Biden DECREES New 28th Amendment WITH NO AUTHORITY & Dems CHEER w/Myron Gaines

Summary

Timcast IRL Episode Summary Title: Biden DECREES New 28th Amendment WITH NO AUTHORITY & Dems CHEER w/Myron Gaines
Host: Tim Pool
Release Date: January 18, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Timcast IRL, host Tim Pool engages in a heated and uncensored discussion with political commentators Andrew Wilson, Luke Beasley, Josiah, and Myron Gaines. The primary focus revolves around the impending inauguration of Donald Trump as President and a critical debate on whether Trump embodies fascistic tendencies. The conversation spans a wide array of topics, including election integrity, media censorship, U.S. foreign policy in Ukraine and Israel, and cultural issues such as marriage equality and sex education.

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1. Is Donald Trump a Fascist?

Tim Pool opens the debate by posing the provocative question: "Is Trump a fascist?" This sets the stage for a deep dive into Trump's actions and their implications for American democracy.

• Andrew Wilson emphasizes the importance of semantics in the debate, asserting, “semantics are super important to a debate for a reason” ([00:20]). He challenges the labeling of Trump as a fascist without substantive evidence.

• Luke Beasley counters by focusing on actions rather than labels: “I just don't care about the label... whether or not you can defend the facts of what he did” ([02:14]).

• Josiah introduces specific behaviors to assess Trump's authoritarianism, such as attempts to overturn the 2020 election and threats against the media: “Did he plot to overturn the 2020 election? Did he resist the peaceful transfer of power?” ([03:45]).

• Tim Pool interjects with historical context from the 1960 Nixon-Kennedy election, questioning the consistency of labeling Democrats similarly: “That would make Trump a fascist. That would also make Obama or Biden or Kamala much the same” ([03:55]).

The segment highlights the tension between defining political figures by labels versus evaluating specific actions that may threaten democratic principles.

Notable Quote:

Andrew Wilson: “semantics are super important to a debate for a reason.” ([00:20])

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2. Election Integrity and Media Censorship

The discussion shifts to allegations of election interference and media suppression, with a focus on both Democratic and Republican actions.

• Luke Beasley scrutinizes Trump's efforts to replace certified electors with his own slate: “getting electors that weren't the ones lawfully certified by the states” ([05:40]).

• Andrew Wilson argues that without substantial legal backing, such actions are baseless: “the circuit court decided that a new certificate was necessary after the fact” ([07:00]).

• Myron Gaines and Josiah list various alleged methods of election manipulation, including ballot harvesting and foreign interference, asserting the 2020 election was "stolen" ([19:35]).

• The conversation deepens with discussions on the pressure exerted on social media platforms: “Mark Zuckerberg said that the feds went to him and said, 'There will be information on Hunter Biden. This will be Russian disinformation’” ([26:01]).

Notable Quote:

Josiah: “If you disagree with what the federal government under Donald Trump... that's ridiculous.” ([22:46])

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3. U.S. Foreign Policy: Ukraine and Israel

A significant portion of the episode delves into U.S. involvement in international conflicts, specifically in Ukraine and Israel.

• Tim Pool raises concerns about U.S. aid to Ukraine, questioning its strategic benefits and ethical implications: “What is the strategic, economic or otherwise benefit of our involvement in Ukraine?” ([78:22]).

• Andrew Wilson and Myron Gaines strongly oppose continued aid, citing the potential for unnecessary loss of American lives and questioning the legitimacy of Ukraine's government: “We need to stop sending aid to Ukraine and end this fight now” ([77:40]).

• Josiah acknowledges the complexity, stating support should align with Ukrainian public sentiment: “We can agree that we're better off than a lot of other countries...” ([59:02]).

• The discussion extends to support for Israel, with Andrew Wilson advocating for the U.S. to disengage: “We should back away from that conflict as fast as possible” ([90:56]).

• Luke Beasley defends aid to Israel as necessary for geopolitical stability, while Myron Gaines accuses lobbyists of unduly influencing U.S. foreign policy, arguing that support for Israel brings more problems than benefits: “There are eyes and ears in the Middle East...” ([90:25]).

Notable Quote:

Myron Gaines: “We are fighting the conflict... People don't want the war.” ([82:45])

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4. Cultural Issues: Marriage Equality and Sex Education

The panel transitions to cultural debates, focusing on the potential overturning of the Obergefell v. Hodges decision and the content of sex education in schools.

• Tim Pool speculates on the Supreme Court possibly overturning marriage equality and gender identity protections: “I think it's probable that we do have a case... overturn gay marriage” ([95:43]).

• Andrew Wilson argues for the separation of marriage from state recognition, emphasizing religious perspectives and criticizing the current secular approach: “Marriage is only as useful as it is recognized... they don't consider it as being valid” ([100:04]).

• Luke Beasley advocates for comprehensive sex education, including discussions on various sexual orientations and practices to ensure youth safety: “We need to be teaching about the risks of STDs across all different people” ([116:57]).

• Myron Gaines and Josiah express discomfort with current sex ed practices, advocating for parental control over their children's education: “All of it should be done through the parents” ([120:17]).

Notable Quote:

Andrew Wilson: “Marriage is only as useful as it is recognized... they don't consider it as being valid.” ([100:04])

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5. Parental Rights in Medical Decisions

The episode concludes with a debate on whether parents should have the final say in their children's medical decisions, particularly concerning gender transition.

• Tim Pool highlights inconsistencies in state interventions based on political leanings: “In blue states... the state intervenes and says, you do not have the right to decide for your child” ([125:07]).

• Andrew Wilson supports parental rights but acknowledges exceptions where state intervention is necessary to protect children's well-being: “But I do have a caveat... So within the confines of reason...” ([121:55]).

• Myron Gaines firmly believes that parental control should prevail unless it involves neglect or abuse: “All of it should be done through the parents. The parents decide...” ([120:17]).

Notable Quote:

Andrew Wilson: “There's like religious nut cases who exist who will... they don't allow them to have antibiotics. I support some sort of intervention...” ([121:55])

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Conclusion

The episode encapsulates intense debates on the state of American politics, the role of government in personal and international affairs, and the cultural battles shaping the nation's future. Tim Pool successfully facilitates a platform where divergent viewpoints clash, offering listeners a comprehensive look into the arguments surrounding Trump’s presidency, election integrity, U.S. foreign policy, and deeply rooted cultural issues.

Speaker Attribution:

• Tim Pool: Host, moderating the discussion.
• Andrew Wilson: Political analyst and satirist.
• Luke Beasley: Liberal political commentator.
• Josiah: Liberal commentator with Pondering Politics.
• Myron Gaines: Host of Fresh Fit Podcast.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Andrew Wilson: “semantics are super important to a debate for a reason.” ([00:20])
• Josiah: “If you disagree with what the federal government under Donald Trump... that's ridiculous.” ([22:46])
• Myron Gaines: “We are fighting the conflict... People don't want the war.” ([82:45])
• Andrew Wilson: “Marriage is only as useful as it is recognized... they don't consider it as being valid.” ([100:04])
• Andrew Wilson: “There's like religious nut cases who exist who will... they don't allow them to have antibiotics. I support some sort of intervention...” ([121:55])

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Guest Information:

• Andrew Wilson: Host of The Crucible, political analyst, satirist, and debater. [YouTube: The Crucible]
• Luke Beasley: Liberal political commentator. [YouTube: Luke Beasley]
• Josiah: Commissioner of Pondering Politics. [Website: Pondering Politics]
• Myron Gaines: Host of Fresh Fit Podcast and Myron Gaines X. [YouTube: Fresh Fit Podcast]

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This summary is based on a transcript up to the 2-hour and 7-minute mark of the episode and aims to encapsulate the core discussions and viewpoints presented.

Transcript

[Tim Pool]

Everybody, these are violent criminals, so they're.

[Andrew Wilson]

Not gonna go down easy. ABC Tuesdays Cops.

[Luke Beasley]

Let's get this done.

[Andrew Wilson]

The rookie is back.

[Myron Gaines]

We have two new rookies starting today.

[Tim Pool]

Howdy. Being a cop is stressful.

[Andrew Wilson]

24, 7.

[Myron Gaines]

Every year on the job is different.

[Tim Pool]

And training day, we have a serial killer at large. Never ends.

[Myron Gaines]

We need an ambulance.

[Luke Beasley]

The rookie.

[Andrew Wilson]

All new Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[Tim Pool]

We are a couple days away from Donald Trump entering the office as the President. The inauguration will be on Monday. So let's take this opportunity to debate Joe Biden's legacy, Donald Trump's legacy. And we have an eclectic bunch with us who are going to give their ideas on whether or not, I don't know, Trump's a fascist or women should even be voting in the first place. So you can tell it's going to get wild in this room. Why don't we start with you, Myron.

[Myron Gaines]

One half of the Fresh Fit podcast. Happy to be here. I also run my own political talk show. Myron Gaines X Monday through Friday, 5pm Fresher fit after that. And yeah, let's get into it. Happy to be here, man.

[Luke Beasley]

Luke Beasley, liberal political commentator. You can find me on YouTube at Luke Beasley pumped. Good to be back, Tim. Myron and Andrew, Nice to meet you all.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, my name is Andrew Wilson. I'm the host of the Crucible. It's a popular Entertainment channel on YouTube. Political analyst, political satirist and bloodsport debater. Happy to be here. Thanks, Tim.

[Josiah]

Yeah. Josiah with Pondering Politics. Liberal commentator. Looking forward to this conversation. Cuz this is like some of the biggest MAGA influencers I've ever encountered and I'm looking forward to understanding a bit more.

[Tim Pool]

Well, let's get started with the simple question, is Trump a fascist? I know it sounds a bit generic, but this is the big talking point that kind of persisted for the past 10 years. Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. He's authoritarian, he's far right, he's fascistic, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't know who wants to start off first, but is Luke, is he a fashion.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, you know, we can debate that particular label. I've noticed when I've watched past debates among MAGA folks, the benefit, or at least what they seem to thrive off of, is getting real into the weeds on a particular semantic debate. That's less relevant to me than going through the specifics of why I might call him that. But not, let's not get so focused on the label. But Instead, whether or not we find moral, whether or not we.

[Andrew Wilson]

Now, let's get focused on the label. So listen, here's why you can't defend. Well, first off my point though, you can't do.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm going to finish this. You can't defend what he does. So then you try to distract from that with just really abstract from your lies. Discussions from your lies.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, no, no. So first of all, hang on, Luke, semantics are super important to a debate for a reason. It's so that we have clarity in what we're actually talking about. So when you go, Trump's a fascist. Yeah. It's very important that you clarify exactly what that means. Why it means that. What the historic standard is that you're providing against.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm saying that debate is an interesting one. I've had it a bunch of times less relevant than whether or not you can defend the DID factually, not the labels, the facts of what he did.

[Andrew Wilson]

Why are you calling him a fascist then, Luke, if you're not prepared?

[Luke Beasley]

Tim brought that up. I'm interested in.

[Tim Pool]

Well, it's.

[Andrew Wilson]

So you call him that, Luke. Why do you call him that unless you can defend it?

[Tim Pool]

Called in the media a fascist over and over and over again for 10 years and he calls him.

[Luke Beasley]

That question is most importantly. Then we can get to that.

[Andrew Wilson]

Uhhuh.

[Luke Beasley]

Can you defend the things that we point to as a threat to democracy as anti Democratic? Whatever label you use, I just don't care about.

[Andrew Wilson]

Can you defend that he's a fascist or not, Luke, I absolutely have had.

[Luke Beasley]

That discussion a bunch of times.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's not what I asked you. Can you repeat my question? I asked you.

[Josiah]

We would point out things that we might describe as authoritarian or fascistic, even if you don't agree with a particular label. And that's what he's saying we want to talk about. So, for example, did he plot to overturn the 2020 election? Did he resist the peaceful transfer of power? Does he command a cult of personality? These are factual questions.

[Luke Beasley]

Does he threaten the media?

[Tim Pool]

So this is not. I'm not going to make a what about. As I'm going to say. Okay, let's start from that presumption. That would make Trump a fascist. That would also make Obama or Biden or Kamala much the same.

[Luke Beasley]

Which we can sell. Yes. Which is false.

[Tim Pool]

What you just described as Donald Trump would apply to them in fraudulent states.

[Josiah]

Yeah. When. When have they ever, like, resisted the peaceful transfer of power, plotted to overturn an election?

[Tim Pool]

I believe this was the first election in 52 years, the Democratic Party has not challenged the election.

[Luke Beasley]

You're talking about the thing that is within congressional rules, which is you can object. Object to the count. That's different than assembling from different states, people who aren't the lawful electors, and then trying to get them counted by your vice president as the real one.

[Josiah]

Right.

[Luke Beasley]

Completely different.

[Tim Pool]

But that is also a procedure.

[Luke Beasley]

One is a. Nope.

[Josiah]

No.

[Luke Beasley]

You can't get random people to sign fake forms saying they're not fake forms. They were.

[Tim Pool]

They're. They're not fake forms.

[Luke Beasley]

You know why?

[Josiah]

The people were probably forms. Like we. Obviously, it's not an invisible page what.

[Tim Pool]

A fake form is.

[Josiah]

We don't mean by an invisible piece of paper. It was a fraudulent.

[Andrew Wilson]

Wait, that's semantics, Tim. Like I said, very important to debates.

[Luke Beasley]

Because you can't process.

[Josiah]

We don't want to spend 45 minutes on what's a fake form.

[Tim Pool]

So the issue here is we're talking about a play upon precedent with what Donald Trump did. And the basis for what Donald Trump did and his lawyers in 2020, 2021, was built upon what happened in the election between Nixon and Kennedy. When Hawaii sent a non certified slate. Would you call that fake as well?

[Luke Beasley]

No. In that case, this was before the certification had happened. The state sent two slates.

[Tim Pool]

Incorrect.

[Luke Beasley]

These cases.

[Tim Pool]

Incorrect.

[Luke Beasley]

There were certifications by each state and then verified by the governor, then sent to the. To Washington. And those were the ones Trump wanted to get counted. Well, it did not represent the lawful outcome of the elections in those states y'all agree with.

[Andrew Wilson]

Agree with you about what?

[Luke Beasley]

That's what Trump was trying to do. Getting electors that weren't the ones lawfully certified by the states to get counted.

[Andrew Wilson]

No.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, cool. Then.

[Josiah]

Wait, what was he doing?

[Andrew Wilson]

So we'll pull this up. Hang on. Okay, one step at a time.

[Tim Pool]

So in Hawaii, it just disappeared on me. Why does it do that? And I'm using Wikipedia, which I'm not a big fan of, because it is oversimplified and often wrong. But it says that Hawaii official results showed Nixon winning by a small margin. Hawaii's three electoral votes were cast for Nixon. Acting Governor James Kelio has certified the Republican electors and they cast Hawaii's three electors for Nixon. However, clear discrepancies existed. Blah, blah, blah. The court challenge was still ongoing at the time of the electoral count's safe harbor deadline, but Democratic electors still convened on the constitutionally mandated date of December 19 and cast their votes for Kennedy. Would you consider those to be illegitimate votes because it had Already been certified for the Republican.

[Andrew Wilson]

And then.

[Josiah]

Can we, can we. Reading continue.

[Tim Pool]

The recount, completed before Christmas, resulted in Kennedy being declared the winner by 115 votes. On December 30, the circuit court ruled that Hawaii's three electoral votes should go to Kennedy. It was decided that a new certificate was necessary with only 2 days remaining before Congress convened to count and certify the Electoral College votes. A letter to Congress saying a certificate was on the way was rushed out by registered airmail. Both Democratic Republican electoral votes from Hawaii were presented for counting on January 6th. And Vice President Nixon, who presided over the certification, graciously said, without the intent of establishing a precedent, and requested unanimous consent that Democratic votes for Kennedy be counted.

[Josiah]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

So the clarification here, let's make sure it's very clear.

[Josiah]

Sure.

[Tim Pool]

The Democratic votes were never certified. They were intending to certify, but because the deadline was approaching, they submitted false documents as you described it, before certification was done.

[Josiah]

No, because the Circuit Court ruled that the electoral vote should go to Kennedy.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, hold on. I got to stop you. The Circuit Court has nothing to do with the, with the convening of Democrats to file false papers. Did the Democrats convene without a court order and sign documents that were not real?

[Luke Beasley]

Was the president trying to get the ones.

[Tim Pool]

Let's answer the question.

[Luke Beasley]

This is the question, because I'm talking about Donald Trump's actions, right?

[Tim Pool]

So we're starting with precedent.

[Luke Beasley]

We're talking about Donald Trump's actions.

[Tim Pool]

I asked you a question.

[Luke Beasley]

Did the sitting president at the time try to get, after the court cases had been resolved, try to get the Democratic. We have to start from the electors counted. They didn't.

[Tim Pool]

Let's, let's start here. Did the Democrats, none of y'all are.

[Luke Beasley]

Even engaging with that fact.

[Tim Pool]

Are you going to answer the question.

[Luke Beasley]

Or you're going to go and spin and spin and spin because you can't engage with the fact that, you know, you do pattering. You know, you're pattering. That Trump was trying to get.

[Tim Pool]

I'm going to. I'm going to.

[Luke Beasley]

What was Trump trying to get Pence to do?

[Tim Pool]

You are pattering.

[Luke Beasley]

What was Trump trying to get.

[Tim Pool]

You are pattering. When can we stop and go back to the debate?

[Luke Beasley]

Keep reading that.

[Josiah]

Sure.

[Luke Beasley]

This is the debate.

[Tim Pool]

What are we.

[Luke Beasley]

President of the United States. You're going to keep.

[Tim Pool]

You're just pattering. All right, I'm going to say it again. We are reading a specific passage on what Hawaii did, and we are at a specific point in the Logical question. Hawaii Democrats were not certified. They filled out paperwork. Pause. Courts had not approved anything at that point. Were those documents yes or no? Real or fake?

[Luke Beasley]

At that point in time, the recount hadn't even concluded. Yes, sir.

[Josiah]

No.

[Luke Beasley]

Or the documents electors met Georgia had already counted. I'm explaining to you, I am not asking you about.

[Tim Pool]

Correct.

[Luke Beasley]

If those forms had then been asserted as the lawful ones during the counting process, that would be fraudulent. Yes, but they weren't.

[Tim Pool]

So they submitted documents that were unapproved, not certified federal government.

[Luke Beasley]

Which ones ended up being the ones that federal government was going to certify.

[Tim Pool]

Why is this so hard?

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, my gosh.

[Josiah]

Why is no. The reason that it seems simply. You're doing it out with y'all.

[Tim Pool]

See, this is. This is the thing. You guys are trying to present some sophistry as to your argument.

[Luke Beasley]

No, you can't.

[Andrew Wilson]

Hold on.

[Luke Beasley]

Let me know what Trump did. That's exactly what you're doing. You can't engage with what Trump did.

[Tim Pool]

I'll make my point. Stop battering.

[Luke Beasley]

And then will you let us make our points?

[Tim Pool]

So. Absolutely, though the problem is I'm asking about Hawaii and you keep changing the subject to Trump. So let's go through Hawaii. The Democrats had no right, by your logic, to fill out this paperwork and submit it to the federal government as the certified slate of electors. Only after the fact did the court make a decision. Now, let's go to 2020. If there is pending court decisions and there were Republicans doing the same thing. Democrats.

[Josiah]

No, no, no, you're wrong. The circuit court decided that a new certificate was necessary after the fact. Before Congress convened.

[Tim Pool]

Yes, but after talking about it, already submitted the documents. That's why I'm asking you. When you said they were false documents, I didn't say anything else. What makes them false? It's the same as Hawaii. If you want to make the argument that Democrats did the same thing in 1960, I will agree with you.

[Josiah]

But we're not making that argument because that's not what they did.

[Luke Beasley]

This is the point. In 1960, while there was still a recount going on and ongoing court cases, and it was so narrow, they really didn't know which way it was going to go. Then they didn't even submit those or try to get them counted. The sitting president at the time, until a court, until it was determined Trump submitted them, he got all seven states after this whole process had been concluded. It wasn't close enough for the recount to flip it. The recounts had concluded and he was Trying to get. Not. Let's have two standing by because we don't know how this recount is going to go, but from seven states that we know the outcome of. But I'm making false claims of fraud on them. I'm going to get Pence to keep me as president by accepting fake electors. Tim, for a second. Because we're supposed to be debating them. I think. Could they also try to defend this stance?

[Josiah]

Yeah, because you're an apples and oranges thing as far as I'm concerned. Let's let. Thought you mean I was silly. Yeah. Like if a court. If a court decided in one of the five or seven states that Trump tried to peddle the false elector scheme, that if a court contested the Democratic slate of electors, then I think you would have an apples to apples comparison. But that's not what happened in none of the seven states and it wasn't.

[Luke Beasley]

Close enough to where they didn't know which way it was going to go.

[Myron Gaines]

Right.

[Josiah]

There was no actual ambiguity.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. Andrew? Anything? Myron?

[Myron Gaines]

Well, what's the argument here? Is it fascism or. Because you guys went into a whole other.

[Luke Beasley]

One of the key.

[Myron Gaines]

You guys went. I don't know if you guys. It started with fascism, but let me say a Kennedy election in 1960.

[Luke Beasley]

I'll explain, I'll explain. One of the key tenets of. Again I know you'll get really triggered so I'm trying to stay away from that particular term. But we can say fascism, authoritarianism is based. I don't know what's anti democracy.

[Myron Gaines]

It's pretty fucking based. I don't know what the issue is.

[Luke Beasley]

That legitimate or joke. Because we can go into that. That'd be interesting.

[Myron Gaines]

I mean we can go now.

[Andrew Wilson]

Something you want to talk about Fascism?

[Luke Beasley]

One of the key. Yeah, one of the key tenets is rejecting democratic principles and the democratic process.

[Andrew Wilson]

According to who?

[Luke Beasley]

According to every single fascism scholar ever. And the definition.

[Josiah]

Okay, you mean according or do you mean according to who? Like what determines the democratic processes?

[Andrew Wilson]

No, I'm asking according to who.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, sure, read it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, go ahead. So far right. Authoritative. No, no, no, no. Pull up Giovanna Gentile. This would be the person that you guys would like to use, you see as an authority?

[Josiah]

Yeah, they're terrified. Gentile, I thought gentile. When did we cite him?

[Andrew Wilson]

I'm sorry, is reading a Wikipedia article proof of your position?

[Luke Beasley]

No. Getting into a hyper specific definitional discussion. I don't care what you call it. Bad, let's say bad. Bad is what I think Trump did and that's what I'm trying to get you to see, not the definition. Cuz I know you feel way more comfortable spinning around and reading about whoever. Instead we can just talk about, regardless of definition. Is it good or bad to reject Democratic results? Is it good or bad to threaten the media based on my principles, which value.

[Andrew Wilson]

What do you mean threaten the media?

[Josiah]

So Trump has repeatedly called for like investigations into reporters and to media outlets. He believes that the business licenses of like ABC and cbs, msn, dc, he says should be pulled. I mean, you don't see these sorts of threats from the Democratic Party.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, so let's get into them and he may have Trump pulled anybody's license ever as president. Has he actually sent any government officials to do any investigations at any major.

[Luke Beasley]

So you agree though? Stop him saying stop, stop.

[Andrew Wilson]

Bro, I just let you go through your whole stupid spiel.

[Luke Beasley]

You came out.

[Andrew Wilson]

Has Trump actually done that?

[Josiah]

Are threats not bad?

[Andrew Wilson]

First of all, hyperbole isn't a threat. That's one Trump. Hang on the issue, taking off the issue, what I want to see. So as Spergly over here keeps on losing his mind, he doesn't want to get into hyper specific. He doesn't want to get into hyper specific semantics because that would cause what we'd like to call clarification. That way we're not talking past each other.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, just. Dude, I just gave you your whole spiel. So anyway, the reason I wanna get specific about this, about what fascism is about, whether or not Trump is actually a fascist, whether or not Trump actually enacted fascist policy, all of these things is because you guys, you can't sit on your shows and say this guy's a fascist, he's an authoritarian, he's a dictator, he's a threat to democracy, and then give us nothing. Just like he used some hyperbole about the media.

[Josiah]

He just talked about examples, tried to.

[Luke Beasley]

Stay in office despite losing an election.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, okay, hang on. We'll get to that stuff in a second. Right now we're talking about something else. Calm down, calm down, Spursley. Calm down, Spursley.

[Josiah]

But Andrew, like that's just a misrepresentation of our position. You say that we give you nothing. We're giving you specific things that he did, which.

[Andrew Wilson]

Not with the. No, no, no. You made this claim that Trump has done bad things to the media. He wants to pull their license. He wants to do. He wants to take something away from them.

[Josiah]

He threatened to do those things where.

[Andrew Wilson]

Has he done them?

[Josiah]

So do you think that it's acceptable Unless he follows through on it?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, I think that hyperbole is fine. I think that presidents use hyperbole all the time, that liberals use hyperbole. So, for instance, I'm going to give you an example. When you say Trump's a fascist, I think that's hyperbole, because I don't think you actually think he's a fascist. I think that you just think fascism means authoritarianism. You don't even know what the fuck it is. You don't care about it. Hang on. So you just. I think you're actually using hyperbole when you're talking about fascism in general. So when Trump uses it. When Trump uses hyperbole, when Trump is speaking this way, Trump bad. When you're speaking this way, that's fine.

[Josiah]

Andrew, you should be able to recognize meaningful. This differences between just a random schmuck and then the president.

[Andrew Wilson]

Show me the number one.

[Josiah]

Number one. Number two. Number two, I don't think it's hyperbole at all. We're talking about specific things, specific examples of things that Trump has either done or threatened to do.

[Luke Beasley]

Like, he said Zuckerberg should be in prison now. Zuckerberg's policies that are more friendly to him.

[Tim Pool]

So let me ask you guys a question. We're talking a lot about the threats, and Andrew asked about what he had done. Do you think if Donald Trump threatened to kill an American, that would be.

[Josiah]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Fascistic.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well.

[Josiah]

Oh, fascistic.

[Tim Pool]

Well, I mean, like, so.

[Luke Beasley]

So we're gonna just.

[Tim Pool]

Just to clarify.

[Luke Beasley]

I know, I know. It's really. We're trying to go somewhere. I want to focus because we are being.

[Andrew Wilson]

No one's allowed to talk, but it's Berkeley.

[Tim Pool]

Come on. No one's allowed to talk, but I'm trying to advance the conversation by asking a question to clarify the.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm gonna go back to what we were talking about.

[Tim Pool]

You guys said he's threatening the media. Andrew said that he hasn't actually done it. So I'm trying to say, what if it was a more extreme threat that wasn't just, I'll pull a license. What if Trump said he would kill an American citizen? Would the threat of killing an American in and of itself without the action of doing it be fascistic?

[Luke Beasley]

And this is for everyone, specifically, like, he's gonna. For.

[Tim Pool]

Like, if Trump said, I'm gonna shoot a guy in Fifth Avenue, I'm gonna go do it right now. My point being threatening to take legal action. We can argue Whether, like, it seems kind of a legalese question. So I'm trying to shift it to let's talk about an extreme action Trump could threaten.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, I still haven't gotten an explanation of how it's acceptable to try to block the peaceful transfer power from Andrew, which is what I keep saying. You brought up the fascism word. I said, hey, I get that. People get real bogged down, which is why I have. I've had hours of discussions about that particular term. I came here interested to see if MAGA figures could defend the actual actions, not the label, but the actions. And I'm yet to hear you walk through any of them. We're getting a little bit to the specific media, so I appreciate that. But him try. So to answer your question, him trying to induce a feeling of fear among the media as it's working with his rhetoric, with clear intentions, some of which he didn't actually get done the last time. But, like, he wanted. Let me explore things, and I'm still waiting on either of them.

[Tim Pool]

So here, here's.

[Myron Gaines]

Here's why.

[Tim Pool]

Here's why I asked the question about killing an American, specifically Obama.

[Luke Beasley]

I know the.

[Tim Pool]

No, it's because whether or not the government can pull a license is a legal question over whether or not they violated a public license. And so you guys are then arguing outside of the actual confines of a legal. Legal issue, which. So. So let's make it definitively an issue of illegal or legal.

[Luke Beasley]

Or we could talk about what Trump is.

[Tim Pool]

Okay. The federal government grants public licenses with stipulations. If you want to debate whether or not they can or can't, that's a legal procedural question.

[Luke Beasley]

You understand, you can have the governmental power to do something, but how you leverage it for the.

[Josiah]

Why.

[Tim Pool]

This is why. I tried shifting away to something more direct, like killing somebody. A threat to kill somebody is a direct question.

[Josiah]

Well, the government can kill people.

[Luke Beasley]

Government can kill people.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Josiah]

So that's what I'm saying. Like, to me, this belies the point of it. Like this idea that it can't be authoritarian or can't be fascist if it is within the. The technical legal confines of the federal government. That's exactly.

[Tim Pool]

That's not the point I'm making, of course.

[Andrew Wilson]

Why, Again, the semantics would be really important here to clarify what we mean when we say fascist.

[Luke Beasley]

We're. No one's bringing that up.

[Tim Pool]

We're giving care about Galatians.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, I'm bringing it up Spurgly.

[Josiah]

We're giving you specific.

[Andrew Wilson]

Actually, tell me what we mean by this.

[Josiah]

Sure.

[Tim Pool]

It makes for great clips, but we don't need the ad hominems. You called him boring. You're calling him sparkly. We don't need to do.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh well, boring. I made the conversation.

[Josiah]

I don't think you're boring.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't think you're boring.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'm not.

[Luke Beasley]

I just thought the conversation was getting.

[Andrew Wilson]

And he is burning, so.

[Luke Beasley]

But anyway, call me, whatever.

[Andrew Wilson]

So. So I'm like, I'm actually happy to dive into this. You say that I'm avoiding your questions. I'm not. First of all, I'll answer them directly. It's well within Trump's rights. Even if it was, let's just say. Right. Let's just say I grant it. It's within his rights to set alternative electors. He's well within his rights to do that. Tell me why that's even wrong.

[Josiah]

Are people being prosecuted in states for participating in this scheme? Who is fake electors?

[Luke Beasley]

Who?

[Tim Pool]

I got a question. Does the law prescribe morality?

[Josiah]

No, wait, you said the right. Do you mean legal right or moral right? Oh, oh, sorry.

[Luke Beasley]

I thought it was a good question. I was just.

[Andrew Wilson]

What's actually wrong with it? So why is it even problematic?

[Josiah]

Because he didn't win the election.

[Andrew Wilson]

So let's just say he did.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, well then agree.

[Andrew Wilson]

Stop, stop, stop, Spurgly. Let's just say he didn't. Let's just assume. Stop, Spurgly. Let's just. Can. Can I have a back and forth for elections?

[Myron Gaines]

I mean, without you nipping my. It's interesting that we're even on this. Like, the election was stolen, guys, that.

[Josiah]

Is why the 2024 election.

[Myron Gaines]

The 2020 election.

[Josiah]

Oh, it was stolen.

[Andrew Wilson]

Can I. I mean, I'd like to just dive into this. We can figure this out real quick.

[Josiah]

Why was it stolen? How was it stolen? That's a.

[Myron Gaines]

Two different factors here. I mean, I wrote it down. We got the mail in ballot.

[Josiah]

That was a pretty sleek move there.

[Myron Gaines]

Minion voting systems, vote counting observers, late night ballot dumps, ballot harvesting, double voting, foreign interference, improper voter registration practices, manipulation by poll workers, geolocation data, surveillance footage, whistleblowers, vulnerabilities in election laws, suppression of the Hunter, Biden laptop. I mean, what else? I mean, I think anyone with any common sense would understand because we're talking about the fascism. And he challenged the election. All this other stuff. Let's talk about why he challenged it.

[Josiah]

It was because he lost.

[Myron Gaines]

No, because it was stolen.

[Luke Beasley]

Right.

[Myron Gaines]

There's a multitude of evidence to show me, which that the 2020 election, there was some Type of interference to some degree reminds a multitude which court.

[Luke Beasley]

He was able to demonstrate that in Pennsylvania.

[Tim Pool]

And the lower court ruled on the merits that they violated like a procedural.

[Luke Beasley]

But not.

[Tim Pool]

No, it was actually talking about. The judge said that the Constitution of Pennsylvania was violated by the implementation of universal mail in voting. The Supreme Court overturned the rule.

[Luke Beasley]

And he just.

[Josiah]

That's a higher. That's a higher court. Right. So we.

[Tim Pool]

He asked me which conservative.

[Josiah]

Right, I understand, but. But I assume he's referring to like a court's verdict or a court's.

[Luke Beasley]

And you just listed a bunch of like, you brought geolocation data. The. That was in like 2,000 mules. And they had to admit when.

[Andrew Wilson]

The reason this is a terrible different factor, the reason it's a terrible argument is because if I say, okay, well, then who got prosecuted for insurrection? You'll say, well, just because they weren't prosecuted for insurrection doesn't mean it wasn't an insurrection. Okay, great. Just because. Well, hang on, hang on, Luke. Well, just because he wasn't able to demonstrate that the election was stolen in a court because they threw most of it out on standing, doesn't mean it wasn't stolen. It just means that we had, we had a bunch of judges. What about the guy who went after it on standing? But we have. There is a lot of evidence here that should be looked at. I'm not saying it was stolen. It's not my position.

[Luke Beasley]

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[Myron Gaines]

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[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, but I am saying that.

[Josiah]

Do you have a position on.

[Andrew Wilson]

Just out of curiosity, I think it should be investigated and it never properly was being investigated when Trump is in office. I think he should actually run a real investigation into it. I think that the idea that, well, Trump so Biden takes the White House, that there was a legitimate investigation done by the Biden administration for the guy he could have lost to. I think that that's ridiculous.

[Josiah]

But, but doesn't that motive the opposite way too? Like, doesn't know. Seriously, like, doesn't that motive work the opposite way? Because Trump's position was before the election, it's stolen, it's rigged. Well, and during the, like, that's, I.

[Andrew Wilson]

Mean, that's a fair criticism. I just think that you have enough third party people which can be approached who could investigate this in a way in which it was fair.

[Josiah]

They hired, they, they hired like third party groups. So, like, was it cyber ninja fathers, Kim Block?

[Andrew Wilson]

They weren't able to a lot of the evidence that they wanted. They had a lot of the circuit courts throw things out on standing. I do not think that this was a legitimate investigation. And there are some things that should be investigated. For instance, it's not a secure election to have people just dropping ballots unsecured in a ballot box. That's insanity.

[Josiah]

Yeah, but respectfully, Andrew, like subpoenas and standing, these things are like valid legal constructs. Like you, you have to meet, like probable cause for a subpoena. If you don't have probable cause to get a subpoena, then that's on you. And if you don't have standing to bring a case, then again, that's on you.

[Andrew Wilson]

The problem is that.

[Luke Beasley]

Are you saying.

[Andrew Wilson]

Hang on, it's an allocate. Can I answer one question at a time? Dude, I'm not going to let you. And I'm just literally trying to talk to the guy. I think that it's fine. And I think you bring up a valid point, but I think when you have a Justice Department, you can instruct your Justice Department how to prioritize different situations. I think it's fine for Trump to say, listen, I still think that there was foul play in this election. And even if there wasn't, let's just decide it once and for all. Let's get it figured out once and for all. And instruct his Justice Department to begin investigating whether or not there was there was some type of foul play going on.

[Myron Gaines]

And who conducted the investigation?

[Josiah]

A guy named Kim, I think, in Arizona hired independent.

[Luke Beasley]

They got like cyber ninjas in Arizona.

[Myron Gaines]

Okay, so they're already lost because they don't have the authority to properly do the investigation. You need federal agents, 18 11s, FBI, special agents to do the case. That's how it goes.

[Luke Beasley]

Trump's administration was the one investigating it. That then came back to Trump and enraged him by saying, we can't find any evidence.

[Myron Gaines]

And because they don't have the authority to.

[Andrew Wilson]

They don't have the evidence.

[Luke Beasley]

This is, this is what you're going.

[Myron Gaines]

To need FBI agents to do it.

[Luke Beasley]

Until the end of time is say there's never been enough investigations or you could admit the available evidence doesn't prove.

[Tim Pool]

So well, let's advance on the election.

[Myron Gaines]

We can.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, so, yeah, so don't just keep moving the goalposts. You have to admit that the of the investigations have been done and all the evidence that we've got.

[Josiah]

The last thing I want to add on this too, like, to me it's like, what about the standard? Did you call for investigations into 2016? What about 2024? Should Democrats, the next time they're in power, like forensically audit, you know, the 2024 election? Would you be satisfied with.

[Andrew Wilson]

They do ask for these things.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Luke Beasley]

But we're off of that.

[Josiah]

Sorry.

[Luke Beasley]

So then we're off of that. So. But do you agree?

[Tim Pool]

Well, I've got a topic for you guys based on what you have asked, so I want to ask questions. So one of the things that kicked this off was you guys asked about Trump's threats to the media.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Recently, Mark Zuckerberg went on the Joe Rogan podcast and said that he was getting phone calls from the Biden administration screaming and cursing at him, and that they were effectively pressured into censoring information. One of these stories in particular, Mark Zuckerberg said that the feds went to him and said, there will be information on Hunter Biden. This will be Russian disinformation. Knowing that they were pressuring and screaming at them, Facebook ultimately removed this story, which according to a few pollsters, they believe did swing the election by a few or swing public, public opinion on Trump by a few points. I'm curious your guys thoughts on that story.

[Josiah]

I was just to say if there is like any evidence of the Biden administration threatened Facebook to like censor disinformation, that's fucked up. And I would condemn it wholeheartedly, 100%. But so number one, I think Zuckerberg was asked about this by, was it Rogan? It was like, do you have any evidence or any recordings? He was like, no, unfortunately. And to me, the other thing I really want to emphasize here, every administration, including Trump's, engaged with social media to like intelligence agencies, to like, say, hey, this might be a potential terroristic threat, this might be a violation of national security. This might violate your own TV tos number one. And number two, I recall during the Twitter files congressional hearing, we found out that even on petty shit that the Trump administration reached out to Twitter to ask them to remove a tweet by Chrissy Teigen, John Legend's wife, because she called him a pussy ass bitch. There's never like a perfectly demarcated line. But I expect that there's going to be engagement between social media and the intelligence agencies of every administration. But when you're asking people to take down tweets because you referred to the president as a pussy ass bitch, that's, that's.

[Andrew Wilson]

We respond to this.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, but we'd be into, dude, I.

[Andrew Wilson]

Don'T like, just calm down, you'll get a chance. So anyway, to respond to this, I think you make some valid points, but there's some there that aren't really valid. So yeah, sure. So let's say someone in Trump administration, or even Trump himself is like, hey, can you take this tweet down? I don't like it, it hurts my feelings. Right, fine. You can condemn it, you can say it's an abuse of power or something like this. Seems like a kind of vague abuse of power. But there's a distinction when Facebook is being contacted by the Biden administration to tell them to censor all anti Covid vaccination information, period. To take those things down to throw people off who are disseminating this information, this and that. He says this is now narrative building. This is I want you, this ginormous media outlet to build the narrative that my administration wants and I'm gonna use the coercive power of my office to do it. There's a distinction, I think, between that and I don't like this tweet. Take it down.

[Josiah]

So again, if that's exactly what happened, I'd probably be inclined to agree. But there's no evidence of that. The number one, it was Zack Zuckerberg saying it. Well, wait a minute. What I mean is. So again, it depends very much on the nature of the engagement between the government and Facebook. Again, if they threaten Facebook, if you don't take this down, there will be consequences or something like that. Besides just requests or even strong requests, there's also a public health emergency at issue here. So even if you disagree with what the federal government under Donald Trump, by the way, cuz a lot of this happened in 2020 and under the Biden administration, if you disagree with why they were pressuring it to me, because that line is not perfectly demarcated, it's more Understandable why the federal government would be urging social media companies to crack down on disinformation they believe will kill people. Well, just let me finish. As opposed to the President of the United States, the most powerful man in the world, pressuring a social media company because a celebrity insulted him. That is indefensible.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, first of all, there's far less. Finish our exchange. Dude, you'll get a chance. You'll get a chance. Dude, you'll get a chance.

[Luke Beasley]

Let me quickly.

[Andrew Wilson]

We're almost done with our exchange. Calm down. How long is it going to be? So anyway, look, this will be the last thing. Okay, Luke? And then we'll take it over to you. Anyway, this is called rational discussion. I know it's hard for you, but anyway, I think it's fine. I think it's fine to make the criticism. I don't want the President to call and ask to take down a tweet. Fine. Again, though, when you're talking about narrative building from the Justice Department, contacting Facebook itself, trying to construct a narrative, how much more fascistic can you get, Authoritarianism can you get than there's a counter narrative out here about COVID There's a counter narrative here about some of the therapeutics. And by the way, Zuckerberg has since said some of the things that they were saying on the counter side were true. And they were asking us to take these things down and we complied. And it's like, that's pretty fascistic. That's pretty authoritarianism.

[Tim Pool]

Let me throw in one thing before we jump to Luke. I actually personally don't care for either story. COVID vaccine stuff. It's big. I get it. And targeting someone because they're personally mean to you is actually kind of worrying. The more concerning thing to me that is missed was the censorship of Eric Charamella, which just by saying that name, YouTube might delete the stream. When Eric.

[Josiah]

Don't say it, then shit, this is why it came all this way.

[Andrew Wilson]

Just say Eric C. We'll send you the broadcast.

[Tim Pool]

When an employee of the C. I believe he's an employee. But when someone working with the CIA released information that resulted in the impeachment of Donald Trump, and the Real Clear investigations released the report that the individual had been identified by as Eric Charmella, every major social media platform, I think Twitter did not do this at the time, would censor any information with that name without warning, without a strike, just simply remove it. So I think when we look at the censorship of big tech, we can talk about public information like Covid vaccines. It is particularly worrying to me that Facebook, in all of this, especially with this story, they had a portal made for the feds to report, quote, unquote, misinformation. We're actively censoring stories of deep political merit. And they. They still have never accounted for it or answered for it.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. So let me.

[Andrew Wilson]

Zuckerberg says he was coerced.

[Luke Beasley]

He said he felt so. As Josiah and I mentioned, we're not really interested in being blindly partisan, as some folks are. And so if you have an example of the Biden administration crossing a line, we'll just denounce it. Strange that you won't do the same with Trump, which is part of what I'm trying to flesh out here. But whenever the case was brought to the Supreme Court relating to some of this with Facebook, you might remember, and they ended up ruling against the plaintiffs who were saying they were unfairly censored because of the government being involved. And one of the things they found out was that the. The social media platforms, long before government was asking anything on Covid misinfo, already was implementing a terms of service stuff on that. And you can have an issue with that. And in this new world where we have these platforms, all this power, we're going to be grappling over what the right term service, probably not no terms of service, but certain rules. But we can all disagree on how that's structured. But whether or not it's like a violation of the First Amendment relating to the government getting involved got slapped down by the Supreme Court because there's just not the evidence that the platforms felt coerced, because you will look at the percentages, even in portals like this one, where they would say, hey, we think this violates your term service. And the platforms would go, no, no, it doesn't. And they would say no. And then the government would go, all.

[Myron Gaines]

Right, this is censorship in general is a problem.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, this is my position. This is new stuff what we're talking about now. This is new stuff which is coming out, Zuckerberg whistleblowing about a bunch of stuff we did not previously know. You're referencing stuff that has come out, what, multiple years ago. What I'm saying to you specifically here is that there's no way for you to say, if you're gonna say Trump is an authoritarian. He's, you know, he's evil. He's there to curtail the media. You know, this type of thing. If the Biden administration's working in tandem, their Justice Department trying to be coercive, to Mark Zuckerberg to censor off information. And specifically from conservatives, by the way. They were the ones who were mostly trying to give a counter narrative on the COVID 19 stuff. Different political stuff, the J6 stuff. He said he was approached by the DOJ on all of these different things and so was Facebook. It sounds like they're trying to create a narrative within one of the largest social media company platforms, which is out there, which benefits their administration. How much more authoritarian can you get than that?

[Myron Gaines]

And they banned Trump off everything right after. Yeah, like they banned him. He got.

[Luke Beasley]

That was while Trump was president.

[Josiah]

That was while Trump was president, number one. But just real quick on this. So this. Yes. He's referencing a Supreme Court case which. Could you agree you're right. That the Zuckerberg revelations are relatively recent. But I mean, here's my question.

[Andrew Wilson]

Sure.

[Josiah]

Do you trust Mark Zuckerberg? Here's the reason why. I know you don't, Tim. I know. So I think it's important because a lot of people who even now are happy that Zuckerberg is adopting a more MAGA posture. For example, they don't trust. And they call him a fair weather friend because wherever the political winds blow, is it possible? Especially because as far as I know, he's not produced any corroborating evidence that he's bullshitting just to try to ingratiate himself with you.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. So you have a couple of problems here, which is what would his motivation actually be to do this? So to be fair, do I trust Zuckerberg? No, of course not. I don't trust any of these tech giants. That includes Elon Musk. I don't trust him either.

[Josiah]

Fucking cheers, man.

[Andrew Wilson]

But here's the thing, right? People do have motivations for the things they do. What would Zuckerberg's motivation be in expressing. And by the way, he began expressing this before he knew what the outcome of the new election was gonna be. Even. Okay, he was expressing this before that.

[Josiah]

Yeah. But he didn't like drop any of these sort of like.

[Andrew Wilson]

So the thing is, what is his motivation here for explaining that the Department of Justice is reaching out and trying to censor various conservative content? Except that he wants to be freed from the yoke of governments approaching Facebook and doing this. Cuz it creates all sorts of problems for him in his market. Right. He actually has more of an incentive to tell the truth about this than he does to lie.

[Josiah]

Well, I don't know if he's lying. I'm just saying, like there seems to be even on The MAGA side, an understanding that he has a credibility issue, number one. Number two, as far as I know, he's not corroborated any of these claims, which perhaps he will in the future. And number three, I think that he would have an incentive to say these things, certainly after the election, given that Trump won, but even before, when the outcome is in doubt, in order to. You actually said it yourself to distance his social media company from any government intervention.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, but his incentive then would be to tell the truth about this. There could be, for instance, a guy like Zuckerberg has such a high profile, it would not surprise me if he was called in for congressional hearings. If they were running investigations into various forms of interference, things like this. He would need to actually have his story straight.

[Josiah]

But he just like he would need. But like that specific example, this big, like, headline explosive event where, you know, they called me on the phone and, you know, they were cursing us out. Rogan said, ha, ha, those recordings would be sick. And he's like, no, we don't have any recordings. So he's almost making claims specifically that as of this moment, he can't possibly corroborate.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Josiah]

And that's.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, but the thing is, like, I'm not disputing that he can't corroborate those claims at the moment. Right. And like you said, evidence could go out in the future.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

What I'm saying to you is it's a matter of incentives. What's his actual incentive to lie versus telling the truth about this? Seems like he has more incentive to tell the truth about it than to lie about it.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Myron Gaines]

Self preservation.

[Luke Beasley]

I mean, doing this in line with donating, you know, meta. Donating a million dollars to Trump's inaugural fund. Inaugural fund. And also speaking more positively about Trump and also hiring Dana White, like doing a lot of things that will make Trump like him more. And Trump goes on video. Yeah. I think this is in response to my threats. And so my point about bringing up that case was I think he's just blowing it out of proportion because every time.

[Josiah]

No, yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

You.

[Josiah]

Surely you give a.

[Luke Beasley]

About.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, I'm about to.

[Luke Beasley]

Every time.

[Andrew Wilson]

Respond when he's done.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, every time. It's been sort of. There's been a chance to prove that there's this coercion going on. They can't. Which is why I brought up the thing. He is bringing like new versions of the allegations, but they're just overinflated versions of what they were saying before, which they can't prove because in reality, unless something crazy comes out, that's not really the phenomena take place. But I do want to just note that I, both Josiah and I have demonstrated on our own shows constantly that we can criticize.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, let's talk about that.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm curious. And this is why we came.

[Andrew Wilson]

Hang on. You can defend Shifted Trump's thing before you shift it. I want to, like, we just gave a very, very briefly on that.

[Tim Pool]

I want to, I want, I want to give you guys the final point on this topic before we move on. So if you want to hit it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Or I want to hit it real quick, and then.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, I'll go after this.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, so listen. Sure. I watched your coverage of what you just talked about when you were talking about Trump threatening Zuckerberg. Right. You were reading his. Or you were watching CNN pundits who were discussing this, and they left a critical part out. And so did you, interestingly enough, Luke, which is where Trump said, if he's guilty of crimes. If he's guilty of crimes. That was the actual tweet. If he's guilty of crimes, then we will. We will take action. You left all of that out.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, no.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Oh, no.

[Luke Beasley]

You did, right?

[Andrew Wilson]

You left it all out.

[Luke Beasley]

Can I know we're on. But just so you know, that's what Trump says every time. Obviously, if msnbc.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, you left it off. You left it out on.

[Josiah]

He said imprison him for life.

[Andrew Wilson]

If he was guilty of crimes, shouldn't.

[Josiah]

He be guilty of crimes?

[Myron Gaines]

No.

[Andrew Wilson]

Did the president say, if you're guilty of crimes, I'm going to imprison you? Oh, my God.

[Josiah]

Which crimes merit life?

[Luke Beasley]

I would note that next time, I promise, because it doesn't change the argument. Yeah, I, I stand by what I said. I'll note that. He said, if that's going to be his argument.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's the crux, Luke. That's the crux. What's wrong with the President saying, if you're guilty of crimes, I'm going to put you in jail? Nothing.

[Josiah]

Would you grant that premise for Trump's convictions? Trump is guilty of crimes.

[Andrew Wilson]

What crimes?

[Josiah]

Falsifying business records. 34 counts. He was found guilty in a court of law.

[Myron Gaines]

Oh, my God.

[Josiah]

No, no, wait.

[Luke Beasley]

There we go.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no.

[Josiah]

Listen to me. But here's my point. You can think that those charges are bullshit, but this idea that, oh, it's no big deal if he's guilty of crimes.

[Andrew Wilson]

And if the President said. President Biden came out and said, if Trump's guilty of. Has right. He should Go to jail. Which he has. Yeah. And you know what the liberals say? Hang on. The liberals go, yeah, absolutely. I'll address this because, like, what are you talking about?

[Tim Pool]

We can address this because there's a perspective issue. I think you make a good point that saying if someone's guilty of crimes behind this view, that there's a fear Trump will levy false crimes is a legitimate concern. The issue with the perspective is people do not believe Trump is legitimately guilty of crimes.

[Luke Beasley]

Sure.

[Tim Pool]

And so the argument is that Trump is saying legitimately guilty of crimes and the crimes that Trump has been charged with are illegitimate. Yeah, that's the perspective.

[Luke Beasley]

So we're saying the president chooses to talk about that. About it. I think the perspective here's political difference.

[Andrew Wilson]

I think the perspective here is they're saying, isn't it if Trump says this, shouldn't you hold the same standard with Democrats? But we do. Biden has said this multiple times. Biden has said if Trump's guilty of crimes, he should go to prison. If this person is guilty of crimes, they should go to prison. I'll just like they say it. You know what I mean?

[Josiah]

Like, I'm not aware. I'm not aware of Biden ever advocating number on Trump's guilt or innocence publicly or saying that he should be in prison. My understanding is he's been about as fastidious as a politician can be. There's some exception, but I'm not aware of it.

[Andrew Wilson]

And by the way, if you think that Democrats. Democrat, the entire Democrat Party.

[Josiah]

No way.

[Luke Beasley]

Whoa, whoa.

[Andrew Wilson]

Biden, too. Yes, Biden do.

[Josiah]

Having a good thing here.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, Biden, too. If it is the case. Okay.

[Josiah]

That you guys have actually had the better thing. I'll be honest with you.

[Andrew Wilson]

Any of these people come out and say, if Donald Trump is guilty of, like, wouldn't you guys say that if Donald Trump is guilty of crimes, he should go to prison?

[Luke Beasley]

Yes.

[Andrew Wilson]

Like, what do you mean?

[Luke Beasley]

Let me just lay a little framework here. I agree. Of course, the statement is uncontroversial. If someone's guilty of crimes and they're, you know, of a certain level, they should go to prison, obviously.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

But any person who unjustly imprisons people says that. And so we're saying of the people Trump chooses to say they should be put in prison or say they should be locked up or say that they should be targeted by the government. It's a very specific set of people he chooses, which is when someone wrongs him politically, all of a sudden now he randomly mentions if you're guilty of crime, you should go to prison. When they're not accused of crimes, there's no reason to believe they've committed crimes, he'll just throw it out. Obviously, that would be his justification. Zuckerberg committed a crime, but he's just saying that to scare him because there's no reason.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's an interjection of an emotional state, not a provable one.

[Tim Pool]

I don't see any difference between the.

[Andrew Wilson]

All you're doing is interjecting your. This is how I perceive it. I perceive that he's politically targeting people because he said, if you're guilty of.

[Josiah]

Crimes, I'll just again throw you a bone here because maybe there's something out there that I miss. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of Biden's, you know, every statement he's made, if he ever adopted the same sort of posture that Trump did of, like, Fox News, Fox News, a great example. They had to pay $787 million in the biggest defamation settlement in American history because it was very possible they would lose that case against Dominion. We've never seen anything like that in liberal media. Biden could have, by Trump's own logic, said, you know what? Fox just had to pay nearly a billion dollars in a loyalty tithe to Donald Trump. We never send MSNBC or cns. You know what? I'm ordering my DOJ to investigate Fox News. And if Fox News executives are guilty of these things, we're gonna throw them away for life. Prison them for life. Biden could have said that. He didn't. And if he did say it, that'd be super up. Because I do think what you're describing.

[Andrew Wilson]

Secret subpoenas, what you're describing doesn't surprise me.

[Josiah]

What you're describing as an anodyne statement to me, takes a sinister tone when it comes from a person in power, by the way.

[Andrew Wilson]

Sinister tone. So it's an emotional state.

[Luke Beasley]

Obvious.

[Andrew Wilson]

It's an emotional state you could reject.

[Josiah]

I'm just saying that I hold. I would hold Biden to the same standard if he did some of that shit.

[Tim Pool]

Let's jump to this next subject. Donald Trump is expected to sign. I mean, Some reports say 100 executive orders in a single day. It's gonna be nuts. Many of them pertain to drilling and energy. Joe Biden just banned drilling. I don't.

[Josiah]

They say, is it a near shore?

[Tim Pool]

The near shore that it's gonna be difficult to overdo. I'm sorry to overturn those orders. We don't know for sure when Joe Biden first got in, he did two major things. He shut down Keystone and he banned fracking on public land. Trump wants to reverse these things. So I'm curious your guys thoughts.

[Josiah]

Well, being soy liberals who believe in climate change, I mean I would love to see a more at least diverse energy portfolio where we try to embrace renewable energy as much as possible. I will just say that energy production under Biden achieved the highest levels in recorded history even compared to Trump's. I don't know what Trump is going to do.

[Luke Beasley]

Including oil production, to be clear.

[Josiah]

Yeah, including oil production. I mean my God, at the end of his I think first year he was producing or he was signing lease and permits for drilling and fracking at a rate that was higher than under Trump. He was just trying to quell like new permits and leases because there was a huge backlog.

[Luke Beasley]

Got it.

[Josiah]

So yeah, energy production is great under Biden compared to even Trump. I don't know what it is about these particular EOs. It's going to be so difficult for Trump to undo with a stroke of a pen because my understanding is President signs it with an eo, it can be revoked pretty easily with an eo.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, Biden's was invoking like a old law which is why however that was.

[Josiah]

Oh, so it wasn't done. Okay.

[Luke Beasley]

With the other one. Yeah, I think by Biden should get a lot of credit with that. The crazy thing is as Trump was going out a part of the deal that he was making with like Saudi Arabia and Russia. We can pull up the specifics, been a long time since we've reviewed them. But was to reduce oil production because.

[Josiah]

Of the collapse before COVID crisis. Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

So a lot of the recovery to get back to the energy production we were before was pandemic related in part deals that Trump was making to try to help the oil industry. Some made sense because of the collapse of the oil industry. But. But I will say Biden's doing a good job of both trying to progress green energy initiatives while not rocking the system too much energy wise. And that's why oil production is still so high. But we're getting green energy incentivized so that as we transition off it's the least economically painful but we can get there.

[Andrew Wilson]

There's not going to be a transition off. So that's a, that's a long day away. And one of the reasons for that is because of logistics with semi trucks. We need the diesel engines and that's that. So the thing is you just Wait till the first Prius when you're talking about.

[Josiah]

You just fucking wait when you're talking.

[Andrew Wilson]

About fracking and things like this. Yes, that is true. I agree with you that Biden does have high energy output in the nation, but Trump got all that ball rolling when he moved into the fracking sphere. I mean, that was a big thing for him and he brought it back in a big way. And yes. Did Biden be. Was he able to capitalize on that? Sure, he was able to capitalize on that. But you can't take that away from Trump that he, I mean, he definitely pushed fracking in a very big way.

[Josiah]

I don't.

[Andrew Wilson]

And the thing is about that, that type of energy, Right. It's not even that detrimental. It's not that detrimental. What I would like to see in here, maybe we can find jobs too. Maybe we can find some common ground here.

[Josiah]

I'd like to make Andrew Soy as fuck.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'd like to see a switch to nuclear energy. Yes, that's the cleanest. That's the cleanest.

[Josiah]

But Chernobyl, Andrew.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, but that's all Soviet panic mongering done by guys who are like the fascists, the commune. The fascist done by you guys. But anyway.

[Tim Pool]

We should, we should go.

[Andrew Wilson]

Over to complete nuclear energy.

[Josiah]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

And we should do that immediately. There's no good reason not to. The chances that we're going to have these meltdowns, things like that, they're very, very rare.

[Josiah]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

When they do happen, we do have things we can do which is bury it usually. But. But the truth is, is that it's very, very safe. It's very safe.

[Josiah]

I totally agree.

[Andrew Wilson]

Power, everything. It seems like it's a very good way for us to. There's the great compromise. Whether you believe in global warming. You don't believe in global warming. Doesn't really matter because both sides can agree on the fact that nuclear energy is the best way forward and it will reduce the greenhouse emissions so that you latte soy fuckers can be happy. Right.

[Josiah]

You mean we're on this side?

[Andrew Wilson]

I get cheap energy so that, you know, straight guys can go have families. Right. So that's. So everyone's happy.

[Josiah]

Yeah. So like, I'd love you to be on the same page of climate change, but honestly, I don't give a fuck. You're right. I mean, who cares what the motivations are at the end of the day, we agree on policy.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I will say, y'all agree that a lot of the right was lying about Biden's energy record. Right. Because I still hear the energy production crushed under him and oil production. He stopped oil production.

[Josiah]

There's not a single fucking oil rig working in this. Right.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, yeah. And that's a big part of my economic message.

[Andrew Wilson]

I mean, you're attacking positions. You should attack the positions of people in the room with you. I'm not yet like some obscure right winger, really hostile.

[Luke Beasley]

I feel like I'm being very nice right now.

[Josiah]

So, yeah, you guys are going to be friends.

[Luke Beasley]

A lot of my economic message on Biden or analysis we're going to be. Does relate to. He actually has a really strong economic record. I would love to talk about that. Some of it's out of his hands. Like, I think the Fed did a really good job of managing interest rates and getting us out.

[Josiah]

We agree that the Federal Reserve should.

[Luke Beasley]

Be controlled by Trump. But there was a really successful. Which is why I think Harris lost.

[Andrew Wilson]

Wait, you want the Fed, you want the Fed to stay separate? You don't want Congress to coin money again?

[Josiah]

Well, no, I, I mean separate from like not under, like like at will. Fireable by the President. I think there should be a degree of independence. Why currently is. I just.

[Andrew Wilson]

They're, they're responsible for our money supply. They need to be answerable to our government.

[Josiah]

You could discharge the chairman of the Federal Reserve for cause, but I just don't think that they should be like a political appointee. I think that's fair.

[Luke Beasley]

Think about during times of, you know, the reason that people thought that Biden would.

[Josiah]

Wait, would you want to soy liberals? Like just like firing casually.

[Andrew Wilson]

I think that Congress should be in charge of the distribution of money in the United States, not a private banking institution where you can have a single guy who can raise or deflate the currency at will. That gives them so much unilateral power that they could be on par with the President of the United States. When the entire world uses or the dollar as the, as the reserve currency, having a single guy like Alan Greenspan who can say here's this lever. We increase the money supply and inflate it and. Or we decrease it so that we can deflate it.

[Tim Pool]

The control of interest rates can result in the President winning or losing an election.

[Andrew Wilson]

I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's totally.

[Josiah]

Jerome Powell to try to.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, that's not why he wanted to do. No what Trump wanted. The reason that Trump wanted interest rates low is because his economic advisors were telling him something which is true. The Midwest is starving for credit. Okay. This had Democrat Governors everywhere, all over the place. And they have been putting this squeeze on manufacturing there with business taxes, everything else, they can't get access to credit. What happens when the interest rates go low? Hang on. What happens when the interest rates go low? Everyone borrows money. The credit is there. And so what he was doing is he said not only are we going to cut business taxes by 30% for corporations, but we're going to give them an incentive to borrow money to expand. Right. But if we want to give them incentives to borrow money, we got to have a lower interest rate. His entire economic team told him that. By the way, it makes sense. And by the way, they borrowed a shitload of money and a lot of these businesses did expand.

[Josiah]

Now, please, please, watch it. Please.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, can we please.

[Josiah]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Luke Beasley]

I just want to. Will y'all then, regardless of that, because that's the whole thing, the stance on the Fed. But I shouldn't have thrown that in there. I'm just saying, will you acknowledge that whether it was Biden or his team or whatever of the power they had did a really good job managing the recovery out of the pandemic?

[Andrew Wilson]

No.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay. Because that's what I would love to discuss. Because we, we did better than our comparable economy.

[Tim Pool]

Let's. Let's just say it objectively that people of this country did not believe the recovery was good.

[Luke Beasley]

That's not a. That's their feeling.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, well, no, the economy was listed as one of the top issues, and Donald Trump did win the popular vote.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, I'm with you. I'm with you. That people believed it was bad.

[Tim Pool]

General, the people did not believe the recovery was good.

[Josiah]

Yeah, but to me, no, I agree. Yeah, but that's a separate issue. Like, there's no question that Biden was not able to persuade the majority of Americans that his economic stewardship was good.

[Luke Beasley]

His prices went up, as they did around the world, but we managed to get it down faster than our comparable.

[Josiah]

Economy, the rate of inflation.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, but explain that to people.

[Andrew Wilson]

Believe. The reason for that is like, me and Myron were discussing this this morning. You do realize economics. I know you've talked to O'Connell. Boy, he's a smart guy, right? And he'll tell you the same thing. It's faith based. Okay. One of the things that's happened under Biden is a bunch of wars, right? He's been. He's involving the United States in a bunch of wars. Now you can say they're justified for him to be involved in these. Not justified for him to Be involved in these. But it shakes people's faith. And you have good shortages now, right? You have, you have some good shortages coming from, you know, Eastern bloc country, possibly imports. I know, like here's an obscure one, but ammunition to the United States from Russia, right, for like private consumption. You need it right now, like for private consumption. You know what I mean? That has skyrocketed. I mean, Obama had outlawed it for a long time. So the thing is, is like, yes, it's faith based. When you involve us in different wars, things like that shakes people's confidence when we're not involved in foreign affairs. We're not involved in foreign wars, man. People feel way more comfortable when it comes to their spending habits, when it comes to expansion, when it comes to things like this, because they have that sense of certainty.

[Josiah]

My understanding is like consumer spending habits have been pretty incongruous with the public's opinion on the economy. They spent a fuck ton during this holiday. It's like, like pre pandemic.

[Tim Pool]

There's a data point for, for clarification though. I believe that was largely higher income earners were spending exorbitantly and lower income earners were not, which created an average or a median.

[Luke Beasley]

But we've seen like in, in almost every single economic metric a miracle coming out of the pandemic, including purchasing power getting back to what it was pre pandemic, which is stunning giving given the price increases that were happening. I think, I think the economic.

[Andrew Wilson]

It's not a miracle.

[Luke Beasley]

I think the economic. Because, because what happened, I've been, I've been really trying.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, go ahead, go ahead.

[Luke Beasley]

Really trying. Yeah, yeah, I will, I will, I will say so. We started outperforming even projections pre pandemic. We outperformed our other wealthy country counterparts. We brought down inflation faster, we got purchasing power back, we got wage growth back. All these things, labor force participation, that's a crazy one. The highest employment's low.

[Josiah]

Bush.

[Luke Beasley]

And so in western country after western country, you've seen sort of an anti incumbent bias because of price increases, which makes sense because people don't know like what all the exact data points are. Understandably, they're just going, they're buying things and they're mad that the prices have gone up. But that doesn't mean that the management of the economy was bad. It means that there's been a effective messaging campaign to convince people the reason prices went up was because of Biden when it was really, no, you can't.

[Andrew Wilson]

Put it on phenomenon that he can't put it, he didn't really. Propaganda. You can't say the people were just propagandized into believing.

[Josiah]

Well, I think he meant that the economy.

[Andrew Wilson]

That the economy.

[Luke Beasley]

Acknowledge any of the points at all.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'm acknowledging I deal with any of them. What I'm literally going through, why do.

[Luke Beasley]

We outperform the other countries? Why do we give.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, okay, but hang on, hang on. Look, first of all, okay, let's go over it. Like real wages, for instance, if you look at real wages under Trump, they were the highest that they were. That they ever were. Ever. So real wages, you can pull it up. Highest they ever were. It was on a trajectory to do this. So it's been. It's been on an upward trajectory. Under Trump, it was high. Okay. Biden has taken advantage of a lot of Trump's economic policies. Okay. He's been able to take advantage of many of them. All that happened here, it was not a big miracle like you're putting it. You're saying, oh, it was miraculous. We were able to recover from this. Yeah, that's what happens when you take the chains off of industry and the chains off of people. What actually happened is this. In reality, the Biden administration was still pushing a narrative of masking mandates and other things that was coming out of the cdc, Fauci and the rest of these individuals. Okay. Largely they did not move those restrictions off. People just ignored them. They just finally said enough and they just began ignoring them outright. They ignored them.

[Josiah]

Yeah, but what restrictions? I don't remember. Like federal restrictions on like just the American people. Reload.

[Andrew Wilson]

No. So what happens?

[Myron Gaines]

Plane without a mask.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. What happens is fucking up the economy.

[Josiah]

No, no, no. I'm sorry to clarify, just to be clear, I know that there were some federal regulations, like I think on the military as well, like with vaccines. No, no, I just mean like over the broad American population.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, no. All of this was part of a greater narrative of it's your patriotic duty to do distancing. It's your patriotic duty to not give people Covid, et cetera. You're going to kill grandma. Right? This was all part of the kind of greater narrative, and it was very harmful to business. You saw that there was lots of big business winners and a lot of small business losers that came out of COVID 19.

[Tim Pool]

So let me just clarify. This is a GPT generated image based on data, so take it with a massive boulder of salt. But it does correlate with data that I think Andrew has been pointing out that a lot of people pointed out I asked GPT to generate a graph showing real wages adjusted for buying power from 2070 to 2025. You can see that when Covid comes around, it does drop significantly. It increases in the last year, but then in the Biden administration it did drop quite a bit. So real wages, wages may have increased, but buying power decreased. And that's not.

[Andrew Wilson]

And so, so that's, but that's what we're talking about with real wages. Right? It has to be on par with the buying power. That's how we're adjusting for the real wage. So under Trump, real wages went up more than, more than anybody else in like I think like 40 or 50 years.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't know where that.

[Andrew Wilson]

And so the thing is, is like what's, what's really interesting when you look at the, the data set for economics. Like, no, people clearly know that their dollar wasn't going as far. And here's what they know. They know. Under Trump I was doing better. Under Biden I was doing worse. That's all you need. Like you don't need any more than that.

[Josiah]

No.

[Tim Pool]

I do think it's fair to point out that Covid is anomalous and the average person has no frame of reference for what a recovery should or should not be. All that really mattered when it came to the election was that people didn't feel good.

[Josiah]

And listen, that's uncontested. I don't dispute that at all.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't know how to send this to you, but I would love to. I don't know. That is like the opposite of every single source I'm pulling up here that is seeing we've gotten back to inflation adjusted wages higher than they've ever been. So that being like the exact wonky I think might be a.

[Josiah]

But again, I just want to say I'm not contesting what the perception of the economy is. Where I do agree with Luke though is it seems like when you compare us to other nations, how we recover, the soft landing from the pandemic, the fact that we avoided a recession, you know, jobs, not only the bounce back jobs, but also the rate of jobs that increase per month under Biden were even higher than they were under.

[Myron Gaines]

I mean, I don't think we're just reading the fact that we did better than a lot of first world countries when it comes to our even G7.

[Josiah]

Myron, respectfully, I mean like even like Japan. But you said first world. I'm sorry, I thought you said third world.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, we were already on the upper trajectory under Trump before the COVID pandemic happened, all the numbers that most of the Democrats source they sourced when the pandemic came in, the economy was shut down. Before that the economy was skyrocketing. Yes, it was. And again you can look at the real wage.

[Josiah]

Well I don't think he's disputing that.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah I was saying we would never be like let's compare Biden non Covid to Trump. Covid obviously like when you look at end of Obama to Trump a lot of times I'll do those comparisons because Trump just kind of inherited the economy. That was.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, Biden inherited Trump's economy. That's what happened.

[Josiah]

Disagree. Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

During an economic crisis. But yeah every you could pull up metrics and the one that you just pulled up again, I hope you just.

[Tim Pool]

Tell me what it is. I'll google the.

[Luke Beasley]

This one's U.S. news & World Reports. The other one is what's the title.

[Tim Pool]

Of the, of the.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, here, let me can type it.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah. Look I don't think we're disputing that like the US US was doing better than a lot of other countries like our purchasing power, etc.

[Luke Beasley]

American inflation adjusted incomes.

[Josiah]

I hear you.

[Myron Gaines]

I don't think we're disputing. We're not disputing that. Like I see you're making the argument that like hey Joe, Biden's economy isn't as bad as MAGA Republicans think it is. We, we can, we can agree that we're better off than a lot of other countries. I mean Japan is a great example where their yen just fudgeing tanked over the past.

[Josiah]

Doing better than China. I mean doing better.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, I can. We're not disputing that.

[Luke Beasley]

I guess my point is if Biden had done such terrible things 9 trade surplus to spike inflation. Because that was the big argument. Right. Like Biden made bad irresponsible decisions that caused inflation despite. That's the one I'm trying to get to the core of. Because if you agree like yeah he kind of managed things fine and you could say it was because of Trump. It was because whatever. But just acknowledging we got out of it pretty dang well and then you can attribute whatever to credit that for. That's a big difference from the mainstream right wing message which is that Biden messed things up.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. But the problem economically. So the problem here depends on in.

[Myron Gaines]

What regard did he mess things up. Like for me for example foreign policy policy up right. With Ukraine and Russia that actually drove up the cost of food significantly. No one talks about that for obvious reasons, because Ukraine is the breadbasket of Europe. If you strain food in one area, it's going to strain resources in other areas and the price goes up. So I find it interesting because Kamala campaigned on, oh yeah, I'm going to go after the grocery stores for price gouging, etc. But the Democrats created that problem with bad foreign policy, allowing conflict to happen, not keeping Russia in its place. So, you know, I think the issue here is, I see where you're saying like, hey, the economy wasn't as bad given the circumstances. Okay, I can see your perspective on that. But we also got to look at other things like foreign policy we're talking about where conflicts absolutely play into the price of food, the price of goods, energy prices.

[Luke Beasley]

For sure.

[Tim Pool]

On that point. The moment at which Joe Biden's favorability dropped below 50% was the Afghanistan.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, can we read? Just because you pull up. The inflation adjusted median income of U.S. households rebounded last year to roughly its 2019 level, overcoming the biggest price spike in four decades to restore most Americans purchasing power. So just since we put that other one up on screen, I want to make sure we add that to it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, there's no way for me to dive into the details of these numbers.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay.

[Andrew Wilson]

But just probably. But honestly, like, I'm happy to reset this up if you guys want later for like a 1V.

[Tim Pool]

Let's get into the foreign policy aspect of it.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So Joe Biden's favorability, his approval rating, it dropped because of Afghanistan. And during Trump we had the end of isis, we had the Abraham Accords, we had attempts at peace agreements during.

[Josiah]

The, still had the Afghanistan war certainly did.

[Tim Pool]

And it was during Trump's administration the negotiated withdrawal took place.

[Andrew Wilson]

So you can argue both my liberals screamed about it.

[Tim Pool]

Well, you can argue both administrations were involved to some degree, to whatever degree you want to argue. My point is Biden administration has been marked by war and conflict and crisis.

[Luke Beasley]

I just, I think a lot of either, the two main ones being Gaza and Russia's invasion of Ukraine, I think deserve two separate discussions. The Russia one, I'm not compelled at all by the Trump initiated piece because we saw, I mean, we've seen sort of trajectory of Putin's activity that of course he would wait to see how much Trump could, could damage our international alliances and, and, and see the worst of what he could do before invading and the pandemic hits and maybe that delays. I think there was an inevitability to at some point him going for Ukraine So what I care about the most with Biden's response was is he going to be very supportive? Because I do believe being really supportive of Ukraine is, is in our interest.

[Andrew Wilson]

Based on what? What do you think?

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, that's, what's the money.

[Andrew Wilson]

So do you saying, you're saying, oh, it was just inevitable. Like it was inevitable he was gonna. No, that's not inevitable.

[Luke Beasley]

Like, no, I agree.

[Andrew Wilson]

We're even coming up with these just. So what you did is you just give yourself, you just grant yourself the starting position. It was inevitable that eventually Russia, Russia is going to attack Ukraine. It's like, no, that's not inevitable.

[Tim Pool]

Let's get to the meat and potatoes on this one.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm saying watching a couple decades play.

[Tim Pool]

Out, why should we be involved in Ukraine? You said it's in our interest.

[Luke Beasley]

Like I don't think we should get directly militarily involved with Russia.

[Josiah]

Avoid a hot war. We're all in favor of that. Avoid hot war with.

[Luke Beasley]

Avoiding that. But in terms of how much we spend to be, be geopolitically militarily competitive and prepared national security wise against Russia, generally, we're spending trillions and trillions and trillions over the course of decades for that purpose. This is a much more direct way to send what is relatively a small amount of money compared to what we're normally spending on the same cause to oppose the aggression of Russia that I think is destabilizing to the world.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, but you do realize when you, when you guys say we don't want a hot war in Russia, that if you're trading and supporting and funding the enemy of Russia that they're in a war with.

[Josiah]

Sure.

[Andrew Wilson]

That drastically increases the chances that you get attacked by that nation trying to cut off the supply, the endless supply of funding to the nation they're fighting with. That's just common war doctrine. Of course that increases the chances of a hot war war. Okay. It's silly. The containment method is not good. And ultimately Russia is going to beat.

[Josiah]

Does it work though? Like, because to me it's like there are two major camps. Right. You say containment. The other one appeasement. Do you think appeasement works?

[Andrew Wilson]

I think that ultimately in this case what's going to happen is this. Russia is going to take their objective. They're going to get a large portion of the Ukraine, not all of it, but they're going to get a large.

[Myron Gaines]

Portion already control almost all.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. The chances, the chances are they don't. That they don't is not good. And our generals Predict it themselves, at least. Donbass region. Right.

[Josiah]

Can you clarify just real quick, do you think it will be because Trump forces a settlement like that where basically where he freezes things, or do you think that even if Trump doesn't.

[Andrew Wilson]

No matter. Well, no, no, no intervention at this point would actually probably be better to negotiate this settlement rather than the lives continue to get lost until Russia gets it anyway. Now, if the Ukraine wants to fight to the last, there's not much anybody can do about it. It. But Zelensky has, I think, somewhat signaled that he's ready for some kind of ceasefire and because they're running out of troops. I mean, this is the problem. They're running out of troops.

[Myron Gaines]

They're already using the ruble and easily.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, I mean, they're drafting.

[Myron Gaines]

Done.

[Andrew Wilson]

It's drafting 60 year olds now. I mean, they're gonna, they're gonna run out of soldiers.

[Tim Pool]

And women.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, and women. So. And. But they can't send them to the front line because they just get killed.

[Josiah]

Or don't tell Pete Hegset or anything.

[Andrew Wilson]

You know, but anyway, don't tell him. The point is, he's like, they're going to, they're going to take this region. Region. No matter what, this is going to happen. This, though, when you talk about containment of. What's that?

[Luke Beasley]

Aren't you saying there's an inevitability to Putin wanting that land? Like I said?

[Andrew Wilson]

No, I'm saying that once he invaded, it's inevitable he wins it. Not that it was inevitable he would invade.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't know. I mean, I agree that if, if Ukraine were to say, all right, we're not, we don't. We're not in it for this. We don't want it then I'm not saying push them to keep going, but as long as they're saying we're going to fight, fight, I'd rather them have a better shot to do more damage than, than the war goes on. But they're just getting crushed more.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, but the reason why they.

[Andrew Wilson]

I remember that's a bloodthirsty support them.

[Myron Gaines]

Like we, it's the same thing with Israel. Like, the reason why they speak that they act the way that they do is because they know that we're going to give them money. So if we had told them no more aid, it would force them.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. What do you think Zelensky is going to do? Go ahead and be like we're about to surrender? That would be terrible rhetoric. Of course not.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I understand, but I'm saying That in the beginning of this, there was also the belief that there was inevitability to, to like two weeks or a month or whatever. All of Ukraine's done and we've seen that hasn't been the case.

[Josiah]

That is true. Like my, my. And again, on my channel, I talk like US Domestic politics, so maybe I'm missing something. But my understanding was during the initial invasion, everyone from far right experts to I believe Hassan Piker was like, this is going to be over in like a week.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. There was.

[Myron Gaines]

Only reason it didn't get is because of the enormous amount of aid and money and how like, literally, like, the only reason Ukraine hasn't been taken is because of us.

[Josiah]

Like, I don't, I don't think they.

[Myron Gaines]

Would have been taken in a few days. And like, like Putin is like, you know, being nice about it. He could have just airstriked them to fucking.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, but what I want to know is this, what do we get from our riches? And are we sacrificing lives in vain for our riches? That's what I want to know. And so the, the answer to this is like, you don't know and you don't know. And so the thing is, is like, if it is the case that all of our generals project, the chances that this region is going to go to Russia anyway and we can save thousands or tens of thousands of lives in this conflict, it seems wiser to me to just back away from funding this whole nightmare.

[Myron Gaines]

And the main. We just did everything to, to not tell Americans the truth that they were losing. This is why, like, you look at, like, someone, like people that were reporting, right, that were saying, look, Russia's going to win this, like Gonzalo Lair or Jackson Engel, etc, they're getting banned, censored, etc, it's not until years later, the news is finally coming out. Yeah, you know, we're losing.

[Josiah]

Yeah, they did kill Lira.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, Lira was killed.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, he got killed. But like, when he, when he had his YouTube channel, he was putting out this information, he was shadow banned. Jackson Hinkle banned him. And they're like, oh, these guys just Russian propagandists. Well, they're kind of telling the truth when it comes to this conflict. Russia is winning. Then it took years for the mainstream media to say, you know what? Yeah, they are kind of winning. We should probably maybe have a ceasefire. No, it took years for the American public.

[Luke Beasley]

Those were the guys we're talking about that kept falsely predicting it's going to be over here. And then here and then here. And they kept being wrong.

[Myron Gaines]

But they were correct. But they were correct that Russia was decimated.

[Luke Beasley]

People don't.

[Myron Gaines]

They're correct about that.

[Luke Beasley]

That's. I mean, you.

[Myron Gaines]

Russia, that's important. That's relevant to America to fund the war is being.

[Josiah]

Wasn't Russia's voluntary. Definitely up. Like, that's.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. Look at how many people are dying in the Russian military, which is tragic, but how much their military is losing as well.

[Myron Gaines]

But my point is.

[Andrew Wilson]

But they can't change it.

[Luke Beasley]

I mean. Yeah, that's what Russia's been doing.

[Andrew Wilson]

Russia.

[Tim Pool]

I think Russia won all Russia did.

[Andrew Wilson]

I mean, they want to tell the Germans with a million peasants, they don't care. They'll continue to throw soldiers into the meat grinder until they get their objective. They don't care.

[Tim Pool]

Famously, Russia's strategy is referred to as the Zap Branigan strategy, where he sends wave after wave of his own men.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, like battle. Exactly. Until the enemy runs out of ammo. When they, like, literally.

[Josiah]

They're not yet.

[Myron Gaines]

When they first invaded in early 2022. I remember watching Gonzale talk about this. He's like, yeah, they're gonna. They're gonna win, etc. They're winning. And he was getting shadow banned. The American media wasn't reporting it because they didn't want the American public to know. Know that, look, we're funding this war and we're losing. It wasn't. It took years. The American public finally figure out they're losing.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm willing to have a nuanced conversation about the. How long we should be willing to do this. How inevitable is it? But that point's not true at all. The overwhelming mainstream media consensus was that if Russia invades, it's all over. And then it was like, whoa, Ukraine now. Years. They've.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah. But they were holding back the figures and not being honest about them losing.

[Tim Pool]

Ukraine lost.

[Luke Beasley]

I mean, they didn't.

[Tim Pool]

But they did. Do you see the map in front of you?

[Luke Beasley]

Look at how much of Ukraine is not taking.

[Josiah]

Look at all that non red Ukraine.

[Andrew Wilson]

The objective wasn't to take Ukraine, though. That wasn't. Right.

[Tim Pool]

What was Russia stated objective?

[Luke Beasley]

So if all they're interested in is the eastern portion, it's the land bridge to crime. They've been.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, they've taken it.

[Andrew Wilson]

They've taken it.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. So we're not.

[Myron Gaines]

What if that was their purpose?

[Tim Pool]

Of course that was the problem. The Russian objective was attained a couple years ago ago.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't know how. Is there still fighting again?

[Andrew Wilson]

Because they get more.

[Josiah]

Wait, why is there still fighting if they achieve?

[Tim Pool]

Because Ukraine wants the land right there and the US Is trying to get.

[Josiah]

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying, that then you can't. I take your point. That they have the land seizures that they sought. But it's clearly not secure. There's a reason the conflict's still going on. Russia is, is suffering casualties.

[Tim Pool]

So let's clarify.

[Josiah]

From Ukrainian resistance, Russia has secured its.

[Tim Pool]

Objective and is now seeking to defend its position. Position.

[Josiah]

I still know if like secure, because again, it doesn't seem particularly secure. But like.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no. This, this map shows that Russia has, has, has taken control of the Donbass region.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. You're saying, look, that's, it's, it's not secure if they're still fighting a war of it. That's fair point.

[Tim Pool]

What I mean to say is they are in control of this territory as per the battle maps that are presented by the BBC and by.

[Luke Beasley]

We agree with that.

[Tim Pool]

And so of course with you, if the US Wasn't supporting Ukraine, the war would be over.

[Luke Beasley]

Yes, that I disagree with.

[Josiah]

Well, well, I mean, they would still, they would still be resisting, but I think it, the resistance would be, based on my limited understanding, minuscule in comparison.

[Andrew Wilson]

They don't have the, they would be.

[Myron Gaines]

Able to do anything, you know what I mean?

[Tim Pool]

But they would.

[Josiah]

I, I think they're also receiving, Aren't they receiving even more from European allies? Again, this is where a lot of aid.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josiah]

Even outside the United States, my understanding is like, they're getting a lot of. From the United Kingdom, European Union, everywhere.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, so, so because if those other countries, like, if Ukraine sees this as an ultimate, you know, fight to the death for their homeland, and then other European countries feel threatened by Russia doing this and they're going to be supporting Ukraine somewhat already and Ukraine's going to be fighting regardless of if we send aid. I'd rather them have our aid and do more damage to Russia and maybe hold back some Russian aggression further than standing back and Ukraine gets even further.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. So basically that's a very bloodthirsty position for a progressive, isn't it? So the idea here is, is I want American funding to go to Ukraine so that they can spend their soldiers right. In what looks to be a fairly fruitless battle long term, to get slaughtered over and over and over again so that you may not have to deal with the Russkies later. And it's like, here's the thing. You're going to have to deal with them later. And here's why. They're a nuclear armed nation. Did you forget about that part? They have nuclear bombs and intercontinental ballistic missiles and it's like you're gonna have to deal with them whether you like it or not. This idea of the ground pounders in Ukraine who are battling it out in the trenches, all that is actually beside the point. They're a nuclear armed nation capable of intercontinental ballistic missile technology. It's like you're gonna have to deal.

[Luke Beasley]

With them directly, involve ourselves militarily with them because it would be nuclear war. But.

[Andrew Wilson]

Right. Suspend other people's.

[Luke Beasley]

You're saying blood. You're saying bloodthirsty. My point is, is as long as Ukraine would be fighting, our aid can prevent more deaths.

[Tim Pool]

Just.

[Andrew Wilson]

Just how is our aid preventing more death?

[Luke Beasley]

Defend themselves more effectively.

[Myron Gaines]

Our aid is the reason why they.

[Luke Beasley]

Even have equipment that allows them to not even have to send troops like whatever Biden recently sort of sent.

[Tim Pool]

Let's clarify something. It was the US that sunk the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. You can say a Ukraine pulled the trigger. But Russia doesn't see it that way. Way. It can be the perspective of the narrative in the United States that the US is not involved. Russia does not see it that way. The US provided missiles like attackams, provided the training and the equipment and then asked the guy standing next to them special forces in Ukraine press that button to blow up the Russian flagship. Russia doesn't see that as Ukrainian attack.

[Josiah]

I don't.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, they do because they're not attacking. They're not like Russia.

[Tim Pool]

Russia. State officials and media have already said we are at war with NATO.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, they always believe that. But I agree. They do believe that we. I agree with all that. I just don't think.

[Andrew Wilson]

Right.

[Luke Beasley]

So let's put that we're actually going.

[Tim Pool]

To get into conflict with no courtroom would you be able to claim that you were not involved in the murder of a person when you handed the gun to the guy, asked him to do it and told him to pull the trigger.

[Luke Beasley]

We gave him the equipment.

[Andrew Wilson]

Of course.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm with you.

[Tim Pool]

So that means the US is, is literally at war with Russia.

[Luke Beasley]

And then I disagree that we technically are neither.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, we're not legally at war with Russia because Congress doesn't declare we weren't.

[Andrew Wilson]

Legally at war with Vietnam either as a police action. There was no declaration of we're going.

[Luke Beasley]

To have to sacrifice American soldiers to invade Russia or Russia is going to do that to Us, there's not really a threat.

[Andrew Wilson]

First of all, Luke, I think it's very naive on your. On your part to pretend that there's not American special forces who are in Ukraine right now doing all sorts of sabotage mission training ops, all sorts of things. Like, it's totally naive to believe that in every other theater. Every other theater that we're involved in where we're training. Training people in advisory roles.

[Tim Pool]

I think.

[Luke Beasley]

You think you're debating with someone.

[Andrew Wilson]

We're always.

[Luke Beasley]

That's not what I'm claiming.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, you say you. You make the claim, like, no boots on the ground. No boots on the. It's like there's already boots on the ground, though we already have. I guarantee we already have special forces boots on the ground.

[Luke Beasley]

If you don't hear what I'm saying.

[Myron Gaines]

I think foreign wars in general, like, are a big waste of money. It's not a W for us, it's a L. Here's. Let's just be honest here. This whole situation with Russia and aggression containing it is to fund the military industrial complex. We need to be able to rationalize and justify our armament. So we need to go ahead and have this conflict with Russia when in reality we need to, you know, figure out some type of diplomatic middle ground with them versus having an issue with a nuclear armed.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. If a capable.

[Myron Gaines]

Think peace is the way to go. But, you know, we want to sit here and substantiate our military industrial complex, which is problematic.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay. Russia is so strange. Russia was the one who violated peace. We had peace, and then Russia made it no longer peace. And then they were fighting and we went. Went. I mean, a little bit before.

[Myron Gaines]

We were promising not to expand NATO for decades, and we keep doing it.

[Luke Beasley]

Actually, we never formally promised that, but formally.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a. It was a memo. It wasn't a treaty.

[Josiah]

Yeah, well, well, number that. Number one. But number two, like, was that anyone. We didn't invite Ukraine into NATO. Is that what you guys talked about? Like, there was no.

[Luke Beasley]

Before they invaded Ukraine specifically said, we're not going to be.

[Josiah]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

Like there's. We're not entering NATO. And United States was like, yeah, it's not happening. And Russia still made.

[Andrew Wilson]

It is not.

[Tim Pool]

Well, let's clarify. The issue wasn't NATO. The issue was the European Union Union. And so Vladimir Putin went to Ukraine and said, if you. If you open up your. Your borders to trade with Europe and we have open borders with you, European goods will flood into Russia and it'll destabilize our economy. So you have to choose either Europe or Russia. The issue was Ukraine largely was like, you mean we get access to the Schengen zone and European trade, but we lose Russia, Europe, Russia got pissed and said, no, no, no, no, no, no, hold on. We need Sevastopol, we need Crimea. We can't lose that to the West. Now you can make the arguments about what you think happened with the Osking of Yanukovych. A lot of people believe that it was U.S. aid in the CIA that went in to help foment these groups that ultimately stormed his mansion and ousted the guy, forced him to flee to. To Russia. But this bubbling conflict in the country and political destabilization was definitely both Russia and NATO. Western forces vying through political means to gain control of Russia, of Ukraine.

[Andrew Wilson]

Sorry.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I'm with you. I think that all that dynamic is. Is very important. And I don't think Russia should have a say in.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, so it's not like they just invaded out of nowhere. You know what I mean? I think it's important to understand like what.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, that is, it's what you were just like, you kind of just off immediately on your own position right away.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't even know what my own position is. I'm saying all of those things contribute. That doesn't make it justified. Someone can be.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, you said there was peace and then Russia violated it and then backed off in the position the second it was clarified.

[Luke Beasley]

What are you talking.

[Josiah]

I don't think that was a contradiction. Is you can say. Okay, you could say that our position.

[Myron Gaines]

I think me and Andrew's position is we need to stop sending aid to Ukraine and end this.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, we got your position.

[Myron Gaines]

That's our.

[Luke Beasley]

That's our violate peace for a reason. He had a reason. I just don't think it's a justified reason. We shouldn't have started a war over it.

[Tim Pool]

Let's ask a simple question.

[Luke Beasley]

You acknowledge there's a difference between what you just said, Andrew.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, no, you. Your implication was everyone was minding their own business and getting along fine. And then the Russians moved into the Ukraine. Right, Right.

[Luke Beasley]

Everything was perfect.

[Tim Pool]

Let's ask the question that Myron brought up. Should we cut off the aid and just say no more involvement in Ukraine?

[Myron Gaines]

Zero.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I don't think so.

[Myron Gaines]

I think until aid. Stop it and end the fight. End the fight now. Like, we need to end it now.

[Luke Beasley]

If. If Ukraine wanted to end the fight, then we could figure out what.

[Andrew Wilson]

Who cares?

[Myron Gaines]

Hold on, hold on. Let me. Let me say this.

[Luke Beasley]

They're the ones fighting. We're not going to.

[Myron Gaines]

We're fighting the conflict. We're giving them all the aid. We dictate what happens, happens. I find it interesting how we let these other countries, like Israel, Ukraine, dictate our foreign policy. We give you the money, we tell.

[Luke Beasley]

You what it is, that it's not true. Ukraine would.

[Myron Gaines]

Or, or we tell Zelensky, hey, dumbass, we put you in power, you do what we say.

[Josiah]

I just want.

[Tim Pool]

Let me ask you guys these questions. This question, wild. What is the strategic, economic or otherwise benefit of our involvement in Ukraine?

[Josiah]

My understanding is zero. That. Well, go ahead, fuck you.

[Myron Gaines]

08.

[Josiah]

But also zero benefit.

[Tim Pool]

The best answer of the debate so.

[Josiah]

Far, Fuck you or zero. My understanding is this should not be the primary motivator, and I'm not sure that it is. But if you take just morality out of the equation, looking at Russia as a geopolitical rival, they have been weakened as a consequence of this. Now, you can say that they're going to win, and certainly they have still the stronger military, but they are not in a better position now than they were prior to the war, number one. Number two, we consider Ukraine an ally. We consider them somebody that we have diplomatic and economic incentives for them to succeed. Also, by definition, the European Union as well. So it seems like we have diplomatic and economic reasons and to try to weaken Russia, number one. But I just want to be clear, at least for me, and I'm sure Luke would agree, if Ukraine did not want to fight. I don't think we should be forcing or coercing Ukraine to fight if they decide, like, you know what. But it. We just, We've, we've resisted. Let's have either a settlement or just wave the white flag all the way around. I mean, I think it would suck that we were empowering and rewarding Putin. But, like, at that point, yes, the, the aid should be cut off, but my understanding is they still want to fight and they just need help.

[Tim Pool]

So who is they, though?

[Josiah]

Ukrainian people.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Josiah]

Isn't there?

[Myron Gaines]

And the Ukrainian government, Zelensky wants to fight?

[Tim Pool]

Well, I believe that largely the population has either resisted conscription or fled the country.

[Andrew Wilson]

Country, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Not. Not the majority, I'm saying. But.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, I'm sure there's people doing that. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, they're drafting women and elderly.

[Andrew Wilson]

You cannot, I don't think.

[Josiah]

I'm sorry. You're right. To be clear, I'm sure the number of people who want to pick up a gun and fight Russian soldiers, I'm sure that that Number.

[Myron Gaines]

And that's what matters, not the puppet that we put.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, no.

[Tim Pool]

Let's just say government of a small group of people. Do you guys believe that they, the small government, this limited amount of people, people have a right to force the people of Ukraine through conscription to go fight a war?

[Luke Beasley]

No, I'm saying. Well, I mean, yeah, you. If they have enough drafts, they could probably draft people. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So the question becomes, when you say Ukraine wants to fight, you're talking about the oligarchs and the politicians.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, what their action.

[Luke Beasley]

Wait, wait, just let me specify. If public opinion was against it, I would say, well, and democratically should listen to the public opinion.

[Tim Pool]

The government of Ukraine has largely been described for decades as an oligarchy. You guys know how the oligarchy.

[Andrew Wilson]

And corrupt. Super corrupt.

[Luke Beasley]

Let me answer your question.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, sure, I'm making a point about the structure of the government. That's why I asked the question. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the general story is that you've got these Soviet factories, for instance, they run up the chain of command through the Communist Party. That's how the Soviet Union ran. When the Soviet Union collapses and Ukraine effectively becomes its own state, where does this factory answer to? Now that the party has been shattered, what happens was there's one story of a guy, one of the oligarchs got a couple of his buddies with some guns, walked into the factory and said, who's in charge? And I'm the foreman. I said, okay, we're gonna take care of everything for you. We're the bosses. This is our factory now. And they say, well, what does that mean? It means all the supplies you need to come in and make the factory work, we will take care of. But you answer to me and the worker said, that sounds great to us actually, because we don't know who we're supposed to answer to. This created a massive wealth gap in Ukraine for decades, where you had a very small group of ultra wealthy individuals. One of the most interesting things I found about Kiev is that the price of a condo or a house was comparable to a house or a condo in the United States, despite the fact that these people were making about 400 bucks a month. So with the government being largely oligarchic, the question of whether or not Ukraine wants to fight this war is an interesting one. And I'm curious what you guys think.

[Luke Beasley]

Yes. So back to just public opinion. If there was an overwhelming opposition within Ukraine among Ukrainian citizens for continuing this war, then I think that they should resolve it because Democracy.

[Josiah]

Yeah. I mean, again, this is not, this is not something I focus on on my channel. So for all I know there's compelling evidence that the, the public sentiment is it. Let's just again, either negotiated settlement or concede the land.

[Tim Pool]

25% of the population has been displaced with 7 million as refugees fleeing the country.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, man. By the way, they don't want the war again. It's American media that controls it. Like, yeah, we're going to go ahead and fight this war. We got Zelensky and who's obviously like a puppet of the United States. It's the United States saying we need to weaken Russia. Any cost. If it means Ukrainians die and we spend a bunch of money, we're going to do it. The people don't want the war.

[Andrew Wilson]

This brings up, brings up a more compelling question I'd like you to answer to though, Luke, which is this.

[Myron Gaines]

Wow.

[Andrew Wilson]

Do you think ultimately that Russia likely is going to win the conflict with Ukraine and get at least a large portion of, of Ukrainian land? Do you think ultimately that's going to happen? Then the entailment actually of your position is this when you say weaken Russia, that you want the United States to fund an oligarchical government which will continue to draft the citizenry of the Ukraine to go die to weaken people you don't like.

[Myron Gaines]

Exactly.

[Andrew Wilson]

That is the actual. Hang on, I just want to make sure. What did I just say there? That's incorrect.

[Luke Beasley]

All of it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, which thing.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, so I keep saying, and as I'm pulling up polling myself, it's been, been pretty quickly dropping year by year public support for this. And so as we get less and less support among Ukraine, because I'm not saying they should die for us if they don't want to and as want.

[Andrew Wilson]

To die for us. Bro, nobody wants to die for us.

[Luke Beasley]

Some of them are willing to die for their own country and I'm for their country.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, they're doing at least not 10 million of them if they're of the country.

[Josiah]

I'm sorry, yeah, moving on. That's what he meant. Like he's, he's saying you're saying you.

[Andrew Wilson]

Want American treasure to prop this up in order to assist these war fighters for your interest to go die on behalf of an oligarchical nation which is drafting their own citizenry. You wanna pay for that because it weakens a geopolitical rival of this.

[Josiah]

I think you correct me if I'm wrong. Cause I know this is my position. I think the position is we should be Continuing to support an ally as long as they want to resist an invader, a foreign invader, which incidentally also benefits us directly because it weakens a foreign adversary, that same invader. For me, the calculus changes tremendously if it turns out that, you know, that Zelensky is forcing the Ukrainian people to resist. Like they don't want. They don't want to resist.

[Myron Gaines]

And that's our.

[Josiah]

No, he's, He's. I understand that he is drafting people.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. What's a draft?

[Myron Gaines]

He's kidnapping them.

[Josiah]

He's.

[Myron Gaines]

He's literally kidnapping of age men and taking them and forcing them to be in the military.

[Tim Pool]

There are people who are trying to leave as refugees who are grabbed and then dragged back kicking and screaming.

[Myron Gaines]

The people don't want this is what I'm trying to say.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. So then we would.

[Tim Pool]

These videos of this stuff.

[Josiah]

Well, no, we agree then.

[Tim Pool]

You see the videos of the women being captured too. It's nuts.

[Andrew Wilson]

Let's just start with the fundamental question. What is a draft?

[Josiah]

You are. You are taking of age people and forcing.

[Andrew Wilson]

Compelling them into service.

[Josiah]

Compelling them. Yes. To fight.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. So the thing is, like, when you say, if it turns out this government is forcing people, like, what are you talking about? The entailment immediately of I'm drafting your ass is that you're being forced to go fight when ordinarily you wouldn't. Why wouldn't you just have a volunteer armed forces instead of a draft? Because you're compelling a populace or a group of people who doesn't want to fight to go do it anyway.

[Josiah]

No, I understand. So let me ask you if you recognize any distinction between this, because perhaps this is distinction without a difference. Do you recognize that there are people who do not want Russia to conquer Ukrainian territory or Ukraine writ large, but are not prepared to pick up a gun and voluntarily attack?

[Andrew Wilson]

Of course. Sure. Yeah, sure.

[Josiah]

Is that a distinction worth noting? Because what I'm referring to is the former, not the latter. I totally concede that based on reports there have. There's been drafts and conscriptions for months.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, years.

[Josiah]

Okay, but that, My understanding is that. That the public sentiment of the people in Ukraine is that they don't want Russia to take this territory. If that's wrong, then my interest in funding the war, whatever it is, or propping up Ukrainian resistance to Russia plummets dramatically.

[Andrew Wilson]

But wait a second. What you're talking about here still brings up another question, which is, let's just say it's like 55% or 60% of the nation who is who wants this war. Right. They want to keep, they want to keep themselves sovereign. Let's just say that that's all the.

[Josiah]

Public, a small majority or like a.

[Andrew Wilson]

Small majority or whatever. They can institute a draft against the minority who can fight which is going to be kids, mostly young men. Right. That's going to be your, your war fighter age 18 to 25. Obviously they're going to be outnumbered by other people so they can compel their citizenry to go fight even because they don't have to. Right, right. But ordinarily they would not be able to do this nor do this compelling service unless they were enabled by the treasury of a large first world nation which is supporting it. So it seems like you have a moral quagmire here. A big problem.

[Josiah]

Oh there is. I got it.

[Andrew Wilson]

A big problem on your end of thinking that hey, we can use this as a buffer against our geopolitical enemy regardless of who it.

[Myron Gaines]

I think it's also very important to know Eastern Ukraine is ethnic Russian mostly and a lot of them do want to be a part of Russia.

[Tim Pool]

So I do want to move on. Unless you want to make a quick final point, guys.

[Myron Gaines]

Sure. We could talk Israel.

[Josiah]

No, I think as far as Israel, again, I'll totally concede that this is a very morally ambiguous conflict that you pointed out that even if a majority of Ukrainian citizens want to resist Russia in the sense that they don't want Russia to come take over, not the ones fighting. I think any draft or conscription at the bare minimum and I'm not a like a debate philosopher like you are so like. But is morally ambiguous to say the least. I just years old. I just think that as long my understanding is Ukraine wants to resist Russia and I don't have any issue with the United States continuing to supply the means by which so let's, let's, let's move the premise. If the premise I'll wrap it if the premise is wrong, I would be happy to revisit.

[Tim Pool]

Let's talk about Israel.

[Luke Beasley]

Can I. My closing is not controversial. Another reason I agree public support is dropping. It's kind of complicated for what they support, what type of peace deal they support, what's being taken, all that. And I have the same stances from when we started based on public sentiment and I understand what you're saying. I'll note that I also think for leverage to get a better deal for Ukraine, it's important that the United States stands like we're going to support them in you know, to infinity and beyond. So that Russia doesn't feel like, wait, if we just wait out American support for Ukraine, we can take even more. Right. So that they believe. Gosh, we're just. We're stopping up at this line.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, let's talk about Israel. So a couple days ago, it was announced that there was a ceasefire that was reached. We're still waiting to see if it happens. There's going to be a vote in Israel. There's contention over who is responsible. Biden says it was his diplomacy and his plan. However, some foreign policy experts, including the Atlantic, wrote that Trump is the one who pushed this over the limit. So there's a lot of questions pertaining to Israel. Should we be involved in this conflict? Should we continue to fund them? What degree of support for Palestine do you guys have and how do you view the war? And I don't know. Who wants to jump in first?

[Myron Gaines]

Who wants to go first?

[Luke Beasley]

First?

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, I'll just. I'll put my position out there. I don't think that we should be supporting either the Palestinians nor the Israelis in this conflict. Never, never have thought so. It's a terrible entanglement for us. We can't win regardless of which side we were to back. We can't win if we back Palestinians, not in the court of public opinion. The entire Arab world would love us, whereas most of the Western world would hate us. If we back Israel, the exact opposite, most of the Arab world will absolutely hate us. And there will be blowback and consequences from that, too. It's another great reason why our foreign policy should be one of disentangling ourselves from these foreign conflicts, and especially in Israel. We need to back away from that conflict as fast as possible. And that's always been the case. It's the first time I've ever heard progressives actually say something like that. So I'll give my stance for that. I'll give them some credit.

[Myron Gaines]

It no foreign aid to Israel. I think Israel's caused the United States a lot of problems. They run our foreign policy. Every single. If you look at every single terrorist.

[Andrew Wilson]

Why did you soy face, Tim? Why did you soy face?

[Tim Pool]

200,000 Ukrainian troops deserted.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

AP reporting. The official number is 100,000 charged and estimates of upwards of 200,000 people have deserted.

[Myron Gaines]

Why? They were kidnapping people.

[Tim Pool]

I don't want to get back on Ukraine, but when I saw that, I went home.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, dude, crap. Yeah. But no, it's crazy. With. With. That's why I'm saying the conflict in Ukraine is a waste of time. But, yeah, when it comes to Israel. I don't see any strategic advantage the United States enjoys from supporting Israel. There's virtually none. Oh, we have all.

[Andrew Wilson]

We're.

[Myron Gaines]

There are eyes and ears in the Middle East. Well, the Middle east wouldn't hate us if we did not support Israel. So, yeah, I think when it comes to Israel and our support of them, the only reason we do is because we have very rich lobbyists that make sure that we do and our support of Israel needs to drop off.

[Tim Pool]

Don't tell me you guys are going to support Israel. Know.

[Josiah]

So number one, I think you asked.

[Luke Beasley]

About the potential piece. We're going to have to see how it's implemented, if it works. Because even immediately it was sort of.

[Josiah]

Is this Netanyahu delayed the vote go through.

[Luke Beasley]

I think they ended up voting today. But. And then the next. Because a part of the deal is that later parts of the deal are going to be negotiated later. So seeing how all that plays out. But the fighting, stopping, the dying stage stopping the carnage stopping is obviously good. The Interestingly, I've seen some people on the left not acknowledge at all what you're talking about with the Trump envoy's role in this. Josiah and I both said we. Did we cover this? No, you.

[Josiah]

You covered it.

[Luke Beasley]

I haven't three days for us. It's obviously silly to not acknowledge at all the months of negotiations and the deal that's been constructed under the Biden administration. Biden's still the president. So if you, if you're giving credit it that would. Some would lie there. But I acknowledge that the bipartisan presence in these negotiations adding to hey, it's not just us. You can't wait out the clock on, on Biden, Netanyahu and, you know, Hamas. Trump is also saying the same united voice about what we're going to. What's going to happen here. And that united front, I do think was powerful. And with all my feelings that you've heard throughout this show about Trump, I'd give him or his envoy. Steve. Steve Witkoff.

[Josiah]

Yeah. Real estate guy. No 100%. Like, I don't want to put the cart before the horse because again, foreign policy, not my area of expertise to the extent I have any. My understanding was there have been like.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, even experts get it wrong constantly.

[Josiah]

Well, and. But haven't there been like, ceasefires negotiated or talks? We got a ceasefire and then it didn't happen.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Josiah]

So I'm with Luke. Like you gotta wait and see. But I am happy to give Trump a lot of the credit here. Some of the credit Here because it was bipartisan effort. It was Biden's deal. My understanding of the framework of the deal and Trump left them no safe harbor. He was like, you take this deal because you're not getting. I want this done before Inauguration Day.

[Tim Pool]

I completely agree with you. Trump is the best. He's the greatest president right here.

[Josiah]

I'm gonna withdraw that. Fuck you. That I gave to you, and I'm gonna toss it your way. All right, so wait, what is your.

[Myron Gaines]

Guys stance on Israel though, and support though? I see that you guys agree with the deal, which I, you know, it's good that there is a ceasefire. I agree. But I think in general, our aid of Israel has created a lot of problems for the United States.

[Luke Beasley]

I think in general, throughout the conflict, there's a lot, lots of times and reasons to be supporting Israel. But it by. I think what we're learning a little bit through the end of this process is Biden should have done a lot more leveraging, thus threatening, withdrawing and potentially withdrawing aid to get a better resolution earlier. And the fact that that didn't happen, I think is, is a stain.

[Josiah]

I'm, I'm uncomfortable. I'm just going to say as a general proposition, and I'm not sure there's any nation this applies to except Israel. I'm uncomfortable with the notion of unconditional support to any ally. And I feel like even more like in the United Kingdom or even Ukraine. I feel like, with like Israel gets a blank check from the United States. As far as, like, that makes me incredibly.

[Myron Gaines]

You shouldn't be. They have nuclear weapons. We shouldn't be giving it off of that.

[Tim Pool]

I kind of feel like there's a large, largely, I don't want to say complete agreement, but large agreement over we should be funding these wars. Trump did help get this past the line. I think this has been like the.

[Andrew Wilson]

Easiest subject for Nobody likes ap.

[Tim Pool]

Like, who would have thought Israel was the easiest subject for this debate? Everyone's kind of like, yeah, you know.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, I think it's the, the, the whole support of Israel. One thing I've noticed is that whether left or right, both people oppose Israel for different reasons. On the left, it tends to be for more humanitarian reasons. On the right, it's more for they influence our foreign policy. And this is a problematic economic too. Yeah. Economically as well. So, you know, I think that's why the ADL is rallying so hard. Like, we need to stop this blah, blah. Jonathan Greenblatt was literally in Israel talking about we need some type of sophisticated situation where we stop these dissenters of Israel like we did with the Hezbollah Pedro attack. And I'm like, holy, this guy's over there. He's an American citizen. Right. Allegedly in a foreign land talking about how we need to police language in the United States. That's crazy. But that's what they do.

[Tim Pool]

Let's, we don't, we have about a half an hour. So I do want to make sure we get into the harder culture, culture war issues. We talked about Trump as a person, actions. He's, he's taken. We talked about the 19th.

[Josiah]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So let's, let's, let's start here. And I'm going to kick it off with something that's, that's, that's rather speculative. But we saw the overturn of Roe v. Wade. The argument largely from the Supreme Court is like, what are we doing here? Right. They seem to take this position that this is not an answer for, this is not a question for the Supreme Court. Court. Let's start at the states. I believe there's a strong possibility in this next coming Trump administration. We see the overturning of Obergefell, which.

[Josiah]

Is the 2015 case which codified gay.

[Tim Pool]

Marriage, basically required all the states to recognize that if a gay marriage had existed and they moved into the state, they have to be recognized.

[Josiah]

Yeah, right.

[Tim Pool]

I think that elections have consequences of which one was not directly, but with this structure of the Supreme Court, it seems likely that we're going to see a massive cultural shift. I think it's probable that we do have a case, I believe that's going through now. I forgot which one it is that could see gender identity removed as a protected class. I also think the Supreme Court may likely, if challenged, or I should say if a challenge is presented, overturn gay marriage. And I'm curious what our non liberal friends think, because largely it's conservatives aren't going out there and making a principal issue that gay marriage should be ended. But I think they probably support the end of gay marriage.

[Myron Gaines]

I'll go first on this then, Andrea, because I know you have more nuance. Mine is very simple. People gay should be able to have civil unions, not gay marriage. It's a religious sacri. Then, you know, obviously we all know the Abrahamic religions forbid homosexuality, so I don't think that they should have the ability to marry, but they should have all the civil liberties and protections that come from marriage. But the title itself needs to be changed. I also think that gay marriage is kind of a slippery slope. That's a lot of allowed a lot of sexual degeneracy to kind of flourish. Right. Whether it's the 99 genders, all the other problems that we have have with the drag queens, etc. I understand that it's a small minority transit represent 1%. But it's. It's been problematic. Gay marriage has absolutely allowed that to flourish.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, let me first my position and.

[Myron Gaines]

Then you give your position and I know, yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

So anyway.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, stop, stop, Andrew.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, just stop, Luke.

[Luke Beasley]

You've said that every time.

[Andrew Wilson]

Calm down, Luke.

[Luke Beasley]

I thought.

[Andrew Wilson]

Calm down.

[Myron Gaines]

Let him give your position.

[Andrew Wilson]

And then you can literally say hostilities. I'll go first, then Andrew. Calm down, Luke.

[Luke Beasley]

There we go.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'm. Remember how Tim said I'm interested to hear from the non liberals, their position. That's not. Are you a non liberal?

[Luke Beasley]

I just.

[Tim Pool]

He's going to say it's a libertarian. Stop talking.

[Andrew Wilson]

Stop talking. Luke. Luke, stop talking.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, okay, guys.

[Myron Gaines]

And then you can refute it. Luke, I know you disagree with us.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't actually care to go right now. I'm just curious like why you're this wound up.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, guys.

[Andrew Wilson]

The only person.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, guys.

[Tim Pool]

The reason I asked the non liberals is because they're going to present the. The argument that is outside the current standards. It is currently the standard that Obergefell is up to.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. So marriage is only as useful as it is recognized. And the state cannot force people to recognize marriage. They can't do it. People's purview of marriage is that it's between men and women. There's a reproductive status which occurs with it and that it's a institution which is sacramental through religion. This is the purview of most people who still identify in this country, by the way. The majority still identify as Christian, like it or not, they still do. And so marriage is only as useful as it's recognized. We've had gay marriage now for a while and it's still not recognized. The truth is that Christians still don't recognize it. They still don't consider it to be valid. They may say, you're married, the state can imbue you with marriage. And you can even have polls where conservatives say, you know what, fine, whatever, Right. But they themselves, they don't recognize it as being valid. So I think it's completely fine for the Supreme Court to say, look, this is invalid. This should be a religious institution. We should take it out of the state's hands. Anyway.

[Tim Pool]

Just to clarify, the ruling on Bergerfeld wasn't about whether it was a religious institution or Not. It was about whether.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, I know.

[Tim Pool]

It was. A core component was whether states should recognize licensing from other states.

[Josiah]

Yeah, just the secular part, right?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. And it was 5 to 4 on the Liberal side, which is why I think it might go 5 to 4. Inverting. Overturning.

[Luke Beasley]

It could be.

[Josiah]

Before you respond. Cause Myron said something interesting that I did not hear Andrew echo. And I'm curious on that. He made a caveat for, like, civil unions or like secular unions. Would you do that as well or.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, No, I think. Here's what I think. I think that marriage itself as an institution from the state is gone anyway. I mean, look at the divorce rates. Everything else, it's basically destroyed from. From a secular paradigm. I actually don't even understand the point of marriage for secularists if it's just for tax purposes.

[Josiah]

Say taxes.

[Myron Gaines]

That's why I gave that.

[Tim Pool]

Spoiler alert.

[Myron Gaines]

That's the only reason I gave it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Then all you have to do is simply reform the tax code so that these. These breaks are still given to, you know, whoever. Or you can just reform the tax.

[Josiah]

I think you two are much more likely to accept gay marriage than we are to reform the tax code.

[Andrew Wilson]

Hang on that out there. So, yeah, so you could. I mean, that's. That's one thing you can do. The second thing is the breaks aren't that great. That's. And that's the truth. They're not.

[Tim Pool]

At a certain level. They're not.

[Andrew Wilson]

And the third thing is, is that as far as like. Like a prime directive or things like that, you can give that to your best friend Doug. Like you could give your advanced directive to your best friend Doug. You can do that to anybody who you're with. So all of those things you have access to, regardless of your marital status. Secularist. It doesn't even make sense for them to be married. And if they are, why can't they just say, well, I declare that I'm married.

[Josiah]

So again, just.

[Andrew Wilson]

I declare I'm married.

[Myron Gaines]

No adoption of children either. Gay should completely be removed from being allowed to be around.

[Luke Beasley]

Can I just.

[Josiah]

Again, just to further clarify one last. I'm sorry, one last thing. So in your. In your construction, there would be like, no state involvement with marriage or civil union at all?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. The only way that the state would become involved and necessarily. It would have to, would be for some things, which could be custodial, things like that, but generally there'd be no license. But generally religion has always governed these things. And there's ecclesiastical authority standards from the Catholics Catholic and Orthodox church, for instance, that govern how marriage goes. And by the way, the more religious you are, if you defer to the church for assisting you and if they grant a divorce in the first place, in custody arrangements, things like this, they have a great track record of that. State doesn't. The state doesn't have a good track record of it. They generally favor one parent over the other. And that's been the woman for a long time. That's been the standard. It is slowly changing, thank God. But that has been the case. There's actually no good reason, no compelling reason for secularists to get married at all. Definitely no compelling reason for homosexuals to get married. They're not going to be able to get married in Christian churches anyway. So who are they getting married by? Just the state.

[Luke Beasley]

There are Christian churches.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, those aren't Christian churches. Identifying self ID of I'm Christian doesn't make you Christian.

[Myron Gaines]

Okay, go ahead.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, let me go. So you mentioned. Yeah, I know some of yours is detaching from. Because you're saying even marriage in general is tarnished now, but to Tim's question, marriage isn't religious when the state is the one bolstering it. Right. We have the separation towards state. So it has to be a secular concept.

[Andrew Wilson]

Why does the state need to be.

[Luke Beasley]

Involved even if it's bolstering a, you know, something that crosses over with a religious practice, which is marriage. So the, the state honoring a marriage, which is just, it's just a legal commitment between two people. And that's something that people who are secular also want to make and that's honoring because I do think a society is, is better off when people make such commitments to.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, why do you need the state for that commitment?

[Luke Beasley]

There's all sorts of things that the state will incentivize, even like as we try to implement some pro family policies that give you better family. So let me finish, let me finish. Come on. And then, you know, child tax credit, there's things that you want to support and incentivize through the implementation of policy. I think marriage is one of them. And so it can't be about whether or not it's tarnishing the religious concept of marriage because those two things are separate concepts. Then you brought up, and I hear.

[Andrew Wilson]

This, we do at one point at a time.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, you made a lot of points as well, but you brought up that marriage is believed to be a man woman concept. Yes, we've actually, I feel like that's a strange thing to put your argument on because it's just public opinion and public opinion has shifted so radically. Like right here. Is this support for same sex marriage? Yeah. So there's actually a majority support. If you want to look up there, it shows that. But he was. It's dropping. But he. You were wrong.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, I wasn't wrong.

[Luke Beasley]

No, you were wrong that people don't support same sex marriage because you were saying the concept is believed to be by people between a man and woman, which is not what the polling choice is. And then you talked about it being for reproduction. So I would ask, any restrictions you would implement for same sex couples, would you. Would you implement for like, infertile couples?

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, so let's, let's back up. And yes, I'll answer your question, but I'm going to take these one at a time.

[Luke Beasley]

All right.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay. So let's start with what I actually said. I said, literally said, Luke, that the purse. It's the perception of the religious. These aren't valid. They're not saying you can't do them because they just consider them to be invalid. And when you dig into the data, that's what you find. That's what. One. The second thing is the government's job. When the state gets involved for marriage, it's supposed to be for the promotion of the health and welfare of the state. That would be the family unit. Now we can look at birth rates in the United States and we can see marriage has not done us any favors when it comes to reproduction. It has not done us any favors when it comes to intact family units. More single moms than ever. More now more single fathers than ever people. There's almost no virgins. Almost no virgins who get married. I mean, it's basically that ship has sailed. Okay? The institution of marriage itself is cheap. And you also go on to say, what about child tax credits? You get those even if you're not married, Luke. You get the earning. You get the earned income credit even if you're not married, Luke.

[Luke Beasley]

And that was an example. The government incentivizing.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, but the government's not incentivizing that through marriage because you get it even if you're not married.

[Luke Beasley]

That's what I'm saying.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Get it. Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

I was saying marriage.

[Andrew Wilson]

Let me respond. Let me finish.

[Luke Beasley]

Relationship as well.

[Andrew Wilson]

Let me finish the response.

[Luke Beasley]

Like how. Through other posts, Luke, we can.

[Andrew Wilson]

I finish the response.

[Luke Beasley]

Luke, you said something fake about what I was saying, so I just want to explain.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, okay. Even though you said it, you said we have things in marriage like the Earned income tax credit. It's like, no, that applies.

[Luke Beasley]

That's not what he said.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yes, let me explain so you can continue.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I said I believe that marriage as a state concept. Because you asked why, why should the state do it? I said, well, because I actually do think, think people building wealth together, building a life together, same sex or not, is a better structure for a society. And so incentivizing that through honoring it by the state is good. Just like how we incentivize other things like having children through child tax credit. It was just a separate. I just like how we do that.

[Andrew Wilson]

But to answer to your question, when it comes to women who are infertile or can't reproduce, and you, Andrew, you said a component of marriage is reproduction. Remember, this is a component of marriage, not the entire purpose of it. In my view, the purpose of marriage is that the man is representing the Christ head, the woman, the body of the church. That's what the purpose of marriage is. From the religious standpoint. That aside from the secular standpoint, when you're talking about women who get married and they cannot reproduce, there's still a set standard for what is called normalcy. Meaning if you are promoting the normalcy of men and women together, reproducing even the few who cannot reproduce, it still sets the standard for reproduction. In other words, it's still a reflection of reproduction itself because it's a man and a woman. So it sets that standard.

[Luke Beasley]

And we have a different, I guess, obviously moral framework. Because I'm saying I think the normalcy that should be exhibited, the behavior that should be encouraged through this institution is committed relationships to one another. And because I am finding gay couples adopting, I think that, I think that's problematic.

[Andrew Wilson]

Hang on, hang on. I gotta ask one thing, I gotta ask.

[Luke Beasley]

I think that that's a good way way to, to.

[Andrew Wilson]

I gotta ask, is that actually true or is it actually true that you don't care if people have polygamous marriages? If you, that you don't care if people have orgies in their marriage, that you don't care if they open their marriages up and that you don't give a about they're not sanctified to you in any way, shape or form? Do you actually care if gays have big ass sex parties? Gay husbands, they open their marriage up. Is there any concern for any of those things as you're talking about? Well, wait, State, I do believe that it's good for society to have this healthy normal standard. Question, what is the healthy normal standard?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, this Is what I was mentioning earlier, the tone. I don't know why I can explain. Yeah, I agree that whether or not I care about what other people are doing in their lives, I do acknowledge when things are societally advantageous and I think it's societally advantageous to legally, contractually, by the state support people's commitment to one another and bonding of their lives, finances.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, what's the normalcy I that that commitment. But. But if the commitment doesn't mean anything because you just open your marriage up, you don't care about that.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I care.

[Tim Pool]

I get.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, you could do all these things. What's the normal.

[Luke Beasley]

I haven't even said a statement about.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, do you care if people open their marriage up?

[Luke Beasley]

Other people's ways of handling their marriages I can think is not the best thing for their own happiness or whatever.

[Andrew Wilson]

Sure.

[Luke Beasley]

And that's why marriage right now is still between two.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, but what about the normalization aspect?

[Luke Beasley]

So the normalization marriage is normalizing the commitment. What happens outside of that? Just like in straight relate man woman relationships. Crazy stuff happens too. And we can say, all right, I'm not gonna hate on you for that, but I might have a stance that something else. It should be an affirmative good.

[Tim Pool]

That we.

[Luke Beasley]

That we promote. Fine.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. So when we're talking about normalization, the reason that you think that marriage is advantageous is because there's a normalization aspect society. I agree. But just telling two people. Well, you can commit through the state via contract. For what though, Luke? For what? What is the purpose? The purpose would be reproduction. The purpose would be a family unit. The purpose would be intact family homes. The purpose of it would not be for like orgy sex or for opening the marriage up or for things like that. You would have a.

[Myron Gaines]

Have a family unit with 2 dads.

[Josiah]

Want to talk about legal stuff?

[Myron Gaines]

You cannot have a family with two dads or two moms where they reproduce.

[Luke Beasley]

You can't. But like for example, with the. It's 400,000 people who are currently foster care system. Some of those who are available to you can, you know, foster them or adopt them. I'd love. And I think it's a societal good for a same sex couple. Which outcomes for same sex kids of same sex couples are great.

[Andrew Wilson]

They're not worth funded by. Funded by lgbt?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, yeah. It's always funded by everything. I know but you never have studies refute it. And so I actually I think that it is subtle good. If people are starting families together, even if it's not with kids. But they have this commitment which is good for them, good for wealth generation, good for life, stability, which then all makes the community prosper more and I think leads to better outcomes.

[Tim Pool]

I don't want to cut you off, but we are kind of going in a circle here, and I know that you want to throw something in there.

[Josiah]

Well, you mentioned something interesting in the very beginning, which is like the legal implications of this, because obergefell was a 540 decision. And Clarence Thomas did say in the Dobbs decision in his concurring opinion that perhaps we should now, having overturned Roe v. Wade, we should use the same standard to potentially overturn Obergefell. I do think that that's very possible given the current composition of the Court. And of course, you know, you know, more religiously conservative legal activists would love the opportunity to overturn Obergefell. But what will be interesting is, is in 2022, after the Dobbs decision, and I'm blanking on the names, either Defense of Marriage or Respect for Marriage Act. I think it was Respect for Marriage Ye. Signed into law by President Biden. So in theory, the Supreme Court could overturn that as well because it's just federal statute. But a lot of gay marriage protections have been codified, not quite at the level of Obergefell, but by the Respect for Marriage Act. So it'll be interesting to see, so.

[Tim Pool]

We'Ll advance a little bit. One of the arguments made back in 2008, you had Prop 8 in California. Then seven years later you get Obergefell. One of the arguments made by conservatives was that this is a slippery slope where they begin teaching children about. About gay adult activities. Liberals largely said that'll never happen. And I know because I actually campaigned for the Human Rights Campaign in California using those arguments to get people to give money. Sure enough, here we are and I am arguing against these books showing graphic adult content, including anal sex to children in schools. It happened and the argument maintained by the left. One of the principal arguments is if a teacher is gay and a child asks about the gay marriage, they should teach it as it pertains to sex education. The argument presented by many liberals is that it would be discriminatory to only have heterosexual sex education. If you have sex education in schools, it must be for all protected classes of which orientation and identity are protected.

[Luke Beasley]

Us.

[Tim Pool]

These books are in grade schools. And the liberals have defended children seeing fetish content.

[Luke Beasley]

No.

[Tim Pool]

So just like the liberals have defended children seeing fetish content.

[Myron Gaines]

And I don't know which slippery slope. Right. When we allowed gay marriage, we Allowed all this other degeneracy in and my thing is like look, you want to be gay, you want to do that. Awesome. Keep it away from the kids completely. I don't think gays should be allowed to adopt children. Be around children. Redrag to them. What any of this stuff.

[Josiah]

Be in public. My be in public.

[Myron Gaines]

I mean if we're going to be all the way. I think.

[Josiah]

No, no, no.

[Myron Gaines]

Don't Gay only zones where they can only have PDA there. I don't think.

[Luke Beasley]

Talking about a slippery slope.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, real quick.

[Josiah]

I want to do this question. There was a line there.

[Myron Gaines]

Sure, go ahead.

[Tim Pool]

Clarifying point. Yeah, to a degree. Public displays of affection are illegal there. There's a limiting factor on it. So go ahead.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, okay. I thought you meant.

[Josiah]

I just asked be in public as a smart ass. I didn't say. I didn't say have public sex straight or gay. Just for the record like. Yeah, which they do.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, I got to bring it up. They literally do it in California. It's on video and it's horrifying. It's illegal and they don't enforce against it.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, then enforce against it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Like let's not pretend that that doesn't happen.

[Myron Gaines]

My thing is good luck going to.

[Tim Pool]

California and asking the police to actually enforce the actions against what they're doing in public because they are all sorts of.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. All sorts of crazy things in a country this size happen. Including in the school I went to some crazy stuff being taught that's way to the right. So like inappropriate things happen and we can get in that discussion. But first let me answer your question which was about books. I have seen examples of books straight content or gay cut doesn't matter if it's overly sexual for a young person. Of course you don't want them to have that. That doesn't really cross over into then that becoming the justification for banning all sorts of books on that aren't offensive at all and all sorts of topics and that's really we oppose but then on sex education I don't think it's bad when you know at parents homes they're teaching sort of the more foundational moral framework to a kid and that's up to them at school, not too young wherever we as a society have drawn the line of when sex education is the correct time time you actually find that people end up being safer and don't have teen pregnancy etc whenever you have comprehensive sex education which will include. Because some. This might apply to some of the people teaching about the risks of STDs across all different people. And I don't know why you converge those two inappropriate books, gay or straight, shouldn't be there. But what we define as inappropriate might be. But like pornographic obviously out. But then on sex education, teaching about the concept of certain types of sexes, which isn't really making a moral statement about it, but instead is. Is teaching all the things so that when they go out in the world, they're prepared so to operate as an adult.

[Tim Pool]

Let's clarify. So sex ed. Sex ed was largely defined as here are the reproductive organs of a male. Here are the reproductive organs of a female. Here's how they operate. What it has become now is there's a book called this book is Gay in which it describes eating feces. And literally, I believe the book explains to children how to use Grindr. The argument made by prominent liberals is that is gay sex ed. This is how gay people have sex. If you say they cannot teach this because they do these things, that's Discrimination under the 1964 Civil Rights act as orientation and identity are protected. Therefore it must be taught in schools.

[Luke Beasley]

No, it's.

[Tim Pool]

Let me clarify.

[Luke Beasley]

There's also. Who fetishes straight people and want to teach about.

[Tim Pool]

And there is about that. So. So let's clarify. But what's appropriate is no such thing as LGBTQ sex ed. If sex ed is quite literally reproductive organs and that's all it is. And how they operate.

[Luke Beasley]

That's not what sex is.

[Josiah]

Yeah, I don't. I would just sex ed.

[Luke Beasley]

You don't think we should teach at all about STDs or contraception or anything like that?

[Tim Pool]

That's. That's science, organ virus, etc. It's not teaching people different types of fetish practices.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I.

[Josiah]

But I don't think any. I don't think we agree with it.

[Luke Beasley]

Just. You're saying prominent minute. What Republicans are Nazis. It's like.

[Andrew Wilson]

So.

[Tim Pool]

So let me people.

[Luke Beasley]

What does it mean?

[Tim Pool]

Gay sex is educational and scientific that should be taught to children.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm sorry, ask that again. What.

[Tim Pool]

What LGBTQ sex is appropriate for children in your view?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. So to lay out the exact presentation I think a teacher should give and whatever grade it is, I obviously want to go look at sort of the curriculum and all that. But I can tell you that the. The sex education goes beyond just here's your reproductive organs. And I think that's important. And when I've seen research about. About this, it's actually like how to yalls interest making people safer and less likely to End up. How does it go beyond the things relating to sex? So as I mentioned, having sex, because this is something that happens whether you. Right. Even if it's between same sex people, you probably want to inform people of all different orientations of the practices that you can take.

[Tim Pool]

So are you saying that you would teach a question? I have a question for that.

[Luke Beasley]

You made a question. I'm going to finish.

[Tim Pool]

You made a point. You literally just made. You made two points.

[Luke Beasley]

I was finishing my point, Tim.

[Andrew Wilson]

You finished my point.

[Tim Pool]

My question for you is because you.

[Luke Beasley]

Just one other joke about STDs.

[Tim Pool]

There's STDs and explaining to. To children how to avoid these things. Does that mean schools should teach children about anal sex?

[Luke Beasley]

So that's what I'm saying. I would have to look at what the research has shown is the most. Not research, but like educational professionals have laid out is the most appropriate. Because I really have until right now not thought about sex education.

[Myron Gaines]

The answer should be no. It should be up to the parents. The parents should get a slip. You want your kids to learn XYZ and it should be yes or no. And if they say no, then they don't teach the kid that the parents choose.

[Luke Beasley]

That's how you spike teen pregnancies rates at a really crazy amount.

[Myron Gaines]

Oh, really?

[Andrew Wilson]

Concepts Teen pregnancies in the 1920s. Were there Paris a lot more teen pregnancies. Wait, wait. There was a lot more teen pregnancies in the 1930s, 40s, 50s.

[Luke Beasley]

Like what?

[Andrew Wilson]

Was there more teen pregnancies in the 30s, 40s?

[Luke Beasley]

I think they were getting married because they were getting pregnant. Wait, wait, I'm asking pregnancy in other countries too. Like we can pull it up out.

[Andrew Wilson]

Of wedlock because this out of wedlock teenage.

[Luke Beasley]

You might know that I sent so that we could have a thoughtful discussion a list of topics. This wasn't on it. And so if you want to come back and I can do all the research to understand exactly what sex education happens at this grade and that grade and what's most common. We can do it, but I do not know.

[Andrew Wilson]

Also didn't agree to this. But we're on it. So let's have the conversation. So do you. Are you saying that in the 30s, 40s, 50s. Did you hear there's less team. So you can't answer the question.

[Tim Pool]

To be fair, he said he couldn't.

[Luke Beasley]

Because it's not the 1920 teen pregnancy rates. No, I don't.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, because it stands to reason if you're for. For gay sex education, you would have to agree that when gay sex education. Sex education, yeah, okay, but when gay sex education wasn't taught in like the 50s, let's say, or the 40s, or things like this, and you say, well, necessarily we teach these things because it reduces teen pregnancy. It reduces. It reduces, you know, X, Y and Z. Shouldn't we see those high rates back then when they weren't teaching it? And we don't. Luke.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, you do have. I can't speak to every exact stat, but you do see the way that we've addressed STDs. Yes. How we've decreased teen pregnancy, at least through abortion recently. No, no, but.

[Josiah]

Yeah, so. So listen, listen.

[Luke Beasley]

You can look at the rates of that too.

[Josiah]

But yeah, so. So is there anything based on what he said about the level of education that you disagree with? Because it seems pretty comprehensive to me. At whatever grade you start teaching sex education, you should be like, you know, discussing to the extent. To protect against STDs and things like that. I don't think people should be teaching. Would you refer to it like fetishes? Fetishes. Or like, of course, eating feces. And I was gonna say shit like that. Pun intended. But like, no, I don't agree with that at all.

[Tim Pool]

Those books are in schools, for instance.

[Luke Beasley]

We've already addressed it. Yeah, we have bipartisanship. Get inappropriate books out.

[Tim Pool]

Right. So.

[Luke Beasley]

So I don't agree that a book about, like someone's journey being black or something, which no one they're worried about, that should be banned. And so there's a nuanced line there. We all agree with that.

[Myron Gaines]

Well, my thing is, I don't even think it should be in the education system unless the. The parents allow it. I think the parents should make the decision, do I want my kid to get this sex type education? This grade, whatever. And if the parent says no, no, they don't teach it. Kid leaves when they teach it. I think it needs to be on the parents, not an education.

[Josiah]

Just to clarify the decision. Do you feel that way about, like, all sex ed? That there should be like. Like all sex education?

[Myron Gaines]

All of it should be. All of it should be done through the parents. The parents decide when it's taught, how it's taught, and they have strict oversight of it because some parents want to have that conversation with their children to educate them in their own way. I think that should be 100 on the parents. And then they decide. And then obviously they know what's going to be taught at different grades, et cetera. The parents should be.

[Luke Beasley]

Have 100 even like sex education. I do know this for sure, but we could pull up the studies to get the exact numbers on this. A part of it doesn't matter how I know, but like my. My mom works in a space where there's a big emphasis of making sure people are being educated properly. Because even like assault and knowing how to prevent sexual assault and knowing how to go to the proper authorities and like all of those things and understanding what assault is. And when someone, a teacher or something is crossing a line, whenever you're just depending on a parent who may not do it comprehensively or students to tell them about all these things, they end up being put in a more dangerous situation.

[Myron Gaines]

Well, the parents need to know what. That's. That's the importance of educating the parent, telling them this is what we plan to.

[Josiah]

There should be. Yes, I agree. I don't think. Yeah, there should be.

[Myron Gaines]

Total.

[Josiah]

Total.

[Myron Gaines]

Well, you need to know. The transparency needs to be there because.

[Luke Beasley]

The parent might be the one abusing.

[Josiah]

There should be someone abusing.

[Andrew Wilson]

Look at the teacher.

[Luke Beasley]

Why they should be taught. Exactly.

[Andrew Wilson]

There should.

[Josiah]

There should be transparency. I was gonna say we agree that there should be transparency. I don't. That I think the state has an interest in protecting children as well and, you know, educating about sex and. And you know, avoiding the STDs and things of that nature.

[Tim Pool]

So we are just about a time. But I will. I do have one more question for everybody. Do you believe that parents should have the final say when it comes to the medical decisions of their children?

[Luke Beasley]

Final say.

[Andrew Wilson]

There. I. There's. I have a caveat. I want to agree with this, but I do have a caveat. Cavia. There are like religious nut cases who exist who will. They won't give their kids any treatment for anything. Not a broken bone, not a, you know, they have a, you know, like a terrible infection. They won't allow them to have antibiotics. They just like pray over them. Right. And. And this type of thing. I do support some sort of intervention on behalf of those children so that they get the treatment they need so they don't die. Die of these, like, horrible infections or, you know, something like this from a broken bone. I think, I think within the confines of reason, this should be ascertained. But generally speaking, of course parents should have the right over the medical decisions of their kids. Who else should?

[Tim Pool]

So do you guys agree?

[Myron Gaines]

I. I agree with that wholeheartedly. The only thing I would say is, like, if they want to say I want to transition my kid, then no, because There are some loonies out there.

[Andrew Wilson]

That say, but I put that on par. Which within the confines.

[Myron Gaines]

I wanted to add that, that I wanted to just add that. But like yeah, you know, serious medical situation or transitioning their kids, that's the two times where the parents decision doesn't really know.

[Josiah]

Yeah, I, I was just going to say as a general heuristic, yeah, I think that when it comes to minors, parents like should generally have the final say. But I agree with Andrew that there should be some exceptions, like, you know.

[Luke Beasley]

When it gets to the things like neglect.

[Josiah]

Yeah, exactly. Or abuse or things of that nature. So I, I, I think it's just like trying to identify that line and I'll totally admit that I don't know.

[Luke Beasley]

Where that line is. Don't have the own.

[Andrew Wilson]

It's not arbitrary, but there is interpretation with it. There's no way around the fact that there's interpretation.

[Tim Pool]

So we do have to go. Rhett. But the reason why I want to ask and kind of go quick with it is that in blue states, if a child is distressed and the doctor prescribes gender transition, the parents say no. The state intervenes and says, you do not have the right to decide for your child. In red states it's inverted. In red states it's inverted. If the parent says my kid should get a transition, the state intervenes and says, no, you can't. So I bring this up because there is this principle that people like to bring up that the parents should ultimately decide, but the reality is based on the moral worldview. People will easily break from that principle.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, I think it's because we all agree that the framework should be if you're not yet able to decide for yourself because you're not a legal adult, then you have to decide in accordance with your guardian. It's just a matter of where do we draw the line of when sort of you lose guardianship because you're making such.

[Andrew Wilson]

What's so bizarre is I feel like.

[Luke Beasley]

The right, oh, but Christian stuff is often distorted.

[Andrew Wilson]

I feel like the Christian right is the only ones who are consistent on this. So like we would say the same thing. If you're taking your two year old and getting full body tattoos for the two year old, you take your two year old to the tattoo parlor and give them full body tattoos, we would be like, no, you're not allowed to do that. WhatsApp.

[Tim Pool]

It's not consistent.

[Andrew Wilson]

What's inconsistent.

[Tim Pool]

It's impossible to be consistent on this issue because it's based on morality, not on legal.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, I'm saying their moral position is consistent within the principle of their morality.

[Myron Gaines]

You saying in a Christian.

[Tim Pool]

That's my point.

[Luke Beasley]

Everyone's dependent on their own morale.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. It's not a question of whether parents have the right to question on whether it adheres to your morals.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, I know, but other moral positions are not consistent to their principle on this. I'm arguing. I think that the Christian position is consistent in its moral principles on that issue. I think it is actually consistent. I don't think that the liber or the. Like the harm reductionists or the utilitarians, things like this. I don't think they're consistent because I think that if you're trying to do harm reduction as your principle, that you can clearly see that this is not a reduction of harm to a child to put them on puberty blockers and things like this, though they argue it is, they can't really make that. That declaration correctly. I think that they're not consistent. I think that the Christian principle is actually consistent here.

[Tim Pool]

We're gonna, we're gonna wind things down. We'll wrap it up. So everybody, thank you for, for hanging out. It's been a blast and I hope to do more of these.

[Andrew Wilson]

We'll.

[Tim Pool]

We'll just go around for final thoughts and we'll start. We'll go. We'll go around this way so that Josiah has a chance to get back in here. But did you want to give final thoughts and a shout out to your where people can find you?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, sure. My name is Andrew Wilson, host of the one and only Crucible popular Entertainment show on YouTube. YouTube, often guested on Tim Pool. Thank you again, Tim, for having me. I really appreciate it. Anytime. And Myron, again, thank you too. This was actually a more productive conversation than ultimately I thought it would be. Though I think we got off in the weeds about a few things. I'd be open to discussing more with you guys in other settings too, if you want to really dive into more of these issues. I'm happy to do so. But I really appreciated the venue and ultimately we won. So.

[Luke Beasley]

Luke Beasley. Luke Beasley on YouTube. Yeah. Always appreciate the dialogue and thanks for having on. Tim.

[Tim Pool]

Where can people find you?

[Luke Beasley]

Luke Beasley's on YouTube.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, okay. That's it?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, that's it.

[Myron Gaines]

Myron Gaines, one half of the Fresh Fit podcast. I also have my own talk show where I talk about culture and politics. Myron Gaines X on there. Fresh Fit on YouTube. Rumble Rumble's, you know, the home base for us, obviously, with some of our takes. And, Tim, thanks for having me, man. It's always great to be here.

[Tim Pool]

Right on. And last but not least, sorry.

[Josiah]

I was holding that in for a while. I was basically doing Kegels in my chair. I know when you guys kept going, I'm like, come on. I'm Josiah with Pondering Politics, liberal commentator. I enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for the invitation. And it's gonna be a long and brutal four years. I hope you all are happy.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'm pretty happy.

[Tim Pool]

Of course.

[Josiah]

This.

[Myron Gaines]

Yeah, it'll be a good time.

[Tim Pool]

All right, everybody, thanks for hanging out. Out. We're back with several clips [e-mail] timcast news throughout the day and then YouTube.com timcast IRL tonight, Myron's gonna be hanging out.

[Myron Gaines]

Yep, I'll be hanging out. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

And thanks for hanging out, guys. We'll see y'all then.