Democrats FURIOUS Over Elon Musk Becoming TRILLIONAIRE w/ Brian Shapiro & Benjamin Michael

Summary

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Timcast IRL Podcast Summary

Episode: Democrats FURIOUS Over Elon Musk Becoming TRILLIONAIRE w/ Brian Shapiro & Benjamin Michael
Date: June 13, 2026
Host: Tim Pool
Guests: Brian Shapiro, Benjamin Michael, Phil (That Remains), Ian Cross

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Main Theme & Purpose

The episode is anchored around Elon Musk’s breakthrough as the world’s first paper trillionaire following SpaceX’s historic IPO. The panel dives into the political, economic, and cultural ramifications of this news, engaging in heated debates about wealth, inequality, immigration, censorship, election integrity, and American identity. The tone is unapologetically combative, with strong ideological clashes, especially between Brian Shapiro and guest Benjamin Michael, while Tim Pool steers the conversation through a series of contentious but topical issues.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Elon Musk’s Trillionaire Status & SpaceX IPO

[00:54–08:30]

• Musk's Wealth: Discussion kicks off with SpaceX’s IPO and Musk becoming the world’s first trillionaire. Musk’s wealth up by 28% on IPO launch.
• Democratic Reaction: Cites prominent Democrats—Elizabeth Warren, Robert Reich—calling for wealth taxes and denouncing Musk as a “con man.”
  • "Elon Musk just became the world's first Trillionaire. The typical American household would have to work more than 11 million years to make Elon Musk's level of wealth. We need a wealth tax." – Tim Pool, quoting Warren [06:30]
• Cultural Impact: Tim Pool frames Musk’s rise as an example of American entrepreneurial archetype.
• Technological Innovation: Phil (That Remains) underscores the broad technological impact and job creation—highlighting SpaceX’s practical achievements like reusable rockets and Starlink.
  • "Elon Musk is on the cutting edge. He's the first person that thought reusable rockets could be done and accomplished it." – Phil [08:30]

2. Should Musk Do More for Americans? Debating Character vs. Achievement

[11:15–13:56]

• Critique of Elon Musk: Brian Shapiro argues that despite Musk’s achievements, he should be judged by character and how much he’s doing for the average American, referencing unfulfilled “Doge checks.”
  • "What is Elon Musk doing with all that money and with all those inventions going to space? What is he doing to help everyday Americans?" – Brian Shapiro [17:59]
• Pushback: Phil counters that Musk’s personal issues are irrelevant compared to the scale of his innovation:
  • "I am not interested. I am not. You're not interested? No one is interested in your moralizing." – Phil [12:08]
• Fact Check: Ian clarifies that widely-claimed “Doge checks” were never officially promised by Musk [14:10].

3. Wealth, Taxes, and the Role of Government

[15:05–18:21]

• Spending & Deficit: Panel debates government spending versus promises of savings and the actual impact.
• Perspective on Wealth Taxes: Elizabeth Warren’s proposal for wealth taxes is called out, with skepticism from most guests, but Brian stresses the gaps between rich and average Americans.

4. Free Speech, Social Media, and Algorithmic Manipulation

[18:54–29:48]

• Musk & Free Speech: Tim claims Musk’s Twitter (X) purchase was more about harvesting valuable data for AI than a true free speech mission.
  • "He wanted access to their data stream... to build an AI. That's what he bought it for." – Tim Pool [18:54]
• Algorithmic Issues: All speakers agree algorithms polarize and incentivize outrage and misinformation.
  • "We are getting algorithmically fed and programmed by all these platforms." – Tim Pool [25:47]
• Community Notes Feature: Discussion on how X's moderation tools work, with Brian arguing for harsher penalties for serial misinformation spreaders.

5. Election Integrity, Ballot Laws, and the 2020 Election Debate

[31:35–52:44]

• Defining "Stolen": Argument over whether the 2020 election was “stolen,” with a detailed breakdown from Tim on the legal changes and challenges in states like Pennsylvania and California.
  • "Legality does not define morality. If you make cheating legal, you're still cheating." – Tim Pool [38:00]
• California Ballot Laws: Tim illustrates perceived voter fraud vulnerabilities by discussing California’s mail-in ballot and lax signature standards ("picture of Kirby" as a legal signature).
  • "Do you think that is a fair election to allow people to hand date ballots after the election and submit them with pictures of Kirby?" – Tim Pool [48:25]
• Electoral College vs. Popular Vote:
  • Brian advocates for abolishing the Electoral College, calling it undemocratic.
  • Tim defends the College as necessary in a big, federated country to avoid “mob rule.”
    • "If we didn’t have it, this country would have broken apart a long time ago. Because you ain't taking my water." – Tim Pool [57:31]

6. Immigration, Demographics, and America’s Identity

[61:10–79:21]

• Illegal Immigrants & Voting: Breakdown of how non-citizens influence congressional apportionment through the census, not through illegal voting.
  • "They are giving electoral college votes to Democrats illicitly." – Tim Pool [68:57]
• ICE at Polling Places: Brian argues ICE presence would intimidate legal voters in immigrant families; the panel pushes back, seeing no problem if people are legal.
• Debanking as Deportation Policy: Benjamin Michael floats aggressive proposals—debanking illegals as a primary tool, severe penalties for employers and landlords.
  • "Every illegal should be debanked. That's the first thing.” – Benjamin Michael [70:16]
• Cutting Legal Immigration: Intense argument over closing the border, tightening visa rules, and denying welfare to certain generations of immigrants.
• Culture and Religion: Benjamin advocates for America as a fundamentally Christian nation, suggesting incompatibility with Islamic immigration.
  • "America is a Christian nation... Islam is not compatible." – Benjamin Michael [99:42]
  • "You have to abide by the Christian culture of the country that you're in." – Benjamin Michael [99:49]

7. Transgender Issues & the Right’s Culture War

[121:14–126:13]

• Trans as Mental Illness: Some guests argue for maintaining “gender dysphoria” as a mental disorder for treatment access.
  • "Trans people want it to be a mental disorder." – Tim Pool [122:25]
• Matt Walsh & Online Vitriol: Brian accuses right-wing figures like Matt Walsh of obsessive, hateful rhetoric against trans people and minorities; Tim responds by equating it to joking and vitriol found across the spectrum.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step." – Tim Pool, on SpaceX's humble beginnings [07:33]
• "I am not interested in your moralizing." – Phil [12:08]
• "He made it low latency and affordable as well. Now the regular person can afford it." – Phil (on Starlink) [09:51]
• "That would be like a children's raffle for hot dogs." – Tim Pool on California’s ballot acceptance rules [47:38]
• "Do you think people should be allowed to submit a ballot seven days after an election, hand-dated before the election with a picture of Kirby as their signature?" – Tim Pool [48:01]
• "America is a Christian nation." – Benjamin Michael [99:42]
• "If you don't have borders that are actually upheld, then you don't have a country." – Benjamin Michael [88:19]
• "What do you think about black people, bro?" – Brian Shapiro, to Benjamin Michael, launching an awkward and revealing exchange [131:43]
• "I think black people are created in the image of God. And I think that they disproportionately commit violent crime. That's just so." – Benjamin Michael [131:48]
• "We are, we are over time. So much more to come..." – Tim Pool, wrapping up an explosive episode [133:37]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:54] – Musk Trillionaire news, SpaceX IPO breakdown
• [06:30] – Democrat reactions, wealth tax debate
• [08:30] – SpaceX innovation, job creation, and Starlink
• [13:00] – Doge checks & Musk’s unfulfilled promises debate
• [18:54] – Social media, reason for Musk buying Twitter/X
• [26:57] – Community notes, misinformation, consequences
• [31:35] – 2020 election: “rigged or not,” legal/constitutional issues
• [38:00] – Ballot law controversy ("picture of Kirby" as signature)
• [47:31] – Electoral law hypotheticals, "fairness" in voting
• [53:44] – Electoral College vs. Popular Vote
• [61:10] – Illegal immigrants, census, and congressional districts
• [70:16] – Immigration: debanking and strict deportation plans
• [99:42] – National identity, Christianity, and religion in the U.S.
• [121:14] – Trans issues: mental health, insurance, and right-wing vitriol
• [131:43] – Race and crime: difficult, pointed exchange
• [133:37] – Outro, upcoming plans, and plugs

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is marked by sharp ideological clash, freely-mixed humor, personal jibes, and no shortage of pointed language—the panel alternates between wonky policy details and culturally-loaded rants. Tim Pool’s independent lens keeps the discussion circling back to constitutional principles, procedural nuances, and “what’s actually legal vs. moral.” Culture war anxieties and dissatisfaction with America’s political class are omnipresent, though the guests disagree vigorously about who or what’s to blame—and what should be done.

The discussion is lively, at times chaotic, and thoroughly in tune with the angry, divided American political landscape of 2026.

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Transcript

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[Benjamin Michael]

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[Tim Pool]

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[Benjamin Michael]

I'm addicted.

[Tim Pool]

To start your free [e-mail]. Elon Musk is now the world's first trillionaire with a SpaceX IPO. Absolutely incredible showing. It's actually up 30% from the initial price that they were offering which is nuts because they were pricing it at nearly 100x revenue. So it's 135 a share. It's currently as of recording about 173 per share. Massive. And yes, there are many liberals and Democrats that are angry. They are. There are people posting Elon who said Elon Musk is the world's first trillionaire. Let's make sure he's the last. Robert Wright called him a con man with a Ponzi scheme or something to the effect Elizabeth Warren is like we got to tax these people. They are just upset that he is launching this company the way he is. But we're gonna go through the beginnings of SpaceX where he's at now and we're talking about what it means to be a trillionaire. We'll talk about that. Plus aliens. The Trump admins dumped their third tranche of UFO files and apparently according to New York Post they're close to figuring out what they really are.

[Brian Shapiro]

Uh huh.

[Tim Pool]

Like I believe that at the same time there's a conspiracy theory around the release of this new movie from Steven Spielberg which coincides the release of these, these UFO files called disclosure day. And people think it's predictive programming. Whatever. Let's talk about it my friends and we'll, we'll, we'll have fun with it. Before we get started, we got a great sponsor for you. It Is Tax Network usa. My friends, do you back taxes or have unfilled unfiled tax returns? Have you filed every year but still keep owing? Did you retire and suddenly get hit with a tax bill you did not expect? Maybe you pulled money from your 401k or IRA early. Now the IRS wants their share. Whatever your tax issue is how it started, the outcome is the same. Your balance is not going down. Penalties are growing, interest compounds, and many of you are about to owe again for this upcoming tax year. With no plan in place, stop what you are doing and call Tax Network usa. The IRS is not waiting. The IRS is enforcing collections through wage garnishments, bank levies and property seizures. They can even file for you without your consent. This is where Tax Network USA comes in. With over 15 years in the business, there hasn't been a tax case they haven't seen or resolved. They specialize in tax controversies and helps taxpayers nationwide get back on track by resolving back taxes and unfound returns once and for all. Whether you owe $10,000 or $10 million. Their team has resolved over $1 billion in tax debt. They can do the same for you. But you gotta call now. They're offering a free investigation. Call with the irs. After that investigation, they put a clear case plan in place to resolve your tax problem. Gets you back on track. This is about using your legal rights. Take control before the government sets the terms for you. Don't wait for another IRS letter or a frozen bank account. Call 866-686-1535. That's 866-686-1535 or visit tnusa.com tim or click the link below. Don't forget to join us, my [e-mail] get in the Discord community. We got tens of thousands of people hanging out every single day and they want to be friends with you. Smash that like button. Share the show with everyone. Joining us tonight to talk about this and so much more, we got Benjamin Michael.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, how's it going? Happy to be on the show here. I'm an orthodox Christian apologist. I do political commentary as well. Mainly topics around Israel and immigration. Those are the main issues that I like to focus on. So yeah, happy to be here to talk with you guys.

[Tim Pool]

You're also very. You're a very out of focus person. Oh, you, you've come back into focus change. There's a camera. There's a camera issue.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay, good. Now everyone back in focus.

[Tim Pool]

You're back. You're back. We were trying to. We call it needling. We're needling you guys. That's why Brian's back.

[Brian Shapiro]

What's up, everybody? I'm Brian Shabir. I'm a huge MAGA supporter. I'm all in, all in. Donald Trump, ultra conservative, and I'm just looking to get Laura Loomer's phone numbers.

[Tim Pool]

There's a lot of people, they don't know who you are, and they're going, oh, I like this guy. Sounds like he'll be pretty good. And then like 10 minutes later and be like, I will kill him.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, I think that's already happened.

[Tim Pool]

The rest of the boys is here.

[Ian Cross]

Everybody happy to be in it, I feel. What's going on, man?

[Phil That Remains]

What's up? Let's get this over with, Brian.

[Tim Pool]

Let's do it. We got the story from NBC News. One trillion by any other name. A trillion in words and graphs. SpaceX announced their initial public offering. Right now. I'm going to get that number for you in real time. We're going to refresh on this one. SpaceX, Elon Musk's company, is currently trading at $173.02, up 28% from their initial price of 135. Even Tesla is up. This makes Elon Musk. Oh, no, it went down a little bit. It makes Elon Musk the world's first paper trillionaire. Based on the stock value, right now, he is worth over a trillion dollars. And that was an estimate made on the share price of 135per share, which now 172. There is an estimate that he is going to crack 1.4 trillion by next year. So he's already at, I think, based on These numbers, like 1.1 or some ridiculous number. And so, of course, here's a trillion dollars. It's a pyramid. Larger, you know, I guess, by volume larger than the Statue of Liberty itself. That's. That's absolutely amazing. 1.77 trillion stacked in $100 bills compared to the Statue of Liberty. Elon Musk, 1.7 billion. A Tesla Model X and a SpaceX Starship. I guess that little, that, that stack right there of hundreds is a billion dollars. Isn't that crazy?

[Brian Shapiro]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

So remember, remember the Dark Knight with Joker? And he jumps off that big pile of cash. Assuming those are hundreds, that was like a billion dollars. I don't think people understand the scale of money. So that's it. And, well, what can we expect? We got Elizabeth Warren. You know, we love her. She says, Elon Musk just became the world's first Trillionaire. The. The typical American household would have to work more than 11 million years to make Elon Musk's level of wealth. We need a wealth tax. We got Robert Reich. You know you love him. He calls it a galactic ripoff. Tomorrow's IPO of SpaceX could turn out to be the universe's largest Ponzi scheme. And you and I are paying part of the price, whether we like it or not, which is dumb. And there's actually a lot of people. I might pull these up in a second. I kind of wanted to avoid pulling them up, but. Death threats, Great. A lot of death threats for Elon. But you know what? He's the richest guy in the world, so I'm not super surprised by that. I want to show you this to kick things off. This is an image of OG Space X. Look at them in this little plastic tent with a bunch of. What do they call it, Phil?

[Phil That Remains]

It's a rud. Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly.

[Tim Pool]

That's right. An explosion of an early rocket prototype. And it's actually pretty amazing to see. My, my response to this was, my friends, the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step. So when Elon Musk and the team, when they, when they bought this little space, when they started putting together rockets, it's hard to imagine that this ragtag bunch, don't get me wrong, Elon was very wealthy back then, but it's hard to imagine it would become the world's largest ipo, dominate the space exploration and technologies and make it to this point. So outside of anything political on this, I just want to say to all of you, whatever you think of Elon, the money, all of that, just look at where he started on this project and think about where you're starting on your project right now. You too should be imagining that from your garage with your scraps, you might be standing looking over the New York Stock Exchange with a trillion dollar IPO one day in the future, if you keep working hard. That being said, who else is excited about this?

[Phil That Remains]

Look, the SpaceX IPO has created 4400 millionaires other than Elon Musk, 400 of which made over $100 million, right? So it's absolutely a good thing for the whole country, right? SpaceX is the only game in town. When it gets, when it, when it comes to getting cargo to space, they, they are, they're constantly sending satellites into, into orbit because of the, the Falcon 9, right? Like even the Falcon Heavy, which is the only thing that can Carry big, actually large objects into space. They're constantly relaunching that. Elon Musk is on the cutting edge of reusable rockets. He's the first person that thought that it could be done. And not only thought that it could be done, accomplished it. The advancements that we're gonna see in rocket technology because of Elon Musk and because of his vision is gonna be an incredible thing for the world. He literally installed the, the Internet in the sky. Well, like the, the.

[Tim Pool]

Well, well, we did have satellite Internet. He put it in low earth orbit.

[Phil That Remains]

Yes. But he made it for everybody. It wasn't just something where like a.

[Tim Pool]

Was for everybody.

[Phil That Remains]

You had satellite. They had.

[Tim Pool]

We, we've had satellite Internet at the old studio for going way back before Starlink. He made it, he made it low latency.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Phil That Remains]

And he made it affordable as well. Like now the regular person can afford it. The, the.

[Tim Pool]

There's something called the bgan, a broadband global area network which has been in use for 20 years. And they very much do look like Starlink. They're little white squares with a stand. You. And you prop them up and you would, you would get back in the day, like in, in 2011, I think get like 500 kilobits of kilobytes up and down. Not really enough for anything. Actually probably even less than that. Maybe 100. Enough for doing reports and sending photographs. It would take, it would take a few minutes in a picture. With Starlink, what he did was the. So there's like Hughes Net and things like that, which we have. You can get 20 megabits up and down, but it's, it's high latency. You can't game on it. And there's a delay because the satellites are in high orbit. The issue with low, A low, low orbit satellites, they have to go very, very, very fast, which is very expensive. And they got to be replaced a lot. So nobody wanted to do it. He, he figured out how to make it economically feasible with his team and everyone at SpaceX. And now when we're flying on planes, you have 100 megabit up and down because of Starlink.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's incredible.

[Phil That Remains]

And it's worth. Worth saying, at least anyone that's angry at Elon Musk.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Phil That Remains]

Elon Musk doing his gay. Elon doing these incredible things has no negative effect on the average person.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah. But the reason why people like me and others, I have, you know, little respect for somebody like Elon Musk.

[Tim Pool]

Little respect. So here's.

[Phil That Remains]

Why is that, is that I Just

[Benjamin Michael]

want to be clear.

[Phil That Remains]

You have friends with Trump, little respect for Elon Musk.

[Brian Shapiro]

So obviously he's made a lot of money for himself, and he started with nothing in that aspect of it. I certainly have respect for him, but I think maybe take some of that money, being the richest man in the world, and maybe pay us all those $5,000 doge checks that you promised. Maybe be a better father.

[Phil That Remains]

No.

[Brian Shapiro]

Oh, shut up, dude.

[Tim Pool]

I have.

[Phil That Remains]

I have little respect. You're talking about his. It's such a clown show. You're just like, well, Elon Musk is

[Tim Pool]

a bad guy and he should. I don't like the way that he Have a laugh.

[Ian Cross]

Kids.

[Phil That Remains]

No one cares what your opinion of how Elon Musk raises his kids are.

[Brian Shapiro]

Some people care.

[Phil That Remains]

No, they don't.

[Brian Shapiro]

You don't.

[Phil That Remains]

No, they don't. No one cares.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well, if you think that a father can be a complete piece of and all you care about is how much money somebody.

[Phil That Remains]

I am not interested. I am not.

[Brian Shapiro]

You're not interested?

[Phil That Remains]

No one is interested in your moralizing. No one is interested.

[Brian Shapiro]

No one is interested in your moralizing.

[Phil That Remains]

Oh, well, he's a bad guy and

[Brian Shapiro]

I don't like him. And there's all this stuff.

[Phil That Remains]

All you do is spew garbage. Narrative of that from the left.

[Tim Pool]

It is so such.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so now it's my turn. All you do is wear the Donald Trump knee pads 24 7.

[Tim Pool]

We've already turned to Donald Trump for Donald Trump.

[Brian Shapiro]

You're turning red.

[Tim Pool]

You literally already. No, no, no. Hold on already. Guys, Guys already turned to Donald Trump. This is not fair. He's cucking for Elon.

[Phil That Remains]

I mean, anybody.

[Brian Shapiro]

One trick.

[Phil That Remains]

One trick pony.

[Brian Shapiro]

Elon Musk doesn't work for Donald Trump.

[Tim Pool]

You guys are both good. You guys are. Okay, hold on, hold on.

[Ian Cross]

Guys are both making valid points. I mean, you can criticize someone's ethics and criticize their business.

[Brian Shapiro]

You don't want to talk because you're a cock.

[Tim Pool]

Of course. I reject the. Elon should give his money away to people.

[Brian Shapiro]

I didn't say give it away. He made a promise.

[Phil That Remains]

He said that he.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on. He made a promise to the American people. He talked about wasteful spending. And in that promise, he said, everyone is going to get a $5,000 check from Doge. It was a failure. Admit that it was a failure. I fucked up. It was a failure. And just then maybe we can move on. They wanted. You would never move on.

[Tim Pool]

It's not. It's not zero sum.

[Brian Shapiro]

He promised. Did he not promise everybody $5,000.

[Tim Pool]

But, but you're like that he's a failure. I'm like, well he's not. He failed $5,000 in this aspect.

[Brian Shapiro]

He is. I didn't.

[Phil That Remains]

So Elon Musk should take his personal property, sell it liquidated so that way he can write 5000. Hold on, let me finish. You're, you're saying that Elon Musk should take his personal property, right? Liquidate it so that way he has the cash so he can write $5,000 checks to the American people pay. Because he wasn't able to get Doge to save enough government money to give to the American people.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's his failure.

[Phil That Remains]

It's his personal.

[Brian Shapiro]

Was it, was Doge a failure? Yes.

[Phil That Remains]

That's the, that's the argument you're making.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm asking you.

[Tim Pool]

That's the.

[Phil That Remains]

No, I don't think it was, but it's not.

[Brian Shapiro]

How much money, how much fraud did they.

[Phil That Remains]

It's the argument that you're making. And don't change, don't change the subject. Yes you are, because I'm asking you a question. Asking you a question.

[Benjamin Michael]

Live fact check over.

[Ian Cross]

Did not officially promise 5,000 checks. He expressed interest in a proposal originated by DOGE advisor James Fishback, but clarified the distribution depends entirely on Congressional.

[Brian Shapiro]

Entire administration promised five. Donald Trump said it multiple times. Elon Musk spoke about it.

[Benjamin Michael]

To be fair, we have been promised stimulus checks how many times?

[Brian Shapiro]

And we haven't received that, which is wrong as well.

[Tim Pool]

I'm still waiting, I'm still waiting for

[Phil That Remains]

Brian to answer if Elon Musk should liquidate his property and write personal checks because. Brian, Brian, can you answer that?

[Tim Pool]

It's 100.

[Brian Shapiro]

I will gladly.

[Tim Pool]

Real quick. It's 110 billion in, in savings.

[Brian Shapiro]

And what did they say they were going to find? What were the promises that were.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I was wrong. That was in year one. They were aiming for 2 trillion but only ended up with 215 in savings. I would call that a success. I mean like, you know, it's, it's, it's the, it's the big ask is the big sale. Right? I, I think we're happy that we, we cut, we, we, we, we stopped spending in these areas.

[Phil That Remains]

So should, should Elon muscle.

[Tim Pool]

It's not too true, but I'll take what I can get.

[Brian Shapiro]

So let me just respond to what Tim said.

[Phil That Remains]

So still dodging my question?

[Brian Shapiro]

No, I'll answer your question, but I'm just responding to what Tim said first. $2 trillion. They got what, maybe 5, 5%, 15. About 5% or 10%. 5 to 10% of what they.

[Tim Pool]

215 billion, right. It's like 17% of 2 trillion, right?

[Ian Cross]

15%.

[Benjamin Michael]

So?

[Tim Pool]

Well, it's, it's.

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[Phil That Remains]

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[Tim Pool]

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[Benjamin Michael]

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[Tim Pool]

be 10 point, 10.5.

[Brian Shapiro]

Around 10%.

[Tim Pool]

10.552.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, somewhere around 10%. They got 10% of what they said they were or claimed they were going to find. I think that's a failure. And when you look at all the wasteful spending and you look at the deficit right now and you look at this war and everything else combined in the wasteful spending, I would say no, they're, they're not, they're not saving money. No, they're still wasteful.

[Phil That Remains]

They saved money.

[Tim Pool]

They didn't stop all of it.

[Phil That Remains]

They got rid of 290 to 300,000 federal jobs. That's a good thing because the government is, the bureaucracy is all is bloated. Now I'll answer your question. Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Phil That Remains]

Should he write. Should he write the checks?

[Brian Shapiro]

So should he sell his property?

[Tim Pool]

Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, I don't think he's doing that. A part of.

[Phil That Remains]

Should he.

[Brian Shapiro]

Is that the argument you're making a part of? What I said was a little bit facetious. But here's what I will say. I don't care necessarily about some of the stuff and the, the inventions. Listen, does he make great cars, the Internet and all this other stuff that we're talking about? Okay, great space. Most. Most people, the average ordinary person in this country. It is not affecting. Okay, right now, what we're talking about, what I care about everyday Americans, the suffering that they are going through. And what is Elon Musk doing with all that money and with all those inventions going to space? What is he doing to help everyday Americans? That's what's more important.

[Tim Pool]

We got two issues here. Right. And it feels to me like you're trying to find a reason to be met at Elon. If you want to separate like Doge was bad promises are made. We can. We could, if we chose, we could say, sure, let's go back to the building spaceships and being a trillionaire. These are separate issues. Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

I just think there are probably more important things as a society. I disagree in this.

[Tim Pool]

We can be talking about than space on Earth.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, well, that's my personal.

[Benjamin Michael]

One of the problems is like, Elon's presented himself as like this America first individual, as sort of like a political figure in recent years. So I think if. If we're looking at Elon as, as some sort of know, technological titan, I think that's different than the way he's presented himself lately, which is as a political figure. Is he someone who cares about the American, you know, success. Right. The success of the everyday American, like he presents himself, or is he just a technological titan that's, you know, bringing in all these new.

[Brian Shapiro]

Because I think, well, you can do

[Benjamin Michael]

both of those things.

[Tim Pool]

I'll tell you what I think he was. There was a personal slighting by the Democrats and also a, I guess a professional hindrance under, under the Democratic administrations. The reason why I think Elon went to Trump is because first there was this meeting. I can't remember exactly. Maybe you guys know the details. They did like an electric car summit and Biden brought a bunch of people in and didn't invite Elon. And I think Elon was slighted by that with Tesla being like the preeminent electric car company. But they also launched investigations against him. And then all of a sudden, Elon is like, okay, I'm for Trump and free speech now. But I do want to stress one point. Elon Musk, in my opinion, and I think I'm gonna say this first. SpaceX, I believe, is the most important company on the planet. But I want to say this about Elon. He did not buy Twitter because he cared about free speech. Maybe that was a component of it. The narrative that we get is the Babylon Bee made a joke, they got suspended. He was a fan of the Babylon Bee. He said, this is ridiculous. You can't run your business this way. Went to investors and said, they're giving money away. By shutting down jokes and speeches, we can turn it around. That is not, in my opinion, based on the facts, what actually happened. What I think happened is that Elon saw the Babylon beat, was a fan, went to investors and said, I want to buy Twitter to get access to their data stream so I can build an artificial intelligence with real time data sets coming in from 300 million users. And they said, okay, that's a moneymaker. And then he said, oh, they did something with like banning a guy too. Well, we don't want to ban people because we want those data sets for the, you know, so the marketing we're going to play is we're going to unban people. But really what we want is just maximizing user base for the data stream for our new xai, which we can then use to create content, win the race. It'll be brilliant. Why else would all of these companies offer up billions of dollars to buy a dying social media platform? Because Elon said, this is the data set you need for AI. It is real time text, video and photo. That's what he bought it for. He's integrating that now into SpaceX. I wouldn't be surprised. I, I, they might not do a merger with Tesla because Tesla's so extremely valuable.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, you talked about the cars, though. Were you comfortable in the White House when Donald Trump was promoting his vehicles and they'd hold a press conference?

[Tim Pool]

Absolutely.

[Brian Shapiro]

You were okay with that? Promoting other people's companies? Okay, please.

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Brian Shapiro]

Job of the president to do that.

[Phil That Remains]

Well, we, we promoting American companies is, yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

Somebody that's in the administrative, somebody that's technically not in the administration. But is that going out, going out to other, to China, promoting American companies? Well, again, I think corruption is a big part of this administration. And I believe Elon Musk on a plane with Donald Trump heading to China or Jared Kushner. I think, again, I think it's, it's beyond inappropriate.

[Tim Pool]

And I, you know what I'd give you is bailing out the auto industry is questionable. Sitting down and being like, they're great cars, you should buy them.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm like, okay, I certainly agree with that.

[Phil That Remains]

But were you against the United States bailing out gm?

[Tim Pool]

Oh, no. Guys, guys, we got a problem.

[Phil That Remains]

What's up?

[Tim Pool]

During the bailout of the Ford, of Ford, the automotive industry. Barack Obama did the same thing, which

[Brian Shapiro]

I had a problem with back then.

[Tim Pool]

And it was a good thing. I don't like the bailouts, but I have no problem with the President being like these are great products and promoting. You buy them.

[Phil That Remains]

Promoting. Americans have a problem with him blowing it a bad thing.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, depends what the bailout is. It depends what the company is. It depends the circumstance around it. But I can tell you right now that Donald Trump and Elon Musk going in a plane to China Biden did it. Benefiting Elon Musk's best interest in the interest of his investors.

[Phil That Remains]

I kind of get feeling that you don't like Donald Trump.

[Tim Pool]

Woodrow Wilson did it. Warren.

[Ian Cross]

What concerned me was when they bought 10% of Intel.

[Phil That Remains]

Woodrow Wilson is the worst.

[Benjamin Michael]

Literally the worst president American.

[Phil That Remains]

Absolutely.

[Ian Cross]

They're talking about buying who, Who.

[Benjamin Michael]

Woodrow Wilson is the worst.

[Tim Pool]

I, I think you even agree, right?

[Brian Shapiro]

I won't disagree with you.

[Benjamin Michael]

It's actually hilarious how a lot of he is.

[Brian Shapiro]

I thought you guys were going to say Jimmy Carter though.

[Phil That Remains]

No.

[Ian Cross]

Woodrow is probably the most fascist president with we've ever had. Yeah, miserable fascist. He was the closest to fascism.

[Benjamin Michael]

You mean like totalitarian? Because that's different.

[Ian Cross]

Well, he sold us. I think banking industry means like at

[Tim Pool]

that time when fascism was actually popular in America.

[Ian Cross]

He was definitely.

[Benjamin Michael]

Well, he, I mean he got us into World War I. The main, like gave us the Federal

[Tim Pool]

War I. Nazism and fascism were actually popular ideas Pre World War II. And yeah, you asked me, Nazism and fascism were actually very popular in America Pre World War II, I think. Was it Prescott Bush?

[Benjamin Michael]

Oh, yes, that's true.

[Tim Pool]

Was that, was it an American Nazi?

[Brian Shapiro]

Listen, if we're just talking about the business side of things, that's one thing. I do think ethics are also important. When you ask me about a person, you say, Brian, nobody cares about your feelings. I care about the person. Is he a family man? Is he a decent human being? And then we can talk about the business ethics and, and all that other stuff combined. But does that. Ashley St. Clair might have something to say?

[Tim Pool]

Does that, does his personal life discredit his work?

[Brian Shapiro]

Your personal life doesn't always necessarily do that and I wouldn't make that point. But I will say, what does he do? Does he put his businesses first and the bottom line and his investors first over his own kids?

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well, that's the problem. I think that is a problem.

[Tim Pool]

I know. That's why, that's why even conservatives have ragged on him quite a bit.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's my point. Phil.

[Tim Pool]

He's got like 30 kids with like.

[Brian Shapiro]

You're making my point for me now. You can.

[Tim Pool]

I'm agreeing with you.

[Brian Shapiro]

I know, I. I know you're agreeing with me. I'm trying to explain to Phil that it's not always just about personal.

[Phil That Remains]

I don't care.

[Brian Shapiro]

I know you don't care, but.

[Phil That Remains]

So you can stop trying to explain to me.

[Brian Shapiro]

But you're a father. You're probably a good. Right?

[Phil That Remains]

I mean, I don't. It depends on if you don't like my politics or not.

[Brian Shapiro]

This has nothing to do with Elon Musk politics. Let me be very clear, okay? He has spread his seed all over the country.

[Tim Pool]

Let me.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me explain to you, please. Give me 30 seconds.

[Phil That Remains]

No, okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

Elon Musk has already even publicly talked about this. Okay? He spreads his seed all over the country as these women cite all these NDAs. And he's not a father to a lot of these kids. You're not like that. It shouldn't matter what your. I can disagree with your politics, Phil, but I'm sure you're. I would assume you're a good father, okay? I would never attack you and say, oh, you're a bad father because you're a trump cuck. No, I wouldn't say that. I would say the latter part of it, but nothing to do with your kids.

[Tim Pool]

You understand the difference? Let me address this.

[Phil That Remains]

I do. I do believe you.

[Tim Pool]

Okay. Right, right, right, right. Guys, I wanna address this. I think it is absolutely fair and good to criticize Elon Musk for his personal issues. I think SpaceX is the most important company on the planet.

[Phil That Remains]

Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay. Those are two different things. I can, I can. I can respect that.

[Tim Pool]

Now, Elon. Elon, as a business leader has proven himself time and time again not only effectively running these companies. I mean, he really did turn Twitter around. Twitter, like X, is now very successful.

[Phil That Remains]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

For all of its issues. He turned it into a money making machine.

[Brian Shapiro]

Space Xeros, though.

[Tim Pool]

What?

[Brian Shapiro]

Space X is dangerous.

[Benjamin Michael]

Why?

[Tim Pool]

I think blue sky and threads are

[Brian Shapiro]

dangerous and like social media in general is dangerous.

[Tim Pool]

Agreed.

[Benjamin Michael]

Dangerous.

[Tim Pool]

Well, first I agree it is.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, yeah.

[Benjamin Michael]

How?

[Brian Shapiro]

Go ahead, Tim. I'll let you take.

[Tim Pool]

Well, I look at it a couple of ways. Is X is not uniquely dangerous in the social media space.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay. Okay.

[Tim Pool]

But we are getting. We are getting algorithmically fed and programmed by all of these platforms. There's been a ton of people complaining about the algorithm on X. Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

On the right.

[Benjamin Michael]

Horrible.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Ian Cross]

Change your Own algorithm.

[Tim Pool]

What, what bothers me it, what to do. I used to be able, I used to have, I used to have followers, right? And I could post a non political joke about something silly. Zero traction these days because the way the algorithm is designed to amplify, it's always really simple. Do people react to this more than. Than, than that? Back in the day I have, I have 2.6 million followers. So let's say before the for you tab, a couple years ago, I'm at like 2.3 million or whatever. I post a picture of like a moose yelling at a rabbit and it would get like 300 retweets, 300 comments. And people would be laughing and making jokes, being like, this is a silly thing to post. I could post a Star Trek meme. When I post things that are not politics, they die instantly. If I post Democrats are evil, 10 million views.

[Brian Shapiro]

And I'll even take it a step further in that I'll give the New Orleans terrorist attack as an example. Right. You had almost everybody on the far right saying that it was an undocumented immigrant and it was Joe Biden open border policies, the Laura Loomers of the world and others spreading just blatant misinformation. This was a, a guy that was born in the United States of America and it's all about clicks and it's all about.

[Benjamin Michael]

That's what the community notes feature is for and it does a pretty good job.

[Tim Pool]

Let's talk about. He was born in America, but were his parents.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, but he was born in America and they were saying he came into this country illegally and that's fair. I want to talk about.

[Benjamin Michael]

Wait, did his parents come in illegally?

[Brian Shapiro]

I want to talk about the community note, but I want to.

[Tim Pool]

And put a pin in it real quick. Yeah, I just want to say the legitimate criticism was that this is the after effect of mass migration. People born in this country. This is what Sweden is dealing with. They're dealing with people from Somalia who had kids and those kids are now stateless. Yeah, they were in Sweden, but they're not.

[Brian Shapiro]

I get that point, but the point that I'm trying to make, and I think you understand is that there are a lot of right wing grifters on social media lying, lying and saying that he was an undocumented immigrant. I want to go to your community note statement. What good does it do when you have these right wing accounts that get community noted almost every day? Let's say they have 100 community notes in like a month and they don't get suspended for it. There should be something put in place. And I understand X is a private business, I get that. But what good is a community note when someone gets community noted 100 times and they don't. Accounts don't get suspended. Nothing happens.

[Tim Pool]

When you get community noted, it d ranks you and strips you of monetization.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, that. I understand that.

[Benjamin Michael]

And that actually just happened to a left wing account.

[Brian Shapiro]

You should be suspended if you get community noted like 20 times in a week. I think you should get.

[Tim Pool]

Because there's weaponized spreading misinformation. There's weaponized community.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, exactly. Because you have people that are basically sending their army of followers to community.

[Brian Shapiro]

Don't say something that's not true.

[Benjamin Michael]

No, you can get something Community noted. You can. This is actually a problem right now in the community note feature because you can get something community noted just by having enough people report it as such.

[Brian Shapiro]

But.

[Tim Pool]

And they don't. They don't file one. They flag needs and then Grok will AI generate a false community note?

[Brian Shapiro]

I think in my personal opinion, when you make accusations about people and when you say things that are blatantly, factually wrong, it could be a medical stuff, it could be about a terrorist attack. And you do this time and time again and you get community noted and your account doesn't get suspended for a week or a month or whatever. I find that problematic because it's all about views, right? It's all about even what Tim just said about monetization. Even though that that might be true, you're still gaining more followers and you're gaining more popularity by saying things that are blatantly false.

[Benjamin Michael]

And 90%, 90% of these factual errors, there's a lot of nuance. Like the example you just gave. Okay, so yeah, maybe he was not directly an illegal immigrant, but his parents were. It's like, okay, I mean, it's still. The logic still applies. So I would say 90% of these. Like, there is some nuance at play here. And it's like the principle is still true even if it's not true.

[Brian Shapiro]

What about the Paul Pelosi hammer attack, right? We had so many people.

[Benjamin Michael]

I'm not saying there aren't examples. Listen, there's a leftist account by the name of Junior who had all these like fake AI videos which about Israel. And by the way, I don't like Israel, but he had all these fake also wrong. Yeah, exactly. And he, he got demonetized and then he started begging Twitter to get his monetization back. Look like that happens. Right. It happens on both sides, but I feel like they do a pretty good job because, like I said, he got disciplined and then now he's been pretty good about it.

[Brian Shapiro]

I feel like there are far more conspiracy theories out there on the right these days than.

[Benjamin Michael]

Well, but, like, define a conspiracy theory because, I mean, at this point I'm labeled a conspiracy theorist for talking about great replacement when it's just objectively true. So, like, what is a conspiracy theory anymore?

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[Brian Shapiro]

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[Brian Shapiro]

The 2020 election was stolen.

[Tim Pool]

Defined stolen.

[Brian Shapiro]

Widespread proof and evidence of widespread voter fraud that can prove that the election was stolen and rigged by the Democrats.

[Tim Pool]

So. So let's break that one down. The the principal issue is Donald Trump has been relatively vague a lot. Yeah, it's true. When it comes to it was rigged. It was obvious when he gets asked, like when he got asked about California, he says, you know what we're talking. So he's not giving any strong claims. The why. So for me, for instance, I have always said the widespread fraud narrative is wrong. I said Joe Biden got 81 million votes because of ballot harvesting, which is legal. Democrat activists were knocking on doors and collecting mail in votes across the country. That's why they couldn't replicate it in 2024 people were at home.

[Brian Shapiro]

So you agree that's not cheating?

[Tim Pool]

So, well. Well, so define cheating. Do we think it's against the law?

[Phil That Remains]

There you go.

[Tim Pool]

Agreed. It is not. And as I've long maintained. Now here's what gets funny, there was a. I think a Stanford group that put out a claim that I was one of the largest spreaders amplifiers, they called it of election fraud narratives. There's. I've never. I've never promoted those. Ah, but you know what amplified means? It means I discussed it so well.

[Brian Shapiro]

That would mean I'm guilty of that as well because. Indeed.

[Tim Pool]

But I wonder why they didn't write it about you. Because the media is fake and they lie and this is what they do information. So my point is, on the question of 2020, conspiracy theories or otherwise, there was a legitimate argument that the Trump administration actually followed through on, which is twofold. The first is that states like Pennsylvania, Georgia, there were a couple others, unconstitutionally changed the rules of the elections during COVID The Constitution provides that the legislative branch of a state determines how the elections are held. In Pennsylvania, the judiciary decided. In Georgia, the executive decided. And Texas filed a lawsuit to the Supreme Court, which the Supreme Court refused to hear. This I warned about was going to create a mess. When a state files a lawsuit, it goes under original jurisdiction, meaning the Supreme Court is supposed to take it up. Only Thomas and Alito said, we will hear this case. The rest refused to do it, creating contention, which I believe contributed to January6, not the sole reason.

[Brian Shapiro]

Cash Patel promised four months ago that there were arrests coming and they were on the way. Donald Trump constantly, every single day, besides saying that the election was stolen and rigged by the Democrats. Constantly, every single day, going to see all the evidence, you're going to see all the proof. Now he's talking about California that you just mentioned. He has one of his own attorneys that's on it. So far in this investigation, they've only found one evidence of fraud. If people want to make elections better, for example, in California, I think we all could agree that there are things that could change in California to make the elections faster, have them count votes faster, so on and so forth. But Donald Trump, Donald Trump is saying today, yesterday and the day before that the Democrats are rigging the elections in California. He says, then show me and provide me evidence that could be writing by

[Phil That Remains]

codifying these things in law.

[Tim Pool]

I'm going to.

[Phil That Remains]

That's what. That's why you, you bring up the law. Right. But they've codified things like then change the laws.

[Tim Pool]

Cheating is still cheating. If you say it's fair, it's still

[Brian Shapiro]

just because guess what? Change the laws.

[Phil That Remains]

Yeah, Just.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, okay. They're still cheating.

[Phil That Remains]

That's the whole point of this.

[Brian Shapiro]

You want the 2000, you avoid.

[Phil That Remains]

You avoid talking about the actual issues because you say, well, it's the law. And if you don't like the law,

[Brian Shapiro]

change what I just said. I said if you want to change the laws and if you think there are ways that can make it, make the elections fairer, safer, faster, I'm all for that conversation.

[Phil That Remains]

Change the law.

[Tim Pool]

Legality doesn't define morality.

[Brian Shapiro]

Who won the 2020 election? Free and fair?

[Phil That Remains]

It was. Joe Biden did free and fair.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Phil That Remains]

Well, okay, so. No, Helen, there was a piece written in Time magazine called the Shadow Campaign to save the 2020 election.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yes.

[Phil That Remains]

And they outlined exactly what they did.

[Tim Pool]

Right. And they called it a conspiracy.

[Phil That Remains]

They called it a conspiracy. Those. Those processes that were done under the table right. In the national election are what is actually codified into law in California. And the point is, once you codify it into law, people such as yourself can say, well, you know, it's the law. So, of course they didn't cheat. They didn't break the law. They're not cheating.

[Tim Pool]

They're.

[Phil That Remains]

It's the law.

[Brian Shapiro]

So it's. It's.

[Phil That Remains]

It's the law. But you earlier were making the remark that morality and the law are different things, and you have. You have problems with people that are doing things immoral.

[Tim Pool]

We.

[Brian Shapiro]

So your opinion. You don't like the laws set forth in California right now, and you think it's immoral? That's your argument.

[Phil That Remains]

The point that I'm making is when you codify things that go again, that will change the way that votes are. Are.

[Brian Shapiro]

Are. We were in a global pandemic, and there were a lot of people during that time in 2020 that weren't able to vote the way they normally. I know you don't care, but most of the country does. The bottom line is, every single day, Donald Trump says that the election was rigged and stolen. He's the only president in America.

[Tim Pool]

Those are opinion statements.

[Phil That Remains]

Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

Wait, wait.

[Benjamin Michael]

Every single day he says it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Every single day he talks about the election.

[Benjamin Michael]

But this is a good example, though. It's a great example. Like, obviously, that is an exaggeration that would be considered a lie, what you just said.

[Phil That Remains]

Not every.

[Benjamin Michael]

Every single day. You're telling me every single day.

[Brian Shapiro]

We can go to his press conferences and when he speaks to the media, perhaps cheating. Okay. Perhaps. Okay. Every. Every time he talks to the media, it appears that he's upset. You would agree that he's obsessed about the 2020 election. He talks about it on a regular.

[Benjamin Michael]

I'm just holding you to your client

[Tim Pool]

like Listen, there's no, there's no reason to debate this. Trump talks about the election all the time. Right. Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

And he lost.

[Tim Pool]

Cheating. Here's your chance. Here's your cheating. You know, this is Benjamin. That's a legal signature on a ballot in California.

[Brian Shapiro]

We talked about this yesterday.

[Tim Pool]

That's cheating. Yeah. Telling people that they can draw a picture of Kirby that doesn't need to match the other drawing means they have just said signatures don't matter anymore. They claim to have voter signature verification, but then they tell you that if you doodle Kirby and then someone else doodles Kirby. But it's the same. It's just like a signature. Supposed to work this way. When I sign my name, it's got a unique bend and curve and arc, and you can look at them and go, these look like the same person. What they're saying here is as long as it's the character of Kirby, even if it's clearly a different drawing of him, that is a legal signature in California. Legality does not define morality.

[Benjamin Michael]

Cheating.

[Tim Pool]

If you, if you make cheating legal, you're still cheating.

[Brian Shapiro]

Donald Trump's own attorneys are on this. They're conducting a full investigation. If they don't find anything.

[Tim Pool]

We already found it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, I understand you're showing this, you know, signature verification. Donald Trump's own attorneys have been on this. If they.

[Phil That Remains]

And don't find anything, that's perfectly fine. But the point that we're making is they aren't going to find anything that is illegal because things like this have been codified into law.

[Brian Shapiro]

Was the 2020 election rigged in.

[Phil That Remains]

How many times do I have said Joe Biden. One question.

[Brian Shapiro]

You said Joe Biden won, which I appreciate, obviously.

[Phil That Remains]

How many times do you want me to answer the same question?

[Brian Shapiro]

Was it rigged?

[Phil That Remains]

My opinion is ballot harvesting should be illegal. Okay. I don't think that you should be able to go. You shouldn't do mail in ballots. I don't care about COVID So it was legal. So during COVID it was not rigged.

[Brian Shapiro]

Throwing curve.

[Phil That Remains]

Yes, Brian, whatever you're going to say.

[Ian Cross]

Yes.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay. Yes.

[Phil That Remains]

You should not be mailing out ballots.

[Brian Shapiro]

So what should be supposed to do during COVID when they.

[Phil That Remains]

Then we have a lower number of people voting. Yeah, that's.

[Tim Pool]

It's actually, it's actually really simple. The Constitution of Pennsylvania forbade universal mail in voting. So when they decided they would do it anyway. It's actually a really interesting, really interesting case because the GOP cut a deal with the Democratic Party that they would eliminate down ballot voting in Pennsylvania, you could go into a ballot and click Democrat and it would all Democrat. The Republicans in the state were like, if we get rid of this, it'll benefit us in some races. The Democrats said, why would we come together with you on this law? We want a deal. And the Republicans said, how about you get universal mail in voting, but we eliminate electronic down ballot voting or down ballot voting on paper ballots. The Democrats said deal. When they came. When the legislature of Pennsylvania came to pass this law, they hit a roadblock in that it violates the Constitution of Pennsylvania in that mail in voting can only exist in certain criteria, absentee pertaining to like military or otherwise. So instead of engaging in the constitutional process to amend the Constitution, they stopped and said, oh, we're in trouble guys. We can't pass this law. The Constitution is barring us. They initially tried the first processes, put in a new. You have to put in like three newspapers. The announcement to the public that you're attempting to amend the Constitution, then there has to be a referendum on it, which means they couldn't do the deal. It would have to go to the general election referendum to the, to the state population. Then if they approve it the next election they could vote on whether they wanted to change the Constitution. So to cut the deal through, they just went in the back room, shook hands, said, let's just do it, get sued later and see what happens. When they got sued later in the state, the judiciary said, you're too late, it's moot. This wouldn't change the results. So Texas filed a lawsuit to the federal government citing original jurisdiction for Pennsylvania violating its Constitution. The argument being we are, all of the states are participating in a free and fair election together amongst each other for who will be in charge of our federal government. We all have a voice in this. However, they are in violation of the federal constitutional rules and their own state constitution. They are not playing fair so they can get a free vote for the candidate they want to rule over us. Thomas and Alito said this question must be answered. Do the states, because it wasn't just Pennsylvania, it was Georgia. And I think Michigan and Wisconsin have the authority to change the rules of their constitution in violation. I'm sorry, of their elections in violation of the Constitution. And do the judiciary and the executives of those state have those rights as well? The reasonable conclusion based on the US Constitution is they do not have that. But we've never had that question answered. To simply say that was a free and fair election ignores the fact that there's an unresolved Supreme Court level lawsuit challenging what is overtly unconstitutional in those states. They are. But. So this is where the challenge comes in. These are legal interpretations and the game being played on the left and the right the whole time is I will do it now and you can sue me later. But let me point this out too. From 20991, the California government on elections, it actually says if the voter has dated the vote by mail ballot identification envelope, it constitutes a dated envelope in California citing section of the election, California election code section 3020. So long as a ballot is received seven days after election day and they have hand dated it proving that date, it counts towards the election with a signature of Kirby. This is not an election at all. I'm sorry, in no reality can you call an election to say, hey, we're all going to come together and vote. Everybody put your ballots forward for what we want. What we want for lunch. Don't worry though. We have a week to get pictures of Kirby on ballots that were hand dated to prove it that they were here the whole time. That's not an election.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, again, there are legal avenues that Donald Trump and his administration are trying to prove that. You have an open.

[Tim Pool]

I got. I gotta pause. There's nothing to prove. I proved it. It's proven.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, then why have his attorneys not come forward and gone public when conservatives are stupid. Well, then he needs to hire some better attorneys then. Well, he needs.

[Tim Pool]

We need a better president.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, I agree with that as well.

[Benjamin Michael]

I also want to point out, I also want to point out this was your example of a conspiracy theory that should cause someone to lose their platform over. So are you saying that like Tim should lose his platform because he's pushing this information.

[Brian Shapiro]

If you, while I was talking about terrorist attacks, for example, when I asked

[Benjamin Michael]

you for examples of conspiracy theories, this was your example.

[Brian Shapiro]

If you say that the 2020, which he has not said, but if you say that the 2020 election was rigged, stolen and the Democrats cheated and. And that's what you're saying.

[Tim Pool]

Democrats.

[Brian Shapiro]

Widespread voter fraud is the word that I used. Which we'd have to prove.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay, saying that, so should he be.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not formed over this. I've never said fraud because I'm talking about the fraud is illegality.

[Brian Shapiro]

I said widespread voter fraud was the word that was used. You have to prove widespread voter fraud to prove that there was enough of that fraud to overturn.

[Benjamin Michael]

This was my whole point that got us to, you know, this direction was the nuance behind these things that you're saying are blatant lies. It's like well there's clearly a lot of truth and it can be demonstrated. I think you're saying we should be de platforming people over this.

[Brian Shapiro]

I didn't say necessarily de platform I

[Benjamin Michael]

never used but that was the implication

[Brian Shapiro]

because I got a question.

[Tim Pool]

I got a question. Lose their account if.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, I didn't say that.

[Tim Pool]

I got a question for you.

[Brian Shapiro]

I said there should be some suspensions and there should be some accountability if you're. That's the terminology that I was so

[Tim Pool]

with redistricting right now Inside Elections has Republicans at one seat away in the polls from securing the House majority. Actually I should pull this one up because this one is is interesting. So I have a question for you but I first want everyone to see the House 2026 map. The reason why I actually don't like the default map they use is because they're actually bringing in they say if

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[Tim Pool]

I think when you're diagnosed with cancer you crave a semblance of normalcy and control. And so work allowed me to be me. So I think it's really important that companies stay flexible. Cancer in a diagnosis can be all consuming but it doesn't have to be.

[Brian Shapiro]

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[Tim Pool]

odds alongside polling so if we go

[Brian Shapiro]

with Sabato I saw the poly market odds. I don't know what your thoughts on that. You know you're a gambler. You can bet on that stuff.

[Tim Pool]

Well look we got Sabato's Crystal ball has Republicans at 213 by the polls. To Democrats two of six. Cook Political Report has Republicans at 212. To Democrats 205 Inside Elections has Republicans. Now okay went down to 215 to Democrats 206 based on the polling. Republicans are I think by the by the prediction markets either they're projected to either hold the House and the Senate or just the Senate. There is a, there is a plurality in the betting markets about 40% that believes Democrats will sweep which makes no sense because Taking the Senate makes no sense because they'd have to flip a Republican seat in the scenario that Republicans take the majority and then they pass a law saying that in order to vote you need to praise Jesus. And then Democrats all refuse to praise Jesus. And so when they go to the polling location before they're let in, they say, do you praise Jesus? They go, no, I don't. They go, then you can't come in and vote. Would that be a fair election?

[Brian Shapiro]

No, not necessarily.

[Tim Pool]

Not though. It's the law. Well, that's a law. Then it's fine. Right?

[Brian Shapiro]

What I believe is that if you want things to change in this case we're talking about elections, then you have to go through the proper process to do that.

[Tim Pool]

I asked if it was a fair election to make people profess faith in Jesus before they can vote.

[Brian Shapiro]

Oh, no, of course not. That's insane.

[Tim Pool]

Why not? If the law is passed, it's fair.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, obviously there are laws that are passed that people aren't going to agree.

[Tim Pool]

Like Kirby as a signature, hand dated dates. I have a. And seven days after the election.

[Brian Shapiro]

I have a way to rectify elections.

[Tim Pool]

Days after the election, you can write a date on a ballot and put a picture of Kirby and that's a vote.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, obviously.

[Tim Pool]

What is this, like a children's raffle for hot dogs?

[Brian Shapiro]

There are obviously, as I've said to start this conversation, there are things that they're doing in California that I don't agree with. Cheating need to improve. But when you make the case that Democrats are rigging it and they're cheating and elections are stolen, unfortunately in this country, you have to be able to prove that.

[Phil That Remains]

We've articulated.

[Tim Pool]

Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question.

[Brian Shapiro]

Question.

[Tim Pool]

If you went to your average person on the street, men on the street, and said, do you think people should be allowed to submit a ballot seven days after an election, hand dated before the election with a picture of Kirby as their signature? I don't think. Do you think they would say yes?

[Brian Shapiro]

I don't think. No, I don't think that's.

[Tim Pool]

Why is it legal?

[Brian Shapiro]

I don't. Well, again, you're going to have to talk to the lawmakers in California about that because they've allowed it.

[Tim Pool]

Think it should be legal?

[Brian Shapiro]

I think they should probably change some laws. Sure.

[Tim Pool]

You think that is a fair election to allow people to hand date bouts after the election and submit them with pictures of Kirby?

[Brian Shapiro]

Fair is an interesting word because, you know, are you saying, well, wait a second, is this fair? Or are you saying Democrats cheated and it was stolen?

[Tim Pool]

I'm asking you if you might not be fair, but that does fair in an election to come seven days after the election with a hand dated ballot with a signature that is a cartoon character, is that fair?

[Brian Shapiro]

How do we know whether that's a Republican or a Democrat?

[Tim Pool]

I'm asking if it's fair in general. Do you think the average person who votes knows that people are submitting about seven days after the election with pictures of cartoon characters on them?

[Brian Shapiro]

There's a lot of things that people, the average American citizen don't know. So I would. But my point is probably not.

[Tim Pool]

If you go to the average person and ask them how does an election operate, they're going to say we have an election day where everybody comes, they cast their ballot and then we say to them, actually, you're wrong. In California, after the election, people can fill out a ballot as long as they hand date it for the election.

[Brian Shapiro]

Here's what I wouldn't have a problem with. If the Trump administration today held a press conference, let's just say, and one of their attorneys said, hey, we need to change some things, here's why. And they presented it in a way that you are, and they said, hey, we need to pass some laws in California, we need things to change. Here's why we don't think this is fair and moving forward for the country, for the state of California, we need to do this. That would be one thing. But that's not what they're doing.

[Tim Pool]

I get it, I get it. Let me ask you, let me ask

[Brian Shapiro]

you, you see my point.

[Tim Pool]

I understand you're saying there's a legal process that's happening, but let me ask you, if the Supreme Court ruled that no state will be allowed to do mail in voting and that all ballots must be delivered on election day and submitted on election day, would that be fair?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, everyone would have to abide by the same rules. So of course I would say that's fair. I wouldn't agree with it. Right. That's not why you're asking me. Well, for a lot of different reasons,

[Tim Pool]

you think people should be allowed to turn in ballots after the election?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, there's a lot of different reasons. There's exceptions to the rule, there's people that might have medical procedures done and,

[Tim Pool]

but absentee is different from university.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand that, but. But if we're talking about 2020 or we're talking about now when it comes to balloting.

[Tim Pool]

So let's get very specific. Yeah, Supreme Court says The structure by which we have the absentee ballot system shall remain. That is in certain circumstances codified by law. People in the military suffering ailments or there's was it bereavement travel will be able to submit for an absentee ballot. Those shall count. Universal mail in votes that are hand delivered, whether requested or not, shall be deemed unconstitutional. Ballots outside of the absentee system must be delivered and received on election day. Is that fair?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, it would be fair because everybody would have to abide by the same rules. But here's why. And here's probably where we disagree. I think we should make it as a country as easy as possible for people to be able to vote. Nope.

[Tim Pool]

And I know that include after the election.

[Brian Shapiro]

Again, are we.

[Benjamin Michael]

Are you talking.

[Tim Pool]

Last question.

[Brian Shapiro]

What about exceptions like medical procedures?

[Tim Pool]

These aren't exceptions.

[Brian Shapiro]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

We've already talked about absentee where I

[Brian Shapiro]

wouldn't have a. I wouldn't necessarily. Unless we're talking about, you know, military and exceptions to it.

[Tim Pool]

They always had to register for that and necessary.

[Brian Shapiro]

Listen, I'm okay with voter ID too. Okay. I'm not one of those people that just thinks anybody that can just show up without an ID or if we're talking about a week after the elections, I would be. I probably wouldn't be opposed to that. Banning it or no, just to saying, okay, you have to do it by this date and that's it, it's done. I probably wouldn't be opposed to.

[Tim Pool]

That means Spencer Pratt would have won.

[Brian Shapiro]

I just. And I think we agree on this also. I just don't like the way Donald Trump is approach.

[Tim Pool]

Sure, sure, sure. Trump is Trump. Aside from this. Because I can.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

You're making an argument as character, as demeanor, the things he's saying. Fine. Outside of that, I'm talking about the structure of these elections.

[Brian Shapiro]

I don't have a problem with what you're saying.

[Tim Pool]

If we said we. You cannot count bouts after election day. Spencer Pratt advances to the general there. It actually means like Cisneros in 2018 doesn't make. It doesn't advance. And the Republicans hold that.

[Brian Shapiro]

And guess what? Democrats and Republicans. Perhaps you're right. Democrats and Republicans need to be able to come to the table, which by the way, they're not really able to do on any topic these days and

[Tim Pool]

say, hey, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why.

[Brian Shapiro]

You got to be able. You got to be able to reason. I agree with you that California is a mess. Okay. It's part of the reason why I would rather See someone else run for. Run for president other than Gavin Newsom. I'd like to see somebody else that would be a front runner. California is a mess. They have their issues. I understand that. I think you have to go through the right legal process in order to change the laws that are on the books.

[Tim Pool]

I think. I think. I think the reason why the Trump administration is not going to do these things is because Watson v. RNC is poised to be ruled upon in the next week or two, which I believe the only conclusion is, as I described, the Supreme Court will have to rule that you cannot have universal mail in voting and you cannot. Like, they're going to void the entirety of California's elections outright. So the question is, and this is the Republican strategy that is on purpose. Republicans sued in Mississippi, intentionally arguing the law in Mississippi allowing for the counting of ballots after Election Day is unconstitutional. They did it in Mississippi because it means that the Mississippi solicitor is going to throw the fight.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

That then when the Supreme Court rules in favor of the plaintiff, California will be constrained.

[Brian Shapiro]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

So the ruling cannot simply be. You can't count bouts after election.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me ask you a question, Tim. And this is going to, you know, the elections in general, I've always felt that there should not be an Electoral College. I've always felt that it should be popular vote.

[Phil That Remains]

That's terrible.

[Tim Pool]

Well, that should not be.

[Brian Shapiro]

Why? Tell me why one vote in Maine should not mean as much as another vote or shouldn't mean as much. I'm glad you asked.

[Tim Pool]

So the Great Lakes Coalition is a really great example. Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, etc. Ontario is a part of this as well, which creates an international barrier. Arizona tried filing a lawsuit to get access to Great Lakes water because they're an arid state. And I believe they get their water principally from the Colorado River. They couldn't do it because a combination of factors. The Electoral College is one, but the Great Lakes Coalition, which included a foreign country, blocked them from doing it. This creates an interesting example in California, where as a single state, they don't have an electoral system. We saw the inversion of this in the drought in 2015. Tulare county ran out of water. They had surface water, but there's a problem. Tulare county had only 300,000 people. So the poor migrant farm workers, their wells ran dry because the cities, which are dense and populous, voted to take away the water from the poor people. The idea with the Electoral College was how do we stop New York at the time, because California wasn't around from voting away the rights of Illinois or from these other states. We need to find a way to balance out these rights. This was a contentious issue because a lot of people certainly said it should just be the people vote. And they said, here's the problem. We enter a new state into the union. And they say, I won't join because there's 3 million people in New York. We're going to vote to steal our stuff. And they said, how about we then weigh this? Which means you'll get a vote for president based on the population, but also the state. This means that Rhode island, which, which only has one congressional seat, still gets two votes because states admitted for this reason need to have a power balance. That was the point of the Electoral College. For every member of Congress, Senate or House, you will get one vote. So Wyoming has three, Rhode island has three. The point is this. If we do not have an electoral college system, if it is a flat universal vote, then the campaigning will only be done in la, New York and Chicago and maybe Seattle and some other cities. Smaller cities will constantly lose presidential elections and presidential. Presidential candidates will have no reason to try and convince smaller states and populations to support them. This means you end up with a scenario where you have Arizona saying, we have a bigger population than Nebraska. I don't think that's true. But like, Arizona could vote. And then Wyoming loses mineral rights. So a president comes in and says, I have no reason to protect the rights of people in Wyoming because they don't move the needle for either candidate. I witnessed, I interviewed a migrant farm worker. Family went in their kitchen and they turned the water faucet on and nothing came out. And they said, we can't drink, we can't take showers. And I said, hold on, what do you mean? And they said, the drought has hit everybody and there is surface water in our county that we should be able to drink. But San Diego voted that they get our water, so we die. And I was like, well, that's messed up. How do you protect against that? And they go, I have no idea. We all voted. And there's only. There's 13 million of them and there's 300,000 of us, so they. We die. I guess the farmers got loans and drilled thousands of feet into the earth and started getting as much groundwater as they could, which was causing the ground to sink and destroy the environment. All because Los Angeles is a dense population and there's no balance of control between jurisdictions. So I'm a big fan of the Senate, I'm a big fan of The Electoral College, because we are a massive nation, and I believe that if we didn't have that, this country would have broken apart a long time ago. Because you ain't taking my water.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, well, I obviously disagree with you.

[Tim Pool]

Do you think the people of Tulare should have their water taken away from it?

[Brian Shapiro]

Of course not, but I do.

[Tim Pool]

Then how do we balance that?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, in my personal opinion, it shouldn't matter what state you're in, what city you're in, one vote should mean just as much as another vote. Now, is what you talked about as far as campaigning goes. If you're running for president and you don't want to campaign in Wyoming because you don't think, you know, it's as valuable to you because you're not going to be able to get as many votes in that state, okay, so be it.

[Tim Pool]

That's why they don't care about age, Brian.

[Brian Shapiro]

Democracy. Stupid democracy. What?

[Tim Pool]

It's very stupid.

[Phil That Remains]

Democracy is stupid.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well, if I think a lot of people.

[Benjamin Michael]

I think a lot of mob rule. What you're advocating for is just mob rule. Like, if I drive my truck into a small town.

[Brian Shapiro]

Not.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, it is. Because if I drive. Okay, so vote. But that's what democracy is, is it not? So if I drive my truck into a small town and that small town votes that that truck now belongs to them, that's democracy, right?

[Brian Shapiro]

No, democracy is. I think. I think. I think everybody has the right to vote in this country. And I don't care what everybody had

[Benjamin Michael]

the right to vote. I cast my vote saying, this is my truck. And the town cast their vote saying, nope, this truck.

[Tim Pool]

There's a reason why the Founding Fathers did not want a democracy and spoke out against it.

[Phil That Remains]

Because it's stupid.

[Brian Shapiro]

Talk about the Founding Fathers. We could talk about a lot of things that we agree or disagree with. The point that I'm. And again, where I disagree with all of you, I assume, Ian, I don't know what your take is on this.

[Tim Pool]

He's a fascist, but you don't know me.

[Phil That Remains]

He wanted to make. He wanted to make Gaza the 51st state.

[Brian Shapiro]

All right, I don't agree. That's a little extreme for me. I don't agree with that. But, I mean, I just fundamentally disagree. I think. I think. And let's be honest here, everyone. Republicans would probably lose nine out of 10 elections. They would lose the pie. No, Donald Trump won the popular vote.

[Tim Pool]

Actually, that's actually not true.

[Brian Shapiro]

So in the history of this country, when it comes to presidential elections, what

[Tim Pool]

are the Stats where that's not what we're talking about.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, I'm just talking about the overwhelming majority of the populace. Brian Voting Republican or Democrat Republicans would lose almost every election.

[Tim Pool]

Brian. Brian, my, my ideas on these elections, I've come to them because I've already considered everything you're saying. In California it's 2 to 1, Democrat to Republican but it is largely known that Republicans don't turn out to vote. One hypothesis on the greater on the interstate compact, the popular vote interstate compact is that that if the elections do become popular vote contests, there are more blue states with inactive red voters than red states with inactive blue voters. We don't actually know how it will play out and I think it's actually a cope from a lot of Republicans to say oh the Democrats are trying to cheat when it comes to the interstate compact I think the bigger issue is instability. But there is a, there is a hypothesis where experts smarter than I have broken down what if voter turnout increased to standard levels among California Republicans? It would, it would jump the popular vote by an estimated like 3 to 4 million votes which theoretically could have swung those other votes those other presidential elections you are talking about. To put it simply, Republicans in California do not vote because it's so heavily Democratic. There, there's no point. That's the general belief. But in states like Wyoming, there's not a same proportion of inactive blue voters. So Democrats in Wyoming may be motivated to come out and vote but they will not out vote Republicans in blue states.

[Brian Shapiro]

I mean again, hypothetically speaking that that may or be possible. But I do also find it very interesting that when Republicans win an election.

[Tim Pool]

Can you grab one more thing? I'll come back up for you.

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[Tim Pool]

Really going to have another one.

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[Brian Shapiro]

And I'm speaking in general terms here, like in 2016 or in 2024, a lot of those MAGA Republicans, those conversations seem to go away. Everything, everything seemed to go okay in 2016 when Donald Trump won all that, if you remember.

[Tim Pool]

What do you mean?

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on, hold on.

[Tim Pool]

Trump said it was fraud, right?

[Brian Shapiro]

In 2000 I was getting to that.

[Tim Pool]

In 16 he said it was fraud

[Brian Shapiro]

in 2015 and leading up to those elections he was tell everybody that the Democrats were Going to cheat and Hillary was going to win. Then something happened. Donald Trump won a free and fair election. And then for the next three years, all of those rumblings and all of those conversations by MAGA Republicans seem to go away.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no, no, you're wrong. When Trump won in 2016, he came out almost immediately and said, I should have won by more. There was a ton of fraud. He accused the Democrats of fraud even when he won and the Democrats accused him of being a Russian.

[Ian Cross]

I got a question, Brian, for everybody, really. How do you feel about electronic voting on a proprietary voting machine?

[Phil That Remains]

No, I want paper ballots.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'd have to know. I'd have to know a little bit more about it.

[Ian Cross]

Dominion. Dominion has machines that you don't know.

[Brian Shapiro]

We all know Fox News lost almost a billion dollars, made a mistake by claiming that it was, it was cheated by, by the Dominion machine.

[Ian Cross]

They made a claim, by the way, was a lie. They had a claim that they didn't. Well, they didn't have evidence to prove their claim, so they got sued. But the reality is if you have a machine where the code is secret and you don't know what it's doing, I believe it's a vulnerability. I don't know if it's necessarily hacking or not, but, but it's opportunity for hacking and fraud. So I feel like having an opportunity for hacking and fraud in our voting system is a massive.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, hold on. I would have agreed with you on Dominion in 2020, but then a Republican bought it and now Dominion's fantastic.

[Ian Cross]

But I'm just like, I know you're kind of being facetious, but like, I'm still not comfortable with electronic, secretive ballot counting with a foreign corporation.

[Brian Shapiro]

I mean, I hate to agree with Phil on anything, quite frankly, but I do agree with him on this.

[Phil That Remains]

I do think, old school, allergic to being correct.

[Brian Shapiro]

I do believe, I do believe that, you know, we should probably keep it away from the Dominion machines. That'll probably be a little bit more comfortable there. That headline that you just put up which, which you know, Trump falsely claims, which is every day he falsely claims something, but millions of people who voted illegally cost in the popular vote. That is a lie. If you're illegal, you are not allowed to vote in a presidential election. That is a lie. Doesn't that bother anybody?

[Tim Pool]

He didn't say illegal people. He said people who voted illegally.

[Brian Shapiro]

Right, but he's. But I understand that.

[Benjamin Michael]

But then why do Democrats not want ICE at voting?

[Tim Pool]

Like that is weird.

[Brian Shapiro]

Sure, I'll answer that. I'll Answer that. Because I think it's intimidation.

[Tim Pool]

Of who?

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah. Of who, if you're a legal immigrant, be.

[Brian Shapiro]

Why should I speed up those. Why?

[Benjamin Michael]

Why. Why would Democrats be afraid of it?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, but why?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, so to prevent illegal immigrants from trying to vote.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so illegal immigrants cannot vote. And I will tell you this.

[Tim Pool]

So it's actually quite simple.

[Benjamin Michael]

And they try.

[Tim Pool]

No one should care, and they try.

[Brian Shapiro]

Anybody can try to do anything. Right.

[Benjamin Michael]

So what's wrong with having ice?

[Brian Shapiro]

There it is. Okay, first of all, if you're a

[Tim Pool]

family, we have guards at.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'll give you an example.

[Tim Pool]

People can't steal money from.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let's just say you're the mother. You know, let's just say you're a mother and you're not voting. You're undocumented and you're there with your kids that are old enough to vote. Mom wants to go with the kids and watch them vote, whatever the case may be. I would imagine a lot of people would be very intimidated, and they wouldn't go there. And they wouldn't vote because there are ICE agents.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, hold on. Well, intimidated by law enforcement.

[Benjamin Michael]

Wait, your example is someone is some kids that have birthright citizenship from an illegal mother.

[Phil That Remains]

That's your anchor babies.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm giving you.

[Benjamin Michael]

That's your example.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm giving you examples where I've talked to people that would be.

[Benjamin Michael]

They shouldn't be voting either, to be frank.

[Tim Pool]

So criminals agree.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, there are people. There are people that are very.

[Tim Pool]

Should banks have guards?

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, but why.

[Tim Pool]

But you're not allowed. You can't take money from a bank.

[Ian Cross]

Illegals can vote.

[Brian Shapiro]

There's just evidence that undocumented immigrants, so many of them are voting illegally.

[Tim Pool]

No, but the argument is it doesn't matter.

[Benjamin Michael]

That's not the point.

[Tim Pool]

I'm going to say this. You are right. They don't vote. So who cares if ICE is there?

[Brian Shapiro]

Do you. Do. Do you understand the point that I'm trying to make, though? The point that I'm trying to make

[Tim Pool]

is criminal aliens might.

[Brian Shapiro]

Actually, I saw some stat that like 26 people voted illegally that were undocumented in this country. And I'm in 2024 and I'm trying to figure out why. I think ICE agents.

[Tim Pool]

I completely agree. I'm trying to figure out why Democrats are mad about ICE agents being at a facility.

[Brian Shapiro]

I was mad about it. But what I am saying is I understand why some people might feel uncomfortable. Okay.

[Tim Pool]

I can understand that there are people who believe illegal immigrants are voting, and this will make them feel Better. And I think the feelings of maybe these people are stupid, but if it makes them feel better, then what's the harm?

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so I'll tell you what the harm is. Don't you think those ICE agents could be used in other areas in better ways to be serving this country and doing what they're doing than the door to door raids?

[Tim Pool]

Sure, but my answer is no. Because government is built on confidence. And if the American people in a large portion have no confidence in election, we need to restore it. Otherwise elections stop mattering.

[Brian Shapiro]

Undocumented immigrants are not allowed to vote in this country. Why is it I hear all.

[Tim Pool]

Also, I also agree people aren't allowed to murder.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, yeah, but how many undocumented immigrants have been proven that?

[Tim Pool]

How many investigations have we had?

[Brian Shapiro]

I mean, I mean, if Donald Trump, Donald Trump and his. You have to have evidence though, to prove that somebody undocumented voted. And I'm telling you, I think there were like 24 cases or something like that. That.

[Tim Pool]

And how do you, how do you get the evidence?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, accusation lawsuit. If the accusation is because I hear a lot of people on the right constantly talking about, well, the only reason why Democrats want all these undocumented immigrants in this country is so they can take food stamps and welfare and, and they can vote anchor babies.

[Benjamin Michael]

Anchor babies.

[Phil That Remains]

And so they can change the congressional districts.

[Tim Pool]

Conservatives are led by very dumb people. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not, I'm not trying to single the Republican Party, but the Republican Party is very dumb and they have a lot of people who are ignorant. I don't want to, I don't want to blanket the conservative voter as stupid. I think the politicians are evil and stupid. I think the Democrat politicians are evil and stupid. The issue is when an illegal immigrant comes into this country under the Biden administration is a great example. He was flying them to various cities in the census. These illegal immigrants cluster around cities which results in more electoral college votes for Democrats and it results in more congressional seats for Democrats not because they vote, but because they pad the census numbers. It's estimated that if you were to remove all illegal immigrants, Democrats could lose an estimated four to 12 congressional seats. So when you combine redistricting with current redistricting, with census redistricting in 2030 and illegal and mass deportations, there is. The swing is expected to be somewhere around between the like 10 to 20 seats that Democrats will lose. So one of the mistakes made, there's an organization called Third Way and they say we debunk this. The Idea that Democrats get more congressional votes or electoral college votes because of illegal immigrants is wrong because Texas is red and they have illegal immigrants and California is blue and they have illegal immigrants. And that's how you lie to people. This is the, this is the institutional. This is the academic machine of lies. The reality is the illegal immigrants in Texas are known to be clustered in Austin and Dallas and Houston, which are urban districts which doubles the size of the Democrat districts. So Democrats are gaining seats because of illegal immigrants in Texas and they are gaining seats because of illegal immigrants in California. So in to an argument, there's one reason why people shouldn't like the electoral college because Democrats would actually lose a lot. But the point is conservatives Republicans come out and they say illegal immigrants are voting. And this is the stupidest thing because it's not true. They do vote sometimes. Sometimes they get caught, sometimes they don't. I don't think millions of illegal immigrants are voting and swinging elections or not, but they are giving electoral college votes to Democrats illicitly.

[Brian Shapiro]

Again, I think of a family that has some maybe undocumented people in their family. I think of the news. I think of. And you know, do my criminal.

[Phil That Remains]

Do you think of the chilling.

[Brian Shapiro]

Do I think of the overwhelming majority of ICE agents as bad people that just want to kill people? Of course not. Right. But when you see the images on television and you see what happened to Renee Good and Alex Preddy, there are some people in this country that are very intimidated by those images and those videos. And I could absolutely see some of these people not voting for that reason.

[Benjamin Michael]

This is literally the meme. This is literally the meme. This is. Oh, no, a crying baby. We can't have a society exactly like. This is literally the meme. What are we talking about here?

[Brian Shapiro]

I think I'm talking about. I'm talking about.

[Benjamin Michael]

But you're talking about families that have undocumented immigrants being intimidated because they have un. Because they are criminals. They're not supposed to be here. And we're incentivizing them to come here by giving them birthright citizenship for their children, which is also. You're against birthright citizens 100 I'm against the current interpretation of it because that was author. The author of the 14th Amendment explicitly said it wouldn't apply to aliens. And so that's not the intention. That is what is bent. That's what's.

[Brian Shapiro]

Do you think everybody should be deported?

[Ian Cross]

Let's just everyone.

[Benjamin Michael]

All the illegals.

[Tim Pool]

Nobody with me.

[Ian Cross]

I'm out of here. This.

[Benjamin Michael]

I, I believe it. Well, first of all, every illegal should be debanked. That's the first thing.

[Tim Pool]

That's like a very great idea.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, no, that's the. I cannot believe we haven't done that yet. Yeah. So I basically have like a. A three phase remigration plan. The first would be illegals, and it's very simple. You debank and then ICE can take care of the remainder, which is not very many. Secondly, first generation migrants. And actually I would extend this to third generation as well, because there's a lot of these communities, like in Minnesota, for example, with the Somalis.

[Brian Shapiro]

Right.

[Benjamin Michael]

Where you have literally like three or four generations of migrants that are here. They have not integrated whatsoever, they don't even speak English, they are not American, but they've been here for three generations. What do we do with them?

[Brian Shapiro]

Why does that.

[Benjamin Michael]

Well, hang on a second, hang on a second. Let me land this real quick. If we strip them, if we say third generation and newer are not eligible for welfare programs, almost all of them would just leave. Because the reality is 53% of first generation migrants, according to the center for Immigration Studies, 53%, as soon as they get here, are on a welfare program. That is insane. So we're. Not only are we allowing them to come into our countries on these garbage programs that are abused, but then we're paying them to be here, here, which is absolutely insane.

[Ian Cross]

Oh, here.

[Tim Pool]

90.

[Phil That Remains]

Totally agree.

[Brian Shapiro]

When you talk about Somalis, I wanted to ask you a little bit about that.

[Benjamin Michael]

Sure.

[Brian Shapiro]

Because I wanted to get your thoughts.

[Phil That Remains]

Because you wanted to change the subject.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, he's talking about Somalis. We're talking about immigrants. We're talking about fraud. Right. In this case, I didn't bring up

[Benjamin Michael]

the fraud, but we can talk about the 9 billion in fraud that they

[Tim Pool]

also denaturalize and deport.

[Brian Shapiro]

So you care about. You care about the Somali fraud. Is that a fair characterization?

[Benjamin Michael]

No, I care about American demographics and American identity, and I care about America first policies that prioritize Americans who are actually American, they actually abide by American values and they.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's happening right now in the Trump administration.

[Benjamin Michael]

No, I don't. I think that Trump is doing a poor job of that, actually. I think that he's too pro multiculturalism.

[Brian Shapiro]

The reason why I brought up the Somalis.

[Tim Pool]

That's hateful, too.

[Amica Insurance Ad Voice]

He.

[Tim Pool]

Does he unfold an LGBT flag?

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, he parades that.

[Brian Shapiro]

I think this is important to talk about the Somali stuff for a moment because I'm against fraud. No matter what you look like, like where you're from, whether you're an undocumented.

[Benjamin Michael]

I didn't even bring up fraud. Because you want to talk about fraud. I want to talk about demographics.

[Tim Pool]

I don't want. But, but he's.

[Brian Shapiro]

I wanted to bring up.

[Tim Pool]

He's not talking about fraud. He was talking about how Somalis, multigenerational Somalis in Minnesota collect welfare. Welfare benefits.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Ilhan Omar explicitly stated they're going to send that money to Somalia and that if you just said, okay, well, you're not eligible for welfare, you know, up to a certain generation, they would leave.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

That's not. He didn't bring up fraud. Fraud.

[Benjamin Michael]

This is legitimate welfare. That they're, that they're.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand that. And I'm not going to sit here and defend Ilhan Omar because I think she's a despicable human being. But with that being said, the reason why I, I think the Somali, you know, is what's going on in Minneapolis is interesting is because I hear so many people on the right that go after Somalis and the Somali fraud, and I don't know, this person might have stolen $10,000 in welfare from the government, so on and so forth. What about the over 70 people that have been given pardons that have committed billions of dollars in fraud and don't have to pay back any restitution? I never hear people.

[Benjamin Michael]

This is literally a deflection, though.

[Tim Pool]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, well, we'll wrap them up too, with the Somalis and put them on a boat and send them to the

[Benjamin Michael]

island or they're Americans. They can go to prison. No, they've been here forever. Then that's our problem.

[Tim Pool]

Then Trump was wrong.

[Phil That Remains]

He naturalize or strip them of their citizenship and send them to the movie moon.

[Tim Pool]

They will know. To Somalia. There you go. We agree with you. They can go to Somalia with Ilhan.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Strip them of their citizens.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, you could tell I'm not a big fan of hers. But.

[Benjamin Michael]

But the point is, this isn't about fraud. This is about America last policies that are literally prioritizing foreigners who just got here over Americans who've been here forever. Americans who actually built this country. That's who we're prior.

[Brian Shapiro]

Country founded on immigrants.

[Benjamin Michael]

No, the. The entire phrase nation of immigrants doesn't show up until the 1960s pushed by the anti Defamat League in a book that was attributed to jfk, not actually written by him. So that that phrase doesn't even show up until we should make it easier

[Brian Shapiro]

for people to come into this country.

[Benjamin Michael]

Absolutely not.

[Brian Shapiro]

So 10 to 15 years to become a. A national.

[Benjamin Michael]

I don't think we. I think we should close the border for the indefinite future. Close the, Close the border.

[Phil That Remains]

End immigration for two decades.

[Brian Shapiro]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

least I'm only halfway there between you guys.

[Brian Shapiro]

10. Wow.

[Tim Pool]

No, I think I. I do think we want immigration. What we don't want is mass H1BS. We don't want cultural dis. Cohesion. We don't want displacement. We do want hand cherry picked. Scientists, athletes.

[Benjamin Michael]

Like, shouldn't those people be making their countries better? Because we're actually stripping them from them. And that turns places like India into a shithole.

[Tim Pool]

So, I mean, I got no problem with the United States being the unipolar dominant power by brain draining other countries.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay, but why isn't China doing this? Like, why isn't China bringing in all these, you know, scientists?

[Brian Shapiro]

They are.

[Tim Pool]

It's called the Thousand Talents program.

[Benjamin Michael]

They're bringing in Indians.

[Tim Pool]

Well, I. Probably the thousand talents China is recruiting.

[Benjamin Michael]

Well, but you already granted, you're against H1B. You're against.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, it's miserable.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So what H1B is the lie where they try and tell. So are you familiar with like oh 1 and oh 2 visas and things like this? Extraordinary talent. Scientists, researchers, business leaders. H1B is not those things that they claim. H1B is for the people who just. We can't find him to do this job. They're. They're, they're talent. No, no, no, no, no. Those are O visas and there's a bunch of others. There's, there's like Olympic athletes that. I think that's like a k visa. H1Bs are. We couldn't find anyone to take the job, so we'll take whoever we can get. And the trick that these companies use is they're supposed to make a public announcement of the job availability. If nobody applies, then they're legally allowed to recruit from any other country through H1B. If they of course, get the. Is a lottery for it. So what they do is they'll buy a tiny little ad in a newspaper to satisfy the legal requirement for public notice. Then when no one applies for the job, hire a guy at 70% of the standard wage from India and move him here. It's fraud. That is fraud across the board. Those are American companies doing it.

[Phil That Remains]

And it's worth noting that the H1Bs are tied to employment. So the people that actually employ these people basically can treat them like absolute garbage.

[Benjamin Michael]

Well, that's another thing. They're paid 20, 30% less.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, and they'd you better work on Saturday.

[Phil That Remains]

It'd be terrible if you lost your job.

[Benjamin Michael]

Talking about here, because that's another thing too is like, but don't you agree

[Tim Pool]

hundreds of thousands per year, maybe.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay, sure. But don't you agree that like, we are in a position now where we, we need to close it at least for now to get things under control, get our demographics under, I think get, I mean, right now we are literally like, I mean the immigration problem in America right now is even under Trump.

[Tim Pool]

But my point is when we, when we stop the general economic migration.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So I don't think we should have zero migration. But I think you and I actually probably agree to a great extent. I don't think a working class guy in Guatemala should be able to apply for a work visa to come to the United States at this point because of the issues we've had. So I have no problem with a general moratorium on economic migration. But if there's like a dude who's invented a new polymer that's gonna revolutionize space travel or something, we gotta steal those people. And I understand your point too, because it's a good point that their countries become shitholes because we take the talent from them. I actually am not bothered by the idea that the United States is a shining city on the hill of the best, brightest, wealthiest, and the other countries go down the bell curve of like, worse, and we're at the top.

[Benjamin Michael]

But what do you mean by better? Now you're just talking about like technological development and like GDP going up. Like, what do you mean by better?

[Tim Pool]

Because we're not, I'm not, I'm not concerned about cultural discohesion from like 100,000 people per year into 300 million.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, I agree with that. But right now cultural discohesion is. Exactly. But that's, but that's my entire with

[Tim Pool]

a more with deportations combined with general economic migration moratorium. We're, we're reversing that. But I, I, I still think we want to leave the door open for legitimate top tier, high talent. Like, if there's a dude in India and his IQ is 210.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

And he's like, I'm gonna build the best super semiconductor anyone's ever seen. I have a new invention. We don't want India to have that yet. We want it.

[Benjamin Michael]

I mean, I'm not, I don't want

[Tim Pool]

them to beat us in the long term.

[Benjamin Michael]

I'm not oppos long term. I'm not opposed to, yeah, a couple hundred thousand, you know, migrants a year. I think that, that, I think that's normal. I think that's healthy for, for a nation.

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[Benjamin Michael]

But I mean, I think just that right now, right now because of the little 911 situation we're in with migration, with mass migration, would you agree with. I just think we need a blanket, a blanket.

[Tim Pool]

But again, so like let's say we do a blanket moratorium, zero immigration and then literally some guy in India is like I've done it, I've discovered a new element and we're like, I'm willing

[Benjamin Michael]

to take that risk if in return I get my America first policies, we get Americans taken care of and we fix our demographics.

[Brian Shapiro]

Are we doing that now?

[Ian Cross]

That won't happen though.

[Tim Pool]

So here's the other thing. It's not a one and done thing. The reason why I'm not for just like, I'm talking like a 90%, you're talking 100. So Elon's building semiconductor factories. We, we, we've outsourced. One of the problems with everything we've done in the past 30 years is outsourcing of a lot of our higher talent jobs. We have Taiwan building most of our semiconductors which has left us vulnerable to China. We need those here. It's one of the reasons why I think SpaceX is actually going to go way up in value because Elon's talking about building a semiconductor. It's called like Terrafab, I think semiconductor factory in the U.S. we, we need to like reintegrate top technological talent, engineering etc which we gave away. So we have a twofold problem with we're bringing in too many Guatemalan farmers, they can't replace middle managers and we've exported a lot of our high tech jobs. You know, like I, I, I, I, I went to a meeting With a, with an app development company. Ten years ago I had an app that I was working on most of their. When when we're like, okay, we need to hire some developers, they go, oh, Ukraine. Just hire Ukrainians in Ukraine, not in America. Because you can only. You got, you got to pay them 60k a year. You hire American, it's 150.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah. And that's that. That we need policies to be in place to incentivize hiring Americans, bringing manufacturing to America. All these things are part of this.

[Tim Pool]

But so to my point is we get like we import our semiconductors from Taiwan. From Taiwan. And there's Taiwanese specialists.

[Benjamin Michael]

Why we're defending.

[Tim Pool]

In the short term. Exactly. In the short term, we might want to take three or four of their top talents. Talent. Bring them here to oversee a factory so we can reintegrate.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let's talk about solutions on what we do right now.

[Phil That Remains]

Yeah. Close the border.

[Brian Shapiro]

So I understand. Let's talk about the people that are already here. So yeah, I think the stats I saw a couple years ago was that more than 50 of people that are in this country undocumented and this might have changed those that overstay their visas. Yeah.

[Benjamin Michael]

So.

[Brian Shapiro]

So here's my. Round them up. Okay.

[Tim Pool]

So.

[Benjamin Michael]

So the bank.

[Brian Shapiro]

So you come from the cloth, which is you committed the misdemeanor. You're in this country illegally. Even if you haven't committed a violent crime in say 30 years, you have a family here.

[Phil That Remains]

Even if everybody committed.

[Benjamin Michael]

It's not even about. It's not even about.

[Tim Pool]

Bro.

[Benjamin Michael]

Bro.

[Tim Pool]

That's so brilliant. The debanking thing. I never even considered it. Imagine someone comes in for a visa. Hold on. Let's. Let's say someone gets like a two, a two year work live visa. When you apply for a bank account, they should attach your visa to the account and say that's cool. Your bank account has an expiration date.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

And when it expires, you get mailed to check.

[Ian Cross]

And if you want to your bank

[Phil That Remains]

when it expire, you have you, you have to take that money out and leave. And if you don't, the bank keeps it. That money goes to the Federal Reserve

[Brian Shapiro]

or to the, to the Treasury. To the treasury.

[Phil That Remains]

Pay back the debt. Right.

[Tim Pool]

When account closed, they mail the, the balance to whatever address is on fire.

[Phil That Remains]

Not for these guys.

[Tim Pool]

Well, I don't the reason why I think it's funny what you're saying, but there are people who would have a visa expire and intend to leave. We can't just seize their money. If we want them to leave. They need money to go.

[Phil That Remains]

You got to put. Well, you know. Because they know when their visa expires. Right. You've got this, you got up until this date. You have, you have to get your

[Tim Pool]

money out then, then agreed. There would have to be like a multi notice system where it's like three month warning. Sure. To expire. Your account will be shut down.

[Phil That Remains]

Sure. I mean, look, man, you get annoying.

[Tim Pool]

Brilliant.

[Phil That Remains]

You get annoying text messages and annoying mailers all the time. You can add those.

[Benjamin Michael]

Most of this problem would solve themselves. Like. And then you.

[Tim Pool]

Do you disagree with that?

[Brian Shapiro]

I mean, it's an interesting theory.

[Tim Pool]

Well, because we're not talking about deportation. We're saying your visa, it was an agreement. You can be here for two years. Why should they be allowed to have an American bank account after that? And then. Yeah, they'll just leave and.

[Ian Cross]

Or have the money shipped to a foreign bank and we're saving money.

[Phil That Remains]

Send it to.

[Tim Pool]

Send it to the treasury, the ICE agents anymore. I mean this solves everything.

[Phil That Remains]

And you should also, you should also make.

[Benjamin Michael]

You need ICE for the remainder. There's. You would need. Really. ICE would be everyone. It would be for the anomalies, it would be for the, you know, the few if they weren't. That didn't leave.

[Phil That Remains]

It should also be a legal option.

[Tim Pool]

This is, this is like exactly, exactly. You come into the country, we welcome you in, and then when your visa expires, your, your accounts and you know, expire with it and then you have to refile or leave.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let's talk.

[Phil That Remains]

And you all. No, hold on, hold on one second. And also there I saw that the, the DOJ is actually going after some people that employ illegals. Those people should, they should definitely go after employers.

[Benjamin Michael]

Oh, literally partially fined.

[Phil That Remains]

Absolutely.

[Benjamin Michael]

Probably jail time.

[Tim Pool]

The green light.

[Benjamin Michael]

I think they're also harsh.

[Phil That Remains]

And also anyone that rents to illegals,

[Brian Shapiro]

they should be harsh penalties.

[Phil That Remains]

They should be harsh penalties because you're, you're harboring criminals. So they should. This, this is how you, this is

[Benjamin Michael]

literally immigration liberal or whatever you call yourself. You, this is how you mitigate the exploitation of my low cost migrant labor. This is how you mitigate that because you're getting them out in a humane way.

[Brian Shapiro]

Right.

[Benjamin Michael]

So that, that the economy is not taking advantage of them. Which is something that you disagree with. We all agree that's bad.

[Phil That Remains]

There's no ICE raids.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

What if, what if we actually create like visa accounts so that it's not a bank, it's actually an account through the government if you are coming here, so what, what this says twofold, when these workers come here, they can't get paid under the table. I mean, you can, but you, what you want to do is you want to create an easy path to, to not having that happen, happen. We don't want illegal workers. So when you come here with a visa, you get an account attached to it with a bank account so that we can make sure they're paying taxes they're supposed to pay. They're getting paid the amount of money they're supposed to getting paid, not getting ripped off. And then when their visa expires, the account has just gone with it. It's a, it's, it's a, it's a one whole. One of the problems we have is they'll come in and they'll just work under the table.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

So how do we, how do, how do you get rid of that? Well, you don't get rid of it through punishment because they're already breaking the law. You get, you get rid of it through incentive. How did we stop people stealing music? We made it easier to stream music than to download music. So you make it easier for them to get paid through an account than it is to get paid under the table. Taxes are collected, property properly, wages are paid properly. Less illegal hiring because it's easier just to use the account. And then when your visa expires, the

[Benjamin Michael]

account is talking about harsh penalties for the employers and.

[Tim Pool]

No. Agreed.

[Benjamin Michael]

And the.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. You get caught paying under the table, you get lashes.

[Brian Shapiro]

You think it's, it's humane what they're doing right now?

[Phil That Remains]

Don't care.

[Tim Pool]

What?

[Brian Shapiro]

You don't care if people are, are treated like animals? You don't care?

[Phil That Remains]

I want people that are. I want people to be dissuaded from coming here illegally.

[Tim Pool]

Dissuaded from saying.

[Brian Shapiro]

But that wasn't my question.

[Phil That Remains]

If it takes some amount of, of military or a police force to do it, then yes, I'm okay with it.

[Tim Pool]

Let me, let me, let me ask you, do you.

[Brian Shapiro]

Go ahead.

[Tim Pool]

So you said people are being treated like animals.

[Brian Shapiro]

Some, Some are.

[Tim Pool]

So what is the, what is the criminal line for when someone can be treated like an animal? We're all like, like, like, like a guy walks into kid and like, let's say a black guy walked into a mall, went to the third floor.

[Brian Shapiro]

First of all, don't break the law. If someone seek asylum, don't break the law. Don't deport them.

[Tim Pool]

Let's say a black dude went to a mall.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Went to the third floor grabbed a little boy and chucked him over the edge of the railing. Can you treat him like an animal?

[Brian Shapiro]

You could certainly use deadly force. If to, to arrest him worse than an animal.

[Tim Pool]

Then you know, we have, you can't

[Brian Shapiro]

just do an animal. That's, that's, that's a felony. We're talking about. I'm talking specifically about people that have killed.

[Tim Pool]

I'm just going to the extreme end.

[Brian Shapiro]

We're walking, right, But I'm, I'm, I'm not talking about felons or, or serious, what I would consider violent crime. We're talking about people who have committed misdemeanors. And I think when you send certain people that are nonviolent criminals, say to an El Salvador prison, treated like animals, I have a problem with that.

[Tim Pool]

They're El Salvadoran.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, not everybody that, no, that's not true. People that were sent over there, a good portion of them were not from that country.

[Tim Pool]

Other examples.

[Brian Shapiro]

Look, look it up, look it up. What's the guy from Maryland, I'm forgetting his name.

[Tim Pool]

That's actually incorrect. There is no guy from Maryland.

[Ian Cross]

He lived in Maryland. He was from El Salvador.

[Tim Pool]

The guy from El Salvador who got sent to El Salvador, they claim that

[Brian Shapiro]

he was in gangs because of his tattoos.

[Benjamin Michael]

Why is it the, why is it America's responsibility to even ensure that they get back to their, the country?

[Brian Shapiro]

Because there's something in our.

[Benjamin Michael]

But they came into our, they came into our country, right? Why does it matter? Why does it matter? Because why is it our responsibility?

[Brian Shapiro]

Why does, why does it matter? So we can just be inhumane to human beings?

[Benjamin Michael]

Is that your argument? My argument is why does it. But why is it America's responsibility to get them back to their home country in the first place? Well, just expel them from our country. Country.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on.

[Brian Shapiro]

Send them to an El Salvador and away from America.

[Benjamin Michael]

They came here illegally.

[Tim Pool]

Ryan is correct. 230 Venezuelans were sent to El Salvador.

[Phil That Remains]

230.

[Tim Pool]

Why is 130.

[Benjamin Michael]

Why is it America's responsibility? I don't understand.

[Brian Shapiro]

So, so send them to us all.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on real quick. Venezuela refused to accept them, so they were sent to El Salvador instead.

[Brian Shapiro]

So it's your position that why is it our responsibility? So if you've committed a misdemeanor and you've been in this country for decades and you're non violent criminal, I know you don't care about, but I do.

[Phil That Remains]

None of it matters.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well to you guys it doesn't matter.

[Benjamin Michael]

And stop. It doesn't matter because without. If you don't have borders that are actually upheld, then you don't have a country, don't have a nation.

[Tim Pool]

I want to make a few points. Abrego Garcia was adjudicated two times before this as a member of Ms. 13. I understand that it's adjudication. That's the process by which we say, okay, that is, that is a thing.

[Brian Shapiro]

60 Minutes, Tory. That I thought was some really good investigators. I believe the stat that I saw was over 60% of the people that were sent to this prison where they were treated like animals are nonviolent. Nonviolent criminals don't care. So if you've committed a misdemeanor, you're okay with, oh, it's El Salvador.

[Tim Pool]

If. Okay, listen, there's two. There's only. There's only one issue to entertain as an argument, and that is Venezuela refused to accept Venezuelans that were in America, so Trump sent them to El Salvador. Now instead, there is an international issue at that point, but Venezuela refusing to accept their own citizens puts us in a conundrum that there's no good answer for. I'm not happy with us sending Venezuelans to El Salvador, but when we send Salvadorans to El Salvador, it is up to the country of El Salvador to deal with their own citizens. If they're treated like animals, that's unfortunate for them in their own country. But I can cite a million other countries that are substantially worse. Like China's raping and forcing abortions on Uyghur Muslims.

[Benjamin Michael]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

What China does to its own citizens, we are mad about, but we don't intervene. I mean, I don't expect us to do. If El Salvador has a law and a prison and we send criminals that are El Salvador and back to El Salvador, it is up to their country and their jurisdiction to deal with them

[Brian Shapiro]

as per their long as everybody has to an extent of due process, then I don't disagree with you. But that's not what's happening within this administration right now. And I also talked about people that are seeking asylum coming from what due

[Benjamin Michael]

process is necessary for someone who's illegally

[Tim Pool]

here, I got to admit, address this because this is a liberal framing device and I do not appreciate conservatives not understanding what's happening. Due process is not a proper noun. It is a. It's a. It's a definitional sentence. It is definitional phrase. So if you want process literally means the process by which an individual is due under the law in the Constitution,

[Brian Shapiro]

if someone is seeking asylum and they're and they're filling out the proper paperwork and they're, they're, they're going to their court dates and all that. Is it illegal for us to deport them?

[Tim Pool]

No. Listen, I am not playing this framing device game. If you come to a port of entry and apply for asylum, you may be granted it or temporary protected status. If you enter the country illegally, committing a crime and then say, I want asylum, they can deport you.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. But we know that there are cases where they are seeking asylum and they're going about it the right way and they're filing the proper paperwork and they're getting arrested right outside of courtrooms. That, that is illegal. Those are the specific cases you're talking about.

[Tim Pool]

Individuals who entered illegally and later tried to claim asylum to stay here. The due process in that circumstance, the process by which you are due under the law based on the INA codified by Congress, is that an executive branch judge. These are not judiciary. Can issue an expedited deportation order regardless of your declaration of refugee or asylum status. If you apply beforehand and are granted granted tps, then they cannot because the process you are due is a hearing.

[Brian Shapiro]

What I'm trying to tell you is that is also taking place and you can look that up if you.

[Tim Pool]

And the existence of errors are regretful and should be stopped. It's happening a lot, but it's not the majority or the bulk. And it's not the principle.

[Brian Shapiro]

It was the majority. I never said that.

[Tim Pool]

The issue at hand is 90 plus percent of the people who. So during the Biden administration, they. I think the number was between 1995. The people claiming asylum did not have legitimate claims. They were crossing the border illegally, being placed under a bridge in Texas. And then CBP officers were being instructed not to ask them their claims. And they're. They're being put on buses, trains, planes and vans and shipped across the country. Then they were being asked when they arrived by NGOs what their asylum claims were. Then they were gone. And the asylum claims were determined to be at a high rate, to be like false or incorrect claims, and they were already gone. So what the Biden administration then did was they, they just erased the cases. So where these people were supposed to go to court to follow up on the claims they had made, they became de facto second class citizens in the United States because they were here illegally, but they no longer had pending action under asylum claims. This is psychotic. It's insanity. Deport all of these people and do not let People illegally enter the country and if they overstay their visas, do you think?

[Brian Shapiro]

And deport everybody that's undocumented in this country right now, regardless whether you have any other criminal record or broke any other law other than committing a misdemeanor coming into this country illegally. It could be 50

[Tim Pool]

real quick. It all should be deported real quick. If you got a problem with the law, you can change it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well, yeah.

[Benjamin Michael]

Also imagine.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, what I was just talking about with you is the Trump administration breaking the law, right?

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[Tim Pool]

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[Tim Pool]

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[Brian Shapiro]

just told you there are specific examples of people that filled out the proper paperwork, that have done it the proper

[Tim Pool]

way, that are being dependent and when, when errors happen because they happen in every system, they're regrettable. They should be stopped.

[Brian Shapiro]

You agree that that's also wrong?

[Tim Pool]

We, you and I agree that if a person filed legitimate sile paper at a port of entry.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

Came in with protected status and were deported, we do have a problem. Agreed.

[Brian Shapiro]

That is the issue is all I was saying.

[Tim Pool]

We hear from liberals all the time this phrase due process and conservatives who have not looked up the Constitution or understand what the phrase means, think there's a proper noun that due process means a jury trial or a.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, I don't think that due process

[Tim Pool]

means the process you are due under the law.

[Brian Shapiro]

Right?

[Tim Pool]

Which means as if you illegally cross the border and a CBP agent or ICE agent sees you. The process you are due is for them to apprehend you and drive you back across the border.

[Ian Cross]

You know what I mean?

[Tim Pool]

Real simple.

[Ian Cross]

I don't think that everyone that's here illegally should be deported. I think there's prosecutorial discretion and sometimes ripping societies apart for the sake of the law actually destroys your society. Not all law is good. So there are times like you've been here 10 years, you have kids here, they are not priority to deport in my opinion.

[Benjamin Michael]

But that incentivize. But if someone that incentivizes it though, then people see that, they're like, oh, so if we can just last 10 years, we just have to make it 10 years and then they'll let us stay. So anytime you implement policies like that, officially that incentivizes more illegal migration.

[Ian Cross]

It's not official. It would be not on the, on the books. You still can get deported if you've been here 80 years. Okay, but realistically, deprioritize the prosecutions, people that have been here for 30 years.

[Tim Pool]

Let me tell you guys a story, a story that I've told a million times to this audience and they, they're going to hear it again, but it's for you. Now I got hostile environment training. Everybody wants to. Every, every young journalist wishes they can go to a heat session. And in it we were told that for most of us in the training, we were Americans. But there are some people who are not. The final. The final training scenario we did was that we were going to into. So it was, it was role playing, right? We were going to interview a terrorist. They put us in SUVs, we drive to the terrorist HQ and then right when we get out, they scream and run up with masks and AKs and kidnap us. They bring us to a warehouse. We can't see anything. We have bags over our heads. And we stood there for hours. It's actually kind of fun. Then they put us to a room and interrogated us. They put. There's like a low light like in the movies and there's three guys in front of you and they're like banging the table. I had a lot, I had a lot of fun doing it. Then they put you back against the wall and after about like three hours in total, you hear flashbangs, you hear doors kick open, you hear screaming. On the ground. On the ground. Nobody move. And dudes come in tactical gear and guns. They put the scenario terrorists on the ground. Everybody stands there. Then they march us all outside, take all our masks, us. And they explain to us, if you are American and you are kidnapped, do as you have done, that you will be rescued. Special forces will be dispatched and they will massacre everyone. The United States does not negotiate with kidnappers or terrorists. However, unless you're Donald Trump, if you are European, particularly if you are German or Spanish, you need to avoid these areas. The governments of Spain and Germany notoriously pay any amount to rescue their citizens. So you are high targets. If you go to the Middle east to do journalism, they will seek you out and they will kidnap you. If you are Americans, they will be afraid to. Like there are stories that I've heard and they explained because these guys were former Special Forces, MI6, British and things like that. And they were like, yeah, what happens is if they kidnap an American in the middle of the night, a helicopter is heard overhead, dudes drop down with night vision and kill every one of the kidnappers. So my point real quick is this, the reason I bring this up is that the United States has maintained the doctrine that you do not negotiate because it will incentivize. If we say as, as, as you were just pointing out, if you last a certain amount of time, you can make it. Then they go, here's our plan. We're gonna hide and we're gonna be squatters and we're also gonna falsify documents

[Ian Cross]

claiming, yeah, but you don't, this is why I said you don't make it legal. You just say, hey, if you're here illegally, you're gonna get deported. But then realistically behind the scenes you're like, we're not gonna, we're gonna.

[Tim Pool]

And then what happens is it's reflected in enforcement and the cartels go, here's your 10 year forged document. Once you get to Omaha, claim you've been there for 10 years and they can't remove you.

[Brian Shapiro]

Take them out. And I disagree with some, what you guys are saying, but I want to ask you a question because you had said something to me earlier off the air, which I completely disagree with. You have a disdain for Muslims and you believe even if you're a legal immigrant, you believe all Muslims should be deported. Is that correct?

[Benjamin Michael]

Muslims that are consistent with their religion. Yes.

[Brian Shapiro]

What is that? What does that mean?

[Benjamin Michael]

Because sahih, I'll be. Sahih Bukhari, 6922, which is a, which is a, a Sahi hadith, it's authoritative to all Sunni Muslims states that they have to kill all apostates. So that means that they are held to the doctrine that if a, let's say a 20 year old Muslim girl converts to Christianity, they believe if in power that she should be stoned.

[Brian Shapiro]

How do we police that? Because not all Muslims think that, by the way. So how do we police something?

[Benjamin Michael]

They can live contrary. They can live contrary to their religion. Yes, yes, but they have to be.

[Brian Shapiro]

All Muslims shouldn't be deported. Then it's a case by case basis and you question them on whether they believe.

[Benjamin Michael]

I'm saying that Islam in general as a religion is not compatible with America. And so therefore if someone is actually abiding by the. Abiding by the doctrines of Islam, then they're incompatible.

[Brian Shapiro]

So it's a moral high ground that you're taking. You think all Muslims.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, because America is a Christian nation. So.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well that's your opinion.

[Benjamin Michael]

No, it's not my opinion. It's in the state constitutions. Okay, well, 11 out of. What does that mean?

[Brian Shapiro]

If I'm not Christian, do I have to believe by Christian.

[Benjamin Michael]

You have to abide by the Christian culture of the country that you're in.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, well, technically you have to abide by the law. And I think that's. That would establish.

[Tim Pool]

And the law is informed by a Christian pre crime.

[Ian Cross]

If you have to deport people based on what you think they might do, that's a.

[Brian Shapiro]

So how do we police that? So do explain to me this. If you're a Muslim living in the United States of America and we're going by your standards, which obviously I disagree with, how do we police whether Muslims have this belief system or not? Because as you know.

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[Brian Shapiro]

Every human being is different every month.

[Benjamin Michael]

A lot of them actually do.

[Brian Shapiro]

Every Christian is.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, I mean a lot of them.

[Brian Shapiro]

So how do we police it? Tell me.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I think that you could. You could easily question. Question Muslims. Hey, do you think that if. Yeah, sure.

[Brian Shapiro]

Law enforcement.

[Benjamin Michael]

Nothing wrong with this. Right. I'm just saying as a concept.

[Brian Shapiro]

And I'm asking you. We go door to door and, and just question Muslims. Do you believe this?

[Benjamin Michael]

This is already downstream from the completion of the remigration plan that I already. That I already laid out. And the, the final layer of it, which I haven't gotten to yet yet was crime. So I believe in a prorated system of crime. So basically, if you're third generation and you commit a violent crime or at least $100,000 in debt or in fraud, you should be automatically deported.

[Brian Shapiro]

What if you're an atheist, you don't believe in God.

[Benjamin Michael]

Can you let me finish?

[Brian Shapiro]

All right, go ahead.

[Tim Pool]

Can't hold office.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Since in state constitutions.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah. So anyways, so third generation, 100,000 in fraud or violent crime. Automatic deportation. Second generation fell. Any felony. Automatic deportation, first generation. I believe if you commit any crime, automatic deportation. So basically that's going to already get rid of a lot of these migrants. Then you can start to deal with these people that. Yeah. Are incompatible With American culture. Do you believe it's compatible if someone, if a Muslim says yes, I believe a 20 year old girl who converts from Islam to Christianity should be stoned to death. Death because she's publicly proclaimed the name of Christ. Do you think that that person should be able to live in America, I think and gain power in America.

[Brian Shapiro]

There's a lot of people that live in America that have some really awful beliefs. But just because you believe something doesn't mean you're going to do it.

[Benjamin Michael]

So you think that that is compatible with American culture.

[Brian Shapiro]

Whether somebody's compatible with American culture or not is. Is not the point. You're asking me a question about it is the point.

[Benjamin Michael]

That's what I'm asking you be deported

[Brian Shapiro]

if you have a belief that you disagree with. And I say absolutely not.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay, well I say absolutely. I say that that is incompatible with American culture. We don. People here in America, you can go back to Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, no, no.

[Benjamin Michael]

We don't do that here.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay? Here we don't stone people. The act of doing it is different than believing.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay, but if they're admitting, if they're admitting when we take power we're going to do this to you, then I don't want you in my country. That, that should not be controversial to me.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's not a reasonable thing to say. That you think that just because a Muslim person might have a radical. And by the way, not all Muslims believe in that stuff. Okay?

[Benjamin Michael]

They do, but they. The hadith for all Sunni Islam. Hadith sahi. Hadith is authoritative to them.

[Brian Shapiro]

I don't know your friends.

[Tim Pool]

I want. Think that I want to read a really funny. Are you able to read that? Is it too far away?

[Ian Cross]

We need.

[Tim Pool]

Might be too far away. Right. Let me, let me, let me, let me, let me zoom in. Make it as big as I can.

[Benjamin Michael]

Is this. What are we talk. What is this? I might know what it is.

[Tim Pool]

Where was it? I just want you to read the.

[Benjamin Michael]

This is. This is Joseph's. This is a story. His story's a commentary on the amendments.

[Tim Pool]

Nope.

[Benjamin Michael]

Oh, okay.

[Ian Cross]

What is it?

[Tim Pool]

Just.

[Phil That Remains]

You can read that line.

[Benjamin Michael]

Or is this one of the constitutions in the state constitution?

[Tim Pool]

Just read the line. Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

That as it is the duty of

[Benjamin Michael]

every man to worship God in such a manner he thinks most acceptable Him. All persons professing the Christian religion are equally entitled to protection in their religious. This might be. Is this the Supreme Court case?

[Tim Pool]

This is. This is the constitution. The original 1776 Constitution of Maryland which states.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, okay.

[Tim Pool]

All those professing a Christian religion are equally entitled to protection and their liberties. The point being, it's just one example example. It goes on to say general equal text in support of the Christian religion. The original state constitutions were like. They had. What were they called? Like, faith tests or whatever.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

In order to hold office, you had to publicly pronounce a faith in the Christian God.

[Brian Shapiro]

Here's what I don't like.

[Benjamin Michael]

Well, I want to read. Wait, before we move on from this, because this is so. Joseph Story was one of the. He's one of the first Supreme Court justices to give a commentary on. On the. On the amendments. He was a Supreme Court justice in the early 1800s. Hundreds, and he gave this commentary on the First Amendment. He said the real object of the amendment was not to countenance, must much less advance Islam or Judaism or infidelity by prostrating Christianity, but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment. So the point of the First Amendment, according to the early founding Fathers, was not to allow for, you know, like, things like Islam that are incompatible. No, it was for Christian unity.

[Tim Pool]

Blasphemy was.

[Benjamin Michael]

Was a crime if there's currently blasphemy laws on the books.

[Tim Pool]

Indeed, indeed. The last Supreme Court ruling, I think, was the 50s. If you went outside in 1790 and said Christ is not king, they could arrest you, criminally charge you, or exile you.

[Brian Shapiro]

So what about atheism? Like, what about people in this country that believe in.

[Benjamin Michael]

You have to abide by the culture of the nation that you are living in. So that means you have to respect. You can't be out, you know, screaming, you know that Christ is talking about how Christ is like burning in. Okay, I don't want to get into that.

[Tim Pool]

I'll give you an example. You can go to Saudi Arabia, but you cannot insult the prophet. You will.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah. North Korea, obviously you can't take down a poster. We know what happened to Otto Warmbier.

[Tim Pool]

And the United States is the most lax and respectful of non Christian religions. His point is just that as a nation founded under Christian moral ethics, people who are non Christians should be deferential to Christian moral ethics.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, maybe back in the day before they spoke English because, like, Muslims in the 1700s were like, foreign as, like, now there are neighbors. So I want to understand radical ideology.

[Benjamin Michael]

If someone says it's not radical, though.

[Ian Cross]

If someone says, I'm going, not every

[Brian Shapiro]

Muslim, if I get to you is.

[Benjamin Michael]

I talk to the. I literally do live streams where I talk to these guys. And I have talk to these guys. I have teenagers that call in. I have, you know, middle aged people that call in.

[Brian Shapiro]

They, that is expensive.

[Benjamin Michael]

80% of them.

[Tim Pool]

Let me tell you a story. You're gonna love this one.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

In 2012, I think it might have been, or 2013 13, YouTube invited me to a special meeting in California to deal with Islamic extremism. They said that one of the problems they had was that particularly in the uk, but in the United States as well, these accounts were popping up of English born and English speaking Muslims trying to radicalize young Muslims to go fight for isis. And they were saying it's become such a problem. We see these stories of people in America, the UK and other countries going to the Middle east to join isis. Isis, how do we stop it? The issue they found was that the, the, the general beliefs of Muslims in the United States, in the west was one for one compatible with isis. The lacking, the lacking issue was a motivation to fight. These videos were coming out again, English speakers from the UK with like a British accent saying, are you really mate, going to stand by what is? People, people are blah, blah, blah. We go to have a caliphate and you know it. And, and they were like, it's working. How do we stop it? So a bunch of, a bunch of people were brought in to talk with YouTube on what were potential solutions for stopping Islamic extremism. And I think they were all miserably bad. One of them, like, they, they, everybody entertained. There was one guy, he was an American Muslim and he had, he had the only solution, I think, but everybody's solution was like, you need to make videos where you explain to these young Muslims why that's wrong actually, and you don't want to join the Catholic caliphate. And I'm sitting here being like, the problem they've identified is that the religious view of ISIS is one for one with the religious view of the Muslims in these countries. What, what the problem is is that these videos are motivating them to go and fight on behalf of it. The only solution that I respected was a guy who said, you need to make a sitcom where the family is Muslim and they don't do Muslim things, things. So it's a family that is a regular American family where the dad has a regular job. They say things that sometimes passively reference that they're Muslim, but they don't espouse these values. That way young Muslims in America integrate with what it means to be American. And I was like, he's the only one who's Right.

[Brian Shapiro]

There are extremes.

[Benjamin Michael]

Not really Muslim. Then that's the point is like then there he's basically telling watered down version of.

[Ian Cross]

Well, he was telling Christians that like don't.

[Tim Pool]

Aren't really Christians.

[Brian Shapiro]

Question. Yeah, what about?

[Phil That Remains]

That's the difference.

[Benjamin Michael]

The difference is one is abiding by their book and the other is not abiding by their book. That's the entire.

[Ian Cross]

I think like 98 of Americans aren't really Christian. They don't, they don't espouse the virtual.

[Benjamin Michael]

Culturally. I would say the vast majority of them are like. They abide by the basic.

[Ian Cross]

What do you mean basic?

[Brian Shapiro]

What does that mean, basic?

[Ian Cross]

I come from the Christian. I don't think Jesus is like family Lord. Like what are you talking about? How would everyone even everyone know that

[Tim Pool]

everyone in this room is only capable of having this conversation because you all abide by Christian moral morals.

[Ian Cross]

Yes, but that doesn't mean I'm a Christian. I don't identify as a Christian.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm not a Christian.

[Benjamin Michael]

Culturally a Christian. That's the point.

[Tim Pool]

Culturally you have to be manipulated by Christianity.

[Ian Cross]

Yes, and I've been born and bred through it. But I am not self identifying Christian.

[Benjamin Michael]

What do you mean manipulated?

[Ian Cross]

I was told like this is good.

[Benjamin Michael]

You want to benefited from it.

[Ian Cross]

I have, yes, I've. I.

[Tim Pool]

Because which would you prefer? Is it better that 10 guilty persons escape than one innocent person suffer? Or can I ask. Can I ask the question? Question?

[Ian Cross]

How about you know my answer.

[Tim Pool]

No, I. Because I didn't finish the question.

[Ian Cross]

Okay, what's your question?

[Tim Pool]

I'm in the middle of talking.

[Ian Cross]

You want to stop me to ask me a question? Bro, I was talking.

[Tim Pool]

Three people are talking. Stop your sentence. I started talking and you jumped in front of me and answered. Okay, I'll ask Brian instead.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, here we go.

[Tim Pool]

I have a question for you.

[Brian Shapiro]

Which one? You guys argue.

[Tim Pool]

Which do you prefer? Is it better that 10 guilty persons escape than one innocent person suffer? Or is it better that 10 innocent persons suffer than one guilty person escape?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, obviously. Define what you mean by escape. What do you mean by escape?

[Tim Pool]

Literal escape. Run away, they're gone.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, obviously I don't want anybody to suffer. So obviously I wouldn't want 10 people to suffer.

[Tim Pool]

So is it better that 10 guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer or 10 innocent persons suffer to prevent one guilty from escaping?

[Brian Shapiro]

That's a really tough question. I don't know.

[Benjamin Michael]

I don't.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's a hard question for me to answer, Tim. I don't know. I don't know. You got me speechless here. I don't know how to answer that. It's, it's very difficult dilemma to be in. If, if that person escapes, how many people are going to suffer?

[Tim Pool]

Who knows?

[Brian Shapiro]

That's the question. Right?

[Tim Pool]

So the point is, the Christian moral ethic is it is better that 10 guilty persons escape than one innocent person suffering suffer. And the founding fathers, Benjamin Franklin particularly expounded upon this by saying it's better than 100 guilty persons escape than one innocent person suffer. And it is of communists and dictators historically, and notably Otto von Bismarck, who said it's better that 10 innocent people suffer than one guilty escape. And so there's a reason why that doesn't work and there's a reason why the Soviet union only lasted 69 years. And this is a Christian moral ethic founded in Blackstone. It's called Blackstone's Formulation. And Blackstone wrote about this. His concept is a summation of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. If there's but one righteous man, I will not destroy these towns. The founding Fathers contemplated this and again, the Bill of Rights, the laws, they're all founded in Christian moral ethics. The founding fathers talked about it and they said it's an interesting point, but you made the point, if 10 guilty persons escape, how many innocent people are going to suffer? Right. So you might get substantially more suffering. Right. And so Benjamin Franklin, a bunch of smart ass mugs are like, you know, how about this? Everybody can have guns, okay? And you will take responsibility if these guilty persons come at you. Yeah. We will not be the ones to torture innocent people. And the logic was written down and it's brilliant. A society that tells the innocent you'll be punished regardless is a society that ends up in lawlessness and corruption out of fear. Fear that even if you're a good person, they will destroy you. A society that tells people we will do everything in our power to preserve the innocent and your rights, even among those who may be guilty, is a society where individuals seek to be as noble as they can be, knowing that the government will work tirelessly to.

[Brian Shapiro]

You believe in the separation between church and state?

[Tim Pool]

I, I don't believe there's such a thing.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, I do.

[Tim Pool]

No, I don't.

[Benjamin Michael]

Founding Fathers didn't believe in it.

[Tim Pool]

There's no such a thing.

[Brian Shapiro]

Are they establishing human beings? So, I mean, you know, okay, but

[Tim Pool]

talking about the founding documents and the principles brought forward, separation of church and state was not a thing. And it's not been a thing in

[Brian Shapiro]

literally now No, I don't. Your belief on that. I don't want policy to be designed by your religion.

[Tim Pool]

It is.

[Phil That Remains]

I will say that depends on the religion.

[Tim Pool]

It's not possible to separate government from religion. Religion is. Is moral philosophy and ideology. And if you take out Christian moral ethics, you'll get some other moral ethic guiding your law. I would prefer the Bill of Rights, Blackstone's formulation, which are founded in Christian moral ethics, over, say, Chinese Communist.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, here's. But here's my problem. Part of my problem with his argument in that. Yes, of course. Radical Islam. Dangerous. It's all bad. I get all that. Okay. But there are. Not every single Muslim doesn't believe in stoning people. Okay. There are Muslims in this country.

[Benjamin Michael]

Majority do Pew research.

[Brian Shapiro]

You can say that. The majority do.

[Ian Cross]

How many people were pulled?

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Benjamin Michael]

What? It's Pew research. You could take it up with the poll three times.

[Ian Cross]

How many people were pulled?

[Benjamin Michael]

There was many different polls. We'd have to pull up the actual specific poll.

[Ian Cross]

Show me one.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay. Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

Is there radical Christians in this country?

[Benjamin Michael]

Laws are there.

[Brian Shapiro]

Are there radical Christians in this country?

[Tim Pool]

Not that.

[Phil That Remains]

Believe in stoning.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah. Believe in stone.

[Brian Shapiro]

Radical Christians. And what do they commit murder?

[Ian Cross]

Well, radical Christians instantiated the. The hunting down of apostates for a thousand years. Radical religion in general.

[Tim Pool]

What are you talking about?

[Ian Cross]

When the Catholic Church went and did the.

[Benjamin Michael]

You're talking about the Spanish inquisition?

[Ian Cross]

The inquisition.

[Tim Pool]

30. 38 Muslims. So they pulled 38,000 out of how many 38,000 Muslims? 80 different languages in 39 countries.

[Benjamin Michael]

Whoa, crazy global.

[Ian Cross]

That's not a US.

[Benjamin Michael]

What was the percentage for aposty Laws in favor?

[Tim Pool]

So let me. I'm. I'm. Right. So at the. I've got the pu.

[Brian Shapiro]

The point that I was trying to make is that there are radicals in every religion.

[Phil That Remains]

The point is. The point that he's making.

[Brian Shapiro]

Every religion.

[Phil That Remains]

The point that.

[Tim Pool]

Wait, hold on, hold on. But none of them support women's rights.

[Phil That Remains]

Ryan, the point that. The point that he's making.

[Brian Shapiro]

So they're all. Myron Gaines. That's what.

[Phil That Remains]

The point that he's making. The point.

[Brian Shapiro]

Myron. I'm okay with that.

[Phil That Remains]

Ryan, the point that everyone is making is it's not radical Muslims. That is the general opinion.

[Ian Cross]

Oh, Ben said that it was American Muslims were mostly radical. Then he pulled a global poll. That's not an American poll.

[Benjamin Michael]

The point that we're making apostasy laws was Muslims in general. I wasn't about talking. Talking just. Just about American Muslims.

[Phil That Remains]

Yeah.

[Benjamin Michael]

And by the way, A lot of them, when they're here, of course, are going to lie. That's actually built into their doctrine. So that's also another problem we have to figure out how to fix. But listen, the reality is 10 out of the top 10 global terrorist index organizations, terrorist organizations in the world, they're all Muslim. They're not Christian. So you could talk about anomalies in Christianity, but that's what they are. They're anomalies. They're outliers. They are.

[Tim Pool]

They.

[Benjamin Michael]

They are extremely rare.

[Ian Cross]

You got to see that the Muslims consider the Christians terrorists. They think the Americans are the terrorists.

[Tim Pool]

That's great.

[Benjamin Michael]

They can do that over in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and uae. We got our countries over here. And they should stay out of them.

[Ian Cross]

But like calling them terrorists because they're the bad guys in your.

[Benjamin Michael]

They're terrorists because they want to stone people.

[Tim Pool]

They all hate suicide bombings, though. They overwhelmingly, in every country reject suicide bombings. That's a good thing. We got. We got to get questions. We got questions. I got to get these questions in. So let's. Let's start here with our good friend swcpt. Question for Brian. If laws are derived from the consent of the. The governed, and the governed cannot change the laws, do those laws need to be followed? Because Brian keeps deriving his argument from the idea that misdemeanors are not a deportable offense. But we know that most Americans want illegal.

[Brian Shapiro]

Never said that. I never said that. Mis.

[Tim Pool]

Let me just finish, then you can.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, go ahead.

[Tim Pool]

So either Brian actually believes objective truth exists embodied in the law and government is derived from that, or he believes that people's feelings about each other is the basis of government. And we. And. And all we can do is give feelings. Legal. Legal weight for a time. Till it changes.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah. So this person has. Did not characterize my opinions correctly. Shocker. I never said that misdemeanors are not a deportable offense. What I did say is, I think. And what my opinion is on that is I think there are better ways as a society we can handle these people. No, I do not believe that. If you committed misdemeanor, I think the best way to handle it. I'm understanding that, yes, that's the law. Right. I don't think the best way to handle this is just to deport every. Everybody. I think it should be a case by case basis. Obviously, most of the country agrees with me that if you're a violent criminal that is in this country illegally, absolutely, you should be deported. And yes, I do believe Democrats, whether it's Tim Waltz or Mayor Frey, whoever it may be. Yes, they should be working with ice. I don't have a problem with that. That if you have people that are in jail, that have committed violent crimes, that are undocumented immigrants, yes, they should be deported. But I also think there are better ways as a society that we can do this. I think pathway to citizenship should be easier. Easier for people that have been this country that haven't committed violent crimes, pay a penalty. I also have always believed in. In the fact that if you're in this country and you're not, you know, you've committed that misdemeanor, you've committed a crime. Listen, 5, 10, 15 years to become a legal citizen. I absolutely believe that's insane. Okay. We need to make it easier, in my personal opinion, for people that are in. That want to come into this country the right way. Way. And they want to do things the right way. They're not bad people. I believe it shouldn't take 15 years. And the bottom line is there's one party in this country that wants to make it more difficult for people to come to this country legally, and then there's another party that wants to make it easier. Yes, I think there are better ways

[Tim Pool]

about it, but it's an extreme. There's. There's either porous border, everybody comes, or it's like we shut down the border and nobody comes at all.

[Brian Shapiro]

I think there has to be some sort of medium there where we need to come to a concept consensus. And, and that's not happening right now. It seems like there's extremes on one side or the other. I'm not saying our borders need to be wide open. I think Joe Biden did a horrible job. I think George W. Bush did a horrible job. I think a lot of presidents, when

[Ian Cross]

you're filling a bucket and it's starting to overflow, you're like, I got to turn the tap off.

[Brian Shapiro]

But I'm never going to.

[Ian Cross]

Well, wait, because you don't want just the bucket to always be empty. You don't want it to overflow.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm a Jewish man. I am never, ever going to generalize an entire group of people and say they all want to stone people. Because that is just.

[Tim Pool]

Nobody said, he makes a good majority. Imagine. Imagine you're. Imagine. Here's the story. You go to. You got to take. You got to take a mad whiz, you know what I mean? Like, man, you're hurting, and so you pull up on the side of the road and there's this old rickety gas station. And you're like, well, I'll take what I can get. Right. You know, like, it's middle of the day. I'm not going to just let loose on the highway. But maybe if you have to. But you go in the bathroom and you're like, okay, so you do your deed and then you're like, I'm going to wash my hands. And you turn the water on, but it's cold and you want to wait for it to get to warm. However, the water is filling up faster than the drain can. Drain, drain. And so at a certain point you're like, oh, crap, I got to turn the water down because too much water is coming in and not enough is going through the drain. That's Ian's point. Ian's correct. There's. There. There is a. There's a happy medium of the level of migration. And right now the sink is overflowing and spilling.

[Ian Cross]

Everywhere you're seeing is people being like,

[Tim Pool]

shut the faucet off.

[Ian Cross]

And you're like, hold on. Leave a trickle going because it's still draining a little. We can find a medium here.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on. I think to your point, the sink is overflowed. You turn the sink off, wait for it to drain a little bit before turning it back on. Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

Immigration is a ho.

[Tim Pool]

We got a. We got a question. This is from Cass Wrath. He says.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

Why is it when you talk about asylum seekers, you ignore the international rules of norm of stopping at the first safe country? Anything further is just an attempt to frame economic migrants who we owe nothing to as refugees.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's not about.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, I agree with that.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's not about necessarily owing something. It's about abiding by our own constitution.

[Tim Pool]

But why, why, like, why should a gu. Do you remember when the Guatemalan Honduran were in Mexico?

[Brian Shapiro]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

And Mexico offered them asylum and they all went, no, and they left.

[Brian Shapiro]

I do remember that.

[Tim Pool]

Support those people.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I want our president and this administration to respect rule of law and what it says in our Constitution.

[Phil That Remains]

What does it say in the Constitution about immigration?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, if we're talking about due process,

[Tim Pool]

it says the executive has the authority over it in international relations unless when something to that effect.

[Brian Shapiro]

So.

[Tim Pool]

And then Congress actually codified under the ina. Actually, I'm sorry, I think it's the other way. I think legislative branch controls the issue of immigration, but gave the rights to the executive branch under the ina, but.

[Phil That Remains]

So there's nothing actually in the Constitution because you've said it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Every person has.

[Phil That Remains]

You said it a couple times. The Constitution says about immigration, but there's nothing actually in there except for that everyone is entitled to due process. And that was my point, which. Which we talked about. Due process doesn't mean some kind of court hearing or anything.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, I never said that. But there are.

[Phil That Remains]

No, I'm just clarifying.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, I never. I never said that every single person has to have a court we. Hearing. I would never make that claim.

[Tim Pool]

We have. We have. We have an important one here from Taylor Lorenz's ex wife, who has a comment, but I will read it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Somebody's ex wife.

[Phil That Remains]

Taylor Lorenzo Renz's ex wife at.

[Tim Pool]

Brian, from last.

[Brian Shapiro]

Last.

[Tim Pool]

Last night's trans discussion. As the Tim Cass community's official trans person, I assure you trans is mental illness. It needs to stay as such to get us our drugs and surgeries. Also, it is gay to suck your girlfriend's dick. So the. The issue with. So there was a big activism thing that happened, like, 10 years ago where a bunch of trans activists were trying to get gender dysphoria removed from the dsm, and prominent organizations immediately came out with statements being like, stop doing. Doing this. Because if transgenderism is not a mental disorder or a prescribable illness, you can't get medication or treatment for it. You get dropped from your insurance. That means at that point, if you go to the hospital, they'll say, you're out of luck. You get nothing. So they need it to be a mental disorder with prescribable treatments.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, I've heard that argument before. I'm not a doctor. I would imagine the person who made that statement probably isn't a medical professional either. Again, it's a case by case basis. Basis. There are. There are certain people that have transgender surgeries. I'm sure they are mentally ill, but they're also.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, but the point is, if you remove.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand. I understand. The insurance.

[Tim Pool]

No one will ever get medicine again. No, no. You can't even bite.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand. And that's a problem. So.

[Tim Pool]

So trans people want it to be a mental disorder.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, I understand that. I understand that, but I'm just speaking that that's.

[Tim Pool]

You're being a transfer when you tell them they're not.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, I don't think I. Listen. I don't think every single person that has transgender surgery is mentally ill. I would imagine some. Some probably are. There's a. But, you know, again, I'm not a doctor.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no. Again, to Clarify.

[Brian Shapiro]

They understand what you're saying.

[Tim Pool]

They're asking the insurance.

[Brian Shapiro]

They're asking it to be.

[Tim Pool]

It's not even insurance. So you're saying they might or might not be mentally ill. They're telling you explicitly they are suffering from a mental disorder. Please stop saying otherwise because you are hurting.

[Ian Cross]

There's the legal definition of is it classified? But then there's also, like, the legit. Is it legitimately some sort of disorder mentally? I mean, I would think always it would be. If you felt like you're in the wrong sex body, that that's some sort of disorder.

[Brian Shapiro]

I hear you, Ian. I just feel like a lot of people on the right are obsessed with transgenders. It seems like every single time there's a mass shooting, they hope that it was from a transgender so they can attack the transgender community. It's. I just think it's. A lot of.

[Tim Pool]

This is politics, man. Like, you know, are you familiar with Coulter's Law?

[Brian Shapiro]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

So this just happened the other day when there was a guy on a bus, and a kid was talking on his phone, and the guy went to the kid, ask him to stop being so loud, and the kid just pulled out a gun and shot and killed him. And they didn't identify any. They said the shooter was wearing a T shirt, shirt, and that was it. And then immediately I was like, coulter's Law, right? And then sure enough, a day later, like, yes, he was born.

[Brian Shapiro]

But, Tim, you're friends with Matt Walsh, right? And I just feel like Matt Walsh is a despicable human being all day long. I'm shocked. All day long. Shocked that you're a Matt Walsh fan.

[Tim Pool]

I think that's great.

[Brian Shapiro]

All day long. What does he do? If he's not attacking black people, which he does on a regular basis, he's attacking transgenders. He's literally made a living attacking. And I ask all of you, how are transgenders negatively affecting you in your life? They're not negatively affecting me. How are they negative? Now, I'm not talking the school and the sports thing. Okay? I agree. Transgender women, I have an answer for you.

[Tim Pool]

Outside of the building that I owned in Martinsburg, they had a drag show with transvestites for children, which is a violation of the law. And I don't want my family anywhere by. For a variety of reasons, which we can go to the larger, moral, philosophical of, I don't want sexualization exposed to my children. Children or my community's children.

[Brian Shapiro]

Talking about drag queen reading or, like, what it was.

[Tim Pool]

It was a sex show. On stage. They set up a stage in the street and don't bring your kids there. I don't want it next to my coffee shop where people are trying to.

[Brian Shapiro]

What are they doing? What were they doing that sexually explicit. What was it?

[Tim Pool]

Booty shaking, Twerking, etc?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, booty shaking could be anywhere. It doesn't have to be a transgender. Somebody could booty.

[Benjamin Michael]

And that's also problematic.

[Tim Pool]

And so my issue, sexual deep things for children.

[Phil That Remains]

I don't want strippers doing it. I don't want. Hey, I don't want strippers doing it in the, in the street either. So there you go. It's. It's, it's.

[Brian Shapiro]

How would you know? Well, first of all, I. Again, I don't think booty shaking is. Is. I don't want my kids to see. Don't have kids.

[Benjamin Michael]

Wait, you're.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on.

[Benjamin Michael]

You're okay with kids watching booty shaking

[Brian Shapiro]

about nudity or what are we talking about?

[Tim Pool]

Let's get the framing right. Let's get the framing right.

[Ian Cross]

Strings.

[Tim Pool]

I don't care about trans people. We have, as I mentioned, we have a Tim cast, official trans person who just asked a question, who has called in numerous times, who we've hung out with. Totally don't give a crap if you're an adult. I think there. I have concerns. I think there's better options for you in terms of, you know, how you can seek to treat the disorder. My concern, and I think most conservatives, I would argue that there's a general. For the average person that are not well versed in policy politics, everything's particularly, particularly surface level. So when they see trans activists and when they see leftists supporting trans rights, when these people do things wrong, it becomes a blanket. For instance, when that guy in the Canadian school had two big fake boobs and said, this is.

[Brian Shapiro]

I remember.

[Tim Pool]

And when we go, hey, stop.

[Brian Shapiro]

Inappropriate. The way he was dressed.

[Tim Pool]

What general leftists say, stop attacking this person. When you get.

[Brian Shapiro]

That was inappropriate because of the dress code.

[Tim Pool]

But. So my point is this. I don't care if a person is trans.

[Brian Shapiro]

We've had.

[Tim Pool]

And I'll use a lot of conservatives do indeed. Because. And again, I share your same opinion. We're framing the framework, framing the point.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So we've had trans people come on this show and I. There was. There was one individual who was like 6 foot 5, very male, very masculine.

[Brian Shapiro]

When I was diagnosed, all I wanted

[Tim Pool]

to do was get back to work.

[Benjamin Michael]

I wanted to get back to that

[Brian Shapiro]

trajectory that I was on prior to the cancer. I Always felt like I had value.

[Benjamin Michael]

I had a place on the team.

[Brian Shapiro]

To just be treated with dignity, it means everything. Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery. We can make work a better place

[Amica Insurance Ad Voice]

for healing, learn more and sign the [e-mail] what's that?

[Tim Pool]

I'm Shihar. I said, you got it. You wanna come on my show? Well, you know, if you're gonna be nice to me, I'll be nice to you.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

And. And the issue then becomes, you get someone. Like, I'm not going to name the person, but there was a fat man claiming to be trans going into girls bathrooms and taking pictures of little girls.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, that's a crime.

[Tim Pool]

And no, because they were protected under the law. Because trans activists got the laws passed.

[Brian Shapiro]

Wait, taking pictures of people in the restroom is legal?

[Tim Pool]

That's not a crime.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well, that should be a crime.

[Tim Pool]

And now you agree with us 100%.

[Brian Shapiro]

Listen, if you're. I don't. Straight, gay, trans, not trans.

[Benjamin Michael]

But notice how it wasn't a problem until trans people entered the picture.

[Tim Pool]

That's the point that the issue. Is this the issue?

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on. It's not. What are you talking about? You're saying straight people and Christian people can't commit a crime in a bathroom.

[Benjamin Michael]

Well, what he's saying is that this became a problem that literally the law wasn't able to deal with after the. I bet who did it before then probably got processed.

[Phil That Remains]

No, no, no.

[Benjamin Michael]

This is no issues.

[Tim Pool]

This is the point. If a. If. If. If Phil walks into a girl's bathroom and snaps pictures of little girls, he's getting arrested. But if Phil puts on a wig and a dress and does it, he

[Brian Shapiro]

says, well, that's insane.

[Phil That Remains]

I hate everything about this.

[Tim Pool]

That's what we are complaining about.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, that's a problem.

[Tim Pool]

But that's so we agree.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's what you're complaining about. That's what you're complaining about. Matt Walsh attacks transgenders every day on there and mocks transgenders. And he.

[Tim Pool]

And that's money.

[Brian Shapiro]

He makes money doing that. And that's biggest.

[Benjamin Michael]

He attack. Like, what does he do to attack them?

[Brian Shapiro]

Do I really need to find attack. Do I really need to explain to you that the guy writes books on how horrible.

[Benjamin Michael]

You just ask what a woman.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, that was a. I see him doing. He wrote a children's book that was very neutral. It was very much like, which one did he write where? It was like, don't be the wrong animal. Or something.

[Brian Shapiro]

Have you seen his Twitter Twitter feed?

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, his Twitter feed's great. I love his Twitter feed.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's very Christian of you. Very Christian of you.

[Tim Pool]

I can only tell you people because

[Brian Shapiro]

of their sexuality or because they're transgender.

[Benjamin Michael]

Allow me to tell you how to practice your religion.

[Tim Pool]

Okay. Okay. But I got to say this. I got to say this. It's the final thing before we wrap up, and I got to say it. Okay. You show me tweets where you're insulting conservatives.

[Brian Shapiro]

Absolutely.

[Tim Pool]

You've made jokes. And I laugh.

[Brian Shapiro]

Absolutely.

[Tim Pool]

And I do.

[Brian Shapiro]

Absolutely.

[Tim Pool]

And Matt Walsh makes jokes, and I laugh at them, too.

[Brian Shapiro]

Too.

[Tim Pool]

So you're mad at Matt Walsh for being vitriolic and saying these things. You are vitriolic in your own way. But, but for me, jokes are jokes. And so when you make jokes that are at the expense of conservative groups or Christians or whatever, if it's a funny joke, I'm gonna laugh at it. If, if Matt Walsh does the same thing about black people or trans people, I'm gonna laugh at it too. I'm an equal opportunity offender. I, I, I like watching Ben Bankus. He'll make fun of Ryan Long or Dave Chappelle. Like, you want to make a joke and rag on somebody.

[Benjamin Michael]

I ain't.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not going to complain about it. If you get up on stage and just start insulting and attacking and you're.

[Brian Shapiro]

And you're.

[Tim Pool]

And you're vitriolic, well, I might be like, chill out, bro.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's what Matt Walsh does. We're talking about a joke.

[Tim Pool]

I think they're meant to be facetious.

[Brian Shapiro]

Every day attacks transgenders and black people.

[Tim Pool]

Does he?

[Brian Shapiro]

Every day.

[Ian Cross]

Does he go after the individuals or does he go after transgenderism?

[Brian Shapiro]

He goes after times. He goes after individuals.

[Tim Pool]

Whether it be pulling up Matt Walsh's X account.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Benjamin Michael]

Oh, y.

[Brian Shapiro]

Go ahead.

[Ian Cross]

Long time, Maddie.

[Brian Shapiro]

In fact, I went after him, and then it was really weird. He retweeted me the other day and didn't respond to it. It was very strange.

[Ian Cross]

Great, though.

[Tim Pool]

One on one's like, don't do it. Benjamin's like, let's go.

[Ian Cross]

He's serious, but he's subversive. Very funny.

[Tim Pool]

So he's an asshole. He's an asshole. Here we go.

[Ian Cross]

He said he looked very.

[Tim Pool]

All right, let me read one. Wow. I thought it was wrong for him to stab a kid to death, but now that I see these videos of Carmelo smiling and stuff, I've realized that actually he should have been allowed to murder whoever he wanted I apologize for my error. Just.

[Brian Shapiro]

Just stupid. Just stupid.

[Ian Cross]

If you know him, it's a lot more like, oh, that's Matt. Like, you. Like. Like Borat.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. These are. These aren't even racial. I want to find one that's like. Okay, here we go. The most hilarious mythology on the left is that black women are quiet martyrs forced to carry the burden of the whole human race on their courageous shoulders. Totally divorced from reality. But you hear it all the time from these people. Well, he's criticizing the left about black people. He didn't say anything.

[Brian Shapiro]

Ask you a question, since you think that's. That that's funny. Like, if somebody made a joke about priests molesting children, would you all also joke. Would you laugh about that, sir?

[Benjamin Michael]

Well, priests don't disproportionately molest children.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, but they have in the past.

[Benjamin Michael]

Would you be a dumb joke? No, they actually. Teachers.

[Tim Pool]

But hold on. See how there's no problem with defensive.

[Brian Shapiro]

You guess?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, defensive.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, no, but that's not true. It hasn't happened.

[Benjamin Michael]

It's Catholic priests, anyway. I'm not Catholic.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So those cat. I don't know. What are you Orthodox? Oh, there it is.

[Benjamin Michael]

I'm saying I'm orthodox.

[Brian Shapiro]

If we made it, we had Bible thumpers, right?

[Tim Pool]

We had an orthodox Catholic laugh about that.

[Brian Shapiro]

He wouldn't think that's funny. But if it's a joke about a black person, the first thing you do is laugh.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, we had a debate, but there's truth behind racist.

[Benjamin Michael]

The point.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, well, okay.

[Tim Pool]

Well, okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

Children.

[Tim Pool]

Okay. Clergy.

[Brian Shapiro]

Haven't they.

[Tim Pool]

We had a truth. We had a. We had an orthodox versus Catholic debate, and it was the hottest. Like, you think this is agitated. Like, these people were screaming and like.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, it was Tim Gordon and J. Right.

[Tim Pool]

And I think so. And they're like, reading Latin, and I'm like, this is wild.

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, I think it was.

[Brian Shapiro]

What do you think about black people, bro?

[Benjamin Michael]

What do I think about.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, just in general.

[Tim Pool]

I like black.

[Benjamin Michael]

I think black people are created in the image of God. God. And I think that they disproportionately commit violent crime. That's just so.

[Brian Shapiro]

So. So the first thing he brings up, black people committing crimes. So the first thing was the image of God.

[Benjamin Michael]

In the image of God. Actually, you just lied about what I said. I said the f. The first thing I said is that they're created in the image of God.

[Brian Shapiro]

And what was the second thing you said?

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, they. Is it true or false that they disproportionately Commit violent crime. Is that a true or false statement?

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons for that.

[Benjamin Michael]

Okay, yeah. What? And yeah, socioeconomic.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no. In Chicago, it's because, like, you insulted, assaulted them.

[Benjamin Michael]

No, I'm, I'm refusing because this is what they say, like, socioeconomic.

[Ian Cross]

In Chicago, slaves, they didn't have education, nutrition. So, like.

[Tim Pool]

But that's not true right now in Chicago.

[Ian Cross]

Seven generations removed, you know, so.

[Tim Pool]

So that's not true right now in Chicago. They've got clean running water, they got showers, they got houses. They live in a major massive metro in the wealthiest country on the planet, and they kill each other over insults.

[Ian Cross]

But, like, their grandparents didn't. A lot of times didn't have. Sorry to interrupt.

[Tim Pool]

But they did. Listen, I. I have a buddy. I have a buddy from Chicago. I have a buddy from Chicago. He's black. And one of the greatest days, man. It was amazing. Amazing. It was, it was 2008 and we were skating and I'm sitting down and it's. I think it's his grandma. She goes, are you going to vote for Obama? And he goes, I don't know. And she goes, you gotta vote for Obama. He could be the first black president. And he goes, does that mean he's a good president? And I was like, man, I fist bumped him. Like, that's what I'm talking about. We, like, I don't care if he's black, white or otherwise. That's how, that's how me and my friends were. I didn't care about my friends was black. He was my friend. He didn't care that I was Asian, white.

[Brian Shapiro]

Everybody thinks, unfortunately, I agree.

[Tim Pool]

And fuck those people. Them.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, I agree.

[Tim Pool]

And so when they say we want the president just because he's black, me and my friends of various racial backgrounds were like, I don't want to live

[Brian Shapiro]

in that world, dude. Well, I think a lot of black people that, that said that it was an emotional time for them because they never thought in their lifetime that they would see a black president. So for them, it was a, you know, historical.

[Tim Pool]

We are, we are over. We are over, over time. So I know much more to come. But, but we're, we're. We got, we got much more planned. We're actually planning on a culture war live show tour. So it's, it's the new year. We're planning on bringing the shows we did last year. We're going to do them again this year. It's all getting set up. It'll be a lot of Fun. So we'll get more of this going. We're going to go for another three or four hours on all these subjects and it's a lot of fun, but we are over time. So smash the like button. Share the show. Subscribe Follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast. Benjamin, you want to shout anything out?

[Benjamin Michael]

Yeah, I'm just at Real Ben Michael on all platforms, primarily x, Instagram and YouTube. I'm live every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, 2 o' clock for my show American Orthodoxy over there where I go over politics and religion, talk about Israel, immigration and Christianity in culture.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm Brian Shapiro. I do not think that all Muslims are terrorists. My. I'm at.

[Tim Pool]

Follow me at not all Muslims

[Brian Shapiro]

at PTL radio show on YouTube. Pushingthelimits live is my website. Facebook fan page. Pushing the Limits. I do a show Monday through Friday, Friday. And this is day two on, on, on, on. Tim Cast. I can't believe it.

[Ian Cross]

It was a hot day too, because

[Tim Pool]

you were in town yesterday. And he was like, I'm actually in town. All right. I was like, yeah, sure, whatever. I guess that's rock.

[Ian Cross]

Ian Cross on.

[Brian Shapiro]

That was a more calm Brian Shapiro today than yesterday.

[Ian Cross]

Was it? Was it? We'll have to review the tape to find out.

[Tim Pool]

I want to say, like, Brian's kind of playing the heel and trying to be antagonistic intentionally. And then today he was like, did I do too much? And I'm like, I just do whatever you want to do. I think people. I mean, obviously Brian's opinions are. His opinions, sure. But he tried. I think Brian's trying to be. I don't know if the right word is but.

[Brian Shapiro]

Spicy.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. He's trying to poke and as I said, needling you kneeling. He's like, you know, he's trying.

[Brian Shapiro]

When you needle someone at the Pokemon.

[Benjamin Michael]

Now, I know if I say something in the car that Brian's going to bring it up in the show. Now I got.

[Tim Pool]

Anyway, anyway, anyway.

[Ian Cross]

Well, you know me. Follow me on the Internet, baby. Bill Obonte, talk me out.

[Phil That Remains]

I am Phil that Remains on Twix. The band is all that remains. You can check out our music on Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, YouTube, Spotify and Deezer. We are playing the warp tour in D.C. this Sunday. You can get your tickets@warp tour.com. i got a new piece up on my Patreon. It's patreon.com Phillit remains. Don't forget the left lane is for crime.

[Brian Shapiro]

He didn't even offer me free tickets. Very upsetting. He knows I'm in town. Didn't even offer me tickets. It's very upsetting.

[Phil That Remains]

To be fair, I didn't offer anyone free tickets because it's a festival, so.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, fair enough. No backstage passes. Nothing.

[Tim Pool]

Not for the f. G. Man, you talk so much. And really great. I. I had to play Ian's lower third, like, three times, like, going back and forth. No, man, this.

[Brian Shapiro]

These are the last.

[Tim Pool]

These last two episodes were, like, probably

[Brian Shapiro]

two of my favorite ones.

[Tim Pool]

Really? I didn't even say anything, so I

[Ian Cross]

was like, wow, there's just so much going on around.

[Tim Pool]

Anyway, I'm Carter banks. You can follow me at Carter banks. Everywhere at Carter banks. Official, everywhere else. Labels, trash, house records on YouTube. New song coming out on juneteenth.

[Ian Cross]

And yeah, go check out the trail trailer, Tim.

[Tim Pool]

We'll make sure to get some more in episodes in the future. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you all next time.