Trump's Secret Plan To Make Charlie Kirk VP, America Fest IN CIVIL WAR w/ Rollo Tomassi

Summary

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Timcast IRL — Trump's Secret Plan To Make Charlie Kirk VP, America Fest IN CIVIL WAR w/ Rollo Tomassi

Date: December 20, 2025 | Host: Tim Pool | Guests: Rollo Tomassi, Tate Brown, Ian Cross, Phil Labonte
Episode Theme:
Examining the reported secret plan by Donald Trump to position Charlie Kirk as a future Vice President and eventual President, and dissecting the escalating infighting ("civil war") among conservative factions at America Fest (Amfest) following Kirk's assassination. The discussion explores political succession, MAGA coalition fractures, masculinity, immigration, and the cultural and gender divides in US politics.

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Episode Overview

• Main Theme:
  A deep-dive into new revelations about Trump's political succession plans, the impact and fallout of Charlie Kirk’s assassination, and the growing infighting among the American right, exemplified at Amfest. The panel, featuring Rollo Tomassi and others, unpacks the fractures between conservative factions, questions the future direction of the Republican Party, and addresses bigger cultural rifts including gender politics, immigration, and the role of masculinity in modern conservatism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking News: The Trump–Kirk Succession Plan

[01:33]–[12:21]

• Headline: Daily Mail report claims Trump set up a pipeline for Charlie Kirk to become VP under J.D. Vance in 2028 and then ascend to the presidency, with Don Jr. as Kirk’s VP.
• Tim Pool:
  “Apparently Donald Trump was planning to put Charlie Kirk in the White House...The plan, according to the Daily Mail, was that Charlie Kirk would be the vice presidential candidate for J.D. Vance...Should they go two terms, the next candidate...was going to be Charlie Kirk himself.” [01:33]
• Reactions:
  • Kirk’s influence described as unparalleled among young conservatives.
  • His assassination is seen as a calculated move to cripple the populist right.
• Tate Brown:
  “Assassinations work, that’s why people do them. And taking Charlie Kirk off the board...everyone was like, we're in trouble without Charlie Kirk.” [08:56]
• Ian Cross:
  “I don't think there's anyone in the conservative movement that had the influence that Charlie did. His ability to reach out and talk to young people...” [09:47]

2. MAGA Civil War & Infighting at Amfest

[10:51]–[26:03]

• Report: Attendees at Amfest describe “walking on eggshells” as high-profile conservatives (e.g., Ben Shapiro vs. Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens) openly feud.
• Exclusive Incident: Fresh and Fit podcast hosts briefly ejected from Amfest, highlighting gatekeeping and growing division.
• Tim Pool:
  “You can see right now the gatekeeping has begun and the Republican Party...is going to be reshaped into something else.” [03:25]
• Ian Cross:
  “I think it's very obvious there is a MAGA civil war...who's going to win is going to be the Romneysque conservatives...” [22:07]
• Prediction: The party may fracture along traditional Republican lines vs. populist/MAGA factions, with potential for a “Rogan-esque” Democrat to fill the vacuum if Republicans alienate their younger, more diverse base.

3. The Heritage American Debate – Immigration, Citizenship, and National Identity

[34:04]–[54:27]

• Vivek Ramaswamy Speech at Amfest: (Clip Played)
  • Critiques the rising “heritage American” idea that equates authentic Americanness with lineage.
  • Argues American identity is about ideals, not ancestry.
  • Audience (and hosts) pushback: Is this erasing the significance of shared heritage, traditions, and ties to America’s founding?
• Tate Brown:
  “What Vivek is doing here is really pernicious...he’s using American as an adjective rather than a noun...because he does not believe that anybody that has any lineage in this country is entitled to the country.” [41:27]
• Tim Pool:
  “I'm not very interested in the political opinions of foreigners in America...I value an American communist's opinion more than an Indian migrant's opinion because they are Americans and we have a system...” [38:55]
• Discussion:
  – Panel argues about assimilation, net zero migration, and the hazards (and straw-manning) of defining “real” Americans exclusively by either law or lineage.
  – Predicts both establishment parties will push for more open, inclusive definitions to support immigration-driven economic growth, risking further cultural fragmentation.

4. Masculinity, Gender Divide, and the Political ‘Manosphere’

[68:11]–[78:13]

• Panel, led by Rollo Tomassi:
  – Analyzes the deepening gap between young men and women—culturally, musically, politically.
  – Women moving left, men right; contemporary society is “feminized,” inclined toward egalitarianism and groupthink, while right-wing thought is described as inherently hierarchical and masculine. – Discussion of “repeal the 19th” meme leads to debate about meaningful reforms, e.g., requiring all voters to sign up for selective service. – Rollo Tomassi:
  “Responsibility without authority is slavery...reverse is tyranny...patriarchy is a far more balanced way of organizing society than gynocentrism or androcentrism...” [75:24]

5. The Problem of Exclusion — Who Speaks to Young Men?

[88:34]–[92:53]

• Tim Pool:
  “Just name for me one conservative that speaks masculinity to young men…Who does Turning Point in the Republican Party have that is inspiring young men to be stronger, faster, better?” [88:49]
• Rollo Tomassi:
  “All we’re doing is...offering information and education so that you can protect yourself and make better decisions for yourself.” [91:17]
• Panel agrees: figures like Andrew Tate (controversial or not) are filling a void because mainline conservatives fail to offer an inspiring masculine archetype.

6. The Fresh and Fit Ejection – Symbol of Chaos & Division

[78:13]–[87:44]

• Timeline of Fresh and Fit podcast hosts’ ejection and reinstatement at Amfest.
• Debate: Was it about “association,” about Candace Owens, about accusations of antisemitism, or just bureaucratic confusion in a large, unwieldy movement?
• Ian Cross:
  “Amfest is likely just going to start shrinking and kicking people out and then it will just be CPAC.” [81:18]

7. Conservative Infighting: Bannon vs. Ben Shapiro & Israel as a Litmus Test

[99:47]–[104:03]

• Steve Bannon’s Attack on Ben Shapiro: (Clip Played) – Accuses Shapiro of being a “cancer,” lifelong Never-Trumper, and prioritizing Israeli interests over American. – Israel emerges as a new wedge issue within the right.
• Tim Pool:
  “There’s literally no organization here...there was no one going ‘guys, whatever you do, do not go up on stage and just rag on each other’...It’s WWE.” [104:03]

8. Private Military Contractors, Letters of Marque, and the "Pirate" Era

[54:57]–[65:38]

• Senator Mike Lee proposes American privateers (“pirates”) to seize cartel assets.
• Discussion of historical precedent, the rise of PMCs (Private Military Companies), and implications for US veterans, foreign policy, and a “PMC era.”

9. Vigilantism, Social Media Nihilism, and the Red Pill

[121:53]–[123:47]

• Social media incentivizes “nihilism,” spreads black pill (‘doomer’) mindsets.
• Discussion on the ethics and effectiveness of vigilante justice vs. rule of law—concern that right-wing extralegal behavior risks resembling left-wing activism.
• Tim Pool:
  “They want to argue, they're non offending. What they want to do is...build compassion so that they can try to normalize it. F that. There’s a line, man.” [124:10]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Assassinations work, that’s why people do them.” — Tate Brown [08:56]
• “He was treated like a rock star...such a massive space on the right...a quarterback of the MAGA movement.” — Panel on Charlie Kirk [10:45]
• “The only way a woman wins the presidency is if both parties nominate a woman.” — Ian Cross [13:34]
• “Women organize societies...more egalitarian...men, hierarchies.” — Rollo Tomassi [69:37]
• “Just name for me one conservative that speaks masculinity to young men.” — Tim Pool [88:49]
• “It’s WWE...Why would I want to go and stand in an audience and listen to a speech by Bannon about Ben Shapiro? I don’t care.” — Tim Pool [104:03]
• “If Charlie was still alive, this would not happen.” — Ian Cross on the infighting at Amfest [105:56]
• “There’s literally no organization here...It’s just absolutely insane.” — Tim Pool [104:03]
• “Responsibility without authority is slavery. ... Authority without any responsibility is tyranny.” — Rollo Tomassi [75:27]
• “Amfest is likely just going to start shrinking and kicking people out and then it will just be CPAC.” — Ian Cross [81:18]
• “You act on it in any way, you go to jail, you get locked up. ... These map, you know, they try to use that semantic BS to hide what they do.” — Tim Pool [123:18]
• "There's a lot of feminists, but the same way we are seeing the icing out of the people on the right, I would not be surprised to see [the left] start saying, 'maybe we need to get rid of these whackaloons.'" — Ian Cross [30:10]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:33] — Trump's secret plan: Vance–Kirk succession, Don Jr. as VP
• [08:56] — Impact of Kirk's assassination; analysis of political vacuum
• [10:51] — Amfest infighting, exclusion of Fresh and Fit
• [22:07] — MAGA 'Civil War,' predictions for party splits
• [34:04] — Vivek Ramaswamy at Amfest: The “Heritage American” debate
• [68:11] — Masculinity, gender divides, societal “feminization”
• [75:24] — Gynocentrism, patriarchy, and political tribalism
• [81:18] — Concerns of Amfest devolving into CPAC, exclusion dynamics
• [99:58] — Steve Bannon lays into Ben Shapiro; Israel as litmus
• [121:53] — Vigilantism in policing crimes; red pill/black pill culture
• [124:10] — Normalization discourse, vigilantism, and MAP
• [134:52] — Reflections & sign-off—memories, future plans, community plug

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Episode Conclusion

The panel closes with reflections on the tumultuous year—highlighted by violence, political assassinations, and divisions within the American right that threaten to undo the MAGA coalition. The exclusion of dissenting voices and the lack of inspiring role models for young men are identified as long-term threats to both conservatism and national cohesion. The solution, per the panel, lies in reclaiming unity, refocusing on substantive issues, and revitalizing cultural, masculine appeal—avoiding the dead-end of endless, self-defeating infighting.

Final thoughts:
A compelling, fiery roundtable sharply critiquing the state of conservative politics, the dangers of ideological purity, and a system strained at every level—political, cultural, and generational.

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Transcript

[Tim Pool]

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[Tate Brown]

Santa, did you get my letter?

[Ian Cross]

He's talking to you britches. I'm not. Of course he did. Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

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Made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone. Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com sign up. Save $80 with code [e-mail]. Hey, we're good. I pressed the right button. All right, my friends, this is a breaking story. Donald Trump had a secret plan to put Charlie Kirk. You see you guys. You see? They didn't Turn the mics on. What's going on? Is it even coming through? Welcome to our last show of the year, everybody. It's going to be a lot of. We got big news. Apparently Donald Trump was planning to put Charlie Kirk in the White House after he left. The plan, according to the Daily Mail, was that Charlie Kirk would be the vice presidential candidate for J.D. vance. The plan was, should they go two terms, the next candidate in 2036 was going to be Charlie Kirk himself. And everybody knew it. And that's why they've been saying it now. The reporting is out, however, currently at Amfest. It's. I don't know, you know, I say civil war because it's, it's, it's shock titling or whatever, whatever you call it, it's infighting. People have just said it's a bit like walking on eggshells. Half the people are upset with the other half of the people or something like this. Ben Shapiro's ragging on Tucker and Megyn Kelly and then Tucker comes out, laughs, and calls him pompous. Everyone's fighting and it's pretty crazy. We, we had Fresh and fit. You guys know Myron and Fresh. They got barred and was it fresh, right?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, she got walked off.

[Ian Cross]

He got walked off by security and they're like, we don't know why. And he's like, okay, I guess. And then eventually they let him back in. But you can see right now the gatekeeping has begun and the Republican Party and this machine is going to be reshaped into something else. So it's happening. Elise Stefanik dropping out of the race in New York. Not. She's not gonna run for Congress again. Tons of people are retiring. Troy Nails is retiring. I believe people are getting the F out of politics. And I'll tell you this too. I don't wanna drag anybody, but some of the people that we've been talking to abruptly at the last minute are like, you know what? I can't be involved in this. We saw it in Maine. People are terrified of being murdered, of being shot at. And I think when I come out and say, hey, they shot at my studio, a lot of people are gonna be like, dude, I don't wanna be involved in whatever is going on right now. What does that mean? I honestly have no idea. But it's the last show of the year. We're gonna talk about it. Before we do, guys, we got a great sponsor for you. It is crowd health. It's open enrollment, my friends. The season where health insurance companies. Hope you'll blindly sign up again for overpriced premiums and confusing fine print. Don't just take someone else's word. Trust yourself and take control of your future. With Crowd health, the healthcare alternative for people who make their own decisions, it's healthcare. For under 100 bucks. You get access to a team of health bill negotiators, low cost prescription and lab testing tools, as well as a database of low cost, high quality doctors vetted by Crowd health. And what if something major happens? You pay the first $500 and the crowd steps in to help fund the rest. It feels like the options we used to have before Obamacare messed everything up. And of course, you'll join the crowd, a group of members just like you who want to help pay for each other's unexpected medical events. The system is betting you'll stay stuck in the same overpriced, overcomplicated mess. And this year, it's even more complicated because most of the ACA subsidies expire, which means your prices are going sky high. So far, Crowd Health members have saved over $400 million. I'm sorry, 40 million. That was way too high. 40 million in healthcare expenses because they refuse to overpay for healthcare. This open enrollment. Take your power back. Use promo code [e-mail] and get started today for $99. CrowdHealth is not insurance. Opt out. Take your power back. It's how we win. Join CrowdHealth.com use promo code TIM. And we also have this right here. We've got Rumble, the official broadcaster. December 20th. That's tomorrow. Dubai, 2pm Eastern, exclusively on Rumble Premium. Andrew Tate fighting Chase the Moore. And I hear that everybody either wants the Andrew Tate beat the crap out of somebody or get the crap beaten out of him. Either way, your money is well worth it. Use promo code TIM10 at Rumble Premium. Watch the fight tomorrow. I am not going to miss this. I'm actually rooting for Andrew Tate. I don't know about the rest of you, but that's what. That's what I'm going for. What do you guys think? Who do you guys want to win? You want to take to win?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, I kind of do want to take to it, but I. I did see. Did you guys see the. The way in and the stare down? Yeah. Tape Lynched.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, my God. I've never seen that happen before.

[Ian Cross]

All right, well, anyway, obviously joining us tonight, we got Roller Tomasi.

[Tim Pool]

Hey, thanks for having me.

[Ian Cross]

Who are you?

[Tim Pool]

I am the author of the Rational Mail. I've Been on the. Doing your show once, I think.

[Ian Cross]

I think it was number two, I think.

[Tim Pool]

Welcome to Las Vegas. Finally got you out here. You know, I played some poker, doing some, some games.

[Ian Cross]

I've never been a big fan of Vegas, but I'm having fun now. Yeah, good. Probably because I got something to do here.

[Tim Pool]

Right?

[Ian Cross]

Yeah. We got Tate hanging out.

[Tate Brown]

What is going on, patriots? Tate Brown here holding it down. Yeah, I'm partial to Andrew Tate because my name's Tate Brown. His name's Andrew Tate. He is Brown. And when you look up my name on Twitter, it's just people calling Andrew Tate Brown. Floods the. Floods the Zone. But I'm partial to Andrew Tate. I think he's going to put on a show. I'm looking forward to it.

[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

It's true.

[Ian Cross]

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[Tim Pool]

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[Ian Cross]

My name is Phil Labonte. I'm the lead singer of the heavy.

[Tim Pool]

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[Ian Cross]

I'm an anti communist and a counter revolutionary.

[Tim Pool]

Let's get into it.

[Ian Cross]

Of course. Shout out Mike Lindell. MyPillow. Go to MyPillow.com use promo code TIM. Thank you, MyPillow, for making this possible. They sponsored our efforts out here. You know, whenever we travel and do these big shows, it's very difficult, it's very expensive. And thanks to the team and Mike Lindell over at MyPillow, they made it possible. Get your pillows, get your slippers, get your towels, get all the good stuff. MyPillow use promo code. Tim the best promo code. Here's a story from the Daily Mail. This is actually fairly wild. Trump's secret succession plan to put Charlie Kirk in the Oval Office and groom a new a shock new vp. I'm gonna lay it down for you. It's very simple. The plan was 2028. J.D. vance presidential ticket. Vance Kirk. Charlie Kirk is the VP and it was perfect. He was young. It's gonna be a few years from now. He'd be old enough and then two terms. Charlie Kirk would be the next presidential candidate and he would be a relatively young, well known, high profile guy. His VP was going to be Don Jr. Which makes a lot of sense now. I Wonder with the assassination, was it just something so simple as he's a guy whose politics we don't like, or was there perhaps a we don't want this guy to win the presidency, some nefarious efforts. I lean towards the very simple crackpot leftists plan this and they wanted to stop Charlie Kirk. But if I was going to be conspiratorial, I'd argue it's going to be machine state, deep state, whatever you might think.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah, I mean, I think the shooting in and of itself demonstrated the gravity that Charlie Kirk had. I mean, he had an entire apparatus behind him that he had built from scratch. And whoever the man that shot him obviously was fully aware of that. He knew what he was doing. Michael Knowles made this point on his show and it's something that not a lot of conservatives want to hear because it's like a sobering reality. But what he said is that assassinations work, that's why people do them. And taking Charlie Kirk off the board after it wasn't this Kumbaya moment. Like, guys, we gotta, we gotta take it back. Everyone was like, we're in trouble without Charlie Kirk. Like, there's no doubt about it. He occupied such a massive space on the right. And I mean, I'm glad the Daily Mail is at least reporting that there was a plan in place. But I think it was going to be obvious that either way he was going to be a presidential, certainly a candidate. I mean, he held unbelievable weight in the conservative movement. It would have just been inevitable, I think.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, I don't think there is a lot of people in the conservative movement. I don't think there's anyone in the.

[Tim Pool]

Conservative movement that had the influence that Charlie did.

[Ian Cross]

His ability to reach out and talk to young people. I saw basically a sizzle reel of.

[Tim Pool]

All of the people that were just.

[Ian Cross]

Adoring Charlie the day that he was shot.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Ian Cross]

It was the three month anniversary. Someone put together a sizzle reel.

[Tim Pool]

And there was nothing gruesome in it.

[Ian Cross]

It was about celebrating Charlie's life. And even that day, there's like 3,000 people there. People were just stoked to see and he was treated like a rock star, you know, and when you have someone that is that influential and has that.

[Tim Pool]

Much goodwill towards him from a voting.

[Ian Cross]

Block, I mean, it's unstoppable when it.

[Tim Pool]

Comes to, at least politically, you know, it's something that was remarkable, honestly.

[Ian Cross]

So it is, obviously it's a massive loss. And it is good to hear, you know, the Daily Mail talking about this and putting this information out there.

[Tate Brown]

So, yeah, he's aptly dubbed the quarterback of the MAGA movement. When your quarterback goes down, your offense grinds to a halt.

[Tim Pool]

I mean, look what's happening at Amfest right now. Look at all the things that have happened in the wake of Charlie Kirk. Yeah, I think I look at everything just imploding right now.

[Ian Cross]

I think we're looking at. There's been a political elite civil war going on since Trump got in. The Democrats, what did they. They called Trump the Pied Piper candidate. They hoped that if Trump won the primary, the Republican primary, he would lead the Republicans in a direction that would cost them the election. Trump won. Yeah. Whoopsie. And since then, they have been doing everything in their power to destroy the right populist movement. This with the taking out of Charlie, either through sheer convenience, that same left wacko, you know, the left line wacko did this or somebody planned something. Because I don't think for a second it's a lone shooter theory.

[Tim Pool]

That's funny because, like, when I remember the day he got shot and I was talking with my wife and I said, you know, I said, if you want to watch this video, watch this video. If I suggest you don't. And she's like, why would they do this? Why would. What is it about him that makes him so important? I said, he's so such a likable guy. And I said, most likely it's because he was making a presidential run at some point or, you know, he would have been, what, 35 in 2028. I mean, even if it's not president, maybe he's vice president he's running with. This is the first time I've ever heard my suspicions anyways, like, confirmed. But like, yeah, I mean, he was very popular. You don't have to. He doesn't have to be a politician's politician. I mean, he could just be a well liked guy and you can, you know, for his, you know, his views and his convictions and standing up for all that stuff especially give him another.

[Ian Cross]

Four years, I think.

[Tim Pool]

Where's he then? You know?

[Ian Cross]

Yeah. Where does he go afterwards? Right. I think especially with the money they were raising. I, I think the Tyler Robinson story is the closest to reality, but who knows? However, this idea that he acted alone I think is silly, especially with his reporting that there were vehicles gathering outside his home and like there was a meeting and people were going on social media and posting that they had foreknowledge of his assassination. The most likely thing, it sounds like liberal activists left Leaning progressive activists plotted this. And it wasn't just because Charlie was hateful. It's because he was effective. So I'm conspiracy 100% on this one. I just think that the likely scenario would be Tyler Robinson working with other people of this political persuasion. Not like, I don't know what my question was.

[Tim Pool]

This just like, okay, let's just pure speculation here. Let's say they run Charlie Kirk. Who does the left run against? Charlie Kirk in 2028? Who do they put up there?

[Ian Cross]

Like AOC?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. AOC would go down just like Hillary went down because she's just not as likable as somebody is. Like Charlie Carter.

[Ian Cross]

I understand.

[Tim Pool]

They need rock stars.

[Ian Cross]

I don't think a woman can win the prize. Gavin Newsom. They've already done a talk show together. Gavin and Charlie.

[Tim Pool]

That's what I was thinking. Gavin Newsom. But Gavin Newsom versus Charlie, man, Kevin Newsom looks like a sneak. He looks like a used car.

[Ian Cross]

The only way a woman wins the presidency is if both parties nominate a woman. And that means, like through inner politicking, they make this woman happen. The idea that a woman ran against a man, I think it's almost always going to end up with the woman losing. And it's funny because when I say this, the progressives go, Tim, sexist. He says a woman can't win. It's your argument. It's that there are many men who would never vote for a woman. I believe you are correct, liberals. What if it was Tulsi Gabbard for the Republican Party, and then the Democrats just bypassed the primary and selected with superdelegates, some despicable, weak man that people thought was useless. Hold on, hold on, hold on. We gotta do. I'm in. We're in Vegas. Here's what we're gonna do, brother. We're gonna walk on the strip up to some regular old people, some homies, and we're gonna ask them, would you vote for a woman president? And you know what's gonna happen? Half the guys are gonna go, hell no. Would you vote for 88 year old, fat, tired man too? And they'd be like, no. I mean, bro, what do you think? Who would you vote for?

[Tim Pool]

They're already there. They've already done so.

[Ian Cross]

I mean, like, there's tons of videos already where they're like, in Times Square and they're like, would you ever vote for one president? And these young guys are like, never. And they ask them, like, what if the candidate was like, you know, the crippled old man? And they're like, nah, women shouldn't be president. Even women go, no, I wouldn't vote for a woman.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah. There's lots of, like, attributes of a presidential candidate that negatively impact them potentially. I mean, it's difficult for men that are short to sort of win the presidency. It's to sort of win.

[Ian Cross]

To actually win.

[Tate Brown]

To actually win. It's difficult for single men to win the presidency. I mean, that was the biggest hit against Tim Scott in the primaries was that he was single and then just swirled like homosexual allegations. It's like you need. But there's like. There's a lot of physical attributes that come into play because you're selling them on a package, you're selling them on an esthetic, you're selling them on a vibe, bro. All of these things synthesize into a political trumpet.

[Ian Cross]

Shouldn't have won. Hillary Clinton was just very unlikable. Yeah. Politically evil. And there were a lot of people that don't want to vote for a woman.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah. I mean, people downplay the. The actual effect that has when people see her next to Trump on a debate stage where he's towering above her wide shoulders. He's like a total alpha. And then Hillary's this tiny little stump woman in a pantsuit.

[Ian Cross]

Kamala Harris requested that her podium in the debate be smaller so that it looked proportionate to her body. Like Trump on camera.

[Tim Pool]

Wow.

[Ian Cross]

Because most people were only seeing Kamala and then Trump and back and forth, and the camera zooms were made to make them look the same size on tv. But when you were there, she had a teeny little podium and he had a very big one. So Tim Waltz, Democratic Nomin versus versus Tulsi Gabbard. You think Tim Waltz would win?

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

That's tough.

[Ian Cross]

I mean, Rolo's the.

[Tate Brown]

I would actually speculate.

[Ian Cross]

Tim Waltz wins. And I'll say this. I like Tulsi Gabbard as well. But I remember her performance in 2020, and she did some really good things, but was not x factor level 10. It was. It was not up there. And also in this. In this hypothetical, like you're dealing with.

[Tim Pool]

Someone that used to be a Democrat.

[Ian Cross]

There would be plenty of Repub that would come out and say, no, she's actually a Democrat.

[Tim Pool]

Remember, she used to this and they're.

[Ian Cross]

Used to that, etc.

[Tim Pool]

And so they wouldn't trust her to.

[Ian Cross]

Be an actual conservative. I'll give you this, Ian.

[Tim Pool]

She's also. She's also a Christian.

[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

T mobile is in US cellular stores.

[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

If the Democrats collude with the Republicans and say we're gonna pick a guy who's literally in a coma and then you're gonna pick a charismatic woman, then the woman's probably gonna win. Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

Like a, like a Nikki Haley pulls really well against Democrat candidates purely because she's not really threatening to the sort of regime as it stands in any way. If you want to bring in like it's truly formidable, paradigm changing candidate, they're going to be a male because you're gonna have to sell them on the additional factors. So Trump. That's what Trump had to be.

[Tim Pool]

I was gonna say I, I wrote this essay that probably about a year after the trump Hillary in 2016. Right. And I spelled it out this way is Hillary was so unlikable and was such the, she's like the epitome of, of feminism. She's like the most foaming at the mouth. You know, if you, if you want to say like, you know, what does a feminist look like? You're gonna, you're gonna go to Hillary Clinton. Right? You're gonna look at her, she's like, she's like, she's like this Kaiju of you know, feminism, right. There's only, there's only one other person, one male on planet Earth that is as big a Kaiju as, you know. You know, it's like Godzilla versus Rodan or something. And it's. And you got, so you've got Hillary on one side and then you've got Trump on the other side. Trump is the only one who is so over the top masculine that he could possibly be a contender against somebody who is so over the top feminist as, as she is. And so, like, if you think about it this way, though, everybody thought that Hillary was going to win. So much so that Newsweek had the covers already prepared for it. What was it? Remember that show House of Cards? House of Cards changed the plot of House of Cards. Expecting there to be a female president in the super bowl ads of, well, I guess it would have been 2017 at that point. The super bowl ads had to all go back and rejigger all of their super bowl ads that they'd shot six months prior because they shot them with the intention of, you know, building up little girls to be the next female president because they were so certain that Hillary was going to be the next or the first female president thought she.

[Ian Cross]

Was going to win.

[Tim Pool]

Everybody thought that. And he whips in there and nobody wanted.

[Ian Cross]

Let me tell you about one of the greatest days of my life. I was sitting there watching the New York Times probability meter greater than 99% Hillary Clinton. And then every 10 minutes, every few minutes, it's just moving. I remember when I got to 50, 50 and I'm sitting there and I'm just, I'm sorry, I put my feet up, I'm laughing. And then I remember when it ticked over to Trump winning, I didn't vote for Trump. I just absolutely loved watching Hillary Clinton get just destroyed in the election because I can't stand these people. But I will say this. J.D. vance, tall guy. Don Jr. Tall guy. Charlie Kirk, he was like eight feet tall. Yeah, yeah. I think he was six, five. Right?

[Tate Brown]

Yeah. Well, because it contributes to, like, it's tough to quantify aura, but aura genuinely does come into play. This is like why Howard Dean got smoked in the polls right after that scream because he lost all his aura.

[Ian Cross]

You also want, we're hiring a military commander and you want a tall man that can see over the heads of the dudes in front of him. I mean, that's the genetic, real animalistic reason. We want a tall man, deep voice as well.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

Let's jump to this story from Politico Maga Infighting erupts at Turning Point USA Conference to the night's headliners Ben Shapiro and Tucker Carlson threw jabs at each other in their speeches. And I'm hearing now that people are like, it's pretty tense because you've got different factions now that are basically going to odds with each other. Check this out from Dom Lucre. This is a video of them kicking out fresh from the Fresh and Fit podcast. Look at this. So he's filming. This is fresh filming.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. Thanks for being cool about it, man.

[Ian Cross]

Cool. But did it say what I did or something or.

[Tate Brown]

No, I got nothing.

[Tim Pool]

Damn. All right, think about this.

[Tate Brown]

Well, you tell apparently I don't know why, but yep.

[Ian Cross]

That's crazy, right? Right. Apparently they also barred Myon from coming in as well. But then later reverse and let them both come back in. They both got back in. I think it's very obvious there is a MAGA civil war. And I'm telling you, I think who's going to win is going to be the Romneysque conservatives and then the. I'll put it, I'll put it like this because we talked about a little bit yesterday. I got asked by a reporter from the Wall Street Journal about what I thought was going on and I said, well, we weren't invited. They invited me back after the fact for whatever reason. And I was like, we're booked, I'm just not gonna do it. And I gotta be honest, I really, I really don't wanna be there with this, with all the stuff going on with all this bickering, bitching, infighting. I don't know what is going on with this. But I will tell you this, I do not care for the suit wearing Republican Party. Never did. Democrats are absolutely insane. They're insane people who do things that are insane for insane reasons. For that reason I voted for Republicans. Donald Trump's different. I like JD Vance, but I don't like the stodgy Bush era suit wearing conservatives. And what Amfest is turning into is guy in suit comes out says Christianity guy and suit comes out says Immigration. And I'm like, well it's not really for me. Now you've got infighting now you've got the people screaming about Zajuz. And I'm just like, you know, if that's the direction you're going, I'm not interested. And so I'll say this one thing. Jillian Michaels, shout out. She's on that show with PBD's. What was it? Her take? Yeah, called her and they're like, let's make a view for real people. And this viral clip happened where anarchist Barron brings up Israel again and Gillian Michael goes, oh my God, I did not come here to just talk about Israel nonstop. And she gets up and leaves. The anti Israel people framed it as though Gillian refused to criticize Israel. The real story is that Anakin Sparron brings up Israel all the time. And Gillian's actual complaint is I get it already. Can we talk about something else? If this is the direction they're going, it's gonna be ze Jews with like Candace Owens or it's going to be suit wearing Bush era interventionist boring. No, like I'm not there now don't get me wrong. I don't know who the in the Democratic Party I'm voting for because they're insane too. But I have a potential prediction based on what we're seeing now with the mega civil war. What if you want to call it. I don't know how likely it will be, but I believe there's a decent probability a Rogan esque Democrat emerges. I mean like Joe Rogan esque who says I don't know what's going on with the Republicans. He's going to be wearing a flannel. He's going to be like big into mma. He's going to be a reasonable guy. He's going to be friends with comedians and he's going to say the Republicans are going weird on me, man, just like the Democrats used to. I'm gonna try and save the Democratic Party and bring it back to normalcy. And then this person could advocate against the weird trans and the kids stuff. Push out the weird far lefty cultural stuff. Keep the far left, the economic stuff and be someone who appears reasonable to working class Americans and actually win. Republicans are still have a better approval rating than Democrats.

[Tim Pool]

Democrats are still in the toilet.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah. So I mean the Republicans still could make something out of this.

[Tim Pool]

But if they're fighting with each other.

[Ian Cross]

About, you know, who's going to actually be in charge of the Republican Party because that's the sense that I get.

[Tim Pool]

About, about the Amfest stuff.

[Ian Cross]

Right. Like the, the, the fight is now. Okay. We want to keep the people that we find, you know, offensive or we find distasteful. We want to keep them out and we want this to go back to the, the kind of Romney esque, normal, quote unquote Republicans. But that's not what the MAGA coalition is. The MAGA coalition wasn't expl.

[Tim Pool]

Exclusive.

[Ian Cross]

It didn't kick people out. And so Republicans can make something of this and capitalize on really historic low favorability for the Democrats. But if they're going to exclude people, they're going to be giving away votes.

[Tate Brown]

Well, I think there's two points. I mean, one, I do think Vance is probably the only person in the party right now that's capable of stitching the coalition together. He's demonstrated that he is the best at framing probably in the entire Republican Party. I was talking to Phil earlier about this. I. The moment that I really realized Vance is the guy. I mean, I always liked him, I always supported him, and I was excited when he was a VP candidate. But when I realized, like, oh, this is the guy for 28 was after the Politico article came out about the group chat leak. And, you know, everyone on the right was like, kind of unsure to handle it. Do we condemn these kids? We throw them under the bus? And then Vance comes out and says, I don't really care about a group chat leak when the AG candidate in Virginia is threatening to kill Republicans. Like, you guys need to clean up your side before we ever consider, like, you know, hall monitoring our side. So I do think Vance is probably the only guy that's capable of stitching that coalition together. But the knives are out for him from both the neocons and sort of the groiper aligned people. But I do think with the Democrats, they're going to struggle to actually present sort of a moderate MMA type of guy because they're beholden to their base. And that's sort of the issue in the Democrat Party is the base has no appetite whatsoever to.

[Ian Cross]

Something happened to send you a video. Oh, right now. Oh, right on. Shout out to freshman fit there. They're in Amfest now. I'm glad they got in. I just think next year they're not gonna be let in. You know what I mean?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

And that's gonna be bad for the Republican Party.

[Tate Brown]

Well, no, I was gonna say that their base has no appetite to moderate right now. And then here's the primary issue for a moderate Democrat, if they were to try to emerge on the national scene, is they're also beholden to staffers. And so when you're trying to staff a campaign, when you're trying to staff an administration, the problem is in the Democrat Party on the left is they're all functionally activists. They all believe they're in perpetual revolution. And so, okay, let's say, okay, maybe a Rogan type of guy does come along who's maybe a bit more moderate. He's gonna instantly get pushed to the left by his staff. Like it's not a one man army. A political campaign is really a conglomeration of everybody within that.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, I just, to your point, I just saw a tweet earlier, Owen Wilson.

[Tim Pool]

Who's the guy or no, Owen Jones.

[Ian Cross]

I'm sorry, Owen Jones, he's a politico in, he's a commentator in the UK and he made, he, he misgendered someone in some kind of online discussion or.

[Tim Pool]

Whatever and he was getting lambasted by people. So that the idea that woke has gone away is, is totally wrong and.

[Ian Cross]

That'S still very, very influential on the left.

[Tim Pool]

So the, so someone that would be a Rogan esque kind of every man's man.

[Ian Cross]

The feminists are not going to get behind him. The intersectionalists are not going to get behind.

[Tim Pool]

I, I'm glad you brought up, I'm glad you brought up Rogan esque because the first thing that happened right after Trump got into office, you have all these talk shows that were talking how did we lose? I can't believe we're trying to analyze how they lost. And the very first thing they said was, you know, well, it's, I think it was Dana Bash was the first one to mention that. We're living in the manosphere right now. And literally I still have that, I still have that clip. But I watched all these talk shows in the sort of aftermath of the election and they were all saying, well, we don't have a Jordan Peterson, we don't have a Theo Vaughn, we don't have a Joe Rogan, we don't have a, you know, some, somebody who's like popular with the, the boys. You know, how do we get the men to come back to the, to the, to, to the Democrat Party? You never had them in the first place. In fact, you actively ran them out of the party. But now they're trying to, I'm seeing the rise of this sort of character right now and I'm gonna, just gonna use Scott Galloway as the, as the example here. But Scott Galloway is that he's the safest, you know, edgelord that there is right now. And he'll go on Oprah, he'll go on, you know, he'll go on with, with Chris Williamson who go at these guys and it's always these half measures but it always comes back to sort of, you know, he's, he wants to address the fact that, you know, young men are having issues and problems these days. But then he'll turn around somehow and make it the same people's fault for that. But I see what they're trying to do. They're trying to sort of groom a figure. I'm not saying they're going to run Scott Galloway as a presidential candidate, but somebody like him who has that kind of gravitas, I guess, that a Rogan does, or like that sort of online podcast or sort of voice that they can relate to, I think that's probably a direction they want to go.

[Ian Cross]

I agree with you guys on the there's a lot of feminists, but the same way we are seeing the icing out of the people on the right, I would not be surprised to see, as these people keep saying, where's our left wing Joe Rogan with yeah, maybe we need to get rid of these whackaloons. And so you will start seeing. It's not difficult to do. You can easily like, look what's happening with Candace. She's the center stage of the conspiracy conspirator, right? And it's not even right wing. I mean, she's attracting liberals. This may actually rope all of them, all of the fringe weirdos, into a space where you get moderate conservatives and moderate liberals largely agreeing. And then you have the whackaloon left with the whackaloon right together because they hate Israel. Like, one of the things I tweeted was the future left right divide is going to be those who are ambivalent to pro Israel and those who hate Israel. Because Anakin Sperrian is now a Candace Owens fan and the young Turks audience in the comment section are big Candace Owens fans. They have found their unity in hating Israel and that's gonna be some other weird faction. And then moderates are gonna be like, well, you know, you're gonna start. I would not be surprised. I'm not saying it's true. If CNN starts saying these people are just plum crazy starts trying to bring it back.

[Tim Pool]

Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.

[Ian Cross]

Zoe, this thing weighs a ton. Drew Ski, lift with your legs, man.

[Tate Brown]

Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[Ian Cross]

He's talking to you, Bridges. I'm not. Of course he did.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Ian Cross]

Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

[Tim Pool]

And elf, I'm six' three.

[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

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[Tim Pool]

In needed when you switch.

[Ian Cross]

So you can keep your old phone.

[Tim Pool]

Or give it as a gift.

[Ian Cross]

And the best part, you can make the switch to T mobile from your phone in just minute A Just 15 minutes. Nice. My side of the tree is slipping. The holidays are better.

[Tate Brown]

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[Tim Pool]

Minutes and get iPhone 17 on us.

[Tate Brown]

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[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

Well, I mean you're starting to see the Democrats try to like you're talking about, try to sort of get people to pass, get their candidates to pass the sniff test for like sort of what masculine politics would look like. Like there's this Senate. There's a Senate candidate in Maine, Graham Platner. And he does the thing where he wears the flannel and like he cuts these ads where he's like chopping wood and he's like, tries to talk in a really deep voice, but he tries to like sell these policies that are inherently like really gay in a, in a way that would pass the sniff test for like normal people. And so he'll like cut an ad where he's like, you know what I hate to see? I hate when these chuds misgender. A beautiful trans woman. So it's like, it's got the facade of like a tough man. I think he was like a Marine or something. But the problem is these guys are just so beholden to their base because the ones that aren't, the ones that are actually pushing maybe more towards the middle, they get completely lambasted by the Democrats. Like, look at how they've treated John Fetterman.

[Ian Cross]

Let's. Let's jump to the story we've got breaking from Amfest. This is a speech by Vivek Ramaswamy roasting the idea of heritage Americans about.

[Tim Pool]

Criticizing the woke left.

[Ian Cross]

Now let me get to the harder part. There's a different vision of American identity that's emergent in certain corridors of the online right. And it says that your identity as.

[Tim Pool]

An American is based on your lineage.

[Ian Cross]

That how long you have been in the country, your lineage and your genetics tied to the blood and soil of the country, determines how American you are. It is the idea of a heritage American that says the truest form of an American is somebody who is a descendant of the American Revolution period or before. And I will tell you this idea of the heritage American.

[Tim Pool]

We ought to have this discussion.

[Ian Cross]

It's becoming more popular. I think the idea of a heritage American is about as loony as anything.

[Tim Pool]

The woke left has actually put up.

[Ian Cross]

There is no American who is more.

[Tim Pool]

American than somebody else.

[Ian Cross]

The American quality, it's not like the left. They believe in this non binary stuff. There's no non binary American.

[Tate Brown]

It is binary.

[Ian Cross]

Either you're an American or you're not.

[Tim Pool]

And you think about, I could prove this to you.

[Ian Cross]

Thank you. I'll take some applause on that. Let's hear it. Prove it to me. If you really believe in this idea, think about where it leads you. Leads you to believe that Donald Trump is less of an American than Joe.

[Tim Pool]

Biden because Donald Trump's mother was an immigrant and his grandfather was an immigrant. That doesn't make any sense.

[Ian Cross]

Leads you believe that somehow Bernie Sanders is more of an American than Senator.

[Tim Pool]

Bernie Moreno from my home state, an America first patriot.

[Ian Cross]

Because Bernie Moreno was a naturalized citizen from Colombia. It makes you think that Marco Rubio, our great Secretary of State, is somehow less of an American than Elizabeth Warren because she's a Native American, which we all know, right? Doesn't make any sense.

[Tate Brown]

It's loony.

[Ian Cross]

It's crazy talk. It makes you believe that somehow I am less of an American than the transgender criminal who assassinated Charlie Kirk. We refuse to accept that the idea that a heritage American is a more American than another American is un American at its core. And I will fight to the very end for that because that's what it means to be an American. We believe in ideals.

[Tim Pool]

That is who we are.

[Ian Cross]

So take a look at where Amfest is going and where the right is going. And it is very, very easy to understand. And I will explain it all to you. We have no babies. Yes, we are missing a major portion of our entry level labor market. Universities are starting to collapse because there's no matriculation. That's your word, remember, means entering university. Because in 2008, with the financial crash, people like me didn't have babies. So now we have a generation half the size as the previous generation. The powers that be want immigrants in this country. They don't care about baseball and apple pieces. They don't care about truth, just in the American way. Those are secondary to graph go up. I believe this is the direction the Republican Party, Republicans and Democrats together are going to make as many arguments as they can that everyone is an American. And I will explain it to Vivek. I like Vivek. First, a heritage American in the lightest example is not as he described, that Joe Biden's family was here longer than Trump. So he's more American. That's not the argument. The argument is if your grandparents were here, you are a heritage American. Which means even starting today, if a family comes here and they have kids and those kids are raised, they're saying it's like third generation, basically people who have stronger ties to the country and what it was built out to be. It doesn't mean before the Revolutionary War. That is a straw man. There's an argument from people who are saying my grandfather built, helped build town hall. They brought in Haitian migrants into my town, and now they are voting against me. My family fought and died for my ability to have a good life. That's the argument. What about my great grandfather was a drunken boxer and a total abusive loser that contributed next to nothing to society. But he was in a. He was here. I am not standing here to say that Vivek is wrong when he says the transgender assassin was more American than he is. I think Vivek is a great American. I believe that he is a great patriot. I like what Vivek largely does and I am criticizing him in this particular point. Vivek obviously views the world this way because he comes from a family of immigrants. So this is always going to be what's happening. And I predicted this perfectly. And I'll make it very short for you because I need to tell the story all over again. But imagine a scenario where 200 years ago, a guy has a farm and there's no neighbors. And over a period of time, of decades, a small town builds up. All the dads come together and they say, let's build a baseball field together for our kids and so we can play baseball. They have grandkids. And those grandkids say, let's vote in favor of revitalizing Granddad's baseball park. We're going to put up a statue in his honor with his name on it. They vote yes. Then that guy has a grandkid, and the baseball field is in disrepair. And they say, town hall, I vote in favor of repairing the baseball field. Their tax dollars. And they say, all in favor. And everyone claps and cheers and screams, and they go, all opposed. And a larger group boos and says nay. And that group are the Haitian migrants that were brought in by the Democrats and the Republicans because there's not enough people. Now, the tradition, the lifeblood, the legacy, the memory is voted against by newcomers who came here through temporary protected status or otherwise. That's the issue. Now the question is, are the Haitian migrants wrong to vote against allocating funding for a baseball field? No, they're not. They say we should spend that money on an immigration welcome center. Too many Haitian migrants in this town don't speak English and don't know how to work or get jobs. So is it wrong as an incorrect? No. Is it wrong as an immoral? I'd argue no. It is just not good for the people whose families built the place and want to sustain it. That a whole influx of a massive influx of people displaces them and then votes against their cultural interests. That is not a good thing because it leads to racial animosity, cultural animosity, and violence between peoples. So this argument, this heritage, Americans, if you actually want to understand it, is a fine argument. I would still argue that a crackpot leftist whose family's been here for 100 years is a bad person and Vivek is a good person. But I think it's important to point out that, to be honest, I'm not very interested in the political opinions of foreigners in America. I value an American communist's opinion more than an Indian migrant's opinion because they are Americans and we have a system where we debate and negotiate. That being said, I hope they lose. Their ideology is ridiculous. And if they're like Dinesh d', Sud, I'll put it like this. The ultimate conclusion of Vivek Ramaswamy's argument is a man born in China should be able to become president if he becomes naturalized, because there's no such Thing as a heritage American. Yeah, but the Constitution says otherwise.

[Tate Brown]

Well, what Vivek is doing here is really pernicious and people need to watch out for. This is the play that he is putting out here. What he's proposing is he's using American as an adjective rather than a noun. Where every other nationality on planet Earth, it's used as a noun. He's using it as a. An adjective. And the reason he is doing this is because fundamentally, he does not believe that anybody that has any lineage in this country is entitled to the country. What he is doing is he's dividing the world between Americans and future Americans because he views it as an adjective. And that's a really sinister thing that he's doing. That's why he's straw manning the argument. And also, it's very convenient for someone named Vivek Ramaswamy to view it in this.

[Ian Cross]

And do you think someone born in China grew up there? They're 35. They moved to the United States after a few years, they get their citizenship. Should they be allowed to be president? No. So there is a heritage American. You got to be born in the country to be the president. The Constitution says so. Which means Vivek is not correct when he says Americans are all Americans. Well, I think he's circumventing a problem that could happen in a future where people are like, how American are you? And you're like second generation. They're like, that ain't American enough. The Constitution already says this. I know, but he's doing the moral argument about how to treat each other going forward as Americans. Like, if your parents came here from.

[Tim Pool]

India and you were born here and.

[Ian Cross]

You'Re totally Americanized, you're basically as American as I am.

[Tate Brown]

That's the problem is we're using.

[Ian Cross]

That's. That's. That's. If again, using it as an adjective, as the way that, you know, Tate is mentioning it, you're an American in that someone had to do a card saying, congratulations, you are legally an American. And so therefore, the question about what makes someone an American. We have cultural traditions, we have heritage. Yeah. Driving on the right side of the road, you know, baseball and apple pie, Christmas morning. All those things. Yeah. Jingle bells, all that stuff.

[Tate Brown]

This is what he's trying to. What he's trying to, like, sell. What he's trying to pass off here is the idea of the propositional nation. And this is the problem. This is what the left has been proposing for the last 50 years, like post really 1960s, when this idea of the propositional nation came about. So he's fundamentally using a leftist argument. Again, I'll say it is. He's using American as an adjective and that we're the only country on earth that is supposed to do that. It makes zero sense.

[Tim Pool]

I got a question. You guys remember when Arnold Schwarzenegger became the governor of California back in, what, the mid-2000s, something like that? And everybody wanted him to run for president, but he couldn't not run for president because he was not a naturalized citizen. Right. He immigrated here, and I guess he patrioted to the United States. Now, I mean, can you think of anybody more American than, you know than Arnold Schwarzenegger? Right up until, like, the COVID you know, pandemic and everything.

[Ian Cross]

But what do you say? Fuck your freedom.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, fuck your freedom. Yeah, that was a. That was a real misstep. But, like, up until that point, you know, he was. He was an American success story. So is he more American than somebody who was, like, natural?

[Ian Cross]

Here's a question.

[Tim Pool]

Everybody wanted him to be president.

[Ian Cross]

Here's a question for you. Who would you rather have as president? Dinesh d' Souza or AOC it's when.

[Tate Brown]

You'Re present with that binary.

[Ian Cross]

That's a question. It's not rhetorical. I'm asking the question. Dinesh d' Souza or AOC Dinesh d', Souza, hands down. But guess what? He wasn't born here. Right.

[Tate Brown]

But I guess the problem with.

[Tim Pool]

Are we sure AOC was.

[Tate Brown]

Well, the problem with Arnold is Arnold is an exception to the norm. Like, that's the issue here, is like, we can cite Arnold, but that's the reason is we have to dig to think of an actual example of someone that has moved to this country and then is exceptionally sort of. If we are to sort of step into the adjective framework, okay, he would be considered like someone that is, you know, very American, but he's an exception to the norm. And I don't think, like, when we're sort of, you know, drawing up policy, we should build it on exceptions. I think the norm has been certainly over the last 60 years that people that have moved to this country just simply don't feel a deeper sense of rootedness to this country that heritage Americans do. And that's why that's a useful definition. And I mean, like, I'm descended. I have, like, Mayflower descent. But I mean, I think Jack Posobic has laid this out quite well because he obviously came a little bit later, but he's sort of sorted American ness into these categories. Then you have the antebellum people that arrived in the 19th century, up until Ellis island, these are people that had to earn skin in the game through these moments in American history. Like the American Civil War was great. All those people that came in the antebellum period then bought into the system. Same thing with the Ellis Islanders. The world wars break out, they buy into the system. But even when the Ellis Islanders came, like, you know, your Italians, the Irish, that they had a lot of problems assimilating the United States, it took about like 40, 50, it was a long time it took to process these people and fundamentally assimilate them. And so the problem right now, among others, with the way immigration has broken down over the last 60 years, is it's the volume of immigrants, because we've brought in so many that you can't assimilate people because they just built. They sort of fall into these ethnic enclaves. They're not actually interacting with Americans. And so it's been the volume, fundamentally, that's the issue. And that's why people like me and Phil have proposed net zero migration, because that allows the America to sort of get the boot off of its neck. Allow these people to properly assimilate before we even consider bringing in more people.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, okay, so. So knowing that, is that why you think someone like Vivek is making, like, planting the seeds of this sort of idea that like maybe like naturalized citizens should be able to run for president?

[Tate Brown]

He's upholding the propositional nation.

[Ian Cross]

There's, there's, there's one reason the powers that be understand our system will buckle without new labor to sustain its economy. That's it. Republicans understand it the same as Democrats, but the right populist movement wants to preserve its cultural traditions more than it wants to preserve its economy. Because to a working class guy making $60,000 a year, he says, I don't care about your banking institutions. I don't care about your 401ks. He's like, I struggle to make ends meet as it is. I wanna go toss a pigskin with my kid. And so when you go to him and say, but how about we bring in 50,000 Haitians to your town? He says, why do I want that? And they say, well, because we need the tax base for the roads, because we need the tax base to put up buildings and to fund wars and the troops, they're gonna say no to that. But the machine state does not care. And so I'm not putting this all on Vivek. The obvious direction the Republican Party is going to go is going to be very much along with the left where they're gonna say, all immigrants are welcome. There will be a segment, I think, of the Republican Party that's gonna say. That gets more. I don't know if racist is the right word, but more nationalist, more puritanical about, like, if your blood isn't American, then you're not a real American. How long have you. Has your family been here? And that's like, Nazi Germany. And there will be a segment of people like that. But I think, because the inevitability of homogenization, I don't think it can really. Let me just. I'll say this right now, because apparently it's being reported. Steve Bannon says Ben Shapiro was jealous of Charlie Kirk and will try to take over Turning Point. Ben Shapiro was like a cancer. A cancer that spread. And that cancer spread.

[Tate Brown]

Gosh. Wow.

[Ian Cross]

Well, he called out Bannon, too. Yeah. No, I got a question. Sorry to interrupt. Like, kind of derail. I just saw this. Why would I want to be there and be involved in this? To make it better. So you mean, like, I should go up on stage and also accuse other people and say, oh, that would make it worse. How am I gonna make it better? Guys, please, can we hug up? If you did that, I'd go there to do that. Even if you were there for, like, 30 seconds and you went on stage and was like, oh, holy, holy fireworks. This is what I saw when they said they weren't going to invite us. I said, I can see what's going on. And I don't. I. I'm not. It's not fun. It doesn't. There was something magical about it with this big vision that Charlie had. And whatever it is now is not fun. I feel like Charlie, the Turning Point machine is like a heavy snowball, and it's, like, like, difficult to wield, and it's got so much momentum once it gets moving. But Charlie didn't seem to care. He was like, whatever. I'll juggle this like I juggle everything else. 100 million. Okay, whatever. Let's have fun, guys. Like, he really wanted it. And I think maybe the bureaucrats at Turning Point, whoever's in charge of the.

[Tim Pool]

Bureaucracy, is more concerned about not messing up.

[Ian Cross]

Charlie didn't have this.

[Tate Brown]

Well, it just illustrates the issue that what's happening right now is all these guys are getting up on stage and they're settling scores. I mean, that's what we're seeing here with Vivek is he clearly is really bothered by the discourse around heritage Americans. People just simply saying, hey, can we have what everybody else has? Which is like a sense of self identity. Because like, the problem with Vivek's argument fundamentally is that if we are to start denaturalizing people, which needs to happen, then you're gonna have to ask the question, okay, well, who is indistinguishably American? That's the conversation that has to have. And if we set up what he's proposing, this propositional nation, it's gonna be impossible to naturalize anybody because he could denaturalize someone from Oregon who's antifa, but their family's been in the country for 400 years. And that's what's so annoying, is seeing guys like him get up when we should be focused. We're like getting hammered in the polls right now, approaching the midterms. And these guys like Vivek, like Shapiro, these sorts of people are getting up on stage and they're using it as an opportunity to settle scores.

[Ian Cross]

Mark my words. If the Democrats win the presidency, they will pack the courts, they will end the filibuster overnight. There will be a lawsuit challenging the constitutional provision on citizenship. Provision requiring citizenship for the presidency. The Democrat Supreme Court will rule it unconstitutional on its face. And this is not an amendment. This is actually in the Constitution that you have to be born here. And they're going to say, since the argument they'll make is this country has changed markedly in the past 250 years with the 14th Amendment and the recognition that those who are born here are citizens. Questions must be asked about the intention of the Constitution when it said you must be born here. Well, as many of these slaves who were born here were not citizens and only be. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now.

[Tate Brown]

T mobile is in US cellular stores.

[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

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[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

The difference it makes for your child.

[Ian Cross]

Oregon CHARTER ACADEMY what learning should be became citizens after the fact but would be eligible to be president. The same rights must be afforded anyone who is granted legitimate citizenship, for there can be no second class citizen. And to argue that someone who is legally granted citizenship cannot hold office would make them second class in the eyes of the Constitution, which is unconstitutional. So here found by the Supreme Court. Yeah, and then you're going to get Xi Zhang Fei, he's gonna move to America, he's gonna get his citizenship and he's going to say, the interests of America are the interests of communist China. Vote for me, they will vote for him. And then you're gonna have the interests of China and America. People go to bed and then they wake up in five years maybe, but people, I don't think anybody. I mean there's. Sorry, Tate, what are you going to say?

[Tate Brown]

No, I would just say. Well, I mean, the issue with this is why this is a battle that's worth having. Because the problem is if you're using American as an adjective rather than a noun, a noun has a definition that cannot change an adjective. The definition is in flux. It's spitting on who's in power. Because if the Democrats are in power and it's unmitigated, unrivaled power, they can then sort of alter what the definition of American is. And they can say, Zoron is exceptionally American because he believes in lifting everyone up. And Americans don't leave anyone behind. Therefore we're gonna abolish the 14th Amendment or alter the sort of definition of it. So that way Zoran Mamdani, because he's so American, can run for president. Cuz that's why this is such a horrible, horrible argument. Because using American as an adjective again is just subject to whoever's in power defining what Americanism is.

[Ian Cross]

If he was using it as a noun only, wouldn't that just mean that everybody born here is an American? End of story.

[Tate Brown]

Well, that's the argument around heritage American is. Okay, we need to define what is an American because we had an ethnogenic genesis as a people that occurred following its founding. And so you can sort of tighten ranks a little bit and say, okay, just because someone was born here and they have paperwork doesn't mean they're an American. That's just someone that was born here.

[Ian Cross]

I'm gonna also add the idea that we started doing this, you're an Italian American. The fact that we had qualifiers. So I was American already signified 100 and some odd years ago that people were not just Americans. I asked people, are you a Jewish American or are you an American Jew? Because where's your loyalties lie?

[Tate Brown]

It's Teddy Roosevelt. Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

And what about the USS Liberty? I mean, come on, I want to know. Rockets coming out of those planes. Wave after wave. Liberty. To take to Tate's point, Teddy Roosevelt didn't. You know, he did really make a great point. Like, if you're a hyphenated American, that means that you're. You're in some way considering yourself something.

[Tim Pool]

Other than an American.

[Tate Brown]

One foot up the door.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

And that shouldn't be an acceptable state of affairs when you're dealing with people that are going to be deciding policy.

[Tim Pool]

For the United States.

[Ian Cross]

Like, you should be an American. Yeah. And regardless of how you define heritage American or what have you, if you.

[Tim Pool]

Think of yourself as a hyphenated American.

[Ian Cross]

If you think of yourself as something.

[Tim Pool]

Other than an American, that should be.

[Ian Cross]

In my opinion, enough to disqualify you from holding office.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah. I mean, because people. The reality is people have really deep connections to the places they're from, and it's really hard to break someone out of that. And I understand there's immigrants that have come to the country and they have completely left the old world behind, and they truly feel 100% American. But those people are in the minority because what's happening is, again, that's human nature. It's not necessarily a bad thing that you have a deep connection to your ancestral homeland. That's why you're seeing these Somalis that have come to Minnesota immediately, game the system, scam the government out of a bunch of money and send it back to Somalia, because that's where they feel attachment to.

[Ian Cross]

Okay, I have to jump to the story. Senator Mike Lee, would you like to seize cartel assets as a privateer? My bill would allow the President to issue a letter of marquee.

[Tim Pool]

Yes.

[Ian Cross]

Time to take these pirates down. No, no, Mike, Mike, rephrase that post. Would you like to be a pirate? Yes, I would be. A boat and a gun storming those ships. I legitimately have friends that saw this, and they were.

[Tim Pool]

There's a group chat that we have.

[Ian Cross]

And they're like, bro, these dudes are.

[Tim Pool]

These dude. One of the dudes used to.

[Ian Cross]

He was a Blackwater guy.

[Tim Pool]

He'd been to.

[Ian Cross]

He'd done private security and stuff, and he's like, yo, let's go.

[Tate Brown]

We can finally put these Somalis to use.

[Ian Cross]

But why is he calling them the pirates, bro? When you're a privateer with a letter of mark. You are the pirate. That's the point. He should have said, would you like to be a pirate? Because now you literally can. And they should even give you a Jolly Roger to fly on your ship when they send you out with your letter of mark. Although no one really did that. But it'd be funny.

[Tate Brown]

A bunch of rednecks on pontoon boats with Jolly Rogers flying.

[Ian Cross]

Bro. Could you imagine it's like 15 Appalachian dudes who like working with a PMC and they bring in this, like, massive tanker full of oil and they're now worth $50 million. Erik Prince saw that and like, he.

[Tim Pool]

I'm sure that he was just like, let's go. Because he was talking about trying to.

[Ian Cross]

Get this off the ground recently. So awesome. Erik Prince, the guys in Blackwater, like, those dudes that are. That are still capable, like, yeah, they're like, man, we don't have an Iraq to go fight in. I had a great time.

[Tim Pool]

Let's go.

[Ian Cross]

And. And I'm not kidding. You can disagree and disapprove of this attitude, but there are dudes that have been to war that really want to go back. Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

Erik Prince was on. It was a Bronze Age, Bronze Age perverts podcast, and he talked about at length how the world is entering sort of this PMC era. And it's actually kind of just a return to tradition where you had privateers, where you had mercenaries and these sorts of things. That's historically this. Colonial powers got things done. So we are heading into a world where if you want to get all.

[Tim Pool]

These kids out of their basements, stroking off the por. Lost generation, man. Give him a pirates at and go.

[Ian Cross]

The total value of a full standard oil tanker on sea. $150 million.

[Tate Brown]

That's generational wealth, bro.

[Ian Cross]

Yes, generation. Like, we need to make a movie about this. It's just like a handful of PMCs. You. Have you. Have you guys seen the movie? What is it? It's with Jason Statham and he. What is it called? Is it Working Man? Maybe.

[Tate Brown]

I don't know.

[Ian Cross]

He. His job as a security guard. And then the backstory is basically that he's a mob boss. He and his kid, he was staking out something for his team. Working Man. Yeah. It's these PMCs who are broke and they're like, I missed the action. And so they stage a heist on armored vehicles to make money. You make a movie where it's these like, Semi half retired PMCs who are like, the jobs are just drying up and then they see the bill passed. Letters of Marc being issued to seize Venezuelan tankers. I'm gonna blow the plot, but it should be that they get a tanker that has some super high tech thing on board that the American government want and then they issue letters of mark for them and they're on the run from the other.

[Tim Pool]

You just gave somebody $100 million blockbuster movie.

[Ian Cross]

I just read it's terrible at movie. That was awful. I think the movie is literally supposed to be. They are pirates. You didn't listen if you thought it was awful. Because the point of the letter of Marcus to seize oil that is valuable. If you want to make. If you want to make Captain America where he flies from a helicopter and then. And then fights Bartok, do it. No, no, I'm saying you need a problem in the movie, not a sci fi drama where they're trying to find the golden eyes. You need an. I'm talking about a military movie where guys steal oil, but you need something bad to happen in the movie for it to be good. Yes, Something horrible has to change.

[Tim Pool]

Pulp Fiction in the middle of the movie.

[Ian Cross]

It's just like I mentioned, like working men. A group of PMCs are down on their luck. They can't find work. They get a letter of marque and the movie is about them taking down a Venezuelan oil taker for $150 million. And then the movie ends with them cashing out and fizz bumping. It could be an action movie.

[Tate Brown]

No, it's just free market. Top Gun.

[Ian Cross]

It'd be great, right? I mean, I would go see that. I would go see that.

[Tate Brown]

No, Yeah, I mean, we're entering that. I mean, that's just the reality. If you look around, all of these PMCs emerging because you saw like in the 80s and 90s, you had people like Mark Thatcher, like Neil Ellis, who conducted these PMC activities in Africa, but it was at a very small scale. And then oftentimes Western governments, the United States, France, the UK would try to hamstring them as much as possible while we're entering this new era where the Trump administration is really just taking the boot off of the neck of these guys who want to do these, these really cool, dramatic things in Africa. And then also, like, a lot of these African nations hire these PMCs because they're like, hey, we kind of like Western democracy. I don't know if we want you guys to impose it, but maybe you can help us develop it on our own. And so they utilize these PMCs to bring like prosperity to These countries. And so I think we're actually entering, like, a really exciting era of the world. And look, this would be a massive, massive again, another boot lifting off the neck, so to speak, for these guys if they can just get, like, licenses to go and privateer and the Caribbean. That's the thing, is this is why America's behind the ball, because the Chinese and Russians have been doing this for years. I mean, like, Wagner Group, that's Wagner Group's main thing, has been operating in Africa. And, okay, they are associated with the Russians, at least in the Eastern European theater. But in Africa, the Wagner group's basically just running loose. And they've pushed out, like, the French Foreign Legion, a lot of these British peacekeeping forces, just. They've just pushed him out because these dudes are just hungry.

[Ian Cross]

What happens if someone takes the letter, Mark? They go down to the Caribbean, they think they're doing good, they end up blowing up a civilian boat unintentionally? Are they considered like, hey, you're on your own now. You took the letter. If you mess up, you're dead and we're going to kill you? Well, the US Wouldn't do the killing, but the US Would, would likely allow.

[Tim Pool]

The government that you people, Venezuela.

[Ian Cross]

And then would the US Government protect them if they got back to US Territory? You don't actually need a letter of mark to storm and seize a Venezuelan ship. Yeah, that's true, of course. Right? The letter of Marcus. Protection within the United States.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

Yes.

[Ian Cross]

But if you. So if you go out and kill, like, innocent Venezuelans on the open sea, will they still protect you? You're making an argument about specific circumstances of international incident which could vary in a million different ways. If you accidentally, like, let's say there's a privateer warship and it fires on a tanker, but misses and hits a small fishing vessel, there's gonna be questions about whether it was a legitimate action sanctioned by the US Government, in which case they'll probably say, you're fine. Now, if you're a PMC and you're like, we got a letter of Mark. Let's go kill civilians. They're gonna lock you up.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we had an incident recently in the Congo where there was two Americans, and I think they had, like, a British buddy with them. And for a variety of reasons, the Congolese government, this is the drc, so the big Congo. And for a variety of reasons, they sort of accused these guys of. Of attempting a coup, which was crazy because it was like three of them and a few locals and they executed the Americans and I think. Or the execution's pending. And as far as I can tell, the American government isn't really interested in intervening because they believe that the Congolese have a valid reason to carry this out. So I think that's to say that I think the Americans, if this happened on Foreign Soul and they catch you, they just cut you loose.

[Ian Cross]

Yep.

[Tate Brown]

I mean, unless you make it back to Miami, then you're probably good because we don't have extradition treaty with Venezuela. Like, there's no need for us to go to back that for them.

[Ian Cross]

So, so I mean, and, and look, the. There are PMCs in the US like, like I said, you know, Eric Prince is. I don't know what is his company's called now, but they're very capable. You know, they, they have the weaponry that it would be required to do this type of stuff. They have dudes that, A lot of the dudes that get out of the Special Forces or get out of direct action teams, they're like, man, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't worth staying in the military because you're not, you don't get paid enough. But when I get done, I mean, I'll make 250k a year to go and do private military contracting. It's.

[Tim Pool]

It's big bucks.

[Tate Brown]

We already see. I mean, a lot of these guys, they just also can't get the fighting sort of thing. They have trouble reintegrating. These guys that have seen heavy combat have trouble reintegrating into society. So what you're seeing is like in the French Foreign Legion, for example, which is just. They're, they're called legionnaires. I'm sure everybody's familiar with the French Foreign Legion is, I believe the makeup of the French Foreign legion is like 50% Slavic. It's like former Yugoslavian guy. Because these are dudes in the 90s and early 2000s who saw some like, brutal combat. And then granted the economies of their home countries were pretty bad. So not only did they have a tough time reintegrate. Reintegrating into society because of what they saw, but they also had trouble finding jobs. So they just went and joined the French Foreign Legion because they were like, hey, that's at least going to give me a life beyond this. I'm having trouble reintegrating to society. So there's like a precedent set. Granted. I don't know in America if we have a large enough volume of guys that have experienced that sort of thing. So you would have to incentivize Them with, like, additional income and these sorts of things. Really sweet.

[Tim Pool]

I can just see the guys at Palantir just going, oh, yeah, that'll be a contract.

[Ian Cross]

Absolutely.

[Tim Pool]

You know, Orbital Strike, you know, sky.

[Tate Brown]

Cannon, they're gonna be like, using like, COD weapons on these guys.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, no joke.

[Tate Brown]

They're gonna pack a bunch of guns.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, I mean, it's the, the motivation is there. The, the, the PMCs have the, the capability, like I said. And also, again, this is, this is.

[Tim Pool]

Very lucrative because these guys, these guys.

[Ian Cross]

Can make a lot of money. I know a bunch of dudes that, you know, back when it was, when.

[Tim Pool]

It was Iraq and Blackwater stuff, they.

[Ian Cross]

Were making, you know, six figures very easily. And six figures 15 years ago in.

[Tim Pool]

Iraq is a lot of money.

[Ian Cross]

It's different than six figures nowadays, you.

[Tate Brown]

Know, and the nice thing about the PMCs is that they actually are quite. They tighten their ranks quite effectively. Not to again cite back to the French Foreign Legion, but one problem the French Foreign Legion had when they were operating in West Africa is they would recruit a lot of guys that were also from West Africa. So what happened is they would join the French Foreign Legion, get deployed back to their home countries, and they would just go and settle scores the entire time while they were there. And they were like, well, we have impunity because we have the FFL backing us. So the nice thing about PMCs is the ranks are super tight and they only hire Special Forces guys like these. So it actually lets these countries that would be hiring PMCs to be rest assured that these guys aren't going to act up and start settling scores left and right.

[Tim Pool]

Right.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

And that happens in Africa. Like their militaries, they. They had. They like deploy their native, their domestic military, and the guys just abandoned the mission. He instantly start burning villages down and stuff.

[Ian Cross]

Go get the. Go get the guys that are.

[Tim Pool]

That pissed me off.

[Ian Cross]

Exactly 50 years or whatever. So. But I do think that, that it's something that you will see in the future.

[Tate Brown]

Oh, yeah, yeah, no, we're heading into it and it's a really exciting time. If you're a young guy, you're looking for adventure and you have that fighting spirit. I mean, there's an argument made that the US Military can't offer that for you anymore. So if there's like a private enterprise solution for that where you can still get that experience in life, make some good money, and then actually have like, missions and stories that are like, cool.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

And you could do that.

[Ian Cross]

I don't, I don't Know, I mean, I'm not sure what kind of training they offer because most of the time they pick up dudes that have already.

[Tate Brown]

So you got to go to like.

[Ian Cross]

I got a question, though. You know, you ever notice that you'll see like a couple walking down the street and they dress like each other? You know about this. It's like a normal. It's like a known phenomenon. And it kind of makes sense, right? If you're a guy who dresses like some, like, I don't know, long haired, freaky person and with maybe wearing like some kind of weird orange jacket or something. And you sound goofy when you talk crazy person with him. And then when he's dating someone, he has someone who looks just like he does. But no, I mean, in all seriousness. And it's that people adopt an identity, a style from their culture, from where they come from, things that make sense. There is a large, largely American identity in American culture. The reason I bring this up is, you know, my wife and I are very, very, very similar. We grew up in almost the same place. We are both lapsed Catholic. We like the same music. It's probably why we got married. It's like we get along in all these things. We want the same things. We view the world very similarly for these young guys. Now the issue is they've not grown up with anybody. They don't have an external community where they build identity. They're watching weirdos on the Internet who dress like, like, you know, anime waifus or something. So when they go and meet a woman in person, they're, they're, they're just.

[Tim Pool]

Guys. Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe.

[Ian Cross]

This thing weighs a ton. Drewski, live with your legs, man.

[Tate Brown]

Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[Ian Cross]

He's talking to you, Bridges. I'm not. Of course he did. Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

[Tim Pool]

And elf, I'm six' three.

[Ian Cross]

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[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

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[Tate Brown]

They're deracinated. Yeah, I mean that's like the perfect deployment of the word because it's true. It's like, how do you get these guys who are fundamentally speaking, we were talking about the other day with music, how with zoomers, men and women listen to completely different music. There's not any artists that cross over, have crossover appeal for both sexes because zoomer men and zoomer women live in two completely different paradigms. You'll see this, you'll see this phenomena actually play out on Instagram is every once in a while I will get a reel that's like clearly targeted towards women. And then you'll see the comments and then it'll be like a male in there, he's like, guys, I'm deep behind enemy lines. Like I don't know what they're talking about. And it's true. It's like, it really illustrates to the point is like we have a very tough time relating to the other sex because it's just two completely different worlds. And at this part, I mean, you're seeing in South Korea the divergence politically, I think that's where we're heading towards is where men and women not only do they not speak the same language, they don't really have any cultural touch points to share, but they legitimately do not view the world the same way. Fundamentally. I don't know how you make a marriage work in that instance.

[Tim Pool]

Well, I mean, Roland can talk to this.

[Ian Cross]

The damage that feminism has done to.

[Tim Pool]

Society, just overall, you know. Well, I mean, there's been like a separation between men and women for a long time. It's like the boys on one side of the playground, the girls on the other side of the playground. And we're just seeing that play out in different, different factions right now or different contexts, I guess. So whether it's music or it's political affiliation, I mean, you guys have talked about this I don't know how many times in the divide between men and women politically right now. And I think her name was Helen Andrews.

[Tate Brown]

Helen Andrews, Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

I'm sure you probably. Yeah, so he probably already have heard her. Was it TED Talk or something like that? Well, she was talking about how pretty much everything that we consider woke today is really part of the female psyche. So when women organize society, it's more in the round, it's more egalitarian. It's more because of the way as human beings in hunter gatherer tribes, women were the berry pickers and the gatherers and men were the hunters and they would go out. So when women organize societies, it's in a more egalitarian, communitarian way because there's strength in numbers, the vulnerable sex, they are nurturing children, they're incubating babies. That's why women have that value. Men organize societies in hierarchies. So there's the admiral at the top and the general and all down chain of command, all the way down to the private, or if we're talking about workplace, there's the CEO, the CEO, the CFO, and on down to the janitor, right? So when men organize societies, it's based on hierarchies. And so like for, for men, our hierarchies today are built around what, what you're, how you perform, like, what's your, what are your achievements, what makes you respectable. And like when I, I mean, I've been reading a lot of these stories lately about how we're going to teach these boys how to be respectful to women.

[Ian Cross]

Right?

[Tim Pool]

Well, there's two different forms of respect. There's a hierarchical respect, which is what do you do that makes you respectable on that hierarchy, which is the way that men organize societies. And then there's, there's, everyone is deserving of respect and you get some respect and you get some respect and you get some respect, which looks like participation trophy, you know, version of respect where everybody sort of has this common thing and that's more the female way of doing it. And so when people say we're going to teach boys to respect women, and it's like the boys are there going, what makes them respectable? Because that's their frame of reference, their natural frame of reference. So when we're talking about the divide about, you know, men and women coming together and having some things in common right now, I think one of the reasons why we're so separated in the sexes right now is because we fundamentally don't know how to organize like our own disparate tribes right now. That's why you see more women gravitating towards liberal wokesy side of the political spectrum and you see way more men coming over. And I don't think it's ever been as the contrast has never been as stark as it is right now.

[Ian Cross]

So repeal the 19th.

[Tim Pool]

God, I hate that question because it's like, like it's, it's redundant to me at this point.

[Ian Cross]

I don't, I don't want to.

[Tim Pool]

I don't either because I don't think it's tenable and I really, I hate when people don't you think we should do that? If we just repealed the 19th or we took women's rights away, everything would be, would change. I'm like, okay, first of all, how are you going to do that? That's like, it's like we're going to have a revolution in the anarchy. Okay, what's your plan of restructuring society after that?

[Ian Cross]

Right?

[Tim Pool]

Like if you want to go out and like fuck things up, okay, good, go do that. But what happens afterwards? You know, what's your plan after that?

[Ian Cross]

I think would be. My pitch is a very simple solution. And actually this is, I was interviewing with Vivek Ramaswamy and this is where the idea came from. It might be his idea. Require everybody to apply for selective service and then you receive a voter id. It's not a guarantee of solving the problem, but it's a large inhibitor because you will, you go to Times Square and you'll see some like random, just like urban street guy, maybe he's got a fanny pack with some dollar bills in it it. And you'll be like, you want to vote? He'll be like, yeah, sure. And you'll be like, just sign up for the draft. He'll go, nah. And he's out. Yeah, well, I mean every, every conservative would be like, yes, yeah, exactly.

[Tate Brown]

Well, that's because to the point, like right wing thought is inherently hierarchical. To your point, yeah, it was Helen Andrews, the great feminization and compact magazine. Like everyone has to read that if you want to fundamentally understand why things are getting very gay. It's very true. But right wing thought is inherently, yeah, it's inherently hierarchical. But something really interesting you see with, with sort of the female coded sort of ideology is that they simultaneously seek egalitarianism for egalitarianism sake, but they also have a massive outgroup preference. So what that looks like in practice is total egalitarianism, which is what they're pushing towards in the United States in combination with mass migration. So you basically create these massive social programs. This is all across the west, massive social programs. We also flood the country with people from, like, foreigners. So then they can take advantage of those programs that were intended to sort of level out society. And it's. I mean, it's demonic. I mean, because hierarchy, like, you know, hierarchy truly understood. Right wing thought. Truly understood. The reason we have a hierarchy is we. We believe it was ordained by a divine. We believe it was ordained by a God. Because otherwise who set up that hierarchy? It has to be someone. It had to be something to set this in order. And yeah, that's why you're seeing things. That's why you're seeing the men gravitate towards right wing thought, the women gravitate towards left wing thought is because like Rolo talked about is that's just the.

[Tim Pool]

Psyche we're looking at, like, you know, natural, like sexual dimorphism. Like when men are, you know, men bear a greater risk going out and doing the hunting, going out and doing the fighting, going out and, you know, protecting the tribe.

[Ian Cross]

I'm gonna do something I've only ever done one at a time. I'm gonna take a phone call right now.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, boy.

[Ian Cross]

I'll be back in a few minutes because there's like a scoop and I, I'm. We may want to have it on this show.

[Tim Pool]

Okay.

[Ian Cross]

It has to do with something going on at Amfest.

[Tate Brown]

Let's go.

[Ian Cross]

And so I'm like, can you give us a maybe. I was actually thinking just pressing call and going for it, but I don't know what it is just yet. And I don't know if they want to actually come out and say it. So I'm gonna go take this quick call. Give me, give me a minute. But to roll it. Can you expand on that some more? So that way people kind of understand. Because I think a lot of times people think that, you know, there's a.

[Tim Pool]

Lot of edgy young guys.

[Ian Cross]

And so that's what kind of like repeal the 19th is, right? It's edgy young guys kind of making jokes and stuff. But I think that these, these topics are actually, I mean, and again, you'll, you'll clarify.

[Tim Pool]

But it's. It's something that's. That's very deep in who we are.

[Ian Cross]

You know, you're talking about the, the hunter gatherer versus the.

[Tim Pool]

Or hunting and, versus gathering and, and.

[Ian Cross]

Taking care of the tribe.

[Tim Pool]

So why don't you expand on that? Well, you know, I tell you what's funny is, is I've heard this repeated by people recently who I have probably been listening to my show for a while. But whenever I talk about this, it's usually talking about how responsibility without authority is slavery. Right. What we don't do is we don't talk about the reverse of that, which is, you know, 100% authority without any responsibility is tyranny. Yeah. So when you look at those two things, that's. That's the definition of, you know, slavery versus tyranny. And then I wrote about this in a couple of essays on my sub stack, by the way, where I have sort of defined what the difference is between gynocentrism and androcentrism versus matriarchy and patriarchy. Right. So right now you hear everybody talking about how everything is gynocentric right now, where everything is. It's. It's based on a female correct way of interpreting the human experience. Right. Whether that's political, whether that's pop culture, whether that's religion, whether it doesn't matter what the context is, it's just the correct way to experience life is to experience it as a woman and for men to do anything masculine. As at this point, and I mean this in the terms of conventionally masculine, I don't use the term traditional masculinity very often because lots of people have different traditions. Right. But from a conventionally masculine perspective, if you look at patriarchy, patriarchy is a far more balanced way of organizing society than gynocentrism or androcentrism for that matter. Because what gynocentrism is and androcentrism is, is there are forms of tyranny, meaning that in androcentrism, let's say, for example, example, men have all the authority and zero percent responsibility. And that's like in the Handmaiden's Tale, you know, like. Like Gilead, where it's all the women are just forced into, you know, pregnancies and stuff like that. And then we have gynocentrism, which is the reverse of that. And then you've got patriarchy, which puts power and authority in men's hands, but they still have responsibility to their families and their wives and their kids. And. But they are. They are given the authority to affect those responsibilities. And that's where I think a lot of traditional conservative thought really kind of fails right now. Because until they can acknowledge the fact that if you want men to be more responsible and man up and Take Bootstraps. Bootstraps, Bootstraps. You want them to be more responsible. You're not going to solve the world's problems or solve the gender issues with just adding more and more responsibility on there and not giving these guys the. The authority to affect that responsibility in the first place. Until traditional conservatives can accept that, then we're just going to keep having this conversation over and over and over again. Where are we at?

[Ian Cross]

So that was Fresh.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, my God.

[Ian Cross]

And he's like, this is crazy. Let me tell you what happened. And he was like, I want to. He's like, maybe we could do a video or something. And I was like, do you want me. Just hold the phone to the microphone. You can explain what went down. And then he was like, man, let me send you a video and then play the video. So he's recording something right now. And he told me a little bit so far, but what he told me so far was that he has a VIP pass. He's. He was. He was a guest.

[Tim Pool]

Really?

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, he's on Rumble. And he said. He said he walked on and went to the Rumble area or whatever and was just chilling. He didn't do anything. He was there for like 10 minutes when six cops showed up and surrounded him and said, you have to leave. And he was like, holy crap. So then he. He said. He started. I was like, whoa, wait, hold. Hold on, hold on. I was like, you want me to just pull the phone up, cuz? And he was like, well, let me send you a video. So if he sends us a video. And I. I don't know if it's going to sound good or not, but, you know, that's where we're at. Okay, all right. My. My money. I'm like, it's our last show of the year. I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do, so maybe we'll just. We'll just do it live. My money is on. His buddy smelled like pot. But they were like, what? I didn't smell it. What are you talking about? My money is on. Somebody was like, myron Gaines is an anti Semite who posts happy merchants and stuff. Don't let them come in. And when Fresh showed up, they're like, that's one of the guys. Get him out of here. And they also barred Myron from getting in. And then I think Rumble probably was like, no. And I think someone probably higher up at Turning Point was like, guys, what are you doing? This is gonna be a disaster for us. Let him back in. But I don't know for sure yet.

[Tim Pool]

Let me tell you on Twitter, man, they were Johnny on the spot with us too. Cause as soon as they saw, saw Myron waiting by this escalator like waiting to get in like they were denying him entry to to tpusa and I, so I, I text Myron and I said well dude, they're saying that you can't get in. Like what's going on? He's like no, no, they're gonna let us in. But then I go back to Twitter and they're like they kicked him out and they won't let him in and like just jump to all these really quick conclusions as fast as they possibly could. And then like for fresh it was like, oh, it's because you hang out with Myron and Myers and anti Semite.

[Ian Cross]

And I bet that's, I bet that's it.

[Tim Pool]

It's a association bro.

[Ian Cross]

I'm telling you next year AM fest is going to be guys in suits saying Christian, it's going to be cpac.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

Will James o' Keefe have another big party next year? Perhaps. But Matt, I said this before, I'll say it again. I told Charlie this last year, bro, you have created the next south by Southwest.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

Daily Wire, cigar party. James o' Keefe had a party. We were talking about, you know what's really, really sad? We were discussing having a Tim cast party in Phoenix, Arizona for the end of the year because for the past three years our last show of the year was on stage with this massive audience. Ian falls off the stage. The first year it was crazy. And not anymore. Not anymore. So what would have been more and more pop ups surrounding the event? Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now.

[Tate Brown]

T mobile is in US cellular stores.

[Ian Cross]

Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits, credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required and creating this massive festival I think is likely just going to start shrinking and kicking people out and then it will just be cpac. Do you go to cpac? I don't.

[Tim Pool]

I have a question. So are they still. I don't know if they're still doing this but tpusa, I think that they did this last year. They have the women's Ministry Day, where it's just nothing but the girls talking. Are they doing that at this one? Because at the last one they had Nala Ray on there. I'm just, like, wondering who the reformed porn star is going to be as a guest speaker for this one.

[Ian Cross]

I guess there's only. So you can only be so cool if you're not into the arts. Without the arts, it's hard to actually be cool. It's a very. Seems like it's a very political spectacle. Well, I mean, again, like the.

[Tim Pool]

It will be such a loss if.

[Ian Cross]

This turns into the right trying to exclude people because they, you know, don't.

[Tim Pool]

Like an opinion that they have. That's exactly what crushed the left. That's why people hate the left now.

[Ian Cross]

You know, that's why the Democrat Party has such a low approval rating. They took people that were considered cool.

[Tim Pool]

Like Joe Rogan, and because he was.

[Ian Cross]

You know, just a normal guy that was completely comfortable voting Democrat, then they ran him out, and then they say, well, why don't we have any guys?

[Tim Pool]

Well, it's because you got rid of them all, you know, and, you know, to the.

[Ian Cross]

To the point that you were making the. The amount of influence by. By the feminist kind of, you know, the feminist intersectionals in the Democrat Party.

[Tim Pool]

By trying to make sure that everybody is. That nobody steps on anyone's toes, that.

[Ian Cross]

Nobody says anything that someone else doesn't like. They've managed to run out basically all.

[Tim Pool]

Of the young men.

[Ian Cross]

They've been telling young men, you're evil.

[Tim Pool]

You're the problem in America.

[Ian Cross]

And there isn't anybody that's actually hitting the brakes in the Democrat Party. Maybe there are people that are considered Democrats or what have you, or Democrat mouthpieces in the. In the commenter space, but nobody in political office.

[Tim Pool]

I was gonna say you would. I would think that the people of the TPUSA would be welcoming Myron Gaines with open arms there because. What was it? Kamala Harris, in her. Her latest book, her. Her biography or whatever it was on the. On the election, mentions by name the reason why she lost the election was Andrew Tate and Myron Gaines. But why names? Well, okay, so when Mike was here, my partner, Mike Sartain, on Access Vegas, he was saying the same thing. He said this was the election of the. Of the podcasters. This was the election. The reason why the left hates the red pill so much is because it convinces black voters to vote for Trump. That's why. And sure as shit, that's what happened with, With Kamala. She even admits it in the book. So I think that's pretty much proof positive right there. But it was, it was speaking to a demographic of, of, of young men who otherwise felt unheard, and that's where they would gravitate towards. I mean, I can remember as far 2016 when people in the church were coming and saying, where are all the men in the church? Well, they're in the manosphere. They're here. They're right here. They're talking to me. They're talking to everyone else in the manosphere at this point. Joe Rogan wasn't even a factor back then. And the fact that they would even use Joe Rogan or Theo Vaughn or Jordan Peterson as examples of guys who were in the manosphere going on. Rogan Rogan openly hates the red pill. Openly hates the manosphere. Even, even, even Jordan Peterson, you know, despises the manosphere. But they're using them because they're just the most obvious, you know, household names that they can find. But there's a lot more people out there than just. I mean, if you think the red pill begins and ends with Andrew Tate, I got news for you. Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

So apparently there's something crazy happening, and I don't know exactly just why, but one of the.

[Tim Pool]

Please tell me it wasn't a shooting.

[Ian Cross]

No, no, no, no. Some people are claiming it's because he's black, which is silly. This is absolutely ridiculous. However, it may have something to do with defending Candace Owens. That's the, the rumor that's going around. I don't know for sure. It's not confirmed.

[Tim Pool]

She's been on a show a few.

[Ian Cross]

Times, but I, I, I was saying I think it's, you know, I don't, I don't know if I would argue. My first assumption is that it's related to Candace. I assume it's that they want to excise that segment of the right that has been embracing this. I mean, Nick Fuentes getting called up by Ben Shapiro. Candace.

[Tim Pool]

Then why invite them as VIPs?

[Ian Cross]

I think it's a big organization. A lot of employees. No, no, they didn't know. They didn't know.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, bureaucracy.

[Ian Cross]

You know, we've, you know, we've had instances. We've done shows, and then someone shows up and one guy working the door doesn't know this guy's not allowed in or something, and it happens. And then they had to walk it back because it was making them look really bad. I think, I think Amfest is like, I already said this. I think it's Going to turn into cpac. I don't go to cpac. I don't care about cpac. It's meaningless to me. Amfest was crazy. It was fun. Yeah. You know, so actually the quartering is.

[Tim Pool]

In the, in the chat right now.

[Ian Cross]

Saying he literally just talked to him.

[Tim Pool]

He's totally fine.

[Ian Cross]

Like we talked that AmFest at 3pm he's totally fine.

[Tim Pool]

He was not banned.

[Ian Cross]

We talked at Amfest Thursday and Friday which I mean that lines up with kind of the story.

[Tim Pool]

You know, he was let back in.

[Ian Cross]

I don't know if he told there there is. The question is why was he initially removed? And there's no real reason just yet. There are some rumors circulating. Obviously one because he's black is stupid. That's a made up joke I guess that kick out someone from being black. But some people are speculating that it's his involvement with Candace Owens and his support of her or something like that. Yeah, I mean that to me makes the most sense. I think it's because the Fresh and Fit podcast asked what who was it that there was. They got called out because every time someone mentioned something Jewish they'd play a cat register noise. Like that's probably why. Yeah. You know, but they gave him VIP tickets. Come on guys, who's doing this? A big organization with a lot of people, bro.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. And VIP tickets might be because of the, the Rumble affiliation.

[Ian Cross]

Yep. You know, there's something that's true.

[Tim Pool]

You know, someone at Rumble's like hey, make sure these guys get in. Someone's like oh yeah, fine.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

Gives them the VIP rubble, gets a.

[Ian Cross]

Blanket of passes to hand out and then you know, and I mean that's just speculation.

[Tim Pool]

But they called the police, the actual police to it's not like the security that's on, on, on the really stream.

[Ian Cross]

That's why I thought pot. But even that you wouldn't call six. I don't know. He was there with a couple dudes. What do that dress. That means he smokes pot.

[Tim Pool]

You know. Yeah, I mean maybe he doesn't mind.

[Ian Cross]

Oh sorry, you were saying?

[Tim Pool]

No, I mean I just, I, I.

[Ian Cross]

I think it's, I think it's silly and I think that it's a, a.

[Tim Pool]

Problem for the right.

[Ian Cross]

You know, the, the Republicans are in a, a or at least the right is in a position to have, you.

[Tim Pool]

Know, significant influence on the culture and.

[Ian Cross]

And not just on the culture but also on, on policy. And if you can't settle these kind of disagreements without starting to excommunicate people and Saying, you're not allowed here, here.

[Tim Pool]

You'Re going to turn a bunch of voters off.

[Ian Cross]

Right. If there's a guy, Young guys out there that are like, oh, I like Andrew Tate, or I like Nick Fuentes, they make me laugh. I don't agree with all the stuff they say, but it's funny and I like them. And then you. Then they hear that these people are.

[Tim Pool]

Not welcome, they're going to say, well, that means that I'm right.

[Ian Cross]

But, but just, just, just name for me one conservative that speaks masculinity to young men.

[Tim Pool]

Nope, Nobody conservative.

[Tate Brown]

Santos.

[Ian Cross]

Who does Turning Point in the Republican Party have that is inspiring young men to be stronger, faster, better. Who?

[Tim Pool]

Nobody. Blank. I want to say Nick Frietos, but he's. I don't know if he's associated Bobby.

[Ian Cross]

Ken. I don't.

[Tim Pool]

I don't necessarily agree with him, but I think he would be one that they would get as, like, the poster boy for something.

[Ian Cross]

Freedom needs a louder megaphone. You've got Andrew Tate. He's telling young men, be strong, be powerful, Take shit over.

[Tim Pool]

You're the boss, make money, get girls. I'm not that guy.

[Ian Cross]

And these young guys are like, I wanna be powerful, successful. I wanna be a fighter. These are the things that men are driven to want. And the right offers up nobody.

[Tate Brown]

Well, I think Donald Trump exemplifies those things without saying it explicitly. That's why people are drawn to Donald Trump, because.

[Ian Cross]

No, come on. He's morbidly obese.

[Tate Brown]

Because it's like, it's more than.

[Ian Cross]

Well, no, it's not fair. He did lose a lot of weight, but he's an overweight guy who doesn't exercise because he thinks he's a bat. His body's a battery.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

That you burn energy off. You have fun at energy.

[Tate Brown]

But people view these things beyond aesthetics. They view things as, like, actually accumulating power, accumulating wealth, accumulating influence. And Donald Trump is. That's why he's so popular with young men. That's why he was like, he gets.

[Ian Cross]

Some of that for sure.

[Tim Pool]

I can tell you exactly why the, like, conservatism has a problem with really getting to that appeal. Having that spokesperson. That's. That is not an Andrew Tate. It's because you end up at the same place that feminism comes around. And I get this all the time because people want to tell me that the red pill is just the flip side of feminism. It's just feminism for men. I'm like, no, actually, that's traditional conservatism. Because it winds up in the same place it is. Man up, get a job, get out of your, you know, everything that Andrew Tate says. I could go do all this great stuff, but then take it all. Go get married, have kids, and do whatever your wife says. And if you look at the guys who are sort of emblematic of like the standup guy, the traditional conservative husband and father, which Charlie Kirk ostensibly was at that time, he's still serving a female end at the end of all of that. So the purpose of becoming a better guy is not. Not to intrinsically do it for yourself to be, you know, to, to build yourself up to be a better man just because that's what you want to be. It's be a better man because women really need better men. So please, we need. We need to solve women's problems by you becoming a better man. Right, which is the. Exactly the same. Same result or the same end point that you end up with when it comes to feminism, which is do all this stuff. We still want men to. We want men to man down, but we want them to man up when we need them to man up, because it's all for. For our own benefit. So when the red pill comes in and we kind of exist in this kind of like in between, it's really weird in between area between those two, people think that we're intrinsically misogynist or whatever. It's. All we're doing is we're just offering information and education so that you can protect yourself and make better decisions for yourself. To say, this is what I want, this is not what I want. It's not about trying to be an ideology or a philosophy or a. Or a cult or religion or a set of practices or anything. All fundamentally, at its core, the red pill is just about educating people and putting that data out there. The problem that everybody has is that when you give people facts, you have to tell them how to feel about it. You can't give them facts without telling them how to feel about it, because if you don't, they will hate you for that. Or they will infer that the reason you're telling me this data and these facts right now is because you want me to believe a certain way thing. Or are you on my. Are you on my team or are you on their team? And that's really what they're trying to suss out the whole time. When you're just throwing out facts and figures right there and allowing them to make their own decisions based on what those are, what works best. For you, Tate and I were talking about this a little bit today.

[Ian Cross]

Like the, at the end of the day, even people on the right that think that they, they analyze things and.

[Tim Pool]

They make the decision that's best based.

[Ian Cross]

On thought and logic and, and reason and so stuff, you're still, as a.

[Tim Pool]

Human being, you're still making an emotional decision, right?

[Ian Cross]

This is because it's what you think will provide you with the best emotional outcomes.

[Tim Pool]

Everybody has, everybody has game. Okay? Everyone has game. How effective that game is, is really what, is what? Well, a lot of people you go and you ask a 10 year old kid like, you know, how do you go and get a girlfriend? Johnny? That kid probably has a pretty well thought out way to go. You be your friend and you do this, you do this, that he probably figured how effective that is is different. Now if you take that and you extrapolate that into like ideology and you religion or political stripe or what are you going to do for a living, that kind of those kinds of questions right there, it really comes down to what are best practices. So when people come at me and they say, well you know, Rollo, it's all these, these black pill doomers. It's mgtow, you know, men going their own way or it's the white pill, it's the black pill, it's this pill, that's that pill. Whatever those are practices, those are people who've taken that data and go, you know what? Given the information I have right now, the best thing to do is just not play the game. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. And that's a practice. That's not the red pill. You've just taken the data from the red pill to extrapolate from that, what you think you ought to do. That's why you got looks. Max who's like clavicular right now, just goes to the nth degree to make himself look like, you know, like crate.

[Ian Cross]

Mannequin.

[Tim Pool]

Mannequin. Yeah. And, but that's what he thinks is the best practice.

[Ian Cross]

Well, he's wrong. It works where he is.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not a fan, but, but I, yeah, I understand how he gets there.

[Ian Cross]

I don't think young. A lot of young Gen Z guys have any game.

[Tim Pool]

Don't know. No, no, they think they do. But the thing is is that how effective is that game? They'll throw it out there, get rejected, and then they'll have to go back and rethink it again.

[Tate Brown]

Clavicular. He's kind of the natural conclusion of the black pill in which Sort of accepts he's the.

[Tim Pool]

Everything reduces the logical extreme.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah, right. Yeah. It's just like he realizes that everything is reduced down to aesthetics or at least that's the presupposition he accepts. And so therefore if you looks Max, if you maximize your looks and you'll achieve whatever you want in life because that's just applying a reading to women or to life in general. That again everything just reduces down to like mathematical.

[Tim Pool]

Whenever I see Clavicular it's like I can just sort of see the chubby kid underneath the mask. I could just go. Because his look is not congruent with how he speaks and how he presents and how it telegraphs his, his, his, his game I guess for lack of a better term. But how he projects his personality. He's kind of like the fat kid who lost a lot of weight and still thinks he's a fat kid, you know?

[Tate Brown]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

And he hasn't quite come to grips with the fact that he's not, that he's not anymore. Yeah. And so he's still operating like his social skills are still operating from the perspective of I'm a fat kid and these girls are going to reject me anyways. But they're not, they're actually giving him the time of day and he doesn't know what to do about it.

[Ian Cross]

I was thinking about the normal 30, 40 years ago before the Internet. Someone's black pilled. They're kind of like. And they complain a lot. They just don't have friends. And then they get isolated. People don't want to be around them and then they go away. Maybe you never see them again. But now with Internet video they can make videos and get a following.

[Tim Pool]

Microculture spread the nihilism.

[Ian Cross]

It's fucking crazy that that apathetic sloth like sin of a state of mind could possibly infect other people through this. Technology is crazy easy. That's so dangerous too. It needs to be addressed like on the, on the. Because like free speech, I can't tell you to stop. And when you're, if you're getting money for doing it because all it takes is ad revenue based on how many people.

[Tim Pool]

I'm gonna tell you this right now is I, I, I agree with you 100. I also think that a lot of the, a lot of the, the stereotypes and a lot of the, the, you know, the caricatures of these guys ends up getting overblown or, or the things that are sort of attributed to the red pill are overblown because we have so many damn bots these days we have so much. You know, like the best thing I was just going to say is the best thing that Elon Musk ever did with Twitter is give you the guys. Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.

[Ian Cross]

Zoe. This thing weighs a ton. Drewy, lift with your legs, man. Santa.

[Tate Brown]

Santa, did you get my letter?

[Ian Cross]

He's talking to you, Bridges. I'm not that. Of course, of course he did. Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list and elf. I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile. You can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right, Mrs. Claus? I'm Mrs. Claus's much younger sister and.

[Tate Brown]

AT T Mobile, there's no trade in.

[Tim Pool]

Needed when you switch.

[Ian Cross]

So you can keep your old phone.

[Tate Brown]

Or give it as a gift.

[Ian Cross]

And the best part, you can make the switch to T mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes. Nice. My side of the tree is slipping.

[Tate Brown]

Kimber.

[Ian Cross]

The holidays are better.

[Tate Brown]

AT T Mobile switch in just 15.

[Tim Pool]

Minutes and get iPhone 17 on us.

[Ian Cross]

With no trade in needed.

[Tate Brown]

And now T Mobile is available in.

[Ian Cross]

US cellular stores with three full monthly bill credits for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 connection charge credits and imbalance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Financing Agreement 256Gates. $830 eligible for in a new line. $100 plus a month plan with auto payments, taxes and fees required. Check out 15 minutes or less per line. Visit t mobile.com High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a SOFI personal loan. A loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got super speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more. That's s o f I.com p o w e r loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply.

[Tim Pool]

NMLS 696891 the ability to figure out the country of origin of that of.

[Ian Cross]

That profile and banning bots.

[Tim Pool]

Oh my God. Yeah, I'm banning bots too. But going to those, those bot farms in Pakistan, in India, in Nigeria, south and East Asia is one of them as well. And there's so many of these, their engagement farms is what they're doing is because Elon, you know you can get paid on, on Twitter for you know, for your engagement stuff. So what do they do? They go and they just find the most aggravating, most agit prop questions that they can find. And usually those are the ones like can you believe this woman did this? Can you believe what? Do you think this woman would last 10 seconds in this country? Or something like that.

[Ian Cross]

So it's like nihilism bots have been.

[Tim Pool]

Unleashed on more or less. Yeah, but that's what gets engagement.

[Ian Cross]

Oh my God, I'm an idiot. It don't surprise me. Tim's getting all formatting set up. My phone was pressing on the keyboard. I'm like, why aren't the buttons? I was like, what's happening? So you think the nihilism bots are contributing to the black pill?

[Tim Pool]

Okay, so I think that the, the incentive for them like is just basically money.

[Ian Cross]

Right.

[Tim Pool]

I mean what's going to get the most eyes on the screen? What's going to cause the most indignation? It's going to be open ended questions and it's usually going to be like something that reinforces a pre existing belief and particularly about women. And so go ahead.

[Ian Cross]

No, I'm going to change subjects. You're good. I want to jump to this clip. We got this from Turning Point. Tim Cass News posted, of course, Steve Bannon unloads on Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro calling him a lifelong never true Trumper.

[Tim Pool]

Now Benji Shapiro sat up here last night and he was all, you know.

[Ian Cross]

I'm going, you know, it's all about the truth. Ben, I've known you a long time, brother. You can't handle the truth.

[Tim Pool]

Let's face it, Ben, Ben Shapiro is the farthest thing from Maga.

[Ian Cross]

Let's be blunt. Wow. Wow. And he is a hardcore never Trumper. He's a hardcore never Trumper.

[Tim Pool]

In the spring of 16, he tried to upend Breitbart. He walked off the job, made a big deal about some incident in Mar a Lago with Corey Lewandowski. He tried to turn it to Ted.

[Ian Cross]

Cruz from Donald Trump because he hated Donald Trump.

[Tim Pool]

In the general election, he barely supported Donald Trump. The first sign of when President Trump gets sent back to Mar a Lago.

[Ian Cross]

The very first individual that jumped on the Ron DeSantis train, the Israel first.

[Tim Pool]

Transit train was Ben Shapiro.

[Ian Cross]

And those are the darkest days we.

[Tim Pool]

Had in 21 and 22, you guys were there. He's consistently been against Trump. And now that President Trump doesn't back.

[Ian Cross]

The Greater Israel Project. What is Greater Israel?

[Tim Pool]

It's not about Israel, Israel itself. It's about an expansionist Israel, an imperial Israel.

[Ian Cross]

That Netanyahu and that Crowd have thought up.

[Tim Pool]

And the Israel first crowd is Ben Shapiro, Tel Aviv, Mark Levin and many.

[Ian Cross]

Others that want to put that ahead of America's interests.

[Tate Brown]

It's like a primary.

[Ian Cross]

It sounds like primary.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ian Cross]

They're fighting for who's in control.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

And it's Israel. No, no, I mean, the argument they're making is pro or anti Israel. Israel. I don't care at all.

[Tate Brown]

The new conservative wedge, bro.

[Ian Cross]

If, if this, if, if I'm gonna sit down, have a debate with someone and they're like, let's discuss Israel. I'm gonna say I don't care.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

Like right now there's this plan. We didn't get into the story about how they want to turn Gaza. Was this tweet. Yeah. Into a high tech, you know, Mara, Gaza or whatever. And in that context, I have no problem talking about it to news, like everything else. But if they're just having this literal debate about the merits of Israel, I'm just like, this is boring me. Yeah. I would much rather. I would much rather. Ian, explain to me his latest bread recipe. Recipe that intrigues me. Sourdough, do you have a starter? Not yet. See, that's the question. I want to use it. Yeah. If, like, would you make a new mother dough and then pass it down to. Yeah, you keep it in the cupboard. It's infinitely more interesting than debating Israel.

[Tate Brown]

I knew a girl, it's a fourth generation mother dough. So her great grandmother put it together for real. Yep. And this is testimony more fascinating than an Israel debate.

[Tim Pool]

I'm already involved.

[Ian Cross]

The point is that this. I don't mind having having a debate over the, like, the. I don't, I don't mind discussing Israel's interests, lobbying and all those things. It's just that it's every fucking second for these people. It's like, yeah, you turn this on. And he was like, the thing is, something about. He didn't like Trump. He's. He likes him less than him. Trump. He does like Trump. He doesn't like Trump. And I'm like, it's like a video game in my repertoire of a thousand games that is real annoying that I don't want to play right now. Now talking about Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. I know president politics, it's a big part of the world, but dear God, it is not the way to solve the problem. This is like, I completely agree. He's not getting up on stage and saying, tax policy has gone crazy. Border security, Venezuela. He's saying, Ben Shapiro. I don't like And I'm looking at this, like, ben Shapiro comes out and says, candace Owens, Tucker, ban it. They're all bad. Did he call Megyn Kelly, too? I think he did, right?

[Tim Pool]

I don't know.

[Ian Cross]

I didn't see him. And then they come out and they make fun of him, and I'm like, is this what. Listen, there's a lot of people at Turning Point that I like. I got no beef with Ben or Bannon. Jack is a good dude. He's a great friend. So I got no beef with the people at Turning Point. But, guys, there's literally no organization here. You know what they were doing? There was no one going, guys, whatever you do, we're not gonna. We do not want you to go up on stage and just rag on each other. Send a positive message on what you believe and leave the drama outside. Because it's not what Turning Points about. No. Instead, it's like.

[Tim Pool]

It's.

[Ian Cross]

It's. It's wwe. Yeah. You guys.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

This is what they should do. They want me, like, listen, okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. They first don't invite us, and then I say they're not inviting us, then they try to invite us, but you really want me to sit there just listening to Bannon rag on Ben B. Ben rag on Bannon, Tucker, then go. He's so popular. Guys, with respect to each and every one of you, because I got no beef. I literally don't care. Why would I want to go and stand in an audience and listen to a speech by Bannon about Ben Shapiro? I don't care. It's just absolutely insane. You know what? My view of the infighting is boring. What I want to see is Ben Shapiro on stage tomorrow, getting it, getting on. And then all of a sudden, the mic drops, the fucking fireworks come off, and Bannon walks on stage like it is wwe. And everyone's like, he's got to do the strut. Like Vince McMahon. Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

He's a theme song.

[Ian Cross]

They've had pre planned that. They're gonna do the debate. Wait, then as. As band starts going like this and band's walking up, you see Tucker jump out with his chairs. We need this. We need to reinvigorate, you know, make it okay. I would totally come for that. I would do that. It was actually like.

[Tim Pool]

It's funny you guys compare all this to, like. Like, professional wrestling with. Because it's like, a lot of the times when I see this kind of infighting happening now, this happens in the sphere all the time. It happens Politically, whatever the niche happens to be. But these guys, I'm meant to ask you this, Tim, is do you think that these guys are doing this and they're agitating like this? Like you could tell them, hey guys, go up there, be nice, have it. You know, we need to form unity. There's no boss. There's no boss. Right, but do you think that even if they did that, would they still do it? Because those guys are there to appeal to their audience, to appeal to the people who are out there. Because if you don't go up on there and you don't talk to about Ben Shapiro, your audience is going to make you pay for how he, he had this golden opportunity to run for Shapiro.

[Ian Cross]

If Charlie was still alive, this would not happen.

[Tim Pool]

Oh yeah, that wouldn't happen.

[Ian Cross]

Then he'd say guys, but now please don't go on my stage and have a drama fest. We are talking about the future of this country. There's no one doing that, so why are they allowing this stupidity? But I, and I don't agree with the audience thing. I, I do understand what you're saying and I do, it is true to a certain extent. But if Ben went up there and said, said with all due respect to Ben Shapiro, I don't. If all he did was say, guys, I wanna talk to you about the future of this country, the midterm elections. But I will address what Ben Shapiro said if he simply said, I don't appreciate the stage drama at an event like this. We're talking about the future of this country and in memory of Charlie Kirk, it shouldn't be this way. So Ben, please, let's keep it respectful. Moving on. People have been like, then they would.

[Tim Pool]

Have been like, then he made the hit though, but then he had at least addressed the gorilla in the.

[Ian Cross]

Exactly. While saying let's not stoop that level. And not actually insulting Ben, just saying let's get, keep it civil and try and focus on what we can win together. Instead this is turning into just more partisan bickering where the right is now two different factions. You know Cenk Uygur talks about, he's like, can we just come together with some Republicans on the issues we wanna get done and get em done. Cause if the left and the right agree that healthcare is too expensive, can we just forget everything else, Forget the trans kid stuff, the tax policy, whatever. Let's just look at the healthcare thing, right? Let's look at the roads, let's look at the border, whatever it is that we agree on. Let's Just do. Do and then argue later. I like that idea. It's. That's kind of what the MAGA coalition was. A lot of people disagreed on all these things. There's moderate, you know, I don't think abortion should be completely banned to the. We should ban it completely. But we're going to work together because the left is so insane now. You know what I think it is? As the tide recedes, the scum is exposed. What I mean. What I mean by that is not to insult anybody who's saying this, but there is no. No woke beast. The Kraken has been slain. And now, you know, you got. You got a pirate ship and you got Her Majesty's vessel. And they were fighting when a Kraken emerged and they said, oh, aim your kids at the Kraken. The Kraken is dead. Now they're looking at each other and going, you. And they're fighting again. Yep, that's. And I don't.

[Tate Brown]

I don't. I don't.

[Ian Cross]

I don't. I don't care. You know what I mean? Like, I don't need to be there.

[Tim Pool]

I brought out Kaiju. You bring out crack.

[Ian Cross]

Crack. Let's just call it a Kaiju.

[Tate Brown]

Very mystical in the show.

[Ian Cross]

What is the Kaiju, by the way? Rim Godzilla. It's. It's a gigantic monster. It's not. It's not just Godzilla. Rodan Gam. So they're all.

[Tim Pool]

Any gigantic Japanese monster.

[Ian Cross]

Watch this at the Meca Godzilla. Bro Ultra. Somehow Godzilla got cyborg. Cyborg parts. Oh, yes. How. What was the story behind Meca Godzilla?

[Tim Pool]

I have no idea.

[Ian Cross]

They're like, let's make him a robot.

[Tim Pool]

That was a long time ago.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

And then you had. Had that show where. What was that show where the guy would, like, turn into a gigantic dude and fight Kaiju. You know what I'm talking about?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah. Oh, that's Ultram man.

[Ian Cross]

Ultram.

[Tim Pool]

Ultram.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah. Yeah. Easy, easy, man. Ultra God.

[Tim Pool]

Now I'm dating myself. Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

All right. Everybody want to go to your rumble rants and super chat. So smash the like button. Share the show with everyone you know. Shout out to poker Go studios.

[Tim Pool]

Man, this is beautiful.

[Ian Cross]

It is an honor and a privilege to be here. I'm a. I'm a big poker guy. I'm a huge fan. It's cool. They let us take their poker table for the week. Week. And it means a lot to me. It's really amazing. You guys are the best. And shout out to all you guys in the crew. Let's Grab some rumble rants and some super chats. Let's start with. Oh, it looks like. Looks like they actually got the rumble rants disappeared, Ruhro. Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

Ruh.

[Ian Cross]

Row. Okay, well, Bond says. Tim, how did you like having Graham on the show? We had Graham Allen and Mike Medisot, and it was a really great conversation. That was super, really good. Yeah, both those guys are awesome. The quartering. We already. Phil already read this one, but he says he talked to Myron. He's totally fine. He wasn't banned. The point is to. Jeremy said Myron hit me up and said there's more to the story. He'll have more later. And. And then I looked up the rumors and so we'll see. We'll see. We don't know, but it looks like a bunch of the rumble rants are gone. I can't fathom why that would be.

[Tim Pool]

Oh, well, real busy at Rumble today.

[Ian Cross]

Nothing doing. Nothing doing. We'll jump to our super chats, for which I think we have a plethora. See, that's the problem. I can't say plethora. Ple. Is plethora too big a word? Plethora. It's like that. Plethora. I say we got big lots. Plethora.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, big lots.

[Ian Cross]

Big lots. I like plethora. Say it in the mirror. My vocabulary is too, too, too good of talking. Bunches and bunches. I gotta take.

[Tim Pool]

Try saying bl. It's like the. When you get your eyes done, like cosmetic surgery. So blath.

[Ian Cross]

Just. Just be old. You know, I. I hate plastic surgery. We're in Vegas. It's everywhere. Just be old.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

So, you know, I splash water in your face throughout the day. You know, I saw a guy who had really bad hair transplants, but no, actually, it wasn't really bad ones. It looked like he had gotten them a long time ago, but his hair can. Your character still falls out. So now he had male pattern baldness with weird hair plant. And I'm just like, guy, just put on a beanie and just roll in it. You know what I mean? That's all you got to do.

[Tate Brown]

That's pragmatism.

[Ian Cross]

Dude, have you been using the infrared? No hat.

[Tate Brown]

Oh, I want to use it.

[Ian Cross]

We got from Jonathan Otto. Yeah, the red light thing.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

You know, it's kind of funny because I looked it all up and it's all real. It all works. And I was like, oh, that's true. It feels. It feels like hippie dippy. But I always thought it was BS Until I Learned of blue light therapy for babies.

[Tim Pool]

Yep.

[Ian Cross]

And that. That it's real.

[Tate Brown]

Wait, what is that?

[Ian Cross]

So if babies are jaundiced, I think I'm gonna get this wrong. But it's like they have too much bilirubin in their blood. The blue light, the wavelength of the light itself breaks it down. And so if their livers aren't strong enough to get it out of their system, the blue light breaks it down, and then their body takes care of the rest. So they literally put a blindfold on the baby and sit it under a blue light for like five hours. Wow. And then. And I'm like, really? Just a blue light? Just a blue light. And then I'm like, so the red light stuff is real? And they're like, yes. The doctors told me that. I'm like, what? I looked it up and I'm like, red lighting your balls does boost testosterone. It actually, the studies say that they found an increase of testosterone when men started putting red light on their balls. Something to do with the sun, I guess.

[Tim Pool]

You wake up in the morning, figure that out.

[Ian Cross]

So many man, you know what it is? Humans would wake up, up crack of dawn with the red light beaming on them, and they'd be standing proud with their junk right up in there. And it would. It would cook.

[Tate Brown]

There was that guy, Soulbron. He kept tweeting like, you need to start sunning your balls. And then one guy, he replied in like the back of a police cruiser, he's like, don't do this in an apartment complex.

[Ian Cross]

All right, what do we got here? Mike says, tim, I am creating a new political party called Both Parties Suck Party. There's so many third parties that try to do something, you know, that's.

[Tim Pool]

Isn't Elon going to do American party.

[Ian Cross]

But now he's funding Republic.

[Tate Brown]

Guys, what if both parties are the problem?

[Tim Pool]

Wow.

[Tate Brown]

No way.

[Ian Cross]

So small. The screen is too far away. I mean, look. Okay, we got X. Radico says, I implore everyone donate to Tim's security. The Irish are after him and his spoons. The Irish, True. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces.

[Tim Pool]

Switch to T Mobile and save up.

[Ian Cross]

To 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits. They leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now.

[Tate Brown]

T Mobile is in US cellular stores.

[Ian Cross]

Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits, credit. Stop if you Cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. High interest debt is one of the.

[Tim Pool]

Toughest opponents you'll face unless you power.

[Ian Cross]

Up with a SOFI personal loan.

[Tim Pool]

A SOFI personal loan could repackage your.

[Ian Cross]

Bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got super speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more. That's sofi.com p o w E R Loans originated By SoFi Bank NA Member FDIC Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891 I need all of your money and Irishman Irishman There is an Irishman who has before stolen my spoons. I need your help. Go to timcast.com and click join us and get to the Discord server. And that will help us make sure the Irishman never takes another spoon again. We had a Seamus and I wrote a really great bit for Cass Castle that we never made. And it was that this. This is a true story. I was sitting on the couch in the. In the castle. It's called the Great Room. When you first walk in, it's like a big room, the kitchen, living room. And I was watching Leprechaun. I don't. I remember. I don't remember which one. And it was the scene where the guy had gotten bitten by the leprechaun and started turning into one. So he's at a restaurant and he orders hash browns, french fries, mashed potatoes, baked potato, Tater tot. Just a plate of potatoes. Which is funny because just because the Irish starve to death with no potatoes doesn't mean they love potatoes. But so then Seamus walks in and he's like, hey, buddy, what are you watching? And then he looks up at the screen and he goes, this is the most racist thing I have ever seen. And I started busting out laughing. Cause it's like, it's true. He's like, I was bitten by a leprechaun and I have to eat potatoes. So we wrote this bit where the bit was going to be that exact scene scenario. And then I tell Seamus, chill out. It's leprechaun, Stop being your panties and a bunch. And then the next like, the then like transition scene was our receptionist goes, oh, Tim, there's a bunch of people outside. I'm like, who are they? And she goes, the potato people. I'm like, what? She's like, they're like, irish, stop. You can't call them the potato people. And then she goes, no, no, no. They're from the Organization Potato. And I was like, what? And there's a bunch of Irish protesters outside picketing, holding up signs saying potato. Which stands for people organizing together against true oppression. Oppression. And they were. And they were arguing that the Irish are the true oppressed people. Yeah. And that white privilege oppresses them. We wrote this whole thing out. We never made it. I wish we did. It would have been a lot of fun. Was it Leprechaun 3? Were they in Vegas? I don't remember. A guy gets bit by the leprechaun and it starts turning into one. Because apparently that. Dude, those movies are amazing. Yeah, they were like, let's make it like werewolves or vampires. You know, like he gets bit by the leprechaun and turns into one. That's how you make more leprechauns. That's how Jennifer Aniston got her. Oh, the movie you're thinking of is Leprechaun 4 in space. This is the only sounds about right. The only film in the franchise.

[Tim Pool]

Sharknado, bro.

[Ian Cross]

That was Warwick Davis, right?

[Tim Pool]

Y Legend.

[Ian Cross]

Patriot Legend. Leprechaun in Space. I could go on. Is the only film in the franchise where a human to leprechaun transformation happens. Quantum strange court says. Tim, I understand your situation, but I truly hope this isn't the last IRL praying for you all. Well, the good news is we are working with Rumble and so the next show will be January 5th. It is going to be to happen what we end up working out in that January. We have basically three weeks to sort out getting this machine churning because for security reasons, we're not going to go back to where we just got shot at. And so we need like, I'll put it simply, my wife and I are like, we're going to go to an undisclosed location. I can't do Tim cast irl. Like, I. I don't. We've gotten crazy death threats. We were told by the Fed some of them seem crazy credible. They didn't say they are. I don't want to lie about it. They said based on the. The statements that were made, the threats that were made, this appears to be credible based on previous actions from certain crazed individuals. So we said, okay. Then you get someone circling our property, then they shoot at it. So we're like, okay, we're not going to be retarded and just sit here and wait for someone to kick the door in with an AR and start opening fire on my staff, my guests, or whatever it is. So we're talking to Rumble and we're saying we're basically saying, like, how do we build something bigger? The good news is this could actually end up being closed door, open window, and that we build something tremendously massive. With Rumble, I think it's very likely to happen. Meaning I'll just say, like, the stuff that we're already working on times 10, other creators coming in, shows coming together, big studio conventions. There's big ideas here. And the good news is I think Rumble really wanted to do, do a big, big project that was going to like, reshape the space. And so when this happened, it was kind of like, well, I guess now you have to come and join us on this grand mission. And as much as I hate Florida, my wife and I were like, we'll do it if we can make this happen. So it might maybe, you know, God closes the door. He opens a window. Could be good. Could be good. All right. Antipathy says neocons are just trying to take control of the GOP by slandering opposition as anti Semitic. Semitic. I don't completely disagree, but there are certainly people who just won't stop screaming about the Jews. And it's annoying. Yeah, I certainly think it's stupid when these super pro Israel people are like, if you criticize my country, you hate Jews. Like, no, I have no problem with Jews whatsoever. Not at all.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah, that's. I made the point on the show yesterday is like I was laying out. The play from the neocons is sort of dig back up the old play where they would just define anyone to the right of Ted Cruz's alt right. As I think that as you can see, they're doing the same thing thing where anyone to the right of Ted Cruz is now Ike Roiper. Which is ironic because Nick Fuentes himself hates J.D. vance. He just wants to also derail the Vance campaign. So you're seeing both the actual gripers and indeed the neocons, both trying to derail a Vance 2028 campaign. But the neocons are trying to poison the welfare Vance by labeling again, everyone to the right of Ted Cruz as a groiper for no reason.

[Ian Cross]

Indeed. Yeah. I tweeted out in response to Vivek Ramaswamy, Heritage Americans can become press president. The arguments don't matter like it's in the Constitution. It's true. You can argue like how far back you have to go to be heritage American, but there exists something that is different from an American. There is an American with the legal standing to be the president, and there's an American that does not have that. So There is a distinction, but I like Vivek on a lot of issues, so I'm not trying to. You know, people need to understand. I criticize one guy and one thing, and people are like, tim's attacking Tucker. And I'm like, I criticize him. I did. I think Vivek's work. I like a lot of his work. I don't know. He's. Vivek's super important for this movement because he'll say things outside the box that ruffle the base on purpose. I mean, he just knows how important it is to say certain truths sometimes, even if they're Are seemingly unpopular at the moment. All right. Masamune says Tim is a great mass ofYouth on YouTube that are actively seeking out contact with maps. I'm not kidding. Kidding. Please shout out Father Void for exposing this atrocious behavior as well as the maps who are encouraging it. Don't say map. Just say pedo. But I get the point you're trying to make. That's messed up. I get a lot of videos on Instagram where it's dudes beating up pedophiles, you know, And I'm like, have you.

[Tate Brown]

Seen the one guy who does the alley oop smack or his boy throws the pedo in the air, and then the guy smacks in the air. They call the alley oop smack that.

[Ian Cross]

Did he really do that?

[Tate Brown]

Oh, it's a guy. He specialized.

[Ian Cross]

My only concern is, like, sooner or later, one of these guys are going to get the wrong dude. Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

And there's also, like, a debate to be had about, like, half of these guys are clearly just, like, people with, like, down syndrome and stuff like that. So there's no. It's like, maybe they're just using this excuse to beat, like, people with disabilities.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah. You're like, man.

[Tate Brown]

I mean, a pedophile is a pedophile, but it's like, you know, maybe just.

[Ian Cross]

Let the police handle couldn't do bum fights. So.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, indeed.

[Tate Brown]

You know, the alley oop smack is very keen on it.

[Ian Cross]

I'm torn because I'm concerned about vigilantism in that there have already been a few stories where they've insinuated that they got the wrong guy. Like, somebody was in a similar area that looked kind of like the person, and they. Because from online photos, you're never too sure. It's rough because I don't care. Cause I like these videos. You know what I mean? Even if they're stopping pedos from preying on kids. Yeah. I don't want to see any extreme violence or anything like that, but Instagram these videos. But I am concerned about the vigilantism, because sooner or later, something bad is going to happen. Well, not only that, but, like, there are people on the left that's. That would consider their.

[Tim Pool]

Their activism vigilantism.

[Ian Cross]

Right, Exactly. They'd argue the exact same thing. Like, I love watching a capitalist or a Nazi get punched. And it's like, man, no, no. I mean, it's. It's actually so close to the argument because they say, oh, you know, by.

[Tim Pool]

Them not affirming my identity, that's actually doing violence.

[Ian Cross]

Violence to me. So I'm preventing violence, which is just vigilantism. That's actually a really good point to describe to people this feeling. Say, you know how you feel when you watch, like, one of those videos where a pedophile gets punched in the face and everyone's gonna be like, yeah, I enjoy those videos. That's how the left feels, watching conservatives get punched in the face. I don't like those videos, though, personally. I just. I don't know. Because isn't it illegal? Like, it's assault, even if the guy's in the middle? Middle of.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah. If you're a vigilante, you can't, like, charge the guy. So.

[Ian Cross]

No. If the vigilante punches the pedophile, doesn't he still go to prison for assault? Vigilante. Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

Because the police haven't got involved. So it's like this guy, you just punched it. By the police's standards, an innocent person.

[Ian Cross]

Yep.

[Tim Pool]

Okay.

[Ian Cross]

You can't take the law into your own hands. Yeah. Don't. Vigilante. No.

[Tate Brown]

And there's a lot of guys out there that do it. Like, the right way is they literally just, you know, draw these guys in. They get everything written down, put it in paper, hand it over to the police. I think a big issue with the vigilante guys, I just want to beat people up, is they never even turn the stuff over to the police. So they literally just smack a guy around and cut him loose.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

Which all that does is it ensures the pedophiles be more prudent in the future.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah.

[Tate Brown]

Rather than the guys that are able to actually put together a case, they can hand it over to the cops, and the cops can put the guy away.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah. It also sort of strengthens that. What do you.

[Tim Pool]

That.

[Ian Cross]

That stereotype that people want to kill you because you're trans. People are like, I'm afraid just because he's a pedophile. People want to hurt him. That's like. But that's just who I am, man. You just want to hurt me for being who I am. I'll put it like this. If you're, if you're a pedophile and you don't pray upon children, you keep it to yourself. You don't do any weird things online with, with child abuse content. Keep it to yourself. Shut up. Fine. Like, don't commit crimes. Don't. Don't target kids. Don't make any weird art. Don't do any of the garbage. Just keep it, keep it in your mind. Keep, Stay away from people. If you're acting upon it, you're gonna get your ass kicked. Yeah, I mean, well, that's like, let's just, let's be very, very polite for the law and for the cameras by the police when they catch you. And you deserve it. That's one of the things that the, that the quote unquote maps say is they're like, I'm non offending, so it's okay. Or, you know, if I don't act on it. No, it's okay. You know why that's not okay? Because they're trying to normalize in the public. Yeah, shut your mouth. Go away. Keep it to yourself. You act on it in any way, you go to jail, you get locked, locked up. Because this argument, we can look at the slippery slope argument all across the board. Like in 2010 when the conservatives said if they legalize gay marriage, they're gonna teach sodomy in schools. Literally happened. So these map, you know, they try to use that semantic BS to hide what they do. They want to argue, they're non offending. What they want to do is they want to build compassion so that they can try to normalize it. F that. There's a line, man. So anyway, all right, Buffalo Bill says, tim, we love Israel. America is just an idea. And your boomer audience loves Israel. That sounds like a. Well, I think Buffalo Bill, maybe you should consider the country you live in. And if you love Israel so much, why don't you go move to Israel? I'm sure they'd welcome you. Buffalo Bill says we stand with Israel. We denounce Tucker and Candace. This America is just an idea. See this, this is the problem. It's people like this Buffalo Bill guy who don't actually care about America that feeds and fuels these anti Semites.

[Tate Brown]

Wasn't he the guy from yesterday that was talking about the gambling money?

[Ian Cross]

No, not him. This is the guy yesterday who was saying that he loved Israel and.

[Tate Brown]

Oh, okay. Is he trolling? Because it's too on the.

[Ian Cross]

Yes, for sure. What do you mean? Of course not. He loves Israel. Loves Israel.

[Tate Brown]

We love Israel. He's clocked our tea. Oh, no.

[Ian Cross]

It sounds like a bait the way it was phrased. We have to read this one, guys. It's the last show of 2025. Geraldo. Don says, per Tim cast tradition. I'm with my wife.

[Tate Brown]

Let's go.

[Ian Cross]

The hospital. In the hospital today. Welcome. Welcoming our twin girls, Cassandra and Isabella. Get to making babies. Patriots twin. Excellent name choices, by the way.

[Tate Brown]

I can't wait for the first person that's like, I'm in the hospital with my wife. We all start clapping. He's like, yeah, she's getting her stomach pumped.

[Ian Cross]

I'm just waiting for someone to have children. Twins, fraternal. And tell us that they're naming them Tristan and Isolda. Only Phil gets the reference. I didn't get it exactly. Well, you're not well read. See, these are the problems I have because I get these marketing people. Be like, tim, no one knows what Tristan and Isolda is. You can't talk about that. Don't we have Scandinavian so much.

[Tim Pool]

No, you can talk about it.

[Ian Cross]

I know things. You guys can Google search Tristan and Isolde. You have fun. And black sails and white sales. Come on. You guys don't know the story? No. Sounds awesome, though. The guy was. Was. Went to go rescue the chick, and then he's like, if I. If I fly the white sail, it means I rescued her. If not. But then he, like, they fell in love, and then the king was like, oh, what was me? Like, it's like a famous folklore. Whatever, dude. Okay, this guy Ian, I'm starting to believe you need to read a book.

[Tim Pool]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah.

[Tim Pool]

That's why you will never be a privateer.

[Ian Cross]

It's not in my blood. I pay the privateer years. And. And. And I know you know the story of Gellert's grave, right? This one.

[Tim Pool]

I'm not by name.

[Ian Cross]

Oh, my God. Sorry. No, I know you all know. I told the story, like 800,000 times. You know what? You know what?

[Tate Brown]

I've only read the rap because it's.

[Ian Cross]

The last show of the. Of the year. I want to do it, guys.

[Tim Pool]

Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe.

[Ian Cross]

This thing weighs a ton. Drew. Live with your legs, man.

[Tate Brown]

Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[Ian Cross]

He's talking to you British. I'm not. Of course he did. Right, Santa? You know my elf, Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list and elf I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies, right? Mrs. Claus I'm Mrs. Claus's much younger sister and at T Mobile there's no trade in needed when you switch so you can keep your old phone or.

[Tim Pool]

Give it as a gift.

[Ian Cross]

And the best part? You can make the switch to T Mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes. Nice. My side of the tree is slipping. Kimber the holidays are better.

[Tate Brown]

AT T Mobile switch in just 15.

[Tim Pool]

Minutes and get iPhone 17 on us.

[Ian Cross]

With no trade in needed.

[Tate Brown]

And now T Mobile is available in.

[Ian Cross]

US cellular stores with 34 monthly bill credits for well qualified customers. Plax tax and $35 vice connection charge credit sentine balance due if you pay off Earlier Cancel Finance Agreement 256 gigs $830 eligible board in a new line 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes fees required. Check out 15 minutes or less per line. Visit t mobile.com High Interest Debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a SOFI personal loan. A SOFI personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got super speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more. That's s o f I.com p-o w e r loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891 so the legend, which I'll probably get wrong, but I'm gonna try my best, is in Wales, and it's a story of a Welsh prince who went about his daily dealings as he does, leaving his son, his young son, in the care of his trusty hound Gelert. And as he went about to do his daily tidings of such, you know, errands, maybe a little hunt, he returns home to find that the door is open to his home. And when he enters, panicked, he sees his furniture is flipped about. He sees where his son was in the crib. The crib is flipped over. There's blood everywhere. He then sees his faithful hound Gelert walk up to him, blood dripping from his mouth, and Prince Waylon, angry that Gellert, his faithful hound, betrayed him and slain Slew his only son, drew his sword and thrust it into the side of Gelert, who then let out a dying whelp and collapsed the whelp of which awoke Waylon's child. He hears the cry and he runs over and tosses the crypt aside. And he finds his son safe next to the wolf that Gellert had slain to save his child. And they say from that moment on, Prince Waylon never smiled again. Now they say the story is not true. It's just a story they tell children. The moral being, do not jump to conclusions. Yeah, patience. It's a moral of patience and wrath. But there is a location, I believe it's in Wales called Gellert's Grave. And don't jump to conclusions. I've always wanted to make a short film about that. I thought that it was interesting. Maybe I can do it with AI. How rash is you? Think of it as anger. It's the sin known for anger. But the opposite of that, the virtue is patience. It's like when you're angry, you know, if you let things settle and kind of figure out why, maybe you don't have to resort to killing your dog. All right, we got one more chat here and it's from Nor. Nor Busy. Myron gains is one of the biggest reasons Harris is not president. They should be welcoming him at every event. Unfortunately, too much Israelis are involved in in which are involved which Myon exposes. You know, they're in there now. They're chilling. My friend, friends, it has been a tremendous year. There have been ups, there have been downs, there have been shocking moments. We laughed, we cried, we hugged. Thank you all so much for the memories. Thank you for watching Christmas is Abound. And I hope you have the warmest of winter holidays with your family. And I don't mean physically warm. I hope you have great snow if you live in the snowy area and there's jingle bells and all the good stuff. But I mean warm family tidings. So it really does mean a lot to me, to all of you out there who have supported the work that we've done done. If you want to give us a going away present, a Christmas present, join [e-mail] the Discord server. It is not money that will be used because I'm being threatened by Zionists or the Irish. It is money that is generally just used for this, for the potato, for the company. The money is used to pay staff. The money is used to feed staff and buy equipment. And there's a great community of people on the Discord that are around 247 with Morning show shows, pre shows, after shows, and they will be there throughout the holidays. Several of the people there have been several people in the Discord have gotten married. In fact, I believe just the other day they had a child.

[Tim Pool]

Yep, we had our first Discord child.

[Ian Cross]

Wow. A child of legend.

[Tate Brown]

Yeah.

[Ian Cross]

A child of prophecy. So. But regardless, maybe you don't want to join the community. Your membership just makes all this possible. As we enter the new year with a lot of questions around how we're going to operate, how this project is going to expand Band, we could use your support. So thank you so much. Follow me on X and Instagram Timcast. I will probably still have some videos I'll put up throughout the winter break because I'll probably get bored and there's fun vlogs to be made, but thank you so much. Rolo, do you want to shout anything out?

[Tim Pool]

Yeah, just the sixth book is out right now. This is the Rational Mail Reignite, sixth book in the series right now and just came out. We just published in November and Audible comes out on Monday actually. So all of it's good to go. And I'm actually going into surgery on. Oh, really? I think your producer talked to you about this. The reason I couldn't come out in the summertime was because I had some medical issues that I have to have taken care of. And so I'll be going in on Tuesday. Should be okay.

[Ian Cross]

All right.

[Tim Pool]

Well, I hope so, but coming out on the other side of it and I got a lot of things to do and coming up in the next year.

[Ian Cross]

Right on. All right, well, thanks for hanging out. Thanks, Mr. Brown.

[Tate Brown]

You can follow me on X and Instagram at realtate Brown. And yeah, 2025 has been really good to me. I started here at Tim Catch end of March and it's been changed my life, so.

[Ian Cross]

And it's only been like four or five beatings to get his work in order.

[Tate Brown]

It's true. It's been very. Tim is a very Singaporean style of. But yeah, thank you to Tim and the crew. Like, it's been a great year.

[Tim Pool]

Thanks for coming to Vegas, man.

[Ian Cross]

Yeah, man. Thanks, Tate, everybody. 1 thank you again for this year. What a time to be alive. Keep making your best stuff right now and keep putting it out because having dramatic, resounding responses. Keep going, keep going. Go to Graphene Movie, which is what I've been working on. I've been producing this graphene movie out of Rice University. Graphene Movie at Graphene Movie. Check it out. Sign up for the mailing list and you can follow me at Ian Cross on across the Internet. Do your best, make love, have a wonderful year. See you later. I am Phil that Remains on Twix.

[Tim Pool]

I just want to wish everyone a.

[Ian Cross]

Very merry Christmas, a happy new Year, and I want to say thank you to Tim Pool for allowing me to be a part of this. I really enjoy, enjoy, you know, coming on here every night and giving my opinion.

[Tim Pool]

You can check out my band, all.

[Ian Cross]

That Remains at Apple Music, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, YouTube and Deezer.

[Tim Pool]

We're going on tour next year starting.

[Ian Cross]

In May or actually starting April 29th. The tour is gonna be all that.

[Tim Pool]

Remains Born of Osiris and Dead Eyes.

[Ian Cross]

We're gonna be out for a few weeks.

[Tim Pool]

Don't forget the left lane is for crime.

[Ian Cross]

We will see you all likely January 5th, but stick around. We'll probably still have clips coming up and. And who am I kidding? I'm going to work at some point during the break because I'm going to be bored. So thank you guys so much and we'll see you all next time.

[Tate Brown]

Merry Christmas.

[Ian Cross]

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[Tate Brown]

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[Ian Cross]

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[Ian Cross]

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