10) Kill or Be Killed

Summary

Podcast Summary: "To Die For"
Episode 10: "Kill or Be Killed"
Release Date: June 4, 2024
Hosts: Tenderfoot TV and iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In Episode 10 of the gripping podcast series "To Die For," titled "Kill or Be Killed," host Neil Strauss delves deep into the harrowing world of sexpionage and the brutal realities of Russian intelligence operations. This episode spotlights the chilling firsthand account of Aliia Roza, a professed "sex spy," as she navigates the treacherous landscapes of war-torn Chechnya. Through her story, listeners gain an unprecedented glimpse into the psychological and physical toll of espionage and combat.

Background: The Chechen Conflict

To understand Aliia's journey, the episode provides a comprehensive overview of the Chechen wars—two brutal conflicts that have defined the relationship between Russia and Chechnya since the 1990s. Dr. Mark Galeotti, a renowned expert on Russian affairs, explains the historical context:

"Chechnya has fought against Russian occupation for centuries. When the Soviet Union dissolved, Chechnya declared independence, leading to the first Chechen war. The second war, initiated by Putin's regime, was marked by unprecedented brutality and the use of torture, assassination, and mass murder of civilians." (17:02)

Aliia's Story

Departure and Training

Aliia Roza's story begins with her reluctant departure to the front lines of Chechnya. She reveals the isolation and fear she experienced:

"I didn't speak with my parents or my sister. I felt like this is the end, and they'll give me the relief." (02:17)

Upon arrival, Aliia is thrust into a dire situation:

"The smell was the smell of death. Man sweat mixed with blood and the land. The first night, I didn't sleep at all." (07:56)

Relationship with Rashid

A pivotal figure in Aliia's journey is Rashid, a fellow soldier from Kyrgyzstan, who becomes her mentor and confidant. Their bond forms amidst the chaos of war:

"We were ordered onto trucks and sent to the front lines. Rashid started telling me funny stories to ease the tension." (06:29)

Rashid imparts crucial survival techniques and emotional support:

"Don't hesitate. Press the trigger. If you hesitate, that’s the moment you will be killed." (25:34)

Experiences on the Front Lines

Aliia's deployment is fraught with moral dilemmas and relentless violence. She grapples with the ethics of killing civilians and the dehumanizing effects of war:

"We were attacking civilians. They were normal families protecting their country. It made me nauseous." (11:50)

The scarcity of resources leads to brutal raids on villages:

"One day, soldiers decided to rob a village for food. They killed an old man who tried to defend his home. It was senseless brutality." (13:26)

These actions incite retaliation from the Chechen militia, intensifying the cycle of violence:

"The raid didn't go as planned, and the villagers retaliated. It was a revenge that I could understand, yet I was still a target." (14:09)

Moral Conflict and Psychological Toll

Aliia's internal struggle with her role as a soldier becomes increasingly unbearable. The relentless fear and exposure to death erode her sense of humanity:

"I reached a point where I didn't care what would happen to me. I just wanted to get out." (29:30)

Her relationship with Rashid provides fleeting moments of solace but also highlights the stark contrasts in their coping mechanisms:

"Rashid tried to comfort me by comparing humans to animals, but I couldn't see them as anything other than fellow human beings." (25:34)

Climactic Battle and Aftermath

A turning point occurs during a fierce bombardment of their base, leading to catastrophic loss:

"I saw Rashid's mutilated body next to me. He was joking just moments before. I felt guilty and helpless." (33:38)

Injured and traumatized, Aliia faces the immediate aftermath of battle:

"I couldn't stand up. My leg was broken. I screamed for help but couldn't hear anyone." (31:19)

The episode captures her descent into despair as she grapples with the loss of comrades and the futility of her mission:

"Seeing these young soldiers die for nothing—it doesn't make sense. Where is the justice?" (35:23)

Expert Commentary

Dr. Mark Galeotti provides critical insights into the broader implications of the Chechen wars:

"The second Chechen war was a brutal conflict that showcased Putin's determination to assert control over the region. The use of extreme violence was a strategic move to reassert dominance." (20:11)

He also discusses the propaganda and dehumanization tactics employed by both sides, exacerbating the conflict and deepening mistrust.

Conclusion

"Kill or Be Killed" serves as a poignant exploration of the human cost of espionage and war. Through Aliia Roza's narrative, listeners are confronted with the grim realities faced by spies and soldiers alike. The episode underscores the psychological scars and moral quandaries inherent in conflict situations, offering a sobering reflection on the nature of modern warfare and intelligence operations.

Notable Quotes

• Aliia Roza (02:17): "I felt like maybe this is it, this is the end. Which they'll give me the relief."

• Rashid (25:34): "When you hunt animals, they also have families. But you are the hunter. Never think that these people are somehow associated to anyone else."

• Aliia Roza (29:30): "I just want to get out. I just want to go to somewhere else. Maybe in another world."

• Dr. Mark Galeotti (17:02): "In Russia's interest, this region must be rendered devoid of life."

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For those seeking a profound and unsettling dive into the world of espionage and war, Episode 10 of "To Die For" offers a compelling and immersive experience. Subscribe to Tenderfoot [e-mail] or on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening and exclusive bonuses.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host or Narrator]

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[Warning Voice]

Warning.

[Alia]

The following episode contains explicit language and sexual themes. Listener discretion is advised.

[Rashid]

So you went to your place, you packed up. Did you talk to your parents at all?

[Alia]

No.

[Rashid]

So you didn't even tell your dad you were going to Chechnya?

[Alia]

No.

[Rashid]

Really?

[Alia]

I just. I don't know. I just didn't speak with them. We didn't talk for like quite long time. For the whole year.

[Rashid]

Did you tell anyone else or anyone in your family?

[Alia]

No.

[Rashid]

Not even your sister?

[Alia]

I couldn't speak with my sister. I mean, I was not allowed to speak with my sister.

[Rashid]

You might have like died in Szechnya and your family just would have found out.

[Alia]

I mean, they would find out at some point.

[Rashid]

I mean, they would find out through like a letter or someone showing up their door. But you never even would have told them you were going to the war.

[Alia]

Well, they said that I wish you to be not alive. I was thinking, I mean it doesn't matter if I will go, even if I will be dead. They don't really care anyway. I felt like maybe this is it, this is the end. Which they'll give me the relief.

[Narrator or Voice Actor]

You. I'm really sorry. I had to do it. Got to go on my own. You didn't guess the behind. I was holding my gun. I got you, I tell you. I had to kill you. Was it so much?

[Rashid]

Episode 10 Chapter 22 Sent to Die.

[Alia]

So in the morning I arrived at the train station and we all lined up. I had my backpack with me, and I.

[Rashid]

It was one of the worst days of Alia's life, and possibly one of the last. As punishment for rejecting her new commander's advances, she had been sent away to die on the front lines of a war 500 miles away.

[Alia]

So first we sat down into the train, and everybody in the car were just young boys. The eyes were full of fears. I looked at them, and everybody just had only one thought. Will I survive? Will I come back?

[Rashid]

The train was bound for the border between Russia and Chechnya, a mostly Muslim region just north of the country of Georgia. It was annexed by Russia in the 19th century, and ever since then has been trying, with varying degrees of success, to be unannexed and independent again.

[Alia]

When we arrived at the main station, we were giving this uniform. It was, like a thick jacket. The color was dark green. Everything was much bigger than my size. And they gave us guns, but, like, sniper guns, VCC and svd. I didn't have any idea even how to, like, use these guns.

[Rashid]

Some nine years earlier, Chechnya had declared its independence, and now Alia and her fellow soldiers were there fighting in a war for Putin, who was determined to retake control of the territory for Russia. This was the second Chechen war.

[Alia]

And then I had this guy, and he was standing next to me, and he was from Kyrgyzstan. I think he probably saw, like, that. I was all depressed because I was standing there as a zombie. He was telling me some funny stories and very stupid. And I looked at him and, like, can you, like, stop? And he said, is it, like, your first time? I'm like, yes, of course it's my first time. He's like, relax. It's like my second time. So no worries. Nothing happened. See, I'm still alive. I'm still here.

[Rashid]

The newly arrived soldiers, including Aliyah and the man she was talking to, Rashid, were then ordered onto trucks and sent to the front lines.

[Alia]

He was talking, and then he started to smoke, and everybody was smoking. And I just. I thought, like, maybe it will help me out. So I tried to smoke, and then I was coughing, and I said, fuck it. I'm not doing this. Like, I couldn't. And then he said, good, good. It's better not to smoke if you're a sniper. And I was like, why? And then another guy was sitting next to me. He said, if you smoke in the night, your enemy may see you. And if they can just track or, like, calculate where your hat is, they can kill you in your, like, hut. So it's better not to get used to the smoke. And I said like, oh, yeah, good to know. Thanks. We were driving for a couple hours. It became dark and cold, and we arrived to the place where far away, we could see it was not like even town, but small kind of village with a few houses.

[Rashid]

Aliyah and her new squad members were then brought to a makeshift military base on top of a hill.

[Alia]

They said, okay, so this is your station. Obviously, no shower, no TV or anything like that. No computer, no telephone, no Internet, of course, no nothing. And the smell was the smell of death. When you smell man sweat together with blood, together with the land. I can remember in my nightmares, I mean, there were only guys that was kind of like a little bit concern me. But you know what? Nobody even thought about sex. Because the most important instinct is to survive. The first night, I didn't sleep at all, and I didn't hear anything. It wasn't any, you know, bombs or gunshots. And then in the morning, around like 5am, I felt so cold. It was freezing, and I couldn't even hear any birds singing or anything like that. It was deadly quiet. And I looked at the guys. They were sleeping like babies.

[Rashid]

Over the course of her first day on the front lines, Alia's friend from the train station, Rashid became a mentor of sorts to her. He showed her the safest corner of the barracks to sleep in and taught her other best practices for staying alive that he learned on his previous deployment in Chechnya.

[Alia]

I was trying to wash my face. He said, don't do it. And I was like, dude, are you crazy? Like, this is hygienical things. I need to wash my face. And he said, now, if you're a sniper, because if your face is clean, then the color of the clean skin reflects the light, and then the other sniper can see you and can shoot you really, really well.

[Rashid]

Rashid taught Aaliyah more about concealment and shooting a rifle, and they were assigned as buddies and given night lookout duty.

[Alia]

We were starting to talk a lot, and I kind of, like, get used to his stupid jokes. And while we were, like, sitting there, I remember he was asking me questions like, so where did you study? What was your department? Who was your commander? And slowly, slowly, I just opened up to him. I thought, like, you know what? I can tell him. Why not? So I told him the whole story from the beginning.

[Rashid]

When Aliyah got to the part of the story about turning down the advances of her commander, the lieutenant general, Rashid had some strong words about him.

[Alia]

He's like, oh, like that prick. I heard a lot of stories about him. He sent many soldiers to the front line knowing that they would be killed. He still did it. He didn't care about their families, about their lives. So he just basically sacrificed their lives for nothing. He said, he's a very bad commander. And I said, well, that's why I'm here. I guess it's just bad luck.

[Rashid]

After a few days, Alia began to realize the full, grim nature of her assignment. Shooting at people who she didn't know and couldn't see, who were also shooting at her and wondering at the same time, was she even on the right side.

[Alia]

Here we were attacking civilians. We were fighting normal families. They were protecting their country. We were attacking them. And then I heard a lot of stories about Chechen men, how cruel they are, how do they torture people, how they would cut you apart just for their pleasure, just to have fun. They would cut off the head of the Russian soldiers, and they would send it to either Russian commanders just to kind of, like piss them off and scare them. All these, like, stories made me nauseous.

[Rashid]

Aliyah didn't know whether these stories were true or just dehumanizing propaganda, but it kept her close to the base and on high alert in case of attack.

[Alia]

We didn't have enough food, and one day, a small troop of my colleague soldiers decided to go to the village to get some food. I mean, not to get some food. They would basically almost, like, rob this village, right? So, I mean, the Russian soldiers with guns, hungry. So, of course, the village population would just give wherever they wanted just to leave them alone and not to kill their families and their kids.

[Rashid]

But this time, the raid didn't go as planned.

[Alia]

There was an old guy, old enough to fight, but he still had a gun in the house, and he tried to kill my colleagues, but they shot him first. So it was terrible, you know, it was terrible because they're like old people in that village who were just killed for nothing.

[Rashid]

It's unclear whether one man in the village was killed or several people. But this act of senseless brutality shattered the quiet on the base.

[Alia]

When they brought the food, it was the feeling that this food had, like blood, you know, like, it's just. You couldn't just even eat it. It's almost like poison by the blood of innocent people.

[Rashid]

The next day, snipers began shooting at the base. Evidently, the villagers had informed the Chechen militia about what had happened, and now they were taking revenge. A revenge that, in some respects, Alia could understand.

[Alia]

It really pissed that mercenaries off. That's why they came and they started to basically kill us. If he wouldn't do it or if they wouldn't go to the village, you wouldn't have this problem.

[Rashid]

Despite Alia's empathy for what the Chechens were going through, she was also a Russian soldier, the target of these mercenaries. And she had her orders.

[Alia]

Our commander wanted to terminate them by killing them.

[Rashid]

So that night, Alia and Rashid went to their lookout location, knowing that this time they might not come back.

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[Alia]

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[Rashid]

Chapter 23 Aaliyah's Prayer Russia.

[Alia]

Has waged a brutal war against Chechen separatists since the 1990s.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

The violence began when a former Soviet.

[Expert or Historian]

We have fought against the Russian occupation for centuries.

[Alia]

We even had our own home holocaust. Stalin deported the entire population.

[Expert or Historian]

The Minister for Defense provided a report on Chechnya. Let me quote from the text. In Russia's interest, this region must be rendered devoid of life.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

The Chin were pretty formidable. They were a strange mix of volunteer local militias, ex military and foreign fighters.

[Rashid]

This is Dr. Mark Galeotti, who is one of 29 British journalists that the Putin regime banned from Russia in 2022. He's also the author of several books on Russia, including Putin's Wars.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

The Chechens themselves think of themselves as wolves, but they regard the wolf as being essentially something to live up to, but on the one hand absolutely ferocious in defense of the packaging, but one that ultimately depends on and protects the pack.

[Rashid]

Because this region and the Caucasus Mountains and the Chechens who live there are very little understood. I've called Dr. Galeadi to help explain the war that Aliya was fighting in.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

Of all the Various parts of the Soviet Union. The one that was probably the most unruly, the most reluctant to be under Moscow's control was Chechnya. It had been finally annexed by the Russian empire back in the mid 19th century. And essentially whenever the central government looked weak, the Chechens rebelled.

[Rashid]

Dr. Galeotti explains that when the Soviet Union dissolved, Chechnya took the opportunity to declare independence. And though the Russian army tried to stop them, they didn't succeed. This was the first Chechen war, and.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

In effect, the Chechens fought the Russians to a draw that time.

[Rashid]

Then Putin came to power and decided to finish Russian business in Chechnya. But first he needed a reason to go back to war.

[Expert or Historian]

A few weeks later, there were several terrorist bombs in Russia. Over 300 were killed. It wasn't clear who done it, but most Russians were ready to blame the Chechens. But some now say that these events were orchestrated by the spies inside Putin's power base, the fsb, successor to the kgb.

[Rashid]

I may tell you without any doubts that the second war was initiated by FSB as a provocation. They provoked Chechen. This became the second Chechen war, the one that Aliya was now caught up in. Here's Dr. Galeadi again, who also hosts the podcast In Moscow's Shadows.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

So essentially, yes, this is very much Putin's war, and also this was his opportunity to essentially demonstrate to Russians across the country that things were going to be different now. It gave him a chance to pose with tough guy macho rhetoric, but also make the point that Russia was back.

[Rashid]

Even by the low standards of war, the second Chechen war was a brutal and horror filled conflict on all sides, which included torture, assassination, mass murder of civilians, and suicide attacks.

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

Gaul civil wars have a tendency to be deeply unpleasant, but in this case, brutality was mobilized as another weapon of war. I mean, there were at least 40,000 civilians who died. And we have cases of cities like Grozny being levelled, even when there are civilian populations within. But we also have a huge range of everything from outright atrocities to just simply heedless brutality. Looting, for example, was widespread.

[Rashid]

This is audio of a Chechen fighter returning a laptop that was looted by Russian forces. How he got it back, we probably don't want to know. In the end, Putin ultimately won his war. But at what cost?

[Podcast Host or Narrator]

What happened is essentially Chechnya was brought under control, but it was brought under control, firstly by massive levels of brutality, secondly, by promising the new Chechen elite huge amounts of money and considerable autonomy.

[Rashid]

With this context, now let's return to Aliyah and her fellow soldier Rashi, as they walk to their lookout point on the Russian Chechen border, where the looting of Russian troops has led to a retaliatory attack by the Chechen militia.

[Alia]

So we went to our location with Rashid at the. At the small hill. And while we were laying there, like, I was just looking at the watch all the time. 1am, 2am, 3am, 4am By 5am I noticed that I was shaking. I was cold as well. But, you know, like, this feeling when you scared so much, it's like your heart is shaking, and it gives this shake to all your body. So 6am We've heard some gunshots from our side. It wasn't that long for a few minutes. And Rashid, he touched me with my shoulder and he said, okay, now. Like, now. And he pressed the trigger and he shot the enemy. He said to me, it's simple. Now it's your turn. And I saw through the scope, I saw the face with the beard and with the hat. And I stopped breathing at that moment. But I waited. I felt like the blood and the heart beating through my ears. Like, I could feel that my heart is beating so loud. Rishi told me, like, do it now. I pressed the trigger. And it was a silence. Press the trigger. I didn't cry. I didn't feel anything. That time, that moment. I just didn't feel anything. I felt the metallic, you know, metallic. I don't know how to say it. I just felt the strength of the gun. And I didn't look again. I just closed my eyes like that. Then Rashid told me, good job. Was it a good job? I don't know. I laid there for maybe an hour in a silence. Rashid also didn't talk. And then in the morning, later, we returned to our base. I didn't want to talk to anyone. I drank a little bit water, but I couldn't even. I couldn't even eat anything. When you experience something like that, it's just so much stress. It was like almost like nauseous, even. Think about the food. I felt asleep. When I woke up, it was already dark. And only Rashid came to me. He said to me, how do you feel? Like, you okay? Like, yeah. And he said, well, let's go. Let's go back. We need to, you know, to go back to our position. So I said, like, yeah, let's go.

[Rashid]

As Alia and Rashid walked together, he spoke to her about his own challenges in coming to terms with a horrible act of killing, trying to help her feel better about the events of the day before and likely the day ahead.

[Alia]

When we were walking and he talked to me, his eyes were always warm, you know, like he was really kind. And he loved nature. He always was like looking at the sun and telling like, it's so beautiful and leaves and trees. And he was a perfect sniper and killer. He told me about wolf. He was a young boy. His father took him for the hunting. And he said, I saw a big wolf. And he said his eyes were so beautiful. And he said, he looked at me and father said, like, don't hesitate. Press the trigger. And he said I couldn't do it because the wolves were so beautiful. Like just beautiful animals. These like strong eyes. And he said he felt really bad after he made me to feel a little bit better. I told him, listen, it's still human being and it's still someone's son, perhaps father, brother, husband. And he said to me, never think this way. He said, when I hunt animals, they also have families. But you are the hunter. Never think that these people are somehow associated to anyone else. Because if you will start to do this when you hesitate to press the trigger, that exactly the moment when you will be killed. He said, you just don't think like you aim it. You press the button. We came to the position that night. It was quiet. I could hear how the wind was.

[Rashid]

Going through as they set up their guns and lay waiting in this eerie quiet. Alia's dreads soon came back. Despite Rashid's talk.

[Alia]

That smell and that coldness and that disgusting feeling of the metallic cold weapon in your hands constantly where your finger is just stuck closer to the trigger. And you're always in pressure, waiting.

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[Alia]

It out.

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[Rashid]

Even after several more Nights of stillness broken by gunfire. Aaliyah never became comfortable with the horrible task required to survive. The constant terror, sleeplessness and discomfort ate away at her.

[Alia]

Like I came to the point where I just was thinking that I don't care what will happen. I just want to get out. Like you don't care anymore even, you know, like at some point you're so scared. You're scared, you scared, you scared, you scared. And then you. At some point you're just like so tired to be scared that you're like, fuck it if I will be killed, I don't care anymore. Like I'm so tired, you know, like it's like you're just so exhausted. You just feel like even if it will happen to me, it's okay. I saw enough. It's fine. I just want to go to somewhere else. Maybe in another world.

[Rashid]

But instead it just got worse. One night in particular, just before a big mission. Alia was plagued by nightmares and found herself praying in her half sleep.

[Alia]

Please God, please just get me out of here. Please. I don't want to be here. Do something so I can leave this place and I want to go home.

[Rashid]

She slept fifily and then suddenly she awoke to noise and chaos all around her.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

When I. I woke up, I felt.

[Alia]

Like something is going on and people like running and it's some kind of like tension. But I didn't know exactly what happening.

[Rashid]

What was happening is that her base was being pounded by grenades and mortars.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

The half of the base, it was just bombard like that. And the whole like land and sun and everything just with all this, you.

[Alia]

Know, like soil, it just flew under my.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

On the top of my head like just with a. How do you call it? Like with the. With the bomb like pressure and Because I was laying in the corner like Rashid gave me that. He gave me that. He gave me that corner because it was the most safest place, he said. And he gave me that safe place. They all were under the. Not all of them, but like 80% of my friends they were killed. Parts of bodies were everywhere. I couldn't stand because my left shin had something fall on it. Like the wooden huge stick which was like next to my place where I slept. It's like it folds on me, but it fold exactly on my leg. And it broke my bone. And I didn't know exactly what happened, but I couldn't stand up. And I. When I took this like land out and all this stuff, I saw the bone, the white bone which was like out of my Machine through. Through the trousers which I was wearing all the time. And I couldn't do anything. I started to scream like. Like, help, Help. But I couldn't hear anyone. The lieutenant was light, but it wasn't.

[Alia]

I just remember Rashid's face laying just next to me. And he didn't have half of his body. It was just his head and arms and just his shoulders. And he was joking the last time. He said, hey, why don't you marry me?

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

You know, we will be such a good couple.

[Alia]

I'll take you to Siberia to introduce to my mom.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

She love you so much.

[Alia]

I was laughing. I said, you still did. I wish I would never say it to them. I wish I would say yes. I felt guilty. He cared about me, you know, not like others. He really did. He never tried to like, even touch me in a way where he would like, hit on me or something. Like, not like any other man. He was really noble.

[Rashid]

These thoughts flashed through Alia's mind as she lay under the rubble, unable to move.

[Alia]

Everything was like in a dream. My commander lieutenant was like, screaming and calling like, is anyone. Is anyone. Anyone can hear me? And I screamed like, here, here, like, come here. He came with another guys. He looked at me like. Like, you know, like, what's going. Like, what. What happened? Like, where the pain. Like you injured.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

What?

[Alia]

And I show him on the leg, like, yes, yes, I broke my leg. They helped me from my arms to get me out. We went out from the. From the base a little bit further, like under the hill. And we sat over there from about like 40 soldiers. There were only 10 people left. Only 10.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

All these boys. These boys, like 23, 22, even 25.

[Alia]

They're just little kids. They've.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

They've didn't see anything in this life. And they were killed just in front of me.

[Alia]

Me.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

They were just killed. And that's it.

[Alia]

That's the.

[Alia's Commander or Narrator]

The. And when you see like these young kids, like dying for nothing, how do you feel? Like, is it fair? Even, like, where is the justice? Why? Why? Like, what's the reason of doing that? You know, like, even, like, it doesn't make any sense.

[Rashid]

A support team eventually showed up in a military truck along with two medics who examined Aaliyah.

[Alia]

They said to Lieutenant, I mean, she's like, pointless soldier right now. She. She can't do anything. She can't walk properly. So when they started to untie the bandages, I started to scream. And they gave me. I think it was Morphe or something like that. I don't know because I remember that feeling. I was laying just in front of the car and I looked at the sky and the sky I remember exactly clouds. And it was blue, so blue that you felt like it's like a heaven. And I just closed my eyes and I passed over and in the car I remember I woke up and I started to scream and then my commander said shh. Like relax, rest, rest. It's gone too stressed and I close my eyes again.

[Rashid]

Aliyah's story continues in episode 11. If you're experiencing a post traumatic stress, mental health or suicidal crisis, you can call or text 988 for immediate support. Veterans can press 1 to be connected with the Veterans Crisis line To Die for is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeart podcasts. The show is hosted and written by me, Neil Strauss, with additional writing assistance by Tristan Bankston. Executive producers are myself, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. For iHeart podcasts, executive producer producers are Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. Lead producer and editor is Tristan Bankston. Additional editing by Miles Clark and Christian Brown supervising producer Tracy Kaplan. Consultants include Nooshin Felizadeh, Chelsea Gooden and Jamie Albright. Artwork by Byron McCoy Original music by Makeup and Vanity set mixed and mastered by Dayton Cole. Our theme song song is Killer Shangri La by Psychotic Beats featuring Patty Amour Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA Beck Media and Marketing, Oren Siegel, Becky Jensen, the Nord Group, Meredith Stedman and Alex Vespested.

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