Getting Engaged At The Same Time Almost Ended Our Friendship

Summary

---

To My Sisters Podcast

Episode: "Getting Engaged At The Same Time Almost Ended Our Friendship"

Hosts: Courtney Daniella Boateng & Renée Kapuku
Air Date: September 8, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and candid episode, Courtney and Renée open up about the unexpected challenges and deep growth that came with both getting engaged within a month of each other. They share the behind-the-scenes realities: moments of comparison, pain, and deep introspection that nearly fractured their sisterhood. With vulnerability, humor, and wisdom, the hosts explore how significant life transitions can test even the strongest friendships — and how, through faith, perseverance, and intentional communication, they found ways to heal and fortify their bond.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating Parallel Life Transitions (00:12–03:57)

• Both Courtney and Renée got engaged just a month apart (Courtney in early November 2024, Renée in mid-December 2024).
• The close timing invited comparisons, not just from outsiders but internally as well.
• Living together, working together, and then entering similar life stages created new complexities.
• Courtney: "This was the first time where we really got hit with the, oh no, there's a door here. Comparison is trying to keep creep back in." (00:21)

2. The Beauty & Strain of Shared Seasons (03:12–06:15)

• Renée begins with the positives: “First and foremost, beautiful season. Absolutely… being able to share a lot of our experiences together.”
• The hosts discuss embracing their "lover girl era" and gently mock haters who said they’d end up alone.
• Sharing romantic milestones simultaneously came with unexpected joy — but also layers of exposure, discomfort, and vulnerability.
• External expectations compounded the internal pressures.

3. Friendship Fractures Exposed (08:15–10:43)

• The season of engagement and transition revealed “deep flaws” in their friendship — namely, unaddressed insecurities and unmet expectations.
• Renée: “That was probably the season where I feel like we really had to fight for our relationship.” (00:29, 06:15)
• Both struggled with how to show up for one another while navigating their own changes and emotions.
• Courtney: "It was actually very painful in that there was probably certain ways that you wanted me to show up for you that I was unable to." (00:40)

4. Insecurity, Shame, & Idolatry (10:43–16:24)

• Renée speaks honestly about feeling shame over insecurities as Courtney received the initial "spotlight."
• Both discuss how they’d, consciously or unconsciously, idolized their friendship — expecting it to be infallible when, in reality, flaws surfaced.
• Courtney: "I think at that point, I was like, no, I think this is the first time I've experienced, like, a letdown… I just. I don't understand how this could even be possible." (00:59, 16:41)
• The struggle to balance celebrating a friend while managing personal difficulties.

5. The Role of Life's Rhythms & Proximity (13:49–16:24)

• Proximity had bonded them, but marriage forced new boundaries and intentional acts of friendship.
• Distance (literal and emotional) meant they had to be deliberate about staying close.
• Adjusting to new relationship dynamics, respecting each other’s evolving needs and space.

6. Addressing Comparison & Competition (15:25–18:50)

• The similarity of their life paths (age, schools, work) led to both internal and external comparisons.
• Realizing that just because lives follow a similar "rhythm," does not mean it always translates to harmony.
• Courtney recalls previous podcast discussions about how comparison can turn a best friend into a "competitor."

7. Confronting Hurt & Rebuilding Trust (18:50–23:45)

• Both share how the “busyness” of wedding planning made it hard to process or fix relational wounds in real time.
• The pain of feeling let down was amplified by their public friendship, high expectations, and external pressures.
• Courtney describes the experience as "warfare" — a deep, exhausting emotional battle.
• Courtney: "There are some conversations that are even harder to have even when you deeply love somebody." (16:41)
• Serving as each other's maid/matron of honor added both tension and healing opportunities.

8. Growth Through Perseverance & Communication (31:10–39:45)

• Deliberate, repeated conversations were essential — healing showed up in "waves," not instant fixes.
• They emphasize the need for active, persistent communication and patience.
• Both individually and together, they did internal work to process emotions and challenge negative thoughts.
• Renee: "Friendship really is active. There will never be a dormant period... in this particular season... you actually need to spend some real time and intentionality in this area." (34:12)

9. Faith, Maturity, and the Power of Sisterhood (29:19–49:57)

• Both consistently reference their faith as a sustaining force in navigating the roughest moments.
• Childhood lessons on sisterhood, now actively tested, became real-life practices.
• Courtney: "This has just been God keeping us through it." (29:33)
• They underline the difference between letting a friendship 'fizzle' out and choosing the difficult path of mending.
• Emphasis on respect for changing boundaries and evolving needs within friendship.

10. Practical Lessons & Encouragement to Listeners (49:11–51:00)

• The hardest conversations are often the most necessary. Letting issues linger leads to bitterness and resentment.
• Courtney: "Go and have that hard convo with your girl if you want her to stay in your life, man." (50:00)
• Recognizes that healing takes time — and requires both patience and courage.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Courtney: "Just because a song has the same rhythm doesn't mean it harmonizes together." (13:49)
• Renée: "You're always tested in the areas that you're called to." (01:16, 29:17)
• Courtney (on letting things fester): "This is the consequence of not nipping certain things in the bud quickly or letting certain things ruminate for a bit too long..." (17:47)
• Renée: "You suck and I suck. We're gonna suck together." (43:45)
• Both, on never fighting over men:
  • Courtney: "To be clear, we weren't fighting over men." (47:20)
  • Renée: "We would rather eat salad than be caught... fighting over a man, God forbid." (47:29)
• Renée: "Friendship really is active. There will never be a dormant period." (34:12)
• Courtney: "Having to love someone who you're struggling to forgive and then having to forgive so that you can move forward in love is just like, wow, this is a lot." (49:11)
• Renée: "So yeah, go and have that hard convo with your girl if you want her to stay in your life, man." (50:00)

---

Key Timestamps for Important Topics

• 00:12–03:57 – Introductions; setting up context of simultaneous engagements and transitions.
• 04:00–06:15 – Initial reflections on the joy and complexity of experiencing these milestones together.
• 08:15–10:43 – Discussing the pain and exposure of friendship flaws during transition.
• 10:43–12:41 – Vulnerability around insecurity, shame, and idolizing friendship.
• 13:49–16:24 – Impact of proximity and similar life stages; boundaries and rhythms in friendship.
• 18:50–23:45 – Rebuilding after hurt; the role of busyness and showing up during tense times.
• 31:10–39:45 – Lessons on perseverance, active communication, multiple healing iterations.
• 42:02–45:41 – Maid/matron of honor experiences and the importance of showing up.
• 49:11–51:00 – Practical encouragement on conflict, forgiveness, and healthy friendship maintenance.

---

Tone & Style Highlights

The episode is raw, warm, and full of humor even amidst vulnerability. Both hosts move fluidly between laughter and gravity, championing transparency and self-reflection. Faith and personal growth are foundational; gentle banter sits beside soul-searching wisdom, creating an engaging, relatable, and uplifting listening experience.

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• Major life transitions, even joyous ones, almost always strain relationships in unexpected ways.
• Deep, active communication and patience are non-negotiable for lasting friendship.
• It's normal for needs and boundaries in friendships to shift as lives evolve — intentionality is key.
• Confront issues directly and proactively, rather than letting them linger.
• Faith, forgiveness, and a commitment to growth are powerful anchors for any relationship.

---

Final Word:
Sisterhood is beautiful and hard — surviving change, distance, new boundaries, even heartbreak. But it’s worth every “hard conversation” and challenge. As the hosts say, “Keep glowing and growing.”

Transcript

[Courtney]

Only Boost Mobile.

[Renee]

Boost Mobile will give you a free year of service. Free year when you buy a new 5G phone.

[Courtney]

New 5G phone. Enough. But I'm your hype man. When you purchase an eligible device, you.

[Renee]

Get $25 off every month for 12.

[Courtney]

Months with credits totaling one year of free service.

[Renee]

Taxes extra for the device and service plan online only. I actually have my own life. You have your own life, and you have to go through your process. I have to go through mine.

[Courtney]

This was the first time where we really got hit with the oh, no, there's a door here. Comparison is trying to keep creep back in.

[Renee]

That was probably the season where I feel like we really had to fight for our relationship.

[Courtney]

It had made its way into our friendship a lot earlier than our engagements. But I think our engagements were the light that brought the exposure.

[Renee]

It was actually very painful in that there was probably certain ways that you wanted me to show up for you that I was unable to.

[Courtney]

Oh, no. Actually, there is a deep, deep, dare I say, flaw.

[Renee]

I had also idolized you and idolized our friendship.

[Courtney]

I think at that point, I was like, no, I think this is the first time I've experienced, like, a letdown. At that time, I genuinely was so grieved, like, about our friendship, because I think certain things came to light that I was like, I just. I don't understand how this could even be possible.

[Renee]

Yeah, you're always tested in the areas that you're called to.

[Courtney]

That's it. We are going through it. One thing that I actually wanted to ask, especially reflecting on transitions and what's happened this year is as we've been preparing to get married, and it's a very big change. Like, you got married in March. And a lot of questions that people have around that change is how it affected our friendship.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So, like, how does you know, being two best friends who live together, work together, each other every day, and that's essentially, for all intents and purposes, each other's soulmate. Just saying, how did you getting married affect our relationship? And I wanted us to dive into that a bit, actually, like, because I think when what people see is two best friends who got mar. Who got engaged. Sorry, like, so close to each other. So for context, I got engaged November 2nd.

[Renee]

Yep.

[Courtney]

Let's say November 2nd.

[Renee]

Let's say something.

[Courtney]

2024, you got engaged December 13th, I believe so 2024.

[Renee]

That used to be true.

[Courtney]

In the name of Jesus. So two best friends that get engaged literally a month apart, and it's like, whoa, that's Amazing. And obviously everyone's like best friend goes kill most the behind the scenes of that. What's the behind the scenes of that though? Like genuinely two best friends going through the same let's just the same life season. The same life changes at the same time. Especially with how demanding, stressful and tense such a transition.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Is going from being single to being married.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

It's not. Maybe we should have the tea and.

[Renee]

Even adjust my myself comfortable since this is part it's giving People magazine. You know, people like give me like interview. Oh gosh, dude. That is such a multi layered question. I think I'm going to start with the surface and then we'll, we'll go go deep and not even necessarily the surface. I'll talk about the obvious stuff and then I'll talk about the less obvious stuff. So I think first and foremost beautiful season. Absolutely. Like beautiful, beautiful season. Like being able to share a lot of like our experiences together. I feel like every, you know, everyone. Oh yeah, that's God's purpose, God's call and you guys are called to do life together. All that kind of beautiful. It's actually beautiful.

[Courtney]

I think.

[Renee]

Seeing us also both in our lover girl era has been delicious. And shout out to all our haters, especially the ones that said we're going to end up with cats. We got the head honcho caps. Big boy cats.

[Courtney]

You're insane.

[Renee]

No, I think about that.

[Courtney]

Genuinely.

[Renee]

I think about that often because I still remember like when we would be getting haters and we'll say, we'll be saying the most basic of things. Don't cheat on your wife or like commenting on marriage. And there will be somebody that will come out of the woodworks to come and tell us that we are aggrieved because we are single. Yeah. Well, we regret to inform you HR Is handing you a letter as we speak. But that's not the case. And I think, I think it's been beautiful to be able to see concurrently how we've accepted love, especially in a romantic life. Because as much as we can say, oh you know, our friendship prepared us for friendship with our spouse. Spouse, there's still so many elements and experiences of love that I know you're experiencing that go above and beyond or are outside of the. I wouldn't say confines, but above and beyond. There's, there's the experience exactly. Of our friendship. And so I think it, it, it's been beautiful being able to almost like switch positions insofar as like me taking a back seat or like you Taking a backseat and like sharing the spotlight of experience, if that makes sense. And being able to like, yeah, share. Share that whole. That whole experience. Like, it was. It was a rough time because it was another thing that was added to all of the things that we had to do. So it was like, yeah, we're besties, but also we're still living together and then we're also still doing tms together. And then it's like, oh, now there's men that sometimes be coming over in a holy way. Nobody else. Because we were not. Let's make it clear, cuz I know people are going to be like, oh, men was coming over between set hours. Between set hours.

[Courtney]

That is hilarious.

[Renee]

Yeah, we is holy. We ain't perfect. We ain't perfect. We is trying to be saved and sanctified. So at appropriate hours, obviously the men would visit us and stuff. And I think it's all of these extras. It is. It's been beautiful. But I think it's also been tough in that I think that period of transition also, as you were saying, exposed a lot that I think even I was like, damn, oh my God. And like, being super honest, like, we've had a pretty, I want to say calm relationship for the most part, but there were definitely some tense moments. Child. And being able to get to a new level of depth, a new level of grace and have to. I think that was probably the season where I feel like we really had to fight for our relationship, if that makes sense. Like we really, really had to contend for one another. And I feel like as much of it was very. It was actually very painful in that there was probably certain ways that you wanted me to show up for you that I was unable to and vice versa. And getting to a place where rather than doing the whole, especially me, I would say on. On my part, and it's something that I've spoken about on the podcast relatively recently. Get into a place more quickly where I can admit actually I felt some type of way about something and not sticking my head into the sand and like, deciding to process it by myself. I feel like this whole black period where we have been really refining our characters almost concurrently has also forced us to confront the small tears in our relationship that then build up into the bigotes.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So, yeah, it was very much, oh, wow, damn. I love my friend and I love this for my friend, but me too. I'm also going through my things and I think the girls will probably have heard this now on the, like, most recent podcast episode that we Shared or that was. We'll see. But even that period between, like, engagement. So you got engaged first, and then I got engaged after that. Having to confront the whole insecurity that I felt in that period of, like, oh, damn, now the spotlight is gonna.

[Courtney]

Be a bit on me.

[Renee]

I was like, oh, girl, is she. Is she seeing someone? Is she seeing. Is this all of the kind of insecurities that I think women naturally go through, but I felt very ashamed of? And because you were the subject, I then felt very conflicted about sharing how I really felt with you in that moment, because I was like, oh, no, my girl actually deserves the spotlight. Let me go and sit in the back somewhere, like, process my feelings by myself. Not realizing that that was probably one of the worst things that I. I could have done in that. In that period. And so getting to a place where I could be like, oh, girl, actually, I know you're at. You're really enjoying having the best time of your life right now, but I need you to show up for me in that. In that particular way. So that was a particularly tough time, I want to say, in that season of transition and then Wedding, House, all of that kind of stuff. It's like, oh, our relationship has now very much changed. Like, I'm very, very used to Courtney's in the next room or, like, Courtney's in close proximity. I was even commenting on this a couple of weeks ago, where I was like, oh, my God, I had to call Courtney FaceTime. Like, you're not in my close vicinity anymore. And so now being very intentional about how I show up as a friend to you and actually having to. Not to say that I didn't think this through, but it's like, oh, proximity now isn't something that bonds us or keeps us close together. It's now something I have to be very, very, very intentional about, especially because both of us are in transition. And then it's also trying to gauge, okay, what's a respectful distance but also respectful closeness. It's like, I want you to experience all of the good stuff with your husband, like, do your thing. But then at the same time, it's like, oh, okay, how do we now navigate? Like, what's the. Where are the new boundaries that we are asserting? Where are the new places and spaces are that. And all of that kind of good stuff? And then I think also. So this is.

[Courtney]

No, no, go.

[Renee]

Really going into the.

[Courtney]

You said surface deep.

[Renee]

Surface deep. And then I think also being honest about our lack of capacity when we have it right. I Think being a singleton or being somebody that's, like, not married, it's like, yeah, you know, if my friend needs me, I'm gonna show up. It's cool. And it's like, oh, now you actually have another person in the mix. It's like, I don't want to offend my person, but, you know, I want to show up for my friend at the same time. So it's like trying to make sure that you're still showing up for your friend, but then still also honoring your relationship whilst both of you are going through that at the same time. God damn. It's hard. It is very, very, very hard. And then, honestly, just, like, constantly being in that mode of almost self reflection, of, like, am I showing up enough? Is there more stuff that I can be doing? Like, where are the areas that I can improve? All of that kind of good stuff. So it was surfacing insecurities that I have not been used to in our friendship in this season. And also trusting and taking those to you, but also taking that to God, too. It's like, well, girl, you're not meant to be the be all and end all to your friend anyways. Yeah. And I think also confronting where, in my mind, I had also idolized you and idolized our friendship to the point where. Okay, where I can't come through or, like, where I can't show up or, like, where I have a limitation. I'm like, damn. Still reckoning with that sense of deep inadequacy and shame, but realizing that that's actually part and parcel of the human condition in any relationship. Yeah, that was a lot.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

I hope that made sense to you. Y' all watching. I hope that made sense. But, yeah, it's like, it's really realizing the level of maturity. I know we've said that a lot on this. This episode. Maturity, the level of transparency and vulnerability that it requires, the level of self reflection constantly that it requires, especially as things are currently in flux. And then also holding firm to the fact, like, really trusting and believe that this is a covenant friendship. So irrespective, things can change. We can change, but the commitment still stays.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Always.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Amen.

[Renee]

The friendship, the love, the sisterhood. Still, like, that's still my G. Yeah. Irrespective. It's like, okay, you changing your surname now. I love that. That's cute. I'm a respecter. That's still my G. Or, like, you know, I may not be able to come and show up in as much capacity as I would personally like to, but I still my G. Like, that's still my covenant partner, princess.

[Courtney]

I hear that. I hear that. And I appreciate that honesty as well. I think somebody was asking me this question recently, and I was just saying to them, like, I think people see two people who. Whose life has a similar rhythm, and they forget that at some point. Point. Just because a song has the same rhythm doesn't mean it harmonizes together. Like, it's not the same thing. I think we've been through similar seasons because we're the same age, we went to the same school. So certain life milestones we're going through at the same time. Like what school we went to, what uni we went to, what we did after uni, stuff like that. And I think at each junction of an. Interesting enough. Interestingly enough, all of those are transitions, right? Like going from sixth woman to uni, going from uni to your job. And for a while, I think those were the major two life transitions that we went through together. And there have been different, you know, seasons that have happened in between, but I think those ones were the biggest ones that allowed for comparison to creep in. I think if you go back to, like, episode one of this podcast, like the first lesson we're talking about, talking in our Frenemies episode, about just how easy it is for people to compare you when your life looks very similar and how that then can put a big rift in your friendship. Because it's like, oh, suddenly my biggest support system, my insecurities, as well as other people's commentary are trying to make them my biggest competitor.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I think this transition was very much the same. And up until this point, I think life has been so beautiful for us because we've been able to support each other through very big things, very different things, very similar things, especially running a company together and getting to do the podcast with each other. And for the last five years, it was like, oh, no, this is my person. That's my person. And then I think this was the first time where we really got hit with the, oh, no, there's a door here. And that comparison is trying to keep creep back in. That competition is trying to keep back in. And I think it had made its way into our friendship a lot earlier than the. And we've had conversations about this, but it had made its way into our friendship a lot earlier than our engagements. But I think our engagements were the light that brought the exposure.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Where it was like, oh, no, actually, there is a deep, deep, dare I say, flaw in our friendship that we haven't been addressing. And this has been the catalyst that has brought it right up to the surface.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I think at that time, it. I'm not going to lie. For me, it was really tough. Like, really, really hard. I think having. We're very good at having tough conversations, but there are some conversations that are even harder to have even when you deeply love somebody. And I think the end of last year was that point where it was like, oh, I don't think our friendship had ever made me feel let down. And I think at that point I was like, no. I think this is the first time I've experienced, like, a letdown in our friendship. And that was hard because I think our sister has been tested in so many different ways. And each time we're just like, no devil. I can see you.

[Renee]

I see where you come.

[Courtney]

I see you, honey. I spy my little eyes, Satan. But this was. It felt like I had been hit sideways. Like, I didn't see this coming. I didn't. That. That was the perfect right hook. You got me.

[Renee]

You know them slow mo.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Literally, you got. I did not see that one. You did that. Wow. I even have to applaud you. I didn't see that coming. And I think it's. It was then a big lesson to me about open doors and how we have to be very meticulous with the certain thoughts and the certain issues and offenses and gripes and like you were saying, tears that creep up in our relationship that we don't address quickly. And I think for me, it was about, wow, this is the consequence of not nipping certain things in the bud quickly or letting certain things ruminate for a bit too long, or not having the conversation when you know you needed to because you wanted to keep the peace or you wanted to save face. And I think at that stage, I was kind of like, Especially because life was getting busy. And I think this is so interesting. Like, I think the enemy not only attacks you in the perfect way, he attacks you at the perfect time.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Because we were then so busy with life. Like, once you. Oh, my God. As soon as that man puts that ring on your finger, everyone's in your face. So when's the wedding? Where are you doing it? What color are we wearing? Give me some breathing space for goodness sake. And I think we decided to get, like, you got married a lot sooner than I. Like, I. I think what between my engagement and my wedding is about 10 months. Yours was about three. So there's this intense, like, busyness that just comes of organizing A wedding, talking about moving houses, merging lives. And it's so much administration, so much planning, so much financial commitment that it is the most stressful thing you could do alongside running a business, having a job. It's so much stress that it then meant we both knew, okay, our friendship is under attack. But neither of us had capacity to fight. Do you get what I mean? Like, that's. That is a different level of warfare. Like, that's the only word that I could use for. For me, of how I felt. It felt like warfare. Like, we talked about it in South Africa a bit, and we talked about it on the Wisdom and wellness podcast with Mpumi and just talking about how, like, at that time, I. I genuinely was so grieved, like, about our friendship, because I think certain things came to light that I was like, I just. I don't understand how this could even be possible. Yeah, Like, I don't. I'm so confused. But then also, like you said, kind of having to come down of this high horse and be like, sis, like, your friendship with Renee and your best friend Renee is not infallible. She's not. She's not above. Do you get. I mean, like, she's not God. And it's like, what you're saying about that idolatry. Like, you can't idolize somebody. And I think that was a perfect opportunity for God to be like, don't make this person an idol. Don't make this friendship an idol. I think it was also, like, the tensions that arose being two brides at the same time. It deeply tested my character because I think having experienced certain things that genuinely, like, you know, this, like, I was genuinely quite heartbroken at the beginning of this year because I was like, oh, my God, who can I even trust? And I have. I had. I was about to say, this guy's trying to console me. I'm like, go away. I know you're about to be my husband to me, but my best friend. Piss off. And it was genuinely, like, literally, leave me. And no one knew how to, like, because I was just dealing with what felt like a deep betrayal. And I don't even know why it felt that deep, but I think. Well, I know exactly why it felt that deep, but I think it was then me having to be your maid of honor at that time. And then deep, like, wow, our friendship hasn't even. And I don't know if you'd agree, but at that point, it felt like our friendship hadn't fully mended or healed. So it was just like, we're still in this state of awkwardness and tension, and I'm still in this place of, like, deep sadness at that point. But I still have to serve and I still have to show up, and I still have to be. Because this. I. I think I was very cognizant at that point that this only happens once. By God's grace, this actually only happens once. So if I don't show up.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

This is going to be the story forever. Like, this is going. No, but for real, do you get what I mean? Like, as much as it may have been valid, as much as it may have been understandable, this is what you're going to remember. Your maid of honor, your best friend, showed up in that time like, this. Do you. I mean, and so for me, it was just like, no, you've. You've still got to show up. And I. I definitely will say I didn't. I don't know if I showed up perfectly, but I try to show up to the best of my ability. And that was tough as well. Like, it was beautiful. And I think what's so funny about this is every emotion is so. Even conflicting emotions. Each emotion is so real.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So the joy you're feeling is real, the sadness you're feeling is real, and it's just happening at the same time.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I think that was. I've never experienced that before, so it was really, really tough. And I think as a. As a period in our friendship, it definitely made me realize, like, wow, there are layers to this friendship and this sisterhood thing. And I. I almost thank God for it now. Like, now that we're a bit out of it and we've had time to reflect on it, and even now being in the position of getting married in a couple of weeks and deeping like, okay, cool. Seeing you show up for me and just being like, okay, this is because there was a bit of a fear that lingers as well, and sadness that lingers. And so it's just like, no, like, you have to learn to. I think I've just been learning the essence of forgiveness and deep. A deep sense of, like, our friendship is different, but in a better way. Because I think there's something about warfare and there's something about challenges in any relationship, and that either ruins a relationship or fortifies it. And I think we're getting to a place now where it's like, our relationship is being fortified. And it's like, I like this. I like how, like you said, there was an opportunity to contend for our relationship and we both showed up to contend for it. We both tried. Like, we are both trying and making sure that no, like, it's been a weird couple of months, but this friendship ain't going nowhere. And that's just. That's just assumed. Do you get what I mean? Like, this friendship isn't going anywhere. It's just going to continue. And it's then meant we have had to mature in the way that we think, in the way that we approach each other. I do also think that there is a newfound. Not a new found but before. It's like, that's my girl. That's my girl. But then also identifying like there's a new respect. Yeah, there has to be a new respect. And it's a respecting not just of the person but obviously of their new boundaries that they have to set in this new season. And I think that's really been nice to see as well, that like there wasn't. As much as we are sisters for life, there isn't this over familiarity or this entitlement that means that we can't respect what each other is going through from a healthy distance. And let me know if you want me to step in on how I can show up. But also I realize that this is your life and you have to do. You need to sort out your own stuff. And that's also been really nice to see because I know that there are some friends that struggle with that as well. Like, struggle with the relinquishing of the proximity and the access and all of that stuff. And I think we make it sound. It can make it sound negative. I can make it sound negative. But I think it's also a really positive thing because it allows this person to rediscover who they are. And I remember a friend telling us both that it's okay if our needs and our boundaries change. And I think it was a huge reminder that, oh, now that you're stepping into a new season, there's also a new version of you that's emerging. There's a new person who, like you were saying, who may be more sensitive. There's a new person who may need people to show up in a particular way or need a certain level of affirmation or there is a new person who's emerging who needs a bit of space to figure out who they are and what they're doing or whatever it is. And I think this season for me revealed that I had different needs than I had before. Different needs as a friend, different needs as a daughter. And it's been with everyone. And I think that has allowed people to either step up to the plate or have to reassess whether this is. This is really gonna work as a relationship. And I've been pleasantly surprised with everybody, actually, as to how they've. They've responded to me being a bit more articulate about my needs because I think similar to what you were describing about sensitive creativity, I've realized that, like, similar thing. I'm actually. I need people to rely on more than I did before. I'm very used to do it. Diy, babe. Like, I'm very. I will do it by myself. I can make it work by myself. All of that. And now, stepping into this season, I'm like, crap. I need people. Like, I actually need people and not just all community to have fun and not feel lonely. I mean, I actually need you to make life work. I need you to step into destiny. I need you and articulating to people. I need you to be here. I need you to help me with this. I need you to tell me that has been so hard. So, so hard. And so just being like, oh, this is a new version of me that has to have people show up. And I need to be honest about that. And I think also embracing that there's a version of me that doesn't have to. I can be very good at absorbing things and just being like, okay, that happened. Be more mature. Move on. Be more sure.

[Renee]

Move on.

[Courtney]

And it's like, no, there's a version of me that has to call stuff out sometimes because if I keep letting it build up, that's what leads to the sadness and the grief. And so I was just like, oh, okay, what does that look like? Without being rude or. And I think it's even been dealing with, okay, what does that look like? Without seeming like you're being hypercritical to get what I mean, all that. Why are you the one who's always pointing out the problems? And it's like, because I want the relationship to be better, but there are things that I'm saying that we need to talk about, but I don't want to be the one who always brings it up. Because then you sound like you're just super hypercritical. But then it's like, but then who will. Like, who will. Who will be the person who will be able to point and be like, the enemy's trying to grab us here, or, this is a stumbling block for us, you know, if you are someone who's like, I want my relationships or my friend, like, I want me and my bestie to go through every stage together. Just prepare for the warfare of it all.

[Renee]

There's serious warfare, bro.

[Courtney]

I'm not gonna lie. Just prepare for the warfare of it all. Because I think when you have a good friend and you've written a book on sisterhood and your whole platform is about sisterhood and you're building a global sisterhood, the biggest thing that's going to be tested is your sisterhood.

[Renee]

It's your sister.

[Courtney]

The biggest thing that's going to be tested is your friendship. And boy, you're always tested in the.

[Renee]

Areas that you're called to.

[Courtney]

That's it. We are going through it. So yeah, we've, we've been through it. And I've, I've really thank God for keeping us through it. Like, I don't think this has been a by our own strength thing. Yeah, I think this has just been God keeping us through it.

[Renee]

Definitely supernatural. That one is supernatural.

[Courtney]

Boy, that one is different.

[Sponsor]

If you're navigating anxiety, depression, relationship challenges, postpartum struggles, or something else, you deserve care that meets you where you are. Growtherapy is designed to help you find a therapist who fits your needs and supports the way you want to feel. They connect you with thousands of independent licensed therapists across the US Offering both virtual and in person sessions. You can search by insurance provider, specialty treatment methods and more to find a therapist who works for you. Whatever challenges you're facing, GrowTherapy is here to help. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com acast today to get started. That's growththerapy.com acast growtherapy.com acast availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Ondeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $250,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star trust pilot reviews, Ondeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in [e-mail] depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans an amount subject to lender approval.

[Courtney]

Yeah, Supernatural. But yeah, stay prayed up but also talk, communicate. I think. What do you think have been some of the biggest things you think have gotten us through this season?

[Renee]

I mean, perseverance being one of them. Like I think not in Our own strength. But I think what was paramount was the fact that we are very. We are very stubborn people, but in the best way in that we don't give up easily.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And I think the experience of. I think, first of all, because we were very. At least on my part, you're very like, sure, oh, yeah, this relationship is going to stay the same in its exact format as it is forever. I think if you are lulled into the false sense of security that relationships remain the same, then when a change does come, especially if it's a change that's hard or challenging or negative, you will be rocked because your actual sense of security was in the stasis and not the relationship necessarily itself. So I think our stubbornness, that the relationship, even though it would change, would stay, was really important. And I think especially in a world where we often discard our friends over less. Over lesser things. Over lesser things of, like, you didn't come to my birthday party or anything like that. But it's like, no, this is actually a deep sense of sadness, of grief, of, like, whoa, like, this is. This is my person. But, like, I've been really, really hurt by my person. But they're still my person. Like, still being stubborn and choosing to actively remember, like, this person is my person because of all of the things we've been through together, but also because of what I know of this person. I think our doggone stubbornness was definitely very, very important. I think also going through multiple iterations in the transition of our friendship. I think, as I'd mentioned earlier, I like for things to be done quickly, but I think I was confronted with my. Even my own feelings of, like, oh, thinking that I could get over something quickly. But then there's still the residual, oh, I still feel hurt. And I think being willing to go through multiple iterations and multiple conversations, because when we. When we say, oh, communicate with your sis or communicate with your girl, whatever, we're not saying communicate. You have the one conversation and it's over.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

I think what the last few months of our friendship have actually shown is that you have to also persevere. Even throughout the communication. You have to persevere through the multiple iterations of the expression of your emotions. Because, boy, it doesn't all come at once.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

It actually comes in waves. So we can have a conversation. And it's like, yeah, everything is all settled. But it's like, oh, maybe next week. And I'm pissed. Like, we'll have a conversation. It's like, oh, maybe next week. Oh, I still feel triggered by this. And so understanding that you'll have to go through multiple iterations and understand that healing is also not a linear journey, even within a friendship. So you may not necessarily feel like, oh, we're not. We're no longer friends. But there are still some wounds that need to be treated. Much like wounds in, like, life in general. Right? You get a car and it's like, oh, that hurts. Put some salve on it. It doesn't heal in a day, and room wasn't built in a day. So I think it's the persevering through the difficulties, persevering through the communication, persevering through the multiple iterations, persevering through the communication to get to the end point. And even knowing that there's no real, like, end point per se. I think what this has, the last couple of months have really taught me is that friendship really is active. There will never be a dormant period. You're always going to be working on something in the relationship. It's just that in this particular season, because everything else was squeezed, it's like this stuff is coming right to the top. Like, you can no longer push it to the side or whatever. Like, you actually need to spend some real time and intentionality in this area. I think also you already mentioned it, but us actually doing the work individually, because I think it's very easy to want to do stuff and mend stuff together. But then there's certain elements of our individuality that we have to deal with alone. And I think also being fine with that because, dude, there's always going to be moments where you're like, oh, if we could just do this together. And it's like, no, you're going through your process. I'm also going through my process. There'll be times where we come together and, you know, we share, we break bread, we communicate, we overcome. But then there's also a personal journey that actually needs to be done individually. And I think if there's one again, man, multiple learners. But if there's one thing that I was really, really forced to realize is that, damn, you actually, like, I actually have my own life. You have your own life, and you have to go through your process, I have to go through mine and be impatient with that. And then also, I think also where we lack capacity, being forced to build it, because I. I won't say that I was, like, super emotionally unavailable. I wasn't like, you know, a robot or anything like that. But I think my capacity to really understand my Emotions, but also other people's emotions and how it can linger and fester completely shot up because you, you start to realize, oh, wow, like not in like a simplistic way, but like people deal with things in a, at greater depth than you might think. It's not just about being angry, but it's like there's layers to it. There's different, there's different elements of something that may have offended someone and vice versa. And so even catching myself, like, oh my gosh, I feel some type of way about this in this particular moment and then letting it pass, or like, oh, this really annoyed me and then letting it pass. I think also lots of things, man, but I think also starting to identify where your thoughts end and where the enemies begins. So realizing that, yeah, you may have a valid emotion about a particular grievance, but then when it starts to continue to circulate, then knowing, ah, that's a ploy of the enemy to really hyper fixate on something. And as somebody that, that's often the way that my brain works in terms of I will zero in on something and upset. I'm an overthinker, we're still working on it, all of them things there. But I have a predisposition towards overthinking. So you'll take the most, smallest thing and be, what did this mean? I was like, what was that? What was that? When you start to hyper fixate on negative things, being able to identify in that moment, oh, actually, because of what I know of this person, because I know of what I know of this relationship, because of what I know of this covenant, this isn't true. And actually attacking those thoughts when they come. We often talk about attacking thoughts when they come in the context of the Christian walk, in the context of our relationship with God and all of the things that we do wrong. But in the context of a relationship, actually challenging some of the thoughts that may come to your head actively, especially within a relationship where that's not necessarily been tested before. So it's like, oh, thought pops into your head. This doesn't feel right. And this doesn't feel like it's in tandem to what I know of my friend or like what I feel about my friend, that's, that's where that, that has been exploited by the enemy. So being super on it, especially in, when you're in a state of like, heightened emotions or like, you know, there's some friction, that's when it's the easiest for the enemy to latch onto some of those residual emotions and drive it forward, and that becomes the prevailing emotion. So I think it really is that, and I think it is sometimes overriding, man. Overriding where your emotions can lead you. I think it's something that we often say on this podcast, like, they're great indicators, but their emotions can be terrible leaders. You'll find yourself in such a ditch so, so quickly. And I think trust and being committed to rebuilding trust has definitely been something that I think that we've really shown at. In the last kind of couple of weeks slash, months. And it's really funny when you're talking about, like, the whole experience of, like, maid of honor and stuff like that, because, like, in my head as well, I was thinking, oh, I don't know if. Not necessarily if you had, like, bad intentions, but it was more. So I don't know if our relationship has healed enough for you to feel comfortable taking that position, if that makes sense. And I. There was also a part of, like, almost guilt where I was like, oh, I don't really want this to also feel like a burdensome experience. Because our friendship had felt burdensome in, like, certain. In a. Literally the preceding season. Like, oh, my gosh, like, it has been so taxing to try and, like, fix this thing of taxing to pursue healing that it's like, oh, to not add this on top. It's like, I don't want this to feel burdensome, but it's like persevering. Exactly. Person persevering through that and not allowing that overthinking reflex to kick in and challenging it when it. When it comes. What else did we do that was actually helpful? But, yeah, I think patience as well. Again, patience. These things take time. Sometimes these child. Just patience. Like we are. As you mentioned that earlier on Eva, in this episode or the one that's just proceeding, it is respecting that. We're both forming. We're both transitioning. And I loved what you were saying about, like, leave and cleave, because it's like, oh, now this man, he's forced to listen to me. He's actually forced. If I wake up in the morning, you're forced. There's nothing that you can do. You have to. To comfort me and vice versa. And being able to develop that level of intimacy in tandem with developing a new kind of intimacy, I think made for greater capacity for both of us to be ultimately better friends, better partner, and better partners and better people.

[Courtney]

I completely agree. And I think on the maid of honor point, I'm very grateful that you asked me. I think I wouldn't have had it, like, any other way. And I knew. I mean, we joke about it all the time, but, like, even if we were at each other's throats, we're still going to be there first.

[Renee]

100.

[Courtney]

I'm not missing 100.

[Renee]

I'm not missing that. Even your wedding. I was like, even if she somehow. Even if I'm gonna be outside with my taboo. And, you know, when you have people walking by, like, why are you outside? Oh, I'm just supporting.

[Courtney]

Why are you not inside?

[Renee]

Don't worry. I just felt led by the spirit.

[Courtney]

Stay out of my bed.

[Renee]

Not invited by the guest, but led by the spirit.

[Courtney]

That's right. No, you know what? I'm really. And I think it just goes to show how deep the love was even. And is. Even when we were going through it as people. Like, no, I'm not going to miss that moment. It's giving, you know, like when you're.

[Renee]

Fighting with your spouse, but you're like, we'll do this.

[Courtney]

I'm going to do this together in public. And. And I think that's another thing that's helped to grow us as people. Like, having to show up on the podcast and talk and be friends and have to live. We were still living together, even in the midst of this crap show. Like, we were going through it, guys. Like, maybe one day we'll write a memoir. If someone can give us another book deal, we'll write about it. But genuinely, it was tough and realizing certain emotions on both parts. Just being like, oh, this is how you really feel? Oh, this is how you really feel? Okay. And then having to be like, okay, well, I ain't got nobody else, so you are my person.

[Renee]

Oh, do you know how funny that is? You suck and I suck. We're gonna suck together.

[Courtney]

And just being like, okay. I'm really grateful that I had the opportunity to be a raid of honor. I think it was something that I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have given up in any. And it was tough. Like. Like I said, it was tough, but it also helped. I think it helped. It put tensions on the healing process, but it also helped in certain ways because I think it was a moment for me to be reminded of just how much love was there as well. And I was just like, oh, you know what we can actually get through. Like, seeing you happy means more than anything that I'm holding against you. Do you know what I mean? And seeing you progress into a season which you genuinely want and are happy in, that means more than oh, this thing happened. I think even you getting engaged, that was a huge thing that surrounded it where it's like, I. Your happiness matters to me as a friend. And so I think helped me to put. Remember that. I think had. First of all, I would have been mad offended if you didn't ask me to be a weirdo one. I can't even lie to you. I would have actually probably. Girl, not gonna lie. Me and you were gone together.

[Renee]

There's no way.

[Courtney]

I'm so sorry.

[Renee]

Oh, God.

[Courtney]

Girl.

[Renee]

Literally the same. I was waiting. Nah, guys. I was waiting on the court. I was like, even. You know what? Even if it's just bright spot, I'll manage that one. Small. No, because, you know, I was like, it's fine. Even. Oh, she might not have bridesmaids. Even if it's just special guests, I'll manage it. Small. Crazy when people ask a special guest made of us manage it.

[Courtney]

Well, yeah. No, I think I. I would have been mad if you didn't. And I. I think having you as my matron of honor, girl, there was nobody else. There was nobody else.

[Renee]

Literally nobody else.

[Courtney]

And yeah, I think it. It was a learning curve. It has been a learning curve. And I don't even want to sit here or boldly and be like, we're out of it. It's. We're learning. We are learning and we're growing. And I think it's been nice to have all the principles that we've learned and shared about on this podcast be tested.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And then prove that it actually lives deep within us. Actually. Yeah. We're not just talking the talk about sisterhood. We. We're trying to put into action. And that's been good.

[Renee]

That's been good as well. Wholesome and healthy. Wholesome.

[Courtney]

Healthy.

[Renee]

But hard. Real hard. Sounds like the beginning of our next book.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Wholesome, Healthy, hard. The real on sisterhood through the decade.

[Courtney]

Literally. And I genuinely think people don't talk about it enough because it's either the friendship just ends.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Like, we're just not friends no more. Do you get. I mean, and I think that's another thing, like, in all honesty, knowing that our friendship is also so public.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Being like that cannot be the way.

[Renee]

Impossible. Impossible.

[Courtney]

That cannot be the way. Because so many people look just similar to how people have relationship goals. We are not naive, and this is not to boast. We are not naive of the fact that people look at our friendship and think, oh, my gosh, I want something like that. So then for it to fall apart and of all things, it fall apart because we were getting married. Crazy work hell would have had a.

[Renee]

Party that day over some men.

[Courtney]

Like, no, no, no. And to be clear, we weren't fighting over men.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

That was never. That would.

[Renee]

That would never happen. I promise you. I promise you.

[Courtney]

You were never fired over no man.

[Renee]

When I say I would like, we would rather eat salad than be caught, like, fighting over a man, God forbid. That's insane.

[Courtney]

No, no, no.

[Renee]

These are lovely men, by the way.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah. No, but no, it was more so just all the things that patriarchy embed in your mind, I guess.

[Renee]

Boy.

[Courtney]

And just. Yeah, we. We overcame by the power of the.

[Renee]

Blood of Jesus Christ. You should get to know. You should actually get to know Jesus. Genuinely. No, honestly. Because when I say that was probably like, I've read the Bible, but this one was like, audiobook and then also reading also. Oh, what did you, you know, asking also. You know this part where it says here, oh, can you pray for me? I was asking, can you pray? Oh, is there anything that you can do for. Can you pray for me?

[Courtney]

I'm going.

[Renee]

You know, like, when church people ask you, oh, like, how's it going? And you say, oh, I'm fine by the grace of. Of. I'm not good. I'm not good. I'm not. I will. Literally, we can laugh about this because we've overcome. I will go to church services. Yeah. If you know what church I go to, don't come off. If you see me looking inside, don't come up to me.

[Courtney]

I don't like that.

[Renee]

But if I'm looking now, you can come up to me. But it's like, you know, and the worst. You're hearing the worship music and the Word and all of that kind of stuff, and it's hitting your spirit.

[Courtney]

Yeah, man, I was.

[Renee]

I was crying in church. I was weeping in church.

[Courtney]

Yes.

[Renee]

That's the Holy Spirit. So you don't understand the heartbreak I'm carrying in my heart. You don't understand.

[Courtney]

Hey, Joy Boy, up here.

[Renee]

In fact, God, that. You know, sometimes when they dim the lights a little bit so people can't see when the lights came up. Oh, just tear st. Yeah, yeah.

[Courtney]

It's been tough. And so just all in all, it ain't for the faint of heart. It ain't. It ain't for the faint of heart. Like, deep. Just learning to persevere and having to have very hard conversations and having to show up and celebrate your friend and the people who you love, even in the midst of Your own grievances and having to love someone who you're struggling to forgive and then having to forgive so that you can move forward in love is just like, wow, this is a lie. This is a lot. But sisterhood is so powerful, man. Couldn't deal with that. And I'm very, very happy that at least we saw through it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

100%.

[Courtney]

So, yeah, go and have that hard convo with your girl if you want her to stay in your life, man.

[Renee]

Multiple converse. In fact, just. Yeah. Schedule multiple conversations.

[Courtney]

And I think that's another thing I will say, though, being proactive in. In the season of the awkwardness to just not let it linger, but to actually speak about it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And it's not forcing anyone to, because I think that's another thing I learned personally in this time that, like, not everyone is ready to talk about certain things at a particular time. But actually, at least being like, we need to talk about this.

[Renee]

You let me know when you're ready.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Because we do need to talk about it, but we don't have to talk about it now. And I think that's another way my impatience can sometimes manifest. Or it's like, no, we gotta talk about it right now. It's like, no, give people time to process. Give people time to come to terms with, to get their thoughts, all of that stuff. And then we can talk about it. But actually not being avoidant, because that's the easiest thing to do. Just be like, we're not going to talk about this. And that's how. I think that's how majority of relationships fizzle out.

[Renee]

They do.

[Courtney]

Because you just refuse to talk about it.

[Renee]

You actually run away, bruv.

[Courtney]

You know, and it's like, no wonder you're so upset and you're bitter because you're not talking about what's sitting on your chest. Talk about it.

[Renee]

Have the hard converse running. Stop running.

[Courtney]

Stop running.

[Renee]

You're not your same boat. There's no need.

[Courtney]

That's it won't get you far.

[Renee]

Well, sisters, this was a meaty return to the Internet streets. We hope that you guys have been prospering, especially amidst all the nonsense that's been going on right now.

[Courtney]

Thanks.

[Renee]

I think we do need to bring.

[Courtney]

Back a podcast license.

[Renee]

I feel like we've just been living our life.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And then every time we come back on the Internet, there's some nonsense, like some heebie jeebies occurring on the Internet. So, yeah, to all of you guys that have arisen out of nowhere, that are spewing Nonsense on the Internet. We're praying for you, sisters. We're also praying for you that you're actually still being fed well on these streets. If you find you're not being fed well, please refer to the Bible. That's a place where you'll always be fed.

[Courtney]

Oh, Lord.

[Renee]

But yeah. Sisters, we hope that you enjoyed our special two part series.

[Courtney]

Is it a series?

[Renee]

Two part special.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Renee]

Why not?

[Courtney]

Why not?

[Renee]

Yeah, two part special. Because then there'll be no worst parts. We don't have it for you. And we thank you sisters for showing up for us as well, for supporting us. Yes.

[Courtney]

Oh my gosh.

[Renee]

Loving on us, approaching us as well. Like it's been, it's been what we've needed in this season. So we do ask you to continue to pray for us and pray for this sisterhood and you can also support us in literally every single way at. To my sisterhood, literally on everything. Instagram, Twitter, Tik Tok. What, what do they call that thing? Thread, Thread, threads, all of that stuff. And of course you can follow us individual. You can follow my special, wonderful and exceptional best and you can come and follow me over at Renee Kapuku. We love it.

[Courtney]

And like I said at the beginning of last week's episode, we've been having events behind yalls back. If you are not a part of the mailing list, you're like, when did you have an event? Who, what? When? Where?

[Renee]

You're lazy.

[Courtney]

The podcast doesn't always get the live updates. So mailing list, sign up to the main list on our website to my sisters.com and we'll send this information straight to you so you can grab tickets. And this year marks our fifth year anniversary as a podcast. Crazy, insane. All the things that we've been able to do in the last five years by the grace of God and with the power of the sisterhood. And we are having a massive celebration at the end, towards the end of the year. So sign up to the main list so you could, because I'm telling you right now, if you see what's about to go down, if you miss it, you might miss it if you're not quick. So stay in the loop by signing up to the mailing list. It's free, it's easy, it's simple and we actually give you love notes like every week. It's not just announcements, it's actual wisdom. So sign up there and we hope that you have a wonderful, wonderful week. Go and have a hard conversation this week because why not go talk to someone you've been avoiding someone exactly. Well, we love you loads and as always, keep glowing and growing. High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a Sofi personal loan. A Sofi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got super speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more. That's s o f I.com p o w E R Loans originated By SoFi Bank NA Member FDIC Terms and Conditions apply. NMLS 696891.