Seasons of Change: Navigating Female Friendships and Romantic Changes

Summary

Podcast Title: To My Sisters
Episode: Seasons of Change: Navigating Female Friendships and Romantic Changes
Hosts: Courtney Daniella Boateng & Renée Kapuku
Release Date: December 22, 2024

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1. Special Announcements and Celebrations

Engagement News:
The episode kicks off with an exciting personal announcement from Renée Kapuku about her engagement.

• Renée (03:20): "Yes, ma'am. I am, in fact, engaged... My heart is full."
• Courtney (07:42): "Can you show us the ring? Can you see it? Dazzling. It suits you."

Renée shares the heartfelt moment of her proposal, highlighting the meticulous planning and the emotional joy experienced during this significant life event.

Upcoming Live Show in South Africa:
The hosts reveal their plans to host a live show in Cape Town, South Africa, on February 1st, promising an event "bigger and better than ever" with special guests. They encourage listeners to secure tickets through their social media and website.

2. Embracing Privacy in Relationships

Balancing Online Presence and Personal Life:
Courtney and Renée delve into the importance of maintaining privacy in romantic relationships despite their active online presence through the podcast.

• Renée (10:22): "There's something beautiful about having a segment or a part of your life that is private... building something offline first."
• Courtney (15:03): "Exposure can leave you in a very vulnerable position... you have to be careful who you're vulnerable around."

Renée emphasizes the need to cultivate relationships away from the public eye to build a strong, authentic foundation before sharing them online. Courtney adds that sharing should be intentional and impactful, rather than merely for content creation or validation.

3. Navigating Insecurities in Friendships Amidst Romantic Changes

Handling Jealousy and Comparison:
The conversation shifts to managing feelings of jealousy or insecurity when friends enter new romantic phases, such as engagements or marriages.

• Renée (26:58): "Being honest about the insecurities that we face... we have receipts as friends."
• Courtney (35:35): "She's dealing with her own insecurity... It's all about her."

Both hosts discuss the natural occurrence of such feelings and the importance of addressing them openly rather than letting them fester. They advocate for honest communication to prevent misunderstandings and maintain the integrity of the friendship.

Building Long-Term Friendship Strength:
Renée and Courtney highlight the significance of having a long-term perspective in friendships, recognizing that current insecurities are temporary and do not define the entire relationship.

• Renée (30:14): "Having a long-term view of your friendship too... everything you have goes through a season."
• Courtney (38:56): "Being honest about those insecurities... how can I help you?"

They stress the importance of trusting in the covenant of sisterhood, ensuring that both friends support each other through different life stages without letting temporary feelings undermine the relationship.

4. The Role of Vulnerability and Honest Communication

Vulnerability as a Strength:
The hosts explore how vulnerability can strengthen friendships by allowing both parties to express their true feelings and support each other authentically.

• Renée (47:32): "Vulnerability has to save a relationship."
• Courtney (48:46): "Honest communication is important... Even if they ask for help, can I just go behind the scenes and pray for you?"

Courtney emphasizes that vulnerability should not be feared but embraced as a means to deepen connections and resolve underlying issues, preventing misunderstandings and fostering mutual growth.

5. Perseverance and Commitment in Friendships

Enduring Through Tough Times:
Perseverance is highlighted as a crucial virtue for maintaining long-lasting friendships, especially when facing challenges or changes.

• Courtney (55:20): "Rebuilding my relationship with the virtue of patience... allowing perseverance to be seen as a virtue."
• Renée (60:07): "Fortifying your camp individually and then fortifying it together... it's about fighting the enemy, not fighting your friend."

They discuss how perseverance involves both personal growth and joint efforts to overcome obstacles, ensuring that the friendship remains strong even during difficult seasons.

Fighting the Real Enemy Together:
Courtney and Renée advocate for addressing problems collaboratively rather than allowing personal insecurities to create friction.

• Courtney (59:06): "Let's fight the problem together... shifting focus from blaming each other to solving the actual issue."
• Renée (60:02): "Normalizing fighting the enemy, not fighting your friends."

This approach helps in identifying and dealing with the root causes of tensions, reinforcing the bond between friends by working through issues side by side.

6. Friendship as a Ministry and a Sacred Bond

Friendship as a Divine Calling:
The hosts portray friendship as one of the highest forms of relational intimacy, likening it to a ministry that requires selflessness and commitment.

• Renée (62:41): "Friendship is not just about you and me. It's about how we can support each other to look more like Jesus."
• Courtney (67:12): "The greatest love is actually friendship... because friendship is a choice."

They emphasize that true friendship goes beyond superficial interactions, requiring a deep commitment to each other's well-being and spiritual growth.

Sacrifice and Selflessness in Friendships:
Courtney reflects on the biblical perspective of friendship, highlighting the sacrificial aspect exemplified by Jesus.

• Courtney (71:21): "The greatest love is actually friendship... laying down your life for your friend."
• Renée (71:30): "Friendship is a privilege and an honor to be someone's friend."

This section underscores the profound responsibility and honor involved in maintaining meaningful friendships, advocating for selflessness and mutual support.

7. Conclusion and Final Announcements

Promoting the Importance of Friendship:
In wrapping up, Courtney and Renée reiterate the value of authentic, committed friendships and encourage listeners to prioritize and cultivate these meaningful relationships.

• Courtney (71:08): "So many adults are questioning what does it mean to be a good friend... friendship is a heavy responsibility."
• Renée (71:09): "Understanding who you call friend is an honor."

Final Reminders:
They remind listeners about their upcoming live show in South Africa, promote their book available on Amazon, and encourage following them on social media for future updates.

• Renée (72:10): "What a good one. Definitely go and pick up a copy of our book."
• Courtney (72:44): "Well, as we close out the year... keep glowing and growing."

The hosts conclude with heartfelt wishes for Christmas and anticipation for the new year, reinforcing their commitment to supporting their sisterhood community.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Renée Kapuku (03:20): "I am, in fact, engaged... My heart is full."
• Courtney (07:42): "Can you show us the ring? Can you see it? Dazzling. It suits you."
• Renée (10:22): "There's something beautiful about having a segment or a part of your life that is private... building something offline first."
• Courtney (15:03): "Exposure can leave you in a very vulnerable position... you have to be careful who you're vulnerable around."
• Renée (26:58): "Being honest about the insecurities that we face... we have receipts as friends."
• Courtney (35:35): "She's dealing with her own insecurity... It's all about her."
• Renée (47:32): "Vulnerability has to save a relationship."
• Courtney (48:46): "Honest communication is important... Even if they ask for help, can I just go behind the scenes and pray for you?"
• Courtney (55:20): "Rebuilding my relationship with the virtue of patience... allowing perseverance to be seen as a virtue."
• Renée (60:07): "Fortifying your camp individually and then fortifying it together... it's about fighting the enemy, not fighting your friend."
• Courtney (59:06): "Let's fight the problem together... shifting focus from blaming each other to solving the actual issue."
• Renée (62:41): "Friendship is not just about you and me. It's about how we can support each other to look more like Jesus."
• Courtney (67:12): "The greatest love is actually friendship... because friendship is a choice."
• Courtney (71:21): "The greatest love is actually friendship... laying down your life for your friend."
• Renée (71:30): "Friendship is a privilege and an honor to be someone's friend."

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Key Takeaways

• Prioritize Authenticity: Maintaining privacy in relationships helps build a strong, authentic foundation before sharing them publicly.

• Open Communication: Addressing insecurities and feelings of jealousy through honest conversations can preserve and strengthen friendships.

• Perseverance: Commitment and mutual effort are essential for enduring friendships through life's changing seasons.

• Friendship as a Ministry: Viewing friendships as sacred, selfless bonds can elevate the quality and depth of these relationships.

• Self-Reflection: Understanding and managing one's own emotions is crucial in preventing personal insecurities from harming friendships.

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To My Sisters continues to foster a community of support and growth, encouraging women worldwide to navigate the complexities of adulthood and relationships with grace and resilience. Join Courtney and Renée as they explore these vital topics, offering insights and wisdom to help you build and sustain meaningful friendships.

Transcript

[Renee Kapuku]

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[Courtney]

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[Renee Kapuku]

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[Courtney]

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[Renee Kapuku]

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[Courtney]

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[Renee Kapuku]

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[Courtney]

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[Renee Kapuku]

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[Courtney]

Hey, sister.

[Renee Kapuku]

Hey, ladies.

[Courtney]

We have a special announcement before we get into this week's episode, which is we are coming to South Africa TMS.

[Renee Kapuku]

Live in Cape Town.

[Courtney]

Let's do it. Let's do it. First of February, we are hosting a live show bigger and better than ever in South Africa in Cape Town, as Renaissance said. Said. And we're going to be joined by some special guests and we bring this all to you in partnership with Spotify.

[Renee Kapuku]

That's right. We're bringing the big guns for this show. So, ladies, you asked and we delivered. Make sure you get your tickets. They will be available in the description below. They will also be on all of our social media platforms. So if you are not following to My sisters on pretty much everything, then child, you are leaving up far too much for the enemy, girl. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Courtney]

Well, we're about to have a really good conversation and I know you see some bl. So let's get into the conversation. Girl, we gotta talk, period. Hello and welcome to the two My Sisters podcast. I'm Courtney.

[Renee Kapuku]

And I'm Renee. And we are your online sisters and hosts of the 2 My Sisters podcast.

[Courtney]

We are all about promoting the wellness, growth and development of a community of sisters around the world.

[Renee Kapuku]

And in today's podcast episode, we are going to be talking about Lessons learned in 2024.

[Courtney]

We are indeed.

[Renee Kapuku]

For some of us, 2024 was that year the business. For others of us, 2024 showed us Pepe. Irrespective of where you land the spectrum, some of us is a bit of both, you know, a bit of basketball. Wherever you were on the spectrum. Today, we're going to be talking about some of those lessons learned for 2024. 2024 in review and some of the tidbits of wisdom and nuggets that we have learned that will help us into 2025 and beyond. Ma'am.

[Courtney]

Yes, ma'am. But before we get into it, darlings. We have some housekeeping announcements and it's real ju. Where is this? Last year we have shown our enemies.

[Renee Kapuku]

Pepe.

[Courtney]

Ground in their eyeballs. I would like to introduce to the Tone the newest fiance in town, Ms. Renee Kapu.

[Renee Kapuku]

Girls are finding me.

[Courtney]

Literally. Literally, literally. You are engaged best friend. Do you want to tell the girl? I know the girls are confused. Do you want to explain?

[Renee Kapuku]

She said, give us a little bit of it. Yes, I am, in fact, engaged. I also want to say a major shout out to my best friend, AKA chief project manager, AKA the brains behind the operation. So, yes, your girl is officially engaged. Giving double. Double.

[Courtney]

It really is.

[Renee Kapuku]

Wow. The witches were working. But guess what? God works harder.

[Courtney]

Lol. But God is too good.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Courtney]

Happy for you, friends.

[Renee Kapuku]

Thanks, girl.

[Courtney]

How are you feeling?

[Renee Kapuku]

I'm feeling fantastic. I know Courtney was waited to lie to me after the whole fiasco of her engagement. I knew it. I. I knew it. I was waiting for her. I knew she said the first. The thing is. The thing is, was like, I knew you waited for your opportunity to get me back, but sh. I know the girlies were like, I didn't expect it to be this soon. But you know what? One thing about me and Courtney is we go do some ish together. The Lord took that personally. So, yeah, I guess to give a brief oversight of the story, Ms. Courtney and Mr. Mad devised a cockaboo story that we had a recording that, you know, I was going to be a guest on and that Courtney would be facilitating herself. So, you know, I. Of course I'm going to do anything that Courtney says I'm gonna do. You know, it's one of the. Well, for most. The most part, I trust. So, you know, anything I've got to do, you know, I'm gonna do that. So imagine my shock and overwhelmed to find myself going to a beautiful balcony and finding a incredible floral installation with a will you marry me? Sign in glaring lights with the dulcet tones of her and Daniel Caesar. It was a wonderful, wonderful proposal. And right after that, we went to dinner. We did up Milan as the day trip. We went to another brunch. Like, it's just been a really wholesome time and wholesome weekend, so having the time to, you know, celebrate with my friends and family. Obviously, being with Mr. Mans, my heart is full. My heart is full. And this is a good man. And I'm even more happy that I've been able to really just, yeah. Sit and be present in that happiness and contentment like Literally, like, obviously, you know, the friends and family found out before y'all, but being able to have that bit of a bubble.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

And then now being able to share it with obviously, all of you wonderful women that have been so supportive and so loving. Yeah. Fantastic stuff. So I am feeling full, good, happy.

[Courtney]

How beautiful.

[Renee Kapuku]

Love a girl. Who'd have thought? Love a girl. Yeah, that's right. We're in love. Had to come to the admission of love.

[Courtney]

Of love.

[Renee Kapuku]

Another one bites the dust.

[Courtney]

Oh, well, well, well. Oh, happy for you, friend. I'm glad that it was a wholesome and enjoyable weekend for you. You deserve. Thanks, friend. That I do deserve it. You do. And it was. Yeah. It was so smooth operation. What can I say? What can I say? But it's been nice.

[Renee Kapuku]

Attention to detail. I'm sorry, guys. I'm even wearing green for pistachio. I. If you're new to the sisterhood, I'm obsessed with pistachio. That's my favorite flavor of everything. Yes. I think that was when I literally, like, a tear shed the attention to detail to have a pistachio cake. Because I literally said to Courtney, I was like, babe, I really need, like, just a slice of something. Like just a cake slice. But for it to be a cake and it to be pistachio flavored.

[Courtney]

Woo. I might write a guide how to be a best writer today.

[Renee Kapuku]

How to be a best. Literally. No, no, no. Honestly. Yeah. I'm. Yeah. Overwhelmed with joy and happiness.

[Courtney]

I'm glad, I'm glad. I'm glad. No, he is a good man. And it's been so nice to see you so happy. And the two of you being so intentional about planning for the future and it culminating in that beaut. Moment. N. It was so, so wonderful, guys. I was working like a dog. I was working like a dog to.

[Renee Kapuku]

Get this proposal together.

[Courtney]

Oh, my God. The last couple of weeks of my life have been hectic, but it was worth it. It was worth it. I got to meet some awesome people along the way as well.

[Renee Kapuku]

Incredible.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Everyone who was a part of this did an excellent job. And, yeah, guys, the girl is very gay. Shot of the ring, please. Can you show us the ring? Can you see it? Dazzling. Come on. It suits you. Proper. Thank you.

[Renee Kapuku]

Thank you. And it's the exact same problem. God bless you. No, also. Yeah. How to be.

[Courtney]

Can you actually tell your husband to dash me somebody?

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah. A project management fee. No, no. This is when I say the exact ring that I wanted and I shared it with Courtney, like, maybe a year.

[Courtney]

And a Half ago.

[Renee Kapuku]

So the fact that you even kept it. And sis was like, yeah, this is.

[Courtney]

What the baby needs to. I even told him, do not do any interpretation from this picture. Don't dev from this picture. I even sent him a video alongside of it. Just. This is the rig. If you. If I see anything that's not. It's not approved, and you have to go back to center.

[Renee Kapuku]

So take that back to the store.

[Courtney]

Also, shout out to being here with our best friends.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah. At this point.

[Courtney]

At this point. Hey. Hi. Me again.

[Renee Kapuku]

Me again.

[Courtney]

No, it's actually been so wonderful, and it's been nice, like, getting to realize how. Not that this was the first time I realized how close we were, but just, like, it's a couple things, actually. One realizing how close we were. Like, oh, I actually know so much about Renee. Like, I actually know her.

[Renee Kapuku]

I'm so sorry.

[Courtney]

Like, I actually know her life.

[Renee Kapuku]

You know what I mean?

[Courtney]

Like, I actually know how I know what she likes and what she doesn't.

[Renee Kapuku]

Like, we might.

[Courtney]

I got her back. But also, just to see us both at this stage of life.

[Renee Kapuku]

Insane. That is crazy, isn't it? Actually insane.

[Courtney]

That is crazy.

[Renee Kapuku]

Hey. Wow. Our enemies are so upset.

[Courtney]

No, you're not serious. But also, I just feel like God is really. God is really doing his big one. Like, I think it's actually so rare that you get to go through the same stages of life almost at the same time with your best friend.

[Renee Kapuku]

I mean, so, yeah, here we are. Hi. Everything now. Double, double chai.

[Courtney]

But also, it feels like last week, the amount of proposal this weekend, the amount of proposals I have seen with my own eyes, like, it's given the.

[Renee Kapuku]

National Council of engagement.

[Courtney]

They said 2024 is the year they had a meeting.

[Renee Kapuku]

Ah. They showed us. They said. I don't know, everybody woke up and they said, you know what? Breaking news.

[Courtney]

Marry.

[Renee Kapuku]

It's good because we love to see healthy.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And it's important, you know, it is. You know, it's important. It's actually really inspiring in the light of, like, the gender wars conversation. It's nice to see that people are still doing what they can to.

[Renee Kapuku]

So you people are still laid up under, you know.

[Courtney]

Oh, that's a good question, though. I think there's a good qu. There's a good conversation here for us to have about privacy.

[Renee Kapuku]

Oh, yeah.

[Courtney]

Because obviously, like, we've been on this podcast for a minute, and, like, a lot of people didn't know what was really the deal with, like, our relationship statuses. Right. And I think there's something there around what is secrecy and what is privacy? Because we are, you know, commentators on the gender wars, the dating scenes, and all of this stuff. So, like, for us and for you, what do you think has been your core lessons and values surrounding privacy and why you decided not that you're the most online person, but why? Well, I mean, by virtue of doing this podcast, you are very online. But, like, why you decided basically to not show your relationship publicly, for example?

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's something very beautiful about having a segment or a part of your life that is private, that's just for you and the person. And I think it's also considering the other person as well.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Renee Kapuku]

I think oftentimes when we put, like, relationships online and whatnot, we forget that away from the onlineness and the visibility, there are people and they're humans.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

And I think that for me and my partner, my fiance. Fiance, you know, we've been doing this thing. It was like, oh, wow. The first drink we've had since being fiance is like, wow, coffee. Since being a fiance. It gives you an opportunity to build and really invest in your relationship away from prying eyes. And it also just gives you an opportunity to be human in those moments, to be yourself in those moments. I think it is when we show up online, there are so many different temptations, There are so many different pressures. There are so many different things that come as a result of being visible that I think there is, again, something beautiful about being able to shield your relationship a little bit, especially when it is in the fairly early stages as well, and really build and build community offline as well as online. I am very much of the belief that you have to build something offline first, first before you build it online or continue the journey online. Even when I think about our relationship, we were, like best friends for a really long time before we started sharing that with the world. And I think it's because we had that time to hide away, to invest, to build, to really go through that process of becoming, you know, my sister's keeper, that we've been able to stand the pressures or stand the. Just everything that comes with hypervisibility. And when I think of. Even when I think of, for example, the Bible and all that kind of good stuff, a lot of people, their ministry came towards the end of their hideaway period, the end of the season of, you know, privacy, when they've had time to really form away from prying eyes. And there's something about premature exposure that can often uncover so many impurities or uncover so many challenges or difficulties that really could have been dealt with if you did have the cocooning of privacy. And I think it's also really important to have people that love you and care about you in real life, that do life with you, to invest in your relationship before you share that, you know, with the world. I think we are not. We live in a parasocial relationship like lifestyle right now where there's a whole bunch of people that, you know, know us and know me as Renee online, but very few people, or rather a handful of people that know Renee the human away from the cameras. And I think that as much as we may spend a lot of time being online, we spend far more time being offline. And it's so, so important to make sure that we're investing in the offline version of ourselves so that when we do show up online, it's actually something that does stand. So for me, it was really an opportunity to build a firm foundation, build a relationship that was also real. A relationship that's not just about, you know, the fanfare of a relationship or showing all of the good stuff or, you know, just the pressure of making sure that our relationship was Instagrammable or aesthetic or whatever. I really wanted to make sure that my relationship was actually something that I enjoyed, something that he enjoyed, that was actually built on a mutual love and affection, respect and covenant. And it's been beautiful because now we can share our relationship on our own terms and I can trust and know that, you know, this is my person. We've built it on a firm foundation. My community is behind me and supporting me and supporting us. And now we get to share it with the world and say, you know, look what the Lord has done.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

And I think there's something very beautiful about that.

[Courtney]

I agree. I completely agree.

[Renee Kapuku]

But how about you, friend?

[Courtney]

Ciao. I've always said this, like, for me, the aim of transparency is always impact. I'm not in the habit of sharing my business for entertainment.

[Renee Kapuku]

Right.

[Courtney]

And I think that's the biggest part about, like, relationship content nowadays. Not to diss anyone who shares their relationship, because I think everyone experiences joy in different ways. And for some people sharing their relationship, getting to document that process and like, be more public with it is actually a joyful experience for them. So I don't want to take that away from anyone. But I think for me personally, I know that with the nature of the Internet, relationship content gets a lot of attention and people become really invested. And that's not bad. Like I see how people are invested in, say, our friendship and stuff like that. But I also know that that type of comes with pressure and that type of investment comes with sometimes unasked for opinions, you know, and unsolicited advice and, you know, people wanting certain things which once you give people access to, you can't necessarily take back. So I feel like for me, if it's gonna be impactful at the right time, I'll definitely share it. But I, I never actually share the things that I'm going through in real time. Like, I rarely ever share. If I, if I've shared a story, if I've shared an ex, if I've just used anything from my real life experience and I've shared it online, it's never something I'm going through in real time unless I'm like, lord, this vulnerability, will it leave me too exposed? Because I think exposure is a really, like, it's a really two edges sword sometimes, like, it's really difficult to juggle. So, yeah, exposure can also leave you in a very vulnerable position in the worst way. And vulnerability is a weakness. Like, it does leave you in a somewhat weak position. And so, yeah, you got to be careful who you're vulnerable around. And sometimes the Internet is not, and the broad public is not worthy of that kind of vulnerability. And I think it's actually very wise to be discerning of that, who you trust your vulnerability with. So for me, it's just been about processing things, as you were saying in my own time, making sure its foundations are good, making sure I've been the one who's been transformed first and foremost and impacted first and foremost, and then sharing them when I know I'm in, I'm ahead of this narrative, I'm in control of what's going on. And also, like you said, honoring the privacy of the other people involved. Because I think sometimes we don't pay attention to that part. That like, whilst we are very public facing people, our partners may not want to be in that way. You know, they may have their own. And I think this is even our real, like, experience, our real life experience where it's like our partners have their own lives and they have their own things which they're doing. Which exposing them to something like this in a particular way can detract from that.

[Renee Kapuku]

Exactly.

[Courtney]

Or can put them in a place which they just aren't prepared for, don't want to be in at all. And I think honoring that, honoring personal choices and personal desires is really important. And like, yeah, I think it's just a. It's a form of protection as well. It's a form of protecting your partner from something which they don't have to deal with. Right, right. Like attention is a hell of a drug.

[Renee Kapuku]

It really is.

[Courtney]

And it's a hell of a thing. So not everyone needs to be exposed to it.

[Renee Kapuku]

And there's just something beautiful about cultivating intimacy away from the cameras. Right. I think sometimes we get so trapped in this cycle of wanting to showcase, showcase, showcase that it actually detracts from the beauty of the moment or the intimacy of the moment where you're actually present with that person. And I never would want to get to a place in any relationship that I have, to be fair, where it's all about the views or it's all about the clicks or the showcasing of the narrative. Because even with the whole, oh, I wanna, I wanna be impactful, I love the fact that you actually intentionally ask yourself, is this going to be impactful? Rather than just simply assuming that by virtue of it being, oh, a beautiful thing or a wonderful thing, I need to share it.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee Kapuku]

We've gotten into this attention culture, but we're also getting into this almost virtue signaling, impact, signaling culture, whereby everything we do that is beautiful must be shared with the Internet. That's so true. I think about, like, call me old school and old fashioned and whatnot, but back in the day when you were getting married, it was only like five people to your people. And then whenever you saw somebody, you know, they find out when they find out. And of course I know again, culture, tradition, all of these things have changed since then. But I do think that it's important for the longevity and the integrity of a relationship to still have intimacy away from praying eyes, so that you don't fall into the trap of thinking that your relationship is simply for the consumption of people that you don't know.

[Courtney]

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think also with that it's. You kind of touched on it like this contentification of everything, like everything is content. I must extract every possible ounce of content potential from every part of my life. Especially when you're a content creator, it's very easy to fall into that trap when not everything is content. Some things are just life. Like you actually have to live it, not film it. And I think that's some of the biggest temptations we have as a generation where it's like something maybe prematurely showcased, and I'm not talking about documenting the process or anything like that, but like prematurely exposed when it doesn't have the structural Integrity to withstand that kind of pressure that comes with attention. So, yeah, I just think it's about timing. It's about times and seasons, man. It's about times and seasons. And I think. Think the. The Christian girl trap as well is using it as an opportunity to do ministry. And, yeah, everything in. Yeah, everything in life is. Is ministry to some degree. But forgetting that the relationship in itself is the ministry, the primary ministry, like ministering and. And, you know, becoming more like Christ in your relationship with your partner, also helping your partner to become more like Christ as well. If you then put another burden or another distraction of making a marriage ministry of it, you're not really giving into the ministry of the marriage. Like, you need to really give yourself to that as well. So I think as we're both stepping into that season as well, where it's like, okay, you actually have to give yourself to the ministry of marriage and how that means, what that means, right? What it means to actually have a husband or be a wife and be in a partnership and a union with someone. That takes a lot of energy. Sometimes at the end of all of that, you don't have time to edit a video. And it'll be sad if you take. Take the time that you need to be investing into your marriage away from it to edit content.

[Renee Kapuku]

That part or the only time that you actually invest in your relationship is in front of the camera. So as soon as the cameras stop rolling, you're like, oh, well, it's good to see you.

[Courtney]

See you next week.

[Renee Kapuku]

I wish you all the best.

[Courtney]

He's actually live with this man.

[Renee Kapuku]

Absolutely.

[Courtney]

That.

[Renee Kapuku]

And also for the girlies that are looking for, you know, the marriage had book and stuff like that. Y'all ain't gonna get there from me. Y'all ain't gonna get that from Courtney. Maybe ask us in about decades.

[Courtney]

Yeah, I was about to say ask us in some time. I think there's nothing wrong with sharing your experiences as you're learning them. Like, this is what I experience. This is what I've learned. But it's not prescriptive advice, and it's not expert advice. I think that's. That's the thing is about positioning. Like, when you position yourself as an expert, we gonna have some expert expectations.

[Renee Kapuku]

You was a. For you is a fraud.

[Courtney]

You just arrived. Let's be honest about that.

[Renee Kapuku]

You actually. And it also does not need to become your whole identity. Yeah, I think that's what I know a lot of women. We've even spoken about on the podcast. A lot of Women find frustrating is when people enter a new season into their life. And listen, don't get. Don't get it twisted. I'm excited.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

I am so happy. That is going to be my identity for a season.

[Courtney]

Correct that.

[Renee Kapuku]

However, when it becomes your whole life all of a sudden. And now, Omar, nobody can talk to you about anything Again. This one that I'm here a content creator about friendships. Oh, you know, so in my relationship, you know, I make it the pivot to talk all about exclusively my romantic relationship. I think it is also about being true to and honoring the calling that you have on your life and honoring the lifetime ministries that God has also given you. For some people, it is marriage. For others, it's. It's a whole bunch of other things, like, especially when it comes to friendship. I know that's a lifetime ministry for me. So as much as I will go through seasons of different focuses and different things popping up in my life that are so exciting and, you know, I want to share them, it is making sure that I am honoring the call on my life as well and not pivoting because of the attention or pivoting because of a feeling or a season or whatnot. So going through the seasonings. The season. Sorry. But still honoring the calling, especially the lifetime callings.

[Courtney]

That is so, so good. I know in this episode we were meant to touch more on, like, I know. That was it. You were still in the housekeeping. Yeah, forget it.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah, forget that.

[Courtney]

You know, that's why I was actually gonna say. Right. You know how, like, sorry, guys, there is actually another big announcement. I don't know when to say it now. We'll insert it as another ad somewhere. But essentially what I was gonna say is, I know this episode was meant to be more on, like, 2024, our reflections, but I think it would be better maybe to do the episode that we were thinking about doing next week now because. So next week we were going to do a like, 2024 friendship review. Like, how we felt, the lessons we've learned about friendships, how we felt about friendships this year and stuff like that. But I think maybe it'd be better doing it now because obviously something really significant, which doesn't happen for most people, has happened to us in that. That we both got engaged in the same year around the same time. And like, we have experienced, like I said, those changing of seasons together. Right. And I think in light of having conversations around, like you said, like, women slightly changing, maybe when they enter romantic relationships or get married or whatever, I think it'll be cool to talk about our friendship in the light of how it's helped us.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

As we've navigated dating. As we've navigated now, like, being engaged. Right. Like, what has friendship looked like? Because I think for me, transparently, there was that, like, I would say four or five years ago. I wouldn't say now, like a way when ago. There was that conversation around, oh, like, you know that clip with us and Mary where it's like, who's gonna get married first? Or also like, what. What would you rather. Would you rather have a really good romantic relationship or have your friend? And I was like, we can actually have both.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Right now we're living in the. We can actually have both now. Reflecting back, how did we deal with maybe times of. I don't know if you had it or it was just me, but maybe times of, oh, what would happen if one of us was married and one of us was single? Or what would happen if. What happens when one of us gets married before the other? Do you get what I mean? How do we navigate in our mind those kind of insecurities around the timing of our lives? Not sinking.

[Renee Kapuku]

Thinking of. Yeah, that's such a great question, actually. Coming in hot there already.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I think it. I think because it's very unique to, like, have a podcast where you talk about friendships.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And knowing that one of the biggest things that trips up female friendships is romantic relationships. So now being able to talk about it from a place of being in it.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

Do you know what I think? Definitely felt that. I ain't gonna lie to you. When I even think about that whole video, obviously you can look back on it.

[Courtney]

Oh, yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

Can look back on it fondly and say, oh, wow. When we were young, you know, 20, 23.

[Courtney]

I mean, 23 years old.

[Renee Kapuku]

You know what I'm saying?

[Courtney]

It's like, oh, 2021.

[Renee Kapuku]

We can have both. It's fine. By the time. Yeah.

[Courtney]

You know, was it fine?

[Renee Kapuku]

Hey, the streets were streets and filthy facts. This is why we. It's even possible that we're even going to get married, first of all, because the streets were just filthy.

[Courtney]

That's hilarious.

[Renee Kapuku]

But, yeah, I think it is. First of all, being honest about the insecurities that we face. I think sometimes there is this. This grand narrative of women. When you feel an insecurity, it means that you're inherently bad. But no, it just means that you're inherently human. And funnily enough, at coffee and prayer. Yeah. Susan Deborahs. I'm. I adore you. I actually adore you. Yeah. My south side apostle. I adore you. She is an incredible woman who is the founder of Coffee and Prayer uk. If you're not plugged into that community, I suggest you do, because that event where my bestie was also speaking at. Correct. Yeah. It was good fan.

[Courtney]

Susan. Debra's. You just carry something.

[Renee Kapuku]

Chef kiss. Chef kiss. And one thing that she said that really resonated with me is that it's very possible for the emotions, the negative emotions that you're feeling to coexist with belief and faith and hoping on other things. Right. We often think that if you do have faith and belief or whatnot, then you shouldn't even be feeling any of these emotions. But the human experience is that we can experience both at the same time. We can be complex. It really is just about which one rules you and which one wins. They can both exist, but one of them has to win big time. And oftentimes we have to choose actively to allow our hope, our faith, and our belief in God to win and trump our negative emotions. So I think navigating insecurities, navigating that awkward period or even, like, awkward thoughts that you may have is like, oh, I love my bestie. But there's also a part of me that is afraid that our relationship is going to transform dramatically with the entrance of this undefined man. You know, back in the day, the guy was undefined, but as time progressed, the men materialized. And I think it is about being honest about those insecurities. There were some times where we even had conversations and we were like, look, this is how I'm feeling right now. Or even, like, you know, taking stock of our relationship as well, really remembering and having hope and faith and belief that it's not just about you and your insecurities, but also hope, faith, and belief in your friend and how God shows up in your friend as well. So even for me, whenever I was feeling a bit insecure or feeling a bit like, oh, my God, you know, queen is going up and leave me someday or whatnot, it's having faith that, A, we have receipts as friends. It's also having faith that, B, irrespective of what happens, me and Courtney, we have a friendship and a covenant that we both respect. And men have come, men have gone, and even the ones that have stayed and are staying, they're sticking around, it seems, for a while, for a lifetime, it seems. Yeah, it is. Knowing that that is a type of covenant. But what we have is covenant, too. And I have faith in you as my friend to honor your covenants. There may be, and don't get me wrong, there will be some awkward times where it's like we're figuring things out.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

But because we already have the value of, of extending grace to each other, we know that these awkward times or these seasons or anytime there may be some pressure points, we're going to navigate it together and we have to extend grace and eventually joy will come in the morning. Right?

[Courtney]

Amen to that.

[Renee Kapuku]

And the last thing I'll say is having a long term view of your friendship too. I think sometimes we can be so consumed by how we feel in the present moment. Or, you know, when you're feeling an insecurity. It's like, I'm going to be feeling this way forever. Everything like that you're feeling, everything that you're going through only exists for a season. And it's so trust me when I, I say it is hard. You may be feeling insecurity, you may even be feeling some type of way. You're like, damn, you know, things are changing. And I feel uncomfortable about that. It's knowing that that discomfort has a season's end too, and trusting and believing that the longevity of your friendship will overcome that season that you're experiencing. But really and truly it is about having, you know, being honest with yourself, dealing with that obviously internally, but also being honest with your friend as well. And not necessarily like using your friend as like, you know, emotional regulation or like your therapist or whatnot, but saying, hey, I really do adore you. This is causing me a little bit of insecurity or this is how I'm feeling. Like I want to have a transparent conversation with you about, you know, the longevity of our friendship. What does our friendship actually look like beyond. And we've had those conversations. There's been some type. Look, when this babe got engaged, I said, look, Courtney, that third room in you guys house, I'm gonna be there, like make sure the child got space or you know, even making sure that yes, these seasons will come. But mapping out what does our friendship look like when this happens, when this happens. Even thinking about the possibilities with your friend and not giving the enemy room to distort your thoughts when you're alone. Because I think that oftentimes when we're experiencing negative emotions and negative feelings, the temptation is to deal with them alone. And yes, there is an element of you have to do emotional regulation by yourself before you do come together with somebody else. However, one of the biggest traps of the enemy is to get you alone so that they, the enemy, can really torment your thoughts or twist your thoughts. Right. There's so many friends that I have that when we do have a conversation, it changes their mind completely because they realize that they were just playing into their insecurities or rather they were allowing the negative or the self critic inside themselves to win.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

And sometimes all it takes is one conversation with your friend for that hope, that belief and that faith to rule over the negative emotions. So sometimes it is a case of voicing those insecurities so that you give your friend the opportunity to help you out and silence the voice of the enemy that has actually gained a foothold in those insecurities. Yeah, that's so true. So it's tough, it's hard, but it's also part of the maturation of a friendship as well. Because there will be, listen, romantic relationships aside, there's a whole bunch of different things that can be beautiful things, but also pressure points and stress on your relationships. People that are having kids, for example, all of a sudden their whole life is reoriented around a very, very integral and very like life changing responsibility. It may be somebody's dealing with grief of losing a friend or a family member or you know, whatever it is. I think it really is about honoring the covenant of your friendship and also recognizing the importance of your friendship as well. Both parties really do need to recognize that this person that I'm doing life with is my sister. This is not even. In fact, I think it really is that it is really seeing the covenant in your friendship and really seeing like the sister in your friend. Like when I look at you or when I see you, yes, you're my friend, but also you're my sister. You can't get, I can't get rid of you. In my view. I'm not, and I'm not even trying to. It's like, girl, don't get rid of me too. You what I'm saying, I'm going to stick around for a really long time. But really it is about going through those awkward seasons, those awkward times with your friend, but also trusting in the covenant that is sisterhood.

[Courtney]

Yeah, that's so good.

[Renee Kapuku]

But I would love to hear your thoughts of navigating the tough times, the insecurities, the challenges that can come. Especially when you know you may have those thoughts in your head or when you're navigating those seasons, when you're in those periods of insecurities or negativity, negative thoughts. What does that look like for you?

[Courtney]

I think you Touched on it. Spot on. You know, I think it's one, trusting God to fulfill his promises to you. I think two, it's. Uva said something really beautiful about. About comparison in the live show, and she was just talking about it's easy to see somebody get roses and forget that roses have thorns. Like you can see someone get their flowers and they're holding this big bouquet and you're thinking, oh my gosh, this is so beautiful. I want to get my flowers one day. But you're forgetting that every good thing comes with some aches and pains and some possible threats and some parts which aren't as smooth, you know? And I think it's reminding yourself as well that as your sister may be transitioning into a new season of life and maybe that does have some potential threats to what you currently have going on, it's remembering that you should be there to also safeguard and support her and help her as she trans. She navigates something new as well, and not completely romanticize it in a way that makes you forget that she may face some challenges which she needs you to stand by her side.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah, that's the face.

[Courtney]

And I think it's just not losing sight of that because maybe you're. You've got caught up in your feelings as well. It's. It really is a maturity thing, I think, think with transitions in friendships or when your timeline with your friend isn't fully looking the same, there is only one thing you can both do, which is choose to mature. And not just mature the friendship, but mature as people. You actually have to grow up as people. You have to choose to overcome those feelings that you're grappling with inside of you. And it's not to say completely ignore them. I think emotional regulation is not. Not ignorance. It's not denial. It's not acting as though this thing does not exist and just completely being blind to it. It's actually doing the dirty work of dealing with it. And I think a lot of us can run away from doing the dirty work, but some seasons in your friendship force you to do the dirty work. You can't get around this anymore because it. It affects the way you show up, it affects the way you support, it affects the way you speak, it affects the way you pray, it affects the way you do covenants. Right. So it's actually going through the. The ugliness of it and not being afraid to do that internally. I also think honest communication is important. I think sometimes we do struggle with that in friendships. Like, I remember, like somebody asking this random question on Instagram being like, oh, my gosh, if your friend was jealous of you and they told you, how would you feel? And a lot of people were like, oh, my gosh, no, she shouldn't tell me that. And I was just thinking to myself of. But then how are you going to help process through that? Because usually at the root of feelings, like maybe jealousy or bitterness or comparison is not necessarily that she hates you, but that she's going. She's dealing with her own fear.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

She's dealing with her own insecurity. She's dealing with her. That it's actually all about her.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

But she's projecting it onto you, and you're kind of catching. Catching stray bullets in this process. And so as hurtful as it can be, can you kind of see past what's hitting you and see that your sister's lashing out for a reason or she's ex. She's feeling some way for a reason, and not necessarily. It's not necessarily because of something you've done, it's because of something she's going through. And she clearly needs a sister to also help her go through that. That properly. Right. And so as much as we can be like, no, I don't want my friend to tell me that she's jealous of me, that will end the friendship. I think it's also a test for us, especially if as long as your friend's not saying she's jealous of you and she's also becoming a witch. That's different. Like someone being jealous of you and then also wishing you ill. That's a completely different. That there is no conversation there. That friendship is distance because I don't know what you could do to me. That's it. No, it might not be the end of the friendship, but it is a pause.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah. To be honest, it's actually better she tells you that she's jealous because if she ends up making a burner account where she rents her that part. You know what I'm saying? There's levels.

[Courtney]

That part. And so I think it's. It's creating for me. I. I think within friendships, my biggest appreciation is honesty.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Like, can you be honest? Can you be vulnerable? Can you just say, listen, I'm feeling this type of way and I need your help.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I actually need your help in navigating it because I don't want it to negatively affect our relationship, and I don't want it to negatively affect how I can show up for you in this season of potential joy for you as well, and then welcoming your sister in. And I think truly, if you are friends, like, if you're as close as you say you are, then you should also be willing to show up in some way for your sister in that. In that space and just be like, you know what? I understand what you're processing through. It doesn't upset me, maybe, that you're processing it this way. Yeah, but what can I do? Maybe. What can I say to encourage you, reassure you? Can I just go behind the scenes and pray for you and your heart? But thank you for letting me in on what's going on, because I think what actually can make Picture this. You're halfway through a DIY car fix, tools scattered everywhere, and boom, you realise you're missing a part. It's okay because, you know, whatever it is, it's on ebay. They've got everything. Brakes, headlights, cold air intakes, whatever you need. And it's guaranteed to fit. Which means no more crossing your fingers and hoping you ordered the right thing. All the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. EBay. Things people love.

[Renee Kapuku]

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[Courtney]

How do I say it? I think what makes these things even more of a threat to female friendship is letting it fester for too long.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yes.

[Courtney]

You actually need to say it, as uncomfortable as it is, if you just. Some battles that we're going through in our heart cannot be fought alone. You have to confess. You have to say this to someone else, whether it be your friend or another friend or a trusted wise counsel who's not going to twist the story against the other person. Can you talk to somebody so that you could fight this battle that's going on in your heart together? Because if not, if you just try to deal with it on your own, it's gonna fester so much that you're not going to realize when jealousy turns into envy or when your comparison or your insecurity has turned into jealousy. It's gonna become so much uglier if you don't expose it quickly. If you don't let off that lid and lay air out quickly. And it. I think it's very easy to be like, oh, but I don't want to steal this fun or good moment for my friend. And took. No. Find a way in a mature and healthy way to just be real about what's going on. And the prayer has to be that you're your friend will receive it in a way that helps them to see they are not the issue.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

But then you need their help to process through your problem.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I think that's the. That's the big thing that can help friendships mature and help your friend to know no longer be an enemy.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yes.

[Courtney]

As well. Because I think that's another thing that jealousy or comparison or insecurities or simply comparing yourself to a woman and feeling a negative emotion can do. It can make that other woman the enemy. And that's a tough thing when that woman is actually, actually your friend.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So it's just about giving it room to air it out. Like, okay, you started dating someone before me. I feel sad that I'm not in a relationship yet. And when I see you with your partner, it just reminds me that, like, I'm missing something from my life that I actually want. And it's not that I want what you have. It's not that I want to be you. It's not that I don't think you deserve to have what you have. And it's not that I'm happy. It's not that I'm not happy for you. It's just that, wow, I've realized I'm unhappy with an aspect of my life.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Or I'm unhappy about this area of my life. And with that. That being said, I need your help.

[Renee Kapuku]

But. And you know what I love about how you phrased it there is. It really is about framing. Right. This is not about you as my friend, but this is about this putting a spotlight on an area that I feel unfulfilled in. And I feel like that in of itself will enable your friend to actually invite you in. Yeah. It's a lot easier when you're actually quite honest and you've done that work of what is the root of this? I'm jealous. But why am I jealous? Am I jealous just because. Because I don't think my friend should have this. Which for most people, unless you are a witch, is not the case. Typically, it's. I feel inadequate here. I feel insecure here. This is not about you. Although you have played a part in you know, shining the spotlight, but the spotlight is very much on me.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

And I actually need your help in reframing my life, my perspective and reframing, you know, how I see things to, you know, help me get through this.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee Kapuku]

So I love that you really framed.

[Courtney]

It and also being able to illustrate that this does not, and hopefully also self regulate to make sure that this does not make you unable or incapable of celebrating your friend.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? So it's like, no. Like, I don't want you to think every time I see you happy, I'm growling on the. Do you get on the inside? I'm like literally flipping out. Like, no, that's not what it is. And that's, that's the self regulation piece you have to do before you even have this conversation. It's self regulating, but also, also the self awareness piece as well. Getting to the bottom of your feelings. Because before you realize that, you go and have this conversation and you lash out at your friend as if they're the problem. And actually, babe, when it comes to jealousy, the problem is you. You are the problem. The problem is residing inside of you. You're unfulfilled in an area of your life. You're upset about an area of your life and it's triggering and it's painful and it's. Most women don't want to feel like that about parts of their life, even if you also. And I love that you talked earlier in the episode about feeling emotions simultaneously, even if you're also fulfilled about that area of your life. Like there are areas of, maybe you're single and your friend is in a relationship. You're actually happy about your singleness. You find joy in moments of your singleness. You've done all the things that, you know, you watch my YouTube video and you were like, I'm happy about my singleness. But then there are some days where you go to sleep and you're like, actually, I would like a boo at.

[Renee Kapuku]

This stage of my life very much.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? And then your friend has a boo. Your friend just gets engaged and you're like, oh, this has actually even made me realize more how much I desire to not be in this season anymore. The thing now is identify what's at the root of that feeling. But most of us go wrong because we don't do that self awareness piece. We're just angry at our friend because she's now moving on and it feels like she's leaving us behind. And she, she, she. When it's us, us, us. It's me, me, me. That's actually at the root of the issue. So you've got to do that self awareness piece. And then when you go to have that conversation, hopefully it, it does open a door for both of you to be like, wow, there are some things we have to protect here.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

There are some things that we need to do to. Maybe we need to pray more. Maybe I need to, to allow myself to show up for you better as well. And also we can talk about this at any time. You're comfortable too. We don't have to talk about this like right now.

[Renee Kapuku]

It's actually okay.

[Courtney]

In your season of celebration, we can do the celebration. We can come back to this. I'm still going to show up for you. Facts, you know, and that's okay. I think with friendships, especially as we're getting older as well, there's no time to dilly dally around the elephant in the room. And I think the more we let the elephant be in the room, the more it's going to take up all.

[Renee Kapuku]

The space in our friendship and they grow. You know, they do.

[Courtney]

It's going to take. And they have babies ease.

[Renee Kapuku]

They do not. The elephant of jealousy giving birth to something.

[Courtney]

You get what I mean. Something even worse. The next thing you know you've lost your friendship all because of being afraid of. Being afraid of having an awkward conversation. Maybe. Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

You know, the thing about vulnerability is in theory, it sounds so wonderful.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee Kapuku]

Practice.

[Courtney]

Scary.

[Renee Kapuku]

It's so scary.

[Courtney]

It's scary. But I think one, one thing I'm embracing about this stage of my life life is the ability vulnerability has to save a relationship.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So much like vulnerability can really save a relationship. And I think yes, it's easy to want to shy away from it, but when you do, it does leave room for something else to creep in, which is disappointment. Like when you're, when you're, when your friend does not have the full picture as to why you're acting the way you do or why you feel the way you do or why maybe they expected you to be more happy than you actually are and you are not vulnerable about why they're going to fill in the gaps.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And that is disappointing for them because the only conclusion they'll really come to is maybe she's not. Not the sister I thought she was. Yeah, that's tough.

[Renee Kapuku]

That's really upsetting.

[Courtney]

That's a big thing to leave at risk because oftentimes the issue here isn't that I don't love you do you get what I mean? I love you. I'm just hurt about something else or I'm just. I'm just processing through something else or I'm insecure about something else or whatever. I've realized that there's an area of my life, as we were saying before, I'm not fulfilled in. But if I am not vulnerable about that. You filling in the gap with she doesn't love me. Oof.

[Renee Kapuku]

The funny thing is that though we often think that by letting people fill in the gap, we're protecting.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee Kapuku]

You know, that's so ironic.

[Courtney]

No, it never happened. You know, like, you know when you don't come home on time.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Your parents minds never go to. Oh, she's probably at a friend's house. It's. She's dead, they've kidnapped her, they've stabbed her. Like it's. It's always to the most extreme end of the spectrum. Our minds never go to reasonable things.

[Renee Kapuku]

Not even a little bit.

[Courtney]

Unless you've trained yourself to, even then. Exactly. And so you're not sorry.

[Renee Kapuku]

That is so funny because actually our parents do exactly.

[Courtney]

Exactly that.

[Renee Kapuku]

And I hear it then.

[Courtney]

Yeah, me too. If my mom doesn't come back from work on time, I'm thinking, I remember when I was younger, yeah. My mom used to work long days and she used to be home at 9:30pm every day. She'll come through the door same time, Let it hit 9:45. And I call you and your phone doesn't go through. She's dead. They've killed.

[Renee Kapuku]

They've killed her. Unidentified. They have come to grab.

[Courtney]

And I'm only 10. How do I express that? My mom is. Do you get what I. She'll walk in at like 9:50.

[Renee Kapuku]

I'm like, where were you? And it'll be the most innocuous thing. Like, oh yeah, you know, the boss was late.

[Courtney]

Yeah, I just had to fill in a form after work. Handover took a bit longer than I expected. That's the same way we are in our relationships as well. Like we jump to extreme conclusions and I think we shouldn't forget that our friends have the capability of doing the same as well. So yeah, man, let's embrace having more mature conversations. I feel like that's what the next season of TMS is looking like. That's what the next season of life as we get older. I mean, we're turning 28, we had steppers now that's what it's gonna look like.

[Renee Kapuku]

You know what, Courtney, Isn't it mad? Like we started this thing when we were like what, 23. Now we 28.

[Courtney]

23, yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

28.

[Courtney]

There we go. And I always say it's not the age, it's the life stage.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

That's a big jump. We've been through a couple career changes, relationship changes clearly like there's a lot. There's a lot.

[Renee Kapuku]

And we still standing.

[Courtney]

Amen to that.

[Renee Kapuku]

Shout out to all our haters.

[Courtney]

Amen.

[Renee Kapuku]

I still remember that comment we got about, you know, cats and remaining single for the rest of our lives.

[Courtney]

N. You know what I'm done with though. I'm not living for the attention of haters.

[Renee Kapuku]

Guys.

[Courtney]

I've realized in this, in this day and age. Yeah. The fight to make it, it's a hard one. I cannot give my energy you to the focus of a hater. I can't, I can't wrap it up.

[Renee Kapuku]

If you are a hater in 2024, going to 2025, you've got to change your life. You've got to invite the love of the Lord in your life.

[Courtney]

But whatever you choose to do, I don't care, I don't give a damn.

[Renee Kapuku]

As long as it doesn't involve me directly.

[Courtney]

Even if it involves Michelle. I'm not involved. You are involved with me. I'm not involved. Love with you. I'm biting my business.

[Renee Kapuku]

You know what I think in 2024 as well we've got to leave behind just negative comments like I just.

[Courtney]

I hear it, I hear it, I hear it. But whatever you choose to do, I'm focusing on me and mines.

[Renee Kapuku]

It's all about me, my community, my.

[Courtney]

Focus on me and mans minds.

[Renee Kapuku]

Because as for you guys to show up on big big Internet to be the. Anyway that's one of the things I hate about like just the Internet and stuff like that is people be growing balls on the Internet. I'm just like you would, you would never do this in person.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

I ain't never seen. I've seen people that support us come up to us in person. I never been approached by a hater. Cuz we will fight you. We will.

[Courtney]

It's that simple.

[Renee Kapuku]

What?

[Courtney]

Yeah. But you know, Jesus had haters years he did how much more so me that even when he was on that cross and they were killing him, he said father forgive them because that's all he came to do. Assignment baby. As even in the face of the haters assignment is the focus.

[Renee Kapuku]

And also I think it's a test to our friendship. The fact that we have stood amidst some tough times and then sometimes opposition, you know, So I would love to hear about that. Actually courts, like female friendships and having to stand even. I mean, obviously we've actually been super blessed that I don't think we've had like, some serious haters. Like, we haven't been doxed or anything like that. That's what they think. God, yeah. Heaven forbid and all that kind of stuff. But we have come up against some challenges. We have come up against naysayers, we have come up against, you know, nigglings around, is this friendship gonna continue? Etc. Talk to me a little bit about how you've dealt with that, what that sensation has felt like, and how you've also persevered. Because I think one of the biggest challenges of a friendship into longevity is perseverance and actually the will to persevere with the friendship, especially when you're individually going through a tough time, but also you're going through a tough time to get. So.

[Courtney]

It'S a lot. There's a lot to it now. There's a lot to it because I think perseverance is a word that we run from as a generation. And I was one of them. Listen, guys, like, growing up as someone who's a feminist and, you know, but also being a Christian woman, right.

[Renee Kapuku]

You.

[Courtney]

You see a lot of language, the language surrounding women going through tough romantic relationships, specifically around like, oh, but you have to enjoy. You have to persevere. All of these things are virtues, but in that context, they look like life sentences, like death sentences, like perseverance looked like commitment to suffering. Do you get what I mean? Instead of looking like, like journeying through suffering for glorification. Yeah, that, that it wasn't explained that way. And I think for me, I've had to really rebuild my relationship with the virtue of patience, the virtue of perseverance, the virtue of endurance, and seeing these things as virtuous. And not just life sentences to suffering, but genuinely virtues that allow you to experience and last the test of time. The. The test of a trial.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

To then experience the glorification process and experience the beautiful things that lie on the other side of this. Right. Like for our friendship in times where it's like, oh, this is really testing, or this is really hard, reminding myself that it won't be hard forever if it was. That this friendship had always been hard and hardness is all. Hardship is all that we knew. There's nothing to hold on for.

[Renee Kapuku]

But the life cycle.

[Courtney]

Specific. Yeah. It takes a, A specific kind of promise from God for you to be holding on to, for something to have continually been awful. And then you say, but I'm gonna hope, I'm gonna hope for something good at the end. And I think one thing that I've constantly kept in my mind is there is something in regards to our friendship or other female friendships that I have, there is something to hold on to. There are those good memories, there is the fondness, there is the intimacy, there is the love. Love that we share and maybe in a past season we shared that we have lost now. So let's press on to reclaim some of that back. Right? And then what does that look like? That looks like the hard conversations. That looks like the vulnerability. That looks like doing the sticky work.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

The really hard work together, mind you, because a lot of us are used to one sided relationships where it's like you're doing all the work or they're doing all the work. No, no. Both of you need to be working on this thing equally. Once you start working on it, you start to realize why. Well, hopefully you begin to realize that both of you are as invested in this covenant as you are. Because I think that's another thing that can be a source of disappointment. I want to fight for this. They don't care too. Boy, that's painful. That's real painful. But it's okay to want to fight for something. And if you're fighting for something with someone who also wants to fight for it, fight till you win. Fight till you win. And it's not fighting each other is fighting that problem. They always say it with, you know, relationship advice in terms of like marriage advice, but really in friendship it's the same. There's a problem here. What is that problem? Let's identify the enemy and let's fight the enemy. But you are not my enemy. You can't be. You can't be. So allowing yourself to fight the problem together and both of you also being willing to do the individual work it takes to do that fighting and that warfare. Right? Like this is literally what warfare and friendship looks like. It's I need to go off and sharpen my sword. I need to go and sharpen my sword. I need to. They need to go and sharpen my sword. So that when we get together it really is. Iron sharpens iron. Like it's not. I can't be dull and they be sharp. I can't be lacking self awareness and they have the hyper self awareness. There needs to be a great degree of self awareness on both of our parts. There needs to be a great degree of faith on both of our parts. There needs to be a commitment to this thing on both of our parts, and I need to do that. Gearing up in my trenches, boy, it's not their job to gear me up for this. I need to gear myself up for this. I need to ask myself, why are you not giving your all to this friendship anymore? And then work on that myself, and then you take that to that battle you're doing together. So that when we are having the conversation, I'm not going at my friend. Friend. I'm identifying what's our true enemy here. And we're going at that practically, spiritually, emotionally, everything. We're directing our energy towards solving that problem. So practically, what it looks like in that kind of example is, okay, my friend is in a different season than I'm in. Okay, cool. What's the issue here? The issue here is I feel unfulfilled about this part of my life. I'm gonna let my friend in on that information. And then every time we talk about this thing, I'm not going at my friend. We're talking about, okay, how can we help you feel more fulfilled about your life?

[Renee Kapuku]

Yes.

[Courtney]

How can we make sure that this isn't continually triggering you? How can we make sure that you get to a place of understanding that this is just a season for you and know that I'm fully behind you and also realizing that this. This situation is not the full picture of our entire friendship.

[Renee Kapuku]

Right.

[Courtney]

This is not the full picture of our entire friendship. We can do all the other things that bring us joy and remind us that we are not just the men that we are with or we are not just the jobs that we do or whatever is tricking me triggering you. You. I am not just that thing, as much as it can be. It is a huge part of my life. I am not just a mother. I am also your friend.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I can. We can create scenarios which remind you that you still have your friend, you still have your sister, you still have. I'm not just a fiance. I am also your friend. And so let's create environments where I remind you of that, and you can become strong in that. And that's fighting the enemy, in my opinion.

[Renee Kapuku]

How about you, man? Honestly, Courtney, I think you articulated that perfectly.

[Courtney]

I hope so.

[Renee Kapuku]

It really is about fortifying your camp individually and then fortifying it together. I love the big picture. Thinking of fighting the enemy, let's actually normalize fighting the enemy, not fighting your friends who are. Now there's just. When you are left to your own devices. There's this temptation to paint your friend as the enemy. It literally like, face the problem and not your friend. And I think it is through the transparent conversations, it is through the vulnerability, it is through having to face yourself that you come face to face with the real problem. That's literally the only way that you'll be able to uncover the real problem. And I love that you said that perseverance is literally our route to glorification. I think that's even speaking to a biblical truth of what suffering, what perseverance, what all of these big words around endurance are often around. It's about glorification. When I think about our friendship, one thing that I truly love is you make me a better person.

[Courtney]

You too.

[Renee Kapuku]

You make me look more like Jesus. And to have somebody that can say, yo, you actually make me a better person triggers something in me. And how I show up knowing that, oh, okay, cool. This is actually not about me. This is actually about how can I show up, up as a good friend. And I think that's where we often get relationships wrong and why we run away from perseverance is that it requires commitment and it also requires death to self. Yeah, we are an inherently selfish generation, and it's hard to believe that somebody else can have our best interests. And yes, you have to do. You have to prove it over time and spending, you know, getting those receipts with that person. But when you get to a place or of real sisterhood, real friendship, real covenant. Yeah. Covenant really is a signature of death. Death to self. It really is a certificate, it is a decision, it's a commitment that I'm going to keep on ostensibly killing myself every time I interact with you in order to look more like Jesus, in order to be a better person, in order to make sure that you are fulfilled. And if more of us actually approach approached our friendships, not just romantic relationships, but actually our friendship, as an opportunity for us to lay down our lives, we would have way better friendships and way better romantic relationships. I love that you had said in an earlier episode, me being a good friend has helped me to become a better, you know, girlfriend, fiance, wife, whatever. Because at the root of so many of our relationships is even friendship.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

In fact, fact that like, one of the highest forms of relationship is friendship. When I think about even our, you know, relationship with God, one of the highest forms of intimacy is friends. When God calls you friend, that's it. And it's so unfortunate that we've become a generation that sees friendship as one of the most lowest tiers and lowest forms of relationships when really it should be regarded so highly. So I think there's a radical transformation or a radical shift in our perspective as to how much we value friendship and not just value it from a form of transactional what can I gain from this place? But more so, what can I leave? What are the things that I can shed? What are the things that I can do to make sure that this person knows that I'm a friend to them? And if everyone came with that perspective, God, the kinds of like, love that we can experience. Like guys, when we come on this podcast and talk about our. Oh, you know, friendship is life giving and sisterhood is life giving. It's only life giving because the prerequisite is that you lose your life first. You have to lay it at the altar. You need to let go of yourself. Friendship is not just about you and man. I think that's actually one of the single biggest issues of relationships of our time. It's all about me, me, me. What can I gain? What can I gain? We are so self centered and truly, I have gained the most from being as selfless as I possibly could be and knowing that there's some seasons where it's like, okay, cool, I'm actually going through it, but trust and believe that Courtney is going to lay down her life for me. I don't have to worry. And that even emboldens me. So it's like, okay, when Courtney season approaches and she needs support and she needs somebody to lay down their life, I'm ready, I'm prepared, I'm filled. And seeing it like that, it's not a, it's not transactional. It really just is an opportunity and it is a privilege. Like even seeing service in friendship as a privilege. It's been such a beautiful thing to see somebody like you grow and develop in my life. Life. Like to actually say, we've been through some tumultuous seasons, we've been through some storms, but we've also been to the beach. Quite literally, we've been to the beach. The beaches have been various countries, actually, various countries along. May it continue. You've heard us, we're coming, we're coming. We've been to the beach and it's been a privilege. And seeing our. This is such a tangent. But seeing our friendships as privileges, it is a privilege to have a friend. It's a privilege to have a friend. It's a, it's an actual honor to be a friend to somebody and to be somebody's friend. So really I I do think that they're moving into 2025. If there's anything that anyone can learn from to my sisters from this community, from female friendships, is understanding that who you call friend is an honor. You are bestowing onto someone one of the highest forms of, of relational intimacy that you can experience as a human. That one that you call friend Chai legit. That's a sister you've chosen. It's one thing to enter this life with a sister that you know is by force. You're actually blood related. But the sister you've chosen not be small thing, guys. It's not a small thing. It's so, so serious. And I like, I genuinely pray that we look around us as women and say, wow, I'm so blessed to have sisters to the point where I'm even challenged. And I'm charged to be a better sister to the people around me. Me not just in a like self serving, prideful way because I think there's also something that it would be good to touch on actually in that, that false humility or that I'm showing up for my sister so I can say and be puffed up and say, oh, I'm a good person. Right. We're, we're doing all of these actions not because we actually care about the person, but because we want to create this identity of ourselves being, you know, the be all and end all, the best sister, the best friend. Etc. It's actually not about aesthetics. It's not about how it looks to be absolutely a sister. Being a sister is hard. It requires sacrifice, it requires active work and it requires vulnerability. But it also requires you to show your weaknesses too. Not just create this false prism of strength. So laying down your life for your sister, recognizing that sisterhood and friendship is something that is important and it is an honor and a privilege like it, it really is. It's a privilege.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And I, I completely agree. I think in 2025 we'll need to hold grasped on that. Like what you've been saying, funny enough, has been a thought that's been on my head for the last couple of months around that scripture that says greater love have no man than this. Than a man would lay down his life for his friend.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And looking at Jesus, the fact that, that it's described that that sacrifice was to lay down your life for your friend. It could have easily said bride, it could have said child, it could have said creation. But the fact that like you said, God chooses to relate to us as friend and also that that is the Greatest thing attached to the greatest love. The greatest love isn't just wifehood and husbandhood.

[Renee Kapuku]

Right.

[Courtney]

The greatest love isn't just father and child or mother and child. The greatest love is actually, actually friendship. Mainly because friendship is a choice.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yes.

[Courtney]

And the, the beauty of friendship as well is, like you said, the selflessness, but the fact that it is not just self serving, especially in a networking generation. So many of us can become used to the idea that friendships are about what I can get. However, when you look at the truest, most selfless definition of friendship, I have no gain to give you this much of my time. I just do it because I love who you are. And I think that's the beauty of friendship. It's. Why do these people love me? They don't have sex with me. I am not their supply of provision. I am not their blood relative. They have no duty towards me. So why did they choose me? Because of who you are. And that is the greatest display of God's love for us. Why does God love us? I have no idea. We keep letting him down and yet he chooses to call us friend. Right. And so when you try, when he tries, it's about bridging that broken gap. And I think a lot of us need to start honoring that. Friendship is the site of one of the most selfless forms of love.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

That you can find in this world. And therefore we should give it that kind of dignity because a lot of this, the identity and the value that we're searching in other relationships, relationships for, can actually be found in our friendships. Right. And I think when we have that kind of honor for friendship, we'll really see the world change, as you said. Because at the end of the day, everyone's always wanting to do spiritual maturity when it comes to their wife and their husband and becoming a wife, becoming a husband, serving in a ministry, whatever it is, all these things which give us a new title, title. But we don't care to do it for being a good friend. Because to us the title of friend means nothing. When actually the title of friend is a great honor, means everything. For someone to call you friend is a big honor. And for you to also take up the title of friend means you're taking up a duty. When you look at Jesus and his disciples, his duty to them was to disciple them, them and they were his friends. His duty to us was to lay down his life for us. And he called us friend. So that means that when you have a friend, you have a duty. Jonathan and David. Jonathan took it very personally that David's life be protected. He took it very personally that David would go on to achieve his calling and his purpose, even though it meant he wasn't going to get an inheritance. Right. But he took it personally. Cuz that title of friend is very weighty. It's very heavy. And because we're so used to throwing it around and no one takes the intentional time to teach us what it means and the weight of carrying it, we treat it as though it's some flimsy thing. But it is a calling and it is an office. It is a ministry. To be a friend, to be a brother, to be a sister. Are that hedge of protection around you called sisterhood is something to be honored?

[Renee Kapuku]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And so we need to spend a lot more time in our lives. And I think to My sisters and so many other platforms I'm seeing now, like Stephen Bartlett was talking about it. I think Simon Sinek was talking about it. Like we don't talk enough about how to be a good friend.

[Renee Kapuku]

Yes.

[Courtney]

And so many adults are questioning what does it mean to be a good friend. And I think it's because we're becoming awakened to the. Sorry. I think it's because we're becoming awakened to the fact that friendship is a heavy responsibility.

[Renee Kapuku]

Heavy.

[Courtney]

And it's such a fulfilling thing. It's such a fulfilling gift. Yeah.

[Renee Kapuku]

Mic drop moment.

[Courtney]

It's such a fulfilling gift to be a friend. To be a friend and to have a friend. So yeah, guys, go outside and make some friends, man.

[Renee Kapuku]

Go outside and make some friends. This feels appropriate to now say that if you haven't gotten a copy of the To My Sisters book, if you are confused about how to be a good friend, if you are still doubting about the value of building lifelong friendships. Dang. We got a book for you. And it might just be the book that you needed this Christmas to enter into 2025.

[Courtney]

Wow. Facts. Go and pick it up. It's on Amazon. All good bookstores, as they say. All good.

[Renee Kapuku]

What a good one.

[Courtney]

Definitely go and pick up a copy of our book. And also Sisters in South Africa. We'll see you very soon. We are coming 1st of February to do two my sisters live in South Africa. And this year, you know, we had to make it to Cape Town. We had to make it to Cape Town.

[Renee Kapuku]

I know you guys are going to be so happy. At last.

[Courtney]

At last. So yeah. Very exciting stuff. Grab a. A ticket link is in the description. I will talk to y'all real soon.

[Renee Kapuku]

Wow.

[Courtney]

Well, as we close out the year definitely make sure that you follow us on social media at to my Sisterhood, literally everywhere. And be sure to follow us individually. My bestie at Renee Kapuku and me at CD Bossing.

[Renee Kapuku]

Absolutely. And if you want to stay abreast of everything, to my sisters especially, I was waiting to use it. Especially with the upcoming show in South Africa. There's some really exciting updates. It's going to be a show with a little bit of a. A little bit of a little bit of something something. Make sure you sign up to our mailing list ww.com to stay abreast with those updates.

[Courtney]

We love to see it. Well sis, we hope that you have an amazing, amazing Christmas and we'll see you next week for the last episode of 2024 Teardrop. We can't wait to see you one last time before we cross over into the New Year. We love you and we hope that this episode was actually helpful to you in some way. Leave a comment down below if it was. We'll talk to you very, very soon. And as always, keep glowing and growing. A patient's recovery is only as good as their treatment plan and for adult patients with bcg, unresponsive, non muscle invasive.

[Renee Kapuku]

Bladder cancer, carcinoma in situ or nmibccis.

[Courtney]

Anktiva is an important treatment option to consider.

[Renee Kapuku]

This immunotherapy harnesses the body's natural immune response and works alongside bcg.

[Courtney]

It's a non surgical option that's been shown to produce durable, complete responses up to four years for some patients, enabling.

[Renee Kapuku]

Them to avoid or postpone surgical removal of the bladder.

[Courtney]

Sounds like the doctor needs me. Ask your doctor if Anktiva is right for you. Patients treated with an BCG may still be at risk for more serious muscle invasive or metastatic bladder cancer, which could be life threatening if bladder removal is delayed. If you don't respond to a second round of Anktiva with bcg, bladder removal surgery should be considered before starting activa. Tell your doctor if you're pregnant or planned to become pregnant, as antiva may cause fetal harm. Common side effects include abnormal laboratory results, increased creatinine, painful urination, blood and urine, frequent urination, urgent need to urinate, urinary tract infections, high potassium, muscle pain, chills and fever. For more information, visit anktiva.com or call 1-877-Anktiva 1-877-265-8482.