'Christianity Isn't an Aesthetic or Trend': Discussing the Rise of Christian Content & Culture

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Christianity Isn't an Aesthetic or Trend": Discussing the Rise of Christian Content & Culture

Title: To My Sisters
Hosts: Courtney Daniella Boateng & Renée Kapuku
Episode: "Christianity Isn't an Aesthetic or Trend": Discussing the Rise of Christian Content & Culture
Release Date: March 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of To My Sisters, hosts Courtney Daniella Boateng and Renée Kapuku delve into the concerning trend of Christianity being commodified and treated as an aesthetic on social media platforms. They explore the implications of this trend on genuine faith, community, and spiritual growth, providing insightful critiques and heartfelt discussions aimed at fostering authentic Christian living.

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1. Christianity as a Social Media Aesthetic

Courtney and Renée open the conversation by addressing the phenomenon of Christianity being embraced as a trendy aesthetic, particularly among young women on social media. Renee states, “Christianity as an aesthetic. We're going to be talking about trends, we're going to be talking about aesthetics, and we're going to be talking about the true cost of being a Christian” (00:32).

They highlight how superficial displays of faith—such as curated Instagram posts, vision boards, and aesthetically pleasing Bible verses—are becoming standard, potentially overshadowing the deeper spiritual commitment required by Christianity. Courtney questions the authenticity behind these displays, asking, “Is this truly a transformation of your soul and your spirit? Or is this a strange strategic branding move?” (01:10).

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2. Superficial Faith vs. Genuine Transformation

The hosts emphasize the difference between outward expressions of Christianity and genuine spiritual transformation. Renee notes, “You're bringing so many broken people with,” (00:46) pointing out that while many are professing faith, the lack of true spiritual discipline can lead to superficial adherence without real change.

Courtney reinforces this by questioning the depth of individuals’ faith, pondering whether their public declarations are rooted in true salvation or merely for personal branding: “Are you saved or are you saved for pay?” (01:10). This challenges listeners to reflect on the sincerity of their faith practices.

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3. The Dangers of Self-Proclaimed Religious Leaders

A significant concern raised is the rise of self-proclaimed prophets, apostles, and teachers who lack genuine spiritual maturity or proper training. Renee criticizes the proliferation of such figures without accountability, asking, “Where did you get your certification?” (01:27).

Courtney concurs, expressing apprehension about individuals using their platforms to spread doctrine without being part of a local church community, thereby lacking the necessary oversight and discipleship: “Repentance. Yeah, repentance is a huge one” (49:35). They argue that without proper mentorship and accountability, these leaders can lead followers astray.

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4. Importance of Community and Local Church

The episode underscores the vital role of community and local church involvement in fostering authentic Christian growth. Courtney asserts, “Christianity is very much a communal thing” (10:29), emphasizing that genuine discipleship cannot occur in isolation. The hosts discuss how online communities often lack the depth and accountability provided by in-person fellowship, which is essential for spiritual maturity.

Renee adds that isolation on social media can make believers vulnerable to spiritual predators and deceit, highlighting the necessity of being part of a local church where one’s faith journey can be nurtured and supported.

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5. Cultural Christianity and Political Exploitation

Courtney and Renee explore how Christianity has been intertwined with political ideologies, particularly conservatism, leading to a politicized form of faith. Renee observes, “If you're conservative, you're Christian” (47:43), critiquing the blending of political motives with religious beliefs. They caution that using Christianity as a tool for political gain dilutes the core message of the Gospel and shifts focus from personal salvation to societal influence.

Courtney warns against aligning faith with political agendas, stating, “Repent and truly change. It's not... You can't say that God hates abortion, but then treat every immigrant as an illegal alien that needs to be killed and fought off” (52:31). This highlights the ethical contradictions that arise when religious beliefs are manipulated for political purposes.

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6. The Problem of Greed and Prosperity Gospel

The hosts tackle the issue of greed within certain Christian teachings, particularly the prosperity gospel. They argue that the emphasis on financial success and material wealth distorts the true essence of Christianity, which calls for self-sacrifice and spiritual growth. Renee mentions, “There are too many of us that won't confront that our idol is greed” (54:25), pointing out how economic exploitation is often justified under the guise of faith.

Courtney echoes this sentiment, expressing concern over Christians using their platforms to exploit followers for personal gain, thereby betraying the selfless principles taught by Jesus.

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7. Authenticity and Accountability for Influencers

Addressing Christian influencers and content creators, Courtney and Renee stress the importance of accountability and authenticity. They urge influencers to ensure that their teachings align with Biblical truths and to publicly correct any past mistakes. Courtney emphasizes, “Teachers will be judged harshly... You are going to be judged for being a teacher and taking up that position and authority” (59:43).

Renee supports this by encouraging influencers to pray for their followers and guide them towards sound doctrinal teachings, rather than solely seeking personal validation or popularity.

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8. Final Thoughts: Returning to True Christianity

In their concluding remarks, Courtney and Renee call for a return to the foundational principles of Christianity—authenticity, sacrifice, and community. They challenge listeners to embrace the “uncut” aspects of their faith, acknowledging that true Christian living involves facing hardships and making personal sacrifices: “Christianity is literally about death to self” (57:56).

The hosts encourage believers to seek genuine relationships with Jesus and within their local church communities, moving away from the superficiality of social media aesthetics. They emphasize that true faith requires transformation and a commitment to living out the Gospel in all aspects of life.

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Conclusion

This episode of To My Sisters serves as a critical examination of the current trends in Christian expression, particularly on social media. Courtney Daniella Boateng and Renée Kapuku offer a thoughtful analysis of the pitfalls associated with treating Christianity as an aesthetic or trend, advocating for a return to authentic, community-based faith practices. Listeners are encouraged to introspect on their own faith journeys, ensuring that their expressions of Christianity are rooted in genuine spiritual growth and not merely in superficial displays.

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Note: Timestamps are referenced as they appear in the provided transcript. For a more immersive experience, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

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[Courtney]

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[Renee]

Christianity as an aesthetic. We're going to be talking about trends, we're going to be talking about aesthetics, and we're going to be talking about the true cost of being a Christian.

[Courtney]

A lot of people are giving their life to Christ. Yay for that. People are obsessed.

[Renee]

You're bringing so many broken people with.

[Courtney]

No discipline where it can become dangerous. And what we're seeing is it being aestheticized, like becoming an aesthetic. The Christian girl aesthetic.

[Renee]

It's perfectly possible to be spiritually empty and dead and yet pose as if you have life.

[Courtney]

Absolutely. Are you saved or are you saved? For pair?

[Renee]

There are too many people that are self proclaimed prophets, apostles, teachers, this, that, but this. Where did you get your certification?

[Courtney]

Is this truly a transformation of your soul and your spirit? Or is this a strange strategic branding move?

[Renee]

What many of us are guilty of, of wanting the benefits without the sacrifice. Because implementing true Christianity again requires a sacrifice. You have to let go of something.

[Courtney]

Hello and welcome to the To My Sisters podcast. I'm Courtney.

[Renee]

And I'm Renee. And we are your online sisters and hosts of the To My Sisters podcast.

[Courtney]

We are all about promoting the wellness, growth and development of a community of sisters around the world.

[Renee]

And into today's episode, we are going to be talking about Christianity as an aesthetic. We're going to be talking about trends, we're going to be talking about aesthetics, and we're going to be talking about the true cost of being a Christian. I am so excited for this conversation.

[Courtney]

This one's a deep.

[Renee]

As you can see, Ms. CDB has brought out the sage Greek for this one.

[Courtney]

Shout out to wardrobe warehouse. I always get asked where this robe is from. You've also worn the. You wore the purple one at our live shows.

[Renee]

It's from.

[Courtney]

From Andrea Asari's brand Wardrobe warehouse purchase. It's gorgeous pieces.

[Renee]

You look stunning.

[Courtney]

Thank you. As do you.

[Renee]

The red lip is good.

[Courtney]

Thank you.

[Renee]

And I think it is a Studded attire, considering the gravitas of.

[Courtney]

No, you're not serious. I just want to look cute. I just want to look cute.

[Renee]

But it's good because it shows that you've come here for business, because much business has to be meted out.

[Courtney]

Okay, cool.

[Renee]

And I'm really. I'm personally excited for this conversation because you have spoken about this at length in other places, you know, and we've spoken about this in our private conversations, but Christianity as an aesthetic and the rise and seeing Christianity as a trend. I mean, it's been absolutely beautiful that we've seen so many people recently give their life to Christ, especially publicly and as, you know, fervent believers. It's always a beautiful people to see. It's always a beautiful thing to see. More and more people profess the faith. Absolutely. However, with the profession has also come the commodification. We are seeing lots of the journals, lots of the Christian girly routines, lots of content around, you know, just Christianity in general. And I actually wanted to start there. Let's talk about the aesthetic of Christianity and how there has become almost an archetype for Christian influences or folks that are on social media, that are Christians, that we now have to kind of adhere to the unsaid rule of this is what a Christian looks like on social media. So talk to me about what you've noticed online on social media in general, and what are the ramifications for that? For a lot of people that may be interested in Christianity or folks that are in the faith but are kind of looking at these things, thinking, I'm not really matching up.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah, that's okay. This conversation is definitely loaded. Such a good start to the conversation, though. I think a couple disclaimers are necessary. First of all, one, we are not the gatekeepers of Christianity. There is only one gatekeeper of Christianity. His name is Jesus Christ. The second is that we are not being critical of Christians. Like, we're not saying this is what Christianity must look like. It's the other end of what people saw on social media. It's not that at all. So I think we're not coming from a judgmental place. I think it's more of a correctional conversation around, like, let's just be careful as we see, like you said, the trend and the rise of it. What do I see? I think you highlighted it perfectly. I think a lot of people are giving their life to Christ, and yay for that. We love it as people who have been Christians for quite a while. It's really. It fills us with joy. When people find the faith and the faith that you share, where it's like, wow, like, we're all part of our big family. Oh my gosh, the body, absolutely amazing. And I think what we see naturally is, especially when something is new, people are obsessed with it and, you know, are very excited about it. And it's, oh, like, now I get to read the books and I want to know more about Jesus. I want to be in church all the time, or however your excitement to a new thing manifests. It's the same with Christianity. When you enter the faith, you can like being a baby Christian, as they call it. It's like, oh, I'm obsessed with Jesus. Jesus every day. And sometimes that manifests in you wanting to tell it to everybody, show it in every way possible, say it at any given time. And that is actually a really beautiful thing. I don't want to judge or condemn that, actually. I think where it can become dangerous and what we're seeing is what you said, the commodification, it being aestheticized, like becoming an aesthetic, the Christian girl aesthetic. Or it's now it leads people to now question, is this truly a transformation of your soul and your spirit, or is this a strategic branding move? We have to then question, are you saved or are you saved for pay? Are you like, saved? Because the cool thing is to be saved.

[Renee]

The scream. I scrumpt.

[Courtney]

The reason why I say that is because, and we've said this before, Christian girlies, Christian girlies specifically, we love to grow in Christ and that can make us a target for predators, right? Like, you actually have to be really careful about people. And it's in the New Testament. I think Ephesian talks about it how, like, there will be people who come to you with all manners of doctrine because of their own deceitful plots and schemes. And I think we have to be careful that we do our due diligence in seeing the fruit of salvation as the fruit of the spirit and the heart of somebody. And not just the fact that they are now making Christian content. Christian content. Your Instagram posts, you publicly professing your Christian faith is not a fruit of your salvation. It's not to say it's not good, but it's not the only thing that we should look at to determine spiritual maturity and, dare I even say, spiritual conversion. Because you can talk the talk. You can go to church, you can have the nice Bible, you can do the Instagram, post the Instagram live and even throw an event to do vision boards. No prayer boards. You know, all of that stuff. But are you saved? Are you saved? Like, is your soul? And when we say saved, are you saved with the evidence of the renewal of your spirit that can't necessarily be discerned just through digital content? Which brings me to another thing that I'm seeing with this trend.

[Renee]

We ain't even 10 minutes.

[Courtney]

I'm sorry. No. Because it's a big thing.

[Renee]

No, let's go.

[Courtney]

This is another thing that we're now seeing with this trend, which, again, it's not me being judgmental. It's just saying we need to be careful of is the rise of people being public professing Christians were not a part of a local body of church. Oh, Courtney, that's a big issue because it's your local body that will be able to see the fruits of this spiritual renewal. So if you're not in a place where your spirit can be discerned.

[Renee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Courtney]

Where your mature, where your maturity can be recognized, where your salvation can be testified of. All we have to go about determining whether you're saved is your word.

[Renee]

Just your YouTube videos.

[Courtney]

That's not how. Just your tiktoks. That's not how the early church works. That's not how Christianity actually works. Right. First of all, the spirit should be able to testify the fact that this person belongs to me. This person is saved.

[Renee]

Absolutely.

[Courtney]

God forbid if you're a Christian online, but Jesus don't know your name. And there are scriptures that say we did all these things in your name, but apart from me, I never knew you. So actually, Instead of your 100,000 followers knowing you, Jesus needs to know you. That should be your first priority. And that's all of our priority. No, Renee, I'm being serious. I'm trying to.

[Renee]

Courtney, I knew. No, no, I knew you were gonna come, but this one.

[Courtney]

No, I'm just saying Jesus needs to know your name. Does Jesus know your name? That's actually what matters. Jesus needs to know your name if you say you're saved. It's different if you're a charlatan and you don't care. You get what I mean? And you don't care about actually getting to the pearly gates. You don't care about. I guess the pearly gates is something else, but, like, you don't care about eternal life.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Right. You care about the rewards you get on.

[Renee]

Absolutely.

[Courtney]

For pretending like you've attained eternal life. That's a problem. That. And it makes me worried not just for the condition of your own. Your own soul, but for the people who are now watching you as a benchmark of what Christianity looks like, because then they may find themselves also deceived. That's a problem when you are not only a bad sheep, but you become a wolf. We've got to talk about that.

[Renee]

Oh, Lord.

[Courtney]

So, yeah, that's the trends that I see. I think it's the superficial Christianity sometimes. I think it's maybe choosing to go on this walk alone when Christianity is very much a. An us religion, you know, like God our Father in heaven, you know, it's the body of Christ, all of us being together, it's a communal thing. Whilst you are walking out your own salvation with fear and trembling, make sure you're actually walking. Some of y'all ain't walking, you're just posting, that's not a walk. But what do you think? I'm not trying to be. I'm not trying to be harsh. Thank you for the harsh. I'm being serious. No, you'll start. Stop it. Because you're gonna make people hate me.

[Renee]

Oh, they can never hate you whilst I'm here. Impossible. Impossible.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Wow. Cdb, you came out swinging there. I just want to. I just arrived. I just arrived.

[Courtney]

Just arrived.

[Renee]

I just arrived and it's good. Okay, you are swinging so quickly for people that have just opened. No, no, no. It's good that you're swinging so quickly for people that have opened this episode.

[Courtney]

But please share your thoughts.

[Renee]

But yeah, I completely agree with everything that you said. 100. I love that you mentioned the isolation that social media Christianity can bring. There are too many people that are self proclaimed and hear me when I say this, I'm not trying to be like rude, shady, etc. There are too many people that are self proclaimed. Prophets, apostles, teachers, this, that, but this. Where did you get your certification? Oh, where did you get it?

[Courtney]

I hear it, I hear it, I do. But I think to give a bit of balance to that though, because there are some people where it's like, no, I've encountered Jesus, I am changed. And you radically are now on this assignment of everyone must be. You're a top tier evangelist. And you know what, I hear it. However, I think you need to be. You can't afford to have such a radical transformation in a short window of time without some kind of supervision for a more mature, experienced Christian.

[Renee]

Not the French, because the general trend.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Renee]

The general. Like when I hear, you know, teacher so and so, pastor so and so, my automatic thinking is like, ah, so like what body are you a part of or like, what community are you a part of? Or who is your authority? Is there any authority there? And this is not to say that, you know, God himself is not an authority or authority enough. But I do think that there is something about doing again, Christianity, doing faith in community, especially when we know that one of the enemy's greatest tactics is to isolate isolation if you are finding yourself alone. And one thing that also frustrates me a lot is when we have a lot of, like, folks that profess the faith that basically their whole ministry is about bashing other Christians. Like literally everything I. I get. Discernment ministries are a thick. But why is watching your entire YouTube channel exposure? Oh, it literally feels that I'm watching a PBS documentary. It feels like I'm watching Crime Watch. Like genuinely Crime watch. Exposed. Insert name exposed. Insert name exposed. This person's thumbnail in the center with yours in the corner exposed. And there is nothing else but discernment and exposure. I don't get it.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Not only that, but cultivating that sense of deep suspicion in the body to the extent that you're now producing the same in other people. We were literally. Exactly. We were literally having this conversation, like with the sisters on the digital platform. Right. About how there are so many people. It's beautiful to see international ministries. It is so wonderful to see, you know, people tuning in from all sorts and all places, wherever. But if you are not tuned into fellowship in person, you can't tell me that you are living in the United Kingdom and there is no church. Zero. No. Not even a Bible study. Not even a small community. Something. Something that you can fellowship with. But the only church that you feel plugged into is in Atlanta, Georgia, a place that you have actually never even flown to. You've never been there. You've actually never been there.

[Courtney]

I'm sorry, you out of order.

[Renee]

You're telling me that. Zero. None in the unit. And you know what? Let me not.

[Courtney]

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Oh, my.

[Renee]

Let me know.

[Courtney]

Please, please, please.

[Renee]

Because they're going to see. I'm truly. I just want people to have community. No.

[Courtney]

100% community. 100%. It's just the way you said it. No, but you are 100% right. You are 100% right.

[Renee]

You're literally tuning in to all of these church. And the thing is, you won't even be tuning into one. You'll be tuning into all of these.

[Courtney]

People saying many places. And you wonder why you're sick.

[Renee]

Coming this week.

[Courtney]

Okay, sorry to break. Sorry, sorry. Because this what could be Easy for this conversation to become is a big rant about what you shouldn't do and no correction around or like guidance or just our thoughts around what it is you should do. So let's bring some guidance.

[Renee]

Some guidance.

[Courtney]

I think what you said was absolutely spot on. And I think it relates especially about the church thing versus local church. It relates to, again, this aesthetic Christianity. Christianity needs to look like whatever church is trending.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

At that time. And so if it's not, I'm just going to say name. If it's not how Philip Anthony Mitchell preaches, I don't want it. Yeah. If it's not how, what's another? If it's not how Greg Groeschel teaches, I don't want it. If it's not Mike Todd, I don't want it. And it's like, first of all, what you're doing is saying, I just want this one manifestation of how God is speaking. Because there's nothing wrong with 2819. There's nothing wrong with transformation Church. There's nothing wrong with these churches which are helping Christians to grow and mature. The thing is, though, you can't grow and mature virtually. You can't. It doesn't work like that. That is convenient Christianity. And nothing about Christianity is convenient. Nothing about Christianity is convenient. And so the thing about a local church and being discipled by someone who can see you up close, sniff you, be able to tell whether you are producing the fruits of the Spirit, is it actually forces you to mature. Which is why a lot of people avoid it. Because this whole running away from I've been church hurt. So I'm just going to attend church virtually, even if it's a local church, I don't want to be in amidst a congregation of people. I don't want to have to get up in the morning or in the evening to go somewhere to do the whole turn to your neighbor. I just think it's whack. I think it's tiring. I was hurt. What you're avoiding is your pruning. Therefore what you're avoiding is your deliverance. Right. That's what a lot of people are actually communicating. I don't want to have to change. I don't want to have to mature. I love the sound of a good teaching. I do love to have communion with the Holy Spirit. But forgetting that the Holy Spirit also prunes you through other people. Yes, Right. He also shapes you through other people. We can take a perfect example, right. Paul on the road to Damascus, had a personal encounter with Jesus first Of all that encounter was also, well, not encounter, but the, the miracle was also viewed by a lot of people. It said the people he was traveling with to Damascus, they felt the wind of what was happening around and they were like, what just happened? Number two, there was a physical markation of Paul's transformation or at least his deliverance process. He actually went blind. He could not see. And then what? God sent him a man to come and pray for him before the scales fell from his eyes. A lot of us think our encounter with Jesus, our deliverance and now our public preaching are just going to happen all by the way of our own purification and our own sending. That's not how it works. You can't ordain or commission yourself. That doesn't work like that. What did Paul, what happened to Paul? God sent him someone and said, there's a man named Paul who I've blinded. I need you to. I think his name was Ananias. I can't remember, but I need you to go and pray for him. And he was like, but Paul was killing Christians. I don't care about his past, but I'm sending you to go and be a part of his deliverance process. Right? So he now went, prayed for him. But then what did Paul do? He went to spend time with Peter. He went to somebody who had walked with Jesus for the three years. He went to somebody who had already been doing the work of ministry. He had already gone to somebody who had already harvested souls. He went to someone who was doing what he knew he, he was called to do. And even though they were once opposites or enemies or, you know, Paul hated Christians. He still went to be in the communion of the fellowship. He went to be in amongst people. Because his deliverance wasn't complete by the scales just falling from his eyes. He now had to be trained up in the ways of the Lord. The only way you can learn that isn't through virtual is somebody waking you up every morning to pray. It's somebody making sure you're on the prayer call at 6am we don't care about when your Insta story was posted. That could have been a picture you took last year. We don't know. But you know who will know. Your pastor knows. If you join the prayer line, your pastor knows. If you did the fast, your pastor knows. Do you come to church on a regular basis to hear sound teaching? That's the prayer that you're going to a sound church. You better be going to a sound church. But hopefully if you are, you're around people who can take you through the process of discipleship. Discipleship cannot happen virtually. It doesn't work like that. Mentorship, maybe even then. Fanship.

[Renee]

Yeah. I think also friendship. Because even with mentorship, there needs to be proximity. Proximity and presence.

[Courtney]

There we go.

[Renee]

How many folks have said, oh, this person is my mentor? Does the person know they're an inspiration? They're an inspiration. They're an inspiration. This person inspires me.

[Courtney]

That's fine.

[Renee]

Let's use that more. This person inspires me.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee]

Because tutus that you go to this person's house and be like, oh, yeah, so, so and so said that you mentor.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

I've never known.

[Courtney]

I've never met this person. I've never met.

[Renee]

I may have seen them drop a fire emoji here.

[Courtney]

They are not my spouse.

[Renee]

I don't know who they are.

[Courtney]

Absolutely. And that, like, don't get it twisted. Local church or church community is messy. I think one of the biggest things the devil is doing is trying to convince believers they don't need a local church.

[Renee]

Absolutely.

[Courtney]

Christ is coming back for his church. Not just for you, for his church. Another way we express our relationship with God is with our service to his church. Not. No, it's. I'm being so serious. You want to be prophet. So and so your local church ain't seen you in six months, but you're out here doing the work of the Lord. What about the. What about the flock that he's given you? But you don't want to be at your local church, because maybe at your local church, you don't get to be the one on the pulpit. So that's why you don't want to be there. But that's what helps makes mature believers. Despite the fact that I'm gifted, I can sit in the pews and listen to sound teaching and be submitted to leadership. Despite the fact I can sing. I don't need to be the worship leader at my church. Despite the fact I'm a great teacher, I don't need to be the one on the pulpit every Sunday because it's not about ego and it's not about performance. It's about me maturing. So maybe out there, I get to be Courtney. Daniela, right? People come to you for advice. In my church, though, I'm a local congregate. Do you know what that means? Somebody's calling me to say, I don't care that your career is popping off and you're getting flown to South Africa by Spotify. How is your soul? There's Somebody who just sees me as a disciple, not a celebrity. But a lot of people see themselves as celebrities, so they stop themselves from being disciples. Be a disciple. And it's not just saying just be another member. Because then it shows that you believe God only cares about you because of your gift. Forgetting that God saved you before he gave you that gift. He wanted you and he gave you that gift knowing that you might use this gift all over the world. And I may never see you again. So it's not about the gift. It's about I want you the person. And local church allows you to just be the person. And we also need to talk about local church who celebritize their members because the person is there in need of discipleship. So I know this person has 100,000 followers, Pastor. But don't use them for their platform. Disciple their soul. So there's so many multi layered conversations we need to have in it. But the enemy is trying to destroy the reputation of the local church. I don't care that this really famous apologist was a terrible person. Your local pastor might not be. Go and submit to them. Your local pastor has been married for 35 years. But you're out here talking about men of God can never be faithful. The man down your road is Courtney.

[Renee]

Ma'am.

[Courtney]

But you want a celebrity for a pastor.

[Renee]

Ma'am.

[Courtney]

Ma'am. I'm Jason. Ma'am.

[Renee]

Ma'am. Ma'am.

[Courtney]

It makes me sad because it's what allows us to go wrong. I'm sorry.

[Renee]

No, no, no.

[Courtney]

You fail to apologize.

[Renee]

You came in sage green and yet nothing was sage. This was a holy rage, baby.

[Courtney]

I hate you so much.

[Renee]

Courtney.

[Courtney]

Anyway, I'm done shouting now.

[Renee]

Courtney.

[Courtney]

It makes me sad.

[Renee]

If you would like to donate to.

[Courtney]

No, stop it. Stop it. Donate to the Bright Future Academy. The link is in the description.

[Renee]

And she needs to do that because she's been discipled. You're not serious. I enjoyed that. I think you hit on multiple points there. I think you hit on multiple points. What do you think?

[Courtney]

Please.

[Renee]

I don't have a mere original thought after that. I really think you came with the scene. This was Thor's hammer. This was Thor's hammer. You are. I love that.

[Courtney]

I love that. No, truly.

[Renee]

That was funny.

[Courtney]

Courtney.

[Renee]

No, no, no. Just say. No, no, no. Can I just say there are very few moments in my life that I have been left speechless. This might just be one of my number ones in recent memory.

[Courtney]

Okay. And you know what it is? I'm not saying this because I Despise that people are being added to the number. I absolutely love it. But Christianity isn't about numbers. It's not about how many people are in our faith. It's about the quality of the walk. It's about the maturity of those people. If you. I was reading Ephesians 4 this morning. It was just talking, and I wasn't even reading it because of this episode, but it was just talking about how, like, you know, he gave gifts. Yeah. Prophets, apostles, pastors, teachers, evangelists. These are gifts. But why are they gifts? For the maturing of the saints, for the work of ministry. Right. So like the people who are given to you as your pastor, the prophet, you're following whatever they're given to you to mature you. And maturity is really important. Spiritual maturity is really important. Like, we were studying first a chapter in First Corinthians yesterday. And when you're reading Paul, talk about, like, I can't even talk to you as spiritual people because you're so carnal.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

You're so. The carnality. And the thing is, you can be in your flesh and it still look like Christianity.

[Renee]

Oh, boy.

[Courtney]

You need to still. We need to still inspect that. Like, okay. The reason why you're making all these YouTube videos about Christ is flesh. It can be flesh. It can be flesh.

[Renee]

And what's actually really interesting about that, too, is it's very easy to take that as your time of intimacy with God. When you create content for the Lord, you start to think, the only time that I can access God and his favor and have a relationship with God is when I have something to show the world.

[Courtney]

And I've been there. It's draining.

[Renee]

It's hot. And you know what? People don't want to be that honest. People don't want to be that honest. And when I think about the example of Jesus, whenever the crowds flock, he would withdraw.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

He would withdraw.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And I love what you said about the numbers, because we get so obsessed with numbers, thinking that we are doing a work for the Lord, not realizing that we are bringing so many broken people with no discipline, so many broken people to. It's basically bringing people to the gate, but giving them no means through which to pass through.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So they can see what's possible on the other side of it. But they weren't able. They will never be able to access it because we. That's not even something that we've experienced ourselves. And I'm so tired of. And I've experienced it, too, where there's this pressure to Look a certain way or be a certain way without actually experiencing it in real life. It's perfectly possible to be spiritually empty and dead and yet pose as if you have life.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee]

There are so many of us. So many of us. It may not even be in spiritual things. It can be so many areas of our life where it's very easy. And I think that's the issue of social media. It's easy to pose as if you have light and yet dead inside. And it makes me think of that scripture that says, for no marvel, you have Satan and his agents that are disguised as angels of light. I'm not trying to be like Satan.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee]

And yet many of us are starting to be like him, imposing as ministers of light, and yet there is nothing but darkness within.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee]

And I actually wanted to talk little bit about that part of Christianity, Right. The. The Pinterest ification of Christianity. Pinterest Chef Kiss. I love it because I can already imagine, you know, the Christian girlies, or even just girlies in general, being like, you know, I like me a vision board. I like having a. A beauty or an aestheticized, romanticized relationship with the Creator. That's how I express myself. You know, I like to have the mood boards where I These pictures and all this kind of stuff. I love creating the rules where I can show my day in the life of a Christian girlie. What's so wrong with that?

[Courtney]

On your vision board, is there a picture of a cross? That's it.

[Renee]

There may be a cross, but it's pink.

[Courtney]

Are you ready to pick it up? I don't care what color it is. Are you ready to carry it? That's it. There is nothing wrong with all of these things. Nothing wrong. I love me a cute moment. I love me a new toad Bible.

[Renee]

Yeah, yeah, me too.

[Courtney]

I love that. I love my lovely highlighter. I like me a nice. Oh, I'm in church. I'm in my cute outfit. I love it. Give me all the modesty content. Don't kill me. Give me my 5am morning routine with Jesus. I don't think you understand. I love it. Live for it.

[Renee]

Chef Kiss.

[Courtney]

But it doesn't negate the fact there are parts of our Christian journey which are ugly, which can never be aesthetically. Try and make the crucifixion look aesthetic. You can't. And yet that's what we are called to. If you want to be my disciple, pick up your cross, carry it. Follow me. Right? Literally, we see Christianity is a religion. It's something that Janelle was saying earlier, Christianity is a religion you have to be willing to die for. Yeah, how do you make that look cute? What is cute about your family disowning you because now you have decided to follow Jesus but your family used to is a different religion. What is cute about the nation you live in? Killing Christians. But a lot of us live in a world where that's not our reality.

[Renee]

Exactly.

[Courtney]

That's in our society. That's not a reality. But then we have foregone the seriousness of the gospel. There is risk of persecution. Your friends could turn away from you. When I became saved, it was some people told me you are way too Christian. I had to call out some people's hypocrisy and sin. Not just in my family, not just in my unsaved friend, but in some of my saved friends cuz I was saved. Saved.

[Renee]

You know how you can be saved? But on the way, some people on.

[Courtney]

The way, they're just leaning on the narrow path.

[Renee]

The edge.

[Courtney]

On the edge of the narrow path. And so in your attempt to pull them back in, they can now think you're way too aggressive, you're doing too much and they want to fall off. Sometimes you gotta say bye.

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[Courtney]

That'S not cute. And so my question to you is as much as you want to have a cute relationship with God, when he asks you to do the ugly things, will you do it?

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Because we can have that same cosmetic approach to Our genuine sacrifice, Paul said, I beseech you, therefore, brethren, present yourself as a living sacrifice as is your reasonable service. When God asks you to do your reasonable service, it's not even just a bare minimum thing. It's when you understand what you have attained in Christ, you'll realize that the least you can do. You'll realize that it's actually quite reasonable for me to exchange my whole life as a living sacrifice. Sacrifice. That's actually very reasonable. In exchange for what I have received. That's quite reasonable. That's actually quite reasonable. When God asks you to do something reasonable, I. E. Something worthy of the life he's laid down for you, will you now approach. That's a bit too messy for me. Me being estranged from my family. Too messy. Me ruffling my friend's feathers. Too messy. Me being persecuted on social media. Too messy. But you're going to go home and look at your cute vision board knowing that God is not happy.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

It doesn't matter. You can take your vision board to hell. You don't want to go there. So do the messy part. That's what I would say. So you can't just leave it at that part. Yeah, you have to do the messy. You have to do the hard parts about church, the hard parts about marriage, the hard part about friendship. Like, the reason why we go on about doing the awkward parts of friendship is because it's a refinement.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

It's a sanctification. It's deep. If you, a person I've been called to walk with and love and who the Lord has given me to steward as a sister, annoy me, and I just walk away because it's messy or it doesn't fit into my cute aesthetic image of what friendship is. I failed my assignment.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And so I can go out there and I can get a hundred thousand followers, but one day the Lord is going to hold me to account of the things he assigned to me. And one of them on that list is going to say, Renee Kapuku. I can't then divert his attention to be like, but 100k, have a look at. Look how cute it was on the vision board. And we achieved it. But Renee was an assignment that was a side quest. So you can't. Oh, no, you can't. It doesn't work like that. You can't distract Jesus. You can't deceive him.

[Renee]

Oh, no, ma'am.

[Courtney]

He knows what you've been called to and deceives him. He knows what you've been called to. In this season. Have you done it? So I'm just saying, as you make your cute stuff and you buy your things from Amazon, I think you also need to remind yourself, is Jesus even happy with your hyper consumption, your over consumption? Is he actually happy? Oh Lord, or should you have taken that money and given it to the poor?

[Renee]

I feel like right now I'm being used folks listening in and like hearing the word.

[Courtney]

It's hard. I'm not going to lie to you.

[Renee]

Tell me the truth.

[Courtney]

Sorry. You are so funny.

[Renee]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Courtney]

Because. And I'm not saying it like I'm perfect or holier than that, but these are things that we, we talk about all the time.

[Renee]

All the time. Yeah.

[Courtney]

We are being challenged on all the time. I want new clothes. But for some reason there's a conviction around my spending. Yes, I want to order some dominoes. I want to order some deliveroo. But for some reason there's a conviction.

[Renee]

There's a conviction.

[Courtney]

There's a conviction. Are you going to heed to the conviction? Because these things, it's only an intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit and with God that will point to you whether the Lord is happy with you. And if we're not careful, we can make our marker of success for Christianity external validation and forget about God being pleased with us individually. Right. It's like when, you know, I think it's in Matthew where Jesus is saying, when you fast, when you pray, don't let people know you're fasting. Go into your secret place when you pray. Because you don't want to be like the hypocrite.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

A lot of Christians, if we're not careful, we will fall into hypocrisy because we live one way on social media because our income is tied to it.

[Renee]

It.

[Courtney]

And that's how you know you have an idol. You are now serving mammon. You're not serving Jesus. You're doing this for the paycheck.

[Renee]

Oh. Oh.

[Courtney]

You can't be a Christian for pay.

[Renee]

Not Christians for hire.

[Courtney]

You can't be a Christian for pay when you won't pay the ultimate price. You're a Christian to get paid, not to pay the price.

[Renee]

Oh, Courtney. Like, honestly, when I say God bless you, God bless you, God bless you for your obedience. It's okay. It's not.

[Courtney]

I might disappear from the Internet for.

[Renee]

A while after this. We gotta go incognito. But I love that because again, touch.

[Courtney]

Grass, touch grass, touch grass.

[Renee]

Go outside. It's important. There are so many things that you said There, that resonated so strongly. I know this is not exactly like part of the episode etc, but one thing that we've actually been speaking about, I think it is related, is the issue of greed. Yeah, the issue of greed. There are too many of us that won't confront that our idol is greed. And I love that you said that. There are so many of us when we are like content creators, etc, we are creating this vision of what we want our life to be. And not only are we greedy, but we're also encouraging greed in other people. Right. And we've spoken at length in private about this whole prosperity gospel. Even when you are able to point to the hundred thousand of people you know that follow you, but do they follow Jesus? Do they follow Jesus or are they just following the paycheck? Are they following the money? Are they following what is promised to them if they, you know, follow you into this relationship with Jesus? Like when I think of all of the Pinterest boards, as you were saying, all of these things are nice and cute, but are you following your convictions? They're really, really deep. And they hurt. They're supposed to hurt. Like this Christian walk is one of suffering. It's hard.

[Courtney]

And glory.

[Renee]

And glory. I think we don't talk about the.

[Courtney]

Suffering that produces the glory.

[Renee]

Exactly. The sacrifice. This is a life of sacrifice. You have to lay these things down. So if the Lord asked you to lay down social media for a year.

[Courtney]

I'm not gonna do it.

[Renee]

Will you do it?

[Courtney]

Are you gone?

[Renee]

In fact, some of us, we're still on social media. We should have fasted from that a very long time ago. Oh dear Lord, we should have a very, very long time ago. For somebody that's a reminder for someone or even thinking about like, I love what you were saying around like clothes and the things that we have, like getting to the granular details of having God as your Lord.

[Courtney]

Yes.

[Renee]

Have you actually consulted the Lord as to whether you should be following this person, whether you should be investing in this item of clothing, whether you should be purchasing chiffin, you know, whatever food item it is. Do you go to that level of granular detail of lordship in person as you do online?

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Because so many of us can break do all of these intricate breakdowns of the reels and the tick tocks and the videos, but in terms of the granular breakdown as to the instructions that God has given you.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Can you even say what they are? Do you actually have a relationship? And it's another thing that we were talking about insofar as is your relationship with God. A relationship with God? Like do you have a direct relationship with God or is it secondhand, second hand revelation?

[Courtney]

Ready for that?

[Renee]

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? This is why even when we talk about things like friendship, we encourage you to go outside and touch grass. Have real relationships. It's only when you have real relationships with men that you realize not all men are trash. It's only when you have real relationships with your friends that you realize not all women are out to get you. It's only when you start to have real relationships with people that care about you and love you that you realize that not everybody in this world hates you. It's only when you have real relationships with people in your life that have actually done good, progressive things, that have actually, you know, made money and given to the poor in real life that you realize, oh, actually it is my duty to give to the poor, take care of people, feed God's sheep. It's only when you do these things in real life that you realize that you have a real agenda, that you have a real conviction and you have a real relationship with Jesus. There are so many of us that lack real relationships. Real in person, not online. How depressed, Listen, how depressed are some of us? We close our laptops at night and they're the first thing that we open when we sit. We go to sleep at night, God knows o'clock and then wake up and the first thing we do is what's on social media? What have I posted on social media? I've done my prayer at 4am the whole world must know. I must start my life on 4am to pray for the nations. But your family, have you prayed for them?

[Courtney]

Oh dear.

[Renee]

So. Oh, I need to go and evangelize. Oh, God has called me to the Bahamas. Ah, but omo, London you haven't finished with. Not even London, your village, you haven't finished with. We need to save the hundreds of thousands. Nonsense. But your friend is still in sin. Real life, it is easy, very easy to call up. It is easy when you don't have proximity.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And there's no risk of persecution.

[Renee]

Exactly. But it becomes more real when you do have proximity. That is why when you are a disciple, it requires closeness.

[Courtney]

That's good.

[Renee]

It requires closeness.

[Courtney]

That's good.

[Renee]

Jesus was not disciple to people that, you know, lived in Alaska. There was no. Do you know what I mean? People heard about him, but his disciples were the 12 that followed him. They followed him to where he was going when he was praying. Sometimes they lacked. They fell asleep. They fell asleep sometimes. Some of their behavior. Peter, I'm still side eyeing you. Some of the things you did. Oh, more. You're a bit aggressive. A lot of us have that Peter. Spirit in us, but it's only through proximity that the Lord could correct us.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee]

It's only through proximity that the Lord could say, actually, I do love you, Peter. It's only through proximity that the Lord could now say, okay, Peter. Upon this rock I shall build. Yeah, y'all are off building. The Lord did not proclaim you the rock just yet. Just yet.

[Courtney]

And some of you are building on a rock that isn't Jesus. That's a problem.

[Renee]

And the thing is, we know that if it's not Jesus, then it's the other guy.

[Courtney]

They don't want to talk about that either.

[Renee]

They don't want to talk about that. But what we will now talk about.

[Courtney]

I wanted to touch on what you were saying about greed.

[Renee]

Go ahead.

[Courtney]

But I think it's something that's been brought up a lot in me. Oh, the Lord.

[Renee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Courtney]

I remember, like, even at the beginning of the year, I was talking to you, I was like, renee, I'm really convicted about the fact I have not hit my weight loss goal. Not because I want to be slim and sexy.

[Renee]

Yeah. Even though that's a part of it.

[Courtney]

But because I feel like it damages my witness to not have the self control. It's not about the similarness, but to not have the self control that the spirit says is available to me through him.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And it became a deep wound of, like, God, I'm now understanding that the food on my plate and. Or how much of it I eat or my. My patterns.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And my habits are all a symbol of how much I worship you and how well I worship you.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And it's sad to confront the fact that in this area of worship, I have an idol and I'm worshiping something else.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I think it's. It's. It's that real. Like I said, this, this episode isn't for us to be like, hey, we're the perfect Christian. It's literally, this is how I feel like the Lord is dealing with me. And sometimes, I won't lie, it does make me upset to look at other people and think, why aren't you dealing with them? Why are they not. Why are they not moved by this level of debauchery that they're displaying, like, literally. And I know some people be like, oh, it's all personal conviction. I don't think so. I think some. With some things, the Lord is very clear in his word about the standard he calls us to. And so when you come to. Maybe it's. They haven't come to the realization. But then my question is, are you really even seeking for it or are you. There's. There's that. I think it's in second Timothy, that scripture that talks about they will seek out preachers, you know, that satisfy their lust, basically itchy ears. They'll seek out preaching that. That satisfies itchy ears. And it's like, is it because of that? Like, are we just looking for preaching that affirms what we already live by?

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Or are we willing to actually crack open a Bible and be challenged and like, oh, okay, so sorry. Okay, so I. I don't honor my parents. I don't love my brother. I don't do. I don't do everything within my power to maintain unity in the spirit. I don't do everything to lead, live peaceably with all men. I don't. I do covet. I do lust. I like. I. Wow, this is actually wrong. Like, it's actually wrong.

[Renee]

It's bad.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? Like, a lot of people, even when I was talking about pornography, a lot of people, like, but it's not a sin. It's like, but I read the Word that says, even look lustfully at a woman and you've committed adultery. It's like, have you read the Word? Or are you going based on personal conviction, which is actually code for a personal doctrine. Doctrine. There is a doctrine of the Word. There is truth. I know what you feel like is in your heart, but who made your heart the. The heart that the same Bible says is desperately wicked? Desperately wicked? Who made your heart the gospel? Who made your heart Jesus? Who made your heart the author and the finisher of faith? You. And that's why we've got to be careful with this whole little God's preaching. And you are God all onto yourself. And, you know, it's all about your higher self and your. That is called New Ageism. And it's not the same religion that you follow.

[Renee]

It's not.

[Courtney]

Do we want to be honest with ourselves? There are differences and distinctions in doctrines. It's not one universal religion.

[Renee]

I. I think it's actually beautiful that you've actually touched on that, that point, because I wanted to actually talk about the difference between Christianity and cultural Christianity. I think especially in a time where Christianity has almost felt like there's been a Resurgence of Christianity. But there has been a mix of Christianity with conservatism.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

As in big P politics. If you're conservative, you're Christian. And I think we're seeing multiple movements across the globe that are coinciding with this. Oh, wow. Everybody is. This is a move of God. And this is not denying that it's a move of God. But I think it's not a coincidence that these movements are happening, these resurgences are happening. And there is different brands of Christianity that are starting to gain popularity. So talk to me about some of the key differences between cultural Christianity and true Christianity.

[Courtney]

1. Repentance. Yeah, repentance is a huge one. Like, yeah, for a lot of people. For a lot of cultural Christians. Yeah, it's about, I'm Christian by tradition. So, like, I'm Christian because my family was Christian. I grew up in the church. But have you confessed that you were a sinner, accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord as savior, not just through the profession of your lips, but through the lifestyle that you live? Have you actually accepted Jesus? And in that, do you actually know what Jesus said? Or like you said, Is it all secondhand knowledge? Because a lot of especially big C conservative Christians, it's, God hates this. God hates you. Okay. God hates sin. God loves people.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Right. So it's reading his word to be able to distinguish the fact that God made everybody. Yes, God loves everybody, but he may hate the choices that they've made. He may hate the lifestyle that they live. He may hate the sin that they are in, but he doesn't hate them. He wants to redeem them from that. Right. That's very different.

[Renee]

Very different.

[Courtney]

Very different. And a lot of what people say God hates, they make it sound as though God hates you. There's no redemption for you. There is no change for you. That's not true. That's actually the antithesis of the gospel. And so it's. Do you have an understanding of what the gospel actually is? And also that you can't be born into this faith. You have to be reborn into this faith. Like, you're not. You don't receive Christianity by inheritance or by genetics. It's like in the Bible, it talks about the Jews versus the Gentiles. And Paul has to go through chapters and chapters, except explaining to the Jews and the Gentiles, just because they weren't born Jews, just because they don't come from the line of Abraham doesn't mean they can't receive the promise through Christ. Because actually the promise that Abraham had was in Christ. Right. And so it's the same thing for us. Now, just because you were born into a Pentecostal church doesn't mean that you're a Christian. And just because somebody was born into a family that literally worshiped Satan doesn't mean they can't turn around and receive Christ. Yeah, but a lot of people tell you because of your tattoos, can't be a Christian because you had an abortion when you were 17, can't be a Christian because these things are marked on you forever. That's a lie from the pit of hell, literally. That's a big lie. And so we have to also remember, again, we as Christians do not stand as gatekeepers to Christianity.

[Renee]

Correct.

[Courtney]

Only Jesus does. And he receives who he receives. And so all our job is, is to give the gospel. And to those who receive it, they receive it. And to those who reject it, dust off your feet and move on.

[Renee]

Come on now.

[Courtney]

It's that simple. And so I think also what we see a lot with politics is an understanding that Christianity is good for society. Yeah, Christianity is actually really good for society. Christian values, especially the way Christianity talks about how we should structure the family and how the family should be really respected, affected and protected. It causes societies to thrive. When you look at economically, socially, criminally, everythingly, the family really causes it to thrive. And a lot of political parties are latching onto that fact. Yeah. But what they don't realize is you can take all the values from Christianity all you want. Doesn't mean Christ likes your nation. It doesn't mean God is happy with every choice that you made. He's probably big, bad, big mad, and he will send destruction your way. So what? Repent. Repent and truly change. It's not. And truly turn sorry and actually receive him as Lord. And when you receive him as Lord, you'll actually change. You can't say that God hates abortion, but then treat every immigrant as an illegal alien that needs to be killed and fought off. That what Whose heart is what? What whose heart is that? Fighting for a fetus and hating your brother because the color of their skin or what nation they come from. Now, I'm not against policies around protecting a nation and obviously, like migration patterns and all of these things, I'm not against that. But actual racism, actual racism, that's hatred. And that's a matter of the heart, too. The same way murder of a fetus is of a baby, is of a life is. And so the only reason you'll know that, though, is because you're not just trying to Tickle the ears of voters. You're trying to please the heart of the Lord. Yes, but that's not your posture when you haven't repented and received Jesus Christ for yourself.

[Renee]

Jeez.

[Courtney]

So, yeah, that's my thoughts on political Christianity. But how about you?

[Renee]

I love that. I literally love everything that you said. It's. It's the wanting, a form of godliness.

[Courtney]

But without denying its power.

[Renee]

Denying its power. It's. It's really having an empty form of the full version of the full glory. And I think it reeks of what many of us are guilty of, of wanting the benefits without the sacrifice. Because implementing true Christianity, again, requires a sacrifice. You have to let go of something. And unfortunately, we're in a time where, especially in politics, it's all about gain, gain, gain. It's all about exploitation, it's all about self. So in many respects, Christianity has actually been used as a tool or a form of Christianity, I should rather say has been used as a tool to continue to exploit people. Not realizing that the Christianity in its fullest form, accepting Jesus requires radical transformation. And I don't think we have seen enough radical transformation of not even necessarily like, things and structures, but people.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Because people precede policy, people precede structures, people proceed. Everything that we see in the world created by people. Capitalism wasn't created by the Lord. People created that.

[Courtney]

The way we see it. Manifest.

[Renee]

The way we see it.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah. Things like ownership and stuff, for sure.

[Renee]

Fundamental basics. But the way that it's been manifest. Yes, that's people.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Exploitation.

[Renee]

Some of this, some of the suffering that we see, that was not created by the Lord, that was created by people.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And created specifically by people that don't have a full understanding of Christ. A full understanding or relationship with Christ especially. There's just too many things people don't read. Again, people don't read and people don't interpret. And people don't have accountability as well. But when it comes to politics in particular, when you have the intention to exploit, that in of itself becomes the framework through which you interpret the Scriptures.

[Courtney]

And you act. Yeah.

[Renee]

That's how you act. Why you act like that?

[Courtney]

That's how you act.

[Renee]

Because that is the reason. So it's up to us as believers when we are deciding to be Christians, when we are, are, you know, working out our salvation when we are reading the Scriptures. I think there's something that we have to do before that, before the interpretation comes, the heart posture. You really need to say, holy Spirit, help me to understand this in the way that you would have it.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Right. Because too many of us are going in with our fleshly eyes and that fleshly framework, looking to the Bible and looking to. That's if we turn to the Bible more time we're looking at YouTube videos and sermons and all that kind of stuff and traditions that have been passed down from forever. Somebody once said that traditions are like peer pressure from dead people.

[Courtney]

I thought that was so funny.

[Renee]

It's quite very true.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

We are looking to these things with the wrong heart posture.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

You will only see what your heart desires. And if your heart is wicked, you will only see wicked things. So I do think that in politics, in culture. Right. Because the culture right now is desperately wicked. The brand, the doctrine, the Christ that we receive is also wicked.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Because I just, I love the example that you used of the immigrants. Why do you hate people like this? It's too much.

[Courtney]

Question.

[Renee]

It's too much. Or why do you hate people in general? Point blank, period.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

When literally the first, like the most important commandments, love God, love his people. You're literally violated and you're literally violating some of the fundamental tenets of your professed faith. That to me.

[Courtney]

But the thing is though, a lot of people, it's not actually their professed faith. They've never professed it. They'll throw a scripture here and there, but they've actually never professed. Are you sure it's crazy? I ain't seen you say it's actually crazy.

[Renee]

Yes, it's mind numbingly. Yeah, no, it's mind numbingly crazy.

[Courtney]

It's really tough.

[Renee]

And I think it's understanding that, you know, the culture, especially the culture of the world is ruled by the world. So even this whole idea of like, oh, cultural Christianity, you should know that there's a juxtaposition there. There's a tension there. You should be able to be a Christian, full stop.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

There is no hyphen. There is no before or after. It is. I am a Christian. I profess that I believe in Jesus. And I think I don't want to get too, like, into identity politics, etc, but I think we have grown too used to politicized Christianity. We've grown too used to hyphenated Christianity. We've grown too used to a Christianity that is self serving at its core, when at its core Christianity is literally about death to self.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And it started with the death of Jesus.

[Courtney]

There we go.

[Renee]

Christianity is literally about death to live. It's not about remaining alive and holding on to Dead things. It's actually about dying first so that you can gain eternal life.

[Courtney]

Come on.

[Renee]

So cultural Christianity, real Christianity, drop the words before, drop the prefixes, drop the suffixes, Go with Christianity, point blank, period, full stop, full sentence. That's the identity. That's it. There's no, there's no extra. There was never any extra. It's, oh, I'm a follower of Jesus. That's it.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

There was a reason why Jesus said to his disciples, leave everything.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Leave everything.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And too many of us are trying to follow Jesus. Holding on to everything. We're holding on.

[Courtney]

That's so good.

[Renee]

We're holding on to them fishes.

[Courtney]

Yeah. That we caught the nets.

[Renee]

We're holding on to these relationships. We're holding on to these, these ways of thinking, thinking that the way that we think, thinking about these frameworks, thinking that these exploitative ideologies and doctrines we can hold fast with Christianity. No, no, no, baby, you gotta let go of that. Renewing of the mind, transformation. Repent. There's a reason, ah, John was out here. Repent for the kingdom of God. Repent. Turn around. Change. And too many of us think that we can be Christians without changing. You have to change.

[Courtney]

That's it.

[Renee]

You have to change. God will meet you where you're at best believe. God will meet you. Wherever you're at, God will meet you. But he ain't gonna leave you there.

[Courtney]

He'll take you where you need to be.

[Renee]

Yeah. And you better do it quickly.

[Courtney]

There we go.

[Renee]

You better do it quickly.

[Courtney]

There we go. And I think even on the back of that as well, I want to give, just like, especially for, for Christians with a platform, Christian influences, creators, whatever you love it for you guys, spread.

[Renee]

The gospel, keep it up.

[Courtney]

But I think what is important is one, remembering that teachers will be judged harshly.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Twice as harshly as everybody else. And that platform you have may not be a church pulpit on an altar, but it is an altar of some kind, of the digital kind. And you are going to be judged for being a teacher and taking up that position and authority. And so really make sure that as you say, like, God told me this, or God told me to tell you this. God doesn't let any word fall to the wayside. One day he will hold you to account for what you said. That should fill you with a certain level of fear, like holy fear, that I don't want to say something unless I know this is congruent with the Word and this is a God thing. But if you get it wrong, there is Redemption. I think of Apollos, Apollos in Acts. Amazing, prolific speaker. People like, he even speaks better than Paul. Amazing going around sharing the Gospel. And I think it was Priscilla and Aquila who had to pull him aside and be like, you're so good at preaching, but when it comes to the area of baptism, your doctrine is wrong. And then Paul encounters some of the people who had been saved under Apolosis teaching, and he asked them, but have you been filled with the Holy Spirit? Have you been baptized, baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit? And they're like, we were baptized according to John's baptism. And he says, oh, then it says that he told them the gospel, told them about the Holy Spirit, and then they were baptized again properly. And the reason why I bring up this story is I love that there were more mature saints who were able to pull, pull Apollos aside and say, hey, you're great, but you're getting this wrong. Let's just sharpen up this area a bit, you know, to make sure that you're teaching the right thing. But then later on in the chapter, it goes to tell us that there was also a effect that bad teaching had on the people who had listened to him and studied under him, which was they had a part of the Gospel, but they weren't filled with the Holy Spirit. They didn't have that empowerment for themselves. They had a bit, but not the full promise. And they had to be guided by the Holy Spirit to a teacher who could give them that right. The people who have sat under your bad teaching, there's going to be some infection in there, and you now need to pray that they find someone who can take that out of them. Right. Which is why repentance publicly is also really important. It's not enough to be like, oh, I made a YouTube video in 2016, and in it I said this because at the time I believed it, but now I don't believe it. It's fine. I'll leave the video up. It's fine. I don't need to come online and be like, oh, that thing that I preached, it's wrong, guys. No, you have to come back and be like, guys, in one of my videos, I said this. I've now come to understand that that was wrong. And I just want to say it so that you can also take that out of your theology. You know, take that out of your understanding. It's important because that's, that's what it means to be a responsible steward, a responsible teacher. When you've given false information, you Let people know their information was false. You don't just, just fly under the radar, you know, And I think a lot of us need to do that. It's okay if in a season because of just your lack of knowledge, you got something wrong, but do the good job of correcting it. Allowing yourself to be exposed to people who challenge you and expose you to better teaching. But also pray earnestly for the people who watch your content. Yeah, like genuinely, I think there's a desire to be so seen and like I just want people to watch. But is that for your own gratification or do you actually consider the fact that the people who are watching you are sheep? They are souls. They are people who are influenced by you. And so pray for them, really pray for them. Make sure that you're also directing them to good leadership. You cannot be their be all and end all when it comes to their Christian journey. You also need to point them to not just come to your church, go to a church and give them the tools to be able to discern what a good church is. Good doctrine, standing on the Word, preaches the gospel, actually has structures for their discipleship, has safeguarding policies in place, and actually adheres to correcting people who are in sin. Are you actually giving people the tools to discern a good church or are you just throwing a little thing into the sheep's pen and they're running away? That's not how you shepherd cheap. You've got to lead them.

[Renee]

Yeah, so yeah, that's what I'd say. Wow. Normally I would ask for offering, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave that one. I'll leave it alone.

[Courtney]

Maturity, maturity.

[Renee]

Saints. You know, sometimes you've got, sometimes you've gotta. We'll leave the link below.

[Courtney]

You're not serious at all? Not one bit.

[Renee]

But no, I completely agree with everything that you said. And honestly, now more than ever before is a great time to know Jesus. I believe so now more than ever before is the best thing to ever have. It's a good time to have faith and to believe that you are one of those sheep and that you are loved and that even for those. I guess to encourage the people whose walks have not been pretty and they have been feeling, you know, insecure or having low self esteem. I think knowing that, that you're fighting the good fight of him, that the weapons they be forming but they won't prosper, or knowing that the suffering and the sacrifice is doing a good work in you.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee]

To produce something that is far more precious. Than anything that this world has to offer. So be encouraged that you're on the right track and that you're actually on the narrow path.

[Courtney]

That's it.

[Renee]

Because the path is narrow.

[Courtney]

The path is narrow. Ciao.

[Renee]

But anyway, sisters, we must at some point come to the end of the episode.

[Courtney]

Episodes.

[Renee]

Courtney.

[Courtney]

Yeah, friend?

[Renee]

Exceptionally well.

[Courtney]

You too. You too, you too. No, no, no.

[Renee]

But honestly, I think the Lord really was speaking to you, and that's why I was excited. No, no, no.

[Courtney]

I told.

[Renee]

Cuz, guys, I told Courtney about this before this episode. I said I'm excited for this episode because I know, I knew that the Lord had been speaking to you specifically.

[Courtney]

He stays focused on this day.

[Renee]

And I think especially as somebody who's actually even, at least by the time that we're recording this, because coming out of a time where you have laid down the social media or like the visibility for a while and actually prioritize living this out in real life, it is so refreshing and beautiful to see how much God is continuing to refine you and how much that authenticity and that genuineness is really coming across. Because I think I told you, you've been my. My favorite YouTube content creator forever. But literally the same thing that I said then is the same thing that I'll say now. The authenticity of the journey, because people don't see it. People always see the end products. People always see the cute stuff. Thank you for being brave enough to share the ugly stuff too, and long may it continue.

[Courtney]

Amen.

[Renee]

I received that well, sisters, drop a comment below. Whether you enjoyed it or not, if you felt peppered. Good.

[Courtney]

That's great.

[Renee]

That's great. Drop a comment. If that ginger. No, in fact, if it gingers you, please drop a comment.

[Courtney]

Please drop a comment. We're ready.

[Renee]

We're ready. Oh, yeah, we're ready.

[Courtney]

We ready.

[Renee]

If you're dropping hate, though, remember, no weapons formed against us shall prosper.

[Courtney]

Hallelujah.

[Renee]

But if you want to stay up to date with everything TMS related, guys, follow us on social media. What are you doing? If you don't. To my sisterhood on literally platforms. You can find us everywhere, guys. Like, there's nowhere you can run. You can't run away from us. We're there. Every single platform, aside from any inappropriate platforms. We're not there yet. And we won't be there anyways.

[Courtney]

This always is a dire spud.

[Renee]

It is. It always is. Anywho, if you'd like to keep up with our own personal journeys, please come and follow this potent vessel of the holy Spirit.

[Courtney]

That's what she texted me the other day, guys, after the live stream. She said, good morning, spirit. I'll block you one day, please.

[Renee]

And I'm a pop up. I'm a pop up at your door. Since you like that in person. I'm part of her local community. So please follow D. Barting and come follow me at Renee Kafuku.

[Courtney]

We absolutely love to see it. And make sure you sign up to our mailing list on our website to my sisters dot com. We will send you love letters, sweetie, to get you through your week. And also, so why not check out the sisterhood? Check out this community that we're building of women. Whether you're a woman of faith or not. We want it to just be a safe space where you can drop a need that you have, any questions you may have, and where, like Renee mentioned, we actually get to talk live and direct with you guys. So, yeah, join it on our website, twomysisters.com as well. It's the Sisterhood. Just click that button that says join us at the top and it will lead you right, right to it. We hope that you've enjoyed this episode. We pray for you dearly that the Lord who is starting a good work in you will truly complete it.

[Renee]

Amen.

[Courtney]

We love you dearly and as always.

[Renee]

Keep glowing and growing.

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