The Mary H.K. Choi Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

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Throwing Fits: The Mary H.K. Choi Interview

Published: March 30, 2026 | Host: Throwing Fits | Guest: Mary H.K. Choi

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Episode Overview

This episode reunites the Throwing Fits hosts with bestselling author Mary H.K. Choi, six years after her last visit, to discuss her new novel, Pool House (out June 9). The conversation is freewheeling and hilarious, covering everything from the existential state of book publishing, fit checks, Asian American identity, writing sex scenes, the culture of "performative reading," navigating success and failure, the mechanics of book marketing, transitioning from YA to adult fiction, and much more. Mary’s trademark candor, wit, and self-deprecation provide a ton of memorable moments, making this a must-listen (or must-read) on creativity, the grind of writing—and surviving—the modern zeitgeist.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Fit Check and Personal Style

• Mary's Layered Fit:
  • Outerwear: Nanamica Parka (Gore-Tex fishtail, “very warm”)
  • Vintage pieces: 80s Yoji suit pants, 90s silk shirt from her dad's import/export days (“covered in sodium alginate, waterproof”)
  • Socks: “Little cashmere ones from an old Asian female-owned business”
  • Shoes: Vintage Gucci loafers, women’s, “Tom Ford era, small horsebit”
  • Underwear: Uniqlo + “viral jelly bra from TikTok,” declared “the most autistic friendly bra I’ve ever met” [08:08]
  • Accessories: Burberry vintage scarf, Porter bag, classic L.L. Bean trapper hat (“buffalo check—making a resurgence”), vintage opal ring (“needs to be hydrated”), and “hilarious jewelry” (Junior Kieselstein cord)

“My dad was a garmento…It’s part of my personal mythos. Swag is in your blood.” – Mary, [06:14]

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2. Life Since Last Visit and Writing Process

• Six Years Later: Mary jokes about “unfurling from total irrelevancy,” discussing the long development cycle for Pool House, getting diagnosed with ADHD and autism during the process, and the humility of fiction writing.
• Writing as Neurodivergence:
  • Mary reveals much of her self-discovery was intertwined with her writing: “In this book I discovered I was ADHD. In this book I discovered I was autistic.” [17:43]
  • The crafting process is likened to a “humiliation ritual” and “kink.” [17:34]

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3. Publishing Industry & Book Marketing Real Talk

• Books in the Zeitgeist:

  • Mary bemoans the challenges of marketing literature in a “pivot to video world,” especially for Gen Z. [01:55]
  • Discusses being “the envoy from Bookland”—“remember books?”

• Marketing Plans, Virality, and BookTok:

  • Strategies discussed: Podcasts, NPR, classifieds in Substacks, and “spray and pray” tactics for BookTok.
  • “Having a little viral moment [on BookTok] can move tens of thousands of books—which is a lot for books.” [71:04]
  • Book blurb economy: “Blurbs are heavily edited. You can franken-anything…‘dot dot dot…great.’” [55:09]

• Korean Identity & Marketability:

  • Rejects pressure to “lean in” on Koreanness just because “Hankook is extra popping right now”: “That moment has kind of passed.” [20:32]
  • On soft power: “South Korea is the soft power capital of the world…They’ve invested so much money to make that happen,” citing Samsung/Hallyu, reality TV, and “brain Doritos.” [21:55]

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4. About the Book: Pool House

• Described as: A cross between BoJack Horseman and Parasite, set in LA and exploring themes of alienation, aging, fame, and the Asian American immigrant experience with biting humor.
• Main Characters: Moon (out-of-work actor with cult 90s notoriety, often cast in orientalist or sapphic tropes), Stevie (her “chaotic,” horny and “mother-starved” daughter), Adam and Mac (detailed with killer fashion descriptions).

“It’s not depressing. It’s LA…how depressing do you find LA?” – Mary, [23:38] “Every good thing also induces anxiety about how to hold on to this…and every bad thing, it’s like, lol, at least this will end.” – Mary, [25:27]

• Writing Sex Scenes:
  • More explicit and hilarious than in previous YA books (which were already "banned" in some places for sex content).
  • “I love writing sex scenes. Anatomically, it’s kind of hilarious. It’s like doing drugs together—let’s fast forward to a certain level of intimacy.” [39:24]
  • Explains sex scenes as a writer’s tool to deeply explore character dynamics. [41:29]

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5. Navigating Success, Failure, and Industry Cynicism

• Measuring Success:

  • Bestseller list as a marketing black box—“Mickey Mouse Bestseller,” “COVID asterisk,” “all humbling.”
  • “If I’m able to touch just one soul—no, I’m kidding, I don’t know, man.” [31:01]
  • On her immigrant parents: Recognition only comes after translations—“Has it been translated in your native mother tongue?” [32:44]

• Financial Realities:

  • Feast or famine, constant hustle for advances, option money was “dumb money,” and a relentless scarcity mindset: "Like a goddamn immigrant who has to go to the mattresses." [105:20]
  • “You plan, man. Your friend’s like, ‘Let’s have dinner,’ and you’re like, ‘I don’t pay to hang out.’” [105:20]

• Transitioning from YA to Adult:

  • Driven by wanting to explore “characters with fewer redeeming qualities” and write about “people in their 30s and 40s” rather than the limits/expectations of YA. [44:47]
  • “I wanted to write a book that I want to read or that I’ve never read before.” [43:48]

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6. On Community, Culture, and the Internet

• Book Clubs & Performative Reading:

  • Praises Dua Lipa for “knowing ball” and explains that most celebrity book clubs have scouts reading a year out. [61:06]
  • Discusses books as social signifiers—Dior’s book bags, Dakota Johnson/Calvin Klein campaign, and the “hot dudes reading bell hooks on the subway” phenomenon. [65:29]
  • “I’m not out here being the sincerity police in this day and age…With AI, the ship has sailed.” [66:21]

• Substack & Writer Survival:

  • Loves Substack as “defetishizing writing”—“sometimes you just want a snack, not big game hunting.” [103:02]
  • Strategically paywalls because “if you paywall, you get more subscribers.” [103:31]
  • Sees Substack for writers as “like Uber for actors—optically a little depressing,” but ultimately, “all communities are dope.” [102:47], [97:01]

• Favorite Substacks: Laura Riley’s Magasin, Emily Sundberg’s Feed Me, Old Stir by Sarah Vaughten, Yasi Salek’s Bandsplain, High Touch, etc. [101:30]

• Book Recommendations: Recommends Heart the Lover by Lily King and Rejection by Tony Tulitha Moody. [99:11]

• Goodreads vs. Letterboxd: On why Goodreads hasn’t popped: “Letterboxd prizes brevity; Goodreads is a little like that Yelp guy.” [98:19]

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7. Culture, Swag, and the State of NYC/LA

• On LA vs New York:
  • Describes LA as “purgatorial,” “rehab,” with parallel play, endless waiting, and houses that feel like “Airbnb or hotel lobbies.” [25:23], [88:52], [89:32]
  • “Whenever I’m in LA, I have the feeling I’ve left the gas on in my other life.” [24:25]
  • Misses “shitty, sub-$20 strip mall food” and the “information overload” of NYC. [91:28], [88:16]
• Restaurant & Fine Dining Disdain:
  • “I hate the blood sport of fine dining in this town…the rampant saucelessness.” [111:02]
  • “Salt of the earth people. Really talented…But the conversation you have to endure for your $900 sushi show omakase from some fucking dipshit private equity motherfucker next to you…” [111:15]

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8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

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Key Quotes - Speaker Attribution & Timestamps

• "I fuck with books. Heavy. I stay fucking with books. But like I do know that in a pivot to video world, books tough sell."
  – Mary H.K. Choi [01:47]

• “In this book I discovered I was ADHD. In this book I discovered I was autistic.”
  – Mary H.K. Choi [17:43]

• “Living with a writer is batshit crazy…We’re like sociopaths…sitting around making up and then trying to make you care—for money.”
  – Mary H.K. Choi [16:40]

• "I love writing sex scenes. Anatomically, it’s kind of hilarious. It’s this odd thing we do together. It’s like doing drugs together."
  – Mary H.K. Choi [39:24]

• "If I’m able to touch just one soul—no, I’m kidding…I don’t fucking know, man."
  – Mary H.K. Choi [31:01]

• “You have to plan from a scarcity mindset, like a goddamn immigrant who has to go to the mattresses.”
  – Mary H.K. Choi [105:20]

• “South Korea is the soft power capital of the world…”
  – Mary H.K. Choi [21:55]

• "I think this happened for me when I was 13…just understanding that when you wear something special, people treat you differently."
  – Mary H.K. Choi [37:02]

• “I’m not out here being the sincerity police in this day and age…We’re living in AI; the ship has sailed.”
  – Mary H.K. Choi [66:21]

• “I like both…Kindle is a sundowning book. So if you’re in bed, that’s the Kindle for me.”
  – Mary H.K. Choi [64:50]

• “I could…But I’d sooner move out of New York and sell all my johns.” (on whether she’d write AI personality prompts for a living)
  – Mary H.K. Choi [69:10]

• “No one’s edited me on content for, like, PG-ness or NC-17-ness or anything like that. Just the quality of the work.”
  – Mary H.K. Choi [40:03]

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Highlights & Memorable Segments

• [04:07-14:06] – Ultra-detailed “fit check” lo-fi fashion masterclass with stories about Asian fashion lineage and anecdotes about shopping/stealing at vintage fairs.
• [14:12-17:43] – Confronting the “broken promise” of not shouting out Throwing Fits in Pool House, the “dedication TK” publishing trope, and the uncompromising reality of writing.
• [23:38-25:51] – On LA as a mood and setting for the novel: love, purgatory, and depression with sun.
• [36:03-38:09] – An honest, very funny discussion about coming of age, body image, and how conservatism and the male gaze shape young women’s experiences.
• [39:24-42:16] – Open conversation about writing explicit sex scenes, why they matter, and using them for character development.
• [61:06-64:23] – On celebrity book clubs (Dua Lipa “knows ball”), books as social flexes, and the “performance” of reading in public.
• [105:20-106:18] – The volatility of author/writing finances and the unglamorous sacrifices and choices required.
• [110:27-112:31] – Brokest grown-up behavior, fine dining bloodsport, New York’s “swagless” moneyed class, and the commodification of cool.
• [115:53-117:20] – Heartfelt closing: Mary’s verdict on the pod, camaraderie, plugging Pool House and her Substack.

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Useful Timestamps for Navigation

• Fit Check: [04:07–14:06]
• Dedication, Author Life, Neurodivergence: [14:12–17:43]
• Book Marketing / BookTok / Substack: [19:02–22:13], [71:04–74:00], [103:02–104:29]
• Sex Scenes & YA vs. Adult: [36:03–42:16]
• Bestseller List Mechanics: [26:28–29:00]
• Financial Real Talk: [104:44–106:41]
• NYC vs. LA Riffs: [87:16–94:41]
• Favorite Reads & Book Recos: [94:45–100:10]
• Substack, Communities, and Recommendations: [100:19–104:29]
• Book Recommendations Section: [99:11–100:10]
• End-of-Episode Reflections and Plugs: [115:53–117:20]

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Final Thoughts

Throwing Fits x Mary H.K. Choi is both an ode to books and a portrait of creative hustle in a deeply unserious, glamorously neurotic, extremely online age. It’s sharp, self-aware, unfiltered, and genuinely funny—crammed with inside baseball for writers and publishing nerds, plus fashion and culture bits galore. Mary H.K. Choi’s Pool House is positioned not just as a “book of the summer,” but one with enough edge, humor, and depth to become a cult classic—and this interview is your perfect companion primer.

Follow Mary:

• IG/Twitter: @choitotheworld
• Substack: maryhkchoi.substack.com
• Pool House out June 9 (bookshop.org, indie retailers, etc.)

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(All advertisements and housekeeping removed; focus maintained on core interview and discussion content.)

Transcript

[Podcast Host (Libsyn Ads)]

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[Co-host 1]

Our guest this week is penning Paige Turner's all the Way from the Pool House. Her writing must have had his balls dropped because she's leaving ya in the rearview mirror and on her way to up the A game. She's the latest Korean in Hollywood hunting down her demons and she's gonna have you smacked like you hoes hit the bomb. When she drops in June can find her new book Pool House in the fiction section right next to the Bible. Here to chat celebrity book clubs finally writing sex scenes and what substack she is not reading New York Times best selling author, Mary H.K.

[Co-host 2]

choi.

[Co-host 1]

Mary, how are you?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Hi. I'm thrilled to be here. It's been a minute.

[Co-host 1]

It's been six years.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, it has been six years.

[Co-host 2]

And funnily enough like you finally have motion again. So you're back on the pod.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I know, I'm just like unfurling from total irrelevancy. No, no, no, no. I mean like books, man. I've been. Books.

[Co-host 1]

What's up?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

What's up with those but kind of books, man? I mean like even, you know, we were talking a little bit in preparation for this. Just kidding. Everything is completely off the cuff. But like we were talking about books like and I kind of feel like the emissary or the envoy from Bookland to be like, remember books.

[Co-host 1]

You fucking with books.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I fuck with books. Heavy. I stay fucking with books. But like I do know that in a pivot to video world, books tough sell.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. Especially for Gen Z.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Especially for Jesse.

[Co-host 1]

Why don't you have Crash Bandicoot playing on like one page that you know,

[Co-host 2]

correct people's subway server?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I haven't not thought about it. Like it, it is, it is hard to basically like popcorn chicken it into like A like a dandruff nugget of like information from a book. It's hard.

[Co-host 2]

She's got a way with words, folks.

[Co-host 1]

You can we read the book in like 30 second increments on TikTok? You could do that.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Audiobook, I think, if you really, really want it. One can actually. Totally. Why not? Yeah. That feels like an art project.

[Co-host 1]

Well, it is six years ago since you were last on the podcast. Because it's taken you six years to write this book.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It has. It's called development. I was. I was called ADHD or autism no shots.

[Co-host 2]

Both.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been a long. It's been an adventure.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

What neurodivergencies have you developed in the last six years?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, you know what, actually it's not that I developed it, it's that I discovered it. It was always there.

[Co-host 1]

Are you born. Is it like sexuality? Are you born this way?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes, it's like preternatural.

[Co-host 2]

Did you have a traumatic head injury in the past six years?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, but that is such an 80s joke, dad. Like unk.

[Co-host 2]

Like, I don't write books. I write picture books.

[Co-host 1]

Guys.

[Co-host 2]

Chop.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, I just mean that like, you know, I was off developing my other books into like screen and like movies and like movie singular. And like TV show. And as we all know, both those industries doing great.

[Co-host 2]

Y.

[Co-host 1]

You fuck with tv. What's up tv?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Tv. Tv. Thriving tv. Really fun.

[Co-host 1]

But lots of turn your TV show into a book.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Which people do that? People do do that. But like, you know, it's. It's. It's just. It's been a weird time for media. I don't know if you guys feel that.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, I mean, we're feeling good on. On the independent side of things, but we see. Sure, we can read the tea leaves

[Co-host 1]

live streaming this on kick right now. Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, you protected yourself, patreonly speaking in so far as talking directly to your consumer base. Straight conduit brain. Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

With that said, this episode is free. So you are speaking to a lot you want to watch. First things first. Mary, you showed up today super bundled up. It is winter again. Can you walk us through everything you wore to POD today in a fit check?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally. So, you know, let's. Let's start. I know you guys like to go top to bottom or bottom to top, but I want to go outerwear to inner past that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like Nanamika Parka. Very, very, very warm. Gore Tex fishtail. Yes, Fishtail fire. Like an 80s Yoji that has like Suit pants, but they're a weirdly unflattering culotte length.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[Co-host 1]

Is it a woman's suit?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, they're. It's men's, but I don't know.

[Co-host 2]

Culotte. I haven't heard that name in years.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So that I. I split them up and I'm wearing.

[Co-host 1]

Is it vintage?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It is vintage. It's.

[Co-host 1]

It's from the 80s.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

From the 80s?

[Co-host 1]

Where'd you get it?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I bought it at. God, what is that huge vintage sale thing at Industry City. That used to be somewhere else. And it's like all these vendors and it's nothing new. No, it's. It's another one, but it's. At the time I was just. Someone else was carrying it on the floor and so I was like, holy shit, that's mine. And then they put it down. They had that sort of like, indecision moment.

[Co-host 1]

Wait, are you sure they gave it up or were they making their pile? Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Because that's foul and that's just like. That's just like upstreaming cabs. Like, that's just bad. And so I like distinctly asked them, and they did have a glimmer of indecision. Again, confronted with the option of me

[Co-host 1]

possibly this cool girl wants my.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, exactly. You're like, wait a second. I'm second guessing.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But so it's that it's. It's terrific. And then under it, I'm actually wearing a silk shirt, also from the 90s that my dad used to important export. And it's. It's a silk shirt covered in, so sodium alginate. It's when they had the sounds.

[Co-host 1]

Sounds like you're almond milk.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally. But like, it. It's kind of. It's coated in something that makes it waterproof. So that was like the. The hot new technology that. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

And you'll sweat like a. Like a horn church, but yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Yes. Swamp pits.

[Co-host 1]

Your dad was a garmento?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

My dad was a garmento. So actually, like, this is. It might be a fever dream, but now it's apocryphal. And it's part of my personal, like, mythos. But I really think at some point I had seen a biggie Levi's fake pair in my dad's office. Wow. And I was like, holy shit.

[Co-host 1]

So swag is in your blood.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's. It's true.

[Co-host 1]

I can't find as well as whatever's coating your shirt that and like, you

[Mary H.K. Choi]

know, gout, apparently, because that was microplastics. Your dad had gout.

[Co-host 1]

He did the disease of kings.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It is true. It's some emperor shit fucking legend. And then the pants are Solange.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And actually Solange as a word.

[Co-host 2]

I love her music.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Very in right now insofar as everyone's into fragrances.

[Co-host 1]

What does it mean as?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It means like the sort of the quality or not the quality, but like I think the duration of like how perfume lingers in the air after the person has left.

[Co-host 2]

Interesting.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

How poetic.

[Co-host 2]

That's romantic.

[Co-host 1]

As this stinky.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I know either or it's just like this person like. Oh, deed heavy on. Yeah. But like so that's that and socks are comcy. The little cashmere ones.

[Co-host 2]

Of course.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's cold.

[Co-host 1]

Jenny.

[Co-host 2]

Those are great.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. And very old Asian owned business.

[Co-host 1]

Asian female. Female.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's true.

[Co-host 1]

And what era Gucci of these?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

These are extremely old. I again purchased some vintage maybe like Tom ford era maybe 15 years ago. I don't think so. Tom Ford era.

[Co-host 1]

Do they. Have you bought these new 15 years ago?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, I bought these old 15 years ago. And so the horsebit is actually a little smaller than I've seen.

[Co-host 1]

They're.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, they're women's loafers.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Yeah. But they're. They're very like nondescript and I like them.

[Co-host 2]

Deal sleds for making deals.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The undies, actually. Oh my God. So Uniqlo underwear. But the, the bra. I bought one of those like jelly bras from TikTok. Those viral jelly bras tell us more. I mean they're just. It's like made of like flammable extrusion fiber. Like.

[Co-host 1]

Like your shirt.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, yeah. It's like macroplasty but I ripped out the weird like jelly inserts and it is the most autistic friendly bra.

[Co-host 2]

Oh wow.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I've ever met. Might see you laugh now. You're a dick.

[Co-host 2]

Well, like because I mean I am famously ableism.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But like it's so fudgeing comfortable. It's like seamless.

[Co-host 1]

So it's not like you can like it doesn't have like spinners on it

[Mary H.K. Choi]

or like no spinners on it or

[Co-host 1]

there's no like stimming fidget spinners on the nips.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like I mean fam. Like women's clothing low key. Like where the seams are and shit. It's so uncomfortable.

[Co-host 1]

Right? Yeah. And so into your ribs.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's like ugh. And so this one is not constricting. But it's also not like the topography isn't like, you know, like.

[Co-host 1]

But also like don't put it in the dry for too long or it will spontaneously combust.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean. Yeah, possibly very much.

[Co-host 1]

And what about. Oh, your bag and your scarf, your accessories.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Burberry scarf, very old, also vintage for my mom. And. Yeah. Porter bag. Yeah. Trapper hat. That's from L.L. bean, the classic Trapper. And also, like, Buffalo Check, which I hear is making a resurgence.

[Co-host 2]

We've been waiting, but it hasn't really.

[Co-host 1]

Also saw those two headlines.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

What about your signature shade of red?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

My signature shade of red has always been Ruby Woo by Mac. Because I. And it's very, very chopped.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, it's very, like, it's. Everyone's just like, matt is not in anymore. Da, da, da, da. This is apparently how I'm betraying my, like, advanced years.

[Co-host 1]

What. What type of, like, Korean beauty are you using these days?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I am not. Well, it's all over the place, actually. Like, some of it is French that a Korean person told me to get.

[Co-host 2]

Well, that's the ultimate cosine.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally. But. But interiorly speaking, I would also like to say I am on 10 milligrams of Vyvanse and 1.25 milligrams of Minoxidil. Yeah, you're smacking. Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Getting out ahead of it.

[Co-host 1]

I do.

[Co-host 2]

I respect that.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yo, Like, I can't with Top Rogaine, man. And so many women, I swear to Christ, are constantly freaking out to me about how like, a third of their hair falls out. Plus, you don't even notice that you're losing your hair until Dead ass. Like, a very, very large percentage of it.

[Co-host 2]

You pass. You, like, cross the Rubicon and it's like, that's gone forever.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

You the frog. Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You go from, like, a tiny winking part to, like.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

A crevasse.

[Co-host 2]

The foot.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

What about the hardware on the fingers? And is there anything around the neck or is that it?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

This is like a vintage Junior Kieselstein cord. Like, it's. It's kind of like hilarious jewelry.

[Co-host 1]

Do you know Hilarious Julie bought on Tik Tok.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, but, like, you know how David Yurman is hilarious.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, sure.

[Co-host 1]

But also sick.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So sick. But, like, chrome hearts hilarious.

[Co-host 2]

I see what you're saying.

[Co-host 1]

Don't make fun of him.

[Co-host 2]

He's.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

As a genre, though, you kind of. It does toe the line of, like, jolie laid or, like, douchebag laid or, like. You know what I mean? Where it's like. It's like the. Like. It just reminds me of, like, a 19. Like, it, like, the aughts. Neiman Marcus, million dollar plus, in circle points consumer. You know what I mean? It's like a very specific type.

[Co-host 2]

Nouveau riche, gauche.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Ghosh Rish. Like all of it.

[Co-host 1]

But if you wear it semi ironically.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, of course. Like us here, we're good.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Don't you think that ironism. Don't you think that irony is kind of over and like, sincerity and irony now is virtually indistinct?

[Co-host 2]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Co-host 1]

I lost track of the.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I know. The discord. I'm. No kidding. So it's like I have my engagement ring and.

[Co-host 1]

Are you. Did you tie the knot?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I married. Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Congrats.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Thanks. Thanks, guys.

[Co-host 1]

So it's an engagement ring. What's the difference between an engagement ring and a wedding?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, it's a wedding band. I don't know why I said that. Because. Because I think the romance is alive in my heart.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

That's the interior by Vance.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Or the no kids that, hey, I

[Co-host 2]

like the color your gym.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And then this is a ring that Carol Lim from Opening Ceremony bought me and her and our other friend, Jenny Han.

[Co-host 2]

So friendship rings.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Friendship rings.

[Co-host 1]

What's Carol up to these days?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

She is la, in la, living an incredible life. She also started a summer camp.

[Co-host 1]

What?

[Co-host 2]

For children?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, can you imagine? A summer camp for perimenopausal women? No, a summer camp for children in Korea. And so, like, all of our friends just spend the entire summer together and send all their kids to summer camp. And it's so nice.

[Co-host 1]

She kind of hacked the hang.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

She hacked the hang big time. And so, like, your kids are gone.

[Co-host 1]

All the sick of all her. All her friends being like, sorry, I got the kids. She's like, all right, I'm gonna start this. Send them away, ship them off. I'll give you the friends and family discount and we can finally hang out.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And actually, the real, real clutch clutch under, like, the radar sell on, that is you can get a bunch of your Korean face done and mass.

[Co-host 2]

And all you're doing is with your kids at summer camp. But you're.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And then, yeah, it's like they're at camp. I'm at camp. You know what I'm saying? And then face camp. Totally. And then you and your friends can just, you know, like, convalesce.

[Co-host 2]

That's fire.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And not smile too big.

[Co-host 1]

Never do that. Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And then. And then I have an opal ring that's vintage that my friend Dana gave me.

[Co-host 1]

Opal Gagum style.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Sorry, Opal. Opal is apparently supposed to be gifted and is hydrophilic, so it needs to Be like wet every once in a while. It's like a living thing. It's cool.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It likes it like to get wet. Yeah. So that's that.

[Co-host 1]

All right. Fit check. Thorough fit check.

[Co-host 2]

Very.

[Co-host 1]

Oh. Drink check. Sipping on some still some room temp water.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Let's get into the meat potatoes. Mary. Starting off, we got a bone to pick. All right.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

All right.

[Co-host 1]

Six years ago, you made us a promise on page 55 of your new book, Pool House, out on June 9th. Book pre order now. Ask your library about it. You wrote about Moon, a character, Moon's fashion collection, saying, quote, minimally, it'll be noticed on someone's substack or particularly in depth podcast by staggeringly fashionable men, possibly Las Culturitas. I literally, when I was reading that,

[Co-host 2]

I was like, oh, here it comes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

What the.

[Co-host 2]

You edged us to not completion.

[Co-host 1]

Said on the last podcast you would include throwing fits in your next book. Should I email Marlena Bittner to make the change?

[Co-host 2]

You liar.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Okay, I will say that. Era wise, red carpet wise for what? What. What particular brands and designers she's into. That was just a better fit.

[Co-host 2]

Sounds heterophobic.

[Co-host 1]

Really? They talk about G on last whatever the.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They talk about everything over at Las Culturistas with. With friend Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers.

[Co-host 1]

Sucks.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You know what? Actually, speaking of this podcast, I was like two days ago, years old when I realized that, like, throwing fits as in tantrums. Yeah, I. I'm telling you in a

[Co-host 2]

lot of layers to what we do, Mary.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, but that's like, I thought that was really beautiful. It really works on so many levels.

[Co-host 2]

Thank you. That's what means a lot coming from a brain such as yours. Even though that seemed pretty obvious.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah. It's called literary wordplay. Maybe give it a shot.

[Co-host 2]

Look into it. You lie.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You see how I pivoted, however, with that compliment from your animus towards me?

[Co-host 2]

You're ready for the press junket. Strap her up and shoot her to the moon.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, very good. I love it.

[Co-host 1]

Anyway, that one page 55. Book it at least in the paperback. I don't know about the hardback in the advanced in the events paperback copy that we received. The dedication page currently reads dedication TK Yeah. Who are you going to dedicate it to? And do they know that they are an afterthought?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, actually, dedication TK Is. Is what most people do.

[Co-host 2]

Oh.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Because it's a little bit of like a tease. It's like, who. Who will it be? Like what's what?

[Co-host 2]

There's still time.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

What potential first of all, it's out, it's, it's done. This one I dedicated to my husband.

[Co-host 1]

Okay.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, we get.

[Co-host 1]

So it's not a. Is that like a political play? You're like, no, everybody gets one.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think it's a little bit of an. Because like, obviously living with a writer is batshit crazy.

[Co-host 1]

Why?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, we're like sociopaths. It's like we, I mean, fiction writers literally sitting around making up and then deciding that like I'm gonna try to make you care for money.

[Co-host 2]

Put it that way. Sounds insane.

[Co-host 1]

So it's not like the romantic notion of like the tortured writer that you have in, that we all have in our heads is like the, you know, the archetype. It's really just like you're.

[Co-host 2]

No saying an annoying roommate.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, no, I mean like. But at its core, I mean for first of all books, especially fiction, largely unsolicited, they're not sold on advance. And that means. Is that you have to write the whole thing. And so if you've ever worked with a guy who like maybe did a hero's dose of psilocybin or like, you know what I mean? Like did DMT once or like telling you about a dream he once had, like, that's a little bit what like fiction writing is. I'm saying. But it's, it's not. Not gross. I think that like if you don't feel like high key humiliated when you're

[Co-host 1]

writing this whole thing was just a humiliation ritual.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally.

[Co-host 2]

I mean, especially when you get into the content of the actual book.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's a kink. Yeah, I mean the content. Spicy.

[Co-host 1]

Were you sharing like pages with your hubby?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I was. But like there's been so many versions of this. Like with. I mean, in this book I discovered I was adhd. In this book I discovered I was autistic.

[Co-host 1]

Really?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

So multitudes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, like dead.

[Co-host 1]

I noticed that on page 118.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Just you had caught a whiff of it. You caught the silage on that.

[Co-host 2]

What is wrong with this woman?

[Co-host 1]

The spacing is so perfect. No, I mean like transition to iambic pentameter all of a sudden.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

God, I wish I could. Did you guys watch him more?

[Co-host 1]

You need more?

[Co-host 2]

Yes. I did not enjoy it particularly.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Why? You don't even have kids.

[Co-host 2]

Exactly. So I didn't resonate at all with the content.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Oh my God. The whole thing was about death. I cried so hard.

[Co-host 2]

I mean for sure. And I.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Do you know that you're going to die?

[Co-host 2]

Do I know? Wait, this is the first I'm hearing of it throwing. I mean, honestly, I can't wait. Release me, dude. This mortal coil.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I. Sometimes I feel this way.

[Co-host 1]

I didn't watch it. I read the book.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I did too. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Are you lying to my face?

[Co-host 2]

Is the kid as annoying in the book?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You could. You could not even fake it for very long. Did either of you watch Begonia?

[Co-host 2]

Of course.

[Co-host 1]

No. Hell no.

[Co-host 2]

Loved it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Me neither. I haven't seen it.

[Co-host 2]

It's very.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I love Reuben Oslin and I don't understand why I haven't watched it yet.

[Co-host 2]

Do you like pessimistic movies? Did you like Eddington?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I have not seen Eddington. Another movie that I wanted to watch and then kind of forgot about. But this is my point.

[Co-host 1]

It's a documentary.

[Co-host 2]

They're both fantastic as a double feature. In terms of feeling more pessimistic about movies.

[Co-host 1]

We're on. We're on books.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

We're on books. But books are kind of the same deal where it's a little bit, like, so hard to market. It's like the marketing largely is like, this other person read it and they liked it.

[Co-host 1]

Or.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Or you have to just read the whole thing. You know what.

[Co-host 1]

What does move the needle? What does move the needle in making book sales easy?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That's a really good question. And if I knew it, I would be doing it right now. I think it's this podcast.

[Co-host 2]

Maybe what bad ideas have been pitched to you by, like, the publisher or your agent in terms of.

[Co-host 1]

And there. Sorry, there is a marketing plan in the advanced copy as well.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Bizarre. That.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, really? I didn't even beep that.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They. They just give you the.

[Co-host 2]

No spoilers.

[Co-host 1]

The whole recipe looks like npr.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Podcast.

[Co-host 2]

I mean, so radio, but a little bit.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Fuck radio, but a little bit. This is exactly right. It's like, how do you market a book in this moment? I don't actually know. I mean, like, I. I really think. I mean, I'm thinking of taking classifieds at. Out on other people's substacks. That's fun. Or like, I might, like, sponsor one episode of some. Just because, like, I don't know.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

This podcast is brought to you by Pool House. You will be depressed. I guarantee it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You will be depressed. June 9th. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Is your marketing team going to tell you to really lean into the Koreanness of it all since Hankook is extra popping right now with the K Pop stars and K Pop demon hunters going crazy?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Actually, no. I think that moment has kind of passed.

[Co-host 1]

Really? Because the Woman said, it's finally. I'm finally seeing people like me six years after Parasite.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm not saying that like I loved K Pop Demon Hunter.

[Co-host 1]

Yes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And I actually had like preemptive. A little bit of exhaustion where I was just like, when is this Korean train gonna end? Like deadass as the me in this. And then I watched and I was. I like started crying during Golden. I was like, what is happening to me? It's so fire incredible. I had full on tingle face. And so I say this to say like, I don't know that like a book because the characters are incidentally Korean and there are aspects to it that sort of signal their Koreanness. But like, again, as the me, I'm not walking around being like, damn, I'm like Korean over here.

[Co-host 1]

What is your marketing team trying to pressure?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't think so.

[Co-host 2]

Get a blurb from a demon hunter. Right. You know that Mary personally get Lisa. All know each other.

[Co-host 1]

Lisa or Jenny or someone to orbit out.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, like, I think there's probably, I don't, I don't know how much of that train I can necessarily ride.

[Co-host 1]

But Korea is. We talked about this six years ago and you were actually somewhat prescient on it when it came to like beauty trends. You're like, South Korea is the soft power capital of the world right now. Maybe except for like fashion, but in terms of entertainment, movies, technology now like aesthetics and technology and beauty and cars. So, yeah, technology, I guess like South Korea is it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, South Korea is it. And they've spent a lot of money. I mean that whole soft power thing is it's called halu and they've spent so much money and invested by Samsung, invested so much money to make that happen. And they have a lot of like incredibly canny. Like, like if you've ever watched a competition based reality show, that's Korean. If it's like, which is Culinary Class wars or like physical 100 or any of these, the gameplay in them is so next level in terms of like, psychologically it's like, all right, well these people against these people. And now that the number has dwindled to this, now the rules are changing to this. And so they keep it incredibly dynamic. So it' really, really fudgeing sticky. Like it's like again, like, I liken everything to like Doritos, but it's like brain Doritos where you're like, did I eat a Dorito? I don't know. Keep eating triangles. Like Korea is so good at that. And like, I like which I really, really appreciate. But then it's this weird thing where it's like, you know, Pool House is a lot more like something like a beef, where it's not like Korea.

[Co-host 1]

Korea.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's actually like, Korean Americans, and we are kind of this, like, weird, like. Like, not that we're splintered, but it's like. It is like a. A different sort of experience than being like, I'm a Korean person living in Korea.

[Co-host 2]

Sure.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So, yeah, there is, like, a lot more themes of, like, alienation and stuff that I. I feel like it's more like the immigrant experience or, like, aging as a previously famous person in America in this moment.

[Co-host 1]

You described it. You describe Pool House as a mix of BoJack Horseman and Parasite. Is it really that depressing of a book?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's not depressing. It' la, first of all. So, like, to answer that question, yes, well, kind of, but it's like. To answer that question, it's like, how depressing do you find la?

[Co-host 2]

Incredibly, impossibly depressing.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But isn't it depressing? Because there's nothing that depressing about it. So it has that sort of purgatorial aspect where you're like, you know, my. My body is the exact temperature as the outside is. The sun is constantly shining at me, no matter what is going on in my life. And, like, I weirdly don't remember how I got home in my car because I'm always driving. Like, all of these things sort of have this accretive effect where you. You like, find out you're depressed on a delay and.

[Co-host 2]

And all this stuff fuels, like, an existential crisis in all of its residents. Like.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, I mean. And I think it's a particularly tough for, like, a New York person, which I am spiritually, cognitively, in all the ways, aesthetically, aesthetically, emotionally, where. Whenever, medically, yeah, like, totally. But, like, whenever I'm in la, I have the feeling like the. Like, I've left the gas on in my other life. Do you know what I mean, where I'm like, there. There is another existence. I'm in this weird schism or liminal state, and I have some degree of urgency around this existence, but I don't remember it. It. That's what LA feels like to me.

[Co-host 1]

You're just in, like. You're floating in the woe.

[Co-host 2]

Fever dream.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, fever dream. Floating in the womb. And it's beautiful, it's anesthetizing. It's kind of like a.

[Co-host 2]

That's how. That's how I'll get you. Trojan horses. All the other it is, but it's

[Mary H.K. Choi]

that whole thing of like, you know, New York is like fun hell and LA is like, you know.

[Co-host 2]

Right. No, right, right.

[Co-host 1]

Is the book a love letter to LA or you to la? Because it feels like it's kind of.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Of, it's kind of both. Like you can't. You can't be a certain age and have every emotion not be totally alloyed. Like, I feel like every good thing also induces anxiety about like, how do I hold on to this? And every bad thing, it's like, lol, at least this will end. And like, oh, I thought I was depressed, but now I'm really depressed. You know what I mean? Like, there is like a variation to it and I think this book is

[Co-host 1]

that when you were in la, so you spent. Went. You were there for how long?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I was there for two years for you.

[Co-host 1]

Were you stuck with the 2020 Honda Fit the whole time or did you upgrade?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Actually, no, because I had my Honda fit the last in New York. Oh. During COVID Best car for New York for parking. Unbelievable. But in la, I. I pushed it. Like, what are they called? Like a CT300. Those little like hatchback electric.

[Co-host 1]

Oh, not the Lexi. Not the fake Rolls Royce.

[Co-host 2]

What the big timers would get for their moms.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, exactly. Or they' weirdly diminutive little sister. Like that car. It was great.

[Co-host 1]

If Pool House doesn't hit the New York Times best seller list, will you consider this book a failure? Because you're two for three. Three for three?

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Okay, so I chat.

[Co-host 1]

GPT wasn't sure on Yoke.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, Yoke actually outsold both of the. The other ones, however, came out during COVID Did not hit the list because you know how the list works, right? No, nobody does. No, I'm kidding. Well, they have some idea.

[Co-host 1]

The Bible's up there. There it always is.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The. The thing is, it's like the list is like really enshrouded in mystery. But largely it's a bunch of places that like report to the list. So it's kind of like Nielsen. Remember, like tv? Yeah. Like, it's like some people report and that gives you sort of an overall idea of like how the book is doing. And that's sales based. And the reason why people are always like, pre order, pre order, pre order is that that first week, that's your box office open. Ah. And so like you can like have a pre order go for like, I don't know, six months, eight months, whatever. What the books sold in that time counts towards your first week of sales.

[Co-host 2]

Pre order. Pre order.

[Co-host 1]

Why didn't you hit a Sheena Shay and pre. And just order a shitload of your own books that you could hit the best seller list?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Because that as. Again, like, as a performance art piece. Hilarious. But, like, ex. Like, just actually, like, can you imagine how sad you.

[Co-host 2]

Yes, of course.

[Co-host 1]

It's very LA move.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Hence Sheena Shay doing it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But also, like, I don't know, like, that just like, I'm a little bit. Like, if that's a verb you would ever consider doing, what are your other verbs, bro?

[Co-host 2]

Oh, dude.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You know, I mean, like, knows how.

[Co-host 2]

How deep it goes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, and so, like, a little bit that. But it's, you know, it's. You got to sell, like, I think it's like, 11 to 12,000 books.

[Co-host 1]

Well, if the first two hit the list and the third one outsold the first two, then, like, it. Let's just call it three for three.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Well, with the COVID asterisk.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Covet asterisk. But there's so many.

[Co-host 2]

Mickey Mouse bestseller. Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Because it's like, you can make the list in the paper, and that's like. There's like, maybe like 12 to 15 spots. Whatever. You make that list online. There's even a couple more extra spots online. And then it's.

[Co-host 2]

You want to be in the paper.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You. Of course you. It's like being above the fold. You want to be in the paper. But then, like, because my brain is a nightmare place, I'm like, but I was a YA bestseller, and that's different from being adult bestseller or like, a fiction.

[Co-host 2]

Oh. In terms of you diminishing your own.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

My diminishing my own. It's like that thing of, like, you know, like, I only got a technical Emmy or whatever.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, Daytime.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Daytime.

[Co-host 2]

It was a daytime Emmy, but technically I'm an Emmy winner. No, you're not.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Do real authors look down on YA authors?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I actually don't know. I'm not, like, taking a poll. But, like, when you walk into a

[Co-host 1]

room and there's, like, authors, like, sorry, I don't know a authors. Like, I don't know, real authors. Sorry, that's pejorative.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But you know, how very dare.

[Co-host 2]

Author with a hard R. She's a YA author.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Author with a hard R is very funny. No, but, like, I don't. First of all, I don't know. But also, authors are pretty nice.

[Co-host 1]

Really?

[Co-host 2]

Fake fake nice?

[Co-host 1]

No, I mean, they need a blurb from you.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It depends. No, I mean, like, I'm sure There are dicks out in the world. Like, I mean, famously problematic dudes. Dudes exist in every field.

[Co-host 1]

But like, yeah, largely David Foster walls Kill yourself, bro.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Largely. It's like, yo, we all do this thing and it's. You know what I mean?

[Co-host 2]

So brothers in arms kind of.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's camaraderie. Yeah. Like honor amongst thieves. I don't know, it's like we, we just like, we do this thing. The other people feel our pain. You know, it's. It's kind of chill. But like I will say that like pound for pound, room to room. Why authors are so nice, dude. And they're like chilling. They're like, they just like sell books.

[Co-host 1]

Like got more money.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, they're so. Yeah, they're really content. They like read their books. They like their books, they like their friends. But it's so, so nice.

[Co-host 1]

The material is less tortured.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't like. That's also like, I don't, I don't really know, but maybe. But truly, I think if I hadn't come up through ya, I, I low key might have been like this. Oh, a little bit. Like it was. I had such a good experience and like the experience in adult is, is wonderful too, but it is like a different beast, I think.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, all way authors sound great. Especially. What's that one? What? J.K. rowling.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Right.

[Co-host 1]

But how do, how. So how do you judge the success or failure of a book if it's not necessarily being on the best solutions? That's such a weird, gray, nebulous thing.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think it's like if I'm able to touch just one soul. No, I'm kidding.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't fucking know, man. It's like it's anything. It's like the list is fucking great. It's like awards are great, you know, like Indie Next, which is like American Booksellers association where like individual bookstores that are all like indie owned will vote for your shit and it comes out on a big monthly list that's like people's choice or like, or like when you go to like, I don't know, like the SAG Awards or whatever, where it's like your peers that kind of feel. Where it's like, like someone's real ass opinion of the book they read and they loved, like that's also really meaningful. But then again around and like if you're shortlisted for like the National Book Awards or Penn Faulkner or Book Booker, then it's like that's really sexy.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, for sure.

[Co-host 1]

How do you become a staff pick? At these cool little indie book nooks.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Payola, baby.

[Co-host 1]

Really?

[Co-host 2]

A couple pickleback shots. We get you on the shelf.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, I mean, it really is like, each person's opinion and like, I. When I. When I go to a stor, like,

[Co-host 1]

you move them out of the stat picks table.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I know. Just like, flood them. No, but it's like when they're handwritten by, like, the. I mean, that's like, going to, like, I don't know, like, Kim's video or some. Or, you know what I mean, where it's like, just, like, real curated in, like a nice.

[Co-host 2]

It's real.

[Co-host 1]

It's also like, as a consumer, I'm like, thank you. Now I know what this book is actually about and I'm going to go read it.

[Co-host 2]

Right.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Because it's also, again, hard to market. And like, you got it. There's only. Only someone who's read the book or experienced the book can actually, like, say certain things about it.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

That's valid.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah. How many bestseller books? So let's. You're. Three. Three for three, Right. How many bestseller books does one need before their immigrant parents finally believe that writing is a real job?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, I think it's twofold. 1. Has it been translated in your native mother tongue?

[Co-host 2]

Has it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It have recently had.

[Co-host 1]

Which one?

[Co-host 2]

Grats.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The first, actually. Emergency Contact and Yolk. So my mother has read those. L. So she, like, it was. I mean, it was kind of beautiful. She read them and she actually had an opinion of them.

[Co-host 2]

Are they her staff picks?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They were her staff.

[Co-host 1]

What she. What was her feedback to you on. On these two?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, she said that there was a market improvement.

[Co-host 2]

Of course she did.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

One, two, three. But then she said about the third one, she's. She was just like, you know, I didn't really know what a close observer you were.

[Co-host 1]

Oh.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And I was like, beautiful.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

She learned something new about her daughter a little bit.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But I was like, did you just think I was, like, dumb this whole time? But then. And then she was just like, you know, she was just like. I thought the characters were a lot more nuanced. And then she said, would you agree with me? Because I don't really know. And I was just like, that is like, I was raised by a narcissist. I was like, that is actually the most, like, humble and heartfelt cosign I've ever experienced. But the fact that she was, like, unsure.

[Co-host 2]

Seeking your approval.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Like. Like I was suddenly an authority in her mind was like, you did write the book. Well, A little bit. But I had to turn away, and I was like, we can stop talking about this now. You know what I mean? Like, it was.

[Co-host 1]

Shut up, Mom.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Shut up.

[Co-host 1]

As your mom read Pool House?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

My mom has not read Pool House. My hope is that it will never be translated into. I mean, it's. It's. There's so much sex in it, and it's. It's. It's a up book, and. But it's also really funny.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And, like, so it's like a very black humor type book. And I'm a little bit.

[Co-host 2]

Very BoJack.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's very BoJack. It's very, like, like, what am I, a Norwegian filmmaker? Sure. And so I'm wondering, like, how that would carry for her how much of.

[Co-host 1]

How much of your own mother is in the character's Moon or even in Moon's mother, Sunny.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That's really interesting. I think it's an amalgam. I think Moon is actually like a cross between me and my mother or so. So the things that are developing in me that I sort of blame her for or ascribe to her, and that's really uncomfortable and weird. I mean, it's weird to interrogate yourself as you age, but. So basically, Moon is an out of work actor, and she was made famous by, like, you know, B movies and kind of like. Like B movies from, like, the 90s and the aughts, where she, like, kind of plays like, like a sapphic, like, kinder that's a home wrecker. She's like the babysitter who likes exploitation film. Yeah. Like, who, like, sleeps with the dad or whatever. And. And then she was in a sitcom that kind of really was stereotypical and was based on an army base. And, like, it was all about, you know, just her as an Asian, even though she played a Hawaiian Japanese person instead of a Korean person.

[Co-host 1]

So it's like she's like Emma Stone.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, exactly. And so it's like, like all of that stuff. And so it's. It's. It's. It's kind of a story of immigration. And not despite the fact that she. Moon, was like, you know, born here.

[Co-host 1]

Right. Stevie is second generation.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Stevie is second generation.

[Co-host 1]

How much of yourself. How much of Mary is in Stevie and how much of yourself is in Moon?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, I mean, Stevie is me as a young person. So, like, chaotic. Really, really, like, mother hungry, like, touch starved, love starved, kind of horny. Super horny. Super, like. Like her horniness is like kind of like a power washer.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Where it just gets on Everything. And it's like, kind of like everywhere.

[Co-host 2]

And I need a power washer after reading those sexies.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, but, like. And so I. I think it's a lot of me as, like, a kid at the sort of age where, like, I was getting into, like, eating disorders and. And when I was, like, just understanding that when you wore something special, people treated you differently. Like, how old were you guys when you fully first harnessed that aspect of, like. It's not that I'm wearing a costume, it's that I'm finally wearing something that is emblematic of who I am.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, interesting.

[Co-host 1]

When I wore a suit, it's my bar mitzvah.

[Co-host 2]

No, I'm kidding.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, but seriously, when you were maybe younger.

[Co-host 2]

So you were saying you were 20, like, Stevie, when this kind of happened

[Co-host 1]

or when you started embracing your body.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think when. When. I think this happened for me when I was 13. Okay.

[Co-host 2]

I would say the same around there, but it's different.

[Co-host 1]

Freshman girls now, where it's like, you have the leering, the male gaze.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, across the pedo factor definitely has a part in that.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Where you are, like, especially in the 90s, where literally it was, like, very cool. Yeah. It was not cool.

[Co-host 1]

It was. It was chill more.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But it was also like. Like, heads were dead ass. Wearing schoolgirl uniforms.

[Co-host 2]

Like Britney Spears.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Because it's contempo. You know what I mean? And that was very much for the male gaze. Yeah. Britney Spears on the COVID of Rolling Stone. Like, you know that whole thing. I know, but classic banger. And, like, a lot of that attitudinally is really back right now. Don't you think?

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, I mean. Yeah, there's a. There's like a shift more towards, like, I think culture is very conservative right now. Or conservativeness is cool.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. And it's kind of like hemlines in the economy.

[Co-host 1]

Right.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, when. When culture is more like conservative women get thinner.

[Co-host 2]

Interesting.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And like, more like, I don't know, like, childified.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Infantilized.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Infantilized.

[Co-host 2]

It seems like the one, but because it does seem like the one thing everyone can agree on is that pedophilia is bad. Well, everyone. But outsides of federal government.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, I think what everyone agree with

[Co-host 1]

people agree on that at all.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think people agree that pedophilia is Republican. I think that's what we're all agreeing. I'm kidding. It's both sides of the aisle. Let's be honest.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah. How difficult was it to write sex stuff after having to keep it PG13

[Mary H.K. Choi]

for so long, I have never kept it PG13. It's why my books are banned.

[Co-host 1]

You're banned where from Republican school. Republican states?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, certain states. Certain. Certain, like school libraries. Certain, like town libraries.

[Co-host 1]

That's good marketing.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That is good marketing. You would think.

[Co-host 1]

I mean, too dangerous for Wisconsin. Too dangerous. Arkansas.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But it's actually like, it's sometimes it's like really weird. It's like Massachusetts. I'm like, huh.

[Co-host 2]

And like a specific high school at a specific township.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. And. And so like, it's. I've always had some sex. Like, none of my books have been based on like really young teens. And like, let's face it, teens, teens, for sure. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

But the graphicness of the sex scenes again, like Lawrence was saying he needs to be washed down versus, like emergency contact, which is like.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, alluded to.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, alluded to.

[Co-host 2]

These are pretty graphic in a good way.

[Co-host 1]

Oh, I saw the tattoos I. That were under his shirt now. It's like, like whole stuff.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, I mean, it is whole stuff, but it's also like, I love writing sex scenes because sometimes it's just like, anatomically it's kind of hilarious. It's this like, odd thing we do together. It's like, it's like doing drugs together. It's just like, let's fast forward to a certain level of intimacy and like, you can't really unknow someone you've had sex with.

[Co-host 2]

True. So the most funny of writing is

[Mary H.K. Choi]

you can really try.

[Co-host 2]

So the most funny of writing is when it's a sex scene while the characters are also on drugs.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes. That's really fun.

[Co-host 1]

Were you.

[Co-host 2]

Great passage.

[Co-host 1]

Did you write. Did you have to tone it down or were you. Did your editors make you tone it down in the YA novels because you were trying to get fast forward to the whole stuff?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, not at all. They were, they were very, very supportive. Like, no one's edited me on content for like, you know, like PG Ness or NC17 Ness or anything like that.

[Co-host 2]

Just the quality of the work.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Like, how's it. How's the pros? Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[Co-host 1]

Is it like, like, like, I mean, we wouldn't know, but you know, when filming a movie, people like, oh, it's sex scene day. And everyone's like, you know, there's a different energy on set when you, like, are at your desk, at your typewriter, whatever the. Are you like, oh, it's sex scene day and you know, bang this out.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Not at all. Although I will say that like, sometimes do you have this thing. Do you Guys watch TV or like, movies where there's a sex scene and you find yourself, like, wanting to fast forward it.

[Co-host 2]

Absolutely not. I'm rewinding.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I. I am like, increasingly finding, like, certain sex scenes to be just like, I was watching. Like, I'm watching industry for the first time. I. I just started like, welcome aboard. Yeah. It's so good. I love it so much. But sometimes when I'm like, okay, I know this is a story device to allude to the D. And so sometimes I'm like, let's just fast forward it. It just seems like that's author brain maybe. Right?

[Co-host 2]

You're maybe versus just a viewer who's enraptured with the, you know, mischievous deeds and ET.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Hi, Jinx.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, the.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The.

[Co-host 2]

The sexual hijinks that we all come to love from industry.

[Co-host 1]

Do you fast forward through sex scenes in books?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Books? No, I love sex scenes in books. And that's my point. It's like, for some reason in books, I'm like, this is great. Other than the fact that I'm holding a book.

[Co-host 2]

Are you hamming it up then? Because you enjoy them so much?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Personally, I mean, I probably would re. Read sex scenes all the time, but a thing that authors do and like a writing exercise that I've heard authors, like, suggest is like, you have two characters. You're trying to figure out who they are and what they do. Make them have sex. Because it's so informative. It's like, who's leading? Who's like, the top, who's the bottom? Like, who's. Who is feeling this about it? Who's. Who's like. Who's like a shitty kisser? Like, who's first? Yeah, who came first? Whose body is secretly jacked? Whose body is like, secretly fucked up? Who, like, has a third nipple? Like, all of this just directs and like, informs a character.

[Co-host 1]

How bad was the first draft of your sex scenes?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The sex scenes are all. All killer. No filler.

[Co-host 1]

Really.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, like, hang them out.

[Co-host 1]

One and done.

[Co-host 2]

No pun intended.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Actually, one and done for the sex scenes. The only things I ever struggle with is big beginnings. Like the first five chapters. I'm like, what the. Like is this?

[Co-host 2]

It doesn't show though. What am I doing? Yeah, no, it's easy read. Let's be clear. This is a fun, breezy read.

[Co-host 1]

When. When you're. When you were making the jump from YA to a, what did have you the most nervous?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, so much. Like, you go from like, I'm a young adult author, which just sounds so, like, right Like, I don't know, it just sounds like I'm just joshing.

[Co-host 2]

Bush league.

[Co-host 1]

I'm just chilling.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's not bush league. It's more just like, I'm having fun, I'm staying a thing, you know, And I'm no shots to YA authors. I think they're masterful. And I love writing for ya. I love talking to, like, teens. Like, it's, you know, like, I loved having a girls magazine. I loved all of this stuff. But when it goes into, like, literary fiction, I got scared. I'm like, I'm not even like a native English speaker. You know what I mean? Where I was just like, what a book sound like. Do what? What do what do? Like, literally what a books even fucking sound like. It's like, if a person I think is a book, what even is book? I think even like the funniest funny person. It's like, if they were like, I, I with comedy. I do comedy now. I'm writing a drama. Like, they would get scared. And it's not that to say that there's a hierarchy. There is a hierarchy in terms of how the world views it, but you just get into your own head and you sit in your own audience and you're like, I just really want to write a book that I want to read or that I've never read before. And then it's like, out of here, you're going to be.

[Co-host 1]

So why did you make the decision to write a book for adults? Because the fact that teens don't read.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, actually, that's not true. Teens buy books. And, like, adults buy books too, but, like, adult. I mean, I just wanted to write about characters who maybe had fewer redeeming qualities. Like, if, like, I don't know that I would write an entire book. And not to say that Pool house. Is this about how maybe this family member is, like, up beyond redemption? Do you know what I mean?

[Co-host 2]

Unredeemable.

[Co-host 1]

Why? Like, there has to be a happy ending and everyone has.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't. That's not. That's not a rule. Like in romance, for example, a happy ending is guaranteed. That, like, defines a romance.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like the happy ending, like, happily ever after. Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Is part of you also making this transition because your audience is growing up with you?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Did you just call me old to my.

[Co-host 1]

No, no.

[Co-host 2]

The audience is getting older.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, they are. I mean, like. But it's not that. It's just like, I wanted to write about people in their 30s and 40s. Like, and ya, by definition, is like, you're not gonna sell ya. And be like, the protagonist is a 68 year old woman. You know what I mean? Like, they don't like they, they so chopped ya. Even like there's like, you know, this isn't for everybody and not for every genre, but some people are even like, why I won't read anything in third person. It's like I and me. Because otherwise understand.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, it's like unless they're in the head up display and unless they're like walking around as the avatar for this thing, it's like they don't relate.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And I don't know if that's a social media thing or what, whatever, but like, that's fascinating and that's real.

[Co-host 2]

But like they've been poisoned.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, I mean, I just think it's like their brains are different.

[Co-host 2]

So what.

[Co-host 1]

What helped you get over the jump of like. Because it sounds like you were kind of nervous to enter, like, you know, the adult.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, it was six years. It was six years and like.

[Co-host 1]

Okay. Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

A bunch of shit happened. Like fucking. I. I sold this book in Covid. Like, like, my dad got sick. He died. Like, Right. Yo, so much has happened. Like, you know, my mom was diagnosed with cancer and then six months later my dad was diagnosed with als. He died, dude. Like, they were like, he's got seven more years. It was like a year and a half.

[Co-host 2]

Crazy. Our condolences.

[Co-host 1]

That's.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. As well.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. And I say this to say that, like, it's really weird to create from a place like that.

[Co-host 2]

That a place of like everything in your life is blowing up around you.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. And where you're processing. Like, and when I was like, when I was diagnosed autistic, I was like, yo, are my characters autistic? Like, can I only write autistic? You know what I mean?

[Co-host 1]

And it's actually really interesting.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And.

[Co-host 1]

And yeah.

[Co-host 2]

What's the.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't know. But for four months I was like, I'm like sober, but I'm high because I'm like just thinking about it and then I'm like, is that something that would be mad autistic?

[Co-host 1]

Adam felt a little. Little tizzy.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think they're all tizzy. I think tizzy people write tizzy characters.

[Co-host 1]

Moon.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

High key. Yeah. Tizzy or crazy swag. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Is that from you or from your mom?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

My mom is vain.

[Co-host 1]

As. No, but who? The swag.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The swag. I feel like swag is generational. I think that I inherited it.

[Co-host 1]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Are your parents swaggy? I mean, but do they care a lot about what they look like?

[Co-host 1]

Him.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm not asking both of you. What about you?

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, of course.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Right?

[Co-host 1]

My dad grew up in New York. My mom grew up in Tokyo.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And so like, it's like a different swag. But that. That leaves an indelible mark on you.

[Co-host 1]

Facts.

[Co-host 2]

Wait, so you're just overthinking the characters for like, months at a time as you're currently in it, and you're.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm overthinking as my characters.

[Co-host 1]

Whoa.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, the whole thing is pointless as.

[Co-host 1]

How do you get out of your character's headspace space?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I. I touch grasp. Like, I mean, really though, you have to go outside.

[Co-host 1]

Did you have to. Did you. Were there any long periods of time where you put the book on the back burner? Cuz, like, yo, I can't no I

[Mary H.K. Choi]

through or strip the gears. Like, I wrote the first. I don't even know, like, tens of thousands of words like. Like multiple. Multiple. Like by the end of it, you know that T. Like use this 117 draft. Blah, blah, blah. Version 18. The was like, I had like 54. It was such a mess. And then I was in like, development hell, so I was like, writing scripts for my second book, and that was like, use version 54. Like, it was a lot.

[Co-host 2]

How do you know when you're done then? If you're on the 54th version, what's to stop you from 55?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. You like, abruptly run out of money? No, I'm kidding.

[Co-host 2]

That would do it, right?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No.

[Co-host 1]

Are the book advances for adult novels bigger than the ones for Hawaii novels?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I can't say. Like, I kind of came into Hawaii at a boom time, man, and people were coming in and like, like carpet bag. Like, people were like, acquiring. Like, everybody wanted a YA property when I came in. So, like, the books advance were one thing, but the options.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, sure.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The options are like, here, let me sit on your intellectual property for 18 months and give you, like, mortgage money.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. Dumb money.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, like dumb money.

[Co-host 1]

Damn. Well, then what Related question.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Why do you complain so.

[Co-host 1]

No, no. For the. For the author.

[Co-host 2]

Such a. If you're rich.

[Co-host 1]

For the author photo and pool house. What's the fit?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Oh, yeah, that. Actually, it might be like a Uniqlo heat tech turtleneck.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, yeah. It's a good headshot.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, but you know the rules of headshots, right? No, you gotta be touching your face, man.

[Co-host 2]

Really?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Uhhuh. Like, why? It's like it. It frames the face. It does like, everyone from like, Haruka, Haruki, Murakami. Murakami. To like, I don't know, like Louis C.K. didion. Like, someone's always got like a hand doing some work to frame a thing.

[Co-host 1]

Huh.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

You could have been smoking doors.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I really could.

[Co-host 2]

It feels like the real estate is so limited that like, you would be like, get the hand out.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's weird. I mean, it looks like it's like if you were like shooting. You know how everyone's sitting so close to each other, right? And now it's weird. Irl or someone's doing a red carpet. They're like going like this, and you're like, that's weird. It's kind of like that. You feel weird.

[Co-host 2]

You're Moon posing at the funeral for the paparazzi.

[Co-host 1]

Did your husband flick you up?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

For what?

[Co-host 1]

For your authority photo?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No.

[Co-host 1]

Oh, why not? Keeping the family your payday.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, what do you think? My husband is a photographer.

[Co-host 1]

Yes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Amazing.

[Co-host 1]

Is he not?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, but I. But you know what? I really understand taxonomically why you thought that. And I'll tell you why. He's a composer. Oh, and to me, these kind of go in the same pocket.

[Co-host 1]

No, no, no. I thought that because the first time that we ever professionally connected canceled me whatever I asked you to or I commit, or I commissioned, I don't know, had you write a profile in Ian Connor for confidence. Oh, my God.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You were the one who. Joe. Yo.

[Co-host 1]

Do you and your husband took the photos?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That was not my husband. That was my long term partner at the time. But yo, you know, whoopsie. Where is Ian Connor? And was.

[Co-host 1]

I couldn't remember Twitter.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I can't believe you're the one who assigned that. I was trying to think of this.

[Co-host 2]

He's got like 22 products in the works. So you just Google Ian Connor 22 and you'll.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I have so many pictures of him on my phone.

[Co-host 2]

Still.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Still. I just scrub that.

[Co-host 2]

You're watching.

[Co-host 1]

You're on the list.

[Co-host 2]

We stick on fashion real quick. Obviously. As a fashion nerd, I thought the fashion references were so fun from obviously.

[Co-host 1]

The.

[Co-host 2]

The really, like, impressive women's wear archive that Moon has to like the sci fi fantasy shirt that gets shouted out. How much pride do you take in, like, making sure that those references for the fashion are like, on point?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I love you guys so much. Thank you for noticing. But I mean, those things are like Easter eggs for us, right? It's like, you know, avid book readers.

[Co-host 1]

No, I mean, just like throwing fits instead of culture.

[Co-host 2]

I know.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, it's like opening cere. Tony is dropped in there.

[Co-host 1]

That's right.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And I. I do tend to do that. I think I dropped Carol in my. In the third book as well. Like sci fi fantasy. Like, Asian.

[Co-host 2]

Like.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, Jerry. Like la. Like the whole thing of it. Like, and also just kind of like, it. It makes you think about Moon is like, oh, she's not just some, like, washed up. Because you know how LA is weirdly middle America where, like, people who went

[Co-host 2]

to be absolutely fashion.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's.

[Co-host 1]

It's Ben Ball are gonna pop up in Act 3.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But it's like, you know, sometimes you. You. It's not just that they're like, you know, sauceless NPC types. It's just that, like, sometimes you're like, oh, your. Your clothes don't actually allude to anything. There's no references anywhere. And so I wanted to show you that Moon actually doesn't have a history. Like, she has, like, a little bit of, like, about her taste. Yes, Taste.

[Co-host 1]

Firegenic swag.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally. I think that's important. Important. Adam also, like, douche character, but has taste in that sort of acquired taste way.

[Co-host 2]

Or even Mac with the Brunello Cucinelli suit at his wedding. I was like, oh, that's Which.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You know exactly what type of person. Like, he.

[Co-host 2]

Yes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, he like French cuffs. Like, he's, like, slightly, like, heavyset. Like, like alcoholic, alcoholic, phenomenal dancer. Like, you. You can see the little. Like. You can see his feet. You know what I mean?

[Co-host 1]

Yeah. But he can't.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

He really can't.

[Co-host 2]

His smaller feet, I believe.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Going back to that, how many. How many re of the COVID did you go through? Do you also go through 54 drafts?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, the COVID was kind of like. The COVID began with me being like, yo, so, like, can you get. Ever get a Hockney for a cover? And they were like, right, because, you

[Co-host 1]

know, painter, author, but you can't get sued. Your painter husband draw that?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, my painter husband, photographer husband did not draw that. But it sort of began there. But then the. The art director over at McMillan, specifically at Flatiron, she. She was just like, how's this? And she came up with a lot of different versions because I was just like, I want something pooly, but I don't want it to be like. I don't want it to be too beautiful.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You know, it's not just like today's office. It's more just like a little bit like, depressing hot dog legs. I know, totally. Or like, you know, a slim club, you know, like, it's just like a different vibe. And so it's a great cover. Thank you. There was a bunch of options in that one. Like everything that's from seeming like sort of algae ridden to like that. And I was like, okay, this, I think this is great.

[Co-host 1]

Speaking of like the real estate of the book jacket front and back, how many blurbs are you waiting on right now?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That is a very good question. I have all the blurbs that I'm going to get.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And I'm really excited about them. I, I, I, I pretty much asked the people whose books I admire and a lot of them said yes, which is crazy because it means that as an author you are pausing the writing of whatever you're working on and reading someone else's whole entire book.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, sure. I didn't mean to think about that.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

How many of them were clearly chatgpt

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Nuka. They're all clawed. No, no, I mean, it's what I would say. Like there are two people, you know, know who didn't blur that I am obsessed with. And it was for very good, it was for very good reasons.

[Co-host 1]

David Foster, Walls Kill yourself.

[Co-host 2]

They were like, we don't like the book is that.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They were like, oh my God, don't even send it. No. One was like, what? One was like going back to teach and was super busy. And the other one was also like, I'm on like specific cannot blurb right now because I'm a deadline.

[Co-host 1]

And did you, did you get any blurbs that for space reasons or maybe like, it wasn't that, you know, fawning of a blurb. You like, had to. I'm like, thanks, but we're going in a different direction.

[Co-host 2]

And you're blurb. We're going different direction. They're good blurbs.

[Co-host 1]

We don't want any.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, actually, blurbs are really funny because you use them all. If maybe not on the book but like on the landing page of like Amazon or whatever.

[Co-host 1]

But I mean, you guys, bookshop.org not Amazon.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes, bookshop.org thank you for that.

[Co-host 1]

Yes.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Good looking out. Good looking out. But like, yo, like, blurbs are heavily edited. You don't see these blurbs flying around with like, ellipses. And like, it could be like saying they're.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, you could literally AI oh, you're just shortening them.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You can franken anything because it could be like, I didn't think it was so great. And then you could literally put like dot, dot, dot. Great. Yeah, you Know what I mean?

[Co-host 1]

So I think, great.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. All blurbs get used. It's just like, who would be.

[Co-host 1]

So you edit them?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, I mean, most of my blurbs ran clean, much like this podcast.

[Co-host 2]

Clean blurbs. That's a sign that. That's how you know. It's how you know who's your dream blurb blurb of all time.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, it's.

[Co-host 2]

Did you get it?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I did not get it.

[Co-host 1]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And it's funny because this person is well aware that this is my dream blurb. It's two. It's. One is Katie Kitamura. She's an incredible, incredible author. She was like, long listed and shortlisted for all sorts of awards for her latest book audition. And it's. It's phenomenal. It's like a. It's a. She's just a taught storyteller, you know, she's just fucking clean, Hemingway style. I'm just saying, she's like a. Leave her their own to me. Shout out Madonna. But, like. And I asked her and she was just like a hand. Like, I'm going back to teach. I'm super busy. Da, da da. Also, this.

[Co-host 1]

Can't read a book.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Her book did, like, so well that she was on tour for like a million years. And then I ran into her on the street because she lives in New York. And we had a hilarious sort of chat moment where I was just like, I know it's embarrassing, but, like, I just want you. I. You know, I want you. And. And. But she couldn't do it. And that was. But I, you know, I. There's like absolutely no animus. But mostly just to say that I fucking am obsessed with her. Like, I. I reread her books all the time. I'm like, her sex scenes, only her sex scenes. And I would say the other person's maybe like, Tony Tulitha Moody. Did you guys read Rejection?

[Co-host 2]

No.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Are you aware of Rejection as a book?

[Co-host 1]

I never get rejected.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

This book is so fucking funny. It's like. And you guys would love it. Like, I'm not even kidding.

[Co-host 2]

Thanks for the wreck.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm gonna read the pages enough. But it's like. It's like. It's kind of like interwoven short stories.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, yeah. Short story collection.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, short story collection. But it's. It's deeply, deeply, terminally online with so many references. And it's great.

[Co-host 2]

I'm gonna tap in this.

[Co-host 1]

It sounds like you 20, 24 short stories, just.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, I just mean it's like short

[Co-host 2]

thoughts linked together in a terminally online Brain. I got you.

[Co-host 1]

Thank you for the compliment. Political, where you're like, I need. Sure you want blurbs from the people you admire and respect, but also, like, I need, like, you know, an Oprah blurb would go crazy in terms of the marketing.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, it's also. It's weird because books like. Ah. You know, like, when you go into a promotion cycle, you start thinking disgusting thoughts. Right. Where you're like, what famous people do. I know. You know what I mean? That. Where you're like, yeah, no, I mean, there's people. Where people were would be like, I don't buy that this person with you. You know what I mean? Or. Or if it's like. If it's like an author who does not write in my genre, they're like, what the fudge did you get this person for? You know what I mean? It's. It's weird. It's like. And then it's not like you can just ask anybody. So it's not like, you know, like, an actor can be like, yo, I read this shit and I loved it. Because that means it's meaningless.

[Co-host 1]

This book is Throng Fits Approved.

[Co-host 2]

Thanks, Adrian Brody.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, it's. Meanwhile, it's Adrian Brody. So that fucking quote is like eight pages. Yeah, yeah, Totally.

[Co-host 1]

Published as a commitment. What was your favorite blurb? Who. Who gave you your favorite blurb for this book?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They're like children. I love each of them equally. No, I mean, I really do. Like, I. I deliberately asked people who I just, like, fuck with heavy. And so it's. It's really. Yeah. And, like, think of. And it's. I mean, books. Like, all of it's from authors. But, like, think about, like, if you're. I mean, do you have favorite podcasts or. Okay, maybe a better. Better direction. Your favorite design designers and, like, not even, like, known. No, not like Raph, but like someone who you, like, deeply, deeply, deeply relate to. That feels like, personal.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

What?

[Co-host 1]

They've all been on the podcast.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, but isn't it beautiful when they're all on the podcast? Aren't you. Don't you get a special thrill?

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, everybody knows the audience does, too.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Where they know that you got the person that you admire. Like, that's a beautiful moment. That's kind of what blurbs are like. Like, their fans are like. Yes, this makes sense to me. This is like a. In, like. Like, you know, are the people from Friends really Friends? It's like that moment of, like, Courtney Cox and Jennifer Aniston hanging out.

[Co-host 1]

It's nice and you're like, you're just like requesting to collab post on the

[Mary H.K. Choi]

blurb on IG all the time.

[Co-host 2]

Is it a huge audience share when you get that blurb from somebody like established that like you said, has a different audience because they write different books. Like they really do the blurbs send people your way?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes, if it's genre driven. I think that like, for example, like, like a book that I blurbed also had an Emily Henry blurb. And the, the book that I blurbed was a romance book. So Emily Henry is like, is that the guest?

[Co-host 2]

Who's that? She.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That's Lucy Foley. But, but, but in the same vein, it's like, it's huge. It's, it's airport books, right? It's like if a store is like we have a book section and they can only like have like a couple of books and they want to sell those books, like that's kind of a book they would have. And so like her fan base would be like, fuck. Like she co signed da da da da. This debut author I've never heard of. I'm copping that. That's like a must cop.

[Co-host 1]

Sweet.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But like for everyone else I think it's like, it's, it's super different. Like you never know.

[Co-host 1]

Are there any celebrity book clubs, recent phenomenon where the celeb actually knows ball or is Dua Lipa fucking capper?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Dude, Dua Lipa's fucking on it. Like shit. Like she knows everything.

[Co-host 1]

Like her editors know everything.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Listen, like all of those, those book clubs and whatever, they have book scouts so they read like a year out. Like those book clubs get decided like you better have your galleys early.

[Co-host 1]

Are you sending to like Kendall Jenner's team and Kai Gerber's team and well,

[Mary H.K. Choi]

on that note, like, books are so weird because accessories wise, they're like hotter than ever, right? You've got like coach book charms. Like Dior did those book bags or whatever. What's her Dakota Johnson and that's amazing. Calvin Klein campaign.

[Co-host 2]

Oh yeah, you're right.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, she's got a book and like the Internet's freaking out being like, what is she reading? What is she reading?

[Co-host 1]

What is that?

[Co-host 2]

What's a book?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I know, exactly. And like I just read, I just watched this movie phenomenon. It's called the Drama. It's Zendaya and Robert Pat.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, you got a, got a screener.

[Co-host 1]

They got books.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I watched it.

[Co-host 2]

Is it good?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You would.

[Co-host 2]

How's the twist? I don't know, it's crazy.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm not it does. It's not a twist.

[Co-host 2]

Really.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That's not. Everyone's selling it as a twist. It's not a twist. It is a fucking like Chekhov play level of darkness.

[Co-host 1]

It's like Booking a Act 1.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's. There's a book. The book is kind of this weird inciting act. Like incident in the front. She's reading a book. He says, oh, I like that book. This is not a spoiler. And you instantly. And he didn't read the book and you instantly understand who all these people are. Right?

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And like, it's, it's, it's so weird to me that books have this like cultural rev. Like resonance. But no one who's carrying like the Dior Ulysses bag. Like, no one's stopping that person being like. But did you read that though?

[Co-host 2]

I love Dracula.

[Co-host 1]

Poker, by the God.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But. And also like, again, the drama. There's no twist. I'll just finish the thought to say that, like, you would love it. It is the most Norwegian dark. Hilarious. Hilarious ever. He's the guy. Did you ever watch like Sick of Myself?

[Co-host 2]

Yes, I. That was crazy.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It was crazy.

[Co-host 2]

That was really good.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So it's basically this woman who takes like a flesh eating bacteria drug because her partner is getting famous. Famous. And she wants to like steal the attention on some Munchausen.

[Co-host 2]

Yep.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's the director of that. But for some reason. And he also did dream scenario that like that.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, I didn't really. The Nick Cage movie.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But the whole premise of Nick Cage shows up in everything. Cool premise. It's that guy directing Robert Pattinson and Zendaya Must see. It's. It's, it's, it's phenomenal. But you can't market that movie. And in that same way you marketed

[Co-host 2]

with the two stars.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You can. But would you. Would you have been compelled to watch this movie if I had not told you about it?

[Co-host 2]

Yes, absolutely.

[Co-host 1]

Well, he watches every movie, so that's.

[Co-host 2]

And it's on a lot.

[Co-host 1]

It's a good point.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Because it's a 24.

[Co-host 2]

Well, one. Well, how. That's how it's being marketed. 824. So I mean, I'm gonna. People are gonna see it either way.

[Co-host 1]

Come on.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But when I saw that thing, I was like, I'm a little exhausted.

[Co-host 1]

Sure.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, I'm a little Oscar out. I'm a little like, I don't know. But then I saw and I was like, nobody told me it was gonna be this movie.

[Co-host 2]

Bad title. That's the biggest issue in my bad

[Mary H.K. Choi]

title is the Book of drama. The.

[Co-host 1]

The book in the drama is.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think the book in the thing is. Is a fake book.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, they just. Oh, really?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think. I think so.

[Co-host 1]

Big moment. Big moment for books. Is that how. That's how D. Lipa and what's his name? That's how they met. Oh, stop.

[Co-host 2]

Turner.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Callum.

[Co-host 2]

Callum. The next James.

[Co-host 1]

I think he's lying, but he's like, oh, I'm actually reading the same book.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, that's right.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Oh, I do remember that your meat cute was. But that's what I mean. Like. Or like, books are totemic, but, like, around. It's like, does anyone remember what that book was? Was. Does anyone remember. You know what I mean?

[Co-host 1]

Like, it was Pool House.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It was actually.

[Co-host 2]

That'd be.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So you heard it here first.

[Co-host 1]

What are your thoughts on Kindles versus books?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I like both.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Kindle is a sundowning book. So if you're in bed, that's the Kindle for me.

[Co-host 2]

Absolutely.

[Co-host 1]

What about. We have. We talked about this. The. The performative male is this new archetype, right. That was like Rose to Promise last year. Really? But it's like, really? It's prominent males everywhere. For those with the eyes to see. What do you think of this phenomenon of mocking men who are publicly reading their books as like, oh, he's performative,

[Mary H.K. Choi]

like hot dudes on the subway kind of.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, but. But I mean, it's one thing. It's one thing if the guy's reading, like, the Emrata book. Right. And then there's another where literally there's like, photos of guys reading, like, bell hooks.

[Co-host 2]

Yes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

At a cafe or on the subway where it's like, yo, he's reading for the female gay days.

[Co-host 2]

You're not a vibe bro.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think.

[Co-host 1]

Should we be mocking them or is it. No, I think celebrating the fact that men are reading bell hooks.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think it's the same thing as, yeah, like, Audrey Lord, like, all that stuff. But, like, I think it's the same thing as, like, sincerity and, like, irony. It's like if you're, like, posing with a book because you think it's cool, but also, like, low key. You're, like, reading the book.

[Co-host 2]

I'm low key reading.

[Co-host 1]

I'm Loki.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, actually absorbing this and being like, yo, this is. This is not actually not a bad book. I think that, like, that's beautiful. Like, I don't care.

[Co-host 1]

Right.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Also, like, performative males, like, like, truly. I feel like that's like, reply guy, like, Internet squabble level.

[Co-host 2]

It's like, so not in real. You don't think it exists in real life?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think it exists plenty in real life. I mean, it's actually, like, what rejection. That book is kind of, like, based on. It's based on a short story about, like, an ally, like, performative male, white, whatever. But, like, I'm not out here being the sincerity police in this day and age. Like, we're living in an age of AI, do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like the ship has sailed in terms of like. Oh, but are they being authentic?

[Co-host 1]

How much AI did you use to write this book?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

None.

[Co-host 1]

How many times a day did you hit up the source.com?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

great question. I used to do it more until the popups got irritating.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, it is not fun to use.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's shitty to use. Yeah. And also, you know, like, how, like, search engines are broken.

[Co-host 1]

Well, they just have AI.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, well, they just have AI now, but you can do, like, you know, comma, minus AI comma, Reddit.

[Co-host 1]

No, never that. Never that.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But. But I'm saying that, like, it's like, all websites are broken.

[Co-host 1]

To me, if writing fiction doesn't work out for you.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

And we're going to get into, you know, writing. Would you take a job as writing personality prompts for AI companions?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

How much does it pay? No, a lot. I think it's like. I think. Yeah. I don't know. I. If I'm being honest, I might do it for the anthropological aspect of it being, like, research. Yeah. Like, what is. What is this? Who else are they talking to? Like, who? Like, microwave fish in the lunch cafeteria? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know.

[Co-host 1]

Oh, oh. In terms like the.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Of, like, data center is this place. And like, what is it?

[Co-host 1]

Well, it is a lot of. Of, like, people with MFA in writing.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So sad. Are they young?

[Co-host 1]

Huh?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Is it like, well, what are you

[Co-host 2]

supposed to do with an mfa?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I know, but is it just like, this whole problem where, like, it's like,

[Co-host 1]

you're gonna be a Teresa, you're gonna write personality prompts for, you know, $600,000 a year for, like, AI companions? That. What's funny is that a lot of their, you know, what they've ingested, when it does turn to, like, romance, it is very, like, romance novel, both in character. So they're very, like, burly medieval men and, like, small, you know, busty women. And then whenever they have. This is. I don't know, there's a long article where it's like, whenever they're having sex, it's Like I thrust all the way to the hilt.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The hilt?

[Co-host 2]

To the hilt, dude.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

To the hilt. I like that. The women are usually really zany and clutsy. Also like Pixie. Yeah, totally.

[Co-host 1]

Till the hilt stink, but like manic.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Pixie was also kind of like Shannon's lawman. Like there was a little bit of derangement. I feel like this is. This is a bit more real person.

[Co-host 1]

It's like. Like the princess. Princess Peaches.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes, exactly.

[Co-host 1]

With like anime tits.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Anime tits, but also like Cluty, so you know she's real, right? Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

So you could. You could do that.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I could, but I. I don't see it happening. I think I would sooner move out of New York and sell all my johns.

[Co-host 1]

Smart.

[Co-host 2]

One quick thing speaking of to the hilt, right? And performative males real quick before we move on. Okay. Your book comes out on June 9th.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

9th.

[Co-host 2]

For all the men listening, they're in public reading pool house. Can you guarantee they will get laid?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

100.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, that's actually a given. No, because there is no, like, pre order now. No. There is no, like, there is no performance to reading my book.

[Co-host 2]

No.

[Co-host 1]

What does. What a. Guys. If a guy's out there. If you see a guy out there reading pool house at, you know, at the bar, like sitting at the bar, restaurant, whatever. Like what. What conclusions can you draw or in intimations can you draw about that guy? You Mary Hhoy.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

All right, so like, I would think, you know, polysyllabic, pretty well read. Maybe. Actually. Actually. Or hasn't read a book in a while. But like dipping into books again. Yeah, but like very like I would say like good shoes. None of this like, oh, are they from out of town shoes? You know what I mean?

[Co-host 2]

Town shoes. What a dis.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And like a little bit of self awareness. Definitely. I think has a little Susan of that thing of like either single mom, older sister who is very, very like informative or like a sister somewhere. Like, you know how there's like, you know, was it girl dads?

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You know, there's like sister boys banger.

[Co-host 2]

You should trademark that.

[Co-host 1]

Well, there's. You have mom boys. I do have mother boys concept.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Which I thought was great. Not. Not those greasy Italians either.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Hey, I did not say that.

[Co-host 1]

My words.

[Co-host 2]

Italians buy books too, supposedly.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But like the, you know, mother boys are like the mouth kissing boys.

[Co-host 1]

The mouth kissing boys kiss their mom on the mouth.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

On the mouth. Oh, oh.

[Co-host 2]

They baby their mom till they're 10.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Girlfriend.

[Co-host 1]

I don't know. What are your plans to get popping on book talk.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Book talk. Not, you know, that's the whole thing. Book talk is a huge thing. And actually, like, in terms of like what you asked earlier, like, what is successful? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yo, Book talk. Having like a little viral moment and like everyone hops on it. That can move like 10, like tens of thousands of books, which is a lot for books. And so that's how it's kind of like the, you know, like Miguel, like popping off on like the sped up track or whatever. It's like that thing will just go and like the entire industry is like, what the.

[Co-host 1]

So how do you. How do you get on there?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't know. I mean, but it's like anything. It's like, has. Has any anyone, quote, tried to go viral without their soul leaving their body?

[Co-host 1]

Well, so it's like you try. When I was at a record label, it's like, how do we get popping on Tik Tok? It's like, bro, I. Is it like that at the marketing meetings at Flatiron or whatever?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, not like verbatim, but like, there is that sort of mystique out there of like, everybody wants to go viral on blah blah talk.

[Co-host 1]

And how do we do a dance to Pool House?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Oh, my God. Oh, God.

[Co-host 2]

Probably like this one, the swimming one, dude.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But actually, I did ask all my friends and I'm gonna ask more of my. So whenever they post a thirst trap, just have my pre order information. Drop the link.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. Or have the book in the. The COVID Right?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally.

[Co-host 2]

So hot people read Pool House.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think it's like that.

[Co-host 1]

I'm blanking on his name. What's the other opening ceremony guy? Why don't you get Umberto to get some of the Cat's Eye girls?

[Co-host 2]

That'll be gnarly.

[Co-host 1]

Where to do a dance while reading Pool House.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I. I could that Pool House brings all the boys.

[Co-host 1]

Brings all the boys to the bottom. Pool House.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Did you know that Kis was actually a columnist at Misbehave?

[Co-host 1]

Really?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

In the day.

[Co-host 1]

Did know that, yeah.

[Co-host 2]

When she was with Nas.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, this is after.

[Co-host 1]

Well, before. After, I thought when she was like.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, Misbehave was well after she was with Nas. Am I bugging?

[Co-host 1]

I don't know. She was with Nas, like, after, like, milkshake.

[Co-host 2]

And she was with him during that time.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Right.

[Co-host 2]

I think I thought before they were married from 05 to2010.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Oh, during. During. During. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Damn. Interesting.

[Co-host 2]

Not a great relationship, apparently.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, yeah. It's a book talk. You just Like, I mean, like, just spray and pray.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, kind of. I'm like, hopefully. But, like, I don't know. Like, how would you. How would you make throwing fits go viral on Book Talk?

[Co-host 1]

A. Oh, well, we're not trying to go viral. I'll tell you to go viral. On Tik Tok, you get Rob the snake handler to do the audiobook voices.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-host 1]

He plays Adam.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

You get like, crazy popping people. People to.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But okay.

[Co-host 2]

Sexy poppy.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

This is. This is like, the cost of doing business. It's like, does clavicular play out? You know what I mean?

[Co-host 2]

Oh, I mean, sure. Well, now, you threw his name out

[Mary H.K. Choi]

there at what cost?

[Co-host 2]

A lot.

[Co-host 1]

A lot of money. Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Because then at that point.

[Co-host 1]

And a little bit of your soul.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Why am I not just buying out of pocket all the books at, like, a retailer?

[Co-host 2]

Clavicular. Cheaper than purchasing 10,000 copies spiritually.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, this is the math. Like, I don't know.

[Co-host 1]

Right. Did you record the audiobook book yourself?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I did not.

[Co-host 1]

Is that the plan?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No. I have a very, very wonderful actor, Joy Osmanski, who does all of my books. She's Korean.

[Co-host 1]

Does she do voices?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

She. For each character, you mean? Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Who's doing the Adam chapters?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

She will be. Because I actually hate it when you. You change narrators facts. And I also hate it when, like, dudes are like. And then they do a lady. I'm like, what the.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, but.

[Co-host 1]

But double standard. She can do the dude voice.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I, you know, I was just like, I don't love it when people pitch up or down for gender.

[Co-host 2]

So she's just introducing, like, the Adam chapter and then just reading.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally.

[Co-host 2]

I mean, that's normal. That's. That is. That sounds normal.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally. Versus something where you're like, oh, like, this is disgusting.

[Co-host 1]

Like, what about. So you mentioned. You've kind of mentioned this and circled around and I'm sure. Are you still writing the script versions of your past books or are those done and dusted in?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They are pretty much done and dusted. One is not advancing. And then we're just like, I'm wondering what's going to happen with the ip Another one. It was like, in TV mode for a long time that we're thinking about turning into a feature because.

[Co-host 2]

Sick.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Everything in TVs a little bit in flux. Like, these acquisitions and stuff have been, like, so freaking tumultuous.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And like, I mean, also, like, developing in the past six years was so gnarly because it was like the writer strike. Freaking Covid. Like, like, you know, all these, like, you know, hbo, Max Max, you know, Discovery. Like, all of these things have been happening within the last, like, handful of years. So it's been really wild.

[Co-host 1]

So. So it's a safer bet to go feature movie than tv, I think.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's like you have. Depending on the sort of model that you're doing, you have, like, fewer cooks in the kitchen. However, movies are weird, too. I just had a meeting with someone. They were like, yo, I have these, like, eight a list redacted people attached to this movie. We can't get distribution. This is unprecedented. It's crazy. And we're talking, like, marquee ass, blue chips, famous movie.

[Co-host 2]

That bad?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, these are questions. I mean, knowing this producer, it's probably not, but, like, how many shitty movies are huge blockbusters? Like, it's just like a different time.

[Co-host 2]

Is the movie new IP or is it, like, franchise? Like.

[Co-host 1]

Like there's a movie podcast.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

This is a movie podcast. No, I mean, it's. It's fascinating. It's like you kind of go into, like, this situation where the person who maybe bought the IP for the pilot has to then release you. And. And so, like, they're like, okay, do what sometimes, but sometimes it's like pennies on the dollar because it's like we just want this thing to exist or we want, like, some returns on this versus it just dying on the vine.

[Co-host 1]

If Pool House or to get the movie treatment and it made through all this. Who would you want to play Stevie Moon? Adam.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Mac, this is such a good question.

[Co-host 1]

Thank you.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Honestly.

[Co-host 2]

Let's go.

[Co-host 1]

Pretty.

[Co-host 2]

You've definitely thought about.

[Co-host 1]

Pretty standard.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I have thought about it, but, like, to answer your question, I don't actually know. And what I mean by that is like.

[Co-host 1]

Mac.

[Co-host 2]

No, I was gonna say Gerard Butler,

[Mary H.K. Choi]

actually. Not bad.

[Co-host 2]

Russell Crowe, if he lost a little weight.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

He does.

[Co-host 2]

Academy Award winner Russ Crow. He's very fat right now, but he's incredible.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

How fat is he right now?

[Co-host 2]

He's huge. You didn't see nurturing. You're big. He's mad. He's.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

He's fat as now, but is he, like, method fat?

[Co-host 2]

No, he's Russell Crow fat. All the. His. All of his acting roles. He's sitting down in most of them now. Yeah, whatever.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Anyway, phenomenal actor, though. So many good Australians.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Unbelievable.

[Co-host 2]

Mel Gibson, famously.

[Co-host 1]

Mel Gibson to direct.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes, exactly.

[Co-host 2]

The passion of the pool house.

[Co-host 1]

Stevie, have you given.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Stevie, like, basically what I was saying is that I would want to cast a wide net and be like, who's that out There.

[Co-host 2]

Jenny, an unknown.

[Co-host 1]

Lisa.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Are you just gonna start naming?

[Co-host 1]

That's all I know.

[Co-host 2]

That's his first names.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't know. Like, I would want to see who. What. Like, who is capable of what?

[Co-host 1]

Chase infinity.

[Co-host 2]

No, when you're.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But that's the thing. Chase infinity is so exciting. Right? Like. Like, Chase Infinity is like, everyone's just

[Co-host 1]

like, g. Emma Stone.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

She's very good at.

[Co-host 1]

She proved she can play. She can play.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Although she, like. Did she get a facelift? Yes.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. She looks crazy. In a good way, though.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

She looks amazing. She looks amazing.

[Co-host 1]

We don't talk about women's bodies on this.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. Or their faces.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Let's talk about women's bodies some more. I love talking.

[Co-host 1]

Who would play the old haggard moon?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Old haggard moon?

[Co-host 1]

I like, 42.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I. She's, like, 46. I don't know. Like, I have dreams, obviously.

[Co-host 1]

Who. Who are they?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Lucy Liu. I've interviewed. Dude. But. And she's.

[Co-host 1]

Were you interviewed?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I've interviewed her.

[Co-host 1]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Not for this. Lucy Lou is attached. No, she's not. Who's amazing. But, like, Hong Chao. Amazing actor. Like Lawrence.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, I agree.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, and so, like, I want, like, a muscular actor in that role. And then it's the conversation of, like, but is she Korean, though? And then it just turns into a thing.

[Co-host 1]

But, like, do you have to.

[Co-host 2]

We're gonna get canceled.

[Co-host 1]

Korean actors play these people. Do you need a white guy to play Mac I.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, not necessarily. DJ Driz.

[Co-host 2]

Wait, when you're writing these characters, what are you. What are you picturing? Are you picturing, like, somebody that is known like, an actor or, like. Or they. Have you made up a composite already in your own mind?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's usually, like, a composite. Sometimes it's like, spiritual alikes where I'm like, oh, this person's kind of like, this, like, the Adam character, for some reason, has always, in my mind, been Adam Driver. Driver.

[Co-host 1]

Really?

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. Because you compare him to Gosling with the looks, right?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I did compare him to Gosling, but only when his hair was dyed blonde during a specific time in his life where he would have an eight pack airbrushed.

[Co-host 1]

He was giving a little bit of Adam New York. Adam Driver.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Well, the. The part where, like, people were, like, taping, but then again, a composite who was the guy who was, like, walking around in, like, sweatpants and, like, definitely had no underwear on. Jon Hamm. And we were, like, all zero or

[Co-host 2]

John or Thoreau too thoroughly.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Oh, yeah, Thoreau. Thoreau, too. Thoreau's a. Oh, my God. Speaking of Thoreau. You know how he's besties with, like, Amy Sedaris? They're very tight.

[Co-host 2]

Okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I just saw Amy Sedaris at the Comb store, I think, with David Sedaris and I.

[Co-host 1]

He's a huge com de garcon head.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

He is, yeah. That doesn't surprise me. Has he been on this show?

[Co-host 1]

Oh, okay.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, he was on his cousin Louis Theroux show.

[Co-host 2]

The documentary.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Like, they did a thing together and they're related, but they pronounce their last names differently.

[Co-host 2]

Well, Brits.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And so, like, Louie was talking about, like, all this, like, weird that he used to do when he was a kid. Like, he was, like, super hyperactive and, like, kind of wild.

[Co-host 2]

David Sedaris as a kid? No, Louis Thoreau as a kid.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Justin.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, Justin. Yeah, sorry, I lost the plot there. That was a test. Wow. Holy.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But Justin Thoreau, very fashionable.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Do you have sleeveless?

[Co-host 1]

Always loves a fake dive bar. Do you have a lot of LA actor friend friends?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I do.

[Co-host 1]

Was Moon. Was the Moon character. Did you. Was she like, a bit of a composite of real.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I did talk to some people about, like, fame and their relationship with it, and that was really fascinating, especially as. As you're aging, really. Things like that.

[Co-host 1]

What was, like, the biggest insight you got for that?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I just think it's like, you know, like, little things that are kind of obvious. Like, does anybody ever enjoy looking at themselves in anything? And obviously, like, they don't.

[Co-host 1]

Like, they don't rewatch their old. When they're like, no.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And then, like, how does that feel? Like, largely they do not. Unless, like, I can't even imagine the levels of, like, depression that would require.

[Co-host 2]

This was the whole Adam Driver on NPR blow up, because he literally couldn't listen to himself even.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Totally. And that was really up. It's just like, honor his process, bro.

[Co-host 2]

Like, up of Terry Gross.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, it was up of Terry Gross. Like, I. I'm like, safe driver. Free driver. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Were you specifically talking to people that were a bit like their star was fading?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

God, can you imagine? It's like, I'm. I'm like the cat who can smell cancer on a person. I'm like, listen, I want to talk to you about.

[Co-host 2]

Are you sitting down?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally.

[Co-host 1]

Gerard Butler.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, I think that every actor feels their star fading, like, all the time cycles.

[Co-host 2]

They're not an A lister, probably.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, not even just that. Like, what I mean by that is, like, you know, even if you're a list, you can only go down and, like, every moment it's like, oh, you're only as good as your last thing. Or like, and then it's like, well, why am I reading for something versus just like immediately automatically cast like and. Or like how come these people were asked to, to read and I wasn't like, that is like you on a day to day basis, I truly believe you personally know. And just like if, if your whole life is like politics and a popularity contest, like, I think that that would be really fudgeing hard.

[Co-host 1]

Did you ever find. Feel any of this, like as an author going from book to book? I mean, we joked about like, oh, I'm relevant again.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. I mean, I don't. Do you guys have this?

[Co-host 2]

Well, we, I think we don't have.

[Co-host 1]

We can't stop.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So wait, how old are you guys?

[Co-host 2]

38.

[Co-host 1]

39. 38.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Okay. Do you.

[Co-host 1]

His birthday's in two weeks.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. So I'm gonna be 39.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Do you ever think about how this might be it?

[Co-host 2]

Course I'm not for me personally.

[Co-host 1]

The podcast.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Like this, like this is going to happen forever. That's.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And, and, and you're. And this is the apex.

[Co-host 2]

And that feels every day.

[Co-host 1]

Every day is the apex.

[Co-host 2]

Do you really feel I'm being sincere? I think, I think. Well, I think it's normal because maybe because of social media and how everyone, no matter where you are in the food chain, you're going to be comparing yourself to other people because you see accomplishments thrown in your face.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Of course. But do you ever have this fantasy of ex sitting?

[Co-host 2]

Oh, sure.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And like, of selling every day. Oh, and like how that would feel.

[Co-host 2]

You're just talking about glass half full versus glass half empty, Right. In terms of your professional future, I mean, sure.

[Co-host 1]

Well, I. You're not able to sell a podcast.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, here's the thing. Or whatever that is like being acquired or whatever. Like I say, a cash out, cash out, an exit, a sellout. So like for me, it's like I'm a little bit like, yo, did I peak? And like, that's weird.

[Co-host 1]

Like, does that drive drive you or does that impede you?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

At this point it does neither. Which is so weird because I have my whole life been so ambitious and I really thought that, like. And then I'm gonna. And that because like six years ago, whatever, it's like this got option this. I was on deadline, you know, this many times in a week, you know, whatever. And then I was like, do I need a new headshot? You know, whatever. And then like I handed it. I know, like, and then that shit doesn't go. And then like, I take another job. And I like, last year was fudgeing weird. Like I had. Because of development, I had writers get guild health insurance. Fudgeing amazing. It was sick. I went to like PT and they were like, you get unlimited, you know, physical therapy. And I was like, this is nuts. And it was really, really fudgeing beautiful. But like. And no, like I did think at a certain point that like, then I'd have a movie or then I'd have a show and that show would be mine and I would be the showrunner and DA d And like, there's a big chance that could not happen.

[Co-host 1]

Is that a sign of age or slash maturity or time spent?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think it's just like I'm no longer taking it so personally on some sort of morality or hierarchy sense where I'm just like, this isn't merit based.

[Co-host 1]

Right.

[Co-host 2]

You've ascended. That's great.

[Co-host 1]

That's.

[Co-host 2]

Honestly, I envy you.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

To something basically dead. No, but like, I'm almost done. No, and I think that that also too, this idea. Idea that like books become other things.

[Co-host 2]

Yes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That's a little bit dead. I'm like, books are awesome. Like short story books are awesome.

[Co-host 2]

Like, well, the backhand and compliment I would give you real quick is that you just put out what I think is like your best work. So it's like who knows what the ceiling is for pool house. And it's not even out yet, so there's that.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, thank you so much. That's meaningful.

[Co-host 1]

Do you still shroom heavily to cleanse yourself mentally?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Actually, I do.

[Co-host 1]

What dose did we talk?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's like cake bagels. Well, actually, I have signed up to do a hero's dose before the release of this book in order to like.

[Co-host 1]

Like a journey.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, to kill my ego a little bit more in the face.

[Co-host 1]

Like you going upstate and like having a guided journey.

[Co-host 2]

Sitter?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm. Yeah, I'm doing a sitter. I'm doing a. A whole exercise. It's like a whole ass thing. Like you have to with mushrooms. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Like I, I do MDMA or just,

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what teachers I'm gonna like take instruction from on this journey. But like, I don't know what medicines I will be dabbling in.

[Co-host 1]

You ever been fun? You ever been want. You ever want to do like the, like, I don't know, ayahuasca or.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I do, but yo, the thing about ayahuasca, it just feels A little group.

[Co-host 2]

To me, this is gonna be a solo hero's journey. Straight up.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Also, you gotta.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But with a therapist. Yeah, right, okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Guided.

[Co-host 1]

Then you become the ayahuasca guy. Right? That's like, oh, man. When I'm with the shaman and like.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, but also, also, like, I wouldn't, I'm, I think I'm actually talking about it because I have some fear. The, the, and the puking. I'm like, oh, this is your defense mechanism. I think so too. Yeah, I think so.

[Co-host 1]

When you're in la, what do you miss the most about New York? The fact that it wasn't full of ayahuasca guys.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think I missed the conversation in New York. Like, LA is dope. Like, I don't know about you, but all of my friends move there. So like whenever I go to la, business style. And then also these people who are kidding when they come to New York, they stay here for 20 years, but secretly they've been LA people.

[Co-host 2]

The who the worst.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And they all go back.

[Co-host 1]

But people. Isn't the migration now? Aren't the people not only like, especially with the industries being dead, it's like, oh, the juice and the action and the energies in New York once again.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes. But a lot of those people move to Colorado. Have you noticed this? Or like North Carolina or some like, stay there.

[Co-host 1]

Damn.

[Co-host 2]

They moved to Raleigh.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Triangle little bit.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But I, I, I miss, I just, you know how like this place is just like, just bedraggled. It's like so weighted with like discourse and metadata. You know what I mean? Like, there's so much information. No, dude, it's not.

[Co-host 1]

Oh, really?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

There's like, you can, like, try to start the discourse about the discourse and the like, reaction to the discourse. We know such a weird amount about restaurants. Do you know what I mean? And I'm not saying like LA people are different, but like, by and large, like, like New York, we, we kind of know about fashion, we know about art, we know about this, we know about that against our will, kind of. Because we're all opinionated and we want to have a take punches, tune out, do drop out.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Could you? Yeah, would you?

[Co-host 1]

I'm just on tick tock, watching alone. Watching alone here, tick tocking here.

[Co-host 2]

Easy.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't know. But like in la, a little bit, like, everybody's a little too chill. But it feels to me like, like waiting. Like a friend of mine called LA Rehab, like, just the vibe there, just a waiting room. Just like, just like. And People just. I guess they just go to each other's houses and that's chill and everything. And I love parallel play. That's my. But like, in New York, parallel play, you know, when you're doing a thing and I'm doing a thing, when you're back.

[Co-host 1]

Oh, you're like, scrolling together.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

When you're scrolling just in the same

[Mary H.K. Choi]

room, peacefully scrolling together is beautiful thing.

[Co-host 1]

You did have a great observation around, like, LA homes and how there is this, like, you know, entertaining space where it's a Airbnb or a hotel lobby or an airport.

[Co-host 2]

The third space is in your actual space.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's in your actual space. Like, it's. It's like if you go to, like, a famous person's house or like a rapper's house, or like a. Like, if you're, like, in Atlanta and you're at, like, a rapper's house, the square footage is bizarre. There's just so many places. And then you're like, oh, they didn't really do this alcove. Or like a very rich person's house. It's like their fourth house is in Miami. Me. You're like, the game room isn't real.

[Co-host 1]

Like, you're in a nice Airbnb.

[Co-host 2]

They're not. They're not personal at all.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No. Or I went. I had an Airbnb in LA where the bowling alley was broken because Neo had broken it. Keanu Neo?

[Co-host 2]

Oh, not Neo. Was he throwing his fedoras around, like, Odd job?

[Co-host 1]

Did he go, I'm finished?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, Move your reference photos with him without a hat.

[Co-host 1]

Of course.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Incredible.

[Co-host 2]

I mean, if that's one way of putting. I think it, like, ruined his career.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Did it? I don't know.

[Co-host 2]

He's not.

[Co-host 1]

He also has, like, multiple wives now. He's polyamorous.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

He's polyamorous.

[Co-host 2]

Good for Neo.

[Co-host 1]

Wait, maybe I'm thinking of someone else. I think it's Neo.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Are you racist right now?

[Co-host 1]

I'm hat ised. Do you miss anything about L. A? Now that. And by the way, remember, okay, this is also coming from someone that you secretly moved back to New York.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I did secretly move back to.

[Co-host 1]

Are you still secretly living in L. A?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, I'm fully here. I own property here now.

[Co-host 1]

And you're like, hey, I'm here.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm just back. Who really needs to know?

[Co-host 1]

I know about restaurants now.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, if you moved. If you soft move to Miami, You.

[Co-host 1]

Me?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

There'd be signs.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I know, but I have a jawline. And then you move back. You're not Telling people you're like, I'm bi. Coastal, but it's not even fucking business.

[Co-host 2]

But that was two years of your life.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm saying that, like, you don't really have to announce that you've returned to New York.

[Co-host 1]

That's a lot of people. A lot of narcissists would be like, I'm back.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That's like people who quit Instagram. I'm like, oh, right.

[Co-host 2]

I'm letting you know.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was waiting for bated breath. Let me set my calendar.

[Co-host 1]

Do you miss anything about Los Angeles?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I do. I miss specifically.

[Co-host 1]

You can't say the weather.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I actually wasn't going to. I missed the food. The thing I miss miss most about L. A is I think they have phenomenal strip mall shitty, like sub$20 an entree food. I think New York. I think I really struggle with. With entrees in New York restaurants.

[Co-host 2]

Entree, like price, the.

[Co-host 1]

The. The concept, the size.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The concept, the price, the size, the midasness compared to the absence zerts. Like, I think like, you go to like a mid but delightful New York restaurant. Like an Odeon, right? Like we're. We're rezike, I sing, We're Carolyn Bissette Kennedy, right. Insanely mid. However you pull up, you get a Martin zucchini, you get a freeze a salad. Oh, Lardon. Your friend gets a French onion soup. You split fries. And then you get a hot fudge sundae for dessert. That is a girl dinner. High caliber meal.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Girl dinner or restaurant dinner?

[Co-host 2]

Sure.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Do you know what I mean? Because if I added like the stego prov. Am I really like cooking like that?

[Co-host 2]

Well, theirs isn't that bad, but I

[Co-host 1]

get what you're saying.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

So don't do that.

[Co-host 2]

You described Balthazar to me to a T. Right. Odeon is better than you're giving credit

[Co-host 1]

for, I think, but I get it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Is the Korean food light years ahead in. In la?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think it's light years ahead insofar as what you can get. So, like, you can go to a restaurant and all they do is like a type of raw soy sauce based crab. That's all they do. They do like three things. And so like the thing that hits is like it's dialed in. Or like the one place that only has like little pork chops on a sizzling thing and like this thing called. Which is just like rice, like a ton of veggies. Meat, meat. Like bone broth. It's so good. And they do those things incredibly well.

[Co-host 1]

Is that gut that's how it works in Japan. Is that how it works in Korea too? Where a restaurant is like very specialized.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, the thing about Japan that is unbelievable is that the yen is still very, very weak. So like it's getting stronger though. It is getting stronger. Or is it just the American dollar is eating globally?

[Co-host 2]

Bingo can be true.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, yeah, well, in Japan you go and the Tonkatsu guy is. It's like owned and operated. He's been doing this for a thousand years. He's like dialed the in. There's like, it's like a 12 top and you're in and out. It's like $6. And it was phenomenal. Yeah, like you kind. You. You do have that in Korea. I think that. But like Japan, you know how like Japan's like TikTok to and you can't really go to Kyoto anymore.

[Co-host 1]

I haven't been since it got TikTok the fuck.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But yeah, or like you go like vintage shopping Japan now and it's just seas of like Chanel bags maybe is about it. Yeah, yeah. But like I feel like Korea, like you go to like trendy places and it's like there's like cheese and everything for some reason. You know what I mean? It's like that sort of viral vibe. But there are obviously lots of incredible things that. To answer your question. Yeah, it's kind of like things like that. And I think L. A has more of that shit than New York does. Does.

[Co-host 1]

But that's also a space thing in real estate thing, right?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Also I don't go to Queens and that's my problem. Yeah, that's where I up.

[Co-host 2]

You soued yourself.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, yeah, I just really did.

[Co-host 1]

Damn. What are you reading right now, Mary?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I am reading a short story book by Rachel Kong called my dear. You.

[Co-host 1]

You love short stories.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I'm actually getting into them because I think they the blurbs of fiction, I think they're the reals.

[Co-host 2]

Wow, dude. Short form, content. You feel Holy shit.

[Co-host 1]

Your attention Spanish binge. Like how to had a flip switch since you. I don't know. In like recent years as social media consumed our lives.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Are you calling me old to my face? No. I mean it's. I think so more than anything else. I think that my internal, internal metronome needs different shaped things like I want. I would, I would watch a short. I would watch a movie, I would read a short story. I would read a whole novel. Like I need small, medium, large right now. That's where I'm at.

[Co-host 1]

I do appreciate in pool House. And in all books where there are. Where they're chapterized or there's sections. Chapters or like no section breaks for mad long. It's like when the. Can I tap out to check my phone or go to sleep or something?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That's really fair. And like there's certain books out there that feel a bit like scrolling. Either it's like stream of consciousness wise or there's just something to that pacing where like I'm like, damn, was that like a 7,000 word chapter? And I get kind of spun out as well.

[Co-host 2]

Pacing is super important, I think. Like with Pool House, to me it's like, it's right. Maybe it's my broken brain or the fact that I don't read, but it feels digestible and like, okay, like here's the chapter. Obviously the character is. Is like stated who you're reading and it's take a break.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's kind of perfect. I think that you have to be oriented. However, I don't want it to be that thing. Like, you know how they were on like Netflix, they will repeat dialogue because it's a fourth screen experience or whatever. I don't want to do that in books. But low key. I. I'm like, hey, listen, I know that six months may have passed since you last picked this book up. Yeah. Like it's.

[Co-host 1]

I have issues with my mother.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Every chapter.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Are you on Goodreads? Is it like. And, and why hasn't Goodreads kind of, I don't know, popped off the way like Letterbox has or kind of transcended into the mainstream?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I. Well, I don't With Letterbox because someone literally said it's. It's the Goodreads for movies.

[Co-host 2]

I was like, because you hate Goodreads.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't hate it. It's just. Just like I also don't read Amazon reviews of random products that I buy.

[Co-host 2]

Like, oh, well, that's. What about.

[Co-host 1]

Of your own shit?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, I have. Who amongst us? But like, I guess like, Goodreads is really fucking great for people to recommend books to each other. I think that's beautiful. I think that's amazing that you have communities like that that you have like, you know, like an archive of our own, like AO3, like fanfic communities. I think all communities are fucking dope. Dope. Like, but I also with Reddit and that's like, people hate that or love that. I don't know.

[Co-host 2]

Brutal. Dude, that's even. That's cess.

[Co-host 1]

Like, wait, you go on Reddit for like book like, book.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No. Books. No. For, like, our. Everything.

[Co-host 1]

Oh.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Are literally everything. But I say this to say that, like, I think. I don't know why Goodreads. Like, I don't know that Goodreads is as, like, spreadoutable. You know how, like, letterbox is, like, shareable. Letterbox feels more shareable to me, maybe.

[Co-host 1]

Well, Goodreads, to be on there one, you have to be reading, so you have to be kind of like a smart person. And letterbox, you don't have to be smart because it's just movies.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And I think actually letterbox prizes brevity. So it's, like, shorter.

[Co-host 2]

Yes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. And I think Goodreads is a little. Oh, man. I feel like I'm like, am I accidentally talking about Taylor Swift? And I don't know it. But, like, Goodreads is a little bit like that Yelp guy.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Where it's like. Let me tell you about, like. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

What's the tldr, bro?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, it's just. There's a lot.

[Co-host 1]

Where do you get your book recommendations when you want to find something to dig your teeth into?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Other people for sure.

[Co-host 1]

Like, other book homies.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Other book homies.

[Co-host 1]

But also, like, it's really interesting being authors, I guess.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, not necessarily. It's a little, like, DJing, though. Like, if I was to, like, recommend a book to you guys, I would not recommend the same book to you guys. You know what I mean?

[Co-host 2]

Super personalized.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Super personalized.

[Co-host 1]

Making a playlist for someone.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Totally. So, like, if I'm like, oh, this person knows me in an interesting way, and they're hella smarter than me, then I'm with whatever book they. And it's especially if someone who you respect put you up on something that you've never heard of and that person had, like, a lot of. You'd be like, great. Like, I'm gonna dig into this author who has 812 books.

[Co-host 1]

Recommend a book to each of us right now. Damn.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Okay. I would rec. Well, I did rec. I definitely recommend Tony to Ly's rejection for you. And for you. I actually have a different one because you're secretly so much more emo. Yeah. It's a book called Heart the Lover by Lily King. You.

[Co-host 1]

No.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, actually, I think. I think you would love it. It's.

[Co-host 1]

What's it about?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's about, like. It's about friendship over many, many generations. It's about kind of a love triangle angle. No, it's not a second. It's actually like, a pretty slender read. And nothing about the COVID would have you interested in it, but you know how, like, what's it called?

[Co-host 1]

Heart the what?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Heart the Lover. I will. I will send you a link.

[Co-host 1]

It's like a Juice World song.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Oh, my God.

[Co-host 1]

Rip Juice 2025. All right, just dropped it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Just dropped.

[Co-host 2]

Hot off the presses. It does look very skinny.

[Co-host 1]

Love and Friendship. It's Love and Friendship 4.3 on Goodreads.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I genuinely believe very few other people would ever recommend this book to you, but I still say this with all the conviction in my heart.

[Co-host 1]

All right, I'll give it a shot. Bookshop.org what substacks are you with right now? And how many subsequents do you subscribe to that you don't read?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I guess I read a lot of substack. I do not pay to subscribe.

[Co-host 2]

Sure.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So I will hit up a person and be like, yo, can you just give me, like, gift me. Gift me. And I. I will gift other people,

[Co-host 2]

like, oh, you've pinned. Paid forward.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, because I'm a little bit like, yo, Like, I mean, I'm a little bit like, I really don't know how many more subscriptions I can afford.

[Co-host 2]

Sure.

[Co-host 1]

They add up.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They really do. Like, I do. I play that game of, like, peacock. No, Peacock. Like, for me to have that game across substacks, I think it's.

[Co-host 2]

What is that Peacock? The streamer.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's the streamer.

[Co-host 2]

Well, you need that for the Bravo show, so to me, peacock is always green light.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, peacock is like, okay, how. How into traders do I want to get? You know what I mean?

[Co-host 2]

Scary.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

That's the thing. It's like, do I want to open that Pandora's box? But similarly with sub sex, it's like, you know, like, I love magazine like Laura Riley, but I actually can't read it because it opens too many tabs for me.

[Co-host 1]

Oh.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Like, I'm like, oh, if I want to fall into, like, a hole of needing to buy, like, six belts, like, I don't. Like, sometimes I'm. I don't need that headspace.

[Co-host 2]

I guess that's why it's good that hers is not paywalled and it's all affiliate link money. Because, like, you do just ultimately read that and want to spend. Spend.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You just want to spend, and it's so good at that. And I'm really actually kind of interested in high touch, like the one about peptides and longevity or whatever. I'm like, that's interesting to me. I love Fast and loose. Like, my friend Yasi Solic, she has bands playing. Like, she's great. Like conversational. I'm like, did she go to London? She did great. What did she eat? Like, I love that.

[Co-host 1]

I love, like monetizing your diary. Do I monetizing your diary? Your calendar, I guess.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Totally. I love, I love Feed me. I love Emily Sundberg. Like, I like to know. Know these things about like, who changed their cookie plate.

[Co-host 1]

Get your book in there, sales go up.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, I sent the book to her.

[Co-host 1]

All right.

[Co-host 2]

But cross for you, you gotta, you

[Co-host 1]

gotta send it to a college intern that aggregates things for her.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And also she works incredibly hard. But I, I think substack is like Old Stir by Sarah Vaughten. Like great personal essays.

[Co-host 2]

It's.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

There's. There's so much good stuff in there. And I think primarily right now I'm using it as, as like my main social media.

[Co-host 1]

Are we seeing authors because we talk about, you know, or there's a lot of discourse about like, you know, media writers and journalists migrating substack. What about authors migrating substack?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, someone said to me that writers being on subex is like actors being on, like becoming like Uber drivers. Like they're sub.

[Co-host 1]

Or like on cameo.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

On cameo. Or there's something optically a little depressing

[Co-host 2]

something about it, but you use it to great effect.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, I. I like it because it defetishizes writing. Like if you are working on a book, say that's like three years, it's like however many hundreds of thousands of words or whatever or like a hundred thousand words. That's like big game hunting. And sometimes you're like, I just want a snack. Or like, I just want to like squirrel. Yeah, just like apps or desserts. Yeah, Absorbs. So that's what the sub stack is. It's just like a little bit of writing where it's like lower stakes. Do it.

[Co-host 1]

Is it pay walled?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It is pay walled. However, it's really weird. Like if you pay wall, you get more subscribers.

[Co-host 1]

People want what they can't have.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They really.

[Co-host 2]

It's really the luxury of having a good substack.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes. But also it's like if I don't pay wallet, I don't get new subscribers. But every time I pay wallet, I get more paid and unpaid subscribers.

[Co-host 1]

There you go.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's really. They. They're not wrong about that.

[Co-host 1]

Like maybe people have opted into paid when it's unpaid. Then you hit. Hit them with the paywall. You're oh like oh, shit charged.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But there's a point at which like I'm like a little bit wondering if have the paywall, but comp everybody.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, interesting.

[Co-host 1]

So it's like, pay. Pay if you want.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Pay if you want. But mostly it's walled, right?

[Co-host 2]

It's club.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's a club, but, like, you don't have to pay money for it. I'm thinking about it.

[Co-host 2]

You could. You could close it off.

[Co-host 1]

You could get your community zero dollars.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Pay walls. Because Substack D sort of prioritizes newsletters that are unpaid because they get a cut.

[Co-host 1]

Right.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

So it's like, I'm, like, wondering about the back end on that, like, where I'm like, how does this actually work?

[Co-host 1]

I don't know. Make a bet on Polymarket, which apparently is in bed with Subsack.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Now I know.

[Co-host 1]

How much money. How much money do you make across all your endeavors?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's real feast or famine. Like, certain years. Like, my accountant's like, hey, are you okay?

[Co-host 2]

Are you alive?

[Co-host 1]

Proof of life with the stick.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Well, they're like, I charge. I know you're alive because. Because you're just, like, hemorrhaging money and nothing's coming in. However. But. And then there are some years where I'm, like, around. I'm. I need to buy property.

[Co-host 2]

Right?

[Co-host 1]

Like, where not only my life, I'm living. Sounds very nice.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, it's. It's.

[Co-host 2]

But it does work for you or he.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's. It's hard. It's hard, though, like, because certain years

[Co-host 1]

are like, how do you plan for that? Or you just kind of live year to year.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You plan from, like, a scarcity mindset, like a goddamn immigrant who has to go to the mattresses. Like, you plan, man. Like, it's ingrained in you. You. You're like. Your friend's like, let's have dinner. And you're like, I don't pay to hang out. You know what I mean?

[Co-host 2]

Wow. I don't get out of bed for less than a band.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No. Or you're just like, I'll take a walk in the park. It is minus 12 degrees, you know?

[Co-host 1]

More tea? Can I get more tea? More hot water?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

More hot water. Yeah, it's more hot water days. And it's. It sucks, kind of.

[Co-host 1]

But when you're feasting.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

When you're not. When it's not. Boomer. Busted. When it's booming. Well, getting matcha.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, like, Rocky's matcha. Oat milk.

[Co-host 2]

Shout out, Rocky.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, it's more just that, like, I'm constantly like, more hot water, please.

[Co-host 1]

Really? Even when you're sitting. When you're sitting pretty in the.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Or I lose my mind and I'm like, I'm gonna buy like a piece of furniture that's like 26,000. You know, like it's, it's just, it's.

[Co-host 1]

You got to get off magazine.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's dumb. But like it's, it's an investment. It's an investment. No. Or. But it, it, I, I do wish I had a better relationship with money where I'm like constantly like spending on things that return dividends because it brings me such joy. Instead I'm sitting around being like, I can't, I can't get a new rug that I really love for years. And you know what I mean? It's weird.

[Co-host 1]

Damn.

[Co-host 2]

How.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

What is your relationship to money?

[Co-host 1]

It's great.

[Co-host 2]

I like spending it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You don't get like a little tingle of like, what's your savings ratio? Like what's your investment portfolio?

[Co-host 2]

I'd rather not talk about it.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Really?

[Co-host 2]

No, we don't plan it for the future.

[Co-host 1]

Talk about money is very ghost.

[Co-host 2]

And guess what? Not having kids.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Come household.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

We're in a privileged situation just, you know, based on the fact that we did not decide to procreate.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. That does really privilege your choice making. And that's a part of it. Like I can be an artist before selfish because like I, I don't got to pay for school, man.

[Co-host 2]

Bingo.

[Co-host 1]

Or summer camp in Korea or like orthodontia.

[Co-host 2]

Sure.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Teeth.

[Co-host 1]

If we, if this book is a bestseller, are you gonna do like, are you gonna make a dumb purchase or like do you have something you got your eyes on?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think I'm gonna buy a watch.

[Co-host 1]

Let's go. What are you thinking?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's kind of dumb, but it's. You know, I was really thinking about the watch I wanted most when, when I was a teen, I grew up in Hong Kong and like Hong Kong, there's nothing to do but shop, right. Or eat. That's heavy on a fucked up thing to say. But like basically like there is a. This whole cachet and like buying designer shit is glamorized. So when I was like 12, I just wanted a Max Marico and a Cartier Tonk tank francaise. Like that's all I wanted. And now they're really guys saying, and they're so much more expensive. And I'm like, you know what do I just buy one Even though I know it's not going to go down, they're not going to get less expensive.

[Co-host 2]

It's that investment mentality again. If you want to justify.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But it does feel like very like 90s me. Or like 80s, you know, that's who

[Co-host 1]

you do it for.

[Co-host 2]

They ask her what she does and who she does it for.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But I might get. I. I might get the Louis with the. The leather strap, because I do think that's kind of a daily driver in a different way. It. Very older. It's. It feels book. Book, like.

[Co-host 2]

Yes. It feels like.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Literally, it's like tweed.

[Co-host 1]

I'm like a Y A authors Peep the wrist.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Bling, bling.

[Co-host 1]

And getting this watch money as an adult.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Besides, like, having this immigrant mentality, what's the brokest behavior you've ever, you know, had to partake in as. As a grown person? A grown human?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, I would characterize when I was in my late 20s, which I would still characterize as grown, or you think you're grown at that point. And I had started a magazine, Misbehave. You get so much free that you can't really use. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But it's like. It's like, like 20 pairs of cheap Mondays or like, just like a weird amount of, like, energy. Vodkas. Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Sparks.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Well, I actually once got like, two cases of Nouveau.

[Co-host 1]

Did you ever get Cream the. With a Q? The fro?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yes.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. But that was that whole era. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

You get Scissor. The purple.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

The purple drink was Scissor. The purple drink. An actual made drink called Scissor. And it wasn't just Prometheus. Oh, they brand.

[Co-host 2]

It was a branded drink.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I don't remember a. Oh, no. I remember the typography now. The Z's were like.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, it was a lor. I had an interest.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Was it a frosted bottle?

[Co-host 1]

Yes.

[Co-host 2]

Like, it was.

[Co-host 1]

It was first a partnership done with first with Dipset. They backed out and Mop, weirdly, was the second partner.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Wow.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah. Straight up brands. I was an interview.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I forget. At your weird, like, street teamy team of your day. Days.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And your labelier days.

[Co-host 2]

That was a rite of passage for every New York kid. What street team were you on?

[Co-host 1]

Stapling up posters on 21st street outside of Cheetah Club.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Wow. W. Or Club Cheetah?

[Co-host 1]

Club Cheetah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

Put some respect on Club Cheetah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I think that just the broker is just like, selling all the, like, the free you get.

[Co-host 1]

Where do you sell it, though? Back in, like.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I mean, ebay still existed. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Is there anything you currently refuse to spend a lot of money on on besides hanging out with your friends?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I only parallel. I Think. You know what? I do think, and this is fucked up because I'm a restaurant kid, my parents owned restaurants and like I love people in the food, like food and beverage space. I think like fucking salt of the earth people. Really talented fudgeing people. What I don't fudgeing like is like, oh, this fudgeing asshole paid 700 whatever for like their annual fee on their fucking coffee card so they can get the reservation. Like I hate the blood sport of fine dining in this town. And that's something that I kind of refuse to participate in regularly.

[Co-host 1]

Like MX buying resi and G. Yeah. The first 10 nights of the NOMA pop up for their like platinum.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Diamond whatever.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And then you go in and it's the most swagless ever. Like the. I will never.

[Co-host 2]

It always is.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Always is like the conversation you have to endure for your nine hundred dollar sushi show omakase from some fucking dipshit private equity motherfucker next to you.

[Co-host 1]

Like people that are buying their place at the cool kids table.

[Co-host 2]

Yes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

And I think that that's the shit like that is just reprehensible and kind of like the demise of this town, like just this, the rampant, like just swag saucelessness.

[Co-host 1]

Like is that New York specific?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Don't you think so? Don't you think the amount of money flooding this town is like shitty? Like, yeah, it's like that there's no

[Co-host 1]

money in LA swag. I think it's New York that scars.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Subway take where he was like breaking

[Co-host 1]

down like other VC restaurants.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You feel that in the atmosphere, man.

[Co-host 2]

Real blood suckers for sure.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. And like weirdly, yo, I would rather not know.

[Co-host 2]

I'd rather not know.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Same. But it's New York, so you know. Yeah, but how many times have you gotten in a conversation with someone who's like entire like is like neutral, right? Where you're like, I can't read what this is, but it could be good.

[Co-host 1]

I don't know, like you, why don't you just not talk to them?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Whatever. You're like, they're like married to your friend or whatever and you're talking that friend.

[Co-host 1]

That's why I don't hang out with them.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But like how many cool people are married to NPCs because they're paid like everybody.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, that's. Well, some people want to marry for money, not love.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But a lot of people yacht girls

[Co-host 1]

getting shit on in Dubai.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, no, I'm just saying, like they don't hang out with them and you don't really Hang out with their partner because it's apples and oranges but that's set up well.

[Co-host 2]

Red flag is if you do have a couple cool. Let's just say acquaintance that you're getting to know or something. And the spouse or the partner never around. Doesn't really come up. That's like maybe a red flag. That person is boring. AKA money.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Or like bitcoin and like. Or. But then sometimes you get into these conversations with that guy and like it takes like 20 minutes.

[Co-host 2]

Or girl.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Or girl.

[Co-host 2]

Or they.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Or they. And it takes 20 minutes and you're like oh shit. You work at whatever. And you're like I hate you. You're my mortal enemy. But for 20 minutes you pretended to share interests with you.

[Co-host 1]

I'm the liaison between polymarket and substance.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah, totally. Where it's some real like I'm ending creativity as we know it.

[Co-host 2]

People are getting good at that because like I think they. Whether or not they're self aware and can sense that animosity. It seems like people are again like trying to. They know. They know that they're kind of trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I feel like they should wear a

[Co-host 1]

little belt but at the same time

[Co-host 2]

like some like a.

[Co-host 1]

Like a number something on their. Like a badge on their little star.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

What excuse Like a fit like a

[Co-host 1]

little star in there chest something. Don't do you think though. And I. I made this point with private clubs where it's like yo, have the private clubs go be losers over there so that we can like maybe reclaim a little bit of over here. Where it's like as. As.

[Co-host 2]

As.

[Co-host 1]

As the.0001%. You know you guys separates themselves even further. The what percent 000 69% great. Like go over there. Have your ultimate ever.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Just go there. They're. They're not like oh we live in this like little cordon off area area. Blah blah blah.

[Co-host 1]

They like they move to Larry Ellis's island. I hope they.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But they. They. They have like a suare. They. They get all like up in the. In the mix.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah. It's called Williamsburg dude.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Williamsburg is virtually unrecognizable.

[Co-host 2]

It's a bummer shop.

[Co-host 1]

It's Soho.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It is a bummer. Like the fact that I have to traverse Soho to like get to so many places is like the weirdest thing. Wait.

[Co-host 1]

Cuz I. Williamsburg is Soho or Soho? Soho.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Soho. Actual Soho.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

I think Williamsburg is the worst now

[Mary H.K. Choi]

is Williamsburg feels more techie. Soho feels more like Euro.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. Exactly.

[Co-host 1]

Proper can be. It Empties out at night because it's just tourists. Yeah, it empties out at night, so at night, it's actually not bad. And it is still beautiful.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Soho in the morning before all the opens.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, that is really nice.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Really nice. Very, very fire.

[Co-host 1]

So there's still hope.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

New York. But are you guys staying here forever?

[Co-host 1]

Yeah, probably.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

You seem like someone who would around and, like, move somewhere real sunny all the time.

[Co-host 1]

Hell, no. I don't like. I don't like the. I don't like being hot. My. My family's here. My parents are here.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Oh, your family's here? Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

So you move to Jersey?

[Co-host 2]

No, no, I moved here to be here. Same with my wife. So why we.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Why would you ever. Yeah, why would I leave?

[Co-host 2]

This was the. This was always for me, the dream, the destination. Yeah, well, the dream, I mean, but destination.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Where do you. What neighborhood do you live then?

[Co-host 1]

Oh, this will be good.

[Co-host 2]

Clint Hill.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Okay.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

The joke is that it's Clinton Hill Bedside, like, right on the line. So depending on who I'm talking to, I can give them a different answer. And I do. But you, Clint Hill.

[Co-host 1]

Depending on how much melon is in their skin.

[Co-host 2]

Right by Pratt.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Yeah. Yeah, right the By Pratt.

[Co-host 1]

Right by Vegan Bakery.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah. If someone else, it would be do or die Bed Sty.

[Co-host 1]

Mary, before we get you out of here, do you have any constructive criticism you'd like to give us?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

For you guys? Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

It's been two hours. What do you think?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, this is. Is, like, you guys are paradise, as always.

[Co-host 1]

We got a.

[Co-host 2]

Like, Hong Kong.

[Co-host 1]

Wait, you got something to say? You got something to say?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

No, I mean, the dynamic is dialed in, you know? Like, the thing is, like, I've done this podcast twice. Officially. Once, unofficially, when we were Fail Gang.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, true.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

But, like.

[Co-host 1]

And then once over Zoom, It's.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's been. You guys are so di. Like, you're. You're very good. I mean, even that you matched your palettes.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah, that is.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's very good.

[Co-host 2]

It did happen for anyone not paying.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Also, like, there's still so much joy and discovery in this.

[Co-host 1]

Well, that's because the guest.

[Co-host 2]

No, but that's all you, sweetheart.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

I feel like there's still a lot of curiosity, which I think is, like, the thing that you can.

[Co-host 1]

We only invite people on that we actually want to.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Would enjoy spending two hours with.

[Co-host 2]

If your book was asked, you would not be here.

[Co-host 1]

No, if your book was asked, you'd still be here. But if someone else. If someone else had a fire book, but they suck.

[Co-host 2]

They would not be here. True, true, true.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, that means a lot to me.

[Co-host 1]

Good news. The book is not asked.

[Co-host 2]

Nope.

[Co-host 1]

Mary, the floor is yours. What do you want to tell the kids about Pool House? Where can they follow you?

[Mary H.K. Choi]

They can follow me on everything at Choi to the World. Ch. Oi to the world Pool House, June 9th. Very. It's. The thing is, it's like. Everyone's like, ah, it's so dark. Da da. But it's. It's hysterical. It's funny the way life is.

[Co-host 1]

Right? Book of the summer.

[Co-host 2]

I think it's. It's really the most enjoyable book I've read in a long time, which is not saying much.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

It's the only.

[Co-host 2]

But it's. But it's the truth.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Well, thank you so much.

[Co-host 2]

Oh, and also. Maryhkchoy substack.com oh yeah.

[Mary H.K. Choi]

Maryhk Choi substack.com Forgot there was a camera here the entire time.

[Co-host 2]

That's the point.

[Co-host 1]

That's a. It's good. Mary, thank you for coming on to the only podcast matter. Chef, take us out.