Ranger Recon Company (RRC), Silver Star | Mike Edwards

Summary

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Tier1 Podcast — Ranger Recon Company (RRC), Silver Star | Mike Edwards

Host: Brent Tucker
Guest: MSG (Ret.) Mike Edwards
Date: June 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with retired Master Sergeant Mike Edwards, a 22-year Army veteran with a career spanning National Guard, Ranger Regiment, and the elite Ranger Recon Company (RRC). Host Brent Tucker, a former Delta Force operator, guides the discussion through Mike’s journey from rural Alabama to high-stakes combat missions, leadership development, and his post-military path. Together, they break down rarely discussed SOF selection processes, combat realities, leadership lessons, and the importance of purpose and peace after service.

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Early Life & Entry into the Military

[04:02] - [07:54]

• Background: Mike grew up in rural Alabama, living a quintessential country lifestyle: hunting, fishing, and running outdoors.
• Military Influence: His father was an Army officer, providing some initial exposure, but Mike joined the National Guard based on a “wild hair” rather than direct influence.
• Initial Service:
  • Started in a communications unit with the National Guard.
  • Completed the split-option program (junior summer boot camp, then senior year, then AIT).
  • Attempted to commission through Marion Military Institute (his father was faculty) but struggled academically due to immaturity and partying.
  • An influential Green Beret NCO convinced him he’d be better as an enlisted soldier than an officer.

Notable Quote:

“My grades slumped in some areas... I was too mature, just wanted to party and drink and stuff like that. So ultimately… I ended up having to take some summer school classes to get my commission.” — Mike Edwards [05:35]

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Finding a Path: SF, Infantry, and the Call to War

[08:40] - [14:35]

• Initial SF Aspirations: Mike tried to pursue Special Forces, training with 20th Group as an NQP (Non-Qualified Personnel) but got derailed by orders to Korea, which blocked SF selection.
• Experience in Korea:
  • Disliked the assignment: “I hated the army so bad… all I was doing was pulling grass and sweeping and mopping. I was like a glorified janitor.” [13:28]
  • 9/11 occurred while he was stationed there, deeply altering his outlook.
  • Encountered a ranger regiment alumnus who recommended the Rangers as the fastest route to combat.

Notable Quote:

“You want to make God laugh? Tell him your plans.” — Brent Tucker [07:03]

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Ranger Regiment: Selection, Standards, and Early Deployments

[15:08] - [30:03]

• Transition to Rangers:

  • Re-enlisted for 3rd Ranger Battalion (closest to home in Alabama) and entered Ranger Indoctrination Program (RIP).
  • Feared RIP more than SF selection due to the unknown.
  • Prepared intensely for all aspects—“train like an animal for everything.” [19:37]

• Culture of Excellence:

  • PT standards were uncompromising (“if you want to succeed here, the minimum is 300 on the PT test.” [25:27])
  • “The PT stud here is trash there.” [16:54]
  • Emphasis on overpreparation, humility, and discipline as foundational to elite performance.

• RIP vs. Ranger School:

  • RIP was a physically brutal four-week selection to eliminate the weak, not a training pipeline like today’s RASP (Ranger Assessment and Selection Program).
  • “Four weeks of what their hell week would be.” [21:12]
  • Proceeded to combat deployment in Iraq, including a combat jump, before attending Ranger School.

Notable Quotes:

"You’re going to a unit where, like, the PT stud here is trash there." — Mike Edwards [16:54]
"If I think I know what it is, I will train for what I think it is. If I don’t know what it is, I have no choice but to train like an animal for everything.” — Brent Tucker [19:00]

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Ranger School: Suffering, Learning, and Recovery

[29:17] - [36:44]

• Ranger School Experience:
  • Attended summer class: “It was longer suck, but not as an intense suck.” [28:02]
  • Three phases: Darby (Fort Benning, squad tactics), Mountain (North GA, platoon tactics), Florida/Swamp (river, boat, swamp ops).
  • Deprivation: lost 50 lbs in ~60 days from minimal food/sleep.
  • Recovery took almost a year to reset metabolism.

Memorable Anecdotes:

• Fell asleep standing, dropped mid-conversation due to exhaustion [32:22]
• Mistook a pine tree for the soldier in front of him during night movement [31:45]
• Celebrated graduation by eating two full racks of ribs at Applebee’s [36:11]

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Life in the Regiment: Real-World Leadership and Combat

[36:57] - [44:35]

• Cultural Details:
  • Even after earning the Ranger Tab, “You’re not really in. You have to earn it every day.” [36:57]
  • Standards enforced mercilessly. Anecdote of disciplinary “IMT” punishment for a missed smoke grenade.
• Deployment Realities:
  • First combat jump, then deployment to Afghanistan; “Deployments were the most peaceful time of my life...I just had to wake up, eat food, go to the gym, and kill bad guys.” [41:51]
  • Combat intensity fluctuated—some deployments were quiet, others were “night after night.”

Key Insight:

“The harder I am on myself, the easier it is when others are hard on me.” — Mike Edwards [15:59]

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Transition to RRD/RRC: Selection and Mission

[47:44] - [56:52]

• Journey to Recon:
  • Inspired by seeing operators with “long hair and beards”—met one in PLDC who piqued his interest.
  • Selection for RRD (later RRC) was described as akin to Delta selection: “Very, very professionally run... everything is very scripted.” [49:28]
  • Long walks, land nav in mountain terrain, psychological and IQ tests.
• Why RRC, not Unit?
  • “I wanted to do the recce stuff. I just wanted to do something different than the door kicking... I got to do clandestine stuff, sneak around, do cool stuff.” [52:59]
• Mission: RRC provides full-spectrum reconnaissance and intelligence gathering for both Ranger Regiment and JSOC—bridging tactical to strategic ops.

Notable Quotes:

“You got to leave some mystique too.” — Mike Edwards [60:01]
“Best kept secret in the Army.” — Roy Young, as recounted by Mike Edwards [57:38]

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Inside RRC: Standards, Leadership, and SOF Culture

[61:13] - [66:29]

• High Standards & Culture:
  • Emphasis on discipline and surprise PT tests (e.g., 4am, after a night out, scoring 300s on the PT test) [61:20]
  • Small, well-funded unit with exceptional leaders, e.g., Roy Young.
  • Capability for extreme movements (40mi ruck marches, Cambrian Patrol victories).

SOF Crossover & Inter-Unit Dynamics:

• Worked extensively with Delta (Unit), SEAL Team 6, and the CIA.
• Commentary on cultural differences:
  • “Your unit is the most professional I have worked with... treated us fairly. B Squadron... they were just dicks, you know—'we're better than you.'” [65:11]
  • Preferred Red/Gold SEAL teams, less positive on Blue/B Squadron.

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Combat Leadership & Silver Star Action

[67:53] - [74:21]

• Tal Afar, Iraq (Silver Star):
  • Led a Ranger assault into a heavily defended compound, encountered grenade and machine gun ambush, took shrapnel while rescuing wounded.
  • Assumed command under fire, coordinated medevac and withdrawal, then directed destruction of the target.
  • Decision-making under fire reflects evolution in tactics: “We had just realized when we should back away. Sometimes there’s a time to back away. And this was one of those times.” [71:40]

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Freefall Instructor & Risk in SOF Training

[79:19] - [89:55]

• Freefall Training & Instruction:
  • Achieved jumpmaster/instructor certification at Yuma; later taught JSOC, MARSOC, Navy EOD, and SF Archangel courses.
  • Observed and recounted several fatal incidents (e.g., student not ready for night jump pushing boundaries, instructors dying during high-risk maneuvers).
  • Stresses importance of humility and respect for risk:

    “Almost every time it’s operator error. That’s the saddest part about it.” — Brent Tucker [87:21]

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The Operator’s High—and the Void After

[91:36] - [94:08]

• Adrenaline, Risk & the Post-Service Crash:
  • SOF life pushes adrenaline and risk to the highest level—everything is “next level,” causing normal life to feel underwhelming and distant.
  • The letdown after service can be sharper than any combat trauma:

    “...When you leave that behind compared to what the importance of what you had, you’re no one.” — Brent Tucker [93:54]

  • “Operator syndrome” and the need for a mission or purpose is discussed with frankness about suicidal ideation and the search for personal peace.

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Faith and Recovery

[95:02] - [100:00]

• Faith as Redemption:
  • Mike shares that his lowest moments (including suicidal thoughts) were overcome through faith and immersing himself in the Bible.
  • Host Brent agrees:

    “You need a purpose. And yes, that book right there does give you purpose. But I think at the end of the day, what we’re looking for more is peace... there’s only one place to truly find peace in your life...” [97:18]

  • Mike dedicates his post-military focus to family and faith, consulting for veteran-supportive businesses, and studying scripture “with the dedication of being an elite operator.” [98:23]

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Final Stories & Closing Wisdom

[100:08] - [104:08]

• Funny Operator Antics:
  • Mike recounts getting literally hog-tied by a cow’s tether on an Afghan compound while working with SEALs, having to cut himself free—“Now there’s a free cow running around inside the compound.” [101:20]
  • Brent follows with a tale of mis-identifying a cow’s blood trail for an enemy combatant’s, after an errant grenade fragment wounded livestock on target.

Closing Message:
Mike and Brent advocate for bringing Tier 1 dedication to all domains of life: family, faith, leadership, and work—reinforcing that true fulfillment and peace are found through purpose, discipline, and faith.

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Key Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On preparation:

  “The harder I am on myself, the easier it is when others are hard on me.” — Mike Edwards [15:59]

• On standards:

  “If you make it [the minimum PT score] high for us, people will meet it.” — Brent Tucker [25:27]

• On post-service struggle:

  "I went in the military knowing I was going to kill bad guys. I don't have PTSD. ... I think the operator syndrome comes from that letdown...when you don’t have a mission." — Mike Edwards [94:08]

• On faith:

  "It was my last option. It was my last choice...That book is powerful and it can heal you, man." — Mike Edwards [97:59]

• On discipline as elite unit foundation:

  "Discipline has to be the foundation. You can add on top of that, but you can’t put anything before the discipline.” — Brent Tucker [46:06]

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Major Timestamps

• 04:02 — Mike’s early life, family influence, and entry into the military
• 13:28 — Korea, 9/11, and discovering Rangers
• 19:00 — Selection mindset, holistic preparation
• 21:12 — The brutality of old-school RIP
• 27:24 — First combat jump into Iraq, transition to Ranger School
• 32:22 — Ranger School sleep deprivation stories
• 41:51 — Combat deployments, adrenaline, and the reality of downtime
• 43:31 — Volunteerism, RRC, and the drive to “kill bad guys”
• 49:28 — RRC selection vs. Delta, professional standards
• 61:20 — RRC unit culture, discipline, surprise PTs
• 67:53 — Silver Star action in Tal Afar, Iraq
• 79:19 — Freefall instructor, risks in SOF jump training
• 91:36 — The aftermath of SOF life, adrenaline, and peace
• 97:18 — The Bible, faith, and finding fulfillment
• 101:20 — Cow hog-ties operator on target: comic relief

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers an unparalleled, candid look into the world of elite Army Rangers, SOF selection and training, life-or-death leadership decisions, and the quieter but equally critical battles faced after leaving the battlefield. Mike Edwards embodies the journey from unformed recruit to mature, self-aware warrior, emphasizing that the pursuit of discipline, purpose, and peace is lifelong—and possible.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

And I'm Drew Tucker, expert of tape guns at First Responder Coffee, Cigar Cast Company. See us at FRCC Shop. I invite you guys to join our Patreon. It's brought to you by Cobalt Kinetics. As a Patreon member, you'll have behind the scene access to exclusive content. There's a fitness forum, there's a weapons forum, and in that weapons forum, there's a Cobalt Kinetics weapon expert ready to answer all your weapons questions. So join the Patreon today.

[A]

And as always, this episode is brought to you by Human Performance TRT. Go to hp-trt.com and use promo code TIER1 to get 20% off all of your testosterone and peptide needs. I'm doing a 30 day challenge on it right now with testosterone and peptides. You can follow me. We'll continue to give you guys updates on that. All right, Drew, let's do it. For the special force rescue. Welcome to the Tier one podcast.

[B]

This is amazing, dude.

[A]

Check this out. And with us today, we have retired Master Sergeant Mike Edwards. 22 years of service, including most of that in Ranger regiment and some of it in Ranger Recon company as well. Rrc. Welcome to the show, Mike.

[B]

Thanks for having me, brother.

[A]

Of course you. We did more than that. And, and we're going to get into it, especially your. Your, your time as a freefall Instructor.

[B]

Yeah, it was a good time.

[A]

I'm sure you got. Sure. You got a few stories jumping out of airplanes with, uh, with rookies.

[B]

Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. That's an interesting time. For sure.

[A]

First things first, though, I want to give you a gift from Brotherhood Blades.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You can never have enough knives. That one's got the Tier 1 logo on there to commemorate your time. And also tasty gains. Wanted to make sure I gave you some. Some creatine.

[B]

Appreciate that.

[A]

You don't look like you're a stranger to the gym, so you might get more out of that gift than. Than other gu.

[B]

I tried to try to stay fit.

[A]

Let's get into it. Where'd you grow up at?

[B]

So I grew up in Alabama, in central Alabama. Just a country boy back in the woods, running around the woods, shooting BB guns with my brother, hunting and fishing. Yeah. Just a standard lifestyle, you know, as a country boy in the Southeast.

[A]

That surprises me.

[B]

It landed good to what I was going to do, you know, later on in life. For sure.

[A]

For sure. That's. That's where he ended. Ended up at as well. When it was all said and done, life came full circle on you.

[B]

Yep. Still live there. Out in the middle of nowhere, out in the country.

[A]

I'm. I'm jealous. So what. How old were you when you joined and why the army?

[B]

So my dad was in the army. He was an officer in the army. And so I. I didn't really ever think about it as following his footsteps, per se, but, you know, I just saw. I only knew really of the Army. The only people I had around me were in the Army. So as I got older in high school, I just had this wild hair that popped up one time, and I was like, hey, let me go join the National Guard. It was no influence in my dad or anything. Just rolled out, joined the National Guard. And actually, believe it or not, I started in a communications unit in the National Guard, did some drills there, and then signed up and I did the. The boot camp, like, split option program. So I went basic training in the junior year or my summer between my junior and senior of high school, and then went back to my senior year and then graduated, went to boot camp, and then actually committed to infantry after that. So. And I'll pause there.

[A]

What would. Would your dad say when you're like, hey, Dad, I joined the army?

[B]

He, He. I guess he was kind of surprised because he never really pushed me to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then he. After he saw that I was interested, then he tried to guide my steps a little bit. So he was an officer. He wanted me to be an officer. So then he ended up talking me into going to Marion Military Institute, which is a school that he was the professor of military science or assistant professor of military science at the time. So he talked me into going there. And so I did that and started my career to be an officer in the army like him. I did all the schooling, was really good at all the tactical piece of it, was good at all the. The physical fitness piece of it and all that kind of stuff. But I was too mature, just wanted to party and drink and stuff like that. So my grades slumped in some areas. So ultimately I finished my time there and ended up having to take some summer school classes to get my commission. And I. I had actually, believe it or not, I had a Green Beret from 20th Group, a National Guard SF dude who is one of my TAC officers. He was supposed to keep us from partying and drinking too much barracks, but he was hanging out in my room

[A]

drinking with me, doing a horrible job.

[B]

Yeah. And he was. His name is Sergeant Phillips, by the way. This dude's an amazing dude. I gotta, I gotta throw it out there because I've bumped into that dude throughout my career.

[A]

Have you?

[B]

Yeah, all throughout my career. I bumped into him at Fort Bragg when I was going to the Freefall School and all kinds of stuff. So anyway, this dude was like, you don't want to be an officer dude. You'd be a great enlisted guy. So he straight talked me into it. So I ended up withdrawn, failing, and left there and just went back into the civilian world. Started building swimming pools for a bit and then, okay, end up going active duty.

[A]

We. We make the same joke all the time because it's true. You want to make God laugh, Tell him your plans. Oh, it's so funny, you know? And of course I was going to make the joke. The younger, the younger you are, the worse you are planning or guessing your future. But that's actually not true at all. I've been. I've been pretty bad my whole life about guessing what I was going to do that, you know, five years down the road or whatever it is. Which is why it's so important not to get. It's a balance, right? Like you want to get laser focused and you should be on what you want to do, but you also have to be able to realize, hey, when. When God closes that door or something else is calling. Let's. It's. It's time to pivot. Nothing That's. I think it's really hard to. To decipher. And again, the younger you are, I think the harder it. It is. But it seems like you pivoted just fine on, on that one.

[B]

Yeah. You know, I guess he just didn't have it in for me to be an officer, you know what I mean? And like, we, we talked about earlier, all this stuff there kind of. I guess it kind of set me up for the discipline that I need for the things that I do now.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's. That's a good point. It's also kind of funny that even when you don't do those things, when you get to look back, you can see that it was still. It wasn't all for nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you, when you look at it through the correct lens, you're like, you know what? That was for a reason. That was still value added. There was a reason I still had to go through that.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. I mean, even the stuff that I did in military school, it built who I was, so I was a better, you know, tab spec, Forward Ranger regiment because of having all those officer skills and all the officer training that I had. I think it helped me be more professional, even as an enlisted guy, you know, for sure.

[A]

Did you, when you went to infantry, is that when you went active duty or did you go infantry in the National Guard still?

[B]

I was infantry in the Guard, actually. So I went infantry in the National Guard. Did some drills there. And then I was in that military school. Right. Because my dad wanted me to be there. So I was a cadet and then went to airborne school as a cadet and then found out that 20th group was recruiting ROTC cadets who were airborne qualified to be in the SF thing. Basically. You just trained for the Q course the whole time. Yeah, so I ended up being an nqp. NQP in the National Guard SF units. Yeah. So all I did was get crushed by SF dudes every weekend training for selection.

[A]

It's so funny, just your story. And I joined, you know, the National Guard was, Was. Was my first unit, you know, and then I was a part of 20th group, and then I was an NQP through 20th group. So I knew everything that, that you're talking about.

[B]

Which, which company? Which battalion?

[A]

A320, so 3rd Battalion. And that's out of Florida here. They used to be out of Ocala. I think they moved to. To Jacksonville.

[B]

Yeah, I was in Auburn, Alabama, and

[A]

then I had friends over there. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I was also a safari constructor in out of Alabama. Trying to think of that. That city where the Kwylan.

[B]

Right.

[A]

McClellan. Fort McClellan is where they do their. Their instruction app. Yes. That place is. Is. Is. Has. Has some Green Berets in it there in Alabama. So it's not too far fetched that. That you ran into a few.

[B]

Yeah. And they have a. They have a breacher course up there and all kinds of stuff, I think now.

[A]

Yeah, they have some. That. They have some. Some of the best courses I went to were 20th group National Guard courses. Their four week sniper course. I learned just as much as that course as I learned through the level one course, generally speaking.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Their CQB. Great. They're level two for human. They just. Their 20th group in general is a really. They have a good culture and so they have a bunch of good dudes that. That, that maintain it. But which is awesome that you got to run on those dudes and you thought highly of them and that they helped kind of. Even though you didn't become a Green Beret even. We're not. We're not gonna hold that against you.

[B]

So. Unless. Back it up then. So my dad always advised me to be a Green Beret. He's like, you want to be the brains, not the brawn. He's like, the Rangers are the brawn. The Green Berets are the brains. And I was like, yeah. And I. I was. I really wanted to be a Green Beret. Like I heart. I. I definitely wanted to be, but it just didn't line up in the cards. You know, I took the PT test and everything was going to do that, and we can get into that later. But as I went in the big army, it just didn't pan out that way. But that's what I originally wanted to do is be a Green Beret.

[A]

Yeah. Well. Yeah, you're already an nqp. What. What. What happened?

[B]

Well, so I left there and then I went. So I was doing that while I was in college. Bailed out of there after college. I was no longer a cadet, so I didn't even qualify to be in that unit anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I went just regular army enlisted. Went to third ID for a bit. Ended up taking the PT test to be a Green Beret. Passed the PT test, had a date for selection and all that kind of stuff. And then I got orders to Korea and they couldn't pull me from it. And I was like, oh, no. So I got stuck.

[A]

Oh, man. What? What? A fork in the road.

[B]

Yeah, another fork.

[A]

Right. The Future. You know, SF you know, what year is this, roughly?

[B]

That was two. That was 98, 99 or 99, 2000 time frame, actually.

[A]

Okay. You know, from going to do kind of special operation things and, you know, getting excited about, you know, that. That future to. Even though I didn't go to it, I. My little brother did. I know a lot of people who did. I couldn't think of a bigger 180 than going from SF selection and that future to Korea.

[B]

Oh, Korea. Korea was horrible.

[A]

I don't know anyone's ever gotten to Korea is like, I love Korea. I mean, I'm sure they're out there. I just haven't run into them.

[B]

No, I didn't. I didn't enjoy it, but I did try to, like, rein myself in. I heard dudes get in trouble a lot when they go over there. So what I tried to do is, like, be responsible with my drinking and I tried to work out and stay in the gym and try not to get in trouble, and it worked out. But then 911 happened while I was there, so kind of threw another little monkey wrench on it.

[A]

I've also heard about just the weather being really bad in Korea. I don't. Were you there long enough for. For a winter?

[B]

Yeah, it was. Oh, yeah, it's cold. It's freaking cold in the winter time. I mean, it snows like crazy. It was the coldest that I had ever experienced. You know, being from Alabama, I never really. I mean, we got some snow here and there. Not like that. Right? You know?

[A]

Yeah. Going through 911 and in Korea, I mean, you're. You're. You're in the military, but you're in a foreign country. It's like, you can't be there, like in, In. In the. In the homeland, you know, when something bad happened. I don't know what was the mindset when. When you're in Korea and you hear that news.

[B]

Yeah, that was. So we saw the planes flying to the World Trade Centers, you know, the tower, smoking and all that stuff. So it was a big shocker. But at that point, I was dead set on getting out of the Army. I was almost done with my year in Korea. I hated the army so bad. Like, all I was doing was pulling grass and sweeping and mopping. I was like a glorified janitor, basically, you know, So I was like, man, I gotta get out. But then I started. The wheels started spinning. And this one guy, I bumped into a guy who had gotten kicked out of Ranger regiment, who was in my unit. Super. He was like the Stud of the unit, though. And he was like, you want to. He's like, you want to do this stuff? You want to go fight in war? He's like, you need to join Ranger Regiment. He's like, it's your fastest way to get there and get into combat.

[A]

Sure is.

[B]

And so I was like, all right. Never even heard of Rangers. You know, my dad told me about Green Berets, but I never even heard of Rangers. I bumped into Green Berets, but never even seen a Ranger. So I ended up re enlisted for third Ranger Baton, and I wanted third Ranger baton because it's close to Alabama. I wanted to get close to home, at least, you know, because I'm a homeboy, and I didn't want to be too far from home after that time in Korea. So I reenlisted for 3rd Ranger Battalion with orders to go through RIP at the time, and then went in and, you know, that started my career in

[A]

the regiment, I'm assuming, because it was a reenlistment. It was. It was easy for you to do that. Yeah. Is that. Is that correct?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you heard of. Of anyone else that. That wanted to do that? Would it be more difficult? Because that. Because just, you know, regular infantry life was. Was foreign to me. You know, I went to the National Guard, then I went Special Operations. So I didn't. I didn't get. That's not my background. How hard is it for just a regular infantry guy at a. At a young age to be like, hey, I want to go to Ranger Regiment Just on a whim?

[B]

Yeah, it was. It was relatively easy because there was a contractual process for it. And the cool thing is they could lock you in. I didn't realize that Rangers could lock you in and keep you from getting these orders, whereas I was surprised the SF guys couldn't do that at the time.

[A]

I am surprised, too. I. I believe that's changed since then, but, yeah, I'm. I'm surprised that. That SFAs wouldn't have superseded that, but it was. It was in the late.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. Well. But the Rangers somehow figured it out before SF did, how to lock their guys in.

[B]

Yeah, they locked me in, and then I went there, and So I just PT'd myself, you know, I didn't know anything about it. I just knew I was kind of scared of it, to be honest. For some reason, like, I wasn't scared of SF because I had met SF dudes, actually. You know, I mean, I wasn't scared of the process because I had met them. I'M like, they're real humans still.

[A]

Right?

[B]

But I'd never met a Ranger, and the process terrified me. So I. The way I looked at it, I was like, you know, still to this day, the harder I am on myself, the easier it is when others are hard on me. So I just pt'd the crap out of myself to set myself up for selection.

[A]

I love that. And it's so true. We get in our own minds all the time, just in. In whether it be the fear of the unknown, you know, and, you know, just like you went to several selection processes, you know, so did I. And there were times certain. Certain ones were bigger in my mind than others, but I just had to keep reminding myself that, hey, whatever giants, I. I put them to be in my mind like they're other men, and other men pass this. So you at least have a chance to. Yeah, but. But with that chance, it depends on what. What did you do to prepare for this?

[B]

Yeah, and. And that's the thing. I've. I was always a PT stud. I was always like the. The PT award. So I was that dude that carried the battalion colors with all the streamers on it, because I was the dude that could run five miles carrying that thing, you know, So I was always the PT stud. But I was like, I'm going to a unit where, like, the PT stud here is trash there. So, yeah, what do I do? And I had nobody to talk to. You could. It was. It isn't like today, the podcast, the guys like us talking about it. Yeah, like, I just. I was reading books, you know, on Delta Force back in the day. Remember those books? Old Delta Force book from, you know, the. The founder of Delta Force and then Ranger books from Vietnam. I was reading that stuff to see what they did, and I'm like, this is what they do. And I need to do these things to prepare for it. So I did know that ruck marching was part of it, and I liked ruck marching, so I just rocked, rocked, rocked. And I practiced putting a little bit more weight going further and further distances faster and faster and faster.

[A]

I had a. I had a team sergeant used to tell people, you know, he was, of course, sf, Ranger, Dive. Just all the awards. And every now and again, some. Some guy would come up and ask him, like, hey, how's Ranger school? Like, ah, it's easy. You should go. Hey, how's dive school? Easy. You should go. I was always, why do you tell people that? It's like, if they think it's easy and they take my word for it and go. They. They deserve what's coming. I think that's so hilarious. Like. Like that. That should. That should be the answer. Because I never asked anyone, even when I had access to people. I just. I'd rather not know.

[B]

That's true. That's a good point.

[A]

I'd rather. I don't think. I don't think knowing. I know it's weird to say. I don't think knowing helps you because what you think it is in your mind in the day isn't. Isn't what it's going to be.

[B]

And not to mention, you get in your mind. Like me and one of the guys we mentioned off camera that used to work with you. We were talking about this too. Like, all these guys have all this information and it probably sets them up for. For failure for selection because they're like, it's supposed to go this way and it doesn't exactly align like that. Crush just immediately crushed. Right. Because the script isn't exactly how they. They were told that it would be. And it's going to change each and every selection. Even though the curriculum is the same, it's slightly different.

[A]

There's always variables.

[B]

Yeah, there's always, always variables.

[A]

Yeah. You're not getting the same lane he got. You're not getting the same instructor. There's still variables. And to, I think to put it more into words kind of about what you said, if I don't know what it is, the way you didn't know what it is. So if I meet back that up a second, if I. If I think I know what it is, then I will train for what I think it is. If I don't know what it is, I have no choice but just to train like an animal for everything. And I said that might be the first time I've been able to really verbal. Verbalize why I think it's better to not know now.

[B]

That's a really good point, the way you put that. Yeah. You're not training for a specific thing. You're trained for everything. You're going to be holistically prepared versus, like laser focused. And then when that focus isn't there, you fall off. You know what I mean?

[A]

Absolutely. When. When you got to. Is. Was it called RIP when. When you went. Yep, was. Tell me about the RIP process. I don't think. I don't know if we've had on this podcast, you actually. You'll be our first ranger.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yes. Yeah, you will be.

[B]

So RIP was. It was brutal, man. It was only Four weeks. When I went through, it was just a selection. Right now they have a selection with like a little bit of a training pipeline. The kid dude's ready. But back then it was just a selection, man. And they were just trying to break you off. Like there was a big area they called the blacktop. It's literally black asphalt pavement. But they paint it black so it's extra black. So it extra reflects the heat, you know, or absorbs the heat, right? And then you're doing push ups on that thing all day long in the front lean and rest. I mean just getting smoked. Like what people think of like buds, right? And they're like hell week. This is like four weeks of what their hell week would be. That's really all it was. There was no training, no learning anything. You did learn the history of the Ranger regiment and different things like that, learn the creed and stuff like that. But it was all about getting your teeth kicked in just to see if you had what it takes to make it as a Ranger. Because after that you're not in, dude, you get to a Ranger battalion, you're not in. You're not in until you get that Ranger tab, right? You got about another year of probation where you're getting your teeth kicked in by dudes who are already going over to war and stuff, right? And so that's kind of what it was, man. It was a ball crusher.

[A]

Of course they, they already had a, A, a storied career of putting boots to new guys. You know, that's, that's. And now, and now you have post 911 rip and Ranger regimen where, where they're as if they needed any extra motivation to take it very serious that they got it, you know. And I, I did. I loved going through my selection and training pipelines that I went to. Like because most of everything I knew was because I signed up because for 9 11. So the only army I knew at the beginning was a very serious were going to war army. And I think it. And also gave us a. I'd imagine just like you because there had been brand new guys that were leaving from basic training to, you know, to rip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And those guys signed up because their country was attacked. And so you had a great group of guys that wanted to be there legitimately in it. Yeah.

[B]

Well then. And like you said, here I am in. I'm already an E4. I've already been in the army like nearly four years by the time I'm graduating through RIP and I show up and I got dudes that have been in the army for two years that are already in the squad, you know, and they're just crushing me, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I had all the book knowledge and I was physically fit so I could hang with everybody because I was always really fit, so I could hang with the fitness. So that didn't mess with me. I could hang with the knowledge. I had the FM7.8 pretty much memorized back then.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so that I could hang there so they couldn't mess with me a ton. But still, I had younger dudes, and there was kind of a kick to the teeth, you know, that we're like two years in, I'm four years in, and they're telling me what to do,

[A]

you know, swallow your pride a little bit. Yeah, the. I've always heard, like, you alluded to where you do that. So, like, you alluded to, once you're in, you're not really in. Like, you got to get your short tab. And so I've always heard to get your short tab, it's kind of a. Essentially an order of merit list. But PT weighs heavily on that order of merit list. Tell me about that. Like, how do. How do you. How do you get there to Ranger School as fast as possible?

[B]

Oh, yeah, dude. PT is high up on the list. Yeah. If you're not getting a 300 on the PT test, you're probably not even going to be even looked at because every dude there is getting 300 on the PT test. So, like, most of them are. You're, like, competing with dudes on the extended scale. But so there's that. And then it's that knowledge of the FM 7. 8. Right. Because you're going to be doing small unit infantry tactics in Ranger School, and you need to be an expert at it. So it's the knowledge of that, but mainly the physical fitness. Because the physical fitness, as, you know, like, and you go to Ranger school and places like that, you're going to get beat down. So this level of physical fitness is going to trickle down, and you still got to be able to finish strong. So they want to make sure that you can get there and finish it, you know, with your fitness. The fitness level that you have here

[A]

at the Tier 1 podcast, we're excited to have Tasty Gains as a sponsor, a company with values that aligns with ours. I take their products every day, three times a day, and if it wasn't a product that I didn't take personally and believe in and a company with integrity, then they wouldn't be sponsors on this show creatine helps the body produce more ATP, which is an energy molecule that your entire body runs on. It helps improve your physical and mental performance in all aspects of life. Let's be honest, creatine powder sucks to take every day. With the creatine gummies, you can take them with you anywhere and they taste great. Every batch is third party tested, so you know you're getting exactly what you pay for. Go to tastygains.com and enter the promo code tier one. That's T I E R the number one. And get 20% off your order. I've always loved that and respected that about rangers. I do wish that's where I would have grown up. I've said that before and I still would have been, I still would have went to, to be a green brave. I do wish I'd have grown up Ranger regiment. And I respect them because of their standards, their culture and their standards. If you hold people to a 3, like the minimum score is 300 if you want to succeed here. That's just the minimum score. People will meet it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you, but if you, if you make it, if you make it 270. Most guys will now make it 270. Like guys will adjust and they will meet a standard, make it high for us.

[B]

I didn't even know, I've never even known what the standards were except the 100, you know, I mean, what's the 300? I know those standards. That's what I shoot for every time. Because I never knew what anything else was.

[A]

Yeah, I was at, I was a B knock. Is it bnoc? And some guy comes up and goes, I mean, what's, what's the, what's the minimum standards for sit ups? He asked me some question and I'm an sf.

[B]

You're like blown away.

[A]

I looked at him, I disgusted. I don't know. In fact, I don't even know what the, what the standard is for the max, because I have my standard. My standard is 100 push ups, 100 sit ups and a 12 minute 2 mile. I didn't always meet that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I knew if I was just a little bit off, I'm.

[B]

You still.

[A]

I'm still max. It. I know. What's the minimum standard?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why would you ever ask that?

[B]

Yeah, I know how appalling. You know, I mean, for guys like Gus, this is appalling. Like why would you ever shoot yourself so low? You know what I mean?

[A]

That's about. I love that, love that, that mentality that you Had. So how long did it take you to get to Ranger school?

[B]

I made it there and Right. At about a year. And things were different. Right. They had already. The GWAD had kicked off. So it happened when I was in Korea. So I came over there. Ranger battalion already deployed twice. Like, 3rd Ranger Battalion already deployed twice to Afghanistan. So I've come back, and these dudes are giving me crap because they didn't shot bad guys already. And here I am, like, just straight out of RIP So we did a training pipeline. We trained balls to the walls for that whole period of time. And then I jumped into Iraq. So I got a combat jump into Iraq, jumped in, seized an airfield in Iraq, came back. There was like a super short deployment, like two months. We jumped in. We were back by like the end of April. And then I was in Ranger school by May. So I went to Ranger school right after I jumped into Iraq.

[A]

How cool is that?

[B]

Yeah, it was good. Mustard stain.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, back when we cared about those badges and stuff. You know what I mean? I had this little mustard stain on my wings.

[A]

It's still cool.

[B]

Yeah. It.

[A]

That a combat jump is. Is still cool. I don't. I don't care how. How big it was, how small it was, just the. The opportunity to do it. It's pretty cool. If you had to. Well, one's much longer than the other one. But before we get into Ranger school, I'll ask you probably an unfair question. If you had to do one over the other, would you do Ranger school again or RIP Was that a tougher question than I thought it might be?

[B]

It is a lot tougher question. I would have thought it'd be. I think RIP back was just a suck fest, to be honest. I didn't learn anything from it back then. I'd say Ranger school was probably more. I learned more. Even though it wasn't as sucky. It was longer suck, but not as an intense suck. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, that. That surprises me a little bit. But actually. But actually goes to show really what. You know, what. What RIP really was.

[B]

Yeah. Back then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now RIP nowadays, now they've created rasp, which I actually try to help create that. I was like, we need more than just a selection. We need a little bit of a pipeline to get these dudes up to speed. So they created that a little bit after I was cadre there because of our influence. You know, it was about midway through the G wat so now it's probably a lot better. I would probably rather go there because they're doing a lot of shooting and all kinds of stuff now too.

[A]

And, and, and tell the audience what the, what RIP and RASP stand for.

[B]

So RIP stands for the Ranger Indoctrination Program, which that's all it was that indoctrinated you basically in, in the history and knowledge and then just crush you physically. Well, now it's, it's called raft, the Ranger Assessment Selection Program. So they're actually assessing guys more to select them than just crushing them and seeing who, who shakes out at the end, you know.

[A]

Did you go through a summer or winter ranger school?

[B]

Summertime, yeah. They say winter's worse, but summer sucks, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

There's.

[A]

As if one's easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Summer definitely sucked. And it's cold in the mountains, man, up in North Georgia. I was told by an officer, he was like, when you go to ranger school, he's like, even though it's North Georgia, he's like, it's cold in those mountains, even summer. I was like, that's impossible. I'm telling you. When I was up there in the mountains, it rained the whole time during my mountain phase. I swear it probably not. Never got above 60 degrees and we were wet and shivering the whole time, even though it was summertime.

[A]

Yeah. Were you first time go at everything in ranger school?

[B]

Yep, first time straight through. I can't believe it. Made it straight through and everything.

[A]

And, and describe the three phases of Ranger school.

[B]

So you've got the, the phase at Fort Benning, which is Darby phase, what they call it, that kind of preps you out, like, gets you started on like squad tactics and stuff. And then you move up to the mountains where you're. Now you're walking in the mountains of North Georgia, so the train's a lot steeper and tougher. And then you're working in like a platoon size element. And then you culminate down in Florida in the panhandle, Florida, doing like they call the swamp phase, where you're doing everything but you're now doing in water, in boats, up and down the rivers, going through swamps, but the same kind of thing. And then do like a culminating event going across the sound and then hitting a raid on the beach over there.

[A]

So do you ever feel unsafe in the swamps of Florida?

[B]

No. I mean, honestly, like, like I talked about my wife about this the other day. They were talking about alligators. I'm like scared of dang alligator, man. That thing's gonna flee from me if I come walking towards it, man. But yeah, we were the. What I hated the most was the cypress stumps, man. Dude, guys would be tripping. Like, you'd see little short dudes, right? The water's chest deep on me, and I'm six two. So like, some of these short dudes, like, the water's like, to their neck, and then all of a sudden, you see him trip gone, son. Like, all you see is the rope, the rock floating on the water. This dude's like strangling underneath it. Oh, my gosh. It was brutal.

[A]

Oh, it would. The podcast would be four hours if. If we got into ranger school stories. But after this, I will. I will take some from you in the garage. But if. Is there. Is there something always ridiculous happens. Is there anything you can think of in a range of school that, like, you're not gonna believe what this guy did or what I did.

[B]

It was me. And I'll tell two of them really, really quick.

[A]

Yeah, we'll take it.

[B]

So one, I was taking a knee. You know, you got night vision, but it's like PBS 7 Deltas. Like that one thing or like, it's 2 to 1 or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I. That kicked up because nobody was using them during things anyway. And just sitting there and I'm like, taking a knee, and I see the dude in front of me, and I'm waiting on him to move. You know what I mean? So we don't get a break in contact, waiting on him to move. I'm just looking at the dude in front of me, and I look around a little bit, look background, look back at the dude in front of me, and I'm like. I reach out and touch him. Like, that's a freaking pine tree, dude. They had already left. It wasn't that far. It was only like maybe 100 yards, but I was able to run up there and catch up with him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then another time, I was standing there pulling security, talking to a guy. And this is how sleepy you are in ranger school. Like, I lost 50 pounds. Like, I'm. I'm normally, back then, I was like £225, a little bigger than I am now. When I went to ranger school, I went down to 175 in Ranger School. So you're starved and you're tired, and so I'm standing there talking to a dude, just like, trying to keep. Stay awake while pulling security at night. And all of a sudden, this dude just literally collapses. And just like the light switch was flipped off, hit the ground. Then he stands right back up and he's like, man, I just fell asleep. Well, we're talking. It literally happens to me two seconds later. Next thing I know, I'm picking myself off the ground. I'm like, dang, what happened? He's like, you just passed out.

[A]

It's a. But it really is. It's amazing what the human body can do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even though it just did that you bounce back from.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like it was permanent. Like it's crazy. What, how £50. That's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a 60 day school, correct?

[B]

Yeah. 60 something. Yeah.

[A]

Generally speaking, it's one to two MREs a day and four hours of sleep at night. Is that, Is that a.

[B]

That's what the generality. I know there was times that we had less sleep than that a night for sure. And nowadays I think it's probably more that.

[A]

Right. And that depends on your performance.

[B]

Yeah, it depends on your performance. I mean there were nice down as an emergency. They were like, go lay down now. And we kicked back, slept for like 30 minutes and then started the next day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So it's brutal. And yeah. About one to two meals a day or two MREs a day when I was in. And then there was a period in Florida where something would happen and your food got ambushed and you were shorted some meals, so you ended up only having a meal a day for a couple days. So at the end when you're really sucking.

[A]

Right. And again, yeah, I mentioned the 60 day part. Like just for. For the audience to realize we're talking about four hours of sleep, sometimes less. Not a lot of food. It takes his toll for a week. It takes his toll for a month, two months in a row. Like what that does to the body. How long did it take? How long do you think it took you to recover from ranger school?

[B]

Well, they say that it takes about a year and I would say probably so. I mean, guys, bodies are still trying to figure themselves out after that. Your metabolism's all jacked up because you just been burning hard with no calories for so long.

[A]

You know, do I wonder if they would if, if, if they were to do a. If it has some sort of long term effects to either your metabolism or to you physically. Because that's just. That isn't a. That is a really long time. And before in the 90s, they used to have a fourth phase of desert phase.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And range school was like 75 days or something.

[B]

They did away with that like a couple years before I went for maybe five or six years, maybe a little longer than that before I went and

[A]

of course, the irony of that is they held on the desert phase for so long until we needed desert phase, and we were going to desert environments, and we quit doing desert phase, and we never brought it back.

[B]

Yeah, right. And they had. They had the mechanism already built and never brought it back. Yeah, I thought they were gonna bring it back, but, yeah, they never did.

[A]

Yeah. So when you. When. How much time do they give you off? Or when. When you successfully graduate Ranger school, you. You come back, like, I got here for, like, 30 days, kid. Or is it. Or is it. Would they do anything for you?

[B]

Yeah, you get some time off in range of return because they know your body's beat down, but it's not much. I mean, it's maybe like a week. Maybe like a week or something like that.

[A]

You just sleep the whole time anyway

[B]

and just eat, eat, eat. I remember I went to this place called. I can't remember the name of it now. I was thinking it was this place called Smokey Bones, because I used to like them, and I was a big connoisseur of ribs. And I got, like, two full racks of ribs and crush those things, man. Just trying to put some weight back on.

[A]

Do you remember what your first meal was? And because I know when you get to the end of schools like that, people start talking about, this is. I can't wait to have this when I get out.

[B]

It was two full racks. It was actually Applebee's. It was Applebee's. Two full racks of ribs. And I remember all my family was there for the graduation, and I ordered a rack of ribs, and they brought them out, and I crushed them. I ordered a second rack, and the lady was like, I can't give him another rack. Like, that's just gonna waste some food. My mom's like, he could eat this before Ranger school. I guarantee you can eat it right now. So they brought it back, and I crushed a whole nother rack of ribs.

[A]

I'm actually a little bit surprised you could, because I believe, like, your stomach can expand and contract. So I'm. I'm kind of surprised your stomach could. Could take all that.

[B]

But, hey, man, I've always wanted to eat a lot.

[A]

Yeah. So you get back to your. To your company, and now you're a Tab Spec four. You're somebody. You're. You're finally. You're finally a part of the crew.

[B]

Kind of.

[A]

Kind of, yeah. Why? How's that?

[B]

And I'll tell you kind of. And this is because we had done so at this time. Not too Long before this, we had had a lot a live fire training or, sorry, a blank fire training event that had happened with one of the companies, not my company, but another company, where a live round was inserted with some blanks and had shot a blank adapter off and had hit a dude and sent him to the hospital.

[A]

Right, I heard about that.

[B]

So they were like, big on, like, brass and ammo shakedowns, right? Which is not really a thing that we did, but it was a big on a brass and ammo shake. So we just got done with a range, doing a live fire. I was a team leader, as a corporal team leader. So I checked all my dudes after they were done. I checked all their stuff first them down. And then afterwards I had one of my guys check me and he checked all my bags on my LC or whatever. We had rack or whatever. Then we go back, throw my rack in the thing. And then about two or three days later, my platoon sergeant asked me to come be an RSO for a range. Just static rso. And I'm like, all right. So I grabbed my rack, my helmet and stuff, took it with me, and then threw it in the bus. But I never needed it because I was just rso. Well, then at the end of the range, they get ready to do the shakedown to make sure everybody's got no brass and ammo. So then I was like, hey, do I need to bring my stuff off the bus? You know? And they're like, yeah, bring it off. And I go to grab my. My rack. And as I pick it up, I hear this loud metal clank sound in one of the pouches. I'm like, what is that? There's a freaking smoke grenade in there. And I'm like, ah, dude. So I bring it out there, I lay it out. And then as they. I didn't say anything. I should have said something beforehand, but I didn't. I was just like, maybe it won't get caught. Well, they come by and then as the platoon sergeant comes across, I just went ahead and told him. I was like, hey, there's a smoke grenade in there. I had it from the last range, didn't realize until I sat it down and oh, my God, they destroyed me. So they took off with the bus load. Everybody up in the bus. And I as an E4 tab D4, I was IMT and I, I'm up, he sees me, I'm down, I'm up, he sees me, I'm down. Bear crawling low, crawling for like three miles all the way back to to battalion, that's nothing. They got tired of waiting on me because I'm so slow. So they went out and took the bus, and they sent my squad leader back with a Humvee to continue next to me. So he's riding, looking out the window like, hurry up, let's go. Get all the way back. Then I get there, and so we've got the headquarters and then we got the barracks up the hill. And we all lived in the barracks back then. So they made me take like, IMT to the barracks, get my canteen cap, bring it back, go back, get the lanyard for the canteen cap. I had to get every individual piece of my TA50 individually. Imting and bringing. That took like another eight hours. But that was my indoctrination as a brand new team leader that just messed up in Ranger Battalion.

[A]

I, I love standards, and I understand standards. Smoke grenade. Yeah, it's not lethal. It's a grenade. I don't, I don't. But hey, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's their crude to run as, as, as they, as they see fit. And that's, that's what they, that's, that's how they saw fit. How long were, were you there before you guys got deployed? So would have been like your first?

[B]

Well, I deployed before I went to Ranger school.

[A]

Right, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I jumped in Iraq.

[A]

You did a two month. You guys go on hits in that, in that two months?

[B]

Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. We did some raids. It wasn't, it wasn't what I thought war was going to be like. I got to shoot my gun. I got to shoot it at people. Don't know if I hit any people, but there was people that I shot at, you know, I mean, so it was an ambush, you know, so I'm like, hey, I did. I got to do war, but it just wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And so then my next deployment was Afghanistan. Same thing. It was a wintertime deployment in Afghanistan. We patrolled around the snow, did a bunch of stuff, movements back and forth. Never fired a shot, you know? Yeah, so it took a little while before I actually started getting in some gunfights and things of that nature.

[A]

Yeah. What, what area in Afghanistan were you at? Do you remember?

[B]

We were in the skin area kind of initially up there near the border and then kind of moving up through. We drove through Gosling, got snowed in. Remember, like when some Ozark trail tents, we put them things out, woke up, and they were Completely covered in snow.

[A]

Yeah, the. The war did get quiet over there in the east and on. On the border as a. In winter months. Yeah, those. Which is why the. The south is usually. Usually pretty good and central the whole time. But it like. But like anything else like that, war came in waves, and so did deployments. You could have a pretty quiet whole deployment. You could have a crazy deployment, and you could have both. You have a deployment that's. Nothing's going on for a whole month, and then it goes crazy and it goes back to quiet again. So I think people hear these stories and read these books, and they just think combat's crazy. It can be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I would say out of all my time, deployed was probably more. More downtime. Not probably was more. More downtime and normal than. Than it was crazy.

[B]

Deployments were the most peaceful time of my life. I didn't have to worry about my bank. I didn't have to worry about paying the bills. My wife or my mom or somebody was taking care of the house for me, so I'd have to worry about that. I just had to wake up, eat food, go to the gym, and kill bad guys. It was literally the most peaceful time. But you're right. There's a. There were entire deployments. Multiple entire deployments. Out of all mine that I did, I never fired a shot or even really even encountered bad guys in a weird way. But then there was times where it's just night after night after night after night after night, and you're like, God, dog, this is kind of getting a little sketchy. But then you're like, all right, cool. And then the next appointment. Yeah. Like you said, I'd done deployments where three months in, never fired a shot. And then all of a sudden, it's an onslaught for the last month, you know?

[A]

Yeah. And it's. And it's why you do them waiting, Waiting, waiting for that. Waiting for that next combat high, if. If you will. It sounds a little strange to, I guess, to say it out loud, but. But it's why you signed up. Like, it's. It's why you went there. You went there to do something. You didn't. You didn't go there to. To. To work out and not miss a meal. Although. Although I'll take it. But, you know, that's. That's not. It's not. It's not what we signed up for. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, we signed up to kill bad guys, you know, So I wanted to kill bad guys. And like I say to people, I consider myself a Deployment whore. Like, I volunteered for deployments all the time, especially when I got to rrc because I really enjoyed the work there and it was different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And I just felt very invested into it because like, you're into the network, into the whole story system there. So, yeah, I volunteered for those things. But, you know, back then, like, we were trained to be killing machines, man. And like, when you're in that mode, that's all you want to do, you know?

[A]

Right. I mean, if you think about it, you know, we're talking about the Ranger regiment. We're talking about an elite US Military unit who does just that. They are there. They're a hammer for bad guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so if you go somewhere and you don't do that, you almost feel not utilized correctly. You could have sent anyone over here to do nothing. So it's absolutely true. Like you should have wanted to do. It's why you went through R.I.P. it's why you went through range school. It's why you push yourself harder than everyone else because you felt like. And you proved that you could do more than. Than anyone else. So. So give us, Give us a task accordingly.

[B]

Yeah, you're exactly right. The Ranger regiment, for those that don't understand, it's like, it's like the skeleton key for the United States. It's the forcible entry force to get you guys in to get, you know, Seal Team 6 in, to get whoever else in. That's the forcible entry. They can go to any country, anywhere with enough firepower to breach that place and open the, the airhead line to let other forces come in.

[A]

You know, if you've ever been to any of my tactical training classes, then you know how adamant I am about the use of white light and the importance of a quality high powered tactical light. That's why I use cloud defensive tac lights. You can't hit what you can't see and neither can the bad guys. Clearly identify your target and simultaneously overwhelm his vision with hundreds and even thousands of lumens. Get serious about defending yourself and your family. Go to clouddefensive.com and use promo code tier one to get 30% off your order. That's right, 30%. You won't find a better light than this and you won't find a better deal than this did. I enjoyed working with Rangers because you, generally speaking, you. You knew what you were going to get. They were. They were a standardized product of just of competency, a standardized product of fitness, a standardized product which is. Which Was part, part robot, if you will do what you're told, but with both. A little bit of problem solving, you know, mixed in there an appropriate amount, you know.

[B]

So that's the way it is, man. It really is. And that discipline is a good core fundamental that leads to being productive other places like in your unit. Because you like, think about it, to have an elite unit, you have to have discipline. Have to have. Then you can let them think as well. And now you have the most elite unit. You know what I mean?

[A]

It was the same exact. You can't, you can't do it. Reverse discipline has to be the foundation. Yeah. And you can add on, you can add on top of that.

[B]

Yeah, you can add to discipline, but you can't put anything before the discipline.

[A]

Yeah, you can.

[B]

I mean you end up with. I'm not going to say it, but you end up with other units.

[A]

Yeah. And, and I'll say it because. And I should be the one to say it. No, no one better. No, it's kind of like your little brother kind of syndrome. Like, I'll make fun of my little brother. You made fun of my little brother? How dare you. Yeah, but sf, oh man, that I love, I love being a Green Beret. I loved sf, but they're really. Now don't get me wrong, a company can have a good culture, but for the most part teams drove the culture. So it's really down to a team level. So you could have really high performing teams and you could have mediocre teams right next to each other and in the same company. And don't get me wrong, those high performing teams is kind of contagious. Like they, they will bring everyone else up, but you can't, you can't force it. And that is what I, again, I respect about the Ranger regiment as a whole. You, they held the standard and, and you knew what you're going to get.

[B]

Yeah, they don't, they don't let up to it. And some guys say to a fault. I wouldn't say to a fault, but, but I have seen some good guys go that probably shouldn't have gone because the standards were. Even though they're super high strict. I'm like, man, that was a good guy. I hate to lose him. But it is the standard.

[A]

You know, let's talk about when, when you first went there, it was rrd, correct. What, which was Ranger Recon Detachment.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

What, what did you know about RRD and what made you want to go to rrd?

[B]

So I didn't know much about Them I just saw some dudes with, like, long hair and beards and stuff walking around. Always kind of wondered who those dudes were. And then I bumped into one of them in pldc actually. It was brand new there. He was a medic there, and he kind of told me a little bit about it, and so I was interested, but I still didn't know what they did. And so I didn't know until several years later I was deploying, doing the Omega trips.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As a line Ranger battalion guy, a lot of people think that I was in rrc, because that sounds like cool guy stuff, but I was in the line Ranger battalions when I was doing the omega stuff. And then I bumped into the RRC guys or RRD at the time they were doing the omega stuff, and to them, that was actually lame. And I was like, what? This is the coolest thing ever. I get to grow my beard for the first time and grow my hair out for the first time and wear civilian clothes. Working with the CIA, you know, I'm like, this is cool. And they're like, ah, this is lame. You know, I mean, like, we're doing other stuff. I'm like, really? Like, what do you guys do? They wouldn't tell me, but they were like, just go to selection, and then you can know more about it. And so the team sergeant gave me that challenge. Go to selection. And he said, and if you do, we'll bring you to team three. And I said, okay. So I went to selection within that year, and sure enough, they brought me to team three. So he literally brought me to his team. So it was cool.

[A]

Would. What'd you know about. They tell you anything about selection or. Because it's. It's within your own unit. So I feel like the. The chance of knowing a little bit more about selection is there, but. But maybe not. Is it.

[B]

There's not a lot known. All I knew that it was the. The rumors. Like, it's like Delta Force selection. Very similar. It's like a lot of walking with rucks in the mountains and land nav. And. And so that's really all I knew. But then I showed up, and I've never been to you guys selection, but I know guys that have been to both.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's very, very professionally run. Like, the cadre are, like, scripted. They're in suits and ties. They're looking very professional. They will not speak outside of the script, you know, and everything is very professional. You get up there, you do all the administrative tasks, PT tests, psychological evals. They're doing IQ tests, they got the psych up there. You're doing all the basic standards and then ultimately go into the stress portion of it where you're doing the land nav, you know, for like, you know, 18 to 20 something miles a day in the mountains of North Georgia, walking day in and day out and then ultimately ends with a long walk at the end, you know. And ours is different than your guys's. Ours was spread out into like two different segments. Like we walked during the day and I think it was like 12 miles or so. And then we're like, oh, that was it. That was a short walk today. And then about an hour later they're like, all right, get it back on different weight. You're gonna start for unknown distance, march and then you like 28 miles that night. So it's in the same 24 hour period, but it's split up into two sticks. Kind of like a little mind game in there.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know if that's better or worse. Don't stop me for an hour. Just, just, just let me keep going.

[B]

Yeah, especially if your feet are all swole up. You might as well just stay on them.

[A]

I, I love that's how you guys run that selection process because the units selection to some degree ruined me and in this aspect and it sounds like you guys run, you know, run the same type of selection. It was the most professional thing I've ever been to and I've been to at that point just like you, a lot of schools and then, and it just made me realize, or think you showed up to some schools and you'd think it's the first time they ever ran this school.

[B]

Yeah, I know, you know, what the

[A]

heck it was, it was so professional. It set the standard and make and made me look at every other school. I don't want to say down my nose at them. That's not what I want to say. But nothing.

[B]

I know what you mean.

[A]

Once you, once you truly see the standard and you know what the standard really is. Standard, right? Yeah. And it's. And anyone can meet it. Anyone like can meet that standard. Just either they, they haven't been exposed to it it or they're just not willing to do what it takes. But yeah, it's so professional. And I, yeah, I love, I love to hear, I love it so much when people like, yeah, I want, I want. I went to selection, but yeah, I didn't make it. I'm like, it's cool you went to selection.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just to experience that is, is, is something very few people get to experience and will expose you to true professionalism.

[B]

Yeah, I bet your guys's is even more so professional because it's been done longer and you have more people. There's much more robust system to set it up. Yeah, but yeah, they, they do their best, they do their best to mirror it and it's, it's a professional thing for sure.

[A]

I'll, I'll ask you this unfair question. We'll get back on onto the, the R D side of it, because this has always been my question, you know, to, to guys that, that do that. Maybe you didn't know, Maybe you did know. I've heard nothing but good things about your guys's selection and how hard it is and talk to guys who have done both. And so if RRD selection is just as hard as unit selection, why wouldn't you just go to unit selection?

[B]

That's a good question. So a lot of guys do ask that question because I actually, it's like

[A]

a jerk question like that. Almost an unfair question to ask. But I'll ask you. It's true.

[B]

It's. It's a valid question. Right, because there's so much more that can be done at your unit. Not only can you do the recce, the AFO stuff, but you can also do the assaulter stuff as well. Yeah, but for us, I think so. For me, the reason was I was in Ranger battalion during the height of the GWAT, right. So 99.9 of the time we're doing the same missions you guys were doing. So I'm like, if I go there, I'm going to be doing the same missions at the higher level. Yeah, you're going to get the hostage rescues and those ones that nobody hears about. Right. But those are a few and far between. So I'm like, I want to do the recce stuff. I just wanted to do something different than the door kicking. And so I went there. And that's one of the kind of the cool things about RRC is because you're a door kicker and then you go there, so the door kicker still let you play along. So when I was doing all that stuff, I was going out with your guys that night and I was going out with the rangers the next night and then going out with your guys the next night. So it was kind of the best of both worlds. I got to do the clandestine stuff, sneak around, do cool stuff stuff, get all in literally every school, like there was no school. We couldn't justify everything. Ties to reconnaissance. Anything ties to reconnaissance. You know what I mean? So we got to do any type of school out there. And then like I said, because another thing too, a lot of people don't. And I want to hit on this because I've never even spoken on this on podcasts and I didn't get to partake in it. But before my time in rrd, because these dudes are so good at sneaking around in the woods and remaining undetected. What the. The military was using them for is like hunter killer teams. So like, for example, Marcus Luttrell and those dudes, when they got hemmed up, they dropped in an RRD team with the rangers that were looking for the bodies, and they went and hunted down and killed those dudes. They literally tracked their foot tracks and blood trails. They train us how to track people, track blood trails and. And foot trails and stuff like that. And so. And that's one of the reasons to. To even try track down and hunt down even other elite warriors and kill them, you know, so that's kind of a cool thing. I never got to do that. But that's one of the things that they were trying to do.

[A]

It's. It's. It's unfair for the, for the listeners. But my bunk mate and selection was. Was one of those guys.

[B]

Oh, really? Who was it? Tell me later.

[A]

Yeah, I'll tell you his name at the. The garage over. Over cigar. So it's cool you brought up that story because. And I have a weird connection to it because he's nice. He was. He was. He was my buckmate. He had. He had the top bunk. Had the bottom bunk.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

That's cool. Yeah, he's. He was a really, really good dude. Spent. Spend the rest of his career at the unit doing great things.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

So what's. What is the charter of. Of rd? Why do they exist?

[B]

So from, from what I gather, it's essentially they were created back before my time to do reconnaissance for the Ranger Regiment, right back in the day, you know, after like Eagle Claw, like, there was some issues that were realized that Ranger Regiment, because they're only real players that were involved were you guys and Ranger Regiment and everybody else was not really in existence at that point in time. So I think the regiment realized they needed better reconnaissance after that and then some other things as well. But then JSOC needed more assets as well. So everybody started adding to the table. And I think they brought it in there and they brought it back kind of from the old Vietnam lurps Era Ranger like long range reconnaissance patrols. So they brought it in doing a lot of the tactical stuff. But then from what I gathered in the 90s, they were playing along with you guys a lot back then. And people were like, why are these dudes rocking these high and tights? You know, I mean like, like everybody else's relaxed grooming centers with the RD guys were like clean shaven and they stuck out like sore thumbs. So then they authorized them relax grooming standards and stuff like that. And then they started playing along more with you guys and stuff and then it just slowly morphed. But ultimately yeah, to provide intelligence gathering and reconnaissance full spectrum from tactical reconnaissance all the way to following. We can. Guys can break into houses, install stuff in their houses, like all that stuff to, to include even the COVID stuff for the full spectrum. They're capable of doing that to bright for the Ranger Regiment, but also for JSOC as well.

[A]

And you touched on it already. But I always thought something really cool about that, that RD did that. I don't think. And to. To a point, I don't think anyone else did it the way you guys did it, which is you would still do things for Ranger Regiment. I saw you guys doing, you know, recon and things that the regiment still wanted, but also jsoc, also the agency. Like you guys played with a lot of different players.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Seems like, you know, is, is that a good thing that you had a lot. Do you feel like you had a lot of different dads to answer to and so that kind of became difficult at times or that was the upside to it that you guys could plug and play across the, the, the spectrum.

[B]

It was a good side to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because we used to say in our. One of our old star majors, I just saw him a couple weeks ago, dude was a beast, man. I'll say his name. He's cool. He's retired now. Roy Young. This dude was a monster. He kept us in check. But yeah, he said it was the best kept secret in the army, even above like over you guys. Because nobody messed with us. Like we got messed with less than anybody because I remember probably 201011 time frame, they made everybody Seal Team 6, Delta Force, everybody shave and cut their beards overseas like it was just a knee jerk just to be jerks. Like we were the only ones that didn't have to because we were the only ones that were legitimately still doing full time recce stuff out and about so we didn't get messed with. And like when I worked for you guys Your guys understood how we work, so they were more lenient with us. They let us do our mission better than Rangers. Rangers didn't understand. They're like, wait, you're going to go out by yourself outside the wire? Like, yeah, I do it all the time. But you guys understood it. So we liked working for you guys better, you guys and the agency and stuff like that, because they understood us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we. Our boss was still the Ranger regiment. It was all the way back to RRC or my team Sergeant. So ultimately, nobody pulled strings on us. I mean, we were. We were like free agents out there, basically.

[A]

Yeah. I told you before the show, and I'll say it again here, not just having the first Ranger on the show, but from. From Rock. It's a weird unit that I think almost ev. Almost. But everyone knows about. There may be a few. We'll call it fans. General fans of special operations that they. They may not have even heard of it. But generally speaking, they know who you guys are, but I really think very few people know what you do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's. And I think that's awesome, actually. You know that you guys have flown under the radar. Yeah.

[B]

For.

[A]

For this long and have. Have that balance of. They know who we are. We're highly respected. They don't really know why, because they don't know everything we do. And even on this podcast, like, which we talked, like, you're not going to tell us, nor should you, like, everything you guys do. But I think it's a good thing because it leaves a little bit of imagination out there into the future Rangers that are out there and the Rangers that are. They're listening to the show now. They're like, yeah, I think I'll go do that.

[B]

But you got to leave some mystique, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But one of the things that I'd like to talk about. I don't know, like, I haven't talked about this on any of the podcasts, but one of the things that I think sets us apart, it's a super small unit. Right. So it's still got that immense amount of funding for just this little bit of dudes. Right. So we had tons of funding for that stuff as well. But the. The. The leadership that we had was exceptional. We had dudes that held us accountable. Like, for example, that dude Roy that I was telling you about. We would come in, like, after block leave, coming back from deployment or whatever, come back in off a leash, and he'd be like, hey, tomorrow morning, everybody's got to be in at 4. Like we did PT on our own. I did PT at my house before I left the house, then came to work at like nine. So it was like, okay, we got group pt, but it would be some, just an insane ball crusher event. Like he would have have bikes laid out, kayaks, canoes, and it's like an entire day event. One of the events he made us do was he made us take kayaks and go down the Flint river, but the water was only like 6 inches. So we were literally barefooted, no sunscreen, because I had no clue what I was even doing when I got to work that morning. It's always a surprise. 12 miles barefooted, dragging kayaks down the river. But that kind of stuff kept us tough, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Another thing that we did one time was it kept our fitness level always at premium because you were always getting checked by these dudes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So here we are out in Tucson, just finished a jump trip, finished up jumping and they were doing surveillance in Tucson. So we're out partying towards the end of the surveillance trip, drinking at the bar, throwing down, 4 o' clock in the morning. And my team sergeant is like, hey, we got to go take a PT test in like 30 minutes. Roy wants us downtown, so we go meet him. And we had some battalion recce guys from the rec, the Ranger battalion battalion recce with us, augmenting us. And so we go and took the PT test. All of us got three hundreds even drunk coming from the bar at four o' clock in the morning. But the battalion dudes were struggling to max their PT test. We're like, you want to be big boys, you gotta play like big boys.

[A]

Big boy rules.

[B]

You got to be able to perform at a moment's notice. So that's what they did. They held us that a standard. So that's one of the things that we did that we brought to the table. And we can get anywhere that nobody can get because the fitness level, they made us do 40 mile movements over rough terrain constantly with tactical rucks on. They pushed us to do competitions like the Cambrian Patrol where we go over there, not even training and beat every team physically. The fastest team on planet Earth. So. And that's 50 something miles with a ruck on.

[A]

You know, it's, it's, it's just a good, good old fashioned form of trust but verify. Yeah, I trust you guys are doing the right job, you know, and, and, and doing it. But I'm gonna call you in here and make you verify it every now and again.

[B]

Yeah. But if you don't, you're. You're. You're not doing it right.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. You have what, like, 18 deployments and in total? Yeah. Do you. Do you have a favorite deployment?

[B]

Let me think.

[A]

I have like, a. I don't have as many as you. I'm in the double digits. I have like a. I have like three, you know, that. That I really liked. Maybe I could. Maybe I could, you know, rank them. So. I know. Yeah, I know it's difficult, but you have a. And especially with your type of deployments, you could. They're. They're not all the same type offensive. So. So they're. So. They're different. So it makes it a little bit harder.

[B]

Believe it or not, my favorite deployment. This is going to sound weird to people out there probably, but was my least. I didn't even fire a shot on that deployment. But it was different for me because I was in Africa, but I was like, I've been to Afghanistan. Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq, Afghanistan. Then I go to Africa the first time, and I'm like, oh, dude, this is cool. It's different. Different. People never fired a shot. It was all, like, building, gathering intelligence basically type stuff over there in the Horn of Africa. But that was my favorite point. I was working with Seal Team 6 with the gold Squadron guys, which, you know, those guys are hit or miss. But I like the Gold Squadron guys I worked with. They were very professional. So it was a good trip, man. Even though we didn't shoot anything, we did a lot of stuff. We moved around. We talked to a lot of people. We were out and about, saw the country. It was just different.

[A]

You know, they were our counterparts. And so I got to spend time with. With Gold Squadron. Okay. Yeah, I like those guys. They were. They're always really, really good to us.

[B]

I like Red Squadron, too, but Blue, not so much.

[A]

He wouldn't be the first person I've heard that. And I'll. I'll. I'll ask. I'll ask these. These two questions because it doesn't necessarily matter. Cultures change, you know, people change. It does. It doesn't mean that this is the way it. It always is. But in a. In a time frame, for you, it could have been the way it was. Was there a squadron from us that you ever worked with? You're like, not my favorite guys to work for.

[B]

B Squadron. And you knew it was coming, dude. And there's a lot of Rangers there, dude.

[A]

I know.

[B]

What's up with that?

[A]

I don't. I could have answered it for you, and I don't, and I don't know why. So they've, they've changed a lot and they're, they're not the same old, same old, but, but back, but back then they, they had, they had earned that reputation and, and for, for a reason. They're performers but don't play well with others.

[B]

Yeah, man, that was like Blue Squadron, man. I did not like those dudes, but I worked great with Red Squadron and with Gold Squadron the time that I worked with him, and nothing but professional dudes. I won't say they were the most fit dudes, but they were professional. They were good dudes.

[A]

You know, was it similar. And your negative work experience with, with those two, whether it be Blue and, and B, just, just not extending you guys like the professional courtesies that you think that, that, that you deserved or, or earned was that it's just like

[B]

we're brothers in the fight, you know what I mean? Like, and everybody else treated us fairly, especially from your unit, man. Like, you guys always treated us fairly. Very professional. You know, the unit is the most professional unit and your old unit is the most professional unit in my hand, hands down, in my opinion. I love to hear Ranger Regiment, I believe, is like number two. And I wouldn't say, I say number two just because they're younger, you know, I mean, they're just not as matured. But those guys, man, like that SEAL Team six guys from Blue Squadron I dealt with, they just treated our guys bad. Not, not like dicks, but just bad. Like they were second class citizens. Whereas like the B Squadron guys, they were just dicks, you know, I mean, like, we're better than you guys and that's it. They didn't treat us bad. They just weren't nice to us, if that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah, no, that, that, that makes sense. And I, I do agree with you on the, on the Red Squadron side, because they, I did. I just like their personality, like their personal. A little bit more like cowboyish. Yeah, if you will. Not and not in a bad way.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Not and not in a bad way. You know, like, they, it kind of, they, they remind me of, of, of one of our sister squadrons that, that I kind of wanted to go to initially. No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I, I ended up in a squadron that I thought that was actually the best for me because I don't, I think if you'd, if you'd have left me to my own devices in a, in a, in a squadron that's a little more loose, I Need. I needed those standards.

[B]

You needed some rails, right?

[A]

Yeah, I needed some rails. And where ended up going? Had the best of both worlds. That would, they weren't, they weren't real strict. But. But. Oh, did they have rails?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, but did they have rails? And we all need those rails, to be honest with you. You know, we all need those rails at some point in time for sure.

[A]

The. You have a silver Star as well. Would had. You want to talk about that?

[B]

Yeah, we can talk. That was when I was in 3rd Ranger Battalion. I was a squad leader. So that one ended up we, we were up in Mosul in Iraq and we're doing a lot of hits up there. Well, the big army had this city cordoned off called Tal Afar, near the Syrian border over there. And they, they were getting smoked by snipers when they'd go in there. So they called us in there, just hit a bunch of targets and loosen it up. So we drove in strikers two and a half hours or so from missoul all the way over there. Got there, linked up with a big army, told them, hey, we're going in. Said, hey, keep the, keep your birds all the air traffic out. We're flying in and then we'll link up when we come out or we're going to go in, then we'll link up and we come back out. So we go in, hit this one target. We're supposed to hit three targets. We hit one target, killed a couple dudes, kind of non eventful move to the next target. And as we're staging and as at this time we were running our, our platoons, our Ranger platoons, kind of like you guys. Like at the time we had five man assault teams. So as a squad leader, as an E6 squad leader, I had like five dudes. But my, I had another. I think everybody on my team was an E5 below me except for my lowest guy, which was a tabbed E4. So a lot of people don't realize that, but in Ranger battalion, that's how we ran it. Like as a Ranger squad, like all my dudes are pretty much NCOs, at least at that point in time. Yeah, but at this point in time, I always wanted to be the elite assault squad because I was the senior squad leader in the platoon. But this was my turn to be the last assault squad leader. So I'm across the road doing cross coverage on the roof of the target building while the assault squads are stacked up over there. And so I see all this transpire, but the first dude Goes up to breach with a donker. Just, like, silent breach. And, like, as he's, like, getting ready to, like. I guess they. Oh, I. I forgot. A Kiowa flew over top. Okay, so a Kiowa flew over top, and we were like, dang, what the heck, man? We told him to keep the birds out. Well, then we hear over the radio from isr, like, hey, there's people on the roof waking up, moving around. So we're getting ready to breach the door, and he's got the donker raring it back. And then a dude opens the door. So the dude opens the door and then shuts it right in his face. So he calls compromise. Compromise. Compromise. Boots. The door, goes in, grenade drops right at the door, and, like, frags all these dudes. So then, long story short, we go in. I ended up getting in a gunfight with some dudes, Shot a couple dudes, kept clearing some different rooms. There was a grenade tossed into a room that I was at. I kicked it, turned. Dove from that. Yeah, Actually, I was a room I was getting ready to go in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A grenade literally rolls to the door, and I'm, like, looking down at it at my feet, feet, thinking like, I'm about to be an ugly son of a gun. And then I just booted that thing. I kicked it, and then I turned and I dove back to the right on top of my roommate, actually, who was just fragged out with, like, grenade shrapnel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dove on top of him because he had no body armor on. The doc was in there trying to work on him, Dove over his body. I took grenade shrapnel on my backside, and then after that, went back across the courtyard with my squad to clear another room, and machine gun fire came across, hit one of the guys in the knee. And then one of my squad leaders ended up treating him. But it was crazy, man. Grenades were being dropped from the roof. Our platoon, or our ground force commander, which was our xo, was on the roof pinned down. Our sniper team was on the roof pinned down. Dudes were shooting at us from machine guns all over the place, and then ended up my platoon leader and P Or platoon sergeant weren't on comms because they were pinned down, trying to deal with their. Their situations they were in. So I ended up just taking charge of the platoon as, like, the platoon leader. And I was like, hey, bring in medevac. We need to medevac these dudes. So I brought in the strikers, started loading up our dudes, and I started getting casualties out of there. And Then we pulled back off of the target and just leveled it because we were to that point, you know, this was in the 2005 where we had just realized when we should back away. You know what I mean? Like, we just don't fight through it always. Sometimes there's a time to back away. And this was one of those times I was like, we need to back away and drop this thing. So I ended up taking charge of that piece.

[A]

What a wild night.

[B]

Yeah, it was great.

[A]

What a wild target. Yeah, the would. Were you guys under nods? Were you probably white lighting?

[B]

No, we were not.

[A]

Yeah, gosh, the. I'm sure you could. And they were all like tile floors.

[B]

Loud as heck, dude.

[A]

So loud. And I can only imagine, like you can. And it's funny what, what you think you're hearing is at the end of the day, you've, you've probably never heard a grenade roll on a, on a tile floor.

[B]

Yeah. But you know what it sounds like.

[A]

But you know what it sounds like?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

What it sounds like, what you think it sounds like, even when you've never heard one before.

[B]

You know what it sounds like.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's so funny sometimes again, you think you know certain things. You're like, ah, that's, that's not that, that, that's not at all what I thought it'd be. And there's other things that are exactly what you thought they were going to

[B]

be, and it's that one that'. But you know, over my time, I got less and less scared of grenades. I mean, I don't know how many times I've been. I've been fragged by a handful of grenades. And like, nowadays, like, if, if there's one over there, I'm just gonna turn my backside to it, you know, I mean, it's those Russian ones. They're not too powerful. As long as you're not right on

[A]

them, they're not that powerful. They're older and they're, they're really sporadic in their frag pattern. They're, they're, they're really very ineffective grenades. It was one particular deployment that was on that was just for whatever reason, said they're all kind of different. It was just a frag heavy deployment. And basically what we, the realization we came to is like, hey, unless, you know that grenade is going to be effective where it's like a closed, a smaller quarter, you know, whether it's either the overpressure or, you know it's going to be effective, like, let's, let's reel back on the grenade throwing because what. Because like you said, it's not like the movies.

[B]

Even ours are not as effective as you would think.

[A]

Even ours aren't that effective. And what we were finding out is once we introduced a grenade into the fight, we'd get one back. They almost. For that particular deployment, they never introduced at first, but basically we were doing is we're. By introducing them, we were reminding them

[B]

that they had them.

[A]

Oh, hey, I've been carrying this thing for the last three years. And they're using them. I got one too. And, and we, and we get them and I'm. I got hit by grenade frag that. That deployment as well. But yeah, I don't think we killed anyone with a grenade. You just piss people off.

[B]

I've never killed anybody.

[A]

And you remind them that they have a grenade too, too.

[B]

Yeah, I've never killed anybody with a grenade. I was never a big a fan of grenades, you know.

[A]

And they're heavy.

[B]

Yeah, they're heavy. I carried them before, but. And they're scary. To think that. What happens if the pin pops out of my vest? I don't know. Things of that nature. I never carried a ton of them, but I've never. I don't think I've ever seen anybody legitimately killed by a grenade either. I've seen a lot of them thrown. I've seen a lot of dudes wounded, but nobody killed.

[A]

Yeah, it, it, it's funny sometimes even as a young guy, you, you can be right. But this is just not. Know why or just logical. I don't know if you remember the beginning of. Of the g. Wat where people were taping up their, their grenade pens.

[B]

Yep. Yep.

[A]

And, and they'd have like, you know, the, the quick release on it.

[B]

Take that out. We did all ours like that. Yeah.

[A]

I always thought as, as a new guy, I was like. I didn't think about it initially, but I, I, at some point I was like, you know what? I feel like if I ever needed a grenade, like I need a grenade now.

[B]

Yeah. Like real quick.

[A]

Right. I don't know if I. Or in the dark. I don't know if I wanna. Like, it already has a secondary safety and a pin and now we're taping it. I just, I'm, I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. And that years later, I ended up being right on that one. Like, this is nice. There's, there's, there's, there's no reason for it. And you do. There's, there's very few Times that although it happened that. That I had time, but like I said, when. When you need a grenade, you need it, you want it now.

[B]

But five wraps of tape is not fun at that point in time.

[A]

Yeah, no, they're good. I mean, a lot of things you do at night, and so to find that thing at night and maybe with gloves on, it's just we. We got better at war.

[B]

That's more challenges than you need.

[A]

Absolutely. And I'm. And again, like, these questions are a little bit difficult for you because you did. You did the line. The line company thing, and then you did the. The afo/intel recon work. So deployments varied with you, but you. You already alluded to it. You went back and forth and saw a lot of. Of both countries, Iraq and Afghanistan. Did you like operating in one more than the other?

[B]

I liked Afghanistan better, and I think that's probably because I just spent so much time there. I did, I think, four or five deployments to Iraq. And in Iraq, I was always worried about IEDs. I was like, dude, I don't want to get blown up by an id. Like, I used to pray, you know, like, please, God, just help me get to the. Such a vain prayer. But I would say, please, God, just help me get to the. Get to the objective so I can kill the enemy. Don't let him kill me with an ied. You know what I mean? So. But I liked Afghanistan, man. It just. It was a more. It was a more challenging place to work, to be honest, because the cultures there and then doing the stuff that I was doing, running our indage, like, we had indige that were out and about in the city doing their thing. So that was fun. I really enjoyed it. Like, having to understand their culture and then dig into it. I don't know, it just added another layer to it for me, I guess, mainly because I did a lot of the RRC stuff in Afghanistan. I never did any trips to Iraq and rrc.

[A]

How long did you end up spending in an RC at this point? And what'd you do next?

[B]

So I was there about five years, I think, roughly. And like I said, I left sooner than I wanted to because I was senior kind of going there. And I turned down master sergeant, but then I promoted a master sergeant. I wasn't in a team sergeant position, sat there for a while. So I ended up going back to the line Ranger Battalion, to 3rd Ranger Battalion to be a platoon sergeant for the mortar platoon. And the sergeant major, the regimental sergeant major asked me to do that. And it's not anything I wanted to do, but I was like, you know what, I guess this is what they want me to do. So I guess it's best for me. And he said I could come back anyway to the company. So I ended up being the platoon sergeant of 3rd Ranger Battalions Mortar platoon. And I didn't realize those guys, I mean they're infantry guys, but they're different than infantry, you know, because they do mortars. They're kind of like the black sheep of the military and they're very unrespected, but those dudes are very good. And like when you need somebody to be good, you need those dudes to be good. And they're, I mean, they're the best mortars, hands down on planet earth. I like, I'll put my hand on that all day long. But I learned a lot from those guys and it put me in a different position where, because you know how it is like in RRC and like in your unit, a lot of it's self serving when you're just the dude on the team. I get to go to this school, I get to go to that school, I get to do this training. But now I had to serve them. Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So yeah, it was a different thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, well, how can I make these dudes better? And they hated being mortars or they didn't hate being mortars, but they hated that they didn't get used as mortars that much.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I ended up being on BPS just standing there with a rifle. So I was like, okay, cross trained them in sniper stuff, sent a bunch of them to sniper school into Sodic. And then I got sniper rifles, our white size sniper rifles that no one used from the sniper platoon and let our guys use. It also sent them to battlefield interrogation courses so they could go in and be do bit TQ and free up a squad leader inside.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

So I even actually was this close to creating a free fall capable mortar element because your guys called me. Some dudes from there were like, hey, are your guys. They no joke, they asked me like, hey, are your mortars free fall qualified? I'm like, come on man. I'm like, no, they're not. But I'm like, that's a good idea. So I was actually, I was actually gonna. Because I was already free fall instructor, technically qualified at that point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, I could train these dudes up. I could train them as section leaders and all my squad leaders, these are E6s and above to, to do it and they could be like, you know, like the God squad, if you guys need them, or Seal Team 6 needs them. And it was that close to getting approved, but then got denied. So, yeah, did that for a bit, and then after my time there, ended up going out to the free fall school to finish my time before I retired.

[A]

I'll just let you know you. You're not wrong about saying those guys are the best in the world at mortars. We used them and only them in Syria. And those guys launched tens of thousands, thousands of mortars. And they. They put mortars on foreheads if you wanted them to. And over and over and over, they were so good again. And we could have chosen anyone to be our mortarman, but it wasn't even. Wasn't even a question. Ranger mortar teams, who we asked for to. We wanted, and they delivered.

[B]

Yeah, they're good. Those dudes are impressive. Just to watch them train, man. That's all they do when nobody else is doing anything. Those dudes are out there running those dudes, slamming them, throwing them up, set them up, leveling them up, and then simulate dropping shots. They're good at it.

[A]

And. And in a great turn of events, now they're working with us on. On the front lines of. Of Syria. They're the. They're the only ones getting combat out of Ranger at a Ranger battalion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the line Ranger units were just in Iraq and Erbil with really. With no mission. Like, they'd get on 22s and just escort, you know, people just to be on the bird in case it went down. Yeah, they didn't really have a mission. And it was the mortar platoon that was out there on the front lines getting it.

[B]

So thank God those guys finally got the glory that they deserve because those dudes are good, man.

[A]

Yeah. You said you're already free for all instructor. Did you get that certification through rrc?

[B]

Yeah, I did. So it was actually a deal that I brokered with our SAR Major because I volunteered to go back for. Or he asked me to go back.

[A]

Back.

[B]

Back to. Back on deployments back to Afghanistan. And I was newly married at the time, so I was like. Well, I was like, my wife's not gonna be happy about this. But I said, how about you send me to this school? It's called the Military Free Fall Instructor course out at Yuma, Arizona. And it get. I get 150 jumps in this course. That's all I wanted was all the jumps, you know? And he's like, all right, cool. So I came back from that Deployment sent me out there to the Free Fall instructor course, which doesn't fully certify you. You're certified Free Fall instructor, but you have to shadow the course before you're actually teach at Yuma. So I hadn't done that part, but I went through the instructor course, then went back and then. So then I had the qualifications where I could go back out to Yuma, and all I had to do was shadow and start being an instructor.

[A]

I do love the irony in your request, which is, hey, my wife's not going to be real happy about me being gone. So my one requirement is that you send me somewhere else.

[B]

Yeah, back before my head was in the right place. Oh my gosh, so true. But back before my head was in the right place. Yeah, my wife's gonna be pissed, so give me something else cool to do.

[A]

But you end up utilizing that. And you were a Free Fall instructor at some point, right?

[B]

Yeah, I went out to Yuma, out to the Free Fall school, and that was probably my first time really working with a bunch of SF dudes and Whiteside seals regularly out there. And I showed up out there and I guess because my background and my jump numbers, they wanted me to be in charge. So I got out there and there was a guy named Jeff Thompson, super solid dude who kind of took me under his wing. And he was a. He was a fifth group guy and was like, hey, I want you to be one of the detachment ncs. So he groomed me for that. So my very first class that I was running as the course director, I was being eval as. As to get my shadow rating or to get, you know, signed off for my shadow completing the course. So did that and then did that for about a year. And then I went to the jump Master course. I ran the jump Master course for a year.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then I went to the instructor course, which is the best place to be when you're teaching the new instructors. And I worked there for my last two and a half years that I was. Or about two years that I was there.

[A]

Some of the coolest videos that, that, that you get to see are the, are the Freefall, like school videos. Like they put them to rock music and you know, it's. It's like a progression of the class of them coming in, falling, you know, tumbling out of the plane. At the beginning of the. Of the video, bad, bad landings, you know, and then by the end of it, you know, they're. They're all crushing it. So I always enjoyed like our Free Fall Team. When a guy would come back from. From Yuma from his basic course and cut back with that video, it was always, it was always really cool. You guys, can you remember an incident that you guys had while you're out there? Because in the day it's free fall work is. Is dangerous enough or, or can be. But now, now you're asking relatively new guys to do it at a very increased learning curve and to do. Do way more dangerous things and just jump out of a plane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're asking them to do it with a hundred pounds on. You're asking to do it at night. You're asking them to do it at. With O2. Like it's just. It is not. It starts off as skydiving and then quickly becomes much more than military free fall becomes military free fall.

[B]

Yeah, dude, we were lucky. The whole time I was at Yuma, I don't recall any fatalities. We had some dudes get beat up a good bit.

[A]

It.

[B]

But it is absolutely dangerous. I've seen instructors in videos almost impact another instructor and freefall on their video, on their back video and another dude as they go by another student or an instructor. Lots of close calls. I didn't see any there. But afterwards I, I retired. After I retired, I was a contract free fall instructor for JSOC teaching the JSOC courses. I was also teaching marsoc. I helped stand up their program and then is doing the Navy EOD course. I was running the SF Archangel courses as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I saw some fatalities there. One of them. It was actually sad. It was. I can't remember which group it was. You would probably remember, but I. I was working the. I was working the Navy EOD course and I'd brought one of my other RRC buddies on, and he was teaching the Archangel course and it was one of his first ones. He's a really good instructor. And he goes, dude, these guys are not ready to be jumping night yet. And I said, I know. I said, all we are is advisors, bro. I said, you can't tell them what to do. All you can do is advise the team sergeant in the command. And so the team sergeant knew they weren't ready, but the command was like, nah, you're gonna jump night combat equipment. Even though my buddy was like, dudes are still tumbling slick. So they jumped out. The team sergeant was the last one. He tumbled, flipped on his back, deployed a parachute, engulfed himself. We ended up finding him in a backyard in Arizona city like 24 hours later. But yeah, one of my good buddies, Sam McAllister like he was in RRC, ended up going up to Virginia, was running the free fall program for those guys. He was actually trying to get me to go to D.C. and take over that free flow program before I retired. But me and him were jumping together, hanging out, had some dinner and the next night he was teaching the instructor course at Eloy for the closed course and died as an instructor. Opened, I think had something ended up open and low. Had a malfunction on a high performance canopy. Didn't cut it away quick enough and died.

[A]

You know, when, when you're in that, in that realm for a while from the outside looking in, you know, people think it's dangerous and of course has an aspect of, of danger to it, but it's, we end up finding out through all these fatality reports is almost every time it's operator error. Yeah. And that's, and that's the saddest part about it. And even though the guy who tumbled out, of course he induced it again, avoidable.

[B]

It wasn't the equipment's fault.

[A]

Right. It was, it was id'd and it should have, it should have never happened. You know, he got pushed to do something that, that he just wasn't ready to do. Ready for yet. And the, there's, there's two of the most dangerous times in, in jumping. One when you're a new guy because you just don't know enough. And so it might be operator error, you might do the wrong thing at the wrong time and it can be unforgiving. But a lot of accidents doesn't have to be fatalities. Just accidents can happen from new guys. And then there's a point where I feel like it gets really safe from a hundred jumps to make it up to 500 jumps. It gets really safe. And then I say it gets dangerous again because people stop respecting the, the

[B]

fear of it, the danger of it,

[A]

the danger of it. And they start doing things that other people wouldn't normally do, or they don't get the checks they need to, or they don't, they, they lose respect for it and it gets dangerous again.

[B]

Yeah, that's totally true. And I always had a healthy respect for it, man. Like I never, like I was one of those guys who downsized canopies way slower than everybody else. Like even when I was a civilian instructor, you know, teaching with your guys, the closed course and stuff like that too. Like I was only jumping like 124 square foot canopy, which is big compared to a lot of these other guys jumping like sub one hundreds and, and I was swoop that thing up at night with night vision too.

[A]

But right.

[B]

That's the thing. Like we would do it like you're jumping and you're ripping in these swoops during the daytime. Now the next thing is you got RRC guys and Delta Force operators that don't even have to do it, but they're swooping at night with night vision on high performance canopies. And I've seen dudes bust themselves doing that stuff. Stuff too.

[A]

Man. You want to talk about getting jacked up real quick? Mess up a swoop. Yeah. Whether it be high or low, like there is no room for. For error.

[B]

Yeah. There's not.

[A]

When you're coming in for, for a swoop and there's just no need for it. Let's be honest. It's. It's a little bit of just a look at me just come in flare.

[B]

It's just, it's just adrenaline, extra adrenaline. And for the guys out there that don't know that's what a swoop is, you can just fly this canopy in and just bring it in and land it nice and smooth. I don't even the small like most high performance ones. But when you want to rip it and make it dive, you're forcing it to fall out of the sky and then you're trying to plane it out for speed right at the bottom. And if you pull out a foot or two low, like you've got digital altimeter, audible altimeter, your eyeballs, it all has to match because if one thing doesn't match, you're out too low and you're dead or you're really, really hurt.

[A]

Yeah. And again like swooping it. Everyone's seen the video. You just may not know what it is like. And you're coming in at how. What do you think mile an hour you're coming in at on?

[B]

That depends. Like I've hit 67 miles per hour across the ground on my canopy before.

[A]

Yeah. And they're just 54. Anywhere from 40 to 60 something miles an hour and just skidding across the ground for 100ft.

[B]

My buddy Greg Windmiller, I think he set the world record like 107 miles per hour under a canopy. But he's a big dude jumping a really small canopy. So I mean they can exceed 100 miles per hour.

[A]

It's fast and that is. And you hit the nail on the head like it's adrenaline and this job is. Is tough because messes with your. Your sense of. It skews your sense of of danger to some degree because what used to be dangerous is now not dangerous. And so they're dangerous is fun. That's a, that's a weird thing to say but an adrenaline is addictive and when things are no longer giving you that adrenaline spike, then you have to take it to the next level to feel alive again. Otherwise everyday normal stuff, shoot house shooting by your buddy's head. You do it every day. It's boring. Just a regular jump out of an airplane. It's, it's boring going. You know, you get to go to these racing schools and go 150 miles an hour in and out of traffic. It becomes boring. Like it's, it's hard, it's hard to feel alive when, when combat is now. Like when it only a near death experience is the only thing that gets your blood going again.

[B]

Dude, you're exactly right. And I think that's what actually can bring a lot of problems for guys like us right when we get out. Because like yeah, everything we do is at the advanced level. Yeah, it's not skydiving. It's skydiving from 35000ft with you know, 150 to 200 pounds strapped to you with night vision at night time. You know, it's not blowing explosives during the daytime in a classroom environment. It's blowing it at night on the move with night vision on, you know, like everything's to the next level. You're right. And then surveillance, ripping it through, you know, towns and stuff, you know, jj, breaking it through the intersection as you're sliding through a red light, you know, and you've got to get out of jail free card for the cops.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But all that stuff, the entirety of the lifestyle sets you up for that higher and higher drone. You're right. Nothing, nothing is scary anymore. Nothing's dangerous anymore. And it kind of makes it to where for me personally now I, how do I deal with my family now that I'm fully retired? People are freaking out over stuff and like we're like whatever. Like that's not an ex, that's not a grenade about to blow up. You know what I mean? I'm not about to jump out of a plane with a brand new student, you know, it's nothing.

[A]

I've always explained it like this. It's the best way I could explain it. You know, being in a tier one units, essentially it's like, like it's like being a rock star at its like at their, at their peak. But you happen to be broke. Yeah, yeah. And we're rich, we're. We're military rich, but we're rock star poor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It is similar lifestyle, you know, everything's funded, everything's supported, everything's condoned. Like, we had private jets to fly around on and stuff like that too. But. Yeah, you're right, but you're broke. But there are the chicks still too, though, so you have to be careful of them because the chicks are still out there.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a crazy. It is. It's a crazy lifestyle. You are, You're. You're living a movie. Like, you are. You're living. You're living a movie. And. But like. But like any movie that ends and every ride ends, eventually that ride ends. And unlike rock stars who, to some degree at least to themselves, like, feel important forever or they can. They can go do something next, you just. You. You just kind of get the. The rug pulled from underneath your feet to being really important and deep down knowing, if your country needs me, I'll be there. To. To being no. 1.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's just be honest, like, when. When you leave, when you leave that behind compared to what the importance of. Of what you had. You're no one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How'd you deal with that?

[B]

You're right, man. It's hard to accept, to realize that you were part of. That's part of your life for all these years. And as soon as you hop off that train, it stayed at a thousand miles per hour, you're gone.

[A]

And they're replaceable.

[B]

Yeah. And you can go talk to those dudes and they'll still say hey to you, but they're not going to text you in their free time because they're too busy, you know, so that brings, I think, a lot of the baggage, the fruition of all of this, things that we've dealt with, the adrenaline rushes and not the killing of bad guys. Like, you went in the military knowing you're killing bad guys. I went in the military knowing I was going to kill bad guys. I don't have ptsd. Never had a bad dream, not once in my life. But I think the operator syndrome comes from that letdown of all that adrenaline and then being on that pinnacle, like being supported by all these different people, it's hard to deal with. And I think when you get out and then you don't have a mission. I don't have a mission anymore. Like, I was training tier one operators, but then I'm not doing it. You know what I mean?

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's it was some fulfillment, but not complete fulfillment. And for me, I was like, I needed a mission. I didn't know that I needed a mission still. Because we're soldiers. You were created to be a soldier. I was created to be a soldier. God created us to be warriors. And I didn't realize that until I finally found the Bible. And then, you know, and that was forcing my wife, she's like, hey, you need to get in the Bible. And now I'm a different type of warrior. And I think that's what we all need. We have to transition to that. And the guys that don't realize that God's calling them for a higher purpose, for a higher war, they struggle. But for like, guys like you and I who figure out that we have a different calling. And God used this realm to train us in the discipline needed to follow him as his soldiers. And once we can transition to that, it makes things good, you know, but if we don't, we're going to still be have those demons, those 22 a day, cracking their heads off. I've been there, like, and I'll be honest, I've had a Glock to my head, snatching the, the slack out of the trigger so many times. So lucky that thing didn't go off. I've pointed it at my wife before because I couldn't handle the situations in my own home. I'm like, how could I deal with all this overseas? But now I can't even handle my own home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And I needed that Bible right there to fix it.

[A]

I'm going to put it in slightly different terms. You. You need a purpose. And, and yes, that book right there does, does give you purpose. But I think, think at the end of the day, what we're looking for more is. And these two words can be, can be interchanged. And I use the word purpose too, when talking about life. But, but when I insert that book right there, I actually think more of and use the words that it uses. Peace. We're looking for peace. There's no peace in our life. There's. There's a constant struggle, whether it be things aren't good at home, you know, whether it be I have no peace in my life because this is unfinished. It was finished before I wanted it to. Or you never want it to end, so it always finishes kind of before you wanted it to. And so you have no peace in your life. And there's only, there's only one place to truly find peace in your life. And I said, and answer the Call and fulfill the reason why he put you on this earth. And it comes from that book right there. I'm real glad you pointed that out.

[B]

Yeah, man, it's the, that's what saved my soul. Saved my, my flesh too, man. Well, I was in a bad spot.

[A]

We're wondering why we can't, we can't get to the, to the bottom of this. Why can't we figure out that we're losing 22 guys a day? Well, maybe, maybe we're putting the, the wrong medicine to the sickness.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah, maybe, maybe the medicine sitting, sitting right there in a leather bound book form. And if, if nothing, it's a bad way to put it because it, I shouldn't do. Like, hey, if nothing else works, try this. And in fact try this first for sure. But if you've tried everything else. Making an option.

[B]

It was my last option. It was my last choice, you know, I mean, like, here's the thing. There's nobody, like you asked the dudes that knew me for 20 something years in the military if I would be preaching God's word right now. They're like, come on now. Not that dude. Never would I ever have thought it, but it changed my life, man. That book is powerful and it can heal you, man.

[A]

I love to hear it. What, what are you doing now?

[B]

So now I just do side consulting stuff here and there. I consult for a company called Titan Performance, a supplement company. Friends become friends with the owner of the company. Such a real really good dude. He just wants to help people and do a lot of good stuff for the community. He just wants to make men real men like we talked about. He's all about raising up godly men and stuff of that nature. But yeah, trying to help promote his supplements and get them off the, off the ground. He's gotten. He used to sell peptides and sarms and stuff of that nature where the FDA shut that all down. So it's kind of like now to the natural supplements. So, okay, yeah, do a little bit of that. Do the podcast, do the ministry stuff. I study the Bible relentlessly. Like I put the dedication of being an operator, an elite operator into studying God's word and making that my foundation. So that's my most important thing. And then spending time with my family and you know, just loving them like all the time that I was away from. I'm trying to pour back into them now, you know.

[A]

Yeah, that's which I, I love that that's how you live in your life. That's. That's that's why we're called the Tier One Podcast. It has. It has nothing really to. To do with. With me being the Delta Force. It has to do with the. The community that. That we're. That we're trying to. We're trying to foster, you know, be. Be a tier one dad, be a tier one husband, be a tier one Christian, be a tier one employee, be a tier one employer, be a tier one man, you know, but it goes back to, well, how do you be a tier one man?

[B]

That's the only way. You can't figure it out without that book. Just can't do it. I promise you, for those that are out there, I'm just telling you, you can't figure it out without that book. That has to be the foundation. Everything else will follow.

[A]

I love it. One last question before I let you go. I'm gonna put you right on the spot. Tell me a funny story.

[B]

Funny story. Okay. So here I am in Afghanistan on the Omega, one of the Omega trips, and working with Seal Team 6 dudes all by myself for the very first time ever. Luckily, we're about halfway through the deployment, and I had seen an event like this happen to one of my guys, so, you know, I expected it to happen. But anyway, we're in this. This house, clearing this house, and you know how it is. Sometimes these compounds, there's animals and stuff in there. There's cows that are tethered. Well, there's a cow that's tethered to the ground. It's running circles, running. So you probably know where this is about to go. It's cows running circles, running circles. All of a sudden, the cow comes around this way, and I feel something against my leg right here. And then it goes in front of me, and then it comes around. I feel something against this side of my leg, and I'm like, oh, my God, it has done. A hog tied me with its tether, and so I. I can't step now, and so I fall all the way onto the ground. Luckily, I had a knife in my chest, and I reached out and cut that rope. But now there's a free cow running around inside the compound. But it was the most embarrassing thing ever, because here I am, line Ranger battalion Dude working with Seal Team 6 for the first time ever. Thank God they already knew I was better than this. But then I got hog tied by and fell down in the middle of the target.

[A]

What that is now a. There's a lot of reasons to carry a knife, but there at that one in Case a cow hog ties you on the objective and you got to get out. But that is the other just funny part. Now we got a loose cow.

[B]

Have you ever. Have you ever seen that happen before? No.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I've seen it happen twice to another dude and then to me.

[A]

All right, so. All right, so I was gonna tell you the story out here because I don't always like telling stories because you're the guest, but. But we're having a conversation. Here we go. I was in SF and this, this compound gets identified as a, as an all enemy compound. They just, they just killed a, a Green Beret. They followed him back and they're like cleared hot. Just do whatever you want to do. It was my ODA and another oda and we just led with grenades like everywhere we went because that's. We were told it was kill it all. Yeah, kill it all. It's. We've been watching it. Everyone in there's everyone. Everyone in there is enemy. And so we pick up a blood trail. And it was a compound was like in three different compounds, like kind of connected, but all within the. The same, the same wall. And one of the guys like, hey, I got a blood trail over here. And so we're following this blood trail and following this blood trail and kind of where you can't see the forest through the trees. Yeah, someone's. Someone was in the doorway to this compound and looks up and he sees this guy and Kit essentially following this cow around who's bleeding.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

One of the, one of the frag pieces had flown out of the doorway, hit the cow. Now the cow's bleeding everywhere. And he's following this blood trail, but he's like 10ft behind this guy thinking that he's gonna find out where this blood trail goes. It was the cow.

[B]

Oh my gosh dang, that is hilarious. Been the crazy stuff that happens during missions overseas.

[A]

Man, when you talk about crazy stories like, I loved Afghanistan. Those are only Afghan. You don't get those crazy stories. So you get different stories in Iraq, but you, you add large random animals at any point, INS compound, and you're gonna get, you're gonna get some funny stories.

[B]

I've seen a ranger that's. That was probably 250 pounds, Big Jack dude being drugged by his leg by a tether of a cow that took off and then the tether went and it smacked and wrapped and girt his head. Took him straight to his back. And I had to run over there and free him.

[A]

They don't. Those are things. They don't. They don't train you for.

[B]

No, they don't.

[A]

There's. They don't. They don't do that for you in Ranger school. There's only one way to learn that. That's on the job. Yeah. Real life, man. Mike, I can't. I can't thank you enough for coming on the show. I really enjoyed it. Thank you, brother.

[B]

Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I enjoyed it.

[A]

Yes, sir.