Tier1 Podcast: Fred Baker | Air Force Tier1 CCT | Combat Controller Selection and Joint Special Operations

Host: Brent Tucker
Guest: Fred Baker
Date: December 15, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Brent Tucker sits down with Fred Baker, a veteran Air Force Combat Controller (CCT) and former member of the 24th Special Tactics Squadron (2/4 STS), the Air Force’s Tier 1 unit. They discuss Fred’s journey from a military family through his grueling pipeline training, the nuances of the CCT mission, unique elements of Air Force special operations, the evolution of joint special operations, and the realities and misconceptions of Tier 1 service. The conversation provides an insider’s perspective rarely accessible to outsiders, balancing technical details with personal anecdotes and candid reflections on leadership, operational tempo, culture, and legacy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Upbringing

• Military Childhood: Fred grew up in a military family—both parents in service, which shaped his worldview and sense of inevitability about joining. (06:00)
  • “My dad was in special operations since the beginning... Vietnam, Cold War. He was actually tasked to do Desert One” — Fred (05:46)
• Decision to Join: Baker wasn’t pushed but felt drawn by legacy and environment; initially considered the Army (Rangers), but a family connection introduced him directly to the world of Combat Control. (08:11)

2. Combat Controller Pipeline

• Complex, Demanding Training: The CCT pipeline is long and intricate—basic, selection, SERE, air traffic, airborne, Combat Control School (CCS), then advanced skills including dive and HALO.
  • “It was guaranteed—HALO and scuba and airborne. Like, you have to have it to be a controller” — Fred (14:01)
• Value of "Ignorance": Both reflect that less knowledge made the journey psychologically easier; knowing too much can create preconceived limits. (10:22)
  • “That ignorance is actually a blessing, I think for myself” — Fred (10:24)

3. Diving and Halo School Experiences

• Physical and Mental Endurance: Dive school is infamous for being emotionally grueling, but Air Force candidates often excel due to youthful fitness and specialized preps.
  • “We were all 19-year-old idiots... we’d been training for almost a year... just running and swimming.” — Fred (16:01)
• Medical Hurdles: Fred shares a personal health scare—a heart arrhythmia discovered during pre-scuba, remedied by a “catheter ablation” (27:07), then picking up training without recycling fully.
• Unique Cultures: Vivid anecdotes about the culture of dive school, single man/two man comp stories, interplay with SEAL/Army instructors, survival through camaraderie and humor. (34:42–38:07)

4. The Combat Controller Mission: More Than Dropping Bombs

• Air-to-Ground Integration: The CCT’s specialized skill isn’t just calling airstrikes—it's orchestrating air-ground operations: controlling airfields (surveying difficult runways, logistics), airdrop support, integrating airpower.
  • “It’s basically anything that needs that air to ground integration... not just dropping bombs” — Fred (17:02)
• Surveys and Logistics: Explains how CCTs survey and prepare remote/Austere airfields, calculate load-bearing capacity, and coordinate landings in extreme or unconventional places.
• Professionalism vs. Myth: Countering Hollywood/cowboy myths about SOF, emphasizing meticulous planning and the career-long specialty of precision air-ground integration.

5. Realities of Combat and the White Side vs. Tier 1

• Deployment Experiences: Early deployments included working closely with 3rd Group (Army SF) in Afghanistan (51:08), then 5th Group in Iraq, learning in high-stress environments and accelerating operational proficiency.
• Operational Tempo: Striking difference in speed and approval tempo (“command moves fast... could be in the chow hall, then you need to be on a bird in 45 minutes”), compared to conventional special forces units. (52:28)
• Rules and Friction: Frustrations with bureaucracy and approvals on the "white side"; workarounds and risk tolerance among high-performing teams. (55:36)
• Transition to 2/4 STS: Fred took the time to build his operational resume before going for selection—recognized the need to “get faster,” both physically and in mission planning. (59:24, 61:37)

6. Unit Culture, Imposter Syndrome, and Drive

• Confidence and Humility: Despite “imposter syndrome,” Fred describes being perpetually driven by a sense of not being “top 1%,” knowing that both quiet confidence and self-doubt can fuel relentless improvement.
  • “To this day, I still have imposter syndrome... I just didn’t feel like I was the top 1%... just took everything in and got through it” — Fred (62:23)
• Quiet Professionals: Air Force SOF maintains a strong ethos of humility, internal drive, and crediting the team. (90:06)
• Rotational Challenges: Air Force controllers, compared to SEALs or Green Berets, often hop between units, frequently forming new bonds and proving themselves in new environments (76:49).

7. The Joint/Tier 1 Community: Differences and Similarities

• Navy vs. Army Tier 1: Navy groups are “light, fast, sneaky,” Army units pack heavy for firepower, but both are relentlessly capable and train constantly.
  • “In the 10,000-foot view, they’re both very much the same... always training, all the time, all year” — Fred (68:55)
• Deep Integration: Air Force CCTs get “a deep look at both of us”—working back and forth with both Army and Navy elements, a rare level of cross-pollination (67:26).
• Unilateral Operations: While rarely thought of as “unilateral,” 2/4 has a legacy of CCTs running missions alone (e.g., single-man airfield setup in Desert One), enabling the joint force. (72:40)

8. Evolving Roles, Institutional Challenges, and the Future of Air Force SOF

• Expansion and Redesignation: Discusses the conversion of Special Operations Weathermen into versatile Special Reconnaissance roles—emphasizing adaptation and value to joint force (79:57).
• Institutional Tension: A recurring theme is how the broader Air Force often misunderstands or undervalues its ground SOF, lacking awareness of CCT/PJ impact unless directly affected by their actions.
  • “There’s a ton of Air Force that doesn’t know anything about us.” — Fred (88:02)
• Need to Adapt: Fred stresses the need for “constantly growing and improving our fighting position.” Stagnation risks obsolescence as sister services develop their own JTAC, recovery, or recon capabilities. (82:58)
• Quiet Professionalism vs. Recognition: Willingness to remain “quiet professionals” can be to the community’s detriment; calls for more institutional support and public understanding—done in a way that honors the community ethos. (90:06)

9. Life After Service & Teaching

• Transitioning to Civilian Life: After leaving, Fred co-founded a distance shooting school, focusing on realistic fundamentals and innovative carbine/sniper training (97:04).
• Advice for Shooters: “Your rifle is way more capable than you are,” advocating honing skills before investing in hardware upgrades. (97:11)

10. Memorable Anecdotes & Lessons

• Dive School Humor: Tales of being the “comic guy” at dive school, instructors with “fanny packs, salt and pepper hair,” and mishaps during training events. (38:07)
• Funny Story – “Big Dick Six”: Fred recounts accidentally leaving his phone named “Big Dick Six” from an outstation when connecting at headquarters and getting called out for bandwidth use—a testament to SOF's irreverent humor under stress. (101:25–103:49)
• Imposter Syndrome (Openly Shared):
  • “I never talked about it when I was in... Now I’m sure I have talked about it.” — Fred (65:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On CCT Specialization:
  “It’s basically anything that needs that air to ground integration... not just dropping bombs or putting aircraft on austere airfields.” — Fred (17:02)
• On Training Ignorance:
  “That ignorance is actually a blessing, I think for myself... there was no expectation. Like, all I’m going to do is not quit.” — Fred (10:24)
• On Operational Speed:
  “They could be in the chow hall and the next thing you know, you need to be on a bird in 45 minutes—with the plan, with contingency plans... that gave me a really good perspective in the beginning.” — Fred (52:28)
• On Quiet Professionalism vs. Visibility:
  “We still are—nobody wants to say these words—very much quiet professionals. I hate talking about myself. I hate self-promoting. But I want my guys to have all the credit.” — Fred (90:06)
• On Cross-Unit Differences:
  “The Navy’s really, really light and fast... then the army, you’re gonna make it, like, they pack heavy bombs, heavy ammo, heavy everything.” — Fred (70:03)
• On the Need to Adapt:
  “If we’re not adapting and we’re not growing... they’re going to figure it out that an ODA can just create a JTAC group... It’s easier to hit the go button and get one of those. But if they took it seriously, it makes sense to have a guy who’s doing that job for years.” — Fred (82:58)
• On Humor in SOF:
  “My best friend... kind of adopted that call sign, except he changed it to Big Dick Six... and so I named my phone Big Dick Six. Hilarious. Except I didn’t change it when I went overseas.” — Fred (102:36)
• On ‘Imposter Syndrome’:
  “To this day, I still have imposter syndrome... I just didn’t feel like I was the top 1%... just took everything in.” — Fred (62:23)

Important Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Early Military Influence – 05:38–10:22
• The CCT Pipeline – 12:02–14:52
• Dive School Discussions & Anecdotes – 31:06–38:07
• Discussion of Air-to-Ground Integration & Airfield Surveys – 17:02–24:05
• Operational Speed: Tier 1 Pace – 52:06–52:40
• Transitioning to Tier 1 / Selection Realities – 59:24–63:20
• Imposter Syndrome & Motivation – 62:23–65:40
• Joint SOF Unit Differences – 67:26–70:42
• Special Recon Weather Redesignation/Future Outlook – 79:57–83:50
• Air Force SOF Visibility & Leadership Dynamics – 85:15–88:06
• Podcast's Humorous Close – "Big Dick Six" Story – 101:25–103:49
• Final Reflections on Quiet Professionalism – 90:06–92:13

Episode Takeaways

This episode provides an authentic, nuanced view of the Air Force’s elite CCT mission and its place in the broader special operations community. Fred Baker’s blend of humility, humor, and professional insight exposes listeners to both the technical rigor and human side of high-level SOF service. Through detailed discussion and memorable storytelling, the podcast demystifies the unique capabilities of Air Force Tier 1 operators and offers timeless lessons on professional philosophy, adaptability, and the persistent value of being a “quiet professional.”