Podcast Summary: Thru the Bible with Dr. J. Vernon McGee – Revelation 21:19-21 Date: March 31, 2026 | Host: Jason Collins (featuring Steve Schwetz and Dr. J. Vernon McGee)

Episode Overview

This episode of Thru the Bible continues the deep exploration of Revelation 21, focusing on verses 19-21 and the vivid biblical description of the New Jerusalem. Dr. J. Vernon McGee guides listeners through the symbolism, size, and beauty of the heavenly city, examining its foundations made of precious stones and pondering its structure and their spiritual significance. The tone is devotional, scholarly, and warmly encouraging, aiming to bring listeners hope and wonder as they contemplate heaven.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Encouragement and Ministry Updates

(00:17 – 05:00)

• Steve Schwetz welcomes listeners, encourages engagement, and shares touching letters from listeners around the world (Iraq, Romania, and Virginia) about how Thru the Bible has impacted their spiritual lives.
  • Example: “This journey through the Bible has drawn me closer to the Lord and strengthened my walk with Him.” – Listener from Iraq (02:22)
• Steve highlights the transformation God's Word brings and invites listeners to join the World Prayer Team.

“God’s word is so beautiful and it really does change lives and we get to participate together.” – Steve Schwetz (03:30)

2. The New Jerusalem: Description and Measurement

(05:00 – 15:30)

• Dr. McGee teaches on the specifics of the New Jerusalem as described in Revelation 21.
  • Dimensions: 12,000 furlongs (approx. 1,500 miles) per side—making the city immense in size.
  • Shape Debate:
    • Some commentaries see it as a cube; others (like Dr. Ironside) suggest a pyramid. Dr. McGee suggests it is best imagined as a cube inside a sphere, with an internal dimension of 1,500 miles and an external circumference of about 8,164 miles.
  • Comparison: This would make it even larger than the moon.

“Anything God does, he sure does it in abundance...with a lavish hand he garnished the heavens with stellar bodies. Now, this city bears the trademark of its maker, the Lord Jesus, the carpenter of Nazareth.” – Dr. McGee (09:00)

• Visualizing Living Inside the Sphere:
  • Unlike Earth, where we walk outside, in New Jerusalem Dr. McGee imagines we will “walk on the inside” of this crystal sphere.

"The Lord had to make the law of gravitation to hold us on Earth or we'd be flying out in space. Now, this one will be a city in which you walk just the opposite of the way you walk [here]: here you walk on the outside, there you’ll walk on the inside.” – Dr. McGee (12:50)

3. The Foundations and Apostolic Significance

(15:31 – 20:30)

• Twelve Foundations: Each foundation bears the name of an apostle and is composed of a unique, precious stone.
  • Spiritual Significance: Reflects the apostles’ integral role in the church, echoing Ephesians 2:20 and Acts’ focus on apostolic authority.
  • Dr. McGee’s stance: Paul, not Matthias, is the 12th apostle following Judas, given that Matthias was chosen before Pentecost and never mentioned after, unlike Paul.

“It’s not honoring to scripture to minimize the importance of the twelve apostles. In a real sense, they were the foundation of the church. To them the Church shall be eternally grateful. And this is not to rob Christ of his place, for he is the chief cornerstone.” – Dr. McGee (18:30)

4. The 12 Precious Stones and Their Symbolism

(20:31 – 22:40)

• Dr. McGee lists and describes each stone, its color, and relative symbolic meaning:
  • Jasper (clear/diamond)
  • Sapphire (blue)
  • Chalcedony (greenish/agate)
  • Emerald (green)
  • Sardonyx (red/white-red layers)
  • Sardius (fiery red)
  • Chrysolite (golden yellow)
  • Beryl (sea green)
  • Topaz (greenish yellow)
  • Chrysoprase (golden green/leek colored)
  • Jacinth (violet)
  • Amethyst (purple)
• These symbolize “a galaxy of rainbow colors,” reflecting God’s glory and the city’s unimaginable beauty.

“Light is a requirement for color. Where there's no light, there's no color... Now, the New Jerusalem is a city of light and a city of color. God is light, and he's there.” – Dr. McGee (22:10)

5. The City of Light—Theological and Sensory Impressions

(22:41 – 24:11)

• Dr. McGee connects physics and theology, explaining how the city will refract light in an array more dazzling than any rainbow on Earth.
  • The city as a “gigantic prism,” emanating divine light through its jewel-laden foundations.
  • Christ, the “light and power company,” will illuminate the universe.

“The New Jerusalem is there. The light shining from within through the Jasper stone acting as a prism would give every color and shade of color in a rainbow, acting as a prism. But it would give every color and colors that you and I hadn't even thought of yet or couldn't even dream of.” – Dr. McGee (23:10)

• McGee closes with an invitation to marvel at this vision while acknowledging his interpretation may differ from other commentators.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Abundance and Divine Craftsmanship:

  “God is creator and can never be accused of stinting, economizing or doing things that reveal littleness.” – Dr. McGee (09:00)

• On the Heavenly City Structure:

  “I think these are the measurements. In other words, it would give you a sphere in space...a cube that touched all the spheres.” – Dr. McGee (11:00)

• On the Apostles:

  “To them the Church shall be eternally grateful. And this is not to rob Christ of his place, but for he is the chief cornerstone.” – Dr. McGee (18:30)

• On Light and Color:

  “A rainbow after a summer shower gives only a faint impression of the beauty in the coloring...It's going to light up God's new heavens and new earth as they've never been lighted before.” – Dr. McGee (23:30)

Important Timestamps & Segments

• 00:17 – Listener testimony and encouragement
• 05:00 – Dr. McGee begins teaching on Revelation 21: description and dimensions of the New Jerusalem
• 11:00 – Dr. McGee proposes the cube-in-sphere model
• 16:45 – Discussion on the apostles and their names on the foundations
• 20:31 – Listing and explanation of the twelve precious stones
• 22:41 – Description of light, color, and the city as a prism
• 24:11 – Conclusion and invitation to further study

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rich, imaginative, and scholarly look into the meaning behind the New Jerusalem’s description in Revelation. Dr. McGee’s approach blends scriptural analysis, theological reflection, and vivid sensory imagery, culminating in a compelling vision of hope, beauty, and divine craftsmanship as the biblical story nears its conclusion.

Next episode: Further exploration of the city and the new relationship between God and humanity in the new creation. Two studies remain in Revelation before restarting the five-year journey through the Bible.