B (2:22)

That's right.

A (2:22)

Yep.

B (2:23)

That's right.

A (2:23)

Okay.

B (2:25)

All right, well, you know, I, I guess just to kind of get us started here. What, you know, you just mentioned that you're, you've got a lot of different phases of, of life going on with your kids. And one interesting thing kind of about our relationship is that your youngest is, has, I think the same birthday.

A (2:53)

That's correct.

B (2:54)

As, as my oldest.

A (2:55)

That's right.

B (2:56)

And I'll tell you, it's it's really interesting seeing Emerson and Kenna together because, you know, they, there's kind of a saying that your, your kids are all really kind of the age of the oldest kid in the house.

A (3:14)

That's right.

B (3:15)

Have you found that to be true? Because I notice a difference in maturity when I see Kenneth Emerson together. Context of, of humor.

A (3:28)

Absolutely.

B (3:29)

What they've been exposed to.

A (3:31)

Yes.

B (3:32)

Because you guys, you guys likely. Whereas we're watching video, you know, movies and things like that, and we're kind of watching Ken. Ken is limited by that based on what the youngest can watch.

A (3:46)

That's right.

B (3:47)

And the youngest gets to watch a little bit more because we're trying to cater to Kenna as well.

A (3:51)

That's right.

B (3:52)

What's it like, you know, with Emerson and, and how have you guys kind of managed that?

A (3:59)

We've attempted to manage it, but it is, it's actually fascinating. So when I think about when my oldest Pearson was 11, what our life looked like, how we parented, what we did, how we spent our time, what we talked about the household, and then I think about Emmy being that same age with an older sibling, brother 14 and older sister that's 16. And, and you're right. I mean, she's exposed to so much more. The family dynamics completely different.

B (4:29)

Right.

A (4:30)

What we talk about in the house, what our schedule looks like, it, it forces her to almost grow up faster than the firstborn whenever, whenever that they were that. That age. I'm very fortunate because all my kids in their own individual way, are just wonderful kids. They all have different characteristics, personality, talents, likes and dislikes. And while we obviously have our moments amongst the three siblings of it being challenging, we have our fair share of bickering and fighting. But, but my oldest daughter and also my son, they're just really good examples. And so they've kind of found a way to be a good influence on Emerson at 11. But how we treat Emerson, we have to be careful because we cannot forget that she's 11 and sometimes that we do.

B (5:23)

Right.

A (5:23)

Because we're dealing with a 16 year old daughter and a 14 year old son.

B (5:26)

Yeah.

A (5:27)

And we forget that she's a, she's a baby and you know, expectations of her, how we communicate with her. Sometimes we find ourselves treating her older than she really is, which is not fair to her.

B (5:41)

Right.

A (5:42)

So that's something that we've had to get used to. And given that there's, you know, a pretty significant age gap between my oldest and my youngest, it's interesting how the cues that Emerson takes for what's acceptable.

B (5:57)

Right.

A (5:57)

Her attitude, how she communicates, what she likes and what she doesn't like.

B (6:02)

Right.

A (6:03)

Obviously, my wife and I influence that, but then also what her older sister does and does not do significantly influence it. So it's just an interesting dynamic. It's really. It's really challenging.

B (6:16)

Yeah.

A (6:16)

The way that we try to minimize that dynamic or the negatives of that dynamic is just intentional time. Because ultimately, what Emmy wants is just time with mom and mom and dad.

B (6:29)

That's right.

A (6:30)

But it's hard. It's hard to get. Whenever you've got this game, that game, this activity, that activity, spending time with her on things that she wants to do, they're just different than what my son and my oldest daughter want to do. And so we find that whenever things become challenging and parenting Emerson, it's tied back to the fact that we just haven't spent. We haven't spent time with her.

B (6:55)

That's right.

A (6:55)

So that intentional time is hard to come by, but kind of the antidote for the challenges of being the youngest of three.

B (7:07)

When you think back to, You know, Kenna and Cali, my two daughters are three years apart, so Pearson and Emerson would be five years apart. And it can seem like there's a double standard.

A (7:30)

Absolutely right. Absolutely.

B (7:33)

Or almost like a dichotomy of parenting, because it's not uncommon for us to hear, well, Kenna gets to do this. Why can't I do this? Yeah. Or why does Cali get that and I don't get that? And it's like, well, if you remember three years ago, which they can't. They. They can't understand the context of age yet. Right. But it's like when you were nine years old, when you were eight years old, you. You got that, too. You got to do that, too. And vice versa.

A (8:03)

Yes.

B (8:04)

But it's a tough spot to be as a parent because it seems like a double standard.

A (8:08)

That's absolutely right. And, you know, just as something as simple as unloading the dishwasher, which is the responsibility of all three children.

B (8:17)

Yeah.

A (8:18)

And despite our best attempts to get them to do it all at the same time, to minimize, you know, the. Well, this is not fair. You know, my oldest daughter, in addition to going to school, is very involved in gymnastics. She does gymnastics 16 hours a week in addition to her homework, and then having a social life. And so almost every single evening, she's gone essentially straight from school to gymnastics. So she's not home. Right. So when it comes to Reed, Emmy, you need to Unload the dishwasher.

B (8:52)

Yep.

A (8:53)

Very frequent responses. But why doesn't P have to do the dishwasher?

B (8:57)

Yeah.

A (8:58)

And it's a challenge because it's a. It's a valid point.

B (9:02)

Right.

A (9:02)

And they don't understand. Well, he's, like, actually doing gymnastics. She's doing an activity.

B (9:08)

Right.

A (9:08)

They don't understand that.

B (9:10)

Right.

A (9:10)

So it's making sure that in. It's meeting them where they're at and where their minds at. Making sure that when P is home, that she is helping out with the chores and. And attempts to know that, hey, listen, it's definitely not fair. There's a reason for it. But, you know, the other siblings not essentially getting a free pass, but it's. It's hard. I use the example of dishwasher, but it can be used for anything from curfew to phone usage to what you can watch on tv. Yeah. It makes it challenging.

B (9:39)

Yeah. We actually. To start the new year, we've been struggling with being consistent with the girls having some household responsibilities. And so we had a. We don't do this often, but we had, like, a family meeting, you know, sit down and talk. And the. The sentiment that came out was, they don't have the context of how much mom and I do on a daily basis. And there was a little bit of, like, why is it that dad gets to sit in his recliner after dinner and we have to do the dishes?

A (10:24)

Yes.

B (10:25)

Or, you know, why doesn't mom have to take the trash out? Why is mom able to go sit on the couch and read a book or watch Dancing with the Stars or whatever. Right. And they. It's funny because when you're sitting there, you can kind of. You see them out of your peripheral and they're just kind of staring at you.

A (10:43)

Very observant.

B (10:44)

And you. You just think to yourself, like, they are looking at us like we're the laziest deadbeat parents ever. And this is just like, this is child labor and we're abusing them.

A (10:53)

That's right.

B (10:54)

Making them. And so we tried that. As they get older, we sat down and we were like, hey, did you know that there's a lot of bills that have to be paid every month? Right. And there's Christmas shopping.

A (11:08)

Right.

B (11:08)

And there's cleaning the house. There's a lot of stuff that goes into cleaning the house. There's back to school shopping. There's making sure that you guys have insurance and scheduling doctor's appointments. And it's like, we want you to understand there are things that you can't help us do.

A (11:24)

Right.

B (11:25)

And we don't ask you to help us with those things.

A (11:26)

Right.

B (11:27)

The things that we're asking you to do around here, fold your own laundry, bring your laundry downstairs, do the dishes. Those are all things that are age appropriate and you have the skill set to do those things. We're not asking you to fill out our tax return.

A (11:43)

Yes.

B (11:44)

You know, and I, I think that that helped with them. I mean, I was relieved for the last week or so. They have been. There hasn't been that like just staring at us like, what are you guys doing exactly? Had, have you guys experienced that at all?

A (12:02)

Only every single day. It is. You know, when, when your kids are younger, there are certain things that are very difficult to parent that actually become easier as they get older. There's the reverse of that. There are things that are more the reverse of that.

B (12:21)

Right.

A (12:22)

Having a very aware, intelligent, engaged 16 year old and a becoming intelligent and aware 14 year old. They understand concept.

B (12:32)

Right.

A (12:32)

And so we don't deal as much with them on that mindset when it comes to asking them to do things. You still get the teenager response just because they want to do something different with their time.

B (12:45)

Right.

A (12:46)

But the youngest one is very fond of questioning or pointing out the level of effort in the moment of mom and dad versus what's being asked of her.

B (12:56)

Yeah.

A (12:57)

And I'll be perfectly honest, that is a trigger.

B (13:01)

Yeah.

A (13:02)

For me.

B (13:02)

Yeah.

A (13:03)

And I don't always respond as constructively.

B (13:06)

Right.

A (13:07)

As I need to in that, in that moment.

B (13:10)

Right.

A (13:13)

She's becoming a little bit better at being able to do that. But when you throw that situation in the context of her older sister that is at gymnastics and not there, it makes it, it makes it pretty, pretty challenging. So, you know, awareness of mom and dad's role in the household and its impact on parenting, there's elements of that that do become easier as the kids get older.

B (13:38)

Right. Is Pearson driving?

A (13:41)

Pearson is driving.

B (13:43)

Does she drive the other kids? Does she take them, pick them up?

A (13:46)

She does. She's very good about that.

B (13:48)

She's good about that.

A (13:49)

Yes. There was an expectation when she turned 16.

B (13:53)

Right.

A (13:53)

And getting a hand me down car that there's times when she's going to need to help out the family and, you know, ubering the kids around. And so unless Reed's got to be at school early for lifting weights or whatever he's going to do, she will take them to school, which is incredibly helpful because it allows us to get out moving and get into, into our day and Then we ask her from time to time to help take kids to a friend's house or to a party or to run errands. And because that expectation was set early.

B (14:24)

Yeah.

A (14:25)

She's kind of accepted that as a bit of a responsibility in getting the car. She's, she's handled it incredibly well.

B (14:32)

Yeah.

A (14:33)

There's the reality of having your oldest child that in your mind is just still a baby. Yeah. Having the freedom to jump in a car and go somewhere, not only for just all the safety concerns of just driving around, you know, the, the area that we live, that's very interstate intensive.

B (14:53)

Yeah.

A (14:53)

But know the choices that she has when she's out and about how she chooses to, you know, spend her time where she goes. It. It's kind of created a lot of angst at the beginning with mom and dad about how is she going to handle it. And there's plenty of parenting moments about, hey, listen, when we say we need you to be here at this time, you need to be home at a certain time, that does not mean a departure time. That is an arrival time.

B (15:20)

Right.

A (15:21)

So little things like that still provide challenges. Having a 16 year old driving. But Pearson's great and very helpful being, being mobile. Mom and dad take advantage of it quite often.

B (15:36)

You, you reminded me. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, which is we all remember. You remember what it was like to get your driver's license.

A (15:47)

Oh, absolutely.

B (15:49)

And as I reflect back on some of my choices, because I've been trying to figure out, like, what is the source of this fear or anxiety about your kids having that freedom to drive.

A (16:05)

Yeah.

B (16:06)

I think a big part of that as a parent is your memory of how you were as a 16, 17, 18 year old driving a car.

A (16:14)

Yes.

B (16:16)

And you have more perspective now.

A (16:18)

Yes.

B (16:19)

You know, you've, you've seen a lot more really bad car accidents. You've seen the impact that it has on families when you're 16, 17, 18 years old, you're bulletproof.

A (16:29)

Yes.

B (16:30)

The fact that you could get hurt in a car accident is not even on your mind. And so I've just, I've been thinking a lot like, you know, I'll, I'll be there in five years. And I think my source of fear and anxiety stems from the fact that I know what I was like driving a car at 16.

A (16:49)

Yes. Yeah. I hope you don't do a podcast reliving the moments of what we did when we were 16.

B (16:55)

Yeah.

A (16:56)

But it's different today. You know, we've got apps on our phone.

B (17:01)

That's right.

A (17:01)

That not only track location, but speed and everything. So despite having that monitoring, there's still that fear because of our own experiences and because they don't know what they don't know.

B (17:13)

Right.

A (17:14)

And not only for just the topic of driving, but really anything. As kids get older, you know that they're going to experience life.

B (17:22)

Right.

A (17:23)

And those experiences are not always going to be positive. They're going to have failures, they're going to have challenges, they're going to have mistakes. And the consequences of those mistakes and those challenges as they get older are much, much more significant. That's right. So I think about. That has a, a tie absolutely to driving, but it really has a tie to everything that they do as they get older. Their choices just have greater consequence to them.

B (17:49)

Yeah.

A (17:49)

That I think is the root cause of some of the anxiety behind how we feel about driving most of the time.

B (17:56)

That's. Man, I haven't, I haven't thought about that. That's going to be a common theme on this podcast. I, I'm learning so much from people, but you just, you just kind of opened a door for me, which is there's this period from 16 when they start driving. You know, maybe it starts at 15, 16 to 18, where you have a kid under your responsibility who is put in a position to make choices that have consequences that can affect them for the rest of their life.

A (18:35)

Yes.

B (18:37)

And you, you aren't in control of what they physically do. And so, you know, it's, it's kind of like being a, you know, maybe being like a professional sports coach and you're standing on the sideline watching the team lose in the final seconds of the game and there's nothing you can do about it other than stand on the sideline and try to coach and direct.

A (18:59)

Right.

B (18:59)

But. Oh, gosh, that, that sounds awful.

A (19:04)

Yeah, it's, it's pretty heavy. You know, the other, you know, one of the things that I've, I've read about and it really hit home is, you know, Emerson is 11 and in the amount of time that we are going to have with her, so 100 of the time with mom and dad and our time through her actually entire life.

B (19:26)

Yeah.

A (19:26)

We've reached about 70% of our time with our 11 year old.

B (19:31)

That's crazy.

A (19:31)

And for our 14 year old, we've spent about 80% of the time that we'll spend with him in his lifetime. And when you look at a 16 year old, you're starting to get closer to 90%. Right. And so as they get older, your time with them decreases. And so the opportunity to impact and influence is just because of sheer presence becomes much, much lower. But the decisions they make as they get older, the consequences get much more significant, severe. And that is a, another parenting challenge as kids get older is, you know, and we experienced this with Pearson as she's thinking about and knows what she's going to do after high school and go to college. We don't have much time with her, but you have this realization that you're not going to have much time with her. And so you want to spend more time with her and try to almost over index on your influence and weigh in on the decisions that she's making. Right. At a time when she actually does not want that.

B (20:33)

Yep.

A (20:33)

She's wanting to become more independent. And so when you have the crossover of a minimal amount of time and what you talk about in that time, it's, it's a challenge not to be the overbearing parent, to kind of get your, you know, your, your influence in because you know that influence is, you know, just fading by the day.

B (20:52)

Yeah.

A (20:52)

So when it comes to the conversations and providing feedback and guidance on the decisions that she's making and as she's kind of contemplating whether to do A, B or C, you gotta, we have learned to be very careful to just treat that time with respect.

B (21:08)

Yeah.

A (21:09)

Because that conversation with a 16 year old is completely different than what it is with an 11 year old. With an 11 year old, you're gonna have all evening to discuss and debate it. But with a 16 year old that just got back from gym that's getting ready to go do homework, you got about seven minutes.

B (21:23)

Yeah.

A (21:23)

And you got to be very respectful of that time.

B (21:26)

Yeah.

A (21:27)

Just to make sure that you don't disenchant them and push them further away from wanting to spend time with mom and dad.

B (21:35)

Have you found, are you keenly aware of that in the moment? Because in hindsight, you know, I struggle with this today, but I, I can imagine a 16 year old daughter comes in and says, hey, I need some advice. Or hey, I need to talk about something. Or maybe they don't say that, maybe they just start talking.

A (21:58)

Yeah.

B (21:59)

And where I am today, and we've talked about this on a couple episodes before, I don't do a good job of stopping what I'm doing and putting my phone down.

A (22:09)

Yeah.

B (22:10)

But I could see how your perspective changes as your time gets less and less. Like if your 16 year old daughter comes in and looks at you and says, hey, can we talk for a minute? You're, you're probably like, oh, crap.

A (22:22)

Gonna lock in. Yeah. Yes.

B (22:23)

Let me, let me put this stuff away. Yes, of course. What do you need? What do you got?

A (22:27)

That's right. Intentional presence is different for an 11 year old and a 14 year old and a 16 year old. And unfortunately, I wish it would. It was as Easy as a 16 year old telling you that there's something significant that they want to talk about.

B (22:46)

Right.

A (22:46)

The reality is you have to find it or you have to sense it or you have to pick up on it.

B (22:52)

Right.

A (22:52)

And then you have to create the environment for them to feel comfortable to be able to talk to you about it.

B (22:57)

Right.

A (22:58)

And that, that in and of itself is incredibly challenging. Why? You know the seven minutes in the evening that you have with her.

B (23:04)

Yeah.

A (23:05)

As you get older, both my wife and I, when my oldest daughter comes in, we were more naturally inclined to lock in.

B (23:14)

Right.

A (23:14)

But it's different for the 11 year old.

B (23:16)

That's right.

A (23:16)

When the 11 year old walks in, it is. Okay. Oh, yeah. Forgot about you. Here you are.

B (23:24)

Yep.

A (23:25)

What do you need to do? Do you have homework? Right. So as they get older, it becomes easier to lock in.

B (23:30)

Yeah.

A (23:31)

But it's, for us, we found it's more difficult as they, as they get younger.

B (23:35)

Right.

A (23:36)

But as they get older, the intentionality of doing, you know, daddy, daughter.

B (23:42)

Yeah.

A (23:43)

Coffees.

B (23:43)

Yeah.

A (23:44)

Date nights.

B (23:45)

Yeah.

A (23:45)

Same with my wife. It, it, it, you have to be very intentional about creating that space. Because if you don't create that space, those topics that need to be discussed.

B (23:55)

Yeah.

A (23:56)

Don't normally naturally. Don't naturally come up.

B (24:00)

Pete and I in the first episode talked about this concept of you want to create an environment. You know, your kids are going to mess up, they're going to make mistakes and they need to get exposure to things while they're with you.

A (24:15)

Yeah.

B (24:16)

So that you have the opportunity to dialogue those in a safe space. And you just mentioned, you know, we, we try to create an environment where they're comfortable doing that. Is there anything that stands out in your head that has been really important to creating that environment?

A (24:33)

Yeah. Definitely have not figured that out. Totally agree with. That was a great conversation with Pete. It's absolutely true. It's so incredibly important. It looks different for every kid. I would say that, you know what, what works for us is just making sure that we're developing the trust with each of our kids with no strings attached, that it is just going and spending and enjoying Time together. Yeah. So that they know that we're human, that we love them and that we care for them. Right. We're not going to spend time with them just because we want to work with them on basketball.

B (25:10)

Right.

A (25:11)

We don't want to spend time with them just because, you know, they got in trouble and you want to write, you want to talk through it with them. And so kind of creating that neutral space and developing that trust with no strings attached that's related to anything that's going on in life has. Has worked for us, but that's not something that is easy to do. And you know, when wake up in the morning and think about, you know, what you could do better as a father, that's definitely one of the. One of the things that comes to mind is being more intentional about developing that trust just because of the. The person that they are.

B (25:46)

Right.

A (25:47)

Not what they do as. As that person that's helped. That's when we found that the kids feel more comfortable. That's normally when a lot of the conversations that you want to have with your kids.

B (25:56)

Right.

A (25:57)

Come out or it's the right environment to be able to ask them the questions about things that, you know, that you need to talk about.

B (26:04)

Something that's been really weighing on me lately along that thread is I found that we have gotten in a bad rhythm of having really intentional conversation, specifically with our oldest one. But it's always the catalyst for that is always something like traumatic going on.

A (26:35)

Yeah. An event.

B (26:36)

An event.

A (26:37)

Right.

B (26:37)

They, you know, she got in trouble. She had somebody said something that upset her. And the reason that that's been bothering me is because I don't want to create this environment where

A (26:56)

she.

B (26:57)

Either of them get more attention when they've done something wrong.

A (27:02)

Right, Right.

B (27:03)

Because then the behavior is, well, if I just. If I want more attention from dad, all I have to do is get in trouble. And that's going to get me. And I. Now, look, I might get. Be getting my butt chewed for an hour, but I'll get to spend an hour with that. And I have his undivided attention. And man, I think that that's. I don't even know that kids make that conscious decision, but I think it's. It's a learned behavior.

A (27:26)

It absolutely is.

B (27:27)

And I. I would say that's an epic. I would say that's like an epidemic for kids with parents who, who aren't aware of, like, hey, there needs to be times where every. It is a perfectly normal day.

A (27:42)

Yeah.

B (27:42)

And I sit down with my kid And I say, what's up with you? Yeah. What's going on?

A (27:47)

How you feeling?

B (27:48)

How you feeling?

A (27:48)

What you thinking?

B (27:49)

Right.

A (27:49)

Yeah.

B (27:50)

And the. You know what's funny is I've. We've done that. I've done that a few times. And what really breaks my heart is when I do that. And this is how I. This is how I know I'm not getting it quite right. When I do that, Kenna or Cali will be like, is everything okay?

A (28:05)

Yeah.

B (28:06)

All right. Damn. Did I. Did I do something? And I'm like, yeah, no, I'm just. I'm genuinely just. I just want to talk to you. Yeah. And they're like, oh, that's weird.

A (28:17)

Yeah.

B (28:18)

Come on.

A (28:19)

It shouldn't be weird.

B (28:20)

It shouldn't be weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (28:23)

It as. Again, as you get older, it's a bit easier to kind of have those conversations, but it's only because you only have so much time with them. Right. You know, one of the things in this conversation that, you know, having listened to the first couple episodes of the podcast, which have been fantastic, you know, we're talking about being a father. We're talking about parenting, and what really impacts the degree of challenge of parenting. A lot of time has to do with, like, what I'm going through as, like, a man.

B (28:57)

That's right.

A (28:58)

And juggling the responsibilities of providing for the family, Trying to be a good husband. Yeah. Being a good father. But doing what you need to do for your career, and if you attempt to have a social life or have a hobby, you know, how all of those things are going. Impact where your mind's at or where it's not as you need to do these things.

B (29:21)

Right.

A (29:22)

And, you know, getting my head in the right spot.

B (29:27)

Yeah.

A (29:28)

To be able to have those conversations. And I can't tell you how many times where I know I've needed to have a conversation where I have had a conversation, but my. My head and my heart's not in the right spot.

B (29:39)

Right.

A (29:39)

And it may not be anything related to, like, that situation with the kid that has not worked for the kid. So if I don't show up as my best self. Right. Head spot. Right. Heart spot.

B (29:52)

Right.

A (29:52)

Those conversations with the kids or my interactions with the kids are nowhere near as productive as they need to be. So, you know, being a father and I thought about this after listening to the first couple episodes, you know, I think, you know, we're on this earth, you know, for the glory of God, and everything on this earth really points back to him.

B (30:14)

Right.

A (30:15)

And Being a father really just. There's nothing else in life that holds up a mirror like being a father.

B (30:22)

Right.

A (30:23)

To who you are, what you do, how you do it and why you do it.

B (30:27)

Right.

A (30:27)

And making sure that, you know, dads are taking care of themselves in a good way.

B (30:32)

Yeah.

A (30:33)

Spending time in the word. Right. Making sure that they're paying attention to their physical, mental, and emotional health. Not forgetting that, you know, they're a husband. And not letting the chaos of the world or the day or career kind of overwhelm them. To kind of get your head and your heart in the right spot to be a good dad. Because every time, even my intentions are to be a good dad, but I'm not in the right spot. My kids, unfortunately, get the downside of that.

B (30:59)

Right.

A (30:59)

They kind of get the. The. The butt end of that situation. So taking care of yourself the right way has had a really big impact on what I feel like are my best efforts to parent. I don't know if you've had a similar experience.

B (31:13)

Yeah, man. I. So I'll be kind of generic here, but I have a lot of responsibility at work, a lot of people that I'm responsible for. And I'll tell you what is really, what I've found that I need more than I thought I ever would is a good partner in Whitney.

A (31:37)

Yeah.

B (31:38)

And what that looks like for both of us. She works with kids all day, and so there's days when she gets home where her tolerance for kids is done. She's run. She's run out of.

A (31:49)

Understandably. So. Right.

B (31:51)

And there's days where I. I mean, even recently had some really heavy stuff at work. And. And for me, the majority of that time is people related. Yeah. Whether it's. We're. We've got somebody that got injured, or we've got. We're dealing with a complicated situation, personnel wise. Whatever. And Whitney and I both. It's. We've had a lot of success. When I can come home and I can say, and I'm not gonna lie to you, dude, there have been a couple times in the last year where it's, like, on the verge of tears, like. And I. I have walked in and I've walked straight to Whitney, and I've said, like, I just need you to know I'm having a really hard time holding it together today.

A (32:37)

Yeah.

B (32:38)

And I need to just go sit down for 10 minutes and I need to, like, decompress. And I will do my best to put on a brave face and be here. But making sure that Whitney Knows. Okay. He's, he's trying to cope with this. He's got a lot on his plate and she needs to be able to do the same with.

A (32:59)

Absolutely.

B (33:00)

Because the other thing that, and you know, I don't know that we're doing this right. But I try to be transparent with the girls about where I am mentally.

A (33:10)

Yeah.

B (33:11)

Meaning I, I will if I'm getting a little short with them or, you know, because, gosh, they get home from school at 3:30, 4:00 clock and they're really excited to see me when I get home. Yeah. And I'll just be honest with them and I'll just be like, girls, I, I have got a lot of. I've got a lot on my mind. I've got a lot on my plate. If I'm, if I don't see myself or if I'm short with you, I need you to just give me some grace because it's not, it has nothing to do with you.

A (33:42)

Yeah.

B (33:43)

I just, I have to, I have to work through this. And you know, I, I think with older kids, like 8 and 11, they're starting, they're starting to understand that.

A (33:55)

Yeah.

B (33:57)

And it takes the pressure off of you as a dad to just set the record straight with the whole family.

A (34:03)

Yeah.

B (34:03)

Your wife, your kids. So I, you know, the other thing that you mentioned is we're getting kind of deep here. But, you know, I've struggled. It's not like, it's not seasonal depression, but I've struggled with cyclical periods of being really good mentally and really not good.

A (34:29)

Yeah.

B (34:29)

And I, you know, I don't mean like in a, in a dangerous way towards myself, but like, there's times where mentally I'm, I'm really good and there's times when I'm not. And what I've learned over the years is there's some really important things that I do that keep me in a healthy place.

A (34:46)

Yeah.

B (34:46)

One of those is exercise.

A (34:48)

Absolutely.

B (34:50)

And it's, you know, I get up every morning at 4:15 and I go to the gym.

A (34:54)

It's great.

B (34:54)

And I'm, I'm back here. I try to be back here exactly when the kids are waking up. And from a, you know, regulating stress standpoint, having time to myself. And it's guilt free time. Yeah, it's guilt free time because the kids are here, they're asleep. There's nothing else I'm supposed to be doing other than exactly what I'm doing in that moment.

A (35:15)

Yeah.

B (35:16)

Right. And I can listen to podcasts, I can Listen to music, I can sweat, I can suffer, and then I can come home and I can start my day. That is really important to me. And it's. I enjoy doing it, but there's days where I don't want to get out of bed and go do it. Yeah, but that's one of the things that I have to do to be the best version of myself for the family.

A (35:35)

Well, you know, I think as, as fathers get older, finding what those things are for you is incredibly important. I have my things. Exercise is one of them. Whether it's lifting weights, going to play tennis, and who I am as a person, that is directly correlated to how I parent in a positive way. It takes a level of discipline to do it. It's not always convenient. To your point about waking up early, it takes a lot of time. There's other things that you have to say no to to be able to do it. And whether it's exercise or, you know, doing something else, making sure that you are who you need to be is going to result in you being the parent that you need to be for your children. And it took, it took me a while to figure that out. Yeah, I think there was, there was an expectation of this parental perfection 100 of the time, and you just needed to suck it up, buttercup, and you needed to do better.

B (36:27)

Yeah.

A (36:27)

It's just not, not, not realistic.

B (36:29)

That's right.

A (36:30)

And as I've learned, not only for myself, but then also to your point about Whitney, working with my wonderful wife who has a full time job, she started her own business and is just an absolute superhero. That open communication about how we're doing between each other so that, you know, one of the, one or the other can kind of surge into, maybe cover the gap while we get, you know, while the other individual gets themselves right. It's, it's like a, it's like a hack. It really is the importance of that spouse that loves you, that trusts you, and knows that you're doing the best that you can for the family, for her and for the children. Being vulnerable and saying, hey, I need 30 just to get right. It took me a long time to, to get to that point. And if I'm being perfectly honest, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not doing as good as I need to in that. Yeah, you do it for the sake of yourself, but you're really doing it for the sake of how you parent.

B (37:30)

Yeah.

A (37:30)

Because you show up better.

B (37:32)

Yeah. And, you know, just to be like, be realistic, there are days Where I think, I've had a hard day. And I walk in the door and I can just tell. I'll look at Whitney and I can just tell, oh, she's had a hard day.

A (37:52)

Yeah.

B (37:52)

And it's kind of like. And, you know, you said, suck it up, buttercup. There's a. There are times where you have to just say, embrace the suck.

A (38:02)

Oh, yeah.

B (38:03)

And just say, okay, well, she's not in a place where she can take on anymore, and I'm gonna do that. And, you know, I haven't talked about this with her, but I'm sure she has the same feeling. There's probably days where she comes home and she's like, I cannot wait for Lee to get home because I need 10 minutes to myself. And I walk in the door and I have that look on my face. And she probably says, okay, here we go. Here we go.

A (38:29)

That's right. That's right.

B (38:31)

But that's why it's such a blessing to have a good partner in parenting. Right.

A (38:40)

Absolutely priceless. And, you know, the only reason that, you know, there's any positivity or constructive learnings about parenting is because of my wife.

B (38:49)

Yeah.

A (38:50)

She's the one that is, you know, the, the. The anchor and just has taught me so much about parenting, mainly through the mistakes that I've made, but has done so with the love and the grace and.

B (39:04)

Yeah.

A (39:06)

You know, been married for absolutely 20 years. It just never changes. Like, that's just life. And as we, you know, each of our kids continue to go through their stages, that's the one constant thing is your spouse.

B (39:17)

Yeah.

A (39:17)

You know, Talked earlier about 16 year old. You know, we've spent almost 90% of the time in her life. We've, We've. We've already spent that with her.

B (39:25)

Yeah.

A (39:26)

And so we've had, you know, you heard this concept of empty nest syndrome.

B (39:29)

Yeah.

A (39:30)

And while, say, as the oldest goes to college, we're still going to have the other two coming up, but we've. We've kind of grappled with and have had conversations about, like, the early feelings of empty nest syndrome.

B (39:41)

Right.

A (39:42)

And while we've got a long ways to go before we're truly empty nesters, we actually do find our side. Our, our. We find ourselves with more time.

B (39:52)

Right.

A (39:52)

And making sure that we still enjoy each other's company.

B (39:55)

Absolutely.

A (39:56)

That we enjoy doing things together. That we laugh.

B (39:59)

Yeah.

A (40:00)

Do activities that are not directly associated with the kids, which is really, really hard to do.

B (40:07)

Yeah.

A (40:08)

The fact that. Or as my daughter kind of has Picked her path. After high school, we were kind of, like, reminded by that when we had these emotions of, oh, my goodness, our. Our baby's going to college.

B (40:20)

Yeah.

A (40:21)

Oh, my gosh. Like, as time. As time moves on, it's just going to be you and I. Yeah. And so there's actually been a lot of positivity that's come out of that, of just being more intentional about finding time with your spouse. That time with your spouse is no different than the time with your children. That intentional time.

B (40:38)

Right.

A (40:39)

Just gives you an opportunity to remember why you fell in love in the first place. You got married.

B (40:43)

Yeah.

A (40:44)

It develops, you know, more sense of trust, understanding, and grace. So that when I do walk in the door after she's had a long day and she looks at me.

B (40:53)

Right.

A (40:53)

And knows that I'm absolute toast people to work through those things because there's that connection between you and your wife. So. Well, yes. Parenting is incredibly important. Taking care of yourself and making sure that you're prioritizing and treating your wife the way that she deserves. And to be clear, I'm not great at that.

B (41:10)

Right.

A (41:11)

Uh, but when. When we do do that, things just happen to. They just feel like they fall in place a little bit better.

B (41:20)

Couple things first. You said your anchor. I just. I just wanted you to know there's this. This song that I love, and this. I think the title of the song is called Ball and Chain. And, you know, I. It's really a pet peeve of mine when people say, ah, the old lady's calling, or, I gotta get home to the old ball and chain. Yeah. It bothers me just because I love my wife and I don't want to be disrespectful in that way, but there's a guy that wrote a song called Ball and Chain, and he shifts the metaphor and. And he says in that song, he said, every big ship needs an anchor. Right. And it's a love song about my old ball and chain. And it's the fact that, you know, a massive ship without an anchor in the middle of the night would run aground. It would just get pushed around in the ocean without anything to keep it in place.

A (42:19)

I like that.

B (42:19)

And so I love the positive spin on that. It's, you know, because some people would say, my wife's an anchor. Dead weight holding me back. But I think the reality is every strong man needs an anchor.

A (42:34)

Yes.

B (42:35)

To keep them grounded and keep them in place and. And keep the ship where it needs to be. Yeah. It's a lot of a Lot of power there.

A (42:41)

There's. There's no great man that has been on this earth that didn't have a great woman behind him.

B (42:47)

Right.

A (42:47)

And I think that is even more true for, for parenting.

B (42:52)

Right.

A (42:53)

And staying on the same page requires that connectivity between you two, and then it makes that parenting so much easier to do. Why? You know, the, One of the most important. You know, there's two, Two important choices in life. Right. Like, you know, what you choose in religion. Right. Why you think that you're here on this earth and.

B (43:13)

Right.

A (43:13)

You know, the, the guide by which you live your life and then who you choose as a spouse.

B (43:18)

Right.

A (43:19)

Reason that my kids are as great as they are is because of my, My anchor.

B (43:25)

Yeah. Something else that you just mentioned was. And I want to talk about, like, pursuing your wife a little bit, but I'm reminded I, I got some advice years ago that was. Not only is it okay, but it's. It should be something that you do often, which is there are times where Whitney and I will sit on the couch and we will tell the kids, hey, this is mom and dad cuddle time. Because the girls, I mean, they're affectionate, they're loving, they want to come pile on the couch, and we do that a lot. But it's also okay to set boundaries and say, girls, this is mom and dad cuddle time. We're. We're snuggling on the couch. We're connecting. And the frame that really helped me with that was. And I, I, I think we talked about this a little bit on, On a previous episode, but girls and boys need to see what healthy love and affection and a relationship looks like.

A (44:38)

Yes.

B (44:39)

And I don't think it's a bad thing for your children to know that there are times where you prioritize love and affection with your significant other.

A (44:48)

Yes.

B (44:50)

That's something that they should see you do.

A (44:52)

They should not only see us do it, but they should see us enjoy it.

B (44:56)

That's right.

A (44:57)

You know, we, we attempt to do date night as frequently as possible, and because my kids are older, we don't really have to worry about child care so much. Having older children. And, you know, the kids have learned when mom and dad says that it's date night, mom and dad are going to get ready, and then we're going to go out to eat. Yep. And there's no calling, you know, hey, you know, Reed's not doing his piece of the dishes. Like, they've learned to respect that time.

B (45:24)

Yeah.

A (45:25)

That, I think, is a, A good example to them. And it, it recharges us. And as we walk back in the door from a date night and we see our wonderful children there, like it's just a sense of gratitude that, that actually develops as Christy and I spend time for our children. So color on the couch. Going on date night.

B (45:43)

Yeah.

A (45:43)

It's hard to do it, though.

B (45:44)

It is.

A (45:45)

As demands on your time get greater. Obviously going on date night's got a financial implication to it, but it is one of the most important things that you can do to be a good father.

B (45:57)

Yeah.

A (45:57)

Is to find that time with your wife. Yeah.

B (46:00)

And you know, the financial implication piece. It's funny, we, we are blessed with some amazing friends that have kids the same age and over the Christmas break, we somehow pawned our kids off for sleepovers and both the girls went on one night and. Which basically means we've got child care. Right. And it's funny because Whitney and I got back to the house and you know, it's 3 o' clock in the afternoon. It's kind of like, well, what are we gonna do tonight? You know? And we used to do this thing before we had kids when we really didn't have money to go do stuff where I would carry the mattress into the living room and put the mattress on the living room floor.

A (46:42)

That's so good.

B (46:43)

And we would just lay in bed because back then that was the only big TV that we had in the house. Yeah. And we'd lay on the mattress on the living room floor and we would watch Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Die Hard, whatever the series is, and just binge watch it together. And although I'm a lot lazier now, and we have a bigger TV in the bedroom. But I, I just told Whitney, I was like, why don't we just do nothing? Like, let's just make grilled cheese sandwiches and get a bag of chips and queso. Yeah. And let's just go lay in bed and binge watch whatever you want to watch.

A (47:22)

Is one of the most life giving events. Activities that you could do.

B (47:28)

That's right.

A (47:29)

That's so great.

B (47:30)

Yeah. So I, you know, I think pursuing your wife is important and it takes time and, and you know, I said this before, but it's, it's a phrase that's really stuck with me, which is you just have to give yourself grace and understand that it's direction and not perfection.

A (47:47)

Yeah.

B (47:48)

And you're going to look up and you're gonna, you're gonna look at your wife and you say it's been like Two months.

A (47:54)

Right.

B (47:55)

Since we have had more than an hour alone together. You know, give yourself some grace and say, let's get, let's get something scheduled. You know, what are we doing this weekend? Let's make it happen.

A (48:06)

Put it on the calendar.

B (48:07)

Put it on the calendar.

A (48:08)

Right.

B (48:09)

I, I just know that I, I live in a world of extremes. I just have an extreme. You know, maybe you could even say, like, addictive personality. And it's kind of like I'll find myself in this headspace. Like. Well, you know, it's, it's, it's too late at this point. Like, we've already, we've already failed.

A (48:27)

Missed it.

B (48:27)

Right.

A (48:28)

Yeah.

B (48:28)

And the reality when, when I find myself in those situations is I'm just one decision away from being back on track.

A (48:34)

Yeah.

B (48:35)

I just have to do the thing.

A (48:36)

Yeah.

B (48:36)

You know.

A (48:37)

Yeah. Being able to flip that switch, very difficult to do. I find as we were talking about earlier about like exercising and those things that kind of help you reset your mind.

B (48:50)

Yeah.

A (48:50)

Being able to flip that switch. I think, you know, our responsibility as husbands and as fathers is to be the one to flip the switch.

B (48:57)

Right.

A (48:57)

And not expect the spouse to flip the switch.

B (49:00)

Right.

A (49:01)

But how much joy can come from a flip switch? It's kind of unexpected, unanticipated, but being able to do it. Your wife and your kids see that in you and it just completely changed the whole dynamic of the family.

B (49:14)

Yeah. So I wanna, I wanna ask you something specifically because Pearson is 16 and this is something that we've been starting to experience a little bit, which is when kids and I, I would say girls, because I, I'm. At least. We don't have boys. I think it probably exists with boys too. But what has it been like for you as the, the girls transition into like preteen and teenage years? You know, I've, I've had a lot of other dads be like, oh, man, enjoy it while it lasts. Because the years that are coming are rough.

A (49:58)

Yeah.

B (49:58)

They're not going to want to spend any time with you. They're not going to want to talk to you. They're just going to want to stay in their room all day. What has that been like for you? And, you know, what do you do about it?

A (50:10)

Well, that situation applies to my 16 year old daughter and my 14 year old son.

B (50:16)

Yeah.

A (50:19)

Every father in that stage is going to go through some version of that just because it's when those kids are just kind of finding their own identity.

B (50:29)

Yeah.

A (50:30)

And they're under so much pressure during the day, academics, you know, friends, whatever activities that they're in that, you know, they also have a tremendous amount of hormones that are changing in their body that affects not only their body but their mental state. And they just kind of want time to like, decompress and like do their own thing and not have mom and dad tell them what to do. And that's something that we battle on a, on a weekly basis of just getting them out of their room as their, as they're going through that. So it's a balance of like respecting it, giving them their time, giving them their space. Trying to find those things that the family enjoys doing together is difficult. Again, you got a 16 year old, an 11 year old. So the activities that are enjoyed by the entire family are in that Venn diagram. That middle right section is incredibly small.

B (51:24)

Right.

A (51:25)

A couple of the things that I found that we do as a family that, you know, kind of neutralizes the hormones and the stage of life of the 16 year old and the 14 wanting to be in the rooms. We like to cook together and we'll kind of say, hey, we're going to do a family dinner.

B (51:40)

Yeah.

A (51:40)

Let them choose what they want to make, have them make it, turn some music on, dancing in the kitchen. It seems to always be a great time. And then we're a big sports family.

B (51:50)

Yeah.

A (51:51)

For some reason we, we've recently got into cricket, so we've been watching cricket in the evenings, kind of learning about how cricket works.

B (51:57)

Yeah. Knee before wicket.

A (51:58)

Yeah.

B (51:59)

Never good.

A (52:00)

I don't know what that means, but my, for some reason my kids know what that means and they're teaching us what it is.

B (52:05)

Absolutely. Yeah.

A (52:06)

But just having those experiences together, it becomes more difficult. But again, you just have to be intentional to try to find them. And when you do find them, you see them kind of come out of their shell a little bit. They come out of their rooms and they have that good positive experience with their siblings and with their mom and dad.

B (52:23)

Yeah.

A (52:24)

But unless you're intentional about it, and sometimes it takes a little bit of coaxing or forcing the kids to be able to do it, it just kind of resets the dynamic in the family.

B (52:36)

What have you. What is, what does family vacation look like for you guys? Do y', all, do y' all do that?

A (52:45)

We do. We, we love family vacations.

B (52:49)

Yeah.

A (52:50)

I, I travel quite a bit for, for my job. Yeah. And so I'm not really the first one to want to jump on an airplane again because I, I do that quite a bit. But The. The family absolutely loves travel. We are a beach and water family.

B (53:05)

Okay.

A (53:06)

And this summer we had the opportunity to take the family down to Turks and Caicos. And it was really the first time that we as a family had been to the beach in a couple years. It was a, you know, very special thing to do.

B (53:18)

Yeah.

A (53:19)

And limitation on screens. You're on the beach, you're throwing the football, you're swimming, you're snorkeling, you're paddle boarding. We do all meals together.

B (53:28)

Yeah.

A (53:29)

And it's just amazing how whenever you have extended amount of time away, it has to be away from the house. Because when you're in the house on spring break, you still have all the pressures of being home and laundry, but being away. This is really when the family's at their best.

B (53:46)

Yeah.

A (53:47)

Everyone's battery gets recharged. We'll make sure we're intentional about doing what each of the kids wants to do.

B (53:52)

Right.

A (53:52)

That's a big vacation. Obviously, those don't happen very often.

B (53:56)

Right.

A (53:57)

Trying to get away for a day or two. My wife is really good about this, saying, okay, listen, we need to go just get a hotel. We as a family need to just get away from the house and go do something. And she's. She's always right. When we end up doing it, we always benefit from it. It just recharges our individual batteries, but kind of the family battery. And we just enjoy that. We actually, we remember that. We enjoy being together.

B (54:23)

Yeah.

A (54:23)

Do y' all enjoy doing vacations?

B (54:26)

Yeah, we. We are on a. A mission to get the girls to every national park before they graduate.

A (54:36)

Oh, it's great.

B (54:37)

Whitney and I. Well, I. I don't remember going to a lot of national parks as a kid. I traveled a ton as a kid. My parents were a lot older, and it was a story for another day, but I traveled a ton as a kid on airplanes with them. And so we tent camp as a family. Oh, that's seems insane. I love it. Whitney not so much, but she puts up with it because what we've. What we've really kind of decided is the girls absolutely love tent camping. We all sleep in a six person tent. And so we go on a road trip every year and it's normally eight or nine days and it's two national parks. There have been. There have been a couple flights out to California and Washington just because the drive's not worth it. But it's funny, we've. We're being very strategic with that though, because Love all the national parks, but they're not all created equal.

A (55:38)

Okay.

B (55:38)

And so we've tried to hit the national parks that we need to just go because they're part of the national park system.

A (55:46)

Yeah.

B (55:47)

And we're saving, like, we haven't been to Yellowstone. We haven't been to Yosemite. We haven't been to the Dry Torture Tugas, which is down in the Florida Keys.

A (55:56)

Yeah.

B (55:56)

We're saving those. We probably, as they get older, there's going to come a time where they don't want to tent camp anymore. But Whitney and I have just decided, as long as they want to tent camp, we are going to tent camp.

A (56:09)

Just run with it.

B (56:10)

Run with it.

A (56:11)

Yes.

B (56:11)

Even though, you know, it's uncomfortable for us sleeping on the ground and all of those things. But there will come a time where our family vacation morphs into road tripping and staying in hotels so that everybody's more comfortable and all of those things. And the. That time together as a family is just unbelievable.

A (56:34)

Yeah. Do you involve the girls, like, the planning of where y' all go? Is that a conversation that you have as a family, or do they just not care? They know they're sleeping in a tent with mom and dad. Sign me up.

B (56:46)

They know they're sleeping in a tent with mom and dad. All they really care about is they want to be able to play outside.

A (56:54)

Oh, so beautiful in its simplicity.

B (56:58)

And I. We actually talked about this with James last week. We actually have to take a step back because we want to go and do everything, and we want to go and experience everything. And there's times where the girls just want to play in the dirt with sticks, or they want to swim in the river. And being okay as a parent with just saying, this is what they want to do, this is what we're going to do.

A (57:19)

Let them live in the moment.

B (57:20)

Right. And, you know, we like to go to the beach, too. We. We do a lot of beach vacations, and the beach can be the same way because they would literally stay at the beach for 10 hours.

A (57:33)

Yep.

B (57:34)

And, you know, at some point, after being at the beach for four hours, it's just like, okay, yeah, like, this is. This has played out.

A (57:40)

Yeah.

B (57:41)

Let's go do something else.

A (57:42)

What's next?

B (57:43)

Right.

A (57:43)

Yeah. So having, you know, I talked earlier about just, like, the. The mental realities of having essentially 18 months with my daughter left before she goes to college. And even today, as we think about, you know, my wife and I looked at our schedule at the beginning of the year, and we're essentially booked through June.

B (58:07)

Right.

A (58:07)

Of this year with like two or three open weekends.

B (58:10)

Right.

A (58:11)

And the time that you have available to go and do those things, that window just gets. It just closes on you. And as you know, they go off to college or whatever they're going to do after high school, that. That time just reduces even more. So the fact that you're being intentional about that, doing something that they love when they're younger, they're going to remember that for the rest of their lives because it gets more challenging as they get older.

B (58:35)

Yeah, absolutely. It does. Okay. I want to go back. You said something earlier that I just want to talk about for a second about empty nester syndrome. And, you know, I. I don't know the. The statistics on this, but I know there are a lot of divorces that happen between 17, 18 years of marriage and 20, 24 years of marriage. Right. And I think a lot of that stems from kids leave the house, you're in the house with your wife, and you wake up one day and you're like, I don't know, you.

A (59:21)

Yeah. Who is this?

B (59:21)

Who is this person?

A (59:22)

Yeah.

B (59:25)

And we talked about intentional time with, you know, pursuing your wife and, and spending that time. Whitney and I are. Are kind of different. We've known each other since we were 13 years old, and we waited five years before we had kids to have our first kid. And so it's. It's funny, the. We are so thankful for all of the time that we get with our kids. And I don't want this to sound the wrong. Wrong way, but there's a part of me that's like, I'm ready to. I'm ready to just be with my wife again.

A (60:00)

Absolutely.

B (60:00)

You know?

A (60:01)

Yes.

B (60:01)

And it's hard to say that out loud because it makes you feel a little guilty.

A (60:05)

It. It does. I'm with you a hundred percent. I think I'm gonna crush being an empty nester. Like, I'm gonna. That's like, the only thing I actually may nail in life. But the reason that I feel that way is because of those moments in time over the last 20 years, even after, you know, having. Having kids, of, oh, man, I really like you and I love you and I spend time with you, and I wish that we could do more of this.

B (60:33)

Right.

A (60:33)

If you're not intentional on, you know, keeping the fire alive or kind of keeping that mindset up about your spouse.

B (60:40)

Yeah.

A (60:41)

I absolutely can understand and can appreciate why the divorce rate is so high at that phase of life. And life's difficult. It's incredibly complex. You Know, we as individuals change over time, environments change over time, but spending that time together, not only for the sake of your spouse, but also for the sake of your kids would. Has me very excited about Empty nester. I sometimes admittedly dream about not having any kids in the house for expended extended amount of time.

B (61:11)

Right.

A (61:13)

Yeah, it's a, It's a. It's a very, very good point.

B (61:17)

Yeah, I, I think that's. That's a good word. And I think for people listening, like, if you're a. If you're a dad, if you're a spouse and this, this is really making you feel guilty, or maybe this is something that you struggle with as a husband. Man, it's not too late. Yeah, just start today. Yeah, just pursue your wife. Don't. Don't look up after your kids leave and find yourself married to a stranger. And that's 100% in your control.

A (61:53)

Yeah, I think a lot of. A lot of fathers our age that have. Take the responsibility of providing for the family very seriously, and they're very involved and engaged in their work. You know, you referenced it earlier.

B (62:08)

Right.

A (62:08)

Got a big job, got a lot of responsibilities, a lot of stress that comes with that. Um, I think. I think work and the emotion and the time associated with work can be one of the biggest undermines of being the best husband and father that you can be. And of the many challenges that I to this day struggle with is deprioritizing to make room, space, time for the wife and the kids, because it's very easily to mentally justify prioritizing that over your wife and kids. Well, if I can just do this, then I can make more money, I can get that promotion, I can get this bonus, and then for. I can do this for the family. Therefore, me spending the time and the effort in work versus the family is probably one of the most consistent recurring challenges that, that I have that try to get better at every single day and have moments of clarity where it's easier to make those decisions than just moments of abstract disaster of, you know, choosing work over wife and family. So not only the time with the wife, but kind of where you. You choose your mind to be when it comes to time.

B (63:23)

That's right.

A (63:24)

Work is a big. Has been a big challenge for me.

B (63:27)

Yeah, this is something that Whitney and I have really opened the door for communication on, because something that I wrestle with a lot of. I said this, I think, with Pete, which was, I'm trying really hard to do it better for my kids than I had it and what that, what that means for me is absolutely, I want to be a better father. I want to have a stable home environment. You know, my children, my. My parents got divorced when I was 10, and my life after 10 was utter chaos. A lot of dysfunction. We moved almost every year from 10 years old till I graduated high school. And I would love to get into that more at a later date. But I wrestle with this concept of my number one priority is my family. I work hard to provide for my family, and I'm keenly aware that my number one priority is my family. But my efforts at work and the fruit of my labor at work allow me to provide for my family in a way that I didn't have. But there are moments where, when you're gone for a long time or you have to go to a trade show over spring break where you're riddled with guilt because you're like, what am I, what am I doing here? I. The only reason I'm here is to provide a better life for my family. This is not a better life for my family. Yeah. Because I'm not with my family.

A (65:15)

Yeah. You're missing, you're missing that life that you're shooting for. Yeah.

B (65:19)

But I think, you know, I think again, just, you have to give yourself some grace and understand that I. I hope to be able to bless my kids with generational wealth. I hope to be able to help my kids financially start their lives that I didn't have. I hope to be able to help them either go to secondary education, start a business, pursue some type of technical trade, whatever that looks like. And, you know, I. I just have to. It's kind of like sacrifice now or sacrifice later, but you have to sacrifice either way. And I. I don't know that there's anything to be done there other than to just keep that, keep that frame of reference because, you know, the work life balance conversation. I don't know that work life balance really exists.

A (66:28)

No, it doesn't.

B (66:29)

There's times where it's 80 work, 20 life, and then there's. There's times where it's 20 work and 80% life.

A (66:37)

That's right.

B (66:38)

It's never 50, 50. It's never going to be 60% family, 40% work. You know, but just being aware of that and understanding that the seasons of life and dedication and work that are required to do what you want to do for your family, and that's. Okay, give yourself a break there, but be aware of it and, and talk, talk to your spouse about that. Right.

A (67:08)

Yeah. So the communication, and you've mentioned it a couple times between you and Whitney is the, the expectations about, you know, what you want to accomplish as a family or what you want to accomplish for your kids. I think, you know, we're, we have some of our biggest challenges in parenting is when we're not communicating. Expectations get off. Therefore, you know, there's that resent resentment that comes into the conversation and the feelings and the emotion that then compounds. You know, I, I have created this year coming out of kind of thinking about the new year, what to do different. I have a couple hour block that I've set aside in my work schedule to just make sure that Christy and I have time without kids to be able to talk, to plan, to think about what's coming up. And I've never done that before. And we're just early into it and it's going to be difficult to keep it consistent. But I can, you know, just in a little bit of time that we've done it. That communication is making us better parents.

B (68:10)

Yeah.

A (68:10)

Because expectations are set between us and can set them with the kids.

B (68:15)

One thing that I've done in my professional life is there's a very, very well respected guy in my industry who said this. He gave a speech and he said this, but he said, and this guy is a, this guy was a C suite executive at, at a Fortune 50 company. And so, but he said, you know, my family is my number one priority. And, and kind of just regurgitated some of what I said just a minute ago. But he said what he does is he, the first thing that goes on his calendar for every year is his family calendar. Is his family calendar. Now that doesn't mean that he doesn't still miss things and that doesn't mean that there are times where he has to make the decision not to be there.

A (69:07)

Yeah.

B (69:07)

Because that's what the demands of the job are.

A (69:10)

Right.

B (69:12)

But at least give yourself the opportunity to plan around your family life. Because, you know, like, I'm in control of a lot of my schedule and not everybody has that freedom. But there are a lot of things that I can't miss. But there's also a lot of things that if I tell them what days I can't be there, they won't schedule them on those days. And if I, and I already did it for this year, I planned the entire. I know every day that the girls aren't going to be in school. I know every day that I need to be here because Whitney has something that she needs to Take care of it is the first thing that's on my calendar for the year. And I would just say I started doing that two years ago, and I found I'm naturally able to be at more stuff because I took the time to put it on the calendar.

A (70:06)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so. It sounds so simple. Difficult to do.

B (70:11)

Yeah.

A (70:11)

But in doing it, there's kind of an unlock in your. In your time for not only yourself, but. But your family and everybody. Everybody wins.

B (70:20)

Yeah. All right, I have two last questions for you.

A (70:23)

Okay.

B (70:25)

The first one is if you could go back, you know, maybe if you could write yourself a note, you know, that the title of the podcast is to dad from dad. Because, you know, what we're trying to do here is pass wisdom back. Wisdom that we wish we could go back and give ourselves, but pass it on to future.

A (70:49)

Yeah.

B (70:49)

Guys that are behind us. Right. If you could go back to before you had kids or early in your fatherhood, what is. What is something that you. What would you tell yourself?

A (71:04)

Yeah, it's a. It's a great question. It's a very tough question. You know, if I had to. To give you one answer, and we talked about it a little bit earlier, but intentionality with time. I mismanaged my time as a father, and whether that was out of laziness, out of frustration, out of exhaustion, out of work, out of wanting to, you know, go do this, go do that. I was not as intentional with my time as I needed to be. And it's. You know, it's that emotion that, as I think about it now, it, like, hurts because I know. Yeah. How much I missed. As I'm thinking about my children, where I've only got 30, 20, and 10% of my time left with them in life.

B (71:55)

Right.

A (71:56)

That just hurt deep down. Intentional time and really just making sure that not only the intentional time, but making sure that my head was right in that time.

B (72:08)

Right.

A (72:08)

That the kids knew that I was their only focus and not thinking about or doing about anything else that was going on. Life. I miss that. I missed that pretty big. And I still to this day feel the need to try to make up for it, but I'm trying to make up for it at a time when they're not really interested and they don't really need it. They. They needed it more back then.

B (72:30)

Right. Yeah. I. You. You reminded me. I. I was thinking about this the other day because the. James, which is the podcast that'll drop this coming Sunday, he told me something which was whenever they go on family vacation, it always takes him at least a day or two to kind of settle in to being like vacation dad.

A (72:58)

Right.

B (72:58)

Where he's in the right mindset.

A (73:00)

I know, Vacation dad, right? Yeah.

B (73:03)

And I was just thinking to myself at work, there's times where I have to stand up in front of four or 500 people and talk.

A (73:11)

Yeah.

B (73:12)

And talk for 10 minutes, talk for an hour. There's times where I have to lead, you know, two or three day long, you know, seminars or training sessions or whatever. And when I think about in my professional career, the preparation and the time that I spend getting myself in the right headspace to be on for a hundred people for two days, because I don't have, I don't have four hours to warm up. And I take that very seriously in my professional career. And I was just reflecting on. Shame on me for not doing that same thing at home.

A (73:55)

Yeah, right.

B (73:58)

It's. And it's really just obviously spend a lot of time planning where are we going to stay, when are we going to leave, where are we going to get gas, where are we going to eat? All of the tactical elements of it. But I spend very little time reflecting on, okay, how do I need to show up as a dad to be the best version of myself for my kids? And so as we prepare for spring break trip this year, going to national parks, that's something that I'm going to focus on. That's because a day or two ahead of time, I'm going to start thinking, what headspace? When we get in that car and we leave San Antonio to drive for six hours, where's my head at?

A (74:41)

That's that foresight. And you know, what's driving that behavior based upon not doing it? Well, in the past, I've mentioned multiple times that there are things that as your children get older, become easier. You know, one of the things that is more difficult as my children have gotten older is not feeling like I have to prepare as much.

B (75:07)

Right.

A (75:08)

Because they're turning into their own individual person. They've got their own likes. We don't spend as much time together. And I find myself having a tendency to attempt to wing it because they don't want to spend as much time with that. Sometimes I'm like, okay, I don't really want to spend as much time with you either, which is not the right response. But I don't find myself being intentional. So you doing that while your children are young, it's even though the, the, the, the time that you spend with them as they get Older reduces. It actually becomes more important to be. Be more intentional because you only have a short amount of time with them.

B (75:45)

That's right.

A (75:46)

That's great.

B (75:46)

Yeah. Okay. The last question I've asked everybody so far, which is, I'm really struggling to perfect this question, but when you're not here anymore, what is something that you hope your kids understand about you? And I clarify this every time, but, you know, I'm not asking what do you hope that they remember about you. I'm not asking what's going to be read off at your eulogy, at your funeral. What your kids understand about you is something that you can't tell them. It's something that they're going to have to arrive at on their own, like deeply understand about you as a man, as a father, as a husband. What. What is something, something that you really hope that they just know to be true about you?

A (76:44)

Yeah. You know, I've. We talk about, you know, being a father, you know, you've kind of referenced about your childhood growing up. Every. Each of us have our own dynamic about our parents growing up. But what has been like another learning experience for me is keeping up the relationship, like with my father as he gets older.

B (77:07)

Right.

A (77:07)

And what I have come to learn and to understand about what he did when I was a child as I get older and experience being a father myself.

B (77:19)

Right.

A (77:19)

And there's so many things that both of my parents did fantastically well in raising myself and my three brothers, you know, for my children, even though that they would not understand it if I attempted to articulate it to them today, is that I just want them to be the best person that God wants them to be.

B (77:38)

Right.

A (77:39)

I don't care what that looks like. I don't care where it is. I don't care what they do. I don't care about their job, I don't care about their education. I just want them to be the best person that God wants them to be. And that the decisions that I make, my attitude, how I engaged with them, not only them, but how I lived my life was because I love them so much and I want them just to be the best person that God wants them to be. And that's. It's a pretty. It's a pretty complex emotion and feeling because there are so many things that as I'm debating a decision, so I'm trying to figure out how to handle a situation and, and that that impacts my kids. Like that's really at the root of it. But they don't know that now.

B (78:33)

Yeah.

A (78:33)

They see that Dad's on an airplane.

B (78:35)

Right.

A (78:35)

Or why is dad jumping my tail about this? Or why does he even care about this? Much less he's not happy about it. Why is he want. At the root of it all is I just want them to be the. The best person that God wants them to be. And my prayer is that as they get older and as they experience life and then hopefully as they have families and have their own children, they'll come to understand and respect it, much like I have for my parents.

B (78:58)

Absolutely. Man, that's powerful. I think something that my dad has done really well. I don't ever wonder if my dad is proud of me, you know, and that's. That's where my. When I was just listening to you talk about that, I. I think about how much of your kid's life, you know, you never know how much of their life is going to be after you're gone.

A (79:27)

Yeah.

B (79:28)

Right. And so, you know, kind of what I hear you saying is, like, when you are gone and your kids are in there, you know, 40s, 50s, 60s, whatever it is, that they would be able to think about you and think about where they are and what they're doing and say to themselves, like, this is what dad would have wanted. But not only because this is what dad wanted, but because my heavenly Father, I know that this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

A (80:02)

Yeah.

B (80:02)

And that would have made my dad really happy.

A (80:05)

Exactly. Very well put. That's a. A great, simple articulation of it. And you know why? You know why I think that, well, we are going to be gone someday.

B (80:20)

Yeah.

A (80:20)

And our kids are going to have a portion of their life after we leave, and them having a little bit of responsibility to themselves of what I expected of them to be. The best person that God wants them to be is a bit of. Kind of that legacy kind of lives beyond my time on this earth.

B (80:40)

Right.

A (80:41)

So to your point that as they make decisions, live their lives, and they know that they're doing it the right way, that they. Yeah. They can put a smile on their face and know that I'd have a smile on mine.

B (80:52)

Yeah. All right, well, thank you, everybody, for listening. Again, the best way to support the channel at this point is just. Just to share it. We're just trying to get our. Our reach out there. So follow us on Instagram, follow us on YouTube, subscribe to the podcast, leave us a good review. And hey, I. I said this, and I'll say it again. Check us out on 2dadfromdad.com There's a Q A submission form on there. And one of the things that I'm most excited about is as the viewership and the audience grows of this, is I'm really excited about hearing from people who found the podcast. And I, I said this last time, but if there is something that you're struggling with or if there is a topic or a circumstance or a situation that you're in that you feel like is unique or you feel like you're alone in something, something, if you'll send me an email to that link and just let me know what the situation is, I will go and find somebody who is in a similar situation or who has been there before you and we'll bring them on and we'll talk to them about whatever it is. So to dad from dad.com check out the Q A submission form, drop me a note, let me know what you're interested in, what you want to hear more of. And I'll just also add that here in the next video few weeks, we've got a couple folks coming on who aren't yet dads and we're going to get to explore what it's like for them as they kind of decide when to have kids and what are the conversations looking like between them and their spouse with the phase of life they're in. And then we've also got some folks coming on who are in the grandfather stage.

A (82:41)

That's great.

B (82:42)

So empty nesters. We've also got some folks coming on who have struggled through some infertility stuff but have found some amazing blessing through adoption screen. And then, you know, we've also got some more blended family stuff coming up. Some blended family stuff where, you know, maybe if you listen to the episode with the podcast with Gray, maybe it was a circumstance where you didn't really get to pick your dad name because it was later in life. So we're trying to cover a lot of content with a lot of great, great human beings on the podcast. Ryan, thank you for being one of those. So glad that you came, took the time to do this. I appreciate it, man.

A (83:23)

Really, I appreciate the opportunity. And when I learned about, you know, you starting this concept and kind of explained what you had in mind, it, it, it's a, it takes a lot to put yourself out there to be able to do it. I know I was intimidated. I tried to back out of this a couple times to conversation with you. I just think fathers, especially fathers that are maybe in our age bracket, not as many of them have people to talk to, as maybe you and I do. I think we're very lucky. We're very blessed to be able to sit down and have a conversation like this that helps in keeping ourselves accountable, but just knowing that we're not alone out there.

B (84:05)

Right.

A (84:06)

And so you putting this together and putting it out there and the opportunity for others to put questions in about things that they're struggling with, you've set up a phenomenal platform to help a lot of people and many that probably need it because they may not have the same type of friend relationship that some of the people that on this podcast have. So thank you for having me.

B (84:29)

Absolutely.