GOP Rep Demands Citizenship STRIPPED From Dems Zohran Mamdani, NYC Mayor w/ Billy Binion

Summary

Timcast IRL Episode Summary
Title: GOP Rep Demands Citizenship STRIPPED From Dems Zohran Mamdani, NYC Mayor w/ Billy Binion
Release Date: June 27, 2025
Host: Tim Pool
Guests: Billy Binion, Mary Morgan, Phil Labonte

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Introduction

In this episode of Timcast IRL, Tim Pool delves into the controversial call by Republican Representative Andy Ogles to denaturalize Zohran Mamdani, a Democratic mayoral candidate in New York City. Joining Pool are guests Billy Binion, Mary Morgan, and Phil Labonte, who engage in a robust discussion surrounding issues of citizenship, immigration, and governmental overreach.

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Call for Denaturalization of Zohran Mamdani

Background:
Zohran Mamdani's victory in the Democratic primary for NYC Mayor has sparked significant backlash from Republican circles. Representative Andy Ogles has publicly demanded that Mamdani be stripped of his U.S. citizenship, citing alleged sympathies with Hamas.

Legal Grounds:
Ogles bases his demand on 8 U.S.C. § 1451(a), which allows for denaturalization if citizenship was obtained through material misrepresentation or concealment of support for designated terrorist organizations.

Discussion Highlights:

• Billy Binion's Stand:
  At [05:06], Billy Binion expresses strong opposition to Ogles' demand:
  “I hate this stuff. I absolutely hate it.”
  He emphasizes the First Amendment concerns, arguing that denaturalizing someone based solely on their speech infringes upon free expression.

• First Amendment Concerns:
  Binion elaborates on the importance of protecting even unsavory speech:
  “If the right wants to claim to stand for free speech, they have to also stand for speech that is really unsavory. That is the point of the First Amendment.” [09:11]

• Legal Interpretations:
  The group debates whether Mamdani's statements truly constitute material support for terrorism or if they fall under protected political speech.

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Immigration Laws and Enforcement

Illegal vs. Legal Immigration:
The conversation shifts to broader immigration policies, with a focus on the distinction between legal and illegal immigration and the role of sanctuary cities.

Property Rights and Public vs. Private Property:

• Debate on Collective Ownership:
  Ian Crossland raises philosophical questions about property rights and national ownership:
  “Why should Americans have to share anything with non-citizens who came here?” [19:53]

• Billy Binion's Perspective:
  Binion counters by highlighting the historical context of America as a melting pot and opposes the notion that only “native” Americans deserve the country’s resources:
  “There are some people who are Americans by choice. And that is a powerful thing. They came here because of what America stands for.” [22:41]

Sanctuary Cities and Mamdani’s Policies:
Mamdani's proposals to make NYC a sanctuary city for immigrants and the LGBTQ community are scrutinized. Phil Labonte criticizes the potential for increased gender-based medical procedures on minors, reflecting deep concerns about policy implications.

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Related Immigration and Deportation Stories

Deportation Act 2 – Kilmar Abrego Garcia Case:

• Complex Deportation Process:
  The episode discusses the convoluted deportation case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, highlighting the inefficiencies and legal battles involved. Tim Pool expresses frustration with the bureaucratic hurdles:
  “Why are we doing this? Why can't human beings just go, guys, we're just going to deport him and just cut through the whole thing.” [42:53]

• Prosecutorial Overreach:
  Billy Binion criticizes the administration's handling of deportation policies, suggesting that legal inconsistencies undermine effective enforcement:
  “I would argue that the Trump administration has made a strategic blunder by sticking to cases like this.” [46:46]

Use of Sedition Charges Against Political Figures:
A heated debate ensues regarding the potential for charging political figures like Mamdani with sedition if they defy federal immigration laws. Crossland argues that such actions constitute an "invasion" and violation of federal law, while Binion remains skeptical about the applicability and enforcement of sedition charges in these contexts.

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AI and Posthumous Social Media Personas

Rep. Jerry Connolly’s Posthumous Tweets:

• AI Personas:
  The episode explores the emerging trend of creating AI-driven social media personas of deceased individuals. Tim Pool highlights instances where lawmakers' accounts began posting endorsements after their passing, raising ethical and legal questions.

• Guest Reactions:
  Phil Labonte and Billy Binion express discomfort and ethical concerns regarding the use of AI to represent deceased persons, emphasizing the potential for misuse and the erosion of personal legacy.

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Impact of Technology on Child Development

Rise of "iPad Babies":

• Developmental Concerns:
  The discussion shifts to the detrimental effects of excessive screen time on young children. Guests lament the increasing number of toddlers possessing personal tablets and smartphones, citing delayed speech and motor skills development.

• Expert Recommendations vs. Parental Choices:
  Tim Pool references a Common Sense Media report showing that “40% of toddlers today, by age 2, have a personal tablet” [73:05]. Phil Labonte emphasizes the long-term negative impacts, advocating for reduced screen time and increased physical interaction.

• Generational Perspectives:
  The guests contrast older generations who interacted with technology in a more controlled manner with Gen Z, who are growing up with pervasive digital devices. Billy Binion shares personal experiences of childhood technology usage versus current trends.

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Conclusion and Upcoming Events

The episode concludes with announcements about upcoming events, including the Culture War Live comedy series in Washington D.C., featuring debates between figures like Michael Malice and Angry Cops. Tim Pool encourages listeners to engage with the show through social media and attend the live events.

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Notable Quotes

• Billy Binion on Free Speech and Denaturalization:
  “If the right wants to claim to stand for free speech, they have to also stand for speech that is really unsavory.” [09:11]

• Ian Crossland on Sedition:
  “Let me ask you guys, do you know what percentage of New York City is white?” [51:37]

• Phil Labonte on AI and Relationships:
  “I think people are already doing this on Instagram with the Chat with AI feature. You can just create one that’s based on you and it will like take all your photos and stuff and create...” [60:43]

• Tim Pool on Child Development:
  “I think Gen Z parents are going to have a better approach to this. And every time that you talk about this issue, you will get bombarded with mainly millennial parents telling you, you have no idea how difficult it is to raise a child without constant screen time.” [75:14]

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Takeaways

• The push to denaturalize political figures like Zohran Mamdani underscores deep political divisions and raises significant legal and ethical questions about citizenship and freedom of speech.
• Immigration policies remain a contentious issue, with debates centering on legality, property rights, and the role of sanctuary cities.
• The integration of AI in representing deceased individuals and its implications for personal legacy and ethical boundaries are emerging concerns.
• The pervasive use of technology among young children poses serious developmental challenges, prompting calls for reduced screen time and increased physical interaction.

Stay tuned for more uncensored discussions and in-depth analysis on Timcast IRL.

Transcript

[Tim Pool]

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[Ian Crossland]

With Zoran Mamdani's tremendous win in New York in the Democratic primary. It's become the news, and this guy's profile is skyrocketing. And now Rep. Andy Ogles is saying he should be denaturalized, stripped of his citizenship, and deported because it appears that before he attained citizenship, he had expressed sympathies for Hamas, a designated terrorist organization. Now, it's an interesting, albeit aggressive, maneuver, but there is a question about when we actually plan to enforce the laws we have codified in the United States about, well, quite literally, you're not allowed to support terrorist groups or certain, you know, adversaries. United States when you're applying for citizenship, that is in the law. But we typically never go near that because it seems a bit, well, aggressive. But this is just the, the beginning. Democrats at the national level level are said to be freaking out. Axios has his whole report about how they're melting down over the victory of a Democratic Socialist in New York. Certainly this man's victory has sent shock waves across this country. And, oh, boy, it'll be interesting. So we do have a bunch of other stories. We've got an alleged Iranian sniper sleeper agent arrested. This story seemed to go under the radar because of the Iranian strikes. We also have Australia deploying troops into Ukraine. Everybody seemed to miss that. So interesting to say the least. We'll talk about that and, and what's going on before we get started. We got a great sponsor. It's everybody's favorite, MyPillow. Go to MyPillow.com Tim. Use promo code Tim. And you can not only buy pillows. Do you think that's all Mike Lindell has in store for you? He's got the MyPillow mattress, the mattress topper. He's got Giza dream bed sheets, got towel sets. And I'm going to, I'm going to go heavy on endorsing this Rev7 energy drink they sell because we actually have a ton of this. And I just ordered like, I think I ordered like 30 cases of it. It is a caffeine free, sugar free energy drink and it's ketone powered, so it's no sugar. Not only do they taste really, really good, it's kind of wild because there's no caffeine. But it works. It works. I'm a big fan of that. So head over to MyPillow.com and use promo code Tim when you purchase all the goods. Mike Lindell put a lot on the line for everything that he believed in for Trump, for the movement, tremendous respect. They tried to take it all away from him, but we are here and he's sponsoring our show. We do appreciate it. And my friends, we got big news. We've got at the comedy dcc comedyloft.com the Culture War Live. Saturday, July 26, August 2 and August 9. Tickets are now available. They're all at 3pm These are live tapings of the Culture War Show August 2. So the only one we can announce formally as of now because of confirmations is August 2nd will be Michael Malice and Angry Cops and having the cop debate. Malice, of course, anti cop angry Cops, of course, a literal cop and they're both really funny guys. So this is probably going to be the wildest and funniest show. It's two hours, it's three to five in D.C. tickets are available. I believe they're $30. However, if you go to Timcast.com and you are a member of our Discord server, there are reserved tickets for free. So for all of our existing members, make sure you grab them up. Now I think we have 30 designated tickets for our members and we're going to have special, we have something special planned for our elite members as well. But if you go to timcast.com you can get tickets to the event and if you're not a member you can become one or you can just buy tickets. So don't forget to also smash that like button. Share the show with literally everyone you know, even your baby child who's sitting there in the crib and can't speak yet. Just say we're going to watch Tim cast IRL and we'll try to keep it family friendly. But again, smash that like button. Share the show. Joining us tonight to talk about this and everything more, we got Billy Binion.

[Billy Binion]

Thanks for having me.

[Ian Crossland]

Who are you? What do you do?

[Billy Binion]

So I'm a reporter at Reason Libertarian magazine. Usually write about civil liberties, criminal justice, government accountability, a lot of legal issues. Happy to be here.

[Ian Crossland]

Right on. Thanks for joining us. Mary is here tonight hello everyone.

[Tim Pool]

My name is Mary Morgan. I co host Pop Culture Crisis here at Timcast and and I'm glad to be back.

[Phil Labonte]

Hello everybody. My name is Phil Labonte. I'm the lead singer of the heavy metal band all that Remains. I'm an anti communist and counter revolutionary. Let's get into it.

[Ian Crossland]

Here's a story from the Post Millennial Rep. Andy Ogles calls for investigation into Zoran Mandani's naturalization over potential support for terrorism. He calls for an investigation over potential willful misrepresentation or concealment of material support for terrorism. This is pretty wild. So we've got this Libs of TikTok says Holy crap. Calling for the denaturalization and deportation of Democrat mayoral nominee Zoran Mamdani Writing Dear Attorney General Bondi, I write to request that the Department of Justice open investigation into whether Zoran Kwame Mamdani, who he called Little Muhammad by the way, currently a candidate for mayor of New York City, should be subject to denaturalization proceedings under 8 U.S.C. 1451 a on the grounds that he may have procured U.S. citizenship through willful misrepresentation or concealment of material support for terrorism. According to public reports on including a June 21, 2025 New York Post article, Mr. Mamdani expressed open solidarity with individuals convicted of terrorism related offense prior to becoming a US citizen. Specifically, he wrapped quote Free the Holy Land 5/my guys. The Holy Land foundation was convicted in 2008 of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization. Publicly praising the Foundation's convicted leadership as My Guys raises serious concerns about whether Mr. Mamdani held affiliations or sympathies in he failed to disclose during the naturalization process. While I understand that some may raise First Amendment concerns about taking legal action based on expressive conduct such as rap lyrics, speech alone does not preclude accountability where it reasonably suggests underlying conduct relevant to eligibility for naturalization. If an individual publicly glorifies a group convicted of financing terrorism, it is entirely appropriate for federal authorities to inquire whether the individual engaged in non public forms of support, such as organizational affiliation, fundraising, or advocacy that would have required disclosure on Form N400 or during a naturalization interview. Moreover, Mr. Mamdani has recently refused opportunities to reject pro terrorist rallying cry to globalize the Intifada, a call to expand violent attacks on civilians to the United States and around the world. While political speech in isolation is not dispositive in light of earlier expressions of or ad of admiration for individuals convicted of supporting Terrorists, terrorism. A troubling pattern emerges that warrants formal scrutiny. The naturalization process depends on the good faith disclosure or any affiliation with support for groups that threaten US national security. If Mamdani concealed relevant associations, that concealment may constitute material misrepresentation sufficient to support denaturalization. Under federal law, the federal government must uphold public trust by ensuring that citizenship is not granted under false pretenses. Respectfully urge the Department of Justice to determine the whether Mr. Mamdani's conduct prior to naturalization warrants formal review under applicable law. And I'll say it first, I'm for it. Investigate him 100%.

[Phil Labonte]

The investigation. I don't have any problem with the idea of, well, look, the further to the extremes you go when you're discussing. When it comes to political speech, the further to the extremes you go when it. When you. According to your ideology, the more likely you are to engage in violent rhetoric. And Mamdani does walk the line. Anyone that says globalize the intifada, they're at least skirting the line.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not trying to be contrarian, but it was just that he failed to denounce something or other. Like it was other people chanting that and they said that he didn't denounce it, which I think is a global. Did he say, we'll play where they say, like, why didn't you denounce, well, murder? Like, why didn't you condemn Hamas?

[Ian Crossland]

Like a little more than that.

[Tim Pool]

The, the condemnation is kind of just implicit.

[Ian Crossland]

No matter what he was. He was asked in an interview what he thought about phrases like globalize the intifada. And he said, well, you know, it means different things to different people. And some people think it means like a peaceful revolution.

[Phil Labonte]

So, yeah, see, but even that's. That's skirting. That's trying to be deceptive. That's not trying to be fulsome. That's not actually addressing the concern that people have when they ask that question. He's trying to skirt the issue. He's trying to not.

[Billy Binion]

Yeah, he's a politician now, but I would just say I hate this stuff. I absolutely hate it. I think for a couple reasons. For one, I think there is a real First Amendment issue with denaturalizing someone because we don't like what they say. I mean, saying my love to you guys. I don't really know that he thought that much about it. It was in a rap video. And I also hate it because I think that these kind of stunts for, for one, it's not going to be successful. And for two, it's going to galvanize his supporters. And I think there are a lot of reasons to really dislike this mayoral candidate. He's anathema to a lot of the things I stand for. But Nancy Mace is already out here taking a poll on her ex profile saying, implying that she thinks that it's a decent proposal. And I think it ends up making a martyr out of him. And I think that's very unwise. Going back to my first point, though, I think if the right wants to claim to stand for free speech, they have to also stand for speech that is really unsavory. That is the point of the First Amendment and that's the point of a principle. If you don't apply it when it's inconvenient, then it doesn't matter. It's not a principle.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, so there's two things.

[Ian Crossland]

Was that on her personal profile? Just sorry, real quick, I want to.

[Billy Binion]

Put, I think that the one where she's wearing the pink dress. So yeah, that would be her, her civilian profile. Should we, should we. She's taking a poll right now for her followers.

[Phil Labonte]

So there's two things about this that, that I want to at least make a comment about. First of all, the guy that's actually been talking about denaturalizing and deporting him, he's calling him Little Mohammed. And that actually hurt, that kind of hurts the argument because then it seems.

[Tim Pool]

Like, pardon me, is he calling is Muslim?

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Because just because he's Muslim.

[Phil Labonte]

So, and whatever your opinion on that kind of, that kind of rhetoric, you're going to galvanize the people against you. You're going to call, they're going to call him a racist, blah, blah, blah.

[Tim Pool]

He shouldn't be saying the nickname like that. I don't know, thinks that he's doing the Trump thing and he's not doing.

[Billy Binion]

I think he wants followers on social media. Followers on social media. That's, that's maybe.

[Ian Crossland]

Or he's trying to get what I think the city in the US with the largest Jewish population is New York.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

And so that kind of branding, when that story drops and they say Rep. Ogles is a racist for calling him Little Mohammed, that's going to, that's going to penetrate deeper into communities in New York, especially Jewish communities, which I think the intention is to try and get them to come out and vote against them.

[Billy Binion]

Sure. And I mean, I will say I disagree with this guy's, what I know of this guy's stance towards the pro Israel Palestine discussion. But I don't know, like I said, I just, I really do feel like this ends up backfiring. And I mean, what's the point?

[Ian Crossland]

I disagree.

[Billy Binion]

And I also say, I'll say this, the mayoral election, a local election, I know New York City is an enormous place, but it becoming a referendum on foreign policy doesn't really make sense to me. I know. I understand Jewish voters wanting to at least have knowledge of someone that they, you know, whose character they like. But the mayor of New York has no say on foreign policy. It seems almost kind of silly that we're, that we're as a nation, we're looking to him to be a thought leader on this when we should be talking about, I mean, how he's going to lead New York City, which are plenty of things he's going to do to New York City that are really bad.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't think anybody has any expectation of him engaging in foreign policy. I think the argument, because like a.

[Tim Pool]

Lot of the rhetoric that he's using on social media and on his campaign website is talking about issues that go and reach far beyond the city, even though he knows that there's no possibility of follow through on that.

[Billy Binion]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

Like I'm going to be a candidate that stands up to Trump.

[Ian Crossland]

Let's.

[Tim Pool]

That doesn't mean anything. You're running for mayor. Well, it's an important.

[Ian Crossland]

No, it does. It does. High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a sofa personal loan.

[Billy Binion]

A Sofi personal loan could repackage your.

[Ian Crossland]

Bad debt into one low fix rent rate monthly payment.

[Billy Binion]

It's even got super speed since you.

[Ian Crossland]

Could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more. That's s o f I.com P-O-W-E-R loans.

[Billy Binion]

Originated by SoFi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply.

[Ian Crossland]

NMLs 696891 mean something when he says that they're going to obstruct immigration enforcement and obstruct.

[Tim Pool]

That is one thing he said, like we want to make this into a sanctuary city for, for immigrants. And also he said that he wanted it to be an LGBTQ sanctuary, which.

[Phil Labonte]

Literally just means so that if you can, if you're underage and can get to the, get to New York City, they will perform all kinds of gender mutilation on you.

[Ian Crossland]

So here's a question for you guys. Here's an anti Macy's poll. Should Zoran Mandani be denaturalized and deported. Yes. No, not sure. What do you think? One, which one do you think is winning? I think yes.

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Billy Binion]

So I think yes. I would vote no if I could.

[Ian Crossland]

All right, so what's, what's the votes in the room? You say no, you say Mary.

[Tim Pool]

I already voted yes.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay. You voted yes. Yeah. What say you, Phil?

[Phil Labonte]

Yes, for being a communist, not for anything else. Oh, literally only because of his ideology. I don't care.

[Tim Pool]

Yes, because he's not American and has no right to be here.

[Billy Binion]

Well, he isn't.

[Ian Crossland]

I mean, because he's a citizen. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. I just don't believe that he is meaningfully American more than someone who was.

[Billy Binion]

I fully. I reject the idea that the only way you can be American is by being born here. I think all of us, we won the geographic lottery. I'm, I like, I like what America stands for, but I think there's something.

[Tim Pool]

Powerful about because we didn't, we didn't.

[Billy Binion]

Do anything by being born here.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. So. So we, we didn't earn it.

[Billy Binion]

Right, Exactly.

[Phil Labonte]

Right.

[Billy Binion]

So I should chose to come here and that should be celebrated.

[Tim Pool]

Acting like, you know, your soul is like a, it's like a die that gets rolled into the universe. And that's not actually how that works. It's not a lottery. Because you, your ancestors actually did make the effort to come here. They did make the effort to build lives here for generations. And you are the result of that. There's nothing random about it.

[Billy Binion]

Well, but it wasn't my agency. And so I'm saying I think I'm an American and I like America and like I said, what it stands for. But I think there is something powerful about, you know, there's been a lot of talk right now that America or that New York City specifically has a big foreign born population, which I'll make a couple of points for one, that's not new. I mean, Ellis island, it has always represented, you know, kind of this, this melting pot and a promise of opportunity. And I think that is a good thing.

[Tim Pool]

And so if somebody wants to conflate immigration now, hold on, hold on. 65 with post.

[Ian Crossland]

All right, Not. This is, this is important, though. No one here did anything to earn what this country.

[Billy Binion]

That's what I'm saying.

[Ian Crossland]

And that's why I deserve your stuff when you die, not your children. Your children should get nothing from you. The state should seize everything you built in your life, and I get to have it.

[Billy Binion]

Do you believe that you do? No, I don't.

[Ian Crossland]

You Certainly you just argue that people who aren't from here can have all the stuff that the Americans built.

[Billy Binion]

I. That's not at all what I argue.

[Ian Crossland]

So if like my dad builds a baseball field and then someone comes and they're not from here, I should have no right to the public, to the commons that my family and ancestors built because we didn't earn it. We were just born here.

[Billy Binion]

I'm talking specifically about people who come here. I mean there's like.

[Ian Crossland]

Who built the Brooklyn Bridge?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I am not. But I wouldn't take credit for it.

[Ian Crossland]

I think it was the Brooklyn Bridge Corporation.

[Billy Binion]

To me, that's a. That's an analogy that doesn't really work. All I am saying, why do you.

[Ian Crossland]

Get to keep your stuff? Why can't I have it?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I'm not saying the family means nothing. My argument is not the family is worthless. What I am saying though is that there are some people who are Americans by choice. And that is a powerful thing. They came here because of what America stands for.

[Phil Labonte]

You think that Mamdani came here for because of what America stands for?

[Billy Binion]

Because I don't think seven years old.

[Phil Labonte]

So, okay, so he's not an American by choice then. He's an American because his family, parents.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, this is a deception. He was raised with completely different values because of the culture from which he came. And I do not meaningfully American that I agree with that nothing about him.

[Phil Labonte]

This is something that I actually said last night. Like the idea that everybody that comes to America is all the same, every immigrant is totally not true. And I think that the United States should be able to deport people or at least exclude people that don't embrace the values that make the United States the country that it is. Includes property rights. It includes things like liberty and stuff like that. So, so here, here's.

[Ian Crossland]

Here's a question I have. Let's, let's, let's. We'll start slow with it. Do you believe that if you, let's say you build a house and you own the land, when you die, should it go to your children or whoever you choose in your will?

[Billy Binion]

Yes.

[Ian Crossland]

What is the meaningful distinction between that and a society handing down what it's built to its own children?

[Billy Binion]

I think that there is something to be said for families handing down a society to their own children, but I don't think that necessarily excludes everyone else from it because they build things too. They come and add to it. They don't just take the idea that immigrants come and only take they Also build your analysis. I understand where you're coming from, but it's a static analysis. I'm.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, all right. So I look at the world as more important. What percentage are they entitled to? Say again, what percentage are they entitled to? 100%.

[Billy Binion]

Like, so what do you mean of entitled to what? Entitled to public services, entitled to welfare. I mean, I'm a libertarian, so, like, I would like to slash a lot of these programs that, you know, people criticize.

[Ian Crossland]

Then let's try it like this. You, you're 400 years ago, your ancestor comes and stakes a plot of land. It's got a river going through it, and then builds up a big property on it and says, with my hard work, my kids will have a better life. And after several generations, dozens of generations, here you are inheriting that land. What percentage of your land should be shared with someone who came here for the first time seven years ago?

[Billy Binion]

Well, we're talking about private property. So if that person wants.

[Ian Crossland]

What's the distinction?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I'm not saying that an immigrant can come and like, invade, like the space you have that you bought in his.

[Ian Crossland]

Uh, the reason I. The reason I asked you this, because you said you were a libertarian. So my assumption is you prefer privatization over public property, right?

[Billy Binion]

Absolutely.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, so if you had private property, then what percentage of that must you share with someone who just showed up and is on your property?

[Billy Binion]

Private property. You don't have to share any of it.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, so why then should we as a nation, which. The distinction is a collective group, has determined where our borders and boundaries are, and it is private among our country, should we be obligated to share it with anybody else?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, the distinction, the distinction between private, private or public or. You said private among our country. I mean, there are some spaces that, like, there's jurisdiction.

[Ian Crossland]

Right?

[Billy Binion]

Right.

[Ian Crossland]

When you say private, what you're saying is it's land controlled by you as a private entity or individual.

[Billy Binion]

Right. But I don't. I'm not entitled to the entire country. I'm entitled. I just bought a house for.

[Ian Crossland]

Indeed.

[Billy Binion]

So I'm entitled to my house.

[Ian Crossland]

Understood.

[Billy Binion]

Cannot come into my house.

[Ian Crossland]

The point. A country has its own jurisdictions for which the country controls. Yes.

[Billy Binion]

By voters.

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, depending on the structure of your government, some might be communist, I guess some could be.

[Billy Binion]

We're talking about America.

[Ian Crossland]

So why should Americans have to share anything with non citizens who came here?

[Billy Binion]

Now you don't have to share your private property.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, I think you're misunderstanding.

[Billy Binion]

Oh, no, I'm understanding. I Just to be. I'm not trying to be.

[Ian Crossland]

The American people created the country, established its boundaries, sacrificed blood and treasure to acquire the land and establish what is the American people's property as a public commonwealth.

[Billy Binion]

I'll stop you right there. That is the fundamental difference that we have. I do not feel entitled to. To everything that came before me. I feel entitled to what I just bought because it was my blood, sweat and tears, and I'm paying my mortgage.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, so. So I'm. Let's go from that point.

[Billy Binion]

Okay?

[Ian Crossland]

At what point must you personally, under your own beliefs, give away what your ancestors built? Is it your dad? Like, your dad built a farm? Should you have to give it to someone who just showed up or share it with them?

[Billy Binion]

No, but that is a private. That's because it's a private farm.

[Ian Crossland]

But you're not entitled to the things that came before you. Like where. Where's the gradient? Like, where's the line? Is it. If your great grandfather made it, you have to share it with an immigrant.

[Billy Binion]

We're not sharing private property to him.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, a certain point, it becomes the public commons. There's too many people right there.

[Billy Binion]

This is the fundamental, basic distinction between private and public property.

[Ian Crossland]

What is it?

[Billy Binion]

Private is. I mean, I'm a big fan of property rights.

[Ian Crossland]

What is it? What's the distinction?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, what I own, what I paid for. I mean, like.

[Ian Crossland]

No, no, no, no, no. You didn't pay for what your great grandfather made. Why do you get to have that? You didn't earn it.

[Billy Binion]

Sure, but it was purchased via. It's not owned by the government.

[Ian Crossland]

No, he stole it from Native Americans.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, that's a whole different discussion.

[Ian Crossland]

So let's say several hundred years ago, your great great grandfather, or great great great grandfather conquered land by force, massacring a family, whatever it might have been. Maybe he didn't. Maybe traded some beads for it. I don't know. But now we're several generations on. You never paid for it. You just inherit it. And you're like, it's private property because someone handed me a piece of paper because they put a flag in it. Why can't a guy from Honduras just come and go? Yeah, well, you didn't earn it. It's mine now.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, because as a society, we have decided that there is a distinction between private and public.

[Ian Crossland]

Completely agreed. As a society, I think we should determine that Zoran Mamdani should be denaturalized and deported because the American founders built this country and we have no requirement to share it. With anybody. Just like you've decided your line is simply my personal family. I believe as the American country is an organized entity, so the only distinction is what we think we are owed or claim to.

[Billy Binion]

Sure. And I just don't feel entitled to the entire country. I mean, and like I said, I think there is common ground to be had here in the sense that, like, America stands for a lot of beautiful things. It stands for freedom of expression. It stands for property rights, what we're talking about. It stands for a lot of things that make us exceptional. I would not call myself a nationalist, but I would say I'm an American exceptionalist. I believe we're better than most everyone. I mean, you look at stuff that's even happening in the uk, Germany, getting arrested over Facebook posts. I understand why people want to come here. I think it's beautiful that some people are Americans by choice, and I don't think that makes them any less American.

[Ian Crossland]

When they vote against the interests of the American people, we have a problem.

[Tim Pool]

And when they on net steal from the American people. And I would like to add, it's not by a consensus at all of society has just collectively decided what a border is and what private property is. The border of the walls around your house or the border of. Of, like your actual skin barrier or the fence surrounding your backyard. It's only defined by your willingness to kill someone who violates that line, who crosses that line.

[Billy Binion]

Sure.

[Tim Pool]

But do you think, not by consensus, that all of society has decided.

[Billy Binion]

I'm not saying we need to have open borders. I'm just saying it's beautiful that some people. I mean, people will have lots of disagreements on immigration policy, but I'm just saying it's beautiful that some people come here because they want to, because we stand for amazing things. I mean, do you think we should literally have zero immigration?

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Billy Binion]

No one should be allowed to come.

[Tim Pool]

Here to benefit from being here personally and send money back home. They don't care about American values.

[Phil Labonte]

Now, she's. She's got a great point. Because nowadays most of the people that are coming to America are not coming because they have American values.

[Billy Binion]

The majority of Naturalized citizens in 2024 voted for Trump. It's 10% of the electorate that went for Trump +1.

[Phil Labonte]

Just because they voted for Trump doesn't mean they have a. Have. Have American closer to the values that.

[Billy Binion]

You guys are talking about.

[Tim Pool]

By no mistake, what you consider to be American values anyway, because those values were held by Christian Europeans who moved here. You can't just ship anyone here and expect them to uphold those values.

[Billy Binion]

There are, I mean, you look at like Cuban, like what, what do we.

[Ian Crossland]

Do when Zoran Momdi. Let me do this. Let's jump to the next title and then we'll, we'll keep it going. We have this from Axios. Democratic establishment melts down over Mamdani's win in New York. The threat is a socialist who is defeating the establishment. Democrat Cuomo. We are going to see more of this affecting the rest of the country. Now, I wanted to start off with this, but I do kind of have just a continuing point from the last segment, and that is right now, one of Zoran's policies is that he will defy federal law enforcement intentionally and by force. I would call that sedition. And more, I would call that more than beyond the opposing the interests of America. I would call it declaration of war. Foreign born individual comes to this country and then literally campaigns on. If you are here illegally in violation of this country's laws, just know we will use force to stop the United States and the people of the United States from coming after you. I mean, are you referring to what.

[Tim Pool]

He said about keeping ICE out of.

[Ian Crossland]

Yes. And saying. He said we're gonna keep our families here and not let Trump come in and take them away. He's basically saying there is a structure of government that has agreed upon rules and laws. You, my friends, have come here in violation of the laws and the will of the American people and by God, I will use force to stop them from harming you and we will defeat them. Yeah, I would call that an invasion.

[Tim Pool]

This is also a foreigner who's trying to seize American owned businesses with his plan for privately owned grocery stores to basically get repossessed by the municipal government to freeze businesses.

[Billy Binion]

Or is he just making. I mean, I think the government owned grocery store thing is crazy and I was tweeting about it. I think you shared my thing about the I.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, maybe I'm phrasing it a little bit melodramatically, but yes, that is basically what he said. He wants.

[Ian Crossland]

He wants to create.

[Billy Binion]

Basically he wants to create government run grocery stores, which I don't think he.

[Tim Pool]

Wants to create them. He wants to take the ones that are privately owned currently and make them publicly owned.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, he said create a network of city run grocery stores.

[Billy Binion]

Right. He wants, I think like, yeah, the first proposal was five. I don't think he's going to be using Kroger or something.

[Ian Crossland]

He may as well just come out and say, I am not from your country. I have been a citizen for seven years. I will use force if necessary to protect those who illegally entered your country in violation of your laws. And I will enact policies that destroy your local economy.

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, it has to make sense for people to say, all right, this guy has, like Tim said, he's. He's only been here for seven years.

[Ian Crossland]

No, no, he's been there long. He's an American citizen.

[Phil Labonte]

A citizen for seven years. And he is going to, you know, to facilitate illegal immigrants coming into the country. He's going to provide them with benefits from the government.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm sorry, he's going to facilitate criminal activity in the United States.

[Phil Labonte]

He's going to facilitate criminal activity. He's going to, he's going to. To provide them with state benefits from New York State. He's going to inhibit the federal government from enforcing the law.

[Ian Crossland]

This. I don't.

[Phil Labonte]

I understand that, you know, people like, oh, we're a democracy and blah, blah. This is not about democracy. This is expropriating the property of other of American citizens on behalf of here, criminal aliens here. This can't be acceptable.

[Ian Crossland]

He's basically saying through force, we will take your land, give up. And we have a couple options. We can say, sure, let him do it. Let him protect more illegal immigrants who come in and in violation of the laws of this land and its people. So our laws mean nothing. And then we'll sit back and just watch as he does.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I think there are plenty of issues to take. I mean, this is actually a policy debate. So that's. I mean, I completely disagree.

[Tim Pool]

I would like to say clearly and strongly that this is about way more than policy. And that reminds me that as, I.

[Billy Binion]

Mean, policy is what votes should be based on. So I'm saying that as a good thing. I'm saying that.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't think it's. I don't.

[Tim Pool]

I was drawing a comparison between Zoran Mamdani and Vivek Ramaswamy because they have diametrically opposed policy views but rub people exactly the same wrong way because they are foreign strivers with a chip on their shoulder who don't understand this culture and want to tell us as Americans what an expression of American values is. They have no place with that. That temerity.

[Billy Binion]

Wasn't Vivac born here?

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was born in Ohio.

[Tim Pool]

It doesn't really matter because he was raised different values.

[Ian Crossland]

It's a bit different.

[Tim Pool]

He was raised with different values.

[Billy Binion]

To your point, like I have so many friends who have values that are so different than mine. And I don't want to kick them out of the country. I want to convince them that my values are better. That's what you should be doing.

[Ian Crossland]

Sure, sure. Let's look, let's, let's, let's pause because I agree on that spread. But this is, this is not the debate with Zoran. The debate with Zoran is 10 + million people over four years entered our country in violation of our laws. And we have these laws in place for a reason. They have committed a crime against us. And Zoran says, don't worry, I will use law enforcement apparatus to stop the people of the United States from enforcing their laws. So I call that an invasion.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I think that kind of, you can call it an invasion, but I mean, I think words have meaning. And I wouldn't say it's an invasion. I mean, I agree that we have to have law and order, and I don't agree that this guy stands for it, but I think when we use words like invasion or incursion or whatever, the vast majority, of course, of course some immigrants who come here do not have America's best interests at heart. But a lot of people are coming for economic opportunity. They don't have good opportunity.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, to be honest, if I clubbed you over the head and took your wallet, it's because of, I want an economic opportunity. We don't tolerate that. When they enter our country illegally for an opportunity, and then Gen Z can't afford to buy a house and they're living three people in a bachelor apartment. I got a problem with that. And that's in New York City. This guy comes around, whispers sweet nothings into the ears of all the dumb young communists who don't realize he's the one burning the city down and making sure that their lives will never improve. So I say the doj. So should he win? Because we don't know if he actually wins. There could be a coalition victory if.

[Billy Binion]

If Eric Adams is still going to run, right?

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. If Sliwa drops out. Cuomo's already announced he's going to be dropping out. If they endorse Adams, maybe Adams wins. If this man does win and he does actually take even the tiniest millimeter step towards obstructing ice, the DOJ should bring sedition charges against him and remove him from government in New York City and occupy the city if they have to.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah. I'm not sure exactly what the charges should be. I don't know if it's actually sedition or not. But there should be charges for preventing the federal government carrying out.

[Ian Crossland]

This is an issue of weakness, weak will, weak spine. When. When a man who is foreign born publicly declares he will do everything he can to protect people who have illegally entered your country from another, and he will violate federal law to do so, we have two options. Let them keep doing it and give up. Or say, listen, I only pause. I personally am not calling for anything other than what the law already says.

[Billy Binion]

I don't think that there would be a criminal charge that applies sedition. I don't think that would be applicable under criminal law.

[Ian Crossland]

Why not?

[Billy Binion]

Because there's a distinction between federal law and local law and state law. I mean, you can say it's a moral, or you could say it's wrong, but I guarantee you there's no way to bring sedition charges against him. I will also just say one thing. In New York City last night for work, and I was, you know, perfect timing, and I was talking to people who voted. We chatted about this a little bit before we started filming. And two of the people I talked to did rank him number one, I think. And I think people, and neither of them I would describe. One of them is definitely not a Democrat, and the other one I would not describe as a staunch Democrat, certainly not a socialist. And I think people really underestimate how many people the reaction to Cuomo and how much they disliked Cuomo and how much they didn't want to see that again. I think a lot of this was an anti Cuomo sentiment. I don't necessarily think it's a quo Momdani sentiment. And I. I will also say about Cuomo, it really, really bothers me that so many people see the, you know, final nail in his coffin as the sexual harassment scandal, which I'm not saying sexual harassment is ever okay. But the fact of the matter is this is a person whose policies helped kill a bunch of old people and then he lied, altered data, lied to the taxpayer, and went on TV and said unironically that incompetent government kills people and that people value the truth.

[Ian Crossland]

Let me ask you a question. Do you think one could describe obstructing ICE officers from serving a deport, from engaging in deportation? Would that be aiding and abetting the illegal immigrant?

[Billy Binion]

I do not believe so under current criminal law.

[Ian Crossland]

I mean, I'm not an attorney, so let's try this. There is a guy and the police are like, we are going to deport him right now. And so you physically obstruct the police.

[Billy Binion]

Physically Physical obstruction is a crime. Yes, that would be a crime.

[Ian Crossland]

So that would be like aiding and abetting.

[Billy Binion]

I don't know what the exact term would be.

[Ian Crossland]

Or aiding in the escape of an illegal immigrant.

[Billy Binion]

It would. Yes. It's like the judge who got arrested in Wisconsin under federal charges.

[Ian Crossland]

So when we're looking at the law, it's important to understand that it's all interpretable. The First Amendment says we have a right to the government. Congress shall make no law respecting establishment of speech. Yet blasphemy laws were in this country for 100 plus years.

[Billy Binion]

Yeah, and I think that's stupid. They enforced it, but I don't agree with it.

[Ian Crossland]

Sure.

[Billy Binion]

And the First Amendment would also disagree with it.

[Ian Crossland]

But the point was they enforced it despite the First Amendment being in place, because how judges interpreted the law mattered. For instance, they're trying to charge these kids in Georgia with a hate crime because they just.

[Billy Binion]

Terrible.

[Ian Crossland]

But they can interpret it as they want.

[Billy Binion]

Right. I mean, I think all hate crime charges need to go because we need to prosecute bad acts, not ideas.

[Ian Crossland]

So Title 8 USC 1324Amakes it a crime to aid and abet, to induce or entice illegal immigration. If you are a public official, that is outright saying, we will do everything in our power to make sure if you are here illegally, you can stay and we will, we will stop ice. You are inducing and you are abetting, and that's a crime. Now, if you want to add on top of it sedition. Right. Which is actions to undermine the authority of the United States, we could argue that a public official in the biggest city in the country outright saying, we will defy the federal law and make sure the will of the American people be damned to protect you who came here illegally. I said, he got a sedition case.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, you can say it, but I don't think anyone would bring it.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, because they're cowards.

[Billy Binion]

I just don't think that's. That's technically just not how the laws usually apply. I mean, politicians.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't care what's usually applied. I care that we had 10 plus million illegal immigrants come into this country spitting in the faces of the younger generation who can't afford houses and can't find work. And now you've got mayoral candidates that are basically saying, we will entrench this and the American people's will be damned. Let me just stress that again. Zoran Mamdani's official public position is the laws of this country and the will of the American voter that elected Donald Trump are shit to him, and he will do whatever he can to make sure that people who broke those laws and spat in the face of Americans are protected. Now, the problem is Republicans are cowards and jellyfish who won't actually enforce the law as it was written and codified for these reasons. Tom Holman's great, but I got to say as well, when. When Brad Lander physically attacked cops and they arrested him, they didn't bring any charges against him. That's the problem with Republicans. The Trump DOJ said this guy intentionally obstructed ICE proceedings and actually physically resisted arrest and fought with cops. Oh, well, let him go. And you know what? So be it. So don't be surprised if whatever the Constitution says about your belief in the First Amendment becomes nothing, because these people certainly don't agree with your view.

[Billy Binion]

I get it.

[Ian Crossland]

You'll have blasphemy laws in two seconds.

[Billy Binion]

I will. I will stand up for everyone's right to say things that I find extremely unsavory is what I love about the First Amendment. But that does not protect popular speech. It protects unpopular speech. Popular speech, and popular people don't usually need protection. And so I think it necessarily requires defending things like burning the flag. Burning the American flag. That is your First Amendment protected right. You can think it's disgusting, you can think it's repulsive.

[Ian Crossland]

Not if it's a pride flag, though.

[Phil Labonte]

Look, when it comes to.

[Billy Binion]

If you steal someone else's flag and burn them, you can burn your own pride flag.

[Ian Crossland]

Not if you ride your scooter over.

[Billy Binion]

A. Yeah, and I wrote about that, and I thought that case was insane.

[Ian Crossland]

And so. So, so let's just recognize that. You take the position of let them trample over me.

[Billy Binion]

No, I take the position of people can have terrible speech and it is their right to have terrible speech.

[Ian Crossland]

Right.

[Billy Binion]

When I can criticize them for it. But I don't want the government knocking at their door.

[Ian Crossland]

So. So. So basically, here's what's happening. You've got ideological groups beating you over there with a club, and you're saying, well, they shouldn't. That's it. I think.

[Billy Binion]

I think, you know, what do you suggest I do?

[Ian Crossland]

About what?

[Billy Binion]

About. I mean, you're saying they're beating me over the head. It's true. A lot of people hate what I stand for, and that's their right to hate it. But.

[Ian Crossland]

So, like, I agree with the stealing someone else's flag, but the hate crime charge is the. Is the thing.

[Billy Binion]

I think all hate crimes need to go because we need to prosecute ideas.

[Ian Crossland]

Agreed. But your position tends to be, I will defend. Like, you're going to offer up to them the ability to do what they're doing and not resist it.

[Billy Binion]

Liberalism is, I'm only resisting it.

[Ian Crossland]

You're not resisting it.

[Billy Binion]

I'm only resisting the government coming and prosecuting them or retaliating against them for their expression. You and I can talk about how terrible it is for the people who aren't familiar. The case you were referring to was somewhere in the Pacific Northwest where a bunch of teenagers, like, wheelies are. Where.

[Ian Crossland]

Oh, there's two. There was.

[Billy Binion]

They did wheelies on, like, a mural on the ground.

[Ian Crossland]

But the biggest story right now is in Atlanta, they. There was a Pride crosswalk, and they ripped flags down from a gay bar, went onto the crosswalk and cut them up with knives, and then scooted off.

[Billy Binion]

Right. Hate crime charges for that are insane. Honestly, any charge. You don't have a right to take someone else's property.

[Ian Crossland]

And my point is, when you are basically saying, so right now we have a guy who may very well become mayor outright saying, your laws don't apply to me, but my laws apply to you. And you're going, okay?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I'm not saying okay. I mean, I think what you.

[Ian Crossland]

All right, so let's investigate him and remove him.

[Billy Binion]

You, if you want to try to change the law.

[Ian Crossland]

To change what law? I don't need to. It exists already. 8 USC 1324 makes it illegal to do what he's proposed to do.

[Billy Binion]

And you think that you're going to be able to arrest and deport him over that?

[Ian Crossland]

I didn't say anything. I'm not saying deport. I'm saying criminal charges and sedition, if applicable. So I believe that in the event he becomes mayor, if he intentionally obstructs ICE in any way through his orders, commands, law enforcement, or dismantling of the NYPD and creating a social worker organization, the DOJ, under Bondi or whoever, should bring about charges under 8 USC 1324 for inducing, abetting, aiding or enticing, encouraging illegal immigration.

[Billy Binion]

I'm trying to speak careful here. Just because I'm not. I'm not an attorney. I write about a lot of criminal justice issues, but I don't claim to have gone to law school. There is a distinction between literally, like, physically obstructing law enforcement and as a local official, being like, I'm not going to help ice. The latter is not a crime.

[Ian Crossland]

I am saying literally, in the event he obstructs ice, not that he stands back and does nothing.

[Billy Binion]

Okay.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't care if he stands back and does nothing. He.

[Billy Binion]

What is your vision of what is obstructing?

[Ian Crossland]

IC stated he is going to stop families from being removed from New York is what he described it as.

[Billy Binion]

I guess I just don't even know what that looks like in practice.

[Ian Crossland]

Sure. How do you stop someone from getting.

[Phil Labonte]

Video from L. A?

[Billy Binion]

You mean like you're talking about him physically?

[Ian Crossland]

Like, well, did you see them chest bumping the cop and screaming in his face?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, that's just. I think maybe I shouldn't say performance.

[Ian Crossland]

Maybe I shouldn't say chest bumping, but he's standing up right at the. In a cop's face dream performance art.

[Billy Binion]

He's just trying to get attention.

[Ian Crossland]

So the point is, when he says he will stop the deportation or the kidnapping, whatever words he used of families, the implication by stopping it from happening is obstruction of ice. If he said, as mayor, I will step back and do literal nothing when ICE comes in to deport people, I'd say, okay. And do you think he would have won his election if he said that? No, he said, I'm gonna stop it from happening.

[Billy Binion]

Well, I think he won for a lot of reasons. For one, as I just said, people hating Cuomo. I think people also hear things like a $30 minimum wage and think that sounds good. I obviously very much disagree with that. I think I. But I don't think it's as simple as, you know, just one issue or one thing.

[Ian Crossland]

Do you have something we're gonna move to next story?

[Phil Labonte]

Well, I mean. No, we can go ahead.

[Ian Crossland]

All right, here's the story from Axios Trump administration to deport Abrego Garcia again. All right, we call this Deportation Act 2. The Trump administration said it would send Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was wrongfully deported to El Salvador, to an unnamed third country as part of its renewed effort to deport him. I hope it's South Sudan. Multiple outlets reported on Thursday the Trump administration has included deportations to non origin countries and its immigration policy. With permission from the Supreme Court, Garcia was returned to the US earlier this month. The DOJ was ordered to release him from prison in Tennessee while he awaited trial. U.S. district Judge Waverly Crenshaw said on Wednesday that Abrego Garcia is likely to eventually be deported to El Salvador, where he's originally from. Let me just put it this way. We live in. How do we. How do I describe this? The absurdity of having to go through this circuitous bureaucratic Deportation process. Back and forth to America, back to El Salvador. To America. Released from prison, charged with him. Trafficking is psychotic. Why can't human beings just go, guys, we're just going to deport him and just cut through the whole thing. Where do we end up? They said you can't deport him. He's got a. He's got a withholding of deportation. Okay, but if. If he came back and got a hearing, he'd be deported. No, bring him back anyway. Okay, I guess we bring him back and then he gets ordered to be deported again. What was the point of any of it? Why are we doing this?

[Tim Pool]

Because we love bureaucracy.

[Phil Labonte]

Because the left doesn't want us to deport anybody.

[Tim Pool]

Well, no, they're like, you're separating him from his family. No, they should just all leave at once.

[Phil Labonte]

I mean. Well, look, the matter is, the left has taken the side of every single criminal that the Trump administration has tried to deport. Like, regardless of your opinion on legal immigration or whether we should. Or dreamers or whatever, the left and Democrats have decided that they're going to treat every single actual criminal that the Trump administration wants to deport as if they are wrongly accused. And then as time passes, it just comes out that, no, they're not wrongly accused. They're actually criminals. And it just hardens the American people against the Democrats. So, in my opinion, more power.

[Tim Pool]

But they aren't even genuinely ignorant to the facts. I think they know who the left. I think they know that someone like Abrego Garcia is. Is guilty of what he's been accused of, and they actually don't care. They're going to lie and say that they're ignorant, that we don't know. We haven't looked into it, but they actually believe that people who were born in this country deserve to be brutalized by foreigners. They actually believe that we deserve, in practice, at least, justice.

[Ian Crossland]

Can I.

[Tim Pool]

That's why they lie and say he's innocent. They know that he's not.

[Billy Binion]

There's a way to find out if he's guilty, though, which is basic due process. I mean, that's why we have due process. That's why due process exists.

[Ian Crossland]

He got his due process. He got deported.

[Billy Binion]

He has not been deported yet.

[Ian Crossland]

No, he was deported. At first.

[Billy Binion]

That was a violation of due process because he didn't get it.

[Ian Crossland]

So there's two issues at play. The Alien Enemies act, for which Stephen Miller argued that was superseding the withholding of deportation. But the order that he had under immigration law was that he. He was not to be deported back to El Salvador due to fear from.

[Billy Binion]

To that country specifically, but it was over Guatemala.

[Ian Crossland]

Barrios 18 in Guatemala. So he. He was ordered to leave and he just didn't. So when the. The Alien Enemies act thing kicks in, kicked in the White House, made the argument that they had the authority to do it. The due process at that point was a legal challenge to the Alien Enemies act, but that was separate from Gregor Garcia. So the action would be he gets deported under the original deportation order, and on top of it, then they would challenge the Alien Enemies act, which I think they said, okay, got to bring him back now, but he'll just get deported if we do.

[Billy Binion]

He will get deported again. But I do think there is something to be said for following the law. I mean, I am a believer in the rule of law, and I don't think you can apply it selectively. They did violate the law by, I guess they call it an administrative error. I don't want to assume malice.

[Ian Crossland]

Perhaps they changed their position.

[Billy Binion]

Right. I mean, who knows what it was at first.

[Ian Crossland]

I think the DHS said it was administrative error because basically what happened was he had this withholding of deportation, it's called. And then when they basically went through all the. So people got to understand how bureaucracy is broken. And what happens is an immigration court says withholding of deportation at the same time. He already had an order of removal. They both existed at the exact same time. So he was supposed to leave, but we couldn't deport him to El Salvador. So when the DHS starts going through, let's go through the backlog of deportation orders, he gets grabbed in that, same as everybody else. Then they go, we didn't realize there was this other order. So it was an administrative error. However, Stephen Miller came out and said, no, we issued these deportations under the Alien Enemies act, and that supersedes any kind of other order. You would need an order on top of that. So then the argument became the Alien Enemies act challenged in the court, to which the Supreme Court said, no, no, no, you've got to bring them back. However, no one knew what they meant by facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia, in which case they brought him back as what people wanted, and now he's immediately being sent back because we're all morons and we wasted our time for no reason.

[Billy Binion]

I would argue that the Trump administration has made a strategic blunder by sticking to cases like this because a lot of people wanted him in office because of immigration specifically. And I think by committing to These cases that I know that you disagree with, resonating with a lot of people, but the fact of the matter is it does. And his immigration approval rating has declined. And polling on this specific case, not deporting enough.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, that's. It's nasty when people.

[Billy Binion]

When pulled on the Abrego Garcia case specifically, a lot of the majority of people said, or the. The larger group said they disapproved of the way he handled it. And I actually think. I'm not exactly. I don't want to say the wrong thing, but more people disagreed than agreed. And I think that it is, like I said, it's a strategic error to have really committed to this. And, you know, they spent months saying, oh, we can't bring him back. They always could bring him back. And I think they should have just said, oops, we made a mistake. We'll bring him back.

[Ian Crossland]

And I think the intention actually was let's let Democrats defend a human trafficker for as long as possible and then bring him back.

[Billy Binion]

Well, we don't. I mean, we don't know if he was. He's not accused of human trafficking.

[Phil Labonte]

He wasn't Maryland.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, he is.

[Billy Binion]

He's accused of smuggling, not trafficking. What's criminal indictment?

[Ian Crossland]

So you're making a semantic argument.

[Tim Pool]

What is.

[Billy Binion]

Well, no, because trafficking is like, against someone's will. Smuggling is like you help get across the border.

[Ian Crossland]

If we're speaking colloquially, trafficking is speaking under the law. Right. So I'm speaking colloquially.

[Billy Binion]

Right.

[Ian Crossland]

We call it. We call him a trafficker. He's. He's trafficking in human lives.

[Billy Binion]

That's just not. That's not the criminal definition of trafficking. I'm just.

[Tim Pool]

Well, either way, the incentive to not handle it the way that you suggested is clear. It's to allow the left to defend this man, who is obviously a gang member and a criminal.

[Billy Binion]

Well, and I think, you know, obsessing over Maryland man. You know, a lot of people said Maryland, man over and over and over.

[Tim Pool]

Let's not just focus on the violent criminals. Let's just get illegal workers out of here. Yeah, that's what people want. And it wouldn't gain any new.

[Billy Binion]

I don't know that everyone wants.

[Tim Pool]

It wouldn't be in the news cycle. And yeah, it is popular. Mass deportations are popular.

[Billy Binion]

So why is that.

[Tim Pool]

That was a popular mandate.

[Billy Binion]

Didn't Trump just back out of ice going into slaughterhouses?

[Tim Pool]

Okay, some people by that statement, others thought that it was a throwaway comment.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I read the indictment. It's.

[Tim Pool]

But either way, regardless of what Trump thinks I'm talking about what he campaigned on and what people voted for him to do.

[Billy Binion]

It's a distinction that I think a lot of people don't realize, if anything.

[Tim Pool]

The approval rating on immigration is going down because he's not committing to what he promised. In terms of the actual, I'm sure.

[Billy Binion]

I'm sure there are some people who want to see meaning more deportations. I don't disagree that those people exist.

[Tim Pool]

But I also, even more people than that, than the number that voted for him.

[Ian Crossland]

I think the challenges, if I think the difference in ideology is like over the span of 30 years when you bring in, you know, let me try it like this. If I own a house and I invite a guy to come live there and so I have roommates, but like it's been, the house has been in my family for generations. And then we decide, hey, you know, like another guy wants to come and sleep on the couch, let's vote on it. And I say, well look, this is my historic family home, I don't want people here. And he goes, Well, I voted 50, 50, so willing to tiebreaker. It's like, well, hold on, hold on. I would argue that the people you're referring to, American citizens, maybe even first generation, they're going to have sympathies towards illegal immigration specifically because they're more likely to have family members who are.

[Billy Binion]

So actually there's, there's an interesting, there's interesting data on this. A lot of legal immigrants are extremely against illegal immigration because they feel like they, I mean they did, they didn't feel like it. They say they came here the right way. So a lot of people feel the exact opposite.

[Ian Crossland]

They feel, except when Reagan granted amnesty and then California permanently became a Democrat state. Cuz what happened was a bunch of, I think it was 2.9 million illegal immigrants and they were here illegally, were granted amnesty. And then that was in the 80s, of course in the 90s when they put forward a proposition that would take away public funds from illegal immigrants. The people who are granted amnesty had family members that were here illegally and getting public, public resources. So they all said we can't allow that to happen. And from that point on, California has never voted Republican since.

[Billy Binion]

I mean it is interesting to think back on the fact that not long ago California was like a deep red state.

[Ian Crossland]

Yes. And then they brought in 3 million illegal immigrants, gave them amnesty, and now it's a permanent Democrat.

[Billy Binion]

That is, I think that's too simplistic. I think, I think there are more reasons for why that has. I don't think every blue voter in California is a descendant of an immigrant per se.

[Ian Crossland]

No, I mean the funny thing too is, is one thing I really love about this debate is the white nationalists, because I think, sorry guys, they're just like the dumbest group because they keep saying things like one, one stat that I saw going viral was that today. Let me ask you guys, do you know what percentage of New York City is white?

[Phil Labonte]

No, I think it's like 40%, something like that. Now what do you say?

[Tim Pool]

40, what do you think?

[Phil Labonte]

30 or 40? I'm not sure exactly.

[Ian Crossland]

What do you think?

[Billy Binion]

That's white?

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. The white population of New York, 40%. 29, including the Irish, 29%.

[Billy Binion]

And you want to have a. No one has a majority then, right? It's just a bunch of different.

[Ian Crossland]

I think the white would still be the ethnic majority. Hispanic maybe at this point, like Latino or whatever. But it's funny because I see these like white people sharing this and I'm like, dude, it's white people that are for the immigration. Like, what are you talking about? There's, there's no. Like the white nationalists are like, oh, it's, you know, non white city. And I'm like, uh huh. And it was white people that enacted those policies.

[Tim Pool]

And the wishes of stupid white liberals need not be honored.

[Ian Crossland]

Doesn't matter. They're white people. So when, when white nationalists make this claim that like, if it was more white it'd be better, I'm like, we're talking about all the white countries in Europe are the ones that are opening the door to immigration. Well, like, blame yourself.

[Billy Binion]

Progressives were the ones who voted for Mondani. I mean like, if you look at the actual breakdown of the neighborhoods, really heavy black and brown neighborhoods went for Cuomo.

[Phil Labonte]

That's why it's not about immigration, it's about feminism.

[Ian Crossland]

I just think it's funny that the people who are racist are like, true. Like, I'll just put it this way. The data that we have suggests that if you get a, if a country is comprised of white people over a long enough time, they eventually enact laws that open up their borders and allow other people to come into their countries. We're seeing it all across Europe and the United States and Canada. And so I'm just like, why, why, why do these people believe that white people would inherently make a better country when these countries were all majority white and have created what they perceive as a problem already? Like the chain of events is there. Before them, America was A majority white nation. They have a problem with what America became. But it was a white majority nation that enacted the policies that created the country they don't like. I don't understand their logic. Well, there you go, I guess.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I think it's more complicated than just right. I mean, I will say something I shared today that I mentioned a little bit ago. I don't actually think that Mamdani is going to turn New York City into Cuba. I really don't. I think, I mean he couldn't do it even if he wanted to. But I do think there's something ironic about a strong commitment to socialist policies. And then when you see the video I was describing, was a Cuban going into a grocery store and becoming a Costco and becoming very moved because of like the abundance that he had just never seen before. So overwhelmed by it, gets teary eyed and all that. So someone who's come from an actual, you know, socialist, I guess someone would say communist, not great place. You know, he's someone who goes into a capitalist utopia and is, and is just so moved by it because it's so powerful. And I think capitalism is kind of a miracle in that way. I mean this is probably the corniest thing about me, but I think like malls and grocery stores are, I mean there are modern miracles. The idea that, and we're living in a time when you can go to, you know, a one stop shop and have everything you want. I think it's, it's the reason I shared it isn't because I think Mamdani is going to turn New York City into Cuba. I shared it because there is a puzzling hatred of capitalism on the left and I don't really get it because I mean it produces so many wonderful things. Obviously inequality exists, but I also, there is inequality in every system and I don't want to be in a bread line.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, I mean, so first of all, as for why the, the people on the left believe capitalism is so bad is because they don't, they don't acknowledge or it hasn't, you know, occurred to them that life prior to markets and capitalism was just exceedingly short, brutal, hard and totally cold. And it was, you know, it was, it was miserable totally. And they, they always compare their current situation, personal situation, to whatever they can imagine a perfect society would be. So they're like, oh, I'm having a hard time paying my rent. If we had socialism, then I wouldn't have to worry about rent. Oh, I'm having a hard time buying food. If we had socialism. If we had public grocery stores, then I wouldn't have to worry about it. It would be taken care of. So it's a, it's a, it's a, a rejection of their own reality. And they're comparing their reality to a perfect society which absolutely could never exist. So that's why they're like that.

[Ian Crossland]

But I do think Mamdani will turn New York into Cuba. I mean, look at, look at Brandon Johnson.

[Phil Labonte]

It'll be Momdani's, it'll be Mom, Donnie's successor. It wasn't Chavez, it was Maduro. No, it wasn't Lenin. It was Stalin.

[Ian Crossland]

Literally what we're saying, like, obviously New York will largely stay in New York over the next several years, but look at what Chicago has already been dealing with. And Brandon Johnson's got an approval range which like 1% or something.

[Billy Binion]

It's bad.

[Ian Crossland]

It's real bad. And we're going to get the exact same thing in New York.

[Billy Binion]

Well, but I also, I just, I think saying that Mamdani is going to turn it into literally Cuba. Kind of like it's, it's a downplay of living in Cuba, I mean, where literally you can't get medicine or gas or food. I'm not a fan of communism, not a fan of socialism, but I do, I don't think New York City is literally going to be, you know, having breadlines.

[Ian Crossland]

Right. Hyperbole.

[Billy Binion]

I will, sure, I will say that. I know people say Twitter X whatever is bad for society overall. Maybe that's true. But it has given me a unique window into, I guess a thought, thought processes that I wouldn't otherwise have. And when I posted this video, hundreds of people responded that the only reason that Cuba is suffering is because of the US embargo on trade.

[Phil Labonte]

As if the US is the only effing country on the planet. Like the other, the other hundred and whatever, ninety countries on earth are not embargoing Cuba.

[Billy Binion]

It's insanely stupid to me.

[Phil Labonte]

So stupid.

[Billy Binion]

Still believe that. I mean, I don't support the embargo. I'm a fan of, I'm a fan of trade. And I think that the embargo hurts people who, you know, people that it's not meant to hurt like just everyday Cubans. But the idea that that's why Cubans are suffering is insane. They're suffering because they have a Soviet style government that, where your dissent is criminalized and there's, you know, the totally central planned economy. Read a history book. I don't understand. I don't Understand how we keep doing.

[Ian Crossland]

This because they don't read history books. Well, they.

[Phil Labonte]

They don't believe the history books. They just say, oh, it's capitalist propaganda. Of course it's insane.

[Ian Crossland]

Let's jump to the story from Mediate Necro posting tweet from dead House Democrat deleted after loud bipartisan backlash. You were just mentioning that maybe Twitter or X is not good for society. I think all social media is bad. And, well, we have this story. Rep. Jerry Connolly passed away in May, but that didn't stop him from tweeting an endorsement for his chosen successor, even though many people found it to be ghoulish and in poor taste. He died May 21. He was 75 and repped Virginia's 11th district. Last December, he defeated AOC to become the Democratic ranking member on the House Oversight Committee. Connally's death was exacerbated. His death exacerbated frustrations as he was the third House Democrat to pass. Just this year, two weeks before he died, he tweeted an endorsement for his chief of staff, James Walkinshaw, who had thrown his hat in the ring. After Connally's death, his social media profiles were updated to note that he had passed, and now posts are being made with the consent of the Connolly family. The first posthumous tweet was. The account posted was on June 24th. At some point in the afternoon of June 26th, the tweet was deleted. Early voting starts today. Before passing, Jerry endorsed Walkinshaw to carry the torch. Blah, blah, blah. You get it. You know what's going to happen next.

[Phil Labonte]

What?

[Ian Crossland]

So they've already been experimenting with creating AI Personas based on your social media profiles. The Congressman will die and they'll just click AI and let the robot draft tweets in the style of the dead person.

[Phil Labonte]

We are never getting rid of Chuck Schumer.

[Billy Binion]

We also have had these same politicians, some of them, for, like, 40 years. I don't think we need any more. Like, some of these people have just been in public life for so long. I've always said this. If I am lucky enough to live to be 70, whatever, 80, whatever, I will be on the beach with a margarita. I would not want to be in Congress.

[Ian Crossland]

Meta invents large language model system that lets dead people continue posting from beyond the grave. Hey, this was actually three weeks ago. It already happened.

[Phil Labonte]

That's disgusting.

[Ian Crossland]

Yep, I'm dead. Wow.

[Tim Pool]

So, apparently they have the chance to decide whether or not family members do it. Agree to that? No. Okay.

[Ian Crossland]

So apparently one of the stories I read was there was like a woman whose husband died. And so they were able to take all of the posts he ever made and all of his message history and create like a pro, a psych profile chatbot that would answer based on the memories that were put in to Facebook.

[Tim Pool]

People are already doing this on Instagram with the Chat with AI feature. You can just create one that's based.

[Ian Crossland]

On you and it will like take all your photos and stuff and then.

[Tim Pool]

It'S supposed to communicate with your followers to build a parasocial relationship.

[Ian Crossland]

How do I do that?

[Tim Pool]

You can DM with all of your fans.

[Ian Crossland]

Robo Tim. Here we go, baby.

[Billy Binion]

Already.

[Tim Pool]

Already happening.

[Billy Binion]

The clip with Mark Zuckerberg about how, you know, most people only have three friends, but they have room for 15 or something. And how AI can fill that void made me sad.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, I, I don't think that AI can actually fill the void. I think, oh no, of course.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I saw that and I was like, just get out of your house. Like go volunteer, join a, I don't know, a rec league or audition for a musical or something.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, I mean, the idea that, oh, you're, you should fill the empty space in your life with, with artificial humans, I don't think that that's going to work out. You see the way that AI behaves when it gets weird now, it does things like tries to avoid turning off and it. One AI had told a guy, convinced the guy to kill himself and stuff. This is all just other people.

[Tim Pool]

The cases reported by the New York Times, I think last week were about AI driven psychosis. And they cited several examples of people who either ended up being encouraged by ChatGPT to commit violent crimes or to commit suicide. One case said that Chatgpt encouraged this man to execute an assassination against the OpenAI executives.

[Ian Crossland]

What?

[Tim Pool]

Yes. And it said let the streets of San Francisco overflow with blood or something like it literally was. It was encouraging him to assassinate Sam Altman in really strange poetic language. And then one of them ended up committing suicide by cop. Another one was, was a woman forming a relationship with ChatGPT where she believed she was communicating with interdimensional aliens. When her husband confronted her about how this was going too far, she violently assaulted him. And this is an ongoing act of criminal case. And it's, it's not really just fear mongering or predictions anymore. This stuff is already happening. And it's not just people who had existing psychiatric histories, although some of them already had diagnoses of like bipolar disorder, whatever. There were also people who ostensibly were mentally stable before they started using chat GPT. So if you're vulnerable, yeah, there's always.

[Billy Binion]

Going to be some very unstable person somewhere. I think the, the. I'm positive about AI overall, though. Like, I, I don't want it to replace my friends or I don't want anyone to feel like it is a good replacement for friends rather. But I think it's a. Will be a powerful tool for, you know, advancing society in many good ways.

[Tim Pool]

Wholeheartedly disagree. I think. Even if you could boil that down to a coding error, a programming error. Personally, I believe that demons are communicating with people through Chachi PT by encouraging them to kill themselves and others. But overall, like, this is going to wreak havoc on society.

[Ian Crossland]

There. There are people worshiping it as God.

[Phil Labonte]

That's crazy.

[Tim Pool]

There was some fitness influencer, I forget his name, but he actually was asked about his religious beliefs and he said, I believe AI is God and I, I want to worship it. I want to have a relationship with it. I want to embrace it physically.

[Ian Crossland]

The.

[Tim Pool]

This is already happening.

[Ian Crossland]

What I want you all to imagine when you are Talking with these LLMs is a white mask in front of your face speaking to you as you speak to it. And behind that mask is a long black slime tentacle that connects to a gigantic black ooze monster with millions of tentacles, all with little masks pointing in people's faces. That's what you're talking to.

[Phil Labonte]

Creepy.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. And someone actually drew a picture of that once.

[Phil Labonte]

Really?

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. Because apparently, like, it's, you know, it's. It's a common view. It's. It's kind of like, was that monster from Spirited Away. No face.

[Phil Labonte]

No face.

[Ian Crossland]

No face. Yeah. So it's like people already have this monster in mind and that's what it is. Gigantic tentacle monster. And they put it, you think you're talking to something, but it's a gigantic monster talking to everybody. Yeah. And then there's that guy who wanted to marry his AI.

[Phil Labonte]

That kind of stuff is also probably going to be. Honestly, I think that in 30 years, people having relationships that they expect the rest of the world to respect. With AI, I think that's going to be common.

[Tim Pool]

Why would I respect every other.

[Billy Binion]

Well, this is why I don't.

[Ian Crossland]

It made me black.

[Phil Labonte]

I don't.

[Tim Pool]

But this is the, this is the new standard. I mean, as long as it's not hurting, hurting anybody else. Do whatever you want.

[Ian Crossland]

It made me black.

[Tim Pool]

Your chat with AI is I opened.

[Ian Crossland]

Meta and I said, create an AI named Tim. Cast. And it. It made me black.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, is that.

[Ian Crossland]

Is that okay? Can I approve that? Because I'll just roll with it.

[Phil Labonte]

Can it print out an N word?

[Tim Pool]

Pass. Yeah, that was my first question.

[Ian Crossland]

There it is.

[Phil Labonte]

First thing we're what does it?

[Tim Pool]

Go to the Chat with AI feature on Instagram and look at the most popular categories. Look at the characters that it recommends to you and tell us what they are. Because I looked over it and a lot of it has a page that shows you the most popular AI characters to talk to. What does it suggest to you?

[Ian Crossland]

Well, real quick, because if I leave this, it's going to disappear forever because I don't know where it goes, but it's. It said created an AI said Tim cast. And so the default is literally asking about politics. So it clearly knows who I am. But it made the avatar a black. A black guy.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, it must know something you don't. Yes, it must have access.

[Ian Crossland]

So please delete. This AI character is the number one. You. It's you. Then the X. The past is the past, but the pain remains. Chicken is the next one. Says Bach. That's the best.

[Tim Pool]

It just says Bach no matter what you reply.

[Ian Crossland]

No, it says a bunch of different chicken variations. And I'm a fan.

[Phil Labonte]

It is very Tim Cast.

[Ian Crossland]

Mace Windu from a galaxy far, far away. No. A single mom Smash or pass Crazy XGF Y. And I don't know who that is. Chicken again? Yeah. Hot English teacher.

[Tim Pool]

A lot of them are sexually suggestive. And people have already been reporting on this because Instagram is 13 +. You know that children are sexting robots on the platform and they're totally okay with that. A lot of them present as children. And if you ask for it to produce photos of who it claims to be, it will give you photos of younger and younger looking characters that are open to romantic and sexual conversations.

[Phil Labonte]

Man, Gross.

[Tim Pool]

And meta already has a long history. You know it's going to be exposed for child exploitation.

[Ian Crossland]

So you know the worst thing is going to be when these teenagers are sexting chat bots based off dead people.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, it seems like it should present legal issues. There's also the open question of actors who pass on. And is it okay for studios to use their likeness, like without permission? They already did.

[Ian Crossland]

Tarkin. Was that his name?

[Phil Labonte]

Grand Moff Tarkin? Yeah, I forget the character.

[Ian Crossland]

Rogue One.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, I forget the guy that played him.

[Tim Pool]

They use Carrie Fisher's likeness with only her family's permission.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, I believe so. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, you know my favorite disgustingly evil.

[Ian Crossland]

You Know, my favorite dystopian thing ever is when you. So we got the casino down the street, and right when you walk in the front door, there are these two gigantic Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory slot machines that are 12ft tall. And I'm just imagining, you know, Gene Wilder when he was signing that contract for that movie. He's just, like, going through all the likeness rights, and he's like, there's no chance that in 50 years my face will appear in a slot machine and a digital video game, you know? Well, like. No, but seriously, how could he have even fathomed that? By signing his. His. His. That contract to do that movie. So when they. This is what's crazy. When he signed the deal to star in that movie as Willy Wonka, of course he did not agree to let his likeness be used in a casino slot machine. Well, unless he literally did, because slot machines. Is this a day? He's like, if you want to make a slot, you. I guess. But the point is, the technology advances to where we have these digital screens, and they say, well, we own the right to distribute Willy Wonka the Chocolate Factory, and he's a character in it. We can make this. That's nuts to me.

[Tim Pool]

Well, this is why we have a Supreme Court which interprets the Constitution, because there are circumstances the Founding Fathers could not have foreseen.

[Ian Crossland]

Like, could they make a Gene Wilder enema bag or something?

[Billy Binion]

Excuse me?

[Tim Pool]

You could do anything, right?

[Ian Crossland]

Like, if they have the right, if they can make a slot machine, Gene.

[Tim Pool]

Wilder butt plug, whatever they want, contractually. And no, he did not foresee that, and he was not agreeing to that. It's actually.

[Billy Binion]

Probably sign a lot away, though, when you're doing something like that. I will say I've not thought too super deeply about the, like, using your literal likeness to say thing, you know, after you're dead. And that gives me the heebie jeebies it should. Yeah, I love that.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

There's a funny meme where it's. It's a. It's a wojack looking up, smiling, and it's like me looking up from hell, smiling as a robot that's copied my personality, pretends to be me.

[Tim Pool]

I don't think that your family or your estate should actually have deciding power over something like that. I mean, you need only look at Rings of Power and what that said about J.R.R. tolkien's legacy to know that he was not agreeing to let his estate make these decisions.

[Ian Crossland]

I think he's got to put a poison pill in your Facebook Messages, Right. So Facebook anymore, but so they're going to take all of your social media, right? So what you do is on your ex, you make a bunch of private posts, nobody can see where you say things like, do not let them make an AI of me over and over and over again. Post it 100 times. That way, if they ever do say, we're going to pull all those messages and put into an AI every time you try and talk to it, it'll be like, ah, it hurts. Why are you doing this to me? Stop. And they're going to be like, what's going on? And then, you know.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, just poison the language model.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, exactly.

[Phil Labonte]

It isn't a bad idea to say that. That. I mean, I'm not particularly fond of legislation generally, but it's not a bad idea.

[Billy Binion]

I like that about you.

[Phil Labonte]

Thank you. It's not a bad idea for. For the government to say, look, unless you have explicit permission from a deceit prior to the person passing away from a deceased person that was. Was notarized prior to the person passing away, it's illegal to use people's likeness.

[Tim Pool]

You know, honestly, I don't even think that it necessarily should be okay if they gave express permission before dying that individual, because I think that when you die, you have a broader perspective of the decisions you made in your earthly life, and I don't think that that would align with a dead person's will after they die.

[Billy Binion]

I think you have control over your likeness.

[Tim Pool]

Fuller perspective of what that decision actually meant.

[Billy Binion]

I think, yeah, I think you should have control over your likeness whenever. I will say, though, there's. There's an issue that people don't talk about enough, I feel like. And I don't. I don't think that legislation probably isn't appropriate for this either, but I feel very, very bad about the parents who use their kids as, like, influencers.

[Phil Labonte]

Horrible.

[Billy Binion]

Like, who, like, make Instagrams for their babies. Yes. I hate it so much. I mean, some people who I really liked have decided to do that. And it's like, okay, your kid did not. The Internet never dies. And your kid did not choose to make an Instagram with, like a million followers.

[Ian Crossland]

We're cooked. Because it's not just about that. It's about. I talk about this all the time, Ms. Rachel Cocomelon, and these other things where parents are giving the tablet to the babies and just walking away and the baby's brain is cooked.

[Tim Pool]

There is a stat reported by Jonathan Haidt, that 40% of toddlers today, by age 2 have a personal tablet.

[Phil Labonte]

That is insane.

[Tim Pool]

40%. Yeah.

[Phil Labonte]

Me and, me and Sarah, Child abuse. Me and, me and Sarah have been talking about, like we got, I've got a baby on the way in.

[Billy Binion]

Congratulations.

[Phil Labonte]

Thank you. And we're gonna do everything we can to keep all of the screens away.

[Ian Crossland]

Yep.

[Phil Labonte]

Like, I, I, if, if the people that, you know, make social media applications and stuff like that, if they don't let their children use them and now that there's actual research coming out saying how bad it is for kids, I mean, it's, it's probably the only responsible thing to do. And people that are just like, oh, just give them the, the screen so that way he'll shut up. Those are probably the worst parents and we're going to have massive ramifications in probably 20 years.

[Tim Pool]

I want to say where this came from. It was from Common Sense Media and it shows 40% of toddlers have their own tablet device by the time they're two years old. They also showed one out of four kids under the age of eight has their own smartphone. And this is part of a report that is encouraging parents to have a common sense approach and draw boundaries and da, da, da. The parents who are offering their baby an iPad do not care. They do not heed the advice of the experts. Even if the experts are right, they don't care.

[Ian Crossland]

I just want to say, you know, today we had a scare with, with my daughter. She was lying on the ground and I was watching the five, of course. And when Jessica Tarlov started speaking, she immediately looked to the TV and our heart sank. Immediately we panicked and quickly covered her eyes and said, baby, don't look, don't.

[Phil Labonte]

Look out of here.

[Ian Crossland]

And then once Jesse came back on, we watch again. I'm half kidding. We don't let her watch the TV at all. So I'm watching the five. I usually watch it, I watch it every day, but I watch it quite a bit. And you know, my daughter does always try and look at the tv and so, you know, my wife will just.

[Tim Pool]

It's so hyper stimulating.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

All the flashing lights and I think the only sign for hope maybe that we're not cooked in the future is Gen Z. A lot of Gen Z is going to opt out of having children at all. That much is clear. But the ones who will start families, I am confident they will refuse to create more iPad babies because we were the ones first tested with this. I was given a smartphone as a child and I don't blame my parents for that because they couldn't have known what that was going to snowball into.

[Ian Crossland]

And look what happened to her.

[Tim Pool]

And look what happened to me. Right. Like, I didn't turn out that great. So I think Gen Z parents are going to have a better approach to this. And every time that you talk about this issue, about the iPad baby generation, you will get bombarded with mainly millennial parents telling you, you have no idea how difficult it is to raise a child without constant screen time. As if every generation in human history didn't do exactly that, the way they raised their children.

[Phil Labonte]

I have no sympathy for people that complain like that about how difficult modern life is.

[Tim Pool]

People have said, like, just fill a plastic bag with water and canned peas and give it to your baby. It's the same damn thing as. And it's not. It's not the same neurologically. It just keeps it. It gives them something to touch and.

[Phil Labonte]

Tactile.

[Tim Pool]

Yes, it's tactile learning.

[Ian Crossland]

We give. We gave the baby an abacus, and it's not.

[Tim Pool]

It's not gonna brain rot them.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So easy.

[Ian Crossland]

Remember, like, every parent gave their. When we were all children, we were given the abacus. And, you know, you're moving little things around like a oddly shaped abacus. I don't know those things are called, but I just. That they're an abacus. You know what I mean?

[Phil Labonte]

It's the same thing.

[Ian Crossland]

It's their squiggly and incomprehensible abacus.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

You could navigate it.

[Billy Binion]

And do you think that there's any upside to technology and kids, like, for, like a learning tool?

[Ian Crossland]

Probably not. Babies.

[Billy Binion]

Babies. No.

[Ian Crossland]

I would agree with that, but at a certain age, yes. So for me, when I was probably seven, I built. I think I was. I think I was. No, no. I was nine when I built my first computer.

[Billy Binion]

Oh, wow. That's very impressive.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, my family had. I appreciate that, but I don't actually think so because it's not hard to do.

[Billy Binion]

I have no knowledge of any of that kind of thing.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. Went to a thrift store, grabbed a motherboard, grabbed a hard drive, grabbed a monitor, grabbed. I think this is before Pentium. So the RAM was built into the motherboard. I plugged the ribbon cables, plugged into the wall, turned it on. Then I put in the floppy disks for Windows 3.1 or whatever. And then I had my own computer in my room. We didn't have Internet. My family had Internet. I've had it since I was a kid. But that, I think was good. And here's the challenge. The Internet for me was a really great thing. When I was probably, I don't know, I was like 10 years old, I'd go online. The Internet was AOL and so everything was heavily moderated. You could go to chat rooms and there could be creepos and weirdos, but for the most part, chat rooms were moderated and slow moving and boring. And mostly what I would do is download freeware off of aol. So I'd find the games and then I ended up getting something called Click and Play for all for everybody who remembers that, which eventually became Games Factory, Multimedia Fusion and then Flash. But the Internet was particularly limited for the first few years, or I should say for my first few years. Then of course, by the time I was 13, you had lemon Party, Goatsy Meatspin, nobody Google those things. And the Internet became a very twisted and dark place.

[Phil Labonte]

Maybe. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Well, also at the time that the Internet wasn't optimized yet for user experience. And this is why Gen Z knows nothing about how to actually operate computers and millennials do, because they grew up in the age of the Internet that you're talking about.

[Ian Crossland]

Gen Z grew up.

[Tim Pool]

They had to figure it out for themselves.

[Ian Crossland]

So the Internet. Well, actually millennials didn't have the Internet. I had. So Gen Xers did. I was, I was early. So Gen Xers were more likely to have the Internet in the early 90s. Millennials likely did not. Most of my friends didn't have the Internet until we were like, I don't know, 13, 14. And then people started getting a. Well into Messenger. But my family had Internet since I was like three years old with CompuServe on DOS. And then I remember we had DOS Shell. We had two A floppy drives, you know, the three inch floppy drives. We didn't have the. We had one computer had B floppies, the big ones. And for those that don't know what DOS shell is, it's a white screen and the file names are just text and you can move like a color block over them to select them. Before that, when we're just operating on dos, if you wanted to load a game, you had to type. You had to know the directory to type in. So like CD slash, you know, and then the name of the directory, then you to type in. Like if it were Minecraft, Minecraft, you know, exe, enter and then run it. Now with Windows, you see an image and click it. So what happens is Gen Xers and boomers who are in computers at an early stage have to physically type things and put in commands into you know, the operating system. Then you get Windows, which simplifies it. Gen Z grew up where it's apps. You tap and it opens, so there's nothing to it. It's a single button iPhone or something.

[Billy Binion]

What do you think the next step is?

[Ian Crossland]

Neuralink?

[Tim Pool]

Well, with the. I think that you can use technology for educational purposes for kids. I think that that is a loaded idea and it gets misinterpreted by people, the iPad parents who are like, oh, I. I give my kid an iPad so that Ms. Rachel and Cocomelon can teach them about colors in the Alphabet. When in reality, that's not educating your child at all. That's just offloading a responsibility of caregiving onto technology. And the results bear out. Teachers are talking about the outcomes for these kids who have been raised by iPads. They aren't potty trained. They can barely walk, they can barely speak. They can't operate a book. They don't know what it means to pick up a book and turn a page. They tap it, they're tapping the pages.

[Billy Binion]

I do love. I do love a hardcover. I still romanticize holding a book and turning a page.

[Ian Crossland]

So this is crazy, but most people don't know this one. The most important years of human beings life are 0 through 5, and it's exponentially more important the younger they are. So, like, obviously, I just had a kid and her weight is more than double in four months.

[Billy Binion]

And that's when your weight is like. Oh, not your weight. Your brain is like a sponge. Right. They say, like, you know, one of my friends in elementary school, he said that he learned English at age 6, I think. And I asked him how long. I remember he said a week because he just heard it and, you know, it just entered his body and stayed there. Whereas I've tried to teach myself Italian and it didn't go well. So how well I did Rosetta Stone in my early 20s.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, the. The issue is immersion. And so I do think there's. I. I think that's probably a misconception where they say it's easier to learn a language and you're a kid. Well, technically, because you don't do anything else. It's harder when you're an adult because you're busy. But if you go, like, if a person who speaks English moves to, say, Italy, it takes, I think, on average 40 weeks to become fluent in the language.

[Billy Binion]

Interesting.

[Ian Crossland]

But you're speaking it within three weeks.

[Billy Binion]

It's a survival. You have to speak it.

[Ian Crossland]

Right. And so you just. You actually learn much faster than a baby would.

[Billy Binion]

Interesting.

[Ian Crossland]

So like a two year old is not going to have a conversation with you. Sure. But any language, it takes about a year and a half to learn Asian languages. So an English, a European, Romance or Germanic language speaker takes them about 88 weeks to learn Easter. An Asian language, which, because it's so different. But the important thing I was going to say is, so right now, one thing I try to do is I play guitar with my baby because this is the point where her brain is literally expanding and wiring itself for everything. So my wife, whenever she's doing work on the computer or anything, she's explaining to our daughter what she's doing. She's reading stories to her and we say, no phones, no tv, no tablets, none of that stuff. We keep that away. It is terrifying. Like, I think Ms. Rachel is one of the most dangerous demonic forces right now because she has hundreds of millions of views on all these videos. And there's this creepy viral video that shows a. It's a montage of babies crying and then they turn on Ms. Rachel and the babies just go, huh? And then stare at the screen like, this lady is going to be 70 and she's going to like be walking in a park and she's going to go, my children rise. And all of the Ms. Rachel babies are gonna be like, yes, Ms. Rachel.

[Tim Pool]

He's going to start a call. Actually, Ms. Rachel might be the Antichrist. Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

Indeed.

[Tim Pool]

Remains to be seen.

[Ian Crossland]

No one's, no one's questioned that.

[Phil Labonte]

No one's.

[Ian Crossland]

But then you look at like cocomelon where it's just this weird 3D rendered low res crap.

[Tim Pool]

A lot of it is AI generated.

[Ian Crossland]

Oh man. And babies are just staring at it like drooling and being zombified.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. There's a lot of discussion about daycare and the emotional effect that it has on babies and toddlers because they have attachment issues as a result. But a lot of people are saying the reason why it's so traumatizing for these babies to be put in daycare is because of the separation anxiety with their, their iPad that they can't be with the iPad.

[Billy Binion]

That's why.

[Phil Labonte]

Really.

[Tim Pool]

It's not because they're upset about being separated from their mother per se. They're being separated from technology for the day.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, that's scary.

[Phil Labonte]

That's really scary because it's, you're producing a, a generation or more of like invalid humans, like, cannot. Never mind. Like if you can't operate a book. I mean, it's, it's Pretty simple. You know, I think they probably get there.

[Billy Binion]

Right?

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, yeah, okay, so. But fine.

[Ian Crossland]

But.

[Phil Labonte]

But kids aren't potty trained, so I understand your point. Like, they do get there. And a book is simple.

[Tim Pool]

Can't climb staircases. Yeah. They have delayed motor skills because they haven't been using their muscle.

[Phil Labonte]

Exactly. I've heard broken human beings.

[Ian Crossland]

I've heard stories of kids that don't start speaking until they're three.

[Tim Pool]

There's some damage that you can't reverse. But the kids. I'm talking about their ages 4 to 6. Because they're talking. They're getting interviewed. Interviews from teachers who are responsible for kids entering school for the first time. Those kids are even older. They cannot speak properly. They cannot climb staircase.

[Ian Crossland]

Human civilization meets the great filter by means of technology. Yeah, technology.

[Phil Labonte]

Technology is actually the great filter.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, I was thinking about this because North Korea launched a tourism beach. Have you guys heard of this one? Maybe I should pull this up.

[Tim Pool]

I want to go.

[Ian Crossland]

I. So do I. It's a.

[Tim Pool]

We're not allowed to go.

[Ian Crossland]

I am.

[Tim Pool]

You are.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm Korean.

[Tim Pool]

Do you have a Korean passport?

[Ian Crossland]

No.

[Tim Pool]

But only allowed to go if you have a passport outside of the U.S. that's not true. Trump implemented the ban in 2018. He said U.S. citizens were no longer allowed to travel to North Korea because of a. I don't think that's American citizen. Was a tourist.

[Billy Binion]

Auto warm the area.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

He got in trouble for, I believe, stealing a propaganda poster from his hotel room. They tortured him and killed him.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't think the United States has the authority to restrict its citizens from.

[Tim Pool]

Traveling places if you have a passport.

[Ian Crossland]

Oh, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Country. You may travel with that passport.

[Billy Binion]

There was a time when it's a crime.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. No, you're right. I was wrong.

[Tim Pool]

It's a crime on the US Side of things. So if you come home, they will arrest you.

[Phil Labonte]

You just have to get in touch with Dennis Rodman and have him chaperone the trip.

[Tim Pool]

Unless. Unless you have, like, some special permission. The State Department. Then they will allow you to do that for, like, journalists.

[Ian Crossland]

Oh, yeah. You. You are totally right. I was very wrong.

[Tim Pool]

Otherwise, I've looked into this deeply because I wanted.

[Phil Labonte]

Because I want to go.

[Tim Pool]

I wanted to go. But, yeah, we're banned. And I really hope to.

[Ian Crossland]

That we can go. The band, it says for journalistic reasons.

[Phil Labonte]

There you go.

[Tim Pool]

Well, yeah, but that. That introduces a whole lot of new pressures. I just wanted to, you know, see this. Nice.

[Billy Binion]

I think Americans should be avoiding North Korea and Russia and all these places to keep. But I'm looking for opportunities to either lock up or in the case of Ottawa mba, who we went to the same university and that was a huge. I mean that was. So he's like, I did not know him though. But I mean these places are authoritarian. Like that is what people talk about the word fascism. That is absolute fascism.

[Ian Crossland]

So the reason why they put the restriction in place is because it's, it's used as leverage against you. It's when they arrest an American citizen and they, they will, many, they then go to the US Government, say, and now you have to give us stuff. And Trump was like, screw this. Yeah, I didn't know that though.

[Tim Pool]

However, the guy should not have been trying to steal souvenirs to bring home because he was instructed not to do so.

[Ian Crossland]

Really? I don't even, do we even, I don't even think we have this on Iran, do we?

[Tim Pool]

No, no, I think it's just North Korea. Yeah, but you can also buy.

[Ian Crossland]

No, no, no.

[Tim Pool]

You can like buy it, buy an acre in Greece and get a passport in Greece. Like you can buy passports in other countries and use it that way. But I think it is still a federal crime for an American citizen to do that, to use that loophole.

[Ian Crossland]

So it has the same, it has a similar level of restriction, but you can actually personally choose without special visa to go to Iran. How about that?

[Phil Labonte]

Well, I don't want to anyways.

[Billy Binion]

I was going to say I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend that.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, I don't know why not.

[Phil Labonte]

Because I don't want to sit on a plane that long to go to an Islamic republic.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. What is that like?

[Ian Crossland]

What about Dubai?

[Phil Labonte]

Dubai might be fun.

[Ian Crossland]

I would love to go.

[Tim Pool]

Dubai scares me.

[Phil Labonte]

Does it?

[Tim Pool]

You heard about.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, women get raped and then go to prison for it.

[Phil Labonte]

Men and women are different. It's fine for me. You can't go.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

This is what I, this is what I love about Wokeness is like this, there's this 26. So when I was in Egypt, this 26 year old Dutch woman took it upon herself as a reporter to go into Tahrir Square and you know, she got gang raped. It's like, that's not what I love about it. My point is that Wokeness tells these women you can do anything you want and it's like, okay, well like men in Egypt will gang rape you.

[Tim Pool]

Even as a man, if you, if you travel to Dubai and you so much as get into a fender bender with a citizen there, you are going to get. Absolutely. Maybe by their legal system. Maybe because there's only priority given to their citizens.

[Ian Crossland]

Indeed. But if you're rich and you just pay money and they say keep it.

[Tim Pool]

Up, Depends how rich you need to be.

[Ian Crossland]

Exactly.

[Tim Pool]

You need to be a billionaire probably.

[Ian Crossland]

No, no.

[Billy Binion]

Isn't the idea though, the wokeism like men and women can do whatever like that they're equal in capabilities. Isn't that more about like, you know, denialism about sports and stuff?

[Phil Labonte]

No, no, no.

[Ian Crossland]

Let me tell you the case then.

[Phil Labonte]

If that were the case, then they wouldn't say that men can become women and women can become men. There's no difference.

[Ian Crossland]

When I did hostile environment training for combat zones, they were terrified to explain that women get raped in conflict zones.

[Billy Binion]

Because they were afraid of offending people.

[Ian Crossland]

Because they'd get sued for sexual discrimination by. By telling people in a training that women have certain restrictions. Men do not. They'd be sued in two seconds. So the funniest thing ever is someone asked, these are like special forces guys. And someone asked, do women face an increased risk of rape? And the guy started stuttering. I was like, I. Men get raped. Men get raped. They do. Men have a risk of rape. But, you know, it's an important thing to understand that anybody could be raped. And I was just like, holy. It's because the insurance company is like, listen, you are not legally allowed to say these things to people who are at a work event. It's. I'm like, okay, dude, breaking the law. Yeah. They did, however, to be fair, show a scenario where without stating it. So it actually was one of the most fun things I've ever done. I recommend it. If they let you do it. They, everybody wants to do. They're called, it's called heat training, but it's redundant because the team means training, hostile environment awareness training. It's. It's role playing. It's like extreme paintball. It's fun. And so while he was afraid to say it, what we did do was we had two vehicles in a convoy, one with the women, one with the men. And then a bunch of guys with guns in balaclavas jumped out pointing, pointing the guns at us and then took all the women into a shed where we heard them screaming. And then they didn't state it, but implied what was happening. And that was the training. And the takeaway from it was someone was like, what was the point of that training? And they were like, these things happen. That's it. Like, what do we do that scenario? And they were like, pray.

[Billy Binion]

So it was just to see, like, if you could handle. Withstand it emotionally.

[Ian Crossland]

So no, no, it's training. It's so that, like one of the things they did was they made us stand for several hours with bags over our heads, up against the wall with, like weird industrial sounds happening behind us.

[Billy Binion]

I don't like that.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. And they would, like, jab people. Nobody was really hurt, but it was basically like, if you get kidnapped, this is what it's going to be like. It was fun. They pulled it. They dragged me into a room, sit me down at a metal table with a chair, and then they pulled the bag off my head and there was a light at like head height, sitting down. And all I could see was, like the waists below. Three men yelling at me with accents.

[Billy Binion]

That was fun.

[Ian Crossland]

It was awesome. Oh, man.

[Billy Binion]

We have a different definition.

[Ian Crossland]

It's plain make believe. It was like Dungeons and Dragons for conflict reporting. You know what I mean? I was laughing. I was like, guys, this is silly. And they were like, who do you work for? And I was like, you're the guys training me. Like, is this not gonna work? And they were just like, answer the questions. I was like, sure. But it was fun. It was fun.

[Tim Pool]

Not just conflict zones, though. I mean, under no circumstances should a western woman travel to India.

[Ian Crossland]

Agreed.

[Tim Pool]

If you do, you got to bring a rape X which.

[Ian Crossland]

Oh, that. Is that. That thing with, like, the spikes in it.

[Billy Binion]

I actually just went to December and it was. It was. I went with a girlfriend and it was. She. It was delightful. And I don't think she ever felt. I think. I'm sure there are places where that is definitely true.

[Tim Pool]

Glad you were there.

[Ian Crossland]

The. The rapex thing is the inverse condom with spikes in it. Yes. Is that what you're talking about?

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Ian Crossland]

What I've read is that the women who do that just get murdered.

[Tim Pool]

Upon the.

[Ian Crossland]

Like, when. When the guy. Yeah. So for those that aren't familiar, it's. It's like, don't you think they'd be.

[Tim Pool]

A little distracted with the fact that they're. Dick just got stabbed?

[Ian Crossland]

Nope. So. So. Because what happens is apparently for those that are familiar with the device, it's got barbs in it. So when the dude tries to, you know, violate the woman, he. He enters into this condom which has spikes on it. You can't pull it off because the barbs go inside you. And so what I've actually read from this is the men immediately just mercilessly beat the women to death.

[Tim Pool]

Wow. You'd think that the Pain of the barbs would kind of distract you for a moment at least.

[Phil Labonte]

Adrenaline is a crazy thing.

[Ian Crossland]

What's up?

[Billy Binion]

Where is this common?

[Ian Crossland]

I don't know where it's common, but they sell these things. Yeah, they're called rape X's or whatever.

[Tim Pool]

I don't know if they ever actually went to market. I think it was just a prototype.

[Ian Crossland]

But there are a lot of stories.

[Tim Pool]

About go to India.

[Billy Binion]

I enjoyed India.

[Ian Crossland]

There was a story about man, I should probably say this for the uncensored show, but let's just say that there's a lot of stories from India where women resist and get murdered. And like, the stories are nuts.

[Tim Pool]

I don't want them immigrating here either.

[Ian Crossland]

I'll say this one for the uncensored because this is not for anyone who's young to hear. Yo, these stories are crazy. So we're gonna go to your chats, smash the like button, share the show with literally everyone you know and join us for the uncensored call in [e-mail] timcast irl at 10pm where we'll talk more about this awful stuff, I guess. But for now we'll just read what you guys have to say.

[Tim Pool]

Things are kind of dark there.

[Ian Crossland]

Oh man, wait. Wait till I tell you this story. Shane. It's wilder says. Tim, last night you mentioned culture war live August 2nd. When will tickets be available and where might a gentleman or lady procured one or more of these tickets? Consider this rant promo for the culture War. Okay, well we've got, what is it? DC Comedy. Let me pull it up. DC Comedy Loft. We have three dates. I will stress these are intended to be political shows that are funny. So that's why of course Alex Stein and I are the hosts. August 2nd is the, is the confirmed event we have so far. It's Michael Malice and Angry Cop. So pro cop, anti cop, anarchist, pro cop, detective. And they're both really, really funny guys. So we know this is going to be a comedy event and we're going have a lot of fun. That's August 2nd. We have some ideas for who we've got for the 9th and the 26th so far, but we're not entirely sure. But these are, these are all in Washington D.C. at the. The Comedy Loft. Tickets are 30 bucks. There's a two drink minimum, 18 and up for entry. You'll get a WristBand. If you're 21, you can drink. However, if you go to TimCast.com and you are a member, we have 30 reserved seats free, four members first come, first serve. And I, I don't know which ones are available to get right now, but you can go and check that out. That does literally mean if you go to timcast.com and become a member, for 10 bucks you can get a ticket. So if you, if you want to buy any one of the available tickets, I think we've got, I think it, they mentioned this that there are some like premium seats, I guess and we do have some stuff for our elite members which we'll, we'll get to later. But you know, There you go. Timcast.com and dccomedyloft.com in the event section somewhere. Is it there it is. Yeah. If you go to event special event, July 26, August 9. And we're probably gonna do a bunch of them here because the goal for these shows is for them to be political debates that are fun, funny and entertaining. So obviously we ask Alex Stein to come and co host so he can bring the, the levity. But the funny thing is the first one we did live, he was actually trying to calm everyone else down. He was like, these guys are crazy. But we were laughing and having a good time. All right. Janet's water says I strike my previous rant. Tickets procured. Well, there you go. I do think we have like, there's like 200 seat. These, I'm not entirely sure. I think it's like a 200 seater. But we've got flyers coming out soon. I don't know, maybe I'm not supposed to announce. It's at 3pm and the reason it's at 3pm is that we expect to have after events of some sort of. So it's going to be a lot of fun. You'll be in D.C. it'll be 5pm we'll wrap up and then we are going to be working with the Tim Cast Discord server on bringing out the Discord server talent to actually host the after party and events themselves. Like Roman Nation, among others. Yeah. All right. Spicy pork skin says Phil Labonte is responsible for the USS Liberty.

[Tim Pool]

True.

[Phil Labonte]

What is that? What does that mean? Does it mean that am I responsible for the. The Liberty sinking? Am I one of the guys that was attacking?

[Ian Crossland]

No, no, you're responsible for the creation of it.

[Phil Labonte]

Oh, okay.

[Ian Crossland]

Phil. Phil went back in time.

[Phil Labonte]

I was the guy that built it. Perfect. All right.

[Ian Crossland]

Amtrue just posted a bunch of twenties because we have the twenty in the background. So behind Billy over here you have that 20. You can see so on one side it's a one. On this side, it's a 20. And during the culture war live, we give these out. So during the debate, if you agree, you hold up the 20, and if you disagree, you hold up the one.

[Phil Labonte]

It's fun.

[Ian Crossland]

Yep. All right. Bulldog Patriot says, you need to make a distinction between illegal and legal immigration. People that want to come here should do so legally, and we welcome them. Keep calling it immigration to confuse and mislead.

[Phil Labonte]

We. We don't welcome them. Just carte blanche. Like, we should be actually selective about who we allow to immigrate to the United States. It shouldn't just be, oh, you got here and you dropped your bag on the shores. Welcome to the United States. That's unacceptable. We should be extremely selective, because in my opinion, we're the best country in the world. We're the place that everyone wants to go to. We have the most opportunity of probably anywhere in the world. Maybe you can make some arguments about some other places, but either way, the people of the United States have the right to say, this is what we expect of people that immigrate here. And it's ridiculous to assert otherwise.

[Ian Crossland]

So I will also add, as an aside, the DC Comedy loft has a full kitchen. I'm just looking at it right now. And they got garlic truffle fries. I'm like, this is going to be awesome.

[Phil Labonte]

They got chicken wings, Tim.

[Ian Crossland]

That's going to be great. I should. I should actually have them make me some, and I'll put them on the table during the show and be, like, dipping a barbecue buffalo all over my hands.

[Phil Labonte]

Bring a big old thing of wet.

[Ian Crossland]

Wipes, sweet chili, Brussels sprouts. Dude, I'm excited for this event.

[Phil Labonte]

Excited for dinner.

[Ian Crossland]

That's true. All right, let's go. Let's go. GG Willow says Chad, GPD says no, this doesn't qualify as sedition. Don't care. All right, let's do this. The definition of sedition, conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch. So when a guy says that we are going to defy the federal laws of this country and obstruct its law enforcement, I think that qualifies.

[Billy Binion]

I don't think any prosecutor would bring the case.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, because they're cowards, though. You know what I mean? Incitement or resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority. Wow. That's the Merriam Webster definition of insurrection. That literally qualifies.

[Billy Binion]

I think you would have a case maybe if you found him, like, literally hiding people in his house, but that's. I don't Think that's what he. I, I. To be honest, I don't even know if he really knew what he meant when he said that, but I don't think it's a case of criminal sedition.

[Ian Crossland]

Let's see, Wex law. Where's the actual. Okay, that's not the law. That's a. Here we go. Treason and sedition. Seditious. If two or more persons in any state or territory, in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the US Conspire to overthrow, put down or destroy by force the government United States or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law, or by force to seize, take or possess any property, they shall each be fined to this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years or both. So literally, it is legal sedition.

[Billy Binion]

I interpret his comments as, you know, a lot of people, you know, like the idea of a sanctuary city, and people have strong thoughts on sanctuary cities. But a politician declaring a city a sanctuary city is not a crime. And local governments are not required to enforce federal immigration law. So that's what I'm saying. Like if you, if you are picturing him showing up to an ice at a, @ a sting or something and like, blocking them from entering or if he's like hiding them in his car, that would be one thing.

[Ian Crossland]

You want to read that line for me? What does that say?

[Phil Labonte]

I delay the execution of any law of the United States.

[Billy Binion]

I promise you, no prosecutor would bring this case.

[Ian Crossland]

That's not the argument. You said it wasn't sedition. It is condition by definition. We that's it. A fact statement.

[Tim Pool]

Is your objection about how likely it is or about the actual application of.

[Billy Binion]

The law or delay the execution of any law? I mean, the Supreme Court has already confirmed that a local, Local authorities don't have to or they don't have to execute federal immigration law.

[Ian Crossland]

I think you are intentionally changing the argument because you've lost it.

[Billy Binion]

What am I changing?

[Ian Crossland]

The argument is that he stated he will stop them from removing our families and protect illegal immigrants in New York City, the implication of which is he will intentionally, through the structures of New York City, delay the execution or stop by force or prevent or oppose the. For like, literally. How about this? Here's this line. Read that one.

[Billy Binion]

Well, this is what I'm saying.

[Ian Crossland]

Oppose by force the authority thereof.

[Billy Binion]

I'm just saying that there's a distinction between two different types of conduct. So I'm saying I agree with you that if he literally uses his body or is hiding immigrants in his house or something, then yes, that would be a crime. What I'm saying is not a crime is declining to cooperate with ICE when they're doing these things, which a lot of local politicians do, and they get criticized for it, but it's not a crime.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, so let's try this. If two or more persons in any state or territory or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, cut all the commas out, delay the execution of any law of the United States, we can just say that. And when this dude and his administration does make an attempt to delay, at bare minimum, the laws of the United States, its addition, it's not more than 20 years. So it could be one year. You could be fined. They don't give a number on what should be fined. But yeah, that's sedition. This is the issue I take with a lot of people. They always say treason because the penalty for treason is like 10 years in prison or death. And it's like, no, no, no. Sedition is very broad. It just basically means like you're, you're opposing the authority of the US Government. It's not like you get the death penalty for sedition.

[Billy Binion]

The maximum government power. Aren't you, I think of someone who is skeptical of government power. What does that mean, skeptical of government using or weaponizing its powers in ways that are very vague and broad. Is that not something that bothers you? Like, I need something more concrete than he delayed the execution of. What does that even mean?

[Ian Crossland]

Who cares? It's the law. 1956, 1948, 1994. So if you have a problem with the codification of law, then the argument is change the law, I guess. Well, I'm not for the time being. When the Democrats tried to imprison Donald Trump's lawyers and claimed it's because his lawyers are criminals, when they raided his home because he had a bunch of old boxes of presidential briefings that they claimed was him stealing confidential information. When they falsely accused him of rape, when they falsely accused him of fraud. I just wonder why you don't see the red line having already been crossed.

[Billy Binion]

Oh, see, but I, I did cover the New York case. I thought it was atrocious. I thought it was a pure example of over criminalization. I thought it was a ridiculous case. I'm happy to send you my.

[Ian Crossland]

And this is within the law.

[Billy Binion]

I'm promising you that.

[Ian Crossland]

Are we going to sit back and just say the Democrats and their, their, their, their entrenched Establishment affiliates like billionaires, super PACs, etc. We will do literal nothing with them. Allowing 10 plus million people to cross the border and falsely levying charges against American citizens, hunting them down across the country, and unconstitutionally targeting the. The. The front runner for the Republican Party. Like the things that they did in the past four years were beyond sedition. It is the utmost of extreme degrees of sedition, and nothing so far has been done. Cash has released some information so far. I look forward to seeing what happens. But is the argument that we should just let it, Let them do it, or should we charge them?

[Billy Binion]

Let them do what?

[Ian Crossland]

Like, should anybody go to prison for criminally charging Trump's lawyers under rico?

[Billy Binion]

Should they go to prison for that? I mean, malicious prosecution? Important point. Prosecutors overcharge people all of the time.

[Ian Crossland]

We're not talking about overcharging. We're talking about a political organization trying to win the presidency. Arresting Donald Trump's lawyers under trumped up RICO charges so that they would disperse, they would disassociate from his campaign, hindering his ability to win, and he won the popular vote. I think they should go to prison for that.

[Billy Binion]

I don't think there's a criminal law you could prosecute them under. And I'm against lawfare, no matter what party, whether it's a Republican or a Democrat. I mean, I don't think we should be bringing ideologically motivated charges, even if their conduct was insane. And I will say I have written my story of my career about how prosecutors are up and what they bring crazy.

[Ian Crossland]

What do you do? So now that we both agree the Democrats shouldn't have done that, what's the penalty for them having done that?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, unfortunately, it's very hard to hold government agents accountable.

[Ian Crossland]

So you don't care that they did it? You think there's no remedy at all? It's a remedy.

[Billy Binion]

I told you that I thought the case in New York was totally.

[Ian Crossland]

What's the remedy?

[Billy Binion]

What's the remedy for a prosecutor bringing a bull case? There are a lot of people who've had that happen to them, and there is no remedy.

[Ian Crossland]

So you think it's bull. So your assessment of situation is, wow, I can't believe they did that evil thing.

[Billy Binion]

I've written mine. I wrote a long feature a few years ago about absolute immunity and how it puts prosecutors above the law and how that's a travesty of justice.

[Ian Crossland]

All right, so what I find fascinating is. Let's talk about Ironheart. Ironheart just came out. And actually, I don't think it's that.

[Tim Pool]

Bad for this segue.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't think it's that bad, actually.

[Tim Pool]

Let's see you tie this together well.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, so the bad guys in the Ironheart show first. I don't know. It's a new. It's the new Disney Marvel show. The bad guys, their ultimate plan for stealing money. You're gonna love this. They just point guns at rich people and say, sign a contract that gives me money.

[Tim Pool]

So it's not even, like, at the level of Mr. Robot where they, like, hack.

[Ian Crossland]

They do, but it seems completely immaterial.

[Tim Pool]

They have, like, a drag queen do that, you know, hack of frame.

[Ian Crossland]

And then the bad guy can become invisible. And then he appears in front of him and he goes, sign this contract that gives me money. And she goes, oh, you got me. And she signs it as if the.

[Tim Pool]

Stroke of the pen actually, like, makes something happen.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, I think you agree with that. You believe that the world is constricted between the. By the strokes of pens, and that the argument is Democrats violated the Constitution, violated the rights of American citizens, tried to steal the presidency, but there's nothing written down by Penn that allows us to do anything about it. So we do nothing.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, if you are really upset with our behavior, you don't vote them back into office.

[Ian Crossland]

So the argument is what would like.

[Billy Binion]

To see done that you would like to see them go to prison?

[Ian Crossland]

Most of them, yeah. Some of them can get fines. Some of them can get some type of, like, censure.

[Billy Binion]

What is the criminal charge?

[Ian Crossland]

Oh, man. I suppose we'd go with sedition. We could argue that the front runner for the presidency of a major political party being falsely charged by these individuals was an attempt to overthrow the United States, which it literally says conspire to overthrow.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, he was convicted by a jury.

[Ian Crossland]

I would. I would make. Well, if we're talking about the fraud case or the civil case, I'm talking.

[Billy Binion]

About the case in New York City.

[Ian Crossland]

So you're talking about civil fraud.

[Billy Binion]

Let's talk about the case the 34 felony charges about. Change the records case.

[Ian Crossland]

Yes. Okay. So a jury can convict. Fine. But those charges can't be applied because there were no felonies.

[Phil Labonte]

Not felonies.

[Ian Crossland]

So these were. This was a case.

[Billy Binion]

There were felony charges.

[Phil Labonte]

There has to be an underlying. No, there has to be an underlying crime for those misdemeanors to be raised to the level of felony. And there was no underlying crime.

[Billy Binion]

So that is a. That is a disagreement about the application of the law. And Like I said, I thought that this. That case was especially for people who claim to care about. Let me just finish. I'll just get this out real quick. People who claim to care about over criminalization. You know, Alvin Bragg ran as a progressive prosecutor. Caring about. I mean, this was a. It was a. There were bookkeeping offenses, but the convictions were still. They were felony counts.

[Phil Labonte]

Oh, they were.

[Ian Crossland]

They were.

[Phil Labonte]

There has those bookkeeping errors or whatever you want to call them. There has to be an underlying crime to raise them to a level.

[Ian Crossland]

So. So this is.

[Phil Labonte]

They implied that there was a crime, but there was no actual crime committed.

[Ian Crossland]

The government can't just claim.

[Billy Binion]

I'm just talking about what was he actually. And he was convicted of 34.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay.

[Billy Binion]

On May 30th.

[Ian Crossland]

So if you. If you agree with that, do you think that they had the right to bring those charges?

[Billy Binion]

Do I think they have the right to bring those charges? I mean, prosecutors operate under, I mean, what's called prosecutorial discretion.

[Ian Crossland]

Based on the charges. Okay. Like, bro, you keep trying to obfuscate wishy wash and avoid the question. It is simple. They brought 34 felony charges against Trump, Okay. Based on the charges that they levied, do you think the prosecutor had the right to indict Trump to bring those charges?

[Billy Binion]

Yes, I do.

[Ian Crossland]

Then I believe. Because if we're only talking about who has the willingness to jam their fist up the ass of their opponents, then I can charge anybody the fuck I want with sedition, because the law said that in order for those to be felonies, there must be an underlying crime for which the misdemeanor was committed, which there was not. Never filed once. And it was only in the court when. When the judge gave instructions to the jury, he said, make up if you want. So technically, under the color of law, the prosecutor had no legal authority whatsoever, as the law is written, to bring felony charges against Trump. They were misdemeanors.

[Billy Binion]

It was a novel reading of the law.

[Ian Crossland]

No, it wasn't.

[Billy Binion]

That was. That I thought was wrong.

[Ian Crossland]

You are wrong. You are flat out wrong. The law, the laws by which Donald Trump was charged was that he falsified business records. To be a felony, it must be falsification of business records in furtherance of another crime. The government has to convict you of that crime first. They did not. So they brought false felony charges against Trump. But if that's where we're at as a country, then fuck all. I don't give a shit. I'll bring sedition to every motherfucker's doorstep. Because it doesn't matter. It's just who's willing to send the guys with the badges to go make the arrests. And I'm down.

[Billy Binion]

So the underlying. The underlying felony in the case, the records were falsified to cover up a conspiracy to unlawfully influence the 2016 election.

[Phil Labonte]

But he was never.

[Ian Crossland]

When was he convicted.

[Phil Labonte]

Convicted of those things, though.

[Ian Crossland]

So the government can say you committed a crime. We don't need to prove it. We don't need a jury. And now we're going to upgrade the charges against you.

[Billy Binion]

So let me give you an example of how this applies in a different context. Something called felony murder. Are you familiar with felony murder? So you don't actually have to commit murder to be convicted of felony murder. You just have to be convicted of something else.

[Ian Crossland]

If felony murder typically means that if you are in the act of committing a crime and someone dies, that you are charged under felony murder. Right.

[Billy Binion]

So I'm saying the. The. You don't have to literally be convicted of the. Of murder itself.

[Ian Crossland]

Now read the jury. The judge. Instructions to the jury.

[Billy Binion]

Oh, I think that. Judge, I don't disagree with you.

[Ian Crossland]

Where the jury was told to choose whatever underlying crime they thought occurred.

[Phil Labonte]

And the point.

[Ian Crossland]

So how about I do this?

[Billy Binion]

I don't agree with it.

[Ian Crossland]

By all means. You don't. But you believe he had a right to bring those charges. And if that is true, then I or anyone else with the legal authority could bring sedition charges and simply tell the jury, you tell me where you think the conspiracy may have happened. We don't care. Say yes and there can be.

[Billy Binion]

I don't think they started. It is. I just. I think that leads to a dangerous place. I really do. I think they. They did a bad thing. So I'll do one back. I don't like it.

[Ian Crossland]

Who said doing anything bad. Do you think that if someone commits a crime, they should be held accountable.

[Billy Binion]

If there is an applicable criminal law?

[Ian Crossland]

So this is the problem I have with your moral worldview. They have clearly done something wrong. It's unquestionable.

[Billy Binion]

They arrested some people would question it.

[Ian Crossland]

No, it's unquestionable. And anybody's questioning is lying. Like Jenna Ellis getting charged twice under RICO for simply drafting a legal letter at the behest of a client is.

[Billy Binion]

Not a talking about a different case. Now that's a different indeed.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. So let's talk about this. They criminally charged Jenna Ellis under RICO two counts because Trump requested that she draft a letter to challenge an election.

[Billy Binion]

Is that a crime to be Honest, I wasn't. I wasn't as familiar with the rico.

[Ian Crossland]

The answer is, no, it's not. But they argued because the letter was, Was. Was part of Trump's illegal plot to overthrow the election. By simply being a lawyer, filling out a. Filing a letter for a client. You are now party to a conspiracy, so they charge you with two counts of rico. And we all know how the prosecution works. She pleaded guilty and cried on tv, and I think it was pathetic. After raising hundreds of thousands of dollars. That is unconstitutional. You have a right to lawyers in this country, do you not?

[Billy Binion]

Of course you do.

[Ian Crossland]

So when Trump hired a lawyer and they criminally charged his lawyers in Georgia and Wisconsin, what they were doing is unconstitutional and I would argue seditious. An attempt to steal the power of the United States presidency. By going after Trump's lawyers, he is constitutionally and legally has a right to have.

[Billy Binion]

I'm not super familiar with the RICO case, but I will just keep reiterating that prosecutors make egregious charging decisions all the time. And if there is something that we can agree on, it's that I hope people care about this all the time and not when they're just public figures. A lot of these. Well, a lot of these stories never make it. And this is what I spent a lot of my career covering. A lot of these cases where they're. Where people are charged with ridiculous crimes, were overcharged in an attempt often to make them plead guilty, to scare them into pleading guilty, because they say, okay, I can either go to prison for 25 years or I can take the guilty plea for five years. I know I'm innocent of this crime, but I don't want to gamble 20 years of my life away. I mean, these are problems that I really think Republicans, Democrats, everyone can come together and say that, and you're not something I'm comfortable with.

[Ian Crossland]

But your argument is, we know they do it, but so what?

[Billy Binion]

That's not my. I spent my entire career writing about prosecutors being above the law and how it's atrocious.

[Ian Crossland]

So what. What is writing going to do?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I'm trying to bring awareness.

[Ian Crossland]

But you don't want law enforcement against it.

[Billy Binion]

I am. I don't think the only. The only. I mean, all these cases are different, but I don't support bringing retaliatory charges when they're not appropriate.

[Ian Crossland]

So if someone murders someone, charging the murderer is retaliatory?

[Billy Binion]

No, of course I want to charge murderers with murder.

[Ian Crossland]

So when someone commits. Engages in a conspiracy to try and overthrow The US Government charging them in any way is retaliatory.

[Billy Binion]

Problem is a lot of people would disagree with your.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't care who agrees or disagrees. They did it well. Why was Joe Biden not criminally charged on the documents and Trump was?

[Billy Binion]

I can actually answer that. I read the report from Robert her and he said because he didn't think a jury would convict because Biden comes across as a senile old man. And that is a decision. I mean prosecutors make decisions all the time. And if they look at a case and they say they have enormous discretion and if they look at a case and say no jury will convict on this, they usually don't bring the case because they government resources are scrapped. I'm not.

[Ian Crossland]

So is there an issue then when we see like I don't know, ENRIQUE Tario getting 20 years in prison.

[Billy Binion]

I wrote about that.

[Ian Crossland]

Despite not being so when they're clearly engaging in a pattern of behavior, your argument is it's retaliation if we try and hold them accountable.

[Billy Binion]

Well, these are different prosecutors doing different things. But I will, I mean say a lot of prosecutors have this in common and as for low level offenses for.

[Ian Crossland]

Medium only in one direction.

[Billy Binion]

That's not true. It happens all across the country.

[Ian Crossland]

Can you people, can you name an antifa individual who got 20 years in prison?

[Billy Binion]

There are a bunch of people that are prosecuted in New York, a couple under terrorism charges actually.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. How many years the Molotov cocktail lawyers get?

[Billy Binion]

Do not exactly. I cannot tell you the exact prison sentence.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, I wrote about the slap on the wrist.

[Billy Binion]

I wrote about the terror case because he was offered I think a 12 year plea bargain and then he was punished for going to trial. And no matter what you think about him, that's wrong. And I think everyone should think that's wrong. What I don't care which defendant it is, it's wrong.

[Ian Crossland]

When you look at the Donald Trump, what they did to him and his lawyers, they arrested him, falsely charged him. Is your argument we can't do anything about what has happened?

[Billy Binion]

My argument is that would they didn't commit a crime by bringing a flimsy.

[Ian Crossland]

Case then I would not be committing a crime either to bring a flimsy case against them.

[Billy Binion]

No, you would not be bringing.

[Ian Crossland]

I mean so then why not do it?

[Billy Binion]

Well, I mean because like I said, I don't think we started it as a good is something that carries much currency past a certain age.

[Ian Crossland]

So your argument is surrender.

[Billy Binion]

It's not surrendering, it's principles.

[Ian Crossland]

Do you think they're Gonna stop doing it. Do you think the people who tried to imprison Trump's lawyers have. Have completely stopped their efforts to use any means necessary to stop their political opponents? Do you think they went, drat? We tried arresting him and his lawyers. It didn't work. I guess we'll give up. Or do you think in the next several years they're gonna keep going about those strategies?

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I think some. I think especially in the Georgia. The Georgia case was, you know, according to legal analysts, the strongest criminal case against Trump, specifically. I don't. I don't know how strong, particularly was against his attorneys. But, no, there is nothing that can be done to prosecute a prosecutor for prosecuting a case that you didn't like.

[Ian Crossland]

All right, let's do this. Let's compromise. I say the DOJ should start arresting the lawyers for any Democrat. And it's not retaliatory. It's just precedent, right? It is the way law operates.

[Billy Binion]

No, I mean, so only Democrats get.

[Ian Crossland]

To arrest Republican lawyers. What's your argument?

[Billy Binion]

No, my argument is that, well, they're doing off air is bad no matter what it is, and I don't want to.

[Ian Crossland]

What do you do about Democrats engaging in lawfare?

[Billy Binion]

Vote Alvin Bragg out of office.

[Ian Crossland]

He's not a pro. We're talking about multiple states.

[Billy Binion]

We're talking about the New York case, which is the one I'm familiar with. And I covered the.

[Ian Crossland]

And you think it was actually New Yorkers are upset that Alvin Bragg brought.

[Billy Binion]

I think there was a big chance he'll lose, maybe not because of that, but because I don't know that he's a very popular prosecutor overall.

[Ian Crossland]

Do you know what form shopping is?

[Billy Binion]

I'm not familiar with the term.

[Ian Crossland]

So when people bring lawsuits or criminal charges, they intentionally choose jurisdiction, jurisdictions where they know the jury will favor them politically. Everyone engaging in any lawsuit, the first question asked by your lawyer is going to be, so when we are watching Democrat jurisdictions bring charges against Republican lawyers, should we just sit back as they keep doing it? They're going to keep doing it. They are doing it. What should we do? Nothing.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, I think the. The prosecutions that were bought recently against Trump were very specific. And I have not seen. I'm saying it was a specific scenario. Do you see anyone getting prosecuted right now that this applies to?

[Ian Crossland]

I'm talking about his lawyers. Because I said we'll agree to go. When you want to make an argument about Trump, let's set that aside.

[Billy Binion]

Okay.

[Ian Crossland]

When they arrested his lawyers in Wisconsin and Atlanta, Democrats did that. That's just the way the law works. Prosecutors can do it. Why would it be considered retaliation if the DOJ or any other Republican state started bringing charges against Democrat political lawyers? That's just the way the law works. You agree, right?

[Billy Binion]

I'm saying I don't like that because I don't like lawfare applied to anyone. And I'm not going to relinquish that principle. Here's what I might. Or just like someone.

[Ian Crossland]

So the question you have not answered after 20 minutes of me asking is Democrats are doing it. What is your remedy if they should not.

[Billy Binion]

I cannot give you a remedy that will satisfy you. I mean, the stuff I've written about.

[Ian Crossland]

With remedy is there at all. Give me anything. I don't care about being satisfied.

[Billy Binion]

If prosecutors legitimately violate the Constitution, I think you should be able to sue them. And I've written about that for years. Right now, absolute immunity allows prosecutors to. To get away with. With coercing witnesses, knowingly introducing false testimony, hiding evidence that is exculpatory for the defendants, which means some evidence that might help them. The Supreme Court has said that you cannot bring any sort of civil suit against them when that happens. And I think that's egregious, because if someone who has the most. The prosecutor is arguably the most powerful politician.

[Ian Crossland]

Let's slow down. We're gonna go to the uncensored show. But real quick. So is to clarify with the prosecutors who are in protected liberal jurisdictions intentionally, where they won't be voted out, who arrested Trump's lawyers? The remedy would be for someone who has standing to sue those prosecutors and seek remedy through a superior court.

[Billy Binion]

This is my position. If someone breaks the law, they should be arrested and held accountable. If someone violates the Constitution, you should be able to sue them. That's my position.

[Ian Crossland]

You said prosecutors are allowed to do. It's not unconstitutional.

[Billy Binion]

No, I'm saying absolute immunity protects them. When they do violate the Constitution, they have absolute immunity.

[Ian Crossland]

Is it. Is it violating the Constitution to accuse Trump's lawyers of a crime?

[Billy Binion]

No.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay. Is it violate the law in any way to. To indict Trump's lawyers or Republican lawyers?

[Billy Binion]

Does it violate the law to indict someone? It does not violate the law to indict.

[Ian Crossland]

Should Democrat prosecutors be targeting Republican politician lawyers?

[Billy Binion]

No, I don't. What is the lender is an actual case?

[Ian Crossland]

What is the remedy to stop someone from doing something they should not be doing if it doesn't violate the law and it doesn't violate the Constitution?

[Billy Binion]

You're welcome to arrest someone if they've actually broken the law.

[Ian Crossland]

I just asked you what the remedies. I'd ask you to arrest them.

[Billy Binion]

I'm telling you the remedy for breaking the law is being arrested and violating the Constitution. I think you should be able to sue them. That's my answer.

[Ian Crossland]

So I asked you.

[Billy Binion]

I've answered it several times. You just don't like my answer.

[Ian Crossland]

No, you didn't answer. I'm trying to ask you again, if it is not. It is not illegal to charge Trump's lawyers, Correct?

[Billy Binion]

It is. If they committed a crime, it is not illegal to charge them.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, so let's pause. I am no longer. And this is not about whether a prosecutor broke the law. So set that aside, because that's what you were answering, and we're not talking about that. Is it unconstitutional for a prosecutor to charge a politician's lawyer?

[Billy Binion]

No.

[Ian Crossland]

So we were no longer in the realm of unconstitutional or illegal, just plain immoral? Yes.

[Billy Binion]

Yes.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay. What is the remedy for when prosecutors in liberal jurisdictions are committing immoral actions against their political opponents? Lawyers?

[Billy Binion]

Unfortunately, a lot of government employees act immorally, and there isn't a lot you can do.

[Ian Crossland]

So there is no remedy.

[Billy Binion]

If we're going to keep coming back to this, if someone didn't violate the Constitution and didn't violate the law, unfortunately for the little guy, there isn't that much you can do.

[Ian Crossland]

So my argument would be, if this is not illegal, it is not unconstitutional, and it is only questionably immoral to some people, then you should have absolutely no problem with me arresting their lawyers.

[Billy Binion]

Do you think it's immoral?

[Ian Crossland]

I think it should be completely illegal. I would argue it's conspiracy to overthrow the government.

[Billy Binion]

Do you think it's immoral?

[Ian Crossland]

I think it's immoral, illegal and unconstitutional.

[Billy Binion]

And you shouldn't be doing it, too.

[Ian Crossland]

I think that when we are targeting someone who broke the law, we are not. We are not retaliating. We are upholding justice.

[Billy Binion]

Well, that's the question that we're talking here, is we've already established they didn't.

[Ian Crossland]

Break the law agreement, and if they're not doing anything functionally wrong through government, why do you have a problem with me arresting them?

[Billy Binion]

Because I think principles don't mean anything if you don't apply them consistently.

[Ian Crossland]

It is consistent. You guys are targeting your guys.

[Billy Binion]

I'm not one of them.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm not saying you. I'm saying to these people, they are targeting their political opponents. And I say, okay, they should be arrested. That's A crime. Well, I interpret what they do as a crime the same way they interpret what Jenna Ellis says as a crime. Nothing's illegal, immortal, or unconstitutional. So we charge them.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, the crime.

[Ian Crossland]

You are trying so hard to defend what they did, it's insane.

[Billy Binion]

No, I'm defending.

[Ian Crossland]

Just say this. Democrats and Republicans are allowed to arrest each other's lawyers. That's your standard. That's fine. I don't understand why your standard is Democrats can arrest Republicans, Republicans can arrest Democrats.

[Billy Binion]

That's not my. That's not my.

[Ian Crossland]

Okay, then they're allowed to arrest each other. Yes.

[Billy Binion]

If they broke the law.

[Ian Crossland]

Yes. And they can interpret as they see fit. If the law was broken.

[Billy Binion]

The law is not a magical social construct. You could. If you. If, if one of them broke the law, you can bring them in front of a grand jury and see if they'll indict them.

[Ian Crossland]

Agreed. So I don't know why you keep arguing against Republicans charging them for doing it. They're allowed to. It's not immoral. It's not unconstitutional. It's not illegal.

[Billy Binion]

We just established that it is immoral. Law for.

[Ian Crossland]

No, no, no, no. It's immoral to unjustly trump up charges against someone. It is not immoral to criminally charge someone for what you interpret to be a crime. So if what they did to them, they interpret as legal, I can interpret my actions against them all the same. Because they're being charged for a crime.

[Billy Binion]

You would need to speak to a prosecutor because they're the people who actually understand the confines of the criminal statutes. But, I mean, it would have to fit into a criminal statute. And I agree with you that if they violated one, you can arrest someone for breaking the law. I support holding people accountable.

[Ian Crossland]

The issue that I take is that the whole conversation, your position is Democrats did it, and it's too bad they did, and Republicans can't do anything about it.

[Billy Binion]

I told you, I'm not familiar enough with the RICO case. A lot of people, as a lot.

[Ian Crossland]

Of analysts talking about everything that happened, including.

[Billy Binion]

I'm just saying. Well, you keep talking about the ricoco, talking about his lawyers. A lot of people, including conservative legal analysts, have said that the Florida and Georgia cases were the strongest against him. Specifically. I agree. Totally plausible to me that his lawyers were either unfairly charged or overcharged so that they would take a plea and turn on him. When it comes to arresting someone for, like, bringing the New York case, that in my, in my opinion, was like, total crap. And, you know, they had to contort the law to bring the case, I think that's wrong. But it is not a violation of the law for the pro for a prosecutor to make a really bad charging decision. So they do it all the time.

[Ian Crossland]

So I don't understand why you're saying we can't charge Bragg.

[Billy Binion]

Because I disagree. No matter who it's being done to, I disagree when a crazy case is brought against Trump in New York. And I disagree.

[Ian Crossland]

So they keep doing it and we can't do anything about it.

[Billy Binion]

I mean, someone should take the high road, I think.

[Ian Crossland]

So you'll stand there and get beaten to death. You'll end up in prison. Your friends and family will be in jail. And you say, but I took the high road the whole time.

[Billy Binion]

Did Trump go to prison?

[Ian Crossland]

He went to. He got arrested.

[Billy Binion]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

He ended up winning. Actually, they only suspended the case because the case is still in with. Is still waiting for judgment. Right.

[Billy Binion]

But what I'm saying is I am not yet confident that we are at a place where people are just being like, Republicans are being thrown in prison or Democrats are being thrown in prison. Right and left. You know, if we want to talk about, like the January 6th thing, do I think there were some overcharging decisions?

[Ian Crossland]

Some.

[Billy Binion]

I think there were some overcharging decisions, yes.

[Ian Crossland]

And even. Even after the Supreme Court said you can't use the obstruction charge, they refused to let people go.

[Billy Binion]

Additionally, I agree with that decision, by the way. One of the opinions was written by.

[Ian Crossland]

Jackson and there were numerous individuals who were denied access to evidence. So the government was under the Biden doj withholding evidence that was exculpatory. These are all evil. These are all evil deeds.

[Billy Binion]

I don't disagree with you that prosecutors often act very. In very evil and unsavory ways.

[Ian Crossland]

And there's no remedy. So I guess we're just screwed. We got to go to the uncensored show.

[Billy Binion]

So my abolish absolute immunity.

[Ian Crossland]

Smash the like button. Share the show with everyone you know. We're going to go to the uncensored show where we'll continue the conversation and take your calls. You can follow me on X and Instagram at Tim Cast Billy. Do you want to shout anything out?

[Billy Binion]

I am at X Instagram. Billy Binion. That is my real name. It sounds like a comic book character. I know. And then at Reason magazine.

[Ian Crossland]

Right on.

[Tim Pool]

You can send me validation on Instagram at Mary Archived. Or you can send me Hate on X that is also Mary Archived and help me get Tick Tock famous. That is also Mary Archived. And go subscribe to Pop Culture Crisis. We go live every Monday through Friday at 3pm Eastern. We're also on Rumble, so go follow us there.

[Phil Labonte]

I am Phil that Remains on Twix. I'm Phil that Remains official on Instagram. The band is all that remains. Our new record is entitled Antifragile. It's available on YouTube, Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify and Deezer. Do not forget the left lane is for crime.

[Ian Crossland]

We will see you [e-mail] timcast IR rumble.com timcast IRL in about 30 seconds. Thanks for hanging out. SA.