← To My Sisters
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- [00:00]
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- [00:32]
Courtney
Friendship breakout. When to fight for them, when to let them go.
- [00:38]
Renee
Wow.
- [00:38]
Courtney
Wave goodbye, end it all.
- [00:42]
Renee
This person has, like, cheated with my man or something like that.
- [00:44]
Courtney
That's a deep foundation.
- [00:46]
Renee
Like, I can forgive you.
- [00:47]
Verizon Advertiser
Yeah.
- [00:47]
Courtney
Oh, that hurt. If you get me to unpack what I went through with this person, it's gonna feel like I'm going through the affliction all over again.
- [00:56]
Renee
This is not just a friend for the summer. This is a friend called the winter, the autumn, the spring. And sometimes it requires you taking that leap of faith.
- [01:04]
Courtney
Do I just let it go or do I fight for it? A lot of us also don't want to let go when God is saying, cut it off. Yeah, right. Like it's. It's the end. This person. No, no.
- [01:17]
Renee
Full stop.
- [01:18]
Courtney
Ending end.
- [01:24]
Renee
Hello and welcome to the To My Sisters podcast. I'm Renee.
- [01:27]
Courtney
And I'm Courtney. And we are your online sisters and hosts of the To My Sisters podcast.
- [01:31]
Renee
Now we are all about promoting the wellness, growth and development of a community of sisters across the world.
- [01:37]
Courtney
And in today's episode, we are going to be talking about friendship breakers. When to fight for them, when to let them go.
- [01:46]
Renee
Wow. Wave goodbye, end it all.
- [01:51]
Courtney
Sometimes it can be tough, knowing basically, sometimes it can be tough. You get into a sticky situation with a friend and you think, is this worth going through, fighting through, or it's just. Just let's call it quits. And so today we're going to dive into it. The types of friendship.
- [02:08]
Renee
Yes, let's go.
- [02:09]
Courtney
How we can work through the friendship.
- [02:13]
Renee
The little thing you got going on.
- [02:14]
Courtney
Over there, and then also healing and heartbreak.
- [02:19]
Renee
Oh, this is heartbreaking.
- [02:20]
Courtney
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.
- [02:23]
Renee
So first of all, Ms. Renee, walk.
- [02:26]
Courtney
Us through some of friendship breakups that happen because they don't all look the same, actually.
- [02:31]
Renee
Absolutely.
- [02:31]
Courtney
And I think we can assume sometimes it's just big blow up friendship.
- [02:34]
Renee
That's it.
- [02:35]
Courtney
You know, sometimes there are. There are different variations of a friendship breakup.
- [02:38]
Renee
Let's Just wrap it up.
- [02:39]
Courtney
So walk us through some of your thoughts.
- [02:40]
Renee
You know what this also reminds me of? The song that was in my head was, you know, by. Is it Cheryl Cole? We gotta fight, yeah Fight for this love for this love yeah. Stream up me as an artist, guys. Anyway, the different types, Sorry I gave the up. I promised that I gave it up in 2025, and it's still returning the different types of friendship breakups. So I love that you started with this because as you said, it's so easy to think that there's going to be like this mad fight or whatever and then we're not friends anymore, when in 90% of the cases of friendship breakups, it's nothing like that, right? So the first one that comes to mind for me is the gradual breakup, right? Like a lot of people experience as, you know, they're getting older or they're going through different life seasons that things are just not clicking the way they used to. People become different people. Life happens to them. It becomes harder to have the same relationship that you may have had in secondary school, in university. As young adults. As adults, things just become really, really hard. Values change, people start having different experiences, and all of a sudden there's a gradual departure of friendship. I was speaking to one of our dear friends, actually, none other than Mrs. Adjoa Ramsey, absolute Titanic lady. Oh, she's an absolute, like, chef kiss. And we're begging her to come on the podcast soon, so God willing. But she was talking about how in relationships, it's not even necessarily an issue of the big bust ups, but it's the fact that we miss turnings, right? Like when your friend is going, like, basically, imagine sitting on a moped with somebody, right? It's integral when you're doing moped driving or motorcycle biking with somebody to turn at the same time so that you guys can stay on the same road. You don't fall over, all of that kind of good stuff. And I think in friendships, the gradual shifts and the gradual decline happen because we miss those turnings. And then all of a sudden we find ourselves on very different paths. It kind of also reminds me of a compass, right? Like, if you're even one degree off going north in a direction, you will find yourself at the end of wherever it is you actually are going to. And yet the distance is so far. And I think when we miss the turnings that people are experiencing in their lives, we gradually grow apart until there's so much distance between us, it feels like it's insurmountable.
- [05:00]
Courtney
Yeah, that's so good.
- [05:01]
Renee
So that's one type of like friendship breakup that we end up having. Another type of friendship breakup is the classic fisticuffs. It's a big breakup over a very specific issue that is again, insurmountable. It may be something that's really touched us. It may be something around, you know, boys, partners or that kind of stuff. Or it may be that boundaries have been crossed in some particular way. Usually is that it may be we have a massive disagreement on something that's really important to both of us. And the thing about the kind of big bust up is it leaves people feeling resentful and bitter. It is. It's been a really long time since I've had that kind of disagreement with someone. But the feeling and the intensity of the emotions can be so negative and really, really draining and just really hard to deal with. Especially when it is somebody that you love. Sometimes there may be some kind of betrayal that has happened, which makes it really, really hard, really, really tough. Especially when it feels like everything has been going well up until that point. So it's. You've had a really great relationship and then all of a sudden something has happened, something has been uncovered, something between you two has blown up and the friendship is now in tatters. And yeah, that one is really, really tough. Really tough to deal with. So those are like two that come to mind for me. I don't know if there's any that come to mind for you.
- [06:24]
Courtney
I think a big one for me is seasonal friendships. Like when a friendship has just run its course and has come to an end because the season of life is changing. I of situational friendships. Like we're in school together or we're at uni together or maybe we're roommates for this season or we live together or whatever. Life has made our paths cross and now. Or maybe work in the same place.
- [06:48]
Renee
That's a good example.
- [06:50]
Courtney
And now we don't anymore. Like, I'm moving on to something else. We're going to different schools. We're moving from secondary school to uni. Everyone's, you know, spreading across the country. Or we're going from high school to college. We're not going to be in the same place, place that we've been for the last five, seven years anymore. And so maybe our friendship season has just come to an end. And I think it's okay sometimes to embrace that. Okay, we're friends in this season and now we're not anymore. Yeah. Or I knew this person. Like I think some of my really good secondary school friends. And it was like, I love that you are part of that chapter of my life. And our friendship didn't end in a bad way. It was just, you went to another college, you now got a new group of friends. And yeah, we just want. But if we see each other, it's still love. Memories, it's love, it's. We're laughing, we're reminiscing, but we're not as close as we used to be. And I think that's actually okay. Yeah. So, yeah, I think seasonal friendships is a big, big one on that. Yeah. But then talking about the different kinds of friendship breakups, right. There are some friendships where you start to think, okay, maybe like you said, there's been a confrontation or maybe there has been this drifting that's been happening, or maybe the season of our friendship has ended. And it begs a question which is, do I just let it go or do I fight for it? Do I fight to close that gap? Do I fight to make sure you transition into this season with me as well? Do I fight to make sure that conflict is resolved or do I just allow the drift to happen? Do I just allow this chapter to end? Or do we just blow up?
- [08:25]
Renee
Yeah, we just blow up.
- [08:25]
Courtney
You know, we burn a bridge. How do you really discern, Am I fighting for this or am I just letting it go?
- [08:32]
Renee
Yeah, no, that's a really great question. And upon reflection, I think really knowing, first of all, you actually need to take stock of your friendship and know exactly where am I at with the different types of people in my life? Because oftentimes we hold on to things that we are supposed to let go of because we don't realize what we actually already have. We may have like other friends or other relationships that are also worth pouring into, but we haven't actually given an opportunity. And the opposite can also be true in that we don't realize that we're supposed to fight for this relationship because we don't really honor the place that this friendship has in our lives as well and what it holds. Right. So I think actually taking stock and understanding what are these friendships that I currently have doing in my life? How has this person operated in my life and how have I operated in their life? I think for kind of like seasonal friendships, for example, or workplace, work based, etc, has this largely been a relationship of convenience? Has this largely been a relationship that's very much tied to the environment that I'm in? Is it now that, you know, I think of a caterpillar within a cocoon. And I think of all the nutrients and all of the kind of things that were appropriate for that caterpillar's stage in its life. The caterpillar, once it turns into a butterfly, doesn't drag the cocoon with it. So I think it's also understanding, okay, cool, maybe these kind of situational relationships or friendships are exactly that they were for me in my caterpillar season, where I'm able to draw from the nutrients, where I'm able to become the butterfly. But now that I have, you know, become the butterfly, I no longer can stay in that environment. But also this relationship, it doesn't serve me and it doesn't serve that person. Yeah. So especially with kind of like the situational relationships, it's often a lot easier to tell, especially when you're moving with the times and the seasons. I think where it gets tricky is when you have friendships that hold more weight in your life. Right. Especially the sister friendships, the, the friends that are really sticking to you close, the friends that have seen you through really tough times in your life, the friends that have really been valuable in your journey of, you know, continuous improvement, becoming a better person, becoming a better friend, a better sister. Again, what has this relationship produced in me? And is there still things that can be produced from this relationship? Right. So really discerning, okay, what place have I held in this person's life? And has the damage that's been done to the friendship irreparable? Because there are some damages that have been done that gets done to relationships all the time. It's the wear and tear kind of things that happen to us on the day to day. But then there are some damages that are not cosmetic. There are some that are actually structural which require an actual rebuilding of this relationship. So it's down to us to assess. Okay, cool. I've assessed that this friendship means a lot to me. I care about this person. I know this person cares for me. We're going through a tough time right now. There is an element of faith that is required for friendships to actually thrive. So putting your faith in the fact that, okay, cool. I'm going to hold on to this friendship and I'm going to put my faith in that, the fact that I believe that this friendship will actually ring out more things for me. But also I'm putting faith in the fact that this person also wants to journey with me. And because of the track record and because I know that this is something thing that, yes, it has damaged our relationship, but it's a Cosmetic damage. I'm willing to put this aside and actually work to do that rebuilding in order to continue to relate, to continue this relationship. If it's a structural damage, I think it is understanding that, okay, cool. This might take me a little bit more time to fix, but I realize that there's still integrity in our friendship. So whilst it is a structural damage, yes, it's going to take more time, but I still have faith that this relationship is going to tide me over to the end. And I know that there's more that needs to be brought out of this friendship and this relationship. I think where it gets even more tricky is when the foundation has been shaken in your friendships. That's when you have to, I think, really make the call as to, do I hold on to this person, Do I hold onto this relationship in this form, or do I let it go? And I think it also comes down to what are the values that you have between you two as well? Right. So if it is that you have a value around, like, betrayal, or you have really core, fundamental values that have been violated, I think me, I'm a fighter. I really believe in fighting, especially because I'm really intentional about my friendships. I really do believe that when I have made an intentional friend or an intentional sister, there's an importance in endurance and actually fighting for that friendship. I think sometimes when the foundation is shaken, it begs the question of, can I forgive this person and then move on? Or is there a consequence that has come out of this foundation shaking that may mean that our friendship has actually changed forever? And that's in, like, the deep betrayal. So for I'm thinking of, like, you know, this person has, like, I don't know, cheated with my man or something like that. That's a deep foundational shaking. It's like, I can forgive you, but I don't know if we can be sisters to the same degree that we were, because that's a foundational shaking, and there has been damage that has been done. That means that our relationship can no longer be same, pretty much for a very long time, if not forever. And then I think there's also an assessment that needs to be done on the other person as well. Is the other person also willing to fight for this relationship? Because oftentimes we hold on to these things, not realizing that the other person has already let go. So I'm now holding onto this relationship tightly, not realizing that the reason why there's no weight is because the other person is not supporting the other side.
- [14:13]
Courtney
That's it.
- [14:14]
Renee
So I think there needs to be an assessment as to whether the person that you are doing this relationship with also wants a continued relationship. Relationships cannot work without the other person. And I think sometimes we have to be really honest with ourselves, especially in our friendships, as to whether we believe and whether we've seen the other person put effort into maintaining the relationship.
- [14:37]
Courtney
That's it.
- [14:38]
Renee
So, yeah, that's some of my thoughts, but I would love to hear some.
- [14:41]
Courtney
I completely agree. I think you've hit the nail on the head and I think you've hit on why I think this conversation is so important. It's about discerning, is there a future for this thing? Right. And allowing yourself to see past any present pain, to have, like you said, hope and faith for a better future with the friend that you have. I think a lot of times when we are going through awkwardness or pain and genuine conflict in a friendship, it can be so easy to forget that this friend is actually really valuable to you. Whilst they may be showing quite terrible character traits right now, or they may be showing bad behavior, it doesn't mean that they're not the person who they used to be when they did all the great things in your relationship as well. And it's easy to take a bad moment and determine that this is a bad person and it's. No, it's a bad moment. And sometimes we can hold onto these bad moments for so long that we forget about the person behind the moment. It reminds me of Jesus when he has to rebuke Peter. And like, there's a difference between a Peter and a Judas, though. You know, Peter's repent. Peter's realized their weakness. Peter's realized, ah, okay, I'm not as great as I used to as I thought I was. Or maybe I'm mistaken about how I perceive this situation. They can acknowledge their wrongdoing, whereas Judas's. They don't believe they're doing anything wrong, or even if they do, they're fine with it. And it's about really identifying what's the heart posture of this person. Because I know that actions can often indicate where the heart is at. But sometimes there is a disconnect, and sometimes there is, I did this action, but even me, myself realized this goes against my heart posture towards my friend or this person that I love. So it's really an issue of discernment. Like, can I actually see this person's heart? Can I understand where, even though what they did offended me, can I actually see where they were maybe coming from? Yeah, with this situation as well. And I think that brings us to another dimension of conflict resolution, which is trying to find understanding. And I think for a lot of people, sometimes closure is very hard to pursue, or an explanation is hard to pursue. And in our anger, which is valid, or in our disappointment or in our heartbreak, we cannot want to give the person an opportunity to explain themselves. But I think explaining yourself is actually really important. And sometimes that doesn't happen immediately. Sometimes it's, I need some time to cool off, actually, because when you did this thing, I mean, it peppered me deep. I can't talk to you right now on this issue. But it doesn't mean that conversation won't ever come. It just means it can't happen now. And so allowing yourself to have that time, but allowing the time to come where it's like, okay, let's sit down. And I think you have to. If you're on the receiving end of a friend telling, you've hurt me, give them that time. Give them the time to take a few steps back. It's like in a marriage, I can imagine, okay, you've done something to really offend me or really endanger the sanctity of this marriage. We gotta separate for some time, go and stay somewhere else. Have you watched the film Obsessed? Yeah, with Beyonce and Idris Elba. It's like when she had. When there was even a little whiff of him cheating at the work party, she was like, you better go find somewhere else to say because you were dishonest as well about what had happened. So it was like, there's multiple layers to the betrayal. And so give me some space to really take apart layer by layer, and really think as well. And I think sometimes you need to allow your friend or you need to allow your partner that processing time. I think everyone processes things, especially grief or disappointment and heartbreak, very, very differently. And I think if you are the offending party, you need to give that person the space and the time they need to actually process. You can't force healing to happen. It happens over time. And so taking that step to be like, okay, I need time away. I'll give you your time away. So I think it's. It's a matter of discernment. It's a matter of searching out your heart. And I love what you emphasized because it was what I was thinking. You both have to be willing to do the work. And it's not just the work of, okay, we both want to, you know, make up. We both want to reconcile. No, it's the work that goes into the reconciliation. It's the continual reassurance, is the continual. Okay, I know we said we were over this, but something else has just come to my mind, so let's just talk. And it's not necessarily that I want to nitpick, but genuinely, I want this chapter to be closed. But there are some unanswered questions or some unresolved pains that I have. Can you be patient with me while we actually hash this out? And I think for a lot of people, they are used to wanting a relationship to work, but the other person doesn't care or the other person doesn't want to wade through that problem in that depth. And I. I love the analogy you gave of this structure with. You know, it's cosmetic, it's structural, it's foundational. A lot of people don't want to do the foundational work.
- [19:33]
Renee
Yeah.
- [19:33]
Courtney
A lot of people don't want to go down to the depths of it and unpack. Maybe years of backbiting or years of backhanded compliments or years of just me unpacking that. No, actually, at the foundations of our friendship is a crack. Because sometimes it's a structural issue that makes you realize there's a foundational issue. Sometimes it's a cosmetic issue that makes you realize, no, there's a foundational issue. It's like, when you're looking for a new home, they always tell you, look at the walls, because a crack in a wall means there's something wrong with the foundation of the house, actually. And sometimes we see cracks in our friendship. We're like, just give it a lick of paint. Just give it a lick of paint. It's like, no, no, what you have is a foundational issue. And so are you working with somebody who's willing to say, okay, there's a crack in the wall. We can't fix this with a little bit of plaster. We need to strip everything and go to the foundations of this friendship. How did this friendship begin? What is this friendship built on? What are the values? What are the, you know, codes of conduct? What are the deep, deep wounds and offenses that maybe we didn't address when we should have as well? But if you're not willing to do. If that the other person is not willing to do that work, and you're doing that alone, the whole house is at risk of collapsing, and you're. You're gonna feel your. You're gonna feel like you're alone in doing that work. And sometimes that can be more heartbreaking than the initial offense that Whoa. We have a relationship, and you don't think this relationship is worth saving as much as I'm fighting for it? That's crazy. I thought I was worth more to you than that. And I think sometimes it's that process. It's seeing how your friend deals with your friendship being at threat that really tells you where you stand with them, if that makes sense. That can be hard to receive. Really, really hard to receive. So I think it's doing the work with somebody who wants to restore the relationship to the same thing, or if not better than it was before. And that requires somebody being committed that the same vision of the friendship is you. I think a lot of us don't have visions for our friendship.
- [21:36]
Renee
Yeah.
- [21:37]
Courtney
We don't set purposes for our friendship. We don't know why God has brought us together as friends. And so we actually don't know what we are restoring this relationship to. We think that restoration is this. Your friend thinks that restoration is that. No, we need to have the same vision as to, okay, where. What does restoration for us look like? It's like, you know, your friend being like. For example, at Christmas time, we had a conversation where I was like, okay, I felt like this. I felt some way about this situation in our friendship. And now restoration to me looks like us no longer covering up. When we feel some type of way because of maturity, it looks like us actually being more vulnerable about our displeasures or our discomforts. Right. And I have to then agree with that, or you have to then agree with that so that we can be like, okay, that's what the next phase of our friendship actually looks like. It looks like whenever I feel some. Some way, I can bring it up or wherever. Whenever you feel some way, we can bring it up. And we don't cover these things anymore. But in my eyes, restoration could have been, oh, we continue how we were before. We're just restoring it to how it was before the pain point. Do you go, I mean, no. Restoration sometimes looks like a remodeling. It sometimes looks like a complete renovation. Cosmetically, this friendship will no longer look the same. Structurally, this house will no longer look the same. This friendship will no longer be the same. And that's okay. It could be a better version of what it was before, though. And so it's not holding on to. It's not trying to restore or fight for the same friendship that broke. It's making something that's stronger and better. And that person needs to be willing to do that work with you, period. They need to be Willing to do that work with you? Absolutely. And I think talking on that matter of discernment as well, I think especially when it comes to seasonal friendships and situational friendships, a lot of people struggle to know whether somebody can or should cross over from one season of their life into the next. And so what would you say to the ability to discern whether this person is a cross seasonal.
- [23:42]
Renee
Across seasonal?
- [23:42]
Courtney
You know, are they a recurring character coming out?
- [23:47]
Renee
Right.
- [23:47]
Courtney
Are they just, you know, an extra or they're just, you know, to that season.
- [23:52]
Renee
To that season. That's okay. I think it is using the season that you have with them as a yardstick, not to say that you're testing people, testing friendships like that. It's like constantly having people jump through hoops. But I think understanding, okay, cool. In this season or situational relationship or friendships, what is the clues or what are the signs that you are giving me that this goes above and beyond an environmental friend? Right. There are, for example, work colleagues that you have perfectly fine to go to the pub with them at 6pm to get whatever drink it is, whatever beverage that you like. There are even some work folks that you're like, I'm not going anywhere with you because I know that as much as we are cordial, we are not friendly, but really watching out for the signs. And oftentimes the communication will be explicit from the other person and the communication between you two will be quite explicit as to whether the relationship that you have transcends your environment. So beyond the 6pm drinks at the pub, is this someone that you speak to on the weekends? Is this somebody that you find yourself, you know, updating on various parts of your life? Are you finding that this person has actually become part of the fabric of your life as well? There are some folks that, for example, I've met in a work project that they have now transcended and actually become a friend of mine that is cross seasonal because they've also put in the effort. It's. It goes above and beyond the just saying hey, at work, to the, oh, are you free on Saturday and want to go for brunch? It goes above and beyond the oh, I want to work with you on this project to, hey, do you want to come around to mine and we can like watch movies together? Or it goes above and beyond the hey, let's work together on this cool project on the, oh, what's your vision for like your career moving forward? Are there things that I can do to support you? There are some really cool people that I have met that have continued to support me and vice versa from like work situations that are the most inconspicuous situations ever. So I think really analyzing the degree of investment, yeah, I think analyzing the degree of effort that people are really putting in to get to know you and seeing how far and how willing and how comfortable you feel, transcending some of those seasonal boundaries or situational boundaries as much as possible. And I think building is really important. I think again, continuing with the analogy of like cosmetic foundation or etc, building a structure with that person, building a relationship with that person and seeing if they buy. I think there's something quite vulnerable about being at the start of a relationship where you have to almost like, I'm not saying like withhold your transparency and all that kind of stuff, but there's an element of like building trust that needs to transcend that situation. And sometimes it looks like going out on a limb and being very intentional with spending time with the person, getting to know the person outside of the situation and seeing how receptive they are to that. Oftentimes we'll have to find ourselves in. We'll be the ones that have to make the first move and vice versa. There'll be situations where people make the first move as well. So I think it is watching out for all of those signs. If you've identified someone that you really, really like and vibe with. Much like a romantic relationship. It's like you see somebody that you see when you go to church, you have to make the intention to, ah, I want to see you outside of church. Not in a creepy way, in a very wholesome and godly way. We are going for lunch and brunch, maybe with our chaperones, wink, wink. But you need to see how much you can vibe with that person outside of that situation and be committed to actually building a relationship that doesn't rely on the convenience of a situation to still stand tall. Yeah, it reminds me of some of again, some house. Seems like house is the analogy. I love it. But when you think of some new builds or we think of some like buildings that in certain circumstances they stand, in certain weather they stand conditions. I love my American sisters, but some of your houses are made out of plastic and I don't like that. It's literally a safeguarding risk. But anyways, we think about some of these houses that are really built to withstand certain circumstances, certain weathers, it's sunny outside, it's dry outside, it is all good. But there are certain houses. The moment that it starts to rain, you hear the pitter Patter of rain, the roof starts to leak, or, you know, there's a storm. All of a sudden there's flooding. So I think it really is about you. You recognize the fact that you have a house, this relationship built with this person to stand this particular condition. It's about now fortifying the house so that it can stand in other conditions and realizing that, okay, cool, I want to build a cross seasonal friendship or relationship. That means I need to build a relationship with that person that is built to withstand those different seasons. So it does mean bringing them into these different seasons with you. And sometimes you try and build with someone and it doesn't work. I think that's okay. Like, I think sometimes that also, like, we have such strict boundaries sometimes, especially when it comes to, like, work friends or, like, seasonal friends. I'm just here to work. I'm here to get my degree and go and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's actually okay to make friends in some of these environments as well. In fact, I would deeply encourage it. Or, like, oh, I just go to church and then I leave. Ah, we're commanded to fellowship, please. Fellowship with some people. You know those people that you go to church, as soon as the bell rings or the prayer is done, they're out of there. Or my personal pet peeve is the people that turn to your neighbor. They'll pretend they have not seen you. You've seen me. Stop it. Stop acting like you're deep in prayer, or stop acting like, you know, we could be friends here. Go out on a limb. Yeah. So oftentimes it does require a little bit of a, you know, first instance of vulnerability, first instance of transparency, first instance of bravery to really step outside of that situation or that season, to build outside. And if, you know, the person doesn't receive it, don't let that harden your heart. Because there's so many people that have been burnt by those kind of situations where they think, oh, wow, I've built a friendship with somebody, but they've come and burnt me at first. Ah, my goodness. That's the root of things like church hurt. That's at the root of things like work hurt. When you've assessed a potential relationship or friendship and somebody has violated some of the values that you have or you've tried to build with them cross seasonally, and it seems like they want to stay in that season, that's okay. But don't allow that to harden your heart, because there are some friends and some people that are currently in your season that I really feel like God is saying, no, this is not just a friend for the summer. This is a friend for the winter, the autumn, the spring. And sometimes it requires you taking that leap of faith to build with somebody cross seasonally.
- [30:28]
Courtney
Yeah, that's good.
- [30:29]
Renee
So, yeah, that's what I would say.
- [30:30]
Courtney
I agree with that. I completely agree with that. I think another core part of it as well as prayer, like actually really praying. I know we're used to that trend of like people. I prayed God remove anyone from my life every time. And God does. I think God really does help prune the people around us depending on the season that we're in or the season that we're moving into. I think the issue sometimes is.
- [30:56]
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- [31:25]
Dad
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- [31:39]
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- [31:59]
Courtney
One. Why does he remove them? And sometimes it's not because they're badmined. Sometimes it's just they're not walking in the same direction as you in this season. And that's okay. Sometimes it's the craziest of people he allows to remain. And it's like, what, what do these.
- [32:12]
Renee
People have to do with this bunch of my life?
- [32:15]
Courtney
Because I think there's, there's, there's a particular way human wisdom would tell us to mold our friendships. I think of the example of when people get married, the advice they tend to get is surround yourself with married friends. Your friend, your single friends are not in the same season as. So maybe the closeness of your relationship won't be, you know, as close. But actually, sometimes when you actually pray God, surround Me with the right people for this marriage season, for example, surround me for. With the right people for this study season, whatever it may be. God surrounds you with people who may not be walking through the same thing as you, but who can really support you as you go through this journey. And it's good to receive the people who the Lord sends. I think for a lot of us, us, it's easy to want to navigate your friendships through your own human mind and through your own, like I said, wisdom. And, okay, this is what I think is good. But sometimes the Lord is sending you an angel.
- [33:09]
Renee
Yeah.
- [33:09]
Courtney
In the form of a very unexpected vessel. Right. And so I think it's important to allow yourself to be open to God pruning, but also God adding. Right. And God bringing people into your life. But are you open to receive it? I think some of us aren't. We aren't. We aren't. But I guess talking in the vein of friendships, friendship, breakups, more specifically, a lot of us also don't want to let go when God is saying, cut it off. Yeah, right. Like it's. It's the end this person. No, no, full stop, end it. And actually being okay with that and not fighting for it, sometimes you just have to let it go because the Lord said so. It's like the past episode, we were talking about friendship red flags. And it's like, if this person is an enemy to your progress, literally, and the Lord says, you can't walk in the council of this person. You can't walk close with this person. Sometimes our own self is like, but I don't want to break it up. I'm actually having a good time. This person is good or this person has been good to me in a past season, doesn't mean they're going to be good to you in the future. And I think it's trusting that the Lord knows what's ahead of you. He knows what you're stepping into. He knows what you're going to go through. And he also knows who that person is going to be when that happens to you. And they may not be the person you'll need at that time. And so it's trusting in his knowledge and really staying keyed up. The key, the key to discernment is your proximity to God. Because when you're trying to discern whether to do life with someone, that's when every spirit wants to come and talk to you and make you suspicious or make you, you know, defensive. It's like when you were talking about hurt, like church hurt, work Hurt, friendship, hurt. Things in our lives can make us really hurt. And we can carry that hurt. And it can be what dictates how we maneuver every relationship. But actually don't allow your past experiences or your emotions sometimes to guide you. Allow the Lord to guide you. And sometimes he'll take you on unexpected turns and to unexpected people. But it's about being close enough to him to hear those instructions and not the instructions that are coming from your fear, coming from your pain, coming from your past. And so when it comes to discernment, stay prayed up, Stay prayed up, Stay prayed up. And I wanted us to talk about then the healing process. Right. So maybe you have gotten to a point where you're like, nah, me and this person, it can't run. We can't walk into the next season. We have to wrap it up. We have to end this friendship. How does one first deal with a friendship heartbreak? And then how do they actually heal over a friendship heartbreak? Because I think it's very hard sometimes to even admit to ourselves that we're heartbroken about a friendship breakup. Like, use that actual language, that this thing hurts me deeply. Like, deeply hurt me. It's hard to admit that to ourselves and to other people. But then now it's actually, once you've recognized it, how do you deal with that pain?
- [36:07]
Renee
Yeah. I'm so glad that you used that language, actually, first of all, because I think there's power in recognizing that something has actually happened to you and recognizing that it hurt. I think the key to healing is actually addressing the fact that it's a wound.
- [36:20]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [36:20]
Renee
When you think of a physical wound that you have the delicacy, ah, this thing is bleeding. You have to apply pressure to stop it from bleeding. There's a certain level of delicacy in applying a plaster, depending on how deep it was. If it is particularly deep, then you have to get stitches. Like, there's a whole process that you have to undertake in order to heal that wound. And I think the same framework, the same attitude needs to be applied to a friendship breaker. These things are deep. This is my friend, my sister that I loved and I love. It's not even just like a past tense thing. I loved her. This is a present tense thing of, we are not together anymore, but I love you deeply and for all intents and purposes, it's likely that we won't be able to be friends in the same way that we were before. That really hurts, and that's hurt me deeply. And it's okay to admit that. I think we often, like, make it funny as well. That's one of our responses. Coping mechanisms, one of my favorite, to be fair. I'm still working on that one. But, hey, what is jokes without a little bit of trauma, but really admitting to the seriousness of how you've been hurt, first and foremost, however you want to do that, even if it is just saying, wow, wow, I was really hurt by this. There's so much power in confessing that I was hurt by this because it's once you it again. It reminds me of House, the television series, which is absolutely excellent. And oftentimes the treatment is based on the diagnosis, but doctors are not able to treat you or heal you without you confessing accurately. This is what I'm dealing with, or this is the issue that I'm facing. And oftentimes when you do try and cover up anything, or if you do try and, like, lie to your doctors or whatnot, then they're not going to be able to heal you totally, or they're not going to be able to give you the adequate things that you need to heal. And I think that sometimes even reflects our relationship with God and healing. There is a necessity in confessing what you're dealing with to be able to receive the adequate care that you require, whether it be from God or whether it be from the things that you do or the things that you have around you that you're able to invest in. So, yeah, first of all, confessing I'm hurt, that really hurt me. I'm really upset. I. I love my friends, but, like, now I don't have this friend to hang out with anymore, or she betrayed me, or even I was the perpetrator and I betrayed her. And that really hurt, that part hurt. That contention with the fact that maybe I'm also not as great as I thought I was in this relationship. And there may be some internal work that we sometimes as women have to do in confessing our part to play in the breakdown of a relationship. So first comes with, you know, confession, and then comes the delicacy of the healing process, the stitching up, the cleaning up as well. Oftentimes, like, we have to clean a wound before we start to cover it up and stitch it up, right? So that purification that. That cleaning process, getting everything out. So what are the emotions that you're feeling? If you're feeling angry, listen, if you need to go to a rage room, go to a rage room. I support it. Listen, however you need to process. But getting everything out that will cause you to act out or Change your behavior or your character. One of the biggest, like, emotions that can come out of this is bitterness.
- [39:35]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [39:36]
Renee
Bitterness and resentment. Resentment. One of my favorite words. Throwing it back all the way to gcs. What was it? A level. History. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Long story short, the.
- [39:48]
Courtney
We told this story a million times. By the way. Like, I'm sure the girls know, for.
- [39:53]
Renee
The new sisters, there might be new sisters. Courtney. And they don't want those stories. How resentment became part of our vocabulary. I'll keep it brief, but basically, obviously, the jump from GCSE to A level. We don't know what it's called now we're old. It might be O levels.
- [40:09]
Courtney
It's the same thing.
- [40:10]
Renee
Oh, is it?
- [40:11]
Courtney
Okay, whatever it's called at this point.
- [40:13]
Renee
In time, anyways, the jump from GCSE to A level. Yeah, we're in his. We're all taking history class. And we're all very intelligent people. We're very used to getting, like, really great grades. Gcc. And there is only one girl in particular. Let's call her Annie. Absolutely phenomenal student as well. So we do our first draft of our history coursework. All of us are expecting that. Wow. We bossed it. We aced it. We're going to get our A's. A stars, commonly the highest score amongst our class, aside from Annie, was probably a D. It was probably a D. So you can imagine just the confusion, the upset, the alarm from A star. Students, all of us are getting. I even saw you there. Yeah.
- [40:54]
Courtney
It was crazy.
- [40:54]
Renee
Crazy. It's outrageous. And Annie was the only person to get, like, an A. Like, she bossed that coursework. I said, wow. And God bless our history teacher. Obviously, we are upset. And she had said something along the lines of, I don't know why you guys are so resentful of Annie. And that was quite hilarious because ever since then, we have not forgotten the word resentful.
- [41:15]
Courtney
No, no. It was very triggering.
- [41:16]
Renee
It was so triggering. Because obviously we're going to be angry. It's got nothing to do. To do with Annie, mind you. It's the fact that we were expecting something and the outcome, we did not get that. So that aside. Yeah, resentment is a very, very strong emotion. And it's probably one of the most dangerous emotions if left unchecked.
- [41:36]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [41:36]
Renee
And I think that when we are dealing with friendship breakups or breakdowns in relationships, we must take care to not allow resentment to build up, because that's what causes us to act out and become mean and bitter. And I think it is important, again, to, okay, confess that there's a little bit of resentment that may be building and allow yourself to be cleaned out, whether it be through prayer, whether it be through the meditation, whether it be through, you know, spending time with people that actually bring you back and actually remind you that life is worth living and you enjoy it, but not allowing negative emotions to fester and keep that wound dirty because you won't be able to experience a full and complete healing.
- [42:16]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [42:17]
Renee
So making sure that wound is clean. And then you can begin the stitching on top. Then you can begin the covering up and the healing process where you're able to now, like cell regeneration, all of that kind of good stuff kicks in, biology kicks in. And I think it's also believing that you can be healed.
- [42:34]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [42:35]
Renee
I think sometimes what stops us from receiving and experiencing healing is believing that we can't move on from this, that this is something that we're going to have to carry with our us in this particular way forever. And listen, sisters, I'm here to remind you, this too will pass. It may feel like this now, but think about so many things that you've experienced in the past that didn't kill you. So many heartbreaks, so many people that have disappointed you, so many times that you've disappointed yourself. That too passed.
- [43:03]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [43:03]
Renee
And this too will pass. So even if you've had your heart broken or you've even done the heartbreaking, this too will pass. If you have done all of the steps correctly, if you've confessed, if you've cleaned the wound, if you have taken some time to really, like, unlearn and change and transform, this too will pass. And you will. You. You do not deserve to be held hostage by the past.
- [43:24]
Courtney
That's it.
- [43:25]
Renee
You don't deserve to be held hostage. Like, break free from the chains, break free from the bondage. It's actually okay. And make sure that you invest again. I know we talk about it all the time, but community, sometimes we get so in our own heads. I can attest to the that boy, I can live in my head. I can overthink the thoughts, yo. Sometimes it's necessary for you to get out of your head, whether it be investing in people that you're able to say, yo, I'm really feeling down about this situation right now. Can you speak words of life into me? Or actually looking to the book of life to give you words to be able to counter those thoughts and knowing where those thoughts are coming from. Because this journey is a long journey. The healing process is a long journey. And sometimes there is regression. But don't think that just because there's regression, you can't make progression. You will eventually be able to be fully restored. So I think it really is that understanding this is a journey. It starts with these particular steps. It requires some delicacy and you do actually have the power and authority to overcome this. And lastly, you deserve healthy relationships. I think sometimes there's a lie that we can tell ourselves because we've experienced something so negative in relationships that we now don't deserve healthy ones. We now start to self sabotage. We now start to bring up borders against other people. Boundaries that don't necessarily have to be there, but they've come as a result of fear and heartbreak. These are all lies. You are actually capable, genuinely, you're actually capable of sustaining and having healthy relationships. Yes, it will require work and yes, you've been burned before, but that doesn't negate the fact that you deserve better.
- [45:00]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [45:00]
Renee
So I think having that hope, hope, keeping the hope alive at the end of the process that yes, you've been hurt before, but that doesn't mean that you won't enjoy it.
- [45:09]
Courtney
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [45:11]
Renee
So that's my thoughts.
- [45:12]
Courtney
That's good. Literally every step in it, you are on point with it. I think the point about community though is a big one for me because I think we love to heal on our own. We like to self soothe, we love to stitch ourselves up. That rarely happens. Like I love, love me a good house. I love any medical show really. And it's because a lot of life does reflect the way this body heals. Right. And so for a lot of us, if we experienced a deep, deep wound, very few of us would have the aptitude and also the, the pain tolerance to actually stitch ourselves up. Because sometimes the healing is also painful, right? It's confronting, like you said, the toxic, toxic parts is when someone pours some alcohol or some kind of thing to cleanse that thing. It's like, oh, that hurts. If you get me to unpack what I went through with this person, it's gonna feel like I'm going through the affliction all over again. And so sometimes I need to do that with a therapist. I need to do that in an environment of safety with some, to some degree, a professional or someone who's done this before, been through this before, seen this, this before, and has a success rate with it. Right. So it's a therapist, it's a counselor, it's somebody in my church or an elder, it's a mentor, it's someone who has an approach to this that really will restore me and allowing them to walk me through the hard parts, walk me through the difficult parts of healing this wound, because I cannot bring myself to do it on my own. If it is just down to me, I'll put a plaster on it and say, fine, even if it gets more painful. And I think a lot of us can even relate to this with physical ailments. Even if I get a bit more uncomfortable in my symptoms, I feel like it won't compare to the discomfort that will come with me going for surgery or going to get, you know, some kind of resolution to this. So I'm just going to keep letting it be uncomfortable. And it's like, actually what you're doing is probably you're prolonging your discomfort when actually you could just face, yes, maybe something that'll be a bit more painful but will stop. Yeah, like, it will actually come to an end. I think that's what we need to remember, especially in a society that, like, really does glamorize this healing process. Healing sometimes isn't this unending thing. It's actually a periodic thing.
- [47:34]
Renee
Yeah, it's.
- [47:35]
Courtney
It's something that I do to deal with this issue. And there is a this time where, you know, between 12 to 18 months, I should be healed, and if I'm not, I should pay attention to what's going on. Maybe that's a bigger problem at the bottom of this pain. Maybe there's something internal now, you know? And so I think for a lot of people, the hesitation is, I don't want to do this healing on my own because the healing feels more painful than the wound. But actually, the healing, as much as it may be more painful than the wound, will heal the wound and be over soon. The healing does come to an end. At some point. There is a place where you turn around and you say, I am healed. I'm not just healing. I am healed. It's happened, it's done. So I definitely think it's leaning on that. And I think the last thing that I wanted to touch on is it's like when you do have a surgery and then you have to go through physiotherapy, There will be a time where you've been broken by a friend before, but now a new friend enters your life, and it is the. The test to see whether you will trust that healing process and whether you will train that muscle again. A lot of us heal, but then we don't exercise the muscle after the healing. You have to exercise the walking. You need to exercise the hand movement. You need to allow there to be proof that you have been healed. It's like when Peter said to the guy at the gate called useful, pick up your mat and walk. Like, it's not just, ah, you weren't. You were broken, but now you're healed. Stay there. No, pick up your mat and walk. Do something that you could not do before. If you thought when this friendship breakup happened, I could never trust another woman again. Try and trust another woman, and let's really see if you've healed right. Let's really see if you've attained the breakthrough that you want. Don't just stay at the gate. Walk through it. Like, actually walk through it. And for a lot of us, we get heartbroken at the gate of friendship, and we never try to walk through it again. But that's. Even if you can walk, what's the point of having the ability to walk if you never walk? It's the same as being a lame person. It's the same if we all just decide to lie on this mat. Doesn't matter if I have the ability to walk. This is where we are.
- [49:43]
Renee
That's where we're gonna stay.
- [49:44]
Courtney
We're one in the same. Me and all the girls that are heartbroken, we're one of the same.
- [49:47]
Renee
We're gonna stay here, too.
- [49:49]
Courtney
But if I want to be the one who says, I am healed, I had shame, have to pick up my mat and walk. I have to try and do the thing which I've been afraid of doing or I've been so out of touch with. You know, a lot of people are used to not having female friends in their life, but I implore you, I challenge you. Try. Just try. Like, I know you've been hurt before by a woman in your past, but just call up someone who's promising. Call up someone who's trying and be like, hey, let's actually spend some quality time together so I can prove to myself that actually I've healed this, changed. I've healed this wound. And actually, there are good people out there as well. Like, don't be afraid. I think a lot of people, when they go through healing, similar to if you're going through physiotherapy, a lot of people are ready to walk, but they don't trust the healing. Yeah, they don't trust. They don't want to put their full weight on that leg. Like, my sister recently broke her leg, well, last year, and it was her learning to trust her leg. Again, it's like, I know my leg is healed, and I know I have hope that my leg is. Leg is healed, but the trust it takes me to put my weight on my leg, that's a mental battle. Right. It's no longer about the physical healing. It's now me overcoming the mental battle and the mental obstacles in my way. And I think it's the same with relationships.
- [51:04]
Renee
Absolutely.
- [51:05]
Courtney
A lot of us, okay, you had a friendship breakup. You're now surrounded by good people. You say that you've healed, but now there's a mental fear that is, I don't want to trust anybody again because I don't want what happened to me before to happen again. And I can't fully say to that person that maybe it won't happen again. But what I would say is be encouraged by the fact that you healed before and you can heal again. Be encouraged by the fact that you probably won't even let it get that.
- [51:33]
Renee
Far before you learn. Yeah.
- [51:35]
Courtney
This time, you know you're gonna break my leg again. You're gonna break my leg. I've seen this before.
- [51:40]
Renee
Yeah.
- [51:40]
Courtney
So I'm gonna leave it just at a minor fracture before it gets to a.
- [51:44]
Renee
A full. Full issue.
- [51:46]
Courtney
Yeah. And that's what. That's how you have to see. I'm gonna let it be a sprain before you snap my leg into. So it gives you wisdom as well. Sometimes walking with a limp reminds you of how to move.
- [51:57]
Renee
Right. Do you know what? This is absolutely not in any way as extreme, but it's like when you get a cold or the flu.
- [52:04]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [52:04]
Renee
All of a sudden, you're thinking about all of the times that you could breathe. You know what I mean? Like, oh, there is nothing like chest congestion.
- [52:11]
Courtney
Congestion.
- [52:11]
Renee
Yeah. And nasal congestion to make you realize. And, oh, wow. When I could breathe and when I could do all of these things, it was incredible. Yeah. And then you get the ability to. After it clears up, you're like, oh, my goodness, this is so fantastic. Until it becomes normal again.
- [52:24]
Courtney
Yeah.
- [52:24]
Renee
I think we need to trust and believe that we'll overcome and it will become normal.
- [52:28]
Courtney
Yeah. But even with that, it's remembering, because it's the flip, right. When you can breathe again, remembering when your nose was blocked.
- [52:36]
Renee
Yeah.
- [52:36]
Courtney
Because then you go out with the.
- [52:38]
Renee
Scarf, and don't be going out without those scarves.
- [52:41]
Courtney
Do you get what I mean? That's when start acting a bit better. Like, okay, I'm a bit wiser now. I'm sharper, because I know the pain. I actually know the pain. I'm not. My mum broke her leg when we were really young. Right. And it was. When she was. It was a snowy day. Snowy ish. And she was walking up this path. You know when it's like. I don't know if anyone can relate, but you know when there's a fieldy area or like a park and you can tell there's a path, like where there's pavement and then there's a path through the trees that has now become a trodden input path because everyone have just decided that they want me, but it's not an actual place. So there used to be a place like that in front of our home. And so she was going where everyone else went and she slipped and broke her leg, Right? Absolutely. My mom never walked that path again. She never go the long way on the pavement because I know the pain of the fracture. Sometimes when you remember the pain, you walk better, you move better. Better. You do things better. And it's the same with friendships. Right. Okay, cool. My last friendship ended because of gossip. I remember that twinge. I'm walking with that limp. But now a new person has come. I've been there before. I've been there before.
- [53:54]
Renee
He's got nothing for you.
- [53:55]
Courtney
And so don't lose the lesson from the pain. Still carry the lesson into the new friendships as well. Well. And that's what I mean. It's like when you can remember the blocked nose.
- [54:07]
Renee
Yeah.
- [54:08]
Courtney
You start acting. Right.
- [54:09]
Renee
Yeah, you do.
- [54:09]
Courtney
That's when you actually start acting. Right. And you avoid what got you there in the first place. So it's having hope, but it's also carrying the wisdom that comes from the pain. Beautiful. That's what I think heartbreak does sometimes. It prepares you to do friendship better.
- [54:24]
Renee
Yeah.
- [54:24]
Courtney
It may not be with the same person, but at least. But it'll be better with the next. Next person. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, well, that was a wholesome conversation.
- [54:32]
Renee
That was really wholesome.
- [54:33]
Courtney
Sisters. It'll be really good to hear from you guys how you navigate healing, heartbreak, friendship, breakups. Cuz it's tough, man. It can be sometimes more painful. No offense to the guys, but it's sometimes more painful than a robotic relationship. Okay, that man can go. But my girl, oh, my girl, my girl. I thought you were going to be my bridesmaid. I thought you were going be the answer to my child. I thought you were going to be there when I gave birth.
- [54:57]
Renee
Where are you now?
- [55:00]
Courtney
Growing all together so you know that channel you rap. Where are you now? Where are you now? Yeah, literally you said you was going to be there.
- [55:11]
Renee
Sorry.
- [55:13]
Courtney
It's because of Mandy that I know.
- [55:15]
Renee
That song for sure.
- [55:16]
Courtney
Never ever listen to that song. And it's Mandy. Literally, you could be with Mandy. All you hear. Where are you now?
- [55:23]
Renee
What is the trap?
- [55:26]
Courtney
Shout out to you, Randy dear. But yeah, how do you deal with it? How do you deal with somebody who you thought they were going to be there and now they're not? Now they are not. Leave a comment down below on YouTube, leave a comment on Spotify, wherever you're listening, or come over to our Instagram actually. And so while you're there, you can hit the follow button O my sisterhood. Literally everywhere from LinkedIn to Instagram to ext TikTok. Okay, we are actually there. And whilst you're there, why not follow us as well? You can follow my lovely best friend Renee Kapuku and you can follow me at cdwatting.
- [56:03]
Renee
And of course, to stay up to date with everything in TMS world. Www.to my sisters.com we've made it super easy for you. So please, please don't walk, run to make sure that you are updated on a weekly basis. Like girls, come on. And it's free. Not to mention that we also have something for you guys that are interested in being part of a real sisterhood. It's literally called the Sisterhood, where we are with our ladies across the world every single week. We have our weekly Wednesday live stream where we catch up, we gist, we pray, we just spend a good time with the sisters, holding each other in prayer, holding each other in love. So make sure you sign up to the sisterhood.
- [56:45]
Courtney
Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, well. We hope that you've enjoyed this episode. We hope that was actually really good for you. Share it with someone if you feel like they could benefit from it. But we will see you next week, Sunday, 8pm GMT or BST +1. Whichever one it is, you'll get it. You'll get it. You will get it. But yeah, sisters, we love you. And as always in every situation, keep glowing and growing.
- [57:28]
Dad
My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [57:42]
LinkedIn Advertiser
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