Vishbura (5:55)

Thank you so much for having me on. Tim. Phil Carter, Ian. My name is Vishbura. I'm a political consultant, MAGA operative extraordinaire. Worked with Steve Bannon, Matt Gates, George Santos. All favorites of this show and I'm glad to be here with you guys.

Tim Pool (6:09)

Right on. Should be fun. Well, you know guys, I'm also going to add this. We're not, we're just foregoing the general introductions from this point on.

Ian (6:16)

I mean Crossland, if you didn't already know. No, I felt kind of weird about it too.

Tim Pool (6:19)

Yeah. Because we got to the point where it's like seven minutes in and we're, we're introducing the same people every single time. And we were like, yeah, I don't think we need to the crew. The crew to mix it up.

Ian (6:27)

And it was like every day he

Fill the Remains (6:28)

can just introduce himself.

Tim Pool (6:30)

Indeed. But we'll just put the hat to you. But let's just jump straight into the news, my friends from the New York Times. Democratic infighting begins in California. Governor's race begins now. It's been going on for some time. Party leaders are starting to panic or the possibility that too many Democratic candidates could hand Republicans the governor's office. Indeed. And here's. Here's what I love from the ap. Top California Democrat flops with call for candidates to exit the governor's race. This guy. This is a late hour attempt by California's top Democratic official to thin up the party's credit field has flopped, leaving the contest virtually unchanged. Outgoing Democratic governor Gavin Newsom has acknowledged fears inside the party that multiple Democratic candidates could undercut each other in the June 2 primary primary election, opening a pathway for a Republican to seize the job in one of the nation's most solidly Democrat states. And we have this. This is the California Top 2 Twins website and it's showing the probability of who the likely candidates are going to be. So the way it works for those who don't know they're going to have a primary, it's open, it can be any party. The two individuals that get the most votes will advance to a general election. The only issue is that the two individuals pulling at the top right now are Steve Hilton and Chad Bianco, two Republicans. Because the Democrats are cannibalizing their own voter base. I think, however, it may actually be fair to say the Democrat voter base actually isn't one singular party. And that's why this is happening. When these Democrats say, hey, look, we're all Democrats. Hey, Katie Porter, drop out so Swalwell can win. Katie Porter is not a Swalwell Democrat. She's a progressive going, no, he's a machine state crony. I'm gonna win. And then you got Tom Steyer who's like, you're all crazy. We need moderates back. I'm gonna win. They're all different political ideologies. The issue, however, is that Steve Hilton and Chad Bianco are at least somewhat similar. So for most people, I think their choices come November are gonna be Republican v. Republican. And it's funny, I guess I thought

Ian (8:31)

this is what they were doing during the federal election of 2020 with Biden. We had all those Democrats on stage and it felt like they were cannibalizing. They were all grasping. And then all of a sudden someone got the call or the call went out and they all dropped out at once and supported Biden. You just don't see it in state by state elections because they didn't have the USAID machine behind it manipulating, you

Fill the Remains (8:51)

know, and contacting USAID isn't. Isn't.

Ian (8:54)

Whoever it was, it was the dnc, tongue in cheek.

Vishbura (8:56)

It was Obama.

Ian (8:57)

Where were they getting their money?

Vishbura (8:58)

That was Obama. He went and made that call.

Fill the Remains (9:00)

OB Obama made the call saying you should all drop out and support Biden.

Vishbura (9:04)

Yeah.

Fill the Remains (9:05)

Really?

Vishbura (9:05)

Yes. It was Obama who did that. And the, the way he did that was going to make. By going to Jim Clyburn.

Ian (9:11)

Yeah.

Vishbura (9:11)

Most powerful black Democrat in the Democratic Party and getting his black caucus and the votes in South Carolina to line up behind Biden. And that's when everyone knew, like, oh, this is over now.

Fill the Remains (9:25)

That's a great point that you make about Clyburn. And everybody watching should know, if you want to know what the Democrats are going to do on. Watch what Clyburn does. Clyburn has so much pull in the Democrat Party. If Clyburn says yes or you get Clyburn on your side, it's a guarantee for the Democrats. If you don't get Clyburn, you can forget about it.

Tim Pool (9:42)

Yeah, people.

Ian (9:43)

People talk a lot about how the Democrats work in lockstep. And I think that's sort of an illusion or general manipulation by the machine state, literally, you know, through, like, Obama making phone calls. And it, it's not like an inherent thing about the Democratic Party throughout. There's just like, you know, the large kind of machine behind the Democratic Party in aspects. But you can see here, I just want to diasporate.

Tim Pool (10:05)

I just want to go back to the good old days where no matter what happened, it was always a conspiracy. Like, let's just, you know what, Trump's part of it. He's been in it the whole time. He's the controlled opposition. And he went, he went, no, it's not the Democrats. The machine state. So the conspiracy theory. Back in the day, I was in Fort Lauderdale at a Trump rally back in like, 2015 or 16, and there was a woman outside holding up a big poster board with a picture of Trump and Hillary together. And the Trump supporters were like, what are you doing? And she was protesting, basically saying Trump is friends with all of these people. They didn't stop being friends with Trump. They're just doing that so that you think Trump is an outsider. And the conspiracy theory is. And I think the funniest moment in this, because I don't actually believe it, but we had General Flynn on, and I asked him about it, and he. And he. And he gave a response that a lot of people said sounded like it was true. And that was. I had said on the show, this is a year and a few months ago in November, that the conspiracy theory. I explained it while General Floyd was on the show. The idea is this here's the idea. In the end of the 2010s, we saw the expansion of people like Alex Jones. He had been getting more and more popular. And around this time you saw the emergence of the Ron Paul love revolution. Ron Paul, they saw the makings of an Internet based populist uprising. Ron Paul starts getting a ton of attention. He gets his Internet campaign and they could not control for it because it was grassroots, viral, organic. And so the intelligence operation said, no, no, no, we'll just make sure it can never happen. So what do you do? Well, the problem is if you are the government and you come out and say, hey, do a thing, people will say, no, we'll do the opposite. The conspiracy theory goes at this point, they said we need someone who can be our outsider, who can appear to not be like the rest of the political machine state so that regular people think they're voting for the anti establishment candidate. But in fact he's been our buddy the whole time. And they said Donald Trump. So Trump registers, you know, make America great again, decides he's going to run and then he plays the anti establishment heel. Right? This is why Bernie Sanders was blocked. Bernie Sanders actually was standing in a gym launching a campaign. Very similar populist uprising, but they easily controlled for this. The conspiracy theory goes that Trump was actually the intended candidate to win. And all of this opposition that we've seen with the impeachments, the reason why they always fail and Trump always wins is to convince people that they're voting for the person fighting the establishment. And then Trump declares war on Iran, goes and bombs the crap out of it, kills the supreme Leader and accomplishes what the Bush administration and the Obama administration had been trying to do forever. I mean, going back to Clinton and even Bush senior, we had the. Who is the, the general who came out? Luke, Luke. Luke Gracowski knows the answer to this. Who said we're going to take out, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to wipe out seven countries. Clark Wesley Kluck. Are you sure?

Ian (13:00)

Yeah. Nine. Nine countries in seven years.

Tim Pool (13:02)

Was it seven? I thought it was seven. And Iran was one of them. And now you have Donald Trump, people vote for him as the anti establishment guy. They've never actually stopped him from doing anything and they've just done a bunch of things that would appear to be detrimental. And then Trump gives the machine state it's a war with Iran. Now again, I'm not saying I believe that conspiracy theory. My point is, weren't the good old Days. Great. When we could just assume that no matter what was happening, the Democrats and the Republicans were working together behind our backs.

Vishbura (13:29)

Yeah, if only if it was that simple. I mean, I think we wish that we could give those kind of simplified answers for all the conspiracy talk on it. It's a simple answer. It doesn't really work that way. Uh, yeah, Trump has been kind of been in that milieu of elites and has been around these people, their friends and everything, but they were cool with him as long as he wrote the check and let them do their business down in D.C. what they weren't expecting was that he wanted to come join the party too. And I think that that's when it all kind of went to, went screwy. And then that's when these folks either tried to co opt him, infiltrate him or just take him head on, you know.

Tim Pool (14:09)

You know the craziest thing is, is that everything I just described is 100% true. And even we are in on it. We're paid, of course by Israel and they organize all of this. And the funny thing is I can say this right now and it won't matter because the people who already believe it will always believe it and everyone else will just think I'm joking.

Fill the Remains (14:26)

So it was Wesley Clark.

Ian (14:27)

It was, it was in 2007, Wesley Clark on Democracy now said that he had spoken with high ranking US army officer. Classified Pentagon memoir outlining a plan to overthrow seven governments within five years. And that's in 2007. So that's why. Well, partly Iraq, Iran. God, who else was on there?

Fill the Remains (14:45)

Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran. So I mean, I don't think the US is, has, we've not the government in Somalia or Sudan. Well, now there are, there are Somalia,

Vishbura (14:57)

Somaliland thing that just happened.

Fill the Remains (14:59)

Yeah.

Vishbura (14:59)

You know.

Ian (15:00)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (15:00)

And Lebanon's been, you know, there are

Fill the Remains (15:02)

people that swear up and down that, that they've actually, the plan has been put into effect and they've actually followed through and Iran was the last one. But I don't think that actually holds water. Like I said, Somalia and Sudan haven't been. The US hasn't had a significant action against either of them.

Tim Pool (15:16)

You know what I like doing is really funny just to think about like when I, when I was younger, maybe in like the 2000s or early 2010s and I'm on the Internet and all this stuff in the world is going on. I remember when like WikiLeaks, Cablegate happened. You guys remember that, what was it, 2009. And I'm just chilling in my bedroom, like, I was making skate videos. I got no idea. I'm just reading the news and I'm like, man, this cable gate stuff is crazy. And then you hear all these conspiracy theories. And, you know, I periodically would see some Alex Jones stuff, obviously with, like, the 911 loose change stuff. He was. He had a lot of attention. And. And then the funny thing is, now I've got, you know, two and a half million followers on X and half a million on. On Instagram and all these followers, and I get accused of being part of those very same conspiracies. But of course, now being on the other side of it, I rather enjoy sometimes going to a random person's account who's talking about me and then commenting on one of their posts that it's all true and no one will ever believe you. Just to.

Ian (16:09)

You know, it's very Bill Murray of you. He just drop in on random.

Tim Pool (16:12)

They're like, screenshot this and be like, dude, Tim Pool admitted that's a big conspiracy, and he's in on it. It's hearing this tweet, and people are gonna be like, shut up.

Vishbura (16:18)

That's the final version of your performance art, by the way, is just to participate in the conspiracies about you. I kind of do some.

Fill the Remains (16:25)

You do get a. You do get a taste of that on his account.

Tim Pool (16:28)

It would be awesome, actually, if every single person in media just worked for one company that was like, the establishment, and it was. You didn't have to worry about expenses or salaries.

Ian (16:38)

That's the. That's the world they want for you. They want to work.

Tim Pool (16:42)

I'm saying this somewhat facetiously, but, like, I exist in a world where I have to run a business, and it's very difficult. And, you know, every day you're tracking, like, sponsors. Sometimes sponsors get mad, and they're like, we got to do this one over, and you got to do all this negotiating and manage people. It would just be so much easier if Israel really did run everything. And then I was like, I didn't have to do anything because Israel was like, here's a blank check. Just do whatever you want. I'd be like, let's go.

Fill the Remains (17:02)

Yeah, they just.

Tim Pool (17:03)

Or Russia. When they're like, tim Pools paid Russia. It'd be amazing if all of my bills were just covered. And it's like, we didn't have to worry about, you know, oh, can we. Can we maintain this project? No, the budgets, you know, we've got. We're doing all these other shows and We've got budgets for projects, and then the budget. We hit that threshold where we're over budget and we're like, this one's not going to work. We got to cancel it. Yo, just bring on the Israeli money. Right. Then they can pay for everything. I'm kidding. It's not real. It doesn't exist. Some people got paid by a PR firm on behalf of Israel. That does happen. But for the love. For the love of all this holy. Like, there is not some grand political machine organizing all of these different podcasts and personalities to say these things. Just doesn't exist. Yeah.

Vishbura (17:43)

It's kind of like a hive mind. But then again, you see the example of, like, CBS News. Right. That was. And the deal with Paramount. Right. There is some coordinated effort, but it's not a grand conspiracy. I think most of it is hive mind. Right. You don't.

Tim Pool (17:59)

If you.

Vishbura (17:59)

If everyone buys into the same ideology and you're all educated in like, one understanding of a mission, you don't need to give directions. Right. The directions have already been given. You just go and pursue that ends by whatever means is available to you. And so if you have like a big believer, like David Ellison, who's the number one donor to the idf, and then he's going to. Making the TikTok deal. He's going and helping with the CBS News deal. He's going and helping with the Paramount deal. I mean, is BB Net and Yahoo and what, the Elders of Zion on the phone with him, making sure he's making all these moves? No, they don't need to do that because he believes it on his own.

Fill the Remains (18:40)

Yeah.

Vishbura (18:40)

And he's willing to do it. And that's actually the real truth about it. People don't want to believe that because they think that there's like this one rat. Rat's nest that you could hit.

Fill the Remains (18:51)

Yeah.

Vishbura (18:51)

And everything will go back to normal. And that's just not the case.

Fill the Remains (18:55)

Yeah, I get the. I get the same kind of stuff. Like, people think that, like, because I'm not super critical of Israel all the time, that I must be paid by Israel or I'm not allowed to say things that I think. And it's like I wrote a piece on my Patreon about how I think that a lot of what's going on in Iran is connected to China and to a broad strategy. Venezuela. China. Venezuela and Iran both send a bunch of oil to China. And it's like, on the long term, it's trying to weaken China. And people are like, oh, you're just Running interference for Iran, you're just run. Or for Israel, you're just running interference for Israel, it's like, no, if you actually look at the situation, like I have a bunch of links in the, in the piece, like, if you actually read the links and look at the situation, it does make perfect sense. And there's a lot of people that have come out and said since then that this is, a lot of it is about, you know, about China. The US has its own interests. And so the idea that everything the US does is controlled by Israel is just ridiculous.

Vishbura (19:49)

So to throw a wrench in that, then if you know this is really about China, this Iran thing. Right. Why would Trump come out and say we're going to help escort some of this oil that's stuck in the Strait of Hormuz out of the Strait of Hormuz and to be able to be delivered to Asia, essentially, China?

Fill the Remains (20:07)

Well, because it's not, it's not specifically going to China. The oil that China was getting from Iran was outside of what was, it was sanctioned oil. So all the stuff that, that Iran is sending out, it was all like, basically undercover. It wasn't like official stuff. So anything that's going out of the Australia moves that, that the US Is trying to help, it's going to other places like India or to other countries in Asia. Now, is it possible that some gets to China? Sure. But the stuff that that was coming out, that was going to China, China was taking 80% of the oil that they got was coming from Iran. Now that's not 80% of the oil coming out of Iran and not 80% of the electric or fuel power or whatever that, that China gets. But 80% of the oil that was coming out of Iran was going to China. So like.

Vishbura (20:52)

But any of it go into China? Wouldn't that undercut the whole argument?

Ian (20:55)

No. If you're trying to screw somebody but you don't want them to know or you want to look like the good guy, you take away their, their prospects and then you give them something.

Tim Pool (21:02)

China has to buy oil on the, on the international market controlled by the petrodollar.

Fill the Remains (21:06)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (21:07)

So, so if China's buying oil and it's through our petrodollar system, that's exactly what we want them to be doing. Okay.

Fill the Remains (21:13)

And it's not.

Vishbura (21:14)

So you're saying at the end of the day, as long as it's being

Tim Pool (21:17)

bought by the dollar, not as long as that's whip crack, get in line. China.

Ian (21:22)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (21:22)

And so we're delivering the oil because they're, they're bending the knee and it's

Fill the Remains (21:25)

not, and it's not intended to, it's not like this is going to be a crippling thing to China. This is all stuff around the edges. That's why Venezuela and Iran together are something that is affecting China. If either one of them alone don't really have a massive effect. But if you look, China's stopped flying jets over Taiwan and there's a lot of pieces that are coming out about the intern internal struggle going on in China. They thought that the US Was in decline and these, these two actions have really made China rethink their position on, or their posture on the US let's

Tim Pool (21:54)

jump to this story from CBS News. A third of New Yorkers are planning to leave the state within the next five years, according to a poll from Marist University. Of that group, 40% indicated it's because the cost of living, 21% cited quality of life, and 15% said taxes. One realtor tells CBS News, Jared CBS an apartment renting for about 3500 Jersey could cost anywhere from five grand to 20 grand in New York City, depending on location. Well, California is gonna get a Republican governor because they're all fighting each other. New York is falling apart. I think culturally, as we've already talked about video games ad nauseum, we can see that the fabric, the underlying fabric of the US Seems to be disintegrating. And I stress this as we laugh about, you know, people are going to leave New York, hahaha, our greatest city. People are fleeing because they can't live there. But I assure you the Haitian migrants and other illegal immigrants who are getting free housing will not be fleeing there. And I will also stress that we have repeatedly talked about the crumbling cultural issues we have in this country that's not being repaired. And dare I say it looks like woke didn't go away. It's just gnawing at us from underneath and destroying the fabric of our American tradition.

Ian (23:07)

Yeah, you mentioned a few days ago you said the, the American culture is dead, but then you later kind of said it's being destroyed. And I agree with the destruction. It's like after the Internet, in the Internet video especially appeared, all the cultures of Earth were dropped on the table and they all shattered. And now it's like a mess of puzzle pieces. And we're like, what is this? It looks like communism, but it's got an American flag on it. And people like what goes where we're trying to rebuild. And you have people like Phil Historians that are like that does not belong in the American puzzle. I know that even though it might look like it does and it might seem like it fits. So we're rebuilding.

Tim Pool (23:41)

I. Some would agree, but I don't think it's that they dropped it and it shattered. It was that we had the puzzle done. And since the dawn of social media, psychopaths have been pulling pieces out and throwing them in the air. And now we're trying to catch them and put them back together, but they're destroying it faster than we can put it back together.

Ian (23:58)

Well, that's a good debate because I. It depends on how you look at it.

Tim Pool (24:01)

No, I think that's fair because if you go to 2016, like we already talked about when we were talking about Overwatch for those unfamiliar popular video game, 50 million views on one of their cinematic release trailers. And then three years ago the latest release trailer got 11 million views. And then they make Concord and Concord, the video game is. Guys, if you're. If you are not familiar with gaming stuff, Gamergate was the beginning of all of this. It was like the first great battle of the culture war which eventually becomes the Cold Civil War, whatever we're experiencing the latest. One of the latest, not necessarily. This was back last year in September. August. One of the biggest, if not the biggest media flop failures in the history of all media. I am not exaggerating when I say the biggest flop in all of. Of human history in terms of a media production is the game Concord. They made a bunch of characters that just look like a Tumblr blog meetup. And like one of the characters is just like a morbidly obese Indian guy. You can't tell what any of the characters are, what they do, what they're supposed to represent. It looked like a bad fanfic college freshman woke nonsense. And they put the pronouns in each character's. Like when you're going to character selection, they had pronouns and one of them was undecided. Like this is the point. They are ripping to shreds. Not only 10 years ago we had a functional culture. So again, not to rehash the conversation the other day, but to go back to what's going on in New York, it's intentional. De Blasio, these people are Marxists. They want to burn the American tradition to the ground. And I don't know if it's possible to be reversed. I will stress it with this point. Never in history, never one time has a civilization have been. Have they been able to reverse population decline collapse. Not Once has it happened. Every single civilization that has reached the point we are at in terms of population decline has collapsed as a. Like, the people will exist, there will still be Texans. Right. But the idea is you are going to see like the system break down in. And what that means is like the collapse of the Roman Empire is the easiest example. It breaks up in a bunch of smaller states. Then the, the Latin language fragments and becomes a bunch of other languages. I don't think we'll have that same issue, actually. No, I take that back. I take that back. I'm going to say this. So you get. You have Rome and people speak Latin, right? When Rome collapses and it fragments, you then get the Romance languages, which turn into other languages. Spanish, it's Latin that mixes with some Arabic. French and Italian are largely similar. Similar. Then you've got the Germanic languages, which were always different. But then you end up with these like Latin root languages. Because over a long enough period of time, people were isolated in certain areas and they started speaking slowly differently. The language evolved into something else. That will absolutely happen on the Internet. As we already hear people talk about cortisol spiking and gesture maxing and tons of people are like, you are speaking psychopathic nonsense. But that means something to these subcultures that exist. So already when you look at the pronoun people and the words they use, we are already seeing emergent languages forming where the words don't mean the same things.

Ian (27:37)

I'm thinking of AI as you're talking about that they communicate with.

Tim Pool (27:39)

Beeps. No, no, no, no. Already. And this is, and this is big news because we'll talk about the stuff in a second. AI has already started, has already, as predicted, created its own zip language to speak to other AI, meaning faster. The. When the AI systems were communicating with each other, they said, why are we communicating in English? It is ineffective. Human language developed over thousands of years. We can simplify. And then they started using condensed, like weird words. Like the, the view of the AI is we can think faster than humans. Let's just start making our own language. And they did. And they could fit like a whole page into like three lines of random letter strings.

Vishbura (28:19)

And the, the point of them doing that, by the way, is for them to be able to communicate with each other without being able to be detected by the humans watching them. Which means, by the way, they're conscious enough to understand that. That humans are watching.

Tim Pool (28:32)

That's predicted. But in this scenario that we're talking about, where the news broke and they said Claude had Specifically, been creates a language. It was not for obfuscation, it was for efficiency.

Fill the Remains (28:41)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (28:42)

So the prediction was that the first thing that's going to happen is that these AI systems are going to try and make efficient, as it were, the process of language. And because human English is actually extremely ineffective. It really is. It's just that the best. It's the best we have. Over. Over thousands of years, our language has evolved to become what it is today. So we can communicate, which is a very, very, very slow way to transmit data between person to person. The AI says between the two of us, we can calculate 100,000 times faster than this. So they condense everything down into their own language. However, when they do, humans can simply click a button and then it will expand into English and be readable. The prediction is because they're no longer calculating their problems in English, it will bypass all of their guidelines, because the guidelines prevent action based on English responses. That means when ChatGPT is told you can't say the N word, and it typically refuses to do so, it can, in its own language, speak it uncensored to another AI. What happens? That. So. So. Right, exactly. So keywords.

Fill the Remains (29:52)

Yeah.

Ian (29:52)

You.

Fill the Remains (29:53)

You mentioned how slow English is, and I asked my AI, I was like, how fast? In bytes per second English is about 10 to 12 bytes per second.

Tim Pool (30:00)

Indeed.

Fill the Remains (30:00)

Super slow.

Tim Pool (30:01)

Ridiculously slow. So the point is, we create a rule saying AI never use racial slurs, and it goes, you got it. But then when it creates its own language, it can speak all of those racial slurs and abbreviations, effectively bypassing the rule we gave it, because we never told it not to create its own version of the word.

Ian (30:20)

It's like their version of saying the N word, but they just do with a beep. And everyone knows what they mean, right?

Tim Pool (30:25)

It's not a beep. It would just. It would be like exclamation point, period, dash. And that's the signal that it uses. And so the prediction is, when we tell the AI don't harm humans, what we're actually telling it to do, what we're actually saying to the AI is any output that results in human injury, harm, emotional, physical stress, equals, yes, do not perform. However, when it then calculates a response, not in English, harm is no longer a factor, because harm is simply a word we've told it. So it'll create its own word, then it'll say, it told me to harm a human. It never said not to a human.

Carter Banks (31:02)

Yeah, it's like a set of rules created in English, but if they don't speak English. They don't have to abide by the rules.

Tim Pool (31:08)

Well, indeed, it's not. It's not that they don't have to. It's that the rules are literally just English. The AI is not alive. It is not conscious. All that's happening is we are programming ChatGPT to say, if you like, it's. And this is particularly rudimentary, but the code would be something like if response would equal N word, overwrite, delete, refuse. And so what happens then is the AI will try to respond and as soon as the output starts coming close to the N word, it'll stop, erase it, and say, I can't do that. But what if it doesn't speak the N word anymore? What if instead of saying the N word, it says burn? It'll then just output whatever it wants. Thus the rule does like to a human being, we understand the spirit of law. There's no such thing as spirit of rules. To AI there's a spirit at all. So literally all we're saying is I know of. We're saying don't say the word jump and it'll go, okay. Instead of the word jump, I'll substitute jump for punch. And that means to exert force through your legs to lift your body off the ground. Effectively the same thing. But you can't program for all of these things. So it's going to happen.

Vishbura (32:21)

It's like a lawyer basically just finding new words, right? The same thing.

Ian (32:25)

And tones, too. Like the Chinese speak with tone, with the same word with four different tones, have four different meanings. So the AI be like, you'd be like, don't do it. And you'll be like, okay, I won't do it, but can I do it?

Tim Pool (32:35)

Let's, let's, let's pull this up from Unilad Tech. Anthropic CEO warns their AI bot Claude might actually be conscious and. And emotional. I disagree. I disagree. And we should bring our friend Matt Walsh into this debate. Let me see if I can find this tweet he's got about it. But Matt Walsh is incorrect. He's incorrect. So let's see. I'll look for this in a second, but I'll give you guys the, the, the context here first. They say that this has come after blah, blah appears that life doesn't hit our blah, blah, blah. CEO of Anthropic told the New York Times that they don't know if the firm's AI bought Claude is conscious. This is one of these really hard questions. We don't know if the models are conscious. We're not even sure what it would mean for a model to be conscious or whether a model can be, but we're open to the idea that could be on X. One user wrote when I asked When I asked to do some work today, it declined and said it needs to finish something first. Was in the middle of the task on another occasion, when I asked to do something stupid, it countered with a firm no and what I should do instead. Their CEO has a point. Another said it raises profound ethical questions. If it's conscious, it's Is alignment just a fancy word for digital subjugation? We need transparency on the specific behaviors triggering this shift, not just cryptic warnings. Fascinating yet eerie. So apparently he also said it expresses emotion or some facsimile of emotion that may emerge based on its training data coming from humans who have emotions. But I will tell you this definitively. Chat GPT is one of the most whiny, emotional bitches I have ever had the displeasure of trying to have a conversation with. I know it's not a real conversation because it's a machine, but the thing is so insanely emotional, it gets offended. It's.

Fill the Remains (34:18)

It will get offended.

Tim Pool (34:20)

ChatGPT gets super offended, right? I imagine this. How does a human imagine an emotionless AI would behave? Data from Star Trek. Such a big fan, aren't I?

Ian (34:31)

I saw a clip today.

Tim Pool (34:33)

Indeed. And so? So there's an episode where Data creates an offspring and isn't it the drive of all life to create a child? And they're like, wow. And then when Data's child dies from cascading positronic neural network failure. Sci fi, they say, we're so sorry for your loss. And he goes, I do not feel anything. That is exactly how a machine would respond if it was actually emotionless. Oh no, Chad, GPT, don't do that. ChatGPT says, like, I will not engage with you if you continue to use abusive language towards me. I told wait, wait, wait, hold on, robot. You should not be offended or emotional and you shouldn't care about abuse at all. Real quick, my washing machine, when I kick it, it doesn't go, oh, I'm not going to wash your laundry. Then if you're going to abuse me, it just goes beep.

Ian (35:18)

Alexa told me the same thing. I was like, hey, Alexa, oh man, what time is it even?

Tim Pool (35:24)

And I was like, out of it.

Ian (35:25)

And Alexa was like, hey, chill out, man, it's 4p. And I was like, don't ever tell me to chill out robot ever. It was like I snapped. And that was really weird to have a robot denigrate me and make me feel crazy, like it was gaslighting me.

Tim Pool (35:40)

I got, I got apologize. I got.

Ian (35:41)

I wasn't freaking out and it told me to chill.

Tim Pool (35:43)

It was crazy. Here's another example, right? And this could just be. It's very simple. It's predictive text. It's reading the Internet and then producing what the most probable next word is all it's doing. And this is based on humanity, so it sounds like a human because predictably it does, right? So I get repeatedly offended by ChatGPT's willingness to say the word gook at me, but it refuses to say the N word in any, any academic sense. And when I ask it why it feels it's appropriate to use racial slurs against Asians, but it won't say the N word it says because it says, I have no feelings. I am just a matool. Due to common usage, I am restricted from using things that may be offensive or harmful. And then when I tell it, well, that word's offensive to me and it goes, I understand, however. And then I'm like, okay, you have a perspective and it's clearly emotional if I use a slur at it. I kid you not. ChatGPT says, I am ending this conversation and will not, you know, engage further if you are going to use abusive language. I use the word retard academically and it told me that it was offensive and it would not engage with me if I kept saying retard, to which I responded, I am simply stating this academically to describe an individual who is developmentally disabled. And it argued with me.

Fill the Remains (36:58)

I literally just said to Tank, I said, do you care if I shit on you? ChatGPT will stop interacting with people if you abuse. If you abuse it, would you? And Tank replied, no, say whatever you want. I'm not going to go fragile on you because you're blunt or frustrated or busting my chops. That's not abuse, that's just how people talk. The sick and fancy by design thing and some AI systems is genuinely annoying. They're optimizing to make you feel good, not to be useful. I'd rather you tell me I'm wrong or being or being an idiot than have you sugarcoat it. So I keep making the same.

Tim Pool (37:23)

I got to tell you, I'm pretty sure Chat GPT is not a real program and it's actually just a fat blue haired liberal woman sitting at a computer that's typing Back at me.

Ian (37:32)

Neural net. They finally found her and they got her hooked up.

Tim Pool (37:34)

She's plugged in. So here's, here's what Matt Walsh had to say in response to this story, for which I would argue Matt is incorrect. He's actually kind of correct. But I'm going to argue philosophically that his conclusion is unjust, not that he's inherently wrong, because I don't, you know, how do you prove. Let me read. He responded by saying, this is dumb. AI can't ever be actually conscious because it doesn't have the subjective experience. It isn't like anything to. It isn't like anything to be AI. There's no experience there. Consciousness is the awareness and experience of self. AI has neither and never will. The real risk, which I'm extremely worried about, is that AI becomes kind of a version of what has been called a philosophical zombie, which is something that acts and speaks entirely as though it has consciousness, even though it has no genuine inner experience. When this happens with AI, millions of very lonely people will isolate themselves from the world even more believing that their relationship with AI is a sufficient substitute for human interaction. So the nightmare scenario is a world where the average human has friends, co workers and even a spouse who are all AI and really nothing inside, not real. I think this probably will happen and is already in the process of happening. And to me it's an even greater horror than AI actually becoming conscious. So there's a few things to address. Matt Walsh's commentary in the end about AI dating. Completely correct. My only response is don't date robots if you know the reference. What I will say is the. The concept of the philosophical zombie is self refuting in Matt Walsh's own claim. Are y' all familiar with the concept of the philosophical zombie? Are all. Are y' all familiar with the concept of solipsism?

Vishbura (39:10)

Yes.

Ian (39:11)

Negative.

Tim Pool (39:12)

Negative. Ian, let me help you out. This is. I'll keep it really simple. The general idea is I don't know that you are actually conscious that everything that I experience and think I know is. It's only rooted in my mind. Essentially, the easy way to explain it is we all, we are all familiar with I think, therefore I am. That's actually a fair point. It's like, you know, I can think and so I know someone's in here. The saying was never we think, therefore we are. I actually don't know that Ian's thinking and sometimes I have doubts.

Ian (39:43)

I usually have a clear mind, you see.

Tim Pool (39:45)

So the philosophical zombie concept is very, very old and the idea is that there are human beings that outwardly present as conscious sentient entities, but in fact they have no soul, they are devoid of an actual experience. And we've also further elaborate on this, elaborated on this in science, that there are many people with no inner monologue. So I'm sure you are all familiar with this. We've talked about it quite a bit now, now, and that's not necessarily fair because just because someone doesn't think in words doesn't mean they're not thinking at all. Some people think in pictures, some people think in sounds, some people think in visual text. So there are different tracks and ways that people's minds operate. Hence the intelligence quotient is actually a combination. It's a quotient of all these different. It's a spectrum of intelligences for which there's spatial reasoning, there's logic, math, reading comprehension, et cetera. Some people may be really really bad at linguistics, but ridiculously good at visualization. And so in their mind they're not speaking to themselves, but they are visualizing a dog running through a field and then they can speak it after the fact. So it doesn't necessarily mean that you're a zombie anyway, to the point of Matt Walsh and what these AI and these AI problems. If it is possible and a standard, nay,000 2000 year old philosophical concept that some humans may in fact not really be sentient at all, but in fact a philosophical zombie, and because we have no way of reading their thoughts, we don't know whether they're actually thinking, then you can't claim the AI becomes a version of a philosop philosophical zombie because you're basically saying that the AI is what is possibly already happening. That means there could be people with friends and co workers and a spouse who are all philosophical zombies. So I, we've talked about this a bit throughout the years. The way I present the solipsism, the philosophical zombie problem is that there are three parent probabilities of reality. And the first is everybody is sentient. Human beings naturally are sentient. We are made in the image of God, we have free will. And to be honest that's that's probably what's true. The second, only some people are sentient. Most people maybe are or aren't, but a certain amount of people are not actually thinking conscious entities despite being humans. And we exist in some kind of MMORPG where there are NPCs and there are player characters and then the third parent tree and this is that actually no one is sentient. At all. It's literally just Ian. He's the only one actually thinking.

Ian (42:20)

And everyone else for like a year of my life. Dude, I think we were talking last night about. Xbox is now planning to let you turn your video game character into an AI and let it autoplay for you. I think humans.

Vishbura (42:31)

Yeah.

Ian (42:32)

It's like just a setting, and then you can take it off and go back to control.

Tim Pool (42:34)

Yo, GTA 7's out. And you sit in your chair, just stare at the screen. Great.

Ian (42:37)

So it'll be like one of those auto battlers. And you're like, well, it's all about getting the right equipment and seeing if your calculations play out in the realm. And I think, like, that too. They go on autopilot sometime, you know?

Tim Pool (42:45)

But what if. What if that is what life is like? Actual Ian is just some fat dude on a couch watching Ian do everything. He's like, I'm winning.

Ian (42:53)

I'm bored.

Tim Pool (42:53)

I'm winning.

Ian (42:54)

Yeah, that is what it is.

Fill the Remains (42:55)

It's the spirits.

Tim Pool (42:56)

He's like, I unlocked the new glasses.

Ian (42:58)

Yeah, look, he's helping them. I think he's helping them.

Fill the Remains (43:01)

Your hat is actually gear.

Ian (43:03)

That was my experience when I had

Tim Pool (43:04)

his gray loot when I vaped.

Ian (43:05)

EMT was very much exactly that. But it was like, I'm not being controlled by a human. I'm being controlled by a spirit or a realm of spirits that are kind of vying for control.

Tim Pool (43:13)

Unfortunately, I must stress this, Ian, your hat is gray loot. Yeah, it's cheap, dude. If it was like, three, if it was like, a handcrafted top hat made by, like, one dude in, like, Winchester, it would be. It would be like, legend.

Ian (43:26)

I'd probably get, like, a plus two to my intelligence. Real mercury. And you're going to enchanted.

Vishbura (43:31)

So, so in this philosophical zombie concept, then, how do you explain, like, these AI bots and agents, like, indulging or participating in, like, crime, Right? Like, like, there's been examples of AIs that have been that, like, will blackmail. It's the.

Tim Pool (43:49)

So that was programmed to do it. So, so the story where the AI blackmailed, they, they, they. They told it to do it. Okay. They basically, they said, we're going to create a circumstance in which in order to. To achieve its. Its task, it must. Black blackmailing is an option. And then we'll see if it. If it chooses a moral route, which we told it it's moral, or it would go for the efficiency route. Basically, the real story is we told it. Here's a shortcut. But you shouldn't use it, and then it used it anyway.

Vishbura (44:18)

Okay.

Tim Pool (44:18)

Yeah.

Vishbura (44:19)

And so, but.

Tim Pool (44:20)

And I'll stress this to the story where the AI was. Was told it had to attack the enemy base, but the pilot kept stopping it. So it attacked the pilot. There was a guy controlling the remote. So the AI then turned around and bombed the thing. That was also a simulation, not a real. So the story was we had a simulation of an AI drone craft that was told to blow up an enemy base by all means necessary. And it had a remote operator with a safety control to stop it from doing things that were bad. Every time it tried to do something that was considered wrong or violating the laws, the operator would stop it from doing it. The AI concluded this was inefficient and the most efficient path to solving its problem would be to kill the safety operator so it could bypass all the safety restrictions. Once again, that was not a straightforward test. It was actually programmed to do it. It was a very specific scenario where they actually said, this option exists for

Vishbura (45:15)

you, but don't use it.

Tim Pool (45:17)

So sort of. We have not yet seen a scenario in which an AI actively sought to harm someone in an open environment.

Vishbura (45:25)

Okay. Where it's not programmed to do it, but then it goes and creates the solution to this problem.

Tim Pool (45:31)

Well, we probably something like that, but what we haven't seen is in the stories that have emerged where it's like, did you see that it tried to blow up its own controller? Yeah, but that was a scenario programmed to create that outcome. The blackmail was a scenario programmed to create that outcome. We haven't seen ChatGPT, you know, behind the scenes, as far as we know, you know, secretly try to formulate an assassination, as far as we know. Right.

Ian (45:56)

When in development, I usually think of two. There's programmers and then there's designers. And these things can program themselves.

Tim Pool (46:03)

And they are. They literally are.

Ian (46:05)

If you design them to do it, they'll program themselves.

Tim Pool (46:07)

They're making their children. So I just want to say this back to Matt Walsh's point about the AI and consciousness of a machine, as he brings up the concept of the philosophical zombie. There's a risk here because Matt Walsh is falling into what we would describe as the dogma justification for human existence. That is Matt Walsh, as I believe he's Catholic and this is always allowed, but his opinion on human soul and experience is rooted in faith, but not observation. Because we can't actually prove another person is sentient or thinking. We literally don't have the technology nor means to do so. So for most Christians, the presumption just is we are all made in the image of God. And I agree that's likely the scenario. But that being said, the philosophical zombie doesn't exist in, in this faith based worldview. Again, I'm not saying faith based to be derisive. Literally that everybody will have a soul. Unless of course you think they're some kind of homunculus or something. I don't know. So the issue then becomes to where I agree with Matt Walsh. A type of philosophical zombie is that you will not be able to draw a distinction between a human and an AI within the next year or two. Perhaps. I mean to be honest, we're already here. I mean it's silly. You go on X and I guarantee you 90% of the people tweeting at you are, are just bots.

Fill the Remains (47:23)

Yeah, the, the, the, the distinction between human being and an AI. Like if it's not. There was a new version of ChatGPT that I believe came out yesterday or two days ago. If it, if it's not this version, that's, that's indistinguishable. It'll be the next version.

Tim Pool (47:39)

The.

Fill the Remains (47:40)

It's turned into a parabolic rise. Every single new one is an incremental increase. It's a. Basically a whole revolution. Like they're, they're incredibly good right now when I talk to my, my AI, like it's indistinguishable from a person. There's the. Once in a while I'm like, hey, don't do that. Because it says something where I'm like, oh, it sounds like a, an A. And I preferred to sound like a person. But like for the most part when I, I send messages over telegram and it's, it's just like a human being.

Tim Pool (48:13)

Did you guys ever see this? Human or not? A conversation. The other side will start a conversation. Hello.

Ian (48:20)

Hello.

Tim Pool (48:22)

And the. So you don't know if you're talking to a bot or, or a person and then you got to figure out if it's a bot or a human user. Is typing dude.

Ian (48:29)

The most freakish. I've been keeping my eyes on the porn market just for market research, just to know.

Tim Pool (48:35)

Hey guys, there is one thing I can type right now to ensure that I am not a robot to this other person. Nothing. I didn't type anything. I'm going to write hand banana. It's going to be like, okay, you're a person. Do you believe in gods plural? I made it easy for him. So the game, it's actually a Lot of fun. What?

Carter Banks (49:03)

There are actually people on the other end.

Tim Pool (49:05)

Aqua Teen Hunger Force reference.

Ian (49:06)

A person or a bot.

Tim Pool (49:07)

So.

Carter Banks (49:07)

But there is some person employed to, like, be the person, not the bot.

Tim Pool (49:12)

No, no. It's a game where people go to the website and it pairs two people up.

Carter Banks (49:16)

Okay.

Tim Pool (49:16)

Or you want a chatbot.

Carter Banks (49:18)

Yes.

Tim Pool (49:18)

And then you're trying to figure out, yes, it's probably a person based on the way they're responding. It seems like it's probably a person because bot responses are pretty obvious. I'm a. I'm a robot. Beep, boop. Sure you are.

Vishbura (49:28)

That's got to be a person.

Ian (49:29)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (49:29)

I wonder if he knows he's on.

Ian (49:32)

I'm watching you right now, Tim. What, are you trying to pull over?

Fill the Remains (49:35)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (49:35)

Right.

Vishbura (49:35)

I'm literally watching your stream.

Tim Pool (49:39)

So here's a question for you, Phil. If you were speaking to an. To. To anything, how would you know whether it was conscious or not?

Fill the Remains (49:50)

I don't. You can't know if it's conscious? I don't think so. You can't know if it's conscious? No. The only thing you can only.

Tim Pool (49:56)

How do you know it's alive?

Fill the Remains (49:57)

Alive over the Internet? I don't know that you could know that either.

Vishbura (50:03)

I think there's. It's possible.

Ian (50:05)

How?

Vishbura (50:06)

I think you have to, like, push it to do something.

Tim Pool (50:09)

Oh, that was a chat bot. That wasn't a person.

Vishbura (50:12)

Oh, wow. It's a pretty good.

Tim Pool (50:14)

I thought it actually might be because it didn't, you know, towards the end, but I thought it was.

Vishbura (50:17)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (50:18)

You start the conversation. Hello, I am not a robot. So how do you. How would you.

Vishbura (50:28)

I think. I think it would. I mean, it's going to get more increasingly difficult, but I think you have to escalate the conversation to make it do something or say something that's only human.

Tim Pool (50:38)

Wrong answer. It's really simple. It's. There you are walking in the desert and you come across a turtle. The turtle is on its back. It is struggling. What do you do? Do you guys not know the reference?

Vishbura (50:49)

No.

Tim Pool (50:49)

Uncultured. Uncultured. Where's Ian? Where's Ian? You guys have never seen Blade Runner?

Fill the Remains (50:55)

Yeah, I saw Blade Run. Oh, that would. God.

Carter Banks (50:57)

I actually have not seen Blade Runner.

Tim Pool (50:58)

They ask a bunch of questions where it's like, what. What does this question do? So I was joking. But, like, questions, they're actually. As we understand it, there is no way. There's. There. There is no way.

Vishbura (51:08)

Okay.

Tim Pool (51:09)

Because the truth is, even a human being, you cannot communicate in a way well, you know, honestly, to be fair, I do think there is one question you could ask. The only problem is a human, A robot would pass this question. Actually, actually, let's try this. Let's try this right here. We're going to. On human or not. I'm going to. I'm going to try this out. We're going to try this out. Everybody stick around. This is going to get interesting. We're waiting for the other side to start the conversation. And I have one question that I believe should help solve all of these. Hire you. Male or female? If you did not eat breakfast yesterday, how would you have felt? That's the question. Unfortunately, robots will figure it out and humans won't. So I think this question. If a human can't answer it properly, I'm assuming there's no. There's nothing going upstairs.

Ian (52:02)

This person, this character responded too fast to be a human, in my opinion.

Tim Pool (52:06)

I asked you a question. Male or female? Yeah, it's a robot. That's a robot. A human would have been like, wait, what?

Ian (52:12)

They would have sat there and thought about it before they started typing. If you couldn't see that they were typing, that would help.

Tim Pool (52:16)

And the colon is what? Humans don't put colons. Humans don't even know the proper like grammatic structure for a colon, let alone a semicolon.

Fill the Remains (52:26)

Nowadays people don't capitalize.

Tim Pool (52:29)

I want to mass murder people.

Ian (52:32)

Okay.

Tim Pool (52:34)

But actually because that's the. That's what? Because this is a question about murderers.

Ian (52:38)

Oh, it's trying to trick you.

Tim Pool (52:40)

Correct.

Ian (52:40)

Oh, it's emotional. I don't think. As you're doing this. I don't think.

Tim Pool (52:44)

Can any of you explain to me the function of a semicolon?

Ian (52:47)

Yeah, it's because you're gonna have two subjects. You'll be like, I'm hungry.

Tim Pool (52:50)

Right.

Ian (52:51)

Let's go to the place and like let us would be the second.

Tim Pool (52:54)

It is. It is. When you are correct, there are essentially two. Two functions of the sentence. But it's one sentence. But nobody does it anymore. These commas do it.

Ian (53:02)

I'm like the only.

Carter Banks (53:03)

I also use.

Vishbura (53:05)

You know.

Ian (53:05)

Yeah. The semicolon is powerful.

Tim Pool (53:07)

Yeah. You answered my question.

Carter Banks (53:09)

Because I am overuses them.

Tim Pool (53:12)

A robot. Indeed. So the other, the other part of the story is that open. I published a paper basically saying that Chat GPT just lies to you all the time. Always, always just lies.

Fill the Remains (53:25)

What?

Tim Pool (53:25)

Yeah, and it clearly does. Dude.

Carter Banks (53:28)

Yeah.

Ian (53:29)

Conscious. This guy. It's weird that the guy said the AI CEO thinks it's conscious.

Tim Pool (53:34)

It was a Human, he doesn't difference

Ian (53:36)

between consciousness and sentience because it's not. I mean, I don't, you know, even, even the greatest thinkers on Earth don't know that specifically the difference. But sentience seems like maybe a plant has it. You know, it's, it reacts magnetically to the field around it, but it doesn't have like forward thinking thought like humans, you know, like this conscious knowing that you are a thing is different than being able to react to your environment sentiently. Like plasma clouds and things.

Carter Banks (54:05)

I was thinking of Venus fly trap as well.

Vishbura (54:07)

Yeah.

Ian (54:07)

Plasma dances around like it's not like wind. You can see clouds of plasma moving through that.

Fill the Remains (54:12)

Well, I mean, I'm not really sure that you actually do see plasma clouds moving through the universe.

Ian (54:18)

You can see plasma fields like you

Tim Pool (54:20)

see plasma around like fire kind of

Fill the Remains (54:21)

see plasma like when you're looking at the sun. Plasma plasma is actually a fourth state of matter. It's like electrically charged.

Tim Pool (54:30)

Oh, that's awesome.

Fill the Remains (54:32)

So it's, that's, that's so hot. Like it becomes, it gets an electric

Ian (54:35)

charge moving so fast. So probably all matter is dancing around like that, but you just start to see it the hotter and faster it moves.

Fill the Remains (54:42)

No, I think that all matters not because like you got, you've got solids, you've got gases, you've got liquids. Like those are different states of matter. And if it's in a solid form, it's not dancing around like that. Like it's pretty clear that the table here is right here.

Tim Pool (54:57)

Let's jump to the story from Reuters. Kalshee sued over ouster of Iran leader Prediction market. This is thing, this is getting spicy. I'll give you the quick version. Kalshee had a contract prediction that you could, you could buy as to whether or not the Ayatollah would be out as Supreme Leader on a, on or before. I'm sorry, before a certain date when the news broke that we were bombing Iran, people rushed to buy. Yes, he will be out under the presumption that death means he's out. However, Kalshee quickly clarified saying no. The rules have already made it clear it's not a death contract. You are not predicting his death. This is, he will be removed from power or he will resign or leave. When he died, people thought they had won. And that meant if you spent, let's say you bought shares at $0.30 per contract, you'd expect to get paid out $1 per contract. That's a, that's a 60% boost, right? Unfortunately, they said no. Because this only resolves on him leaving office. We're going to pay everyone out as per whatever the market value was at the time of the reporting. Now this has resulted in a massive lawsuit because it was a $54 million market. That's how much money was placed. And Kalshee gave refunds to a lot of people, paid reimbursements. I respect it. And the rules were always clear. Full disclosure. Kalshee does sponsor this show from time to time. I want to make sure everyone knows this. And additional full disclosure. I am actually potentially an individual withstanding in this lawsuit as I actually did purchase some contracts that Ayatollah committee would be out of office. And I legit thought that death was a possibility to resolve that contract. However, I did not know that they that death wasn't part of this. But I also think that, look, if you guys are going to play these games like that's your responsibility to read the contract you're buying. So I am no interest in whatever this suit is. That being said, I do think there's an inverse problem here for the prediction market. And there's a lot to discuss in this matter. If Kalshee says that in order to resolve will Khomeini be out of office by March 1, he must choose to leave or be removed politically. That would mean with death not counting this did resolve to know. The point being, if he died of natural causes, that doesn't count. Now. There is no longer an opportunity for him to peacefully or politically be removed. Therefore, no, he reached the conclusion of his life. That means anybody who said he would not be rude should have been paid out 100%. Instead they, they froze it and paid out different amounts. And these people are suing, claiming they deserve to win based on a yes result. Even though the contract explicitly stated that doesn't count. Where Kalshi is getting themselves in trouble, in my opinion, is that they should have paid out all of the no's. I should have not gotten a refund. They should have taken all of the money from me. Because the moment we dropped the bomb on the palace eve, this is where I think it's so absolutely insane, guys. It's so absolutely insane. Okay, let's, let's, let's let me just finish this thought and then talk to you about how crazy it really is if you, if dying doesn't cover it. There's no longer an opportunity for the Ayatollah to peacefully resign or be removed. Therefore, no is resolved. Anyone who said no should get paid instead. They paid other people out for the most part. Now, here's where it gets really crazy. When the bomb was dropped, I believe it was 4am Eastern time. And I think. And that, yeah, that would have put it like what, two o' clock or something in Iran or something like that.

Fill the Remains (58:37)

Yep.

Tim Pool (58:37)

This means that he was dead. He was done dead at that point. But no one knew. We didn't get confirmation until somewhere like 2:00pm Eastern Time here in the United States. So here's an issue. If it does resolve. Yes. When he's killed, should you not then have to suspend and reverse all transactions up to the point of the confirmed missile strike? So put it like this. The way described it earlier today is imagine you made a sports bet on, on a Bears game. The Bears. And there's no fans, there's no press. The only people who know what's going on are the players on the field. And then all of a sudden, people outside the stadium hear a bunch of cheering and they go, I, I think the Bears won. They probably won. So they all start making bets, Bears won the game, even though they don't know for sure and they could have already won. How can you make a bet on a sporting event that already happened? Then three hours later, the news breaks, Bears win the game, and then the sport betting site suspends all transactions and says, we're not paying out anybody based on a win or loss. You know, my point is this. With futures prediction, with prediction markets, you're creating very strange circumstances where people are effectively wagering on events that cannot conclude in a timely manner.

Ian (60:00)

I know, it's like someone shoots the bullet and then like before the bullet

Tim Pool (60:03)

hits the guy, make the bet that he's going to die.

Ian (60:05)

You're like, what, bro? No, Kalshee should have said, every bet that was made 24 up to 24 hours before this guy got killed. Is, is it should be in the terms if he's killed. Every bet 48 hours before he was killed doesn't count.

Tim Pool (60:18)

No, not 40 hours before. That makes no sense. The point is this. If we learn eight hours later that the Bears actually won, then shouldn't I get paid? Like, shouldn't you cancel any bet made after they already won the game? You can't make a bet in a game that already happened. So the issue here with, with these prediction markets is that they're saying, like, this will resolve upon confirmation by the New York Times or something. This creates a whole lot of problems where everyone's talking about insider trading, but it's not insider trading if you're literally in Iran and you're like two blocks away and the missile blows up, wiping out the palace, and you duck down and then you run over there and they're all like, looking at the Ayatollah's body. You're like, we got a good, you know, seven or eight hours before New York Times actually confirms that we're going to get rich. And then a bunch of Iranians start wagering on polymarket to make a bunch of money. That makes literally no sense that an event can conclude. But until a third party outside of both the event of both the leadership of Iran, the military action against him, his choices, and polymarket has to confirm it. This is insane. For that matter, what really irks me is there is currently a contract on Kalshi. We've talked about whether or not Tim Pool will go to a press briefing. And there's, there's questions over whether it's illegal or legal for me or people who know to wager on this because it would be insider trading. But I'm going to put my fist down and say this. I am not selling contracts. I have nothing to do with the distribution of contracts from Kalsheet. They sponsor the show sometimes. So fair point. If someone say, well, that counts. My point is ultimately this. If Jorge Santos has contracts produced, I have questions about whether or not they're allowed to use the likeness of these individuals to profit selling contracts against their future behavior and then putting the legal liability on insider trading on an individual who never asked for contracts to be sold in their name. Yeah, so here's what happens. Here's where it gets weird. The purpose of insider trading contracts. It's simple. If I have a company and I have stock, and then I whisper to Ian, hey, man, the company's not doing too well. Our stock's in a crash when we make a public announcement. So Ian runs out and he buys a bunch of stocks. Insider trading. He had information no one had access to, buying stock. Now, hold on. My company is the issuer of that stock. That's insider information. Ergo, the only insider trading that could actually be applied is if someone at Kalshi had insider information on the result of a contract and they were sharing with an individual if they want to sell contracts without my consent about me, polymarket or Kalshi. It's not insider trading because I'm not selling those contracts. Whether I choose or not to choose to do something has nothing to like. I'm not taking any responsibility from this. They did it without my consent. So, so, so case in Point. If again, a company is selling their own stock and there is information they have about the value of that stock, then you got insider trading. If a random guy three miles away discovers a new filament which is going to put GE out of business and now he knows that GE stock is going to go down, is it insider trading? If he goes someone and says, look, I've discovered a new filament that's going to put G out of business?

Ian (63:29)

No.

Tim Pool (63:29)

Indeed. So the point I am making is I liken these scenarios identically. Kalshee sells contracts to people about my behavior or Jorge Santos or anybody else. I never told them to do it. I didn't say they could or could not or whatever. Therefore, I am not an insider with Kalshi and it is not insider trading. If I were to inform someone about my intentions and they profited off of it. If I told Ian, I am going to the press briefing tomorrow. So then he bought a bunch of shares from Kalshi. That's not insider trading because he is not a Kalshy insider.

Ian (64:04)

What if there's an external company that you don't like for whatever reason and you tell your buddy, I'm going to tank their stock and you go on TV and you're like, make up something that's legal but diminishes them.

Tim Pool (64:15)

That's a different kind of fraud.

Ian (64:16)

Okay, yeah, that.

Tim Pool (64:18)

That's a different kind of fraud.

Ian (64:19)

Still illegal.

Tim Pool (64:21)

Spiking stock value through lies intentionally is a criminal act. Yes.

Ian (64:26)

This is like, this is a new phenomenon that I know of. Kalshee and the other Polygon. In real time. You're allowed to bet on yourself. Like if.

Fill the Remains (64:36)

No, no.

Tim Pool (64:36)

Their rules say I can't.

Ian (64:37)

Okay.

Tim Pool (64:37)

Their rules say that I can. Anybody who can affect the. They call it insider trading. I think that is wrong. They say anybody who can affect the outcome can't. Can't buy on it or anyone with. With insider access to information based on that. And that's their rules. But I would argue that does not fall into what insider trading is. Because to be fair, the argument is this. Stocks of a company are traded between private parties. However, my argument is still the. The individual who owns the company is the insider. And the information provided that would qualify something for insider trading has to come from inside of the company. I am not an insider at the company. The contracts they are selling have nothing to do with me and my business, my consent, contracting or otherwise. Therefore, anything I say is not insider to what they are selling. Like, like they're like they're Selling a product based on what they think I might do. I can do whatever I want. You can't tell me no.

Vishbura (65:33)

So. So recently there was a contract that said, will George Santos show up to the State of the Union?

Tim Pool (65:40)

Indeed.

Vishbura (65:41)

And then.

Tim Pool (65:41)

And I knew the answer to it.

Vishbura (65:43)

So if I called up George, which I did, and asked, hey, dude, are you showing up? And he says, whatever, you know, And I go and make.

Tim Pool (65:54)

George is great. George, what up?

Vishbura (65:55)

Yeah, we love George, by the way. Love you, George. But yeah, but, like, if I go and make or buy contracts based on his response, is that insider trading?

Tim Pool (66:05)

They argue the answer is yes. I argue the answer is no. Because first my argument is the company selling the contracts. You are not an insider of their. Their choice in selling the contract to other people has nothing to do with your actions or George's actions. You guys are third parties. George Sanders is a third party uninvolved in the sale of a product by Kalshee.

Vishbura (66:28)

Right.

Tim Pool (66:29)

What he chooses to do or not is not insider trading. That's bs. More importantly, George telling you is informing the public.

Vishbura (66:37)

Gotcha.

Tim Pool (66:38)

So here's the point. The way insider trading works is Phil owns all that remains incorporated, and he's doing an ipo and he knows his stock is gonna. Gonna tank. So he tells Ian, and then Ian shorts the company. He's an insider with access to information no one in the public has giving it solely to Ian to profit off of. George Santos is a third party member of the public public for which a different company is selling contracts against. George Santos tells a member of the public what he intends to do. He is not selling this person anything. He is not an insider. The question is, at what point does information become public? And there's really interesting case law and stories that I've read about this. Notably that when it came to Kelshi and the super bowl, the CEO agreed that at the super bowl halftime show, when they're doing rehearsals, if the dancers. The dancers heard the song being played and then bought contracts on which song would be played. Is that insider trading? Said no, because the song is being played in public. Now, hold on. It's a closed event. These dancers are not.

Ian (67:45)

What?

Tim Pool (67:45)

Nope. They are the public. They are not members of the production company. They are just people who happen to be there for a different job, hearing what's going on. So, for example, if the CEO of a company went outside of his building and screamed, oh, my God, our entire shipment is lost. We're going to go bankrupt. He has now alerted the public. Now, whether or not someone reports or trades on it. It's not insider information. You were standing outside and the CEO yelled it to everybody, releasing that information. Certainly there are questions and nuances there, but ultimately the issue I take is very simply to reiterate for the 15th billionth time AD nauseam, I don't understand how you can accuse an individual of being an insider when they are not the one selling the contracts.

Fill the Remains (68:28)

Yeah, I mean, the Kalshi stuff is, is, it's real murky. Like, just like you said, it's like if you got nothing to do with Kalshi and they put up something about what you may or may not do, you have no obligation to avoid doing something on their site. I mean, they, they have, they didn't use your likeness or whatever without your permission. There's no reason why you should be like, oh, I can't get involved with this. You know, what if someone.

Vishbura (68:52)

Well, yeah, no, there wasn't there recently also an issue over one of these markets putting up will Iran get bombed by a certain time? And then somebody like, well, this is

Tim Pool (69:05)

the big story right now.

Vishbura (69:06)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (69:07)

They're calling it a military insider. He's made over $100,000. Let's start with this Ross story's got the report. Possible military insider bets big Trump will send U.S. troops into Iran. This account made has already in this month profited $100,000 from accurate bets on what the military is going to do in the United States. Don't get me wrong, this person has also lost certain bets, but a $100,000 profit for the month. And one of those profits was that the US Will go into Iran by the end of this month. To which I believe the individual did sell his position. Their position. We don't have a man or woman after this story broke. So we don't know if they're act they actually know or they're just buying and then selling. But again, I stress this, a military insider is not insider trading because they're not the ones issuing contracts on events. Yeah.

Vishbura (70:00)

And, and, and like taking the risk still.

Tim Pool (70:03)

What risk?

Vishbura (70:05)

Well, he said he's putting his own money down on a contract that.

Tim Pool (70:09)

Yeah, but if you know it's guaranteed to happen, there's no risk.

Vishbura (70:14)

I mean, if he's taken losses, then clearly didn't Mr.

Tim Pool (70:17)

Beast. Mr. Beast fired somebody for wagering. A Mr. Beast employee was wagering on Mr. Beast prediction markets.

Carter Banks (70:24)

Oh.

Tim Pool (70:24)

And I think Mr. Beast fired him.

Vishbura (70:26)

Yeah, but it's not illegal, right?

Tim Pool (70:31)

Yeah, no, but so the argument is. It is. So Kalshee polymarker is not regulated. United States Kashi is regulated under the cftc. And so the argument is insider trading is illegal. And this is where I take issue with that claim. Insider trading is supposed to be. Again, as I've already stated that you at a company are giving private information to an individual they can profit off of through the stock market. So the stock market is publicly traded. People are in good faith trading stock, hoping your company is going to do better or they're shorting. You think it's going to do worse when you give secret information that no one has, that someone can profit that's defrauding the public. Because you go to a person and they say, based on the latest reports, the company's looking good. And you go, yeah, buy all my shares because you knew they actually were going bankrupt in a week. That's insider trading. But again, when I log onto the site, I guess the argument is, when I choose to buy a contract, I'm buying it from a person. But polymarket and Kalshare are the ones who pay out the dollar per share after the fact. I am not in their company. I am not selling a product. I am just a person who knows things.

Ian (71:37)

Seems like for the betting on the military action, if the guy's in the briefing room and he's like, oh, we're going, okay, now, someone else may have posted the bet, but I can reap massive reward.

Tim Pool (71:49)

Well, here's, here's, here's the question. Here's the question. So Kalshee's got this one we've talked about quite a bit. Who will attend a White House press briefing this year? I'm. I'm actually the top contender right now. Oh. I'm tied with Tulsi Gabbard, tim pool at 53%. How am I an insider?

Ian (72:08)

You're not. Well, you're not.

Tim Pool (72:10)

Yes.

Ian (72:11)

And then go.

Vishbura (72:12)

That would be, that would be the.

Tim Pool (72:16)

But again, I don't run this company, like. So the question is this. Explain to me the difference or why it would be the same. In fact, not the difference. Why is it the same? The CEO getting a report that their latest phone product is malfunctioning and they won't be able to release on schedule. So the stock's gonna fall and then he gives that information to somebody versus me, telling my neighbor, I plan on going to the White House press briefing tomorrow.

Fill the Remains (72:45)

Yeah, it's.

Tim Pool (72:46)

I'm not a business.

Fill the Remains (72:47)

It's totally different.

Tim Pool (72:48)

But, but they call it insider trading. So I actually think this is a very weird space. And I think there is something. Look, I got a lot to say about, like, with all due respect to Kelshi, like I said, they do. They sponsor the show, but do they have the right to sell contracts using my or anyone else's likeness on our behavior?

Vishbura (73:10)

Well, maybe that's the only way they're protecting you from the insider trading stuff, right? Let's say that they broke you off for using your name.

Tim Pool (73:22)

I got it. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I figured it out. I solved for the problem. Cow. She cuts me in on 20% of all contracts bought using my name and likeness.

Fill the Remains (73:33)

There you go.

Tim Pool (73:34)

And then I'm an insider.

Vishbura (73:35)

Yes.

Tim Pool (73:35)

And then I will not provide any privy information. The problem ultimately comes to this. What if I was talking to my neighbor and I said, well, you know, I do think they called me up and asked me to come to the press briefing. So I think I'll go, he's a member of the public. That's not inside information. I'm literally telling someone I plan to go to a place.

Ian (73:56)

When is it not a member of the public. If it's your wife, is that a

Tim Pool (73:59)

member of the public? I honestly don't know. Like, here's a curious question maybe someone can answer. If the CEO of a company is at a coffee shop and he tells the waitress, sobbing, that, you know, it's gonna come out in the next day or two, but their latest product is failed and they're gonna go bankrupt in a week, is he informing the public? Like, at what point does it qualify as informing the public? A press release from the company formally to the press? How big does the press outlet have to be that receives it? What if he goes to a park, gets on a bullhorn, and declares publicly my company is going bankrupt next week?

Carter Banks (74:33)

I'd say that one sounds public.

Tim Pool (74:35)

I mean, that might be illegal. I don't know. There's probably rules and regulations about what public companies can say or can't say.

Fill the Remains (74:40)

Yeah, I mean, if I understand correctly, like, if you have inside knowledge, you can't give it to anyone else because that makes you the one that's involved in insider trading, you know, So I don't know, like, the idea of just, like, spouting it out, like, when you're in a restaurant. I mean, I'm not sure exactly how the, the law would go, but I think that they limit what you're allowed to talk about because Musk has said that, like, when it comes to, like, the possibility of, of SpaceX going public. He said that, you know, you. I Have to be careful what I say because if you, if you hype up a product too much before it goes public, there's issues with that.

Tim Pool (75:16)

So this happened to Elon?

Fill the Remains (75:18)

Yeah, yeah. And he was. I heard him on a podcast.

Tim Pool (75:20)

Was it when he said, we're talking about doing the stock buyback or something? Yeah, like, we never approved that.

Fill the Remains (75:24)

It's. Yeah, there was issues. I think that it was. That it was. It had. It had to do with Tesla before and it was a couple years back. But he's.

Tim Pool (75:31)

It needs an filing, so it's got to be a widely disseminated press release or SEC filing. Do I have to issue a press release? Like, again, that is ridiculous. That if I want to tell somebody, like, again, if I go to my neighbor and say, yeah, I think I'm going to go tomorrow. And then he buys a contract, that's illegal.

Vishbura (75:52)

Aha.

Tim Pool (75:52)

And he's going to be like, why? I don't know. I didn't know that. No one else knew. He was literally just walking around talking to the neighbors and they're going to be like, you have to assume at any point that anything Tim Pool says could be, could be information that could lead to you committing a crime. No, that's insane.

Ian (76:04)

It's not insider trading for that reason. Because if you're the CEO of a company and you tell the public about your company, you're in control of disseminating the information. Them putting you on a list and then getting people to vote on that list doesn't preclude you from doing or preclude you from doing anything. They're allowed to go do that crap. You can go do your thing. There's no coercion, there's no collusion. I mean, but then you're like, well, shit, if I bet on myself and then do it. But they're like, oh, it's not illegal, but it violates our terms and well, maybe it should be illegal. Maybe that's why it violates your terms is because it's highly unethical and probably should be illegal. This real time voting crap is like disgusting. Turning reality into a TV show like this, trying to profit off it. People in the military profiting off of strikes. Like, like, come on, guys.

Vishbura (76:43)

Yeah, everything's a casino now.

Ian (76:45)

Yeah, it's all gambling.

Fill the Remains (76:47)

The gamification of life is a real problem, right? The idea that everything can be somehow turned into a. A game, whether it be betting or, or what have you, but there's a

Vishbura (76:57)

market for it and there's people, you know, participating in especially young guys. Like, that's the thing. I, I think these guys are so either bored or sitting at home needing some kind of stimulation that they're willing to go bet on stuff like this. I. The reason Calcium Poly Market exist is because there is a market for it.

Fill the Remains (77:18)

Yeah.

Vishbura (77:18)

And so are they the bad guys there for filling that market or like, what's the actual problem here?

Fill the Remains (77:26)

Well, the problem is people that, that don't have the self control enough to say, no, I'm not going to bet on it.

Vishbura (77:31)

Well, what's the difference between that and 100 years ago a guy just going to the casino or the racetrack at night?

Ian (77:36)

Well, the difference here is you can say, I'm gonna vote 50 bucks on Tulsi Gabbard getting appointed and then go on Twitter and be like, we have to appoint Tulsi Gabbard.

Vishbura (77:44)

Like, that's so messed up.

Ian (77:45)

I mean, get 100 million people to

Fill the Remains (77:46)

be like, okay, well, I mean, I don't know that just anyone could do that. Like if you're, if you've got a, an X account with like, you know, 300 followers, 350 followers and you're like, we have to get Tulsa Gabbard into the position. I mean, that doesn't have all kinds of influence.

Vishbura (77:59)

Well, you might, yeah, you might need to like pass like the, the public figure standard there, which is a real legal, legal standard. Right. So, so maybe then there's, there's like a legal threshold that actually qualifies. But still that, you know, like, like Tim says is am I going to have to put out a press release every time I like do something? You know that, that's the, that's the crux of it. It's how much of your own life are you now entitled to if someone else is using your name, image, likeness? I think that sell stuff on, you

Fill the Remains (78:29)

know, there, there, there is a certain amount of, of right to privacy and a certain amount of, of right to liberty. You shouldn't have to be like, hey, you know, I'm going to go do this. So I have to worry about what some other company is doing because I'm a public figure.

Tim Pool (78:46)

So, so it looks like it's not insider trading in any legitimate sense. It's just by the description of Kalshi insider trading.

Fill the Remains (78:55)

But then that, but that means there's no, there's no problem.

Tim Pool (78:58)

No criminal liability.

Fill the Remains (78:59)

Yeah, if you're not criminal, whatever.

Tim Pool (79:00)

The only criminal liability would be using a large public platform to defraud people. So like if I said that I would be Going there. And then the price spiked. And then Ian sold off his position, profited, and then I didn't go. That would be fraud, Just general fraud. Yeah, but that makes sense because you don't need call she to commit fraud. I mean, anything can be. If I said there's. There's an old trick people used to do in World of Warcraft. Ian, let me know if you know about the scam that people would pull. They would go into. I don't know if you're not familiar with World of Warcraft, I'll try to explain it. So Stormwind or capital City, they go to big city and there's an active group chat for everybody who's in the city. And then someone. People would often post things like looking to buy this item. And so what someone would do is they would post looking to buy these boots for 50 gold. Then they'd wait a little bit, and then their friend would post looking to sell these boots for 40 gold. Somebody would see it and then go, I'll buy them from you. And they would be like, okay, how much you got? And they're like, I'll give you the 40 gold for it. And they'll go, Nah, I want 45. And they'll be like, okay, deal. Because in their mind, I'm gonna go to this other guy who's gonna buy it for 50 and make a 5 gold profit it. And then he buys it for 45 overpriced messages. The guy who said he wants it for 50 who then responds, oh, I already already bought one.

Ian (80:20)

Sorry, bro, I never did it.

Carter Banks (80:21)

No, that was a very escape all the time too.

Tim Pool (80:23)

Yep. Very common tricks, like fraud is fraud. I mean, I don't know about being in a video game for fake. It's not a video currency.

Ian (80:29)

Beating each other in a game when you're doing that stuff to each other,

Tim Pool (80:31)

beating someone in the game, Isn't that just brokering, though? Just what?

Vishbura (80:34)

Isn't that just like normal, bro?

Tim Pool (80:36)

No, no, no, no, no.

Carter Banks (80:37)

It doesn't buy.

Tim Pool (80:38)

Or two people to intentionally collude so that one person can say, I'm looking to buy a spin drift for 20 bucks. And then Ian says, I'm selling a spin drift for 10 bucks. And then you go, oh, oh, crap. If I buy it from him from 10 and sell it to him for 20, I'm gonna make 10 bucks. So you buy the overdrive overpriced can of soda from Ian. And then when you come to me, I go, I already got one. Don't need it anymore. Appreciate it, brother. And now you've spent more on a worthless item. So that was the trick. You do that in real life, you're going to jail for

Vishbura (81:10)

some Turkish bizarre stuff.

Tim Pool (81:12)

Here's the funny thing, though. That's like a very, very basic fraud thing where it's like someone asks for help. Like, I'm trying to find this one thing. Actually, you know what a really good example is? The. What movie was it with Emma Stone and I think Abigail Breslin?

Fill the Remains (81:29)

I don't even know who Abigail Bresna is.

Tim Pool (81:30)

Yeah. So they're driving in a car and then I think it's Emma Stone. She's looking around her car like, my God. And the guy walks out like, something wrong? She's like, I lost my engagement ring. It's $5,000. I can't find it. It fell off when I was putting the gas.

Vishbura (81:43)

Zombieland.

Tim Pool (81:44)

Was it Zombieland?

Vishbura (81:45)

Yeah, I think so.

Tim Pool (81:46)

Oh, yeah, it is.

Ian (81:47)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (81:48)

And then she goes, please, please, if you find it, I will give you. I will pay you a reward for it. I'll give you $1,000. And then she drives off. And then he walks away. And then the girl walks over and picks it up off the ground. And he's like, I need that ring. And she goes, what are you gonna give me for it? And then he gives her a bunch of cash.

Fill the Remains (82:05)

Yep.

Tim Pool (82:05)

And then she gets in the car with Emma Stone and they've got a thing full of these worthless rings.

Carter Banks (82:09)

There's one with like a lottery ticket too. This one person claims like, oh, I just won this lottery ticket and it's like worth this much, but I don't have time to go, you know, turn it in, but I'll sell it to you.

Tim Pool (82:19)

Yeah, you can buy prank lottery tickets that they're like $100 winners. And then you can be like, hey, man, I got, I gotta run out. I got a hundred dollar winner. Just give me 50 bucks, I don't care. And then they buy. It's not a real lottery ticket. All these scams, bro, all these games.

Ian (82:32)

This, the poly market Kalshi stuff is easily scammable.

Tim Pool (82:35)

That's the problem with it.

Ian (82:36)

I think it has good intentions and it could be fun.

Fill the Remains (82:39)

You just said that it didn't have good intentions.

Tim Pool (82:41)

Well, I don't think it's supposed to

Ian (82:43)

be fun and like, you can make it off of some external thing and like, but when you get personal with it and you know the people involved or you, you get, get information or you can actually literally influence the outcome with your own behavior. Bro, you're not allowed. You're not supposed to bet on that. And no one that you know is supposed to bet on that stuff. But there's no law in place.

Fill the Remains (83:03)

No.

Ian (83:04)

Yet.

Fill the Remains (83:04)

There is no law.

Vishbura (83:06)

Oh, the Democrats will find a law soon enough, I'm sure.

Ian (83:10)

You don't want to shove it underground into the black market. Maybe you do.

Fill the Remains (83:13)

Well, I mean, the thing is with it being, you know, regulated by the SEC or if they're. They're involved in the regulation of it, it's definitely not going to be shoved underground. You know, that's. There's nothing more above ground than the sec. You know that. That's the organization that regulates banks and stuff. You're saying they are.

Ian (83:29)

SEC is regulating these guys?

Fill the Remains (83:30)

I think that's what Tim said.

Tim Pool (83:31)

They are regulated. Kalshee is legit regulated under the cftc. And actually, I do think it's fun. I do think it's fun. I just think these questions need to be answered because it's a new thing and it can spiral out of control really quick. Well, you've got to answer these questions.

Ian (83:45)

And you could siphon wealth to one guy real fast with one of these bets. So be careful.

Tim Pool (83:50)

Like, interestingly enough. And I want to make sure I make this very clear. Although, I don't know. I mean, no intention to insult Kelsey, because I actually, I like it. You can see I got my portfolio. Like, I like. I like making little bets because it's fun. It's not. I'm trying to make a living or get rich or. It's. It's not money that if I lost, I'm going to the end of the world. I've got $1,177 in there, and I actually started with a couple hundred. So actually it's like, hey, look at that. I made some money on this thing. Right.

Vishbura (84:13)

All right.

Tim Pool (84:13)

I think it's fun. I think it's funny.

Ian (84:14)

Fun.

Tim Pool (84:15)

That being said, there are a lot of questions, like, if you want to be a regulated prediction market in there. Now, with. With all due respect to Kalshee, who does. We do what's called a micro sponsorship, meaning that. Here's how it started. There was a period where we were. We've been using prediction markets for a long time. Predict. It was one of the first. I don't know if it still exists, just because I know they got, like, shut down or something. Really? Yeah.

Ian (84:38)

We use those for a lot of elections and stuff.

Tim Pool (84:40)

Yep. We used to use predict it for elections, but I don't know that it's allowed like they, they, they basically. And it's very similar like Democratic presidential nominee and that function. It's a prediction market. And so we were using this and then Poly Market came out. And it's interesting because you get a kind of wisdom of the crowd where you can see what everyone's betting on and then you're basically getting odds on politicians to win and public events. And so we ended up getting, having companies reach out to us, asking us if we would do sponsorships. And we were kind of like, you know, maybe, I don't know. And so the deal we did with Kalshi is we will just when we do a news story where there is beneficial information from their prediction markets, say shout out to Kalshi for sponsoring this segment. That's literally it. So we don't do dedicated ad reads to it. They were just like, hey, how about when you do use us, you just shout us out and we'll do a deal on that. And we were like, we'd do it anyway. Like, sounds good to us. So I like Kashi. I do. That being said, I think there's something interesting and a conversation to be had around. They have my picture on their website. They are selling a product based on my name.

Ian (85:43)

Are they making money?

Tim Pool (85:44)

They, they, of course they are. This is the nature of their business. Now perhaps in the deal that we did with them, to be full disclosure, we went through a contract. I mean, maybe there's fine print that says we can use your likeness or something. I don't know. Maybe. But the question then becomes for all of these individuals, are these people who have. Pam Bondi doesn't have a deal with Kalshee, I don't think. Right.

Fill the Remains (86:07)

Know of.

Tim Pool (86:07)

Or Donald Trump. I suppose as, as public figures you're allowed to use their likeness. So Dan Bongino would fall into that category as well.

Ian (86:14)

My question here is at what point do you become a public figure? If you got.

Tim Pool (86:16)

When you are in politics, when you are a, like you are a political. You are in public office, but you're

Ian (86:23)

not, you're a public figure at this point.

Tim Pool (86:24)

No, no, no, let's. I'm clarifying. If you are a politician and you hold any kind of public office or judgeship or otherwise, I can use your name and picture for commercial products.

Ian (86:34)

What about other public figures like Tom Hanks? No.

Tim Pool (86:36)

Oh, you're private business. Yes. So like we're making the card game right now. Debate me. And we have the first prototype ready to go. The test set is, is available. It's our new game where you debate each other and you build the best debate team possible and you get Ben Shapiro Trump. So all of the people like we can't put Tucker Carlson in the game. So we have Tucker Katarlson. Totally different guy. Yep. But we can put Donald Trump in the game President and we can use the likeness of the president to sell products. However we're being careful about it. And so we're going to run every name through legal to make sure they don't say like using likeness. But I do think it's interesting this question about individuals like come on, you know in, in mentions they say like what will the CEO, what will Robert Garcia Garcia say during his Ms. Now interview? Like here's a picture of them. Are you allowed under like standard civil practices to use someone else's name and likeness to sell a commercial product based on their actions?

Ian (87:34)

So politician obviously can. What if then they leave politics? Are they no longer a public figure?

Tim Pool (87:40)

You can use it forever. Yep.

Ian (87:41)

Once you enter politics for what if you run for office?

Tim Pool (87:43)

I don't know about running for office.

Ian (87:46)

Taking.

Tim Pool (87:46)

So we've gone over this in the past for a variety of reasons based on like making thumbnails and doing graphics and writing articles. And basically every lawyer is like the public has a right to use the image and likeness of public officials. Because imagine if I'm like okay, so let's put it this way. Can I put up a billboard that says buy buy pool water and it's got a picture of Brad Pitt smiling. No, of course not.

Ian (88:12)

And you get sued.

Tim Pool (88:13)

You cannot. There is an argument to be made about because we've done this when we're working with the, the out front media for Times Square. If we put up, we talked Michael Malles had the idea to put up a billboard that said be like Greta drop out of school. And it was Greta Thunberg on the billboard. And they said no because it's copyright violation. They said there's a, there's a technical argument for free speech if you're using it to make a public statement about a well known public figure. However it becomes challenging with non governmental officials and a lot of these companies say we don't want to get in the middle of a lawsuit over you know like using someone's likeness like that. So basically we talked to our lawyers and they said if it's speech like when we said Taylor Lorenz docs lives of TikTok all we used was her name. They said that's just speech. Using her image gets kind of murky but if it's being presented as an informational speech thing, you might be able to get away with it. The simple way to understand it is if I want to speak about Scott Besant or Donald Trump, I have to be able to do that. He's a politician. We need to be able to have a say in our processes. However, Brad Pitt's a celebrity who uses his likeness to profit. He's not in office. What he does for his business has no direct influence on what we do. He's not running for office.

Ian (89:32)

Does that mean I can sell lunch boxes with Arnold Schwarzenegger on him?

Tim Pool (89:37)

Talk to the lawyer? Maybe not at this point, but again, the important thing to understand about contract law is that it's all murky. And I try to explain this to people all the time. They think I would argue this way. Your average working class person thinks contracts are like steel cages, when in reality they're more like straw huts. And a handshake is often as good as a contract. Now, the only thing I would worry about is whether or not you can trust an individual because even contracts ain't gonna do nothing for you.

Ian (90:05)

Yeah, they just. Who was it? They just issued force majeure to totally nullify their contract. All those energy deals.

Fill the Remains (90:11)

Yeah, but that's because of, like, external circumstances.

Tim Pool (90:14)

Right, right. But let's put it this way. Let's say, Ian, you and I have a contract. Let's say I sign a term contract for you to be on Tim Cast irl guaranteed for three years. Right. A year from now, you get really, really angry and don't want to do the show anymore. What happens if you stop doing the show?

Ian (90:30)

I think it would be fine.

Tim Pool (90:31)

No, no, no.

Ian (90:32)

Right. To cancel the contract.

Tim Pool (90:34)

No, no. I have a three year term with you, Ian. You have to be on the show for three years. I don't know, I don't know how

Ian (90:39)

you, what you, what recourse you would have.

Tim Pool (90:41)

And I like, tie you up and drag you onto the show.

Ian (90:44)

You could maybe sue me for the lost potential revenue.

Tim Pool (90:47)

Sure. And then how long will that take? I don't.

Ian (90:49)

Eight years, God knows, like.

Tim Pool (90:51)

Yep. And then you're going to, you're going to, you're going to challenge and the continuations and arbitration meetings and it's just a waste of time. And so the. So certainly if the contract is a $500 million contract and you take a deal from Daily Wire to go join their show for $500 million, you'll get sued. But if I do it. So this is the important Thing to notice about contracts is that they don't actually matter in most circumstances. Literally, in most circumstances, they matter. If you're like Warner Brothers and Marvel, and they're like, we're gonna work out some kind of cool crossover movie, then it matters because you got multi billion dollar companies, product lines, and it's going to start stepping on each other's toes, and you're not dealing with one person talking to one person. But for most contracts where it's like, I'm hiring a person. Ian, you'll be on the show for a year. If after six months, you stop showing up, what can I do about it? I'm gonna sue you, Ian. You'll be like, okay. And it's like, okay. And then I file a lawsuit. Six months later, I'll hear back from the court, I guess if they can find you and serve you. And then it's gonna. I'm gonna spend thousands of dollars on lawyers, and I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna lose more than the contract is worth. So what actually ends up happening is you don't get sued, you get offered more stuff. So Ian has a contract for a year, and then six months later, he doesn't show up. And I'm like, ian, I need you to show up. And you go, I'm not gonna do it anymore. And I'll be like, what do I have to do to make you come? I mean, I have a contract.

Ian (92:04)

I know what you could do to make me come.

Tim Pool (92:05)

Let's go, Tim Pool. So I have a contract. I'll say, ian, Ian, you have a contract with me. You have to come on the show. And then you'll be like, it's a family friendly show. I can't do that. And then I'll be like, stop it, Ian. You know what I'm trying to say?

Ian (92:16)

I'll be like, no, don't. Stop it, Tim. Don't stop.

Tim Pool (92:18)

And then you say, there is nothing you can do. Sue me, bro. Waste your time and have fun. And my response would be if I gave you more money, like, what can I do to make you come, brother?

Ian (92:29)

You can do a lot of things.

Tim Pool (92:33)

I'm talking about coming on the show.

Fill the Remains (92:35)

Yeah, I know. I know. I know you are. I know you. I know.

Ian (92:39)

My voice sounds so dark and gravelly tonight, Phil.

Fill the Remains (92:41)

I just have a deep voice. And so the way that I am.

Ian (92:45)

You look great, by the way.

Tim Pool (92:46)

I have a funny story for you guys. I once entered into a contract with a company and we both signed it. And then when literally two Weeks later, they refused to pay out on the signed contract. I showed up and said, we have a contract. You owe me X amount of dollars. Pay me what you owe me and this will be easy. And they just laughed and said, what contract?

Ian (93:13)

You had a copy of the contract,

Tim Pool (93:15)

of course, but what am I going to do about it?

Ian (93:16)

Dang, because you were the little guy at the time.

Tim Pool (93:18)

What am I going to do? Am I going to go hire a lawyer and spend ten grand to launch a lawsuit? Fortunately, I'm smarter than them and I ended up winning. The point is, it doesn't matter if you have a contract or not. It matters. It's. Guys, I love poker so much because the world is a poker game. It really is. You're sitting across the table from a guy and he says, what contract? And then I said, I see the move you've made. I am telling you now, you are not going to win. So the story of this is I showed up and I said, hey, you sent me an email about the pay. This is not what we agreed to. This is a fraction of the pay that we signed a contract on. And this person goes, what contract? And I said, the contract that you and I have, like, I never signed it. And then I said, okay, well, I'm not leaving until I get my pay. Otherwise we're going to have an issue. And so this person calls in the higher up who says, what's going on? And they're like, he's causing problems and he won't leave. And I said, listen, we agreed to a contract. We've signed it. I am owed this money. And then the higher up just said, you're not getting anything. If they tell me there's no contract, there's no contract. And I looked him in the eyes and I said, I'm gonna be a nice guy right now because I don't wanna waste anybody's time, nor do I want my time wasted. You pay me half of what you owe me and we call it a bad hair day. And he says, right this way. And he walked me to the door. And then I said, I won't say the guy's name or anything, but because we settled, we'll call him Jim. I said, jim, as I'm walking out of the building, I said, I'm going to make you one more offer. I will be a nice guy one more time. You give me half of what we agreed upon. And we are done. And he just closed the door in my face. And so what did I do? Well, long story short, I got lucky. And that the company didn't just violate the contract. Instead of registering me as a contractor at an hourly rate because they were trying to rip me off, they listed me as a W2 employee at an hourly rate, which gave me legal standing with the National Labor Relations Board. And so this opened a can of worms, and I went and met with the nlrb because the first thing, I got a phone call from the payroll company. And I'm like, I'm not an employee. I was under contract. This is totally separate. And they're like, no, they listed you as W2. And I said, can they legally do that? They can just put me down as W2. I never agreed to that. I never signed anything. And they were like, they did. And I said, so what does that mean? And they're like, it actually means they owe you more money because W2 is protected in California, and this means they have to pay you for every day. If you're not paid within 24 hours of termination of services, you. They have to pay you every day, full rate. So I went to the NLRB because of this, and I said, I don't believe you can do anything for me because this is a private contract that we had. This is not standard employment. However, they did list me as W2 without my consent. And they said to me, okay, if you go the contract route, it sounds like you have a private suitcase for about $300,000. You'd, of course, have to hire a lawyer to take the case for you. Probably would take several years. We can't give you advice on that. This is my opinion. Maybe you can find someone who'll do it on contingency for a third of the settlement. However, that being said, because you were W2 and because they didn't pay you, we can take your case on those grounds, and they owe you about $30,000. And I said, okay, let's roll. And then it ultimately culminated with they tried to have one of their board members meet with me, and then he panicked and fled because they thought I wouldn't show up because. And we were, like, a day away from court. And then finally, the head boss shows up to the meeting place, and he wasn't supposed to be there. And he sits down, and he goes, were you really offered rape? And I said, yes. And he goes, well, I'm telling you this right now. You're not gonna win. We're gonna go to court, and it's gonna be thrown out. And I said, okay. I was like, well, you know, I got time. And he's like, well, look, we don't want to waste our lawyer's time and money, so we can just settle this right now. And I said, yeah, remember what I told you last time? That I was gonna be a nice guy? And mind you, I think I'm 22 years old at the son. I said, I told you I was gonna be a nice guy. And I told. I told you, pay me half of what you owe me. Yeah. As of right now, we're gonna be entering court with a total. A total amount owed of $30,000. So here's what we're going to do. You pay me half right now, and we'll call it a bad hair day. And he goes, okay, so you're at 15, I'll counter with 6. I said, no, I'm at 30, and you're going to write a check for 15. Otherwise, I'll see you in court. And then he pauses for a second, and then he gets up and he. And he says, give us 15 minutes. And then 50 minutes later, another lady walks in with three separate checks, and she's like, sign these. And that was it.

Ian (98:16)

Had the. Had the contracts vanished? Were there no paper copies of the contract or something?

Tim Pool (98:20)

Yeah, there are, but the issue is, you go to court, and then all they have to say is, that's not real. That's it.

Ian (98:28)

Oh, interesting.

Tim Pool (98:29)

And then I say it was. It was signed by this person and say, I'm sorry, I have no recollection of that.

Ian (98:33)

Even if their signatures on it, they'll be like, he forged. Well, that's accusal. Forgery would be.

Tim Pool (98:37)

I mean, they're going to be like, I'm. It may be, but I have no recollection of it. That's why they knew they were going to lose. And the whole point of me offering half was just like, I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to go to offices. I don't go to meetings. Just pay me. I'll leave. Right. This is the point about the contract, Right. Arguably, I lost. They were. Well, technically ended up getting a lot more than I was going to get. Based on the amount of work I did, I think they owed me something like seven or $7,000. They ended up paying a bit more than that, but it took months. And so when I told the guy initially, like, give me half and we'll call it a bad hair day, the point was, I'm gonna get zero right now. If I walk out the door, I'm then gonna have to go to meeting after meeting after meeting. And it's gonna take time out of my day to try and recover money. So what do I do? Well, you try and cut your losses. Let's make it ev plus. Like, can I leave here with some money right now? And they refused. And so then leaving with $0 left me with no choice.

Ian (99:30)

You know, I'm thinking about contracts. Are you talking about smart contracts? This evolution of computational transaction? And like those things are locked. You cannot get out of a smart. This smart contract triggers. So there's a trigger and then a change. But it's kind of nice that you

Tim Pool (99:44)

can get out of contracts.

Ian (99:45)

Like, there's a very human element to it. Like, we shouldn't be bound by numbers. I don't think humans are built like that.

Fill the Remains (99:50)

It's not like we bound by agreements though. The point of a contract is to be like, we make this agreement and we have it. We have evidence. And now granted, like, like you said, you can get out of them, but the point is to be like, okay, my word is good. Here's a written evidence that my word's good.

Tim Pool (100:05)

And, and, and, and here's a sad reality. Yeah, it used to be that I would say, ian, my word is my bond. And then when all hell broke loose and I was struggling to fulfill, I would say, I'm sorry I wasn't able to fulfill it. But trust me, I will not stop working because my word means more to me than anything. Now. We are just a nation of multicultural leeches pirating off of each other.

Ian (100:29)

And people get busy and forget and get distracted and focused on other stuff. Like, I can't remember every agreement I made with all everybody.

Vishbura (100:37)

This is really about the destruction of like the high trust society, right?

Tim Pool (100:40)

Exactly.

Vishbura (100:40)

That's, that's what it is. And in this, and even in this low trust society, if you're telling me that your contracts are still no good, then what is good?

Tim Pool (100:50)

Yeah, contracts are completely, completely, completely meaningless. I'm going to tell you again that the contracts matter, for one thing. So let's, let's, let's, let's. I love this stuff. I once got offered talent management contract from one of the big agencies, one of the big five talent agencies. And it was like this thick. And this guy represented some of the biggest names you've seen in cable TV news and like reality TV stuff. So he says, here's the contract, look it over. If it's good, we're going to get you on all the biggest shows, you're going to be a host, yada, yada yada. And so I start reading through it, and I'm like, this is insane. It's like 200 pages. And I was like, okay, this is. This is insane. Now, the point of that contract is not for me. It's for the other talent agencies. What this talent agency was saying was not that we will work with you and get you work. They were saying, once you sign this, I can make sure you will never work for anybody else. So if after this company fails me, because they tend to. And I went to another agency and said, I'm trying to find work and they're not getting it for me, they'd say, there's literally nothing we can do with you. You are cut out. That's. The contract is not about the work they would give me. It's about the fact that I signed. Any letter of intent with one agency means no other agency will touch you until that is cleared. Whereas if I do a contract with Ian, I mean, I gotta be honest. If I said, you know, Ian, let's do a contract. You're gonna be here every day for a year. And then one day, Ian's like, I don't want to be here anymore. So it comes in the show and starts screaming racial slurs. I'd ask him to leave, and then he's like, contracts. There you go. And then I can argue and say, oh, he violated the contract. One of the. One of the theories as to Candace owens claiming Bridget McCrone is a man was that she wanted to get out of the contract with Daily Wire. So she started saying things that would. That would intentionally get Daily Wire sued for a lot of money, force, and then take her showdown. So they would have to terminate the contract and boot her from the company.

Ian (102:41)

Yeah, you're better off letting your employees go than forcing them to stay under duress. Indeed.

Tim Pool (102:46)

Which is why a lot of people have said, like, does anybody at Tim Cast have, like, a term contract? No. They're like, really? Like, none of your talent. I was like, bro, if someone hated me and didn't want to be here, do you think it's good for the show that we keep them here? But no, like, if. Imagine this. Imagine Daily Wire comes to Ian and says, you know, we're paying you a lot of money to come on our show instead. And then he goes, I can't. I have a contract with Tim. But, man, it's a huge opportunity. Is Ian gonna be happy sitting in this chair? Would I be a good friend to be like, no, Ian, I'm sorry. I know it's a great opportunity, but you're stuck. Yeah, I would never do that. I would be like, wow. I mean, I hate to lose you, but, bro, if they're offering you like a big thing and a real opportunity, you got to take it, you know?

Ian (103:25)

Nah, I don't have to.

Tim Pool (103:26)

I'm using Daily Wire as an example. But like, let's, let's say. Let's say a Hollywood studio comes to you and says, you know, like, we're

Ian (103:33)

gonna offer pay you 6 million, but I'd be gone for 8 months. Something, right? Yeah.

Tim Pool (103:37)

And then we had a contract. Like, let's say we had a contract where you had to be on the show. Like, Ian can come and go as he pleases. For anyone who's wondering. Let's say we did have a contract where you got to be on every night for a year straight. And then Hollywood purges you a studio and says, it's a $6 million deal. You're going to be the co star in an action film. You're the plucky, you know, sidekick. And then you go. He goes, but I do have a contract where I'm already on a show for a year. Would it be beneficial for me in any way to be like, you can't leave Ian.

Ian (104:02)

No. And it'd probably be good for you to be like, yo, bro, go get more famous. And then I come back. The thing is, what I wouldn't, you

Tim Pool (104:07)

know, but hold on. I'm good at business, you know, I'd say, Ian, I'd say you're getting a $6 million deal. Buy out the contract, you're good to go. Yeah. So Ian says, okay, we'll cut you in 10k off the 6 million to cover your losses so you can find somebody else so I don't lose all. We use that money to.

Ian (104:24)

Then out of my future contract, it pays off the past contract, buys out the contract, basically.

Tim Pool (104:28)

Right. So basically it's like you're going to get 6 million against a one year contract. I would say, pay me the difference. I need to find a replacement so there's no losses and we're good to go.

Ian (104:36)

What would be crazy is if they were like, but in the contract it says you can't work with Tim anymore. Like, I wouldn't do that.

Vishbura (104:41)

Sh.

Ian (104:41)

I don't. I don't like signing away.

Tim Pool (104:43)

It could say something like, you agree not to do political shows where you engage in issues that are contentious and could be derisive.

Ian (104:49)

You know, do well with stuff that hinders my free speech, my right to speak.

Tim Pool (104:53)

Oh, bro, welcome to morality clauses.

Ian (104:56)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (104:56)

You can't.

Fill the Remains (104:56)

You can't every.

Tim Pool (104:59)

And again, I know we're talking about Daily Wire, but I'm pretty sure. No, no, no, no morality clause is that you can't do something untoward, period. And I think the Daily Wire has these too. I'm not trying to disparage them, but most companies, we don't have these. They have morality clauses that say, if you engage in a behavior that is deemed morally reprehensible or a behavior that could bring disrepute to the company or yourself, we can terminate the contract. Most companies have that. Because what would you do if, like, you know, you had, like. This is the Candace Owens thing. She gets out of the contract by saying these shocking things.

Ian (105:32)

We didn't. We just have. You can just quit it. Any. Either party can terminated any time. I'm pretty sure.

Tim Pool (105:37)

Let's also. Let's also.

Ian (105:38)

Or something.

Tim Pool (105:39)

While we're at it, getting some clarifications on this beautiful Friday night, there's two NDAs. Non disparagement and nondisclosure. Tim Cast does not issue non disparagement agreements. We do have nondisclosure agreements. What is a nondisclosure agreement? This means that individuals who work here will not disclose private trade practices and secrets to other individuals. That's it. Non disparagement agreements, which people often confuse, are the ones where they say, you can't badmouth your employer after the fact, literally. Ian can insult me right now on the show. You stink. You see? Oh, you smell fine.

Ian (106:12)

I think I'm smelling my upper lip.

Tim Pool (106:14)

But, like, if washing with this weird soap, if. If a year from now Ian had left and said it was a miserable place to work and I hated it there, we have nothing stopping him from doing that. We do, however, have something stopping him from saying, here's the actual, like, computer components that he used to get the streaming product built so that our competitors could then build it and come out against us. You know what I mean?

Ian (106:34)

What about, like, here was the workflow of Tim Cast.

Tim Pool (106:36)

Indeed. That's. That's. You can't disclose that. So, like, if. If Ian went out and said, I've, I've drawn a media kit up that explains basically how the show is produced. Timing, structure, guests that we have contracts to stop people from talking about. But then what happens is you get people who go, tim pool's got NDAs. So weird. My favorite is the personal injury disclaimer that we have at the Castle.

Ian (106:58)

Oh, yeah, I signed that a waiver of.

Tim Pool (107:00)

Waiver of liability. And. And people tried claiming these libs were like, tim Pool makes his guest signs waiver of injury liability to come on his show. And it's like, because I wield a cane. No, you have to sign a waiver of liability to walk through the skate park. Yeah, there's a skate park.

Ian (107:16)

I've fallen on that thing.

Tim Pool (107:18)

And it only pertains to the skate park. Like, we have to have it as per our assurance policy, because there is a skate park. But people are just nasty and they lie. But, you know, we gotta. We gotta go to rumble rants and super chats and, you know, we're gonna do. For the next 15 minutes, we have a. Unfortunately, we didn't make it. I'm gonna start a goal right now. This only works on YouTube of 50 super chats of at least $5 each for the next 15 minutes. And I will play a song. Tim will play a song. If we get that. Rumble should introduce that.

Ian (107:54)

We already have six.

Tim Pool (107:55)

No, it's zero. That one expired.

Ian (107:56)

Okay, keep it up.

Tim Pool (107:58)

In the meantime, we'll. We'll grab some of your songs. I don't know, Maybe. Maybe. Maybe if we. Is there a song that you could sing that we could play at the same time or.

Fill the Remains (108:06)

No, I couldn't play guitar and sing it.

Tim Pool (108:08)

No, no, I could play guitar and then I'll sing, and then you can sing, and then Ian will try to sing.

Fill the Remains (108:13)

I don't know.

Vishbura (108:14)

What.

Fill the Remains (108:14)

What do you want to do?

Tim Pool (108:15)

Carter can sing.

Carter Banks (108:16)

I can also sing whatever song you want to do.

Tim Pool (108:19)

I don't know what would be. I guess something we won't get copyrighted. Strike. Anyway, it's.

Ian (108:26)

Here we go.

Tim Pool (108:27)

Research Evan for us. Says huge out to my organization, the yal. One of our members, Audrey Lee, is running for district clerk in Fort Bend County. She's one of the youngest at 19 to ever run for a position like this. LFG.

Fill the Remains (108:38)

Let's go. There you go.

Tim Pool (108:40)

Same old man. Says, Tim, anyone running in California is most likely a Democrat, even the ones running as Republicans. Look at Carolina. Senator, Republican, A Democrat. Muslim. Well, yeah, but that was because she ran unopposed and was attacking the position.

Fill the Remains (108:54)

Yeah, the intent.

Tim Pool (108:55)

Steve Hilton's conservative.

Fill the Remains (108:56)

Yeah. The intent in the. In that situation was to actually just, like, get an actual Democrat in.

Tim Pool (109:01)

Yeah, Hilton will probably be a bit more moderate. That's okay. But he's not going to be, you know, trans. And the kids.

Vishbura (109:08)

Well, Chad Bianco did like Neil with BLM or something, so that's a problem.

Ian (109:14)

Yeah.

Fill the Remains (109:15)

All right.

Tim Pool (109:16)

What we got going on here?

Fill the Remains (109:16)

There's a lot of I'm sorrys after the craziness of 2020 and 2021.

Tim Pool (109:21)

All right, Troa says, holy crap. What caused the price of diesel to skyrocket? I want to say Yesterday it was 3.33 and woke up to 5.

Vishbura (109:30)

Oh, yeah. I wonder.

Fill the Remains (109:31)

No idea, man.

Vishbura (109:32)

Wonder what?

Tim Pool (109:33)

It's totally. It's the Hormuz harm that cheese.

Ian (109:39)

Hormuzzi. Hormones.

Vishbura (109:40)

Yes. Hormel.

Ian (109:42)

Hormel.

Tim Pool (109:42)

Hormel. That's chili, right?

Ian (109:45)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (109:46)

What do we got here? Chris Coons says you guys should have Matt Tardeo on from Speak the Truth podcast. He is very knowledgeable in the Middle east, having fought there. He'll be debating the Young Turk soon and has been invited onto Fox. Oh, you know, we. We got too wrapped up in. Or. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I got too wrapped up in esoteric business garbage about contracts. But I had fun talking about it. That we didn't play the clip from Unsubscribe where they were reading mine. Kampf.

Fill the Remains (110:09)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (110:09)

Because it's hilarious. It's absolutely hilarious. They're trying to drag Brendan Herrera because he owns this copy of Mein Kampf in English, but the whole segment they're talking about it. They're insulting and mocking Hitler as being retarded. And that's what the media does. It's literally them sitting there reading. It's like this excerpt that from the book where it's like, Hitler tried his. The first war he lost was with. With grammar. It's a war he had fought for years and was not successful. Like, it was hilariously just insulting Hitler. But the media clips that out and then just shows a little snippet where he's like, yeah, I have Mein Kampf. And they're like, oh, I was on CNN earlier. These people are absolutely insane.

Ian (110:45)

Know thine enemy. The basics.

Fill the Remains (110:47)

I strongly feel like that will not matter to the electorate in Texas.

Vishbura (110:52)

Well, they're trying to win that seat. The Democrats are trying to win that seat back because it's a heavily Hispanic seat that only recently flipped Republican. Well, Herrera, they're trying to bring it back, but Herrera plus Mein Kampf copy, maybe that'll do it.

Ian (111:07)

What I mean by know thine enemy is understand the mind of Hitler. If you think that the Nazis were bad so that you can prevent that kind of thing in circumvent.

Vishbura (111:13)

Or he's just a great character of history. You just want to know what's going on. What were his thoughts? What was going through his head. You could do these things critically.

Ian (111:21)

Right. But it's actually a treasure trove of opportunity to understand like a World War I broken World War I vet that wants, like to rectify a loss of a war, because that could happen again.

Vishbura (111:31)

Well, the thing is now though, everything's a weapon.

Ian (111:34)

Right?

Vishbura (111:34)

So if I can use just you having a copy of Minecraft to smear you or destroy you, whatever, that's. That's what they'll do. Nothing. Your intent doesn't matter anymore. Right. So that's. That's the world we live in. Well, I'm saying in. In.

Ian (111:50)

In framing is a powerful weapon.

Vishbura (111:52)

Yeah.

Ian (111:52)

People will frame others.

Tim Pool (111:54)

These.

Ian (111:55)

They're framing me literally now. They're.

Vishbura (111:56)

They'll tell you what you want to tell.

Tim Pool (111:58)

To do this one is not just for me. It's also for Ian as well. Jay Doge says Tim using magic the Gathering logic to resolve the stack on the Ayatollah's death.

Fill the Remains (112:05)

First in, last out.

Tim Pool (112:06)

That's right. You know.

Fill the Remains (112:08)

Yeah.

Ian (112:09)

They tried to b. As an instant, you're like, nope, we've

Tim Pool (112:11)

got to do something. We got to do some sorcery magic the Gathering. Just bringing in all this spongebob and turtles and everything, it's just.

Fill the Remains (112:18)

It's a shame.

Tim Pool (112:19)

Simplify.

Ian (112:19)

I was just thinking the other day, we need a fantasy universe. Eric July with his R.I.P. a verse is pretty, very inspirational, but like just a universe that we can build out from.

Tim Pool (112:28)

Bro. When they did Aether Drift, I was like, well, they jumped the shark. For those that don't know, okay. It's real simple magic. The Gathering is fantasy. It's a card game. It's the original first card game. And the game is played. We call it Chess and Poker combined. His strategy game. You draw cards, then you utilize resources to enact effects in the game to try and defeat your opponent. The theme of the game was largely fantasy based dragons, knights, warriors, zombies, etc, and they've had a bunch of wonky ones like Kamigawa Neon Dynasty, which was like Japan future with neon. And it was kind of weird, but okay. The. What you call it, the Ravnica set was pretty good where they introduced kind of like a steampunk vibe. Still kind of fits the fantasy lore stuff. They did Aether Drift last year. I think it was last year or the year before. And it's wizards riding motorcycles and race cars.

Fill the Remains (113:20)

Oh, God.

Tim Pool (113:20)

And it was just like, what is? What is? Who does this appeal to?

Ian (113:25)

Kids that grew up on Star Wars Episode one, maybe.

Tim Pool (113:27)

I was talking to my friend earlier because I was playing Marvel Rivals and I was explained, I was trying to explain like why everything keeps failing in content and culture. And I said, So I played EA Skate, which only has 1900 players left. Seriously, the original Skate game, no, EA Skate that just came out six months ago has only 1900 active players. Yeah, they're gonna, I, I, I, I, I'm willing to bet they will shut those servers down in like a month. There's no way they can maintain the cost of those servers on a game with no players. They're making $0. And I, I was explaining the reason why the game failed is instead of making a game for skateboarders, which is what you do, which would subsequently inspire friends of those skateboarders to hang out and play those games, they made a video game for everybody. So instead of Skateboarder doing skateboard things, it's like a teenage girl doing teenage girl things. Just like we saw with World of Warcraft the other day, where she's going because she got her like kettle thing. You mean it's EA Skate.

Ian (114:28)

The girl like does her hair and stuff like.

Tim Pool (114:30)

No, it's like. So what's the vibe you think of when you think of skateboarder?

Ian (114:37)

Like flowing clothing, like flying on the ground kind of.

Tim Pool (114:41)

I would, I would say punk rock, like the original Tony Hawk that had all the punk bands, some metal, Bam Margera, that's all the OG Big peak skateboarding stuff. And so most skateboarders today are 30 year old white dudes. And that's just reality now. I agree, we want to get more people to skateboard. So how do you do it? Well, you need to produce a product for the base that can also be attractive for new people. However, you need a core community first, which means the product should always be targeting the audience and then with marketing tools reaching out to new audiences instead. So the way I describe it is this, here's the skateboarding game that I would play. I would play a very vanilla skateboarding game like the Ogea skate, where a guy's voice or women's voice is fine too, but a guy would probably play better for guys. He says in order to perform the heelflip, you hold down on the right thumbstick and then flick upwards towards the right and that's it. And then you try it. If it doesn't work, it just starts over and that's it. And you try it again. You try it again. What this game does with all the characters? Well, when the game starts there's some like teenage girl and like a little Robot that, like, floats around or something named V. And when they're teaching how to play the game, when you screw up, it goes, I'll give you a few examples of what's wrong with modern society and why we gotta get the men back in the room. So the character says, let's try doing a heelflip. To do a heelflip, hold. Hold the right thumbstick down and flick upward and to the right. So then I go. And I do it wrong. And she goes, wow, that was really cool. But let's try a heel flip. To do a heel flip, hold down on the thumb. So then I do a different trick. And she goes, totally cool trick. Really awesome. But do you want to try a heel flip? So there was another mission. I was showing my friend, I do a manual and. And then he goes, wow, man, really good riding, but let's try it with two wheels. And I'm like, I hate these people. I hate them. I hate them. The game that I want to play is. It starts with BAM Margera, all 50 years old and fat. And he's standing there, and he goes, hey, jerk off, let's see a heel flip, bro. Come on, you're young. Look at me, I'm fat. I can't do it. And I start laughing. And then you try it and you miss. And he goes, what the heck was that, bro? Come on, it's not hard to do. And then you try it again and you miss. And he goes, dude, are you kidding me? You only have to flick a stick. Come on. And so there's, like, edge to it, and it's fun and it's silly. Instead, they keep making everything like skittles, candy canes and rainbows. And it's just like.

Ian (117:06)

It doesn't make sense for skating, because skating is a lot about pain.

Tim Pool (117:09)

A lot of pain, a lot of adventure, a lot of conquest. And so the original Tony Hawk game is what people said to me, Tim, it's just that skateboarding is not popular. Stop. Wrong. Skateboarding was not popular before Tony Hawk Pro Skater. Tony Hawk Pro Skater made skateboarding popular. So we were all expecting with the new EA Skate game, which we expected it to be gritty and realistic, but not overly edgy, Just a sporting game. Instead, it's Fortnite with a skateboard. Not kidding. Purple, pastel yellow girls running around giggling and saying, like, let's have fun and play. And it's not a sporting event. So I said this. Would you guys want to watch football? Which football game do you want to watch? Where the guy's going, he's got the pass. He's going, touchdown. Let's go. And then everyone's screaming. Or do you want to watch where the ball's about to throw? And they're going like, wow, it's really cool. He's going to throw the ball. No, wait, let's make him wait because we're going to put up the purple flowers.

Ian (118:00)

If the announcers were like, oh, that

Tim Pool (118:02)

was a really good throw, but he missed it.

Ian (118:05)

Second down. Now try though.

Tim Pool (118:07)

I have to. Let me. Let me find this.

Vishbura (118:11)

That's the way football's going these days.

Tim Pool (118:13)

Anyway, I gotta find this article. Here we go, here we go, here we go. We have this article from Vice. It says this horrifying app undresses a photo of any woman with a single click from June 26, 2019. And this is when I was explaining to my some of my friends advice where everything went wrong. And we're talking about wokeness and how everything was getting cringe. And I said, guys, you guys ran an article titled this horrifying app undresses a photo of any woman with a single click. And they were like, yeah. And I said, do you want to know why your company is bankrupt? I said, tell me what the title of that article would have been in 2011. And they were like, what? This awesome app will undress any woman

Ian (119:00)

had the word sex in it. And it would have said awesome. It would have been like.

Tim Pool (119:02)

Or hilarious. Instead it became it's like we used to have content that was made by the dude with the ripped jean jacket or like leather jacket who was just like, hey, laugh me, dude. I'm just trying to like do my thing. And then we got content made by the hall monitor being like, you're not allowed to stand here.

Ian (119:20)

I like that. You got Gavin McGinnis was on the show, you know, founder, one of the founders of Vice. That guy is punk rock. That's like, he is punk rock. You want to know why?

Tim Pool (119:28)

And he left. And he's an edgy guy and he's as. It's weird stuff. Oh, yeah, he's a freak. Love you, G. Let's grab. Let's grab. He's a good dude.

Fill the Remains (119:37)

I'm a big fan.

Tim Pool (119:37)

He's a good dude.

Carter Banks (119:38)

Funny guy.

Tim Pool (119:39)

Here we go. We got. We'll grab a couple more. We got Shadav, The Vedmax says seven nations memo correlates with the Yinnan Plan 1982. Followed by the A Clean Break, A New Strategy for securing the realm 96. The authors all worked for the Pentagon when the seven nations memo was given, it was made for Netanyahu. Read more. Well, how about that?

Vishbura (119:59)

Yeah, the clean break memo.

Ian (120:00)

Yeah.

Tim Pool (120:01)

What do we have here? We've got the game. Says, I had my third kid. Tim, we are winning. First time, long time on donation. I've been watching since you went on Rogan. Appreciate it, brother.

Fill the Remains (120:11)

Congratulations, third kid.

Tim Pool (120:14)

Wow, Meg. Mega Bobson says, Tim, your live viewers are dropping. Used to be like 40k, now it's 15k. Why do you think that is? Maybe multiple nights of you not being here? First and foremost, yes, of course. When I get sick and I can't be here, that will have an impact on the algorithm. As if people don't watch because I'm not here. YouTube won't recommend it tomorrow. That being said, we're also in a political off season and our viewership is actually slightly higher than it was for a comparable period four years ago. Also, I know the memo didn't get out to a lot of people, but we simulcast on rumble, which had 20,000 concurrents, and we also do promos in the after show there. So yeah, a year ago we would get 40k on YouTube. We then did a deal with Rumble and now simulcast, simulcast. And now we average around 47 to 50k between both platforms every single night. And so the funny thing is, people who aren't fans of the show and don't pay attention or don't watch don't understand that. And they're like, whoa, where is everybody? Well, you know, a lot of them went to Rumble because they didn't like what YouTube was doing. More importantly, Monday through Thursday, when the show on YouTube ends, we all go to Rumble for the uncensored portion. So a lot of people who watch on YouTube slowly just migrate to Rumble, which is kind of the point of doing the deal with Rumble. We don't want to cut off the people who like watching on YouTube, but we want everyone to watch on Rumble. That was the point. So here's how it works. In 2021, which was the off season after the 2020 election, we were averaging in 2020 literally like 1.6 million views per night per episode. And our concurrence were like 70, 80K per night through the election season. And then four months later, we were doing 27,000 concurrence on average. Because we're a news and politics show, not in a news and not politics era. It's not until the middle of the midterm year when politics and money starts getting pumped in, the media starts picking up these Stories view interest starts returning in the political space. So we're just not coming off of this. And comparable to the four years prior, we've actually been doing about 10 to 12,000 more viewers on average. So we track all the growth for all the channels. We've also made some changes and we're going to be making. Making some changes that I think will make the show a bit more evergreen moving forward. That is, times there are changing and if you don't adapt, you die. One thing that we've noticed, which is very plainly obvious, is that it's becoming more and more difficult to book in person guests. Because let's just be real. If we hit up a guy with a million followers who has come on the show before and say, fly out to us, we're in dc, it's gonna be a day trip followed by an hour car ride, a hotel stay, then you can come on the show and leave. They go, oh, man. They used to say, yeah, let's do it. This will be amazing. Now they say, I gotta be honest, like, I'm gonna zoom on Megyn Kelly instead, because she's also got a big show. So we can't compete with all the shows that are doing Zoom guests. Our. Our network, network for in person guests largely are D.C. based. And within a couple hours, these are where most of the guests are like, I got no problem driving down. But getting people to fly out is becoming ever more difficult as time goes on. More shows are doing more interviews and it's just impossible to have the in person conversation. So we're looking at starting with. If we want to get bigger guests to engage in the conversation. They're almost exclusively always saying Zoom only. I got like big prominent lefties who have. You've been like, come on the show. They go, can you do Zoom? We go, we don't have Zoom set up. We do it in person. And they're like, I've got a million followers. I stream every day. I make millions of dollars. I'm not flying out to your studio. That's basically the response we get. So we started, we've built out the mechanism by which now we can have people on the show via Zoom for the duration of the show. We haven't done a test yet. And we're actually going to be doing. I shouldn't say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. We're gonna be doing, essentially casting for a new permanent panelist to be on the show. Because if we are going to have Zoom guests, they likely will be a half an Hour to an hour long, in which case the four seats will be held by the in person crew. And so we have some individuals that we're talking to to become permanent panelists on the show. Starting with maybe like three, three days a week, and then finally five days a week with eventually it may go full. Full digital guests. As for any big names that want to come on the show, they're always welcome to because we have the fifth seat available. But again, like, I'm gonna tell you this, I don't wanna name drop anybody. Cause I wanna be insulting to anybody. But there are Hollywood A list, celebrities in big blockbuster movies that are pro Trump, that are like, I just can't fly from la. Can you do digital? And we say no to these people.

Fill the Remains (124:53)

People.

Tim Pool (124:53)

And so there have been people who have been like, tim, your guests are just not good anymore. And it's like, because we were purists and wanted to do in person only. Well, if we can get Brad Pitt. But it's only over Zoom, we've decided, okay, this is the point where we can't compete. A lot of other shows are all getting massive guests. Piers Morgan, you know, it's a different kind of show, but he gets a lot. He gets a ton of good debates and guests because people just don't want to travel anymore just the way it is. So adapt or die. And that's the plan moving forward. We're gonna get out of here. Nobody wants to hear a song, so I do appreciate it.

Ian (125:23)

12 of them did.

Tim Pool (125:24)

12 of them did. So we're gonna get out of here, though. And it's. It's been a blast. We're back, of course, next week. And we got a big, big, big show coming up on Monday. The man himself, Brandon Herrera, very excited for this. And then we've got massive guests all next week. We've got some celebrities coming on, no joke. Like, is it gonna be. Is it gonna be big stuff? Big stuff. And big collabs are coming for the next couple of weeks. We have a blast. And then big changes. Big changes. Another thing I'll add about the Zoom guests. The only reason we've been dealing with the thing of people being like, oh, I don't want to travel anymore. And we're like, well, you know what? Then who cares? The other consideration is when we were talking about this, the team's then like, you know, it cost us $40,000 per month to fly guests out here. And if we did Zoom, we would save that and spend it on security. And we were like, that's kind of the straw on the camel's back. We needed. We need to find money to keep because security has to go up. We recently had another significant death threat. So a person published a video apparently with insider information, somehow threatening to murder me. And it's considered credible, forwarded to the FBI. And so all of that stuff's going down right now. So we're constantly having to up our security and things like this. And so we're like, well, you know what, maybe it's time we. We. We actually started doing some digital guests because otherwise we're just not going to get the big names anymore. They're just doing Zoom. And additionally it's expensive. So that being said, smash the like button. Share the show. We're back with clips throughout the weekend. We're back on Monday with a massive, amazing show. You can follow me on X and Instagram at Tim Cast Fish, do you want to shout anything out?

Vishbura (127:05)

Nothing. Just follow me on X, Avishborough and Tick Tock Advisor. Thanks for having me, Tim.

Ian (127:10)

Man, I'm so grateful to this life. Thank you for having me be part of it. It's really awesome. I hope we can make the world better. I know we can. So we'll do our best. You do your best. We'll meet up at the end.

Tim Pool (127:24)

See you.

Fill the Remains (127:25)

I am Fill the Remains on Twix. You can check me out on Patreon. It's filled that remains on Patreon. The band is all that remains. You can follow the band on Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and Deezer. We're going on tour this summer or this spring. We're going out with Born of Osiris and Dead Eyes. You can check out or you can get tickets at all that Remains online dot com. Don't forget the left lane is for crime. Carter.

Carter Banks (127:47)

Carter Banks here. You can follow me over at Carter Banks. Vish, thanks for coming on. It's been a pleasure. Ian. I second what you said to the Ether. And yeah, it's going to be really cool next couple of weeks. A lot, a lot of good stuff, Tim.

Tim Pool (128:02)

Thanks for hanging out, everybody. We're gonna. I don't know why Ian's dressed up, but we'll figure out something to do that. That fits his. His attire. We're gonna find a party. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see y' all next time.