar, but like niche and kind of almost within its own guardrails versus like blowing up one day and being the next.

[Jackie McEwen]

Nike. I mean, I think, think it's interesting because again, like, I'm not really sure what like the intention from the founder's perspective is like for Fran and I. Like, I think there's something really magical about it. Living in this world where it is a bit more not niche but like where you are able to be a bit more special to people. I think that there's maybe a way to, to do. To scale in a way that brings us, you know, success without ruining the brand. I don't.

[Host 2]

Know. Yeah, a little bit of.

[Jackie McEwen]

Scratch. Yes. Like, I'm sure they would love to see it grow. Everybody would love to see it grow. That's the intention. But I also think for, for one of the founders, like, for him it was very much like a passion project. It wasn't like the poet. What's.

[Host 2]

That? The poet? Yeah, the sensitive.

[Jackie McEwen]

Soul.

[Host 2]

Sensitive. So money means nothing to.

[Jackie McEwen]

Me. Well, I think for him this was like a genuine outlet that was like something important to him. So I think like, at the end of the day, I think that that also reflects on the decisions we make make. They're not based on money. Like we are doing things based on things that we want to see show up in the space. And it isn't this like sales driven kind of perspective. So I think if it, if it grew to that point, amazing. But I don't necessarily think that that will change how we approach the brand. Like, I think we're going to keep, you know, kind of going at it the way we are and hopefully it grows.

[Host 2]

But.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Well, I don't know. What about just like kind of putting a dent or having an effect on like the industry writ large where like things do shift a little bit? I mean, mean that. Is that a goal or is that just kind of like a byproduct of doing your own thing and, and building in the lane that you, the white space that you guys saw and decide to like.

[Jackie McEwen]

Fill? I think it's, I think it's a byproduct, to be honest. I don't think it's the goal. I think for us, again, like being involved also in like many different projects. This is something that like is also kind of like it's, it's nice to see it successful. But I think that like you know, we're not like it has to be this. It has to be that. I think maybe that also maybe that freedom of kind of like letting go a little bit of it is what's kind of helpful. Maybe there's a nonchalance there that I guess we care a lot but we also aren't trying so hard to move it so quickly. And like I think for us it's just like if it, if it builds naturally.

[Host 2]

Great. That's what makes it cool. Right? Because it's not. It's just natural and it's. And it's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Nonchalant. It's.

[Host 1]

Nonchalant. Yeah. Ain't shalant. What are, what are the other projects and businesses and companies that you and you and friend work on or you just want to shout out real.

[Jackie McEwen]

Quick? I can talk about obviously F. Miller, like that's a big one always like in Toronto. I work with roots. Roots.

[Host 2]

Canada. Yes, that's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right. Class, classic.

[Host 1]

Roots. Anything about.

[Jackie McEwen]

You? Yeah, I think I should have said that. Yeah. Shout out Micah, my, my good friend Micah who's image director there. So I work with her quite a bit and like I was working with other brands that I don't work with as much anymore. Just time wise like obviously literary sports priority but like still doing some one off styling and consulting with some, some other brands like that. I don't know if I should talk about some of those just yet but like. Yeah, yeah, we, we have a few clients that we work on and just do some consulting work.

[Host 2]

For. For someone who's such like an image maker and who has like we saying sick personal style to gas you up again. Is there any part of you that's like I would love to do like the Jackie brand or is.

[Jackie McEwen]

That.

[Host 2]

Yeah. That that's a goal or an ambition that's separate from lit spo and.

[Jackie McEwen]

Totally. And I, I do think so much of me is in this brand which feels like I feel super connected.

[Host 2]

To. I think we see that too. Which is a compliment. Compliment.

[Jackie McEwen]

Because. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I think that that's why I do feel so connected to this project because I was given a lot of freedom which I think is rare. It's rare like to also be someone who's a stylist or creative director and come into a space where nothing existed. So you can kind of shape something from the Garment to the outcome and the visual. It's kind of the trick. Yeah, it is.

[Host 1]

Honestly. If it makes money, great. If it doesn't match. But yeah, just keep doing whatever you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Want. Well, because. Yeah, I just, I. I'm also, like, appreciative because I know how rare it is. I know a lot of stylists, I know a lot of creatures, creative directors. And there's always this struggle of also working with, like, bigger corporate brands where, like, even if you have a great idea, it gets diluted, it gets changed by the time the finished product comes out. It's not what you envision. So to be able to do something where I can have, like, an idea and have it come out the way I want it to come out and present it feels like a true expression of, like, my taste level fingerprints are all over this. Exactly. So I do feel like that hopefully could lead into something that is, like, my own or, you know, something with Fran as well. Like in things that we do together, like to spend a little more time to build out something for ourselves. Ourselves. But right now, like, this feels also just like a fantastic, like, experience. Also, like, navigate this industry and learn a lot of things as.

[Host 1]

Well. Jackie and.

[Jackie McEwen]

Francho. Yeah, that's next. You'll be on our.

[Host 1]

Podcast. Oh, hell.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Front row.

[Host 1]

Seats. Well, we, you know where you are. It sounds like you're just in a great place professionally, personally, etc. But as a stylist, in your early days, did you have to cut your teeth working gigs and working with brands that you hated?

[Jackie McEwen]

Did.

[Host 1]

Yeah. You're just like, I just. I just gotta bite the bullet. I.

[Host 2]

Just. Yeah. Pay the cost to be the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Boss. I will say, like, I had a very, like, lucky start into this industry. Probably different from a lot of people's situations. I at the time was working at a bar in Toronto called the Beaconsfield, which was, like, kind of a hub. A lot of creatives. Actually. Drake was. It was. Was a patron for a while. And like, a lot of.

[Host 1]

People. Was he drinking his passion fruit spritz or whatever.

[Jackie McEwen]

The. No, it was like a lot of, like, it was a lot of.

[Host 1]

Jameson. Oh.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. It wasn't like the crazy, like, whatever, that wine glass. No. But it was like a lot.

[Host 1]

Of, like, an ombre of, like, every.

[Jackie McEwen]

Pastel. I know. Like, why is it like that? Give it a stir. What's happening in that.

[Host 2]

Class? It looks delicious. I.

[Jackie McEwen]

Can'T. Yeah. No, and it was just like, you know, it was a lot of people in the creative industry, people that worked in Fashion at the time and like, I was kind of like dabbling. I had friends that worked in film, so I had done a few projects and someone who had, you know, just started working at Canada Goose at the time as a creative director, liked, my personal style was like, we're to. Trying. Trying to, like, you know, change the perspective, bring it to be a little bit more, like, utilitarian. And like, I think I was wearing more vintage at the time. A lot of like, vintage workwear, military and things like that. And she was just kind of like, I really like your style. Maybe we can bring you into style some Canada Goose. And that was kind of like.

[Host 2]

My first client, just based on the.

[Host 1]

Fits.

[Jackie McEwen]

Really. Yeah. And like, she knew I. Like, she knew me and I was interested in, you know, working in that industry.

[Host 2]

So. Damn. The ultimate co sign. You look so sick. Can I hire.

[Jackie McEwen]

You? It was, it was, it was honestly like, I think about the. That it's like, it's not everyone's kind of path. And it was. Yeah, it was super lucky. It was amazing. I did that like, like, I still, once in a while will work with Canada Goose. Not as much recently, but like in the last, like, 10 years of styling, like off and on quite, quite frequently. So that was like a first kind of like, foray. I learned I met a lot of people in the industry that way, so that was kind of it. And, you know, it wasn't always as great as that. There's always like the, the brands and the shitty projects where, you know.

[Host 2]

You'Re like, I'm not going to promote this.

[Jackie McEwen]

On. I'm not going to tell.

[Host 2]

You. You'll never know that.

[Jackie McEwen]

I. You'll never know I did this. And there's quite a few of those and there will always be a few of those in the.

[Host 2]

Mix. That's for everyone.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right? That's for everyone. And that's like, you know, the freelance life pays the.

[Host 1]

Bills. But what was like the worst like all this I'm going back to school moment from early styling.

[Jackie McEwen]

Days, to be honest. Like, mostly in commercial jobs, like working on like, massive commercial jobs where there's like 30 talent and you're like dressing background.

[Host 1]

People. What happened to deal with like celebrity divas? Is it like having your, your. Your image or your vision, like, dilute.

[Jackie McEwen]

Diluted? It's a bit of both. Like, I think while there's a lot of brands and especially in Canada, like, there's a little less trust there, there's. It's more, you know, like, it's more set in its Ways in terms of these, like, more corporate companies where you can't really do a lot, you can't really impact them maybe in the way you want to impact them. And I think, yeah, seeing your work come out after you spent a lot of hours like building looks or building ideas, you're like, this was.

[Host 2]

Terrible. I did.

[Jackie McEwen]

That. Please don't tag me in.

[Host 2]

This. I don't know, credit necessary.

[Jackie McEwen]

Ob. Obviously it happens, but when you don't have the control over the outcome, like you kind of, you know, sometimes there are the, like the give up moments where you're like, I'm never doing this again. Never do this again. But I think that's also why I started to want to work more in creative direction and consulting and working on the other side of things so I can maybe influence how the images are used because I'm like, please stop doing.

[Host 1]

This. But what, what's the deal with this Toronto scene these days? Because there was a moment where Toronto felt very much more influential kind of in like the street wear meets luxury days of like. Yeah, halcyon days. Like.

[Jackie McEwen]

2015.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Nomad. Yeah, exactly. Like Suzy Toronto was like the seemingly one of the best.

[Jackie McEwen]

Chapters. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Some sneaker store that was.

[Host 1]

Huge. And obviously Drake was like, like.

[Jackie McEwen]

Dead stock or no livestock. Sorry.

[Host 2]

Live. No, I can't remember. I don't think it's those. But.

[Host 1]

Anyway. And like, Drake was, you know, the biggest force, cultural force in the world back then. But like, what's going on there.

[Jackie McEwen]

Now? Well, I feel like that was a particular time because I feel like it was way more street wear, like, in terms of like fashion and menswear was way more streetwears and Nomad was incredible. When the old ownership was there, it changed and things kind of.

[Host 1]

Changed. Sold.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right?

[Host 1]

Yeah. Like a billion.

[Jackie McEwen]

Dollars. I don't.

[Host 2]

Know. Billion, billion.

[Host 1]

Loonies. I think of end clothing, you probably.

[Host 2]

Probably. I think you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Are. No, Nomad was like a small, like retailer, but they always had the best shit. Like, it was like the place when I was early styling. They were always super nice about letting me pull from there. It was like kind of had the best assortment of brands at the time and then they moved locations and I think I don't quite know what happened. But yeah, the ownership change, the buying wasn't as good, the store wasn't as good. But I also feel like, yeah, it was of a time when I think streetwear was really like killing it. And there was like Haven and all these stores that were really.

[Host 1]

Show.

[Jackie McEwen]

Haven. Shadow. Haven. Yeah, Haven's amazing. And I feel like they're still crushing it. But like, I feel like specifically in Toronto there was.

[Host 1]

More. Well, the center of the Canadian universe is shifted over to the west.

[Jackie McEwen]

Coast. Yeah. Well, neighbor, obviously. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Crushing. Incredible Haven.

[Jackie McEwen]

Stussy. Yep.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

Etc. It's true. I don't know. I think it's. I think it's also because people leave Toronto. That's also the thing too. I think that there is this like, to go where? Well, like here, here or Europe, like a lot.

[Host 1]

Of. Not.

[Jackie McEwen]

Anymore. Not.

[Host 2]

Anymore. Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right. I mean, no, but still, even.

[Host 1]

Still, like maybe us closing the borders will be good for you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Guys.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Keep all the town in.

[Jackie McEwen]

House. I don't know. Like, I just, I feel like it's. It's something like it's self sabotaging city or something. I don't know. Like, I think there was a lot of great things still happening there and a lot of young designers that are like coming up again that are in more of this like current like menswear movement. But I feel like it's maybe almost like it was like a regroup from what you were saying from that time when it was a little bit louder. And now these kind of more like tailored brands are coming out. Like, I mean like Henry's Keith is in.

[Host 2]

Toronto. Shout out the big.

[Jackie McEwen]

Homie. He lives a couple of streets over from us. And yeah, like, I think that there is something happening. It's just maybe not as globally.

[Host 1]

Or like cohesive just.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yet. It's not cohesive Toronto scene.

[Host 1]

Because my former colleague slash daughter Cara Sanchez, who now works in PG Lang, she's from Toronto and she always was saying that like Toronto, she called. They called Screw face city where everyone just like, like, yeah, everyone sucks their teeth at like oh, haters. Yeah, man's Ain't that.

[Jackie McEwen]

Fire. Yes. No, but that's what I'm saying to you. Like, nobody like promotes their own and nobody supports their.

[Host 1]

Own. What the I names or dance crabs in a.

[Jackie McEwen]

B. No, it's like passive aggressive niceness or something. I don't know what it is, but like I do think that there is a lot of talent and there is a lot of brands that are starting to like get a little bit more global recognition and like there are some really great people here. But I just, I feel like, yeah, like it's not. It's maybe not as supportive or maybe it's the resources aren't.

[Host 1]

There. But also like regionality isn't necessarily a thing right now for brands where like literary sport. I don't think literary, sporting, like, oh.

[Jackie McEwen]

Toronto. No. And that was intentional.

[Host 1]

Too. Okay. Yeah, but kind of. But that's true of a lot of brands.

[Host 2]

Though.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And. But it's funny. Like, like. Well, so that's the thing. When you're like the brand itself, do you think it needs to be like anchored geographically to a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Place? No, I think when you do that also you kind of limit it. Yeah, you limit it. And I think that we thought about a lot of those things when we were launching because we, we kind of knew the climate in Toronto. I knew what it was like for other brands. And I think we had the opportunity to be kind of anonymous. Anonymous in a certain way. But also like we intentionally launched in New York because we knew that there was a certain, like women's fashion crowd that was very big space here that would, you know, it would resonate really well with. So we made that choice to, to launch in New York, which already shaped people's opinions to be like, oh.

[Host 2]

They'Re was a New York brand until I learned.

[Jackie McEwen]

More. Honestly, it does globally because then it's cooler. Well, it's. I hate to say it, but it was kind of the intention of knowing like, I guess working in the industry for a long time and seeing what happens to brands and the struggle of trying to get yourself like respected globally, it kind of helps when you're from a bigger city like New York or Paris or London. So I think for us that made sense to, to that route and hopefully fool people in that.

[Host 2]

Way. Not a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Disingenuous. No, not at.

[Host 1]

All. Not at.

[Jackie McEwen]

All. And we talk about being from Toronto all the time, but I think it, it was, it's, it's just the optics of everything and it helps.

[Host 2]

Us. Like. How'd you say.

[Host 1]

Pasta? Where the are you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Actually. Pasta Fr. Bagel. Bagel's my.

[Host 1]

Dog.

[Jackie McEwen]

What? Bagel's my.

[Host 2]

Dog. The dog's name is.

[Jackie McEwen]

Bagel? Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. What's your dog's name? You have a cute.

[Host 2]

Dog. Georgie. Thank you. Her name is.

[Host 1]

Georgie. But you say bagel normally like a normal.

[Jackie McEwen]

Person.

[Host 1]

Bagel. Oh, a crazy.

[Host 2]

What? Oh, I was try. Yeah, sounds.

[Jackie McEwen]

Normal.

[Host 2]

Bagel. Bagel. Wait a.

[Host 1]

Second. I take it.

[Jackie McEwen]

Back. It's something about the middle vowel that always kills us. That's how people know P. Friday. Pasta.

[Host 2]

Friday. Pasta Friday. Pasta.

[Jackie McEwen]

Friday. I don't even.

[Host 1]

Know. Like a.

[Host 2]

Minnesotan. Yeah, it is a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Little. Yeah, it is a little. Yeah. Now I'm going to be so self conscious of.

[Host 1]

That. You guys are pretty far.

[Jackie McEwen]

West. We're like an hour from here by plane. Like, we're not that.

[Host 2]

Far. Like. Yeah, we just, like, walk over to Buffalo.

[Jackie McEwen]

Dude. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Literally.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Yeah. Jackie, what do you like to spend your money.

[Jackie McEwen]

On?

[Host 1]

Shoes. Really?

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Yeah. Shoes are the. The.

[Host 1]

Killer. Were these the most recent.

[Jackie McEwen]

Pickup? Yeah, because it was like, I actually, I picked these up on the run on Saturday. I stopped at WSA on the run, picked up the loafers and ran back to Half.

[Host 2]

Grocery.

[Jackie McEwen]

William.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Nice. And you were running with the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Box. Oh, I just took the dust.

[Host 2]

Bag. Okay. Like a, Like a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Football. Yeah, yeah. Because I was like, I was messaging with him, but he was like, oh, I gotta. I gotta leave by noon. I was like, surely we'll be down the run by, like, 11:30, and I can just, like, pop down there to grab.

[Host 1]

Them. And then you're like, we gotta talk, Picasso. Not I.

[Jackie McEwen]

Pay. No, but we were, like, in front of, like, the Noguchi Cube and they were talking about it, and I. I had to, like, turn to, like, one of the people on the team and be like, I'm just gonna run to wsa. I'll be back. Grabbed a pair of loafers. So those were the most recent pickup?

[Host 1]

Yes. Are they good? I, I. My pairs. Okay.

[Jackie McEwen]

Good. You haven't worn them yet? No, I mean, I got plantar.

[Host 1]

Fashion, like, the day after I got.

[Jackie McEwen]

Them. Oh, yeah. You might need, like, a little insole or something for those bad.

[Host 2]

Boys. Working on.

[Jackie McEwen]

It. They're flat, but they're really comfortable. Really soft.

[Host 2]

Leather. You're addicted to footwear. That's your. I mean, join the club.

[Host 1]

Right? More shoes, more hats, more shoes.

[Jackie McEwen]

Wow. I have a lot of pairs of.

[Host 2]

Shoes. Probably the same for us, I.

[Jackie McEwen]

Would say, because I feel like I, I like, I buy new clothing, but I prefer vintage. And I feel like when I'm really spending money on something, it's usually.

[Host 1]

Footwear. Are we on the. We talked about vintage Gap A little bit. Are you deep in Vinti.

[Jackie McEwen]

Armani? I, like, I have a few. Like, I have, like, I have this. I have never even worn it, but I bought this like, crazy pink dress shirt that's like, Got this little, like, beige, like the little beige embroidered logo. It's, like, amazing. Yeah. Like, the shirting, couple sweaters. I got it actually Archive in Paris. I got the archivist. Archivist, Yeah. I got, like, a vintage leather Armani bomber there in the spring, so it's only now been, like, cold enough to. To be wearing it. So I've been wearing it more recently, but, like, it's like, the perfect crop. Little Armani.

[Host 1]

Bomber.

[Jackie McEwen]

Delicious. But, like, not intentionally. Like, I just feel like whenever I'm like, vintage shopping, that's the thing that I end up like the, the Chad Senzel. That jacket that I posted was Armani. I didn't buy though. It was too big in the.

[Host 1]

Shoulders. Stolen.

[Jackie McEwen]

Valor. But I got a hat from him. I, I got like a, A vintage. Of course. I got like a polo. Like a plaid. It's actually the same black watch plaid, but it's like a polo cap. That was cool. Grab.

[Host 2]

That.

[Host 1]

Nice. Yeah, we're not a run. What's the dumbest purchase you've made.

[Jackie McEwen]

Recently? Dumbest purchase. They probably shoes also. They were like.

[Host 2]

That. That didn't fit.

[Jackie McEwen]

Or. No, they fit. They fit. They're just expensive. Ye, Yeah, I, I actually, I wouldn't say they're dumb. I've gotten a good wear out of them. But like, I got product. Like little mules, like the Shuffle Mules, which are like a bit of a silly shoe for the price point.

[Host 1]

But we love a silly, silly.

[Host 2]

Shoe. Come.

[Jackie McEwen]

On. Yeah, I guess. I, I. Then I guess not so.

[Host 1]

Terrible. And when you buy them, it's. You got to think of it like half off. Because they're. You're buying them for Fran as.

[Jackie McEwen]

Well. Exactly, exactly. Well, I do. I have to get their approval. I'm like, do we like these? We.

[Host 2]

Like. I mean, there's also the hive mind of the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Household. I mean, I was just in like la Garcon yesterday and like, I almost bought a pair of shoes. Might go back for them. So that might be. That might.

[Host 1]

Be. Oh, the shoe talk has got you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Drooling. I know. It might be another stupid purchase before I go.

[Host 2]

Home. So when you're in New York and you're working, you're also just.

[Jackie McEwen]

Shop. Well, it's also part of work.

[Host 2]

Too. Oh, right. For sure. Totally. Totally justifying that.

[Host 1]

Work. You guys make hard bottoms, right? You need reference pieces for your hard.

[Jackie McEwen]

Bottoms. Exactly, exactly. Thank you for justifying.

[Host 2]

It. That's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Right. I almost.

[Host 2]

Forgot. It's my job to buy my.

[Host 1]

Job. Well, just in case we do a product collab later.

[Jackie McEwen]

On. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, but we do. We have a little sandal coming.

[Host 1]

Out for the spring, so like a little recovery thing. Recovery.

[Host 2]

Sandal. Sort of a flip.

[Jackie McEwen]

Flop.

[Host 2]

No. Were you on the flip flop wave? Did you work.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay?

[Host 1]

Yeah. Oh, you were, you.

[Jackie McEwen]

Were. But I, I just want to point out I've been rocking oofos for a few years now, so I've not new to.

[Host 2]

This. You are.

[Jackie McEwen]

Tr. I'm not new to.

[Host 1]

This. Are you not wearing your little anklet.

[Jackie McEwen]

Chain? Am I. Am I wearing.

[Host 1]

An. Aren't.

[Jackie McEwen]

You? Yeah, but not. Not in the. The winter.

[Host 1]

Months.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. It's a summer.

[Host 1]

Anklet.

[Host 2]

Okay. We don't do anklet over socks. It's not. You don't do it over a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sock. I' opposed to.

[Host 2]

It.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. It could be.

[Host 2]

Cute.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. I like what you're. I.

[Host 2]

Like. That's a free.

[Host 1]

One. It's like you said, high, low. It's like warm.

[Host 2]

Cold. You know what the next, by the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Way. Warm, cold, warm, cold. I like this. Okay. These are good.

[Host 1]

Ideas. Do a summer move in the winter and vice.

[Jackie McEwen]

Versa. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Ju position. Yeah. Wear that.

[Jackie McEwen]

Hat. Here we.

[Host 1]

Go. Yeah.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sweatshirt. Spring, summer 26, here we.

[Host 2]

Come. With a bikini and then a. I like.

[Jackie McEwen]

That. I feel like that's a vibe. I feel like that's already a vibe though. I feel like people do that. Like full fur hats with.

[Host 2]

Bikinis. Yeah, definitely. Like Pam Anderson in the.

[Host 1]

90S. LA.

[Jackie McEwen]

Thought. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's out there already. Fur boots and a bikini, you.

[Host 1]

Know. All right, Jack, we want to thank you. One, for just being who you are and two, for coming on to the only podcast matters. Before we get you out of here, do you have any constructive criticism you'd like to give.

[Jackie McEwen]

Us? Oo floor is yours? I mean, no, I think just be yourselves, guys. You know, you're kill. You're crushing it out there. Just keep on.

[Host 1]

Doing. Should.

[Jackie McEwen]

We. Should we wear more.

[Host 2]

Literary? Okay, yeah.

[Host 1]

Sure. Okay, here's the question as non runners. Yeah, what's. Okay, we get the. We get the ls, right? Yeah, we're ready to.

[Jackie McEwen]

Go. You're.

[Host 1]

Ready. We got the shorts, tops, etc. What do we.

[Jackie McEwen]

Do? Like how. How do you.

[Host 1]

Run? Yeah, like, what's.

[Jackie McEwen]

Next? What's next? Like go, just.

[Host 1]

Go.

[Jackie McEwen]

Wow. Just go there. Just walk down, walk down the stairs. Just, you know, one foot in front of the other and get out there.

[Host 2]

Run. Make some. Make some really, like lifelong friends for.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sure. Yeah. You.

[Host 1]

Know. When did you fall in love with running though? Cuz like, personally I just don't like running because I get.

[Jackie McEwen]

Bored. Yeah, a lot of people feel that.

[Host 1]

Way. I get bored and it hurts. It hurts a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Lot. It still hurt. Like it hurts like I'm in pain.

[Host 2]

Most. Hurts so good getting.

[Jackie McEwen]

Old. It's. My knees aren't. You know, they're not holding up like they used.

[Host 1]

To. But running was always secondary. It was like training for Your.

[Jackie McEwen]

Other. I played rugby in university, so, like, it was just like a. Like an endurance thing. It was just kind of like, get out there.

[Host 1]

And. Were you, like, the winger.

[Jackie McEwen]

With. I was scrum half, which is basically the quarterback of football. It's like, there's the scrum.

[Host 1]

Happening.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. And then there's, like, what they call the backs, and then you're the person who, like, does the fun.

[Host 2]

Throw.

[Host 1]

Okay. Oh.

[Host 2]

Yeah. So you didn't. Were you getting your.

[Jackie McEwen]

Rocked? You do get your rocked because the whole thing is, like, when the ball comes out the back of the scrum, as soon as you put your hand on it, the other scrum can hit you, but they can't touch you until you touch the.

[Host 2]

Ball. You're, like.

[Host 1]

Fake. You're.

[Jackie McEwen]

Like. You kind of do. And then you try to get the. Like, you usually have to dive and throw it so that you don't get rocked by, like. Like. Yeah, it was. I. I broke a few.

[Host 2]

Bones. Oh.

[Jackie McEwen]

Okay. Some plates in the body.

[Host 1]

From. Is that why you gave up rugby and started doing.

[Jackie McEwen]

Safer? A thousand.

[Host 2]

Percent. I will die on this.

[Jackie McEwen]

Field. Well, actually, I have a plate in my ankle, and I played in my collar bones, so I was like. Well, and also, like, at a certain. Like, I feel like that sport has an expiration, like, you can't play that as an.

[Host 1]

Adult. Is going through TSA A for you Never goes off.

[Jackie McEwen]

Really? Never goes off? No, it's never gone off. I don't know. They must know. People have, like, metal in their body at this point. That must be, like, a normal.

[Host 1]

Thing. We're bionic. Wait, so running just became. Became your.

[Jackie McEwen]

Thing. Just became like a, like, maintenance, like, stamina, endurance kind of thing. But I. I really like it. Like, even though it's, like. Doesn't feel great. There's. You know, I lost my toenail recently, so it's not a fun thing. But I think that there is, like, this. I don't know, maybe when, like, you never shut your brain off, it's a good time to, like, not do.

[Host 2]

You get a lot of ideas, like.

[Jackie McEwen]

When you're like, you know, okay, I think about. And I feel like it's also just, like, visually a nice excuse when you're traveling to be outside or, like, see more of a.

[Host 1]

City. It's a good way to see a city, for.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sure. Yeah. Like, even, like, when I was in Portland, I was only there for a couple days. Had to be in, like, a convention center for most of it. So to go on, like, a long run along the water Like, I was seeing more of the city I actually saw. I don't know if you guys know Colin Meredith.

[Host 1]

Another. Of.

[Host 2]

Course. Yeah, Love.

[Jackie McEwen]

Colin. I saw him run by me on the run. He was also probably there for the same. Same purpose. But, like, I feel like it's like a. It's. It's a nice way to, like, say, what.

[Host 1]

Up? Or just.

[Jackie McEwen]

Like. I. I just. I saw the portal on the back as we ran by, and I.

[Host 2]

Was like, two ships passing in the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Night at the fabric fair. He's Canadian as well. Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's Canadian.

[Host 1]

Vancouver. I think he's from.

[Jackie McEwen]

Arky. Yeah. But I don't know him personally, but, like, I recognize great.

[Host 2]

Brand. Another kind of, like, mixing performance. Like, his version of Gorp is.

[Jackie McEwen]

Like.

[Host 2]

Exactly. It's like, less logos cleaner, but.

[Host 1]

Portal is, like, straight running.

[Host 2]

Oh. Oh, right.

[Host 1]

There. Well, but then they have, like, some, like, cool.

[Jackie McEwen]

Graphics. Yeah, I. I think they do cycling too, or something. I. I don't know. I could be wrong. Like, I think it's a little bit more hybridy. Movement. Movement. Yeah. But, yeah, like, I mean, like, I think.

[Host 2]

It.

[Jackie McEwen]

It's. You know, it's a good excuse to, like, get outside. Force yourself to.

[Host 1]

See. I get two in my head when I'm running. I. I start thinking too.

[Jackie McEwen]

Much. Oh, you think too.

[Host 1]

Much. And then you're like, no, no, Jesus, write an.

[Jackie McEwen]

Email. Oh.

[Host 1]

Right. Maybe that's my brain giving my body excuse. Like, stop.

[Jackie McEwen]

Running. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, oh, wait, I really gotta respond to this. I turn off my notifications when I'm running because I will get distracted if, like, texts come through or something like.

[Host 1]

That. I have to listen to incredibly angry and hard, like, abrasive music. Music, like, literally. I think I used to just look on Spotify like, brutal dubstep drops. It was awful.

[Jackie McEwen]

Brutal. I can't imagine that's, like, good for your, like, cadence. Like, I feel like, what's the.

[Host 1]

What's. No, because I had to, like. I had to, like, angrily just, like, get through the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Paint. Yeah, fair enough. I mean, it's not for everyone. Some people truly just hate it. And.

[Host 2]

That'S. But I like. I like the leisurely stroll. Yeah, but you can do.

[Jackie McEwen]

That. You can also do.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Walk. Yeah, I like the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Hako.

[Host 2]

Yeah. You know, just bang it down in 30.

[Jackie McEwen]

Minutes. Yeah, there you.

[Host 2]

Go. So you can then eat, whatever, get your.

[Host 1]

Steps. Get yourself housewives going on.

[Jackie McEwen]

The. Yeah, yeah, totally. I respect that too, you.

[Host 1]

Know.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. Do your.

[Host 1]

Thing. Jackie. Where can the kids Follow you. What would you like to.

[Jackie McEwen]

Plug? They can follow me. Jackie McEwen on Instagram. Garden group. Garden group that Fran and I do together. Hit us up if you need help with.

[Host 1]

Things. Who has more followers? You're Jack or you a.

[Jackie McEwen]

Friend?

[Host 1]

Fran. Oh.

[Jackie McEwen]

Oh. Fran's a personality. She's a.

[Host 1]

Personality. Her name is on the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Skincare. Her name is on the skincare. She posts nicer photos. I'll. I'll give it to her. She's. She's got a.

[Host 1]

Fantastic. You're my frequent poster of.

[Jackie McEwen]

Stories. Of Stories. Stories. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Fran. Fran is more of a curated poster, I would say. Takes a lot of nice.

[Host 1]

Pictures. How do you guys just real quick. I don't know why we didn't ask this. Like, how do you guys divide the.

[Jackie McEwen]

Work? The work in terms of L sport on ls? I mean, I handle more of the, like, design direction overall, kind of like, obviously the.

[Host 1]

Styling.

[Jackie McEwen]

Yeah. And a of lot of the kind of, like, brand, like, especially being a runner friend is obviously not as immersed in that community. So a lot of, you know, the ideas and things that are based around that are more my side of things. But Fran is having so much experience brand building. A lot of, like, you know, organizational things, but also a lot of the ideas. Like, I mean, like, we do in tandem, like, the creative direction for the campaign. So when we're, like, location scouting and things like that, I think, or casting, things like that, or a lot of, you know, what Frank and is better at. So I think she's definitely more stressed, you know, strengths. She's way more organized than I am as well, too. I can, like, throw out a hundred ideas, and she can make. Make them more concise and put it together in a package. Build. Build the deck. Yes. She's the deck builder for.

[Host 2]

Sure. And then follow Literary.

[Jackie McEwen]

Sport. Right, Obviously, of course. Follow Literary Sport. Duh.

[Host 1]

Duh. All right, Jackie, thank.

[Jackie McEwen]

You. Thank you guys so much. Thank you for having.

[Host 1]

Me. Only podcast matters. That was great, Chef. Take us out.