Air Force CCT/Special Operations| Making the Cut with Fred Baker

Summary

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Tier1 Podcast: Air Force CCT/Special Operations | Making the Cut with Fred Baker

Host: Brent Tucker
Guest: Fred Baker (Air Force Combat Controller Veteran)
Release Date: February 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with Fred Baker, an Air Force Combat Controller (CCT) veteran. Brent Tucker explores Baker's path into special operations, the unique challenges of the Air Force CCT pipeline, and the realities—and myths—of elite service. The episode focuses on the formative influences in Baker's life, the rigor and design of CCT training, and honest insights on adapting to high-stress environments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Background & Military Upbringing

• Fred Baker’s Early Life:

  • Born in Landstuhl, Germany while his parents served in the military.
  • Father, a career Air Force special operations pilot, was set to participate in Operation Eagle Claw (Desert One) during the Iran Hostage Crisis (01:17 - 01:49).
  • Both parents supported his choices but did not pressure him into military service.
    • "Neither one of my parents pushed me to do anything. Yeah, they encouraged me to do stuff, but no, I never heard, never heard that ever." (02:41 - 02:49, Fred Baker)

• Choosing Air Force CCT:

  • Initially considered the Marine Corps, Army Rangers, and Naval Academy, with recruiters actively engaging him (03:21 - 03:36).
  • His father arranged a meeting with a Combat Control Chief Master Sergeant, giving Fred a first-hand look into CCT operations (03:36 - 03:50).

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2. Lack of Information & Value of “Ignorance”

• Early 2000s: A Different Era for Prepping

  • Limited online resources about special operations pathways compared to today.
  • Baker and Tucker reflect that “not knowing” specifics about selection was sometimes an advantage.
    • "That ignorance is kind of actually a blessing, I think, for myself." (06:11 - 06:19, Fred Baker)
    • "I 100% agree with that...I went in to almost every school or selection with what I felt like was the bare minimum. And I was fine with that...I think some people who know too much just get it in their mind this is what's going to happen, and when it doesn't, it kind of jolts them." (06:19 - 07:04, Brent Tucker)

• Modern Trainees:

  • Contrast drawn to the glut of information and sometimes misinformation now available to young candidates (04:46 - 05:46).
    • "You get inundated with information, because not all of it is true or not all of it is completely true." (05:33 - 05:49, Brent Tucker)

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3. The CCT Training Pipeline

• Entry and Structure:

  • Basic training at San Antonio, Texas, followed by a multi-phase pipeline (07:17 - 08:24):
    • Initial selection (month-long)
    • SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) School
    • Air Traffic Control School
    • Basic Airborne
    • Culminates in Combat Control School

• Progression & Special Qualifications:

  • Post-graduation, controller receives a “3-level” designation; must complete Advanced Skills Training (AST) in Florida to become fully deployable (“5-level”), which includes:
    • HALO (High Altitude Low Opening) parachuting
    • Combat Scuba/Dive School
    • Further air traffic control and airfield seizure training (09:17 - 10:15)

• Notable Pipeline Length:

  • Baker’s pipeline was nearly a full year from basic to CCT School graduation (07:51 - 08:04).

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4. Dive School Experiences

• Differences in Training Backgrounds:
  • Early exposure to running, swimming, and pool training for almost a year prior to dive school.
    • "So we show...at the end of that, like you're ready to rock." (13:16 - 13:36, Fred Baker)
  • CCTs were often much younger but physically well-conditioned compared to Army Special Forces counterparts at dive school.
    • "I felt really bad for the army folks there because yes, we were all 19-year-old idiots." (12:55 - 13:04, Fred Baker)
  • Importance of repeated, specific pre-dive training phases for CCTs before attending actual dive school (13:16 - 13:32).

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5. The Role of a CCT (Combat Controller)

• Air-Ground Integration:

  • Beyond “dropping bombs,” CCTs are responsible for all coordination between air assets and ground teams:
    • Air drops
    • Air traffic control on austere/hostile fields
    • Airfield seizures alongside units like Army Rangers
    • Surveying airfields for use (13:57 - 14:25)
    • "It's basically anything that needs that air to ground integration type thing...that's what we're getting in." (13:57 - 14:21, Fred Baker)

• Reputation for Precision Air Support:

  • Gained recognition post-Somalia for superior close air support, credited to the unique CCT skill set and their communication with pilots (14:25 - 14:39).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Value of Ignorance:

  • "All I'm gonna do is not quit...that ignorance is kind of actually a blessing, I think, for myself."
    — Fred Baker (06:11 - 06:19)

• On Parental Influence:

  • "Neither one of my parents pushed me to do anything...they encouraged me to do stuff, but no, I never heard, never heard that ever."
    — Fred Baker (02:41 - 02:49)

• Pipeline Realities:

  • "Air Force has all this, like, levels – three level...For us to deploy, we had to be five levels."
    — Fred Baker (09:50 - 10:15)

• On Youth and Physical Fitness at Dive School:

  • "We were all 19-year-old idiots."
    — Fred Baker (13:04)

• CCT Mission Focus:

  • "It's basically anything that needs that air to ground integration...that's what we're getting in."
    — Fred Baker (13:57 - 14:21)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Joining the Air Force & Family Background: 01:02 - 03:59
• Choosing Combat Control, Early Influences: 03:59 - 04:50
• Changing Face of Information & Selection: 04:46 - 06:19
• Philosophy on Preparation & Expectation: 06:19 - 07:17
• CCT Pipeline Structure & Special Qualifications: 07:17 - 10:15
• Dive School Preparation & Differences: 11:44 - 13:36
• The Role & Duties of Combat Controllers: 13:36 - 14:39

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Summary Flow and Takeaways

Brent Tucker’s conversation with Fred Baker provides listeners with an authentic, detailed look into the world of Air Force Combat Controllers—from the decision to join, through the complexities and nuances of one of the most intense training pipelines in the military, all the way to the real-world execution of air-to-ground integration missions.

The episode stands out for its candor about the advantages and disadvantages of information accessibility, the honest reflection on physical and psychological challenges, and the emphasis on adaptability rather than encyclopedic preparedness. With anecdotes, humility, and clarity, Baker dismantles some common myths and spotlights both the high standards and the everyday realities of elite special operations.

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Transcript

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[Interviewer]

Let's go all the way back to the beginning. When did you, when did you join?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

November of 2000.

[Interviewer]

And what was. Where were you from? What was your process for joining?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah, I mean I lived all over the place. My dad was military, my mom always. My mom was military as well. That's how they met.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Over in Germany. And that's where I was born over in Landstuhl. And then I just been surrounded by this community. My dad was in special operations since the beginning. Did Vietnam, Cold War. He was actually tasked to do Desert one, but that particular side of it fell out.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

I don't know if you ever seen the jet propelled C130s you ever seen.

[Interviewer]

Yes. Yeah.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

So he was, he was tasked to be one of those pilots that was going to fly into the stadium on that thing.

[Interviewer]

Really.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

But they actually have it on YouTube. One of them crashed in training. So three to get two. That third one crash. They canceled that whole thing. So.

[Interviewer]

So your dad was an Air force pilot?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yep. MC130s through Vietnam, cold War, all that stuff.

[Interviewer]

That's. So that's. So is Air Force or nothing for you or do you. Do you look at all of them or you always like. Yeah. So my dad did. I'm gonna follow his. In his footsteps.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

No. Because much like everyone else out there, I had no idea what combat control or anything that. Right. Was. I just knew from a very young age that I needed to do the military thing. I don't think it was very much like I desired it or whatever. Which I did.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

But it just felt like it was there. It's in the DNA.

[Interviewer]

Was it something that he pushed you to do about by any means. It was just, it was just neither

[Combat Controller Veteran]

one of my parents pushed me to do anything. Yeah, they encouraged me to do stuff, but no, I never heard, never heard that ever.

[Interviewer]

Right. Or how old were you signed up?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

I was 18. I was a, an older, whatever grade senior.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

So I was 18 when I signed up. And they delayed me a few months. I wanted to go right in. They delayed me after graduation till November, and so I just, yeah, went in right there and I went in straight in Combat Control. I can't remember what the, the term was for, but I had the contract and everything.

[Interviewer]

You think, did it surprise your parents at all that you were joining? Did you communicate that with them or.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah, yeah, they knew. I mean, I, all my friends were, were joining the Marine Corps, going to Naval Academy. I had army recruiter sitting in my kitchen. I'm about to sign away for going to Rangers.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

And my dad was like, why don't you take a wrap off? Let's, let's talk about this. All right. And then next thing I knew, I had a Combat control chief Master sergeant in my house talking to me about what it is they did.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

He was actually one of the guys that jumped in the Panama, Grenada. One of the Mad Jack was his name.

[Interviewer]

What that. I feel like you had, you were able to have a combat controller come talk to you before signing up. I feel like your, your dad probably had something to do with that.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So not, not everyone gets that. Again, you don't know exactly what you're getting into. But just, man, for, for him to be able to pull that string, you know, and already be in and be like, hey, I can, I can't make all your decisions for you, but I, I, I can help you.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

I mean, he, he worked with him his entire life. He's all of them were friends, et cetera. And honestly, a lot of comments are like, hey, figure out, do a lot of studying on which because, you know, should I be a seal, should be sf, you know, go online and do. There is an amount of studying that will actually get you to fully understand what you're getting into.

[Interviewer]

That's, that's, there's a lot of truth to that. There's a little in between and, and you'll, you'll understand what I'm saying here in a second. You know, when we joined in 2000, 2001, I mean, we're not so old that we didn't have the Internet, but we didn't, not all the information was at your fingertips. And Even though we had the Internet, it wasn't f. It wasn't filled with people that talk and with the information that we have today. And at the. There's no substitute for talking to someone who's done that job. But the young. The young men and women joining today have really have no reason to be uninformed.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Correct.

[Interviewer]

Although it still happens.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

You can absolutely get over.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely. You can get. You get inundated with. With information because not. Because not all of it is true or not all of is completely true. And then when you start watching all these all and gathering all this information.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like, well, well, well, which one is it?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

I think it's actually, it was beneficial for us because. Because we really didn't have any idea what we're getting into. And so there was no expectation, like, all I'm gonna do is not quit. And. But if you knew, like, well, this event, it actually ends in 24 hours. Because I saw it on Discovery Channel, this only goes 24 hours. And then at the 25th hour, you're like, this was.

[Interviewer]

When is this gonna end?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

And so, like, in your mind, you're like, you know what? Maybe I'm gonna quit because I didn't. So that ignorance is kind of actually a blessing, I think, for. For myself.

[Interviewer]

I 100 agree with that. In fact, you know, it even. It's a fine line, like dive school for. For instance, like, I wanted. I want to know about the events in dive school as far as, like, what. What are the standards? What do I. I want to be prepared before going. But I didn't ask a lot of questions about dive school and in general. And I completely agree with that. I went. I went in to almost every school or selection. What I felt like was the bare minimum. And. And I was. And I was fine with that. And for that same reason, I think some people who know too much just get it in their mind this is what's going to happen when it doesn't. It kind of. It jolts them.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah, it screws you. It works out for me because I'm extremely lazy and I hate school. I don't like studying or any of that. So going on the Internet and studying, I'm like, yeah, screw it. I'll just. I'll figure it out tomorrow when I'm 8ft underwater.

[Interviewer]

So the. You. Where'd you go to basic training at there?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

It's in San Antonio. All air forces.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

In San Antonio. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And from there you went right into the. Into the pipeline.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah. So, yeah, the major base there And I forget what it's called. Whatever. Who cares? Nobody cares. But right across the street is there. There's an annex there. And that's where I think it still is, but that's where all STS guys were going to start their initial training.

[Interviewer]

And what's SCS stand for?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

For the Listeners Special Tactics Squadron.

[Interviewer]

And I mean, you guys have a notoriously long pipeline. How. How long was. Was the pipeline when. When you were there? If it. Roughly.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

So I went over there in January across the street, and then I finished Combat Control School in December, I believe I want to say. Okay, so, yeah, that was a while.

[Interviewer]

And what's, what's the pipeline consist of? Do you guys call it in phases or what? What do you guys. I don't know.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Now they've actually changed. So the. Go back to the beginning. Like now. I believe STS has its own basic training.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Because the hardest part for basic training, the Air Force was trying to stay

[Interviewer]

in shape for what's next for you guys. Yeah.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

But so supposedly now I believe they have their own flights so they can maintain their fitness and all that. So it works out then. But yeah, then it was. You go across the street, you do about a month of selection, if you will, a lot of pool time, runs all this stuff, and then from there you go to SEAR School, I believe, and then you go to Air Traffic Control School, and then you go to Basic Airborne, and then your final is Combat Control School where they put it all together.

[Interviewer]

Okay. The. It's, it's, it's. Even. Even though I've worked with you guys both on the white side and at the tier one level, you know, most of my career, I don't know much about, about your pipeline. You got. Don't you guys come out dive and Halo as well through, through that program?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah, yeah. So that was a major reason why I chose, you know, Air Force in

[Interviewer]

general for the badges.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah, it was guaranteed. Guaranteed. You have Halo and Scuba and Airborne. Like you have to have it to be able to be your 3 level. 5 level combat control PJ.

[Interviewer]

When do they squeeze that into the pipeline?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

So, yeah, you finish Combat Control School, get your beret, and then you go down to Florida in Herbie. And at the time it was called Advanced Skills Training. And that's when you do all your upgrade stuff.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Air Force has all this like levels three level or a bunch of wizards five level. For us to deploy, we had to be five levels. So we graduate Combat Control School, you're three level. Technically you deploy, but you can't do too much. The advanced skills training gets you to your five level and that's where you go to halo dive and then you do a lot more air traffic control stuff. You do airfield cheesers, alternate insertion, distractions, all that kind of stuff.

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[Interviewer]

Let's get them over with the did you not go to Key west at that time? You did the one with the dive school in O5. It's crazy. It was 20 years ago.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

Yeah, I went April of 03.

[Interviewer]

We were the, we were the first all army class. So you guys had just broke off and and did your did your your own your own dive school. So even Though, but even though I didn't go to dive school with, with any of you guys, it was, it was well known that even though, you know, it's, it's an especially army special Forces owned the dive school, we had, you know, a little bit more seasoned operators coming through that dive school. But that's, that actually can work for you and against you to some degree because, because you're busy doing your job and then you have to, then you have to get in sorts of the best, not necessarily the best shape of your life, but you have to get in water shape to go to that school. And it was, it was well known that when you guys came to that school, for the most part you're very young and you're very in shape and that you guys would just come through and crush that school.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

And very, very stupid too. I felt, yeah, I felt really bad for the army folks there because yes, we were all 19 year old idiots.

[Interviewer]

You've been training for this since, I mean not every day, but you, you've been training this for, for almost a year. Like you know, you know what, what's at the, at the end of this? And you guys come in, it's just running and swimming.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

So we show it's. Yeah, even. Even so we still had to do a four week pre scuba. So you're doing all this stuff for you know, almost a year. Then you go down to AST and you do four more weeks of pre scuba, which really hounds on the specifics of dive school.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

And then so yeah, at the end of that, like you're ready to rock

[Interviewer]

this thing the back up a little bit. You know, just as far as the, the job of, of combat controller. What ev. Obviously everyone knows you guys drop bombs. It's what you do and you do it better than, better than anyone. But what what all does, what does what all does the job entail?

[Combat Controller Veteran]

So it's basically anything that needs that air to ground integration type thing. So whether it's air drops or. Yeah. Dropping bombs or putting aircraft on auster airfields or not even and putting on somebody else's airfield, anything that needs that integration between the air and ground, stuff like that, that's what we're getting in. And to include maybe surveying airfields.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

You know, working with the Rangers a lot to do airfield seizure missions.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Combat Controller Veteran]

And then yeah, dropping bombs is, is the thing that just I think like Somalia is what kicked that off is like wow, these guys are really good at that. It's like. Well yeah, because we talk those. That's our job is talking to those people. Naturally, that would kind of.

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[Combat Controller Veteran]

Flow under it.