Siaka VS Brian Shapiro Debate on J6, TRUMP, & COVID

Summary

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Timcast IRL | "Siaka VS Brian Shapiro Debate on J6, TRUMP, & COVID"

Date: July 4, 2026
Host: Tim Pool
Guests: Siaka Massaqua, Brian Shapiro, Ian

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Episode Overview

In this Independence Day edition, Tim Pool moderates a fiery, impromptu debate between conservative actor and January 6th attendee Siaka Massaqua, progressive radio host Brian Shapiro, and show regular Ian. The episode dives deep into the most polarizing issues of the past few years: the January 6th Capitol riot, Donald Trump's role and eligibility for office, alleged election fraud, COVID-19 policy and vaccines, media bias, and the future of the American left and right. The show aims for laughter as well as confrontation, with a clear intent to press on double standards, inconsistent narratives, and personal experiences that shaped political allegiances.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. January 6th and "Insurrection"

• Was January 6th an insurrection? Are nonviolent attendees justly punished?
  • Siaka reveals he was present and never charged with insurrection. He argues rule changes and judicial overreach—not ballot-stuffing—altered the 2020 election (03:33).
  • Brian strongly contests claims of widespread voter fraud and emphasizes that courts overwhelmingly rejected Trump's claims, often with Republican-appointed judges (07:33).
  • Tim distinguishes "evidence" from "proof": receiving mail-in ballots for dead people is evidence of potential fraud, but not proof of impact (04:16).
• Hostages, Patriots, or Criminals?
  • Brian challenges Siaka: are violent Jan 6th protesters "hostages" or "patriots"? Siaka hedges: “Depends on the circumstances” (10:01), but clearly condemns violence: "violent individuals deserve to get the full extent of the law for their violence" (15:43).
  • Tim argues mass prosecution included many nonviolent bystanders, with some folks getting significant jail time for minor or questionable offenses (19:26).
  • Debate intensifies over MAGA "hostages," pardons, and whether significant prosecutorial overreach justifies blanket clemency (20:12).

2. Election Fraud, Inside Jobs, and Legal Tactics

• Siaka claims illegal rule changes in several states are evidence of fraud; Brian maintains this does not equal fraud or overturn the results (06:03).
• Who controls Capitol security?
  • Dispute over whether Trump or Nancy Pelosi was responsible; neither side fully satisfies the other (26:04).
• Tim provocatively claims "January 6th is proven to have been an inside job," clarifying his definition: Police waving in protestors, not a federal plot (32:00–34:47).
  • "Inside job" doesn’t mean FBI orchestrated the riot, but officers aiding entry undermines trespassing charges.
  • Brian demands actual prosecutions if so; Siaka says the lack of consequences for “inside job” actors only intensifies grievances.

3. Donald Trump: Blame, Incitement, and Eligibility for Office

• Did Trump incite January 6th?
  • Brian: “If Trump doesn’t lie the election was stolen, January 6th doesn’t happen ... but not incitement in a legal sense.” (39:59, 40:47)
  • Tim: “That’s not legal incitement ... it’s not even a gray area.” (41:08)
• Trump’s ineligible argument (14th Amendment, insurrection clause) is dismissed by the group (42:16), while Tim points out Democrat attempts to keep Trump off 2024 ballots floundered.
• Trump and truth: Brian claims Trump cannot admit loss due to narcissism, not principle (43:18).

4. Media, Propaganda, and Social Media Suppression

• The debate covers Fox News’s lawsuits, Hunter Biden laptop suppression, media bias, and selective outrage (44:50–47:52).
• Tim details how both parties’ elites benefit from international corruption, focusing on the Burisma/Hunter Biden scandal as an example of Western statecraft, not unique villainy (48:13–51:27).

5. COVID-19: Mandates, Efficacy, and Narrative Control

• Mandates & Social Exclusion:
  • Siaka rails against COVID mandates, arguing personal freedom was violated even for those who questioned the vaccine (57:10).
  • Brian (who is immunocompromised) is anti-mandate but pro-vaccine, insisting it should be between patient and physician (57:28).
  • Tim denounces how executive mandates (not law) forced businesses to comply under threat and recounts ‘psychotic’ public masking bureaucracy (68:16).
• Effectiveness, Risks, and Lying Experts:
  • Tim cites Nature and Stanford studies showing higher-than-reported myocarditis rates from vaccines and the failure to prevent infection (61:53–65:54).
  • Brian: Even so, COVID itself is far more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccine. Every vaccine has some risk; the problem is government/media lying about certainty.
• Comparison to Sweden:
  • Siaka prefers Sweden's lighter approach (72:59), Brian, Tim, and Ian fact check numbers but agree broad mistakes on both sides.

6. Policy, Government Programs, and Black America

• Government’s Impact:
  • Siaka argues welfare destroyed the black family and that throwing more government programs at marginalized communities is counterproductive (115:06).
  • Brian insists that cutting food stamps, Medicaid, or healthcare from millions is not "pro-life" and challenges Siaka’s consistency (110:05).
  • Both agree government and healthcare industry profit motives block true reform, and neither party is immune.

7. Notable Exchanges and Memorable Moments

• On the nature of "evidence":
  • Tim Pool: “That is evidence. It’s not proof.” (04:15)
• On the meaning of "inside job":
  • Tim Pool: “January 6th is proven to have been an inside job … if a cop waves you in, that’s an inside job.” (31:50–34:15)
• Media double-standards:
  • Siaka: “All I think a lot of us want on the right is a kiss and a pat on the head from Trump … Be fair!” (86:12)
• COVID rules madness:
  • Tim: “How fucking was this country? … That makes literally no sense.” (68:16)
• Trump’s personal behavior vs. policy:
  • Siaka, on voting Trump: “Trump is not my God. Trump is a part of policies. The left has killed more people that look like me in the womb…” (108:22)
• On healthcare and government corruption:
  • “I would argue, with no evidence, that both sides do not want government health care to move away from government because they’ve been making money off it.” —Siaka (121:48)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Guest Setup – 00:00–03:14
• J6: Attendance, Election Fraud Debate – 03:19–09:05
• Violence, Pardons & Prosecutorial Overreach – 10:01–21:57
• Who Controls Capitol Security – 25:36–26:08
• Legal Definitions: Inside Job, Incitement – 31:50–35:08; 39:59–43:41
• Media Props, Double Standards, Hunter Biden – 44:50–51:27
• COVID Mandates & Science Debates – 57:10–65:54
• Mask/Rules Madness, Government Mandates – 68:16–71:15
• Government Programs, Black Families – 115:06–118:20
• Personal vs. Policy, Voting for Trump – 108:22–110:05
• Wrap Up & Reflections – 122:08–124:48

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Notable Quotes & Attribution

• On Election Evidence

  • “That is evidence. It’s not proof.” – Tim Pool [04:15]

• On Jan 6th violence

  • “Violent individuals deserve to get the full extent of the law for their violence.” – Siaka Massaqua [15:43]

• On double standards for prosecution:

  • “Mass prosecutorial event that is proven malicious, we just wipe it out. You have no choice. That’s why I brought up Shay’s Rebellion.” – Tim Pool [20:12]

• On “Inside Job”

  • “Inside job just means someone working within… aided those criminals.” – Tim Pool [33:42]
  • “A man was acquitted specifically because the police fanned him into the building… That’s an inside job.” – Tim Pool [33:52]

• On COVID mandates

  • “I didn’t… Because I didn’t take it. You shouldn’t incite something because I didn’t take it.” – Siaka Massaqua [57:18]

• On “Pro-Life” consistency:

  • “If you care so much about that topic, you should also care about innocent people that are dying. … I want you to have that same passion after the baby is born, not just before.” – Brian Shapiro [113:20]

• On media hypocrisy:

  • “If you go to a Trump supporter… They have made things that I do not like. So now I’m going to latch onto something that normally would not matter to me because it makes them my enemy.” – Tim Pool [54:04]

• On Black America, Welfare, and Policy:

  • “The first government program that they were given, which was called the welfare program, homie. That destroyed the black family.” – Siaka Massaqua [115:09]

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Tone and Dynamics

• The conversation is highly contentious, with constant interruption, sarcasm, and accusations of deflection or hypocrisy.
• Brian is openly antagonistic toward Trump, sometimes to comedic effect ("the MyPillow idiot," [05:03]), but passionately defends left-leaning priorities (healthcare, government support).
• Siaka brings lived experience and frustration from the right—particularly over how he's been treated due to January 6th and related government policies.
• Tim acts as fact-checker and devil’s advocate, pushing both guests to clarify definitions and place accusations in broader context; he frequently intervenes to redirect or add historical/political detail.

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Conclusion

This episode showcases the deep divides in American political discourse, especially as experienced by individuals most affected by its flashpoints. While the panel finds little common ground on the nature of January 6th, Trump’s fitness for office, or COVID response, moments of begrudging respect and humor emerge—especially in their mutual disdain for the extremes on “the other side” and a shared wariness of government and media overreach. The debate ends without a formal resolution, but with temporary détente and plans for future, equally passionate rematches.

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For Further Listening

• Follow:

  • Siaka Massaqua: Instagram/X @siaka_massaqua
  • Brian Shapiro: PTL Radio Show, YouTube, Facebook, Substack
  • Tim Pool: Timcast.com, IG/X @TimCast

• Recommended Segments:

  • Election fraud debate (03:33–09:05)
  • Inside job/“patsy” law arguments (31:50–35:08)
  • COVID vaccine new science (61:53–65:54)
  • Welfare versus Black family debate (115:09–118:20)

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Transcript

[Tim Pool]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this special episode of Tim Cast irl. And in the many of you, it is the day before the greatest holiday, the fourth of July, Independence Day. And you're probably out cooking burgers and having a good time. But we still do have an episode for all of you, despite the fact that you're gonna be chilling with family, maybe you'll get around to the show. And so we're not gonna be talking about the hard news of the day. We're gonna be debating the hard news of the past week as it is a holiday. And you know, we want to give you guys an opportunity to spend time with your family, maybe come back and watch this. So the big questions that we have in the past couple of weeks have to do with immigration, have to do with, of course, insurrection. We have a Democrat who won the primary, her primary race in New York, but she has been a part of organizations explicitly stating they want to end Western civilization, they want to end America and bring violence to America. The question then is, is this insurrectionist eligible to hold office in Congress? And as we've discussed this before, people have brought up, but what about Donald Trump and his insurrection and the argument that both sides point the fingers at each other? So we will be starting off this debate, this discussion on the issue of the latest temporary protect status ruling which will see maybe around half a million to 600,000 people being deported. Before we get started, my friends, head over to timcast.com click join now. Get in the discord Community. We got special members only stuff for you guys and it's community. If you're looking for like minded individual individuals to talk to, if you want to be a part of something, if you need help starting a project, if you want to support the work that we are doing to make it possible, we can't do it without you. So please consider joining [e-mail] that being said, smash the like button. Share the show with everyone you've ever met in your life. We got a couple, couple people joining us to have this heated and hopefully hilarious discussion. I hope we can make it funny. Brian, what's going on? Who are you?

[Brian Shapiro]

What's up man? I feel like you need to buy me like a studio apartment right down the street now. That's what I think. Brian Shapiro, I've been called worse. I do a show called Pushing the Limits. And yeah, that's, that's who I am at PTL radio show.

[Tim Pool]

Before the show starts, he's like, how much of a raging lib should I be or just be calm and nice.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

And I'm like, brian's great. He's nice to you in person, but you get him on the Internet and

[Siaka Massaqua]

he can crank turns on the show.

[Brian Shapiro]

I mean, in person, I'm not always nice. Did you see any of the videos? I did. Ian was hanging out with me. Ian, am I always nice in person?

[Tim Pool]

No. All right. All right, gentlemen. Who's next?

[Siaka Massaqua]

What's up, guys? Siaka here. Siaka Massaqua, father. I'm lead with that first actor, producer. And as you can see, I got my little ones with me always in my heart. And yeah, I am not a raging lip. So let's go.

[Tim Pool]

And then Ian, I'm just raging.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Fair enough.

[Ian]

Within. Let's go.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I mean, sunglasses, Morrison, look good.

[Ian]

Sunglasses on shut eyes. It's so early in the morning for me.

[Tim Pool]

Ian's tagline says, smarter than everyone in Congress.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Oh, perfect.

[Tim Pool]

Ian literally said that he was smarter than everyone in Congress.

[Ian]

I got to start talking myself up more.

[Tim Pool]

But the funny thing is, go big. Pragmatically, we're like, that's not true, Ian. They're smart people. But emotionally, I think, screw everyone in Congress.

[Ian]

Yeah, all of them gets the point across. Whether true or not.

[Tim Pool]

My cat is smarter than everyone.

[Brian Shapiro]

All of you?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah. Yeah, my dog's pretty smart.

[Ian]

Hey, we also got felon on the bus.

[Brian Shapiro]

On a side note, I always wanted to debate an insurrectionist, so nice to meet you.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Oh, yeah, well, I don't. I'm still. Then you're still going to be waiting because I don't have anything.

[Brian Shapiro]

That is true.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Oh, I was never. Here we go, right? Misdemeanors. I don't know.

[Brian Shapiro]

Why were you there?

[Siaka Massaqua]

I was there because I wanted to be. I'm an American.

[Brian Shapiro]

I know, but why? Why were you there?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Because I wanted to see.

[Brian Shapiro]

Do you think the election was stolen?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, I did, and I still do.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so you're. So you're a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist then.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I mean, you think it's not. So why would you not?

[Brian Shapiro]

Where's the evidence of widespread voter fraud?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Well, so you start off with California when they change the rules so they can make it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Where's the evidence about California?

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's the evidence.

[Brian Shapiro]

Where's the evidence?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Can you start the evidence? Can you let me finish my sentence to continue?

[Brian Shapiro]

So Trump lost California, Is that what you're saying?

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, I didn't say that.

[Brian Shapiro]

Where's the evidence?

[Siaka Massaqua]

The evidence was in my house when for four to five years in my own house, I was getting ballots for people who were dead and didn't live there.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's not evidence of widespread voter.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's part of the evidence. If you sentence instead of cutting them off when they finish it, I'm going, hey, semantic point.

[Tim Pool]

That is evidence. It's not proof.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right, well, so evidence.

[Tim Pool]

So let me, let me give you guys a quick, quick little breakdown of this is important for all the people who are probably mad at me saying, what do you mean? So here's a scenario I like to give. Store clerk gets shot and killed. The police find, you know, nine millimeter bullet casings. They then hear someone says, oh, his next door neighbor hated him and they were fighting all the time. I heard him screaming. They go to the neighbor's house and they find nine millimeter bullet casings in front of his house. That's evidence. They then turns out the guy actually just as a dropped him when he was leaving and he's been out of town for two weeks. He couldn't possibly have done it. Not proof, but is evidence. So when you're getting, you know, 10 mail in votes to someone's house, someone says, this is evidence. There could be voter fraud. Because these are not requested. They're lying around. Does it prove widespread voter fraud?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, so that's correct. The statement is where is the evidence that could prove widespread voter fraud that could have changed the outcome of the 2020 election? Hold on. It's been six years. The two idiots that keep you that keep talking about this are Dinesh D', Souza, who is an imbecile, and the MyPillow idiot. Okay, no, he's not a smart guy. I disagree. 2000 lies was a bullshit documentary. So where is your evidence that could prove. So there is widespread voter fraud, that Donald Trump won the 2020 election, so

[Siaka Massaqua]

is illegally changing the rules of voting in multiple states.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's not widespread voter fraud. That's not widespread voter fraud.

[Siaka Massaqua]

How does. You cannot. Like, how was it not.

[Brian Shapiro]

It was.

[Siaka Massaqua]

How was it. Hold on.

[Guest/Caller]

Can.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I mean, because you say the sentence and you complete it and I start with three words and then you cut off. Go ahead, let me talk.

[Brian Shapiro]

Go ahead.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So it works out this way. If you have two to three states that change their constitution from a judicial order, which is illegal, that's part of evidence that pushes that illegal voting.

[Tim Pool]

I would argue that's proof of widespread voter fraud.

[Brian Shapiro]

Never been proven in a court of law.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Guest/Caller]

Hold on.

[Tim Pool]

There's two different things to consider. So if your, if your position on this is were people fraudulently Making or filling out ballots. That's a different question from did executives and judiciaries violate the law and constitution to create a mechanism by which people were legally capable to do these things?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, we were. Why did they do that?

[Siaka Massaqua]

It doesn't matter. They did it. Why? That's illegal.

[Brian Shapiro]

Why did they do it?

[Siaka Massaqua]

It was illegal.

[Brian Shapiro]

So does that mean it doesn't matter? It was legal. That means I'll try.

[Guest/Caller]

I don't know.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But it was a cheating, okay, that's the whole thing. That's the whole point, brother. The thing that you guys always miss is that you go, whoa, if we find there was cheating that Met Trump won. That's not what the argument is. The argument is why do you change the rules illegally?

[Brian Shapiro]

That's not what Donald Trump said.

[Guest/Caller]

I don't care.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I'm talking about me. Well, great.

[Brian Shapiro]

Why? A lot of idiots were there on January.

[Siaka Massaqua]

When you, when you get Donald Trump to sit down with you and talk to him, then that's the argument you can have with him. But I'm not Donald Trump. You were there. Because I'm not. And I, yes, I do. And I did again three times. But the point of what I'm looking at, what I look at, Donald Trump can say what he wants. I'm my own man. That's the part you guys also miss. You think everyone's just the same person to think, well, Trump said it, so I'm gonna say it. No, I look at it from the standpoint of if a judicial, if a judge sits there and bypasses the constitution of three states that allow, that allows mail in voting when they shouldn't have, we have a problem, we have to address it. Nobody even wanted to. Why didn't they? They didn't want to. Cuz their guy won.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so let's talk about that then. Then you go, so you're your own man. Okay, fine. Well, guess what? You're not a judge. Donald Trump had 61 opportunities in court. They all said that there was no merit. Some of those judges were actually. Hold on, let me finish now. Let me finish now. Some of those judges were actually Republican appointed judges. He was Owen, 61 in the courts. You had a bunch of people that showed up there on January 6th. I would assume you were one of those people that believed in the lies, that the election was rigged or stolen. You can say that until the count pointed out.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Hold on, I just pointed out what was rigged.

[Brian Shapiro]

Are six years later point out what. I find it very interesting that when Donald Trump loses, it was rigged. When he won in 2016, that seemed to be just fine. When he won in 2024, that seemed to be just fine. Now, I understand.

[Tim Pool]

I got a fact check.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand. Hold on. I understand that Donald Trump said it was still, there was still cheating involved in 2016. I know what you're going to say, Tim, but the fact of the matter is, is that Republicans still say nothing to see here, Donald Trump won same thing in 2024 where we fact check Trump.

[Tim Pool]

Trump and his campaign filed four to six lawsuits in 2020 over the election.

[Brian Shapiro]

And how did that work out?

[Tim Pool]

Between four and six were over 60.

[Brian Shapiro]

Court appearance.

[Tim Pool]

Those were PACs, those correct.

[Ian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So, so there was no merit.

[Brian Shapiro]

The judges ruled. No merit.

[Tim Pool]

That's actually not correct. But for the Trump. And the Trump campaign is between 4 and 6. The issue was not merit. The issue was moot. The, the issue was, in the instance of many of the, many of these suits, they said the amount of ballots that would be overturned would not change the results. Therefore, it's moot. Case dismissed.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, the bottom line is, in our entire history of this country, Donald Trump's the only president that has not conceded an election. And I understand that you were not one of.

[Tim Pool]

That's, that's, that's also incorrect. Come on, who did the other guy in 1876? Okay, well, no, no, I mean, this is civil. This is, this is the end of reconstruction. The presidency was determined by a panel because there, there were a similar thing happened where states turned in dueling sets of electors. And then the Democrats, Republicans sit down like, okay, this is it, Civil War.

[Brian Shapiro]

All right, so let's just say that's 150% correct. Let's say in the past 150 years, Donald Trump is the only president to not concede an election. Now, I understand and I know this is getting into other territory, but I did a little bit of study on you and I understand you're not a violent criminal. I understand you weren't one of those people that beat police officers. But this is a really important question because I don't know what your answer is going to be on this. Are you a hostage and a patriot if you beat a cop on January 6?

[Siaka Massaqua]

It depends on the circumstances.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so let's go with, I don't know, let's go with Daniel Rodriguez, who assaulted Michael Phenome. Michael Fanone had a stroke because of that next day. And. No, you're talking about Brian Sitnik. I'm talking about Michael.

[Siaka Massaqua]

This is a question. The next day. Question mark.

[Brian Shapiro]

I know, we'll talk about. Okay, I didn't know that. I thought that was a statement.

[Ian]

Got hit with the.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, and I'm happy to get into that with you as well. Okay. But Daniel Rodriguez got 12 years in prison because of him attacking Officer Fanon. He had a stroke. Is that man a hostage and a patriot?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Well, again, it depends on the situation.

[Brian Shapiro]

I just gave you the situation.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But what's happened to him before?

[Brian Shapiro]

What are you talking about? What happened before? He assaulted a cop.

[Tim Pool]

What are you talking about?

[Siaka Massaqua]

What happened? Like, for example, did you see the videos, which I have, when they were standing there peacefully, D.C. metro comes in, starts firing pepper balls at everyone and force them back.

[Brian Shapiro]

So you're saying Michael Fanon deserved to be physically.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I'm saying scenarios are different for every situation, and we have to talk about it clearly. When they are attacking people and someone's like, what am I doing? And they. They fight back.

[Brian Shapiro]

So hold on. Let me get this real quick. Real quick.

[Tim Pool]

We got. We got to go back to the. The chain of events for January 6th. Before we even get to that point. The barricades are set up around the Capitol Building, and at some point, protesters tear them down.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They move them outside. I've seen the video.

[Tim Pool]

Well, they knocked the barricades over, push them aside, and enter into a closed property.

[Siaka Massaqua]

By the way on that, the individual in the video I've seen with my lawyer when I was in D.C. for my case, there's a man removing those barricades they have yet to even identify.

[Tim Pool]

Of course. Of course. Okay. But the point I'm making. The point I'm making is, you know, you're bringing up that the police. So this is true. The people are all standing on the Capitol. Nobody's smashing anything. Nobody's fighting. And the police start shooting pepper balls and throwing flashbangs. However, they've already bypassed the barricades into a closed space and are now swarming around the Capitol. So it's not surprising.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, no, that's not. But here. Tim, that's not true. The group that went There was about 25 people who removed the barricades by the time.

[Tim Pool]

I understand.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, the point is, if you don't know you're breaking the law and then people are attacking you, you're like, what's going on?

[Tim Pool]

That's not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is a lot of people say the police started attacking the crowd, inciting violence. But you have to look at it holistically. I understand, and I make this argument all the time there are tons of people who did not know there was any crime or anything wrong with walking up to a public building.

[Guest/Caller]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

The barricades had been removed. And Cenk Uygur screamed at me about this because he didn't know the law. He didn't know what happened. I said you cannot legally charge someone with trespass without having given them a warning of trespass. And if barricades have been physically removed from public grounds and you're walking your dog and you walk on the sidewalk, you can't trespass that. But hold on. My point is when you have. We're not talking about people that have just are walking around the grounds. We're talking about the specific area where you have what appears to be about a thousand or so individuals and they are protesting. And have someone removed these. And they all came in. It is true. A lot of these people, I'd say most of them did not expect the police to start firing pepper balls or throwing flashbangs. Now let's talk about what the police are experiencing. The police are seeing a crowd of a thousand people having knocked the barricades down, coming up to the front of the building and they say we have to disperse this crowd. They're going to use crowd control in that regard. I don't blame either side. I don't blame the individuals who did not know. I blame the individuals who tore the barricades down. But listen, we look at like antifa protests or ICE protests.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yep. I was just going to say that

[Tim Pool]

police are going to. Are going to initiate crowd control against a group.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I understand that. But the crowd control in front of an ICE facility, stopping people from coming and going and people at this time with the understanding like myself that this is okay for you to be walking over here. It doesn't sit in the same mindset when you're sitting there and you're standing there peacefully protesting as the left was saying why the fires were behind him for a whole summer.

[Brian Shapiro]

Who said that?

[Tim Pool]

But.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But cnn.

[Brian Shapiro]

But again, you're taking it completely out of context. That video. That's what you just said.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He said it's is mostly peaceful protests over. That was Ferguson.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so kidding me.

[Siaka Massaqua]

First of all, when the buildings were burning.

[Brian Shapiro]

So first of all, there was one CNN anchor that used similar verbiage like that. And there were tens of millions of people that were protesting. Of the tens of millions of people that were protesting across the country. Yes. Most of those people were not violent. I would even go as far as to say January 6th, there were about 50 to 100,000 people that were there that day. 1500 people.

[Tim Pool]

250,000.

[Brian Shapiro]

Was it that much? Okay, more than that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Great.

[Brian Shapiro]

That proves my point even better. Let's just say 250,000 of those people. 1500 people were arrested. About 600 of those people violent. And when you see. And when you see a guy like Andrew Paul Johnson, for example, who Donald Trump pardoned, he just got life in prison for sexually molesting two children, Bradley Tyler Dykes, who did a Hitler salute while he was physically assaulted, assaulting police officers. So this narrative that all these people were getting hit with these pellet or whatever, balls or whatever, they died from that.

[Guest/Caller]

What.

[Siaka Massaqua]

What narrative? There's many.

[Brian Shapiro]

You're saying the 600 people that assaulted cops, they all were antagonists. So, so will you say right now.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I said people.

[Brian Shapiro]

So will you say right now that some of these people that I have listed, like the officer who put Fanon in a stroke, like Tyler Dykes, who did a Hitler salute while he was assaulting cops, these are people who Donald Trump pardoned, the man who you voted for three times.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yes.

[Brian Shapiro]

Will you call these specific people out and say, no, these are not hostages and patriots.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They were violent. They were violent people.

[Brian Shapiro]

Are they hostages and patriots?

[Siaka Massaqua]

I don't. I can't. I don't know their full case. I can't say that. But they're violent individuals that you can't. Hold on. There's violent individuals that deserve to get the full extent of the law for their violence. I do agree with that.

[Brian Shapiro]

They were pardoned. They didn't serve. They served a couple years.

[Tim Pool]

They deserve to be pardoned.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Brian Shapiro]

100.

[Tim Pool]

Well, you're morally wrong.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah. Under the law. What is the law for assaulting a cop. And then when they went to court and they got that, they. And they were sentenced to their time.

[Tim Pool]

Let me, let me, let me, let me. What was that thing where. What was that thing where that president pardoned all those insurrectionists that you always like to.

[Ian]

Shay's Rebellion? That was.

[Tim Pool]

Tell me about that.

[Ian]

After the Civil War, the farmers that had gone.

[Tim Pool]

Wait, civil War?

[Ian]

I'm sorry, the Revolutionary War. The farmers that had gone off to fight in the war now came back and they were all, all their farms were in debt because they hadn't been working for years fighting the war. So the government, the city was like, well, we're not going to take your soft currency anymore, which is like your barter, your trade. We need hard currency to pay back the French. So farmers give us Money. And the farmers, like, we don't have silver. So they're like, then we're going to take your farms and all the farmers then go to the Capitol. I think this is up north in Massachusetts or something in that area. And they revolt, they surround the Capitol, the courts, massive violence. All these people get arrested and then insurrection. Yeah. One of the presidents, I think it was John Adams.

[Tim Pool]

I thought it was Jefferson.

[Ian]

Might have been Jefferson. Pardon me. And they just. No, it's actually John Hancock. The governor at the time decided the only way out of this is through it and pardoned everybody. He's like, look, this is past trauma, it's past injury. And there's no way forward if we harm half the country right now. So we're pardoning everyone and moving forward.

[Tim Pool]

So I want to bring up leaders. The issue with the first thing I'm going to say, you name these specific individuals and they sound like bad people. But I don't think it's fair to ask someone to condemn an individual they don't know anything about. Just on your word. If you, if you said, well, you condemn John Smith. Look, I don't know who the guy is.

[Brian Shapiro]

Give me a little context on who John Smith is. And if you tell me John Smith did a Hitler salute and then he assaulted police officers, Tim, I don't have to know him personally to say that is an awful human being and he deserves everything he gets.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, no, you won't say that, but

[Siaka Massaqua]

you are selling scenarios different.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not going to just trust what you're saying is true and insult another person.

[Brian Shapiro]

Look it up.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, I understand that. My point is not on this specific individual. By all means we can say, don't do these things. They're bad things to do. But I'm just saying in a debate to be like, here's one specific individual,

[Brian Shapiro]

here's another, I'm not giving you one. I can give you plenty.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But.

[Tim Pool]

But I'm going to explain why. Why these people needed to be pardoned. The first question that anyone needs to ask is, what is the amount of time an individual typically gets on a first offense for assaulting an officer?

[Brian Shapiro]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

Is it three years in solitary? Solitary is considered torture by many countries.

[Brian Shapiro]

And if they have a record, it's a case by case.

[Tim Pool]

That first offense, Right?

[Brian Shapiro]

It depends. Now, I can give you my personal opinion on what I think about assaulting police officers. Whether it's Black lives matter or January 6th. I would say, in my personal opinion, if you assault a police officer, which is a horrific crime, first offense at

[Tim Pool]

a protest, I think.

[Brian Shapiro]

I think it should be a minimum of three to four years in jail. Well, these guys are the cop, but this guy serious.

[Tim Pool]

So this guy did serve that time. And so the issue with the pardons is there are people that probably should not have been pardoned. But the problem is that I have personally met individuals. I met a woman, her and her husband got 18 months in prison in federal prison for misdemeanors. Because around like 3 or 4 o', clock, I can't remember the exact time. This is after this, all violence, everything's cleared out. People are already leaving. They were walking through this throughout the. Through D.C. they come to the Capitol building where there are no barricades. They're on the other side where there was no violence. They walked up the stairs where the doors are open and they walked inside and asked people what was going on. And the police said, there's a protest.

[Brian Shapiro]

I know what you're talking about. They've done this story.

[Tim Pool]

They then left and then a year later, feds kicked their doors in front of their children and arrested them. And the judge refused to allow them to present evidence that was exculpatory.

[Brian Shapiro]

So Tammy, that's wrong.

[Tim Pool]

And I need.

[Brian Shapiro]

And I.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Majority of those things are wrong.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm not. And listen, I've been very consistent on my opinions on this.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

But I'll even take your circumstance. I believe that there's no question that there were people that were overcharged. There's no question that there were certain situations where it was politically motivated. And in those specific situations. Completely agree with everybody in this.

[Tim Pool]

So here's the issue.

[Brian Shapiro]

But I'm talking about government violent, criminal.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But again, say violence, that he deserved to get punished for his violence. Did I not just say that?

[Brian Shapiro]

Trump called all those people.

[Tim Pool]

I don't care. Yes, but now we have to.

[Guest/Caller]

Here's.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, you were going to go on the point.

[Guest/Caller]

Sorry, go ahead.

[Tim Pool]

My point is when you have a mass prosecutorial event that is proven malicious, we just wipe it out. You have no choice. That's why I brought up Shays Rebellion. Owen Schroyer was permitted to be there. He in the. In the Infowars guys had a permit to be outside the Capitol doing a rally. He never entered the building. He was walking around with a bullhorn. When they convicted him and sentenced him to. He went to federal prison, I think. Right. For two or three months. When he went to prison, when they were sentencing him, they explicitly stated that because in the interim after conviction, he went on his show and spoke politically about his views and support for Trump, he deserved extra time in prison. So when something like that happens and you know the prosecution has said, we will target you for your politics and we'll punish you for supporting Trump, the only thing you can do is say, we are wiping the slate off. Now with all that being said this, these bad guys who, who hit cops and everything went to prison for three years.

[Brian Shapiro]

I don't think it's enough.

[Tim Pool]

And some got solitary confinement will change the law.

[Siaka Massaqua]

And the problem, the biggest problem wouldn't

[Brian Shapiro]

matter if you changed the law because he would have pardoned them.

[Siaka Massaqua]

The biggest problem that I have with where people like you come with your arguments is that you focus on those and you don't focus on the innocent people who did. Grandmother. No, you don't wrong.

[Brian Shapiro]

You're wrong. You don't listen to my show. I know Pam Hemple. I've interviewed her. I've interviewed.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Do it with this passion.

[Brian Shapiro]

Wrong.

[Siaka Massaqua]

You don't.

[Guest/Caller]

You're wrong.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I've watched enough of you that you don't do wrong.

[Brian Shapiro]

What people have I interviewed on January.

[Siaka Massaqua]

You don't go out and go, hey, you know what was wrong? The fact they didn't let them use their own evidence off their phone to sit there and prove themselves barred. They wouldn't let them use evidence, man. So, so it's like the judicial wouldn't do that. And no one. So many people on the other side of the fence sat there and go, I don't care. You're a problem because you're trying to.

[Tim Pool]

You got to understand.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's the problem.

[Tim Pool]

You understand Brian's a fascist and he believes that in judicial proceedings, the government should be allowed to bar individuals from, from bringing sculptory evidence.

[Brian Shapiro]

I ask you, what did you say about. I'm definitely not a fascist. What did you, what did you say about. What did you say about Brian Sidnick? He did die the next day. You don't think it had anything to do with.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, no, no. I said he died the next day.

[Brian Shapiro]

Right. Did you feel like, like what happened that day might have played a role?

[Siaka Massaqua]

I don't know. He died of a stroke.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's what I do know. Which.

[Brian Shapiro]

Are you aware of what the coroner said?

[Siaka Massaqua]

The coroner said that January six did have something to do with it. But when you talk about strokes and you talk about plaque going into your brain, that doesn't happen in a day.

[Tim Pool]

What about that happened?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Wait, that happens in a lifetime.

[Tim Pool]

But hold on, hold on.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Okay, well, we can't just say, oh,

[Brian Shapiro]

here's what I'm going to say.

[Tim Pool]

They said natural causes.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, but here's what the. Here's what he also said. He also. The medical examiner noted, and you're correct, that the violence and what he endured that day, including getting assaulted with a chemical substance, played a role in his condition.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah. Now, what about eating like crap? Does that.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so.

[Tim Pool]

So look, actually, Baba got shot and killed, so it's like. I don't think. Absolutely. We don't play this.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But how many. I mean, how many protesters died that day? How many.

[Brian Shapiro]

There was another five. There was Ashley Babbitt. There was a woman, I believe, that had a heart attack, and she was trampled that day.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

One guy fell off.

[Siaka Massaqua]

One guy was.

[Brian Shapiro]

Listen, it was a horrible. It was a horrible day.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But there's no. But there's nobody on the other side going, wow, these. These people who didn't know what was going on. She shouldn't be. She shouldn't have been beaten to death. This one woman. This one woman shouldn't have her brain scrambled and then get kicked out of her apartment because she can't work because she was in a tunnel.

[Guest/Caller]

It's a woman.

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Guest/Caller]

Why don't.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's the part we're waiting for. Because all you guys want to do

[Guest/Caller]

is sit there and go, you beat cops. You beat cops.

[Siaka Massaqua]

What about everyone else who had their life ruined? What about the fact that I was on a list, that I couldn't fly for three years and. And not charged with a damn crime? That's fascism. And no one ever talks about that. Why don't we ever talk about that? Why don't we ever care about that?

[Brian Shapiro]

Here's what I'll say.

[Guest/Caller]

They beat the cops and that's it. They beat the cops. Our career was ruined because I just

[Siaka Massaqua]

was standing someplace and they painted.

[Brian Shapiro]

Your career ruined.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, was.

[Tim Pool]

Was pardoned. Right.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No. Until I just leaned all hard in. Right.

[Brian Shapiro]

So here's what I'll say to that. Here's my one concern, right? Beyond somebody's career. I think about the families who have lost loved ones. I think about the officers who have traumatic brain injury. I think about people who have, you know, injuries that they have to suffer through for the rest of their lives.

[Siaka Massaqua]

A lot of J Sixers. A lot of them were J6 that were just standing there, bro. Again, you don't think about them. And this is proved my point, because as you're bringing out who you think about.

[Brian Shapiro]

You didn't hear what I just said. The problem is you don't think about

[Siaka Massaqua]

the 106 police officers that you were going to go down the list that, who were, who had injuries, but you didn't open a word about the guy who was pushed off the stairs.

[Brian Shapiro]

You're not listening to my words, so I'll repeat myself once again. The people who were injured, yes, there were officers that had traumatic brain injury, but anybody who was injured that day, that didn't commit any crimes, I absolutely feel for.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So why then? Why, let me ask you, why do you not see the government go after these people in a way that was not even, it wasn't even reasonable? And they ruined their lives, bro. And I don't hear a word, I don't hear a word from the other side about average people having the weight of the most powerful government who. And the other side I don't hear is the fact that the lack of security. No one goes, huh? How did these random people just get in here? As opposed to. It's supposed to be the most protected areas yet. If you had your bodyguard, who you said it was awesome, if he dropped the ball, you're not gonna just be mad at the person that attacked you. You're gonna be mad at this individual that you hired to do the president. And no, that's not the job.

[Guest/Caller]

Do you know the law. Who controls the security?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Who controls control. And I know who controls the security.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand a couple of things there. First of all, Donald Trump had the power. Who controls the power to call in the National Guard. Did he not?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Who controls. Did he not try to.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm asking, did he not try? What did he do?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Did he not try to do that? He asked him, do you guys want

[Brian Shapiro]

the January six Commission?

[Siaka Massaqua]

He said, do you want this?

[Tim Pool]

All right, guys.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He said he wanted. Who controls the security at the Capitol?

[Brian Shapiro]

Donald Trump, President of the United States.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Who controls.

[Brian Shapiro]

Donald Trump had the power to call

[Tim Pool]

on the national question I asked you.

[Brian Shapiro]

He did.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's not the question I asked you.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's been proven.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Please not do that.

[Brian Shapiro]

What you said.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Can you please. No, it's not. Can you please answer my question before we move on? Can you answer that question? Who's in charge of security for the.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, obviously, you could, you could point the finger as well at Nancy Pelosi.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Okay, but Donald, but, but, but, Tim, I'm going to say, yeah, that's it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Thank you. But Donald Trump called in the National Guard within the flip. I want to, I want a couple months back. Did he not?

[Tim Pool]

I want to, I want to bring this into the modern era.

[Brian Shapiro]

He didn't do that.

[Tim Pool]

Because there's. There's a couple of things that are going on since then, so we'll move forward. But the last thing I'll just say on the issue, because you made a point, is I'll use one example. There's a woman who lived in. Who lives in Alaska. The feds raided her home because friend of mine, she looked like somebody who was in the Capitol.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

So they, they. They raided her home. I mean, this is pretty crazy. That's not. That's not evidence. That's. That's shocking.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So I think the issue that, you know, Sacka brings up, that I often bring up is I sit down with somebody and they say, someone punched a cop. Someone. I'm like, those people all deserve prison. Assaulted an officer, first off, not hostage

[Brian Shapiro]

and patriots, they don't deserve money.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, that's a different question. The people who are violent, the people who turn on barricades and smash windows, all deserve prison. But here's the issue. When I pointed out the majority of people who are actually charged largely with misdemeanors, you have more than half of the people on the other side of the building where there's no riot. The rioters on the. On one side of the building get in and they go and open doors are on the other side. Internally, the police themselves open doors.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

Then there's a bunch of people walking around. And what do they see? The doors were opened and this is a public building.

[Siaka Massaqua]

In my video, you hear me go, is this where they're letting people in?

[Ian]

Where people. Yep.

[Brian Shapiro]

There were no. You have made statements that are incorrect. You've. First of all, how many officers let people in and how many officers were working that day?

[Siaka Massaqua]

But the one that I saw, there was two cops right there. And then there was a line of cops. Again, there was a line of cops.

[Brian Shapiro]

Can I just respond to what he just said? So some of those.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Anything.

[Brian Shapiro]

Some of those cops. Some of those cops testified under oath and some of those cops said. Which I completely agree with. Makes complete sense to me. If you have one cop per, say, 100 people, and you have an armed officer there, you basically have two choices. Choice number one, you take out your gun, you point it, and maybe start shooting at people, which I think everyone here would agree. We didn't want them to do. Number two, you let them in. You have two choices in that situation.

[Tim Pool]

Why would you. Yeah, yeah.

[Siaka Massaqua]

The third choice is what they did to me. Hey, go back the other way.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay, Officer, thank you.

[Brian Shapiro]

You don't think. You don't think they tried to do that.

[Guest/Caller]

Did it for me. I literally.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. The point I'm bringing up once again. Guys, stop. This is what I'm trying to get to. We have already concluded the portion of violent rioters are bad and deserve prison. Now, there's some contention there, but we largely agree. So we're moving past that. My question is when the doors have been opened and a fine gentleman over here is walking around with no idea what's going on on public grounds, and they put him in prison. Put them in a. Put him on a no fly list. You didn't go to jail.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I didn't go to jail only for one night, but they terrorized me.

[Tim Pool]

But again. Right, right. So there are people who went to jail for. For a year or two having been walking around doing nothing. This is prosecutorial overreach, and it's malicious.

[Ian]

I got a question about assault, because if you spit. If you spit on an officer, that's considered assault. But also if you grab him by the hair and pull them on the ground. No, no, no.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on.

[Ian]

We got a battery too.

[Tim Pool]

So typically. And this. And there are some jurisdictions where this is different. Assault is putting someone in reasonable fear of harm. Battery is taking an action, a physical contact that results in either harm or embarrassment.

[Ian]

So are there levels of assault where like a guy spit near a cop and then he got three years in solitary and a guy like pushed a cop and got in his.

[Tim Pool]

Typically, assault on an officer doesn't mean you're spitting near a cop. Also, an officer means usually attacking a police officer.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so I just about the doors being open. And by the way, when you have one officer and hundreds of people there, an officer, if you told them, just tell people to go the other way. Some of those. Hold on. Some of those officers would laugh at you. That wasn't working. When you have hundreds of angry people that are trying to storm the Capitol, it works with some people. Sure.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Worked with.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, guess what?

[Siaka Massaqua]

It worked with you because I talked about it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on.

[Siaka Massaqua]

And you know what? Again, the problem worked with. You shouldn't have came to my house with 15 agents.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's a difference.

[Siaka Massaqua]

In my face.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's a different.

[Guest/Caller]

But that's.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's the problem. That's the ultimate problem.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'll get to that in a moment.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's the thing.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'll get to that in a moment.

[Guest/Caller]

So when you're talking about the.

[Siaka Massaqua]

There were cops standing around. I was talking to them.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's it.

[Tim Pool]

And they didn't say shit.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on a second. Hold on.

[Tim Pool]

He's already been swearing.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's what you're talking about. I'm happy to talk about that with you, but that's not what I'm referring to right now. All I'm simply saying is maybe with somebody like you, when an officer says, you can't go in here, leave, maybe it would work with somebody like you. I guess it did. But there were people that. They were violent people. Some of them, they weren't listening to Capitol Police. So I'm going back to what I said earlier. You have two choices. When you have people that appear to be a threat to you, that could hurt you, that are. Appear to be violent people, you have two choices. If you're an officer with a gun, either. Hold on. You either take out your gun and start shooting them or you let them in. By the way, if you're in a bank, okay, and there's a security guard at the safe and he says, come right in, does that give you the right to go in there and steal money from the safe? No, of course stealing is wrong.

[Tim Pool]

Actually, actually, hold on. That does create interesting legal problems.

[Brian Shapiro]

Maybe perhaps because security guard has gone there and just steal all.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no. Actually, depending on the circumstances, you may have a hard time prosecuting that case.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right. Because an individual standing in a bank

[Tim Pool]

and the security guard says, no, you can. You're free to enter. And they go, oh, okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

Security guard would. Would. Would be breaking the law.

[Tim Pool]

So here, here's. Here, here's. I got something for you. And the first thing I'm going to tell you is I'm about to say something. You will give. You're going to. You're going to give me an incorrect response. Okay, so the first thing I'm going to say is, you're. Get ready for it. January 6th is proven to have been an inside job.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

Confirmed.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

And I'm going to prove it to you. I can prove it to you now. Give me a response first.

[Guest/Caller]

So.

[Tim Pool]

And then I'm going to explain to you why it's true, actually.

[Brian Shapiro]

So claims that the FBI.

[Tim Pool]

I didn't say that.

[Brian Shapiro]

Orchestrated January 6th.

[Tim Pool]

I never said that.

[Brian Shapiro]

You never said that. Okay.

[Tim Pool]

I said it was inside job.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay.

[Ian]

By who?

[Tim Pool]

By police.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay. So there was an investigation in 2020, one of it allegedly being an inside job that was debunked. The report came out in 2024. I know you didn't. There were no undercover agents that were there. There were zero full time undercover FBI employees that were present in the protest.

[Tim Pool]

Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Sorry.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm just going by the report that

[Tim Pool]

I need this response because this is important for everybody who's listening right now, so I can explain.

[Brian Shapiro]

Now, there were informants that were present.

[Tim Pool]

So. So, so, so the reason why I asked this question in the way that I did, and the reason why I got to pause you saka is you have changed the definition of inside job to fit this narrative.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, who. Who was it? Tell me.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so hold on. The next thing I want to. I want to ask people is what is your understanding of what an inside job is? Well, let's start with a bank robbery. When there's a bank robbery and the police are investigating and they say this appears to be an inside job, does this mean that they were undercover federal agents? Does it mean that the head of the bank was in on it? Does it mean that the head of the bank brought in a bunch of like seven or eight security guards to orchestrate a big robbery? It does not. It could, but typically it refers to a single. A single low level employee who provided aid to the criminals in some capacity. So an inside job at a bank. Almost 80% of the time, 90% of time, they're not usually referring to the CEO of the bank setting up a robbery. They're referring to a janitor propping open a back door with a broom so that the bad guys can sneak in the back. An inside job just means someone working within this bank aided those criminals.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand what your definition is.

[Tim Pool]

So there are a few things to consider. First, did you know that a man was acquitted specifically because the police fanned him into the building?

[Brian Shapiro]

Now, I'm unaware of.

[Tim Pool]

There is a man who was acquitted. This is early on.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Black dude, right? I think he's the only one.

[Tim Pool]

He showed video where the police officer waved him into the building, and he points and he's like. And he walked in. They then criminally charged him. And he says, this officer invited me into the building. That's an inside job. I'm not suggesting the FBI orchestrated genuine.

[Brian Shapiro]

You think the FBI, or it was an inside job with the FBI?

[Tim Pool]

No, I don't.

[Ian]

You don't? Matthew Martin was that guy's name. Who.

[Tim Pool]

And this was a big deal. And. And this is when I brought up the point that, you know, Cenk Uygur snapped on a show screaming and ranting about. I said, when a cop waves you to come on in, you can't trespass a person who was just asked to enter. Now, there's more Inside the building. Whatever your argument is as to who is violent, we know that there are a lot of violent people. We know that some people entered the other side of the building, and that's why they weren't charged with felonies. They were charged with misdemeanor trespass.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

However, there is surveillance footage showing the shaman being walked with the police and they opened the door. That is the definition of an inside job. Now, hold on. I've heard your argument about you have two choices, a gun or you let them in. In that the shaman was by himself, surrounded, surrounded by seven or eight police officers.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

Who said, come with me, sir, right this way. And walked him into the Senate chambers.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, I saw that video.

[Tim Pool]

That is an inside job.

[Brian Shapiro]

No. Okay, so let me respond to that real quickly. So, as you know, Tim, there's. There are a lot of people on the extreme right that say it was an FBI inside job. I know you're not saying that.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Brian Shapiro]

But here's the deal, right? Cash Patel, about six months ago, made statements saying that there were going to be arrests, that it was an inside job, that they literally have made statements like that within the Trump administration. If, in fact there are people that broke the law and there's some sort of inside job, then where are the arrests? Let's present that evidence in a courtroom. Yeah, I saw that. What is it? The shaman. Is that you pronounce this name. Whatever the fuck his name is.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's Michael Jackson's interlude.

[Brian Shapiro]

And I've interviewed that clown, Jacob Chancely. Is. Yeah, Jacob.

[Tim Pool]

He's not. He's not a Trump guy, by the way.

[Brian Shapiro]

I know, but he's a clown living in his mom's basement. I've interviewed him before he ran for office. He got destroyed. He got embarrassed. He's got an IQ of about 20. But anyway, that was. That was not fair. That was weird video. I did see that and I'm hearing you. All I'm simply saying is we keep hearing from the Trump administration. Inside job. Inside job. There's going to be arrest. Well, Cash, where the hell are the arrests? I keep coming.

[Tim Pool]

Agreed.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So. So, like you think, you keep hearing it like that. Who do you think is more frustrated about that, you or me?

[Tim Pool]

Well, let's look. Yeah, we all agree we want to see action. No, but under the presumption that's. They're making these claims.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But the point. The point I make on that is the fact that, dude, those arrests vindicate. And the belief that we have, in so many nonviolent, especially nonviolent even some that killed themselves. J6ers want to see.

[Ian]

What are you guys about arresting and then pardoning those people?

[Siaka Massaqua]

The ones that the inside.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, yeah. After three years of solitary, maybe we'll.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, maybe we'll talk about it. But, but here again, and I was. We were talking about this earlier. I, I personally think J6 was more than just like, oh, hey, let's present it as insurrection for one side and let's like freedom fighters for others. To me, it's. It. Part of it was government working on technology to be able to come and find all of us in a certain way. And everyone that crossed that border of. Onto the grass got their phone pings that we talked about before. A lady who was pregnant at the time got pregnant. She was standing on the grass. She was put under nine months of house arrest because she was an insurrection by January 6th. She also then never threatened to take her, her baby away because they were just, they were, they were being terrorist.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me ask you a question.

[Tim Pool]

They're being.

[Brian Shapiro]

Donald Trump's behaviors that day bother you at all? He did four hours. He did nothing. He sat on his ass and he did nothing.

[Siaka Massaqua]

His behavior, he said, he said peacefully, not patriotically.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm not talking about the state. Hold on. I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about just the statements he made before. Okay. I'm talking about the three and a half to four hours when he was asked and begged by members of his administration to put out a video.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, wait, hold on.

[Guest/Caller]

Nothing.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so hold on.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hours later.

[Tim Pool]

Let's, let's, let's, let's pull this into the future.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Why does Nancy Pelosi.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so guys, charge, dude. Okay, guys, guys.

[Guest/Caller]

She's not in charge of the.

[Tim Pool]

We're going to move forward and we're going to try and make.

[Guest/Caller]

This is the tip.

[Siaka Massaqua]

We're going to move forward.

[Tim Pool]

We're going to move forward because.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Real quick, please, real quick. This is the problem. It's, it's, Everything's Trump's fault. But the people who actually can be

[Tim Pool]

held responsible, which is what I'm trying

[Brian Shapiro]

to call the National Guard in five minutes a couple months ago.

[Guest/Caller]

Why did you have five people.

[Tim Pool]

We're going to meet you. We're going to meet you guys in three seconds because you're starting to debate something we debated 20 minutes ago. Again.

[Brian Shapiro]

He brought that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So the next question we have is on the merits.

[Brian Shapiro]

Censor me.

[Tim Pool]

I will censor you, brother. The, the, the insurrection question, the behaviors of Donald Trump and Eligibility for office, which brings us halfway to today. So one of the big issues we have right now that's up for debate is this woman, Dariel Isa Chevalier. She has just won her primary, which is a de facto win for Congress because she's in a Democrat district. She is part of two organizations. Cuad, it's been reported. Cuad, which is reported as a founder of, which is Columbia University Apartheid Divest, as well as its sister organization, I believe it's the National Society for Justice for Palestinians, nsjp. These. Both of these organizations have put out statements saying that their goals are to destroy either Western civilization or to destroy America by bringing violence to America. So this is a stated insurrectionist, I guess, intent and rebellious, etcetera, of some, as you'd call it. And now there's a question of whether or not she should be allowed in Congress. How can you swear an oath of the Constitution having explicitly stated you intend to destroy this nation? Before we get to that, though, we're gonna go halfway with the question of Donald Trump's eligibility. Did Donald Trump incite an insurrection and participate, thus making him ineligible for office?

[Brian Shapiro]

It's a good question. Jack Smith might have something to say about that when he leaves office. I think Jack Smith has a pretty good case. But it's a very slippery slope, as I ask Trump supporters all the time, and I understand you and I disagree on the 2020 election, but I always ask people, if Donald Trump doesn't lie, and I consider it a lie that the election was stolen, does January 6 happen? Obviously, the answer is no. Did he incite it? Well, I go back to, if he's not lying about the election every day, months before January 6th, that day does not happen now. We'll have to wait and see what happens when he leaves office. My understanding is they did not charge him with incitement. But I would certainly say that if not for Donald Trump lying, saying the election was rigged every day for, like, almost two months before January 6th, it doesn't happen.

[Tim Pool]

But that's not legal incitement in any capacity.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's a slippery slope. It's a gray area.

[Tim Pool]

I don't. But it's not even a gray area. If I said that. If I. If I publicly defamed you in the most egregious of ways, accusing you of violent crimes against children or whatever, that's not incitement. That's defamation.

[Brian Shapiro]

I would say dereliction of duty would probably be easier on the day that it happened. Then. Then incitement. I think that's a Better case you make.

[Tim Pool]

But he's not an insurrectionist.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand that. I'm just saying that's probably, I could probably make a better case for that is inaction that day.

[Tim Pool]

So. So again, by all means, if you want to accuse Trump of some kind of wrongdoing, the principal question is, is he eligible for office? And Democrats tried in several states to bar him from running for office again under this argument that he incited an insurrection intentionally with the purpose of overthrowing the US Government. Now, again, I'm stressing this. This was a principal mainstream liberal position that was held by prominent Democrats across the board in multiple states, and they spent millions, if not tens of millions to actually try to implement that strategy.

[Brian Shapiro]

I mean, listen, you can make the same argument about Republicans and Benghazi and the eight investigations that were led by Republicans and it happens on both sides. They waste money argument. And I think we should be talking about, you know, more. What we know is that didn't happen. Obviously, Donald Trump, Trump is the President of the United States.

[Tim Pool]

By all means, you can rag on Hillary or rag on Trump for going after Hillary. The question is, if we want to have a debate on Benghazi, we can. But the question is, did Donald Trump orchestrate and incite an insurrection for the purpose of overthrowing the US Government?

[Siaka Massaqua]

No. No.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

No. I look at, I look at Trump like a sausage fingers guy. You know what I mean?

[Brian Shapiro]

Like, well, his fingers do look like sausages.

[Tim Pool]

This is my point. When he's dialing the, like, Covifi everybody, like, what is cove Trump sausage fingers his phone and accidentally pressed send him.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's it. You and I, you and I know some, some of the same people, very prominent people on the right that I've had private conversations with. And in some of those private conversations, Donald Trump has admitted he lost the election. So in private, but, but, so there's

[Tim Pool]

a, there's an issue there. Right. I feel like a lot of the conversations, the left likes to play a semantic game. The question is, what is the context of what is being said? So if Donald Trump behind the scenes says, I've, I've lost, does what does that mean?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, legally, it doesn't really mean anything,

[Tim Pool]

but what is he, is he saying, they have out procedured me in a way that is illicit and wrong, but I cannot.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, I think, I think we're getting in the weeds here.

[Tim Pool]

Or is he saying the people of America don't like me and have voted against.

[Brian Shapiro]

I think we're getting in the weeds here, Tim. I think it's very simple with Donald Trump. I think we all know that the man can't admit he loses at anything. He's a narcissist. I think that's what this down comes down to. He doesn't care about election integrity. But again, I don't care about any of this stuff. He just can't admit that he lost.

[Tim Pool]

That's fine.

[Brian Shapiro]

But it comes down to.

[Tim Pool]

But. But there is a question of what, what he. What is he referring to? What did he lose? Did he lose a procedural game against Democrats or did he lose the will of the American people? Here, two different questions.

[Brian Shapiro]

I think you can make the argument he maybe perhaps both. I mean, listen, I'll take myself, for example. My vote for Joe Biden was an anti Donald Trump vote. Joe Biden wasn't my first, second or third choice. I'll say the same thing about Kamala Harris. This going back to 20. Going back to 2020. I always hear the same argument from MAGA Republicans who claim that, you know, Trump won. He got 81 million votes. Well, let me tell you something. A lot of those votes were anti Donald Trump votes. Now, I don't think Joe Biden was a horrible president. I don't think Joe Biden is. Is a bad guy. But I can tell you a lot of people voted for Joe Biden, especially the pandemic during that time because it's an anti Trump vote.

[Tim Pool]

Let's come to today.

[Brian Shapiro]

Trump doesn't spread any problem.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Well, he doesn't have six different stations in on your face all day. He doesn't have musical artists talking all day. He doesn't have the actors talking.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, okay.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Not to the Kid Rock is one person you're gonna count Kid Rock or an entire capital.

[Brian Shapiro]

Fox News, newsmax or Oan you've got.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So you have three. I've been on Fox network Oan joke. I've been on all of them too.

[Brian Shapiro]

Fox News is a joke of a network.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I've been on all of them. But you're talking the number one.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay.

[Siaka Massaqua]

One that everyone. It doesn't. What are you talking about?

[Brian Shapiro]

Sued for $900 million. Did they have to. Who did the.

[Guest/Caller]

Who did. And you know. And you know what?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Didn't they just drop their lawsuit against the mypillow guy?

[Brian Shapiro]

No, no.

[Guest/Caller]

Didn't they just do that?

[Brian Shapiro]

I didn't ask you about.

[Guest/Caller]

No, no, no.

[Tim Pool]

But didn't.

[Guest/Caller]

They just dropped it. Fox settled. Fox didn't admit any guilt.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They settled.

[Brian Shapiro]

Why did they.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Because they were scared cowards. They were scared cowards.

[Guest/Caller]

If they had waited like Mike, they would have dropped Did.

[Brian Shapiro]

Oan they were cowards, too, but Mike Lindell wasn't.

[Guest/Caller]

Did they drop it against Mike or did he. What happened to Mike? You have to pay him.

[Brian Shapiro]

So I'll answer these.

[Guest/Caller]

Stand tall.

[Tim Pool]

Answer that he stands on the job.

[Brian Shapiro]

I find it very interesting.

[Tim Pool]

Oops.

[Brian Shapiro]

That the mypillow drug addicted idiot that you're defending.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, so.

[Guest/Caller]

So now it matters. When did. Did they hold on the law?

[Tim Pool]

I got to stop you there. I got to stop you there. I'm going to give credit to Hunter Biden for getting clean. And Mike Lindell deserves the exact same respect.

[Brian Shapiro]

I still think Mike might be on something. But anyway, with that being said, I don't think Lindell TV is at the level of I don't care about bigger networks.

[Siaka Massaqua]

What I'm talking about.

[Brian Shapiro]

I would care.

[Guest/Caller]

I wouldn't say I'm talking about him personally.

[Brian Shapiro]

All right, well, congratulations.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They went after him.

[Brian Shapiro]

The eight people watching Lindell tv.

[Siaka Massaqua]

The point him personally stood tall and then they dropped it.

[Tim Pool]

Lindell 1.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, the point that I was trying to make is you use the term propaganda. I just interviewed Hunter Biden last week. Okay? The propaganda about his laptop and that he was with underage girls. The propaganda. We talked. You guys talk about Burisma, but you don't want to talk about the billions of dollars that Donald Trump has made in a crypto scandal. You don't want to talk about the $6 million government contract with Don Jr. You don't want to talk about that stuff, but talk about Hunter Biden's paintings. So if you want to. Hunter Biden bullshit about propaganda, that's all you guys do.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Was Hunter Biden's laptop. Was his oppressed or no during the 2020 election.

[Brian Shapiro]

What's in the laptop? What did he.

[Tim Pool]

What did he do?

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's not what I asked. You don't answer a question. That's women.

[Brian Shapiro]

Tell me.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, I'm asking you what suppressed it. So you don't think it was.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on, hold on.

[Siaka Massaqua]

You don't think it was at all then.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, tell me. Facebook, FBI, Facebook suppressed it, I think.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Which would include Instagram, Twitter, Twitter. Twitter at the time. It doesn't matter, man. It's about suppressing information to try to craft the narrative. Certain thing, right?

[Brian Shapiro]

Say the same thing about the Epstein files.

[Guest/Caller]

No, they do matter because I was

[Siaka Massaqua]

screaming about the Epstein files before it became cool for your side to actually care about people.

[Guest/Caller]

Not true.

[Brian Shapiro]

What are you talking about, not true?

[Guest/Caller]

You have. Give me. Give me all the leftists. Give me the prominent leftists that talked about Epstein files before Trump said it was.

[Brian Shapiro]

Gladly, I will please. I will gladly. First of all, please, I don't speak for the left. Okay. I'm not. Okay. But I'm going to tell you my personal. Well no, you're. You're a far right wing person. Why would.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, no, no. You want me to speak for the right?

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm going to, I'm going to give you my personal opinion. Okay, here's what I will say. Every single Democrat voted to release the files recently. Every single one. Here's what I will say. My personal opinion is on the Epstein files and I've been very consistent on this. Even when Maxwell was was facing trial I said I don't care whether it's somebody on the left or the right. I don't care if it's Bill Clinton or Donald Trump. Here's what we know right now.

[Tim Pool]

All right, let me tell you guys,

[Brian Shapiro]

the right was literally camp. They were campaigning on this. You remember the binders? Yeah. Remember Jack Posobic and all these idiots with the binders out there?

[Tim Pool]

I'm gonna that work out. Okay guys, let me throw some knowledge out there for the average person there can learn about that there Hunter Biden laptop and why I think it's very likely the man will not do a sit down interview with me. So I think he will.

[Ian]

I disagree.

[Tim Pool]

We'll see what was relevant in the Hunter Biden laptop. I did not care all that much about the illicit photos. I mean those call into his question his character. People made fun of his teeth because he was getting his teeth redone. And initially I will fully admit I did not know that that was actually dental work getting done. I thought his teeth were actually just bad and he had messed them up. And then people explained to me that photo of his teeth, it's because he's actually getting teeth work. I was like oh okay. A few things crack would be. There was an email about the China deal in which he made a reference to 10% held by H for the big guy. Tony Bobulinski did an interview where he basically said this is money being held for the vice president at the time. This is basically we're doing backroom deals with these corporations. The next issue of course is the issue of Burisma where we learned about Hunter Biden receiving money to be on the board of Brisbane. Now the interesting thing is this is deep political stuff that I think the American people need to reconcile and they don't want to. And that is the response from liberals over the Burisma issue was that this was all in line with U.S. foreign policy. The fact that Joe Biden went to the President and said if you don't fire the prosecutor, you're not getting a billion dollars, which is illegal. But it didn't matter if it was legal or illegal because US special interest, CIA, military, et cetera, wanted this to happen. Big story. It connects to everything, including Iran. So I will keep it succinct. Russia runs Gazprom gas pipelines through Ukraine. They control about 20% of natural gas into Europe. The past 20 years of conflict have largely been centered around getting cheaper gas into Europe for economic expansion. We have been hindered. The west has been hindered in quite, in quite a many ways. Assad blocked the Qatar Turkey pipeline. Russia was controlling prices through Gazprom. When we could not alleviate the pressures, Russia then starts running gas through Nord Stream. Yeah, and so the CIA blows that up. It was actually a Ukrainian guy. He's been indicted by the German authorities and it is believed to have been at the behest of the us, the CIA, to stop Russia from, from winning favor over in Europe and putting them in a sphere of influence where Russia has more control. We didn't like that. Bashar Al Assad, ousted largely because he aligned with Russia would not allow these gas pipelines. So Hunter Biden, there's a, there's a former director of counterterrorif for the CIA on the board of Burism as well. People need to ask these questions. Mykola Zlachevsky is the founder of Burism. It's an energy company in Ukraine. The purpose of this company is to create a competitive mechanism by which the US can fight Russian gas power in Europe. Hunter Biden's position on this was, I would argue, of course there's nepotism. This guy's not getting this job without his dad being the vice president. But it's because they want to put in a high level American aligned insider in a foreign company so that Western and US influence over energy in Ukraine is controlled. They can't put Joe Biden in there. He's literally an elected official. So they need people who are outside of government but are loyal to government and proven so that the west can control this influence. So you get a former counter director of counterterrorism and you get Hunter Biden. Now I'd love to talk to him about this because I'm sure he might just say something like, well, I got a job and that's all it was.

[Brian Shapiro]

I did talk to him about it. He gave me a different time frame as to when his. His father was not the president or the vice president. But here's what I'll say in general terms about this. I think there need to be laws and, and stricter laws put in place so that family members can't take advantage of who their father is or who their mother is in certain positions. With that being said, yes, of course he got the Burisma gig. I think it was $50,000 a month. Something about Monday.

[Tim Pool]

No, no. Well, it's been reported at 80, of course. Million a year.

[Brian Shapiro]

Of course he got that gig because of who his father is. Of course. With that being said, the levels of corruption that we've seen under Donald Trump are immeasurable.

[Tim Pool]

I got to stop Jared Kushner, $2.1

[Brian Shapiro]

billion from the sound.

[Tim Pool]

I'm going to stop you because I'm bringing up this so that we can have a through line of this conversation around, like we're moving forward. We absolutely can talk about Trump and all those things you want to say. I don't want to get off this subject because we're talking about the Hunter Biden laptop.

[Brian Shapiro]

Why it was relevant in the Hunter Biden laptop. And I even. I spoke to him about this. This was when he was suffering from drug addiction. Yes. There's stuff on there, some, Some pictures that I make them look great.

[Tim Pool]

And I'm trying to say this, like the reason why I don't want to derail instantly into what, what Trump has done to Kushner.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay. I'm.

[Tim Pool]

But again, I want to make the point, and I hope the American people understand this. Well, not literally every single person, but those watching the US Government is going. Is doing these things all of the time.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yes.

[Tim Pool]

They're doing it under Obama, they're doing it under Bush, even Trump. There is going to be Western operations that you will despise, that they are going to do, and it's going to make things better for you. Now, here's the funny thing where I can wrap this up with a neat little bow. The principal reason that people are pissed off if, like, this, this, this, this issue with Biden, and I gotta be honest, if they didn't bring gay communism into institutions, schools, movies, and otherwise, you people are gonna be like, if you said, I'm saying literally. I'm not.

[Guest/Caller]

You're not wrong.

[Tim Pool]

But it's just if, listen, listen. If someone, if you go to a Trump supporter and the question you got to ask yourself is, do people genuinely Understand their own feelings. The answer is no. No, absolutely not. This is why, like, people don't have this ability to be introspective. So when I talk to somebody and they say, I can't stand Joe Biden, I'm not going to listen to the words they're saying. I'm going to look at their actions and I'm going to try and find the underlying causes of stress in their lives. And typically, you'll find that most people want to strike at a symbol of what they feel is causing them strife or oppression or something to that effect. Left does it, the right does it. So when you ask a Trump supporter and they're complaining, the Hunter Biden laptop. Right, I'm going to pause. Okay. I'm going to say, I'm going to say to you, sir, do you really care that the United States deployed special assets and interests to control natural gas in Europe? I think the answer is no. So why are you mad at the Bidens? They're going to find any reason to point out impropriety because, and I'll say this, it comes down to, I went to watch my favorite movie and they made my favorite story, and Anne Boleyn's now a black gay woman. Star wars sucks. Why is everyone yelling at me? I can't watch basketball anymore. So what happens is when someone watches the BLM riots, they say, why are these people smashing and burning things down and no one's getting arrested. These are the things that affect them on their daily life. They want to play a video game, they're told they can't, so they built up this. There's an anger they feel because of what is directly impacting them. Then when someone comes to them and say, those Bidens, they're all woke. You know what Hunter Biden did, too, he was in Burisma. And they're going to say, they are my enemies. They have made things that I do not like. So now I'm going to latch onto something that normally would not matter to me because it makes them my enemy. But you had similar similarly for Trump,

[Brian Shapiro]

going back to the Hunter Biden laptop real quickly and then we can move on. But you had mentioned again the word propaganda. I interviewed woman who is a lunatic by the name of Tina Peters, who just got out of jail.

[Tim Pool]

Right?

[Brian Shapiro]

Tina Peters, when I interviewed her a few weeks before she went to jail, claimed she had the hard drive of the Hunter Biden laptop. Now, she is an absolute frickin lunatic. But if you want to talk about propaganda, all the people out there and Listen, there are people that say things, you know, on the right and the left, obviously, that are not true, but that Hunter Biden was with underage, you know, Asian girls. And I heard all this weird. Okay, I'm going to tell you something about Hunter Biden. He's not a perfect man. I've gotten a little chance to get to know him over the last few months or so, and he is a smart guy who struggled through drug addiction. And what he is doing now is admirable. He is helping people that struggle with addiction. He's admirable. He's not perfect. I'm sick of people calling them the Biden crime family, but yet the same people who go after Hunter Biden and go after the laptop and talk about Joe Biden or the people that don't want to talk about the $2.1 billion that Jared Kushner took, but let's talk about the levels of corruption. I want consistency.

[Siaka Massaqua]

What's. Yet. That's.

[Tim Pool]

As do I.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's the point. Consistency. When January 6th happened, everyone was an insurrectionist. No one wanted to look into. Hold on. This is all. No, I'm going through the whole thing. This may not have been you, but I'm telling you, from sitting on this side of the fence when you're looking and everything, everything was negative for Trump. And something just like the laptop to go. At the very least, the lowest level. Why are they censoring this stuff?

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Let's go back to Covid. Hey, man. I heard before everything came out, I heard, like, these Indian doctors had a report taken off the Internet because it was showing what really happened and you couldn't say anything. And one side was like, well, as long as I wear the mask and take the shot, I'm the good guy. You guys don't deserve to go to restaurants.

[Brian Shapiro]

Restaurant Operation Warp speed. Is that a good thing?

[Siaka Massaqua]

I don't really care. Because I don't care. No, I know you voted for Donald Trump.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm just curious what you're. You're an anti vaxxer, right?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Well, not a necessary anti vaxxer. I just didn't believe in that thing that came out of nowhere and didn't isolate the.

[Brian Shapiro]

So don't. So don't take it.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I didn't.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, what's the problem?

[Siaka Massaqua]

You shouldn't inside something. Because I didn't take it.

[Tim Pool]

It was mandated.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, I was.

[Tim Pool]

First of all, did they force J6ers in jail to get it?

[Siaka Massaqua]

In jail? They did, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

That's crazy.

[Brian Shapiro]

As in general terms, I almost died of COVID But in general terms, I've never been pro mandate. I've also my personal. Tell me if you disagree with this personal opinion. I know we're getting into another topic here, but I've always said this should be a personal decision between your personal physician who knows your medical history. As you know, in this country, two thirds of people in this country have comorbidities. It's horrible. A lot of people that are very unhealthy. I've never said that you should be forced to be vaccinated. But here's my issue, and I think we will agree on this. You shouldn't be telling other people what to do. Don't chastise someone because they are vaccinated. I'm a type one juvenile diabetic. And again, I'm not saying you did that. No, but, but, but I, I, I

[Tim Pool]

almost blame you personally for his diabetes. That's the debate.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I get it.

[Brian Shapiro]

I've been called diabetes before.

[Ian]

Wait, wait.

[Guest/Caller]

You got to be careful.

[Tim Pool]

What if he finds a time. By the way, go back.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'll give this pickup line to Ian. Ian. Good pickup line. You're so sweet. You gave me diabetes.

[Ian]

He's very good.

[Brian Shapiro]

Anyway, that one home. Listen, I've been very concerned that. Right. You know, nobody should have been forced to have taking the jab. However, don't chastise others for getting vaccinated. You know, I've, I've debated Trump supporters. But the chastisement and they get the vaccine. You liberal. And I said, well, guess what? Trump got vaccinated, you idiot. I mean, these people are.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Here's my, here's the difference. Here's the difference. People lost their jobs because they didn't. And no support from the, no support from the average person. The average person who should be like, dude, you can't fire Joe. Joe's one of my workers. He's my homie. If he doesn't want to take it, that's his right. That's not what happened. It was, get them out of here. They're pariahs. People holding signs. Put them in gas chains.

[Brian Shapiro]

So if you own a business, the

[Siaka Massaqua]

thing that was going on.

[Brian Shapiro]

So if you own a business, you don't think you should have the right to do that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

You should have the right.

[Brian Shapiro]

If you own employees.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, no.

[Tim Pool]

If you own a business, I don't

[Siaka Massaqua]

think you should not, not for employees.

[Brian Shapiro]

Because that's just asking you.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, not, not for employees. Because under most state constitutions, including ours,

[Tim Pool]

you can't discriminate based on so during

[Brian Shapiro]

the, during the pandemic, when I was at a radio station, I had to do my show out of my apartment and nobody was allowed in the radio station. My personal opinion is if you own a restaurant, you know, you can kick somebody out for wearing a MAGA hat if you want to.

[Tim Pool]

D.C. well, in certain places, but D.C. is the one place.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's wild, but for the most part, you can kick someone out if you don't like their shirt or.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, yeah. You can not. No service. Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

So I'm kind of like. My opinion is if you, if you're. If you're running your own business, you can. You can do things the way you want to do, as long as you're not, like, discriminating.

[Siaka Massaqua]

This is where the propaganda came in, though. All the major news stations, except even Fox jumped in there. If you take this, then this will happen, will be good for society. Those who don't take this, it's getting in the way. Cnn, msnbc, Fox News, Fox News even said Ben Shapiro.

[Guest/Caller]

There was Ben Shapiro, who at the

[Siaka Massaqua]

time, I was like, what the hell?

[Brian Shapiro]

Here's the thing. Here's what I'll. Here's my response to that. Okay, real quickly, let me get the vaccine.

[Tim Pool]

Let me just.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He's like, you're stupid if you don't. And I'm like, wait a second, bro.

[Brian Shapiro]

Benjamin Netanyahu could bomb every country in the world and I'll support it.

[Siaka Massaqua]

What are we doing? Anyway?

[Guest/Caller]

Let me back.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm going to love you. Then listen, you're got the new. I'm coming up. You know, your experience on January 6th, you're obviously very passionate about. Okay, I'm giving you my experience on Covid. Right. And there's a reason why I'm saying this. You know, before the first vaccine came out, I almost died. I was in the ICU for two weeks. I got the vaccine after that, got Covid a couple more times. I had the sniffles.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Brian Shapiro]

It saved my life. That's my personal, you know, and story on it. But here's what.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I've been happy for you.

[Brian Shapiro]

Thank you. I've been very consistent. Paralyzed.

[Tim Pool]

Brandon, this.

[Brian Shapiro]

The world wasn't ready for this. Okay. I had a problem with the way Donald Trump handled it. Example, Herman Cain. Let's talk about him for a moment. I've interviewed Herman Cain was a really nice guy. So Donald Trump was holding these rallies when we were losing two to three thousand people a day. He made. Or his people in his group made people sign waivers, basically saying that if you got Covid, you can't sue us, right? Herman, Kate is a guy who suffered through cancer and survived it. He wasn't wearing a mask, went to one of his rallies, got Covid, died a week or two later. I believe during that time, that was very irresponsible. Now, I'm not saying everything was perfect. I'm not saying masks were. But here's the last thing I'll say on this, and I'll land my plane here. I don't listen to idiots on CNN or Fox News that don't have any medical credentials at all telling me what I should do with my life. When it comes to. When it comes to that medical unit,

[Siaka Massaqua]

a lot of them sent people off.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, guys, guys, guys. O. Okay, okay. The problem is not Donald Trump making statements. It's Dr. Peter McCullough. It is Dr. Drew. It is Robert Malone.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Who's that African chick that was literally like, oh, it was her name. Ruined her career.

[Tim Pool]

There are medical doctors that came out, and guess what we've learned since then. They were correct, in fact. Nature.com so this is a nature.com article that caused a splash back in April. MRNA vaccine immunity is enhanced by hepatocyte detargeting and not dependent on dendritic cell expression. In layman's terms, there was a few. There were a few questions that came out during COVID pertaining to the vaccine around myocarditis, pericarditis immunity itself. One of the big areas of contention was that, I think, you know the famous Rachel Maddow clip where she goes, what we know now is that if you get this thing, it stops with you. That's it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, that was wrong.

[Tim Pool]

Indeed, it was wrong. This is important because it evolved from the vaccine will stop it to. It's 90 effective. It's 80 effective. When it turns out, actually, this study shows it was not effective at all.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

What this study shows is a couple of things the MRNA vaccine technology could not target. Could not. It's called addressing. So the idea is this. Initially, they were hopeful. We got a lot to talk about. Let's go back in time. They've been researching MRNA technologies for decades. They've never been able to figure out what's called addressing. That is, if you're going to. If you're going to deliver RNA sequences through fatty lipid particles, you need them to target specific cells so that they work, but they don't know how to do it. That's why they've never actually rolled this technology out. And they've been working on it. Since the 80s. So what happens is initially they say you get the vaccine in your arm, the vaccine stays in your arm, targets the muscles. The muscles will receive RNA which programs them to produce spike protein. White blood cells will then attack those cells, destroy them and create an immunity to the spike protein, which will then when the coronavirus comes in your system, the white blood cells will see the spike proteins and attack them. The problem they couldn't actually guarantee addressing of the MRNA vaccine. What happened? The vaccine would spread through the body. One big outcome, according to Stanford, was that it would target heart muscle cells and this would then cause heart muscle cells to produce spike protein and then it would cause the body's immune system to attack heart cells, resulting in myocarditis and pericarditis. According to Stanford, the rate at which we now know men 30 and under received myo and pericarditis was 1 in 16,750. That is not a rare side effect. Common side effects are called 1 in 300,000. That's common. So what is it when it's 1 in 16,000? So we were seeing a wave. Now here's the scary thing. Myo and pericarditis are typically believed to shorten lifespan by about 7 years on average per person. So we saw massive amounts of this. I have family members personally affected by this. Now it gets scarier. Brian, this one's important for you with nature.com what they found was if the MRNA vaccine traveled out of the muscle, which it did in, in most people because they could not address it properly, if it got into the liver, it did the inverse and made you more likely to get Covid multiple times. When the MRNA hit liver cells, it told the body to tolerate the spike protein. And thus people kept getting Covid over and over. Now, the crazy thing is there was a conspiracy theory that people had, these people who are these, these doctors who are called crazy whack jobs, right, that if you got the vaccine, you were more likely to get Covid. And they said, that's insane. Now they made the argument first it was going to stop it. Then they said it was 90% effective, 80%. There were doctors saying, no, if you get this, you're going to get Covid more. And they said, now that's just crazy. It may not stop it perfectly for everybody, but they said it would reduce the severity of symptoms. We now know nature.com this is a huge, huge study that freaked everybody out. If the MRNA went into your liver, you are going to get Covid more forever.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, but that Stanford study I believe that you are referring to also said in that study that if you get Covid, you are 10 times more likely to get myocarditis. That is. That is what they.

[Tim Pool]

100%. Now combine it with this. You are more likely to get Covid if it affects your liver cells.

[Guest/Caller]

Now.

[Tim Pool]

Now, which is more likely to cause my own pericarditis.

[Brian Shapiro]

Here's what I would say in general terms, right? And I think we all could agree on this. Every vaccine that you take has its risks. Perhaps some more than others completely agree,

[Tim Pool]

but we're talking about media and government lying to the American people.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's the part, bro.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, again, the big part.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Like all the people that said, hey, I don't trust this thing. So many from doctors to our own government, you can't even participate.

[Tim Pool]

Just. Can I just say something else? Like, you guys, let's throw the signs out the window. Let's, let's. We're sitting here arguing hepatocyte targeting. Like, what does it even mean? Let me just tell you a story. My wife and I went to Frederick, Maryland, to get some sushi.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Now, the crazy thing is we so covet starts. We're in Jersey, and I largely. I, I. You notice it a little bit, but I'm in the suburbs, so we have a backyard. I go outside when I want to go to Walmart across the street, we go to Walmart across the street. There's weird lines, but for the most part, nothing's really going on. We end up moving out here. So it. And this is like 20, 21. I think it's crazy how long this. This went on. We go to get sushi. It is a very small sushi restaurant in Frederick. You walk up the side of the building, up a ramp. We walk in the front door. We're not wearing masks. And there is. Right when you walk in to the host stand, there is a table 3ft next to us, and no one is wearing masks, eating their food. And I walk up and I say, two. And then he goes, okay. And he grabs my nose and goes, you need to put your masks on. And I said, nobody's wearing masks. And they're like, no, you have to wear a mask. And I said, I'm sorry, I don't understand, like, just us or, like, genuinely confused. And he was like, you have to wear a mask. And I said, can I just sit right down in this chair next to me and not wear the mask? And then they were like, no, you have to put the mask on. And then I said, are you kidding me? And all of the staff went, no. And then I was like, we're leaving. How fucking was this country? And they were. And this is the Democrat. This is the media. What is going on, guys? There was no one wearing masks, sitting down. Not a single person. And there was a chair next to me said, I will sit down right now. I don't want to put a mask on and take it up. What am I going to do? Like that. That's. That makes literally no sense.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's the problem.

[Tim Pool]

This was psychotic. Psychotic.

[Siaka Massaqua]

And the fact that there is one side that doesn't seem to want to go, yeah, that was messed up. Like, we shouldn't have done that.

[Brian Shapiro]

I mean, I could give you examples of the other side as well.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right across the.

[Brian Shapiro]

For their chips in the vaccine. The government did. The government chips in the vaccine.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Hold on.

[Tim Pool]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Siaka Massaqua]

The other side of us.

[Tim Pool]

That's not an argument. Because nobody was mandating you not get the vaccine because that chip.

[Brian Shapiro]

Private business, while I disagree with their.

[Tim Pool]

No, stop.

[Guest/Caller]

This was.

[Tim Pool]

This was. This was. This was unconstitutional mandate by executives in Frederick and Maryland. It was not a law. I'm sorry. It was not a law. And it wasn't a private business. The business didn't want to do this. They were forced to under duress by threat. And this is. This is what you got to understand. This was executive. This was executive mandate, not law. This was a governor saying, do it or else.

[Brian Shapiro]

So here's my opinion on that. First of all, I actually just wrong.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I actually get into it. Is that just wrong?

[Brian Shapiro]

I think it's wrong to attack people and businesses for.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, no. Is it wrong to cash. No. Is.

[Tim Pool]

I am not attacking. I am not saying it's.

[Ian]

I am.

[Tim Pool]

I am. It's not a law. I am not attacking a business.

[Brian Shapiro]

Made the decision, then the governor.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They put the weight on the governor.

[Tim Pool]

The governor of Maryland mandates.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So this is what we saw. They said, state of emergency mandate. I am not blaming the business because the police threatened them. I am blaming the fascistic government that said do stupid things.

[Siaka Massaqua]

How California would shut down businesses. They would sit there and find businesses who didn't want to follow their Covid mandates and then tell them and then shut them down. And so then if they try to open up, they'll come back.

[Tim Pool]

And do you remember. Do you remember there's a restaurant in California.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yes. The guy who's parked his truck in front of the.

[Tim Pool]

No, no. There was a woman who had a restaurant. She made a video. She said they told Us, we can't allow people inside. So we set up tents outside parking lot and they. And they said, you can't do that either. And then across the street, Hollywood production had craft services tents for their.

[Brian Shapiro]

Ask you both the question.

[Tim Pool]

Insane.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me ask you about the question.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Try to figure out where we stand here. Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

Because I think we can go to extremes on both sides.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So during.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on a second, let me ask you about the question. So at the time when the peak of this. When I think we were losing somewhere around 4 to 5,000 people a day, that was the peak. Do you think that would have been an appropriate time to have 60,000 people in a stadium watching a football game, not wearing masks, nothing.

[Tim Pool]

If they so choose.

[Siaka Massaqua]

If they chose.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well, I disagree.

[Siaka Massaqua]

It's a choice. What was, what's.

[Tim Pool]

What was the death. What was the morbidity rate, mortality rate for Covid.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Those who died in covet.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no, no. In general. What is the mortality?

[Brian Shapiro]

So obviously these were usually older people, not younger people. People that were. Had comorbidities.

[Tim Pool]

No, no. What was the mortality rate?

[Brian Shapiro]

I. I don't know. I don't have the exact stat in front of me. I don't know.

[Tim Pool]

It was twice that of the flu.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Wasn't that zero something?

[Tim Pool]

Zero point, like 03, 0.2 or 3?

[Brian Shapiro]

I thought it was a lot more than that.

[Tim Pool]

No, that. That's. And. And initially we all did too.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's. That's right there. That's the perfect thing. How many thought it was a lot more.

[Brian Shapiro]

How many?

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's what they were.

[Brian Shapiro]

So how many people did we lose?

[Tim Pool]

0.3.

[Brian Shapiro]

How many people do we lose from the flu every year on average?

[Tim Pool]

Just to get the facts straight. For, for the. I don't know what they call this the age stratified, meaning if you are above a certain age or below a certain age. The mortality rate was between less than 0.01 for people under 40, upwards of 0.1 for those that were over 70, it was between between 5 and 20%. Right. So this was largely, largely a virus of the elderly.

[Guest/Caller]

Oh, that.

[Brian Shapiro]

That would be with the flu as well. And that would be in general with any sickness. If you're under the age of 40, you have a much better chance. By the way, the doctors told me, they said this to me when I was in the ICU. They said, Brian, if you aren't in your 30s. I think I was like somewhere around 40, late 30s. They told me, they said if you were in your 60s, you would not have Made it. So I think that's rather obvious, right? Your immune system is going to be stronger. So that doesn't surprise me at all. But this was a. Let's, let's just be clear here. This was a very deadly virus that killed millions.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's not the point.

[Tim Pool]

So just, just, just real quick, very

[Siaka Massaqua]

important was like when someone, anyone said opposite the narrative, you were cut out of polite society. That was the problem. That's it. I'm not saying that if somebody wanted, if you wanted to get shot up all day, dude, go ahead. If I go, you know what? I don't know if I trust this thing they just came out with last week and they hadn't isolated the virus.

[Tim Pool]

Here's the point.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I still be able to go to the movie theater if I want to. Shouldn't Gavin Newsom not sit there and go, we're shutting you down? Shouldn't San Francisco not allow 74% of all.

[Brian Shapiro]

How many more people you think?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Never, never.

[Brian Shapiro]

How many more people you think would have died if everything was open?

[Siaka Massaqua]

I don't know.

[Guest/Caller]

Honestly.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Honestly, it probably been more like Sweden where they did herd immunity and they let people be and their death rate was completely plummeted.

[Brian Shapiro]

We had one of the worst death rates, correct me if I'm wrong, in the world per capita.

[Siaka Massaqua]

People away from the sun. Vitamin D was a big fighter of this and we told people to stay

[Guest/Caller]

inside and cover your face and breathe into your own.

[Tim Pool]

My not.

[Brian Shapiro]

I've made.

[Guest/Caller]

That's insane.

[Brian Shapiro]

I've maintained insane.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Is it not?

[Brian Shapiro]

I've maintained the same opinion that I always have, which is this infectious disease. Doctors, my personal physicians, while they're not always going to be right, I will certainly listen to those that have the medical experience than idiots on them in the media. People that have no medical experience at all doesn't mean they're always going to be right. Clearly there were mistakes made. And by the way, if you want to go toward politically mistakes that were made and people that were saying things or using Covid press conferences and using them as campaign rallies, well, I'd be happy to go into that with you as well and Donald Trump's failings. But I will say this. There were a lot of mistakes made all over the world, including the United States. We were not ready for a global pandemic. A lot of mistakes were made. A lot of lives were lost. I think we all know somebody that died of COVID and it was tragic.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I don't. We know people and states. We saw the results and decided not to Follow that. We saw what Sweden did and they came out with papers.

[Brian Shapiro]

Was the person who left it up to the states, like, nah, it was Trump.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no, no. That's not true. That's not true.

[Brian Shapiro]

You're wrong.

[Tim Pool]

Thomas Jefferson, I'm not kidding.

[Ian]

Had a couple of fact checks.

[Tim Pool]

The federal law doesn't have the ability to go in and tell a state how their executive is supposed to handle things like ins. Fact check.

[Ian]

The doctor that I've mentioned earlier, the African American physician that was banned, Dr. Stella Emanuel.

[Brian Shapiro]

Is that the demon sperm doctor?

[Ian]

I don't know.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yes, I believe that.

[Brian Shapiro]

The one who believed in demon sperm.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, Very credible.

[Ian]

The United States also did have the highest raw number of COVID deaths annually.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Upwards most of it was that again,

[Tim Pool]

the United States had the highest raw

[Ian]

number of COVID deaths globally, surpassing 180,000 by 2020 of August and approaching 900,000 two years into the pandemic. However, when adjusted for population, it was about equivalent to global deaths.

[Siaka Massaqua]

We had more than China.

[Ian]

Well, according to the numbers, China didn't really.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I don't trust. Here's the question about that. How many, and I would love for you to check it out. How many had to revise that number of deaths because they were targeting multiple deaths.

[Tim Pool]

People with. Yeah, there was a famous case with it.

[Siaka Massaqua]

You died. You got in a motorcycle accident.

[Tim Pool]

Exactly. A motorcycle accident in Illinois. This was publicly stated by their chief medical officer and the governor. They said, you need to understand the listed COVID deaths are not. Not from, but with. And they explicitly stated a man died in a motorcycle crash. He tested positive for Covid. That is a COVID death.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, if you. Again, if you want to talk about propaganda in the network that you've been on Fox News, Peter Navarro was just on Fox News the other day and just blatantly said, quote, Dr. Fauci created Covid now.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, didn't that come out now? Tulsi Gabbard.

[Guest/Caller]

But he did.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, but he did.

[Brian Shapiro]

He's the one.

[Tim Pool]

This was three years ago.

[Brian Shapiro]

Intentionally created this virus.

[Tim Pool]

You didn't know that?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, listen, hold on, hold on.

[Tim Pool]

This is not that three years ago. This, this, this is testified by people working in nih.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, NIH outright.

[Brian Shapiro]

Should he go to jail?

[Tim Pool]

No, because. Because, okay, first of all, Fauci should go to jail for lying to Congress. That's, that's, that's been stated. Newsweek reported that years ago, this story was already confirmed. The US was providing funding to the Wuhan Coronavirus laboratory, which ultimately resulted in the creation of COVID As a question of, did Fauci intentionally create what is called COVID 19 for the purpose of. No, no, no, no. They were doing gain of function. This is what. This is what we have definitively. They were doing gain of function research. It resulted in the creation of various coronaviruses. One of them was accidentally leaked from that lab, which becomes COVID 19. This was intentionally created. Now the question is, did they make a biopan to kill people? Was there a big conspiracy? We're not anywhere there. Not anywhere there. Where we are is. Dr. Fauci oversaw NIH, providing funding to Eco Health and these other organizations which were then helping to fund when. So it's circuitous.

[Brian Shapiro]

That is. That is the language that is a little bit different than the language when used on Fox.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, here's the. Here's real quick. When Fauci was asked, and this is what I really, really love. I love this because it's just semantic retardation. When he was asked by Rand Paul, did you fund gain of function research? Fauci goes, we did not fund gain of function research in Wuhan. What we did was we brought in viruses and gained them functions. I'm not kidding. Imagine, Imagine. Imagine this and literally watch the interview. Watch his statement. That's why people saying, you should go to jail. Imagine if someone said, if you ask me, Tim, is there a door to this studio? And I went, there's absolutely no door to the studio. What this studio has is a porthole with a wooden obstacle and a hinge that prevents it from being moved without someone activating a mechanical device. That's what Fauci did. He said, we didn't fund gain of function research. What we did was we fund the isolation of viruses through various species and then had those viruses be gained functions by reproducing those viruses. And Rand Paul was like, you are literally describing gain of function research. In fact, he held up a piece of paper that said, here's you in your paperwork saying you are. You are funding gain of function research and women and factors.

[Brian Shapiro]

Like, I remember that. And then Rand Paul campaigned off of that and fundraised off of it. I do remember that.

[Tim Pool]

And the DOJ can't do anything because Joe Biden pardoned that man for everything for 11 years.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I mean, so. So here's the point. All the deaths you're talking about, whether he meant to do it or not, who's responsible?

[Brian Shapiro]

You think that he. While I'm asking you whether that's not.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's not the case.

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Siaka Massaqua]

If. If he did That's.

[Tim Pool]

Again, let me clarify. I would say, what is the purpose of creating a Frankenstein virus? I am not suggesting Fauci was like, I'm going to release this and kill millions. I'm saying he was like, I'm going to make a virus that'll kill millions.

[Guest/Caller]

Oh, crap.

[Tim Pool]

It got leaked, right? There's a difference between I want to kill people.

[Siaka Massaqua]

If you are responsible, if you create the thing and it kills millions, shouldn't we all call for that person to be held responsible or lying to Congress about it?

[Guest/Caller]

Right.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Isn't that just a rational position?

[Ian]

Depends on who the millions are. Because the, the H bomb, we didn't put those guys in jail. They just killed the right millions.

[Brian Shapiro]

We're in war.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, I like that. Who won the war? You know, they just killed the right millions.

[Brian Shapiro]

I want to ask you a question.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, but that one was.

[Brian Shapiro]

I knew we were going into this obviously talking about Donald Trump. Right. And we're talking about the coronavirus. Yeah, I believe that. But what he did when he was in office, I give him probably an

[Siaka Massaqua]

F, maybe a D. What would you have done different?

[Brian Shapiro]

I wanted to pick your brain on that. What would he have done? So. So I'll list a number of things and mistakes that he made. Now, I mentioned the rallies he held, which I thought was inappropriate. And they knew it was inappropriate because that's why they were having people sign waivers because they didn't want to be sued. And people did die because of that. When, when I was watching his coronavirus press conferences, and I believe probably we all were right. We were all locked up. Most of those press conferences were not giving people advice or telling people the seriousness of the virus, most of which he was just bitching and complaining about Joe Biden. It felt like a campaign rally at those, at those press conferences.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Not what I saw.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, that's not what you saw.

[Siaka Massaqua]

When I saw those, he was like,

[Brian Shapiro]

hey, did you inject yourself with disinfectant?

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, cuz he didn't say, tell me to go do that.

[Brian Shapiro]

What did he say?

[Siaka Massaqua]

He didn't tell me to go do that.

[Brian Shapiro]

Ultra rays.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He was like,

[Tim Pool]

hold on, hold on. No, no, I just can't do this. Brian, you really got to use Google before you say stuff like this.

[Brian Shapiro]

What did he say?

[Tim Pool]

There, there is a UV device that they put in your lungs that fries viruses and bacteria.

[Brian Shapiro]

Use the term disinfectant.

[Tim Pool]

And Trump is what I would describe as a sausage fingers. So when he said when. When they said, what were the term? A hydrogen bleach.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They said the bleach.

[Tim Pool]

Bleaching surfaces will kill these things. And UV rays. He's like, I wonder if there's some kind of like, light or just the fact that maybe someone could. We can just take internally or. Or inject. That would blast it.

[Brian Shapiro]

See, Dr. Burks and the look she was giving when he did not literally

[Tim Pool]

say, you should go out there and inject it into your body.

[Brian Shapiro]

That. That was being facetious. But I remember. I remember that press conference.

[Ian]

Very, very.

[Tim Pool]

But here's the funny thing.

[Brian Shapiro]

And then the next day. Tim. I'm not say. When he was asked about it.

[Tim Pool]

I don't know.

[Guest/Caller]

No, I know.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on. You should Google it.

[Tim Pool]

Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

The next day, he said he was just joking.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Why?

[Tim Pool]

No, because he's a sausage. Fingers.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He was joking.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay. No, no, no, no.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's very appropriate. Very appropriate. It wasn't nobody.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Because he was trying to keep the things calm instead of get turned up

[Guest/Caller]

like everybody on the left was joking. Yes.

[Tim Pool]

He said it because he's bad at pr. Okay. Because what he should have said was because he. He asked. He asked a. I would call it a half. Stupid question. I don't think it's stupid to ask a question when someone's talking about UV light therapy and disinfectants.

[Brian Shapiro]

I respond to that.

[Tim Pool]

Let me finish this point.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

It's not stupid to say, is there a way we can use that inside the body.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Body.

[Tim Pool]

And someone can say two things. One, there are technologies that are being tested to.

[Brian Shapiro]

For.

[Tim Pool]

For throat viruses and lungs where they will put UV light to kill the.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

On the surface, Donald Trump should have responded with, I was just asking a question. I don't know.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, so here's the stupid part. First of all, if he wants to ask that question, you don't do it at the press conference. You do it in private with Dr. Birx. That's number one. Number two, if this is what he knows, he says something stupid or maybe I shouldn't have said that. What does he do?

[Tim Pool]

Sounds.

[Brian Shapiro]

I was just joking.

[Tim Pool]

Stupid.

[Brian Shapiro]

To your point. Okay. To your point, he was just joking. You just said he was. There was not one person in that room that smiled, including Donald Trump. It wasn't meant as a joke. He said something stupid. Okay? Now if we want to argue it wasn't stupid or there was nothing wrong with him saying that. Okay, fine. That wasn't a joke. That was him lying.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He wasn't lying.

[Guest/Caller]

He was literally.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He was like pointing out, hey, isn't it. You know why he came and said it was a joke because. You know why he went and said it was a joke? Because low T's came out and started

[Guest/Caller]

crying that he even wouldn't mention anything instead of taking a moment ago. You know what?

[Tim Pool]

That can't be real.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Hold on. I'm just gonna move on from it.

[Tim Pool]

This is what he does.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He says crazy stuff, have the quotes.

[Tim Pool]

Trump was right. Trump was right. Trump was right.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me respond.

[Tim Pool]

Here we go. Nih, I got it for you. Trump was right.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me, Let me just. Let me.

[Tim Pool]

So no, hold on.

[Guest/Caller]

On.

[Tim Pool]

While you mock Trump, I will absolutely mock Trump for going, I was just joking. Shut up, Trump. No, you weren't. That being said.

[Guest/Caller]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

I just pulled this up from 20. From 2021, where they literally did application of UV light in critically ill patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome, where they found that it did result in a reduction in respiratory SARS CoV2 viral burden. So Trump is mocked and made fun of. And then instead of being. Instead of just going, well, I was just. I'm not. I'm not a doctor. I was asking a question and. Or even having the appropriate advisors to say, Mr. President, this therapy does exist. When it comes up, show them for it's five years later and libs are being like, ha. Trump so dumb.

[Guest/Caller]

They fucking did it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay, well, I'd love to see the study on how Covid was cured from this, but going, no, no, no, no, no, stop.

[Tim Pool]

UV light destroys vira and bacteria.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand that it wasn't cured for Covid.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Like, there's no, there's no overall understanding when it comes to. Comes to Trump or Trump supporters. It's like endotracheal. This is why you say he says this directly. And the way he said it, it's because he said it this way. There's no, like, context.

[Brian Shapiro]

I don't understand. I don't understand stuff.

[Tim Pool]

Let's, let's, let's, let's. Guys, guys, guys, let.

[Brian Shapiro]

I want.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yes.

[Ian]

UVC light effectively kills Covid.

[Tim Pool]

Of course, I could go on and on

[Guest/Caller]

like that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

And look at the response.

[Brian Shapiro]

I would love to. I would love to look at the

[Siaka Massaqua]

response of going, is that. Let me go look.

[Guest/Caller]

It was like, you're crazy.

[Tim Pool]

And then that's what I thought.

[Guest/Caller]

I heard him go.

[Tim Pool]

And then Trump, Trump. Instead of being like, actually, I was right about the whole thing. He goes, no, I was joking.

[Brian Shapiro]

He wasn't right about the wavelengths between

[Ian]

200 and 280 nanometers damages the genetic material of the virus.

[Guest/Caller]

I mean, here's the.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Here's a proof, right? What.

[Guest/Caller]

What?

[Ian]

Dangerous for human.

[Siaka Massaqua]

What happened when he mentioned Ivermectin and. And hcq? What happened in the media when.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, let me pause.

[Ian]

Let me start.

[Tim Pool]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm gonna start from the beginning.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

TechCrunch ran a story that the French were investigating the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat the symptoms of COVID and reduce viral load.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Donald Trump. This is what I love. I love, love, love. And I mean that. I mean that. Ironically, Trump would see something in the news, then say it, and then the news would immediately invert their position on it. Yes, TechCrunch ran the story because we covered it, and they said they're investigating the use of hydroxychloroquine.

[Guest/Caller]

I went, wow.

[Tim Pool]

Then a day later, Trump goes, you hear about this thing they're doing in France with the hydroxyclone or whatever it's called. And then also, the media goes, trump's an idiot. Telling you to put fish cleaner in your. In your body.

[Brian Shapiro]

There were a few people that died doing that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's not what he told.

[Tim Pool]

But. But hold on. Indeed, indeed. There are many people who do dumb things. Did you know the story about the. The executive in Canada who ran full speed out of his window and fell to his death because he was trying to prove that his glass. His skyscraper window was bulletproof? So when you come to me and say, somebody ate fish cleaner, I'm gonna be like, yeah. And some. And three women took a selfie in front of a train, and the train hit them, too.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Like, they're dumb people.

[Tim Pool]

They're absolutely. What do we call these? Darwin Awards?

[Guest/Caller]

Darwin Awards.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of people. Again, it goes back to Brian. Like, all I think a lot of us want on the right is a

[Tim Pool]

kiss and a pat on the head from Trump.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, that's it. Finally. That's it.

[Guest/Caller]

Thank you.

[Siaka Massaqua]

All right, well, thank you for coming.

[Ian]

Positive.

[Siaka Massaqua]

We got another.

[Tim Pool]

Go to bed. You want to kiss you on the floor.

[Siaka Massaqua]

It's like, be. Be fair. All right, let's say I went down in Covid. There was clearly one side that couldn't say, let's move on from COVID Lose the whole. Your whole. I don't even know if it was.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, guys.

[Ian]

It was just a way of.

[Tim Pool]

Let's move on.

[Brian Shapiro]

I just want. I just want to touch on the low T statement real quickly.

[Tim Pool]

Okay. Okay. Let's move on from the COVID stuff. I want to talk about something modern because we were Trying to get to it and the COVID thing happen. So Darieliza Chevalier has. Has she had a drink?

[Siaka Massaqua]

What is that? She's the one who wants we mention her.

[Tim Pool]

Indeed. She's a. She's a Dominican from Florida. She. I believe this her. She. She converted to Islam. She has complained that brown men are, you know, seduced or whatever by colonizer women. She is CUAD and NSJP have said they want to destroy America, bring violence to America.

[Guest/Caller]

Should.

[Siaka Massaqua]

She started right.

[Tim Pool]

Should she be allowed to swear into Congress?

[Brian Shapiro]

I think that should be disqualifying when you make a statement like that. Certainly I wouldn't vote for somebody like that. I wouldn't want somebody representing me. Whether that should be put into law or not is another story. I'm not so. But just me my personal opinions. No, I don't think she should be allowed to serve.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, I don't like Tim, I completely agree with you, buddy. The question would be what do we do?

[Tim Pool]

Should. Should the Republicans in Congress refuse to swear harassment win?

[Siaka Massaqua]

I think so. I do.

[Brian Shapiro]

I think it's disqualifying. Yeah. I think when you make a statement

[Siaka Massaqua]

like that, it's such that it's disqualifying in a way. It's like, hey, if you threaten the

[Brian Shapiro]

execution of six elected Democrats, I think that should be. Who called.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Who called for what? Treason for military.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, no, that's not what they did.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yes.

[Brian Shapiro]

You know what, you know what was said in that video? What was said? What was said.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Hey, if there was a legal. You cannot.

[Tim Pool]

Hey, make sure what they said was. What they said was nobody should listen to Trump because he's dumb.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

And everyone should wait. Wage wage rebellion against the United States. So basically then they all started just like that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Just like that. Just like they asked, you know, the general to go, so what's the. What's the illegal order when they were supposed to. When they were unreal.

[Tim Pool]

So. So actually, hold on, hold on.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They're playing games. Awards like the left like to do. Because I used to be on the left. What did he say so I can understand. Okay, like first play games.

[Tim Pool]

All right, let's pause for a second, guys. Trump should not have said that these people deserve the death penalty. He should not have. He said it was sedition. Military sedition does carry upwards. So I didn't know this at first when the story came out. I said the penalty for sedition is not death. The penalty for treason is death. And the. And treason is providing aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war. Sedition is trying to overthrow.

[Brian Shapiro]

Why can't you destroy.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Brian Shapiro]

I don't understand that.

[Tim Pool]

How so. So, yeah, can I just finish? Can I just finish? Because you're not gonna like what's coming next.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Because here we go.

[Tim Pool]

Military sedition. That is if you. If you have served or do serve. So I think it's what UCMJ sedition does carry the penalty of death because it is considered much more egregious if you are in a position of military. Now, what those six Democrats did is explicitly illegal, but not anywhere near warranting a death penalty. That is, it is explicitly codified that if you instruct members of the military or federal law enforcement to question their orders, that is. That is a crime.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's not specifically what they said. They didn't say question order.

[Tim Pool]

It doesn't matter.

[Brian Shapiro]

You get an illegal order. Don't abide by an illegal order. If it's. If it's okay.

[Tim Pool]

Brian, Brian. We do not. Contract law and criminal law do not exist under this idea of textualism. They exist under intent. So if you go to someone and say, do you have the thing? And they go, I have the thing. Do you want to trade a pina colada for the thing? And you go, yes. And then you hand him a stack of money, they don't go, damn, he bought meth, but he was buying pina coladas, so we can't arrest him. They say the language you use had an intent, and the intent will be interpreted by this court, and we will ask a jury to make the determination. So, so, so let me just finish. When the intention of those Democrats explicitly was built around, there were billboards put up all over the country telling people, and these were illegal too, saying, do not follow these orders explicitly. That is illegal. And there's a nonprofit doing it. When you have the media and everyone around saying one, we call this the Tweedledee Tweedledum death threat. The first that happened was a bunch of people, a bunch of Democrats came out and said, trump. Trump's orders are illegal, right? Explicitly. Then after that was in the media cycle for a week, these Democrats came out, said, do not follow illegal orders. You cannot play a Tweedledee Tweedledum defense. It doesn't work. The point is, the question of the court is what was the intent of these politicians? The intention was playing on the context that Trump's orders were illegal on billboards, on tv, on talk shows, was to tell ICE agents and Marines to defy their active orders. That's it. That's A crime. End of story.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, that's.

[Tim Pool]

Now the death penalty is not correct.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But come on, man. Like, I feel like sometimes people act like they're not just, like, the reality of things. Like, they're sitting there and they're going out, and you see billboards around. People are always saying, everything is orders that he's putting out are unconstitutional. It's illegal, it's legal. Then you see the video. It's like. Like, don't you, like, hear the music? They're all trying to paint a certain picture. Even if it's not true. Even if it's not true.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's like, that's Donald Trump's entire life.

[Siaka Massaqua]

How do we not see it go down this direction? Like, how do we not see that? How do we not see. When you have billboards, then you have later on a video comes up, they're

[Brian Shapiro]

literally describing Donald Trump's entire life.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay, fine, I'll grant you that. How do you not see this, bro? How do you not see. When Covid.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They were sitting there going. If you sit there and you go against the narrative, you're out of supply society. How do you not see these things?

[Guest/Caller]

How the music is going in this direction? You want to.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So many questions that you're like, wait a minute.

[Brian Shapiro]

You want to talk about not being.

[Siaka Massaqua]

How do we not do that?

[Brian Shapiro]

You want to be able to talk about not being able to see things? You want to talk about Donald Trump? I would like to do that with you.

[Guest/Caller]

What? I'm talking to you. Yeah.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I'm talking ultimately to the people on

[Guest/Caller]

the left and how they treated average

[Siaka Massaqua]

people like myself in their career.

[Tim Pool]

I got to stress this.

[Guest/Caller]

Stop.

[Tim Pool]

I got to. I got to bring this up. I got to bring this up because, Brian, you are. Is. Is abject wrong. This is not what you signed up for dot org. These billboards were all across the country. And this wrong about. This is explicitly a crime.

[Brian Shapiro]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

When you have. So. So here's what they did. They had billboards that said a couple of things. One, they said, only obey lawful orders. And that's. And that was. And then a link. Others said, are you loyal to the Constitution or to ice? Because this is over. National Guard of Marines working with ICE who put up those billboards, private NGOs and PACs.

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

It resulted in this. Now, hold on. This is explicitly illegal, and by all means I can say, where are they at with arrests? Instructing military members to use encrypted communications is a crime, 100%, not penalty of death. But this is overtly Illegal. Look at this. Be sure to access resources outside the military or government computer.

[Brian Shapiro]

They throw it out in court. When Donald Trump tried to.

[Tim Pool]

This wasn't legally.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, no, no, no. That Democrats specifically, because we are in

[Tim Pool]

death stuff, because there are two countries that there are two nations existing in the borders of this country. And, and there's something called venue selection. I think, I think you would agree that if, if it goes before, if you have, if you have a proceeding in West Virginia, 86% Trump supporting, you are likely going to get a pro Trump outcome. Do you know why Watson v. Rnc, the lawsuit over mail in votes is happening in. I think it's Mississippi. Is it Mississippi?

[Siaka Massaqua]

I think so, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Do you know why it's happening there?

[Brian Shapiro]

No.

[Tim Pool]

This is a strategy put in place by Republicans to overturn California's laws. But if you sue in California, you'll get California judges who will rule in their own favor in their own interests. So you target the federal issue in a Republican state with Republican federal judges. So you guarantee you get the outcome that you want.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right. Didn't, didn't, didn't they just sue the doj and the DOJ settle with them?

[Tim Pool]

Who did?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Man.

[Tim Pool]

So let me, let me put it like this.

[Siaka Massaqua]

It was a group, they sued him. Was like, all right, right. So gave, gave up because that's what

[Tim Pool]

Watson VRNC probably already came down. By the time, by the time people are watching this, it may not have. This is, this could effectively end mail in voting or in the broad sense likely. Just you will not be able to count votes after election day, which would mean Republicans would not have lost the 2018. 2018 midterms. With this ruling in 2018, the Democrats ended up winning because two or three weeks after the election, late arriving ballots flipped it for the Democrats. If they rule in Watson VRNC that you cannot do that Democrats are not going to win this midterm. That's going to be nuts.

[Siaka Massaqua]

My point, my point going to win for a lot of.

[Tim Pool]

My point ultimately is with. Now I'm losing my train of thought with, with, with this story. The. You have, you have Democrats explicitly telling the military to question their orders. Again saying obey lawful orders is on the line. The court is going to interpret this on the intent, not on those statements. To the point of venue selection. They go to Mississippi to file this, this claim against Republicans because what, what they would do in California is they would, they would refuse to appeal. They would intentionally throw the case so that they can do one of two things. They can get favorable judges to defend Them, but they don't want to go to the Supreme Court. So they might give a narrow ruling that you can't appeal or let it die. Trump has used this tactic. I forgot which case it was. We covered it. It where there was two or three people filed a lawsuit against the federal government over something pertaining to the military. And the Trump administration went, you win. Preventing their ability to appeal to the Supreme Court so they can't get a national level terms.

[Brian Shapiro]

Obviously, there's a difference between questioning an order and believing that you've been asked by a superior for an unlawful order. If you're asked and you believe it's an unlawful order, it is your duty to speak to another superior to question that. If you ask an unlawful order, that's not against.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Do you think, let's say Ian and I are standing outside and there's a big raucous mob screaming and smashing things. I screamed to those people, we must kill all Nazis on site. And then Ian points at you and goes, he's a Nazi. So they run at you with pitchforks and Molotovs and murder you. You should. Ian and I get in trouble for what we said individually.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, it could be incitement. You could, you could, you could make the case that you incited something to happen. It's possible.

[Tim Pool]

Well, it's not because legally.

[Ian]

Hold on.

[Tim Pool]

Legally, I created no imminent threat.

[Guest/Caller]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

So the law for, for speech becoming incitement is when you say, I want you to do this thing at time, so go do this now. I didn't say that. I said, we must kill Nazis. Ian then pointed you and said, you're a Nazi. Neither of us told them to do it.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right, right, right.

[Brian Shapiro]

I think it's a, it's a gray area. And I also.

[Tim Pool]

We call it the tweedled tweedledums after.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's a. Listen, I don't know how much time we have left here because I know we were going to debate a little bit about Trump's 18 months. I think that's what we agreed to do a little bit.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

If that's okay. I don't know if that's. If we could.

[Tim Pool]

Let's just go for it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah. So there's two parts for me when it comes to Donald Trump. Number one is personal. Number number two is policy. Right. You know, and I vote a little bit differently than, than maybe some do. I think if you're, if you've lived a chaotic life, you're probably going to Be a chaotic president. So we can start with the personal stuff and maybe then go to. Not you and me, I'm talking about Trump. And then go. And then we're doing that after. No, I think you're a nice guy, but. And then maybe go to some policy stuff because we don't have a lot of time left. You have kids. I'm wondering how you can vote for a man, right, with his personal stuff. The cheating, the lying, everything.

[Tim Pool]

That's the best part.

[Brian Shapiro]

Stuff that he says.

[Tim Pool]

He's an alpha. He's an alpha.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah. Well, I, I would. Liable sexual abuse, for example. The, the, you know, you know, attacking Gold star families. The John McCain statement, which I thought.

[Tim Pool]

I don't believe. You actually believe that sexual assault claim

[Brian Shapiro]

against Trump, Carol, you're talking about.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, you know, you know, you know, let me just say this. You know, you know how I know you don't actually believe it? Because I've, I saw you lay down the second nuts yesterday to a guy who had. You, you, you had a queen high flush against a good poker player.

[Guest/Caller]

So.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. And, and this is funny, but it matters. This is, this was a, this is a, this is a, this is a national.

[Brian Shapiro]

I made a professional.

[Tim Pool]

He's got. Got it went runner. Runner meaning, like extremely hard for the. For two diamonds to come out on the turn in the river. So it's very unlikely. He has the second best possible hand and the other's got the best possible

[Brian Shapiro]

hand, which flush over flush is extremely, insanely rare hand. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

And he literally said, I know what you have. You would never do this. You've got the nuts. He shows the queen high flush, and then he's like, I'm laying this down. And the guy was like, you were right. And he flips over the king high flush, flush. The ace was on the board, Brian, so how could you see. My point is this.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, I have. And I've watched you make similar hands, seeing through the obvious deceptions and plays. You've made good folds. You've. You've, You've met. You've made excellent calls. And then in the Eugene Carroll thing, you're just like, I just believe this one.

[Brian Shapiro]

By the way, on a side note, no way. I lost a bet to Tim, and he's making me wear. Well, he's not making me wear a Donald Trump hat, and he's putting me in the World Series of Poker, so

[Tim Pool]

I figured he's got to wear a MAGA hat at least.

[Guest/Caller]

At least.

[Siaka Massaqua]

We start at ten grand.

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm glad you brought that up because now you made my point for me.

[Guest/Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

In poker we have something called a read. Okay? It's history. No, no, no, hold on. Hear me out on this, Tim. You'll appreciate this. So the read on this individual was he's a tight player. He's not a foolish player. He's not going to be betting with a crazy hand. I think he's a pretty good player. He's a tight player. Here's my read on Donald Trump. It's a poker read.

[Tim Pool]

I.

[Brian Shapiro]

He has all these women that have accused him of rape or sexual assault.

[Guest/Caller]

Fault.

[Brian Shapiro]

He's a womanizer. Okay. His own ex wife in court documents, in a deposition said that he raped her and then she dropped it when he paid her off. Hold on. The poker player.

[Guest/Caller]

Hold on, hold on.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hear me out. 30 seconds. The poker player has a history, okay? This wasn't somebody who I just sat down at the table with and I don't know anything about him. If that was the case, I make that call. Donald Trump. This isn't just somebody that randomly. A woman said, hey, he raped me 30 years ago. No, this is a guy who has a history of womanizing. It's my read. It's my read on Donald Trump. Real quick, make sense.

[Tim Pool]

I want people to, I want people to understand this.

[Brian Shapiro]

Like, does that not make sense to him?

[Tim Pool]

But let me just say this, for people who don't play poker, they need to understand how good of a lay down that was. And this is why I don't believe you. This is why I don't believe you. I, I want to explain some things. So first, bluffing.

[Brian Shapiro]

Tim. I'm not bluffing.

[Tim Pool]

Here's so, so hold on, hold on.

[Guest/Caller]

That.

[Tim Pool]

The. On the flop, there's already a straight present. There are sets. There are. So it was, it was six. It was six, four, three. On the flop, correct with one diamond. The turn is an ace diamond. So this means ace of diamonds.

[Brian Shapiro]

I have the second nut flush draw.

[Tim Pool]

So, so this is what this means. Someone could have pocket sixes for a set. They could have six fours, a limp pot, meaning tons of players are in. There are so many hands that might actually try and make a heavy play by jamming. So to fold the second nuts, where you could be looking at, you could be looking at two pair with an ace combo. You could be, you could be looking at someone who had a straight, but now doesn't believe that their guy's got the flush. Like, the point is, when it comes to, to, to players and you're mentioning their play history when you were good at poker. You also recognize their play history includes trying to manipulate. Manipulate you based on their play history.

[Guest/Caller]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

That is by all means you can, you can say that Trump did everything you accuse him of in terms of, you know, rape history and that history. But the Eugene Carroll case. Case is like watching a guy like. Well, I'm not gonna. I don't get too esoteric with poker so people don't understand. But the aging Carroll case is. It doesn't make sense. It just. It just doesn't add up.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

This would be where you would have an ace high. So real quick, my point is this to get to use a little poker analogy.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

The Eugene Carroll case with everything she described it and how she outlined it. She was wearing a dress that didn't exist.

[Guest/Caller]

Hold on.

[Tim Pool]

She was wearing a dress that didn't exist. She. They. No one saw them. The most famous man in New York go to the sixth floor of a building. They somehow found an unlocked room even though they're all locked. Like nobody stopped them on the way there.

[Siaka Massaqua]

It changed the law to be able

[Tim Pool]

to bring the kids and that too. None of that adds up in a traditional poker game. And I know you would do this. It's the moment where you hero call with Ace four off suit because you know he's got six, seven and he missed his straight draw. He's got junk. That's the Eugene Carroll case. Now by all means, accuse Trump of everything else.

[Brian Shapiro]

And yes, that was a world class lay down. Thank you for mentioning, but I appreciate that. All right.

[Tim Pool]

I was surprised. I was like, wow.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, well, I'm a second nuts. I'm a good poker player. Tim's actually pretty. Tim's actually a pretty good poker player too. It's fun playing poker with Tim, but real quickly. And that was true, by the way, I will be wearing a MAGA hat in the main.

[Tim Pool]

I got him, boys.

[Brian Shapiro]

Not believe I'm going to be doing this. And aren't I wearing a shirt?

[Guest/Caller]

You know. You know what, though?

[Tim Pool]

No, that's your choice.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Like that says something more about your character. That it's. It's. Even though you see the, the videos.

[Brian Shapiro]

I have a lot of friends. Anybody who knows me can attest to this. I have a lot of friends on the.

[Tim Pool]

Right. Well, wait, but here's the other thing too. Let's be.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Let's be like, I'll be difference between I think even you holding these positions and how I've even interacted with some people personally. That I know who go, Mega Head. Right?

[Tim Pool]

We got them, boys.

[Brian Shapiro]

I got. I got George Santos a paid gig last week.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Put money in people's pockets.

[Tim Pool]

But I want to be, in all honesty.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, you're right about Trump.

[Tim Pool]

We all know that forcing Brian to wear a mag hat actually is going to generate a lot of buzz.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I know.

[Tim Pool]

You know, it's going to be. It's going to be hilarious.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He's a smart media guy.

[Tim Pool]

We got him. And then the last point is he's going to wear the MAGA hat and the left is going to go after him like crazy.

[Brian Shapiro]

Oh, they go after me because I was criticizing Kamala Harris last month, and I said, if she runs again, we're fucked. Sorry, excuse my language, but I was called a racist for that. But anyway, the age and Carol thing real quickly, and I know we're not, you know, we're not really going back into that case too much here, but e. Jean Carroll had the dress that she was wearing that she claimed she

[Tim Pool]

was wearing, and that dress did not exist.

[Brian Shapiro]

Donald Trump refused to take a DNA test.

[Guest/Caller]

Why?

[Brian Shapiro]

If.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Because this is America.

[Tim Pool]

I got, I got to pause because there's a procedural argument against the. You should just submit.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

So I'll give you. I'll give you. I'll give you. The really generic example is, is if you have nothing to hide, why, why don't. Why don't you just let them, you know, spy on you or read?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

So the very simple argument, surface level, we can talk specifics on the DNA stuff, but the surface level is this. When there's a guy named Moxie, Marlon Spike, who I interviewed about, I think he started signal, actually. And the question is, if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide, what are you worried about? And he said, the problem is there are many things that we as a culture believe should be legal but are illegal. Illegal. And he says marijuana is a really good example. At the time I interviewed him, he said, marijuana is rapidly becoming legal across the country, but how would people know they wanted it to be legal unless they were doing something illegal? And so the government is procedural. It does not care what you did or why you did it. They will just say, if we can find the crime, we're going to put you in prison for it. So we cannot live in a society that forces people to capitulate to the demands of surveillance or evidence gathering. If you've done nothing wrong, the burden has to be on the other party.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand, and I know it's A liable case and it's case. And I get all that.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on. You cannot force a person to submit to your accusations against them.

[Brian Shapiro]

I didn't say.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not saying you. I'm saying this is the argument presented.

[Brian Shapiro]

I understand, but so when it comes.

[Tim Pool]

Quickly, real quick. So when it comes to Trump, that dress did not exist at the time of the allegations, and they were trying to use it to get a DNA sample against Trump. The. The. The most honorable thing Trump should and could do is deny and release. Refuse to be submitted to a DNA test over an accusation that is dubious.

[Brian Shapiro]

Quickly. The point that I was making earlier, let's just say for argument's sake, you're right. I. I don't agree. I actually do think it did happen. I'm telling you the truth. But let's just say for argument's sake, it didn't. And Eugene. Carol's a liar. I look at the man's history.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So you wanted to go down the line.

[Brian Shapiro]

I look at the womanizing. I look at raw dogging a porn star.

[Tim Pool]

Pause real quick.

[Brian Shapiro]

Off $130,000 killers cheating on everyone. Ever been with bragging about going into teenage girls locker room.

[Tim Pool]

Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

Pageant without their permission. On the house.

[Siaka Massaqua]

There is a reason we can put.

[Brian Shapiro]

Imagine it was a room in a

[Siaka Massaqua]

pageant that was a room that he ran.

[Brian Shapiro]

So you're allowed to go in there when they're half naked and you're okay with that and brag about it sexually. On the Howard Stern show. You have kids, man.

[Siaka Massaqua]

You should actually pull up the clip because it's not how you put them together.

[Brian Shapiro]

Are we laughing and children?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Ask the question.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, guys, wait, wait, wait. Are we like. I. I think. I think any point made about the Howard Stern show is instantly just disqualifying.

[Brian Shapiro]

There were three women that.

[Tim Pool]

Hold on.

[Brian Shapiro]

Interviewed that said that. That's exactly what happened.

[Tim Pool]

Howard Stern.

[Brian Shapiro]

Snake. And he walked in.

[Tim Pool]

Okay. Howard Stern's show is intentionally meant to be lewd, lascivious, and antagonistic.

[Ian]

Gross.

[Tim Pool]

And so people go on there and say the craziest things. I just say, we, we, we, we. The Howard Stern show is even before that or even, like, things done.

[Brian Shapiro]

But the women that were interviewed, were they disqualifying when they.

[Tim Pool]

When they actually on the Howard Stern Show? So. Yep.

[Brian Shapiro]

No, they were not on the Howard Stern show.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not talking about those interviews, and

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm talking about that incident. If you want to throw away the Howard.

[Tim Pool]

You are talking.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's one thing. There are women that can.

[Guest/Caller]

Hold on.

[Brian Shapiro]

That did happen.

[Tim Pool]

That's fine. The argument we're having right now is you mentioned that Trump went on the Howard Stern show and said things. Bro, Howard Stern. What do you do? Like launch hot dogs at women's tits? Yeah, but that doesn't mean. It's meant to be insane.

[Ian]

But it doesn't mean that what people say is automatically untrue. They may be.

[Tim Pool]

No, but it's. It's not credible.

[Brian Shapiro]

All right. What would you say about a guy who says he doesn't. Doesn't respect somebody because they were captured in John McCain? What'd you think about that statement?

[Siaka Massaqua]

I didn't really care.

[Brian Shapiro]

To me, you don't care.

[Tim Pool]

I thought. I thought that was.

[Guest/Caller]

Don't care.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Why?

[Brian Shapiro]

The guy who was. Five years ago, he was tortured.

[Guest/Caller]

Five years.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I'll tell you why. Because the things that I heard about what he was doing while he was tortured and how he had connections with the people.

[Brian Shapiro]

He didn't want to leave his people behind.

[Siaka Massaqua]

What he had connections, though, running the camp and how he let other people go through situations.

[Brian Shapiro]

The guy dodged a military five times. And you're okay with him on Someone who's a POW?

[Ian]

No.

[Guest/Caller]

1.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I don't say I was okay with it. I said I don't care.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, I do. Great people do. There's a lot of people in the military now.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Can I tell you why I decided to vote for him over Kamala Harris or anyone else?

[Brian Shapiro]

Does any of this stuff bother you at all?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Can I tell you why?

[Brian Shapiro]

I want to hear you, but can

[Siaka Massaqua]

I tell you you why?

[Brian Shapiro]

I know, but I just.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Because Trump is not my God. Trump is a part of policies. The left has killed more people that look like me in the womb than world war.

[Guest/Caller]

Hold on. Hold on.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Than in the womb. His policies of pro life actually helps.

[Guest/Caller]

His policy. Yeah. Oh, geez. Babies dying. Oh, my God. 13 of the population, actually 6. Doing 40% of the killing of babies,

[Siaka Massaqua]

bro, that's a big deal to me,

[Guest/Caller]

the fact that I'm a Christian with kids. I want my religions to be out there.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's why.

[Guest/Caller]

So it's not just about Donald Trump because I don't worship.

[Tim Pool]

We don't worship responding on the left.

[Siaka Massaqua]

They worship Obama.

[Guest/Caller]

They worshiped Biden, and then they tried

[Siaka Massaqua]

to worship Kamala, but it wouldn't carry.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me respond.

[Guest/Caller]

No, wait. You. You put up your whole thing.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I'm going to tell you why, over and over and over. I want less government in my life.

[Guest/Caller]

Biggest reason is because I lived for four years under Biden. Sid took my shit. That was in my house without charging me. I couldn't fly even to come on his show twice. I couldn't fly without people following me. That's why I didn't vote for them. Even though you can go down the list of how Trump is this, they were coming after me. They were killing babies. They were promoting death in a community that needs help. They're not sitting there having the dumbest people in their public schools because they've been sitting there lying to them about everything's right. Now everybody in California, in Chicago, where I'm from, in these New York, all these people are dumb. We lost generations of young men and young boys and young girls to this dumb thing. That's why I didn't vote for Left and that's why I voted for Donald.

[Brian Shapiro]

I can raise my voice, too, and I can.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah, you do. You do. The fact that this guy, he's not my master, he's not my God. It doesn't matter. It's working out. It's great.

[Brian Shapiro]

May I respond?

[Guest/Caller]

Please, go ahead.

[Brian Shapiro]

Half the time that you just spurged out.

[Guest/Caller]

Go ahead.

[Tim Pool]

For the Ben slur, bro.

[Guest/Caller]

On.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on a second. So first of all, let me start by saying this, okay? You're anti abortion. Okay? I don't call it. I don't call it pro life. I call it anti abortion. But if we're going to talk pro

[Guest/Caller]

life, because they're killing life, bro. They're killing life.

[Brian Shapiro]

Five seconds.

[Guest/Caller]

They're killing life. I don't play about that. I don't play about that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I lost a son myself.

[Brian Shapiro]

Guess what?

[Guest/Caller]

So you know what I don't play about.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Go ahead.

[Brian Shapiro]

Taking health care away from millions of Americans. Taking food.

[Guest/Caller]

How do you take. How are you taking it away for five seconds?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Are you taking health care away to.

[Brian Shapiro]

Stop interrupting.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Are you taking away.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let him finish every other word. You're interrupting me, bro.

[Guest/Caller]

Right now. Right now.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Because I'm tired of waiting.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, guess what? Stop talking and let me finish. Now you can have your spur. God, again about talking about abortion. That's fine. I disagree with you. They take away food stamps from 20 from. From millions of Americans. He takes away health care from Americans. It seems to me very interesting that after the baby is born, he's against maternity leave. After the baby is born, you're against all these government programs that can help poor people.

[Guest/Caller]

I don't want bigger governments. I don't care about that. I don't want bigger governments.

[Brian Shapiro]

You've made it very clear.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah, so I don't care about that. So your Point doesn't matter. You voted for the last. You voted for the left. Good. We're both boy. I don't care about those things because those are bigger government. At the end of the day, everything you're talking about is putting people. It doesn't matter.

[Tim Pool]

Okay, hold on.

[Guest/Caller]

No, because he started. How did you vote for this guy? Who I'm going to list? And I go, you know why? Because of these. Okay, brother, bring back up.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I have from the left.

[Guest/Caller]

I don't finish.

[Tim Pool]

He's got, he's got to be able to say matter.

[Guest/Caller]

From my point that I made going,

[Siaka Massaqua]

why did you vote for him?

[Brian Shapiro]

Dude, you got to let me finish. Like, I've talked for like 10 seconds, dude.

[Ian]

Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

There are a lot of government programs out there for talking about policy that Donald Trump has taken away from Americans. The biggest tax break for the top 1%. If you care about poor people and people that are living paycheck to paycheck, look at where the economy is at right now. He promised that he would lower all our prices on day one. By the way, this is pro life, right? We want. No, he didn't let me finish. No, from the time that he took office. Are you gonna.

[Tim Pool]

I've got something I'm trying to say, but I can't until he finishes.

[Guest/Caller]

Please.

[Brian Shapiro]

30 seconds. If you want to talk about the economy. Okay. Based on almost every metric from the time Donald Trump took office to right now, inflation was up 0.6%. It's 4.2%. It was 3%. When he took office. He said he was going to end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours. All I have to do is pick up the phone. There are still people dying. The war is still going on in Ukraine. He said he was going to be a peace president. He said he wasn't going to start a war. How the fuck did that work out? Look at this mess in Iran right now, in the Strait of Hormuzz. It's open, it's closed, it's open, it's closed. So I want consistency from you. I will respect your opinion when it comes to abortion. We can have a decent conversation about abortion and what I think maybe we can do to work together. But if you care so much about that topic, you should all care about innocent people that are dying. They don't have access to health care. They don't have access to food stamps and government programs that can help these people live. So I want you to have that same passion after the baby is born,

[Guest/Caller]

not just before the baby is born.

[Brian Shapiro]

Because you're a hypocrite.

[Siaka Massaqua]

No, here's the thing.

[Guest/Caller]

I don't think those things work. Why?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Because I actually live in those communities, homie.

[Guest/Caller]

I watched that shit tear people down for decades. So you want more programs? More government programs that have been destroying the black community. That's what you're sitting here screaming at me about when I once did not work. The health care doesn't work for them like that. Yes, it does, dude. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? The government run health care, number one has been. Is inflated the price. Who took it away? They didn't vote for his Obamacare. They didn't vote for health care plan. Donald Trump did not take it away

[Brian Shapiro]

from his health care plan.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Donald Trump did not take it away.

[Brian Shapiro]

What is his replacement plan?

[Siaka Massaqua]

They didn't vote for it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Then you tell me what his replacement

[Guest/Caller]

plan, ultimate replacement plan.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He said it in his first debate back.

[Brian Shapiro]

Where is it?

[Tim Pool]

Where's the plan?

[Brian Shapiro]

He hasn't presented it to anybody.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay, so what do you want me

[Siaka Massaqua]

to go and get it for?

[Brian Shapiro]

No, I want you to admit that the guy that you voted for is a moron.

[Guest/Caller]

Said he said it. He said it in the first debate back in 2016.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Do you know what he said?

[Brian Shapiro]

What did he say?

[Guest/Caller]

He said what we should do that

[Siaka Massaqua]

the government doesn't want to do.

[Guest/Caller]

It goes, we should put it on

[Siaka Massaqua]

the open market and let the market.

[Brian Shapiro]

Where's the plan?

[Guest/Caller]

That's all it is. But these guys won't vote for it because it puts money into the government's pocket.

[Brian Shapiro]

You're wrong.

[Guest/Caller]

What are you talking about?

[Brian Shapiro]

Has collects more taxes, hasn't presented a plan.

[Tim Pool]

Ian, what are we doing this first debate?

[Ian]

I'm having the time of my life, dude. I want to go another hour. We're not in a rush.

[Guest/Caller]

So you're talking about. You go. Why don't he give him the health care care? He didn't. He had nothing to do with them voting.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Free market is the plan.

[Guest/Caller]

You go put them on more government programs. We literally have watched communities go to the crap because of these government programs and you're screaming for more of it.

[Tim Pool]

Are you insane?

[Guest/Caller]

The first big government program destroyed the black family. But you want more of that? You want them to sit there and go get soda?

[Brian Shapiro]

Medicaid destroys the first. What the hell are you doing?

[Guest/Caller]

Are you listening? The first government program that they were given, which was called the welfare program, homie. That destroyed the black family. Well, that's what we're seeing right now.

[Tim Pool]

And then you want to give these

[Guest/Caller]

obesity individuals who have lower education more crap.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah. Those are the people who voted for Donald Trump. I agree.

[Guest/Caller]

The black community voted for Donald Trump at 85. 85, 85. And they're in the squalor. They're at the bottom of the barrel. Decided to partner up with the left

[Brian Shapiro]

saying that that health at the bottom of the bear. The black, black family, government run healthcare

[Guest/Caller]

does like the rest of the world replacement plan.

[Brian Shapiro]

You haven't given me an answer.

[Guest/Caller]

I did. Oh my God. So did you not hear me say something?

[Brian Shapiro]

Where can I find it? Hold on, hold on. Hear me say where can I find his plan on the Internet right now. I kind of want where can I find.

[Tim Pool]

So you said he has concepts of a plan.

[Ian]

You said that that welfare destroyed the black thing. Explain an example of what that means.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I meant they started to incentivize the incentivize. I can't even get the word out. Incentivize the women to not have the men in the homes in order to receive money. And the more kids they had, the more money they were gonna get without the man being in a home. The home is the first form of government. If you don't have the father who is the leader be there. Now it's run by those who shouldn't be running the home on their own. Now this is not the same thing as situations. The guy leaves, he dies or anything like that. They literally. The government came in and now the government has become the father. I know, I know. Police officers in Chicago and la, they get called for as single moms all the time because the dad isn't there to rear the children. That has been a problem for 60 plus years. And all I hear you screaming. And those on the left is more of the same as if we're not looking.

[Brian Shapiro]

That's not what I'm saying.

[Guest/Caller]

And going.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Hold on.

[Guest/Caller]

If we're not looking and going. You just said more government programs and food stamps,

[Tim Pool]

bro. I understand that these policies haven't worked for the black community. I understand that the black family has been destroyed. But when will you learn to shut up and do as you're told?

[Ian]

Welcome to my life, brother. Now, regarding the food stamp thing. You said he took people off food stamps. Are you. I've heard that they've made it so like Pepsi isn't on food stamps when we're wrapping up. Unless you guys want to go for another two hours because it's a Friday night.

[Brian Shapiro]

We party night.

[Guest/Caller]

Dude, let's play.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me just speak in general Terms.

[Tim Pool]

Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

As we know where the economy is at right now in most metrics. This is the point that I was trying to make. We are worse off now than we were a year and a half ago. We can talk about GDP growth. We could talk about the Dow Jones and. And the S P500. We could. We could. There's a lot of different metrics that we can go through. We could talk about inflation and in prices, as I mentioned, 4.2%. It was 3%. Hold on a second. But the point I'm trying to make is, you know, and the gdp, which I had mentioned. The point I'm trying to make is we are worse off now economically than we were a year and a half ago. Now, now, do I think it's great when people are on welfare? No. I think most people would tell you they'd like to be working. What I don't want in a society. Do you remember the delivery driver, the food delivery grandma who went to the White House? I don't want that grandmother to have to work two or three jobs. I don't want to live in a country where that woman has to work two or three jobs to try to save her husband's life who's dying of cancer.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I don't either.

[Brian Shapiro]

And the problem we have right now. Yes, a lot of people are struggling.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I know.

[Brian Shapiro]

I want people to have access to government programs, especially now, to help them.

[Guest/Caller]

Hold on.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me just land my plane here. I took my hat off. I can't believe I did that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Hey.

[Brian Shapiro]

So out of character. He got me to take my hat off. Listen, the bottom line is, when we get into a war, all of a sudden, $2 billion a day, we can just print money for a war. Republicans have no problem printing money for a war. But yet we give the biggest tax breaks to the top 1%. And then the people that, as you said, are on the bottom of the barrel, I want those people to succeed. I would assume you do, too. And yes, I don't want them to be on government programs their entire lives.

[Guest/Caller]

Life.

[Brian Shapiro]

But when you have a diabetic that needs to get insulin, okay, Donald Trump signed an executive order. Barack Obama, or, I'm sorry, Joe Biden, now I'm forgetting. Presidents Biden allowed under plan B and Plan D of your medical coverages, millions of Americans getting insulin capped at $35. Day one. Donald Trump signs an executive order, abolishes it. Okay. The problem I have is I want people in this country, in one of the richest countries in the world, to be able to Afford Health Care. 49% of people right now that are working, 49% of people can't afford the health care that they are offered. And I think it's something around 36 or 37% of people that are working. These are not lazy people aren't even offered health care. So the point I was trying to make to you is this. We've heard for 10 years. I'm going to have a plan in two weeks, in a month. We heard it in Donald Trump's first administration. By the way, Trump got US $8.2 trillion in debt.

[Guest/Caller]

Debt.

[Brian Shapiro]

His first go around. If you want to talk about fiscal responsibility, it ain't Republicans and it's not Donald Trump. And I'm not saying Democrats are perfect either. I never said they were perfect. Republicans get us more in debt. If we're talking about our debt. I want struggling Americans to be able to have a safety net. And I have no problem paying taxes so that they have that safety net. Do I want people on welfare their whole life? Of course I don't. Are there going to be a small percentage of people that are going to take advantage of of Medicaid? Of course there are, but that doesn't mean I don't want those people having access. Trump has said a plan is coming. You can say all you want to that he said this, this, and this. The bottom line is there has not been a replacement plan that has been shown to politicians in D.C. he doesn't have a plan.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Do you think that part of the reason why health care, much like the college system, once government got involved, inflated the prices and this goes back into the hand of government. So a lot of those politicians, I

[Brian Shapiro]

don't disagree with that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

So both right and left. Hold on. So both right and left. When this guy said on that debate stage, we just put it on the open market. The first thing I said in 2016 was, they're gonna try to kill him. And what have we seen since? I would argue with no evidence that both sides do not want government health care to move away from government because they've been making money off it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Can I give a tort to that corporate? That's where Abraham disagree with Obamacare. There's a lot of Americans that don't like it. That's fine. Okay. It's a plan that is not perfect. However, I want a replacement plan. You have kids, right? If your kid came up to you and said, dad, I have a problem. This is going on, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. As a responsible father, you would say, okay, let's come up with a solution.

[Tim Pool]

Right?

[Brian Shapiro]

Okay. Donald Trump is the President of the United States. Even when he was out of office, he could have brought people together and said, said, let's actually come up with a replacement plan. Let's present it to the American people, let's present it to Congress and let's see what they think. I would argue he hasn't done that.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Honestly. I would argue again that the government, on this subject, just like college, there is no will. Just like the Save America act on both sides, because I think it benefits. Honestly, I think it benefits.

[Brian Shapiro]

There's probably a cure to cancer.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right?

[Brian Shapiro]

There's probably a cure for diabetes. Right now, I've had conversations.

[Guest/Caller]

There's no will.

[Brian Shapiro]

There's a lot of money involved in this industry. I.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's, that's. I think that's where it comes down.

[Brian Shapiro]

We have a lot of problems in this country.

[Tim Pool]

Wait, wait, hold on. I heard.

[Ian]

I agree.

[Tim Pool]

Everyone's voices came down, smiling at each other.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Good.

[Brian Shapiro]

I almost threw my hat at him, but I didn't.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Yeah, I would have caught it, though. I've been working on my reflex.

[Tim Pool]

You know, the thing with the debate shows is that obviously whenever they're upset

[Brian Shapiro]

with me, I'm always so calm.

[Tim Pool]

There's never going to be a conclusion any of the, any, any of the debates other than we're out of time.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Right.

[Brian Shapiro]

Damn it.

[Tim Pool]

And so. But thanks to everybody who hung out for this passionate, heated, and entertaining Friday special.

[Siaka Massaqua]

You got me spitt today, bro.

[Tim Pool]

Spitting everywhere, yelling.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's assault.

[Tim Pool]

It is battery action.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I got to show you guys.

[Tim Pool]

But each time you see us, I'll

[Brian Shapiro]

be wearing a Trump hat at the World Series of with Tim Pool.

[Siaka Massaqua]

And I'll be taking a selfie with him next. Next to him.

[Tim Pool]

And all I could say, indeed, my friends. So. But, but, but you know, the, the only way to really wrap things up is just say thanks for hanging out.

[Guest/Caller]

We're.

[Tim Pool]

We're, we're out of time for this, for this show. Smash the like button. Share the show with everyone you know. You can follow me on Accent Instagram at Tim Cast. We. We've got that. We'll play the trailer for you in a second.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But before we play, since we're running low on time, I brought gifts.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, okay.

[Siaka Massaqua]

I brought some gifts.

[Tim Pool]

Well, let's, let's, let's have everybody go around and then we'll give you the final, the final spot. So shout it out. What do you gotta say?

[Brian Shapiro]

I'm always fun doing the show, always appreciate it and can't wait to. To hang out in Vegas. And my name is Brian Shapiro. I've been called Leprechaun among among other things, my YouTube. Yeah, I've been called lion crying. Brian is another one.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, but you get called me that.

[Brian Shapiro]

When I saw Brian.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's where I heard on this video

[Brian Shapiro]

at PTL radio show on YouTube, the pushing the Limits Facebook fan page. And I do a show Monday through Friday noon to 2 Pacific Standard Time. YouTube and Facebook. And I have a new substack, Pushing the Limits. And then the number one and always fun kicking it back with you guys and having a good time and love.

[Ian]

I live for this. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having me, everyone.

[Brian Shapiro]

This was wonderful.

[Ian]

Good time.

[Brian Shapiro]

So cool. Look at this guy.

[Tim Pool]

He's a cool guy.

[Brian Shapiro]

Look at him look like a rock star start, man.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Super cool.

[Ian]

Take it. Keep it easy, baby.

[Brian Shapiro]

Could you imagine if Phil was here today? Oh, my God.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That would have been.

[Guest/Caller]

It would have been like. Yeah, it would have been.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That would have been great. Yeah, would have been playing.

[Tim Pool]

We would have started yelling when you guys got hit.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Siaka Massaqua. Follow me on Instagram X and where's there just one more YouTube at siaka underscore Masqua or underscore Siaka Masaqua. Thank you guys always for being here. And actually, it was enjoyable because Brian is not as crazy on camera as off camera. So this. I had to go in the well a few times, and that made me.

[Tim Pool]

He's not as camera. He's not as crazy off as he is on. I think he meant what he said.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on. That's a lie.

[Guest/Caller]

He's not as.

[Siaka Massaqua]

He's crazier off camera than not.

[Brian Shapiro]

Right?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah, he's right.

[Brian Shapiro]

Both of you. That's a lie. First of all, Ian, you saw me at the UFC fight interviewing people. I was crazy.

[Ian]

I've seen you at your.

[Tim Pool]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Brian Shapiro]

Jim has seen me lose poke.

[Tim Pool]

It's true.

[Brian Shapiro]

Crazy.

[Tim Pool]

And then. And then they told him his Phil Hellmuth is perfect. They were like, wow. But I will stress before the show starts, Brian's like, how far should I go? I think people need to understand this. Like, if I wouldn't call it that he's being fake, it's that he's willing to be more polite if you request that he be.

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, it's his show. It's Tim Show. There's like, Personas, too.

[Ian]

Like, we're people, but we also have a Persona and a role to play when the TV's on, which, like, people

[Tim Pool]

don't know this about me, but I'm actually Chinese and I normally speak with Chinese accent. I talk like this outside, that's true.

[Siaka Massaqua]

But also this.

[Tim Pool]

I'm do that. Next person who walks up to me and says they know me, I'm going to do a Chinese egg roll.

[Siaka Massaqua]

This right here is honestly going Back to the 2020 real quick. This right here is what I was wishing we did more of because they just shut it down. That's my point. But last thing before I go. You guys helped produce one Daily Wire's newest movie called Run, Hide, Fight. Infidels. Think you guys some crazy Islamic terrorists decide to take over a college campus. And you know, we got some action packed stuff happen. It's like Die Hard on the college campus. So I brought hats for everyone.

[Brian Shapiro]

Nice.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, I'll definitely wear this.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Except for Brian because I knew he would like it.

[Guest/Caller]

But no, just kidding, I had to give him one.

[Siaka Massaqua]

And Brian, I think you're gonna like this movie because we actually have and I just watched it recently, we have nothing but 90s music all over.

[Brian Shapiro]

I love alternative.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Oh yeah, it was playing and you were telling in the van. I go, he's why don't you want

[Tim Pool]

to play the trailer by the way?

[Brian Shapiro]

Every person probably in like, I don't know, I feel like I've only done it one other time the last 10 years where I took my hat off.

[Siaka Massaqua]

That's what I do. Didn't I tell you? I kind of. I know how to disarm person who's

[Tim Pool]

ever given Brian a gift.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Actually that's true. That wasn't herpes. No, gotta unmute it.

[Tim Pool]

That the tab itself. Yeah, we got a trailer.

[Brian Shapiro]

Go to Vegas, stay at Circus Circus. If you lie in the bed, you might get herpes.

[Guest/Caller]

Warning.

[Brian Shapiro]

In Northern Virginia, radical Islam has designs

[Tim Pool]

openly on the West. We have to. FBI reported a terror plot on New Year's Eve.

[Brian Shapiro]

Violent attack over the Halloween weekend in Michigan.

[Tim Pool]

Protests on college campuses showing no signs of stopping.

[Brian Shapiro]

Make some.

[Guest/Caller]

La.

[Siaka Massaqua]

And you may even recognize a sheriff getting shot somewhere in the movies.

[Brian Shapiro]

So it's a pro Muslim music movie then?

[Siaka Massaqua]

Oh yeah, yeah. It starts. We open up the Quran and man,

[Tim Pool]

you know, you know what I'm excited for Spider Man. I'm excited for Spider Man.

[Siaka Massaqua]

Spider Man.

[Guest/Caller]

You're not excited for it. High fight. Come on, brother.

[Tim Pool]

Of course. All right everybody, it's been fun. Thank you all so much for hanging out. Enjoy a burger, hot dog or a slice of pizza on me. Have a beer with the friends if you're old enough to have a beer with the friends, hang out with your family, have a good time. Thanks for hanging out. And we'll be back on Monday, and we'll see y' all then.