Navy Seal Still Fighting | Bill Brown

Summary

Tier1 Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Navy Seal Still Fighting | Bill Brown
Date: February 23, 2026
Host: Brent Tucker
Guest: Bill Brown, Jr.
Producer: Drew Tucker

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Tier1 Podcast, hosted by former Delta Force Operator Brent Tucker, features Bill Brown, Jr.—a former Navy SEAL and current lawyer advocating for American values with the Politore Law Group. The conversation delves deep into Bill’s journey: from a troubled youth, through rigorous SEAL training and combat deployments, to his advocacy work and legal battles for American veterans’ rights and values. The discussion highlights themes of patriotism, responsibility, team culture, the fight for free speech, legal reform, and the importance of speaking up against cultural and institutional challenges.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Patriotism, Values, and the State of the Country

• The hosts and Bill discuss concerns over the erosion of traditional American values, highlighting the importance of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (03:59).
• Tucker and Brown lament the spread of ideologies they view as antithetical to American principles, stressing the country’s role in global progress and freedom (04:02–06:45).
  • Bill Brown: “When you want to talk about freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, due process, equality, we started that.” (05:07)
• Both emphasize the need for those who served—veterans, law enforcement, first responders—to speak up and be the “adults in the room” using logic, facts, and courage (07:41–08:00).

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2. Bill Brown’s Path to the SEALs (08:21–13:32)

• Bill joined the Navy in 1997, coming from a long line of military veterans and credits the service with saving his life after a troubled, “rough and tumble” youth involving time in juvenile detention (08:29).
• He speaks candidly about not excelling academically prior to service and how BUD/S (SEAL training) instilled responsibility, humility, and the drive to self-improve.
  • “I was kind of a rock...The Navy saved my life.” (09:00)
• The military, he notes, builds you up with positive peer pressure and responsibility, forging strong, growth-oriented relationships that cut across backgrounds and regions (11:03–13:32).

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3. SEAL Training: Structure and Hard Lessons (16:41–38:00)

• BUD/S Phases Breakdown:
  1. First Phase: "The beatdown phase" – focus on endurance, competition, and teamwork, with strong incentives to win (18:54–21:51).
  2. Second Phase: Dive phase—pool comp, stress management underwater, tactical dives (22:03–28:35).
  3. Third Phase: Land warfare, small unit tactics, firearms training—Brown describes this as the most enjoyable.
• Memorable moment: Bill recounts going through BUD/S with David Goggins:
  • “Having a motor like David Goggins in your boat crew paid off for everybody.” (19:09)
• He highlights the dynamic diversity of the SEAL pipeline, mentioning learning from teammates with varied backgrounds and skillsets.

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4. Lessons from Team Culture and Mistakes (33:07–38:00)

• Bill shares stories about team discipline, mistakes, and “tough love” that corrected his own behavior, including a rough incident with platoon mates after a drinking mishap in Germany.
  • “They roughed me up...But after I got teed up, I never had another alcohol related incident.” (34:49–35:02)
• Emphasis is placed on the team’s role in forging accountability, allowing for mistakes, but placing importance on not repeating them.

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5. SEAL Team Structure and Deployments (38:50–54:00)

• Bill explains the structure and history of SEAL teams (west coast = odd-numbers, east coast = even).
• He describes his time with SEAL Team 8, with details on operational structure and platoon organization (41:22–44:07).
• Bill’s specializations included being a comms guy, JTAC, diver, Hurst/castmaster, and breacher.

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6. Iraq Deployment Experience (48:38–54:08)

• Bill’s 2004–2005 Iraq deployment involved providing Personal Security Detail (PSD) for senior Iraqi dignitaries and monitoring their activities, often working alongside agency personnel.
• He describes the complexities of managing security in coordination (and sometimes contention) with local Iraqi forces and navigating environments where influence and alliances were fluid.
• Bill reflects on being a first responder to suicide bombings and the initial optimism and investment among SEALs, many of whom saw potential and belief in Iraq’s future.
  • "We believed in it. The guys…they were investing a shit ton of money in dinars. Because they thought, look, it's just—it's got a state, it's got a stable resource. We can stabilize this." (55:13)

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7. Reflections on the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars (54:11–63:05)

• Bill contrasts the “success” of Iraq (relative stabilization, expanded rights) with the collapse in Afghanistan after 2021, critiquing military and political leadership for strategic failures and lack of accountability.
  • “They humiliated us on a world stage and not one general paid the price for that.” (58:53)
• Discussion includes advocacy for honest, logic-driven debate within the military and government, and the cultural divide over how dissent is handled.

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8. Transition to Civilian Life and Legal Career (65:26–79:11)

• After eight years as a SEAL and three deployments, Bill left active service planning to return but was drawn into education and then law (66:01–66:44).
• He details the challenges and culture shock of being a non-traditional student—older, more experienced—in an environment of younger, often left-leaning peers and professors (67:10–68:44).
• Bill advocates for “adventure therapy” and urges veterans to pursue educational goals for structure and transition.
  • “For me…the other thing is when I was going to college, it kept my mind positive… I had a goal.” (69:25–69:50)
• Inspired by constitutional law classes, Bill pursued law school, focusing on commercial litigation rather than family or criminal law for its relative objectivity.
  • “The individual's rights are sacred. That's so beautiful to me.” (71:52)
• He shares the moral dilemmas faced working in law firms pushing social agendas, describing being effectively forced onto cases defending the Catholic Church in molestation lawsuits as punitive assignment—an experience that changed his views on courage and advocacy.
  • “They put my nose in shit...But the lesson they thought they were going to teach me, it's not the lesson I learned. I learned from those victims who, who stood up.” (83:44–84:02)

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9. Advocacy for Veterans’ Rights and Legal Reform (90:57–95:36)

• Bill discusses his lawsuit challenging the omission of veterans as a protected class under New Jersey law, and his campaign to pass new legislation.
  • Memorable protest: “Stop sitting on these bills. Do rights for veterans.” (95:03)
• Through organizing, protests, and media attention, the law was successfully passed to protect veterans’ employment rights.

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10. The New York City SEAL Swim (96:39–110:35)

• Bill founded the NYC SEAL Swim, an annual open-water event honoring 9/11 victims, veterans, and America’s diversity. The swim traverses the Hudson to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island, then culminates at Ground Zero.
  • Symbolic acts: 100 pushups & 22 pullups for each portion to honor veterans and those lost on 9/11 (103:01).
  • “When you get a bunch of war fighters together that are going to do something like this, you're going to get media attention, which helps us send that message.” (102:30)
• The event also funds veteran charities and provides healing and unity, blending athletic challenge with remembrance and positive messaging.

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11. The Call to Stand Up—Current and Future Mission (112:05–114:13)

• Bill’s closing message urges listeners, especially veterans and first responders, to “fight like someone’s trying to take your wife away”—to speak up and act while it can make a difference.
  • “I thoroughly believe our country's in trouble… The time to speak up, like, I honestly say this, you gotta fight like someone's got trying to take your wife away. Right? Because our freedoms are like in jeopardy.” (112:05)
• The hosts agree, stressing that the fight for values and reason isn't lost if people are willing to stand.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the power of positive peer groups:
  “Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are.” — Brent Tucker (15:11)

• On military camaraderie:
  “All boats rise together.” — Bill Brown, Jr. (13:32)

• On the value of making mistakes, team accountability, and moving forward:
  “No one expects you to be perfect...Just don't make the same mistake twice.” — Brent Tucker (35:06)

• On the realities of war and leadership’s failures:
  “They humiliated us on a world stage and not one general paid the price for that.” — Brent Tucker (58:53)

• On legal reform and veterans’ rights:
  “Now veterans are a protected class. And you know what it reminds me of? … that revolutionary flag…don’t tread on me.” — Bill Brown, Jr. (96:04)

• On corporate culture and free speech:
  “They want to promote one thing and then they want to step on another.” — Bill Brown, Jr. (83:17)

• On taking action:
  “Nothing is lost as long as good men and women and willingness stand up. Nothing.” — Bill Brown, Jr. (114:08)

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Important Timestamps for Content Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 02:16 | Introduction of Bill Brown, Jr. | | 04:02 | American values/patriotism discussion | | 08:29 | Bill’s background and joining Navy SEALs | | 16:41 | Life lessons and relationships in SOF | | 18:54 | BUD/S boat crews and David Goggins anecdotes | | 20:35 | SEAL training phases explained | | 33:07 | Hard lessons in SEALs and BUD/S culture | | 38:50 | SEAL team structure/explanation | | 48:38 | Iraq deployment—PSD & local dynamics | | 54:11 | Reflections on Iraq/Afghanistan | | 65:26 | Transition to civilian life and education | | 71:52 | Inspiration from constitutional law | | 78:59 | Professional/cultural challenges as lawyer | | 90:57 | Legal advocacy for veterans as protected class | | 96:39 | Founding the New York City SEAL Swim | | 112:05 | Closing message—call to action for American values |

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Final Thoughts

This episode stands out for its raw candor and motivational honesty. Bill Brown’s journey exemplifies hard-won transformation—from troubled youth to elite warrior, to advocate and protector in a different battlefield. The spirited and sometimes emotional discussion between soldiers-turned-citizens will resonate with veterans and civilians alike, highlighting the enduring importance of principled leadership, brotherhood, and civic action.

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Listen to the Full Episode for

• Gripping personal stories from BUD/S and Iraq
• Behind-the-scenes team culture of special operations
• Insights on the intersection of patriotism, legal reform, and personal responsibility
• Inspiration to “wake the sleeping giant” and defend American values

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For more info on the NYC SEAL Swim or to connect with Bill Brown, visit [links as referenced in the show].

Transcript

[Brent Tucker]

Hey, it's Sterling K. Brown from the Hulu original series Paradise. The next chapter begins as Xavier's search

[Bill Brown Jr.]

for his wife takes him above ground.

[Brent Tucker]

And what he finds will change everything. It was never just about the bunker. Tune in and discover the truth lies outside Paradise. The official podcast is now streaming and stream paradise on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. Welcome back to the Tier One Podcast. I am your host, Brent Tucker, owner of frcc. We do coffee, cigars, and we do bourbon. We do it better than anyone else. Go to FRCC shop and use promo code tier one to get 15% off. And I'm Drew Tucker with FRCC.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Guys, I invite you to join our Patreon, brought to you by Cobalt Kinetics. You got behind the Scene exclusive footage. We've got giveaways. We're giving away a great prize this month. We've got great prizes coming in the months ahead. We've got a fitness forum, a gun forum, and there's a Cobalt Kinetics weapons

[Brent Tucker]

expert waiting to answer your questions in the gun forum.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So what are you waiting for? Join the Patreon.

[Brent Tucker]

And this episode is brought to you by Human Performance TRT. Go to HP TRT and use promo code TIER1 for 20% off all of your testosterone and peptide needs. Don't wait any longer to get back into shape or be in the best shape of your life. Get some blood work done, see what's going on, and do something about it. All right, Drew, let's go.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Welcome to the tier one podcast.

[Brent Tucker]

This is amazing.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Dude, check this out.

[Brent Tucker]

That intro still gets me.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It rocks.

[Brent Tucker]

With us today, we have Bill Brown, Jr. Bill is a former Navy Seal and he's a current lawyer fighting for American values with the Politori Law Group. Thank you so much for being here, Bill. Can't wait to get into your story, what you've done and what you're doing now.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Brent, it's an honor to be here, you know, and Drew, I can't thank you guys enough. I think it's so important for men and women who put it on the line for our country to let their voices be heard. And that's what this podcast is. It's real grassroots, and I salute it.

[Brent Tucker]

I appreciate that. And we talked a little bit before the show. I. There's a lot about this country and what's going on to be concerned about, but. And I shouldn't say. I'm not saying, hey, put in blinders. Just focus on. On. On the positive. But at the same time, there are things to be positive about. I believe the pendulum is swinging in the right direction, but the fight has really just begun about that. And we have to ensure the pendulum keeps swinging and that our American values and we stand up for what's right and that we know is right and logical and that we present it in a logical way and show everyone, hey, this is, this is, this is the side you want to be on. And we'll show it by how we act and by the facts that we present.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Absolutely. Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. Yep. And we'll, we'll keep talking about this for a little bit because it's just, it's just, it's important to both of us. We talked about an hour about this beforehand. We'll get into your story. There's. There's only one way to the pursuit of, you know, life, liberty and happiness. And that. That is those traditional American values. That's, that's what started us off on the right path. The other side really wants to break down and, and rebuild the whole thing with. It's not dramatic to say communist, socialist, Marxist values that has been proven not to work, that they're anti American values. Well, I don't, I'll never understand why you want to stray away from the values that actually put a man on the moon and, and won world wars.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yep.

[Brent Tucker]

And invented the Internet. I could go on and on. We have a lot to be proud of.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

A lot, a lot. I mean, we've set the par for the entire planet.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

When you want to talk about freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, due process, equality, we started that. You know, you made a point earlier about how this country. We had a civil war with each other where we said something's wrong here for humanity, inequality. And we took action on it. And you had a good point. There's no other nation in the history of this planet that's done that. We have. You want to talk about who's led the way for women's rights? We did. You want to talk about who led the way for liberty in Europe with. Against the Nazi ideology? We did. How many times has America stood up? Americans stood up. We've led the way for humanity and social justice reform. We led the way. And good ideas and good products rise. And that's why we're in trouble here with this cancel culture. And it's in fact infested academia, it's infested corporate America. And that's why it's so important. For so long, too many good men and women haven't stood up, especially men in law enforcement, men and Women in the, in the armed services. Well, we served this country. We had a flag on our shoulder. We love this country. And you look what's happening now. You have so many leaders that don't love this country, that are out there trying to teach it, like, not to be proud, right. Not to be proud of who we are and what we've done and what we have accomplished and the example we have set. And that's why I think it's cool to be a patriot. I think it's cool to love this country, and I think it's cool to have the courage to stand up and fight for her.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. The, it's just the, the way our, our culture is. We just, we just go to work and, and we shut up and we have, we have our own problems to deal with. And. But there has been a few times I can think of in the recent past that every, every now and again, you wake up that sleeping giant.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

If you will. It takes a lot to wake up that sleeping giant, but when that sleeping giant awakes, it is absolutely a force to be reckoned with. And, and I, I think we're. I think we're almost there. And, and of course, I don't mean by, by the way of violence or anything like that, but just of people saying, hey, enough's enough. The other side is, has been very loud for a long time.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's right.

[Brent Tucker]

And we, and it seems like our quietness has been almost looked at as an approval.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's right.

[Brent Tucker]

But. But we don't approve. And you're. And you're going to start hearing from us.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's right. And that's what we're doing right now. Yeah, we're sending up a flare. We're saying, hey, now is the time for good men and women to speak up. Be the adults in the room, but speak up. Take action. Have the courage. Have the courage. And like you said, use reason, use logic. Be the adults in the room, but don't sit on your hands now.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, absolutely. And there's a lot that you're doing to. We're not just sitting here talking about it. You're out there living it. And we'll, we'll get to that on, on in just a little bit. But let's, let's talk about your story and, and, and how and how you got there. All right, you joined, obviously, you joined the Navy SEALs. You were pre 911 when you enlisted, correct?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yes, sir, I was.

[Brent Tucker]

When did you join and why the Navy?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Well, I joined in 1997.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And the reason why I joined was I came from a pretty patriotic family. And my pappy was a Navy World War II veteran. My grandfather was an army veteran, but he didn't. He didn't, you know, go to war, but he was a veteran. My father was a veteran. A lot of my uncles were veterans. And to be honest with you, I was a rough and tumble kid. And the 100% the Navy saved my life.

[Brent Tucker]

Love it.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And you know what? Here's the truth. I learned some hard lessons at Bud's because I. I was kind of a rock. I was. And that's probably one of the things when I kind of looked in the mirror and he took some. Some harsh, you know, blows as kind of what, you know, what phased me to kind of say, you know what? I need to kind of equalize myself a bit. And that's why I, you know, I started hunting education a little bit because I knew I, you know, I knew I had a flaw. Yeah, it's.

[Brent Tucker]

It's so ironic because the last SEAL we actually had on the podcast is a little bit of a similar story. It was Jimmy Watson. And Jimmy wasn't. Didn't do well in school and had street smarts, but he talked about that a lot. He knew it could be a challenge, and he knew there was growth there, and there's that stigma almost that, well, just kind of losers join the military. That's not. Not everyone says that, but, you know, sometimes there are people that think that, oh, yeah, and. And uneducated people join the military. And of course, that's true to some degree. But now that, now that you've served, we have. You want to talk about diversity? The military is full of. Of diversity. But Jimmy Watson went on to get his Trident serve, and he ends up being the CEO of McAfee Antivirus.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

What a badass.

[Brent Tucker]

I mean, he wasn't a dumb guy at all.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Hell no.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, so it's just. It's just ironic. And you just said that about yourself. Of course we, we know how that story ends. You go all the way to. To being a lawyer, so the. That. So the capability was there. But that's what I love about the military. It almost. It. It brings that out of you, it cultivates you. It challenges you to do things you didn't. Never thought you could do.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You're so. You're so right. And, you know, one of the other things is I'm in high school. I'm a complete, you know, misplaced priorities by an extreme level. But when I got into the Navy. And when I got, you know, I went to buds, it's not okay to be that guy that's not pulling his weight, right? And a lot of hard lessons there, right? In high school you can be an athlete and this and that, and it's not the same. And then here's the other beautiful thing about it. They give you responsibility. They give you responsibility. All of a sudden I'm an assistant calm guy or. And I got, you know, I got this responsibility and I'm, I'm working with somebody and I have, when you have responsibility, it builds real confidence. And then the other, the other great thing about it is when you go through BUDS or you know, some of the extreme type of high end military training you've gone through as you. And here's. Now I'll tell you the truth. I spent like off and on, probably about almost two years in and out of the detention center. I had to get a waiver before I went in, really. And when the worst thing about being in a detention center and I was actually in county jail the day after I turned 18, I got in a fight. The worst thing about being incarcerated for me was the guys I was surrounded with. And what I mean by that was like the law of forensics, right? Two properties meet, they inadvertently properties upon each other. So these guys, this, that, the things that they were talking about, it was just like, it was, they were just dragging each other down inadvertently. But here, when you go to the military, all your relationships are positive ended. Which, which what? I mean, we joke around, you know, things like that, but at the same time, like the stuff we're doing, we're really geared to try to do it to the best of our ability. So all our relationships were pushing each other's up. And the other thing it does, it brings guys from around the country, guys you've never met. Like, I never shot a gun before till I went to Butts. I'm with guys from down south like yourself who can shoot their ass off hunting, right. You know, or guys from Hawaii who know the water better than anybody, right. And all of a sudden I'm learning stuff from those guys or you know, guys who went to some pretty good colleges and now they're, I'm working with them and, and it builds like, you know what they say? All, all boats rise together, you know.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I think that's one of the beautiful things about the military. It taught me about responsibility. And then on top of that, you get to see the world. So good, so good, so good. New spring arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to 60% off rag and bone. Marc Jacobs Free People and more. How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Cause there's always something new. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you Rack I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting

[Brent Tucker]

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[Bill Brown Jr.]

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[Brent Tucker]

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[Bill Brown Jr.]

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[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I tell my son this and I tell anyone that will listen to me this. Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are. The people around you do two things. One, it shows what your life choices are because you get to choose your friends. It shows who you what what what is important in your life as far as characteristics, moral values. And the other thing is friends. They will, they will wherever they are to you. If they're below you, they will drag you down to their level. And if you chose friends that'll challenge you in a good way. They will bring you up to their level. And having who's around you is so important in life. And that is completely your choice. Yeah, that's even true within within special operations. Although now you're talking about like you're in buds and you're with a group of people with a common goal that are now you would you would assume are all all positive. But even within that group there are there are better groups of people to associate with than, than others. And, and it had a. And for me, who I associated with in my pipeline and in. When within the military had a direct correlation to, to where I went in the military

[Bill Brown Jr.]

a hundred percent. It's inertia and synergy. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yep. 100.

[Brent Tucker]

You, you went to, you went to Buds with David Goggins, didn't you?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's right, I did. I did. He was in my, he was in my boat crew and that's the second time I, I went through and you know, one of the things here's something I didn't quite understand until I got out of the teams. I didn't understand how this is adjective. Most people aren't going to associate with special operators, but here's the truth. How beautiful those guys were.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I mean the talent and you don't realize it till you step away from it a bit. And I, I didn't, I wasn't in for as long as you were and you know, I didn't do that many war deployments and I, you know, I wasn't a tier one operator. But the guys I was with and the guys I served with, you know, David Goggins is one example.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I mean they, the intensity that a human being can have and what, what we can do when we really focus.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It's pretty amazing.

[Brent Tucker]

I do want to ask you about them a little bit because that, that's a person you, you become. You know, if I. You're talking about, you got a lot of confidence because you did things. You know, the confidence I, I had later and, and how I, how I presented myself and how I carried myself was, was very different than how I carried myself as a selection candidate. You know, you'd, you'd look ridiculous carrying yourself like you've done something when, when you hadn't done anything yet. So I think and that's a hard lesson I learned. Right. So some people might think, oh well, you know, David Goggins and I don't know like maybe he was but did some. But something tells me the David Goggins that we see now was a very different David Goggins going, going through the, the training course or did you still see some characteristics of that back then?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Here's the David Goggins I knew was a. The guy you wanted in your so in buds at least first phase were broken down into boat cruise.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And the. And we do a series of races again, competitive races against each other. And the incentive is if you win, you get a break, you get A breather. Right, right. So there's a saying called paid. It pays to be a winner.

[Brent Tucker]

That's right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And it's very, extremely competitive, having a motor like David Goggin Jr. Boat crew paid off for everybody.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So. And then I did. I did some stuff with them, actually. My first snatch and grab in Iraq, they mixed us up with the West Coast Platoon. East Coast Platoon, and sure shit, Dave is with me.

[Brent Tucker]

Sorry.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And a friend of mine, his name is David Fritz, but he goes by Mikel Vega now. It was me Mikhail. I call him Mikhail now because that's what he wants. But we used to call him Hooch.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And Goggins and Mikel led to prayer, and that was my first snatch and grab in Baghdad. And so, look, I loved Goggins. I'm honored he had me in his books. I think the message he put out there is the right message. It's about improvement, not feeling sorry for yourself, you know, and just like one of the things we were talking about earlier, me, you and Drew, you get. You get knocked down on your ass, you get back up, and it doesn't. You know. Yeah, I. They failed me two weeks from graduation. And you know what? I had it coming. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Just to take a step back, and it may have changed since then. Walk us through the different phases of. Of SEAL training.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Oh, you got it. So the first phase is basically. They call it first phase. And that's. That's basically the. The beat down phase. And what they're. What they're trying to tell there is if. If you have the. The will to continue, like, if you have, you know, the will, and. And basically you have a series of races, but at the same time, the instructors are. They're putting a juice on you.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so everything you do there is timed. Every. Timed evolution. And one of the things they do is they have a big board. And if you're In a top 20%, your name's highlighted in blue. If you're. If you're like in the, you know, the bottom 40, your name's highlighted in red. You don't want to have too many red highlights, because all of a sudden they start. You draw more attention.

[Brent Tucker]

Right?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And one of the things that happens, and this is. And not only that, there's two ways. There's a lot of peer pressure here, too, because they draw the heat on you like a vice if you're underperforming. Okay. And now it's not just you. Your boat crew's getting taxed. And here's the other thing. If you're not holding your weight under your boat crew. And now your boat crew's not getting the brakes.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Inadvertently stress levels, guys are going to come at each other a bit.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's the first phase.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. This, how long is that roughly?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

If I had to guess looking back, and I apologize for not knowing, I'm going to say it's almost two months. I think each phase is roughly two months.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So total course is six. If you make it straight through, the next phase is die phase.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And there they're. So the attrition rate. Their first phase, as everybody knows, is hell week. The big second attrition is a. It's basically evolution called pool comp.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And basically they're trying to, number one, see how you handle yourself, yourself under stress in the water, you know, diving and things. And the, the key to that is basically you're, you have a open circuit 2080 scuba tanks. Yep. And one of the things they do is they have two bricks and they're roughly, I would say 20, 20ft apart. Maybe a little bit longer, not too much. You'll crawl, you'll crawl from one brick to the other at the bottom of the pool. And what they'll call it, they'll call it a surf hit. And so they come up there, they'll yank your regulator up, they'll put it in a little knot behind you.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And then they'll turn off your air. They'll take off your mask, spin you around about. And now the, it's. If you figure out how to problem solve it, it's not. You just like a lot of things, you try to break it up. So the first thing I want to do is I want to reach back, if I can, and turn on my error.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Because if I can turn on my air, it's going to help my, the, the knots get out easier because now they're pressurized Right. Now the next thing is, after I turn on my air, what do I want to do is I want to try to, I want to try to work on those. Because it's a twin regulator. You got these tubes back here. They get out the knots that they did. And then once you get out the knots, it's a beautiful thing because now you're getting some air. Now some guys have an issue is once they get that air, they still get some water up in their nose.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And for some reason, like I was born with a cleft palate and so I was always kind of used to getting water in there anyway. But some guys they kind of like. It kind of spooks them a bit. But you just have to realize every time you're going to take a breath, you're going to get a little water up in your nose. Anyhow, the next step is. It's basically kind of reminding me like before you do a jump or even a dive, you're just checking your gear, making sure everything's stowed away. Right. You know?

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so what happens is after you get the air, the real part of the evolution is done if you're, if you're cool.

[Brent Tucker]

Mm.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And there you're just putting back. You put. Oh, no, you put your weight belt around your knees so you don't float up. But what you're doing is you're putting back on your twin 80s and you're making sure there's no twists and everything's. You got your three, I think it's three finger loops. Your quick release is all set. And if you just take your time there, you're going to be all right. That's a mistake some guys make is they rust that and, and once. Because then they're going to tag you on like a twist or knot or something like that or twisted strap. Not having a proper quick release. That's the biggest and rate for second phase.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And after that, you, we, we were. None of this stuff. Everything I'm talking about is way out there. So I'm not saying anything. No one doesn't know. As we, we dive a closed circuit apparatus Edge Regular 5, which you're very familiar with, which is kind of cool. You're doing lots of night dives. No. You know, looking at attack board, glow sense and compass.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, it's not, it's, it's, it. Those, those Draeger dives, don't get me wrong, they're. They're cool. I still, you know, remember the first time I dove on a dragger. It's, it's eerie because you're used to the open circuit, used to bubbles going out and then you're, you're sitting there in the, in the rebreather, no bubbles, completely silent. That's a piano three. You look cool. You look cool in it and being on the water going. Yeah, this is, this is special operations diving. And. But the, the joy of it goes away real quick

[Bill Brown Jr.]

when you're doing our long dives. It sucks.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. You, you're not even during the day. You don't really get to. It's, it's. You're not, you're not in Hawaii.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

No.

[Brent Tucker]

Doing Touristy things, looking at, at life. You're staring at this compass board six inches from your face, thinning as hard as you possibly can. That's all you see. You just see the heading, you're, you're on. That's, that's, and that's. And that's when you even get to do it during the day. It's even, it's even worse at night.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's right.

[Brent Tucker]

It's just, it's not, it's not. It's cool as it looks, I think diving is one of the least. See how I word this correctly? The coolest looking thing you can do in the military, that's the total opposite. That's the least amount of fun.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I remember doing some dives or for some reason I have like a leaky mask, right? And I'm like, Jesus. And so I'm getting tired of clearing my mask, you know, and so I'll wait till it gets damp, you know, right next to my eye, and then all of a sudden I'll clear it again. And just like doing that for a couple of hours, it gets frustrating. And then the other thing too is, you know, I love being a driver, but if you're not the driver, you're. Because, you know, the buddy system, you're riding on top of a guy, right? And you know, you got, you know, you got. Because one of the things we do is have a plexi board that we kind of mounted so it'd be around and that way we dry erase pencil, we could kind of clock the different legs, the time, the depths, right? And so you're, you got your stopwatch and you're trying to follow this dive as much as you can, but when you're doing that for like a couple of hours and you're not in control, it gets frustrating.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Yeah. The, it's just fun. Just, just reminding me of things. Of course you have your dive buddy with you, and the first time you're doing it at night, it's just. Well, almost every time you do it, it's just not normal to be in the water at night. You're, you're no longer the predator. You, you are the prey. There, there are, there are things in the ocean bigger than you and you can't see. And every now and again you'll have your, your dive buddy will brush up against you or something of his will brush off against you, or I thought that's what it was, or I hope that's what it was. And your mind starts playing tricks on you, like what Just bu. In this. In the. Or the. The moon kind of dancing on the. On the surface will kind of throw shadows and it makes you look. What was that shadow? It's just a very eerie, eerie thing to do.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's a great way to describe it too, because I remember, like, doing a dive and like, they got some type of algae in the water, and when you move through it, it's kind of illuminescent.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so I'm looking at my buddy, and it's almost like I'm diving with a ghost. And. And then you have some type of excursions, because I remember going into San Diego Bay, there's, like some type of big ship that was going over us, and when you're diving pure O2 at a certain depth, it becomes toxic. Right. So we got to do excursion. We got. We were sucking mud all the way down.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And it's. Because now we can't move because the thing was. All right, we know we gotta not move because it's going to mess up with our compass with this big ship above us.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And it. And this is a nighttime. And it just. All the muck from the. From the bottom of the bay, just. And it's so dark.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Like, I can't see my hand in front of my face. And now it's cold. And now literally me and my buddy are, like, thinking we're going to hype out in the water. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

The water just so, so crazy. It just is. Um, and on top of that, not only is doing the deed itself exhausting, you know, so many. So many things can go wrong. People just don't understand the. The prep that goes in. The diving is more extensive than anything else in the military. And of course, when. When the fun is done, if you will, then all the work you have to do to clean off all your equipment.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

And get the boats up and be done with it. It's just exhausting. They don't show that in the movies.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

They don't. So you're. You're cleaning your gear, you're stowing your gear, and then you got a debrief. You're not. Good luck getting sleep.

[Brent Tucker]

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[Bill Brown Jr.]

So third phase is, is, you know, land warfare. And so we, we learned kind of basic UDT kind of small unit tactics. You, it's, for me, it's the first time I ever shot a gun. And you know, it's probably the funnest part of buds, but it's kind of interesting in a way. It's, you know, probably similar to a lot of the training you've done is parts of BUDS are very isolated and a lot of my training in the teams was very isolated and it kind of reminds me of like professional boxers. Like they'll take them out to some camp in the middle of nowhere and it's good in a way because your, your focus is, everything is on your training.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But at the same time, here's the thing, here's the truth too. When you're around a bunch of beautiful men that love their, our country, doing everything they can to be the best American war fighters they can be sometimes, you know. Yeah, that's an understatement.

[Brent Tucker]

The, it actually reminds me of a, of a story. I was, I was in phase two, which is our, which is our small unit tactics, basically like SF version of Ranger school, just out in the woods doing small unit tactics. We were doing a, a trading mission. We had two guys that were on a, basically a reconnaissance point and, and the rest of us were going to assault this compounder or village with phase lines. And when I say assaulted, not like CQB sexy, I'm talking like just infantry phase lines clear through.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Okay, roger that.

[Brent Tucker]

And the two guys in the, in the surveillance and reconnaissance position were well known to our, our squad to not like each other. Oh, they did not like each other.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Did they do it on purpose to put them, to try to work it out?

[Brent Tucker]

I don't remember.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Oh no.

[Brent Tucker]

But I do remember this. When the hit was over, we, it was, it was, it was, we, we all, you know, it was like index, you know, you know, come back to the to the instructor. And we were going to debrief right there, kind of what happened. And so we get there, we're waiting on those two guys because they're the furthest ones out and they're in their element. And they come back, and they come back and one dude's got, like, a bloody lip and a black eye and the other one's all disheveled. And the instructor looks at him and goes, you know, I don't even want to know. Like, is it. Is it settled? And they're like, yeah, it's settled. And they're like, okay, on with the debrief. And I was like, I'll. I like that.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's. That's the way, you know, that's the. That's the way it should be. And, you know, I. I learned some hard lessons in the teams and I. And at buds, and I. I'll tell you one lesson. And I. I was a. A young new guy in. In Garmus, Germany. We're doing some winter warfare stuff there. And I got. I got house drunk, man. And the next morning I heard some stories. Right. I'm not even going to say it here.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But they, they taught me a real lesson. They roughed me up a bit. But not only did they do that, is when I woke up, I'm in a stall. Because we're in some, like, cabin in some mountains. In. In garments. Germany somewhere, and I'm in a stall and I have the. The spinal board.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I'm rigorous tape to the spinal board upside down, so when I throw up, I don't choke.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I woke up with the biggest headache.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Biggest headache and a lot of stories. I was embarrassed. There's no other way to say I was embarrassed. I wasn't allowed to drink for six months. But you know what? After I got teed up.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I never in my life had another alcohol related incident. Never.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Yeah. The. It's such a big lesson in life. And to me, and it's this. No one expects you to be perfect, but no one's ever asked anyone to be perfect. You are going to make mistakes. And for the most part, I think the challenge is this. Just don't make the same mistake twice. Just don't make the same mistake twice. And even, even the. And you can make some pretty big mistakes.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I have.

[Brent Tucker]

Trust me. And hopefully the big ones are much fewer. You can only get so many big mistakes.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's true.

[Brent Tucker]

Learn from them. Don't make the same mistake twice. Of course, that's. That's Been. Part of my problem with my life is I'm really creative and I can make a lot of first mistakes, but I don't, I don't make a lot of the same mistakes. And so you just have to learn from it, move on. And that's, that's life, how you deal with, with bad things. Which is. Which is what you did.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

The. When. When you graduated your, your SEAL training, right. You get sent to SEAL Team 8, correct?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Not quite. So our pipeline is. For me, if I recall correctly, I went to jump school.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Which was fun.

[Brent Tucker]

That was after phase three. You guys go to jumps after buds.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Roger.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. All right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So. And then I. We had something called sqt. I don't know if they still have it. SEAL qualification training. I believe that was about four to six months. I'm not. We were one of the first classes to go through.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Now that was more of a gentleman's course. They weren't, they weren't trying to press guys to see who's still going to be around like buds, but it was a more advanced kind of tactics sensitive, like you would do big FTX and things like that. Much more advanced than at buds.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I. The reasoning for it was to have guys, new guys that once they transition to the platoon, they're more ready to kind of.

[Brent Tucker]

To move in, hit the ground running.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

If we will.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

So you. But. So you have your. So you get your trident at the end of third phase.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Well, it's different now. I think they get it at sqt.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. When did you get it?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So once I got out of sqt, I went to my team teammate and then they had a probationary period.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And then you actually. And a lot what I would do there is I'd like help trade it and kind of like be a, A gopher for the different platoons.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And. But then I got in a platoon, a new guy and I want to, like, I think I finished com course and I went to a, like a couple chiefs asked me a bunch of different questions and then everybody that I went to that graduated from my class that went to teammate, we all got our birds together.

[Brent Tucker]

Really? Yeah, I really, I really enjoy doing this. We, you know, I've had seals on here before, but, you know, I don't always, you know, go into the details about, you know, about the training and, and, and again, I'm from the community, if you will. And I even told you that before. Like, I don't.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I.

[Brent Tucker]

It's probably been explained to me before, but I Don't remember, you know, all the different phases and, and getting it broken down like that. And so I, I guarantee you the, you know, the, the listeners will, will, will enjoy that too.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Well, some of it might be dated, but I feel the same way. When I like, you know, with Delta and things like that, it's very mystique to me.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And even with, you know, some of the units in, in my own community, it's, it's very similar. So I'm always kind of, you know, it's like, reminds me of dogs. Like we're trying to sniff each other.

[Brent Tucker]

What does your breed do? What does your breed do? The what? And speaking of that, let's keep breaking it down just for a second. You go to, you go to SEAL Team eight and yeah, heck, let's, let's zoom out like again, like just for the, for the sake of, of, of the listeners. Yeah. The, the SEAL teams explain the difference between, like when you hear terminology like, oh, east coast or west coast, how the, the different number teams and, and where they're divided at.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You got it. So originally There was Team 1 and Team 2, and Team 1's on the West coast and Team 2's on the East Coast. Those were the two teams that deployed to Vietnam. Since then the teams have expanded. All the odd number teams on the west coast, all the even number teams are on the east east coast. So odd west, east, even east. So you have, you know, 1, 3, 5 and 7 now.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And then you have 2, 4, 8.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah. And now it kind of changed a little bit for me too because my first platoon, they actually, the teams had different AOS areas of operations. But then after 9, 11, and they kind of, they kind of stopped that basically. And the way I saw it now, I was always just a door kicker. I was, you know, never a high ranking guy.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But from my assessment, looking back at things is the way they picked the way that guys went either to Iraq or Afghanistan was basically doing the workup. What. I think they evaluated what platoons were kind of vibing better.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. The, and so an sf, we also have, we have National Guard groups, you know, 19th and, and 20th group. Do the SEALs have reserve teams as well?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

They, they do have reserve teams, yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Do you know what the, they're, are they numbered as well or they just,

[Bill Brown Jr.]

you know, one of the things I, one of the things I learned in breacher school.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And it's helped me out in the legal world is never give an answer. You don't Know

[Brent Tucker]

I will find out and I'll put that on the screen so you don't even have to. To worry about that. So with within SEAL teammate, how. How is the team itself? How does, how does it get divvied up?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Well, things might be different organization of it, things might be different now. But back when I was in. And nothing I'm saying here is like not out there is it was broken up into platoons, okay. And each platoon had a relatively small number of guys that could be broken and each platoon could be broken up into basically two different fire elements. And a lot of that, you know, with some of our tactics the. And, and so like symmetrically, right, you would have two corpsmen, you would have two comm guys, you'd have two snipers. And at least in east platoon. And so one of the things that would work is the qualifications because for to do a deployment, you know, we always have water ops in our deployment and depending on where you're going, maybe desert warfare, urban, things like that. And so in each one of those type of. You always need two guys for specialized in air ops, two guys in engineering. And, and so what happens is, at least when I was in, guys would be going to a lot of schools on their own and we would call them C schools and they would be going to their C schools. They get their qualifications up. So basically for the. So the, the platoon can meet its requirements, right? Yeah. You know, you need fiber for a healthy gut, but do you actually know how? Quaker's been serving UP fiber since 1877. With over 100 great tasting, good source of fiber options to choose from. Whether you like old fashioned oats, instant oatmeal granola, or oatmeal squares. Quaker makes it delicious. Mmm. So good. Get your fiber with Quaker Shop. Quaker's good source of fiber products at a store near you. Time is valuable. That's why Lowe's blueprint takeoffs turn blueprints into quotes. Facts. Bring us your plans and we'll generate itemized material lists to make quoting easier so you can get back to building Plus.

[Brent Tucker]

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[Bill Brown Jr.]

access to thousands of building materials not sold in store. And when your order's ready, we'll deliver everything to the job site. Improving is easy at Lowe's.

[Brent Tucker]

What, what specialty did you get?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

My biggest would probably be a jtac.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I was a comm guy. I was a dive soup. I was a hearse cast master. I was a breacher because I, you know, got the southern guys could shoot.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And there's a lot of people don't understand it. Like, if you grow up shooting, it's different than if you're just, you know, yes, we're very well trained, and yes, you know, but it's a different. It's a difference. If you grow, you grow up that way.

[Brent Tucker]

There is also a negative aspect to growing up that way. And what I mean by that is you can, you can build in bad habits. And when you're shooting tactically and shooting the way, you know, special operations does, it's a very different type of shooting. There's no, there's no normal shooting of sorts that, that hunters, that, that translates over to hunters, like rarely do. Hunters aren't busting the room, busting in the rooms and shooting a deer 10 times, you know, as fast as they can while clearing their corner. It just doesn't. It kind of translates over because it is shooting. But you can build in a lot of bad habits. And to get really good at shooting, you have to have a good foundation that you can build off of to get to that final product. And I'm telling you, I've actually found guys with no history in firearms, they also have no bad habits. And so you're building them on a clean foundation they can build off of. So I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have to be comfortable around firearms by any means, but I'm also saying it's not the end all be all at the same time.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Whether you knew it or not. What a. What a great. Especially with the war coming up, it's a great asset to have being the combo guy. There's. There's two things a team will always need to go outside the wire.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yep.

[Brent Tucker]

Kamo and medics.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yes, that's right.

[Brent Tucker]

And. And of those two combos, more important, you have to have combo. You have to have combo. So I don't know. I'll, I'll. It's. It's not a. It's not a sexy job. You know, it's nerd work. It's, it's. It can be frustrating at times when combo doesn't work. You're doing everything right. But, man, what a. What a. What a resource to have, especially as a new guy. It makes you invaluable. You have to prove yourself. Like, you have to give them a reason to take you.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Tell me about it. It's pretty funny, Drew. I'm going to tell you something else. So I was born with a cleft palate, and I was very in school. My grand Greatest fear was reading out loud.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Right. And so one of the things that would happen for me is I was. Sometimes I could be extremely like, antisocial I guess, in a way.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And they picked up on it. And I don't know if that's one of the reasons why they made me a calm guy, but it, it did me such a service. And again, it was a hard lesson for me because here's the thing about a calm guy. One, you have to really know what's going on. Two is every exercise, every op, every FTX has to have a complaint, right? And you have to brief that complain and then you have to brief it back. Now all of a sudden I get, I get, get up in front of a bunch of guys and I gotta talk now. In the beginning, man, I was, I was not good. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

But that's, again, that's, those are. And it always sucks to see someone else seem like it doesn't bother them and them knocking out of the park right away. But knowing from being on the teams for most of my career, those are pressures you put on yourself. And a lot of times we put a lot of pressures on ourself that aren't there. That's not a bad thing. That's what pushes you to continue to get better. But I've, I've never had a new guy brief and, you know, saw him nervous and kind of stumbling, you know, at the beginning and ever and ever thought to myself as the leader and be like, all right, well, you're not going to be here long. That's what I expect. I expect you to be nervous. I expect you to screw this up. But what I also expect is for, for you to get better. It goes back to the. It's not about making a mistake. It's not making the same mistakes twice. It's continuing to, to grow. So it's, it's, it's always funny that every new guy does that to some degree. When you get to Team eight, one of, one of, one of your trips was to Iraq. I just want to talk about that real quick. What year was that?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

2004. 2005.

[Brent Tucker]

That 2004, 2000 time, time frame is right there on the cusp of, of the surge and, and the time of, of Iraq really starting to spiral down and Special Operations answering that and, and being the, the answer to that problem. Where'd you guys go on that deployment?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So one of the things they did was, is kind of interesting in 2004, 2005, originally it was damn seal team 6 guys who guarded the top dignitaries, PSD personal security details in Iraq and Afghanistan. They passed that off to the vanilla teams, like. Like me at 8. Yeah. So we had Burnham Salah. At the time, he was a deputy, the interim deputy Prime Minister. Now the vanilla team guys like myself, we guarded the top four dignitaries in Iraq and Afghanistan. But one of the cool things about it was that we were also monitoring everything they did. So not only we're protecting them, but. But monitoring everything they did. And like agency guys would pop in there and talk to my OIC every once in a while and things like that. So even though I was just a door kicker, I could see some of that. And then the other thing I saw too is I saw like some of the PR stuff they were trying to do in some ways, you know, because a lot of places there got beat up. And so there was like a lot of rebuilding projects and things like that. And they would go and then he would meet with like, different stakeholders out there.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so a lot of. A lot of stuff that I experienced was basically Baghdad and south, like, so Baghdad Al Nazaria, Najaf Sim Al Simawa. I might make permits pronunciation. But basically that's where I. Where we worked out of. And I think a lot of it had to do was because that's where our guy was basically meeting with different. Now, some of this stuff was pretty wild, like going into job because Al Shustani was basically the head cleric over there. They chased. They had. Remember back then in 2004, they had Metakar Al Sadara surrounded in Ali Aman shrine in a big graveyard there. And one of the things I saw there too was I saw the power. And I think it was in Samoa. Is they. That local Iraqi guys were saying, we have security. Okay. And I forget who it was. I don't know if it was Mr. Chief or the LPO. And it kind of has passed two of the platoons together. And one of the things, of course we're saying, no, we have security. No, we have security. He's not going to know we have security. So we're doing. Because one of the things I would do sometimes is I would be like. We had this guy named Steven Redbow at the time, he was a renowned sniper, but he was kind of more low profile. He's actually a Sioux Indian.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I had. I did some. So we were to kind of do like this RNS stuff. And sometimes back in the day, like Falcon View gps. Yeah. Just to get like grid points and kind of give an assessment of where Our, our guy was going to go, okay. And so in this particular circumstances, you know, we have this argument with our platoon and these Iraqi guys on who's got security. Well, it became very clear who's got security because we're like all over the desert here and there. And I don't know, every, I want to say every half a mile, maybe less, like two guys on the road, and I'm saying for miles, our whole route.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And it was such a flex.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You know, and it's like, all right, this is this guy's town. And that's like one of the things I learned. And you probably know more than me, like when I was in the job, like, they had. The mayor had his own militia. Yeah. Like, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

But it's one of those things that they will, they will do that every now and again and be right. They'll also do that every now and again and be wrong because they, at times, they, they, they are proud people, but sometimes they'll let that pride get in the way. And that pride will, will do two things. It'll either cause them to actually have security, which is a good thing, you know, about that. And the other, the other thing is they won't be on because they're so proudful. It won't allow them to be honest with you when they don't have it, and they'll still say they got it when they don't. So it's one of those great times to trust but verify. You got it. All right, let me, let me, let me see if you got it. Because then the day the security falls on you guys, so he can say he has it all he wants, but if security falls, the military is going to come get answers from him.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's right. That's right.

[Brent Tucker]

Your leadership. So it's gonna have to answer for it. That's right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

What, what'd you think overall, you know, of, of that deployment? You were a pre 911 seal. You know, war wasn't even, you know, necessarily, I'm sure. I mean, you're a Navy seal, so it's, it's something that's a possibility, but now, now becomes a reality and you go over there and you get to see it firsthand. What, what did you think of the Iraq war and, and how the, the process, if you will, worked. Well, I didn't work. Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

No, it's, it's a great shame.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

One of the things I, you know, I'm from New Jersey and so I grew up around New York City.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so after 9, 11. You know, I was a brand new seal when that happened. And so, you know, I was, I was against a jihad ideology. And I'll. I'll be that way to the day I die. Now, one of the things, when I look at Iraq, it's funny because I remember a lot of guys, here's the truth. We believed in it. Yeah. I didn't know about. I was a first respondent to two suicide bombings. Right. And after that happened, I didn't know about weapons of mass destruction or things of that. I didn't need to. I had the things I saw and heard that. That was enough for me. And, and, but we believed in it. The guys, the guys, as I recall and remember, guys were investing a shit ton of money in dinars.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Because they thought, look, it's just, it's got a state, it's got a stable resource. We can stabilize this. Yeah, the guys really believed in it. And you know, it's funny, like, like I, when you talk about security, I remember hearing something like some, Somebody reached out and they said, hey, because they were related to the administration we were working with over there. And like, hey, we're being followed or upset. We're worried about it. And I think it was one of my, like, brother cartoons. And they wanted to go help, they wanted to give security, but they said, no, they said, your operation, what you're doing right now is too important. And then they got shot up and the guys were taking pictures and they were all upset because they wanted to help. And these people just got, you know, lit up. But. So what do I think about it? One, Is any, any insurgency, any successful insurgency throughout history, including our own, you have outside support, Right? Right. And I think, look, Iran right next door, all the Sunni jihadists, I don't know. And it's just, I don't know, like, how we hold it to change it. But what I do know is this. When I was there in 2004, 2005, it's the first time women have ever voted there. People forget about that. Yeah, we help make that happen. And you know something else? I remember driving and it'd be hot. It would be hot as monkey balls. And women be out there in their ninja suits, right? And I'm like, Jesus Christ. Like, that's how they live. And I was like, I felt sorry for them.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so part of me. And you look at what happened. I'm not an Afghanistan vet, right? But you look what's happened there and the beautiful Americans that put in life and blood and to do what they could to make a difference for humanity. And now it's like, yeah, yeah, it's

[Brent Tucker]

what a, what a stark contrast between two wars that happened at the same time. And it might be too early and some people may not like the way or the word I'm going to use, but I don't care. Iraq is currently a success. It's, there's, it's not, it's not controlled by extreme Islam, terrorists, women can vote. There's, they're a part of, you know, of, of a, of a broader society. There's, there's no longer chemical weapons being tested on, on their own people. Like the time Saddam put, put mustard gas on the Kurds.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I feel sorry for the Kurds.

[Brent Tucker]

I feel sorry for the Kurds. There is, there is stabilization in the region because of, because of Iraq. So. But the same cannot be said about Afghanistan. Obviously that was a political disaster is what not a military disaster. That was a political disaster. And this isn't the point of the podcast but as veterans and war veterans, we get a say. We get a say in it. And it was so bad. And nobody, nobody paid the price for that.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You're right.

[Brent Tucker]

They humiliated us on a world stage and not one general paid the price for that.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

How do you, you know, it's funny when you think of how the experience and their resources and assets available to the Pentagon and yet you look at what some of the decisions they've made and Afghanistan and you literally give millions of dollars, maybe even billions of dollars of military equipment to jihadists and you decide to give up the key airport before withdrawal.

[Brent Tucker]

It makes no sense.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It's almost like it was intentional. It's. It ever feel like your brain just won't click? Onnit Alpha Brain is a daily supplement engineered to support memory, memory, focus and mental speed. Made with science backed ingredients on it, Alpha Brain helps you lock in, tune out distractions and stay sharp. See what your brain can really do. Visit onnit.com and shop Alpha Brain to unlock your next level. That's o n n I-t.com.

[Brent Tucker]

I don't, I don't think it was intentional. I just think that's how, how, how bad that administration was.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I'm not going to argue with you there. You know one of the things I. Who is that? Was it the Marine that stood up? He was the one of the only. I think his name is. He made a post and he basically he. I'm so embarrassed. I don't. I forget his name.

[Brent Tucker]

I think I know what you're Talking about though, put it on social media. Him in his uniform.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

An officer.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And you know, spoke out, which was really unique. And, and, and what he did, what courage.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It cost him. It cost him his career.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, it. That, that it did. But he. That he was a whistleblower.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

He did the right thing. He called him out.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And you know what the. And I. That's an example to me, you know, in the. I'll tell you a time that I made a mistake in the. In. In Iraq. So this was one of the first. Like they. They thought they might have had Sir Cowie in a compound and they. They had UAVs above. They knew they had bad guys on scene right now what they were. They're doing Wagon Wheels above. And they. But they were cautious because they said that grow criteria. And I thought that was. This was always really weird was three white Suburbans. I apparently that's what. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense to me. But that's at least the feedback. As I recall now. I was kind of excited, right? And my platoon was kind of excited, but my platoon week. And this was going to be like the only like, day thing ever, right? And so we're in a circle. Like, guys, do we get in a circle? We're talking about it. And one of the guys. And he was actually a Marine before he came in. He got out. He was a Marine. 9, 11 happened. He came back in. But now he became a team guy.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And he was. He was a little older than me and he was. He was a smart guy. And basically he kind of raised. We called. We call it raising a bullshit flag, right? And he's like, hey, like, how are we going to get in there? And the talk. The way they were going to talk was we'll do a distraction charge from the back and then we'd like have these ladders and we'll come up the wall in the front. And he's like. Because we look like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you know, all jacked up, you know, and he's like, we're going to get pinged. We're going to get ping coming over this wall. And. And at. At first I was supporting like, let's go in. And it never happened. They never cleared it. But he had the balls to speak up. And what happened is when he did that, other guys were like, he's right.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's funny. It was the. Again, just referencing the. The Jimmy Watson episode. We were just talking about you. It only takes one person to quit sometimes. And then, then 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 people decide to quit.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yep.

[Brent Tucker]

But on the same token, sometimes it only takes one person to, to stay strong and be like, you know what, guys, this, this isn't that bad. We're having the time of our lives. They're paying us to work out like it's, you know, what, whatever the, you know, there's always that one guy that, that always, that's always in a good mood. No matter how bad, everything changes. Everything.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And same thing with that. Sometimes it only takes one. Just along that same thought process, it only takes one guy to speak up. And then the other people who probably were thinking, but they just weren't courageous enough to say something. It takes one person. The other guy's like, yeah, actually that's, that's right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I think the Marines officer who spoke up, who had the courage when no one else did, I think his name was Stuart. I don't forget his last name. But that guy had courage to stand. It cost him his career, but he did the right thing.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. If you've ever been to any of my tactical training classes, then you know how adamant I am about the use of white light and the importance of a quality high powered tactical light. That's why I use cloud defensive tac lights. You can't hit what you can't see and neither can the bad guys. Clearly identify your target and simultaneously overwhelm his vision with hundreds of, and even thousands of lumens. Get serious about defending yourself and your family. Go to clouddefensive.com and use promo code tier one to get 30% off your order. That's right, 30%. You won't find a better light than this and you won't find a better deal than this. Yeah. And when it comes to, you know, the, the team guy, former Marine that, that stood up as always. It's, it's not, it's usually not what you say, it's how you say it. So you can absolutely stand up to authority in a very respectful way, you know, and, and, and get away with it. You can, you can question other team guys and it not. And not have any, you know, repercussions from it, depending on how you do it.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's true.

[Brent Tucker]

So it's not always what you say, it's how you say it. The. When you get back from this trip, I believe not, not too much longer after that, you, you decide to switch professions.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's. Well, not a, that's why what happened. But I think originally for me, I was like, you know, at eight years, three deployments, I thought, let me, let me kind of cut loose for a bit.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Let me level up my education and pop back in.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's kind of what I was feeling.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But once I got this school, I kind of fell in love with school and you know, it's just like you start talking to a girl, all of a sudden you're taking her out.

[Brent Tucker]

That, that's something that really interests me. Because when we think about higher education and going to college, of course the, to, to paint it with broad strokes is a lot of 18 to 21 year old young men and women, very young men and women who are easily, easily swayed, you know, easily manipulated is the one I, I want to use

[Bill Brown Jr.]

100% but, but intentionally so.

[Brent Tucker]

But it's also, it's, I also don't not want to use that word because there's plenty of, plenty of, I believe, examples you, you could prove, you could prove that. But here you are as a Navy seal, combat veteran, experience under your belt. You're, you're not the normal student. Tell me about just that, that experience.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Do you ever see that movie with Adam Sandler and he's like, got to start from like kindergarten all the way up.

[Brent Tucker]

I was, I was just watching it. The other I was, was that get my tattoos redone. And they were, they were watching it. Happy, Happy Gilmore.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I think that's it.

[Brent Tucker]

No, Happy Gilmore was the, the golfing one. I know exactly which one you're talking about. Kills me. Just watched it.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Well, that's exact, that initially that's really how I felt. I felt at first I had to go to a community college.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I got a bunch of 18 year old kids, 19 year old kids, not bad kids by any stretch, but they're kids. And you got these pretty very left professors, you know. And I think one of the things that happened was what's kind of cool was I met a couple other veterans and we kind of became friends. We started carpooling because they were, to be honest with you, they were army guys.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But they were the closest thing that I had, you know, in, in Southern Jersey at the time. And so how was that experience? One was when you're in, when you're in an elite combat unit, right. You're with a bunch of stellar performers, really dedicated guys. And it's, and it's hard to take what people don't understand who've never experienced that is your whole life is dedicated to that.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so what happens is when you take that away and now you're just with regular Americans to be sincere, especially 18 year old kids.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

My dedication level and just half ass and things was I was easy to like and. Yeah. And the other thing is. And this is. Look, I believe in a couple of things. I really believe in adventure therapy. I think guys who've been down range, guys who've been in elite units. The way we're going to transition is not going to be the same way. Think every time you jump out of airplane is adrenaline rush.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Like every time there's so many things that we're just kind of become a we. And so we need those adventures. Yeah. And so that's why I do these patriotic events. But for me, the other thing is when I was going to college, it kept my mind positive. It kept my mind positive and like I got. You know what it is? I had a goal.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah. And my thing, if I would have a message for any guys coming out of some serious units, get your ass to college kids because it's just going to keep your mind busy. You're going to redefine yourself. And now here's something else. It destroyed my marriage.

[Brent Tucker]

Really?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah. Because being it being a guy who's, you know, in a college campus like that. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. I could see, I would see the, I was weak. The temptations.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah, it's there.

[Brent Tucker]

It's. It's there. Where'd you go to school at?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I went first I went to Burlington County College.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And then I went to Ruckers and then I went to Rucker's Law.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. The. When did it occur to you that you wanted to go focus on law? Because like you said, you, you, your initial plan was probably to go wait a little bit and come back and I'm assuming feel like a safe assumption once you go down the law route there you can't do both. You've. You've decided to go a different path.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You're right. So what happened was I wanted to initially be a police officer. So I got an associate's degree. I did as good as you could possibly get with my gpa. I got a small scholarship in the Rutgers. And so I was just going to get a BA in criminal justice.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But I had to take a con law. Con law class and I had this professor named Alan Tarr and in this class and he was a really good professor, the decorum and I. And that's when I really fell in love with the ideas of our country in the Constitution. Like the way it's engineered how the different branches offset each other. Right. They compete for power or the end. And the most beautiful thing in, like, the Bill of Rights is that the individual's rights are sacred. That's so beautiful to me.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Due process, freedom of speech, to write, to protect yourself. These are beautiful ideas. They're beautiful then, and they're beautiful now. And I think how our country's taking these great measures to meet those ideas. I love our country. I love what our country's accomplished. And that's what happened was it's just like when you train with somebody, you kind of get to know them, and we all are like dogs. We kind of sense each other out of it. And in that class, I realized, like, these guys were all gearing up to go to law school, and I was like, you know what? Let me give it a shot.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Did. Did it intimidate you at all? You know, everyone talks about the bar, you know, how. How difficult it is, how difficult it is. The past. Clearly a much different challenge mentally than. Than going to be a police officer. Because, I mean, let's be honest, coming from the SEAL community that you were. You were going to easily become a police officer, you could have gone to swat, you could have done whatever you wanted there. Do you feel like that was a different. A challenge to you, or is it not. Not something you ever considered being an issue that you. You knew you were going to get it if you wanted.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Was absolutely a challenge, and it was. Wasn't something I initially set out to do. Yeah, I literally won.

[Brent Tucker]

I.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You know, sometimes guys peak at the right time. Some, like professional fighters, when they train, the goal is to peak right when you're going to fight. Right? Right. And some guys peak at the wrong time. For me, initially, I fell in love with learning, and I peaked in undergrad, which gave me really. And I became a veterans advocate. There's.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

When I. And one of the things that I got humbled and, you know, to be. There's some big lessons in. In buds and even in SEAL teams, I. I was a little cocky, and I got some real humbling experiences. Right. And the same thing here. But here I wasn't cocky objectively, externally. Here I was cocky internally. And what I meant by that was I wasn't missing, focused. I wasn't frontside focused on my mission.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I was out there being a veterans advocate doing all these other things, and I thought it would have the same type of time requirement as it did in undergrad. There's a distinction, and it's Almost like a distinction, I imagine probably being in a tier one unit is what happens is in law school, everybody there is pretty bright. You don't get into law school. The LSATs are a pretty good filters, okay? And now everything's graded on a curve. That means there's only a select number of A's, a select number of B's, and someone's taking a hit in every class. I. I didn't go in there with the. So the first year, I got. I got knocked up a bit.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But then what happens? You know, like, it's like, holy. It's like, all right, and here's the thing. As long as I'm still there, as long as I'm still there, you know? And that's kind of what happened. And then it's like. And here's the other thing. As long as you're in. And here's one of. Sometimes it's like when I was going through BUDS or a Hell Week, I was like, all right, just let me make it to the next meal, right? Or the next evolution or the next day. There was a part of me at law school that was like, it, all right, just let me make it through this semester. I made it through the semester.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

My GPA is right on that curve where they're gonna boot me.

[Brent Tucker]

How. How long is. How long is law school normally?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It's three years. It took me about four.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. Yeah, I just have questions. It's just. I don't know anything about it. How far in law school do you. Or initially were where you choose, what your focus is in law school?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

After the. After the first year. Okay. And. And so the first year is like the. It's the first phase of buds. That's. If you make it through the first year, chances are you. You're going to. You're going to make it through.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. Yeah. What. What. What focus did you choose?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I. I just. I want to do commercial litigation. So, like, contractual disputes, collections. I like that. Because I'm not a family law guy.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It's just. To me, it's just too emotional. Yeah. And then two, to think. And I'm not a criminal guy because, one, it's just not my thing. You know, I just. It's just not. That's just not my thing. I. Every once in a while, I'll take on, like, a crimp. If it's got. If it's a friend, okay. And he needs somebody that he trusts, I'll take it. But most of the time, I steer away from it. To me, it's like, look, did you sign the contract? All right. What's your payment history say? All right. It's not like, it's not personal. That's why, that's what I geared up for first.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. More black and white. I tell you, I don't, I just, I couldn't imagine being a lawyer and having to defend a criminal that you know is guilty. But it's your, but it's your job and I get it. Like, that is, that is our system. Like, it's. Someone has to defend that person. But, man, could you just being asked to do that.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I gotta tell you something. And I'm, I'm very embarrassed and I. Sometimes I have a hard time looking at myself in the mirror for this. But my last law firm, I was a commercial litigator and I was in a commercial litigation bankruptcy practice group.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But one of the things they tried to do because they were, they had a. They promoted blm. They promoted, you know, a lot of their anti Trump and a lot of their posts. And I, I had a difference of perspective.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I had a pretty large LinkedIn following within a professional legal community. They, you know, they literally made a social media policy when I was there, and they really tried, in my opinion, tried to muzzle me. And I didn't want to be muzzled because I, I love our country and I totally disagree with the intolerant ideologies of cancel culture. Like.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so one of the things I did to try to, in my opinion, to kind of get me to go as they assigned me all these child molestation cases for the Catholic Church where I literally would have to represent the Catholic Church, and, and I'm embarrassed that I did it. And I, I did, though. And one of the, the reasoning why was in the legal community to get bonuses. Everything's based on your hours.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so your billable hours. Right. Because it's a business.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

The more hours you build, the more they make money. In this case, they stopped assigning me commercial litigation work and they all signed me this.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Now, I complained about it verbally and emails multiple times, but.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But I learned some lessons from that. Well, number one, I wish I would have had the courage not to take those cases, but the fact patterns I saw repeatedly was these great steps that the Catholic Church did that keep these. A lot of times they weren't kids anymore. They were adults now. Silent.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so, like, the most important thing is not to be silent. And to me, they won no matter what. If they won, the Case or not, they won because they spoke up about it.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I think that. Stu. I forget. The Marine veteran who spoke up about Afghanistan. Stu. Something I forget. He won because everybody knew he was right. Yeah, everybody.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And all those other generals who never spoke up, all those military strategists and intellectuals in the Pentagon who bent a knee. Let's be honest. The leadership in the SEAL community that ben a knee. They. Ben a knee.

[Brent Tucker]

The leadership. The military bent the knee. Yeah. We had, we had our joint Chief of staff, General Millie, in front of Congress say, hey, I'm trying to understand my, my white privilege or, or, you know, how, how bad he felt about being white and trying to come to grips with that. Are you kidding me? That's has no place in the military. And I don't. This is why. I don't understand. I just don't. I used to think that corporate America. And this is why I, I do love capital capitalism.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Right?

[Brent Tucker]

But. But not, not everything's perfect. I used to naively think I've been proven wrong over these last few years, that capitalism for the most part, is indifferent. And they don't care about black or white or politically red or blue. They only care about green.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's the way it should be.

[Brent Tucker]

This way should be. That's because you're. You're a corporation. You're a business. Your job is to make money. Your job is to provide for everyone who, who works for you so they can provide for their families. But they have chosen political stances that just don't make any sense. Bud Light paying the price for that. I believe the NFL is about to pay the price for having Bad Bunny at, at the halftime show that, that nobody, that nobody wanted that in their core base. I don't understand. I don't understand why. Why law firms want, want to promote or stand with blm, who has proven to show nothing but chaos and violence throughout this country. Just make no stance at all. I don't understand why.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You know, it's hard to understand what it is. A lot of it is weakness. It's cowardice. It's a lot of it. Because I think a lot of attorneys are, are intelligent and they can see the broad picture. Like, we believe in diversity, but we believe in diversity of merit, diversity of character, diversity of thought.

[Brent Tucker]

Right?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Right. Look, it doesn't take rocket scientists to realize when BOM has like $2 billion worth of damage and 24Americans died that something's wrong there. But yet you have a powerful law firm. My previous law firm, McCarthy English, that's going to promote that, and then at the same time, they're going to try to use selective enforcement of their social media policies to negate my right to free speech.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Right. So they want to promote one thing and then they want to step on another.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so to me, I am so glad that I said I had enough. And I think the real reason why I stood up and just refused to kind of check it is because what they did to me, the truth is by giving. And this is, I'll never forgive them, no matter what. When they assigned me all these child sexual molestation cases.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

When I'm a commercial litigator, they put my nose in shit.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I'll never forgive them. And you know what? I'm glad I sued them and I'm glad I'm speaking up about it. And because the one mistake they did, but the lesson they thought they were going to teach me, it's not the lesson I learned. I learned from those victims who, who stood up.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And now, unfortunately for me, I have to be honest with myself, you know, because I define myself as a protector. I think men and women who serve in our country are protectors, and I define myself as a protector. But here I was not a protector. And it, psychologically, it messes me up a bit.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I can, I can see that. And I can understand that. I want to, I want to dig into that a little bit, what you said. And as far as them trying to silence you and things that they promoted. Tell us about, I guess, emails that, that they had put out. And then you questioned why they're not putting out emails about nine, 11, you know, take us down that road a little, you know, be. Dig into that aspect of it.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Right. So they had a pretty robust DNI committee and a social justice project. And to be honest, I, I really didn't have an issue with it because I, you know, it's okay for people to be proud. It's okay for, you know. And you know what? I'll be honest with you. I'm proud that I'm a white man. I love who I am. I love who my family is. I love who my children are. Like, I'm. I'm proud of who I am. I don't have an issue with it. I don't have an issue with gays or lesbians. I. What consenting adults do. I could care less. I do have an issue when you're trying to sexualize kids and push it an agenda that, to be honest with you, you know, I believe who Am I to say what consenting adults do, but let my. Let our kids figure that out on their own?

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I don't, to be honest, I got a. I got a baby girl. I don't. I don't think she should have to compete against biological males. I think it's not right. I don't think there should be biological males in the bathrooms. I don't think that makes me a bigot.

[Brent Tucker]

No. In fact, I'll. I'll. I'll say it a little bit different. I'll remove the word think and replace it with no. I know there shouldn't. I have three little girls. I know there shouldn't be a man masquerading as a. As a female in the bathroom with my little girls. I know for a fact there shouldn't be a man on the sports team masquerading as a female playing with them.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

100% know it. 100. And I'll tell you something else. You're not alone. Remember. Remember all those parents who were speaking up about those board meetings? Now this is how scary things got. People forget the FBI labeled them domestic terrorists. Like, that's crazy.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You want to talk about a chilling effect.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You want to talk about trying to deter free speech, about families just trying to look out for their daughters or their kids? Like that happened. You want to talk about lawfare. Like, to me, when you look about what was. As an attorney, when I look about what's the greatest threat to democracy our nation's ever faced, the truth is, in my opinion, was these. The political lawfare prosecutions by these political hack federal and state prosecutors that literally tried to remove President Trump off the ballot, tried to put him in jail and tried to bankrupt some bank like that, tried to subvert. We the people, decide who we want to be to be our president.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. It was. It was disgusting. That's. It's actually the. The word I want to use. It's a strong word, but that's exactly what it is.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah. And you. And you know what? Here's the thing. All those bar associations, all those big law firms, none of them spoke up here. You had the legal community, the legal community tried to upend democracy. The right. The. The right to men and women to vote, decide who we want to be our elected officials by political prosecutions. And these big legal communities, the biggest. The biggest law firms, the biggest bar associations, all the law schools, they were asleep at the wheel.

[Brent Tucker]

Why do you think that is? There's. There's one of the biggest law firms in the Countries here, I don't even want to say their name is here. And but Drew, you'll know exactly who it is. Massive Democratic voter, a donor. Some of our, some of our largest law lawyer producing schools. Lean, far left.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

What, what is it about the law community that just judging by, by kind of, by what you're saying, like this happened, no one spoke up for it. So I, I'm deducting that if they didn't speak up for it, well, they're either scared or they agree with it. Does the law community as a whole, do you believe leans left 100% and if so, why?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It leans much further left than the average American can begin to understand. And right now we have a majority on a Supreme Court, but at the majority of many of the lower level courts, that's not the case. All the big law firms far left, all the big law schools far left. How did it happen? Well, it's the same way kind of academia happened. What happened is you had, once you get leadership, then what happens is what happened to me, in my opinion, they tried to purge me. Right. And that's what happens. Make an example. Purge and you get submissive. And now what happens is I literally had a debate on LinkedIn because basically the last couple days, and it's about these big elite universities and how they rake in, you know what their endowments. Millions, billions of dollars, but yet there's few, like some of the wealthiest, wealthiest institutions on our country, academic in a nation, a planet where they literally only have 14 veterans students. And yet like we're talking about Harvard, right? And, and literally I have a veteran there. I have a veteran, I think she went to Thomas, she goes to Thomas Jefferson Law School and she makes a comment to me and rebuttal. She doesn't use any type of case law. She says I have it better than most, I should stop complaining. And here I am trying to advocate for veterans to be recruited and sought after. And he's elite universities, right. And what does she do? She's virtually singling because she's at, she's at a liberal law school. She's virtually signaling, punching down another veteran who's trying to advocate for more veterans.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's how bad it is. And so how do we change it? The first thing you do is what I'm trying to do. Like one of the things you said earlier, logic and reasoning. How is it that you have diverted millions and millions and millions of dollars for these DNI projects. How is it that you have billions of dollars in endowments but yet you have so few veterans at these elite universities. Right. Something's wrong.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And the. It be the truth. Veterans have been an afterthought. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, if you, if you think about it through, through, through this lens, it is a travesty because everyone else who's going to receive benefits through these, you know, through these DNI initiatives are literally just getting these benefits because of the way they were born. They were just born with a skin color or they were born geographically, something that they really have nothing to do with. They get a benefit from. But if we're going to reward veterans now, veterans a status, but that's, it's a status you earned. You weren't born into that. That's something you worked for.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

Especially in our generation, you didn't just go through the initiation process, the, the hard work of becoming a veteran. You also served and put everything on the line. Absolutely. We should. That it's different. Just kind of want to just kind of verbalize. What I'm trying to say is. But I wouldn't even put them in the same category like they, they deserve equal, you know, opportunity as these other minority groups.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's right.

[Brent Tucker]

They don't because they earn something. They actually, they actually deserve a higher status, 100%.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You know, one of the, and by the way, veterans are diverse in every way, right. Politics or race or religion.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You know, one of the things I think about is, I think about Alexander the Great. One of the things about Alexander the Great was if you served with him, you didn't have to pay taxes. Right? Not a bad idea.

[Brent Tucker]

Not a bad idea.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Not a bad idea. Because what happens is like, you know, we're such. When a veteran comes home, what happens his local community. You've been away serving. Now you haven't been building the same type of local networks that are going to help you start a business, you know, that are, you know, this support system because you've been out serving. And so they forget about all that. And so what happens is there's only. Here's the truth. I can tell you about something that happened recently to me. So with my, my lawsuit against McCarter and Inglis, there's a law called the New Jersey Law Against Discrimination, and it included 23 protected classes. Every minority group you can think of, if you're gay, lesbian, all that include even haircuts. If you were discriminated employment based on your ha. Haircut, you were in one of those 23 protected classes.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Veterans weren't. And so they were able in a Motion to dismiss. Able to dismiss two thirds of my complaint. So what did I do? I organized. Literally, I wrote emails to every state legislator. I explained what happened. I met with them. I spoke at political events, I spoke at veteran patriotic events, and I organized a parade for veterans. Now, one of the things that happened was the New Jersey State Senator and the New Jersey president, Assembly president. There was these two amendments and they were not moving anywhere. And all they had to do is put those amendments on a floor for a vote. And guess what? Veterans would have been included.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And so I, I organized this parade and I have a friend of mine make a sign. And it basically a bunch of signs. And one of the couple of the signs, it had this Senate president, like he's sitting on a toilet with his pants down, got his face on there, and assembly speaker and says, stop sitting on these bills. Do rights for veterans. Right. I had a bunch of veteran leaders in New Jersey who I respect tell me I was going about it the wrong way. I said, look, the kissing butt tactic ain't working.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

We got to put some heat on it. Yeah, but they'd never seen en march like that. They've never seen a march like that in New Jersey. And now guess what? The bill recently passed. Now, no law firm, no employer in a and in New Jersey can ever use that argument. Because guess what? Now veterans are a protected class. And you know what it reminds me of? Reminds me of that revolutionary flag where they have this rattlesnake and it says, don't tread on me.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

By being on a protected class, basically you're telling employers, don't fuck, don't mess with me. Yeah, don't mess with me because I'm a protected class. Right now we got, we have the same protections as other veterans, and it's the same thing. Like what, what Pete Hegg says, you know, a good leader sometimes has the courage to say the hard thing when it's not easy. Right. He was one of the first people out there calling out these, you know, the woke ideology that infested the military.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And, and, and, and Trump, President Trump decided he wants to make him a nominee. And I, you know, here's one of the things I like about Pete. So I'm putting a swim together, you know, and it's their first, the New York City Seal swim. And I got it. I got a conference call with all the supporting assets, with the Port Authority, NYPD at the NY ngsp, the Coast Guard. I got all my tides and currents like a dive. I got all that stuff ready?

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I. Because I got to sell it to them, you know?

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I think that's who I have to sell it to. But initially, everybody thought it'd be logistically impossible, but the leadership then was all around during 9 11, so they helped me. All of a sudden, Pete Hegseth is on the phone. He's like, this is Pete from Fox News. And he starts asking me about the questions about the swim.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I was ready, right? And then all of a sudden I find out like a week or two later that he's going to do the swim. Now, here's the truth. He's not the best swimmer, but here's also the truth, man. He had balls.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And he had. The other thing he had is he had vision because this was just a swim at the time. It's just 33 seals. Right? And then Pete Hegseth. But he brought Fox News. And what they did is they sent that patriotic message for our whole country to see a bunch of guys running into the World Trade center ground zero, waving American flags, loving our country, showing that we love this country, that were a great country, that we're proud of her. That's what he did. That's how. And so. And then he helped support the event for a bunch of years. So when I found out he was speaking up against a woke ideology and that infested the military. And after what happened in Afghanistan, and I found out, you know, like, you know, I was like, you know what? He, he. He went to bat for me. So I arranged up a bunch of seals and veterans, and we went to bat for him when his nomination looked like it might have been, you know, on the edge.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And one of the things, you know, as far as, like, the media, we called it Operation Full Court Press. We had the media blitz. We had a press conference stacked the committee room full of veterans. He got greeted to a USA chant when he went into the lion's den, let it led a March through Washington D.C. i had four Navy Seal Congress with me then. Eli Crane, Morgan Luttrell, John McGuire, and Derek Von Orden.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And we held the moral high ground. You know how what we were talking about earlier, about being the adults in the room, Right. We didn't. We had signs, veterans for exits, bunch of American flags. We stopped for traffic. We let traffic go. When people were coming by, we let them. We got out of the way so they could walk by. Everybody knew we were there, but we weren't, you know, Right? You.

[Brent Tucker]

You weren't. You weren't you weren't negatively impacting the community. And I don't understand why the other side doesn't understand that. You can demonstrate without. Without negatively impacting everyone around you. Everyone else has to suffer because you're upset about an issue, but it doesn't

[Bill Brown Jr.]

have to be that way because it's not. Their intent's different than ours.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Our intent is what you were saying earlier, Logic and reason. Yeah, right. Debate. Open debate. Here's my reasons. Here's my logic. Theirs is intimidation.

[Brent Tucker]

It is, it is. Which is really funny that they always call us the, the fascists with the brown shirts when that's. That's, that's very brown shirt activity of you.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's right.

[Brent Tucker]

The. The swim. Want to talk to you about the swim real quick. How. How far is that swim?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So it's as the crow flies, to swim would be 3.2. But an open water. A lot of. You know how you guide has a big. Yeah, that's right.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Now we swim to the Statue of Liberty and there we. And by the way, I have this book and I want to give you. It's a New York City seal swim Adventure Therapy. And it's just a picture book, but Modesty publishing is getting ready to put it out there. But what it does is it sends a positive patriotic message of unity for our country.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And what we do is we lead by example, you know, by letting everybody know, look, when you get a bunch of veterans that are going to swim across one of the most dangerous and dirtiest rivers in the nation from all across the country to help other veterans help other gold stars, it sends a message of the character, really the average. What the war fighter is really like, what the war fighter is really about. And I really believe in adventure therapy. Like, I love doing patriotic events where I get to work out, I get to go for a run or a swim or go hiking with a bunch of other good guys, to me, that's what works for me. Different things work for different guys, but this is what does it for me. Now, the other thing about this whim, it's a tactical hit.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And here's the reason why. New York City has 8 million people. It's one of the financial capitals of our country. And here's the big hit. It's basically the media capital of our country. So when you get a bunch of war fighters together that are going to do something like this, you're going to get media attention, which helps us send that message.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And at the same time is. I noticed you, you know, you show me you have the Twin towers on, you know, tattooed on you, right? You want the war for our country. You want the war because jihadists attack and killed over 2,000, 2,977Americans. You, you want the war to protect us from that and to hold those accountable. Right?

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Now, one of the things. And look at the Statue of Liberty on your shirt now. One of the things and what she stands for, right? So we do a. We do 100 push ups and 22 pull ups at the barge that we have drilled in, right off the perimeter zone of the Statue of Liberty, right at Ellis island. We do 100 push ups, 22 pull ups to honor all the men and women that came for our country, for a better life. And to celebrate our nation's diversity. We run into the World Trade Center. The papd, NYPD Pipers are playing for us as we go in. We got American flags, real high.

[Brent Tucker]

See that? I love it.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

At the first responders statute, which is in the World Trade Center. I want to explain it to you.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You ever hear the. I forget it's called the Horse Soldier. It's a whiskey.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Well, those are the guys who were. They were. I'm not sure if they army or not or I'm not, but they were JTACs.

[Brent Tucker]

Yep. They were Green Berets.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Green Berets. They worked with the Northern Alliance, Right. To pull back the Taliban and Arcadia. It was brilliant. Right. They have a statue to honor those guys at the World Trade Center. And they were on horses, so we caught the horse. It's on a horse, guys. Got it. An M4 with a 203 and a pack to. Yeah, right. We do our last set of pull ups on our pull ups and push ups there. We do 100 push ups, 22 pull ups to honor all those lost on 911 and all those who put on the line for our country. It's a beautiful event and you know, I'm very proud of it. And it brings. And I can tell you this, it does raise a lot of money. But you know what, it does more for the guys who do it. And the other thing it does, it's very unique. Like I had. And so like you want, you went downrange for a country, but you probably never met anybody who lost a family member 911 or who survived 9 11. So at 911 at the World Trade center, ground zero. At the end, I get survivors or I get like firefighters who their dad was a firefighter killed. Like James Tadao. Right. Or Fred Ill. Both of Those guys are firefighters and their fathers were firefighters killed on 9 11. Like I get these guys to speak or like I had Malika Cruz speak. She was a 911 survivor. Okay. She was on a 9 95th floor when it got hit. And she only lived. You know how they say don't take an elevator because she took an elevator.

[Brent Tucker]

Really?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah. And what's kind of cool about it is guys like you who want the war for our country. Right. To protect us all, to hold their jihadists accountable. Now you get to meet the other side, those who lost family members because. Or those who survived and lost everybody they worked with. Right. And to me, that's part of the healing process. Right. It's something that makes it event very unique. Now sometimes, gotta be honest, at the end, guys are smoked, I bet. And sometimes some of the speakers are a little long winded. But you want to know what? I let them talk.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh yeah. How, how many people show up to. To the. How many years have you been. Have you been doing it?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Starting in 2019, so seven years la. This last year we had 323. But command and control at those numbers is. Is tough.

[Brent Tucker]

Gotta be hectic. So I'm probably that many people in the water. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

But we, we do a lot of things. I have a big vetting process.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Like I have two, two test swims. You got to send me proof of completion of a open water swim three miles or greater. We have a swimmer buoy that's orange.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So it's easy to track. It can double up as a life preserver.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I have electronic bracelets that guys have to wear at Statue Liberty, barge at Ellis Island. I get full headcounts, manual and electronic.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So we do everything we can to minimize risk. But yeah, 323 is too big. I'm thinking maybe 300. I did. I did 302 and 24. And I had no issues. Yeah, I might, I might stick at 300.

[Brent Tucker]

300 is a good round spartan number. Right. Where does, where does the money go that you guys raise?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's another. Another great question. So the first three years. No, the first four years it went to a group called GI Go Fund.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Now they're a group that does a lot of good things for veterans and New York and New Jersey. And then from 2020, 2023, it was CO partnered with the Navy SEAL foundation and called Uncommon Grit Foundation.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And then from 2024, 2025, it was with the Navy SEAL foundation, and this year is with the SEAL Legacy foundation and Beyond a Brotherhood.

[Brent Tucker]

When do you hold the event?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Same time every year or another great question. So I try to get it as close as I can to the anniversary of extort. Of extortion 17, which is August 11th. August 6th, 2011. But the tides and currents depend on everything. The other thing I try to do is I try to get it in the morning because I can maximize my time on Fox and Friends.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And also because there's less commercial traffic in the Hudson.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So right now the date is because at Liberty State park they have the World cup in New Jersey, actually. And so they want me to have it on the 29th. I have three possible dates. As I looked at the tides and currents. I have the 1st, the 15th and the 29th.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

The issue with the 29th, and I'm. Look, they've been extremely helpful and they do a lot and I'm very grateful. But with the 29th, my. I. The way I enter the water, I enter the water when it's slack tide low going into flood. And the reason why is because the initial swim, I'll have a slight cross current going upstream when I hit the Statue Liberty. But from then on, it's pushing us in a direction we want.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And, and so everything's based on a tide. So because the tides right now I only have the only three possible dates are 1st, 15th and the 29th. Issue with the 29th is the slack load to flood is actually at 644. And the issue with that is as I start the event at the north side of Liberty State park and they have a really cool monument, makes iconic pictures. It's a silhouette of what the twin towers looked over the horizon from Jersey.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And we start there, but that's a mile. We call it a Bud Shuffle. And basically in buds, when you with your class and you go to A to B.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It's like a slow formation jog.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

So that's what our flag runs are with flags. We're not trying to, you know, but I have a mile, a mile to run.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And they get guys on scene and registered. I need a two hour transition time. So that means I would have to have guys at 4am in the morning. And that's not good. And then it reduces my TV exposure.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah. So look, I'm begging and I'm pleading for the 15th.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. Man, it's amazing. Just what we just talked and I'm sure you've only touched the, the, the surface of it, how much planning goes into this event. You Know, and coordinations and just, you know.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You know, I imagine it's like with the. Your brothers that you worked with. Right. Here's the truth. When you get a group of good guys and they're. They're about it, they're in. Yeah, man. It's. It's easy to win.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. So you're not.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

So you're not doing it by yourself, are you?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

No way.

[Brent Tucker]

Nor could you.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Impossible. Yeah. I have a lot of beautiful people, man, to step up, man.

[Brent Tucker]

I love it. I love what you're doing. We're going to promote this. I just, I love, I love the event. I love the reason for it. I love when you do it. I love how you're doing it. I'm completely behind this event.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I want you in the water.

[Brent Tucker]

You want me in the water?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

I want you in the water.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, you could.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Now, I'm.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, I'm already a little bit concerned because you're talking about tides and currents. We were told in Special Forces dive qualification course course that tides and currents do not affect the combat diver. That's what they told us. We found out shortly after that. That was a lie. We did a lot of studying of tides and currents. Oh yeah, they absolutely affect the. The combat diver.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You can't swim upstream, man. Impossible.

[Brent Tucker]

No, you can't. No, you. You won't. You won't be there. I. I will be there. That's. That's in August. You. You let me know. But before I let you go, is there, is there anything else you want to talk about or anything else you're doing or something that you want to put out there? Your time?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

This is the real message. Look, I thoroughly believe our country's in trouble. I think we're one election away where you could have one party control. Look, there's plenty of great Democrats, but the truth is the leadership, in my opinion, they've gone astray. I love our country and I think it's very important now because you know the time to fight is not when you've been out leveraged and you're in men over ambush. The time to fight is now the time to speak up. Like, I honestly say this, you gotta fight like someone's got trying to take your wife away. Right? Because our freedoms are like in jeopardy. And I mean, do everything you legally possibly can to speak up and, and say no. Hell no. Like. And you know what's happening now. Like, you know, you look at our college campus, you look at our big law firms, you look at the corporate world like we have to Speak up. We have to speak up.

[Brent Tucker]

I agree with that one. The funnier analogies of that someone told me is, you know, you need to start moving, fighting and acting like you're, you're the third monkey getting on the Noah's Ark. And it's starting to rain.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

That's it. It's raining.

[Brent Tucker]

Really?

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It's raining. It's raining.

[Brent Tucker]

It's raining.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

It's raining.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah. The other. I just, I just, I do. I, I love sayings. They're just funny or they really drive home a point. Which is, which is also, you know, when's, when's the best time to plant a tree? Yesterday. Well, really, like when, when should we have really started? It started fighting yesterday. But that saying goes, oh, you didn't plant a tree yesterday. So when's, when's the best time to plant a tree? Well, then today. So I, I do, I think we're a little bit behind the power curve, which we already kind of talked about in the reasons, but. And the reasons because of that. But just because we're behind the power curve doesn't mean. Well, it's, you know, the ships pass us by.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Nothing is lost as long as good men and women and willingness stand up. Nothing.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. Before I let you go, you, like all the other guests, owe me a funny story.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

All right, I'll tell you. I'll tell you a funny story that kind of had a big impact on me because this was my first real wake up call. So I grew up very rough and tumble. I'm in buds when I was in going through school, I had, I didn't pay any attention, you know, I was way behind a power curve. After hell week they have a test is called a first phase finals. It's not complicated. Basically a chronological order of hydro reconnaissance. And that test, we had the, after the test, I knew I was in trouble. And the way they have the tables lined up in this, in this classroom, I'm in this, I'm in the aisle towards the back and there's this instructor and he's, he's a good instructor and he was absolutely doing his job. And he goes, if these guys helped save my life, they were. This was real tough love. But it's funny, he goes, he goes up to our OIC in our class, officer in charge, he's in the front. He's like, we got a new record. Because sometimes they kind of talk, you know, you know, we got a new record at buds. We gotta, we got a new record. He's like, can you believe someone in your class got a 16. That's a 16 out of 100.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I'm like, this. I'm like, dear God, man. I'm like, dear God, please don't for me. Please don't. And so then he's walking down the aisle, right? And he stops right at this right here by the. He's looking over. I'm like, off. And he grabs me and he yokes me up.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

If I got a 16, I go home and kill myself. And then, like, they put me in the back, and I had a trash can, you know, over my head, and I got. I got a chance to do the retest, you know?

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I do the retest. It's like a couple days later.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

And I had a nickname there, you know, they used to call me a freak.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

They're like, freak, get up here. And I go up there, and I'm like. He's like, miracles do happen.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Get the 60. That'll. That'll get you a nickname for sure.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

No one understands. For the most part. Most. Most Nick Daves are. It's not Hollywood. They're not the. It's not. It's not the cool nicknames. You don't get. You don't get Viper, whatever. Other cool nicknames. Not. Not in the land Warfare. You usually get a nickname of. Because of something silly or stupid you did. And even if it sounds cool, you got to ask the story behind it, because it. It probably has an alternate meaning behind it.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

You know what? It's a lot. It's like tattoos. It's. It's a. There's a message. There's. There's a message behind.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Bill, thanks so much for coming down here, sharing your story. I really enjoyed it from. All the way from explaining, you know, the. The history, if you will, of. Of seals, the breakdown of the SEAL community, The. The training, your personal story, and everything that. That you're doing now continuing for both our. Our country through the law system and given back on the. On the New York City SEAL swim.

[Bill Brown Jr.]

Brent, I want to give a salute to you and your brother Drew, and here's the reason. Because our country's in trouble and for too long. Too long. Too many good men and women who've put it online first country police officers have been silent. And. And what I'm. What you're doing is real grassroots, and this is what we need.

[Brent Tucker]

I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate that. And that's all because of you guys, the listeners tuning in to guys like me and Mike Bill and, like, Drew. Thank you so much. We'll see you guys next time.