160th Little Bird Pilot Greg Coker | Tier1 Podcast

Summary

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Tier1 Podcast Ep.160: Little Bird Pilot Greg Coker

July 28, 2026 | Host: Brent Tucker | Producer: Drew Tucker

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Overview

In this compelling episode, Brent Tucker sits down with Chief Warrant Officer 4 (Ret.) Greg Coker, a legendary US Army helicopter pilot with over 22 years of service, most of it spent with the elite 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment ("Night Stalkers"). Coker recounts his arduous path from enlisting at 25 to flying in some of the world’s most dangerous combat zones, including detailed insights into selection, special operations aviation culture, and the realities of sacrifice, brotherhood, and personal perseverance. The conversation offers a rare, authentic glimpse into the standards, training, and ethos that shape America’s most elite aviators—interwoven with Coker’s reflections, humor, and lessons learned.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Greg Coker’s Path to Army Aviation

• Motivation & Early Years
  • Joined the Army in 1986 at age 25, drawn by a lifelong fascination with flight (04:51).
  • Influenced by his father’s 30 years in the Air Force and childhood exposure to Vietnam-era helicopters (05:32).
• The High School-to-Flight School Route
  • Leveraged the Army's unique warrant officer program that allowed non-college grads to become aviators (06:41).
  • Endured a challenging, paperwork-heavy process that acted as a “weeding out” mechanism for persistence (07:28).

2. Training, Selection, and Grit

• Flight School & Building Proficiency
  • Started on the TH55, quickly transitioned to the iconic Huey—"Pinch myself, dream come true” (09:16).
  • Emphasized how skills from farming and heavy equipment translated to early flight training (11:20).
• On Quitting and Tenacity
  • Mindset: “Just don’t ever quit. Never ever quit.” (19:40)
  • Recalls driving overnight in dress uniform to Army HQ to demand release for 160th selection:

    “Either you release me to go to the 160th, or I’m getting out of the Army.” (18:49)

• On Not Meeting Standards
  • Applied to 160th short of the preferred 1,000-hour minimum, doubled NVG hours instead to prove readiness (26:30).

3. Special Operations Aviation Culture

• Dreaming Big & Setting Goals
  • Knew he wanted to fly for 160th from day one—“Whatever it takes to get there” (24:22).
  • Parallels between 160th and Delta Force/Green Berets: “Life is a selection process” (20:23).
• Assessment and Green Platoon
  • 160th assessment is both physically and mentally challenging, emphasizing unknowns and endurance (33:18).
  • Psychological screening and coping with self-doubt: “You just gotta fight through.” (36:07)
• Smaller, Tighter Teams
  • Explains the unique burden: Only 15-16 fully mission qualified Little Bird pilots to support the Rangers, Delta, SEAL Team 6, and more (59:33).

4. Training for War: Pre- and Post-Global War on Terror

• Adapting to Technology & Environment
  • Describes evolution of night vision and flying in extreme environments (mountains, deserts, urban, water) (51:41).
  • Emphasizes mastery of basics: map reading, navigation with grease pencil, and adaptability (47:00).
• Impact of Real-World Operations
  • Candid about the effect of Black Hawk Down (Mogadishu) on the unit’s culture and tactical adjustments (49:32).
  • G.W.O.T. accelerates improvements: “Every mission, we would learn new things, new tactics, new ways to do things.” (78:15)
  • On pushing training to the limit:

    “Training incidents… as horrible as it is, it’s a necessity… that’s how you know you’ve pushed it to the limits.” (56:25)

5. Brotherhood, Sacrifice, and the Price of Service

• A-Plus Personalities & Selection
  • The edge needed for special operations described: “You guys are A-plus personalities. You sit on the fence of being crazy and not crazy.” (42:14)
• Sense of Responsibility
  • Pilots bear direct responsibility for crew and ground force—any mistake can cost multiple lives (79:27).
• Family and Regret
  • On the only real regret:

    “Missing them [his kids] growing up. That’s the only one. Kind of cheated them.” (115:10)
    “But… now we live each day to its fullest.” (116:17)

• Camaraderie and Humility
  • Culture of mutual respect: “I looked, I walked among giants. I did. I’d ask myself all the time, man, how did I get here? How did I stay?” (64:07)
  • Humble ethos despite elite performance (66:09).

6. Combat Operations & Notable Events

• Early Afghanistan & Iraq Missions
  • Describes adrenaline and fulfillment of finally “playing the game” after years of practice (73:32).
  • Longevity and difficulty of initial missions: “Longest air assault in history—over a thousand miles off the ship.” (75:43)
  • On adapting to Afghanistan’s environment: “The terrain was our worst enemy and altitude.” (77:36)
• Supporting Other SOF & Allies
  • Supported not just American tier-one—Rangers, Delta, SEALs—but UK SAS and others (88:51).
  • On risk for foreign troops:

    “They’re asking me to hang it out for them. … But never stop. We’re gonna do the mission.” (89:49, 90:27)

• Getting Shot Down
  • In 2004, shot down by an SA-16 over the “Devil’s Triangle” south of Fallujah; recounts violent impact, survival, and being rescued by teammates (92:41–102:55).

  • “I assessed him, got him out, and we crawled out of it. … First thing I thought was Black Hawk Down.” (100:02)

7. Life After Combat & Continuing Service

• Writing & “Death Waits in the Dark”
  • Book is available on Audible and Kindle; all profits donated to veteran and first responder organizations (~$116,000 donated as of the episode) (119:02, 119:58).
  • Dedication:

    “Dedicated to the children of warriors. I pray this story will shed some light on the absence of your father.” (117:44)

• Blades for Brothers Nonprofit
  • Founded workshop to help vets and first responders forge knives, providing mission/purpose post-service (123:24).

8. Reflections & Stories

• Adrenaline Addiction
  • “Once you get a hit of life and death… nothing will replace it.” (112:54)
• Last Combat Mission
  • Knew it was his last; left due to accumulating injuries and surgeries.

    “I’m becoming a liability, and I don’t want to be a liability.” (111:46)

• Combat Humor – The “Brown Duck” Story
  • Amidst dangerous missions, aviators maintain morale with humor:

    “I had to go. I mean, I just crash landed the controls off. … Man, I had to go. … Brown duck. Brown duck.” (125:28)

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Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On persistence in selection:
  “Life is a selection process… Sometimes it’s not an official selection process, but… putting in that packet… that’s the life part of the selection.”
  — Brent Tucker (20:21)

• On tenacity:
  “I’m not taking no for an answer. I am not.”
  — Greg Coker (19:21)

• On flying with the best:
  “I'll put a rocket up a Black Angus's bull's ass if that's where you want it.”
  — Greg Coker, on impressing Delta assaulters (66:18)

• On regrets and family sacrifice:
  “Missing them [his kids] growing up. That's the only one. Kind of cheated them.”
  — Greg Coker (115:10)

• On humility:
  “I looked, I walked among giants. I did. I'd ask myself all the time, man, how did I get here?”
  — Greg Coker (64:07)

• On adrenaline and purpose:
  “Once you get a hit of that… once you get a hit of life and death, and once you get a hit of cheating death, nothing will replace it.”
  — Brent Tucker (112:54)

• On support to foreign forces:
  “They're asking me to hang it out for them... But never stop. We're gonna do the mission.”
  — Greg Coker (89:49, 90:27)

• On training accidents:
  “Training incidents... as horrible as it is... it's a necessity because that's almost the only way you know you've pushed it to the limits.”
  — Brent Tucker (56:25)

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Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Naming the Book "Death Waits in the Dark" (04:12–05:32)
• Army Enlistment and Route to Flight School (05:44–08:10)
• First Solo Flight & Vietnam-Era Flight Instructors (13:12–14:29)
• Night Vision Challenges and Evolution (28:26–32:07)
• Selection/Audacity in Demanding Release to 160th (18:49–19:27)
• Responsibility of Special Operations Aviators (79:27)
• Surviving Being Shot Down in Iraq (92:41–103:12)
• Combat Humor—"Brown Duck" Story (124:58–127:29)
• Book Details & Charitable Proceeds (119:02–120:55)

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Conclusion

Greg Coker’s story is one of relentless drive, hard-earned expertise, sacrifice, and humility—characteristics emblematic of the Night Stalkers and America’s special operations community. This episode is both an inside look at the realities faced by elite SOF aviators and an inspiring reminder of the cost and value of service, the pursuit of excellence, and the bonds of brotherhood that last a lifetime.

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For more about Greg and to support veterans:

• Book: Death Waits in the Dark (Audible & Kindle)
• Blades for Brothers Nonprofit (veterans’ knife-making workshops)

Listen to more Tier1 Podcast episodes for authentic, unmatched insights from the world’s most elite operators.

Transcript

[A]

Sam, It. It's it.

[B]

Foreign. Welcome back to another episode of the Tier One podcast. I'm your host, Brent Tucker, owner of FRCC. That's First Responders Coffee, Cigar and Bourbon Company. Go to FRCC Shop and use promo code TIER1 to get 15 off the world's best coffee, cigars and bourbon.

[A]

And I'm Drew Tucker, chief of research and development at FRCC Shop. Guys, join our Patreon there. It's brought to you by Cobalt Kinetics and you'll get behind the scenes exclusive content. There's a fitness forum, there's a weapons forum. There's a weapons expert from Cobalt Kinetics ready to answer all of your gun questions. Join the Patreon today and if you don't at least like and subscribe, help the channel.

[B]

And as always, this episode is brought to you by Human Performance TRT. Go to hp-trt.com use promo code tier1 and get 20 off all of your testosterone and peptide needs. Don't wait any longer to get in the best shape of your life. Guys, I'm excited about this one. With us today we have chief Warrant Officer for retired Greg Coker. 22 years in the US army as a helicopter pilot, majority of his time spent with the legendary 1/60 SOAR Special Operations Aviation Regiment. And also the author of the book Death Waits in the Dark. Welcome to show Greg.

[A]

Thank you. I'm honored to be here, man.

[B]

It's pleasure is all mine. We've already talked about a little bit and I. If it wasn't for you and your old unit and the standards guys like you passed down, I wouldn't be here because of the relationship our units have together. And it doesn't end on the battlefield. Just having a 1 60th guy here is, is important to me.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Absolutely. I love, and I love the name of your book Death Waits in the Dark. It's not. The name of a book is important. I'm sure it weighs on you. How long did it take you to come up with a great name like that?

[A]

Yes, there's quite a bit of thought. Many sleepless nights, waking up in the middle of the night, jotting down on a, you know, a. A pad. And it took, oh gosh, I'm going to say 10 or 12 cuts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, between Geo and I and until we came up with, hey, this, this is what we do. This is what it's going to be. So death weights in the dark.

[B]

It's our motto to put you on the spot because like I said, it's it's similar. I've never written a book, but I've had to come up with whether it be the name of a company, the name of products. And you always used to go back and for you get one shot at it and has to be good.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Do you remember some of the names that you almost went with?

[A]

You know. No, I flushed them. Well, I don't want them with six guns. Don't miss. That's our motto for B Company, for the AH Company. But, you know, we really wanted something that, hey, when you look at it and it's going to grab you, it has to grab you and. Yeah. Get a hold of your first hook.

[B]

Right. Well. Well, you did it. But let's, let's get into your, into your story and we'll. We'll definitely talk more about the book later. When did you join and what made you join?

[A]

1986 is when I joined. And at the time, and I was older, I was 25 years old when I joined the army, but I needed to go somewhere in my lifetime and, you know, I looked at the army as, as a tool. I always wanted to fly. So that was the main reason I didn't have a college degree. So the other services were out. And the army has the warrant officer program. High school to flight. Schools are big selling point back then. And as a child of the 60s and 70s, I watched the Vietnam War on, you know, one of the two or three channels we had. And I was infatuated with helicopters. My dad was in the air force for 30 years, so I was always, you know, around the flight lines and watching jets and airplanes take off and land. So, yeah, it was, it was planted into me, I think, at a very young age.

[B]

What from high school to flight school.

[A]

What.

[B]

What all does that entail?

[A]

Because they'll.

[B]

It sounds real quick. Something tells me what. It's not that quick of a process.

[A]

No, it's not. Especially back then we didn't have Internet and, you know, everything had to be hand carried, handwritten. And for me, I joined the Army. I was assigned to the 101st, the 327th Infantry. And I started the process once I got to Fort Campbell. And it probably took me six, seven months as a soldier and I know as a civilian, it takes. It would take them probably up to a year to get all their paperwork package, their flight physicals, testing. It's quite a process.

[B]

Yeah, there's, there's. You can look at the process two ways, and I, I always do hate a long process because I'm I'm sure as you looked at it, it's probably unnecessary and long, but if you really think about it, it's also the very jumping off point to a weeding out process. Absolutely.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And I, I hate to almost give some sort of like, positive light to a, to a bad system that's. It's just, it's just bad and slow and painful. It doesn't have to be, but it is true. It's amazing how many people just won't put in a packet if it's, if it's too big of a chore.

[A]

Yep. They just.

[B]

Right off the bat. Right. Right off the bat. We don't, we don't need you.

[A]

Yes. It was easy, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. So that's, that's how I went and went through that process to get to flight school.

[B]

Let's talk about flight school real quick. What, what all platforms are you flying in flight school at this time in the mid-80s? Well, what do you start out with?

[A]

Yes, sir. They. We had the TH55 for, like, I think it was four days. It was my class, the class ahead of me. They, they did away with that helicopter and transitioned us into the Huey.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So we flew the Huey for contact, what they call contact. You learned hover and basic airmanship and of course, all your groundwork. So it's a half a day in class and then half a day at the flight line and go learn your trade.

[B]

It's got to be surreal. After you, what you just told me about growing up looking at Vietnam. Huey just the iconic platform for Vietnam.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

And here you are, your mid-20s, going out there to fire up a Huey and fly it.

[A]

Yeah, it's one of those. You have to pinch myself. And, and yeah, it was, it was a dream come true. And it's, it's a lot of hard work also. You got to be totally committed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. Yeah. And you just, you keep building on it every day, every hour of flight time.

[B]

I. The only way I can kind of correlate it for me is kind of flying in the wind tunnel, like, as far as, like, your beginning process of it.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And they can, they can take you through all the classroom stuff they want. They can lay on the ground and tell you where, where your arms and legs are supposed to be. And then for some reason, you jump into the wind tunnel and you forget almost the plan you had and how easy this kind of looked. Just nothing seems, Nothing seems to be going right for a little bit.

[A]

No.

[B]

Is, is that kind of how flying is at the very beginning.

[A]

Well, in your. You have to learn to hover.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And in the helicopter, if you move one control, you have to move the other two. There's not, you know, just one single control. So if I move the cyclic, I have to move the collective and I have to move pedal. I move a collective, I got to move the other two to stay in stable, you know, unstable flight. And of course, hovering. That's. Man, that was just. That was the unicorn in flight schools.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Once you hit that, it was just like, oh, yeah, man, I got this down now.

[B]

So do you feel looking back at the time, whether you were right where you needed to be ahead of your class or. Or a little bit below, like, when it. When it came to that?

[A]

No, I. I felt, you know, I was. I was where I needed to be and supposed to be at that time. I mean, God put me there. So I don't argue with him. I have. I'm sure you have for sure. He always wins. But no, I felt. Yeah, I felt. I was like.

[B]

You had a handle on it. It wasn't. It was challenging, but it wasn't bigger than you.

[A]

But to. Living on a farm and ranch, I learned to run. Actually, my IP said something about this to me one day that because I could run a backhoe, I could run a dozer. So all that hand eye coordination and foot coordination, and he says, hey, you run heavy equipment before? And I said, yes, sir, I have. So, you know, it helped. I guess.

[B]

This could be the most dangerous heavy equipment you've ever run in your life.

[A]

Yeah. He'd say, hey, just don't kill us, okay? Yes, sir.

[B]

I. I did have a. The first time that I jumped out of an airplane, and when I say airplane for free fall, you know, 15, 12,500ft higher than. Than I've ever been. Not static line. And you really can't screw up static line.

[A]

Right.

[B]

As guys have tried and you can, but it's hard. It's hard. Too bad.

[A]

Jump master.

[B]

When it comes to freefall, there's a lot of left and. And right limits that you can absolutely screw up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was going up on the bird the first. First day, and my instructor looked at me and goes, you nervous? And I looked him right in the eyes and lied to him and said, nope, I got this. I'm a future Delta Force operator. I just graduated otc. This is just a. I'm getting ready to go to squadron. I can't. I can't let this guy know that a little jump out of an airplane is going to make me nervous. I couldn't have been more nervous. Yes, sure. And he looked at me and he said something that completely calmed my nerves to the best of anyone's ability. And he goes, well, that'd be pretty weird if you weren't nervous, but just in case you are, let me tell you something. Something tells me my eyes weren't. Weren't as confident as my voice Just. Just was to him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He goes, I can't mirror the amount of jumps. So he's like, I got 10,000, 15,000. Just an absurd amount of jumps. He goes, I want to let you know there's nothing you can do in the air that. That I can't fix.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

I can fix anything you do in the air. And. And I can. I can even make sure you get under canopy safely. Now, after that, that's on you. But that's the easy part. And after he told me that I did. I walked up there and I was like, he's right. What am I nervous about? This guy can. Can fix it. Did you have that. Tell that whole story?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You have that same sort of confidence that at the end of the day, though, when you're there, you have a guy next to you that can take over the controls and.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

Yeah, you bet.

[A]

You have the confidence and that, you know, Most of the IPs I had when I went through were all Vietnam vets and had, you know, 12, 15,000 flight hours and multiple combat tours.

[B]

Did you ever get to talk to them and hear their stories or strictly. Yeah.

[A]

Yes, sir. Yes, sure did. And I think the next confidence builder was when we got to solo. So at a certain hour, when you get a certain amount of hours and you and your stick buddy. Everybody has a stick buddy and you get to go solo. And, yeah, I was scared, man.

[B]

It's like, it's all new now.

[A]

He was like, don't. Don't kill yourself. Okay? So. But yeah, they, you know, they get us trained up. They know we're ready for it when they put us up for our solo ride or any check ride.

[B]

How many. How many hours do you get to log in there during the training? Roughly?

[A]

It's like 120, I believe.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes, sir. Depending on what aircraft you transitioned into, you know, black auction. And they do it all different now that.

[B]

At the time when you went through, did you know what platform you were going to when you're in flight school?

[A]

No, not until you become a. A senior. So you're in your last phase of flight School and you put in a dream sheet. And I wanted to fly guns. I wanted to, you know, shoot things and blow stuff up, so I chose Cobras.

[B]

Okay. Was it top three, Top five? What do they give you on. On your dream sheet? Do you remember how many options they give you?

[A]

3.

[B]

3. Do you remember what your three options were?

[A]

Cobra. Cobra. Cobra. I did.

[B]

Did you really?

[A]

But nobody wanted guns. They wanted the new Blackhawk or they wanted scouts. Yeah, Yeah, I did. I put Cobra three times.

[B]

So you got.

[A]

I got Cobras.

[B]

I love that. I do. And I hate telling people to do this, because if I have to tell you to do it, then it's. Then it's not who you are. It's not authentic. But if people will realize at a young age, go after what you want with a tenacity.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

Don't take no for an answer like so many people are scared to just to ask for it or to. Or to just.

[A]

You need to fulfill your dream.

[B]

Right. You. You. It's a. It's a weird balance, right, because you're in this big system, like, you're a cog in this massive system called the Army.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But people underestimate still, like, how much. How much power that you. You can. You can wield. Hate to say your own destiny, but. But it's true. And whether it's flying and. And some of it's just a temporary no or for me, I was told that I couldn't go to sfas to selection the first time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I fought him and fought him and fought him, and then I went to sfa. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, you know, ask for what you want.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Ask. How can I get it? If you're told no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you're told no and have to get. Go somewhere else, figure out how do I get back?

[A]

How do I get around that one?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Just don't ever quit. Right. Never ever quit. And that reminds me of a story. So I had assessed for the 1 60th, and I was flying Apaches at the time, okay. And DA put out a letter that says, we're not going to release any Apache pilots to go to the 160th. And I was just like, oh, come on, man. I've worked, worked my tail off to get here. I got assessed, I got picked up. You know, I'm going to the best aviation unit in the world. Go be with the best soldiers and aviators and crew chiefs and army guys in the world. So I came home, I was pretty upset, and I sat There and sat there that afternoon. I looked at the letter. And so I got my dress greens, I put them in the back of my truck. I got my truck and I drove to 200 Stovall street in Washington, D.C. where the warrant officer. Where their headquarters is. So I drove all night, got there that morning, got out, put my uniform on, marched my butt upstairs to Warrant Officer Branch. I sat down in front of the guy's desk, introduced myself, and I laid that piece of paper on his desk. I said, you have two choices, sir. Either you release me to go to the 160th, or I'm getting out of the Army. And he said, you lose me. Have you got any sleep lately? I said, no. He said, you drove from Fort Campbell. I said, I left yesterday afternoon, sir, and here I am. Well, he said, I'll sign the paper.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yep. Sure did.

[B]

Did you know at the time, did you mean it? Do you think you'd have got out?

[A]

Yes, I would have. Sure would have. I was at that point. Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to go fly with the best.

[B]

What. What a bold maneuver. But that's what it took.

[A]

That's what it took.

[B]

And what's. What's the. And this is just. What's the worst. He could have said? What's. The worst good happened to you? He just tell you?

[A]

Yeah, he said, yeah. He could say no. You know, we put. We've put all this money into you to train you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The Apache helicopter. And.

[B]

But that's the. The worst he could have done was say no, which would have been this. The answer you already had. So no. So no change.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By taking this, this, this bold step. But now you at least have a chance at yes, absolutely.

[A]

And you took a chance and I did. And I was like, I'm not taking no for an answer. I am not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, everybody thought I was crazy. Maybe I am a little bit, but. And maybe on, you know, probably on the 18 hour drive home, if he just said no, I'd. I probably said, okay, well, I'll just. I'll try another way.

[B]

I've said it before. I'll say it again. There's so many. Life is a selection process. You know, you have to get the. Sometimes the. It's. It's not an official selection process, but we kind of already talked about it. Put. Putting in a big packet where everyone else is like, this is just too much work. Like, why is it an easier just doing that? The type of mentality you have to have to Work in a unit like that has to be someone who's all in on this job and will drive all night to D.C. to just get a chance at that job. I mean, sir, that's part of, of, that's the life part of the selection process.

[A]

It is, it is.

[B]

It really is. I, I, I love that, I love that story.

[A]

You know, we both worked hard to get where we got to and you know, uss we assess. I mean, it's a process. And again, the process is to weed out the week and, you know, we don't want those that want to second guess or, you know, even think about quitting. No, we can't quit.

[B]

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[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm sure it was easy for them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't see how hard you fought to get there. They didn't see all the hours that you put in of extra training, honing your craft to get an opportunity to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No one has an easy path to, to greatness.

[A]

No, nobody does. Hard work will set you free.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, speaking of the hard work it took to get there, were you already thinking at any actually take a step back even more than this. Did you know about the 160th by the time you got to your first unit.

[A]

Yes, okay, Yes, I did. I actually, when I was enlisted at Campbell, you know, we see the little black helicopters flying around and, you know, we kind of poke and ask questions and tune started to say, you know, shut the hell up. You don't see those, they're not there. But a good friend of mine was in the unit, MB Company. Jerry Harp. And yeah, we cowboy together and rope together and, and so I knew about the unit and.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes. Yes, sir.

[B]

Was it always something that you knew you were going to, to work towards? Yes, from the beginning. Absolutely love that.

[A]

Day one.

[B]

Even though you gotta. It's. That's. I love the idea of it because again, this is just commonality between very different jobs. But the very similar people do those jobs. I remember being in the Q course, not even a green Brewer yet. Part of my mind was already thinking, I wonder what the next level is. Like, I wonder if I could go to Delta Force. And of course I kind of suppressed that because I kind of, I kind of had to because it's crazy to even think about Delta Force. And you haven't even put your Green Beret on yet. But. And I don't think I've. I've said that out loud oh very many times. But it's funny here, here you are as well as a new guy, already been like, what's. Let me think about what, what. That's where I want to go.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

But, you know, I think Kyle Morgan said me other day, and it's just a funny saying. If, if you don't, if you, if you have no destination, if you have no plans, any road will take you there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not a bad thing to have lofty goals because that's how you can set. That's how you can get on the right road.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

To get to that destination.

[A]

You bet. Whatever it takes to get there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know.

[B]

So what was. Would you fly at first when you got to the 101st Apaches?

[A]

Well, after, when I finished flight school in 1990, March of 90, I went to South Korea. I flew Cobras, H1 for one tour there. And then I came back and already had an Apache transition and back to Fort Campbell. So I flew first to the 101st there at Campbell for about two and a half years before I went and assessed.

[B]

And when, when did you assess?

[A]

93.

[B]

93, yes, sir. When looking to assess to go to that unit. Most special operation units have, have minimums that, that they're looking for before you can go over?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What, what was. Did you know the minimums and you're working towards that?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What are those minimums?

[A]

So then they wanted you to have a thousand hours of flight time and 100 hours of night vision goggles. Now, that was a bit of a problem for me because I only had six. I had like 680 hours, but I had over 200 hours of night vision goggles as a W1.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So they, you know, they weighed that. It's like, well, okay. But they took a chance on Greg Coker because I didn't quite meet one standard, but I had over double of the higher standard. And it takes some time, you know, it's Generally mid level CW2 before you can get a thousand hours of flight time depending on your aircraft.

[B]

Now, I gotta ask you a different question because I love this, the audacity you've had this whole time. You know, you don't meet the minimum standards. So why, why would you walk over there without meeting the minimum standards? I. It's a question. I know the answer. But why did you walk over there not meeting the minimum standards?

[A]

I knew I was prepared.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Yeah, I knew I was prepared.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I worked again. I had friends that were in the unit, you know, and they'd kind of, they wouldn't tell me what I had to do for the assessment. But, you know, they're like, hey, you might want to work on this, work on that. You know, navigation, hitting your targets. I mean, the, the standards at the unit are plus or minus 30 seconds, and those aren't given for anything. That's the standard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I worked on navigating cross country at night with night vision goggles, you know, hitting checkpoints at that time and then hitting my target plus or minus 30 seconds.

[B]

Now with, you know, hours being the limitation and, and you knowing that's what you need more of.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I'm just unfamiliar with the aviation side of the house. Other than being, being a passenger for you guys. A lot of, lot of experience there.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

Does the regular military give you the ability to get more hours or is it like a set hours and. And that's kind of all you get?

[A]

Yes and no. Okay. So again, it depends on your airframe. So the gun guys, I think our minimums were like 140 hours per year. You had to fly 140 hours per year, whereas the Blackhawk or the 58 guys, theirs were like 250 hours a year. So they got to fly more because it cost less. To run that platform.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Apache costs a heck of a lot more than an OH58.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But. And then it depends on what unit you're in and your command culture. You know, our. I was fortunate because my commanders were always go fly, fly, fly, fly.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

So I had that opportunity to do that. Yeah. So that. Yeah, that's a good question. I hadn't thought about that in a long time.

[B]

And the. We're talking early 90s. What, what was the night vision capabilities? I mean that. With. Even when the G. W.A.T. started, you know, the, the technology really started.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, getting implemented then and getting better and better. There wasn't. There wasn't. It was still getting better, but at a slower rate back then because we didn't have anything forcing us to get better.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What kind, what type of night vision were you flying with back then?

[A]

In flight school, when I did the Cobra transition, we flew with full face fives, so. And then they had. They. Somebody cut them away and then. But it was crazy because you'd have to focus one tube inside and then focus the other tube so you can see right side.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And you know, that's, that's what we did. And you learned to do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then as you progressed, you know, we had, we did have Ambus when I was in Korea, they had just gotten the dual tube aviator night vision goggles. I don't remember what gen they were probably gen ones and Omni one or twos. Then when I got to Campbell, we had ambus in the Apache also. And in the Apache you fly with a flir, so you put the little monocle over your eye. Front seat and backseat guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we also had the option at the time of Lt. Col. Cody, future four star general, but he was our commander and he really pushed night vision goggles. Front seat, back seat, in case something went down. Boom. Pop your goggles down and. Yeah, use those.

[B]

So as the years went, did. And the technology got better. Did the limitations of illumination and, and what you were able to fly with. Did. Did it. Did it change or is it kind of always been the same? What, what was your illumination limitations? Yeah, you were in the 101st flying those.

[A]

There were. There were minimums and gosh, I can't remember. The moon had to be a certain degree above the horizon and a certain aluminum. I think it was 23% alum. Because of the men. Something like that.

[B]

Yeah. Because. And not everyone realizes this, but, you know, night vision goggles, as. As magical as they are, they. They're not complete magic. They, they need illumination. They, they amplify the small amount of light.

[A]

That's cultural lighting. Starlight.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But if you have an overcast sky now, you don't have anything.

[B]

Right. It doesn't, it doesn't turn night vision from nothing into night vision unless you bring it with, with IR illumination. Yeah, but it's, it, it is amplifying the illumination that, that is there. So it needs some illumination to, to amplify. And of course, the, the older generations just. Oh, God, they needed a little bit more, a little more illumination to help them out.

[A]

Cell flashlight.

[B]

Or else it just look like a fuzzy TV channel.

[A]

That was it, man. That was it. You could make out the horizon, you know. Okay, this is good. I'm. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Do you sometimes look back at the, the end of your career, flying with amazing, amazing night vision technology, and look back at the beginning, go, that was dangerous. Or how did we ever do that?

[A]

Was crazy. Crazy. And then I think about the guys in Vietnam that flew Huey's at night with no.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm like, oh, my goodness. Like, yeah, they did it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so.

[B]

And they did it and they did it.

[A]

We did the.

[B]

So you end up going over, over to the 160th in 93. You said February of 93.

[A]

That's when I assessed and then I started Green Platoon. And I want to say July. June. July. Yeah. It's pretty fast flash to bang because I was right there at Campbell and

[B]

I'm always respectful of selections as, as they, as, as we should be. So. But I still like to talk generally about them.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That that selection process is a, is a, is more of a physical and mental selection.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Correct. You're not, you're not flying anything just yet.

[A]

Well, for. Or for the assessment?

[B]

For the assessment.

[A]

Yeah. You, you fly a route at the end of that week, they give you a mission, they give you a target, and then they give you, I think, 24, 36 hours to plan it. And then that's the last thing you do is go fly your mission.

[B]

Were, were you prepared or aware how physical the selection was, was going to be?

[A]

It was mentally challenging. No watches, you know, okay, we're going to do a PT test. Okay, well, how. Where am I? You don't know. You don't know how many push ups you're supposed to do. There's no timers, there's no nothing. Okay, we're gonna go do a ruck march, road march. Where am I going? Well, don't worry about it just onto the next one.

[B]

And that's always a. A constant theme through special operations selections, as it should be that the unknown part of it. And it's always amazing to me, and it might be just because I'm too simple sometimes, but it never bothered me. It never bothered me. But the amount that would bother some people, they had to know.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

They had to know how far they were going.

[A]

They had to do their time.

[B]

Right. They just. They had to work in that known.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And to me, it was just like, all right, I'll just go that way. Yeah.

[A]

They'll just push myself as hard as

[B]

I can, tell me when to stop. Yeah. They're like, well, when are we gonna stop? I don't. I don't know. Whenever they tell us to stop. It didn't bother me at. At all. But it is. It is crazy how. How much that. That affects certain people. And it's a. Again, it's a real small part of it, but until you go through it, it's hard to replicate that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And tell someone, hey, it's unknown distance. And people hear that, they're like, okay, so.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, until you're doing it, you may think differently about it. When you're really tired, you don't know how much further you got to go.

[A]

Yeah. Just keep picking them up, putting them down, and.

[B]

And you don't know how to pace yourself clue. You just have no. So you do the best you can

[A]

with that, with the don't quit.

[B]

Just don't quit.

[A]

That's all they're looking for, man. Don't quit. I remember, you know, we do this. We had to do a swim test, and last thing I remember at the end was the safety diver's hand coming to grab me. Yeah, I was. I was done. I just started sinking. I guess I blacked out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, okay. They don't tell if you're a go or no go at any event. And then psychological tests, you know, MMPIs. And you spend a lot of time with the psych and talking to him and, you know, gosh, did I answer that right or did I. You know, you're.

[B]

Man, you're. You're bringing up memories of things I haven't thought of in a while. The psych test again, it's in. It didn't. It didn't bother me a whole lot, but just having other people just start reanalyzing their questions, like, real and really messing with. Oh, should I said that? What if they looked at that? That's not how I meant it. I don't know how they took that answer. It's just, it's just again, it's, it is, it's. It's a weird process to go through.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And it gets work and it works. And it gives you plenty of opportunity to what we call self assess and go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because naturally you just want to. Most people, unless you're a narcissist, just your brain can start going towards the negative.

[A]

Yes, it can. Very rapidly. Very rapidly.

[B]

Yeah. And you have to.

[A]

You just got to fight.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You just got to fight through.

[B]

Absolutely. How long was. Was. Was Green team or green platoon?

[A]

Green platoon for the ah. Is like eight. Eight months. Yes. Or eight months. Because we have to. The other guys are shorter. The Blackhawk and the Chinook and then the MH6 Little Birds. Because we have to learn to shoot, go to the range, ballistics, all the weapon systems. Ours is a little bit longer and we're smarter.

[B]

At what point did you, did you know that was the platform you're going to get to fly?

[A]

I did not know it was. It's always needs of the army or needs of the unit. And on my board, you know, the very last thing you do is your board, okay. And put your class A's on report, report to the board and the Colonel and your IPs in there, the shrinks there, some guys you'd never seen for your life, they're all sitting there looking at you. And they asked me, it was like, well, Mr. Coker, what do you want to fly? And I said, sir, I'll fly hot air balloons. That's what you want me to fly. That's a true answer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And. But I said, I, you know, I'm a gun guy. I want to go to B Company and fly a sixes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

What, what a difference it makes because earlier you had a. You had your, your dream sheet and you knew exactly what. What you want on the fly. But it really makes a difference when you have a job and it's a dream job and you know that's where you want to be. People will do anything to work with that caliber of people.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You flew in hot air balloon. Just, just, just to be a part of. Just to be a part of it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that is, that's the magic member of the unit.

[A]

And you're gonna go fight with the best in the world.

[B]

So at, at the same time. Yeah. I really wanted to know what both the year and the month, because 93 was, was a tough year. For. For those guys.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And would that have been towards the end of Green Platoon, when. When the Black Hawk down incident happened? Were you still in jail?

[A]

It was, yeah, we were in Green Platoon. I can remember watching them leave, taking off, going to Somalia, and then. Yeah. And then they. I remember seeing the planes come back and bringing the guys back. It was October 5th or 6th, I think, and then going to the award ceremony. Yeah. Those guys.

[B]

What a. What a drastic difference because you. You see them going off.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To Somalia. To do. To do cool things.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you're like, this is why I signed up. No one else is going to go do these missions. The 160th is still. Is still doing things. This is why I'm here. But then a short time later, get to find out the. The reality of. Of those cool missions. It's a very risky job.

[A]

Very, very risky. But I think that's some of the draw why we go where we go or do what we do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't you think so?

[B]

I know so. I'll tell you a story that I read in Charlie Beckwith's book, Delta Force, and when he was working inside the Mekong Delta, the. They were trying to get Green Berets to do a recon mission, but he knew they were going to send people further than they. Than they normally would be. They knew they'd be hanging things out there. So he wanted to run a selection for this group of people.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

And they ended up posting a flyer that says, wanted green brace for Special Missions, Valor awards Or. Or body bags. Oh, it's. It was something very similar to that. And one of the guys came up to him and says, that's a horrible recruiting campaign. No one's going to volunteer for that. And they weren't actually. That's. They weren't running a selection. They just needed people to volunteer for it. They had so many people volunteer for it, they had to run this election.

[A]

Kidding.

[B]

Because that's as crazy. That's. That is the draw. It's what men want. They want to be tested.

[A]

We want to be challenged.

[B]

They want to be challenged. They know. They know the danger of it. And whether it. Whether it be for the better or not, I think at the end of the day, we all tell ourselves it's. It's a possibility, it's a risk, but it won't happen to me.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

Yeah. And it's. And it's a lie. And it's a lie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But.

[A]

But it's gonna make God laugh too.

[B]

But it's. It's what you got to tell yourself to do it.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

Yeah. So absolutely. That's. That is. That is an ironic part of the draw.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To it.

[A]

Yeah. It's always interested me. You know what?

[B]

If you've ever been to any of my tactical training classes, then you know how adamant I am about the use of white light and the importance of a quality high powered tactical light. That's why I use cloud defensive tac lights. You can't hit what you can't see and neither can the bad guys. Clearly identify your target and simultaneously overwhelm his vision with hundreds and even thousands of lumens. Get serious about defending yourself and your family. Go to clouddefensive.com and use promo code tier one to get 30% off your order. That's right, 30%. You won't find a better light than this and you won't find a better deal than this.

[A]

And our docs, our psychiatrists, they called us A plus personality. You know, there's a personality.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, you guys are A plus personalities. You sit on the fence and. Of being crazy and not crazy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You, you, you do. You have to be a little bit crazy to. To do that job in a good way. Yeah. There's. I've heard it, you know, described a couple different ways, and I don't know if I completely agree with any of it, but I understand what, what they're getting at. You know, I've heard people describe as, you kind of got to be like a 49 criminal to do it. Like something that's just not right with you. But in the day, you're more good than you are bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, you know, you'll hopefully always do the right thing.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

Yeah. You have to be a little crazy. The A personality is, which is what makes guys like you great. It's, it's your biggest asset and it's also your biggest detriment.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because we have a hard time deciphering what we're going to go all into.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We have to go into all, all into everything.

[A]

Everything, everything.

[B]

Whether that be.

[A]

Whether there's no 99.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Whether it be good, whether it be bad. It's. It's hard to, it's hard to reel back anything in your life.

[A]

Yeah. And it's about the guy on your left and right, too. Your buddy's tribe.

[B]

That's what it's all about. All about when you, when you finally make it. In fact, I actually want to talk about training just for A little bit, yeah. You had. You had twice as many night hours as. As you needed. You're a little bit, you know, fresh as far as you're not a scene. You're not a season like senior aviator, but you're going out for this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Were you. Were you surprised at the. At the training? Do you think you were mentally prepared for the training they're going to put you in? Because obviously they're going to put you in some situations. Yeah. You've that. That are going to prove that you are the best pilot. So when you're going through that training, was there a point you're like, I had no idea they would ask me to do this in a helicopter.

[A]

Oh, yeah, well, that I could do

[B]

this in a helicopter.

[A]

You bet. You bet. And we did it safely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, they, you know, the. Your IP that you're always flying with. Yeah. I mean, there were several nights. I'm like, man, I don't know if I could do this or not, you know, and here's an example. We're sitting there one night at Shock Pad, getting. Getting ready to take off, go do our route. And I was flying with legendary Randy Jones, Randall Jones, and I mean, here came a thunderstorm like you'd never seen. It was lightning. The wind was blowing. And I'm sitting there thinking, okay, is this a test? Does he want me to say we're going back to the airfield, or do I say, hey, we're gonna take off? Because I'm watching the clock, you know, my takeoff times coming up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so Randy looks at his knees. Do this right here, you know, he's like, well, what do you want to do? I said, let's go hit the target. He goes, okay. And I said, and lightning hit. I don't know. I'll be like, right there. He goes, which way are you going to go? I said, I'm headed for where that lightning hit. He goes, what? I said, yeah, it never hits the same place twice. He's like, you're a duck, boy. He said, go. Yes, sir. Let's go.

[B]

Sound logic. Yeah, sound logic.

[A]

Yep. Yeah, that was a fun night.

[B]

Was. Was there anything, you know, and those, like the pass or fail events that yet you had to do that you feel like were the most challenging, whether it being like, LIP landing or like, certain aspects to it like that is because if you're thinking about. I don't. I don't know if they do or not, because I don't know if. I don't know how many lip landings 100. You were doing in 100? Never even heard of it in an Apache. As a little bird pilot, it was the gun side. But were you still doing lip landings as a little bird?

[A]

Yeah, we were doing. Yes, sir. We, they'd take us and you know, teach us how to do all kind of challenging landings and I mean we'd be up mop 4 MVGs and doing run on landings in a field on a slope. So. But it was just to give us confidence that we, you know, the machine will do it. But we have to build our confidence and tell Greg Coker he can do it. Yeah, you bet.

[B]

It's, it's crazy when, when you start working with you guys. We have the best helicopters, we have the best technology. But in the day, just like us, you guys are the master of the basics. You're a master of the basics.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

And that includes map reading. Yep, map, navigation. Right, reading.

[A]

Train, winds, all the things that go with.

[B]

How about putting a grease pencil on your windshield for.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

Making your gun runs.

[A]

That's a fact.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Isn't that crazy?

[B]

That is crazy. That's just a grease pencil on your windshield.

[A]

Grease pencil mark. That's our color pipper. And that's what we used to aim with. Aim the helicopter.

[B]

Yeah. And effective.

[A]

It's extremely effective. And you know, my tenure there, man, we tried all kind of whiz bang gizmos and sights and. But Fred Horsley summed it up one day, he said the brain, the human brain is a fastest computer in the world. And you know, you sit there and like, oh, friends, right. And, but I'd have out. I got invite. You probably know these guys like Robbie Latham, Michael Void, Benny Coodley come out and do training for us. And I was a competitive shooter also, and I'd take them to the aircraft and then I'd take them out to the range. Always made sure we had a range day and watch a shoot. And they. Jerry Barnhart, he would, he'd sit in that helicopter and he just, you could see, he just. It would not calculate.

[B]

Ed.

[A]

He's like, I don't see how you guys do this. We do it, man. I can put a rocket in a window 600 meters.

[B]

Yeah, you can. Yeah.

[A]

So it's just a grease pencil.

[B]

It's pretty cool. And it really is, it really is the, you know, with, with. I almost want to say the, the reset that Black Hawk down, you know, the battle of Magadishu did, did for all of us. It's, it's, it's hard to. And I only know this from talking to older guys.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

It's not that we weren't prepared for war. You're, you're at a tier one unit. You always, you are prepared for it, but there's, there's nothing like the reality of, of doing it and there's nothing about like the reality of something going wrong.

[A]

Right.

[B]

To remind you were not bulletproof.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And things can go. And things can go wrong even though you just got there. How long do you think that that or how do you think that affected the culture of, of the unit and, or any changes or reactions that might have come from it or is it.

[A]

Yes, sir. Yeah, there, there were a lot of changes. And of course, you know, we were focused on training and Green Platoon. You know, we're completely separate from the regiment and, but we get bits and pieces or IPs. They're, they're retired B Company guys that stay on as contractors. So we can keep that continuity within the regiment for years and years and years. And it's probably like Green or Delta, but. Yeah. And we get bits and pieces and then start to see implementation of, you know, tactics or procedures, things like that. But you know, we're at that. We're just focused. I mean we're working 18, 19 hours a day, flying every night and just. Yeah, just doing what you got to do to.

[B]

Well, and almost a, almost a decade goes by between our next truly major major conflict.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that's when the G. Wat started to 9 11. There was plenty of time for us to almost get into, you know, I'd almost call it a lull or a little bit of complacency.

[A]

Complacency.

[B]

And I don't think at the time we would have looked at ourselves and said we were being complacent. I think that's something we do. Looking, looking back and said I'm not, I'm not sure we were as completely ready as we could have been or should have been.

[A]

Yeah, well, from my point that man, we trained hard. I mean, we trained and trained and trained all the time. I averaged 292 days a year. TDY.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So.

[B]

And you don't, you don't know where the next war is. That's also a part of the problem. You know, it's easy to look back, you know, and say that. But again, when you're in it, you're, you're doing, you're doing your best with all that training hours. How much was dedicated or is there ever a dedication to Say, hey, let's, let's go out to the desert. Let's make sure we can operate in sandy environments as well.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

There's plenty of that.

[A]

Yes. Desert, urban, mountains over water. We did a lot, a lot of over water. And I just hate ships. I don't like those things. And, and I asked, I think it was Fred one time, I'm like, why do we do so much over water training? He said, well, 70%. He had numbers. 70% of the world's population is within 300 miles of a shoreline. Thought about that. Okay. Makes sense. Yeah. Urban. Yeah, we, we go and train in all the environments. Have to. Because everyone's different. Everyone, you know, urban, urban is different than desert or mountains.

[B]

I'm assuming you guys did some sort of desert type training when you're in Green Platoon.

[A]

Yes. So it wouldn't be desert, mountain, over water. All right.

[B]

You don't, you don't want to be operational the first time you deal with a Brown.

[A]

Fellas go do 10 brownout landings, zero loom.

[B]

That is, that is something that was always. That I feel like I took for granted at the beginning, whether it be on an ODA or even at the beginning of my unit time, you're not, you're so hyper focused on what's in front of you, you don't have time to think about a bigger picture. No, but at some point in my career, I remember going into a brown out and thinking, I wonder how they're doing. How are they dealing with this up here? Because some of those brownouts start so early and they're so the Hawks, they'll

[A]

start at 100ft and they're 20ft.

[B]

And certain landings, it's not just you can brown out in a place that's really close to a building. So it's not like it's just be one thing to just glide it in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stay on that path. In an open desert, that's, that's going to work itself out. But when you have obstacles around you and you're in that brown out, I mean, from up there, you're responsible for

[A]

all of us on the X.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

They're going to the door, right. You're 200 meters away, like the Air Force. Sorry.

[B]

How is it that, how is it that, that you deal with that or with the brown out like as, as, as that's happening and you can't see anything. What's, what's going through your mind as a pilot?

[A]

Yeah. You pick a spot. Okay. Once you get set up, get set up for Your approach, you know, you get 100ft, 60 knots, and you just start a gradual slow. You slow down, you pick a spot and, and I'd pick like at our farts, so our forward arming refueling points, we'd have an IR chem out there. So boom, there's your object. I mean, a rock or a group of grass. I mean, I've had to pick that out. Well, that's, that's what I'm flying to. And as you look in closer to the aircraft, there'll be a bubble in a little bird where you can see. And I just, you know, I just sit there and I just lock onto that, whatever that was down there and just fly the aircraft right to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's just a little bit of a bubble where you can, you can see. But once you touch down, it just, it engulfs everything. You know that dust, you know, you've been on.

[B]

Oh yeah. And any, any uncomfortable moments in training where something could have gone really wrong that you had to adjust for because like in Green Platoon, you're getting pushed, which means.

[A]

And you're new to the aircraft. No. You know, you've never flown a helicopter.

[B]

Right. It almost seems like a recipe for something to go for Disaster. Disaster. I mean, but, but again, I mean it's, it's so different, but it's, it's so similar with, with our, the otc. You're asking guys to do hostage rescue, CQB at speeds they're not maybe that they may not be comfortable with using explosives all the time. You're pushing these guys really hard and you have to.

[A]

Yes, overhead shooting, danger close, and it's

[B]

a recipe for disaster. And, and we've, we've, we've had training incidents, but I think, I think it was Andy Stumpf that, that said it. He said people aren't going to want to hear this, but training incidents, gotta paraphrase them. But, and guys even dying in training, as horrible as it is horrible. It's, it's a necessity. Yeah, it's a necessity because that's almost the only way you war is. That's, that's how, that's how you know you've pushed it to the limits.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that you're ready for the real thing. And that's a really hard thing, I think, for people to hear. But for guys like us that have, have been in it, for him to say that. I get it, I get it. I get what he means by that.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

So did you guys have any, any incidents during training or Close calls for you personally?

[A]

No. Well, I think, yes, sir. It was up in the mountains, mountain flying or, you know, flying up at 10, 12,000ft in that helicopter. Well, you have a very small window of performance measures. Okay. So if you get too slow, you'll start settling with power. If you get too fast, you get into retreating blade stall. So those are two things that you don't want to happen. So I mean, I'm talking 15 knot window that you have to stay at that airspeed or you're gonna sink, crash into the mountain. And retreating blade stall here, you'll lose control of the aircraft. So it pitches up, rolls left. And I got into that one night. And yet luckily I could just turn, fly down the mountain, fly out of it. So the lesson learned, I didn't do it again.

[B]

Lesson learned. But something tells me you still had to make that landing. And so after doing that, you're like, all right, we'll go back up and do it right this time. Not. Not the confidence you want. No.

[A]

Start your approach and fly it to the ground.

[B]

Yeah. There's another aspect of that and, and obviously you've proven like you're, you're mentally durable when you doing things wrong. Isn't. Isn't the worst thing. No, it's just not. People are going to make mistakes, and you're gonna make mistakes in training. And for you, I'd imagine just talking for a little bit. I already know what, that, what you, what you wanted to do with that second approach when other people might be questioning themselves, like, well, maybe I'm not good enough to do this. Already did it wrong once. I got away with one. But what, what do you, if you can remember, what do you think? I could, I could almost tell you what it was, but what do you think your mindset was? Going back into it, Having to do it, basically dealing with that failure and having to get back into it.

[A]

Yeah, well, I'm, I'm gonna succeed. There's, you know, there's no gray area here. I've, I've got to put this machine on the ground right. And I got to do it to standard.

[B]

Yeah, I know what wrong looks like. I won't do that again.

[A]

I won't do that again.

[B]

Give, give me another opportunity.

[A]

About 160.

[B]

Give me another opportunity and I'll prove to you that I can do this.

[A]

You bet. Yep. I wanted to prove to. I think I was flying with Russia. Yeah, yeah. He was like, okay, let's do it. I know you can do it. I said, yes, sir. Let's go.

[B]

I love that. Yeah, I do, I love that.

[A]

Just don't quit.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean there's just, it's just a reoccurring theme.

[A]

Yeah. And training.

[B]

You guys should probably put it in your motto.

[A]

Yeah. And sdq, they hit it. They nailed it.

[B]

They did, guys, absolutely.

[A]

You know, in training too, like in B Company and then Ako, the two little bird companies. And there's only at any one time, I don't know, 15, 16 of US FMQ, fully mission qualified. And there's, well, there's three squadrons at Delta, there's three battalions of the Rangers. So how do you manage, you know, our little bitty company. But we still have to go do gun smokes, fixed wing bilats, rotary wing bilats, come train with you guys, do a rut or, you know, whatever.

[B]

And as we get into the gwat, what you just said is going to be your guys biggest blessing and biggest curse at the same time. How, how do you service all those customers? There's only, there's only a few of you.

[A]

Yeah. People don't realize that, Brent.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't think they do.

[B]

You think, you think we're small. Wait, wait, do you see who, who supports us? And, and for the next 20 years what we're about to ask of those pilots to help out.

[A]

And you could see it. I remember I went to, I went to Kyle Lamb's retirement out at the unit and we're, a couple of us came out for that and we were sitting there and the commander, he just, he gets up at the podium and he starts looking across the room and he says, I see a lot of tired men out there. He did, yeah. And we are, we were. But I mean, what are you going to do, quit? No, I want to go back and shoot more bad guys.

[B]

Yeah, I know I just said a little bit earlier, you know what? Also, you know, it's one of our greatest strengths is one of our greatest weaknesses or detriments and that's towards that A plus personality. But it's, it's also towards that we will run ourselves to a, to the ground. Yes. And happily do it.

[A]

We don't know when to say no.

[B]

And a little bit of a break could go a long way in, in longevity and recouping that, resetting it and be and being better, coming back better. But that, that requires a break and you won't do it.

[A]

It does, it does. And that was, you know, that was to me looking back and when GWAT started, you know, in, oh one Was well for the leadership. How are they going to manage this? Because we weren't set up to do long term operations. We were set up to go hit the target, come home. Now we're talking about months and years of operations. So, you know, my hat was off to them. They did the best they could do with what they had. What we had.

[B]

So the. Now I'd gotten a glimpse at the 160th as, as a Green Beret. And let me tell you, anytime a 160th bird picks you up in SF, it's still just one of those moments like, this is special.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like it makes it because you don't always get the 160th NSF, but when you do get them, you're like, this is awesome. These guys are the best. It makes you feel special. Just, you're just in awe. You're in awe of those men that you know for a fact are the best in the world. What they do?

[A]

You bet.

[B]

Now when you go to the unit, it's a little bit different because just the mentality is, yes, that's who I expect. That's who I expect to fly me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you remember the first time you went to the unit to or to work with, with Delta Force guys and you're like, you know, is that, is that a little bit of a I made it moment? Like I'm actually here with the Delta Force?

[A]

Oh, yes, sir.

[B]

Is it?

[A]

Yeah, I remember it like it was last week. I do. That's awesome. Because being the new guy and we had a gun smoke with C Squadron.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And you know, at that time C was in Mogadishu, so.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Man, they held the age is in very high regard because those boys, they, they flew and flew and flew, you know, to cover them and shoot for them. And so that was kind of cool. And then, you know, we have to do the range brief and go over call for fire stuff. You know, God bless the guys because they're like, we heard. It's like, yeah, just shut up, let's go shoot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. But yeah, you land at that compound, you're like, wow, man, I'm, you know, we work our tails off our whole life just to be mediocre. And I mean, I looked, I walked among giants. I did. I'd ask myself all the time, man, how did I get here? How did I stay? I loved my job and I love the guys that I, that I worked with.

[B]

You know, what's always funny is guys like you will say things like that I worked among giants, Yeah, I worked with the best. But no one, no one ever claims to be the giant because the next guy will say, I worked with giants. And I think it's just a testament to. Don't get me wrong, if I, if I pressed you, you'd say, well, yeah, I, I personally was, was one of the best in the world at, at my job. I'd have to, I'd have to press you, you know, really about that or humble. But you'd be really quick to say the 1/60, the unit I was in, the we, you'll say you, we were the best in the world, bar none. Not even close at what we do. And it's just, it's a testament to the type of man that you would kind of think that it's. Even though we're a type personalities, and I think other times a type personalities can be a little bit boastful. They can be a little bit. There's some people think of us as prima donnas.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Whatever you think of, of, of what that type of person is, it's not because they are the best in the world at what they do. And somehow we've found a way to also recruit or culturally be sure everyone stays fairly humble.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

That's really unique. That's what it is.

[A]

Very much.

[B]

It doesn't happen, it rarely happens in sports. It really, really happens in, in any other venue. But the top, top, the very top

[A]

tip of the spear.

[B]

Tip of the spear. Special operations. You have the best in the world that will only refer to the team as the best in the world.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

I think it's really cool.

[A]

Yeah. And that on that trip, I wanted to say, I was trying to remember, I was talking to John Horgan, Bob's twin brother. He's a knife maker too, but they were both rangers, but I, I think it was Bob. After I finished my brief. Any questions? You know, they're like, no, let's go. And there was a, there was a car. It was probably, I don't know, 30 meters in front of the start fire line op.12. Okay. And he goes, hey, I bet you can't put a rocket even close to that car. And I looked at him, I said, I'll put a rocket up a Black Angus's bull's ass if that's where you want it. And bad. They just, they're like, okay, he's in, he's, he's. They were like, where are you from, you goofy talking, Blah, blah, blah, Texas, you know. But anyway, so we, we Got in cranked up. I don't remember who I was flying with, but you know, I was a new guy and we were in lead and call for fire was car danger close. You know, the guy looked at, he said, don't screw this. And I put, and I put that rocket right in the hood of that car, man. That thing went, I don't know. Did 15 foot air.

[B]

After saying that you got to hit it, yo.

[A]

Like this is where I make it or break it with, you know, the best in the world. So don't mess it up.

[B]

Although, you know, people are just going to say we just talked about how humble you were. This guy just said he, he, you know, I'll put this, this lady where you want up, up accounts. But which is completely different. Which is most guys you'll meet. If you didn't know any better, you, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know.

[A]

Right?

[B]

But when it's closed off and, and, and it's just us, you're gonna have some of the best trash talking.

[A]

Oh yes.

[B]

And it's hilarious.

[A]

It's hilarious, right? It's hilarious. Have you ever. George did a book of cartoons. George Hand. Have you ever seen it?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, it's hilarious. All the faux paws at the. Oh, it's just. Yeah, it's fun.

[B]

So. And, and we still do that. So when you get back from a training event and every training event, something goes wrong, someone says something stupid. There's always something to laugh at.

[A]

Then comes the debris and there's.

[B]

There's a cartoon book of, of, of historically in a cartoon way annotating that and it's. And that. And after. Whether you were there or not, just being in that job long enough, you, you understand.

[A]

Heard the story.

[B]

You either heard the story or you know why that's funny and you're like, oh my gosh, I can't. That's hilarious.

[A]

Yeah, it's hilarious. Yeah.

[B]

When you guys ended up going to the G wat and you just said hey, this is going to be a logistical nightmare for what we're set up to be. And when I, when I interview tier one guys, the who ended up doing amazing things. Something I think I knew I just didn't know to the extent is at the beginning, the very beginning of of the gwat wasn't was difficult for tier one because we. We didn't. We. We go after targets we, we didn't. No one, no one knew enough say hey, here's a target. So Odas were having. I mean that was, that was the place to Be at the beginning.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They were there with a partner force, just getting it on.

[A]

Fifth group is up north just having a ball.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I knew a lot of those of their life. Tony Pryor, Don Alexander, and at least

[B]

on the assaulter side, of course, you guys supported them too, at. At the beginning of the war, which is something again, I'm jealous about. We'll get to that here in a second. Because we have to wait our turn. You know, sometimes for. For a big mission or, you know, right place, right time, sometimes that's a big one. But not you guys. You guys are always a part of everything.

[A]

There's no question, man.

[B]

But yeah, you're the. You're the only game in town when it comes to. To transporting America's finest.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But I digress that. We'll get to that. But there's a. There was a lot of tier one assaulters just waiting. Waiting on the word go. And. But there were also some really cool stories that you guys did at the beginning of the G. W.A.T. and it was. It's been talked about. It was in the book. Relentless strike.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But, yeah, you guys just putting little birds in the back of C130s land in the middle of nowhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Taken off hitting your own targets.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

That's.

[A]

There was no ROE Just crazy. I mean, crazy stuff, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, go shoot everything. How's that?

[B]

I mean, there's even me. I don't. I don't always know exactly what's. What's true and what's. Has turned into a fish story.

[A]

But embellishment.

[B]

Embellishment, if you will.

[A]

I've been accused of that.

[B]

The guys go in Winchester on those missions. And then just like, you know what? I still got my rifle up here. I'm gonna take a few more rounds and just. Just go to my. Go to my pistol or my rifle and, you know, and. And still get some.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

But something tells you those. Even though I question, because I don't really know. Isn't there? But I hear that. I'm like, yeah, I can see them doing that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can see those boys doing that. Because they've done it before. They've done before. They. They will have. Do that same thing later on.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Protecting the boys.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

And even dropping grenades.

[A]

Yeah. Well, General Cody saw it on the big screen because we had an asset overhead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was in the talk. He goes. Or somebody said, what are those flashes? And one of the Delta sergeant majors said, oh, those are grenades. They said, gerald Cody almost Lost his mind and the story is in the book. But yeah, the sergeant Major says, ah, it's B Company, sir. They just want to kill some. They're Winchester, Right?

[B]

Well, you never fully Winchester as long as you got until all your grenades are gone.

[A]

We got grenades.

[B]

Turns into a bombing mission.

[A]

Yes, sir. Yeah, actually one of the, one of the Delta, I think he's a breacher. He came over the net one night and says, hey, he'd done the math. He said, go to 648ft, that'll give you a five foot air burst or something like that. You know, we're like, okay, let's try it.

[B]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[A]

It was funny.

[B]

I love it. The. How did you. I want to say enjoy, but, But I will because you're, you're a little bit crazy. Yeah, in a good way. How did you enjoy the, the beginning rotations of Afghanistan?

[A]

Well, you know, we spent eight years training day after day after day. You know, it's like a professional football player. He goes to practice every day. Well, then gets to play the game, I guess, is my analogy.

[B]

Yeah, it's a great analogy.

[A]

And I mean, yeah, we were excited. I was excited. I was extremely excited because I wanted to put that training to the test. I wanted to put Greg Coker to the test. Right. And you know, God put me here. It says in Psalm, when we're being knitted in our mother's womb, our path is already laid out, it's done, and we're just following orders the rest of our lives. But yeah, I was, I was excited, man. I wanted to go get some. Everybody was pretty angry at that time. B Squadron was. They, they went Forward and then 375Rangers. So yeah, I was, I was scared to death. Any man says he isn't a liar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what John Wayne say about courage. Courage is being scared to death, but sadly enough anyway.

[B]

That's right. Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah, it was, I was prepared. I was, I had, you know, I was confident in the guys I flew with and my duties and I spent the very first part on an AC130 setting the conditions for the assault on 19 October for gecko and Rhino. So that was, that was my mission. Every other night would go up and we'd shoot till we were Winchester. Every night.

[B]

Yeah. In fact, I mean it was, it was a. I don't know if it, it had to be taken. But that, that mission, Gecko, which I ended up being, spending some time there as, as a firebase.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Which is really weird. Later on Learning at the unit that was one of the units, if not the one of the unit's first targets.

[A]

First target.

[B]

It was their first target.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

And what a, what a. I don't know, weird foreshadowing that I'm at a place that'd be my future job was their first hit in Afghanistan. But it ended up being a dry hole and a little bit of a know nothing mission to some. You don't know that until you go.

[A]

Yeah, you don't.

[B]

But the logistics of that mission was a, was a tier one mission.

[A]

It was crazy, man. This is the longest air assault in history. It's over a thousand miles off the ship.

[B]

Is that what did launch off of a ship? I didn't remember if it was K2 or, or. Yeah, I do remember the, the guys that were on that talk about how most of their legs didn't work. Time to get off the birds. Or about the five minutes out they start, they start wrestling, you know, trying to move and get up and they realized my legs are asleep. Yeah, my legs are asleep. And trying to, tried to get as much of that worked out before. Before the, before they had to do a dead sprint when the, when the helos hit the ground.

[A]

A 12 hour ride. I believe if I remember correctly, just,

[B]

just, just an insane mission that really only, only you guys could, could conduct.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

12 hour mission. You think you still hit it? Plus. Plus or minus 30 seconds?

[A]

They were dead on zero. Zero. I was right overhead. I was the one that told him, hey, you're cleared in. Yeah, we cleared the route up. I actually put the route, got the route for him and yeah, I said, hey, you're, you're green.

[B]

Yeah. Do you, do you think there's anything unique about the Afghanistan experience that, that pushed the 1 60th to become better? Because now you're doing it for real and you're getting reps in unlike, unlike other. We'll call them random high value targets that sometimes happen around the world. That's, that's a one and done, you know, and it's a great indicator of how good you are because your, your cold bore shot is how good you are.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

But it's not a great job to. It's not a good indication or not a good way to refine your skills. And now we get to really see who we are and see how much better we can get.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

What do you, what do you think Afghanistan did for the 160?

[A]

The terrain was our worst enemy and altitude, you know, figuring out, you know, These machines are limited or could be Limited by 12, 14,000 foot mountains and then the desert, you know, on the south end. Operating in that environment. I mean, I tell guys all the time, the most dangerous thing you're going to do is take off and land. And most nights that it was, it was, I think, you know, those, those were the only guys that could do it successfully and safely. And they did it night after night after night. We got better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, one night I looked over and he landed and I kept looking and he was about 10 foot in the air. Oh my gosh, man. Just put it down, you know. Yeah. I didn't do that again. Yeah, but trial and error. Yeah, absolutely. It made us better. Every mission for the ground force, every mission, we would learn new things, new tactics, new ways to do things. You bet. If we didn't, it could cost us a life or get a guy injured or get an aircraft hurt.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's weird until I, it's really, until I, I interview you. I, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't think. No one does really step back and think about other people's jobs a whole lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if, if I do something wrong, wildly wrong on target, more than likely I'll cost myself my own life or I'll, I'll pay the price for that. Worst case scenario. My teammate praised the price, which is still horrible.

[A]

That's horrible.

[B]

But if you guys do something wrong, you're, you're responsible for you, your crew and everybody in the back who has no control over. Over what, what happens. Yeah, like it's, it's just, it's got away heavily.

[A]

It does. We had a mishap one night, an MH6. I don't know if you'd heard the story. They came back to the dls and gotten Brown out and rolled the helicopter over and hurt a couple of guys pretty bad. Luckily nobody was killed. But price of doing business in austere environments, it is.

[B]

Which goes back to what we talked about earlier. You have to train dangerously.

[A]

Yes, you do. Because right out to the edge. Yeah.

[B]

You really do. When Iraq kicked off, I mean, you guys are only in Afghanistan for a few years and if you're already having to weigh. We have to support six. We have to support, you know, cag, we have to support the Rangers when SF really needs us, and for particular missions, we have to support those guys as well. And now we've decided to split her in one country. That's a, that's that's enough to. To ask of you guys.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Now, the country says, hey, we're gonna. We're gonna split these in two, but we can't split. But we only have.

[A]

We only have so many.

[B]

That's right. Yeah. Yeah, We. There's only one of you. We can. We can Split our tier one. It's units in two. We can put CAG over here. We can put ST6 over over there. Like I said, there's. There's only one of you guys. How. I don't. I don't. I don't know. I don't know how you guys did it, but when we started looking towards Iraq, what was. What was the feeling of. Of a whole new. A whole new front that you had to concern yourself with and a whole new environment?

[A]

Yes, sir. Yeah. And I mean, we. Well, first of all, we set the conditions from conducting months and months of training, you know, here. Here at home to prepare. We knew we were going when we were going, so that I think that helped the whole force quite a bit. And I mean, we probably close to five months out west and nonstop and we were prepared for the OIF or the Iraq mission. And, you know, we already had pre designated targets and the ahs. We went out first. We went two days before the whole force did. We went out on 19-3-03, and for two, two consecutive nights. Hit. Hit, pre planned targets. Yeah. Eight ah is total. Four teams to set the conditions for the Air Force that was coming, the ground force that was coming, and then C Squadron went with us. So they went over the berm same night. Yeah, I bet Chili. Who would fire the first shots that night? I was like, dude, I'm in a helicopter, knucklehead. I won.

[B]

Yeah. I can't believe we haven't had Chili Palmer on. On the show yet. He's a good friend of mine. I love Chili. He's a good dude.

[A]

Mijo Chili. All the old crew. Yeah.

[B]

Was there. Was there some sort of internal fight for guys because someone had to stay back and, and take care of Afghanistan and someone had to go to the new shiny target. Was. Was everyone eager to. To. To chase the, the Iraq invasion?

[A]

Everybody? Yeah, that's who we are. I mean, that's. Yeah, it was tough and yeah, but we, you know, they got it and we always have to maintain somebody at home for whatever reason. And. But yeah, the, the commander, he chose a cruise and everybody had to be good with it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So everybody was going to get their turn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I, I would tell guys, hey, Be careful what you wish for. And that was in the very early days, you know. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So flying wise, I can, I can tell you assaulting wise and as a military and as an assaulter, we were much better equipped and ready for the Iraq mission. It was a very urban mission. You know, we've had, we've hit urban mount sites for years, years and years and years and years. And that's, and that's really what it was. Was that the same on the aviation side? Do you feel like you guys were more prepared?

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

For Iraq?

[A]

And yes, absolutely.

[B]

It also here's, here's a double edged sword of Iraq and I'm thinking more through an aviation aspect. The targets themselves are better defined. The terrain is pretty much the same, but where you're very vulnerable as an aviation platform in an urban environment, to me an urban is better. It's a known we are set up to fight in this, but for you guys I feel like it's a little bit more risky because your threats are

[A]

everywhere and could be anywhere plus the environment. So the winds, winds play a big factor in little birds. So you always have to be aware of. Situational awareness is very critical and you know, especially if you're going to get a call for fire. So setting up for the shot where friendlies are and a lot of people don't realize in B company for the, for the gun guys, we have to know the ground scheme maneuver better than the ground force because we can't pull a trigger until we, we account for everybody down there. We have to.

[B]

Yeah, I don't, I don't make sure that the, the listeners understand that is that you're, you're there to save us. If we're calling you in, it's we, we need help. We need the help. And it's, if I have to get close enough to them to kill them, it really means they're close enough to me to kill me as well. And that's just, that's just the agreement that, that you've decided you're okay with.

[A]

You're okay.

[B]

And, and you're hoping that you're, you're better trained. Not hoping you've, you've proven that that's right. That you're faster and better than that person. But they still get a vote.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The good news about, you know, wanting an aviation asset to come in and help take care of this is you can at least have some sort of standoff and, and make it more of an unfair fight now. They have to. And plus they're Looking. Their attention is diverted to two different places. We're swaying everything in. In our favor.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

But for you to do that, like you said, you have to know where we are. We have to do a good job of explaining where the enemy is. Words are the. I don't think people understand. Words are the worst form of communication.

[A]

They are the worst. And the slowest.

[B]

And the slowest.

[A]

And the slowest.

[B]

Right. And. And the responsibility that you guys carry and weigh is if you don't know exactly what's going on. And we can have this plan. This is where we're supposed to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we can move to changes and we can move pretty fast, you know, and you could come in with all good intentions to help out and end up with disastrous effects because there's no such thing. Oh, there's no such thing as friendly fire.

[A]

No, it's.

[B]

And, and nothing's more accurate than, Than American fire.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So it's, it's very.

[A]

Once you launch that bullet, there's no back.

[B]

They don't bring it back.

[A]

You got to be 100% that that is in fact the target that they want serviced.

[B]

Do you think that's something we got better at as. As well? And probably from coaching, from you guys saying, hey, this is what, this is what you're saying, but this is what we need.

[A]

Yes, yes. Yeah. The flash to bang. I would say that time got cut in half in the first six, eight months in Iraq. I mean, you guys really got good at. And again, you know, you, you said it. Words are the worst thing. I have your position, I have your location. Just mark the target. Right.

[B]

Give me a visual.

[A]

I'll do the pilot stuff. I'd tease them all the time. I was like, hey, Miho, you want to come over and fly this thing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But yeah, it was. Yeah, everybody got better. Yeah, we had to.

[B]

Well, there's. There's one more. I'm going to throw in the mix on you. We just talked about supporting the Rangers, supporting six, supporting us, but that wasn't all. That wasn't everyone. You supported you. You supported other people as well. Who I just talk about, just asking a lot again from one of the smallest units. Who else did you guys support?

[A]

Some foreign countries.

[B]

Right. And now. And they're great. And they're great men.

[A]

Yes. But operators, great opera.

[B]

Oh, they're the best. Some of the, the, We've had them on our show before. You know, the, the, the sas, the two, two ses, they're just, they're, they're the best.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But here's, here's a tough question that we talked about a little bit earlier, but again, there's some things I think about now that I'm kind of looking at through your eyes. I always knew you guys supported them, and I was like, you know, I gave it, I didn't give it a second thought. But when we're asking you to do something very dangerous, when you're doing it for fellow Americans in the back of your bird, it's a, it's an easy call.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

And this is nothing. It's not personal. It's, it's, it's nothing like that. But at some point, when they're asking you to do something very dangerous, even though they're friendlies, but for, for foreigners,

[A]

they're asking me to hang it out for them.

[B]

Yeah. Do you ever, do you ever, to some degree, it's just, just a fleeting moment, be like, you know what? Bring your own helicopters. If, if you want to request this support, then you need to bring this support. I know that.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

Some people may seem like, well, that's a bad attitude to have.

[A]

Selfish.

[B]

Well, then that's. Well, then you go fly them.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, sure.

[B]

Well, yeah, I'm, I'm not saying that was a overarching, you know, feeling of it. I'm just saying as a, as, as a thought in your mind, something you had to deal with to some degree.

[A]

You bet. Yeah. I had. It did.

[B]

But never stop.

[A]

They're doing mission. We're gonna do the mission.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I know you need us or they wouldn't ask.

[B]

Right. And it wasn't just them. I don't. And we, we work with a lot of other tier one units. And you'd be the one who, who, who else brings their own aviation assets or do we.

[A]

Brits. They kind of sort of have to insert with. Pardon?

[B]

To insert with.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

As insertion platforms.

[A]

Yeah. Pumas and Lynx, I, I did know they have those.

[B]

I just, I just never saw them use it. Which doesn't mean that they never used it. Right. By any means. But something going on a limb here. They prefer to use you guys.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, they try sometimes. We could support them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, if Green was doing a gaff or a ground assault and, you know, through vehicles and they needed some air assets. Yeah. We'd get sliced to them, help out the mates, not be a wanker.

[B]

They're also some of the funniest guys. Funny, funny guys. I'd, I'd, I'd put. I'd Put my. My life on the line and hanging out with those guys just because of how funny they are.

[A]

Yeah, they are. And the sergeant Major would always. Everybody would get to Guinness for the debrief. Really? Oh, yes, sir.

[B]

Love that. Love that, love that culture. Yeah, I think.

[A]

Yeah. Or be like, it's time for tea, mate. I'm like, sir, there's a major gunfight going on. It'll be here when we return. Okay.

[B]

They. They are. There's. There's one of the. What do they say? There's. It's. It's a stereotype, but it's a stereotype for a reason. You know, as well. They don't completely break that.

[A]

Very proper.

[B]

Yeah, very proper. You got shot down in Iraq, didn't you?

[A]

I did.

[B]

Why'd you do that?

[A]

I did. Guy shot me in the back. And it was daytime, so we're night stalkers, not day stalkers. It was. It was one of those times they. They needed help, so we went to go help them.

[B]

Was that. And it was in Fallujah. Correct.

[A]

South of Fallujah.

[B]

Fallujah.

[A]

Maria.

[B]

It's one thing to. It's almost a double negative, right?

[A]

Yes, that. Yes.

[B]

That area is already a tough area. Now you're gonna add daytime, you know, on. On. On top of it.

[A]

Yes, sir. That was an 04. And there had already been. So from. From Ramadi to the west, go east to Fallujah, then south to Ameria, that triangle we called the Devil's Triangle. There'd been seven aircraft shot down in that triangle. No survivors. I mean, Marine, Army. Yeah, they. I had a theory about it, that it was somebody that didn't like us, and they were using highly advanced systems that no other country had. SA 16s. Yeah. So they had sevens and a few 14s. But, you know, with that system, the battery is the key to that serviced air weapon. So. Okay, yeah, I got popped. I didn't crash. I got shot down. Doggone.

[B]

It was clearly a difference. Yeah, the aviation world, clearly the difference. The. Did you. Did you see it coming?

[A]

No.

[B]

You just got hit and had to figure it out. I mean, obviously you figured it out real quick.

[A]

Very quickly.

[B]

Yeah, very quickly. What?

[A]

Yeah, they had. They had completed the mission. Troop commander had called and said, hey, we're getting out of here. And of course we're. Oh, okay, Come on, let's go. Let's get out of here. And it's a little after one in the afternoon, and they had. They had three gun trucks and then two pandas.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

In the. On the Recce guys, and, and I had, I'd swooped them, so I'd just done a really low pass. I was in a climbing right hand turn and boom. It's an IR seeker. So it seeks the heat from the engine for this system. Shoulder launched, shoulder fired. And two of the guys actually saw the shot. It came from this two story building right at the edge of the western edge of Amarillo. And one of them said, because we study those weapon systems, so those missile systems, they leave a smoke trail and one will be like an SA7's a really dark gray smoke with a big corkscrew. You know, SA16 is real tight corkscrew and then really light colored smoke, you know, so you can kind of get close to what it was. And one of the guys, he said, hey Greg, I'm pretty sure it was a 16. I said, wow. Okay. So, yeah.

[B]

Do you remember being almost shook or alarmed at how violent it was or

[A]

surprised at how, you know what, it surprised me. It was extremely violent.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm not embellishing this one bit. It shook the whole aircraft. The explosion was the first thing. Of course, it, I didn't see it coming. And, and then all the bells and whistles go off for, you know, engine out, engine oil pressure low on and on and on. But yeah, that, that missile system and it had a, they have a prox fuse, a proximity fuse, so when it gets a certain distance, it explodes. So all those fragments are carried through the aircraft, the engine. So it hit the engine. There's actually one of the rangers threw his camera up and has a, took a picture of it. Me in the air on fire. And I was like, I was like, bro, why weren't you suppressing the target instead of taking pictures of my knucklehead?

[B]

I bet you like that picture now though, don't you?

[A]

Yeah, we laugh about. We're very close friends now. Oh, me and Jeremy.

[B]

But the, the helo stayed together. Boom. Intact.

[A]

Yeah. I went to work and I'm an instructor pilot, so I entered an auto rotation.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then helicopter. That's what we do. We move the controls, the rotor continues to spin and it's just like a power off landing at the bottom. You got to maneuver it, you know, a certain height, you do a decel to bleed your airspeed off. And I didn't know the condition of the ground whatsoever. It was just, you know, it was just dirt. It was out in the middle of the desert. And you know, helicopter pilots, we use vertical, you know, telephone poles or a building or Something to kind of give us an idea of how high we are off the ground.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And we have a radar altimeter in the little bird. So I kept glancing at it, make sure everything's where it needs to be in conducting that auto rotation. And landed. Landed fine. Slid about 35, 40 meters, went down a bit of a slope and the skid stuck in the dirt and end over end we went. And yeah, I just, I relive it all the time. And I came to and I heard this popping, you know, I was like. And I could hear. I remember hearing the 50. So the boys, they were engaging that building where the shot came from. And yeah, I heard this popping, popping, popping. And I'm like, what in the world? And then I was like, oh my gosh, that's ammo cooking off. I was like, that fire is close because you know where our ammo can. Yeah, it's right behind us. And I had rockets on board and I thought about, you know, those. What are they going to do when they catch where they go explode or. They didn't do anything, actually, they just burn up and listen to that ammo cook off. And looked over at my co pilot. I put my hand on his shoulder and we were inverted. We came to rest upside down and he had blood all over his face. So now I'm thinking, oh, did he get hit? And the little bird historically was bad about the shoulder harness not locking in a crash sequence. So the pilot would hit the cyclical with a space. And that's the first thing I thought of. I said, oh, man, he hit the, you know, he hit, hit the cyclic. That wasn't the case, but so I told him, I says, hey, I'm going to go over here because you don't want to get in front of a gun bird because you don't know if a rocket will go off, right? The minigun might go off or whatever. So we always meet at the 3 o' clock or the 9 o' clock position. But I pointed because we were both, you know, it knocked us both out. I was knocked out. And my, you know, first thing I thought of was, okay, I'm going to get my rifle, get out, assess. And I could hear the gunfire. They were still shooting. The other, ah, came over and he started to shoot. And I kind of did a 360 just to secure, you know, our position. Because first thing I thought of again was Black Hawk down.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, here's a little bird, daytime on fire here, 300 meters from this hornet nets. We just stirred up. Yeah, so then I've looked and I didn't see my co pilot. And I was like, crap. I mean, this helicopter, it's burning now. And so I kind of waddled over there, told him, you got to get out, get out, get out. Kind of turned around, focused to the east where the ville was and looked still nobody. So I waddled back over there and, I mean, his arm was like this, and the fire was kind of rolling up to his arm. So I just reached up, pulled his buckle, and he came down. I just grabbed him, pulled him out, over on top of me, and we crawled out of it.

[B]

So do you know what was causing the bleeding on his face?

[A]

Yeah, he bit through his tongue. No. Oh, that's through his tongue. Dog gone. Bless his heart, because I assessed him, you know, pretty closely once we got settled and he put him in a prone. I got on a knee and just facing towards friendlies. And I told him, I said, hey, if you see somebody or see something, let, Let me know because we're both kind of jacked up right now and right. I don't want to. We'll put two eyes on it, two guns, you know, prepare for whatever may come.

[B]

But how long it take for the

[A]

operators, I have no idea. I have no earthly blur. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a blur. And it. And then I. So I was looking over him and I said, okay. I said, let me see your teeth. And, you know, he kind of did that. And I said, well, your grinners look good. I said, stick out your tongue. He did. I was like, oh. I said, okay, you're fine, you know, you'll be okay. Oh, Lord. And. Yeah. And then we heard a truck. And then I saw a ball cap kind of bouncing. He was running. It was Chaz. And he stopped and looked at us, and he took off running again. We stood up and he threw his arms around us. He's like, man, I thought you were dead. Gravy. We ain't dead.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

He was like, what do you want to do? I said, I want to find that son of a gun. I want to kill him. Yeah. He's like, get in the truck. I said, okay. So then was, I don't know, five, six hour gunfight after that.

[B]

Yeah. They end up dropping on that building. Do you know, they just.

[A]

I don't, you know, I don't know. I don't think so.

[B]

What about your bird? They end up dropping on the bird. What? You know, what do they do with that?

[A]

So it completely. I got pictures of it. I mean, they Put it in a box finally. But they had called the 82nd and they came. They. We went back to it. That's right. We went back to it because I wanted to ensure that there weren't any sensitive items. KY or nvg, whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There was nothing. It was just a big pile of melted metal. And. And they. Couple guys took pictures. I actually drew a sketch. They told me. I didn't remember that of, you know, if they wanted to investigate it or whatever the case. And. But yeah, that was. Yeah, that was about it. And the 82nd got on board and they. They just pile it up in a. In the back of a. Like a deuce. Deuce and a half, I think.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they brought back to the States and did forensics on it to. There was a certain agency that wanted to confirm or deny because we were the only survivors of. We were the eighth, I think the eighth helo shot down in that triangle. And sure enough, they found a little piece of metal that said it was an SA16. And then we were the last. So there weren't any more. Wow. Engagements of that. That weapon system. Thank God. So leave it to gravy. Goodness. Oh, another day at the office. Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's always. Yeah, it's always a possibility. You know, it's. It just, It's a reminder. And I just can tell you from personal experience, you do a dangerous job for a really long time, and at some point, not completely, but at some point you stop. I don't know if I want to say you stop respecting the danger or you or it. It's something in that, you know, in and around that category. I don't know exactly what it is, but you start playing a little fast and loose.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

And that's a dangerous place to be.

[A]

It is. And I, I mean, I think.

[B]

Doesn't mean that you were doing anything wrong, you know, per se. That's not, that's not what I mean by that.

[A]

I think we felt immortal.

[B]

You.

[A]

Because, I mean, up until, oh, four, we hadn't had any incidents.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We'd always been on the winning side.

[B]

Right, Exactly.

[A]

On and on and on.

[B]

And, you know, I mean, stop respecting the. The. The danger.

[A]

Yes. Almost just like, not quite complacent, but yeah. I don't know. I'm immortal.

[B]

Yeah. They're a little bulletproof. Right. We're. We're that good. We. We always win. We're used to winning. Yes, I know. It's not that you don't think it's dangerous anymore, you know, it's dangerous. And again, you just don't think it's going to happen to you.

[A]

No, don't. And I hate daytime. I mean, I'd rather fly. Night vision. It's just. And I. Even before then, I didn't like flying during the day. It's just too much input, you know, to our brains. And I shoot better at night. During the day, it's different.

[B]

Those. Those little birds at night are just shadows or just. There's death waiting in the dark.

[A]

Waits in the dark. Then you wait for the fur ball. You know, we call it when we get to shooting at a target, you know, we're just. Just.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy, but you would think, you know, speaking of Iraq, there's Afghanistan had its own dangerous parts about it because of the terrain. You guys may not have thought about it like this, but I love it. There are some things we do look as assaulters, and it makes us nervous. And I don't know if it makes you guys nervous because, you know, you guys have done it so many times.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

You put a little bird in an alley, and there's about 6 inches of clearance on each side of those rotor blades.

[A]

I know exactly what you're saying.

[B]

And we go, yeah, he's. He's good. I hope he's good. Does he know how close this is? It's gonna fit, right?

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

Oh, it fits. And he. And you put it in. You slam it on the ground. Those skids compress. We jump off, you guys take off like. Like it was nothing.

[A]

We'll be back.

[B]

And we don't. We don't think about it again until the end of the mission.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it'll get brought up internally in the mission. Did you see where that guy put it and how little space he had on that thing? Do you guys worry about that as much as we do when we're looking at it going, I don't know if there's enough space there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that. Is that a shared. Or you guys just like. No, I got it.

[A]

I can recall several. You know, we're. We're overhead watching the mhs coming in, and I'm thinking to myself, he is not gonna land right. There is no. Here they come. And I'm like, oh, my gosh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't. There's just. There's just not a lot of, you know, 1/60 guys that. That I. Anyone really gets to interview. And it's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. It's awesome. Every. Everybody knows who the 1/60th is.

[A]

They do now.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

It's. But it. It really is. I don't know if I'll be able to do it justice. Until you witness it. It's almost. We already said words is one of the hardest things. Worst forms of communication. Yep. It is really hard to relay to everyone listening how amazing the pilots are at the 160th.

[A]

They're the best.

[B]

Until you witness it. Until you see them land and take off in a matter of seconds. And exactly the. The part of a map. You told them to land until you see them building. Until. Until you see them lip land and at that speed. I've. I've lip landed with other units and they will take their sweet time lining that up. Not the 1 60th.

[A]

Yeah. Just.

[B]

They'll just put it right there on the skid, hover, not move the whole time. Or you have two and three hundred pound men.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

On onloading and messing with the weight transfer. You wouldn't know it by the birds. I just. There's so many different ways I could try to explain it, but like I said in the day and yeah. Until you're in the back of that bird and you witness it happening, you have to. No idea how good you guys are.

[A]

Yeah, that's. Thank you.

[B]

And we talked about it. I'm sure you couldn't have been any more proud of your boys for the. The Maduro race.

[A]

Yes. And man.

[B]

And what they did.

[A]

That was awesome. What we did.

[B]

That was a special one.

[A]

That's what we do.

[B]

And there's a medal of Honor that came out.

[A]

Night Stalker. First one. First one.

[B]

That is a. That. That part of it. 40 years when you said that, I just would have assumed there was one. Although of course, I couldn't name one. It's just when you're like, yeah, that was. That was the first Medal of Honor winner.

[A]

I was like, yes.

[B]

That's insane. With the amount of things you guys have done, to get one. Long overdue. Long overdue. And that's the problem with greatness. To some extent. You can do great things, but when your unit is expected to do those things.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It just gets looked over like, oh, they're just doing their job. But if anyone else did what you guys did, it would have been Valor Awards.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

For everyone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But because you guys did it, it's just another day at the office.

[A]

The other day at the office. Yes, sir.

[B]

And I love it and I hate it at the same time.

[A]

Yeah. Another target. You got to put the boys in safely and get them out.

[B]

Yeah. And that. That you guys did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you remember your last. The last combat mission you flew?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And did you know it was your last?

[A]

Yes, I did. Yeah. The boss said he'd already come up to me, and he said it's time to go home, Gregory. Dang. Use my full name. You know, wherever we were, kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Got first name, middle name. Oh, Lord, now you're in trouble. So. Yeah, and I was. I mean, I told the guys I'm. I'm a liability. I've had 52 surgeries, and I have, like, 48 or 49 pieces of titanium in my body, and I would come home, have a surgery or a procedure, rehab, go back, come home, have a surgery. I was just. That was just crazy. I should have never done it.

[B]

Yeah, you're a metal detector's nightmare.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I. I. You know, and I told myself that, you know, I just. I'm becoming a liability, and I don't want to be a liability.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's hard.

[A]

I was afraid I'd miss something, you know?

[B]

Of course. Of course I know. You know, one more.

[A]

One.

[B]

That's the problem. How many more missions do you want to go on? And the answer is always one more. Which means it'll never be enough. No, it'll never be enough. It's. It is. It's. It's the closest. It's the closest thing to a. To a drug that. That I could. I don't do drugs. But, yeah, that. That was my drug.

[A]

Adrenaline.

[B]

That was my drug.

[A]

Greatest drug on the planet, bro.

[B]

And. And once you get a hit of that. Once you get a hit Of. Of life and death, and once you get a hit of. Of cheating death, there nothing will replace it.

[A]

Nothing.

[B]

There's nothing I will ever do again in my life that will. Roller coasters are boring to me, you know, just nothing. The closest thing to it was dumping my life savings into a business and hoping I don't lose it all. Like, that's. That was an adrenaline rush, but scared to death, but not the same. It was. It was as close as. As. As it'll get.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah, when you're in that bump, you know, going up to the top, pushing over and like, okay, there it is. Lifting the COVID on that trigger, and.

[B]

But because of what you did and the way you went about it, taking it. Not taking no for an answer, forcing your way into it, but also preparing to, like, thanks for giving me the chance, but I'll prove that it was that I was worth betting on with hard work and dedication and preparation.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

You get to live the rest of your life no one knowing who you. Knowing who you are. And that's irreplaceable. Yes, irreplaceable as the older you get that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They can never take away from you.

[A]

No. And the men we serve with, you know, those friendships are. Those are lifelong lifetime friendships that you'll never forget.

[B]

On. On your last mission. Do you think maybe for the first time, one of the few times you think you finally did a good job of trying to take it all in and.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And realize what. What it is the. The movie you've been living this whole time and took for granted?

[A]

Yes. Yes, I did.

[B]

Do you have any regrets?

[A]

Mmm. I've been asked this before. My children, missing them growing up. That's the only one. Yes, sir. Kind of cheated them.

[B]

That's up. Dang it, Greg. You got me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I know the answer.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I hate it, because you can. You can hate that part all you

[A]

want,

[B]

but there's nothing you could do about it because you. You can't. It's one of the. You can't have both. You know, it's. It's one thing when. When one person looks back at, you know, at their kids and their kids lifetime, and they go, well, I. I could have spent more time with my kids, and I wish I would have, but that really wasn't. That really wasn't truly a choice for you. I mean, sure, you could have. You could have got out, but that's not. Yeah, but that's. That's. No one wins.

[A]

Nobody.

[B]

Who's going to protect the boys? Who's gonna. Who's gonna do the job?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That you can do. Yes, sir, but who's going to be your dad's. Who's going to be your kid's dad? And it's just the most unfair situation to be in.

[A]

Yeah. And time. We can't get it back. That's gone. But, yeah, good Lord, put me here and put me in those places and. Yeah, now we live each day to its fullest. You bet.

[B]

I don't think it makes you feel any better because they're only kids once.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't get that back.

[A]

No. That's a sacrifice, though, of who we are and what we do. Yeah, it is.

[B]

You know, it's. It's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's erotic. That's. That's what you. You. I. I say this a little loosely, but you complain about the the surgeries and the physical aspect of it. But when I asked you what your regret was, it wasn't anything. It wasn't anything physical. It was. It was the. The kids aspect to it.

[A]

It was. Yeah, but, you know, I dedicated the book to. I think. I don't remember what I wrote now, but it says, to the children of warriors, I pray that this. That this book.

[B]

Sure, we get. Get it right.

[A]

Dedicated to the children of warriors. I pray this story will shed some light on the absence of your father. Yes, sir.

[B]

Well, I guess the silver lining is the boys don't need protecting anymore. You did that, but you can still be a father for the rest of your life. Yes, you missed one aspect of it, but it does. Does it mean that. That you completely missed that boat?

[A]

No. God bless me. We have 14 grandchildren,

[B]

I think Snickers

[A]

and Mountain Dew for everybody. Then you're going home. Something.

[B]

Something tells me, God, see the sacrifice you made, said, you know what, he may have missed someone's childhood, but I'm gonna give him 14 childhoods to look after to make up for it. And. And I don't. And I'm serious when I say that. God.

[A]

Yeah. I never thought of it that way. Brian.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah.

[B]

You're welcome.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, great. Talk about the. The book for. For a little bit. Where. Where could they get the book for?

[A]

Well, I don't have any more book books, but it is available on Audible and then Kindle.

[B]

I love that. Yeah. Yeah, we have. On our Patreon. We have a book club. Yes. Most of my books I listen to on the Road, and the only time I get the hardback is after I listen to it, I go, I really like that book. And I just want the hard copy to remind me of it, I suppose. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. So I think that's how most books get consumed these days.

[A]

It is. It's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I did a lot of research and. And it was cool. And all I did. I did a thousand hardbacks when they first came out, and the first 500 you got an. The book was numbered, and then I had coins made. The coin was numbered for that book and then some other swag with it, but.

[B]

And you did something unique with the. The Prophets of the Book, didn't you?

[A]

The proceeds would. Yes, sir, I. I prayed about it. And I donate 100% of the proceeds from every book sold. And to date, I think we're up to about $116,000 is what we've donated to nonprofits that support vets, first responders, and their families.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

It's cool, man.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Yeah. Some of the guys are like, are you stupid or. A little bit. Maybe a little bit. But no, that, that was, that's what was on my heart. And I love it. I can't tell you how many, you know, people over the last spend five years now, they've emails, texts, calls, letters thanking me for writing this book. Yeah, this helped moms, dads, brothers, sisters, GIs. Yeah. So it's been a blessing. We've sold over 10,000 copies.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

I love it. That's cool.

[B]

I love it. Well, hopefully I know this. You know, there's gonna be a lot of people to watch this and a lot of people love looking for the next book. And we'll put it out on our Patreon.

[A]

Yeah, thank you.

[B]

About that. And on. On Bittersweet. Unfortunately, you won't make any, any money because of it, but I don't think. But the good news is it will add it to the tally that you donate to veterans.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

You know, you also got the knife making.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Didn't you?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When did you get into that?

[A]

So I know I've got several buddies that are their world class bladesmiths, knife makers. Of course, I knew Bob very well. He's a good, good friend of mine. And his twin brother John is a master blade Smith. And then Jared Johnson, Bill Harsey, I mean, dog gone, Steve Schwarzer. But I noticed these guys, they, they kept bugging me and bugging me. They're like, hey man, you need to come do this. Come hammer some steel. And I'm like, no, I don't have time. So one day I did. Jared lives about 20 minutes away, so he's like, hey, come to the forge. We're gonna forge some, some blades. I said, okay. So went over, long story short, that first day I started and I haven't looked back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. But it. And even my wife, she said, I noticed a difference in you since you started making knives. And my neurologist that I go visit every year, he's. He's seen my tests go up over the last four years. But it gives us focus. It gives me a mission. Yeah, it's, you know, use math, use art, use all these things that goes in for me because I still do everything by hand and. Yeah. And I love it. And then at the end, man, I got this cool blade or. Yeah, whatever the case. And so I got an idea. One day I talked to my wife, Edie about it, and I says, hey, I want to start a nonprofit, and I want to bring guys in and. And show them I don't have a clue what I'm doing, but I have fun, man.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I do. I have really good teachers and mentors,

[B]

but tells me how funny. Where you go.

[A]

So, so. So I started Blades for Brothers. Okay. And three years ago, so I bring. Bring in vets, first responders, and family members. I had a gold star son come two years ago, and he spent three days with me. We have a bunkhouse there at the shop. So you come from out of town, you're welcome to stay. We'll make some knives, go shoot pigs or sit by the fire, whatever. I love it.

[B]

It's a good man skill. Whether it's woodworking, any sort of fabrication, if you can just being able to make something, to think of something, and then take your focus and energy and make something at the end, we have a mission. We have to have a mission.

[A]

We have to.

[B]

You know, if you want to switch it to me, Drew, real quick, that's

[A]

my latest prison shiv, as John Morgan calls them that.

[B]

John, that is a cool, simple. Like I said, it kind of has. It's very. Almost V22 esque, but. But on it with a modern spin to it. I love it. I absolutely love it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, Greg is last word. Is there anything else you. You want to talk about that we haven't covered?

[A]

I think we've about covered it. Oh, brother.

[B]

We covered a few things.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I do have one last question for you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's the last question I always have for everyone. And you're going to. You're going to make. I'm going to need you to make me laugh because you almost made me cry. So you owe me this one. Tell me a funny story.

[A]

Oh, funny story. Story. Oh, goodness. Well, everybody else thought this was funny, so I'll tell a story of all myself. So we had two targets one night north of Ramadi. Had 22nd SAS on one target. And then about six miles to the south, had a ranger company doing a target. And we were like, yeah, man, we can cover both of them. You know, pretty. Pretty easy. Okay. And not. Not far. And we'd all been sick with some kind of bug. Stomach bug, right? And guys were crapping in the seat, and I'm like, dude, no, man, don't know. They couldn't help it. I mean, you know, it's like, oh, man, it's too late. We have code words, okay? So you get on the radio and you say, yellow duck. That means I gotta stop and pee. Okay, okay. So brown duck means I gotta poop, right? I get word lead. I'm like, oh, dude, I can't do it anymore. Brown duck. Brown duck. Brown duck. And the other guy, I could hear him chuckling on the radio. And we have an SOP for it. You know, you land, your buddy gets over your head and watches out for you and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Man, I had to go. I mean, I just crash landed and the controls off. And I'd grab my rifle, leaned up against the rocket, a pod. My rifle's laying across my knees, you know, just like. Then I start to hear shooting. I was like, oh, man. Pinch it off. Pinch it off. Yep. Pull my pants up, jump back in. I was like, we're good to go, bro.

[B]

The old. The old combat deuce, man. The most.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Getting shot at. The most dangerous. Most dangerous. Number two you'll ever take.

[A]

Guys fly with. He was laughing so hard, man. That's crazy. Crazy. It is what it is. It is.

[B]

It's crazy not landing a helicopter in the middle of nowhere in a gunfight, like, you know, Brown duck. What are you gonna do?

[A]

Brown duck.

[B]

Yeah, no, I'm. I'm not pooping myself. I'll go face.

[A]

I'm not gonna dirty up.

[B]

Fire on the ground before I do that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

H. Greg, I love it. We got a live coming up. I can't. I can't thank you enough. I kn. I knew this was gonna be a fun episode.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And that's exactly what it was. And the funds and the. The live's going to be fun, too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So thank you so much for coming on.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

Thank you, guys.

[A]

Thanks.