Mamdani's COMMIES SWEEP NYC, CIVIL WAR! w/ Alex Berenson

Summary

Timcast IRL

Episode: Mamdani’s COMMIES SWEEP NYC, CIVIL WAR! w/ Alex Berenson
Date: June 25, 2026
Host: Tim Pool
Main Guest: Alex Berenson

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the political earthquake in New York City, where several Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)–backed candidates, dubbed “Mamdani’s commies,” swept the primaries. The Timcast crew, with guest Alex Berenson, explores the implications for America’s political future, freedom of speech, and national unity. The conversation quickly spirals into foundational conflicts about the nature of democracy, civic loyalty, free speech limits, and the possibility—or reality—of a cultural or literal civil war.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NYC DSA Sweeps: Radical Rhetoric Goes Mainstream

• [00:00–07:32] Tim Pool describes the historic DSA primary wins as alarming, particularly because some of the candidates and associated organizations have made explicit anti-American and pro-violence statements. He questions:
  • How voters and political parties allowed such candidates to rise.
  • The impact of large “foreign-born voting blocs” in NYC.
  • Whether America can function with members of Congress openly calling for violence against the nation.
• Quote (Tim Pool, 00:00):
  "Do you believe we as the United States can have a member of Congress who stated, explicitly, they are here to bring violence to America to destroy the American empire? What do you think their intentions will be in Congress?"
• Tim references organizations like Columbia University Apartheid Divestment (CUAD) and the National Society for Justice for Palestinians (NSJP), highlighting their public calls to “undermine and eradicate America” by connecting the Palestinian cause abroad to activism and violence at home.

2. What Are the Limits of Speech and Representation?

• Debate on excluding extremist candidates from office
  • Tim Pool and Phil Labonte argue radicals with openly anti-American, pro-violence statements should be barred from Congress.
  • Alex Berenson is resistant:
    • [10:06, Alex Berenson]: "I don't agree with that. I don't want to be in the position of telling people in New York or Texas...you elected this person, but I'm not going to seat them."
  • Phil points out that if someone’s goal is “destroying society,” it’s reasonable for the governing body to exclude them.

3. Legalism, Precedent, and Moral Lines

• Series of hypotheticals test where guests would “draw the line”:
  • Should someone who says, “I want to destroy America through violence,” be granted Congressional power?
  • Where does protected political rhetoric end and direct threat begin?
  • Berenson resists banning candidates for rhetoric, drawing parallels with exclusion attempts against Trump and emphasizing the slippery slope of cancel culture from both left and right.
  • Tim insists the U.S. has constitutional and practical barriers against overtly subversive officeholders (citing insurrection clauses in the 14th Amendment).

4. Diverging Worldviews: Can the U.S. Survive?

• Tim Pool argues America is on the verge of a de facto civil war, with two mutually exclusive visions:
  • The “Constitutional Republic” vs. the “Multicultural Democracy.”
  • [90:05, Tim Pool]: "We are no longer one country. We are two countries."
  • Examples are debated: Sanctuary city battles against federal immigration enforcement, transgender and abortion policies, and questions of state vs. federal authority.
  • New York, California, Minnesota seen as warning signs of breakdown.
  • Berenson acknowledges the seriousness but remains “hopeful” discord can be resolved within the system.

5. The Constitution, Free Speech, and Political “Weaponization”

• Tim and Berenson spar about the true nature of the Constitution:
  • Is it a “living document” (Berenson) or a set of fixed principles (Tim; but he also notes the hypocrisy in all camps)?
  • Dissection of whether “hate speech” should be protected, with Tim pressing that both sides claim originalism but interpret based on moral preferences.
• Berenson:
  • "I believe in its principles. I don't believe...you should just lock everyone up for saying something offensive."
• Tim:
  • "No one actually believes in the Constitution. They believe in their moral interpretation of what the Constitution provides for them."

6. The Question of Universal Enfranchisement & Voting Reforms

• Tim criticizes universal mail-in voting, NGO ballot harvesting, and low-information voters.
• Proposes “Selective Service” as a filter for voting eligibility—contrasts elite rule vs. rule by charisma and mass manipulation.
• Berenson warns voter restrictions won’t end elite capture or fix systemic issues.

7. Historical Analogies & Civil War Parallels

• In-depth historical comparisons:
  • The language and perception of the Civil War’s start (e.g., after Sumter, most Americans didn’t realize it was a civil war).
  • Bleeding Kansas, Lincoln’s suspension of habeas corpus, and moral catalysis for violent conflict.
• [104:10, Alex Berenson]: "There was a big argument...about slavery, right? Whether it was moral or not...But ultimately, I do believe there was a moral argument that led to a war."

8. The Limits of Dialogue: Can “Better Ideas" Prevail?

• Carter Banks and Brett Dasovic argue that the response to radical candidates should be better ideas and public debate.
• Tim (and at times Phil) challenges the practicality, raising the historic and present reality of violence from extremist actors and the dangers of political naïveté.
• [81:44, Brett Dasovic]:
  "When you get down to brass tacks and a person doesn’t even believe the country she’s representing should exist... how do you get anywhere with a person like that?"
• [82:01, Tim Pool]:
  "...the reason why I created a moral framework...a man wants to kill you, he is armed...the police will come and try to stop him...Now, let’s say the man screams outside, holding up a sign saying all white people should be murdered...Your intention is, I need to figure out how to coexist... His intention is, I will kill him the first chance I get. What happens?"

9. Violence, Incitement, and Fragmented Threats

• Mainstream right dismisses left’s capacity for violence; Tim and Phil insist left-wing violence is real and ongoing (Charlottesville, Antifa, incidents involving ICE, Aaron Danielson’s murder, etc.).
• The legal and ethical loophole in “fragmented” death threats and incitement, as used by Antifa and online activists—is the legal bar for incitement adequate in the age of implicit threat?

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Tim Pool [09:23]:
  “Their intention is the destruction of America. Socialism is a vehicle by which they're attempting to do that.”

• Phil Labonte [12:06]:
  "If someone clearly states that their goal is to destroy society, it's perfectly reasonable for...the governing body...to say you're not allowed to represent the people."

• Alex Berenson [13:52]:
  "Even if she says this stuff directly, it is political rhetoric. There's political rhetoric on both sides that's offensive to the other side.”

• Tim Pool [21:00]:
  “They’re specifically saying: bring violence to America... The DSA hasn’t disavowed that at all.”

• Phil Labonte [35:45]:
  “They say that Donald Trump is a fascist, he's a threat... But these people are actually taking action to do it.”

• Tim Pool [44:07]:
  “If you eliminate low-propensity, ignorant, and easily-manipulated voters and universal mail-in voting, it becomes increasingly more difficult [to game the system].”

• Alex Berenson [57:40]:
  "That's a cynical argument and it's not true... It provides a good framework for this country."

• Tim Pool [90:05]:
  “We are no longer one country. We are two countries...”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–07:32: DSA victory, accusations of pro-violence rhetoric, foreign-born voting, cultural fracture.
• 07:33–14:20: Introduction of Alex Berenson, his lawsuits over COVID censorship, and segue into NYC political radicalism.
• 14:22–21:45: Firing debate about seating “anti-American” electeds, Constitution, insurrection, and free speech.
• 30:09–41:00: National vs. state power; hypothetical conflicts, immigration enforcement, ballot integrity.
• 41:30–51:00: Universality of enfranchisement, voting reform, the “click-bait” democracy, manipulation of low-information voters.
• 54:47–62:26: Constitutionality and law, varying standards for gun rights and venue shopping; courts as battlegrounds for political morality.
• 69:48–75:12: Satirizing civil war scenarios (Babylon Bee), real-world left-wing violence, the “two countries” thesis.
• 81:44–88:36: The boundaries of coexistence, dialogue vs. confrontation with ideological enemies; the philosophical futility of persuasion with true believers.
• 101:26–104:10: Thought experiment—abortion as a metaphor for moral splits; civil war analogies; American past/present fissures.

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Memorable Moments

• Cultural Satire:
  The Babylon Bee’s “AI Civil War” parody [69:48] is used as both comic relief and a critique of conservative denial about left-wing violence.

• No One Agrees on the Constitution:
  Extended exchange where Tim demonstrates how every side uses the Constitution as a moral cudgel, not a neutral template [50:56–54:49].

• Historical Parallels:
  The show’s latter half is rich with Civil War analogies, including detailed discussions of Lincoln’s suspension of habeas corpus, the ambiguity of war’s onset, and how people historically fail to see impending doom until hindsight sets in [104:10–114:34].

• Alex’s Moderation Tested:
  A recurring dynamic is Tim pressing Alex to specify where his abstract commitment to process/moral restraint would yield in the face of existential threats, both historically and in the present. Alex insists on faith in constitutional process, even as the rest of the panel nearly shouts him down.

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Conclusion

This episode confronts the question: “Are we already at war with ourselves?” It presents a sobering account of political, cultural, and legal fracture, grounded in the latest electoral news from NYC and escalated by philosophical and historical debate. The Timcast panel vacillates between hope for institutional solutions and deep pessimism about coexistence with openly hostile ideologies. They leave open whether better arguments, procedural guardrails, or something darker will decide America’s fate—but agree the stakes are now existential.

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Additional Information

• Alex Berenson’s Book:
  The Fatherhood Manifesto: Conservative defense of fatherhood and masculinity; available on Amazon and Audible. [121:35]
• Rumble Uncensored Portion:
  Follow up and more raw conversations at rumble.com/timcastirl. [121:35–end]

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For listeners new to Timcast IRL, this episode is a microcosm of contemporary American debate—dialed to 11, unfiltered, and bristling with the anxieties (and hopes) of a deeply divided country.

Transcript

[Tim Pool]

Last night the DSA trio swept in New York City. They're calling them Mamdani's commies. And the fascinating things that one of these candidates has explicitly called for bringing violence to America to destroy the American empire. Now be careful, there's an organization, she was a part of, a couple of them, that said that their explicit goal is destruction of Western civilization, to bring violence to America and to destroy the American empire. Literally got the receipts will show you. It's absolutely insane. The fact that these people are now effectively being elected to Congress because it's a Democrat default district is insane. And I don't know how anyone in this country thinks that the right and the left of these totally divergent moral worldviews can ever live together. And I'm not trying to be hyperbolic or anything, but do you think, honestly guys, right now you can comment. Do you believe we as the United States can have a member of Congress who stated in explicitly they are here to bring violence to America to destroy the American empire? What do you think their intentions will be in Congress? Do we think it'll be the betterment of this country or of New York City? Well, my friends, Democrats are certainly learning and they're freaking out saying we, we didn't mean for this to happen when they backed all these squad members and far leftists. So New York is going full commie. And the funny thing is even Jesse Waters on Fox was talking about how it's, what is it, what is it? 40% foreign born. Yeah, some massive number. So you have massive voting blocs that do not like America, do not want to support America, that are now voting for representation in our wealthiest city. I don't think this bodes well. Even Donald Trump has issued a warning. So we'll, we'll talk a bit about that. And this is a not so political but major earthquakes struck in Japan, California and Venezuela. Venezuela was hit by 2. A 7.1 and a 7.5. Almost back to back. So people are kind of freaked out about all this, but we'll, we'll talk about that. And then I guess the, well, we got this story about a woman, the DEI hire, you may have seen where she dumped out the Knicks trash can, spilling all the garbage in the street. My attitude, my view, she represents the left perfectly. She's fat, she's a, she's a woman of color, she's marginalized, I'm going to call it. She's dumping trash into the street to steal from the public. And I'm like, is that not the left? These days. So we'll talk about all that. But before we get started, we got a great sponsor for you, my friends. It is Gaia G A I a dot com. You know, Guy, Gaia is a streaming platform dedicated to exploring consciousness, disclosure, alien disclosure, ancient wisdom, and the deeper nature of reality. Rather than treating disclosure as a single event or official announcement, Gaia examines a broader perspective. One that asks whether it's also connected to human awareness, perception and consciousness itself. They got documentaries, interviews, original series. They're exploring questions around extraterrestrials, hidden history, unexplained phenomena, humanity's place in a much larger reality. I like to say that if DMT were a streaming service, it would be Gaia, but we're big fans. Their content investigates the idea that disclosure may involve more than government documents or public confirmation. It may also involve expanding how people think about themselves, each other, and the universe around them. For those interested, check out Gaia. They offer a unique library of content designed to challenge assumptions, assumptions and encourage deeper exploration. Visit GAIA.com to learn more. Learn about disclosure through the lens of consciousness. Discover why so many people are exploring these ideas as humanity enters its next chapter. Don't forget, my friends, to also smash that like button. Share the show, Become a [e-mail] joining us tonight to talk about this and everything else is Alex Berenson.

[Alex Berenson]

Thanks for having me.

[Tim Pool]

Who are you? What do you do?

[Alex Berenson]

I. Some of your viewers may know me from COVID when I sort of became known as a skeptic of lockdowns and school closures. And then. And then I questioned the MRNA vaccines pretty thoroughly. Got kicked off Twitter for that. Sued my way back on with the help of a lawyer who represents us both, the great James Lawrence. And now I have the Unreported truth substack, which is my main form of communication. I've got a couple hundred thousand readers who, you know, generally I generally writing about health and, and the. The slow motion collapse of the American medical system.

[Tim Pool]

You're winning this lawsuit. Like this lawsuit over censorship and stuff is still ongoing?

[Alex Berenson]

It's still. Yes, it's still ongoing. I'm suing Pfizer now, so. So I sued Twitter. They put me back on in July of 2022 before Elon bought it. As far as I know, I'm the only person ever to have forced my way back on after a ban rather than being let on like, you know, Elon kind of let everybody back on. And then in 2023, I sued the federal government and Pfizer over their role in coercing Twitter to ban me. And that lawsuit. I've settled the federal portion of it. I settled it last month with the federal government and received a payout and an acknowledgment that the government had put what they called substantial coercive pressure on Twitter to ban me in 2021. But I'm still suing Scott Gottlieb, Dr. Scott Gottlieb and Dr. Albert Bourla. Scott Gottlieb is the former FDA commissioner under Trump one who moved. He's back and he's back in sort of private industry. He's on the Pfizer board and he helped coerced Twitter to ban me. And Albert Borla is the chairman of Pfizer. So. Yes.

[Tim Pool]

So this is going to be pretty interesting. Yeah. Thanks for hanging out. We love to talk about. It's good to have you. We got the boys hanging out.

[Brett Dasovic]

What's going on, guys? Twice in one week. How you doing? It's Brett normally doing PCC live Monday through Friday at 3pm but let's get into politics. How you doing, Phil?

[Phil Labonte]

Hello, everybody. My name is Phil labonte. I'm the lead singer of the heavy metal band all that Remains. Ian Crossland. Cannot change the weather but he's here.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, that's a deep.

[Carter Banks]

That's a. That's a very popped in the last minute.

[Tim Pool]

No, it's not. You say you can make it rain is a bowl mundane.

[Carter Banks]

I seek to. You gotta uncover why you believe that if you're gonna make a statement because

[Tim Pool]

people can't probably watch. Is nothing but Gaia.com like all day

[Carter Banks]

I got this outfit off of a. Off of a cowboy that I looted. I was just waiting for a moment to make that.

[Tim Pool]

This is the Rand, dude, the Rand Paul shirt.

[Carter Banks]

Cowboy. All of it, dude. I just looted it off a cowboy's corpse. I'm not a cowboy. Where did the hat come from?

[Tim Pool]

Stolen valor is pretty probably a 3 goodwill dude.

[Carter Banks]

Alex.

[Phil Labonte]

Stolen cowboy valor, right.

[Carter Banks]

Originally I wasn't scheduled tonight, but Alex, your stuff is like some of the.

[Tim Pool]

It's like the tip of the spear, dude.

[Carter Banks]

Because we're headed towards this corporate governance future. It seems like that's in one way or another. We either go in Trump's vision or in the World Economic Forum's vision. And your ability to resist the corporate tyranny was exquisite. I guess it's still ongoing. So you can.

[Alex Berenson]

Well, I'm hopeful that the. So the Second Circuit of Appeals, which is the which hand which is overseeing my case, will hear oral arguments in this later this year. And I'm very, very hopeful that they will say the suit can move forward and that we can get discovery, meaning that Pfizer will have to turn over some documents and that will. We'll be able to question these folks under oath and. Because I think, you know, not to go to, you know, Covid is done. No one wants to hear about it. But I think five years ago, there was a lot going on at the White House and with Pfizer, with the Biden administration in the summer of 2021 that I personally would like to know about. And I think it's relevant to my lawsuit. I think it'll be relevant to a lot of people.

[Tim Pool]

Agreed. Should be good. Let's. Let's get to the first story. We've got this from the New York Post. Democrats stunned after anti Israel, anti capitalist socialists sweep New York City primaries. The dancing days of the dirt bag left. I've got this tweet. Let me see if I can pull this one up. Joe Walsh. You guys know who that is? He was a conservative guy, and then Trump got elected and he, and he says, I'm going to be a Democrat now. And, oh, boy, is he regretting it. He tweeted, yes. Most Americans don't know what socialism is. I agree. But last night, Democrats elected candidates who want to abolish prisons, defund the police, who believe deporting even violent criminals who are in this country illegally is wrong, who believe America was to blame for 9 11, who believe capitalism is evil, who believe Israel is evil, and who want to eliminate all private health insurance. Most Americans know what socialism is, but most Americans don't. Support is like this. Now, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you guys in on a secret. These candidates aren't really socialists. They're anti American. Their intention is the destruction of America. Socialism is a vehicle by which they're attempting to do that. So why do they want violent criminals to not be deported? Because it's kind of like letting loose, you know, a bunch of wolves into the city. They're gonna run. Run around rampaging and causing damage. Why don't they, you know, why do they want to abolish prisons? So they can have a bunch of violent criminals rampaging through your city? These are people who have explicitly stated that they want. Let me see if I can pull up this tweet. I got something right here. This is from Eyel Jacoby Darieliza Avila Chevalier is a founder of cuad, which is Columbia University Apartheid divestment. The organization stated intention is to undermine and eradicate America through the use of violence in America. Explicitly stating divestment is not an incrementalist goal. The true divestment necessitates nothing short of the total collapse of the university structure and American empire itself. It is not possible for imperial spoils to remain so heavily concentrated in the metropole and its high cultural repositories without the continuous oppression of all populations that resist the empire's expansion. To divest from this is to undermine and eradicate America as we know it, stating at the end, we act in full support of the Palestinian resistance. This action is first and foremost an effort to extend the successes of the Palestinian resistance to the heart of the empire itself, to translate the resilience in Gaza to unrest and violence in America. And these people were just voted to Congress. So I propose. Paper panel. She should be barred.

[Brett Dasovic]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Members of Congress, Republicans should refuse to swear. The speaker should say no. She should not be allowed to take a seat in Congress.

[Alex Berenson]

So we were talking about this before the show started, and I don't agree with that.

[Tim Pool]

So you say nay. What say you?

[Brett Dasovic]

Brett, Bar her.

[Tim Pool]

Bar her.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Phil said. I already know. Phil's response is going to be like, deport next.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Carter, what do you think? Yeah, same as Phil.

[Carter Banks]

I got to further investigate these statements.

[Brett Dasovic]

Can you explain why? Because I guess my logic.

[Tim Pool]

But we're just real quick to. Ian, I'd like to know further.

[Carter Banks]

Did she write that? What we just.

[Tim Pool]

So that was. She's. She was the founder of an organization. There are two organizations. I don't know if she's the founder of both, but she's an activist and a leader in both. One's called Columbia University Apartheid Divestment. One is called the National Society. What is it? National Society for Justice for Palestinians. I think the nsjp. And that was the NSJP statement for which she is a part of that. That's her movement. As for cuad, they wrote their goal is the eradication of Western civilization. So her specific quote as the leader of CUAD is to destroy Western civilization and as a member of nsjp, the eradication of America. As I read, she said.

[Carter Banks]

She specifically said she wants to destroy Western civilization. Those are her words.

[Tim Pool]

Let me. Let me see if I can grab the quote. If I have it pulled up here. You know, what did I do? I not.

[Brett Dasovic]

At the very least, does the government not have the right to ask her? Like, look, you have a. You have a formal connection to a group like this, that has language like this. Can you either retract what you've said or divest yourself from this group?

[Alex Berenson]

No, I don't think so. I mean, she got elected or she's not been elected yet, but let's assume she's going to be elected. Democratic side.

[Tim Pool]

The organization. The organization stated this for which she is a founder. We are Westerners fighting for the total eradication of Western civilization.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah, I mean, she's an idiot. It's idiotic political rhetoric. And like, that's what politics is these days. There are plenty of people on the left who thought Donald Trump shouldn't be allowed to run for president in 2024. That was equally ridiculous.

[Phil Labonte]

But if someone clearly states that their goal is to destroy the society, it is perfectly reasonable for the, the governing body of that society to say you're not allowed to sit in the, in the position to represent the people of whatever district she's in.

[Brett Dasovic]

I would even argue that, like, if the idea was that she said that she wanted to radically change the society into a vision of her own making, that's different from the idea of destroying the society.

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, look, part of the Communist Control act is still, is still in, in could be still used like it hasn't been taken off the books. Part of the Communist Control act, the, the Supreme Court has said is unconstitutional, but there are parts that are still, you know, still could be enforced. I don't see a problem with enforcing the Communist Control act personally.

[Tim Pool]

I'm trying to understand.

[Carter Banks]

She's a Westerner who wants to destroy Western society. How does that even make sense? She doesn't. Which is strange. It'd be like destroying your own body.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, well, no, she wants, she would like to see. She doesn't believe. She'd probably. I mean, I'm, I'm going to make assumptions here, but likely she thinks that we should have direct elections, get rid of the Electoral College. Likely she thinks that we should abolish the Senate.

[Tim Pool]

Not likely she does.

[Phil Labonte]

Okay, so I'm saying that I don't, I haven't read anything specifically where she said that. I'm guessing at what she's, what she means because of the typical person that is on the left, the typical things they want get rid of the Electoral College. So it's a direct election, popular vote all the time. And get rid of the Senate because states don't need representation, which, I mean, arguably since the, I think it's the 17th amendment when they, they made it a popular for senators. Arguably the Senate doesn't perform the function that it used to perform prior to the 17th Amendment. But the proper solution is to get rid of the 17th amendment, not get rid of the Senate.

[Carter Banks]

So I think she's part of a group that has made some extreme statements. So I don't know. And she was one of the founders, even. But if I founded a company that. Then they went off and published something and I was like, what? I. I mean, I'm not. I didn't say that you guys, like, that's. Those people at my company said that. I can't.

[Alex Berenson]

But. But I'm saying even if she says this stuff directly, it is political rhetoric. There's political rhetoric on both sides that's offensive to the other side. And I don't want to be in the position of telling people in New York or Texas or anywhere else, you elected this person, but I'm not going to seat them.

[Phil Labonte]

You are not in Congress, so you don't have to be in that position.

[Tim Pool]

Well, so we have an empire. And the question is, is there a point at which you would feel there is a threat to the United States, continuation from her?

[Carter Banks]

No.

[Alex Berenson]

She's an idiot.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no, no, no, no. In general, like, what would a person have to do for you to be like, okay, this is. This is a threat to our country's existence?

[Alex Berenson]

Well, if the President of the United States started saying he should have a third term unconstitutionally, I'd find that a threat to the United States. But you know what? He stopped saying that.

[Phil Labonte]

But that.

[Tim Pool]

That. But that.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, that. That doesn't threaten the United States. We have had presidents in the past that have had more than two terms. Granted, we did. Okay, so we had a president that had more than. More than two terms, and that's why

[Tim Pool]

they did the amendment. So.

[Phil Labonte]

And that didn't destroy the country. The goal of people like her, and I understand that you're saying that her, as an individual doesn't have the ability but say a political movement, say the dsa overall. At what point do we say the DSA is actually hostile to the United States? Its stated goals are to change the United States through revolutionary action. At what point do you say this is. This is too much for a political party to be allowed to be in position?

[Alex Berenson]

I would never say that, ever.

[Phil Labonte]

What if there was so violent uprising?

[Tim Pool]

There was. What if there was like, the Kill the Jews party and they were like, Their political position is if elected, they would.

[Alex Berenson]

The DSA is coming to kill the Juice party.

[Tim Pool]

Well, I'm making. I'm making a metaphor intentionally, like I'm not explicitly saying the DSA is come, but I do believe that if you go to a private meeting of the dsa, they're going to be saying things very much like this. The point is, if a political party emerged where they were like, let's say the neo Nazi party of America emerges and they're like, if elected, we absolutely will start massacring and genociding people, would you be like, that's fine.

[Alex Berenson]

I would not like that. But I would not say that they aren't allowed to say what they can say.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, no, no, no, no, no. But we're not talking about saying things. We're talking about stated intentions.

[Alex Berenson]

Well, if they're going to try to carry out the genocidal murder of Jews and they're elected, then we're in a very dark place.

[Brett Dasovic]

What does the destruction of the American empire end up with? It doesn't end nonviolent.

[Alex Berenson]

I have no idea. She's a loudmouth.

[Tim Pool]

So, like, I'm just. There's no circumstance where someone's stated intentions would move you to be for or against them?

[Alex Berenson]

No, no, that's not true. The question is whether or not they should be banned and whether or not they're should be.

[Tim Pool]

There's, there's no point at which a person stated intentions would cause you alarm to think, we shouldn't give a gun to this person.

[Alex Berenson]

No, that's not the same thing either. I mean, if, if somebody shows up outside my house threatening to kill me, I'm going to be alarmed by that and, you know, take action.

[Tim Pool]

What if this person is like, I'm going to run for the chief of police, that I'm going to come back and I'm going to shoot you in the face? Would you be like, well, we should let her be the chief of police? I guess?

[Alex Berenson]

No, I would not want her to be the chief of police. But I mean, so that's a specific letter, right? If she said, I, I'm going to run for the chief of police and I'm not going to enforce the laws anymore. Okay.

[Phil Labonte]

Abolish the police.

[Alex Berenson]

Abolish the police.

[Tim Pool]

Which is what they're saying.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes. Okay.

[Carter Banks]

That.

[Alex Berenson]

You know what?

[Tim Pool]

Okay.

[Alex Berenson]

People are elect.

[Tim Pool]

We got it. We got it. Yep, I got it. Okay. What if she said so obviously if said she was going to shoot you, you'd be like, no, it's a no. That's a no go. Right?

[Alex Berenson]

Right. That's a direct.

[Tim Pool]

What if she said, I will position several armed angry people high on methamphetamines with rifles outside of your house for the purpose of destroying your home. When I'm police chief, would you still allow her to be police chief? I mean, that's crazy, right? Could you even really pull that off?

[Alex Berenson]

Well, and I, again, I think we're getting. We're crossing the line to a direct threat there.

[Phil Labonte]

So. But I think.

[Tim Pool]

I think saying you want to destroy America through violence is a direct threat to this country.

[Alex Berenson]

Is it? Is she.

[Tim Pool]

Is she in a position, literally a direct threat? Look at Congress. Yes, I think that.

[Phil Labonte]

I think that focusing on one person. Is this person in particular or specifically any of the individuals. I think that misses the point because we had three people elected. The DSA had a great night. There was a boatload of people that the DSA endorsed that were elected. And it's more than just a person. It's this movie that is absolutely a threat to the United States.

[Tim Pool]

So.

[Alex Berenson]

So what Democratic Party? I don't know if it's a threat to the United States.

[Tim Pool]

Let's say there's a cruise ship.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Right. And they've got, what, several hundred employees, maybe more. And you're there about to board for your vacation, when a guy shows up as an employee, and he says to the guy in the boat, hey, can you hire me to work in the engine room? And he goes, what's your qualifications? I'm going to blow it up. I will do everything in my power to destroy it through violence and destroy this cruise ship. And he goes, sure. Would you be like, that's okay. It's just words.

[Carter Banks]

What if he was like, leave it up to a vote among all the people?

[Tim Pool]

Even worse, what if the point is she was elected and the question we have now is, should we let this person into the engine room who has stated she's going to block the engine?

[Carter Banks]

Is there political rhetoric that bans you from being elected?

[Alex Berenson]

Right, that's right. That's the broad question, right?

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Alex Berenson]

And I think the answer to that is essentially no.

[Tim Pool]

Well, the answer is absolutely yes. It's in the 14th amendment, waging insurrection against these United States.

[Phil Labonte]

How can you swear to support and defend the Constitution if your stated goal is to destroy the United States? Those things are mutually exclusive.

[Alex Berenson]

I got to come back to what you said. I mean, I got to come back to what you said. You said insurrection. Right. That's exactly what the state of Colorado tried to do to Donald Trump. Right.

[Tim Pool]

And it went to court.

[Alex Berenson]

And it went to court.

[Tim Pool]

And they lost.

[Alex Berenson]

And they lost as they should have. It was absurd that the state of Colorado.

[Tim Pool]

And that's because it was absurd, because Trump did not stage an insurrection.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay, but there are people, there are many people on the left who believe he did. As for.

[Tim Pool]

They're lying. They're absolutely lying.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay, but they think you're lying.

[Tim Pool]

No, listen, listen. We're right. That's it. And the story. No, no, but hold on. I can cite for you decades of history and structure as to why they are lying, how they're lying, what they're doing, why they're doing it, why we're white, why we're right. And I think you know full well, especially based on Covid and the vaccines, what those people were intending to do to all of us and how they try to stop you from exposing them. We know they are lying. So when they come out and they say we want to bring violence and we already have, we've got an antifa guy who shot a cop. The net get 100 years in prison. And they say that they're just activists. They're lying when they say, elect me, I'm going to burn this country to the ground. They are not lying. We know what their intentions are.

[Phil Labonte]

And Trump never said that he was going to destroy the country, that it was an insurrection, that he was trying to. To overthrow the government. These people have specifically said their goal is not just to. Their goal is not just to destroy Western society. They're. They're specifically saying to use. Bring violence to America. So this is, you're.

[Alex Berenson]

Let's, let's not say apples and oranges. It's this one.

[Tim Pool]

No, that organization.

[Phil Labonte]

Okay, that organization. But, but the DSA hasn't disavowed that. They don't disavow that at all.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, they've got state reps now. It's not just these three people like these idiots. And I think the reason they like them is actually quite simple. When you have 40% of the city foreign born and they're going around saying, we're going to burn this country to the ground and steal their stuff. Yes. Non Americans are celebrating and voting for Tim.

[Alex Berenson]

What was the greatest gift the left gave the right in the last 15 years? Cancel culture. Cancel culture. You can't say it. You can't think it.

[Tim Pool]

I disagree.

[Alex Berenson]

Do it. This is the right trying to do that to the left and we'll have the same.

[Phil Labonte]

It was trans women in women's. It was trans women.

[Alex Berenson]

That was another kid.

[Tim Pool]

I do not agree at all. I don't think that that lines up at all.

[Alex Berenson]

Why not?

[Tim Pool]

Most people in this country do, don't like being told that men should be allowed in women's bathrooms.

[Alex Berenson]

Sure.

[Tim Pool]

So when they were silencing people, regular people were terrified they would lose their jobs for saying naughty words and that that created a big problem for them. Them now engaging in violence is still a big problem for them.

[Carter Banks]

Okay, my question is here, this is about destroying the American empire. Brett, you made up a good point. If they said deconstructing the American empire, for instance, that doesn't sound like a violent act.

[Phil Labonte]

I want to.

[Alex Berenson]

Destroying the.

[Carter Banks]

Now the question is like, okay, firstly, America is not an empire. It shouldn't be.

[Phil Labonte]

They didn't say the American empire though. Did it say the American? Okay, my bad.

[Carter Banks]

So I understand the, the consent, the, the ideal of like, hey, let's scale back, not be world police. We don't need an empirical state that's run by corporations and banks.

[Brett Dasovic]

Like, can you pull the statement up again?

[Phil Labonte]

Yes, because they, they also specifically said Western civilization.

[Tim Pool]

Here, here, here's, here's, here's one from Cua. American empire, CU.

[Brett Dasovic]

Apartheid.

[Tim Pool]

We are Westerners fighting for the total eradication.

[Brett Dasovic]

I just, look, I'm gonna, I'm still like, I just, I think I understand what you're saying, that basically you believe that the, the concept of the election is sacrosanct and it needs to remain in place. It's not something that we're willing to, to shove off for the sake of getting rid of a political movement. When I see the words American of the Western of Western civilization, like, I understand the idea is like, you don't want to let your, you don't want to be so open minded that you let your brain fall out. Like to me, that's where for, for me it's just like when we've gotten to the eradication of civilization, I'm comfortable with exercising power, but I want to.

[Alex Berenson]

What does that mean? Does that mean she's not allowed to like take the office that she's been.

[Carter Banks]

Yes, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

She absolutely.

[Phil Labonte]

She can't. Again, she can't take the.

[Tim Pool]

She's sworn into Congress.

[Phil Labonte]

She can't make the oath.

[Tim Pool]

She will be.

[Alex Berenson]

So you're telling, so you're telling, you know, 800,000 people in New York, 13. Your decision does not matter.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, I'll go further than that. I think, I think Donald Trump should send in the federal government for federal management of New York City and New York State.

[Alex Berenson]

It's not that bad. I live there.

[Tim Pool]

I would argue that the question of how do you define how bad something is that. Let me put it like this. After the Battle of Fort Sumter, we historically say a Civil war began. No one in the United States thought a Civil war happened. In fact, nobody in the United States actually used the phrase Civil War publicly and officially for years. And after Fort Sumter, in which we all agree the Civil War started, they had picnics at the Battle of Manassas because they thought there was no civil war. They were oblivious to the things that were happening around them. I think when you take a look at the fact that over the past several decades, New York has fundamentally transformed and now has a mayor who explicitly says he will use the power of violence and law enforcement against the American people and the federal government, it's time to send in the feds to shut that down. We should not allow our cities to be taken over by foreigners who explicitly state they are here to fight the American. The American voter, and the American will.

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, that's. Look, he was elected. I. I live. I don't live in the city anymore. I live upstate. But he was elected by the people of New York City.

[Carter Banks]

Okay.

[Alex Berenson]

And he is not. He done anything.

[Tim Pool]

Let's play that.

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, I'm not sure he said anything like that.

[Tim Pool]

He did, and he is.

[Alex Berenson]

He said what? That he wouldn't support ice. There's a lot of people.

[Tim Pool]

He said he is going to shield illegal immigrants from the federal government.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

The American people voted for immigration enforcement, and he said he'd use the weight of New York's power and law enforcement to stop that from happening.

[Alex Berenson]

Look, as. Okay. As a practical matter. And I very much.

[Tim Pool]

Insurrection.

[Alex Berenson]

It's not insurrection.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay.

[Carter Banks]

I don't know. I don't agree with that person.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

So.

[Tim Pool]

So. So let me.

[Carter Banks]

Let me. Let me just.

[Tim Pool]

Let me just.

[Carter Banks]

Let me just.

[Tim Pool]

Let me just ask.

[Carter Banks]

Is an awesome part of our culture,

[Tim Pool]

if somebody is elected, okay, and everything they do is legal, they don't take any actions outside of legislation. They wait for their legislative body to pass the law before enacting things. But things are getting serious to that point. Like, let's say Mom, Donnie gets city council to pass the Immigration Protection act, in which police are instructed to, if necessary, use force to stop ice. Would you believe he should then be removed?

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, I don't know what the details of that are. I. I don't think that. I don't think it's smart for the city of New York not to support ice, but if that's what they choose. I'm talking. I'm not talking about. I'm not talking about shootout I'm not talking about. I'm talking about, like, the stuff containers, specifically.

[Tim Pool]

Specific, hypothetical. Mamdani says, so right now, ICE comes in and arrests the guy. Mamdani says, we do not have the authority. We do not have the laws right now in place to stop ICE from doing this.

[Alex Berenson]

Right?

[Tim Pool]

City council convenes. Mamdani speaks before them and says, pass this bill to empower New York police to use force if necessary, to stop ICE from kicking our neighbors.

[Alex Berenson]

That would clearly be illegal, right? That's illegal.

[Tim Pool]

How is that illegal?

[Alex Berenson]

Because you're. You're telling your police officers to shoot at federal agents.

[Tim Pool]

I didn't say shoot to use force if necessary. What does force mean? Hands. You inferred lethal force. I never said that.

[Alex Berenson]

I think that.

[Tim Pool]

That it's just words. By the way, he should be allowed to do it, right? He's not actually saying shoot and kill cops. He's just saying, you know, sometimes force is.

[Alex Berenson]

But this is all hypothetical. Tim.

[Tim Pool]

I know what I'm asking you things up. I'm asking you, in that scenario, would you think the feds should intervene and remove it?

[Alex Berenson]

Yes, in that scenario. But that's not a real scenario.

[Tim Pool]

But I'm asking. I'm asking you this to understand your moral worldview, specifically because you've stated he's not doing anything that. That has crossed the line. But if he tries to codify it, he's crossed the line.

[Alex Berenson]

Listen, political rhetoric is political rhetoric on both sides, okay? That's telling your police officers that they can interfere with federal law enforcement officers is not rhetoric.

[Tim Pool]

They're doing it right now in New York and California, Oregon and Washington. Should they.

[Alex Berenson]

They're not helping.

[Tim Pool]

That's Gavin Newsom. California passed a law Newsom signed saying they will arrest federal agents for wearing masks. Should the feds go in and say, you can't do that. You can't.

[Alex Berenson]

I don't think the Fed should wear masks. I don't.

[Tim Pool]

That's not the question, though. The question is, as you stated, if he tried to codify empowering police to use force against Feds, that's illegal. Okay, so Trump should send the feds in and go arrest Newsom.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay, that's so. So now this is, like, really tricky. Issues of federalism, right? Like what state laws should be. What? When federal laws trump state laws, who has the power of law enforcement, which in the United States is supposed to be the states, not the federal government. Okay? The federal government supposed to handle borders. Military states are supposed to handle law enforcement.

[Tim Pool]

Since 1865. I know technically, 1876 things.

[Alex Berenson]

Right. Things have changed. Right. But there is a federal state poll. It's not the same in West Virginia as in Texas, as in New York. I like that about this country. It's a big country. That's what I was thinking as I was driving down here today. You know, I was driving. New York to West Virginia is 300 miles. It feels like a long drive. It's barely. The country's barely starting.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, crazy.

[Alex Berenson]

So it's crazy, right? So that's why it's good to have different policies in different states.

[Tim Pool]

I understand, but we're trying to understand the moral framework we exist under. Gavin Newsom and the state of California passed a law stating that federal agents may not wear masks. And the police are empowered. State troopers and local police are empowered to use force, if necessary to arrest these men. Is that okay?

[Alex Berenson]

Is that what the law actually says?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, they made it illegal.

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, I don't know.

[Tim Pool]

And then the feds. And then the feds responded with, don't obey. Wear the masks.

[Alex Berenson]

Right. So that's where we are. Right.

[Tim Pool]

So has the question is from a

[Alex Berenson]

moral point of view or from.

[Brett Dasovic]

From.

[Tim Pool]

I'm trying to figure out where your line is, because I got to be honest, you don't seem to have one. When should the federal government say, you have passed illegal laws, you are in violation of the Constitution, and we are sending in law enforcement to stop this?

[Alex Berenson]

Okay. If the federal government. If the Department of Justice believes that. That California law is illegal, then it should go to court, federal court, and get it overturned. Okay. It shouldn't. It shouldn't escalate.

[Tim Pool]

It's not. The federal government doesn't have authority over state laws.

[Alex Berenson]

Ultimately, the Constitution controls. Okay. And if federal court. Say. If the Supreme Court says that states do not have the right to regulate federal law enforcement that way, that will control.

[Tim Pool]

So.

[Alex Berenson]

So let's do it properly. Let's do it legally.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so let's say Mayor Zoran Mamdani passes, goes to city council. They pass a law saying that the police can use any and all force necessary to stop ice. And then ICE comes in to try and arrest some pedophile, and the NYPD stops them. Trump should let the pedophile stay in New York City until the Supreme Court next year might hear the case.

[Alex Berenson]

I don't think would take very long. I think that.

[Tim Pool]

I think it will, because we have questions of birthright, citizenship, voting rights that have been sitting with the Supreme Court for over a year already. Because the Supreme Court doesn't just Issue opinions like that, they come together, they consider them, they have to write their opinions out. It takes a long time.

[Alex Berenson]

If there were an active conflict between federal and state law enforcement.

[Tim Pool]

I didn't say that.

[Alex Berenson]

I think the Supreme Court would get involved.

[Tim Pool]

The cops stop the feds from arresting the pedophile. So the feds leave. The argument that you're making, if I'm understanding the scenario would end up in this way. So there's a pedophile in New York who's from Guatemala, who's raped a bunch of kids. ICE shows up to arrest him and

[Alex Berenson]

nyp, he should be arrested by the state of New York for doing.

[Tim Pool]

Sure, but they're not. As we already saw. Darieliza said violent criminals here illegally should not be deported. Of course, that's ridiculous and we agree on that. So if ICE tries to stop him, but the NYPD says you can't do this, you're going to have to leave and come back later. We need a judicial war. Whatever the case may be under your system, the pedophile shall remain in New York until Supreme Court condition in California and New York.

[Alex Berenson]

They aren't, as a practical matter, trying to stop violent criminals from being arrested and deported.

[Tim Pool]

Incorrect.

[Alex Berenson]

Is that true?

[Tim Pool]

They're absolutely violent criminals, not just Grego Garcia. Yeah, I mean, the lengths they've gone to protect a guy who beat his wife, who is. Who is already caught smuggling people, admittedly, who was adjudicated twice as a member of MS.13 and they have lied about it endlessly. Yes, they're absolutely trying to keep wife beating human traffickers in this country. So at a certain point, you have to ask yourself if you are a man of action or if you are going to sit by as everything burns down around you and you know, that woman thing is burning.

[Alex Berenson]

Nothing is burning.

[Tim Pool]

What does that mean, nothing is burning?

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, nothing in New York City's burning. Maybe the trash can got.

[Tim Pool]

Do you think? Do you think?

[Alex Berenson]

I'm not. I'm not a fan of rhetoric, that is.

[Tim Pool]

Do you think during the American Revolution everything was in chaos the whole time?

[Alex Berenson]

No, of course not.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, Nothing was burning. So why have it? Why have the revolution? In fact, the revolutionary period was over 20 years and they didn't sign the Declaration of Independence until a year after the war already began. Nothing was burning. Why bother, right?

[Phil Labonte]

It's worth making the argument that the consequences historically of these kind of people being in positions of authority or having a majority has been disastrous for countries. So the actual question is, at what point do you actually say we're not going to allow this to happen to our country and, and, and take some kind of, some kind of legislative action or some kind of law enforcement action to prevent this stuff from turning into. But they're literally calling for an actual revolution.

[Tim Pool]

Let's just go Godwin's Law. Full Godwin's Law. Should Hitler have been prevented from taking office? I mean, obviously, in retrospect, everyone's gonna say yes. And so the argument the left likes to make is that Trump is Hitler and for this reason he should be prevented from taking office. That's because there are no principles, only morals. And I understand these people have morals that I find to be detestable. They are liars. They lie for political power. The right certainly has some people who are lying for power. Just because they say it doesn't mean it's true.

[Phil Labonte]

They're evil.

[Tim Pool]

They claim I was paid by Russia. They made it up. Merrick Garland and Joe Biden fabricated a criminal case against two people who nobody knows exist, targeting a Tennessee based company with zero evidence. And they use that as a weapon to try and destroy us because we're, we have no investors, we have no funding, we have no connection to the Trump administration. We are regular people who are speaking out in, in pubs and bars, angry at the tyranny of the establishment machine. That, you know exactly what they were doing as they. Let me just throw in, throw in something to the mix. Did you read the Stanford report on the MRNA vaccines from December that said that men 30 and under had a 1 in 16,000 chance of getting myocarditis, which shortens your lifespan on average seven years? And they lied about it. Telling young men to get something that they knew 1 in 16,000 is not a rare side effect, and that is a terrifying side effect that was not disclosed. And they knew and lied.

[Phil Labonte]

And Alex.

[Tim Pool]

So when these people are trying to make billions of dollars off of something they know as a side effect, they won't disclose. And then they lie about me. Yes, they say a lot of things about me, but we know they're lying and we know they're evil.

[Phil Labonte]

And your point about, oh, well, you know, they say the same things about you. To Tim's point, they are lying about what the right says and what the right wants. They're specifically saying. They say that, oh, Donald Trump is a fascist, he's a threat, et cetera, et cetera. He's gonna do this, he's gonna do that. And there's no evidence, none of this stuff has materialized. He was in office for four Years. He was out of office for four years. He's been in for two years. None of the stuff that they talk about is actually materializing. These people have presented legislation to defund the police. These people have presented legislation to expropriate property. These people have presented legislation. They're actually trying to enact the things that will destroy this country. So I understand that they do say, oh, hey, you know, Donald Trump is this big bad guy, but these people are actually taking action to do it.

[Alex Berenson]

Why do you think it's okay to take away someone's vote? Because that's what you're doing if you're

[Phil Labonte]

trying to take away people's problem.

[Tim Pool]

Well, hold on, hold on. Welcome to Tim Cast irl where I think, like, more than half the people here are in support of disenfranchising a lot of.

[Phil Labonte]

I think that, I think that the. I think that universal enfranchisement is an Absolutely.

[Alex Berenson]

Who's getting disenfranchised?

[Phil Labonte]

I would give. If I, if you could promise me that the Constitution is actually sacrosanct and the rights protected in the Constitution are actually untouchable, I would throw my vote away in a second. In a heartbeat. I have no illusions about what my vote means. There is, there is 330 million Americans. There's something like 175 million Americans that can actually vote. My vote doesn't actually mean shit. And we lie to people and tell them, your vote's so important, it's so important that you vote for this, blah, blah, blah. And then we allow people to think that if you elect a president, you're electing a king and he's just going to come in and fucking and blah, blah, blah, blah. And this is, this is on the right, too, because there are people that are pissed off at Donald Trump because he hasn't done things that they wanted him to do that he never had the power to do.

[Tim Pool]

I will say, with respect, being the Tim Cast IRL foil, I appreciate you sitting here as we're all, you know, angry, debating, but let me, let me, let me, let me ask you some questions. Let's say we're going to have an election on who should own, be in charge of this property, right? And you're here, too, and you say, I'd like to be in charge or, you know, I don't have a vote, right? So today will be the vote. And everyone in this room will cast a ballot. We'll put it in a box, and then we're going to count those ballots to figure out who's going to be in charge. Wait. I think it would only be fair because there's other employees that after today we get seven days in which we can wait to see if their votes will come in. And we just kind of mailed them out to a bunch of houses in the area. They can be hand dated just because we're expecting them to be honest. And their signature can be a picture of Mickey Mouse. Would you consider that to be a real election?

[Alex Berenson]

What I consider to be a real election, again, that hypothetical. I mean, obviously I know what you're saying. You're confusing the procedure that let's say California is using, which is stupid and bad, with the fundamental underlying right to vote.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm asking you a question so I can get to there. Is it a legitimate election when you can receive a ballot seven days later, hand dated, it's got a picture of Mickey Mouse as a signature and it requires two independent adjudicators to disqualify with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Is that a real election? And don't forget we've mailed hundreds of thousands of ballots to random homeless shelters and various NGOs.

[Alex Berenson]

It's not the best procedure. But I don't.

[Tim Pool]

Come on. It's not an election. No American thinks the election means we sent 185 belts to a homeless shelter where Nithya Rahman gave $600,000 to listen. And they can draw Mickey Mouse as their signature.

[Alex Berenson]

The New York Times. Okay. You know, I used to work there a long time ago. They would not piss on me if I was on fire. Okay. Truth. And like if the whole building blew up, they would not rehire me. Okay. So I'm not saying this as like a friend of the New York Times. They hate me. They wrote an editorial saying how bad California's procedures were a week ago. Right. Everyone agrees about this, but it doesn't mean. But you're. You're deflecting from my.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not. Which is who getting vote. I'm getting there because I'm laying out the problems we have that lead us to the question of enfranchisement. So let's start now understanding we have a system where ballots are sent to every address. Doesn't matter if you wanted one or not. This means homeless shelters get hundreds. Signatures can be a doodle, which is unverifiable, and they can be hand dated. And when a hand dated ballot is delivered, it's not supposed to count. But only two independent officials who can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it came after the election day can disqualify it. We ask then, what is the majority of people voting this way? And should they be allowed to do this? So the beginning of the question of enfranchisement is not women can't vote. It's you can't vote in this way. That's phase one.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay?

[Tim Pool]

We then have to ask ourselves, let's say we clean everything up and we then get to, there is no more universal mail in voting. There are no late ballots. Watson, VRNC we're fingers crossed it's going to be ruled on tomorrow. Let's say next year or 2028. Election Day is election Day. All ballots must be received. They cannot be mailed out. They have to be. So it's one. One day. But then we have people who are homeless walking down the street, and an NGO says, hey, hey, hey, I'll give you five bucks to go vote. And they say, okay. And now you are once again asking yourself the question of if is this country better when people who don't want to vote don't know who to vote for are enticed, coerced, or paid to vote?

[Alex Berenson]

So encouraging people to vote. Paying people to vote is not the same as encouraging people to vote. But here I would say that's why

[Tim Pool]

I didn't say that. But here, here's what offering money, coercing or otherwise.

[Alex Berenson]

I think the Republican Party should think a lot about this because there's been this notion on both sides that low, you know, what are called low propensity voters, people who don't vote very often.

[Brett Dasovic]

Right.

[Alex Berenson]

They might vote in a presidential election and nothing el. Are gonna go Democratic. Right? Turns out that that's not really true.

[Tim Pool]

I don't care about the Republican Party. I mean, I can't function.

[Alex Berenson]

So I think we should be encouraging everybody to vote.

[Tim Pool]

So. So the analogy that's often used is your plane is in the air and the, you know, the pilot has a stroke and dies, and the co pilot says, I'm gonna take the plane. I'll land it. And everyone's, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're in a vote and figure out who should fly this plane.

[Carter Banks]

That's.

[Alex Berenson]

This, That's. That has nothing to do with a Democratic election for the President of the United States.

[Tim Pool]

Why not?

[Alex Berenson]

Because someone's been trained to fly the plane in case the pilot dies.

[Phil Labonte]

Who gets trained to be the president?

[Alex Berenson]

What?

[Phil Labonte]

Who gets trained?

[Alex Berenson]

No one. That's why the analogy does not hold.

[Tim Pool]

I disagree. I think the point would be if you had a Pilot, trained to fly, and you had a four star general with decades of military experience, public service, charismatic. And the vote was only held by a certain subset of learned individuals who have active participation in the country. And this could be abroad, this could be almost everybody. They're going to say the guy trained for governance and military leadership should be the president. Instead, Donald Trump is president because he's charismatic. Now, I like Donald Trump, he's far from perfect. And if I had a choice of a president that I could choose from literally anybody, it's not gonna be Donald Trump. But in the system that we have, because people who don't know anything about anything vote, Donald Trump is the best we can get. I do consider him to be a net positive, especially nuking usaid. Hillary Clinton is miserable and the system we have in place because everyone gets to vote. Instead of being honest. Politicians lie about everything because they want to maximize the lowest common denominator. I would love it if what I've proposed is in order to vote, you have to sign up for selective service. So men and women, when you turn 18, you go to the DMV, you fill out, you get your license and you check the box. I would like to vote and be eligible for the draft. Then they say you're a voter. I think that would solve 20, 30% of the problem overnight. Low propensity, ignorant voters who are manipulated, coerced or otherwise, who don't know who they're voting for and don't know why, will stop voting. And you will then have again. A plane is being flown, the pilot has a stroke, the co pilot says, I should take over. I am trained to do this. And then a guy stands up, slicks his hair back and says, look at me, huh? I'm a better pilot. Let's go. You know me, I'm funny. Everybody loves it. And they go, yeah, we want that guy. He's funnier. So in this country there are people who have the experience to be president. And certainly when Donald Trump ran, he did not have experience. I would argue that the structure of this country was to destruction. Like Hillary Clinton and the Republican administration, the uniparty were destructive to this country and that's why Trump wins. I don't think you even get to that point if you just stop universal enfranchisement. If you say there are some criteria by which you are allowed to vote,

[Alex Berenson]

you, you want a more elite selection when you don't like the current elites running the country that Donald Trump ran

[Brett Dasovic]

against, they're agreed, they're elites that are elected out of universal enfranchisement.

[Tim Pool]

They are. They're elite because USAID was funneling money to various NGOs, propping up people who did not work, funding basically everybody in, like Fairfax and Loudoun, who have exorbitant salaries because they're lawyers or they work for NGOs because USAID gives them money for BS reasons. Lee Zeldin found a nonprofit was formed for after one month, was given $7 billion. So these people are elites because they trick stupid people to vote for them. They cheat these systems through ridiculous codification. Then once they get in government, they cement themselves as a uniparty machine.

[Alex Berenson]

In what world do you think the guys running Pfizer and ExxonMobil and OpenAI and Goldman Sachs are not going to find their way into this system? That you're.

[Tim Pool]

Of course they will. But the criteria by which someone gets to vote that I'm describing is not that you're wealthy. I'm saying that if you eliminate low propensity, ignorant and easily manipulated voters and universal mail in voting, it becomes increasingly more difficult. So the reason why, like our audience, for instance, you can't lie to them, it just. It's not going to work. If I say something wrong, the chat blows up and they say, tim's wrong about this, you're wrong, and they go off. But if you go look at these liberal channels and these liberal podcasts. Oh, come on. Again, as it pertains to Covid, you know exactly what they were doing. Marching like lemmings off a cliff.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Tim Pool]

So when you have lemmings who are willing to march off a cliff because they hate, and that's all that matters to them, criminals and the corrupt will exploit that against the good. But here's the thing. On the right, you have disparate factions that are constantly fighting. The libertarians have turned on Trump. They're mad over the war. You've got the, I guess America first anti Israel faction also angry. And what made up the mega coalition has broken.

[Alex Berenson]

Maha is increasingly angry with them too.

[Tim Pool]

Absolutely. So Maha is out. They're all fractured. But none of these people like the Democratic Party, which is consolidated, even when what they say makes no sense. And I'll give you an example of a tweet that I put out the other day. I tweeted medical assistance and death is a good thing. It's the white privilege that's the problem. We need to prioritize LGBTQIA plus people and black and brown bodies for maid. In fact, white people shouldn't be Allowed to have this until. The point I'm making with that is. The insinuation is horrifying. But the left doesn't apply that way. When it comes to medical assistance and death. The overall majority of people who get it are white, despite the fact it's a medical treatment that should be given to the marginalized. But you're never going to see a liberal advocate for medically assisting suicides of black people. They won't do it. The point being, these are easily manipulated people who have no. You know, let me give you a better example. I agreed with Hasan piker. He criticized Mr. Beast because not so much Mr. Beast, but America. Mr. Beast paid for a bunch of cataract surgeries. 10 grand. And he said, why do we have to have a game show help people get a simple procedure to restore their vision? No, it's not like it's the craziest cure. They can literally go in and remove the cataract. I made a video saying, Hasan's correct, 100%. It is insane that in this country we have people who are blind only because they have no access to this service. And a game show had to do it. In that critique I mentioned, I do not support the military industrial complex dumping money into Congress. So then they send weapons to all these foreign countries. Why are we giving Ukraine $200 billion? Hassan, he reacted to my reaction, mocking me. So first. So he agreed. The military industrial complex. So basically what happened was he says in his video, the military industrial complex is bad. Funding all these wars. I reacted to him saying, I agree with Hasan. The military industrial complex is bad. Ukraine's a great example. He then laughed at me saying, yo, bro, literally thinks we shouldn't support Ukraine because these people don't have any actual policy positions or vision. It's literally, are you in or are you out? And what that leads to is politicians like Adam Schiff. It leads to politicians like Zoran Mamdani. They're lying about everything. Their stated goal is destruction. But stupid people vote for them because stupid people are angry.

[Brett Dasovic]

Can I ask you a question? So it seems like from what your. Your whole description earlier about what happened to you is just. It sounds like a massive overreach on the behalf of social media companies, but as well as the government, right?

[Alex Berenson]

Yes, absolute.

[Brett Dasovic]

So I guess the question is, like, in lieu of, like, what happened to you as an individual, shouldn't it give us pause, perhaps, that somebody would have such an egregious. Now, to be fair, this lady did not make that statement herself specifically, but at the Very least, she hasn't withdrawn her support from this organization. Should it not give us pause that somebody with such an egregious claim as the eradication of Western civilization would be allowed anywhere near power in a country that's already proven that even those lessons, radical than she is, have the capability of ruining someone's life?

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, I just think it's a chance.

[Brett Dasovic]

I get what.

[Alex Berenson]

I get what you think as, like,

[Brett Dasovic]

I get what you're saying about. I get what you're saying about kind of hands off and it's. It's scary to do that.

[Alex Berenson]

But yes, I mean, I think it's. I. I'm fundamentally. I mean, like, I'm like the last person like this. I'm. I'm a constitutionalist. I'm a pro.

[Tim Pool]

I don't think so.

[Alex Berenson]

I think I want to believe in the genius of this country. I don't think you said the people who created it.

[Tim Pool]

I don't think that's true.

[Alex Berenson]

You don't think that's what I am or you don't think I'm the last?

[Tim Pool]

Absolutely not.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay, what am I?

[Tim Pool]

Let's play the game I play with everybody. Do you believe in the First Amendment?

[Alex Berenson]

Of course.

[Tim Pool]

Do you believe the Founding Fathers vision of the First Amendment is correct and you want to adhere to it?

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, this is a trap question.

[Tim Pool]

Of course it is.

[Alex Berenson]

I'll just say yes.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. Because the Founding Fathers thought that blasphemy should be illegal, and it was. I think we currently, we do have blasphemy laws in the books. And I think the last SCOTUS ruling was actually like 1956. So if you want to adhere to the Constitution the way it was intended, we should arrest anyone who says Christ is not king. Yeah, but as they did, they did this.

[Alex Berenson]

They also said that they. Well, I don't know. Did they? Actually, the federal government arrested people who said Christ is not king.

[Tim Pool]

Well, there was one instance where a man said, not. Not literally Christ is not king, but he. This was a famous case in Massachusetts and I think it was like 1828. I always get the date wrong. Where it was up. It went to the Massachusetts Supreme Court where he said something to the effect of, Christ is not our Lord and Savior. He was a universalist or something. And they arrested him and he went to jail for it.

[Alex Berenson]

So we also had slaves. Right.

[Tim Pool]

But we amended the Constitution.

[Alex Berenson]

We amended the Constitution.

[Tim Pool]

We did not amend the Constitution as it pertains to the First Amendment.

[Alex Berenson]

No. But the Constitution is still a living document. Okay. So I Mean that I can believe in its principles and believe that it's a living document.

[Tim Pool]

But you don't believe in its principles.

[Alex Berenson]

I do believe in its principles. I don't believe.

[Tim Pool]

And you should. And blasphemy should be illegal. That was a founding principle of the First Amendment. They. The purpose.

[Alex Berenson]

I'm sort of taking your word on this one. And you did quote this case to me.

[Tim Pool]

But I. Blasphemy was illegal in this country for a long time.

[Alex Berenson]

You know that Congress can't establish any religion. Okay. No establishment of religion.

[Tim Pool]

And the purpose was to avoid internecine conflict.

[Carter Banks]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

You know George Carlin got arrested for swearing, right?

[Alex Berenson]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

Where's the First Amendment?

[Brett Dasovic]

There.

[Alex Berenson]

But that. Okay, that was a mistake and it's been rectified. You can swear.

[Tim Pool]

Point is, you couldn't swear at any point before.

[Alex Berenson]

That's right. It's a living document. We Standards have changed.

[Tim Pool]

So you don't care about the Constitution. You care about your moral framework applied using the Constitution to back your.

[Alex Berenson]

No other way around. I believe about the. I believe.

[Tim Pool]

So hate speech should be illegal. No, but hold on. Democrats think hate speech is not protected speech.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay. I don't.

[Tim Pool]

Their view of the Constitution, right or wrong.

[Alex Berenson]

That is incorrect. That view.

[Tim Pool]

Well, they say you're incorrect. Well, okay, how about this?

[Alex Berenson]

The Founding Fathers, under the framework that the Constitution provides, if you.

[Tim Pool]

If you believe in the. In the. As an originalist in the Constitution, blasphemy should be illegal.

[Alex Berenson]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

If you want that changed, you should amend the Constitution.

[Alex Berenson]

Right. So I'm not like, I'm not a textualist in the constitution's words from 17, you know.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, that's a. You said it was a living document. That's textualism. No, originalism is what the intent was. Textualism is what it reads as.

[Alex Berenson]

Fair enough. You're correct.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, so. So you're a textualist in that. However, the language applies today by our understanding of the words should be applied today.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes. So I would say that's correct.

[Tim Pool]

So when they change the definition of man or woman, it fundamentally changes the 19th Amendment.

[Carter Banks]

That's cool. It was John Adams that criticized these blasphemy laws and got them. Got the. The spurs kicked on to get them changed. Yeah, but they were ar.

[Tim Pool]

But it didn't happen.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah, but he spoke it.

[Tim Pool]

Even. Even sedition was illegal. And it was like, what was it? Was it Adams. Was it Adams who was arresting people for sedition? And then Jefferson was like, I'm putting ace.

[Carter Banks]

But it has changed. I mean, it took 100200 years.

[Tim Pool]

But you, like, there was literally a period at the founding of the country where speaking out against America was a crime.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

My point is, I hear from so many people, they're like, look, I believe in the Constitution. Nobody does. No one actually believes in the Constitution. They believe in their moral interpretation of what the Constitution provides for them. And that's why liberals say hate speech is not protected under the First Amendment. And the right says it is because it's a different moral worldview. They're both claiming the Constitution belongs to them. The Founding Fathers disagree with everybody. Like gun rights, for instance. Do you believe in the Second Amendment?

[Alex Berenson]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

So do you think that Virginia has a right to ban guns?

[Alex Berenson]

No.

[Tim Pool]

The Founding Fathers did. The federal Constitution only applied to the federal government at the time. And states under the 9th and 10th were allowed to ban guns if they wanted to. And in fact, they did. And it wasn't until the 80s. This is fascinating. If you take a look into shall issue or may issue permitting. In the. Before the 80s, states did not have to grant you the right to keep and bear arms. It was culturally normative that people had guns and the state wouldn't arrest you for it. But it was actually quite difficult in many circumstances to get permits. And only recently did you know that the right to keep a gun on your person only exists in the United states as of 2010, I did not. Only 16 years, in fact, we even have national constitutional carry yet. So the Second Amendment doesn't even apply the idea that the federal Constitution applies to this country. The right to keep and bear arms is not even correct. McDonald, what is it? McDonald v. No, no, that was McDonald v. Chicago. So it was D.C. versus Heller, where they said, the individual right to keep and bear arms extends, I think, to private ownership. Like you are allowed to have guns in your house. And then McDonald v. Chicago was actually, you can carry them around.

[Alex Berenson]

It's been steadily extended. Yes.

[Tim Pool]

So here's the point. If we believe the Second Amendment was intended to say, the federal Constitution is supreme, you cannot ban people from having guns, then I could carry a gun across state lines whenever I wanted to. But you can't. You'll go to jail. You go to prison for that right. So the federal Constitution is still not even being upheld by any party or this country. And only in the last 16 years do we start to see the emergence of constitutional carrying again.

[Alex Berenson]

There is a tension in the United States under the Constitution between federal and state law. And that's as it should be.

[Tim Pool]

Well, that's why I once Again, challenge this notion that there is a constitution that people adhere to. Because if you believe the federal constitution is supreme, there's. How is there even a question that I would go to prison if I'm in. If you're in Pennsylvania and you cross the bridge on accident with your handgun, you are going to prison for four years. And it's happened, it happened to. There was an old lady and she was driving to Atlantic City. She was a permanent, she had permanent carry in Pennsylvania. She's driving the 40 minute drive to Atlantic City when she gets pulled over for like some innocuous reason, being a good citizen. When the cop asks her if she has any weapons on her, she says, yes, I have my, my revolver on me and I have my permit for it. And he goes, okay, ma', am, step out of the vehicle. And he's like, can you show me the weapon? He's like, I'm take it from you. Is that okay? Put your hand behind her back. You're going to prison. This is a felony. And she had just crossed the bridge into Jersey and was like, I have a permit. He goes, not in Jersey you don't. The only reason she got off, she had a good lawyer. And there was a case in New Jersey where some athlete was caught with a gun and they cut him a sweetheart deal cuz he was famous. So they said, we're gonna make a big stink about this cuz you're going after a little old lady when you let this football player go. So they cut a deal and said, never come back. But there are many instances where people cross that bridge on accident and they're in prison right now. I know a dude who was from new, who was from California, he was driving to New York and he was driving through Illinois and he had like three or four long guns in his trunk. He exits the federal highway to get gas and a cop walks up and says, I'm searching your vehicle, finds the guns.

[Alex Berenson]

What was the probable cause on that?

[Tim Pool]

I don't know, the fault, the case. But the dude ended up having to live in Illinois for the rest of his life. He got criminally charged for illegal transport of firearms on the federal highway. They won't pull you over. He had to get gas. Now he's in Illinois and they said, these guns, you can't. I think he had a couple long guns and some handguns and they said, felony, you're under arrest. And what was supposed to be a move from California to New York turned into a 20 year sentence in Illinois. So he didn't Go to prison for 20 years. He went for like six or seven. And then when he got out, he was on probation and couldn't leave the state. And so he was like, I never intended to stay in Illinois. He was a black dude. And he was like, they're all racist. That's what happened. And I'm like, well, yeah, maybe. But anyway, yeah, there's no Constitution.

[Alex Berenson]

Like, but that is not that. That's a cynical argument and it's not true. It's not a perfect document.

[Tim Pool]

Well, hold on, hold on.

[Alex Berenson]

And we can argue about details, and we can, but it provides a good framework for this country.

[Tim Pool]

Well, let's, let's, let's, let's parse the semantics hyperbolically. I would say, of course, as a Constitution, we cite it all the time. I am saying the message and the rights guaranteed by the Constitution do not functionally exist in the United States. They are only a basis by which people try to assert political authority over others. That's it. That's why you get a conservative Supreme Court and they fundamentally change the understanding of the law. That's it. Whoever has the power can enforce it.

[Alex Berenson]

Well, I. Look, I gotta really hope you're wrong because I am bringing this case in the Second Circuit, New York. Okay. It's a liberal circuit. And basically the law that I'm saying was violated in my case is a federal civil rights law. Okay. And what I'm saying is unvaccinated people, including me during COVID were denied the right to speak and listen. I was denied the right to speak to them. They were denied the right to listen to me. That was because of this federal slash Pfizer conspiracy. And there should be an action that I can take against that. Okay. My First Amendment rights were violated. The Second Circuit, the Second Circuit has extended this in a lot of directions. They actually said that this clause, which called 1985 extended to Arab and Muslim suspected terrorists after 9 11. James Lawrence and I are arguing that the unvaccinated, the COVID unvaccinated, were a sort of deeply disliked class in 2020 and 2021. And in fact, you know, in New York City, you couldn't go into restaurants and various things if you were not vaccinated. And so. And so we deserve protection. So, okay, so obviously, obviously, the Second Circuit is a liberal circuit. Liberals generally don't like this argument.

[Tim Pool]

Yep.

[Alex Berenson]

So we are hoping that for once they actually take a principled stand.

[Tim Pool]

So let me ask you then, can you explain to the audience the purpose of venue selection?

[Alex Berenson]

I don't I can't. I can't venue select. I.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no, no. I didn't ask you if you could ask. Can you explain the purpose of venue selection?

[Alex Berenson]

It's to find a judge who was appointed by somebody you think will be more favorable to you.

[Tim Pool]

So what actually is happening is you are bending the knee before, Before a political magistrate saying, please, please agree with me. And not based on the merits, based on whether you are the right, whether you're willing to bestow upon me your.

[Alex Berenson]

I'm asking them.

[Tim Pool]

Venue selection principled about it. No, you're not.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes, I am.

[Tim Pool]

Venue selection exists because every lawyer knows you're really just asking the judge to grant you permission. Otherwise, if you had the option, you would not be bringing this case in a liberal court. No, you'd go to West Virginia.

[Alex Berenson]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

But you go to Wyoming.

[Alex Berenson]

But I.

[Tim Pool]

Why? Why would you do that? Because you know they'll politically agree with you and grant you.

[Alex Berenson]

Ironically, you're. You're actually wrong. And here's why. And in this case, you are wrong. Most circuits, most procedurally, maybe it's more basic than that. This law, 1985, was passed after Reconstruction or during Reconstruction. Okay. Many circuits, including the Fifth, which is the most conservative? Right. Texas, Alabama, Louisiana. I think it's Texas, maybe Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas and Louisiana. Okay. The fifth says basically 1985 only applies to black people. Only black people can have its protections. The second, because New York is liberal, has extended in a lot of directions same sex couples, you know, disabled people. So. So if I were bringing it in a conservative circuit, if they were going to follow their precedent at all, they'd have to toss it immediately. It's because I'm in the second that I have.

[Tim Pool]

So the procedural issue here is that a network of precedents are created specifically in this circuit, and you are challenging the base, the foundational stone that if they rule against you could disrupt the other plans they have. The point, ultimately, is this. No one is going to court on the merits. That's a lie we tell ourselves.

[Alex Berenson]

It's a lie I'm telling myself right

[Tim Pool]

now, indeed, because I have been involved in more than enough lawsuits to understand that the first thing the lawyers tell you is we gotta find the right venue. Why? Because we're looking for a judge who agrees with us morally and politically. And then it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. In fact, I was dealing with a copyright lawsuit and I was explicitly told, listen, if we bring this suit in California, where the record labels are, you lose in two Seconds. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. They are there in the pocket of the major labels, and they're not gonna threaten their economy for some guy from West Virginia. If you sue in West Virginia, the inverse is true. The conservative people here are gonna be like, tim Pool brings money to the state. We will give him whatever he wants. That's the nature of politics. And I think the idea that it operates otherwise is just to make regular people feel like we have a just system.

[Alex Berenson]

I can only tell you. And again, I had a venue problem in Baronson v. Twitter. Okay. Brought it in the Federal Circuit, the Northern District of California. The judge was a Clinton appointee, but he was a good, honest guy. He was an old judge, a senior, you know, emeritus, and he didn't care about doing anything except trying to, like, look at the case and realize that I had a case against Twitter. So maybe, maybe I'm biased because that happened.

[Tim Pool]

But. But again, what's being stated here is that I asked a man of principle, a man who thought his job was. Was right. And just the issue that we're going, we can go all the way back to Dariel Darieliza. Now, Chevalier, what do you think she would do if she was on a judge's panel?

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah, I would trust as far as I could throw her. Yes.

[Tim Pool]

Well, you'd go in before her and say, here's the case. And she'll go, uh huh, Contempt. Lock him up. And she's gonna be like, welcome to my court, baby. Because we see this stuff happening. Look at Judge Dugan, who let a criminal escape. The issue ultimately is this as we get. We'll get into the next story.

[Carter Banks]

I'll say that all judges are unethical or to claim that none of them are ethical.

[Tim Pool]

Well, let me finish my point so you can understand. If you go back to the 90s, you'll find that the political leanings of Democrats and Republicans are almost identical. There were a few wedge issues they disagreed on, like how much taxes we should have progressively, and what are the limits on abortion. But when you look at Pew's research, which has famously been analyzed a million and one times ad nauseam, you can see that the peaks for each party overlap and they're only slightly different. Today you can see left and right are completely divergent. So the simple question is this. If a person came into your courtroom who was in a lawsuit and the goal of winning the lawsuit was to sterilize and castrate a bunch of little boys, are you going to allow that person to do it as a judge. I tell you this, a conservative judge is going to be like, it's not happening. To be fair, a lot of conservative judges will be like, I am constrained by the law because I'm a man of principle and they let the left do whatever they want. I'd imagine if you were a judge, you'd say it's unfortunate that you have the legal right to sterilize and castrate children, but I will let you do it because I see that as your moral worldview. In the instance of Darieliza, we have a more strong moral stance in. If someone's explicit goal is to kill or destroy my country, my people and the things that I've supported, we will not allow them to take office. Your position is they're voted for, so they should be allowed to do it.

[Brett Dasovic]

Like, I get it because I'm more wishy washy in a lot of ways as well. But I guess the idea is, like

[Alex Berenson]

you said, I don't think it's wishy washy.

[Brett Dasovic]

No, I'm saying for me specifically, it's like I'm not a. I don't have a lot of hardline stances on a lot of things. But for me specifically, in this. You mentioned you want. You consider yourself a constitutionalist. I don't. She see, you know, assuming that she believes what was said in that statement. She hasn't disavowed it. She doesn't believe in the Constitution and she believes that as an enemy of the United States or somebody who wants to end Western civilization, that she would theoretically have a problem with the Constitution.

[Tim Pool]

Why would we.

[Carter Banks]

Doesn't mean she agrees with it.

[Tim Pool]

She doesn't agree with it. She thinks she, she, she described the United States as evil white patriarchal settler colonialism that needs to be destroyed. If she said yes, it's an opinion to be. The question is, does she believe in the Constitution? When she calls it evil settler colonialism? The answer is no, she does not.

[Carter Banks]

I mean, that's a conflation of ideas. Just.

[Tim Pool]

No, it's not.

[Carter Banks]

What's evil? I mean, America has become a military grotesque form in a lot of ways.

[Tim Pool]

Now you're arguing something totally different.

[Carter Banks]

Well, it's not the same United States. You're arguing for constitutionalism. She's arguing that the bureaucracy is too big and it's controlling the world.

[Tim Pool]

No, she's not.

[Brett Dasovic]

She's.

[Carter Banks]

She argued Palestine ball, that.

[Tim Pool]

She argued that white Europeans coming here was an explicit evil that needs to be stopped.

[Carter Banks]

You're going to need to pull up exactly what she said because we started this clip off with a conflation of a company she's connected to making a claim. And then we start talking as if she's the one saying it.

[Tim Pool]

She's the founder of cuad who issued this?

[Carter Banks]

Whatever. You got a lot of employees, you know that if they go out in public and say stuff, it does not reflect on you.

[Tim Pool]

If the Tim Cast corporation issues a press release, it's approved by me.

[Carter Banks]

If one of the 10 founders in and for people founded that company that made a statement, is she even involved with them?

[Phil Labonte]

Look, I got question for context. The thing she's called for. She's called for abolishing police, prisons and borders. She clarified her position on defunding the police by writing that her vision means ending police, full stop. No more police that ever, ever at all. She retweeted, literally abolish the the border. All deportation is wrong. She called the United States a fucking disgrace, referred to the US as occupied Native American land and joked about wiping her dirty hands on American folks flag. She wrote favor favorably about communism, wrote seize the means of production, called for nationalizing utilities, pharmaceutical companies and seizing all properties from landlords. Wrote that pyromania associated with anarchy and anarchism is very intriguing to me. She called Joe Biden a rapist and a war criminal and said she wouldn't vote for him. She said f. Kamala Harris and criticized Bernie Sanders and AOC for being too pro Israel. And she wrote that black and Arab men fetishize ugly colonizer women.

[Carter Banks]

You said that? She said to steal all land from all landlords.

[Phil Labonte]

She said. She said. Let me, let me make sure that I'm actually saying it correctly. All prop. Seizing all properties from landlords.

[Carter Banks]

What was her claim? What did she say?

[Phil Labonte]

Because she said she called for the seizing of all properties from landlords.

[Carter Banks]

That's what was the statement she called for.

[Phil Labonte]

That's the statement. I'm looking at it, dude. Sake.

[Tim Pool]

Here's what we can do. Yes, Ian, you're looking for specific quotes and we're giving you a broad overview of our political organization other conversation, what we've been having with a handful of quotes. Now if you take issue with like the executive statements, the literal statement, out of context quotes.

[Carter Banks]

I want a context indeed.

[Tim Pool]

So right now, if you are unprepared to have that debate, instead of saying I'm angry and don't believe you, you can leave.

[Carter Banks]

Show me the context.

[Tim Pool]

And my point is when, when you pull up like if a journalist reads the book or like I read the manifesto right from the Montreal shooter. And I can tell you that he did not hate women. He actually loved women, but he hated modern society, capitalism, hypergamy. You would say, what did he say specifically? And I'd say, I am paraphrasing from reading 104 pages. If you want his quotes, go find him or tell me you don't trust me.

[Carter Banks]

Don't bring up his quotes if you don't have them. You can talk from memory if you want. Phil was reading and that's what he

[Tim Pool]

did and you're mad about it. My point is I want more info.

[Carter Banks]

I mean, great.

[Tim Pool]

Indeed. It is not an argument to say, oh, you found a list of things she said. I want you to prove it more than you already did. Cuz I don't know, it's like, okay, you can go in the other room and you can look it up and then come back with those quotes and we'll talk about it. But right now, telling Phil that the work he did pulling quotes and paraphrasing is not adequate is not an argument.

[Carter Banks]

That's true. I mean, I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to denounce the value of what you brought up. I want to know more, bro.

[Tim Pool]

She has a tweet where she said my hands were dirty. I know napkins. So I turned around and wiped my hands on the flag.

[Carter Banks]

It's not illegal to run for office and get into for any of that stuff. You said you can get elected.

[Tim Pool]

Pretty sure desecration of the American flag could be you can poop. Like an ethics violation or something.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, yeah, possibly is an ethic. Ethics violation.

[Tim Pool]

Guys, we're ragged on the left so much. I think we got a rag on the right. So I'm going to do this. We've got this from the Babylon be that I want to play for you guys. They wrote, we asked AI to simulate if the US had a second civil war. And I'm going to play this video for you guys.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

It was late 2026 and political conflict was coming to a head. The right was not giving any ground and the left decided it was time to take action.

[Tim Pool]

We had to do something. The Republicans were using every trick in

[Carter Banks]

the book, mainly voting to take over our country.

[Tim Pool]

It was finally time for war.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

The left began to quickly make preparations to take the country by force.

[Tim Pool]

It's not easy to start a war. It involves a lot of talking on the phone, which gives many of us US anxiety.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

An initial target was settled on a lazy suburb that served as a symbol of the bourgeoisie and capitalism. But this small neighborhood was not caught by surprise.

[Carter Banks]

Doreen's son goes to one of those fruity colleges on the west coast and

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

we got word from him war was coming. The invading army descended on the small neighborhood, but the attack did not go as planned.

[Alex Berenson]

In the city, we're used to being able to burn down a target and no one does anything.

[Tim Pool]

I guess it's different in the suburbs though.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

The suburbanites had an ace up their sleeves. Firearms.

[Tim Pool]

One of the big issues is how

[Alex Berenson]

we hate guns, but the right loves them.

[Tim Pool]

I guess none of us considered how

[Alex Berenson]

big a disadvantage that would put us in a civil war.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

A single warning shot was fired, causing half the invading force to have a panic attack. The rest fled for their lives. The second American Civil War was over. Everyone said I was crazy owning six

[Carter Banks]

AR15s, and I guess they had a

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

point since we had a full civil war and I barely needed the one. The left signed a statement of unconditional surrender. The right was now fully in control of the country.

[Tim Pool]

As part of the surrender, we technically own California and we're seeing if it's possible to just push it off into the sea.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

Many of the losing combatants fled to the far north. Starvation was rampant among them from lack of access to doordash. Still, not everyone saw what happened as a total loss for the left.

[Tim Pool]

I think we won by showing we will stand up to Republicans.

[Carter Banks]

But haven't you been exiled to Canada?

[Tim Pool]

It's great, I love it here. Gavin Newsom was soon eaten by a moose.

[Phil Labonte]

Cringe Boomer Slop.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, I call. Yeah, right. Like I understand the jokes, but yeah, Cringe Boomer slop is the perfect example. The first question is how many left wingers have been killed by conservatives?

[Phil Labonte]

I think, oh, is it zero?

[Tim Pool]

How many? How many right wing individuals have been killed, maimed or otherwise injured, attacked, terrorized.

[Phil Labonte]

Like three attacks on the President. Charlie Kirk, Aaron Danielson was killed.

[Tim Pool]

Danielson, just a Trump supporter walking down the street, got shot twice in the chest for by a leftist for no reason.

[Phil Labonte]

There are people that had gone to the that were intending on killing Supreme Court justices over the right.

[Tim Pool]

There was also the planned terror attack on UFC where they were going to launch drones and then shoot civilians fleeing. There was the, obviously the ICE terror facilities where cop got shot in the neck. There was the incident where the sniper shot into the van, shooting a couple of the migrants thinking they were federal agents. There was of course the attacks on all the Tesla facilities where a man showed up with a rifle and unloaded There was the guy in Spokane, Washington who showed up with a rifle, a ghost gun, and Molotov started firebombing an ICE facility and unloading. Fortunately, no one got shot.

[Phil Labonte]

This Babylon B Bull, Luigi Mangione.

[Tim Pool]

Luigi Mangione. And the perception of your run of the mill conservatives is like the left hates guns, even though the left is ardently pro gun. And they have the John Brown Gun Club, the Red Guard, just for some, name some examples. And they march around taking over blocks of their cities. There's the autonomous zone in Portland, there was for two years an autonomous zone, George Floyd Square, where a guy on a roof had a rifle on a, on a tripod aiming at people. And the Babylon Bee. And these run of the mill conservatives are sitting there being like, aren't we so smart? So I tell you this, my vision of what a second Civil war would look like, at least based on how they view it, is that far. Leftists would show up with a bunch of AR15s and switches, like Glocks with switches, and they instantly take over the small suburb town, seize the guns from the sleepy suburbanites who have them and then kill a bunch of people who resisted. And you will get a conflict. Then the Republicans are gonna go now, now everybody, there's not much we can do. I mean, this is a local matter, so the federal government's not going to get involved. And then the Democrats in the state where it happens, let's say it's Illinois, are going to be like on tv. But these are peaceful protesters. And don't you need to understand, and

[Brett Dasovic]

not just that if one of them does manage to get arrested, somebody running for president for the Democrats will put in their bio about how you can donate to the, to the fund to get them out.

[Tim Pool]

Yep. It's fascinating to me that we have had for nearly a decade left wing extremism to a psychotic degree. And conservatives to this day, not all of them, but many of them, maintain the left are weak, can't fight, have no guns. And I'm like, remember when the leftists unloaded 300 rounds into the SUV in Portland? Yeah, yeah. Was it? No. Seattle, sorry. And they're like, I didn't know that happened. Remember when they firebombed the White House? They did. Remember when they shot Aaron Danielson twice in the chest and killed him simply walking down the street with, with the Trump gear on.

[Brett Dasovic]

I think there's also like a fundamental, like, gap between people who think of like the pink haired liberal and the militant leftist, which are different things. And they're kind of conflating the two, which is something you should do to your own detriment.

[Carter Banks]

There's also constitutionalists and Trump lovers, like MAGA dudes. Those are the right. You know, like, it's not the same.

[Alex Berenson]

It's not a monolith.

[Tim Pool]

My question is this. How do we coexist with this Chevalier in Congress?

[Carter Banks]

This girl, that's her name.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. She's gonna go to Congress in. In January 3rd. Winning the primary is effectively winning because it's a Democrat district. So how do we in this country coexist with. With. With enemies?

[Carter Banks]

Better ideas usually is my tactic. Better ideas. Putting their ideas on blast and debating them.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so. So let's try this. A guy outside. Let's say there's a black outside screaming, all white people must die. The next white man I see, I will kill. Do you. Are you going to have an idea to change his mind perhaps?

[Carter Banks]

No, that would be disturbing the peace. He'd get arrested. No, you're street corner screaming that people need to die, should be arrested by the cops.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so, so, so what do you think happens when his cops show up?

[Carter Banks]

They will arrest him for disturbing the people. He's armed by the king right now. Is this my world?

[Tim Pool]

I'm asking you what you think will happen.

[Carter Banks]

I think he will be arrested and detained for.

[Tim Pool]

He's going to lay his gun down and say, up. You got me?

[Carter Banks]

Oh, he's got a gun and he's screaming. He's going to kill people. The people probably have guns pointed at him and hopefully escalate.

[Tim Pool]

I thought you had ideas that could stop that.

[Carter Banks]

You asked me about this girl in Congress.

[Tim Pool]

How. I said, how do we coexist with enemies? You said, better ideas.

[Carter Banks]

You said the girl's name. How do we coexist with this girl and people like this?

[Tim Pool]

And then after that, I said, how do you coexist with your enemies? And you said, better ideas.

[Carter Banks]

Now you're asking how I coexist with.

[Tim Pool]

I changed the goalposts before you interjected.

[Carter Banks]

I intentioned her ideas with the girl in Congress on the House floor if necessary.

[Tim Pool]

Okay.

[Carter Banks]

You said, now there's a guy on the street corner.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so let's slow down. I said, how do you exist with someone like Chevalier? You didn't say anything. I then said, hold on. No, you didn't. I then play the tape, brother.

[Carter Banks]

Yes, I did. I was talking about her. I'm not talking about the crazy gunman there. You guys all heard that? Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Help me out here.

[Carter Banks]

No, I think you did say that

[Tim Pool]

I mean, let me try this again. In the order of operations. I said, how do you exist with Chevalier? You said nothing.

[Carter Banks]

That's not true.

[Tim Pool]

I said, then will you stop, let me finish.

[Carter Banks]

Okay, you point. What do you remember?

[Tim Pool]

I said, how do you coexist with someone like Chevalier? I was then asked what that meant. I said, how do we coexist with our enemies? And you said, better ideas. And then I said, okay, so let's say there's a guy outside, let's say he's a black guy screaming, I'm gonna. I hate white people. They should all die. The next white person I see, I'm going to kill. Do you have ideas for that? What is going to happen?

[Carter Banks]

My point is serving the piece.

[Tim Pool]

You thought you were responding to the Chevalier question when I had already changed the point broadly to talk about enemies coexisting in a similar space.

[Phil Labonte]

Not saying he's saying that he what didn't move the goalpost.

[Carter Banks]

Similar but different questions back to back. And just like berating me for answering one of the two. Like, what do you want?

[Tim Pool]

Because, because yes, when I try. This is a. Like in your arguing semantics. Out of the question.

[Carter Banks]

Going telling people to debate an armed gunman. I'm telling you if there's a girl in Congress you disagree with, you debate her on the House floor.

[Tim Pool]

So there is a person in Congress saying, I'm going to vote to kill you. What do you do?

[Carter Banks]

That's hyperbolic, obviously.

[Tim Pool]

Now she's literally said she wants the destruction of your way of life. Are you going to change her mind?

[Carter Banks]

I understand the American empire concern. I understand that. I understand. Want to deconstruct the empire, but. So let him. I don't want it.

[Brett Dasovic]

But that's not what was said. It was eradicate.

[Carter Banks]

That's what that thing, that company she

[Brett Dasovic]

was involved with, the one that she was a founder. Yeah, I just, I understand what you're saying. That it's not a quote that came directly out of her mouth. I understand what you're saying by that,

[Tim Pool]

but that the reason I, the reason I brought up the question about a black guy screaming I'm going to kill a white person is to create a clear, flat moral picture. We're not having, in the context, we're not having a debate and we are in a physical conflict. And I'm not saying this in relation to Chevalier. I am saying in a literal circumstance and there is only one obvious answer. And the point is, again, see, I'm going to tell you, Ian homie, I

[Carter Banks]

am not work yourself Up. I am listening.

[Tim Pool]

I am not asking this question to trick you. What I am doing is I am laying out a scenario that leads us to more questions.

[Carter Banks]

Well, the. Ideally you, because we earlier doesn't get to the armed.

[Tim Pool]

And the issue is your concern is that because you are wrong, you are trying to semantically navigate around the question.

[Alex Berenson]

No, no, he's saying that you are conflating two things that really aren't the same at all.

[Tim Pool]

And you are, because I'm not. Because what I'm doing is here's a flat moral scenario in the extreme. What happens in this flat moral scenario? We agree now we're going to move backwards and broaden the moral scenario to include variables. This is a method of understanding in conversation. But when you interrupt me because you don't want to answer the question because you think it's a gotcha, you are just disrupting the point.

[Carter Banks]

That's not what I'm doing. I just thought, literally, I thought you were asking about Chevalier. That's why.

[Tim Pool]

And when I tried to explain it, you were wrong. You kept interrupting me saying you were right.

[Carter Banks]

Well, you changed it.

[Tim Pool]

And I told you I changed the goalpost.

[Carter Banks]

You had a different meaning. I didn't understand, okay?

[Tim Pool]

And I said literally after Chevalier, I made the point point to broaden them to, to do a flat hard moral scenario. You know why I did that? Because there's only one answer to an armed man screaming, I will kill you. The police aren't going to come up and say, sir, please, let's have a conversation. They're going to shoot him. That's it.

[Brett Dasovic]

We go without the hardline moral stance. Like what do you guys think? And I understand your point here, is that what do you think the odds are that somebody with political positions that extreme is open to the idea of being, of having her opinion changed on stuff as fundament mental as, like the Amer, as America as a country. Right? Like I understand the idea. You go to, you go to the House floor, whatever, to argue policy or to argue legislation. You, somebody wants to pass this law, somebody else doesn't, and then you go back and forth about it, you have a whole argument about whether that's effective anyways, all that. But when you get down to the brass tax and the person doesn't even believe that the country she's currently representing should exist as it stands today. How do you get anywhere with a person like that? And I'm not trying to make this a moral gotcha question, it's literally, I'm just saying, like, what are the odds that there's going to be any type of constructive dialogue.

[Tim Pool]

So to continue my moral framework as intended.

[Carter Banks]

He just said without getting it moralistic, right?

[Brett Dasovic]

Well, I was asking, I was asking you a question like, how do you think that, what do you think the odds are that you can make in.

[Carter Banks]

I don't play the odds. I'm Han Solo and this is why.

[Tim Pool]

And debate.

[Carter Banks]

If you haven't done it yet, you should, because it's not as hard as you think it is.

[Tim Pool]

The reason why I created a. I presented a moral framework as with an analogy was so that I could advance it to the next question. A man wants to kill you. He is armed. What happens? The police will come and try to stop him and he's intent on killing. It will result in conflict. Now, let's say the man is screams outside, holding up a sign saying all white people should be murdered. Nothing will change my mind. Your intention is, I need to figure out how to coexist with this guy. His intention is I will kill him the first chance I get. What happens in that scenario?

[Carter Banks]

Personally, I will avoid the guy.

[Tim Pool]

We have to live with him, right?

[Carter Banks]

It's like New York City. You know, I just walk on the other side of the street.

[Tim Pool]

Do you have to live with him though? Right?

[Phil Labonte]

That's racist.

[Carter Banks]

Maybe, yes. I don't have to like, share a bedroom with them. But, you know, I, I, I actually

[Tim Pool]

think that's what conservatives would largely do. And that's why we are in this position where someone like Aaron Danielson took two bolts to the chest. Because people like you are like, I'll just avoid those that you do. I think someone who's saying, I'm going to murder people should be arrested.

[Carter Banks]

What would you do?

[Tim Pool]

If I was in a field in a small town and it was my town, I'd probably get a posse together and I'd say, it's time to get this guy out of here.

[Carter Banks]

New York City, right?

[Tim Pool]

So I bet what we're talking about

[Carter Banks]

is, so what would you get a posse and go do what?

[Tim Pool]

Right? If we're talking small town, get a posse together or the local police and we say, this guy can't be here anymore. He's threatening us.

[Carter Banks]

So you get the cops to arrest

[Tim Pool]

him and we'd remove him. I wouldn't negotiate with him. I wouldn't let him take a seat in city council. I would say anything he says is a lie intended to destroy us as explicit, stated intentions. The problem we have right now is conservatives who are doing one of two things I'm going to ignore this and hope it goes away, which it hasn't for decades. And the others which are saying it is my intention to be principled and find understanding. And the other guy sitting there with a smile on his face being like what up? An idiot. I'll stab him the first chance I get. So choose to live with these people. But you know that 19 year old girl who was butchered in New York City by that roving gang, band of gangs. Or the dad who got shot and killed while carrying walking his daughter across the street. This is the world that we have gotten because of this idea of just let these people do what they want and ignore them.

[Carter Banks]

I see I am by people burying their heads in the sand. I think people should have YouTube channels.

[Tim Pool]

You wouldn't avoid the guy.

[Carter Banks]

What?

[Tim Pool]

So you shouldn't avoid the guy?

[Carter Banks]

Well, I wouldn't walk up to him and walk in his face if he's threatening to kill white people and looking at me. No, but eye contact cross the street.

[Tim Pool]

But would you, would you take action? I'm going to kill somebody.

[Carter Banks]

What?

[Tim Pool]

You take action to stop him. Right.

[Carter Banks]

If he was violently threatening people, you'd

[Tim Pool]

have to call the cops saying white people should be killed. I think we don't allow that. I think this, you know, we've talked about the Tweedledee Tweedledum death threats and this is the perfect example of weak men. And I am just tired of weak men. So a Tweedledee Tweedledum death threat would be. I say anti vaxxers should be Epstein. I'll try to keep it vague because I don't wanna actually have that quote. But let's say I said anti vaxxers deserve the death penalty instantly on the spot. Right. That's a protected statement, right? First Amendment, I'm allowed to say that. Then Ian points at you in front of a mob and says he's an anti vaxxer. Neither of us broke the law. But someone shoots you, should we? So I believe those two people should go to prison.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah. I mean that may be incitement like that.

[Tim Pool]

Maybe it's not legal. And so what's happened consistently is this happens all the time is the principled conservative judges say neither of them created an imminent threat so you can't charge them.

[Alex Berenson]

I think we're talking something that's very fact specific. Okay. And by the way, Charlie Kirk, who I'm looking at up there, who is a true American hero who died believing in free speech. Okay. It's the right that has made everything about his Death about nothing except what it's actually about. In other words, Charlie Kirk was shot, almost certainly by a guy who did it for his, you know, transgender girlfriend. Because he didn't like Charlie Kirk. Right.

[Phil Labonte]

Yep.

[Alex Berenson]

So why are we talking? Why have people on the right spent the last year talking about some weird conspiracy?

[Tim Pool]

Because they're idiots. They're retarded.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah. It's called the retard. Right. None of us are on that train.

[Alex Berenson]

I'm glad. I'm really glad to hear.

[Tim Pool]

My argument is advocating for death and destruction is not free speech. The idea that you can advocate for killing people, I think, is not free speech.

[Alex Berenson]

Are you. Okay, Let me give you an example.

[Tim Pool]

Do you think it should be allowed

[Alex Berenson]

specific people or, like, parasitic, you know, capitalist CEOs or whatever? Like, I'm allowed to say, I think that those people should die? I mean, as long as I'm not naming anybody specifically, I think that's a politically protected.

[Tim Pool]

There's a line, I suppose, but should die. What I mean to say is I don't think people should be allowed to say something like, someone needs to go kill them now.

[Alex Berenson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, again.

[Tim Pool]

And that's not. That's. That's free speech right now. That's. That's protected.

[Alex Berenson]

Well, are you naming a specific person?

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so right now, as it stands with death threats, this is how we have the Tweedledum Tweedledee thing. Some. Somebody will yell out at antifa. Nazis need to be killed on the spot. And they say, he's not creating an imminent threat. He's targeting nobody. He's giving an opinion about Nazis. The guy next to him points to Charlie Kirk and says, that's a Nazi. And then a guy pulls his gun up and shoots him. And they say, no one incited it.

[Alex Berenson]

Have you seen an actual case of that? Because that's.

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Alex Berenson]

That seems like incitement. It's not protected incitement.

[Tim Pool]

So we've been dealing with this for a decade as it pertains to antifa. Because this is how they do it. They don't explicitly say. They don't go on Twitter and say, everybody come to this spot and commit a crime. They break the sentences up so that no individual is responsible for the direct threat. They did this in Colombia with Jewish students. And then when a Jewish student showed up and everyone started attacking them, it was like, well, they got their marching orders, but no one had to tell them who to go after. We can't exist in a country where we allow fragmented death threats. So I don't Believe that. You know, I believe that there's an interesting question on the flag burning stuff to expand the free speech conversation. Trump says flag burning should be illegal. Obviously, stealing someone else's flag and burning it should be simple property crime. I believe if you own it, it's your. You can do whatever you want. So that's free speech. I agree. As long as you're not burning it in an illegal way, like the left will light a fire in the middle of the street. Okay, that's illegal. You can't do that.

[Alex Berenson]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

But when we get to the point where people are advocating for the murder of other people and they're. Just because they're not saying go right now and kill person does not mean what they're saying should be considered free speech. So Charlie Kirk and like, like with Trump right now, every single one of these gen zers who goes on TikTok and says someone needs to do it and then clicks off, arrested.

[Alex Berenson]

You know, again, if you're naming the president.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, they didn't though. Hasan Piker at an event said, if I said someone should do it, everybody knows what that means. They all laughed.

[Brett Dasovic]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

So when, if, if somebody goes on TikTok, here's what should happen. You see all these young women, largely young women, some young guys, they sit there and be like, why hasn't anyone done it yet? Someone right now, go do it and then turn it off. That person should be arrested. Now, what will be required is proving that what she was saying was related, was, was political. Because if she had a video before it where she was like, I wish I had a tub of cookie dough. Can't someone go buy it for me? And the next video was, someone go do it. Do it right now. Then the context is clearly not assassinations, but we know most of these people have political profiles, are posting about how they hate Trump, and then they say, go do it.

[Carter Banks]

Lock them up.

[Brett Dasovic]

Unless, of course, cookie dough is a dog whistle for Donald Trump. And it's a whole nother thing entirely.

[Tim Pool]

I view the world as in. There was a point in this country where we were one country and rights applied to those of this country who disagreed. But we are no longer one country. We are two countries.

[Alex Berenson]

Wait, you don't think rights apply to people you disagree with?

[Tim Pool]

That's a fact.

[Alex Berenson]

It's a fact.

[Tim Pool]

You think that Obama gave Anwar Al Awlaki his rights? He was an American citizen. You think he gave Abdurraman Al Awlaki his rights? He was an American citizen, too.

[Alex Berenson]

We're talking about Blowing up members of Al Qaeda.

[Tim Pool]

Abdurrahman Al Awlaki was not a member of Al Qaeda. He was a 16 year old kid from Boulder, Colorado, who grew up in San Diego, who was visiting his family in Yemen. And Barack Obama blew up the restaurant he was eating food at. He was the son of Al Qaeda. He himself was not. He was never a Jew. Do you think that if an American espouses ideals of terrorism, we should just kill him on the spot?

[Alex Berenson]

No.

[Tim Pool]

That's what Obama did. So the obvious reality is this. It is. There is obviously an area of contention in the United States where we have two distinct nations within the borders of one country. But there are two institutional mechanisms in place by which you can't just go around killing people because this is what a civil war ultimately is. But it is a fact that we do not grant rights to people of other countries.

[Alex Berenson]

People of other countries?

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Alex Berenson]

No, they are not protected by the First Amendment. They don't have constitutional rights within the

[Tim Pool]

borders of the United States, there exist two different countries. There is a multicultural democracy and a constitutional republic.

[Alex Berenson]

But what you just said is people you disagree with, not people who are not constitutionally protected because they're part of citizen.

[Tim Pool]

I think you're conflating from what I said to make it be about me arguing with a guy. What I said is there are two different countries, two different nations in the borders of this country. And as a fact, the United States and all countries do not grant rights to people of other countries.

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, nor should they. Right. Like they're not American.

[Tim Pool]

In which case the question becomes, at what point do people of the United States recognize there are two distinct. What is it? I keep mixing up the words nations within the countries within the borders of the same society. So the country is the borders and the nation is the people. I think is that. I guess I always mix them up.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, it's a good country.

[Tim Pool]

So there are two nations within the borders of one country. This is how civil wars begin. And it is a fact. This is not an opinion statement. Anybody who I think fairly assesses the political worldview of the left and the right would find that they are incongruous with each other and disastrously so.

[Alex Berenson]

Look, we're in a state that exists because of the civil war, Right? Right now. Okay? And the country responded to that and recovered from that. So I refuse to believe that this is going somewhere that cannot be fixed.

[Tim Pool]

So when you have a congress where, like, let's look at like Ilhan Omar, for instance, you have massive fraud, stealing from the public coffers and smug and smuggling that money to.

[Alex Berenson]

Are we saying Republicans don't do this all the time?

[Tim Pool]

I'm not saying they don't. What does that do with it?

[Alex Berenson]

Well, so what? So Illinois is a Democrat. So she's stealing.

[Tim Pool]

She's smuggling money to a foreign country.

[Alex Berenson]

We think.

[Tim Pool]

Well, we know that Somalis in Minnesota have been caught with big payloads of cash. We know that she has explicitly and publicly stated she is here for the benefit of Somalia and to bring resources to Somalia. She stated that. So we also then know that. I think at this point, it's largely known she married her brother illegally to grant him immigration benefits, which is immigration fraud. She's in our Congress. But I'll give you. I'll give you a simpler example. I don't know. Like, if you could, you could. You don't consider yourself liberal or conservative. You, like, moderate?

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah. I mean, as I said at a speech a few weeks ago, I don't get invited anywhere anymore by either side. Do you.

[Tim Pool]

Do you consider yourself pro life or pro choice?

[Alex Berenson]

If you had to categorize me, you'd categorize me as pro choice.

[Tim Pool]

Do you think that a woman should be able to get an abortion at nine months?

[Brett Dasovic]

No.

[Tim Pool]

What you. What would you do to stop her?

[Alex Berenson]

I ban the procedure, as they do in Europe.

[Tim Pool]

No, but I mean, like, a woman is walking past you, laughing, saying, you can't do anything about it. I know it's illegal. I'm gonna do it anyway. What would you do to stop her?

[Alex Berenson]

Well, if you're characterizing it as murder, which to me, I'm not. Which to me, it is. Okay. There's a. There's a line of fetal viability you can set. Their abortion is so complicated.

[Tim Pool]

I know, and that's why I use it.

[Alex Berenson]

Right. As somebody who has three kids, like, abortion is murder. I wrote about this in 2022. Abortion is murder, but it has to be legal because there's absolutely no gain within restrictions.

[Tim Pool]

But again, let's say. So you think it should be illegal for a man at nine months to get abortion?

[Alex Berenson]

Absolutely.

[Tim Pool]

Let me ask you another side question, and we'll come back to this one. If you were walking down the street in New York and you saw a man on his knees crying, and another man was pointing a gun at his head, and you had a crowbar in your hand, would you intervene to save that man from getting shot in the head?

[Alex Berenson]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

You would try and stop. Let's make it more explicit. The guy's on his knees Saying, please, please don't kill me. Just take my money and let me go. And the guy says, I'm gonna rob you and steal from you because I can, and no one can stop me. And then you're gonna die. You would intervene if you could?

[Alex Berenson]

I would, yes.

[Tim Pool]

You'd shoot that guy with the gun?

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah, hit him with the whatever.

[Tim Pool]

If you had a gun in your hand, you'd shoot that guy?

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah, I think so, yes.

[Tim Pool]

Most people would. I'll give you the more morally direct and obvious answer. Let's say you're walking, you leave here and you're in West Virginia, and you cross over into Virginia, because we don't like Virginia. And West Virginia is the best Virginia. And you're driving through a fee like you're driving through the countryside, and all of a sudden you see two people in a field. And one guy's on his knees and the other guy's whipping him. So you pull over and you walk up and it's a black man chained up, and there's a white man whipping him with a gun in his hand. And you're like, whoa, what's going on? And the black man screams, he's kidnapped me. And he says, I'm a slave now. Please help me. He's going to kill me. And the white guy yells, I own him now, and I'll kill him if I want to. And then he cocks the gun. Would you shoot that white man to save that black man? I'd do it in two seconds.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah, sure. As presented, sure.

[Tim Pool]

I'd do it in two seconds. I think most people would, sure. So the reason I give you the scenario is there's no moral ambiguity to defending another life.

[Alex Berenson]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

If a woman was about to get an abortion and a doctor had the forceps and he looked at you dead in the eyes and says, and now I kill the baby by snipping its spinal cord, would you shoot him?

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, to be consistent, the answer is yes.

[Tim Pool]

But most conservatives say no.

[Alex Berenson]

I mean, yes, I think even the sort of really hardcore pro lifers. And this is why you have to make practical compromises in the real world, even though hardcore pro lifers blanch from, we're going to imprison doctors and women for abortion.

[Tim Pool]

So the issue, the issue that's the

[Alex Berenson]

problem, because we know intuitively and inherently that this is something that you really can't stop women from doing, no matter what.

[Tim Pool]

Let's say there's a woman in Oklahoma. Oklahoma's completely banned abortion, but let's just say it's not even about it. She's eight months pregnant. Let's say that she calls an Uber, gets in and calls up her friend on the phone saying, I'm leaving my husband. I want to get an abortion, and I don't want to be with him. So we're going to drive to Colorado.

[Alex Berenson]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

Should the Uber driver call the police and say she's about to commit a murder? It's a felony in this. It's illegal. You can't do it. I'm going to stop her.

[Alex Berenson]

You're saying she's eight months pregnant?

[Tim Pool]

Yep.

[Alex Berenson]

Then, yes, in my opinion.

[Tim Pool]

So what happens if. So let's entertain these ideas. Like, let's say she's sitting at a diner and she's with a woman. And the woman's like, I'm going to drive you to Colorado and we are going to abort this baby. Abort it dead. And she goes, I can't wait to get this thing out of me. I hate this man. And a cop is sitting behind her. Should he arrest her on the spot? Conspiracy to commit abortion.

[Alex Berenson]

We're talking. We're talking. We're talking eight months. Okay.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Alex Berenson]

So in my opinion, those abortions should not be legal anywhere.

[Tim Pool]

I know.

[Alex Berenson]

So it's not about Colorado versus Oregon?

[Tim Pool]

No, no. Oklahoma.

[Alex Berenson]

I'm sorry.

[Tim Pool]

Where it's illegal. I'm just saying in Oklahoma it is illegal.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

So the cop should stop.

[Alex Berenson]

So she's violating the law. The cop has the ability to enforce the law.

[Tim Pool]

What if.

[Alex Berenson]

Force the law.

[Tim Pool]

What if she. What if she crosses the border into Colorado before they can stop her? Now what happens?

[Alex Berenson]

Well, now it's not illegal.

[Tim Pool]

No, it should be.

[Alex Berenson]

Is it kidnapping of the unborn fetus?

[Tim Pool]

I mean, that baby is viable and that husband, that's his child.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

And she's gonna kill it. Is the layer of flesh between her and the baby a moral distinction between whether she kidnapped the baby?

[Alex Berenson]

Yes, it is, because it's her flesh. This is the problem.

[Tim Pool]

My question was, will never convince a woman. I'm not trying to. My question for you was she's not

[Alex Berenson]

a layer of flesh. She's a person.

[Tim Pool]

My question to you is not whether she's a person. It was. That is the layer of flesh between the baby creating a moral distinction between the life of the baby.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

If she kidnaps a baby to murder, what do we do?

[Alex Berenson]

I agree with you in principle, but what I am saying to you is that this is one where you have to exist in the real world. You must exist in the real world.

[Tim Pool]

And what does that mean?

[Alex Berenson]

It means that there are. You will never convince a majority of women.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not talking about that. That's not an argument that I'm trying to make, nor is it relevant to the conversation.

[Alex Berenson]

You're just throwing out hypotheticals to get me to agree that there's something.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not trying to get you to agree. I'm trying to ask you what your morals are so I can ask you more questions to understand your worldview. But again, because you are thinking there's a gotcha here, you're refusing to answer the question. You're changing the subject. No, let me finish my point, okay?

[Alex Berenson]

And then I will come back with a.

[Tim Pool]

Because this question has nothing to do with abortion. It was to figure out what your morals are so that I can provide for you a scenario and understand what you would think would happen and what we should do about it, which is, I don't care if women want or don't want abortion to be. This is not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is a man whose baby has been taken by the mother and is about to be killed. And what do you think that man will do to save his child?

[Alex Berenson]

Okay, so. So you. There are. There are arguments that don't have any right answer. There are moral positions that cannot be squared.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, I'm going to. Can I stop you? You are going off in the wrong direction. No, no, I'm going to stop you. I'm going to stop you. Again, we're not talking about abortion. We're talking about is.

[Alex Berenson]

We're talking about a framework of questions.

[Tim Pool]

We are talking about a scenario I'm presenting to you so that you can explain how you see the world. So I'm going to ask you the final question in this scenario as it pertains to civil war, not abortion.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

What would a father do if a woman took his baby at eight months in a state where it's illegal to kill? To cross state lines to kill?

[Alex Berenson]

I don't know what he would do.

[Tim Pool]

You don't have any idea of what a dad would do to save his child.

[Alex Berenson]

Here's what I'm saying to you. There are two kinds of questions in the world. Questions that have actual answers. Okay. How effective is the MRNA vaccine? Okay. It's this effective for this long. That's a question that you can test and you can answer. Yep. Okay. And then there's a question of which is more important? My autonomy not to get the vaccine or some collective good that exists? If we are all vaccinated and can't transmit. Covid. If pretending that the vaccine worked, okay, that those. The question of individual freedom versus collective good has no answer and it's not

[Tim Pool]

what we're talking about.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes, it is. Okay, it's not.

[Tim Pool]

You said that you didn't see a scenario in which this country could get to that point. I am giving you some scenarios to consider your moral worldview on so that we can come to the final question of do you think it's possible a 35 year old man would use violence to save his 8 month, 8 month gestated, viable child from being killed?

[Alex Berenson]

Yes, I think there's a scenario where that happens.

[Tim Pool]

What happens in a scenario where you have a country where states bordering each other have hyper bifurcated views on these things? Where a woman committing a felony is not breaking the law in one state and you have state law enforcement trying to stop her. In fact, I think it might have been Mississippi that sought to charge him with conspiracy to commit abortion because she was planning to flee the state. My point here is the moral distinction between the multicultural democracy and the constitutional republic are at such extreme ends that neither can coexist. At a certain point the bridge breaks. A woman says, I'm gonna get a nine month abortion so I don't have to live with this man. And the man says, she's gonna commit a felony kidnapping my child. The liberals say it's not a child, it's a fetus. The conservatives say it's a child. Now you have a breakdown where the police in Colorado will protect her because she's not committing a crime and they will not allow another state to come in and a father who says, I will get every man who will stand by my side and we will stop anyone who dares to kill my child. We're not there yet, but we are dangerously close. When states like California kidnap children for sex changes, When Washington passes a law saying a stranger on the Internet can kidnap a child from Arizona, bring them to Washington for a sex change and the state will protect them having done it. We are at a dangerous point where these laws are only recently passed. But what happens when a mom and dad, their 14 year old daughter goes missing and then they find out a 46 year old man, a pedophile, picked her up in his car and drove her to Washington to get her sterilized to give her puberty blockers and testosterone and Washington says what he did is heroic. Do you think those parents are going to be like, guess our child's gone? No, I Don't So that. My point is not that right now there's gonna be people shooting at each other. My point is in Congress we have a woman who says she wants to destroy this country. She's not in yet, but she will be. We also have foreign born individuals who have explicitly stated they're going to extract money for the betterment of their home countries to their own people. And their constituents have been smuggling money out of the country. We have seen massive fraud in Minnesota, Ohio and California in the Somali community. This country is being extracted. And there is an ever shrinking population of American traditionalists, Constitutional Republicanists I guess you can call it, who believe in the founding Fathers, their vision for the Constitution, the evolution of the Constitution through amendments, and other individuals who are either communist ideologues or foreign born and want to destroy this country. These two forces can't coexist. And I can give you a really easy example. When Dan Goldman tried to buy coffee and they threw him out, right? He can't even buy coffee in his home city. So how are we supposed to coexist as this escalates? It's not possible, okay?

[Alex Berenson]

Since again we're in the free state of West Virginia, just over the border was the slave state of Virginia. There was a big argument in 4 1860, about slavery, right? Whether whether it was moral or not, the north increasingly believed it was actually immoral. And I know there's an economic component to that and I know, you know, the north was industrializing, the south was more dependent on cotton, etc. But ultimately I do believe there was a moral argument that led to a war.

[Tim Pool]

West Virginia wasn't, technically, it wasn't a free state.

[Alex Berenson]

It split.

[Tim Pool]

It split because the fighting age, men who vote went to war in the east and south and the people who remain didn't want to fight, so they voted not to fight.

[Alex Berenson]

Fair enough.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, it's pretty wild how like Virginia called up all of the men from the area that was known as like the Kanawha region, which they wanted to name the state West Virginia. And when all those men were no longer there to defend their state or their values, the remaining individuals broke the state off and ran. Remarkable.

[Alex Berenson]

It's remarkable.

[Tim Pool]

Not that Virginia was good, you know, but.

[Alex Berenson]

But we fought a war, okay? And the north won. The Union did not break. And now I don't think anybody would disagree that slavery is immoral, okay? That argument actually changed. There are no longer two sides. There's no longer a group of people saying, I mean, maybe there's a few saying you know, the Bible gives me the right to own the children of Hamilton.

[Tim Pool]

And there's a lot of people who think slavery is fine, but I think it's based on, I think most Americans, their immediate view of slavery is based on chattel slavery and like farm work. And the people who agree, at least to a certain degree privately, but maybe don't want to publicly say it. The arguments they tend to make is that slavery as depicted in media is not actually how slavery was. And only 3% of Americans in the south own slaves.

[Alex Berenson]

It's fine. I thought you were going to go somewhere else and say that most of the people in the United States who believe in slavery now are from Africa and Saudi Arabia.

[Tim Pool]

If you, if you talk to a lot of Southerners about the issue of slavery, they'll usually default to no, no, like, we don't think slavery should be allowed. But, and then they'll say things like, there were slaves who earned a living, made money and worked as cobblers. They just couldn't leave. Right. They had their, their, the slave owner directed their, their livelihood.

[Alex Berenson]

I think the consensus is that slavery is wrong.

[Tim Pool]

And the far, I, I, I, I, I think you need to go down to Georgia. I think you need to go down to some of these places and, and they'll, they'll, they'll, they, a lot of these people, they, like, you'll find people who don't. But, but the, the question I have for you on the issue, I don't know if you want to hit a point before I go.

[Brett Dasovic]

The point was, is that now the, the far left, the similar to what this lady is espousing here, believes that, that almost that same thing exists, except for its CEOs, and they keep you trapped via economic means because nobody can get out.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. So my question for you is, do you think the north was, was, was righteous? Were they, were they correct and moral?

[Alex Berenson]

Ultimately, yes. And I know that's going to be a controversial opinion, but yes, I think the war of Northern aggression was necessary. And I believe when, what Lincoln said in the second inaugural.

[Tim Pool]

Do you think, would you consider Lincoln to be the good guy?

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

Yes.

[Alex Berenson]

Oh, yes.

[Tim Pool]

Would you be mad if Donald Trump suspended habeas corpus?

[Alex Berenson]

If there were a Civil war?

[Tim Pool]

There was no civil war. When Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, there

[Alex Berenson]

was a civil war on the horizon.

[Tim Pool]

Tim, that's a different question from there was a civil war. The fact that Abraham Lincoln. In fact, I could argue that the suspension of habeas corpus made the Civil War happen. Right.

[Alex Berenson]

You are not going to convince me about this. And I. And I know quite a bit about the history of the Civil War.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so before the Civil War. Right? So. So let's get the facts straight. Battle sumter. Sumter happens. And the American people do not believe a civil war is happening at this point. The battle of Bull Run.

[Alex Berenson]

Say that, but that's not really true.

[Tim Pool]

That is absolutely true. Do you know when the first instance of the phrase civil war was used officially? It was 1863.

[Alex Berenson]

Officially. Okay. Do you think that by 1863, with armies marching up and down this ground in Pennsylvania and Maryland, people didn't. Weren't aware that there was a Civil War happening?

[Tim Pool]

1863. They did.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

But they did not call it a civil war.

[Alex Berenson]

Maybe they didn't call it that.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so you get Fort Sumter, and nobody says there's a Civil War. In fact, they don't even say there's a rebellion. They don't even say there's a war

[Alex Berenson]

in the time the south seceded.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, when did they secede?

[Alex Berenson]

The state started seceding in 1861. Did they not?

[Tim Pool]

So in which state seceded first?

[Alex Berenson]

Oh, my God. Are we really playing this game?

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no. Let's not go nitty gritty for no stupid reason. Seven states seceded. And it was after Abraham Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus and the calling up of troops that four other states joined in. Virginia initially did not secede. Virginia got freaked out. In fact, Virginia was 2 to 1 against secession until Abraham Lincoln crossed the line. Well, then they freaked out.

[Carter Banks]

The Confederates opened fire in Fort Sumter on April 12, and then 10 days later, I.

[Tim Pool]

Are you sure about that? Because my understanding is no one knows who fired first. April.

[Carter Banks]

So it's two weeks later.

[Tim Pool]

My understanding is that there's not. There's not a historical record on who opened fire.

[Alex Berenson]

Let me ask you a basic question, seriously. Do you. Do you. Are you in the camp that says the Civil War was not about slavery? It was about states rights.

[Tim Pool]

It was about slavery.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay, so we agree about that.

[Tim Pool]

They wanted to put in their Constitution. They put it in their Constitution.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes. Okay, so. So because that argument, however crazy, why.

[Tim Pool]

Why did southerners fight in the Civil War?

[Alex Berenson]

Why did they fight? Yes. You're gonna say was to protect their rights. No. Okay.

[Tim Pool]

It was to defend their homes.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

The Civil War started for a variety of reasons. You can. You can. You can lay it out in a bunch of different ways, but there's no real, like, one issue. We usually just say slavery because the south was the, the Southern states, the slave states were fearful that with Abraham Lincoln's election, despite the fact he said we would not ban slavery, we will just not. Not expand it, they believed he was lying.

[Alex Berenson]

Right?

[Tim Pool]

That all because they're. The Republican party's ultimate goal was the abolition of slavery. We had seven years of bleeding Kansas. So shooting and fighting was already happening in these territories. So when Abraham Lincoln gets elected, it's actually, I think it was January before he was even inaugurated. Seven states decided to secede. In fact, Texas secession was hilarious. They only seceded because of geography. The, the. Several officials, several state senators, I don't know the exact individuals, but they, they had written we can't be attached to a Union.

[Alex Berenson]

We're not attached that we're not attached to.

[Tim Pool]

And for trade reasons, geographically the Confederacy makes the most sense. Abraham Lincoln, then you get the Battle of Fort Sumter, South Carolina says get your federal troops off our land. They say it's our land. You can't do this. My understanding was no one knows exactly who fired first, but nobody died. I'm sorry, Nobody died in the conflict. One person died accidentally from it.

[Carter Banks]

It says that the south, the Southern general Pierre Gustave Toutant Beauregard ordered the attack at 4:30am okay, then maybe I

[Tim Pool]

could be wrong about this. I might be conflating this with Lexington and Concord. I think I am.

[Carter Banks]

They don't know that's the shot heard around the world.

[Tim Pool]

No one knows who shot first. So after the battle of Fort Sumter, there is no civil war in the United States. Not a single person believes there is or even will be when this, when, when the Northern forces are coming to Manassas to enter Virginia and Southern forces move forward. People are picnicking.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes, I know. Yes.

[Tim Pool]

After the first battle of Bull Run, there was still no civil war in the United States. We only look back with hindsight at

[Alex Berenson]

Manassas and Bull Run and they still

[Tim Pool]

did not call it or believe there was a civil war.

[Alex Berenson]

Right, but saying it was a picnic or people were picnicking.

[Tim Pool]

They were.

[Alex Berenson]

No, they were. They were.

[Tim Pool]

But say the point to say that they were picking is to point out that the people did not perceive a civil war to be happening.

[Alex Berenson]

No, they didn't have media. They foolishly thought. I don't know what they thought.

[Tim Pool]

I don't. I don't think they foolishly thought anything. I think they think just like you do right now. We had, we have, we have antifa committing I think over 465 terror attacks in the last four years.

[Alex Berenson]

Cannot compare the Political violence in the United States in the last few years, which is ugly and has mostly been left to right. I agree.

[Tim Pool]

You can compare it exactly to Bleeding Kansas.

[Alex Berenson]

See, I'm looking at Charlie Kirk and

[Tim Pool]

like, are you familiar with what was going down in bleeding Kansas? It's basically identical.

[Alex Berenson]

Oh, people are getting scalped.

[Tim Pool]

Charlie Kirk got shot in the throat. Karen Downson took two bolts to the chest. Trump sent Marines into a marijuana plantation that child slaves and the Democrats fought to stop them and fought with the Marines. We are at a point where we are very much in a. So academics describe what we're in as civil strife. Bleeding Kansas was civil strife. However, the civil rights era was also civil strife. Civil strife is academically defined as a period when at least 70 people are killed for political reasons per year or something to that effect. So we're well past that. The civil rights era did not end in a civil war. However, Bleeding Kansas did. So we don't know exactly if this will result in a civil war or not, but the potentiality is absolutely there. Academically, what we're seeing, I would argue, to the point of Abraham Lincoln, is the people of this country saw a battle. But what about when Biden sent the feds against the Texas National Guard? Now, don't get me wrong, nobody was shooting each other, but it was getting tense and we were like, holy crap. Like, the Texas National Guard is now head to head with federal law enforcement. This could kick off in a very dangerous way. I would argue that is dangerously close to a Fort Sumter moment. No, they weren't shooting at each other, but they were given laws against. They were given directives against each other. So that's why we're like, holy crap. One accidental discharge and we're in a civil war. Donald Trump took a bullet, side of the head, and people said we were 2 millimeters from a civil war. Abraham Lincoln suspends habeas corpus, creating a corridor from Philadelphia down to D.C. because Maryland was a slave state and the Maryland legislature was sympathetic to the Southern cause.

[Carter Banks]

It was going to be a Abraham Lincoln, too.

[Tim Pool]

He was, like, sent in federal law enforcement to arrest a third of the Maryland legislature to stop them from being able to vote against him. He then arrested people without cause throughout this corridor and locked them up for years. He was. It was only two years later that Congress, after he wiped out his enemies, approved retroactively the suspension of habeas corpus. My point ultimately is one could argue there would have not been a civil war had Abraham Lincoln not decided to fight one. The Southern secession May have just been a secession and we'd have two different countries right now.

[Carter Banks]

There was a Baltimore riot on April 19, and it's so close to the Capitol. That's why he suspended their. Their rights and indeed and took it.

[Tim Pool]

Maryland was a slave state. So was Delaware.

[Carter Banks]

It was too close to the Capitol.

[Tim Pool]

And so Abraham Lincoln said, the Constitution be damned. He had no authority to suspend habeas corpus. That's a legislative power. He did it anyway. He had no authority to call up troops or do any of the things that he did. He did it anyway because, as Trump said, a man who saves his nation breaks no laws.

[Phil Labonte]

Napoleon said that too. Right.

[Alex Berenson]

Is that true?

[Phil Labonte]

I think it was.

[Tim Pool]

That's great. He gets the quote because it was a big deal when he said it, you know?

[Carter Banks]

Yeah, you got it.

[Tim Pool]

Everybody was like, I can't believe he said it.

[Carter Banks]

You always got to ask though, like, what am I trying to preserve? Do I have to destroy this system in order to save it?

[Tim Pool]

Like, let's. We'll get some super chats in because I just. This is. This is the Tim rants about Civil War episode Smash the like button. Share the show J Dirt Biker says, ian, my culture is not your costume. And I'm offended, really. Oh, my God, says Tim Pools for Alex. The Nazis didn't say that they were going to bake the cookies until they did. How is it all hypothetical when Mom Dummy is saying that he will do the thing against the U.S. again, I

[Alex Berenson]

don't think he's saying he will do the thing against the U.S. i think he's arguing over federal law enforcement authority with ice, which I don't agree with him about. I think that ICE does have the right to enforce US Immigration laws inside, you know, the.

[Tim Pool]

Well, they actually don't know.

[Alex Berenson]

Whatever.

[Tim Pool]

They actually don't. That was. That was the big issue of contention with Biden. The argument Texas was like, we can't deport or deal with these illegal immigrants or arrest them because it's a federal. It's a constitutional executive authority.

[Alex Berenson]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

Congress designated that authority to the executive branch, the ina.

[Alex Berenson]

Right. I agree with that.

[Tim Pool]

So Mamdani has no authority to interfere in that. Again, we're talking about insurrection.

[Alex Berenson]

It's not insurrection. So there's no insurrection in New York City. I was just there.

[Tim Pool]

But, but, but this is why I brought up the Civil War stuff. Because you're like, if it wasn't in a movie, it's not happening. Like, here's a question, right? When. When. When the Civil War was kicking off, do you think people walked outside their homes and there was fires and there was insurrection and people with pitchforks? The answer is there wasn't. It's.

[Alex Berenson]

Look, I. I've actually spent some time in war zones, okay? And most of the time, this is what I learned as a reporter for the New York Times in Iraq. Most of the time, in most war zones, it's peaceful.

[Tim Pool]

In most like New York is right now.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay. That doesn't mean there's not a war happening. Doesn't mean there's not an insurrection happening. It's. It's not really about what's happening outside your door. Okay. There was a. There was. The. The Northern states and the Southern states were moving towards irrevocable conflict on the issue of slavery. And. And Lincoln, I don't think could have stopped that in any way short of allowing the south to secede, as you said. That's what he could have done, right?

[Tim Pool]

Yep.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay. He chose not to do that. I'm glad.

[Tim Pool]

He should. Donald Trump choose not to allow Mamdani to block.

[Alex Berenson]

There's no comparison.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not comparing the two. I'm asking you, should Donald Trump not allow what Mamdani is doing? Should he just be like, I think.

[Alex Berenson]

I think politically, Minnesota demonstrated he would be making a mistake to escalate.

[Tim Pool]

Should federal law enforcement arrest local law enforcement if they interfere in federal law enforcement?

[Alex Berenson]

Again, it's a hypothetical, and I think we have it demonstrated.

[Tim Pool]

Well, that's not a hypothetical. That's a question of law. Okay, fine. My answer is simply, I believe yes. I don't care if you're a cop. If you obstruct justice, you get arrested.

[Alex Berenson]

Okay. Should federal law enforcement be running around trying to pull illegal immigrants off the street if they've committed no crime, or

[Tim Pool]

would it be bad? Hold on. You just had illegal immigrants.

[Alex Berenson]

Yeah. Okay, fair enough. If they've committed no crime other than. Than being here illegally, yes, absolutely. Or is there a better way to do it? By denying them all the, you know, debanking. Debanking and de. Welfaring and d. Free transitioning and d. All the shit that the left says that they don't get that they do get.

[Tim Pool]

But I think.

[Alex Berenson]

Would that be a better way to do this?

[Tim Pool]

That wouldn't 70% of the people they've gone after have been violent criminals.

[Alex Berenson]

That's not true. It's not.

[Tim Pool]

Those are the cited ones that I'm

[Alex Berenson]

sure we can find. That's not true.

[Tim Pool]

Those are the cited evidence.

[Alex Berenson]

There aren't enough violent criminals to make that work. And I think we can find that look on ChatGPT.

[Tim Pool]

Those are the numbers cited when they said Donald Trump claimed he was going to go after only the violent criminals. But that's only 70%. 30% have been like, can we find this?

[Alex Berenson]

Because I don't think that's true.

[Carter Banks]

But what's the timeframe that you're, You're.

[Alex Berenson]

This is like the first month.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, well, like last year, it was reported. So last, when the Minnesota, like into the winter, the reporting was that only. Only around 70% were actually criminals and Trump was actually going after Bakers.

[Alex Berenson]

And I. I voted for Trump. Okay. And I'm glad he closed the border. And that gave him a way to do this that most Americans would agree with. Right. Essentially by cutting off the flow of funds to these folks and making it uncomfortable for them. In pursuing this aggressive policy, he's undercut what he. Public support for something that I think at baseline is highly supported. I'm more of a pragmatist.

[Tim Pool]

I think the Republican Party has been sitting on their hands. I think the American people have been sitting on their hands. I think there's one simple question that needs to be asked by. How do the American people benefit by bringing these people into our country?

[Alex Berenson]

Right. They don't. So let's not let them come in and let's get the ones who are in out in some reasonable way.

[Tim Pool]

I'm talking about Ilhan Omar.

[Alex Berenson]

Oh, that.

[Carter Banks]

This is just ChatGPT. It says in 2025, roughly 70 plus percent had no criminal conviction in 2025.

[Alex Berenson]

It sounds more reasonable to me and

[Carter Banks]

that maybe that was 3% of ICE detainees had a violent felony conviction in 2025. This is from ABC News. The other one's from the Cato Institute.

[Tim Pool]

No, Cato Institute's fake.

[Carter Banks]

Okay. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Cato Institute argues that if a white supremacist punches his wife, it's a political. It's an act of political violence.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

Oh, okay.

[Carter Banks]

Yeah. So I encourage you to do your own research on it. I'm using ChatGPT.

[Tim Pool]

I thought it was the other way around because. And so I would. I would. I would just say I'll defer to the immediate fact check. But my concern is not trusting these sources because what they like to do is claim Kilmar Alberto Garcia was a Maryland father instead of saying he was an adjudicated MS.13 gang member.

[Carter Banks]

This is that for 2025. ICE data and independent analysis show a very different pattern. So who. I'll try.

[Tim Pool]

That's the point. We had a debate with Some liberals where they said. I can't remember who it was. They said only 70% have actually been criminals. The rest have been just run of the mill, you know, undocumented workers and blah, blah, blah, blah. That could be where I'm confusing the number, because I was debating someone, and I assumed that that was right and it was actually wrong. But I think if you pull up ICE numbers, it'll probably something different. And therein lies the big challenge. We're gonna go to the uncensored portion of the show. Smash the like button. We'll swear as we talk about the same things. You can follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast. It's gonna [e-mail] Timcast IRL. Alex, you want to shout anything out?

[Alex Berenson]

Oh, can I pitch my.

[Tim Pool]

Of course.

[Alex Berenson]

So this is the Fatherhood Manifesto. I wrote this for Father's Day. It is essentially a conservative defense of fathers and fatherhood and masculinity, which I can't believe that I'm the one writing, and I can't believe that this has to be written, but it does, because, you know, for 40 years, the left has been mocking fathers and fatherhood. Really. It started with Married With Children, and it's never stopped. And so this is. You know, it's. It's. It's very short, as Charlie, who is not here, said to me. It's. He's gonna read his copy on the bathroom, which, you know, I think read it wherever you like, buddy. It is. It's sort of 20% philosophical defense of conservative vision of fathering. That's not gentle parenting. And then 50 practical tips.

[Tim Pool]

I was told by Bing Crosby, you got to beat the kid with a sack of sweet Valencia oranges because it'll show them who's boss but won't leave a bruise.

[Alex Berenson]

I don't know if I'd go quite

[Tim Pool]

that far, but it's actually not true.

[Alex Berenson]

That's the theme. The bruise part will.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, yeah. No, like, don't beat your kid.

[Alex Berenson]

No. Punch him in the stomach. Let's go and hit your kids.

[Phil Labonte]

Alex, what's it called again?

[Alex Berenson]

It's called the Fatherhood Manifesto. And, no, don't hit your kids.

[Tim Pool]

Where do people get the book?

[Alex Berenson]

You can get it on Amazon. You can hear my, you know, dulcet tones on audible. Yes.

[Brett Dasovic]

Oh, cool.

[Alex Berenson]

Yes.

[Carter Banks]

It's an audiobook.

[Alex Berenson]

It is an audiobook. It sort of looks like the COVID booklets. And that's intentional. It's sort of supposed to be very basic, but, you know, somebody said to me, how is this, you know, you were writing about COVID How's this? Like that? I said this is sort of. It's a cultural version of this. These are the truths the mainstream media doesn't give you.

[Tim Pool]

Let's go. Let's go heavy on the COVID stuff in the uncensored portion.

[Alex Berenson]

Sure.

[Tim Pool]

Because there's a lot going on still and we've talked about it quite a bit. But what's up, guys?

[Brett Dasovic]

If you want to follow me, I'm on Instagram and on X at Brett Dasovic on both of those platforms. You should check out PCC. Pop Culture Crisis is live Monday through Friday, 3:00pm Eastern Standard Time. That is, of course, noon Pacific. Also, if you are a member of the Tim cast Discord. I do shows twice a month on Saturday nights at 7pm Another bonus episode. You guys can call in talk as well. It's a lot of fun. Thanks, guys.

[Carter Banks]

I'm. Would you. I. I'm just happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks for allowing me to participate. I hope I didn't steamroll anybody. I really, really enjoyed that. So, Alex, great to see you. Tim, Phil, everybody. Good to see you guys. Brett, Carter Banks, thanks for coming. Hey, man.

[Unnamed Narrator/Voice Actor]

Always welcome.

[Carter Banks]

Love you, Phil.

[Phil Labonte]

IB I am Phil. That remains on Twix. The band is all that remains. You can check us out on Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, YouTube, Sports, Spotify and Deezer. Don't forget Ian Crossland cannot change the weather with his mind.

[Alex Berenson]

Are you. You sure you can't.

[Carter Banks]

You're not sure. That's the point. My magnetic field is interfering with the earth's magnetic field. Thus logically would dictate there is some connection between your body and the weather. Yes, I'm Carter Banks.

[Tim Pool]

You can follow me at Carter Banks

[Carter Banks]

everywhere and at Carter Banks official everywhere else.

[Tim Pool]

Put a new music video out to

[Carter Banks]

the song I've got right now on trash house records YouTube channel. Go check it out at trash house records us on YouTube.

[Tim Pool]

And also get the song and help me beat Lizzo. We're almost got to beat Lizzo.

[Brett Dasovic]

Not that hard. Her sales are on Ozempic.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, you were waiting for that, weren't you?

[Brett Dasovic]

I tweeted already.

[Tim Pool]

All right, we'll see you all over at rumble. Com. Timcast IRL right now. Thanks for hanging out.