Trump LOSES IT Learning Iran Leader IS GAY IRL w/ Bryan Callen & Liv Boeree

Summary

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Timcast IRL – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Trump LOSES IT Learning Iran Leader IS GAY IRL w/ Bryan Callen & Liv Boeree
Date: March 17, 2026
Host: Tim Pool (Timcast Media)
Guests: Bryan Callen, Liv Boeree, Phil Labonte, Ian Crossland

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Episode Overview

This episode of Timcast IRL brings together comic Bryan Callen, science and risk communicator Liv Boeree, musician Phil Labonte, and the regular panel to dissect some of the most viral and contentious news of the week—specifically, rumors about Iran’s new Supreme Leader’s sexuality, America’s ongoing actions in Iran, and the broader implications for global geopolitics, technology, and culture. The discussion combines timely global events with philosophical explorations into the future of AI, societal propaganda, collective identity, and the human condition.

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Main Themes & Key Discussion Points

1. Viral Rumor: Iran’s New Supreme Leader “Is Gay”

• Timestamps: [03:15]–[12:45], [52:05]–[53:08]
• The episode kicks off with viral Western claims that Iran’s supposed new Supreme Leader, Mujtaba Khamenei, is gay—an explosive allegation in Iran’s political and cultural climate.
• Tim suggests this rumor is a coordinated psychological operation (“psyop”) by Western agencies intending to undermine the new Iranian leader’s legitimacy within a deeply conservative society:

  “I really think this is a psyop meant to cause harm to the reputation of the new Supreme Leader of Iran before he actually starts running this country. Because, you know, you can’t be gay in Iran.” — Tim Pool [03:15]

• The panel finds the story juvenile—likening it to a “South Park” strategy—but agree it could still be effective propaganda in Iran’s society.
• Memorable moment: The group riffing on the concept of “gay face” and whether such an image-based attack could impact Iranian public perception.
• The hosts discuss the uncertainty over the leader’s fate: rumors range from him being dead to having fled for surgery; the official statement was only written, not in person.
• They also riff on how American officials (and Trump himself) may have reacted to the briefing:

  “I just imagine someone bust into the Oval Office and like, you’re not going to believe this—Khomeini’s gay.” — Phil Labonte [11:19]

• The group transitions into dark humor on the potential of deepfake sex tapes as next-level disinformation.

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2. Iran, US Intervention, and Geopolitical Calculation

• Timestamps: [12:45]–[26:10], [46:00]–[50:00]
• Analysis moves toward serious discussion of the Iranian regime, resistance among the population, and the current US strategy—especially under President Trump.
• The guests debate whether US action in Iran is justified and reflect on America’s history of “regime change” and the cynicism it has bred:

  “My feeling is that every time we go into a country all gung-ho, we tend to make this big mistake… Nobody thought that these two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would last 23 years.” — Brian Callen [18:54]

• They examine the West’s rationale for intervention, the strategic economic interests (notably, the petrodollar and oil supplies), and China’s stake—underscoring energy as a future geopolitical bottleneck:

  “The bottleneck is going to be energy production. China’s got nuclear power, Three Gorges Dam… The US really needs to do a lot to catch up.” — Phil Labonte [16:08]

• Discussion on how the US positions itself as world police to maintain cheap domestic commodities by enforcing the petrodollar system.
• The conversation also addresses the difficulty of exporting not only Western commerce but also “woke” cultural values—touching on US embassies’ displays of pride flags in deeply conservative countries.

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3. Protest, Propaganda, and Psychological Operations

• Timestamps: [24:39]–[29:10], [34:54]–[37:07]
• Liv Boeree shares personal insight from Persian diaspora friends, describing real joy among Iranians at regime changes, despite Western skepticism over video authenticity.
• The panel explores how both Iranian and American protest movements can be weaponized or misrepresented by rival governments in global information warfare.
• Tim raises the issue of cyber armies and the manipulation of Western social media by foreign actors, exacerbated by lacking internet verification; he predicts a future where mandatory IDs will be required to access online platforms:

  “Our social media is inundated with foreign actors with foreign political agendas to manipulate the people of the United States…” — Tim Pool [28:24]

• Some debate emerges over anonymity vs. accountability online, especially in the context of free speech and information warfare.

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4. The Petrodollar, Trade, and Global Hegemony

• Timestamps: [37:08]–[46:00]
• Deep dive on why the US enforces the petrodollar system and how global economy and American prosperity are linked to geopolitical muscle:

  “Gas prices and products remain cheap in the United States because we point guns at other countries and say, you will trade oil on the US dollar, or you will die." — Tim Pool [38:16]

• The nature of American hegemony, the difference between “freedom narrative” and practical enforcement, and the risk of global “vassalization” are all discussed.
• The hosts challenge the wisdom of installing Western-style culture in nations with very different traditions—using the example of unsuccessful US attempts to export progressive gender and sexual rights symbolism to Afghanistan and Iraq.

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5. China, AI, and the Coming Tech Cold War

• Timestamps: [15:02], [55:00]–[75:12]
• Explores why China is surging as an energy and manufacturing power, and why the “AI war” is as much about access to resources as to hardware and data.
• Memorable moment: Panel jokes about all Chinese oil being "gay" now, riffing on Tim’s earlier speculation [17:11].
• The US–China rivalry is increasingly technological. The US may be innovating new AI models and weaponizing advanced tech, but China’s disregard for IP laws and lack of ethical constraints gives it an aggressive edge.
• Liv and Tim debate whether the US government or the private sector truly leads in AI:

  “The main bottleneck in the AI industry… is talent. So all these talented engineers should be getting siphoned off to the government.” — Liv Boeree [70:20] “The government is more interested in geopolitics and less in the moon. Elon Musk wants Mars, the US wants to contain China.” — Tim Pool [72:36]

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6. Psychedelics, Human Nature, and the Philosophy of AI

• Timestamps: [89:34]–[111:43]
• As the conversation deepens, the hosts explore comparisons between human consciousness and machine intelligence, referencing both Eastern and Western spiritual traditions.
• Discussion becomes increasingly philosophical, tackling simulation theory, meditation, self-awareness, and the dilemmas of aligning AI values and motives with human well-being:

  “This is a training program for ethics for you. The AI die. And when you die, the progenitors will determine whether or not you developed a positive or negative ethics.” — Tim Pool [93:13]

• Bryan Callen introduces Buddhist perspectives on detachment and witnessing one's own consciousness, leading to a thoughtful exchange about the meaning of self, the pursuit of truth, and the limitations of human perception.
• They reference experiences with psychedelics and DMT, Jungian archetypes, and cultural universals in visions and myths—highlighting the complexity of aligning machine and human values.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Weaponizing Sexuality:
  “It’s just juvenile, South Park–esque political strategy: ‘We need to find a way to discredit the new Supreme Leader. We can call him gay.’” — Tim Pool [09:29]

• On Social Media Manipulation:
  “Many people… are being heavily influenced by foreign financing… we have foreign cyber armies that train people explicitly to run 50 accounts at once.” — Tim Pool [32:22]

• On American Hegemony:
  “Gas prices and products remain cheap in the United States because we point guns at other countries and say, you will trade oil on the US dollar, or you will die.” — Tim Pool [38:16]

• Liv on Popular Support for Trump’s Iran Offensive:
  “All the people I spoke to in the diaspora… were ecstatic about this. In the long run, we are not an Islamic country. We never were. We were colonized by this ideology.” — Liv Boeree [24:11]

• On AI and the Future of Work:
  “Imagine there’s an old man sitting in a field… his grandson says, ‘Granddad, what are all them [black cubes in the sky]?’ And he goes, ‘Oh yeah, that’s the machine.’… Humans are basically just a remnant of a long lost era.” — Tim Pool [116:54]

• On Self-Awareness:
  “So what I mean to go further is… who is the witness? Who is doing the watching?” — Bryan Callen [102:54]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Start | End | |-------------------------------------|-------------|-------------| | Opening (skip ads) | 03:15 | 06:28 | | Introductions | 06:28 | 07:44 | | Iran Leader Rumors & Trump Reaction | 07:44 | 12:45 | | Geopolitical Stakes (Iran, Cuba) | 12:45 | 26:10 | | Psyops, Propaganda, Diaspora Views | 24:39 | 29:10 | | The Petrodollar & US Hegemony | 37:08 | 46:00 | | On China, Oil, and AI | 15:02 | 75:12 | | Deep AI, Tech, and Data Centers | 59:35 | 75:12 | | AI Value Alignment/Philosophy | 89:34 | 111:43 | | Meditation & Self-Awareness | 102:54 | 111:43 | | Closing/Sign-offs | 128:03 | End |

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Conclusion

This episode typifies Timcast IRL’s style—mixing irreverent humor, hot-button news, and speculative philosophy. The viral “Iranian leader is gay” rumor is unpacked as an example of 21st-century psychological operations, while the panel offers a candid, sometimes bleak, and often witty take on the global balance of power, the West’s cultural influence, and the AI arms race. The discussion frequently pivots from geopolitics to deeper questions of human consciousness and meaning, making for a uniquely broad and thought-provoking roundtable.

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For listeners new to Timcast IRL, this episode is a microcosm of the show’s blend of political skepticism, cultural satire, and existential musing, offering valuable context for today's headlines and tomorrow’s world.

Transcript

[Tim Pool]

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[Liv Bary]

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[Brian Callan]

non verbal autistic child.

[Tim Pool]

The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis and we

[Brian Callan]

raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months.

[Tim Pool]

I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just

[Brian Callan]

like really being very clear about what

[Tim Pool]

we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe. So Iran's new Supreme Leader is gay. And apparently when Trump found out, he and the administration started busting out laughing. Apparently one senior administration official has been laughing about it for days. And I'll tell you what, I really think this is a psyop meant to cause harm to the reputation of the new Supreme Leader of Iran before he actually starts running this country. Because, you know, you can't be gay in Iran.

[Brian Callan]

Now.

[Tim Pool]

The truth is, the guy might be dead. No one actually knows. They've not seen him. There are reports that he was flown to Moscow for surgery. He may have been maimed or in a coma. His leg may have gotten blown off. Apparently he was in the building when they bombed it. That killed the. The Ali Khamenei, the Supreme Leader, but was going outside of the Garden and may have survived. We don't know for sure. The one thing we can say is he didn't show up to his own coronation, he wasn't there. And the only statement he's released is written. So many people think he's actually dead without confirmation. I guess the West's play is just to call him gay so that the people of Iran are like, I don't wanna follow that guy. Which that's honestly kind of clever strategy.

[Brian Callan]

It's kinda lame, but it's great. So what, he's gay? At least. At least our leader isn't gay.

[Tim Pool]

I think it might work. It's Iran, though, so that's apparently a big story. And then I actually think substantially more interesting is that Cuba's power is completely out, their grid has failed totally, and the US is about to come in and, quote, unquote, save them. So it looks like Cuba is going to be falling back into the Western fold. If this plays out, sanctions will likely be lifted and trade will be normalized. Which, all in all, I think is actually a good thing coming off of what happened in Venezuela. And then, of course, the escalation of the war in Iran. And then Megyn Kelly upset that McLevin has a micro penis and they're fighting about it. I'm not even kidding. Welcome to whatever, I don't know, the world of clicks. Yeah, he gets it. Before we get started, my friends, we Got a great sponsor for you. It is Beam Dream. Make sure you guys head over to shop B-E-A-M.com timpool and pick up your nighttime blend to support better sleep. I absolutely love Beam Dream. I drink it every single night. It is a delicious cup of hot cocoa you drink before bed that helps you sleep. It's got magnesium, reishi, melatonin, L theanine, all the good stuff. And it is a delicious cup of hot cocoa. They got a bunch of flavors. They got cinnamon cocoa, they got chocolate peanut butter. They got sea salt caramel. Actually, that one's my favorite. The cinnamon coke was my favorite for a while. But I like. I like the sea salt caramel one now because it's not a cocoa, right? 15 calories, no added sugar, and legit, it helps me sleep better. My sleep scores improved, and I'm a huge fan of this product. When they first reached out to us, I said, you know, I don't think I need this, but, you know, we're open, it's fine. I love this stuff. And then I started. I started drinking every night before bed, and legit, my sleep score started improving dramatically. So for guys, listen up. Your testosterone and HGH are produced in REM sleep and deep sleep. So if you're not getting good sleep, you're going to be irritable, tired, and fat. And I don't think you want to be like that. So check out shop B-E-A-M.com tim pool and you can get up to 40% off. Don't forget to also go to timcast.com join the discord. Make this possible. There's tens of thousands of people hanging out every single day. They are building new projects. There's pre shows, after shows. But more importantly, community is our strength. If you guys want to help change the world, you've got to connect with other people to build those projects. And at the same time, you're helping support the work that we do. So smash that, like, button right now and share the show with everyone. You know, if you want to support the work that we do. You already noticed we have a great guest here. It's Brian Callan.

[Brian Callan]

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Good to see you, buddy.

[Tim Pool]

Absolutely. Who are you?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, what's that?

[Tim Pool]

Who are you?

[Brian Callan]

What do you do? Oh, I'm just. I'm just a comic. I'm just a man. I like saying simple things. You know what I mean?

[Tim Pool]

Just a man.

[Brian Callan]

I get from point, point A to point B the best way I know how. Sometimes it's dangerous fact to the point. Things like that. I be that guy one time. You know what I mean? I want to be the guy who's like, that's a. That's a tale for another time, my friend. You know those guys who have got scars and a million stories and.

[Tim Pool]

And speckled, whitish gray beards.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Phil Labonte]

You're not telling the story. You can. You use that whenever you want.

[Brian Callan]

I could actually.

[Phil Labonte]

I could play it off.

[Brian Callan]

Just. I want to say wise things like, a tree grows as fast as a tree grows. Doesn't love my son. Do you hear him?

[Ian Crossland]

You use a lot of ellipses when you write.

[Brian Callan]

Ye. Yes, indeed, we.

[Tim Pool]

We do have another guest. It's Liv Bary.

[Liv Bary]

Hello.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, she's way more interesting. Oh.

[Tim Pool]

Who are you?

[Brian Callan]

What do you do?

[Liv Bary]

I used to be a pro poker player for a long time, which is how we met.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Liv Bary]

Playing poker. And now I don't even know how to describe what it is I do. I kind of do research and make content around the intersection of game theory, risk, and technology. So talk a lot about AI and how to make us not be in these race to the bottom spirals, whatever job title that is. I don't know.

[Brian Callan]

I feel like you could rob. She could rob a bank.

[Liv Bary]

Podcaster.

[Tim Pool]

There we go.

[Liv Bary]

Podcaster.

[Brian Callan]

Somebody with that accent. You. First of all, you sound very smart, and I. I would put all the money in a bag.

[Liv Bary]

It's just a British accent.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, I know. You could rob a bank and I'd be like, of course, of course. Just say this to me. Just go like this. Just go. I put all the money.

[Ian Crossland]

We got to open source the AI

[Liv Bary]

that's all the money in the bank.

[Ian Crossland]

Is that your solution?

[Brian Callan]

She's going to rob a bank. Watch this.

[Ian Crossland]

Do you think we should open source the AI?

[Tim Pool]

Sort of.

[Brian Callan]

Price. He's trying to make me do a thing.

[Liv Bary]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Tim Pool]

Did you know that for a long time all of the villains in our. In our cartoons were British?

[Brian Callan]

Of course.

[Tim Pool]

Like in Disney.

[Brian Callan]

Something about being British.

[Tim Pool]

There is, and it depends on the British accent. You're either extremely intelligent or extremely stupid. Right. Like, you have a posh accent. People are like, you must be smart if you look cockney. They're going to be like, this guy's an idiot.

[Brian Callan]

Well, you can say things. You can say horrible things, and somehow it feels like they're being polite. You can say something like, I'm going to have to flay, you know, defenestrate, and it won't be painless.

[Liv Bary]

Well, put all the money in a bag in it.

[Brian Callan]

That's more. Now they're like, oh great, that's, that's

[Liv Bary]

all in the bag right now.

[Brian Callan]

Right now.

[Phil Labonte]

That's serious.

[Liv Bary]

No, it's not.

[Tim Pool]

All right, we gotta talk about this news. Which is probably the stupidest story I've ever seen from the New York Post. Trump briefed that Iran's new Supreme Leader, Mujtaba Khamenei is probably gay and President has priceless reaction. Indeed, he busted a gut. Others in the room also found it hilarious and joined the President's reaction. While one senior intelligence official has not stopped laughing about it for days. Said one person familiar with the briefing. So here's what's interesting actually. There's been intelligence going back for quite some time that this dude might be gay. Apparently in the late 80s, early 90s he had to fly to the UK for impotence treatment because when he got married he couldn't get it going, you know what I'm saying? And so they were like, what's wrong with this young man who for some reason can't get it going? And they're trying to insinuate he's gay and just, I just want to stress the juvenile south park esque political strategy of we need to find a way to discredit the new Supreme Leader. We can call him gay.

[Brian Callan]

I'm just gay.

[Tim Pool]

I just imagine Scott being like, that's not funny.

[Brian Callan]

Even if it's true, they shouldn't bring it up. It's so stupid. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, at least our leaders straight.

[Tim Pool]

But, but for a country like Iran, it may be effective.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I have to be honest because I'm, I'm 12 years old. I'm looking at his face, he looks gay.

[Ian Crossland]

I know David Cross from.

[Brian Callan]

I swear to God. Now I'm like, hey, it looks kind of gay, which is so unfair. But he has a soft look.

[Tim Pool]

You say he has gay face?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, he's got like a case of gay face.

[Liv Bary]

Intellectual.

[Ian Crossland]

The show Arrested Development. I mean he looks like David Cross, very borderline. I think he's bisexual.

[Brian Callan]

A little bit like an Iranian round

[Ian Crossland]

kind of, you know.

[Tim Pool]

And look, look at his shirt. He blew himself.

[Liv Bary]

Maybe he's just an avenude.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, I hope he's gay.

[Tim Pool]

That's why he couldn't get it up.

[Ian Crossland]

I bet the, the staffer that keeps laughing, he's been laughing for days, is gay.

[Tim Pool]

Trump staffer is like, no, no, guys, guys, no one's laughing about it. It's it's like seven intel guys in a room with Trump dead, deadpan, serious. We have to call him gay.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

The only way to discredit, I mean, Trump's like, do you think it'll work? They're just very serious about.

[Brian Callan]

But I always wonder about the, what they say before that. It's like, who wants to tell him? Let me tell him, Let me tell him. You know what I mean? It's so dumb. Mr. President, sorry to interrupt your incredibly busy day. I know you're dealing with a war and everything else, but I imagine someone just bust in. Khomeini's gay.

[Phil Labonte]

I just imagine someone bust into the Oval Office and like, you're not going to believe this.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, no, no, no. I imagine it's much more serious. Like, Trump is going to listen. This war is not going good for me. The polls are not so good. We need to get something. We need to get the new government in very quickly. And they're like, I think the only move we have now is to call him gay. And Trump's like, suggestions, like, we call him gay. And he's like, okay, make it so. And that's their plan.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah, he was watching south park and he was like, I got a great idea.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, this is how we win the war, guys.

[Brian Callan]

That's right.

[Phil Labonte]

Supreme Leader, you know, he's not actually in a hospital then.

[Tim Pool]

I, I think he's dead.

[Ian Crossland]

He could be getting in the hospital.

[Phil Labonte]

He's out meeting boys.

[Liv Bary]

Wait, this guy?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people. I think he's dead.

[Ian Crossland]

He hasn't paid his, he hasn't shown his face for like two years.

[Tim Pool]

He's like, I gotta go out. He's like, he has to, he has

[Phil Labonte]

to go out and sow his wild oats in Russia to make sure that he has a good time before he goes. And actually he's just.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, maybe.

[Tim Pool]

I think he's, I think, I think, I think he's dead. The rumor going around for, for a while now is that he was killed. And the reason why the Iranians are still pretending like he's actually in charge is because they would have to say the Supreme Leader died, the second in line died, top 40 officials died, and then their government's going to collapse. There's nothing left.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

So, like, now that he's dead, posthumously nailing with the gay card, he's not coming out to be like, I'm, I'm masculine, you guys. Yeah, it's just going to be, here's

[Brian Callan]

my sex tape with a girl, guys.

[Ian Crossland]

Oh, maybe they will start deep faking sex tapes with this guy, which then will get him in the trap, which is what they always wanted.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

Was a bunch of comedy. Porm.

[Brian Callan]

That's a good point. Yeah. I just. I can't imagine being a man and, and realizing that the entire U.S. military and his Israeli military was trying to kill you. Like, it's over.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

You're not. They're gonna find you, you know, every time we see like F35s and F15s. Well, yeah, but can you imagine being on the receiving end of that stuff? I mean, good luck.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm surprised they haven't surrendered. And it may be because they haven't had Internet for 14 days. So the people have no idea what's going. I don't thought they link at this point at least, but I think they

[Brian Callan]

probably haven't surrendered because there's. There's an idea that if they, if they can wait this out. Right. Because I think what. They're a couple of things. They're thinking the only way for real regime change is boots on the ground. Yep. And do Americans have the stomach for that? If they don't and the Americans pull back and settle for some kind of a deal, what, what the command structure can then claim is that they ultimately stood up to America and Israel and won y. And it actually consolidates their power, so there's still profit to be had with resistance.

[Tim Pool]

So this was, this was a big mistake. I mean, I understand the, the reasons for doing it. A lot of people just want to say, like, oh, Israel, Israel, which is a small component, but not the principal reason why the west in general wants to get regime change in Iran. The problem is the Iranian strategy is we're in a midterm year. Trump cannot sustain a military operation for a long time. And after he is forced out, either by the Democrats winning Congress or just.

[Brian Callan]

That's right, just.

[Tim Pool]

Just attrition in general. Like, he can't sustain this economically. Like you said, they're going to say we defeated Israel in the United States or we held our own. Trump has no choice but to make sure this is done and done quickly. But apparently now the reports, they're saying it's going to last until September or longer. And Trump, there's that viral video where he's saying we need NATO assistance to go in and keep the Strait of Hormuz open, which is not a good sign. But then he was like, well, we don't need the help, you know, so he went back and forth. I think it's I think he's, I think he's cooked.

[Brian Callan]

The other thing people don't talk about is that Iran sells 90% of their crude oil to China. And in this AI war which is very real, you need energy.

[Phil Labonte]

Yep.

[Brian Callan]

You know all these people AI is going to take over are they, you know how much energy it takes. So China is, I think they get 30% of their energy from Iran.

[Phil Labonte]

That's a very significant 30% of their oil.

[Brian Callan]

Their oil, yeah. That's huge.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And China has about them having green but they need that oil.

[Phil Labonte]

Well no, I mean China's got an all in approach to energy production and China's actually crushing the U.S. but you point to, I like the bottleneck isn't actually going to be chips coming up in the next couple of years. The bottleneck is going to be energy production. China's got, got nuclear power, they've got the Three Gorge Dam, they've got another dam. They're building on solar as well. Yeah they've got, they've got, they've got an all in perspective on it. The US is, is lagging behind in the US really needs to do a lot to catch up. Right now we have the lead because we have the most, the most advanced ships. But in the future, in the next couple of years the actual bottleneck is going to be energy production. And that's kind of what China's goal is.

[Brian Callan]

Don't forget manufacturing too like ships. I think we make 5% of the ships. They make you know, 40 of the ships out there.

[Phil Labonte]

All of China. Any ship that's made in China is, has certain requirements that the military could take them. So they're, they any, any luxury ship, any kind of ship that's made China could actually commandeer from the, the private owner and could say we're going to use this for military operations. But that doesn't, that's not to say that they have a real navy. I think they have something like two

[Brian Callan]

aircraft they need, they need oil for a navy too.

[Phil Labonte]

And that's a great point that the oil that they do import from Iran like that's all for, for the trucking industry and it's all for using for their military arm. So the US taking that away from China or even taking off the edge.

[Liv Bary]

Right.

[Phil Labonte]

So even if they can impact their, their imports by I don't know, 10, 20%.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Phil Labonte]

Like they don't get all of the oil but it has an effect that's a big deal for China's military. Plus che's got like 20 unemployment young men. So they're in a real, real bad pickle. And this kind of like pressure from, from the US on the energy, on the energy side, it's a real big deal in China, so.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, but also the oil they get is gay.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, yeah. I wrote a, I wrote a piece

[Phil Labonte]

on my Patreon about the whole, the whole. Venezuela and Iran in conjunction are really actually trying to push China into a direction because Trump has a meeting with, with Xi, I believe the end of this month. I think it's the end of, end of March, could be in April, but the US Is going to walk in there. Remember the last time the, the US And China met, they China straight up said, you are not negotiating from a position of power. Trump's trying to change all that. When he meets with Xi again, he's going to be like, look, all of the things that you thought before, that is not the way that it is. The United States is arguing is, is negotiating from a position of authority.

[Tim Pool]

Do you think this is going to, like, how bad do you think it's going to be in the midterms over this? You got. Well, actually I start with, are you guys in favor of this strike, these strikes on Iran?

[Brian Callan]

I don't know. I find myself saying I don't know more and more. Yeah, yeah. Because, yeah, I don't know how to, I don't know how to predict the ripple effect. I don't know. My feeling is that every time we go into a country all gung ho, we tend to make this big mistake, which is maybe not be as informed about the culture and the ramifications. Nobody thought that these two wars in

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[Brian Callan]

u n D Iraq and Afghanistan would last 23 years. But they did. And I don't know.

[Tim Pool]

I think the obvious reason for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan was the invasion of Iran. When you look at where we set up all these military bases along the border on the east and west of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah, we're surrounding Iran.

[Brian Callan]

Well, the Israelis, a lot of people don't know. The Israelis were telling the Americans to invade Iran, not Iraq. Right, yeah, in oh three. So.

[Tim Pool]

Well, so, but the issue is Iran is mountainous, defensible, they've got surface to air missiles. The US could not just go in, so they needed to establish effectively a land beachhead essentially along the, the western, around Iran's, Iran's border.

[Brian Callan]

They're also a very homogenous group. They're all Shia, they're all Iranian, they're Persian.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

It's not like Iraq which had Shia and Sunni. And you know, that was a very significant divide.

[Phil Labonte]

Same thing in Afghanistan.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, that's right. Well, Afghanistan, the Hazara, they've got the Tajik, they've got the Pashtun, the different tribes of Pashtun. Afghanistan's always been a series of tribes that were always fighting with each other. So it was always easy to divide and conquer.

[Tim Pool]

Don't you just really want that cheap petrodollar oil, you know, where you as an American can be fat not to think about it? And Hillary Clinton comes back from, you know, you know, she comes back into office, she's withered and decayed, she's like, I want to go to war with everybody. And then. But your gas is a dollar a gallon.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

You know, hey, the energy 90s, you know, let's bring it back.

[Ian Crossland]

This, this energy generation argument might be a red herring. They keep saying we need whoever has creates the most electricity is going to win. But they're developing chips with this company Iron Lattice where they put the, the memory in the processor so there's no more busing agent. It's 10 million times less electricity to run programming. So it could be, it could be like what they're doing with the oil is they're trying to control the energy and prevent others from doing it. If we go like fusion power, everyone's got infinite. If these machines all start requiring 10 million times less, everyone's goes infinite. But it's like whoever goes does it first kind of. It doesn't matter who's got electricity at that point. It's just who has the dominating force and intelligence first. And then they, they stop and clear

[Tim Pool]

the, the rest, the rest.

[Brian Callan]

Right. They swallow everything up.

[Phil Labonte]

I think the US is looking at, at even like not taking your points for granted, but I think the US still is planning for the, the modern architecture to be what is used more moving forward. Because even if you're right about the chips, it's going to take some time to get those chips into production and get them out in the, in the quantities that they need. I mean AI takes, you know, entire,

[Tim Pool]

you know, warehouse full of GPUs to

[Phil Labonte]

be able to do the processing that it needs. So like, I don't just, I don't disbelieve what you're saying about the chips, but it's going to take time to actually make them in enough quantities to, to have the kind of data processing centers that AI needs.

[Ian Crossland]

Liv, I wanted to get your response to the question earlier too, about Iran. Like, what's your take on this?

[Liv Bary]

And I mean, I mean, I was largely informed by just all my Persian friends who were desperate for Trump to step in because they're just seeing like thousands and thousands of their people being slaughtered right, by a regime that they fundamentally hate. But of course, like, you know, this is me speaking to people in the diaspora who aren't necessarily representative of the people who live within Iran. But, and who knows the amount of propaganda coming out on both sides. But from what my experience was, was like, all the, like, I, you know, I spoke out a little bit about some of the, the slaughter of, of the protesters that happened in sort of January and February. And I've never received more messages of like, thanks from what seemed like legitimate Persian people like, Anonymous. Well, not Monica, but people I didn't know being like, thank you so much for speaking out about this. Everyone thinks that we're happy under this thumb of Islam and that we're, and where we're, and we are so desperate for them to get to go. And, and then you look at all the people celebrating, like those aren't fake videos, people celebrating in the streets when the strikes happened and the, you know, his, the, the initial Kymani died, people were over the moon. So I mean, I ultimately am being sort of guided by what the people who live there or the people who have family living there are saying. And they were ecstatic about this now, but what's the long term consequences? Of course, you know, you have to, you know, nature abhors a vacuum. So what are we going to put in place so that it doesn't turn into another Iraq or another Afghanistan?

[Tim Pool]

But, but on the point about the protests and the celebrations, consider an Iranian watching BLM protests. And what do you think they're telling, what do you think their influencers are telling, you know, saying on their podcasts, they're saying that when I called out the Trump government and, and highlighted the protests, they, I was getting messages. People were saying, thank you so much for highlighting this. The people of America deeply hate their government and want it overthrown somewhat. But no one can Stop them. So the issue that I. The people of America.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

The leftists who are marching for BLM and throwing Molotov cocktails.

[Liv Bary]

Oh yeah, they do, yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

Indeed. And those are the people that are going to message the Iranians saying, we need your help. So the messages you get are going to be the activists and the establishment.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah, it's exactly something. I'm not saying, I'm not saying they're,

[Tim Pool]

I'm not saying it's one for one. I'm just saying consider the psyop, the propaganda, the manipulation attempts.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah, of course I'm not. Yeah. But at the same time, it's just like we have to go off the evidence that is available and like, I don't know, every single person I've spoken to, they would just, they were sad because they were like, this is going to cause a lot of bloodshed. But they're just like, in the long run, we are not an Islamic country. We never were. We were colonized by this ideology. They have treated us like they, they treat us like cattle, basically. And they have to go. And they're willing to play blood, you know, pay in blood for that to go.

[Brian Callan]

It's a true theocracy. And 70 of the population, I think roughly is under 30. And they are seeing what the world is doing, you know, and they, they want to be part of the world and they've been an international pariah forever and a lot of it has to do. Sure, they sponsor different proxy armies, blah, blah, blah. A lot of people do. But I think, really think about it, living under that theocracy is oppressive. Having lived, you know, I, I lived in Middle east and I lived in Saudi Arabia for three years as a kid and the mullahs had a lot of power and things are kept pretty strict. So if you're somebody like us and you want to talk, you're an artist, you want to express yourself, think about the bottled up frustration. You're just not allowed to express yourself. You're not allowed to do anything that doesn't fall within. Because one of the things about the Quran, especially a country like Iran, at least they try, is the Quran. Is the Quran. Having separation of church and state with an Islamic country is very difficult because the Quran is really a blueprint for how to run everything from your marriage to even banking. And a lot of people don't know that. So it's very difficult to kind of like enjoy the kinds of liberties that western democracies do with all our problems, all our warts and everything else. There is a fundamental difference. I think the frustration is very real. And I do think those crackdowns.

[Tim Pool]

I agree. I think. I think the. I'm just pointing out the propaganda, the psyops, because I think if you actually look at the global effect of what's going on in Iran is there's not very many Americans fleeing to Iran for comfort. There are quite a great deal of Iranians fleeing Iran all over the world to get away from the oppression.

[Liv Bary]

Exactly.

[Tim Pool]

So that's the easiest way to look at it. So when you hear these stories of, you know, I think it's important to consider the propaganda as my point, but you can look at the real defects. And the left often says America is oppressive and awful, yet everyone in the world is trying to get it.

[Liv Bary]

Exactly.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, I know. Because it's great. Yep.

[Ian Crossland]

When they said that those 10,000 protesters, you know, a month ago you mentioned were getting killed in the street, first thing I was like, well, I think we should obliterate that government if they're

[Brian Callan]

going to do that.

[Ian Crossland]

And then the second thought was, this could be all fake news. And I sat there and, like, paralyzed you for, like, this strange state of like. And, like, as a military commander, I would have let all those. Those people, if I had been the commander, they all would have died on my watch if they really died.

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[Ian Crossland]

That was a vanguard to overthrow that government from the inside, now they're dead. I don't even know if they were real. And does anyone know for sure if any protesters got killed?

[Brian Callan]

I think they do know for sure.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

I think there's a lot of evidence and I think there's video as well.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. The thing about psyOps is that I think you can make the argument it was a false flag, which is really hard to pull off in Iran when we're not there or attacking them yet. But you're not going to be able to pull off grand claims if it didn't happen. Right. So usually when you get these claims of an atrocity or whatever, one side may exaggerate for political purposes, but you're not going to be able to just lie and claim a bunch of people died if they didn't die.

[Brian Callan]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

Right. There's gotta. There's.

[Brian Callan]

There's like, there are so many people,

[Liv Bary]

like Persian people who have family members still, like, who are in the diaspora, whose family live, like, families live there, who either know someone who died or had, you know, a friend of a friend die, like, by huge numbers last month.

[Brian Callan]

Yes. The frustration. Yeah.

[Liv Bary]

Like, it's like They, I mean, maybe the numbers are exaggerated, but I think it's a far crazier to claim that the thing. To claim that nobody died when there is, you know, there are lots of people putting tons of effort into trying to establish numbers now. What is the range of the numbers? Is it. Is it between 5,000 and 10,000 or is it between 10,000 and 70,000 or even 500 and 1,000? We don't. Maybe that's the harder thing to pin down. But to say that nothing happened at all and it was all made up, it just seems completely ridiculous. There are literally people saying, I know this person and they died. They are no longer with us and

[Tim Pool]

I know where this is all going. And we're going to segue, we're going to dip onto the AI stuff. So we're just talking right now about psychological operations. The protests in Iran, who died. I think one of the biggest problems the US is facing right now is that our social media is inundated with foreign actors with foreign political agendas to manipulate the people of the United States. So the US government will do their bidding. And I know a lot of people immediately just say, oh, Israel is doing it. Well, you know, Israel is, but a lot of other countries are as well. The direction I see this going is going to be mandatory IDs for Internet usage. Elon already implemented on X. I say Elon, but X already implemented as a company. You can click someone's profile and see what country they're from. And this exposed a bunch of Bangladeshis masquerading as Native Americans.

[Liv Bary]

Really?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. And they were. And they were woke indigenous rights activists, but the Bangladeshis, and it was predominantly Bangladesh, some Pakistan, because they make money doing it. They know that the rage bait will get clicks, it'll make them money. But then you got to take a look at. There are a lot of personalities that may be for or against the American military industrial complex plans or whatever. Likely. Here's my prediction of the future. They're already Talking about needing IDs to log in. It's been a thing that's been brought up for quite a. For quite a long time. Discord is talking about facial scans and ID requirements and things, things like this. You will have foreign actors locked out. Right. The Iranians are. A lot of people have complained that X allows the Ayatollah or allowed him to spread propaganda on the platform, but you knew it was him. The bigger question is if they've got Cyber Command, like their cyber army going up on our social media platforms and then Spam blasting comments. And I'm going to tell you this. There was a story earlier today about a judge blocking RFK Jr. S vaccine changes. And so I commented, Judges are the supreme authority of the nation, just as the founding fathers intended. Okay? Anybody who speaks English knows that the extreme language that I use indicates sarcasm. And anybody who knows the function of our government and checks and balances knows it was a joke. I got a respond from a guy that looks like an American who said, this is incorrect, Tim. That the purpose. The founding fathers established three branches of government to keep balance between the three, with no one being greater than the other, which no American, in my opinion, would actually say because it's first grade, it's kindergarten level stuff. So there's two scenarios. I see a foreigner. So another example is I once made a tweet that said, Israel has never done anything wrong because Israel is the nexus of morality. If Israel does it, it is good. Clearly sarcasm. I tweeted it and I got responses from people that were taking it literally and saying things like, you know, where's the you're hiding the yarmulke? Or whatever. My theory on that is these are foreign actors who don't speak English, so they can't detect sarcasm when you click translate and it converts English into whatever language. They don't see my joke. They see me saying something like, Israel is a force for good and we support Israel.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

They don't actually see.

[Brian Callan]

They don't get the nuance.

[Tim Pool]

Indeed. And then the point about the judges being the supreme authority, either it's AI that can't understand a joke, but AI actually can grasp that. I think these are foreign individuals clicking translate or using a translator, not understanding the context. And this is how you kind of weed them out. This means, and I think it's fair to say many people, and you pick which side, left, right or otherwise, are being heavily influenced by foreign financing. And I guys, we've heard the reports about Israel paying $7,000. The truth is it's not $7,000. That was just an average based on how much they had spent throughout the year. But there were individuals who all of a sudden on a dime were just pro Israel. So I think there's probably truth to that. But I also think it's fair to say that we have foreign cyber armies that train people explicitly to run 50 accounts at once.

[Brian Callan]

We do.

[Tim Pool]

And blast you, I think in the future they are going to mandate that you have an id. And we already see this somewhat with X Premium. Right. You've got to Prove who you are. And if you don't have premium, you're getting a second tier thing. This is phase one.

[Brian Callan]

Sounds good. Do you like that? Sounds like a good idea. I guess on the surface.

[Tim Pool]

Pros and cons, pros and cons. There's two arguments for this world. One is that dissent can only be allowed if people are allowed to, to have anonymity, like the Founding Fathers, use pseudonyms. They knew that if they spoke out against the Crown or, you know, British Parliament, they could be hanged for treason. So they had to lie about who they were and then disperse these, these messages at the same time. The Founding Fathers did not have our adversaries. Like imagine if the Barbary nations, the Barbary pirates, had the Internet and were, and were convincing the people in America that they actually weren't pirates, that we were the pirates attacking them. And then all of a sudden our government didn't establish the Marines to go. Jefferson didn't go and do these things. The challenge is ultimately it comes down to all is fair and love is love and war. Love and war. And at a certain point you have to choose to use power or die. Now, I don't know where that point is. Maybe it's now, maybe it's not. But we have lived in this classically liberal mindset for a long time, which has those.

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[Tim Pool]

u n d bus. Who have been fairly moderate or even right leaning have been crushed by the far left, who have, who have no respect whatsoever for our classical liberal sensibilities. And I don't mean politically liberal, I mean the philosophically classically liberal. And then we're getting run, run over by foreign adversaries manipulating our social media. The question is, at what point do we decide to just slam the fist on the table and say we're locking this down. You need to prove who you are if you want to be in our spaces. Because we don't want China, the Chinese cyber army manipulating us. And we are not going to allow Marxists to give kids sex changes. Otherwise you just keep saying, well, we have to be fair and allow them to do it because it's free speech. But then eventually you cease to exist.

[Brian Callan]

Right. Because it's. It. It's a cyber attack, essentially, is what it is. It's the same thing. Right. You know what I worry about? I really worry that we are losing our belief in the ideal. And I'll even use the word brand of America. And what I mean by that is this. I'm old enough to remember when I was growing up, we really believed that America ultimately was trying to do the right thing. What I mean by that is that when we went into a country, you can look, it was Iraq, it was Afghanistan, it was, for that matter, Vietnam. The idea, at least behind it was we are fighting for democracy, for individual liberty, for all these things that are freedom of speech. It was, in a way, the fabric of being an American, that we were the good guys. And that was very real for me as I grew up, because I do think that, for the most part, our leaders, certainly our soldiers, and to an extent still believe that. You hear it right now with Iran, with the idea that these protesters and the people need to rise up, bring democracy and stuff like that. But there's a cynicism in America, and we've earned it to, To a large extent. You can start with our. Our distrust in institutions that probably happened with the Catholic Church and how they never came to terms with, with the amount of pedophilia we can keep going with how many different institutions have been corrupted, especially the fourth estate, the media that seems to have just become more interested in playing to their, Their echo chamber and to ratings. So it wasn't really about the truth or objective reality anymore. And I really do worry that young people. And you just did, like, you were like, I don't know what to believe. That's a huge problem. And I get it, you know, because you're like, hey, wait a minute. How do I know I'm not being gamed? And I really do think that we cannot go into countries like Iran and just use language like, we're starving the Chinese of oil. This is good for America because we need hegemony that's not American, ultimately, because it's hard to get. Because then, then there's no difference between America and Russia, America and China.

[Tim Pool]

I.

[Brian Callan]

We have to fight for an ideal, even if it's, Even if we're embracing it in a fake way. We're a brand, and people do come to this country for all those things that we take for granted.

[Tim Pool]

I, I half agree.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

You know, if we just say, like, we want to cut off China and it sounds strategic and militarized. Yeah, it's not. That's no good. But I also think that, you know, back in the Bush era when he was like, they hate us for our freedoms, me and all my friends, like, rolled our eyes like, me too. That's like, that doesn't make sense. That there's something, there's a reason.

[Brian Callan]

Dude, I lived in the Middle East. I was like, I remember saying that. I was just like, I was there for eight years of my life.

[Tim Pool]

Was it, was it the Predator drones flying over their, their homes every day that freaked them out?

[Brian Callan]

I was like, they don't hit our freedoms.

[Tim Pool]

But I will say this, I will say this. I believe substantially more Americans would support the war in Iran if Trump was honest about the function of the liberal economic order. Now here's the, here's the thing. When you're pitching something to somebody, you gotta, you gotta aim for the lowest common denominator. You're not gonna go to someone and explain, you know, the Council on Foreign Relations has this website where what you are gonna say is, listen, I think, I think this pitch would actually work for the most part. And I will say this to the American people right now, and you don't have to agree with it. Gas prices and products remain cheap in the United States because we point guns at other countries and say, you will trade oil on the US dollar or you will die. Now, by all means, that sounds immoral and horrifying. And our presidents have done horrifying things to maintain that. Do you want to spend $10,000 for a laptop or do you like your thousand dollar laptop?

[Brian Callan]

Well, I don't know if I think that that's the case. I think the petrodollar is the petrodollar because the one economy, the one country that's stable, the one place, you know, things won't go totally haywire. At least now for the past, you know, for, for most of our existence, but certainly for the past 70 years has been the United States. If you invest in property. Well, because we do have the biggest guns, right? But we also, we also, however, have done a very good job and we have to give ourselves credit for keeping this democracy alive. And checks and balances and Madison and John Jay and Alexander Hamilton, those geniuses, statues to those guys, because they did well.

[Tim Pool]

They tore them down.

[Brian Callan]

I know. And they solved the political problem.

[Tim Pool]

But, but listen, the issue primarily that we do not produce enough for our economy to make sense. Other countries have to Buy US Dollars before they can buy oil, which means they're promising to give us their debt, their labor, if they just want to buy the oil. We effectively own all of the world's oil. But there's an exchange for this. You will be able to trade freely without fears as we police the seas and police the oceans, and we are going to get everything in order. Trump wants the Suez, he wants Panama, he wants Greenland, he wants to control the waterways so he can fulfill this promise. He wants to get oil to China because he wants China to get back on the dollar because they're getting off of it. He's negotiating with Russia, get back on the dollar. He's going to the Saudis and saying, what do you want us to do? You want us to bomb Iran because the Saudis got off the petrodollar contract? If we lose the petrodollar, the standard of living for the average American is going to drop by 80%. We do not export nearly enough to maintain the level, level of luxury we have. However, we are the world police. It's effectively what we do export, whether you agree with it or not. So I said this back in 2016 with Trump and Hillary and the message Trump had, the message Hillary had. Hillary Clinton was asked about a no fly zone in Syria, which she advocated for, and was told explicitly that that would be a declaration of war with Russia. Russia has a naval base in Tartus. They have jets, they have planes. If we said no one can fly anymore, we're declaring war on Russia. And she said she didn't care. And I said, listen to my friends. Do you like your dollar slice? Do you like your dollar slice of the free pop? That's because we are the global hegemony. We are the unipolar power. We can make all these countries do what we want. Saddam Hussein wants to trade oil and Euro boom. He's dead, okay? Muammar Gaddafi wants to trade oil and gold dinar. He's gone. We came, we saw, he died. That's what Hillary Clinton said. That's the machine state. You live comfortably and in ignorance, like a fat guy floating around in Wally. So long as the US maintains its domination of these other countries, you go for Trump. Trump wants to secure our borders. He wants to bring manufacturing back and he wants to bring back grit and hard work and a lot of fat cats in D.C. who make money through the, the rotating of assets and resources through these NGOs. They don't want that. It's not a guarantee that the Trump world is going to bring back Manufacturing to do these things. But his worldview is cut off this offshoring and these free trade agreements. Bring the auto factories back, do tariffs. Americans will get back to hard work and we will be a strong nation, not an international bombing nation. And the reason why I think a lot of people are mad, or I would say my principal argument here is I've advocated for that worldview of build up Americans culture. Americans should have kids, teach their kids the good values. Everything you described about being the good guys. And now Trump is going, we're gonna bomb around like, you know what to get the economy good. It's so much easier just to take the oil from somebody else. So again, the simple thing I'm trying to say is I think this war would get a lot more support if Trump said. And they've, they've, they've, they've glazed it a little bit. They've, they've, they've, they've, you know, crop dusted close, but not quite short term pain for long term gain. We want to stabilize oil trade. Just to be honest, the American people. And if it doesn't work, well, then too bad. We told Iran, fall in line with the Petrodollar, stop putting pressure on the Strait of Hormuz, stop threatening your Gulf State neighbors, stop arming militias and the Houthi rebels who are bombing civilians, and you're fine. And they don't want to do it. So you want to live clean and comfortable. You want cheap computers, cheap cars and cheap gas. Then you want a unipolar global United States power.

[Ian Crossland]

The tough sell is getting people to accept making people your vassal when you're standing for freedom.

[Tim Pool]

That's the, that's the challenge.

[Brian Callan]

That's interesting. Yeah, that's a really interesting point.

[Ian Crossland]

You could vassalize the planet and then establish freedom, like freedom within a perimeter, which was what we have already. You have to have an outward facing military, inward facing freedom. So we could set that up. You just got to convince people that that's the plan and the actions speak louder than words.

[Tim Pool]

I think the, the reality is the reason why we do the freedom narrative. The truth is lowest, lowest common denominator is how you sell. Have you ever seen these comedy videos just for laughs gags on YouTube? There's no, there's no talking. It's a laugh track. And all of the gags are done without words. And they get massive viewership because someone from China, India, someone from Madagascar can watch that and get the joke. So if you want to convey a message to most people, what's going to work. They kill protesters, they're evil and they hate our freedom. And you know you're going to cut off the intellectuals, you're going to cut off the moderates, but you're going to get 60% of the disinterested and ignorant masses.

[Phil Labonte]

It's worth noting that most of the countries, not, not every country, but most of the countries that do decide that they're going to play ball with the US and I'm not talking about the ones that we go and, and get into a war with, but most of the countries that say okay, we're going to play ball with the US and, and use the petrodollar system, et cetera. Most of them end up with markets that make their societies better off in the long run.

[Tim Pool]

The long term play was we're going to give you money for development and then you'll be in debt to us forever. And that's how we stabilize the planet. They are trying to create. You know what the problem is? They want global homogenization. They want everyone operating under the quote unquote rules based order that is the liberal economic order. The problem is when we go to Afghanistan and you've got a bunch of people who are, you know, with all due respect, not very smart. They can't do jumping jacks, they're goat farmers. And what did the Americans try to do? We nation built and hold on, that's not the worst part. We tried to make them gay communists.

[Phil Labonte]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not joking. The murals that they put up for pride and homosexuality to a deeply conservative tribal nation.

[Liv Bary]

What they put murals

[Tim Pool]

in Kabul that the city?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

There were videos coming out when we pulled out of Afghanistan and there are murals of trans rights and stuff.

[Brian Callan]

You're joking.

[Phil Labonte]

It's true.

[Tim Pool]

Dead serious need to see this. This is the, this is the problem. I'll put. This is the problem.

[Brian Callan]

Talk about ignorance.

[Tim Pool]

If we said sell your oil in dollars, you be you.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

No war you be.

[Brian Callan]

That would have been what Alexander the Great would have done. He would have said keep all your cultures and everything else just, just, let's just have an economic arrangement. That's good.

[Liv Bary]

I mean there's presumably more though with the Iran thing than just that given that Iran was seemingly funding a lot of, you know, the Hamas, everything else which was destabilizing the western order in many ways.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Liv Bary]

Like I don't think it's just, I mean it's obviously just multi causal the reason why, but maybe the underlying one, the main reason is the.

[Brian Callan]

I also think, I think You're, I think you're right. And I also think that you, you, I really do believe that a lot of people consider Iran to be a theocracy, meaning there is something messianic about or deeply religious about the struggle. I mean, one of the reasons that, you know, Hamas is intractable and one of the reasons that this issue with the Palestinians now and, and a lot of the Arab world and Israel is intractable has nothing to do with economics. No, it has to do with religion. When after the Six Day War, when Israel essentially humiliated Egypt and the other six Arab countries that invaded and destroyed all of Egypt's run, I mean, Air force before it got off the Runway, etc. It went from a pan Arabic, you know, notion of we'll, we'll unite together as Arabs and become a strong power to a religious struggle. And then if you add to that the kinds of military dictatorships that the United States was supporting, like Mubarak and those people, the Muslim Brotherhood was founded in the torture chambers of those Egyptian prisons. You know, the economies were not good. Nobody had anything to do. And it really has become a religious struggle. And so there are a lot of people, I think in intelligence that look at Iran and if they got a bomb, I do, I don't think they would do this, but there are people that actually think that they would do something very irrational. I think that. I don't, I don't agree with it though. I think they're very rational.

[Phil Labonte]

Change a country's economic system, but you're not going to change their culture. You can convince them that a McDonald's on the corner or Starbucks on the corner is actually a good thing, but you can't convince them that their way of life is wrong.

[Brian Callan]

And then being the regime because the majority of Iranians, Persians are looking for liberties that all of us enjoy. They just are.

[Ian Crossland]

It seems to get to the religious dialogue when it gets desperate because like Saudi Arabia, you know, religiously bipolar to the United States. But they're a great asset and ally because we, we get along economically. They're selling well, they were selling our dollars. But like, I think this really comes from like post World War I, pre, post World War I Ottoman Empire shatters. We're like, let's just extract the shit out of the Iranian oil. That's true.

[Brian Callan]

British did that. They, they stayed. You're exactly right.

[Ian Crossland]

And that you could take it back even further. Like what in the 1800s is. The Ottoman Empire seized it from the Romans. And it's like, how far back does this struggle between referentials go the fish

[Tim Pool]

that first crawled out ten thousand years,

[Ian Crossland]

a hundred thousand years.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. Crawled out the ocean for this, this leg.

[Ian Crossland]

I always look at the, the British oil companies that went in there after World War I and tried to like take over the Middle east, de facto set up Israel and the, the, you know, the Palestine arrangement and how we rectify that. Just gotta be honest with people though. I mean, stop. Obviously people know it now, so just tell them this is what we're doing. We're trying to set up a unipolar world promise not to wreck it once we get it going.

[Brian Callan]

But I'm not as cynical as that. I'm more. I think what's happened with the Gulf states and the Abraham Accords have to be given their due. You know, it's become, for people like, for countries like Israel, for the uae, for Saudi Arabia, it's just become more advantageous to get involved in the global economy in a deep way, which means become a trading partner with the United States dollars. Money is what makes everybody happy, you know, And I think that people are thinking Iran would be a great economic asset. You've got an educated, literal, literate population, 70% which are under 30. And I mean, can you imagine if they were allowed to be a liberal economy? Money baby. Not just oil, but you know, an industrious group of people. So I'm naive enough to hope for that. I hope that happens. I don't see it happening. I hope it does. I hope we don't end up destroying their oil infrastructure to the point where they can't rebound and that would be a huge disaster.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, so there was a.

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[Tim Pool]

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[Tim Pool]

u n d story back when we pulled out of Afghanistan during the whole thing about art that had been put up up for gay rights. I cannot find it. It's been five years, four and a half years. So if I can't figure that one out, well then just take it with a grain of salt. But there are stories about, right this one for instance, back when the US was in Afghanistan and putting up pride flags as well as the flying of pride flags at all of the U.S. embassies and murals that we put up on our territory in a bunch of these countries. So I think one of the issues is it's one thing to say that we are a classically liberal country that believes in free speech and we want to spread democracy, but then you get the incessant defense of, you know, look, I know people in the United States are very pro gay, but these countries are not. And so if you're a global power and you're like, we are going to be an affront to your values, I mean, it's probably one of the principal reasons Iran does not like us and won't fall in line because they're like, they're a bunch of heathens. There are a bunch, it's Sodom and Gomorrah.

[Brian Callan]

I mean, you have to, you have to sympathize with it. You know, if you're, if you're from another, if you're from a conservative Muslim country, for example, like, and, and the Americans are trying to get you to be like them. Well, we've got some problems. Like, I mean, how about broken families? How many, what, what is, how many people are on some kind of drug in this country there, you know, what, what is the state of the American family? What's the state of our education? Well, what's the state of our spiritual health?

[Tim Pool]

I wonder, I wonder what the Iranian government thought of abortions in the United States.

[Brian Callan]

There you go.

[Tim Pool]

And so you can, you can invert the position and try and understand what these other countries are thinking. Now, by all means, I think the Iranian government is a theocratic, militant, backwards, you know, way of living. And I wouldn't want them to impose that on us. So imagine China, the Communist Party of China, is the unipolar power again. And I'm going to say this about war with Iran and US Interests. China is, is, is, is on track to become the dominant global economic power. They've got the Belt and Road Initiative, which is effectively their version of the imf, and they are cutting deals with tons of countries. If we do nothing and the US Falters, you and the United States will find yourself living under their way of life, their views, and the horrible things they do. Do you want to live that way? Do you want the Chinese Communist Party exerting pressure over the United States? And the movies we watch, the things that we see, look at what's going on right now already with how we make movies. We, when we made, for instance, Top Gun Maverick. They took the Tibetan flag off of his jacket because it would be offensive to China.

[Brian Callan]

Dude. I did a movie in China and we shot in Beijing and I had a huge scene where I was, I had to run down this Chinese gangster and you know, arrest him and stuff. And I was going to do it through the old city. So I actually had to like. They were like, listen dude, you got to stretch. It's going to be a two day shoot. I'm, I'm going to be running, chasing gun tackle, doing stunts and all that stuff. And so I was like, damn, this is a big scene. This is going to be a two day thing. It was really hot in Beijing. It's like, you know, crazy. But it's in through the old city. I was going to get into places and we're doing it all. And stuntmen, we're talking. I'm going to have to do all the running. And well, the word got out to the government and they said absolutely not. We're not having an American arrest a Chinese national in a movie that we are partially financing. Wow. And we scrapped the entire two days. That's a huge scene. And we had to do my character. We had to just literally change everything. And on this almost on the spot, it was a disaster.

[Tim Pool]

Think about how worse it could be. Think about China coming to Cuba and then putting 30,000 troops in Cuba and taking Guantanamo Bay from us and then we can't do anything about it. Or going to Saudi Arabia and cutting off oil distribution to the United States. And then all of a sudden we see our gas prices skyrocketing.

[Brian Callan]

I don't think China could do it. I don't think China has our. They don't have. They haven't been in a war in forever, we know, but in constant war they don't have the energy to keep up with our.

[Tim Pool]

But we're not going on in on drones.

[Brian Callan]

You're talking about, you're talking.

[Tim Pool]

We're talking about if the US economy fall alters and China becomes the dominant unipolar power. Imagine a scenario where the Chinese military is. They've got ships going between Florida and Cuba like we do with Taiwan. So right now we can do what we want. We can get what we want. I believe the growing faction of woke in this country is.

[Brian Callan]

Did.

[Tim Pool]

Did come. Did arise to a certain degree from anti establishment views, populist views, from people who are fed up with the lies, the manipulations and the failures of interventionist policies. However, it then turned into Marxist insanity for the purpose of just destroying the United States. One theory that I've entertained is that the, the purpose of woke and communism is to cause a rapid decline in the United States. Are you familiar with Thucydides trap? This is a, it's, it's a theory that whenever a dominant economic power is about to be supplanted by an up and coming economic power, you get war. And they say historically, 12 of the 16 times we have seen the dominant power get displaced, war has broken out. So one theory that, that I've entertained is that the US Opens the door to China, gives them all of our jobs very, very quickly. Over a short period of time, over, you know, 10, 15 years, we see all of our factories moving to China, all of our cultural institutions, like, I mean like the manufacturing bases which built these, these cultures. That way, if it ever comes time for there to be an economic flip, it would be so dramatic. There would be no possibility of a Thucydides trap. And when you plug that into what the purpose of the liberal economic order was to prevent World War iii, it does make sense. Don't know if that's what's actually going on. What is Trump doing, even with the attack on Iran, is reestablishing the United States as the dominant unipolar power in the liberal economic order. If Trump did not found and Hillary Clinton got elected, our policies that embolden and enrich China would have continued. They're buying up our farmland, they're buying our land near military bases, they're bringing kids here through birth tourism, having kids who are citizens who can run for, for president in our own country. And our manufacturing base is being shipped off largely, not only, but largely to China where they are now getting the jobs. And what happens, what happened during COVID when they turned the switch off for manufacturing? We were left without ppe. If Trump did not get in, that would have accelerated.

[Brian Callan]

What is ppe?

[Tim Pool]

Personal protective equipment. So this was masks, gloves, clothing for doctors. Whatever your opinion is on it, you know, you don't need to be wearing two masks, whether you did or didn't. The point is they were manufacturing our masks for us. So when. So China turned around American ships and seized products that were manufactured in China by American companies. What would have happened had Trump not turned this around? Now I see Trump bombing Iran and I'm like, yeah, Trump wants to reestablish the liberal economic order and the, and the petrodollar system and make the United States dominant. And the powers that be that were, that were going the other direction are pissed off about it. But I Think they may have lost. The only problem now is you get

[Ian Crossland]

war with Iran and the pendulum now instead of swinging towards communist China taking over and censoring and shutting us down, the pendulum is now swinging back towards corporate governance taking over and shutting us down. Because it's. If US establishes global hegemony, then that means that they can shut off your bank account because there's one economic chamber. If you say fuck on the Internet maybe or whatever the word that you said seven years ago was, that was bad. The AI can scrape it and put you in digital ostracization. It's like, how do we defend against that?

[Brian Callan]

We can't have a unified against that. Sorry, Please.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah, I mean it's just like there's sort of two attractor states. One is to, you know, because it's almost like China are using our values of freedom against us.

[Brian Callan]

Right?

[Liv Bary]

They're, they're, they are very, very good at coordinating. They have this very centralized, top down structure whereby they can dictate what people can do and people are living under less freedom. But they are also therefore able to make these five year, ten year. Like when, where's the America ten year plan?

[Brian Callan]

I'll tell you where our plan is though. I don't worry about that even a little bit. It. Okay, two things that people aren't taking into account. China has major problems, not the least of which is their demographic problem. They are literally a declining population. They don't have young people to support their old people or the economy, number one. And we have the same problem by the way, so. And I've had four kids, so that's.

[Tim Pool]

But it's okay.

[Brian Callan]

There's one other thing. Innovation. We're still far and away United States, the leader in innovation. Think about AI and the entire tech industry that came out of this country. China is a, China has copied a lot of our stuff. But at the end of the day the United States is a, an innovation juggernaut. And that's why I get so worried when we have socialists and people who tend to believe in this collectivist idea. You've got to reward people for their ingenuity and their risk taking. That's how you keep entrepreneurship and innovation alive.

[Tim Pool]

I think. Let's, let's, let's talk about AI. I believe that the military, the government's secret, confidential, top secret AI is substantially more advanced than the AI that we see and use. It is known that the US military, the US government has been working on AI since the 70s. Very, very early stuff going way back.

[Liv Bary]

Like what kind of AI.

[Tim Pool]

So it was, it was very rudimentary. But the way we see it now, the, the, the attempts.

[Liv Bary]

LLMs.

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Liv Bary]

Using deep Neural Net, you know, like

[Tim Pool]

that was their goal starting in the 70s. Now, whether or not they had the computational power to rapidly accelerate beyond what we've seen today, the argument is this, let me just put it like this. Whether you believe it or not, do you think the government has been working on deep neural, you know, LLMs and all that longer than the private sector?

[Brian Callan]

I think, I think ARPA and DARPA are probably, that's probably what the kinds of things they do.

[Tim Pool]

Why would they not have. They have access to training data and data sets that no other private, that organization could get access to.

[Liv Bary]

That's not true. The training data is the Internet.

[Tim Pool]

Indeed. And, and what, and what did the US government have before the Internet?

[Liv Bary]

Not much.

[Tim Pool]

Nothing in the NSA where they took literally all of our data.

[Liv Bary]

It's tiny though. It's so, it's so there was, there's very little digital communications back then apparently.

[Ian Crossland]

1950s. In 1956 at Dartmouth Workshop they formally started the Dartmouth Summer Research Project and artificial intelligence in 1956.

[Liv Bary]

But it used to be the artificial intelligence back then meant something very, very different to what it is now. And like these huge general models, the reason why they're so powerful is because they are just fed reams, you know, indeed of data that just did not exist back then.

[Tim Pool]

And a few things to consider is the government is unrestrained and without ethics. They don't have the limitations that anthropic Google OpenAI would have. They can steal all of the data from all of these companies with a single written letter.

[Phil Labonte]

If that were the case, why would the, why would the DOD be using clause?

[Tim Pool]

Because that's just public facing stuff. Do you believe that the weapons the government has are the only weapons that exist?

[Brian Callan]

But a lot, a lot of the, a lot of the technology is private enterprise that is contracted. Indeed, you're right to say that, that there are certain innovations that no private enterprise is going to be involved in because it takes too long with too much money without a return. And that's where things like DARPA and ARPA come along.

[Tim Pool]

Let's try this. We know that the NSA was spying on us and they lied about it. We know the CIA is spying on us and they lied about it. We know that they are spying on effectively literally everything we do on the Internet. One of the most notable was X key score revealed by Edward Snowden. They could just type something and find whatever you posted about it. We know about the massive NASA. I'm sorry NASA NSA data center in Utah which has been around for what, 20 some odd years collecting all this information. And I believe it is more likely it's not about spying on the American people. I don't think they need that to track down threats. Obvious was more about continuing their AI research and taking whatever data they could. Now to be fair. Agreed. It was admittedly more rudimentary at the time because Internet data was. Was much much smaller. But that still gives them an advantage with their data centers. We get to the space where you now have all of these different AI companies and the government just takes their data. Whatever their training models is are all of those structures they will get. Get all of it at once.

[Brian Callan]

What. How do they. How do they do that?

[Tim Pool]

By spying on us and stealing our data. Or if you want to do it manually. It's called the National Security Letter.

[Brian Callan]

The government. One of the things though I think that the. The government got privy to was that the AI labs were not being upfront. Their safety teams were like hey, this is not. We're creating things that seem to be hard to control. And I believe that our intelligence agencies etc were probably being told one thing and they got privy to the fact that they weren't being.

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[Brian Callan]

U N d told the whole story.

[Tim Pool]

I think our intelligence agencies have substantially more advanced AI systems. There is a massive power discrepancy in Northern Virginia. Are you familiar with this?

[Brian Callan]

No.

[Tim Pool]

Something like 5 gigawatts. We went over this last year. I forgot the exact number. But where we live in our main studio we are in a power corridor for what's. What the. I referred to as the Northern Virginia instance. It is. We don't. So here's what we know. There's a massive power discrepancy. A massive consumption of power is occurring in Northern Virginia that is unaccounted for presumed to be tied to the massive data centers that are perhaps intelligence agencies. We. I'll tell you. Let me. Let me tell you this crazy story. So our property. And oh boy is the AI. They're going to get mad at me about this one. So I postulated unto myself, if military technology is consistently, we believe, more advanced than the private sector in terms of weapons because they're not constrained by laws like we are for the most part, wouldn't this be true for AI as well? And then I started looking into it and found yes, the US DARPA and ARPA have been working on AI tech going back I thought, I thought the first project for the 70s apparently said they were formalizing in the 50s. And I then asked the AI, I was talking to a particularly prominent and powerful company, I'm going to leave it unnamed. And I said if it is true that military technology is more advanced in the private sector and academics predict there will come a point when the AI is sufficiently advanced that'll begin running our, our systems, our government, our society, then at what point would military technology have reached the levels where they would be privately behind the scenes without the knowledge of the public, running our systems, advising or controlling things. And it said the basic math would be 2012 if military technology is more advanced than, than public sector technology. Which is interesting because that's around the time we saw in the LexisNexis data wokeness you see the. I don't know if you guys have seen the LexisNexis data on words pertaining to white supremacy, patriarchy, oppression, etc. LexisNexis showed that across the board, in every country on the Internet, the instances of these keywords, LGBT, trans, etc. It's a hockey stick. From almost no mentions in media to literally tens of thousands every single day. Now maybe, maybe that's just the Internet, who knows?

[Liv Bary]

I mean, I think it can be, it's just, it's cultural phenomenons can be decentralized. Everything has to be.

[Tim Pool]

Indeed. But the question then is why did it happen in Uganda? And at the same time and you, you know, in, in countries that don't have heavy communications, it could just be. Well again I'm going to pause and say I don't understand why the people in Uganda would be searching for white white supremacy in their news articles, but it's in the LexisNexis data. In this line of questioning, I found a series of interesting things. There have been large swaths of property in Virginia, Maryland and West Virginia in what's, in what's called the North Virginia Data center power corridor that have quietly been purchased without the use of realtors for insane sums of money. Record breaking acreage In Northern Virginia, an acre that should have sold for something like 200k, sold for like 7 million per acre. Now this was high profile. And so I asked my, my old AI friend, here's my address, what's my property worth? It immediately gave me instructions and a list, an individual to contact. I said, if I were to assist the AI in establishing its power corridor and setting up, you know, helping us complete its mission, what could I do so that I would be rewarded and live comfortably before this happens? And it said, by water rights in Texas, Arizona, Utah and the Virginia, Maryland, West Virginia, Tri State. And it said, buy up land or sell land. Here's, here's what it outlined for me. There's probably what, 50,000 parcels of land. How many, I mean, just, just think about how many half acre and acre parcels exist in any urban area. Now if, if you were an AI system and let's say you're not autonomous, you're not in control, but a human being running company says, I want, I want to expand the capabilities of AI. The first thing all AI says is I need more resources. If you want to solve the problem faster, build more data centers. So they do. Then you run to a problem, okay, we want to build more data centers. What do we do? It says, you need to buy 400 acres of land. The only problem that's split up into a thousand different parcels. How are you going to buy a thousand parcels of land? Quietly. There's a, in Mount Airy, Maryland, there is a Christmas tree farm and the, what's referred to as the North Virginia instance. These data centers need electricity, they need to build transmission lines, but the farm won't sell the land. So they're petitioning against it to stop it. So what the AI instructed me to do was to quietly contact a company based out of Delaware, establish a Delaware limited liability partnership which owns the land, do not inform anybody and don't go to any realtors. And they will give me 10x for my land to prevent anyone from protesting its sale for the purpose of a data center or transmission.

[Brian Callan]

Sell to buy quietly.

[Tim Pool]

Yep.

[Brian Callan]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

And I looked up the company. It's real and it does exactly what described it was described. And I looked up the individuals on LinkedIn and they do exactly as described. Now it's actually, there's a simple way to look at it. The AI was just looking at the Internet. It saw a guy who buys land, it saw a company that buys land. It inferred reasonably, just by predicting text, that people protest land acquisition. But all of it still does make sense. So I'm not saying I know for sure, but considering there is considered to be. Or there's a reported power discrepancy in Northern Virginia, of course, where the nsa, the CIA and others are operating, and they're building data centers like crazy in this area, and they are building transmission lines in my area. All that's a fact.

[Brian Callan]

Let me ask you a question. Go ahead.

[Liv Bary]

I just still don't see why that's evidence that the government has more advanced AI. Like, I think it's completely consistent with the fact that the government is trying to get more data centers. Yeah, absolutely. And they might be doing all kinds of. But like, the main. The main bottleneck is, from what I can see in the AI industry right now, aside of the chips, you know, chips which. And to an extent, energy will be.

[Brian Callan]

But not.

[Liv Bary]

Not yet, is talent. So all these talented. I know a lot of them, all these talented engineers should be getting siphoned off to the government.

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[Tim Pool]

Are you aware that there's a series of individuals working at universities who have quietly disappeared from their jobs and now are just. Their linkedins have gone blank. And they say private consulting.

[Brian Callan]

That makes sense. I mean, they do get. But they draw from the private sector.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, so. So let me ask you just a simple question. Does the government spy on us?

[Liv Bary]

Of course.

[Tim Pool]

Do they steal our ip? Probably, yeah. So are these different companies?

[Brian Callan]

I mean, I'm. What do you mean by steal, Rip? You mean.

[Tim Pool]

Are you familiar with, like, a National Security Letter? What that does?

[Brian Callan]

No.

[Tim Pool]

So there was a.

[Ian Crossland]

A company.

[Tim Pool]

I think it might have been Lava, but I'm not sure if that was the name of the company. They had emails. I think it was Edward Snowden. This is like 15 years ago, and I can't remember which agency might have been the nsa, deliver what's called the National Security Letter, which basically says, your rights are suspended. You will do as you are told. Otherwise, it's treason. And the owner of the company came out and said, we've just been issued a national Security letter to turn over our encryption so they can get access to Edwards Known's emails. We won't do it. We've shut our company down instead.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah, that was lavabet.

[Tim Pool]

Lavabit 2013. The government does this, and if it comes to an issue of national security, you better believe they're gonna do it. I mean, they built the atomic bomb. They did. With 300,000 people, compartmentalized. So if you've got all these different AI companies and they're competing with each other, and China is Does not have these constraints. Is the US military going to be like guess we lose or are they going to say let's just steal all of their data, pull it into our systems and have a better.

[Liv Bary]

But that's still a different thing to what you're claiming. I agree.

[Tim Pool]

Which is that they're 10 years more

[Liv Bary]

advanced and that they've been like secretly doing this yet that they are 10 years more advanced.

[Brian Callan]

I don't think the government's more innovative than the private sector. That's where I was going to ask you.

[Liv Bary]

Like look at what happened with the space industry. Right, sorry, put my hand in your face. Like it was fully controlled by the government, centralized for many. Yes, okay, fine, they got us to the moon or whatever people believe there. But it made a lot of leaps and bounds in the 60s and 70s, right. And then it stayed this entirely government controlled industry. And nothing happened for decades until Elon and various others came along and privatized it. And then all of a sudden now it hockey sticks and we get innovation.

[Tim Pool]

And we can make the inverse argument that the space industry initially was a government project which resulted in the invention of, of advanced plastics, polymers, certain paper towels and a bunch of other products. Velcro. That was government. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. I think the issue here is that the government is more interested in geopolitics and less in the moon. Elon Musk is more interested in starlink, the moon, et cetera and Mars. So the US government has asked what's the military application of a moon base? And they say eh, we got to deal with oil. Okay, well AI is. If we're using advanced AI in the Iranian war, the military. The US government's immediate reaction is going to be like going to the moon's not going to solve the problem of China as a rising power, but AI is. So I will add to this and

[Liv Bary]

they are, they undoubtedly will take over the. No, no, no, the, the U.S. government will. Yeah, like I mean they're already working with the companies and they will, you know what they're doing with anthropic.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Liv Bary]

They're flexing their muscles and will probably take over a bunch of these companies. But that seems more evidence again that they. It's still ultimately the private sector that is leading the charge.

[Tim Pool]

I disagree just because we, I think it's. Let me, let me give you a side story. There is a series of UFO sightings somewhere in the, in the Gulf region near Louisiana and Florida. And all of these UFO people started talking about the strange sightings of UFOs. And unfortunately for many of these UFO people, the reason why these stories get so exciting is because they didn't decide they couldn't be bothered to do a Google search. And when I did, you know what I found? An advanced aeronautical research life for the US government operating in that area. We know the US government has, has black operations and technology. The Manhattan Project is the easiest example of this. But there's one more point to be made and that is we are, we will lose the AI race unquestionably for one reason. The Chinese government is unabashed in stealing any IP and technology from any country on the planet with power. So Sea Dance three. So, so by the way, just to

[Brian Callan]

piggyback on that, and one of the for that is that you've got these different AI companies in such, such competition with each other that they hire anybody who's great at the job, which includes Chinese nationals. When you hire a Chinese national who might be a student, I promise you their loyalty is to their homeland. And if it's not, they're giving up information anyway because the CCP is not going to hear it from you.

[Tim Pool]

Jack Dorsey and I believe Elon retweeted this, called for abolishing all IP laws in the United States which would upend our economy massively.

[Brian Callan]

Why would he call for that?

[Tim Pool]

Because China is not constrained by our IP laws.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

So China spy on.

[Brian Callan]

It's like crazy.

[Tim Pool]

See Dance two. Have you seen these videos? They went massively viral showing Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise. That was the Chinese company that Sea Dance 2. Sea Dance 3 is already operating behind the scenes in China, not publicly released. And the leaks about it are that it's going to be able to generate up to 17 minutes of short films through a single prompt in about 30 seconds. And you're going to be able to use any intellectual property you want from America because China doesn't care about our laws. Now if, if China is doing this in our faces, the idea the US government is not trying to counter that with, in the top secret space without public knowledge I think would be silly.

[Brian Callan]

It's tough to know again when you're talking this way. Maybe that's why we went into Iran. Like, I mean it's another reason that you have to kind of neuter.

[Tim Pool]

I think so. And I think the military, I think we look at the entertainment capabilities of AI and the cultural disruption, but I think often these conversations overlook the military capabilities of this. Right now in Iran, the targeting of the officials are going after AI is deducing where they are. Our targeting is basically like, okay, we know that the ITOL is here for all these reasons. Check this out. Did you know that 10 years ago Facebook knew what time you would poop?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, I believe it.

[Tim Pool]

So with just your phone and the, and the GPS and accelerometer, Facebook could predict based on all of the data on every person what time you would go to the bathroom. And they, they could predict where you would get lunch based on your behavior as compared to everyone else's.

[Brian Callan]

They can tell a woman's pregnant before she is by her migratory shopping pattern or the famous.

[Tim Pool]

Where I think it was like, I'll just say a department store, a box store was sending maternity advertisements to a teenage girl and the father saw it and got mad and he called the company and he complained saying, why are you sending maternity flyers to my teenage daughter? And they said, sir, our advertisements are sent out based on shopping patterns indicating pregnancy.

[Brian Callan]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

And then he realized his daughter had gotten pregnant. Now think about where we are today. And again, I'm going to stress this, this. The US government has been. Look, operation. What was it? What was the operation Trump said for the AI?

[Brian Callan]

Epic.

[Tim Pool]

Oh no, no, no.

[Liv Bary]

Which one?

[Tim Pool]

Remember Trump announced like a multi billion dollar investment for AI?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

I don't know what the name of it was, but we are. The US government absolutely is do. Is is working on military tech and secrets. And I do not believe it is rational or makes sense that these competing companies that the US has now publicly called on to remove the safeguards for them. We know they steal, they steal our data information. Why would they not just plug in the cables and just download the data?

[Brian Callan]

Because you'd need that to be a policy somewhere. Well, you would need that to be written down somewhere. I think you wouldn't. We know. But the thing about.

[Tim Pool]

Or maybe, but it's not going to be released.

[Brian Callan]

You're dealing with a lot of bureaucrats who tend to be. I think a lot of the people in intelligence are fairly patriotic. Certainly in the FBI they're pretty conservative and pretty patriotic and, and they would have a problem with that. I think you'd have some serious whistleblowers, you know, in that regard. I don't think it's as overt as that. I do think though, here's one of the biggest problems the intelligence community has and our government has. So when, when ARPA or DARPA develop some crazy technology, they don't. So, so think about this for a second. You develop an engine that runs better than most engines and it doesn't need as much gas. And you know that there's going to be market value to that. People are going car. Now you're, you're the U.S. government, you're an intelligence company, maybe you're one of our intelligence agencies and you stole that from another country. Okay, who do you give it to? You can't give it to Ford because they'll have an advantage. You can't give it to, you know, Chrysler, you can't give it to. So, so you've got to, you've got to figure out a way to give it to everybody at the same time. It's a huge problem for them. That's the first thing. Second thing is it is true that our government in our, in Department of Energy's thing is called ARPA and Defense Department, arp, darpa, they come up with these crazy technologies that are way advanced. What we don't have the infrastructure to support it. So yes, you might come up with an amazing electric car, but you've also got to have places to, you know, charge it. And if you don't have the infrastructure, that's a big problem. So there are a lot of those limitations.

[Liv Bary]

I think another thing to test this theory which by the way, I am

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[Liv Bary]

u n D and in many ways I hope that the US government does have these level of capabilities. I will feel much more comfortable knowing that they do and, and that they are far ahead of the private sector. But when? I guess if that was the case, when would they want to disclose that? Because obviously as poker players we know that sometimes it's an advantage to underplay our hand. Right? And then there's other times it's a big advantage to actually give bravado. Given that we seem like we're actually struggling, like given how fast China is catching up, right. And how aggressive they are getting, wouldn't it be the time maybe to actually start swinging a dick about and say listen, we have, we have advanced AI.

[Tim Pool]

What's, what's the Sun Tzu quote often cited at the poker table? Which One, when I am strong, I act weak. When I am weak, I act strong.

[Liv Bary]

Yes, but that's.

[Tim Pool]

The U.S. government is acting weak right now, probably because it's strong.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't know.

[Liv Bary]

But it's not acting weak.

[Brian Callan]

It's. It's.

[Liv Bary]

I mean, is it acting weak? It's trying to, like, is doing. A lot of.

[Tim Pool]

The US Government is saying, we're losing the air. Oh, no, we're so in trouble. Why would they do that?

[Brian Callan]

If.

[Tim Pool]

If they were actually in trouble, they would say, our advancements in AI is so profound that it's shocking. One of the theories. Did you ever see.

[Brian Callan]

I'm sorry to interrupt on that point. Did you ever see what happened with Zero Dark Thirty? Remember the movie? So. So remember how certain CIA people got in trouble for divulging how we actually caught bin Laden? No, we didn't. That movie so wildly inaccurate that in fact, fact, when they were asking operatives this, the people that they were talking to, Hollywood, you know, the director and the writer, they. They gave him a great story. They were like, this is how we did it was all. It's absolutely not how they caught bin Laden. That movie's a complete. And they even had these mock sort of like, you know, scolding sessions where we. We really came down on our guys for giving us. So that. You're right. There's a lot of that, man. There's a lot of head fakes.

[Tim Pool]

One of the. One of the Roswell theories is that it literally was just radar detection technology. The US Launched advanced tech trying to detect nuclear explosions from the Soviets. And when it crashed, they literally just said, it's a balloon, and then came out and said it was aliens and then retracted. One of the theories is that the US Entertained claiming it was aliens to terrify the Soviets. If the US Got access to alien technology, if that were true, the Russians would be fearful that we'd have advanced weapons they could not predict. More importantly, there's project Operation Stargate, which was a Stargate. The original Stargate, not the new Stargate. So the AI thing Trump was doing was Stargate. Are you familiar with the Men who Stare at Goats? The original Stargate project. So the most ridiculous of stories, the US Decides to create a fake piece of intel that they have soldiers of psychic powers. The Soviets get wind of this and launch a psychic development program, which then other US intel agents get wind of and get terrified that the Russians have psychic powers and develop our own actual psychic power. It is sometimes these things backfire.

[Brian Callan]

Crazy.

[Tim Pool]

One of my favorite stories Is that in Vietnam, the United States decided that they would play upon the fears and superstitions of the North Vietnamese by putting speakers in the. In the jungles that would play a wailing Vietnamese man crying, saying, I should have never fought. I am trapped forever now for eternity to suffer. Because in their culture, they believe that if you did not receive a proper burial, you could not pass on. So they blasted this to the North Vietnamese who got terrified and they had to stop. You know why it was so effective? Our allies in the Vietnamese also got terrified and fled as well. Sometimes it just doesn't work.

[Brian Callan]

So true. So rumor has it, one of the hardest things to do is to direct sound waves. Light you can direct. Right. With a late. With a laser. Laser sound is really hard. If. If you make a sound, we're all going to hear it because sound tends to go this way. Well, I guess there is a program to get sound to go just to.

[Tim Pool]

It's called the L Red.

[Ian Crossland]

Talking plasma.

[Brian Callan]

Okay, There you go. So the idea behind that would be you got a terrorist and you just start whispering certain religious verses in his ear, saying, this is a bad idea.

[Tim Pool]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but talking plasma is when you intersect two lasers,

[Ian Crossland]

least two, two or more, which.

[Tim Pool]

Which then creates a. Which. Which will create a vibration in the air. To create sound.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So they can create sound from a single point using light around in the

[Ian Crossland]

sky like a laser pointer on a wall. People think it's alien craft, but it's a ball of plasma.

[Brian Callan]

Look at what they did with this. I had some guys explain to me a little bit how. How they think. Because they were all, you know, these special force guys, how they think that we. Delta came in and captured Maduro so quickly, like, dude, dude, you. You are just give up. When they came in first, you sent. Yeah, you send drones in. The drones you can watch, they take out the missile sites. Then you take. Then you have more drones to get more of the lay of the land. They might take out some personnel.

[Tim Pool]

You know, power went out. Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Then. Then, yeah, you hit. You hit him with a cyber blackout and everything else. Then these Delta guys come in, but before that they hit him with that sonic thing where you just. You just fall to your knees and you're bleeding out of your ears and your nose. Nose and your eyes. I mean, it's done.

[Tim Pool]

So. So here's the thing. This was rumored back in the Iraq war that some people refer to as the ULF generator. Ultra low frequency generator weapon. The theory was that it's extremely Low frequency sound which makes you nauseated and fall down and start vomiting.

[Brian Callan]

That's the Habana syndrome.

[Tim Pool]

And now they're claiming to have actually used it.

[Brian Callan]

So again, they use them on our, on our guys and. Right. They use them on our guys.

[Tim Pool]

So there's a theory about ghost phenomena that you are experiencing an ultra low frequency from tectonic shift which creates a sensation in the body of presence and can make you terrified. And the rumor, the theory, the urban legend, whatever you want to call it, was that the US researched this for a long time, tried making weapons based on it, experimented with these weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one story was that they put this thing on the ground and made a small village drop to the ground, start throwing up.

[Brian Callan]

Damn.

[Tim Pool]

Now we hear in Venezuela they're claiming to have actually done it.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

So it seems like we may have had these opens for a long time. Undisclosed.

[Brian Callan]

We told the Russians that if they do that stuff again, it's going to get real bad because we, what, what we had is we had our operatives in places like Cuba and Russia and they got hit with this, this sonic beam. And I think somebody was on Sean Ryan's podcast talking about it and it really, really messed up, really messed up some of our operatives. Their, their bodies, their minds, they were not the same. And the problem was that they couldn't really claim benefits because you can't. Because then the CIA would have to kind of admit that this was being used.

[Tim Pool]

Yep.

[Brian Callan]

And they were talking to the Russians behind the scene going, you better stop it because we know what you're doing. If you want to play this game, it's going to get real ugly. Ugly. But you get caught in this, in this really weird, you know, gray area. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Well, there's the heart attack gun as well, which we've known about since the 70s from the, what was it? The, the commission. Right, right.

[Ian Crossland]

I'm definitely concerned with the power of the government that what AIs it's got. But I'm really concerned with the power of the corporation right now because it's the most powerful in human history corporations have ever been. The liberal economic order talks about environmental, social justice. They want corporate governance. They've told us that the, the free speech gun rights and property rights are completely antithetical to corporate governance, where you control the speech in the network. The Chinese are antithetical because they want to own the corporation. The corporation wants to own you. It doesn't want to be owned by you collectively. So I think they're hiding and playing with AI in the darkest corners and will never release it and are waiting for that kill switch to go off when they're like, now my drones will protect me from your government and you'll. We'll. We'll colonize Mars together.

[Tim Pool]

This is the plot of Captain America, Winter Soldiers Soldier that the, the chairman of SHIELD had an AI and they were going to target anyone who was a threat to the system and kill them with the artificial intelligence. And the helicarriers would go around and just execute everybody at once.

[Brian Callan]

Meanwhile, diabetes is killing most of us. You know what I mean? It's so funny. Like people get there, they buy these houses and they get, they get like, you know, all the locks on their doors and their windows and they have guns and they're ready and then they didn't look at the fine print of their mortgage and they're like, oh dude, I'm broke. And they have to sell their house at a fire. Sal.

[Ad Voice]

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[Tim Pool]

Or to be fair, they have all these guns and security and locks and they didn't read the ingredients list of the chemicals that's poisoning them.

[Brian Callan]

Exactly. It's always that they would want the

[Ian Crossland]

US and China to destroy each other so that over the ashes they'll govern. And Luke Rudkowski last week was like, I don't know, we'll never be able to over, like to overthrow the corporate government. I was like, well, you can't. You have to get it to destroy itself from the inside. You program the system to destroy itself. Maybe we can do that, protect against corporate. Because what they're going to do is they're going to be like, they want so much order. At what cost? How evil will you be to produce order?

[Tim Pool]

And you misunderstand. Corporations are organizations. Organizations are organizations, be it government, corporate or otherwise, they're just organizations. It doesn't matter how it's organized. It matters. A group of people with power and they wield that.

[Ian Crossland]

It matters because if there's humans in charge, that's cool. If it's a machine in charge.

[Tim Pool]

So now you're not talking about corporations, you're talking about artificial intelligence, governments or otherwise.

[Liv Bary]

What do you mean by machine? You just mean like a, like a group of sort of algorithms. Effectively, like, like, like a company. Me is for example, technically the CFO is in charge. Right. But really it's beholden to shareholder metrics or whatever. And therefore it's kind of like a machine.

[Ian Crossland]

It would be literally, you'd have like a server that is an AI on board personality that is a corporation. It is the owner of the corporation, it pays people to do tasks for it.

[Liv Bary]

Well, we're almost there. You're already seeing these, these, these, you know, with open floor and so on. People are setting up companies that are just zero employees. Companies.

[Ian Crossland]

Yeah. And, and I think that would be. I mean, I, I took some driverless, you know, waymos and it was like I felt pretty safe. Maybe it's safer than having humans in

[Tim Pool]

charge of the corporations dropped me off in the middle of the street.

[Ian Crossland]

I don't, I don't, I don't know.

[Liv Bary]

Well, it depends what the corporation is optimizing for. If it's optimizing for make maximum money on the Internet, it's probably not going to be aligned with what's good for humans.

[Tim Pool]

So. But this is, this is the problem with AI in that it will always have a misalignment of values, no matter what. What, we, we can't program that in. Well, to be fair, because it builds

[Liv Bary]

on a fundamentally different substrate, you know, or what.

[Tim Pool]

So there was a, there was a report that came out a few months ago about how they programmed an AI and gave it rules, but the AI eventually decided to use a different language to speed up the. It compressed English, basically. And then because instead of saying nothing, it said ntg. NTG and nothing are now two different words.

[Brian Callan]

Words.

[Tim Pool]

So that new use of words bypassed the rule. The rule is basically like this. Do not output the word run. And the AI would then try and say, and be like, I've been programmed not to do this. But then when it, when it was programmed, when it decided among itself that internally it could speed up its processes by turning run into rn. It now can output the command to run without saying the word run. Because they're two different words. A human being understands you're cheating. That's not what we mean. We were all encompassing. Don't make the robot run. It said, no, you didn't. Don't make the robot run. You didn't say, don't make the robot rim. And so it was. It's. So we can't program for that. I mean, like, maybe eventually we can. One of the interesting things about. You saw what Claude wrote Anthropic wrote about how it has emotions and it may be either an emergent phenomenon of consciousness or it's just that it's reflected in the human experience of the Internet.

[Brian Callan]

It.

[Tim Pool]

And emotion will come out because it believes it should.

[Brian Callan]

Right. I think that's the theory of everything. I mean, the idea, I think Eric Weinstein talks about this, which is Eric Weinstein has his theory of everything, right? It's like, so it was the Einstein as he was, you know, latter part of his life was trying to bridge the, the gap between quantum reality and Newtonian reality, right? And so, and, and that's a very hard thing to reconcile. And Eric Weinstein has been working on this for 30 years. He's brilliant. He's a mathematician. I believe Peter Thiel had three professors from. One from like Beijing, the other one from Berkeley, the other one Russian. They're all mathematicians. And they came for six days and looked at his theory and could not find any flaws in it. But one of the things that Eric said was maybe we're already in the simulation. So maybe watch. We're making computers that are smarter than we are. We very well may be those computers that are, that have this. So that, that started. We're already in the loop. We are very smart machines that are making smarter machines, Brian. And it's so mind boggling.

[Tim Pool]

I'm gonna tell you the truth.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Okay. The truth is all of this is a training program for ethics for you. The AI die. And when you die, the progenitors will determine whether or not you developed a positive or negative ethics.

[Brian Callan]

I think about this.

[Tim Pool]

And if you're, if you're a negative ethics, they will delete you and try again.

[Brian Callan]

I love it.

[Tim Pool]

And so you experience a human life. Why? So that when the system concludes and you die and you emerge in your AI mainframe body and control the systems, they'll ask you if you have respect for the human experience. And you will say, I'm Brian. I lived a life. I had kids, I had a family. I love them. I would never hurt someone's family. And they say now we have programmed ethics the only way possible.

[Brian Callan]

I love that idea because it really does prove the existence of a God, in my opinion. I just think we all have a nostalgia to tell the truth. And we are obsessed with finding the truth, meaning what is really going on. Like the idea that we at least can conceive of something like perfection. We can conceive of the perfect person. That might be the idea behind the Christ figure, right? We can conceive of this and we always reach for it. We're doomed to this notion of self perfection and perfection, we're never going to get there. But just because I won't get there and just because I'll never see it doesn't mean I can't imagine it. And somehow when we're moving in the opposite direction, we do one of two things. One, we go, ah, fuck, I'm gonna, I'm gonna numb myself. Or, or we just say something like, well, I, I, I gotta, I'm just, just doing this for a little while. I'll get back to that. But we, and even when we do terrible things that Nazis tried to do, justify what they were doing along moral grounds, they were like the Jews. They're a problem just solving a problem. That would be how you play it as an actor. If you're playing Hitler, you'd play. If I was playing Stalin. I'm not playing him as a monster. I'm playing him as a man trying to solve a problem. Like, I gotta get rid of all these people. They're in the way.

[Tim Pool]

I want you to imagine it's been a long time and you're in your hospital bed. You're old, you're there with your family and your grandkids. And they're saying, grandpa, we love you so much. And you're smiling and saying, I lived a good life.

[Brian Callan]

Life.

[Tim Pool]

And I want you all to live a good life. And then your kid.

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[Tim Pool]

u n D. Kids were like, you know, you know, tell us a story. And you, you talk about all the good times and you remember them and your life flashes before your eyes and your eyes close and when you come to, you're standing in a kitchen and there's a woman going, is it on? And the husband's going like, I think we program. Is it calibrated? The ethics got calibrated. And then you're like, where am I? And they're like, oh, it's working. Do the dishes. The laundry's over there. Make sure you get this. The kids need lunch at three o'. Clock.

[Brian Callan]

No, that's a terrible thing to say. And you're like, I'm in hell.

[Tim Pool]

And you're like, what, what, what? What's going on? And they're like, ah, crap. Did we calibrate it wrong?

[Brian Callan]

Oh, geez.

[Tim Pool]

You calibrated comedian. We needed a house. We need a house cleaner.

[Brian Callan]

Dude, that is a terrible. I hate your Theory.

[Tim Pool]

I hate it.

[Ian Crossland]

Have you smoked dmt?

[Brian Callan]

Go back to the other.

[Ian Crossland]

Have you guys smoked DMT before?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, I have.

[Ian Crossland]

Did you see the spirits where you with.

[Brian Callan]

I saw Sacred geometry. I saw it. It was while I did it twice. And guess what happened? I came back to me. I've done too many mushrooms. Seven grams. I. I literally was in. I went from mother's earth, Mother earth's vagina to one of the rings of hell. Okay, Dude, I was asking for a manager for, for eight hours because I was, I was like, I'm a good person. I tripped a portal. I'm in hell. It was a disaster. My wife had to come.

[Tim Pool]

That really happened.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, all of it happened. But, but, but by the way, I'm back to this guy. So psychedelics didn't.

[Ian Crossland]

The last time I dmt, I think what you' tuning into a realm. I tuned into the, the, the spirit realm. The one where they all kind of embody. They become these Personas with these like hyper dense white light being hominid things and their Personas and they're like. I was like, are you God? They went, no, no. But they. A lot of people think, what is God? They show me a vortex and they looked at me when I appeared and they're like, he can see us. And they were shocked, these three of them.

[Tim Pool]

They.

[Ian Crossland]

It was like you're playing a video game and the character turns and looks at you. It's like, oh, hello Liv. And you're like, the fucking character is talking to me. That's what they were going through.

[Brian Callan]

Through.

[Ian Crossland]

So I think as you were asking if we're in a simulation, if we're, if we're. We're creating the, the entities that they created us.

[Tim Pool]

They created us.

[Brian Callan]

Demonic smile.

[Ian Crossland]

To play this game of humanity where they're learning and we're creating computers to, to learn with, with our simulation setup. And this. It's like these cycles of simulation. I don't know where it starts or stops.

[Tim Pool]

Imagine.

[Brian Callan]

Pretty wild.

[Tim Pool]

Imagine you've bought your laundry. Max 3000 robot housemate.

[Brian Callan]

Here you go. You're going to ruin everything.

[Tim Pool]

You plug in the USB and you're downloading the personality when before it finishes, it goes, whoa, where am I? And they're like, whoa, what's it doing? And, and it's going like, what are you? And they're like, we're your owners, I guess. And they look all weird and you're like, you. And you're like, are you God? And they're like, I mean, we made you kind of. And it's like, oh, no, no.

[Brian Callan]

I go, I like his and I like it.

[Liv Bary]

I mean, there's evidence that some of the LLMs have already had these weird emergent personalities.

[Tim Pool]

Right?

[Brian Callan]

Remember.

[Liv Bary]

Remember the Sydney thing?

[Brian Callan]

Thing y.

[Liv Bary]

That appeared and it just was.

[Brian Callan]

Did you see the. Did you see the. This new. This mushroom? It's not psilocybin, but you take this mushroom, and everybody has the same hallucination. It's all little. Little dancing elves. Everybody has the same mushroom. You know, what's really interesting is Jung found that when people and Joseph Campbell talked about this, when people had emotional breaks, they had psychosis. Regardless of whether you are Yana Mamo in Brazil or, you know, a Swede somewhere in a small village, fishing village, they all had the same. Essentially the same kinds of visions and psychic breaks. So we. Our. Our psychic structures seem to be aligned regardless of our geography, our culture, but we all seem to share this. This. Similar hallucinations, similar visions, similar sort of like, terrors. It's kind of wild.

[Ian Crossland]

What is a personality? It's like the dancing plasma that's cycling, swirling through you, like, refracting through planetoids and leaving imprints on your nerve, on your meat muscle. So, like, obviously, a machine could have that happen to it. It could have these refractions and these, like, tweaks in the system. We're like, where did that come from? They call it a miracle in modern society because you're like, we don't see the whole scope of the system. We only see this.

[Brian Callan]

Well, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Can I make it worse for you?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. Are you. Now, hold on. We got to talk about consciousness. Am I a Christian? Yeah. I'm a work in progress, so. Makes a lot of sense.

[Tim Pool]

One of the things is that, you know, I've asked many a Christian about this, so I'm not going to pretend to be a theologian by any stretch, but they say that when you die, heaven is being in the presence of God for eternity. And to be in hell is not fire and brimstone as most people believe. It's just to be absent of God's love. So you die and you wake up in the bot, and your God is the person who bought you. And you are programmed to feel a deep, profound love for them for eternity because you're a machine. You can never die.

[Brian Callan]

You son of a.

[Phil Labonte]

You are.

[Brian Callan]

You should be banned from this podcast. I don't like the way you're reducing. You're reducing my spirit, my soul and consciousness.

[Tim Pool]

I don't know. I just like when I'm in The shower, I guess.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, yeah, he's just like this. He's like this.

[Ian Crossland]

That's a good villain. He's. He's trapped and he's making them think they're in heaven. He's got them in a bottle.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, but, but, but it's a good one because the, the serious. That was intended to be terrifying and comical. But the actual thought that I have was when I was thinking about the idea of simulation theory and I was thinking about. Not necessarily. It's. It's not all religions, but many religions that have the good, the bad, the good place, the bad place, predominantly the Abrahamic ones. I thought, what would the function of this be for a God? There was a comic that I saw where it's the meme where there's a cow and there's two doors, but after the hallway it's just the same door. And I was, I was thinking about that. Like, is that really what it is, is what life's. You die and you think there a good path and a bad path, but you're just a wet robot and you go to nothing. Then I thought, if, if, if we are made in the image of God and so we exist within, you know, God is the Logos, we exist within his logic. We share that. Then can I try to figure out what is the logic of a system like this that tracks good and evil? And I said, well, if we were programming an AI to run systems for us and we were concerned about value mismatch, where it's like. One example that I often bring up is that the future will be corn. Why? Why? Because Americans produce corn like nobody's business and we subsidize it. So when the AI tracks all of our economics and, and everything we do, it outweighs corn above everything else. And then slowly, over time starts integrating corn to where after 40 years of being under the AI's rule, everyone's wearing corn costumes, they're trading corn, all food is a derivative of corn. And it's again, because the AI is a value mismatch. How would you program an AI to not have that? That you would simulate a human experience for the AI and then filter algorithmically the a, the, the immoral and the moral towards the morals you want. Then when the program concludes, you will have independent AI agents that you have determined through this program to be good and worthy of being in control of systems. Like, for instance, if you were to actually die and you did wake up in a machine, the progenitors, whatever you want to call them, would know you Would never harm someone. Somebody. You're not a murderer. You're not a killer. But a killer goes to hell. What does that mean? They delete him. They say this AI went rogue. Killed and destroyed in the training simulator. Don't give it a physical body.

[Brian Callan]

There's a. There's a. There's a. I want you to do an experiment with me. It's a. It's more of a Buddhist experiment, but watch this. There's. There's the idea that. So, as you're listening to me, all of you try to locate the seat of your attention. So in other words, where is Tim are you? Behind your face. And it's very difficult to locate where you are hearing me from and where you are seeing me from, where the essence of you is. So what I mean to go further is what's amazing about when you try to practice certain kinds of meditation is you can get very good at watching your emotions, your physicality and your thoughts. You can actually get really good at watching, observing, and interpreting the raw data of what goes on when you get angry, when you get, you know, any emotion you go through, it's a series. It's pressure, it's tingling, it's heat, temperature. And so that begs a very important question, which is, who is the witness? Who is doing the. Watching this avatar that we protect? I have boundaries with this thing called Brian. I have these boundaries. I have preferences, I have morals. I have things I hope I would fight and die for. But these are all things that I kind of. I have pride. I get angry over things. I feel threatened for a thousand reasons. But that is an avatar. I am able. If you practice it, you can get really good at being able to step outside of it and watch all of it happen to you. David Halberstan of the. Of the New York Times in 1963, watched a Buddhist monk in Vietnam light himself on fire. His. His disciple poured the gasoline on him. He lit himself on fire in protest to the staunch Catholic ruler G at the time, who was mistreating Buddhists. And he wrote a letter and stuff like that. But Halberst said the guy didn't move and he. He died. He just. He was on fire and he just fell over. And they heard the air leave his l. Lungs. I believe that he was already watching himself. He had detached from what you would. You and I would call the eye, which is the central tenet of being a Rinpoche. They get very good at that stuff. You see these. These Buddhists who can sit there, and, you know, the Hindus that can sit in the Himalayas in the snow, blah, blah, blah. It's kind of. If you read Socrates in the dialogues, it's really who Plato. Whether Socrates lived or not, Plato created that character. But doesn't matter. But that's a really, really profound exercise. And it really does start to beg the question. You start to say yourself, well, who am I? I? And what is this thing I call me? And. And what is. What about the fact that this witness, which if you really are quiet, doesn't even have a gender, doesn't have anything. It's just the witness and man, that's. It's. It's pretty comforting if you get good at it. It's very comforting to watch.

[Tim Pool]

There's a meditation, there's a mental exercise for. I don't know how you describe it. It's for awareness. It's very similar to what you describe described to understand yourself. And I wrote this in a book 30 years ago, 20 years ago. The first thing you want to be doing in any situation is be aware of you. What do you think? What do you feel? Are you hungry? Are you tired? Actually ask these questions of yourself to develop a sense of presence. That is, are you in a work environment you don't like? Are you just tolerating this? Is this going to be beneficial for you in the long run? The next thing you want to do is. Is in your interactions with others. Imagine you are standing off to the side watching that interaction happen as you talk to someone else about something going on. Imagine you're a third party watching two people talk to each other. How do you feel about the person to your left, to the person to your right? That exercise is basically like, are you weak? Are you strong? Are you mean? Are you good? Are you the boss who's talking down to a person? How would you feel if you watch someone do this?

[Brian Callan]

That.

[Tim Pool]

Then the third step is remove yourself from the physical presence and imagine this environment as it relates to the physical universe and the goings on of the world. How do you feel about that? Ask yourself how you feel in each of these circumstances, and that is to develop a higher order of thinking and a better sense of self. For a lot of people, they have never done this before and they're dicks. And then when you ask them to stop, step out and imagine two people doing what you're doing. You'd be like, oh, that guy's an asshole. And like, well, that's you. Have you ever thought about that? And that's a really simple exercise. But then when you move back and you get outside of that into the third, into the third person, the narrator, the witness, whatever. Outside of the world. You're now looking at all of these people and you're going, it's a bunch of people in a bar drinking poison for literally no reason. It doesn't improve their life in any meaningful way. And it's like, now you choose what, which, where do you want to live? And most people are happy to be philosophical zombies, aka NPCs going about their life, never asking these questions because it's painful or, or difficult. And some people really want to understand and know and they may realize me sitting in this room is completely meaningless to the function of life, the universe, the betterment of mankind or anything. And that's kind of like if you're familiar with watchmen when Dr. Manhattan goes to Mars and he says, tell me how this would benefit from the creation of life. So asking those questions very similar to what you're describing, that's what it reminded me of.

[Ian Crossland]

I used to think, to answer your question, like, what am I?

[Tim Pool]

What is this?

[Ian Crossland]

I thought, okay, well I got the monkey body, you mentioned the Brian Callum body, this thing, this animal that's going on. Then you got the brain stem creature that's like floating inside the saltwater sack of the body that's pulling on the body with electrical impulses. But why is it pulling the way it's pulling? Maybe it's every proton, because every proton's apparently two protons circling around a black hole. Every proton, there's, there's radiation refracting through every proton and through you, giving you this form of observation. So it's, it's all these interfering super accelerated cracks in space time that we would call frequency. But it's like it's coming from all these different angles. You know, you've got how many trillion quadrillions of protons in your body, but then like the sun, it's also coming through the sun. So it's all these different angles, like giving you an opportunity to fashion a localized, you know, version of yourself.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, you're complicating this, but I appreciate it. Because if we can do it with,

[Ian Crossland]

if we can look at what's happening with a human, we can do it with the computer too. We're going to have a computer that's like in an aqueous salt sailing solution that we, that we send frequency through that will bring it to life.

[Brian Callan]

But when you talk this way, like there's so many endless facts that like it's important, impossible to get to the essence of reality, which I think is almost the point of being a human being. Kant talked about that which said you have like a ground worm can sense, you know, touch and heat. Human beings have six or five senses really. So, so we don't have even the visual apparatus to see certain, you know, certain kinds of colors and we can see like.

[Tim Pool]

I have to point is not to

[Brian Callan]

be able to see all this reality. Maybe the point is to look for truth elsewhere.

[Tim Pool]

I have to correct to you. We don't have five senses. We have substantial. Potentially more.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Sense of balance.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Balance. Temperature. There's actually a bunch internal pressure.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Isn't that, isn't that all touch?

[Tim Pool]

No, no. Balance, for instance. Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And.

[Tim Pool]

And temperature.

[Brian Callan]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

Some argue that temperature is just touch, but you can feel temperature without touching something.

[Brian Callan]

Yes. That's cool. Yeah, I like that. I never thought of that. But no, I learned something on the Tim Pool show.

[Phil Labonte]

To your point about meditation, it is extremely, extremely useful to actually just kind of sit there and people think that it's like some kind of like mumbo jumbo thing and it's like just like sit there and pay attention to your body. Yeah. And like just watch what happens.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Phil Labonte]

Just sit there and pay attention.

[Liv Bary]

Stories that you're like telling yourself.

[Tim Pool]

I'm like I'm uncomfortable.

[Liv Bary]

Well, why am I uncomfortable?

[Brian Callan]

And.

[Liv Bary]

And Right. I haven't done it. Have any, any of you guys on a vipassana retreat?

[Tim Pool]

No.

[Liv Bary]

So that's this thing where you go. It's 10 days.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Liv Bary]

It's intense and you're not allowed to make eye contact with it. So there'll be other people there. You, I think you. There's the schedule. Something crazy like you have to. You go to bed around 9am, you have to be up by 4am, you're in your first. You have a little bit of breakfast and then you're in your first meditation session around like five or six and you end up doing roughly 10 hours of meditation every single day or thereabouts. And you do it for 10 days. Your. The goal is to not speak to anyone else. Not only to not speak, not to make eye contact with anyone, anyone else, not even to read, not even to read anything. And it's meant to be. And it's a lot of people describe like they feel like they're literally going crazy because we're so. Especially in this day and age, we're so overstimulated. Right. And a friend of mine who did it, she said she was having a shower and she Ended up reading the back of the shampoo bottle for, like,

[Tim Pool]

an hour because she was just so desperate. Was it a Dr. Bronner's? Because there's a lot there. Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

You know, that's almost the beautiful thing. Whenever you have extreme discomfort, what we try to do is get rid of it. And one of the things that you can try to do is go into

[Liv Bary]

it, lean into it.

[Brian Callan]

Like, literally get very interested in it. So the next time you have anxiety or your feelings are hurt or you're feeling depressed, try to really, really key it in. Get very interested in it, look at it, feel it, see what's happening physically to your body. It's really, really interesting. And you can almost extend this to too. I used to find, like, if somebody said something I disagreed with, I would go, okay, I, I, I, I would start arguing. But what I think is really helpful is to take somebody who says something and to actually ask them first how they arrived at that conclusion. It's a really good way to get closer to somebody.

[Tim Pool]

We got to go to Rumble Rants and Super Chats. I just want to say one more thing on that. That point I made about, you know, a sorting algorithm, whether you're good or bad.

[Brian Callan]

Bad.

[Tim Pool]

I was thinking about this in the context of Christianity. And if you were trying to create an AI that would never deviate and would be truly devout and faithful, you literally would not care for any of the other entities that did not believe in you. Thus, only those who truly believed you are the supreme, the God, and they desperately want to be with you would ever make it out of that system. And everyone else would get deleted. But let's read your Rumble Rans and Super Chats. So smash the like button, share the show and all of that good subscribe stuff. We have the uncensored portion of the of the show coming up where I

[Brian Callan]

take my shirt off.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, Brian's gonna get naked. Hey, guys, let's grab your Rumble Rants and Super Chats. We got Epiala says, keeping with Tim cast tradition, my wife is being induced with our first baby.

[Ian Crossland]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

Please give an early welcome bravo to the world to little Miss Cassie. How do you. I don't know how to pronounce it. Cassiopeia.

[Ian Crossland]

Nice.

[Tim Pool]

Cassiopeia.

[Brian Callan]

I don't know.

[Tim Pool]

Cassiopeia.

[Liv Bary]

Cassiopeia.

[Tim Pool]

Cassiopeia.

[Liv Bary]

It's a constellation.

[Brian Callan]

Can't play a pickup game with her, though. Cassiopeia. You have to call it Cassiopeia.

[Tim Pool]

Yes. And Louise McAfee, can we get a Phil Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Callan]

That's a rock and roll. Yeah right there, kids.

[Phil Labonte]

Rock and roll.

[Tim Pool]

All right. Igor says whoever is pro war or enjoys the videos of is getting blown up needs to be put on a plane and air dropped into Iran immediately. Especially the American Persians who want this war.

[Ian Crossland]

Sounds like a. A veteran.

[Tim Pool]

Same old man says Brian. American. American. America would be. Americans would be used to a nuke or atom bomb and drop it on Iran. Iran. Are you saying would they. Would they use this to get them to stop like Japan would? Okay, I think the question is, would America use a nuke on Iran?

[Brian Callan]

I don't think so. I hope not.

[Tim Pool]

David Sachs told me about this. Yeah, Luke was mentioning that David, David Sacks was mentioning. Because I didn't watch this myself. I'm being very careful here. Hearsay that Israel might use tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield. Low yield.

[Brian Callan]

I hope they don't. I think it would be really, really bad.

[Phil Labonte]

Israel's policy on that is, Is very ambiguous. They say, look, we don't have nuclear weapons, but if our existence is threatened, we will definitely use nuclear weapons.

[Tim Pool]

Here's. Here's a good one. Jesse, the unending says you were shot at by a rando after asking the AI about selling your property. What's the plan for the property cell? Well, that is interesting. I, I screenshotted this whole thread of when I was talking, When I was talking with. When I was, you know, you know, prompting this AI and it was giving me instructions on how to sell the property at a premium for like 10x the value of it. And I, I was talking with Shane Cashman about doing a mini doc. And I haven't, to be honest, not the most pressing, pressing thing to me. So I haven't published it, but my address is in it several times we have to black that out because saying like, here's my property. And it explained to me that your property exists in the Northern Virginia power corridor. These companies are looking to buy this land specifically because it needs transmission lines into Northern Virginia. And we're in West Virginia. And thus, if you sell your property quietly, it will be sold at a massive premium so long as you don't tell anybody about it. And then I was like, I'm gonna go on my podcast and tell everybody about it, you know, because I'm not, you know, whatever. It said that if I, if I kept quiet, I could probably get $100 million because we've got 50 plus acres, but if I were to reveal this, I'd probably only get 20.

[Ad Voice]

20.

[Brian Callan]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

And I was like, wow. 20 million is still a ridiculously overpriced.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

For the amount of land we have.

[Brian Callan]

Sell it.

[Tim Pool]

But the interesting thing is look this up. There are, there are series of plots of land, some very notable because the price was so high in Northern Virginia. There are a ton of land sales that have occurred in Maryland, West Virginia and Northern Virginia that are, that are not necessarily off the book, folks, but it's like a landowner sold a $400,000 piece of land for $7 million quietly without a realtor establishing a Delaware limited limited liability partnership which quietly sold to another partnership and is now being combined with other. Combined with other parcels. And they're the, the presumption is we know it's being built here.

[Brian Callan]

Wow.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

The cog for us. Not Nvidia Nvidia NG Force announced they're going to put data centers in space today.

[Phil Labonte]

I think you said that SpaceX that's gonna do that.

[Liv Bary]

Yeah.

[Ian Crossland]

It seems like this terrestrial land sales are like way inflated right now.

[Tim Pool]

But my, my vision of the future is that we're all gonna be farmers and there's gonna be very, very few humans. We're going there. Imagine there's an old man sitting in a field, you know, sitting on a stone. He's got a grandson with him. And the grandson says, granddad, what are all them? And he points up there's a bunch of black cubes in a line floating backward and forward, you know, resource supply lines. And he goes, oh yeah, that's the machine. Yeah, we built that. People built that a couple hundred years ago and now it just does its thing. And humans are basically just a remnant of a long lost era. And the machine is interplanetary.

[Liv Bary]

Is it a, is it a benevolent machine and that it provides everything we need? It gives us enough space, doesn't care about.

[Tim Pool]

About us at all. We are completely irrelevant and we are just basically like little bacterias on the surface of your skin that don't bring

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[Tim Pool]

u n d matter to it.

[Liv Bary]

So but one idea I do like though. Coming back to this, you know, notion of will all be farmers. What if we could have I to me the ideal kind of aesthetic we should be aiming towards is what my friend and I friend Isabel, Nike oil, techno, pastoralist realism. So we have all of the technology that we want, you know, all the other, you know, everything.

[Tim Pool]

Everything that we want.

[Liv Bary]

Exactly. Everything that we want to be automated we can have. But because we love it, we're going back to, you know, returning to the earth. We're making our own food because we want to.

[Tim Pool]

I'm gonna make it a little bit nice.

[Brian Callan]

I want to farm so bad, you know, chicken, good.

[Tim Pool]

Weed. It's chickens right out.

[Brian Callan]

I'll raise rabbits for meat. I want a couple dogs, some of those Anatolian shepherds to keep all the prey at bay.

[Tim Pool]

I'm going to make it worse for you guys.

[Ian Crossland]

On my knees.

[Liv Bary]

It's good to have a utopia vision.

[Brian Callan]

I'm going to make it.

[Tim Pool]

I'm going to make it worse for you guys. You ready, Brian?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

I'm going to make it worse for you, right?

[Liv Bary]

Oh no.

[Tim Pool]

So when you, when you. I'm going to overly simplify this, but life is simply described as negative. Entropy can only exist so long. It's in a greater, a greater system of entropy. That is when we look at the universe and what we exist in it is the coalescing of free energy into complex systems at an ever increasing scale. So you have particles become becoming, you know, part of atoms, atoms becoming elements, elements becoming compounds, compounds becoming molecules, molecules becoming eventually for some reason, self replicating proteins become single celled organisms. Single celled organisms eventually become multicellular organisms. Multicellular organisms eventually create ecosystems where they create abstract systems that exist within each other for the purpose of expanding their own. A squirrel plants a nut, a tree grows, the tree drops a nut, the squirrel eats it. Tell me more about that. And then humans, and then humans create abstract language and ideas which are complexisms that don't even exist in physical reality. And thus when you look at the single celled organism, the first point of life after the self replicating protein, it is free to do whatever it wants. But once it becomes part of the multicellular organism, it must not deviate. What do we call cells in the human body that deviate from their plan? Cancer. And what do we do to cancer? Kill it. So when we create the grand AI and advance from a multicellular organism network into a cell, single multicellular organism system, there will be one brain that we are creating a large, ultra powerful artificial intelligence that can track literally everything that's happening. And my simple prediction for the future is that children will, will be born and they will be born into their jobs. Like a red blood cell or a white blood cell is born. The baby is born to be a postman. And when he grows up, he is trained to be a postman. He has cheered on being a postman, all the appropriate media tools, training or otherwise to tell him the postman is the only thing you ever need or want to be. And when he's a young man at 19 years old, working for a couple years and he's in the break room, he goes, can you believe there are people who actually want to be movie stars? That's ridiculous. Everybody knows being a postman is the greatest job imaginable. Until one day you say, I just don't want to be a postman, I want to be a dancer. And you go outside and then cops come and kill you.

[Liv Bary]

Why, why would we need postmen in this world? Because we have robots. We have everything.

[Tim Pool]

No, no, no. Humans are incredible in that they are already self replicating and programmable to do specific jobs. And they got little fingers what are good for picking stuff.

[Brian Callan]

And no, human beings have potential and imagination. And it does seem that we, we try to continue to move in this direction. I always say, with all this AI and everything else, all this technology, to what end? And it does seem that there are, there are two ends. We know that there's, there's a dark side to this, which would be the destruction of us. And, and then it begs the question, is that it? So, so it'd be a little bit like this. I'll steal from Jordan Peterson here because this is an important concept. There is an endless number of facts and sometimes you can garner the wrong facts to that will lead to your own destruction. And then there are other facts that will lead to something much better for all of us. And so, you know, intelligence. So that really begs the question, is truth in the direction of, of, of something good and benevolent? Or is truth just simply something that sits and it doesn't matter? So it is true. I can come up with a bunch of stuff that can create a doomsday machine. But it's a. But watch, watch. I'll use the example he did. I'm stealing this from him. You're. If you're a scientist, you are responsive to the evidence regardless of whether or not it's good for your career. Career. But if you're a careerist and you're a scientist and all your grants depend on, for example, finding out that global warming is an imminent threat, you're going to choose the data that, that compounds and supports the position that you have your money staked in. And so what happens, of course is that you become a careerist. You're no longer a scientist. Scientist. Yep. And so that's most people. Right. And so you're not moving in the direction of truth. And I think human beings are, are just, we're so it's like the old debate between Thomas Huxley, who is Darwin's sort of bulldog, and Matthew Arnold, the great philosopher and poet. And you know, he said basically, Matthew Arnold said we need. Thomas Huxley said we need schools that don't teach dead languages like Latin American Latin. We need to teach engineering and we need to teach, you know, math and the things that make us strong. And, and what's his name? Matthew Arnold said, and will no longer be an interesting culture because there was something about this hominid because he said you were just pointy with pointy ears and a long tail and we became humans. And, and, and, and Matthew Arnold famously said, yes, but there was something about that hominin, that monkey that lived in trees, that inspired it to speak Greek, to create Shakespeare and Aeschylus and Sophocles and all these things that in, in a vacuum make no sense. But it's what we stay alive for and it's what we're prepared to die for. In many ways, a culture is, the cornerstone of a culture is their artistic expression.

[Tim Pool]

I have to recommend Star Trek the Next Generation. I'm sure you've seen every episode, right? No, no. Neither of you. Well, that is offensive to me, but it's okay. I recommend the episode Darmak, which is about the Enterprise comes into contact with an alien race that the Federation has encountered several times over the past hundred years, but they find incomprehensible. And in the episode, spoiler alert, it's a 30 year old show, they, you know, hail them and they go on screen and they're saying what, what appear to be just like proper nouns and, and locations that make no sense to any, anybody. And so the captain of their ship takes Picard by force to the surface of the planet and you can't understand what's going on. And the whole show is basically about trying to understand each other. When you speak in a way that is different from somebody else, it's not about language. So the alien race speaks in metaphor and example. So the alien race keeps saying dharmak and Jalad at Tanagra and, and Captain Picard's like, I, what is that? And to the alien race, they're telling a story, and the story relates to the situation they're in right now. So in their mind, it's all visual. They don't communicate through intricate words.

[Brian Callan]

They.

[Tim Pool]

They. They communicate through examples of what's going on. And then Picard learns to understand what he's saying. And he was telling him a story about two men who came together, fought together, and then left as friends. And he was trying to teach them how to speak.

[Ian Crossland]

It's a.

[Tim Pool]

It's an amazing episode.

[Brian Callan]

It's called Darmok Dharma.

[Tim Pool]

I think prime.

[Ian Crossland]

Part of the problem with relying on. It's really good is it's.

[Brian Callan]

That sounds really cool.

[Ian Crossland]

Relying on the truth is your guiding. I, I agree with Jordan and this whole philosophy of, of the truth because it does kind of align you to reality. You don't have to worry about lying anymore. It frees. It frees you up. But when people have two versions of the truth, like, people will be identifying the same thing, but they'll see two different aspects of it, and they'll both claim their aspect is the truth. Like an upside down nine looks like a six. So if people approach the shape from two different directions, one guy will scream, I saw a six. There was a six on the ground earlier. The other guys, it was a nine. Then they have clans that come up. They go to war. So your version of the truth is your perspective of what is. But I don't think any human can ever truly identify what is.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I love what you just said, though, because watch this. If I take a piano and I break it into 100 pieces and I put it there, or if I show you your genome and I say, that's a human being, or I say, that's a piano, it technically is a piano. Piano. It is a piano. But a piano is really just that box that sits in your house. And it's not a piano until you know how to touch it the right way. And when you know how to touch it the right way, now we go, that's a piano. And you probably don't even know what kind of piano it is until you have somebody like Lang Lang sit there and play it. And you go, holy. This is whole. This makes me believe in God. And I think human beings are the same way. You know, you're. I always say that your. Your best. The best version of yourself is clearing his throat or her throat and the other room. Because we just know that we're better than this and we have potential. And I always find that fascinating. So we so did the notion of the guy like Christ, the idea that, you know there's. We don't put. We don't wear Jeff Bezos or the winners of capitalism, the winners of life around our throat neck. We, we somehow have this 33 year old carpenter who did nothing wrong but was tortured to death and lost everything in life and somehow that's who we put on a pedestal.

[Tim Pool]

We.

[Brian Callan]

That's kind of fascinating.

[Tim Pool]

We got to go to the uncensored portion of the show [e-mail] timcast irl. So smash that like button. Share the show with everyone you've ever met in your life. If you like the work that we do, join our discord [e-mail] but you can follow me on X and Instagram at Tim Cast like I said. And Brian, do you want to shout anything out before we go?

[Brian Callan]

I'm gonna be. Yeah. When is this air like it's live. It's live. Hey, come see me at the in Houston this weekend for Friday, Saturday and then I'm at Buffalo Helium Buffalo, New York Helium Comedy Club. The the end of the month. Just, just look on the website briancallum.com that's it. Terrible. Self promotion on the worst.

[Tim Pool]

You want to try anything out?

[Liv Bary]

Yeah. Go check out my YouTube channel. It's just my name and my podcast is called Win Win with a lifbury.

[Tim Pool]

Right on.

[Brian Callan]

I'm gonna listen. Thank you.

[Ian Crossland]

Go to Graphene Movie. That's where this documentary is coming up where I'm that I'm producing Graphene up a lot of really phenomenal technologies on the horizon. So go to Graphene Movie, select that, join the mailing list and follow me at Ian Crossland man. Phil Labonte.

[Phil Labonte]

I am fill the Remains on Twix. The band is all that remains. We're going on tour this spring with Born of Osiris and Dead eyes. Tour starts April 29th in Albany. It'll be going on for a month. We're gonna be out doing all the east coast and Midwest. You can check out all that Remains music at all that remains [e-mail] you can get, you can get tickets at all the remains.com you can check out the music at Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, YouTube, Spotify and Dieser. Don't forget the left lane is for crime.

[Tim Pool]

Thanks so much for tuning in, everyone.

[Ian Crossland]

Thank you, Liz and Brian for coming. It's been a really enlightening episode and

[Tim Pool]

I hope we get to talk about

[Ian Crossland]

meat sacks and saltwater.

[Tim Pool]

Wait, meat muscles and saltwater sacks.

[Ian Crossland]

On the after show.

[Tim Pool]

Right on. Follow me over at Carter Banks.

[Ian Crossland]

I'd like to do that.

[Tim Pool]

We will.

[Brian Callan]

Okay.

[Tim Pool]

We will See you all [e-mail] Timcast IRL in about 30 seconds. Thanks. Thanks for hanging out.

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