Rusty Whitt Special Forces and UF Strength Coach | Tier1 Podcast

Summary

Tier1 Podcast: “Rusty Whitt – Special Forces and UF Strength Coach”
Host: Brent Tucker
Guest: Rusty Whitt
Date: August 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and in-depth conversation, host Brent Tucker sits down with Rusty Whitt, a former Green Beret and the current strength and conditioning coach for the University of Florida’s (UF) football program. They trace Rusty’s unique trajectory from small-town Texas, through the rigors of Special Forces selection and Iraq deployment, to the highest levels of collegiate coaching. The discussion encapsulates themes of perseverance, leadership under adversity, team culture, and the transfer of military lessons to elite athletics.

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Rusty Whitt’s Early Life & Athletic Foundations

• [02:41] Rusty details growing up in Azle, Texas, a small town near Fort Worth, emphasizing an active childhood: “Baseball, bass fishing, a bit of a wild streak—motorcycles, quad racing. My brother was into BMX, so there was always something going on.”
• Books as inspiration: His mother, a librarian, introduced him to “The Green Berets” by Robin Moore, planting early Special Forces ambitions.
• [03:24] Rusty recalls his underdog entry into college football, walking on at Abilene Christian University:

  “I was a 6-foot, 178 pounds, Bambi on ice with big feet…my dad tells me, ‘You got one semester I’ll pay for and then you’re on your own—Marines, Army, you pick.’”
  (reflecting urgency and hard-earned progression)

• Early influences from first strength coach Cliff Felkins at Abilene Christian pivot Rusty from law enforcement to training, launching his passion for strength and conditioning.

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Coaching Path, Injury, and Turning Point

• [06:47–10:49] Rusty charts his career progression through graduate assistantships and internships, notably the Olympic Training Center:

  “I learned more from those athletes than they learned from me.”

• Landed first head coaching job at Sam Houston State, working with future NFL QB Josh McCown, but suffers a catastrophic knee injury in a training challenge, ultimately a pivotal event:

  “I caught it like a starfish…broke my femoral head, tore my meniscus and my ACL. That’s why I teach power clean the way I teach it now.” [10:49]

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9/11 and Decision to Join the Army

• [12:30] Vivid memories of coaching the morning of September 11, 2001:

  “Turn on TV, watching the tower collapse like a stack of ashes…my grandmother calls and says, ‘This is your Pearl Harbor.’”

• Rusty rehabs his knee for a year, leaves a flourishing coaching career, and enlists in the Army at 31, driven by service:

  “The compulsion, the impulse—like so many others—was overwhelming.” [12:30]

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The Road to Special Forces

• Faces age barriers in selection (SFX-ray cutoff of 28), pivots to Ranger contract, but is spotted at Airborne School and selected directly for the Special Forces Qualification Course:

  “The first Green Beret I ever saw—Master Sergeant Karlowitz—calls out my name and says, ‘You’re going to the Q course.’” [15:47]

• Describes the infamous Airborne “blood wings” tradition, and SF hazing rituals:

  “…left a little appliqué on the back, pin it to your chest and punch you. We’d be bleeding through our BDU’s, about a coffee cup size blood stain.” [18:25]

Hazing, Endurance, and Shared Misery

• Brent and Rusty discuss “the gig pit”—a filthy punishment pit—reflecting on the fine line between productive hazing and unnecessary risk and camaraderie forged through adversity.

  “Great times are forged through shared misery.” [22:43] “Quitting is contagious, but so is sticking it out.” [26:14]

• [23:54] SOPC (Selection Prep): 278 candidates, extreme smoke sessions, over 100 quit the first night. Rusty, as older candidate, called out for roll.

• The deliberate psychological pressure of prep and selection:

  “They’d start talking up the 82nd, trying to get guys to quit. They try everything to get you to quit.” [24:00]

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The Special Forces Qualification Course (Q Course)

Timeline and Challenges

• Rigorous, multi-phased course involving leadership, tactical proficiency, land navigation, and small unit tactics:

  “By the time you hit phase two, you have a bunch of men who clearly don’t want to quit…but it's easy to not quit when you’re fresh; it’s a lot harder after six months of getting beat down.” [29:32]

• Rusty is peer-ranked last after an early mistake, but rebounds through teamwork and “carrying heavy stuff”—re-emphasizing the leadership principle:

  “Phase two really weeds those guys out…you can’t have 12 high performers that don’t get along.” [32:05] “You’ve got to wash out differences and operate correctly, not let that be a distraction.” [33:06]

Learning Leadership and Teamwork

• Rusty: “I was rushed, adrenaline-filled on target—had to learn to process and be more detail-oriented. Being a caveman, strong, isn’t enough, you gotta be a thinker.” [35:36]

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MOS Assignment & Echo School

• Assigned 18E (Communications Sergeant), not his first choice, but adapted:

  “Combo school was difficult—very technical…and they’d issue us equipment with stuff they knew was wrong with it, just to see if you could catch it.” [36:56]

• Max Gain (Max Pain) exercise, described as the heaviest ruck he ever carried:

  “You get into small teams, carrying 150 pounds, not sleeping. A lot of stress.” [40:15]

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Robin Sage & Real-World Problem Solving

• The famed unconventional warfare field exercise, Robin Sage:

  “It was just a continuation of what to expect when you get deployed…within my first few hours I nearly went hypothermic.” [43:23]

  • Memorable moment: Dealing with Pineland “cultural issues” and forced role-play like marrying the chief’s daughter, learning adaptability:

    “They had to force a situation on you. There is one attribute everyone must have: problem solving.” [46:24]

• Key insight:

  “The longer I was in SF, the more I realized Robin Sage was absolutely right. Your partner force overseas isn’t gonna be motivated—you gotta figure out how to get men to do what you need them to do and respect you.” [47:43]

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Transition from SF to Coaching: Lessons, Sacrifice, Humility

• [61:22] Posting to 10th Group, initial disappointment in being put on commo hold, eventually made senior Echo as a new guy, learning humility:

  “Just don’t ask questions, do your job. Being at 34, you think you’re hot shit, but it was a further exercise in humility.” [64:26]

• Vivid recollection of deploying to Diyala Province, Iraq, and the intensity of first contact:

  “Welcome to the show…we start getting shot at, and that’s the first time I’ve seen a human get pulverized by .50 cal machine guns. That was within my first five hours in Iraq.” [73:19]

• Rusty explains his eventual decision to leave the Army:

  “I wasn’t planning to make SF my career…I wanted to get back to coaching.” “It set me back 10 years in my coaching profession, but I don’t regret it at all.” [77:35]

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Coaching Trajectory Post-Military & Building Culture

• Re-entered D1 coaching via old networks rather than applications; acknowledges the profession is “relationship-driven.” [79:30]
• Series of positions, rebuilding programs at Rice, UL Lafayette, Texas Tech, Army-West Point, Troy, Tulane, and ultimately to University of Florida.

  “Catching lightning in a bottle—getting with the head coach that succeeds and keeps moving up—it’s a tough gig.” [86:41]

On Leadership, Culture, and UF’s Winning Expectations

• Deep dive into the expectations and intensity at UF:

  “I want to feel…if we’re getting beat up, it’s my fault. I embrace that responsibility. We’re gonna play the biggest, most powerful football teams in the world.” [95:52]

• Attention to detail and team culture:

  “Culture is not ‘win the day’—it’s ‘win the next minute.’ You can lose it in five minutes if you let one detail slide.” [91:26] “No headphones in the building. You’ve got to interact. The smallest details, everything…to get 120 players to buy in, it’s day-by-day, minute-by-minute.” [93:15]

• On developing young men:

  “It’s the challenge of a lifetime—getting 54 new guys and the rest don’t know who you are…you’ve got to sell your program. Goes all the way back to what we learned in Selection: how do you motivate men in a way where they want to follow you?” [98:24]

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Most Memorable & Entertaining Moments

On Shared Hardship and Camaraderie

• [53:56] “Fall down a flight of stairs and land on his feet and go, ‘Hey, okay, what we got?’”—Describing an indestructible teammate, highlighting the breed of high performers SF attracts.
• [55:58] Karaoke stress release in language school, “Had to sing a song by a female—never laughed so hard in my life.” The tightest bonds formed after the hardest trials.

SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) School

• “SERE was the one school that absolutely met my expectations. You think you know who you are, but SERE shows you who you REALLY are.” [57:55]
• Crushing story of being sprayed down in winter and knocked out during resistance training:

  “He waves his finger at me, rears back and palm drives me right in the jawbone. Gave me a concussion. I had gravel in my mouth—trying to remember how to navigate with a concussion, it was amazing.” [59:51]

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Notable Quotes & Takeaways

On Leadership & Adversity:

• “Quitting is contagious. But so is staying—so is being strong. That’s contagious too.” – Brent [26:14]
• “You never really prove yourself. You only can exhibit it on a daily basis. Nobody owns it.” – Rusty [65:18]
• “Culture is minute-to-minute, not win-the-day. The details you enforce, the little things, are everything.” – Rusty [91:26]

On Career & Purpose:

• “I wasn’t planning on making SF my career…I started seeing the writing on the wall, I'm 37, 38, my body’s starting to feel it. It’s a young man’s game.” – Rusty [76:36]
• “Hard work at a good program eventually pays off—but people have no idea what it took to get there. They see ‘the guy at Florida’ and assume it was easy.” – Brent [86:11]

On SF/Q Course:

• “Being caveman strong isn’t enough, you gotta be a thinker at this level.” – Rusty [35:59]
• “The Army will teach you everything, but if it’s your first time hearing it, how fast can you pick it up and apply it?” – Brent [34:36]

On His Approach at UF:

• “If our O-line is getting thrown out of the club, it’s my fault. I embrace that responsibility.” – Rusty [95:52]
• “Attention to detail, urgency, preparedness, and being physically fit to do your job.” – Rusty [97:41]

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Entertaining Final Stories

• [103:33] Rusty shares blowing out ceiling tiles with a medicine ball on his first day at University of Texas, greeted with, “Not a great first day, Russ.” His career always started—and continued—with a laugh.
• [108:05] Enduring freezing nights in North Carolina during Max Gain, keeping morale up with a teammate’s impromptu “Michael Jackson Thriller” dance, underscoring the critical morale-boosting role of humor and camaraderie.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:24 – Early Athletics & Parental Influence
• 10:49 – Turning Point: Injury and Career Pivot
• 12:30 – 9/11 & Decision to Serve
• 15:47 – SF Selection & Airborne “Blood Wings”
• 22:43 – “Gig Pit,” Hazing, Enduring SF Selection
• 32:05 – Peer Ranking and Team Lessons
• 40:15 – 18E Echo School & Max Gain
• 43:23 – Robin Sage & Cultural Problem-Solving
• 61:22 – Joining 10th Group & Lesson in Humility
• 73:19 – First Combat Experience in Iraq
• 76:36 – Transitioning from SF to Coaching
• 91:26 – Elite Team Culture and Attention to Detail
• 95:52 – Mindset at University of Florida
• 103:33 – Humbling, Funny First Day at Texas

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Final Thoughts

This episode showcases how the principles of elite military training—urgency, attention to detail, problem-solving, and team leadership—are not only essential for the battlefield, but fundamental to the highest levels of collegiate athletics and any mission-driven organization. Rusty Whitt’s story is a testament to perseverance, humility, and leading from the front—on the field, in the gym, or in combat.

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“Same mindset, different mission.” – Rusty Whitt [89:30]

Transcript

[A]

We go. Welcome back to the Tier One podcast. I'm your host, Brent Tucker, owner of frcc. That's first responder coffee, cigar and cask company. We do just that. Coffee, cigars and bourbon. We do it better than anyone else. Go to FRCC shop and use promo code tier one to get 15% off the world's best coffee, cigars and bourbon.

[B]

And I'm Drew Tucker, flavor injector of [e-mail]. guys, I invite you to join our Patreon. It's brought to you by Cobalt Kinetics. When you join our Patreon, you join a community of tier one men. So join the network today. There's behind the scenes exclusive content. There's a weapons forum, there's a fitness forum for your fitness journey. And and in that weapons forum is a weapons expert ready to answer all of your weapons questions. Join the Patreon today. You'll be glad you did.

[A]

And as always, this episode is brought to you by Human Performance TRT. Go to hp-trt.com and use promo code TIER1 to get 20% off all your testosterone. And Peptide needs the don't wait any longer to get in the best shape of your life. Let's do it, Drew. Welcome to the Tier one podcast. This is amazing.

[B]

Dude, check this out.

[A]

And with us today we have former Green beret and current strength and conditioning coach for the University of Florida, Rusty Witt. Welcome to the show, brother.

[B]

Thank you. Awesome. It's, it's a pleasure being here. Huge privilege. Thank you.

[A]

Two of my favorite things, Gator football and special forces. Living, living the dream right now.

[B]

I am. Life's been good, so let's keep it rolling.

[A]

I love to hear it. Well, speaking of life, let's, let's, let's rewind a little bit and see how all this came about. Where you from and how did all this start?

[B]

Okay, so. Winding road. So I grew up in a small town outside of Fort Worth called Azle, Texas. 4 A high school which was kind of a mid sized back then, you know, grew up with my mom and dad, encouraged me to be, you know, playing baseball, bass fishing, very active outside. My brother was in the BMX biking, he was kind of fearless in that regard. Got into motorcycles, quad racing, all that. So I had a little bit of a adventuresome spirit. Yeah, my mother was a librarian when I was in seventh grade. She brings home a book called the Green Berets by Robin Moore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it didn't have enough pictures in it because I was pouring through, you know, And I was enamored by that. Well, tucked that away for a while, you know. And then high school football, ran track. And then I was a 6 foot 278 pounds, skinny, you know, Bambi on ice with big feet and just was a late bloomer, you know, And I didn't have anybody recruit me, so. Growing up in a church of Christ, my mother encouraged me to walk on Abilene Christian University, it's a Church of Christ College, Abilene, Texas. So I walked on and my dad was like, you got one semester. My dad never graduated high school. He went to the 101st. He went to the Army 101st Airborne. You know, he learned his, his craft in, in the army as a, as a helicopter electrician.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Aerospace electrician. So his value of college was different than my mother. She had a, a master's in library science, whatever. But she wanted me to go to college. I want to play college football. So my dad says, you got one semester I'll pay for, and then you're on your own, you know, so Marines, army, you pick, you know, What a deal. Yeah. So I was like, you know, I had a little bit of urgency about me, so I walked on. And back then, the first day was helmet. You know, we had three days and you had a two, two day practices and a night walk through special teams practice. So the first day was helmet T shirt, shorts. Second day was helmet shoulder pads, shorts. Third day was full pads. And I was like the water boy. Just, just hitting everything, you know, hey, it's a stud. And I was just going full speed. My first day in pads, had a really good scrimmage and I got a half scholarship in a meal ticket. And then I was off to the races. That I got my confidence that we were talking about earlier.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then proceeded to get a full scholarship. And I played a whole lot, sustained some concussions because my tackling technique wasn't leveling my head too much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But loved it. Made some awesome friends and spent five years in Abilene and then got a degree in criminal justice. But during that time, it was a very tumultuous time in society when I'm getting a degree in criminal justice. You had the Rodney King incident, you had the Waco Branch Davidian thing go down. You had to. The O.J. simpson thing was kicking off, so law enforcement was really under a lot of scrutiny. And about that time, I had a strength conditioning coach show up. I never had had one before, before my last year named Cliff. Falcons shout out to Cliff. He's still the track and field throwers coach at Texas Tech. And he changed my whole life. Just showed me how to do things right in the weight room, how to eat right. And it changed my life. You know, my trajectory turned, started going back to school, starting over again to work on kinesiology, you know, sports science.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And in the meantime I'm working at a Gold's gym. Being around all that kind of culture and I really got, got snake bit into that. You know, just help coaching, personal training. And then I got my very first graduate assistant job at a place called Midwestern State, a division to Wichita Falls, Texas. There's an Air Force base there with, you know, trainers flying over your head all day long in Wichita Falls. And I got my huge, my huge step up was University of Texas. I realized I wanted to go to bigger, better facilities, a bigger environment. And I made a canvassed every college you can dream of. Arkansas, ou, Nebraska, University of Texas, Houston. You name the college. I called University of Tennessee. And I called and this is before cell phones. I'm leaving answering machine messages for all these guys. And one man called me back and it was Rock Gullickson who was the headstream coach, University of Texas. Rock is one of my, my best friends, still mentor to me. We talk on the daily and Rock said, if you can get in graduate school at Texas, I will, will consider hiring you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I had to retake, retake the gre, took it, got, got a good enough score to get admitted in the University of Texas. He goes, come on down and we'll interview you. So I drove down there, met him and Evan Marcus, who's a still a good friend of mine, Ed Nordenschild, who's a retired strength coach angel spas off, who was a headstring coach for Romanian Olympic team at one point. So I met all these guys and it was, it was awesome. And I was so excited when Rock offered me a job. So that was a big springboard from my career. I was there for a little over a year and then I got a internship at the Olympic training center in Colorado Springs. To fin like a grad school, it was basically my thesis was to go work there for about six months. Turned in around eight months. And as soon as I walked in the door, I was headstring coach for USA Volleyball, Greco Roman wrestling, badminton, taekwondo, had this strange array of athletes, Paralympic athletes, you know, and it was just overwhelming the amount of urgency, awareness, professionalism these athletes had. And I learned more from them than they learned from, from me. You know, yeah. So it further fueled my fire. I got a job at William and Mary under John Sauer, who's still coaching. And then I went from there to Louisville. University of Louisville with Rock. Hired me back where I could. Been let go at Texas, and then he went to Louisville and hired me there again. And when I was at Louisville, I was interviewed for a job at Sam Houston State to be the head guy, and got my very first head job at Sam Houston State in 1999. And I'm there for a couple of years. We bring in a. This is a kind of a momentous occasion in my life. We bring in a transfer quarterback from SMU named Josh McCown. Exceptional athlete, went on to play like 18 years in the NFL. But Josh is power cleaning 325. He worked out at the latter part of the day because he had a lawn mowing job. And I'm working out with him. Josh cleans 325 for a triple. And he goes, I bet you can't hit that old man. So. So I hit it for one. I should have stopped.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Went for two, barely got it. Went for three. And I caught it like a. Like a starfish. And my rot knee buckled and I broke my femoral head, tore meniscus and tore my acl. And that's why I teach the power cleaning way I teach it now. Yeah, you know, it was a big. It was a big, big learning experience for me. And so this. This is around July 15th, right. Of 01.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I go, my knee is so swollen. They will. They say, hey, we're going to let your knee go. Calm down before we work on it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So August 15th, about a month later, I go in for a reconstruction surgery. Bone putty repair. The meniscus do all this work. The meniscus repair was the longest part to heal. You know, ACL reconstruction, all that. And so a month later, I'm coaching in a lockout brace on a Tuesday morning, September 11th, and I'm coaching my groups. I go home to change. I gotta teach two classes in the kinesiology department. I go home to shower and change, turn on tv, and I'm watching a tower collapse like a stack of ashes. You know, my grand. And my grandmother called me, and she was around 22 years of age when Pearl harbor occurred. And she calls me Joyce. Her name's Joyce Miller. She called me and she goes, hey, Rusty, you're watching this. And I was like, yeah, what. What's going on? This is your Pearl Harbor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, unlike, you know, like so many others. You just felt this huge impulse, compulsion, whatever it was. So I rehabbed, Rehabilitated my leg for about a year. I took about a year to get it right and then got some financial affairs in order. My. Then my first wife, we were, you know, dating and I was like, would you be still interested if I were to make this drastic career decision? But I had a good job. I was, yeah. Head strength coach at Sam Houston State. We just had. We're having success. My trajectory was going this way and, and I just walked across the street. February of 03, before the invasion of Iraq, I walked across the street into A. I'm 31 years old. I walk into the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. And I'd done some research. My eyesight was not going to allow me to be a pilot. And I thought about the Navy. But I never grew up around C to C or anything. I was like, my swimming would take a lot of work. So, yeah, had that, had that Robin Moore book, you know, my Green Beret book. So I walked in and I was like, hey, I want to join the Army. I want to go to Special Forces. He goes, how old are you? I said, 31. He goes, well, the X ray cutoff is 28.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah. So there was a, A poster on the wall and you've probably seen the picture of a Ranger in a. In water up to his chest, holding his M16 and he has a Ranger tab on his hat.

[A]

Yep, yep.

[B]

And I said, well, I want to do that. And he goes, we can make that work. So sign my life away. And Infantry 11 Bravo, you're going to do this. You're going to get an option 40 to go to Rangers, Ranger, Ranger School. It was RIP back then.

[A]

RIP. Okay, you're going right to battalion.

[B]

Yeah. So once you graduate airborne school, you basically go right into RIP at the. So I'm like, okay, four year deal. Four year contract. That's an important, that's an important little notation there. The, the four year contract that I sign. Go to Airborne school. And then my sergeant Airborne was like, dude, you're awful old. Like, you're not the same age. What are you doing? And he knew, he knew. The SF recruiter at Benning was a guy named Master Sergeant Karlowitz.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And all my buddies I made in basic and Airborne were all X rays.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So before our very last jump, I'm sitting back to back with this guy. It was a night equipment jump and we had, you know, the two by four simulated rifle and all the junk on us. And I'm leaning there and it's getting dark. And then the first green beret I ever saw in my life comes walking in the hangar and it was Master Sergeant Karlow. It's like 6 foot 5, 240. An action figure comes walking in. He's like, I'm looking for wit Russell T9307. And I was like. And he goes, your orders got changed. You want to go to Fort Fort Bragg, North Carolina and go to the Q course. And I was like, rogers aren't. Took my orders, folded them up, put in my cargo pocket, says good luck and walked out.

[A]

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[B]

We jumped and then

[A]

how was. Real quick, how was your knees or your knee through throughout this process? And now it's really getting tested at jump school.

[B]

Well, I had, I had rehabbed it. I was as strong as I ever was. Didn't give me any trouble. I was, I was, I felt like my, my strength was good. I didn't have any swelling going on. Yeah, it didn't start catching up until later.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But so we graduated and got our blood wings and had a, had a fun time doing that. I was engaged. I was going to get married between airborne school and well, I thought I was going to, to rip. So we hadn't really set a date. And then when I realized everything was going to change, we, we had this like impromptu little package that we bought to go to Harrah's Casino, Lake Tahoe. So me and my buddies, three of my buddies, we piled in my truck, we drove down to, to Atlanta, had a very fast bachelor party. I flew to Tahoe Got married and I. And literally we flew back to DFW airport and I had to catch a plane back to Charlotte, I guess where to get to Fort Bragg. And it was like, so you want to see you? Yeah. And off I went to Sop Sea.

[A]

You know, could you remind them or some people may not know because you kind of slid in there what, what blood wings are.

[B]

So when you graduate airborne school, you get the silver wings pinned on your chest. Well, our sergeant airborne left a little appulets, what are called off the back. And they put it into your. In your shirt and they punch you. Well, then the. Our entire platoon walks around and punches each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you get hit in the chest several times and you're. You're bleeding out of your pec. And if you do it right, your. Your BDU's to. To date myself. Your BDU's were, you know, probably about a coffee cup size. Blood stain on your back. Right.

[A]

Those little pins in the back, just stab it into your pack.

[B]

And they're quarter inch.

[A]

Yeah, they're quarter inch. Yeah.

[B]

Then they would. They would pull them out and relocate them and give you some.

[A]

Oh, that's savage.

[B]

So we got our blood wings and then we.

[A]

Someone tells me they don't do that anymore, but I hope they do.

[B]

I think they still do. Whether it's regulated or not.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Whether it's regulated or not.

[B]

We drove. We were so excited. Me and my buddies drove to Atlanta. We stopped at some bar. We're wearing our uniforms, we still have our wings and our blood wings. And we go into a bar, just walking. Not. Not supposed to do this, right. Walk in and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And at this point, America was still kind of unified and we were pretty popular. We'd have to buy a drink for like an hour. And then we went to a guy's. A guy was dating a girl and one of my buddies was dating a girl in Atlanta. We changed, went out and had one night. And then I flew to Dallas, met my wife, my fiance, my first. First wife. We flew to Tahoe, got married, and then went back and Whirlwind tour and. And then January 4, 2004, I'm standing in formation at Stop Sea with 278 guys at the SAP Sea Barracks at Fort Bragg. And that kicked off that adventure.

[A]

Right. And we wouldn't even know it at the time, but that'll put us at brag at the same time. I'd have been at the end of my journey. You'd have been at the beginning of yours.

[B]

Yeah, you'd been there a year or so before me, so.

[A]

And I was, and I was.

[B]

And did you get in a gig pit?

[A]

Yeah, I was, I was familiar with the gig.

[B]

I was very. We were all immersed into the gig pit.

[A]

Yeah. The man, you know, they. So the gig pit for, for everyone is just this vile pit of muddy water that's held in by, by sandbags and it's just fecal. Yeah. Just everything bad. It's, it's been there, it's full of bacteria. It, it's, it smells like sewage. It is, it is like sewage. If you do something wrong, you got to go to the gig pit and they're going to do up and down drills on you, make you roll around in it, make you do push ups in it, sit ups in it, whatever it is they want you to do in it. And you're going to go in full uniformed for as long as they want. And it may not be just you. It might, it could be a whole squad, could be everyone that could fit in a gig pit and they're going to have you in there until they're satisfied that whatever is that needed to be corrected is now corrected.

[B]

Zastro said it was the representation of a third world country. That's what he told us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you walk by, you smelled it and everything.

[A]

So I, I tell you what's unfortunate about, about that and I'm all for it's turned into a bad word. But I'm, I'm gonna say it anyway. Hazing. Hazing. There's, Hazing can go too far. But there's nothing wrong with, with hazing and forging young men by putting them through hard times and hard corrective actions that make them not make the same mistake twice. We have to have it. But the unfortunate thing about the gig pit was, you know, we're doing land navigation at the time and everyone's coming back, you're busting brush and everyone has all these scratches on their arms and, and legs and hands and you put them in that gig pit. And we did lose a few really good dudes that, that got rolled over. I hope they still made it but to infection. And that was, that was the unfortunate part about it.

[B]

Yeah. But the great times are forward through shared misery. So we rolled around that and then the very first night, 278 guys, one of the, the sergeants said who's the oldest guy in this formation? And they all knew it was me.

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

So I had to call out roll and took me a long time because like, yeah, he got, he got med boarded, he got this. I'm just going down the list and down the list and then out come the dogs, Gunner, the Weimaraner and a couple of Dobermans. And then they said, take off your PCs, put your wallet, your watch, everything but your wedding ring and do the hat. And then we, this is around 6:30pm and they didn't stop smoking us until probably 4:00am it went forever. Yeah, like 125 guys quit that first night. So they were, they were really. And that was, that was Sopsy hold, right?

[A]

Oh, the topsy hold.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're not even in Sopsy.

[B]

That was. We had to wait two weeks before Sopsy started. So.

[A]

Yeah, and if everyone doesn't know, Sopsy is a. It's a selection preparation program. So it's, it's just a gate to go through to get to selection. Man, you've. Well, you just got me thinking about a whole bunch of SOP C stories. But they do ridiculous things like that. They would do. Then they would do like psychological things where we just, we'd be running during morning pt. We'd do PT two, three times a day and, and they would take us out to the parade field which was right behind sopsy for the 82nd. There's a huge 82nd billboard there. And they just put us in the front leaning rest. And they just tell us all, guys, there's nothing wrong with going to the 82nd. It is the premier airborne unit of the United States of America. It's a privilege to go to that place. And Special Forces isn't for everyone. But it's okay, you're still going to serve your country. And they'd start talking up the 82nd, trying to get guys to go to the 82nd and, and see what their, their will, what their willpower was. They try everything to get you to quit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, it was awesome.

[B]

There was actually a storm and we're stop C and the base would close down and then they called us into a formation and I believe it was Terry. Mass Sergeant Terry goes SF doesn't stop training just because it's cold. So we were allowed to wear a beanie hat. We had our T shirts on our ranger panties and we took off on about a 10 mile run and he had his Labrador with him tromping through the snow. And yeah, every day was. There was something, some sort of gut check, fill your rucksack, as heavy, as much junk as you can stuff in it. You know, I remember it was. Your, your awareness, your, your self preservation Was so tested every day brought out the very best. And, and then when you see guys how like your. Your friends handle the stress around you and you feel so motivated, hey, I can't succumb to this, you know. Yeah, I got to be strong for my buddy, you know.

[A]

Yeah, I've said it before. Quitting is contagious. But so, so is staying there. So is being strong, so is sticking it out. That's, that's contagious too. And when I'm from the, from my SOP C days, I still have friends that I talk to because like you said, you form a bond during those absolutely ridiculous hard times. And you know the type of man they are now because you've seen the worst. And then you go to selection and see another type of worse. And then you go to SUT and see another type of worst.

[B]

I think that's when the, the Phase 2 sut is when it really. Because guys you respected just got broke off. You know, they got. I know guys that, they got cellulitis, they got a broken ankle, they had a head injury or whatever and they just had to get recycled or one. One entire hut got. Got kicked out for, for doing something. I can't recall what it was. Something on the objective. A couple of guys like, like flagged each other or something, but they, they already simmed them, made him bear crawl like a thousand yards. And then I think I had like a mini revolt and they kicked the entire.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The entire hut. Like 15 guys got kicked out.

[A]

So to keep everyone on the, you know, on, on the timeline. Sopsy. And how do you remember how long Sopsy was? Three weeks.

[B]

Three weeks.

[A]

Three weeks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You get a weekend off and then you go to selection selections. Three or four weeks. You get a short stent to lick your wounds. And then you go to phase two.

[B]

Pldc. B knock.

[A]

You go to PLDC B knock.

[B]

Then phase two, which is.

[A]

Allows you to be promoted. You know, if, if you make it through the Q course, if I remember right, you get credit for PLDC right away, but you don't get credit for BNOC until you graduate the Q course. And pldc, Primary Leadership Development Course. Bnoc, the basic Non Commissions Officer course. I'm sure all those names have changed now. Yeah.

[B]

And dating us, which again, I had tremendous time in that too.

[A]

Yeah, a lot of PT there too. What I'm getting at is, is. And then phase two,

[B]

Small Unit tactics.

[A]

With small unit tactics. Thank you. It's. And we're going to tell these stories about phase two, but it's not just an isolated. In phase two, you've gone through all these schools and before that you're at airborne school and before that you're at basic training. Your body is getting tested and just. And worn down and worn down and worn down. By the time you hit phase two, I think that's really. You have a bunch of men that clearly don't want to quit. But it's easy to not quit when you're fresh. It's a lot harder after just six months of just continually getting beat down to the ground. That's, that's where psychologically phase two, I think, I don't think people realize it's not just phase two. It's this whole path you've been on.

[B]

And I think that's where the age starts, started creeping in. You know, most of the guys are in their 20s, 20s, you know, and then the culmination of everything, you know, started sneaking up on some guys, but

[A]

because it feels like it's never going to end and you're really at the beginning still of the Q course. You haven't even got any right.

[B]

So.

[A]

And here's something else that's unique about small unit tactics. Up until this, up until this time, you're really only being tested individually. Everything you know from basic training, there's a couple team stuff and, and platoon size, but it's really individual. Airborne school is very individual. SOP C is for the most part an individual. Same thing with selection. Even though you have some team events, everything's individual. When you get to small unit tactics, you're both expected to be a very good follower. And now you're expected to be a very good leader.

[B]

And it's, and that's, and that's where I was always physically fit. I was a leading by example guy. And then I got to Sut and I had my come to Jesus moment when I had neglected a step in the Ranger handbook on a to run. I was supposed to run, run an ambush, okay, And I jacked up something. I messed, I messed up a step. And our walker, our team sergeant said hey, pure this mother effort last. And so for those who don't know if you get peered last twice in Sut at that time they took you out of the course. So buddy of mine, Mike, won't tell you his last name, but Mike was a Bravo. And he pulled me in and we just started doing sand tables and working all the steps, you know, and yeah, and I, and I made it a point where I'm not going to be seen sleeping Until I get this right. So we stayed up for like two days.

[A]

Love the motivation.

[B]

Yeah. And then he said, well, you're good at a couple of things. One of them is carrying heavy stuff because I was the big ogre in my, in my team.

[A]

So it seems like such a backhanded compliment, but it is, it is a valuable asset on a team.

[B]

So I was like, hey, I'm carrying a 240. So you, you carry the tripod? Yeah, the aluminum and steel tripod. I'll carry the 240 and as much ammo as my rock will carry. So, yeah, I try to dig myself out of that hole by carrying.

[A]

That'll do it. And that'll do it.

[B]

I didn't get beard last ever again. Yeah, it worked out.

[A]

The innate ability of, of what we were talking about, of anyone. There's a lot of high performing individuals, but they have no business leading men. And phase two really weeds those guys out. SF is so driven as a team. Odas are a team. You can't have 12 high performers that don't get along. 12 high performers that can't work as a team. And it really tests you as a leader. Do you have that innate ability to motivate other men to do what you need done? Do they respect you enough to follow you?

[B]

That's a great point.

[A]

Can. Do you have the social IQ to talk to them in a way that says, hey, I'm the boss, but I'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm, I'm not a tyrannical ruler, you know, and

[B]

you gotta have the foresight to. Even though you know how you have differences with these guys and you may have a grudge or two, you've got to completely wash that out and clean it up.

[A]

Right.

[B]

To. To operate correctly. Not. And not let that be a distraction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you got to rise above a lot of issues. So it was in a complete immersion into that. And I know they're really hard on our officer. We had two officers, two captains, and they were really hard on those guys. And so right then we felt like we needed to help those guys out. So we're trying to pull their weight. But it was.

[A]

And, and everyone knows the guy who I said, you have to be a good follower and a good leader because there's some guys that actually knew the job and probably would have been good leaders when it was their time to be a leader, but no one wanted to do anything they said, because when it was their time to be a follower, they were, they were a problem. You know. Oh, you fell asleep at your, at your position when it was my turn to be leader.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now you're the leader and you want to make sure everyone's awake. You weren't awake for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I mean, those things and you, you take away sleep, you take away food.

[B]

Eating, eating the Folgers coffee packets.

[A]

I've seen guys, I see guys take that little Tabasco sauce, put it on their finger and rub it in their eyes. I've just, I've seen some crazy stuff for guys to try to stay awake because it is, it is a battle.

[B]

I did not dip very often the Copenhagen until I got into that. Those, some of those nights.

[A]

Yeah, I understand what, I understand what people do. I do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did. Here's another thing I don't think people understand as well. They, they do a good. Don't get me wrong, coming from a different unit, having a background helps because this isn't the first time you've seen it. But they will teach you everything you need to know at every course you go to. Now, if it's your first time hearing about it, you're. How fast can you pick it up and, and apply it? Do you feel like essentially being an 18x ray because it's really what you ended up being. Did you have a hard time with the drinking through the fire hose or for the most part you were able to grasp it and what did you need help by with, I think. And you kind of with phase two specifically, already alluded to this, needed help from classmates to help you drink from that fire hose.

[B]

It was all the physical stuff came good to me. I was good for that. But the process and I would rush, I would tend to get like an adrenaline filled rush on, on target, you know, and so I had to, I guess learn how to process information better and be more, more into. In line with details.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, that was probably my weakness was being detail oriented. And they taught me, hey, if you're, if you want to be, just be like caveman, rusty, strong, you know, it's not going to work out for you. Go to the, go to the infantry. They can, they can use you. You can. But if you got to be a thinker to be at this level. So I had to study, I had to, I had to read the Ranger handbook. You know, it wasn't just memorizing the, you know, I, I had memorized the Ranger creed. I thought I was going to rip, right. So I had to turn and go beyond the first page and dive in and to dive into that, you know,

[A]

where'd you go next? What Ms. Did you get?

[B]

So I got 18 echo.

[A]

What'd you think about that? When you got assigned Echo? Did you care?

[B]

I was. I was wanting to be a Bravo. I wanted to be a weapons guy.

[A]

I could have guessed that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Based off of our conversation already.

[B]

So. I mean, I've always been into firearms, but.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I go to Echo. And then. And then I started. You know, we're always kind of hearing how things have been done two or three years ago. And I'm thinking we got to learn Morse code. And then Morse code had been removed. And the first thing that we got into was. Was cryptography. And a lot more studying than I thought I was going to get into. When I got in the army, you know, I studied exercise physiology, cardiology classes, all this stuff. And I thought, well, the army will be easy. Combo school was difficult. It was very technical. It was. You know, and they would. They would issue us equipment with stuff they knew was wrong with it. Yeah. Just. Just to see if. If you could catch what was wrong. Like this connection's broken. Fix this. It was very. It was. It was an incredible course. Yeah. I mean, because they know that when you go overseas and you're bumping around in the night, you're going to have something go down. How are you going to fix it? So they did a tremendous job of getting us ready for all that.

[A]

But antenna theory was a great class.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know, learning understanding radio waves. Understanding the different types of antennas. Deducting the F2 layers of. Of the atmosphere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People don't. The being able to bounce a HF radio wave off the atmosphere at a low frequency. That. So it doesn't leave it, but it bounces. Bounces off of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And another radio station, 148 or the 118, another radio station, 500 miles will get it off your bounce signals. I mean, there's some really nerdy stuff you got to learn as a special forces combo.

[B]

Yeah, it was. It was fascinating. It took all that I had to do it right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it was the.

[B]

And then, you know, we'd already. We'd PT for probably an hour and a half, two hours prior to every class. So that was legit. The pt.

[A]

The Echo course was legit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Max. Max. Max Gain, also known as Max Payne. That was. That was. There was a bunch of keepers of the tablet at that. At that level, too.

[A]

I tell them what Max Gain is.

[B]

It's one of the last Game. So you, you get into small teams and you're all in, you know, you're all 18 echoes, you're all combo sergeants. So six to eight of you. And we're moving through the woods and we were shooting because they used to take you to Fort Seal, Oklahoma and you had to shoot back to Fort Bragg. But for whatever reason we stayed in Fort Bragg and just went to the nta, the northern training area of Fort Bragg. And we had to do just big long movements, you know, 8, 10, 12, 15 kilometers. And then everybody had to do a shot, like one shot a day or sometimes two shots a day. And you had to make a successful combo shot, whether it be shooting an email on your toughbook to Fort Seal or receiving a message at a certain time. And you had to do it like 11 o'.

[A]

Clock.

[B]

So you're getting set up at 10:30 and you'd make your shot right on the minute. So it was, it was tough, it was challenging. And then you're carrying £150 and you're not sleeping. So a lot of stress and inducing

[A]

in that Robin Sage out of insanely heavy rock. But I, I think the heaviest rock that I can, if you ask me, I think would be the ruck I carried during Max Game.

[B]

Same here.

[A]

An insane, the type of ruck, the first time you pick it up you go, yeah, no. So we had, we're not, we're not really carrying this.

[B]

We had, we had the, the comma modification where they put the extra battery pouches on our, our rucks so we, extra junk we were carrying. So we made our, our ruck bigger. Yeah, but carrying all the, all the extra batteries, the, the hand crank, you know, the, the thermal chargers that we carried, you know, or it was just, it was a bunch of junk, you know, holding your ruck together with 550 cord and duct tape. That's right.

[A]

Max Game broke a lot of ruck frames.

[B]

Yeah. And then, and then we, we had, after Max Game, we did a short like a refresher with the radios again and did computer, a computer class. And then it was off to Robin Sage. Or was it language school? Probably. Probably Robin Sage didn't rain. Didn't. Language school.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think you're pretty close to me. I know they've, they've changed it a little bit since then, but I'd imagine it had been phase three to, to rate Robin Sage.

[B]

Yeah, Language.

[A]

And then Seer.

[B]

Yeah, that's exactly what it was.

[A]

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[B]

So it's Robin Sage, Pineland.

[A]

How was your Robin Sage experience? Was it. Robin Sage gets hyped up and some teams have a better Robin Sage than they thought and some good Robinson. It was just a continents on your lane.

[B]

It was just a continual, a continuation of what to expect when you get deployed. You know. And there was a. We were supposed to jump into some place called Star Airport. We're going to jump into it. And the weather was so bad. We were in a casa, small aircraft that the army would contract 12 of us. And we didn't jump. We landed, got out the back gate and we had to do about a 15 kilometer movement. And we're meeting up with this guerrilla chief leader named Colonel Blaze was his name.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he was like the leader of the Pineland resistance, you know?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So we walked through the rain and that's when I experienced my first cold casualty. I, I, my lips were purple and I started getting dizzy and had to stop and change clothes and like drink water and find some sunlight because the sun was coming up and I got, I was freezing. It was like April. Yeah, but it, but we walked for so long just Soaking Wet in 48, 50 degrees. You know, it wasn't even that cold. But I was just, I don't know, I got, I got it. I was almost a, almost had to drag my ass out of there. But we finally met up with Colonel Blaze. And this is what, this is one of the funniest stories I've ever seen. We go in this little school, like a, it was like an old church school kind of a building. And he's like being really formal. I am Colonel Blaze. Welcome to Pineland. You're going to help us with our resistance. You know, the great soldiers of America and all this. And he's sitting around and he offers some stew and it was like minestrone or something. I don't Know, we're eating this stew and he goes, I want to introduce you to my daughter. And he brings out this young lady, and she's wearing just like a car heart shirt and jeans. And he's like, as our custom, if anybody makes eye contact with my daughter, you marry her. So they're getting us used to, like, different cultures and all this sort of stuff, right? So we're sitting down in a circle and he's talking about Pineland, and, you know, where we're going to go next, and we're going to meet, you know, his little plan. And, you know, we're going to absorb his force of like a hundred men and train them and force multiply. And we're sitting there listening to a talk, and he has like a dry erase board and everything. And then I hear, father, I have been married. One of the guys on my, on my team had made eye contact with her. No. Yeah. And he goes, congratulations, it's a wonderful day. And he stands up and he grabs him and grabs her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they, they gotta hold hands and everything. And we're like, just like, it's, it's not funny. We're just like shocked, you know, what

[A]

are we gonna do?

[B]

So for the next three days, she just followed us around where we went.

[A]

You know, it. It sounds silly, but what, what they're really doing, I mean, they, they have. They have to force a situation on you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's. And it really doesn't matter where you at, what level in special operation you're at. From the beginning of it to the very top of it. There is one attribute that everyone has to have, and that's problem solving. You guys have to get together and be like, how are we going to deal with this?

[B]

And that's an ambush.

[A]

That's nothing. Problem solving.

[B]

Colonel Blaze's wife, or Colonel Blaze's daughter and Jesse's wife, his new wife.

[A]

Do you remember how you guys ended up getting out of that?

[B]

They just, she just kind of faded. I think they wanted to make Hammer the point home of like, respect cultures.

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

So after a couple days, she, like, she left. But we, we, we had a. An infantry group, was our guerrilla force. And they just came back from Afghanistan rotation. Oh, really? And they were like third ID. They were like legitimate guys, probably like 25 or 30 of them. And they weren't very excited about getting put on this detail. Detail. You know, I think they'd gotten like two or three weeks off, but here they are and they all were, you know, they were carrying their, their M4s and their, their service rifles and everything. And, and they were just like, man, we, they were very blunt. Hey, we just got off the rotation for like a year, so this kind of sucks. But we were out there for three, three or four weeks out in the woods taking them on raised ambushes, you know, whatever. And it was, we had to teach them classes. And actually we did teach them some things they didn't know, which was kind of cool about it.

[A]

Goes back to what we just said, whether it's phase two or phase four. And this is a little bit more real world within the training environment because you really have people that you have to motivate. And it's just funny. As, as, as great as Robin Sage was, I felt like some things were forced and a little cheesy. The longer I was nsf, the more I was like, you know what? Robin Sage was absolutely right. Guess what? Your partner force in Afghanistan isn't going to be very motivated either. No, they would. Or Iraq. Wherever you go, they're not going to be as motivated as you. Now you have to take these men. Just what I talked about in phase two with your peers. Now you have to do it to another partner force. How do you motivate men to do what you need them to do and respect you?

[B]

Yeah, it's. And see, I hadn't been on a rotation yet and all these guys had come back from one and they had cib. So they're looking down their nose at you a little bit like, okay, SF guy. You know, so the respect thing is really a challenge. Yeah, you know, so, yeah, it was. And it'd be the same exact way if you go to Afghanistan and, or Iraq, because they're gonna have been fighting,

[A]

you know, so gotta pull up and listen, buddy, my Green Beret is on the line. Don't screw this up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We get back out of here, I'll pay you.

[A]

Right. What does it take? What does it take? No, but I've been way too deep at this point. I can't fail now.

[B]

No, but I, you know, we had, we had kind of like sut. You had to lead three or four, you know, major movements and, and graduate from that. And it wasn't a very formal thing to graduate from that. Then we kept having these training holds. It's what, you know, two years and two months in the Q course. And you would get out of a one class and have to wait three weeks. So we got out of Sage and it was about a three or four week wait till Russian and then and that was one of the longest languages, I think Mandarin, Arabic and then Russian are your three long ones.

[A]

So I had good experience. My training holds, they weren't. Some guys had bad experiences where they were in formations a lot because they wanted, you know, their instructors wanted to make sure nothing bad happened.

[B]

But I had a good one.

[A]

I had a good one. And some of my best times for those training holds.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you could go out, you could live.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, be like a real person. But then you had. You had two hours of PT to get. Get look forward to in the morning and we were rolling with. We had to do some. Some jiu jitsu stuff and it was good. Master sergeant win.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He lost his life in Iraq.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He was a. The army's best shooter. Like. Like three gun competition. He was. But he was our. Our in coic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For most. Most of my time.

[A]

Oh, I remember now. I don't. I remember while my, while my training hold time was was, was pretty easy. Our NCOIC said, if you have a 300 PT test score or above, I won't make you come in and do PT. And you want to talk. I always had a 300 and above PT score anyway. But you want to talk about extra motivation?

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

That. That'll. That'll motivate you.

[B]

Did you go to the World's Gym in Fville? There's a big World's Gym that I used to go to.

[A]

Is it right around the. The corner from this on the side of a By. By Hooters in that little parking lot?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was there and it was the Hooters and wings and did you

[A]

end up recycling anything in the Q course you go straight through.

[B]

Never did recycle, but it was just a long.

[A]

Right. It's long enough going straight through.

[B]

Yeah. And I'd heard horror stories that recycle and I was. I could not imagine having to do this again. So yeah, you know, all the things that guys can do wrong. The DUIs or just failing a test. We were always. And me and my roommates, I had. I had four roommates plus me. We had this big rent house and we all motivated each other pretty good. We didn't have any really weak links and we were all guys. Like one was a loss. SMU law school grad who did triathlons. So he was highly motivated. We were all older guy. I was the oldest. But we're all older guys, so we're all like. We all knew that at our age we had to stay in really good shape.

[A]

And I don't think that changes from Q course to Q course. Let me tell you what. What made me successful in the Q course, and it made me successful in otc. It's just a natural thing that that kind of happens. I don't think you can force it, but good guys hang around good guys, high performers find other high performers and they make each other better and they, they drive each other. And it sounds like you ended up with a similar group of guys that you, you know, you can depend on them and, you know they were going to make you better just by being around them.

[B]

We called ourselves the Highwayman.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah, that song Way the Highwayman with Johnny Cash and Waylon Willie and Chris Kristofferson.

[A]

Yeah. And I tell people all the time, show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are. And that is so true.

[B]

So one of the. One of our guys in our circle was Josh Townsend, who lost his life in Afghanistan. But Josh was a. A little hot shots that jumped into. He worked for the forestry service in California and was a mountain firefighter.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And the best rucker I've ever seen because he was used to carrying, like, two chainsaws and 10 gallons of gas and water and. Yeah, I mean, he could carry. He was a pack mule. And he was a tremendous guy to have around. He was. He was. He was crazy. I mean, he would drink a bottle of Jameson and then wake up and, you know, sleep on our floor, get up and go to PT and like, lead the run. And he was one of those guys that could just do that, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Fall down a flight of stairs and land on his feet and go, hey, okay, what we got?

[A]

So.

[B]

But he was. He was a rare, rare breed. You could actually abuse his body but still be a high performer.

[A]

Yeah, there's a few of those guys who are just. They're just amazing. Did. Did you have a favorite phase or training portion of the Q course that stands out and you're like, you know, what? That, that.

[B]

Well, during. During Russian, we. Me and a friend of mine named Mark, we both shared that Russian. That Russian school. And we could see the end of the. The course coming, you know, down, down the road, and we felt really confident what we were doing, and we were just kind of. We kind of were. The pressure felt like it had been off a little bit. We weren't like the doom. The doom setting you have in Suts and all that was. But I just felt like I had accomplished a lot and I felt highly motivated and that was a time I really, I enjoyed. I was staying, staying in good shape and I thought I had a really good plan ahead of me, you know, and. But the, the echoes. The echoes. There's a lot of echoes. In my language school we stayed in touch with and we were all a tight group of guys. We would go to. There was a sports bar in Fayetteville that had a karaoke every Thursday night. And we would go like every Thursday night. But the rule was you had to sing a song by a female. I love it. You couldn't sing it. Yeah. So there was a, a little Polish guy. He's one of the funniest guys I've ever known in my life, named Wojo. It's short if you know, if you know Wojo, you know. But he gets up there and he, with the utmost confidence, belts out. Man. I feel like I never had laugh so hard in my life. I mean, the Husk Hardware. We go to Husk Hardware.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the sports bar karaoke nights. And that was probably the most enjoyable because we really, the, the self preservation thing had kind of gone behind us and we were starting to make real relationships.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because early on all you care about is surviving.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Can I get through this? If he didn't? Okay. But at least I did.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But then we were starting to form the real cohesion, you know.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And then off to Sears School we went. And then that further, you know, ingrained the bond between a lot of us.

[A]

Yeah. Sears school is one of the few schools. And I don't, I don't want to say the Q course disappointed me. That's not the word I want to use. Part of it was, was what I hyped it up. The Q course is exactly what it should be. When you graduate the Q course, you are the master of the basics. But just that, the basics. You're not coming out Rambo. You're not coming out a sniper.

[B]

You're not shooting just a whole lot.

[A]

You're not shooting a whole lot. You don't really know how to clear houses. You don't. Unless you're a Charlie. You don't really work with demolitions. You're going to get that. Just hold on. You're going to get that. Within a few years you get all of that, you know, when, when you get to your team. So I just thought there'd be more advanced things. But, but that's, that's my fault for not knowing the process. But Sear School absolutely met my expectations. Of, of What?

[B]

I thought sear school was going to be mine too. I was, I look, I think about it every day. The how, what. What their goal was and how they accomplished it. To make you really self aware and to make, you know what buttons they can push and to get. Get to know thyself really well.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's a great way to put it. I really think. Just because of the conditions that they put you in, the unique conditions they put you in. I thought I knew who I was, but sear school really shows you who you really are.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah, it does. It was. It was a very cool experience when

[B]

you got, oh, go ahead, go ahead. I said, I won't spoil it for anybody, but there's some. There's some surprises.

[A]

It's full of surprises.

[B]

I would do it again. I wish I had done it at a little bit younger age. But the level of training that the instructors had had undergone to put you in those situations, it was pretty fascinating. And great actors, I mean, those guys could go to Hollywood and tear it up.

[A]

Oh, they did. I mean, they sent it. They did. Yeah. They were out. The role they were all in.

[B]

My only story is I got. They put us in a room about the size of this room right here with probably 50 guys, and it's this December. And they sprayed us down the water hose. Yeah. They gave us one blanket. Hey, use this blanket. Stay warm. And we're like huddling up and giving it away. And then one of the guys had been interrogated and they drug him in front of our door and they threw him down on the ground. He was not wearing any clothes. In his wet bag were his. His hospital scrubs. Totally naked, laying in front of our door. Me and one of my friends, I keep in touch with Mike. You know who you are. We open a door, we go out there. Couldn't make. You couldn't make eye contact with your captors. Remember that? You had to walk around with your head down. And I walked to this guy and he's huddled up naked. I was gonna grab him and drag him in. And I hear where you go, who you are, what you do, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I hear a. And I see Mike fall down right next to me. Well, when he fell down, I looked and I caught eyes with the guy and he goes. And this dude had. He was definitely on the program. He was Jack. And he waves his finger at me and he rears back and I close my eyes and he just palm drove me right in the jawbone. Yeah. And it gave me a Concussion.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we got the guy back in. And I had gravel in my mouth from landing in the gravel. So that was that experience trying to remember how to navigate the course with a concussion. It was amazing.

[A]

That'll add an extra degree of difficulty when you need all your wits about

[B]

you and your ears are going.

[A]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

[B]

Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back.

[A]

So I thought it would be be fun if we made 15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[B]

of 45 for three months.

[A]

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[B]

a 12 month plan.

[A]

Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes.

[B]

Me slow when network is busy.

[A]

See terms. Yeah. So you had Russian. So you knew you were going to 10th group. That's why you got, why you got Russian.

[B]

I got Russian.

[A]

When, when you show up to 10th group. What, how, how was that experience and how was the experience meeting your, your first team for the first time?

[B]

It took me a while to meet my team. I showed up and I was just, you know, have all these expectations and going to a team, you know. Well, I go, I go and, and the sergeant major said, hey, we thought you were going to be here last week and I was going to put you in 2nd Battalion. And you guys are getting ready to go like in two months to rotation, but you didn't show up in time. So I backfilled a guy out of, out of comma hold and I put him in your spot. So you got to go to comma hold.

[A]

I want a gut punch.

[B]

So I, you know, I enlisted from nine. Eleven was my motivation. I was, I was injured. So now we're talking 2006. I show up to a 2 10th group. This is five years after the fact. Yeah. And then I go to 3rd Battalion. And they had just came back from rotation, so I knew I was going to wait another year or so. But I did commo hold. I hosted a, I was in charge of running a Soldier of the Year competition. I taught land nav to soldier of the Year guys. I taught land nab to guys just getting back out of the course. And I was like, I got to get out of here. And I finally contacted Master Sergeant Terry. He was finishing up his time at as an instructor and he told Me to go see ron hall and 3rd Battalion, Charlie Company. And Ron called me, brought me in and said, hey, you're going to be the senior. The, the seniors going to Ranger School. And he's going to go to anoc, probably Advanced Non Commissioned Officer School. So you're going to be the senior. Echo, first day. So there I was.

[A]

And what a pendulum swing.

[B]

Yeah. So I go, I got what I wanted, you know.

[A]

Right. Careful.

[B]

And Ron, I'm not going to say he had it in for X rays, but he had taken a long way around the world to be in Special forces. You know, 18 years old, he's 82nd Airborne, had done all the schools, and he and I were very close to the same age. And he's like, go count radios, you know, do inventories. So he's like, look around. He goes, read the room. Remember, I recall, you know, these are old conversations, but I know what he said. He said, read the room. We. They just got back from rotation. They lost their team. Sergeant Kelly Hornbeck. There'd been a couple of tragic circumstances on that team. And he was like, we're not in the mood for any new guy bullshit, so don't be a. Just don't ask questions. Just go do your job. So being at the age, you know, I'm 34, you think you're hot shit, you show up to your team and it was just a further exercise in humility.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, do your inventories go up, make a comm shot, test your stuff. And every, every day we go to the YMCA and swim. And we're getting ready for our 2,000 meter open water swim. So it was amazing. You know, we had to show up at five in the morning and two and a half hours of pt and you're trying to really. Because you're. Now you're getting retested, everybody's staring at you, hey, can this guy, you know, can he carry his weight?

[A]

Yep. So, gotta prove yourself. All over.

[B]

You never prove yourself. Yeah, you never do. You know, I was talking to one of the Adezio a couple days ago and he's talking about, oh, here, you're a tough guy. And I'm like, well, you're not tough. You only can exhibit it on a daily basis.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Nobody owns it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, so it was just a great. It was just a very humbling time, you know, for me. And so roughly a year of, you know, cephalic company, cephalics and, and doing all these, you know, really cool train ups, we Went to, we went to Phoenix, Arizona and worked with the Phoenix swat and we blew up some old apartment buildings and, and did cqb, just room by room blowing holes through drywall going in. It was fun. And. Yeah.

[A]

Because now you're doing real special.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Stuff.

[B]

Yeah. And then we get sent to, to Iraq and the battle of Bakuba, Diala Province. And it was, it was an interesting time and it was just very vivid. It was. Even though it's been a long time ago, I can remember almost every day in sequence, you know.

[A]

Yeah. A Bakuba, it's, I don't think it got a lot of media attention like certain hotspots and rightfully so. I mean at the end of the day it's no, it was no Fallujah. It was no response city, those big ones. But make no mistake about it, any SF guy that, that went through Iraq, especially that time knows about there was

[B]

some notable losses of life in Bakuba.

[A]

It was, it was a action packed area to be operating in. And we all knew it, we all knew it because we, we could, we could hear the satcom, you know, reports come over, troops in contact again or get a report of another guy injured in that area or a loss of life in that area. So we knew that was a hot spot. A lot of, a lot of medals got handed out there as well for, for guys doing what Green Berets do.

[B]

My, I was sent, we, we landed in Balad. We had to go to Spain, wait for a bird for a couple of days and then we went from Spain to Balad and we landed in Balad and there was a mortar alarm going off, you know, and all the Air Force guys were scurrying into their little tunnels and we're offloading our, our equipment. And I knew I was going to be on an ADV team where me and our captain and our warrant were going to fly into our FOB Camp Alamo at, at FOB Gabe. We do a separate compound attached to FOB Gabe and we knew we're going to fly in for like three or four days ahead of our team. So I had to do a commo switch over and all that. So we jumped into a, to a Blackhawk and it was a 160 bird and, and the guy gave us a little premission brief, hey, these are going to be 80ft AGL, blah, blah, blah. We're going to go in and if something happens to the bird, we're going to try to go here and there and whatever. And at this, at this time we're like a warning, warning. And mortars are going off around us and everything. Ready to go into a tent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And pack our mags and put our frags on and everything. I was like, oh yeah, you know,

[A]

welcome to the show.

[B]

Get into the Blackhawk and then flying 80ft off the ground and we land into this compound at FOB Gave. And this senior Charlie had his long beard. He's like, about time you mother effort showed up. Because they had been there for like a legitimate year and they were sick of it. They were sick of it. And so we show up and I meet their senior commo guy. And he had been an instructor in the Q course and he vaguely recognized me. You know, he'd seen dozens. But long story short, he was like, hey, we're doing a crypto change tonight. We're gonna roll out tomorrow at 6, do a route memorization tour. It's like 2am he goes, I want you to replug in the crypto for all five gun trucks. And that's Satcom. That's you know, every radio that we had, right? And off I go, you know, radio check, real check, you know, shooting to shooting to FOB War Horse for our car, Satcom and back and forth. And it took about four hours, you know, right when we stand around and we do our, our com check. And then, you know, we did a, we did a little route tour on a map. They'd put the. Had this big ass map of Bakuba. And the outgoing team sergeant, he was actually their warrant, but the team sergeant had gotten shot. So he was the acting team sergeant. And he was like, hey, you know, here's the Mufrick Circle is the most heavily trafficked area with the most IEDs in our entire, you know, battle space. And this is route Orange, Route Purple, Route Vanessa. All this we're going to take. We're going to go down Vanessa and expect sniper fire, blah, blah, blah. And there was an area to our east that was just farmland and it was just wide open because your ID threats not so significant here because you can kind of see better and there's less areas to get ambushed. We drive to the edge of the FOB Gabe, and there's a Russian LMT or what do they call them, the personnel carriers. And it was our acting gate and we had some Iraqis driving it. And they back up, we get to the gate and the outgoing TV sergeant radios. I'm sitting in like truck two behind the driver and he goes, all right, hey Captain, if we hang a leftist Blackhawk down If we hang around this little house on the prairie, what do you want to see? And our captain goes, effort. Let's go see Black Hawk down. So we hang a left, and the gunner was a senior Bravo. And he kicks me in the leg and he goes, hey, mother effort. You're gonna get your CIB in about five minutes. And they're all very casual about it, you know, Right. The. The. My captains in truck won the warrant. Acting team sergeants. And right. Right in front of me is tc and he has a Ozarka bottle with. He's spitting his tobacco. Copenhagen in, and he's as cool as a cucumber. We go to Muick Circle and we start getting shot at. And then the gunners starts hitting.50 cal rounds, you know, sending him in. It's like clacking inside the noise, you know, you. And I'm like, you know, I'm wearing an Air Force boom mic. My left. My left ear is exposed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then we come around the circle, and it was early in the morning, but there were kids playing soccer, I guess, to beat the heat. And there was a big collection of kids playing soccer. And I'm looking, and they had piled up rocks to be their goal, the soccer goal. Well, the crowd starts partying, and there was a guy with a PKM or an rpd. An rpd. The older version.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Older belt fed comes walking out of the. In the middle wearing an Adidas tracksuit. And I was like, this doesn't look right. And I went, hey, hey. Left, left, hey. He goes, I see him. And then I just start seeing red tracer. And I guess the guy thought we wouldn't shoot because the kids were there. Yeah, but the kids all split.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the first time I've seen a human get pulverized by five.50 cal machine guns. So that was within my first five hours of being in Iraq.

[A]

Welcome to war. But.

[B]

But, yeah, I mean, I'm going to yield my war stories to you, but

[A]

you waited long enough for it.

[B]

But to watch that happen, to hear the rounds getting sent, seeing this stuff flying off this guy because he tried to. He tried to run, but a round went through his right shoulder. And his whole torso turned where I could see his chest, but his legs were going the other way.

[A]

The human body is some weird stuff, especially with.50 cal.

[B]

Yeah. When you see somebody contort like that. And then the guy, the acting team sergeant, has his good kill. Keep killing him. He's like spitting in his. It was a vivid experience.

[A]

After a year that's just Another day at work for those boys.

[B]

Yeah, they, they've been there before. Yeah. And what's the first rule of sf?

[A]

Look cool.

[B]

And so I was feeling like my heart rate was pounding against my body armor. I was like, I said I gotta look cool,

[A]

Man. Of course you've, you've really had, man, two careers. Really, you know, two lifetimes. Because even though you started late in the military, I mean we, we could go another hour with probably just the rest of the rest of that.

[B]

Let me be clear that I did not serve very long. I, and that's where the four year contract came in. Because when I was about to graduate the Q course, I got called in and said, hey, you only have nine months left on your contract, so you can be, you can work in the office as a tabbed soldier for nine months or you can do a two year extension.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I did a two year extension. So I did basically three years team time. And then I, I got into my second rotation, Iraq and I got sent home early.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I didn't do, even do a full second rotation.

[A]

But you, you, you, you packed in a, of a career's worth of work for, I mean, if you think of 80s and 90s, you know, some other guys never got to, never got to do any of that. And like I said, you made the most of the time that you were there. What, what was it that made you not reenlist? Did you feel like you checked the block of what, of what you intended to come in and do?

[B]

Well, you look at the atmosphere of SF at that time and it was go over, come back, go over, come back. And I felt like we were so well trained to actually get the job done. And I was married and I, and I wanted to get back into, I knew I wanted to get back into coaching.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I wasn't planning on making SF my career and I got into an organization that many of the guys, most of the guys do, you know, make a career out of it. But when I enlisted with the four year deal, my expectation was to get out and get back into coaching. Turned into a little bit longer.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But when my time was coming up, I was just like, I kind of wanted to get back into coaching. I wanted to, I started seeing the writing on the wall like, I'm 37, 38 years old, my body's starting to feel it. It's a very young man's game. Am I going to go 20 more years and be 57 and where am I going to be? Am I going to be On a B team, Am I going to be. What am I going to be doing? You know, what's my role going to be beyond 40 in SF?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, you know, they're not going to send me to selection. Right. At the age of 37.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, so I kind of was like, well, I need the best avenue for me to have is get my career going as a coach.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I got out. My enlistment ran out. I got out. And then.

[A]

Do you feel like that was a detriment to you taking, you know, that, that four or five year break away from coaching because.

[B]

Oh, definitely it set me back. And not that I, not that I regret it at all, but it set me back 10 years in my coaching profession because, you know, you look at, I was at Sam Houston State, who, who was coaching there at the time was a guy named David Bailiff. I'd made great connections with David Bailiff. He was the head coach at Rice Texas State. He's still at Texas State. There's a lot of really good coaches that, that were there that are in Division 1 level. And I had these connections that I left for six years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and. Trying to think of names of some of these guys are escaping me. But there's a lot of coaches that, that wanted me to come back and work with them and I wanted to, to exploit that while I was still relevant in their mind, you know. Tom Herman. Thank you. Tom Herman was an offensive coordinator kind of guy at Sam Houston State. He went on to be the head coach for Texas Longhorns and he was at Iowa State as an offensive coordinator. He was a offensive coordinator at, for Urban Meyer at Ohio State. So I wanted to get back on that radar of these guys. So that's why it kind of motivated me to get out early and not reenlist. So I got a job at Rice University. My very first job, working with David Bailiff. Did you.

[A]

Was that. How, how'd that go, getting that, that first opportunity? Is there anything you had to do? Would you just go around just putting your, your application and everywhere? It wasn't really a chance on you.

[B]

It was not really applications. It was just word of mouth.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And trying to reconnect with a bunch, a bunch of guys that I'd known for.

[A]

Relationship driven.

[B]

Yeah, it's very, it's, it's all about networking and all that. So. No, no coach is going to hire you if he doesn't know you or know a guy who knows you really well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had met David Bailiff the Head coach at Rice at the time. When I graduated the Q course, Tom and Herman invited me to go speak to the football team. So I haven't been. Hadn't been deployed yet, but I went and talked to this team, and he was really intrigued. So you stay in touch, you know, when you get out. I was at Fort Carson. We were doing some training. I was talking to an F16 pilot, and he was dropping dummy bombs on this, like, big collection of trucks they had out there. And my cell phone rings, my old Nokia, you know, brick that we had.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I pulled out, and it's like, tom Herman. Hey, Tom. Rusty, what are you doing? I said, I'm dropping bombs. What are you doing? He's like, well, I just want to know when you're going to get out. I need a strength coach. I was like, buddy, two more years. You.

[A]

I thought you.

[B]

I thought you were going to go for four. Yeah, well, all right, well, stay in touch. And. And that kind of planted a seed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and. But I'm. I made incredible friends. I got tremendous, tremendous respect. And like I said, if I was a younger man, I wish I'd have done it far 10 years prior, you know?

[A]

Right. But, yeah, got. God has a plan. And you.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I got. I got a taste of it, you know? Yeah, I got a taste of it.

[A]

The. How many. How many different organizations have. Have you been a part of? Post military.

[B]

Okay. So I got out of the Army. I got a job at Rice, and then I got it my very. I got the next head job at UL Lafayette, and then I went from your Lafayette to Texas Tech. We lasted three years, Texas Tech, and we got fired. Really got close to getting the. Pushing the bus over the hill there, and we got let go. And then it was a major undertaking, that program out there to get it going. And then I went from. To Army, West Point, West Point to Troy, and then we got the head coach at Troy. Got let go after my second year, and I thought, well, I'm done again. I got to look for another job.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's when I met. Met Coach Sumrall. And he came in and he already had somebody in mind he wanted to bring with him, and I was an afterthought. But some of the players really went to bat for me. And. And he's like, okay, I'll hear. I'll listen to this guy. He gave me 20 minutes to interview, and I said, the best ability is availability. And then he's like, okay, well, tell me more. And so I went to my year program with him and he was like 20 minutes turning two hours.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he's like, I guess we can make this work. So we had the best season in the history of the school. 12 and 2. Won the Cure bowl, won the conference. Ranked number 19, maybe that was 23. But 22 and 23 were very successful times for Troy. Ranked for like the first time ever. And he took me to Tulane with him. Yeah, we had success, a lot of success. You know, the 25 season.

[A]

Yeah. You guys went to the college playoffs.

[B]

Yep. The cfp and this is an amazing

[A]

feat for that program.

[B]

Yeah, they, they, we really got, I feel like we really got a lot out of that, that program. The players that we brought in to the, to the coach, to the credit of all the coaches, they assembled a just a really unique team, you know, and we had to get a quarterback last minute to come in from BYU and just piecemeal the team together. And we beat a Big Ten team. We beat the ACC championship team, Duke. We were scrappy. You know, Ole Miss had their way with us. You know, there's a different level, you know, but they beat us twice last year. Ole missed it. But it was a great experience for everybody involved to see that level of competition. And when we got on that field versus Ole Miss, you could just feel, hey, this is like, this is, this is another level you better get ready for, you know, And I think it was an eye opener to a lot of people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To be not just, you know, I've played against many, you know, SEC teams and I've coached in a big, at a Big 12 team, but a playoff game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In front of a sellout crowd with the expectations that we had versus theirs. It was, it was eye opening experience. It was great for everybody.

[A]

When did the rumor start going around that that summer all was going to be Florida's pick? Did you know that fairly early on or.

[B]

I did not have an idea. I did not ask.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I just wanted to keep my head down and do my job. You can't get, you can't be found guilty of peeking over the fence when you're still playing games. So I wanted to keep our football team dialed in. I did not ask. I just let him, you know, I just kept my faith in the, in the day to day process. And one morning we're working out together and he goes, hey, it's Florida. And I went, whoa. Yeah, that, that was like, holy crap, that's real.

[A]

It's. It's one of those things, especially asking you Know what are all the organizations been a part of? It's. And we'll. We'll. We'll just fast forward with, with. With good assumptions that. That hard work at a good program pays off. And let's say Florida's doing great over the next couple years. And people will look at you and they're like, well, yeah, he's. He's at Florida. And they just assume you're a, you know, a big name at a big place. You're the guy. You're the head strength and conditioning coach and that, you know, you. You had it fairly easy. Just. I don't know why people do. People just assume people succeeded and it was just naturally good for them. Maybe because it makes them feel better that that's why they didn't succeed. Because. Because he. He got it on Easy Street. And then you hear this story. I went to this college for a few years, got let go. I went to this college for a

[B]

few years, started a Division 2 school, sleeping in my office on a Papisan mattress. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. They don't, you know, they don't know what guys went through. Sure. There's always an outlier. Maybe there's someone, you know, who made it big on. On Easy Street. That's. That is not the norm. Guys bust their ass for years, and then you don't even get to hear about the amount of guys that busted their ass for years, did everything right, and still didn't get their big break.

[B]

Didn't work out for them. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, catching the lightning in the bottle of getting with the head coach that's successful enough to keep matriculating up the ladder, it's just. It's a tough gig.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and there's not very many strength coaches in my profession who have latched on to that guy and, and being able to hold on to it, you know? Yeah. Especially. It's like a bucking bull, you know,

[A]

especially in this culture of college football these days, that it's. It's. It's when. It's when now. No. No patience to develop a program. Win now or leave. So, you know, even with the, The. When I say the success. The success of being part of a. Of a major iconic Florida football organization, it's. It every year, it's kind of. It is kind of like being a tier one organization every day. I had to show up and earn my spot. Like, it is not. Nothing is guaranteed. You. Even though some people are looking to say you made it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But now you got to go out there and Prove it.

[B]

I think the cool thing about our staff is that everybody has taken the hard road to get there. Coach Sumrall, you know, played in high school football in, in around Huntsville, Alabama, went to Kentucky, played linebacker at a very physical level in a very physical conference and got some neck issue. Neck, neck, you know, neck injury issues, just from battery. You know, he led this team in tackles a year prior. So he'd been through it, you know, but he's in his 20th year and he started the University of San Diego non scholarship college. So he played it at, in the sec, got beat up, you know, and then started at the non scholarship level. Having to recruit and coach with no budget, not making any money and he had to work himself now from that level to where he's at. So the intensity that he has, the attention to detail, the urgency, he and I see a lot, we have a lot in common with that. I'm in my 32nd year and you know, I've either been a college football player, a coach, a soldier or a coach, and that's been my entire career.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so there's always one, always expect a game day, you know, always train for a game day. And the game day when you, when we were serving was hey, we've got this objective, this mission. So I've always been mission oriented and I always tell our team, same mindset, different mission.

[A]

Yeah, there's a college football just in general, there's a lot of rivalry and that's why we love college football, especially within the sec. There's a lot of rivalry, but I've always, and I think most people do, let's take, you can take Florida, the Florida, Florida State rivalry. Most level headed Florida Gator fans respected Bobby Bowden because of the way he ran that program, the type of man he was. I was very tired of getting beat by Alabama and to some degree watching them win over and over and over again. But you know what? I was always a fan of Nick Saban because of the way he carried himself and the culture of which he, he had there at Alabama. And I know, I know good culture when I see it. I've worked at the highest levels of, of the military and culture. Is it when I go talk to SWAT teams and I go talk to business, anyone I talk to, usually culture. If I'm not talking to them as an organization, I'm talking to their leadership about culture because it's so important. And when you allowed me to, to come over there and kind of see behind the curtain and see your guys's Day to day operation and who's running what. It absolutely stood out to me that this, the, the foundation of a good culture is here at the University of Florida and people are gonna be plenty of non Gator fans that are gonna hate on, on the University of Florida. And like, and again, like I said, that's the fun of college football. Yeah, but when you, but when you build a team and you build a team the right way and you win the right way, college football still respects that.

[B]

I mean we can't, I can't guarantee records. I just know that when you talk about that, that culture, that word, it's not win the day is when, the next minute. Because you can lose it in five minutes if you let one detail slide. And I think that's something that many coaches can overlook is hey, we had a good day. Well, these three guys didn't and they're going to influence two more guys. So it's a minute by minute and that's something that I think that I'm kind of built for is just to sustain and hold, hold the line on that. You know we have a, a real, no headphones in the building. We want you to interact with your teammates, interact with staff and hold the door. If you got your headphones on, you can't hear somebody walking up behind you. When you open up a door, you know, you can't interact. So we have little, little rules that you have to enforce. And, and I, I see the detail and that comes from, you know, the, the SF mindset. So. Yeah, but the details that go into the day to day operation, my staff knows me, they know what I'm going to say before I even say it. If I see something that's off, that's when, when you came in and you made the Gators up, I was like, you know, that's something I used to do and I've let that slide. So you checked me on that. We're going to be gators up on our plates, the smallest details, everything. Yeah, but it's a minute by minute standard that you have to. And it's, it can be exhausting. But you have to, to get 120 players or 116 players that we have to buy into it. It is a day by day, minute by minute operation.

[A]

Yeah. When, when you came to the University of Florida and again, if, if, if, if no one's been there before, I don't just say this is a Gator fan. I've been to stadiums across this country. I've been, I've Been. I've been behind the scenes at several NFL teams and I've seen organizations at a high level. And I'm telling you, unless you've been to a game of the Swamp, there's few things that come close to that. But when I showed up to the facility, that facility was better than the New England Patriots facility that I showed up to just a few years ago.

[B]

They don't have to recruit.

[A]

That is right. I mean, that facility was, was just top of the line. Amazing. What was the first thing that stood out to you when, when you show up there to the organization? You're like, wow, I'm at a different level of, of college.

[B]

Well, you drive by the stadium and you, you, you can just hear the echoes of the sounds of, of. Of that, you know, and that you're at the Swamp, you know, and the football operations center has been built like four years ago. So it. Very new. Extremely high ceilings, just cavernous size, huge building and, you know, 15,000 square foot weight room, cardio, mezzanine, indoor attached to it. And you're just like, I got what I need. I have what I need. You know, the resources are here. The resources are here. It is big time. Get it done. You know, there was some issues with the equipment that I wanted to resolve. And Buster Faulkner, he goes, well, can you get it done as it is? Because you don't get your, you don't get Sorenex overnight, you don't get your flooring redone overnight. It was about a 12 week process. And he goes, can you get it done as it is? And when he looked at me, I could tell, he was like, we really need you to make this stuff happen. I was like, coach, we'll get it done. Yeah, we'll get it done. And you feel the urgency from everybody and you understand, hey, this, this, this place is used to winning. They got national championship numbers on the wall with space for more. And, you know, the expectations are really, really exceptional here. And do you feel the weight of

[A]

it, the weight of the urgency?

[B]

I do, and I, I embrace it because it means that I'm someplace that matters.

[A]

That's. That's a, that's a good way to

[B]

put it, you know? Yeah, I want, I want to feel. And I told my, one of my first press conferences, I'm like, if we're getting beat up, it's my fault. I want, I want that responsibility. If our O line is getting thrown out of the club, it's my fault. Yeah, you know, so I, I embrace that responsibility. We're Going to play the biggest, most powerful football teams in the, in the world.

[A]

He will.

[B]

Yeah. So it's, it's just, you know, everything I've been training for my entire life, you know, you're, you're up against the wall, so your resil, your resiliency is going to be tested, and there's a lot of mental factors that I know that I can help with our, our team to install.

[A]

Yeah, well, I love that because you have a unique background to where you, you know, a little thing about pressure, you know, a little thing about urgency, you know, a little, you know, that's sf as. I'm not saying you didn't have it before sf, but it, I'm sure to some degree it, I mean, it has to, it's really molded you to, to know what you're capable of and know that you can, you can perform under pressure. And that type of success carries over with you to, to every aspect of your life or can, because you have, You've proven it.

[B]

The attention to detail that we were taught and we were put in so many situations where you were destined to fail in our, in our training scenarios. And even to some extent, when you, you know, your, your primary plan goes out the window, you know, and you're. And then you got like, I teach my players the pace plan. What is our primary plan? To get up and be on time in the morning. What's your alternate. What's your contingency? What's your emergency?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

You know, but I learned a lot about attention to detail and urgency and preparedness, you know, and being physically fit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To do your job, you know, and.

[A]

Well, I love it because a lot of these guys, let's just be honest, you know, and they all have goals, but the reality is a lot of these guys aren't going to go to the NFL. And you get, you get a chance in a way like no other, to some degree, not even their parents at this stage in their life, to mold young men. I mean, that's got to be a

[B]

part of your job.

[A]

That's special as well.

[B]

Well, a challenge of that is when they're 18, 17. 18, 19. And then you get some older guys who are in their twenties. Their dietary habits have been set, their, Their sleep habits, their. What they do when they're under, their downtime. Their habits have been kind of formed. So you've got to really get their attention.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To change, to make a change here or there. And it's, it is the, the challenge of a lifetime to get when you get 54 brand new guys in and then the other 50, 55 don't know who you are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's this huge hodgepodge of mixture and you got to sell yourself, sell your program. I mean, you've got to really have all your ducks in a row to get that done.

[A]

It goes all the way back to what we talked about in phase two and Robin Sage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is how do you as a leader get motivate men, motivate people to do what you want to do and, and in a certain way align their goals to where they respect you. They, they. They will do it. They. Not that not just they will do it out of. Just for, you know, force compliance. That you lead men in a way where they want to do it, they want to follow you. And those are lessons that, that you're. You're learning in the Q course and in combat on an SFODA all the way to where you're at now with as a strength and conditioning coach.

[B]

Yeah. And like, you know, going back to when I show up to the team and you know, Ron's. My team starts like, I don't care what your degrees have been in and what you've done in the past, you got to be a highly functioning senior echo. Yeah. You know, and you feel that weight of that because you're like, you know, the only thing that's at stake here is the lives of our team. Is that important to you?

[A]

Right. Yeah. Well, we, we already talked about the, the extreme rivalry of, of college sports again, which, which I love. It's what makes it so emotional and so fun to watch. But I hope after hearing you, hearing your story, that we get, we get a few more Florida Gator fans rooting for, rooting for a former Green Beret out here trying, trying to restore the, the greatness of University of Florida. I mean, what, what a great story.

[B]

I'm excited and I have confidence in our plan and it's going to be a big adventure.

[A]

One way or another, it's going to be a big adventure.

[B]

You know, and let me talk about what I think that coach Sumrall can bring. And you look at last season and a 4 and 8 football team with a lot of really good players and a lot of really good coaches. And like we talked in the, the pre meeting Today, you lose two games by one possession, you lose two other games by 10 points or less, you know, and you have 524 combined penalty yards in the entire season. How many games were lost in those 524 penalty yards.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And everybody gets them, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Indiana got penalty yards, you know, but the attention to detail that Coach Summerall can bring and I. I'm going to support him with. We'll close those gaps, and I'm not guaranteeing, you know, we're going to win this. We're going to beat these guys, but we're going to put a product on the field that is very aware.

[A]

Yeah. And I. And you guys are definitely listening to the Florida base because that's. I think that's what. That. That's what they've. They've wanted for. For years now. There's just been a. An obvious lack of attention to detail, a lack of accountability, and, and everything you guys are. Are saying is.

[B]

Is. Is.

[A]

Is addressing all of that. And I'm looking forward to the season and I'm looking forward to. To the success of the program.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

You guys are. We're definitely going forward and in the right direction. That I know. To me, the only question is how long will. How long will it take to get there? Because we're heading the right direction.

[B]

Well, I talked to Urban Meyer several weeks ago.

[A]

Never heard of him.

[B]

And he pulled out a imaginary hourglass and he goes. And he's like, the stand is. The stand is falling, my friend.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I get. You guys are getting pressure from every. Every angle. Former coaches, former players, because he lived

[B]

it and breathed it.

[A]

That he did.

[B]

That he did.

[A]

Well, I tell you what. Last and, and final question. The way we always do it. Tell me a funny story. Anywhere from. From coaching to college football to Q course to combat.

[B]

Funny story. Well, let me. Let me. I got one. So I show up, I interview for the University of Texas job. Don't know if I'm going to get it. I drive back the next day, my little lights flashing on my. My recorder, answering machine, and it's Rock. You know, hey, we decided to bring you down. Can you start this day? You know, so I'm so excited and. And I drive down there and I park and I. So excited to get inside the building. I go meet Rock. He goes, hey, go to the equipment room and pick up your gear. I already told him what size I wore and all that. So I pick up, you know, this is. This is how far it was back. It was Reebok, okay? Reebok was in the NFL then. And I had Reebok shoes. Three. Three pairs of shoes. A big stack of burnt orange clothes. And I was literally, like, just so excited. I was like, is this real? You know? Yeah, I Grew up in the shadows of, you know, Eric Metcalf and all these great Longhorns, you know, and so I'm so excited. And I got this big pile and I go into this little locker room and I change in my brand new Texas strength shirt, burnt orange, some black shorts, my brand new Adidas, Reebok shoes and Reebok socks. And I'm so fired up. And I walk out into the weight room and I got this big Bevo. The big steer's head on the wall has Bevo underneath it. And Angel Spazov, the Olympic strength coach, was just training a group of volleyball players, and they were doing a medicine ball scoop toss with these 12 pound medicine balls. And the ceiling's about 18ft high. And they're throwing these medicine balls up, and the ball's coming, you know, five feet from the ceiling. And I had never seen a Dynamax medicine ball before. These big, you know, heavily, heavily stitched, heavy duty medicine balls, okay? And they're even. They were custom burnt orange and gray, you know. Really? I was like, well, that was a pretty badass medicine ball. The girls get finished, they put the balls in order, you know, 10, 12, 14, 16, along this little rack, and angel walks away. And there's about a 10 foot by 10 foot square of turf in the middle of the weight room, of the old weight room. So I grab a. I grab about a 14 pound medicine ball and I want to try a scoop toss, okay? And I get to the power clean position and I just, with all my might, I've been on. I've been wearing my gear now for 20 minutes as a new hire.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Okay. Because Rock said I had to. You know, there's not any groups coming in until later. Scoop, toss, grab this medicine ball, and I throw it as hard as I can, and it goes through the ceiling tile, bounces around the top of the grid, hit, knocks a light fixture down, comes down like five feet down and brings a whole grid of ceiling tile down with a light fixture, industrial light fixture hanging by its wires. The white stuff is floating down around me like snow. And I'm standing there looking in shock, like, right. Evan Marcus, the first assistant at Texas. You know, Evan is six foot one at that time, 300 pounds and like a world class strong man. And, and he's. He looks like a Russian, like, like Greco Roman wrestler. He comes walking out, he looks, he looks up and he goes. Turns around and walks back into office.

[A]

You don't want any part of this.

[B]

Rock Gilligson walks out of the office And. And he looks up and looks down and looks. He surveys the mess and he goes, not a great first day, Russ.

[A]

Nowhere to go but up from there. If. If they keep you after that first

[B]

day, the second one, we are in Max gang. And it was December, North Carolina. And it was cold. Like 20 something degrees cold. We're. We're all. You know, there's a. Probably a not kosher way of saying this, but we're all, like, really close to each other, you know? You know, I know the terminology.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And we're all very tight, lean. And Wojo had mentioned him earlier. I hear a rustling outside, and Wojo is walking up in a squat position like this, and he stands in front of us, and we're. You know, it's like about. About midnight, and he has his. His. His red lens on, his light on his head, and he's looking at us like he's acting like he's a monkey, right? And he walks up to us and he starts doing like, the. The Michael Jackson thriller, you know, the Space Invaders dance. Yeah. Okay. He's like, dude, dude, dude. And it's so surreal that we're just. We got frost coming out of our mouth. We got frost over tent. And he's like, in six inches of snow, and he's just doing like, this little dance for our. For our entertainment. And the in so ncoic guy comes out, like, in a suburban, and he dries up and he's. He's like, hey, gentlemen, what are you guys all huddled in your tents for? He goes, it's. It's 94. It's like 94 degrees. And he goes, oh, that's what my son. Son who's reading my. My body temperature. He goes, really? It's like 28 degrees. He goes, y' all have fun. I'm going home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this left us out there in it, but making the best of a bad situation, making everybody laugh. It's just the kind of guys you ran into in that course. It was pretty amazing.

[A]

Yep. There's. There's always. It's always that. Really, that one guy. We're just. Nothing can get him down. And he just. He shows up in whether rain, snow, whatever it is. And like I said, you know, I said earlier, it's like, you know, quitting is contagious, but so is staying, and so is having a good time and in the worst of. Of conditions. And all it. All it takes is that one guy to do that and have a good time. And everyone's like, yeah, we can. We can have a good time here. We could have a good time anywhere.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I love it. Rusty, thanks so much for coming the show. We got a live to to get ready for.

[B]

All right, let's ride.

[A]

All right. Thank you, guys.