Democratic Party In CIVIL WAR Over Loss To Trump, Liberal Media BREAKS w/Cenk Uygur

Summary

Podcast Summary: Timcast IRL – "Democratic Party In CIVIL WAR Over Loss To Trump, Liberal Media BREAKS w/Cenk Uygur"

Release Date: December 4, 2024
Host: Tim Pool
Guest: Cenk Uygur (Founder of The Young Turks Network)

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Introduction

In this episode of Timcast IRL, host Tim Pool engages in a candid and heated discussion with Cenk Uygur, the founder of The Young Turks (TYT) network. The conversation delves deep into the internal strife within the Democratic Party following its electoral loss to Donald Trump, the fracturing of liberal media, and the broader implications for American politics.

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Democratic Party in Conflict

The episode kicks off with Tim Pool outlining the current turmoil within the Democratic Party. Since Trump's resurgence and the Republican sweep, the Democratic Party has been grappling with its identity and future direction. Key points include:

• Leadership Struggles: Debates over whether to purge leftist elements, adopt a more moderate stance, or reinforce establishment positions.

  Tim Pool [03:00]: "There's a coming civil war in the Democratic Party over who is going to be in charge and whether or not they're going to eliminate the leftist elements..."

• Public Disillusionment: Prominent figures like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher openly criticize Democratic hypocrisy, particularly concerning Joe Biden's pardon of Hunter Biden.

  Cenk Uygur [04:24]: "Democrats have a moral perch from which they can judge without shame."

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Critique of Liberal Media

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the perceived decline and bias within the liberal media establishment. Both Pool and Uygur express frustration over media personalities who once supported Democratic ideals but have now turned critical, especially in light of Biden's actions.

• Hypocrisy and Broken Promises: The media's flip-flopping has eroded trust among Democratic supporters.

  Cenk Uygur [05:10]: "Mainstream media sucks and probably will be even worse than the people that I just mentioned."

• Media Manipulation: Uygur criticizes media outlets for selectively editing interviews to portray left-leaning individuals negatively.

  Cenk Uygur [67:14]: "They just took everything that Joe Biden says without any context and made him look horrible."

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Media Trust and Shift to Online Platforms

The conversation shifts to the broader issue of declining trust in traditional television news and the rise of online media platforms. Pool references a study by Neiman Lab highlighting that trust in news has plummeted in areas where TV news consumption has decreased.

• Decline of Television News: Reduced viewership of TV news correlates with decreased trust in media.

  Tim Pool [56:58]: "They are saying, wow, in the places where people don't watch TV and turn to social media, trust has declined. They interpret it as if not watching TV news causes distrust, ignoring that it's likely due to TV news being untrustworthy."

• Rise of Independent Media: The emergence of platforms like TYT is seen as a response to the failure of mainstream media to provide unbiased reporting.

  Cenk Uygur [69:50]: "The money's shifting in a big way and the dam is going to break. That's where I agree with you most, Cenk."

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Policy Debates and Internal Disagreements

A substantial segment of the episode focuses on specific policy issues and the internal disagreements within the left regarding these topics.

• Hunter Biden Pardon: The pardon is dissected as a symbol of Democratic hypocrisy, with Uygur and Pool debating its implications for the party's moral standing.

  Cenk Uygur [05:29]: "The pardon sweeping, covering offenses that Hunter Biden has committed or may have committed over the past 11 years."

• Statehood and Representation: Discussions on the complexities of granting statehood to territories like Puerto Rico and D.C., highlighting concerns over political power plays.

  Cenk Uygur [33:17]: "We need to follow the Constitution. If Puerto Rico votes for statehood, then process it normally, just as Alaska and Hawaii were admitted."

• COVID Policies and Public Health: The episode touches upon the handling of COVID-19, lockdowns, and the political fallout from pandemic-related decisions.

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Discussion on Genocide and War

Towards the latter part of the episode, the conversation intensifies as Uygur and Pool engage in a contentious debate over international conflicts, specifically the Israel-Palestine war.

• Genocide Accusations: Uygur labels Israeli actions in Gaza as genocide, citing high civilian casualties and the forced displacement of Palestinians.

  Cenk Uygur [87:34]: "Gaza is a slaughterhouse. 44,000 dead, 104,000 injured... that is a genocide."

• Comparisons to Historical Atrocities: Uygur draws parallels between Israeli actions and historical genocides like the Armenian Genocide, emphasizing perceived double standards in global media portrayals.

  Cenk Uygur [89:53]: "They killed members of the same family in three different instances. That's extrajudicial and unconstitutional."

• Host-Guest Tensions: The heated exchange underscores the deep ideological divides, with Pool challenging Uygur's definitions and justifications.

  Tim Pool [91:50]: "There is no genocide in Ukraine according to your definition."

  Cenk Uygur [94:36]: "Israel is a terrorist state. It's a rogue state."

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Conclusion and Final Insights

As the episode wraps up, both Pool and Uygur reflect on the necessity of open dialogue and breaking down ideological barriers to prevent further polarization.

• Call for Unity: Despite their disagreements, there's a shared belief in the importance of civil discourse to safeguard democracy.

  Phil Labonte [71:02]: "If you can talk to people that actually do want what's best for the country, we can have a more civil political discourse."

• Optimism for Independent Media: The success and growth of platforms like TYT are viewed as hopeful signs for the future of unbiased and independent journalism.

  Cenk Uygur [79:15]: "The money's shifting in a big way and the dam is going to break. That's where I agree with you most, Cenk."

• Encouragement for Open Conversations: Both hosts emphasize the need to engage with opposing viewpoints to foster understanding and prevent societal fracturing.

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Notable Quotes

• Cenk Uygur [05:29]: "The pardon sweeping, covering offenses that Hunter Biden has committed or may have committed over the past 11 years."

• Tim Pool [56:58]: "They are saying, wow, in the places where people don't watch TV and turn to social media, trust has declined. They interpret it as if not watching TV news causes distrust, ignoring that it's likely due to TV news being untrustworthy."

• Cenk Uygur [87:34]: "Gaza is a slaughterhouse. 44,000 dead, 104,000 injured... that is a genocide."

• Tim Pool [91:50]: "There is no genocide in Ukraine according to your definition."

• Cenk Uygur [94:36]: "Israel is a terrorist state. It's a rogue state."

• Phil Labonte [71:02]: "If you can talk to people that actually do want what's best for the country, we can have a more civil political discourse."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Timcast IRL provides a raw and unfiltered look into the fractures within the Democratic Party and the liberal media's integrity crisis. Through the passionate exchange between Tim Pool and Cenk Uygur, listeners are offered a nuanced perspective on the evolving landscape of American politics, media trust, and the imperative for genuine dialogue in an increasingly polarized society.

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Note: This summary aims to capture the essence of the podcast episode based on the provided transcript, highlighting key discussions and viewpoints without endorsing any particular stance.

Transcript

[Tim Pool]

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[Cenk Uygur]

Well, I was about to say welcome like I own the place. Thank you, brother.

[Tim Pool]

Who are you? What do you do? Everybody knows who you are but you know you got to introduce yourself so.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, well, hostly Young turks founder of the TYT network, also founder of Justice Democrats Wolf Pac Cavalry pack ran for president as you know and overall trouble causer.

[Tim Pool]

Well, Radon, it's an honor and privilege to have you here, sir. Appreciate it. We got Elad hanging out.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Hey everybody, what's up? My name is Elad Eliyahu. I'm a field correspondent and Jewish affairs correspondent here at Timcast News. Tomorrow I'm actually going to be checking out a protest outside of the Supreme Court where we'll be hearing moral arguments in a major fight over Tennessee's ban on so called gender affirming care for minors. So look out for that. What's up Libby?

[Libby Emmons]

I'm Libby Emmons. I'm with the Post Millennial and Human Events dot com. Glad to be here. Hey Phil.

[Phil Labonte]

Hello everybody. My name is Phil Labonte. I'm the lead singer of the heavy metal band all that Remains of an anti communist and a counter revolutionary.

[Tim Pool]

Tim, let's start with this story from Mediaite. So Jon Stewart says f the norms and he issues a scathing supercut slamming Joe Biden's hypocrisy in pardoning his son and Democrats defending it. I got a clip for you. And let's we'll start with this one where I don't know what the point he's making but you know, it's funny to see faith in the rule of law. Finally.

[Cenk Uygur]

Democrats have a moral perch from.

[Tim Pool]

Which they can judge without shame. Hypocrisy or nuance.

[Libby Emmons]

Breaking news. President Biden has issued a pardon for his son, Hunter Biden.

[Cenk Uygur]

Mother, we were so close. But you know what?

[Tim Pool]

Good, fine.

[Cenk Uygur]

It's good. It's right. It's his right.

[Tim Pool]

He's an 82 year old man, doesn't want to spend the rest of his life visiting his son in prison. Republicans get away with this shit all the time, I'm sure. The pardon is a narrowly written, precisely drawn farewell note of compassion for a loved one.

[Cenk Uygur]

The pardon sweeping, covering offenses that Hunter Biden, quote, has committed or may have committed or taken. Pardon over the past 11 years.

[Tim Pool]

11 years is very specific. So you get the point because we've talked about this. But what I find largely interesting here is the audience laughing. Jon Stewart expressing his incredulity, I suppose at the notion of an 11 year pardon. But this is just one example, right? There's another story I can easily bring up here to make this point. Charlamagne, the God says Democrats have lost the moral high ground after Hunter Biden pardon. And also he previously said that he felt like the Democrats were lying to him. So we are seeing a break in multiple parts for the Democratic establishment, the party and its and its media apparatus. Prominent liberal personalities saying, I think I was lied to. Prominent personalities having called them out the year or longer before all this is going on like you Cenk, and even running for president saying Biden can't win. And now Jon Stewart, people like Bill Maher all acting like, I'll just put it this way, many personalities saying all of a sudden, hey, we feel like we are being lied to. Ezra Klein coming out and saying this. And the big question then is, what does the Democratic Party turn into? Is it going to go far left AOC squad, or is it going to go establishment? Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, or is there something else?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. So first, let's start with Jon Stewart and Charlamagne. So those are my guys. I love those guys. Those are allies. And so they deserve credit for saying that Joe Biden was old when apparently people thought that was outrageous and scandalous. And Jon Stewart did a segment on it and everybody got super mad at him. Like when I do it, they expect it. They're like, oh, okay, there's that annoying guy who keeps telling the truth. Okay, shut up. We're all lying. We're all lying. He's young, dynamic. Young, dynamic. Just say it, say it, say it. Right. So, so, but when Jon Stewart said no, not young and dynamic, obviously old and in mental decline, people Were super furious, Charlamagne said it, etc. So those are the good guys. So then, you know, you've got Ezra Klein, which we could talk about a little bit later. But I think he's. He's been an interesting guy. I think he's overall positive. He did question Biden a couple of times. He's taken a little bit of credit here. And at the end, that's. Anyway, he's a mixed bag, but overall, I like him. And we can get into whether that you guys agree, disagree, et cetera. Then there's the Pod Save America guys who are. Look, on a personal level, I've met him a couple times. Don't mind him. One of them, Tommy, did the Young Turks one day, liked him, no problem. Et cetera. Do good guys, in my estimation, in our brief interactions. But come on, guys, you're the establishment. And you said that Biden was fine, and then you said Kamala Harris was great, and they weren't. They sucked. And so now all of a sudden, like, there's news reports about Pod Save America, realizes Biden might not have been the right candidate. Oh, did they? Oh, I see. Oh, he might have stayed in the race too long. But guys. But that's what we were saying, and I don't mean it. And then you have mainstream media, which is way worse than all the people that I just mentioned. You know, the Whoopi Goldbergs, the Joe Scarboroughs, just the serial liars who lie and do marketing and propaganda for the Democratic Party. So that's the media. If you want, I'll get into the politics.

[Phil Labonte]

Is it your sense that the positive American guys don't qualify as mainstream? I mean, they were.

[Cenk Uygur]

They were.

[Phil Labonte]

If I understand correctly, they did work with. With the Obama administration or with Barack Obama. And so they. I feel like they're. They're as, you know, as mainstream Democrat as you can kind of get.

[Cenk Uygur]

Okay. Keeping it real. So this positive America has this funny role in that they have a mainstream mentality, unquestionably. But they're a podcast. So, like, when the mainstream politicians want to go crazy, they go on podcast America. They're like, well, I was in a podcast. Yeah, that was online. It wasn't even stand out. It was so crazy.

[Phil Labonte]

Okay.

[Cenk Uygur]

I was talking to a microphone.

[Libby Emmons]

You saw Jen O'Malley Dillon being like, wait, I can curse on here. And she was. She was so happy about it. And I was like, you don't get to do that all the time, do you?

[Cenk Uygur]

Right.

[Phil Labonte]

It's covered, essentially then.

[Cenk Uygur]

Right. Well, look, they. They I'm sure they genuinely mean what they say. Right. So to be fair to them, and. And they're. Look, I agree with them on. On a lot of policies.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, I mean, do they. Hold on. You said they mean what they say, but they were saying that Joe Biden was great, and then they also said that, you know, until Kamala Harris came in. Do you think they meant that? Or were they, you know, were they lying then? So which. Which one.

[Cenk Uygur]

Which one?

[Phil Labonte]

Do you.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, so I do genuinely wonder about that. Right. So did they really get themselves to believe that Joe Biden was young and dynamic and the best possible candidate for the Democratic Party? Which I always said was the biggest insult you could give to the Democratic Party to say that a guy whose brain was falling out of his ear is the best candidate we have in the whole country. Really? Out of like 150, 170 million people, you thought he was the best possible candidate? So, no, you can't possibly believe that. So that's gotta be a lie. Right? But I bet you that all those guys genuinely thought, no, he's the best. We gotta keep going. You know, you always. And you know what? And the excuse that they have and, like, they get themselves to believe is, wait, if we show any dissension, it helps Trump.

[Phil Labonte]

Doesn't this kind of speak to the NPC meme, though? Like, if these people are saying, you know, Joe Biden is this blah, blah, blah, and then as soon as Kamala Harris says, you know, or Kamala Harris is the nominee, they just switch right out. It really does kind of just. It is emblematic of that whole meme where it's like just the new download changes, their opinion doesn't. Right. And if that's the case, can you trust them?

[Libby Emmons]

The thing with Democrats, though, is their best thing is unity. Right? Their best thing is providing a solid front. They're like parents. When the kid sneaks out and one of them said it was okay or something. You know what I mean? Like, they team up and they get together, and so they're hard to crack because of that.

[Phil Labonte]

The old stereotype is Republicans fall in line and Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line. Is that no longer the case?

[Cenk Uygur]

No, totally flipped now. So that was the case. Now, if you're a Democrat and you don't fall in line, there's going to be hell to pay.

[Phil Labonte]

Okay, so is that, though?

[Libby Emmons]

I mean, that.

[Cenk Uygur]

So that's been going on for some time, but, you know, so that saying is like the Tip O'Neill saying from the 1970s. All politics is local when now no politics is local. It's all national.

[Libby Emmons]

All national. And people make their.

[Cenk Uygur]

So they still keep saying that stuff, but in reality, the Republicans fell in love with Trump, and the Democrats are always told, fall in line. Fall in line. Right? And so, like, just real quick to address what you guys are saying. So in the Democratic Party, you know, unity is put out as, like, the greatest value of all time, when in reality, unity has destroyed the party because it's a forced unity. It's not a real unity. They say, we annoyed Biden, we annoying Hillary Clinton. Now everybody unified. What that means is our donors picked Hillary Clinton. Our donors picked Joe Biden, so shut up, okay? All you rascally annoying populists and stuff like that with your stupid Bernie Sanders. No donor even approves of Bernie Sanders, okay? We demand unity, okay? And so that's a fake, fake thing to try to get. Not unity, but compliance and obedience.

[Tim Pool]

There's a good example of this. Molly Jong Fast was on, I think it was at msnbc.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

I think she was asked, breaking news. Joe has pardoned Hunter. What? Hey, this just happened. What do you have to say? And her response was, I have no take on that. I'll have to. Have to think about it. And certainly I'm not requiring every single person ever to know everything. But this is an example of. I can't possibly answer with the Democratic Party line live on tv. You'll have to give me a few minutes to consult.

[Libby Emmons]

I have to go figure it out. I mean, the thing is, to be.

[Cenk Uygur]

Fair to her, I don't know what exactly happened. Maybe she really genuinely didn't know.

[Tim Pool]

She's like, all right, I'll give her that.

[Cenk Uygur]

Right?

[Tim Pool]

But I think this is an example. I think it's probabilistically an example of. I gotta be honest, if you took the average conservative and put them on TV and ask them a question, they're gonna say something. They're gonna have some kind of opinion on it or whatever. And I think this. This goes to the bigger picture of. And I'll say all these liberal personalities have been complaining about. Even David Pakman's complaining about it. Conservatives are knocking on the door to come on your show, and liberals are like, let me talk with our PR people and see if we can make something happen. And they don't do it.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, no. Can I just address that real quick? It's way worse than that. So why does positive America exist in a sense, right? So that they could do as we talked about. They could Feel cool for going online or on a podcast, et cetera. But would those people who ran Biden's campaign ever come on the Young Turks? Zero percent chance. None. None, none, None. Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, None. Zero, zero. Why? Because we asked real questions. So if you ask real questions, oh my God. They don't want, like, that's why they.

[Libby Emmons]

Didn'T want to do Rogue.

[Cenk Uygur]

Oh, they don't. I mean, but.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, could you imagine?

[Cenk Uygur]

But Joe is kind of soft compared to us, right? Like, even if you're a left winger or you're a Democrat, you're going to get a much tougher interview out of the Young Turks than you are out of Joe Rogan. And that's why she, she was such a knucklehead for not doing the Rogan interview. Well, you know what Joe's going to do? He's an amiable guy, right? He's not looking to ambush you or whatever. He's going to go, oh, yeah, that's interesting. Oh, where'd you grow up? Oh, that's. Oh, so you were at McDonald's, right? He's going to have that. But they can't even handle that. So. So that's why the General Mally Dillons and stuff. She's not going to come up. We're going to ask follow up questions and be like, hey, why did you turn down hundreds of millions of dollars in earned media and free media? I mean, you keep raising money. You kept asking people for me money, give me money. Oh, we raised all our money. We were calling. And then. But wait, that 50 million views that, that Trump got on Rogan is worth an enormous amount of money. Then you wouldn't have to keep asking little grandmas for money if you just do earned media, right?

[Libby Emmons]

Why didn't you do it?

[Cenk Uygur]

Why didn't you do it? Right? And I could ask 10, 20 super tough questions like that and they'll never, ever go on a show that asks them those questions because they don't have answers to those questions. Their answer is. What do you mean fall in line? Unity. Unity. Hey, listen, I did your. Well, I didn't do your unity. Can I curse you? I already forgot.

[Tim Pool]

Well, we try not to, okay?

[Cenk Uygur]

Nobody cried, so I already did your bs. Like, like. Or I refuse to do your bs. Right? But this unity stuff is gone, man. We. You wanted us to unify and not. And Jen O'Malley, Dylan, remember before she ran Comma's campaign, she ran Joe's campaign. She, like, if you want to talk about liars, the pod Save America, guys. I think that they probably got deluded in their own minds into thinking, oh, Joe Biden's 34 or 44. I can't tell. Right. Okay. But General Mally, Dylan knows exactly how senile Joe Biden was. She had conversation after conversation. Everyone on that campaign knew that he has massive mental decline. Massive.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah.

[Cenk Uygur]

Oh, my uncle was eaten by cannibals. Oh, why, hello there, Bob. He's shaking hands with an invisible guy.

[Tim Pool]

Called that debunked when he was shaking hands and invisible, invisible guy.

[Cenk Uygur]

Everything's always debunked. Right.

[Libby Emmons]

He was out there talking to trees in the Amazon. The thing about Jon Stewart and Bill Maher is that these Democrats are catching up to where a lot of Democrats were several years ago. You know, a lot of Democrats got pushed out of the party because they didn't follow the party line. The Democrats have already abandoned free speech. Like, yeah, like us. But the Democrats abandoned free speech. They have abandoned their anti war stance. And if Democrats are going to get any credibility back, they have to return to their roots and actually have values. It's been a shifting sands of like whatever seems fashionably progressive since Obama.

[Tim Pool]

I don't know how this version of the Democratic Party recovers the narrative they keep pushing about where's the Democrat version of Joe Rogan. Or my favorite was when Wired said there's no, there's no Democrat Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder, or so help us, a Tim Pool. And I'm like, Joe Rogan was a Bernie bro and I donated the maximum to two different Democrats in the 2020 cycle. But the Democrats, in my view, totally nuts. Pushing things that I thought were insane.

[Libby Emmons]

Conservative media when I was still a registered Democrat, you know, because that's where I could, that's where I could have free speech. That's where I could openly discuss things.

[Tim Pool]

If you look, it wasn't. I'll give you one quick example before Jen, you can jump in. I think an example because I think many of the prominent voices in the liberal media space are just outright lying. It's dominated by the corporate press, of course. And my favorite example to give the man his wonderful shout out that he's. That he's always begged for Sam Cedar when he comes on this show, we invite him here, asks me, I shouldn't say he asked me, but we were discussing abortion and I told him I was pro choice. He throws a hypothetical at me, rants about how I want women to undergo rape trials or something to prove that they were raped, and then literally says in the show that's the clip I was trying to get. And I'm like, okay, if that is the. Not the, but maybe a driving force in the alternative media space. And then the corporate press is just lying about every single thing that's going on. Joe Biden is fizz a fiddle and strong as a young man. Then me, I'm just out. I'm out. So how are the Democrats supposed to recover any kind of real, authentic media if these are the narratives, narrative games they've been playing, or at least many of them have been.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, but. So whenever you talk about Democrats to the left, you have to distinguish between the different camps. Right? So who. What's the biggest left wing show? We are Young turks. Right. What's the biggest left wing Network? We are? TYT is 27 million subscribers. Right. 30 billion lifetime views. So when they're like, oh, I wish we had a Joe Rogan of the left, hey, idiots, we have more subscribers, more views, et cetera. And. But to them, no, you don't count because you're honest. We didn't mean we want left wing media. We meant we want left wing media to do our propaganda. But you won't do our propaganda. Well, that's why we're popular, because we don't do your propaganda. Right.

[Phil Labonte]

That's why.

[Cenk Uygur]

So. And they're like, no, no, but we just want to pay for someone to be super popular and just tell us that Joe Biden is young and Kamala Harris doesn't have talking points and the donors are not in charge, etc. Well, you're never going to get that.

[Phil Labonte]

Do they not understand that?

[Cenk Uygur]

No, they don't understand at all because they're used. And look, guys, this is, again, this is not left. Right. This is populist versus establishment. So establishment Republicans and establishment Democrats, their whole lives have been relying on establishment media to cover for them. Oh, hey, what are we doing? We're robbing the middle class to pay the rich. Okay, great. Hey, Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden did a beautiful bipartisan deal. Oh, that's so great. They're both so moderate. They're so moderate the way they robbed all of you guys and gave it to the. To their rich donors. And so it's like a giant marketing operation. If you're on cable news, you're not in news, you're in marketing. You just don't realize it.

[Tim Pool]

Let me, let me pull up this Twitter throw. We got this from Cenk Ugar himself. You tweeted. I've been trying to figure out why I'm More optimistic now than I was before the election, even though I was so against the guy who won. I know now MAGA is not my mortal enemy, and neither is the extreme left. My mortal enemy is the establishment, and they have been defeated. It's not just that the establishment candidate lost. It's that their media is mortally wounded. The source of their strength was not insipid politicians like Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden. The source of their strength was their propaganda machine, the mainstream media. Now, online media, is strong enough that their oppressive monopoly on the American mind has been broken. Now we're in the jungle. They hate that. I love it. This uncontrolled marketplace of ideas is where I'm home. I'd rather be in the populist woods than an establishment prison. So you got a ton of praise from a lot of conservatives saying that. Well, you know, Gunther Eagleman, they haven't been defeated. He calls you naive. Matt Gaetz said, I've long said there are coalitions to be made between the populist left and the populist right. My first critique would be, it feels a little thick. It feels, you know, the election just happened. And you're a guy who is very critical of Donald Trump in very, very heavy ways.

[Cenk Uygur]

I still am.

[Tim Pool]

So. So how is. Do you think Donald Trump engaged in an insurrection on January, 6?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

And you think that that's not a mortal enemy of you? You think the establishment is worse?

[Cenk Uygur]

No. So that's where it gets complicated. So Donald Trump, I was dead set against him. Number one, I don't agree with most of his policies, but number two, after he did a fake elector plot to overthrow the government, and he did, he said, to terminate the Constitution, I'm out forever. I'm never, ever, ever going to vote for that guy. Okay? I don't care if he was a Democrat or a Republican. You write, I want to terminate the Constitution, and I'm done with you. Okay? So I believe that before the election. I believe it after the election. I haven't changed a single policy position. I haven't changed a single opinion. Okay? So. But what that comes from, Tim, is that tweet is a genuine feeling that I had. And it's interesting because a lot of our viewers agreed with me. Okay? And so the feeling is, wait, that's weird. I really didn't want Trump to win. Not like, yay, I wanted Trump to win the day after he. No, no, I didn't want him to win. Right. But. So why do I feel the strange feeling of optimism? Right. And I'm not optimistic about most of his picks. I'm not optimistic about most of his policies, et cetera. Certainly not the people who he surrounds himself with. But I and what I realized and that's why I say it in the middle of the tweet. I know now I figured it out. And what it is is we especially on the left you're shoplines.com cyber Monday sales event.

[Libby Emmons]

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[Cenk Uygur]

An establishment prison. Okay, so the minute you step out the guardrail away from the guardrails. Oh, well, I'm intruder alert. Intruder alert. Right. And so. Oh, how dare you say that. It's the donors, you conspiracy theorist. How dare you say the politicians aren't honest. How dare you say that about Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden. Well now the how dare you sound hollow. They sound like. No, no, no, no, no. You guys are the morons who lost many, many times. So you don't get to say how dare you anymore. Right. So that that feeling of liberation within the left within the Democratic party is what's critical. And the fact that we're no longer in a strictly left right spectrum, that we're in a populist establishment spectrum layered on those are all incredibly hopeful things. And most importantly, it's that online media for the first time beat mainstream media. And so if that's true in a general election, I believe it could also be true in a Democratic primary. Okay. Because our number one opponent in Democratic primaries is mainstream media. So Bernie wins in the first three states in 2020 and what happens. It wasn't just that the politicians coalesced. It said all of cable news coalesced and they all came in Bernie's a Nazi. Bernie's going to execute.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I don't think any of them called him a Nazi.

[Libby Emmons]

No, they literally did Bernie.

[Cenk Uygur]

Which mainstream media first of all dumb.

[Phil Labonte]

Enough to do that?

[Elad Eliyahu]

No, I don't.

[Cenk Uygur]

Wait. Said his supporters were brown shirts, which are Nazis.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Okay, but not saying Bernie Sanders on these networks.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, no, no, I don't have the quote in front of me here. I don't have a computer whatever. But someone insinuated that he was on that side. Right. And so they had happened three different times.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Do you think the election was stolen from Bernie?

[Cenk Uygur]

Stolen is a word that's loaded. Right? So agreed. In 2016, the DNC funneled money from donors to into the state parties and then the Hillary Clinton's campaign. Okay, so that is illegal. They should not have done it. I'm sorry, I don't remember if it was illegal or outside the rules of the Democratic Party, but it was definitely outside the rules.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I think a lot of people cite in 2020 that because a lot of the different mainstream candidates decided to drop out at the same time as likely for a cabinet.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, that's not Joe Biden.

[Elad Eliyahu]

You don't think that was ok. No, that's just politics.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Elad Eliyahu]

And to follow up, it kind of sounds like through this tweet you're kind of talking about. I think you're talking outside of both sides of your mouth when you're saying Mag is not my mortal enemy. My mortal enemy is the establishment. Can you be a little bit more explicit with what you're talking about policy wise? Because I feel like a lot of the things you are going to say is maga. So please go.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, yeah.

[Libby Emmons]

Chris Matthews and Jonathan Last, they both called. They both referred to Bernie Sanders as his supporters as brown shoes, but they.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Didn'T call him a not.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah, Chris Matthews.

[Elad Eliyahu]

No, these are very different things.

[Tim Pool]

But fair point.

[Libby Emmons]

He stepped down.

[Elad Eliyahu]

They called his supporters brown shirts. I wouldn't be surprised if they've acted like it when Antifa came out and ride it very often.

[Tim Pool]

I got it, but I got to do. I got to do. I got to do one thing real quick because you said that Trump called for the termination of the Constitution. I'm going to read the quote Trump posted. Do you. Do you throw the presidential election results of 2020 out and declare the rightful winner or do you have a new election? A massive fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great founders did not want and would not condone false and fraudulent elections. I would draw the distinction. And obviously I see you're more as a progressive. You're going to, you're going to view it from a left lens, which is Trump is saying this allows us to terminate the rules. My interpretation is he's saying in general, a fraud of this magnitude would allow generally for anybody.

[Cenk Uygur]

But Debbie is talking about that election. And number two, no, there is no provision in the Constitution says if some, you know, rando or a Candidate or president decides that he didn't like the outcome of election, you could terminate the whole thing, all rules, regulations and articles. But all. All terminate.

[Tim Pool]

And the way the right views it is that he's saying the fraud they have committed is allowing them to terminate all the rules in the Constitution.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, Tim, you're making crazy excuse. That's not what that.

[Tim Pool]

I'm telling you, that's that at all.

[Cenk Uygur]

Not 1%.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, I'm not.

[Cenk Uygur]

I'm not saying it allows for the termination of all rules, regulations and articles in the Constitution. So what part of that is the left saying? And he's saying.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no, no. My point is, the left perspective is Trump is saying this would empower him to terminate the rules. That's the argument they've made.

[Cenk Uygur]

He's at least saying that I want to terminate the rules.

[Tim Pool]

But that's the left perspective. The right perspective is he's saying the actions that have been taken allow in general for these people to basically violate the rules of the Constitution.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, that doesn't make any sense. That's not what he. That's not even close to what he said.

[Tim Pool]

Well, I understand that's your perspective. I'm telling you what conservatives are saying.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, I don't even think conservatives are used. Have you seen that? Anyway, I mean, that's a fun interpretation that you had. I could just reverse everything that by. Well, Biden said he was young and dynamic, but he meant he was old and senile.

[Tim Pool]

It would be like saying precedent from the Supreme Court would allow us to do X, Y or Z. Not saying that you intend to do it or want to do it, but the actions taken by the Supreme Court are allowing the states to do something. Right. So when the left says the overturning of Roe v. Wade is going to allow for women to be put in, you know, red dresses and caps, they're not advocating for the Handmaid's Tale. They're saying a court precedent would allow for something like this to happen. That's the perspective from conservatives. And that's why when you say, wait.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, no, I don't get it at all, Tim. How in the world is Trump saying we. A massive fraud like this means that you terminate all rules and regulations of the Constitution and articles of the Constitution. How is the. That interpreter does. He thinks the left is saying it.

[Tim Pool]

So in the instance of the Supreme Court issuing a ruling on Roe v. Wade, if a Democrat said this allows for women to be forced to give birth, that's not a Democrat saying they want to force Women to give birth. Is it?

[Cenk Uygur]

They're saying, yeah, but Trump isn't saying that. Trump is saying that because of the fraud against him, we should consider or do terminate all rules, regulations and articles of the Constitution. It's not at all unclear.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not telling you that. That's not your interpretation. You're not entitled to it. I'm saying conservatives view it from another lens.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, I think that's wishful thinking because they want to make excuses for it.

[Tim Pool]

By all means, you can think that that's why almost every single Trump supporter will say he did not say to terminate the Constitution.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, that's just nonsense. You're just looking at it and go, okay, I'm going to read it in backwards. So if Bernie said that, I'd be done with him in a second. In one second flat. Any politician I support says, oh, maybe we should. Oh, there was something. Oh, you justice against me. Let's terminate the Constitution. No, get the hell out of here. That's done with you. He. All right, whatever.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, I don't know.

[Cenk Uygur]

Look, I don't. Look, we can argue about the English language, maybe German. He doesn't mean that. But in English, he said terminate the Constitution. He didn't say the Democrats think to terminate the Constitution. He said the exact opposite. And Tim, it's not 1% unclear. So conservatives can take that and go, okay, I wish to interpret it as him talking about the left, even though he says it's about him and the fraud against him. You can wish to a sentence to mean anything you want, but that's what it means. And guys, what are we pretending that he didn't try to steal the election? I know the right.

[Tim Pool]

I don't think he did.

[Cenk Uygur]

Okay. Yeah. All right, so, I mean, we could go back in that old debate, but it doesn't really matter because he won this time around. Right. So we're done with it now. If he, if he goes back and says, oh, I'm not leaving, then we're not done with it. And that's part of what I'm worried about. So that's why 84 by that point.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Something like that.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. So I'm less worried now because the popular vote was on his side. So now the right.

[Elad Eliyahu]

You're not seriously scared of him staying in office for another term? Because I've heard that before. Like, I don't know if.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, but here's the thing, brother. When somebody says, I'm going to terminate the Constitution, when someone says, I don't have real electors, I have Faith, when.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Somebody says, I'm not going to pardon my son and then pardons my son, we're dealing with politics, and all of.

[Cenk Uygur]

These guys are full of nonsense, nonsense, nonsense.

[Elad Eliyahu]

So lies from Republican matter, but not lies from Democrats?

[Cenk Uygur]

No, not at all. Not at all. Because both Biden and Trump have done horrific pardons, egregious, unacceptable pardons. But Trump doing a pardon of Charles Kushner, which is very similar to Hunter Biden's pardon, is terrible. But I wouldn't say, oh, you should never vote for that guy. You can't vote for that guy. That means terminate the Constitution. It doesn't mean any of that. Just means it's a crappy pardon. Okay, so there's a giant difference between, hey, I disagree with you, or you did something really wrong, and I'd like to end the country by ending our Constitution and our democracy. So to Tim's point, whether you guys agree with me or not, whether the right wing agrees with me or not, that was my concern. Okay, so am I less concerned about it now? Yes. Not because they've changed it all, but because Trump won the popular vote. So there was a lot of talk from the right wing of, oh, we're not a democracy, we're a Republican. Screw democracy. We don't want democracy. Pete Hegseth writing in his book about, we should, you know, gerrymander so badly that the Democrats never win again.

[Elad Eliyahu]

But there's a bunch of Democrat books talking about packing the Supreme Court and now we're going to.

[Cenk Uygur]

And I hate it.

[Tim Pool]

And so I'm not a fan of democracy. I don't want democracy.

[Cenk Uygur]

See, there you go. So that's exactly what I'm worried about. But that's why I'm not right when.

[Elad Eliyahu]

About our democratic republic. We're not a direct democracy. Like, do you mean our type of democracy as a republic or just in general?

[Tim Pool]

Liberal democracy is a general colloquial term we use for countries like the United States and our system of governance. And that's what I'm for. Democracy in this idea that majority rules doesn't make sense. There's. So as the famous saying goes, democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding on what's for lunch. A republic is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. There has to be some chance for minority representation. And that's what we have in a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives. So I like this. And so when I say democracy, if someone doesn't understand the blanket term of what democracy is, they assume you're saying, I want Fascism or something, which is not the case. I want a system of guaranteed civil rights, a degree of free market, but I believe there should be government regulation to a certain degree. And I like how we have a system that balances the interests of the minority and the majority in different ways. It's not perfect, it's near impossible to do, but I think we have a great system here.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I'm sorry, just to get this straight, you're against D.C. statehood, against Puerto Rican statehood, against adding. So against adding states?

[Cenk Uygur]

No. Where I.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Because that would be a power play from the Democrats.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, it depends. So like D.C. and Puerto Rico happen to be more progressive Democratic leaning now, but if they were Republican leaning, we could still have a conversation.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Yeah, but you can see how Republicans think it's like an obvious partisan play where they're just trying to get four more.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, but the Electoral College is obviously partisan horse crap at this point. It should be, you know, fixed.

[Elad Eliyahu]

And that's why it's hard to take your arguments about democracy seriously when you're.

[Cenk Uygur]

Why?

[Elad Eliyahu]

Because you, you don't care about democracy. You're willing to bring in.

[Cenk Uygur]

Outrageous.

[Elad Eliyahu]

You're willing, you're willing to completely upset our electoral system and then stuff it with essentially four Democratic senators.

[Cenk Uygur]

No nonsense. Why are we. Look, an original system of the Constitution is deeply flawed. So a tiny state like Wyoming gets two senators, a gigantic state. Let me just finish the point.

[Tim Pool]

Finish the point.

[Cenk Uygur]

But in order to fix that, in order to fix that or fix the Electoral College or anything else, you have to go through the process. I believe in the Constitution. So you want to call it a republic, you want to call it a democracy. I'm good with all of that. As long as we don't end the Constitution, we don't end our democracy, we don't end our civil rights protected by the Bill of Rights, protected by the Constitution, et cetera. Then we can have arguments about, hey, do we admit Alaska and Hawaii? Well, Alaska's Republican, Hawaii's Democrat. Let's have that conversation. Do admit DC or Puerto Rico, etc. That's not anti democratic. That's just a normal political conversation.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I agree.

[Phil Labonte]

So just the way that you frame the argument about state senators and stuff like that implies that the number of people in the state matters. It doesn't matter. It absolutely doesn't.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Because that's not how the Constitution.

[Phil Labonte]

It doesn't matter because it's not about democracy. With that, the senators are supposed to represent the interest of the states, not of the people. The House represent the people. This is Something that you absolutely know. And so. And so the fact that you.

[Cenk Uygur]

I don't believe it. I think it's a terrible system. That's.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, then you're.

[Cenk Uygur]

I think the Senate is a terrible system.

[Phil Labonte]

Then.

[Cenk Uygur]

That's.

[Phil Labonte]

I think that's completely absurd. It doesn't matter.

[Cenk Uygur]

I'm not gonna win on that.

[Phil Labonte]

Okay, but look, I'll tell you, the fact of the matter is your viewers don't know. They don't understand that the states are supposed to be represented by the. By the senators. And when you. No, they don' not.

[Cenk Uygur]

Elementary civics. We all know it. We just don't agree. And I guarantee you, if it was flipped, you'd go nuts. If we had tiny little Wyoming that had the same amount of votes as Texas.

[Phil Labonte]

No, because.

[Tim Pool]

All right, there's. There's Rhode Island.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. And I'm with you. But if there was more blue states that were tiny, Ohio, giant red states, the reverse of what we have now, I guarantee you every one of you would be. This is outrageous. Trying to do one man, one vote. How come it's not one man, one vote?

[Phil Labonte]

Just trying to change the subject and deflect. The point that I'm making is when you portray it as if it's not Democratic. Because it's not. Because it's not popular vote. That's what the House is for. You're. You're misrepresenting what's going on. And the. Your viewers.

[Cenk Uygur]

I'm not.

[Phil Labonte]

That you say your viewers know. They do not know.

[Tim Pool]

All right, you made the point. I would. I would say this. Here's. Here's the problem is the 17th amendment. Because Cenk is not necessary. If Cenk's view is that the senators are representing the people, that's not wrong. Since the 17th, it used to be that your state legislatures would appoint people to represent the state's interests, and then we changed it in the early 1900s. I think that's a mistake. I think states should representation. I'll tell you exactly why. Cenk, do you know about. So I covered the drought in California. This is 10 years ago. We had drought in California. I went to Tulare County. 300,000 poor people, a lot of migrant workers and farmers live there. I went to these farms, and they were drilling thousands, tens of thousands of feet down into the earth for groundwater so they could water their crops because the drought had been very severe. I went to the home of a poor migrant family that they harvested crops. They had no water. They turned their water on. Nothing came out. The reason Was their wells at their houses only go down 30ft, but the farmers were drilling down 5 to 10,000 or more feet. So the groundwater had been sucked all up for the farms. So the first thing we thought was, hey, that's. They're stealing the water from the poor workers for their business and their crops. Well, the argument was, yeah, but we have to grow food, otherwise we don't eat. And I said, okay, well, we got to figure something out, right? So I go to the farms, and I said, why are you doing this? And they said, we. We. We provide a third of the economy of the state. We're. We're producing food. I mean, there's nothing here, and there's no workers here unless we can grow the crops. I look over and there's a canal full of water. I said, why don't you just take the actual water that you have that comes from the mountains? And they said, we are a county. This is what I heard from, like, seven different farmers. We're a county of 300,000 people. We voted to keep our water, and the cities like San Diego and Carlsbad with golf courses outvoted us. So we went to Carlsbad and we saw golf courses getting watered. They actually, the people who lived there came out and said, we refuse to have brown lawns. We should have the right to water our lawns. Across the street from a golf course with watered green grass was poor migrant workers with no water. And it all came down to. In a system of direct democracy within the state, it was put to a vote, and the cities with majorities said, we want the water for the cities, not for the people, where the water came from. I said, that's really interesting. So if you try to figure out a way to balance this, looking at a national level, what happens if you go to a state like Montana that's about to be inducted and given statehood? And we say, we're gonna do everything. Popular vote, Montana goes, you're gonna come in here and you're gonna vote to take out all of our water from us. In fact, it happened. Arizona tried suing to file a lawsuit against, I think it was Illinois to take Great Lakes water. And the only reason it got stopped is because Ontario is a foreign country and it's part of the Great Lakes coalition. So that would interfere with Canada, an international obligation. So Arizona was not able to start shipping water from the Great Lakes, which would have depleted. So what I end up seeing is, you tell the states, here's what we're going to do. There'll be two forms of representation. You're not guaranteed to win. The people may actually vote to take the water and the minerals from your state, but we'll create two systems. One, you're a small state, you'll get one at large representative, but you'll have two senators. Every state gets two senators, and the Senate will be your competing voice. So there'll be some minority representation. Lest we see what happens inside of California where 2 million people living in an urban center put it up to a vote. We 2 million outweigh the 300,000. We take all their water. And they did. And those people didn't have any water. So I don't think there's a perfect solution for it, but I think something there works.

[Cenk Uygur]

So, Tim, I can show you thousands of examples where people get outvoted and it feels like an injustice and it's. And it feels. I get outvoted all the time. Right. And so it is what it is, and that's not a reason to take down democracy. So what I'm worried about is this dangerous talk of, well, some people don't like what the government concludes included. So maybe we shouldn't do majority rule. Maybe we should just let. And if I reverse it and I go, okay, maybe we shouldn't do majority rule. You know what? Maybe the Democrats just should rule forever because they're kinder, they're nicer, Right?

[Tim Pool]

Let me just ask you.

[Cenk Uygur]

Of course we're not going to agree to that. Right? I hope you're not going to agree to that. Let me just say, why would I want the Republicans. And every single time people go back to, yeah, but the Republicans should be.

[Tim Pool]

Let me, Let me ask you one clarifying question. In your view for democracy, then, would it be acceptable for a major city to vote to take the water away from poor workers?

[Cenk Uygur]

So it depends on the context, Tim. So like just the context? No. For example, the way that California was built in the first place is they brought the water from Northern California to Southern California. Now, in that time, there was enormous corruption. It was a long time ago. And the guy who owned the LA Times, the guy who did the corruption, got profited off of it. But it brought water down to Los Angeles and created one of the greatest cities in the world. So did that water at some point, was it somewhere else in California? It was. Did the people that had all of the water wanted to go down to la? Probably not. Did they get out? In that case, they were outmaneuvered. But if they were outvoted, I get it. I get why? At the same time, that doesn't mean you leave them high and dry. It doesn't mean that you say, I don't care about you because I just took your water. Who cares? No, you have to compensate them. You have to do all these things. You have to work together. And you're right at your core of saying democracy. But you need civil rights protection. Civil rights doesn't mean for, you know, racial minorities. It means for all of us, for people who are left wing, right wing, et cetera. Because if you have a left wing government or a democratic government, and all of a sudden they go, you know what? We decided democracy is no good. We're just canceling the elections. We're terminating the Constitution. We thought there was massive fraud or whatever. We thought, right? And so now you guys are a permanent minority. But don't worry, don't worry, you'll be fine. No, no, that's not acceptable. It's not. We stick with this system. But again, I'm not as worried about it today because Trump won the popular vote. I was very worried about it when the Republicans kept losing the popular vote and they started talking against democracy. And so that was awfully convenient as you guys lose national vote after national vote, after national vote, you go, maybe we don't do democracy. No, no, no, no. Don't mess around with that now. He won the popular vote. Great. Then he won it, no problem.

[Tim Pool]

You know, here's the crazy thing, and I do want to jump to this next segment, but no, no. Conservative calls me conservative. The far left calls me a conservative. My politics align with, like, I supported Andrew Yang, Tulsi Gabbard, and I supported Bernie Sanders in 2016. In 2020, I thought he was too old, but I generally liked him to a certain degree. And I met a lot of people in 2015 and 16 who were Bernie supporters, who, when he got knocked out, flipped for Trump because of border policy and workers rights policy. So it's crazy now that at this point, and that's what I was saying earlier about how the Democrat recovers, if I'm the person who, in 2020 was saying, Please save the Democratic Party because I'm not a Republican, I don't agree with them on a lot of things. But now here I am. Here's Joe Rogan, here's RFK Jr. Here's Tulsi Gabbard, here's Colin Wright, here's Elon Musk. All of these people who were Democrats, who were either a little bit progressive or just moderately liberal, are now aligned with The Republican Party.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. So a couple of interesting things in there. First of all, that's a wide range of people, and they all have different motives and different thoughts, et cetera. So RFK Jr was definitely a Democrat, and we would have stayed a Democrat if the Democratic Party didn't push him out. Right. Tulsi, I think, was always going to go right wing, so why. Yeah, that's a long story. She's. Yeah. I don't want to get back into Tulsi, but we called her out as going to go right wing a year before she did it, and we got a lot of pushback from the left, and they're like, oh, you're crazy. She's not going to do that. But we backed it up with. Here's why we think that. Right. She went to go talk to Steve Bannon and Trump after they won in 2016. She's been trying to get it. First she tried to get in with the establishment Democrats. That didn't work. Then she went to Progressives and tried to get in. And there. That was working a little bit. But then she ran against Bernie, et cetera. And we're like, okay, there's nothing wrong with running against Bernie, but all of us. She loves the drone strikes, even though she claims she's anti war. She showed support for torture back in the day when it's like Abu Ghraib.

[Libby Emmons]

And all of that.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. And so. Oh, well, I don't like torture, but it might be necessary. No, no torture. The minute you say it might be necessary, that means you're pro torture.

[Tim Pool]

Let's not go too much in a talk.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, I got you my point. And that's why I didn't want to get too deep in the details in your case, Tim. Look, you were more on the left. You know that. Right. And so you have. And your positions that are more prominent, that people hear more about, are more right wing. Like, okay, so some of the culture war issues that, you know that I don't want either side playing, culture wars, et cetera, and some of the things that we've done on the show, but I don't remember every single thing, but like, you know, on guns and Kyle Rittenhouse and racial issues, et cetera. Right. But what.

[Tim Pool]

But I agree with Annika Sparing on Kyle Russell House.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, well, no, did not. I don't know if you guys exactly agree or not, but I don't agree with Anna on that. So. And we've had that debate. What's that?

[Phil Labonte]

Why?

[Cenk Uygur]

All right, now we're going to get into Kyle.

[Tim Pool]

I don't want to. I don't want to.

[Cenk Uygur]

Okay, so.

[Tim Pool]

But, Tim, that's not a political position. That's. That's a fact. Question of what happened.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, all right, look, I understand what you're saying, Tim, but like, almost every time you're in the news is for a right wing position. But I'm not.

[Tim Pool]

This is.

[Cenk Uygur]

But listen, let me finish the thought. But I hear you and you just said, for example, you're pro choice. And what I'm getting to is it's the left. Right thing is not really working anymore. Right. Because your positions. Yes. Are sometimes. Although in a lot of instances, left, middle, right, et cetera. Now. And you know our position on crime. I don't know if it's left or right anymore. Right. What is. What is? Like, I'm against crime, but I want police reform. Is that. But I think that's left. But some portions of the left say, no, that's not left. No, you have to be like, pretend crime doesn't exist. I'm like, wait, how does that. A left wing position. That's not really a left wing position. So my point is, you're right. It's become jumbled and it's. That's why I talk about real.

[Tim Pool]

It's liars. That's. That's everything. So I'll give you an example. My Wikipedia says that I denied Covid, got Covid, and then sought Ivermectin. None of which is true. Never denied Covid, never sought Ivermectin. I got monoclonal antibodies, but. But Gizmodo fabricated the whole thing.

[Libby Emmons]

They called me about that.

[Tim Pool]

They called you about me getting Ivermectin?

[Libby Emmons]

No, they called me about getting Covid from Tim Pool.

[Tim Pool]

Well, so anyway, my point is, I'll give a really good example when the Burisma scandal happens. And Matt Taibbi, he was a liberal guy, he wrote for the Rolling Stone, writes this long substack, I think was substack about Victor Shokin. The prosecutor in Ukraine had a dozen 12 to 14 open investigations into the CEO of Burisma, Mykolos Lachevsky. And then I come out and make a video and go, whoa, Matt Taibbi has got these documents. Victor Shokin signed a sworn affidavit that he was fired because of Joe Biden coming in and making these threats. That's not a right wing position.

[Cenk Uygur]

So I don't think that is either.

[Tim Pool]

But that's all they ever say about me. If I come out and say anything, policy Wise, like, I'll say, oh, I'm for a form of universal basic healthcare where I think if you got like a broken bone or the flu, you should be able to be treated. I think there should be some kind of welfare system that covers this. Nope. Tim Poole's right wing. I, we had Matt Bender on the show and I'm, I'm pro choice and being like, I think there's a certain time period, like women, you know, I'm not a fan of abortion. He called me pro life. And so when, whenever I'm in the news for something right wing, it's probably because Sam Cedar fabricated a clip and then people played it up.

[Cenk Uygur]

So. I hear you, Tim. I've been lied about so many times that I greatly empathize with that. So. And, but overall, we're agreeing on the, on the major point, which is things don't fit left and right as much as they used to back when in the day. And here's another reason for the optimism that I have. Back in the day when I talked to a Republican, I was never going to get agreement on anything and I was never going to get a real conversation. I was going to get talking points. And probably you guys felt the same way about Democrats, right? Talking point, talking point, talking point. And that's why, like, for a long time we had no politicians on the show. Right? Because I'm just, I'm like, what's the point? I know what you're gonna say. I can tell you what you're gonna say before you say it. Right? So this is super boring and uninteresting. And so I'm like talking to the right wing. I'm just talking to a bunch of robots. I don't want to do that. But now it's not robots anymore. So now we've got real people going, okay, I love Trump. And I think that they're a little too enamored with Trump. Right, But I got you. But, like, do they genuinely believe in freedom? I think they do. I hope they do. And I think a lot of them do. Are a lot of them anti war? Well, we're going to find out. Right? But I think they are. And so this is the argument that I'm having with the left. They say, no give no quarter, go. Maximalist response, et cetera. A lot of people say that. Right? And I'm saying, well, let's find out first. Okay, So I know what Trump did in the past. That's why I voted against him. I know what Cash Patel has said and Hex of His said and stuff, and that's why I'm against them now having said that. But it's a new day. He actually genuinely won this election. So, number one, we're not going to get what we want on immigration because the election was partly about immigration and we lost. Okay. So if you didn't want that, then you should have picked a great candidate and you should have won. Okay. But number two, if Trump goes out of bounds, I believe that some of the right wing populace will be a check on him.

[Tim Pool]

We just saw it with his nomination for dea. So this is a, this is a guy, I forgot his name. Do you remember his name is a.

[Libby Emmons]

Chris something, the Florida sheriff. Yeah, he resigned.

[Tim Pool]

He resigned his nomination. Trump nominated him for the head of DEA and the mega base and some who aren't necessarily mega.

[Libby Emmons]

He was a Covid enforcer.

[Tim Pool]

He arrested a pastor. This is a pastor who apparently spent like 100 grand to refit his whole church so that it was compliant with all the regulations. And then this guy still arrested him and then held a press conference saying we've shut this guy down about it.

[Libby Emmons]

On what was then Twitter. He was very excited about it. And then he then also was doing major vaccine. He wasn't.

[Tim Pool]

But my point is, whether you agree or disagree, the point is Trump's base, major backlash and this guy's been forced to resign.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, I think that's super positive, even though I don't agree with Trump's base on that particular issue. And I'm not saying about the pastor, you guys might be right about the pastor. Right. But like on Covid, you know, I'm on the left. Right. And so we can get into the details of that. But the bottom line is I don't care what the issue is. I care that they held him accountable.

[Tim Pool]

But what is.

[Cenk Uygur]

So hold on, let me just finish that thought. So if they hold him accountable on the DEA guy, what I'm hoping is that they're going to hold him accountable on some of the other picks if it goes wrong. Right, so we might disagree here, but like I think there's Team Israel, which is Marco Rubio, Lee Stefanik, Mike Huckabee and Mike Walls. They're done to satiate Miriam Adelson, who gave him $137 million. So now Trump says let's, you know, give the Palestinians even more hell. Okay, fine. So far the right wing's not really going to object because they don't really care about the Palestinians. Okay, sorry if that offends you, but that's just Reality. Okay, but if Trump goes, okay, I am now helping Israel to invade Iran, okay, And we're going to go bomb them and we're going to pay and you guys are going to be on the hook for $2 trillion, et cetera. Then I, then I'm super curious, is the MAGA base going to go? No, we were after war.

[Tim Pool]

He'd lose every. I think there'd be like 30% who would be like, we trust you, Trump. Everybody else is going to be losing their minds.

[Cenk Uygur]

I hope so. And that's what I'm beginning to believe. And that's why I'm now a heretic on the left. How could you possibly think that the right wing populists are not evil? Well, I mean, and I'm saying I don't, I don't think they're evil. I think that we might massively disagree on some issues as you're seeing here. Right. But I think that these guys actually mean anti war and they mean anti corruption. Yeah. I think Trump is corrupt, but the Democratic Party is corrupt. The Republican Party is corrupt. So look, let's, let's let him do some things and then let's react. Right.

[Tim Pool]

So, so what is the. You said you're on Covid. You were, you're on the left. Like, how would you describe that?

[Cenk Uygur]

So look, did I take everything they said as fact and you know, from, from God himself? No. Right. For example, they're like, no, it's, it didn't come from the Wuhan lab. It, this virus broke out right next to one of the biggest virus labs in the world, but we think it was from an armadillo or whatever they thought it was. Right. And I was like, maybe right. But no, it was a pangolin.

[Libby Emmons]

It was a pangolin.

[Phil Labonte]

Not for a minute. Yeah.

[Libby Emmons]

For a second they were talking about pangolins and they were also talking about bats that were like 100 miles away and some cave.

[Cenk Uygur]

So I was like, look, guys, that seems less likely. It seems more likely that it came from the virus lab. On the other hand, the. Probably the core disagreement we'll have is. So everything attacked for that. What's that?

[Phil Labonte]

Did you get attacked for saying that?

[Cenk Uygur]

No, not really. Because that one was like, so, like it wasn't a big enough issue and it was so silly.

[Phil Labonte]

When did you say that?

[Cenk Uygur]

Well, let's.

[Tim Pool]

I want to. I want him to.

[Cenk Uygur]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I said it right. When they said, like throughout, I was.

[Libby Emmons]

Like, made perfect sense.

[Tim Pool]

Right. So you, what is that main point of difference we have?

[Cenk Uygur]

So it's A society, especially in democracy, with civil rights, et cetera, is a balancing act between the individual and the community. Sometimes the community wants something, but that hurts the individual rights. And sometimes you protect individual rights, but that hurts the community. Right. So how do you balance those? And a virus is a. Is a great example of how difficult it is to balance those. So. So, for example, if you had a virus, unlike Covid, that if upon contact, like, you catch it in the air at all, you're dead. Right. You're instantly dead. Well, could we then say no, everybody's got to stay home.

[Libby Emmons]

Like an Ebola type of thing. Like if.

[Cenk Uygur]

Like an Ebola, but even worse. Right. Just to make it an extreme hypothetical. Right. So I say no, then we support the community and we say, yeah, you got to stay home, and, yes, I am taking away your individual rights in that particular case now. So then you have a range of viruses, like, so for smallpox was devastating not only America, but the US Troops during the Revolutionary War. And Washington said, we're going to give you guys all, you know, this thing that's basically a vaccine. Right. But we know it's going to kill a lot of you because back then, the vaccines were horrible, and it killed a third of his army, but it saved the rest of the army and it saved the war. And that's why America exists. Now you can go back and say, I can't believe he took away their individual freedom. I can't believe not only did he kick him out, he didn't kick them out of the army, but he killed them in a sense. Right. But overall, it was the right decision. So that's why it's not easy. And so in the case of COVID in the beginning, it seemed so viral that, yeah, I agreed with. You should wear masks outside, and you want to contain the number of people in a house. Yeah. Now, at some point, it got absurd, right?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Cenk Uygur]

And so. And when it got absurd, I said, all right, guys, we're done with this. What are we doing? The kids gotta go back to school, et cetera. Now, looking back at it, in hindsight, there are probably a couple of things I would have done differently. But you see what I'm saying by being on the left means in that case, I wanted to protect the community more.

[Tim Pool]

We don't disagree with that. I don't think that's a left right thing. Trump was the one who came out and said two weeks to slow the spread and initiated the push for lockdowns in the first place. I think the issue was when BLM was protesting and rioting during COVID The media and prominent personalities were like, this actually slowed the spread, I think.

[Libby Emmons]

Well, and you also had a whole bunch of doctors come out and sign a letter saying that racism was a bigger health threat than Covid. And then when you also had Andrew Cuomo saying, you know, if you're going out to protest for blm, then that's okay, but otherwise you need to stay home. And then you had 10,000 people out front of the Brooklyn Museum, you know, protesting for black trans lives. And the rest of us were supposed to stay home because we weren't doing that.

[Tim Pool]

Let me do this. Let me jump to this segment. I want to pull this story up from Neiman Lab. Heavens me, this is one of the greatest headlines I've ever seen. For those that don't know, Neiman Lab is a journalism college university institution, and they report and cover how things go in media. So if you're working, if you're in journalism school or you work in media, you know all about them. Here's their headline. Tuning Out TV News Might be behind the Decline in Media Trust. No, really? Okay, here's the first paragraph. A new wide ranging study finds that trust in news has fallen further in countries where television news use has declined, as well as in countries where more people are turning to social media for news. So let me just scream this. They are saying, wow, in the places where people don't watch TV news, trust has declined. That must mean not watching TV news makes you not trust them. Perhaps they could look back, think for two seconds, and realize people have dumped TV news because they're lying.

[Libby Emmons]

That makes more sense.

[Tim Pool]

Holy crap.

[Libby Emmons]

This is like something that my son was telling me about where he was saying that the children of atheists have higher reading levels. And I was like, that's because atheists are mostly intellectuals who went to college. Like, that's why it's not about the.

[Tim Pool]

So you know, what I see here is we all watched a media uncritically just say, oh, Joe's not going to pardon his son. There's that viral video, nine minutes of them saying, but he said he wouldn't do it. And then when he does, they're like, I never saw that coming.

[Libby Emmons]

We kept reporting on at the Post Millennial. We kept saying, karine Jean Pierre said that Biden would not pardon his son. Biden said, biden will not pardon his son. John Kirby, whoever said it, Biden will not pardon his son. And people were like, why? You know, like, we covered this already. I'm like, no, we have to keep covering it because they are lying and that's going to come out and we need the record of these lies. And of course, no one was surprised when, when Hunter Biden was pardoned. Yeah, I know the people who were surprised, like, like, where have you guys been? Like, obviously this was going to happen. And then NBC reported that they were considering it back in June after the first conviction on the gun charges. And of course they were you guys, of course.

[Phil Labonte]

But for, this is for everybody. Do you get the sense that the rank and file Democrat. But do you think that they were surprised? Because I feel like they.

[Libby Emmons]

I kind of agree with, I kind of agree with Sank on this, though, Chenk on this one, because they were. He's saying that, that the unity is the main thing that they have to go along, you know, So I don't even think that they know whether or not they feel that they were deceived.

[Tim Pool]

They were surprised because they're marching in lockstep with the approved line. And then overnight it changed without them knowing.

[Libby Emmons]

But they just, they keep going along with the approved line, whatever it is. They're like, oh, we're going this way. Yep, now we're going this way. Now our hair is blue. Now we're screaming. Now we're not.

[Phil Labonte]

Jake, I'd like to, I'd like.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, so this is the part that I agree with you guys most on. So first off, I totally agree with your interpretation of this, you know, article and that this is the kind of stuff that basically Noam Chomsky warned about decades ago. And, and so I had no. On the show a couple of times and I asked him one time, I said, so where do you get your news? You know, the New York Times and CNN and all these things, you know, skew the news, they manufacture consent, etc. Right. You're the guy who originally wrote about it. So he says, what I do is I read the New York Times or Washington Post just for the facts. And I ignore all other words, sentences, et cetera, because that's their BS interpretation. So this is a good example. So, you know, TV viewing has gone down. That's a fact. No problem. Right. Trust in media has gone down. That's a fact. No problem. Right. And then they say, that's because people aren't watching TV and that's why. And they hate online me. No, that's not a fact. You made that part up. Okay, I could take those two facts and as Tim said, I could interpret that correctly as. Yet they decline in trust in media that's why they stopped watching tv. Like, it's super obvious. That's a better explanation. And the fact that they write it as if they're writing an objective piece, right. With the exact opposite interpretation is what is maddening. And so that's what I mean by the establishment prison. They all have certain, like, talking points and a certain group think, and they're going to shove that down your throat. And unfortunately, these days, and what. I'm greatly frustrated by the Democratic Party and that's why I want to reform it, is that. Yes, it, it's, it's more true of Democrats these days. And that is why they get confused on the pardon, right? Because to answer your question, guys, they, no, they really believed everything Joe Biden says. So when Joe Biden said he wasn't going to pardon his son, the mainstream Democratic voters thought, oh, that means that Joe Biden's a saint. He never lies, right? Trump's a giant liar. But all of our. And all the Republicans are liars. Mitch McConnell's liar, et cetera. But Pelosi and Biden have never told a lie. They're angels, right? I mean, I got yelled at on NPR because I said, Look, Mitch McConnell takes $1 billion and serves as donors, right? And everybody's like, generally, yeah, right, right, right. And I said, nancy Pelosi takes a billion dollars and serves her donors, right? They're like, how dare you, right? And then the listeners are irate, the host is irate, et cetera, right?

[Tim Pool]

Blasphemy.

[Cenk Uygur]

Blasphemy. So when Joe Biden says he's not going to pardon, they genuinely believed it. And so they're shocked. And what I've been saying all along is, guys, establishment politicians are all liars, like, through and through. Because the central lie of both the politicians and the establishment media is the donors are not in charge.

[Tim Pool]

Well, let me.

[Cenk Uygur]

The donors have nothing to do with anything. And in. And you know, there is no establishment. I was on Piers Morgan and this is a really interesting story, right? And a sample. Dan Crenshaw, who's more establishment as a politician, right? Dan Crenshaw go. I said this exact same thing. And he goes, just, oh, that's ridiculous. There is no establishment, okay? And we don't do what our donors tell us. And I was like, hold on, Vinny, what do you think, Vinny from Patrick Bed David show, right? Right wing populist. He's like, of course it's an establishment. And of course you guys do what your donors tell you to do, right? See, there is the Realignment, populist, agreeing and they against the establishment.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I'm trying to have a little bit of nuance here because I feel like you use the establishment as a catch all when there are multiple different interests at play and they're often against one another. So for example, we'll call Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden both the establishment. But gu. Nancy Pelosi was behind kind of stabbing Joe Biden in the back. I'm kind of asking this because for all your political opponents, it seems all of them are only motivated by money all of the time. However, for who are all the candidates you support? All of them are so pure hearted. So is it that simple where it's just like no, you know, if you are a Republican it's.

[Tim Pool]

He said Pelosi and McConnell are both.

[Elad Eliyahu]

No, not Pelosi. I'm saying Pelosi and Joe Biden, these are establishments of the same party. I'm just saying there's multiple. The establishment is too catch all and there are multiple different interests, powerful interests at play and they're often antithetical to one another. So like there's big tech, there's big tech influence and they raise a ton of money. Elon Musk raised over $100 million but apparently it's only a bad raise.

[Cenk Uygur]

It. He gave it.

[Elad Eliyahu]

He gave it. But when Miriam Adelson gives $100 million to Donald Trump, it's a bigger deal. And will.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, I think both are a big deal. Okay.

[Elad Eliyahu]

But it just seems like you seem.

[Cenk Uygur]

To focus on that Tim Mellon gave even more. Tim Mellon gave $170 million. So is it problem when we have Democrat donors?

[Tim Pool]

I want to talk about media and so I want to.

[Cenk Uygur]

Can I just answer them real quick on one thing? No, brother. So when Matt Gates and Josh Hawley stopped taking corporate PAC money, they then introduced anti corruption bills, anti war bills. And I said there you go, that's the difference, right? You stop taking corporate PAC money. And so I still have huge disagreements with Matt Gates and Hawley on other things. But at least they got honest on that front. Right. That puts them in the populist camp rather than the establishment camp. And so if there's a delineation, the best delineation is probably corporate package money. And so in terms of Pelosi and Biden, that is a super rare thing. That's why everybody was shocked because especially on the. Well, it used to be on both sides, but Trump changed the Republican side. But on. So on the Democratic side the establishment never turns on one another, never so when Pelosi did it to Biden, it was shocking. I couldn't believe it. Right, because here we are, me and, you know, a couple of other people saying what the Biden's is not young, this is terrible, et cetera. But we're not gonna win that fight. We need to push, push, push until someone like Pelosi and behind the scenes Obama said, yeah, no, he's too old.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I think there's more infighting behind the establishment and easy attack.

[Tim Pool]

Talking about media, one of the things I wanted to ask you is we can see the establishment media there lying and all these things, but I've got some issues with things that you guys have reported in the past pertaining to me. And I think there's liars on the right and the independent media space. There are people. There was one video where this is a couple months ago, I noticed that we were on. We were featured on the front page of YouTube, default not signed in or whatever. I was like, oh, wow, that's crazy. And I noticed that our viewership jumped. So I checked with a, with a, you know, incognito window. I also noticed a different video where someone took two clips of you and me. Totally different videos. You on your show talking about something unrelated to me. Me on my show talking about something unrelated to you, but edit it to make it seem like we were debating. It had 40,000 views and I had never seen that before, probably because I don't really browse these kinds of videos. But the comments were people being like, wow, you know, Jack got him. Oh, Tim snapped back and I'm like, wow, they made a fake debate between us. And so certainly I think there's a lot of fake news going all around. But I was going to first ask about, you know, Anna Kasparian. She was saying that after she got assaulted by this homeless guy, she's not only was she called racist, but she saw these other progressive channels were making things up about her and lying about. And that was like a wake up call. So my response was, yes, this is what we see from the larger left space. An example I have from you guys, and it's not the biggest news story in the world or anything, but it's just one example off the top of my head is that there were five different studies that came out that said conservatives are more attractive than liberals on average. And you guys did, I think, three different videos about me. And in it, in one with Nando Villa, who I know, and Anna, who I know, they insulted me, called me ugly, said I was wrong, Having nothing to do with news. This is what I get from progressive media when I was 100% dispassionate and correct. My point was we had a study that came out as a story from like the Washington Post that said conservatives tend to be more attractive. And I said, this is why you'll tend to see conservatives being fiercely independent and meritocratic, because people who are more attractive go through life, it's easier, everybody wants to give them things. And then they say, hey, I lifted myself up by my bootstraps, why can't everybody else. Liberals who tend to be less attractive say it's hard to live without support groups and they band together. That's actually what multiple studies have found. The response I got from you guys was three different segments where I was called ugly, stupid, gross, crooked teeth, putting up ugly pictures of me. And so my question to you is why? And like, how is that any better from the corporate press?

[Cenk Uygur]

So there's, there's two things there. So number one, look, Tim, we went through this last time I was on the show too, so brother, I don't agree with your interpretation. And I think that it's kind of self serving to say our side is more attractive. And I know that you think I'm.

[Tim Pool]

Not saying my side, it's not my side. I'm not a conservative. I know, but I didn't make this up. This is numerous studies.

[Cenk Uygur]

I got you. I don't, I. Look, there's eight different ways to frame an article. There's eight different ways to frame a study. So you got to be careful about what the study says. So, so look, we disagree on that, but were, did we go too far in, in having laughs, et cetera, about, oh, the attractive, et cetera? Yeah, we probably did. Okay. And so, but back then we were more entrenched warfare, right? And so back then, and the reason why a lot of the right wing has a completely skewed version of me is because people take clips out of, usually out of context, or you're doing a big long segment and they'll take a 5 second clip, a 30 second clip, a 15 second clip, et cetera. And that's all the other side ever sees. So we see all of your, whatever is the right wing points of view, right? We don't see any of the left wing stuff, we don't see any of the independent stuff because that didn't make the news. Right? So for me, same thing for right wing media. They will show you stuff that they think is outrageous, but they're not going to show you all the times that I said, oh, it's probably from the Wuhan lab. Biden is too old, whatever. All those things, Right? So that's why we started getting a crazy, skewed view of all of us, of each other, right? So part of what Anna and I are doing now is we're trying to break down those walls, right? And so you're here. That's why I'm here. That's why I was here last time. That's why I'm going on Patrick Bet David again. That's why I going on drinking Bros. And like, you know, and these are all over the place, like, Lex Friedman. What's his politics? Nobody even knows. Right. And I don't really care. I just care about the conversation. I went on Chris Williamson's show. I'm not sure what his politics are. Right? Yeah. And so I went on trigonometry. So what? Let's have a conversation. Because part of the reason why we were making fun of each other and insulting each other and doing all this stuff is because we were so separated, we. We stopped thinking of each other as fellow citizens, fellow Americans. And so for the left, I'm trying to break that down. And guys, go, let's hear them out. Are they actually anti war? Before you make up your mind, are they actually anti corruption? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I got you, brother. But let's take. Okay, look, the labor secretary. There's no reason not to like the labor secretary. The Teamsters helped to pick the Labor Secretary. So take the goddamn win. Take the win, Right? So if they really want to cut the Pentagon, great. Are you kidding me? We've been dying to cut the Pentagon. Are you now going to say that you don't want to cut the Pentagon despite Trump? Trump? That's crazy, right? So we're trying to break down the walls and have these conversations to that point.

[Phil Labonte]

That's something that we actually have, or at least I have, and I've heard Tim mentioned as well that we try to do or want to see happen, because I believe that the craziness that has come from the left is from the extreme left and not from the normal kind of moderate left. And there was a time in the United States where people on the left or people that were left leaning and people that were right leaning could, you know, go to barbecues together and hang out together and do normal things that weren't political without trying to kill each other, without actually, you know, hating each other. And I think that that kind of stuff starts by Coming back to the fact that we're all Americans, we all want what's best for the country, or at least that's, that's the common ground we should be able to find. And if you can talk to people that actually do want what's best for the country, best for the people of America, then you can actually start to have a more civil political discourse in the country. And it's something, again, I've talked about this a bunch of times, and it's, it's something that's, that's in my opinion, necessary because as, as much as everyone talks about the meme of civil war, I've talked about we need an off ramp. And the off ramp is being able to talk to people without getting at other people's throats. And that's something me and Tim have talked about.

[Tim Pool]

I think you being here, it's a major win.

[Phil Labonte]

Absolutely.

[Tim Pool]

I, I respect and appreciate your response on things. I'm sure. I've got videos as well. Everybody does. I don't think I'm a saint. But when we can have these conversations, we can pull up stories, we can discuss them, we can disagree on what they mean. Like the Trump Constitution thing, you say you're crazy, you're wrong. But we're here, and that's massive. And I think that's going to. I'm really optimistic moving forward. I'm glad you are, too.

[Cenk Uygur]

So let me say a couple of things about it. First, I was guilty of it, no question. I remember writing after 2020, I'm like, I don't want to know any Trump voters. I don't want to associate with Trump voters. I got no interest in it. Okay? And so, but what I've seen is that, first of all, the Trump base changed. I'm the only one on the left saying that. And I'm so curious to see if I'm right or wrong, because only time is going to tell. When Trump does something the base doesn't like, is he tested, et cetera, et cetera. Right. But more importantly, when I started seeing exactly to your point about the Civil War, not only did a big percentage of, of the right wing want to separate, like Marjorie Taylor Greene was saying, but then in the polls, I started seeing. Wait a minute. A huge percentage of Democrats want to separate.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Cenk Uygur]

Like, and, and so not, not as much as Republicans at that time. Republicans had lost right. In 2020, so of course they wanted it more. But it was a big number for the Democrats. Oh, maybe we separate out the coast and. Oh, yeah. And we'll leave the rest of them to die or whatever, right? Or be living squalor, all this stuff. I'm like, what do you. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, I hate this. Because we're supposed to be America. It's United States of America, right? And so with that, division was good. Now it's gotten to, like a cancerous state where Joy Reed is saying, don't talk to family at Thanksgiving. Right?

[Tim Pool]

That's crazy.

[Cenk Uygur]

That's crazy. So some of my family members, some of my best friends are right wing, right? And we. And we do what we kind of are doing on this show. I go, you're crazy because you're crazy. And then we go have a beer, right?

[Libby Emmons]

That's really good that you can do that. I mean, it was like. It was like a few days after the election, before my mom would return my text.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, no, we hear that. Yeah. We can't do that, man. We've got to talk to each other. Otherwise we might not know when we agree.

[Tim Pool]

Well, maybe. Maybe you can reach out to Crystal Ball and ask her to apologize. Because I saw that clip from earlier where she. She lied about me. Or maybe she was just wrong and she didn't fact check what she was saying. But, you know, I get sent this clip where you were on her show and she said, I was told to push Russian propaganda or some other nonsense. Like it was a complete fabrication. Not true. You were even on that show, which is totally independent. No one told us to host you on the Culture War podcast. It was a show that got licensed out. And then I think this is another, you know, so we have the clip here. I mean, it's just Crystal Ball saying, you know, I'm black pilled because, you know, Tim Pool took shady money and was told to push propaganda or whatever, which is completely fake, like, just not. Not real. And so maybe there's an opportunity for. I asked her for a retraction and apology. Well, I don't know what else I'm supposed to do. It's not true. And maybe there's, you know, you can reach out to her and tell her. You're not gonna say, hey, Tim Pool, hitch up?

[Cenk Uygur]

No, Tim, I mean, look, so how do we.

[Tim Pool]

How do we. How do we fix problems like this?

[Cenk Uygur]

Okay, but, Tim, then you're gonna make me ask your question. Okay, but if that's not what happened, what happened?

[Tim Pool]

You were on that show, the Culture War, right?

[Cenk Uygur]

It was on one episode.

[Tim Pool]

You're on one episode. Sure, we produced it in house. You came to our studio. We Reached out to you, asked you to come on the show. Nobody told us to do that. We produce everything. I own the company 100%. And we licensed distribution, not exclusively, to one company that was run out of Tennessee by a prominent conservative podcaster who worked for the Blaze. That's what happened after the fact. If she got money from anywhere else, I have nothing to do with that.

[Cenk Uygur]

Right. So I also did come from the Russians at some point.

[Tim Pool]

Allegedly. Right.

[Cenk Uygur]

Now you acknowledge that. So.

[Tim Pool]

Well, there's a DOJ indictment alleging that RT employees had funneled money through shell companies to Lauren Chen, which she then used to pay out multiple personalities that she had signed agreements with. I don't know about the agreements of any other people. But the question I asked of Sam. See, I don't ask of you. You have sponsors on the Young Turks.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Do you ask them where they get their funding from? When. When a company comes to you and says, hey, we want to license a segment from your show, do you say, hold on, I got to figure out what company is providing the funding? What's your revenue sources, Tim?

[Cenk Uygur]

I would say it depends. If you're a normal sponsor and you had a normal negotiation about CPMs, et cetera, there's no reason to suspect. But we, we do check a little bit more diligently, but at the same time, we're not like doctrinarian about like, for example, Polymarket is one of our sponsors. God bless. So some people say, oh, you should. I don't like them. Okay.

[Tim Pool]

They're getting investigated or something.

[Cenk Uygur]

But we don't take money from oil companies. We don't take money from defense contractors. So there's a whole list of people we don't take money from. Yes. So we do do do some due diligence. Right. So. And in that case. And I criticize you for this, Tim, look, that is. That's a monster number.

[Tim Pool]

No, it isn't.

[Cenk Uygur]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

Really? How much money do you make per month?

[Cenk Uygur]

So I'm not going to get into how much money we make per month. No, but per video. Per video to getting $100,000 per video is a monster number. An outrageously high number.

[Tim Pool]

It's absolutely not correct.

[Cenk Uygur]

You make $100,000 regularly per video.

[Tim Pool]

The. So that we. We do eight figures on Timcast. A Timcast IRL is an eight figure per year company. So when we get approached by. I'm trying to be careful because we're currently doing contract negotiations with a bunch of different companies and we have sponsors. We have one sponsor that pays us a hundred Thousand dollars we get. In one instance, we got $50,000 for one ad read. So when we go to contract negotiations and we say, hey, guess What, Tim cast IRL is the biggest live show on YouTube, Primetime. That costs a lot of money. So if you come to Tim Pool and you say, we want to license a show for, you may say, why would I do it? So right at the. So this is important and we're rehashing something that most of my audience already knows. I was negotiating with three different companies. We were fielding multiple offers. One of those offers was $30 million. I took a lesser offer with lesser responsibilities. That's it. You also notice if you look at the indictment, that Dave Rubin and Benny Johnson, independently of me, negotiated comparable contracts. How is that possible? Well, they have agents. Agents negotiate on their behalf. When you look at Call Her Daddy selling for $100 million, Joe Rogan for selling for $250 million, Travis Kelce selling for $100 million, are those crazy numbers in the podcast industry? So if Tim Pool, who hosts the largest live Show, PrimeTime on YouTube, is approached by someone to license a new show, there's going to be a premium rate comparable to any other podcast. Now, that's besides the point. Whether or not I negotiate something or not, all of it goes through lawyers. I own the production company outright. For Crystal Ball to then fabricate this. Or maybe she just doesn't know what she's talking about, that I was told to do things. It's an absurdity. It's not correct. My point ultimately, in bringing it up is when she propagates this disinformation which seeks to discredit me and this show, it's just not true. We did a license agreement with a company. I mean, look, someone from the Blaze comes to us and says, hey, we got a vc. I ask who it is. They say, here's the guy the indictment even mentioned. They staged a fake phone call with me and the VC to, because we did our due diligence, sent it to the lawyers. The lawyers did their research. We then conferred with other people, we had negotiations to then claim that we did something untoward or we are part of some manipulative thing. It's discrediting the space and it's. It's bad for independent media.

[Cenk Uygur]

So, Tim, maybe the difference in how we perceive it is because left wing and right wing media is not comparable in terms of money.

[Tim Pool]

Call Her Daddy. She has a comparable.

[Cenk Uygur]

Podcast is different. Podcast is different because what people were doing was trying to establish market position.

[Tim Pool]

Rachel Maddow got $25 million in a new contract negotiations. She gets 38,000 views in the key demo. I'm sorry, MSNBC does apples to apples, right?

[Cenk Uygur]

So podcasts are different. Cable news is different. So. But on online media, the left wing has none of the revenue you guys have. We just have normal ads. We just have normal subscribers. We like, we're the biggest. And I've asked everyone else. Nobody gets 50,000, 100,000 a video. Nobody gets those deals.

[Tim Pool]

You're bad at business. No, you know, do you know who our sponsors are? We have normal mainstream sponsors. We do things like BetterHelp.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, we're definitely not bad at business. Okay. We've been around the longest on the Internet, et cetera. I wish there were sponsors that gave that to left wing. But hey, and if there's any sponsors watching, we've got a gigantic show. Okay. Give us fifty hundred thousand dollars a pop. We'd love to take it.

[Tim Pool]

What's your net like? Do you do your own ad sales, like internally?

[Cenk Uygur]

So we're now we're getting into way too much business talk. But I'm telling you, you ask any left wing person online and we don't get a fraction of that money. A fraction. So there's a ton of. Look, now let me not talking about you, not talking about any particular creator. Zoom out. There are the reason why the right wing ecosystem generally has way more money is because industry and wealthy people want a right wing in the old school ways, the Republican way of thinking. Tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, deregulation. There's all these things that corporations want, industry wants, really rich people want, and the left does not give them any of it.

[Tim Pool]

But I'm not for those things.

[Cenk Uygur]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

I argue.

[Cenk Uygur]

So that's why I'm saying it's divorced from you. Like, I don't know what your situation is. Forget the Russians. But the other sponsors, right? So I don't know why they're giving you. And God bless, take it. Yeah, okay. I mean if, if it's a real sponsor and they're giving you that kind of money, I'm not telling you to say no. I wouldn't say no. Right. But on the left, what you guys don't see because you've never experienced is there's none of that, none of that.

[Tim Pool]

In the independent left.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. In the independent, I think if you.

[Tim Pool]

Look at like I mentioned, Joe Rogan was a Bernie bro. He very much did not want to endorse Trump. And four years ago he got, I think it was a $250 million podcast deal. He was on the left. He repeatedly called for.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, that's not the perception, but again, that's podcast.

[Tim Pool]

But Kyle Kalinske, he posted this viral video where he says, look at all of Joe's progressive and left wing policies from a few years ago.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, no, I'm not arguing that. Joe, look, I would never call Joe left wing. And then I got super frustrated at him for being too right wing for a while. I still think he's on the whole. On the right. Okay. Now, having said all that, his positions are all over the board. Right. He's also pro choice. He. Yes, you're right that he endorsed Bernie. And why do. And the mainstream media can't get it through their head, why did he endorse Bernie and then Trump? Because it's not left. Right. It's populist versus establishment. Rogan is a true populist. Right.

[Tim Pool]

I agree.

[Cenk Uygur]

And I might disagree with him on a bunch of issues and I do. Right. And sometimes I'll get angry about those issues. I don't know if he does or not. That's okay. We're all different people. Right. But we're on the same populist side. So in his case, the reason why the numbers are huge is because there was a competition in the podcast market, Spotify, Sirius and others, where they were trying to establish market position. And when they do that, just like Amazon did in the beginning, you lose money in the beginning and then you make a lot more once you've established market position. So that was a theory as to why they were paying giant numbers for podcasts that couldn't. That they couldn't recoup. And by the way, most of those deals, they did not recoup. They lost money on most of those deals.

[Tim Pool]

So, right. Right now we're in what's called upfronts. You know what? Upfront. Yeah, yeah. What I'm hearing like, we've basically got bidding wars going on the contract. That's why I try to be careful because we do contract negotiations and I've largely just done Casper and we've promoted ourselves, make our own companies, control our own ip. But to sort of advance the conversation, I just keep harping on us. Since Donald Trump won and all of the media has been reporting that this is the podcast presidency, advertisers are telling us YouTube is the number one space now. And so what we're likely going to see into next year is, I think you guys are going to break the bank. I think young Turks will probably skyrocket. The Things we're hearing. What's happening now is Rachel Maddow. She's getting paid. She was getting $30 million. Then she gets 25 because they have to pull her salary down. But MSNBC is their latest ratings, I think. I don't know if it was primetime or whatever was 38,000 in the key demo. Demo. You probably. You could make a video of you just gardening and get more views than that in the key demo.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, that's a bad.

[Libby Emmons]

Ratings keep dropping.

[Tim Pool]

I know. And. And the ratings keep going down.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So the advertisers first were going to podcasts like Apple, Spotify, and they're like audio podcast listeners are deeply engaged. So there's a premium on the CPMs, like, how much they're going to pay per thousand viewers. And what I'm hearing now from everybody is YouTube has officially taken over. Advertisers have finally realized. YouTube finally realized YouTube was suppressing podcasts. You know, this. They were treating talk shows like garbage. And they were like, we don't. We don't want this for our audience. We want video. Now they're realizing this shaped the presidency. This is shaping politics. All the big companies are now saying, we want those premium spots. This is great news for all of the populists. Independent media, the corporate press is going to collapse under their own failures. They're desperate. And what we're going to see is you're for better or for worse, whatever people might think. Young turks is going to be able to hire 100 new employees in the next year or two as advertisers start coming around and saying, this is obviously where the space is at. And we're going to see the creation of massive networks with huge stars with huge salaries emerging. So ask yourself, how do they pay Hannity? You know, like, what does he get, like 30 to 60 million? I don't know what his salary is.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah, some huge number. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

How do they afford that? Well, their viewership used to be in the tens of millions. Yep, made sense. Now it's all going away. And the independent channels are going to start taking pieces of that pie as advertisers look for ways to sell products.

[Libby Emmons]

And a lot of people don't have cable either. Like, if I want to watch an MSNBC segment on my phone, I have to log in with my TV provider. Well, I don't have one. You know, like, I subscribe to YouTube stuff. I subscribe to a bunch of other stuff. I don't have any cable subscription.

[Cenk Uygur]

So let me give you a general business sense of It. So all the things you just said about the advertising space, that, that, that's where we agree most, right? So first of all, with television, they used to have 100 million subscribers. So MSNBC, CNN and Fox News would range from a dollar to $4 per month per subscriber. So that means that we're taking in 100 to 400 million dollars a month. Wow. A month just from subscribers doesn't count. Advertisers. Subscribers are a bigger part of their business than advertisers were. And now their average age for all the cable news guys is around 70 years old. Like they do those shows out of a senior citizen center. Okay. And yet the rest of the mainstream media is like, they're the most important. They're the most important. Like if we all had audiences that were, had an average age of 70, what would mainstream media say? They're like, they're irrelevant. They're garbage. They're just for old people. Who cares, right? They're so biased they can't see straight. So now that they've gone from 100 million to 60 million subscribers, they just lost 40% of their main revenue source. They're reeling. So that racial material contract was mental. To give her 25 million a year for one day as your ship is sinking and you spun off your company because you know it's going under. Right. That is nuts. And so advertisers, generally speaking, are the most conservative people on earth. I don't mean politically, I mean by nature. Right? So you could show an advertiser, look, here's where all of the audience is. But they say interesting things. Here's the another sign. There's two people watching. They're both 98. But they will say totally insipid things. Nothing interesting will be said. An advertiser. Like, I'll take the non interesting one. I'll take the non interesting one. I don't care if there's no audience. I don't care. I'll. Oh no, no, no. Don't say anything, Brandon. Safe.

[Tim Pool]

But now what's interesting with YouTube is with programmatic ads, the rates are going to go up. And when I put on Fox News or CNN or whatever, skateboard commercials. Come on. So now it doesn't even matter. YouTube's going to put the ads where the ads function. And this is YouTube TV. So this is an analog for cable.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. The money's shifting in a big way and the dam is going to break. That's where I agree with you most, Cenk.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I wanted to pivot to one of the issues that I know you're outspoken about, Israel, Palestine and the war in Gaza. I was looking at a couple of clips of you talking about the issue earlier and you accused Israel of genocide. I want to know if you still believe that and if you could elaborate a little bit more on why you believe that.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, 100%. So look, Gaza is a slaughterhouse. 44,000 dead, 104,000 injured, 90% of the people displaced, 85% of the buildings damaged or completely destroyed. Now they're taking a 12 square mile area in the middle of Gaza and saying that's now Israeli land. Okay, well then was it about self defense or was it about taking land? So they're starving the people of northern Gaza. The American government acknowledges, the UN acknowledges that. Every reporter acknowledges it. So when you. And they're moving the population down south, when you move a giant population and you starve them and you kill them and, and on and on and on, that is a genocide.

[Elad Eliyahu]

So just because I want to see if you're being, you know, morally consistent with this, do you think the Russians are genociding Ukrainians?

[Cenk Uygur]

So I'm 100% against the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I hate it. And that's why I believed in supporting Ukraine throughout this. Now the problem is that the defense contractors are making so much money off of it, I can't tell what more.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Ukrainians have died in the Russia, Ukraine war than Gazans in Gaza during this most current war. I'm just trying to understand 11,000 civilians.

[Cenk Uygur]

Civilians have been killed in Ukraine.

[Elad Eliyahu]

And how many civilians were killed in Gaza?

[Cenk Uygur]

Of the 44, 000, at least three quarters are civilians.

[Elad Eliyahu]

How do you know that? Because Hamas doesn't release the numbers.

[Cenk Uygur]

So first of all, two thirds of them are women and children. Okay, so right there. Okay, that, that's a giant number. Second of all, even if you take the IDF numbers, they've moved them from 9,000, 11,000, 12,000. So let's take 12,000. 12,000 to 44,000 is still a giant.

[Elad Eliyahu]

There's no genocide in Ukraine according to your definition. Just, I mean, you could hem and haw, but I'm trying to get to.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, no, I think the Russian invasion is horrible and they took land. If they're moving Ukrainians from one area to another, forcibly moving them, then I would say that's ethnic cleansing.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Okay, right. Now, the one last follow up. Do you also acknowledge the Armenian genocide?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, absolutely. And so in fact, the Armenian genocide is an excellent example of why it's a genocide in Gaza.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Well, I mean, more than a million Armenians were killed, so I feel like these aren't like, kind at all. And then also the Armenians were complet driven out of their land in Turkey.

[Cenk Uygur]

Like the Palestinians. What kind of like the Palestinians?

[Elad Eliyahu]

Well, they still exist in Gaza and.

[Cenk Uygur]

The west bank and they've been driven from North Gaza. Okay, so, brother, look, Armenian genocide. What happens is the Armenians are part of the Ottoman Empire. They rebel. Why do they rebel? Because the Turks are occupying them, in a sense. And there's different rules for Christians than there are for Muslims. There's different rules for Romanians than there are for Turks. The empire lasted for 500 years because those rules were not too onerous. But were they different? Of course they were different. Did they want their own country? They do. Okay, so they rebelled. When they rebelled, did they kill Turkish civilians? Of course they did, but. Right.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I feel like you're justifying it.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, but I'm not justifying. Exact opposite justification.

[Elad Eliyahu]

You're saying, oh, well, the Armenians were attacking Turks and that's what led to them driving the Armenians out.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, you didn't let me finish. I'm saying the exact opposite. So what the Turks said was, well, they hit our civilians, they're terrorists. And you know what? They didn't have a military installation. Of course they didn't, because they're insurgents. So they were hiding among their civilians. So we had to kill their civilians, the church. The Ottoman. Ottoman explanation was nearly identical to the Israeli explanation. They're both genocides and both are justified by. Yeah, but they didn't. They didn't have uniforms on. And we moved them from. To a more convenient place so they would be safer. It's always the same justification, Srebrenica. Same exact thing. Oh, we gotta move them. Oh, we gotta kill them, we gotta starve them.

[Elad Eliyahu]

The Kurds were also genocided, so.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, the Kurds are a completely different situation. They're in three different countries at a minimum, maybe extra, actually four, in big numbers. And those countries treat them in different ways. So when Turkey, for example, did not allow them to speak the Kurdish language and had different and oppressive rules, I was against it.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Did it qualify as genocide when they were trying. When they.

[Cenk Uygur]

Not to kill them and then not speaking your own language is not.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I think it. Maybe you probably know better than me, but tens of thousands of Kurds were killed and ethnically cleansed in different part of Turkey. And you don't think that qualifies as a genocide?

[Cenk Uygur]

I don't think that. I don't stipulate to those facts at all. I think that they're. That what the Turkish government was doing and setting different rules was wrong. But they changed that. Kurds vote in Turkish elections. They can get elected.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Arab Israelis vote in Israel.

[Cenk Uygur]

That's right, in Israel. But in. But in the occupied territories. Five and a half million people enslaved. Right. Five and a half million people under permanent occupation.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Slavery. Compared to what we did have in this country.

[Cenk Uygur]

You sound exactly like the Turks excusing the Armenian genocide.

[Elad Eliyahu]

You sound like the Turks excusing the Kurdish genocide. But I think we have a different segment.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. Okay, so now you want to get into random things and pretend you just say, oh, I murdered all these Palestinians, but it's okay because I'm beloved Israel. It's not okay. You did murder them. I hate it. I hate all the wars Israel starts. I hate that they make us pay for all their wars.

[Elad Eliyahu]

The most moral army trying their best to protect most moral. No, it is in with. It is Hamas's interest to have as many civilians.

[Cenk Uygur]

Nonsense.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Please don't talk over me. I let you finish your report. It's within Hamas's interest to have as many civilians killed so they could. They made us kill them so they could.

[Cenk Uygur]

Poor Israelis.

[Elad Eliyahu]

They hide, really hide behind and checks. It's for impressionable westerners like you and. And western liberals and communists to get misled about this.

[Cenk Uygur]

Communist? What does that have to do with it?

[Elad Eliyahu]

Far leftists and communists support the Palestinian right wing. I know in the west you're saying communists don't support Hamas.

[Phil Labonte]

Western communists.

[Cenk Uygur]

You think this about communism and capitalism. I've been Israel grabbing. Attack, attack, attack.

[Tim Pool]

Kill America, pay for it.

[Cenk Uygur]

America pay for it.

[Elad Eliyahu]

These are all socialists and communists.

[Cenk Uygur]

Israel is a terrorist state. It's a rogue state. And I'm sick of my taxpayer dollars going to murder Palestinians because Netanyahu wants to do it. He's a goddamn terrorist.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I got no interest Palestinians, there's no. There's no stipulating factors. Netanyahu is crazy and just want to kill as many civilians as. And that's why he's only killed 40. Allegedly 40,000, most of whom.

[Cenk Uygur]

All right, guys, how many Palestinian children do you Want to murder? 50,000 dead kids.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Imagine they're not 50,000 dead kids.

[Cenk Uygur]

They're not. Everyone is wrong except the beloved Israelis. Everyone is lying.

[Tim Pool]

You guys don't even agree on the facts of the issue.

[Elad Eliyahu]

So.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, because he's making up facts. Everyone in the world agrees except his. Israel says no. Don't believe any reporters. Don't believe any human Rights.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Everybody in the world.

[Cenk Uygur]

Don't believe the United Nations. Don't believe anyone.

[Tim Pool]

Don't believe in any.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, we're the moral army. We only slaughtered 44,000 people.

[Elad Eliyahu]

We only slaughtered 15,000 innocent pelops.

[Tim Pool]

We're going to go to Super Chats.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Just why do you think they include.

[Tim Pool]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. We're going to go to Super Chats.

[Libby Emmons]

Super Chats.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yay.

[Tim Pool]

Hey, smash that like button. Subscribe to this channel. Share the show with everyone you know. Head over to timcast.com and click join us because we're going to have a, believe it or not, an uncensored version of this. It'll be fun and but we're actually going to take call take calls from you guys and I think it'll be a really good conversation. So it will be fun to have you guys as members call in and ask us questions. But for now, we'll read you. We will read your Super Chats. Let's go. We got YouTube actually deleted a good portion of them. So I apologize. I can't do anything about it. It just crashes all the time. Sarah Hunter says. Thanks for being on Jake. It's awesome to have these conversations. I agree and there are certainly many disparaging comments as well. But hey, man, we got to open up the doors and we got it. We got to do this. So I appreciate it. This is fantastic. Darth Starbucks says Cenk doesn't believe in democracy or the Constitution when it doesn't benefit his side.

[Cenk Uygur]

Nonsense. Show one instance where I said I'm against democracy or against the constitutional.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Well, you want to pack the Senate with Democrats.

[Tim Pool]

I want to pack the Senate.

[Elad Eliyahu]

You want us to pack the Senate with Democrats? You want to add two states that are permanently up.

[Cenk Uygur]

No.

[Phil Labonte]

You have to Constitution the Supreme Court.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no.

[Elad Eliyahu]

He wants to add Senate seats. He wants to.

[Cenk Uygur]

I'm against backing the Supreme Court. I'm against it.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Your four power plays from Democrats to nominate our political. If D.C. and Puerto Rico are added, you're.

[Tim Pool]

You want to give statehood to Puerto Rico, is what you're saying. And D.C. or is that position you've had?

[Cenk Uygur]

So first of all, Puerto Rico has. If they want statehood and they vote for it and, and we go through a normal process like we did for Alaska and Hawaii. Sure. Puerto rico and Washington, D.C. haven't they voted for it?

[Libby Emmons]

Hasn't Puerto Rico voted to be a state?

[Cenk Uygur]

They did, finally.

[Libby Emmons]

Yes.

[Cenk Uygur]

So now that they did before when they didn't want it, what are we forcing them to become a state? No. But now they want it. They are part of America.

[Libby Emmons]

First Canada, Puerto Rico.

[Phil Labonte]

First Canada.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Maybe we could do Guam as well. But like how we added Republican and Democrat. I think Hawaii and Alaska were added at the same time.

[Libby Emmons]

That's how we ended up with West Virginia.

[Tim Pool]

I think I would agree with Cenk. Functionally, we can't look at Puerto Rico and say because of their politics, we're going to decide not to allow them state. Hood. D.C. i don't agree with. D.C. is supposed to be a federal jurisdiction for the purpose of being outside of state.

[Elad Eliyahu]

I'm referencing these specifically because there's a book written about this.

[Tim Pool]

Really?

[Elad Eliyahu]

There's a book written about this. And Democrats have said this is their way to get a power play by packing the Supreme Court by adding different states.

[Libby Emmons]

Makes sense because Guam voted. Guam voted more Republican than they had previously. So add both.

[Tim Pool]

Well, there one and one and not expand.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah, that's a fair argument.

[Cenk Uygur]

Like, so we should have a discussion about that. Right? So then you could say, hey, is Guam the same as Puerto Rico? Is it the same as D.C. these are good discussions. So, but like, just want, like if, like, if they said, oh, let's add Guam because it's going to be Republican, well, let's not add Puerto Rico. Well, that's not fair. Right. But if they say, let's add Puerto Rico, but we should consider Guam, you.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Understand why it's a power play, right? You understand why Republicans view it as a power play.

[Tim Pool]

Check. Okay, but let's talk about this constitutionally. I do not believe it's constitutional to say, say, oh, well, you're a territory. We would give you statehood. But your politics don't align with one group. So we can't.

[Elad Eliyahu]

If we start carving out D.C. we'll have carve outs in different states that want us to see from what it makes.

[Tim Pool]

It doesn't carve out D.C. d.C. Was established so that the federal government would not be pressured by states. When the Capitol was under the jurisdiction of Virginia and Maryland, the concern, or would it have been the concern was Maryland could apply taxes and other pressures forcing the federal government. And that pissed off the other states. So they said, said, let's carve out this space here from this river in a little diamond shape and say, that's federal jurisdiction only. So I understand we don't do statehood for the federal jurisdiction. It's federal only. But Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States with a large population. They vote for statehood. I don't think you can be like, oh, no, it benefits Democrats. That's not constitutional.

[Libby Emmons]

There's a great segment in the John Adams biography when he. Because he's the first president that ends up in D.C. and he goes into D.C. in this carriage, and it's all muddy and terrible, and he's just like, I want to be in Boston. And so really, it's. It's such a cool segment because, you know, D.C. is still disgusting and swampy.

[Tim Pool]

We gotta.

[Cenk Uygur]

We gotta really do with the Constitution. You have to follow its rules. So if you want to amend it, you gotta go through the amendment process, the whole process.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, we got a good one here. This is KMAX. McDonald says, Since Bernie is going to be Too old in 2028, would Cenk like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez to run in 2028? Would she be a candidate Cenk would support or any others like her?

[Cenk Uygur]

So I definitely want a populist left. So aoc, look, everybody's complicated. So she is part of the group that I started with, along with three other people who are wonderful folks. And she doesn't take corporate PAC money. She's really good on some issues, and I agree with her on the. On anything related to, you know, the donor money and all the other things that I care about. But she, she and I diverge on some of the culture war issues and some of the identity politics issues. So that's a normal disagreement within the left. But I would probably support an economic populist way more than I would support someone who's known more for, you know, social issues on the left.

[Tim Pool]

Anybody come to mind?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, sure. There's a lot of people who are like that. So first off, when you're talking politicians, Ro Khan.

[Tim Pool]

So I like him, disagree. But he seems to be a good dude.

[Libby Emmons]

I think he's pretty honest.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, he's very honest.

[Phil Labonte]

He seems reasonable. Like, he seems like he's at least willing to discuss things from a genuine position.

[Cenk Uygur]

So Ro comes on our show, even when he votes against what we wanted, and then we yell at each other almost like this. Okay. And then he comes back again and again, and he's willing to defend his position. We agree or disagree, right? And our audience respects the hell out of him because he's willing to come on and defend his position.

[Elad Eliyahu]

But isn't this one guy who accepts a ton of corporate money, too? I think he takes a lot of money from Big Tech. No, Rocana doesn't take. No.

[Cenk Uygur]

Ronna is the first guy, if I'm not mistaken, but certainly among the first who stopped taking corporate PAC money. What you're Talking about is individuals that give and they're, they might be executives in a Silicon Valley company because it's Silicon Valley that he represents.

[Elad Eliyahu]

According to Open Secrets, he took at least 170,000 from Google. I don't know if this is. No, that's from individuals. No, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting how that pans out, though.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. So. No, but that makes sense. Like if, you know, look, I. If Joe Manchin takes money from, you know, miners in West Virginia, I don't have a problem. If he takes money from a giant mining company and then he serves that mining company, I got a problem. Right.

[Tim Pool]

So I'm going to read this one because it's, it's, it's, it's like they're trying to insult you. But I'm just going to read it. I'm not. Your huckleberry says, I used to think Cenk was a bad guy. I now think he's a really good guy. Guy with severe mental illness. He got help. He could be a great help to our country.

[Cenk Uygur]

Well, I appreciate your brother. So. So at least I got good intent. I'll take a win. So. No, seriously, this is. That's. Actually, I'm glad you read that one because that's a very common thing that I get. They say, you know, you're not such a bad guy. And I, you know, I agree with you, I disagree with you. I get it. But you have tds, right? Trump Derangement Syndrome. Right. So let me, let me explain that. So, so Trump, when he does things and they take it out of context, I hate it. And I think that's Trump Derangement Syndrome. So, for example, he said bloodbath when he was talking about the auto industry. We come on the Young truth, soon we go. He did not say it in a physical way. He did not say it in a violent way. He said it in regards to the car industry. No question about it. Yeah. Everyone else goes, nice, you calling for blood in the streets and blah, blah, that's Trump derangement.

[Tim Pool]

I agree.

[Cenk Uygur]

Right. He goes to McDonald's and he does that photo op. I think it's a great photo op, right? So look, I'll bust him on, hey, he doesn't actually support higher minimum wage. He supports the National Restaurant association, yada, yada. I'll give you the substance of it. But as a photo op, it's a good photo op. And they look on there like he looked ridiculous. And I'm like, all right, you could do that. But I don't think he Looked ridiculous. I mean, and the height of Trump derangement syndrome is when he got shot at. Right? And then, number one, we got blue anon that comes out and goes, no, he didn't really get shot at. It's all conspiracy.

[Tim Pool]

He had a razor in his hand or something.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. So. And then. And number two is, no, he wasn't heroic, guys. He got shot at. He comes up and he goes, does this and he goes, fight, fight, fight. If that's not courage, I don't know what courage is. Right? So I, I called him courageous for that. And that is, I called him courageous for that. That at a moment where I desperately wanted him to lose the election. Okay, but, but we're honest. So we don't have Trump derangement syndrome. What we have is honest disagreements about Trump. But I would argue that's. And now I'll trigger a lot of people. I would argue that a lot of the right wing has Trump derangement syndrome in reverse. Like, they'll, they'll see something that he does that makes no sense. That is not a conservative position. That is not a right wing position. That is not a populist position. And they'll go, if Trump did it, I love it, bro.

[Tim Pool]

Remember covfefefe? We know what covfefefe was. Trump sausage fingered the phone and accidentally sent gibberish. But there were people genuinely been like, no, no, he's, he's, he's saying something. He's, he's.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, thank you.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, he isn't. It's sausage fingers. He tried to put the phone away. It's sent, and that's it.

[Cenk Uygur]

You know, let me just tell. I gotta say something super important here. What I just saw here is exactly what I'm talking about. That's what I'm going to tell the left wing. And I'm saying, look, guys, I think that if Trump does things that you guys don't agree with, and we might agree or disagree with you guys. Right? But if you guys don't agree, you are going to stand up to him. And they think I'm not.

[Tim Pool]

But here's the distinction, right? A show like this, for instance, we have Ian Crossland on the show periodically. I don't know if you met him, but he hated Trump the whole time. And he only voted for him because RFK Jr joined the transition team and is not gonna be part of the administration. And so that literally was it. Like, like, he was like, I'm not voting for him. And I was like, RFK junior's Like, yeah, so he like begrudgingly does it. We have, we have Luke Rutkowski come on this show and he ragged on Trump the whole time through this whole administration for foreign policy, drone strikes, commando raids, all of that stuff. We've had Dave Smith on the show. He's a friend of the show. And the.

[Cenk Uygur]

I like Dave Smith a lot.

[Tim Pool]

But the perception from the left is that we are like die hard MAGA cultists. So I will tell you this. You know, we heard, I mean, we have varying opinions, like Elad is the Bolton bro neocon we got. You can tell we get into heated arguments all the time in this foreign policy stuff, but we like having that contrast and that debate. And as I mentioned, Ian, but there are a lot of Trump supporters. I'll give you an example of the tiff I got into with these people. Joe Rogan says on his show several months ago, I think RFK Jr. Is the only one that makes sense. And these prominent high profile Trump supporters immediately hate Joe Rogan, Morgan and then Trump himself. Truth posts like, oh, he's gonna get booed when he goes to ufc. And I'm immediately like, first of all, Joe's my friend. And he, he did, he did such tremendous things. First of all, helping my career and taking care of us when we got sick. That dude is, he's one of the best people I know in terms of being a good person. So don't, don't smack talk my friends. I'll defend them. But more importantly, why are you declaring war on moderates? You're trying to win over, over. So I do think that Trump will probably do something awful and you're gonna see a percentage of his base. Just say it was 4D chess and it was on purpose. But we're fairly moderate and eclectic. We like him. But you know, when there's a. Trump had a commando raid in Yemen. Do you know the story, the eight year old girl who was killed?

[Cenk Uygur]

No, I'm not sure I do.

[Tim Pool]

Remind this stuff if you want to get my blood boiling. Talk about Obama in the drone strike on Abdul Rahman Al Awlaki. Are you familiar with.

[Cenk Uygur]

Oh, 100%.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, dude, I lose my mind every time that comes.

[Cenk Uygur]

I think Obama should have been arrested for that.

[Tim Pool]

I completely agree. And the story there is the Obama administration admitted they did it. They said they were targeting a different terrorist and oopsie, we blew up a civilian restaurant, a cafe in a country we're not at war with, and we killed a bunch of civilians, including an American. And I'm like, You admitted it. Charge and trial. Let's go. Donald Trump, one of the first things he does when he gets into office office is he signs off on a commando raid in Yemen. Now, the difference here is that no one's admitted to any direct wrongdoing, but the family involved say that an 8 year old girl was killed in that raid that was signed off on Trump's orders. My response there is I want an investigation, I want evidence. And if Donald Trump did sign off on this, he has criminal culpability for sending commandos into a country not at war with, likely at the best of Saudi Arabia, because we do weapons deals with them. And I want to know what happened, happened. So I look at these two and I say, fine, you want to be fair? I think they're both warranting criminal investigation for the death of civilians and war crimes. I got no problem saying. I say it every single time. There are going to be a lot of people on the right who are going to justify and defend anything Trump does, no matter what he does.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. And the same is true on the left. Like me saying that I thought Obama should have gotten arrested for that. Oh, my God. Absolute heresy. Number one heresy you could have. If I ever run for office, if anyone I'm aligned with runs for office, office. Mainstream media is going to smear the living crap out of all of us because you're going to say, oh my God, he went on a right wing show and he said, okay, so, but why do I say that? And this is the part that they'll cut out of the clip. Right. So he did a drone strike on an American citizen and he did not go through judicial authorization.

[Phil Labonte]

Yep.

[Cenk Uygur]

Okay. He. And so then Eric Holder said something absolutely outrageous.

[Phil Labonte]

Insane.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. He said, due process does not necessarily mean going through the judiciary. The executive executive branch can decide due process on their own. By the way, here we are being consistent. Right. I hated it when Trump talked about terminating the Constitution. And I hated it when Obama said due process is not going to a judiciary. That's exactly what due process is. If the executive branch gets to say, I went through a process, I checked with Bob, who works for me, and Bob, who works for me in the executive branch, told me I could murder any American citizen.

[Phil Labonte]

I like Eric, Eric Holder, that Barack Obama himself called him his wingman. Right.

[Tim Pool]

And I want to say this too, because I was wrong about this. Trump did say, I'd like to take the guns first and go through dup, give and go through due process later.

[Phil Labonte]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

So I had first looked into this and I saw a snippet of Trump saying something after the fact and I thought that was the original quote. Then I was corrected when we had a guest on the show from the National Gun. I forgot the organization's name that the Gun Rights association. And I looked into the video and it's Trump literally saying, now you've got these people with guns. I like to take the guns first and then go through the courts, go through due process later. And that's unconstitutional. And so I was wrong about that. And that is a wrong thing for Trump to have advocated for.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. And Allah blocky, they killed him. It's not even clear that he was a terrorist. He was a propagandist. Right? Yeah. Anwar All Oblaki.

[Tim Pool]

So this is the dad. And they killed his son.

[Cenk Uygur]

But then they killed his son.

[Phil Labonte]

They didn't.

[Cenk Uygur]

And in a different bombing, in a completely different place. But wait, they also killed his 8 year old daughter in a different bombing.

[Phil Labonte]

No, that was the gunfight. That was the gunfight.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Phil Labonte]

He took a bullet in a gunfight.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

And that was under trump.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Cenk Uygur]

So three different Al family members killed. All U.S. citizens killed in three different instances. Right, so, so I see what you're saying about the eight year old and right.

[Tim Pool]

That was when Trump came.

[Cenk Uygur]

So that is all extrajudicial. That is totally unconstitutional, totally illegal, still totally unacceptable.

[Phil Labonte]

So the, the two things. So that his teenage son, they allegedly say that he was not the target.

[Cenk Uygur]

And I don't believe that at all.

[Phil Labonte]

And the daughter that caught a bullet in the gunfight, that was, she was not actually targeted because they were, they were going, she was collateral damage. Now that, now, now you can say that, that it's unconscionable. You can say that it's still wrong. You can say that it's still, still doesn't, it doesn't matter. And, and I wouldn't argue strongly against it, but I just pointed that out for clarity.

[Cenk Uygur]

I see what you're saying. So that's a good point because they're not targeting a US citizen on purpose. Theoretically, at least based on their justification. Yes. Right. Now, just like the Wuhan lab, you killed three members of a same family in three different places at three different times and you're telling me it was a coincidence? I'm telling you my best guess, and this is just a guess, is that Al Awlaki was CIA that went rogue and the CIA was super embarrassed about it. It and thought, oh, what if, not only do we have to get rid of him, but what if his family members know that he was CIA and went rogue. So now that part is total speculation. I want to be clear about that. Okay, so I'm not saying that that's a fact, but it is a fact that they went extra judicial outside the Constitution. And by the way, that's part of why established media is so hypocritical and so unbearable. Because if Trump does it, they go nuts. And they should. And I agree. Right, right. But when Obama does it, they're like, no, that's fine.

[Tim Pool]

And they, well, let me add this. My speculation is Anwar Al Awlaki was a jihadi. They say he was a propagandist, he was an American citizen. And I think what was happening out of Syria, I could be wrong.

[Phil Labonte]

And I think they killed him in Yemen.

[Tim Pool]

Was he in Yemen? Are you sure you want to fact check while I'm talking? So possibly. See, I don't know. Here's what I think. I think they, they, for some reason, they wanted to go after him. I think they killed Abdulrahman, his son, as a statement to anybody who would oppose us, we will kill your children.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, he was killed in 2011 in Yemen.

[Tim Pool]

Strike. Yeah, but we're not at war with.

[Cenk Uygur]

We'Re speculating on that.

[Tim Pool]

Right, right, right.

[Cenk Uygur]

You have speculation. I have speculation. But, but the important part is what we talked about earlier. You can't go outside the Constitution. You can't go outside of duplicates.

[Tim Pool]

That's crazy. And you know, in the media, the media said Obama's only scandal was a tan suit.

[Phil Labonte]

That's infuriating. The fact that not on the fact that not only are they do they cover for him, but the fact that there is an extra judicial killing that was clearly outside of the Constitution, violated American citizens, constitutional rights, due process, and killed him. And the media won't even address it and they will cover for him. To say there was no scandals. It is infuriating.

[Cenk Uygur]

So back to right wing, left wing, populist establishment. But interestingly, that same media was super happy to work with Dick Cheney in pretending that problem for us. So wasn't that they're covering up for Republicans or Democrats. It was that they were covering up for the establishment.

[Tim Pool]

They were singing Dick Cheney's praises a couple months ago just to offer a.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Different opinion on Anwar Al Awlaki. He was allegedly a key organizer for Al Qaeda. And as far as I'm concerned, if you're an enemy of the United States, planning with terrorist organizations who have killed Americans before, then you're on a short list for getting murdered. And you should be.

[Cenk Uygur]

That's a terrible idea.

[Elad Eliyahu]

No, I think it's a great idea.

[Tim Pool]

There's a Constitution. The Constitution. You can do process it. Can't just hold on.

[Cenk Uygur]

Let me just say. But what if they said, and remember he's outside the country and we never hear from him, he's not interviewed, etc. What if you are outside the country and let's say a Democrat's in charge and they go, I think he's working with terrorists.

[Elad Eliyahu]

No. Do they have evidence that I'm working with terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda?

[Cenk Uygur]

They say I have evidence, but I'm not going to show you. It's just they did it all. I'm lucky. Yeah, right.

[Elad Eliyahu]

There's a little bit more evidence for his terrorist activity.

[Cenk Uygur]

That's why you got to go to the courts to show your evidence. I'm not going to take your word for it. I wouldn't take their word for it if they did it to you. And I wouldn't take their word for it if they do you have a.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Problem with the drone striking of Kasim Soleimani as well?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, I have a different problem with that. And what's the problem? There is you're trying to instigate a war with Iran. What do. Why are you doing that?

[Elad Eliyahu]

It seems Soleimani is responsible for the death of American service people in the Middle East.

[Cenk Uygur]

I mean, you're going to say that, right?

[Tim Pool]

But these are two totally different things. You're talking about active combat and there's fighting going on and whether we agree or disagree on a political and militaristic decision, there's a lot to break down. If we're talking about an American citizen is overseas and Obama says, I don't have to prove to the American people this person has constitutional rights. And I do think it's absurd in any capacity that the United States would bomb anybody with drone strikes without justification. Granted, we do have a constitution, a constitutional protection for American citizens that non citizens don't have in combat areas. Suffice it to say there's difficult realities and that is civilians get killed in these conflicts. That's why we don't like them, because they don't deserve to die. They should not die. And the United States does a lot of drone bombing that kills a lot of people. Barack Obama, when they started killing too many civilians and you know this, he said military age males are now enemy combatants. Some young man carrying a bucket of water and they blow him up and they were like, well, military age male. No, unacceptable.

[Cenk Uygur]

It creates more Enemies.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Cenk Uygur]

Which creates more wars that we got to pay for. Right. So, no. And by the way. And I'm going to trigger this fella again. But that's the Israeli strategy. Hey, they're male. Nah, they're terrorists.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Hey, guys, don't kill the terrorists. It'll make more terrorists. So just succumb to the. Whatever the terrorists want, you know.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, but nobody.

[Elad Eliyahu]

No, no, don't kill the. Don't kill the terrorists because then, you know, that'll make them angry and it'll.

[Tim Pool]

Make more over here.

[Elad Eliyahu]

So when. When October 7th happens. No, no, no, don't, don't attack. Don't take out Hamas.

[Tim Pool]

No.

[Cenk Uygur]

Iran is terrorist, guys. Go to war with Iran. Go to war with Iran.

[Tim Pool]

Make America. No, now it's Iran.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Now it's Iran.

[Libby Emmons]

Let's go back to super chat.

[Tim Pool]

Believe it or not. The uncensored show is coming up in seven minutes. All right, all right, here we go.

[Cenk Uygur]

Wars for Israel.

[Tim Pool]

All right, let's. Let's grab this one. Wukun says, Jen, good to see you caught the BS of the Democratic Party. Would like to see more of it. Cenk, what is something that frustrates you that Democrats do too much of?

[Cenk Uygur]

Oh, a lot. So this, you know, as we talked about earlier, the insistence on unity, which is not unity, it's compliance and obedience. So that's the number one problem that Democrats have. Now, David Pluff today enraged me because he said something right. But he said it at all the wrong times. He said, oh, you know what? Next time we should have a vigorous primary.

[Libby Emmons]

What?

[Cenk Uygur]

That's what we said.

[Libby Emmons]

That was the whole thing. Although according to Nancy Pelosi, they did have a vigorous primary after Joe Biden stepped out and Kamala Harris was just simply, simply the best candidate.

[Tim Pool]

Do you like RFK Jr?

[Cenk Uygur]

So I do as a person. Right. And so I know him a tiny bit. I knew him a tiny bit before he ran. I know since he ran. And so, and I like his environmental policies. And he doesn't get credit for two sets of policies that I absolutely loved and would rather have him be in charge of. One is housing. When he's talking about do not let the private equity firms buy residential homes, it's going to, it's going to destroy the housing market. It's already destroying the housing market. And they're going to drive the middle class into poverty and it's not going to allow us to create wealth, man. Wealth creation for the middle class. So I love his. If he was in charge of HUD, I'd be 100% in favor of it. Okay. And, and I like his, I love his anti corruption policy, which is, let's go for an amendment through the states to get money out of politics. I love it. Okay. Unfortunately, on vaccines we don't agree. Agree. Right.

[Tim Pool]

But, but if he won the primary, you'd vote for. If it was, if it was a Democratic nominee, it was him versus Trump. You'd vote RFK Jr. Oh, versus Trump.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. That's easy.

[Tim Pool]

And I reason I asked is because I think if they had a real primary, RFK Jr won. I think they Democratic side. No, you don't think he'd win.

[Cenk Uygur]

The reason he wouldn't have won is unfortunately. Look, there's good reasons to vote against RFK Jr too. All the things that we disagree on. Okay. But on top of that, oh my God, the mainstream media controls older Democratic voters.

[Tim Pool]

Sure.

[Cenk Uygur]

And they would have demagogued him too. Who? Like if they already did, but they, I mean, take what they did to him and multiply it by 200. If he had any chance of winning the Democratic primary, they'd never stand for it. I know, it happened to me, it happened to Bernie, it happened to everyone who challenges the establishment. And like I'm, I'm totally on the left. You know, we've gone through all the debates, et cetera, et cetera. Right. And when I ran for Congress, the New York Times, cnn, LA Times all painted me as a right winger. New York Times said I was anti Muslim and didn't point out any guy's from a Muslim family. Right. I'm atheist now. But his family's Muslim. Right. What the hell. Right.

[Tim Pool]

Well that proves it, actually. Yeah.

[Elad Eliyahu]

It sounds very anti Muslim of you.

[Tim Pool]

To leave the faith.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. And so while the radical fundamentalist Muslims would agree. Right, but that's, but that wasn't what the New York Times was saying. The New York Times was just lying about me. I brought on like we're having this conversation. I brought on David Duke to find out what's driving you? Why are you in favor of Trump? And so, and, and I, I called him.

[Tim Pool]

I attack you for it.

[Cenk Uygur]

Oh, I called him every name in the, in the book during the interview. Because, you know, if you get me worked up, hey, I'm, I'm gonna come for you.

[Phil Labonte]

You're kidding.

[Cenk Uygur]

And by the way, the number one thing I called him was anti Semitic. Why? Cuz whatever I asked him, he's like, the Jews are in charge, the Jews are on the bank. So he'd start naming Jewish bankers I start naming Irish bankers.

[Tim Pool]

We did that too.

[Elad Eliyahu]

But then you usually hit him with the Jewish donors after you're like, no, Marion Adel is why Trump is totally loyal to Israel.

[Cenk Uygur]

Right, okay, so every donor is battle except a Jewish donor.

[Elad Eliyahu]

No, no, no. All the donors are bad except for the ones who donate to left wing causes. And everybody I don't like is a grifter.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, no. I would get all money out of politics. All of it. Okay, so anyways, the New York Times then says, oh, Cenk agreed with David Duke that he's not racist.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, I remember this.

[Cenk Uygur]

What the. Like, other journalists were like, guys, you got carried away here. I know we like to smear people that are populous, but like, if you watch the interview, he did the exact opposite. So this is as brazen a lie as it gets. And they had to issue a retraction on that one. The whole thing's filled with lies. So on RFK Jr. Oh, you'd have had the dead bears and the whales and the brainworm and then multiply it by 200. They would have come up with everything in the world against them.

[Libby Emmons]

People that all politicians are impure and take donations and lie. I mean, they're politicians. Their entire purpose is to maintain power.

[Cenk Uygur]

And look, so RFK Jr. Had a particularly colorful life.

[Libby Emmons]

Oh, for sure. We all read about the bear.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. So that's a target rich environment to begin with. But normally what they do is needle in a haystack. Right. So you got. My whole career is as a left wing commentator, but they found one or two things. They could paint me as a right winger because the district I was running in was a Democratic district at that point. Point. So they say, oh, look, he criticized Obama. Which by the way, literally, again, New York Times said that. They didn't say that. I criticized him from a left wing perspective also.

[Libby Emmons]

Why can't you criticize the president?

[Cenk Uygur]

Exactly. I'm like, you're the New York Times and you're trying to paint me as a right winger because I criticized Obama. And you claim you're for freedom and journalism and freedom of the president because.

[Libby Emmons]

They wanted you to. They wanted you to do what you were told.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Libby Emmons]

They wanted you to toe the line.

[Cenk Uygur]

Exactly. So they. And they'll do it for anyone. And look, so Gates and Hagseth have significant sexual scandals. Right. And so did Madison. So that's what I'm getting to. And Madison Cawthorn. Right. So now. But wait a minute, let's distinguish. So if Matt Gaetz is all he's doing is drugs and infidelity. I don't care at all. I don't agree with Ann Coulter. Adultery is not my business. That's their business. Okay? If he crossed the line and was with a 17 year old and you could prove it, okay, then I'm out. Okay, I don't want it. And that's too far. But wait a minute now let's look at Madison Cawthorn. So apparently they had pictures of him dressed up in funny ways and with girls and whatever, all this stuff, but they never released it until he criticized the Republican establishment.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Cenk Uygur]

And then all of a sudden here comes all these pictures, right? And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't agree with Madison Cawthorn on the policies, but what do these pictures have anything to do with anything? Anything. Like so he was at a party and he dressed up like this or that and he was with girls. Why does he have to be with guys? Like what, what is this? I don't understand this. So like you have to use your mind. And with Hexith on the first allegations, I was like, look, man, on publicly available stuff, it's 50, 50, I can't tell, Right? But now you're seeing a lot of his people on Fox that worked with him, they're like a bad guy, right? So okay, now that tilts the skills. But my point is, is every time it's sex, right? Because sex is the thing that grabs everybody's attention. I'll give you a great example from the left, Elliot Spitzer. Okay, good. I thought he was great. Sheriff of Wall Street. A friend of mine, we worked at Current TV together and he's going after all the robber barons, he's going after all the Wall street crooks and all of a sudden sex scandal, right? And in that case there's a whole movie about it, Client Number nine on Netflix. And where the right wing billionaires in that case, right, they're the Wall street guys, et cetera. They go, yeah, we targeted them. We got a private investigator, we followed him until we found something that he did wrong. And then what did mainstream media do? Because they love corporations and they love the establishment. They were like, Elliot Spitzer, guilty of sex. Sex. I say, right? And that's what they say every time.

[Tim Pool]

All right, we're going to go to the members only uncensored show. So smash that like button, share the show with everyone, know, head over to timcast.com right now, click join us. That uncensored show will be popping up in about a minute or so. You don't want to miss it because I'm sure it'll be as fun or more than it's already been. You can follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast. Jack, do you want to shout anything out?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah. Check out Young Turks live 6 to 8pm every day. Check out our entire [e-mail] and get involved. Like, last thing I'll say is on the website on TYT.com we've got a populist plan bank. It's six policies that I think almost all of us agree on. Left wing, populist, right wing, populist, anti war, money out of politics, paid family leave, give moms 12 weeks rest after they have a baby, et cetera. Right? So what I'm saying is, if you like those policies, forget the labels. If a Republican does it, I'm voting for the Republican. If a Democrat does it, I'm voting for the Democrat. Okay? But give me the things that we want as a country that we all agree on. I'm not talking about the things we don't agree on. I'm talking about core easy stuff that we agree on. Sign this pledge. I'm voting for whoever gives us this and I don't give a damn about their labels. So check that out on tyt dot Right on Libby.

[Libby Emmons]

I'm Libby Ammons with the post Millennial. You could check us out every [e-mail] also humanevents.com and if you want to hear from me every day, you can go to. You can what? You can subscribe to my newsletter, which is thepostmillennial.com/libby is, I think how you sign up for it. And I'm @libbyemmons on X.

[Elad Eliyahu]

Thanks for tuning in everybody. My name is Alad Eliyahu. You can find me on Instagram at Barely Informed with a lot and Twitter is at all Yahoo. Phil, what's up?

[Phil Labonte]

I am Phil that remains on Twix where you can subscribe to my page. I am Phil that remains official on Instagram. The band is called all that Remains. You can check out four new videos that came out this past year. Forever Cold let you go, no tomorrow and Divine. You can check them out on YouTube, Amazon Music, Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora and Deezer. And don't forget the left lane is for crime.

[Tim Pool]

We will see you all [e-mail] in about one minute. Don't miss it. We'll see you there. Thanks for hanging out.