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Trump Says US Will TAKE OVER GAZA & OWN IT, Says Palestinians LEAVE w/Natalie Winters
02:07:25
Trump Says US Will TAKE OVER GAZA & OWN IT, Says Palestinians LEAVE w/Natalie Winters
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- [00:00]
Natalie Winters
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- [00:39]
Tim Pool
About a year and a half ago, Tim Pool, myself and Ian Crosland were having a discussion following the October 7 attack in Israel and Ian came up with the idea that maybe the United States should make gods of the 51st state. Now Tim and myself balked at that idea, but apparently Donald Trump was watching and he thought that was a great idea. Because today Donald Trump has presented the idea of the United States taking possession or taking control of Gaza. So that is an interesting development that I'm sure is going to have plenty of people up in arms. X is considerably apoplectic about that, I guess is a good way to describe it. So we'll talk to that. We'll talk about that tonight. We're going to talk about the FBI has sued the DOJ over unlawful and retaliatory January 6 list. This is not a surprise, but it's something that is going to happen, I think, more regularly. You're going to see more agencies suing the administration trying to prevent the actions of Doge and the president trying to consolidate and downsize the government. We're going to talk about Elon Musk taking aim at Reddit. There's a tweet going around, or a lot of tweets going around from Reddit lies and a few other locations where they just had a slew of really grotesque tweets and comments on Reddit about how they should find the people in Doge. They should go after Elon Musk, his family, his his person, go after the people that are working for Doge. And it's really unfortunate that this is where we're at, but honestly it's not really a surprise from the left. So we'll discuss that. We've got a bunch of tweets about that. Actually, we're going to discuss Delaware. The governor has responded to companies leaving because when Elon Musk had the, I guess the court case, I'm not sure exactly the the way to describe it but there was a court case surrounding Elon Musk compensation package for Tesla and the court, the judge said that it was not legal. And so there's this big, big compensation package that Elon Musk was supposed to get if he did some miraculous things with Tesla stock prices. And when he did, the court stepped in and said well, you can't do that. So we'll talk about that. The new Meta said that exploring incorporating in different states. So that's one of the companies that's looking to leave. Multiple companies are leaving now. So we'll talk about that. And then again us Donald Trump is, is talking about the taking over like relocating all Palestinians, which I don't see how that's going to work. But before we get into that, go buy some coffee cast brew.com you can go buy some of your favorite blends. We're out of Ian's Graphene dream but I believe that they're actually going to have more coming in stock. They talked about ordering more. So you can go, go. I think you can you reserve if you pre order. No, no, there's no pre order. No pre order. So keep checking back. But you can go and still get Appalachian Nights. You can get rise with Roberto Jr. You can get all of your favorites other than Ian's graphine Dream. You can still get two weeks till Christmas which is the brew with me dressed up like Santa Claus in a, I guess a festive design. Then you want to go to head over to timcast.com and join us. Become a member. You'll have access to our members only after show you'll be able to call in. You'll be able to discuss the topics of the day. You'll be able to talk to our guests. You'll be, you'll have access to our Discord which is full of like minded people. There have been marriages in the Discord. There have been pre shows, there have been after shows. There are shows that have, have actually started to get some real significant traction. Roman nations, one of the, the, the standouts in the, that got their start in the discord. So join Timcast.com and become a member. So here tonight to talk about this and a whole lot of other things, we got Natalie Winters. Hi.
- [04:53]
Natalie Winters
Thank you so much for having me back. Always an honor to be with you guys.
- [04:57]
Tim Pool
Who are you and what do you do?
- [04:58]
Natalie Winters
I am Natalie Winters. I am the co host of Stephen K. Bannon's War Room podcast. I always say the best thing on my resume is that I held it down for the four Months he was in prison hosting that show. And just last week, you, you may have seen the articles. I joined as a White House correspondent too, so I have my press pass. So I do a lot of hits and reporting from there. So it's been very, shall we say, eventful just this past week to be there, to be on campus.
- [05:26]
Tim Pool
Awesome. Ian's here.
- [05:27]
Ian Crosland
Hi, everyone. Glad I'm here for the announcement about making Gaza the 51st state. I was kind of saying it as a joke, but in a way it was like, well, what's the least worst outcome here? Because I can't stand seeing the bloodshed. So maybe this will end up turning into something more diplomatic than it seems. We'll see. But we also have the legendary Chris Carr.
- [05:46]
Chris Carr
Yes. Returning show favorite. Thanks for having me tonight, guys.
- [05:49]
Tim Pool
Thank you for coming to hang out. So let's get started. The Daily Mail is reporting Trump says US will take over Gaza Strip with troops if necessary. President Donald Trump outlined an extraordinary new plan for the Middle east on Tuesday with the United States taking control of the war torn Gaza Strip while its Palestinian population is moved to neighboring countries. It's, it is the latest evolution in his plan for rebuilding a territory devastated by Israel. His words will so fear in the Palestinian population. But Trump insists it was time for a new way of thinking. I don't know that other countries, the surrounding countries are going to be receptive to the idea of taking in Palestinians. And the reason I say that is because there have been significant, there have been multiple opportunities where that was, was on the table. You know, getting Palestinians out of Gaza, people that, that are opposed to the Palestinians leaving, they would consider that a genocide. They would say, oh, that, that's part of the genocidal plan. Because if you, if you remove a people from their land, that's, that, that they'll consider that a genocide. I don't know that it's an actual viable option. But Donald Trump is a guy that'll just try some, try some s and see how it goes.
- [07:04]
Ian Crosland
It's an old war tactic. They call it repopulation. If you look up repopulation, I mean, it's, it's literally like something you would do with a defeated population as you would take them and you would ship them off to a different Siberia or something. You'd repopulate the people. And it's a pretty horrible thing to do to people, but, you know, so is blowing them up. And, you know, ultimately I think Trump wants to build hotels. He's probably like, it's a beautiful area. We're going to have the most beautiful Gaza Strip the world's ever seen. All we got to do is move all of palace, all the Palestinians. And I know Egypt is maybe as recent as last week, said they don't want them. So I don't, I don't know.
- [07:40]
Natalie Winters
Nobody wants them. And I certainly think obviously the story's just breaking. And obviously President Trump is the master of the art of the deal. I think like we saw with the tariffs, sometimes the broad, bold proclamations, they're not actually the thing itself. Right. It's sort of a leverage or a mechanism to bring about some other form of change. But I think the only thing that I would certainly stick to my guns on would be absolutely, absolutely zero Palestinian or Gauze and whatever you want to call them, refugees coming in to the United States. And I don't know, maybe we should turn it into what, just the world's largest gas station, the Gaza Strip.
- [08:14]
Tim Pool
I'm in agreement. The United States should not be taking in any, like a McDonald's Gaza. I mean, I don't what I think, no matter what. What do you think, Chris? Do you have, do you have a, have strong opinions on what the u. And whether or not the US should be even involved in the, the situation?
- [08:29]
Chris Carr
Of course not. Of course not. I don't think so. But I mean, this example of Trump being a bloviator, I mean, I think that he's serious about this policy, but I don't know what the details are going to be, and he doesn't give. He's not strong on details up front like this. So I'm curious to see actually how this is going to play out. What does he mean that the US Is going to seize control, that are we going to send in troops and then have the troops forcibly remove Palestinians to countries that don't want them? Like, how is this going to play out? Exactly.
- [08:50]
Natalie Winters
I think it'll be interesting, too, to see how the mainstream media latches on to this. As someone who watches way too much MSNBC as they try to grovel and have this sort of. I actually love it. There's struggle sessions about, you know, how to cover Trump, because I think they recognize the sins sort of of the first administration where the resistance movement was sort of, I think, too overly engaged. Right. Too many protests. They sort of took the bait on every single thing that President Trump did. So there's a conscious effort, if you watch their shows, that they can sort of, they're like, we don't want to take the bait on everything. Right? We're going to cover what he does, not just what he says. So I'm curious if this will sort of, you know, pass muster or be something that. That they will actually want to cover. I think they will, but if they do, then I think that's sort of brilliant. Not that I necessarily think the press over what's going on at USAID is bad. I think most Americans don't want to be sending our tax dollars to broadcast.
- [09:42]
Tim Pool
That's some of the best press for the president and the administration.
- [09:45]
Natalie Winters
But I think that this will sort of, again, it's flooding the Zone. I know the media always says it with a pejorative connotation. I think it was Steve Bannon who sort of originally said that. But flooding the Zone is how you keep these people on their toes in the same way that they're doing with the confirmation hearings. Right. Just jamming these people through. Congrats to Pam Bondi for just through as we are going to air breaking news. So that's what I mean. I feel like these stories are not isolated things. Right. They have, I think, obviously, a geopolitical significance, but there's also sort of an evolving information warfare landscape in terms of like, just flooding the Zone. So I say go for it.
- [10:17]
Tim Pool
Yeah.
- [10:17]
Ian Crosland
They're also flooding it on the weekends, which is kind of new. Elon particularly doesn't want to take weekends off. He said that it's as if you're playing a game against somebody and they just sit out the game for two days a week and you're able to get two days ahead of them. So, like, the zone is flooded come Monday. And, yeah, that. I guess that is kind of what they're doing, is they're just doing as much as they can, as fast as they can.
- [10:42]
Natalie Winters
I think Joe Biden made that very easy for them. Right. There's so many egos that they could overturn. There's so many problems that they needed to fix. But I think also, too, and we'll get into this, I'm sure, with the FBI stuff, but they essentially have no really meaningful form of resistance coming from a governmental perspective perspective. Right. There are no levers or institutions of power that they control. So the concept that they've sort of come up with is both civil society, of which media is sort of a crucial component to that. So that's why I think their sort of conception of how they push back against stories like this, it's so focused on how the media is going to cover it and engage with it, because what are they. I mean, all these Democrats are what, standing on the steps of USAID given these, like, weak, disgusting, groveling, you know, dysgenic statements while they're standing there like, we're going to win. It's like, no groveling on the steps of usaid. How far you guys have fallen.
- [11:33]
Tim Pool
I mean, the reason that they're on the steps of USAID is because they're in such complete disarray. If they actually had, you know, cogent strategy and actually had a, a base that was behind them and all had a, had policies that they were looking to, you know, looking to implement and looking. If they actually had any semblance of power, they wouldn't be just sitting out on the steps saying, oh, we're going to stop Trump. They've really, they've really made it their goal to just be the, the, the resistance almost again, is. It's just if Donald Trump says, we're going to do this or he wants to do this, they're going to automatically say, no, this is a bad thing. They're coming out against, you know, waste, fraud and abuse, essentially. And, and that's never. Like, the American people are. Even, even the waste, fraud and abuse are amorphous and, and really ambiguous frame terms. The, The American people are never against getting rid of waste, fraud and abuse. Those are ubiquitously bad things, according to, you know, the American people.
- [12:32]
Natalie Winters
I think the waste, fraud and abuse paradigm is certainly valid. And obviously we don't want to fund the, what, like transgender musicals and Kazakhstan or.
- [12:41]
Tim Pool
And I think the American people look at that as wasteful.
- [12:43]
Natalie Winters
But I think that the Elon Musk angle, too. I mean, if you look at what he was tweeting about, they sort of started off this whole thing by talking about how USAID was funding the COVID gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. I think there's a much darker and more sinister underbelly to what USAID has been doing. It's not all just woke drag shows. It's frankly trying to destroy the United States. It's weaponizing. Whether it's the censorship stuff, but to the point that you were making, I think about these Democrats sort of standing out there. They went from, what, trying to impeach President Trump every single day. And I would argue that's what they're trying. They're laying the groundwork for being able to impeach him, should they take back the House two years from now. But I also think that why they're so triggered about the USAID removals, if you go Back there's this coalition, it's called Democracy Forward and it's sort of the new like hotbed of Resistance 2.0. It's a collection of 120+ far left activist groups like the Mark Elias types, the Norm Eisens. And the one thing that they did before President Trump was sworn in, they set up an institution called Civil Service Strong. And it was basically like a response crisis network for a lot of civil servants saying that like, hey, this is how you can be a whistleblower, this is how you can sue, this is how you can stay in your job if you're being pushed out. And I think that they really wanted to have effectively embeds right within all these agencies. They wanted to be able to whistleblow, they wanted to be able to leak, using the media as an outlet to do that because that's really their only path for resistance. So that's why they are melting down so intensely over this USAID removal stuff. In part it's about the USAID stuff, but more broadly I think the variable is that they're realizing that they're not even going to have the ability to leak because they're not even going to be inside those rooms.
- [14:26]
Tim Pool
Yeah. So I want to get back to the, this, the situation with, with Gaza and we're going to go to Tim Cast News said President Trump says he sees the US having long term ownership of Gaza. So we get this clip here. Territory.
- [14:42]
Ian Crosland
What authority would allow you to do that? Are you talking about a permanent occupation there? Redevelopment? And Mr. Prime Minister, do you see this idea as a way to expand the boundaries of Israel and to have a longer peace, even though the Israeli people know how important that land is to you and your citizens, just as the space is inherited by the Palestinians as well.
- [15:09]
Tim Pool
I do see a long term ownership position and I see it bringing great stability to that part of the Middle east and maybe the entire Middle East. And everybody I've spoken to, this was not a decision made lightly. Everybody I've spoken to loves the idea of the United States owning that piece of land, developing and creating thousands of jobs with something that will be magnificent in a really magnificent area that nobody would know, nobody can look because all they see is death and destruction and rubble and, and demolished buildings falling all over.
- [15:44]
Natalie Winters
Just a terrible, terrible sight. I've studied it, I've studied this very.
- [15:49]
Tim Pool
Closely over a lot of months and.
- [15:52]
Natalie Winters
I've seen it from every different angle.
- [15:54]
Tim Pool
And it's a very, very dangerous place to be. And it's only going to get Worse. And I think this is an idea.
- [16:01]
Natalie Winters
That'S gotten tremendous, and I'm talking about.
- [16:04]
Tim Pool
From the highest level of leaders, leadership, gotten tremendous praise. And if the United States can help to bring stability and peace in the.
- [16:11]
Natalie Winters
Middle east, we'll do that. Bibi.
- [16:16]
Tim Pool
I mentioned again tonight our three goals. And the third goal is to make sure that Gaza never poses a threat to Israel again. President Trump is taking it to a much higher level. He sees a different, he sees a different future for that piece of land that has been the focus of so much terrorism, so much, so many attacks.
- [16:41]
Ian Crosland
Against us, so many, so many trials and so many tribulations.
- [16:47]
Tim Pool
He has a different idea, and I think it's worth paying attention to this. We're talking about it.
- [16:54]
Ian Crosland
He's exploring it with his people, with his staff.
- [16:57]
Tim Pool
I think it's something that could change history and it's worthwhile really pursuing this avenue. This is a terrible idea as far as I'm concerned.
- [17:07]
Chris Carr
The more he actually talks about it, the more insane it sounds like they.
- [17:10]
Ian Crosland
Would have to have us. If they set it up as a US Territory first, that would be a territory, and then maybe they would vie for statehood if they wanted.
- [17:16]
Tim Pool
I don't think that, I don't think that's actually what they would end up doing. I think that, like, you're not going to make a state in the Middle East. It might be like, you might have US Forces there, but the goal is put US Forces in there, probably get rid of the Palestine Palestinians, move them out to somewhere else, and then eventually have Israel take back the Gaza, the Gaza Strip. That's the, the, that's what I hear them talking about. I don't, I don't. It's not going to be, you're not going to make, you know, you're not going to have the congressman for, or Congress, you know, the senators from Gaza. That's not.
- [17:46]
Ian Crosland
But I tell you, man, it is. The horrible thing about it is if there's American troops there and then there's some sort of attack, like rockets come in from wherever, maybe Iran, so to speak, maybe we think it's like, oh, how lucky for us that we now we get to invade. We have Cassis Bell to go into, like, it's just, what a vulnerability to put Americans right there. That is, like, maddening. Now, the reason I said last year we should make Gaza the 51st state, truly, it was like, what's the least worst outcome for stability? Like, it's like looking at someone that's been suffered a traumatic injury being like we're going to need to amputate their arm. This is the moment when they're like, all right, we do need to amputate. And it's like the blood is draining out of my stomach thinking about, like, we have to do that. Like, accepting that moment of, like, yes, we're gonna have to amputate. Like, it's horrific. And the person getting the news, it's like, but if you don't amputate, the whole body dies.
- [18:40]
Chris Carr
So that's kinda how originally, what Trump said was. Sorry. What he said was finish the job. That's what he told Bibi. You know, I didn't know that. The unspoken part of that was finish the job so we can go in and clean it up and claim that territory and, like, station up in the Middle east and it's permanent and permanently occupied. Like, ownership. I don't understand.
- [18:57]
Ian Crosland
Said ownership.
- [18:58]
Chris Carr
Yeah. He's going to own it.
- [18:59]
Tim Pool
Yeah. I don't see how that in any way is a positive for the United States.
- [19:06]
Chris Carr
Well, he is making bold moves. Like, just since he's taken office, he is. He has, like, really staked his reputation on making bold moves. This is a bold move, and I can appreciate that. But it's also, I think, insane.
- [19:16]
Tim Pool
Yeah. I mean, just like, you know, like, Ian was saying that the idea of having American troops there almost guarantees further war in, in the Middle East.
- [19:26]
Ian Crosland
I tell you, though, in 50 years, it's going to be beautiful.
- [19:28]
Tim Pool
No, it's going to be no more.
- [19:30]
Natalie Winters
Just real much worse.
- [19:31]
Tim Pool
No, that's true.
- [19:32]
Chris Carr
Yeah. I can't get much worse.
- [19:34]
Tim Pool
Look, if. If, if the United States were to do this, it absolutely will lead to war with Iran.
- [19:42]
Chris Carr
And Bibi would love that.
- [19:44]
Tim Pool
Yes, Bibi would love that.
- [19:45]
Chris Carr
Yeah.
- [19:45]
Tim Pool
You know, I don't see anything. I don't see any way around that. Right. Like, the Iranians will fire missiles into Gaza. They'll fire. They fired missiles into Israel already. They'll fire missiles at Americans in Gaza. Americans will die. The United States will look at that. As you know, we're going to retaliate. It likely would happen during Donald Trump's presidency. If, if it does happen and, you know he would retaliate, it is possible that another president would pull them out. But if you set up an American base in there, Presidents don't like to close down American bases. They. They. They don't want to do that at all. So, like, I don't see any kind of sane policy coming out of this. This is the first. This is the first thing that Donald Trump has Done where I'm just like, this is absolutely nuts. And how this could, how this would work.
- [20:42]
Natalie Winters
I just don't know if it's actually about Gaza in the sense of, I think it's sort of like the tariff paradigm, right. It's asserting, I think, United States power, our global hegemony that we haven't for a while. I don't really think that President Trump, who I think it's not necessarily expansionist. I mean, not to go with the mainstream critique of him that he is, you know. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today more, you know, nativist or kind of just folk protectionist here at home. But I think in the same way that he's using this, like how he used the tariffs, right, to get Mexico to put 10,000 Border Patrol agents use the tariffs to get what, $1.9 billion from Canada. I think you guys are taking the bait like the mainstream media. I don't think it's really about this and I think, I'm sure it will resolve itself. I don't think, I mean even, you know, I think I was a little hesitant about Marco Rubio at first, right. Given his kind of neocon past. But I do think that what he was talking about, right, sort of this rules based international order, the idea that we're the world's policemen. I think there's a very firm rejection of that coming from the White House. I mean, we're shutting down fricking usaid. I don't think a same administration that's shutting down USAID is about to start adding or annexing a 51st state. So I would say give it like two days and I think it will resolve this.
- [22:19]
Tim Pool
Yeah, I mean I'm, I'm interested to hear where this goes because so far.
- [22:24]
Natalie Winters
He told Netanyahu too. Like it just seems like Trump just kind of said it, which honestly kind of mad respect telling not just China, Canada, Mexico, but now you're telling Israel like, hey, actually long term ownership, I mean that's extremely bold.
- [22:37]
Chris Carr
Yeah.
- [22:38]
Natalie Winters
For any president. I don't think that historically that's, that's ever been done if you're picking up what I'm putting down. But I mean it's negotiating from a position of strength. And I think it's just something we haven't seen in a while. And it's, it's a narrative shattering, shall we say? Definitely.
- [22:56]
Ian Crosland
What do you think he wants?
- [22:59]
Natalie Winters
I don't know. You're gonna. I guess I'll have to ask President Trump in the briefing room.
- [23:04]
Tim Pool
I mean, that does sound like a pretty good idea, seeing as you're going to be. Going to be in there in the next week or so. Yeah. Make sure you ask him. Hey, what's the end goal here? You look. Just looking to have more resort resorts. Looking for like a Trump Tower in Gaza. Is that the goal?
- [23:21]
Ian Crosland
I think that is what he wants. He wants one in North Korea too. He keeps talking about it. He's like, they have beautiful.
- [23:27]
Natalie Winters
I say we should build a Hooters because I've been told I want dress like a hostess Hooters.
- [23:32]
Tim Pool
That was horrible.
- [23:33]
Natalie Winters
But.
- [23:34]
Chris Carr
Well, maybe it's an extreme ploy to guarantee the bombing stops.
- [23:38]
Ian Crosland
That for sure.
- [23:39]
Tim Pool
I don't even think that that's the bombing's gonna stop, though.
- [23:42]
Chris Carr
But if.
- [23:42]
Natalie Winters
I wonder if the protesters outside the White House are getting more mad or less like what the reaction is to this.
- [23:47]
Chris Carr
I mean, the reactions on X, I'm seeing, I'm seeing like far left socialists. I'm seeing libertarians, and I'm also seeing people that are new to the MAGA movement being very angry about this.
- [23:55]
Ian Crosland
But you're saying he's doing this. This will basically make Israel stop bombing.
- [23:59]
Chris Carr
Yeah. If they're there, if U.S. takes that over, then Israel's not gonna bomb the U.S. so maybe that's the crafty ploy.
- [24:06]
Ian Crosland
That's why I said we need to make it to 50. It was like that was just an extreme way of making Israel stop bombing it.
- [24:11]
Chris Carr
Hey, you, you put it out there, man, and it just like hit him somehow.
- [24:16]
Tim Pool
Unreal.
- [24:16]
Chris Carr
You're responsible for this and then liberate it.
- [24:18]
Ian Crosland
But talking about repopulating the people is like.
- [24:21]
Tim Pool
Well, I mean, you're. You're gonna have to there without. Well, I don't know that you're gonna have to. But the, if you leave the, the people that are in Gaza, the Palestinians that are in Gaza, they're not just going to assimilate. They're not. They don't consider themselves American. They're not going to be Americanized, they're not going to be westernized. They're not going to hate Israel less. I, I think that it's, it's pretty clear that when you do polls of the people of Gaza. They really, really, really hate Israel. And I don't think that having the United States go in is going to make, you know, make them feel differently about Israel or differently about the United States. I, I don't think that there's no way that I could conceive of this being the United States being looked at as liberators or anything. It's, it's, it's, it's definitely, it's definitely, you know, swinging for the fences. All right, so, but we're gonna, I think we're gonna jump to this story now from Newsweek. FBI agents sued DOJ over unlawful and retaliatory January 6th list. So a group of FBI agents brought a class action lawsuit against the Justice Department on Tuesday accusing it of carrying out an unlawful and retaliatory directive from President Donald Trump to purge the bureau of agents who worked on the January 6, 2021 Capitol riot probe in the classified documents investigation into Trump. Newsweek reached out to the White House and Justice Department for comment via email. I think that this goes back to the idea that there seems to be a question, does the executive actually run the, the executive branch or does the bureaucracy run the executive? The president should be, in my opinion, the president should be able to fire whoever he wants, whenever he wants, for whatever reason is as long as they're in the executive branch. Right. If they're in the Justice Department, if they're in the, in the, whatever, if, if the president decides this person is not carrying out the policies and the, the, the prescriptions that I have for the government, then they, the president should be able to fire them. And I think that this might turn into court cases. Obviously they're suing, but I could imagine this going to the Supreme Court. This was the, this was essentially the same kind of argument we discussed when it came to the 14th Amendment thing, when Donald Trump said, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna take a look at the 14th amendment and see if this is actually something that the, the, the founders meant. Can you, can, the, can the people that are, are essentially anchor babies? Is that, was, was that the intent? And it seems like Donald Trump is trying to use the courts to get clarification on these things. What do you guys think?
- [27:19]
Natalie Winters
Well, it's the whole, I think, concept of the unitary executive theory, which is what there's been a lot of back and forth over once they knew President Trump won. But even before it, of course, just in general, what the Supreme Court's been, been doing, of course, the mainstream media depicts it I think they give the limited hangout version where it's like, oh, evil, you know, democratically elected dictator. Trump wants to subsume all three branches of government, but the unitary executive theory paradigm is just the ide that he is the chief magistrate. And I think for so long they've been pushing that the DOJ is an independent entity, which, of course oversees the FBI. So that's why I think even in some of the media coverage of this, they're already sort of starting to invoke that the concept of having an independent, you know, judiciary and the rule of law, it's also important we know it's all complete bs. President Trump will win. And I think there's a lot of brilliant conservative legal minds who've been working kind of preemptively on strengthening and bolstering the unitary executive theory. But I do think you're very right. This is going to end up working itself through the courts, probably all the way up to the Supreme Court or something to that effect.
- [28:19]
Chris Carr
Yeah, this is another one of those things that Trump is doing where it is going to probably wind up at the Supreme Court. They're going to have to make some really difficult decisions about how legal this is, in my opinion. I agree with you. I hope that he does have that power and he can maintain that power, because, you know, I mean, the founding father's vision was to have the checks and balances to keep, you know, to prevent some sort of monarchist taking over the government. But we're at a point now where the bureaucracy is so corrupt and so demented and so obfuscated behind this notion of democracy that you actually need somebody to have monarchist or executive powers. You know, I'd like to see that from Trump.
- [28:52]
Ian Crosland
I've been thinking about that all day, actually, because, like, Doge, this department, doge, it's the U.S. it used to be called USDS, Digital USD Digital Services. Obama started it in 2014, and it's under the executive, and so there's an administrator. And now when Trump took over, he renamed it, and I can't tell if there's even an administrator for the company, but it looks like it's being run by Elon, who's a guy in the private sector who has businesses. And, like, if you're going to head a government department, you've got to quit your job. You're not supposed to. I don't know if you're supposed to. I don't know.
- [29:23]
Tim Pool
There's no law that says you have to quit your job.
- [29:25]
Ian Crosland
They just do it. Then they just do it. And they can't have, they can't control their stock portfolios.
- [29:29]
Tim Pool
He's essentially an advisor to the President.
- [29:32]
Ian Crosland
Yeah, he's not technically the administrator of doge. There isn't one that I can tell. So. But it's like, I'm like, well, sometimes you gotta break the law to do what's right. Like, I'm thinking of when they suspended habeas corpus after the Civil War and they just went full martial law to reinstate order. And that was apparently the right thing. And it's like, whoa. Well, the Constitution was toilet paper for a moment. And like, is that where we're at right now that we need? It's terrifying.
- [29:55]
Chris Carr
Yes. The Constitution is toilet paper. It is. I mean, even today we don't have those rights.
- [30:00]
Ian Crosland
It could go real bad real fast if we, if we treat it like toilet paper, though.
- [30:04]
Tim Pool
So it has been treated like. It's been treated like toilet paper. The idea that the 10th Amendment is in full effect, I think that everyone around the table can, can agree that the 10th Amendment only holds power when the federal government feels like it. And the 10th amendment is pretty clear. Any states not expressly delegated to the federal government are reserved for the states or the people. And that, that expressly delegated means that are specifically said in the Constitution. But the federal government has said, oh well, the, the, the commerce clause and the necessary and proper clause essentially are blanket powers over anything that we want to do. Again, the federal government has taken that to mean that they can regulate and, and pass laws about you like farming on your own property or you growing feed for your animals on your own property. I forget the name of the, the court case, but that was an actual case that went before the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court found that because of the Commerce clause, because this farmer was growing feed for his cattle on his own property, because he was not buying it from the open market, the federal government could actually regulate what he was and was not doing on his own property. That kind of overreach, which it is clearly overreach. There's anyone that, that listens to that, of course they think it's ridiculous. Any normal person. The only people that don't think it's ridiculous are the people that want access to that kind of power. So the, the 10th Amendment is no longer fully functional, then that is, that is, it's been papered over. So just like Chris said, it is toilet paper. Nowadays, the sec, the Second Amendment, it can't get any more clear than you know, shall not be infringed the fourth Amendment. Your, your right to, to be left alone, your person, your papers. The, the police constantly perform what they call civil, civil asset forfeiture, which is they just take your and they just sell it or they'll, they'll auction it off. These things are expressly prohibited by the Bill of Rights, by the, you know, by the second, the fourth Amendment, and they're routinely ignored. So the idea that the Constitution actually prevents things the way that it was intended, that ship sailed a long time.
- [32:27]
Ian Crosland
Ago, it seems like because the bureaucracy has kind of commandeered the government that if you try and play by the rules that they're violating, you're not going to be able to undo the control mechanism that you have to go outside of the rules to do it.
- [32:42]
Chris Carr
It just, I, well, it's actually worse than that, I think. I mean, you've heard of the concept of the cathedral, right?
- [32:48]
Ian Crosland
What is it?
- [32:48]
Chris Carr
So the cathedral is really what runs things. It's this loosely connected affiliation of academia, Hollywood, the federal government, you know, big corporations, big tech, they all sort of tacitly agree because they've all been put through the university system and they know what the appropriate way to act is, the appropriate things to say and not to say. So you have like these giant institutions, many of which are non governmental. They all pretty much agree on the status quo. So that's when you have, when you have the cathedral, then you don't really effectively have the first Amendment because you're self censoring, you know, and you can pay, you can pay big premium prices for saying something that goes against what the cathedral would have you say.
- [33:25]
Natalie Winters
I also just don't buy their performative activism and selective outrage over like Constitution, like, spare me. Right, I'm sorry. The same people, it's like when they're like, oh, the American consumers are going to be screwed by the tariffs. I'm like, you guys lied about inflation for four years. Spare me. But I did just want to bring up one semi unrelated thing too. In a similar vein, one of the attorneys who's, it's like the center for Employment justice, something like that, who's representing, I believe it's nine anonymous agents. While I was driving here, I had gone through her Twitter to see what she had been putting out about just in general maga, you know, and she's tweeted repeatedly about how all of MAGA needs to be fired from the federal government. Quote, america needs industrial strength disinfectant of the MAGA bacteria in our institutions. Clean the wound, Mr. President, fire them all. Quote, if we are to remove Mag at the ballot box and you must, must, must remove MAGA from our institutions, fire Dejoy, fire Flynn, fire Ray. And then my favorite, that she's all saying this to Biden. It is time for the Biden admin to remove MAGA from our government. So the idea that these people are being pushed out over political retribution, it's not President Trump is allowed to have. I know I can't say it, but loyalists and these people are such hypocrites. So I just, I don't even take them at face value. It's like, shut up. You're a bunch of liars. And by the way, what was it? The 5,000 agents of the like 16,000, like upwards of 30% were all weaponized and deputized to do the January 6th stuff. But you know, the January 6th is so critical, right? To their whole regime narrative like that is where they just derive their state power from and they will sue because they have to.
- [35:09]
Tim Pool
I mean they even, they go so far as you know, I mean, everyone's familiar with the, the argument or the, the non argument that it was an insurrection, even though nobody on that day was charged with insurrection. Insurrection is an actual law that you have to, there are qualifications. There are things you have to do to actually be considered to actually have engaged in insurrection. Nobody was charged with insurrection. Donald Trump clearly wasn't engaged in insurrection by telling people that they should, you know, peacefully protest. But yet you still hear that narrative. Donald Trump is an insurrectionist. Donald Trump is an insurrectionist. There were people that were, were saying, you know, right before the inauguration or between when Donald Trump was reelected and when he was inaugurated or January 6, they were saying, oh, we need to have the, the Vice president say that Donald Trump isn't actually the, the, you know, he can't be confirmed because he actually engaged in insurrection. And the 14th amendment says, etc, etc. Making the argument even though they're ignoring the fact that without due process you can't be so be told, be said to have actually engaged in an insurrection. You have to be found guilty of insurrection to have been involved in an insurrection. And he wasn't found guilty of insurrection. So you can't to. The 14th Amendment clearly doesn't apply. But again, they don't care about what the Constitution says. They only care about exercising power. And so they'll use parts of the Constitution to exercise power when they can, if they're allowed to, and they, they'll ignore other parts of the Constitution. So I Do think it's super important to get this stuff in front of the courts. I like the idea of these, these people suing. I like the, I like the idea of the laws being questions and brought to the courts because I think the court will come down and say, look, we have an elected official, Donald Trump. The president is elected by the American people, and he has a platform that he ran on. And the American people said, this is the pot. These are the policies that we prefer as opposed to the other, the other option. And if that's the case, then he needs to have the authority to hire people that will implement the policies that he ran on. And if you have, just like you were saying, the, the, you know, loyalists that you need to have people that are going to carry out the policies because you actually were elected for a reason. If you have people that are obstructing the president, then you actually have people that are obstructing the will of the American people because they voted to have Donald Trump as the president. They want to see the policies that he proposed on the campaign trail. They want to see those put into. Into effect.
- [37:41]
Ian Crosland
Unless. Unless the president goes crazy. And then you need people to be like, hold up there.
- [37:47]
Tim Pool
But that's what the 25th Amendment's for.
- [37:49]
Ian Crosland
Where the VP comes in and takes.
- [37:50]
Tim Pool
Over if the president goes crazy.
- [37:52]
Ian Crosland
The 25th Amendment, if the president and vice president go crazy together, then the people are supposed to be like, stop, we can't let you do this.
- [37:58]
Tim Pool
Well, if you're talking about the people, then you're talking about the Second Amendment. And that's something we should be discussing.
- [38:03]
Ian Crosland
Just, just bureaucrats. This, like, disallowing what, the orders and stuff like that. Like civil disobedience. No, because it is a slippery slope that if you get a dangerous demagogue into the president. I'm not saying that's what's happening, but this is the rationale for why they would. Why they would oppose his will. You know, you don't always want to just bow down to the executive's will because he's the executive. You got to make sure that it's good and right.
- [38:26]
Tim Pool
We have the. The House can impeach if those things are going on. The House has the power to write up articles of impeachment while the president's in office. And the Senate can impeach. You know, the House has to write them up, and then the Senate will try them and see if he actually did violate the law. And if that's the case, there are means the Constitution has means to deal with all the things that you're gonna, that you're talking about. Right? Like the Constitution does provide a means to get rid of a crazy president. President. The, the Constitution has a means to get rid of a lawless president, whether it be the, the, the impeachment or because he's crazy, the 25th Amendment. So the things that you're, you're worried about, it's not good to say, well, let's have the bureaucrats just ignore him. Use the actual Constitution, use the laws that are written in the Constitution, use the process so that way it's legitimate. Because if the, if you're just saying, well, he seems crazy and it's a more expedient to have the bureaucracy just not listen, then you're going to have the next president say, well, I don't have to listen. I'm going to get my people in and we're just going to ignore the law. And you're, you're making the country more lawless. You're making the Constitution more toilet paper. You're only adding to the problem by doing those things. Which is the argument that conservatives usually give. They're like, look, we try to do things the right way because this is the process that works. The left tends to say we want the results and the process is less important. Which is why people on the left will do things like we're discussing. They'll ignore parts of the Constitution sometimes and, and they'll say, oh, this is super important part of the Constitution this time. But next time it's not because they're not worried about the process, because the result is what they're after. But the process matters because if you don't, and that's why like leftist, like you see all kinds of like basket case countries that had socialist governments because they don't care about the process. They only want the result that what they're looking for is the government to just make things happen for the people in the way that they want. And that's not how anything works like that. You can't just magic up results. You have to have a process that works.
- [40:29]
Ian Crosland
So, okay, were you going to say yes?
- [40:32]
Natalie Winters
Well, like to that point I was just like, remember there was Democrats sitting on the steps of USAID demanding we need to shut down the Senate and we are at war. But I do think it is interesting.
- [40:43]
Tim Pool
Because I said that they said we need to shut down the Senate and we're at war.
- [40:47]
Chris Carr
Yeah, yeah. I forget who said that, but yeah, yeah.
- [40:50]
Natalie Winters
I liked it better when Andrew Breitbart said war than some dysgenic Democrat outside of usaid. But I think it, it's an interesting, I think from a narrative perspective, because if you watch, I know I watch a lot of msnbc, but like Jen Psaki yesterday, right, was calling what Elon Musk was doing a quote, unquote, hostile takeover of the United States government. And yes, we can parse out the Elon Musk issue. You know, my show, you know, Steve has been critical of some of the stuff that he's done. We're not like full blown Elon Simps. But I think that that framing of it is sort of interesting. And I think it plays into, I would argue, sort of the color revolution matrix, color revolution theory of the people like Normizen and these people who overseas, whether it was like Ukraine in 2014, but have sort of used certain tactics like the concept of civil society to bring about regime change, and now they're using those same tactics here at home. One of the, like seminal textbooks or just papers that they put out was called the Democracy playbook back in 2019. It came from the Brookings Institution. It was written by Norm Eisen, who played a really intimate role in what happened in Ukraine and the Czech Republic and a bunch of Eastern European countries. They just put out a newly Revised Edition on January 17th. No coincidences, no conspiracies, but talking about how they were sort of cross applying those tactics to prevent democratic backsliding here in the United States. And I just sort of reject the premise that a democratically elected president who's delivering on campaign promises is an autocrat or is an authoritarian. And I think that they're very keen on that messaging because then it gives them the sort of extra constitutional mandate and power to oppose anything that he's doing because he's a dictator, he's an autocrat. If we don't stop this democratic backsliding is happening and the country is going to cease to exist. It gives them their raisin d'etre, their reason to exist. So that's why I just think even this discussion, you can see how it creeps in. You know what I mean? But it's such an interesting, I just think, psychological way to like look at, so he's delivering more or less on campaign promises and occasionally says things that are, I would argue, more art of the deal as opposed to like actual concrete policy. But they view it as like a hostile takeover of the United States government. The American people elected Trump. Elon played a very visible role right on the campaign trail. They said they were gonna create doge. They said they were gonna cut spending. If anything, they haven't cut enough spending. So it's just an interesting framing that. I think if you really look why they're doing it, it's cause they wanna do what they've done to foreign countries in terms of the color revolutions. They want to do that to us here at home.
- [43:34]
Ian Crosland
You said they printed a paper on the 17th of January?
- [43:37]
Natalie Winters
Yeah, it was called. So it's called the Democracy Playbook. It was written by, I think, Jonathan Katz and Norm Eisen out of the Brookings Institution. The first edition, I think, was put out in 2019. The second one was like early 2020 time. And then they put a revised third edition out January 17, 2025. And they go through, like, the seven priorities of how to prevent democratic backsliding in the step one is like securing elections, preserving civil society, having a strong media, basically outlining the resistance. And just on the USAID point, I do think it is very interesting because one of the things that they were advocating for in this paper, and for what it's worth, Norm Eisen was the guy who sued Doge initially within three minutes of the Trump administration. Norm Eisen's State Democracy Defenders Group has collaborated with Mark Zaid, who is one of the lawyers that was behind the first impeachment of President Trump to also sue the FBI. There was a big story in the Huffington Post yesterday about that. So these are like, very key players. They're not just some random people. But I was reading through the report today. We're talking about it on War Room, and USAID is mentioned dozens of times. The report's like 158 pages or whatever. And one of the things that they mentioned was like, in order to have a strong resistance movement, we have to have international partners and allies to push back against President Trump. And so to me, when I hear. When I hear what's going on at usaid, I'm like, you guys wanted to launder a bunch of money to a bunch of international resistance groups in the name of democracy. And that was how you were going to resist President Trump. Because that's what they called for in the Playbook by the same guy who's suing Doge, right? So these are all the same act like this. This is, you know, I know the deep state is a very nice, cutesy term, but like, this is the deep state, right? Like, if there's a face to it, it's actions like this. And they have their finger in the lawsuits and everywhere. But from Just a narrative perspective. And to that point, last thing I know, I'm talking about.
- [45:40]
Tim Pool
That's why you're here.
- [45:43]
Natalie Winters
I've been told, I've been told I'm a DEI hire. No, but, you know, last night, Rachel Maddow does a 25 minute monologue. You would think that she probably would have covered USAID or the confirmation hearings. What does she spend the 25 minutes on? Going on and on about the power and importance of independent and alternative media and how it's under assault and how they're going after NPR and CBS and blah, blah, blah, blah.
- [46:08]
Tim Pool
Those are. She can, she called those independent, which.
- [46:11]
Natalie Winters
I was like, girl, you need to get a dictionary, because that's not independent media. But my point is, it's very curious to me on the day that USAID is getting crippled, which I would argue was going to be the linchpin in funding a lot of these resistance efforts, which was sort of contained to this sector of society that was civil society and media because they have no governmental power. To see Rachel Maddow imploring her audience, go donate to independent media, go support left wing media. It's a, it's an interesting thing, right? Like the timing. So that's why I think they're in such meltdown. And removing these people from these buildings also removes a bunch of sources, right, for msnbc. And by the way, they're still having these inspector generals, all these DOJ people, they're still having them on msnbc, but their chirons are not. You know, this is the role. And I'm leaking. It's like former fired inspector general.
- [46:59]
Tim Pool
Yeah. And there was a long time where they were there, they were just considered leakers or whatever. There is nothing that the establishment, me. Establishment media hates more than losing access. It's one of the things that I've been, I've talked about multiple times. You don't need to have direct payments when you can offer people access inside information and access, because that's that, that if you can, if you have someone in the, you know, high, high up in the bureaucracy's phone number, that's the same thing as having power. If you can call that person and say, look, I need a favor, can you get me information? That, that kind of power, that kind of access is the whole point of money. A lot of times I want to go to this from Tim Cast News. You, Natalie had mentioned they were calling for the shutting down the Senate. So I'm not sure who this, this person is actually talking here, but we can listen to this Shut down the Senate.
- [47:53]
Natalie Winters
Okay.
- [47:54]
Tim Pool
Shut down the Senate. Shut down the Senate. Shut down the Senate. Oh, I hope there's more news. That's right. My name is Sydney Kamlonger Duff, and I am from Los Angeles. And we are still trying to recover from the devastation of the fire across LA County. And I can tell you something for sure. No one elected Elon Musk to make any decisions about getting my county, my city, my state aid to help us rebuild. There is an economic coup happening right.
- [48:39]
Natalie Winters
Here in the treasury and right there.
- [48:42]
Ian Crosland
In Trump's White House.
- [48:43]
Tim Pool
But there's a revolution happening right here on these streets. It's always the same type of phrasing. It is total corruption for an unhinged, unqualified, unvetted billionaire like Elon Musk and his sycophants to come into our treasury to try to take control of our government, to have access to our Social Security numbers, our Social Security payments, our medical benefits, all of the information that we use when we are trying to get a tax return. Pardon my French. And you're gonna take our money.
- [49:41]
Natalie Winters
Homie.
- [49:43]
Tim Pool
Don'T play that living color.
- [49:47]
Ian Crosland
Shout out Damon Wayans in the house.
- [49:49]
Tim Pool
Very good.
- [49:49]
Ian Crosland
I'm gonna blame you for making me for etching that into my brain there, Phil. That woman's voice, it's terrible. Firstly, lady, you use a microphone so you don't have to yell. That's the point. You don't scream into the microphone. You just talk loudly in the microphone. Thank God. Sorry to interrupt. You were saying?
- [50:07]
Tim Pool
That's all right. So this is something that I hear the left talking about. The, The. The scare tact of tactic of saying, oh, Elon Musk is going to go after your Social Security and go after your Medicare and Medicaid. The only thing I have to say to that is, is I hope so, because if the. If the mandatory spending is not addressed, then the federal government is going to become insolvent. As much as everyone loves to use this as a scare tactic, this is what drives the debt. I love what they're doing with Doge. I love the idea of shrinking the bureaucracy. I love returning the power to the elected officials and to the. To the executive, making the bureaucracy smaller because there's less impact that the bureaucracy can have on the average person's life that way. And the. The people that vote for the president and for Congress, they should be the ones that are actually exercising power. And as long as the bureaucracy is just making rules as they see fit, then. Then the people don't have the ability to fire their representative to, to have an, an effect on what laws are created because the laws are created by faceless bureaucrats. But that doesn't change the fact that the thing that drives our debt is Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. Those are the things that make the U.S. insolvent. They could, they could shrink the, the discretionary spending by half and it would not change the long term projections for the US Debt and for our deficit. Like it just wouldn't.
- [51:47]
Ian Crosland
Since 2008, since the financial collapse, they, they were saying Obama kicked the can down the road by bailing out Freddie. Freddie, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, bro.
- [51:55]
Tim Pool
Ronald Reagan kicked the can down the road.
- [51:57]
Ian Crosland
This is like the end of the road. This is where the can is no longer being kicked. This is the moment where they're like, we're gonna stop kicking the can, everyone. And they said it was gonna hurt. So people lose Medicare, like if people lose their Social Security, old people and then they go homeless, like that's the end of the road. Energy.
- [52:13]
Tim Pool
Just, just bear in mind the option, right, is not you get rid of Social Security and Medicare or you don't get rid of it, it's you, you try to fix it and do your best you can to fix it or else the whole country loses it.
- [52:28]
Ian Crosland
So what's Elon doing with it anyway?
- [52:29]
Tim Pool
Well, Elon hasn't actually touched anything. He hasn't done a thing with it. This is all about a scare tactic. The whole thing that she said about bringing up Social Security and stuff like that, it's all scare tactic. And they're saying, oh, he's going to do this, he's going to do that. Because right now the stuff that he's focused on is only the discretionary spending stuff. Like the, even if he were to go after the military budget, right, the military budget's still discretionary spending that doesn't affect the actual long term, you know, forecast for our economic problems. There are people on the left that are always going to say, oh man, we're spending so much money on the military and if we just stop spending money on the military, everything would be fine. That is, that is absolutely false. That is absolutely false. As much as I don't want the US to, to spend money on foreign aid, foreign aid is not going to make the United States go broker the money that we sent to Ukraine. It's not going to make the US Go broke. It is a drop in the bucket compared to the spending that we do on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. And until we fix those policies until we fix those problems. We can, they can holler all they want, but it doesn't change the long term outlook. This is just a scare tactic because they don't want to lose the money that they're getting from discretionary spending from. They're the, the pork that they put into the things that they can, the bills that they can put the garbage stuff into. They don't want to lose that, that slush fund.
- [53:59]
Natalie Winters
So we need Maha.
- [54:00]
Tim Pool
I mean, I love this idea as well. When we, we talked to talk to RFK at the Libertarian Convention, this again.
- [54:09]
Ian Crosland
There'S a third surge playing with my mind. Oh, there's a fourth time.
- [54:12]
Natalie Winters
I mean, to be fair, I would kind of be down to shut down.
- [54:15]
Ian Crosland
The Senate, but exactly shut also.
- [54:18]
Natalie Winters
What does that even mean?
- [54:20]
Ian Crosland
Wait to go more talk more about Maha. You were just bringing up rfk.
- [54:24]
Tim Pool
We talked to RFK at the Libertarian National Convention. I asked him, I said, hey, you know, what is it? What is your plan? Because he was still running for president. He wasn't, he wasn't the, he wasn't on board with Donald Trump yet. I said, so I said to him, look, the biggest problem, the only existential threat that actually faces the United States right now is mandatory spending, is Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. Those are actual existential threats. There is nothing else, in my opinion. Maybe nuclear war is an existential threat, but that's it. That's the only existential threat that we face is the, the, the unfunded liabilities. And so I asked him, I was like, hey, you know, what do you plan to do with, do about these situations? And so he, I don't think that he was quite prepared for the, the question because I think the people don't tend to ask that much because it's such a third rail question. But he did say, he's like, look, we need to make America healthy again. We need to get people off these, this terrible food. We need to make, we need to lower the obesity rate. We need to get rid of, we need to get people that, that are developing. We prevent people that are developing diabetes from developing diabetes. He's, and he's relating all of these, these, these illnesses that people are getting that have, that are unique to our society and to our time. And he's saying these things will actually affect the cost of Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security in the future. And while, while I don't think that's a comprehensive repair or fix, he, there is validity to the argument that the fewer people you have that are sick when they're older because they end up getting onto some kind of. For the rest of your life medication. The better it is for the.
- [56:11]
Natalie Winters
It is funny to me, too, that they're melting down about what unelected people and billionaires controlling the government. Like, have you ever seen a better case of projection? Their entire party is run by billionaires and unelected bureaucrats. I would argue our billionaires are better and our unelected bureaucrats are better. But.
- [56:31]
Tim Pool
But all this stuff, like the entire Joe Biden presidency. Joe Biden was not running. Yeah, he was. Exactly. He was dead. Infuriate.
- [56:38]
Natalie Winters
He could have been. And it really wouldn't have been a different. But I also do think anytime I see, like, what we're talking about how just horrible, right, the status quo is when it comes to all things health care or just fiscally, how irresponsible we are. I remember in 2016 when President Trump controversially, right. He told black people, he was like, you know, what do you have to lose? And I kind of feel like in some ways that approach has now metastasized to, like, every corner of President Trump's approach to this administration. And I think it's very valid, right? It's like, fiscally, what do we have to lose? It's not going well. You don't have the moral superiority or the fiscal solvency superiority to say that. No, no, you gotta stay out of this building. You don't know what you're doing. It's like, actually, you guys have had the keys to the, the kingdom, the castle, for a really long time, and you guys have screwed up for a really long time. Same with the health care stuff. So I, I think it's like, what does America have to lose? I mean, yes, obviously, a lot, but on the other hand, a continuation of what the status quo is also, it's not gonna, doesn't work.
- [57:39]
Tim Pool
Well, the, the continuation of the status quo ends up exactly what she was saying Musk would do, right? She's saying, look, he's going to take away your Social Security, he's going to take away your Medicare, he's going to take away your, your Medicaid. Well, if we continue down the path that we're on, then the US Becomes insolvent and those, those programs end. So they go away. So either way, either there is an attempt to fix it by some administration at some point, and it's going to have to take changes. And I don't, I don't claim to know how to fix it, but either There is an attempt to fix it and there's going to be serious changes or it actually goes away because people stop lending the United States money and the United States. The value of the dollar goes away because people don't believe in the value of the dollar anymore because the US Is like the dollar's backed up by nuclear weapons.
- [58:30]
Ian Crosland
Yeah. Rubio said in five years we're not even talking about tariffs because the US Dollar is not going to have that kind of influence anymore. He said that I think a couple of days ago or yesterday. So, like, we should have at some point a Medicare Medicaid expert in the room because I have questions like how much of the money that we're. Our tax money that we're giving to Medicare and Medicaid end up in pharmaceutical hands or in health insurance company hands, like private industry hands? What percentage of that revenue?
- [58:56]
Tim Pool
All of the. The government doesn't provide health insurance or. I'm sorry, the government doesn't provide health care. The government doesn't provide drugs. The government doesn't provide doctors. The government doesn't provide any of that. It's all the private industry that does that. So the government just pays for it. That's all that universal health, all universal health care would be. Is the government rights the check for people. And if you don't have a market, then that just means that the government pays whatever the, the companies say.
- [59:24]
Ian Crosland
Yeah. How much of it is overspending is over expenditure? That's what I want to know. I want to look at the books and be like, are we, are we spending through Medicare $80 for aspirin? Like, because we just can print the money and it makes everybody rich and then the person gets their free aspirin. Like, that's not good. That needs to be changed. I don't see how that would even hurt the American citizen getting the aspirin. It would just, just, it would just derail the insurance companies or, or the, the medicine companies or something, which obviously. Well, I mean, there's another third rail.
- [59:51]
Tim Pool
You heard at the, at the hearings or the RFK's hearings. You know, everybody that is against RFK was coming down on him. And then if you look at the people that were, that were funding these senators, their candidacies, they were all getting tons of money from pharmaceutical companies.
- [60:12]
Ian Crosland
It shocked me with when Elizabeth Warren expressed concern that if RFK gets in that we're going to, he's going to end up suing vaccine companies. She wants, that was a bad thing.
- [60:22]
Tim Pool
She wants to prevent him from suing any Pharmaceutical company. That's what she was looking for. She wanted a commitment from him that he would not sue any pharmaceutical company for any reason for the next eight years.
- [60:37]
Ian Crosland
Our government needs the ability to sue private companies and they can go to court and they can win the suit. If they're in the right and we sue them, the lawsuit will fail and they will not get anything from them. But it needs, we need that ability. So that was like just mind blowing that those guys are, are pro vaccine companies right now after. I don't know, man. I guess you said they're getting paid.
- [60:58]
Tim Pool
Yeah, well, I mean they all, they all have, have donations from pharmaceuticals.
- [61:03]
Ian Crosland
What you said, Natalie, this is like a lot of projection saying that we're in some sort of economic coup right now. Because it's, it's very plainly. We suffered an economic coup in 1913 and it's been ongoing. The Federal Reserve was an economic coup. They tried to actually stage a real coup when they did the business plot and they wanted to march hundreds of thousands of soldiers on Washington D.C. in 1932, 33 whenever the business plot was like legit. These banksters have been formating a Coup for like 100 years and it's just time that that ends whatever. Not just that, it doesn't just. We need to create something better. We can't just end it. If we end it, it's over. You need to create something better. And that's hopefully that's what's happening. Nothing too big too fast. That's. I'm a little concerned that things happen too big too fast but. Oh, there slowed down. Maybe it is time to do some, some big drastic things. I don't know.
- [61:50]
Natalie Winters
I'm not behind the scenes graphene standard instead of the gold standard.
- [61:54]
Ian Crosland
Yeah, yeah. We're entering the, the carbon age.
- [61:58]
Tim Pool
We're gonna go ahead and jump on to this next, this next story from Newsweek. Elon Musk takes aim at Reddit Elon Musk has taken aim at Reddit after some of his site's moderators introduced on links to X formerly Twitter, in protest over his alleged Nazi salute during an event for President Donald Trump's inauguration. Newsweek has contacted Reddit for comment via email. It comes after the billionaire and self proclaimed free speech absolutist took aim at Wikipedia after The online encyclopedia's 202324 annual report showed 29 of budget had been spent on equity and safety and inclusion. Why does a, a an online encyclopedia need 30% of its budget spent on equity and safety and inclusion?
- [62:44]
Chris Carr
Because it's really that important. That's why, like you have no idea how important it is.
- [62:49]
Tim Pool
Super, super.
- [62:49]
Natalie Winters
Because they're probably hiring a bunch of like unqualified people to do it. So they have to hire like 300 people.
- [62:56]
Tim Pool
I mean it's, it's as, it's about as left wing as you can get.
- [63:00]
Natalie Winters
The, the I think people who want to work in the fields of equity, it's probably self selecting for, shall we say, not the brightest, I imagine. So true.
- [63:11]
Tim Pool
Let's see the part of the reason why. So this is, this is what or Newsweek is saying about the whole situation with Reddit, but the, the actual situation stems from, if I understand correctly, people on Reddit have been trying to attack or advocating people attack the people in Doge attack. Musk himself. Indy 100 says they have broken the law. Reddit page banned after facing criticism from Musk. They go on to say a Reddit page, which Elon Musk called out over threats of violence to staff members at the Department of Government Efficiency has been temporarily banned. Taking to his social media platform, formerly X Twitter, the billionaire reshared a post from the account Reddit Lies, which gathered a number of screenshots from the white people Twitter subreddit, where users called for the public execution of Doge software developers. Some of the screenshots say Muskrats. Doge henchmen have been identified. It's time to do more than dragging names. Let's drag their necks up by a large coil of ropes. Time to hunt. I'll say it these, this Nazi stooge needs to be. I'm not going to say that. And other comments sharing a similar sentiment. This is, this is typical of the left. We saw, we see the way that the imagery and, and comments are made about Donald Trump, whether it be his first, his first time in office, the actual attacks on his or, you know, attacks on his life after, you know, when he was on the campaign trail and this kind of stuff now being thrown about Musk. The left is completely prepared or completely comfortable with making the, with making threats and carrying them out. A lot of people like to blame the right and say the right does this and the right does that. But in the past five years, the number of violent, violent attacks from the, the left, there have, there have to be hundreds and hundreds when you consider the, the 2020 Summer of Riots that that happened. So I mean, this, it shouldn't be something that is normal, but it is something that's become normal.
- [65:33]
Ian Crosland
I'm sort of an absolutist with the First Amendment So like this Reddit's a private company and they can ban whoever they want at any time for any reason, which. Okay, fine. Technically, from what I understand about making threats, if, if it's an imminent threat, meaning that there is a place, a person and a time, then that is illegal. Otherwise, if you say we should go commit the thing against the person, like that's legal. You're allowed to do that, as horrible as it is, like pull up the guy's name and say we should do the violent thing. That's legal. But it's, it can definitely lead towards an incision of the action, which is a problem, obviously. And that's what social media administrators constantly wrestle with, is like, how do we stop this from getting out of hand? You know, these little fires are okay, but the big one, the imminent call to violence.
- [66:23]
Tim Pool
Well, there's, there have been two, you know, there were two attempts on Donald Trump's life. Just this, you know, just last fall or last summer and fall. So this is a real.
- [66:32]
Natalie Winters
Was that no say. I am glad though, that the, the media is really now opposed to censorship. That's a newfound sentiment. I didn't know they were so mad about Reddit communities getting banned. But I think you even see it in that headline that you almost are just add up. But the way that they're framing it, right, is that basically Reddit is cratering to Elon Musk because he dared to expose it. And I think that that's sort of the broader news cycle, which is the idea of what they call it on the left, of anticipatory obedience, where these sort of left wing media outlets are settling with President Trump or all the big tech oligarchs, the overlords, right, are giving in to President Trump and they're sort of bending the knee. And I think that this story, the only reason that they're really covering it is because it's like, look, another tech platform is falling victim to evil oligarchic Elon Musk, which we can debate the legitimacy of that, but I don't think they really care about a Reddit community.
- [67:30]
Tim Pool
No, no, this. For context, I brought up the, the actual Reddit lies post in question. But you know, you can see these are shells. Shall we storm the White House? Storm the White House. Storm the White House. Angry mob enters the White House. Let's storm the White House. These kind of posts are the kind of thing that will get the attention of the Secret Service. Like they will go ahead. And I'm sure that if these, these Redditors if, if they. I'm not sure how Reddit actually, you know, logs people's IPS and stuff like that, but I would not be surprised at all if the Secret Service makes some phone calls and these people get, you know, get a phone call and a visit from the Secret Service, like.
- [68:12]
Ian Crosland
Like a probable cause kind of thing. Because it's not. You can't go arrest someone for saying that on Reddit. I know legally, but, but these are the kind of rooms that Reddit will ban frequently. People that talk like this on Reddit, those, those pages get shut down because they, Reddit doesn't tolerate that kind of crap for the, for the most part. But you think it's reasonable for like the Secret Service or the FBI to put like a bug on someone's phone if they talk like this online?
- [68:37]
Tim Pool
I'm not saying that it's reasonable. I'm saying that's what will happen. I'm not making a call about whether or not they should. I'm saying that they will, they have done that in the past. This is the kind of thing that will get their attention.
- [68:48]
Ian Crosland
I mean, two assassinations, whether or not on the president and then this online, you'd stupid not so.
- [68:52]
Tim Pool
And there are constantly people that are.
- [68:55]
Natalie Winters
Saying they're arresting someone. Like every other day a DCA choose your weapon, trying to kill and then choose your cabinet secretary. It's absolutely insane. But they're doxing like young kids, young boys. The pictures, they're faces. But even too, I forget what media outlet it was, but they put out a long form article too. I think that was sort of the genesis of a lot of this. So it's not just like random, you know, Reddit anonymous account. You know, we love anonymous Redditors, but some legacy media outlet, I forget, but published the story kind of initially doxxing them, which obviously they dox people all the time. But I think the mainstream media also has some blame for this too. Right? They put, they turned the heat on Doge. They've made people think that Doge is like the evil authoritarian like Jen Psaki was just saying, hostile takeover of the United States of America. So of course these people who've drank all the democracy Kool Aid, they can't foment like they were doing during the election season over, oh, we must get Trump. We must get Trump. So now the next best, the next greatest enemy that they can go after, and that's probably more proximal and I think like an actual entity that they think they can probably have a victory against because in their eyes, it's, you know, unconstitutional, it's extra legal. There's all the lawsuits going on right now. They're like very, very focused on Doge. And I think they just have Elon Musk derangement syndrome.
- [70:10]
Tim Pool
Do you think that part of the reason why they're so focused on Doge is because Doge is so, has been so, so quick to act and so successful?
- [70:17]
Natalie Winters
I think the Doge paradigm, I think it's two, two main factors. One, I think it's actually a really smart issue that Republicans have sort of seized and really won on the messaging side of things, such as the waste, fraud and abuse, but also the really evil, sinister, nefarious spending of like, I don't know, funding gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology over in China. That, that's something that the American people don't want to support. You'd be hard pressed to find an American citizen who doesn't want to keep more of their tax dollars, right? So that's a winning issue. So they have to take it away from us somehow. And the way that they do it is by smearing like what we were talking about before, this idea of the democracy playbook, the authoritarian playbook, where they have to sort of reorient Doge through the lens of, oh, it's not actually about cutting government spending or saving you tax dollars. It's about giving Elon Musk and his, his super wealthy buddies more government contracts or getting their tax cuts, which is, it's sort of, I think the newfound iteration of Republicans only represent the rich. They just want to get your tax cuts. And I just, I reject that framing. I personally, again, the Elon Musk issue is complex and you can have that debate, but I think they have to put it in the category of this man is an authoritarian. This man was not democratically elected because it's such a winning issue for us. Right? And like, even too you see it like Democrats are trying to get in on the Doge caucus stuff because they know it's very, like, politically salient. But then the media is like, no, no, no, this is all a scam. It's all a racket to complete President Trump's authoritarian takeover. But again, I reject the premise, I reject the framing. Elon Musk was a, very visible on the campaign trail. B, they've been talking Dozier's, like probably the most tweeted and talked about word the entire election cycle. So it's not like this is something that President Trump is springing on The American people. It's literally what the American people voted for.
- [72:11]
Tim Pool
Yeah, I get the sense that you don't get. You might not even get Donald Trump in the White House again if it were not for the efforts of Elon Musk.
- [72:21]
Natalie Winters
No, I think that that rationale is twofold. One, and again, just because he played an instrumental role, it doesn't mean that he's the shadow president or the shadow. It gives him a voice at the table. Right. Like it does anyone who's played a significant role. But I think one is obviously the ground game in Pennsylvania. And I think his. His mind and the people around him realized that, you know, we're not just gonna waste a bunch of money on ads. It's about knocking on doors. It's our actual mobilizing grassroots.
- [72:47]
Tim Pool
But Scott Pressler. Right.
- [72:48]
Natalie Winters
It's that kind of stuff. But then there's the ideological component, too, which is bringing on the Doge stuff. And again. But I think the Doge stuff is particularly unique because it's not just about the tired trope that Congressional Republicans have been doing for decades, which is, we're gonna cut, you know, the sending $10,000 to fund a musical in Afghanistan. It's like, yes, of course that's bad, but that's not the root of the issue. The root of the issue is that we have a horrible, horrific healthcare system here, and we're subsidizing and bankrolling the pension funds and the public health care systems of the entirety of Europe while they're not giving anything to NATO and we're being forced to pick up the bill. Right. It's an entire reorientation of not just the economy here at home, but internationally. And that's why President Trump's tariffs work so beautifully in that sort of like, you know, Monroe Doctrine esque reversal of the idea that let's use economic warfare, let's use our economic, you know, heavyweight prowess to actually wage war on behalf of the American people and not against the American people like Joe Biden and Democrats and establishment Republicans have been doing for so long.
- [74:01]
Tim Pool
Yeah, you would. You. You. I heard you kind of. Kind of make a. I guess not really a caveat, but question whether Musk is. Is. Is a good thing or a bad thing. Steve Bannon is actually kind of critical.
- [74:16]
Natalie Winters
On a bit of a warpath, shall we say?
- [74:18]
Tim Pool
What was that?
- [74:18]
Natalie Winters
On a little bit of a war path. You saw his interview with the New York Times. Well, look, I think his business, you know, conflicts of interest with China. As a staunch CCP hawk. That's something that I don't particularly like, knowing how China operates, their kind of financial markets and their industries as a tool to influence and kind of infiltrate the United States or people who they're doing business with. So that's, I think, concerning and to some extent, you know, like, I don't necessarily think that we need to be subsidizing Elon Musk's, you know, space adventures. Right. Like, like you were saying, there's issues that are more, I think, important here at home. And frankly, I just sort of reject the transhumanism angle of it too, which isn't just unique to Elon Musk. I think it's just kind of the Silicon Valley ethos. You know, I just think it's a little like, you know, and frankly too, the H1B stuff, we were very staunchly against that. The H1B visas predicated entirely on a lie. We are not a importing the best and brightest at all. Look at the numbers. It's 80% are in the tier one category. They're making less than the 50% wage mark. And even if you set aside the best and brightest, there's no shortage. In the same way that the idea that I know we're on YouTube, I caught myself. But in the same way that a lot of the propaganda that we are fed from Congress is all lobbyist white papers that then presented as factor. Oh well, the Brookings Institution at the Atlantic Council put out a paper, so it must be true. It's all BS to push an agenda. The idea that we even had a shortage of workers, that we need to import a bunch of people from backwards countries that don't even speak English is also completely bogus at face value. We have, I think one in two people who graduate with STEM degrees will never actually work in stem. Now I bring up all those points just to say that the facts are conclusively on our side on the H1B visa debate. So it's not a fact thing, it's an ideology thing. And I think that moment was very clarifying in the sense that they view the goal of I think their movement is to sort of maximize the profits of their companies, their corporations, which is fine for them. It's not necessarily good for the American people. But more acutely, I think that they have sort of an idea where they can like terraform the workforce here in the United States and that citizenship and that American identity doesn't matter because if they think that, oh well, we could maximize productivity by replacing every legacy American with some, you know, Indian Person who doesn't speak English. Well, yeah, you probably. Maybe. I still. I would reject. Reject the, the science on that, that it's going to be better. But yeah, I'm sure you could maybe have a more productive society. But it's not all about productivity. There's something unique about being an American. And I think that moment sort of encapsulates the tension that we have with like the Elon Musk Brigade. But that being said, it's not like Elon Musk is coming in and like commandeering it. Right? He has a seat at the table. Steve Bannon and Bannon World, like, everyone has a seat at the table. The MAGA movement is a very diverse in the Good way tent coalition. So we can have these debates, but I do, I think their framing takes it too far. But you can still criticize Elon Musk.
- [77:34]
Ian Crosland
And we have with the product argument that productivity is not the end goal, that it's not always good just to maximize productivity. We used to joke a friend of mine in college about efficiency. He'd be like, oh, that's very efficient. Like the Nazis, because they were extremely productive and efficient. But you saw what that led to.
- [77:52]
Natalie Winters
Well, it's good that they're being efficient with our tax dollars. Like, yes, that's a paradigm where efficiency matter again, the variable being what they're using it for. Sure. I would argue they're quite efficient at weaponizing the government against us. Like, they had no issue there. They just seem to not be very efficient with actually putting out policies that put the American people first. But I think my just bigger issue more broadly with the whole Elon things in terms of this paradigm of efficiency is just. I don't know. I don't know how to put it, but I just don't. I don't think that the issue at the end of the day when you're looking at what it means to be an American is like, how can we drive the profits of multinational corporations? I would rather live in a town in a community where, okay, maybe my like, doordash driver is not totally automated and a robot's not bringing me food, but at least I know my neighbors. And I'm not like living in a bug pod with a bunch of people from every other country except the United States that doesn't speak English. That again, I would argue they're not even necessarily better at the job that I'm. That I'm doing. And also too, I think to the other point, this idea of efficiency, which again, I'm not a luddite though, Like, I guess, like, I'd be. But what has Silicon Valley become really efficient in? Like, okay, they're now using AI to engage in like, social listening per the World Health Organization so they can censor us more effectively. Like, again, I'm not, not anti technological advancement and development, but I'm so glad that Pfizer has become really efficient in creating more vaccines. I'm so glad that we've become really efficient in what, pandemic prevention? Well, they didn't really do a good job of that a few years ago, so I just think that sometimes we cede a lot of ground to them on the idea that the tech bubble is something that needs to be allowed to flourish freely, which is what Obama did, right? They were like, look, we're not gonna regulate you. You can get away literally with murder. We'll give you all the money you want. Just, hey, don't use that money against us, right? Be our biggest fans. And they, they have been.
- [79:57]
Ian Crosland
Larry Ellison, who's the, well, he's the chairman of Oracle now. He's like one of the founders of Oracle. Fourth richest man in the world on paper. He. He's one of Trump's, you know, three AI advisor guys that they paid 500 billion for. They're paying, you know, this, this, what is it called, Project Stargate, where they're like supercharging the air. He's like, we're going to use AI. Larry Ellison is like, we're going to use AI to, to watch everyone. And so criminals will be afraid to commit crimes and people will be afraid to deviate from doing what's they're supposed to do and like, in the name of efficiency. And I agree with you that like, life and the glory of being human is not about being the most efficient you can be. It's about. A lot of it is about the exploration of reality. Like, you don't.
- [80:39]
Natalie Winters
It's very authoritarian and totalitarian. Like in, in a weird way, like a roundabout way. It's very like, for lack of a word, like Chinese. Like, you're living in ch, right? Like, you're living in your, like, crappy government housing and you're, you know, there's. It's just all dark and gray. Gross. I've been to China, like, and it's. You exist to further the state. There's no independence, there's no autonomy. And frankly too, I, I also think I would take the other angle of, like, this country was founded on the idea of the importance of community and the importance of, of Christianity and Religion and, like, having a. A full life, right? The idea of community was always something that was very, very important. And of course, arts and culture, just look at the American literary can, right? And that's the American experiment and the American experience. So if anyone, Vivek included, wants to go and sort of dictate to us what it means to be an American as more or less, I'm sorry, but like. Like kind of a foreigner. It's like, you don't get to tell us he was born in Ohio, it was the son of immigrants. I'm just saying, like, you know, you don't get to tell people who've been in this country for 200 years, like, what it means to be an American when you're a newer generation American, especially when what you're saying is extremely insulting to the founding principles of this country. And if you want to do that, if you want to go maximize profits and not have sleepovers and just focus on your children being like little bug men who all they care about is, you know, getting good grades so they can, what, go to a really elite institution where they're not going to learn anything and then become a slave at a tech company that would replace them in a second, and they're going to, what, code programs that destroy this country, then, like, fine. I'm not saying go do that in your home country. I'm not trying to go viral, but, like, go do that in a country that has that as their tradition. That's not what this country is about. And I think that's the sort of fundamental tension. And I'm not gonna be lectured by people who I'm not gonna say are less American than I am, but I'm just saying, by people who have a really perverse view of what it means to be American. It's like, it's as offensive as when the DACA dreamers stand up there and like, demand, we're American. You have to give us this. You have to give us citizenship. Excuse me? Like, where do you get off telling me what to do? You're not American.
- [83:03]
Tim Pool
Have you always been a Luddite?
- [83:05]
Natalie Winters
Me? Yes.
- [83:08]
Ian Crosland
Okay, you're referring to Vivek's tweet that kind of got heat at the end of December.
- [83:13]
Natalie Winters
Kind of. Yes.
- [83:14]
Ian Crosland
He wrote that long tweet about basically making children more efficient, making them more, like, business minded in the math and science. And, like, he literally said, less sleepovers on the weekends. More, More. More math class. I don't know how he. How he worded it, and I think maybe not Necessarily go do that in your own country.
- [83:31]
Natalie Winters
Not sleepover Human.
- [83:33]
Ian Crosland
The food.
- [83:34]
Natalie Winters
No.
- [83:34]
Ian Crosland
Cool.
- [83:34]
Natalie Winters
You know, the like math tutoring.
- [83:36]
Ian Crosland
Oh, okay. Like I say, do that in your own family. Like, that's the thing about the United States. If you want to have a family of like math and scientists, do that. And then I could have a family of artists that like take three times longer to get anything done. But that's kind of what makes makes life worth living in a lot of ways. You know, the beautification of things, the wisdom of taking your time and maybe making a mistake. You need to make room for error in systems. If systems always work all the time, they can be heavily utilized to destroy. You need room for corruption in systems. You need failures to happen for gross evil systems to break. Like it's the only way. And I think that's kind of what the arts is. Anyway, I digress.
- [84:21]
Tim Pool
All right, well, I think that we've got time for takes for you guys.
- [84:25]
Ian Crosland
Very hot.
- [84:27]
Tim Pool
Meta. So there have been, there's been a lot of talk about Delaware, Meta has said from the New York Times. Meta said to explore incorporating in a different state. The owner of Facebook and Instagram is incorporating in Delaware, but is is incorporated in Delaware. Excuse me, but is considering a change. Its corporate headquarters will would remain in Silicon Valley, people with knowledge of the matter said. This all stems back to the issue with Tesla. Let's see if they talk about it. Let's see. Meta, the owner of Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp is considering changing where it is incorporated from Delaware to another state. Two people with knowledge of the matter said. The company is looking at Texas and a handful of other states, said the people who are not authorized to speak on confidential discussions. The process is at an early stage and no decision has been made, they added. Meta's corporate headquarters would remain in Melno Park, California. Meta has been going through a corporate overhaul under Mark Zuckerberg, the company's founder and chief executive. Mr. Zuckerberg has spent the last two years making worse force workforce cuts so that the company will operate more quickly and efficiently. More recently, he's aggressively courted President Trump and policymakers in Washington as they set an agenda for issues such as antitrust, trust and artificial intelligence, which will affect the biggest tech firms. So let's see they talk about it. I want to bring up, okay, right here. Last year, Elon Musk's private rocket company SpaceX switched to its incorporation Texas from Delaware. Mr. Musk made the move weeks after a Delaware judge voided his pay package at Tesla. The electric vehicle maker that he leads. That case was brought by Tesla shareholders who were challenging a stock options package that allowed Mr. Musk to acquire 304 million Tesla shares at a preset price if the company achieves certain goals. The judge ruled that Mr. Musk had effectively overseen his own compensation plan, valued at more than 50 billion at the time, with the help of compliant board members. Of course, the New York Times is doing its best to misrepresent what's going on. The, the, the, the goals that, that Tesla had to achieve. When, when they, when Musk presented the idea to the, the shareholders, the goals were ridiculous and no one thought that it was possible. And so Musk was like, I don't want to get paid at all unless we reach these goals. And when they did, everyone, everyone that was a shareholder was massively rich, right? Like, they made a ton of money. They made a massive, you know, massive gain on their investment. And the only people that were against this are people that are actually against Musk ideologically. So there wasn't a lot of people that brought the suit against Musk. If I understand correctly, it was someone that owned a few shares, maybe, you know, maybe a couple hundred shares or something like that, but it wasn't someone that owned, you know, a lot of Tesla stock. And this judge was also a Democrat appointed by, I think, the Obama administration. And essentially it was an ideological situation. And now their Delaware is reaping the, the, the benefits of that, which is people are beginning to leave Delaware. If, if you own a business historically, Delaware has kind of been the place to go and incorporate even. You know, I have a few businesses that were incorporated or that are incorporated in Delaware for the, the band. And now people are leaving because you can't trust the government. One of the things that is absolutely vital for a functioning society is property rights. This kind of, this kind of misjudgment or this kind of judgment against people that knowingly entered into an agreement with, with Musk. The, the shareholders were all. The board was fine with it. But this kind of, you can't, you know, you can't. We're going to declare that this agreement is void because a judge said so. That's the kind of thing that will destroy an economy. And when you see it, or you see it right now, that's why companies are leaving. And granted, these companies aren't doing considerable business in Delaware, but no one's going to be going to Delaware to say, hey, we want to go in there and, and set up our business there. This is the Same kind of thing that Mr. Wonderful. Kevin Leary, I think is his name.
- [88:54]
Chris Carr
Yeah, yeah.
- [88:54]
Tim Pool
He was warning about when it came to the Mar A Lago case in New York. If your property. If you cannot rely on the government to treat your property fairly and adjudicate disagreements fairly, people will not do business. And this is why socialist countries that don't respect property rights, this is why they get into economic downward spirals. Because if you don't respect people's property rights, if the government just takes your property for no reason, dictators do this too. Then nobody that has any kind of money or any kind of value is going to put that money into your country or into your jurisdiction because it's not safe. People don't want to invest in an area if they know that they're likely to lose the investment.
- [89:43]
Ian Crosland
You know, I like that you like in property. You will use the word property. It's not just about land and houses and cars.
- [89:48]
Tim Pool
No, not at all.
- [89:49]
Ian Crosland
Money, like your, your assets.
- [89:51]
Tim Pool
Oh, yeah.
- [89:52]
Ian Crosland
That's a type of property.
- [89:53]
Tim Pool
Every. Yeah. I mean, so like from my perspective, like everything is about property, right? So your body is your property. So your, your future is your property. The past that you lived, the things that you own are physical manifestation of things that you did in the past. So that's how, that's what property comes from. Your. Your future. If someone murders you, they take your property because they take your future. If someone takes you and kidnaps you and throws you in jail, they take your present, which is also your property. Property. If people expropriate things that you have earned and worked for, they're taking your past. These are all manifestation. Manifestations in physical reality of your property. They're, they're. They're manifestations of your life. So that's how to me, that's how property, you know, that's how I work out property.
- [90:39]
Ian Crosland
I've heard that the places to incorporate are Texas and Nevada. Is that right? Nevada? I'm not sure we're talking highly of it. I think definitely Texas. For whatever reason, I haven't looked into the corporate law there. I thought Wyoming looked kind of promising for crypto laws, but that was like five years ago. I don't know how that's evolved in the last five years. I don't know. I don't have a lot to.
- [91:05]
Tim Pool
What do you.
- [91:05]
Ian Crosland
I don't have a lot to say about this story except good for Mark. I'm glad that, that they're. They're waking up or at least they're taking, Taking charge and Control and getting out of Delaware. I guess Delaware's so 1980s.
- [91:18]
Tim Pool
I mean I just think it's a cautionary tale to, to anyone that would, anyone that has a left leaning economic in like an emotional affinity to left leaning economics. There are reasons why things like property rights are vital for functioning societies. And if you don't have secure property rights, you are not going to have a functioning society. You see it in, I mean you see it in all the people that are, that have moved out of California. Like if you have a business and people go and they steal your stuff and the government doesn't do anything about it, businesses leave because their property rights are not protected by the government. Property rights are the foundation of, of Western society. People oftentimes don't think about them or give, give them the credit they deserve. But if you don't, if your government doesn't secure property rights, your society will fall, your society will not stand for long. It'll turn into an absolute mess. And that's part of the reason why there are so many basket case countries in, in all over the world. Because dictatorships don't respect property rights. They're like, well this is, it's, it's my kingdom or it's mine. And so I'm going to take this if I feel like it. And you end up with dictatorships that are, that are just, just, they have horrible economies. You know, it's, it's, it's not pretty what happens when you have a government that doesn't respect property rights. And it's, it is an innovation. We were talking about the Magna Carta the other night, but that was one of the things in the Magna Carta that the Englishman demanded the king secure the right of property, the right to say this is yours. And I'm not going to take it just because I'm the king and I want it. You know, Englishmen, that was an innovation and it was something that made for Western society as we know it. Yeah.
- [93:14]
Ian Crosland
When you were saying the king can take all the property, I thought of Saudi Arabia and how. But then I thought of England and I was like, it's a different kind of king, that is a different kind of monarchy.
- [93:22]
Tim Pool
The kingdom in Saudi Arabia, they could, they don't, but they could because they, they don't because they know what happens. They know that it'll destroy society. But also there's so much money because of oil in Saudi Arabia like it.
- [93:37]
Ian Crosland
Is apparently the, the royal family is worth 1.4 trillion on, on the books. And that's like 15000 people. Either 1500 or 15, 000. I don't want to get that, that magnitude wrong.
- [93:48]
Tim Pool
A lot of princes, 1.4 trillion.
- [93:50]
Ian Crosland
And the king's only worth like 3 billion or 6 billion on paper. I think the king can take the money from his family if he really wants to.
- [93:58]
Tim Pool
If I understand correctly, and I, I'm not an expert on Saudi Arabia, but if I understand correctly, he does have like, like ultimate authority in Saudi Arabia. If he says, put that man to death, that man gets there, you know, that's, that happens. If I understand, I could be wrong. I don't know a lot about Saudi Arabia, but it's a, it's a place where, you know, if you cross the wrong person, you're gonna have a bad time.
- [94:21]
Natalie Winters
You know, he killed the one thing they had going for them, which was no women driving. But to that, to that point, I do think this story is interesting. Much like you're focusing on, like the property protection angle. I also think it's just in general, like the rule of law. Right. The continued weaponization of the legal system. And I think there's a strong parallel when a lot of people were fed up with what New York. Right. Was doing to President Trump and people were kind of like, we're over it. We don't want to be here. It's basically the same thing, which is the perversion. Right. Of courts, whether it's against President Trump, against various companies. And I think President Trump kind of like he stood up to it, right. He represented like, actually you can push back. You don't have to. To take it. So it's from, from the tech bros. So I think are usually a little, a little weak. It's nice to see them standing up or at least trying to.
- [95:16]
Tim Pool
All right, well, we're gonna go to super chats, I think. Smash the like button. Share the show with your friends. Go to timcast.com become a member. We would love to have you. Schlip says. Did you see that? Mississippi federal court ruled the federal machine gun ban unconstitutional. It is applied. So don't go do anything stupid yet. Apparently that is not only. That's not the first one. That's the second one, the second machine gun case that has been con. Ruled unconstitutional under the Bruin. The Bruin finding. It is definitely going to be an issue. If you think, oh, I'll just go ahead and I'll make my machine gun myself, like that is going to be illegal. You are going to get in trouble. But these kind of precedents possibly could lead to the repeal of the Hughes Amendment from the Sportsman whatever. The Sportsman Protection act of 1986 which Ronald Reagan so callously signed and took away our right to own new machine guns. So yes, I did see it. That's a great thing. And hopefully they will rethink the prohibition on machine guns because right now, you know, all over Chicago there are crazy criminals with Glocks that are fully automatic, just rip roaring. And I want a fully automatic Glock but I can't have one because I follow the law, which is what I have to do Anyways. Shane H. Wilder says hey guys, can I get some prayers? My priest passed away last week. His vigil is tomorrow night and funeral is Thursday. Thank you all and God bless. Yeah, so if I didn't hear that man, if you are a praying kind of person. Shane H. Wilder is a, a regular con, you know, regular viewer and very active in the discord and he actually is, is regularly popping into pcc.
- [97:14]
Chris Carr
So he's got a great X account too. Check him out, follow him.
- [97:16]
Tim Pool
Yeah, you should give him a, give him a. Follow Shane H. Wilder on X. And yeah, if you got some prayers, share them. Not a bot says have you guys looked into the Moss Landing fire? Renewable energy just had their Three Mile island event. I have not. Does anyone know anything about that?
- [97:34]
Chris Carr
I haven't heard of that. Done.
- [97:35]
Tim Pool
I have not. I don't know anything about this at all. So yeah, unfortunately we'll have to look into that. Okay. Milo Hoffman says Nick Fuentes is more right every night than anyone on IRL has been all year. Serge, I don't know why you do.
- [97:57]
Ian Crosland
This Serge, Although here's the Moss Landing fire is the Vista Maslining Vista power plant in Monterey County, California began on January 16th and burned for several days. I don't know a lot about it.
- [98:15]
Tim Pool
Alex Van Roy said Pam Bondi just got confirmed for US Attorney Attorney General lfg.
- [98:21]
Ian Crosland
Yes and RFK was got through his first round of confirmation and so did Tulsi.
- [98:27]
Chris Carr
Yep, very good. Promising.
- [98:31]
Tim Pool
Just cuz I'm free says remember Trump is famous for the big ass before negotiations next there will be a peace deal between Palestine and Israel. Ah look man, I know that Trump is famous for the big ask but I don't know that there's going to be a two state solution. I don't think the Palestinians want a two state solution. I don'T think Israel wants a two state solution. I would like to be proven wrong. Does anyone have some input on that one?
- [99:01]
Ian Crosland
They they the old Palestinian government before Hamas wanted a two state solution. I think it was Yasser. Was it Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian liberation organ of the plo?
- [99:12]
Tim Pool
Yeah.
- [99:12]
Ian Crosland
And then they were kind of. Then apparently, as the news dictates, the Israelis propped up Hamas to fight against the plo and then they create a division within that entity that wanted the two state solution and then Hamas won out and they no longer wanted the two state solution, which played into the hands of the Israelis who also didn't want one, and now they're able to take it over. That's the way that the pro Palestine story goes.
- [99:38]
Tim Pool
Well, I think that, I think that Hamas, the sentiment that Hamas has about not wanting a two state solution, I think that that is, is something that existed before Israel kind of fed the fire. That was Hamas.
- [99:54]
Ian Crosland
Yeah, I think so too.
- [99:55]
Tim Pool
Yeah, they had, there have been a lot of attempts to get the, to figure it out. And, and whether it be the Camp David Accords or whether it be. I think it was the 90s. I forget what it was, what it was in the 90s when, when President Clinton had multiple people. I, I don't, I think it was Yasra Arafat, but I'm not sure who was the Israeli prime minister at the time. But there's been multiple attempts and something always falls through and then both sides point the finger at each other and say, it's your fault. No, it's your fault. So, but there's, there's regularly, there are regularly factions on both sides that don't want a two state solution and they tend to mess it up for everybody.
- [100:36]
Ian Crosland
So it's going to be a 51st state solution?
- [100:38]
Tim Pool
I don't think so.
- [100:40]
Ian Crosland
It's such a gross thing to joke about. I didn't like joking about it.
- [100:44]
Tim Pool
Steve Hutton says, imagine being Puerto Rico and Gaza becomes the 51st state or D.C. i, D.C. definitely should not be a state. Absolutely not.
- [100:55]
Natalie Winters
As a D.C. resident, I confirm it should not. Worst people live there.
- [101:00]
Tim Pool
It should not be. Lurch685 says, how is giving Israel everything they want new thinking and not the status quo?
- [101:09]
Chris Carr
Well, there's an angle that I'm seeing on X right now of Netanyahu listening to Trump say that he wants to own Gaza and he doesn't really look happy. He might be. People are saying that maybe Trump was negotiating in real time with the big ask technique.
- [101:25]
Ian Crosland
Live.
- [101:26]
Chris Carr
Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think that this is. That what Trump said is what they're asking for. I think that maybe even Netanyahu was surprised by this and he did Say something to the effect of that. He just said something bigger. That's way bigger.
- [101:40]
Tim Pool
Yes. You know, yes, he did.
- [101:41]
Chris Carr
So. Yeah, I don't think Israel wants this.
- [101:44]
Tim Pool
I mean, I hope you're right, because I don't want it. I don't want to see the U. S getting, getting involved in that. Like, I mean, it's bad enough that we're, we're sending money to Israel for their, their war, especially when Israel can, Israel can fund itself. It doesn't need the United States to, to pay for its, you know, pay for its defense or whatever. So I, I definitely don't want to see, you know, American troops over there. Jeremy B. Says, screw you, Daily Mail. Natalie has the right to bear arms. E A R E. Yes. No, I. The thing that bummed me out, Kennedy.
- [102:20]
Natalie Winters
At least Hooters would hire me.
- [102:21]
Tim Pool
See, that's the thing that bums me out is like, I think like, Kennedy is, is better than that. Like, I've had interactions with Kennedy and I was disgusting.
- [102:30]
Natalie Winters
I mean, it was really bad.
- [102:31]
Tim Pool
I was bummed.
- [102:33]
Natalie Winters
Taking the vapid out of it. Like, first of all, that was like three days after the initial story had come out. It had blown over. Also, I'm sorry. This news cycle is so intense. There's so many things to cover. And you're going to waste your weekly, bi weekly, monthly op ed in the Daily Mail to say that. Myself for wearing a literal black sweater up to my neck with a white collar. Like, I looked very preppy turtleneck.
- [103:01]
Tim Pool
Right.
- [103:01]
Natalie Winters
I was dressing like a hostess at Hooters. And then she refers to herself in the piece as, as a fellow, like, hot journalist. And I swear to God, in the piece, she's like, she's looking, trying to look like a Barbie on the White House lawn. It's just really cringe. But I also think, more importantly, it's extremely disrespectful. Not even to me, but to Caroline Levitt and to President Trump, who wanted to put independent media in the press briefing room. And shame on the Daily Mail. Shame on Kennedy for reorienting that news cycle away from what should have been. How awesome is it that Bannon's war room is in the press briefing room and instead, like, let's try to, you know, mock the, like, Don Bimbo, 23 year old, which I'm not. I got there off of my intelligence. I've broken more stories. I think that the Daily Mail has credited and not credited before than Kennedy ever has. And it's really, it's really disgusting. And when they put that piece out, to be honest, at first I was kind of like, whatever, it's funny. But then I was like, this is, like, some level of, like, coordinated, like, media where they want to make it very clear that, like, we are not welcome in the press briefing room, and it's just gross. Or maybe it's just women being women.
- [104:15]
Tim Pool
But, yeah, I. I was. I was disappointed when I saw it. When I saw that it was Kennedy, I actually commented and made a. A tweet about it. And then I saw that it was Kennedy, I was like, this is a drag. So I actually deleted.
- [104:26]
Natalie Winters
You took her side?
- [104:28]
Tim Pool
What? No, I didn't take her side.
- [104:29]
Natalie Winters
I tried to defend me. And then you deleted the tweet.
- [104:31]
Tim Pool
I did. I did. Because I didn't want to. Because. Because, like I said, I'm. I'm. I'm friendly with Kennedy, and so I didn't. And I was a little. I was a little on the. On the harsh side, so I was like, you know, maybe I should just delete it. But. But I mean, I'm speaking about it right now that it was, you know, I'm on your side. I think that I was really disappointed.
- [104:46]
Ian Crosland
I think we need a culture war with you and Kennedy.
- [104:49]
Natalie Winters
I would.
- [104:49]
Ian Crosland
Hot is too hot. Yeah, do it, dude. About what we wear. I mean, John Fetterman wears sweatpants to work.
- [104:56]
Tim Pool
Not only that, but, like, when it comes to.
- [104:58]
Natalie Winters
And I had worn that exact outfit, or if I were obese or if I were trans, there would have been front page, front page coverage on fricking Vogue, Cosmopolitan, in every women's magazine. Well, like, look at this powerful truth.
- [105:12]
Tim Pool
The. The last. The. That. That. Well, let's not use that word. The last. Like, last year. Last year, you know, there was a trans woman that had her. Her boobs out on the lawn. And. And everyone was. You know, there were everyone on the left for sure. And I don't know that Kennedy was. Had said anything about it. I don't know if she was actually had written a piece about it. But. But I mean, look, it's. Your outfit was, you know, completely. It was modest. You had. You had. You had a skirt on, but the. You had a, you know, turtleneck and everything.
- [105:44]
Natalie Winters
And so I also just refuse to bend the knee to the idea. Like, I love that politics is a very masculine sphere.
- [105:51]
Tim Pool
It.
- [105:52]
Natalie Winters
It should be. I. I don't want it to become, like, feminized, but I. That doesn't mean that I have to dress like a man or wear a pantsuit or, like, not be feminine. Like, One of the ways that I feel like I have preserved my femininity in a rather masculine space, which I don't say that in a negative way, is wearing pink and dresses and skirts and I'm not gonna wear like frumpy pantsuits like Most of Washington D.C. like most of the people in that press briefing room. And that's just where I don't understand like the push. I'm like, so you guys would have been happy, like what would have made it okay if I were wearing an ugly, ill fitting outfit? Outfit? No, like, like Tucker Carlson says, I'm not saying like I'm beautiful, but I'm saying beauty matters, aesthetics matter. Right? And I'm not going to show up looking ugly because some like older women can't handle it.
- [106:44]
Tim Pool
And that's something that we've said on this show and also on PCC when I like on. It's like we need to, we need to lift up like aesthetic things, lift up attractive people. Get rid of the people that are obese in ads that, that, that are obese for the point of having obese people. Like in underwear ads like Calvin Klein. Calvin Klein ran this, this ad campaign where they literally found the most unattractive human beings they could possibly find. They were just, they were just both disgusting. And that kind of stuff, I think that kind of stuff is, is, it's a, it's not offensive in a way that, where I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe they did this. But it's, it's just like, look, this is not, not, it's not attractive. No one thinks it's attractive. And to be honest with you, like, if you're looking to sell a product, why would you want to put a, put your product in a person that is, on a person that is repulsive, you know, So I think it's, I think that we should uphold like uplift people that are attractive or try to look your best at something like, like I don't, I'm not out of shape when I get on stage for the band and stuff like that. I want to be in good shape. I want to look like aspirational. I want people to be like, yeah, that guy's.
- [107:56]
Natalie Winters
But do you know what the Daily Mail had to do? Because I obviously didn't just sit back and take it. I, let's say had some choice words, but they had to take the author's name off the piece because I was getting so much pushback. So I think Daily Mail 0 Natalie Winters 1 or 2. I guess because the Kennedy piece, she gets ratioed all the time. So apparently why don't you guys write another article, see how that goes.
- [108:27]
Tim Pool
Raymond G. Stanley says. Raymond G. Stanley Jr. Says shout out. Chris Carr, good to see you on sir.
- [108:32]
Chris Carr
Thank you for that.
- [108:33]
Tim Pool
Welcome back.
- [108:34]
Chris Carr
Good to be back.
- [108:35]
Tim Pool
Let's see what else we got. The let's see A Jones says DJT nominated Neil Jacobs as head of noaa. He was the sharpie gate. Sharpie gate. Is that it? Sharpie gate guy who stayed neutral but the media crucified him for not trashing. Trashing Donald J. Trump. Trump he and he got removed as acting head of NOAA in 2020. Another FU to the media win for Noah. I'm not familiar with this particular issue but but hey, if it's trashing the mainstream media, then I'm all for it. Bridget May Alassar says I'm going back to the CPI with my mother in law who had a heart attack and stroke last week. Only about 10% function. We paid mine but struggling to come up with hers. Please share her gofundme heal Nurse Karen's heart. Thanks. So it's a gofundme heal Nurse Karen's heart if you can. If you can make a donation or give a little bit. Go ahead and please give if you can. Let's see the real Doug Lane says would love to see y'all interview Chris had from innocent from the Innocent Lives Foundation. Badass computer nerds. Identifying anonymous child Identifying anonymous child as essay predators online. True superheroes. That is. That is a really, really good thing.
- [110:04]
Natalie Winters
Some of your comments are self searched.
- [110:07]
Tim Pool
Oh I can see them. Oh yeah.
- [110:09]
Natalie Winters
Oh my gosh.
- [110:11]
Ian Crosland
Or I'll go home after work and read them sometimes just laugh ass off. Well a great chat.
- [110:16]
Natalie Winters
You have a great audience.
- [110:18]
Tim Pool
Isaac Vanderbilt says personally I support whatever Trump does. Good to hear. She's like whatever man. I'm on it. Hard case says Phil, that new album slaps harder than Uncle Daddy on whiskey night. Tim, look into Indiana if y'all leave West Virginia. Thank you very much Hard Case. I appreciate that. The Mac Malcor, is that it? The Malcore says hi Phil, can you shout out my gofundme help Joshua get back on the road? Could use so much help. Thank you. So I'm not sure what it is but if you want to go check it out. The Malcor's GoFundMe is help Joshua get back on the road. He could have given a little more info to people. The Malcore yeah. Hops and brews. Ian first controls the Weather now, the President.
- [111:09]
Chris Carr
Oh, geez.
- [111:10]
Ian Crosland
All connected.
- [111:12]
Tim Pool
It's frightening.
- [111:13]
Ian Crosland
You're attached to a web of subatomic consciousness just tugging on it. The more honest you are, the more aligned you become, the more stuck to the web of reality you become. So your movements affect everybody a little more tightly.
- [111:27]
Tim Pool
Jimmy says, constitutionally, the President runs the executive branch, but for the last 50 years, the bureaucrats have been running it illegally for the globalists. And you know, there's a lot of truth to that content or to that comment. The idea that the government or that the President should be able to just say, no, we're going to fire you, Fire this person, we're going to hire this person. That's what people assume goes on. But when it comes to unions and all of the hoops that the, that the executive has to jump through just to fire someone, I mean, it's hard to say that the will of the people is being carried out vote when there are multiple organizations and lawyers and unions that are going to do everything they can to stymie that will when it's executed by the President. I mean, the whole point of the President saying I need to be able to hire and fire people is he needs people that are going to carry out the policies that the people voted for.
- [112:26]
Ian Crosland
I remember before the election they were discussing firing all the bureaucrats and say he can't, he doesn't have the legal authority to do it. Vivek came in and was like, actually what he can do is end certain departments and then all those people lose their job. He can't go in and individually fire one guy after another. I don't know how much where that starts and where that stops. And if he overstepped, I don't know.
- [112:50]
Tim Pool
I do think that he should be able to, though. I mean, he's, he is the executive, he's the guy and he's the, the representative of, of the people. The bureaucrats aren't voted on. You know, the, the President can hire the, you know, he hires his, his, his cabinet, but beyond that, the bureaucrats that were there oftentimes stay. And if you can't get rid of the people, if you, if the President can't fire them or the, the heads of the cabinet can't fire them, then it, it ends up being a situation where it's just the same people. And maybe they'll do some changes that the President wants, but the, the big policies kind of remain the same. And you, you've seen that. I mean, just like this whole USAID thing, like USAID has been around since Kennedy and it's been doing. First it was, you know, ostensibly it was. It existed to help fight communism and which I think is a worthy policy, but once the, the Soviet Union fell, then, you know, there was no real use for it and it became corrupted.
- [113:54]
Natalie Winters
And it's also quite sinister to the concept of, like, burrowing in. So at the tail end of the Biden regime, the Obama regime, like a lot of the political staffers, even I forget most recently, but someone who's very high up, like, very deep state they try to become in the final few weeks or whatever, make the transition from political appointee to career civil servant. So it's not just that you have like the evil, awful, horrible civil servants, but then you have a lot of, like the worst of the worst politicals who merge. Merge into that. But obviously they're scared of Schedule F. I think if you. Well, Schedule F is sort of what Vivek was talking about, but there's like, other ways to go about doing it. That's like the tip of the iceberg. But I think if you really, I mean, drill down on why they're so opposed to the idea of Project 2025, it was basically giving President Trump authority over all aspects of the government, which they didn't have an issue. Right. When Joe Biden did it, or firing people off of vaccine mandates. Right. But the crux of Project 2025 really was in the Schedule F. Like the people who had come up with the Schedule F executive order were basically all at the PPO office the first time around, who then sort of ended up at Heritage working on Project 2025. So that was like the ideological bedrock that I think sort of advanced the bigger narrative, which sort of goes back to what we were talking about, the unitary executive theory, but just talking about how President Trump is the chief magistrate, not just over doj, but over hiring people. And frankly, I think it's even funny too, like the framing of it that President Trump putting in appointees who are, I would argue, loyal to the United States as opposed to loyal to him, that that's somehow like his cardinal sin, appointing loyalists. Right. Like, they say the L word like it's a bad word and it's like, well, no, I reject that framing. Just like, in the same way, it's not a trade war, it's not President Trump's trade war. China's been attacking us. We're not nativists for wanting immigration restrictions. Like, they put the onus on us. They're victim blaming. There's Nothing wrong with wanting to hire people who are. I guess I would prefer loyalty to the United States as opposed to, like, the deep state. It's like what Bill Kristol tweeted, right? He was like, well, I much prefer the deep state to the Trump state. Like, that tweet is so telling in so many ways.
- [116:13]
Tim Pool
Yeah, yeah.
- [116:14]
Ian Crosland
You can have, like, loyal people that are very good, and you can have loyal people that are very evil, and you can have, like, people that aren't loyal that. That serve the Constitution over the man that are very good, and also people like that, that are very evil. So it's, you know, you just. As long as the people that are loyal are also good people doing the right thing, you know that. I think that's. That's all that really matters.
- [116:38]
Tim Pool
Humble beginning says. Remember when Trump said he wanted to take back the Panama Canal, then sent Rubio over to make a deal? Has anyone been watching Trump for 10 years? Thank you, Natalie, for common sense. Of course Dems are going to fear Monger.
- [116:52]
Ian Crosland
I got to say this about Marco Rubio. I was a little reticent about him because I've been watching the guy for 15 years, and I thought he was like a deep state, just lifelong bureaucratic. And I now elected.
- [117:04]
Tim Pool
He.
- [117:04]
Ian Crosland
What's that? He's a senator. Obviously he's a senator. I just thought he was like a big business count out of the business in. In 2012, you know, when he. In 2016.
- [117:13]
Natalie Winters
Borders amnesty.
- [117:14]
Ian Crosland
What's that?
- [117:15]
Natalie Winters
His open border shill. Yeah, like, strong on amnesty.
- [117:18]
Ian Crosland
But I gotta say, this guy's a. An expert diplomat, maybe a master diplomat. And his fluency in Spanish is key right now with the negotiations in Central and South America being right at the front of the table. Like, that is so great that we have such a good negotiator, a masterful diplomat as our Secretary of State. I really like the work he's done with Panama, with Mexico. I don't know if he was the one that negotiated with the Mexican president to get the 10,000 troops on the board. I think Trump did that directly. But Rubio's.
- [117:46]
Chris Carr
Dude, Rubio's lit in that position. Like, that was a key position to put him in. So if he was in a different position, it might not be as effective. But, I mean, he speaks Spanish and he hates communism. So for that role, it's kind of ideal.
- [117:58]
Ian Crosland
Son of Cubans.
- [117:59]
Tim Pool
Great. Yep. Yeah. I mean, the fact that he's son of Cubans probably has a lot to do with why he hates communists. But. But of Course, yeah. That kind of attitude and, and that kind of, you know, understanding of the left is, is, in my opinion, you know, there's, there's immense value in it. And he was definitely a great pick for Secretary of State.
- [118:20]
Chris Carr
And I secretly want to think that his hatred for communism drove him to be really good friends with the fascist Bukele in El Salvador.
- [118:28]
Ian Crosland
Yeah, we didn't mention it. They negotiated El Salvador taking a bunch of prisoners. We're basically going to pay them to take a bunch of prisoners into their super mega prison that they got down.
- [118:36]
Chris Carr
There and, and we're going to help them with nuclear development.
- [118:40]
Tim Pool
Yeah.
- [118:40]
Chris Carr
In exchange and on top of fees, small fees for the, for the prisoners. It's great. It's beautiful. Send them to the worst prison in the world.
- [118:48]
Tim Pool
Mr. Dinder says, My wife just gave birth. Birthright to our. What was this? Birthright to eto. Our thirdest child, James, this afternoon. That's one heck of.
- [118:59]
Chris Carr
He's overjoyed.
- [119:00]
Tim Pool
That's one heck of a. A comment. He's gonna need one of them. Ian Roberto Jr. Scream, please.
- [119:10]
Ian Crosland
That was one for you, baby. And my love to James.
- [119:16]
Tim Pool
Let's see.
- [119:17]
Ian Crosland
He really screamed like that, that chicken. Chicken, yeah.
- [119:19]
Tim Pool
I believe you.
- [119:20]
Ian Crosland
It was crazy the way.
- [119:21]
Natalie Winters
Did they. Did it die?
- [119:22]
Ian Crosland
It died, yeah. Sad to see him go, unfortunately, kinda chicken.
- [119:27]
Tim Pool
Chickens sometimes just do that, though.
- [119:30]
Natalie Winters
Did he die?
- [119:31]
Tim Pool
Did you die?
- [119:31]
Ian Crosland
No, he like went in a shock or something.
- [119:34]
Natalie Winters
Yeah, yeah. There's no legal immigrant. Yeah.
- [119:40]
Tim Pool
James Cottered artist said Natalie dropped the word Chiron tonight. A subtle reference to the classic ATR track off of Overcome. Well played, Phil. Well played. You know, we actually didn't plan that. And to be honest with you, when she said Chiron, she wasn't referring to the same Chiron that I was referring to when I named the song.
- [119:57]
Ian Crosland
What's the difference?
- [119:57]
Tim Pool
Well, Chiron is the thing at the bottom of the.
- [120:01]
Natalie Winters
Did I say.
- [120:01]
Tim Pool
Pardon me?
- [120:02]
Natalie Winters
Yeah, Chiron, like on the bottom of the TV screen.
- [120:05]
Chris Carr
Meaning, Though I've never.
- [120:06]
Tim Pool
Well, so Chiron was Achilles teacher. Oh, okay.
- [120:09]
Ian Crosland
Oh, the Greek.
- [120:10]
Tim Pool
Yeah. So then I wrote a song called Chiron because it was about the people that have taught me and influenced me in my life and so.
- [120:16]
Chris Carr
Nice.
- [120:17]
Tim Pool
Yeah, so she was talking about a different Chiron than I was talking about, but it's the same, you know, same pronunciation. So add hoarding procrastinator says continuity of government is no excuse for the continuity of corruption. Absolutely. I love to hear that. So smash the like button. Share the show with your friends. Go to timcast.com and become a member. Natalie, thank you for joining us. Do you have anything that you want to shout out?
- [120:41]
Natalie Winters
Thank you so much for having me. You can follow me on Instagram, Twitter, all the things. Even though I'm a luddite at Natalie G. Winter for outfit pics that go viral.
- [120:52]
Tim Pool
Perfect.
- [120:53]
Ian Crosland
Also the war room. If I don't know, people probably already.
- [120:56]
Natalie Winters
Know, but you just hold that down.
- [120:58]
Ian Crosland
Thanks for coming, Natalie. I'm Ian Crossland, everyone. Thanks for coming. Thanks for being here. Thanks for being a part of it. Follow me at Ian Crossland all over the Internet. I went really crazy on journalism over the weekend, really documenting a lot of these moves that are happening on Twitter. So follow my X account for that. A lot goes on on the weekends. Elon does work the weekends where a lot of his the opposing team goes home for the week. According to him, goes home for the weekend. So he's got two free days to get work done. Mondays are very, very active. All right, Chris Carr, talk me out baby.
- [121:28]
Chris Carr
Chris Carr, 17 on X. Come check out the feed.
- [121:32]
Tim Pool
I am Filler remains on Twix. I'm Phil that remains official on Instagram. The band is all that remains. Our new record Antifragile is available right now. You can go to YouTube, Amazon Music, Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora and Diesel to check out out the singles Forever cold, let you go, no tomorrow divine. They're all available. Stick around if you're a member. The member show is coming up momentarily. And don't forget, the left lane is for crime. We will see you tomorrow. If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs. But nothing's worse than that ancient boiler that's lived in the building since the day it was built 50 years ago. It's enough to make anyone lose their cool. That's where Grainger comes in. With industrial grade products and dependable, fast delivery, Grainger can help with any challenge from worn out components to everyday necessities. Call clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.