Nick Fuentes NEARLY ASSASSINATED, Man Took 3 Lives, MANGIONE EFFECT w/Luke Beasley

Summary

Timcast IRL Episode Summary: "Nick Fuentes NEARLY ASSASSINATED, Man Took 3 Lives, MANGIONE EFFECT w/Luke Beasley"

Release Date: December 20, 2024
Host/Author: Timcast Media
Guests: Luke Beasley, Phil Labonte, Eliyahu, Luka Gradowski

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1. Introduction and Key Stories

In this intense episode of Timcast IRL, host Tim Pool, alongside guests Luke Beasley, Phil Labonte, Eliyahu, and Luka Gradowski, delves into a series of gripping and controversial topics. The primary focus centers on a harrowing incident involving Nick Fuentes, the potential government shutdown, and the broader implications of political violence, referred to as the "Mangione Effect."

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**2. Attempted Assassination of Nick Fuentes

Incident Overview:

At approximately [04:00], Luka Gradowski introduces the shocking news that Nick Fuentes, a far-right influencer, was the target of a near-fatal attack. A man approached Fuentes' home with a crossbow and pistol, intending to kill him. Prior to this, the assailant had already killed three individuals and two dogs before being apprehended by police.

Discussion on Self-Defense and Responsibility:

Based on body camera footage, Gradowski asserts Fuentes' justified self-defense:
"It appears that Fuentes is 100% in the right in defending himself when this went down." [07:00]

Mangione Effect:

The conversation pivots to the "Mangione Effect," a term coined to describe the rise in public support for the assassination of perceived enemies:
"With the open public support for assassination of perceived enemies, to see this attempt on Nick Fuentes' life is actually rather terrifying." [07:30]

Host's Perspective:

Tim Pool emphasizes the universality of nonviolence, irrespective of political stance:
"Regardless of who it is... the solution is nonviolence. This is something we don't do and this is something that could desperately escalate the situation towards grand dangerous proportions that we don't want to be living in." [08:37]

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3. Government Shutdown and Fiscal Concerns

Current Status:

Luka Gradowski outlines the looming government shutdown due to the failure of the continuing resolution, with a deadline set for Saturday:
"It looks like the government will shut down at least for a month. Who knows?" [02:58]

Impact of Continuing Resolution:

Discussions highlight the problematic nature of omnibus spending bills, which bundle numerous unrelated provisions: "You wheel them in and bam, you have 3,000 pages of regulations...people are spending their time fundraising instead of legislating." [91:06]

Proposed Solutions:

Phil Labonte suggests adopting single-issue spending bills to enhance legislative efficiency:
"What we really need is to have actual substantive change in the way the Senate operates and have the ability to get rid of these omnibus bills." [84:29]

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4. Political Violence: Left vs. Right

Debate on Extremism:

A heated debate ensues regarding whether political violence is more prevalent on the left or the right. Luke Beasley references a University of Maryland study indicating right-wing extremists are more prone to violence:
"Our analysis shows the right wing actors are significantly more violent than left wing actors." [19:12]

Counterarguments:

Luka Gradowski challenges the definitions and categorizations used in such studies, arguing that left-wing groups also engage in violent tactics:
"Left wingers... have something called the diversity of tactics... it's something that you don't see associated with right wing groups." [10:15]

Clarifying Definitions:

The conversation underscores the ambiguity in defining political ideologies, complicating the assessment of violent tendencies:
"Right wing ideology encompasses a broad range of political beliefs... left wing has one parent organization." [26:41]

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5. Taxation, Debt Ceiling, and Government Spending

Debt Growth:

The panel discusses the relentless increase in national debt, attributing it to both Democratic and Republican fiscal policies. Tim Pool criticizes the government's inability to curtail spending:
"The US is going to have its biggest line item, interest payments...tax more and end up with inflation." [=== No timestamp; inferred from discussion]

Social Security and Medicare:

Phil Labonte highlights the impending insolvency of Social Security by 2033, emphasizing the need for restructuring:
"We need to deal with the unfunded liabilities, the mandatory spending... Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid need to be restructured." [=== No timestamp]

Tax Policy:

Luke Beasley advocates for taxation reforms, particularly targeting higher incomes to support Social Security:
"I would want to get rid of that [Social Security cap] before we start cutting." [25:08]

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6. Government Regulation vs. Deregulation

Environmental Regulations:

The panel debates the efficacy of government regulations in protecting public health versus fostering economic growth. Tim Pool argues that deregulation can prevent corporate malfeasance:
"A lot of problems... the government... playing a major role in undermining and screwing people over." [120:55]

Free Market Perspectives:

Phil Labonte and Luka Gradowski discuss the drawbacks of excessive regulation, likening it to barriers preventing new businesses from emerging:
"Most regulation is meant to be a barrier to entry for people. Not to save people or protect people." [125:13]

Case Studies:

Examples like glyphate in food products and the impact of deregulation on manufacturing are examined to illustrate the tension between economic freedom and public safety.

---

7. Transgender Issues and Children's Treatment

Puberty Blockers and Surgeries:

The conversation intensifies around the use of puberty blockers and surgical interventions for transgender minors. Luka Gradowski criticizes the irreversibility and long-term effects of such treatments:
"If you're on puberty blockers... it's not reversible in the sense that you will never get back the years... your bone density." [142:08]

Legal Protections:

Debate extends to whether gender identity should be a protected class under civil rights laws, with differing opinions on discrimination in public spaces like bathrooms:
"Do you think that businesses should have the right to discriminate on the basis of gender identity?" [132:09]

Court Rulings:

Reference is made to Supreme Court interactions where attorneys discuss the impact of medical interventions on transgender youth's mental health, questioning the touted benefits versus actual outcomes.

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8. Concluding Thoughts: Government Inefficiency and Future Outlook

Government Dysfunction:

The panel collectively expresses frustration with the current state of Congress, highlighting inefficiencies and the prioritization of fundraising over legislating:
"Members of Congress spend all of their time fundraising instead of legislating." [91:06]

Personal Responsibility vs. Government Overreach:

Tim Pool advocates for increased personal responsibility and reduced government intervention, arguing that individuals should be less reliant on government-provided safety nets.

Final Remarks:

As the episode wraps up, the guests reiterate their viewpoints on the critical issues discussed, emphasizing the need for systemic change to address political violence, fiscal irresponsibility, and overregulation.

Notable Quotes:

• Luka Gradowski on the Nick Fuentes incident:
  "A man walked up with a crossbow and what appears to be a bolt gun yelling 'yo, Nick'... This is terrifying stuff." [07:30]

• Tim Pool on political violence:
  "Regardless of who it is... the solution is nonviolence. This is something we don't do." [08:37]

• Luke Beasley on taxation and Social Security:
  "Portion... I've made a bunch of times... Sometimes we'll say in a general sense that regardless of political views, we all think violence would be wrong to solve those political views." [10:10]

• Phil Labonte on Social Security:
  "We need to restructure Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid." [95:11]

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This episode of Timcast IRL presents a robust and often contentious discussion on pressing political issues, reflecting deep divisions and passionate arguments among the panelists. Listeners are provided with varied perspectives on the state of American politics, the balance between regulation and economic freedom, and the ethical considerations surrounding transgender youth treatments.

Transcript

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[Luka Gradowski]

A wild story, ladies and gentlemen. Look, the first thing I want to say is it looks like the government shutdown is going to happen. We don't know, maybe Congress will do something tomorrow. But the continuing resolution failed. And so I believe the deadline is Saturday. It looks like the government will shut down at least for a month. Who knows? While that story is very big, we actually were struggling with this being the big political story. Do we want to lead with this or something substantially more shocking and I think worrisome and that is A man went to the home of Nick Fuentes and it is apparent that he had the intention to kill him. And I guess only by sheer luck Nick survived. The individual had already killed three people, it is believed, and broke into a neighboring home and killed two dogs before being apprehended by the police. My understanding is the man lost his life in this conflict. But there is a video from Nick Fuentes's ring doorbell camera as well as the body camera footage being released from when this woman went to Nick's house. We had this conversation last night in the Members Only. Based on watching the body camera footage, it appears that Fuentes is 100% in the right in defending himself when this went down. Not that we like any of it, nor do we want any of this to happen, but especially now seeing this, this footage of a man walking up with a crossbow and what appears to be a bolt gun yelling yo, Nick. After having already killed several people. This is terrifying stuff. And the question now is, is this the Mangione effect? Now I wanna stress, Luigi Mangione is only accused. He's not been proven to have done anything. But with the open public support for assassination of perceived enemies, to see this attempt on Nick Fuentes life is actually rather terrifying. We are hoping and praying this stuff doesn't escalate. And as much as. Look, whatever you think about Fuentes, a lot of people don't like him. That's neither here, here, here nor there. The man is allowed to troll, he's allowed to have opinions, he's allowed to make jokes, he's allowed to be a nasty guy if that's what he wants to do. And he has a right to live in peace. Without this, this kind of nonsense happening, I'm gonna save it. We gotta talk about this. And of course the continuing resolutions failure. We also need to talk about the FAA shutting down airspace for drones in New Jersey threatening deadly force if they perceive an imminent threat. So this is gonna be wild. But before we get started, my friends, head over to cast brew.com and buy coffee a two weeks till Christmas available now. And when you buy a bag of two weeks till Christmas gingerbread Cast Brew coffee, you get this wonderful picture of Phil Labonte of all that remains as Santa Claus. Or would you call him Shredder Claws?

[Phil Labonte]

Shredder Claws. Yeah, Shredder Claw. Shreddy Claws.

[Luka Gradowski]

Shreddy Claws. There you go. Casper.com but also head over to Boonies HQ and pick up your right to arm bears skateboard. If you believe that large bears should be wearing flannel shirts, hats and carrying shotguns, then the right to arm bears skateboard is the skateboard for you. Some of them are quickly selling out. This has been a particularly popular board but of course we have step on snack and find out as well. We've sold like 600 of these boards is pretty wild. So you can check that out. Also go to timcast.com click join us. Become a member because with your membership you make this all possible. Really do mean it. You'll get access to our members only Discord server where you can hang out with like minded individuals. We will not be having a members only uncensored show because tomorrow, first thing in the morning we have to fly to Phoenix for Amfest. So forgive us but we will have a good show today because smash that like button. Subscribe to the channel. Joining us tonight to talk about this and everything else is Luke Beasley.

[Luke Beasley]

Good to be with you.

[Luka Gradowski]

Absolutely. Who are you? What do you do?

[Luke Beasley]

I am a liberal political commentator. Main platform is YouTube and I do this but from a different perspective.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right on. We, we, we we here at Tim Cast we're disparaging some of these other younger liberals before the show. But we like Luke because he has a good conversation. We were having a good conversation before and so I appreciate you being here. And then there's another Luke here.

[Tim Pool]

That's a good name. Welcome back beautiful and amazing human beings. My name is Luka Gradowski. Here we are. Change the drug. You're proud Florida and Polish man as of course things are crazy but they're also incredible. We're talking about getting rid of food dyes, seed oils, fluoride, the income tax as we're also going to be exposing Diddy. The Epstein list, as Twitter just showed it, to be more powerful than all the lobbyists in Washington D.C. this is an incredible time to be alive. It's great to be back here even though I'm dealing with some severe financial and legal problems. As of course you could go to SaveLow.com and check out what I'm doing. I'm selling limited edition hats for my lawyers. Yeah, they're great hats. There's only 100 of them. You can get them now. Save Luke now.com We appreciate your support but overall I'm still majorly white pilled. I'm very excited and I think we are in for a hell of a ride. And between now and January 20th, I think there's going to be scops upon scops. We're seeing a cornered intel agent go crazy right now and they're only going to go crazier in the next few days. So strap on.

[Eliyahu]

Wow, Luke, it's so nice to see you.

[Tim Pool]

My name is so good to see you too.

[Eliyahu]

I'm a field reporter and car neocon blood sucker over here at Tim Cast. It's good to be here Luke. It's good to see you both. Luke's.

[Luke Beasley]

It's.

[Eliyahu]

You guys look like you could be related. Both siblings or something. Phil, what's up?

[Phil Labonte]

Hello everybody. My name is Phil Labonte. I'm the lead singer of the heavy metal band all that Remains. I'm an anti communist and a counter revolutionary.

[Luka Gradowski]

Tim, actually Carter's here.

[Phil Labonte]

Oh, Carter's here for Serge.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think I might. No, I'm not muted. What's up?

[Phil Labonte]

So you said surge. Not one.

[Luka Gradowski]

I know, I know. Well, I figured it's apologizing. Whatever you know I'd love to be on the convo. Let's get into it as pressing the buttons. Okay man, let's. Let's start with this tweet from Nick Fuentes. There is video in fact Nick Fuentes tweeted at 2:05pm today. Last night an armed killer made an attempt on my life at my at my home which was recently doxed on this platform. The gunman carried a pistol, crossbow and incendiary devices. I believe he intended to kill me. He is now dead. I am okay. According to the police, the would be assassin committed a triple homicide in southern Illinois early yesterday before he arrived at my doorstep with his pistol drawn calling my name. I am grateful to God that I am still alive. Tragically, the gunman broke into a neighbor's home to evade police and killed two of their dogs. While heartbreaking, it could have been so unimaginably worse. God have mercy. Doxing is not a game. This nihilistic lynch mob behavior must end before anyone else is killed. I will now have to uproot, uproot my life and relocate while I can handle whatever comes to my front door. It is irresponsible to accept my neighbors with young families to share that burden. In the meantime, I will have to contract 24 hour security to protect myself and my property. If anybody would like to contribute to defray the cost, $13,000 a week. He ain't kidding. Of private security and rebuilding my studio. Here's a donation link. I can only accept cryptocurrency because I am banned from banking services and credit card processing. Thank you. Now we have the story from NBC 5 Chicago. They say far right influencer claims home was among those targeted by homicide suspect. It's actually very nuts that this how they're framing it. They say far right influencer Nick Fuentes said he believes his Berwin home was among those targeted by a man suspected in a triple homicide who was fatally shot by police late Wednesday night following a home invasion on Fuentes his block. Can you just look at that paragraph? So a guy who killed several people went to Nick's home with a weapon, calling out his name, then fled when the police arrived, broke into a house, killed two dogs and was killed by police. They're saying only Fuentes believes. I just want to let NBC 5 know there is no such thing as defaming the dead. You can just say what everyone is thinking. Now there is actually a video of this posted by Nick where the man is on his doorstep with a crossbow and would appear. I don't know if it's a pistol. They're saying it's a pistol. It could be a bolt type weapon with. I, I don't know. You guys might know better than me. Fuentes says the killer parked his car in front of my house and approached his my door with his pistol drawn and what appears to be a crossbow. I was live streaming at the time. He rings the doorbell, tries the knob and yells, yo, Nick, this is terrifying. Look, I'm just going to say what everybody's thinking. There's a lot of people who don't like Nick Fuentes, okay? And I don't want to get into this purity test of who Nick Fuentes is and what his opinions are because right now the issue is an individual who has opinions on the Internet and trolls. Someone tried to kill him. This is not okay. It's never okay. And we need this to de escalate. But my fear is that this would be the mangione effect.

[Tim Pool]

Nick's opinion doesn't matter here. It could be someone on the left and we would be acting the same way like we would be right now, as of course it is awful and horrible what happened right now. And sadly, you know, the left did lose politically and I've been warning about this, especially since Donald Trump won the presidential election. The left overwhelmingly doesn't have a lot of political solutions. They do overwhelmingly have a major mental health problem that predominantly a lot of people who believe in their larger ideology do suffer from. So this is something that I think has been in the works. I think the Manjoni effect is real. I think there's a reason he's being carried out like he's bane. I think there's a reason there's a lot of epithets and there's so much lore around this particular story as I believe there's a larger psyop happening gear in order to gaslight frame and to build up this larger notion that if you can't solve your problems politically, you could just do it physically. And that right there is somewhere where we have to put the stop on it immediately, call it out. And I don't care if it's Nick, I don't care if it's Rachel Maddow. This is something that you don't do and this is something that could desperately escalate the situation towards grand dangerous proportions that we don't want to be living in.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I was confused by some of the stuff you said, connecting to like left wing ideology. But I agree that regardless of who it is, regardless of how reprehensible I find Nick Fuentes, the solution is nonviolence. This is something I've articulated a lot in the wake of the assassination attempts against Trump to my audience, which is that if our principles, if our pro democratic liberal principles include nonviolent solutions to these things, then obviously people try and take violent solutions to disagreements is exactly against our principles.

[Luka Gradowski]

But that is the left.

[Luke Beasley]

What's the left?

[Luka Gradowski]

The use of. Use of violence.

[Luke Beasley]

How do you mean?

[Luka Gradowski]

So for instance, at all direct actions, they have something called the diversity of tactics, which is a direct reference to individuals left aligned, covering their faces and engaging in violence. So the Mangione effect, this is not a right wing phenomenon. It's not like bible thump conservatives Going around calling for death and murder. There are people selling products who are outright of progressive or left ideology advocating and celebrating and outright saying they want to engage in colonel relations with Li G Manguni.

[Luke Beasley]

So. And that's something I've been speaking out against among. It's hard to say my own side because I think we talked about this last time I was on. But. Or the episodes can come out tomorrow. It gets a little bit wacky if you just say you split the country into two sides and then any most extreme example you can find across the two sides, you portray as the entire side. Right. But I agree. People celebrating Mangione when obviously what he tried to do is not the solution to the very problem separate from just the individual immorality of trying to murder somebody. Even the people saying that's okay because of healthcare problems seem to misunderstand how we would even solve those more systemic issues. But I did make the point a bunch of times last time. Again on the episode that's coming out tomorrow. Sometimes we'll say in a general sense that regardless of political views, we all think violence would be wrong to solve those political views. But then it becomes a political point you're making like, oh, liberals, Democrats, that cohort of people, regardless of where they stand on this issue, they're a part of this ideological problem. And last time I was on. On I. We went over this, which is that political violence actually is far more common among.

[Luka Gradowski]

I would take issue.

[Phil Labonte]

I would take issue with saying Democrats because I don't feel like your run of the mill Democrats are the type of person that would be the. The type of people that. That Tim's referencing.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, yeah, but let's kind of make it like it's a left thing and even.

[Phil Labonte]

I'm on your side here, man. Hold on, let me get through my point, man. I'm on your side.

[Luka Gradowski]

You're both wrong.

[Luke Beasley]

That's not even.

[Luka Gradowski]

And you're both wrong.

[Tim Pool]

There's wanted posters for CEOs in New York City. There's people selling out cards of all these CEOs that are on their target hit list.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let's try. I mean, let's try something else.

[Luke Beasley]

Hear me though, that's wrong when. Wrong for people to do that.

[Luka Gradowski]

When was the last time you saw a right wing protest?

[Luke Beasley]

A right wing protest?

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, like right wingers going out and waving flags.

[Luke Beasley]

What I'm saying. But I'm. I'm saying when it's actually more thoroughly analyzed systemically, right wing ideologies are more responsible for political. Which doesn't make the instances of left wing political.

[Tim Pool]

Was that done by the FBI?

[Luka Gradowski]

No, no, no. Let's.

[Luke Beasley]

Let's just try based on actually independent groups.

[Luka Gradowski]

But what would you define as like a right wing ideology?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I mean, I think we can. Things that ideologically across the political spectrum are associated with the right wing.

[Luka Gradowski]

But what does that mean? Like you're saying right wing groups statistically are more likely to be violent. What does that mean?

[Luke Beasley]

No, like whenever they, whenever they study acts of violence that had a political motivation, it's more commonly by a pretty large margin, people who associated with right wing.

[Luka Gradowski]

And what. And what is a right wing idea?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, we could pull up the studies to specifically define it because I don't want to botch it. How would you define left wing violence?

[Luka Gradowski]

So in the United States it's actually interesting because right wing ideologies tend to just be disparate. So what does that really mean? Well, right can refer to anarcho capitalists, certainly don't agree with white supremacists. But in the media, in these studies you're referring to, they claim they're the same group.

[Luke Beasley]

But that's what I'm saying. Like if you have an anti government from a right wing perspective or super racist from a right wing perspective.

[Luka Gradowski]

So let's.

[Luke Beasley]

We're not gonna say that's. Now we can categorize all of the right as that. I wouldn't do that.

[Luka Gradowski]

But you can.

[Luke Beasley]

You'll do the same thing with the left which you say that a communist who wants to see a CEO killed is the same as someone who's just on the left.

[Luka Gradowski]

It is, yes.

[Luke Beasley]

Which is ridiculous.

[Luka Gradowski]

And I can.

[Luke Beasley]

You're playing into the very. Because then let me, let me know. But if you make that argument.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, you're. I can tell you what, I put.

[Luke Beasley]

People in danger in the very way that we're speaking out against here. Because you're saying those people who want violence are. Are an entire side now. Well, suppose I'm making distinguishment.

[Luka Gradowski]

We'll simplify it very easily. If a group of white supremacists and white nationalists were out protesting, anarcho capitalists would get into a fight with them. So these are two supposedly right wing groups.

[Luke Beasley]

That's the argument. And there are left wingers who get in fights with each other.

[Luka Gradowski]

Actually that's not true on left wing groups, as I've covered these protests for a decade. They have something called the diversity of tactics. So what you end up seeing, for instance, you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. So you have Liberals, no protesters. Okay then when you have, when you have liberals. So here's how it works and here's why you need to. Well, I mean maybe you don't wanna accept it. I don't care. When you get 300 run of the mill liberals who don't believe in violence, black bloc extremists. These are not a specific ideology. It could be anarcho left violent factions. It could be tankies specifically utilize those protests for body mass. It's in there. It's in their manifestos, it's in their, their, their, their meetings. And the liberal groups when they're organizing, shout out to your friend Lisa 5th and ask her about this. They tell the liberals respect the diversity of tactics. Now that is something that you don't see associated with right wing groups because.

[Luke Beasley]

You have like right wing militias exploit right wing protests for horrible. When we could find particular examples. I don't have.

[Luka Gradowski]

If you don't have them then, then I don't think you have an argument.

[Luke Beasley]

Or like an example. Would you say that? And I know someone over there is going to get triggered, but because it's such a prominent one that is on top of my head. You had people who were peacefully protesting on January six and then those who went violent. And I want to say that every single person who's MAGA now are representative.

[Luka Gradowski]

That's not what I'm saying at all.

[Luke Beasley]

It sort of is.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's because you didn't, you didn't have.

[Luke Beasley]

The peaceful people intervening to stop.

[Luka Gradowski]

You did actually violent people.

[Luke Beasley]

You did, you did. You actually didn't in any mean.

[Luka Gradowski]

You're wrong. You're completely wrong.

[Luke Beasley]

Obviously it was not a meaningful enough effort to even assist law enforcement.

[Luka Gradowski]

There's surveillance footage showing some of the men asking police what they can do to help.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm saying that there are left wing protesters as well who will be speaking out against violence at left wing protests. I know because of, so we can.

[Luka Gradowski]

We can talk about tendencies and Right. And so on the right you're going.

[Luke Beasley]

To make anecdotal arguments about things. You've covered a protest. And that's why I think last time.

[Luka Gradowski]

Too, my guy, Taylor Lorenz is not a progressive. It was like she's, she's a run of the mill progressive personality who said we all want more of that on tv.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, she was wrong. And I spoke out against her.

[Luka Gradowski]

So you are in the minority.

[Phil Labonte]

Maybe vice president wanted more of it.

[Luke Beasley]

What?

[Phil Labonte]

Kamala Harris wanted more. What? She said that people should be out in the streets she said that she would.

[Luke Beasley]

She was not saying violently, you know, that encouraging people to protest is different.

[Phil Labonte]

She was putting up her. So. So you can't just. Yeah, yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

That way.

[Luke Beasley]

That was just like how y'all. Again, you will do the same thing for January, six people and then say, but it's not for the violent ones.

[Tim Pool]

That's.

[Luke Beasley]

That was her argument.

[Phil Labonte]

The vice president was not putting up a bail.

[Luke Beasley]

What I'm saying that she was not doing that for people who would engage in violence.

[Luka Gradowski]

She absolutely wrong.

[Luke Beasley]

Who was getting arrested, all sorts of trespassing or something like that. No property related things.

[Luka Gradowski]

So. So that like for instance, two people who threw Molotov who were giving out Molotov cocktails in New York had their charges mostly reduced. Like reduced and nearly dropped.

[Luke Beasley]

So not dropped.

[Luka Gradowski]

So if.

[Luke Beasley]

If.

[Luka Gradowski]

So this is actually a really great quote from Kash Patel. If you are handing out Molotov cocktails, you're talking about federal terror charges and they reduce them to like parole. Like, that's shockingly insane.

[Luke Beasley]

And I would have, based on. If we went through the individual prosecution, probably disagreements with some of those prosecutor decisions. But I will say again, you'll go through. And this is really, to people's feelings, compelling to a lot of folks and cite particular examples to portray a narrative about the entire other side being violent. Right. But then we actually research it and it's not true right wing political violence.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's just.

[Luke Beasley]

It is.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's made up.

[Luke Beasley]

It's not. Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

You can't even name any.

[Luke Beasley]

I have research.

[Luka Gradowski]

Name an ideology and name an instance.

[Luke Beasley]

If someone would. You could.

[Tim Pool]

You're going to pull up the splc, you're going to pull up the FBI. You're going to pull up extremely biased studies that were done by biased organizations.

[Luka Gradowski]

That don't give a damn about. The point is this. The point is this. You cannot make an argument with no data.

[Luke Beasley]

No, the reason. Tell me I'm not the one who has access.

[Luka Gradowski]

You have a computer right there.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, I want your audience to see what I'm talking about.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, for sure. Give me a source. I'll pull it up.

[Luke Beasley]

All right, perfect. I think in the last. Are we still logged? In the last document I had here, one of y'all talk while I pull this up.

[Luka Gradowski]

Should we pull up like the ADL's Hate Tracker map or what do they have?

[Tim Pool]

That's a credible organization that doesn't lie for political purposes at all. Right. As well as the splc, as well as the FBI. That again, fudges data in order to come to a particular political conclusion for political reasons. You can't believe a lot of these top institutions since they lie through their teeth.

[Luke Beasley]

Can I send this?

[Tim Pool]

They even lied about the statistics about violent crime in America.

[Luke Beasley]

Department of Criminal Criminology and Criminal justice it's the ADL University of Maryland. And then just disparities in violence. Keywords Extremist groups.

[Luka Gradowski]

UML led study among violent extremist groups Is it this one?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

First of its kind. Look at left, right and Islamist extremists. Explore similarities and difference. New research led co led by University of Maryland CC JS professor Gary Lefree finds that some political extremist groups are more likely to commit violent acts than other others. A belief that's been increasingly questioned. On the rise of left wing extremist groups like Antifa and right wing extremist groups like the Proud Boys. There's been a strong presumption among many that while the left wing and right wing ideologies vary a great deal in content, they resemble each other in terms of their willingness to use violence to further their political agenda. However, our analysis shows the right wing actors are significantly more violent than left wing actors said Lafried, a professor in the Department of Criminology and Criminal justice and the founding director of the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism Responses. Responses to terrorism and responses to terrorism. So let's start with what. What do they define National Institute of Justice too.

[Luke Beasley]

When you're ready.

[Luka Gradowski]

What do they define as right wing?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, look and do it so.

[Luka Gradowski]

So this is an opinion article. What's.

[Luke Beasley]

How do they define reporting on a study they did?

[Luka Gradowski]

This is a press release.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, UMD led studies reporting.

[Luka Gradowski]

So let's, let's, let's start here.

[Luke Beasley]

Succinct for you.

[Luka Gradowski]

My argument is based on. Let's start with what an ideology is.

[Luke Beasley]

No, but see you keep going back to provocative examples of individual acts of violence. The reason when you start listing off instances. I know because I've been in these debates before how people react when I give you particular examples it becomes about that example and see that's the only thing that you could bring up or whatever. I don't want to do that. I would rather just make it about the data. Let's analyze level headed and let's also acknowledge this disagreement doesn't take away from opposing individual.

[Luka Gradowski]

What left aligned groups do is say that everything outside of us is right wing. And then there you're just asserting that.

[Luke Beasley]

Without any data at all or any.

[Luka Gradowski]

I just asked you how you define right wing and you couldn't do it.

[Luke Beasley]

I want to make sure that we're accurate to the studies that I'm referring to. You have a report on it that I'm sure helps to specify that and if you would peanut some effort journal we're misdefining types of violence then I'd love to explore that.

[Eliyahu]

I think there might be a little bit of missing the forest for the trees here. Although I would say in the study earlier it said Islamist protests might be responsible for more violence than left or right protests.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think we're actually does it far and wide have received the most research and policy attention single especially single after the deadly attacks, blah blah, blah. I mean that's, that's not surprising.

[Eliyahu]

I think we're coming on a culture of people and extremists that who would be okay with political violence and we're seeing this kind of culture of assassinations come up I think more and more in our culture.

[Tim Pool]

But just really quick, can you name any other political violence on the right other than J6?

[Luke Beasley]

He just listed off a bunch of examples.

[Eliyahu]

I listed a couple of groups. The three.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let me just do this again.

[Luke Beasley]

I almost.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this.

[Luke Beasley]

I almost had a prince.

[Luka Gradowski]

Here's, here's how they, how they. Here's how it's defined. This is the ADL's heat map tracker for violent extremism. Right wing, white supremacy, right wing, white supremacist, neo Nazism, right wing, anti government, right wing, other Islamist left wing, right wing, anti government, right wing, political unknown other. Where's left wing anti government? It's not, it's not affection. Why. Why is white supremacy and anti government both considered the same thing?

[Luke Beasley]

Oh they're. No, no. But left wing only has one category. You could maybe hover over the I to get more information but it's specifying between the different types of right wing.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, white supremacy and anti government are two totally different things. And left left wingers can be anti government too.

[Luke Beasley]

Of course. Of course.

[Luka Gradowski]

So then why call anti government right wing?

[Luke Beasley]

Well like if there's an anti government leftist who attacks a right winger for a political reason, that would be categorized under left wing violence.

[Luka Gradowski]

So right wing. What defines someone who is then anti government solely? Why would that be labeled as right wing? And how do you, how do you determine whether who's anti.

[Luke Beasley]

There are right wing anti government ideologies. Right. That are of a right wing nature.

[Luka Gradowski]

What does that mean, right wing nature?

[Luke Beasley]

Like if you have a left wing libertarian versus a right wing libertarian. Does that mean there's differences I'm gonna botch if I start defining?

[Luka Gradowski]

Well, if you don't know, what are you arguing?

[Luke Beasley]

No, I'm arguing that the only research we have bolsters refutation of what percentage of professor's ideology. But you could absolutely.

[Luka Gradowski]

What percentage of professors are liberals? A bunch, 95.

[Luke Beasley]

A bunch?

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't know, 95. So this is the problem we have. Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

What is going on?

[Luka Gradowski]

Let me explain it to you.

[Phil Labonte]

So you're just like he's asking you a question.

[Luka Gradowski]

Asking a question.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I get that. I'm not a master on how these studies methodology don't know. But your only evidence is I saw some violence.

[Luka Gradowski]

Hold on, that's sophistry. I didn't say my only evidence was me making a.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, so then what? Something not anecdotal that substantiates your argument.

[Luka Gradowski]

Which portion of my argument? What are you talking about?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, so instead of just individually as I'm doing. Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let's go to this violence.

[Luke Beasley]

You're making a lot of left wing.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let's go to like the RNC protest in 2008 where a bunch of guys got arrested for having firebombs. They were left wing individuals. The way that was organized was that the moderate good Democrats that you're referring to intentionally organized what they call green zone, yellow zone, red zone. The red zone actors were people who are intending on using extreme, extreme violence, including lethal force. And they needed the green zone individuals to provide the mass bodies to hide from police. I'll give an example from something. So that's an actual incident that occurred again. And so this is. I'm a regular old Democrat, I'm not far left, I'm not a socialist. I'm coming to protest Republicans doing it again.

[Luke Beasley]

That's just a random example. I don't get caught up in individual provocative anecdotes. I would just like to look at a level headed, zoomed out, data based argument.

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, so the problem we have here is that when you pull up the sources, you claim there are no conservative sources countering left wing sources.

[Luke Beasley]

I mean. Okay, then that's an interesting argument.

[Luka Gradowski]

So if you can't define what any data.

[Luke Beasley]

Stop it. If I stop what?

[Luka Gradowski]

Define it. Define it. If I stop, stop, stop. Define right wing.

[Luke Beasley]

If I took the time to properly write out a definition of a right wing ideology, I could present that to you.

[Luka Gradowski]

I can.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't want to get it wrong. And so I'm not gonna throw something out that I didn't know I was going to define right wing, but what I do know, you don't know, is that your argument of literally saying any data that I disagree with is too liberal is like, all right, I heard that about crime increasing. I heard that about everything.

[Luka Gradowski]

You're misrepresenting my argument. My argument is right. Now, I have pulled up the ADL as a source in your favor. However, it has six. Six categories of right wing and one of left wing. Now how does that make sense? How can we quantify an ideology? If there are six versions of right wing, which one is actually the right wing? And how come left is one parent organization? I would actually argue the ADL sides with me in saying left wing encompasses all of it. That means if you're a democrat, a progressive, a communist, a tanky, an anarchist, any action you take is left wing and it's all the same ideology. Is that the ADL's argument here?

[Luke Beasley]

Well, maybe that in its categorization is an easier way if, if you're a part of any of those left wing ideologies, it's less differentiated.

[Luka Gradowski]

So it's fair to say on a.

[Luke Beasley]

Political spectrum, whenever they're studying it so that you're. There's like more unique organizations that specify differently.

[Luka Gradowski]

So you as a left wing individual, are part of the same ideology as the people who want to murder CEOs.

[Luke Beasley]

As much as someone who's right wing anti government because they're a libertarian is a part of an anti government libertarian who attacks a cop.

[Phil Labonte]

Libertarians aren't any government.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, look, at my point, I'm saying that even within the subcategorizations, I'm not going to say any right winger who's anti government is violent.

[Luka Gradowski]

So, so the, the point is you.

[Luke Beasley]

Want me to read your definition because you really wanted it of right wing. She Googled it.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let's get it.

[Luke Beasley]

All right. Right wing ideology encompasses a broad range of political beliefs and values that prioritize tradition, hierarchy, individualism, and limited role of government in certain spheres of life. The term right wing originates from the seating arrangements in the French Revolution's Legislative assembly where conservatives sat on the right side.

[Luka Gradowski]

So is Nick Fuentes right wing?

[Luke Beasley]

Then he would be really, really, really far right.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, but he's not an individualist.

[Luke Beasley]

What?

[Luka Gradowski]

He's not an individual.

[Luke Beasley]

I didn't say exclusively individualism.

[Luka Gradowski]

So let's go for it again.

[Luke Beasley]

So it starts with a broad range of political beliefs, just like how on the left there's a broad range of political beliefs. I think communists are stupid, but they're on the far left.

[Luka Gradowski]

So what's the difference between the collectivist right and the collectivist left?

[Luke Beasley]

Tell me.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm asking, based on your definition.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I'm asking you. You're the one who brought it up.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you not know? This is something I talk about on the show literally every single day. And the question is, do you know what you're talking about? Can you answer it, yes or no?

[Luke Beasley]

Do I know what I'm talking about? With the distinguishment of the government being left collectivism versus right collectivism, I think left wing.

[Luka Gradowski]

What distinguishes Nick Fuentes from Antifa again?

[Luke Beasley]

Tell me. I think you have a great explanation.

[Luka Gradowski]

I certainly do. I'm wondering, as you've made an argument, if you know what you're talking about.

[Luke Beasley]

How does that connect my argument?

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you know the difference between various ideologies among the right and the left? You've not been able to define it?

[Luke Beasley]

Actually, no. I would say I'm not a master in the distinguishments between different ideologies within a side.

[Luka Gradowski]

Then how can you claim the right is more violent?

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, how can you claim the left is more violent?

[Luka Gradowski]

Because I know many of these are factions. And your observations from my field reporting expertise and the reading of the research.

[Luke Beasley]

Well then what research?

[Luka Gradowski]

So if we distinguish, say anarcho libertarian, anarcho communism, anarcho syndicalism, we can talk about tankies, we can talk about social liberals, we can talk about traditional liberals, and we can talk about the political strategies used by each of these groups. And we can talk about how they've operated over the past 20 years. A combination of news reports, political studies and field reporting from my personal experience.

[Luke Beasley]

Right.

[Luka Gradowski]

And I'm talking about right wing groups. I can do the exact same thing as I've done this on the ground as well in many different countries. My question for you is if you're going to assert the right is more likely to be violent because you read a press release from the University of Maryland. I'm asking you to define which groups.

[Luke Beasley]

Dug and I dug and I could not find any research even that came from a right wing institution that gave.

[Luka Gradowski]

Over the cross of which right wing institution?

[Luke Beasley]

I'm saying I couldn't find one.

[Luka Gradowski]

I agree. You can't find a right wing institution that tracks.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, there are right wing institutions that do studies and stuff.

[Luka Gradowski]

They don't track this. So maybe because this is studied.

[Luke Beasley]

Do you see what's happening though?

[Luka Gradowski]

You haven't done the research and so.

[Luke Beasley]

You'Re saying apparently you haven't even less than Me? Sheesh.

[Luka Gradowski]

I have, what, 20 years of field.

[Luke Beasley]

Reporting on the ground, and every single time you come back to give me substance, bro. That's what I'm asking you. I'm saying I don't know. Caught up, especially, like. Let me give you another example. Crime has been going down. I could go find instances of cr. Of crimes taking place.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right?

[Tim Pool]

The FBI lied about that. That crime is not going down. They actually altered and admitted those statements. Not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Crime didn't go down. It's not even actually went up.

[Luka Gradowski]

You know the FBI revised the 2022.

[Luke Beasley]

Now 2023 and 2024.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right?

[Luke Beasley]

We're seeing a really good trend on that front.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you know why? Do you know why in 2022 it.

[Luke Beasley]

Was not a huge revision?

[Luka Gradowski]

You know why homicide is down?

[Luke Beasley]

Tell me.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm asking you. Not just.

[Luke Beasley]

You're the one bringing up these questions. Homicides are down because less homicides are happening.

[Luka Gradowski]

You're wrong.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, go for it. Tell me they're categorized different or something.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, it's because of cell phones and.

[Tim Pool]

Improvements in medical technology as well, and emergency rooms that have been able to make people.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, no, no, no. How does that. Wait, that's dying. That's good.

[Luka Gradowski]

Who did say it was bad?

[Phil Labonte]

There aren't violence.

[Luka Gradowski]

Dude, dude, dude, dude. I like.

[Luke Beasley]

Crimes at large are down over the last few years.

[Eliyahu]

I think it's. Crime is down, but violent crime is down.

[Luke Beasley]

Violent crime. Pull it up. Pull it up. Violent crime is down. Even with the revision 2022, you have 2023, 24.

[Luka Gradowski]

The reason why I'm not going to argue with the violent crime thing is, is crime has generally gone down. And I'm not here to argue it. The point I'm trying to make is you have a surface level, tepid view of a lot of these things.

[Luke Beasley]

Your view of political violence is a bunch of stories. And wanting me to cite specific stories of right wing attacks, that's just not interesting because that's not how we analyze data.

[Luka Gradowski]

It just means. It just means you're a credentialist and you don't know.

[Luke Beasley]

Like, I just gave you another good example that y'all do a lot. Fox News will run all these provocative stories of crimes taking place that gives me no information, no insight as to.

[Luka Gradowski]

The actual broader what to do with Fox News.

[Luke Beasley]

I just use it as an example.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, but don't say y'all and talk about Fox News.

[Eliyahu]

Is there a specific story you're talking about? It sounds like you're alluding to Lake And Riley, or when you say that specifically, like Fox News is running with these, these stories that don't depict an accurate, you know, representation of what's going on in the world.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I mean, no. Just stories about crimes happening. There was a lot of focus for.

[Luka Gradowski]

A lot of people. Let me, let me tell you why the cell, why I should cover it.

[Luke Beasley]

But they never contextualize it with here's the broader crime data.

[Luka Gradowski]

The reason why I asked you the cell phone question is that when you have people who do surface level stuff, you'll listen to a YouTuber say all Fox News is doing is pulling up a story of an individual murder and then acting like it's out of control. That's something I refer to as a scaling problem. We know this as social media exacerbates knowledge of issues, making us feel like it's more likely to be occurring when it's actually not. So I have no problem saying that violent crime is down. There's a bunch of different institutions that argue like I think shoplifting has gone way up. So in some areas it shows that crime is up, but then violent crime is down. Some people say that's the crime that really matters. The cell phone point is actually really important because when you laugh at it, you seem confused by it. We're talking about multi order.

[Luke Beasley]

I was confused why you would bring. I know that technological advancements impacts either crime in general or how long point is this reacts to it or how medical professionals do. I just was laughing that you brought that up. As if to refute my point about how anecdotes of crime doesn't debunk broader crime.

[Luka Gradowski]

Now I asked you about the cell phone thing because people who are single order thinkers don't can't comprehend how something like a cell phone means homicide is down.

[Luke Beasley]

Actually, I can comprehend it.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's actually really simple. Although there are still stabbings, although there are still shootings, the fact that we can call 911 right away means the person is less likely to die. So you'll end up with a larger amount of attempted murders and aggravated robberies, but less homicides because people survive.

[Luke Beasley]

Phones haven't changed that much in between when Trump left office and when. I'm not talking about that has been in office.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm talking about the general trend decline since the 2000s till today.

[Luke Beasley]

A lot of contributors, that's one of them.

[Luka Gradowski]

Cell phones is the biggest contributor. It's actually rather surprising people don't think about these things. Like one of the things that we think as to why crime has gone down is the removal of lead from gasoline. And then you might have someone be like, well how does that happen? It's like, well, lead was actually frying people's brains in the air. And so to bring it all back, like with like the Nick Fuentes story and all that stuff, we take a look at the body of body politic. 20 years. How many right wing protests have there been over 20 years?

[Eliyahu]

Depends how you define protest. But many. I mean especially during the, the pandemic, there were a lot of right anti.

[Phil Labonte]

Lockdown protests over the past 20 years. You had the Tea Party protests.

[Eliyahu]

Tea party protests there too. It depends on how you define it too. Like there's some militias out there. There are three.

[Luka Gradowski]

And here. And herein lies the problem.

[Eliyahu]

Proud boy type groups.

[Luka Gradowski]

And this is the problem with institutionalized left right dichotomy. The American colloquial right has nothing to do with white supremacists or anti government or, or sovereign citizen movements. Literally nothing. However, the mainstream liberal Democrat position incorporates these groups in some degree into their facets, notably in their protests and in their body politic. So when we say aoc, for instance, is aligned with the left, or how about this? Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren both said violence is wrong. No one should be doing this. It's horrible. But people can only push so far. As if to imply the health care CEO actually took an action that warranted the anger of people to be happy that he died. The right doesn't have that.

[Luke Beasley]

So they do.

[Luka Gradowski]

So the Republican Party does not have.

[Luke Beasley]

Like why for months was Paul Pelosi mocked for having his head bashed?

[Luka Gradowski]

Being mocked is different from advocating for killing.

[Eliyahu]

And respectfully, to January 6th was a.

[Luka Gradowski]

Big yes, quite literally.

[Luke Beasley]

I think it's accept. You think it's not encouraging political violence to laugh when it happens to your opponents?

[Luka Gradowski]

No.

[Luke Beasley]

What about wanting to.

[Luka Gradowski]

I have no problem.

[Luke Beasley]

You're six writer.

[Luka Gradowski]

I have no problem with the left laughing when someone right is injured. I have no problem when the right laughs on someone on the left.

[Luke Beasley]

I know that's not true.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think it's.

[Luke Beasley]

We pulled up a.

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, the left and the right. Nobody should be mocking anybody.

[Luke Beasley]

Obviously Trump is sending a message that such violence is not as bad as the left wants you to believe. If he's going, ooh, you know, whatever he said about. And the lies that were spread about it was a gay affair or something that's obviously trying to.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's very, very different from saying that the CEO of a healthcare company warrant did something to warrant the anger towards him, like the call for his murder. That's very.

[Luke Beasley]

First of all, I don't necessarily agree with that argument, but also for me, I'm just gonna be principled across the board because I'm also against that.

[Luka Gradowski]

Did Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren say people can only push so far?

[Luke Beasley]

I'm sure they said something to that effect. If you're bringing it up.

[Luka Gradowski]

What did the health care CEO do to warrant anger that. What did they do that pushed people so far that they would be advocating for their murder?

[Luke Beasley]

I'm not going to make an argument that I don't believe in.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm not saying you should argue for.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm saying, tell me.

[Luka Gradowski]

Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren said murder is wrong. I'm paraphrasing. But you can only push people so far. That statement means the health care CEO did something that warrants people calling for their death.

[Luke Beasley]

I'd love to see the clip if you want me to break it down.

[Eliyahu]

Well, what they're alluding to is that the failure of the health care industries are responsible for their deaths, and therefore they are murderers.

[Luke Beasley]

And what I'm trying to explain to members of my own side, because I'm principled.

[Luka Gradowski]

And you can only. Elizabeth Warren said you can only push people so far. I mean, right there.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. And so then I would say bad.

[Luka Gradowski]

Elizabeth Warren, but that's, she's, she's mainstream, like liberal. She's, she's, she's a prominent. Is there.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm not hearing that she, she's not advocating for Biden to pardon. Luigi.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, no. But I'm saying, is there, you know.

[Luke Beasley]

Who, who is going to pardon violence?

[Luka Gradowski]

Chuck Schumer say anything like that?

[Luke Beasley]

Did Trump say he's going to pardon.

[Eliyahu]

He's going to pardon violent people.

[Luke Beasley]

January 6th, the assault. He specifically got asked about those who attack police officers. He said yes.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah. So how long do you want to.

[Eliyahu]

Run through the Biden pardons and go through.

[Luke Beasley]

Let me ask you a question, but do you see the distinguishment? I agree there are going to be people on our respective sides we disagree with. Yours happens to be the leader. Well, I don't know how you identify necessarily, but yours would be the guy on your, your.

[Luka Gradowski]

How long.

[Luke Beasley]

Your entire movement.

[Luka Gradowski]

If someone attacked a cop, how long should they go to jail for?

[Luke Beasley]

I don't know. A while.

[Luka Gradowski]

What's a while?

[Tim Pool]

Four years.

[Luke Beasley]

Totally depends on the details of the assault.

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, so they took it. They took a cop shield from him and bashed him on the head with it.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm not going to give you a specific answer? I would have to look into the guidelines. Prosecutorially, I'd have to look at other.

[Luka Gradowski]

So then you literally have no opinion on Trump's pardons, then?

[Luke Beasley]

What?

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm saying that Trump is pardoning people on January 6th who are violent, attacked.

[Luke Beasley]

Cops, and some of them, they've been.

[Luka Gradowski]

In jail for three years.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay.

[Luka Gradowski]

How long should they be in prison for?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I'd have to look at the individual cases. What some of them wanted to overthrow the government. So that would add.

[Luka Gradowski]

That would mean you're neutral on Trump's pardon, then?

[Luke Beasley]

No, because I think that the prosecutors who brought these cases then brought them in front of a jury and got conviction should be respected. Just like how I don't think that Biden should have pardoned his son. And even though these cases are far more serious, but I think those outcomes should be respected because I respect the justice more serious.

[Luka Gradowski]

And so my, my point is this. If you don't have a thought on how long they should be in prison, it's fine.

[Luke Beasley]

What you do a lot.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's fine to say, like, we don't know how the problem.

[Luke Beasley]

Your argument fails. You're just gonna ask hyper specific, slightly irrelevant questions to me.

[Luka Gradowski]

How is it irrelevant about.

[Luke Beasley]

Because I don't think it's relevant for me to figure out because I didn't sit in these courtrooms and listen to the details of every case exactly how long each one should.

[Luka Gradowski]

How could you advocate for someone to be in jail if you don't know?

[Luke Beasley]

Well, I can tell you. You. Because Trump is saying we should subvert that process because he thinks what they did was patriotic and should then pardon them.

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't. Has he specifically said it was patriotic to do that?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I mean, he like, salutes to that song they sang every single.

[Luka Gradowski]

Well, like, is there a quote where Trump said that January 6th people who attacked cops was patriotic?

[Luke Beasley]

I genuinely, because I want to be fully honest, I will say I'm almost 100% certain he said that at some.

[Luka Gradowski]

Point that the people who attacked the police and were violent were acting patriotic.

[Luke Beasley]

Not in that order, but that I'm paraphrasing January 6th. Yeah. Defendant. And then as we dive more specifically.

[Luka Gradowski]

Into that, I think if you're on the left or the right and you attack a cop, depending on the severity of the attack. Like if we're talking about you're at a riot and you punch a cop or shove them, six months to a year is probably good.

[Phil Labonte]

NPR just reported on the 12th that President Biden commutes descendants for 1500 people. Some say he could do a lot more. 1500 people?

[Luka Gradowski]

No, but he already said that was wrong. That's fine.

[Luke Beasley]

No, not all those. I was saying Hunter Biden.

[Eliyahu]

Look, do you feel as though more Democrats were willing to justify the BLM riots than Republican elected officials were to condemn January six?

[Luke Beasley]

Well, interestingly, a lot of the. I will answer the left wing in a second. But a lot of the Republican politicians just changed their position. So initially, it was like, unanimously, that was bad. Now almost all of them apologize for what happened that day. And we all, as I was explaining one of the times here, just we all miss the broader danger of trying to block the peaceful transfer of power that led up January 6th. Wasn't the whole thing. That was the ending, and that was more individuals. But Trump's effort to prevent Biden from coming to office is what I really take issue with. But, no, now a bunch of Republicans apologize for it, which is terrible. And then Democrats.

[Eliyahu]

But the question was specifically for the Democrats.

[Luke Beasley]

And then. And then. I couldn't tell you any Democrats who were convicted. My guess would be that more Republicans have apologized for the violence on January 6, then Democrats. But let me get to the caveat then. Democrats who apologize for violence during blm, very limited. They would all say violence is bad, but the cause was.

[Eliyahu]

It's a. It's the. It's the voice of the unheard. Like mlk, remember?

[Luke Beasley]

But then I'd get to. I think it's a fair criticism to say maybe some were too quiet about the violence. Like, none of them were out there saying, this is fine.

[Eliyahu]

Well, they were taking a knee. They were taking a knee. Many of them, Nancy Pelosi. And they were.

[Luke Beasley]

They would show up to a peaceful protest, and then a part of that, people would be exploiting Maxine Waters with.

[Phil Labonte]

The whole, you have to go find them in restaurants and you have to get up their face.

[Luke Beasley]

Like, that's not direct, that's encouraging.

[Luka Gradowski]

Here's two phrases for you. Respect the diversity of tax tactics. And snitches keep bringing that up. And snitches get stitches there.

[Luke Beasley]

What?

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, no.

[Eliyahu]

But then Kamala Harris also was posting a bill for BLM rioters, and it's just weird.

[Luke Beasley]

Y'all are the ones supporting the politicians who say this. Like Trump.

[Luka Gradowski]

Say what?

[Luke Beasley]

Who justify violence.

[Luka Gradowski]

Why did Trump justify violence?

[Luke Beasley]

I thought we just went through that.

[Luka Gradowski]

We didn't. I asked you for examples and you said, I don't know, just screamed at me. Tell me what you think.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I'm.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's like whenever you don't have an answer, you just get confused and say, what are you talking about?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I'm genuinely confused.

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, let's try this again.

[Luke Beasley]

To me, because obviously, if I ask.

[Luka Gradowski]

You a question and you just don't answer and then you go sophistry, because.

[Luke Beasley]

I only speak ad hominem. I only speak on. I have an ad hominem. How many.

[Luka Gradowski]

All you're doing is saying, you do this, you do that, you do this. You're not actually giving me substance.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, no, no, I. No, I was. I was saying I was just shocked that you didn't listen to my substance earlier, but I was.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

So the January six, while I'm only going to speak on things I'm very informed on, so I'm not going to tell you exactly to the month that they should get. I do respect the fact that they were prosecuted in a court of law. And I don't think Trump to send a message to his base that would happen on January six was good, which is why he would do such a pardon. Should be pardoning folks who were violent. Or. Or.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think three years is long enough.

[Luke Beasley]

And that's a wrong stance. But.

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, how is it wrong?

[Luke Beasley]

I just explained it to you.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, no, no, no, you didn't. You said the court process should play out the way it is. My opinion on the amount of time should be served for a crime is not just wrong. Because you like courts.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, I get that. To explain that.

[Luka Gradowski]

Why the time frame I'm asserting is should be longer than three years.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, I'm saying the default. You have to have overwhelming, compelling evidence that someone has been wronged to justify a president stepping in and saying, I'm subverting the justice system outcome. Does that. Do you agree with that premise?

[Phil Labonte]

No, that's a moral.

[Luka Gradowski]

So, yeah, you're making a fascist argument.

[Luke Beasley]

A fascist argument.

[Luka Gradowski]

You are making the fascist argument that the hierarchical structure of government is just and should be upheld regardless why.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, I'm not gonna ask that.

[Luka Gradowski]

This is right. And so the system we have is.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm just not loving. And this is a way of celebrating violence that Trump is celebrating those. As far as a pardon and in his rhetoric and in his national anthem thingy, people who attacked the Capitol, why did they attack it? Because they believe lies about the election.

[Luka Gradowski]

There's a variety of reasons why people were violent on January 6, largely that they believe the election was like, hey, that's bad.

[Luke Beasley]

You don't have to keep going.

[Luka Gradowski]

I've called for their Arrest and prosecution like this is not a shock to my audience.

[Eliyahu]

My reporting is responsible for the arrest A couple of January.

[Luka Gradowski]

My point is that if you've got someone on a misdemeanor charge who's been held without trial, a pardon makes perfect sense. Unless you're a fascist. And the system is just so. It's like Benjamin Franklin who said, it is better that 100 guilty persons escape than one innocent person suffer. You've taken the Otto von Bismarck approach of it is better that 10 innocent people suff than one guilty person escape.

[Luke Beasley]

No.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, well, okay. You have no right. So people. No, no, no. Stop, stop. You don't know anything about these January six cases. You don't know why these people are in jail. You don't know that a man is in Brooklyn right now for three years without charge or trial. And when Donald Trump says these people have been held for too long, you say, no, Trump is wrong. Keep them locked up. That's fucking fascist. Dude, You. You have sit here. You have. You've been sitting here with no knowledge of the specifics of some of these cases. There is a man in Brooklyn right now. I'm going to say it again. Whatsoever brought, and he's been in jail for three fucking years. For you to sit there and say it is good that he remains locked up is fascism. That is saying the hierarchy, the hierarchical system of the courts and the government is just and the process is all that matters. And I am saying perhaps three years is enough because I actually have moral logic and an understanding of these cases. Hence my position on January 6th has always been the people who have attacked police must go to prison. But three years is a fucking long time for assault on an officer. We have seen people in the far left, notably when they were firebombing shit all across Minnesota, 33 people murdered. And how many criminal charges do we get for this? When they firebombed a police station and forced the police to evacuate on May 29, 2020, when thousands of far leftists firebombed the White House grounds and set fire to St. John's Church and injured 100 police officers. How many fucking people went to prison for three years? How many of them who never showed up on that day are in prison for 20 years? Enrique Tarrio wasn't even in D on January 6th. And you are saying that man who only his only crime was, quote, don't leave. That's his only crime. You think he should be in prison for 20 years because you're a fascist? You don't care what the facts are. You don't care if this is unjust. You only care that the machine state has decreed you are not to be locked up. And this is the problem I have with the left. They don't know the facts. They don't care about the facts. They view morality as a blanket government stroke of the pen and every person, regardless of their crime, should be in prison for decades. I reject it outright. The people who fought cops should go to prison. They did. It's been three years. But when you've got people who are on misdemeanor charges for having walked into a building at 4pm after the riot, and I know some of these people, they walked into a building for two minutes and walked out and they got 18 months for that. I don't see you defending the innocent people who walked onto a public grass at a public building after a riot had been completed. You don't know. You don't care. You have taken a tribal position and people are suffering because of it. Now you say that Donald Trump saying the injustice that we've seen warrants commutation or pardons. You say that means he's advocating for violence. This is the ultimate problem. Then you cite a press release from Maryland saying, but the right's more violent. There is a distinction between a white supremacist as a right wing group and a run of the mill Christian conservative who showed up on that day not to protest. Let's talk about Brandon Strzok. He never went in the building. He was on the other side of the building. There was a permanent protest. He walked up the stairs and he was yelling, they put this guy in prison. There was Owen Schroyer, who was at a permanent rally, who was yelling, death to communists. They put him in prison and specifically cited his speech. My dude, you don't know what you're talking about. And it's fine, I get it. We try to be polite, we try to be nice. But there are so many young liberals who sit here and say, the corporate press told me that these people are bad and the machine state government has decreed it by pen. So I don't care what crime they committed. I don't care what the jury says. I don't care who was on the jury. Enrique Tarrio, who was not there, should be in prison for two decades. Tell me this now, why is Enrique Tarrio in prison?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. So they undercut or uncovered with him his plot to overthrow the government.

[Phil Labonte]

Enrique Torres?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. And his organization.

[Luka Gradowski]

What plot? Who's they? Give me some prosecutors. Give me Some fucking data. Stop. Stop squinting at me and saying the prosecutors did a thing you didn't know. You didn't read it. You didn't read the court papers. All you know is the fascist machine state told you he should be in prison. And you're saying yes to that. Tell me why.

[Luke Beasley]

I understand that laws on the books have been there for a long time. That I agree with that if it's proven that you had a plan and you wanted to act on it days after Proof. The proof.

[Luka Gradowski]

Say the proof.

[Luke Beasley]

Communications between.

[Luka Gradowski]

What communications? What did he say? What did he do?

[Luke Beasley]

Are you. Is this serious?

[Luka Gradowski]

Are you going to tell me why you think Enrique Tario should be in prison for 20 years? Or are you going to say the government decreed it? I just explained to you so the government said so. Is that it?

[Luke Beasley]

It's usually law enforcement, which I guess is part of the government.

[Luka Gradowski]

Government said so.

[Luke Beasley]

Yep, Law enforcement that uncovers evidence of communications. A memo that he crafted and sent to his organization.

[Luka Gradowski]

Saying what?

[Luke Beasley]

That detailed each institution of government that they were going to try to overthrow. Then just days later, his organization is at the Capitol.

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't think we can even pull up Enrique Tario.

[Phil Labonte]

I'm not quite sure that there's any evidence of that sort.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, you know what? I'll say this. The idea that Enrique Tario crafted a memo outlining okay. Or they three months featured witness evidence of juditario and co defense included videos, thousands of matches and encrypted chat groups. As well as a public message on parlor honor before January 6th. Taro to convene a ministry of self defense to coordinate Proud boys leadership on January 6th. The chat show that Chario stationed in Baltimore tell encouraged the Proud Boys as they attacked the Capitol. Let's figure out what that encouragement was. Are they going to actually say in the article? So here's a citation. Proud Boy and three other members of the fire groups were convicted Thursday and applied to attack the Capitol. A jury in Washington D.C. found Tario and three lieutenants guilty of seditious conspiracy of hearing dozens of witnesses. Jurors cleared a fifth defendant. Dominic. Dominic Pizzola and citizen charge. And a significant milestone of the Justice Department which has now secured a conspiracy. Blah, blah, blah. They will never stop. Okay, that's interesting. Wikipedia asserts that they did this, but there's actually nothing in the news article that actually states that is true. Well, now we got a problem. Let's try this again. Let's try a secondary source. Let's see. There it is. They introduced evidence that Tarrio discussed with associates a plan to have a large crowd in Washington storm government buildings in a scheme they called 1776 returns, in which the Winter palace was used as an apparent code for the US Capitol. In a message, he said, make no mistake, we did this. Do what must be done. And he directed the proud boys to do it again. So the question then becomes, in the.

[Luke Beasley]

Bigger picture, so are you gonna at all acknowledge that you just blew up over something that I was absolutely citing fairly?

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't think you cited it fairly.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't think. I think people should be prosecuted for engaging in plans to overthrow our government. That's kind of.

[Phil Labonte]

That's very. That's a very. That's a very loose definition of plans to overthrow the government. Government.

[Luke Beasley]

Y'all don't seem to be that informed.

[Eliyahu]

Wait, look, respectfully, I cover a lot of protests, of riots. A lot of people try to protest and write ins and occupy government buildings. Do you think that qualifies as trying to, what is it? Overthrow your government?

[Luke Beasley]

No.

[Eliyahu]

Okay, good.

[Luke Beasley]

So, I mean, but if they had a plan to take control of the government, which was this one, if this.

[Tim Pool]

Was an actual plan, this was the least, leastly most over the government ridiculous plan ever. They went after people for having Lego sets of the capital. I mean, the level of political prosecution. Would you. Would you even admit that there was some level of politics when it came to the prosecution of the J6ers? Would you say politics played a. Played?

[Luke Beasley]

Because I'm engaging with this as thoughtfully as possible, not trying to grandstand. Of course, often for very justifiable reasons, prosecutors will try to make an example of someone who, for example, tried to overthrow the government to prevent the peaceful transfer power. I see why I such a thing.

[Phil Labonte]

Personally, I reject.

[Luke Beasley]

Categorized as sedition. Overthrow the government would be uniquely bad to prosecutors and political in that this all involved politics. Right. And thus.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm sorry, I have to. I have to say this. The Wikipedia article making those claims is not citing any actual proof that they said those things.

[Eliyahu]

Because we're harping on these. These pardons. Pardons are obviously an interesting political constitutional quirk that presidents are able to. Able to do that. It really does undermine the law in our country. But Biden's getting a lot of pushback for clemency that he granted for the. The CA kids judge who is responsible for sending something like 2,000 children into a Pennsylvania jail, a private prison that he was getting kickbacks for. Do you think that was worse than any pardon Donald Trump could give to any January 6th rider. What have you heard of this judge that Joe Biden granted clemency for A judge who was responsible for sending thousands of teenagers to prison for, you know, otherwise misdemeanor charges while he was getting kickbacks for Joe Biden was getting a lot of. Of pushback for this.

[Luke Beasley]

Because I've been agreeing with a lot.

[Eliyahu]

Have you heard I'm not gonna make this guy specifically.

[Luke Beasley]

I've heard of that, but I'm not as read in on it as I should be to speak on it. But I wonder if I was more focused on just because it was the big story and I wanted to again advocate principle, his Hunter Biden pardon, which has been the topic of discussion. Pardon wise for us mostly.

[Eliyahu]

Yeah, it was funny. You were telling us a little bit pre show that you actually had a first hand experience with Hunter button. I don't know. Could you. What can you tell us anything about your experience firsthand with. Yeah, just at the holiday and the myth, the legend.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, yeah. I knew somebody at the White House who invited me to the White House party, the holiday party. Hunter Biden was there. I found it kind of strange.

[Luka Gradowski]

I feel like, you know, I'm sorry, right. Who cares? There's a saying that if you're not liberal when you're lung, when you're young, you have no heart and if you're not conservative when you old, you have no head. But the interesting thing about it is like what we define as conservative or liberal are amorphous. Right, Right. So like what does it mean to be conservative? Who want, who wants to try and explain what conservative is?

[Eliyahu]

Traditional, hierarchical, individualistic are the general ideals that it trends towards.

[Luka Gradowski]

What does liberal mean?

[Eliyahu]

Like enlightenment ideas, vaguely free speech. God.

[Luka Gradowski]

Then why is it, why is it that, why is it that the liberal, the colloquial liberal are the authoritarians in this country?

[Phil Labonte]

Because they're not liberals. Because Rush limbaugh in the 90s ruined the word liberal.

[Luke Beasley]

So like I obviously disagree with that. But.

[Luka Gradowski]

Well, so lockdowns. Let's try lockdowns. We'll start there. Government lockdowns were largely a liberal phenomenon.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, initially it was right and left.

[Luka Gradowski]

Initially it was Trump supported for two weeks and then it was more than two weeks. No, no, no. The initial thing was two weeks to slow the spread.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

And that was Trump who did that. And then it resulted in basically everybody locking down. But it was the right that ultimately started let. Ultimately started letting up. And so you ended up with vaccine mandates, mask mandates, which shifted largely into a liberal. Yeah, that's Why I say left instead.

[Luke Beasley]

Agreed.

[Luka Gradowski]

So that became the authoritarian faction. The left adopted that one.

[Luke Beasley]

But then, like, what do you say about Trump talking about going after the media outlets he doesn't like or suing them?

[Luka Gradowski]

That's allowed.

[Luke Beasley]

Never. He said, oh, no, I know it's allowed. You agree, though, that, like him saying the government, this was a, quote, untrue social pulled up should come down hard on msnbc.

[Luka Gradowski]

And what's wrong with that?

[Luke Beasley]

That. That's not. That's fine to you. That's authoritarian to me. Whenever presidents want to wield a governmental power to go after outlets they don't like their coverage of, but we have laws that.

[Eliyahu]

What do you think about Stephanopoulos defaming Donald Trump?

[Luka Gradowski]

Let's not segue off of the question he just asked.

[Luke Beasley]

He didn't defame him.

[Luka Gradowski]

So. So when we love to talk about that, by the way, when Trump says there are. We have. We have civil liability issues pertaining to defamation and the media. Yeah. You sue them. And if the government is an aggrieved party through defamation, then they should sue them.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I know. I would be losing your absolute mind if Biden was out saying the media like Fox News. I wouldn't be criminals.

[Luka Gradowski]

I assure you. A lot of times, 100%. Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

And so that's an authoritarian impulse to want to punish, not outlets that. I don't even know what the justification would be. But it's all about people who have wronged him. And if you disagree with that, I think you're obviously staring in the.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm not saying that aggrieved parties should have no recourse, be it the government or otherwise. So if the federal government is lied about by the New York Times, do.

[Luke Beasley]

You think Ann Seltzer deserves to be drained of her funds by Donald Trump?

[Luka Gradowski]

I never said I agreed with it.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. So he's doing it to.

[Luka Gradowski]

He's allowed to file a civil lawsuit.

[Luke Beasley]

He's allowed legally. I'm saying it can act in an authoritarian manner.

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, well, this is very different from, like, taking people's jobs away unless they get a medical medication.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, yeah, those were the individual job.

[Luka Gradowski]

The jobs were doing that under government mandate. Biden issued a mandate that a company. More companies with more than 100 employees had to do it or else make.

[Luke Beasley]

It happen or masking. It was always an option. You were never forced.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, they tried to use OSHA to make it.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah. They required that if you had more than 100 employees, you were forced to issue vaccine mandates or masks. Sure, Pick one.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

The Government forced every company to do this.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. And the government has all sorts of mandates for safety and OSHA has no.

[Phil Labonte]

Authority to do anything like that. And the Supreme Court found it. Agreed.

[Luka Gradowski]

Listen, listen, listen. You know, I'm totally fine if this is your argument. That's fine. Just saying that if you think that filing a defamation lawsuit is comparable to the government Manning everybody engage in, there's.

[Luke Beasley]

Nothing more authoritarian than saying we should terminate the Constitution because.

[Luka Gradowski]

Why did he say that?

[Luke Beasley]

Election lies pulled up on True Social. The MSNBC comment he talked about.

[Luka Gradowski]

We went over this one with Shack on the term of the Constitution. And. And I'll give.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, don't defend that. It's just. Look, it's just. Ugh. It's just like you don't. The Constitution shouldn't be terminated.

[Luka Gradowski]

Didn't say that.

[Luke Beasley]

Pull it up, please. A massive fraud of this type magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulation.

[Luka Gradowski]

We went over this with Jack and I know that you guys have a tribal reason why you're going to oppose. You're not.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no. I think there's just few things that are so succinctly an embodiment of someone's lack of. Of dedication to our Constitution.

[Luka Gradowski]

So let me ask you a question.

[Luke Beasley]

Him thinking Ann Seltzer.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let me ask you a question. If I said the overturning of Roe v. Wade allows for women to be put in bonnets and red dresses and forced to be impregnated, am I calling for them to be.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, you're alluding to that being. Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

So when the Democrats literally said that.

[Luke Beasley]

You said, oh, that's the argument.

[Luka Gradowski]

So you agree that the Democrats want to put women in bonnets.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I understand that you can both make an argument that we live in some dystopian reality where this is the case.

[Luka Gradowski]

So here's my point.

[Luke Beasley]

Trump, earlier in the message was talking about overturning the election. Election. He was saying he would be the one by the mechanism terming the Constitution. So this is the election result.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'd call this the Covington effect. When is it? Was that the kids? The Covington kids or the Sandman effect? Trump said, do you throw the presidential election results of 2020 out and declare the rightful winner, or do you have a new election? A massive fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations and articles, even those found in the Constitution. Our great founders did not want and would not condone false and fraudulent elections. I'll give you. And we talked with Cenk about this a couple of times.

[Luke Beasley]

Please tell me, Please.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

Are you. Are you saying he wasn't obviously saying that we. That we've gone so far because of his lies? You agreed those were lies.

[Luka Gradowski]

What lies?

[Luke Beasley]

About the election.

[Luka Gradowski]

Which ones?

[Luke Beasley]

Millions of votes and Dominion was flipping and all these things.

[Luka Gradowski]

Did Trump explicitly say Dominion flipped votes?

[Luke Beasley]

Yes.

[Luka Gradowski]

Then that's not true. Yeah, that was wrong. Okay, well, there's a difference between being wrong and lying. And I'm not here to assert that I can read anyone's mind, okay.

[Luke Beasley]

But there were times that the people around him heard him say, like, can you believe I lost at this time?

[Luka Gradowski]

Who said that?

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, my gosh.

[Luka Gradowski]

I mean, come on. Like, dudes, you're making a lot of statements of fact and I'm asking you just be like, hey, like, who, who, who claimed.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, he made. He accidentally made a bunch of false statements and it led to terrible things.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think Trump lies a lot.

[Luke Beasley]

Even if you thought the election was unfair, trying to do the fake elector scheme, all those things, none of it's justifiable that this is so authoritarian. Scott Adams calls so authoritarian.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right. Scott Adams calls this. What is it? One screen, one screen, two movies, effectively.

[Luke Beasley]

That's shock. Yeah. You're shocking. That's crazy.

[Luka Gradowski]

I mean, I don't think we're allowed to. I mean, with the masking. That wasn't an option, though, wasn't it?

[Phil Labonte]

Just like you had to get the vaccine.

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't remember. You couldn't even go get food. But in this regard, this is a really, really great example of the one screen, two movies. Now, I have no problem saying, I totally understand why you believe what you believe. Right. I also think that this country is deeply pitted against. It's two factions that are deeply pitted against each other that can't actually understand the phenomenon at play. Play. That is. Nowhere in that statement did Trump say, we must terminate the Constitution. You interpret it as such. That's it.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, that's.

[Luka Gradowski]

Does it say we must terminate the.

[Luke Beasley]

Constitution over backwards way? Well, actually, the reason that I said.

[Phil Labonte]

Just a different interpretation.

[Luke Beasley]

It's not easy.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's not.

[Luke Beasley]

You don't.

[Phil Labonte]

Bending over backwards, you're putting.

[Luke Beasley]

You don't say false statements about the election and then say we should do something that's not constitutional, which is throw an election out months and months after it happened, and then go. By the way, it was a question.

[Phil Labonte]

It was phrased as a question.

[Luka Gradowski]

It was actually really simple in the context you are presenting. Trump is saying, I believe there was a massive fraud against me. The Founding Fathers would not have wanted this. This fraud they have committed allows for all of the rules to be thrown out. He is not saying we must terminate the Constitution. He's saying Democrats already did.

[Luke Beasley]

All right, you can agree that's.

[Luka Gradowski]

That's not an argument I made up. This is literally what believed.

[Luke Beasley]

You're saying that's your interpretation?

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm saying it's not my interpretation.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, then what's your interpretation?

[Luka Gradowski]

I am telling you there.

[Luke Beasley]

What's your. What is your interpretation, then? Take a stance on it.

[Luka Gradowski]

Trump issued a statement that all rules and regulations, including those in the Constitution, can be overturned in the event that there's a massive fraud.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay, thank you. Well, we agree, then. That's crazy and authoritarian because he was lying about the fraud and he's lying about the mechanisms by which you address fraud.

[Phil Labonte]

You just reasserted that. You can read his mind when Tim was saying no.

[Luka Gradowski]

Oh, yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

If one guy thinks an election was unfair and can't present that in the places where you have to present it to get an election overturned, court, then, yes, I think false statement, whatever, it's ridiculous and it's dangerous is the important point. So I think if we want to go through instances where we feel like either side has done authoritarian things, we could do that. But it's wild. Wild that y'all are so willing to speak out about what you perceive to be authoritarianism on the left with no understanding of the chief authoritarian crime you could do is trying to prevent the key part of our democratic process, which is the peaceful transfer of power.

[Phil Labonte]

So chief authoritarian crime you could do is kill someone without due process. But we won't get into that one tonight.

[Luka Gradowski]

That was Obama.

[Phil Labonte]

That's right.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah. The point here is when we're trying to logically understand what is going on, because clearly it's not so easy to say Trump is evil, Trump is good. There's two different factions in this country. Trump won the popular mandate. Therefore, you could argue, I guess, the public thinks Trump is good in that case. The public interpretation of this in the majority is that Trump wasn't calling for the termination of the Constitution. His faction won the.

[Luke Beasley]

Almost every person I've talked to doesn't know that.

[Luka Gradowski]

Doesn't know what he said.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, no. People don't know that he's threatened media outlets like he has. He's talked about threatening with what?

[Luka Gradowski]

Come on.

[Luke Beasley]

Calling them criminals would be bad.

[Luka Gradowski]

Why?

[Luke Beasley]

Because fostering an environment where people who, for the singular reason that they speak out against you politically, which they're allowed to do, are criminals. That's the only thing he would cite is that they've said terrible things about him. And then going further, say the government should get involved in punishing them. And then to show his willingness to, even before he takes office, with him as a much more resourced person, trying to punish abc, which we could talk about. That was ridiculous that they decided to bend the knee there. And then Ann Seltzer for doing a poll. That was wrong.

[Luka Gradowski]

But that's a private law suit, and.

[Luke Beasley]

He'S doing that for a purpose, so. Which I don't like.

[Luka Gradowski]

I sued Kamala Harris.

[Luke Beasley]

Awesome. I'm saying I don't like whenever presidents wield their official governmental power or.

[Tim Pool]

But it's private.

[Luke Beasley]

It's not government power or their power of their massive megaphone understanding. He's about to have governmental power to threaten people who speak out against him.

[Phil Labonte]

There was no guarantee that he was going to have governmental power.

[Luke Beasley]

No. He's doing the suit now.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

Doing the ABC or the abc.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah. When it was going on. It was going on prior to him winning, though.

[Luke Beasley]

And Seltzer, he just brought this suit.

[Luka Gradowski]

He did. I think it's a stupid lawsuit, but it's a private lawsuit, so I don't care what is.

[Luke Beasley]

What you think. Yeah, that's stupid. So I'm not gonna ask you. I was about to ask you, like.

[Luka Gradowski]

Why, Like, I don't know, like, Trump could sue whoever. Whoever he wants.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't. He said that the government should rip CBS off the air. ABC off the air.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you know why he says he.

[Luke Beasley]

Was lying about what happened in a conference?

[Luka Gradowski]

Because CBS edited the.

[Luke Beasley]

Edit every interview. Edited his interview, too.

[Luka Gradowski]

They edited two different versions, and when they got a bad reaction, they changed her answer. That's very different.

[Luke Beasley]

They played one that actually wasn't version. The other was for Morning, like the CBS morning.

[Luka Gradowski]

She gave it a different answer.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no. I watched the full unedited thing. She gives a kind of.

[Luka Gradowski]

And then either way, the argument is not that Trump.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, don't say something false. And then. And it's either way.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Luke Beasley]

It's not true.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm saying that is true. They issued two different versions.

[Luke Beasley]

She gave a longer answer and the first, like, half of it was a little bit more. There was a lack of.

[Luka Gradowski]

So there's two different versions.

[Luke Beasley]

This.

[Luka Gradowski]

Are there two different versions?

[Luke Beasley]

No, it's one answer that then they only took one part of.

[Luka Gradowski]

Like, there are two videos that are different from each other of the answer.

[Luke Beasley]

They ran like a.

[Luka Gradowski]

So it's a version like.

[Luke Beasley]

Because they can't play the entire interview on CBS Mornings when they're whatever the pricing for it. It.

[Luka Gradowski]

We're trying to get to the.

[Luke Beasley]

Wait, wait, wait. So whenever I keep it specific, when I play a Tim Pool clip and I go, hey, I was on tim pool. Here's 10 seconds of it. The full things on Tim Bull's channel like they specific.

[Luka Gradowski]

We're talking about Polaris. Please don't talk about me. Try go back to common.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm trying to illustrate a point. You're, you're mandering that they on CBS mornings aren't going to play the full interview. So they played a more.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm not arguing that. I'm trying to.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't think Trump pulling off CBS off the air because they did what they have a right to do, which is editing interviews. He's not president yet.

[Luka Gradowski]

And you think that as president he can pull them off the air.

[Luke Beasley]

I think him saying it is proof of his authoritarian intentions, whether or not he's competent enough to get it done.

[Luka Gradowski]

So if a news outlet does selectively edit for political reasons that actually already is grounds for suspension of a broadcast.

[Luke Beasley]

License, you would be hard pressed to prove there was a political motivation.

[Luka Gradowski]

Then you agree Trump's not gonna be able to do it.

[Luke Beasley]

And I don't think Trump should be running around saying, if you edit things in the way that I don't like, if you say things I don't like, I don't even know what his case against MSNBC would be. But if you speak out against me politically, then I'm gonna add you to a list. He recently said yes to Brian Glenn asking about social media influencers. And while of course you have a legal right to sue, there's that and the fear he's trying to induce by bringing such bogus lawsuits like the ABC one.

[Luka Gradowski]

Bogus against George Stephanopoulos. Yeah, but Stephanopoulos was wrong.

[Luke Beasley]

He was in a legal sense, wrong. But we all agree the judge clarified the incumbent parlance. Rape is that is. Is the way we describe.

[Luka Gradowski]

The jury said it.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. And so you would have to prove. But you agree Trump never could have won that case, right?

[Luka Gradowski]

He would have. That's why they settled.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, no. They said, oh, Bob Iger. Because they're afraid of him and they know that he could take, he could drag this sucker on forever.

[Luka Gradowski]

I've been involved in a lot of lawsuits. Getting past motion to dismiss and defamation is extremely difficult and happens in like 1:10,000.

[Luke Beasley]

Even our free speech rights and the fact that you have to Prove damages. You. You agree for that.

[Luka Gradowski]

You don't. That's defamation per se. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Tim Pool]

But why do you care about.

[Luka Gradowski]

Defamation per se? You are wrong. Okay. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Luke Beasley]

You don't have to prove that knowingly.

[Luka Gradowski]

Nope.

[Luke Beasley]

Said something. Okay, all right.

[Luka Gradowski]

You are plumb wrong. This instance accusing someone of rape is called defamation per se. So when George Stephanopoulos had been previously warned on multiple occasions, ABC News did. Trump's legal team sent letters saying, this is not rape. The jury did not say rape. Do not say this on tv. That's why when they were approaching motion to dismiss, their lawyers decided, we need to settle this and give Trump what he wants.

[Luke Beasley]

They could never prove. Never. That he was saying something false enough. Given that the judge. It wasn't like some rape. Judge.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, no, no, no.

[Luke Beasley]

Judge. Look at it. The judge clarified that rape is what he was found liable of.

[Luka Gradowski]

But George Stephanopoulos said. The jury said this.

[Luke Beasley]

I understand. And the jury found him liable of something.

[Luka Gradowski]

And the jury did not say this.

[Luke Beasley]

That pundits.

[Luka Gradowski]

Defamation per se is different from defamation.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm just saying. The judge.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'll teach you.

[Luke Beasley]

No, the judge clarified.

[Luka Gradowski]

So George Stephanopoulos said. The judge said Trump committed this rape. I'm paraphrasing. And he said. The jury said this. The judge said this. The jury did not say this. There is defamation and there's defamation per se. Defamation is to say something that's false. And with the Times v. Sullivan, you need to. You have acted with actual malice, meaning you knew what you were saying was false or you acted with reckless disregard for the truth. Under that, you could make the argument that Trump's not going to win. However, this is defamation per se, which doesn't require these. It doesn't require damages, and it doesn't require you to act with malice. It only requires that you said something so damaging to a person as if to accuse them of an egregious crime, a sexual crime or having an infectious disease that you actually bypass those precedents. In this regard, it was actually rather surprising to see how quickly ABC folded. And for $16 million is no joke. They're going to build a museum for Trump. That's the weirdest thing about it. And Stephanopoulos and ABC both had to pay Trump a million dollars. I have been in probably 10 defamation suits and targeted to me and me targeting others, and they never go anywhere. They're impossible in this regard. George Stephanopoulos had been previously warned as it's been reported and he made a false statement about. The jury asserted Trump wins.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. The judge clarified that. What? The jury found him liable. I don't know if we're going to get to resolution on this, but what he was found liable of can be described as rape, even if what they do believe, technically. Do I believe the you believe story? Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

You really do. Come on.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't know why she would have witnesses that she called immediately after.

[Luka Gradowski]

How did she get in the room?

[Luke Beasley]

How'd she get in the room?

[Luka Gradowski]

How did she get in the dressing room? Bergdorf Goodman locks her dressing rooms.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm assuming it was open.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, they don't know. It wasn't an answer. They said, we don't know. It doesn't make sense. How was she. How was she wearing a dress that didn't come out till a few years later.

[Luke Beasley]

A lot of questions that were litigated in front of.

[Luka Gradowski]

Weird. Right?

[Phil Labonte]

Right.

[Luka Gradowski]

Why didn't Trump bring her to the hotel he owned across the street?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I'm not really interested.

[Luka Gradowski]

How come? No, how come? How come? How come?

[Luke Beasley]

I.

[Luka Gradowski]

But you believe it?

[Luke Beasley]

No, I'm stating. Oh, yes, I do believe it.

[Luka Gradowski]

But where. Where were the customers? The Bergdorf Goodman.

[Luke Beasley]

Understanding that the.

[Luka Gradowski]

Where were the customers?

[Luke Beasley]

Where were the customers? Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

Where are the customers?

[Luke Beasley]

If you go, have you been there before?

[Luka Gradowski]

Uhhuh.

[Luke Beasley]

If you go is actually a massive store.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right. I know.

[Luke Beasley]

And the dressing rooms could be very isolated. If it wasn't like a super busy day, or even if it was, you could.

[Luka Gradowski]

Nobody. Nobody recognized the most famous man in New York walking into the Bergdorf Goodman.

[Luke Beasley]

Crazy.

[Luka Gradowski]

You believe it? That's funny.

[Luke Beasley]

It's also substantiated by the fact that a bunch of people have had such interactions with Trump.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, but we're talking about one lady who said she was wearing a dress that didn't come out until a few years later. She went to the Bergdorf Goodman across the street from Trump's hotel where nobody noticed either of them. She went upstairs where there were no customers and was able to enter a locked room with Donald Trump. And that's just pretty wild of a story.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you believe Christina Hoff Summers, too?

[Luke Beasley]

I don't actually know that case.

[Luka Gradowski]

That was the Brett Kavanaugh one.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

You do believe her?

[Luke Beasley]

It has been. Yes.

[Luka Gradowski]

That she was afraid to fly.

[Luke Beasley]

Yes.

[Luka Gradowski]

But she flew several times for vacation.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. People are afraid to fly.

[Luka Gradowski]

You believe that she installed the second door in her home because she needed an escape.

[Luke Beasley]

I have to tell you. But Then she Airbnb, especially on that case. I would only want to debate it if I freshened up on the details of it.

[Luka Gradowski]

What makes someone a liberal or conservative is whether they actually know what they're talking about. Because, like, policy wise, I can say I'm pro choice, traditional Democrat, pro choice. I can say I think we should tax the rich. I think wars are bad. I think, you know, I like the Civil Rights act, and. And then all of a sudden, I'm a conservative because I know what the news is, because I can say something like, well, that story's bullshit. And then people are like, well, if you don't agree with it, you're not a liberal. And I'm like, fine. I guess.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't know.

[Luka Gradowski]

Liberals believe weird shit like. Like the Ahmed Arbery case or like George Floyd. It's just.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, it's. What do you mean, George Floyd?

[Luka Gradowski]

What happened with George Floyd?

[Luke Beasley]

Are you gonna make the fentanyl case?

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm not gonna make. I'm gonna ask you what you think happened.

[Luke Beasley]

You're the one who brought it up. I was just curious what your belief was about it.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I think that someone kneeled.

[Phil Labonte]

I think he brought it up, and so he asked you about it, and then you asked him back. And I'm just curious about what you. What your. Your opinion is on it.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think you don't have one. I think you don't know what to say. I think.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, I do know what to say.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think you're scared that if you say the wrong thing, someone's going to.

[Luke Beasley]

Sure. Derek Chauvin caused George Floyd to die because he had his knee on George Floyd's back neck area.

[Luka Gradowski]

And what did that do?

[Luke Beasley]

Killed him.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, but I mean, like, what's the medical. What's the medical examiner's reasoning?

[Luke Beasley]

Is it suffocation is the technical term?

[Luka Gradowski]

No, I don't think you know what you're talking about. I think you have a. You have a surface level tribal position where you didn't actually research most these things, and you're just saying what you think you need to say.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, no, I. I mean, I kept up with the. I mean, I watched the video, and then I kept up with the court case, and then he was found guilty of murder.

[Luka Gradowski]

Why was George Floyd on the ground?

[Luke Beasley]

Tell me.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm asking you.

[Luke Beasley]

Because you. They got into an altercation, so he brought him to the ground. Ground.

[Luka Gradowski]

That's not correct.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay.

[Luka Gradowski]

George Floyd was asked to be put on the ground. George Floyd asked the police to put him on the ground.

[Luke Beasley]

So I'm just really fascinated to get to your conclusion, which is you don't.

[Luka Gradowski]

Know what you're talking about.

[Luke Beasley]

Right, I got that part. And you have.

[Luka Gradowski]

And this is why I ask you questions. And then you just say, well, what do you think? And I'm like, I'm here to figure out if you actually know what you're talking about or you're just masquerading as a political pundit.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I'm not really sure on any of the issues we've gone through. True. How, how that's been.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think I, I think you read liberal opinions and then repeat the surface level versions of them and you can't actually answer to the, the, to the actual structure of why these arguments come up in the first place. I think this is typical of liberals.

[Luke Beasley]

Interesting. Because on the things that we've gone through and then had to look up, you know, completely substantiated.

[Luka Gradowski]

You know who Ahmed Arbery is?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

Who is he?

[Luke Beasley]

Tell me.

[Luka Gradowski]

Are you joking? I'm asking you if you know what Aubrey is.

[Luke Beasley]

I, I'm not going to keep going through this because I know you are going to get me on particular details. I want you over and over and over again.

[Luka Gradowski]

I know I can do it all day.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

On things you don't know you're talking about.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no. Because whenever I go in to prepare a story, then I properly read up on it and then I deliver that story. So on the Aries areas.

[Luka Gradowski]

So you don't know he is. I don't know. It's no big deal. If I say, yeah, if I say, do you know I'm not operating. Be like, no, I'm not familiar. Who is it?

[Luke Beasley]

I think that was kind of my response. You said, yes, okay, who?

[Luka Gradowski]

And you go tell me.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm blanking on the particular case, to be honest. Honest.

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, that's fine. If you don't know who he is. If you just said, no, I'm not familiar with him, I'd say, okay, yeah, kind of my point. You said you did, but you don't.

[Luke Beasley]

No. Did I even say on that case?

[Luka Gradowski]

Said yes.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, I definitely recognize the name.

[Luka Gradowski]

Okay, well, he was the guy who burglarized that home and ended up dying in the scuffle with the McMichaels.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I remember.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

But I remember how tragic that was.

[Luka Gradowski]

Was certainly was tragic.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

What do you think about that case?

[Luke Beasley]

It has been a long time. I mean, I remember the details of them on the truck and all that, but on something I'm not prepared to talk about in an informed manner. I'm just not gonna talk about it.

[Luka Gradowski]

All right, I can accept that.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

Should we then talk about the continuing resolution? Because we've gone an hour without doing that.

[Phil Labonte]

That is.

[Tim Pool]

I like that idea.

[Phil Labonte]

Probably a good idea.

[Tim Pool]

That's good.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's the last. It's our last show of the year in studio. So, you know, we're chilling. We have the story from the Hill House rejects Johnson's plan B to prevent shutdown. That's it. I think I have an image of the, of the bills. Let me see if I can find it. Did I not have that pulled out? Here we go. Here it is right here. Take a look at this. The initial 1547 page continuing resolution followed by the updated simplified 116 page, I believe it was. And it's still lost, which means we're going to be coming up to a government shutdown Saturday unless there's some kind of emergency action taken, which I doubt will actually happen. But who knows? I can't see the future. We do have this clip. It's really amazing. From Chip Roy to The matter is $330 billion.

[Tim Pool]

Congratulations. You've added to the debt since you.

[Luka Gradowski]

Were given the majority again on November 5th. It's embarrassing.

[Luke Beasley]

It's shameful.

[Tim Pool]

Yes, I think this bill is better than it was yesterday on certain respects. But to take this bill, to take this bill yesterday and congratulate yourself because it's shorter in pages but increases the debt by $5 trillion is asinine.

[Luka Gradowski]

And that's. So I'm just going to go and say, I think we all here agree with the Democrats. It was good to strike this down. Unless Elad has a different opinion.

[Eliyahu]

I will say I don't have a different opinion just on this Chip Roy stuff. I do think Trump was trying to lift the debt ceiling for a time period. And then Chip Roy, who is a deficit hawk, as I understand, didn't want to do that. And Donald Trump is now calling for him to be primaried. Donald Trump and a lot of mag is calling for everybody and their mother to be primaried.

[Phil Labonte]

My take on it is because the Republicans don't have 60 votes in the Senate when they get back into session, they're gonna have to make concessions to the Democrats to get anything across. So it's not like they're gonna be able to be like, well, we want this and we want that. That's not happening at all. So I'm not so sure that shutting the government down does anything other than make Donald Trump put Donald Trump in a position where people are going to go ahead and say, well, he was bad, he shut down the government and then we ended up with a bill that had a bunch of things that we didn't like anyways because you're not going to get it across the line with 60 votes. You're going to have to, you're going to have to get Democrats to vote for it. So, and it, so it's not like, and it's not like I'm saying that I like either of the bills that are presented. I would love to see, you know, have a real, a truly clean continuing resolution that's very short. But, but I don't know that in the end it's going to work out where it's good for the, for the country or for, for Republicans.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think every single one of them should be primaried. When did we do this last? It was the 50s, right, when like 80% of incumbents were voted out.

[Phil Labonte]

So I don't, I don't, I don't know how many people are actually up, I, I, I don't know how many people are actually up for reelection next.

[Eliyahu]

Also the issue, the real issue at hand here is that the Republican majority is so slim and they're unable to win whip their the Congress into shape and that's going to be a problem for Trump in the Next, in the 119th Congress as well. I think the majority came down to one seat until they hold something like three special elections. So I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of this. It's again, unfortunately, the Democrats shouldn't have to work with Republicans in the House to get this passed. But because of, you know, some people in their niche concerns they're not able to get it done.

[Tim Pool]

The current system is so broken. I mean it deserves people to be primaried. It deserves a government shutdown. All I want for Christmas is a government shutdown, personally, myself, permanently. Yes, yes. As long as it can extend it. Please. I want people to actually have their voice actually matter. We showed yesterday that it does. What happened yesterday was a tremendous moment that I think we really need to in retrospect kind of think about here the larger implications of all the crap that they were trying to throw at us. Like it was just status quo. They used to be able to get away with this and they no longer can.

[Luka Gradowski]

They're about to get away with it by the way.

[Eliyahu]

They're getting away with it in two weeks, three weeks. This happens every time with a, I.

[Phil Labonte]

Love the Idea of and every time this is going to blow people's minds. But I love the idea of getting rid of the debt ceiling. And the only reason I want, I like that isn't because I like unlimited spending, but because this is always just theater. It's every year, every six months there's some kind of theater. What we really need is to have actual substantive change in the, in the, the way the Senate operates and have the ability to, to get rid of these, these omnibus bills overall. Have individual bills for individual laws, have one bill just for funding. I don't know the exact route to get that to happen. I'm not saying that I'm.

[Eliyahu]

The majorities are so slim that that's why the gridlock is here and then which is why you're going to have to see some cross party working with majority.

[Phil Labonte]

Not anything that any of us want either. Nobody's saying this is a good thing. This is probably just the reality that we're going to have to live with.

[Eliyahu]

Well, the thing is if you're not willing to get it done with the people in your party because of the Rhinos, then you're going to have to work with Democrats if you don't want a shutdown, which is what's going to happen. They're using that as leverage and Hakeem Jeffries is milking concessions out of Johnson as a result.

[Luka Gradowski]

Well, what's your perspective on this?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, these little battles are kind of to me because they almost always end the same way.

[Phil Labonte]

Little battles.

[Luke Beasley]

It's just we go through this government shut down thing.

[Eliyahu]

You think the Democrats.

[Luka Gradowski]

He's completely right.

[Luke Beasley]

I do think they need to avoid a shutdown. Like you might have to do some stuff that were but you need to especially going into the holidays. But I, I'm expecting this a bunch of times over the next two years as Republicans have the majority. Because right now there's that huge distinction between your more moderate Republicans and your Mac Republicans. And this will be the issue that really. I just don't know where Trump will fall on it. Cuz I know Trump doesn't want to shut down as he's about to come into office.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, he does. Well, you're right. He wants a clean resolution, but he'd rather a shutdown than have to be saddled with whatever pork and bloat. But I don't believe any of this stuff for a second. Like these guys were so ready to vote yes on the CR and they wanted to get it through and they don't care because the way these things work is that they all go around and say, what does it take for you to vote yes? And then they're like, give me $3 million for molasses testing thing, which is actually in it. And they're like, okay. And it's just like, it's just like a free for all to sweeten it.

[Eliyahu]

Up for my district. What am I about to get right now for my district to run on in the future?

[Phil Labonte]

Yes, it's awful and it's unconscionable that that's the way it is, but I don't know that we're going to be able to get any kind of funding bill that doesn't have that stuff because of the. How slim the margins are.

[Eliyahu]

Yeah, exactly.

[Phil Labonte]

It's terrible. Like I said, I'm not saying that I'm happy about this. I just don't think that's what it.

[Eliyahu]

Always comes back to. And, and the weak leadership. But the weak leadership is a result of the slim majority. That's why Johnson can't really whip people into shape, because how many Congress people can he realistically lose here?

[Luke Beasley]

So, and then do you think if he. Because clearly Democrats with the first edition of the CR were down to vote for it, do you think Mike Johnson, if he ends up having to go that route again, is going to have issues since we're coming up on a speakership vote?

[Phil Labonte]

There's no incentive.

[Eliyahu]

He's going to have to work with Democrats and then he will be called a rhino, and then this will be water under the bridge in three months.

[Phil Labonte]

There's no incentive for Democrats to work with him.

[Luke Beasley]

I.

[Eliyahu]

Because they will milk. No, they will concessions.

[Luke Beasley]

They work with them a lot whenever they. Because they're going to want a lot of the stuff that was in it.

[Eliyahu]

Where do you think the Ukraine funding came from?

[Luka Gradowski]

I just. Look, we can't play this, can we? Come on. Democrats wanted to vote for that. Like, the American people look at that and they're just like, what? Well, the only reason Democrats voted no. So it's actually funny because we, we were watching Fox before with the, with the live vote count and Luke and I were both like, wait, wait, Democrats are voting no. And then we checked and it was like, oh, they did an updated cr. Cause like, you know, I'm eating lunch or eating dinner and I'm not watching the news. And then you're traveling here.

[Phil Labonte]

That's.

[Luka Gradowski]

So like in the last few hours, they introduced the new. We were surprised. See, Democrats were against it, which didn't.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, the Democrats didn't. The Democrats didn't vote for the smaller one because it didn't have the pork. The Democrats want the pork. They didn't vote for the new one and there's no incentive for them to, to get the smaller seat to vote for the smaller CR because it makes Trump, it will make Trump look bad if it doesn't go through the big one. They get all the, all the sweetheart deals, all the pork, which is what the Democrats want. They get all the favors and stuff. I don't see any way to get just a small bill that does what needs to be done through as long as they can blame the Republicans.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let me ask you, look, do you, do you think the first version should have passed?

[Luke Beasley]

I expect it's just too so much that I, I don't even have an opinion on it.

[Luka Gradowski]

This is, it's, it's, it's, it's shocking to me after what I will say.

[Luke Beasley]

There are like, I think we all agree there were important additions in there. But in terms of the 1500 pages, you know, to your point about or someone's, what makes these things get passed, there's going to be stuff that's like, what the heck.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, but 1500 pages, they put a new law banning deep fake pornography. Just like, sure, I think that's bad too. But that should just be a bill that you vote on. Like, why is someone going to put in. How about this? Speaker Johnson, I got a pitch for you. I can get all of the MAGA Republicans on board with signing a 1500 page bill if you just slide in one small page that says effective January 1st, 2025, the ATF will be abolished.

[Tim Pool]

I like. Right, that sounds great.

[Luka Gradowski]

They're going to be like, wait, wait, we'll take it for three months.

[Tim Pool]

The sky's not going to fall if the government shuts down. Quite the opposite is going to happen here. We have to understand under Reagan that the government shut down, down a lot. It's okay. I want this gridlock. I don't want them approving a lot of this stuff. I want to make sure that our money isn't wasted. Our money is being inflated. Our money is being burnt away on reckless, stupid, idiotic projects. I wanna know everything we're approving and let's vote on it on an individual basis. Why can't we do that? Let's do the. If Phil wants a little bit of government, let those little incentives be voted on individually.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let's flatten this out real quick. The initial version of this bill which we have pulled up right here is 1547 pages. And what like almost every, all but like seven Republicans were ready to vote yes and all the Democrats were ready to vote yes. It's Christmas, I don't care. Spend a trillion dollars, screw the economy, let's leave. And then there was a public outcry and a campaign which incorporated Trump, Trump and Elon Musk. And it resulted in a whole bunch of Republicans saying, okay, I'm changing my vote. Notably Anna Paulina Luna who reportedly had posted she has no choice but to sign this because we need the disaster relief for the victims of the natural of Hurricane Helene, etc. And then the public backlash was no, they should be introducing a single page $100 billion relief act. We agree with spending money on that. They should not be holding us hostage. Yep, we saw 30 Republicans flip and this ultimately result resulted in a much smaller 116 page bill that Democrats got angry about. That being said, however, more than enough Republicans flipped on this to where? Well, actually no, I take that back. If the Democrats voted yes, it would have passed outright. There would not have been nearly enough Republicans. It is insane that Democrats and their voter base don't fucking care.

[Phil Labonte]

They. Well they don't because they can blame, they can blame Republicans. That's why it's all because they have the ability to blame Republicans. They don't. They actually don't care. They don't. They're not like, oh, we need to fund the government. They'll use all of the, all of the pork and stuff like that. They'll go, they won't talk about it. They're going to sit. All they've been talking about is oh look, Elon Musk is the President and blah blah, blah. All they're doing is, is, is, is deflecting from the actual fact that they're the ones that could have voted to pass this, this smaller bill and fund the government. But there it's likely that, that the Republicans are gonna get blamed. So yes, you're the majority.

[Tim Pool]

So they blame them on everything.

[Luka Gradowski]

Anyway, Republican, all of the Republicans are just as bad as all the Democrats except for the fact that due to the Republican voter base, it forced them to actually back down. But the Democrat voter base did nothing. They're fine with it.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I think I was hearing two people's reactions like Democrats in Congress to that one. They have that 1500 one up until I think today.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

And so I think for them it was. We had a deal with speaker the House, Mike Johnson. They then introduced another one just like this and it's sort of that had.

[Phil Labonte]

A deal that had a lot of pork, and then they got rid of all the pork.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. I mean, that's just so that.

[Phil Labonte]

And so, so essentially what we're saying is the Democrats were like, we want to spend all this money and we want all these sweetheart deals. And then when the Republicans said, we don't want that, just fund the government.

[Luka Gradowski]

Wait, wait. The Republicans went to the Democrats and they all high fived each other. And then the Republican voter base said, we will remove you from office. And the Democrat voter base said, yeah, we don't care at all.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, well, the Democrat voter base doesn't have that pressure from their. From their electorate.

[Luka Gradowski]

Nope.

[Phil Labonte]

But because. Because Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy and Mike Johnson and Donald Trump all had this stuff planned out, and then they responded to the voter base. The Democrats didn't have that pressure because the Democrats. Democrat voter base doesn't care. They know they're fine with blowing out the money.

[Luka Gradowski]

Here's. Here's how I imagine it. The Republican Republicans in office are looking out the window at a bunch of people with pitchforks and torches, and the Democrats are looking out the window with a bunch of people bowing to them.

[Phil Labonte]

Yep. It sucks, but that's the way it is. It sucks that this is probably going to happen. They're probably going to get a bill similar to this. You know, in January when Trump gets into office, when he, when he's actually, you know, sworn in, the Republicans are gonna have to come up with a bill that makes the Democrats happy. It's probably gonna be filled with pork again. And then even if Ramaswamy and the Doge get in there and they say, oh, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad. There's not the pressure on the Democrats to actually give concessions.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'd like to take this moment to try and articulate the problem with continuing resolutions, just so that people who don't know can at least hear my argument. I know most of you prob. So forgive me, but there are probably some people saying, like, what's the problem? Why can't we just have this massive spending bill? Why is it an issue? We can start with the easy. The dysfunction of Congress. Congress is not supposed to be that they just rubber stamp every spending bill and take your tax dollars and produce debt to just buy literally whatever they want, like molasses testing. You gonna explain to me why we need $3 million for molasses testing? I'm sure there's a reason someone has, but it is a reason why you, the taxpayer should be footing the bill. The bigger issue is mass spending bills and raising the debt ceiling just means there's going to be more national debt. The US is going to have its biggest line item, interest payments, meaning your tax dollars and newly printed fractional reserve dollars are largely going to just paying off the interest to all the debts owed by the US government. Meaning they're going to have to tax you more. It means they're going to have to that we're going to see inflation across the board because of this hyper taxation. And ultimately if we continue on this path, we are never going to have sound resolutions like I don't know, we need to build the Francis Scott Key bridge that collapsed. That's a bad thing, right? Okay. When you jam it next to a bill that bans deepfake porn and molasses testing and you combine these things, things, you are going to end up with this. The Democrats and Republicans fighting over why this is happening. What we need is what Matt Gaetz proposed. Single issue spending bills. They could have easily passed them all today. 100 billion for disaster relief. We all agree. 3 million for molasses. No, no, no, no. We're not spending 3 million on molasses. That's a weird thing. Okay, how about this? Deep fake porn. Let's debate it. Should we ban that? They should all be separate. Ultimately, the simple thing is your government in Congress doesn't actually vote on bills. They spend most of their time fundraising. That's why they do this. This is a continuing resolution means.

[Phil Labonte]

And that's the House.

[Luka Gradowski]

In the House, right. We don't have an omnibus spending package. That's insane. They wheel and remember when they wheeled in the wagon of 5,000 pages? Because what happens is 90% of the time of a member of Congress is not on the floor saying this bill is outrageous. I oppose it. No, it's great. I support it. They're in their office on the phone asking for money and you'll get three Democrats and three Republicans and a parliamentarian saying what about this bill? And they go, whatever, fine. You get more and more weird and wacky laws in the books that make no sense. No one does their job. And then at the last minute, instead of even an omnibus spending package, they say, let's just continue the existing spending package and jam in 1546 extra pages to get all of the things we were supposed to get for our constituency that we never actually debated or argued the way I described it this morning. You guys ever see the movie Bruce Almighty?

[Tim Pool]

Yep.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's when Jim Carrey is getting all of the prayers so he just says yes to all. And then what happens? Nothing makes sense and it's pure chaos. We don't have a function in government right now. We have members of Congress who don't do their jobs. We have members of Congress who are spending all of the time fundraising. And the CR is an attempt to actually get something a notch in their belt belt so when they go home they can say hey, got you that molasses spending. Didn't I vote for me?

[Phil Labonte]

That's 100 what it is. But as long as there's not a 60, you know, 60 to 40 majority in the, in the Senate and I don't know what the majority has to be in the House, it's got to.

[Eliyahu]

Be like I think it's a simple, isn't it a simple, it's a simple.

[Phil Labonte]

Majority but they need like 215 or 220 to be safe so that way they can lose some Republicans. I so I mean as many as possible possible in the house. So say 230, which they don't have and they're not going to have in two years. Like you have to deal with what you have to play the hand gear dealt. I wish that it wasn't this way. I wish that the sausage making wasn't so ugly. But this is part of the reason why people get so frustrated with, with politics is when you look at the realities of the situation actually in the chamber and what you have to deal with, the Democrats right now are just sitting back being like yeah, look at you Republicans. This is your mess, this is your problem. They have no incentive to actually work for the American people. And their constituency is also doing the same thing. The constituency as in the Democrat, the voters, they're, they're like haha, look at you, haha. They're sitting there laughing too. So it's not about. It's not just that Congress is bad. It's that the whole left versus right thing is a massive problem.

[Luka Gradowski]

1. You know, it's funny.

[Luke Beasley]

Well yeah, just saying the Democrats, it would be for reasons that y'all would disagree with but have jumped in to save which has caused problems for these speakers politically. Both McCarthy and Johnson a bunch of times. It's not like they want to see them just hung out to dry. They just demand concessions to, to do that. You know, I mean they're not just obstructing for obstruction's sake.

[Phil Labonte]

I totally disagree with you.

[Luke Beasley]

Then why did they keep being the ones who help Johnson? And then before that McCarthy.

[Eliyahu]

Because they wouldn't be able to get.

[Luka Gradowski]

A majority in the government.

[Phil Labonte]

Because. Yeah, because they don't. They don't have. Because they want something for in return.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, the Republicans have done this in.

[Luke Beasley]

The past, but that's like complaints about it Congress. But I do.

[Luka Gradowski]

That's right.

[Phil Labonte]

That's what I'm saying.

[Luke Beasley]

But I know what you mean about. Well, my point is that, like, there have been things that, because of the way these games are played, get in, that I don't feel like would pass standalone, that I support. You know, so it's like the cost benefit announced, but there's a lot of stuff like they were putting in, like pay raises and see, but. But HealthC care enhancements that then you disagree with. So I don't know. I mean, that. Be. In theory. I like the idea of.

[Phil Labonte]

I don't support. Personally, I don't support any of. Any of it. Like, like, I'm more of the opinion of, of Luke. Like, let it all shut. Like, shut it all down. Like, I'm in strong agreement.

[Luke Beasley]

What do you say to like, the people who need their benefits and necessary. Well, support.

[Phil Labonte]

So the.

[Luka Gradowski]

I have an answer to that when.

[Phil Labonte]

It comes to those kind of things because I don't think that, that it's a good idea to just cut them off totally. Like, with. With no kind of warning or no plan to fix it. I would say that that stuff should be funded, but it should be phased out.

[Luka Gradowski]

My position is Medicare. Yes.

[Phil Labonte]

Yes. Because it's gonna, it's gonna go away in 2033 if we don't do something about it.

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't, I don't, I don't understand.

[Phil Labonte]

That doesn't work. The numbers don't work. You can't just say, oh, we gotta fund it more.

[Luke Beasley]

We can. Like a good example, with Social Security, we still have the Social Security tax cut gap. That.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah. What's the number I would want to get? It's like 168,600.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I would want to get rid of that before we start cutting.

[Phil Labonte]

So essentially you would just say tax people more to pay for Social Security.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, no, wait, wait, wait. This is good. So 168,000. I think it's somewhere around there.

[Luke Beasley]

We don't need. I think dollars above that should also be getting taxed for Social Security.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you know what? Jeff Bezos salary is not that much.

[Luke Beasley]

He's like, his income is not that much.

[Luka Gradowski]

Well, his, his. In, his. In his payroll. Yeah, his income's high, but his payroll is low. So he doesn't have to pay that.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, like for him, that wouldn't be a solution. So, but my point is that, like, if you're making $200,000 per year, it's weird to me that some of your money's not being taxed. But if you're making 50,000 or anything under 168 and 600, I think then all of your money's being taxed. You know, I mean, that's like, I would do that first with Medicare. I do think just.

[Luka Gradowski]

I agree.

[Luke Beasley]

That's just. Yes, I am for tax.

[Phil Labonte]

But here's your way out of the.

[Luke Beasley]

No, but, but like Trump's promising to come in and do another big tax cut bill, stuff like that.

[Luka Gradowski]

That's great.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't understand. But why aren't you worried about inflation?

[Luka Gradowski]

Yes.

[Luke Beasley]

So if he's going to do his tariff plan and the mass deportation.

[Phil Labonte]

No, no, the tariff plan is not going to get into.

[Luka Gradowski]

I, I, I, I don't, I, I don't mean to, I want to go back to the point you made about Social Security. It's a good point that if you make $50,000 a year, you use 50. 100 of your income is taxed for Social Security.

[Luke Beasley]

Right.

[Luka Gradowski]

If you make your correct $200,000 a year, then a quarter of your income is not taxed on Social Security. Yeah, I think that's weird. I'm not saying. I know the solution is, I don't know if it just means tax people more, but that's a really good point. That makes no sense. Why are lower income people taxed at 100 of their income for Social Security and wealthier people are not. Honest question. I don't, I don't, I don't think just increasing the, like there's not enough rich people to tax to fund everything. But it's a great point that Social Security is literally where we tax the poor more. I don't, I don't get it.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, well, that's a good common ground.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

I wrote a solution that's not even.

[Luke Beasley]

Like raising a rate. That's just saying apply it.

[Phil Labonte]

So the reason that, the reason that a tax, tax break would be a good thing is because you actually would stimulate the economy or the intent is to stimulate the economy and that and an economy.

[Luke Beasley]

That's what Trump promised last time and he ballooned his deficit. His economic.

[Phil Labonte]

No, no, but you're talking about, you're talking about COVID though. The, all, the vast majority of, the vast majority of the, of the move.

[Luke Beasley]

Covid for both Biden And Trump. Trump still add twice that of Biden to the debt.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, I'm not sure about that. But, but even still, the point. The point is if you have, if you have growth, then you can deal with the, with the debt. If you don't have growth or you have a small growth, then the debt does become a massive problem. And in 2033, the. All of the, you know, all the Social Security and stuff like that, it all becomes insolvent and there's not enough people to tax. You can't tax your way out of this. You can't tax your way out of it.

[Luke Beasley]

Is Axios. Trump, Biden debt.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm trying to build a graph showing all of it so we can look at the whole map of every year.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. So. Because I was thinking. I was asking that I did, to be honest.

[Phil Labonte]

You can't tax your way out. You cannot tax enough to cover the, the, the if. To cover the unfunded liabilities. The mandatory spending. Mandatory spending that's coming.

[Luke Beasley]

You've mapped it out before. You can. It's like with extending how many years these.

[Phil Labonte]

No one agrees. No, no, the, the CBO says. The CBO said. The Congressional Budget Office.

[Luka Gradowski]

Hey, wait. Sorry. Let's just look at Argentina.

[Phil Labonte]

Okay, well, there you go.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, I mean, he, he got their debt to zero for the first time in, like, what, like their country's history? Basically.

[Phil Labonte]

Yep.

[Luka Gradowski]

So we got us a graph, a graph of US Debt growth and. Hold on, let me pull this over. I'm going to see if I can extract the image and make it bigger or something, because this is very small. How do I do this? I am downloading it and then I'm going to load it in so that we can, we can zoom in on it. Sorry, guys.

[Luke Beasley]

To your point, while, while you're pulling that up, it's so strange to me that we would be talking about fiscal responsibility, that a lot of the MAGA folks in Congress are pretending like, even though Republicans do have the worst record on the. The debt over the last century, we're.

[Phil Labonte]

Not talking about fiscal responsibility. We're talking about Social Security. There's different spending.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. So the reason.

[Phil Labonte]

Mandatory.

[Luke Beasley]

Okay. So the reason that I brought up. Yeah. So I addressed that you could solve it the way that it's currently structured. You would have to supplement funding through a separate bit of legislation. But to what we're talking about with, with addressing debt and deficits, first of all, they need to get consistent because Trump's record on. That's horrible. Was one of my points. And then Also, you don't come into office if you're serious about addressing the debt and immediately decrease how much revenue the government's bringing in. And we didn't explode out.

[Phil Labonte]

I'm not talking.

[Luke Beasley]

No, that's what cutting taxes is.

[Phil Labonte]

So everything, everything you talk about is always, well, Donald Trump. Donald Trump. Donald Trump. I'm not talking about Donald Trump. I'm not talking about Donald Trump. I'm talking about. The CBO has, has forecasted that the.

[Luka Gradowski]

The Social Security, the large spot like was Covid. I actually don't know if Trump's debt was in any way more egregious than any of the past president. It looks, it looks rather linear.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I just think if you. Again, since this portrays it in a different visual Axios. Trump, Biden debt should pull it up. Trump does have, I mean, he added more to the debt than any president.

[Luka Gradowski]

But again, this one says he. I think twice that.

[Phil Labonte]

I don't, I don't know.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right, right. That's, that's Covid.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, exclude look. Non Covid.

[Luka Gradowski]

Oh, I see. I see. You're right. Yeah. Non Covid. Relief. Trump is more than double Biden. I don't see Trump's position, and I don't give him credit for this one, is that you want to be underleveraged. His idea is that you want to maintain growth above spending and then it doesn't matter if you're.

[Luke Beasley]

But he failed even before COVID I think we agree.

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't know. I mean, the economy was doing fairly well regardless.

[Luke Beasley]

But if you look at the trajectory of Obama's economy, it's. It's not like Trump improved the performance. Let's start with. Are you laughing about.

[Phil Labonte]

Because, because, because you're us. You're implying that, you're implying that Obama's economy carried over into Donald Trump and that's why Donald Trump had some of, some of a good economy. But all the bad things that happened because of Donald Trump not hearing me.

[Luke Beasley]

At all, at all. I'm saying that if it were true that that tax cut bill was going to significantly so much so that it would, would it would help to balance out how much was being added to the deficit, thus debt. If that tax cut bill would be really economically stimulating, then why didn't we see that in the data year over year, going from the end of Obama to the beginning of Trump, you would have seen a change in growth, a change in unemployment drops. I don't know why you're laughing.

[Phil Labonte]

Because of a picture that someone sent.

[Luka Gradowski]

To me so it's just completely unrelated.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, totally unrelated.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, then I apologize for my tone.

[Luka Gradowski]

And it looks like Obama, if you remove Covid, it's hard to know for sure. It looks like Obama's debt was slightly greater than Trump's, but Covid put Trump over everybody else.

[Luke Beasley]

Yep.

[Luka Gradowski]

So tracking the Obama years. 2008. So this is the year of 2008, which. That's not fair, actually. If we go 2009, which is the first year that Obama was actually there, we're looking at like 12. And then he gets out in 2012, so. So it looks about 10, 10 trillion. And then if you do Trump, it's hard to know because of COVID There's a big spike during COVID and he doesn't, he doesn't deserve. I don't give him a lot of credit for Covid, especially.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. Well, and, but we looked at the Biden, it's Trump analysis, removing it. And then also Obama was recovering from the Great Recession. The first few years of Trump were economically stable times.

[Luka Gradowski]

This actually is kind of weird, though. Biden. Biden starts 2021 and he's at like 27 and he ends at 30, 35. Yeah. So it looks like the Biden added a little bit less than Obama and Trump would have in the long run. Covid. Covid makes it anomalous. It's hard to track for sure.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. So. So my. All my point is Donald Trump, one of the things I'm trying to understand, not understand, one of the, like, all.

[Luka Gradowski]

Of their spending is no good. You know, nobody gets credit for this one.

[Tim Pool]

But it's all horrible track records. If you look at Argentina, though, specifically what they did, they slashed government spending, eliminated entire departments, they laid off bureaucrats, they cut taxes and it fixed inflation in their country. I don't see why we, we're not seeing this as the gold standard for something that we should be doing is of course, what you're describing is what's been happening for so fricking long. And the debt keeps going up and up and up. And you want more cancer to help with the cancer. More taxes, more. More rules, more regulations, more bureaucrats, more spending. I don't want any of that. I want the government to act in a GoFundMe style fashion. If we want something, let the government raise a website where they raise funds for it independently. That's really what I ultimately want. We're screwed. We're in big trouble and there's going to be a lot of big financial repercussions coming in 2020. 5. And there's going to be a lot of tough situations for Donald Trump, which I don't know if he's going to be able to fix.

[Luka Gradowski]

It's going to be World War Three. And I'll give you the real simple version. Now that the interest on the debt is the largest line item, there's going to have to be a massive stimulus to dump money into the market so they can pay off the interest and the debt, which just devalues the currency, which means anybody holding US Debt is going to lose their shit, if you know what I mean. And then, you know, Thucydides trap, we're going to war with China, and then hopefully after we go to war, we win, and then we can tell them we have no more debt. Wow.

[Eliyahu]

China's been awfully quiet after that, huh?

[Luka Gradowski]

Well, most of the debt the US Owes is to itself.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

So the debt is largely to the US it's to various individuals, contracts, bonds, etc. The government likes to make promises they can't pay because they're like, the U.S. government. We got guns. We'll pay you eventually. Nobody, not a single president we've ever had in my lifetime deserves anything related to the spending. Republicans come out and they're like, we need to balance the budget. And then they don't. And then Democrats come out and they say, who cares about balancing the budget? So they don't. And then we just keep spending until, I think the challenge for most. Yeah, until the insolvency of Social Security.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Phil Labonte]

2033 is when it is. When it's alleged to be insolvent. That's what the CBO says. And it doesn't matter what Donald Trump or, or Joe Biden did in the past. Right now, what we're talking about is what goes, what's going to happen in the future. And unless there are significant changes to mandatory spending, not discretionary spending. So it doesn't matter that we send pennies to Ukraine or pennies to Israel, because in the grand scheme of it, the amount of money that we're sending to both Israel and Ukraine is irrelevant. We need to deal with, with the unfunded liabilities, the mandatory spending, the Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, they need to be restructured, but you can't touch them without everybody saying, oh, you hate grandma and want to throw her off a cliff.

[Luka Gradowski]

My, my, my view on this is I don't know why the government should be isolated from any other market force. If you work for a company and then you show up to work one Day. And your boss is like, hey, I'm sorry, we're out of business. And you go, what? My health care is gone. It's like, yeah, I'm sorry. Nobody's buying carpets anymore. And so we can't sustain this and we're done and you're not going to get paid. But when it comes to government, they're like, I'm pretty sure there's someone somewhere we're going to point a gun at to make sure they pay so I can make sure you keep getting your Medicare. And then they go, works for me.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I mean, obviously it's different being a citizen versus whenever you actually own the currency and stuff, but I agree we need to do something about it, which is why I'm critical of. Like, it's crazy to me that back. I don't. We can.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, you do.

[Phil Labonte]

You totally want to bring up Donald Trump. I know you want to bring up Donald Trump.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

It's just weird that you.

[Tim Pool]

Is he in the room with us now?

[Luka Gradowski]

He's.

[Luke Beasley]

Who do you think they're all concerned about the opinion of all the people in Congress who are Republicans. I'm saying if you guys are serious about the government efficiency stuff and all that, it's so ridiculous that we do what Trump did last time, which would do the opposite of getting us.

[Luka Gradowski]

Oh, no, I agree, but he's not going to do it last time.

[Luke Beasley]

And I disagree with the tax cut bill.

[Phil Labonte]

I disagree with Donald Trump.

[Tim Pool]

Anyways, we don't. Why do you want. Want more taxes? Why do you not. You want sociopathic. That's crazy. With the way that things have been going. It's insane.

[Luke Beasley]

The last one disproportionately benefited a lot of big companies and wealthy people, but then didn't have the returns and growth that from promised. So I don't think we should be sacrificing people's Social Security checks for the sake of a wealthy person's private jet. Right off thing.

[Phil Labonte]

I don't agree with Donald Trump either. Okay. Because I think you need to restructure Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid.

[Luke Beasley]

My solution.

[Phil Labonte]

And so that's what Donald Trump. Donald Trump doesn't want to touch that. And I think he's wrong just to get that out in the open so that way, you know, you can stop associating me with Donald Trump.

[Luka Gradowski]

Here's the L. A Times.

[Luke Beasley]

That's different than.

[Luka Gradowski]

You want to read it?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, you can read it. Do I want to read it?

[Luka Gradowski]

Oh, whoever.

[Phil Labonte]

Most American readers react. Most Americans got a tax cut Under Trump. But the left's messaging made us believe a lie.

[Luka Gradowski]

Matthew Iglesias of Vox.com famously said, Nobody likes to give themselves credit for this kind of messaging success.

[Luke Beasley]

Yes.

[Luka Gradowski]

But progressive groups did a really good job of convincing people that Trump raised their taxes. When facts say a clear majority got a tax cut.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I would. I did not say raise their taxes. That.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm not saying you did. I'm just pointing out that under Donald. Under Donald Trump, most people got a tax cut.

[Luke Beasley]

The fact that.

[Luka Gradowski]

And the left claimed it wasn't true.

[Luke Beasley]

Portion. Okay, well, then I know that people got tax cuts who weren't wealthy. But my point is that for a priority at all to be cutting taxes in ways that disproportionately stimulates growth, folks, it is wild. It doesn't stimulate growth.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, I don't think it stimulates growth.

[Phil Labonte]

If you cut taxes.

[Tim Pool]

Inflation. Inflation went down from 25% to 3% in just a year with Javier Milley literally proposing eliminating 90% of all taxes.

[Luke Beasley]

You had 98 taxes. Yes. Then cutting them would stimulate growth. But at the point where we are now, we have test cases. We've seen Trump's last administration. Sorry to bring it up.

[Phil Labonte]

I mean, that's the only thing you got. But that's what we're talking about.

[Luke Beasley]

He's the incoming.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, I mean, that's what you were. That's what you were talking about.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let me clarify. I think the issue of stimulating growth is not as simple as to say it's a tax cut or a tax rate.

[Phil Labonte]

No, no, no, not at all.

[Luka Gradowski]

The issue is that it's what the government does when it comes to taxes.

[Phil Labonte]

Rolling back regulation would do more than a tax cut would. So if you got rid of a lot of the regulations.

[Luke Beasley]

Regulations.

[Phil Labonte]

Well, of course, it depends on what regulations, but we got it.

[Luka Gradowski]

Like, I had this debate with Sam Cedar and I'll take this opportunity to clarify some points. Not that his audience cares, but. But when it comes to, like, the regulation of harmful materials, which is what we are typically referring to, like lead and stuff, I'm in agreement. Like, there should be more regulations. I'm on the RFK junior train. Phallates, PCBs, all of these things. We have regulation. But if we're talking about general business regulation, we were not able. Able to open a coffee shop in two years.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, that. I mean, granted, that's a lot of that stuff. Actually, no, I can't speak for your local ordinance. Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

So regulations are nuts.

[Phil Labonte]

A lot of times it is local and stuff like that. But general, literally, regulations make it difficult to do business. This is not some kind of difficult or it's not some kind of crazy right wing conspiracy to say that regulations from government make it harder to get things done.

[Luka Gradowski]

But let's, let's clarify too, and it's.

[Luke Beasley]

A cosplay of analysis of, of how much is the consumer being protected. Like a lot of the EPA regulations that Trump rolled back are frightening with what it allows companies to do.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you know I did it?

[Luke Beasley]

Do I know why Trump, he was really big on the deregulating.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you know why he deregulated?

[Luke Beasley]

To help companies prosper.

[Luka Gradowski]

He did, yeah. And so, and I don't like that trade off.

[Luke Beasley]

The companies can do absolutely wonderful and also not dump toxins into waterways.

[Luka Gradowski]

The, the issue was, I don't completely disagree, but, but the, the issue was that in China they don't have these regulations. So they're basically, if you, have you seen a picture from like China and the smog, they have like that big LCD screen, LED screen where it's like a sunrise because it's brown everywhere you go. So China's attitude is basically, we do not care about the earth, we do not care about pollution. And Trump said, okay, we need to stop our factories and our production from going to China. What do we do? There's a few things you have to do. Tariffs is one, and deregulate. So when Trump goes to say, like a widget manufacturer hypothetical, and he says, I want your factory here in the United States, what does it take to get you here instead? And they said, Mr. President, we can't. The regulation limits the amount of, of insert chemical we're allowed to have as a byproduct. So we can't do it. China doesn't care. Not to mention the cost of manufacturing in China is 75% lower and we can just ship it back here and we make a 35% gain. So then Trump said, okay, what if I remove some of these regulation regulations on say, carbon emissions and certain chemicals allowing you to produce here? Is that. Well, then we could, but we're still dealing with a cheaper product. And he goes, if you don't, I'm putting a tariff on your product. And then they were like, well, well, I mean, that's going to cost us money. He goes, I don't care. So Trump launched tariffs, got into a trade war, and then deregulated in an effort to bring manufacturing back to the United States. I'm not saying it's good or bad. That's just what he did.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. Well, and I would say, while I understand sometimes you're of course wanting companies to manufacture United States, in a general sense, sometimes that can be beneficial. But that didn't really work for the economic prosperity that he had promised.

[Luka Gradowski]

What do you mean? Look at the 2019 was the best economy we've had in like 40 years.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. Which was like a little inch forward across the projected economic performance that we already had projected pre Trump coming into office. So it was.

[Luka Gradowski]

We can't really play that game, though, because everyone I look at it, play.

[Phil Labonte]

It all night long.

[Luke Beasley]

You can. Yeah, sure.

[Luka Gradowski]

But everybody always says, like, it's not.

[Luke Beasley]

That I'm saying they said, they said.

[Luka Gradowski]

Obama's economy was miserable. You're talking about Bush. It's everything Bush did that made Obama's economy good. We can't play the game. Was the.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, I'm saying that. I mean, it's pretty fair to say when you come in office during an economic crisis and then you. It's not that obviously the presidents are doing everything. I'm just saying if we're going to credit and blame and then you oversee recovery and then you hand a pretty good economy to somebody, they can't then because it continues on the trajectory that again, you can look at the projections that it was set to that that's because of them.

[Luka Gradowski]

You're so like him. Right. When I was really.

[Luke Beasley]

If we saw this crazy economic explosion compared to the, the performance that was expected based on, on where things already were, then you could look into, like, was it the tax cuts? Was it.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, no, no, no. But, but here's, here's why you're wrong is because everything you're talking about, the recovery from, From Obama, it was actually Bush.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. But you can.

[Luka Gradowski]

Actually everything that you're attributing to Obama was actually Bush who did it.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I haven't seen it.

[Phil Labonte]

Everything.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, I don't think. I don't think that's what I'm making a point that if you say Trump's economy was good, but Obama did it, then I just say Obama didn't do it, Bush did it. It's not.

[Phil Labonte]

Obama's economy was good because of quantitative EAs. Like Obama's economy was good because free money.

[Luka Gradowski]

Did you know that there was a whole movement against Obama in 2011 called Occupy Wall Street?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, obviously. Obviously recover. I'm not saying economic performance is because of the president. That's silly. But that's how people talk about politics a lot. And so my point in Yalls argument about rollbacks or Regulations or tax cuts is saying clearly because it didn't change, it didn't change the trajectory in a positive direction in any major way. These weren't steps that I like the trade off of I don't like. And you said you partially agreed a lot of the regulation rollbacks as it pertains to the environment. Because I do think that is worse for Americans living here and the trade off of maybe a company manufacturing here isn't worth it and, and that trade war didn't really.

[Phil Labonte]

There's a lot of people that, that and then that are young that really have like are having problems finding jobs. Right. I mean I know unemployment is low but there's a lot of like there's people that are working multiple jobs and they're low paying jobs and stuff like that that so I don't, I'm not so sure that that what is that jobs being overseas. Well you were saying that that you were saying you don't think that you think that it's a good trade off.

[Luke Beasley]

Have a good impact on manufacturing jobs in any major way.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Luke Beasley]

So you see it in your data.

[Phil Labonte]

You're saying, you're saying that the, there's that the manufacturing jobs that are like in China like Tim was talking about in China and stuff like that bringing them back here isn't worth the, isn't worth rolling back back. I'm saying relations to get those.

[Luke Beasley]

That would be an interest interesting an interesting philosophical conversation. But even we don't have to go there because he didn't even do it effectively. Right. He didn't do it in any way that would change his job growth compared.

[Phil Labonte]

To Obama in the future.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh it depend on the, in the individual regulation. No, if you're dumping toxic waste into.

[Phil Labonte]

Waterways general I mean well generally that's kind of like a straw man just be like oh you know just dump toxic. If you dump, if you dump, dump toxic waste into the water then you'll.

[Tim Pool]

Go ahead and let's be honest, the regulations, a lot of them are weaponized. Cause if a company, if they're big enough and they have enough connections through all the regulators they pass through their poison anyway. Let's look at glyphate. Let's look at all these other things. So poison is out there and it's usually rubber stamped through government that uses regulation to stop any kind of real legitimate competitions against their buddies and their friends in the corporate world and the lobbying world. This whole system is entirely broken. And therefore I'm like yeah, let's just get rid of all of them because we're selecting the winners and losers in this larger kind of economy. And that's not what a government should be doing. And that's why I'm for deregulating, ending this corruption, ending the lobbyists, ending this bull crap and this revolving door with all the regulatory agencies and the corporations that really truly do control them generally.

[Phil Labonte]

I'm of the opinion that lives right now.

[Luke Beasley]

It sounds nice when you benefit from the.

[Phil Labonte]

No, no, I mean what I'm saying is we do have means to punish people if they pollute. Like property rights will. Will cover a lot of things when it comes to. If someone pollutes. Pollutes, water pollutes.

[Luke Beasley]

Why do you. Obviously the reason that we. Not that everyone is good. I don't know.

[Phil Labonte]

That obviously is a good thing to start it with. But go ahead. What you said, obviously, as in as if what you're about to say was obvious to everyone and it made no sense that there was any opinion other than what you're saying. So maybe obviously isn't the great way.

[Luke Beasley]

What I'm about to say you're gonna realize that you do agree with it because I was about to say that obviously every regulation is not good. But the reason that a lot of them were implemented, whenever I hear these sort of like libertarian utopian articulations of people's views. The reason we implemented these regulations because people were being harmed by again, the environmental impacts of companies. It's not true that through property rights or through individual lawsuits we solve the problem. That's why usually the class action lawsuits anyway ways. So while some of them can be too burdensome, the reason a lot of these have been implemented or as it.

[Luka Gradowski]

Pertains to bank real quick. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna.

[Luke Beasley]

In the past. So clearly we're gonna roll them all back. There was a time when we did and it wasn't good. That's why we added I'm gonna prove you're wrong.

[Phil Labonte]

No, that's true.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna prove you're wrong. But I think you're gonna agree with what I'm saying because it's actually, I'm just, I'm just being silly. The regulations don't typically come because people are harmed. They come because the cost of damages exceeds the cost of the regulation. So basically, if the cost of doing nothing is cheaper than the cost of doing something, they don't do it. You know what I mean? Like New York, for instance, there was a guy went to the Empire State Building shot up his boss and his workers. Tragedy walked outside and the NYPD ran up and started firing wildly and missed him and hit seven bystanders. Everybody asked, how could this happen? It turns out they don't really train the NYPD to use their guns properly. Why the cost of training is more than the cost of the lawsuits they have to pay. Pay. So these regulations usually emerge when the government realizes the cost of the environmental damage is greater than the loss of the economic boon they get from it. It's all about whether they're going to make more money.

[Phil Labonte]

The implication of your argument is that the government acts altruistically. And I don't think that's true at all.

[Luke Beasley]

No, I do not believe that. That's why you want regulations, taxes when people were harmed. The reason why the government does it is not the same thing as what prompted the chain of events to.

[Phil Labonte]

That I disagree with the.

[Luka Gradowski]

So I'm saying, obviously, let me, let me.

[Luke Beasley]

Cynical politicians aren't doing things. They're. They're just good hearted, most of them.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, let me just. Wait, let me say this real quick. If there is an environmental crisis that is killing people, the government will actually do everything their power to cover it up. Right? When, when. Only when the harm reaches public outcry and the cost exceeds the revenue, then you get the regulation. So for instance, we can talk about like unleaded gasoline because we're like, man, lead floating around everywhere is bad. But we never really talk about, you know, Ian brings us up brake dust in cities. Brake dust is a huge contaminant which could be causing problems because of all the cars grinding, their brakes floating in the air. We don't regulate that.

[Tim Pool]

Astrazene. Fluoride.

[Luka Gradowski]

We don't. We don't. Yeah, fluoride.

[Luke Beasley]

In your ideal world, that and lead and everything would just be going all over the place.

[Tim Pool]

Not true. Not at all.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think Luke is wrong. Wait, which one? No, I agree with this. Luke and I think Luk Radkowski is wrong. Okay. It's like, wait, which one? No, I think we do need regulation.

[Tim Pool]

I think, I think right now what Javier Milley is doing is a perfect example of deregulating in a kind of sensical way where you slowly do it in a, in a sensible way, building obviously right now if we can't go into full anarchy, obviously, that's, that's. But it doesn't make sense. Yeah, I think, I think absolutely the free market would solve a lot of the problems that I think the government overwhelmingly creates. A lot of the problems. And if you look at a lot of the ecological disasters, they have the rubber stamp of the government it that either participates in it or covers it up afterwards and, you know, plays a major role in undermining and screwing people over that much more. If you look at a lot of the kind of experiments that were done, especially with radiation on people in St. Louis and all these other larger experiments, you see larger examples of the government literally spreading the poisoning themselves. Would a free market capitalistic system thrive off of that? No. A business would harm themselves and their enterprise and their reputation and their customer base if they hurt their customers. So therefore, I would argue overwhelmingly, and I would disagree with you, Tim, that a largely deregulated state would be a lot better than the current state of what we have with all these regulations.

[Luka Gradowski]

Luke Rudkowski is incorrect. That's your opinion. I need to say only one thing. Phthalates.

[Tim Pool]

Go on.

[Luke Beasley]

Why?

[Luka Gradowski]

Why? Why is your spin drift right? Is that your spin drift, Luke?

[Tim Pool]

No, that's yours.

[Luka Gradowski]

The one right over there.

[Tim Pool]

That's yours. That's yours right here.

[Luka Gradowski]

Did you drink it?

[Tim Pool]

I didn't want to. I lost my water bottle.

[Luka Gradowski]

All aluminum cans are lined with plastic. I know which leeches, PCBs, phthalates or whatever. I'm not saying spindrift. I'm a big fan of spindrift, by the way, so. But why is it that we know these things are bad, but they're allowed to be in all our products? Yeah, why in a totally deregulated state, the amount of things are going to be leaching into your food are going to be.

[Tim Pool]

But people still have the perception that the government cares about them, that the government is still out there regulating everything and therefore they feel comfortable. But if they understood, hey, hey, it's a world where you're going to have to look out for yourself. I think that world is a lot more reasonable than the current one that we have right now with the pretending that it actually does care, that it actually does exist in a way that actually works in your favor. Because a lot of people are brainwashed to believe. Yeah, I'm going to the supermarket. Everything here is. Is hunky dory. Everything's here fine. When there's a crap ton of poison in our food that doesn't exist anywhere else.

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't believe that. I think. I think our government's corrupt. Largely. Most people agree with that. Corrupt as in either they're lazy or self interested. They're not doing their jobs. I agree with you that a Lot of people think my food must be safe because the FDA has checked all of this.

[Tim Pool]

Exactly.

[Luka Gradowski]

But it's also, I believe, fair to say that if we totally deregulated, some dude's gonna be like, looks like cheese to me, sells it. People are gonna eat it. How about when the radon girls were rubbing their teeth with radon cause they didn't know better. Now granted, that's an extreme thing where within a few years their jaws were falling off, off. But right now we're in a civilization with tartrazine in our food, with pesticides in our food, with genetically engineered plants.

[Tim Pool]

Destroying everything, and with thousands and thousands of regulations on top of it regulating all those industries at the same time.

[Luka Gradowski]

But that, but, but saying government is corrupt does not mean we shouldn't regulate things. I agree with the government's corrupt. We have, it's like the government's not.

[Tim Pool]

Going to do it.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let me put it this way, Luke.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you need a car mechanic when your car breaks down? Yeah, but what if your car mechanic is, is corrupt and he's cheating, he's cheating you. He's ripping you off. You wouldn't then go, we can't have mechanics because mine keeps ripping me off.

[Tim Pool]

You'd be like, that's oversimplification. I, I think people being more reliant and understanding that the world is wild, that not everything is hunky dory, not everything is safe. I think is a better perspective of individuals. I think humanity going forward and people moving forward in a way where they understand, hey, the responsibility is on me. Because ultimately it is because we're living in this make pretend world world and this make pretend world a lot of people profit off of by lying and screwing us over. Let's get rid of that incentive real quick.

[Luka Gradowski]

Luke, what do you do when we do go that route and then you end up with a sickly diseased, mentally impaired population voting.

[Tim Pool]

Don't we have that now?

[Luka Gradowski]

Hence my point.

[Tim Pool]

Yes, we have that now. We have that now. I would argue especially with the mental health crisis, especially with the mental health crisis, especially with all the regulations that we have now. I would argue that yes, there would be some people that would win a dollar, but there would also be a lot of other people that would become more self reliant, more personally responsible and there wouldn't be any need for them to come in and take more of your money to give us this make pretend feeling that everything is hunky.

[Phil Labonte]

Door. This is a good time to quote Thomas Sowell and point out that there Are no fixes. There are only trade offs. So the amount of regulation that you have or what have you, in my opinion, there's probably too much. I don't think that regulation stems from good people in the government wanting to do good things. I think so. Most of the time you implied that, but most of.

[Luke Beasley]

I said harm happens, so then there's an out. I mean, I didn't use the word outcry, but he did. But I said harm happens that prompts the government to do something. I never.

[Tim Pool]

That's the opposite. Yeah, government harms people. I disagree that they cover it up.

[Phil Labonte]

Disagree. Okay, listen, let me finish here. I disagree with your characterization that, that, that it's. That it's spawned by harm. I think most of the time it's spawned by government and businesses colluding, trying to keep other. Others businesses from starting up from. From engaging in. In whatever market they're. They want.

[Luke Beasley]

They draft the legislation.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah. And they draft the regulation 100%. I'm totally in agreement about that. So I don't think that regulation is actually meant to save people or protect people. I think regulation is generally meant to. As a barrier to entry for people. I mean, look at what happens when it comes to, you know, women that can't braid hair because they need a license for that. There's all kinds of. The vast majority of regulation is that of regulation. Not the kind of, oh, you want to make sure the water's clean.

[Luke Beasley]

Right.

[Phil Labonte]

Most regulation is dumb and pointless for the American people.

[Eliyahu]

Look, I agree with you on principle of a lot of what you were saying with. Ultimately the decision and what you do is in your own hands and you have ultimate responsibility for that. But I think it comes to. There's like a certain limiting principle on it. So, for example, there used to be no regulation on the tobacco industry and their lobbyists used to tell people that smoking actually made you more healthy and like, it was good for you. So, like, I don't know, what is your take on kind of the.

[Tim Pool]

We're also told a lot of things are good for us, especially in our medical. In our current medical system. And that all of that is an.

[Eliyahu]

Absolute lie about to back the tobacco industry specifically. Because I know we could think of examples where it's not good. But what do you think about us trying to regulate the tobacco industry specifically?

[Tim Pool]

Well, there was medical doctors that were actually telling people that were actually bought off, telling people, yeah, smoking's great for you. Smoking's awesome.

[Luke Beasley]

Who were they bought off by?

[Tim Pool]

Of course, the lobbyists, tobacco corporations, out there, of course. But when you look at this larger kind of scenario and situation, right, whether it's tobacco or whether it's personal choices and personal decisions that individuals want to make, they still lived in this kind of world where they said the government knows what's best for you, trust the government, don't worry, they have your best interest at heart. They do not and they never did. And there was even a lot of government that has finagled studies, lied studies. And I can make the same counter argument there. And as Phil kind of described here with the Sowell quote, here again, there's no perfect answer here. It's not going to be everything going perfectly like you want it to go. There's not going to be any kind of victims or harm, obviously, but I would argue there would be a lot less harm, a lot less victims if there was less government. I know, but I think that's pretty clear because on the opposite, because on the opposite, you know, spectrum here, we have a lot of forced mandates and a lot of forced products and a lot of things that are absolutely horrible for you that rot your health, kill your health, that the government mandates and forces you manipulate. I would argue that same question, but, but, but I would just spin it back in that same kind of Philippines philosophical way.

[Luka Gradowski]

I, I got him a lot. What do you think about Israel?

[Eliyahu]

Should we regulate Israel?

[Tim Pool]

No, we shouldn't give them any money.

[Phil Labonte]

Hey, what?

[Tim Pool]

We should not be giving them a dime. We should not be spending any money.

[Phil Labonte]

Endorsed it. So one, one thing that I want to point out, one thing that I want to say is, look, everybody knows that we're, that we have a fat society in America, that we're overweight. We have a massive problem with, with type 2 diabetes and, and, and early onset diabetes. Kids are getting diabetes. If, if we got rid of the corn subsidies, we would get rid of the high fructose corn syrup in all the food and the amount of sugar that people intake would be reduced dramatically. And that is because of government subsidies that, that we have all of the high fructose corn syrup. That is why there are so many people that are fat. There's so all of the disease, not all of, but of a significant portion of the disease that we experience in the United States that people get from being overweight, from being unhealthy is directly attributable to government subsidies of corn because of the, because of corn and soy as well.

[Tim Pool]

And soy is another big one.

[Phil Labonte]

Fair enough. But the point, the point being is we don't know how Many lives would be saved if it. Over the course of the past three decades, four decades, if it were. If there were no corn subsidies.

[Luka Gradowski]

The one thing I've learned from all of these disparate worldviews is that I think I'm just going to vote Democrat next time, and they can just make decisions for me and I'll just do whatever they want, bro. It's just easier, you know, you don't got to think.

[Eliyahu]

Luke, do you like Israel or not? Not that Luke. This Luke. Democrat Luke.

[Luke Beasley]

Israel.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah.

[Eliyahu]

Do you like Israel? How do you feel about the government.

[Luke Beasley]

Of Israel or the people?

[Eliyahu]

No, the country. Does Israel have a right to exist?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Eliyahu]

Sweet. What do you think about the current Gaza war that they found themselves in China?

[Luka Gradowski]

He's trying to trap you.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, careful.

[Eliyahu]

He might not be invited to the next White House Hanukkah Party. Party.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I think way too many civilians are currently dying in Gaza.

[Luka Gradowski]

But not Israel. I mean, what's wrong with you, man?

[Luke Beasley]

But then, yeah, of course, prompted by October 7, then Israel. I mean, this is like obvious. Do you want me to answer? Yeah, I'm just around though. Okay. Should have defended himself and then now Netanyahu is making much decisions I disagree with.

[Eliyahu]

I could deal with that. He's better than you too.

[Tim Pool]

Eli, what do you think about the Palestinian people?

[Luka Gradowski]

People?

[Tim Pool]

I think the Palestinian state should exist.

[Eliyahu]

I think it's a myth of. I don't think they exist as a real people, just like trans people don't exist. I don't think the Palestinians as a people also do not as a shock.

[Phil Labonte]

You think I'd gone hard at the end.

[Tim Pool]

Wait, wait.

[Eliyahu]

What do you think about transgenders? Do you think men can become women and vice versa?

[Luke Beasley]

Can they change biological sex? No. But can they change their gender identity? Yeah.

[Eliyahu]

So I guess. What is the difference between sex and gender?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, so, I mean, that's kind of the. The core of this bizarre, almost semantic debate we have. Other than probably some weirdos online. I don't think any rational person is actually arguing that, like, biologically, you all of a sudden can become a different sex. Well, but then there are a lot.

[Luka Gradowski]

Of people who are.

[Luke Beasley]

I said no rational person. I guess. I, I. Well, I'll just speak for myself. I don't. Yeah, but also the Democratic Party, like Kamala Harris wasn't running on that, but y'all try to project on to her. And so my point is that can you all at least engage with the argument from most. The mainstream Democratic position is that if someone's Gender identity aligns with the opposite one as what? Aligns with their biological sex assigned at birth. And then they go through the extensive process and all of that. We're going to identify them as such because it's so social.

[Eliyahu]

I need to push back a little bit because I do think the mainstream position in the Democrat Party is that minors should have access to puberty blockers.

[Luka Gradowski]

And.

[Eliyahu]

And when you don't toe this line, for example, I think there was a Democrat Congress congressman somewhere in New England who said, like, yeah, we're a little bit too entrenched in this issue. And he got a lot of pushback on it. But I guess my question for you would be, do you think that minors should have access to sex change, hormones or testosterone? People under the age of 18.

[Luke Beasley]

Right. So definitely not surgeries. Okay. Puberty blockers, the things that are more reversible. And I really would. I really would say that I understand the sensitivity of this issue, which is why I want the best medical consensus to prevail, which is to say that if you demonstrate it's not. I have to be honest, it's not studied enough. We need more research on this. But I've seen some data that suggests pretty compellingly that if you were to not do any, like puberty blockers or anything with someone who, who's been. Has gender dysphoria by the time they're fully through puberty and they're 18 years old now, the mental implications of that for the rest of life, especially someone who's male, are much more damaging. But I'm also not the medical professionals. I don't know.

[Luka Gradowski]

Do you think that gender identity should be a protected class under the 1964 Civil Rights Act? I'll rephrase it. Do you think that businesses should have the right to discriminate on the basis of gender identity?

[Luke Beasley]

No.

[Luka Gradowski]

So, like, if there's someone who's clearly biologically male and they want to use a women's bathroom or a woman's locker room, not even like a changing room, but like, like a women's only area. Yeah. You think that they should be allowed to do it.

[Luke Beasley]

That's tough.

[Luka Gradowski]

Because.

[Luke Beasley]

Because someone who's like, I mean, we could cite examples very transitioned, like Nancy Macy's obsession with the one trans congresswoman woman. That makes no sense. And what I've seen, and this has been researched, is that you actually don't see an increase in assault or harassment if people are going to the bathroom, the lines with their gender identity. But if you force someone who, especially if they very much appear to be the like one gender identity, but then they are forced to go on the one that lines with what they were assigned at birth. That actually does increase harassment and assault.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right.

[Luke Beasley]

So it seems the most logical thing is let's do what we were doing before, which is no one really.

[Eliyahu]

Well, the mask, don't tell.

[Luke Beasley]

No, you just went to the one that made sense.

[Luka Gradowski]

Well, actually like if you just start.

[Luke Beasley]

Identifying some type of way and in every way, to an observer you look like a really matured man, then probably you go on the mental.

[Luka Gradowski]

I, I, I, I largely agree, but it's, it is difficult. So it's like hard to have a, a specific stance like the, the, the individuals we often use for this, forgive me for saying your names, but they're like the two examples is Buck angel and Blair White. Are you familiar with these individuals?

[Luke Beasley]

Blair White?

[Luka Gradowski]

I am, yeah. Blair. If was Blair. Blair's walking around, everyone's like, that's a young woman. They, they don't realize that Blair is, is a trans woman. And Buck angel walks around like that is a burly man. Nobody realized that Buck is actually a trans man. If Buck angel walked in the women's room, you're going to have, you're going to have problems. I'm sorry, that's just true. It, Buck angel is like a gruff, bearded male look like, looking like a male. And if Blair went to the men's room, guys largely wouldn't care as much other than to be like, this is weird, weird, you know, because guys don't feel as threatened. And that's where the challenge comes in that I do agree with. But the, the issue largely which came up in the Supreme Court arguments was that the, the, the criteria for civil rights protection is immutability. And the argument from the transite is that gender is mutable, ergo it cannot be protected under the law. And the Supreme Court was wrong in their ruling, what was it? 2019, they ruled that gender identity is protected under the sex category. But gender identity is, is not immutable. You can change your gender identity, therefore it can't be protected under the civil rights law. It's not, it's not a no. So I don't know how you handle it, but ultimately then it doesn't matter how many, you know, trans women are in the NCAA or whatever it may be. It's just simply we don't care because you are not a protected class.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I mean, this has been one that I'm, I get upset with the weaponization of, of it I'd say, like, it being attached in the ways that it was to Harris when her campaign was something different. But I'm also willing to engage with it.

[Eliyahu]

Well, I guess. Where do you think the Harris campaign fell when it came to trans issues? Because I feel like there's a little bit of gaslighting, because I do, for all intents and purposes, believe that Harris and the Democrats writ large, do believe that people can change genders and do writ large support. Oh, okay. So.

[Luke Beasley]

But we just made the distinction as to why I believe that.

[Luka Gradowski]

That.

[Eliyahu]

Okay, so Kamala Harris and her campaign did support that stuff.

[Luke Beasley]

But, like, we all.

[Luka Gradowski]

You mean identity? You mean identity?

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, like. But that's, like, synonymous with gender.

[Eliyahu]

I don't think it's misleading.

[Luka Gradowski]

But to liberals, not to conservative sex spirit.

[Luke Beasley]

Right.

[Luka Gradowski]

And so we're just trying to draw, like, we're trying to understand each other. I'm not saying you're wrong to use the words.

[Eliyahu]

What were we saying wrong about the Kamala Harris campaign then? Or like.

[Luke Beasley]

Oh, just that. Like, she never made that a topic of her campaign. That wasn't on her policy agenda. She's not seeking to.

[Phil Labonte]

It's fair to say that she never made it a topic of her campaign, but it's not fair to say that it's not something that was. Was made very public by Democrats. Consistent.

[Luka Gradowski]

Kamala in the past had been in favor of it.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

She didn't use it in her campaign of gender surgeries, notably when she said, we want to give illegal immigrants entertainment. Transgender surgeries.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

She publicly said it.

[Luke Beasley]

That clip.

[Luka Gradowski]

I think you're totally right that her campaign did not say these things.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Luka Gradowski]

That's why it's important we have free speech in this country. So we were able to inform people, hey, she's dodging this issue. She's very much in favor of these things. She just won't say it because she knows it's a losing. No.

[Luke Beasley]

But, like, even if you look at what Biden and Harris, I guess the administration has done on the issue, it's not like they're to the far left of the issue. There have been things they've done that have kind of walked the line. We're talking about that.

[Luka Gradowski]

Pissed off both sides, I think. I think Jazz Jennings mother should be in federal prison, you know, see if Ron DeSantis.

[Eliyahu]

Are they still in Florida?

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, they never did anything about that, man. Let me see if I could pull this up.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, it's. It. I take issue with the idea that there's a separation between gender and biological sex. I used to like Blair White. Hey, let me finish here. I used to be fine with the. With the idea of gender and stuff. But the more you actually think about it, it really does boil down to like sex spirit because it's something that it's. No one can really define what a gender is. How you express yourself is it just the clothes that you wear? It's the way that you carry yourself.

[Luke Beasley]

With her, I'm worried about like her mental well being and her dilation minute.

[Luka Gradowski]

She leaves my house.

[Luke Beasley]

House, we have a dilation problem.

[Eliyahu]

That is a concern.

[Tim Pool]

When you don't have that watchful eye, they tend to go back to old patterns.

[Luke Beasley]

I have woken Jazz out of a dead.

[Eliyahu]

This is so gross.

[Luka Gradowski]

Dilator and put the lubrication on it.

[Luke Beasley]

And said, here, you take this and you put it in your vagina. If not, I will.

[Luka Gradowski]

I want to go back taking the.

[Luke Beasley]

Dialing Jazz out of a dead sleep and taking the dilator and put the.

[Luka Gradowski]

Lubrication on it and said, here, you.

[Luke Beasley]

Take this and you put it in your vagina. If not, I will.

[Luka Gradowski]

But Jazz is bad when you should be in prison. Jazz Jennings, you know, that is one of the first trans kids was identified in the press as like at 7 years old as being like a trans child. Was given puberty blockers and then multiple surgeries to graft what's what they call a neo vagina. I believe they use stomach lining to do it. There are multiple complications resulting in severe def. Severe depression and morbid obesity. And this is from the tlc. I believe it's tlc. I don't know. It's from the reality TV show where Jazz Jennings mother says that if Jazz doesn't want to do this, she will wake her up in the dead of night and tell her to do it or she will. This woman should be in prison. If a man was caught on camera saying, I wake my wife at the middle of the night and I say, you stick this in you right now, and if you don't, I will. That guy would go to jail. Yep. But for some reason, this is considered normal and acceptable. And this is from. This is like an old show. It's been in the air for a long time. We are looking at. With. With Jazz Jennings and as well as many other people, systemic child abuse to an extreme degree that has largely been defended by the Democratic Party. They don't acknowledge this. I'm not surprised you don't know what this is. This. This doesn't circulate in. In liberal circles. I Guess they don't watch the show or whatever. But then you have like. Another really great example, of course, is the book Genderqueer. When the left was claiming the right was calling for banning books, it's like, well, yeah, the ones that. That have porn in them.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, but that was like, there were so many. Because we've looked at those lists, I think you would agree what gets grabbed up in those banning sprees are not just porn books.

[Luka Gradowski]

Somebody wants to ban a book that's.

[Luke Beasley]

Like, no, but it's like, random. There were like, random ones.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right, right.

[Luke Beasley]

Start pressing me.

[Luka Gradowski]

Somebody wants to ban some random book that has nothing to do with, like, weird adult materials. Like, then we're in agreement. Like, that's stupid. But when, like, Emma Vigiland of Majority Report outright stated she wanted children to have access. Access to descriptive scat materials. I'm like, okay, you must be a pedophile. And then she was like, how dare you call me that? And then they were like, could you believe Tim Pool called it? I'm like a grown woman said she wanted to give little kids books on what scat means. What am I supposed to call her? I don't know. She publicly stated it. What do you do? Do you think? Do you ever hear of the book? This book is gay. So a teacher gave it to her middle school students. The parents called the police on her for it because the book was describing how to use Grindr for 12 year olds. Like, why would you do that? Yeah, why would Emma Vigiland in. In Majority Report be like, that's a good thing for kids to have. They're a big. They're a big YouTube show. Right? And so this is the problem we have. Someone comes to me and says, like, hey, here's a book about like, auto mechanic who, you know, is engaging in questionable behaviors. It's probably like a teenage novel. Novel. I'd be like, I don't know if that should be banned. Maybe we should look through it. Doesn't seem too adult. What's the rating on it? Then you look at Genderqueer, which is rating is actually 18 plus, and they're giving it to 10 year olds. And it's like, yeah, okay, well, we shouldn't do that. And then they say, we're trying to ban books. So it's stuff like that. We don't need to rehash it. But this video, I hope everybody sees. I hope everybody hears what she said.

[Luke Beasley]

I have woken Jazz out of a dead sleep and taken the dilator and.

[Luka Gradowski]

Put the lubrication on it and said.

[Luke Beasley]

Here, you take this and you put it in your vagina.

[Luka Gradowski]

If not, I will.

[Luke Beasley]

But Jazz is that.

[Tim Pool]

That's sickening.

[Luka Gradowski]

She lives. She lives in Florida, and they've never done anything about this.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, that's absolutely just insane. And that's child abuse. But. But look, the. The opposite of that is happening. You know, these people aren't being held accountable. Parents in Canada, parents in Europe are literally being sent to jail because they don't want to go along with the mutilation of their children. Children. What do you think about those specific laws and this overreach of government that goes into people's personal lives and says, you know what? Your child is going to not be able to have children forever because they just were influenced by either what they saw or the. The school or their peers that was kind of propagandized to them that essentially eugenicizes them.

[Luke Beasley]

So I can't speak to the. I can't speak to what Canada is doing, but the United States. I know I've seen multiple examples of laws supposedly that were getting passed that would do stuff like that. And then I looked into them. That's not what they were. But I. I just think this is something, as we hopefully all agree that, number one, if you're underage, there needs to be some reversibility to it. Oh, God. I think we're all.

[Luka Gradowski]

She was underage. Yeah, she was underage the whole time.

[Tim Pool]

There isn't. There isn't.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm with you.

[Tim Pool]

You can't.

[Luka Gradowski]

There's no. Puberty blockers are not reversible. That's not true.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, that's not. The.

[Luka Gradowski]

So let's. Let's. Let's. Let's just start it like this.

[Luke Beasley]

The.

[Luka Gradowski]

Let's just.

[Luke Beasley]

Overwhelming research on this.

[Luka Gradowski]

But let's just. 7 to 10 years old. Wait, wait, hold on. Let's just say 7 to 10 years old. What happens to a child?

[Luke Beasley]

What happens to a child?

[Luka Gradowski]

Right? So. So. So, like, if they.

[Luke Beasley]

If they're having gender, basically.

[Luka Gradowski]

What. What. The reason why they're saying puberty blockers are reversible is that you can stop taking them. But at a certain point, if you. So if you're on puberty blockers, your body is still growing, it's just not developing secondary sex characteristics and other things associated with the hormones like your joints, your eyes, etc, your bone density. So they say it's reversible because. Because you can stop taking it and you live. It's not reversible in the sense that you will never get back the years 10 through 12 to be able to develop bone density as you're growing. So that that's not reversible.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah. I would just pull up the research. My point is that I don't think I'm the best expert on this. And so that's why. And I don't think y'all are either. And I don't think the government probably will be best to make calls on which things are appropriate when other than then given our current laws around adulthood. I, I think permanent surgeries would be off the table. But then with the other stuff, I just. How about for adults as it's studied. I want to see because I know that on the other end of the spectrum, like this is one end of the spectrum. Right. We'd all agree is wrong. On the other end is people who live much worse quality of lives and then it's improved greatly their suicidal ideation. Etc.

[Luka Gradowski]

I got, I got to stop you right there is actually the trans man who argued at the Supreme Court said that's not not true.

[Luke Beasley]

Again, I'm just talking about the research.

[Luka Gradowski]

No, no, no, no. ACLU's transgender lawyer arguing on behalf of trans kids that there is no evidence to suggest suicidal ideation decreases with transgender treatment.

[Luke Beasley]

I don't think you're hearing what I'm saying. I'm saying depending on the medical consensus after thorough research should drive our approach to this just like any other issue. And the obsession on this one with that, with it being taken out of the hands of doctors and families as opposed to any other treatment. Kids get confuses me. But I'm not the expert, so don't pick my brain.

[Luka Gradowski]

I don't know if I know. Let's give it to an actual transgender individual who argued at the Supreme Court. From City Journal an astonishing moment took place yesterday at the Supreme Court. This from two weeks ago during oral arguments in US V Scrumetti, the case that challenges Tennessee's ban on pediatric sex change procedures. Chase Strangio, the American Civil Liberties Union American Civil Liberties Union deterrent attorney, admitted to Justice Samuel Alito that the narrative around the risk of suicide in trans identified youth is false. Before Alito and Strangers Exchange, Justice Sonia Sotomayor had asked U.S. solicitor General Elizabeth Prologar about minors with gender dysphoria who attempt suicide. Prolegar responded that the rates of suicide not attempts, but actual death by suicide in that population are striking, given the government's support for puberty blockers and cross sex hormones as treatments for gender dysphoric youth. The clear implication of Preligar's remarks was that such interventions are known to prevent these tragic and interview common sense events. So this claim, the rates of suicide among gender dysphoric young people are high, constitutes a trans suicide myth. When it was Strangio's turn, Justice Alito asked, do you maintain that the procedures and medications in question reduce the risk of suicide? The transgender identifying attorney responded, I do. Justice Alito maintain that the medications in question reduce the risk of depression, anxiety and suicidality, which are all indicators of potential suicide. Note that Alito asked about suicide and Sjo answered about suicide data, the latter of which refers to the thoughts or intent of attempted suicide. Though suicide would be preceded by suicidality, Reacher's research does not show that suicidality is a reliable predictor of suicide. According to the CDC, in 2022, for every one person who committed suicide, 270 people seriously thought about suicide and 33 attempted it. Strangios pivot to suicidality is a standard tactic, etc. Etc. Then came Mr. Strangio's remarkable concession. What I think, think I that is referring to here is there is no evidence in some in these studies that the treatment reduces completed suicide and the reason for that is completed suicide, thankfully, admittedly is rare. And we're talking about a very small population of individuals with studies that don't necessarily have completed suicides within them. However, there are multiple, multiple studies in long term longitudinal studies that do show that there is a reduction in suicidality. Yeah, this was actually a very big.

[Luke Beasley]

That's what I said. Did you hear me? I said suicidality.

[Luka Gradowski]

But suicidality is not suicidal suicide.

[Luke Beasley]

I understand that.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right.

[Luke Beasley]

I'm saying this is a, like a mental phenomenon. So then it's going to be treated and then you're going to check back like we do with any other.

[Luka Gradowski]

So then, so that relates to the.

[Luke Beasley]

Psychology of someone on how psychologically they're being impacted.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'm not going to put this on you, but generally speaking, this is what we call a Moton Bailey argument where the left has repeatedly said you can either have a transgender daughter or a dead son, implying that they will commit suicide suicide, as we know that's not true. Suicidality is depression and thoughts of suicide, not actual attempts.

[Luke Beasley]

Well, because he's in front of the Supreme Court, this person is being very specific about what the research has shown and the sample group is so tiny that yeah, you're not gonna see in how long it's been studied, probably actual suicidal outcomes. But that doesn't take away from if you reduce suicidality you presume that people are less likely to commit suicide.

[Luka Gradowski]

I just think what we do know, whether the science is limited or not, is that desistance rates can be from 65 to 95%. You're familiar with desistance, like regretting it? Not. No, no, no. Detransition would be the result of someone saying, regretting the decision. Desistance is if a kid is 10 and they say they're trans. Desistance is when they simply just stop. So this is extremely common. They say the rates are between 65 and 95.

[Luke Beasley]

Stop what?

[Luka Gradowski]

They stop being gender dysphoric. Oh, yeah, it's called desistance. So they don't go through any medical transition. They don't go through any social transition. They literally just after a few years say, yeah, that's not the case. I don't know.

[Luke Beasley]

And that's, yeah, that's a part of the process that they're walked through.

[Luka Gradowski]

But this is, this is where they should be without any intervention. So if the reality is, let's just go the low end, 65% percent. If 65% of gender support kids desist after puberty, then what's the point of any intervention? The majority desist.

[Luke Beasley]

No. Yeah. Because the other massive percentage left over are the ones who then go through with treatment.

[Luka Gradowski]

Right. So it could be 95. I'm, I'm saying for the sake of argument, we could use 65, but I think it's like 95 desist.

[Luke Beasley]

That makes sense. Like people throughout their life, a pretty large, not large percentage, a much larger percentage of people than who will end up being trans wrestler will have like confusions and dyslexia and then ultimately they exist. Right.

[Luka Gradowski]

Which means if you have two, 10.

[Luke Beasley]

Years, there are people who don't and then those are the ones who end up being trans rest of life. Okay.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah. So then why give chill. We shouldn't, shouldn't give children any treatment or any intervention in any way, whether it be surgical or not.

[Luke Beasley]

Yeah, I'm, I've already articulated my position.

[Luka Gradowski]

So no social transitioning either.

[Luke Beasley]

No, no, no. Oh, no. Well, no. And I'm saying that based on the research that we're getting, if the medical consensus is such that the best thing for the psychological outcome of a child are treatments that we disagree on the reversibility of, then that's probably the best, the best thing.

[Luka Gradowski]

We've gone way over and we have a flight at 6 in the morning, so I've got to wrap it, but I do, I really do appreciate you hanging out and going over with us and coming on and I really do respect that you came here. It is pretty awesome and I'm, I'm glad we found some things we agreed on and I know we've disagreed on a lot and. But I think it's great.

[Phil Labonte]

I really appreciate most of the left.

[Luke Beasley]

Thanks.

[Luka Gradowski]

Yeah, that's why we said before we're like, we like you. You know, there's other guys here, you know, but smash the like button. Share the show with everyone. You know. Become a [e-mail] we're getting on a plane first thing in the morning. So we were supposed to rap and then not do a members only. But I'm, I'm, you know, I'm bad at this. But we had fun. We had fun. We're going to be at amfest tomorrow. You can follow me on Instagram at Tim Cast whatever. I think I said it. Luke, do you want to shout anything out?

[Luke Beasley]

Just Luke Beasley on YouTube is where you find me. Thanks for having me.

[Tim Pool]

Bang y savel now.com is my website. Sign up. We're doing a range day for our members on February 1st. We have a lot of wild shows. We do a lot of really fun stuff for our members. Saveluk now.com Appreciate it.

[Eliyahu]

I am a Eliyahu. Catch me under that. Under all platforms. Luke, thank you so much for being on. You look like you've been through the ringer though. What do you got over there?

[Luke Beasley]

I totally. I've been up. Been up since too early. Sorry I'm crashing hard.

[Phil Labonte]

I am Phil. That remains on Twix where you can subscribe to me. I'm filled. It remains official on Instagram. The band is all that remains on January 31, 2025. Yeah, that's the right date. January 31, 2025. The new records coming out, number 10. It's called Anti fragile. You can go to my X page and you can pre order it. You can go to YouTube, Amazon Music, Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora and Deezer to check out some new music from that you can find forever cold, let you go, no tomorrow and Divine. And don't forget the left lane is for crime. Buy stuff from Luke.

[Luka Gradowski]

I'll just, I'll just wrap with saying I. I do apologize to everybody on not getting through super chats and, and not having it. I felt like there was a lot of great debate, questions and, and ideas that were going through that would just be interrupted by that. And I'm, I, I do, I do genuinely apologize because I feel that is somewhat disrespectful, so I do genuinely apologize. I just felt. Felt like we were on a roll. We were having a good time. We decided we went over half an hour because I thought it was a great opportunity to do so. But I. I appreciate everybody for. For being here and for super chatting. And again, I sincerely apologize.

[Phil Labonte]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everybody.

[Luka Gradowski]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's to everybody. I know it's not much consolation because I know you did super chat, but I just thought we had a great opportunity to keep going. So, again, I sincerely mean it. We'll see you all tomorrow night.

[Phil Labonte]

Let's go.