Ami Kozak Uncensored: OnlyFans Nala DID NOT FAKE IT, IS Christian, Fake News Claims SHe Lied

Summary

Timcast IRL Podcast Summary: "Ami Kozak Uncensored: OnlyFans Nala DID NOT FAKE IT, IS Christian, Fake News Claims She Lied"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Timcast IRL
• Host/Author: Timcast Media
• Episode: Ami Kozak Uncensored: OnlyFans Nala DID NOT FAKE IT, IS Christian, Fake News Claims She Lied
• Release Date: November 24, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Timcast IRL, hosted by Tim Pool and featuring guests Ian Crossland, Michael Knowles, Eric July, and Phil Labonte, the discussion centers around recent controversies involving Nala Ray, a prominent OnlyFans creator, and broader socio-political issues. The conversation navigates through media manipulation claims, security concerns, legal insights, and deep dives into religious and geopolitical tensions.

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1. Nala Ray Controversy: Authenticity and Media Outrage

The episode opens with Ian Crossland addressing circulating claims that Nala Ray, an OnlyFans creator, lied about her conversion to Christianity. Crossland emphasizes that these claims are taken out of context and seeks to clarify the situation.

• Ian Crossland (00:26):

  "Nala Ray. There's a video going around where it's out of context to claim that Nala lied about becoming a Christian."

Crossland references a clip from the "Whatever" podcast, where Nala Ray admits to using clickbait strategies to grow her OnlyFans presence, stating that much of her content was fabricated to appeal to the male audience.

• Nala Ray (01:31 - 02:16):

  "Everything I've said on podcasts is complete clickbait. I did it to go viral, to then make money, and it worked. I said whatever I needed to because I understand the male brain and I needed to make money."

Michael Knowles intervenes to defend Nala Ray, suggesting that the context of her statements was misrepresented by outlets like Adam Townsend and the "Whatever" podcast.

• Michael Knowles (03:34):

  "Some people are so desperate to throw mud at anybody at the Daily Wire. There's so much envy and jealousy for all the success they've had over there."

The guests collectively argue that the portrayal of Nala Ray's confession as a complete lie is misleading, asserting that her conversion to Christianity is genuine.

• Phil Labonte (05:00):

  "But in reference to the pre-conversion part, what he's trying to portray is that her conversion is a lie, which is a totally different."

Notable Quote:

• Tim Pool (05:09):

  "The point that she's making is all of the stuff that I was doing was just to get clicks like this."

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2. Security Measures and Real-life Threats

The conversation shifts to a personal security incident experienced by the hosts in West Virginia. Ian Crossland recounts an event where a man threatened violence while attempting to enter their property, highlighting the necessity of stringent security measures.

• Ian Crossland (11:12 - 12:32):

  "We have drugs, we have dudes with rifles for obvious reasons. And we had to install a security gate. If someone jumps the fence on your property, it's just trespassing."

Phil Labonte adds context about the area being prone to death threats, necessitating proactive security installations like gates.

• Phil Labonte (12:32):

  "Yeah. That's like what Kamala said on Oprah. If you come to my house in the middle of now, you get do."

---

3. Legal Insights: Interaction with Law Enforcement

The discussion delves into the legal implications of interacting with police, using the example of Daniel Penny's interrogation. The guests provide advice on how to handle such situations to avoid potential legal pitfalls.

• Michael Knowles (15:08):

  "There's only one thing you should respond back to a cop with is am I being detained and am I free to go? Otherwise just shut the fuck up."

Eric July questions the legal nuances of self-defense, prompting Tim Pool to outline the three essential criteria: opportunity, intent, and ability.

• Tim Pool (18:07 - 19:04):

  "You have the opportunity, intent, you have the ability. Those are three things that like every state is going to have different laws."

The guests emphasize the importance of understanding state-specific laws regarding self-defense and the use of lethal force.

---

4. The United States: A Christian Nation?

A substantial portion of the episode is dedicated to debating whether the United States was founded as a Christian nation versus being influenced by Enlightenment ideals. The guests explore the historical context of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, arguing that Judeo-Christian values significantly shaped the nation's foundational documents.

• Phil Labonte (26:42 - 27:52):

  "It is not an opinion. It is a fact that you can literally read the history of the original articles in the Bill of Rights. It is based on Christian moral tradition."

Michael Knowles compares the U.S. to other nations with official churches, asserting that the U.S. is unique in its lack of an official centralized religion.

• Michael Knowles (25:05 - 26:31):

  "I think it's a nation that advances the Christian religion above other religions in our country... It's like that in many Muslim majority countries, too."

The discussion acknowledges the interplay between religious values and Enlightenment principles in shaping American freedoms and rights.

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5. Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: Religious and Historical Tensions

The conversation intensifies as the guests tackle the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, intertwining religious doctrines with historical events. They cite Islamic texts and Hadiths that promote hostility towards Jews, arguing that these religious beliefs fuel ongoing tensions and violence.

• Ian Crossland (46:51 - 47:35):

  "Article 7, Hamas charter, which is also, I believe it's the final verse of the Hadith. The day of judgment will not come until the Muslims fight Jews and kill them..."

Phil Labonte counters by emphasizing the historical dispossession of Jews in Arab lands, highlighting the lack of support for Jewish refugees compared to Palestinian narratives.

• Phil Labonte (43:49 - 44:22):

  "The Palestinian Authority is Mahmoud Abbas and he's considered more moderate... Israel's got 2 million Arab citizens."

Eric July discusses the need for reforming Islamic texts to foster peace, suggesting that religious doctrines contribute to the stalemate.

• Eric July (52:10 - 53:19):

  "There might have been a tribe at the time that they were at war with. That was written into the doctrine that we need to stop this tribe. It's a thousand 1500 years later..."

Tim Pool summarizes the deep-rooted historical and religious conflicts that impede peaceful resolutions.

• Tim Pool (54:38 - 55:22):

  "Islam is a religion of the sword. Christianity can have a reformation because of the way that Jesus was right. Jesus was not a warlord. Muhammad was a warlord."

Notable Quote:

• Ian Crossland (46:58):

  "This is a religious war. It's not a geographic dispute."

---

6. Technical Difficulties: Discord Outage

Midway through the episode, the hosts encounter technical issues with Discord, disrupting live interactions with their audience. They briefly address the problem, attempting troubleshooting steps to restore the chat functionality.

• Ian Crossland (23:48 - 24:31):

  "Discord is down, and really literally nothing we can do about it... Maybe we'll try and figure out a browser solution."

Despite efforts, the issue persists, leading to a temporary halt in live audience engagement.

---

7. Closing Remarks and Plans for Future Discussions

As the episode draws to a close, the hosts joke about taking Ian Crossland to Israel to witness the country firsthand. They express anticipation for future discussions on religion and international affairs.

• Michael Knowles (55:55 - 55:56):

  "We're saving it for when we take you to Israel, baby. We're dragging you there."

Eric July and Phil Labonte express enthusiasm about the prospect, while Ian Crossland signs off for the night.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Timcast IRL presents a robust discussion on media authenticity, personal security, legal strategies, the foundational ethos of the United States, and intricate religious and geopolitical conflicts. The guests provide a blend of personal anecdotes, legal insights, and heated debates, offering listeners a comprehensive exploration of contemporary issues from an unrestricted perspective.

Key Takeaways:

• Media Manipulation: The importance of context in media reporting, especially concerning personal narratives like Nala Ray's.
• Personal Security: Real-world implications of security threats and the necessity of preparedness.
• Legal Frameworks: Strategies for interacting with law enforcement and understanding self-defense laws.
• Foundational Values: The significant influence of Judeo-Christian morals alongside Enlightenment ideals in shaping American freedoms.
• Religious Conflicts: The enduring impact of religious doctrines on modern geopolitical tensions, particularly in the Israeli-Palestinian context.

Disclaimer: The discussions and opinions expressed in this summary reflect those of the podcast guests and do not necessarily represent factual accuracy or the views of Timcast Media.

Transcript

[Tim Pool]

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[Ian Crossland]

Welcome to our special weekend show Sunday Uncensored. Every week we produce four uncensored episodes of the Tim Cast IRL podcast [e-mail] and we're going to bring you the most important for our weekend show. If you want to check out more segments just like this, become a [e-mail] now. Enjoy the show. So you guys may have seen this. The Nala. What's her name? Nala Ray. Nala Ray. There's a video going around where it's out of context to claim that Nala lied about becoming a Christian. Well, Michael Knowles, he's got some knowledge for y'all. She didn't lie. So this is an out of context clip. Nala admits to having lied about everything. Question mark, exclamation point. The whatever podcast has put up an out of context clit. But let me play it for you so you can hear it and then we'll explain. Also, I will add discord isn't working and it's not us, it's. It's discord, unfortunately. So we'll just play and we'll see. We get going.

[Nala Ray]

As a viral creator on I went on so many podcasts because I knew the only reason.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm gonna pause right there real quick. They bleeped out. They blanked out the word only fans. She just says a viral creator on only fans. But they cut out that audio.

[Nala Ray]

As a viral creator on I went on so many podcasts because I knew the only way to grow my was to be viral. And it's such an oversaturated platform right now. And I've been on it for like five and a half years. So everything I've said on podcasts is complete clickbait. I did it to go viral, to then make money, and it worked. I said whatever I needed to because I understand the male brain and I needed to make money. And I was like, you lied about everything. Yeah, pretty much. As a viral creator.

[Ian Crossland]

So Adam Townsend had predicted that she was faking it. In April 7, Andy Kaufman, ask Brilliant and using Daily Wire as a vehicle to introduce her new Persona and identity construction. And then that was in April. And then he posts this clip saying, Nala Ray updated an epilogue. Nala admits she lied and her conversion was a cosplay to appeal to the male brain. Will Daily Wire and its cohorts admit they are cosplaying? Well, Michael Knowles chimes in, saying, some have posted this clip to suggest Nala lied on my show after quitting porn. But it seems clear from the context she's describing lying on podcasts before quitting porn, as she described on my show, hence her covering up, staying out of porn, et cetera. What am I missing? And a lot of people pointed this out. This is a cheap clickbait tactic. And some people believed it. There was one, I think. I think Andrew Wilson chimed in, saying, I wish I saw the full context because it's not correct. Walt Wang says, here's the full clip for context. Nala was discussing the fake cheating kink from her prior appearances on the podcast. She was lying. And so people are sharing this thing, and it's not correct. And I said, I saw this, and I just said, lol. She lied. Of course I assumed that. I assumed the context was correct. From Adam Townsend, he was wrong. And so I deleted the tweet. But that's now cleared up.

[Michael Knowles]

Some people are so desperate to throw mud at anybody at the Daily Wire. There's so much envy and jealousy for all the success they've had over there. So any opportunity, I think a lot of these guys get to throw mud at these guys, but it's with fake news.

[Ian Crossland]

No, I know, but it's everything in the. In the media ecosystem. It's Sam Cedar. We were. We were roasting him earlier because Ian was asking me how was it having him on. And then I explained how Sam's literally on the show we did has a fake outrage burst. And then once he's done, he goes, that was the clip I was trying to get. Like, just literally admitting that he was just trying to generate a viral clip. And then he was done and he stopped being angry, you know, with Nala. Fucking fake.

[Eric July]

This is sort of out of context. I understand that she said everything I did was a lie on a podcast. So if someone comes up to you and they say, I'm lying to you right now, what, do you believe them? Because if you do, that means they're telling you the truth and that they're lying to you, which means they're not lying to you, which is that conflict.

[Phil Labonte]

But it seems pretty clear what she's saying is that the whole story of building up her only Fans. No, no, she was a lie.

[Ian Crossland]

She was specifically not her confession. No. Nope. She's specifically talking about how she was on a show claiming to have certain kinks.

[Phil Labonte]

Yes.

[Ian Crossland]

And that was all not her whole only fans. She was saying I was lying about having a king.

[Phil Labonte]

I'm saying everything. Everything she was saying that wasn't true was in relation to building up her only fans audience. And then that was that episode where she's like, I just love cheating on people. I love cheating.

[Eric July]

And then when pressed, he's like, so everything you said was lying? She was like, pretty much. Which means. No, not everything. So maybe there was some truth in it.

[Phil Labonte]

But in reference to the pre conversion part, what he's trying to portray is that her conversion is. Is a lie, which is a totally different.

[Tim Pool]

It doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter.

[Phil Labonte]

That's before that.

[Tim Pool]

The point. Like what? The point that she's making is all of the stuff that I was doing was just to get clicks like this. I don't know that this is really helping her. I don't think this is going to help her get clicks if she's not making.

[Phil Labonte]

She's a sweet person.

[Tim Pool]

She's not making only fans content anymore. I don't think anyone's going to really care about that.

[Eric July]

She'd be cool guest someday, though. This is a cool conversation.

[Michael Knowles]

I think it's kind of ironic too, because I think they're kind of shitting on Knowles. Like, look, you're platforming her, but the Whatever podcast is really who kind of invented. And I don't actually don't know about her career prior to that, but what made her blow up on Twitter and many social media platforms off of OnlyFans was the attention she was getting from the whatever podcast. So it's kind of ironic.

[Tim Pool]

What'd you say?

[Michael Knowles]

I think most of the attention she got started from the Whatever podcast.

[Tim Pool]

I think that that is not accurate. She was pretty. If I understand she already huge before.

[Michael Knowles]

This because she's saying she was leveraging these conservative podcasts and I think the Whatever podcast is kind of a useful idiot in this realm. They'll constantly complain about all these porn stars and porn figures, but they're bringing them on and benefiting from them.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, I was going to say it's not. They're not useful idiots. They're clearly.

[Michael Knowles]

They're both like, mutually beneficial.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, mutually beneficial.

[Eric July]

They're symbiotic.

[Phil Labonte]

Clearly.

[Ian Crossland]

Clearly.

[Phil Labonte]

Because clearly they.

[Eric July]

She had a super viral clip from the Whatever podcast where she was crossing her eyes. That Propelled her into the ethos, basically.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

And then that was kind of hitting.

[Eric July]

The Michael Knowles interview, which if you haven't seen it, you probably should for context, was very genuine. Michael gave her a platform, a safe environment, very calm listening ear to kind of break down and. And talk about her past. I think that's people like Michael that she saw her like, okay, this. I'm not surrounded by crazy, lascivious men. There are good men and I can fix my life and it's okay.

[Tim Pool]

Well, didn't. She wasn't. Hadn't she already become a Christian when she went on Michael's show?

[Phil Labonte]

Yes, at that point in whatever days it looks like she wasn't and that's why she was saying that stuff. Then her conversion, which is believed to be genuine and that's what brought her into the daily wires orbit to begin with. They wouldn't have had her on before that for no reason.

[Eric July]

And she grew up Christian.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, the pastor's father's. I don't know if that was true, though. Maybe she was saying that to. I don't know. That part I don't know.

[Eric July]

That I assume is true. It all came out on the NOL show. Maybe I'll text it before and was a pretty intensely strict religious environment. So I think she revolted against it in her adolescence and then into her young adult life and then realized like, look, there's a middle ground.

[Phil Labonte]

Right?

[Eric July]

I don't need to.

[Tim Pool]

I don't think she's. I don't think she did make a. A middle ground. I think that she went. I mean, she's a. She's. That isn't middle ground. Like the way that dress is. This is. It's very conservative. It's very modest. She's wearing a hoodie that doesn't show her, you know, cleavage or whatever. And before she was really showing it off. I think that, I mean, now I, I can't speak for her. Her. You know, I can't speak for her. But it does seem like she is modest now and she is a Christian and, and has.

[Michael Knowles]

We don't know what the long term grift is either, though I wouldn't be surprised if she came out.

[Tim Pool]

Exactly, literally, exactly why I said you can't speak. I can't speak even the pastor about the way that it looked.

[Phil Labonte]

Even the pastor's daughter narrative could be a thing. Things she's saying to like for the male brain.

[Michael Knowles]

Ooh, you're looking at porn of the pastor's daughter.

[Phil Labonte]

Like it makes it so I'm not Sure. If she's saying everything before I converted was just clickbait. I was doing only fans, but it's all clickbait generated. So you just don't know she's trying to say yes. Everything I've said on this podcast, my whole narrative, my whole story, the kinks, the things that I'm into, all that stuff is not true. It was a way to bring fans, to bring male audiences to my fan. So I'm not sure have her on.

[Eric July]

Yeah, that was the whole point.

[Tim Pool]

The whole point of her doing the stuff before it was to. To garner.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

You know, male, male audience to her. To her only fans.

[Michael Knowles]

Have you guys ever had an only fans person on Tim?

[Tim Pool]

I don't know.

[Ian Crossland]

No, I don't think so.

[Eric July]

Not that talked about it.

[Ian Crossland]

Not that open.

[Eric July]

Not that I've been. I thought about making an only fan philosophy.

[Tim Pool]

There was. There was a time where there was someone in the culture war that was. What was her name? Oh man, that's. She was. She was an adult actress before. I don't know if she actually has a. Has an only fans, but it was a. An adult actress. And then another. A Christian girl.

[Eric July]

We're on.

[Tim Pool]

They had a debate. I forget what. What the. What the girls name is.

[Phil Labonte]

Jenna Jameson, famous person.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, it was. I don't know. I don't remember what her name was, but there was again, I don't know if she actually. I don't know if she has an only fans or not, but she. There wasn't a. She was. She'd done like sex work and stuff like that. And there was a. A Christian woman on that, that they did the debate on the culture.

[Eric July]

It used to be a website really, just to speak to your fans, like Patreon. And then at some point the porn. The porners started to get the. Become the most popular and then the site took on a reputation for porn and then it attracted more pornography and then just the owners of the website were like, let's roll with it. We're making bank.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I know. Pornhub. I think they have like a thing where you have to enter in your information to access. I wonder if that's also the deal for only fans. So I might have to look into.

[Eric July]

That some in some states. No, I can. I can verify in Texas they do want your age verified. It's state only fans.

[Ian Crossland]

No.

[Eric July]

For pornhub porn.

[Michael Knowles]

Were you in Texas or.

[Eric July]

I was just in Texas. Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

Okay. Wow. And did you put it in?

[Eric July]

No, I would not. Ever. I can't say never. Never. I have no interest in supplying my age and date for a porn site. I don't need it like that.

[Tim Pool]

But wow.

[Michael Knowles]

So it actually managed to compel you to not watch porn. But it did. Wow.

[Eric July]

How to use my imagination. And it was well worth it. Yes, Imagination all the way. I'm from the 80s where that's all we had was our imagination, so that's easy enough.

[Michael Knowles]

So you have to put in real info. It's not like, oh, I was born in fucking.

[Eric July]

Don't know. I don't know how deep it goes. That's a good point. Maybe it just. You need to put in. Joe Schmo is like on Steam when you're looking at some video games. It's like, verify your age and you can put in any number. And if it's makes you older than 18, they'll be like, okay, here you go. But they don't want your. They don't need you to do it.

[Tim Pool]

What?

[Eric July]

I was going to say something else. You guys want to talk about? George Washington's obsessive. I don't know what's better.

[Tim Pool]

We. We can talk about whether or not they're Christians.

[Ian Crossland]

We can talk about. A guy came here and almost died today.

[Eric July]

What happened?

[Tim Pool]

Oh, boy.

[Ian Crossland]

A guy showed up claiming that he was on a mission from God and people with guns were going to shoot him.

[Eric July]

Don't trespass.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, if we didn't. Apparently he was on drugs. I don't know that's what happened.

[Phil Labonte]

But no, I saw. I showed up early.

[Ian Crossland]

So we have drugs, we have dudes with rifles for obvious reasons. And we had to install a security gate.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

And so the assumption is if we didn't have the gate, he would have just crashed the property and died.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

If he. If. If he. If we didn't have. This is why we had the security gate. Because we. At first we just had signs and people came in and had guns trained on them. And then all of a sudden it's like, people are freaking out and we're like. So we install this really expensive gate so people can't get through. And then this is West Virginia, and this is a location where people get death threats all the time. So when a stranger shows up, people put their hands on their hips. When a guy shows up and says, I'm on a mission from God and jumps out of his car, the guns are pointed. So the police came, apparently. I don't know exactly what happened. I don't deal with it for a variety of reasons I'm not supposed to. And then the dude, I guess, was saying something about he was going to come back either way. And so then people with rifles showed up. And, like, the line between it's funny to show up here and you die is thin. So don't fucking show up on this property.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, okay. That's like what Kamala said on Oprah. If you come to my house in the middle of now, you get do.

[Michael Knowles]

Not come invite only property.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm going to come as physical barriers, and when as soon as you cross a single shred of the physical barrier, which in some positions may be a single line of twine, you die in. I don't know how many states have this law, but burglary is crossing a physical barrier to enter a property. And the moment you do that, especially when the people there have reasonable fear of harm, then security doesn't care. Like, nobody wants to get hurt. Nobody wants to hurt anybody else. But if someone shows up and we see them trying to enter the property in some, you know, surreptitious means or whatever, they're just dead.

[Eric July]

You're making something about Daniel Penny. They just released his. His. What you call his interrogation by the.

[Michael Knowles]

Cops, where he spilled the beans.

[Eric July]

He said that everyone's like, he should have a lawyer. Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer.

[Ian Crossland]

He didn't know anyone was dead, you know? And so this is why you don't talk to cops.

[Eric July]

So.

[Ian Crossland]

So what happens is a fight breaks out. He restrains a guy with two other guys. He leaves and has no idea anything happened. And the cops are like, you want to come down and talk to us and tell us what happened? He's thinking, it was a. It was a fight, you know, like, they're probably asking me, like, why I was fighting. It's no big deal, because what's the worst case scenario? An assault charge.

[Phil Labonte]

Mm.

[Ian Crossland]

And so I do think, in the end, it's gonna work out for him because it shows he's calm, doesn't even know the guy's dead, and says, I'm not trying to kill the guy. He's just. He was threatened to kill people. And I thought, how to de escalate this? But now everyone's saying, like, how the fuck did he talk to the cops with no lawyer? He did not know? So you could be riding your bike down the street, and you. And, like, someone else is riding their bike, and you crash, and the guy gets up and he's like, oh, my bike's ruined. And. Or a better example is you're driving your car, and then you get to an Accident in an intersection. The guy checks, takes your information down, everything seems fine. And then you drive home, the cops show up and they're like, can we talk to you about that accident from earlier? And you were like, oh yeah, guy gave me his information, everything seemed to be okay. And they're like, yeah, okay, so tell us more. And you're like, well I was driving, here's what happened. And they're like, oh, okay. Then it turns out later the guy had a brain bleed and died. And they said you were driving recklessly and that's negligent homicide. Now you go to prison. Don't fucking talk to cops.

[Michael Knowles]

My question, I am not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice. There's only one thing you should respond back to a cop with is am I being detained and am I free to go? Otherwise just shut the fuck up. Am I being detained? If not, am I free to go? And then you go on your jolly way. If you are being detained, then if they ask you any questions, I need to speak to my lawyer. I can't speak to you guys any any further. Just shut the fuck up and you'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

[Phil Labonte]

You watch those YouTube videos. Am I being detained?

[Eric July]

Self defense.

[Michael Knowles]

It's just the fuck up, right? Am I being detained? Am I being detained? That's the only engagement you have to do. Am I free to go? Am I being detained? Then am I free to go?

[Eric July]

My question to you guys about the Daniel Penny experience. So he, it was a 30 minute interrogation. They clipped it down to about eight minutes that I watched and posted on Twitter. He said at one point that the guy walked onto the train, started threatening, say, I'm going to kill everyone, I'm going to kill people. I'm ready to die for this, I'm ready to go to prison or whatever. Ripped off his shirt and then Penny put him in a chokehold of some sort. The guy and the cops were like, so you didn't see him put his hands on anyone? And he was like, I don't remember seeing that. Is he. The guy didn't put his hands. Is, is Penny right?

[Michael Knowles]

I think the issue was because he was, he told the cops, I'm not trying to kill the guy. So that's the kind of phrase that could get you screwed here because you didn' kill the guy. Kind of has an implication in lawyer speak that I think it helps him. Cuz you think it helps him.

[Ian Crossland]

I think the jury is going to see a guy who has no idea anything bad happened.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm not trying to kill the guy. I accidentally killed the guy because they're trying to charge him with. I think it's a manslaughter charges.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, the main issue is that New York jurors are who drink fluoride and probably eat toothpaste. So they're not in prison anyway.

[Eric July]

What is that? Something they can show at the trial. His irrigation now because it was leaked.

[Ian Crossland]

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[Eric July]

It leaked. I think it was.

[Phil Labonte]

Hey, Eric Bolling here inviting you to check out my new podcast, Bowling, where we deliver a daily dose of uncensored, unfiltered truth. My new show is based on the bedrock of democracy, free speech. Every day. I promise to expose those who misinform, edit and push outright lies for their own agenda on bowling. The truth is always our top priority. So don't wait, listen and subscribe to Bowling Right now, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

[Eric July]

So is that it? You have legal? If someone comes on and just makes verbal threats and like I'm going to kill somebody, they take their shirt off, they're like, I'm ready to go now. But they don't actually move on anybody. Is that a reason to put them out?

[Ian Crossland]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, you're making verbal threats. You need time, you need opportunity, intent, and ability. So you're in the same place. You have the opportunity, intent, you're articulating that you can and ability. Can you physically do something? Those are three things that like every state is going to have different laws. But when it comes to using, when it comes to defending yourself using force, that's what you have to have. The person has to have the ability, opportunity and intent. If someone says they're going to, they're there and they're. And they're. They're not like, not their hands on you. That's.

[Eric July]

That's all those things were met. All.

[Tim Pool]

Sadly, they're all met.

[Phil Labonte]

You don't have to wait till they're.

[Michael Knowles]

Different than if you're in Florida because in Florida you have stand your ground laws, which those totally.

[Tim Pool]

But the point, the point that I'm making is all the laws are different, but the. To use to be able to say, okay, there was reason for me to defend myself, that when it comes to how far, how much force you're allowed to use, how far you're allowed to go and stuff like that, that's all different from state to state. But when it comes to. I was defending myself because he was there, he could do something and he said he was going to. If you have those three things, then you can say, okay, I. He said he was going to and he was there. And I, so I, I felt like, you know, I had to defend myself. Again, all of the specifics are going to be different from state to state. You know, maybe you had to leave, maybe you should have been like, well, you should have left or whatever. But if you have those three things, then, then that meets the criteria for saying, yes, I can, I can defend myself. But it's not, you know, again, the laws about how you are allowed to defend yourself, those change from state to state. So yeah, lethal force.

[Phil Labonte]

I know. You don't have to wait till the person is hurting you.

[Tim Pool]

Exactly.

[Phil Labonte]

The idea that you're under duress. If somebody's saying, I'm going to kill you now doesn't have to actually be in the act of killing you, but the threat of force is, makes defending yourself legitimate.

[Tim Pool]

You don't have to wait until he starts shooting.

[Eric July]

If someone calmly across the room looks at me and says it to me, I don't have the right to get up and put him in a chokehold, right?

[Tim Pool]

No, but if he gets up and starts walking towards you, then, then, okay, then he's, then he's demonstrated intent. Not only is he said, but he's demonstrated. He's walking forward.

[Eric July]

He did this guy demonstrate intent? So if you're like standing there.

[Tim Pool]

So if someone's on the phone, right. Or you're doing facetiming someone and he's got a gun in his hand, he's like, I'm gonna. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can't find him.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

To, to get into a fight with him or whatever because he doesn't have the ability. Right. He's not in the room with you. He's demonstrated intent but he doesn't have the opportunity to do it.

[Phil Labonte]

All three.

[Tim Pool]

You have to have all three of those three.

[Eric July]

The question is, did this guy demonstrate threat?

[Tim Pool]

He said it, but saying it and he's. Look, the point is he's there and he's saying he wants to, and that's enough.

[Eric July]

The witnesses, I guess, saying, look, he.

[Tim Pool]

Said he was going to.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Eric July]

I mean, like I said, if a guy across the room calmly says it to me, it doesn't really.

[Michael Knowles]

It wasn't him, like, going across the subway, like, yelling in people's faces, like, I'm going to fucking kill you. I'm going to fucking kill you.

[Tim Pool]

Pacing around. He's not, he's not just sitting there.

[Michael Knowles]

Being, oh, gee whiz, I'm gonna kill you. I wasn't like, from across the hall. Was not the situation.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah.

[Eric July]

And it wasn't like a calm sentence. He was yelling it and ripped his shirt off.

[Ian Crossland]

I was like, I'm ready to go to jail.

[Michael Knowles]

And I think we're already dealing with the consequences of it because it's the feeling around the city, you're not able to defend yourself.

[Tim Pool]

Wasn't he saying, I'm ready to die?

[Michael Knowles]

Something like that.

[Tim Pool]

If he.

[Michael Knowles]

I'm ready to die.

[Tim Pool]

If it like. Yeah, when you're talking like that, man, it's completely.

[Phil Labonte]

Oh, like a die.

[Michael Knowles]

And I think other people also felt threatened. He wasn't the only one. Yeah, yeah.

[Eric July]

I would think the witnesses would carry this trial. I. It, on its face, it looks like I was going to say he should be acquitted. I mean, I. But I don't know enough about the situation. I think that's up to the jury to decide. It really is.

[Tim Pool]

Of course, jury up to the witness definitely should have been acquitted because he didn't. He was. It wasn't like he was trying to murder the guy and the, the guy was on drugs and like there, he had a. A condition as well. So it's like, look, man, obviously, you know, Penny didn't. Daniel Penny. Restraining the guy didn't help. Help.

[Michael Knowles]

But wait, he was a Michael Jackson impersonator. So this is interesting.

[Ian Crossland]

I just double checked. In Maryland, the law is actually a bit stronger than West Virginia. West Virginia. If someone jumps a fence on your property, it's just trespassing. And you are only allowed to use force if you have a reasonable fear of harmony, which obviously applies here. So I want to make that clear. But the idea is, like, if you were. If you or anybody else and someone jumps over your fence is on your property, you have to first instruct them to leave. If they then present a threat, you can use lethal force. And you have no duty to retreat from your property. In Maryland, interestingly enough, while you have to retreat to your home, if you hang a piece of twine at any point around your property and someone steps over it, they've committed burglary.

[Phil Labonte]

Nice.

[Ian Crossland]

And. And burglary is a much more serious offense. That's kind of crazy.

[Eric July]

The twine has to be at body level, I assume. Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

Nope. Any. Any physical obstruction over a path is considered like. And I think the reason for this is you. Someone made a small fence, and they said, it's a tiny little fence. I can jump right over it. But not everybody can. And then it also would limit people who are poor. So you were legally allowed to create any kind of physical obstruction in West Virginia for the average person, if you jump a fence, then you're on your property, you can instruct them to leave. If they don't leave and you have a fear of harm, you can kill them. In Maryland, if they refuse to leave and you have a fear of harm, you have to retreat to your home. Then if they try to enter your home, you can kill them. So here in West Virginia, with the security guards and the fencing, we clearly have reasonable fears of harm. And it's fairly obvious someone trying to break in is not doing so accidentally.

[Phil Labonte]

And in Texas, you can break into their home when they're sleeping and strangled them.

[Ian Crossland]

In Texas, you'll die.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

In Texas.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

You will die.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, yeah, No, I know. I mean, I meant in retaliation.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, guys, Discord is down, and really literally nothing we can do about it. What happened to Discord doesn't work like.

[Eric July]

Huh? In general. I wonder.

[Ian Crossland]

Yep.

[Eric July]

So all of Discord is down or is just the servers down?

[Michael Knowles]

Speaking of.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, I can see the chat running on the show, but it's Twitter running poorly.

[Phil Labonte]

Discord down or something. Is it. Is it like a Discord down?

[Eric July]

It looks like it's up, and the live chat is up. You're just having technical difficulties getting it.

[Ian Crossland]

This is a brand new computer with different specs from the old one that's fixed a bunch of problems. And Discord is behaving the exact same way. So I think it's a bug in the Discord browser. Web browser app or whatever.

[Eric July]

Use the web browser and not the program.

[Ian Crossland]

I mean. I mean, the program.

[Phil Labonte]

All the questions at the Discord.

[Eric July]

You could flip over to the web browser and try it there. I don't know if you can quickly. Yeah, well, we could just talk about fucking religion, man.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't know.

[Eric July]

Do you guys want to cash that?

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. This country is a Christian nation. Not in its format as a theocratic nation like a Muslim country, but the, the rules and the laws were intended to be for Christians.

[Eric July]

Now my thought is we're going to end up one day like Jesus came along and reformed Judaism and then a new religion came about. One day someone will come along and reform Christians. Mormons. Well, it was called Christianity.

[Ian Crossland]

Do you know Mormonism is.

[Eric July]

It was like Joseph Smith trying to reform his own Christian.

[Ian Crossland]

Mormonism believes that Jesus came to, came back, came to the states and was killed by the Native Americans. So God stained their skins red. But the more the Mormon religion is basically after Christianity, the new New Testament.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, there's, there's also, there's. There was also a period in history, or Christian history called the Reformation, where the, where Christianity went from being like, fair, like kind of medieval, to a more modern, updated Protestantism. I don't think so. I'm not, I'm not 100 sure. I just, I know that there was.

[Michael Knowles]

I mean, I understand a Christian nation to be a nation that advance it. I mean, not just a nation that has majority Christians or is mostly Christian, but a nation.

[Tim Pool]

It was Protestantism. Yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

I think it's a nation that advances the Christian religion above other religions in our country. It's a country that establishes a church. It has some people who are in elected positions who are only there for religious reasons. So, like, for example, in Israel, they have an official rabbinate and it's explicitly said in our Constitution that they try to advance Judaism above other religions and it's treated differently. It's like that in many Muslim majority countries, too. So if we're just a Christian nation in that. Where the original stock of the country was mostly Christian. Yeah, but I don't think that.

[Ian Crossland]

And the Bill of Rights were constructed for a moral and religious people that followed.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, moral and religious people.

[Ian Crossland]

Not who follow a Christian moral tradition.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, some do and some don't. A lot of them don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, which is.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, let's pause real quick.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

It is not an opinion. It is a fact that you can literally read the history of the original articles in the Bill of Rights. It is based on Christian moral tradition. That's a fact.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, yeah, I totally agree.

[Ian Crossland]

And when they said it was for a moral and religious people, they were referring to people who would follow a Christian moral tradition. And we're not talking about Muslims. Want to Murder Jews?

[Phil Labonte]

No, but. But you're saying that the ideas that were formed in the founding documents were informed by Christianity.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, Christian ideas.

[Phil Labonte]

The confusion that we're talking cross purposes here is that we as a country are distinct from other countries that have official churches, like the Church of England. Catholic France has official. Has an official church, even though these are secular societies. And then there's theocratic societies. But even the secular ones, like in Europe, for example, they have an official Anglican church.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Ian Crossland]

And the head. And the king is the head of.

[Phil Labonte]

The head of the church. So it is a. It is kind of more officially a Christian Protestant nation or an official Catholic nation. And the United States is unique amongst most countries in that it does not have an official church or an official centralized religion.

[Ian Crossland]

So the point is.

[Phil Labonte]

And they have blasphemy laws in the UK too. Like there are things we don't have.

[Ian Crossland]

We did have. We used to have all that stuff.

[Phil Labonte]

And we don't anymore.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, only because of modern sensibilities. And some might argue that's wrong. George Carlin went to jail for swearing.

[Phil Labonte]

Right, right.

[Ian Crossland]

And people don't understand this, but in the 80s, you don't have a right to keep and bear arms. It wasn't actually until 2008 with DC versus Heller, where you actually had to carry a gun outside. Typically, people did. And for the most part, it's because what is a constitution? There's written constitutions and unwritten constitutions. So the UK is an unwritten constitution. Constitution is defined as what constitutes the people in the body, politicians. We decided actually the American people to write it down because they were like, no, we don't trust you, because look what they did. They were fucking with us, so write it fucking down. We get to the point where we're trying to interpret and change the document. Well, we are already fucked.

[Tim Pool]

The thing about not having a right to keeping bear arms and stuff, for a long time in the United States, it was assumed that if there was no law prohibiting it, then you had. Then it was allowed. Because that's what free means.

[Eric July]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

If there's nothing that says you can't, then you're allowed to. And as states started making more and more regulations about whether or not. Whether you could or not carry a gun and stuff, then people started to say, well, hold on, we're supposed to be a free country. And the Second Amendment supposed to. And it took D.C. versus Heller to. To articulate clearly that they do have. Yeah, 2008. It took. It took that finding so here Supreme Court to say, yes, we do have that right, and it is protected by the second.

[Ian Crossland]

Here's the issue. Back in the day when they were writing this stuff down, the mistake they made, they were close. They were like, we should write it down. It was the presumption that, look, when I go to my neighbor's house, we all agree murder is bad, you know, and killing children is bad. They didn't understand that there would come a time in this country, based on the things they wrote, where people who believed in killing being good would come here. Otto von Bismarck said, it is better that 10 innocent people suffer than one guilty person escape. An inversion of Blackstone's formulation and which, in my opinion, obviously leads to destabilization of nations. Well, now we are in a country with a large growing population of postmodernist communists, Marxists and leftists who believe that to be the case, that it is better that you lose your job and you are fucked regardless of whether you're innocent or not, so that our structure can stand. So Milo made a great point when he said free speech is being weaponized by amoral people without fear or virtue to destroy this country. The corporate press, they stand behind freedom of speech so that the First Amendment so that they can burn down people's lives and cause harm to people and steal power. A moral and virtuous person wouldn't do that. That's why lying doesn't work on the right. If I may, it does to some extent. But if I made a video where I said, ben Collins of the Onion is being investigated for child rape, no one on the right is going to believe it. They're going to be like, that's not true. But if the left does it, liberals go. Because they have no morals. They don't care. They want only power. So when the founding father said, you have a right to speak your mind, to worship to your religion, it was under the presumption that everybody shared these moral values which come from the Christian tradition.

[Phil Labonte]

My question is this, though. To what extent is that uniquely Christian versus what predates Christian? The idea of these individual sovereignty.

[Ian Crossland]

They don't exist in other cultures.

[Phil Labonte]

They don't exist in other cultures. I guess I'm.

[Ian Crossland]

It is not universal.

[Phil Labonte]

Arguing for the. What's that?

[Ian Crossland]

It's not universal.

[Phil Labonte]

I'm saying the ideas that became Christian ideas, right? Like Judeo Christian ideas that we generally associate as the west as a Judeo Christian construct of.

[Ian Crossland]

Right. That's why we say Judeo Christian. Christian.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

Judeo Christian.

[Phil Labonte]

So because I think the confusion in the conversation is coming from this idea that, well, they didn't all believe in Jesus or they didn't not believe in the. Like you're, you're. If you're not talking distinctly Christianity, but you're talking more general values than.

[Michael Knowles]

I think they're talking of a Christian stock more than an explicitly Christian when they try to reference.

[Ian Crossland]

Talking about the Bible.

[Phil Labonte]

Right, right. Which, but, but which elements of it. Which values in particular. And are you saying are, are, are the Christian ones versus the general ones? Because I would say, like when you say based. We're. We're based on Christianity. Right?

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah.

[Phil Labonte]

Which, which ide. Because I don't think the country was founded on necessarily believing in unalienable rights. Right. That come from God, which is shared by Judaism.

[Ian Crossland]

And then the Constitution doesn't grant rights. It protects the. You from the government infringing.

[Phil Labonte]

Absolutely. But I'm just saying, which is like, like the idea of the Trinity is not something the country was based upon, but it was based on the individual rights. So that's what I think you're talking.

[Michael Knowles]

About is the Enlightenment. Are we calling the Enlightenment downstream of Christianity as well? Because I feel like if anything, the Enlightenment had just as much influence.

[Ian Crossland]

Where did the Enlightenment start?

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, it had to start in the west, in Europe. You had. You have to value individual rights and the, and the natural rights of human beings in order to get the proliferation of these kinds of ideas.

[Michael Knowles]

Because I think there are more Enlightenment ideals in our Constitution and founding documents than there are explicitly Christian ideas. Yeah, but then if you're saying the Enlightenment is downstream from.

[Ian Crossland]

Didn't start in India.

[Michael Knowles]

Didn't start in India.

[Eric July]

Yeah. No, but the larger of the Enlightenment, that's for sure.

[Michael Knowles]

Freedom of expression, freedom of religion, Ben Franklin especially, these are all I believe to be Enlightenment ideals.

[Phil Labonte]

But I have seen on the right this idea of taking free speech to this extreme where everybody on the, you know, right of center is so afraid, is so afraid of being called a leftist that they won't call anything out as problematic. And I find that that's been going on too. Whereas.

[Ian Crossland]

What do you mean so for so.

[Phil Labonte]

Long the left would cancel anybody for, for like the slightest. For a joke with like the culture of. The culture of cancel culture was predominantly on the left. I think the reaction to that that I've seen on the right is more recently this idea that when we do see something that's problematic, racist or anti Semitic, we're not going to call it out because we don't want to look like a leftist. And so there's been this inability to sort of parse between calling out something that's actually problematic and saying there shouldn't be legal consequences for that kind of speech. But that doesn't mean we have to.

[Ian Crossland]

Necessarily endorse think generally though maybe sometimes.

[Phil Labonte]

I went through that more in the past. Like, you know, like in the sort of Bian Tate Owens world of like, of saying a lot of.

[Ian Crossland]

But they are. But they hold a lot of leftist values. So this like the.

[Phil Labonte]

So I guess I have to define what I mean by the right, but I think you know what I mean generally.

[Ian Crossland]

So the Israel derangement syndrome people, their ideology and worldview is very much in line with leftist worldview 100%.

[Phil Labonte]

But when I say that semantically, I'm just trying to draw those distinctions between what you would otherwise associate as sort of the right of center in the media culture versus the left of center. You mean in the sense that what, that there's a collectivist mindset that they're.

[Ian Crossland]

No, that it's a group of people who have singled out another group of people as those who are more privileged conspiring against them.

[Phil Labonte]

That's the irony.

[Ian Crossland]

Start wars. The left says white people. The Israel derangement syndrome people say the Jews.

[Phil Labonte]

Yes.

[Ian Crossland]

And I'm like picking the occupiers, say the 1% right.

[Phil Labonte]

And it's very anti capitalist.

[Michael Knowles]

Israel's occupiers too. But once they're done with Israel, they'll come to the American. They'll talk about the American occupation too. I live on the Lenape land is what they're saying.

[Phil Labonte]

They don't even occupy like we're not.

[Michael Knowles]

America is right from their perspective.

[Ian Crossland]

But it's Jewish privilege. Right. When they say like they like it's them and all that stuff, I'm like, you're just saying Jewish privilege. Like the funny thing is the left.

[Phil Labonte]

Supplementing the left, made a pyramid that.

[Ian Crossland]

Shows the races of people and it's like, it's like a small group of white people on top. Then there's like Asians, then there's Latino and then black. And they were like, you're here. And then other leftists who are associated with Farrakhan remade it and added a Jewish star on top and said actually that's what it is.

[Eric July]

And I'm like, oh my Jewish whatever you want conspiracy. Do you think that there is like a cabal of racist Jewish people that are like anyone that's not Jewish is below us. We are going to take control. Do you think there's anything like that?

[Tim Pool]

I Don't know about take control, but.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't know if racist is the right word.

[Eric July]

No, because is Jew a race or not?

[Tim Pool]

I don't know.

[Phil Labonte]

But no Jews. And ethno, there's a racial component to being Jewish in that you're born Jewish, but it's essentially a tribe, a part of a Jewish family. You can marry into it, so you can become. But no, there's not a cabal of. Well, you said.

[Ian Crossland]

Here's what he's saying.

[Phil Labonte]

Supremacist Jews.

[Ian Crossland]

No, no. He's talking about how they say the goyim. No. And so this idea that Jews view themselves above everyone else. And I'm just like, I have been told by many Christians that I'm going to go to hell.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

Not in a mean way. So if a Jewish person says that we think those who follow Jew with faith are following the right one, and you are wrong and you're an outsider. And I'm like, every religion feels that way.

[Phil Labonte]

That's what I said. I said that to Candace Owen. She said to me, we talked about Jewish supremacy. We were having a debate. And she says to me, like, I just have a problem with Jewish supremacy, that Jews think they're better than everyone else. And I'm like, let me ask you something. Do you think Christianity is better than everything else? You think everyone should be Christian? Are you a Christian supremacist? I just think the word supremacy is this strange word.

[Michael Knowles]

She's a Christian nationalist. So.

[Ian Crossland]

But.

[Phil Labonte]

But I'm just saying, she goes, oh. And it was a moment. I'm like, everybody who's part of a certain identity and culture, whatever kind of Jews don't proselytize, we don't try to convert like other people to all become Jewish.

[Michael Knowles]

You don't have to be Jewish to.

[Phil Labonte]

Be viewed as equal or equally valuable. So this idea is. I think it stems more from this idea that because Jews are overrepresented in a lot of areas of prominence, people assume there's some sort of malicious thing.

[Ian Crossland]

And there's.

[Phil Labonte]

Thomas Sowell writes about this pretty extensively, that it's a lot to do with culture, scholarship, values, family. And you see that with a lot of minority groups in majority countries that do well. And there's parallels across the board from the Lebanese in Africa, Chinese in Malaysia.

[Tim Pool]

You're talking about two different things. If you're talking about supremacy, it's people that think they're better or other people are beneath. It's one thing to feel like you have suprem supremacy. It's totally different to have a preference. So you as a. So if you're a Jewish person and you have a preference for Jewish culture, that's perfectly normal.

[Ian Crossland]

That's totally not what's being talked about. What's not being talked about is the idea that there are Jews who think we are the chosen people.

[Tim Pool]

That's why I said there's two different things being talked about. The thing you're talking about is what I was about to talk about.

[Ian Crossland]

And so Christians and Jews fundamentally believe the same thing. My religion is right and my people are following the correct path. Everyone else is not. So but Jews actually don't have a.

[Phil Labonte]

History of even trying to impose it.

[Ian Crossland]

That's not preference.

[Phil Labonte]

I have is imposition.

[Eric July]

This is. When I think about Theodore Herzog Zionist.

[Ian Crossland]

This is not preference, though. This is supremacy. No matter what religion it is that seeks to. And you made the point that Jews don't proselytize. They're not going out and converting, you know, or whatever. The point is every religion wants everyone to be a part of their religion because their religion is true and correct. And they're not ever going to come out and be like, you know, my religion's not as good as yours or your religion makes a bunch of good points. They're going to say, no, you're completely wrong.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Phil Labonte]

No, you're talking about preference that they feel preference.

[Tim Pool]

Jews don't have that because Jews don't do that. Jews, it's. You're born into Judaism, you can convert.

[Phil Labonte]

But they also. They don't believe everyone should be Jewish.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, the Jews aren't in Islam.

[Phil Labonte]

Everyone has to be Muslim.

[Ian Crossland]

That was the big difference.

[Phil Labonte]

Generally is a universal concept.

[Ian Crossland]

That's why Jesus was a blasphemer.

[Phil Labonte]

Right.

[Ian Crossland]

Because he came in and said everyone can be Jewish. Everyone should be.

[Phil Labonte]

Oh, he universalized Judaism in the form. Well, Paul really did. I think, hey guys, I think we.

[Michael Knowles]

Should go to college if we can.

[Ian Crossland]

Is it working? I want to try.

[Phil Labonte]

At least I just had on there.

[Eric July]

Yeah, that's if you want to try.

[Ian Crossland]

But it's not working.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Eric July]

Herzl was the founder of Zionism and he was kind of forceful. Like I had some quotes of him.

[Ian Crossland]

He.

[Eric July]

He thought other people than Jews were lesser than. He had kind of the Jewish supremacist take. I think I'm getting the right guy.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Well, hers real quick.

[Ian Crossland]

I just want to say guys, in the discord who wants like we're not. We're even muted in. I can't. For those that are trying to call. I'M sorry, dude, it's, it's, it's like a 40 second to a minute lag on where the mouse even is.

[Phil Labonte]

Boy.

[Ian Crossland]

So we'll just have this conversation and we'll see if we can figure out what's wrong with it. I think it's, I think it's the app and maybe we'll try and figure out a browser solution which reinstall.

[Eric July]

Get the browser anyways back up and.

[Ian Crossland]

Then, you know, you have a quote.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you have a quote that you.

[Eric July]

Want to reference for him while you guys are going?

[Phil Labonte]

Herzl. One of the things that Herzl believed was wasn't responding with the idea of Jewish supremacy. It was responding to a world that believes Jews were inferior. And therefore because of the persecution of Jews and the danger that Jews were facing in Europe, the Dreyfus affair in which a Jewish person was publicly lynched. There have been such historical.

[Michael Knowles]

On false pretenses.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, historical anti loyal French Jew. He prioritized the idea for Jewish safety and security. It wasn't based in Jewish supremacy. It was based in the idea that the other outside world that Jews lived in viewed Jews as inferior for thousands of years historically they've been facing this continual oppression. And so he then said, okay, we're not safe here, we're not safe in Europe. What are we going to do? And he founded the idea of a project in which Jews should self determine to have a state just like many others.

[Michael Knowles]

And although he was the founder of the modern political movement of Zionism, deep within the Jewish religion there is always a yearning to return to the promised land, Zion, which was promised to the chosen people in the Torah and I guess the Bible too.

[Phil Labonte]

So that's the religious roots. But yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Theodore Herzog wasn't coming from the Nile to the Euphrates. Ian, I want all of it.

[Eric July]

I got did it. Was it like the. The pendulum swaying back so hard because it's for so long the Jews were persecuted that it got to a point where they're like we're gonna persecute?

[Michael Knowles]

No, no. Who are they persecuting?

[Eric July]

I don't know. The Gentiles? I'm trying to.

[Michael Knowles]

Are they. Are the Jews persecuted?

[Eric July]

I'm not saying they are. It's more of a. If there was an answer.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, wait. Do you think the Jews are genociding Palace? Is there a palace genocide happening in Palestine?

[Eric July]

I don't think the Israeli government is trying to conquer that territory.

[Michael Knowles]

Is there a genocide going on in Palestine?

[Eric July]

It feels like it.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, wait. Is there a Genocide going on in Ukraine.

[Ian Crossland]

Bro, stop.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Eric July]

Because Ukrainians aren't held in like a city, a pretty prison state like the Gazans are.

[Michael Knowles]

Have you heard about like the Bucha massacre and the other targeting of civilians where there's indiscriminate artillery shelling of Ukrainian civilians in many cases. Okay, well, you have to. You might want to ask yourself why that is that you think what's going on in Gaza is a genocide when more people have been killed? I don't know if it's a genocide.

[Eric July]

Because I don't know that they're targeting Palestinians, but I think they're targeting anyone in the territory.

[Phil Labonte]

Why do you think they want the turret? They pulled out in 2000, but they pulled out in 2005, withdrew every Hamas. What?

[Eric July]

They created Hamas to disrupt two parties.

[Phil Labonte]

Hamas was founded in the 80s as a resistance, as a terrorist organization that was sworn to Israel's destruction.

[Eric July]

I guess I'll defer to Dave Smith. They propagated Hamas to disrupt the one party state.

[Phil Labonte]

So there were political incentives to prop up Hamas in the sense that Hamas was democratically elected in Gaza. And so yes, there were some political players in Israel that saw them who did not believe in a two state solution, but they didn't believe in it. Because the fundamental issue is that there hasn't, There have never been a desire on the Palestinian side to accept Israel.

[Michael Knowles]

If I could explain this. They. The Palestinian Authority is who's in charge of the west bank right now and they beef with Hamas and they've had a civil war where they've killed each other. The plo.

[Phil Labonte]

No, the PLO is no longer.

[Michael Knowles]

The Palestinian Authority is Mahmoud Abbas and he's considered more moderate, although I'd consider him very extreme and not a serious partner. Peace. But the Israeli government would prefer infighting between these different Palestinian factions in Gaza and the West Bank. So they'd prefer that Hamas not be simultaneously controlling Gaza and the west bank and same with vice versa with the Palestinian Authority. So it was within Israel's interest to have the Palestinian governments in the west bank and Gaza be different and disagree.

[Eric July]

With each other because they were their enemies.

[Michael Knowles]

They're enemies with each other. They kill each other.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, when that was, when Hamas was elected in Gaza, they killed all the Fatah opposition. They murdered all of them. And when we talk about territorial expansion, Israel is the size of New Jersey in a part. You can't even find it on the map or fit the text of Israel into the. Into the territory it's surrounded by Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, tons of Arab and Muslim majority countries. And Jordan is 60% Palestinian, effectively. And it used to control the west bank. And since 48, there's been continual attempts to destroy Israel, not to create Palestine.

[Michael Knowles]

Ian, can I ask, when are we taking you on the trip? Huh?

[Eric July]

I'd love to go to Israel, dude. When do you want to go? I would love to go to. Is it Syria?

[Michael Knowles]

It'll be safe.

[Phil Labonte]

So I know it's portrayed in this way of this narrative of Israel as this territorial person, but it's only been giving up territory since it's. Since its existence in 48 and in response to continuing attacks of annihilation of the Jewish state.

[Eric July]

The way it was created concerns me that it was a mandate, just basically. The British took it after World War I. They betrayed the Arabs and they're like, all right, we're going to keep it.

[Michael Knowles]

Do you have any problems with the way America was founded and how we manifested destiny to the Pacific?

[Eric July]

It was just manifest colonizing.

[Phil Labonte]

Manifest, savage.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you say that again.

[Eric July]

Colonizing, conquest and savage murder. That's how we've made.

[Michael Knowles]

We've turned colonization into a. Disgust, into a bad word. The best thing that America did was manifest destiny and colonize the western part of the country. In my belief, most of the people, most of the native Americans that were killed weren't killed brutally by these colonizers. They were actually killed by each other and by disease. So we just choose what to focus on here. And when we turned colonization into a dirty word, if the colonization didn't happen, we wouldn't be the best country, the most modern and best country to have ever existed, and the natives would still be genociding one another.

[Eric July]

You might be right. You might be right, but we wouldn't have.

[Michael Knowles]

The issue here is the double standard when you're talking about, oh, they're colonizers there and they're colonizing land. And now, now Israel's occupied, baby. You're unoccupied land right now.

[Eric July]

The question is, how are you? You're colonizing because we'll eventually colonize Mars, but it's unoccupied. So colonizing territories.

[Michael Knowles]

This idea that we colonized unoccupied America, there's people living.

[Phil Labonte]

It was not a sovereign state of Palestine before it was under the Ottoman Empire. There was a piece of geograph geography called Palestine that was originally called Judea. The name Palestine was a Roman name of Roman colonization imposed to expel Jewish identity from the land. But it was the Nation of Israel, the Kingdom of Israel.

[Michael Knowles]

I don't want to deny the dispossession of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, by the way. I do not want to deny there are no, there was dispossession of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from the land that is now Israel. But the thing that I think is overlooked most often is the dispossession of Jews in Arab lands which numbers over 500,000 that nobody seems to care about. Nobody's telling me, hey Allah, you get a right of return to Iraq where your aunts and uncles and everybody was kicked out of. Nobody gives a shit about that. We care about the fake right of return for the Palestinians instead. So I guess that's the difference.

[Phil Labonte]

But the important point is this narrative of mass displacement. Why did it happen? Way back in the 1880s, Jews even from Europe were purchasing land in Israel from absentee landlords living in surrounding areas. And there was native Arab populations too. But under the Ottoman Empire there were movements to purchase land, settle the land, build it up. Israel built itself. And then the mass displacement came when the surrounding Arab countries decided, you know what, we're not going to accept a partition plan to out of the fall of the Ottoman Empire. We are going to attack with the goal of destroying the Jewish state. But they're fledgling Jewish state that just started. But they continually lost those wars which led to the mass displacement of the Palestinians and created the refugee problem.

[Ian Crossland]

All that aside, the Muslim religion is instructed to kill the Jews.

[Phil Labonte]

This is a religious war. It's not a geographic dispute.

[Ian Crossland]

The Jews don't have a religious instruction to kill Muslims, nor do Christians. But Muslims literally have a religious instruction to kill Jews.

[Eric July]

Where does that come from?

[Tim Pool]

Hadith.

[Eric July]

Like why did they put that in the hadith?

[Ian Crossland]

Because.

[Phil Labonte]

Because they wanted to Muhammad our people. Because when Muhammad, when you go to Palestinian protests today, you will not hear two states side by side. We want a state of our own. You hear that's a reference to the battle of Khaybar in which they, Muhammad encountered the Jews and he gave them a choice, submit to Islam or die. And a lot of Jews converted and that's, that's how. And they believe, they believe with a religious conviction that any land that was once Muslim land must be Muslim and forever. They say it about Spain too. So they say it about Spain.

[Ian Crossland]

Mohammed, Mohammed encounters the Jews and he says, you now have to submit to me. They said, fuck you. He says, then we're going to kill.

[Phil Labonte]

You all or you pay the jizya tax as a second class today.

[Ian Crossland]

So the simple version is what was once Israel becomes conquered, and that's Arab colonization, Right? And then Muhammad then says, I better write this down, that we gotta go kill all these people because they defied them, they resisted. And then it literally says something like, the end will not come until all the Jews are dead. And the rocks and the trees say, oh, follower of Allah, come to me because there's a Jew hiding behind me.

[Eric July]

And Muhammad is a great unifier because he did bring together a lot of disparate tribes that were warring, but the Jews resisted.

[Tim Pool]

It's a great pedophile, but it even goes further back than just than Islam because the feud between Arabs and Jews goes all the way back to 3,000 years ago with Ishmael and Isaac.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, Ishmael and Isaac, sons of Jacob.

[Michael Knowles]

Wait, we're taking you on the trip? Ian, you're going to come with us.

[Phil Labonte]

Ishmael descends the Arab, the Muslims believe they descend. That's their forefather. We all are children of Abraham. The Abraham accords Arabs.

[Eric July]

And that's Abraham's where it's at, dude.

[Phil Labonte]

Abraham is where motherfucker was tight.

[Ian Crossland]

Article 7, Hamas charter, which is also, I believe it's the final verse of the Hadith. The day of judgment will not come until the Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out, oh, Muslim, there's a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him.

[Phil Labonte]

Can't have peace with that.

[Michael Knowles]

That's kind of a deal breaker, man.

[Eric July]

It seems like it was like an enemy.

[Michael Knowles]

I need to get strapped. I'm here. I'm just going to stay in West Virginia. I need to get armed.

[Eric July]

When they wrote up the hot.

[Michael Knowles]

We're starting our Jewish statement.

[Phil Labonte]

Quran is unchangeable.

[Eric July]

It was like they wrote it when there was an enemy tribe that they were at war with, which was the tribe of Judah at the time. But now it's like an entire 100 million people. No, Come on.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, so very, very simple. And you guys could probably do the more in depth very simple Islam. Arabs conquered Israel. Later on when there's not a whole lot going on there, Jews come back and if you look at the history of Germany, many wealthy Jews in Europe cut a deal with Hitler that he wouldn't murder them all if they gave all their possessions to him. He would let them go with nothing to the land that, you know, that was once Israel. When they start establishing the land of Israel again to return the surrounding Arab nations were like, weren't we supposed to kill these motherfuckers. Israel was backing from, from the Grand.

[Phil Labonte]

Mufti, met with Hitler to solve the Jewish problem.

[Ian Crossland]

Israel, Israel gets backing from the west and with aid and defense are able to stop the destruction from the surrounding Arab nations. And this leads to endless periods of war where you've got these people claiming that, oh, these Palestinians have been taken, most of these Palestinians, the population has rapidly exploded in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Now I'm not going to sit here and defend west bank expansion, whatever blah.

[Phil Labonte]

Blah, blah, marginal issue if you ask me. Not the fundamentalist.

[Ian Crossland]

The point is there were a bunch of Jews, for a variety of reasons, were settling in the area. Arabs declared war and tried to kill them all. We supported Jews because of the. A lot of what the problem with World War II was that there were stateless people. And if you declare war on someone and lose, this is the words of Ulysses S. Grant, the people have a right to revolt against their leaders and when they lose, they will be subjugated. So these surrounding Arab nations say, we're gonna fucking kill you. And then they're like, let's go, baby. The west says we're on the side of the State of Israel. Israel then repels, controls, even took captured the Sinai Peninsula. So there's a lot of issues surrounding it. The really simple version is it's a long ongoing war that wasn't started by Israel. It goes back to the ancient history when Muslims conquered the land and forced people to convert under penalty of death.

[Phil Labonte]

And in 48, by the way, a lot of Muslims living there, Arabs were displaced. When the Arabs surrounding Arab countries attacked, the ones who stayed became Israeli citizens. Till this day. Israel's got 2 million Arab citizens.

[Eric July]

I think there's two issues with full civil rights. One is that the Quran or wherever this this is, needs to be reformed. In the sense. Let me finish these thoughts really quick. In the sense that Jews are not bad people. There might have been a tribe that they were at war with at the time. Phil, let me finish, please. That there might have been a tribe at the time that they were at war with. That was written into the doctrine that we need to stop this tribe. It's a thousand 1500 years later. We can let that go and focus on humans. Secondly, the second problem that's. Let me finish this. The second problem, that it's correlated is that the establishment of the country of Israel was authoritarian, of course, and it was an imposition, but it has nothing.

[Ian Crossland]

To do with Jews.

[Eric July]

Judaism is a religion. It's a bloodline. This formation of a country that is colonizing is a different story altogether.

[Phil Labonte]

The last sovereign state that existed on that geography was the Kingdom of Israel under King David. And that wasn't an established homeland for the Jewish people. It's not like it was made up in 48. The reason that there was a Balfour Declaration and there were calls for establishment of a Jewish state in their ancestral homeland was because of if you dig into the ground of Israel, you find Jewish archeology, you find old coins.

[Ian Crossland]

And as the leftists have been preaching for indigenous rights, all of a sudden they've been arguing the people of Palestine are the indigenous Jews. And we had a guy on the show and I said, but what does that mean? Wasn't this the Kingdom of Israel? And he goes, yes, but they were forced to convert under penalty of death, and now the descendants are Muslims. And I was like, so what you're saying is the people who decided not to die to not to convert and fled want to come back to their ancestral homeland, but you're denying them because the conquered peoples are there too. Sounds like there's a dispute that's not so simple as to say that one. There's one claim to this land.

[Eric July]

It doesn't matter who was there first.

[Ian Crossland]

But here's the most important.

[Eric July]

Kings were there before everyone.

[Ian Crossland]

You are not going to go to a religion of 1.8 billion people and say we can let bygones be bygones. Just ignore the hadith and stop trying to kill Jews.

[Eric July]

Put it so simply. But things change.

[Tim Pool]

When I say that you can't change it. To even propose that gets your head cut off. Islam is a religion of the sword. Christianity can have a reformation because of the way that Jesus was right. Jesus was not a warlord. Muhammad was a warlord. Muhammad himself cut heads off. Muhammad was the most perfect man according to Islam. So if you propose that, you are actually saying heresy and you die for.

[Eric July]

Don'T shake your head. Muhammad was legit for his time, dude. No, he was unified, dude.

[Tim Pool]

He was a war lord.

[Eric July]

He was born in a tribe of war. Of war. They were persecuted. The Bedouin were eradicated.

[Tim Pool]

According to Islam, if you propose changes to the word of God because it's the perfect word of God, if you propose changes, that is apostasy.

[Eric July]

Do you just live in fear, Phil? I don't understand what are you saying?

[Phil Labonte]

If in those.

[Tim Pool]

What don't you.

[Eric July]

What part?

[Tim Pool]

Hey, what don't you understand about if you try to change this? The reason that I'm saying this, you said oh, Christianity had a reformation. The reason Christianity could have a reformation is because Jesus Christ was not a warlord. It was not a war religion.

[Eric July]

It wasn't chopping your head off for proposing. Another type of Christianity in 1200 AD.

[Ian Crossland]

Is, I have to go to bed because I got to be up at 7. So if Serge is willing, if you guys want to keep talking. I don't. I don't want to stop it for a culture war.

[Michael Knowles]

We're saving it for when we take you to Israel, baby. We're dragging you there.

[Eric July]

I'm ready.

[Ian Crossland]

Kicking and screaming. Let me tell you, I've been. I've been to Israel.

[Michael Knowles]

Get that picture at the wall.

[Ian Crossland]

I went to Tel Aviv, and it is a modern liberal democracy. I'm not saying literal liberal democracy. I'm saying it is a structure of a little democracy where you can walk around, you know, being beaten. I can go and order and eat food. And I've been to Egypt and I've been to Morocco, and those were not as fun.

[Phil Labonte]

And I'm saying they were criticized. Netanyahu.

[Tim Pool]

I want to go.

[Phil Labonte]

You want? It's all they do over there.

[Eric July]

All back. Society Ball back. Jimmy Corsetti just went there. Ancient civilization.

[Ian Crossland]

It's cool stuff.

[Eric July]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

Anyway, guys, I apologize to everybody for the discord not working for us. We'll have our crew come in and see if we can get it figured out, maybe clear the cache or try a web browser so this doesn't happen again in. So, apologies, guys, but I appreciate you guys waiting, and we'll make it up to you.

[Eric July]

Let's set up a culture war with.

[Ian Crossland]

I mean, a lot has been fun. Religion stuff's always back.

[Eric July]

Dude, that was fantastic.

[Ian Crossland]

All right, everybody, time to go to bed. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you all tomorrow morning.

[Michael Knowles]

All right.