Afghanistan Withdrawal , Chris Robinson | Tier1 Live

Summary

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Tier1 Podcast – Afghanistan Withdrawal, Chris Robinson | Tier1 Live

Date: July 29, 2026
Host: Brent Tucker
Guest: Chris Robinson (Marine veteran, founder of The Last Deployment Project)

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Tier1 Podcast brings together host Brent Tucker—a former Delta Force operator—and guest Chris Robinson, a Marine veteran and creator of The Last Deployment Project, to discuss the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021. Drawing from over 80 interviews with Marines, soldiers, airmen, and family members, Chris serves as a central voice documenting the lived experiences and lessons from that historic and chaotic evacuation. The conversation weaves together battlefield realities, failed leadership, historic context, emotional aftermath, and the necessity of capturing truth for future generations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Last Deployment Project – Capturing Ground Truth

[00:34]

• Chris has interviewed 84+ people, spanning multiple branches and units, on their experiences during the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
• He sees value not just in documenting "different stories," but in providing a clarifying, composite narrative from multiple perspectives.
• Quote (Chris, 10:07): “You get clarity more than anything... It only scales up to a certain point. Everybody has a sector. Every squad, every platoon. Once you leave a certain squad, you really can't relate their experience to each other.”

Feelings Among Veterans – Betrayal and Accountability

[11:52]

• When asked by Brent to sum up his feelings on the withdrawal, Elliot (another guest) simply says:
  Quote (Elliot, 11:52): “Betrayal.”
• Discussion centers on how the military on the ground executed their orders, but the plan from leadership and government was deeply flawed.
• Quote (Brent, 12:55): “I think our government betrayed our military by forcing that on them... I also feel a little bit betrayed by the leadership of our military by not pushing back and saying, ‘Hey, stop. This can't be done.’”

Political Context and Timeline of Withdrawal

[16:22]

• Chris lays out the withdrawal timeline back from the 2018–2020 Doha Agreements through both Trump and Biden administrations.
  • Doha said U.S. forces out by May 1, 2021, conditional on Taliban negotiating with the Afghan government.
  • Afghan government crumbled, Taliban saw no need for negotiation and simply waited.
• Quote (Brent, 18:07): “America has all the clocks, but we have all the time.” (Taliban proverb shared in context)
• Biden’s administration reviewed and then moved the final withdrawal date, ultimately settling on August 31, 2021.

The Collapse of Afghan Forces and Evacuation Realities

[27:02]

• Chris details what a “good” withdrawal would’ve looked like:
  • Afghan forces at least holding around Kabul.
  • Flexibility on the timeline to get everyone out.
  • Retaining control of Kabul and ideally Bagram Air Base for proper operations.
• The U.S. and allies became isolated at HKIA (Hamid Karzai International Airport), choked off by Taliban control.
• Discussion of the real logistics—Chinooks flew missions under fire, evacuating tens of thousands, with near-constant risk and improvisation.

The Payment & Support to Taliban After Withdrawal

[19:31–24:06]

• Discussion of reports (and confusion) about whether the U.S. is directly or inadvertently funding the Taliban post-withdrawal.
• Aid intended for Afghanistan has ended up being taxed or seized by the Taliban.

The State of American Legislation and Military Decision-Making

[04:22]

• Brent expresses frustration over the inefficiency of U.S. government legislation (referencing a 600-page veteran benefits act).
• He draws a parallel to the overly complex, compromise-ridden planning that plagued the Afghanistan withdrawal.

Assigning Blame for the Withdrawal

[33:33]

• Chris is pressed to assign blame:
  • Points to the U.S. State Department's leading role during the NEO (Noncombatant Evacuation Operation).
  • DoD was left supporting State Department policy and timelines, sometimes against military best practices.
  • Notes multiple presidents’ and parties’ decisions led there.

Capturing Lessons – The Importance of Recording History

[45:53–47:32]

• Discussion of military whistleblowing and the courage to speak truth to power (referencing both Vietnam’s David Hackworth and Marine legend Smedley Butler).
• Chris and Brent agree that ground truth is often suppressed as it rises up the chain for convenience or political protection.
• Quote (Chris, 45:49): “As a military member, you have an obligation to let your leadership know, like, hey, something's wrong... But unfortunately, it either doesn't make it down the right channels or if it's too inconvenient politically, it just gets pushed to the side.”

Surveillance State & Freedom vs. Security

[54:23–59:16]

• Extended debate about the rise of surveillance technology (e.g., Flock cameras), the tradeoff between law enforcement effectiveness and loss of privacy/freedom.
• Quote (Chris, 57:10): “It's better that 100 criminals go free than one innocent man suffer.” (paraphrasing Ben Franklin)

Other Notable Segments

• Chinook Crews' Refusal:
  [81:17] The story of a Chinook company refusing an order to fly into Pakistan on a “doomed mission” as the withdrawal wrapped up.
  • Quote (Chris, 82:50): “All the pilots and crews pushed back… like, yeah, that's a stupid ass plan. We're not doing that.”
• On Outlier Stories:
  [32:12] Chris explains how, with so many interviews, wild “outlier” stories usually don’t stand alone—most accounts merge into a consistent, clarifying narrative.

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Memorable Quotes

• Chris Robinson, on clarity of oral histories [10:07]:
  "You get clarity more than anything... It only scales up to a certain point."
• Elliot, on the withdrawal [11:52]:
  "Betrayal."
• Brent, on leadership failure [12:55]:
  "Our government betrayed our military by forcing that on them."
• Taliban Proverb Shared by Brent [18:07]:
  "America has all the clocks, but we have all the time."
• Chris, on evaluating blame [33:33]:
  "People want me to point to one person or decision... but it's a series of decisions, or lack thereof."
• Chris, on dissent and pushing back [45:49]:
  “You have an obligation to let your leadership know, ‘Hey, this is jacked up.’ It needs to get fixed and we need to put resources behind it."
• Brent, on the feeling of the withdrawal [115:43]:
  "You're doing good things... at the same time, you're part of America's biggest military disaster. It has to be some sort of, you know, constant struggle."
• Chris, on narrative focus [116:11]:
  "There are two narratives... failure at the strategic level, and then one of success: pulling something decent and good out of an incredibly shitty situation."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|------------| | Introductions & Project Overview | 00:01–07:36| | Value of Oral Histories / Multiple Perspectives | 07:36–11:52| | Veteran Sentiment: “Betrayal” | 11:52–15:12| | Timeline of Withdrawal Decisions (Doha, Biden etc) | 16:22–18:44| | Taliban’s Patience / Afghan Collapse | 18:44–19:31| | US Aid & Taliban Funding | 19:31–24:06| | What a Good Withdrawal Would Look Like | 27:02–30:19| | Why We Abandoned Bagram Airbase | 28:30–30:19| | Outlier / Dishonest Oral Histories | 32:12–32:49| | Assigning Blame: State Dept vs DoD | 33:33–35:46| | Chinook Crews: Refusing a Doomed Mission | 81:17–83:05| | Surveillance State Debate | 54:23–59:16| | Whistleblowing & Military Loyalty | 45:49–47:32| | Capturing Lessons for Future Generations |160:15–161:32|

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Notable Moments

• [82:09]: Chinook crews refuse order to abandon aircraft in Pakistan—a rare and principled stand by military personnel.
• [116:11]: Chris’s moving explanation of how the withdrawal’s success lay in the heroism and improvisation of “the men and women who are on the ground.”
• [163:21]: Recognition of Stuart Scheller, a Marine officer who spoke out and suffered substantial personal cost.
• [161:32]: Brent emphasizes the importance of Chris’s ongoing oral history project to preserve and teach the lessons of Afghanistan for future military and civilian leaders.

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Community & Humor

• The show, while somber and deeply reflective regarding Afghanistan, retains Tier1 Podcast’s trademark camaraderie, banter, and listener engagement via the YouTube live chat and super chats.
• Short lighter segments—debates over “mountain water,” sitting vs. standing to pee, folk tales of Bigfoot & UFOs, the role of the humble mailman versus the Amazon driver, etc.—showcase the real, relatable side of the veterans’ community.

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Closing and Calls to Action

• Chris’s project is set to live at thelastdeploymentproject.org (target launch: August 2026), intended as a living archive for interviews, photos, and stories from Afghanistan’s final chapter.
• Listeners are encouraged to follow Chris’s project on Instagram, Facebook, X/Twitter, and YouTube, and to reach out with their own stories or connections.
• Brent and the entire cast reinforce the importance of supporting and listening to veteran voices, learning hard lessons, and maintaining honest historical records.

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Final Word (Chris, 182:41):
“I appreciate every opportunity I get to talk about it... The only reason I keep going is because of their support—those I interviewed—and I just really appreciate it.”

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Further Resources

• The Last Deployment Project: [thelastdeploymentproject.org] (site launching August 2026)
• Podcasts Mentioned:
  • Boots and Shoots (Lt. Col. Rowe & CSM Heim)
• Books Referenced:
  • About Face – David Hackworth

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For Listeners

If you missed the live show, this episode is a rare, unfiltered account from those who lived the chaos of Afghanistan's final days—cutting through political spin and media fog. The heart of the show is about responsibility, memory, honor, and making sure the truth is not lost as years pass and the headlines fade.

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Transcript

[A]

All right, we are back. It is another Thursday night. It is time for the Patriots to gather with us tonight. F. Chris Robinson, former Marine, founder of the last deployment project, just did a recording with him. Covers the whole withdrawal of. Of Afghanistan. Spoke to over 80 different Marines, soldiers. People like to cover that. That whole topic, did you not?

[B]

Yep.

[C]

84 right now.

[A]

84.

[C]

Yep. Soldiers, Marines, airmen, family members.

[A]

Which. Which makes you the subject matter expert in the country on the withdrawal of Afghanistan. Is that correct?

[C]

Some people say so, yeah.

[A]

And I'm one of those people. That is correct. And with us over on the couch. That ain't the cat. Yeah. You guys already know what the problem is. We got Elliot College, one of my former S.1 from Afghanistan, from 20th the group. Elliot, welcome to the show, brother.

[D]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[A]

Yeah, We. We got Patreon Blake back on the couch. What's up? And just right there on the edge. His dad Tommy's trying to. Trying to stay out of the limelight. But that's. That's okay. We may need your. Your sage wisdom at some point and bring you behind the mic and screwing it up behind the computer all night will be. Magnet. Magnet. All right, Magnet. Doesn't even sound right. All right, Magnet. Let's do.

[B]

All right.

[A]

But you guys have to remind me where. Where you from? Where'd you come in from?

[E]

I came in from Charlotte, but my parents. So Tommy over there came in from Beckley, West Virginia.

[A]

And you. Would you drive down from North Carolina or West Virginia? What'd you do?

[E]

They drove down from Beckley. Ok. And I flew down, but the rest of my family drove down from Charlotte, so.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. And. And what? And you brought with you a jar of water?

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Is this a Mason jar of water?

[E]

Yeah, it's just water. Mountain. Mountain water.

[A]

Mountain water.

[E]

Mountain water. Yeah, it's clean.

[A]

Little diff. It looks clean. I'll tell you. That stings. It's.

[E]

It's clean.

[A]

It stings. Why would m. Why would mountain water sting?

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Ah, I get it.

[E]

You can put it in the Corvette.

[A]

No, you. I do believe the Corvette. This might add 40 horsepower to. To the. To the Corvette.

[B]

It needs it.

[A]

Ah, there it is. You. You want a swig of apparently West Virginia mountain water?

[E]

Yeah, just mountain water.

[C]

I'll do one. All right.

[A]

YouTube. Don't.

[E]

Don't.

[A]

Don't gig us, YouTube.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

It's just water. Thank you, man. Appreciate that. Appreciate that gift.

[C]

Does go down smooth.

[B]

Actually.

[A]

Tastes better than it smells. Not that it smells horrible, but it's you smell. It'll wake you up.

[C]

It'll.

[A]

It'll wake you up. That is for certain. Drew is on the road with frcc. He's up in Jacksonville doing a. A show, I believe. The School Resource Officer association. Fastro Florida Association, School Resource Officers. Is that Elliot? Is that your neck of the woods? Jacksonville.

[D]

Jacksonville?

[A]

What's that?

[D]

I live in Jacksonville.

[A]

You live in Jacksonville. All right. How do you like Jacksonville? Thinking about getting out of Orlando. How you like Jacksonville?

[D]

Stay on the outskirts.

[A]

Okay. All right. You looking to leave Jacksonville or you like. Where you. You at the outskirts already?

[D]

We're at the outskirts already. Fleming Island.

[B]

All right.

[A]

All right. I was before you. You came on and. And, and, and stayed for. For the live. I was thinking about doing the. Now I got to think of the name of. Of the bill, the Take Care of America Veterans act that is trying to go through Congress. I'm just gonna hit the. The wave tops on it. Just for a second. It has. And just to kind of explain it to some people, maybe. Maybe some people have heard of it, maybe they haven't. This is what I hate about our government. So. So that is the act, and that act has 60 different bills within that act, and it's 600 pages. So if you just imagine, almost every single One of those 60 bills is about 100 pages long. And some of them have some good things, some have some bad things. It's a bipartisan bill. So as you'd imagine, I can probably guess where the good stuff came from, where the bad stuff came from. But something tell me to some degree, both parties have a little bit of bad ideas also in there. And this is the problem that I absolutely hate. There are good bills or bad bills. We'll just leave it at that. Or else it'll take two hours for me to go down all 60 of them. So let's just talk in generalities for just a second. If you want the good parts of the bill to pass, you have to vote yes for the bad parts of the bill as well. And then if you. And if you don't want the bad parts of the bill, if the bad parts are too much, and you're like, okay, I can't accept this because the bad parts are ridiculous. When it comes to election season, they're going to tell you about the good parts of the bill that you voted no for and make you look like a scumbag. And in a weird way, they're not wrong by what they said. You didn't vote for veterans that have this benefit when the fact is that's because you put a 600 page port filled bill of 60 different things and made me vote on it. It's just, I just had to, I just had to vent a little bit on that. Everything should be voted for individually. And I get it. They would say, well, if you voted for it individually, It'd take us 60 different votes to get through what we can get through in one vote. Then you got to cap it out at something. But 60, no, you can't have 60 different bills in one thing. It's just the epitome of. Of a lack of efficiency, which is our government, which is going to duff tail a little bit into our withdrawal. That wasn't very efficient, was it, Chris?

[C]

No, definitely. That's. Come on. Definitely didn't get executed that way for sure.

[A]

See what I did though, that was called a segue of the business. Just perfectly executed.

[C]

That's why you're the podcast. I just interview people. I don't do the podcast thing.

[A]

Just real quick wave tops off the top of your head. You don't have to name all of them. How many different units? You said 84 different people you interviewed for the withdrawal of Afghanistan. How many different units does that cover?

[C]

2nd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Battalion, 8th Marines, 4th Battalion, 31st Infantry, 2nd Brigade, 10th Mountain, 1st Brigade, 82nd, 3rd General Support Aviation Battalion, 82nd.

[B]

That's enough.

[A]

It was a lot. You interviewed a lot of different people. I asked you the same question in the recording and I usually try to keep the live in the recording pretty separate.

[D]

But.

[A]

But this one is just. This is an interesting question to me. I've done. If you want to call it investigative journalism, I think it's probably an insult to true investigative journalists. I just called a few people and tried to verify a story. Is. Is what I did. But for the people who are on the receiving end of being looked into, if, let's say the story doesn't line up and we'll use the term lie, if that's what's happening on their. Their defense mechanism is. Is always, hey, if you ask 10 different people that were there, you'll get 10 different stories. And my pushback is always, yes, I like to actually like to call it 10 different versions of the same story or 10 different perspectives of the same version of the story. And yes, this side of the story here may have parts in it this guy didn't even see like it's there. They are different versions, but when you talk to all of them, usually they actually clarify the version of the Story. Now, the reason why I ask you that and kind of lay it out that way isn't. I'm not asking you. I'm not leading you to an answer. When I do it, it's. They're usually pretty small numbers, so it's not that hard. I don't know if it scales up because now you're. You're talking to 10 times. Possibly the amount of people I've talked to and that are. That aren't in the same room or on the same battlefield. You could almost say they're kind on the same battlefield that they're in, you know, hka. But each gate is a. Is a battlefield of its own per se, and can be very different. So it's a long question to kind of set the stages, but I'm just interested. How. What did you find out? Does it scale up when you ask, talk to 84 different people. Did you get a lot of confusion? Did you get clarity out of that? A little bit of both. What?

[C]

You get clarity more than anything because it doesn't. It really doesn't scale. It only scales up to like a certain point because every. Obviously everybody. Every unit has its own sector that's going to. You need every squad, every platoon. So once you, like, leave a certain platoon, leave a certain squad. I mean, you really can't relate them to each other because they're just so. Especially when you get to like, HK In August, everybody was so busy focused on their one particular mission. Yeah, you can only ask them about that, their particular mission. You can't expect them to necessarily correlate. Sometimes they do, and it's really cool when they do.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But they. I wouldn't necessarily. I wouldn't say they contradict each other. It's just you're focused in like. Like we say in the military, getting sucked into the scope.

[A]

Okay, they get it.

[C]

Just get sucked into the scope by their sector. And they have to. It's not that they're not doing the job correctly. They have to because there's so much going on right in that one little spot.

[A]

Exactly. That is someone else's job to look at all the different pictures and piece them together. When you're a ground guy, which is kind of the beauty of being a ground guy, life is kind of simple. This is my piece of the pie. Let me handle right what's right in front of me. Not that's what. That's what you should be expected to do. That's interesting. Ellie, I actually have a question for you. Swing the mic on over there. Because you spent some time in Afghanistan, and as an. A fellow Afghan combat veteran, it's a. And it's a tough. It's a tough question to some degree because it's such a holistic subject. There's so many different things. What are your thoughts on the withdrawal of Afghanistan? I know it's a big. It's a. It's a big question that varies, I'm sure, like a bunch of different emotions, but I'm gonna put you on the spot.

[D]

Betrayal.

[A]

Betrayal.

[C]

Just to sum it up.

[D]

Yeah, well, that was silly, but time to go. So.

[A]

Yeah, you know, we talked about that. We talked about that on the recording as well. Time to go. It was time to go. Yet you still felt betrayal. Betrayed because of the way they did it. Let me dig down. Dig into that answer a little more. When you say betrayed, and it could be by both. Betrayed by the military. Betrayed by the government. A little bit of both.

[D]

The military's over there just doing their job, following orders and executing what they were told to execute. If there was pushback by the generals.

[A]

Speaking of, Mike, just a little bit closer.

[D]

If there was pushback from the generals, then we would have. I mean, we never would have heard about it because, you know, that is so the way that our government organized it or didn't organize it is the primary issue. It was absolute.

[A]

It's. It's so funny. We. We could. We could pull the chat right now. We could ask the chat, you know, what. What they felt about it. Your answer is really almost spot on to what we talked about during the recording, Chris. And that is how most veterans feel. And I think betrayed. It was. Was. Was just a. A good word in general. It definitely was. Wasn't a. Wasn't a good feeling. And like you said, it wasn't towards the guys on the ground. They were doing the best they could. They were put into a bad situation. But I've said this before. Betrayed. I think our. I think our government betrayed our military by forcing that on them. And now here's. Here's. I'll just call it like I see it. Here's just a. Here's a tough one to swallow, possibly. It's not the guys in the ground. The guys in the ground always just. It's not their job is. Is to execute. That is their job. But I also feel a little bit betrayed by the leadership, the leadership of our military by not pushing back and saying, hey, stop. Do you want to embarrass us on the world stage? Do you want this to be a debacle do you want this to go smoothly? What you're asking cannot be done. And we have to stop, slow down. We need more resources, we need more time and we need to plan this thing out properly. If they did that kind of goes back to almost what you said. If they did that, I don't know, but something tells me if they did that, they didn't do it enough because we stayed on a ridiculous timeline that cost, that cost people their lives. And that's, and that's just the, the, the, the fact of the matter, I

[B]

think it was politically driven.

[A]

How so how do you. Because just, just for the, you know, devil's advocate, what, what would be the benefit politically to, to pull out so fast?

[B]

Because I think Biden wanted to take credit for them leaving Afghanistan.

[A]

That's true. What we. Gosh, it's. August was the, the pull out month.

[C]

Yeah, that's when every. Oh, geez. Excuse me. Sorry. Yeah, that was kind of like, that was the end game. That was when the non combatant evacuation operation or NEO occurred in HK and Kabul. Yeah, that was like the end of it.

[A]

And what year?

[C]

2021.

[A]

2021. Which means he had, he had three more years to be president. He didn't need that for, you know, for a victory. He had a timeline on there. You know what I mean? Like for him to claim that as I pulled out of Afghanistan, I'd get it. If it was, you know, the end of, of his, of his presidency. He had plenty of time to stop, do it. Right. And still get credit for it. So the only thing he got credit for was embarrassing us on the world stage.

[B]

Trump had a plan though, right?

[A]

Well, Trump started it. Trump started it. And in fact, I'll, I'll, I'll let, I'm sure you know about it. I'll let you go over the, the timeline of the pull out of Afghanistan. You are the subject matter expert as, as we've already established. Answer that one for him.

[C]

Yeah, just stop me from getting too detailed.

[A]

No, go ahead.

[C]

So the negotiations with the Taliban really start back in 2018. So gone for a couple of years. They stop, they start, they stop to start.

[B]

Geez.

[C]

Excuse me.

[A]

No, you're good.

[C]

But yeah, finally, by February 20, February 29, 2020, the, they come to the agreement, the Doha Agreement, or it's got a official much longer name that escapes me off the top of my head right now. But Doha Agreement, for all intents purposes, which was the agreement with the Taliban and what the Doha agreement basically says the two most important parts is that the Taliban must enter. Enter into negotiations with the Afghan government and that we are going to get all of our troops out by May 1, 2021.

[A]

That. I'm gonna help you out real quick because I could. Agreement for bringing peace to Afghanistan between the United States of America and the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. That is the official name of the agreement. That's ridiculous.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't know if they still do, but they used to have it in parentheses. Known as the Taliban and not recognized by the Nazis. They used to have that in parentheses. And when I first started researching.

[A]

Yeah, it's. But, you know, I mean, it goes into the recording. So we'll just hit the wave top. They didn't really have to worry about talking with the government of Afghanistan because it crumbled and the president flew out. Yeah. So really wasn't anyone really discuss.

[C]

Yeah. And the Taliban knew that from the beginning. They knew all they.

[B]

The.

[C]

From the Doha Agreement on even before that. Really all the Taliban knew that all they had to do was basically wait till we were gone. And as soon as we were gone, they could do whatever they want.

[A]

Yeah. You know, there's. I'll never forget it. There was a saying in Afghanistan used by the Taliban essentially, that describes that battle, that situation right there. And it'll say, america has all the clocks, but we have all the time, basically. And that's. And it's such a good saying. And it really does encompass what was going on there. And they knew it. The only. They even. 20 years to us was such a long time. To them, 20 years was nothing. They'd have waited out 30 years, 40 years, 50 years. They didn't care. They just knew they. All they had to do was just wait us out.

[C]

It's such an ancient land. And I mean, just talk about just like warfare, military like they've been. That's a country that's been at War since 1979. As far as they're concerned. It's just a continuation. I mean, there were Afghans that were there when we were there in the 2010s, and they thought they were still fighting the Russians.

[A]

I ran across that one time at the very top of a mountain that they thought. They thought they were still fighting the Russians. They hadn't seen a foreigner in so long. They were so high up in elevation and so far away from everything. They had no idea. We had to. We had.

[C]

We.

[A]

It's gonna. We told them about September 11th and we had to tell them who we are and why we were there. They were the nicest people. They had no idea. No idea. What'd you have? You have something you want to say?

[E]

I was just going to ask, where does the $80 million a week we've been sending the Taliban come into this story? Because I've been hearing a lot about it. Right. That we're paying the Taliban $80 million a week. Where does that come in?

[A]

Are you tracking that part of the story at all?

[C]

Yeah, barely. My focus generally is like just 2021 itself, but.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I am aware of that. And I, I mean, just as an American and as a veteran, I'm very disturbed by it, for sure.

[E]

Yeah. I just wonder if that played a part in the withdrawal at all to

[C]

try to hide during the withdrawal itself. I don't think so. Definitely. I think there's a lot of questions to be raised after the fact. For sure.

[A]

You know, we, we went down the Doha Accords, but the, but that was. And I don't remember if. If you finished it. So I apologize that Trump started it and he. And he. And he put a date to it, which, which ran into Biden's administration. Did we cover that? Just make sure.

[C]

No, not just yet.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right, go ahead. But, yeah, you got more things.

[B]

Go ahead.

[C]

Set the dial for May 1st.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Obviously, 2020 presidential election going on, and Trump's talking about getting all troops out by January 1st. Gets a lot of pushback from the DOD on that. Doesn't do it. And then Trump loses the election. President Biden comes in with his administration. They review the Doha agreement, they review the intelligence in Afghanistan, or at least what. What's been provided to the president, his administration, and they make the decision on April 14 that they're going to continue with the withdrawal. They're just not going to withdraw on May 1. They set the deadline for September 11. Gets a lot of pushback on that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And a couple weeks later, talking with the DOD and intelligence officials, pushes that deadline up to August 31st.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which is some of the problem that they said. They said, well, this date had already been agreed upon. And so that was kind of their. Their defense of why it was rushed. But that's just not true. It was already agreed upon once. Moved. Agreed upon a second time moved. We, We've been able to move the date. We could have moved the date again. They're just covering. Just covering their ass. I'll. Blake, I'll give you an answer. Just real quick. According to the Internet, the United States does not intentionally pay the Taliban.

[D]

I don't.

[A]

Okay. But U.S. and international aid sit in Afghanistan has inadvertently reached the group through taxes, custom fees and diversion of humanitarian resources. Since 2021, the Taliban takeover, the country has relied heavily on international humanitarian assistance. The Taliban controls the central bank and border checkpoints, allowing them to intercept or levy taxes on the non government organization and gos and United nations agency. United nations agencies distributing aid. U.S. officials have acknowledged that at least $10 million in foreign aid was diverted to the Taliban in the form of taxes. Overall, the United states dispersed over $3.8 billion in humanitarian and and developmental aid to Afghanistan following the Taliban's return to power. I'm gonna take a swing at this and kind of guess what's is happening to some degree. You know, Doge encountered this as well. Sometimes those, those financial buckets when, when already turned on, they're slow to turn on. Even when we say that this is allocated, it's allocated usually in, in advance and they're hard to turn off because nothing, nothing fast happens in the government. Something tells me that money was allocated expecting the government of Afghanistan to still be in power. And when it crumbled as fast as it was, it was still on its way and ended up going the Taliban. That's just an assumption I got going on. But I could be wrong. Could we be so inept that we just decided to continue to pay the Taliban anyway? Yeah, that's a possibility. Let's not. I don't think it's too crazy.

[C]

I'm pretty sure some of it is for part of the agreement when we left is that the Taliban will make sure that the Afghanistan would not be used for any terroristic activities internationally, especially against the United States or its allies. And I think some of that money was supposed to go towards the Taliban to help them do that. Okay, but I would, me personally, I would say that that has not happened. And they're probably just pocketing that.

[A]

Yeah, that's crazy. Let's go to the, let's go to Super Chats and see what the people have to say. Scroll, scroll the Super Chat window. Hey, Magnet, I'm going to ask a lot of you.

[B]

I know, but I don't know how to do it.

[A]

I need you to produce here, you see where it says Top Chat right there.

[B]

Hold

[A]

on.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Yeah. Are you on the left computer?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You see where I'm pointing, buddy? This left screen? Yep. Click on it right here where it says Top Chat.

[C]

Just gotta.

[A]

Look at me, Magnet, look at me. Go to Top Chat. Drop it down. Go to Fan funding. Boop. All right, now scroll it all the way down. Do you know how to scroll a Mac Mouse? You do not. Okay. We should have went over this before we went live.

[B]

Yeah. Sorry, guys.

[A]

Click it.

[C]

There you go.

[A]

And give me a second. It should come right back on.

[D]

All right.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

Sorry, guys.

[A]

We are back. Let's go right back to the beginning of that. What would a good withdrawal look like?

[C]

Like I was saying before, you're asking a question that historians love to ask. Historians love to ask themselves behind closed doors and talk about themselves. But hate. Talk about. Hate talking about publicly. That's a what if question, basically. It's a what if the withdrawal went. Went right. And similar question. A lot of things would have to be different. The Afghan forces would have had to held the ground at least enough into the month of August. At the very least, keeping a perimeter around Kabul itself. That didn't happen. Been more flexible with the timeline, I would say, to actually get all the people out that we wanted to get out. And a big thing is that maintaining control of Kabul itself, to actually conduct operations the way we would want to conduct operations in Kabul because the way things went down is that we got confined to the airport.

[A]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[C]

And the Taliban had taken over kid pool and they had the outer perimeter of the airport. So a lot of.

[A]

We'd gotten choked down.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Too. Too much, too. We had. We had no breathing room. We absolutely should have controlled Kabul. I. I agree with you on that.

[C]

But ideally, we've had.

[A]

And we could have.

[B]

And.

[A]

And if. Had that been the plan, we could have. Yeah, we have the forces.

[C]

Yeah. And holding Bagram would have been nice, too. But there is a reason that we left Bagram, and that's been explained to me a couple of times. And what's that with.

[A]

Can you explain it to me as well?

[C]

Yeah. So everybody talks about leaving Bagram July 1, July 2, flying out of there. I will say that Bagram. Talking to the guys who are actually there in Bagram. Bagram was not abandoned. And nor did we leave without telling anybody. The Afghans in the Afghan command in Bagram knew we were leaving. I'm sure we didn't tell them exactly when we were leaving, but they knew we were leaving.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And this actually got sent to me in a picture by a platoon sergeant with the 10th Mountain who was there June 12th. And it was a conference room of a bunch of US and Afghan officers. And basically what they were doing is signing everything over from the US Ownership to AF to Afghan army ownership. So what was left in Bagram? We got Everything out of Bagram that we wanted to get out of Bagram, everything that was left was signed over to the Afghans, including all the base buildings, everything. And we left Bagram. Reason being was because that even in the event of a Taliban takeover, we had no plan to leave the embassy in Kabul. That diplomatic mission was supposed to remain even in the event of a Taliban victory. So we needed to concentrate forces in Kabul that could support, that could support that diplomatic mission. And bagram was about 30 something miles away from Kabul.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And was way, way too far from the embassy to actually effectively support it, at least in a timely manner.

[A]

So.

[C]

And H Kaya is only four miles down the road from the embassy, so.

[A]

Yeah, all right, that is, that is a solid answer. Sully also went in. Were any interviewees dishonest or mistaken?

[C]

I don't think I've come across anybody being deliberately dishonest. As far as mistaken goes, I mean, I mean we're going on five years now removed from the events.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And even memory right after an event is never perfect. So if they are mistaken about anything, that's why I want to interview as many people as I can.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Even if they've, even if they're right next to the other guy that I've interviewed and quote unquote saw the same things and did the same things that they were doing, it's still a different head of work, different set eyes at work that you might remember things just a little bit differently or maybe a little bit better, maybe a little bit worse, I don't know. But that's why you want to talk to as many people as you can.

[A]

Again, that's something you have that I think benefits you other than me investigating small teams. Because let's say four people are in a room or two people go in this room, two people go in that room, just completely making it up. If one person has a wildly different story, it's, you don't have enough people there. You easily say, say a valley clearing operation, especially you, you could be the only person to see that and be very tough to, to validate that. But when, when you have 10, 20, 30, 40 people, if you have a one off story, it's kind of easy to isolate that and be like that's a one off story. The other 20 or 30 that were around you are all saying this. I think, I think this is, we're going to go with this. But I don't even think you've had any really one off stories, have you? Like extreme, we'll call them Outliers. Like an outlier that was just wildly different than anyone else's or, or have you.

[C]

Not really. Just off the top of my head, I mean, I have to. Okay, maybe one of the recordings I did. I have to go back. Yeah. I got like, like I said, like 84. 84 from now. So I have to go back and listen just to make 100. Sure. But not, not really. Usually every story that I've heard and I talk to somebody who's from the same unit, they'll correlate the story to some degree.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And, but, but if I do hear something that's a one off, I'll. I'll take the story. I don't think they're lying to me, at least not intentionally. But I'll like take it with a grain of salt and just kind of hold on to it and wait and see if it comes up again later. Being said by somebody else, if you're

[A]

looking for an outlier. Have you interviewed Tim Kennedy yet?

[C]

I have not.

[A]

That's a joke. That's a joke. I am. I'm kidding. Just last week I said we weren't going to do that anymore. Old habits die hard.

[C]

I've only heard two stories about Tim Kennedy.

[A]

I'm sure they were good. Let's see here. No, we got that one. Oh, Sully sneaking in a three for here. Who do you blame for failures in withdrawal? And that's a tough one. I can tell you're a nice guy. You don't really want to point fingers of sorts, but someone messed up. Chris, is it?

[C]

Well, that's the thing is like, people are going to want me to point to like one person or one decision that like screwed everything up. And really it was a, it's a series of decisions or lack or lack thereof. Probably true. I mean, we talked about this a little bit earlier. It really depends on how far back you want to go. Like, you want to go back to the Clinton administration who.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Knew about the terrorist activities in Al Qaeda.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

You want to go back to Reagan and Bush Senior.

[A]

No, we won't go back to them.

[C]

We love Reagan with their policies in Afghanistan with the close of the Soviet intervention.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Yep. With the support of the, of the MO that ended up getting all those air defense weapons in country that we later were all worried about. That's just a fraction of some of the issues that, that we were having back then. But you're right, but Afghanistan's been a failed policy since the 80s. Really. And. But with the. But in terms of the Withdrawal.

[C]

I mean, it probably is one organization that I can probably point a finger at pretty comfortably. And I will say that the, A lot of the decisions made during the withdrawal, and especially with regards to a neo, all those revolve around the State Department.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So again, like, the reason we left, the reason we left Bagram was to support the diplomatic mission. That's the State Department. NEOs are the responsibility of the State Department and it's the DoD's obligation to supply personnel to support the Neo, which the DoD did.

[E]

So.

[A]

Yeah, I forgot that aspect of it that you just said it, but I just want to say it in different terms. The State. Who was in charge of this? Was the State Department ultimately in charge of the withdrawal or was, or the military or does anyone know?

[C]

Well, the State Department with the neo, and they're the ones saying the policies like who can get out and who can get out generally where they were going. And it was the basically military's job to try and facilitate that.

[A]

Well, they're, they're a good punching bag. We'll go with State Department.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

There's a lot of playing that could be put on the State Department. Obviously there's more than that. I don't want to put too much on State Department, but a lot of it is on the State Department, if I'm being completely honest.

[A]

We'll take that. Cal Phillips, 7527. As a mail carrier in the North Ga Mountains. North Georgia mountains. I listen to everything. I want to say thank you to Brent Drew. I'll relay the message to Drew Guest and crew. Keep me plugging boxes. Brothers have to have to deal with red tape in a different way. Thank you. Thank you. You what you want to talk about people who don't get enough credit? I don't think no one, no one cares. No one cares about the mailman anymore. Or if you think Amazon's kind of taken over everyone's like, favorite person. It used to be the mailman who brought you the good and the bad. Now the mailman pretty much just brings you the bills and all the good stuff the Amazon driver delivers.

[D]

Yet.

[A]

I mean, is that. I've never really thought about it until just now, but that's, that's kind of right to, to some degree. But the mailman. We also used to live in a society where you knew who your mailman was. We didn't have a dual income home where that. Where the wife and the husband worked. So someone stayed home and someone got the mail and you knew who. You knew it Was. Does anyone know? They're maybe in small towns. Maybe. Do you know who your mailman is?

[C]

No. And I live in a small town. I have no idea.

[A]

And maybe. And. And I probably have to say male person. I. I don't know. Elliot, do you know who your mailman

[D]

is up in Kentucky? I knew who my mailman was.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

We still give him a little bonus on Christmas. Oh, do you? Yeah, down here. Haven't met him yet. Yeah, because they're in a box down the road, Right.

[A]

Mine's in a communal box as well. Blake, do you know your mailman?

[E]

I do not know my mailman, and I'll answer for my father.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

Our house in West Virginia is not even listed on a map for Amazon, FedEx, UPS, or USPS, so they have to walk around town and try to find them. So, yeah, they know him. Right. But it's. It's. We don't know.

[A]

Magnet, you're usually pretty good at this because you get things delivered to the shop. So you have two different options. You're personal. You probably don't, because you're at work all the time. But do you know your mailman?

[B]

Well, the personal one is one of those boxes, too. Like here.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So he doesn't even come to the door. He is an older guy. He's been doing it forever. I just don't know what his name is. And then one of the shop. I do have him in my phone.

[A]

I know you do, because you can't have parts just hanging out outside. Yeah.

[B]

So I have them in my phone.

[A]

Yeah. Anyway, yeah, got. Got me on a. Got me a little down a rabbit hole on that one, but thank you, Kyle. Thank you for your service. Bacon Forge. Here's a little something towards some cigars and a pack of glizzies. Thursday nights are for the Patriots. Clutch. Electric worry for the outro. Well, you got me at clutch. I haven't heard clutch in a while. And you'll get that. I got this. Man, it is almost time for a new notebook. We are filling up. Clutch. How much was that? You remember Magnet? Go back for me real quick. Thank you. Oh, he's probably. You're probably gonna get that, sir.

[C]

All right.

[A]

Electric worry, One of our Patreon members sent me. Sometimes I get, you know, YouTube videos sent to me on the DMS and Patreon. I. I try to watch them all, but if they're too long, I just watch it, you know, real quick. Or I. I skim through it. Because it's. It's. I mean, I Can't watch them all. But one guy sent me this. A little off topic, but just it reminded me of. Of that because he's a Patreon member, they sent me a 10 minute video from YouTube on. On. Oh, my gosh. Of course. I don't want to get his name wrong.

[E]

He.

[A]

I believe About Face was the book that he wrote. And people are screaming at me right now. But just give me. Give me a second because I do not want to get his name wrong.

[C]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've heard of that.

[A]

David Hackworth. So you're. Although he was. He was in the army, but have you heard of David Hackworth? And actually this does connect to Afghanistan in a weird way, and I'll tell you why. You ever heard of David Hackworth?

[C]

I don't think so, but I have heard of About Face.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I read it though.

[A]

All right, that's. And that's fine.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

I, I'm. I'm not shaming you because if it wasn't for these patriots and the. And, and the watching the show send me messages, I, I've heard the name, but I couldn't tell you anything about them. Elliot, ever heard of David Hack? Hackworth?

[D]

Heard of him? I think he's had a few books out, but haven't read it and don't know enough about him.

[A]

Blake, you a military fan? Bows.

[D]

And you are.

[B]

You're here.

[E]

I am.

[A]

Heard of David Hack?

[E]

I. I have not.

[A]

Let me tell you real quick about David Hack, and I'm not going to do it justice. David Hackworth wanted to join in World War II. He was too young. He ended up at like age 14, forging his documents to go be like a merchant marine. And then that allowed him to. Then he used that paperwork to join the military as more like legitimate paperwork early. I don't remember if he got into World War II or not. He goes into Korea, then he goes into Vietnam. He becomes a helicopter pilot as well. He's flying himself into rescue missions and getting out and reinforcing his guys. He's a. He earns a battlefield commission at age like 20. I'm all over the place. But his. His story is all over the place. He earns 10 Silver Stars in his career, I believe two or three Distinguished Service Crosses. And we actually don't know how many Purple Hearts he won because he won so many. And the paperwork was so bad back then. The recording. We really don't know, but we know it's a bunch. And he didn't. He's like he had so many, he's like, I don't know, I, I got a few. And when I say a few double digits as well. Just an insane man. But here's where, here's why you don't know who David Hackworth is. David Hackworth was fed up of military leadership and political leadership in America of the Vietnam War. And he came out and did an interview against the Vietnam. Not against the war, not against the boys, you kind of say it was, but against the corrupt and spineless leadership of America not letting the boys do what they got to do. And so he's kind of been, you know, everyone's turned their back on him and you know, in the military and he wasn't very popular for doing that. And he was right. And this is a tough, this is a, this is a tough one to say because I knew it was happening, I knew it was happening. On, on our deployment we ran the commando mission. We were sending up reports saying the commandos needed work on this, needed work on this. They weren't good at this. They need work on. And by the time it got to the soda level, it had been softened a little bit. And then when it got to the sieges, the, the siege of soda level, it got softened up again. And by the time it gets all the way to the top, it's basically rewrote our whole synopsis on the commando program. And they're like, commandos are green. They're all green across the board, good to go. They're good when that's not what we said. And I knew that was happening. I knew that was happening. I knew lies were being told and things were getting altered from the ground truth. Here's a tough question. If you know that's happening, David Hackworth knew that was happening in Vietnam. Not exactly what I'm saying, but new deception and, and cover ups and corruption, we'll call it corruption. It's corrupt not to let, to make the boys fight with one arm behind their back. It's, that's corruption at its, at its, at its highest. Should someone have blown the whistle from within the ranks and said, hey, here's the problem? Because the rest of America looked at the withdrawal and they're like, I can't believe this is happening. But all the veterans were like, yeah, we knew that was going to happen. Those, those Afghans, they never stood up against anything by themselves ever. They were going to fold like, like a cheap chair. We all knew that was going to happen. Reps and politicians, they were like, well, they should hold. We Knew they weren't going to hold should someone stood up on behalf of the ground men fighting in Afghanistan. I said, hey, let me tell you truth about this. It would have gone over well. Tell you that. And I, that's a, I tell you that whole thing to say, that's a tough thing. It's a tough thing to do. But David Hackworth was an absolute man of integrity for that. And there's two sides of that. You can say that maybe he shouldn't have done it. I can tell you maybe he should have done it. I, I don't know. That's a tough one. That is a tough one. What do you think about that? Whether you, I put it into Vietnam terms what he did and then tried to relate it to Afghanistan. But at any point, at any point does, does someone in the service have some sort of obligation to, to tell the truth to America? I mean, that's, I mean, and even if you say yes, it's ordered, it's said, it's already done and said, yeah, I don't know.

[C]

Well, yeah, definitely. I mean, just as a, as a military member, you have an obligation to let your leadership know, like, hey, something's wrong. Like, you don't just try to, I mean, it happens all the time for small things for sure. But like, if something's seriously wrong, something seriously messed up, you're obligated to tell your leadership, like, hey, this is jacked up. It needs to get fixed and we need to put some resources behind it. And I mean, I understand, really, throughout the entirety of the gwa, you have people sounding the alarm on this thing, but unfortunately it either doesn't make it down the right channels or if it's like too inconvenient for whatever political situation has to be at the time, then kind of just gets pushed to the side.

[A]

I can tell you some people did give pushback, but not enough to lose their job. And if we're being honest, that's part of the problem. We're too comfortable. No one's, no one wants to get, no one wants to get kicked out of Special Operations for, for telling the truth. No one wants to not get their full bird promotion. No one wants to be a full Bird and not get their one star promotion. I think there's some people who said it, but I don't think again. I'm not, I'm not out there like judging those guys. I'm, I'm actually being really hard on myself right now going, hey, I, I had a voice. We knew. I just told you I Knew that was happening. My team didn't do anything about it. We complained about it, but complaining about it's one thing and doing something about it is. Is. Is completely different. Anyway, that's David Hackworth. What an absolute legend of a man. And I intend to do a history episode on him one day because he absolutely deserves.

[C]

That kind of reminds me a little.

[D]

Sorry.

[A]

No, go ahead.

[C]

It just kind of reminds me a little bit on the. On the Marine side. You ever heard of Spendley Butler?

[A]

No, I'm actually. I thought. I thought you were going to go with a different Marine. No, no, I didn't.

[C]

No. But I mean, I mean, going through boot camp and training cycle, one of the many ditties you learn is two Marine medals, Dan Daly and Smedley Butler. And these are two Marines who as far as I know, still are the only Marines in Marine Corps history to win not one, but two medals of Honor. Smedley Butler was one of those. Fought in a lot of wars and rose up through the ranks, became a general.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

And saw and saw a lot of issues going on with the wars that we were fighting in the early 20s, in the late 19th and early 20th century.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And long story short, he ends up becoming one of the leaders of. You heard of the bonus army in 1920, 1921? Well, the bonus army was a group of veterans from the First World War. And Congress had promised them payout for basically their time of service. And Congress decided all of a sudden that it wasn't going to give them that. So they get together form this bonus army in D.C. in protest against Congress

[E]

that

[C]

they want the money that they are owed as fine for going off and fighting in the First World War.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And Smelly Butler is one of those leaders and he wrote a whole. I don't think it was a book, but he. A paper called War is a Racket. Basically saw the wars, especially like the. The banana wars down in South America, South, Central America that Marines were very heavily involved in. So like, are we fighting this for the country's interest or are we just fighting so somebody can get some money? And so that was the question that he was posing at the time. And the corruption at the political level and within the military itself, kind of asking those questions.

[A]

And history repeats itself, huh? This has been going on for a long time.

[E]

Yeah,

[A]

just another 11B. Can't be here tonight, fellas. Music festival. Security. Joy. Have the panos with me. Hoping for a tussle. Enjoy the night, friends. Sorry I missed you live. Allison Chains. What the Hell have I. For the outro. Oh, we have. We have. We have competing songs, boys. We have competing songs. That's right. Justin won't even be here for the end. So, you know, if it's a tie, I guess. I guess it'll go to the other guy. Allison Chains. What the hell have I. All right, next one. The real Justin G87 was going to make a Jiz Row, the Super SEAL joke. But after what he said on Newsweek about Charlie's assassination, I realize he is the joke. You guys.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

I don't expect you to. To keep track of. Of Rob o'. Neal. It's. It's not. It's not fun keeping track of him. All the ridiculous things he says. Do you know what they're talking about by chance? Good. Let me fill you in. You ready for this?

[C]

Okay,

[A]

He. This guy, he's on this conspiracy theory that the lapel mic exploded and. And killed Tyler Robinson. And he goes, I've never seen a shirt jump like that. And I've killed a lot of people, and I've never seen a shirt jump like that. All right, I. Rob. That's because. And. And Rob has. Rob's killed people. Rob, that's because you never shot someone. Like one time just like that, and then staring, looking for a shirt in slow motion and slow motion photography, you shot the guy four, five, six times, and he dropped, and you were moving at a high rate of speed, and everything was really fast. So let me break this down. Why the shirt jumps. And by the way, Rob should know this. Maybe he was never a breacher. I don't. I don't know. So maybe doesn't understand a lot about explosives, but a lapel mic doesn't have enough of a room. It's a space issue. You're not going to get enough explosives in there to. To get what you want. It's a little firecracker at best. Okay. You ever seen the gelatin of a. Of a ballistic gel getting shot by a bullet? So when the bullet goes in and they see it has that massive cavity that opens up, and that's really what reeks absolute hell inside the body. And then it gets small again, and it either exits or it stays within the body.

[E]

That.

[A]

In that gel where. Where you see that expansion, that's what happens inside the body. When that bullet enters a body, it has all that energy and all that force, and it enters into that body cavity, that body cavity, and it expands, which is exactly what happened to Charlie. And that's why his shirt Jumped because his body expanded just like a ballistic gelatin. So. Sorry, Rob. I know he says he was a sniper and that he knows all these things apparently. And he was. He was a sniper. But I guess there's a difference between a Delta 4 sniper and a Seal Team 6 sniper. I never saw you at the special operations international sniper competition, Rob. I was there. Didn't see you. But then again, that's maybe why you don't know these things. Next, the crew table. Shout out Mosh pit eats in Augusta. The owner had a quadruple bypass today. Dang. They do a ton to support our communities. He was a first responder. All right, good to see you on the show there. Crew table. Zubai 4713. Flock, is it going too far? You've used better tech to locate and destroy the enemy. Do you feel any type of way about how the local and federal police are going about tracking people? Is it worth it to lose freedom at the cost of finding criminals? Zubi. I think I called him Zubai. Zubi. That's a tough question. And if you really think about. That's one of the tough. That's a really, really good question. You guys know what they're talking about with flock, you kind of.

[C]

I've heard a little bit about it,

[A]

but you may not know the term but. But you'll know cameras that.

[E]

Cameras they're using for speeding tickets, right?

[A]

Is that the one?

[C]

It's not speed tickets. It's.

[A]

Well, speed tickets, plate readers, things like that. That's usually kind of in the hub as like a three or four camera system. It can really zoom in. But yeah, it's, it's, it's very powerful cameras that they're again, plate readers. Speed. It is in conjunction with speeding because once a speeding radar hits it, it's the Flock camera that catches the. The license plate that, that connects the speeding ticket to it. So it's a. It's basically a military grade ISR system. Whether it be in the air with drones or on the ground. You know, it's. It's catching criminals. But here's the problem. At what point do you kind of cross the line into 1984, the book, you know, 1984 and Big Brothers watching you. And you have, there's, there's, there's two arguments to this. And here's the argument, and I'm usually very opinionated and I honestly don't know which one is right. So you can have a state that sees everything you do, and if you have a state that sees everything you do. You have a surveillance state. An. And I don't know if that's a. I don't know if that's a good thing. And people just don't want the government spying on you if you haven't done anything wrong. And I understand that. I do. The other side of the argument says, well, if you're not doing anything wrong, what are you worried about? And all these people who are doing things wrong and getting caught, we'd have never caught them without. Without proper surveillance. And now this goes down to a whole nother argument, which is, what are you worried about being surveilled about your phone surveilling on you? And you're fine with that? It's listening to you, it's taking pictures of you. You go to the atm, it's taking pictures of you. You walk into a store, there's cameras all over Walmart. There's cameras all over BUC EE's. And no one's complaining to BUC EE's. And I get that you can record me all you want. If you let me into BUC EE's, I'll give up my freedom for BUC EE's. But I digress. Like that. That is the argument. Like, is it. How. How much is too much? And now it's a surveillance state. And should the government know everywhere you are at all times, that's really the. The down and dirty of it. What do you think? That's the flock. That's the flock dilemma.

[C]

I'll just paraphrase a quote from Ben Franklin a little bit. And I know I've heard pushback on this quote. Me and my dad have had this conversation, but I know where you're going.

[A]

Yeah, go ahead.

[C]

It's better that 100 criminals go free than one innocent man suffer.

[A]

And that is the side. That is the side I go with. And, and I hate to say it because a part of me is always like, well, hey, if you don't have anything to hide, like, what is. Like, what does it matter? But I believe in smaller government. And a surveillance state is never smaller government. Like, I. It. I just. The government has showed the more control you give it, the more irresponsible it is with it. So why would you ever give the government that control? But again, I do understand the other side of the argument, because let me just play devil's advocate with you, and I'll.

[E]

I'll.

[A]

I'll go to you, Elliot, if. Call your girlfriend if you're. If your girlfriend, say you're in college, you know, and your girlfriend gets groped or robbed or just manhandled by another man. If it wasn't for this system, he gets away, and he gets away to do it again. But without this system, sure, you have your safety, but we never get to catch that guy. And he gets to go prey on innocent girls. Like, that's, that's an argument. Don't you want that? Don't you want those cameras everywhere to, to protect, to protect our women and weaker men. Weaker men deserve it. If you can't protect yourself, that's what you get. So we'll just stay, we'll just stay with protecting women right now.

[D]

Ask the British about the surveillance state. Their surveillance state started really bad in the 90s, and there's, there's a lot of comparisons from over there. Also, I'm, I'm more on the Ben Franklin side. I was law enforcement before. It is, it is nice to be able to catch somebody because of their travel patterns, etc. But get a warrant. There's other ways.

[A]

I love what you just said right there because that actually it, it helped kind of define what, what I was saying were, you know, too much, too much power. That's how it starts. It starts with the argument of we're, we're going to use it appropriately and we're going to protect the innocent. But then big government never stops at that. And then they go to a nanny state and a, and a. The Brits can't even, they have no freedom of speech right now. And it will go too far. It'll start out with good intentions and it'll go too far.

[B]

China's the same way, though.

[A]

Well, now we're gonna say something else, though.

[D]

If you look at how now in Britain, even in the smaller towns, everybody's monitored all the time. What happens when your feelings or your opinions, because you're a voter, you're a citizen, et cetera. What happens when those opinions are no longer popular with whoever's in government?

[A]

That's right. Yeah.

[D]

That's when things are going to go bad.

[A]

Yep, I, I agree with you, man. Great question. Zubi, Hard. What's your take on the House passing the bill to merge our military with Israel? It's expected to pass Senate and with Trump. I was busy on the Veteran act bill. I did not look into that. You know what? Do me, do me a favor, if you don't mind. Do you know about it by chance? Can you look into it and just give us a synopsis of it? Of, of what the, the details of that to take Your time. I'm gonna go over some, but when you're ready, let us know what, what update you have on that again. It's on the House passing the bill. Go back up for me. Magnet to merge our military with Israel. I don't know if we're merging our military with Israel, but if we are, I would have a problem with that. But something tells me if we look in that little deeper, that may not be what's happening, but I don't know. We'll look into it. Hard retard. Again. Can we get your favorite Aussie song for the outro? Yes, you can. And my favorite Ozzy song I think is a little. It's not a little known one, but it's. It's not the normal. He's got some big ones. Crazy train, right?

[E]

Changes.

[A]

It is not. Patient number nine is one of my favorite ones. But you know what? I'm gonna go with Perry Mason. Do you know which one that is? Well, you're about to because for $5, he's gonna win. I'm gonna play it because I want to play it. The crew table's back in. Please shout out World's okayest medic podcast, Mike Carruncio. And man, I hope I was close on that also. As always, Allegiance Inc. There you go. Thank you. Thank you, crew table. Crew table. Back in. First responders and vets on skateboards. Yeah, I think most people don't remember this. When I met DJ Shipley, he had just started Tribe Skates and had a, you know, a skateboarding company. I'm sure he still has that. I doubt he did away with it, but maybe he did. Does. Is. Is he still promoting that?

[B]

I don't know. But after his burner. Wasn't that from the skateboarding.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We were contracting when he wasn't on a contract when that happened, we were still going back and forth on contracts. What is that called where you, you put salt water on wood? I believe it's salt water. And then you hook up like a jumper cables to it and you just put electricity through it and it burns it and it burns it. It makes a really cool like lightning looking effect. And. And when it's done, you can, you know, you can end the. In those burn marks. You can put inlays of. Of resin and it's really cool. And he was holding it and he was going to tell his friend after he was clear of it to turn it on. His friend like just showed up. He's like, hey, can you turn this on for me? But if I remember right, he was like, can you turn on for me assuming like when I tell you to you and his buddy shows up. He's like yeah. And just fried his ass. Like a lightning bolt shot out of his collarbone, his fingertips. It really messed him up. Yeah, I remember that happened. Wiley Coyote. Good to see you brother. Hashtag betrayal. Our men and women hung out to dry by leadership. I know it jumped on you. It'll be easy to find. It's a red one. Got it. There it is. To drive by leadership going along for promotions. Motorhead Ace of Spades for the out. Heck yeah. Another classic. Motorhead Ace of Spades. Elliot, you may remember this may not. Do you remember that I used to like rock music on deployments?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

But what do you. What do you remember about rock music and deployments connected to me?

[D]

I think it was music you were picking at a Christmas party.

[A]

Yeah, I probably did that. Yeah. I probably should have been playing Christmas music. My prices played rock music. Yeah, I just. I lived on. On rock and roll in the gym prior to mission and. And even Christmas parties at the time. You got me. You got rock and roll. There's this.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's all you got? That's all you got. It's a simple man. Simple man. The real Justin G87 I was Iraq, not Afghanistan. But that downfall felt similar. Everything we fought for, tossed away for Politics makes me bitter. And Dems caused both debacles. Not completely wrong. I will say this. People get it wrong. They just do. That happened for a little bit and when ISIS was knocking on Baghdad's door and our zero mean zero and it looked like Iraq was falling and we had to come back in and then kick ISIS's ass and save Iraq. But guess what? Iraq's doing all right. Iraq and Afghanistan are not the same. I've been back to Iraq on a contract. I've been there. The Kurds up north are doing great. They're. They're holding elections. They have a. They. They have a relatively free society for the Middle east that still has way too much Islamic influence into it. But that is. That was. That was not a loss. We didn't lose Iraq. We freedom of a dictator. And they're up and running on their own right now. They are not Afghanistan.

[C]

Yeah, it's completely different. It's a completely different kind of people. Completely different country, completely different infrastructure.

[B]

It's.

[C]

Yeah, it's very different.

[A]

Yeah. Bjorn7926 what does Brent think about Bortak? Former army soft guy. Seemed to talk highly of them. Was wondering if he trained them and what they were like. I have not. Same thing. All my buddies who either did work with them or know about him

[D]

Always

[A]

speak highly of them. But I have. Of all the. Of all the tactical teams I've trained. I have not trained bortac. I was in talks with the BORTAC unit. They just started one up in South Florida. And I was gonna go train with those guys. That had been my first exposure to them. And that's still on the table. So hopefully that happens. But I don't know personally. Holy food. Good to see you, brother. Hi, Chris. It's every time. Every time. Bigfoot or UFOs. Any stories you can share and do you believe.

[C]

Here's the real questions. Bigfoot, no UFOs. Yeah, kinda. I just think. Me personally, I just think the universe is far too big for us to be the only life in. In the entire universe. I just find that very difficult to believe. It's much more likely that there is other life out there and maybe they are giving. Paying us some visits.

[A]

All right, Elliot, how big of a wacko are you? Bigfoot or UFOs?

[D]

Both.

[A]

You got both.

[D]

All right.

[A]

All right, all right.

[D]

I mean, there's a lot of woods out there.

[A]

We all know there's a lot of. There is a lot of woods out

[D]

there and there's a lot of space in space.

[A]

Okay. There's a lot of space in space.

[C]

I will say I don't really believe in Bigfoot, but there's a lot of weird out in the woods. You go deep enough, far enough, long enough, you will run into something that's like, this seems really weird.

[A]

Don't buy the Bigfoot thing as much because I feel like we've been everywhere or close to everywhere on this earth. But. But you get me into some. Well, what about our oceans? I think there's some freaky things in the oceans that we have no idea about. Now that's wildly unexplored, vast, and we don't have enough presence to really know. I. I go down. I can go down that one a little bit more than. Than Bigfoot. Because this is what I always say as well. We. They'd have to die at some point. We. We need the bones. We. We'd see the bones. We'd see the bones. Let's. Blake, you're. You're a man of. Of the woods, I presume.

[E]

Yeah. Growing up in the Appalachian mountains deep, A lot of the people that lived there look like bedfoot. So I'm going to say that I believe.

[A]

Okay. Okay, I believe. All right. But there you go.

[C]

I will say just to bring it home.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[C]

Just bring it home to Louisiana. You ever heard of the. Ever heard of the Lukeroo?

[A]

No, no. Do tell. Through for.

[C]

Basically, it's Louisiana werewolf that hides out in the swamps. And scary thing about the Lucaroo, it doesn't. You don't need to. It doesn't need to touch you. It doesn't need to bite you to transfer the curse.

[A]

Oh, no.

[C]

It just needs to look at you.

[A]

Now, I didn't know, but I am aware there's a leprechaun that hangs around a ghetto somewhere in. In America. Do you remember seeing that viral clip about the leprechaun? And.

[C]

And it sounds familiar, but.

[A]

Oh, you'd know the video if not when this is over. We go to the garage after the show. I'm pulling up the leprechaun. If Drew was here. I won't do it to you, Magnet. I won't ask you to try to pull it up, but do you. Do you know the video I'm talking about? Oh, it's wild. All right, all right. Someone watching gets that reference. I'm certain of it. Joe. There's Yippee Kaye. Before we get past that topic, I live in Kentucky. We knew our mailman for 25 plus years and would send the kids to give them gifts on the holidays. He retired and the new generation seems to shy away from it. That is some of the stuff that things were just better back in the day. And I think that's awesome. But you know what? Bring it back. Bring it back. So, yeah, there's more. There's more families that, that are dual income families. Leave it at your door. Leaving. Go do something. Leave an envelope and say, hey, mailman, thanks for everything you do. What do they say? Rain, rain, sun, sleet, rain or snow. Something like that. I'm just butchered that. Which is horrible, but do it. That doesn't. Doesn't mean you can't do that. Yeah, let's. Let's give some. Let's give some love back to the. The people who, who bring you the mail. Holy fook, Brent. Is squatting the same as sitting the pee? Have you ever had to do a tactical squat to pee on a mission? Outsource outro song pod Youth of nation. I love that. That's an awesome one. No, absolutely not. I. I can, I can understand in some situations now when you're. If you're just getting here, this is this has been a heated debate before. Do you know some men sit to pee and I apologize if you're one of them. I. I just didn't know that.

[C]

I'm not one of them, but I've heard of that.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I don't understand.

[A]

Blew my mind. Elliot, did you know some men sit to pee? That's.

[D]

I did not know that.

[A]

Okay, I know. I. I just didn't know. Blew my mind. Didn't know it was an option. And I'll tell you here where I'm a little bit of an idiot and I should have at least known. And I'm like, no, men do not sit the p. My brother, the wise man, he is. I don't normally sit the pee, but if it's like 2 o' clock in the morning and I'm waking up, I'm not turning on the lights, the pee and waking up, like, I'll sit to pee for that. And I actually felt a little stupid. I'm like, I don't even think of that being an option. I'm just a dumbass. And I just turn on the light and I just do this and I just wake up and, and. And pee. So there are certain situations I still kind of don't do, but I understand if you're outside. No, you do not squat to pee.

[B]

You.

[A]

Even if you're a sit to pee guy on the inside, you better be a stand to pee guy on the outside. I thought I'd get an amen out of that, but. Okay, I just, I'll just take. I just. I just got. I just got a couple head nods and I'll. I'll take that. All right, Chris, Glock or Sig? Do you sit or stand to be? We cover that. Have you ever pulled your taint and all pre qualification questions have a guest on the show, he is correct and yes, youth of the nation. Glock or Sig?

[C]

I have a Glock, so I guess I gotta go Glock. But I do like. I do like and appreciate Sig.

[A]

You can. You can stay. Second half of the show. You can stay. Good job. Good job. Oh, here it come. We'll do. We'll do one. In fact, we'll do two more and then we'll take it to. Take it to halftime magnet. All right, shout out to Chris. B code flippers 382 GSAB. You know what all that means?

[C]

Yes, I do.

[A]

Okay, the old flippers. All right, sab. What is that?

[C]

General support Aviation Battalion. Okay, guys, to fly the Chinooks Blackhawks Apaches For Airborne?

[A]

Heck yeah. Looking to. Colonel Mikins just got promoted to one star and tried to send the 47s at HKA on a doomed mission to Pakistan at the end of the war. Crew said no.

[C]

Yeah. That was a real thing.

[A]

And you didn't tell us about that on the recording?

[C]

We didn't make it that far. But before that was a real thing.

[A]

All right, hold on to that for just a second. I'm a last super chat and we're going to tell that story before. Before the. Before halftime. Got it. Chris, what is your favorite color? Crayon. How many crayons did you have to eat by the drill? 1. And basic training Outro Pod Youth in the nation. Those are real questions.

[C]

I'll go real basic. And to say red like a lot of Marines do.

[A]

And why red? I want to. I want to. I want to act like this is a. A real. A real deep question.

[C]

It's the. Like the. The tartness of it.

[A]

The tartness. Like the blood over enemies. Okay. All right.

[B]

Color of our uniform.

[A]

You know, in fact, I'mma leave you on a little bit of a cliffhanger because now Chris is going to tell us a very cool story about some 47 crews that had the guts to say no to a doom mission right after the break. Stick around. What is it?

[B]

It's not on the screen.

[A]

It's not on the screen. You're good. Gotcha.

[D]

Sorry I left.

[A]

Remember I said. Media assets. We are more than makers of steel. We are brothers in craft, bound by purpose and forged in pride. Every blade we shape carries the weight of the hands that built it and the hearts that will wield it. Brotherhood Blade stands for those who refuse to quit. The protectors, the workers, the doers. We forge with integrity. We carry with pride. And we stand shoulder to shoulder with those who live by the same code. Brotherhood. Blades forged in freedom. Carried with honor.

[D]

Drill Sergeant used to say that to us all the time. Drill Sergeant. I gotta use the rest.

[A]

If you've ever been to any of my tactical training classes, then you know how adamant I am about the use of white light and the importance of a quality high powered tactical light. That's why I use cloud defensive tac lights. You can't hit what you can't see and neither can the bad guys. Clearly identify your target and simultaneously overwhelm his vision with hundreds and even thousands of lumens. Get serious about defending yourself and your family. Go to clouddefensive.com and use promo code tier one to get 30% off your order. That's right, 30%. You won't find a better light than this. And you won't find a better deal than this. Revenge is an act of passion. Vengeance is an act of justice. Injuries are revenged. Crimes are avenged. Almost a century ago, big pharmaceutical companies re engineered medical school curriculum and faculty with one goal. Putting profit before progress. Anyone pushing back against the medical matrix they carefully crafted was threatened, silenced, censored, financially ruined, or worse. They are the problem. We are the solution.

[C]

You're clear to engage.

[A]

Initials Mike G Alpha. You're clear to engage with weapons. You're clear to engage with weapons.

[D]

Okay,

[A]

Here at the Tier 1 podcast, we're excited to have tasty gains as a sponsor, a company with values that aligns with ours. I take their products every day, three times a day. And if it wasn't a product that I didn't take personally and believe in and a company with integrity, then they wouldn't be sponsors on this show. Creatine helps the body produce more ATP, which is an energy molecule that your entire body runs on. It helps improve your physical and mental performance in all aspects of life. Let's be honest, creatine powder sucks to take every day. With the creatine gummies, you can take them with you anywhere. And they taste great. Every batch is third party tested, so you know you're getting exactly what you pay for. Go to tasty gains.com and enter the promo code tier one. That's T I E R, the number one. And get 20 off your order.

[D]

Do you ever live in?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Did you ever live.

[A]

You're asking about the ammunition that was just basically going through people too fast. Essentially, green tip ammunition is not good ammunition for killing people. It's a good combat ammunition because it'll go through things that are, you know, let's say you're hiding behind a car door. That steel penetrator will get right to that car door and still get you. But it's not. It's not the best. It's not the best bullet for killing. Thanks for coming back, guys. As you can see, those are the important questions we cover in the break. And that's the type of people we got here. And I'm proud of that. I'm proud of that type of people we got here. Let's get to it. I want to hear this story about the. About the Chinooks.

[C]

Yeah. So BCO flippers, that's the Chinook company for third gsab. They've been in Afghanistan. I think they got there in March. I have to Go back and listen to recordings to be 100. Sure. But yeah, they were flying Chinooks here and there, all over the country up until August when they got settled in hka, July, August, and selling hk. And as things are wrapping up real quick during the, during the evacuation itself, just shout out to them. They. They're responsible for evacuating about 10, 000 people just on their own.

[A]

Chinooks.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Where to? How. Where are they flying people to? I don't know.

[C]

You know what they're flying people. Ramah, you know Camp Eagle.

[A]

Where's Camp Eagle?

[C]

It's a. It was a soft base up just north of Kabul.

[A]

Okay. I don't remember that one.

[C]

The commandos took it over and so. But there was a lot of people up there, some soft guys with a lot of commandos, and they would fly missions from HKA to Camp Eagle.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And then fly them back.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And then. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what I'm saying. But yeah. So that was about 10,000 people they got out in those flights and that

[A]

they were just going back and forth and back and forth, back and forth. Fourth.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And taking ground fire, usually on the way. Nothing that damaged any of the aircraft. It was as they were going over at night, see the tracers and everything, but it would. Obviously the Taliban or nobody could actually see where they were, so they would like hear the rotors and they would shoot at where they hear the sound. Even though the.

[E]

Too late.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Over here.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But yeah, they got shot and.

[A]

Yep. Keep going.

[E]

As.

[C]

As things are winding down, they're like, okay, well how are we gonna get these. How are we gonna. Here we're gonna break them down and load them up on aircrafts or what's the deal with that? And the idea got proposed by Colonel and that they were going to fly the Chinooks as far as they could until they ran out of gas into Pakistan, into the northern part of Pakistan where they would land and get picked up by the Pakistani military to be picked up at a date to be determined.

[A]

I, I don't even know where to start with that. The fact that you said that with a straight face.

[C]

I've heard the story a couple of

[A]

times and just makes me feel like that wasn't a joke, that that was the actual story.

[C]

That was the plan. It did. It didn't happen that way, thankfully.

[B]

Right.

[A]

People over hardware. When did we lose that concept? People over hardware. That is insane. And that's. That's just another. I don't know what happened to that guy. I hope one of his bosses heard that and said, and you no longer work for the military. But I doubt anything happened to that idiot.

[C]

But no, I don't think anything. I don't think anything happened to her.

[A]

It was a female. Yeah, the jokes write themselves.

[C]

I'm not saying anything.

[A]

I'm not either. I know that's not. No, I'm not saying anything.

[C]

But yeah, all. Basically all the pilots and the air crews push backed on it and they're like, yeah, that's a stupid ass plan. We're not doing that. And after a little back and forth, they ended up breaking down the aircraft and loading them onto the C17s and flying out.

[B]

I.

[A]

That story makes my blood boil. That's so crazy. It's so crazy.

[C]

Anyway, all right, before I. Yeah, that.

[A]

Before I get myself and you in trouble with the things I'm thinking of. That story.

[C]

Yeah, that and the 80 seconds plan to parachute into Kabul and Bagram.

[A]

What was there? Go on.

[C]

This was a legit plan. When the 82nd first got called up on August 12, originally they were going to. Part of the brigade was going to drop into Kabul, secure the airport, and the other part of the brigade was going to drop into Bagram, retake Bagram, and then whoever was in Kabul and in the HK was going to retake Kabul, fight north, and whoever's in Bagram was going to fight south, and they were going to link up, have a

[A]

highway and have a line as a

[C]

communication, and then use both Bagram and HKA to evacuate.

[A]

It's not a bad plan, actually.

[C]

But it would have been a really bad day for the airborne. Just saying. They would have done it enthusiastically, but

[A]

it would have done it enthusiastically, but

[C]

it would have been a really bad day for the airborne.

[A]

Yeah. Briefs. Well, the, the problem with that is, is this. It's. It, it. Does it breeze well. And I've been in a unit where they think you can do everything and they have kind of these wild ideas and then we come in and go, why don't we just land? Like you, you could have, like, you could have got the same results with a much, much lower risk operation. If that's, if that's really the end result you wanted, you didn't, you didn't have to do it that way, but would have been a cool jump for the 82nd. Yeah, yeah. Hey, yeah, that's right. So some general, some colonel wanted a mustard stain so bad he could taste it and was like, the. Don't, don't worry, we'll lose a few Men so I could have a combat jump under my command. And that sounds. That's a half joke, but let me tell you, that's. That's how bad I've seen it before.

[C]

I had to hear that story from three different people before I believed it was real, including a battalion commander.

[A]

Wow. Let's see, Ny Babs. How hard is it to get two headshots before they hit the ground? Rob says he did it despite the piss bottle. Oh, you can. You can double tap in a matter of tenths of a second. You can. You can absolutely get that, get that done. It just. In that scenario, it just didn't happen. Which. So that's what makes. That's what makes those two headshots impossible, because that scenario never happened. So that. That's usually going to throw a wrench and those possibility plans. But it. It can. It could have. It could have happened, just not the way Rob says it happened. Glaucoma 4 20. Rob's ridiculous conspiracy theories are on the same. Are one in the same with Nate's from Valhalla. I'll give you that.

[E]

And I'll.

[D]

I'll.

[A]

I'll tell. Me and Nate have had it out on the phone and in person. We're friends. And. And that's kind of what I love about Nate. And you guys don't see that part of it because you just see him talking into a mic and maybe being boisterous or not liking his take. But, you know, I. I get to talk to him, heavily disagree with them, and then have my stance. Him have his stance, and then. And then we're still friends in the day. And that's really what we've lost as a country, to have a different view and not walk away from it and going, oh, yeah, well, you're an idiot. Well, you're an idiot. You actually believe that you're the. And the names and the names go. And so that's. I don't agree with everything Nate puts out, but he can defend it in his own logical way. And I do. I know that sounds weird, but even when the left does it, I still. I don't want to use the word admire. Respect it. I don't respect anyone with an opinion that's just based off of emotions. If you have a reason, you believe it, even if I don't agree with your reason. But I can connect it and be like, all right, I see how you believe that.

[E]

I'll.

[A]

I'll respect that. And that's. And that's what Nate does. But the intent is Wildly different. Rob does all of his stuff for personal gain and Nate truly believes what he. What he puts out. TG para 2786 hack was offered a commander position over all Green Grays in Thailand minutes before the interview. He was also a shoe in for a brigade commander position and chose to stand in the door for the boys.

[C]

Damn.

[A]

Tell you I'm. But when I read his book, I don't know. I'm gonna start making David Hackworth posters or something. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta get this guy's name back in the veterans mouths and in their thoughts and, and be remembered for the things he's.

[B]

He's done.

[A]

I can't. I can't wait to. To read his book. Robert Miller5025 I saw a video saying that Tyler Hoover was suing you over your TRT company and the middle of the Rob suit. I would like to hear your side because things said about you wasn't great. That's okay.

[B]

Actually.

[A]

Cooler heads have prevailed and. And that lawsuit is no more. And everything got settled on that. So I'm. I'm back down to just one lawsuit. Did I, did I miss one? Thank you. Got it. Tyler Austin Music Tier 1 live. My ass is ready. My stepson asked me if I knew Rob o' Neal and I was like yeah. And he said he's a dude that lies about killing UBL. A 14 year old even knows Rob is full of shite. Keep killing it, brother.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Sorry I was. That's probably not professional to, to, to, to take joy and that. All right, let's go back to. We see we get through a few more super chats, if you don't mind. Then we'll get back to. I'll let you find. I'll let you find the super chats. We'll get back to it. Elliot, have you found our answer? Are. Does Trump want us to join the. The Israeli and American military together as one?

[D]

No. So the House passed its 1.15 trillion National Defense Authorization act and bring the

[A]

mic in just a little closer.

[D]

So basically critics are looking at a merger, but what it is is sharing technology which we've been doing for quite a while. So what it does is it puts.

[A]

We've been doing that for a long time.

[D]

Yeah. So it puts somebody doing oversight of what's being shared and everything else.

[A]

So that's such, that's such a stretch. I hate it when they do that. And I'm not saying that my listener like intentionally did that more than likely. My guess is he heard what someone else said about it. And something tells me if you google it that way, you may get the results that way. So you really have to be careful of how you search things. But to share technology, like you said, that is nothing new. Where do you think they got the Iron Dome? From us. We share technology. Where do you think they got their fighter jets? From us. We share technology. We've got some really cool technology that I can't exactly talk about that we got from them. That it's not just a one way street and we've been doing that for a long time. Of course I'm going to get plastered as an Israeli lover. I'm not. That's. I'm just telling you those are things that, that have happened and have always happened. And do they spy on us? Yes, and I wish they wouldn't. I don't think allies should spy on us. But I've gone down that road before. So do the French, so do the Canadians. So do we on them. And we spy on the French and we. So when you hear those things, I understand why it makes you upset about it. But when you've lived in this world and you know that it just, it happens everywhere, it's just, it's not such a shocker. What you got?

[E]

I was gonna play devil's advocate. Sure. Charlie Kirk situation you were speaking about.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Do it.

[E]

I think it's gonna come up in the comment because the Israelis did the cell phone, the pagers, which would play a very similar role in the mic.

[A]

Sure.

[E]

That Charlie Kirk was. You see what I'm trying to say?

[A]

How old are you, if you don't mind asking?

[E]

28.

[A]

28. Are you a pager age? Do you remember having a pager?

[E]

No.

[A]

Okay, that's. But you know what a page.

[E]

I know what a pager is. Yes. I never had one, but yes.

[A]

If you had to guess, what do you think? Percentage wise or like by. By. By a multiplication factor, how much bigger a pager is than a lapel mic? Twice as big.

[E]

Probably so.

[C]

Way better.

[E]

Probably so. Yeah.

[A]

Probably ten times bigger.

[E]

Okay, you guys take it easy on me.

[A]

No, it's okay. Yeah, I knew it.

[E]

I knew it when I was born in 1997.

[A]

I know. I knew when I asked your age, like, ah, this isn't going to go where I was. He's probably seen a pager before. The truth is you may have never even seen a pager. Have you ever seen a working telephone? Like public pay phone booth?

[E]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You ever use one?

[B]

No.

[A]

No. Then how'd you know it was working.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

I did. I'm gonna just. You want the mic back?

[A]

No, that's. I. I mean, I didn't mean to do that to you. I didn't mean to do that to you. But no, I. That is. That is a valid qu. And people, like, might ask that, and that would. That would be my answer. Like, you can. You can get. There's a lot more space in a pager than there is a lapel mic. The glaucoma 420. Is that where we're at?

[D]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Did I stop? Well, we. We got that answered. Sorry, hamster fall off the wheel for a second. I want to make sure we close that out before I jump back to the super chats. Did we.

[D]

I think we answered it.

[A]

Okay. All right, Flock cameras. Then it's Palantir Patriot Act 2.0. And then China's social credit score. I'll give you a good example of that. And I believe. I believe it was Rand Paul who said this, but I could be. I could be wrong. But anyway, he was against the no fly List, a terrorist controlled no fly list. And I was like, ooh, that's pretty crazy. That seems pretty straightforward. And he goes, here's the reason I'm against it, because it's not specific enough. It just. It essentially just says, anyone who's an enemy of this nation or deemed to be an enemy of this nation, and it's a terrorist no fly list. And he says, based how it's written now, this was. Wasn't that long ago. The government deems the number one threat to itself domestically as right, right wing, veteran white people. So what happens when they get into control and they start deeming them terrorists? And now, because we didn't. We didn't use proper terminology, we didn't define this well enough, now you have these people who should have never been on there as terrorists. And I was like, that's. That's actually brilliant. And that's. That's what we need from our politicians, because it's one of those things. And it's short. It's short term or immediate sense. Kind of like the patriarch, which opened up some. Some doors that seemed really good at the time. And I'm not saying that I was over there saying I was against it at the time there, but anytime you give up your control and you give up your securities, you will give up your freedom.

[E]

It's.

[A]

It's just. It's. It's connected. Speaking of founding fathers, who is our founding father that said those who will give Up.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

What do you say? Liberties. Those who will give up their liberties for security deserve neither liberty nor security. Butchering it.

[C]

But it's also Ben Franklin.

[A]

That was Ben Franklin as well. That little fat sex fiend. He was smart with words.

[C]

He's got a lot of one liners.

[A]

He's got a lot of one line. He used a lot of one liners on those French ladies too. He's got a. He's got some wild stories. He was a wild man. Wild man. Anyway, so that's. That. That's true. That's true.

[E]

Right.

[A]

Speaking of terrorists. Right wing nut. Right wing nut. You would be a terrorist. According to some people on the left just with that name. I remember when people thought the hatred act was thing. There goes right. Right in line with it. I kept trying to tell them they will eventually use that as a tool against all of us government flocks.

[D]

It's.

[A]

It's true. Right? Yeah. We. And we just discussed that a magnet you may have already. Don't forget to remind it to. To like and subscribe every. Every now and again. So I don't have to say that out loud because I just. I just against everything in my body to say like and subscribe but just. Oh, I don't know. I don't like it. But if magnet pushes a button, I'm okay with that. Just another beat. Quick check in. Really not a fan. He's got fomo. He's got some fomo. I get it. And there is again one mo. Again because FOMO is real. I just said that. Old where boy 5192. I cannot thank Chris enough for his work with the last deployment project. Everyone should check out and follow his page. Love you, brother. I'm telling you, it brings up such an emotional connection with vets and you doing this project. I think you're gonna have more success than. Than you ever imagined doing this.

[C]

Yeah, I hope so. And yeah. Thanks brother. That's. That's my old mechanic.

[A]

Is it really?

[C]

Yeah, he's my old mechanic. He worked on my vehicles and kept us out of the hangar.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm telling you I've tried to. And you're already. You're already on. On the path doing it. You've talked to 84 different people and. And you're gonna. And you're gonna keep talking to people and just continuing to gather information at. At some point. You. And I'm. You've already run into this. I'm certain of it. Where you compile so much information. You're like, how how do I. How do I. How do I tell the story with this much. You know, what's the. What. What are the. In what sequence? And what way is it gonna. Can I tell it to make sense? I think that'll be your.

[B]

Your.

[A]

Your hardest. Your hardest hurdle. But you can do that.

[C]

Yeah, that and just the. I mean, there is a page limit for the book.

[A]

What is it?

[C]

I don't know if I can talk about that.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

There's. There's a page limit for the book. And the bad thing for me really

[A]

is, like, blink your eyes.

[C]

I'm gonna have to.300. I'm gonna have to cut. I'm gonna have to really pick and choose whose stories I get to put in there. I don't want to feel. I want anybody to feel like they're getting left out. I'll put as many as I can in there and. Yeah.

[A]

And I. I already spend as little time as you as I have, but it's easy to. To know until what kind of man you are. Already know. That's. That's probably going to be one of your toughest decisions. Deciding whose stories are worth keeping. Because that's what it feels like.

[D]

You're.

[A]

It feels like you're saying your stories are worth keeping and your stories aren't worth keeping. Although that's not what you're doing. That's how it feels, you know, when you start having to. To make those tough decisions.

[C]

Yeah. I do not hope people don't feel that way. It's not my.

[A]

Yeah, well, this. This episode will more than likely be watched by millions, so everyone will get the message. So don't worry. The word. The word just got put out, so that won't happen. Maybe billions. It's. It's a beautiful podcast. The. There it is. Brody Martin Flock cameras have more restrictions in blue states than red ones. That's enough reason for me to say I'm good with them. It's just the tag on your car. I don't think it's government overreach. F. Red light cameras, though. All right, let me. Let me. Let me get this off my chest real quick. I was in a friend's vehicle. I'm out of town. I didn't know I was in a school zone. Sometimes you see them, you don't know, and it's summer, so there's no, like, indication. Sometimes you know one's coming up because you see the. The crossing guards, you know, or other people are slowing down because they're. They know they're in the school. Zone. I don't even know I'm in the school zone. I'm 48, 35. At some point in the school zone, I see someone else going slow, and so I'm like, that's weird. So I do go slower, and then I do see the sign way down there that says in the school zone. And I go, okay, you know what my friend got about a week during the mail? A speeding ticket for $100. Now, there's no points assessed. They can't really assess points because they don't know who was driving the vehicle, but they know it's your vehicle, and they're saying you are responsible for that vehicle. That person got sent $100 ticket. I loathe that. That's insane.

[D]

How.

[A]

What. How can you do that? How is that? Okay? And I have a problem with red light cameras for the same reasons. I have a. I have a problem with meter maids that give up parking tickets. And they aren't law enforcement. They are private companies that are hired by the city to give you a parking ticket. Well, I got a problem with that. How are you enforcing the law if you're not law enforcement officer? And if you're being paid by the city as a private contractor to do this, you're incentivized to give out as many tickets as possible because that's your job. I have a major problem with our whole system of. Of that type of nanny state when it comes to ticketing cars. You got. You got me on one right there. Go back a little bit. I want to see. You said something about. About the flock cameras have more restrictions in blue states and red ones. That's enough reason for me to say I'm good with them. It's just the tag on your car. That's a little bit of the argument we're making to some degree. It's just the tag on your car now. And that's what people. That's what the government has shown itself to be. It has shown a propensity to take a little bit that you gave it, and then it's going to take a lot more. And that's what people are concerned about. And they. And they should be. The government should. Has a history of doing that. Take our whole tax system, for example. Our whole tax system started pretty small. And everything you do is taxed. What you make is tax. What you spend is taxed. The roads, your gas is taxed. Your house is taxed. Tax on tax, on tax, on tax, on tax. All right, Brad Freeman. I've got a kid from A failed pullout. They never go as plan. Okay, yeah, that's. I see what you did there. I see what you did there, Brad. A Wile E. Coyote.

[E]

Good one.

[A]

I say good one. I guess someone said this to. On Joe Rogan's show once, and now everyone thinks it's. It's a thing. Except people who've actually been to Afghanistan. He was there.

[E]

Who?

[B]

Joe Rogan, the guy that was on the podcast.

[A]

Okay, I'm. I'm sure he was. I'm surprised.

[B]

Joe Rogan's podcast. How dare you.

[A]

High as a kite or something. But let me just. Let me tell you, doesn't mean that I've met everyone and that I've been everywhere in Afghanistan. But I'm just telling you, I've never met anyone that's ever seen a giant in Afghanistan, and I haven't either, personally. And, Chris, I hope you're not one that did that. I'm look like a fool for everything I just said, but I'm pretty confident. Have you ever met a giant in Afghanistan?

[C]

Well, I never. I never went to Afghanistan, so there

[A]

was a yes or no question,

[D]

but

[C]

no, I've never heard of giants and giants in Afghanistan. The only things I've heard that are giant Afghanistan are the mountains and the dogs.

[A]

The dogs. You know, I was thinking that as I was telling that story, I was like, I'll tell you what is big in Afghanistan. Some of their dogs.

[C]

Yeah, I had a big. Yeah, I've had a combat instructor in boot camp. And Right. Recent. This was like the thing he got hung up on whenever he was giving us a lecture. We're talking about the. The werewolves in Afghanistan. The dogs.

[A]

They're big. Yeah, I've had them chase me on four wheelers. I've. I'd. This is gonna upset some people, but they're aggressive, too. I put down a dog before I put down a human in. In combat.

[B]

They're.

[E]

They're.

[A]

They're big and they're. They're aggressive.

[C]

And there was a. A story from the withdrawal. Some of the 10th Mountain guys were at Camp Morehead, just south of Kabul.

[A]

I do know where that's at.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, they were there and they had a bunch of dogs running around, as you do. And they had one dog they called a Big Red. And Big Red had a very particular taste, a very particular diet. And whenever they tried to get him off of that diet, he would just reject it. They would try to give him, like, scraps from the chow hole and stuff like that. Chicken, beef, whatever. No big Red loved eating other dogs, specifically puppies.

[A]

I tell you, it's not just the people. It's the dogs too. They're just. It's. They're just savages. They're just savages.

[B]

Well, Brent, everybody is a giant compared to me, so.

[A]

That's. That's true. That's true. But at 58, 6, 6, 5.

[E]

I'm.

[B]

I'm 5 something.

[A]

Oh, 5 something. Yeah, we've. We've brought this up before. The average height of a American male. Do you know you, Elliot, what do you think the average height of an American male is?

[D]

Five, eight.

[A]

It is five, eight.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's crazy to me. Like, you see a five, eight male. Like, that's kind of on the short side. It's not like abnormally short. Don't get me wrong. It's not like I see a 5, 8 male and I'm like, you know, what's up? Like, it's. You're just a little on the short. That is the average size. Not. I was taken. I was taken back by that little bit. I think I can still remember. You want to know the average height of the American female is

[D]

5, 2,

[A]

5 3, if I remember right. Almost positive that it's 5'3. And I dated a girl in high school that was 5'3 and I thought she was short, but no, apparently that is average height.

[B]

You call me.

[A]

I call you a lot of things.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

I call you a lot of things. Back at it. Just another 11B. Just handed Chris Jansen two Bravos. Frcc for the win. Thank you, sir. Right wing gun nut. Hey, Chris, I'm a Louisiana boy too. I'm 10 minutes from Fort Polk. How about you?

[C]

I'm not anywhere near Fort Polkin.

[A]

Good for you.

[C]

For the things I've heard about Fort Polka, you won't catch me dead near Fort Polk.

[A]

Ella, did you ever go to Fort Polk?

[D]

I did back in the 90s.

[A]

Back in the 90s, what, what, what unit were you with then? What'd you do?

[D]

325 infantry.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

We jumped in and did a rotation.

[A]

Did you really? How'd you like it?

[D]

It's called Sleazeville for a reason,

[A]

you know. Do you remember what rank you were or roughly what rank you were?

[D]

E3 or E4. I think it was an E3.

[A]

Okay. Because I'm actually starting to think it's one thing play those games as a senior guy. Like it's. You kind of. You see through it a little bit. But as he. As a young man, I Mean, as a private, it might be fun to play war game, you know? How'd you. How'd you view it then?

[D]

It was very fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I enjoyed all rotations. Plus we had 2nd Ranger Battalion with us or. Well, yeah, they weren't with us.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean? Yeah.

[D]

And they just wanted to fight the whole time after the rotation, so it was a blast.

[A]

Do you remember how long it was? How long were you in the box?

[D]

We were only in the box 10 days, I think it was. 10 days.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And kind of.

[A]

I've heard some pretty. I've heard some long stays in there, but yeah, 10 days is pretty normal. But I've heard some putting in a mini deployment, depending on what they're there for.

[D]

Overrun us with tanks on the last day. Oh, really? You're waiting for.

[A]

Yeah. You. You remember this? I think it was. Was it on that rotation? I think it was. Where'd we. We didn't go to. Where'd we go for our train up. We did something like that. It was the one out in California. The. The Marine base. What's it called? 29 palms.

[B]

That's it.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

The one in the desert.

[A]

The desert one. It's like the JRTC of the desert. But what's it. What's it called? ITX ITX Something.

[C]

Well, it's the training exercise.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. And what's that little town right outside? It's like Barto or something like that. Do you remember? You may. You may not have ever been there, but.

[C]

No, I've actually been Barstow.

[A]

Barstow, Is that what it is? Barstow?

[C]

Yeah, I've been. I've been to Barstow once. And once was enough. Once was more than enough, actually.

[A]

Yeah, that was. That was a good one. I mean, we were an SF unit, but they had been doing that for years. It was kind of, you know, several years in the G. W.A.T. and they had a lane that was really set up specifically, like, for sf and they had intel and you had, you know, human, you know, and they had role players that were. That were good with a good backstory and if you ask the right questions and they were logical ones, sometimes you do it like. I was supposed to ask that. That was stupid. I'd never asked that. Like, it was. It was well thought out. When we got done with that, exiles, like, that was a really good. A really good realistic exercise. I did get in trouble. I haven't thought about this in forever. We. We hit a target and we went in and they had non combatant role players. I Didn't know who this role player was. I was just going to my corner. We were. They were walking towards me and so I grabbed them and I. I threw the person against the wall. Now, don't get me wrong, I know this is a role player, so it's not like choke slamming them, like, without regard. I know this is an American, but at the end of the day, I'm still a little bit forced because I'm running hard, clearing this building. So, you know, I wasn't. I wasn't going through, but I was forceful for ended up being this young lady and we got. The whole team got pulled to the side and this lady said that I. That. And she even pointed me out that I was overly aggressive with her and she thought it was because she was a female. And I was like, I. I actually didn't even know it was a female. I. I'm surprised she could even point me out. It was a little bit of a dark room, but that was that. Anyway, that happened and then we went to Vegas after that. That's much better story than rough female in the house. But that. That is Patreon only material right there. It was. It was a slightly. It was like. It was almost the SF version of the Hangover. It was that fun. All right, we got here. TBDCR. You guys see that interview with Chris McCoy on the Vanguard podcast? Guy had some choice words for the Seals song Many Men. Yo, I. I'm not against 90s and even some early 2000s rap. I'm. I'm hoping we've never had. We've never had one of those type songs, whatever that means. Make it to the outro. So I appreciate that. Many men, 50 cent. No, but I've watched a little bit. I don't watch a lot of podcasts, oddly enough. I subscribe all my friends podcasts, you know, Andy Stump, Nate from Valhalla. I'm trying to think of a few more that I should subscribe to, but it's not many. And I just. I just like to see what guests they have and what they're up to. And, you know, I, I like to keep up with them and see, you know, how they're doing. Honestly, I watch it as a fan rooting for and hoping that they. They have big episodes. But I don't really watch a lot of podcasts. Most podcasts I watch and I, I talked before our podcast. I'll watch podcasts of my guests so I can hear your story, you know, in a. In a short version. So I watched a podcast that you were on where I'll watch, you know, podcasts of that my guests have been a. A guest on. If that's not confusing enough, do you

[E]

watch the Operator podcast?

[A]

I. I watch it now. The Operator podcast, I believe that's put on by the Onion. It's like a satire podcast of. Of a. Like a. Was that a real podcast? Yeah, I thought it was satire. Was Rob o' Neill being serious the whole time?

[E]

Yeah, I thought you. I didn't know if you knew him.

[A]

That is embarrassing. I honestly thought that was a satire podcast. I didn't know that.

[E]

I didn't mean to bring it up.

[A]

I didn't know that was his real attempt at podcasting.

[E]

Yeah, he tells real stories.

[A]

All right, because I. It's funny you mentioned that, because I just watched one today, and it had 600 views, and I was like, oh, he's not very good at comedy. And I thought it was like a comedy, like, satire thing that he was failing at, but that was a real podcast.

[E]

Yeah, yeah. He. He won't mention this podcast by name, but.

[A]

And I love it. I love it that he won't mention this podcast by name because he doesn't want to give us the click and the views. When you get more views bigger than he's ever been.

[D]

It's.

[A]

He's so full of him. I love it. I do.

[D]

I love it.

[A]

I love. I love the confidence, Rob. I love the confidence. Whether. Whether it's grounded in. Whether it's grounded in truth or not.

[E]

I may be the next one on the list. So I need some help, if you don't mind.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

If I get a lawsuit against me.

[A]

For sure. For sure. I've. I've. I'm. I'm. I'm well versed at this point. Like I said, we're back down to one, so we're good. TG Para. Thank you again, Chris. This book means a lot to the H K H Kia Vets and to Echo 2504, the most proud and most disgusted I've ever been to be an American. A man. How's. How. How is that to kind of wrap up probably some of the boys, you know, feelings? The most proud and most disgusted he's ever been to be an American at hka. You know, you're there next to the boys.

[E]

You.

[A]

You're. You're protecting people. You're protecting each other. You're getting tons of innocent people out. You're doing good things. At the same time, you're part of America's biggest military disaster to. To Some degree. And I'm sure that that feeling of doing great things while doing it as a part of a massive military debacle has to be some sort of, you know, constant struggle with the boys that were there.

[C]

Yeah, that kind of gets into something I. I tell all the guys that I interview towards the end and we kind of talked about earlier in the chorus that went over part of it. Like, there's two narratives when it comes to the withdrawal in Afghanistan, and one is kind of like what we talked about before was the narrative of failure at the political level, strategic level, the foreign policy level, because obviously it's a failure, because otherwise. One was. Otherwise we either still be there or the government we were supporting was still being. Still be in power. Neither, which is true. So obviously failure there. The second narrative and the one that I focus on with the project and everything is the narrative success, which is just pulling something decent and good out of an incredibly shitty situation. And that's only thanks to the men and women who are on the ground getting those people through the. Getting the process, getting them on planes, getting them out of there. And that success belongs to them and them alone.

[A]

So that's. Man, that's true. And it. I'm. You brought that up, sir, and I'm glad you bring that up as well. It's so easy to focus on the negative and what a disaster it was because like I said, it's emotional to us vets, and so that's what we focus on. But the good work that also was done there. Do you know roughly how many people they got evacuated during that time frame?

[C]

I don't know a specific number. I'm not sure anybody who does. I wish there was a specific number, but generally speaking, it's about like 124, 125,000 people.

[D]

Right?

[A]

What the large.

[C]

I'm pretty sure that is the. That's the largest air evacuation in human history.

[A]

And you don't want else that. And this isn't just blind American pride. This is the logistical power of the United States military. I don't think there's another country in the world that could have come close to those numbers, even come close to them. Our air power, the amount of C17s we have, the. Just the constant in, out back and forth, back and forth. Could you. You know, people look at it as a failure because it, because it could have happened better. We should always strive to.

[C]

To.

[A]

To be. Strive for perfection. And, and, and we missed that. We missed that mark. But you're absolutely right, what with the American Military at the same time accomplished there. No other military could have accomplished under those circumstances. Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad someone brought that up actually, because that's. It's. It's easy to lose that. That's awesome.

[C]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know who that was, but, yeah, he was with a code 2504. And they were the first guys from the 82nd on the ground in HK Heck yeah.

[A]

Chris, did any other nations help during the U. S. Withdrawal from Afghanistan in August 2021? I believe the UK sent in 1, 000 soldiers of 16 Air Assault Brigade to assist Ultrasong Pod youth. Excuse me, Youth of a nation. Holy fook. Really wants that.

[E]

All right.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of partner nations. It really was like, obviously the United States was the biggest element there and we were doing. Doing a lot of the work, but there were a lot of partner nations there, definitely. The UK with 16th Air Assault Brigade, the British paratroopers, they helped out a lot at Abbeygate and they even set up a intake and processing center at the Baron hotel, which is right across the street from Abbey Gate. They basically own that the entire time. And yeah, they got a lot of people out through them. First, first second parachute battalions, There was an engineer battalion that was there as well. And I think some supporting elements too, with especially through the raf. French were there, Germans were there. Azerbaijanis were there. Interesting one. Poles were there. Italians were there. Had a pretty good size footprint and a bunch of other ones. A lot of NATO countries had at least some small footprint and even the Russians showed up at one point.

[A]

All right, and here's. Here's one that I've been very critical of, of most of the Middle east when it comes to. Almost none of them took any immigrants from Syria when ISIS went through. They never really take care of their own problems. Why is the west always coming over and kind of when there's a major problem and taking care of them, Rarely do they take in what they don't. They don't take in anyone. And the UAE is a little bit of an exception to that. They gave planes and they ferried people back and forth during the, the. The official. If I remember the numbers right from talking to. To people who were there, they got out 6, 000 people by themselves. Now they had. They had refugee camps within their country, but then they had to go forward to Europe at, at some point, so they couldn't stay in their country. But this is part of my, you know, my disgruntledness with them. Why is it that Western nations always have to take on the immigrants of, of these other countries when they would be better aligned in Middle Eastern countries? They're out of their element in Germany, they're out of their element in America. You're putting them in countries they don't speak the language. Their religion isn't our religion. Their ways and their, their morals don't line up with our ways and morals. We have separation of church and state. If, if they're, if they're Muslim and most of them are, their church and state are closely intertwined together within, within their, and so they just don't, that's the reason they don't assimilate well over here. And I have a problem with the Middle east never taking on some of the problems and taking these people in. Why is it that we always have to, to be the, the ones who take on immigrants? It's kind of a rhetorical question. I don't necessarily need an answer for it, but it is, it is something that I wish we would push harder, harder for. We don't have to be everyone's answer. Other people can step up and, and help out during, during disastrous times. And, and they need to. And if they won't because we will, well then why would they. Because like, ah, American, Europe, they'll, they'll take them. So why would they take them? And if their own people don't want them, then why would we want them? That's not hate speech. That's an honest question. That's all that is. Glaucoma 4:20. Is it feasible for Trump to end this Iran side quest by midterms? Do you think it hurts Republican win regardless if Iran conflict is done or, or not? If it's not done, yeah, I do think it, it hurts the midterms if it's not done. And we're, let me say, a little bit different. But you don't, you do it. You do the right thing. And the right thing is not to end it early. So it's looks good for a win and it looks good for a political victory. And you, and you basically just kick the can down the road and it's a facade of a win and we kind of did all that for nothing. If you're going to do it, finish it and finish it right. And if we pay the price of the midterms, and we pay the price of the midterms for doing the right thing. But I do think the American people will reward you for doing the right thing. But you have to explain to them why it's the right thing. And Republicans in general just aren't really good with their messaging all the time. And, and that is. And if they, and if they do pay the price, it's because you didn't get the messaging out and explain to them why. Why this needed to be done. And I could, and I could sit there, and I've done it on this podcast before. I could sit here and talk for the next 10 or 15 minutes of why, of why it's a good thing. But that's, but that's, that's on them to get that information out to, to the voters. So I do think it will hurt them, but if it does, it'll hurt them because they didn't get on the same sheet of music and they didn't get the messaging out of why this is good. There's another problem that's just that you can't get around gas prices. That is something that just hurts Americans. And if we can't do something to get gas prices down and if gas prices are up, whether they get the messaging out or not, that's, that's going to hurt. And we're not that reliant on overseas oil. We've. We've got to do a better job. There is a, There is a time we were net neutral on the needs of, of, of oil here in this country. At the end of Trump's first term, we can get that way again. We can get oil from Venezuela. I think we just, I think they just owe us one. I think they got. I think we can get oil from them if we want, or we'll kidnap their next president. That's a joke, kind of. But let's tackle that. That'll. That'll definitely help and we can get there. I think I, And, But I think it's. I think it's feasible to end it before the midterms. I do. Let the military loose. Let the military loose and you'll get results. Just don't restrict our military. I think our military is pretty awesome when you just. When you tell them what the end state is and don't tell them how to do it. You agree with that?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I feel like the whole military, we. I mean, that's what I ran off of when I was in. And I'm sure you did and everybody else did. Commander's intent.

[A]

Commander's intent.

[C]

What's the desired end state? All right. Figure it out.

[A]

Yep. Don't hold back our military. They'll get it done. When all these words are Together, the half acre Pasture. You need to get the guy from Rosalie's Blue Cord Barbecue on. I served with him in Afghanistan. He received a Bronze Star with valor and earned every bit of it. To this day, 14 years later, he's still taking care of the guys. He's a true leader and it's just a cool effing dude. Rosalie's Blue Cord Barbecue. Ever heard of that by chance? Anyone? Well, we're gonna find out. We are going to find out about this man. Hey, and if you could, the Half Acre Pasture. If you're still watching, if you want to give us his contact information, email us at the tier one. Number one. The tier one podcastmail.com so we can get a hold of him. That'll always help out. I think I jumped one or two. Oh, no, he's. He's just in there again. That's Rosler's Blue Cord Barbecue. Okay, got it. The Diving Bee. I just got on. So not sure if it's been addressed. Not taken aside. Not taking aside thoughts on Matt saying point man pushed and tackled women for possible svest srs Sean Ryan show 153 mark but on cleared hot says point man never tackled anyone. No intel on Svest has contra. Has contradicting accounts. I haven't addressed that. Of Matt saying point man pushed and tackled women for possible FS on Sean Ryan but uncleared hot says point man never tackled anyone. No intel. I he. That's true and not true. Now you can debate like the. The s vest thing if you want. I don't know. But the story is the same of. He does say that. That on. On Rob's story that he went after the women and. And pushed them.

[B]

That's.

[A]

That's Rob's story. He also said that he. His argument was. And he said it over and over again was who doesn't follow his shots. I don't know if you guys watched the that, but he went over. What tier one guy doesn't follow his shots. What. Not just tier one. What assaulter at any level doesn't follow him. So I'm sure he went into the room and followed his. His shots, which would have put him into the room. His big thing was Rob. Rob is vague whether he came into the. Whether red the point man came into the room with him or whether he stayed in the hallway. I know way too much about this. I can go on this for, you know, for a while. You can take it a step back. Rob says he's the only one that says there's a Curtain on top of the stairs. And he also says it's a very dark night, it's a very low loom nights. Why they went, well, if it's a dark night and there, there's a curtain at the top of the stairs, I questioned that right off the bat. So that's really weird. I've been in houses all over the world. I've never seen curtains at the top of the stairs. I've seen curtains for, I've seen curtains for doors, if you will. I say a curtain, you know, the same like fabric type drape. I've seen curtain for front doors, I've seen it for bedroom doors. Never seen it for a stairwell. But if that's true, then you have never been able to see through that curtain, to see shadows moving around behind it. It's a curtain. You can't see through it. I can't see through that right there because I don't know. That's how curtains work. So there's a bunch of things that, that don't add up. And I think that's, that's, that's almost here nor there. I can. At the end of the day, the two big points is this. Matt says, read the point man killed bin Laden. And that's what everyone I've ever talked to said. And then Rob says, no, he and he alone killed bin Laden all by himself in the room and nobody else did it. And those should be really, Those are only two points. You really have to argue. AA, A, N9, P1Z. Do you think the left being so brainwashed by Palestine propaganda is from Iran or other Muslim countries that want to see Israel weaken in the Middle East? Also, is Israel our forward operating base? We've never really used Israel as a forward operating base. We've, we've, we've, we've leapfrogged out of a couple Ford operating base throughout the Middle east. And to my knowledge, I, I don't believe we've used them. We, we kind of don't, don't have to. I would love to blame someone else, like other countries or Iran or Muslims for getting our dumb liberal college kids to cheer and throw themselves on the ground for Palestine, but I think, I think liberals do that all, all by themselves without any help. I, I would love to blame someone else for that, but I think we only have us and bad parenting to blame. Yep, I got that one. Bobby Martin, Sharks in the water. One of my favorite tier one podcast stories. CSM Sean Keane was a solid episode. Yes, he was. Elliot, you worked directly for Sean, is that correct?

[D]

He is the coolest human being.

[A]

You were there in. In J and J. Bad. Correct. On a daily basis with the man. And he was. He was. He was good to the B team.

[D]

Extremely good to the B team. He only smoked me one time.

[A]

You're gonna stop there.

[D]

He. He smoked me for letting him know that he had never smoked me. And I appreciate it.

[A]

Yes, I can. Yeah, I can see Sean doing that. I can see Sean doing that. Yeah. I said it on the. On the podcast, and it's really cool to get to say it to his face, because these are things you just don't really. You don't tell friends or bosses that become friends or later on. You just don't sit there and usually get an opportunity to tell them what's great about them, you know, until. And. And we should. And we should to some degree. Sean always did a great job of being a boss, being separate as a boss and not your friend and also being your boss and your friend when. When he needed to be. And some people are horrible about that. Some people can only be your friend when they should be your boss. Some people can only be your boss and not be a friend at times and have that emotional attachment because you're just going through too much, because then it's not a brotherhood. And without a brotherhood, there's no way you're banding together to do great things. Because everyone has to be emotionally invested in this and everyone has to work extra hard and put in overtime to get. To get extraordinary results. It takes extraordinary input. The only way you do that, if everyone's all in and everyone's A team and everyone as. As. I don't care how it sounds. Everyone loves each other. And I was like, I'll do this for the boys out there. I'll do it for the guys back here. Left or right of it. I'll do it for my boss. Like, everybody. Love everybody. And it's. I'd have never called it love back then, but that's. Looking back, that's what it was. What it was. We loved our B team.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

And I. And I saw other deployments where the ODAs were at odds with B team. Ah, the B team. Like the B team was. They felt like the B team wasn't supporting them or was kepting him, you know, kept them from going out of the wire. Never felt that. In fact, the exact opposite. I knew if I help getting out of the wire and I didn't know how to sell it to get out the wire. That I could call the B team, be like, hey, this is what we're really trying to do. How do we get there and be like, okay, this is what the soda wants to hear. Write it up like this. Like, we were. We were one big team towards the same end state. It was. It was a really special time. It really was.

[B]

Brent, you're a great friend, and Drew, and I's a little brother. You're great.

[A]

Okay. Thank you, magnet. You're welcome. LeBron Le Day. The tree of liberty must be from time to time, watered with the blood of patriots. Oh, don't get me started on that. It'll. It'll make. It will make me sound like a terrorist. I don't have to. That is. That. That is a super chat. And we. And we go on. Joe Saunders. Yippee Kaye. Brent, I don't think you can say meter maids anymore. You're probably right. You probably. I don't think you can say mailman anymore. Non PC. Like, stewardesses are flight attendants. And maybe traffic. Traffic parking attendant. That. That is. That is probably. That's probably the, the correct answer. So for that, I apologize if I offended anyone. A lot of A's, 9, N, P, 1, Z. Brent, is Japan our greatest ally?

[E]

Well, they definitely weren't in 1945.

[C]

Yeah, that is fair.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

I'm just trying to think why Japan would be our, Our greatest ally. I don't have anything against them. A greatest ally is. Is quite a. It's quite a moniker. Who is our greatest ally, Chris?

[C]

What? Currently.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Who's our greatest ally? That's a. I know that's a tough question.

[C]

It is a hard one, honestly. I, I, I'm not sure. I'm not sure who would be at the top.

[D]

I think New Zealand has ployed to everything we've ever done, and Britain is right behind it, right behind them. But I think New Zealand, I think Kiwis are our number one.

[A]

I know my SAS friends are mad at me right now that I haven't immediately given an answer. I'm just trying to give a, Like a holistic look at this because, yeah, a part of me easily just wants to go Great Britain. Like, they're like, the uk. It's not just Great Britain, the uk like, they're, They're a greatest ally, but they are me. When I think, you know, what the SAS and what we've done together. But if you think about greatest ally as a nation, that is a very small part of, you know, of being an ally. So I don't want to take that small part and expand it to a national level. And, like, they're our greatest ally because they send their smallest, most elite team to. To go help us. Of course. That's amazing, and I love those guys, but that's why it's taken me a little bit to really kind of step back more of a holistically and go, who's our greatest ally? And it does the most force. I don't know. That is a good question. That is a good question. I still. I still want to say the uk But. But you. That's like. I'd like to see some data behind that and be like, this is. This is our greatest ally, and this is why they're our greatest ally. So that'd be. That'd be very. That'd be a very cool road to go down. President retard. Tier 1 Garden Center Bros. Here to take over the podcast world. Keep it up. Went and Drew. Yeah, Tier one Garden center bros. I get that. I get that reference. We grew up in the family business was Tucker's farm and garden center. And Drew. Me and Drew worked at it. Buff like Jesus. And he's got a 10th Mountain logo there next to him. Wildest news of the day. 50 grenades Kennedy and pee bottle O' Neill on a new docu series on Paramount. Plus, I've been sent this at least a dozen times, and it's crazy. You want to know what the docu series is called? And it's Tim Kennedy. One of them is interviewing vets, one of them being Rob o'. Neill. It's called Now I got a. Dang it. My phone just died. Son of a gun. I believe it's called Special Ops.

[E]

True.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, you guys are getting it.

[E]

That's.

[A]

That's wild. Paramount plus, did you. Do you not have Google? Do you not have Google? And if you go to the trailer that. That they're playing for it. Oh, the comment section is what you think the comments would look like in Paramount. Someone at Paramount's got to be looking at that, going, why? What. What happened? What did we miss? Why are we getting raked over the coals right now? The. Because on paper, if you didn't know any better, I understand why. You know, why. Why you want. You would want to do that. Di, what's up, man? Ms. Cleo said lawsuit number three is on the way now. Obviously a Ms. Cleo reference in a while. Oh, let's see here. TG Para, when will the book be out? And will it also come out as an audiobook? I'm an infantry man and can't read. You want to take a stab at that? Because I know we talked about it on the recording, so I kind of know the answer, but. So do you want, but do you want to take a stab at that?

[C]

Yeah, when I have the date for the book to be out, everybody's gonna know. I'll put it all over social media and everything. I don't have one right now, unfortunately. Sorry about that. But yeah, it will be an audiobook as well, so.

[A]

All right, let's see here. Zubi, Ben Shapiro is asking Trump to wage total war on Iran. Americans are ready for casualties. Thoughts? No, I've always said this from the beginning. I, outside of very, very small surgical type operations and even then I would be somewhat hesitant. It half the risk and reward have to be there. I don't think there's any reasons why we have to do an all out war. I think we, we, we pretty much control the air now and we have since the beginning and there's nothing, there's nothing we can't do at a reduced risk but still have a major impact through our air superiority. So something that's different on this phase of the operation is, which we weren't doing before because we weren't really doing all out war tactics, we were trying to be very surgical with our strikes, which is why we kept on taking out their leadership and layers of their leadership and of course their air defense nodes and things like that. But in this latest phase of the operation, when it continued back, we're now taking out bridges, things like that, like that's, that doesn't seem very important. We weren't doing that before. That's, that's massively important when it comes to a place like Iran and a place that doesn't have the resources that we have. Even here, even here. Could you imagine being in a city and getting a bridge taken out, you know, long take to rebuild that bridge. And even here in America there may be a fairly way around that. We have a very intricate road system. They don't you take out one of their bridges, you just averted them for miles and miles and miles and it's not getting rebuilt anytime soon. So. Which also means when all those at the Strait of Hormuz, when they're done firing all those rockets, if we haven't destroyed all them, right, they're not getting resupplied because that's what those bridges were now. So we don't need to, we just need to unleash the American military to do war the way they know to do war. And we're starting to see a little bit of that by finally taking out bridges.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Just a little personal. I just thought the whole idea how important bridges are, I mean, just in my local area, there's a bridge out right now and it's really jacking up everything. And there's been another. The bridge that's been out before. Can't remember how long ago it was, but people have lost their livelihoods because of that.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

In their business.

[A]

So. Yeah. I don't believe. I think this is under the bridges as well. I don't believe we've gone after any power plants. We. We were really trying to. Hate to say it, but this is. This is. We were trying to be nice about it. We weren't trying to hurt the Iranian people. I don't mean hurt them directly like dropping bombs on them. We're talking about hurting their everyday life. Just like you said, people lose their jobs, you know, and their businesses. When you take away certain bridges, you take away power plants. Like, you are really impacting what you could consider innocent people's lives, but you are also crippling the government at the same time. So at. At this point, if you want to win this war before the. Win before the midterms, you're going to have to start treating it like. Like a war and start going after infrastructure. Gearhead 4778. Hey, Chris. Really appreciate all you've done, Pool.

[C]

Appreciate it, brother. That was the second guy I ever interviewed way back in 20.

[D]

Oh, really?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I love that.

[C]

He's. He's from my old. He's from my old company with an lar. Good dude.

[A]

All right, all the A's again. I need a Tucker's feed shirt. You know what? Oh, man, I should probably get those. Drew's not even here to hear this. I should probably get those made. Look like an old school vintage shirt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sell them.

[B]

That.

[A]

That'd be really cool. That'd be a really cool idea. LeBron. LeBron Liday. I still think I'm saying that. Right. I. You know, I. I feel I really know what, what Drew goes through on a Thursday weekly basis now to explain the last chat. It's a quote from Thomas Jefferson. It's acknowledging human nature. People will always have to guard from tyranny from the state and self. Yes, absolutely. I, I did. I did catch that. Glaucoma. 420. Has there been any consequences and accountability for the Afghan pullout? Do you believe there has been? And I'LL give you a follow up question. Do you believe there needs to be. And this is just, just your opinion, Chris, what do you think?

[C]

I think accountability would definitely be nice. I know it's a lot of veterans just from the Afghan war as a whole and from the, from the withdrawal that would like to see some for sure. Do I think you're going to get any at this point? I. I don't know. I think most people, especially at the top, are just kind of ready to move on with the whole thing, which I don't. There's lessons that need to be learned from it. I just, I just don't know if we're actually gonna learn those lessons or not. I hope, I hope we do, but I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I know General Donahue, depending on who you ask, either he got fired, he got forced to retire, or he retired voluntarily recently. I think he gets a bad rap from a lot of people. I don't think he necessarily deserves it. We kind of talked about on the recording as well. I think he, when he got to on the ground, Nhkai, he inherited a complete show and. But I'd love to interview him and talk to him about it.

[A]

See. But yeah. All right, let's see here. Where we at? Where we at? Bernie J. Brent, you've had Blabber on who oppose Chapman surviving. Please be direct as possible. Do you believe he survived or was killed when Slab says he was. He was killed when Slab says he was. That upsets people. I don't know why it upsets people because I still believe he deserves a medal of honor for his first actions. The only thing that takes away from him is that he doesn't deserve two medals of honor and that I think one's good enough. It's one more than I have. I think it's one more than you have, Chris, unless I didn't do my research. Elliot, how you doing? You. You rolling? Medal of Honorless?

[D]

I am currently.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty big deal. It's a pretty big deal. Pete Blabber makes a very, very good point about it. He was the ground force commander for that time. He did get to see the whole video. And when you see the whole ISR video, which is chopped up on the Internet for brevity, he says you can follow the whole thing and you know that that person that's still fighting in that position was enemy. It was not Chapman. And it's basically a, an enemy on enemy fratricide because they were in the dark without NVGs and there's still movement. They don't really know what's going on. He went up to the mountain side later, a short time later, and even found the person there in that. The enemy in that position, which confirms his suspension, that it was not Chapman. But here's the real kicker, code name Red Beard. That's right, the Red Beard. Yeah. Here's the real kicker. If you believe Chapman was still alive. And like I said, I was being direct. I'm saying that he wasn't. And I get that off of Pete Blaber, who's a ground force commander there. This is. This is the problem you're going to have with that story. That same guy in that same position shot at the 47 coming in to try to save him. Well, then did Chapman shoot at his own bird? Because it. It can't be both. And the argument that you would have to make then as well. Maybe he was dying and he was. It didn't really know what was going on, and he shot at his own bird. This is. I'm not saying I was in that same predicament exactly. I'm not. I'm not. But I am telling you, I was bleeding out and losing consciousness one night, and when that happened, I happened to hear helo blades, and I never thought about shooting it. In fact, even when I'm on the verge of passing out, which I eventually did on the. On the Hilo, I thought to myself, thank God that's the Hilo. Like, even in your dire moment in combat, no matter what state you're in, when you hear the blades of a helicopter, you know, that's a good thing. You know, it's a possibility way out. And you're not. You're not shooting up your own bird.

[D]

That's.

[A]

That's me being direct as possible. And that's. And that's my opinion, but my opinion is based off of the ground force commander that was there that. That night. Let's see, we got into that one.

[B]

This is the last one.

[A]

This is the last one. Gotcha, Zubi. The Afghan withdrawal chain of command wasn't the sect F Lloyd, then General Kelly, then Cent Commander McKenzie, then Marcent. I. I will not be. I do. I say. I say things sometimes in Jess, sometimes in truth. I don't go into some stories maybe the way I. I should. But I do try to be at the end of the day, you know, keep it aligned with kind of entertaining and professional. I will tell you stories about Lloyd when we get to the garage, and I'll just leave it at that.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And they're not good stories. So Lloyd, Lloyd should have never been in that position. And that's just. And that's not me bashing him.

[C]

That is.

[A]

That is just. That is a fact. Some people get promoted into positions not their fault. The, the stories I'll tell you in the garage will be his fault, but he should have never been in that position. And this is. And he is overall in charge of. Of what's going on. And it's just one of those things. If you have someone who's been promoted outside their abilities, rarely do you have good things that are going to. To come from that. And that is definitely the beginning of a bad situation when you have a guy at the top who really shouldn't have been there.

[D]

That's.

[A]

That's what I'll say about that. But as, as far as. As far as the rest of the chain in command, of course, is. Do you. Do you have any thoughts on that chain of command during withdrawal? At, at the time, I know you focused a lot on. On the guys on the ground, but you still looked at the, the operation as a whole, and maybe you don't. Do you have any opinion on. On those guys or want to weigh in on that? The, the, the highest level of the DoD chain of command at the time?

[C]

I think there could be questions asked that probably General McKenzie's level, because there were other assets in CENTCOM at the time that could have gone forward to support what's going on. Hka, actually, you had a whole. You had a whole nother battalion from the 10th Mountain 230 that was sitting there in Kuwait. Up until the first week of August. You had.431 was also there until they got moved back. Except for Charlie Delta Company who stayed in hk. A lot of the. Not a lot of necessarily, but it was a good chunk of first brigade, 82nd who ended. Who did not make it to HKA. A lot of them did, but there's a good chunk of them that did not. And I think coordinating with more, probably more air assets, more airframes, because talking about C17s before, when the withdrawal initially started, there were not enough airframes in theater to support that movement. And they actually had to pull in from squadrons all over the world, from the US Southeast Asia and other places to help support that movement. And on August 22, President Biden had to activate the Civil Air Reserve to kind of free things up logistically. And it was just. Up until that point, it just showed. There's actually three days during the evacuation where everything just shuts down because they don't have enough aircraft, they don't have enough places to take people. So there's like three, two or three days that the whole evacuation shuts down until those logistical problems get solved.

[A]

Yeah. I tell you we'll never get it. But I would tell you would be very interesting. Of course, everything's Hindsight, everything's easy 2020. But something tells me if we, if we gave high level people a chance to war game this again and said, hey, we're doing this again, how should it have been done? And I hope they're doing it at, at some level like you, we do need to revisit campaigns, things that weren't done well. We need to look back at it and say, hey, how could it have been better? You know, especially at the, the higher ranking officer schools. Something tells me we're shying away from that because it's politically incorrect to, to go back and look at that and, and learn from it. Because it did have a lot of political sensitivities to it. But just me. And again, this is on, in hindsight I, I'm thinking that we should have, and that one is just a no brainer to me ensuring we had as many airframes as possible because it doesn't. You can do everything right, but that's, that's your friction point, right, that's your choke point. How are we gonna, how are we gonna get them all out? And sometimes we probably should have kept a hold, we should have put more people in, stayed a little longer, maintain Bagram, maintain H. HKA had two runways mutually supporting each other with a line of communication. A little bit of a hybrid of the 82nd thing, but done with a, with, with a more controlled environment that we didn't have to go retake things, that we did it in a sequential order where we maintained those two things and a lot of communication between the two and then got everybody out. And once you have everybody out, then collapse down to HK and then get everyone out. And I'm, I'm pretty sure it's the, the answer was easier. But again, to be fair to those guys, I think they got forced into something and they did the best with what they, with what they had. But I would like, I would like to see him look at that again and see how much of a different plan that, that they would come up with, knowing what we know now, which

[D]

I'd say just the biggest thing that I saw was allowing the enemy to seize the initiative. If you never Allow the enemy is the initiative by blocking, you know what I mean, slowing it down. That's where I simplified. But that's where I see a lot of the fault with the, with the draw.

[A]

And I'd be interested to see what some people come up with as a plan because I can, I can think of, you know, right now some other really good plans. At the end of the day one of the problems you're going to have with that is having people come in from all over the country to still kind of a central location. Jbad had, still had a Runway. Kandahar had a great airport and Runway. And I wonder if we'd have, if one of the plans would have been to still in a controlled manner control those three areas. Now you have three very different locations. But you're splitting the horde if you want to call them into more manageable pockets, into thirds and then you can get them out that way. But then again, like you said, the other problem is the State Department ran it. They ran it as a Neo. The only way they kind of know how to run it. That's how you run a Neo. This should have been maintained as a military operation. I think the military, there should have been pushback on that as well. There's a lot of things and I don't think it's a bad thing to look back and depends on your intent. If your intent is just to look back and just tell people how much they suck you especially if you're a vet and you're emotional about it, you have a right to be emotional about it and you have a right to do that. Not saying you don't, but there's, but you know, if we're also doing it from a lessons learned perspective because let me tell you, something like this might happen again. And if we didn't stress to future leadership how we could have done it right, we're going to lose this valuable lesson down the road. And that's, and that's what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned that it never happens again. And if we don't look at this and then sure it doesn't, then what keeps it from not happening again? By the time the next generation comes and goes, the only people that are going to be mad at the and care about the withdrawal are us will just be old men and vets stewing about the withdrawal of Afghanistan and the next generation. The military is like, I don't know what you're talking about. I guess, sure, I guess it wasn't good. Like no, you didn't learn about this. They're not still talking about it. No, it's not. It's not even something we talk about. We. How can you not talk about this? If you don't, we're doomed to repeat the lesson. And that's, that's my. That's probably one of my last points on that. But if you got any words on that. What do you got, Chris?

[C]

I mean, there's a big fear that's going to happen again eventually, at some point, whatever conflicts we get involved with. An organization I used to work with talked a lot about being part of a planning process for a potential NEO from Taiwan. Like, say China finally starts going to invade Taiwan. Things go hot over there. And. But yeah, that's one thing I hope to do with the project as well. And with this archive and everything. This archive and everything. I want people to be able to go somewhere and see and listen to what it was. What happens when certain decisions get made and really, certain decisions don't get made or get put off until it's too late. I mean, you gotta. Planning is everything. Planning is everything. In the military, you need to plan a failure. Plan is a plan to fail. So.

[A]

But I don't want to put any more pressure on you than you've already got, but you actually, you reminded me a little bit about what you're doing. Yeah, I just made me see it in a different light. There's one thing of capturing their stories. Yes. But if the military, which I'm afraid of, won't do it because. Because of the reasons already said, this is no reason to rehash all that I said that'll just be us old guys, you know, with telling our stories to each other. But that's not necessarily true because if you do your job and you write this book and you document this, there will be a living document and a living source that people can go back to and have the lessons learned from it. So it's, It's. I could. What you're doing is. Is so important. It's so important to. Obviously to the veterans that lived it. And you know that from each one of your 84 interviews. And I think you already know it from. Be on this podcast and talking to veterans right here. They're still emotional about it. Emotional to veterans and patriots that still care about this country that are right here in this comment section that haven't forgotten it. And. And I think you're the best chance at doing it right.

[C]

I appreciate that.

[A]

I mean that. I appreciate it. No pressure. All right. Is A couple more come in. Well, Drew. Drew Truth the Dark podcast. Gosh. Ti Tai, I think you meant to say. I have an idea. What about. No, he already saw it. Dag dab it. What about Tucker fiend shirts. Boom. Boom. Desalination plants. Next. Unreasonable enemies have never responded to positive soft attacks. 100, 000 civilians died in one night of bombs in World War II. That is. That is true. There's. There it is from Drew, the former producer. How you like that title for Drew? Magnet, former producer.

[B]

He can have it.

[A]

He can have it.

[E]

Okay.

[A]

All right. Just. Current producer. Just not here tonight. Okay. All right.

[C]

Got it.

[B]

Got it. I'll be the stand in.

[A]

They told Marines not to fire and I won't. I won't ruin it. But we, we covered that in. In the recording which should be out in just a couple weeks. The ROE Part of it. Yeah, yeah, you. And I'll say. Yeah, I just kind of put that under, under the re. Which. Which we talked about. Yeah, yeah. Glaucoma. Still one of my favorite names. Stuart Scheller spoke out. They got rid of him. I think. Stuart Scheller was that the guy who made the. The video like in his RV or something like that in his uniform and spoke out. Is that the. He was an officer, if I remember right. Is that. Is that the same guy? Is that his name or is that someone else?

[C]

You're on the right track. Stuart Shull was the battalion commander for Advanced Infantry Training Battalion. And he saw what was going on Afghanistan and made a video giving his thoughts on it while he was in his office in his uniform. Got hemmed up for that pretty good. And he did. And basically got kicked out of the Marine Corps for that.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

After being put through the ringer. I mean they had him in the brig. I read his book.

[E]

He.

[C]

He went through the ringer for speaking out.

[A]

I don't. I don't want to get the wrong guy. There may have been two, but I think there's only one. And, and yes, and thank you for bringing up that guy. I mean, I just said no one did that. That's right. That guy did do it. If I remember right. And I hate to say this because I don't want to be wrong. That's why I really want to be cautious. Way of preface this. I think he made a follow up video too later. And he looked a little unhinged in his follow up video and it really kind of tainted his original video which was done fairly well and look like for the right reasons. And then when you couple the two videos like, oh, no, is that the same guy? Is that the same guy?

[C]

I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. Same guy. Because he does. He made a whole series of videos, and one of them is when he's like, in an. In his camper, in civilian clothes, on his property. And I think he addressed it as. Well, he. That he seemed a little unhinged. The amount of legal pressure that he was under by the point that he was making that video and afterwards was immense. If you ever want to.

[A]

Yeah. With him saying that and addressing it. I'll buy that. I'll buy that. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[C]

They were. His entire life got ruined because of all that. So.

[A]

Yeah. And. And you know what's crazy? And it did get ruined. And now. And now we. And, And I don't. I was a little bit on the fence of how I looked at him like, at that time, because we were ground guys. Like, we. We knew he wasn't wrong, but it was a little wild to see that, you know, when. But now look at us. It's 2026. We're talking about someone standing up and saying something. And he did. And so to some degree, in hindsight, he actually looks a little more justified. Like, you know, history. History's kind of kind to him. Like, hey, good on you. You. You stood up and said something because something was wrong about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And he found support later. And I think, man, I don't keep up with him necessarily. I don't have any personal relationship to him at all, but if he found

[A]

support later, so I might tell Nick, I might. I might try to get him as a guest, I think it'd be an interesting guess. And if after why he spoke up, everything he. He went through, I think, being an interesting story and, and, and to get the whole story from him.

[C]

Yeah, I think he'd probably definitely be down for it. Sure. And I don't know why the name book is escaping me right now. I know. I read it.

[A]

Well, it's your community, you know, you think. You think you know someone who. Get me in touch with them. Think about that. You don't have to answer right now, but yeah, think about that. I bet you putting out enough feelings, you probably could. If not, we can. I'm sure he has Instagram and other ways to try to get hold of him, but if you think of something, a direct connection is always the easy, easiest. Thank you for that glaucoma. Thank you. Thank you for. For correcting the record on that. You were right, Birdie J. I don't want to be annoying, but Rob Harrison rebuts blabber's claims with good evidence. Can you have labor plus others to moderate a debate? It's important. If I remember, I think Rob Harrison was the. The passenger on the AC130 aircraft that was overhead during that time. You'll have to let me know who Rob Harrison is. Ella, can you help me out again and Google Rob Harrison Chapman?

[D]

That'll.

[A]

That'll probably get it. And just let me know what his background is. I don't. Your phone died too?

[D]

No, I turned it off.

[A]

Oh, you turned it off. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we'll have time for that. I don't want. Because I don't want to be wrong on that and find out, because if I'm right on that, that'll. That'll lead me to the rest of my answer. David Core Betts or David Corbet Robinson? It's Corbett, but then you'll know maybe how to pronounce it. Thanks for what you're doing.

[C]

Yeah, it's Corbett.

[A]

Corbett.

[C]

Yeah, he was. He was one of my junior marines when I was with lar, and he was part of the withdrawal as well. Played with the 24th Mew, ended up in Hkaya.

[E]

All that.

[C]

Yeah, he was a.

[D]

It's.

[C]

He was a really good dude.

[A]

It's cool to see several guys that. That you worked with that are here in the. The comments section. That's just the super chats that we saw. Who knows how many more, you know, were.

[C]

I saw a couple pop up in the comments. Yeah, I mean, the chat. I see one at the very bottom right now. A guy that interviewed recently.

[A]

Is that Thomas Rollins? Yep.

[C]

Another. Another 10th Mountain soldier.

[A]

Oh, that's cool. That's super cool. All right, it is the end of the podcast. We. Let's see what we got. Of course Ace of Spades is gonna win it for 500. That's an easy one. And then, of course, while the music plays, we will hang out with the chat section. You don't have to super chat at this point. We'll. We'll answer all the chats we can during two songs. Let's see here. Close this bad boy out and let's get to it. Motorhead, Ace of Spades. And I love it when I don't even have to download it because that one's right in the library If. If my phone will comply. And while I'm doing this, you can go ahead and start reading certain things. Just write in the regular chat and. And answer Them if you want. Chris

[C]

in one. The general chatter.

[A]

Yep. The general chat. This one's just for the boys. It'll get a little loud. You'll be able to hear it in the. In the chats and I gotcha. Toker, the green 6968. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The politics f the troops and the people. Situation normal. Let's see here. Truth in the dark. I'm texting without reading glass glasses. What fool would do that? That's my brother. Braden. Braden Medden. White lightning. White lightning. Is it. It's not mountain. This is white lightning. It's mountain water.

[E]

It's mountain water.

[A]

Fl water. Okay.

[E]

All right. There you go. Yeah.

[A]

All right. Truth in the dark says flavored cigars back in one week. Grant Evans, 8099Question about Neptune spears. So you know it's Neptune's spear with an apostrophe S. What is. Was it red that took out Khalid and Ubla?

[B]

To my.

[A]

To my understanding. I have heard one other version that's not actually from the guys on the ground, but I have heard one other version. But the overwhelming consensus is that it is him that took out both from all the people I've talked to that were there. Chris, what part of LA you from?

[C]

The real Louisiana park

[A]

getting.

[C]

I'm not gonna dox myself.

[A]

Okay. I'm not gonna dox myself. Okay. Let's see. Toker, the green again. What would you differently for the pull out if it had to do it again today? In fact, we just went. We just went over that a little bit towards the end of the podcast.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

So I won't.

[A]

I won't rehash it, but you can re. Watch it. You want to go much further back than this. Did I miss the bigfoot question? Big ball, you did miss the bigfoot question. Ezekiel Roarte. Much love tier one community. Thank you guys again and thank you guys for all your questions for Chris. I told him that the live was going to be good. The live isn't good because of me. The live is good in spite of me. The live is good because you guys and your questions, your insightful and just professional questions, and I always appreciate that. Matt Burns says thank you. Magnet the wise. All right, we found Magnet's burner account just over here. Commenting on his burner account. Billy Batty. Motorhead. Right. Someone put in a and said my favorite Aussie song. So that is what we're going to play. You said you didn't remember the name Perry Mason as an Aussie Song. Correct. When we talked about earlier, do you remember? I believe you said that. Chris, you with me? Did you. Are you the one said you didn't know that the parents. Perry Mason. You don't recognize the. The Perry Mason song? The name?

[C]

No. I don't know a lot about Ozzy Osborne.

[A]

Okay. What music do you listen to?

[C]

It just. It really depends on the mood. Generally speaking. Just like rock.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Folk. All right.

[C]

That kind of stuff.

[A]

Love it. Love it. Let's see here.

[C]

Actually, speaking about music, I do. There's two guys that I know of that were part of the withdrawal. They make music now. Well, one made a. One made like a EP or an album.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Falling withdrawal. Greg Whalen, American, deployed. Some good music. Really good music there about the withdrawal. And then Tyler Stevenson, who's a country singer now.

[B]

All right.

[C]

With the 82nd. And he's making some really good music in some early. Something's about the withdrawal too.

[A]

Very cool. I love that. I love it when vets get into music. What is the country singer used to

[D]

be a

[A]

helicopter pilot. And I believe he took a helicopter and landed it in Johnny Cash's place to try to get Johnny Cash listen his music. Chris Christopherson. Is that who it is? I. I wouldn't. Yeah, old. Old country. I'm almost positive that's who it is. Someone in the chat cats will probably double check me, but I am pretty

[E]

sure

[A]

Dusty go Tiger says Magnet spilled hot dog sauce on Drew's keyboard. Drew's not gonna be happy about that. Dang it, Magnet.

[B]

I gotta leave my mark.

[A]

Yes, Dwazi. Brit made music with Rock Band. That's true. I made music too. But it's in the video video game Rock Band. I used to crush Rock Band. Absolutely crush it.

[B]

I don't believe you.

[A]

Whiskey Fox Brent, what's your EDC optic? And is your Glock MOS or direct mill? It's. I prefer. I gotta look at it real quick. Oh, it's inside. It's inside that thing. I prefer direct milk. And what's that?

[B]

No, I was gonna answer the question.

[A]

Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

[B]

He has a custom slide on it. So it's direct mill.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

And I'm. I don't care that much about optics, to be honest with you. I've had a hollow sun. I've had something as crap as a swamp fox. Yes, my swamp fox did die on me at some point. I'm a big fan of Dr. Dr. Optics this. So, yeah, I have a hollow sun on it. On Now. You are correct. Joe Saunders. Epk. I knew you would. Someone would back me up on this. Chris Christopherson was the Vietnam Hilo pilot that I believe. Rumor has that he stole a helicopter from base and took it to Johnny Cash's place. Trying to get Johnny Cash listen to his music. Became. Was also a road scholar. Geesh. Feel like I need to know more about that guy actually. Why are guys still running Glocks when the M and P is a thing?

[B]

You know,

[A]

I've. I've talked about the, the M and P. It's not a bad gun. I. I like it. The MP40, I don't have a problem with that.

[B]

I just don't like the. The amount of ammo you get with it, you know?

[A]

Yeah, I, I don't dislike the mmp, but again, for reasons I've said before, because of all the things you can do with the Glock and, and for the economy of it, Glock is still going to beat the MMP for those reasons. Is there also a poop bottle?

[B]

No.

[A]

Piss bottles. Definitely a thing you. No, no, no. Poo bottle. Alex Tucker said hollow sun is shockingly good value.

[E]

It is.

[A]

I'm telling you though, I would stay away. It's not a definitive, but I would stay away from the solar rechargeable stuff because when you keep your gun in the center console, your truck, and in your nightstand, it's not going to ever see the sun. So having that little solar panel on the top of your optic is going to do anything for you.

[E]

And Brent, I want to comment on the poop bottle. You may be a tier one operator, but I do not think that you

[A]

are going to hit that target. Yeah, no, no, you're going to miss. You're going to miss. You're going to miss. And I don't care how much goat, Afghan goat you ate, you're going to. You're going to miss that target.

[E]

You're making a mess.

[A]

Right. That's.

[E]

That's.

[A]

That's trying to hit a bullseye with. With either with a slug, which is difficult, or with. With. With bird shot, which is impossible if you don't. If you know what I mean. So, yeah, it's just bad either way

[B]

off of it to solve the problem.

[A]

Yeah. Battery version. T Chambers, you're on it. TG Para. I told Chris I heard a story about D boys taking a plane back from the Taliban in HKA that was taxing on the Runway. Didn't hear it from a reliable source and don't really, really believe it. Hear anything. Do you remember that story at all?

[C]

Yeah, pretty sure he told me that story. And I haven't talked to anybody from decode 2504, so I'm honestly, I'm not sure. But there was.

[D]

I will.

[A]

I can put out some feelers for that and see if that's a true story. If you think the D boys took a plane back from the Taliban on

[C]

hka, I mean, there was a lot of shenanigans going on on August 16th. Yeah, there was a lot of. Yeah. So, I mean, maybe. But I don't know. I need. I need to hear more people talk about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

See if it was true or not.

[A]

Okay. All right, Billy Batty. I had an MMP and got made fun of for it. Well, I think that's ridiculous. Not. Not. Not something you should make fun of for that. You know, One of my favorite answers, one of my favorite, like, realistic, grounded answers is from Kyle Morgan. Once anyone asks him, what's your. What EDC do you suggest? Or what's your favorite edc? And he has a great answer for it. He goes, it's. It's the one you carry every day and the one you train on. And that's. That's true. Like, a lot of people want to talk about an EDC all the time, but if you don't carry it, it's not an edc. And even if you do carry it, if you don't train on it, you probably shouldn't carry it every day. So that's. That's Kyle's favorite edc, the one you carry and the one you train on. So he's. He's a wise man, even though he has that kind of dumb face sometimes that kind of hides how smart he is. He is a smart man. He also has another thing that he says all the time, which I. Which I've. I've stolen. I don't think he made it up, but he uses it a lot, and. Which is if. If you. If you don't have a plan, any road will take you there. And I think that's just another great saying that. That I've heard. I've heard him say over and over again. Let's see, I only heard of one ship dude getting bit by a shark jumping off. I'm sure there's all sorts of stories that get told about that, but I've seen the videos of guys like, you know, like on a. On. On a naval ship, and then they're stopping somewhere to jump in the water, and then guys pulling guard, you know, over it for sharks and, like, shooting in the water when they. When they see sharks. I doubt it happens all the time, but there's a video of it happening. You hear any of those stories? You ever jump out into the ocean like an idiot? Just jump into the shark's kitchen?

[C]

No, not on. Not on the deployment that I was on. We never got that opportunity.

[A]

Okay. Would you take it? Would you jump out in the middle of the ocean for a cool off? Just say you did it.

[C]

Me purse.

[A]

Yeah, That's a tough one, actually.

[C]

Probably not, but maybe.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I could be talked into doing it.

[A]

I love the honesty there. Yeah, you know what? That's kind of true, too. I don't want to, but I could probably talked into it by the right person.

[C]

The rest of my boys were doing it. I might do it just. Just once, just to do it with them.

[A]

Okay, all right, all right. I get that.

[B]

All right.

[A]

That is tonight's show. Three hours. Went all the way to 11, but it was. It was an easy show to do with you, Chris. Thank you so much. We're gonna go around the room just because we can, and that's what we do. Elliot, you're here. So you get a. You get a last word. What say you.

[D]

Y' all are wonderful.

[A]

Man of many words. I love that bake.

[E]

Just thanks for letting us come hang out and you guys are doing a great thing and keep going and we appreciate the community and love it, man. Thanks for hanging out with us.

[A]

Well, thank you for the support, Mag Magnet, the producer. What say you?

[B]

Oh, this was fun.

[A]

You didn't even have to pull in any Instagram videos or YouTube videos. An easy day.

[B]

You're welcome. Now you guys check out the second best firearm manufacturing company in the world, LionArmsUSA.com Go pick up some merch if you want to. Also check out frcc. Shop for the world's greatest coffee, cigars, and bourbon. Do it.

[D]

Do it.

[B]

And on Sundays, please make sure you check out Truth in the Dark. Drew said he's at 29 and some change. He needs 3,000.

[A]

Yeah, he's 3,000. Watch hours get monetized. We're almost there, boys. We're almost there.

[B]

Go do it.

[A]

All right, Chris, you are the guest of honor. You get the last word. What do you want to say?

[C]

I appreciate. Just like, oh, I. I appreciate every opportunity I get to talk about it like we talked about before. It's a little cathartic for me to get to talk about all this, just as it's cathartic for people to talk to me about what they went through and everything. And I just, I greatly appreciate. And I'll start with you if I can give a couple shout outs to

[A]

some of the guys who do whatever you want.

[C]

They met Lt. Col. Rowe, who's who gets to retire next year, which is a good thing because he's been in the military for far too long. Went through officer training just as 911 was going on. Went through the whole GWAT and was the battalion commander for the Polar bears in H Kaya.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And yeah, him and CSM Jerry Heim, his sergeant major at the time, they started their own podcast as well recently.

[D]

Really?

[A]

What's it called? Do you know?

[C]

Boots and Shoots.

[A]

Unfiltered Boots and Shoots. That's a good day.

[B]

Name.

[A]

That's a good name.

[C]

Well, they both did their. Their time with the paratroopers. I think Lieutenant Colonel Rowe was with 173rd and then Sergeant Major Heim was 82nd.

[A]

Okay. So.

[C]

But yeah, they talk. They have their people that they know on. They've had a bunch of good episodes so far and I was on one of them earlier this year.

[A]

Very cool.

[C]

So yeah, shout out to them. Shout out to Caitlin Rodriguez, who's been a good friend of the project and be a good friend of mine for a few years now. And she's awesome. She has something going on with called Rooted in Resilience. It's a program dedicated to supporting veteran families, veteran family members, spouses especially, as well as first responders, spouses of first responders families, first responders. So shout out to her and her initiative and as she's been. I said she's been a really good friend to me and helped me and my wife out a lot last year. So I just wanted to stand here and all the guys that I've interviewed so far and I hope to interview in the future.

[D]

I.

[C]

The only reason I keep kind of like how I said during the recording, but the only reason I keep doing this is because of their support and their well wishes and I'm incredibly thankful for them to because this project wouldn't exist without them and I just really appreciate it.

[A]

Absolutely. The website isn't up yet and they'll get reminded again when your recording drops. But you already have it a placeholder for it. What's the name of the website?

[C]

Yeah, the name of the website is the Last Deployment Project, all1word.org. When the website does go live, hopefully in August, that's the plan, everything for the project, all the interviews and they'll be added as time goes on as we get more and More recorded and edited and all that kind of stuff we'll go on there along with any videos, photos, stuff that I get will be on there. That'll be like these.

[B]

That.

[C]

That is the hub for the project. That is the archive that the project is trying to build.

[A]

Nice.

[C]

Yeah. But only exceptions are if anybody wants me to withhold their stuff for any reason or be named Anonymous and that'll be respected 100%. But yeah, everything will be on there.

[A]

And your social media pages, yeah, we

[C]

got social, we got Instagram, Facebook, X, Twitter, YouTube and I'm always forgetting one. There's always one that I forget. Got a page on indeed as well. The dot Last dot deployment underscore project on Instagram. Should be easy to find on Facebook. The council linked YouTube. Just search the last point project. It'll pop right up. X At last. At last deployment. Pretty sure that's what it is. I don't post on X nearly enough. I need to because that's like really the place to build an audience. From what I understand.

[A]

I know we don't do it either.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

I don't even. I don't even.

[A]

We don't even have a podcast. I think we. We might. I just don't.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So much. It's so much to. To do tick tock and Facebook and Instagram and X and even though you know Facebook and Instagram are connected, it's just. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot.

[C]

And I don't do tick tock and I don't. I don't plan to. Yeah, I stay away from that.

[B]

And.

[A]

And instead of posting on things I need, I need you finishing that book.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah, you can, you can. You can do all those things. You can do all those things later. Anything else? It is yours.

[C]

No, I don't think I got anything else that hasn't been said already. I just. Yeah. I just really appreciate the opportunity. Thanks for having me on.

[A]

You are welcome. Guys. That is another Thursday Night Live. Thank you so much. You guys are the reason it's fun. We will see you next Thursday night. That's right. We got another one and seven more days. We'll see you Patriots then.