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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to TikTok Shop Insiders podcast, your.
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B
Source for actionable news, trends, and strategies. If you want to build a thriving brand or Creator presence on TikTok shop, this is your essential listen. Let's get started. All right. Hey, everyone. Welcome to TikTok Shop Insiders podcast, your source for the latest news and strategies for TikTok shop. I am your host, Ivan. We have my good buddy Pat. What's up, dude? How you doing, man?
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A
What up, man? Long time no see.
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B
Yep, yep. It's been a month since we last had a podcast, so sorry for that, but extremely busy on our side. Growing, Growing clients, businesses getting more clients, Growing our internal team. Busy, busy, busy. But glad to.
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A
We had our dinner.
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B
Oh, yes. Yeah, we had our dinner. That was fun. Our wives had a good time. Yeah, you got it. Yes.
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A
Yeah. Shout out to your wife for. For picking the restaurant and planning it, because, you know, they both know we would never be able to get to it ourselves, so they have to get involved. Yep.
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B
So those who are interested, we had a. I. I gave a prize for reaching 10,000 downloads. This was happened, you know, months ago maybe. And then the prize was a dinner. Right. Dinner for Pat and our wives to go. So we went to this Italian. Italian spot downtown San Diego, had a great time, talked and kind of reconnected. Talked about kids and life in general. So right now, I looked at it this morning, but I think we're at 16,000 downloads right now, approaching 17,000 downloads. So I don't know if it's every 10,000 download thing, but, you know, yeah, 25.
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A
25 or 50 is a good.
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B
Yeah, a hundred thousand downloads. Okay, let's do like a trip somewhere, like a camping or like Palm Springs or something cool. Like, that's. That's on the. Yeah, you tried to sneak that in last time we talked, but yeah, let's. Let's go ahead and put that in. So cool. Yeah, it's been a bit. You know, we have some really good updates for you guys. You know, we're going to dive into GMV Max this week. I, you know, probably the number one question I've been asked in kind of all the groups and my interactions with people. It's like, what is GMV Max? How does it work? What's the best time to use it? Know the attribution's messed up. Is this really true? All that good stuff. So in. That's for later on in the podcast episode. So, as always, we start with some news. This is news, but not necessarily in the kind of general TikTok shop area. But you know, our news is we got a cease and desist, if you will, from TikTok, from our URL, tiktokshopinsiders.com stock. So as expected, but obviously SEO purposes. You want to get aggressive. I did plan for it. So our new URL is social commerceinsiders.com so if you want to find. I think it's still under construction. But if you want to find Latest and greatest TikTok shop updates and where to join the Slack group and all that stuff, how to contact us, it'll be social commerce insiders.com kind of sunsetting TikTok shop insiders, as expected. But the podcast will still be called TikTok Shop Insiders until TikTok tells us not to anymore. But yeah, we're going to keep it there, obviously for SEO purposes and recognizable purposes.
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A
Yeah, obviously we're not official employees or connected with TikTok in any way. I think we have to add this disclaimer now to every podcast if we can appease the TikTok lawyers or whatever to.
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B
Yeah, let's. If you're listening to TikTok, you know, we're only just trying to grow the channel, so have some mercy. Cool. So a pretty big piece of news. Kind of development in the TikTok shop space is refundable samples. So traditionally, at least from my perspective, every update from TikTok has been kind of hampering the sellers. Right. They're kind of restricting your messages send their, you know, making it kind of harder for sellers. This one's the first one that I can really recall that is in benefit to the seller. Right. So Pat, if you could kind of go through what refundable samples are.
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A
Yeah. So refundable sample. You can set up refundable samples in open collabs now. Right. So the idea is you set up a product in open collab, you can set up, set that product to have refundable samples available. And then you set the criteria on how a potential affiliate, so a potential affiliate comes in on the open collab, they see a product they want, they would have to purchase that product as a sample. And then if they fulfill the criteria that you submit, you know, typically it's like if you create a video and generates one order, you get a re. That creator will get a refund on the cost of that sample. So, you know, this takes away the risk of giving out samples for videos that don't result in anything.
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B
Right.
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That's essentially the solution to that issue.
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B
Yeah, so it's like all in the effort to get higher quality videos. I think they were noticing and we obviously notice as sellers, it's like or for our brands is we send out a hundred samples and 20 of them are very, very, very low quality. It's kind of like them flashing the product and saying something and you know, putting it down. Right. So now if they are required or incentivized to make a high quality video, AKA get a sale, they're going to treat making that video different. Right. They're not just going to flash it and leave. Right. So you know, the way that we are kind of walking about this or putting this into effect is let's say we have a hundred affiliates that are interested in partnering with us. Right. Top 10% are just no brainers. High GMV, high fulfillment rate, send the product for free. Now we have this middle bunch that are like, well, I don't know, their recent video history is low, their GMV is low, their fulfillment rate is low or lower than average. Well, let's ask them, well, do you want us refundable sample? You can buy it. And if you're really interested in the product and you think you can really sell it, well, we have this opportunity for you. So kind of not necessarily everyone, it's not a full blanket fix for the problem, but it is, you know, an added piece in the evaluation of affiliates.
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A
Yeah, I mean this is, you know, you hear it commonly in the affiliate like groups that they've, you know, been been courted by this brand to like, hey, you know, create a video. We want you to collab and they send in the collab invite and they get rejected. And so this helps us have that, yeah, that second step. Now before we were kind of like ghosting, you know, creators that might do that. So this is a great solution to that for sure.
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B
Yeah, yeah. Kind of expands it. Higher quality, win, win all around. I think it's gotten a negative feedback from the affiliate community because I guess they're just educated or like they, they're, they're accustomed to getting free stuff all the time. Right. Which, that's, yeah, I guess the, the cleaning up the edit system.
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A
But that going early, there's potential for like people trying to game it too. Which might not be the worst thing. Right. Like if you still set the requirement, one sale, fine. Somebody who wants to just buy it and then has a friend go buy it off their video, that's fine. You still get that unit sold. Right. Added to, added to your listing. So all in all it's, it's still a net positive, I think.
- [07:30]
B
Right, right, right. All right. So yeah, that's pretty cool. Refundable sample. Something for the, for the sellers piece of news. Up next is TikTok shop dispatch SLA policy adjustments during the holiday season. Any info on that, Pat?
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A
Yeah, this was, I think the big thing was, you know, when sellers were getting dinged for not meeting the two day delivery. Yeah, it was sometimes a lot of the times it was due to like if you were using usps for example. So your warehouse did everything right. They put the shipping label tracking code onto the product and USPS just did not scan the barcode until like three days out, four days out and then you get dinged.
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B
Right.
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Despite doing everything right now, the change is if you have a proper tracking code and you input it into the system, that counts as your two day sla. You don't no longer have to wait for USPS to scan the code in order for it to count.
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B
Right. So another thing for the seller. So cool. Yeah, good to see that TikTok kind of moving in seller's benefit. And it's right like this time of season, your Delivery services are 10x their normal, you know, flow of delivery. So yeah, great to see that they're kind of thinking about that. Up next is customer messages. So this is kind of like a CRM system. So customer management CRM, a relationship management system where you talk to people who have viewed your product listing or interacted with your product listing as well as previous purchasers in the past. Right. And a way for you to communicate with them. Right. So traditionally on shopify or.com it's you know, it's you know, abandoned carts or you know, repurchase products messaging to them. Right. So this has rolled out to everyone recently, I think in the last two weeks or so. So take a look at your seller cent and it's called customer messages and there's a handful of options there. What do you think about.
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A
Yeah, it's under the marketing tab on the left side. Marketing customers. It has rolled out to everyone but you have to meet certain criteria for it to be available to you. So the three things that they look at are the 24 hour response rate to messages. You have to be over 80%. You have to have less than 12 points, 12, less than 12 shop violation points and more than, you know, some GMV. Any amount of GMV over one, essentially.
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B
Yeah.
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Get you eligible.
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And a use case for this, especially right now is Black Friday Cyber Monday. Likely you have a sale so you can message people who have viewed your listing and offer them, you know, or let them know about your sale that you have going on your promotion during Black Friday Cyber Monday. That's easier win, Right. If they're on the fence, you know, this messaging them is free, so why not just push them along the line for that promotion that you.
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A
Yeah, already there's two. Yeah, there's two sides of it. There's, that's, that's one side and the other side is like the automated messaging that just automatically refreshes their audience. So if a purchase, if a user has added to entered into the checkout process and did not check out in 48 hours, it'll send them an automated message and you can include a coupon with that messaging as well to close the trying to get that account.
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So it's like abandoned cart.
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Yep, yep.
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B
Cool. Cool. The last time or the previous pod, we talked about messaging limitations, right. How TikTok basically restricted how much you can message affiliates depending on your GMV. Right. So at the 2K GMV level, you can message 7,000 messages per week. At the 50K GMV level, you can Message Unlimited between 0 GMV and 2,000 GMV, you can message 2,000 per week. Right. So these are restrictions. A year ago you can message unlimited and you got great numbers. Now it's like a fraction of that. So how do we deal with that? That was a big worry of mine like a month ago when it rolled out. But you know, we've since developed a strategy around that. Right. So what do you, what do you think, Pat? What are some like, initial things that we did when we thought about this, this strategy?
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A
Yeah, I mean, initially. So for, for brands that are just starting out, you have to get at least that one sale in GMB just to unlock 2000 messages alone. You know, you can do this in gray hat ways, right. You, you find an affiliate. If you have an affiliate account, you just have to simply put that product in your showcase. You don't have to necessarily create a video for it and have somebody purchase it from that showcase and that GMB will count towards, towards that amount. So there's, you know, I'm sure there's going to be things, I don't know if we talk about it on the podcast about like potentially having a $2,000 item in your, in your catalog.
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B
Right.
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That somebody can purchase. Do we ever talk about it?
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B
I don't think so. But I mean, there's a lot of different ways, I've heard a lot of different stories on how to go about It. But yeah, like Pat was saying, you know, to reach that 2000 GMB level, what if you had one SKU that was a $2000 item and someone purchased it? Like, that gets you to that next level. Right. So just these creative ways of thinking. TikTok shops, the wild Wild west is also very violation and ban heavy. So I would, you know, your mileage may vary. Something that we don't. We haven't done. We've thought about it, but I've seen people enable it and I guess it worked. I still see them up and running. One other point of clarification here. It has to be GMV generated by an affiliate. So it can't just be some, like you going to your store and buying, because that won't show up as an affiliate gmv. And then another very important point is that Pat mentioned it, but it doesn't have to be from a video that the affiliate created. They can just put it to their product store, list it there, and you can buy it from the affiliate's storefront. Right. So it doesn't have to make a video, but it does have to come from an affiliate. So we learned the hard way it wasn't first like this. Like, I think when it first rolled out, it didn't have that affiliate requirement. So we were like, okay, don't buy anything. Right. But like a week later, we refreshed that page and it says, has to be from an affiliate sale. Which. And there was no communication of this from. From TikTok. And yeah, that was kind of surprising.
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Very quiet, quiet update that they decided not to tell anybody about.
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B
Right, right. Cool, cool.
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A
What else?
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What else? Oh, something else that we do or kind of a weird fact. But to get to that unlimited tier, you have to have 50,000 of GMV. We have clients that have not reached or 50,000amonth in GMV. We have clients that have not reached that tier yet. It's only been, you know, like know, 5,000 GMB or less. Right. But they still have unlimited messaging outreach to affiliates. It's kind of crazy. Like, we've asked our AM and it's like they don't know why that our clients who don't meet the criteria have unlimited, but that's actually the case. So it's a weird fact that we have. I don't know if it's because there are clients and we were able to unlock it for them, but that's a. We do. That's what, That's a hickey. But it's, it's, it's Definitely a large number. I would say like 80% of our clients for unlimited sense.
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A
So yeah, and these brands all have like presence off of TikTok, right? Big Amazon presence, big D to C. Something else we've heard is like if they have a category manager assigned to them for, for, for TikTok shop, that oftentimes will help and that category manager has supposedly have the power to, to unlock it for them. And so that might be something there. So you know, any, we connect somebody within TikTok shop partners, we get a category manager assigned to them.
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B
All right, up next, the kind of the, the meat and potatoes of this pod is GMV Max mentioned it earlier in the very beginning. But one of the biggest questions we get as an agency and kind of interactions is like when do we, when do we start GMB Max? What is it really? You know, how do we know that it's effective? Right, so those are kind of questions that we get and a little background as well. I'm going to toot your horn a little bit here, Pat, but in your previous lifetime, you know, 10 years ago, plus now you were the head of Amazon advertising for a number of brands. I'm sorry, so you worked at an agency, that agency was responsible for the Amazon advertising out of a number of brands, namely like huge brands, huge budgets. Right. It's like Levi's, Robitussen, household names. So this is the Amazon advertising for this huge brand. So you know, I don't know how big your budgets were, but like huge budgets and you know, all that. So you're our ads dude.
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Millions. Yeah, millions a year. Yeah, yeah.
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B
So, you know, it's, you know, awesome to have you on the team and have that ads background and you now obviously by default you're the TikTok ads guy. So we, I go to you for all our, you know, TikTok ad stuff, how to implement, how to budget, how to, you know, kind of set expectations, etc. So you know, I just want to go here with a couple of FAQs that I've received from, from, from people that are, that have asked me but like what's GMV Max and why should brands be using it?
- [17:11]
A
Yeah. So to run ads on, on TikTok you have two options. One GMV Max and two is your custom custom ads through the TikTok Ads Manager side. Oh, I guess GMV Max is also on the ads manager side now as well. With GMV Max, it's a lot of automation.
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B
Right.
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You essentially allow, you know, leverage TikTok's algorithm to pick and choose the videos and the audience that they pair those videos with. And then it takes advantage of all the shoppable placements that are on available on TikTok. So that includes like being in the TikTok feed, being in the search, being in the TikTok shop tab. So people searching within TikTok shop tab and then just kind of videos appearing within the feed itself.
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B
Question. So EMV Max, how do, how does it get the videos or the content to use?
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A
So you for. It basically takes all of the brand's content that has the product tagged in it. So any TikTok shop videos that are available from the brand and then on the affiliate side you can add, you know, all the Spark codes that you've collected from, from affiliates, add them within the, the creative center on the ads manager side. So that's what we do is dump, you know, the creative that we want to use in the ads manager that tells GMV Max that these creatives are available for use. And then GMB Max will pick up any of those videos into its own.
- [18:37]
B
Okay, so in our process, we get a hundred affiliates videos, right? And we get a hundred Spark codes for those videos. Let's say half of them are good enough to use, right? They're not crappy, et cetera. We then put that into a bucket in GMV Max and say, hey, GMV Max, you can use these 50 videos with our 50 Spark codes and run it, run it, right? How does it know what to run? What are some of the items that you input into GMV Max that know how much money to spend, how aggressively, et cetera.
- [19:13]
A
Yeah, so the settings that you. So GMV Max doesn't have a ton of levers you can pull like, as opposed to, like traditional, as opposed to the custom shop ads. In the custom shop ads, you can, you can input your audience. You can input like the targeting, the interest of the people, etc. GMV Max does that all for you. It's, it's automated targeting. So really the only two things that you input into a GV Max campaign are your daily budget and a ROAS target. Beyond the creative that you've already included, those are really the only two things that you lovers that you have.
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B
So on the positive side, super easy. Anyone can do it. On the negative side, one of the questions I get is, well, how do I know now which video is performing the best? How do you know if it's kind of a black box, if you will, right? Or a black bucket of ads? You're kind of Just you don't really know which one's doing well. Like what's your answer to that?
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A
When someone. Yeah, that's, that's definitely one of the challenges with GMV Max is you don't get a ton of visibility at the creative level. They don't like for instance, they don't show how much spend was put against each creative. The only thing you can really see at the creative level are product impressions, product clicks, sales obviously. And then like what, like what percentage of people viewed, you know, the first two seconds, the first 25% of the video, like how far did they view through the video? And those are the kind of metrics that you can see and gauge performance of the videos themselves. Then you can remove, you know, you can elect to remove any creative that for example, has a very low click through rate. Right.
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B
So that's a way of trimming the fat.
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A
Yeah, that's, that don't work. Yeah, the really, the only way to optimize the campaign is through creative optimization. Find the kinds that don't work and cut them out.
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B
Cool. So I've, the main question is, is GMV Max necessary for today success on TikTok Shop today and why?
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A
I would say so GMV Max. In the conversations we've had with TikTok reps on their ad side, GMV Max is definitely for the brand that has already been established on TikTok for a while, has a decent amount of sales, has a lot of content coming in.
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B
A lot of what's a lot of content.
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A
So they've recommended to have at least 50 pieces of 50 Spark codes from affiliates that you can run in GMV Max and then be able to cycle through them almost daily. Right. So you know, top brands are inputting in 15, 20, 25 new videos every day so they can cycle through the creative and minimize creative fatigue. So if you think about that scale, right, that's, those are, those are brands that have been established already doing a ton of affiliate outreach, already getting a ton of affiliate videos back and then they're able to cycle through at that volume budget wise. They're you know, probably starting at 500 to a thousand a day for you know, a small or medium sized brand and then scaling from there.
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B
Okay so those, this is kind of like established brands already kind of popping on TikTok shop. They're, that's the maximum. Like, like, like operating at a high level. So let's, let's take it on the other side. Like if I'm a cold start brand, walk me through that process. So one of our clients, like let's say they have, you know, 50 Spark codes that they've generated and it's good enough. Like what are the next steps for that brand? Yep.
- [22:41]
A
So like we mentioned, you go into, you know, the creatives library on the ads manager side, input those spark codes into the, the bucket so that GMB Max has affiliate content to pull from. Then you go back into the GMV Max, create the campaign and then you're able to basically set the, set the budget that you would want to spend. Right. So there's actually two, two ways that you can run GMV Max and there's a manual way as well that gives you a little bit more control versus having TikTok just pull the videos that you want. You can select, I think up to 50 videos that you want the Genevieve Max campaign to pull from. So there's a bit of a manual way to do it. Most people just do the automated way because it's a little bit more simpler and you want to leverage TikTok's algorithm because you trust that it, it'll find the right audience for your videos. So yeah, create the, add all the spark codes to the campaign, create the campaign itself, then you will select the product that you want to advertise for. So structure wise, you know, I will typically create a campaign, one campaign per product and then you know, all the associated videos would be within that product. So if you have a second product you want to advertise, create a new campaign and then TikTok will automatically pull the videos with that, that specific product tagged in it. So.
- [23:57]
B
Got it. How do you know what roas so you, you put your budget right. That's pretty self explanatory, whatever you can afford basically, or whatever you want to test with. But like ROAS is a little bit different of a metric. How do you approach setting a ROI target?
- [24:12]
A
Yeah, so the main lever obviously is your target ROI. TikTok will always recommend something for a target ROI that they think will have the campaign perform at its optimal level. I will typically start with that ROI unless it's like less than 1 really. So if it's above 2, I'll typically go with whatever TikTok recommends, but it really depends on the brand, the price points of the product. So obviously if you have a lower priced product, it's going to be harder to achieve that target ROI for the spend that you're putting in.
- [24:47]
B
Okay, so do you say to start high, start low, which, where in that?
- [24:53]
A
Yeah, I would start at at least a 2 ROI on the, on the more aggressive side, if you want to be a little bit more conservative, start on the 3 to 4. Because of the way that TikTok attributes GMB and that. I think that's a big topic of discussion, right, for sure.
- [25:08]
B
Yeah, let's go into that. Right, so ROI is good. Now when you, you know, how does. So TikToks attribute the, the data that they get from GMV Max is different than other traditional, you know, platforms, you know, Facebook with roas Target, but also on Amazon there's acos targets average cost of sales, but that's that advertising. How much did you spend for that advertising? And then how much did that advertisement make? Right. So it's like a direct correlation. TikTok Shop is a little different. Explain.
- [25:42]
A
So on the custom shop custom ad side, they attribute sales as you would expect, right? It's a seven day click, one day view. So if somebody clicked on, on the ad they ended up purchasing, that sale gets attributed back to that GMV max is different because it includes both paid sales and organic sales of that specific product. So if you're looking at a window, right, say in the last week you spent $1,000 and the ROAS and then the GMV generated was, you know, $3,000 in that $3,000 is our GMV generated for that product. For videos that might not be included in that campaign, there's overall organic sales of that product paired with the spend that you had in GV Max and that's your roi. So it's very different. And that's a big caveat to understand when calculating the roas in the GMV max.
- [26:38]
B
So if, if I may. So let's say you spend a thousand dollars on GMV Max and you, like your example, you get $3,000 worth of sales. That $3,000 is comprised of multiple areas of sale. One is through the organic sales that happened and one is through the ad sales that happened. And it's kind of hazy, right? Because traditionally you're like, well this ad spent $1,000 and it generated $1,000. Let's turn it on or turn it off, right? Or it, you know, or it, it spent $1,000 and it generated $3,000. Okay, let's keep it on. But this is really hazy because it combines your paid ads spend or your paid ad spend and your paid ad sales with your organic sales that happen. Right? So it kind of blurs that line of like did this dollar spent in ads, is it working in, in general? Right? So it's like, I don't know, because organics miss when paid ads. Right. Okay. Right. Anything to add there? Is that.
- [27:48]
A
No. That's essentially the nail on the head.
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B
Yeah. So now it's plus a year.
- [27:52]
A
Now.
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B
Now the question is like, well, how the hell do you know that your GM Max ads are working? Right. So if you could go into that a little bit or like, what are your thoughts there?
- [28:00]
A
Yeah. I mean, general metrics that you should pay attention to is your. What's. What's your overall GMV doing on the account? Right. Like, if you were formally making only, you know, $1,000 a day, and since you started GMV max, It's jumped to $5,000 a day. You know, you can generally attribute that probably to the increase in ad spend, but really the only way to know is turn on GMV max for a week and then turn it off for a week and then see what the delta is between the two.
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B
Right.
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A
That's.
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B
So one week you're spending 1,000 in GMV and you're generating 10,000 in sales, and that's organic sales and advertising sales. The next week you're spending zero in GMV max and you've only garnered 5,000 in sales. Well, now your ratio is 1,000 spend to 5,000 in sales. That quote, unquote, you can infer that GMV Max has generated for you during that time period. Right, right. Definitely not as scientific or foolproof as you would want, but in this world, we kind of have to deal with it and, you know.
- [29:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's generally it. I think it's. Yeah. I mean, that's. There's really no other way to look at it. But if your overall gmv, like we kind of looked at it in a certain way in Amazon world.
- [29:22]
B
Right.
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A
Like, what's your ad spend versus your overall sales?
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B
When they're. Tacos.
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A
Yeah, tacos. Right. Your total sales divided by your ad spend. And that's kind of the same way you can look at it for G and D max.
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B
Cool. Cool. Yeah. So I guess, quick kind of recap, if you're just setting up 50 Spark codes to get started is kind of like what is. Is advised. You can obviously operate with less than 50, maybe 10, but your, you know, performance won't be as low. Right. If you want to get started low budget, I don't see why not.
- [29:57]
A
The general warning that we've gotten from. From Reps, the TikTok ad Reps, is like, if you don't have enough budget and enough creative, it doesn't allow TikTok to spend enough to optimize the campaign.
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B
Right.
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A
That's why they're recommending upwards of like 500 a day in budget, over 50 creatives. And so that TikTok has more to work with, more data to work with, more videos to work with and they can quickly find out which videos work and then optimize on that.
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B
Something about fatigue. What was that word? Creative fatigue or.
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A
Creative fatigue, yeah. So if you don't have enough content, right, people are going to see the same video over and over again and obviously it becomes less effective over time because people tune it out the more they see it cool.
- [30:34]
B
So and then as like more advanced sellers, you know, the idea there is to get that bucket of spark codes videos up as big as possible, continue to fill that bucket in with more spark codes to, you know, like we talk about, improve that creative fatigue and then adjust your ROAS targets as you know, your business needs. So yeah, I think another point here that a very important point is a year ago you probably could have gotten away with just organic content and just get videos made and it kind of gets into the system and you know, hunky dory. But as more and more brands are getting on to TikTok shop, you know, it's just that that space is more valuable so you need to supplement it with paid ads, you know, paying to put your product, your videos into the face of, of the, the viewer. So it's all in all, I'll say it's becoming more necessary per se in this TikTok shop world. Obviously over time it will become even more and more expensive, et cetera. So it's important to get on there sooner than later and you know, yeah.
- [31:40]
A
Yeah, we're definitely seeing that now in the holiday season, you know, they obviously you want to try to run these during those peak shopping periods. So like back to school whenever. TikTok has like that summer sale right now, Black Friday, Cyber Monday into the holidays, but with everybody advertising at the same time, like your CPMs are going to go way, way up. So it becomes very expensive for sure.
- [32:02]
B
Cool, man. Yeah, that was a very good conversation about GMV Max and ads on TikTok Shop. You know, thanks for breaking it down. Any other questions, please kind of let us know in our, you know, Slack group. Again, you can find us@social commerceinsiders.com Social commerceinsiders.com, the new URL for Join the Slack Group. Ask us questions. We're definitely open to all that. And yeah, man, that wraps up for today's episode. Reminder to leave a review. I've been reading, you know, the handful that we have, and it's been pretty awesome to see. Cool. Yeah. Thanks, Pat, for your time today, man.
- [32:42]
A
Yeah, no problem. It's always a pleasure.
- [32:44]
B
All right, we'll catch you on the other side. See you, everyone.
- [32:47]
A
Bye.