LEAKED Memo Says NO BACK PAY For Federal Workers Amid Government Shutdown w/ Matt Gaetz, Dave DeCamp, Curtis Mills

Summary

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Timcast IRL: LEAKED Memo Says NO BACK PAY For Federal Workers Amid Government Shutdown w/ Matt Gaetz, Dave DeCamp, Curtis Mills

Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Timcast Media
Guest Host: Matt Gaetz
Panelists: Dave DeCamp (Antiwar.com), Kurt Mills (American Conservative), Lot Eliyahu (Timcast White House correspondent), Phil Labonte (All That Remains)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, guest host Matt Gaetz leads a freewheeling, often combative roundtable on the current federal government shutdown, the leaked memo on no back pay for workers, and the broader implications for US politics, foreign policy, and political factions. The panel delves into shutdown theater, winners and losers, the Democratic-Republican messaging war, foreign entanglements (especially regarding Israel, Iran, and Venezuela), intra-GOP divides (with a focus on libertarians vs. MAGA), the polarization around US-Israel relations (triggered by the Charlie Kirk text message leak), and the realignments happening on the American right—all presented with the show’s signature irreverence and argument.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Current Government Shutdown: Impact, Causes & Blame

• Shutdown as Political Theater:

  • Phil Labonte: “If the government’s shut down, that doesn’t mean the military’s not doing stuff … it’s theater. The American people that rely on the government for stuff kind of are the losers.” [05:00]
  • Matt Gaetz: “It has a sort of Festivus energy to it. People are mad about the deport, people are mad about the tariffs, people are mad about executive power.” [06:10]

• Blame Game & Messaging:

  • Matt Gaetz: Expresses confusion that Republicans are getting blamed for a shutdown “objectively caused by the Democrats over external policy demands.” [06:10]
  • Kurt Mills: Argues that “there’s an impression of Republican power right now because the Democrats are invisible … Trump is blamed for something going on in Washington, D.C.” [06:56]

• When Does the Pain Set In?

  • Panel agrees public outrage will rise after a couple missed federal paychecks.
  • “You miss two paychecks, a family is in crisis.” – Gaetz [13:59]

• Who Really Feels It?

  • Matt Gaetz: “The elites have insulated themselves from the pain of shutdowns.” [16:54]
  • Phil Labonte: “Money gives you options. The people that have a million tucked away … don’t worry about this.” [17:22]

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2. Shutdown as Political Tool & Intra-GOP Tensions

• Trump’s Base & the ‘System’

  • Discussion of whether shutdown energizes Trump’s younger supporters. Gaetz relays a pollster theory that "Trump needs the shutdown to reconstitute his base of the under-39 crowd—who want to see violence done to the ‘system’.” [18:14]

• House Leadership Critique

  • Gaetz calls Speaker Mike Johnson a “rubber stamp on the MAGA agenda” and decries the House as fractured.
  • Gaetz: “We have no unifying principle … there were seven different political parties in the room.” [25:13]
  • Kurt Mills: “Weakest Congress has been in American history. It’s astonishing.” [26:04]

• Libertarians vs. MAGA

  • Heated debate over Thomas Massie’s place in the party.
  • “He’s essentially a Trojan horse for the left in our party.” – Lot Eliyahu [30:08]
  • “Massey should be the heart of what the party is.” – Kurt Mills [29:12]

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3. US-Israel Relationship & the Charlie Kirk Leaks

• Turning Point USA/Charlie Kirk Texts

  • Candace Owens’ release of Kirk’s texts exposes pressure from Jewish donors over pro/anti-Israel stances, refusal to “cancel Tucker” [40:33], and increasing intra-movement fissures.
  • Andrew Colvitt (Kirk’s close associate) confirms texts’ authenticity and frames them as showing “dual pressure” and that “no stone was unturned” in investigating Kirk’s murder. [42:06]

• Is the Right Divorcing Pro-Israel Factions?

  • Kurt Mills: “I want a movement on the right that can exist with people who want to listen to Mark Levin … and also those who don’t want to go to war over the Middle East anymore.” [45:00]
  • Debate: Can the pro-Israel right and the “question the depth of the relationship” right coexist? [46:36]

• Panel on US Policy Toward Israel

  • Gaetz describes pressure on new right figures to never question Israeli policy: “If you asked any questions about any decision of the Israeli government … you had deviated from the script.” [70:29]
  • Panel notes growing anti-Israel sentiment among young people, more so than left/right divides.
  • Dave DeCamp: “What we’ve seen is a mass murder livestreamed. At the end of the day, it’s a foreign country. It’s not in our interest to support this in America.” [81:28]

• Israel’s Influence Ops in the US

  • Dave DeCamp details Israeli foreign ministry’s $4.1 million geofencing campaign targeting American Christians with pro-Israel ads. [90:28]
  • Skepticism over expected impact; noted as a sign of Israel’s anxiety about shifting US Christian support.

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4. Iran Policy & Nonproliferation Debates

• Realities of Negotiation with Iran

  • Extensive debate over nuclear deals, role of proxies, and US credibility.
  • Kurt Mills: “We have made every policy choice to make nuclear proliferation more likely. It’s the hawks … who are agnostic about whether or not they [Iran] get the bomb.” [51:37]
  • Matt Gaetz: “I think the era of proliferation in the Middle East is upon us … You’re not gonna be able to keep that amount of money away from that amount of desire to have the deterrent that a nuclear weapon affords.” [59:53]

• Proxies vs. Nuclear Issue

  • Lot Eliyahu: Higher priority is not just Iran’s nuclear capability but also “Iranian proxies have the death of more American service members on their hands.” [56:45]

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5. Foreign Policy Faultlines—Venezuela, Mexico, China

• US-Venezuela Hostilities

  • Kurt Mills: “They are moving towards soft regime change. Secretary Rubio has long wanted … pretty extreme hawkishness on Venezuela.” [101:50]
  • Gaetz disputes Rubio’s hawkishness, says in his experience Rubio argued against military intervention in Venezuela [102:42]; panel agrees Florida’s politics play a big role (e.g. embargo policy driven by Miami Cuban/Venezuelan expats).

• Bombing Cartels in Mexico and Venezuela

  • Gaetz, with some panel support, floats the idea: “I think we should bomb the meth labs in Mexico.” [111:09]
  • Dave DeCamp counters: “You can’t just bomb drug traffickers. The issue is there’s a big market for drugs in the US. That’s not something we can just bomb away.” [113:31]

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6. Emerging American Realignment & Working with Political Opponents

• Coalitions of Convenience

  • Debating antiwar left-right collaboration, with Lot Eliyahu warning against any “common cause with communists.”
  • Phil Labonte: “If you don’t agree with me about this particular topic then you’re just against the entire agenda? I totally reject that.” [83:21]

• Trump as a ‘Pragmatist, Not Ideologue’

  • Phil Labonte: “There is nothing Trump wants more than to go down in history as a positive, good president. And you don’t do that by making the American people miserable. He’s not an ideological guy.” [88:48]
  • Matt Gaetz: “Trump saw the Republican Party as just an acquisition target … I can improve its value. Very, very business approach.” [89:43]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You miss two paychecks, a family is in crisis.”
  —Matt Gaetz [13:59]

• “I think there’s more of a libertarian streak in MAGA. At least there was at the beginning, because we were like outcasts.”
  —Matt Gaetz [38:55]

• “Democrats are blaming congressional Republicans for a cliff in credits they set up... And yet I do not see a single poll that suggests the American people are not blaming the Republicans.”
  —Matt Gaetz [06:10]

• “We have no unifying principle. There were like seven different political parties in the room.”
  —Matt Gaetz [25:13]

• “If you supported Trump over candidacies like Rubio or Jeb, there was something a little off about you.”
  —Matt Gaetz [39:09]

• “Kurt said on my program he wants a divorce from the Israel first crowd on the right ... I actually want a movement ... that can exist with people who want to listen to Mark Levin, and also those who don’t want to go to war over the Middle East anymore.”
  —Matt Gaetz [45:00]

• “The panel notes growing anti-Israel sentiment among young people, more so than left/right divides.”
  —Summary [73:46]

• “US policy toward Israel: there’s a growing anti-Israel segment on the right, and a bigger concern for Israelis should be the growing dissent within the Democratic party and far left.”
  —Lot Eliyahu [79:46]

• “Let Israel take care of Israel.”
  —Phil Labonte [132:57]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening/Introductions: 03:55–04:49
• Shutdown Blame Game: 05:00–11:40
• Who Gets Hurt By Shutdown: 13:00–17:20
• Younger Voters & Shutdown: 18:14–21:04
• Congressional Leadership & Fractures: 25:13–26:17
• Debate Over Libertarians/Massie & Party Purity: 28:15–34:02
• US-Israel Tensions & Charlie Kirk Leak: 40:01–46:16
• Nuclear Deal & Iran Policy: 50:37–64:23
• Venezuela, Mexico, Bombing Cartels: 100:32–115:32
• China, Taiwan, Global Priorities: 115:43–117:47
• American Political Realignment: 128:36–133:46

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Tone and Style

• The conversation is uncensored, feisty, and often joking—typical of Timcast IRL roundtable panels.
• Participants frequently engage in friendly but heated argument, especially Lot Eliyahu (more uncompromising MAGA) vs. other panelists (Libertarian/right-leaning non-interventionists).
• Matt Gaetz both moderates and injects personal anecdotes and sharp critiques of DC politics.
• The analysis is insider-y but meant for an audience that wants in-the-weeds details and frank commentary.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers an in-depth and sometimes contentious discussion of the ongoing government shutdown and its ripple effects across US politics and foreign policy. The panel exposes fissures within the American right, especially on Israel and foreign wars, while highlighting broader realignment trends. Through the lens of breaking news (the leaked memo, Charlie Kirk texts), the hosts illuminate the shifting ground beneath American partisanship—with plenty of wit, skepticism, and candor.

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Transcript

[Dave DeCamp]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Kurt Mills]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, I dig the mattress and I.

[Phil Labonte]

Want to be in a T mobile.

[Dave DeCamp]

Commercial like you teach me. So Dana.

[Matt Gaetz]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Phil Labonte]

Wow, impressive. Let me try.

[Dave DeCamp]

T mobile is the best place to.

[Matt Gaetz]

Get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice. Je free.

[Phil Labonte]

You heard them. T mobile is the best place to.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.

[Phil Labonte]

Us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Dave DeCamp]

So what are we having for lunch?

[Matt Gaetz]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Lot Eliyahu]

The 24 month bill credit on experience.

[Phil Labonte]

Beyond for well qualified customers + tax.

[Lot Eliyahu]

And 35 device connection charge credit send.

[Kurt Mills]

And balance due if you pay off.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Earlier Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A.

[Kurt Mills]

New line minimum 100 plus a month.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oklahoma Speed Test Intelligence.

[Matt Gaetz]

Data 182025 Visit T mobile.com this is Jim. Hello. Jim started advertising with iHeartRadio way back.

[Lot Eliyahu]

In April and now I have customers out the door.

[Matt Gaetz]

And this is Sarah.

[Kurt Mills]

Hi.

[Matt Gaetz]

She started putting a portion of her marketing dollars in podcasting back in June.

[Christina Williams]

Business is booming.

[Kurt Mills]

That's why I'm working on a Saturday.

[Matt Gaetz]

Want to be like Jim and Sarah? It's easy.

[Lot Eliyahu]

All you have to do is own.

[Matt Gaetz]

Or manage a business and reach out to iHeart. Get started today at 844-844-IHeart or iheartadvertising.com welcome to Timcast IRL. I am Matt Gates, thrilled to be guest hosting here with some of the smartest people I know in Washington, in the media and commentating on all of the interesting things going on in the news. We are a week into this shutdown and like many one week olds, the shutdown is getting crankier by the moment and so we will analyze who is winning that and how we're likely to get out of it and if we even really care and is it going to affect people? There's differing opinions on that subject and how we actually would address this shutdown as a mechanism to fight some of the challenging concentrations of power that are frequently discussed on this platform. Also, it is October 7. We will talk about this day in history, what it means from a foreign policy standpoint, from the US Israel relationship standpoint, and a lot of Folks are talking about these things in the wake of Candace Owens releasing state text messages showcasing a real disagreement between Charlie Kirk and some folks who are trying to push him more in the direction of supporting a robust US Israel relationship. Turning Point USA has responded to that. We will get into all of it and we'll just take a trip around the world and see what the United States is up to in places like Somalia and Venezuela and Ukraine. Be terrific before we have that discussion. Few words from our sponsors before we get started.

[Phil Labonte]

My friends, we got a great sponsor.

[Lot Eliyahu]

It's Ben. You know, we love bearskin.

[Dave DeCamp]

These are great.

[Lot Eliyahu]

And am. You guys have seen them.

[Matt Gaetz]

I wear them on the show periodically. It's starting to get a little cool again, so we'll probably start wearing them. Smart people. Right now they're locking in their winter gear because this is the best time.

[Lot Eliyahu]

To prep for coming.

[Matt Gaetz]

I've been told that many times before.

[Phil Labonte]

We get started, my friends, we got a great sponsor.

[Lot Eliyahu]

It's Bear Skin. You know, we love bearskin.

[Matt Gaetz]

These are great and amazing hoodies.

[Lot Eliyahu]

You guys have seen them.

[Matt Gaetz]

I wear them on the show periodically. It's starting to get a little cool.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Again, so we'll probably start wearing them.

[Matt Gaetz]

Smart people. Right now they're locking in their winter gear because this is the best. Yeah, I guess. There's no audio on this cold.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Right?

[Matt Gaetz]

Bear skin is running a 60 deal right now.

[Lot Eliyahu]

That's happening, but only if you get your hoodie early.

[Matt Gaetz]

The hoodie is built like a tank. 340gsm micro fleece 10 so. All right, well, let's start with introductions.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I was so flattered with how you said you were some with some of the smartest minds around here in D.C. Mr. Gates. So it's a pleasure to have you hosting today. My name is A Lot Eliyahu. I'm the White House correspondent here at Tim Cast. I've also been covering a lot of immigration stories. Let's go around the circle. What about you?

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, I'm Dave DeCamp. I'm the news editor for Antiwar.com where I cover the news and I appreciate Mr. Gates having me on here. I'm a regular now on his show, the Matt Gates show, which is cool and I'm very happy to be here.

[Kurt Mills]

Kurt Mills, executive director of the American Conservative magazine. Likewise a guest on Mr. Gates's new show, the the New Underground, as I've termed it, and excited to be here in this new capacity, or at least this temporary capacity.

[Phil Labonte]

Hello, everybody. My name is Phil Labonte. I'm the lead Singer of the heavy metal band all that Remains. I'm an anti communist and a counter revolutionary. Let's get into it.

[Matt Gaetz]

Phil, as a counter revolutionary are you, what are you rooting for in this shutdown?

[Phil Labonte]

Well, I mean, we need to know.

[Matt Gaetz]

Where the counter revolutionary force is here.

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, I like the fact that the government shut down because the government can't do bad things generally. But if you really take an honest look at it, look, if the government's shut down, that doesn't mean that the military is not doing stuff. That doesn't mean that you're going to stop paying taxes or there's going to be like a two or three week break. So really it's theater. So I think the American people that rely on the government for stuff kind of are the losers. You know, like you were mentioning before the show, people that are, are waiting on the VA to, to, you know, decide on what their, their, you know, payment is for disability or what have you. People that, that are going to be waiting in line at the, you know, for TSA when they're down to just one, one lane or whatever. The, the, you know, the air traffic controllers. For the most part, it's the American people that lose. I would like to say that the Democrats lose because they're the ones that kind of initiated it unnecessarily. But it is legitimate to say that the, the tax breaks that were connected to the ACA and stuff like if they don't get renewed or whatever, that's going to be a significant increase for people that are actually paying their own insurance. So I kind of feel like the American people are the losers really.

[Matt Gaetz]

I don't even know if the American people know what this is about yet. It has a sort of festivus energy to it. People are mad about the deport, people are mad about the tariffs. People are mad about executive power. There's the Obamacare rug pull, which by the way, so Rich, the Democrats are blaming congressional Republicans for a cliff in credits that they set up. Like, it's not like Republicans picked this day in history and said this will be the day that the Obamacare credits, and it was designed this way by the Democrats. And yet I do not see a single poll that suggests the American people are not blaming the Republicans for this in some way. And I am completely flummoxed by it. I don't understand why. Kurt Mills, can you explain why Republicans are losing the messaging war on a shutdown objectively caused by the Democrats over external policy demands?

[Kurt Mills]

Not really, because no one's really paying attention to this thing. But I will attempt to, I think in general, the historical record since the shutdowns started. So, Governor, shutdowns of memory serves began starting in the late 70s and through the mid-80s. But the very famous one that caught everyone's attention was the Gingrich Clinton first shut down in the mid-90s. There's a second one that kind of presaged Gingrich's exodus from politics or exodus from the house in the late 90s. And I looked into this a few years ago, and there's very little correlation. People think like the government, you know, whoever is accused of causing the problem will lose the White House or lose the Congress afterwards. It's not clear at all, like, literally. And so I think that also sort of makes this not super important. I think if you had to put a finger on why the Republicans are getting blamed with the Democrats is because there's an impression of Republican power right now because the Democrats are invisible. And so the sort of eyes glazed, just scrolling through whatever, is that Trump is the president. He sort of rules everything. Congress is, I guess, a co equal branch of government. But the reality is that heavy lies the crown. And so Trump is blamed for something going on in Washington, D.C. underneath his reign.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, but we all know that you have to get 60 votes to pass a Mother's Day resolution in the United States Senate if you're not under the reconciliation rules. And so now Trump is being blamed for having not done something keeping the government. Government open that he cannot do without the Democrats. And it seems as though this is more of a spasm reaction where they just, they need to fight on something. Like, who's in charge of the Democratic Party right now? I would argue probably Gavin Newsom, because at least he is a guy utilizing his power in California to redraw congressional districts, to seize power to deprive Republicans of the majority they want. And the congressional Republican or Democrats all look like they're just extras in the movie and they want to play a role. And so they've brought this shutdown upon the country. Trump must be frustrated with it. How do you think, how do you think the White House ultimately responds to people that work for the executive branch of government missing a paycheck, missing two paychecks. Like, I think there is a lot of good that can be done with the omb, Russ vote, clean out some of the dead wood, get rid of some commissions and councils and agencies, but at the same time, like, we can't look like we're enjoying it. Too much.

[Kurt Mills]

Well, I think that's why the Republic's getting blamed, though. People, frankly, like, they've been able to create villains like vote like Miller. The Republicans are using this crisis as, as a pretext to do all the scary things they want to do, which.

[Matt Gaetz]

We should, but we just shouldn't talk about it so much.

[Kurt Mills]

Well, the White House has leaned into it. I mean, I mean, like he, he Trump bragged for the first time overtly that votes Project 2025 associations. Sort of a gleeful thing. I haven't seen him use that word basically, since he claimed that he didn't.

[Matt Gaetz]

Know what to me is. It was pre, like the, the shutdown gaining.

[Kurt Mills]

Right.

[Matt Gaetz]

You know, the, the certainty of field.

[Kurt Mills]

But you're still, you're still a bit of a House nerd. Like, the people are just really paying attention to the top lines here.

[Matt Gaetz]

Oh, I would, I would, I would run such a more dramatic shutdown.

[Kurt Mills]

No, no, I told you off camera that, that this is, this is what's going on here is that you're not in the House. And so, like, it would be much more interesting if you were.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, and one of the pressure points people put on me when I deprived the speaker of the necessary votes and then when I removed the speaker is now we're not getting to the important business. To which I was like, what Biden's agenda? Like, we can't rush to go and give Joe Biden the next version of the CHIPS act or his next military supplemental, Ukraine.

[Dave DeCamp]

That was when Ukraine was the big agenda.

[Matt Gaetz]

Right. And so I didn't really mind, like, if we just sat around and played tiddly wings and didn't have a speaker and did not advance demise. I was kind of okay with that. Not in a nihilistic way, but I just didn't feel, I didn't feel pressure. Whereas here, Trump will want to get stuff done that people will tell him will be somewhat impaired, and then stuff is just going to start to happen. That's annoying. When you have to wait four hours to get through tsa, it's going to suck when you, when you just see like a third of the flights canceled because a bunch of the air traffic controllers called in sick because they weren't getting paid. That's going to suck. And I wonder how people react.

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, I mean, I'll tell you, you know this. It's tough to even be aware that there's a shutdown, you know, from what I do because I focus all on U.S. foreign policy. And I keep forgetting that there's A shutdown because we keep bombing places and shipping weapons to Israel like that. That hasn't stopped. So it is kind of the worst elements of the government that continue, you know, and it's things like you mentioned that actually get shut down.

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, that's why I do think charade, you know.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, you mentioned something. I think we shouldn't have to pay federal withholding during this period.

[Lot Eliyahu]

You know, so a few things. We're only like seven days into the shutdown, so I don't think until people really start feeling the pain, will it matter. And I think the important conversation we need to have right now is to about is why are the Democrats holding out? And the current incentive structure surrounding the Democrats is that they need to posture and show that they are fighting back against Trump to their base because Schumer and who and Jeffries need to demonstrate to their base so they cover their leftward flank from people attacking them. So I think that's the real issue at hand here.

[Matt Gaetz]

Democrats spasm that they just have to how long until that burns off.

[Lot Eliyahu]

They need to be able to go back to their constituents and say, we are fighting the fascism that is Trump. Trump is trying to do mass deportations and we are trying to hold him up in the House. That is going to work more and.

[Matt Gaetz]

More ridiculous people like, fascism wasn't my letter carrier who delivered the mail, but now like Ethel isn't getting paid. And I think that's kind of unfair. And like, you know, the face of fascism isn't some airman who is stuck at Ramstein Air Force Base, like with a family wondering if they're going to be able to provide for Matt, what.

[Phil Labonte]

You'Re talking about is honestly, like, that's, that's tangible reality stuff. And what he's talking about is just like the base of the Democrats that don't need any contact with reality. They just want people to tell them, hey, I'm fighting Donald Trump, which is a terrible way to do politics, but it is the way that.

[Matt Gaetz]

So let me grant the premise that the current David laid out, which is no one actually cares, yet he's paying attention.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Only seven days.

[Matt Gaetz]

How long? What is the point at which the things I'm saying about angst around shutdowns actually becomes part, part of the body politic?

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think three months.

[Phil Labonte]

No, I don't think it's that long. I think, I think it's once. Yeah, a couple pay periods. I don't think. I don't think it'll be two or three months. I think a couple Maybe, maybe this, I guess this Friday is when people are supposed to get paid. When the people that are reliant on the government for their, their, whatever, their, their pay or whatever funding they get, when those people don't get paid and then they're complaining to their friends at work. Like when, when people that hear, oh my, my neighbor or the guy in the cubicle next to me or what have you, he can't make his, his, his mortgage payment because the government shut down. That kind of stuff is when the.

[Matt Gaetz]

Median checking account balance in the country is like 20$800. Yeah, that's why the chat GPT. You missed two paychecks. A family is in crisis.

[Phil Labonte]

Absolutely. And once, once word gets around that there are people suffering at that point.

[Matt Gaetz]

Will the Republicans at least be able to say that they didn't cause this bad?

[Kurt Mills]

Do you think the shutdown was in 1819?

[Matt Gaetz]

I think it was one of the three points during Donald Trump's presidency where his approval rating wasn't durably at 42%. If you look at three times during.

[Christina Williams]

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[Matt Gaetz]

Presidency, where he dipped a little before that very durable 42. It was Charlottesville, Helsinki. And when he got out of that shutdown, because a lot of people felt like if there was going to be the pain of the shutdown, there should be the payoff of the wall money that he sought and, you know, ultimately got.

[Dave DeCamp]

How long was that?

[Kurt Mills]

That was 35 days. Yeah, that was 35.

[Matt Gaetz]

That was painful.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Kurt Mills]

Halloween, I guess, would be the answer. Right. If it goes past Halloween, it's getting pretty bad.

[Matt Gaetz]

Okay, so, so, so the. Let me, let me posit this other theory, Phil. I believe the elites have insulated themselves from the pain of shutdowns 100%. There's no real part of life for the American elite that is going to change about a shutdown.

[Phil Labonte]

I agree.

[Matt Gaetz]

So in a way, it's quite corruptly something where the, the elites, by virtue of this, this performance politics, are causing the problem, but life kind of goes on in the clouds. You agree?

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, yeah. I think that the, the, the, the people that are being hurt are obviously people that live paycheck to paycheck. And like you said, like, that's the vast majority of, of. I don't know about the vast majority of Americans, but that's probably the majority of Americans. And so, you know, the elites there. Look, if you, if you own assets, right, you own a couple hundred thousand dollars in stock and you got a portfolio and stuff. Like, it's like, all right, well, if I need to pay for something, I can sell stock. And it's like, it sucks because they don't want to, but it's not like I can't do this. Money gives you options. So the people that have, you know, a million dollars tucked away for retirement or whatever, they don't worry about this.

[Matt Gaetz]

The stock market didn't 10 any days off. Yeah, right. The futures markets didn't take any days off. Like, nobody's, nobody's CDs, stopped paying if they had accumulated wealth. No one's home stopped appreciating in value.

[Dave DeCamp]

Right.

[Matt Gaetz]

So the boomers did just fine in the shutdown. So Mark Mitchell is this pollster for Rasmussen. He comes on my program, he posits this theory that actually Trump needs the shutdown to reconstitute his base of the under 39 crowd that like, if you look at at the time of the election, the age group that made the most meaningful contribution to the Trump coalition as a distinct force in American politics, It was the 18 to 39 crowd. And largely the reason they voted for Trump was because they believed they had lived in a system that had screwed them over for their most of their adult life, and they believed Trump would do more violence to that system than Kamala Harris.

[Phil Labonte]

So do you think they're happy about this then?

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, I, the pollster was saying since the election that cohort has, has degraded to some extent. And they have degraded because they have seen Trump assume power and become the system. And like, not everything was taken down to its studs in the first week or in the first year. And there is some discontent with that. And so what happened in the administration that swelled approval rating among that constituency the most was the Doge stuff like when people every day got another dopamine hit of like, these are the USAID workers walking out of the building. Here's everybody from the Department of Education taking their protractors, chalkboard erasers home. Like, there was a sense that, like, yeah, we're actually making a fundamental difference here. Does, does Trump need the shutdown in some sense to get back that cohort? And what else would get them back?

[Lot Eliyahu]

I don't think 18 to 39 year olds who voted for the president in large numbers in the past election are particularly interested enough in politics to know about this shutdown. I feel like it just hasn't hit the average everyday Americans yet in a tangible way. Like I said, most Americans probably don't even know that the shutdown is happening. If you're not tapped into politics, you likely don't know that the shutdown's happening.

[Dave DeCamp]

I am relatively tapped into politics again. I focus on foreign policy and I, and, but still, like, I pay attention to what's going on in D.C. and it keeps kind of going out of my mind that there's even a shutdown. So it seems like business as usual.

[Lot Eliyahu]

As far as Washington, D.C. still going from my angle.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah. And you know, I've never been personally affected by a government shutdown, but I'm not an elite. I'm someone, if I didn't make two paychecks, I'd be in trouble. But you know, I'm just saying, like, for. I have the instinct maybe because I am in that 18 to 39 range that when I hear a shutdown, I go, ahaha, you know, you know, take that Feds or something. That's like my instinct. But the points you make are, are valid, that it's not like the, you know, the, the people really running the show who are being affected by this.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think you're a little bit more tapped in because you're a former member of the House. So you hear shut down and your alarms are going off. But to most people, they're like a government shut, shut down.

[Matt Gaetz]

Like, I'm disappointed they didn't do it with pan.

[Kurt Mills]

No, I mean, I think there is something, I mean, there's something about this shutdown. I think we've entered a new. And there's something about this Congress. This is the most boring Congress I can remember in my lifetime.

[Matt Gaetz]

We have a lot of questions. People asked about whether or not Mike Johnson should be replaced as House Speaker. And I said, mike Johnson will give President Trump anything he wants, just like he gave the last President anything he wanted.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

And that's kind of what we've gotten from Mike.

[Kurt Mills]

It's just like. Yeah, like he's not. I know you don't. He's just not much of an entity, at least for public consumption. You know, I mean, all the other speakers were, were, you're saying he's a rubber spirit, so to speak. I mean, I mean, I mean, even, even your good friend Kevin McCarthy is a character. I mean, like, he clearly a villain.

[Matt Gaetz]

But a character nonetheless.

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, it's just like there's, there, there isn't any drama. And then like, even, even the, the leading Democrats aren't in leadership or aren't in the Congress. Right. Newsom Whitmer. You know, AOC is not heavily involved in the shutdown politics.

[Dave DeCamp]

Who is the leader of the Democrats, like you said, it's like, I mean.

[Lot Eliyahu]

There'S AOC and Bernie Schumer and Jeffries.

[Phil Labonte]

AOC and Bernie.

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, Jeffries is getting super beat up this year because of all this Mamdani stuff. So like, so. And then Schumer's worried about a primary from aoc.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, well, they're both trying to demonstrate. They're trying to demonstrate that their ability to like, fight back against Trump, to try to cover that leftward flank is nailing is my political understanding.

[Matt Gaetz]

Then who is the answer your own question.

[Kurt Mills]

Who's the leader? Who's the leader of that church ostensibly a Schumer. I mean like, I mean that is probably the person with the most power to stop this shutdown on the Democratic side.

[Lot Eliyahu]

And he's on borrowed time, frankly. He'll be out of the most powerful.

[Kurt Mills]

Democrat in the country's Newsom. Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

If you're, if you're old, white and male in the Democratic Party.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah. Your days are and then and more hawkish than average.

[Phil Labonte]

So I agree, I agree with you about Newsom, but what does that say? Because I also agree with Matt about his, about, you know, like if you're old, white, male, not that Newsom's particularly old, but he's a white gu.

[Matt Gaetz]

His.

[Phil Labonte]

When you take a look at a picture of his family, everybody's blonde, blue eyed and stuff and that just, you know, the Democrats are allergic to that. Now what does that say to his ability to actually get win a primary?

[Kurt Mills]

You know, I think there's a lot of sort of self flagellation and hatred on the Democratic side. I've heard a lot of like we're not going to make that mistake of nominating a woman again and we're not going to make the mistake of nominating a minority again. And so I think that's not why they lost. But I think a lot of Democrats, because they are so plugged in on identity politics, believe that identity politics are super real. And accordingly this could redound to Newsom's benefit.

[Matt Gaetz]

I think they see Trump, they're like, maybe it'll work with any white guy. I feel like Trump worked with Biden for us.

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, I think there's like, I mean I think it's, it's, it would be. So we're very far out. I mean we're in this conversation in October of 2021. I think DeSantis might have been traded higher in the markets than Trump and that would have been really dumb. And so, but right now it seems Newsom's a very soft front runner and maybe in the way that like Mayor.

[Dave DeCamp]

Pete been around Mayor Pete Well, I.

[Kurt Mills]

Mean he, I feel like he's getting.

[Matt Gaetz]

He has the same problem that we can't find seven black people who want to vote for.

[Phil Labonte]

I was just going to say the.

[Matt Gaetz]

Democratic Party, if you're trying to build your coalition out of like yuppies, transsexuals and like the, you know, the pit bull adopting lesbians, there's not enough of them that vote in The.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, but faction too.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, right.

[Kurt Mills]

Like the left, the left, towards the left, the left toys are going to lose their mind. Buttigieg is the nominee. Newsom is a little bit like Biden where it's like, you know, he doesn't, he's not really one of our guys, but he's not ideologically committed to the center in this way. And I feel like they're not going to revolt on it. I mean, California is the great liberal progressive project. It's being governed very mediocrely, but, you know, they don't. He doesn't rankle them in the same way.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Matt, I wanted to follow up with something you hit on because Speaker Johnson's obviously one of the most important politicians in Washington D.C. were you in effect saying that he's sort of a rubber stamp on the MAGA agenda? Is that a good thing? And what do you think? Like.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Lot Eliyahu]

What do you think he's doing as Speaker?

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah. What are the differences between Donald Trump. Trump and Mike Johnson on policy? Take all the time you need.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Well, he just does whatever he tells him.

[Matt Gaetz]

Right, right, exactly. So my point, my point is that the House is there to simply facilitate the actions of the administration. And I think most people in the House would say at this point, we're fine with that. We haven't been, well led by really anyone. And we, we have no unifying principle. One of the frustrating things for me about being in that meeting of 200 plus House Republicans is there was no thing that really united us. There were like seven different political parties in the room. We were, we were barely a coalition. And I think that, you know, that doesn't lend to a Speaker having the authority to go and say, we're going to do welfare reform, we're going to do, you know, spending reform, agency reform. Sunset different.

[Kurt Mills]

Weakest Congress has been in American history. It's astonishing. I mean, it's just like, I mean, we, we've been struggling to cover Congress in the magazine before the shutdown. It's like, what the hell is going on? Like, and it's just not very much.

[Matt Gaetz]

And does it make you miss George Santos at all?

[Phil Labonte]

I always feel, at least like it feels like hilarious.

[Kurt Mills]

It goes, it goes without saying.

[Matt Gaetz]

So, yeah, no. Jorge Santos is back in his camp. I can, I can confirm after speaking to his lawyer today that Jorge Santos has been returned from solitary confinement to his more amenable camp. He had been in solitary confinement because the FBI was investigating a plot to assassinate George Santos in prison. Reflected in a series of letters Was it Iran presented?

[Kurt Mills]

Was it the Iranians?

[Matt Gaetz]

Sirhan Sirhan?

[Kurt Mills]

Was it the Iranians?

[Lot Eliyahu]

I know Representative Greene said she was lobbying for a pardon for Santos. Do you think Santos deserves a pardon?

[Matt Gaetz]

I think that George Santos probably will not serve his entire term. I think whether it's a commutation or a pardon or some other feature of the justice system, I don't know that George Santos being locked up for seven years was a just result for misusing credit cards on Onlyfans and Hermes. And by the way, you know what he spent the Hermes money on? Partially. He bought gifts for members of the steering committee. Because they tell you when you get to Congress that your fate rests on whether the steering committee will put you on your committees of preference. And so for me, I was like, how do I get on the Armed Services Committee? And they said, you have to have $150,000 to us in the next 10 days. And so I went and did it. But for Santos, he was like, I know exactly how to win him over. And he bought everybody like an Hermes pocket square. And then apparently that's against a whole lot of really good laws.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think it's worth mentioning too that the district that he used to represent has been blue ever since. And you know, such as blue before. Sure. So, yeah, George was the only one that won it. He flipped important seat on Long island and, you know, once they kicked him out of Congress, they had to deal with an even slimmer majority, which is part and parcel why Congress is so weak right now and Mike Johnson can't do much.

[Matt Gaetz]

Do you think we had. Yeah, if we had like a 220, like, you know what is there like a 3, super 30 or 240? I don't think it would be fundamentally different. I mean, we have 222 now.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I don't know, are we counting Massey as a Republican or not? Because I don't know, often he supports.

[Matt Gaetz]

And Massey is a Republican.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Well, he's going to go government MAGA agenda often in Congress and voting with Democrats.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, on what core thing? I mean, I guess. I guess he had some constitutional questions about the wall that I didn't have. But on issues like opposing foreign entanglements and spending reductions, I've been aligned with Massie.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think he's pissed the President off enough to get him to endorse his opponent. I forgot exactly what bill it was. Maybe the previous continuing resolution where he voted against and was holding up.

[Dave DeCamp]

They're not going to be able to get rid of Massey, though.

[Kurt Mills]

That's the Only thing he's got too much. Yeah. Massey is the only interesting things that's going on in the Congress.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I don't know if holding up the MAGA agenda is interesting but I'm not.

[Kurt Mills]

Very happy about like imaginable for more wars overseas for I mean like. I mean Massey should be the heart of what the party.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Well I think the President's agenda is good and I think it's agenda. I think if Thomas Massie ran on a national platform that on that platform in a national race he would lose badly.

[Kurt Mills]

He's not running for President.

[Lot Eliyahu]

He's no seat but I know I'm saying his why would he run for Senate?

[Matt Gaetz]

That's my question. My question to Thomas Massie was if they're going to spend $20 million against you why even run for the House again? Why not just run for Senate in Kentucky? There's no runoff in Kentucky. It's first past the post. It's McConnell's old seat. It's an already fragmented field. Thomas Massie could get into a race like that cobble up enough like libertarian kind of Jeff Yass money and could be a force and could be in the United States Senate and that could be him and that could be an easier path than what you describe as a very.

[Kurt Mills]

Doesn't sound like that doesn't sound like they have much of a total him though. If like in his seat I mean they, they haven't really recruited anybody credible.

[Lot Eliyahu]

If we support parts of the mega agenda that include things like mass deportations having these flip floppy libertarian type Republicans in the party is what holds us back and they're essentially a Trojan horse for the left in our party.

[Kurt Mills]

I know totally.

[Lot Eliyahu]

What do you mean Rand Paul when Rand Paul question and when Thomas Massie tries to hold up the continuing resolutions in Congress and then when libertarians go and rally at their anti war rallies with communists I think there's questions to be had about how much of how much they're truly helping Republicans or just you know, our children as he has.

[Kurt Mills]

Stood up for against some of the dumbest things in public policy in the last seven years. Yeah Covid stuff the Iran war. You know I don't agree with him on everything but like this this man is so much more interesting.

[Dave DeCamp]

He's pretty much the only person in Congress House that I like what him and Marjorie Taylor Greene I would like the only ones that I what is the MAGA gender?

[Kurt Mills]

You can say the mag agenda all day. Trump changes his mind all the time.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Speaker Johnson and Thomas Massie have Two very different jobs.

[Matt Gaetz]

Right.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Speaker Johnson is trying to get all the Republicans in a caucus on the same page so they could continue to pass legislation that's broadly popular with the Republicans. Thomas Massie just needs to play to his base and it's a completely different, you know, organization that he has to run.

[Matt Gaetz]

You know, where I used to fight with him was on the antitrust stuff. I mean, fight in good nature.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

But on the Judiciary Committee, when I would try to have the back of like the Gail Slater type policy around concentrated corporate power, you know, when I had views that were at times maybe I was the demo.

[Kurt Mills]

Morning.

[Dave DeCamp]

Zoe got donuts.

[Kurt Mills]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, I dig the mattress and I.

[Phil Labonte]

Want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you.

[Matt Gaetz]

Teach me.

[Dave DeCamp]

So Dana.

[Matt Gaetz]

Oh no, I'm not really propagating.

[Christina Williams]

I couldn't possibly at t mobile get.

[Matt Gaetz]

The new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Phil Labonte]

Wow, impressive. Let me try.

[Dave DeCamp]

T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Matt Gaetz]

Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Phil Labonte]

T Mobile is the best place to.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.

[Phil Labonte]

Us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Dave DeCamp]

So what are we having for launch?

[Matt Gaetz]

Dude, my work here is done with.

[Lot Eliyahu]

24 month bill credit is on experience.

[Phil Labonte]

Beyond for well qualified customers.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and.

[Kurt Mills]

New line minimum $100 plus a month.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklove Speed Test Intelligence.

[Matt Gaetz]

Data 1H 2025 visit T mobile.com would.

[Christina Williams]

You guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year?

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day. Obviously the goal is a championship.

[Kurt Mills]

That's.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

There's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We want to win a championship.

[Christina Williams]

I'm Kristina Williams, host of the podcast. In case you missed it with Kristina Williams, the WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[Dave DeCamp]

It's really, really hard to be the.

[Kurt Mills]

Champions, but we have to remember how it fields and embrace the new challenge that we have.

[Christina Williams]

For all the biggest stories in women's basketball, plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted.

[Kurt Mills]

But we also know, you know, that's.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

Just one stop along the way and.

[Kurt Mills]

We'Re hoping to, you know, make it run.

[Christina Williams]

So listen to in case you missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart woman sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Matt Gaetz]

I had views aligned with, you know, you know, people like Jerry Nadler on, on the question of antitrust enforcement and Massie was like very reliably with, with the corporate right against that kind of bull moose energy of, of of our movement.

[Kurt Mills]

He doesn't like the government.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, no, but like it shows that there's nuance to these. Yeah, yeah. But I don't think you could paint someone's like pro maga, anti maga.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Well, the president does and said so. So I think he has the mantle to say so. The issue with like being in government and being an anti government guy, it's like you're, it's self defeating. It's like you're elected to effectively not get much done.

[Kurt Mills]

Like that's, this is, I mean, Massie spoke at Tax, the American Conservative, the magazine that I'm the executive director of. He spoke at one of our events. This is before I was involved in the magazine formally in November of 2016. And I distinctly remember this. And he was the, I'm not even sure this video's online, but he was the keynote speaker of it. And he talked about how that of the candidates in the 2016 primary field, that Trump was his second favorite, that he waited a little bit to endorse him because Mr. Trump was very mean to Rand Paul, his good friend during that race. But ideologically, although they hadn't gotten the Rand Paul presidency, Massie was pretty happy with what the result was. Compare that with the Mark Levins of the party, the Ted Cruz's of the party, the outright never Trumpers who are quote on the MAGA agenda, on the President's agenda. This is MAGA Muzak. It means nothing. It's just pablum. Massie actually was there in the grassroots at the beginning 10 years ago. Yeah, Rand was his guy, but Trump was his second choice. And I think we should defer to someone like that over people who just say they are for this stuff. But it's basically MAGA and drag.

[Lot Eliyahu]

It's fascinating that you have to go back almost a decade we could go off. I think the matter says and thinks right now on the campaign.

[Matt Gaetz]

To even things that people in the Cabinet.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Well, Trump's endorsing his opponent. Trump said that he is not maga.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, no, but he actually said.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I believe he said it along the lines of him being antithetical to the MAGA agenda. And to answer your question from earlier, what is the top issue for the Republicans in the MAGA agenda? It's mass deportations. And libertarian obstructionists get in the way of achieving that goal. And having Republicans.

[Phil Labonte]

Does Massey take a stance against.

[Matt Gaetz]

On the immigration. I haven't seen some granularity. There was one issue that Massie did not like in the House position on the immigration debate. He did not like the E VERIFY stuff. He felt like E Verify was a step to a government surveillance control over data thing.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

And so we always had to deal with Massie on that question. But on. He was also initially not too thrilled about using the military money for the wall. But I think. I think ultimately.

[Dave DeCamp]

And he's also targeted because aipac and you know, his stance on Israel, that's one of the big reasons why there's all this money behind it. I know you're pretty pro Israel, so that might be one of your problems with him, too.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think Israel's great, but I think based on our conversation and what we've said so far, I think him being antithetical to the MAGA agenda is the.

[Matt Gaetz]

Bigger issue at hand.

[Dave DeCamp]

But I just mean the way he's targeted, like with the money. With the money.

[Kurt Mills]

It's not about the MAG agenda, It's about Israel.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Matt Gaetz]

That's.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Who is we on the board. He's weak on the border in immigration. Because.

[Phil Labonte]

No, we haven't established that. There's just two things that he had issues with. He hasn't made any kind of stink about all of the mass deportation stuff. Like, you don't see him getting out in front of Congress or getting out in front of the press saying, donald Trump needs to stop sending the National Guard to Chicago. He needs to stop sending the National Guard.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Well, Rand Paul suggested that we shouldn't use the military message. Paul.

[Dave DeCamp]

Rand Paul.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Libertarian.

[Matt Gaetz]

Rand Paul.

[Phil Labonte]

Rand Paul is a different person.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Let me finish. Stop. But I'm talking.

[Phil Labonte]

Let me finish.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Bigger issue.

[Phil Labonte]

But I know that you hate libertarians. But the fact of the matter is, if you're talking about one person. Stay, stay on the one topic.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Okay.

[Phil Labonte]

Massie has not said anything about having a problem with using the National Guard. To defend ICE while they're trying to carry out their lawful duties. He hasn't said anything that I'm aware of about. About the mass deportations that we've done so far. So the idea that he's. He's an obst to the. Probably the most important issue in the quote, unquote, MAGA agenda is just. That's just ridiculous. He's not.

[Kurt Mills]

Also, we just talked about for 20 minutes about how irrelevant Congress is. Congress isn't blocking the administration from mass deportations. The administration's inertia is that. I mean, that's. I mean, like, if they wanted to.

[Matt Gaetz]

I don't know that much is being blocked.

[Kurt Mills]

What is being blocked by the Congress? Like, nothing.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, I guess the continuing resolution.

[Kurt Mills]

Yes.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Okay.

[Kurt Mills]

Yes. Okay.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I mean, I just want to run through a couple examples because I wanted to give specific, specific things. So he voted against funding for the border wall and ice spending, HR 3401. And then recently in 2023, he was opposed to the Secure the Border act as well. So I'm saying flimsy, weak, obstructionist, libertarian types when it comes to call him.

[Dave DeCamp]

Flimsy and weak when he's. When it comes to standing up on.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Party principle, you care about masty porn. I think libertarians have a different agenda a lot.

[Phil Labonte]

Just hates libertarians.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, I don't blame them for that.

[Matt Gaetz]

I.

[Phil Labonte]

Listen, I agree. I stopped calling myself a libertarian. Doesn't mean that I'm not sympathetic to a lot of their policies. But I don't call myself.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I trust the president on this one.

[Matt Gaetz]

I think there's more of a libertarian streak in maga. At least there was at the beginning because we were like outcasts. If you supported Trump over candidacies like Rubio or Jeb, there was something like a little off about you and that.

[Kurt Mills]

We were kind of the biggie ate Rand Paul's constituency. I think Rand Paul was. Was what was Super Hot in 2014, 2015. I think Rand got somewhat unlucky by the rise of isis. I mean, if you talk to Rand reporters, sorry, Rand flacks, Rand operatives, they would say basically their problem was that quietly, maybe Rand isn't presidential charisma and then also Jihad John, the ISIS better guy who got very famous at the time that Rand Paul was on the COVID of Time magazine. But Trump was echoing all of this stuff. He just did it in this sort of more nuanced way versus Rand was obviously associated with his father's, you know, pretty down the line.

[Matt Gaetz]

Trump was a far better communicator than Rand. About Randall.

[Kurt Mills]

I like, Senator Trump was far better. Donald Trump is Donald Trump.

[Phil Labonte]

Trump is far taller than Rand Paul. And as a short guy, I know like that matters, especially when you're running for president.

[Matt Gaetz]

Okay, so I, I do want to get into.

[Dave DeCamp]

We got a lot of topics, right?

[Matt Gaetz]

I do want to get into the. What has got the Internet going crazy today? And it's these Charlie Kirk text messages. Can we get this Candace Owens clip of her going through the. The texts that. That originally were questioned as to authenticity but but were later authenticated.

[Lot Eliyahu]

It's going to come through the speaker.

[Phil Labonte]

Volume's down on it. No, look on this, on the screen. Twitter video on the video, I promise. See?

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, there you go.

[Lot Eliyahu]

So Charlie writes in the scroop chat, just lost another huge Jewish donor.

[Christina Williams]

Two million a year because we won't cancel Tucker.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

I'm thinking of inviting Candace.

[Matt Gaetz]

Somebody writes, ugh.

[Christina Williams]

Charlie writes, jewish donors play into all of the stereotypes. I cannot and will not be bullied.

[Matt Gaetz]

Like this, leaving me no choice but.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

To leave the pro Israel cause then somebody writes, a donor writes, please do not invite Candace.

[Matt Gaetz]

That might feel good short term, but.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

It'S not good long term.

[Kurt Mills]

In my opinion.

[Christina Williams]

Like all groups, you're going to get.

[Kurt Mills]

A wide variety of opinions.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

That nasty free will thing that God.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Bestowed on us makes life frustrating at times.

[Christina Williams]

After the dust settles a bit, maybe. So Again, this is 48 hours before Charlie Crow was assassinated.

[Matt Gaetz]

He was very clear and he was.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

Very explicit and he did not back.

[Kurt Mills]

Down out in that Hamptons meeting, which.

[Christina Williams]

They'Re all lying about, nor in this text thread. I'm not going to reveal the names.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Of the other seven. Actually, you know what?

[Christina Williams]

I disagree with myself four seconds ago.

[Matt Gaetz]

Let's just throw in Josh Hammer for funsies.

[Kurt Mills]

He's on this chat.

[Matt Gaetz]

Okay, so after that hit the interwebs, you had a lot of people questioning whether or not that was legit. Andrew Colvitt, the person who, other than Charlie Kirk's family, I believe Andrew Colvitt probably loved Charlie Kirk more than any other person on the planet earth, was constantly at his side, his business partner, his cooperative on almost every project. Here's Andrew Colvitt addressing those text messages.

[Dave DeCamp]

Some of the things that have been going around on public, namely about a text, a group text chain that has been made known and released by Candace Owens. And I just want to address it head on because that was a text grab, a screen grab that I had shared with people. So it is authentic. And I want to go into it because I actually am really excited that the. The truth is out there. I first want to say the reason.

[Matt Gaetz]

I have, I didn't share that screen.

[Dave DeCamp]

Grab publicly is because it was a private. It was a private exchange and I felt like it didn't necessarily comport with things that were already public. I wanted to not betray my friends trust in that way. But I did share it with some people in government because it happened really quick. It was, you know, it took 33 hours for authorities to. To get their suspect. And in those first moments, we wanted no stone unturned. We wanted to leave nothing unturned. So I shared it with a few people. Don't know where it went from there apparently, but here we are. So one of the reasons, Blake, that I'm glad to have this now public, it was not mine to share publicly, but one of the criticisms we've received is that we don't care. We're not investigating every lead, we're not looking under every stone, and that somehow we're just like, you know, sweeping things under the rug. And when I say that we want justice for Charlie more than anybody else, I really mean it. And no stone unturned. I mean, I don't know if you want to chime in on that part alone, but I have more to say.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah. So it has been so frustrating to have people blow up about this. And we've stated, I've certainly stated publicly.

[Lot Eliyahu]

The reason I haven't weighed in on.

[Kurt Mills]

Things is I am an eyewitness to.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Events and they've said anything.

[Dave DeCamp]

That's a doubt.

[Matt Gaetz]

All right, so the, the lead there to me is Andrew Colvitt, who's there in the moments following Charlie Kirk's death, feels the need to share this message with someone in government with some responsibility to investigate the murder of Charlie. What does that tell us?

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, I want to ask you something about this because I saw that you had Max Blumenthal in your show recently.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Dave DeCamp]

To talk about his reporting about this. And in that text he talks about the pressure for having Tucker and Candace there. And it seemed like in that interview you suggested that there might have been some pressure about having you speak at Turning Point events. Is that right?

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, first of all, in the moments where Charlie was having those discussions, he was reflecting the very same thing to me, that he was feeling this dual pressure. He had been pro Israel and had defended Israel's right to exist publicly and forcefully. And yet at the same time, he was willing to platform someone like Tucker Carlson, who is a hero, and platform someone like me, who I've taken Controversial positions on foreign policy matters. And there were people who are contributing to this experience for young people who didn't feel like the voices that you would get from a Tucker Carlson or a Matt Gaetz or Candace Owens. Not, not that we're a homogenized group, but that those viewpoints would not be helpful for young people to hear. Charlie resisted that. But I'm telling you, this was a guy who. This pained him because I have a different viewpoint on this than Kurt does. Kurt said on my program recently he wants a divorce from the Israel first crowd on the right. That he doesn't believe that these things. If I'm paraphrasing you incorrectly, you can say I actually want a movement on the right that can exist with people who want to listen to Mark Levin and hold his views, but then also those who don't want to go to war over the Middle east anymore. And I actually think that that was what Charlie worked so hard to try to curate, keeping these things together. And there is a part of me who Charlie was my friend, care deeply for him. You know, that's. You see this play out publicly. And it's not what Charlie would have wanted. He would not have wanted his death to be something like that. Like, yeah, that like accelerated the divorce. He really was trying to like stay together for the kids or at least the midterms.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is really interesting. Like, I remember I watched you on Matt's show when you talk about you want a beautiful divorce basically from the Israeli military. Right.

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, I think, I think the term is now getting perhaps more than I anticipated. But yeah, I think, I think that US Foreign policy should be beautifully divorced from Israeli foreign policy.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, but do you think the right in America can exist with the pro Israel contingent and the contingent that reads the American conservative and questions the depth of this relationship?

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, again, this is like a shell, right? So like, like Netanyahu is the prime minister and it's a question of what Israel will be without Netanyahu's prime minister. And it's a question of what Israel is becoming. But in the current time, functionally, what on offer is this, which is Israel is going to prosecute this forever war. It is now heightened from sort of back Channeling in Washington, D.C. new York City and other places to try to get the US involved in Israel's wars. That that's been going on since the 80s and 90s to outright. This is the whole thing. And I remember talking to somebody this is like a month or two ago and this is somebody who does not have my foreign policy priors, but they were like, you know, the thing that you do raise, Kurt, that I think is fair. And this is a person who is.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

Run a business and not thinking about radio. Think again. Cause more people are listening to the radio on iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart streaming, podcasting and radio where the reach is real. Let us show [e-mail] that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844. Iheart one more time. Just call 844-844-Iheart and get radio working for you.

[Christina Williams]

Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year?

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day. Obviously the goal is a championship. There's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We want to win a championship.

[Christina Williams]

I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast in case you you missed it with Christina Williams. The WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[Kurt Mills]

It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge.

[Christina Williams]

That we have for all the biggest stories in women's basketball, plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted. But we also know, you know, that.

[Kurt Mills]

Just one stop along the way and we're hoping to, you know, make it run.

[Christina Williams]

So listen to in case you missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Kurt Mills]

This person Jewish. This person is proudly supportive of Israel's campaign against Hamas. This person said, though, the thing about the Israel crowd, though, is they ask for everything. It is the whole political capital of the administration right now. It's not just part of it. And so I'M far more skeptical of ability of the Mark Levins and the people who want something more like a divorce to exist within the same movement or the same party. Because the reality is, what does President Trump spend a lot of time on? Israel, Gaza. I think you need a tough measure here which is cutting US Military support for Israel, cutting US Diplomatic support for Israel as long as the war goes on and a red line on really caring about Iran, and then we can talk. There are certainly similarities between the Israeli project and the American project. But for now, for the foreseeable future, I don't see a way in which these two societies can really coexist in a way that us can pursue its interests.

[Lot Eliyahu]

First, can I follow up on something that you said, just one point on the end here. You said, like, put off the Iran issue. How do you think the United States should react to Iran's perceived nuclear ambitions?

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, at this point we're so deep in this game, but like, I think the reality is we have an offer on table. The offer on the table from the Iranians in April of this year with, you know, in Oman and Muscott with Wykoff's team was 3.76% enrichment, which is nowhere near nuclear bomb grade. And the US could have accepted that above ground inspections were also rumored. These are not UN Inspections, These are American inspectors. They can put in the biggest tough ass, non political send Mark Levin, they can send Mark Dubovitz, they can send Mark Levin, they can send Josh Hammer, they can go to Iran themselves and take a look around. That's a pretty good deal. It's a better deal than jcpoa. It's a better deal than the Obama deal. And I think Trump and the US should take it. I think that deal could still be procured and I think that's much better than the track we're on.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Is that to say that you don't think the United States should allow Iran to ultimately acquire nuclear weapons?

[Kurt Mills]

I think it's a false question because there's a deal on offer to avoid that.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, I mean, that would agree, but like the other scenario wouldn't be just letting Iran have a nuclear weapon.

[Kurt Mills]

You know, we're making it way more likely. Like not dealing with Tehran diplomatically could make them conclude that we have to lunge for some sort of rudimentary bomb. We have, we have made every policy choice to make nuclear proliferation more likely. So if what we're really talking about is nuclear proliferation, it's the hawks who are agnostic about whether or not they get the bomb.

[Dave DeCamp]

And another thing about that deal I just want to mention. So apparently the deal that was on the table that they were discussing would have been some sort of consortium for the nuclear enrichment. For that 3.67% there wouldn't be any Iranian only.

[Kurt Mills]

It would even have this absurd, basically Israeli invented neoconservative invented pretext of zero enrichment. There was even a sort of hole in the Death Star, if you will, to have zero Iranian only enrichment. It would have been shared with Saudi Arabia and possibly the fact that we didn't even explore that further.

[Dave DeCamp]

That was on the agenda for the talks on June 15th. You remember there's supposed to be talks between the US and Iran.

[Kurt Mills]

I've heard mixed things about whether or not that could have actually happened.

[Dave DeCamp]

But then what happened on June 13th?

[Kurt Mills]

Israelis bombed them in.

[Dave DeCamp]

The Israelis started bombing them. And what did President Trump say on Truth Social when the Israeli jets were in the air? He said, oh, I'm committed to a diplomatic solution with the Iranians or something along those lines. And according to the reporting, he sent that out when the Israeli jets were in the air when they were attacking Iran. So, you know, this relationship, it's made us complicit in, in, you know, going back on our word, just destroying our diplomatic credibility like that. And I think it just, it shows.

[Matt Gaetz]

How toxic do you think our diplomatic credibility is even judged by our relationship with Iran?

[Dave DeCamp]

I mean, I think, I mean, in the region, like, you know, what we, the things that we say and do.

[Matt Gaetz]

They all hate Iran in the region mentioned. Although those sun, those, those Sunni countries around there, they view Iran as, as a participant in this mischief to some degree.

[Kurt Mills]

They hate Israel too, though.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, I didn't say they didn't, but I, but like, you know, I, I don't know that I buy into the fact that like our, our chastity and our negotiations, like what all of American diplomatic credibility.

[Phil Labonte]

Israel's a useful foil for other countries in the like domestically. They can, they can say, well, you know, blame it on.

[Dave DeCamp]

One big difference about these negotiations between when Obama did it is that the Saudis wanted the Iran deal. So did they want the Iran deal back Under Obama, the Muslim world was ignited for, you think, you know, who didn't want it.

[Matt Gaetz]

So they believe that a deal can be done with Iran. The critique that I would often hear in Congress is there is no deal that can be done with them. Any deal you do, they will cheat. Let us give you the long parade of horribles as to the times when they've deviated from their otherwise stated agreements. What is, what is the answer to the argument that the Iranians simply can never be trusted?

[Kurt Mills]

I think that's made up. I mean I think the Obama deal was basically working. Trump wanted to have a better deal, so that was what he cited. I mean if you go back to April of 2018, that's when he flushed out McMaster, he flushed out Rex Tillerson and he installed Pompeo in Bolton. And I think it's pretty clear that he wanted to leave the Iran deal because Obama signed it. And meanwhile the guys who wrote the policy on it wanted no deal. His rationale for leaving the deal was super personalistic and different than Bolton and Pompeo's. Trump said he would meet with the Ayatollah. This is the guy who wanted to bring the Taliban. I know not Iran wanted to bring the Taliban to Camp David. His justification was basically he didn't personally negotiate this deal with Iran. Now putting aside whether or not that's a great thing for the President of the United States to do, that's what he did. But I think veil of ignorance. He wants a deal. And I think if you didn't have Israeli subterfuge and neoconservatives within the Republican Party making all of these moves, we would already have a deal.

[Matt Gaetz]

Do you think there is any deal that can be done with Iran that would please the more pro Israel components of the political right?

[Lot Eliyahu]

So there's a few different things that I feel like we need to talk to about to like include in the part of the conversation. So I feel like with Obama's deal, if I'm not mistaken, there was an ultimately a timeline which down the line they were able to achieve a nuclear bomb.

[Kurt Mills]

There was no, no, it's a nonsense provisions. The deal had to be renegotiated in 10 to 15 years. But that, but that would have had.

[Dave DeCamp]

The non Proliferation Treaty.

[Matt Gaetz]

There's also.

[Dave DeCamp]

They still would have been a signatory to the non proliferation.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, and I guess there's also the issue of Iranian proxies in the region which is responsible of the death.

[Matt Gaetz]

But before we get to the proxies, just on this question of denuclearization, because I think the proxy question is a total.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Because if we don't. Okay, so the consequences of not having an Iran nuclear deal though is significant sanct on Iran. And then if we have those significant sanctions on Iran, they're not in a position to support their proxies as much. So that's why this gets tangled up in all of that yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

Would you accept the argument that I actually care about the Iranian proxies considerably less than the Iranian nuclear program and that I might be willing to trade Iranian proxy capability for knowing that there would not be a nuclear Iran?

[Lot Eliyahu]

Tough question as an American, because as an American, I know that these Iranian proxies have the death of more American service members on their hands. Hands than any bomb that they'd ultimately acquire. I think a tough thing that needs to be until they use it, right?

[Matt Gaetz]

No nuclear bomb.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I mean, Iranian nuclear bomb that doesn't exist, hasn't killed any American service members, but their proxy groups have already are responsible for the deaths of hundreds, depending on how you count it. I think a big question here too is how much of a threat is Iran really? You are in Congress, I'm sure you were in. You have more access to information regarding the threat from them. When they say things like death to America and I mean the fact that the Iranian revolution was based on anti Americanism, how serious should we take their threats? Are they just posturing to try to get, you know, popularity within their. Or do they mean it when they say these stuff, this stuff and attack our troops in the Middle East? Some people say we shouldn't have them in there to begin with.

[Matt Gaetz]

But I don't even take it all that seriously when people scream in my face. I certainly don't take it that seriously when they scream at me across several oceans.

[Lot Eliyahu]

So an Islamist. So Islamist screams death to America. And you're not taking that threat seriously.

[Matt Gaetz]

We just welcomed, you know what I took seriously? You know what I took seriously? Their intercontinental ballistic missile program. And when they abandoned it in 2013, I took them considerably less seriously. Like, I actually take the North Koreans a lot more seriously because they have a delivery mechanism. They have a reentry vehicle. Even if Iran had a ballistic missile that could shoot at us, they don't have a reentry vehicle to get a warhead back into the atmosphere. And so. So like, when I look at their kind of chance and their, their naughty talk toward us, it just means less to me.

[Dave DeCamp]

What about a guy who joined al Qaeda after 911 to go fight Americans in Iraq and then went over to Syria to found Al Qaeda in Syria and then he becomes the president and we welcome him to New York City. Like, do you have a problem with that?

[Matt Gaetz]

That's just so Syria, by the way. I mean, Syria is the country.

[Lot Eliyahu]

My Neil Connery is going to go there. Like, I don't know. I'm just saying, suggesting that I support the President Syria?

[Dave DeCamp]

No, I'm just saying that the talking points about death to America, their proxies being a threat to us, like it's just clearly being used to push an agenda. When on the other hand, in Syria we've literally pushed. We literally just rolled out the.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Not thinking this.

[Dave DeCamp]

We literally just rolled out the red carpet for the leader of Al Qaeda in Syria.

[Lot Eliyahu]

And you think I'm a big fan of that?

[Dave DeCamp]

No, I'm just saying. I'm just saying that the talking work.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Israel's bombing Syria still, even though this new guy in office.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah. Even though they, they helped the regime change and celebrated it and Netanyahu took credit.

[Lot Eliyahu]

So I don't know what your angle is.

[Dave DeCamp]

No, I'm just saying that the reason why they wanted to oust Assad was because Assad was an ally of Iran. There was the weapons pipeline to Hezbollah and they would prefer an Al Qaeda guy in there over an ally of Iran. I mean, that's clearly true.

[Matt Gaetz]

I mean that's just good old fashioned Shia Sunni politics. Right. I mean, the Saudis are thrilled with this guy in Syria because they view him as more closely aligned to Saudi.

[Dave DeCamp]

Than the Gulf countries.

[Matt Gaetz]

This is very normative.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Do you think that Iran shouldn't be able to acquire nuclear weapons or do you think the President should have went into that nuclear deal with whatever percentage?

[Matt Gaetz]

I don't know how we think we're going to stop any of these Gulf countries from acquiring nuclear weapons, especially security guarantees.

[Lot Eliyahu]

That's what it's been.

[Matt Gaetz]

I kind of think that in our lifetime, Saudi is going to have a nuclear weapon, the UAE will have a nuclear weapon, Qatar will have a nuclear weapon, Iran will have a nuclear weapon. I think the era of proliferation in the Middle east is upon us. I don't celebrate that. I'm not cheering for it. But when you look at the democratization of talent around this space, you're not gonna be able to keep that amount of money away from that amount of desire to have the deterrent that a nuclear weapon affords.

[Kurt Mills]

The Israelis cooked up the proliferation issue in the 90s.

[Lot Eliyahu]

You don't think all those countries.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

You don't think all those countries acquire nuclear weapon.

[Kurt Mills]

I think if we can get a durable deal with the Iranians, that they won't proliferate. I think if Netanyahu is allowed to toss over a country again, then Istanbul is going to panic, Saudi is going to panic, Egypt's going to panic, and I think then you will see a lunch of the bomb.

[Dave DeCamp]

And that's just the Saudis Sign that defense deal with Pakistan.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, we've already seen the results of this. So if we actually care about nuclear non proliferation, it is incumbent upon us to do a reasonable deal with Iran.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Lot Eliyahu]

If we're saying effort, then I mean, what do you guys think?

[Kurt Mills]

I'm not saying.

[Lot Eliyahu]

No, wait, you're like finished.

[Matt Gaetz]

If.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, I mean if the idea is effort, everybody gets nuclear weapons. Maybe. I mean, what about Ukraine getting a nuclear weapon? We wouldn't have to.

[Kurt Mills]

No. Terrifying. I don't think you're going to have a nuclear weapon.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Okay. You seem more terrified about Ukraine having a nuclear weapon than you did potentially Iran getting a nuclear weapon.

[Dave DeCamp]

A lot of times missing from the conversation too is the fact that Israel has nuclear weapons. And do they? I don't know.

[Lot Eliyahu]

But no, seriously, then we won't. We would not need to send weapons to Ukraine and they would have a credible deterrent if they had a nuclear weapon. Right. So. So what's the logic?

[Matt Gaetz]

There are Republicans in Congress who hold that view. There are Republicans in Congress who do.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Believe Lindsey Graham, we should create a.

[Matt Gaetz]

Strategic force for Ukraine that includes a nuclear component.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, I don't think we should.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, yeah, I don't think we should do this with any of these.

[Dave DeCamp]

I don't think any of us.

[Kurt Mills]

Conversation over.

[Dave DeCamp]

Matt seems to be saying that he believes nuclear proliferation is inevitable.

[Matt Gaetz]

But rich countries, not Ukraine. But.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, but it's not that. But I don't think the argument is.

[Matt Gaetz]

For the countries that like, you know, World cup officials. If you don't have World cup bribe money, I don't know that it's like guaranteed that you get a nuclear weapon. But if you do, you're probably have some.

[Kurt Mills]

I mean they have real military capabilities. Right. I mean they were. And they had a nuclear program 40 years ago.

[Matt Gaetz]

Sure, we got them to abandon it.

[Dave DeCamp]

But, but I think it is a false question, you know, because there is a deal on the table where we. That we could enter with Iran and that they're not going to get a nuclear.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, I think the President knows having the deal.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think the President is more informed than you guys are on the specific nuclear deal. And I think he's getting a bad deal. I think, I mean you guys may think otherwise, but, but, but you acknowledge he wants to.

[Matt Gaetz]

A deal. Trump wants an Iran deal.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yes, he wants a deal.

[Matt Gaetz]

And what would be the core features of that deal? Trump could strike with Iran that you could support.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I don't think they should be able to achieve the nuclear weapons.

[Matt Gaetz]

Okay, so you have to. We all agree you have to take ultimate achievement of that off the table.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, that's a ultimate achievement. And the supporting of proxy group needs to be a key aspect of this as well.

[Kurt Mills]

It's not a nuclear deal.

[Matt Gaetz]

It's not going to happen.

[Kurt Mills]

That's not a nuclear deal.

[Matt Gaetz]

Is every Shia who like launches a weapon or sets off a roadside bomb being funded by a Iran? I don't.

[Lot Eliyahu]

But every Shia group that gets weapons from Iran, Ron. Sends them off as the Houthis. Wait, you know the Houthis?

[Matt Gaetz]

No, yeah, I know they're backed by Iran.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Has been not only backed like there's.

[Kurt Mills]

Their weapons are going to continue to get moved though. Yeah, this is not nuclear deal. It's just like until this make their missiles suicide on television we don't have.

[Matt Gaetz]

A deal until women don't have to wear a burqa.

[Kurt Mills]

They're not wearing them in Tehran anymore. Like they're, they're, they're not like since the new president in June, if you talk to anyone who goes in and out of Iran, they're basically not wearing them. I mean Iran is a more secular country in a lot of ways than Saudi. I mean I think it's even close.

[Dave DeCamp]

What about ballistic missiles? Would you want them to have to limit their missile program?

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, I don't think.

[Dave DeCamp]

Would you accept the deal without that?

[Lot Eliyahu]

No.

[Dave DeCamp]

Well then it's not going to the US and Israel.

[Matt Gaetz]

We will accept total surrender.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, it wouldn't be total surrender because guess what? We're not doing regime change. And they're lucky that's not happening. Look at the Maduro treatment that he's about to get right now.

[Matt Gaetz]

They are.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think they should be, they should know that they're on thin ice.

[Kurt Mills]

I think they're aware. Congratulations. Like, like there is a, there is a religious gerontocracy atop their stuff society and they in order to maintain some level of power have to have some stability for their regime. I'm not justifying that. But asking them to throw over all of their cars to use the president's term, is a non starter. They rather go to war. And so basically the hard line position is setting up a deal so bad that we're going to go to war. And I think the war is way too risky. I think it's not going to happen and I think we should avoid it.

[Phil Labonte]

What was that, Dave?

[Dave DeCamp]

I think another war is probably coming pretty soon.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, I think it's like you know.

[Matt Gaetz]

Who one of the biggest forces was against extended involvement in that war? Charlie Kirk.

[Dave DeCamp]

That's Right.

[Matt Gaetz]

You know, I mean, and I say that not. Not as an observer of it, but as a participant, because Charlie was the tip of the spear in this effort to showcase to the White House what would happen to the right if we were in some extended war with Iran. Charlie believed that so much of what he had built in getting disaffected young men to show up, register to vote, vote for Donald Trump, would be thrown asunder if we went into some, you know, multi year war as we had been in, you know, the 90s and early aughts. And he was so specific about it. He would coordinate when Steve Bannon would go to the White House, when Tucker Carlson would go, when he would go, when I would call, when other people would call. Charlie was such an effective operator that if he knew that he or I would be on television at a particular time discussing this issue and wanting our views to be understood by the President, he would do everything he could to get the people on Air Force One or in the Oval Office to flip it to RAV or One America News to absorb those messages sometimes delivered by the two of you on my program. And I wonder what's gonna happen without Charlie to. To hold that view and to express that view in what I think are probably pretty likely coming. Hostilities. Do you think hostilities are coming?

[Lot Eliyahu]

No, I think Israel mogged the countries, Iran and their proxies sufficiently. I think actually on the anniversary of October 7th, obviously we're talking now, but the two years since then, obviously, two years ago was one of the most horrific days in Israel's modern history. A bunch of war crimes.

[Christina Williams]

Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year?

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day. Obviously, the goal is a championship. That's. There's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We want to win a championship.

[Christina Williams]

I'm Kristina Williams, host of the podcast, in case you missed it with Christina Williams. The WNBA playoffs are here, and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[Kurt Mills]

It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge.

[Christina Williams]

That we have for all the biggest stories in women's basketball. Plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted. But we also know, you know, that's.

[Kurt Mills]

Just one stop along the way, and we're hoping to, you know, make it run.

[Christina Williams]

So listen to In Case youe Missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart woman's sports production in partnership with, with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

Run a business and not thinking about radio? Think again. Cause more people are listening to the radio on iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal mind marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart streaming, podcasting and radio where the reach is real. Let us show [e-mail] that's iheartadvert advertising.com. or call 844-844-Iheart one more time. Just call 844-844- Iheart and get radio working for you.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think it was like 800 civilians and 900 not civilians in Israel were murdered by Hamas. But since then, how effective Israel was at taking out the Hezbollah? And then, I mean, in their exchange with Iran, I feel like Israel's gotten the better of that with the toppling of Al Assad in Syria, who was an ally, some would say a proxy of the Iranian regime. The Houthis have been tampered down.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, they preferred the Al Qaeda guy over Assad.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Kurt Mills]

So hold on.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Assad, this is important, though.

[Kurt Mills]

This is important. But if you're wrong, if you're wrong, though, if the hostilities reemerge in say, the next 90 to 120 days, will you support them or you oppose them?

[Lot Eliyahu]

In what?

[Kurt Mills]

Well, because you just said they got mogged. You said, so there's no crisis. There's no crisis anymore. So why did the Israel.

[Lot Eliyahu]

No, I think, I mean, I think. I think a lot of people from your foreign policy persuasion like to fear monger around things that happen around these situations that don't pan out. So, for example, a lot of people said during this exchange that it was going to be World War III was breaking out now, that they were exchanging, there's going to be boots on the ground. But none of that actually came to.

[Matt Gaetz]

Without Charlie Kirk. It might have, yeah.

[Lot Eliyahu]

And war was cut.

[Kurt Mills]

They cut.

[Dave DeCamp]

They cut it short. Israel did not win that war.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Iran was hitting that exchange.

[Dave DeCamp]

They were hitting. They got the better. They killed more people.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Your impression is that they.

[Dave DeCamp]

Did you hear what I said? I said they killed more people, but they were striking Israel to the last minute. I mean, and they did some serious damage.

[Kurt Mills]

They were running out of.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Been hit by that before.

[Kurt Mills]

You think better if that. I think that they were running out of interceptors. I think the ceasefire at the end of the day was brokered on Israel's behalf, not on Iran's.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I just think with the amount of enemies of the state of Israel and proxies of the Iranian regime, that Israel was able to kill since October 7th is something that they should be really proud of.

[Kurt Mills]

Of.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I didn't. Relax, you don't need to freak out over there. I want to take this full circle, though.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Lot Eliyahu]

It seemed as though some people after Charlie Kirk's death are. We don't know what Charlie Kirk thought, but they seem to try to imply that he was progressing or growing in a certain direction with his narratives towards Israel. As I understand you used to be relatively more pro Israel than you are now. Can you talk a little bit more about how you grew into that position as somebody who was very pro Israel and what the situation was like in Congress for somebody who was. And then now on the outside who is. I don't wanna call you. I don't know if you'd say anti or just less supportive.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, I question the depth and the degree of the relationship now. And I have migrated on the issue. And by the way, I think a lot of young Americans have. I think Charlie Kirk's migration on the issue, my own migration on the issue tracks where a lot of Americans are. And for me, initially, I resented the fact that there was no appreciation for nuance. Like, if you asked any questions about any decision of the Israeli government in any place regarding settlements, regarding Gaza, regarding whatever, you were like you had deviated from the script. And I just. In any policy area, I had resentment over that. And then I saw the way the AIPAC worked, and that was weird for, like, a country lawyer like me. I remember my first AIPAC reception. And like, your fundraiser tells you you have to go, and your chief of staff tells you you have to go. Your committee chairman, I'll tell you have to go. And you get there and you wear this name badge. And I remember there's a QR code on it. And what we were supposed to do was go talk to donors, and then if they liked you, they scanned your QR code to Make a donation, like on the spot. And so this. Can you imagine how demoralizing that is to be told that your job for the next several hours to go chat people up, hoping they would scan you like a can of tomato soup on the way out of the meeting?

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, it's like literally purchasing, right?

[Matt Gaetz]

And so I, I saw that and I was like, wow, that is so freaking weird. And then, you know, I was in Israel. I went multiple times, and I did not like the fact that I found someone in my room rooting around in my stuff that should not have been there at the King David Hotel when I came back to my room, when no one was expecting me to be back in my room.

[Kurt Mills]

And I just.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Presumably, Israeli law, I don't know who it was.

[Matt Gaetz]

I just thought, like, this is weird. All of these things combined are odd. And then these. The policy outgrowth seems to be an obsession about the Middle east that has not served my generation well. I just don't think we're good at it. And that is not a criticism even of Israel. We've been talking about Syria. We had battles in Syria where forces funded by the Pentagon were fighting forces funded by the CIA. If you just wait long enough in Syria, whoever you're giving money to becomes the enemy, and whoever you're fighting becomes your friend. And I think that increasingly Israel views the world this way. There used to be, like two dominant capital markets in the world, New York and London. And Israel felt like they were very comfortable under that dynamic. And now we live in this world where the most important capital markets are in Riyadh and Abu Dhabi and Dubai and Doha. And I don't love that. I didn't cause that to happen. But I believe Netanyahu is trying to externalize his conflict. I believe he has serious domestic problems. And the way around those problems is to just sort of send the Middle East Awash and chaos and regime change and maybe some war migrants moving around. And if all of that happens, then there will be a reversion to the mean. London and New York will run things again, and we won't have to deal with the pesky emergence of these, of these Arab markets.

[Lot Eliyahu]

If I could follow up with you, it seems as though there is a growing anti Israel sentiment and definitely on the left, also on the right. What do you think is fueling this anti Israel sentiment?

[Matt Gaetz]

I think that with young, it's more driven by age than anything else, more than by politics, more than anything. So say, what is it about young people that is really causing this change? And I think that whenever you tell young people there's certain things you can't say or can't talk about or can't do, there is like a natural resistance, like this is our ideological curfew that we're being given by the boomers, that we're not allowed to question the US Israel relations relationship. And there's, there's natural reaction to that. Like even the whole BDS thing, all we'd heard on the right is BDS is anti Semitism. We have to be against bds. BDS is the worst thing in the world. And then Mike Huckabee gets mad at the secretary, at the interior minister in, in Israel, because he's not approving visas for touring Zionist Christians. And Huckabee says, my response to this is to tell people in the United States to cancel their trip trips, to stop sending money to these groups. And I may respond by punishing the Israelis by not approving their visas to the United States, which sounded a whole lot like boycott the trip, divest your donation and sanction with visas. And so we went from saying this was anti Semitism to watching Mike Huckabee become the leader of the BDS movie.

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, the left wing view in the world is that the big villains of the current conflicts are the Russians and the Israelis. But I will say this for the Russians. They're not asking anybody else to pay for it. They're not asking anybody else to have diplomatic cover for it. They're not asking anybody else to handle the refugee problem that will happen as a result of their actions. Israel is. Israel is asking for endless US Financial and military support. It's asking for unending diplomatic cover. I mean, cover the United Nations. The US Is Israel's bagman, effectively what is supposed to be a global forum for reducing conflict. Additionally, for any of Israel's major objectives, which basically undeclared regime change in Iran, they need the United States. They say that openly. And additionally, if they're not going to just murder everybody in Gaza, which I think they still could, most of the real plans are a US Redevelopment plan in Gaza or basically a US Ethnic cleansing by moving all of these people on boats to places like Libya or Madagascar, the Israeli Navy is nothing to really write home about. It would have to be the U.S. navy. And when you're talking about subverting the MAGA agenda, quote unquote, and talking about how mass deportations aren't happening because of Thomas Masie, I think we are far less likely to do mass deportations in the United States because we are spending all of our time doing mass deportations in Gaza.

[Lot Eliyahu]

That's odd given the biggest supporters of the president who this is agenda is for our Zionists. Of course I did want to have.

[Kurt Mills]

Biggest supporters of the president who pushes agenda for our Zionist who pushes the.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yes.

[Matt Gaetz]

Other than Joe Biden part of the.

[Dave DeCamp]

MAGA agenda that yeah, I'm a Zionist. Joe Biden that people voted for was to get out of the Middle East.

[Kurt Mills]

No one is more America first in Zionists. I mean, I mean it's quite, it's quite the claim.

[Matt Gaetz]

Donald Trump went to South Carolina and called George W. Bush a war criminal.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

Over these wars in Iraq. He was like he, he was more Rand Paul that Rand Paul. He, he would call Rand Paul and say, say I'm more libertarian than you are.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Do you think, do you think like.

[Kurt Mills]

The, the sort of like laid off glass factory worker in Toledo who voted for Obama Biden twice in 08 and 12 but then pushed, you know, the button for, for Mr. Trump in 2016 was like ah, I am just excited to get a real Zionist in there.

[Lot Eliyahu]

But no, I said some of his biggest donors.

[Kurt Mills]

You said you said his big.

[Lot Eliyahu]

You didn't use donors and supporters.

[Kurt Mills]

I'll let you amend the record. But you did not say some of you said his, his biggest. You said, you said the vanguard of the man.

[Dave DeCamp]

I will say that because of the.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Trump campaign funding is different.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah. I'll just say that language.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, Elon, Elon was the biggest funder of the campaign.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Wasn't the, it wasn't the Adelsons this time.

[Matt Gaetz]

I think, I think Elon's work in Pennsylvania actually got, got a lot more attention now.

[Lot Eliyahu]

You're cutting Zionist money isn't big enough.

[Dave DeCamp]

But I'm just saying it is like against the MAGA agenda when it comes to the grassroots. Like the people that came out and voted for Trump, like especially the young people, they want nothing to do with these wars in the Middle East. But the problem is, is that you know, wanting to get out of the Middle east and also be this supportive of Israel just doesn't compute. You know, talking about Syria in 2019 when Trump said he was going to stay because he was initially going to leave, but then he decided to say everybody remembers he said I'm going to stay and secure the oil. That's one thing I always appreciate about Trump is you know, he says things like that. But another thing he said was that he was staying there because Israel after asked him to. So this is something that you know Israel and Jordan. And why do we give military aid to Jordan? Why do we give military aid to Egypt? It's like, you're never going to get out of that region if you're like, well, why not?

[Matt Gaetz]

Why can't we just be honest with all of our friends? I don't believe that we have to like shun Israel in order to achieve some sort of foreign policy balance. I think we just have to say, okay, you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu, you have to go home and face the music with your own domestic politics without starting war with your neighbors.

[Kurt Mills]

I agree with, I don't think Israel needs to be BDS'd. And I think we are entering the zone in which Israeli security is more precarious because of what they're doing. Yeah, I mean, I think, look, not to be like a squish on this, but I think there was basically an era of Israeli politics where a two state solution was super possible. And Netanyahu's entire political career has basically he let his opponent get murdered in order to become Israeli Prime Minister. Basically on the issue of two state.

[Dave DeCamp]

He just said recently he visited a settlement and he said, I kept my promise. Remember I was here 20 years ago. I said I would never allow a Palestinian state. Well, here we are.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Dave DeCamp]

So he, I think he's much more open about it.

[Kurt Mills]

I think the heightening of contradictions on that is actually what could actually be the most could usher into the demise of Israel. And if Israel doesn't exist in 80 years, it will be remembered that Netanyahu, not anybody else, was the greatest enemy of the Israeli people.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I want to talk a little bit more about the domestic situation re Israel and how Americans feel about Israel writ large. I definitely agree that there is a growing segment of the right that is anti Israel. But I think a bigger concern for Israelis should be the growing dissent within the Democrat party and the far left. And why is that? I mean, I think you guys could agree to that, right? Israel's increasingly more, at least for their.

[Kurt Mills]

Biggest vulnerabilities on the right.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Okay. I think among the far leftists, Israel is less popular. And why is that? I think the reason for that is because Israel is right wing coded and they believe that Israel is a settler, colonist, settler, colonialist society. And because of that reason, Israel is irredeemable and that they should.

[Matt Gaetz]

What if it's just whiteness?

[Lot Eliyahu]

It is, it is.

[Matt Gaetz]

What if it's just that?

[Dave DeCamp]

I think it's also just seeing pictures and videos of children like ripped apart.

[Lot Eliyahu]

By bombs every day.

[Dave DeCamp]

You can say, I mean this is just something we haven't addressed yet.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Okay, so we'll address it after. So among the left, Israel is white and right wing coded and they believe that they are a white settler colonialist settler colonialist state in the vein of how America was set up. So I feel like for many far leftists and socialists it's a self loathing of their Americanism that helps evolve into anti Israelism. In our country. The socialist left is the biggest constituency for anti Israel people. And I feel like isolationist types should keep in mind that who they're allying with in this case are oftentimes people who are anti white, pro immigration hate ice are usually antifa and our far left agitators and I think they're making causes. So I've seen one more sentence. I've seen this manifest, I've seen this manifest in how the libertarians are willing to have rallies with literal communists in the vein of being anti war. And you know what? I have no common cause with communists. I think it's bad to have common cause with communists. I'm an ardent anti communist as Phil would say. So I think we really need to take that piece in mind when we see people on the right willing to work with these people on the left left who literally hate their guts.

[Dave DeCamp]

If it's something wrong and something evil, then we should oppose it no matter who opposes. Yeah, I mean again this, what we've seen over the past two years is like a mass murder live streamed. And you can justify it and argue for it, but at the end of the day it's a foreign country.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Dave DeCamp]

It's not in our interest to support this in America.

[Matt Gaetz]

No.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Israel, not because of the recent war in Gaza.

[Phil Labonte]

You do way too much. If you don't align with what I want, then you're aligning with, with the bad guys. You do that with libertarians. You do, you're doing that right now with the, with the legislation and that.

[Kurt Mills]

Is chopping off the lid.

[Phil Labonte]

That's not how, that's not how normal.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Further than Thomas Massey.

[Phil Labonte]

It's not how normal people think. He's in Congress.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Okay, look who else is in Congress. Thomas Massey is A1 of 1 as far as he goes in you, you.

[Dave DeCamp]

Allied with people on like, you know, you consider the far left in Congress on single uncertain issues.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, well like the stock trading issue is, is a classic case that's presenting right now. Now I don't believe members of Congress should trade stock. It turns out that the communists in some cases are Unbought communists. They sincerely are communists and no one is paying them to hold those positions. And just like I resent people that hold positions for money, they resent that. And so I am actually willing to work with the communists to ban congressional stock trading.

[Kurt Mills]

You know who opposes that? President Trump, of course. I mean he attacked Hawley.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, I think there was one particular version of the bill. I don't. President Trump has come out in favor of said hey, but he has, he has come out in favor of congressional stock trading bans on a number of.

[Dave DeCamp]

Occasions, including recently and your stuff like again we covered this a [e-mail] the bills you would introduce to pull out a certain conflicts. Somalia, Syria and you know, the people that would align with you, you know you would have some Republicans but also some progressive Democrats. So I don't think there's anything wrong with working.

[Kurt Mills]

You know why you can't work with people when you agree, not work with them when you disagree.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, that's. I mean that's exactly what we should do. The idea that oh look, if you don't agree with me about this particular topic then you're just against the entire agenda. I totally reject that.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, I mean obviously American voters in some levels are basically a principle are prisoners of the first past the post system that we have this ridiculous two party system. I don't think we should do anything to strengthen that system. System. It's already, it's already enough of a bind as it is.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, my politics are antithetical to the left. I'm an anti leftist and I don't think you should.

[Kurt Mills]

What is the left?

[Lot Eliyahu]

Communist. Literal communists rallying. I'm giving you a specific example. Give me an example of a Libertarian party.

[Phil Labonte]

The Libertarian Party is not communist. That is the most absurd, ridiculous thing that you say.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Angela Merkel held a rally.

[Dave DeCamp]

Angela Merkel.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well known libertarian. Angela Merkel.

[Lot Eliyahu]

She was like the spokesperson for the Libertarian. Yeah, I went to that rally Communists with.

[Kurt Mills]

Is this a congressperson?

[Dave DeCamp]

This is.

[Matt Gaetz]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let Angela McArdle who used to be.

[Phil Labonte]

The LP's the chair.

[Matt Gaetz]

Go ahead, make your point.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Is having anti war rallies with communist groups. You will never find me rallying alongside any communist. I'm staunchly an anti communist and I don't think you should. Broken clock is right. Like.

[Kurt Mills]

So you're citing, you're citing a third party. The nation's largest third party, Libertarian Party. So there's that. But doing an alleged event with literal communists. I would like. Well, I'd like to see Pretty sure they were at the rally. Right. Were they literal communists?

[Dave DeCamp]

I was there. There was some communist groups there.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Literal communists.

[Matt Gaetz]

All right, fine.

[Kurt Mills]

All right, Just making sure. So, like, what's an example in, like, mainstream politics where, quote, small l libertarians are aligning with literal communists? Like, I have never seen Thomas Massey.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Well, the Libertarian Party, right. I mean, I guess you're right.

[Kurt Mills]

Thomas Massey, member, largest party.

[Lot Eliyahu]

No, he's not. I don't think.

[Matt Gaetz]

No, he's like, he's like a cardinal. Yeah, I mean, I like their events.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I mean, I think I demonstrated my point. May not accept the Libertarian Party convention.

[Kurt Mills]

Does that make him a literal communist?

[Lot Eliyahu]

No, I think that's.

[Kurt Mills]

Does that make Vivek Swami?

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think that also.

[Dave DeCamp]

Let me make a point, Let me make a point because I work on a single issue project, Anti war Dot Com. We run stuff. My boss always says, my boss, Eric Garris, who founded the site, he, he's always proud of, you know, some of the examples, like when the site first started, Pat Buchanan was a columnist and so was Daniel Ellsberg, and they like, hated each other. Well, and, but, you know, we were publishing both of them. And so from my experience working with people kind of all over the political spectrum on one issue, I mean, I think it's good for the country because you'll have people on the left who think like, you know, libertarian or people on the right are just, you know, monsters. And, and obviously you get that vice versa, you get to know each other, you get to understand that, like, your political opponents aren't, you know, necessarily evil. And then like, it changes people's mind and it can bring people closer to our ideas. So I think there's a lot of positives to this and like, you know, optically having a rally and people with like the hammer and sickle there, that doesn't look good. But single issue stuff in general, I think is a, is a, is a net positive thing, especially when it's something as evil as what's happening in Gaza.

[Kurt Mills]

As the party standard bearer, this is not a doctrinaire Republican. He's never been his entire life.

[Phil Labonte]

No, I mean, so the idea that.

[Kurt Mills]

We'Re going to start dividing, like, I don't think even he wants that.

[Phil Labonte]

No, I mean, look, Donald Trump is a pragmatist if nothing else.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Right.

[Phil Labonte]

He's not ideological. He will change his opinion. If the result.

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[Christina Williams]

Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year?

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

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[Christina Williams]

I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast in case you missed it with Christina Williams. The WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[Kurt Mills]

It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge.

[Christina Williams]

That we have for all the biggest stories in women's basketball, plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted.

[Kurt Mills]

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[Phil Labonte]

Alts on the ground are not proving what he thought, whether it be tariffs, whatever the situation is, if it's not getting Donald Trump positive, if it's not getting actual positive results for the American people right now, maybe he misinterprets data or whatever, but if, if in his estimation it's not producing good results for the American people, he will change his policy. There is nothing that Donald Trump wants more than to go down in history as a positive, good president. And you don't do that by making the American people miserable. You can hate Donald Trump. The left is always gonna hate him. That's perfectly. That is absolutely obvious.

[Matt Gaetz]

Right.

[Phil Labonte]

That is self evident. But the idea that Donald Trump is trying to hurt America or trying to do things that are bad for America or that he won't change a policy if it's not proving to do what he thought, that's ridiculous. He's not an ideological, he's never been an ideological guy. That's why he went to the Republican Party to run in the first place.

[Matt Gaetz]

He saw, I think Trump saw the Republican Party as just an acquisition target, like an asset that had been put into such atrophy, like with the likes of Mitt Romney and John McCain, that he was like, I can just do a hostile takeover of this asset and I can improve its value. Very, very business approach. Serge, you have the, the Parscale article I want to talk about. About, I want to continue the points you were making about the domestic reshaping of perspectives on US Israel policy. And there was this, there was this article we had where I guess Israel had filed a FARA form that they were spending $4.1 million to target American Christians. Oh, there it is. Yeah. Oh, that's Dave. That's Dave's piece. Dave, why don't you tell us about it?

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah. So this is something that, that the Israeli Foreign ministry itself is actually funding this and the budget is up to $4.1 million. And they're calling it the largest Christian church geo fencing campaign in US History. Essentially what it is is targeted digital ads targeting American.

[Matt Gaetz]

They're going to geofence Protestant churches.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

And they're going to plow message into those churches.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yes. And the specifically pro Israel, anti Palestinian message, according to the document.

[Matt Gaetz]

Documents.

[Dave DeCamp]

And so this is a targeted propaganda campaign at American Christians. They also have this plan to create an October 7th mobile experience, like a trailer that's going to be designed by some Hollywood people. I don't know exactly what that's going to be, but this is a big information campaign because of what we are seeing. The growing skepticism among American Christians and evangelicals are historically a very strong base for Israel. But not everybody is like a Christian Zionist in the sense that they believe they have a theological reason to support Israel, like Mike Huckabee. So this I think really shows the, the desperation. But so this is, you know, a foreign country specifically targeting American Christians.

[Matt Gaetz]

Do you have a problem with that, Phil? You okay with it? 4.1 million just doesn't seem like that much money.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, I mean, in the like, when it comes to like the, the, the grand scheme of things, like the whole U.S. it doesn't seem like a lot of money. I mean, if they're going after Protestants, they're going after churches that are like, in between Buffalo Wild Wings and like the shoe spot. So I don't really care a whole lot, to be honest with you.

[Kurt Mills]

But those are just the far off filings.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, that's just the far off the thing.

[Kurt Mills]

These are so overt, they had to register.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's an important point because Israel, the way APAC is set up, you know, there's a lot of lobbying that goes on that is not reported. But, like the.

[Kurt Mills]

This.

[Dave DeCamp]

But what I think it shows, you know, it's not so much the scale, the number, although I do think, you know, they're going to spend 3.15 to 3.25 million over five months on this. Like, that's a pretty big budget.

[Phil Labonte]

I don't think that they're going to get traction.

[Dave DeCamp]

I don't think it's going to work.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, I don't think they're going to have traction. I don't, I really don't think that, that spending, you know, spending money on ads is going to help Israel because the Internet has already, like, done such a. Such.

[Kurt Mills]

They're betting we're wrong. I mean, I mean, obviously Israel's falling.

[Matt Gaetz]

Victim to Grifter influen is what I'm seeing in this story.

[Kurt Mills]

I honestly think they would be very.

[Matt Gaetz]

Finally, Israel has been victim.

[Dave DeCamp]

And I think this shows that there is some desperation here and they see that they're losing, they would be better.

[Kurt Mills]

Off not doing this messaging, in my opinion, at all. I mean, to merge threads. I mean, that guy, the number of times that he had to deny that they had anything to do with Charlie Kirk's death fed into the narrative that they did.

[Matt Gaetz]

I.

[Kurt Mills]

Not asserting that, but it struck everybody as very suspicious.

[Matt Gaetz]

And wasn't it weird that failure if nothing waved around? Yeah. Netanyahu had this letter from Kirk that he waved around, like constantly in the moments after his death and then like, hasn't released the whole thing. And what I've heard is there's a great deal more context in that letter and I didn't know that.

[Dave DeCamp]

I thought he put out the whole thing.

[Phil Labonte]

I do think that the idea of.

[Dave DeCamp]

There'S like, it was just excerpts that he put out.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, no, I, I'd heard some suggest.

[Dave DeCamp]

That there was, there was more.

[Matt Gaetz]

More. More information.

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, it is strange, you know, like, they, I mean, that's why this conversation is important, because Netanyahu immediately tried to make, you know, him basically a martyr for the pro Israel cause.

[Kurt Mills]

Yes.

[Dave DeCamp]

So this conversation definitely needs to happen.

[Kurt Mills]

He was a warrior for the West, a warrior against Muslims. He said all these things.

[Phil Labonte]

That's, that's true. But the, like, I agree with you guys that not who did that, but the idea that like the Israelis had something to do with his, his murder. I'm not arguing, I'm not saying that you are, but there's a lot of people that are saying that on the.

[Kurt Mills]

Internet and I think they're failed prior to.

[Matt Gaetz]

Why do you think, what's your basis to, to disprove that?

[Phil Labonte]

Well, I think that. Well, I mean the. Tyler, Tyler's dad turned him in. The kid's dad turned him in. Like the gun was, was his father's. If there's new information or information that I don't have, and I'm not suggesting.

[Matt Gaetz]

There'S, I'm not suggesting there's any evidence that Israel had any involvement, but I just think that to, to make any determinations about the evidence seems misguided. I wouldn't make any determination about anyone's culpability or not culpability until. I mean, I do think it's interesting that Andrew Colvitt, one of the people closest to Charlie Kirk in the world, felt like one of the things he needed to share with authorities in the moments after Charlie Kirk's death was this, this rather raucous exchange about money being withheld and Charlie saying he's leaving the pros.

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, look, I don't have any insider information, so if there is something that comes out that says, that says that Israel was, was involved, then hey, I'm wrong, right? No big deal. But as of right now, I don't see anything or I haven't seen anything.

[Kurt Mills]

It speaks to the civilization, the society they put together that so many people suspect them. I mean, that they, they are. I mean this is, this is.

[Phil Labonte]

I feel like the people that are most vocal about that are kind of knee jerk anti Israel anyways, though. Like they're going to be like.

[Kurt Mills]

But I mean, Israel, I mean this is, this is in the Ronan Bergman book Rise and Kill First. I mean, Israel has killed through assassination more and more people through assassination than any western country since World War II.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, but who are they killing?

[Kurt Mills]

Enemies of Israel, presumably.

[Lot Eliyahu]

And was Charlie Kirk an enemy of Israel?

[Kurt Mills]

Well, that the conspiracy theory, theory asserts that he was becoming one.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, well, I mean that's, that's the.

[Kurt Mills]

That'S the, that's the.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Yeah, I think anti Israel opportunists are using this as an opportunity to just try to imply that, David, I'm obviously responsible. I think Candace Owens, like, is playing into this because it's an opportunistic way for her to be anti Israel. There's also a very influential Arab comedian called Bassem Youssef Joseph, who, like, he's playing the comedian card where it's like, oh, I'm just, I'm just some clown. Although he's spreading misinformation about Israel being responsible.

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, look, if there's a lot.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Of evidence that Tyler was the person who murdered.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, look, if, if you've got people that are. If you got people like Nick Fuentes that are saying, no, I don't think so. I mean, and that guy's the first person to, you know, hatchet Israel. You know, I don't.

[Matt Gaetz]

Relying on Nick, I'm not, I'm not the facts on.

[Phil Labonte]

I'm not at all. I'm not saying. Anyways, and like I said, if there's, if evidence comes out there that, that connects Israel to it, then fine. Like, I don't, you know, I don't have a dog in that fight. But as of right now, I don't think that there is evidence. I understand people.

[Matt Gaetz]

You know what's weird to me, no one else was, like, killed. You know, if this is. If Tyler was some person that had some, some great grievance with conservatives or free speech or these events, you would think you would have an assault technique that would, that would tragically have been more like the Mandalay Bay shooting where, Come on, Gates.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Charlie Kirk was more important than any of the other guys around him. As long as he took out to him, that was his ultimate goal.

[Kurt Mills]

I don't.

[Matt Gaetz]

No, that very well may be true. That, that, that may well be true. But I mean, one shot from that distance, it's not a difficult shot to.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Make, all things considered, as I understand. Okay, not right, Phil. You shoot more guns. That is not a crazy.

[Matt Gaetz]

That's not a hard shot.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Not at all, as I understand. No, yeah. Hard shot, because I'll take your word for it. Technology. Yeah. So I don't.

[Matt Gaetz]

So, so, but, but on the, on the, the paid influencer thing thing, is it your view that that could work?

[Lot Eliyahu]

No. And I think 3.1 million is kind of chump change, as you mentioned earlier. And I don't think Israel is unique in doing this. And so, like, this is just the.

[Matt Gaetz]

Globalized information game that we're all a part of. Like, there is a part of me that looked at the criticism of what they were doing and just saying, look, information is so globalized now. There's so many powerful forces trying to plow information into various cleavages of the American electorate and the faith community.

[Kurt Mills]

But far registrations are fairly few and far between, at least in this kind.

[Matt Gaetz]

Of media blanket only because people break the law.

[Kurt Mills]

And then additionally, I mean it is, this is what Benjamin Netanyahu spending his time on. I mean other than visiting Donald Trump, he's at the front. I mean like what other. I didn't see Erdogan meet with a bunch of Turkish influencers when he was in New York.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Like, well, son Piker, I don't know if he's a proud Turk.

[Kurt Mills]

So though, did they meet with Erdogan?

[Lot Eliyahu]

No, no, I'm making a joke. I don't, he's, well, I mean the.

[Kurt Mills]

Joke'S not that good because like if, if it was truly analogous situation, I mean he would have flown to West Hollywood and make sure Hassan Piker was on message for Big Turkey. Right? But that's what Netanyahu actually did.

[Dave DeCamp]

And also the Oracle, the, the tick tock thing, I mean Netanyahu said, did you see that clip when he was speaking to influencers in New York? And he said what's the most important thing happening right now? When he was asked about the, this, you know, losing the, the evangelical Christians kind of losing their support for Israel and he said social media is the tool of battle that we have to use. And what's the most important thing happening right now? The TikTok purchase. And who's buying that? The m, the company with the main stakes is going to be Oracle. What is it? Larry Ellison, you know, super pro Israel. Huge.

[Matt Gaetz]

Is there, is there a person on the planet earth who donates more money to the IDF than Larry Ellison?

[Dave DeCamp]

I think they say that's like, they say he's the largest private donor to the idf. I, I, I think that's based on like a fundraiser from a few, the IDF itself.

[Phil Labonte]

Really?

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Phil Labonte]

That's hilarious.

[Matt Gaetz]

The friend now he owns Tik Tok, right?

[Phil Labonte]

He doesn't, he doesn't give money to Israel. He's like just giving it to the guys.

[Kurt Mills]

That's, that's probably bigger than, than any.

[Dave DeCamp]

Of this is, is the, yeah, yeah, the Tik Tok.

[Matt Gaetz]

So, so are, are you betting that when we're back here in 120 days, like resolving our core disagreement about whether or not not hostilities you're going to increase or decrease, you actually think that peace will, will, you know, will and.

[Kurt Mills]

I'm excited for his principle.

[Matt Gaetz]

No, by the way, we hope you're. I hope you're right.

[Lot Eliyahu]

There are a lot more dramatic ramp ups in other parts of the world that we should be more concerned about. But I think one reason or another. Israel? No, not Sudan. How about Venezuela? We're going to try to do regime change in Venezuela, but for some reason we're always a lot more focused on Israel. We'll say this to some of the viewers, if you have any dreams of getting into the influencer game or becoming a journalist, I will say this. Any story on Israel will get a lot of attention, no matter how insignificant. If you want some eyes on your scoop, no matter how small Israel does anything, you could bitch and moan about Israel, you could praise Israel. We love to give Israel a ton of attention. So if you're trying to get into the game and get eyes and clicks on your stuff, talk about Israel.

[Matt Gaetz]

That's why, I guess there's so many powerful people in media who criticize Israel.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, the Congress, it is a new thing.

[Matt Gaetz]

I guess that that's why media is controlled by Israel critics. Right now as we gather, I do want to talk about Venezuela though, because you raised that point. It is something we want, we want to address and we will. The good thing about the Israel discussion is we've made a series of pretty binary predictions and we'll be able to revisit them and the Internet will remember them forever. Venezuela, you have been critical of the administration's approach. Why?

[Kurt Mills]

Where to begin? I'll go with the easy one. I am concerned that members of the administration are just pretty openly lying about this. And I think that has clear echoes of the Iraq war run up where they were just fabricating intelligence left and right. The big one to obviously flag is that Venezuela is not involved in fentanyl in a major way. So the argument that we are targeting narco terrorists transporting fentanyl and thus they.

[Matt Gaetz]

Should be murdered, but fentanyl gets into the cocaine that Venezuela allows to be transported, right?

[Kurt Mills]

Right.

[Matt Gaetz]

Without the cocaine that they're sending, people probably wouldn't take as much fentanyl because they cut the cocaine with fentanyl.

[Kurt Mills]

It's possible some fentanyl is getting through Venezuela, but most of the fentanyl, I mean, the villains of the fentanyl trade are China and Mexico.

[Dave DeCamp]

And even if you look at the numbers with cocaine, most of the cocaine out of Colombia doesn't go through Venezuela.

[Matt Gaetz]

So what do you think are the administration's goals in Venezuela?

[Kurt Mills]

Oh, I mean, but I think that they are moving towards soft regime change. I think this is what Secretary Rubio has long wanted. I think he's changed and contorted his ideology a lot of different ways the last 10 years. But something that is a clear hallmark of it is pretty extreme hawkishness on Venezuela. And I think they think they can knock it over pretty easily.

[Matt Gaetz]

I think. I wouldn't make up a story, but I have a very different experience with President Trump and Senator Rubio at the time over Venezuela. Remember when John Bolton was running around with like 5,000 guy. Yeah. And yeah, there was this notion that Juan Quaido, someone you would probably call a communist, was going to be like the rightful.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Who we recognize as the rightful government as well. I think the real communist government.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I mean that's what the government stance was, I guess.

[Matt Gaetz]

I mean, based on Maduro's a worse communist.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I guess between the two.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, they were, they were both probably communist. But, but, but either way, you had Senator Rick Scott, who I have a very high view of on many issues, trying to convince President Trump that we needed kinetic military action in Venezuela.

[Kurt Mills]

I believe it.

[Matt Gaetz]

And Rick Scott laid out a compelling case for that foreign policy viewpoint. He had done all his homework, laid it out. And before I could even get in the conversation, Marco Rubio took the other side. And those guys get along really well. And Marco said, if you get into some war in Venezuela is a jungle conflict, there's going to be a guerrilla feature to this. We will be bogged down there forever. Rubio had specific information about where different naval assets were and explained that getting them in position to launch this we are moving assets was impractical. Yeah, but like Rubio was taking the anti intervention side as it related to Venezuela. I remember may have changed.

[Kurt Mills]

I don't think he's a cartoon character. I mean, I mean none of these people are, but I mean, I think the preponderance of the evidence is that he's supportive of a pretty hard line tact on Latin America and on Venezuela, that he's been fighting this shadow war with Rick Grenell about it, that Rick Renell is losing as of now and that we are ramping up and that a lot of this is being driven by the State Department, but also the war Defense Department.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Matt, if I could ask you, since you're a Florida jit, there's a ton of people in the cabinet who are Floridian and as I understand there's a large Venezuelan expat population throughout Miami or.

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[Christina Williams]

Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year?

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day. Obviously the goal is a championship. That's, there's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We wanna win a championship.

[Christina Williams]

I'm Kristina Williams, host of the podcast in case you missed it with Kristina Williams, the WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[Dave DeCamp]

It's really, really hard to be the.

[Kurt Mills]

Champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge.

[Christina Williams]

That we have for all the biggest stories in women's basketball, plus exclusive interviews with the games brightest stars.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted.

[Kurt Mills]

But we also know, you know, that's just one stop along the way and.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

We'Re hoping to, you know, make it run.

[Christina Williams]

So listen to in case you missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart woman sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lot Eliyahu]

That help influence the politics when it comes to this, a lot. Could you speak to how that could influence, I don't know, Susie Wiles or Marco Rubio or Pam Bondi?

[Dave DeCamp]

I think that consistency has a lot of influence. I mean, totally.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

No, it's a fair question. There are hundreds of thousands of Venezuelan voters in Florida who are our swing voters. And there were political figures like Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar saying that if the Trump administration would always take a maximalist view against the Maduro regime, that would be the best path to secure the support of those voters. And the reason that mattered at the time was because Florida was a swing state. Now, like Florida is Arkansas. We are not going to elect a Democrat statewide in our state for the foreseeable future. And so this, like, highly important, you know, political group in Florida that received all this attention probably gets less of that now just as a result.

[Dave DeCamp]

I mean, that's why the embargo is still in place on Cuba.

[Matt Gaetz]

Right.

[Dave DeCamp]

Because of the Cuban Americans there. They all want a hard line on Cuba. The sanctions to stay on.

[Matt Gaetz]

Marco. Marco principally among them. Yeah, this is, this is an issue Marco and I have discussed, discussed frequently. We have different views on the subject. I think that if sanctions worked, Cuba would be the Garden of Eden. But I have the view that if something has failed for half a century, maybe try something different. And I don't think we're any closer to the Cuban people being free. I have a great connection to the Cuban people, but I don't believe the sanctions have weakened the regime more than the people who are trying to survive there. And you're right, that key group of hardcore Cuban voters has been very politically powerful. It's where Jeb Bush got a lot of his initial momentum when he ran statewide. And it just is different when you're not a swing state. Also, generationally, these third generation Cubans are probably less tied to embargo politics because they don't think they're going back. The first and second generation actually thought they were going to go back and get their plantations back by the third generation. No one's like, eager to make that happen. And so that. That animates how people think.

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, I've seen Kurt battle with Venezuelans on. On X. Yeah.

[Kurt Mills]

I did not know that.

[Dave DeCamp]

They have a presence. And I mean, what. Maybe you know his name. He's a congressman. Carlos Jim Jimenez. Jimenez. When they bombed the first boat off Venezuela, you know, he's like tweeting in Spanish, celebrating it. And I mean, these are, you know, foreigners agitating for a war in a foreign country.

[Matt Gaetz]

I just feel it's an elected. I'm like a dove's dove, but I just feel like we have way more.

[Kurt Mills]

Bad bunny speaking Spanish. You don't care about Carlos Jimenez.

[Dave DeCamp]

That's right.

[Phil Labonte]

No one should speak Spanish at all in America.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Did you have an English.

[Dave DeCamp]

But I saw. I think it was just in Spanish. A lot of them do like they do dual.

[Matt Gaetz]

So what did he spoke in Spanish?

[Dave DeCamp]

No, I'm just saying it's like this is a constituency of people, like from this country who want our government to intervene there.

[Kurt Mills]

It's high conviction expansion paths, basically.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Kurt Mills]

Like, I mean, like, it's, it's people who have.

[Dave DeCamp]

And I think that's really what's driving this.

[Kurt Mills]

Of course, it's, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot of our foreign policy.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I think there's other aspects that we need to touch on too. There's also the oil markets that play into this. If we were able to install a friendly regime there, we would be able to compete harder.

[Kurt Mills]

We could deal with the current regime. I mean, basically, we don't, we don't have any. We. The administration has been sabotaging any of the deals.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Weren't these the same communists that nationalized oil industry?

[Phil Labonte]

They can't use oil industry anyways because they kicked out all the companies.

[Kurt Mills]

Communists. A narco terrorist. What is he?

[Lot Eliyahu]

Communist narco terrorist.

[Dave DeCamp]

But Chevron, what's interesting is that Trump recently.

[Matt Gaetz]

No.

[Lot Eliyahu]

What do you mean? They traffic drugs and they're communists over there. Am I mislabeling them?

[Kurt Mills]

I think there is drug running in Venezuela and I think at a certain point, if you're a isolated, impoverished regime, you are looking the other way and facets of your society and your administration are involved in it. But the idea that Maduro sits down like Joseph Stalin and there's lines of cocaine everywhere and like, this is the fentanyl.

[Matt Gaetz]

That's the president of Colombia, actually.

[Kurt Mills]

Okay. I mean, I mean, like, it's just, it's, it's, it's a child's view of the universe.

[Dave DeCamp]

So another point.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, no, no, no, you don't. Because I've studied Venezuela a good bit. I don't have a child's view of it. And I think that Maduro in many ways has to answer to the conglomerate of, of narcos. The control.

[Kurt Mills]

I'm just.

[Matt Gaetz]

Portions of his economy.

[Kurt Mills]

I was setting up a straw man. But my, my basic. Yeah, I think, I think he's in a tough neighborhood and he's involved in it. But the idea that there's no. Not going to be drug running in that part of the world, regardless of who.

[Matt Gaetz]

I'll tell you where. There isn't any El Salvador. I mean, there is a. There is, there are two models right now for Latin America. There's the Maduro model, which I think is far too permissive of that type of malign activity. And then there's the Bukele model and the two the two are really at war for the soul of a lot of these Latin American voters as elections are getting ready in Argentina.

[Kurt Mills]

Well, if we're speaking with the Latin American voters though, I do. And we're talking about like future Republican consolidating gains of Hispanic voters. I think if the administration spends its time killing basically Venezuelan fishermen on boats, I think that's actually going to.

[Lot Eliyahu]

They're drug runners.

[Dave DeCamp]

That's what they think.

[Matt Gaetz]

Anyone cares?

[Lot Eliyahu]

They're not fishermen. Why are you calling them fishermen?

[Kurt Mills]

I think there are people that are paid $1,000 to move drugs.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Okay, but those aren't. Fishermen are people who go out and see in boats and they take their rods in and then they reel in. I don't know.

[Kurt Mills]

I think, I think that it will lie about the issue. Second of all, they haven't, they haven't proved anything about who these people are. And I know I, I wouldn't be surprised if they anti the drugs ties being like their gophers to move this stuff. But they're not Harding criminals. And if they are, the administration reduced the evidence, but they haven't.

[Matt Gaetz]

We have to produce evidence.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, I think, I think we should. I think I'm against the drone.

[Dave DeCamp]

You can't just blow people out.

[Kurt Mills]

I'm against the drone strike.

[Dave DeCamp]

Against Obama terrorists.

[Matt Gaetz]

It seems as though they're to carrying payloads of drugs. I mean those seem.

[Dave DeCamp]

That's not how we handle drug trafficking. Like are we going to start.

[Lot Eliyahu]

That's how we should handle drug trafficking.

[Kurt Mills]

After 9 11, we moved towards a broad, a broad dragon of terrorism and I don't think it served the American people well. If we, if we had treated it as a police action, Osama Bin Laden wouldn't have brought to justice and we wouldn't have had all these.

[Dave DeCamp]

We're merging the drug.

[Lot Eliyahu]

The American people. Well, is loads of fentanyl being shipped into our country. That's really what's happening.

[Kurt Mills]

That's not, it's not Venezuela. Not Venezuela.

[Matt Gaetz]

I don't even care if it has to be fentanyl. I think we should bomb the meth labs in Mexico.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Now we're talking gates.

[Matt Gaetz]

No, I mean, look, and I am widely viewed as a dove, but I think we have actual interests here. I think we have an achievable interest. The interest in the Gulf of America is deterrence. Look, if you blow a few of these things up and you get that rolling on social media, I think people might think twice about traversing.

[Phil Labonte]

To your point, Colin Rugg was just, just tweeted a little While ago that the Sinaloa. Sinaloa cartel is threatening to target American citizens in popular tourist spots like Cabo in response to lab raids and seizures. According to Breitbart, a banner was recently erected addressing FBI Director Cash Patel. The banner first surfaced on Sunday in Baja California, where gunman left two banners allegedly signed by Los Chapos Chapitos, I think Breitbart reported. The banners claim that starting on Sunday, they will be targeting U.S. citizens in Mexico in response to recent lab raids and weapon seizures. Banners. The banners were quickly taken down by authorities. Look, if that happens, then I do think that.

[Matt Gaetz]

I don't even believe that they own the resorts. Why would this. Why, why would the cinema. That seems to be something that somebody would say about the Sinaloa cartel is a false flag. Because they are the ones who own the resorts in Cabo. Why would they do that to their own tourism industry?

[Kurt Mills]

I just think it's. I. I'm not what you. This would work. I mean, you think we could do.

[Matt Gaetz]

That in the drugs will work?

[Dave DeCamp]

Like, like there's going to be always going to be this big market. Like, the issue is that there's a big market for drugs in the. Americans love drugs. That's a ser. I come from a place that was plagued by that. But it's not something we could just bomb away. And like, I think it could make things worse. I mean, it could really destabilize.

[Matt Gaetz]

People are going to want drugs more because they see a Venezuelan.

[Dave DeCamp]

No, I mean, when it comes to the. The stabilization. I mean, you know, one reason why we're targeting Venezuela right now is because we can. Because, you know, they're under all these sanctions. They don't have any real allies. We're able to do this.

[Matt Gaetz]

No, they do have allies in the Caribbean that they provide cheap energy to. I mean, that's why. That's why we were getting screwed oftentimes in the votes in oas because they were subsidizing.

[Dave DeCamp]

But they don't have anybody not going.

[Kurt Mills]

To come to the defense.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, sure, but I'm in Mexico. Suriname might.

[Dave DeCamp]

But if we start in Mexico against the will of the Mexican government, I mean, what is that going to do?

[Matt Gaetz]

Like, the Mexican government to me is a construct, like saying the Afghan government, the Mexican government is but a feature of the narco traffickers. It is a captive narco state.

[Lot Eliyahu]

State.

[Matt Gaetz]

Wasn't it Nieto that took $100 million bribe from Sinaloa? So what do you have to believe? All the people who came after Nieto either weren't offered the bribe or didn't take it. Of course they did. So at that point, you're not really dealing with a sovereign country in Mexico, in my view. And I wasn't going to Cabo anyway.

[Kurt Mills]

Right.

[Dave DeCamp]

Do you think we should go to war with Mexico?

[Matt Gaetz]

I would rather go to war with Mexico than Russia or.

[Kurt Mills]

I think this is. I think this is something that will divide Iran. I think this will divide.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I'm down to bomb the cartels in Mexico.

[Matt Gaetz]

You haven't found anyone. You're not down to bomb.

[Phil Labonte]

Down to bomb.

[Dave DeCamp]

Can we stop some of the bombings in other places first? Like, this is one thing I thought was interesting. Steve Bannon posed an interesting question to Mr. Mills here when he was on and he said, well, this is the hemispheric defense. This is America first bringing it home. Well, we got to bring it home first. We're still across the globe involved in all these wars.

[Matt Gaetz]

We have to start one war before we can wind another one down. We couldn't get the Afghanistan war wound down until we started up the Ukraine one.

[Lot Eliyahu]

We didn't even start on China. I mean, we didn't even touch on China. All of the American bases in the Pacific.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Lot Eliyahu]

In Korea, as far as I can.

[Phil Labonte]

Tell, super important is real problem.

[Lot Eliyahu]

No, I feel like China's a bigger issue and I feel like more of the hawks in government are reorienting.

[Phil Labonte]

Venezuela and China are more of an important issue than Israel.

[Matt Gaetz]

We've always realized that there's a moment. And they always try to froth up non Armed Services committee members for big defense budgets. So they have this idea at Republican retreat, which I hated going to, cuz I felt like we were always in a state of retreat. But they bring us out there and they say we're gonna do a war game with the US And Taiwan. And so, like, you know, the war game starts out and like, as the war game goes on, they're like, now 13 people from your district have died. Now like this many US cities have been annihilated. It's like, don't you see we need more money for the defense budget to stop these things from happening. I was, was like, you all had me just give China Taiwan. Like, wait, why is it easier to defend Taiwan than just to find the smart people there that make computer chips and move them to the deserts of Arizona?

[Lot Eliyahu]

Wait, is that your position? That if China were to invade Taiwan, that we should let them?

[Matt Gaetz]

Of course, it is a home game for China. Anyone who tells you anything other has not seen what happens. How do we. We can't even get our aircraft carriers into the fight. Let me explain something you. China can hit a moving target with a hypersonic weapon and America cannot.

[Lot Eliyahu]

So do you think China could take over Taiwan now if they wanted to?

[Matt Gaetz]

Yes. And then I think.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Why?

[Dave DeCamp]

One thing they've shown you remember when Nancy Pelosi went there.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Dave DeCamp]

And they did these big drills.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Dave DeCamp]

One thing they showed that I think a lot of people didn't factor in is they could just put a blockade on Taiwan in like a second and.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Then we could blockade China. But I think this is the end of American.

[Matt Gaetz]

How do we, how do we blockade China? With the air to defenses that they have with our military.

[Lot Eliyahu]

We do a naval blockade. If you guys want to pull up, we could pull up a map and they're.

[Matt Gaetz]

Their hypersonic weapon systems will take out all those.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I know, but. Okay. If they sink ships in all of these straits, then they won't be able to pass their ships through. They're just as susceptible.

[Kurt Mills]

We don't know. We don't know. There's a ton. No one knows.

[Matt Gaetz]

Our strategy now is to get so many ships blown up that we clock the streets.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah. I think maintaining strategic ambuity in Taiwan is smart, basically. I mean, yeah. I think it's the normie position.

[Dave DeCamp]

I think that's ultimately.

[Kurt Mills]

We should rock.

[Dave DeCamp]

Trump's going to do too.

[Kurt Mills]

We don't know that Xi's to going to invade. I'm not convinced he's going to invade. I think. And, but I think, I think we make it way, way, way more likely that he invades. If we are bogged down in all these.

[Matt Gaetz]

Why don't we just de risk? Yeah, okay. I don't even know what that means. I don't even know how to do that.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Super chats are on the screen.

[Matt Gaetz]

Why don't you do it, sir?

[Phil Labonte]

He'll take care of it.

[Dave DeCamp]

Let me just mention one thing quick because we didn't get to all the topics.

[Matt Gaetz]

I just want to say we have another hour, homie.

[Dave DeCamp]

Oh, yeah, we're doing the membership.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, yeah. So this. So. So folks that stick around for an extra hour.

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, they didn't know what I was about to say.

[Matt Gaetz]

Now we're, now we're. We're going to get into other parts of the world. The wars that are not being talked about and it'll, it'll be good stuff.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Genocide of Christians somewhere in Africa.

[Matt Gaetz]

Super chats. Phil, you got us. Or Serge.

[Phil Labonte]

Serge will take care of it.

[Lot Eliyahu]

If you look right to the screen.

[Kurt Mills]

You can just read the name of.

[Lot Eliyahu]

The persons right here.

[Matt Gaetz]

Which in this case is Bruh.

[Phil Labonte]

Bruh.

[Matt Gaetz]

Matt, if you were the Attorney General, would you have reopened the investigation of the USS Liberty? I don't think that's. That's something that would. I. I think that would have required a lot of coordination with the Defense Department.

[Lot Eliyahu]

This guy's a Zionist. Chill.

[Phil Labonte]

There's a very unbelievable.

[Matt Gaetz]

I don't know. By the way, I would have started with Fouchy before I would have gotten.

[Lot Eliyahu]

To the US There is APAC fund in real.

[Matt Gaetz]

Okay, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Another super chat. Massey is a liar. He runs as a MAGA Republican. He's a pure libertarian. If he was honest, he'd run in the Libertarian Party. I loathe all liars.

[Dave DeCamp]

You wanted to lose. He would run in the Libertarian.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Fact check.

[Matt Gaetz]

True.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Instead, he's running under the veneer of MAGA when he's a Libertarian.

[Phil Labonte]

You're ridiculous.

[Matt Gaetz]

My. All right, here we go. Djw. My contribution. Whether you're pro or anti Israel, beware of the rumor. Dems and antifa have a campaign to use this to divide us before the midterms. Decide what is more important. Be smart about this. And this is my, sort of my point, that I actually want the pro Israel people in our church. Maybe not the pulpit, but certainly in the congregation. Others have a different view.

[Lot Eliyahu]

And what you said too, about Charlie Kirk trying to help continue to bridge that divide, I think you were really spot on with that. And he played an important role in bridging like a Gen Z Republican divide.

[Matt Gaetz]

But he was struggling through it, as you saw in those tactics. It was really hard. Allah would defend Israel to the last American soldier.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I don't know of any American soldiers that fought wars for Israel.

[Matt Gaetz]

Brian Masted. What was Brian Master.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Fighting for? An American army in Israel, which I think was the effect of the question.

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah, he. He joined the idf. Brave guy.

[Lot Eliyahu]

And he also served in America.

[Matt Gaetz]

Interrupt cast irl. Ouch. Is it usually better than this? Are we worse than usual? I think it's just the headphones being off. Headphones are on.

[Kurt Mills]

You can hear somebody speaking or.

[Lot Eliyahu]

No, they're right. We were yapping back and forth. It's been a yap fest.

[Christina Williams]

Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year?

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day. Obviously the goal is a championship.

[Kurt Mills]

That's.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

There's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We want to win A championship.

[Christina Williams]

I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast in case you missed it with Christina Williams. The WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[Dave DeCamp]

It's really, really hard to be the.

[Kurt Mills]

Champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge.

[Christina Williams]

That we have for all the biggest stories in women's basketball, plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted. But we also know, you know, that that's just one stop along the way.

[Kurt Mills]

And we're hoping to, you know, make it run.

[Christina Williams]

So listen to In Case youe Missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

Run a business and not thinking about radio? Think again. Because more people are listening to the radio and iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more American than TV, digital, social, any other media. Even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iHeart, iHeart streaming, podcasting and radio. Where the reach is real. Let us show [e-mail] that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844-Iheart one more time. Just call 844-844, iheart and get radio working for you.

[Lot Eliyahu]

That's my guy.

[Matt Gaetz]

Why now support regime change if the right does it? Do you, do you think it's a charge of hypocrisy that our supports for regime change are, are linked to who's in power?

[Dave DeCamp]

Power?

[Matt Gaetz]

Yeah.

[Dave DeCamp]

I mean, I don't support regime change in Venezuela. I'm very against it.

[Matt Gaetz]

I mean, what is the regime? I mean, you know, I don't even view it as like that meaningful an end state because what are we like, what do we think is emerging next in Venezuela? Like the next Thomas Jefferson?

[Lot Eliyahu]

Well, you. Who was the guy? You mentioned him again earlier.

[Dave DeCamp]

So that was an anti regime Juan Guaido, that's who.

[Lot Eliyahu]

I'm in charge.

[Matt Gaetz]

Oh Terrific.

[Kurt Mills]

No, he's. No, he's off the scene, but there's.

[Dave DeCamp]

He's in my. He's living.

[Matt Gaetz]

Are we doing more super chats? There's different players now getting paid until 10. All right. Okay. Just FYI, Matt, letter carriers and United States Postal Service workers still get paid as their budget is self funded. I just know I'm still getting paid. We're glad you're getting paid. I have to say my knowledge of the Postal service funding regime is diminished. Can we get opinions on the Monroe Doctrine in relation to Venezuela and Venezuelans oil exports to America's adversaries?

[Lot Eliyahu]

Monroe Doctrine is good and we shouldn't be isolationists, not in the world stage or in the Western Hemisphere.

[Matt Gaetz]

Isn't there something weird about like our, our opposition to the war in Ukraine and then like the way that that's impacted Venezuela policy because we had to do all these sanctions on Russia, which then meant that Biden had to sort of loosen up the secondary sources of Venezuela to get more onto the global markets to reduce price. So at the end of the day, if we're just picking which dictator gets to sell oil, you know, is there, is there any moral clarity to it at all?

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, I mean, I would say just lift the sanctions and buy, you know, trade the oil will.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm pro Monroe Doctrine, but I think it's. I just looked it up. I just did a Google AI. What does the Monroe Doctrine actually say? It says European powers should not interfere or colonize the newly independent nations of the Western Hemisphere. 1823. Happy 200th anniversary of the Monroe Doctrine. All those who didn't celebrate it two years ago, let's make it more maximal. We'll say no powers should interfere or colonize with the fully independent nations of the Western Hemisphere. Yeah, there's ways of doing that. And what I would do is bring in whoever rules Venezuela more into the fold instead of making it accessible for Russian, Chinese and Iranian money. I think Maduro wants to do a deal and there's a way to do that without like murdering him and a bunch of people in Venezuela.

[Dave DeCamp]

They've been accepting deportation flights. That's something that I believe Rick Grinnell got.

[Kurt Mills]

People in the administration have been. I've been going out of their way to isolate the Venezuelans and I don't. You have. Have personal experience with Rubio, but all the available reporting is that Rubio, State Department and Rubio's guys are driving the hard line on stuff like not trading oil with Venezuela.

[Dave DeCamp]

He Also, in 2019 when they tried, when they backed Guaido and everything. Rubio tweeted out a picture of Gaddafi the moment that he was being brutally killed as a threat to Maduro.

[Kurt Mills]

And I think Maduro is, I think.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Remember that you Florida jets, they have an affinity. So this is the guy who I.

[Kurt Mills]

Said this to Bannon this weekend. I. I think you should think of him as a Latino Gaddafi. And what did Gaddafi say? You break it, you buy it and you're going to have all these refugees coming across the med to the United States. And we already have seen elements. It's probably getting in trouble. More Venezuelan people on the Internet. But like we've already seen elements of refugee crises out of Venezuela into Colombia.

[Matt Gaetz]

Doesn't like a third of Venezuela live in Colombia right now?

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, I think the number, you know, the migrant approaching a million crisis was exacerbated by the sanctions and there was all these. Exactly warnings. The Department of Homeland Security was writing up these reports saying basically, you know, if you put these sanctions on them there's going to be even more migrants from Venezuela. They did it anyway. This was John Bolton and Elliot Abrams leading. Who's Elliot Abrams is a neocon. You know these were the guys leading this policy in the first administration and it created a migrant crisis and you know, similar thing would happen here.

[Matt Gaetz]

What's the right answer in Venezuela? Just the. A deal with Maduro. Yeah, yeah.

[Kurt Mills]

May it deal with Maduro. Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

What are the features of that deal?

[Kurt Mills]

Oil trading, perhaps controls on Chinese money going in there would be something I would drive a hard bargain for. I mean we've kind of talked around this. I do think that while I'm a non interventionist on this stuff, I do think within the MAGA fold China and Latin America will be more divisive among people who are intellectually honest than Iran or Russia. Because yeah, people could see how you know, Venezuela.

[Matt Gaetz]

But, but Venezuela's gone kinetic. What about China's? I mean is is likely to accelerate to that acuity.

[Kurt Mills]

What do you mean?

[Matt Gaetz]

Like what is the, what is the big China question dividing us? If you think obviously with Venezuela it's the bombing of these guys in the Gulf, you mean?

[Kurt Mills]

I think first of all, I think it means we're in a fascinating situation with China policy. Trump moved the Republican party and the United States significantly more hawkish on China. But there's every piece of evidence that China. Sorry that Trump now is probably a dove relatively within his own administration. I mean there was Bloomberg reporting.

[Matt Gaetz]

No, look at what he said in the 2016 election so I know China, they got a place in my building. I can work with these guys.

[Dave DeCamp]

I can get a deed of the inauguration.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lot Eliyahu]

He did.

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, but people forget that nobody would name China as a huge major threat. But like, I mean like they would do it in this very like elliptical way. Like Trump blamed China for stealing a generation's worth of jobs. Trump blamed all this stuff. Trump argued, sorry, not well stated. Trump took the call from the Taiwanese president during the presidential transition. So there were all these elements of hawkishness to Trump's rise to power that were way more China hawkish. But again within the continuum at this point Trump has not committed troops to Taiwan if they're invaded. Biden did. And Trump wants to do a deal with the Chinese and it's very clear that major parts of his administration do not want to do that.

[Matt Gaetz]

Well, Trump wants that deal just on trade principally.

[Kurt Mills]

Right. I think he likes Xi and I think he doesn't want a war and I think he, yeah, I think, and I think he's afraid of an economic, a wider economic war of China. I think he's actually isn't that smart. I'm fairly sympathetic to it. I mean, I mean, I mean I think like China is different than any country in the world. It is an actual peer competitor of the United States. And so I approach it a little bit differently. Like I just said, like I think we should maintain strategic ambiguity with Taiwan. I don't see why we have to get into the academics. Very similar to the Iran debate. There is a deal on offer. I think it will work and I think if we, if we are going to care about the preferences of the governments in places like Caracas, then one of the bargains we should drive is like hey, maybe less Chinese cash and less Chinese people.

[Dave DeCamp]

I think that's the way to do it. Besides, besides sanctions and bombing. Like I think that's going to make them.

[Kurt Mills]

Driving China out of South America is I think is like a cogent goal that can be done non kinetically.

[Matt Gaetz]

I think a lot of those Latin American countries just play us off of China and realize that they can get cash.

[Lot Eliyahu]

A I think we're going to do.

[Kurt Mills]

I think, I think they're more likely to do it if we start invading them again. Like, I mean, like, I mean it's the same thing with, with the Middle East. It's like it, it just will cause panic. If Venezuela can be topped over, why not Chile, why not Peru?

[Matt Gaetz]

I think Venezuela is unique in Latin America.

[Kurt Mills]

It's the most extreme example. But the Administration is warring with Brazil in pretty extreme circumstances.

[Matt Gaetz]

I mean, Trump put out a positive statement about Lula recently.

[Kurt Mills]

Well, they shook. They liked. He met him again. So he liked him. He remembered it. But I mean, like you could imagine. I mean, again, that's the whole thing about contact, though. They want to prevent Trump from ever meeting Maduro. Right. Because, like, he's going to like him. Right. It's the same thing with Iran. They want to prevent him from ever meeting Arachi Racheski.

[Dave DeCamp]

Right. After the inauguration, Rick Grenell went over to Venezuela, shook Maduro's hand, and came home with some Americans who were in jail there.

[Phil Labonte]

Yep.

[Dave DeCamp]

I mean, you know, I think it goes to show that, you know, there's a deal there.

[Matt Gaetz]

We didn't trade anything for him either.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kurt Mills]

I mean, you know, you know, the president more than anybody on this table combined and then some. I mean, fundamentally, my root of a lot of his foreign policy is that he's underratedly not a disagreeable personality now. I mean, famously this guy who fired people on television, he's famously very combative on truth social. But, I mean, he'll have Rupert Murdoch in his skybox and then the next day sue him. He's sort of like impersonal about that. And so, like, I mean, even with the Ukraine situation, I think the basic story, absent all of the intellectual discussion around it, is that Zelenskyy repaired his relationship with them. And then Trump kind of digs the European hawks on a personal level. He likes Ruta, he likes Keir Starmer, which nobody had in the bigger card a year ago. He likes Macron. He's very amused by him, very famously. And he also likes Putin. So where are we? We're at status quo. We're at stalemate.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Let's do some more super chats.

[Matt Gaetz]

Oh, yeah, sure. How do we do that? One second, guys. So difficult with Rumble to scroll through these, these things here. The thing that's driving people away from being Zionist is everyone from the president to the mayors are having to talk about Israel 24 7. The less you talk, the more we care. You buying that theory?

[Dave DeCamp]

I think people are certainly tired of hearing about it. I think that's one of the big things on the right, you know, among the younger people. Like the default was to be pro Israel because it's like, oh, the leftists are on the other side. You know, I'm pro Israel, but it's just come. It's just too much now.

[Phil Labonte]

There's just, you know, if you're, if you're on. Like, just being on X. Like, there are times where people will just like randomly make comment like you'll be talking about something and then they'll just be like, well, but Israel. And it's just like, why, why, why, why? Like, this has nothing to do with what we're talking about. And it's just, it's, it's, it is exhausting. It is incredibly exhausting because to me, Israel's like, there are people that think that Israel is the most important thing.

[Dave DeCamp]

I think it's one of the most important issues. Yeah, I, I, especially for my line of work, because it's like, we see what we're supporting over there.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, I completely disagree. But, but the point is there are people that are like, this is the most important thing because Israel controls the United States. And I understand that Israel has way outsized influence compared to how many, like, Israelis there are and how big of a country Israel is. But at the same time, like, I think that China, I think that actually Venezuela, those are, those are actually more important topics that we should be talking about. And I think Israel is like, way down the list.

[Matt Gaetz]

I like, take that super chat person who gave us $2.

[Phil Labonte]

Let Israel take care of Israel. Let Israel take care of Israel.

[Matt Gaetz]

Phil Duncan on you.

[Dave DeCamp]

Well, yeah, we should let them take care of themselves.

[Kurt Mills]

I think they're the ones driving that. Why we're, yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

So the, so is the insinuate. Oh, Serge. Oh, all right.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Spicy.

[Matt Gaetz]

All right. Well, I mean, yeah. Oh, yeah. I just, I, I go straight Ron Burgundy. I just read it. Could say anything by the end.

[Kurt Mills]

Yeah, that's why I scrolled.

[Matt Gaetz]

Thanks for saving me on that one. Let's go. Like, this is good right here. Matt, Oregon governor marched with antifa arrest question mark. I mean, if you, when you look at the way Todd Blanche and, and the Justice Department have unlocked these authorities to go after antifa. Like what people, the Trump administration were saying to me is we're even using Biden authority, you know, which is, I guess, like the worst thing you can do to people.

[Kurt Mills]

Is that good?

[Dave DeCamp]

I don't know.

[Kurt Mills]

They ran against it, right? I mean, like, why, why do the exact same thing as your. I mean, like, that good.

[Matt Gaetz]

What's going to happen when the left takes power? I want to be really bad.

[Kurt Mills]

It's going to be really bad base case. Or, or you'll have a magnanimous left wing president who will make the Republicans like ghouls. Like, either one is not good. It'll either be horrible or it will be politically Horrible.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah.

[Matt Gaetz]

But there hasn't been, I guess I don't doomcast about it because they're like, I don't think you've seen the Trump administration.

[Kurt Mills]

No, not really. Not in the same way.

[Matt Gaetz]

While there's like bluster at times that comes off the Internet, I think they've been rather judicious.

[Kurt Mills]

Agreed. I mean the risk though would be increasing the impression that you are doing it and then that being politically mobilizing. Right. Like, I mean, like the worst of.

[Matt Gaetz]

Both worlds to create the impression and.

[Kurt Mills]

Then to not actually because we're not doing mass deportations in this country. They're not happy.

[Matt Gaetz]

You don't, you don't count the self deportation as a mass deportation.

[Kurt Mills]

I think we're still below the Obama second term numbers. I mean, people can quit.

[Matt Gaetz]

So many people talk, by the way, talk to anybody who is trying to hire someone to hang drywall and see what.

[Kurt Mills]

We're not. We're not, we're not deporting 10 million people and I'm not even making the case for it. But we're not doing it.

[Phil Labonte]

I'll make the case for it.

[Kurt Mills]

I understand you will, but what we are doing is being cruel to immigrants online with memes and so like I can't imagine like just like losing Latino.

[Matt Gaetz]

Voters and no, they, they listen, I, a bunch of those Latino voters want to see those illegal immigrants go home.

[Kurt Mills]

We're super.

[Matt Gaetz]

Or even if they were illegal immigrants.

[Kurt Mills]

Themselves, Democratic voters anymore. I'm just saying, like, it will look really dumb if like the Republicans cosplayed as authoritarians for four years and then get kicked out of Washington because people thought that was the impression.

[Matt Gaetz]

Serge, are we going to go to our special hour? Yeah, I think let's just do it.

[Kurt Mills]

Can't fear rumbles back in here.

[Lot Eliyahu]

So can I do that? I'll get a last rumble chat in to you. Gates, I wanted to ask, since you're again a Florida jit, there's a governor race happening in Florida. Do you have a preferred candidate among the Republicans?

[Matt Gaetz]

I don't even know if the field set the, you know, the big question is whether or not Casey DeSantis is going to run for governor. I think if she did, she'd be a very compelling candidate to a number of Floridians who look at her. Byron Donalds is a dynamic candidate. Jay Collins, the lieutenant governor talking about running. So we'll see.

[Lot Eliyahu]

You don't have a favorite. You don't think?

[Matt Gaetz]

I, I like to let these things play out a little.

[Lot Eliyahu]

What is they'll have that political bone in you.

[Kurt Mills]

What is taking Casey DeSantis so long to determine?

[Matt Gaetz]

Just that she doesn't need to. Like, if you're Casey DeSantis, you have universal name ID. You have the best image rating. Byron Donald has been running for governor for months and can't seem to get above the mid-20s in any ballot test. You know, I think that she looks at and says, why do I have to have to be in now? There's a, there's a general rule that I like to follow which is you typically want to be a candidate for the least amount of time as is absolutely necessary to win the election. Maybe she's making that calculus.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

Run a business and not thinking about radio. Think again. Cause more people are listening to the radio and iHeart today than they were 20 years ago. And only iHeart broadcast radio connects with more Americans than TV, digital, social, any other media, even twice as many teens than TikTok. And that reach means everything. Just think about the universal marketing formula. The number of consumers who hear your message times the response rate equals the results. Now let's get those results growing for your business. Radio's here now more than ever. And iheart's leading the way. Think radio can help your business. Think iheart streaming, podcasting and radio where the reach is real. Let us show [e-mail] that's iheartadvertising.com or call 844-844. Iheart one more time. Just call 844-844-Iheart and get radio working for you.

[Christina Williams]

Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year?

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day. Obviously, the goal is a championship. That's, there's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We want to win a championship.

[Christina Williams]

I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast. In case you missed it with Christina Williams, the WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[Kurt Mills]

It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge.

[Christina Williams]

That we have for all the biggest stories in women's basketball, plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted. But we also know, you know, that.

[Kurt Mills]

That'S just one stop along the way. And we're hoping to, you know, make it run.

[Christina Williams]

So listen to in case you missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Thanks for giving that tidbit. Let's do the outros starting.

[Dave DeCamp]

All right.

[Matt Gaetz]

I'm Matt Gaetz. I host the Matt Gaetz show on One American News. I was in Congress for a while and do what we can to advocate for reasonable policies.

[Lot Eliyahu]

Still as a private citizen, Matt Gates, it's been insightful. Thanks for coming on and engaging with all my questions and headaches I was giving you. My name's a Lot Eliyahu. I'm a White House correspondent here at Timcast. I also cover a lot of immigration news and deportations and arrests. You can find the videos of my coverage on Twitter and Instagram. Lot Eliyahu. Thanks for tuning in, guys.

[Dave DeCamp]

Yeah, my name is Dave DeCamp. I write for Antiwar.com and I also do a daily podcast and YouTube show called Anti War News where I cover US foreign policy policy from our anti war, non interventionist perspective. And if you're watching on YouTube, go subscribe to Anti War News or we're also on Rumble Odyssey and then wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Kurt Mills]

I'm Kurt Mills. I'm the executive director of the American Conservative magazine, a magazine founded here or founded in Washington, D.C. in 2002 against the Iraq war by conservatives and friends. We're trying to in large measure prevent a recrudescence of such wars through our activist journalism. If you want to check us out, try www.theamericanconservative.com to follow my own personal commentary. U R T M I L L S on X. Thank you.

[Phil Labonte]

Don't forget, tomorrow morning Tate will be back doing the morning show. I am Phil that remains on Twix and the band is all that remains. You can check us out on Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and Deezer. You can check us out this next spring at the Louder Than Life Festival. We'll be putting together a whole tour. There will be more shows to be announced. Announced. Don't forget, the left lane is for crime. And we will see you guys in the after show.

[Matt Gaetz]

In the after show, we're going to continue our foreign policy discussion with these great experts. We're going to go deeper into Russia, Ukraine, and what we think are some of the origins of that conflict. There is a battle raging in Africa. You don't even know about that we're going to get into and we'll get perspectives on a way too early assessment of the 2028 Republican Future Field all in the after show. Sam Foreign.

[Kurt Mills]

Whatever team Phi is on.

[Unknown iHeartRadio Announcer]

Has a chance to win a championship.

[Christina Williams]

I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast in case you missed it with Christina Williams. The WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.

[Dave DeCamp]

It's really, really hard to be the.

[Kurt Mills]

Champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge that we have.

[Christina Williams]

So listen to in case you missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.