SCOTUS Hands Trump THIRD MASSIVE WIN w/ Brett Weinstein

Summary

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Timcast IRL – "SCOTUS Hands Trump THIRD MASSIVE WIN"

Date: May 12, 2026
Guest: Brett Weinstein
Host: Tim Pool
Panel: Libby Emmons, Ian Crossland

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on recent Supreme Court decisions that have been considered significant wins for Donald Trump and the GOP, specifically focusing on Alabama's redistricting case and its implications for electoral politics and the broader culture war. Guest Brett Weinstein joins Tim Pool, Libby Emmons, and Ian Crossland to discuss the escalating procedural battles between Republicans and Democrats, judicial activism, questions about representative democracy, and trust in institutions. The conversation also delves into the ethics of gerrymandering, the integrity of the U.S. system, COVID-19 censorship, vaccine technology, and the sudden attention on a hantavirus outbreak.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Supreme Court & Alabama Redistricting

• [09:08] The Supreme Court allowed Alabama to reinstate a redistricting plan that reduced the number of majority-black districts.

  • Tim Pool: “[CNN's] headline: 'Supreme Court allows Alabama to eliminate congressional district held by a black Democrat.' But when Tennessee eliminated a district held by a white Democrat, CNN didn’t care. We know what they’re doing at CNN.”
  • Brett Weinstein: “Redistricting has always been cheating, and that it is now escalating and that the judiciary is weighing in on one side is bad for the US, it's bad for the Republic.” [12:44]

• The panel notes the partisan framing in media coverage and the double standards applied to redistricting depending on which party benefits.

2. Escalation of Partisan Tactics

• [15:41] Libby Emmons highlights how gerrymandering in both blue and red states manipulates power, often at the expense of fair representation.

• [17:37] Tim explains that Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act was always supposed to sunset, echoing Alito’s view that majority-minority districts aren't needed anymore.

• [18:05] Brett notes that affirmative action and similar remedies were intended to be temporary. “We’re rooting for different kinds of cancer that are in competition... redistricting itself is anti-democratic.”

3. Gerrymandering—Symptoms & Solutions

• [24:08] Tim Pool explains how gerrymandering is complex due to non-uniform population distribution and that oddly-shaped districts aren’t always a sign of political manipulation.
  • Ian Crossland: Suggests computer-powered district drawing might improve fairness, but Tim pushes back, noting that blue states manipulate these systems too.
  • Brett Weinstein: “Gerrymandering is anti-democratic, even if it’s a necessary tool in a court-like adversarial system.”

4. Hypocrisy & Partisan Hypocrisy

• [30:07] Virginia Democrats propose lowering retirement ages for judges to replace a full slate and force a court redo after losing a redistricting battle.
  • Libby Emmons: "Why don’t voters notice the hypocrisy?... Democrat voters don’t seem to care." [31:29]
  • Brett Weinstein: “Everybody wants the rules bent when they are asking for something and they want the rules enforced when the other people are asking for something. So we've become a country that views ourselves as teams. That's the cancer I'm talking about.” [34:00]

5. Market, Inequality & Systemic Problems

• [37:49] Brett describes a dynamic where the right overvalues the free market and neglects those who lose (due to bad luck or systemic barriers), whereas the left seeks to overthrow the system, fueling discontent.

  • “Lots of people who are winning in the market are either partly or wholly winning as a result of rent seeking.”

• [44:37] Brett argues the right's stinginess towards those disadvantaged by market failures makes people less invested in society’s preservation.

6. Liberty, Authority, and Moral Frameworks

• The group debates the boundaries of individual liberty, government regulation (from flying cars to drone laws), and how practical limits are often justified by others’ safety or the need for order.
  • [55:00] Libby Emmons: “Doesn’t your liberty end where it begins to infringe on someone else’s rights by law? That’s sort of how it goes.”
  • [58:27] Ian Crossland: Stress-tests liberty with free speech: “If anyone can say anything on any network everywhere, that could be very bad.”

7. Free Speech, COVID, and Censorship

• [61:23] Brett Weinstein: “There’s no idea, no matter how despicable, that shouldn’t be expressible on any platform. And the remedy is to have other people explain why it’s a terrible idea.”

• [63:46] Brett Weinstein: Relates personal experience of suppression: “The government did step in cryptically and said that Heather and I were spreading COVID disinformation... Guess what? We were right and they were doing exactly what they were accusing us of.”

• Tim Pool: Classic liberalism is untenable in an environment where not all communities share foundational beliefs; violence or credible threats of force often override ideals.

8. Medical Ethics & Parental Rights

• [69:49] Should parents have final say over a child's medical treatment? Brett: Yes—up to the point where treatments are clearly maiming (gender surgeries for minors), then an outside authority should intervene.

  • Brett: “Bodies function. The idea that the federal government has the right to mandate an intervention in a functioning human body is absurd... Parents have final say, but not if you have a surgical monster.”

• The debate over the limits of parental and state authority recurs, especially regarding vaccines, experimental treatments, and emerging health scares.

9. Hantavirus Outbreak: Panic, Media & Pharma

• [78:11] Brett dives into the recent hantavirus outbreak on a cruise ship, questioning the official narrative and why such diseases would spread when typically non-contagious between humans.
  • Media is amplifying the story, possibly to fill a “low event volume” news cycle [77:00] or as part of coordinated messaging.
  • Suspicion arises over Moderna’s coincidental spike in stock price after it announces a hantavirus vaccine (up 40% in 3 months) [99:07].
  • Brett: "There’s no reason in the world you’d invest in a hantavirus vaccine unless you thought hantavirus was going to start doing something.” [99:08]

10. COVID Vaccines, mRNA, and Public Trust

• [107:06] Brett Weinstein: Describes mRNA vaccines as “the ultimate cash cow” for pharmaceutical companies but dangerously undirected in the body—“by design, that shot tells your cell to make a foreign protein...if that cell is in your heart, it’s a big deal.”

• The group discusses the difference between traditional vaccines (attenuated virus) and mRNA therapies, with many in the public—and even media—confused about the science.

• Tim Pool: “I’m wondering if the real left right divide is sub 70 IQ versus everyone else...these individuals had no idea the COVID vaccinations were not attenuated virus vaccines.” [108:57]

11. Institutional Censorship & Algorithmic Suppression

• [101:12] Brett Weinstein: Relates how YouTube demonetized and capped growth of his channel after discussing COVID, and only quietly reinstated it after public outcry via Joe Rogan.

• Tim Pool: “The algorithm is driven by sale volume on ads. So if they can't sell ads in your content, then the algorithm won’t promote the content.” [102:19]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Brett Weinstein [13:44]: "Redistricting...it's not in any way new, it has always been cheating, and that it is now escalating and that the judiciary is weighing in on one side is bad for the U.S."
• Tim Pool [34:00]: “We’ve become a country that views ourselves as teams. That’s the cancer I’m talking about.”
• Brett Weinstein [44:37]: "Lots of people who are winning in the market are either partly or wholly winning as a result of rent seeking."
• Libby Emmons [31:29]: "Why don't the voters notice the hypocrisy?"
• Brett Weinstein [61:23]: “There’s no idea, no matter how despicable, that shouldn’t be expressible on any platform.”
• Tim Pool [63:60]: “The issue of course, is the old saying, 'when I am weak, I ask you for rights because it is according to your principles, but when you are weak, I take them from you.' That’s according to mine.”
• Brett Weinstein [75:17]: "You need to compare that little tragedy [someone refusing treatment] to the massive tragedy of people who are killed annually by doctors."
• Brett Weinstein [99:08]: "There’s no reason in the world you’d invest in a hantavirus vaccine unless you thought hantavirus was going to start doing something."
• Brett Weinstein [107:08]: "Anything you load into that mRNA platform is going to be dangerous. It's going to do the same damage to the body that the COVID shots did and it's going to show up in the heart."

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [09:08] – Breakdown of SCOTUS’s Alabama redistricting decision
• [12:44] – Brett calls out the dangers of redistricting escalation and judicial activism.
• [34:00] – Hypocrisy and team-based politics in America.
• [37:49] – Market failures, social contract, and the disaffected.
• [55:00] – Debating the practical limits of liberty and regulation.
• [61:23] – Limits of free speech, dangers vs. necessity for open debate.
• [69:49] – Parental rights vs. state intervention in medical decisions.
• [78:11] – Hantavirus outbreak analysis—media, science, and pharma.
• [101:12] – YouTube & algorithmic censorship during COVID era.
• [107:08] – mRNA platform dangers explained.
• [124:44] – Evolutionary role of music; culture & development.

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Tone & Dynamics

• The conversation is intense, combative, and deeply skeptical—especially of centralized authority, legacy media, and big pharma.
• Brett Weinstein brings a data-driven, evolutionary biology perspective and consistently argues for universal values, though acknowledging the growing gap in shared morality.
• The rest of the panel is more cynical about the intentions of the “other side,” voicing frustration at hypocrisy and bad-faith actors.

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Conclusion

This Timcast IRL episode offered an in-depth look at the continuing collapse of trust in American institutions—whether the courts, the media, or public health authorities. Major Supreme Court rulings are viewed less as impartial applications of law and more as victories or corrections in a deepening culture war. Brett Weinstein advocates for principled universalism and humility in authority, stressing the importance of protecting the rights of the individual even amid social upheaval. Meanwhile, Tim Pool, Libby Emmons, and Ian Crossland voice increasingly hard-edged skepticism about the motives and competence of institutions and political actors alike.

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Find Brett Weinstein at:

• Dark Horse Podcast
• X: @BrettWeinstein (one 'T')
• Book: A Hunter Gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century

Next Episode: Aftershow on rumble.com/timcastirl (uncensored portion continues)

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Transcript

[Tim Pool]

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[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

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[Libby Emmons]

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[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

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[Brett Weinstein]

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[Libby Emmons]

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[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

In another massive victory for the GOP and Donald Trump, the Supreme Court issued what it's be calling a sudden ruling granting Alabama the right to redistrict, which means one by one, the dominoes are falling and the Democrats is cooked. Now in Virginia, it's really funny. Instead of just realizing they've lost, they've decided to come up with some nuclear options. One is to force the retirement age of Supreme Court justice in the state to 54 years old, just old enough to eliminate all of their justices. I guess as a fu, they're just going down with the ship. Donald Trump may have some polling issues, but the way this procedural war is going, the Republicans are certainly winning. And then there's the question of Donald Trump's election integrity army that they intend to dispatch across the country. I'm wondering if it's gonna have an impact in the California races as well. Spencer Pratt is skyrocketing in public notability. And there is this attack ad that I thought was a parody pro. I thought, I thought Spencer Pratt made this ad that was a gag meant to act like it was insulting him. But in fact, it's actually an attack ad where it's like, Spencer Pratt doesn't want to spend taxpayer dollars on housing for our unhoused neighbors. And I was like, ha, very funny, Spencer. It turns out, no, it's actually a group that doesn't like the guy and they just made an ad that accidentally supports him. So we'll talk about that. Donald Trump wants to make Venezuela the 51st state. I guess it's not gonna happen, but it's funny anyway. And then hantaviruses here in the United States, I guess, which we'll talk about it, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm not. You know, everybody's freaking out, but we'll see what happens. We'll talk about that more before we get started. We got a great sponsor for you guys. It is pockethose.com Pocket Oz is the number one expandable hose in the world. Super lightweight, easy to manage, easy to store. Turn the water on and it grows. Turn the water off and it shrinks back to pocket size. The pocket O's ballistic is reinforced with liquid crystal polymer used in bulletproof vests, making the anti burr sleeve practically bulletproof. And that liquid crystal polymer fiber is actually five times stronger than steel. Comes with the pocket pivot which gives you total freedom of movement at the spigot. With 360 rotation, you move, it follows and the water flows. Enhanced with an upgraded UV coating so the hose looks new year after year. Re engineered thicker washers that resist leaks. Pocket hose carries over 100 patents worldwide. And now for a limited time, when you purchase a new pocket hose ballistic, you get a free 360 degrees rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle. Just text TIM to 64,000. That's TIM to 64,000. For your two free gifts with purchase, text TIM to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. Shadow pocketos don't forget to also go to timcast.com and join the community. Tens of thousands of people hang out every single day and they need you because people need to stand up, get involved, be active in this space. It only takes a handful of people to change the world and we've got more than [e-mail] building new shows, making music, making shorts, whatever you want to do, you will find people in there that can assist in some way. And more importantly, you would be standing up and supporting the work we do and getting involved. So don't just sit idly by. Don't let the world pass you by. Join [e-mail], you'll be supporting this show and everything we do. Also, don't forget to smash that like button. Share the show with everyone you know. Joining us tonight to talk about this and so much more, we have Brett Weinstein.

[Brett Weinstein]

Very excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Tim.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Who are you? What do you do?

[Brett Weinstein]

Oh, I'm an evolutionary biologist. I taught for 14 years at the Evergreen State College. Actually, you and I, we did a

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

little documentary about it.

[Brett Weinstein]

You did a documentary on it? Yeah, I have been podcasting, authoring, public speaking, that sort of thing. I host the Dark Horse podcast. We do one live every week, me and my wife, Heather Hyang. That's where people would know me.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah. Well, it's great to have you. Welcome.

[Ian Crossland]

I think we've had.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It's been years since we've had you back.

[Brett Weinstein]

It has been quite a while.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Quite a while. But it's great to have you. Your insights will prove invaluable. Good sir.

[Brett Weinstein]

Let's hope so.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It's going to. Yeah, absolutely. Libby's hanging out.

[Libby Emmons]

I'm here. I'm glad to be here with you guys. I'm Libby Emmons, editor in chief of the Post Millennial. I have a podcast, the Pod Millennial. You can check it out@the podmillennial.com I'm

[Ian Crossland]

Ian Crosland and Brett. Dude, your stuff kept me sane during COVID You and Heather did a lot of excellent biologic work research on what was going on. Also, when you and Jordan Peterson did that episode with Rogan in, it was a very dark time in humanity. I feel like that was like a, like a moment where I started to feel like there's hope for the human part of what's happening right now. There's a lot of common sense in that conversation and that, that, that Joe brought you guys to the forefront like that. After the Evergreen debacle and Peterson got canceled, it was like, thank God. Thank you for coming.

[Brett Weinstein]

I'm really happy to be here. And I'm really glad that episode with Rogan reached you. It actually, interestingly, we talked in that about Jordan and I did a very deep dive on what the meaning of Hitler and Hitlerian like characters is, and it actually resulted in a student reaching out to me who was doing his PhD on the Holocaust and I actually became his PhD advisor. He has now done dissertation research on some of the ideas that we presented in that podcast. So it's it.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Oh, wow.

[Brett Weinstein]

It's a demonstration that actually this podcast stuff causes interesting changes in the world.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Positively super powerful.

[Brett Weinstein]

Also really pumped that you're here. I watched Benjamin Boyce's entire series on the Evergreen debacle, and it's really cool that you're here. So let's get into it.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Let's get the news. We've got this from cnn. Supreme Court allows Alabama to eliminate congressional district held by a black Democrat. You know what I love about this headline is that when Tennessee eliminated the district held by a white man, we didn't get that kind of headline. They didn't say, supreme Court allows Tennessee to eliminate congressional district held by a white Democrat. Because we know what they're doing at cnn. This is Supreme Court's conservative majority on Monday cleared the way for Alabama to revert to a congressional map with one majority black district in a sudden ruling that drew a dissent from the court's three liberal justices. We have that ruling right here.

[Brett Weinstein]

Now.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I will say, wow, the Supreme Court justices are just ramming these things through. I gotta say I'm surprised to see it, but it looks like the Supreme Court conservatives have joined the fray and are actually now deciding to stand up for this country. We've got this ruling right here. It's relatively short. The motions to expedite are granted, the petition for a writ of certiorari before judgment is granted, the judgment of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Alabama in that case is vacated and the cases remanded to the U.S. court of Appeals for the 11th district, etc. Etc. Today, the court vacates a district court order and joining Alabama's 2023 redistricting plan and remands for reconsideration in light of the Court's new interpretation. I just want of section 2 of the V. I just want to real, real really quickly stress these states were trying to redistrict before we got to this point in 2026. And they were blocked by, by lawsuits and the Biden DOJ.

[Libby Emmons]

Alabama was trying to redistrict from the census in 2020.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Right. So we have here. This is their dissent. Justice Sotomayor, with whom Justice Kagan and Justice Jackson join, dissenting, they say there's no reason to do so. In addition to holding that Alabama's 2023 district in plan violates Section 2 of the district court, held in one of three cases before this court that Alabama violated the 14th Amendment and intentionally diluting the votes of black voters in Alabama, that constitutional finding of intentional discrimination is independent of and unaffected by any of the legal issues discussed in Calais Vacateur is thus inappropriate and will will cause only confusion as Alabamians begin to vote in the election scheduled for next week, I respectfully dissent. I think it's plain to see at this point they are not playing the decorum game, which in 2020 they very much did and said, we're not going to look over this Texas v. Pennsylvania thing. It's not gonna change the outcome. We're not gonna do it. Usually what we see in these lawsuits, they say, well, we don't want to affect an election underway, so we'll just. Next time around this time the Supreme Court conservative just like, nah, run it through. We don't care.

[Libby Emmons]

Well, it's good that some conservatives are actually taking some action.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yes, indeed. The final, the final, the final paragraph. The court today unceremoniously discards the district courts meticulously documented and supported discriminatory intent finding and careful remedial order without any sound basis for doing so without regard for the confusion that will surely ensue. And with all vegatures of this kind of the court, the district court remains free on remand to decide for itself whether Calais has any bearing on its 14th Amendment analysis of its prior reasoning is, or if its prior reasoning is unaffected by the decision. So, wow, we are in a culture war. And I see us just, I guess, what is it? The exponential momentum towards physical violence and civil war?

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, I think, you know, that's a. Will you.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You think civil war.

[Brett Weinstein]

Do I think we will actually get to a hot civil war? I don't know. We've obviously been in something like a cold civil war. I must say, as much as I fear the Democrats returning to power, I think they are a diabolical party at this point. I also think that this is a bit of a tragedy, that redistricting, it's not in any way new, it has always been cheating, and that it is now escalating and that the judiciary is weighing in on one side is. Is bad for the US it's bad for the Republic. And so, you know, you can call me naive, but I would like to live in a country where we agree that actually we want to poll the electorate and discover what they want in terms of governance and not go outside and, you know, draw funny lines on a map in order to wield power. Now, that's not the country we live in, but it should be.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, here's Chicago, which I just, I just love in terms of their congressional districts and how they make no sense, but are specifically designed to maximize power in, in certain ways. You look at the whole of the state. Illinois is just one example. The Pacific. I'm not, I'm sorry, not the Pacific, but the, the Northeast, Massachusetts, all of it, a really obvious example of just the political manipulations to steal power. So I'm actually just. I shrug. I see. You know, Kyle Kalinsky is just throwing up every day all over himself on X. Be like, they're fascist. Oh God. And I'm like, well, I guess I just don't care anymore. You know, look at this district right here. Just, can we just. This point this one out right here, which takes this south of Chicago conservative area and just slides it up on into the city to make sure it's Democrat.

[Libby Emmons]

Okay, well, that's what Spanberger's new map was trying to do, right? I mean, it was trying to have like what, five districts or something start all in Alexandria, Arlington, so that those rural areas were lumped in with Democrats. The thing that you mentioned too, about Tennessee and Tennessee's 9th is the person who's representing the incumbent in Tennessee's 9th is Steve Cohen, I think his name is. And he's a white guy. He's a Democrat. And Justin Pearson, who's a very outspoken Tennessee state senator who's always going into Nashville and throwing a fit about something other, whether it's trans or gun control or something else. He is running against Cohen in the 9th district as it was prior to this new redistricting. And now that it's going to be, you know, it's likely more Republican. What they don't want you to know is that the person who's gonna win that her name is Charlotte, Charlotte Bergman, and she's a black woman, She's a black Republican. So they're talking about how it's Jim Crow because they really wanted Justin Pearson, but instead they're gonna get this black woman instead.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, maybe not. The structure of the district is splitting it into three different districts. So we don't know exactly who will be able to represent these new. Like the 9th.

[Libby Emmons]

We'll have to see.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm still feeling like the Supreme Court decision was a bad one because they say you can't.

[Libby Emmons]

You mean the Louisiana calais?

[Ian Crossland]

No, the U.S. supreme Court. Is that what it is, Calais? That says you can't do it by race. But the thing is, they're going to be like, oh, really? Okay, then it's just by political affiliation and they'll do the exact same district.

[Libby Emmons]

That's what they said is okay.

[Ian Crossland]

And now that everyone's got free rein to just fully redistrict everything.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

They don't. Not just now. They always had that ability.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, I know.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

That's why I'm highlighting Illinois and Chicago.

[Ian Crossland]

What's that?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

That's why I showed Chicago it was always the case you could gerrymander in this way. Yeah, which is why people have always complained about gerrymandering and the eliminating 5% of the problem is a good thing. Net positive.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't think it actually, it looks like it was a problem that they got rid of. But the reality is you can have the same exact district and say it was just by political affiliation, even if it was originally by race. So you can lie and, and this just gives people the ability to district.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You can't.

[Ian Crossland]

I mean, it's like almost a one to one correlation.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Sometimes you are incorrect. That can't happen based on the arguments of the woke left and their parity, national parity argument. So if you have a district that has at this point greater than 13%, then someone's going to make an argument of black people are going to make the argument that it's either over or underrepresenting a certain race.

[Ian Crossland]

But you can't, you can't go the inverse either. It's racist to say you can't have more than 13%.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

That's 1965. When they said that, they ruled you have to have a majority black district, otherwise you're being racist then. Now they're saying you can't use race as the predeterminant factor as to why you created this.

[Ian Crossland]

It sounds like the Supreme Court's just tying up some loose ends as we transition to the new world Order. And then they're going to be like, okay, okay, you can redistrict back to. You make. You can have whatever races you want. It doesn't matter anymore. But for now, like, they're. They're shoring up the.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

No, no. The argument literally was, we don't need this policy anymore. Alito literally stated back then it made sense based on the structure and the nature of our society and culture. But the framers of this law intended for there to be some kind of sun setting. And at this point, we don't need to have districts based on race. In fact, the only guarantee a person should have is that they will not have their district gerrymandered based on their race.

[Brett Weinstein]

And that's actually true to the spirit of affirmative action. It was always supposed to be a temporary remedy, and it became a permanent feature. And so in that way, you can argue that this decision is good. On the other hand, at some level, it's like we're rooting for different kinds of cancer that are in competition, right? The redistricting is in and of itself anti democratic, you know, in the small D sense, and we should be concerned.

[Tim Pool]

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[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

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[Brett Weinstein]

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[Brett Weinstein]

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[Ian Crossland]

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[Brett Weinstein]

for free and finally breathe about the fact that this midterm election was headed in one direction and that this may substantially change the calculus. Not because anybody's opinion was changed.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I actually we don't care. And the argument is that illegal immigrants padding the electoral College and congressional seats for blue states by upwards of being nice. On the low end, two to four congressional seats, four Democrats they should not have and on the high end, upwards of 12 seats they should not have. And I'm not talking about the vra, I'm talking about when you look at there's the third way. They did an analysis on does illegal immigration increase the amount of Democrat held seats? And they said actually when you look at the data, California may gain one seat, but Texas gains one seat as well. Therefore it's one Democrat, one Republican. There we go. The only problem is the seat in Texas is in an urban area, largely around Austin, which creates another Democrat district. So yes, illegal immigrants tend to be moved towards cities where they could create urban Democratic congressional districts, even in red states. So when the Republicans say we are going to redistrict to eliminate past injustice, I say sure, these black majority majority minority districts should not exist. And so I'm happy to see that stopped.

[Brett Weinstein]

I don't disagree with you, but to

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

your point to address it, I grew up in Illinois. That's where I'm from. The Democrats have eliminated Republicans largely from the state and they've maximized their power. Even though the state is almost entirely conservative leaning, they've controlled it for 100 plus years. You look at the Northeast all the same, I think I view it this way. If there was an issue of me and Ian largely get along on most things, we're never violent, we don't fight. We may disagree, but it's always afterwards we're Hanging out, we're eating cheeseburgers together. If someone in this area or the governing authority or the police came and said, Ian now is going to be discriminated against for a particular reason, I would stand up against that, as he is a member of my community. Communists aren't evil. People who have tried putting the front runner for election in prison are not part of my community. This multicultural democracy they've been building is the antithesis of the constitutional republic we live in. So at this point I just say, I may be opposed to war, to violence and these things, but in the issue of self preservation and defense, I'm fine with it.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, this is actually exactly the point I was gonna make, is that I'm sure all of us are against killing people, but when you're at war, you're actually for killing people because it's necessary. If one side is against killing people and the other is for killing people, the side that's for killing people wins. And so the world becomes more that way. And so the fact is, we're living in a circumstance where we have to be rooting for one cancer or another. But it doesn't mean that we can't look at it and say, actually it's a tragedy that this is how the battle is playing out. What we should be battling for is to end this nonsense. Gerrymandering is anti Democratic. And even though it's like a court, right. We may all be against people making fallacious arguments, but in a court, actually justice depends on each side doing so with equal strength. Right? You have two sides both trying to distort the truth, and hopefully the actual truth emerges from between it. And in this case, we should be rooting for actual democracy to emerge from this dysfunctional and anti.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But, but I'll stress, it is not the Republicans in the past several decades that have been engaging in anti Democratic or anti anti Republicanist behavior. And so I view this all as a correction toward the better. So I wouldn't call it cancer.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, no, it's a correction, but the point is it's a correction for an injustice that has you animated. And I agree. I don't want to see one side put down their arms in the redistricting battle. But. But I do want us to all recognize it's bad for the thing that we value.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So the, the issue of gerrymandering. Gerrymandering is interesting. Typically when people refer to gerrymandering, you're talking about the process by which you construct a party dominant congressional district or district in general politically for, for that purpose. However, the problem I see with it is is sometimes districts should not be just blocks. They're going to look weird and, and you'll be accused of gerrymandering.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right, I, I agree with that.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So let me, let me give you an example. If we take a look at Illinois. I love this. See this district right here? Illinois 13IL and that was the possessive. I know it's not Illinois. This is Illinois's 13th district. It makes no sense. It's just connecting. What is it? Champagne Urbana and like Springfield and East St. Louis. This manufactures a Democrat district. This district, Illinois's 17th district combines Rockford with. What is that? That might be pure. I'm not sure is manufacturer. As a Democrat district. That makes no sense. The lives of the people who live in this area are the same as the people who live right next to them. But the cities are distinct. And so what the state did was they crafted these to ensure they would get extra Democrat seats for the National Congress. Now at the same time you can look if we go down to like Texas and you can see an oddly shaped district. Like, you know, this one's long and it touches in this way. These are largely seen as much more fair. But the important thing to understand because we have this. I was having this conversation. I can't remember what might have been met. Gates and the issue. Actually no it wasn't Matt Gates. I can't remember what it was. The issue is that humans don't live in blocks of, of the same populations. So districts are always going to be oddly shapen in some way because you're going to have an urban center and you're going to have a disparate rural demography. So that means if you just made a congressional district a square, it might only have 35,000 people in it. And that's not proportional to. It's got to be 775.

[Ian Crossland]

Feel like we can develop heat maps for, for zones for. What are these called districts that, where you can use. I don't know, I don't want to say like artificial intelligence is the end is like the solution everything but you can.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

They do that.

[Ian Crossland]

You can vote by your vicinity and it doesn't have to be in a sphere or a circle. It can like travel like through paths of least resistance to find the balance to make these, these, these districts without having to get some crudely drawn thing.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

This is exactly what they do. They use computers that draw up districts. The only problem is in most blue states they manipulate them to gain power. They bring in Illegal immigrants to gain power. The general idea, at least in my moral worldview of a congressional district, is that it's supposed to represent people who live similarly and their, and, and, and their political whims. So if you look at Louisiana, for instance, you can see here that the third district is the shore. That's beautiful. If you live on the water, you are gonna have a similar life experience and goals to the other people who live on the water based on flooding, on shrimping or fisheries or whatever it is you might be doing. The idea that they're gonna create a district just for black people because they're black is the most insane thing imaginable.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, I think a lot of these come from, like where you have. The city has like nine districts is from like the time of better men where you had the plebs that ate garbage and they had terrible IQ because they had no nutrition. And then, you know, all the rich, wealthy men that ran the show behind the scenes. And so you got these vestiges of people that think they're in charge. But like now with the Internet and high access to nutrients, like, even people in these, these red farmer districts are, can be pretty brilliant. And so the age of like, consolidating power in the city, I think is sort of coming to a close.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

The next big move, of course, South Carolina lawmakers will take up the proposed congressional map tomorrow, eliminating a Democrat seat and creating a solid red state. And guess which South Carolina politician opposes this?

[Ian Crossland]

Graham.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You are correct. Lindsey Graham urges caution. Is South Carolina radiation you push. Oh, here we go. While it's gonna invalidate Earl, it's got a Democrat. What is this? How is this guy a Republican?

[Libby Emmons]

So he's just, he's just been incumbent that long, you know.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

He's the worst.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah, he's terrible.

[Ian Crossland]

I want to mute him. We gotta, we gotta get him on the show. Dude.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Lindsay, you know why he won't do it? Because people who, whose ideas can't withstand scrutiny don't come on shows like this.

[Libby Emmons]

That's true.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, I'll go on your show then.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Lindsay, does he have a show?

[Ian Crossland]

I don't know. Not yet. But maybe he will.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah, that would, that would be a three minute edited piece where he would edit out any bad questions you ask him, Right? Indeed. Yeah.

[Libby Emmons]

I mean, it's interesting too. We're seeing this happen in red states and it will match a lot of what's going on in the blue states. Like the entirety of New England is blue. And when you look at the voting numbers there, it's like each state is 40 to 43% Republican voters. And then people complain about, like, you know, they say West Virginia is gerrymandered or whatever. And they tell you about all of these red states where there's no blue districts. And a lot of those are either one or two senators at the most. And West Virginia is pretty evenly divided just in half.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Let's jump to the story from Axios. I love this. So we saw the news. Supreme Court of Virginia said, you will not redistrict. Some woman went out screaming and pointing at the court building. The argument is you can't just, you know, ignore your Constitution when you try to change the rules and ice out half of the population, which Virginia tried to do, and it didn't work. And now Virginia Democrats are discussing a court overhaul. The strategy will be to. Let me just read it behind the scenes. Some Democrats considered going further. After a Friday article by the Down Ballot, a progressive outlet proposed lowering the retirement age for Virginia judges from 73 to 54 and installing new justices to rehear the case. I say let's go do it.

[Libby Emmons]

Crazy.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I'd be so excited if they did. Why, they'd effectively invalidate every argument they made in 2020.

[Libby Emmons]

Right? Yeah.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

The argument about whether or not there. The right of the state, of the state legislature to hold and conduct their elections as they see fit shall be upheld. The argument made by Democrats was that the courts and the governor can overrule what the legislature wants to do. Now, this. This question was never answered in Texas v. Pennsylvania because the Supreme Court was too cowardly to answer the question. Which leads us to this conflicted circumstance which Democrats wish. Wish they had answered now because the issue would now be when the judges said, no, you can't. The argument from the Virginia Democrats is then we have to physically remove these people and overhaul them. If they were to do that, they would surely face a battle from the DOJ or from the Supreme Court. It would just be legal catastrophe. A legal catastrophe to which the Democrats would have to argue the judiciary has no right to. Actually, you know what? I'm gonna pause. They're already doing it. They're already arguing the judiciary has no right to overturn the will of the voters in a referendum, despite the fact they argued the inverse in 2020. So I'm just loving the hypocrisy, but the desperation is palpable.

[Libby Emmons]

Why don't the voters notice the hypocrisy? You know, Democrat voters don't notice and they don't seem to care. And there's there's countless instances of hypocrisy over and over.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah, well, they don't seem to care.

[Libby Emmons]

They don't seem to care. Did you see the thing recently where Spanberger said that whoever. That Virginia's electoral college votes will go to whoever wins the popular vote nationally, regardless. Regardless. Just regardless. I mean, that seems like really overturning the will of Virginia's voters and selling them out.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

This is why, you know, before the show, we were talking about having kids and hospitals. I said, if you're gonna have a kid, you gotta go to Loudoun county or like the Fairfax Loudoun area, where the Deep State is holed up. Because we'll come back to this, but I'm just gonna throw it out there.

[Ian Crossland]

That's where they use crispr.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

No, I'm only gonna briefly mention this before we get to this later on in the show, but every story I've heard about a baby being born in some other hospital in like any other state, the doctors come in and say, you have to get these shots. You have to get these vaccines. They separate the parents and coerce them. They tell one parent, we're gonna do these shots. When the parent says no, they go, but the other parent already said yes. And the other parent actually said no. You go to Deep State Home Front, which is, you know, Loud and Fairfax. That's where my daughter was born. Doctors were like, no, you're good. And we were like, should we get anything? No, you don't gotta worry about it. Not, not even a joke. She'll have superhuman vision. They were like, no, any, any, any vaccine. Whatever you want. Nothing. Nothing. You're good. So in this area in Virginia, we'll come back to that. To your point about they're going to give the vote whoever they want. This is the Deep State headquarters. Rules for thee and not for me. They do whatever they want.

[Libby Emmons]

That's why it's the. These are the richest counties in the entire country. The one surrounding D.C. yeah, well, obviously, if it's the country, then it's the world. But, you know, Fairfax, Loudon and a couple of them in Maryland, and you're just like, looking at it and you're like, what? You're all just fleecing us and living in these beautiful homes and you can drive through Loudoun county and it's like you can smell money.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, it's very easy to make money if you know what's going to happen before everyone, right? And if you can listen in on all of their conversations and know, you know, what they're going to do, right.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You know, it's real fascinating that Trump made that. He made a declaration about energy infrastructure and instantly a bunch of key infrastructure energy providers saw a massive spike in their stock value. But it was just before Trump made the announcement. But, you know, whatever. But anyway, I'm sorry.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I wanted to go back to the hypocrisy point because I think the hypocrisy is universal and the rule is obvious. Everybody wants the rules bent when they are asking for something and they want the rules enforced when the other people are asking for something. So we've become a country that views ourselves as teams. That's the cancer I'm talking about. And you can imagine a country and in fact, I think we have at other moments in history had a country that was much closer to imagining we all want the same things. We want to be stronger, we want to be more prosperous, we want to have a more educated, better taken care of population. And we disagree over policy, how to get there. And we've so lost that that it's impossible not to root for the team that's closer to your values and root against the others. So, you know there's a question about the Rawlsian veil of ignorance, right? John Rawls said you shouldn't want to make a rule that you wouldn't want to live on the wrong side.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

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[Brett Weinstein]

We should want the rules that we're happy with when we're down and we're also happy with them when we're up and we need to get back to being a country that does that.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I disagree, though, but clarify for me. Maybe I misunderstood that. We all disagree on the policies.

[Brett Weinstein]

We generally, in general, we should all want the country to be strong. We should want the population to be well taken care of. We should want disease managed well. We should want good information about our health. Those are. Those should be universal. And then we might disagree about what the policies are that are likely to lead us there.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

We do.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, no, we also now disagree over the values. We are rooting against each other.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, my point is, you and I, we. Oh, yeah, we do. Libby and I do. Ian and I, you and Libby, we largely agree on most things with minor differences, and we are beside on all sides by political factions that don't actually want anything good. Half of them want to extract power for themselves. The other half want to extract status and appear virtuous. And they are willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill to get it.

[Ian Crossland]

I feel like this. I want to preserve the system I think we're talking about is maintain a system that's honorable, that will function no matter where you are within that system. But because there's been such a barrage on the system from outside, from Chinese AI, who knows where, all this global misinformation is coming in and twisting people's minds and making them think Trump is Hitler and they hate this person. And I'm afraid that, like, maybe the system, like Abraham Lincoln, he suspended habeas corpus. That's so far outside of my wheelhouse of reality of what I think I would do. But he did it, and he's considered one of the greatest presidents ever. So are we looking at another moment in time like that? And if so, I don't want to be the guy that pushes the button to start in action. But what do you think, Brett?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I want to put a model on the table that's a level up from what we're talking about. That I think explains it. There's a. There's a problem on the right and there's a problem on the left, and the two of them are functioning in a dynamic. The problem on the right is that the right believes the mythology of the market much more strongly than it should. The market is the best tool we've ever come up with to figure out how to accomplish things. Nothing competes with the market in terms of its ability to figure out that question. But the market is beset by a tremendous amount of market failure. Lots of people who are winning in the market are either partly or wholly winning. As a result of rent seeking. And lots of people who are losing are losing for reasons that have nothing to do with their willingness to do the right thing. So the right is stingy with respect to taking care of the losers in our competitive system. And there will always be losers. What we should want is a system that takes care of people who lose, who want to do the right thing. They want to compete, but doesn't happen to go well. We should want everybody to have access to the market. What we have is a system in which the stinginess on the right and the failure to recognize the amount of corruption that there is and the amount of wealth that is generated by it is causing a large fraction of the population to correctly understand that they are not going to win. We have a competitive system and they are born into losing and they have no interest in preserving the system. So what you're talking about, the people who want to overthrow the system do want to overthrow the system and we are under attack because of it. But we have to understand that both sides are playing a role in that dynamic.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But I would half disagree with you and I would be interested in your response to the right thing isn't universal. And doing the right thing sometimes defies what people want. In which case to instill upon them something they don't want would be the wrong thing. So I'll give you an example of a non market circumstance which we should not support. And that's, and I'll use a bit of absurdity, and that would be asparagus flavored ice cream. In fact, I'm sure someone's made it not the worst thing, but it's fairly bad. But asparagus is good for you. Ice cream tends to be bad for you. I'm gonna do the right thing. I'm gonna give people a dessert that is good for them. But guess what? I'm a loser in the market. You should take care of me. You should have to give me a portion of your labor because I'm doing the right thing.

[Libby Emmons]

Like solar.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, it turns out ice cream is way better for you than we thought because everything told us about our health was a lie. But let's put that aside. That's true. I agree with you. I don't want to be. I don't want to have a system that tells people what to do. I want a system that protects people from true bad luck and exposes them to the results of their bad decisions.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, define true bad luck.

[Brett Weinstein]

True bad luck is you make a gamble in the market, it's a Good gamble. Let's say it has a 75% chance of panning out, but the dice come up with the 25%.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But what do you mean like someone taking cash and putting in a market, in a stock, or do you mean like running a business?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, no, when you put money into the stock market, right, you need to suffer the downside of your judgment, including the 25% chance that it's going to go in the wrong direction, even if you calculate it correctly. But let's say that we have a level of pesticide use that causes a certain number of cancers. And let's say you didn't do anything to increase your exposure to this pesticide. But you're one of the unlucky people who gets a cancer. We ought to take care of you, right? I'm lucky I didn't get it. You're unlucky. And so you know, that's the nature.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

There's a moral challenge in that. How do we prove the source of your cancer?

[Brett Weinstein]

I'm not arguing that I know of a system that can do this, but I'm saying idea. Well, no, I'm arguing about what we should want the system to do. We should want it to protect you from real bad luck, that is, you weren't involved in what happened that, that befell you, right? Lightning struck your house. You didn't put your house in a particularly lightning prone place. But we should want to expose you to the results of your bad decision making. That causes people to get smarter. And it means that when you're the unlucky one and the dice go the wrong way, you know, we come together and rebuild your barn.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Where I agree with you is that there will be a firefighter's pension and it's gotta be invested somewhere. It's not just gonna sit in cash in a bank account. And so with all good intentions, it's placed into a series of just some funds. And unfortunately, many of those companies go bust. The pension loses a large portion of its value. And these hardworking men and women, who all had good intentions, thought they made a sound investment, are now hurt because of it. And we are facing hardworking retirees who now don't know how they're going to pay their bills, despite doing everything right, versus a guy who is buddies with a member of Congress who whispers to him, we're going to vote on this bill tomorrow. Go put a bunch of, you know, go, go short this stock and you'll make a billion dollars. There are people that do nothing for society but the wrong thing and extract through the market value and live like kings while hardworking men and women every day don't have access to these systems and suffer because of it.

[Libby Emmons]

Something like, what about the people who lost everything because they invested with Madoff? They believed they were doing the right thing. They looked at his receipts, they looked at his. They didn't realize he had that sixth floor where he was, you know, rigging up fake stock printouts.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You know, I think. I think the answer to that is insurance, Some kind of insurance. The. But the argument, should you be.

[Libby Emmons]

If you are investing in, you know, investment funds, should you be required to take out some sort of investment fund insurance?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, if we're gonna bail out the elites when they engage in this, then we should bail out the little guy, right?

[Libby Emmons]

Bail out the people who.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

The problem is, bail out the little guy is exponentially more expensive than the elites.

[Libby Emmons]

And the other thing, too, is, no,

[Brett Weinstein]

I don't think this is necessarily true. When we. Let's say we look at too big to fail, right? Too big to fail was never, never properly adjudicated. Right? The fact is, too big to fail is a correct argument at one level. That institution, if it fails, we will suffer more than if we prop it up. But that does not require you to prop up the people who steered it into trouble. Those people should have gone to jail. So because we didn't do that, what we ended up doing was bailing out not just those institutions that we would have suffered more for allowing to fail, but we bailed out the people who made the bad decisions, guaranteeing that those decisions would be revisited on us in a future context, like right now. So this is the point is this. None of this is as hard to solve as it seems. It's being made hard to solve by people who are winning disproportionately, not because of insight, not because of hard work. They are winning because they have power with which to seek rent.

[Ian Crossland]

And I think they. That's the intention, is that they are stripping the wealth from the United States through the corporate upward mobility, taking it away from common man, lower and middle class to incite a communist revolution within the United States so that the United States will destroy itself so that they can centralize power in Switzerland with the bank of International Settlements.

[Brett Weinstein]

This is my point about stinginess on the right. We're not gonna pay attention to the suffering of people who are unable to compete in the market because they ate garbage food, because their water was poisoned, because the schools were never properly constructed to educate, right? Those people discover when they reach adulthood. Hey, I am structured to lose in a system in which the winners take from the losers. Why would those people act to preserve the system? They have no incentive.

[Ian Crossland]

I think because it's the least worst system ever made.

[Brett Weinstein]

Not for them.

[Ian Crossland]

But if they truly understood the other economic orders that have come before, they

[Brett Weinstein]

would know it'd be very different. It'd be very different if you were a loser in this system. But you realized actually I can better my station through hard work, right? If you had that system, it wouldn't make sense to overthrow it. Because you're right. The horror that will be visited on us if the system collapses is unthinkably bad. But you have a large number of people who have too little stake in the system to care.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I do think there's a bit of projection in your argument though. What if you're a transhumanist, you believe that there are stupid people who deserve to work at McDonald's and when they fail, it's a good thing and they should lose because the ultimate end goal should be a headlong rush into transhumanism, sacrificing the weaker for the stronger. You're not going to want the same world you want. And their moral worldview is that they're just. Now, of course we can call that evil, but they're not going to exist in the same moral framework that you are.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I believe their model of what makes people capable is in error and self serving. That actually the amount of this that has anything to do with genetic differences between us is tiny. And the amount of it that has to do with mistreating people during development even before they're born, is so large that actually if you did have a system in which didn't matter what zip code you lived in, your water was clean, that would do a huge piece of the heavy lifting. If you made sure that everybody had proper actual food, which only rich people can even access now, you would see these fundamental differences disappear. And then the question is, how good is the developmental environment that your family and your school provide for you?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I'm not saying that there's an argument to be made about nature versus nurture. I'm saying that there are wealthy, powerful individuals who probably agree with everything you just said. And they say, and still human beings are limited. And we have to expand this through neuralink and through technological advancement for which the sacrifice of humans and cobalt mines and sulfur mines is worth every. Every cent.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, I just don't think they understand or care to understand what actually motivates humans and What I've learned in traveling the world and dealing with people, many different continents, many different economic strata, is that people basically want the same things.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Oh, no, no, no. Agreed. Okay. And there are powerful elites that know this, but view you like a chicken.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Chickens, all largely one thing. The wants and desires of chickens are immaterial to me because I want to build AI data data centers and turn myself into a machine that can fly around the universe.

[Brett Weinstein]

That's exactly right. I want to ruin neighborhoods because I will benefit from doing so and it won't be mine.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, they. Again, right, so we agree on that point. Your point about the world that we want to build is challenged by those that will lie to us and destroy what we want, manipulating our motivations and desires 100%.

[Brett Weinstein]

And that's my point, is that we are actually being had by those exact forces. They are causing us to get in the ring and fight people who aren't our natural enemies. Right. We need to fight that power and we need to have. I mean, I know this sounds naive, but, you know, frankly, 50 years ago it wouldn't. We need a system in which we make rules that are good irrespective of whether you're on the upside of them or the downside.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I again half agree. And I think because it is idealistic, maybe as you even stated, a bit naive. The challenge is we have consistently been on the side of those who just wanna be left alone. We want the rules to work for us and they're exploited by the likes of these liberals, these Democrats, these big tech companies. And so every step of the way, as we've been trying to implement this rules for all they've been playing, no rules for me, and we get crushed because of it.

[Brett Weinstein]

Oh, I don't disagree with that. And what I would say is actually, you know, it's not as hard as you would think to list the values that we all agree on. Right? It's not that hard. And I think the top value is that the test of a policy, any policy, is whether it liberates individuals in the long term, I would say.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What does that mean?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, if you. Let's take the fire department to take, you know, a low bar, knowing that if my house catches on fire, all I have to do is make a phone call and people who have the capability of putting it out are going to show up and it doesn't matter what zip code I'm in, that's a good rule. Right. The point is I get liberated by not having to fight my own fires, not having to contract with a private company to do it. Not having to arrange things this way.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

There's a labor requirement from you for that.

[Brett Weinstein]

What are you saying?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You're paying taxes? Of course. Portion of the. Of the labor that you.

[Brett Weinstein]

I'm all for it. I don't mind those taxes. I'm good.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What about.

[Brett Weinstein]

And I don't mind the fact that I will probably go my whole life subsidizing other people's houses being put out and mine's not likely to catch fire. I like that. That's fine.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Then. The challenge for police and fire is the people who live in more rural areas that don't have access to those but still have to pay for it.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And so my labor is going something I don't get without my choice.

[Brett Weinstein]

I agree.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But I don't want to live under a rule. Right. I don't want a rule put in place that I would not want imposed upon me. And that's what's happening right now. But you benefit from it. So you enjoy it?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, no, but. Do you disagree with the top value I've put down that we can assess the quality of a policy based on whether or not it liberates individuals?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I don't agree. I think.

[Brett Weinstein]

Let's talk about air travel. Okay. We have tremendous regulation around air travel, maybe more so than anything else.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

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[Brett Weinstein]

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[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

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[Ian Crossland]

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[Brett Weinstein]

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[Ian Crossland]

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[Tim Pool]

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[Brett Weinstein]

@mintmobile.com it's in common life that regulation allows you to get on a plane and in less than 24 hours be anywhere in the world you want to go. It's tremendously liberating. It's also tremendously constraining. At the same time, do you resent the constraints that come with air travel or do you say actually net net. I want to live in A world where I can go anywhere I want. I just have to, you know, figure out whether or not the price of going there is.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I would love it if I could build my own ultralight without having to be controlled by the government to do it so that people can have their $60 Spirit Airlines airfare.

[Brett Weinstein]

Okay, so you're ultralight. I want you to be able to build it, and I want you to be able to fly. And I want you not to have to ask. Well, unless you're going to fly it in a way that you might crash into my house, then I become concerned.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It's not even that. It's just that. Imagine if every person had a flying car, what that would mean for air travel. It would mean that many people would lose access because large commercial airliners would have difficulty flying in and out of urban areas when people are flying cars.

[Ian Crossland]

So much liberty is a bad thing. Is, you're arguing here.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It sounds like if you completely liberate

[Ian Crossland]

everyone to have total power, one idiot monkey is going to blow everything up.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, but you already made the argument, right? If everybody has a flying car, you're less free because airliners aren't going to function in that world. I don't know if that's true or not.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And it's not that everybody's a flying car. It's that are capable of having one can.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So other people cannot. My point is, I'm constrained by the government. They prevent me from using these things to make sure that other people can have large commercial airfare.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, look, I. I have become, unfortunately cynical about why the government does what it does. But my point would be we should look at the question of whether you should be allowed to build and fly your own ultralight, whether you should be allowed to buy a flying car based on whether or not the net effect is liberation of individuals over the long term.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

The. The issue, I think, is exemplified pretty well by drones. So when the drone, commercial drone thing first started, we started seeing them pop up in Best Buys and things like this. My friends and I were doing crazy experiments with them. We were hacking them. We were doing live broadcasts, and we actually. I got a request from the US Government to consult on the expansion of this. When they first launch, I was liberated. I could do whatever I wanted. The only issue at play was the liability of a drone crashing into the person or into a vehicle if that did happen. Otherwise, I was in New York City flying it around, flying around buildings, flying over cops, and there was nothing constraining me. Then more people wanted to do it too. So in order to liberate them, I guess they put a bunch of laws in place stopping us from being able to. Being able to do it.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, again, you're putting me at a disadvantage by forcing me to defend current policy. And again, I don't trust.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, I just, I. I guess my idea is that you can't have infinite liberty, right, because some, some liberties will infringe upon someone else.

[Ian Crossland]

So let me put, let me add

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

to this, like flying a drone over someone else's property, privacy invasion, your claim

[Ian Crossland]

that a rule that would enhance the liberty escalates as a value. Maybe it was a linear upward, the more liberty the better. But I think there's a diminishing return on liberty and that you have to control the masses. This is a utilitarian argument because people be fucking, excuse me, wild animals, we've basically domesticated ourselves kind of. But we're like a dumb human that's hungry, is super dangerous. So if he has full liberty, all the weapons, all the power, like, well,

[Libby Emmons]

doesn't your liberty end where it begins to infringe on someone else's rights by law? I mean, that's sort, well, that's sort of how it goes.

[Ian Crossland]

But in reality, like, well, you can commit crimes, people are intentionally kept in the dark. You know, people go out of their way to make sure. A lot of people are kind of like stupid and docile, I think on purpose.

[Libby Emmons]

So I think that's true. I think that is the progressive agenda primarily.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I think the issue is, I used

[Ian Crossland]

to think liberate everyone, make everyone super powerful and strong and intelligent, but it might destroy us all.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Let me ask another question about say having a rifle in New York City. You want to have a scar, 20s, 308. You live in a box apartment with 20 other units. You've got two on each side, one behind you. You got a window facing outside. Should that person be allowed to have that weapon?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I have become persuaded that the net liberty argument strongly favors the second amendment. And it does so in spite of the fact that liberties are limited by unstable people who use these weapons and rob innocent folks life.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So this person in this apartment has a break in and this is their singular weapon and they use it and they shoot the guy. Cavitates vaporizes a large portion of his chest and the bullet carries on through other apartments striking a child. This is the argument why in New York they say we won't allow these weapons. Now if I live out in rural West Virginia, nobody cares because I can go outside right now. And just unload and nothing. No one will get hit. I got backstop. We're totally fine. The challenge is that you maximize for I suppose in a situation like New York. And I'd largely agree with, we have a constitution, we have rules, and people should be allowed to have these weapons. But I fully recognize a lot of people are gonna get blasted if that's the case.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, a lot of people are gonna get blasted. But the hard part to calculate about the costs and benefits of the second amendment is that I'm fairly convinced that the founders understood the necessity of an armed populace to prevent tyranny. And the question is how many skulls end up in a pile if we end up with tyranny because our weapons aren't powerful enough as citizens?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, there was a, there's a really great meme where it's a guy with an American flag. I posted it and he's got a big pile of guns. And then he's like, he says something like, man, it's just so awful about these Epstein guys. There's nothing we can do, literally nothing that we can do at all. And that's the point that people keep making is, you know, around the world, the gag that they're saying is that Americans claim to have these guns to fight tyranny. We get these disclosures about Epstein, the people flying on these planes, the powerful elites, everybody kind of knows what they're doing. But of course, no one should go out with weapons and start. I mean, what is the argument you get, take up your weapons and form militias and then go attack the government.

[Ian Crossland]

That's.

[Libby Emmons]

We see that we've seen over the past year. We've seen, you know, at least recently, Luigi Mangione. Right. Thomas Matthew Crooks, Tyler Robinson, Cole Allen. We've seen these young men take their weapons and go out and do what they believed was attacking tyranny. Right in. In four distinct cases. Two men were murdered and Trump was a. Trump was almost shot twice.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And just the excellent point is that what antifa defines as fighting tyranny, we argue as fighting against democracy and vice versa.

[Libby Emmons]

Well, that's exactly, that's exactly the problem.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So the argument of maximizing liberty, I think the challenge is moral worldviews are just very different.

[Ian Crossland]

Let's take it. I want to stress test the maximization of liberty philosophy, free speech. So if anyone can say anything on any network everywhere, that could be very bad that one demagogue can rally. Well, one demagogue can rally doesn't mean

[Libby Emmons]

access to every mass formation.

[Ian Crossland]

Look what Hitler did with mass media.

[Libby Emmons]

Free speech doesn't mean access to every platform.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, technically, legally, you're right.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah. That's not what free speech is. Free speech is, you know, like, no one can come out in the town square and shut you up. But it doesn't mean you have to be on, you know, CNN and Fox and wherever else. Time will tell if whether or not free speech means for sure that you're allowed to be on every social media platform.

[Ian Crossland]

You have access to a telephone.

[Brett Weinstein]

Is that your right as an American?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But just, I suppose, to the argument about liberty. Do I have the liberty to enter someone else's property? You know what I mean?

[Brett Weinstein]

Of course not.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But let's say there's a big. Let's say there's a plot of land, it's 50 acres with a house on it, that they just use it as an investment. They've never set foot in it. One time it was bought by a guy 2,000 miles away. And here I am, homeless. If I go on the property, no one will know. It will cause harm to literally nobody. And I'll make sure to leave it exactly as I found it. But I have no right to that.

[Libby Emmons]

Now you sound like Mamdani supporters.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, this.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

That's why my argument against the liberty thing is.

[Brett Weinstein]

But this is my point about why the right has to wise up about taking care of the people at the bottom so they don't fall off the ladder and have no investment. Right.

[Libby Emmons]

Well, I think that's what the right has been trying to do a little bit under Trump or at least that faction.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

No, no, no. There's a solution to that. It's very easy.

[Libby Emmons]

Working class is part of the simple

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

solution to the poor people who fall flat camps.

[Libby Emmons]

No, but they already have that. Isn't it called la?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, yeah, and let's go back to the LA camps and New York camps.

[Brett Weinstein]

I think we should go back to the free speech question because we're getting tangled up in whether or not you have a right to be on CNN versus whether or not anything should be sayable on cnn. Right. And I would argue you're saying, well, you know, you could have a Hitlerian figure, you know, mesmerizing the population over a platform. I agree that's a danger. It's a sobering one. But it is not nearly as dangerous as a system that decides who can say what where.

[Ian Crossland]

I think that some censorship is very good because some things you want to protect children from, some networks, you need to make sure. And like, I do think you should have Unlimited network. Maybe a network where you can be uncensored.

[Libby Emmons]

But didn't we used to have.

[Brett Weinstein]

I agree that there are things that we should censor. Like, we should be very sure to keep pornography away from kids, especially modern pornography. We should be able to prevent you from doxing somebody online. But there's no idea, no matter how despicable, that shouldn't be expressible on any platform. And the remedy for it is to have other people explain why it's a terrible idea. That's the best we got.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So do you think that, like, if. If Epstein investor class wanted to launch a primetime cable show on CNN advocating for pedophilia, let him do it?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, like I said, we have a special obligation with respect to pornography. And obviously you would.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

No, no. But advocacy of not showing it.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But still going on making a political argument for legalization.

[Brett Weinstein]

A political argument for legalization. I suppose I would have to accept that on the basis that we could meet it with the obvious counter argument and hopefully people would spot there was this.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I just say. No, I just. I just. I'm. I'm willing to accept that there are moral frameworks and moral worldviews that. And this is the great challenge with the liberty argument is what we've been dealing with for a long time. There is a line I don't think we should allow people to cross. And I am happy to express that as a singular moral framework that exists in my mind and the minds of most people. But there are people who believe in free speech that want to say that. And I say don't care. Literally, don't care.

[Brett Weinstein]

Okay, but now. Now we're back in Covid hell. Right. Because you had a bunch of people using wrong arguments to say you shouldn't be allowed to discuss the virulence of COVID Yep. Or the safety of vaccines or the utility of repurposed drugs. The fact is, those people got a lot of folks killed.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And it seems like the real issue at hand was that those with the power had a different moral worldview than I did and sought to destroy us using that system against us. And so if we adopt the. We will allow them to keep doing what they do as long as we get to do what we do. The end result is we get crushed and they do the bad thing.

[Brett Weinstein]

So I think you have just gotten right back to the question about we are in a war in which we have to meet fire with fire. That's not where we should want to be. We should want to get out of that situation as quickly as possible. And the fact is if you can't trust people in power to make decisions about what can and cannot be said because you what they'll do with it, then we are stuck with any idea should be expressible and you meet it with the counter idea. It's not that that's a good system, it's that it's the best system that we can consider.

[Ian Crossland]

So if someone came out and they were like there's a virus and someone was like this is what you have to do, they gave the wrong information. It got 100 billion or billions of people believed it. You think that the government should not step in and shut it down or it would be up to the populace to self regulate.

[Brett Weinstein]

You're saying that to a funny person to be land that argument on. Because the government did step in cryptically and said that Heather and I were spreading Covid disinformation that we were endangering people and they muscled the platforms to silence us. And the point is, guess what? We were right and they were doing exactly what they were accusing us of. So the right solution was not to tell them that they couldn't deploy their arguments about ivermectin vaccines, origin of the virus, virulence of the virus. They can deploy their arguments and we can deploy our arguments. And you know what? Our arguments were better and they won.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

The issue of course, is the old saying, right, when I am weak, I ask you for rights because it is according to your principles, but when you are weak, I take them from you. That's according to mine. The view that I've largely had is inadequacies of liberalism. Liberalism in the classical sense, the United States beautiful. When everyone shared a moral framework. You didn't need police. I mean people largely just agreed. If you blasphemed, you went to jail. Everybody agreed. The First Amendment didn't protect you from blasphemy. You just went to jail. You were shunned or ostracized or worse. People who would commit serious crimes often didn't get a trial. They'd just string you up. Everybody agreed. And then people stopped agreeing. Different communities started to pop up. The country expanded. And then we tried to glue these things together and act like they existed under one umbrella. The, the reality is if I say something like you can express your political opinion, it's fine, you'll end up with antifa going and attacking people. And then here's the problem of reality. In the case of Derek Chauvin, a travesty of justice. The jurors were entering a courthouse under armed guard because the rioters were threatening people. Which case was it where the journalist followed? Was it Rittenhouse? The journalist followed the jurors home? Yeah, that was. And, yeah. And so when you have things like that, this idea of classical liberalism makes literally no sense. You can say, we're all allowed to speak, but when one side says, oh, and we'll kill you, the juror says, I'm gonna do whatever the guy with a gun is telling me to do. I don't care what your argument is. You've lost. And we sit here, we've tolerated these powerful elites and these rogue street factions, and we've said, but they're allowed to recruit. They're allowed to do it. They're allowed to say it. I say, no. I say, we. Within the confines of our moral framework, there is free speech. That is, you defend free speech, you reject and denounce violence and never seek to recruit for it. You get free speech. The moment you say, we can throw bricks at the diversity of tactics and we have to crush or kill fascists, the people we disagree with, I say, then you get the treatment you've asked for. All the same.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I agree with that. You're not allowed to advocate for violence,

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

but no one can stop them. In the system where we all try

[Brett Weinstein]

to say, right, we're living the cancerous version of the system.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, let me clarify. A man stands up on a soapbox and says, join antifa. We're peaceful. And we go, no, no, no, no, no, he's lying. These people are marching around with guns. And he goes, no, no. I'm advocating for peace, and I've just recruited 100 people to come to my meeting. Then he hands out guns and bricks and bottles.

[Ian Crossland]

It's sad to think that sometimes the more charismatic argumenter will win, even with the worst idea, and that you need threat of.

[Brett Weinstein]

When I was diagnosed, all I wanted

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

to do was get back to work.

[Brett Weinstein]

I wanted to get back to that trajectory that I was on prior to the cancer.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I always felt like I had value.

[Brett Weinstein]

I had a place on the team to just be treated with dignity. It means everything. Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery.

[Ian Crossland]

We can make work a better place

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

for healing, learn more, and sign the [e-mail] forced to stop.

[Ian Crossland]

That is crazy. That's so antithetical to communication in the United States.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But this is a human reality. There are people who don't want the truth. They don't care. There are People, you see these videos during COVID where a guy is chasing a woman down screaming, if I have to wear a mask, then you do too. He doesn't care what's true. Fauci going on TV and saying, first he says you don't have to wear two masks, but then he gets asked, he gets asked a few days later, wouldn't it just make more sense? To which he agrees. And then all of a sudden, double masking appears. These people don't care about what's true. They sought to exert force against you. And they could. Because in the end, everything we see is again to the Derek Chauvin case. Or how about the Ahmaud Arbery case? The threat of violence from 10 people versus the threat of a finger wag from a thousand. We know what's gonna happen.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, I think your argument, Brett, about the best ideas will win. I believe that in if there's enough time and people are calm, but when people are agitated and it's an emergency, a bad idea can get super hot traction real fast and you need like some authority to stomp it out.

[Libby Emmons]

I think, I don't think that the best idea necessarily will always win because I do think that what Tim is saying is accurate about there being different moral frameworks. So I think generally, the four of us, five of us, would have been raised with a relatively Christian moral framework, whether there was Christianity involved or not, because we were swimming in those Christian moral framework waters of the United States as it was in the 20th century, you know, and going into the 21st century. But we now have a situation where there are a lot of people who don't think that that is a valid way to look at the world at all. You recently have, and you have a situation too, where the people who don't think that that basic Christian worldview is valid think that their worldview is valid. And that you, as someone who accepts a basic Christian worldview, has to accept. Here's their craziness. Like just for an example, you look at this recent viral video on X that was going around today or yesterday, and it's a bunch of Muslims in the UK demanding that all the pubs close because the pubs are next to mosques.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So I have a question for you, Brett. Should parents have final say in the medical treatment of their children?

[Brett Weinstein]

Of course.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So if a parent decides they want to, at 8 years old, surgically sex change their child, it's their choice.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, you caught me. We have to protect kids from disfiguring. So when you say medical, I think we're talking about a judgment call over what is in the medical interest of your child. This is not a judgment call. This is the maiming of children. So. So then I would argue that that is the reason I answered the way I did is because within the medical realm, I believe that the right to informed consent is sacrosanct and kids can't exercise it because they can't be properly informed. So yes, a parents have final say. Parents have final say, but not if what you have is a surgical monster. Who wants these are these are, these

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

are, these are legal in many states.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I'm not. I'm arguing that they absolutely shouldn't be. It's a such a clear violation.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

In which case you would argue that there should be. Or I should say, would you argue then there should be an authority that can go to, say, California and say the federal government, for instance, we are going to stop you. The parents say, our child shall get a sex change. Should the federal government send agents in to stop that from happening?

[Brett Weinstein]

Yes.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So then when as, as you mentioned already with rules we don't want to live under, the inverse happens. Is that in a state like Florida, when the parents say, absolutely, you will not vaccinate our kids, Democrat federal government comes in and takes the kids and says the state has the authority to come in. Now, the only thing you're arguing is your moral worldview, not the principle.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, not at all. I am arguing that bodies function. The idea that the federal government has the right to mandate an intervention in a functioning human body is absurd. So these are different things. In one case, you have doctors maiming children, and the federal government has not only a right, but I think an obligation to prevent that from happening. In the other, you have a shot with unknown impact that there's no medical need for. So I would argue that the very same principle has you preventing the supposedly medical intervention.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What if the kid has cancer and the doctor recommends chemotherapy, Low success rate, and the parents believe that it's not at the point where the child is at risk of dying in the short term and they want to try something alternative. The state can then say, no, we're coming in. This child's body is not functioning properly. They need medicine.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, unfortunately, Covid delivered a graduate level education in modern medicine to anybody who was ready to pay attention. I'm not saying you become a medical expert, but a graduate level education in how medicine functions. And you're talking about a case where parents are rejecting a doctor's advice. There are many places where it makes Sense to reject a doctor's advice because the doctors are perversely incentive or badly educated. Will that mean that someone like, let's say, a. A Christian Scientist, Christian Scientists, as I understand it, believe that medical intervention is never warranted. And so you could have a child born with cancer who the parents refuse to treat, and when the child dies, that will be a tragedy. On the other hand, you might have an instance in which the parents are very well informed and they recognize that there is a more promising therapy for the cancer in question and that what they're effectively getting is a pharma sales pitch for chemotherapy that's highly destructive and perhaps not very effective.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So the question is.

[Brett Weinstein]

The answer to the question is, as with the case of liberal gun laws, I think we have to tolerate a tiny amount of tragedy. The number of doctors who will turn down medical treatment for their children when their children are in dire need is tiny. And so we have to recognize that the principle that is maximally liberating and valuable of humans is the principle in which you either have an absolute right to inform consent over all medical intervention, or in the case that your child can't exercise informed consent, you have it in their stead. I think that's the best you can do.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So to clarify, there will be some instances where the parents will turn down a known effective treatment which will kill the child. But we have to allow that it's a minimal tragedy to protect the rights.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, not just to protect their rights, but to protect all of the children who will be maimed by doctors prescribing things that are not in the child's interest, which is happening all too frequently.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Does this mean that. I suppose the argument. The argument is against an authority on medicine, that the individual shall choose whether that medicine should be applied regardless of the science. Like the problem.

[Brett Weinstein]

The problem. The problem is that the phrase, the science in that sentence is doing so much heavy lifting, the way science works. You have the point.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So I can try. My point is you're an adult, every doctor on the planet agrees, even you, that there is this. An antibiotic is going to cure your bacterial infection. And he goes, nope. And you say, okay, now, like we are saying, this person will get sick, they will die of consumption or whatever, or syphilis because they're refusing this known treatment. But we're going to allow that.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right, but what you need to compare that little tragedy to is the massive tragedy in comparison of all of the people who are killed annually by doctors.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

No, no, I understand that.

[Libby Emmons]

So.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So again, in order in Order to find the moral point. But, well, but people have a right to turn down effective treatments even if it means they'll die.

[Brett Weinstein]

Here's the. Here's the deeper moral point. It's really a point about natural law. Okay. You are a creature. You are built to function and you have a mind and you are built to reason. We have all of this technology. It is advertised as doing one thing. It very frequently does other things rather than what is advertised. Are we in a position to tell you, as either the patient or the parent of a patient, that you have to take the word of this authority? What authorities do we have that are so good that we should be able to order you to do that? And I would say none.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Right. So just to clarify, if there was a person who had a bacterial infection, everyone agrees the antibiotic is going to cure it. If they don't take it, they're gonna die in a couple years. It's gonna spread. They're gonna get sepsis. Whatever might happen. That's the person's choice to get. To just wither away.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yes. If you wanna make it tough, then the question is with an infectious agent, what do we do to protect other people from.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So now we come to the next question, which is a contagion, which is hantavirus.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yep.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And do we then say, we've decided that because we believe you have hantavirus and we don't know for sure, we're taking your rights from you?

[Brett Weinstein]

Actually, that right does exist. The right to quarantine the sick does exist in very exotic cases. And the case of the MV hondius and those who emerged from it might be such a case.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Let's pull it up. Got the story here from cbs. You see, I was walking there. I was walking there. CBS News. Two Maryland residents monitored after potential hantavirus exposure. Health officials say. We've got this from npr. US cruise ship passengers arrive in US after one tests positive for hantavirus. That's it. We're all done. It's going to spread. It's got a one. I'm just kidding. Likely. I think nothing's going to happen. I think it's exceedingly rare. I believe the reason it's getting a lot of attention is because it's getting a lot of clicks. So it's created a cycle of, you know what? I described it as low event volume last week. So seriously, we had very slow news days. Libby was here. We were talking about it. Everyone's shrugging like, what's the story today? And Honda virus seems to be the most interesting thing. So it gets a lot of playing a lot of attention. And when I say low event volume, I'm describing at the national and international level things of magnitude were fairly stagnant. Not the local level, sure, but. But you know, the goings on of a police involved shooting in Oklahoma doesn't matter much to New Yorkers. Hantavirus was a story that could theoretically affect the whole world and likely would as these people start returning to their home countries. And thus it generated a lot of attention that I don't think is warranted. But correct me if I'm wrong.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I would say this is a story that we have to think about very carefully because hantavirus is not new. It is not new that we have an outbreak amongst humans. The story of the MV Hondius does not add up as presented. But we don't know why it doesn't add up.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And so we'll start there. What do you mean?

[Brett Weinstein]

All right. We have a ship that left Argentina on April 1, I believe on April 16.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Are you sure it was April 1? Track Hunter, I'm not saying it's correct, says March 20.

[Brett Weinstein]

You know, there is some disagreement between different sources. I think it's April 1st, but I don't know. It could be that I'm looking at the wrong source. But nonetheless, what we have, irrespective of which of those dates is correct, what we have is an individual who shows symptoms of hantavirus and then gets so sick he dies. His wife then gets very sick. She ultimately dies. We've now had three deaths from this ship. Hantavirus is well known in its basic epidemiology.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Real quick point. On further inspection, Another source says April 1st. Track Honda says 20th. But you're probably right.

[Brett Weinstein]

I have seen this disagreement before and I really don't know what the right answer is. I've just seen 4-1- Enough Times that I'm inclined to believe it. It's funny that it's not a well established fact.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

This is very strange.

[Brett Weinstein]

Settle it. Yeah, isn't that odd? But okay. So you have a case in which hantavirus is circulating on a ship. There are eight known cases. We have two more likely cases. After the ship, the passengers disembarked. The question is how could you get this number of cases on the ship and there are only a small number of answers. First of all, you should know Hantavirus does not, is not conveyed between people. It's not contagious between people, except maybe the particular Andean strain, but that is far less certain. Than people think. The evidence of it being transmitted between people is quite weak. If you want to look at Peter McCullough put a paper on his X feed, a meta analysis. Actually, they couldn't do a meta analysis because the data was of too many different types. But they did a review of all of the available evidence and concluded that it was actually unlikely that even the Andean strain is capable of transmitting between people. So one possibility is that either there were rodents on the ship. Another possibility is that one of the suppliers of the ship had a rodent problem and so some rice or something was brought in that was contaminated.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Don't forget the bird watching at the dump.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, the bird watching at the dump is pretty fishy because hantavirus, here's the thing, it's a really bad disease. You don't want it.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It's very 40% mortality, right?

[Brett Weinstein]

40% mortality. If you don't get, if you don't get good medical help, it's much less. But it's still a ferociously high case fatality rate. So the question is still, how could you get this many cases on a ship of something like 150 people in the period of time that you've got? And all of the various explanations are pretty weak, right? Let's say that the bird watcher did go to the dump and he dropped a piece of food and was thoughtless and picked it up and ate it and contracted hantavirus. Okay, it's pretty if.

[Libby Emmons]

Is that what they said?

[Brett Weinstein]

What?

[Libby Emmons]

Is that what they said happened?

[Brett Weinstein]

No, it's just my. Just putting together a model, proof of concept. Here's how I would build this little outbreak from that exposure. Okay, so he contracts it in a known way. He goes on the ship, he's rooming with his wife. Maybe they're doing other things. That's close contact between two people that if the Andean strain of hantavirus is capable of transmitting between humans, she could have gotten it. Okay, that gets us to two. Three is harder to figure. Ordinarily, even those who believe that hantavirus is true.

[Libby Emmons]

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[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

people at work supported Me while I was going through treatment. By not treating me like somebody who

[Libby Emmons]

was going through treatment. Treatment sucks.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Cancer sucks. Being engaged with work really helped to. Oh, I just knew I was going

[Brett Weinstein]

to beat this thing. Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery.

[Ian Crossland]

We can make work a better place

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

for healing, learn more and sign the pledge at workingwithcancerpledge.com transmitted between people Believe

[Brett Weinstein]

it is not easily transmitted between people. It requires effectively intimate contact like doctors contacting bodily fluids.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Maybe they were, you know, getting witted.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. Was it some other kind of cruise? That's. I don't think so. These were, these were people going to look at penguins. So you know, okay, so anyway, you can get to two. It's hard to get to eight cases from a sick individual. Now how would you, if I wanted to make the argument for this being totally natural, I would say, well, this was a ship in polar waters, it's very cold. So the H Vac system has to work overtime to keep such a ship warm. And it has to be biased towards recirculating air that's already been warmed and has cooled off a little bit rather than pulling in really cold air from the outside and warming it up for energetic reasons. That would be what they did. So maybe the H Vac system is pumping, you know, aerosolized hantavirus through the ship. But even that, given how poorly transmissible this is, that is unlikely to work. For one thing, the H Vac system be very dry.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Is it possible that someone on this boat was some kind of UFO related researcher?

[Brett Weinstein]

I'm not going to touch the UFO thing yet. We can go back to UFOs, but frankly you're.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, so are you saying it was an intentional infection or.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, I'm saying, look, the most natural way for eight people on a ship of 150 to get a hantavirus infection is for there to have been mice on the ship. But so far we've been told no mice have been found on the ship. That's bizarre.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

They're probably just lying about the mice because they don't get sued.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, but who's lying about the mice? You know, we've got the WHO and the CDC weighing in on this. Why does the ship get any say at all in what the public discovers? Frankly, the best answer from the point of view of planet Earth is that there were mice on that ship, there was hantavirus circulating, an unfortunate number of people got sick and the world can go back to doing what it was Doing Agreed. Right. Slightly worse if it was a supplier because now you've got who else got the grain. But hantavirus doesn't live very long outside of a rodent. So basically the point is, look, if you were really interested in public health, this would be your number one concern. How exactly did this infection spread through that ship? If it was mice on the ship, if it was a supplier that was contaminated, then we know exactly what to do. You have to go after that supplier and make sure that anything that it distributed is cleared. You have to clean the ship and make sure there are no rodents persisting. But the point is global issue. Not remotely. But it's never a global issue with hantavirus. Hantavirus outbreaks happen. They're very tragic.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I think the media is propping it up because they're desperate.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yes, but you also have, you know, the who, I think probably in response to one of my posts and Mary Tally Bowden's post put out a statement saying that ivermectin wasn't going to work. Now this is crazy. Why is the WHO saying this?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I. Because you're a high profile individual and this store. I like, like one hypothesis, my view is that we have international and national news stagnation and it's not that nothing is happening, it's that nothing's developing. So we know there's ongoing operations in Iran, but no one wants to hear today a boat moved left and right. They want, hey, what has Iran said? What has changed? So you then post about it. They respond to a high profile attention, you know, to a matter.

[Brett Weinstein]

How dare they. Frankly, what I said and they're as bored as everybody else. What Mary Tally Bowden said was ivermectin will likely work on this. Why? Because it's a single stranded RNA virus and ivermectin works generally across single stranded RNA viruses. That's what I said. If I had to bet.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What does it do? What does the ivermectin do?

[Brett Weinstein]

Oh, that's an interesting story. The answer is we don't know. There are many mechanisms of action. One of them in the case of hantavirus is less likely to work. Because hantavirus reproduces in the cytoplasm of the cell, it does not reproduce in the nucleus. But even that mechanism may be on the table because it communicates with the nucleus. So what you have is a drug that is as safe as any drug that we've got. Right. The amount of ivermectin you have to take to hurt yourself is unthinkable.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, I don't know. I was watching cnn and Joe Rogan looked real green, and they put a little horse icon next to him.

[Brett Weinstein]

He sure did look green.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Not to interrupt, but just for the context, we don't know, during the COVID stuff, Joe Rogan made a video for Instagram. CNN ran a video where he looked green. They changed the color, and they put a horse, a little icon of a horse, in their description. Ivermectin is a prescribed medication for human beings to treat parasites. And when Joe Rogan said that he was prescribed it, they put a horse symbol and called it a horse dewormer. That's a lie.

[Brett Weinstein]

A horse dewormer. Even though it has been labeled by the World Health Organization as an essential medicine and been given billions of times to him.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

A miracle drug. Yeah, I mean, curing river blindness.

[Brett Weinstein]

It also works for horses, but it's not.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Let me just throw this out there, too. Another crazy thing is on my Wikipedia, it says that when I got Covid, I explained that I was getting treated with ivermectin and monoclonal antibodies, which is a gross mischaracterization of what actually happened. What actually happened was I did not get ivermectin. I got monoclonal antibodies. Five days later, on the phone with the doctor, she said, I want you to take Ivermectin. And I said, no. I said, I feel great. Never felt better. The monoclonals worked, and I don't want to take something I don't need. And she said, well, I'm your doctor, and I am telling you I want you to take it. And I said, from what I've read, I don't see that it's going to do anything particular at this point either. And I told this story at the time, and she said, listen, maybe, but it won't hurt you at all either. So how about you take it? Nothing happens, and we're all happy. But in the event, even if it's rare, something does happen, don't you wish you would have just agreed? And I said, listen, I'm not gonna argue with the doctor. So you tell me what to do, and I do it. They then, these lefty media outlets then wrote, tim Pool advocates for Ivermectin, despite the fact my whole story was me saying no. It's insane what they were doing in the media.

[Ian Crossland]

I heard that it was that ivermectin's a worm stunner. I've been calling it a worm stunner, that it's. That it paralyzes the. It paralyzes the, the worms in your body, which then allows your immune system to kick on.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Sort of what it does, that is, it is. It takes the worm by the head, over its shoulder, back drops. What were you saying?

[Libby Emmons]

Do you know? I got multiple reach outs from media about when you had Covid. People were contacting me from all different outlets and I was like.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It was like they were so desperate to lie.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And they were running stories saying that I was poster boy for ivermectin. So they called it.

[Brett Weinstein]

Okay, so this is the point. I will come back to your question in a second. Why is the WHO contradicting me? It can make its argument if it wants, but I'm a biologist making an argument for a very safe medication and its likelihood of being effective based on the fact that this virus happens to belong to a class of viruses in which ivermectin is generally effective. So they have no business tamping this down further. It turns out that hydroxychloroquine, which I have not mentioned until now, is effective against hantavirus. That comes from a researcher who actually works on hantavirus. So we have repurposed drugs with a well known safety profile that one of them does work and one of them may work. So to tamp this down is absurd. For one thing, there's an obvious question at the point that it was discovered that what was on the MV hondius was hantavirus. Were they given these medications? It would have been a really good idea. Right. In Ivermectin's case because it's low risk and has a probability of working in hydroxychloroquine's case because apparently it does work. So are we trying to control the infection or not? Why did these people go home and now we're worried about it having spread across the world. This, this is what I'm saying.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

This narrative is being crafted well.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right. So your point, I think was people are interested in this because it's interesting. Maybe they're primed for it after Covid. And my point is, okay, that would be great if the only thing that was happening is the public is talking about hantavirus, but officialdom is talking about hantavirus now too. Deborah Birx actually showed up and said we should be testing the population for hantavirus with pcr, which is absurd.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I gotta, I gotta say though, a lot of people have said, you know, I will not comply.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I'm just going to let you all know. You will you, will you absolutely Will Brett, you will, too.

[Brett Weinstein]

What will I comply with?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You will comply with hantavirus lockdown, and you will choose to do it.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, my car may decide not to start.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

When. When there are people who are literally at 40% mortality. Like, if we actually saw a real hantavirus outbreak that somehow was spreading rapidly from person to person, and you look out your window and you see people collapsing in city centers, people are going to say, I don't need a lockdown. I'm getting the heck out of the city.

[Brett Weinstein]

Okay?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

They will choose.

[Brett Weinstein]

But you said. You said, I will comply. First thing I want to know is, is this a rerun of COVID where they tried to lock us indoors, which is literally the only place the virus spreads, okay?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Because the exact place you should have

[Brett Weinstein]

been during COVID was out on the beach or surfing or on a trail. That's where you should have been. You should have been in the skate park, right? So Heather and I. Heather and I screamed bloody murder about this. And I think. I think we're never going to know. But Heather and I were like the lone voices saying, hey, wait a minute. Look at the evidence. It doesn't transmit outdoors. We can go live our lives like normal if we can figure out how to dress for the weather. It was that simple. And instead, they locked us inside. And at the same time, they told us, don't get treatment till your lips turn blue. Well, what's true about these viruses? You have to treat them early or it doesn't work.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Let me clarify my point on complying. Nobody wants to be locked down, to go through what we went through during COVID But there will be a psychological difference between what Covid was. What was the mortality with COVID like 0.3 or very, very low? It was like, very low.

[Brett Weinstein]

And it was people who were already comorbidities to death.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Hantavirus is 40%. Without proper treatment, I think it's 5 to 15 in the first world. When we're looking at death rates of that magnitude, people are going to be in major cities. It's going to be tenfold what Covid was. These liberals are going to be like, govern me harder, Daddy. In rural and conservative areas, people are going to generally oppose forced lockdowns, but overwhelmingly will avoid dense populated areas that would have, you know, high, high levels of infection.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I don't know whether or not the dynamics of hantavirus look anything like Covid and whether or not the outdoor environment is safe. Although there are reasons to imagine, even just based on simple principles, that it will be Less likely to transmit in.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Unless, of course, this is a gain of function. Hantavirus.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right. Which is a great question.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And then they just claim a new strain has emerged, transmitting from human to human. We don't know how.

[Brett Weinstein]

Okay, but. But let's play that through. For one thing, we know there was a report of many vials of viruses having been lost from a lab in Australia. One of them, at least one of them, was hantavirus. So we know that this virus has been in laboratories. We don't know what it has been used for. But the problem with gain of function.

[Libby Emmons]

There you go.

[Ian Crossland]

Oh, geez.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

AOL hantavirus bombshell as two vials of deadly rat virus vanished from Australian lab in 2021.

[Brett Weinstein]

So let me tell you what we do know. Okay. Initial reports on the genetics of the strain that is currently circulating. And this is all dependent on whether or not our data is any good. But early reports suggest that there is no major gap between the strain that is circulating and the strain that we know from the wild. That's good news. Okay, that means that it wasn't under development for a long number of years, doesn't show that initial hallmark. Which means we're probably dealing with hantavirus like it exists in the wild. Which means that even if you have an unfortunate outbreak like this, it's not going to take over the world world by wildfire. It's not a candidate for that kind of pandemic. If it does, I think it's going to be one of two things. One of them is psyop, and the other is gain of function. But gain of function has. It is the solution to a problem from the point of view of the weapons makers. And it has a problem of its own, which is that once it escapes into the wild, natural selection takes over

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

the powers that be.

[Brett Weinstein]

The.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Whatever you want to call the Davos Group. These groups, they don't actually need the virus. They only need three cases to which they can then start saying there are deaths.

[Brett Weinstein]

But for one thing. But for podcast world and free speech. Which is exactly why I'm defending it.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Agreed. But I would still argue that if every cable channel came out and said seven cases confirmed in New York, it appears to be spreading, the podcast will run with it too.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I don't know what you mean by the podcast.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I'm talking about Heather, and I won't podcast on the space are going to say we now have. If the New York Times ran a report saying seven cases of hantavirus emerged in New York City, you'd Be like, nope, I don't believe it.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, but.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Or would you be like, it's being reported?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I wouldn't. I'm gonna keep going to the evidence and saying, does it add up? And, you know, Heather and I are gonna go through the same process we did with COVID Very painful. Trying to sort out.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

No, no, I understand. My question is, if. If the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, Fox News, Mississippi. Now, all were reporting that we just saw an emergence of seven cases in New York, would you say, that's not true, they are all lying, or would you just say, it appears that we have these cases being reported?

[Brett Weinstein]

I would do exactly what I'm doing here, which is. I would say that's interesting, because that doesn't sound like hantavirus from the wild. Let's look at these cases and what the putative mechanism of transmission was and see whether or not we're being fed a story.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

My point is, if with these cases on this boat, you now have a prime narrative, a narrative primed. If a managing editor walks into his newsroom in New York and just says, we just got a huge report. Internal documents from the. From the cdc. Check this out. We've got seven confirmed cases in New York. They're running that. Unquestionable. People who work at New York Times gonna go, I'll write it up. Up. I'll get some comments from various health agencies and experts. And experts. The reaction to that would be. The city would announce, don't worry, we're. It's all under control. They lock things down. You need only one lie, one time from one bad person in government. And you know the New York Times is going to say they're going to go, ooh, they're going to jump up on their table and start jumping around, and they're going to be saying, we're about to get paid.

[Brett Weinstein]

They're trying.

[Ian Crossland]

That's what they did with COVID One lie, man. But people are immune.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Dude.

[Ian Crossland]

I just read here, but I want to get.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Anyway, just to keep it on.

[Ian Crossland]

I just read. Polymarket announced May 8th. Moderna announces it's working on a hantavirus virus vaccine.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yep.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Now, they've been working on that for a few years, though, right?

[Brett Weinstein]

Yes, but. But here's the question, and Heather and I covered this on our last podcast. The economics on a hantavirus vaccine don't make any sense. Given the amount it costs to bring a vaccine to market, the number of cases of hantavirus per year in the world is tiny. And the number needed to treat, which is the value you should be tracking is through the roof. In other words, how many people do you have to jab in the arm before you prevent case, let alone one death?

[Ian Crossland]

Right.

[Brett Weinstein]

It's through the roof. Right. So there's no reason in the world that I can think of at least that you would invest in hantavirus as a target for your vaccine. Unless you thought there was some reason that hantavirus was going to start doing something.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Are you saying I should put I should buy some Moderna?

[Brett Weinstein]

Wow.

[Ian Crossland]

Maybe because like as you were saying, you sparked the fear into the people they. And then they go rush to the store to get the stupid thing. I mean, I think that's the tactic, right?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I don't know.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What, the Internet just spiked 16% in the past week.

[Brett Weinstein]

Did it?

[Ian Crossland]

Oh, they just announced their hantavirus.

[Brett Weinstein]

That's fascinating.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So, wow.

[Brett Weinstein]

I would just.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

In the last three months, they're up 40%.

[Libby Emmons]

Wow.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What?

[Brett Weinstein]

Fascinating.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Wait, hold on.

[Brett Weinstein]

For a company that brought out a lethal shot, the platform on which it's based. Look at this. So dangerous.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

In the past year, for the past six months they've been spiking up six months. Before that, nothing. Stagnation. Why is 112% in a year?

[Brett Weinstein]

Something doesn't add up.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Profit taking after hantavirus vaccine rally. Indeed. Robinhood's literally saying the price is rallying over news about the hantavirus vaccine vaccine.

[Ian Crossland]

Hold on, hold on.

[Brett Weinstein]

Makes no sense.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What if the story is actually just planted to drive like they're working on a vaccine that nobody really needs?

[Brett Weinstein]

It's a hypothesis and frankly, it makes sense. It would make sense of a story that otherwise does not make a lot of sense.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So how much should I buy of Moderna?

[Brett Weinstein]

Your interests as a citizen and as a human are counter to your interests as an investor. But you know, look.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So you're saying I should buy Palantir as well?

[Brett Weinstein]

This is the position we're all in. I know you're kidding, but it's the position we're all in. But I want to go back to your point about the New York Times. Yes, the New York Times will do exactly what you're saying and the majority of podcasts will go along with them. But there is a reason that they strong arm us when we don't do it. Okay. Do you know when my podcast got demonetized?

[Ian Crossland]

No, when was that?

[Brett Weinstein]

June of 2021. After I put on Robert Malone and Steve Kirsch and talked about COVID and the MRNA vaccines. Okay. Robert is the inventor of the technology on which those vaccines are based.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

They claimed he wasn't.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right. Weird. They sure did. And it's absurd. He has the patents. It's, it's not, it's not a subjective question. Yeah, right. He wasn't the only person involved. But yes, he has the patents on the technology. So Robert malone comes on YouTube, demonetizes us, strikes. The channel is clearly going to eliminate us. I go on Joe Rogan's podcast. Joe calls it an emergency podcast break the story about what YouTube is doing to us. And YouTube makes a decision behind the scenes, which we can now reverse engineer. That decision was they will make no money. They ultimately went back to putting ads on our stuff, which we didn't see any of the money from. But the other interesting thing, well, and they capped the growth of the channel. The channel was growing exponentially and it plateaued and it was plateaued until they remonetized us without explanation five years afterwards.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

The. The algorithm is driven by sale volume on ads. So if they can't sell ads in your content, then the algorithm won't promote the content.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, but it was worse than that. It went like this, which I'm saying,

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

the moment they demonetized you, the algorithm stopped recommending your channel.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right. But even when they started putting ads on our channel, it remained plateaued until they remonetized us without explanation. But the other interesting feature of what they did to us is that apparently there were some. And we know that this discussion went on in the C suite of YouTube. We think it was with the CEO. But nonetheless, in the C suite of YouTube, they decided to demonetize us and cap the channel without telling us that they did it or by whatever mechanism they did it, and they decided to stop harassing us. I think going on Joe Rogan's podcast was so painful to them that they didn't want it to happen again, so they had to go hands off. And so we spent those five years and, and it remains true today. We can apparently say anything we want and they don't touch us. So that's an interesting fact of history. But my, my larger point is why did they turn Joe Green? Why did they demonetize us and try to throw us off YouTube and then make some high level decision to quarantine us? Because what we were doing mattered. Right? Because it didn't matter that the New York Times was spreading the conventional wisdom. What was going on in podcast world with Robert Malone and Heather and me and Peter McCullough and Ryan Cole and All of those people, that mattered a lot. Why? Because people were finding the channels where the information was at least well intentioned. Right. And that's the thing we have to protect because it matters this time.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I want to show everybody this real quick.

[Ian Crossland]

Mesh Networks now.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So this is the CNN article. Joe Rogan, controversial podcast host, has tested positive for COVID 19. And here's the image. Here's the AP no evidence video color was manipulated in CNN news segment. And then here's the actual comparison from Instagram. It's a grainy because Instagram thumbnail on Joe's actual post. You can see he looks normal on cnn. He was green. Oh my God. And I can go to CNN and he's green still to this day.

[Libby Emmons]

One of the world's highest paid.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

They made. Look at.

[Brett Weinstein]

They made him green.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It's crazy. And then on cnn they had an image of Joe and on the left side of the screen was like a panel where they put information on Ivermectin, calling it a horse dewormer. And for some reason they put a little horse icon. They literally took a little image of a horse. What?

[Ian Crossland]

Dude, it was. I mean, it was the most concerted effort governmentally I've ever seen to stifle humanity.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

No, no, it was like high school kids were put in charge of the psyop.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, it was clumsy. And that's one of the things that we learned a lot from because we got to see the curtain pulled back on the psyop. And the fact is, you know, I said earlier that we won. We didn't really win, okay? We punched way above our weight class. We definitely defeated them in their effort to keep the origin of the virus quiet, to cause people to universally embrace the vaccines, to believe that they were safe and effective. But in the end, people are awake that something happened during COVID that was unholy. So that was an important victory. And this hantavirus story, if it is just people talking themselves into a frenzy, fine. But if officialdom is playing games again, they are probably playing them for a reason. And we need to know what that reason is, because hantavirus is not a natural for this role at all.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, it's easy to strip people of their rights in an emergency.

[Brett Weinstein]

Exactly.

[Ian Crossland]

I mean, the moderna vaccine story from

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

three days ago is crazy.

[Ian Crossland]

Dude, how can you even begin to

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

say it's a coincidence?

[Ian Crossland]

It's. Maybe it's a coincidence. Moderna maybe. Maybe this just happened to happen within a week. Maybe it was a slow news day on accident. Maybe. Maybe they didn't stifle the news for three days to let the hantavirus story go wild.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Maybe they didn't do that.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I think people need to understand that whatever else it may have been, the COVID pandemic was the debut of gene therapies dressed up as vaccines.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

That's what they changed the definition of vaccine.

[Brett Weinstein]

I know they did.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

That's wild, huh?

[Brett Weinstein]

It is wild because if they had said to people, oh, we're going to require you to take a gene therapy, people would have said, huh?

[Ian Crossland]

What's the value of the gene therapy? Assuming Steel manning the argument you get some badass MRNA treatment, like what? What's the good upside of it?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, you want to know?

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah.

[Brett Weinstein]

From the point of view of the vaccine making industry, it is the ultimate cash cow for multiple different reasons. It streamlines the process of creating a vaccine and it cuts right through the regulatory apparatus. Because the argument that they're going to make is we tested the platform, it's safe. So we've just loaded a new gene in. The only thing we have to do is test that new gene and the antigen it produces. As long as they're safe, then the whole thing is safe. Now the fact is none of it's safe and it can't be made safe. Anything you load into that MRNA platform is going to be dangerous. It's going to do the same damage to the body that the COVID shots did and it's going to show up in the heart. That's.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I want to, I want to show you guys this post from Jack Posobic. He tweeted, what if instead of a vaccine, we just were able to get exposed to a weak version of the virus that enabled us to build the antibodies we need to fight the real thing. Of course, Jack's point was that MRNA vaccines were totally different from the was it attenuated virus. Is that what it's called? Yeah, vaccines. Vaccinations, which were in the past what vaccines would do. And Jack was making that point and this guy Dave Jorgensen said the anti vaxxers went so far right they looped around and invented vaccinations. These people, I'm, I'm wondering if the real left right divide is sub 70 IQ versus everyone else and I'm being intentionally mean. These individuals had no idea and to this day have no idea what is actually going on in the world. They see this post from Jack and they are so far removed from the context of the real conversation around this technology. They genuinely believed the COVID vaccinations were attenuated virus vaccines.

[Libby Emmons]

Yeah, they weren't. They weren't at all.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

No, they were MRNA vaccines.

[Ian Crossland]

Were any of them attenuated? Were those vaccines? Is that the difference?

[Brett Weinstein]

No. The DNA were also gene therapy, but

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

there was a different. Wasn't one of the only ones Johnson and Johnson?

[Brett Weinstein]

No, no, it wasn't.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It wasn't tenuated virus, but it wasn't mRNA, Right?

[Brett Weinstein]

It wasn't mRNA, it was DNA. But the question is, what language did you write the gene in? It's still gene therapy. In the Johnson and Johnson, they wrote the gene into DNA. In the moderna, they wrote it into mRNA. But it's almost the same difference. Now, the MRNA platform has a special vulnerability, but you can't. Maybe I should tell you what that vulnerability is. The MRNA is basically a RNA gene wrapped in a lipid nanoparticle. That lipid nanoparticle has no addressing mechanism on it. They inject it into you, it flows around in your blood and your lymph and any cell that it touches may take it up because it's basically just coated in fat. Your cells are made of fat, like dissolves, like it goes in. So the problem is, by design, that shot tells your cell to make a foreign protein, in this case the spike protein. That foreign protein ends up on the surface of the cell and your immune system. When it sees your cell making a foreign protein, it thinks virus. Why? Because that's the only place it sees that it's a viral pattern. So what does it do? It destroys the cell that made the protein. Now, if that cell is in your muscle or your liver, not a big deal. If that cell is in your heart, it's a big deal. Right? Your heart is not supposed to have a viral infection. They're rare. Your body decides, well, killing off heart cells isn't a good idea, but leaving virally infected heart cells isn't a good idea either. And it kills off those cells. That's where your myocarditis is coming from. And myocarditis itself is misleading because what myocarditis means is just heart inflammation. This isn't just heart inflammation and pericarditis. Right, but these are itis. Inflammation. It's not inflammation. This is inflammation which is the symptom of damage to your heart. Your heart, which has an extremely low capacity for self repair. So why is it that a soccer player is running down the field and his heart gives out because he's got a wound in his heart he doesn't know about, he's running under Pressure, and suddenly something gives way real quick, though.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You said the heart doesn't usually get viruses.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Do you. Can you explain more on that? Is this, like, your immune system just won't let it happen or.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, it's. It's very well protected. Right. Your heart, a. It's really important that it not get viruses, so you would expect the protections to be turned up. It's also pretty well insulated. Right. Your lungs aren't. Your lungs are exposed to the outside world. So in any case, I'm not saying that never happens.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Is that true for any other internal organs? Like your kidneys are less likely to get infection. Similar.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, your kidneys can get infected because they're also exposed.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But I mean, your blood, it's like your heart. You know what I mean? Like sepsis.

[Brett Weinstein]

It happens, but it's very. It's very serious when it happens.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Right, right, right.

[Ian Crossland]

To clarify, you're saying OG vaccines, they would put the pathogen in the body, and the pathogen would be there, and the body be like, immune system, kick on, go get it. And now you strengthen. But these new mRNA, they attach to a healthy cell in your body and then make it seem like it's a virus. And your own body destroys its own healthy cells. And that's supposed to knock up your. To create an immune response.

[Brett Weinstein]

What if it's built in? And so what the whole thing was predicated on was that the shot stays in your arm. Right. If the shot stayed in your arm and their little pseudo virus infected your cells, and then your immune system cleared those cells by killing them off, it wouldn't be a huge deal. But one of the things that Steve Kirsch and Robert Malone and I talked about on that podcast In June of 21 was the fact that the biodistribution did not suggest that it stayed in the arm at all.

[Ian Crossland]

Are they working on figuring out a way to make these lipid particles address properly now?

[Brett Weinstein]

They won't acknowledge the problem, so I don't know if they.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

That would cure cancer, wouldn't it?

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, cancer's a different matter. If you have a terminal disease and we've got an MRNA shot that might address that disease, you might be willing to take that risk, right? The risk of the shot might be low enough, and the benefit of the shot might be high enough. So.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But let's just address the theoretical nature. If they were to create the addressing mechanism, as Ian was asking, targeting.

[Brett Weinstein]

I think when you're diagnosed with cancer, you crave a semblance of normalcy and control.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And so Work allowed me to be me. So I think it's really important that companies stay flexible. Cancer in a diagnosis can be all consuming, but it doesn't have to be.

[Brett Weinstein]

Research shows there is a significant connection between the ability to continue to work and cancer recovery.

[Ian Crossland]

We can make work a better place

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

for healing, learn more, and sign the [e-mail] for destruction Cancer cells. Specific cancer cells, because not all cancer the same. They inject it into your arm or whatever. It floats through the body, but specifically only attaches to the cancer. Your immune system then destroys those cells. Is that possible?

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. Now, your immune system already has a tremendous amount of capacity to fight cancer.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Sometimes it doesn't.

[Brett Weinstein]

Sometimes it doesn't. That's when. That's when we find out about it. Right. And the thing isn't properly addressed. So. Yeah. And, you know, I would cautiously say I don't trust these people. I'm not necessarily gonna buy what they tell us about how effective the thing is. But I'm open to the idea that in extremely dire cases, you might be willing to take such a shot. But I'm not open to the idea that it's a vaccine, and I'm not open to the idea of preventing infectious disease with it because the platform itself is terminally flawed.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So we're gonna go to rumble rants and super chats. One quick last question, though, is how much information can be delivered to the cell? I mean, could they reprogram a cell to. Could they repair damaged DNA or RNA

[Brett Weinstein]

with the MRNA platform?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah. So imagine they took like a stem cell of yours, they had like a perfect DNA strand or whatever. Could they inject into your body so that it tells the cells to reproduce perfectly? So that basically destroys the aging process or ends the aging process.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, we're not going to end the aging process. And, you know, we'll have to talk another time about why that is.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

They're biological reasons or biological.

[Brett Weinstein]

Biological reasons. Oh, let's find.

[Ian Crossland]

Let's talk telomeres.

[Brett Weinstein]

Fundamental ones.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Could they make the cells reproduce perfectly? Again, like it's a damaged cell, but they give it the perfect information? Well, program it to reproduce.

[Brett Weinstein]

You're kind of coming at the story upside down, because the promise of gene therapy was very much like what you're describing. Right. The idea is you might have cells that are doing the wrong thing for some genetic reason. And if you could get genes taken up into these cells, you could get them to do the right thing and you might cure disease. It never panned out for reasons like this addressing problem. Right. The problems never worked. And so the huge investment that we biologically put into gene therapy never returned on that investment.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah, yeah. But if you were able to do like one clinical test on say like 5 billion people, you'd get all of that data at once. To solve for this, you dispatch various batches to key regions, make everybody. I mean, could you imagine if something like that happened where they were doing a mass clinical test like that?

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. But what I would tell you is that what can be done on paper is spectacular. What happens when you try to deploy these things in the layered complex systems that make up the human body is you end up with all sorts of unintended consequences.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I understand that. I'm saying, so imagine if you could do 5 billion clinical trials all at once with like between the year of 2021, you know, you can't. And you're like, how do we get the data? And they say, well, it's going to take 20 years.

[Brett Weinstein]

You're asking whether or not Covid was an experiment.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I never said that.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, okay.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I'm just saying instead of doing a bunch of human trials where you can't figure, you know, it's from the 80s and you're like, why can't we get this editing problem right? So if only if we could test it out 5 billion times in a short period and get all the data, we're going to go to your Rumble rants and super chats. So smash the like button. Share the show with everyone you know. The uncensored portion of the show will be up in about 12 or so minutes at 10pm rumble.com timcast IRL in the meantime, what say you? HS Disturb says, Just found out I'm pregnant with my fourth child. I'm 42. My last pregnancy was 10 years ago. Please pray for us as I attempt to bring another God fearing patriot into this world. Thank you so much. I love you guys.

[Libby Emmons]

That's so great.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Amazing.

[Libby Emmons]

Congratulations.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Absolutely. Oh, you're gonna be so excited when you get another baby. I just know it it running around. J D biker says it's because Lindsay Graham is a progressive Republican, which is still a progressive. Glenn Beck covered that today. I am surprised Ian didn't mention that.

[Ian Crossland]

Where is he progressing to? That's what I care about.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Off a cliff maybe.

[Ian Crossland]

Time to regress, Linds.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Monkey King says, wow. Brett even cut his hair for this interview. Thank you, Tim. Hair, by the way.

[Brett Weinstein]

No, I had someone else do it. Correct.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah. All right. K Toth Swiss says feeling bad for stupid People is what got us here. Brett,

[Brett Weinstein]

this is tough.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Do you press the red button or the blue button?

[Brett Weinstein]

What is that a reference?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You know this one?

[Brett Weinstein]

No. Oh, you mean the sweating with the what?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

There's a red button. A blue button. If 50. If more than 50% press the blue button, everyone lives. If more than 50% press red, anyone who pressed blue dies. Moral dilemma.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yes, it is one.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And everybody just says, like, just press the red button everywhere.

[Ian Crossland]

There's a big leap of human evolution some 300,000 years ago, where they discovered the first human bone that was actually looked like it had been repaired before that if someone broke their leg, they were just left to die. And that was very bad for us as a species. Once they started taking care of their weak and their wounded, we evolutionary leapt. So we're sort of in a situation like that. I mean, I think that's your argument I'm trying to steel, man. Your argument.

[Brett Weinstein]

My argument actually is that the transhumanists, and there's lots of people who fall under that banner who wouldn't label themselves that way. But the transhumanists have sold us a bill of goods. And I think many of them have lied to themselves. And the story that they tell themselves is that there are people who are so broken, there's just nothing we can do for them. And they're half right. Okay? Once a person has gotten through development, it's very hard to help them them before they've been damaged in development. It's very easy to protect them by delivering an environment that looks like their ancestral environment. So their body knows what to do, their mind knows how to develop, and that's what we ought to be targeting. So I just want you to separate two questions. What do we do for the broken people on planet Earth today? And the answer is, that's going to be a tough one. And we're going to be less successful than we would like by a lot. What can we do for the generation that has yet to emerge? Everything. And it ought to be our obsession. Right? We can start dealing. You don't need to have children who need orthodontia. We know how to solve that problem. We're just not admitting it. Right? It's solvable. Right. It has to do with a feedback. When you chew as a child, you put. You put information into your body, and your body reshapes your jaw based on that information. All of this giving children baby food and formula and making sure they don't chew hard stuff is causing our jaws to collapse. There's not an Enough room for the teeth. They come in all crooked. And the fact is, many, most children now need orthodontia. That doesn't need to be. If you wanted that problem to be solved 10 years from now, we could solve it. And we wouldn't create massive numbers of new people. You need a tiny number of orthodontists just for the few people who had.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What are you saying? Kids should be eating hard stuff?

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. Look up Mike Mew.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Mike Mu.

[Brett Weinstein]

Mike Mu.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

What do you. What do you mean? Like, my baby doesn't have teeth, you know?

[Brett Weinstein]

Right. But your baby and you should go to Mike Mew for the exact advice on what to feed when. But your baby naturally wants to chew on things, right?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah, she does.

[Brett Weinstein]

And if the instinct is, oh, they don't have teeth, it better be pureed, then what you're gonna do is you're gonna cause the wrong information to register. Her jaw will collapse. She'll need orthodontic. And then you know what? The orthodontist will tell you it's genetic, which doesn't make any sense.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

She gets puree sometimes, but we were told by all the doctors to give her stuff to chew on, so she chews soft things.

[Libby Emmons]

What about, like. Do you ever do, like, a frozen strawberry and a little net thing? That. That stuff's awesome.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah, this is. Got one small tooth coming in.

[Libby Emmons]

Loved that stuff.

[Ian Crossland]

Mike Mew calls it the big bolus. Chewing involving chewing a large ball of five to ten pieces of gum to strengthen the masseter muscles and develop the gonial angle, the jaw corner. But how old, how young do they start?

[Brett Weinstein]

Ask Mike Mew. Right. I don't want to pretend to be an authority.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Problem is, today I'll ask AI to analyze his work.

[Libby Emmons]

Work.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And she was rather enjoying her beets, but I was eating cheese. And she saw me eating cheese.

[Brett Weinstein]

And she knew that she can't be beats.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And she reached over and she went. And I looked at my wife, and I was like, should I give her some. Should I give her a little piece? So I gave her a little piece of cheese, and then she took the beets and threw them on the floor.

[Libby Emmons]

Oh, yeah, that's what happened.

[Ian Crossland]

You gotta mix the beets with the cheese.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And she's like, now I don't have to eat them. And then we're like, you're done. You're not eating. And then she started crying.

[Ian Crossland]

He says the earlier, the better. The earlier the children stood, the better. That's an interesting philosophy. It makes a lot. I mean, just basic duh.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

The most important thing, though, is that she. We handed her a flute and she instantly figured it out. And she's just going. And we're like, yes. Oh, I gotta tell you guys this story, totally unrelated. Just. We went to Guitar center because we went out to eat and there's a jazz band playing. We were in Baltimore before we went to Phil's show, and she was staring at the jazz band obsessed with. And she kept reaching for him. And so my wife was like, okay. And she let her watch and then bring her back over to eat. And she would start freaking out again, wanting to go back to watch the jazz band. And we were like, okay, she likes music. So we went to Guitar center and we showed her piano and she immediately. I put her sideways on the bench. She immediately spun to the keyboard. It's going bang, bang, bang, bang on it. And we were like. She knew right away what to do.

[Libby Emmons]

Did you buy the piano?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yes. And when we told the man we're gonna buy it and picked her up to put her in a chair, started reaching for it and yelling and complaining and then started arching her back, refusing to go into her seat because she wanted to play the piano.

[Ian Crossland]

I hear that.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So we're very excited, dude.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yes.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Recording that.

[Libby Emmons]

Is it already delivered? Is it all in the house now?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah, yeah. Set up everything all the time.

[Ian Crossland]

First court.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

We've had it for two or three days.

[Libby Emmons]

Love it.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

And she just goes, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.

[Libby Emmons]

That's so great.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

She just matches it. She's one.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So it's pretty obvious she loves music.

[Brett Weinstein]

That's fantastic.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I mean, Alice and I both play guitar and sing and, you know, so she sees us and we play music for her. So, you know, we've created that. But, you know, naturalism.

[Ian Crossland]

In all of your studies as a molecular and evolutionary biologist, do you get deep on music and the value of music?

[Brett Weinstein]

Oh, my God. First of all, I'm not a molecular biologist, though I am made of molecules, so I suppose there's an argument.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But you are a molecular and a biologist.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah. When somebody asks about a microbiologist, I often wonder how small they are. But the question of music is fascinating at an evolutionary level. And I will tell you, it goes all the way back to Darwin. Darwin wondered about it. And this is a place where I have a long standing annoyance with Steven Pinker, who declared. Yeah, that guy. Who declared that our love of and pursuit of music was the result of the fact that it combined a bunch of other things that we love, that it has no meaning of Its own. And he compared it to. He said it was, I think, musical cheesecake.

[Libby Emmons]

You know, that's ridiculous.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah, it's ridiculous. And so this is a giant mystery where we can't admit that the answer is it's for something really frickin important, but we don't know what it is. And I have my own hypothesis, but let's just say the fact that all human cultures have music, the fact that both males and females participate in. In music, that every human being until recent times has had their own individual relationship with music. The fact that you hear a song, even a sad song, sad song makes you feel sad, but you want to hear it again. Why? You disagree with which part?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Not all music is the same. And some things people describe, like Ben Shapiro says rap isn't music. He's unmoved by it. He doesn't connect with it emotionally.

[Brett Weinstein]

I'm not defending every piece of music or every genre of music.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

So what I would say is the important thing is to reduce it a little bit and say every society has some kind of emotional communication through sound.

[Ian Crossland]

Speech, for instance. It's like an evolution of music.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I would argue that mumble rap is. I understand it as music functionally, but it's actually. It's nails on a chalkboard to me.

[Brett Weinstein]

Yeah.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

It fills me with rage.

[Brett Weinstein]

Right.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Like I will strike the person doing it. You know what I mean?

[Brett Weinstein]

So let's just say I feel that

[Libby Emmons]

way about spoken word.

[Brett Weinstein]

Spoken word poetry. Yeah, Yeah, I, I do too. I'm not a. Not a fan.

[Ian Crossland]

It depends on how it spoke. Sorry to interrupt.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I mean, it's not.

[Brett Weinstein]

It's not that. The occasional piece.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

We have a couple more minutes. I'll get a couple of these and we'll come back to this for the uncensored portion because this is fun. Freedom Stripes. As I know Brett is not a big fan of Trump, but he must know that science is better with him in office at this point.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, my relationship with Trump, who I've never met, so I don't have a personal relationship with him, but my relationship with him is complicated. I certainly voted for him. I would vote for him again.

[Libby Emmons]

I think alternatives are disastrous.

[Brett Weinstein]

So terrifying that just even the fact that you have a person who is in possession of his mental faculties, who you could haul in front of Congress and ask questions that can make a decision. If the phone call comes in the night and, you know, Mr. President, the missiles are on the way, what do we do is so far and away better than having a empty suit puppet or, you know, a demented old man or any of that stuff that covers the cabal on the blue team, it's. It's no contest. Nonetheless, I very definitely voted for no new wars, and I am not happy that we are.

[Libby Emmons]

I agree with you on that one

[Brett Weinstein]

in a new war.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

But didn't you know that Miriam Adelson was backing Trump for the purpose of helping Israel annex the West Bank? Donald Trump had stated numerous times he would never allow Iran to get a nuclear weapon. He killed Soleimani. He fired 59 Tomahawk missiles into Syria. So while I agree he was the better candidate on the war things, and I think it is fair to point out we didn't want him to start a war, and I'm not saying it's a view, but just generally speaking, I mean, we all knew the possibility and the probability was decent.

[Brett Weinstein]

Well, I think we'd be, I think we'd be at war either way. And I think what we've really learned is that we don't have a choice on that one.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. My response is like, what was that? A president started a war in the Middle East? I'm so shocked. Oh, heavens.

[Libby Emmons]

I think. I believe that chance, that the, that America's waging of foreign wars facilitates our peaceful existence here.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I think one, There's a couple big.

[Libby Emmons]

Or at least our leaders believe that.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, I actually think one of the reasons the war started is because the economy is on. Is. Is. Is burning in a very, very bad way. I want to say it's on fire, but I don't want to imply that it's good.

[Libby Emmons]

Defense production is a, Is a great way to lift an economy. And being at war and fund, you know, spending all these money on weapons, that's a great way to lift the economy. That isn't.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Yep.

[Libby Emmons]

So they always got rich. That's how we got rich.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Well, it's artificially inflating, but the general idea is stealing the resources from other places to inflate our own economy. And I don't mean currency wise. I'm saying we took Venezuela. We've now got spy planes over Cuba, just like we did before we. We took Maduro out. So Trump said imminently we will take Cuba.

[Libby Emmons]

Right.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

The goal is, I think the economy was really, really bad. And there's a, There's a plethora of factors involved, but I think largely it's okay, it's time for a war again and take other people's stuff so that our economy can be better.

[Libby Emmons]

Did you see the thing about how the lithium was found in Appalachia.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Oh, no.

[Libby Emmons]

Like, like 300 years worth of lithium. Like massive lithium deposits.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

We got to go to the uncensored portion of the show. We'll talk more about this in music. So smash the like button. Share the show with everyone you've ever met in your life. You can follow me on X and Instagram at Tim Cast. Brett, you want to shout anything out?

[Brett Weinstein]

What are you asking for?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

Dark Horse podcast.

[Brett Weinstein]

Oh, the dark. The Dark Horse podcast, of course. And find me on X. Brett Weinstein. And Brett has one T. What's the newest book? Well, the only book that I've published is A Hunter Gatherer's guide to the 21st century, with which I co wrote with Heather. And if you are one of those people like me who likes audiobooks, Heather and I read the. The book for the audiobook. So if you want to hear us tell you what it means, you can hear that too.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

You.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm Ian Crossland. Follow me on the Internet. Ian Crossland.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I was actually talking to Brett about

[Ian Crossland]

graphene a little bit before we went live on the Discord show. I'm doing a documentary with Jim Tour and the folks at Rice University about graphene and all sorts of banging nanotechnology. So go to Graphene Movie. Sign up for the mailing list. When that goes live, you'll be notified. And follow me at iancrossland.

[Brett Weinstein]

I want to. I want to clarify. We talked about graphene, but we didn't do any.

[Ian Crossland]

Well, technically, every time you breathe in smoke, you're breathing it in. Did you know?

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

That's right. Now let's.

[Ian Crossland]

Let's get funky.

[Brett Weinstein]

You can follow me everywhere at Carter Banks. Brett, thanks for coming on. It's been an honor and a privilege. And I can't wait to get into the after show with you, Libby.

[Libby Emmons]

I'm Libby Emmons. You can find me on Twitter. I. And tomorrow, my new podcast drops with Jan Yekilek and Chloe Chung, all about crazy things happening in China and how we should watch out for them here at home.

[Ian Crossland]

But Brett, have you ever smoked dmt?

[Brett Weinstein]

I haven't. I'm interested in it, though.

[Timcast Host (Tim Pool)]

I want to ask you about mass population reduction and the mass genocide of people over the past several years, which will be [e-mail] Timcastirl in about 10 seconds. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today. See you there.