Osama Bin Laden Raid Team Leader, Seal Team Six | Tier1 Podcast

Summary

TIER1 Podcast | Osama Bin Laden Raid Team Leader, SEAL Team Six

Host: Brent Tucker
Guest: Alex West (20-year Naval Special Warfare veteran, SEAL Team Six, founder of One More Wave, mental health therapist)
Recorded: April 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This wide-ranging episode features an in-depth conversation between former Delta Force operator Brent Tucker and SEAL Team Six’s Alex West, the team leader for the Osama Bin Laden raid. The discussion explores Alex’s unusual global upbringing, his journey into the SEALs, formative influences, the realities of elite selection, leadership and mindset, the inside story of the UBL raid, coping with loss (Extortion 17), and Alex’s commitment to mental health and veteran support. The episode is packed with first-person insights, honest storytelling, and humor.

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Guest Introduction & Early Life (03:25–10:24)

• Background: Alex West’s parents worked on humanitarian causes in Africa; born in South Africa, lived in Lesotho and Cairo, then moved to Kansas City at age 10.
• Military Heritage: Father was a Vietnam Air Cav veteran, attack pilot, and advisor, instilling early respect for service and adventure.
• Adventurous Spirit: Stories of returning to Cairo as a teen, including bribing guards to climb the Great Pyramid as a teen ("It was pretty epic to see Cairo lit up, the Sahara, and the Nile from the top." – Alex, 09:05).
• Influence of “Navy SEALS” (Movie): Alex admits the Charlie Sheen film inspired him to consider special operations, a shared generational touchstone.

“I have to come out and just be honest ... the movie Navy SEALS with Charlie Sheen — I was really heavily influenced by that.”
— Alex West (12:34)

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Joining the Navy & BUD/S Training (10:24–36:25)

• Why Not Air Force/Marines: Alex chose the Navy, attracted by the recruiter’s laid-back style and inspired by his cousin Pete, already a SEAL.
• Early Entry: Enlisted at 17, with parental support, and attended BUD/S at age 18. One of the youngest in his class.
• Mindset & Attrition:
  • “I had no plan B. You have to be consumed by this or nothing or else you won’t make it.” — Brent Tucker (21:41)
  • Only a handful of 18-year-olds in BUD/S; most young men quit, but Alex credits breaking hardship into manageable increments: “Just make it to the next meal. Can’t make that, make it to the next five minutes.” (29:22)
• Hell Week:
  • Alex offers a vivid play-by-play of the anxiety before Hell Week, the physical toll (“You wake up like a truck hit you.” – 33:02), and the pride of earning the brown T-shirt after surviving.
• Insight: Camaraderie in suffering is foundational for later mental resilience and team success.

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Early SEAL Team Experience & Post-9/11 (36:25–43:41)

• SEAL Team 3 Pre-9/11: Ship takedowns (VBSS) on embargoed Iraqi oil smuggling vessels — “super cool for the time,” but not high intensity.
• 9/11 Recollection: Alex was on deployment in Australia when the attacks happened—emailed back to the ship, saw the footage in the galley of the USS Dubuque.
• Shift to Combat: The team diverted to the Pakistan coast, supporting USAF CSAR elements, then on to early post-9/11 Afghanistan.

“You guys are so alike... there’s some old-school weird rivalry going on. That’s not that healthy. You’re going to do exchanges.”
— Gen. McChrystal (recounted by Alex, 71:14)

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Invasion of Iraq & Path to SEAL Team Six (43:41–56:46)

• Iraq War:
  • Participated in the Al Faw Peninsula raid with entire SEAL Team 3 (a rare full team mission) alongside the UK 40th Commando—securing oil infrastructure at the war’s outset.
• Learning the Trade:
  • Early wars were formative (“We were really weak on mobility, on planning, on night work...we figured it out as we went.” – Brent Tucker, 47:28)
  • Nods driving: “I can foot patrol on NODS, but not drive...our chief had us doing laps around Camp Rhino all night.” (49:02)
  • Tech disparities: refining night fighting, learning on the fly with evolving gear.
• Dev Group Selection:
  • Spotted by his platoon chief (a former Red Squadron operator) as a promising candidate at 21–22, encouraged to screen during SEAL Team 7’s expansion.
  • “Imposter syndrome” was real—“What’s the worst that could happen? You don’t get picked up, you try next year.”
  • Selected at 22, began Green Team at 23.

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Integration at SEAL Team Six (The "Red Squadron" Years) (56:46–63:15)

• Youth & Scrutiny: Youngest selected at the time, felt pressure and ribbing—but cadre wanted to mold a team leader early in their career, “to maximize potential.”
• Importance of Culture Fit:
  • Recognized that experienced operators sometimes struggle to ‘unlearn’ habits from previous assignments—a parallel with Delta’s “muscle memory” standardization.
  • “There was an uphill battle for a while… just like any. Take the trash out. But I was also young.” — Alex West (59:37)
• First deployments: Afghanistan, then on to unique CIA paramilitary “Omega” missions; ultimately embedding deeply in the GWOT’s most kinetic assignments.

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Strike Forces, Omega Teams, and Unit Rivalries (63:15–76:01)

• Omega Teams:
  • SEAL/JSOC assaulters attached to CIA paramilitary (ground branch) teams as advisors with tactical and air-medical capabilities.
  • Description: “They were essentially just very high-paid Green Berets... cowboys, with not a fraction of the resources of an ODA.” (65:18)
  • Q: Did you enjoy Omega or traditional strike force more? A: Strike force missions were Alex’s preference.
• Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq:
  • As the war shifted, Tier 1 SEALs surged to Iraq to support Delta; Alex relates his own experience integrating into a Delta troop (mentored by Bob Horgan) and being warmly accepted—building mutual respect.
  • Military folklore vs. reality: “Delta vs. SEAL Team Six” rivalry squashed in real-world operations, especially post-Gen. McChrystal.

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The Weight of the War: Surge, Operations Tempo, and Its Toll (76:01–81:13)

• Life During the Surge:
  • Daily multiple missions, follow-on targets—“smallest units, biggest tasks.”
  • Ranger Regiment and 160th SOAR credited as vital partners. “A lot of guys carried a lot of that targeting on their shoulders, and the casualty rate showed it.” — Alex West (78:39)
  • Toll: Mental, physical, emotional. “We were excited, but it was a lot of weight on such a small force.”

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The Osama Bin Laden Raid: Planning, Execution, and Aftermath (81:13–116:51)

Discovery, Briefings, & Training (81:13–85:37)

• Genesis:
  • After previous false alarms/spins, finally briefed on the “special mission.” Realized the magnitude only when high-level officials and details emerged.
  • "I almost felt like puking... like, 'the' man? You really think you found him?"
  • Even as training began, most doubted the op would actually go (“There’s no way... even as we were on the bus. We thought: there’s no way.” – 92:26).
  • All-star team: JSOC picked top team leaders and two ICs, creating an all-star but non-organic troop, which presented unique leadership and role challenges (“Who's the team leader of the team leaders?” – 90:32).

The Mission (93:27–116:51)

• Logistics & Risk:
  • Planners had to consider F-16s, air defense, and Pakistan’s reactions. President Obama insisted on air cover: “If Pakistani F16s come after our guys… we’re going to protect our guys.” (94:59)
• Stealth Helicopters:
  • First time seeing the “Stealth Black Hawk” in a remote desert land. Main innovation: reduced acoustic signature and new internal layout.
• Loadout Constraints:
  • Mission required absolute weight shaving (no speedballs, limited ammo, minimal grenades) due to helicopter fuel limits and contingency planning (for “Alamo up” scenarios).
• Flight:
  • Flight to target longest of career (~1.5hrs alone in thought), bearing emotional weight of representing the nation, the memory of 9/11.
  • “All I could think was: I cannot let down the American people. This isn’t about me.”
• Helicopter Crash:
  • His bird, intended to fast-rope into the middle courtyard, crashed due to unexpected rotor wash from the compound’s high walls. Quick decision-making, teamwork, and training kept everyone on task.
• Assault on the Compound:
  • Entered through a door known from intel to be unlocked. Charged up the center, confronting steel doors, couriers, and possible suicide vests or house-borne IEDs.
  • Emphasis: He didn’t know 100% it was Bin Laden until the call came over the radio after target was secured.
• Extraction:
  • QRF with 47s launched from Afghanistan (“ballsy”); scramble to SSE, destroy crashed helo remnants, and load for exfil.
  • Humorous moment: as they loaded, Alex’s master chief responded to his SSE concerns: “Well cool, you could just stay here.”
  • Fuel near-miss: almost didn’t make it to the refueling point in Pakistan.
• Moment of Realization:
  • True weight of the operation hit as the President’s news address came on TV back at Bagram: “That’s when it really hit. We are lucky we pulled that off.”

“This is not about me. This is payback for America.”
— Alex West (103:37)

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Aftermath, Extortion 17, and Loss (121:02–126:14)

• Professional Jealousy?: Not much; “banter” between squadrons, but pride across the command (“If our squadron did it, we wouldn’t have crashed a helicopter,”—a joke).
• The Tragedy of Extortion 17:
  • Months after the raid, SEAL Team Six lost an entire troop plus enablers and Afghan partners in the shoot-down of a CH-47.
  • Massive impact: “Dozens of numbers in your phone suddenly gone.” Alex had close friends in that troop; the loss lingers in the community.

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Therapy, Transition, and One More Wave (126:14–139:41)

Mental Health Advocacy

• Combat stress and loss: Along with general GWOT trauma, Extortion 17’s aftermath motivated Alex to pursue mental health therapy for veterans.
• On being a veteran therapist:
  • Uniquely positioned: “A veteran’s struggling...it is fortunate where I can be like, yeah man, me too.”
  • “You can be both a Tier 1 operator and reach out to get help.” — Alex West (139:43)

One More Wave (130:07–137:39)

• Mission:
  • Nonprofit provides customized surfboards and wetsuits to wounded or mentally struggling veterans, fostering healing through surfing and community.
  • Boasts the largest program worldwide for adaptive surfboards (over 750 boards granted).
  • Also emphasizes the “China Beach” Vietnam legacy, and the clinical benefits of flow-state activities for PTSD.
  • Nationwide chapters provide community and regular “surf days”; if you miss, you’ll get checked on.

"Anything that can get you in that flow state I think is important."
— Alex West (136:12)

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Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Mindset and Selection

• “Just make it to the next meal. Can’t make it to the next meal? Just make it to the top of the hour… then five minutes. Break it down small.” — Alex West (29:22)
• “There were D1 athletes quitting. I was just a decent high school athlete, but I made it.” — Alex West (31:10)

On Rivalry and Teamwork

• “At the end of the day, you know, we were hitting target…there’s maybe a little extra trash talking, but it was very… I felt honored to be there at that age.” — Alex West (60:28)
• “[Gen. McChrystal] noticed…this is going past [friendly rivalry]. This is ridiculous. After that, I really felt like I was a straight-up part of that team.” — Alex West (74:50)

On the UBL Raid

• “We will all die doing it. Even the moment of looking back to make sure everybody’s cool—it doesn’t matter. If there are guys scattered all over, we’re going to go.” — Alex West (108:58)
• “Once the doors opened, it was just on. Like—I’m back. I know I can do this.” — Alex West (104:43)
• “We didn’t have speedballs, didn’t have all this stuff. It was very…unnerving.” — Alex West (100:23)

Humor/Relatable Moments

• “Yes, I had a piss bottle. Of course I did. Gatorade bottle, obviously—not a water bottle. It might still be in Pakistan. You’re welcome, Pakistan.” — Alex West (141:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |------------------------------ |---------------| | Childhood, Family, Upbringing | 05:17–10:24 | | Pyramid Story | 07:28–10:08 | | Movie/Military Influence | 12:27–14:44 | | Discussion of BUD/S Training | 20:47–36:25 | | Pre-/Post-9/11 Operations | 36:30–43:41 | | Iraq Invasion & Early War | 43:52–47:45 | | Night Driving Humvee/NODS | 49:02–53:56 | | Dev Group Selection & Culture | 54:05–63:15 | | Working with Delta | 71:14–75:17 | | Strike Force “Surge” | 76:01–81:13 | | UBL Raid Planning/Execution | 81:40–116:49 | | Extortion 17, Grief, Aftermath | 121:02–126:14 | | Mental Health/One More Wave | 126:14–139:41 |

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Closing Thoughts

Alex closes with a direct message to struggling veterans: you can be both tough and vulnerable, and seeking help—whether peer-led or professional—makes you a better father, husband, and friend. One More Wave’s thriving community is proof that healing and connection after service are possible.

“You can be both a Tier 1 operator and get help. You deserve it.”
— Alex West (139:43)

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How to Support

• One More Wave: Sponsor a surfboard, get involved, refer a veteran.
• Mental Health: Normalize seeking help, stay connected, and don’t let teammates drift.

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End of Summary — Written in the authentic language and spirit of the episode. For more, find TIER1 Podcast on your preferred platform.

Transcript

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[Alex West]

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[Alex West]

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[Alex West]

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[Brent Tucker]

Welcome back to the Tier One Podcast. I am your host Brent Tucker, owner of FRCC. That's First Responders. Coffee, cigar and cask company. We do just that. Coffee, cigars and bourbon. We do it better than anyone else. Go to FRCC Shop and use promo code tier one to get 15% off your order. And I'm Drew Tucker, Operator Manager at FRCC Shop. Thanks for joining us. Please I invite you to join our Patreon. It is brought to you by Cobalt Kinetics. We have behind the scenes footage, exclusive content, There's a fitness forum and a gun forum. And within that gun forum there's a gun expert from Cobalt Kinetics ready to answer all of your weapon questions.

[Alex West]

So join our Patreon today.

[Brent Tucker]

And as always, this episode is brought to you by Human Performance TRT. Go to HP trt.com and use the promo code TIER1 to get 20% off your order. Don't wait any longer to get in the best shape of your life, get your blood work done, see what you need. We offer testosterone and peptides. So please go to hp trt.com let's do it. Drew. For the special for. Welcome to the Tier one podcast.

[Alex West]

This is amazing. Dude, check this out.

[Brent Tucker]

Very excited about today's guest. Alex west served 20 years in the Naval Special Warfare. Half of that and or some of that on the white side and the majority of that over on the tier one side. He was also part of arguably the greatest high value target raid of all time. We'll get into that. He's also the founder of One More Wave, a non profit organization for veterans and he's a practicing mental health therapist in Nashville, Tennessee. Welcome to show Alex.

[Alex West]

Thank you for having me, Brent.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. Before we get into it, Tasty gains has, has some gifts for you.

[Alex West]

Oh, right on. Thank you.

[Brent Tucker]

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[Alex West]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

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[Alex West]

Thank you.

[Brent Tucker]

Every.

[Alex West]

All right.

[Brent Tucker]

Every man should have a attack lighter. 10.

[Alex West]

I agree. I agree. Thank you.

[Brent Tucker]

I definitely could know something about a attack light. Yeah, absolutely.

[Alex West]

Hey, you can always use an extra.

[Brent Tucker]

No kidding. Absolutely.

[Alex West]

All right.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, we used to start with kind of childhood and, and up and recently I've just kind of started the story with a. Like, why'd you join and skip that part? Not that that part isn't important, but sometimes I guess just get to the good stuff. Yeah, I'm gonna go back to, to the, to the old questions for you because you do have a, an interesting childhood and path before you got to the military. So let's start there.

[Alex West]

Yeah. I was born to American parents in Lady Brand, South Africa. And we lived in Lesotho, which is the only country in the world completely surrounded by another country. And it's a African mountain kingdom. My parents, my dad was working for the World Water Project, trying to bring water to a billion impoverished people. And my mom was a schoolteacher. And so we lived in Lesotho and then in Cairo, Egypt, and then moved to the States to Kansas City of all places. Talk about being a little weird kid when they, you know, you're asked to stand up and introduce where you're from. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

How old were you when, when you moved?

[Alex West]

10.

[Brent Tucker]

10. So you, you, you remember it. You got a. I Do you had a good foundation of growing up and.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

In South Africa.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

That's pretty crazy. You and Elon Musk have a lot in common.

[Alex West]

Except for our bank accounts, but yeah, whatever.

[Brent Tucker]

The. Your. Your dad was a veteran as well?

[Alex West]

He was, yeah. He was actually attack p. In Vietnam at. In the first. The seventh Air Cav. And was. And also an advisor and. But he. And he would get out and afterwards met my mom when he was on the GI Bill and in college and then that's when after that they went overseas.

[Brent Tucker]

The. Did. Did he ever tell you any stories when you were a kid about. Did he.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And. And it was interesting, you know, hearing him talk about it was always kind of around in our home a little bit between he and I. And I think that was a big influence on me. It just kind of, you know, as a young boy looking up to your dad and. And actually him being proud of his service. Yeah. And I love them. Yeah. And he would take us to air shows. We're kind of talking about that last night my dad did the same thing, you know, take us to air shows and. And things like that. He didn't push it, but he was supportive.

[Brent Tucker]

The. With. With that. Oh, well, actually, before we get there, there. There is a story I want to cover. It's a little bit shows, I think shows either a. I was gonna say adventurous side, but there's a part. Maybe a. A rebel's idea about. While climbing the pyramids. You weren't. You weren't done with. With. With Africa just because you left at 10.

[Alex West]

No.

[Brent Tucker]

You kept going back.

[Alex West]

I did. And it's interesting when I think back on it, you know, the older I get, like, you know, why was I doing that? But I feel like I was. I think it was an adventure streak. I still had friends and kept in contact with friends in Egypt and I. I had, you know, like any kid at jobs. I worked at a pizza shop in the mall or, you know, mowed lawns, whatever. And I would save up and I went back to Cairo and sophomore in high school and then as a. After I graduated high school, before I joined the Navy, I flew back to Cairo to visit friends.

[Brent Tucker]

When you went back there, you guys had an idea to get a close and get close and personal with a pyramid.

[Alex West]

We sure did. So we decided we were not going to fuck around. We're going to climb one and. Right. And we bribed our way up to the guards there. And it was at night, almost at a full moon, which kind of was an incredible Experience. The way you. We did it at least was you climb up the apex, like, kind of like the edge of it. And it was so dangerous looking back on it, because each step or each stone is about four feet taller. So you're almost doing, like, a muscle up. Yeah. To each one. And it's. If I remember, we climbed Kiops, which is about 440ft. You might want to double check me on that. But I think it's right around there.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And I remember halfway up, as we were going up, you know, it's made of limestone, so it was very. It was crumbling and coming down, and we were just teenagers in, like, running shoes. No, there was nothing else. You're just like, idiots. Right. And so I remember, like, rocks falling down and just thinking, like, this is ridiculous and dangerous. But I will say this. When we finally got to the top and you could see Cairo, one of the largest cities in the world, and then you'd see the Sahara desert and then this, like, full moon in the Nile right there. It was pretty epic.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

You told me that story. And we. Because I. I haven't been to Egypt. My first thought is, was. Was one of the big ones, like, one of the big three.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And like, there's no, There's a. There's a. There's a bunch of pyramids.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

So I had to look it up. There's. I didn't. There's over a hundred pyramids in, In Egypt.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm sure. Ranging from, from various sizes.

[Alex West]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

But that is cool that you did that, because every time I see a. A picture one, there is a part of me that's like, I'd love to climb that.

[Alex West]

Yeah. If I, If I may just maybe grab a helmet, do a risk assessment.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, there's going. You were 18 at the time. There's going to be someone in the comment section like, how. How dare you? You know, you're destroying, you know, historical.

[Alex West]

I mean, no disrespect. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

I've done dub things at. At 18 as. As well. But I do love that story because it, The. The audaciousness of it. Like, we're just gonna bribe this guard and we're gonna get up there and we'll make it.

[Alex West]

Yeah, yeah, of course we'll make it.

[Brent Tucker]

I love it. So there's. There's a beginning of an adventurous side to you. When you went and you joined then. Then my question is, why. Why the Navy and not the Air Force? With that being in your. Your family background.

[Alex West]

Sure. That's A great question. I. Well, I actually originally was thinking about the Marine Corps.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

And I remember I went into. To the recruiter office. You know, it was in a strip mall in Kansas City. You know, you got all. All the branches. And went to the Marine Corps recruiter first, but he was so overbearing, and all I wanted was a pamphlet, and just, you know, and he would not, like, leave me alone. And so I remember then I walked down to the army recruiters, and I think they were like, at lunch, just nobody was in the office. Same with the Air Force. I can't remember the time of day, but I went to the. The Navy recruiter, and I was just so worn out from this Marine recruiter, and I was just like, I need to just get a pamphlet. That's what I came down here for. And I walked in, and these guys were just like, what's up, bro? And I'm like, what's up? And, like, you need anything? And they were just chill, you know.

[Brent Tucker]

What a perfect snapshot of the four branches.

[Alex West]

Totally the juxtaposition from the Marine Corps of the Navy, right? And I'm just, like, kind of, like, waiting.

[Brent Tucker]

Army's not even there.

[Alex West]

Yeah, Navy's, like, sort of there. And so. So I was just like, you know, I just want, like, a pamphlet. They're like, yeah, what do you. What kind? For what? What program? And I was like, I want to be a seal. And they kind of chuckled. They're like, of course you do. And. And they're like, but, yeah, you want a pamphlet. Cool. Here you go. They gave me, like, a VHS tap tape, I believe, on just the pipeline. And. And then I remember thinking, like, okay, can I just leave? And they're like, yeah, man. You said you just wanted that. Like, leave if you want. And I was like, okay. And that, like, clicked for me. But I will say this because I have to come out and just be honest. Although, what got me thinking about the SEAL teams when I was. I want to say it was like 1990 or so when the movie Navy Seals came out with Charlie Sheen. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I remember just thinking, like, man, those guys, you know, I was young and just. I was really heavily influenced by that. And I believe a lot of guys from my generation kind of were absolutely as.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, we're practically the. The same age. And I mean, that's exactly how I viewed that movie. It was just an epic movie. I mean, I don't. It'd be hard to get the. The data from it, but it would be unbelievable. I think to, to see how many people either join the seals or join the Navy or join the military in general. Because of that movie. Yeah, it's because of that. I know it's always easy to make jokes or like light hearted jabs at whatever books or movies.

[Alex West]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm actually a big fan of it. I am. It goes all the way back to John Wayne and the Green Berets. My dad's generation, they grew up wanting to be Green Berets because of John Wayne and the Green Berets. Then our generation grew up wanting to be Navy SEALs because of the, you know, the, the movie Navy SEALs. So I think it's really important and I'm, I don't know if we have that level of movie right now that, that makes, that makes young men want to go do something for their country. I think it's important when, and, and you call it movies. You know, I use movies earlier, but like you, I read books. One of my first, if not my first book was also yours. Which one was it? With it.

[Alex West]

Rogue Warrior.

[Brent Tucker]

Rogue Warrior.

[Alex West]

Yeah. Yeah, that was my stick. Marcinko. Yeah. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I mean those, so those, those books influenced me, you know, still to join Special Operations. So I think they're important.

[Alex West]

I agree.

[Brent Tucker]

I think stories should be told.

[Alex West]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

There's a way that can be told, but they should be told.

[Alex West]

I, I couldn't agree with you more.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And I know they have done military movies again here, here of recent. But just none of them maybe, maybe it's yet to be seen, but none of them have just reached the level of Apocalypse Now.

[Alex West]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

You know Platoon.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Again like Navy seals, just some of those massive hits. But I don't know, maybe, maybe with time it, it may change. But anyway, I'm, I hope so.

[Alex West]

I bet it will.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I hope so too. But I, I'm, I am a big, I'm a big fan of that and I love that is something that, it's one of your reasons that enjoyed.

[Alex West]

I had to come clean with it. Navy seals, Charlie Sheen.

[Brent Tucker]

What? What? And, and by the way, I, I rarely change these things. I, I, I change these lights to blue just for you.

[Alex West]

I appreciate that.

[Brent Tucker]

Little tip of the hat.

[Alex West]

No, I usually keep them cool.

[Brent Tucker]

You should keep them white and can't offend anyone.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

There's a joke there. When you told your dad that you're, did you, did he know beforehand that you're going to join the, the seals or that was your intention?

[Alex West]

He did. Yeah. My parents, I actually joined at 17 so my parents had to help sign, you know, And I remember my dad even being like, are you sure you don't want to just wait until you're 18? You know, like, does it have to be now? And. And I was just so excited. I just wanted to get out of town, you know, and that was pre 9 11, the whole, like, join the Navy, see the world. I wasn't ready for, like, college or a job. I didn't. I was just. It was exciting. And my first cousin Pete, who. We're almost like brothers, he was already a SEAL and actually let me take that. I went to junior in high school, which was Bud's graduation.

[Brent Tucker]

Really.

[Alex West]

And, yeah, when I went to that, you know, I was trying to figure out. I thought I wanted to maybe join the Navy, but I wasn't sure. I was thinking about maybe trying to play junior college baseball. And I went to that Budge graduation, and I saw so many guys, just the camaraderie and the stories and how they clicked, and it's so ironic. So many of those guys I would end up later being in teams with or on deployments with, which is ironic. But that was also one of the biggest influences, was just seeing my cousin who I looked up to, going through buds and just being like, that's what I'm going to do. Or at least give it a shot.

[Brent Tucker]

That is. That is awesome. And that. And it's even. It's a small community, so you got. You got to see those guys.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Later. Which is crazy.

[Alex West]

Crazy.

[Brent Tucker]

It's got to be. It's crazy for you, but it's going to be crazy for them, too, because this was just a kid who wasn't even in the Navy yet.

[Alex West]

It's like 16 or something. Yeah. It's a little nerd running around. You know, I don't.

[Brent Tucker]

I. I don't tell this story often, but the one thing that influenced me to really become a Green Bray, I wanted to. I was just in. And I was still an air defender, but I was. I was going. I was going to go to. I don't have a selection date yet, but I told myself, I'm going to selection.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And I was like, person. I don't tell a lot of people what I'm going to. What I'm going to do. I just. I just go do it.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm at this wedding for a family friend, and there's this. There's this guy there. He's got to be in his 60s, late 60s, maybe early 70s, and he's in his dress greens and he's a Green Beret. He's a full bird colonel, retired, you know, but that's what he wore to the wedding. And I couldn't help it. I was like, man, that's. That's a Green Beret. Never actually seen one. So I went up this guy in the parking lot before he leaves, and I say, hey, I'm in the army, and I'm. I'm gonna go to selection, be a Green Beret. I don't know what I was expecting.

[Alex West]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

He looks down at me and he goes, huh? Good luck.

[Alex West]

You're like, thank you.

[Brent Tucker]

In a weird way, like, that's what motivated. I wanted. I wanted to work with rough men. And this guy's, you know, retired, and. And he's still, you know, a rough.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Gritty man. And it didn't, like, deter me by. By any means. In fact, I was like, all right, noted. That's. That's. That's. That's the type of. Type of man I want to be.

[Alex West]

I can relate to that.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved it. So when he didn't. He didn't try to talk you out of it?

[Alex West]

No.

[Brent Tucker]

I mean, he wanted to delay it, but he didn't mind you being a seal?

[Alex West]

No, no, he didn't. And he was. He was really proud. And I remember him, you know, talking because he had mentioned how he'd crossed paths with some seals in Vietnam and some SF guys also. And he was just. Always spoke highly of special operations, even though he wasn't in special operations. But, yeah, he didn't try to talk me out of it just to try to, like, hey, let's just wait till you graduate. And I think secretly he probably was hoping that maybe I would hang around for a couple years at least, now that I think about it, like, try college or something, like. Which makes sense. I would probably tell that to a son, if I had a son. Just like, hey, man, like, it's like, the SEAL teams are not going anywhere. Right? You know what I mean? Like. Like, grow up a little bit, make some mistakes, whatever. But. But he was supportive.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. When. What was. What was your. Your rate or what's. Yes, sir. We talked about it earlier.

[Alex West]

We did, yes. So I was a radioman in the. In the Navy. So, you know, you go to boot camp and then from there. For any of the listeners that don't know, a rate is like an MOS in the Army.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And so you had to have, in those days a job which was recommended. You had a job before you went to buds, because likely you weren't going to make it. And the Navy wanted to have you. Well, yeah. Well, the thing is, like, you know, in the Navy, it's like, all right, you don't make it, you're going to be like chip and paint on a, on a ship or something. Like, if you don't have a job, like, they'll find a job for you, but it's not going to be anything too exciting. So I went to Radium and A school in Great Lakes, which is outside of Chicago in Illinois, and just for sat com radio stuff, high frequency, you know, just shipboard communications. And then from there, went right to buds. From there.

[Brent Tucker]

I've, I've talked to, you know, interviewed other SEALs, and they talk about their A school and it might have been Andy stuff. Think he was like sonar, I think. And there's, there's other people who, you know, they go to their A school. It's just a random one that's nothing to do. That might be the first one. I'm like, actually, that's, that's, that's a good foundation to have. You're going to work with radios and

[Alex West]

so, yeah, it was good. I mean, even when, you know, getting comms, I was never technically a comms guy, but, you know, and we all were proficient in basic communications. Right. So. And when we're talking about, you know, setting up satcom radios and stuff, I already understood the concept of everything, so. It did. It was interesting. In the Navy, there's a few jobs that might kind of apply to special operations, but not too many, to your point, like torpedo men, you know, or whatever it is, it might not apply.

[Brent Tucker]

There's. There's one thing I, I do. I'm actually being a little too faced about this. Yeah. Because when some people ask me, like, well, well, what, what if I don't make it? I know, I. Whether I say it to him, what's my inside voice? I kind of think, well, you probably already shouldn't go. Like, I had no plan B. You know, there's, There was just. If it's. You have to be consumed by this or nothing or else you won't make it.

[Alex West]

I couldn't agree more.

[Brent Tucker]

But I've also told people before, really, that if they wanted to go be, whether it be a Green Beret or a seal, that I've told them, you should go be a Green Beret because if you don't make it, you'll still end up in the 82nd.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And you're still an airborne, you know, paratrooper. And if you wanted to go to war, you're still going to. To go to war. And that's just not true with the Navy.

[Alex West]

No.

[Brent Tucker]

And the numbers aren't with you.

[Alex West]

No.

[Brent Tucker]

And if you don't make it, like the, the consolation prize.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Is drastically different.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

But. But I, in the same way, I actually respect that because you know that and, but you don't care. Like you.

[Alex West]

No, you're going for it.

[Brent Tucker]

You're going for it.

[Alex West]

Yeah. And don't get me wrong, that thought did cross my mind, especially in buds, when you're, like, getting served torture. Like, you know, if I don't, if I decide to maybe not be here, I could be on a ship chipping paint, like I said, or in a Radio Shack or something. But where. If I was perhaps in SF selection or whatever. It's like you bounce out. Yeah. 82nd, you know, you're still kind of getting some high school good stuff. You know, it could also be a.

[Brent Tucker]

Just another reason not to quit.

[Alex West]

Yeah, no, it was. It was a mo. When the instructors would say, like, you know, there's options, and they would just point out to ships on the CO on, you know, right on the horizon, and it was pretty. They'd remind you and it was like, okay. I mean. And nothing against. If there's any Navy sailors out there listening, nothing against that. But for, for me and, you know, guys wanting that program, that. That's the whole reason you joined, was for that.

[Brent Tucker]

It's simple. It's not what you signed up for. It's, you know, it's not, it's not shade on. On any.

[Alex West]

No way.

[Brent Tucker]

It's just a retrospect, not what you, what you signed up for. The. When did you turn 18 in buds?

[Alex West]

Yeah, I was 18 when I checked into buds, and then I would end up turning 19 while I was in buds. Wait, let me make sure I got that right. Yes, I would be. I would turn 19 in buds.

[Brent Tucker]

I don't expect an exact number, but. What year are we talking about?

[Alex West]

99.

[Brent Tucker]

99. I don't expect an exact number, but how many either? How large, roughly, was your BUDS class and how many people were, you know, 18 years old in your BUDS class? Just give an idea of it.

[Alex West]

I would say rough numbers in the beginning. Rough numbers.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

I would say we started with perhaps 180 guys or so, and guys were 18. There was probably 10 or less, maybe. Maybe six or less of us. We were very young.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

Like I was.

[Brent Tucker]

Small numbers.

[Alex West]

Very. Yeah, very.

[Brent Tucker]

Not a one off, but.

[Alex West]

But no, it wasn't like the only 18 year old. There's a couple. I think there might even now they think about it. There was a friend of mine actually, who was even younger than me. Like, I think he was 17 and turned 18 in buds. Yeah. Which is crazy.

[Brent Tucker]

But that is crazy. But it's not, it's not like you got a whole lot more life experience.

[Alex West]

No, no. And like we're talking about like six months or something.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, it really is. Yeah.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I went through, you know, our selection and Q course, like process when I was 23.

[Alex West]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

And there's. There's a big difference between. And you're still, you're still young, but there's a big difference between seven and

[Alex West]

you're like a freshman in college. I mean, when you imagine like what a freshman in college does, you're.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah. I've. Which on the subject. So I randomly think about it. D.J. shipley was very young. He was just like you, like going into the teams and, and again, like, just like you and I, I just think to myself, like, I don't know, I think he was 18 or 19.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

In combat, I think he might have been. And I just, I can't imagine the, the pressure of performing with those men.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And not having some sort of, you know, imposter syndrome.

[Alex West]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

It's just a lot for, for a young man.

[Alex West]

It's crazy.

[Brent Tucker]

But, you know, guys both did it.

[Alex West]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And dj, it's interesting. We're all teammates and, and go back. But yeah, you're right. Because I recall checking into buds and seeing the instructors and just being like, holy, that's like a SEAL instructor.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And being like, you know, a teenager and, and being so intimidated by it and. But then still just being like, all right, well, just, let's just keep going, you know, like, okay, get over yourself. You're here. If you don't too much. Yeah. If you don't. If you don't keep pushing, you're gonna be on that fucking ship. It always comes back 18 on a ship.

[Brent Tucker]

The. Do you remember after Hell week, how many 18 year olds were still there? Again, a rough guess.

[Alex West]

Not many. Because I will say this. I know the highest attrition rate is the younger guys in. In buds. I'm sure it probably isn't any soft selection, I would assume, but from my experience just being in buds, that it really. The guys that usually were quitting were like the 18, 19, 20 year olds. Because I would imagine the intimidation of it or just the gravity of it.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

The self confidence. The imposter syndrome. To your point.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. I don't think there's any way for them to really wrap their minds around what's about to happen to them.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And the older guys at least either have some experience where they knew someone who tried and quit.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Heard their stories. Or read books. There's a lot of things they can gather from. They may not know exactly how bad it's going to be because they haven't lived yet, but I feel like they at least can. Can mentally closely grasp it to where as a young man, it's just got to be a lot.

[Alex West]

Yes. And you know, the years that we were going through, like there wasn't any information. I mean, now you can watch stuff on YouTube from the different phases. There's more. I mean, there was books, I suppose, but there was. You really didn't know. I mean, I was lucky. I kind of had inside with my cousin being in the SEAL team. So I got a little.

[Brent Tucker]

That's right.

[Alex West]

A little bit of the inside scoop. But I mean, we're talking about conversations. It wasn't like you're watching, you know, Bud's class 234 on YouTube or something like that, which I don't know is good or bad. There might be like a good. Where you just. I know you might not knowing enough and just going for it. Who knows?

[Brent Tucker]

I've, I've, I've, I've always leaned more towards. I. I'd rather not know.

[Alex West]

Yeah, me too. Like less. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Because you said, you know, you think so many younger people quit, but you were one of the youngest in the class. You didn't. Why do you think you didn't quit? I think separated you from the other young.

[Alex West]

I think it was just an internal drive. I think it was a mindset of just. There's something they say in buds and I'm sure there's something similar in other selection courses where it's just, just make it to the next meal.

[Brent Tucker]

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[Alex West]

And I remember getting that advice from one of the instructors and just being like, I'll just do what the instructors tell me and to include that. And I think when you just really break it down to really small things, if you can't make the next meal, just make it to the top of the hour. Can't make it to the top of the hour. Just make it the next five minutes. And so I just really took that. I just did what I was told, I think, and just imply or like applied that and then. Yeah, and it just got me through a lot. Whether it was like a surf torture or a long dive or run or whatever it might be. Anything that was kind of a gut check. It was just. It will. There's always going to be a beginning, middle and end.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And so like, where do you think you are right now? Maybe in the middle. Okay, just keep going. You know, like make it to that palm tree on the run. Okay, cool. Make it the next one. So I think it was just breaking it down.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, I have a few more extra questions for you that I don't think I've asked anyone else. But really, because of your age, I'm just, I'm enamored by, by such a young man going, going through this process before hell week starts. I believe you start it on like a Sunday afternoon. Sunday evening, Yep. Right. Like before you go into that, you've made it this far. It's, I mean, that's, that's your crucible, right? I mean, yeah, you, you, you think you know what's, what's coming, but you don't know how bad it's going to be. How nervous are you before, before that starts?

[Alex West]

Oh, man, I was nervous. I was really, really nervous. I remember and going back in the, you know, the time machine here of thinking they. We were able to watch them like movies. I remember we watched. I think it was Gladiator, I think, or maybe, maybe it was a Gladiator. It was some, some. Oh, it was Platoon. That's what it was. And we ordered Domino's pizzas, you know, and we just sat. I remember being so nervous that I couldn't eat. And I knew that I had to eat, you know, to get as many calories system.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And. And I was so nervous. I couldn't. I was just forcing myself to eat this, like, stale Domino's pepperoni pizza. And I was nervous, I really was, because I had seen classes before us, you know, with guys that I looked up to, the guys that were maybe Division 1 athletes that were like actual men. Because, you know, as men, too, when you're 18, 19, you're not fully developed. And so I'm seeing guys that are maybe, you know, old guys at like 24, 25, who are perhaps elite athletes who had quit. And it was almost like, oh, I'm just some. A decent athlete, like high school, you know, I'm like, okay, but I'm not like a Division 1 champion. And so I was super intimidated for sure.

[Brent Tucker]

When you. When you made it through it. Although I'm sure by the end of it, every. Everything's a dream.

[Alex West]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

When you make it through. When does it end? It starts on a Sunday evening. It ends on a.

[Alex West]

On a Friday, if I recall. Friday afternoon.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

Or maybe like late afternoon. And yes. Yeah, we were. You know, you go five and a half days or so on maybe four and a half hours. Four hours of sleep. And you're hallucinating. Right. You know, there's medical checks a lot because our immune systems are down. They want to make sure guys, you know, they're just. They're trying to take care of you, but you're all beat up and. Yeah, I remember when it finally ended, I thought they were still messing with us because they would mess with you. Like, any selection. They're always messing with you. So it's just like, yeah, sure. And they're like, no, seriously, it's over. Yeah. And it's like, to walk away right now. Totally. I'll just jump back in the ocean because I know, like, what are you doing? Like, it's over. Like, yeah. Right

[Brent Tucker]

after that. Like, you've. You've got to go to bed on a Friday to wake up on a Sunday. Like, what.

[Alex West]

What.

[Brent Tucker]

What happens to you?

[Alex West]

Okay. When it's. When it's over with. Great question. So I remember. And it's a little spotty, so bear with me on this. So they. You got this, like, really large Gatorade. I don't. It wasn't a one liter. It might have been like a two liter. This is like the 90s. So, like, I don't know. I haven't seen these around since. But it's like something you might get At Costco, like this huge Gatorade, and they'd give you a pizza. Another. I don't know. I've seen a theme here. Where's the high performance nutritionist or dietitian? Is bud sponsor? Is Domino sponsoring buds? Might as well. Yeah. So. So I remember getting a pizza in this massive Gatorade and they take you back, you know, to your room, and then they have the one of, like, there's other students that didn't go through hell week, I think were rollbacks that would come in and do checks on you just to kind of swing through and make sure guys are okay, because they're still making sure medically you're. You're all right. And then, yeah, you do sleep, I want to say, certainly you're out. Like, almost like, I remember waking up and it was like a. Like a truck hit you. Like it. I was in pain. Right. Yeah. And I mean, probably a good thing to be like a teenager at that point. You know what I mean? Can't imagine the guys are a little bit older, but, yeah, I just remember feel like a train hit us. And then, if I recall, like, later that next day you go get checked out. They kept checking on you medically, but it was that weekend. All you're doing is sleeping and you're hobbling around, you know, with, like, chafing in between your legs. And, you know, it's just like you're a hot mess if you try to, like, later that weekend, go out in town, you know, like. But.

[Brent Tucker]

But you got to think to some level through. Through all the pain again, especially as a young man, there's got to be that I did it.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

I saw other men that were bigger than me, that were older than me, that didn't do it.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

There's that inner voice. Has to be like, well, yeah, some self pride.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And you earned that part of self pride.

[Alex West]

Absolutely. And that's what I think is so incredible about. For me and my experience, but also for any soft unit. And like, for a young man that goes through any of those, it's just like, nobody can take that from you.

[Brent Tucker]

Exactly.

[Alex West]

Right. It doesn't matter your. Your demographic, it doesn't matter your. Your background. If you came from an affluent family or a poor family, whatever it is, it's like it doesn't matter.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

It's just like, you know, you make it right. You know, you per. You perform and. Yeah. So there was a pride. I mean, the course wasn't over, of course, but there was like, well, the thing is, you're super cool. Well, not really, but so when you're. Before you go through hell week, you have like a white T shirt like that that you run around. That's like part of your uniform, right? And then when you make it through hell week, you're like Joe Cool because

[Brent Tucker]

you get a brown T shirt.

[Alex West]

Yeah, yeah. You're like, no, a brown shirt. And so there's like a status symbol, you know, and so there's like a little bit of pride as you're running around with a brown T shirt like, like Hanes, you know, super scratchy.

[Brent Tucker]

So that's an 18 year old. You get to look at these 24 year old D1 athletes in white shirts. What's up, please?

[Alex West]

What's up, nerds? Yeah, I remember one.

[Brent Tucker]

I was at your part of trading.

[Alex West]

Yeah, they're like, what, last week? Yeah, whatever, you know, it was.

[Brent Tucker]

That was a long week.

[Alex West]

A long week, bro. Yeah. You don't know, but you're about to find out.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, totally. We'll see if you get a brown shirt.

[Alex West]

Exactly.

[Brent Tucker]

He gets a brown shirt.

[Alex West]

Exactly. Dang. And he looks better in it too, of course. You know,

[Brent Tucker]

so you, you end up, you know, through, through trading you up, going to Seal Team 3.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And. And what? Pre 9 11, what were the seal teams doing?

[Alex West]

That's a great question. So at Seal Team 3, like pre 9 11, it was for the Whiteside seals. You had the, the Little Creek seals were kind of doing some stuff in Bosnia, which we were really jealous of on the west coast because it was the only thing kind of going on. However, in. On the west coast, we were doing some VBSs or visit board search and seizure, basically ship takedowns of. There was an embargo around Iraq at the time where Saddam was, you know, unable. He was having to smuggle oil. And so Seal Team 3 was doing shipboards and just taking down these smuggling ships. It wasn't, I mean, it was super cool for the time, but it's. It wasn't like big shootouts or anything like that. Just to kind of, you know, temper it. But it was exciting. You know, I remember even thinking in that era, man, if I would give anything to just be on one operation. Right. You know what I mean? Just one.

[Brent Tucker]

Even.

[Alex West]

Yeah. Even if a real world mission. Right. Even if it wasn't like the coolest one. It was like, it's almost. I can equate it to a professional athlete only practicing and just being like, just get me in one game. I just want to prove I can, I can Play the game. I don't have to be the guy that hits the game winning home run. I just want to suit up and play the game. And, and I recall that. But at Seal Team 3, I was excited and my friends from other teams were jealous. They're like, oh my gosh, you're going to SEAL Team three. They do vbss.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And so that's what was going on at least on the, on the white side.

[Brent Tucker]

Seal teams. Where were you at when, when 911 happened?

[Alex West]

Well, we were, I was in Australia, Darwin, Australia. And it was my first platoon. And I was so excited because we had this incredible schedule where we were going to like literally join the Navy, see the world. We're going to Hawaii, Thailand, Guam, Australia, and then going out to Bahrain to do those ship takedowns. However, when we're in Australia, we'd only been on deployment for maybe three weeks and we were at a restaurant and we were told, like, you need to get back to the ship. Like something's happening. And we were all mad because we've been training all week and it was finally our time to be out on the town, throw back a few beers or whatever. And so begrudgingly, we're all just kind of, you know, bitching as we get back to the ship. And I remember walking into the galley on the USS Dubuque, LPD 8 and. Which is decommissioned. And, But I remember walking in and watching the, the towers being hit by airplanes, unfortunately. And, and then I remember all. They were gathering, all the Marines and sailors from out in town and everybody was the same thing because they'd all been training too.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And I recall just the emotion of, of guys seeing it. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, UBL took that, took that weekend away from you. You should, you should probably do something about that about, about ten years from now.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah, put that in your back pocket. Yeah. I was like, man, you know what? I had, I had a great weekend planned for Darwin, Australia. Never mind the massive catastrophe. I need, I need this, man.

[Brent Tucker]

Of course, it's what we do in our line of work, you know, with, with some dark humor.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

But I'll, I'll, I'll turn and get serious real quick about it. I mean, I, that's why I joined. You know, I joined because of 9 11. You know, I have the Twin Towers, you know, tattooed to me. It was, it was like almost every American became, especially people our age. It's like, where were you? For sure, on, on 9 11.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And it's, you know, some people thank me for My service because I joined for 9 11. But at some point, after a few years of that, actually, I don't know when it happened, I kind of had this different outlook on it because I think, well, I joined. It took. It took 3, 000Americans losing their life in. In a huge act of terrorism on. On our soil for me to join.

[Alex West]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

But for guys like you to join, it didn't take that. You were all. You had already joined and you were already serving at a very high level for our country. And. And for that, I have a lot of respect for. For what I'll call that, I guess that generation right before me.

[Alex West]

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. And I'm not just saying this, but I respect the fact that you joined right after too, because you had options, I'm sure. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

I worked at a small feed store. It was. It was an option.

[Alex West]

Yeah, yeah. But I mean. Yeah, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

With. With my brother. No, some things haven't changed.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh, you know, it's like. It's a conversational podcast. We're talking about 9 11. I don't care, Drew. What? What? I don't think I've ever asked you this. When. When your two little brothers joined the military after 9 11. What. What did you think about that?

[Alex West]

I have no idea. That was a. That was a long time ago.

[Brent Tucker]

You should ask me, like, 25 years ago.

[Alex West]

I see.

[Brent Tucker]

It was very impactful. He's like, get out of here, YouTube.

[Alex West]

Yeah, exactly. Yes. Totally about time.

[Brent Tucker]

Honestly, I. I don't remember. I All. All I knew is I had to get up and go to work the next day and. Right. Whatever you guys were doing is whatever

[Alex West]

you guys were doing, you know?

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. So what did they get everyone back to the ship. But I'm sure is no small task.

[Alex West]

No, once.

[Brent Tucker]

Once you release the hounds.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

It's. It's tough to stuff to. To herd those cats.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

What. What. Where they take you after that.

[Alex West]

Yeah. So we originally were supposed to go to East Timor because there had been a really. A humanitarian mission was happening. And East Timor's an island changed above Australia. And so we. We actually did end up now, I think, about going to East Timor to do some humanitarian. Just for a couple days. It was just dropping off food. There was like a medcap type thing. And then we steamed right for the coast of Pakistan. And once we got there, I was. I feel so fortunate, especially on a white side SEAL platoon, that our leadership kind of got us in there and we were able to. We went to Jacob. Pakistan, where we were supporting Cesar elements from the Air Force as almost like a security element for them. So that's kind of where we ended up.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And this would have been, oh, I don't know, late October of maybe mid October of 2001.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, it is. I mean you guys started, you know, motoring up, up north, which is, I mean it just happened in 9 11. I mean it took us, it took us several weeks, if not a month for, for, for us to decide what we were going to do, what our response was. So it's awesome. You guys still like something's. Let's just go in the area.

[Alex West]

Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna respect my leadership. Yeah. Especially when I, the older I got and the more senior I got, I kind of thought like, wow, that was. Just get in there, just be available. That's all we did. We're like, hey, we've got at the time was 16 man platoon. You know, we have Jtax and medics and this and that, like can we help you out type things.

[Brent Tucker]

The where. What was your. Was your next rotation after that?

[Alex West]

My next rotation was the. I'm probably the Iraq invasion, which.

[Brent Tucker]

So at this point in your career you're just doing invasions?

[Alex West]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm like, call me Alex. Invasion West. No way. No, I just, I got so lucky because at the time they were restructuring some of the SEAL teams to add an extra one, which was Seal Team 7, at least on the west coast. And because of that restructuring, my next workup was really quick and fast. And so that's how I was able to get turn. Turned to the next deployment. And so we were actually in Guam and our Whole Seal Team, Seal Team 3 was reconsolidated in Kuwait for the invasion. And then yeah, we were there and we did. I was a part of the Alpha Peninsula raid, which essentially seal team three as a whole with 40th commando from the UK okay. We took down the really southern point of Basra, which was the Alpha Peninsula. There's some oil rigs which some of our platoons took down. And then I was on the oil field, this really large oil field. And but that was the only operation I did on that deployment because when I came back I had orders to screen, you know, to development, development group selection. So.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, but that, that, that operation that you guys said, and the oil tankers, oil fields, oil rigs. Yeah, that was, that was a SEAL team wide operation.

[Alex West]

Very rare as was there. That never happens.

[Brent Tucker]

Team wide operations.

[Alex West]

I have not heard of one since. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. I might just be ignorant to it, but I've, I'd never heard of one before that or so I'm not saying it's. I'm sure somebody might throw something in the comments. But like, as far as I remember, it was very rare. And I remember it was, it's rare just to have a wholesale team deployed together.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

Let alone, you know, one big. It was a very large, as far as like nautical miles in between all the targets. It was, it was interesting. I'm proud to be a part of it. You know, especially on the white side type operation. We the guys did a good job.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Those are the type operations where like the, the amazing part of that and especially as a, as a, as a younger assaulter, I don't think I would have been able to wrap my, my head around it. It's not necessarily the tactics, you know, of that. Like you just get, just get the boys a target there.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

They'll, they'll get the job done.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

But that becomes the task, like logistically moving a whole team simultaneously or near simultaneously to multiple different targets with certain amount of resources and then having bump plans in case one doesn't get there. Absolutely. Just the, the planning part of that had to be just enormous. On leadership.

[Alex West]

Absolutely. And the ERA. Right. Because we're talking 2003. Right. I mean, it's easy now. You know, when I reflect back, you know, 10 years later, when we've been at war forever, it's like things were just, you know, the leaders had been mentored by other leaders and this and that. This how it's always been. But this was like the leaders hadn't never been in combat. You know, the, in the SEAL teams at least there was a couple little things like Grenada, Panama type thing. But reality was we had a lot of our tactics were based on Vietnam.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And some, some basic, you know, some modern stuff, but not really, not in that era. We hadn't gotten there quite yet.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. I, you know, I got into combat around 4 interval 4.05. So by the time I got there, maybe a guy had two rotations, but everyone had one rotation. And at least kind of at least felt like at the time knew what they were doing.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

But I remember talking to guys both in the Tier 1 level on the white side that were part of invasions and they were like, we, we really didn't know. In hindsight, we didn't know anything. We were figuring it out. Like we were really weak on mobility.

[Alex West]

Oh yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Really weak on. Just on planning. We were really weak on night work. We thought we had this, but when it came to it, we. We did not.

[Alex West]

So we had to.

[Brent Tucker]

And we had to make it up

[Alex West]

on the, you know, prisoner handling. All of these, like, little things that, you know, guys perhaps might take advantage. Not take advantage of, but they might not take for Christ, just take for granted. But like, in that era, it was like, right, how do you sse? Like, what is sse?

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And. Yeah, I. We had. We had on my ODA at several ODAs, had to send a representative to the SODIF because in. Oh. I say, oh, four, because the FBI was giving a class to everyone. How they do ssc. That's how they did the sketch, how they took the pictures, how they labeled rooms, how they labeled compounds. And we had to take that back to our teams and tell everyone else how. How we do it.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And it was like I said, we. And that was years into the war, and we're still trying to figure out, refine this process.

[Alex West]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

The. And I think you told me some. A story about, like, mobility.

[Alex West]

Yes, that.

[Brent Tucker]

That was something you guys like. I'm not sure if we. I think you said, I'd never done this where. I've never done nods driving.

[Alex West]

No, that's a great point. I'm glad you brought it up. Yeah. During the Afghan on that pre. My first deployment, we ended up doing some mechanized reconnaissance. Obviously, that Afghan invasion, hats off to SF teams. That was all them. They did a great job, all that. You know, we, though, were doing some mechanized reconnaissance below Kandahar. Nothing too crazy, you know, but. But it was cool. Like, I mean, you're talking like, for me, that was like, oh, my gosh. But. But I remember my platoon chief saying, like, hey, Alex, you're going to be one of the drivers. Let me back up. We didn't have. We just inherited some Humvees.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

Right. It wasn't like we worked up with these, and it was part of our team. It was like we got these Humvees together, right. And then. And I remember my platoon chief saying, like, you're going to be one of the drivers. And. And have you ever driven on nods? And I remember telling him, no, no, I. I'm, you know, I can foot patrol on nods, like, thinking I'm all, Joe Cool. And he's like, yeah, cool story. He was like, well, you need to start doing laps around Camp Rhino, which was like, this airfield out in. Outside of Kandahar. Just. And we were just doing laps, just getting time. He's like, he's like, I want you guys to just keep doing laps all night. Well, not all night but like just right. You're, we're going out a couple nights and you're just gonna get good at this. Changing tires on Nods. All of these things where we were did, did not have any of that background in nsw.

[Brent Tucker]

At least I'm telling you that that's another really good point and I'm, I'm glad he thought about that. Changing tires under nods. Yes. Or it's oddly enough even changing tires during the daytime. It's just not something, something we learned and figured out that we're operating this really rocky terrain and.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And you will get a flat. Oh for sure. And you don't want to be static and stuck for hours and hours on end when it should be a drill you can knock out in 15, 30 minutes.

[Alex West]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

On the road.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

If you've ever been to any of my tactical training classes, then you know how adamant I am about the use of white light and the importance of a quality high powered tactical light. That's why I use cloud defensive tac lights. You can't hit what you can't see and neither can the bad guys. Clearly identify your target and simultaneously overwhelm his vision with hundreds and even thousands of lumens. Get serious about defending yourself and and your family. Go to clouddefensive.com and use promo code tier one to get 30% off your order. That's right, 30%. You won't find a better light than this and you won't find a better deal than this. Do you remember what, what NODS you had back then?

[Alex West]

Yes. Okay, let me make sure I get this right. The original ones were. We were stoked. We were happy. We had PVS 15s, not PVS 15 Alphas, but like 15. We. But we had just upgraded from the seven Charlie's or seven Bravos or something. So like the. So they were the dual which was like we had just gotten right before we left and. Because before that. Yeah. It was like the, like the single old school.

[Brent Tucker]

So just. So the 14s were the. Just the monoculars.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And we had those.

[Alex West]

I believe we had some of those too.

[Brent Tucker]

Believe it or not. I still saw it was in the inventory at least in an OH4 05. Some guys on the team, or not on the team, on the. In the inventory still had those seven Charlie, seven Deltas still in the inventory.

[Alex West]

Oh yeah, we had them. Yeah, yeah, that's there. Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And then, and then we went to the 14s the monocular. I don't think we got 15s for years after that. You guys were way ahead of us. Let me. It was a couple years after.

[Alex West]

Yeah. So now that I think about. So I had 15s, I think because I was a driver. Now that I think about it. And I think before that it was a mono. Like. Yeah, you're. To your point. The monocle. So. So maybe half of us or a few of us had the 15s, but there's a reason for it. Like, you're the driver. It wasn't. I'm sure as a new guy, I would have just been stuck with the monocle, like just that one.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, I'm sure you were. You were the envy of the team.

[Alex West]

No. 1.

[Brent Tucker]

Everyone wants to have the. The latest gear, the newest gear, the

[Alex West]

newest gloves, the coolest bump. 2. I think I didn't even have an aim point. It was like a reflex site, I think, at the time. Yeah. So it's so crazy, especially, like, beginning

[Brent Tucker]

of the war, like, we're starting to get some new equipment, but not. We didn't. You didn't always have enough new equipment for every. So when somebody gets new equipment that not everyone gets, they.

[Alex West]

They.

[Brent Tucker]

They become the talk of the team. Where'd you. Where'd you get that?

[Alex West]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh, yeah. They were just giving them out at log. They don't have enough for everyone. So you just got enough for yourself.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. You got. For you. I'm glad you're good, bro. Yeah, it was a big deal early on, especially the early years. Yeah, for sure, man.

[Brent Tucker]

The. So when you came back to. To screen for Dev Group, what had. Had that. Had that screening go and you're still young.

[Alex West]

I was very young. Yeah. I was fortunate because that same platoon chief, his name is Todd Schreibad, a mentor and a very close friend of mine still to this day. He had just come from the development group and he rolled right into our platoon chief. And so I remember him just being better at everybody and everything and just being like, like shooting tactics, mindset, all the things. And. And I didn't know too much about development group, however, outside of, like Rogue Warrior book, we were just talking about.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

I didn't know anybody who had been there. I just. On the west coast, you weren't around it and so. But when I saw him especially, like, tactically, it was like, there's something different. And I really looked up to him. And I remember at the time, Dev Group was looking to kind of change up their selection because historically it was older guys who had screened, so maybe late 20s, early 30s, and they were just going to try out where they could bring in a younger guy. And my platoon chief was like, you know, you might want to just. They're looking for maybe younger. You might want to give a shot. And I was still like, imposter syndrome. Like, I don't know. Like, I'd done one platoon, and at the time, I was 22 and 21. 20. Yeah. Somewhere around there. And he kind of gave me the little, like, nudge, like, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? Like, okay, you don't get picked up, so you go back next year or the following year. So I went for it. And I remember being intimidated, very intimidated. But fortunately, I got picked up at 22, and then at 23, when I got back from Iraq is when I went through selection.

[Brent Tucker]

So you screened, you got picked up, and then you go back to Iraq?

[Alex West]

Yeah, yeah, I just go on that second deployment because the class wasn't going to start until we got back, roughly when we got back. And then when we were in Iraq, the master chief of the SEAL team was actually an old dev group guy, too. After that first hit in Alpha, he said, all right, all you brought in, all the guys who had screened and had orders, hey, guys, here's the thing. You need to make a decision. You're either gonna go to screen, or we're driving with the Marines up to Baghdad. And I just need to know right now. And I. I want. I was like, I don't know. Like, that sounds pretty exciting, you know, like. Like, with the. You know, and then. And then he said. And I told him that, and he's like, you know what? These wars aren't going to go anywhere. And trust me, if you're going to want to be in these, I'm going to recommend. You're going to kick yourself if you're not at a JSOC SALT team, at least giving it a shot. So I took his advice, and I'm glad I did. I mean, I would have been fine either way.

[Brent Tucker]

That is good advice.

[Alex West]

Yeah, it really is.

[Brent Tucker]

Did it. It must have hurt a little bit thinking that they could go on without you.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah, it was hard. It was hard.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

Yeah. Because at the time, too, I did. We did not know Iraq would turn into what it was.

[Brent Tucker]

Was. Right.

[Alex West]

And at the time, even Afghanistan was. Was kind of at a. You know, we're talking 2002, 2003. So it was. It was like the initial invasion happened, and Then a lot of we're trying to figure out our intelligence and all of that. So it wasn't exactly like outside of Anaconda and all of that. I don't want to minimize that. But there was a couple things, but overall it was, was this all going to die down and am I going to miss it? So I was nervous and my, my team, my platoon, you know. All right, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

The audacity them though, to push the Baghdad without their first ring player.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, I mean, still to this

[Alex West]

day, like, what are you guys thinking? You had a 22 year old ginger. You know what I mean? Who knows what could have happened. You sure you guys would be okay without me? Like, we'll totally fine. Well, that's exactly what the Master Chief said. I was like, well, I don't know. And he's like, we're gonna be just fine. Trust me. Like, like almost like laughing in my face and like kind of like, okay, thank you Master Chief. I'll just shut up and go. Wouldn't be the first time that happened actually. The subtleties of being humbled sometimes is a lot. Take my ball, go over here then. Fine, fine. I'll go to screening and hopefully make it.

[Brent Tucker]

Did, did, did your age come up at all in the, in the screening process?

[Alex West]

Absolutely, yeah. In the screening process. I remember them asking me like, hey, you know, we're trying this out, you know, if, if we decide to pick you up, you know, we're going to try this out with you. And, and fortunately I had that opportunity. And, and because of the timing of the restructuring of the SEAL teams, I was able to get there so young. And when I did though, even the cadre also, it wasn't like, yeah, he's cool, he's young. Let's like, it's like, I wouldn't say I got extra attention, but it was certainly. They were, they're gatekeepers. As they should be. As it should be. And they, and they didn't obviously care, but they. I feel like I got a little extra as I should have. Yeah, yeah, a little extra. But it was fair like that. I remember one cadre in particular, Turbo was very fair and, and he certainly kept the standard, but okay. He kind of, there's guys that were.

[Brent Tucker]

I've, I've been to his sniper summit.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And I've, I've had, I've had drinks out of his prosthetic.

[Alex West]

Oh, same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I don't know if you can hang out with Turbo without drinking out of his Prosthetic leg. And if you haven't, you should be ashamed of yourself. You're missing out, you know, the.

[Brent Tucker]

So you make it. You make it through the teams. When you first get to Red Squadron, I'd imagine, like, are you still feeling the pressure of being what is probably just gonna. At the time. Yes. The youngest operator at the time.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

To pass.

[Alex West]

Yeah. Guys after me, there was. Other guys are 23. I don't. But yes, there was. It was an uphill battle for me for a while. I mean, just like any, I would imagine, from your old unit, too. You're. You just show up and it's like, take the trash out. But I was also young, right. So it was.

[Brent Tucker]

There's. I think it's a weird, almost like, dichotomy to it because on. On one side, you're. You're very young, and so you'd think, like, there's still that kind of pressure on you, but the other side, you have passed Green Team. You have met the standard. You have proven that. That. That you deserve to be here. So. Yeah, that's why I wonder if you still felt that way on the teams or they look at you and be like, well, you. You met the standard, and now it's. You know, it's whatever you do, regardless of age, that proves you need to be here. Or do you feel like there was scrutiny of your age still?

[Alex West]

I think there was a little bit of both. I think there was, you know, certainly I made it, and it wasn't like they were like, you don't deserve to be here. But there was an age thing, too. But at the end of the day, you know, we were hitting target. You know, I was on target and all that. So there's maybe it was more of, like, a little bit of extra, like, trash talking a little bit, but it was, like, very. It wasn't like. So it was more of. I mean, I felt honored to be on that, you know, at that age, because I remember during the screening process, the cadre, when they did take a chance on me, they were like, you know, the reason why we're trying this out at least, is because you could. Historically, you know, you could do another five years at a SEAL team or you could get here younger and develop the tactics and techniques and get molded in our vision of how we want it done.

[Brent Tucker]

Right?

[Alex West]

And so by the time you move up the ranks and become, like, an assault team leader, you've been there forever, and you have a ton of reps, and you hopefully maximize your potential.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, it's funny that they described it like that. We had. We had a sith guy and with a lot of experience in my otc, and he didn't make it. And it's not because he wasn't good enough or he wasn't proficient. He was very proficient in the way they did business. But the problem is, is once you have that many reps doing business a certain way, as you're well aware, it doesn't mean the way he did business was wrong.

[Alex West]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

But we all have to do business the same way.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And it's now, this. This year one standard way.

[Alex West]

It's.

[Brent Tucker]

It's this way. And I think the muscle memory was just too deeply ingrained for him to do business our way. And it was. It really was. It's kind of tough to watch him go because, like, that's one of the best. Best guys in. In the class.

[Alex West]

And that happens in the Navy. On the Navy side, too. Because even when, well, I went through or when I was an instructor there of selection, you would see that guys who had spent a lot of time in the SEAL team, so had great reputations, but they had a lot of experience. However, they had. They were. They had a lot of. I wouldn't say bad habits. They just had. They just knew the techniques that. That they were trained, which were maybe a little different than what selection was, and it was hard to get out of that. Ruth.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

So, yeah, I. I've seen the same thing. Like, great guys, too. It just didn't work out.

[Brent Tucker]

What. What year did you get to Red Squadron?

[Alex West]

I went through green team in 03, so right after that, and I was there from 03 to 14.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. Was it off to Afghanistan from there?

[Alex West]

Yes. Yeah. My first deployment was to Afghanistan and an Omega in Skin Afghanistan in Paktika, way out right on the border. And. Yeah, that was my first deployment with Red.

[Brent Tucker]

That's a. That's a unique deployment, in fact. So tell people what the.

[Alex West]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

What the Omega teams are. Some people have heard about them. I've heard people talk about them before and be. And be wrong, but surprisingly enough, like, how many people don't know what an Omega team is? What. What is the. The. The mega teams.

[Alex West]

Yeah, I'd be happy to talk about it. What the Omega teams were. Were CIA's, paramilitary, and they would take. So they had their own guys that were kind of like their primary, I would say leaders and, you know, like, would lead their units or their indigenous, indigenous forces. However, because they were not part of Department of Defense, they couldn't call in airstrikes, they couldn't call in medevac helicopters or anything like that. So JSOC at the time or dev group at the time in Afghanistan would chop over a few guys, depended on the outstation, on the size and number. Like when I was in Chicane we had a lot actually we had about 12 guys, but usually. Yeah, but that was very rare. Yeah, usually it was, I would say two actual assaulters and then maybe a JTAC and a medic that would support. And then maybe like a comms support guy or something like that. But. And you essentially would be part of almost an advisory force within that hitting targets.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I think just because again, not a whole lot of people know about them. People, whether they know or not, they'll, they'll, they'll fill that information void with opinions and things that they've heard.

[Alex West]

Yeah, totally.

[Brent Tucker]

And, and really just speaking of Afghanistan specifically, because there could be things that I don't know about as well, but ground branch is very, they're really more like, you know, people again will think that they're. There's very mythical place and they do these, you know, black op jobs all over the world, but in Afghanistan they were essentially just very high paid Green Berets.

[Alex West]

Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly what it was. That's exactly what it was with, with

[Brent Tucker]

not a fraction of the resources of an oda.

[Alex West]

No. Cowboys.

[Brent Tucker]

It really was cowboy stuff.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And they got paid well and they, and they lived in great places, great gyms. They had their own chef.

[Alex West]

They did. You were, you were stoked if you were going to. I mean outside of Shkin. Actually the first one, that was pretty rugged. But when I was at another one in Jalalabad, it, it was exactly that. It was. You couldn't, guys would fight over it to be like, I want to go there. Do they have a chef? They have this and that. You know, it was the whole thing.

[Brent Tucker]

Your own big room.

[Alex West]

Oh yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

The great. Oh yeah. Your own room. It was huge. Yeah.

[Alex West]

Almost like a hotel.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. But I'm telling you there's like, it was just never a job that, that I was interested in.

[Alex West]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

And that's, and I'm not, you know, discounting that job. I'm saying just me personally, you know, like the, the money was great, but like I said, those boys are really hanging, hanging it out there.

[Alex West]

Much respect to those guys.

[Brent Tucker]

They needed, again like you, like you said, they needed DoD to be attached to them because they needed your resources.

[Alex West]

Yes, absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

Really did. And some of those Guys got into some nasty firefights.

[Alex West]

They sure did. Yeah, they really did. And they would turn and burn. They do a lot of deployments and they would hang it out and yeah,

[Brent Tucker]

here's one thing that, you know, that I'll put a positive on it is because of the way their, their structure and oversight worked. At least they didn't have to fight with the siege of Soda and get, you know, at least they had some freedom of movement and the oversight was there. But I don't believe it was, it was as suffocating as on, on certain parts of the military side.

[Alex West]

Right. Yeah, they didn't have as much, you know, quote unquote red tape or. Yeah, like infighting or whatever competition it was. They just had their partner force and. Yeah, like to your point, just high paid ODA teams essentially with a couple JSAW guys attached and, and there was a lot of really good operations that they did. A lot of really kinetic stuff and, and we're definitely a force multiplier in regions and, and yeah, yeah, a lot of guys did a lot of good stuff happened from that.

[Brent Tucker]

So you enjoyed your, your, the Omega missions?

[Alex West]

I did.

[Brent Tucker]

If, if it wasn't an omega mission, what was the, what was the alternative?

[Alex West]

The alternative was actually, in my opinion, cooler. It was the strike force. Right. I mean, just as, you know, an assaulter like through and through. At least where I was, where I, for me, I just loved, you know, assaulting, kill houses, shooting and so that's what I wanted to be on. I mean I wasn't. So you'd rotate out maybe one deployment. You'd be on a assault force that would take down just, just you know, dev group seals taking down targets around the country. Or you're a mega, you're kind of rotating one deployment, doing one next the other.

[Brent Tucker]

Then at one point. Do you know why you guys gave that mission up to the Rangers already?

[Alex West]

Yeah, that's a great question, if I recall. And we started needing more force multiplying basically because we had, you know, we were sending guys over to Iraq also to support the army. And then we. Yeah, we just didn't have enough because then we'd have a strike force. Oh yeah, we had multiple strike forces in Afghanistan. Now at a certain point when Iraq started winding down, Afghanistan kind of started picking up and then with that became intelligence that started finding more targets. Because for a while there the effort was just. In Iraq it was like all about. You were almost like the bastard children if you went to Afghanistan. Like no joke, we were on a. I Remember, on a strike force, we were the strike force for the whole country. And there was maybe like 15 assaulters on it, and we would. And. And there wasn't much intelligence infrastructure, all that. So I think when it shifted back to Afghanistan, there was just more of a request for forces, and RD was a great unit to help with that. And then over time, it slowly, when the Rangers started taking over, I think we pulled out, started moving to other aos, and that's, that's what it is. I mean, that's how I recall it at least.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

The. I think it's cool that you guys got an opportunity to go over to Iraq with us. A little, little bit of tier one history.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

When Iraq kicked off, we Basically, the tier one units split the, the AOS. Like seal 26, you're gonna take over and stay in Afghanistan. Delta Force, you're going to go to Iraq.

[Alex West]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

And then at some point when we surged.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

We got so busy. I'm sure you guys didn't want to leave Afghanistan, but a phone call was made like we could use some help over here. Would you like to come over here?

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And you guys left the, The. The. The paradise that is Afghanistan.

[Alex West]

The jewel of Asia. Yeah, No, whatever. But I guess.

[Brent Tucker]

And you're. You're on the, The. The few beginning troop or personnel to come over and work with us.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And I think that was really cool.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah. I mean, we were to set contacts. You know, we were, we were professionally jealous of, of the army because they were, you know, we were hearing about it like, you know, they were daily operations in the environment, too. Street battle, you know, like, that type of thing was just so designed for that. And, you know, we were in Afghanistan and, you know, doing good stuff, but it was, you know, we were like, oh, man, if we could just get over there. I just want the experience. And then fortunately, General McChrystal at the time, who was JSOC commander, was like, hey, you guys are so alike. There's some, like, old school weird rivalry going on. That's not that healthy. You're going to do exchanges.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

Because you're more alike than you're different. I'm going to show you why. And so I remember on that, my first deployment, 04 actually, we had some guys from C squadron with us, great guys that came with us. And then the next. And we had a team that went with them. And then that next tour in 05 is when I went over and I felt very fortunate. And there was. When I remember landing in Ramadi A guy who picked me up was a guy by the name of Bob Horgan. And he was one of the biggest mentors I ever had in my whole career. And he, right off the bat, picked me up because I was nervous. I was young, and I would actually went over there because of a request for forces, because at the time they had C squad and very kinetic deployment. And instead of pulling guys from North Carolina, they're like, hey, do you guys have a few extra? Just shooters. That's all we need, just some more shooters. So I was part of that. And Bob picked me up at the airport. So I was, you know, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm nervous. I'm young. I haven't really worked up with these guys. What are they gonna think about, you know, all these, like, things, Right?

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And he picked me up, and right off the bat, he's like, you're my shooting somebody. And, like, like, we're gonna be friends. And I was like. And he was older. He was like, 39. He was an old B squadron guy. He came over his last pump.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And I was like, he's kind of like a great reputation. I was like, okay, roger that. And. And then, yeah, he was the team breacher. And he was like, do you breach? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, well, I'm gonna show you how we do. I know it's similar, but let me just show you how we do it. And we would just trade off every night. Like, if I would do the breach, he'd be my security guy. The next one, we'd swap off. And we did that forever, Became really close friends. And, you know, unfortunately, we were. That deployment continued to get more kinetic, and we lost Bob and Mike McNulty on an operation. And those guys, you know, I still think about them, especially Bob. He had one of the biggest impacts of any operator on me in my life.

[Brent Tucker]

Man, I'm so glad you told that story. I. I personally love that story, because as much as the. The Internet and social media wants us to have this who's better? Delta Force versus SEAL Team six beef, it's just not there. And. And we've worked along with each other for years, and the. The common respect that the two units have at an. At an assaulter.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Point to point level is massive.

[Alex West]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

Is absolutely massive. And for the. Yeah, for Bob, you know, was probably one of the. The oldest, you know, at that time. And in that place. Assaulters.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Come pick up the new guy.

[Alex West]

Like the old guy. Pick up the young guy, come here.

[Brent Tucker]

You're my shooting buddy.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

There's no choice. He's like, you're my shooting buddy. And I was like, roger that. Yeah. And he's like, and we're gonna be friends. I was like, yeah, roger that. I'm like, I don't know anybody, so. Yeah, I'd love to have a friend a little nervous, right? You know? Yeah. And. And he just broke down and like that. Nerves. And he was just a great. And you're right. Like, it's, you know, of course there's like, there, There might be like a good little rivalry in there where it's. In a good way. A good way. It's like, yeah. You know, from my, you know, it's like, did you hear about, you know, what the army guys are doing with this technique or this technology is like, what? No, that's a good idea. Like, I want to know more. Or. And so there's like, it's good. But I think what General McChrystal noticed was like, hey, this is not. This is going past that. This is ridiculous. And you're right. And it's. And I, I, ever since then, I. Even before that, I obviously respected the army guys, but it was after that, I was like, I really felt. It wasn't just Bob. It was. The whole crew brought me in, and I really felt like I was. I was an assaulter, like a straight up part of the team.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, his plan, the crystal's plan obviously worked because when he was like, hey, there's some sort of, like, unhealthy almost, you know, competition here, because by the, by the time I got there several years later, I, I never saw it. I didn't know that really even existed.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Because getting to work, you know, with each other, you know, obviously bridged that. Bridge that, that gap. Absolutely. And that lasted at the beginning of my career, all, all the way to. To the end of my career.

[Alex West]

I'm glad to hear it's still going. Yeah. And I think it was maybe some old school stuff from like the, maybe the 90s or something like that, but, yeah, I, I didn't. Yeah, thankfully that. That happened. And. And I'm glad because later on, when I would go back on other tours to Iraq with my. With a blue troop with the Navy, my, you know, dev. Group troop, it was great because you'd see the other guys and be like, hey, you know, maybe one of our snipers was like, hey, can you introduce me to sniper team leader? And it's like, yeah, let me. I'LL just pull you. I'd be like, hey, what's up, bro? Good to see you. Or the breacher or whatever it might be. It just made things just go so smoothly because we would end up QRFing for each other. We'd be on these 24 hour cycles where maybe the army had the day and we had the night or vice versa. Whatever it was, it just made things go so smooth.

[Brent Tucker]

And, and I love that, that you got that surge experience at the unit. You know those, those surge assaulters are, are looked at with so much respect because of what they did. And to some degree I feel like some people either hear those stories so they just assume like that is tier one life in combat.

[Alex West]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

All the time. And it's just not true. That was the truth, you know, for the surge. Sure. And that's not necessarily true for, for the whole gwat where you guys were going on, you know, nightly missions, two missions a night. You know, you could go on three missions with follow on targets.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

It was just, just getting after it. And America asked literally the smallest.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Units. You're the smallest essentially. Task force.

[Alex West]

Yep.

[Brent Tucker]

And, and, and the whole war to put a massive amount of responsibility on his back. And they did it. They did it. You guys were the ones that kind of started, you know, strike to develop. They're like, right, well, we'll figure it out. Yeah, what, what do you want done? What's your end state? We'll figure it out. And you guys did that.

[Alex West]

Yeah. And, and you're right. There was a lot of weight on those units in that era. And, and a lot of guys did a lot of things. To your point that ALP tempo was crazy, where you could go on two or three ops a night and then go home, take a shower, go to bed, however you might be on QRF for, you know, the, the another. And then you get woken up after a few hours and now you're like, oh my gosh. But like, but it was so exciting and it was exactly what I signed up for.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

But I will say this. It was, it took a toll because there was so much weight on such small. You know, if you look at the grand scope of the military, there was a lot of weight on, on those units specific, especially in Iraq, on the Army. And I want to kind of give a shout out too to the, the Ranger regiment also because they were, they were there with all of those units as well. So it's, you know, those guys all, you know, they were, they're at it too. And TF160. I mean, I go on. Right. Like, I don't want to forget those.

[Brent Tucker]

Those guys have to support.

[Alex West]

I don't want to forget them.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I'm glad you did that actually, because it's so easy. I hate to say it is easy to forgive them because we're always thinking about the guys on the ground.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

But who, who gets. It's there. This is. It's the same unit. All of us there.

[Alex West]

Absolutely. Yeah. And the two, four guys, you know, the controllers and pj, you know, it's just like the, It's. Yeah. And yeah, you're right. And that once again, 60, it's just. Yeah, it was. A lot of guys carried a lot of that, at least that targeting on their shoulders. And, and the casualty rate showed it. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Yes. Yes. The casual rates. Which is, which is why. That's why we asked for just assaulters from you guys. Yeah, it's because assaulters were getting shot.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Not. Not always, you know, killed. But, but we were definitely getting shot up.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, you're coming off of. Might end your career. It's definitely going to take you off of a team for. Oh, yeah, for six months to several. Up to several years depending on. On the injury. And there's. There's a lot of gold stars on the wall at the unit with, with years 04 to 06 next to their name.

[Alex West]

Yeah, yeah. That era was. That was kinetic.

[Brent Tucker]

The. When you guys go back to Afghanistan and you know, the, the war on in Iraq is, is starting to wind down. When. I've always kind of wondered, you go back to Afghanistan, was Afghanistan different? When you go back to Afghanistan, you're like, it's just the same old, same old over here. Or things changed when you go back to Afghanistan.

[Alex West]

Great question. Yeah, no, it. Afghanistan started to really get hot at that point. I mean, compare. I don't want to say. I mean, it's all depending on everybody's personal experience. Right. You know, there might be somebody listening. Like, oh, yeah. In 04, I got, I got it on. But like, but I mean, I'm talking about Rod Stro strokes here. Yeah. Because we were getting better at targeting our intelligence networks were getting better, you know, with all of that and there was more forces now in the area. And also from a JSOC standpoint, in the beginning, a lot of people don't know this, but we weren't allowed to actually go after the Taliban. JSOC wasn't because it was not Al Qaeda, which was, you know, bin Laden and all of that. So which, and I'm talking eras of like maybe like up to 0506, like we weren't allowed. And I remember when they're finally like, oh no, we can finally go after the Taliban, we're like, thank God. Because they were terrorized. They're full on. Like it was a Taliban almost like, you know, counterinsurgency army. And so when the gloves came off of the Taliban, and don't get me wrong, it was, I'm just talking JS, like the regular army ODAs, all these guys were fighting the Taliban. But JSOC had a thing where like, no, we're only going after the high level guys. But then they finally took the gloves off and were like, it's on. And so when that happened and the intelligence got better and then more units got in and I believe when you had more units getting in there, they were developing more intelligence from more targets they're hitting.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

So momentum just started building. And I also think like Iran started supporting more of the Taliban. So there was a lot, it was a different war. When you're talking about maybe 070809 and beyond.

[Brent Tucker]

Right. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. I want to, I mean, I really want to talk to you about the, the UBL rate. I mean, you know, tease it at the beginning if, if guys couldn't tell what I said was a part of arguably the greatest high value target rate of all time, that they're really narrows it down.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

You know, when, when you, when you first heard that you guys were, did you know that was the target? Or at first you're like, they're like, hey, there's just something really special going on. So how'd that had that start?

[Alex West]

It's a great question. Yeah. At first they, they were like, hey, there's something going on. And we had thought that it was something to do with Libya at the time because that's when we were bombing Libya and so, and we had just gotten back from deployment, so we're like, why would they send us? You know, we just got off leave and. But yeah, long story short, they got us in. We, when they finally told us who it was we were going after especially, you know, we'd done 10 years, both us and you know, the army chasing this guy and. Right, right. So it's like, you know, at first when they told us and let me back up, we walked in, there's some really high level people there where I was just thinking, oh, this, there's something going on here.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And then they Briefed us on it. And I remember when they said that, I almost felt like puking just to have a, just to have a human moment. Like. Like what? Like, like, like the man. You know, it's one thing to like talk about it now.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And look back, but I just mean, you know, it's like really, you think you found him? Like, and it's like, yeah, you're gonna, you guys are gonna go after him. And then it was like, oh, like. And I realized how lucky we were to at least be considered because we were, you know, one of several units from JSOC that could have gotten picked. And so, yeah, it felt almost like stomach turning. Exciting. Honored all the, like, a lot of emotions all at once.

[Brent Tucker]

The. So that that year was, was the year like I get into the tier one world. So, you know, the, the white side wasn't getting UBL updates.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah. Okay. As, as a.

[Brent Tucker]

Should be a shock to no one, but essentially after, after Torah, from Tora Bora to here, had you heard of, of any UBL updates or legitimate updates or was it just. He went underground and this is almost the first you're hearing of it, and he's now like a, a target you're looking at?

[Alex West]

Well, we had had some spins in, in anybody. The listeners that don't like spinning is just like getting spun up for a target. Right. Like intelligence is saying it and it's, it's hit or miss, you never know. It's good. And it was always too good to be true. So we, we had had some kind of spins around him. However, it was nothing crazy actionable. And so to answer your question, yes, but nothing to what we, when we were finally briefed on it, where it was like these high ranking and it was like, oh, like this is different than in the past.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, yeah, this does, this doesn't feel like another spin.

[Alex West]

No, no, this is, this is different.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Did after getting that brief, did you, even though it was different, did you still think, did you guys talk like you think we're really going to do this?

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Did you think you were really going to do it?

[Alex West]

Like, there's no way. It was like, yeah, this is cool, but like, there's no way. And then it's like, right. To be honest, you know, we were honored and all that, but just knowing realistically, right. It was like, okay, we just got back from deployment, now we have to do another workup. It was a time in our workup cycle where it's like guys were supposed to go to schools. We had already Trips planned. So guys that have pulled the trips that they'd already been, you know, planning for. So I'm not saying that, like, guys were grumbling, but it was almost like, oh, this better go. But. Right. You know, but we don't know. And that's the world that, you know, as, you know, that. That's just kind of that world.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. Yeah. I've had people joke about me, you should write a book. And I was like, you don't really want to read a book about the things I've done. The cooler book would have been the things I almost, almost did.

[Alex West]

Yeah, totally. I could write a really cool book

[Brent Tucker]

about things we almost did.

[Alex West]

We should have done. Yeah, totally.

[Brent Tucker]

The. When they, when they get the. The mockup built, I'm sure when. When you're. When you're doing rehearsals on a mockup, like, it's gotta. It's gotta feel. It's. It's got to feel like it's gaining momentum. Like, maybe. Hold on. Maybe like we're hitting a mockup.

[Alex West]

We're starting to get more believable.

[Brent Tucker]

The. I don't want to get too far into to the actual mission, but the mockup itself, compared to when. When you guys went in there, how. How close was that mock structure?

[Alex West]

It was impressively close considering the amount of time of like when they decided to make it.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

And throw it up and there, you know, the internal structure was. We didn't know. And so it was mostly movement from the outside. Okay. You know, of like coordinating the. The Hilo assets, you know, coordinating kind of like we're blocking position, you know, like kind of the big picture stuff. And so. But we didn't know what the flow was on the inside and.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

And we had to plan for things. We didn't know if he had like a, you know, he was going to bunker himself in like in a safe or something like that. You know, we. Suicide, you know, all these contingencies and so. But it was surprisingly accurate for the amount of time.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

However, the chain link fence that we thought was the big wall that went around it, that was part of the reason why the helicopter ended up crashing. Because it was planning for. As the helicopter hovered, the team. I was in, the helicopter I was in was going to fast drop right in the middle of the courtyard.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

However, there's these tall walls around it. Right. And it created like a. There's a certain fancy word for it, but essentially the rotor wash help because it was hitting the sides of the wall and not during the mock up. Was the chain link fence where the wash.

[Brent Tucker]

I see. Yes. Yeah, I see what you mean.

[Alex West]

Yeah. And, and because that spun it out of control and thankfully that right it properly.

[Brent Tucker]

I, I have. Even though I've talked to, you know, several guys from the mission before, I don't think I've ever asked this question what you guys ended up doing on this mission. As far as Manning from. From my organization.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

How you guys basically went two ICs and up couple. A couple three ics. That kind of how the Manning went.

[Alex West]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

Basically. Or the all star team, if you will. You like, we'll take the senior guys on this. When I heard you guys did that, I had mixed emotions about that.

[Alex West]

Did you really? Yeah, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Because I was like, man, I don't know. You stay organic. Because for, for us and in my squadron, it's not drastically different, but each troop can, you know, has some different ideas about how things should. Should be done. Heck, I'll, I'll tell you. We, we have a troop that, that loves white light CQB for hr.

[Alex West]

Sure.

[Brent Tucker]

And we have one troop that's like, why would you ever do that? Blacked out, you know, is how you should do hr. And one troops, like, well, we can, we can move faster with white light. And it's hr, so we have to move fast. And the other troops, like, we can move just as fast under nods and you can. And it's, it is an argument that. That never ends. Yes, but that's what I mean. You can have different, you know, tactics even within the troops. So for, for us, I don't believe that we would, that we would ever, ever do that. But again, it's not a knock. I would understand, I would understand why you would do that. How do you know how that came about? So has that ever happened before or since?

[Alex West]

That had never happened before. I don't recall it happening. I, I don't know. In my knowledge, my experience, I had not heard of it post. I believe it was, it was. We were told like, these are the guys going. And it was like, okay. And a lot of us were like, why don't we just, to your point, just make it like a troop. I get it. There's, you know, if my troop doesn't get picked, I'll be pissed, but. Right. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like that. But it's like, I don't want to say anything because I'm on them. Like, maybe they'll be like, okay, cool, Alex. Like, but, but, but it was already kind of chosen for us. And. And I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying it was the wrong call, because it worked out fine.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

However. Exactly. The thing, though, that. That made it complicated was, you know, there's all those little organic things that are in there. Like, let's say there's a guy who's like the truck rep, who, like, gets the vans to go drive to the range and fills them up. Right. Like, just the most basic stuff. Right. All of a sudden, I remember we had a day of that. We're going to the range or something as we were doing the workup, and they're like, everybody was a team leader or a two. So, like, of course I'm never grabbing the truck. I did that when I was a new guy. And, like, we're looking around and being like, oh, we don't even. Okay, somebody needs to, you know, or, like, take the trash out all this, like, silly stuff and. Or who's the team breacher? Or who's the. You know.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And then it's like, everybody's team leaders. Well, who's the team leader, then?

[Brent Tucker]

Who's a team leader of the team.

[Alex West]

Of the team leaders. Right. Because somebody has to be like, you know, in charge, like, where somebody has to kind of be like, I understand this guy is. And so we ended up working that out of where there was essentially team leaders of team leaders or two ICs and that type of thing. But it was some growing pains. It was not my call. I'm not knocking on it because it worked out. However it would have perhaps been. I'm surprised that happened because if we just took an internal troop and just did it, all this stuff has already been worked out of, like, who's in charge and all of that because.

[Brent Tucker]

Because of its term. I'll tell you the term here in a second. I don't know if you guys have something similar, but I feel like you do. I'm sure we would. We would figure that out through what we call tid. So whenever there's like. Like two team leaders and someone has to be in charge of it, like, well, what's. Who's. Who's got. Who's got the most tid, which stands for time and delta.

[Alex West]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Yeah, yeah. Similar. Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

So you could have the same position, but you can. But you can have different. Different amounts of. Of time and Delta.

[Alex West]

Yes, there is definitely.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

Maybe it's like time and Dove Griffin. I just made it. But, like, it's also same thing, but See, we're so similar. But like, I think there was that. But there's also like a little caveat asterisk where if there's always like that doesn't. Sometimes if somebody is, I don't know better, you know, if somebody just has tenure, it's like, no, this, there is that little asterisk. I don't mean that. Like every time that might be a one off. Yeah, but there's always that. And perhaps it's the same with you guys.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm sure. But when you guys start pushing forward to Afghanistan, which, you know, you guys launched from, do, do you, do you believe at this point, like, hey, we're going forward. Do you believe you're 100% doing this mission?

[Alex West]

No. Still. Still didn't think so. I, I remember, I won't name his name. One of my best buddies. We were like, there's no way. The whole time, like we were saying that even as we were getting on the buses to get on the helicopters, we looked at each other just as an inside joke. We're like, there's no way. And then I really thought that until we were on the helicopters, I was still thinking, no, there's. Because we were gonna, we're traveling closer to India than we were Afghanistan. Of how deep it was into the country. And I just thought there's no way that President Obama is gonna give the, the thumbs up because we still didn't. I didn't believe it was 100 he was there. And so just from my background in targeting and. But as soon as I remember the helicopter started taxing and still thinking, no, no, no, this is just what we're just posturing. And all of a sudden it was like, it started to like, you could tell, like the engines were starting to hover and it just started taking off. And I was just like, well, I'll be damned. Like, okay, okay.

[Brent Tucker]

I've always said this and I will always give credit where credit's due. I don't think people. Because you, you, you already kind of referenced it. Sure, it's, it's ubl, but we have had, whether it be politicians and their, and their lack of, or their, their risk adverseness, there's a lot of things that play in to sending a tier one unit into another country that's not Afghanistan or Iraq. Like you're, you're, you are invading a sovereign country.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

That may or may not be your ally.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And Pakistan was probably our worst ally ever. When. In, in that war in some aspects. But to send a raiding force into A country, you're on good terms.

[Alex West]

It's ballsy. That's why. And that's another reason why I was like, I don't know if it's gonna happen. It's just too ballsy.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And I've always, I've always given them, you know, credit for that because credit do.

[Alex West]

Absolutely. And I'll give you one more that I don't know if it's been said before, maybe it has, but I remember as we were presenting our mission and we had heard about how the Pakistanis had F16s and how, you know, we were worried, of course we might, there's anti aircraft, all this stuff. But we were worried about that, especially on the way back. And the President asked us, well, why? What do we have in case they launch their F16s to go after helicopters? And we didn't have an answer. And I believe because we wanted to make sure the mission like that was going to escalate things.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And the President said, what kind of airplane, you know, what do we have? And I think it was F15s. He was like, I want to make sure we have as many F15s. I don't care. Like if, if Pakistani F16s come after our guys in Pakistan, then we're going to protect our guys. So I just kind of want to. That's maybe a little known thing, but

[Brent Tucker]

more credit where credit's due.

[Alex West]

Yeah, credit where credit's due because. And we heard that and I remember being like, whoa. Like that is even more ballsy. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Because again, I mean, I don't think people really realize what we're doing. Like, yeah, there is a force that invaded, you know, another country. You don't. I mean there's some safe assumptions of what it is, but if they Want to send F16s to push your way to at least investigate you, they have every right to do so and probably should.

[Alex West]

I don't blame them. Right.

[Brent Tucker]

Don't blame them. And their reward for doing the right thing is to get their pilots killed and their F16s knocked out of the sky for doing something they had every right to do.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Just to protect you guys.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

That's a ballsy move by the President. It's the right call, but it's not as cut and dry as I think some people look at or think when you look at like holistically.

[Alex West]

I can agree more.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. The. When. I don't know how many times you probably answered this question on, in real life, the stealth helicopter. When did that thing show up? You know, you Know, I was. I was in after you for. For years. I've never seen one.

[Alex West]

I had never seen one since. Maybe because one doesn't exist anymore because we crashed one, so there's that.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

But, you know, I don't go too much into it, but we saw it in. The first time. We saw it out in, you know, out in a desert compound.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

You know, we saw it. We trained with a little bit of it, and then we. And then they showed up. They met us overseas.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay, so it wasn't. It wasn't. Overseas, was.

[Alex West]

No, no, we actually saw it in the States and did a little bit of a workup.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay. Were you impressed with it?

[Alex West]

Yeah, I had no idea that that was even a thing. And. And it was. It was cool. I mean, it was a 60 that had been basically tricked out.

[Brent Tucker]

All right. Yeah. I don't. Of the. I have a couple questions, but I want to be respectful and careful and.

[Alex West]

Yeah, I'll let you know. You know, it's all good.

[Brent Tucker]

You just let me know. Yeah. Was it. Was it designed to be, as I understand it, also be quieter? Like the blade noise, the vessels of the. Quieter.

[Alex West]

That's. That's how I recall. I don't know, because a lot of it was quick and fast, and it was just, hey, here they are. Let's work up. We were really, to be honest, concerned about, okay, how we get in, how we. The doors, you know, the fast. Like more of, like the down and in, at least where I was at. And it was like more of, like, where do we store the fast reps? How do we get them? When do we put them outside of. Because it's different than a standard 60. So it's like, okay, do we swing them? You know, so we're working out kind of that, but I don't. I don't know. That's where my mind was more in that. Like, inside the helicopter and fast roping out.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. I don't think people realize how. How loud. I think they. Well, I think they do realize how. Well, they may not. How loud helicopters are, because the movies will. Will make it look like we're having a conversation on.

[Alex West]

On.

[Brent Tucker]

On the Hilo. You're not having a conversation.

[Alex West]

No.

[Brent Tucker]

Even through headsets, it's. Sometimes you really gotta press them up.

[Alex West]

Like turn down your propeller. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. And really try to concentrate on. On what's getting put out. They're very loud. Besides just being very loud inside the Hilo, you know, when I'm waiting to get picked up from target, depending on terrain, and wind, you might be able to hear those hilos from a, from a long ways away. And I remember being picked up at night and kind of realizing that and be like if someone's really listening for this, there's indicators that, that were coming for, for a long period of time.

[Alex West]

Especially if there isn't like white noise like surrounding noise like in a city. If it's like in Afghanistan and mountain valley where you can't, you can hear anything. Yeah. And yeah, you're right. So.

[Brent Tucker]

So to have a helicopter that has a reduction in decibels with, with its blades really shortens the amount of time that they know we're here, which is huge. Especially on a, on. On a target like this.

[Alex West]

It was. Yeah, we needed everything that we could, you know, like stack half a here, a percent there. And to be honest there, even as we're. There's a lot of little things in there. Like weight was a big thing. Like we would always of course travel speedballs. Right. Extra for listeners like extra ammunition or water, food. The thing was we couldn't do that. Yeah. And I remember even weight wise on our own gear, like I ended up losing a pistol and I ended up only having like four mags and I wanted way more because the thing was they were like, we're like okay, well what if we can't get out in 38 minutes? They're like well you're going to have to Alamo up.

[Brent Tucker]

Yep.

[Alex West]

And we're like okay, well then what? They're like that. Then you're either going to be a political prisoner, you're going to be dead. And it was like okay. And you're telling me I can only have four magazines, you know. Right. And they're like well we're not telling you what to do do. But the thing is you have to weigh this. And it was like oh, okay, gotta

[Brent Tucker]

tell me without telling me.

[Alex West]

Yeah. Like so I make my rounds account. Okay. Yeah. So you know, we had all these. So we didn't have speed, but we didn't have all this stuff. We were very. Which was unnerving to be honest. And it was just kind of like fuck it, let's just go for it. And because it was like, you can't overthink it. It's like this is what we have to do. And you know, even things that. Yeah, like just extra grenades, all the stuff that you would, you know, normally take, we couldn't because of weight issues. Yeah. So that, that there was all sorts of like little, little one offs in there that was kind of concerning, especially if we did. The big thing was if we couldn't get off target in time, and that went into our planning of how we took down the target. We were talking a little bit last night where, you know, you, you didn't want the style of taking it down, couldn't be too fast, but you wanted it to be nice and safe, almost like a hybrid. Because if a guy got shot, it wasn't that he got shot. Like, we were scared. I mean, we guys got shot. It's war, right? But it was, it was. Now he goes down. Now it's a time thing.

[Brent Tucker]

It's a time thing.

[Alex West]

Now we have to. Of course we're going to take care of our guy now. Are we going to get out in time? And so there was all sorts of factors in there, and it really got to the point where it's just like, just go for it. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

You were in the bird that, that crashed in the, in the courtyard at, at what point? Because, you know, again, we, we have this commonality. And I love, like, interviewing other tier one guys because I, you know, at least understand, you know, to some degree what we go through. And you know, when, when you're one minute out, like, there's that, there's that nervousness that builds before that.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

But once it goes one minute, it's, it's, it's just game time, total games. There's no time to be scared anymore. It's, it's just. Where, where, where is it at?

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

You kind of go into autopilot.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

So knowing that, and I've. Have you ever been in a, in a helicopter crash before that?

[Alex West]

I have, yes. Have you really? Yes. Yeah. And it was a joke that we had in the team. And at least the helicopter I was on where we were like, has anybody been in a helicopter crash? And like, probably half the guys had, and we were like, all right, as long as nobody's been in two, you know, it comes in threes, I think we'll be okay. You know what I mean? And so I had on the, on the workup for the Iraq invasion in Kuwait training. I'd crashed in a pave flow. A paveh part. Wait, pave low. Okay, 53.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

But yeah, so we had. And, yeah, we had crashed in it. But on that one thing that I think. I'm sorry, continue. You know, on the, the flight in being so long, like, it's an hour and a half because it's like, oh, my gosh, we're going. And it's like, yeah. And then now you're alone in your thoughts. To your point, it's so you can't hear anything in the. In the helicopter, really. I mean, maybe a random radio call, maybe, but it was. It was just a long time to be alone in your thoughts. And it wasn't just a standard mission. It was like, okay, if we don't get out of here, okay, we're going to Alamo up or whatever. Like I mentioned, you know, maybe he's there, maybe he's not. And then as we're going, I remember just sitting, thinking, like, man, the biggest thing right now, I understand how fortunate I am to be on this mission and how our team is. And the biggest thing is I just cannot let down the American people.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

Like, I remember thinking to myself, envisioning people jumping out of the World Trade center and just thinking, like, this is not about me. This is payback for America. And I just cannot. I. And I was, like, kind of starting to get in my own head, to be honest. And then I finally kind of snapped out of it. I just saw some, like, outside the window, some rocks that reminded me of Southern California, like, East County, San Diego. And just thinking, like, all right, cool. And just going over the reps in my head, like, okay, you know what to do. Like, it's. This is. Because the actual target was not that complex. We'd done harder targets, you know, like. And so it was just kind of like, okay, kind of got in my head, few deep breaths, but when the doors opened, it was just on. It was like, boom. Like, it was like, I'm back, you know, Like, I know I can do this. We are going to do this, and. Or we're going to die doing it. But the big thing was I just. That. That thought, that deep feeling of just the people of New York, in America in general was like. I was just like, we are. I do not want to mess up my own little world. Right. You know, like, at least my part. I just. But once the doors opened, it was 100%. I knew that we were gonna at least die doing it.

[Brent Tucker]

Man, when you explain it like that, I've. We're similar, but. But we're not the same. I don't. I've. I don't. I've had some important, to me, missions, sure. But I don't know if I've ever been on a helicopter with the, you know, with. With the feeling of like, America's depending on. On me right now. And you're absolutely right. Like, that America. America didn't Know it at the time, which is even crazier.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

America so desperately wanted this and needed this and they had no idea the

[Alex West]

boys were doing something about it.

[Brent Tucker]

Right now they're about to find. If you guys do it right.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

They're about to find out about it.

[Alex West]

Yes. And. Or if we do it wrong and that we're gonna find out either way. And the thing was, and it didn't fall short on me too, like, you know, I, and I, I know I've said it, but I really mean it. Like there was other squadrons that could have been picked to do it that would have done just as good or better job. And I knew that.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And so it was like there was a weight of that too. Of like, do not mess up this opportunity. There's. You know what I mean? There's. And then it was like kind of spinning in my head. But it was just once I like was able to kind of like just get my shit together a little bit

[Brent Tucker]

in my own head. Right.

[Alex West]

You know, like take a few deep breaths, just kind of like go over in my head. Just rehearse. Okay. Your role is X, Y and Z. All right. Doors open. And it's on.

[Brent Tucker]

What, when, when doors. When doors open. What. Is there anything you remember about that night? It was cold, it was windy, it was dark. Anything specific that you, you remember about that?

[Alex West]

I remember when the doors open, heart was racing. The, the temperature. If I recall, it was like springtime. It wasn't any crazy. I had a long sleeve cami top on and it was comfortable. But I remember seeing the town, you know, the just whatever standard town below you.

[Brent Tucker]

Yep.

[Alex West]

And then I remember even kind of looking out and seeing the compound and just being like, okay. And then when we hovered like I was on the, the door that was facing the actual compound. There was a sniper there that was basically overwatch.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

One of the guys I was holding on the back of his kit as he was throwing the rope. Standard stuff. He was throwing the rope and he was going to throw it and follow it and I was going to go right after him. And I remember I was holding on him. We were coming in and it's like boom. We're right there in front of the compound. And then the whole world started just spun violent just like. And we just nose dove into. Thankfully we had a world class pilot that was able to. On the particular pilot or the helicopter, it almost was like a beak of a bird. I was able to take that and drive it into the, into the earth, which actually stabilized it because the helicopter was on. Like, it was like part of it was on this wall, this tall wall. And. And it started kind of rotating a little bit. And you know, I just. Immediately from training, it's like, don't jump out just yet because it was swaying back and forth like your head's gonna get lopped off.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And. And I remember I was still holding on to my buddy, like, holding on to him after we impacted. At the time, I didn't realize that I had a couple herniated discs in my back, but so did a lot of guys from that. But my adrenaline was going. I had no idea. But I'm holding on to him and there's a moment I'm looking over my shoulder because I'm just wanna see where the. Cause I was a team leader, wanted to make sure everybody was good or at least like where they were. Did somebody get thrown?

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And I remember I just lightly let up on the back of his kit and he just went and just hopped out. And he was this big dude. This. He could have been like, size of like an NFL linebacker type guy. And I remember just being like, oh my God. Like, I felt like, did I let go of him? And like, did I? And I just looked, right? And I remember seeing him running and he's this big guy and I'm like, his head's going to get lopped off. Yeah. And then he just ran right through it. And I was like, well, like, I got. I can't leave. And I'm like, now I'm going. That's right. You know, and I'm like, I'm like, you know, whatever, Here we go, here we go. And. And then that. And I remember when that happened, I never looked back at the helicopter. I remember reflecting on that later. Like, man, I never even looked back to see where the guys were, how were they were doing. And it was the mindset that we had had that it was different, this mission was different. It was all about getting the guy. Like, we will all die doing it. And right now, like, even the moment of looking back to make sure everybody's cool, it doesn't matter, right? Because if there are guys scattered all over the place or not, we're going to go.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And so I remember just following him. My role as a team leader was to take my team right up the middle. And I remember I knew that we were worried that there was going to be suicide. There wasn't, thank God. But with that type of. As you know, you get higher up and it doesn't have to be higher up, like bad guys. But like we thought likely that could happen or Houseborn id. And I remember thinking as the team leader, I'm going to be the first one in there because if anybody dies, it's gonna be me. And, and that's not just to make sure people know that's not like just me. Alex west, that is just like most like JSOC type, you know, like guys are like, if, especially something like that, like if anybody's gonna do it, I'm gonna lead. And. Yeah. And then ran right up the middle. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And did you guys go straight to the, to the main compound?

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

No. There were kind of adjacent compounds within the overall. Adjacent buildings within the overall compound. You guys go straight to the three story building?

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

Did you guys lead with a explosive charge?

[Alex West]

The door was open. It was a back door. And we knew through intelligence that the door would be open. And so I went, you know, when the reason, I guess, okay, that's a great question. I, I'm surprised. And at that I still at that point did not know that it would be. It was the guy. I still was not 100% right. And so, you know, we get in there, we end up taking care of one of the couriers and. And we're in there. And I remember at that point, so now I'm like kind of leading the. The other team had landed outside.

[Brent Tucker]

Yep.

[Alex West]

They were originally supposed to land on the roof, but contingency was if one of the hilos goes down, the other one just buys down risk and just lands.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

And so that's what they were doing that I was court and those guys were now making their way around to support us. But I was coordinating because there was a steel door going up the stairs and when I saw that on the first floor from the second floor. Yeah. And that's when our breacher was like, okay, throw the charge on. So we're getting the charge on and we're putting a big one on because it was like, it was a heavy duty door, but we, it was on and, and we kind of were not worried about what was behind. You know, we wanted people to feel it. And so.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

You know, and we just crashed the helicopter. We have 30 something minutes. And oh, by the way, we probably won't get out now because we scratched the helicopter. So we're gonna make, you know, we're gonna make you, you know, pay. And so, you know, I'm, so I'm coordinating like, hey, back off that standard stuff. But I remember looking at it and there was a moment where the guy threw the charge on, and. And I kind of get out of the way of it, and I'm starting to make the call.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

Like, hey, like, basically, like, send it. And. And as he was getting ready to send it, there was a moment. I was like, holy sh. We just crashed, and we are not going to get out of here on time. Like. And it was. We are going to Alamo up because there's no. I was like.

[Brent Tucker]

And I got four max.

[Alex West]

I got four mags. Like, Like, I was, like, kicking myself. I'm like, you know, nobody would have known known if you would have snuck a couple extra. Like, let's be real. And I'm like, I knew I should have taken a couple extra, but. But there was a moment, but then it was kind of like. Of like, contemplation. I'm like, you know what? I'm back in it. And it's just like, okay, boom. The charge goes. And then it's just like. And then, you know, from there, the rest of the guys came in. At that time, there was also another element that was taking down some other buildings. One of the guys had. They got a little gunfight, got shot in his bolt cutters and frag just trapped a little bit. And. And, yeah, then kind of from there, you know, the team went in, took out his son, took out the man. And then from there, you know, there's a lot of accounts of what happened. I wasn't in that room. That's not for me to really say. But I do know, for me, my. What I know is, like, when I got up there, we had this treasure trove of SSE we were worried about. And we were worried about, I, Dean the guy and our UBL making sure we got him. And I remember when it came over the radio that we actually had him, and it was like, whoa, okay, whatever. We're back to sse. Because it's like, it's still on. It's like a moment to be like, wow, that's a lot. I can't believe he's actually here. That's cool. Okay. Sse. We're still not going to get out of here type thing. But then I remember, unbeknownst to us, our QRF launched, and. Which was ballsy. I. You know, straight up, 47s are like, we're gonna. We're not gonna let you guys up. And so another squadron from our command came in and just was like, you know, with TF160 just burning to come get us. And. And so as you know, we're worried about as they do. And as that was happening, you know, we're now putting charges on the helicopter because we wanted to blow that thing. And there was just a lot going on in a short amount of time. And finally we. I remember my. My master chief was like, okay, he named. Like, you guys are gonna get off. Basically, my team. Like, you're gonna get off on the first Hilo. And I remember coming on the radio and being like, yeah, but there's so much stuff here we need to be grabbing.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And he came back and was like, well, cool. You can just stay here. I was like, oh, good one, Good one. I'm like, roger that. I'll be. I'm. I'm running out. Cool, cool. So there's even, like, a little joke, right. If you will, in the middle of all. All that madness.

[Brent Tucker]

The master bedroom's open.

[Alex West]

Yeah, totally. He's like. He's like, cool story, Alex. All right, whatever. You're like, you're either going to get on or. Actually, we could probably save some weight if you just stayed here. Back to weight. We're back. So, you know, then we. We got out, we took the body, and I remember laying on his body and. Because we were just crammed.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

In the helicopter and just getting his elbow in my side and just have. Just being covered in computer, laptop, all this stuff.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And then we finally took off and. And then the other guys got extracted as well. And then as we were flying back, you know, we're thinking, like, oh, cool. Like, this is. We're fine. I can't believe we're pulling this out. It's still not over because we're still worried about the F16s, all this stuff. And then I remember we had a farp, or a forward area refueling point. Nice. No big deal. Still got it in the steel. Why do I remember that? I mean, I wish I could just data dump and, like, have useful information. You know what I mean? Like, of course that'll stick. Yeah, exactly. That'll stick for some reason. But we had a. So, like, basically, for listeners who don't know, just a fuel point and Is a field in the middle of nowhere in Pakistan that we could refuel because we didn't have enough fuel. Yeah. To make it back. And so as we're flying towards it, I remember just thinking, like, okay, we're getting close, and they're. The pilots are kind of giving us, you know, some. Or the crew is telling us, like, how many minutes out? And then all of a sudden, lights Start flashing in the cockpit. And then the, and then it comes back like, we're, we're going to run out of fuel, like. And so like, like, brace yourself. And I was thinking to myself, oh, it is going to come in threes. We are going to, we are going to get this third helicopter crash. Thankfully, obviously we didn't. And we got to the, the fueling points, fueled up, flew back. And I do recall at one point I got on the 47 and when we passed into Afghanistan, the pilot came over the radio and just said, you know, hey boys, we're back in Afghanistan. I thought you, I bet you'd never thought you'd be so excited to be back here. And we were all like, yeah, you know, and that was kind of it.

[Brent Tucker]

And that's when it, that's when it hit you.

[Alex West]

That's when it. Well, that's when. And then when we flew back to Bagram and we're turning over all of our stuff and I remember when it really hit was we were still in our cammies and you know, sse turnover, all the just standard post op stuff. Debrief. And there was a TV that came on and the President came on and I remember him like with his like, swagger, like walking down and, and just saying in paraphrasing, you know, America pulled off this operation. And at that moment I was. That's when it really hit, was like, I can't believe you pulled that off. Like, we are lucky.

[Brent Tucker]

That's so crazy.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I mean, what a. What a career.

[Alex West]

I mean really.

[Brent Tucker]

I mean, what a. What a career. Some would say that you were lucky, but people are lucky is when preparation meets opportunity.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And you had opportunities throughout your career that you were prepared for.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

And that's what put you and in those positions.

[Alex West]

Yeah. Thanks, man.

[Brent Tucker]

And that's, that's. I'm telling you. And if someone's like you. You jealous that those guys got that mission.

[Alex West]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Why would.

[Alex West]

Yeah. Why wouldn't. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

How could you not be?

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm, I'm jealous that I was out when they got Maduro.

[Alex West]

I'm too.

[Brent Tucker]

You're always jealous. Anytime someone else.

[Alex West]

I'm the same way. When I saw that, I was like, man, I wanted to be honest. And I'm like a space cowboy. I'm out. Like, what are they going to use me for these days?

[Brent Tucker]

I, I got jealous when another troop and in my own squadron did a cool mission. I know in a country out, you know, in a rotation.

[Alex West]

Like, that's the mentality want. That's the mentality you always.

[Brent Tucker]

And that needs to be the mentality.

[Alex West]

Yes, right. I agree. But.

[Brent Tucker]

But you guys got it. And as you know, that's. You know, as a self appointed representative from the Delta Force, we couldn't have been any. Yes. Partially jealous. And also could have been any more proud of you guys for doing that. And you know, and America, man, it's. You want to talk about. From the weight of a nation that kind of transfers over to just how grateful the nation was and just. I don't know. My last point is I feel like that night that you guys did that mission America came together again. And what might be for the last

[Alex West]

time since then, I think you might be right. I remember that well. And just feeling so proud not just to be in America, but to see America be proud. You know, not just like me feel it, but to. To observe America being proud. I believe it's. There's more to come. I hope. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but hopefully soon.

[Brent Tucker]

Did you guys ever get a. A brief on all the information you guys pulled off target? You guys pulled a ton of information off target. Did you ever get. I'm sure it took them. Who knows how long it took him to go through all that. You guys ever get briefed up and be like, hey, you know, you know, this is what we. This is what we got from. From that.

[Alex West]

That's a great question. I. Not really. I got a little tidbit here and there. But mostly if I. The most. The stuff I saw was what was being released in the open source. So, you know, it'd be like. You'd be like porn or. Yeah, this or that. I'm like, huh, really? That was. We risked our lives for a porn hard drive.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay.

[Alex West]

But it was. The number one guy is porn hard drive. You know, it's like, okay, gladly. Yeah. So there's like a little bit of. But there was so much that I believe that it just took them a really long time. And to be honest, I think that at that point it was. We were. It was not. It wasn't. There was no reason for us to know unless we needed to know. And I don't recall other than maybe I heard a little tidbit here or there, but it was. It was never like an official sit down. This was what was found, at least in my experience.

[Brent Tucker]

When you guys get back from the mission was. Do you feel like there was any professional jealousy from. From other squadrons for any reason? You know, was everything pretty kosher or. That's a Lot, you know, to deal with. It is a lot to deal with.

[Alex West]

There was not. No, I remember.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm sure not to cut you off but because I want to just make sure like the, everyone understands like what I mean by that question. Yeah. There was a squadron in Afghanistan.

[Alex West]

Oh yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

That, that, that rightfully so feels like they should have got that mission.

[Alex West]

And I agree by the way, by

[Brent Tucker]

the way, you know, there's, there's the younger guys that, not just younger middle management within the squadron that feel like you guys shouldn't have done that was, was just, you know, sometimes when there's success, there's, there are some, you know, side effects of, of success. And was, and was there any of that?

[Alex West]

I don't, I mean I'm sure there was but I, I recall it being positive and I recall I got a lot of, you know, kind compliments from. Not comment but just like, you know, we got him like, you know, like we're proud. I mean of course all those guys, I think it's same thing they'd followed up with. You know, if our squadron did it would have, we wouldn't have crashed a helicopter.

[Brent Tucker]

Of course. You know.

[Alex West]

Of course. And I would have said the exact same thing. So let's be real. But probably. Yeah, but you know, so there was obviously a little banter, a little funny stuff going. But I, I remember as a unit, you know, we were obviously proud. You know, we, we were proud of what we had done. And in that year though what would come later, not to jump ahead with extortion, a lot of that was short lived to. To be honest. You know, because just a, a few months later that would happen. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

That I, I, I, I do want to talk about that. In fact, let's, let's jump right into it because. Yeah. I mean, you again, you want to talk about the, the contrasting of what you guys went through.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

As far as you guys went through the highest of eyes.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

To something that I'm sure you are and I hope that that is something you'll be proud of the rest of your life and look back and be like that's crazy. Thanks man. It's, I'm, I haven't told you this. It's, it's, you know, when we were in the garage smoking last night telling stories like to some, to some level like man, this guy was on the UBL raid. He's in my garage smoking cigars. I mean just.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Small world. It's, you know, it's, it's crazy. Like I said then it Ends up being short lived because what is arguably the greatest high value target raid ever in Special Operations history just months later ends up being one of the, one of the greatest tragedies in, in tier one, if not special operations history where you guys lose a whole troop.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

In extortion.

[Alex West]

Horrible.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah, I just, I don't, and I told you, I told you that last night. It was like every unit's had had bad days of course, but I, I, I just, I can't fathom losing a whole troop.

[Alex West]

Just gone. Yeah. And it was, you know, especially as, you know like in those units, guys homestead there so they're, they're there year after year after year and become very close obviously with each other. And I had actually been into troop on their previous rotation because I was a green team, I was a selection instructor and one of my best friends, Rob Reeves was in Gold Squadron 2 troop. And we're like, man, one of these days we let's try to get on, like let's get on ops together. And so I was able to work my way over there and to play with him for a little bit. Came back, you know, bin Laden rain happened. And then a few months later, for people who don't know extortion, 17 was a call sign of a 47 that was shot down with a Gold Squadron 2 troop in it as they were providing a QRF operation. And it was the largest loss of life in the Afghan war. Certainly in Special operations. I'm not sure historically but like, I mean, I mean like in the history of American Special, but certainly in the gwat.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And that was earth shattering. I mean you talk, go through your phone and you have dozens, you know, 12, 20 plus numbers in there that one moment they're just no longer alive. And for us we were so impacted as a command by it. And the command was able to professionally make sure that Keiko or like casualty officers and support families and all that. But for us we're on standby meaning when we had to blow out to go backfill them. Right. So it was, we were going to some funerals of some of your best friends and having friends, some of those friends and their wills are requesting you to be a pallbearer and you can't do it because you have to go overseas. And so you know, we blew out out there to help cover down from that. But the, it's still felt in the community, especially a development group, especially the guys from that era, that is something that I believe will never go away. And part of the Reason I had my own struggles not to get too far ahead, but. And from all of my deployments, but specifically that. And which ended up leading to me becoming a therapist because of. I saw the darkness and. And started to pull myself out and saw our community struggling like that and being like, I want to try to do something, but not to get ahead with the therapy thing. But the extortion was rough. No.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, I really wanted to bring up extortion because I'm gonna put all their names on the screen. Awesome. Because I don't. It's important to talk about it because I don't ever want them to be forgotten.

[Alex West]

I love that.

[Brent Tucker]

And it's a, It's a perfect segue into. Into you being a mental health therapist. Because I've, I've said it on the podcast before. There are times that I'm not an advocate for therapists for one reason or another, but usually, like the, the one reason is norm. Like, usually when you go to a therapist for, for guys like us in the military, and usually when like PTSD related, how was someone who has no idea. Idea what you've gone through going, Going to. Going to help you with it. They think there's no way they can relate to some of the things that. That, that men have gone through in war. And so just. I personally have a little bit of an issue with that.

[Alex West]

But that's a. I get it. I understand.

[Brent Tucker]

But when I heard that you did that, I was like, that actually solves one of my problems with therapy.

[Alex West]

Right.

[Brent Tucker]

You absolutely should. Should be doing that. And, and veterans should, should, should. Should go to you among who. Whoever else, you know, needs to. That's. We. We need more combat veterans that are therapists.

[Alex West]

I agree. You know, there's been times where in the therapy space where, you know, a veteran is struggling with something and they might talk about losing a friend. And I will say it is fortune. I feel fortunate where I can be like, yeah, man, me too. Yeah, you know, I know what that's like. Or, you know, maybe there's like, I, you know, I killed somebody and I'm struggling with. It's like, me too. You know, and it's. And that allows it to just kind of level it and just to be like, just meet them where they're at. It doesn't even have to be some cool therapeutic technique. It's just a human thing.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

I'm just like, bro, I get it. You know, and okay, like, let's. You want to talk about if you don't want to. That's fine. Okay. What do you. Let's get you involved in some kind of a program like a, like, you know, one more wave or those fishing program, whatever it is. It's like, okay, there's a couple ways we can go about this. And. And I feel that that has kind of been. That wasn't my. I guess it was kind of my intent because I felt the same way you did of. Maybe some therapists didn't know where I was coming from.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

Because they didn't know kind of the stuff we were talking about last night. But they don't know what that's like. But it's. I find being. Having experienced some of not everything that everybody's experienced. But my experiences have helped me realize of, like, what it's like and why I'm involved in whether it's mental health. Not just a therapist, but in nonprofits and an ambassador for Americans for ibogaine. Just different things because it's my passion. Because I. Whenever, you know, from our communities, not just the Tier one communities, but the greater software, greater military of just the suicide epidemic that's going on, I just feel that that's almost like my new battle, like, and tackling it like a Tier one operator, not just like some therapist that went to grad school and they're 26 years old. Yeah. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I'm going to ask, but I already know the answer to this. Does. Does anyone that any of your patients. Do any of them know that you're a SEAL Team 6 operator on the UBL raid?

[Alex West]

I don't. I think maybe one or two, but not. Most of them don't know one or two because they, like, chat GPT me and then. And they'll tell me, like, I don't tell them. They'll be like. They'll be like, I just found out something new about you. And I'm like, Or did you see me out in town? Like, what's going on? Like, oh, what did it say?

[Brent Tucker]

That has to be crazy.

[Alex West]

I never tell them about your therapist. Yeah, I never tell them. I never tell them anything. I don't even.

[Brent Tucker]

I already knew.

[Alex West]

You did. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't tell them any of that,

[Brent Tucker]

which is why I'm sending you a poster that says it and I'm going to ask you to hang it up in your office.

[Alex West]

About time. I've been waiting for that. Yeah. Finally somebody knows sees me.

[Brent Tucker]

The other thing you do that's. That's really cool that, that I want to talk about. And that's the. The nonprofit that you Found in one. One More Wave. Tell us about that.

[Alex West]

Oh, I'd love to. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. Yes. One More Wave.

[Brent Tucker]

You earned it.

[Alex West]

One More Wave is a nonprofit, veteran surf nonprofit, where we take customized surfboards and we customize them to wounded or injured veterans. Customize their injuries. Now, it's not just, let's say, amputees, which it is often single, double, triple burn victims, spinal cord injuries, all the above, but a lot of mental health, that is. And so the boards don't have to be as. They're standard surfboards. However, we, you know, with those boards, we do graphic. Graphic art, custom graphic art in it. So guys can put in their unit logos, they can put in pictures of their family. They can make it a nice, classic surfboard, whatever it is they want. We do that. And we also have chapters around the country. We have eight of them from Oahu and Hawaii, California, San Diego, Florida, North Carolina, New York, all of these places. And every third Saturday, we do a serve where roughly three or four hundred people will get together, depending on the time of the year. Maybe in the winter, it's not as many people, but right now, in the spring, summer, it really adds up. And, yeah, we get together with community and surf. And I'm surprised when I started not one more wave back in 2015, I was still active duty, and I really thought it was just gonna be like. Lots of times people are like, oh, my gosh, you had this vision to have this. We've helped X amount of people and all of this, and that. Did you have that vision then? I'm like, no, I didn't have the vision at all. I was like, all right, I'm gonna do something. And I wanted to at least do, like, a couple boards for the Naval hospital, who had some amputees. And then before we knew it, it gained a little bit of traction. Starbucks did a documentary on us. And then the rest is kind of history in a way where we were able to make a lot of impact. And right now, we've done more adaptive surfboards than anywhere in the world. I took that mindset from the units we were at of just innovation and research development, and got around some very talented surfboard shapers. And we've really. I'm really proud of that, and I'm really proud of our team, our followers that follow us from the beginning. Donors, all the above. Our board of directors.

[Brent Tucker]

I really like the other thing that you guys do. It's not just a surfboard for the adaptive people. You also cater to them with A wetsuit as well.

[Alex West]

Thank you for.

[Brent Tucker]

I was like, man, that's really cool. You've thought of everything.

[Alex West]

Yes. Thank you. Yeah. For that reminder. Yeah. So it's when a veteran gets a grant, they get a surfboard and then they get a wetsuit. To your point. But what I hated seeing in the beginning, I would see a lot of these amputees and they would take a wetsuit and they would, you know, let's say they're missing their leg below the knee, for example, they might overhand knot the wetsuit leg and then they would, you know, cut it with scissors. And I was just like, janky. I'm like, I'm like, no. Like, no, this is not cool. Like, I don't want that. So we, we tracked down a wetsuit Taylor and we started working with her of just innovating like different ways because, you know, you can't just like sew it. You have to put a drainage in there. And we were exploring different stuff and in from there we were able to get like solid custom fit wetsuits, especially for the amputees or if it's able bodied people, you know, it's a nice wetsuit. And then all the little stuff like board bags and extra fins and little things like that all come within the grant.

[Brent Tucker]

How many, how many surfboards do you think you guys have given out?

[Alex West]

750. That's crazy. Yeah. And each grant's about $2,500, so that's awesome. And as I was saying last night, you know, people are like, yeah, you must have envisioned like. No. And I started it from a How to start a non profit for dummies book, you know, so, so it's not like I was like some sort of like crazy entrepreneur. I was like, I don't know what to do. Like, I'm gonna get non profit dummies book. Okay. I don't know anybody outside of the military industrial complex. And, and just thankfully I had a lot of people support me and mentor me and it was just, it all kind of, I was like, it kind of fell into that. It's better to be lucky than good.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. I'd say. I, I, especially after talking last night. I love what, what, what you're doing so much on, on that aspect too. In fact, you know, I told you I love military history. We even talked about. There's some history in this.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

With China Beach.

[Alex West]

Yes.

[Brent Tucker]

And Vietnam.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Of some R and R of the guys going and surfing.

[Alex West]

Absolutely.

[Brent Tucker]

To, to just kind of have a release. You know, forget about the worries of the world for a little bit. Just have some serenity. Go. Go do something.

[Alex West]

Yes, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that up. I'm sorry to me cut you off.

[Brent Tucker]

No, no.

[Alex West]

Yeah. With the, The China beach thing, I was really inspired by that, too. For those people who don't know, China beach was like a. An R and R location for active duty members in Vietnam. And they would just basically go to this nice beach and they would hang out, I think they would give them food and beers, whatever, and just like, relax. Get them out of the jungle and just relax. That nervous system.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

And some guys started bringing over, smuggling over surfboards, probably like some damn Californians or something. Whatever, you know, just guys were getting surfboards over there, and then they were using that as, like, not just outdoor, you know, exercise and all that, but almost therapeutically. And. And I believe from a clinical standpoint, what is important about surfing or any kind of flow state type of endeavor. So it could be like strumming a guitar, surfing, mountain biking, Whatever it is, whatever it is for that person, it's for our nervous system, essentially. It takes us out of the. The sympathetics or, like, ramped up. And it really, like, just. It gives that nervous system a break, more in a state of flow. So when you're catching away for, like, let's say 10 seconds, your nervous system is just like, relaxed. And if you can catch 10 waves, that's 100 seconds. Right. And so it just kind of like relaxes that a little bit. Clinically. That's what I. I believe is going on. But also you're exercising, so that feels good. You're getting endorphins from that. You're getting vitamin D from the sun. You're getting around. If you're with other guys doing it too, you're cheering each other on or talking. If you didn't make a wave, whatever it is, there's like, camaraderie and connection. So I would encourage, especially any veterans. It doesn't have to be surfing, obviously. That's the thing that I'm into. But.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

Anything that. That can get you in that flow state I think is important.

[Brent Tucker]

And you've, you know, with the, you know, the different groups that meet up, you've created a community. Yes. Community is really important. Absolutely. So when. When Joe doesn't make it this week, and he said he was going to. Outside of this, no one was going to check on Joe.

[Alex West]

Yes. And.

[Brent Tucker]

But now we need to go check on Joe because he's not here. Okay. We found out just life is real heavy right now. You're busy, whatever. Yeah. You'll be there next week though, and, and we'll. And we'll come visit you tonight for, for dinner.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Like it, it gives people a reason to check up on people, to have a community, to be connected.

[Alex West]

I love that. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And that is so important, I think especially for if there's any veterans listening to this now of just that connection, whether you're that person isolating or your friends are doing that just to that where it's like, you know, to the Joe example where it's like Joe will know that, you know, Alex is going to text, text him if he doesn't see him or Brent's going to give him a call or whatever. Guilt trip, you know, and it's like. And maybe you're just to your point. Maybe it's just life got busy. Whatever. It's like, okay. But you know, or maybe there's a day where you're isolating and you're like, I better go because Brent's going to call me. And then, you know, and it's like, okay. Maybe it's just that little nudge that is what it's going to take to get out and be social. Because that's the biggest thing that veterans struggle with, in my opinion is they start isolating because they're out of that unit, they're out of that squad, whatever it is, and they're no longer have meaning and purpose and now they're stuck on their couch and it's in the. You're in your own mind.

[Brent Tucker]

And, and we've. I'm certain we've both done this. I've done the same thing. I don't want to go. I don't want to be social. And then for whatever reason, I'm forced to go. And then I go out there and then I feel bad. I'm like, I'm having a great time.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Why'd I do this? Why did I not?

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I even show up in about. Yeah too.

[Alex West]

A little bit. I've been there. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

By the time I'm leaving, like, I'm really, really glad I did this.

[Alex West]

It's like going to the gym, right? Like days you don't feel like going to the gym, you're like, oh my gosh, it's going to be a half ass work. I know. It's like, just go. And even if it is kind of a half assed workout, no matter what, you'll always feel better leaving you. Right. Like the gym, like, I at least did it. It's same thing with surfing. It's like you always. Even if the conditions are bad, even if the conditions are perfect, but you mess up every way, whatever it is. I've always felt better coming out of the ocean than when I went in, especially when it's with a community. And to that point of, like, the community is huge.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, we're trying to build a community here as well. You know, it's. Yes, it's called the Tier 1 podcast, but there's only a handful of Tier 1 guys to interview, which why I'm so glad, you know, you came on the show. But, you know, the Tier one isn't about me or you. It's about being, you know, a tier one person, a Tier one friend, a tier one husband, a tier one worker, a Tier one boss, just being Tier one, different aspects of your life, and we, as a community, want to be a part of your community. And we are going to buy a surfboard and. And wetsuit for a veteran in need with one. With one request.

[Alex West]

Can.

[Brent Tucker]

Can we get. Can we get the logo put on it?

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Can we?

[Alex West]

Of course. Yeah. All right. Yeah, of course.

[Brent Tucker]

Not. Not. Not necessary. But.

[Alex West]

But if it's doable.

[Brent Tucker]

Oh, yeah, there's a spot for it. We'd love to sponsor a surfboard and help out a veteran.

[Alex West]

Thank you. That's huge. I mean, that will impact a veteran's life, undoubtedly. I can't thank you guys enough.

[Brent Tucker]

Absolutely. It's. Towards the end. The floor is yours. Is there anything else that you'd like to talk about?

[Alex West]

Yeah, there's a couple small things.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah.

[Alex West]

I would like this opportunity just to speak to any veterans out there that might be struggling. I just want you to know that, you know, it's okay to reach out for help. I'm not saying that you always have to, but, you know, as somebody who maybe didn't in the beginning reach out, I'm glad that I did, because there is help out there. You can be Both a Tier 1 operator or, you know, and at the same time, reach out and get help if you need it, because our communities struggle with a lot of these things. Post of all of the stuff that we've done, and you don't have to come from a Tier one unit. It could be, you know, you could have been in the military or even not in the military. Anybody who's listening, it's just. Help is out there. It's okay. You can be a man and get help, and. And by doing so you're going to be. To the point of what you just mentioned, a better dad, a better husband, a better friend. And not just that, but you just deserve it. Right. Like you deserve it. And then one other aspect I wanted to just talk about. Yeah, just. No, that's it. Just normalizing mental health. I just feel like I'm not going to go on some crazy therapist talk about it. But it's just. You know what I mean? But I just want to just say, like. Like it's. You know, you can be both. You can be a tier one guy and you can also get help.

[Brent Tucker]

I agree with that. Because even when we were in the teams, we, We. We didn't. We. We needed help. Yeah, I got help from physical therapists.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I got help from our law guys. There's. There's nothing you can do at a high level and do by yourself.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Last thing that, that everybody. That everybody gets and that is in this thing with a funny story for me.

[Alex West]

Oh, man. Okay. Funny story.

[Brent Tucker]

Okay, Alex, before you start that, Brent, if it's okay.

[Alex West]

Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

I think there's a small part of your story that's missing that our listeners, if, you know, you know, and they're. And they want to know. Alex, they want to know your piss bottle story. Did you have a piss bottle on the helicopter that evening and did you use it? What happened to it?

[Alex West]

That's a great question. It might be the most important question I've been asked all day and I don't know. Allow you to have it. No, no, they did. And I would have smuggled it on no matter what. I mean, it was an hour and a half long flight. Of course I did.

[Brent Tucker]

Right.

[Alex West]

And I'm gonna let you know it was a Gatorade bottle, because everybody knows water bottles. Nobody's got time for that. You know what I mean? You have that Gatorade bottle and. Yes, I used it. And thankfully I did. And it might still be in Pakistan, so you're welcome. Pakistan.

[Brent Tucker]

Well, that might double as your funny story, actually.

[Alex West]

You might be off the hook after.

[Brent Tucker]

After that answer.

[Alex West]

Right on the old twofer. Those Gatorade bottles, they got the larger opening. Exactly. That's the problem. Definitely more convenient. That's a move. That's right. I mean, we're talking tier one stuff here. You got to be like, even tier one with your piss bottle. You know what I mean? Act like you've been there before. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Brent Tucker]

Could you imagine picks that up.

[Alex West]

Be like, what is this? Navy seals never hydrate. Oh, gosh.

[Brent Tucker]

You know it did happen. There was an aerial resupply. I want to say it was in Afghanistan. It got blown off target, and it had C4 on it, like the. The bricks of. Of C4 and the green plastic.

[Alex West]

Oh, yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

Yeah. The Afghans got there and thought it was like some sort of candy and started eating it. And actually, by the time we. We realized, I either got really sick or maybe died from it. But, yeah, I'm sure it's toxic.

[Alex West]

It can't be good. No. Yeah.

[Brent Tucker]

So it wouldn't be the first time they've seen something strange and gave it a whirl. Yeah, that's crazy. Anyway, Alex, thank you so much for coming on.

[Alex West]

My pleasure.

[Brent Tucker]

And it's to the garage for cigars.

[Alex West]

Looking forward to it.

[Brent Tucker]

Thanks, guys.