Timcast IRL — Trump's Secret Plan To Make Charlie Kirk VP, America Fest IN CIVIL WAR w/ Rollo Tomassi

Date: December 20, 2025 | Host: Tim Pool | Guests: Rollo Tomassi, Tate Brown, Ian Cross, Phil Labonte
Episode Theme:
Examining the reported secret plan by Donald Trump to position Charlie Kirk as a future Vice President and eventual President, and dissecting the escalating infighting ("civil war") among conservative factions at America Fest (Amfest) following Kirk's assassination. The discussion explores political succession, MAGA coalition fractures, masculinity, immigration, and the cultural and gender divides in US politics.

Episode Overview

• Main Theme:
  A deep-dive into new revelations about Trump's political succession plans, the impact and fallout of Charlie Kirk’s assassination, and the growing infighting among the American right, exemplified at Amfest. The panel, featuring Rollo Tomassi and others, unpacks the fractures between conservative factions, questions the future direction of the Republican Party, and addresses bigger cultural rifts including gender politics, immigration, and the role of masculinity in modern conservatism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking News: The Trump–Kirk Succession Plan

[01:33]–[12:21]

• Headline: Daily Mail report claims Trump set up a pipeline for Charlie Kirk to become VP under J.D. Vance in 2028 and then ascend to the presidency, with Don Jr. as Kirk’s VP.
• Tim Pool:
  “Apparently Donald Trump was planning to put Charlie Kirk in the White House...The plan, according to the Daily Mail, was that Charlie Kirk would be the vice presidential candidate for J.D. Vance...Should they go two terms, the next candidate...was going to be Charlie Kirk himself.” [01:33]
• Reactions:
  • Kirk’s influence described as unparalleled among young conservatives.
  • His assassination is seen as a calculated move to cripple the populist right.
• Tate Brown:
  “Assassinations work, that’s why people do them. And taking Charlie Kirk off the board...everyone was like, we're in trouble without Charlie Kirk.” [08:56]
• Ian Cross:
  “I don't think there's anyone in the conservative movement that had the influence that Charlie did. His ability to reach out and talk to young people...” [09:47]

2. MAGA Civil War & Infighting at Amfest

[10:51]–[26:03]

• Report: Attendees at Amfest describe “walking on eggshells” as high-profile conservatives (e.g., Ben Shapiro vs. Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens) openly feud.
• Exclusive Incident: Fresh and Fit podcast hosts briefly ejected from Amfest, highlighting gatekeeping and growing division.
• Tim Pool:
  “You can see right now the gatekeeping has begun and the Republican Party...is going to be reshaped into something else.” [03:25]
• Ian Cross:
  “I think it's very obvious there is a MAGA civil war...who's going to win is going to be the Romneysque conservatives...” [22:07]
• Prediction: The party may fracture along traditional Republican lines vs. populist/MAGA factions, with potential for a “Rogan-esque” Democrat to fill the vacuum if Republicans alienate their younger, more diverse base.

3. The Heritage American Debate – Immigration, Citizenship, and National Identity

[34:04]–[54:27]

• Vivek Ramaswamy Speech at Amfest: (Clip Played)
  • Critiques the rising “heritage American” idea that equates authentic Americanness with lineage.
  • Argues American identity is about ideals, not ancestry.
  • Audience (and hosts) pushback: Is this erasing the significance of shared heritage, traditions, and ties to America’s founding?
• Tate Brown:
  “What Vivek is doing here is really pernicious...he’s using American as an adjective rather than a noun...because he does not believe that anybody that has any lineage in this country is entitled to the country.” [41:27]
• Tim Pool:
  “I'm not very interested in the political opinions of foreigners in America...I value an American communist's opinion more than an Indian migrant's opinion because they are Americans and we have a system...” [38:55]
• Discussion:
  – Panel argues about assimilation, net zero migration, and the hazards (and straw-manning) of defining “real” Americans exclusively by either law or lineage.
  – Predicts both establishment parties will push for more open, inclusive definitions to support immigration-driven economic growth, risking further cultural fragmentation.

4. Masculinity, Gender Divide, and the Political ‘Manosphere’

[68:11]–[78:13]

• Panel, led by Rollo Tomassi:
  – Analyzes the deepening gap between young men and women—culturally, musically, politically.
  – Women moving left, men right; contemporary society is “feminized,” inclined toward egalitarianism and groupthink, while right-wing thought is described as inherently hierarchical and masculine. – Discussion of “repeal the 19th” meme leads to debate about meaningful reforms, e.g., requiring all voters to sign up for selective service. – Rollo Tomassi:
  “Responsibility without authority is slavery...reverse is tyranny...patriarchy is a far more balanced way of organizing society than gynocentrism or androcentrism...” [75:24]

5. The Problem of Exclusion — Who Speaks to Young Men?

[88:34]–[92:53]

• Tim Pool:
  “Just name for me one conservative that speaks masculinity to young men…Who does Turning Point in the Republican Party have that is inspiring young men to be stronger, faster, better?” [88:49]
• Rollo Tomassi:
  “All we’re doing is...offering information and education so that you can protect yourself and make better decisions for yourself.” [91:17]
• Panel agrees: figures like Andrew Tate (controversial or not) are filling a void because mainline conservatives fail to offer an inspiring masculine archetype.

6. The Fresh and Fit Ejection – Symbol of Chaos & Division

[78:13]–[87:44]

• Timeline of Fresh and Fit podcast hosts’ ejection and reinstatement at Amfest.
• Debate: Was it about “association,” about Candace Owens, about accusations of antisemitism, or just bureaucratic confusion in a large, unwieldy movement?
• Ian Cross:
  “Amfest is likely just going to start shrinking and kicking people out and then it will just be CPAC.” [81:18]

7. Conservative Infighting: Bannon vs. Ben Shapiro & Israel as a Litmus Test

[99:47]–[104:03]

• Steve Bannon’s Attack on Ben Shapiro: (Clip Played) – Accuses Shapiro of being a “cancer,” lifelong Never-Trumper, and prioritizing Israeli interests over American. – Israel emerges as a new wedge issue within the right.
• Tim Pool:
  “There’s literally no organization here...there was no one going ‘guys, whatever you do, do not go up on stage and just rag on each other’...It’s WWE.” [104:03]

8. Private Military Contractors, Letters of Marque, and the "Pirate" Era

[54:57]–[65:38]

• Senator Mike Lee proposes American privateers (“pirates”) to seize cartel assets.
• Discussion of historical precedent, the rise of PMCs (Private Military Companies), and implications for US veterans, foreign policy, and a “PMC era.”

9. Vigilantism, Social Media Nihilism, and the Red Pill

[121:53]–[123:47]

• Social media incentivizes “nihilism,” spreads black pill (‘doomer’) mindsets.
• Discussion on the ethics and effectiveness of vigilante justice vs. rule of law—concern that right-wing extralegal behavior risks resembling left-wing activism.
• Tim Pool:
  “They want to argue, they're non offending. What they want to do is...build compassion so that they can try to normalize it. F that. There’s a line, man.” [124:10]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Assassinations work, that’s why people do them.” — Tate Brown [08:56]
• “He was treated like a rock star...such a massive space on the right...a quarterback of the MAGA movement.” — Panel on Charlie Kirk [10:45]
• “The only way a woman wins the presidency is if both parties nominate a woman.” — Ian Cross [13:34]
• “Women organize societies...more egalitarian...men, hierarchies.” — Rollo Tomassi [69:37]
• “Just name for me one conservative that speaks masculinity to young men.” — Tim Pool [88:49]
• “It’s WWE...Why would I want to go and stand in an audience and listen to a speech by Bannon about Ben Shapiro? I don’t care.” — Tim Pool [104:03]
• “If Charlie was still alive, this would not happen.” — Ian Cross on the infighting at Amfest [105:56]
• “There’s literally no organization here...It’s just absolutely insane.” — Tim Pool [104:03]
• “Responsibility without authority is slavery. ... Authority without any responsibility is tyranny.” — Rollo Tomassi [75:27]
• “Amfest is likely just going to start shrinking and kicking people out and then it will just be CPAC.” — Ian Cross [81:18]
• “You act on it in any way, you go to jail, you get locked up. ... These map, you know, they try to use that semantic BS to hide what they do.” — Tim Pool [123:18]
• "There's a lot of feminists, but the same way we are seeing the icing out of the people on the right, I would not be surprised to see [the left] start saying, 'maybe we need to get rid of these whackaloons.'" — Ian Cross [30:10]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:33] — Trump's secret plan: Vance–Kirk succession, Don Jr. as VP
• [08:56] — Impact of Kirk's assassination; analysis of political vacuum
• [10:51] — Amfest infighting, exclusion of Fresh and Fit
• [22:07] — MAGA 'Civil War,' predictions for party splits
• [34:04] — Vivek Ramaswamy at Amfest: The “Heritage American” debate
• [68:11] — Masculinity, gender divides, societal “feminization”
• [75:24] — Gynocentrism, patriarchy, and political tribalism
• [81:18] — Concerns of Amfest devolving into CPAC, exclusion dynamics
• [99:58] — Steve Bannon lays into Ben Shapiro; Israel as litmus
• [121:53] — Vigilantism in policing crimes; red pill/black pill culture
• [124:10] — Normalization discourse, vigilantism, and MAP
• [134:52] — Reflections & sign-off—memories, future plans, community plug

Episode Conclusion

The panel closes with reflections on the tumultuous year—highlighted by violence, political assassinations, and divisions within the American right that threaten to undo the MAGA coalition. The exclusion of dissenting voices and the lack of inspiring role models for young men are identified as long-term threats to both conservatism and national cohesion. The solution, per the panel, lies in reclaiming unity, refocusing on substantive issues, and revitalizing cultural, masculine appeal—avoiding the dead-end of endless, self-defeating infighting.

Final thoughts:
A compelling, fiery roundtable sharply critiquing the state of conservative politics, the dangers of ideological purity, and a system strained at every level—political, cultural, and generational.