'Is Having A Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?' Why Women Are Decentering Men and Relationships

Summary

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To My Sisters Podcast

Episode: "Is Having A Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?" – Why Women Are Decentering Men and Relationships

Hosts: Courtney Daniella Boateng & Renée Kapuku
Date: November 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, Courtney and Renée—the “online big sisters” behind To My Sisters—explore the fresh cultural phenomenon questioning whether being in a relationship, particularly having a boyfriend, is now seen as “embarrassing.” Sparked by Shantae Joseph’s viral British Vogue article and widespread online debate, the hosts interrogate why women are decentering men and relationships in their lives, what it means for modern womanhood, and how this shift impacts sisterhood, friendship, and self-worth.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Context and Cultural Spark

• The Spark: The phenomenon stems from Shantae Joseph’s British Vogue article, “Is It Embarrassing to Have a Boyfriend?”, which ignited fierce debate online and within women’s communities.
• Cultural Shift: The hosts note a visible transition from years where “relationship status” defined a woman’s value, to a present where individual fulfillment and self-actualization are center stage.
• Quote:

  "A boyfriend is not as impressive as it used to be because we're coming from a place socially where women are ... taught ... you are the value of your relationship. Hello, you are your relationship status. Your womanhood is validated by a man ... picking you." (Courtney, 27:15)

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2. Listener Dilemma: Validating the Desire for Love vs. Decentering Men

• Dilemma Read (10:28): A 19-year-old listener worries about never having been approached by a man, questioning whether she needs to “decenter men” or if her desire for partnership is normal.

• Courtney’s Response (10:57–18:35):

  • It's normal to want to be desired, but dangerous to let validation by men govern your self-worth.
  • The idea of “decentering” is not about never desiring men, but about not letting this desire control identity or actions.
  • Patience and self-development are key; don’t rush or beg for attention.

  "Desiring something doesn't necessarily mean that you need to be hyper fixated on it all the time ... Decenter their validation from your appreciation for your life." (Courtney, 15:36)

• Renée’s Response (18:35–23:32):

  • Reinforces that there’s more to life at any age—focus on friendships and other relationships.
  • Authenticity is a better attractor than performative femininity.

  "Oftentimes we attract ... the right kinds of people for us once we are actually our true and authentic self." (Renée, 18:47)

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3. The Online Uproar: Multiple “Schools of Thought”

• Why the Article Struck a Nerve (25:52–40:24):
  • Traditional roles dictated that a woman’s worth is tied to her “being chosen.”
  • Now, there’s a growing understanding: a boyfriend is an accessory, not a necessity.

  "Men are seeing that you're no longer a necessity. You are an accessory. And that ruffles men the wrong way." (Courtney, 31:05)

• Responses Divided:
  • Men: Some backlash, suggesting the conversation is from “bitter single women.”
  • Patriarchy Princesses: Women defensive of centering their boyfriends, often feeling attacked.
  • Main-Character Energy: Women embracing independent identity, seeing partners as “side characters.”
  • Man-Bashers: Some swing to the extreme of dismissing the idea of relationships entirely (not the message intended).

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4. Historical and Cultural Context of Relationships

• Societal Change (34:24):
  • Decades ago, marriage was essential for women’s financial/legal access. Today, those institutions no longer gatekeep based on marital status, lowering the “currency” of a boyfriend.

  "If you throw back to 50, 60 years ago without having a man as a husband, you couldn't have a bank account. Literally, you couldn't be on a mortgage. That's currency." (Courtney, 34:24)

• Religion and Patriarchy:
  • Within religious circles, especially Christianity, intense focus on relationships remains due to cultural and doctrinal legacy.

  "Our obsession sometimes with men ... is what we're saying needs to be decentered." (Courtney, 38:19)

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5. Accountability and Men’s Evolving Role

• Normalization of Men’s Bad Behavior (41:05–52:05):

  • Frequent online stories expose men’s poor conduct in relationships, catalyzing a call for accountability rather than automatic reverence.
  • Society still enables “badly behaved men,” while women are swiftly marginalized for transgressions.

  "Let’s actually hold men accountable for their bad behavior because y’all been ... not a day goes by [without a story]." (Renée, 49:47)

  "A huge part of society's structure is in letting men get away with this stuff. ... Bad men still end up with the girls. They still end up with the women." (Courtney, 50:19)

• Women as Upkeepers of Patriarchy:

  • Both criticize women who, knowingly or not, “reward” men’s bad behavior, perpetuating cycles.

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6. Celebration, Milestones, and Friendship Dynamics (62:16–74:01)

• Is Love Less Worthy of Celebration?
  • Some single women push back, feeling that society over-celebrates engagements, weddings, and babies, creating hierarchy among women.
  • The hosts advocate for diversifying what we celebrate—career wins, personal achievements—beyond romantic milestones.

  "We don't celebrate women if the celebration is not attached to a man. So if we change our culture of celebration, we will change the culture in general." (Courtney, 69:24)

• Friendship Must Transcend Relationship Status:
  • True sisterhood centers women as whole people, not just through romantic developments.

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7. Reframing “Decentering Men”: What Does It Actually Mean? (74:01–End)

• Main Takeaways:

  • It's not “anti-men”—it’s pro-women, pro-individuality.
  • Continuity: Women (even those in relationships) must retain activities, passions, and identity outside of their partners.

  "We want you to still be you and love you outside of him. We want to see you look nice. ... All the things you were doing before." (Courtney, 75:44)

  • Both Courtney and Renée stress the importance of having a life, hobbies, and self-concept that doesn’t revolve around a man—even in marriage.

  "No man is just the sum total of their relationship. When he goes for interviews, they're not asking about you, babe. ... What are your hobbies? ... You, you, you." (Courtney, 77:26)

• Consumerism & Validation (78:03–81:51):

  • Critique of beauty and self-care products pitched as “for men’s attention,” with calls for new narratives centered on self-worth.

  "Why can’t it be: This scent smells like freedom. This scent smells like gender equality. This scent smells like you getting the keys to your first property and stepping in like the girl you are." (Courtney, 81:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the shifting value of relationships:

  "Having a boyfriend is nice, but it's nice because I wanted it, not because he's picked me." (Courtney, 29:15)

• On accountability in relationships:

  "If I'm going to claim you as a woman, you better not embarrass me." (Renée, 46:53)

• On societal structure:

  "Badly behaved women are marginalized ... There doesn't seem to be that kind of consequence for badly behaved men." (Courtney, 51:06)

• On diversifying celebrations:

  "The only time you've heard, when I got engaged ... milestones after milestones ... I never heard congratulations until I post the picture of a ring." (Courtney, 67:21)

• On fragrance and validation:

  "This scent smells like gender equality ... that's what I want. You are that girl. Ain't nobody like you." (Courtney, 81:02)

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Important Timestamps

• Listener Dilemma Discussion: 10:27–23:32
• Breakdown of Vogue Article Debate: 25:52–40:24
• Historical Context & Patriarchy: 34:24–43:23
• Call for Men’s Accountability: 46:53–52:05
• Women Enabling Patriarchy/Parenting Boys: 55:33–59:00
• Friendship Dynamics & Celebration: 62:16–74:01
• Personal Identity Beyond Relationships: 74:01–81:51
• Consumerism, Self-Worth and Humor: 78:03–81:51

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Episode Tone & Takeaway

The episode is characteristically warm, humorous, and candid—Courtney and Renée combine serious critique with playful banter and everyday examples. Their central message is clear: decentering men is about centering yourself as a woman, cultivating a rich, multidimensional life, and supporting other women’s full growth—regardless of relationship status. Celebration, identity, and joy need not be tied to romance.

Final Thought:

“We are for the girls, period. ... This is for women, by women, for women's advancement.” (Courtney, 83:12)

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Transcript

[A]

Parle tu francais? Hablas espanol? Par l'? Italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply. We built a school in Ghana. Like, you guys really came through for this sisterhood. And we've done bits as a podcast in just five years. This podcast has literally reached millions of people and we couldn't have done that without you.

[B]

So five years we're going to be talking about whether it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend. Yes, yes, yes.

[A]

You are. Your relationship status, your womanhood is validated by a man validating it by picking you.

[B]

The embarrassing thing that things that men do as well in of itself needs.

[A]

To be highlighted if you are monogamous. We've come to discover a lot of people aren't.

[B]

Let's actually hold men accountable for their bad behavior because y' all being the.

[A]

Amount of girls that I've had to tell, like, like, calm down. Yeah, just because he likes your message or likes your comment, he doesn't want to marry you.

[B]

I'm pulling up to find every single deadbeat absentee father because what are you doing? Everybody's just shouting.

[A]

Hello and welcome to the two My Sisters podcast. I'm Courtney.

[B]

And I'm Renee. And we are your online sisters and hosts of the 2 My Sisters podcast podcast.

[A]

We are all about promoting the wellness, growth and development of a community of sisters around the world.

[B]

And in today's podcast episode, we're going to be talking about whether it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend. Yes. Yes, yes. Inspired by the phenomenal British Vogue article that was written by none other than Shantae Joseph. Shout out to you, girl, because you have been killing it in the journalism streets for a whole minute as well. So we really want to give you your flowers for that. But it's actually sparked ablaze on the Internet as to whether men in general, especially our romantic. The romantic kind, are embarrassing us on the Internet. So we'll be having a real exciting, deep dive into that conversation and more. But before we do that, do we have Any housekeeping announcements?

[A]

Housekeeping announcements? Well, we went to the GUAC Gala. Oh, wow. What a fabulous, fabulous, fabulous E evening. If you don't know, we were nominated for podcast online show of the year. And it was such a wonderful night. Shout out to the 90s, baby show. Shout out to the boys. They won in our category, but we were up in such a phenomenal category with such phenomenal podcasters and show hosts. Just an amazing night. Shout out to the GUAP Mag team. Because it was such a wonderful night at the National History Museum, I think. Well, the Natural History Museum, I think. What so, so interesting about events like this is there's often a lot of commentary, but I think we need to remember that this is only the third GUAP Gala.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

And they did such an amazing job to bring together creatives, Black British creators, especially, to celebrate them in this scene, supported by asos. Like, it's such a big deal. It's such a big deal for the culture. So it's an honor to be nominated, an honor to be a part of the night, truly. And in order to actually see it unfold at some point, such an iconic place, like, it was so wonderful. Like, I just kept looking around at this, the magnitude of it all, and I was just like, wow. I'm actually so proud of them. Like having seen kind of a lot of the GUAP Mag journey, just being like, wow, honestly, this thing, if you have a creative dream, ride it out. I feel like the GUAP team are a perfect depiction of that. So it was a wonderful night of excellence, fashion, creativity. The people them showed up and showed.

[B]

Out, they loved it.

[A]

So that was one wonderful. Any other housekeeping on my end? I just want to say, actually this is not necessarily a TMS specific announcement, but there's a lot happening in the world right now in regards to fighting for women's rights. And I want to say, because we are a global sisterhood, I wanted to give a really big shout out and raise a lot of awareness to the sisters in Nigeria and the sisters in South Africa, because right now there's a lot of campaigning and just awareness being raised around a specific case or of child molestation and assault, which is the situation with Ochanya. So justice for Ochanya and all the girls in Nigeria who are backing all of this fight, please continue to do it. If you can raise awareness, if you can donate to the family, if you can actually like protest, lobby, sign a petition, whatever it may be, please just search justice, justice for Achanya and Chime in to support our sisters in Nigeria, but also South Africa. You guys are also doing your own towards fighting against gender based violence, especially femicide, and just raising awareness around that. So, yeah, if you can support the girls, support the girls. Because a lot of people are doing a lot of fighting for women's rights right now. I think it's Women for Change who are really, like, spearheading this movement currently happening in South Africa. But if you can do anything to just search, search, do your research and support in any way, especially by raising awareness so that we can change a lot of what's happening socially, especially towards women and girls, please, please, please do so. Yeah, I just wanted to raise awareness because, you know, we're a sisterhood and sometimes it's not all dating and men, sometimes it's real, real issues, real issues that are plaguing the earth. Good morning. Real issues. Shout out to the girl them.

[B]

No, I appreciate that. Thank you for sharing that, Courtney. And as Courtney mentioned, please, guys, let's get behind our sisters. This is a global system. It would be remiss of us to not mention some of the issues that are facing women across the world right now. So thank you for that court.

[A]

No stress, no stress.

[B]

Do we have any more housekeeping announcements? Is the house swept?

[A]

We turned five as a podcast. As a podcast and a community. We are officially five years old. Yes. Five years ago. Can you imagine on the 8th of November, literally 2020, something landed in the atmosphere, called to my sisters. You know, when something hits.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Spawned in the world, my sisters, literally. We dropped our first episode of this podcast and our lives have changed since, like in general, just the support this community, the women that we've been able to meet from literally everywhere in the world who support this podcast, who are championing sisterhood. The amount of people who have had female friendships cultivated just off of the back of conversations we've had our book. It's just been so many things. So in just five years, God's been able to do a madness with this platform. And yeah, we're really, really grateful. Thank you for all your support and just thank God that we've been able to do this journey, man. Like especially giving birth to something in the pandemic. Only God knew how the world was going to change and how, like, how much people would need a message of friendship and sisterhood and just being a girl who's trying to navigate the world and literally glow and grow in every area of her life, but how much support that that requires. So it's just been nice to have created this kind of space for the girls, to be able to do that, like, actually to support them. I mean, what have we not done in the last five years, like, retreat? We've written a book. Like, we have gone live events, sold out, Hackney, Empire, traveled to. Like, we've been to America, we've been South Africa. We've been to so many different places. We have made friends. Like, we've actually made friends. Made so many friends. We've made friends. I don't think there's many places we could go to the world and not have a friend. We've made so many friends. We've worked with so many incredible people. And I think it's also seeing the growth of the women we've had the privilege of working with on this journey. We've interviewed some amazing guests.

[B]

Really cool people.

[A]

Really cool guests. We built a school in Ghana. Like, you guys really came through for this sisterhood. And we've done bits as a podcast in just five years. And five years isn't that long.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And we've evolved so much as people, as entrepreneurs, as friends. Like, we've just evolved so much. So thank you for the growth, man. Thank you for the growth. This podcast has literally reached millions of people and we couldn't have done that without you. So five years. Many more to come.

[B]

Many more to come.

[A]

Many more to come.

[B]

And if you're feeling particularly generous, I know that people typically do this on their birthday. We'll put our Monza link below so that if you want to gift us five pounds for. Or five dollars or five of whatever currency that you have, preferably it would be GBP dollar closely followed after that. But ideally gbp, if you could convert it because it would be more, that would be great. If you. If you would like to donate to our Monte, we'll put that down below. But if you are not particularly feeling philanthropic towards us individually, you can at least continue to donate to our school in Ghana and you can continue to support with the Bright School Academy, so. Oh, the bright future. Yeah, guys, sorry. As we're recording this, I'm very hungry and I'm praying that you're not hearing the. That I'm hearing right now as we're speaking into the microphone, or hopefully they can tinker with the sound. Small, small. So you're not hearing this apocalyptic noise in the background while we move. But yes, please, please support us and continue to do it. That would be very, very helpful.

[A]

What a time. What a time. But, yes, I think that is actually everything.

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think so.

[A]

Yeah, probably. If there's more, you'll see it. Please comment or something somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, we swept the house. You know, sometimes you sweep and there's still some areas, you know. It's a work in progress. So before we do get into the meat and bones of the conversation, would it be a TMS podcast if we didn't start with a ding ding ding dilemma? Let us get.

[A]

So.

[B]

Hey sisters, I wanted to start by thanking you for running this podcast. I have listened for some time now and I always find your advice so helpful. My dilemma is I am a 19 year old girl turning 20 soon and have never been approached by a man. I sometimes worry that I will never settle down and find love. Is this a normal experience or do I need to decenter men in my life? Also, how do I navigate my want for dating? If I would like to talk to people but I do not want to approach men and seem like a boy Hungry Beck.

[A]

Interesting. This is a good dilemma. It's a good dilemma. So I think the issue here isn't necessarily about decentering men per se. Yeah, I think number one, it's very normal to want to be desired. I think it's very normal to, especially if you are attracted to someone or tracked if you're attracted to whoever. You know, it's normal, not weird to want that person to desire you back or to desire companionship or to be attracted to or whatever. Nobody, nobody doesn't want no back. Ah, it's okay, you know, it's fine. It's actually okay. It's okay to want to be desired. The issue here is not necessarily that, oh, you haven't been approached and now you're just thinking, oh, when will I be approached? When will I be approached? And you're letting that get you down. I think one, it is very normal to be 19 years old and to have not really been approached by very normal. It's very normal. I think. Don't let society fool you into thinking that, oh, girls are just every girl is out here just refusing proposals every single day, oh my God, why did the men want me? It's not like that genuinely. I think it's very normal to have. I remember being in Unique and quite a few of my like uni friends were just like raw. Like I've never had a boyfriend, I've never had sex, I've never really gone on a date, I've never really had a talking stage and like there would always be this thing of oh my gosh, like is there a problem with me and just deeping at that point, especially now that that was like 10 years ago. Looking back, we were so young. Like so many of our roads in life maybe didn't put us in front of men like that. Like we went to an all girls school, for example. There weren't that many men around. Now there were girls in our or girls school who had a lot of boy options. But then there were also girls of the very similar age who had never even spoken to a boy and maybe would have even found that scary. Do you get what I mean? We're all different and we're all on different timelines. And I think whether you're 19, 39, whatever, everybody's story is very, very different. And it's, it can never be diagnosed as, oh, there must be something so, so wrong here. Especially at 19 years old. So 1920, yeah, 1920, I believe. 1920. No, girl, take the edge off. It's okay. Now, in terms of actually wanting a partner, like I said, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be desired. Especially if you are somebody who is attracted to people. You want them to be attracted to you back. I think the issue here is don't let that ruin your life. Essentially, don't let that cause your day to turn sour or give you a bad day at the end of the day, somebody's gonna want you one day. By God's grace. As you get older, you'll experience different opportunities to meet new people, talk to new people, find new love interests, maybe even God forbid, but get your heart broken, find your perfect love, whatever it is. Life is full of so many chapters. Oh, baby, you have so many experiences in store for you. Don't rush into it and don't think that because it happened, it has not happened. Now it will never happen. It will happen. So I would just say, calm down, calm down, don't rush. There's nothing wrong with you now in terms of not going around looking like a beg. The only way you can look like a beggar is if you're going around begging. Don't go around begging.

[B]

Don't be begging nobody.

[A]

Don't be desperate. Don't go around thinking, oh, because it hasn't happened, I now need to manufacture it in my life. I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned in my twenties is let things happen naturally. Oftentimes when we think that something isn't happening in a time where we feel like we'd be most comfortable. Okay, nobody's talked to me in a romantic way at the age of 19 what that can do is kick us into panic mode. And when we start to panic, we start to make really poor decisions because we're operating from a place of desperation. And I think operating from a place of desperation when there is no need for you to be desperate at 19, baby girl, it's gonna ruin your life. It's gonna ruin your life. You're gonna entertain so many things which you don't need to entertain. So if you don't wanna come across as bad beggy, don't beg. Don't go around being desperate for anything which isn't coming naturally to you or because you feel like, oh, it's not happening, I need to force it to happen. Don't force anything. So I think you have to learn the art of enjoying where you are, enjoying where you are, exploring more of who you are as well and developing at the age of 19. There are so many other things you can be focused on in life. To be fair, at any age, as a woman, there are so many other things you could be focused on in life that this part of you doesn't necessarily need to overt your entire mind.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I would just say, yes, decenter men in some kind of way in terms of decenter their validation from your appreciation for your life. You don't need a man validating you, validating your beauty, validating that you're a great woman by the fact that they like you to actually appreciate the life that you have. Right. You can desire it, but desiring something doesn't necessarily mean that you need to be focused, hyper fixated on it all the time. It's okay. It's one aspect that you desire, committed to the Lord in prayer. If you're that type of girl, if you're not, journal about, I don't know what you do, but just make a note that this is something that I want and then move from there, move and focus on something else accordingly. I think a lot of people are balancing that whole, I want someone, but I don't want to be the one to make it happen. So then all you can do is wait. All you can do is wait and continue to. And when I say wait, I don't mean wait around idly twiddling your thumbs or all you can do is go about living your life and wait for that thing to come into your life at its perfect time. And if it doesn't, at least you can look back and said, I still lived a full life, you know, and it just, that part didn't cross into my story. And so, yeah, that's how. That's how I'd say it, baby. You need to focus on other stuff. Just focus on other stuff. And maybe, yes, decenter men, not from your entire life because it's something that you desire. Just because you dissenter men doesn't mean you have to discard of your desires. You can still desire a man, but not put them at the center. Center put men and their validation at the center. And the last thing I'll say is, if you are monogamous, we've come to discover a lot of people aren't. But if you are looking for a monogamous relationship, like a very conventional kind of heterosexual relationship, it's only going to take one man. It's only going to take one man. And so when we're saying decenter men, what we're saying is decenter. Maybe your obsession or your preoccupation with this entire group of this gender, like, and their thoughts and what culture tells you they want and what they don't want and their desires and what they accept and don't like. Just decenter all of that from your life and live your life as an individual till you meet your one. That's literally it. So you can still have a desire, but decenter, this big category of men and what society tells us that ensues from your life because it puts unnecessary pressure on you. I remember being around that age and it's like you're thinking about boys, so you're thinking, okay, that should govern my hairstyle. That should govern the clothes that I wear. This should govern where I go, where I don't go, what I say, what I don't say. And now all of a sudden, your entire becoming as a woman is dictated by what men supposedly want and don't want. And this is a very pivotal time, I think, in girlhood, Womanhood, where it's very easy for that to become your entire story. Yeah, I didn't make the most of my 20s because at the beginning of my 20s, I oriented my life around what I thought a man would want because I deeply desired one. Don't make that your story. Don't make that your story. So that's what I would say. How about yourself?

[B]

I think you answered that wonderfully, friend. Honestly, there's very. There's hardly anything that I would add to that. I think you captured beautifully the importance of the balancing act.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like you don't want to have your entire life preoccupied by a man or the desire for man. But I think especially with where we're Currently going, it can feel like, oh, liking a man is embarrassing. And I think it's. It's very interesting and I think very fitting for the topic of discussion that we're literally about to have. It's okay to want a man, sis. You know, men are, they're cute, you know, they can be nice sometimes. And you know, God sees the desires of our hearts. He put it there. But as you mentioned, I think it's important for us to not hyper fixate on the desire to have a man so much that it governs everything that we do. And I think as women that we are definitely not at the end of our journeys, but have worked through so much of our life. We can tell you there's a lot of life. There is a lot of life to be had. You are still, and I don't mean this in a patronizing or condescending way, but there is so much to life right now, especially where you're currently at. This is a prime time to develop relationships with other people as well. Your friends, obviously. This is a sisterhood. So where's your friendships right now? Are you really like putting in the work and you're really investing in those friendships? There are a whole bunch of people that we've known since 1920 and even before that that we were putting in the work at your current age and stage. So think about that as well. What are the other relationships and the other things in your life that you might actually want to put some energy towards as well? Thinking about your family relationships as well. Where are the areas that you can start to start sowing seeds, Start watering the can there as well. I think in terms of not coming across as a bag, like Courtney said, don't be begging, girl. Don't be outside. Don't be outside wearing certain items. Don't be following these social media trends on like, look smack scene or like trying to be that girl because you want a man. Oftentimes we attract people or the right kinds of people for us once we are actually our true and authentic self. So really it should be about you and how you are becoming the best version of yourself for yourself. Right? Like really thinking about, okay, what are some of the goals that I have? What are some of the things that I should be doing with my life right now? What are the things that I can actually, you know, experiment with? Where are some of my interests and passions like actually developing as an individual? And that is a very helpful safeguard against hyper fixating on boys, like actually having a personality, actually being a human. No, because for real. The issue with a lot of people that make finding men and boys their whole personalities, they don't have one outside of that. So in order to safeguard against that, girl, develop your passions, your hobbies, like do things that bring you joy, you know, spend time with people that you care about. And all of these things will help to create a full and fulfilling life such that when you do, you know, the right guy comes along, he will slot into a full and fulfilling life. It won't be something that you need, but very much something that is a great addition to a very, very full and lived out life. So really try and focus on some of those different things. You're still very young, so it's, it's a great time to explore. Girl. Hey, travel, Omar, start thinking about, you will never get these years back. And it's so, so important that you live. Don't be out, don't be outside and doing all sorts of jellies. But if you do, hey, you know, you can come back from it, but really explore, experiment. This is the time for you to really, like, think about the kind of person that you want to be in the next five, 10 years and take the risks now. And I think in terms of like not begging but also putting yourself out there, I think sometimes we can also fall into the trap of I'm just going to be indoors until Mr. Right comes along. You don't want to be waiting. You don't want to put your life on hold because you are waiting. Or that in of itself is still a form of pick me ism. You're just trying to be waiting inside for somebody to come and pick you up and then you know, you're ready for marriage and all that kind of stuff. Go outside, go. And again, pursue your interests, pursue your hobbies, do things that bring you joy. And the right one was slotting. So yeah, that's what I would say, sis. But I would love to hear what some of the sisters of the sisterhood would have to say, sisters of all ages as well, because I think it can be very easy for us to obviously share from our perspective. I would love to hear sisters that are younger. What is your experience of, you know, trying not to be boy crazy or boy centered? What's happening in dating streets right now? Sisters that are our age, sisters that are older. We love to hear your thoughts on how do we live a fulfilling and exciting life that is not beggy for the Bandem, but still full and fulfilling. And if you've got some tips for our good sis, please Drop it like it's hot in the comment section below. You can comment on Spotify, you can comment on YouTube, wherever makes you feel comfortable. But let's help a sister out together as a community.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

But segwaying on to the meat and bones of the conversation. I think it's actually such a brilliant segue to dilemma, literally this conversation topic, which is, again, is it embarrassing to have a boyfriend now?

[A]

Yeah. Is it embarrassing to have a boyfriend now?

[B]

So, just to set the scene for those of you that may not be as chronically online as the rest of us on the TikToks and the Instagrams and whatnot. So as we mentioned at the beginning of this episode, the wonderful writer, journalist, speaker, the wonderful everything Shantay wrote an article for British Vogue titled is it embarrassing to have a Boyfriend? And I, it, I believe it set the Internet on fire because we had a lot of obviously content creators that were commenting on it. We had a lot of people that were talking about a lot of adjacent topics. Patriarchy, proximity to men, all of the, like, you know, it's giving Gen Z women. We're coming and we're taking a stand against some of these men. But I wanted to start really with. What's really interesting is we actually had a little bit of this conversation in our community. We do our community lives. If you're not part of the sisterhood, our digital sisterhood. The details to join that are below in the description. But also join the mailing list because it's pretty much there every weekend. I don't want to have to keep embarrassing you like, we are a sisterhood now, sis. But if you're not on the mailing list at this point, are we really sisters? Like, do we have to question, do we have to go to therapy together? We'll talk about it, but join the mailing list so that you don't miss the drops. But we did have a kind of a starter. Yeah, starter for 10 where we spoke about things like proximity to men. We spoke about things like the narratives that we are seeing on relationships right now online and how much that has colored our opinions and our thoughts around romantic relationships with men. So I guess I really wanted to start with your personal opinion, Courtney, on the article, the way that it's trended right now, why this has actually caused such an uproar. Because I think it's always indicative of where popular sentiment is when obviously things are popular. You know, what's poppin? Why is everyone commenting on this? Why do you think this really struck a nerve for a lot of women.

[A]

Oh, that's a good question. I think first of all, like, Shantae did a really good job in encapsulating a very short article, what a lot of people are kind of feeling but don't know how to say. So she was talking about in the article, she was listening to a podcast and literally these two podcast hosts who both have boyfriends were discussing whether it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend now. And I think for a lot of women there's been this kind of shift that they can sense, whether it be in themselves or online, where a girl gets a boyfriend and either she's like very particular about hiding the boyfriend in a type of way, or he's just not a focal part of her content. And I think what's interesting about it is it's very different to how content used to be 10 years ago, even five years ago, where a girl or a woman would get into a relationship and this is the main part of her brand. Like she's married now or she has a man now and that's. That's her. That's, you know, it's. And it doesn't have to play out in a very on the nose way, but it can play out in Southwell where it's get ready with me for date night vacation vlog, but all these kind of things, right? But nowadays it's more subtle. It's like, oh, yeah, like, of course I didn't take this picture of myself in a restaurant. Someone took it off me. You don't need to know who it is.

[B]

It's the hand or the watch or.

[A]

Even if there's no hand, it's just a picture of her. And it's just like, well, who took this picture? Yeah, you know, I mean, it's just like, we won't ever need to know. You know, we won't ever need to know. And I think what's so wonderful about that is seeing a lot of people embrace that change and that not trend, but like, when I say trend, I mean more so like statistically, like that sway in culture where it's like, oh, people aren't as bothered with your relationship status per se. They're not as bothered with this man now becoming a focal point of your content. They just want you and actually to take the trend to the further end. Displaying him too much is actually a bit of an icky situation now because it suggests some things about the woman or it just turns off the audience, which is following you for you because they feel like now it's like you're a two package deal, and they don't want that. Right. So I think what's. What drew the Internet into uproar was there are different schools of thought in response to that one. Well, so many different. One, there's men who are like, only a bitter single woman could write this, you know, and so many people. And I really despise when this thing happened because it's when men. That's when men show their bums. They really were like, oh, you must not have a great relationship with your dad. You must be single and bitter. Oh, my God. And like, Shantae has displayed publicly that she has one of the best relationships with her father that a daughter could ever have. And she never said anything about men being subpar. All she suggested was, you're just not as important as you used to be. And I think that's a core part of the conversation. A boyfriend is not as impressive as it used to be because we're coming from a place socially where women are. Have been taught through repetitive imagery, through subliminal and sometimes very conscious and obvious messaging that, listen, you are the value of your relationship. Hello, you are your relationship status. Your womanhood is validated by a man validating it by picking you, by selecting to be with you, by showing the world, oh, I've picked this woman. And that validates the fact that she's beautiful, she's worthy of being picked and wanted in society. We're coming from centuries of that messaging into an era where women are like, having a boyfriend is nice, but it's nice because I wanted it, not because he's picked me. And so seeing men more so as an accessory to life versus a central pillar to life is such a powerful and, dare I say, important message for women because it also teaches us that the be on end or of your value as a woman does not rise and fall based on your relationship status.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which also means that it takes the power out of a man's hands to make you will break you. You are not this man's asset. You are your own person as an individual. And we've come from, whether it be harmful or sometimes harmlessly, people give advice to women based on, you know, you really want a relationship, you really want a man. And why the. A lot of us come from cultural backgrounds and are coming from historical backgrounds where it's like, oh, it's because it gives me access to something. And also it is the security that I need in this world. And I think what's so Wonderful is men had to come to a bit of a red light to see you no longer hold as much power socially as you used to. Right. Like, I don't need you to have. Have access to a lot of financial growth now. This is not talking about partnership. Partnership is really powerful. But understanding that partnership can come in different ways now. But on a fundamental level, I don't need a man to have access to finances to keep me living.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

I don't need a dad, per se. I don't need a husband. I don't need a boyfriend. I can survive by myself. So now men are seeing that you're no longer a necessity. You are an accessory. And that ruffles men the wrong way. That ruffles men the wrong way.

[B]

That was good.

[A]

Then you see another school of sort rise up from women, our patriarchy princesses who are like, how dare you? I love my boyfriend. I would never hide my boyfriend. My boyfriend means the world to me. Oh, my God. How can it be about if I.

[B]

What?

[A]

This is my point of pride. He is my. This is me and my boyfriend here, sister.

[B]

Thanks, girl. Sister.

[A]

Nobody has put pepper in your Nash. No one is. Nobody is chasing you. Nobody is chasing you to grab you. Nobody. No one is chasing you. Sit down and relax. What the article did not say. Jesus. Is that it is fundamentally. First of all, I think what needs to be acknowledged is basic comprehension skills. That the title of this article is a question. Is it embarrassing to. Is it embarrassing to have a boyfriend now? And within the article itself, she details that more so it is the obsession with relationships which is embarrassing. The obsession with the display, the obsession with making this a core part of your entire personality. She also brought up, not herself, but a lot of other people brought up an example of, like, when women become mothers, their favorite content creators become mothers, or their friends become mothers, or women around them become mothers. And it seems like their motherhood becomes not just a huge part of their personality, but the hugest part of their personality. They are no longer the person they were before. That person is dead and gone. They are now a mother. Do you know what I mean? And everything they share has to do with that. That now I think there's. And we'll probably get into the nuances of like this, because I think there's a flip side of it, which is dangerous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But as much as this is a huge milestone in your life, it doesn't necessarily need to. I'm not talking about motherhood. I'm talking more so about the boyfriend relationship. As much as it's a huge milestone in your life to have be in a relationship now, to get engaged, to get married, whatever it might be, it doesn't have to become the be and end all of who you are as a woman. And that's all she's fighting. I think a lot of women who maybe have bought into the narrative of your boyfriend or having a man in your life is a huge part of what makes you a woman become disappointed when they're now told something that they have spent yeah. So much of their time and energy and identity on is no longer worth what it used to be worth. If you've worked your ass off to get a bar of gold only for the next day after you got it, somebody to tell you that gold is only worth 2 pence now you're going to be angry too. You are going to be angry too. So I think with the chain, with the trend shift, there's been a change in the value of having a boyfriend. The relationship status, not the man. Because this isn't missandry. Like, this isn't us hating or men simple are saying that men are. Are invaluable. We are both married. Like, we know that the men we have are valuable to us. Sorry.

[B]

I love that disclaimer every time she's like, just so you know, the man.

[A]

We have are valuable to us and our lives. But in general, men don't hold the same currency and value that they used to have in that if you throw back to 50, 60 years ago without having a man as a husband, you couldn't have a bank account. Literally, you couldn't be on a mortgage. That's currency.

[B]

That's.

[A]

I will marry. I don't care who the hell you are if you marry me. I'm just, I'm clear. I mean, that's, that's, that's what, that's all I'm in it for, really.

[B]

Sprinkle, sprinkles.

[A]

That's what's keeping me here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not. Not to say love wasn't involved, but it was a way more of a strategic move. It was way more of a social play. I need a husband to be able to navigate through society. There are still communities where if you are not married, you don't have a say so in certain situations and especially financial moves. So that. But the fact that we live in a world and we live in a society where men don't hold that value anymore. If you've grown up hearing that or feeding into those messages, of course you'd be angry that someone is telling you that this thing that once hold so. Held so much social weight which you have managed to possess, is no longer worth what it used to be worth. Yeah. You would be outraged. Do you get what I mean? So there's that group. Then there's also the group of women who are like, yeah, I have a boyfriend and he is not the core part of my life. I am the main character in my story.

[B]

Point blank, period, baby.

[A]

And I think that's such a beautiful shift in culture to see women be like, yes, my husband is amazing. My boyfriend is amazing. But he is a side character in my story. This story is still about me, not a sim npc. And he's amazing and I value him, but I don't need him to be a core part of me displaying to the world who I am.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can still have hobbies. I can still pursue other aspirations outside of wifehood and motherhood and all of these things. I can just be a person. I can just be me. I think that's such a beautiful thing to see. And then there is the other far side of things. Women are like, yeah, throw all men in the bin. Well, But as much as you may think it's embarrassing to have a boyfriend now, a lot of people still want a boyfriend. Hence the dilemma. Do you get what I mean? So I think the. The important thing is not to shift too far to the other end of the spectrum.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's like, even wanting a boyfriend is embarrassing. No, not necessarily. I think when I saw this article. Sorry to have gone off. No, but there's articles. I've literally.

[B]

It's been. We've been. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

This article was so amazing. I think it triggered so many conversations. Because I was thinking, it's very different, though, in the Christian space. If you're a Christian girly or a religious girly. It's very different. Right. Like, it's still a point of kind of obsession for a lot of girls. And I think that's a great way. Somebody left a comment under our last. Our episode two episodes ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where we were talking about, like, why are Christian husbands embarrassing their wives now? And somebody commented, like, it's amazing when we have conversations around how patriarchy leaks into religion. Right. Because a lot of us are believers of very patriarchal religions by culture. And so I think to myself, okay, this is a way that we see patriarchy bleeding. And I think it's a great opportunity to have a conversation about why are we so obsessed with relationships in religious context?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not because they're not important. We believe that there's a different. We have a different perspective. Perspective on relationships. Right. Because it's something that is full of sanctity and very akin to divinity. Like it's, it's, it has a whole different way, a whole different meaning. But it has manifested in a lot of interesting dating culture within religious circles. I'll talk for Christianity because that's our faith.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like within the Christian girlies, our obsession sometimes with men. Oh my God. He looks at me like this. He must like me. Oh my God. He, he dropped me home. He must like me too much. Whoa.

[B]

Not too much.

[A]

Now that kind of obsession is what we're saying needs to be decented. I can't count on my hands and my feet. I cannot count. It's immeasurable. The amount of girls that I've had to tell. Like, calm down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just because he liked your message or liked your comment, he doesn't want to marry you. Let's waste wait for him to actually prove himself worthy before we start fantasizing. Because that's a great way of seeing that we have centralized men in our lives and our experiences as Christian girls and women. And I just think to myself, as much as we can think that articles like this can go too far, which anything can go too far, they do highlight to us cultural shit shifts that every single pocket of society needs to engage with and discuss. Because really and truly, is it beneficial to anyone to center any other person, external person, so sent like so greatly in their story, in their self worth, in their sense of value. Like it's not beneficial.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And women are noticing. It's not beneficial.

[B]

It's not helping anybody at all.

[A]

It's not beneficial to me to have, have a man be the defining factor of my worth as a woman. And so that's why it's caused such an uproar. You have all these people and there are various schools of thought outside of the four that I've stated. But like there are, there are so many people who have so many different opinions. Because it triggers something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it points at a huge shift in the tides of culture. Like I, I know it's just a Vogue article. Not just like it's a big achievement, but it's a Vogue article. Right. But I think it displays something so much bigger in women's hearts, which is I am more than my relationship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how does that make you feel?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How does that make you feel? How does that make men feel? How does that make men and women behave in, you know, these heterosexual relationships. But why do you think it's got so many people up?

[B]

Oh, first of all, Dr. Courtney, checking in, like, actually, if you are a university right now and you are handing out honorary doctorates, I'll even study for it, really, for like maybe a month or two. If you could fast track the process. That was such an astute and comprehensive breakdown of the different. Even the fact you called them schools of thought.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Different groups, different ideologies.

[A]

There you go. Different ideologies.

[B]

Different ideologies. No, I think that you articulated yourself, yourself perfectly there. That was really beautiful to listen to, needless to say, but important to say. I completely agree. I think first of all, it's a big trigger because I think time and time again, whenever we talk about the decentering of men, I think people don't realize just how much of a factor patriarchy has been. How much of a grip.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That patriarchy has had in our culture, but also in religious spaces, literally in the very fabric of society. Patriarchy, like patriarchy was the dinosaur from.

[A]

Way back, way back. Oh.

[B]

That they decided, oh, my goodness, this is the rock, the bedrock on which we are going to build literally everything. And so it's been interesting that this has happened in tandem with a lot of prevailing narratives around decentering men. A lot of women are doing the work of, oh, sugar. Literally everything that I do and, like, the way that I navigate society has been so impacted by patriarchy that, like, there's parts of my identity that I need to figure out. There's things that I'm seeing that is changing my mind. I think what's also been interesting with the, you know, is having a boyfriend embarrassing article is online seeing, sadly, the demise of popular relationships or popular bloggers or seeing that, oh, you know, relationships are not a bed of roses. I think especially even on things like tick tock.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We're seeing, you know, the 10 part series of, like, you know, why did I get married? We're seeing the 10 part series of the breakdowns of so many relationships that we would idolize. Right. And I think it's people taking a slice of like humble pie and being realistic about the fact that it is not a good idea to center a man in your life. It is not. It is not a good idea to center anything in your life, but it is absolutely not a good idea to center a man in your life because this is something that can easily become unfixed. And I love what you mentioned in terms of the historical background of things. Right. Realistically and when I think about a lot of the relationships of previous generations. Right. You know, why did grandma stay as long as she did, as far as she did? It wasn't just about her being unintelligent. A lot of women from previous generations that endured their relationships had to.

[A]

Facts.

[B]

They had to. In terms of keeping their family unit together and, you know, surviving under certain circumstances. A lot of them picked the most strategic option, which was to remain in that relationship, because it afforded them. The keyword that you use was access. A lot of us were not able to access things that were so, so important to our liberty and freedom. And now that's not the case. Yeah, I can get a house if I want to. I can retire if I want to. I can earn a boatloads amount of money if I wanted to. I can access these places if I wanted to. I am no longer. My actual practical access to a lot of resources is now not contingent on my proximity to a man. And I think that it's important that women have that freedom because it means that we are no longer making decisions, romantic decisions, based on the bare essentials, like the bare minimum of actually being able to live. And I think that narrative coming out has been beautiful and necessary because we are not just who we decide to lay in bed with. We are not just our romantic relationship. And I love what you were saying around, like, like the importance of having a life outside. Like, it's nice. It's actually really nice to have a partner. It's nice to. Men are great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, men are great, but men are fallible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And men can be problematic, as we have seen again and again. And I think part of the trigger has come as a result of seeing so many narratives of, or not even narratives, so many realities that people are facing of, you know, men are problematic too. Like, they're so problematic. Eggs. Egg. Not a day on this app. Listen. Not a day on this app goes by without somebody now coming forward and saying, oh, this is my boyfriend, sis. I'm coming to you as a woman to tell you that so. And so your man is doing xyz. Xyz. And we're definitely going to touch a little bit on privacy, secrecy, because I think that has also entered the conversation right around why people may feel a bit uncomfortable, you know, actually sharing or disclosing, oh, you know, I have a boyfriend. Beyond the not wanting to alienate people. But I think it has been very funny and interesting to see that, you know, oh, actually it's not just the fact that you Know, having a boyfriend is embarrassing, but I think sometimes the embarrassing thing that things that men do as well in of itself needs to be highlighted and they need to be held accountable for their tomfoolery and bad behavior that I think the, the privilege of having a man has covered for so long. Right. Men have been behaving badly. And I don't mean this to. Obviously we have to do the disclaimers of like, you know, not all men and all that kind. Not all men, but why is it always men? Yeah. In that there's been very poor character traits that a lot of men have been able to continue because they haven't been held accountable, because they've been seen and purported as the prize, because they have access to resources that women need. And so I think this article has come at the cascade of the dominoes falling and both women and men realizing, men, you actually need to step up. If I'm going to claim you as a woman, you better not embarrass me. If I'm going to claim you as a woman, you better be faithful. If I'm going to claim you as a woman, you better be. You better have good character. And I think I've loved that that has been part and parcel of this conversation. Men need to do better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I hate to say it, but I also love to say it because it's important. Men actually need to do better. And it's not just. It's not just women that have to be part of that conversation. Obviously men do too. And I haven't seen too many responses from men, per se. I've seen a lot of the content kind of being shared and talked about, mostly from women. Maybe that's just like my algorithm.

[A]

I did see a man respond to it. Really? Yeah, I did see a man. One I said, not the one, a man. I can't remember his name. I don't follow him. But he popped up on my for you page.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was basically saying that, like, I hope men pay attention to this because what you're seeing is a cultural shift of women saying they're not putting up with your rubbish, basically. And you need to change because you're no longer worth what you used to, what you used to be. And that I hope a lot of men hear that message.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And respond to it in the necessary way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because as much I, I. It's a hard pill to swallow. Yeah, It's a very hard pill to swallow, but it's based on reality. It is based on statistics, it's based on facts. And experiences, both quantitative and qualitative are against you here in that even what I was saying in the announcements. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If we take it even out of a dating context, look at what's happening in the world, not just in the west, in the world. Right. Men have been proven to be dangerous and the world allows them to get away with.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

On a small level, your husband going to the shop and not knowing what to buy, weaponized incompetence or just general incompetence, they get away with it.

[B]

He's a big boy.

[A]

But then on a more like, bigger level, more dangerous level, it's violence and it's violent behavior. And that being passed off as boys will be boys. And then you've got the, the, the site of dating. Right. And you see so many excuses given to why men can't seem to act right in relationships and yet so many women desiring functional and healthy relationships. And men could. Men peddling narratives as to why, and then silly women jumping on those narratives as to why men cannot provide healthy and safe and stable relationships to women. Do we not need a bit of a revolution?

[B]

Wake up.

[A]

And that revolution, sorry, is not mass lesbianism. Let's be serious, let's be serious. But it definitely is us taking a question, taking a step back to be like, listen, listen, I can do without. If it's not going to be healthy, stable and safe, I can do without. And I can also, like you said, whether in a relationship or not, stand back or heterosexual or not, stand back and hold men, especially heterosexual men, accountable to the system, which is allowing them to get away with bad behavior, which is fundamentally bad. It's not just bad. Haha. It's bad. Oh, do you get what I mean?

[B]

Like bad, bad, bad behavior.

[A]

Bad behavior.

[B]

My goodness.

[A]

Like, yeah.

[B]

So yeah, I've, I've, personally, I have loved that a side effect of this conversation has been let's actually hold men accountable for their bad behavior. Because y' all been, oh, as in not a day goes by, Not a day goes by. Like, can we actually have the holidays off or something without hearing about, oh, this person cheated on this person. This person is not who they said they were. This person stepped out on this person. You're not rests, you're not give it a restructured.

[A]

And you know what I think, dare I say, I think a huge part of society's structure is in letting men get away with this stuff. Because society is structured to let men get away with this stuff. Unfortunately, I think a huge part of that structure is the fact that Bad men still end up with the girls. They still end up with the women. Do you get what I mean? There's no, there's no serious, severe consequence or marginalization.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For men. Badly behaved men.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Do you.

[B]

I mean, I hear it.

[A]

Badly behaved women are marginalized. Like, you have too many bodies in your body. Can't get out of here. You have purple hair, go to the corner. You have long nails, get to the back. You have six children, go to the center.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? It's like, like there's, there's. It's easy to marginalize a woman who doesn't fit into a specific group, which is why we're always harping on this whole feminine energy content. It's just re emphasizing the women that should be marginalized versus the women that can be in the club of womanhood. But there doesn't seem to be that kind of consequence for badly behaved men. Now, I'm not talking to the red pill guys. Oh, short men. Oh, fat man. Oh, broke man. Okay, we get it, we get it, we get it. There are definitely, definitely situations you guys are facing over in your camp. But guess who set that up? Todd. This is the, this is a scheme that taught a man set up to come with. To come to us with the bs. I'm gonna say that in every episode, literally, this is a scheme that Todd set up. Patriarchy doesn't benefit men, but it also doesn't necessarily punish badly behaved men with the absence of women.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I don't know if you get what I'm saying, Courtney.

[B]

I was literally going to say the worst that could happen to these men is they end up in Iyanla. That's about it.

[A]

Oh, that part.

[B]

That's about it. And who is that? Led by a woman.

[A]

A woman trying to rehabilitate men. And this, this, dare I say at this point, is not just men's fault, it's also women's fault for subscribing to the BS of like, that man. You know, this man is no good. Like, you know, this man is an abuser. You know that he's a deadbeat dad, you know, and this is not like, I'm not bashing women. I love. This is a sisterhood. Do you know what I mean? I love the girl them. But, you know, this man is bad and badly behaved in general. And yet, sister girl, you are still gonna reward this man with the prize of you. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a.

[B]

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[B]

Speed slow 135 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra see mintmobile.com hi.

[A]

I'm Darina, co founder of Quo. You might know us as Openfeld. My dad is a business owner and growing up he always kept his ringtone super loud so he'd never miss a customer call. That stuck with me. When we started Quo, our mission was to help businesses not just stay in touch, but make every customer feel valued no matter when they might call. Quo gives your team business phone numbers to call and text on your phone or computer. Your calls, messages and contacts live in one workspace pace so your team can stay fully aligned and reply faster. And with our AI agent answering 24. Seven, you'll really never miss a customer. Over 90,000 businesses use quo. Get 20% [e-mail] tech that's quo.com tech and we can port your existing numbers over for free. Quo no missed calls, no missed customers.

[B]

Wake up out of and then you.

[A]

Think he'll change for the benefit of anyone in society. I need real sisterhood solidarity. This is when the big capital s sisterhood needs to stand up because the more you support and enable a man in your life who you know is bad and you don't even just stand up to say as much as I I can't leave you because of social consequence. I can't leave you maybe or I won't leave you because of what we were saying about it's not the strategic move. I fundamentally disagree with your nonsense. If you can't stand up and say that to your brother, to your spouse, to your father, to some a man in your life who you know is doing some nonsense out in the streets, you can't stand up really and say fully you're a girl's girl or you're a sister or you're. You get what I mean? Like you're standing in solidarity with women. It starts on these low places of you can't talk to a woman like that, that you can't act like that. You just holding men to a different kind of standard. All of them because it's us also subscribing to the nonsense that allows it to continue. But yeah, sorry, I completely hijacked you. I was going to say something.

[B]

No, I think you've actually brought out a very important point. I was even thinking about the life cycle of men in general, the boy moms. Y. Y. That one might even need a separate episode where we bring on somebody talk to y'. All. Because the boy content. Because I think it's important that you talked about women's participation in upholding patriarchy because sometimes we can be our worst enemy. And I was thinking about it in the context of raising boys right. And the fact that, you know, everybody goes through their trauma. There are a lot of people that, you know, circumstances out of their control. They're being raised by a single mom or whatnot. And this is not to lay blame to the single mom. Lord knows I have smoke and I will continue to have smoke for absentee fathers. Like, I will actually find you. Like. Like if I could have an alternate career path, one of the strands or threads of my careers would be private investigator. I'm pulling up to find every single deadbeat absentee father. Because what are you doing? But when it does come to actually raising our boys as well, raising our men, not allowing the infection that patriarchy can bring, because that's where it also starts. Right. If we are not holding our fathers, our uncles, our brothers, our sons accountable to the way that they speak to and engage with women, then we are part and parcel of that life cycle that creates men that cannot be held accountable. You need to be held accountable. And I. I know that there's this prevailing narrative that, oh, you know, you can't hold women accountable. We need to hold men accountable in relationships to women. Y' all can. It's. Oh, yeah, you're always deflecting. You're always blaming men. Etc, These, again, some of the most.

[A]

Policed people in the world.

[B]

So. And you know, when people like I support women's rights and wrong, occasionally God is working on me as we are all being perfected. Occasionally I hear women's wrongs, you know, because we have been wronged.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's very. And because we've been wronged for such a long period of time in our lifetimes, I understand why women. Sometimes you can close your eyes. Small, small. It's still open, but small. Small to some of women's bad behavior. But men, especially in the domain of how they relate to women, y' all have been unchecked for too long, in fact, to the point that even telling you about yourself is a problem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so in the life Cycle of demanding. We need to make sure that we're actually raising. We are checking. We are holding these men to accountable. We are holding these men accountable. And I love that you mentioned sisterhood. Big S. Sometimes you gotta tell your homegirl, babe, babe, leave that man alone. Sometimes. Sometimes. And you have to list out, like, look at what this man has done.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Why are you still messing with.

[A]

And this. And this goes past taking it to the dating conversation. This goes past just an interpersonal interaction. Right. This is not just, ah, he's bad to you. Yuck. This is. This man is ruining your life. Right. And you remaining here, obviously. Like, if your life is at risk, like, here, here, everything. Don't do the bean suit thing. Like, hear here. Don't hear what? I'm not saying. We're not saying if you're in danger or. This is. It's more complex. You've been married to this man for 75 years. And do you go. I mean, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is you just have a boyfriend that you met on hinge. Do you get what I mean? Like, you. This. This is great. It's dandy. But he treats you badly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what he's communicating to you is he doesn't care to treat you. Well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He doesn't care to treat you. This isn't. I have anger management issues. My dad left me when I was 3, and I can barely string together thoughts when I'm angry. This is. Why do I have to treat you like a decent human being? And I don't see an issue with that. Right. You need to nip the bud right there to show this man there are consequences to being an idiot, Period. There are consequences to being idiot. Because what women often do in those moments is they adapt.

[B]

Adapt.

[A]

They learned to adapt to his bad behavior. Okay, you. I'm gonna take a very, like, silly thing right? Like, okay, we went out. He didn't open the door for me. That's when I opened the door. Okay. We went out. You didn't pay for the meal for me. That's fine. I can pay for my own meal. But now we're at home and we share a child, and I'm asking you to go and buy diapers for your child because you haven't really done much for me to show me that you care about me. I see you not caring about our child, and I will just go and buy the diapers. I will do all the parenting. I will do all the cooking and the cleaning. I will just adapt my Entire life to accommodate for your lack of care. And I'm going to act like I'm okay with it because at least you're still here. That is a woman's life ruined.

[B]

You might as well just get a pet.

[A]

That is a woman's life. Woman ruined. And yes, there's the accountability of being like, but, sis, you chose that. But then there's the reality of existing in a structure which tells you, well, it's better for him to be there than for you to have no one, even though him being here is the equivalent of having no one.

[B]

Liability. Liability.

[A]

What's the point? I might as well carve my laundry in half. Do you know what I mean? So I'm just. I'm just saying in the. In the sense that, like, there needs to be a broader cultural shift around how we parent women. We parent boys. We talk to our girls. We talk to our boys about, like, how we behave and how we show people that they are worthy of respect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And care. You don't have to be attracted to anyone before you give them respect.

[B]

Important.

[A]

You don't have to be attracted to anyone or have slept with someone before you afford them safety. Everyone, no matter who they are, deserves to at least feel safe in their world. And you should not come and disturb their peace because you feel like you want to extract something from their life. It's the same reason why I have a lot of smoke towards women who want to go into transactional relationships. Because it's like, girl, you're dragging everything.

[B]

You're fake.

[A]

You think that this is pushing us forward. It's dragging everything back. Because fundamentally, your relationship should not be about extraction. It should be about mutual reciprocity. That's what it should be about. And if you can't find somebody to mutually reciprocate with you, time, care, affection, safety, resources, is. Don't be with that person if that's what you desire from a relationship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think there's another conversation here as well, around the culture that we have as girls, like, in. In sisterhood, in female friendship. And we're talking about this as well in the. On the live stream. And just how I. I saw again, another school of thought arise.

[B]

Come on now, Dr. Courts.

[A]

Response. Now it's just another type of response arise in response. Response to Shantay's article.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of like, women being like. Yeah. Like, I can't stand women who are in relationships. I genuinely, like. I feel like they think they are more important.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than who I am. And I thought to myself, okay, interesting. And I get it. And I think even in having the discussion with you, there is definitely those two valid sides here, right? Where it's like, oh, it seems like my friend got so just to give a bit more context, they're. That I saw a particular video and I saw a couple in this same line of conversation around like, yeah, like, why would a girl want a boyfriend anyway? Like, I feel like when my friends got into relationships, they just became about their partner, they just became about their kids, and suddenly they. They hold a higher social position than me and they expect me as a single woman to adjust my life to accommodate for them. But they're not that important. Like, that's not that. Whatever. We're equally as. Okay, Nobody.

[B]

Again, everybody's just shouting.

[A]

Let me tell you something. If there's anything that can even possibly insinuate that a woman has done something wrong, everyone's gonna jump on it and be like, yeah, I hate her. So I think that there's this narrative or this air of, yeah, you having a boyfriend ain't anything, or you having a partner ain't. Okay, you got married. Okay, yeah, people get married every Wednesday.

[B]

Okay, Move on.

[A]

Okay, okay, I get it. I get it. It. And to some degree, yes. But let's not lose sense and heart and sensitivity to the fact that these things outside of men, men being this. And having a boyfriend is embarrassed. These things are milestones in a person life which should be celebrated. I'm so. I'm actually so, so sorry. But somebody celebrating love or finding love diplomatically. Boy, we be fighting. No, because genuinely love. Like somebody finding love enough to. In this economy, in this climate, if somebody has found someone and, you know, their relationship is actually healthy and they've made it to somewhere.

[B]

Wow. That alone.

[A]

Wow. Let us as a community celebrate. Right. Sorry. That is. Is so funny because I know, because I feel like people, again, like, for example, with this gold bar analogy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Being like, imagine if you just worked your whole life, whether it's patriarchy, whatever, you.

[B]

You've.

[A]

You've got this gold bar, right? And it's like, wow, here you go. And your gold bar is shiny and it's nice and you like it and you're happy and you're not necessarily flaunting it, Right?

[B]

Yeah. But then as some.

[A]

As soon as somebody tells. As soon as you meet someone, and you're like, oh, yeah, last week I got a gold bar. Gold bars are ugly. Anyway, I prefer Zilbar.

[B]

He's dead now. Bronze.

[A]

Do you get what I mean? You're a Hater.

[B]

You're actually.

[A]

I'm just gonna say, however. However I get the validity of. Because society has told us that that possession is more important than anything you as a single woman could possess or have already possessed. There's that bitterness towards the fact that, why do you get to be more important than me? And fundamentally, I think that's a very valid question.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think I was bringing it up in the conversation because that person had given this example of, you know, why are we celebrating your engagement or your bridal shout or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

More than we celebrate the fact that I got a promotion or now that you're married, how come you haven't called me to ask me even though I don't have a husband, I don't have kids yet, but you haven't communicated with me to find out what's going on in my life that is bringing me joy. But every time we talk, I'm obligated to figure out, to ask about, about or hear about your child's newest milestone. Teeth is growing. Oh, they took their first step. And I completely hear that. But I think, and I'm not trying to talk about whether who is right to have what feelings. Right. Because I don't think there's a feelings issue here. I think it's more so about how we've structured the world of women, whereby we have messaged to them that these milestones are more important than other milestones. And it's demonstrated by. Before the men even come into the picture. I think if you. If you want, you have. We all have to drastically shift the cultures within our friendship group, our female friendship groups. Right. I need to be able to celebrate with you. And I mean really, not just a congratulations text. Not just the. I mean, really celebrate the fact that you got the promotion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You got the job. You wanted the same. Almost to the same way that I would celebrate the fact that you just got engaged. Why? Because my celebration communicates what's important to us as people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If the only time you've heard when I got engaged. Some people I have not heard from in a long time. I. I've had milestones upon milestones for the last, what, seven years of my career. Milestones after milestone of. I never heard of congratulations until I post the picture of a ring. That's when it was like, ah. Or even look at how. How many likes my engagement post has or your engagement post has compared to a being on a billboard writing and getting our first public. Being a top entrepreneur in the country. Like all of that crickets not to say it wasn't celebrated, but when you look at the metrics, what celebrated more? And I think when we look, look in our friendship, female friendship groups, some of the biggest and only or first celebrations of a sizable amount that a woman is going to experience is going to be her bridal shower, is going to be her wedding day, her hen do and her baby shower. And forget about even saying because we often talk about these things in like they're mutually exclusive. Right. You just got married, so now you're just about married marriage. But you probably still have a job, so your career probably still means something.

[B]

To you and you're clocking in everything.

[A]

You're actually working. But people want to reduce you to, oh, you just got married. So now all we care about is, oh, our wife. Our wife. No, call me our banker. Come on, call me our lawyer. Call me something that I was before things changed about me. But even in saying that right after the bridal shower. Yeah, after the hen do, right after the baby shower, how many people are coming to celebrate the promotion? So it's not necessarily a married women or girl booed up. Women versus single women. It's fundamentally us versus the culture that's been created around us, which a lot of us have partaken in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But also we have found ourselves in, which is that we don't celebrate women if the celebration is not attached to a man. So if we change our culture of celebration, we will change the culture in general. Right. If we just shift things like. Sorry, not to out my business yet.

[B]

No, go ahead.

[A]

When I was getting married, I was so in awe of how little celebration came from. Not little, but like we were doing bridal shower next week. Hendy. Next week, wedding day, whatever. Celebration, celebration. I kept asking Kelvin, what are your boys doing? You just went to place.

[B]

Bro, bro, bro. Literally the same.

[A]

Clicked a glass.

[B]

Even the whole went home. Even the response to the engagement as well. The girls had not a single word said. Just, oh my God.

[A]

Every time you like, literally, that's the, that's the celebration. Enough. Just.

[B]

Oh yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna find this person.

[A]

But then you know what boys get when you get.

[B]

Yo, bro, congratulations. Hey, yo, we've broken the bank.

[A]

We've gone to Marrakesh. We wore every type of dress, bro. And obviously there's something there about how men celebrate and how brotherhood manifests and all of those deep think pieces. But then there's also just fundamentally, this means more to women.

[B]

Listen, even this means more for women. That is so Funny. Do you know how funny that is? Even when you think about the girls getting together. Oh yeah. What we gonna wear? What's the outfit's gonna do? This.

[A]

How many have we seen this effort around Christmas? We see this effort around. Oh she just got her dream job. She just bought her dream car.

[B]

Okay, what are we gonna wear to celebrate the promotion?

[A]

What are we gonna do? And it's no one's fault but it's for us to take a step back to Anna. Nice.

[B]

Why is that that's so interesting.

[A]

That's just the fundamentals of like sociality.

[B]

That is so interesting. And you know what's really funny is this discourse. This is so tangential. But in relation to something like birthday dinners.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How much we are stressing ourselves. Ah, this birthday dinner thing. Yeah it's too pricey. I was doing too much. Etc. When it comes to anything wedded related that's so interesting.

[A]

The savings pot is open. Ah the savings pot.

[B]

You know like when somebody. Oh, your friend is getting married. Oh guys, sorry, I can't do this. My friend's getting married.

[A]

Getting married.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you get what I mean. And you've honestly dropped a grand but to send your friend 20 pound flowers to say congratulations on your new car, Congratulations on your new house.

[B]

Oh, shy even. Just because. Just send just because. I like just because.

[A]

And so what does our celebration communicate? This is what actually matters.

[B]

This is what we value.

[A]

Right. This is what we value. This is what's important. Right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's not again, it's not anyone doing anything on purpose. It's society. So we need to take a step back and think okay, how do we change these things? We need to start celebrating things.

[B]

Yeah. Regardless.

[A]

Right. Whether your friend is married or not. This not the same. I guess like financially is that even possible? But like give energy to. I also celebrate what's happening outside. Like for example when I call there's a particular friend I have. Right. Mother married, all of that and she felt, felt like those were big things in her life. But yeah, cool, whatever. When I call her, the first thing I'm asking her is not like how's your husband? How's your kid? It's how's work? How are you? Like what's going on? What are you like we talked about your goals. How's that going? Do you still want to go and study? And then somewhere in the conversation we.in oh yeah. How's them little boys? Yeah, yeah. How are the boys? They're good. Next. Do you know what I mean? Because that's not. I don't want you to think that's. That's all that you are. Like the amount of calls that I'll get now from people. And it's, of course, it's all well meaning, but it's well meaning in the context of the culture and the society that we need to change, which is, how are you? How's your husband? Have you cooked? Have you cleaned? How's the house? How is managing your house? But what they don't know is on the other side of that call, I'm dealing with feeling lonely in the new city. Do you get what I mean? We just bought this house. It's only the other day we figured out how to turn all the heat in. They don't know. They're asking me about this man. How. How about me jump struggling. How about me?

[B]

Kind of nonsense.

[A]

And these are the things we need to highlight in the fact that there's so many other things in life happening outside of this man. Yeah. Real outside of these men. And everyone can do their bit to change the culture that makes this such an embarrassing experience.

[B]

Y.

[A]

And before anyone changes cats, we are loving marriage. Like when I say we are loving marriage. But I think it's, I guess from a more socially conscious space, taking a step back and looking at it and being like, oh, some parts of this actually suck, which is people's response to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you get what I mean? The celebration is fantastic.

[B]

Wonderful.

[A]

I don't think I've ever looked cuter than that one period. But now I'm like, why, though?

[B]

Why? Why?

[A]

You know, you like. You like to look nice.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know that. So why has it taken this to get you to a point where you've made yourself look nice?

[B]

Why, Courtney, like, that's genuinely been like a journal point for me. You know, I'm like, oh, I really enjoyed this experience. I really enjoyed looking this nice. What other milestones or opportunities can I.

[A]

Be looking do again to make this happen for me? Outside of him? No, real. And I think that's what this article, on a more playful note, like, kind of bring it to an end. Yeah. I think that's what this article kind of pointed to. The women who have boyfriends, the issue is not the boyfriend, it's you. We want you to still be you and love you outside of him. We want to see you look nice. Guys want to see you take yourself out. All the things you were doing before. Now, for some people, especially if, again, you've put your life on hold for a Man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To wait for a man. When the man enters, that's when you come alive. That's fine, we'll take it.

[B]

Don't, don't. When the girls are out, don't bring him.

[A]

But don't. Genuinely, we want to just see you exist outside of him.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

In the way that you were existing before.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's literally it. And I think fundamentally for me as well, that's something that I've been trying my best best to do individually.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I, I still want to be the Courtney. I was saying to the, the team here that organized the camera set up, which you guys like, I was just saying to him that, like, I need to find a way to break it to my husband that I'm still going to the cinema by myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Once a month and I don't want to hear, oh, we should go and watch that together. I'm not go and oh, I wanted to watch that film with you. That's nice. But if I've determined that I, I needed my solo cinema time because this is for me and I've been doing that. Like I was saying to Mary, my sister, I want to go on a solo holiday. He was like, oh, but what about Kelvin?

[B]

What about him?

[A]

We went on holiday together last month.

[B]

What about him?

[A]

We could go to on holiday together again next month.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's like, oh, how does he feel? He feels nothing about it because he knows I was doing this before.

[B]

Kind of nonsense. What kind of nonsense?

[A]

Do you get what I mean? So it's, I think it's small mindset shifts like that, which helps us to realize life is so much more than just having a boyfriend.

[B]

Oh, Courtney, you have summed that up perfectly because let us rest and let us do things outside.

[A]

Like cuz he does stuff outside. Think about your boyfriend's life. Some of you do have like golden Labrador boyfriends. Yeah.

[B]

Really? Every time they're just leaning on you like this.

[A]

No, could you get a job?

[B]

But that's literally our joke. It's giving unemployment unless we work at the same place.

[A]

This man has a life outside of you. Let's even take it out of your specific boyfriend. Just in the context of men more generally. No man is just the sum total of their relationship.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Right, like when he goes for interviews, they're not asking about you, babe. They're not asking about you. They're asking him, what are your hobbies? What do you like to drink? Where do you like to go on holiday? What? You, you, you, you, you, you, you.

[B]

What do you do for fun.

[A]

Do you get what I mean? It's you right here.

[B]

You're asking me about this man at home. Like, say we're not both at home.

[A]

Stop that nonsense, please. So you also be thinking about you. What answers do you have to those questions?

[B]

What do you do for fun?

[A]

You know, alone.

[B]

And that's.

[A]

And that's fine. It's like you can think about you. You can think about us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But don't make your life all about him. That's the worst thing. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

Do you know what, Courtney? It's given. I think we need to do a part two of that Decentralia. No, no, no. I think we actually did it today. It's such a big conversation because, like, genuinely, even as married women, the fact that we. The temptation, I think we're overcoming that one. The response, the way that society is actually set up, the fact that even within marriage, it's still about male validation lotion. I was just thinking about. I think I said this on the. I like. I love perfume. I love like body lotion, all that kind of stuff. The amount of things that I see on the Internet around this fragrance is gonna make a man chase you down the street.

[A]

But they chase us even if we smell bad. I saw a video of a girl who was being followed by men. She had to take out her used pad before they would turn around. Sorry. I'm so sorry. But the things going on in the world, Renee, it's enough to make your head hot.

[B]

Listen, there was one babe. I was following her. Yeah, Literally. And I. I love like vanilla gourmand, kind of. She was like, this is the gourmand fragrance of all Gourmand fragrance. This thing is gonna make you break up somebody's marriage. I. I blocked her. I muted and blowed. This man is gonna fall in love with you so much, he's going to leave his wife. I blocked the.

[A]

And muted that. What a wicked description.

[B]

I felt like Jackie A. I blocked and muted. I said, I don't have time for this.

[A]

Will break up a marriage.

[B]

Break up a marriage. Yeah.

[A]

How about you? Will like this?

[B]

Why is everything. Everything from your body lotions? Yeah, you just want to be delicious. Cuz, you know, Mandam. Do you think men are there putting. Yeah.

[A]

These oud notes. Yeah. Will make her drop her panties, bro.

[B]

Do you know.

[A]

Know what we call them?

[B]

Men?

[A]

Idiots. Idiot. If you're watching. If you're watching a haul and they said, I bought this new fragrance from Hugo Boss. And you know What? This smells like all the girls chasing you. Do you know what that is a variant of madness. That is disgusting, bro.

[B]

Like, it is insane just how the entire world world is governed around validating men.

[A]

But you know what? And to be fair, there is a lot of men who will say but a lot of men are taught to be motivated by female validation and female acceptance. That's a different podcast to say the space. This is to my sister's brother. I don't know what I mean. I don't know if you read.

[B]

You know what I mean. And there's some brothers that listen. We love you.

[A]

Oh, I listen to someone else for a sociological breakdown. This ain't the space but one. But what I think is so interesting about that is again, like why can't it be. This scent smells like you're the richest woman in the world. This scent smells like freedom. This scent smells like gender equality. This scent smells like.

[B]

You smell like equal rights.

[A]

Because that is also paradise, isn't it?

[B]

That's great.

[A]

This scent smells like you getting the keys to your first property and stepping in like the girl you are. That's the descriptions I want to hear.

[B]

Oh, you. You put. You sprayed this and he's gonna eat this smell.

[A]

Smells like you just overcame depression. A depressive episode. Because you are that girl. That's what I want. You know what I want people to start saying? I need people to start talking to him. Like how to women how Issa Rae used to rap to herself. Oh, yeah. Insecure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You are that girl. That's what I've want. You are that girl. Ain't nobody like you. That's what I need to. Yeah. I don't want to hear no you.

[B]

Oh, bro, like. And the amount this. Anyways ladies, Lord knows we actually need to do. Maybe we do a series called Decentering Men and we take part of our life.

[A]

One or two one life.

[B]

Life, cuz. Ah, consumerism and men. God. Anyway, sisters.

[A]

Anyways.

[B]

What an excellent conversation.

[A]

It was funny.

[B]

It was hilarious.

[A]

It was great.

[B]

Sorry. That is so funny. She said smell like gender equality and freedom to freedom.

[A]

Someone could make that said I'll be dropping it on my. My touch points. Listen, what they call them?

[B]

They're post points.

[A]

They're my post points.

[B]

Do you know how funny that is on the tube? Smells like women's rights.

[A]

I said that. We love a set of incoming change.

[B]

We need to release.

[A]

I don't know who can make it.

[B]

We need to release white. We need to. Whoever would like to collab with us to get the Women's Freedom Line. The Women's Freedom Line literally to my sisters. Women's Freedom Line time.

[A]

That is so funny.

[B]

Yeah, sisters, our type is possible. Our time is actually fast, but there's not much to say. Follow us on social media, all them things there at my sisterhood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Follow us individually, my wonderful, articulate doctor at CD Barteg. And of course come and follow me over at Renee Kapuku.

[A]

Shout out to the MA list on our website to my sisters dot com. Like Renee mentioned earlier, we do have a sisterhood community like the Sisterhood, which is an online platform for all of us to come midweek. We chat, we share our thoughts, we laugh, we kiki. That's when you see us raw, unfiltered. So yes, join that as well. You can access that through our website as well. We hope that you have an amazing, amazing week. And girl, just remembering all the bantine, all the heaviness, right? We are for the girls, period. Okay? This is for women, by women, for women's advancement. Come on. So if you can be a part of any change, whether it be local or on a global level, please put in the effort to change the world for women because we need it. We all need it. So yeah. Love you ladies so much. And as always, keep glowing and growing. Why choose a sleep number Smart bed. Can I make my sight softer?

[B]

Can I make my sight firmer?

[A]

Can we sleep cooler? Sleep number does that cools up to.

[B]

Eight times faster and lets you choose.

[A]

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[B]

Store or sleepnumber.com today.