Middle East Alliance Signals New THREAT of NUCLEAR WAR

Summary

Timcast IRL – “Middle East Alliance Signals New THREAT of NUCLEAR WAR”

Date: August 8, 2026
Host: Phil [Timcast Media]
Notable Guests: Steve Loves Ammo (2A advocate, Purple Heart recipient, Army veteran), Olivia (Community Manager), Ian, Carter Banks

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Overview

This episode centers on the seismic geopolitical implications of the newly-signed "Mecca Agreement," a NATO-style joint defense pact among Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan. The panel unpacks how this alters the strategic calculus in the Middle East and beyond, including rising risks for NATO, complications for U.S. foreign policy, and the potential—however remote yet dramatically real—threat of a multi-front nuclear conflict.

Beyond the international crisis, the show ranges onto U.S. domestic issues, including the job market stall, the state of American ambition and the “American dream,” the impact of bureaucracy, student debt, and the cultural identity of what it means to be “American”—all interwoven with the Timcast IRL trademark: unscripted, energetic debate.

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Key Discussion Points and Timestamps

1. The Mecca Agreement: A Middle East Game-Changer

[00:02 – 13:25]

• Summary:
  Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan have formed a mutual defense pact (the "Mecca Agreement"), modeled after NATO. If one is attacked, all respond. This notably includes Pakistan, a nuclear-armed state, and Turkey—a NATO member, thus inserting the alliance into a complex web of escalatory potential.

• Major Insights/Questions:

  • The ambiguity of the pact’s details is a deliberate feature, promoting deterrence.
  • Turkey’s dual role in NATO and this new Middle Eastern alliance raises the chilling possibility of NATO being drawn into conflict with Iran, or, through Pakistan, into Indo-Pak escalations.
  • Quote:
    Phil [06:36]: “This really just makes a big mess that has a lot of implications for the United States.”
  • Connections to previous Indo-Pak conflict and escalation scenarios are drawn.
  • NATO’s Article 5 (mutual defense): Multiple guests underscore how overlapping defense treaties can spark chain reactions reminiscent of World War I alliances.

• Memorable Moment:
  Olivia [07:02]: “On its face it looks like, ‘OK, they just made a pact—what’s the big deal?’ But having ... an attack on one is an attack on all ... can be devastating.”

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2. Defensive Pacts’ Dark Legacy: From WWI to Now

[08:10 – 14:00]

• Discussion:

  • Defensive pacts can entangle peaceful nations in far-flung wars—historically, the spark behind World War I’s global tragedy.
  • Turkey’s unique geostrategic position as a Mediterranean-Russia land bridge and new “triple alliance” heavyweight makes it a “wild card.”
  • Steve Loves Ammo: Suggests this show of unity is likely intended as “back off Iran” messaging, but warns how ambiguities and entanglements can unravel fast.

• Quote:
  Ian [08:30]: “World War I got started because of a series of defensive pacts that triggered ... So like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan are in a defensive pact now—America’s in a defensive pact with Turkey... That alone is, is concerning.”

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3. NATO’s Relevance, Fragility, and the Nuclear Angle

[15:41 – 20:09]

• Discussion:

  • NATO’s internal politics: Germany’s reluctance for Middle East entanglement, Turkey’s balancing act, and the existential risk of dissolution if forced into an Iran conflict.
  • U.S. carries the alliance militarily; debate over whether NATO serves U.S. interests anymore.
  • Importance of nuclear nonproliferation as a NATO function, and fears that without it, more states will push for nuclear capability.

• Quote:
  Olivia [15:59]: “I’m very much ... we don’t even need NATO anymore ... The U.S. doesn’t need it. It needs the U.S.”

• Memorable Insight:
  The irony that NATO, meant to prevent wider war and nuke proliferation, might now—because of overlapping alliances—become a trigger for both.

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4. Russia and the Meaning of Power

[21:10 – 33:19]

• Discussion:

  • Deep-dive into Vladimir Putin’s worldview, Russian military limits, and the Soviet Union’s dissolution as a motivator longing for old territory, not necessarily old communism.
  • Putin’s “greatest geopolitical tragedy” quote and musings over his grasp on power.
  • Skepticism over whether Russia is truly an existential threat compared to turbulence in the Mideast.

• Quote:
  Phil [24:56]: “He’s saying ... those, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus are Russian.”
  Ian [24:08]: “From Putin in 2005: ‘the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century’... He wanted to re-empower Russia itself.”

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5. U.S. Job Market, Messaging, and Generational Divides

[33:49 – 54:50]

• Discussion:

  • July’s surprising job market stall—23,000 jobs lost—seen as a political hit to Trump, but also a seasonal effect (schools cut positions over summer).
  • Wider context: How deportations, inflation, and policy shifts impact the labor force.
  • Intergenerational friction: Boomers’ “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” vs. Gen Z’s feelings of hopelessness and use of Klarna for fast food.

• Quotes:

  • Phil [40:09]: “You can’t talk to young people ... as if they were go-getters, because the go-getters are already out there.”
  • Olivia [44:28]: “The biggest one ... a lack of accountability... The second ... teachers in schools are basically communists ... The third thing is parenting.”
  • Steve Loves Ammo [58:38]: “The American spirit...the American dream has been missing ... We need to re-emphasize that messaging—have people that have actually worked for what they [have].”

• Memorable Moment:
  The panel’s frank discussion on college debt, career paths, and the American dream’s evolving definition (“home, family, personal legacy”).

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6. The American Dream and National Identity

[54:50 – 68:22]

• Discussion:

  • Reassessing the “American dream”—from home ownership and legacy to the intangible sense of agency.
  • Fears over national identity and “hyphenated Americans”; arguments for and against strong assimilation (Teddy Roosevelt reference).
  • Land ownership—barrier to the dream as corporations (and, to a far lesser degree, foreign investors) expand holdings.

• Quotes:
  Steve Loves Ammo [61:22]: “People quit too early...The people that end up successful are the people that don’t quit.” Phil [63:59]: “The idea that you can go to work, do...something you don’t love but you can tolerate...and you can come home and have a home and a family that’s yours.”

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7. Bureaucracy, Fraud, and Domestic Challenges

[77:01 – 85:07]

• Key Topics:

  • Todd Blanche’s confirmation as U.S. Attorney General and the wrangling in Senate over DOJ settlements to “Trump allies.”
  • U.S. bureaucratic bloat—hundreds of political appointments, big government’s inefficiency and waste.
  • Widespread fraud (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security): billions lost, frustration over lack of accountability, calls for fundamental reform.

• Quotes:
  Phil [83:29]: “There's not really a whole lot of light between USAID and CIA. Right? Like, USAID is basically a front for CIA.”

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8. Identity Politics, Immigration, and Assimilation

[113:24 – 115:17]

• Discussion:

  • Unchecked immigration and cultural enclaves as a challenge to national cohesion.
  • Policy proposals include ending (or severely limiting) immigration for a generation to promote assimilation and ease systemic strain.
  • Calls to cut off funding to sanctuary cities as a leverage tool.

• Quote:
  Phil [114:26]: “I’m of the opinion that we should end immigration for about 20 or so years...Let the people that are here assimilate.”

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9. Technology, Corporatism, and American Life

[99:17 – 111:24]

• Points:

  • Appreciation and unease with American abundance (24/7 commerce, uniform safety) versus the potential for “corporate Borg” dystopian control.
  • Techno-fears: AI, Neuralink, decentralized data, and autonomy issues.
  • Comparison to Europe: more traditional, slower lifestyles, but less convenience.

• Quote:
  Ian [102:05]: “I don’t want the Borg being like ‘You’re thinking bad thoughts, kill him.’ ... But that seems like the ultimate goal of the Uni-state...”

  • On Neuralink and AI: “Can you rely on your senses anymore?” — Phil [111:12]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Middle East defense pact:
  “If Pakistan gets attacked by [a] random country, and then Turkey responds...Americans then are bound ... So that alone is...concerning.” – Ian [08:30]

• On generational divides:
  “Stop going to boomers for your advice...You need to hear that you understand what they’re going through.” – Olivia [47:14]

• On the American Dream:
  “The American dream is still there, but you have to start peeling away. Why are we printing money? Why are we $40 trillion in debt?...Once you solve these things, it opens the door again.” – Steve Loves Ammo [67:28]

• On Collapse Anxiety:
  “It feels insurmountable. Literally insurmountable. Like the only way to solve it is to break the whole system, which means like, sudden death for so many people ...” – Ian [85:59]

• On the benefit & risk of U.S. abundance:
  “When I came back to America, I’m like, thank God there's AC...the corporatization of my reality ... But — at what cost?” – Ian [97:45]

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Timestamps for Key Moments

• 00:02 — Show opens: Introduction of Mecca Agreement, guests, episode topics.
• 03:00 — Steve Loves Ammo shares his background and military experience.
• 06:36 — “This just makes a big mess” — Phil, on the alliance’s ripple effects.
• 08:30 — Defensive pacts and WWI lessons — Ian.
• 13:25 — Conversations on independence, Turkey’s risk for WWIII.
• 15:41 — NATO’s fragility, nuclear weapons, and the US role.
• 21:10 — Putin’s worldview, Russia’s real capabilities, “greatest tragedy” quote.
• 33:49 — U.S. job market analyses begin.
• 40:00 – 47:14 — Messaging, generational attitudes, boomers vs. Gen Z’s economic prospects.
• 54:50 — Defining the American dream, agency, and intergenerational transfer.
• 67:28 — “…clouds on top of the American Dream” — Steve Loves Ammo.
• 77:01 — DOJ and political appointments, waste and fraud discourse.
• 99:17 — Tech, corporatism, and the two faces of American reality.
• 111:24 — Discord audience Q&A.

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Additional Highlights

• Light moments:
  – Several jokes about Purple Heart recipients and Russian “enemy marksmanship badges.”
  – Stories about Adam D from Killswitch Engage on “The Price Is Right.”
• Panel’s diverse expertise:
  Real combat experience (Steve), personal stories of debt and ambition, in-depth political analysis.

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Takeaways

• The Mecca Agreement marks a realignment with potential global consequences:
  • It complicates U.S. strategy, puts NATO in jeopardy, and raises the specter of cascading escalation—possibly even nuclear.
• U.S. domestic malaise and disunity:
  • Vexing economic conditions, generational divides, and erosion of faith in politics, the American Dream, and public institutions.
• National identity and the costs of open immigration, unchecked bureaucracy, and corporatism are under sharper scrutiny than ever.
• Technological transformation is a double-edged sword, promising convenience and innovation but also new forms of control and separation from reality and agency.

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Episode in a Sentence:
This Timcast IRL episode dissects the new Middle East defense pact’s dangers and what it means for NATO, blends it with a hard look at American decline narratives, and asks whether the dream of agency, security, and national unity can withstand the storms of external conflict and internal malaise.

Transcript

[Olivia]

Foreign

[Phil]

Arabia, Turkey and Pakistan have all got together to come up with the Mecca agreement. It's essentially based on the framework of NATO. So it's a joint defense pact that says that any of the three, if any of the three nations are attacked, that they're all going to treat it as if they were attacked. Now, there haven't been a lot of specifics laid out there. It's intentionally ambiguous. But we're going to get into how that's going to affect NATO, considering Turkey is a NATO country, how that's going to affect the U.S. united States, because the U.S. and Iran are going at it now and Iran has been shooting missiles into Saudi Arabia, all of that kind of stuff. It has big implications for the United States. So we're going to talk about that. There was a big stall in the job market in July and it's most likely because of school stuff. Right. So summertime, everyone's out of school, teachers take vacation. There are seasonal staff that no longer have to go to work. But we're going to discuss that and the implications. Todd Blanch, who is Donald Trump's appointee for ag, he's been, he had been held up in committee for a while, but he just cleared the hurdle to get a hearing or to get a vote from the whole Senate. So we're going to discuss that a little bit. And then the US Appeals court has once again stopped Donald Trump's ballroom construction. Now, I don't know exactly what's, what's going to happen with this whole thing, but I don't think that they're going to be able to leave just the mess that's there now. Right. They've already started some of the project and I don't know how far they went, but we're going to get into that. And then if we have time, we're going to talk about a Thai teen that went on a rampage and killed seven people. He killed his grandparents, then he killed five teachers at the school that he was in in Thailand. So we'll talk about that. But right now I want you to head on over to timcast.com and join Tim cast timcast.com you can get into our discord and you can go ahead and meet other people that are like minded. There's a lot of people that have, have started relationships. There's a couple people got married. There's some kids that have popped out. There's something like 20,000 or 30,000 people in the Tim Cast Discord. So get in there and meet like minded people. The, the Community is the most important thing about what we do here at Tim Cast is you guys that watch the show and get together with each other, start your own podcast and and find like minded people and and discuss the important things that that mean a lot to this country. So get head on over to timcast.com and join the Discord. Then head on over to rumble.com, become a member so you can watch the after show. We do the after show Monday through Thursday. We do usually about an hour. People from the Discord are able to call in, ask questions of our guests, ask questions of the people on the panel. So head on over to rumble.com and become a member. Also smash the like button. Share the show with all of your friends. Share it with everyone you know. Joining us today to talk about all the things I mentioned earlier and a bunch more is Steve Loves Ammo.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Hey, how's it going guys?

[Phil]

How you doing, Steve? Who are you and what do you do?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

My pseudonym online is Steve Loves Ammo. I do social media full time. I was blessed to have grown an audience to be able to do that. I'm on TikTok, YouTube. I'm not, excuse me. Facebook, Instagram and X is my largest platform. I'm a 2A absolutist Purple Heart recipient. Today is national Purple Heart day. United States army veteran and just trying to make this country great, greater, one tweet at a time.

[Phil]

Awesome, man. Olivia's here.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

What's up, guys? Hey, it's Olivia, community manager here at Timcast.

[Ian]

Two questions before we go. What's your favorite ammo?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

All of them.

[Ian]

And then what caused the purple Heart?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

It was a 107 millimeter rocket that landed about 3ft away from me, bro. Yeah.

[Ian]

Good to see you, man.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah, I'm glad to be alive and be here.

[Phil]

The purple heart, also known as the enemy marksmanship bad.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Absolutely.

[Phil]

All right, so we're going to jump

[Carter Banks]

right into it today is what you're saying.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah. Shout out to Carter Banks on.

[Carter Banks]

Thank you for your service, by the way and it's great having you here.

[Ian]

Holy. That must have been intense.

[Phil]

All right, so we're going to jump right into it. Saudi Arabia from Reuters. Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan pledge mutual defense as Middle east turmoil escalates, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Turkey signed a joint defense agreement on Mecca in in Mecca on Friday wedding sunny Muslim US Allies alarmed at a regional conflagration that has brought Iranian missiles fire into Gulf oil exporters. Iran and its allies have been firing on Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states and blockading energy shipments since the U. S and Israel attacked on February 28th in a major escalation after years of regional tumult. The Mecca joint defense agreement is intended to strengthen collective deterrence against any act of aggression and stipulates that an armed attack against any of the three would be regarded as an attack on all they said in a joint statement. However, the statement did not give specifics on the commitments each had and accepted. It was not clear how far the agreement would bind them to any particular military action in each other's defense. Turkish Vice president Sevell Yamales said the agreement was not aimed at any specific country. A Turkish official added that it was purely defensive and did not abrogate any existing agreements the countries had with other states. Referring to NATO, the three nations share concerns about the increasingly aggressive military stance of both Israel and the revolutionary shi Iran as the as their longtime US Ally struggles to contain regional upheaval that has caused a global energy crisis. Now, like I said earlier, this is, this is going to bring up a lot of questions and a lot of, a lot of. First of all, Pakistan is a nuclear armed country, right? Pakistan. And they have nuclear weapons because India has nuclear weapons. India and Pakistan have just in the past, I think 18 months or something like that had a. Had some fighting going on. There were, there were a couple dogfights, I guess, fighters that got into it with each other. They were shooting missiles at each other. Obviously everyone knows that Saudi Arabia has been on the receiving end of missiles and drone strikes from Iran and then NATO is, I'm sorry, Turkey is a NATO ally. Right. So what does this mean for NATO and the United States? I can completely envision Iran sending more drones into Saudi infrastructure. Right. Their, their oil production facilities because they're looking to cause problems because of the U. S and Israel striking Iran. Does that mean that Turkey is going to be involved with strikes on Iran? If Iran strikes Turkey, does that mean that all of NATO is then going to be dragged into a war against Iran? What does that mean for Pakistan if there are more, 10. If there are more escalations to the conflict between India because the U. S is fairly, has got fairly good relations with India, does that mean that Saudi Arabia and Turkey have to get into conflict with India? This really just makes a big mess that has a lot of implications for the United States.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I mean on its face it looks like it's like, okay, they just made a pact, what's the big deal? But having like, what is clause 5 in NATO which is an attack on one is attack on all joint defense. It's. It's not good. It's not. I've always said that's a problem with NATO because that's a lot of countries. First of all, there's what like 20 something members of NATO.

[Ian]

31, 31, 32.

[Olivia]

32. It keeps growing. So, um, but so that now that Turkey's involved in two of them of wildly different regions because obviously the United States and NATO that was a direct reaction to the Warsaw Pact. But that era is coming, gone. Now we're seeing this with a new conflict. And again we are, we're allies with India. That's a big problem for our relationship with India and our relationship with any allies of India as well. So having a mutual defense packed like that can be devastating. So people see this. So I guess the Middle east, who cares? It has a direct impact on us because if India attacks Turkey for being allied with Pakistan, we get pulled into that and so does like most of Europe at that point because of clause five, which is part of the NATO whatever their charter, I guess is what it's called the NATO charter.

[Ian]

So we have the US is in multiple defensive pacts. For the record, I think it's in five different ones. There's one with Japan specifically. There's one with South Korea specifically.

[Olivia]

Yep.

[Ian]

One with the Philippines specifically. These are all like World War II holdover defensive pacts. One with New Zealand and Australia called the ANZUS Treaty, and then one called the Rio Treaty, which is Brazil.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah.

[Ian]

In the Americas that are. So the thing about defensive pacts, World War I got started because of a series of defensive pacts that triggered. So like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are in a defensive pact now America's in a defensive pact with Turkey, NATO. So if Pakistan gets attacked by random country and then Turkey responds by attacking random country and then random country attacks Turkey in response to the response. The Americans then are bound to attack random country now because their ally as Turkey was attacked. So what triggered World War I? You know, Austria, Hungary attacked. Like somehow you find the British declaring war on the Austrians because they attacked, you know, the French who had been attacked by the Germans and were responding. So that that alone is, is concerning. But the other aspect of it is like it's a temperature check on where the minds of the Turks are because the Turks are the bridge between the Russians and the Mediterranean now that they control Crimea. And if the. This is a much better news than if the Turks were to have signed a defensive pact with the Russians, for instance. So at least it's like. I mean, I, I see that they want to buffer and protect themselves against the Israeli aggression and against the Iranian aggression.

[Carter Banks]

Right now.

[Ian]

They want to kind of, you know, the Israelis, I think, have their eyes set on controlling the Middle east pretty seriously. And it's like, you know, I applaud

[Phil]

the, the,

[Ian]

the independence of these people. Like, they're not bowing, waiting for the Americas to take over and protect them. At least they're, they're kind of.

[Olivia]

I mean, sure, but they're protected by the United States anyways. They know by Turkey being in that agreement, the US is indirectly and directly involved. This is the problem with multipolar systems, like too many powers.

[Phil]

It's worth noting that Turkey has been kind of trying to play both sides for a while. Right. So Turkey bought S400 missiles from Moscow. Right. That, in my opinion, shouldn't be like the NATO alliance shouldn't allow. No, yeah, they should, you know, Turkey to purchase. But, you know, he's been, he, you know, Erdogan has, has been trying to strengthen Turkey's position by playing both sides. And while I don't think that, that, that there's a significant chance of Russia getting involved in basically any kind of conflict right now, they're so bogged down in Ukraine and they've had, they, they've shown that their, their army is not prepared for a, like a serious conflict with NATO. Right. The, the thing that, that Russia has is nuclear weapons. How well they work or how, how capable they are, I don't know. But if there's one thing that, that has been shown over the past four years is that big Russia can't even beat little Russia, never mind all of NATO. Right. So I think the real implications are things like India and Pakistan, mostly Iran and Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent Turkey and anyone else. But the, the problem is, if Turkey decides that they're going to attack someone, and in this case it's, it would most likely be Iran and Iran strikes back. Does that bring in Europe? Because Europe has been really hesitant about getting involved in Iran. Right. You know, the US has been saying, look, we want you to do this, we want you to do that. France has said they're going to do stuff that's never materialized. The British are like, hell no, we're not getting involved. So what does that mean? Germany obviously has no interest in getting involved in Iran, but an attack on Turkey could either trigger Article 5 or it could actually start. It could mean the, the dissolution of

[Steve Loves Ammo]

the whole NATO pact, I'm thinking. Well, because there Weren't specifics given between the, the coalition? I think this might be like a kind of like, hey, back off Iran. Like we have these three countries that

[Phil]

are bomb surround you.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Right? And maybe, hey, stop droning Saudi Arabia. You know, we have two other countries that have our back. But this could deteriorate really fast if things go south.

[Olivia]

You know, that could be around. Or India. It could be either one because India could mess with Pakistan, which really wasn't the reason for this pact being made. But now that they've done that and then Turkey gets involved and then the US has to get involved. If they attack Turkey, it's a huge mess. And so I get what you were saying, Ian, about having these packs can be a good thing because it's like independence of the people. But at the same time there's so many of them at this point.

[Phil]

Well, I mean, doesn't the, the existence of the pack indicate that it's not independence thereafter? Right. If you make these kind of packs, you know, that their ability to make them.

[Olivia]

I guess kind of to Ian's point, he was saying it can be a good thing for these countries to do it without the US having to back them. But then the problem is when you have Turkey involved. Turkey is the, the problem here is Turkey is the one thing that could actually screw this all up and create World War iii basically. Well, really scary.

[Ian]

It's in such a unique position being a part of NATO now, part of this other. What is it called, the Mecca Agreement. And being Constantinople, you know, Istanbul is the waterway between the Russians and the Europe. So like they have like a tri, a triple, triple, three different things they're trying to balance all at once. The thing about defensive pacts though is realistically, if the Iranians drone bombed Saudi Arabian American military bases and then Turkey felt like they had to respond and attacked Iran, and then Iran was like, all right, then we're attacking Turkey. That shouldn't trigger NATO because the Turks aggressed on Iran. It's kind of we wash our hands of any response to your aggression towards the Iranians. We don't have to defend you if you attacked someone and they're attacking you back. You're not supposed to have to. I mean, as far as I know, maybe the treaty says otherwise, but usually that, that absolves you of your, of your duties. If, if your partner, your defensive partner were to aggress.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

As NATO responded to this.

[Phil]

This just happened today, I think. Let's see.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I'd be curious to see what.

[Phil]

Yeah, it was just updated August 7th. So I haven't, I don't think there has been a response, and I wouldn't expect one any kind of statement until at least Monday.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Right.

[Phil]

But yeah, I mean, look, the, whether or not Turkey can, whether or not an attack on Turkey, once Turkey was to become a belligerent, whether or not that attack would trigger NATO, it would put pressure on NATO. And the question is, can, can NATO, you know, can NATO survive that? For the most part, NATO is, you know, obviously the U.S. is the, is the, the big dog in NATO, right. After the U.S. i think Germany has the biggest army now. And, and, and so I know the Germans aren't interested in getting involved at all. Germany has their own problems, you know, dealing with, with their immigration and, and trying to stamp out the AFD and stuff. Right? So I don't think that the, that Germany is looking for this, but it, it, in my estimation, the, the biggest issue that this would, would cause would be, you know, does NATO survive this or is this the catalyst that actually starts tearing NATO apart?

[Ian]

I got a fact check on troop size. US is the number one in NATO. Number two is Turkey. US has 1.3 million active personnel, 1.3 million. Turkey has 400,000, roughly. France number three with 200,000, and then Germany's fourth, just under 200,000, and Poland also 200,000.

[Olivia]

I mean, I'm very much of the we don't even need NATO anymore side of things. Like, it's just, to me, it's pretty useless. The US doesn't need it. It needs the US and so if the US Were to pull out of this, I know Trump had mentioned at some point possibly doing that, I was like, yes, like, please do it. He ended up not doing it. I was super bummed. But any kind of organization like this, everyone knows, is like my least favorite thing ever. So I, I wouldn't, I don't want Naito to crumble because there's some attack on Turkey and then, like, I want it to not be for that reason. But I'm also not opposed to NATO's falling apart. It's been how many years since the Cold War, and we still have Naito, which we, we don't need it.

[Phil]

I think one of the, one of the other things that, that NATO has, has been at least part of is to try to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons. Right. Without NATO and without, you know, the US like you had mentioned before the show, there are nuclear, there are U.S. nuclear missiles in Turkey, and that was,

[Carter Banks]

you know, to deter and that would be possible. If we didn't have NATO. Right.

[Olivia]

They could do it.

[Phil]

Well, I mean you could do individual ones, but the whole point of NATO was, you know, at first it was to deter the Soviets in the Warsaw Pact, but having, without the Warsaw Pact you still have to worry about Russia. Right. Russia's not an ally, they're not a friend to the West. They have their own, you know, their own desires. And, and obviously, you know, reuniting Ukraine with Russia is probably, is number one. But there are other countries that used to be part of the Warsaw Pact that the Soviets would like to see or the Russians would like to see back under Soviet influence. And those countries, a lot of those countries have become NATO members. So for Russia, the dissolution of NATO would be the best thing that, that they could imagine.

[Olivia]

Treaties that exist, there's the Treaty of Non Proliferation on Nuclear Weapons which is a UN backed treaty that's been active since I think 1970 or something. And that is they check or they have the IAEA which is the International Atomic Energy Agency and they can check for building up stockpiles and stuff like that. There are other ways to do it.

[Phil]

There are other ways to do it. But the, the fact that NATO con, that NATO exists and NATO countries know that Article 5 will be triggered. Yeah, that's the, that's what they consider the, the, the, the real reassurance you can have, you can have an agreement to not develop nuclear weapons. But that, that isn't, that doesn't give you a reason not to. Right. That doesn't give you the protection that NATO does. You can say, oh, we don't want to develop nuclear weapons or we agree not to, but it's just a piece of paper. At the very least if, if you're in NATO you can say, look, if you attack us, you're attacking all of NATO and that will activate the United States.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I think again that that's important. Having those things is important, but at the same time it's just, I think because the US has gotten involved in so many Middle Eastern conflicts, I'm like fatigued and I'm like, could you not just like not do that? Like that's great. We could just maybe not, but I understand why for Europe specifically, it's very important for their security. But coming from a U. S. Perspective, it needs us.

[Phil]

NATO needs us.

[Olivia]

Yeah, definitely they need us. We don't need them.

[Phil]

No, no, no. I mean the US does the heavy lifting for NATO for sure.

[Ian]

It probably, I don't think that the Chinese would ever invade Alaska, Canada, United States, mainland. I don't think they would even if we weren't in NATO. But it does offer severe protection against that too, because it would open up a Western front for the Chinese or southwestern front if they were to tangle. If any country were to tangle, they'd have. All of Europe wouldn't attack them.

[Phil]

You know, China doesn't border like European countries, not directly, but. And you've got, and to be honest with you, you've got like the, the, the Himalayas are the best defense against basically anything.

[Ian]

Yeah, they've got a lot of Western buffers, but having a Western, Having Western agre, like, pressure would be very bad for them. And the Russians aren't necessarily, like, in a hurry to ally militarily with the Chinese. So it's not that NATO has no. Does no benefit is what I'm saying. There's a lot of reasons why.

[Olivia]

I just think it would harm us more than it hurts us if we were to get involved in the conflict.

[Ian]

Oh, if some cheap European country got attacked by Russia and the US had to declare war on Russia, it would be the end of the world. Like, we can't.

[Phil]

What do you, what do you mean? That.

[Ian]

What cheap European or some.

[Phil]

Like, I don't think, I don't think that Belarus is part of NATO, is it?

[Ian]

Not yet.

[Phil]

I don't think so.

[Olivia]

Belgium is not. Belarus.

[Carter Banks]

Poland.

[Ian]

I like the polls.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Lichtenstein.

[Ian]

Yeah, Lichtenstein got their ass licked by the Russians. They'd be. We'd have no choice but to intervene.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I think they have like 15 people in the military.

[Ian]

Do they?

[Olivia]

That might be high. That's like on a good day, probably. Yeah.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Fact check me on that one.

[Olivia]

No, I mean, there's a ton of them. So we're taught Luxembourg is on there as well.

[Phil]

Well, yeah, but I mean, Luxembourg is like right in the middle of Europe. A lot of these countries that are small countries, they're in the middle of Europe, they're going to be attacked. They're kind of. They're kind of a part of it, you know, whether they like it or not. Right.

[Olivia]

Like, what if they catch a straight north Macedonia? Like, are you kidding me? We. They catch a stray and now we're at war.

[Ian]

So false flags too, you know?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Hey, that Russian drone, I'm. I promise it was Russian. And now we're using that as a cast spelling.

[Phil]

So Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are Baltic states that used to be. They used to be part of the Soviet Union. Those are the three. And then. And those all share a border with Russia. So And I think that, you know, I don't know for sure that Vladimir. Vladimir Putin intends to or would like to retake them, but I imagine, because he said one of the greatest things. That's one of the worst things that's ever happened to the world. One of the greatest tragedies, I think, is the way that he articulated it was the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Like, there's a lot of people, because he's a k. He was a KGB guy. He was a true believer in, in the Soviet Union. And the dissolution of. It was, you know, it was a big deal.

[Ian]

So I want to hear that quote. Do you know what the, what the context of that quote was or.

[Phil]

Yeah. He said that the dissolution of the Soviet Union was one of the greatest tragedies.

[Ian]

Was it. Was he saying the way it was dissolved or just that it was.

[Phil]

No, he's very pro Soviet Union.

[Ian]

The way it was dissolved was a little tragic in that it was a bunch of oligarchs that just chose to,

[Phil]

you know, that part.

[Ian]

That's business opportunities.

[Phil]

That's not the way it was dissolved. That, like the, the way it was dissolved is. Is that. Or that's the, the. That's what happened after it was dissolved. The oligarch stuff. Right.

[Ian]

All the people that had formation of the Ukraine. Yeah.

[Olivia]

Robert Chevy Yeltsin became a little too friendly with the US Started to kind of phase out of all of the, like, Stalinism, and then that's how it ultimately fell apart. It was economic collapse at the end of the day because socialism doesn't work. Go figure. But that was, at the end of the day, getting a little too buddy buddy with the west, getting too Western, getting away from those ideals is how it fell apart.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

So unceremonious. It just kind of stopped.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Putin's perspective on the dissolution of the Soviet Union kind of gives you a perspective on what he would want if NATO were to collapse. He would 100% try to reclaim those lands.

[Phil]

Whether. Whether he can or not. I don't know whether he has the. I mean, I don't know if he has the time because like I said, like, the Soviet military, the. Or the. I'm sorry, the Russian military is not like, it's just not the monster that we thought it was. You know, the US and, and NATO support of Ukraine has basically created a stalemate, and both sides are basically conscripting people to, to throw them into the meat grinder. And Russia just doesn't have the conventional forces to, to take back Ukraine. Obviously. I don't Think they could take the, the, the other three? I don't think they could take Latvia, Estonia or Lithuania with the, like there would be, they're NATO countries. So even if the US or if NATO dissolved, they would, they would still seek out help from other European nations. And other European nations have a significant, significant incentive to help prevent Russia from, you know, starting to gobble up other countries.

[Ian]

I got this, the, the reference for the quote that you're talking about from Putin in 2005. He said the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrop the century indicating because 25 million ethnic Russians or Russian speaking people suddenly found themselves living outside of Russian borders. And so they were sort of something. What happened with like the Germans after World War I, they split off the east and turned it into Poland. And so all the ethnic Germans started getting executed and just treated like second class citizens. Could have been happening with the Russians. And then later in that same speech, Putin said anyone that wants to restore the Soviet Union has no brains because that old system did not work. But he wanted to re. Empower Russia itself. So I don't think he's a Soviet, I don't think he wants communism, but I do, I understand that he saw some, some horror take place.

[Olivia]

He's saying that those, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus are Russian. Yeah. So he's saying that like even if he's saying I don't want to go back to that exact system, he still wants to restore it to the size it was.

[Phil]

He want, he doesn't want to bring back the Politburo and stuff. He wants to be, he wants to be the dictator of. Yeah, because that's what he is in Russia. You know, he was in 2005, I think he stepped down or I'm not sure when exactly, but in the, in the aughts. He stepped down as president and Medvedev became the president for a little while.

[Ian]

It was like his number two guy.

[Phil]

Yeah. So Medvedev became the president and then Medvedev stepped down and Putin went back into office as the president and he's been the president ever since. So essentially he's, you know, he's a dictator. He's he there, they, they have elections, just I think. Yeah, but you know, he always wins.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And he's been there for the past, what, 26 years at least or so

[Steve Loves Ammo]

he's been named Russia's sexiest man every year. Right.

[Phil]

Good for him. You know, really sexy. Time doesn't touch him, you know, but yeah, the point is like he would be the dictator of those countries. He, maybe he wouldn't want it to be like the Soviet Union, but, but the reason he wouldn't want it to be like the Soviet Union is because he wants to have total control, not have the, the, you know, the polit bureau or have the.

[Carter Banks]

The Soviet Union fell.

[Ian]

So I'm, I'm a steelman Putin a little bit here.

[Olivia]

And you guys, for context, I can give you his positions. So he has held multiple positions. He was prime minister from 2000 to 2008. Before that. Was he president before that? I don't know if he was. Yes, he was in office just before that and then became prime minister, which is basically the same thing in these countries. Like, same difference. And then went back to being president after being prime minister. President, prime minister, president again. And he has literally held office since I was one year old.

[Phil]

Yeah, which was when?

[Olivia]

1999.

[Ian]

Because you're not allowed to serve multiple consecutive terms as president. I think that's why they did that. They gave.

[Olivia]

Not anymore.

[Phil]

First he wasn't, but now, you know, since 2008, so almost 20 years he's been the president.

[Ian]

So my philosophy of steel Manning, what he's doing is he thinks that if he were to leave office that some bureaucrat liberal economic goon would come in and sell the country out to the machine state and then that would be the. We'd all become technocratic spy tech everywhere.

[Phil]

Are you saying that because you think that or are you saying that because you've read some stuff?

[Ian]

No, I just. I get a feeling it feels like. Like he doesn't want to let go because he thinks it's going to get worse if he lets go. It's not like he's trying to like be the leader all the time everywhere, but he's like, I don't see a better option yet. If you show me one, I'll step down. I think.

[Phil]

I don't think that that's an option. I don't think that. I don't think if you showed him a better option, he would consider it a better option. I think he would probably want to.

[Ian]

He's so calcified or he can fight at this point that he's like nothing. He's looking for. He's been looking for. For so long.

[Phil]

I don't think. I don't think he's looking for a

[Ian]

way to continue to look.

[Olivia]

No matter.

[Phil]

I don't think that he's looking.

[Carter Banks]

Probably wouldn't feel safe if he left off.

[Olivia]

Yes, well, he made it so that he didn't have to leave until pretty much he's dead. So they had limits on their presidency. Their presidencies are six year terms and he finished his two terms. But then in 2020, a law reset his two terms so he can serve two more six year terms, another 12 years. And by the way, they do their elections. That's not until 2036. And how old is Putin? Let's see here.

[Phil]

Pushing 70, I think.

[Olivia]

Right. So by the time that 2036 comes around, like he's going to die in office. Absolutely not. Not in like a someone's gonna hurt him way. It's just he's 73.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Carter Banks]

I think he'll live pretty old.

[Phil]

He's actually, he's actually, he's talked. Him and Xi Jinping were heard on a hot mic talking about living to 120.

[Olivia]

Well, they'll reset it again. Oh yeah. In 2036. And then he'll have 12 more years.

[Phil]

He's, he's in no hurry to go anywhere at all, that's for sure.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

All I'm saying, if there's a better option in Russia, that person would wind up in a heavily tinted vehicle.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Whisked away, I think.

[Phil]

What happened to the leader of the Wagner group? Like they, he, he tried to, you know, there was, there was a coup against Putin and then Putin was like, oh no, I'll forgive. And then just a couple, couple months later, his helicopter got shot down with Sam.

[Olivia]

What a crazy coincidence.

[Phil]

Crazy, crazy, crazy coincidence.

[Ian]

What was the guy whose car, they shot him outside his car on a bridge.

[Phil]

I don't know, people, crazy people that, that go after Putin or speak out too strongly against Putin end up dead,

[Olivia]

you know, so crazy.

[Phil]

Yeah, it was eat polonium sandwiches or they fall out of buildings or what have you.

[Carter Banks]

A building thing. Yeah, that's, that happened a lot.

[Phil]

There have been multiple people that have died under suspicious circumstances for criticizing Putin's

[Olivia]

cousin or whatever that just his uncle. His uncle, that was it. Killed in Singapore or whatever.

[Ian]

Like that's maybe a cousin too.

[Olivia]

I don't know.

[Phil]

Who's this?

[Olivia]

Kim Jong Un's like, oh yeah, yeah. Like he just somehow found himself in the middle of a crime in an airport.

[Ian]

And this guy I was thinking of is Boris Nemtsov. He was a vocal, he was like a vocal opponent of Putin for years. And in 2015, he got shot and killed while walking across a bridge near the Kremlin.

[Carter Banks]

Crazy.

[Ian]

Who knows what happened?

[Phil]

I don't, I legitimate, I don't think that. And I understand you're trying to steal, man, or you were trying to steal me in his position.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Don't think that he's actually looking for a way out.

[Ian]

I'm trying. I'm looking for, like, what is going on in his mind because we all. From this perspective, he looks like a dictocrat, like a authoritarian, you know, power monger. But in his brain, like, he must think he's doing good.

[Carter Banks]

Like, why probably does.

[Olivia]

He thinks of himself as an idol. He absolutely thinks he is, like, the best.

[Carter Banks]

That's kind of what Stalin and Lenin both thought they were doing real socialist good work. They actually thought it was going to work, which is the scariest thing.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Have you seen the photos of him riding a horse shirtless? That's what he thinks of himself.

[Ian]

The process, where you want to, no matter what, support the process. George Washington, I'll step down. I'm giving power up. You need to respect the process so that we maintain, like, a democratic republic. As soon as one guy refuses to let go the whole process, you're spitting on the process. So Putin is spitting on the process. But then the other aspect of it is like, if you just play laissez faire liberalism, the communists will take over and destroy you from within. So you have to kind of be brutal and bend and break the rules from time to time to maintain power and authority. So Putin's like, I see how he wavers between the two.

[Phil]

Well, that's, that's. Well, first of all, I wouldn't. I don't think that we can classify Russia as a. A, you know, democratic republic.

[Ian]

I think it's a federal.

[Phil]

They call it. They call it the Russian Federation, I

[Ian]

think, federation of states, but it's oblasts,

[Olivia]

I don't know, but oblast regions.

[Phil]

But, but, yeah. So I think that. Trying to articulate it in a way that's similar to the United States, I think is a. Is an error in classification. It's a. It's a different system. And because of that, like, they don't. I don't know. Do they have a parliament in Russia?

[Olivia]

I think they have something that resembles that.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Maybe just a placeholder.

[Phil]

Yeah. I mean, and, and if they do, it certainly doesn't have the ability to restrict their president, you know.

[Olivia]

Absolutely. I mean, they're going to empower him because they're scared of him.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

So semi presidential republic. So obviously power of the president, the prime minister. They have a cabinet, they have a federal assembly. Oh, that's right. I studied this in college. Totally forgot all about Putin.

[Carter Banks]

Kind of has, like, Seniority as far as having been around the longest and worked under all the other people that have been there.

[Olivia]

And it was kgb. So they have a Duma, which is basically like our house, and then they have a Federation Council, which is the upper house, which is two people from each region. So like our Senate. So they call that the Federal Assembly. Similar to ours, but different.

[Phil]

Similar in, in the way that it's organized. But the, the president has, I mean, you know, has the ability to off his political opponents literally.

[Olivia]

So structurally similar in practice. Not so.

[Phil]

Not so much. Not so much. So, yeah, I, I guess back to the, the initial topic. What is the, what is, you know, the, the Mecca agreement mean for NATO? And, and it, it really is just kind of a mess, you know, because obviously the issues with Turkey, the issues that are currently going on with Iran, it could, it could be a complete and total just pile of spaghetti.

[Ian]

I think it really indicates that, like the actual threat is not the Russians, but the Israelis and the Iranians, that, that it's not either one of them. It's the conflict that's brewing as a result of that.

[Olivia]

Middle east is a problem. It's always been a conflict zone. So having any pacts like that, it's going to cause problems because there will never be peace in the Middle east, no matter what anyone says. There will never be peace there in some form or fashion because it's too hot. That's what people say.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Very hot.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah, you've been there.

[Olivia]

But it goes back to biblical times.

[Phil]

Yeah, I mean, yeah. I don't know. All right, look, let's, let's jump to, let's jump to this story here. The U.S. job market stalled in July as employers cut 23,000 jobs, delivering political setback to Trump. Now this is from the AP Washington. The US Job market stalled unexpectedly last month, delivering a political blow to President Donald Trump three months ahead of term elections and complicating decisions making for the inflation fighters at the US Federal Reserve. Employers cut 23,000 jobs in July and the Labor Department revisions slashed 103 jobs from May and June payroll. The unemployment rate fell, but for the wrong reasons. Thousands of people dropped out of the labor markets, so fewer people were competing for work. The job numbers from the Labor Department Friday marked a sharp setback for the American labor market and for Trump. Less than three months before his Republican Party seeks to keep full control of Congress in the midterm. Election Forecaster had expected job creation to approach 100,000 last month. Local public schools cut 50,000 jobs in July. Restaurants and bars 26,000, retailers 19,000. Now that the 50,000 jobs in local public schools matters because this happens every year, right. In the summertime, public schools cut jobs because obviously kids go home so they don't need to have as many people on staff. The 4.1 unemployment rate was the lowest since June 2025, again June of last year. But it only fell because 264000 people dropped out of the labor market last month. The share of those working or looking for work fell to 61% of the low, the lowest since February 2021. We can't really put lipstick on a pig here, said Daniel Zhao, chief economist at the job website Glassdoor. This is not a great report for July. And I did wonder like how much of the, the decrease in employment has been because of deportations. Right. So TPS ended temporary protected status just recently ended. And so they're able to deport those people. But there have been deportations on the order of 4,000 people a day since about January. You know how much of the, the jobs being cut or lack of employment is because of deportations.

[Ian]

If someone had been here off the books illegally and they were, could they have been on unemployment?

[Phil]

Not no, they couldn't be on unemployment, but they could. They would go to the total job number. They would be considered under people working and stuff.

[Ian]

If it was like, because you're saying these people like how many 660% of the workforce is now looking for work before is like 40% less people are actually looking for jobs. I don't know. I don't think that would track that. That would have anything to do with illegal immigration because they weren't on the books anyway.

[Phil]

Well, that doesn't mean that they're not, they're not, they're not, they're not on the books. But that doesn't mean that the employers aren't counting them as, as employees. Right.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

It's like they leave out a lot of numbers for optics. Right?

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Like during the, the auto pen presidency, we saw how many government jobs were added and they counted them as regular workforce jobs. And we're like so. But that's released later. So without knowing like the details behind, it's kind of hard to decipher for me.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Does it go up and down frequently like a sine wave, the job market, is it constantly. The unemployment numbers?

[Phil]

It does, it does tend to fluctuate a little bit. But you get, you'll basically, you'll get a trend like so if the, the economy is, is shrinking Right. So a quarter of, of lower gdp, two of those in a, in a row historically has been a recession. Right. But they changed the rules during the Biden administration.

[Olivia]

Of course, they moved the goalpost.

[Phil]

Yeah. So I'm not sure exactly how much, how much it fluctuates, but like I said earlier, the, the numbers from the, from what is it? Public schools. 50,000 jobs in July. Right. That's, that's because of, of summer break schools shrinking for the summertime and the previous, the 4.1 unemployment rate was the lowest since June 2025. It's. There's a significant shrink in the summertime because schools stop, you know, having classes.

[Olivia]

Yeah. I used to work at a school and we would have summer school. I was working in middle school. It would cut by sweet three wings in the school for the different grades and it would cut to like half of a single wing, which was not a lot. And it was maybe 45 to 50 students max. And this is like a big school. So we probably had, I'd say 40, maybe 45 and I mean maybe four teachers and then support staff, which is what I was doing. So it does cut quite a bit and they're considered not working right now, even if they're getting paid, depending on how they take their pay. So it is going to show that. But I'm wondering what the other reasons could be for people not being in the job market. Like, I know the job market's not to going great right now. It's hard to. Yeah.

[Phil]

Restaurants and bars is probably restaurants and bars and retailers had a total of restaurants and bars of 26,000. Retailers were 19,000. So that's, you know, significant. That's, it's. It's nothing to sneeze at. It's not as many as public schools. But when you lo. When you have, you know, shrinkage in restaurants and bars and retailers, that kind of indicates that the economy is slowing a little bit, that people aren't going out and spending as much money. And this is. This kind of ties into the, you know, burrito gate that's been going on on X. Right. People are complaining because, you know, burritos shouldn't cost this much money. And, and you know, maybe they have a good argument, but the response has been terrible. You know, when you have job numbers that are, that are less than you had hoped for, like they were talking about, I think they said they were hoping for jobs to be up by. What is it, let me see, 100, 000, I believe. Yeah, I think they said they were Hoping that jobs are going to be up by a hundred thousand and then they're down by, you know, 75 or, or not 80, 000 or whatever. That's a significant difference. And you've got people that are young, specifically young people, excuse me, you know, saying, look, it's tough out here. It's hard for us to find a job. We can't get work that pays us enough. The, the people that do have jobs, like, we can't make ends meet, we don't make enough money. And then the response from, you know, boomers, from older people is like, oh, well, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Phil]

And I've made this point a couple times. Like you can't talk to young people that are not go getters as if they were go getters because the go getters are already out there going and getting it right. Like if you're a motivated person and you're like, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to make something out of nothing, you're already doing it. So the pull yourself up by the bootstraps is a terrible, terrible line. And I'm, I've been focusing lately a little, a little bit on how important messaging is. Right. The Democrats have, have got great messaging because they're telling people, we're going to take care of you. And you're telling people that don't have anything. They're like, you know, you can't say, oh, you have to worry about your property. Young people are using klana for burritos or klarna, Klarna for burritos. Right?

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Phil]

They're, they're payment plans for their fast foods. Right. That, that, that is a terrible way to live your life. And when someone says, we're going to help you find, fix that, we're going to make sure that you have enough money to pay your bills.

[Olivia]

You don't have to work harder.

[Phil]

Yeah. And you don't have to work any harder. You don't have to go out there and get it. We're going to bring it right to you. You know that that's going to convince people. It's not a great way to actually have your country organized at all. It's unsustainable. Specifically when you got so much, you got so much money going to older people through Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Right. That's going to be insolvent in four, in like what, six years? 20, 32 or 33 is when Social Security ends. And all that's going to Be is they're going to cut everyone's benefits, which means people that are, are living on Social Security, that are, that, you know, are just getting by on their Social Security, they're going to have 25 of their benefits cut, you know, and that opens the door.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

It does on the other side where, hey, we'll take, we'll cover that cost that you're missing and. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

[Phil]

No, go ahead. Good.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

No, I'm just saying, like the gop, like, they're still in that old school mindset where, you know, I walk to school up, up, uphill in the snow twice a day, you know, oh, you're not making enough money, Get a second job, get a third job. It's. These people are tired. This is the, like being on social media versus real life is way different. And I think that's what needs to be addressed. Like, you see some accounts on X or whatever, you know, just do more, do more. But they're like, people are tired and people want to make an adequate wage, just live their life.

[Phil]

And, and look, the. You can be correct and say, look, you just got to work harder. You can, there's, there's opportunities out there. Go out and find them. That can be true, but that doesn't make it a good message. It doesn't mean that people are going to go out and vote for you.

[Olivia]

Oh yeah, like Crenshaw's tweet. We talked about this yesterday in Pop Culture Crisis. Horrible post, by the way. Like, like, I get why he lost for multiple reasons, but as someone who's elder, Gen Z, I guess I, I see this a lot in my generation. I see a lot of people saying that they feel, like, helpless and they're doing klarna on doordash because they don't think they'll ever buy a house. They don't see it ever happening. So why should they even try is what they're kind of thinking to themselves. Now we need to actually encourage young people to go out and do things. The Democrats win because they tell them you can get more by doing less. We need to show people that you get more by doing more. And by, by doing less, you're going to get less. But they're not seeing that correlation because they're being told differently.

[Phil]

Yeah, I mean, how do you motivate people to do more? You know, when, when it, when they feel like, you know, the whole world is stacked against them. John Doyle had a post the other day and he was talking about, you know, young people have the right to Expect the same standard of living as their parents had. And I'm not sure that they have a, have that right. But it's completely reasonable. Sure, you know, it's completely reasonable to think that like, I don't, I don't think you can say, well, I have a right to this. But it's, it's completely understandable why someone would say, look, man, we live in the age of, of AI and, and cell phones that can do everything for me and everything gets brought right to my house whenever I buy it and etc. Why is my life worse than my parents? Why don't I have the ability to get a house? And sure, we can jump in and say, well, look, it's because the Federal Reserve printed up a bunch of money and it's because the boomers are holding onto their houses and not selling them. And, and that's why, you know, all the things that, that you really want, you don't have the ability, you don't have access to. But it doesn't change the fact that they don't feel good about it and how people vote by how they feel.

[Olivia]

I mean, yeah, there's, there's three big reasons I can see it. And the first one is the biggest one, and that's a lack of accountability for people not taking accountability for their money, their actions, the jobs they're getting, not applic like applying themselves to these things. The second one is that most of the teachers in schools today are basically communists and they're teaching them these things from a young age. It gets instilled in them. It's a lot harder to change someone's mind when they're 25 than when they're 5. So when you teach those things. And then that goes to the third thing, which is parenting. Having strong parents in the household. Like every kid that is raised by somebody here is going to be fine. I'm not worried about anyone's kids here. I'm talking, generally speaking, speaking, weaker parents with weaker messaging. And then they go to school and hear the same thing and they're treating the schools like a second parent or like a daycare. Then they go on into the world to be like, why do I need to take accountability? My life just sucks because that's what I've always been told.

[Phil]

See. But I don't disagree with any of the, the, any of the substance of what you're saying. But how do you articulate that in a way that doesn't sound like pull

[Olivia]

yourself up or offensive? Yeah, you know, feelings based for some.

[Phil]

Exactly. So like My, my concern is, is if you want people to vote for things that are going to be good for the country, how do you tell them in a way that also doesn't sound like, well, it's your responsibility because we've got to hold. And I see this with libertarians and it's one of the reasons why I, I find significant problems with libertarians nowadays. Everybody talks about freedom and liberty and nobody talks about the corresponding responsibility. And it's because it's not really particularly attractive, right? You can get people to, to sign up and hang out with you and you're like, man, you should be free to do whatever you want, blah, blah, blah. And, and whether you're, you know, in the gun industry, in the gun industry and in the gun world, it's a little bit, it's a little bit different because one of the things that we talk about a lot is look, you have a responsibility like you're responsible for every bullet that comes out of your gun, right? If you ever have to use a firearm in a self defense situation, don't think that getting the bad guy is the only thing that, you know, stopping the threat is the only thing. Because if you smoke someone behind him, that's still second degree murder and you're going to catch charge. You know, you're responsible for all that stuff. And so the second Amendment community, the, the libertarians or whatever in the second Amendment community, they're pretty good about it. But the other parts of the Libertarian Party, the people that are just are, are less focused on like 2A issues like talking about, well, you know, you're responsible for these things. You're responsible for, for your liberty. You're, if you're free to do things, you have corresponding responsibility that comes, goes along with it. That is not particularly attractive, but you don't hear anybody in the Libertarian Party talking about it.

[Olivia]

Right? I think the biggest thing is a lot of Gen Z doesn't feel heard. They don't feel like people actually understand them. Because so many boomers are going to point yourself up. For me, just first of all, stop going to boomers for your advice. Like go. You know, maybe Gen X and millennials are better right now. I get we don't always have all of it together, but the boomers clearly aren't doing us any good right now. I'm going to exclude my parents from that one because they're lovely. But it's mostly they need to hear that you understand what they're going through. Look, I see what you're going through when I was 20 something. I really thought I was never going to get a house. I thought all these things were going to be like the world was ending for me as well. Here's the steps I took to get there and here's why. Voting that way can help with those steps to get you there. You need to them that just, just do it and it'll all work itself out. That doesn't help anybody. You're like, well that doesn't help me right now. You have to give them a clear end goal. So you want to buy a house and you feel like it's helpless right now. Well talk to somebody who did just buy a house. Feel like, look at the steps they took. I'm guaranteeing they probably align more with right wing policies and telling them like, look, I never thought I'd own a house. I, I don't own a house right now. But you can say I never thought this would happen to me. Here's everything I did to get there. Here are the policies that help make that work. And that's why you should be voting for our side. So you need to hear them first. First thing is acknowledging how they're feeling and that it's totally valid to feel helpless sometimes in your 20s. But if you're not at least meeting them right there, you're never going to get past that. You have to get to that very first barrier. Then you can have a conversation. But if you don't hear them, that's it.

[Ian]

It's good. This is why I do appreciate the boomers and the silent generation. If you had an opportunity to hang with them. When I ask, like my dad or if my dad's giving me advice. When I was 20, I was serving on a destroyer in the South Pacific because the Vietnam, the Viet Cong were, you know, the Russians were trying to take over. So he was like, he wasn't shooting and killing people. He was in the navy and was able to avoid direct combat. But a lot of our money and our wealth was generated by foreign conquest and winning wars in the 20th century. And when that faded away after the Soviet Union fell fiat, we were like, we need to maintain the standard of living so people can keep buying houses. Let's print it. And now that blew up. So like my grandma when she was 12, her parents begged her to help. Somehow she got a full time job across working same with mine, newspaper stand in 1930 when she was 12 because the great Depression destroyed everybody. So like she worked full time as a 12 year old. Like that was her, her Life. Do your 12 year olds work or do they have full time jobs?

[Olivia]

Laws against that now do they pull

[Ian]

money in for the household? Because like that's what it used to be like for billion for thousands and thousands of years everybody contributed everything they could so you could survive. Now we have this luxury that people have become accustomed to where they think they deserve a house. You had to build your own house back in the day.

[Phil]

Another thing, another thing it's worth noting is like the, the number of people in Gen Z that own a home isn't as small as some people think. Right. Like 25% of Gen Z, which is Gen Z Gen zers that are 25 to 20, 29 own a home.

[Olivia]

It's pretty good.

[Phil]

And it's, it's ages 22 to 24 is between 10 and 15 so it's actually not impossible for young people.

[Carter Banks]

I'd be curious to know like if they had any help from their parents buying the home though.

[Phil]

Well, I mean look, it's possible but I mean if you're talking about you know, 30 to 40% of Gen Z. Yeah. I don't imagine that 34 to 40% of Gen Z had a lot of help from their parents. You know that that's basically reflects kind of, you know, anyone above 50 income, 50 of the, of the, of society. Right. Like if their parents were like above 50 media above median income, you know and that doesn't mean that they have a lot of money. That just means that they're, you know, they're not, you know, the, the lower half.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Isn't, isn't that the same percentage of Gen Z that lives at home as well with their parents? No, no.

[Ian]

I'm being a way to save money to buy a house.

[Olivia]

It is but it's also college debt. That's also another part, a huge part of this is college Deb, like taking out loans when you're 18 years old for a degree you're probably not going to use.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Is insane. I don't know if you guys were all pressured to go to college.

[Carter Banks]

Well it's interesting because like I think at least my parents wanted, they didn't see it coming like this. They thought, you know, that it was going to be just like their generation until I was like trying to figure out what I was going to do and then like nothing my parents were saying was helping. He's like well you know, actually I haven't applied for a job in 25 years so maybe don't listen to what I'm saying. And I was like okay, I'LL figure it out then.

[Phil]

I mean, that was kind of like. My dad was a. He owned a business, so he was a. He was, you know, worked in the trades and worked with his hands all. All his life. So he kind of. There was no pressure for me to go into. Into college. My daughter one or daughter. His daughter. My sister wanted to go into. Into college and she got a degree and doesn't. I don't. She doesn't really use her degree. She went into. I think she got a degree in marketing and she's been a bank manager for.

[Olivia]

That's a better degree than a lot of kids.

[Carter Banks]

Well, yeah. What it meant a lot at one point. Yeah, it did. The previous generation.

[Phil]

It did. But the point that I'm making is that, like the degree that she got that wasn't in the field that she ended up in.

[Olivia]

Sure.

[Phil]

And she was. She went and like I said, she got a marketing degree and she's worked at a bank and she's been a bank manager for something like 30 years or whatever. And, you know, she didn't go into finance when she was in college, but she got out of college, had a degree and got a job. And, you know, she started as a teller and worked her way up and now she manages a brand.

[Olivia]

That's great. That's a thing in trade schools. That's a huge thing. My dad, they're currently selling the company, but my dad's whole career was owning a construction business for commercial glass. He races on that. So what your point is kids living at home. I think so many of them live at home because they see this big mountain of. I don't know, I'm just going to average it out to maybe 30 to 60 grand in debt before you can even think about buying a house. That's $300,000. That's for them. And that's because they feel like. And they're not even using their degrees most of the time. That's the problem. Problem, too is I know multiple people I went to college with. They're doing jobs that have nothing. They could have gotten them in high school.

[Phil]

The only people, the only people that I know that got a college degree and are using it are people that went to music school, musicians, theater.

[Ian]

That's me right now. I mean, I trained on a microphone in college.

[Olivia]

I did. Or doctors, lawyers.

[Phil]

I'm talking about my friends, people that I know. And I'm not talking about theater because I don't know anybody in theater.

[Olivia]

Yeah, right.

[Phil]

I'm relaying a personal anecdote Guys, don't tell me I'm freaking wrong. But the point that I'm making is, like, most of the people that I know that went to college, like, out of all the people that I know that went to college, only the guys that went to like Berkeley or went to, went to state schools for school for, for music Got a B.A. our guitar player, Ollie, got a B.A. in, in music theory. And, and he was, obviously, he was in all that remains for, you know, 20 years. Adam Duckowitz, the guitar player from Guitar player and producer from Kill Switch Engage, he went to Berkeley. Joel went to the other guitar player. Joel went to Berkeley.

[Olivia]

They're also ambitious people, right?

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

These are people that not only got the degree, but wanted the career so badly that they went out and got it after the degree.

[Phil]

But the, the, the idea of going to school for something in particular and then actually going into that field, that doesn't happen a whole lot anymore. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's fairly rare.

[Ian]

It's not the school that makes you want or go into the school field. Like, I had my eyes set on the field since I was 14. College was just a part of the stepping stone to get better at doing it. And so it was worth every 20 grand that I walked away with in debt of it or whatever. It was 40 grand or whatever.

[Olivia]

I've known. But I'm really. My dad was very good at investing. I got very blessed with that. And so I have, I have a master's degree, but no, no student debt. How we manage that, I'm not even going to ask him. I'm good. I'll trust it.

[Phil]

But my sister, she. When she was in college, she worked and she graduated college. Like, she paid for it. You know, she worked part time. I don't remember if it was part time or. Yeah, she had to work part time and she went to UMass, you know, at Amherst. So it wasn't some, like, cheap school. It was expensive and she paid it off. And she didn't take out a lot of debt to do it. She might have had. She might have had some loans. I'm not 100 sure. But, you know, she paid, she worked while she was in college and paid. Paid it off. There's a lot of kids that go to college nowadays and they don't work at all. They live off the loan because you can get such huge loans. And one of the problems you mentioned. Excuse me, you mentioned earlier, Olivia. Is the, the fact that the government guarantees these loans or government is involved in it. And anything the government gets involved, it's involved in the prices go up. Part of the reason why homes are so expensive is because the government's involved in, in homes and home loans and stuff. Part of the reason why schooling is so expensive is because government, you've got government loans, you can get a government loan. And so the schools raise the prices because they know that, you know, an 18 year old can get a loan for 100 grand to pay for school or whatever, and you get locked into this loan for however long. And then people that get out of school, you know, they're paying minimum payments and minimum payments aren't even covering the, the increase in interest. And that's why you get people that are, you know, they're 10 years out of school and they owe more money than when they, you know, got out of school.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I know two people who met in, at a private college, got married. Both of them lived locally but still lived on campus, which cost more money to do that. They could have commuted, they didn't. Now they are married, they live together, they have collectively $120,000 in student loans. Neither of them are using the degrees that they got. I mean, that's insane. That is insane to do that. And I had another point while you were talking and I was like, oh, that's good. But now I can't remember what it was, but that level of debt. Oh, working in college. You should work in college. It, it builds you to then go into the job market prepared. It builds your resume. I worked two, three different jobs in college. I paid for all my own, like groceries and eventually my own apartment. That was the deal. Like, we'll pay for your tuition, but you got to pay for everything else you want to do. You got to pay for your car, you got to pay for all this stuff. And I did. And that taught me that accountability and responsibility to then pay bills and all that and handling finances.

[Phil]

Steve, it's. Did you go to college?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yes, I did. I actually have two degrees.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

One, I went to trade school and I became an electrician. I did that for a while.

[Phil]

It's a gold mine nowadays.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I wish I would continue to do that, but. So I didn't like. So I was a marine electrician. So I worked on like crew boats and barges and, you know, kind of oil field type stuff. And then I joined the army in 2006 and then I used my GI bill to get a bachelor's and occupational health and safety after and I actually used both. So I must be in an anomaly with that. But I think earlier, like, we were talking about how we could change almost the mindset of this country. What's, what's. What has been missing in this country since 2001, in your opinion?

[Phil]

The Twin Towers?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah, I was, yes, but, but okay, what, what, what came after that?

[Ian]

Fantastic.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

The American thing.

[Phil]

I've heard all day, actually, the Twin Towers, Toby. That's going to stay with me for a while, sir.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

But anyways, the American spirit, Remember right after 9, 11, everyone's like pro America. There was like, we were all united on one front and like just the, The American dream has been missing and I'm still laughing at you. But the, the American dream, like, we need to re. Emphasize that messaging, like, have people that have actually worked for what they like Elon Musk, I mean, he's South African, came to this country and now it was, well, former trillionaire. But you know, you, if there's, if you put your mind to something, you can accomplish it. You know, there are going to be hiccups along the way. There's going to be downfalls all the time. You're going to fail more than you succeed, but you have to keep pushing. I think that's kind of the mindset we're missing.

[Phil]

One of the things that, that is important, I think, is that like you're saying about, like, keep trying and stuff, like, people quit too early. And like, one of the things that, like, one of the reasons why all that remains is, is a successful band is because I just never stopped, right. I didn't have the brain, you know, I wasn't smart enough to. To get a real job or whatever. So I just kept doing it, you know, and, and you learn what you're doing. And another thing I think that that does matter is having the humility to be like, okay, whatever I'm doing now isn't quite working out who's done what I want to do and can I pick their brain? Like, we did that. We definitely did that. We put out a record in 2002 and it wasn't the record that I wanted to put out. And I was like, well, how do I, how do I, you know, how do I get a record? How do we make a record that sounds like I wanted, you know, like I wanted to sound? I. Fortunately I knew Adam from Kill Switch and I was like, hey, produce our record. And then we went to, we went to him to do the next record and that's when we started to gain some traction because, you know, he's like, he's like, this is what you should do and you should do this and change that. And we didn't go in there saying, we know what, you know, we knew know what's up. We're like, help us make a good record. You know, you're the guy that went to Berkeley. You're the guy that, you know, put out the records that, that sound like we want our record to sound like. So, like, how do we do this? And, you know, we did whatever he said. And then when we went back to him for the next record, this record called the Fall of Ideals, like that record we put together ourselves with very little input. When we brought it to him, he was like, yeah, all this stuff sounds squared away. I wouldn't really change this or, or whatever. And after that it was like, okay, you're off to the races. We, we kind of figured out the, the. The secret sauce to make all that remains sound like all that remains. So it's, it's really a matter of, of not quitting, continue pushing. And it's hard because, you know, you gotta got bills to pay. And a lot of people end up with like, families. Well, fewer people end up with families nowadays, but, but you know, it's. It's hard to continue when you keep running into walls or you keep getting. Keep, you know, miss a lot of opportunities or whatever. But the people that end up successful are the people that don't quit.

[Olivia]

I think that's instant gratification culture. People don't want to put time and effort into it. They're like, if I don't get the likes on this video, that's not my bag. I guess I'll try something else. And it's like, it takes time and effort to do this stuff. It's, it's not. I didn't start a quote unquote career until 27, so. Or 26, I guess, technically.

[Phil]

The record that put us on the map, the Fall of ideals. I was 31 when that came on. That's an old guy. Already an old guy in the music industry. You know, like, we were on tour with some bands that had had kids that were, you know, 17, 18, 19 years old. They had to ask their parents if they could go on tour. That's. That's a true story.

[Olivia]

And you got to keep trying. You can't just rely on instant gratification because that will ruin you. That will ruin your ambition. You need to bring back that level of ambition. And I don't want to say pull yourself up, but like, work for what you're Getting.

[Ian]

Yeah, I did 24 years of unpaid work before I started getting paid for what I loved to do. 24 years since I was 14 to the age of 38, I started getting paid at. In the entertainment industry, like, securely at age 38. That's. And it was worth every minute. I mean, I worked so many shitty jobs as a waiter. 12 years of just hating my job, thinking about how miserable I was while I was standing there waiting for it to be over, like, dreaming about a day where I could do what I liked and actually make money doing it. And then it happens. Like, it happens. But the problem with the American dream, like you're saying, is, like, the militarization. And just like, I felt like we had. The dream was alive in the 90s. I was so excited to be an actor. Like, I'm gonna work harder and make more as a result. And then, like, everything. It felt like everything fell down in 2001 when the buildings came crashing, and then it was like the mask came off and they were like, now we're just gonna try and take over the world. The American dream is conquer the world. And I'm like, what is the point of this?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Like, good point.

[Ian]

So I've been really disenfranchised with the American way of Life for about 25 years because of that. Like, what is the American dream? Is it to conquer the Middle East? Is it to have the most nuclear weapons? Is it to beat the most people up? That said the bad word, like, what's. What's the point? Is it to sustain and have a nice calm little farm? Because then what? The enemy comes from without. So is the job to have the. Is the American dream to have the strongest borders? Like, what's the American Dream?

[Olivia]

Depends which aspect you're talking about. Well, I don't think there's any one. It's just.

[Phil]

Well, I. So, I mean, so I think that there was a general idea of what the American dream was, right? The idea that you can. That you can go to work, do. Do something that maybe something you don't love, but something that you can tolerate, and you can come home and you can have a home and a family that's yours.

[Olivia]

Right?

[Phil]

The. The. The idea of ownership is something that was a major component of the American dream for a long time. And that's part of the reason why I think people that rent and don't own anything kind of feel like they're alien. You know, they're alienated or they're. They don't have access to the American dream because they don't have that aspiration to own something. Right. The whole idea, like, oh, I'm the king of my castle, right? My house, maybe it's not the biggest one in the world, it's mine, but it's mine. And, and I get to make the decisions and my family is here. And this is what the important stuff is to me. Right? Like that kind of sense of ownership and that kind of. Of sense of I've made my life and I've made it out of, you know, out of working hard at whatever your job is, whether it be, you know, a, you know, white collar job or a blue collar job. The idea that you can go to work and then you have your little quote, unquote, your little slice of heaven, your home that's yours, that no one can take away from you, where you can actually make the decisions, that's kind of the American dream, where you can,

[Olivia]

what with a family, building a legacy, like having that be handed down, working so hard that you can hand that stuff down is so important. We see smaller and smaller families. To me, the American dream is like people that. If you're talking about people that come here for the American dream, if that's what you want to look at it as people that come here to buy a house, have a family, work hard, and leave their children what they worked for. Yeah, that's the American.

[Ian]

The term succeed, actually, like the term succession. Like if a king secedes, succeeds to his child. That's the general term of did you succeed in life? Well, we're about to find out. Because is stuff being passed down to your child, that's succession, that is success, is that you're able to pass something on to the next generation.

[Phil]

So to your point, the idea that the American dream was somehow tainted by foreign wars, I don't. That doesn't resonate with me because I think that the American dream was always about here in the United States and, and the individual's ability to do things in the United States, do things for themselves. The people that come here that are looking, quote, unquote, looking for the American dream, they're coming here hoping that they can start something. And, and this is a, a kind of a way that I phrase that a lot. People that have an agency attitude that they can go somewhere in the United States and make something happen for themselves, as opposed to people that have, you know, a lack of agency in their attitude who think that the world happens to them. And I think part of the reason why, a big part of the reason why the United States has been successful over the course of our 250 year history is because people were attracted to the idea of coming here and being able to make something happen for themselves and, and that kind of, that possibility, you know, drew people that were looking to come here and happen to America.

[Carter Banks]

Right.

[Phil]

Like when Arling Schwarzenegger came over to the United States, right. He, he was determined to happen to America. Like America wasn't going to happen to him, he was going to happen to America. And millions of people that have come to the United States throughout our history have come here with the same goals and the same aspirations. I'm going to happen to America. I'm going to go there and I'm going to do, do something and I'm going to make something happen. And that is a big part in my opinion of the American dream. It's the, the attitude that you're able to happen to the world as opposed to the world happens to you.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I think to his point, I think the United States, like imagine you're just looking at a map of the US right There's a bunch of clouds on top of it. The American dream is still underneath there, but you have to start peeling away. All right, why are we printing money? Why are we for over $40 trillion in debt? Take that out, take out the millions of illegals that are taking jobs, houses, get them out and you just have all these compounding things that are on top. And once you start solving some of these problems, it opens up the door again to the American dream because there are invaders in our country that are taking the American dream away from us.

[Ian]

I think land ownership is a big part of it. Back in the last couple hundred years there was a lot of open land to take for colonists and for settlers going west. That age has sort of passed us by. And within the United States there's not a lot of land to go get now it's kind of owned by corporations sometimes.

[Phil]

Go to Alaska, you can get some land.

[Ian]

What's Alaska?

[Phil]

You can go to Alaska.

[Ian]

There's a lot of land go to Gaza here too. There's land for sale or to be taken by Gaza is not in the United States. Yeah, that's more of an Israeli thing. But there is land to be colonized I hear on earth. But if a foreign corporation especially owns a piece of land in the United States, is the American dreamer thinking like yo, Manifest Destiny, this is American land. Why does a quasi BlackRock foreign corporation claim ownership over this?

[Phil]

Oh, we talked about BlackRock the other day.

[Ian]

I think BlackRock's not an American corp. I'm not sure it's a multinational corp. It's not necessarily adherent to American law and American restriction rules everywhere it goes. So any kind of foreign op, a Chinese businessman owning American farmland, that seems like that's another cloud that you would need to peel away to be like look, the American dream is owning my own property. And if the Chinese own all the land around me, what am I supposed to do? What is this dream? What's gonna happen in this dream if the foreigners keep trying to buy my land through legal right when the reality is I'm de facto on top of it. Cuz there's like du jour reality where it's like by law this is what the reality is. And then there's de facto reality which is like what's really happening which is these people are here living on this land. Maybe they're not on paper, the owners, but they're basically the owners because they're the ones, they're the protectors of the territory. So I don't know man. I mean back in the day was land seizure. We just take it from the natives.

[Phil]

So the. So out of 43 million acres of US agricultural land, that's foreign owned, right? That's about 3.1% of all US agricultural land. Total land area is 2.3 billion acres. So foreign owned land is roughly 1.9% of all land. I understand what you're saying, but it's actually not a problem.

[Ian]

Well, it's crazy that any of the land is owned by foreigners.

[Phil]

I mean fair, I mean. Well, I don't know, it depends. Should a foreign company be able to set up shop here in the us?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I mean me, I'm an American nationalist and almost an isolationist. So I'm going to say no.

[Phil]

You don't think a foreign company, so like Mitsubishi shouldn't be allowed to? Because, because that's what I'm talking about. Like, or Samsung.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Well, but it's American company though, right?

[Phil]

Well, I mean it's, it's Samsung's owned by in, in, in South Korea, right? They're a Korean company. Should they be able to open up that.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

They open up an American company, Correct? Yeah, yeah. So okay, I think that'd be all right.

[Phil]

So then, but, but that's, that means it's foreign owned land though. It's an American company. As an. It's hiring American workers. But it's a friend. It's a foreign company.

[Ian]

Yeah, they should rent the land. They should off of an American owner.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Sign A lease. Here you go.

[Phil]

Okay.

[Ian]

It's. Yeah, the lands bill.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Before I forget, I want to say Adam. My favorite video of him is on the Price is Right. That's all I want to say.

[Phil]

All the way too, right. He goes for context. He's referencing Adam D. The time that Adam D from Kill Switch Engage was on the prices, right? And he went and he won the whole caboodle, the whole thing. He got all the way to the end and won. And it was hilarious because he's. If you know anything about Adam D, he's a character.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Steve. Yeah, my name.

[Phil]

He's. And dude in real life, he's just like that, like there. It's not like he's putting on an act. He's ridiculous all the time.

[Ian]

Is he brilliant? Is that the guy?

[Phil]

He's absolutely brilliant.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Ian]

He's your producer.

[Phil]

He's not like he produced four records for us. He produced this dark and heart the fall of ideals for we are many and he produced a war you cannot win.

[Ian]

Was he doing that thing on Price is Right where he'd be like, bet $1 more than the opponen it and then get it.

[Phil]

I don't. It's been a while, you know, I'm not really. I don't remember his bets. I remember his antics, his yelling and stuff.

[Carter Banks]

He's.

[Phil]

He's hilarious. You can google, you can, you can search it on YouTube.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Adam D, he gave a shout out to his dog Steve.

[Phil]

His dog Steve. So shout out backbone of my good dog. Good dog. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the, the idea of, you know, I'm not super opposed to foreign entities owning U S land. I mean, I understand what people are saying. I don't, I don't hate the idea of, of being like, all right, for a foreign company you have to lease it from a U S. Landowner or whatever. But Ian, to Ian's point, right, like, if there's a, A U S. Landowner that's. That owns the land, it's going to be some big conglomerate. If they're leasing it to a company, it's not going to be like, you know, Joe down the street owns this land and he's going to lease it to, you know, the Samsung corporation. You know, it'd be cool if we

[Ian]

could do stuff like that.

[Phil]

Like, well, I mean, if you own, look, if you own property, you absolutely can. There's nothing preventing an American citizen from leasing land to a, to a company that wants to build a, you know, build some kind of factory or something like that.

[Ian]

This is where I start to align with the communist cry for like seizure of property is because if corporate corporatocracy, I feel like, is the other end of the spectrum of communism is where the corporations own everything as opposed to everyone owns everything. So the communists will be like, down with corporate ownership. We must take it back. And I'm like, okay, I understand the corporate ownership's a big problem, but I don't think like just going and seizing property with no future plan is the right way to necessarily go about it. But I can see where the animus

[Phil]

is brewing because always a five year plan.

[Carter Banks]

There's always a five year plan.

[Ian]

Yeah, we got to start, start with five years.

[Phil]

No, no, that was actually a comment about communists consistently having five year plans. I, I think that, that property ownership is important and I don't think that it's good for, for like, I'm generally like, generally against eminent domain. Like, unless it's a real, absolutely real serious need. There should, like the government shouldn't be like, it should take a lot of, of steps and a lot of work for the government to, you know, take your, your property over imminent domain. I think that, that generally it's a, it's a bad use of, of land.

[Ian]

Do you think that the government using eminent domain to seize land around the Capitol to build data centers is righteous?

[Phil]

I don't think the government's doing that.

[Ian]

I know. I don't think they are. I think they're buying it. But if it were to come to it where they're like, we need more power.

[Phil]

No, I, and, and the government wouldn't be so like, usually eminent domain and there's the abuses that are my biggest problem. But usually eminent domain is used for like, we're building a highway, so we need to take this because the highway is going through here and we can't have it go, you know, whatever. We can't change the shape of the highway or whatever. As for data centers, I don't think that the government is actually in the business of, of using eminent domain to acquire land for data centers. Most of the time it's, it's private companies that are doing that.

[Ian]

So I'm asking right now, yeah, for now lines. Do they do it for power lines too?

[Phil]

Probably for power lines. I think they do that kind of stuff. But a lot of times, yeah, they'll do it for airport. I mean there are, there are times where that they use eminent domain for, for, you know, infrastructure projects and stuff.

[Carter Banks]

But honestly, I don't think Disneyland or something. And I mean, this is a Dolly Part. They were trying My friend's farm.

[Olivia]

Hollywood.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah.

[Phil]

I think in the long run, I, to be honest with you, I think in the long run, data centers like Musk is probably gonna put data centers in space. And I think there's gonna be a lot of companies that are gonna follow suit because once he figures out how to do it and, and he's very much the. The only no. Is physics. Right. So if physics says you can't do it, then you can't do it. Otherwise, you know, you can do it. And he's put a lot of effort into getting things into space. There was times where people were like, you're never going to get rockets into space. You're never going to get reusable rockets. You're never going to be able to put, put, you know, the Internet into the sky. And, and that is all, you know, proven totally wrong. So I think that in the long run, data centers are going to end up in space and, you know, low earth orbit.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And in your houses and in your phones, I think, will decentralize the data, too. Like, mesh it up.

[Phil]

Mesh it. Like a mesh networking of data.

[Ian]

Yeah. Data crunching.

[Phil]

And isn't that more a communication thing than actual, like, data sharing?

[Ian]

Mesh networks.

[Phil]

Yeah, mesh networks are like just a. They're like a. They're kind of like a private Internet,

[Ian]

you know, your network intranet, you could call it intra.

[Phil]

Where.

[Ian]

But it's like device to device, as opposed to going to a central server and then back to your device. I'd go right to your device instead. So if you could transmit, like if my phone could do calculations for your tank, like partially because it's local or something, because it's nearby. And I could run like 2% of your. Your data needs that could help alleviate. Oh, yeah, except the math.

[Phil]

We're gonna, we're gonna jump to this story here. Todd Blanche's nomination for Attorney general clears critical hurdle after a deal with GOP holdouts From the ap. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche has cleared a critical hurdle Tuesday in his bid to be confirmed to the post after swaying Republican holdouts on a Senate committee to advance his nomination for a floor vote. The Senate Judiciary Committee voted 12 to 10 along party lines in support of the nomination of President Donald Trump's former personal attorney, who has aggressively pushed the Republican administration's priorities since taking over for Pam Bondi in April. The vote followed a deal struck late Sunday between Blanche and two Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas and Thom Tillis of North Carolina, who had been threatening to block his confirmation over the settlement of Trump's lawsuit against the Internal Revenue Service regarding the president's leaked tax returns. Corn and tills back to Blanche's nomination after the Justice Department confirmed in writing that it wasn't moving forward with the 1.8 billion fund to compensate Trump allies who believe they were prosecuted for political purposes, which the administration announced as part of the settlement. So how. I'm not sure how many people Donald Trump has appointed that have been been confirmed by the Senate, but I know that it's, it's historically low. So this is, this is looking like it could be another actual win for the, for the, for the administration. Todd Blanche has been pretty good so far. I know that there are a lot of people that had a lot of problems with Pam Bondi for different reasons. The Epstein stuff being one of the major, major reasons. Just because it was all handled so like, it was a complete clown show. The whole, you know, the walking out of the White House with binders, and I understand that people are going to say, oh, well, you know, that was actually, they weren't supposed to have a photo op and, and what have you. But even still, like, it should have never happened. Like, it was, it was a total, you know, total farce.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

It angered a lot of people, rightly

[Phil]

correctly, you know, you know, there's a lot of people that, you know, Cernovich was smart about it. He wasn't standing there holding up the binder, unlike some other people that are, I guess, friends of the show. But, but, you know, look, the, the, the whole Pam Bondi, you know, she, she was good on some things, but she wasn't particularly good about optics. And optics really, really matter in dc.

[Olivia]

Oh, yeah, it's the most important thing. Like we were talking earlier about messaging matters. Optics matter in dc. They will make or break you do in dc. So I know a lot of people wanted Bondi out. I was one of them. She absolutely was creating a PR nightmare for the presidency and, and for Trump specifically. It wasn't surprising when she left. I'm hoping Blanche is going to do good work. I'm happy they're working out a deal, but again, I try not to get my hopes up too high with any politician or any government anything. So hoping this all goes well, but at the same time, gotta have your reservations, too.

[Phil]

Yeah. So the Senate has confirmed a couple, it says, hundreds of President Donald Trump's nominees for a second term, including a fresh package of 74 to 107 civilian and lower level administration posts approved in early August. To clear a backlog. Thousands of total political positions exist with hundreds tracked actively. Let's see, do they have any kind of numbers here? Because I know that the, the administration politically appointed tracker. Hold on a second. Let's see. Positions have no Trump nominee. Nominees are being considered by the Senate. 100. There's been 360 that have been confirmed. So let's see. 824 positions that, that are in total here.

[Olivia]

I mean, that's probably like lower level. Like every position they have to accept, they have to. Okay. Like so many appointments and there's a lot of appointments to fill, so I'm sure that's over time. There's like an assistant to the assistant to the other under.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Under Secretary.

[Olivia]

Yeah, exactly. There's like a million of them, which. That in and of itself is a big problem. How many positions are one appointed and two held? Like, that's. How many people do you need in the government?

[Phil]

That's big bureaucracy.

[Olivia]

It's huge. But that is so many people. We need to trim that fat immediately.

[Phil]

Well, I mean, ostensibly that's what Dodge Doge was for.

[Olivia]

Right.

[Phil]

That was, you know, really hamstringed by, not just by, by Congress, but, you know, actively by protesters and, and by the media. Yeah. I think that the most significant thing that Doge got to do was cut usaid. And even now you're hearing how people are swearing up and down that Elon Musk is a murderer. I even saw, I even saw some, some infographics that talk about like the, the most, the most murders in history. And they put Musk's name in there because they project that all these people are going to die. So they've got like, Mao, Stalin, Elon Musk, Hitler, as, as if Musk was, was, you know, responsible for these, these deaths because of, of Doge. But, you know, there's constantly people that talk about, well, you know, the government should get rid of waste, fraud and abuse. And then you go ahead and you get rid of the waste, fraud and abuse and people always a catastrophe the way that they, they, you know, the narrative that they spin. It's always some kind of catastrophic thing if you get rid of this post or that post. But you, the USAID stuff, we have Mike Benzon a lot and he says that, you know, there's not really a whole lot of light between USAID and CIA. Right. Like, USAID is basically a front for CIA.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Well, you see how the DNC is basically broke since USAID got cut. But yeah, I think that was one of the best things to do is to cut usaid, but I think a lot of people are getting disenfranchised because we have all this fraud that's happening. And then you have Rand Paul once a year that does the Festivus Report, and you're saying this is ridiculous, but no one ever seems to get held accountable for wasting all of our money. And kind of circling back to the American dream. I think that's another clout that's on top of the United States right now. I mean, okay, we're arresting Somalians in Minnesota and all that, but. But, you know, this money trickles back to politicians and no one is being held accountable for this. That's why people are getting upset.

[Phil]

Yeah. I wonder how much, like, what percentage of the. The total US Budget is fraud. Right. Like out of all of the money. Because Musk was making the argument that he thought it was like a trillion dollars, which when I first heard it, I was like, come on, man, like, the U.S. spends like 2 trillion. You think half of the money that's getting spent is a trillion dollars? And then you hear about the, the billions of dollars in, in, you know, one state alone, and you're like, oh, well, maybe, maybe that's true. Maybe it actually is, you know, approaching a trillion dollars.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Medicaid, Medicare fraud. Yeah, it's going around. Yep.

[Phil]

Yeah. I mean, Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security are the biggest drivers. And you gotta imagine, look, when you offer people some kind of social service for legitimate problems that they're, that they're having, you know, that there are a lot of people that are like, oh, well, I have a problem too. How many people that you see rolling around on scooters at Walmart are on Social Security because they can't work, because they can't get up and walk, you know, and they're, you know, they're what, you know, 40, right. They're like, oh, you know, my knees are destroyed. Well, you were walking around with an extra 200 pounds on your body and now you can't work a regular job, so you get on Social Security. It's like, maybe you shouldn't be on Social Security. Maybe we shouldn't have these programs, you know, or maybe we should. We should have more stringent, stringent rules about who can and cannot get on the program. Because, look, the, the amount of money that is is waste, fraud and abuse probably does approach what, what Musk was talking about.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

And I'm going on the books.

[Ian]

It's like 3 to 5% of our 7 trillion a year budget improper Payments, they call it. And then fraud's harder to track. But 3 to 5% of 7 trillion, which would be 350 billion a year, roughly. But that's just what's on the books.

[Phil]

Yeah. And I mean, what. How much did they say was. Was fraud in. In Minneapolis?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Oh, tens, if not hundreds of billions of. Oh, wait, are you talking about the leering centers?

[Phil]

Well, overall, the whole stay. They were. They were.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Oh, I don't have that number. I can't remember offhand.

[Ian]

Leering.

[Olivia]

I love that. Everyone just says it like, it's like, like, you mean the learning centers? Like no one ever says the learning centers anymore. I passed one in.

[Phil]

Oh, is that a word?

[Olivia]

I thought it was. Yeah, it's crazy. I passed one in Martinsburg and like, just laughed at myself. I was like, well, at least we know it's not Somali run because it was spelled learning center. So I was like, well, don't got to report that one.

[Ian]

This is, it's a big part of my dissolution with the American dream. I don't want to talk about my dissolution too much, but it's the fraud. Like, it's. It feels insurmountable. Literally insurmountable. Like the only way to solve it is to break the whole system, which means like, sudden death for so many people. That's not where I'm aiming, but I just don't see a lot of other outcomes over there.

[Olivia]

It would only mean sudden death if someone's using the system correctly. That's the thing.

[Ian]

And, and it indicates that if I don't do fraud, I'm going to get left behind and become one of those casualties. Like I have to. If you can't beat them, join them. That's like the mentality that I'm being bred and I don't want to slow

[Steve Loves Ammo]

rip of the band aid. Like I got hairy arms.

[Ian]

That's what it feels like. They're like, don't let anyone know that you're peeling the bandage off. It'll be too obvious. Real slow. And they're like, why does it hurt so bad? They're like, because I'm not. I'm not telling you what I'm doing to you. Like, bro. My infection. My infection.

[Olivia]

My infection.

[Ian]

My infection.

[Phil]

Song lyrics man, this my own prison.

[Ian]

It's like a creed thing.

[Phil]

So federal prosecutor. Prosecutors estimate that roughly 9 billion in taxpayer money has been compromised or stolen through widespread industrial scale fraud schemes across 14 states administered social services programs.

[Ian]

900 billion.

[Phil]

9 billion.

[Ian]

9 billion.

[Phil]

Yeah. So, I mean, but that's, you know, that's not a little money. You know, I mean, in the broad scheme of things, when you're talking about, you know, two trillion dollar budget, it, you know, it's, it's not a lot of money, but it's not just one layer of it.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah, it continues to go down.

[Ian]

If you were somebody that had foreign ties, because I'll ask friends and I don't, I don't want to pick on Israel. I'm not doing that. But I'll have like American Jews or Jewish Americans and they'll be like, are you a Jewish American or are you American Jew? And some people be like, no, my loyalty lies with Israel and I'm Jewish first. And they wave Jew Israeli flags. I'm like, like, but they're American citizens. I'm like, okay, if there are people like that in power and they really are like, I'm this thing first, then I'm an American citizen. And they could just print up money by tweaking some numbers in a computer and like, send money elsewhere. And like the American people over and like, they don't really care about America.

[Phil]

There shouldn't be people that are hyphenated Americans in, in Congress.

[Carter Banks]

Right.

[Olivia]

Like part of like business sworn in. You should have to denounce other.

[Phil]

Yeah, you should, you shouldn't be allowed to be a dual citizen and be in Congress. You shouldn't, you shouldn't be saying things like Ilhan Omar, where you know, we're Somalis first, or I'm here to take care of the Somalis.

[Olivia]

Absolutely.

[Phil]

You know, if we're, and, and that goes the same for, for Israelis. Israel has plenty of money. They're a, a competent nation able to take care of themselves. They don't need, you know, the United States holding their hand for context. The, the, the US baseline for money to Israel is 3.8 billion a year, which, that's a lot of money. And I'm the kind of dude that thinks that we should just get rid of foreign aid. But I will say when it comes to foreign aid, it does contribute to help prop up the dollar. If you're giving money to other countries, they want those dollars to remain valuable so they will see a value in them. And so considering how much money we print, it's, it's part of a, I guess a plan to continue to have a demand for dollars.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Do you believe that oil drives the market worldwide Currently?

[Phil]

Probably, yeah.

[Ian]

Okay.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Do you know how much oil we have in the Permian Basin? And do you know where the Permian base. We have a Lot of like about 150 years worth.

[Phil]

Yeah, we have a lot of.

[Ian]

Where's that at?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

It's West Texas up to New Mexico, Arizona, ish kind of region. But it's fracturing is what they do. And there's a ton. I'm absolutely absolute.

[Phil]

We have a lot of oil, we have plenty of oil here in the United States. There's like. I'm actually kind of partial to the argument that oil is too valuable to burn. Right. Like, I like the idea of, of going towards electric vehicles and stuff like that because you know, just burning it seems like you're using one of the most functional. I mean it's, it's civilization juice. Right. Like it's not just for your cars. Right. Everything that we basically come in contact every day is petroleum based. All the fertilizers that we use, all of the rub, the rubber and materials that we use, there's so many medicines that are produced that use petroleum based products. The stuff is. When they say it's liquid gold, it's not just about putting gas in your car. While that's a big use of it, it. I think we can, I think it's better for the US to you know, try to move to other forms of energy for at the very least for vehicles. Just because it's so valuable. Burning it seems to me to be a waste.

[Ian]

You know, it is, but plastic, making plastic, that's like the main thing for it is plastics. But, but yeah, I asked Jim Tour, like, can we burn graphene for fuel? Because you can, it's carbon. And he was like, yeah, but you would never want to. It's too valuable. And I think the same thing about oil, like if you can heat it up with radiative heat, you can't directly current, run current through it and turn it into graphene because it's liquid. But if you surround it with like a hot tube, it will, you can convert it into graphene, literally oil.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Break the carbon chains apart and then they reform into structural graphene which you can use to strengthen roads and build, strengthen concrete and things like that. That's just one value of this stuff. Sorry to interrupt.

[Phil]

I felt like almost like. But yeah, so like I, I do think that, that you know, the US has sufficient oil here. Like there's, there's, there's not a lot of reason for the US to be, you know, importing oil. You know, we can definitely provide. Look, the US is, is a continent sized country. Everything we need, whether you're talking about oil or whether you're Talking about rare earth minerals that we get all from China. The, you know, that's all here in the US there's basically everything the United States needs to run the United States can be produced here. We even have the, the most pure silicone on Earth. There's this, this town in North Carolina that has the, the silicone mine that is, is the only place that has 99.999 pure silicon. And that's what you have to use to make chips. But not only that, you have to make the crucibles out of silicone as well because you can't have any contaminant in it.

[Ian]

Oh, silicon. Silicone is different.

[Carter Banks]

Silicon.

[Phil]

Silicon. Okay, fine.

[Ian]

Silicone, silica, quartz. Yeah, yeah.

[Phil]

So, but it's, it's this town, little, little town in North Carolina and that's all they do is just mine this pure, pure silicon. Silicon. Yeah, silicon Silicon.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Silicone. Silicone valley. Right.

[Ian]

That's like that soft fake boob material.

[Phil]

I apologize for mispronouncing silicone valley Silicon. Yeah. But yeah, like we can produce everything that we need here in the US we don't need to actually, you know, export things. It is cheaper because we've had, you know, there's so many countries that had emerging markets and, and they were basically going from an agrarian society to a modern society. That's part of the reason why everything got shipped to China is because they were trying to bring the Chinese economy into the 20th century. But yeah, I do, I'm aware of the, the amount of oil that we have here. And I do think that, you know, oil is the, the petrodollar is still the main driver. So go ahead with your thought then.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

No, I'm just thinking if like the United States becomes more independent as a nation, it can help us like tremendously. I, I've also thought about student loans. We were talking about that earlier. Take college out of the equation, boost up our trade schools. Now, hopefully it doesn't drive up the cost, you know, of trade schools themselves. But we're kicking out skilled laborers. Right. We need to replenish that. And if we get our kids to. I, I know some H Vac sales guys that just sale, sell AC units making a half a million a year.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

And they're like 25 years old, young kids.

[Phil]

What do you think? So actually kind of down this, this. I'm going to tug on this thread a little bit. What do you think about the United States having the navy we have in order to keep international trade regular? Do you think the US Should Be regulating the sea lanes and protecting international trade?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah, I do believe so. But I think we. We've been so, like, I don't want to say infiltrated, but, like, we're talking about, are you Jewish American or African American or, you know, we need to get in the mindset you're American. Right. We have so many different countries that are invading us physically and mentally, too. As far as elections or just even propaganda pieces that you're hearing all the time on social media. It's like everyone's combating, you know, I'm Muslim or I'm a Jewish, and instead of just focusing on being an American, it's. We're putting these other ideals in front of what it actually means to be an American. And I think that's what's kind of getting lost. Does that make sense to you?

[Phil]

I. I do, and I agree that the. The idea of hyphenated American. Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt said, you know, the idea of hyphenated American is an app. Is abhorrent to being a regular to being an American.

[Carter Banks]

Right?

[Phil]

Like, so whatever, wherever you came from, right. Wherever you came from to the United States, you should leave that place behind. Leave the old world. In the old world, when you come to the United States, you're you. If you become a citizen, you're an American, and that's it. So I, I do agree, like, in principle, I don't think that you. You don't hear it so much from people that are on the right, though. I mean, sure, there. I think when you're talking about, like, like black Americans, African Americans, people on the right will. That are black Americans, they'll still kind of call themselves African Americans. But you don't hear people that are on the right that are from other countries generally kind of sliding into that mindset.

[Ian]

It's only Jew. American Jews when they're.

[Phil]

No, it's definitely not only America.

[Ian]

You have people on their Instagram.

[Phil]

It's. But it's not only Jews.

[Ian]

But that's like the one I could say on the right that I can think of off the top of my head.

[Phil]

Oh, you're talking about people on the right. Okay. No, because you hear, like I said, African Americans, black Americans that have, you know, their family that. That was here, you know, that are descendants of slaves. They'll still call themselves African Americans, but

[Ian]

not Israeli American, American Jew. Like, not Jewish Americans. Those are Americans American Jews, where they're like, yeah, I'm born here, but I am Jewish first. Those people. I don't see that with Africa ever. But I don't give a Congo. I'm Congo.

[Phil]

No, but they, no, but they, they cons. They call themselves African Americans. They have that, that same mindset of, of the hyphenated American thing.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I've heard a Nigerian American before. In Houston, the area where I'm from, there are a lot of Nigerians that actually come in, become nurses, they become American citizens. And they're proud of their Nigerian culture, but they're also equally proud to be American American. Like they, they, they dislike black culture here in the United States. They tell me that because of where they come from. They like the. America is the greatest country on the planet. And that's what I try to emphasize to everyone. Because I've been to 30 probably countries. I've been to some real. And I'm like, you, like, you go to these places and you come to the. Back to the United States after a few years and the doors of Walmart open up, you're like, oh, it's angelic euphoria. It's like, oh, miss this so much.

[Phil]

Yeah.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

You know, so if we can get people in that mindset, then you can do a lot of change in this country.

[Ian]

That was the thing about corporatization is that I love. When I came back to America, I'm like, thank God there's ac. I know there's always going to be a gas station because that's just the way corporations work. I'm going to know I can get coffee because I know there's going to be a Starbucks somewhere around here. That's the way corporation works. So I'm like thanking God for the corporatization of my reality. Look, you go to conformity.

[Phil]

You go to Europe and like, you know, nine, like, there are definitely countries where like, you know, eight o', clock, everything's closed. Nine o', clock, everything's closed. And that's in Europe.

[Ian]

That was, you know, that was just saying that. What Posobic was saying that about somewhere he just was at.

[Phil]

Yeah, he was. And he was somewhere in Europe and that he doesn't want to say. But that's something that, you know, we would deal with. You know, when we're on tour, you go to Europe and it's like, show gets over and it's, you know, 11 o', clock, everything's closed. You know, you don't notice it. You don't see that like in London. Right. You probably don't see that in Manchester. But you know, even in, like, there's, there's a lot of. There's parts of Paris where we would, you know, the show would get done. Nothing's open. You know, definitely if you're in, in places in Germany and, and then you get into smaller countries in, in Europe and stuff like that kind of stuff happens in, in, you know, the Netherlands, there's, there's parts of it where, you know, in Amsterdam a lot of things shut down and, and there's no option. In the United States, you kind of know that after the show you can find somewhere to get something to eat, you know. You know, after you get out of the, you know, it's 11 o', clock, everyone's gone home, and, and you can find a place to grab something to eat and, and running water.

[Ian]

You know that the water that comes out of the tap is probably going to be safe to drink.

[Phil]

Like that's in the U. S. Yeah, but I mean most of Europe it's, it's fairly safe. But, but you know, I mean, I've been to South America and been to Mexico and that is not the, in

[Ian]

the U.S. open a package of food and eat it without inspecting the food because, you know there's not going to be mold on it. And that's just, that's like we, I think people take that for granted. Very rarely will you find something wrong with packaged food because of the way the corporations and like bureaucracy works is like, I don't have to inspect my apple every time.

[Phil]

That's because of the possibility of litigation. Right. One of the things that people, people give the FDA a lot of credit for stuff. And it's not the FDA that's, that's actually keeping food safe. It's the threat of litigation if someone, if someone gets sick from eating something.

[Ian]

So I do, I feel like I'm talking out of two sides of my mouth when I talk about this because I love the organization of the bureaucracy of the, the manufacturer. Like, I know that 2:00am Waffle House, if I want to drive your American dream, it kind of has become go

[Steve Loves Ammo]

to Waffle House at 2.

[Ian]

Ladies, you know, I can do anything I want. I'm an American. But like I, I appreciate the old world. Like, they get up at 4am they milk the goats, they're asleep by 3pm There are no bar, there's maybe a tavern. But like, that sucks if you really live there. From my perspective, it sucks to eat chicken and white rice every day because that's all they have access to. Like, I prefer the corporations flying in 88,000 different types of food for me to select and improve my Genome. But like, at what cost, man? Like, where's the dream? Like I'm not dreaming for a machine to control and observe and like witness my reality at every turn and make sure I'm not deviating. But that seems like what this, this thing is doing is it's trying to organize and then make everything kind of homogenous.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I mean, if EMP went off in the atmosphere over Kansas, all electronics would be knocked out. Then we can go back to your previous American dream. Just chicken and rice.

[Ian]

It's pretty brutal.

[Phil]

That's what I don't know about that. I don't know if that, I don't know if that happened going back. There'd be, there'd be, I think it'd be chaos. Yeah, there'd be a lot of.

[Olivia]

It would be at the end of the world.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yeah. The walking dead.

[Phil]

Yeah, it would be. Yeah. I mean it's so reliable. Cities empty out and you know, people are, you know, dying as they leave cities.

[Ian]

Water pumps are electric. A lot of water pumps.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Water goes out.

[Ian]

Like if you get a hand pump,

[Phil]

you're good to go.

[Ian]

That old school.

[Phil]

It depends how much you mean by good to go. But yeah, but yeah, like, I mean the hand pump does pump water.

[Ian]

I truly feel like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm drawn in two different directions. One's towards the corporate Borg and then the other one is towards like independent nationalism or like protectionism. And neither way is perfect and neither way is horrific.

[Phil]

But like the Borg's pretty bad.

[Ian]

Like a Borg that was like you said the bad word. Therefore you lose your money and you're in digital prison. Like I don't want that. I don't want the Borg being like, you're thinking bad thoughts. Kill him. Like I don't want that. But that seems like the ultimate goal of the Unistate is like total obedience or at least close enough to it that you don't deviate unless they allow you, they choose you to be one of the deviators.

[Phil]

The only places that have been like that in modern history have all been like state controlled communist countries.

[Ian]

Yeah. And then you can sort of see microcosms within corporations acting like that where there's like a leadership top down authority where things move fast and you're punished readily for violating their terms. Like if that got extrapolated into a government could be a problem.

[Phil]

Yeah, that, I mean that's kind of what, that's kind of what you got in, in top down, you know, authoritarian kind of communist countries. Right. Like if you said the wrong thing, I mean, even. And it's not even just communists, like, if you, if you criticize Putin too strongly, you know, and you have a big enough voice, they're gonna, they're gonna make sure that you stop.

[Ian]

So the other side of the coin is, get off my lawn. I don't care what the laws are. I don't care what the laws are. I. You understand that? I don't care. My neighbors don't care. Like, get off my lawn. Like that. The reality of like my personal national property, like, get out is cool too. But the problem is airplanes can come bomb your land. Like, what's this hide and defend your little spot?

[Phil]

What do you mean? What's the scenario that you're thinking of where airplanes are going to come bomb your land?

[Ian]

Like, if a total nationalist society, we're like, get your flock cameras out here. Get your digital currency crap, we don't even need electricity because we're so self sustainable. Well, I'll tell you, the German airplanes are still on the Borg. They're still watching you from spy satellites. You can't like, run away from it. And it will over. It will consume you. So like, it's like, join them or get destroyed.

[Phil]

I don't, I'm still not following this. I'm still not following the context as to, as to what would get, you know, German planes to drop a bomb on you and your property.

[Ian]

I know I'm picking a random nation

[Steve Loves Ammo]

inside of the United States, right?

[Ian]

Like a sovereign Borg like entity that was observing the people that chose not to be part of that grid, that wanted to maintain their national sovereignty. Then the entity that's being like, all right there, it's time to go seize their territory.

[Phil]

Are you imagining Amish?

[Ian]

Yeah, the Amish or the Mennonites, like, how do you organize?

[Phil]

Are you imagining like the United States government doing that? Are you imagining a foreign country?

[Ian]

I'm just picturing the airplane itself. I don't who controls the power at the moment, but I feel like it does.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

This has been done already on a family guy, but Peter Topia, where he. Yeah, his whole, like, property. He created a sovereign nation. And I think like the military was surround.

[Phil]

Surrounded him.

[Ian]

Ayn Rand, I mean, that's the Ayn Rand. What's that book by Ayn Rand where they all. Atlas Shrugged Shrugged, they go and they form their own community in the mountains. But like now we have. Have spy satellites, so there's no hiding from the Borg like the entity, the machine tracking algorithmic function that I feel like creating as we speak.

[Phil]

I feel like you're the, the machine Borg that you're talking about is a bit too abstract to really kind of, kind of articulate the idea that you're, you're trying to get across because it such a. If you're just like, well, you know, know the, the abstract Big Brother kind of thing. Are you talking about like a global thing? Are you talking about the, the United States having that kind of power or. Because you mentioned a lot of times you'll talk about corporations and then you'll talk about the government and they mix together and stuff. And I'm, I'm having a hard time following what you do, what you're. Well, I'm having a hard time following your thought process.

[Ian]

International. So like corporations that exist in multiple countries that have autonomous artificial intelligence that then take over the airplanes. Like Boeing installs an AI and their airplane fighter jets now. So. And then it goes rogue and no one has control of these systems of.

[Phil]

So you're talking about like an AI kind of.

[Ian]

Or humans that become part of this AI that opt in. And then now they're sort of in quasi control or influence over the system while it's influencing them to not say the wrong words that I'm very concerned about.

[Phil]

So like a future of like neural linked people that are connected to the, to the, to a network and, and decide that they're going to come after you.

[Ian]

Right.

[Phil]

And those German planes and, and drop a bomb on you.

[Ian]

Exactly. And the bombs themselves will be intelligent, but. And they'll be like, well, we have to do it or the AI itself will take over. Don't you see this is for your own good? And you'll be like, I guess they're right because the AI is much worse alone. It's better that there are humans interfering, but then the human goes psycho and then they're like, is it better that we have our little farm plots and rifles, but it's like, probably have bomber jets and lasers and stuff.

[Phil]

Well, I mean, so in the US I still feel like people have a lot of autonomy. You know, I think that people have a lot of autonomy. I think that the government is, is still like, is still limited in certain ways. Right? Like, I mean, obviously the, there have been, you know, a lot of infringements on people's rights, but the government still, there's still ways to push back against the government. You know, the courts still have a decent amount of power and can, can you can find relief, you know, when you, when you go to court sometimes. I mean, the biggest thing that bothers me is stuff like the, the Commerce clause and the, the necessary and proper clauses where they can use that kind of. For any, for justification for most, you know, most bad behavior the government does when it comes to telling people what to do. They can kind of find a justification in the, in the commerce clause. And, and that's a problem. But I don't, I don't see how. I don't see a big, A big mixing of AI with the government. Like the, the government uses AI definitely, but I don't see how. I don't imagine the government turning power over to AI.

[Ian]

God, I don't know. With their, their.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I think.

[Ian]

Didn't they just say they're, they're allowing autonomous. Their military to become AI driven?

[Phil]

Well, that, that, that's hard. That's. I think that it's more like targeting in, in specific context. So like in a specific battlefield, they'll, they'll allow the AI to kind of pick targets and decide which ones are the most important and so on down the line.

[Ian]

I don't think there's really a better one or the other is necessarily better. Like being part of a collective where it is ordered and not particularly evil, but like just crushing, dominating and organized wouldn't necessarily be horrible. I mean, we could all get along in a system like that. Although free speech is pretty important, and I don't know if that could exist in a system like that. The other aspect is like more chaotic, where everyone owns their own territory. They necessarily speak the same language.

[Phil]

The real question when it comes to, you know, people that are plugged into like a neuralink kind of thing that, that connects all their brains is, you know, is not whether or not you have free speech. It's the question of what you're saying. Is it really your creation or is it the. The thoughts of a robot or someone else?

[Ian]

And are the things you're saying being heard by the other person as you're saying them, or is it being warped in between and you don't know?

[Phil]

Yeah, the perception could be, you know, are you really hearing the thing that you think you're hearing? Because are you actually hearing what the other person is saying?

[Ian]

It could get. Systems could get to a point where they code in the background so fast that I say, hello, Steve.

[Carter Banks]

And.

[Ian]

But as the data translates through the Internet, you hear you, Steve, and you're like, bro. And we get into it and they just, just. And that's why you need your software code access. So you see if the system is tweaking your data in transit.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

This is going to be like, actually a really good point seven where, like, people hack into Neuralink and they have the elites sipping on their martinis or whatever they drink and just watching people fight over each other. Yeah, via Neuralink.

[Phil]

No, and actually, that, that I, I do think is legitimate because if you're dealing with, you know, like we talk about, read, write, technology, right? Like, it's not only, you know, are you sure what you're hearing is actually what the other person is saying, but, you know, it becomes a question of is the other person even there? Right? Because if they can. If they can. You know, Musk is talking about Neuralink will be able to restore vision. And, and in 18 months, he's saying you'll be able to see in different spectrums, right? Not just in visible light, but you'll be able to see an infrared, and you'll be able to see, like through narrow. Through Neuralink. Like. So if that's the case, right, if, if, if the, your vision can be augmented like that and they have the capability of, of communicating with your brain on that level, well, what's to say? Who's to say that the person sitting in front of you is even there, right? Like, you sit down, you think that you're, you, you're talking to someone, but it's actually just Neuralink telling you, you know, I, I think that that's pro. That's probably more likely than the whole get into the pod thing, right? Like, just. Can you rely on your senses anymore?

[Ian]

Oh, my God. The pod is in your brain. Because like a horse, if you tie it to a post enough times, you can just untie it and it will think, it will just stand there next to the post as if it's. You don't have to train, you don't

[Phil]

have to tie it tight. You just throw the, the, the reins over the post and it'll just be like, all right, well, I can't.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Pavlov's dog.

[Ian]

Yeah. As a little aside, I had seen infrared light. The human brain is capable of perceiving it. I think we just kind of mute our brains so that we don't constantly see it, so that we can exist in this reality. But I was waking up out of a dream one time, and my phone was like, right in front of me. And as I opened my eyes, I saw the infrared going. It looked like it was going into my phone. And then I felt my brain kind of twist closed as it, like the light, like, sucked into the phone, disappeared.

[Olivia]

Really.

[Ian]

It was Just the perception was closing off.

[Phil]

All right, we've got a. We're gonna jump to some. Some of our questions from the Discord. It's Friday.

[Carter Banks]

Pull those up and see if we've got any.

[Phil]

We'll see if we got some. It is Friday, so there is no after show. And we're gonna jump to the Discord questions here, see what we got. Who's here?

[Carter Banks]

Chat real quick.

[Phil]

Pull up the chat real quick.

[Olivia]

Starts at. If you go to Meatload.

[Phil]

I don't know.

[Carter Banks]

I got this. No worries.

[Ian]

Welcome to the Dick sward.

[Olivia]

What?

[Ian]

Discord.

[Phil]

Not the after show yet, Ian. No swearing.

[Ian]

After showing Friday, everyone. Where is that Carter bringing it up?

[Carter Banks]

I'm trying to.

[Phil]

He's trying to.

[Carter Banks]

Olivia, could you peek over here and show me where this chat is?

[Ian]

Yeah. In the meantime, I'll give you a little bit of.

[Carter Banks]

There's the mouse.

[Phil]

You need to write a new song, Ian.

[Ian]

Yeah, I have another one I was just working on last night that was really good.

[Carter Banks]

Okay, we do got some from Serge

[Phil]

X. Serge X from Serge X. Where's that?

[Carter Banks]

Oh, here we go.

[Phil]

Sergex. Question for the guest. You're from Houston. I have to go down there for work at times. My question is, have you noticed a huge increase in Muslims and what is causing that? Why are they picking Houston? Immigration's causing that, but go ahead.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Yes. So I'm friends. Good friends with. His name is Kenneth. Kenneth Webster. He actually do a radio show with him twice a week and he posted a video. There was a, like, I guess a Palestinian march in Houston and we're seeing this a lot in Democratic led cities. I mean, I'm sure you guys have heard about Epic City in the Dallas area.

[Carter Banks]

Yes. I saw a Twitter about that right between. I was like, wow. So because I'm based on Dallas and I'm like lost, changed in the last five years.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Basically a Muslim ran neighborhood almost. I think it got banned, I believe by the. By the state. But anyways. Yeah, so there is a. There is an increase in Muslims, but you see a nationwide too, so it's usually around Democrats strongholds.

[Olivia]

They allow it.

[Phil]

Yeah. Like I. I'm of the opinion that we should end immigration for about 20 or so years. Like only 150. 50 years.

[Carter Banks]

Oh, yeah.

[Olivia]

All right. Well, as long as it took to build up the problem.

[Phil]

It doesn't. What?

[Olivia]

Oh, how long?

[Phil]

Oh, how long?

[Carter Banks]

Yeah, problem.

[Olivia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ian]

Takes, I mean, times longer to solve it. It's like getting over a relationship.

[Phil]

Never again me, I. I would, I would think maybe, you know, O1s, maybe like 10, 000 people a year on O1 visas that are really special kind of things.

[Olivia]

But yeah, we don't need 50 years.

[Phil]

Yeah, we don't need. We don't need to have a lot of immigration for our lead. The people that are here assimilate, you know, the people that are here illegally, let the government find, take the time to find them and send them back to where they need to be. But the people that are here illegally that actually want to use that three thousand dollar check to get out of here, let them use the app and go back home. We'll pay you.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

The easiest way to do this with sanctuary cities is to cut federal funding from them or even the cities are the states. Like start strong arming and that's how you get it to work. But anyways.

[Phil]

All right, so what else? What else we got? You're acting racist. First of all. I'm not acting. Who's that?

[Olivia]

That was from Brian. Major threat Brian.

[Phil]

Major threat. Yeah. Well that's. That's not nice.

[Ian]

You said you're being racist.

[Phil]

No, no, he's. It's just a meme.

[Olivia]

I mean that says you're acting racist. First of all, I'm not acting.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah,

[Phil]

let's see, where are the questions? Don't they.

[Olivia]

Don't they see the one?

[Carter Banks]

Let me scroll down here.

[Phil]

No, from Alex. 80s question or comment for Ian. The 80s called. They want their jacket back. That's not a. That's not even Ian's jacket.

[Ian]

Copper. It's Tim's jacket.

[Phil]

It's Tim's jacket.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Threaded with copper, I believe.

[Carter Banks]

Kind of a newish type jacket too.

[Phil]

I have, I have one similar of mine's in black. I was wearing it on the last tour.

[Ian]

It's fresh.

[Carter Banks]

Wasn't that hot to wear that I

[Phil]

wore for about two or three songs and got rid of it.

[Ian]

But it looked really.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I was gonna say walking Moscow mule.

[Ian]

This Russian talk, get me.

[Phil]

It looked really cool under the lights.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah.

[Phil]

Question for Phil. Ian, please elaborate. How you think the oil extraction refinement should work instead of its current way. I have no idea because I'm not in the oil industry, so. Oh, I didn't. Ian's not either.

[Ian]

I didn't say we should change, did I? Didn't mean to intuit that we were supposed to change the extraction methods of oil. I don't know. I don't know enough about it.

[Phil]

I'm not sure exactly.

[Ian]

If you want to get oil out of the. Out of oil spills, you can put iron oxide dust into the oil spill and then use magnets. And the oil will coagulate around the magnets. And you can literally pull oil out of the ocean with magnets. And maybe you could reuse it. I don't know.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I was thinking about the dawn commercial. Just get a whole bunch of yellow ducks and just.

[Phil]

Just dip them in there.

[Carter Banks]

They'll.

[Phil]

They'll.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

That's how my brain works.

[Phil]

They'll soak up the oil and then.

[Ian]

Yeah, work with nature.

[Phil]

Wash them off with Dawn.

[Ian]

Great idea.

[Steve Loves Ammo]

I'm an environmentalist.

[Phil]

Oh, yeah.

[Ian]

Let's think of the people, Steve.

[Phil]

All right, question for the panel. Crisis says, we seem to be constantly ratcheting between. We're so back and it's so over. How much of this do you think is manufactured to break the will of people to resist Globo Homo? And how much is it just plain old dumb, cowardly people acting in their self interest? I am generally of the opinion that it's people acting in their self interest. And it doesn't even have to be the dumb, cowardly people. Like, everybody acts in their self interest. So generally, I think that people are pretty emotional. Even, like, people say, oh, like, men aren't emotional. Men are emotional. Men still vote with emotion. It's just the emotions that they're. That they kind of rely on are different emotions than the ones that women rely on. But men are just as emotional as women. Men act just as, you know, act because of emotion in the same way that women do. People believe narratives more than they believe the truth.

[Ian]

That.

[Phil]

And that goes for, you know, both sexes. So I don't think that it's. That it's anyone being dumb or cowardly. I think it's self interest in general.

[Olivia]

I think I'll say that just because it's the thing that people say, oh, we're so back. Like, yeah, it'll be really funny. I actually joke about with my friends. I'll see, like, kids riding on bikes, like, through my street. I'm like, oh, man. Kids are back on bikes. Man, we're so bad. Like, obviously. It's just, like, hyperbolic.

[Phil]

It's like the retard maxing guy, right? We're so back. Kids are again, we're back. Yeah, everything's gonna be great. Kids are outside playing, not a cell phone in sight. We're so back. Kids are retarded. Retard maxing.

[Olivia]

It's like, okay, you know, but it's like, every time, like, you see those posts are like absolute fire. These kids are outside playing you're like, yeah, they're being kids. Like, that's what happens.

[Phil]

It's, it's, it's mo. It's more about, you know, an exclamation of this is good or an exclamation of, of this is bad than anything else. You know, it's like you're not going to hear like, oh, that sucks. People are going to say, oh, it's so over. You know, it's just, we're cooked. Yeah, we're cooked. We're cooked. So Bung says question for the panel. How easy or likely would it be for the USA to fully move over to nuclear energy by the end of this century? By the end of this century? Probably pretty easily. I mean, that's. Yeah, that's 75 years from now, man.

[Ian]

Thorium reactors are super promising. I was just reading about those.

[Phil]

I mean, nuclear power in general, in my opinion, is, is extremely, extremely promising and, and should have been the, the key to basically free energy.

[Olivia]

Dude.

[Ian]

Thorium reactors don't. They've mitigated meltdowns because they'll have like an, a frozen plug at the bottom of the tank. So if the tank gets too hot, the plug melts and then it drains out and it doesn't, it doesn't overheat. And it, because it's mixed with like liquid salt, molten salt. A lot of times if, if there's a rupture in the system, it will expand naturally, so it will cool itself down. It doesn't melt down.

[Phil]

Good stuff.

[Ian]

Thorium is where it's at.

[Phil]

All right, smash the like button. Share the show with all your friends. Head on over to rumble.com become a member. Because Monday through Thursday we do the Rumble after show. Today's Friday, so we're not doing the after show. Head over to timcast.com become a member there. Join the Discord. Find yourself a girlfriend, make babies, all that good stuff. I am Phil that remains on Twix. You can check out my Patreon. It's patreon.comphillipremain. the band is all that remains. You can check us out on Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, YouTube, Spotify and Deezer. Where can people find you?

[Steve Loves Ammo]

Steve the MM at SteveLovesmo on tick tock, Facebook, Instagram and X.

[Olivia]

Okay, yeah, guys, you can find me on X on Instagram at Olivia Dasavic. You should go to timcast.com discord join our community. It is so much fun over there. We have a great. Again, timcast.com discordancrossland is where you get me.

[Ian]

Have a nice evening, everyone. It's Friday night. Have a blessed evening and thank your loved ones without being too talky. Kindness is your appreciation of the people and the things around you. So with that, you'll naturally treat them better. Just appreciate those people and do something about it.

[Carter Banks]

See you later. Yeah, I support that sentiment also, Steve, thanks for coming, hanging out. This has been great. I'm Carter Banks. You can follow me at Carter Banks on X and at Carter Banks official on Instagram. Check out our record label, Trash house Records on YouTube at Trash House Records. And yeah, we'll see y' all Monday.

[Phil]

One quick thing, Lacy, the fledgling asked question for the panel, is New York worth fighting for? Yes, it's part of America and all of America is worth fighting for. So yes, it's worth fighting for. You had a big, long question. I'm not gonna get into the rest of it, but yes, all of America is worth fighting for. Check us out clips over the check clips out over the weekend and we will see you all back here on.