Tier1 Podcast: Tier One Operative's Remarkable Career Hunting Terrorists

Host: Brent Tucker
Guest: Joe England ("Stoic Viking") – Ex-5th Group SAUDA, ISA operative, DoD Blackhawk pilot
Release Date: March 30, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores the astonishing and often unseen world of elite military intelligence through the career of Joe England—SIGINT specialist, former Intelligence Support Activity (ISA) operative, and later an Army Blackhawk pilot. Host Brent Tucker, a former Delta Force operator, dives deep into Joe’s unconventional path, historic missions, and both personal and professional challenges, offering a raw and unfiltered look into the realities of the special mission world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Military Career and the Unique Role of SAUDA (06:00 – 21:00)

• Joe’s Intended Path: Originally set on becoming a Green Beret, Joe was medically disqualified after a college accident (06:46).

  "I wanted to be an 18x ray...unfortunately, I was in a car accident in college that left me with a ruptured spleen..." (06:49, Joe)

• Finding SAUDA: Persuaded to enter Special Operations Team Alpha (SAUDA) as a cryptological linguist and Farsi speaker—initially focused on force protection and later on offensive SIGINT (06:49–09:21).

  “At that point, nobody in our team actually had NSA access...when we came back...we all had NSA access, which is a complete game changer.” (12:56, Joe)

• Nature of the Job: The transition from simply intercepting enemy communications for force protection, to taking an active role in targeting, analysis, and NSA collaboration (09:21–14:31).
• Team Dynamics: Some ODAs understood and maximized SIGINT capabilities, others underutilized or misunderstood their potential (15:29–18:18).

  "As an echo man, I loved having Sades with me...they were godsends." (18:01, Brent)

• Humint + SIGINT Synergy: Real intelligence ‘magic’ happens when integrating human and signals intelligence for a complete picture (12:56–14:31).

2. Shifting Paths: From SF Ambitions to ISA Recruitment (21:14 – 31:24)

• A Career-altering Rejection: After a failed waiver attempt to join SF (linked to selection medical risks), Joe is guided toward ISA selection by an influential mentor (Prometheus Group course) who spotted his potential (21:14–25:51).

  “He said that I had what they were looking for when it came to operatives...He made the joke, ‘you should skip JV and come straight to varsity.’” (23:24, Joe)

• Perspective on Setbacks: Joe reflects on how life’s twists (injury, rejection) opened even better doors in special operations and intelligence, paralleling Brent’s own career (25:51–27:30).

  “It’s not that bad things happen to you, it’s how you handle them.” (25:14, Brent)

3. The Shadow World of the ISA—Selection and Training (31:24 – 59:00)

• ISA’s Origins & Purpose: Explains the genesis of Tier 1 intelligence (ISA/Task Force Orange) in response to failed hostage rescues and CIA-military friction (34:22–36:13).

  “Its original design was to be the Army’s version of the CIA, but later became an amalgamation of the CIA and NSA...” (35:01, Joe)

• Myth, Secrecy, and Recruitment: The notorious secrecy of ISA; candidates have minimal idea about the mission before selection—sometimes to a fault, possibly missing great talent due to over-classification (29:08–31:24).

  “Some guys would leave...‘I’m not going to that selection. I don’t know what job I’m trying out for.’” (30:15, Brent)

• Selection Experience: Modeled after Delta Force selection—focused on total self-reliance, psychological fortitude, brief instructions, minimal feedback, and extreme physical/mental endurance (47:17–49:50).

  "Majority of selection...you interact with nobody...worry about the one event that I'm at, one land nav point." (47:05, Joe)

• Diversity of Recruits: ISAs operative corps draws heavily from Green Berets, with surprising strength from Marine Force Recon—“the best guys in the unit I ever met was a Marine Force Recon guy.” (52:12–54:19)
• Why Marines Succeed: Many high-performing, outside-the-box thinkers leave for ISA due to cultural mismatch with Marine rigidity (54:19–55:41).

4. Training for Operating in the Shadows (57:47 – 64:44)

• Rigorous Training: ISA’s Operator Training Course (OTC) runs nearly 11 months and fuses tradecraft, SIGINT, HUMINT, and tactical skills—preparing single operators to act as highly resourceful, multidimensional assets (58:04–59:36).
• Continuous Learning: The rapid pace of technological change in SIGINT requires operators to routinely return to the schoolhouse or consult recent graduates for up-to-date methods (64:45–65:26).

  “Technology changes so quickly...the people who are the best in the SIGINT side are the ones who just came from the schoolhouse.” (63:32, Joe)

5. Supporting Tier 1 Operations—Working with Delta and DEVGRU (67:09 – 77:11)

• Integration with Tier 1 Units: After early identification, Joe is pushed quickly into ISA’s tactical detachment supporting Delta (CAG, "Green") and SEAL Team 6 ("Blue"). He describes differences in culture and how ISA adapted seamlessly—down to weapons loadouts and SOPs—depending on which squadron was supported (67:09–80:02).

  “We have kit bags that are like, if we’re going for Blue, we grab this one. If we’re going to Green, we grab this bag.” (78:27, Joe)

• Squadron Culture Differences: Delta (Green) is noted as valuing and protecting their support assets ("Don’t mess with our support guys"), while Blue has more of a “hindrance/necessary evil” vibe and less positive relationships (73:27–76:04).

  "Blue support guys live in fear of their assaulters." (74:05, Joe)

• High Standards: Only ISA’s best get to plug into these missions. Highly selective—physical, technical, and tactical bar nearly on par with the squadrons they support (78:27–80:02).

6. Combatting Iran’s Quds Force and Real-World Impact (80:22 – 94:39)

• Return to Iraq—Combating ISIS and Iranian Influence: In 2014, Joe leads ISA teams on missions to counter Iranian Quds Force and its infamous leader Qassem Soleimani—describing their unchecked control across the Shia Crescent, charisma, and lethal influence (82:27–88:27).

  “If you see a picture...he (Soleimani) looks like the Iranian version of ‘the world’s most interesting man.’” (85:51, Joe)

• The Power of Targeted Action: Explains how eliminating Soleimani was a critical blow against Iranian operations, and the importance of decisive deterrent action (88:27–91:33).

  “He wasn’t wrong...we knew where he was at all times from at least 2014 to 2020. And somebody finally, you know, Trump finally decided to pull the trigger in 2020.” (89:42, Joe)

• Strategic Deterrence: Both discuss the strategic necessity for follows-through, red lines, and American credibility worldwide (91:33–93:22).

7. Leaving Intelligence: Flying Blackhawks, Facing Adversity, and Stoic Resilience (94:39 – 118:42)

• Career Shift – Becoming a Blackhawk Pilot: Burnout, toxic leadership, and sage advice from a legendary warrant officer prompt Joe to leave ISA for Army aviation—facing cultural whiplash and a very different set of challenges (94:39–97:46).

  “Have you ever wanted to fly? ... go, it doesn’t get any better.” (96:57, Joe relaying advice)

• The Hardest Time—Loss and Depression: Joe opens up about his father and sister’s deaths, business collapse, ostracization in flight school, and a resulting spiral into depression and suicide ideation. The only thing that stopped him was love for his dog—turning to stoic philosophy to rebuild (112:20–116:57).

  “The only reason I didn’t do it was because of my dog. My dog Cali...I’m her favorite human.” (116:00, Joe)

• Stoicism as Salvation: Details his embrace of stoicism and its focus on controlling what one can and letting go of the rest, ultimately enabling his recovery and new mission to help others facing similar struggles (116:58–118:42).

  “Failures are your pathway to success. Right? You don’t learn anything from success, you only learn from failures.” (118:00, Joe)

• Therapy and Peer Support: Describes survivor perspective – he’s more equipped to help fellow veterans because of lived experience (121:06–122:34).

  “If you’re like a therapist...but do you really understand if you’ve never went through it? And now I have a better idea of how to help people with it because I went through it.” (122:34, Joe)

8. Team-Life Antics: A Humorous Closing Story (123:37 – 126:56)

• A classic Green Beret story featuring the late teammate Jason Brown, whose sock-and-silky “problem solving” delivers a moment of dark humor and authentic insight into team dynamics deployed:

  “He reaches over...grabs me by the shoulder, looks me in the eye...‘Joe, listen to me very carefully. When a girl’s tossing your salad, do you want her to be like, wow, that is a white ass or, wow, that is a tan ass?’” (124:13, Joe)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s not that bad things happen to you, it’s how you handle them.” (25:14, Brent, on resilience)
• “[ISA]...its original design was to be the Army’s version of the CIA...later an amalgamation of the CIA and NSA...” (35:01, Joe)
• “If you want to be John Rambo, go Green. If you want to be James Bond, go Orange.” (29:08, Joe quoting teammate)
• “Failures are your pathway to success. You don’t learn anything from success.” (118:00, Joe)
• “The only reason I didn’t [commit suicide] was my dog. I’m her favorite human.” (116:00)
• “Blue support guys live in fear of their assaulters.” (74:05, Joe, on Tier 1 culture differences)

Suggested Timestamps

• Intro / Guest Arrival: 01:31
• SAUDA Role & Force Protection: 06:43–12:00
• SIGINT’s Evolving Role: 12:00–14:58
• Path to ISA / First Roadblocks: 21:14–26:56
• ISA Selection & Training Insights: 31:24–49:50
• ISA/Unit Integration: 67:09–80:02
• Quds Force/Iran & Soleimani Targeting: 80:22–91:33
• Personal Struggles & Stoic Recovery: 112:20–118:42
• Humor & Green Beret Anecdote: 123:37–126:56

Where to Find Joe England

• YouTube: Stoic Viking
• Instagram: @StoicViking2025

An essential listen for anyone interested in the realities of elite military intelligence, resilience, and the hidden forces shaping global security.