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- [00:00]
A
I get so many headaches every month.
- [00:02]
B
It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.
- [00:08]
A
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B
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- [01:01]
A
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B
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A
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A
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- [01:31]
B
Welcome back to another episode of the Tier one podcast. I am your host, Brent Tucker, owner of frcc. Go to frcc. Gars and Bourbon.
- [01:48]
A
And I'm Drew Tucker, email reader at first responder. Cigar, Coffee and Bourbon. Guys, I invite you to join our Patreon brought to you by Cobalt Kinetics. There you will get behind the scenes content. There's a weapons forum, there's a fitness forum. And in the weapons forum there's a Cobalt Kinetics weapons expert ready to answer all of your questions. So guys, what are you waiting for? Join the Patreon today and as always,
- [02:15]
B
this episode is brought to you by Human Performance TRT. Go to hp-trt.com use promo code tier1 and get 20% off all your testosterone and peptide needs. You can go look at the last video that I put out just a few weeks ago. In the middle of a 30 day challenge using all of our products, including Tasty Gain Creatine. So continue to watch that, watch the progress and show you that you can get in the best shape of your life. You just need a little help, Drew. Let's do it. Welcome to the Tier one podcast.
- [03:19]
A
This is amazing, dude, check this out.
- [03:28]
B
And with us today we have Ryan Hendrickson. Served in the Navy, Air Force and the Army. Almost went for the whole cycle there. Ended his career of 23 years of service with almost half of that in the Green Berets with seven special forces group, eight combat tours. Currently does D mining operations and humanitarian efforts in Ukraine. You've been in and out of there many times. And he's also an author of the book Tip of the Spear. Welcome to show Ryan.
- [04:00]
A
Hey, I appreciate you guys having me on here. It's awesome, man.
- [04:04]
B
Love, love that you came out. We got a lot to talk about. Love that you also continued your service in places like Ukraine and the things you're doing there. I can't wait to get into that. But you got that, that capability and, and specialty from your military training.
- [04:23]
A
Yeah.
- [04:23]
B
So let's, let's start there first. In fact, let's start before there.
- [04:27]
A
Okay.
- [04:28]
B
Where, where'd you grow up and how, how did you even get into military service?
- [04:34]
A
Yeah, so originally I'm from Oregon. Small town outside of Eugene, Oregon. Logging town, Lowell, Oregon. So for anybody, any Oregonians out there listening? Yeah, Go Red Devils. Lowell, Oregon. So, yeah, I grew up, grew up outside of Eugene, Oregon. 1997. You know, I'm getting ready to graduate high school, and my dad had made it pretty clear. He said, I don't, I don't really care what you do, but you can't stay here when you graduate because if I let you stay here, then, you know, you're going to be 40 some odd year old guy pumping gas, talking about your high school homecoming game, and you'll never leave this town, so you can't stay here. I highly recommend you join the military. My dad, he's a Vietnam vet, did two tours in Vietnam.
- [05:24]
B
Oh, wow.
- [05:25]
A
And, and yeah, he's just, you know, highly recommend join the military. So as every high schooler does, we take the asvab. And, well, I'll get more into the story, but to say the least, my scores were not eye popping. We'll leave it at that. So now it's recruiter roulette. And in the 90s, mid-90s, or well, I guess late 90s, 1997, the Air Force, you Know, this is downsizing of the military, the Clinton era and everything like that. And the Air Force was the first recruiter. They're like shuffling through the papers and they're like, woof, yeah, you, you may need to go down the hall and talk to the Marine recruiter. You're not really Air Force material, but wow, thanks for stopping by, buddy.
- [06:14]
B
Like, we're trying to aim higher.
- [06:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This aim high thing is. Yeah, so, yeah, sorry, no, it's not gonna work. And so the next recruiter was actually the army recruiter. And my dad was really trying to push the army because he was in the army and believe it or not, they, they didn't really need anybody they needed at that time, if I remember correctly, Patriot battery operators and, and stuff like that for the Patriot missile systems. Because at that time you have Northern and southern watch going on in Iraq and everything. But even infantry, I think it was like a year long wait. Wow. Yeah. And so I was like, okay. And then the Marine recruiter. The Marine recruiter was like one of the angriest guys I've ever seen. He just, you know, he had like that distinctive, you know, hand in the shape of a knife that was inches from your face. And he proceeded to tell me in a very unkind manner that I don't have what it takes to be a Marine. And he doesn't think I have what it takes to be a Marine, so you shouldn't even try because I don't think you're tough enough. And I was like, okay, well, thank you for letting me know you saved me a ton of trouble. Like, you're probably a big teddy bear underneath all that muscle and, you know, chewing tobacco that you're spitting in my face while you're, you know, unpleasantly letting me know I don't have what it takes. So I was like, all right, cool. So the Navy recruiter. So the Navy recruiter was kind of like that guy that sits outside of a pawn shop, toothpick in his mouth, flipping a quarter, and he's waiting for you to go in the pawn shop to pawn something off because you really need the money, right? And then you come out defeated because the pawn shops, like, no, that's a piece of junk. And he's like, hey, you know, you. I got something for you. Yeah, you know, you want to, you want to travel the world, go to exotic ports, see exotic women. 18 year old Ryan Hendrickson, like, yes, yes, I do. He said, hey, have you ever seen Top Gun with Tom Cruise or Navy SEALS with Charlie Sheen. Yeah. He goes, that's the Navy. I was like, oh, man. Like, where do I sign up?
- [08:23]
B
Yeah.
- [08:24]
A
Like, I'm gonna fly F14 Tomcats and be a Navy Seal as an E1.
- [08:28]
B
Yeah.
- [08:28]
A
I was like, this is amazing. Like, best kept secret in the military.
- [08:32]
B
We got a salesman on our hands here.
- [08:35]
A
Didn't quite, didn't quite work out that way.
- [08:38]
B
No, no. Both of those take. Require a, a lot of, of trading with. But he's not wrong. He's not wrong. That is a part of the Navy
- [08:49]
A
with ASVAB scores a bit better than mine. Just.
- [08:53]
B
Just not the part of the Navy he's going to offer you.
- [08:55]
A
Yeah. So. But I did, I did exactly. You know what my dad was saying? He said, join the military, go see the world, get experience, grow up. You're 18 years old. He's like, you're a kid still. You don't know shit. Like, join the military, get experience, grow up, serve your country, Give your country four years of your life, then come back and figure out what you want to do with your life.
- [09:18]
B
It's not bad advice.
- [09:19]
A
Yep. And so I joined the Navy and I was a bosun's mate in the Navy. So basically a deckhand. And I was on, I did west or I did a Westpac. So Bremerton, Washington to the Persian Gulf and a Med cruise, Norfolk, Virginia to the Persian Gulf. So I circled the globe on a ship and, and yeah, I, I mean I saw the world like my dad said and you know, I mean, two ships commissioned in the 60s. It was, it was rough going, you know, 40, 40 some odd year old Ryan Hendrickson could never do it again. But 18 year old Ryan Hendrickson make it happen. I made it happen. And I did, I, I got the experiences that he said and, you know, I experienced the world and, and I got out of, you know, the state of Oregon and just, and really broadened my horizons over those four years. And exactly what he wanted for me is what, is what came out of my time in the Navy. And it was amazing.
- [10:15]
B
I know the, the special operation stories is what everyone wants to hear and they'll, and they'll, they'll get a dose of that. But at the end of the day, like, I think everyday military life is still intriguing. And it's intriguing to me, I guess as well, because I didn't, I didn't get to experience that. So I have no idea what, what that is, especially with what you were talking about there. When you're, when you're a deckhand on the Navy Traveling the world. When you're underway, what is, what is day to day life like?
- [10:48]
A
It's tough. I mean, I, you know, for, for the Navy listeners out there, they'll know, they'll know what a needle gun is and primer and haze gray underway paint and, and just all the maintenance of a ship because without bosun's mates, the, you know, the, basically the, the grunt job of the Navy, Well, I guess of the ship, of the fleet, the naval fleet, you're not operational. You have to have those grunts on, on board a ship. And I mean, you do, you work hard and so your days are long and then you have, you know, your, you have your watches or your, or your different duty positions. So one could be like the helm where you're actually steering the ship, the Lee helm where you're controlling that. You, you could be on port lookout, starboard lookout, aft lookout, you know, just all this other stuff, which is all extremely important because it keeps, you know, you know, you're looking for obstacles that are out there, threats that are out there, and it's, it's just, it's a very thankless job and that a ship would not be able to operate without. And again, I'll just say the grunts of the fleet. And so although, I mean, you get work like a dog, it is definitely one of the most necessary jobs. In my humble opinion, it's one of the most necessary jobs in the fleet is to have those grunts that are doing that job, maintaining the ship and everything like that. And so it was extremely important. Nothing sexy. But the ship's not moving without you.
- [12:22]
B
So same standard of what I think, what most people would think about. You just have that, that little bunk that's.
- [12:30]
A
And that, that coffin rack.
- [12:32]
B
Yeah, a little coffin ride.
- [12:33]
A
And that's.
- [12:33]
B
Oh, yeah, that's what you sleep on. You're hot bunking as well. At this point. At least you got your own bunk.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah, you got your own bunk. You're, you're stacked three high and then. Right. And then about three foot separation and then the next guys are stacked three high and you're, I mean, it's just height living. It is super tight, super tight living.
- [12:50]
B
But at least they feed you really good food in the chow hall there. Right?
- [12:56]
A
The late 90s, not so much, not so much. Ate a lot of chicken patties, rice and green beans. But once we had a change in the administration when George Bush Jr. Took over as president, all of a sudden we're starting to get these meals that people are like, what is this.
- [13:16]
B
Really?
- [13:17]
A
Yeah. And so now there's an old saying, like if you get steak and lobster while you're underway, something bad you just got extended on the ship. Like your deployment just went from nine months to 11 months in the Persian Gulf or something like that. And so everyone's like, great, I knew it. And then the next day it's like, this is. Where's all this food coming from? Why is this food so good? What is going. We're getting set up for something here.
- [13:42]
B
Something doesn't feel right.
- [13:43]
A
Change in administration.
- [13:45]
B
Do you have a favorite port in that phase of, of your life with the Navy that you went to? Especially you grew up small town, Oregon, and you show up in this foreign port and you're like, this is crazy.
- [13:57]
A
Easily. Australia.
- [13:58]
B
Really?
- [13:59]
A
Oh my gosh, Australia. The Aussies, I, I love them to death. It was just, it was just such a great experience. Great people. I'll. We'll keep it pg. But young, you know, single, Ryan Hex. And it was just a great, great time. I had so much fun. And even throughout my military career, working with the Aussies in Afghanistan as Green Beret and stuff like that, they're just, I just love the Aussies. They're just amazing.
- [14:27]
B
Not now. You got me thinking about it in a different sense. And I'm sure it's. It varies from country to country, but if you think about it, you're in some foreign country and this American ship rolls in and you. And it's not the first time it's rolled in. And you have to know hundreds, if not thousands of American sailors are about to descend on your town and drink and drink and drink and attempt to drink you dry and hit on all your women. So is it. Do you ever get any, like, negative pushback, like, oh, here's the United States Navy coming again. Or is it usually a pretty warm welcome?
- [15:06]
A
There were a few countries where you can kind of see like, ah, these guys. But a lot of the ports that I hit, like, we went to Romania and we were, we were some of the first. Well, let me back up. I don't know if we were some of the first, but they're just out of communism. We, you know, we have this partnership with the Romanians and helping build up their military, doing exercises in the Black Sea with their, with their navy and stuff like that. Another amazing place. But everyone was kind of like, who, who are you guys? Like, America? What are Americans doing in Romania? So it wasn't. Now I've been to ports because my first ship was in an fib. So 2, 500 marines. And so like Spain and those other countries, they're like, great. Yeah, get, you know, get, get the police spun up. Get everything. Italy, same way. They're just like, oh, man, clear out some jail space. Yeah, but, but like, a lot of the ports reminded me of present day, what Scotland is doing in Boston right now during the World Cup. So all these Scottish fans are down here, amazing people. But Boston, they're like, we can't. We don't have enough beer in the state of Massachusetts for what these guys are drinking. They're like, oh, man. We're having to do emergency orders and stuff like that. And the first thing that popped in my head, I was like, that must have been what it's like for a ship to pull into a port. Yeah, yeah.
- [16:35]
B
But, you know, just hearing you talking about it as much as hard work, it was, it seems like it was. Looks like you look back on it fondly, like, it was. I love in your life.
- [16:45]
A
I loved my time in the Navy. It was, it was hard work, but everything my dad had wanted for me to see the world, to, to grow up, to get immersed in different cultures, not only internationally, but nationally as well. I hadn't been outside of Oregon. Yeah, well, maybe Idaho, I think. But all that was happening and, you know, I was. And on top of that, I was seeing the world and everything like that. And so, no, I, I look back on my time in the Navy and it was, it was amazing. I couldn't go back and do it again right now. But, yeah, it was absolutely amazing. And, you know, my job as the bosun's mate, it just. I, I have no complaints.
- [17:24]
B
I love that you told that, that part of the story because, you know, we still have a lot of young men that, that are listening to this and, and they may be fans of special operations, but they may think to themselves, like, hey, at the end of the day, I, I don't know if that's me. And I think things like that get, get overlooked by how cool special operations is.
- [17:47]
A
Yeah.
- [17:48]
B
It's not like you have to be a Green Beret or nothing. Go. If that's not for you, you go serve the military. You will still have an amazing time. You'll make the best friends. It'll. It'll be an experience of a lifetime. Don't there. There are more things to do than, Than just special operations.
- [18:06]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I, I agree. I mean, the majority of the military is run. Is ran off of jobs other than special operations.
- [18:15]
B
And special operations couldn't do their job without the rest of the military anyway.
- [18:19]
A
Not at all.
- [18:21]
B
So what, what made you leave the navy?
- [18:23]
A
I did my four years. It was April 2001. There was just really nothing going on. I mean, we had the USS Cole get bombed. We were, when I was on the west coast, the USS Camden, which was a resupply ship, we were second ship. The Donald cook was the first on the scene. We were the second ship on the scene. So we were doing rescue and assistance teams and basically like saving the ship from sinking, saving the USS Cole from sinking. So bucket brigades and just all kinds of other stuff. And then it went to. Excuse me, sorry. It went to recovery operations, which majority of the recovery operations were done by divers that had a. One of the worst jobs I think I could ever imagine, and that was pulling pieces of United States of American sailors out of the wreckage underwater. And the chow hall part that got hit. And so, you know, I had that experience. But April 2001, there just. There wasn't a lot going on. And so I wanted to, you know, play civilian Ryan and see if I could make it work.
- [19:32]
B
It's. It's kind of crazy that you were there for that. And I have to imagine, like, in this sense, when you're, when you're floating around the world on a u. S. Navy ship, you have to have this sense of, we're the baddest navy in the world, because we are.
- [19:55]
A
Yep.
- [19:55]
B
And we're untouchable. Like, nothing happens to us. Like we, we do. We're the ones capable of doing bad things to everyone else.
- [20:03]
A
Yeah.
- [20:03]
B
And then to have the USS coal bombing happen and be like, actually, we, we. We are vulnerable and something can happen to us as a young man has to rock your world to some degree to be in the vicinity of that and see that.
- [20:17]
A
Yeah. I mean, to this day, there's certain smells from the coal. There's. Because your senses, like what you smell, what you taste, what you see and stuff like that. And I could taste the diesel fuel in the air. You can smell the bodies that have been underwater for. For that amount of time, you can see. And so there's certain. I don't like to call it triggers because triggers are bad words, but there's certain things that'll bring me back to the coal just through my senses. And, you know, I don't have post traumatic stress from the cold or anything like that, because I understand the enemy has a vote in war. Even as a young sailor. I do understand because I grew up wrestling. Not a good wrestler, but I Still grew up wrestling. And so your opponent has a vote.
- [21:06]
B
Yeah.
- [21:07]
A
You know, and the enemy has a vote in war. That's. That made sense to me, especially through the way my dad brought me up.
- [21:13]
B
Yeah.
- [21:14]
A
And so. And so, yeah, I understood that. But, you know, there's certain things that'll take me straight back to October 2000, when I either see, smell or taste something. Like the diesel in the air when it's like, Florida, it's super humid out, you're filling up your diesel truck, and there's certain times when it's just like, boom, you're right back on the coal again.
- [21:39]
B
So, yeah, I've said it before in this podcast, I don't think, and I'll use that word trigger, but it triggers a memory. Nothing triggers a memory as powerful as a certain smell. I'll. I can smell random garbage in. In a street in some city, and I can just close my eyes and I. And I know exactly where I was doing a walk in. In Iraq to target or somewhere in Afghanistan or somewhere. And I'm like, I've. I've smelt that exact type of trash before.
- [22:11]
A
Yeah.
- [22:12]
B
You know, and I. I agree.
- [22:13]
A
Smells the biggest one.
- [22:14]
B
Yeah. And I do. I close my eyes for a second, I let it take me back there for a second, and I go, that's cool.
- [22:20]
A
Yeah.
- [22:21]
B
And I move on with my day.
- [22:23]
A
Yeah.
- [22:23]
B
Yeah. Nothing triggers something as strong of a memory as smell does. So it's funny you bring that up.
- [22:29]
A
I agree completely. Yeah. So I don't. I don't want to diminish, like, what happened there. I mean, we had 17 heroes, 17 United States sailors that were killed on the call October 12th. Our ship was on the scene October 13th. And so I'm not diminishing it. It just. By time April 2001 came around, there just wasn't a lot going on in the world. And so I, you know, I'd served my country, and now I want to see, you know, what else is out there, you know, what can I do? So, you know, I jumped around civilian jobs for a little bit.
- [23:02]
B
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- [23:57]
A
I, you know, I got married at a very, very young age. And, and then, you know, 911 happens and you know, I'm watching unfold. I remember as, I remember as the towers were being struck, I was driving by Fort Lewis and they had i5 shut down completely the entire base. And I'd never seen anything like that before. So it was not a training exercise because you won't shut down i5. It was just, it was, it was very strange. I get home and my ex wife, she's like, hey, you need to turn on the TV now. And so I turn on TV and I'm just watching, you know, everything unfold. Well, correction, I'm watching reruns of that morning. Yep, the aftermath. And so it was like, oh, no. So this, okay, so this just happened, you know, the, you know, the world, United States and the world is, is changed forever.
- [24:58]
B
Yeah.
- [24:58]
A
Now, I didn't know what was going to be the response to this. I didn't know if we were going to shoot a whole bunch of tomahawks into a country and say, don't ever do that again or what. Because we've done that before. If we remember certain bombings in Africa and marine barracks and stuff like that. And I didn't know what our response was going to be. So I wasn't running to the recruiting office. And so it was about 2002 that my wife and I, you know, I was like, hey, I want to get back in the military. There's I gotta do something. And so December 2002, we, you know, we talked back and forth. She was getting out of the army, she had done her time in the army and she'd made it pretty clear she didn't want to be a army spouse. So I was like, okay, yeah, fair enough. So we agreed upon the Air Force and I had to retake the asvab
- [25:56]
B
but do better the second time.
- [25:57]
A
I did, I did, I did, you know, when I was, when I was grown up and.
- [26:02]
B
Right.
- [26:02]
A
You know. Well, I can't say growing up, but I was a little bit more mature. Yeah, did better on the asvab. And so I joined the Air Force and job I did in the Air Force was I was an ammo troop which basically what an ammo troop does is you deliver bombs to the flight line. They get loaded up on aircraft and the aircraft goes out and they do great things for God and country. And it was very, it was a very satisfying job because I was, I was deployed once to Qatar in response to the full scale invasion of Iraq.
- [26:37]
B
Okay.
- [26:38]
A
Well I say full scale the invasion of Iraq and also supporting operations in Afghanistan. And then I was also in Iraq once in, at Kirkuk. Kirkuk Air Base up north.
- [26:49]
B
Yep.
- [26:50]
A
And it was, it was a very rewarding job because during that timeframe in the war, you know, 2004, 2005 or. Yeah, 2004, 2005, aircraft would leave and they would come back Winchester or emptied. So we were, you know, our bombs. And again you take ownership over your job. I got it. They're the taxpayer bombs, they're the United States government bombs. But those are my bombs, Those are my 250 pounders, those are my 500 pounders, those are my thousand pound JDAMs for gunships. You know, those are our 105 rounds and all this other stuff. They were saving lives on the battlefield. And so I took, I had a lot of pride in the job that I did.
- [27:34]
B
I love that you took ownership in that and what some people would consider maybe you know, a small job because the, the, the pilot's going to get, you know, a lot of credit for, for dropping them. But guess what? The pilot's not loading the bombs and the missiles on his, on his plane.
- [27:49]
A
Yeah.
- [27:49]
B
And again it goes back to what we said earlier. Someone has, has to do that.
- [27:54]
A
Yeah.
- [27:54]
B
Or, or it doesn't, or it doesn't get done. So join the military, do something. It, it does matter and that is cool. Especially in that time frame when you know this bomb I'm attaching, you know, to this aircraft, when it comes back, it's not on there. Bad, bad people just paid the price. And you're a part of that.
- [28:13]
A
Yeah. And it was extremely fulfilling. But there was two big things happening in my life at the time. The first big thing happened in my life is my marriage was about over and completely self induced. She is an amazing woman who stuck around way too long with a horrible, horrible human being, which was me.
- [28:38]
B
So
- [28:40]
A
nothing at all against her. She is extremely tough. But she stuck it out too long. Yeah. She just too tough and didn't know how to say or when it Was done. It was done. So let me get that out of the way first. So marriage on the rocks and basically about over. And then when I was in Kirkuk, there was an Oda there. And, you know, you. You know, when the guys with beards walk by and, you know, everyone that's at the smoke pit or whatever, you know, because that's where you all congregate. Yeah. And they're. They walk by and everyone's like, yeah, you know, suck your chest. You know, suck your stomach in a little bit. Like, yeah, we're cool. You know, and then they walk by. You know what I heard about those. Oh, no, I heard this. No. Yeah, they do. You know.
- [29:26]
B
Right.
- [29:26]
A
And so one thing that's, you know, kind of been a part of my life, you know, since. Since high school, was going to the gym. I. I enjoy the gym. And. And so I'm in the gym, working out this one day, and this, you know, the bearded one, it walks up and he's like, hey, can I get a spot? And I was like, oh, my God. They speak. You know, because you don't. You don't know what you don't know.
- [29:50]
B
Right.
- [29:51]
A
And. And so I was just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, we end up having this huge conversation at the gym, and. And he was like, yeah, man, there's another guy, he's in Iraq right now as well. But he used to be in the Air Force. He transferred over to go through. You know, to go through the pipeline. It's called 18X Ray. I was like, wow, that sounds cool. Kind of like Cobra Commander, kind of cool, you know, thing. And so that planted the seed in my head. And so although my job in the Air Force was extremely fulfilling, there was something else that I wanted to do it, but I didn't quite know what it was.
- [30:29]
B
Yeah.
- [30:30]
A
And so I'll go back to the very beginning before I joined the military. My dad gave me this. He told me this story, and it stuck with me my entire life. But he said, there's. There's two old men sitting on their rocking chairs, and they're waiting on death. They're going to die. And he said, the first old man, he's miserable because he let life pass him by. He never took a chance. He never risked anything. He never did anything he could fail at. He lived in his comfort bubble, and from an outsider looking in, he looked like he had everything together. Nice house, nice family, nice. All this other stuff. But he was miserable. He was destroyed inside because he never did anything that he was uncomfortable with. That he could possibly fail at. He never risked anything. He never failed. And so he lived the life of, of, of basically being bubble wrapped.
- [31:26]
B
Yeah.
- [31:27]
A
Only doing what he know he, or what he, what he was comfortable with. And he was miserable and he was dying. A miserable old man with a mind filled with I wish I would haves. And then he said, there's a second old man. And he said, he's happy, he's content. He's sitting on his porch, you know, he's drinking a beer probably, and he's looking back on everything he did in his life. And he said, this old man, he's failed multiple times. He succeeded some. He's. He's fallen flat on his face. He's done everything there possibly was to do for him. Whether he, whether he succeeded, whether he failed. It didn't matter whether it hurt, whether it was, whether it was amazing. He did it. And he was sitting there looking back on all of his, you know, memories, and he was content and he was happy. And he said, every man is going to have their rocking chair moment sometime in their life. You will be forced to look back on the life that you lived or you did not live. That's up to you. And he said, which old man do you want to be? And I was. And so now fast forward. I'm going through a divorce and I'm going to the, we'll call it the S1 office for, for the air Force, maybe personnel office or something like that. And I'm changing my, my status from married to single because you lose pay and stuff like that. And so I'm changing the status over. And I see this poster on the wall and it has this guy in uniform and half of it is air Force dress blues and the other half is army class A's. And it said blue to green. Go blue to green. See your recruiter today. And I was like, huh, I wonder what that is. And so I went and I talked to the personnel office. They're like, yeah, yeah, if you're in an overman career field in the air Force, you can transfer directly over to the army. It's like, really? They're like, yeah, let's, we can what, you know, what's your job? I told them, you know, and they're like, yeah, it's an overman career field. You, you know, you can transfer over the army. So they set me up with a recruiter and I started going through, you know, the recruiter, and he's like, well, what do you want to do? I don't know. He said, you can transfer over directly as an ammo troop in the army because we have the equivalent of that.
- [33:46]
B
Okay.
- [33:48]
A
He's like, but there's also a lot of other jobs. You have infantry, you know, you have all these things. 18x Ray that he brushed over really quickly. And I was like, whoa, back to Iraq, I was like, 18x Ray, what's that? He goes, well, it's, it's a Special Forces contract. You basically, you know, you come in for Special Forces and if you don't make it, then you go into infantry. And so my mind, I was, I wanted to go into infantry and I was like, so if you don't make it, you go into infantry. It's like, so I sit on it for, you know, about a week where I'm just like, what? Like what do I want to do? This is just bothering me. I said, I have no credentials to go into Special Forces. Yeah, I grew up as a country boy, but you know, I was a bosons mate in the Navy and I was a ammo troop in the Air Force and Special Forces. What I heard, it's all like rangers and all these guys that deserve to be there. I was like, there's no way. So I start to talk myself out of it before I even started self doubt and all this other stuff. And then that conversation came up that I had with my dad and I knew that when I get to my time that I'm sitting on my rocking chair looking back on what I did and did not do and the chances I took and did not take,
- [35:12]
B
I
- [35:13]
A
knew I would regret not trying. And worst case scenario in my mind was like, when I fail, I'm gonna go to infantry anyways. Hopefully I can get Fort Lewis. And then, you know, at least I tried, right? But you know, I'm going through a nat, not a nasty divorce. It was nasty because of me and I didn't make it nasty on her. I was beating myself up for the man that I was that, you know, for the stuff that I put her through. And so my mind, I was like, I need to dive into something that takes me over completely. No time to think, no time to dwell, no time to have a pity party. All this stuff. I need to dive into something. And so what I'm understanding with this X ray course is I'm going to go through infantry basic, AIT jump school and then pre selection selection and if you get selected, the Q course. And I was like, that's. And it's, you know, it's over with all the, with the infantry and jump and all that. It's about a two year process. I was like, yeah, I'm not going to be that old man and I'm going to give it everything I have and I'm probably not going to make it because I'm not qualified, but I will know that I gave it everything I had. I had nothing left. And I will be happy with that because not everybody can be in Special Forces or else everybody would be.
- [36:31]
B
Exactly. That's just a fact.
- [36:33]
A
Yeah. And so it wouldn't be special. Yeah. And so I did. I signed up for the 18x ray program and it was within a week I was at MEPs. And from MEPs, I was on my way to the Warrior Transition course in New Mexico and then to Fort Benning, and I started. I started my process.
- [36:55]
B
And so now did you have to go all the way through basic training from day one or did you get inserted right into. Is it OSA or AIT for the.
- [37:06]
A
There's a funny thing that happened there. So when, you know, they're yelling at everybody to get off the bus and line up and all this other stuff like that. I had played the game before and I'm telling, you know, I'm telling the different recruits that are just freaking out, you know, you know, bag dumping here, and they're grabbing all their shit that they can. I was like, hey, guys, it's going to be fine. Just calm down, we're good. And so I'm following what all of the basic recruits are doing. Didn't realize or maybe brushed over that there's a place where prior service guys go. And so I get going through infantry basic and the drill sergeant comes up to me and he's like, bro, you're Ryan Henry. He's like, dude, what are you doing here? And I was like, yeah, I'm going through basic training.
- [37:50]
B
Yeah.
- [37:51]
A
He's like, no, no, no, no, no. You're supposed to be in hold right now waiting on ait, Advanced Infantry Training. And I was like, yeah, but I don't want to do that. I really want to. I need this. I really want to go through this. You know, I don't want to get into why I need it, but I really need this. I need just to left, right, left, turn food into shit and train. I don't need anything else. And so they had cleared out, like the storage closet where they put my cot. Yeah. And so I stayed in there. And it was this drill sergeant's. It was the best thing that ever happened to this drill sergeant because after about the first week, he was going home at night, and I was watching everybody.
- [38:34]
B
Yeah.
- [38:34]
A
Yeah.
- [38:35]
B
That's awesome.
- [38:35]
A
And then ait and the only school that I hated with every fiber of my being that I was like, this is not for me was airborne school. I did not know I was that scared of heights. I had no idea, really. Zero idea. Like puking, scared of heights.
- [38:57]
B
That's a tough time to find out.
- [38:58]
A
Yes, it is. Very tough. And I was like, this is not for me. I hate all of this. Physically. No, Easy. But I was like, you want me to do what? I was like, why would I jump out of this land and I'll get off the plane just fine, and we can do whatever we need to do.
- [39:16]
B
Right. Seems pretty efficient.
- [39:19]
A
And that was the one time that I was like, I don't know if I'm cut out for this, because they were like special Forces jumps all the time. And I was like, I. I hate jumping. Even on an oda, they would. You know, I had this. You know, they were like, oh, there's Bambi in his knees again. You know, because I was just. I couldn't help it. There's just. There was something that height that, you know, you want now heights. When I can grab onto something and you're not asking me to jump from that. I can do that.
- [39:47]
B
Right.
- [39:47]
A
I don't enjoy looking down because I get the wobbles and stuff like that, but I can do that. But you're telling me that you want me to jump out of this. Not to mention I'm £210, and so. And, you know, you're literally throwing a sack of potatoes on the ground.
- [40:04]
B
Yeah.
- [40:05]
A
And I mean, PLF is. It works. I can tell you, because I've eaten, I've burned in multiple times. They're like, turn into the wind. I'm like, closing eyes and just burning in. And they're like, how are you alive? I don't know. And like, pack your rock and get. You know, get back to the. Yeah, but I hated it.
- [40:22]
B
I. I didn't hate it to. To that degree. That's. That's another level. But I. I was never comfortable with static line jumping either. And I had some Bambi legs. My. My very first jump in an airborne school, and a little less on my second, a little less than my third. But I. I never. I don't know if I ever had a comfortable static line jump.
- [40:45]
A
And I'm a jump master. Yeah. It's insane because they're like, you need this to make rank. And I was Like, I hate this,
- [40:53]
B
but that's, but you know not to, you're not going to like the way I phrase this because you're a humble man. But that's what courage is. Courage is doing something that you want to do. There's, there's, there's nothing, there's nothing about that. It's doing something that you're deathly afraid to do that you don't want to do, but you do it anyway and it doesn't matter. And that, that goes into combat too. I worked with some wild men. That was it courageous what they did? I'm not sure. Because if you don't know the danger that you just put yourself in and you're not, you're not scared to do it, then I don't know if it's that courageous. Yeah, you weren't even fully aware of how dangerous was. So, so that's, that's what I mean by, you know, courage comes from, you know, whether it be the battlefield or jumping an airplane that you don't want to or going, going into a job that you know you should do. So when you're an old man, you don't regret it, but you know it's going to be the hard path. Yeah, that's courage. If you've ever been to any of my tactical training classes, then you know how adamant I am about the use of white light and the importance of a quality high powered tactical light. That's why I use cloud defensive tac lights. You can't hit what you can't see and neither can the bad guys. Clearly identify your target and simultaneously overwhelm his vision with hundreds and even thousands of lumens. Get serious about defending yourself and your family. Go to clouddefensive.com and use promo code tier one to get 30% off your order. That's right, 30%. You won't find a better light than this and you won't find a better deal than this.
- [42:37]
A
The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure. Right now, get up to 45% off site wide, plus get a free professional measure. @blinds.com rules and restrictions apply. Well, from jump number one to probably jump 100. My legs were still shaking like crazy. It never got easy for me. Yeah, it never got easy for me.
- [43:19]
B
Did you have to go through. I'm assuming you did, because you're an 18x ray through the SOP C program.
- [43:26]
A
Yes.
- [43:26]
B
Which is the pre selection.
- [43:28]
A
The X ray. The X ray preparation course.
- [43:30]
B
Correct. Did that. They may have. They may have changed the. The name of it.
- [43:33]
A
No. SOP C Sounds familiar.
- [43:35]
B
Okay, yeah, yeah. To me, that was. That was harder than selection itself.
- [43:38]
A
It was way harder. Oh, my Lord.
- [43:41]
B
I.
- [43:42]
A
It was way harder.
- [43:43]
B
I hate it when they do that. It's a spe. You have to correct me if you can remember a special operations preparational and condition course or something like that.
- [43:51]
A
It's something like that. And AKA beat down.
- [43:55]
B
It's. I hate it when, whether it be pre Ranger, whether it be pre dive or sopsy, when they make the pre course harder than the actual course, it irritates me because they're gonna, they're gonna talk about how successful they are. Like if, you know, when you graduate this course, we have a 95 success rate. Well, yeah, because you made it harder than the actual course. How many guys did you keep from. That could have made the actual course, but they never got out of the pre course because you made it harder than the actual course?
- [44:25]
A
That's a very good point.
- [44:26]
B
It always, it always irritated me.
- [44:28]
A
But yeah, we had some. We had some studs that got hurt in the pre course and that was it.
- [44:32]
B
They get hurt. I know there's another one. How. How'd you do in selection?
- [44:37]
A
Selection was great. I like you. Obviously you don't get a lot of sleep, but it wasn't as brutal and violent as the prep course. Yeah, the prep course.
- [44:49]
B
And just PT all day. You rough?
- [44:52]
A
Yeah.
- [44:53]
B
You land nav all day.
- [44:54]
A
Let me see how to say this the right way. The prep course had a lot of guys there. Okay. The prep course had a lot of Green Berets as instructors that would much rather have been in Afghanistan with their ODAs.
- [45:10]
B
Right.
- [45:10]
A
I'll put it to you that way.
- [45:11]
B
Yeah.
- [45:12]
A
And they were all translates. They were already battle hardened and they did not want any weakness coming to the regiment at all. And they were going to beat you or hurt you to make sure if the people that were left standing because so we are. We are the masters of unconventional warfare. There's great shooters all over the world. There's, you know, there's great guys at cqb, Anti terror, all this stuff like that. But in my opinion, Special Forces, Green Berets are the best at unconventional warfare. Train, advise, assist force, multiply. When I went through, it was, who can carry hundreds of pounds on their back without breaking for long distances and just get the crap beat out of them and keep coming back and asking for more? And I was like, huh, this is okay.
- [46:02]
B
Yeah, yeah. The. This is gonna sound like a backhanded compliment, but it's not. But I'm not completely surprised that you had a fun time at selection because you.
- [46:12]
A
I did.
- [46:13]
B
You look. You look like you were made for rucking.
- [46:14]
A
Yeah. Like, not running?
- [46:16]
B
Not.
- [46:17]
A
No, I.
- [46:18]
B
That's why I prefer because when you tell someone they're good at rucking, it's kind of assumed that they're probably not very good at running.
- [46:24]
A
It's really, it's.
- [46:25]
B
Some people do it, but it's not always easy to be good at both.
- [46:28]
A
No.
- [46:29]
B
And. But if you can ruck, you can go far in special operations.
- [46:33]
A
Yep. I was always getting extra attention on the runs after the runs would finish. For some reason, I think they felt my upper body needed to be built up more through hundreds of push ups for being so slow. Rucks. No, I could be back. I could be back drinking Gatorade, eating a banana while everyone's still coming in. So, yeah, I could rock. But running, No, I got a lot of extra attention during runs.
- [46:59]
B
What. What MOS did they give you in the 18 series? What?
- [47:03]
A
18 Charlie.
- [47:04]
B
18 Charlie. And for the people, tell them what 18 Charlie is.
- [47:07]
A
So this is an engineer. And let me tell you the, the army recruiting poster example of the 18 Charlie or Special Forces engineer demolitions. All you do is blow stuff up and it's great and it's loud and it's awesome. Except for they don't tell you about Stateside 18 Charlie tell you about Henry seats, do they? Where you are a master of inventories and everything on that ODA falls on your head because the captain is the. The OD or the, the team leader.
- [47:41]
B
Yeah.
- [47:41]
A
He's like, hey, all right, Inventory time. And for some reason we love inventory. Stateside, there's an inventory to prayer or prepare for an inventory to prepare for an inventory. Yeah. Oh, man. So that's not on a poster.
- [47:55]
B
It's. It's so ironic because the 18 Charlie is a cool job. It really is.
- [48:00]
A
It is.
- [48:00]
B
You know, on the engineering aspect of it, the reverse engineering aspect of it, with blowing things up, you do some cool stuff.
- [48:08]
A
Yeah.
- [48:08]
B
But man, they don't, they don't say about the hand receipt side of it. And you're every Everything in ODA owns, the officer may be signed for, but you're responsible for it.
- [48:19]
A
Absolutely.
- [48:19]
B
Seats.
- [48:20]
A
Yep. And so.
- [48:21]
B
And when an ODA loads out to go to go to a country. Oh, that's a process. When you're coming back. That's a process. And it falls on the 18 charge.
- [48:30]
A
You become a master at palletizing.
- [48:32]
B
Palletizing.
- [48:33]
A
Yeah, yeah. You become an absolute master at it. Because there is an art to the pallet nets.
- [48:39]
B
Yeah.
- [48:39]
A
People don't realize it like, like those, those cargo nets. There's an art to it.
- [48:43]
B
Yeah.
- [48:44]
A
And I, Yeah, once you become a master of that, like everybody like, hey man, hey, can you come over here and help me out? Got. Yeah, here. This is strange. I don't know how we just got this bottle, you know, of, of. Of red label, you know. Here you go, man. Can you come help us out with these nets? Coming in and leaving. It always revolved around the cargo nets for some reason. And then, you know, your ISE 90s and all that. So.
- [49:07]
B
Did you recycle anything in the Q course?
- [49:09]
A
No.
- [49:10]
B
Good.
- [49:10]
A
I did not. The Q course for me. So again, I was at a point in my life where I needed something to completely bury myself into to get my mind off of everything else. And so for me, the Q course, it, it was physically hard and it was mentally hard, but it was easy for me. And the reason why I say that is this. So although physically it was extremely tough, there was, there was times when I was like, there is no way the human body can, can carry this amount of weight. There's a bunch of special operation programs in the US But I think Special Forces really revolves around a ton of weight on your back and carrying heavy, heavy shit over long distances. But for me, the reason why it was simple is because the instructors, you know, sut, like, this is how you put in a L shaped ambush. Okay, cool. This is how you do a raid. This is how you do this. This is how, you know, you land nav. This is, you know, all this stuff that was my first time. So I didn't have any bad habits that I had to undo and relearn the way they wanted me to do it.
- [50:29]
B
Right, exactly.
- [50:30]
A
And so for me, just being this sponge, it was like, okay, well if this is how you say we do this how I do it. And so it, you know, had. Did I fail evolutions and then pass on the second time? Yes, I had a few of those. But for me it was, was relatively simple because it was like, all right, well, you're telling Me, this is how you do it. So this is how I'm going to do it. And that, that's what it's about. And then once you start to get into that gray area, can you think outside the box? Team week in selection, stuff like that. Can you think outside the box? Can you, can you adapt and overcome and still accomplish the mission regard, you know, with this little bit of stuff, you got a telephone pole, some ratchet straps, you know what I'm saying? Can you do it? Well, my dad had been raising me that, that, that exact way my entire life. He's like, figure it out. This is all you have. Figure out how to make it work. And so, you know, that creative side of your brain really gets worked when you're forced to do that from a child all the way up. And so I really enjoyed that part and I enjoyed the fact that it was like, oh, you're asking me how I want to do it? Okay, yeah, yeah, well, this is what I would do. They're like, well then prove it. Yeah, okay, yeah, I'll prove it. Now all of a sudden it's not. You're taking direct orders. It was like, how would you accomplish this evolution? Well, I would do X, Y and Z. Prove it. Okay, all right. You have this amount of time to go an undetermined amount of distance and you have to move this cargo or whatever it is, you know, over to here, the down pilots, 500 pound sandbags, stuff like that. And for me, I, I loved it because you were letting me be creative and to come up with what I thought would work or wouldn't work. And, and it wasn't, you know, because my brain was like, well, they asked me what I would do. So I don't need to go by what I think they want me to do. I'm just going to go by what I would do. And you know, the stuff that we've learned so far, knots or whatever it is, and then I'm going to make it happen because they literally just asked me that. Don't think into it too much, guys. And so going through the Q course as a borderline dumbass actually kind of helped me out a lot because I didn't look into things too much. The whiteboard says this, I'll give you a prime example. So we were doing the trek at the end of selection, you have the 30 mile whatever it is, and as we're coming towards the end and you know, it's, it's early morning, you see the stadium light, not stadium lights, but the big Lights. And you got. And, you know, there's Gatorade and bananas and all this stuff like that. And you're like, I can do this. And all of a sudden you just get this adrenaline, and you're just all you pushing through it, and you're like, we're almost there. We're almost there. And you get there, and your gps, you know, little. Little tracker that's in your boot laces, you can hear it chime. And then you look at the whiteboard and it says, keep moving. Tons of people quit.
- [53:29]
B
Yeah.
- [53:30]
A
Because that was their end point.
- [53:32]
B
Yep.
- [53:33]
A
But for me, I was like, oh, okay. Keep moving. And then quarter mile, half a mile down the road, the trucks pick us up. They just wanted to see who would keep moving.
- [53:41]
B
Yeah.
- [53:42]
A
And so for me, again, it was pretty. It was pretty simple because I didn't think through things too much. It was just like, well. Well, yeah, this is what you asked. And you asked me how I would do it, so this is how I did it. Or the whiteboard said this. So that's what I did. You said, bring only these items. And I couldn't believe how guys would get caught up on. Well, yeah, but obviously you would want to bring this, too, because this will help with this, this, and this. I mean, you would bring this, too. And I was like, no. It literally says these five items only overcomplicate it. Don't over complicate it. Yeah, so I would just bring these five items. And that's the thing is guys would over complicate it when in selection, they weren't looking for that. You can overcomplicate things later on. Right now, we want to know, can you work in this environment? Can you do what you're told? Can you adapt to situations? Are you trainable? And. Yeah. Are you. Are you. Are you mentally tough?
- [54:42]
B
And in this job, can you operate in the unknown? Yeah, it's. It's powerful. There's people who just have to have an answer to everything before they're comfortable enough to. To move on. And sometimes you got what you got. You make the best decisions you have with the information you have, and you'll figure out the rest later.
- [55:01]
A
Yeah. Because how many missions in Afghanistan don't go the way that you had practiced or that you had. You know, you've done your con op, you're doing all your rehearsals. It's going to go down like this, and then all of a sudden, the mission is completely, you know, either you're dropped somewhere where you weren't supposed to be dropped due to the threat in the area or now all of a sudden, well, okay, satellite imagery didn't pick up this, this and this. Now we got to, you know, adapt to this and overcome. And I mean, it was great to see who can adapt to those environments when. When it matters.
- [55:34]
B
The 18 Charlie on my first team told me so I'll just never forget Brent, you know, what a plan is. And I just graduated the Q course, and he was a senior 18 Charlie, so I was looking to impress him by giving, like, the textbook answer of a plan. So I'm thinking of it, I'm thinking of it. And he goes, it's just a list of things that aren't going to happen when you hit the ground.
- [55:52]
A
Yep.
- [55:53]
B
And. And it's that, that, that, that little saying was just. Couldn't have been any more truer.
- [55:59]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [56:00]
B
The, the longer I spent in Special Operations.
- [56:04]
A
Yeah.
- [56:05]
B
So you ended up going to seventh group, right?
- [56:07]
A
I did.
- [56:08]
B
So each group has a area of responsibility. And what is seventh groups?
- [56:13]
A
So ours is South Central America. Supposedly. I spent more time in Afghanistan than South Central America.
- [56:19]
B
But, and, and at the time, really, for the most part of the war, 3rd and 7th rotated in and out of Afghanistan. Of course, a lot of other groups.
- [56:29]
A
Yeah.
- [56:30]
B
Went in there as well. But primarily 3rd and 7th pretty much owned Afghanistan. 5th and 10th went in and out of Iraq. Yep. So it's no surprise you got a lot of time in Afghanistan. Eight. Eight combat tours.
- [56:44]
A
Yes.
- [56:44]
B
In Afghanistan. What was, what was your first tour like? Because you, you, you've been in the military for, you know, a little bit. It's not like you were, you were an 18 or X ray, but not right off the street. So you'd spend some time in the military. You wanted to do something more. And after all this time, here you are in Afghanistan on an oda.
- [57:04]
A
Yep.
- [57:04]
B
And you. And you get that opportunity. What was that like for you?
- [57:08]
A
So when I, when I first, you know, walked across the street at Bragg to seventh Group. Because at that time, seventh group is still at Bragg.
- [57:14]
B
Yep.
- [57:15]
A
Before the BRAC movement to Eglin for the listeners. And so walking across the street and I'm checking in and the company, I went to Alpha Company, 2nd Battalion, and the company had just got back from Afghanistan. And so I'm like, okay, you know, I don't know what all this entails, but I'm assuming guys are going to be, you know, taking some leave, some, you know, R and R and all this other stuff. And then within a couple weeks, we get the order that our company's heading back to Afghanistan because of the surge. This is Obama administration and we're doing a surge in Afghanistan. And for a lot of listeners, basically 2010 is when we decided like, okay, we're going to do a major assault on Afghanistan with US Ground forces. We're going to surge everybody in here to try and push the Taliban out through kinetic means. And also continuing to do VSO, or village Stability Operations. But that's more of the special operations world there. So I'm on an ODA that just got back from Afghanistan. We just got the warno. We're going back to Afghanistan. And they're, you know, all professional, but they're like, are you kidding me? Like, I, like, I just literally got home, right? And now we're getting the warno. So, you know, we start the workups and everything like that. You go to pre mission training, and I'm, I'm loving it. I'm like, wow, you know, this is, you know, this is cool guy stuff, you know, and they're like, all right, relax, grooming standards. Like, whoa, yeah, I'm now the bearded
- [58:58]
B
guy in the gym.
- [58:58]
A
Yeah, mine's blown. And, you know, I'm just like, you know, I just, I feel, you know, until you get to the team room and they're just like, shut up, new guy. You know, and you're like, ah, crap.
- [59:10]
B
But was Kyle Morgan on, on. On the team when, when you got there?
- [59:13]
A
Kyle Morgan was on the team when I got there.
- [59:16]
B
Was he?
- [59:16]
A
Yeah, he's. He's a stud. He. Actually, we had a conversation when I first got there, and this is many tbis ago for him, so. But we had a conversation when I first got there because the team was, you know, it was very. It was a dive team and, and no, I am not a diver, but it was a dive team and they were beefing up the team for this Afghanistan deployment. And so Kyle was there and new guys were treated as new guys should be, you know. Yeah, people can take that for what it's worth. But, you know, I also came in the military in the 90s where things that would happen then, they now consider hazing now. But it was just part of the culture in the military. But the team was, you know, pretty, pretty. What's the word I'm looking for? Very. Just distant of the new guys. Because in that period of time, you haven't proven yourself in combat.
- [60:18]
B
Right.
- [60:18]
A
And so we don't know who you are. Like, are you a liability? Are you good? Oh, great. You can shoot on the range. Like, okay, that means nothing when somebody's shooting back at you, right? And so you're just kind of in your own little world where, you know, you're told, hey, ears open, eyes open, mouth shut, you need to take all this in. And you. And because this is a fire hose, it would have. It could have been a garden hose, but we're heading back to Afghanistan, so here you go. Full, full blast fire hose. And Kyle came up to me one day because I was stressing over a. Inventory. New guy on the team. They're like 18 Charlie inventory all the team's equipment, and there was stuff missing. And I was like, ah, I don't know, you know, And Kyle was like, hey, hey, dude. He's like, don't stress about this stuff. He said, all this stuff works itself out. He's like, trust me. He's like, don't stress about this stuff. He's like, I'm glad you're here. Welcome to the team, but don't stress. And. And so, yeah, that was. That was my first interaction with Kyle because he was going through multiple different courses where.
- [61:25]
B
What.
- [61:27]
A
What's the sniper course called?
- [61:28]
B
The Sodic.
- [61:29]
A
The long range interdiction or something like that.
- [61:32]
B
Sodic, yeah. Target interdiction course, which is now sip. Sick Special Forces course, but used to be called Sodic.
- [61:38]
A
Yeah, that's what I was. Yeah, the. The sisic or Sodic. So he was going through sodic at the time or getting ready for sodic. And, you know, he, you know, he. He had a whole bunch of stuff going on. And then, you know, after that, he had gone to West Virginia to do some stuff there, which led to his next career. But that's, you know, neither here nor there. But, yeah, Kyle. And so, yeah, he. Yeah, he was 18 echo on the team. He just kind of just, you know, one of those guys that, like, he could do everything. Nothing was hard for him, and nothing was like. And there was just no, like, panic. You know, it was. It was just. It was refreshing to be around because he would make it happen. But there wasn't all this stress that I would put on myself because, you know, I wanted to leave. You know, I wanted to make a good impression. I wanted people to be like, all right. And I didn't realize at that time, like, you can't make any impression at all until you've proven yourself in combat at that period of time. I'm not saying that's the way it always is, but at that period of time with a team just coming back from Afghanistan, going back to Afghanistan, make your impressions when it counts, like, do your job, keep your mouth shut, learn. But when we get to Afghanistan, you'll make your impressions there. And so, yeah, it was. I mean, we went through PMT one day. In pmt, these three black helicopters landed. I'm not talking Blackhawks, they were something else. And the Chairman, Joint Chief of Staff gets off, and so everyone lines up in formation, everything like that. And his name was Admiral Mullen. And so Admiral Mullen gets off the helicopter and he gives us this brief, hey, I'm sending you guys to a really bad area. And, you know, you guys are answering, you know, nation's call and everything like that. And me, I was like, wow, man, Chairman, Joint Chief of Staff, he must do this for everybody but the team leader or team sergeants and stuff like that. There were just like, oh, shit, this is going to be a really bad deployment. Yeah, really bad.
- [63:49]
B
Because that's not normal.
- [63:51]
A
This is not normal at all. And so that all goes by. I'm new guy and up. I was like, man, that guy seemed like a really cool dude. Like, cool. But he did, you know, it'll come into play later. But he did make a promise and that was wounded or killed. I will personally see to every one of you guys that come back from this deployment and I'll. That'll get into, you know, a couple minutes from now my injury. But yeah, finish up pre mission training and, you know, now we're on the bird, you know, C17s and we're heading to Germany, I want to say, first, and then making our way over to Bagram, then Kandahar. Then from Kandahar we, we do tactical ground. Sorry, we drove. Yeah, we drove to our fair, our firebase, which was Firebase Tice in Aruzgan province.
- [64:47]
B
Okay.
- [64:48]
A
And from Firebase Tice, we were going to be operating along the Chutu river valley, along the Helmand river, which basically separated Helmand Province or Ruzgan province. And it was all for this big mission we were building up for this big mission of a valley clearance. Because the reports that were coming in was 2000 to 2500 Taliban fighters were using the valley in order to transfer men, weapons and equipment, more importantly explosives, to conduct attacks into Kandahar, the city Kandahar. And so our first mission was taking over for a third group team. We were at this combat outpost or this cop, and it overwatched our part of the valley, Helman river and everything like that. And up the river from us, I don't know how many kilometers, maybe 1015, 20 kilometers, something like that was Firebase Cobra, if people remember old Firebase Cobra.
- [65:56]
B
I sure do.
- [65:57]
A
And so what our, what this whole thing was about was we were not only were we keeping overwatch of the valley and watching enemy movement, but we were also training up a militia force, the whole village stability operations aspect, train, advise, assist force, multiply. And so while we're doing all this over the three months before the September kickoff of the mission, we're in constant firefights, which is normal for that time because there hadn't been a lot of American presence in this valley. But in this valley there were still burnt out like BTRs and stuff like that from when the Russians were there. They got their asses handed to them in the valley and so there were still skeletons and remnants of the Russians in this same valley. And now, you know, we're here as an ODA with our militia force training them up and getting everything ready to go for this, for this big mission which eventually ended up kicking off September 11, 2010.
- [67:03]
B
Really? Yeah, yeah man, that is a bad place to be. And those, those remnants of, of of the Russians is, seems like a bad foreshadowing of, of, of things to come. It's got to play in your mind a little bit. How, how'd that end up going for you guys?
- [67:26]
A
So we kick off, we kick off the mission September and first part of the mission was getting men, weapons and equipment across the Helmand river, which again, mission on itself. Yeah, 18 Charlie's is like, you guys trained for this in the Q course, so make it happen. I was like, ah, okay. What did I have? It was a dive team. So I had Zodiacs and I had a whole bunch of styrofoam blocks and wood. So I just built ramps for the four wheelers and everything like that and everything got across, no issues at all, no four wheelers at the bottom of the helm. And I was like, man, that's great. Then we get across the river and now we're waiting on the green light to start our infill into our first target, our first objective, which was a village called Sea Pest. Yep, Sea Pest. And so this village, we had been fighting these guys for months and we were like, yep, this place is definitely, definitely littered with Taliban fighters. And as we were moving closer to this village and we were going to take down the first set of compounds, get a foot in the door before the sun came up. Because we also knew that the Taliban had dishkas up on the ridgelines and stuff like that. But thankfully no night Vision in this area. The Taliban didn't have night vision. And so we need to get inside, get our command and control set up. We can bring the, we can bring the command team and our overwatch team across the river once we get these compounds secured. And then we'll continue moving upriver to meet up with the commandos that we're going to infill center and then the ODAs that were coming down from Firebase Cobra. And basically it was to squeeze the Taliban into the mountains and then we would find, fix and kill them with their air support.
- [69:27]
B
So this is a large operation. Huge, by the way.
- [69:30]
A
This.
- [69:30]
B
Yeah, this is unusual to have this many ODAs, this many, you know, different elements pushing. So that just shows the, you know, the size of this operation.
- [69:40]
A
Yeah, it was a company size operation, which, you know, is huge.
- [69:44]
B
Yeah.
- [69:45]
A
And we knew there was a lot of Taliban in the area because we had been in, if not, if not multiple times a day, firefights every other day or whatnot. And usually it was kind of clockwork. They would hit Cobra and then we're like, all right, give them a few hours, they'll be here. And then they'd hit us. And we had a. We had our compound, it was, it was called the Alamo. And I was like, I, I think that didn't work out well for, for the Texans. That I was like, oh, well, Alamo sounds good.
- [70:13]
B
Yeah.
- [70:14]
A
And so, you know, it's. It's now, it's September 12th, we get the green light. It's like 2:00am I think September 12th, we get the green light to start to move on the first set of compounds. And we have our militiamen with us and we are separated into groups. And so my group there was 2Americans and about 10, 12 Afghans. Kyle had a group, some other guys had a group that they were clearing this World War I style trench system that the Taliban had set up with bunker systems and all this other stuff in there. And so we were broken up into groups. Well, my group, our initial job was to breach the first compound, clear it and get it, and then, and then get it set up for the command team or command and control. Get your JTACs on the roof and start doing what they do and then to move on to the next bunch of compounds. So we're about 20 meters, 20, 25 meters from the first compound. And this is meters. So it's not, you know, people are like, oh, 25ft. That's really close. No, no, this is meters. So we stopped and we're like, okay, this is the part of the operation where the Afghans, Afghan militiamen, a lot of them from this village, they're going to go ahead and they're going to start to do the clearance of the first compound. And then we follow and trail Afghan led mission. And I turned to our interpreter and I was like, all right, man. Just, you know, and we're still noise and light discipline, but the Taliban knew we were there. They're not, you know, stupid, right? But, you know, still noise and light discipline. But it's like, all right, hey, Nick, you know, let's, let's go tell these guys, let's get going. And you know, I'm probably sitting there, probably poster, you know, got the M4 up on a shoulder looking over just like, yeah, Green Beret stuff, doing really, you know. Yeah, that's, you know, that's me, right? And I turn around, none of the Afghans are moving. And I was like, hey, dude, like, what's going on? Tell them, let's go.
- [72:13]
B
Right?
- [72:14]
A
And I got, you know, because I'm, I'm, I'm a junior guy. So I got the guy that's in charge of our element, he's like, hey, let's go. It's like, oh, hey, come on, man, you're making me look stupid. Like, I got a reputation to build here. And he's like, they, they said they don't want to go. I was like, what? What? Well, how can they just say that? Like, we've done months of rehearsals and they can just say that.
- [72:37]
B
Yeah. Pretty sure this isn't an option. It's called an order. Yeah, yeah.
- [72:40]
A
And he was like, yeah, they, they said it's too dangerous. And I was like, I know, that's why we're here. Yeah, yeah, I got it.
- [72:46]
B
Yeah.
- [72:46]
A
And so he tells them again. They, they have a conversation back and forth. And he said, ryan, they, they said you should go first because you have better equipment and you're better trained and it's very dangerous. And I was like, well, yeah, if we were in Texas, then I absolutely would go first because it's my country, but this is their country and for a lot of them, their village. So let's go. And I turned around to tell my counterpart, it's like, hey, man, they're not moving. And he goes, go get Nick away from that compound right now. What are you talking about? So I turned around and looked our interpreter, the only interpreter we had for the mission with a bunch of militiamen. So when bullets are flying, if you can't communicate with the Militiamen, you have a very bad situation. So he had wandered down to the breach point or doorway. I'm still trying to be relevant in the special operations world. He'd wander down to the doorway, and he was trying to wave them down there. And I was like, oh, crap. And so, you know, outrunning my headlights, adrenaline taken over, I ran down to the doorway or breach point, grab by the shoulder and say some stuff in his ear. Like, you know, PG version. Get back to our last position. This is really stupid. And something that you learn from, you know, just basic cqb, basic anything is you never turn your back to the unknown. And so beyond that breach point is a courtyard. And what's in that courtyard, nobody knows what's in there, right? And you can't see. And so I'm not gonna lock it down by sticking my barrel through the door. Cause someone can just have a heyday with what you got and then come in with a pistol and you're done. So I'm locking down that doorway or that breach point as he's moving back. And then I'm gonna move back and we're gonna regroup and we're gonna figure this out again. And so as he's starting to move back, and this is all happening in seconds, I'm talking in minutes, but this is all happening in seconds. As he's starting to move back, I see something move in the corner of the compound. And if you're in this village and you're alive, then you're a bad guy. There's no civilians in this village. There's no animals in this village. If you're in this village and you're alive, you're a bad guy, and I'm gonna kill you. And so adrenaline took over, but I couldn't get a good sight. I couldn't actually see what was moving. Chances are it was a cloth on a line or something like that. So I take a step inside the breach point or the doorway to get a better idea what I'm looking at, to hopefully, you know, what I thought was, you know, was to kill this dude. And boom. I stepped on a pressure plate IED that was right in the doorway. And so after I stepped on it, I don't remember, like, Kyle will tell the version. He heard this huge thump, thud. I don't remember flying through the air and hitting the ground. I just remember I looked up and I wasn't near the doorway anymore. And I looked up and I couldn't move. But I didn't know why, because it didn't hurt at the time. And it wasn't like what I imagined. And you know, you see, you know, you're, you're there when other AFGHANS Step on IEDs, so they're screaming automatically and stuff like that, which I'm not downplaying that it hurts, it really hurts, but it didn't hurt. And I was like, what is going on? And I can't breathe because of the ammonia and the HME and then all the dust from that blast. So I can't breathe. I'm hyperventilating. And I distinctly remember thinking, I was like, calm down, slow your breath. It was like, all right. And I have a three day pack on because we're ready to be dismounted for, you know, what, 48, 72 hours before our first aerial resupply.
- [76:45]
B
Right.
- [76:45]
A
And so, not to mention all the C4 I have in my bag because let's go back a few minutes ago. I am an 18 Charlie. Yeah, the cool part of the job, demolitions. And man, if that would have went, I would have been the first torso on the moon without a spaceship. That would have been legit, but. But I can't move. I was like, what is going on? So once I get my breathing under control, and again, I'm talking in minutes, but these are seconds. Once I get my breathing under control, I start to. I look down and now it's three something in the morning. It's coming on four. And so you're at that time when you're like, do I need nods? Do I not need nods? And so as I'm looking down at my leg and the dust is cleared a little bit, I see my boot is pointed at a 90 degree angle to my leg. And I'm like, huh? Why? Now let's go back to the asfab. There's probably a good reason why I scored low on the asfab. Because I'm sitting there looking at my leg and I was like, what is going on here? That doesn't look right. I don't remember taking my boot off. And I remember thinking that distinctly. I was like, when did I take my boot off? So you know me, I need to see more. So I reach behind my knee and I lift my leg up and my boot flops over and the heel of my boot hits my hamstring and sticking out of my pant leg, whereas these two glowing white objects, I was like, what? What is that? Yeah, yeah, not so high as fab score.
- [78:21]
B
Yeah.
- [78:22]
A
Once it hit me, that was my tib and my fib. The Pain. The pain rushed in and I didn't know what to say, and I just started screaming like, I'm hit, I'm hit, I'm hit. And I was like, what do I do? And obviously we've trained. You know, if you get hit, start. You know, you do, you do self aid and then you do buddy aid. There's a reason for that. Because in an area that's ied, your team can't run up to you, right? And so you need to get that tourniquet on yourself. You need to, you need to do self aid so your team can get there and do buddy aid and then you can move out. So I'm trying to get my tourniquet on, but again, we're dismounted for or we're prepared for, you know, minimum 48 hour without resupply. So my cargo pockets are full of. And I couldn't think through taking things out of my cargo pockets. So I'm trying to tighten this tourniquet down over everything in my pockets and, and I, and I couldn't do it. And then I start losing strength, but I still see blood. And I was like, I can't, like, I can't do this. Like, I, and I started to look back then I can hear the team on the radio and stuff like that. You. Cause again, this is happening quickly. But I look back and it seems like the team is getting further and further away. And as the team gets further and further away, all of their voices sounds like it's echoing down a tunnel now. And I remember I laid my head back and I was like, oh, man, I'm gonna die here today. Like, my team can't get to me. I can't save myself. Like, this is like, I'm gonna die here today. And it's, it's insane because, you know, though, if my team didn't get to me, that's what happens before you die. And I was just like, this, this is insane. And so this huge, you know, no atheist in a foxhole. And so I, I, I start praying. I'm praying I'm like, God, wow. Like, I, you know, I'm in it now. I, I need strength. Please, you know, please help me. Please take the pain away. Something. But I don't think I'm going to live through this. And then I start looking back on my life and this, you know, F5 tornado path of destruction that I had left, and all the people that I hurt, they all came back quick. And I remember, I remember thinking, I was like, man, I'm going to Die here today hadn't hurt all these people, just being a selfish little boy. And it sucked. Like, damn. Yeah, it was. It was tough. It was very tough. And so I remember laying my head back, and, you know, listeners can take what they want from it, you know. Did you just accept death and give up? I probably did. And so I laid my head back, and I just. I just accepted it, and I closed my eyes because I just got. I was so tired. I just wanted to sleep. And then all of a sudden, I get slapped across the face. And I look down, and there's an Afghan that's trying to take stuff out of my pockets. His name's Hadi Lala. He's trying to take stuff out of my pockets to save my life, to get my tourniquet on. And then I'll just say his first name, George. He gets there and slaps the. Out of me, and I'm like, that hurts. And he goes, that hurts, right? And then Kyle's on top of me, and it's like, okay, holy cow, now the pain is back. I, like, the pain had kind of gone away for a minute, and now it's back, and it's even worse because, like, let me tell you what, when you properly put on a tourniquet, it hurts extremely bad. And they're just cranking down tourniquets. Now. All of a sudden, the Taliban, they had an ambush put up or put in for us up the river a little bit. I had ruined their plans by stepping on an IED further down the river, which, if they wanted their plan to work out, they shouldn't arm those IEDs. But my bad didn't mean to wreck your party. And so now they're trying to put in a hasty ambush on us because if I can close the distance with you, you can't drop bombs on me. And so now all of a sudden, Overwatch has opened up. You hear the 50 cal, you hear the miniguns, 60 millimeter more. I think it was 60, or maybe it was 120, I don't know. But mortars would come in, and then air would come on station. So obviously mortar cease, and then air does what they're doing. And then. And so it's. It's becoming kind of chaotic. And they're trying to get dust off or medevac to land there and pick me up. And medevac's like, we can't. We see Taliban fighters with slung RPGs. Like, this is. You have to move him back. What turned out to be over a kilometer That's a thousand meters. And I know, you know, but, yeah, you have to move him back. Like, we cannot pick him up there. You guys have a real mess on your hands. You have to move them back because we're about ready. You know, we need to be able to deconflict aircraft and all this other stuff that's going on. And so, you know, they. You know, they put my tourniquet on, and they had actually. They had actually splinted my leg with the butt stock of my M4. Yeah, yeah. Kyle knows more about that than I do, because I think he was the one that, like, was like, here, use the, you know, kind of thing. And then now it's like, hey, we need to pick Ryan up and we need to move him. And so there was some indecision on the team with the team, sir, and stuff like that. I'm not going to name names, but finally. And. And I remember. Oh, one other thing. I remember the Taliban came over icom chatter, and they were playing that horrible celebration music. Like, we just killed, you know, the infidel or however many numbers. You know, the interpreter saying, like, they said they killed 500 of you guys, and it's like, wow, that's okay. But they're playing that horrible music because they got me. And that, like, that was very, very difficult for me to hear. And then hearing the radio transmissions with our captain trying to get dust off in and them saying, we're not landing there. An entire air crew or one guy is like, I don't think you guys understand. He's gonna die. I didn't know how bad it was. And so the decision was made. We got to move him back a click. And they're, you know, the team sergeant was shell shocked because the explosion, I mean, it was 25 meters, but, you know, it was in his vicinity, and he was shell shocked. And Kyle was like, you know, and he was like, I'll leave out a lot of the colorful words, but he was like, hey, make a decision. Make a decision. And finally, I'll never forget this, he said, fuck it. You're out. I'm in. I'm picking him up. We're moving him back to this location. And Kyle picked me up on his shoulders. Extremely painful. Extremely painful. And he starts moving out with me on his shoulders. And we had to take a break in there. He's like, I got to put you down, man. You're. You're 200 and some odd pounds. Like, like, damn, dude.
- [85:43]
B
Like, break this up into sections.
- [85:46]
A
Yeah. But finally, dustoff comes In. And I know you know this very well, but when it starts to kick sand up, it is so painful. Is extremely painful. Dust off comes in. They put me on the aircraft. R18 Delta jumps on with me as well. And then we take off, and we're heading towards TK or Tarencaut for the first roll facility. I don't know which role it was. Roll two, roll three, whatever. But I remember looking out the door of the Blackhawk, and. Because I don't know if it was a medevac Blackhawk or just a guy that was like, oh, I can come pick him up. I'm not. I'm not really sure what it was. 2010 was weird. People just were like, hey, yeah, we're in the area. We can help.
- [86:35]
B
Yeah.
- [86:35]
A
And so. But I remember watching the team get smaller and smaller, as, you know, as we flew away and. And I just had this overwhelming feeling that I just let everybody down. I just ruined the entire mission. And that crushed me. Yeah, that crushed me. But I got to Tarin Count and the ODA on the ground. A lot of guys I went through the Q course with, they were told I was dead. And so they were at the helicopter to pick up my remains. And then I'm alive. And one of my really good friends, I'll just. His first name, Jeremy, he's pissed. He's. You were supposed to be dead. Because his emotions were all the way through the roof.
- [87:26]
B
It's a roller coaster.
- [87:27]
A
And now I'm alive.
- [87:28]
B
Yeah.
- [87:28]
A
And now. And he's just angry. And I was like, what is going on here? Well, sorry.
- [87:35]
B
I survived. Yeah.
- [87:37]
A
And years later, when Kyle and I reconnected, Kyle was telling me. He's like, dude, the entire team knew that you were gonna die. No, I was like, it was that bad. Well, when I woke up after however many initial surgeries, and I think it was one or two blood transfusions at Taran Cout, there was this note. And I still. I still have it. It's from our 18 Delta. And I won't. I won't name him, but super, super good dude. But there was this note from our 18 Delta. And he said, if you're reading this, you're alive. And I was like, what is going on? And it wasn't until years later, when Kyle and I reconnected that Kyle was like, yeah, we. The entire team, we were pretty sure that that was your last flight.
- [88:24]
B
Yeah, man. How many surgeries and how long did it take for you to just get back to walking or somewhat normal?
- [88:36]
A
So all Total on my right leg was 28 surgeries. Wow. And I had, I had other surgeries for like shrap metal and stuff like that. I had. You know, when you step on an ied, you're usually stepping on it with your legs spread. And as a man, explosives go up and out. And so I had quite a few surgeries there. And the result of that is, you know, I can't have kids. But hey, you know, that's, that's, that's the way that was in God's plans and not mine.
- [89:10]
B
So why do, why do you think it didn't? I mean, because we obviously, we've seen the effects of that and usually body parts are blown off and people are immediately killed. You know, if not. I'm not saying you weren't severely maimed, but it could have been a lot worse.
- [89:27]
A
Yeah.
- [89:28]
B
Do you know if they possibly buried it too deep or, or it's just one of those things. No idea on that.
- [89:35]
A
It was awesome what happened. It was super awesome. If you were going to step on an ied, like, if you were ever like, wonder what it's like to step on an id, you want to step on mine. Because what happened was. So it was big enough to blow the front end of a hilux off. I, I want to say it was over £10, but it was, but it was broken up into cells. So the first cell low ordered the other cells and so I ate two and a half pounds of it still. Yeah. Which, which is big if you're thinking about. Because like, like PMN, PMN 4 landmines, which is military grade landmine. It is enough to blow your foot off at the ankle. And those things are less than a pound. They're half a pound if that. And that'll blow your entire foot off. And so what I stepped on was two, two and a half, maybe three pounds. The other thing is the HME was extremely. So you have different RE factors. So you have one RE factor like miners will use for blowing rock or blowing ditches. This is your dynamite, this is your tnt. It's a pushing factor. And then you have the cutting factors, your C4, stuff like this. This was very, very high re factored HME. And so the blast wave went up through my foot, blew my foot in half and it exited out at my calf. But there wasn't really a lot of tissue damage, which is why I was able to keep my leg. My doctor told me, he said we amputate because of tissue damage. I can fix any bone. Yeah, we amputate because of tissue damage. And although my entire right leg and half of the bottom of my foot is skin grafts, it's still, the tissue damage wasn't that significant to where I was borderline because my, my casualty card says below the knee amputee. And then when I, you know, and I had a bunch of infections and stuff like that from like E. Cola and stuff like that, but it was a relatively clean cut. So when I actually got to Brooks Army Medical center in San Antonio where they did, you know, where I went through, you know, all my. Sir. Not all my surgeries, but a lot of my surgeries and rehab, I went into this program called the limb salvage program. And so they had told me, they were like, yeah, this will be, this is the most severe limb we're going to try and salvage. But there's a lot of research that will come out of this. And if it doesn't work, then, boom, below the knee, you get a cool, you get a cool leg, you go out and you do your thing and you got, you know, you got pirate costume for life. It's great. But if it does work, this is going to really help a lot of people. And so I was like, yeah, let's, let's do. I mean, what do I like? Strangely enough, I'm not going anywhere for a minute. Like, I'm not running anywhere. So. And so, yeah, and it did work. The skin grafts healed. The first time I was able to grow back an inch and a half of my tibula. And it just like it was, you know, Wolverine stuff. Like they, you know, I was called Wolverine minus. Minus the cool hand things and the, well being extremely ripped. Yeah, you know, it's called Wolverine because of how fast I was healing.
- [93:06]
B
And that happened on your first deployment?
- [93:08]
A
First deployment.
- [93:09]
B
And after 28 surgeries, going through all
- [93:13]
A
this learning to walk again. Learning to walk medically, retired.
- [93:17]
B
And then you went. Well, and then you went to seven. Seven more combat deployments right after that.
- [93:23]
A
Yeah. As a Green Beret. It was, it was. There was five and then two as.
- [93:31]
B
Correct.
- [93:32]
A
Yeah, correct.
- [93:33]
B
Yeah. So five more deployments after that as a Green Beret. That's crazy.
- [93:38]
A
Yeah.
- [93:39]
B
That's absolutely insane.
- [93:42]
A
Yeah. Because. Yeah, I, I mean, I just remember the command sergeant major came in. Really, really good friend of mine. I doubt he would mind me saying his name, so. Brian Rerey. I love that guy to death. And we're both Oregonians. Huge Ducks fan. He brought me in this Ducks jersey signed by the 2010 Ducks National Champion second place team. We lost the national championship, but whatever. And. And so he had told me, you know, hey, if you, if you get medically cleared, I'll send you back to war. Realizing that I was not going to get medically cleared because I was probably going to be medically retired, which I was. But there's also a waiver system to come back on active duty called a coad. Continue on active duty waiver. So I was able to come back on active duty through the COAD waiver. And they have that because it's like, oh, okay, well, we just spent millions of dollars to train you as a Green Beret. There's something you can do that you can wear tennis shoes and walk around with a cane. There's something you can do. And so I was medically retired, brought back on active duty through the waiver system, and then I went through all my rehabilitation there at Brooks Army Medical center when I was medically cleared. So I got blown up September 12, 2010, and I left Brooks Army Medical Center November 2011 to report back to 7th Group. They were getting geared up for another deployment back to Afghanistan. And so they were leaving in January. I was like, okay, cool. Or February. February 2012. And so there's this program. Amazing, amazing program. Seventh group. I know all the groups have it. I'm fairly certain seals have the same thing. But it was. It's called the Thor 3 program. And it was basically program called, you know, return to War. And this program is great for jump injuries, motorcycle injuries, you get hurt on this break your back, whatever it is, IED blasted the leg, all kinds of stuff. If you can make it through this program. And the Thor 3 program signs off with the group surgeon, like, hey, yeah, he, he is fit to go back to an ODA team, then the, then seventh group can take that responsibility away from big army saying, you're non deployable. Because I was on non deployable status. I mean, every single battalion commander was like, how's Ryan Henderson non deployable? He literally just went on this last one with us, and they're like, no, no, he's different. He's different. He's just, you know, whatever. But they can override that waiver and say, we take responsibility and then you can Deploy. And so 2012, I fit. You know, I finish up the Thor 3 program, I get cleared, the entire company's gone. So nobody there really knows who Ryan Henderson is because I got blown up as a new guy. And so everyone's just like, oh, yeah, okay, you're just. You're just getting. You're just getting back or you're just getting here? Like, yeah, man, okay, yeah, you're, you're heading, you're gonna go meet up with 2nd Battalion Alpha Company in Afghanistan in March. So yeah, get your stuff ready. All this other stuff. And I was like, sweet, yeah. None of you guys have any idea about my past that didn't come forward until I get to, I get to Kandahar and the company sergeant major walks out and he was like, what are you doing here? I was like, I got medically cleared. He's like, you are not cleared to be here. I was like, no, no, no, I am. Here it is.
- [97:24]
B
Right?
- [97:25]
A
So he was the company sergeant major, the battalion sergeant Major. Brian comes out and he was like, hey, glad you're back, man. Promise is a promise. He said, I hope you're ready for this. It's like, what do you mean, sergeant Major? He goes, yeah, the team in Panjaway district, Kandahar province needs an 18 Charlie and you're heading to probably the worst area in Afghanistan in 2012. He's like, I hope you're ready for this. Let me know now if you don't want to go. We'll put you at the talk. You can work your nine months here. And I was like, no, no, no. And so my first trip back was to Panjwe district, Kandahar province. Probably the nastiest, scariest place I've ever been to, including Ukraine.
- [98:12]
B
Yeah, yeah. But what a chance at redemption to some degree. Right? Because you just said, and it's always true, our biggest doubters, usually ourselves, you feel like you let everyone down. But the only, the only way to, to throw that self doubt off is to get back in the game and get back at it and prove not, not just to them differently because they, they don't think you have anything to prove. It's really yourself. You got to prove it to yourself.
- [98:47]
A
Absolutely. And you know, I, I want to be, I want to be very transparent with the listeners here. It did not come without a price. When I was going through rehabilitation, surgeries and rehabilitation, I went through the darkest, worst periods of my life. Where I did, I had, I had that line in the sand drawn in my head. If things get worse than this, I'm going to kill myself. Yeah. And so it's not that I'm this great triumphant guy that, you know, is hard as woodpecker lips and all this other stuff. No, no, no. It's the exact opposite. I went through hell and most of it self induced, but I went through hell and the reason why is because of this entitled victimization pit that I threw myself. Well, I dug it, and then I threw myself into it. And my dad. My dad, he's. I'm fairly certain my dad's an angel. Fairly certain. He has a rough background. My dad wasn't always a good guy. My dad was a bad dude. You look weird at my dad. You're fighting. Alcohol was a friend of his, and he. He could be a very violent guy. Not to. Not to us kids. But Vietnam was. Was always there for him. And so. But when my dad found God and he started to work, you know, his journey through Christ, he became this man that when he gave advice, it's because he's been there before. He had his line in the sand. He found God at the bottom or at the end of a shotgun because he was going out to kill himself, and a car pulled up thinking he was broke down. And in that car was a preacher. Yeah. Talk about weird, right? And so my dad gave me this bit of advice. In some of my darkest, darkest times. He, you know, he's giving me tons of advice, but he said. He said, we need to have a talk because you're. You're going down a very, very dangerous path that you don't have the strength to come back from. And he said, right now you're at a brick wall, and you can either go left or you can go right. And let me tell you, the direction you're heading in right now, the turn you are about ready to make, you can't come back from. What it is, is you are now becoming your injury. And because of that, and your injury is taking you over. You are becoming entitled to what you think you deserve because of this injury. And so with that entitlement, what's happening is you're demanding everybody understands what you went through and what you think you did for them. And people can literally, literally kiss your feet and cry and say thank you for your service. It will never be enough because you cannot fill this. You cannot fill an entitlement void. I mean, hell, watch the news. Like, we have a country of entitled kids right now. You can't fill this entitlement void. And so when that void doesn't get filled, you turn into a victim. Poor me. I did all this, and now look at what I get. Look at what's happened to me. All this. And so this entitlement void creates a victim. And with victimization, you continue to dig and dig a deeper and deeper and deeper hole. And until you get to the very bottom of this hole and you hit rock and you look up and it's impossible to climb out of it. You pushed everybody away from you. People keep throwing ropes down and ladders down. Climb out, we got you. And you keep cutting them. No, you don't understand. You don't. Whatever it is, he said, you know, and so once you've pushed everybody away from you that are. That is actually here to try and help you, and you're all alone, he said, that's when I don't think you have the strength not to kill yourself. Because that's what's happening with veterans right now, is they've gotten themselves into such a deep pit and they have cast away every single attempt to help them, whether it's ropes or ladders or whatever. And this is all meta, you know, metaphoric, but. And now due to their victimization and their entitlement and the mental health trauma and, I mean, going through all those surgeries, the meds don't help at all either. I get it, you need them. But he said, I don't think you have the strength not to kill yourself or there's another path you can take. He said, as dark as the times are right now and as like, bleak as it seems, he said, this is a sliver in time. All this is going to pass. But let me tell you what's going to happen. The two old men. Well, there's another thing that you're going to have to do as an old man. You're going to look back and you're going to have to reconcile with how you handled this situation. The pain. Did you own it? Did you man up? Were you strong through it? Or did you allow it to take you over? Did you hurt people around you that were trying to help you? You're going to have to. You're going to have to look back on how you handled the situation. He said, don't allow yourself to get to an age and look back and regret what you did in this moment right here. He said, that path you can take, he said, use this experience. Use this pain. God doesn't waste pain. Pain is the greatest teacher of all time. Use this experience. Use this pain to build yourself up and make yourself stronger. But don't do it for you. Build yourself up, make yourself stronger so you can help other people. He said, that's the answer. He said, you don't realize you got the golden ticket. You should be dead, but you're not. You remember all that stuff you were thinking while you were laying there along the Helmand river waiting to die, all those regrets. He said, you can go back and undo all of that. He said, your past is your past. Use all those experiences. The, the bad, the ugly, the, the truly evil stuff you did. Use it to build yourself up, make yourself stronger so you can help other people. And that way what you're going to be doing is you're, you're going to change your life around and you're going to be doing something that instead of destroying everything in the world around you, you're doing your part to make the world a better place. He said, those are the two choices you have. And he said, but one of them is going to cost you your life. One of them is going to give you your life. And that like that man, that was super powerful. Super powerful.
- [105:49]
B
Wise words from a wise man.
- [105:50]
A
Yeah.
- [105:51]
B
And they had, clearly they had lasting effects. And that's got to be a hard conversation to have with your son though, but to be willing. But he's been that man for a long time.
- [106:02]
A
Yeah.
- [106:03]
B
He was willing to look at you as an 18 year old and be like, gotta get out of the house. That's not an easy thing to tell your kid, get out of the house. Because it's gonna be hard, but it's the best thing for you, you know, and people don't do that as like they used to, but it was for the best of a, for a young man.
- [106:23]
A
Yeah, I don't like you. I love you.
- [106:25]
B
Yeah. You know, same thing with that conversation. And of course it's, he, he gave you the tools and now it's just up to, he gave you the tools, he gave you the information, you know, but you, you still have to be able to, to take it and apply it and, and, and realize what is good advice and say, that is good advice. Yeah, I'm going to take that and I'm going to apply that.
- [106:47]
A
And that's, but that story, that, that dark, dark period of my life, I tell that because what happens is a lot of times people will listen to these special operators or professional athletes or something like that, and they will be giving you advice on how to live your life. And people look at them on a pedestal like, well, of course, of course he could say that. He's a Green Beret, he's a Navy seal, he's an NFL, whatever it is. Of course it's easy for them. They're not me, they, they don't know what I'm going through. And I'm telling you, we are all human beings. And I went through it yeah. And I almost dug a hole that I couldn't get out of. It was very, very close.
- [107:34]
B
Well, it seems as if you took that advice. He said, you can destroy your own life or you can give life. And that's, that's something that you're really, you're doing in Ukraine right now and, and have done for years. Let's go ahead and talk about Ukraine. What, what is it that, that brought you over there and what do you, what is it that you're accomplishing in Ukraine?
- [107:55]
A
Yeah, so just to kind of sum it up, what brought me to Ukraine was after, after the withdrawal from Afghanistan. So I left Afghanistan on my last deployment, beginning of June of 2021. So not quite the full withdrawal, but pretty close to it. And when I got home, I, you know, I found myself going back into, you know, kind of, kind of some dark places because, you know, the questions that are just unanswerable. What was it for? What was the bloodshed for the brothers that we lost? You know, what was it all about? Questions that there's no answer to. And, but it started to plague me. And then as I'm watching On the news, February 2022, we're watching the full scale invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation. And I'm, I'm just, I'm glued to my TV and I feel this nagging feeling in my chest of I wonder if there's something that I can do to help. I wonder if there's, you know, there. I wonder what, you know, the what ifs. And then, you know, it's, you know, that feeling is something that I know, you know very well as well. It's, it's de oppressa liber to free the oppressed. And so, you know, as I start to talk myself out of it again, it's like I don't even, I have no ties to Ukraine, know nothing about Ukraine at all. The two old men on a rocking chair came back to me and I don't want to be that old man that looks back and wish I would have at least tried. And so the middle of March 2022, I headed to Ukraine and I was going to link up with a missionary organization. And what they were doing, they're called ywam, Youth With a Mission. Amazing, amazing missionary organization. But what they were doing is these kids, and I call them kids, but they're, you know, 19, 20, 21 year old kids are driving around the suburbs of Kiev and evacuating men, or I'm sorry, evacuating women, children and the elderly. From areas that the Russians are. Are threatening or pushing into or whatever it is. And, and a good buddy of mine, Dave Cunningham, whose family founded the missionary organization Ywam, he, you know, we had talked and I said, I just, you know, I wish there was something I can do to help. And, you know, he said, you would go to Ukraine, I guess. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yep, I think I would. Don't want to be that old man. And I was like, yeah. And so I tried to get, you know, I was a contractor at the time, and I asked my job if I could go leave without pay. And they said, no, you have a security clearance. And I said, okay, well, I guess this is my two weeks complete knee jerk reaction. Just like, okay, you're gonna go from employed making decent money to unemployed to do what? But I didn't want to be that old man, wishing I would have at least tried. So I love it. The first trip over there, it was evacuating women, children, the elderly out of areas the Russians were moving into. As the Russians started to conduct their withdrawal to the east in the Kiev region, that was in April 2022, and other regions like, like Kherson and stuff like that. It was November 2022, late April for Kharkiv, during the, during the offensive. But as the Russians started to conduct their withdrawal to the east, civilians started to come back to their homes. And so once the Russians left areas that a lot of listeners would probably understand, and, and you and I both know very well, places like Bucha and European, we were going in there to help the civilians that were coming out of Sellers. At first they thought it was a trick by the Russians. They're like, there's no way. And Ukrainians are on loudspeakers like, hey, it's safe. Come out. We have food, we have this. You know, and once they started to come out, looking at these people that have just gone through, you know, 30, 45 days of, of what they went through, and I wasn't there, so I can't call it what, what. I don't know. But they went through some stuff. And we were in bucha and European April 4, 2022. And that's when Zelensky had opened it up for international reporters because he wanted them to see what. What had happened there, the massacres and stuff like that. And so that's when we were in those areas. And all of a sudden, you know, after the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and I know this isn't a podcast on that, but I felt like we abandoned this is my, Ryan Hendrickson's personal feelings. I felt like we abandoned our partners, we left them to die. And I didn't, I didn't want to do that again in my life. And so I was going to do my part and what I could do the best that, that, that I could. And that was now in Ukraine. And so I, you know, and so helping these people out that had just lost everything on a, on a, on a, on a scale that I've never seen before because war fighters were really good at doing more. The aftermath of it, the civilians suffering, the, you know, what, what the civilians go through that, that they're only guilty of being in the middle of the war. I didn't really have a lot of experience with that. Now I'm starting to see, you know, the suffering on a whole nother scale, but I'm also starting to see humanity and neighbors helping each other out and everything. And so, and them being so thankful that an American was there to help. And just, just because I'm an American. And what that did for me was it gave me this renewed sense of service that I had lost after the close or after the withdrawal from Afghanistan. And with that renewed sense of service, I now had purpose. And with purpose comes hope. All through helping other people. And as the Russians continue their withdrawal to the east, civilians started coming back to their homes and that's when they started hitting landmines. So wildfires, tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, whatever, once the danger has passed, people will go back to see what's left of their homes to start to rebuild, to collect the valuables, the memories that were there. War is no different. But in this instance, people were coming back and they were hitting landmines that were deliberately placed in order to slow down what could have been a counteroffensive or if the Ukrainians decided to pursue them as they were withdrawn to the east. So it was a tactical withdrawal because they were leaving a lot of landmines in their path. Not to mention all the landmines that were laid from just what had taken place there in the last 45 days. And as civilians started to get injured and killed by landmines, I now was able to circle all the way back to September 12, 2010. And that pain that I went through from stepping on an IED and that life changing experience I had now, what my dad said, it came full circle. You have two choices. One turn is going to lead you to a pit that you're not going to be able to crawl out of. Another turn is you're going to Use these experiences to build yourself up, make yourself stronger, and help other people. And so I was going to use that pain because again, God doesn't waste pain. I was going to use that pain and that experience that I went through when I got blown up to help Ukrainian civilians, because no child should have to go through that pain.
- [115:59]
B
No kidding.
- [116:01]
A
And it did. It went all the way. Now, I saw God's hand. In September 12, 2010, God put that IED in my path. I used to look at it as the worst thing that ever happened to me, and now I realize it's the best thing that ever happened to me because God put that IED in my path to wake me up. Because I wasn't listening to him and he was like, all right, you're an idiot. Your ASVAB score. Show it and you won't pay attention. So I'm going to have to nearly kill you for you to start to listen to me. And 2010 to 2022, I was like, oh, okay. And I can just see God. He's just like, wow, you are special. Kind of stupid, you know, but we all are.
- [116:53]
B
It's not just you.
- [116:54]
A
We all are. I was using those experiences to help other people. And we, you know, I created this nonprofit, Tip of the Spear Landmine Removal, because the power that I got from helping other people and the purpose and the hope that was restored in me through humanitarian means in, in, you know, a risky situation at times. If that did, you know, if that helped me out, I wanted to share it with other veterans. I wanted more veterans to come over and to help people and see the power behind helping other people and how that gives you back service, purpose and hope. And so, yeah, we created the non profit and it's not just demining. I kind of pigeonholed our organization when I was like, Tip of the Spear landmine removal. I mean, we do all kinds of things.
- [117:43]
B
Yeah.
- [117:43]
A
In teaching, agriculture, reconstruction, whatever. But we created this nonprofit. I just got back from our 13th mission in May. And we created this nonprofit because the main reason behind it is because there is an immense power in helping other people. And we have a veteran mental health crisis going on in our country right now. And you know, you can throw as many prescription meds at it. There's all kinds of. And I'm not, I'm not bashing veteran organizations. There's many veteran organizations that do amazing things, but you know, these, these five to ten day camps or hunts or something like that, that's amazing for reconnecting veterans, but it's in my opinion, it's not long enough. And we bring you over 45, 60 days, we put you in this environment helping other people. It's going to start to rewire your brain, and you're out of your. You're out of your norm, you're known, which is the United States. So it's almost like you're back on. On deployment again. You're amongst people. There's a language barrier, and you're kind of doing what you did in the military minus, you know, the destructive part. But now you just went from. You just went from military to humanitarian, and now you're seeing the entire other side of what, what war does to the innocent. And, and it's, it's a weird way to say, but it is extremely healing. And you can, you can see God working in some of the darkest, darkest places I've ever been, especially Ukraine. You can see God's hand at work in the people. And that's one thing that I want to do with our mission, is we pray every, every time before we go on the minefields. But my prayer isn't necessarily about safety. My prayer is use our actions to spread your word. I want to spread the word of God through our actions and what we're doing here. And that's, that's tip of the spirit, landmine removal. That's why we created it.
- [119:49]
B
I love it. I love it. Yeah. I tell people all the time when, when you get out, you have to find purpose. You have to find a purpose because you had it in the military.
- [119:59]
A
Yep.
- [120:00]
B
Of course, the number one place you'll find purpose and more importantly, peace is, Is the book behind your book right there?
- [120:07]
A
Yep, absolutely.
- [120:08]
B
The Bible. But, but men need a purpose in life, so I. And that's what you have found, and that's what you're giving other people. And I love to hear that, Ryan. I absolutely do.
- [120:18]
A
Yeah. And I'm a. I'm a reborn again. Christian. Like my walk with Christ, I, I finally surrendered myself probably the end of 2023. And then, you know, I, you know, I went through ibogaine therapy and stuff like that to where I had, you know, my ego death. But I started to. I just surrendered. I was like, I can't do this anymore. I cannot continue. I cannot continue to try and save myself. I was like, I don't have the strength. I'm tired. I'm tired. And again, you know, I'm pretty sure God's just like, wow, you're stupid. Finally, Finally. Because there's such a level of peace and freedom that comes from something as easy. And it's, it's ridiculous. It's like, you don't have to bear this burden. Give it to me. Like, let it go, dude. Let it go. It's so easy. And I'm like, no, I'm gonna throw all this in my rucksack. And now I have a 500 pound rucksack that has just crushed my spine. And well, I mean, we're all crushed from group, but you know, I'm gonna carry it myself. And he's like, okay, yeah, keep going, dude. Yeah, cool. There'll be a time you're gonna hand it over to me. I'm gonna make you. But how much pain you want to go through, that's up to you. And again, let's your asfab scores. You're probably gonna go through a lot of pain before you just finally surrender to me. And I did because I am a God fearing man. It was only a matter of time before I surrendered to him and I quit trying to do it on my own and only using God as a genie when I needed him. And that's. Man, it's freeing.
- [122:02]
B
I do, I love to hear it. I really do. Tell, tell the listeners where, where they can get your book. Tip of the spear.
- [122:10]
A
Yeah, so the book, I, I buy them off of Amazon. That's the easiest for me. But we have a website. It's a landmine removal dot org.
- [122:20]
B
Okay.
- [122:21]
A
And there's a link for the book there. And then there's a Ryan M. Hendrickson dot com and there's a link for the book there. But yeah, I literally just googled Tip of the Spear. Ryan Hendrickson, Amazon pops up. And I, I buy the books off Amazon because it's just easy.
- [122:37]
B
Yeah, I love that. I got one more question before we leave. It's the same question I have at the end of every episode. Tell me a funny story.
- [122:46]
A
A funny story.
- [122:48]
B
Between eight trips overseas and probably some ridiculous things that happen in Ukraine. You should, you should be able to pull one out for me.
- [122:57]
A
Oh, yeah, there's. There, there's got to be a number of them.
- [123:02]
B
Usually the problem is thinking of one that's appropriate to tell.
- [123:05]
A
That's that, that, that, that's the big problem from being almost naked on a minefield because ants had crawled into my clothes. And I have, and I have, I have two.
- [123:17]
B
One. Yeah.
- [123:17]
A
I have two grown men that are trying to brush all the ants off me while I'm standing in my underwear and people from the road are looking and you know they're. We're about 500 meters in, so. Yeah, well, 200 meters. And so it had to have looked a little strange from the road. Like.
- [123:34]
B
Yeah, I'll take that one.
- [123:35]
A
There's a lot of language barriers there. And so it's like, what exactly is going on on this field right now?
- [123:40]
B
Yeah. Could you imagine driving by and just
- [123:42]
A
seeing that people did.
- [123:44]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [123:45]
A
And it's like I'm. I'm dancing around and these guys are trying to get these ants off me and Because I literally laid on accident in. In an ant pile underneath a TM62 anti tank mine and I was trying to probe underneath it to see if there was any secondary devices and I was like, I don't even know the feeling. I just was like, wow, that feels weird. And then the first bite and I was like, something. And then all the bites and then, you know, clothes are flying and, you know, I. Yeah.
- [124:16]
B
So no good deed goes unpunished.
- [124:19]
A
No, no, no, no. So that was one of them. The funniest story ever, though. This will top it.
- [124:26]
B
All right.
- [124:27]
A
Was Peru. Our ODA was in Peru and myself and our two. I had two Junior Charlie's at the time. I love them. Death. Tyler and Frankie. But we were doing this little a. We're bored. We're up here in the jungle. Let's do a Cool Guys Don't Turn around for Explosion video. It's like, okay, yeah, cool. So we had set up just a little charge and we're like, yeah, let's do it. And it was on a pole line. And so, you know, we got the. We got the GoPro set up and everything. And the charge is set up on this tree and we're walking away and I pull it and it's like, boom. And it's like, yeah. We're like, yeah, High fives. Don't turn around, guys. Cool guys don't turn around for videos. All of a sudden it sounded like a 762 round zipping past your head. He's like, and then next one. And I was like, what is that? And then Tyler gets hit. And we just start sprinting up the road. Tyler's screaming, Frankie's like, go, go, go. Well, a little bit up on the tree was a hornet's nest. And we had. We had done the Cool Guys Don't Turn around for Videos. And the hornets in Peru are a lot different than in the States. And when it exploded, we pissed them all off. They saw us.
- [125:41]
B
Yeah.
- [125:41]
A
And it was. And it's all on video.
- [125:44]
B
Cool guys don't turn around for explosions, but they'll run for hornets.
- [125:49]
A
It hurt really bad. Tyler's got. Clothes are off. He's rolling around in the. In the. In the grass. And, you know, it was just. It was a mess. But that's the cool, guys. Don't turn around.
- [126:01]
B
We got a twofer on that one, Drew. A twofer. All right, we got a live to get ready for that you're sticking around for. And by the time people watch us, they'll more than likely have seen you on the live. So let's get ready to. To reset this thing and do a live.
- [126:15]
A
Absolutely.
- [126:16]
B
Thanks so much, Ryan.
- [126:17]
A
Yeah, thanks for having me on, man.
- [126:19]
B
Oh, loved it.