The Girl Boss is Back: Why Ambitious Women Make People Uncomfortable

Summary

Podcast Summary: To My Sisters

Episode: The Girl Boss is Back: Why Ambitious Women Make People Uncomfortable

Hosts: Courtney Daniella Boateng & Renée Imafidon
Release Date: May 17, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, Courtney and Renée explore the discomfort that society often feels in response to ambitious women—the so-called "girl bosses." They examine why women’s ambition can be so polarizing, the pressures for palatability tied to people-pleasing, and how privilege intersects with narratives of work and success. Drawing on recent internet discussions about powerhouse women like Emma Grede, Grace Beverley, and Patricia Bright, the hosts celebrate diverse forms of ambition and encourage listeners to be unafraid of pursuing an unapologetic version of success.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Dilemma: Toxic Friendships and Self-worth

[10:16 – 24:12]

• A listener shares her experience of being introduced by a friend to a man who turned out abusive, non-ambitious, and exploitative.
• The friend, who barely knew the man, sided with him and trivialized the listener’s pain.
• Courtney and Renée offer tough love:
  • Courtney: "That’s not your friend. That’s your enemy. Because any friend that can recommend that caliber of man and stand up for… after all the things that he did with you. Sorry." [22:38]
• The hosts urge the listener (and others in similar situations) to remember the pain as motivation not to return, to write down their experiences, and to set new boundaries:
  • Courtney: "Write all of these things down and maybe read it once a month… because potential… gambles often go wrong." [18:09]
  • Renée: "You need to remind yourself of your worth… there is some work that you need to do around your value." [20:28]

2. The Palatable Woman & Conversations on Balance

[24:13 – 41:01]

• Addressing recurring public debates on whether women "can have it all," the hosts dissect why this discourse is so volatile:
  • The “palatable woman” archetype is about making yourself acceptable to others.
  • Emma Grede and others represent women who unapologetically prioritize their ambitions and are sometimes judged for it.
  • Courtney: "People love the idea of women having rights and freedom until they pick the option that they wouldn’t pick." [28:52]
• Discussion on the myth of “balance”:
  • Society often tells women to “balance” everything, but the reality is that priorities shift over time and by choice.
  • Renée: "Taking a seasonal approach to my life… they represent options." [33:38]
• Ambition comes in diverse forms:
  • Not all ambition looks the same; for some, staying home is the dream, while for others it’s scaling a corporate ladder.

3. Ambition, Systemic Barriers, and Privilege

[41:17 – 50:57]

• Acknowledgement of privilege is crucial:
  • The hosts highlight that many highly visible ambitious women have unique access to resources:
    • Renée: "Some of y’all is white. Some of y’all is married to white people. Some of y’all have access to privileges that quite a lot of women… do not." [41:50]
  • Proximity to wealth and the compounding power of success creates a gap:
    • Courtney: "Exceptionalism is killing my people… sometimes you are the exception to the rule, but the rule still stands." [45:19]
• Call for humility in motivational narratives:
  • Courtney critiques the “we all have the same 24 hours” argument, emphasizing that systemic barriers mean not everyone starts from the same place:
    • "You cannot personal development your way out of systemic oppression." [44:19]

4. Advice for Ambitious Women Battling People-Pleasing

[51:29 – 60:08]

• Exposure to diverse examples is key:
  • Courtney: "Expose yourself to as many examples as possible. You don’t know what you don’t know… The more women who you get to know, who are living and walking different walks of life… the more you’ll be exposed to the possibilities that are available to you." [52:02]
• The cost of ambition is sometimes being disliked:
  • Renée: "You have got to get the courage to be disliked. There’s a book on it and I would recommend you read it… If you want to live an exceptional life by your own terms, you have got to be willing to—sorry—piss off a lot of people." [56:03]
  • Courtney: "That people-pleasing itch that needs to be scratched by people’s validation… It’s not gonna work… The majority is the average." [55:03]
• Don’t project bitterness onto others:
  • Renée: "Try to do it before… what the world has told you to be encase and become bitterness to other women… you’re now projecting." [57:49]

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On painful lessons:

  • Courtney: "Sometimes you need the pain, you need the scar. You need to remember the tomfoolery that you went through in order to never return back to that rubbish." [17:09]

• On making yourself small:

  • Courtney: "People are constantly projecting onto [women] what they should want." [40:23]

• On privilege in the ambition discourse:

  • Renée: "It’s not that you haven’t worked hard. I think you’ve forgotten what it feels like to work hard at that level." [50:21]

• On diverse ambitions:

  • Courtney: "Ambition is the fuel that springs you out of your current circumstance into the future that you want. But we are all living in very different current circumstances." [30:16]

• On courage and taking risks:

  • Renée: "Take the risk that you’ve been avoiding. Stop waiting for permission… Even this podcast, as you’re listening, please, always go and take the risk you need to." [59:32]

---

Notable Segment Timestamps

• Dilemma from Listener about Friendships and Toxic Men: [10:16 – 24:12]
• Why Are Ambitious Women So Triggering?: [24:13 – 32:58]
• Privilege, Race, and Class in the Girl Boss Narrative: [41:17 – 50:57]
• Practical Advice for People-Pleasers & Unpalatable Women: [51:29 – 60:08]

---

Conclusion

Courtney and Renée challenge their listeners to interrogate their own ambitions, let go of people-pleasing, and pursue the life they truly want—even if it’s unpopular. They celebrate the importance of diverse examples of womanhood and ambition, stress the role of systemic privilege, and remind their “sisters” that discomfort and even dislike are part of treading an extraordinary path.

---

For the full conversation and further community support, listeners are encouraged to join the To My Sisters community via YouTube, Substack, and their newsletter.

---

“If you want something that the majority agree with, you’re going to end up with the average life. And so if you’re wildly ambitious, you have to be okay with the majority not being on your side.”
— Courtney, [55:04]

Transcript

[Advertisement Voice]

Running a business means juggling a lot of moving parts. And when your communication tools can't keep up, things start to slip. Missed calls, slow replies, scattered conversations. They're not just frustrating, they're lost opportunities and revenue left on the table. That's where Quo comes in. Spelled Q U O. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2, trusted by over 90,000 businesses. One shared business number for calls and texts. So every conversation stays visible, organized and accountable. It works from an app or computer. You can keep your existing number, add teammates and sync your CRM, letting you scale without adding complexity. And with built in AI, Quo logs, calls, summarizes conversations and flags next steps. Even after hours. Stop missing customers. Stop leaving revenue on the table. Try quo free and get 20% off your first six months at quo.com tech. That's qU-U-O.com tech. No missed calls, no missed customers.

[Courtney]

I'll slap you in your face.

[Renee]

Courtney. You became verbally and financially abusive. Called me emotionally weak, body, shamed me, felt entitled to my money.

[Courtney]

This man lied to you about his age. He didn't want to work. He was using you for money. He then proceeded to insult you.

[Renee]

That's the cherry chop there.

[Courtney]

Yeah. People love the idea of women having rights and freedom until they pick the option that they wouldn't pick.

[Renee]

Who is in poverty Right now, the overwhelming majority are women.

[Courtney]

Yes. Some people are in bondage to work because of system. That's not someone who needs to buy a book. That's somebody who needs a scholarship.

[Renee]

Emma Greaves, your grace Beverly, your Patricia Brights. They are in constant conversation on the Internet when we are discussing, you know, can women have it all?

[Courtney]

Yeah. To my sisters who are figuring out what they want in life. Hello and welcome to the To My Sisters podcast. I'm Courtney.

[Renee]

And I'm Renee. And we are your online sisters and hosts of the To My Sisters podcast.

[Courtney]

We are all about promoting the wellness, growth and development of a community of sisters around the world.

[Renee]

And in today's conversation, we are going to be talking about the palatable woman. Can women really have it all? Being an ambitious woman, cramming the corporate ladder, wanting to do all the things. Listen, we have been on the Internet streets and a certain young lady, well, quite a few ladies have been popping up recently. Your Emma Greaves, your Grace Beverlys, your Patricia Brights. They are in constant conversation on the Internet when we are discussing, you know, can women have it all? Yeah. So we thought it would be a great time to have that conversation, especially given that, you know, if you have been watching the TMS streets recently, we've had a string of illustrious, ambitious women in their own fields and industries. And I think it's important for us to weigh in on this conversation, especially where we're currently at in our life stages. The fact that it keeps on coming up as a conversation, especially when a lot of us as women are really starting to think about what do we really want for our lives.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Renee]

So very timely.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I'm very excited for this conversation. I even think, like, even our own conversations offline have really touched on this. And so I think it's very relevant for women who are building, women who are growing and evolving and like, analyzing, okay, what are my ambitions? What do I want? To have life. And realizing that you don't have to be one type of woman to succeed.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

And thrive. But sometimes people are only comfortable with one type of woman thriving and succeeding.

[Renee]

So even gotten into them. Yeah.

[Courtney]

How do you get comfortable being the outlier, being the one that the. The people that don't like, you know, it's a conversation.

[Renee]

It's a conversation.

[Courtney]

It's a conversation.

[Renee]

We are just getting into it. But I guess before we get into it, do we have any housekeeping announcements? Is the house question.

[Courtney]

It feels like we haven't recorded in a minute.

[Renee]

I know.

[Courtney]

That's because we actually recorded, like, two months ago. Shout out to the we are executive brand box team for hooking us up with our last shoot. If you guys noticed, we leveled up. Okay. Season seven, different energy really perfected. Okay. And that was due to Regina Kwarte, who was a guest last week, and her amazing business and company, BrandBox. And we wanted to really elevate this season because we are elevating, we are evolving. And I think that was really reflected in the visuals, the guests and all the women we have had on. Oh, my gosh, the conversations have been amazing. So enriching. I mean, from Regina, Ebony, vswa, Susan, all the girls, Benedicta, like, all of them. Did I leave out anybody? I said five. Mimi, Mimi, Mimi, Mimi. I think to myself about all these women and, like, the. The angles that they brought in. And I really just wanted to say thank you to them. Thank you for being transparent, for being honest. What comes to mind, especially because of what we're talking about today, is Vuhi episode, which is what actually sparked our offline conversation around, okay, how's this going to be received? But I think it was so brilliant that over the last six or so episodes, we've been able to Showcase different women who are taking different approaches to life, who have taken different roads to who they are now. And yet we could all converge in the sisterhood on this platform to discuss the lessons, to discuss the successes and the failures and the regrets and the, you know, the wisdom. And it wouldn't have been possible without them coming to shame. Shared decades and decades and decades of experience in so many different areas, from the corporate world to business to ministry to investing. I think it's just absolutely wonderful. And I really wanted to give a big shout out to Regina for orchestrating that. Yeah. Because in your life, you actually need someone who's an orchestrator, someone who can pull together so many different things. I think Regina called them the connector. Like the person who brings together so many different people and can connect you all together to kind of make purpose and vision happen.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So it's great to have a system sister like that.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And, yeah, very, very grateful to her. Very grateful for you guys, for watching. And we'll be working with Brand Box again, God willing, later on this year. And I actually was talking to Regina about maybe making a little TMS Brand Box situation happen, because I think personal branding is such a big deal for the girls. Yeah. Right now you've got to level up. I'm telling you. We've been working on ourselves. Now it's time to arise and shine. Shine. And so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So keep your eyes. Eyes peeled for that. But great stuff is coming. Yeah. The housekeeping. How about you? Any housekeeping?

[Renee]

Is there any housekeeping?

[Courtney]

Oh, I have another one. Sorry, sorry.

[Renee]

No, no, no.

[Courtney]

Go subscribe to Renee's newsletter.

[Renee]

I'll stop it. You.

[Courtney]

Renee has also had a cheeky rebrand. You talking about optimize she. Okay, okay. Not optimize me. Optimize she. Fellas, get out. Okay. Go away.

[Renee]

Kick rocks.

[Courtney]

Kick rocks. Eat dust. Okay. No, but Renee is killing us. Back to back on substack, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

[Renee]

Substack. Substack.

[Courtney]

She's a writer. All right. No, no. Substack. And genuinely, the things that you're writing are so wonderful. Obviously. I read your recent one about the God of AI, and genuinely, I think it is so revolutionary. Literally just converging so many different hot topics and bringing in academia, bringing in biblical wisdom, bringing in your own experience and passion for women and their health. And so go and subscribe to my friend's newsletter. Don't be an idiot.

[Renee]

I feel like a guest pasta. Thank you.

[Courtney]

Thank you.

[Renee]

Yeah, you should subscribe to that.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You should subscribe to my YouTube channel. That's what she's going to come and tell you. Come on, let's get into the episode.

[Renee]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Just say meaning. Wait just a minute. You're not only subscribing to Courtney's YouTube channel, you are subscribing to a hundred K. Even as we're speaking this 100K don't pass. Yeah, even as we're speaking, we will

[Courtney]

need to go check number soon, guys, because something's coming. I can't celebrate until the thing is ready, so we're coming.

[Renee]

You headed here?

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Renee]

If you have been praying goatly and you have not subscribed, I believe they call it a hater in my book. Don't be a hitter inside my book. But genuinely, congratulations, Congrats for coming back to YouTube. Hot and piping. I've literally been telling her, look, I've been watching since I'm 17 years old, since the beginning, but there is just something so exceptional about you as a creator. You are so excellent. Not only is your mind excellent, but the quality of the videos. Hey, me, I'll be cooking, doing meal prepping. I'll be like, let me put Courtney on in the background because let me get double dosage of my frame because. So shout out to you. Oh, nice and honor, like an actual OG YouTuber. You to me are an OG creator. And the fact that you're a such still here, you're still shining and the fact that you're continuing to level up as well, you really are the epitome of elevation for me.

[Courtney]

So good. I'm very glad for the chance to even come back and make content and just have a community that's still with. So sister, shout out to y'. All. No, genuinely, genuinely. But yeah, that's life. That's the updates. That's the housekeeping. Yeah, we have some events coming. Don't say that we sold you here. If you caught that, you caught that.

[Renee]

A mere crumb. Anyway, anyway, anyway, yeah, we're gonna go straight into a ding, ding, ding dilemma. Especially because the girls thought that we are abandoned. But if you have been following us on Instagram and YouTube, we have been dropping the girls dilemmas and the girls have been invested in supporting them. So thank you to every single sister that has actually sat down and responded to these dilemmas. I'm sure the sisters that have submitted the dilemmas are like, wow. Yeah, I have a community of people behind me, so thank you.

[Courtney]

Love it.

[Renee]

I will try and be as succinct as possible. But it might not be possible. So I will try my best. All right. Hi, Mrs. Sisters.

[Courtney]

Wow. That one is new.

[Renee]

Do you know how funny that is?

[Courtney]

Oh, my God. I was recently speaking at a conference. Sorry to interrupt. I was recently speaking at a conference and somebody was introduced as Pastor Mrs. She Got up there, she said, don't ever call me that ever again. It's Pastor Mrs.

[Renee]

You know, when they dry out. Hello, welcome to Pastor Mrs.

[Courtney]

Doctor.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

All for one person. How greedy.

[Courtney]

But, yeah. Sorry, Sisters is fine.

[Renee]

Misses Sisters. Sorry, Sorry.

[Courtney]

We have.

[Renee]

We don't have time.

[Courtney]

We don't have time. Yeah.

[Renee]

So glad you're back. I can resume cooking.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Renee]

I can't cook if TMS isn't playing. Lol.

[Courtney]

Come on.

[Renee]

God bless you for this healthy space. I am glad for everything he is doing in your lives. It's wild that your next episode is on female friendships. Oh, how do you know? You don't know. Maybe it is. Maybe it is. But it's gonna get this. Because that's exactly what I need. I'm 25, and last year I entered my first real relationship. My friend introduced me to a guy she claimed she'd known for years. He lived out of state. Wasn't really my type. I'm not saying that because we're over. He was fresh from Ghana to pursue his first degree, but not ambitious. And very prideful. The list goes on.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Renee]

I was hesitant, but she promised me he was a genuine person. Fast forward. After two months of dating, she pro. She surprised me with a visit from him. I was excited. Then they broke the news that they had only met a week or two prior to introducing him to me on Snapchat. He pursued her, but she had a boyfriend and I was the single friend she recommended.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Renee]

I couldn't chase him out of my apartment, so he stayed for six weeks, met my overprotective grandian mother. Never even told her when I would crush. And I lost my virginity to him. That wasn't the plan. I wanted to wait, but I was scared to lose him and felt stuck in a corner. Yeah.

[Courtney]

By who? Jesus is lord and king.

[Renee]

He painted the narrative of someone who could never hurt me. Well, my ob Gyn. So I'm sorry. I noticed people have different ways of saying that. I realize. Ob Gyny.

[Courtney]

Ob GYN ob My ob Gyn Ob Gin. It's okay. So fresh.

[Renee]

It's fine.

[Courtney]

You said different people ways. My ob Gyn.

[Renee]

My ob Gyn saw me a lot over those six weeks. Because my body consistently rejected him. Painful experience. Anyway, he became verbally and financially abusive, called me emotionally weak, body shamed me, felt entitled to my money and refused to work. You get the message? Narcissistic. Oh, my friend kept saying, that's just Ghanaian men and how they show love.

[Courtney]

Wow.

[Renee]

I never lived with my Ghanaian father or dated one, so I took the advice of a expert. I was also very insecure, so I let a lot slide. He cheated on me with an 18 year old. For context, he's 27. 21 in America. Cough. She laughed as I was hurting over this breakup and said it's only because if someone is sad, you need to make the situation lighter. She would say that she didn't want to pick sides. She never even knew the guy after I blocked him. She still keeps tabs on him and would often bring him up. Even though I'm trying to heal, I'm trying to pull away from her. But I'm too forgiven and such a people pleaser. How do I let this friendship go peacefully? How do I stop falling full potential, especially for men with just birth certificates? As a woman who is pursuing her master's degree, we live with no regrets. But that was single handed. Worst experience of my life. And only to think my close friend was behind us all to begin with. Help your people. Pleasing and insecure little sis.

[Courtney]

Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay, well, we're here now. We've arrived.

[Renee]

We've done. We've done.

[Courtney]

Land number one. I want to tell you that it's not your friend. It can never be your friend and it has never been your friend. A friend that can put her friend with somebody who they've only known for a week. First of all, that's somebody who doesn't even care about their own reputation. Because you can't vouch for someone who you even barely know, let alone allow your friend, someone who you consider a close friend, to date them knowing that you vouched for them. I mean, is she even a serious person if she doesn't even care about her own reputation in that way, that is sheer wickedness. Number two, I just want to put a disclaimer. Not all Ghanaian men are like that. But also, I'm not guardian man. So it's not me that's going to do PR for them. But I just don't want your mind to be tainted. That is not normal. You cannot put someone's bad behavior down to a country because it will always be a negative excuse for why they can behave badly. That man was just down, dirty and Wrong.

[Renee]

That's right.

[Courtney]

Number three. I'm very sorry you went through this and none of it is your fault per se because, yeah, I think women get blamed for allowing bad men into their lives. Yes, even that, like word of allowing. You didn't know he was going to be bad. You gave this guy a shot and he turned out to be delivered. Hand delivered by the devil. Yes, I would say, first of all, if you are struggling, you need to let go of this friend. I hope you know that. So in terms of how you can let go of this, she said, that's decided. Yeah, yeah, that's for that one. Oh, yeah. Out of here. In terms of how you can let go of them and how you can let go of maybe not falling in love with potential, it's very simple. I need you to remember every time you went to your OB GYN and what this man cost you, the pain inflicted on your body, your sexual health, your peace of mind. Just remember the pain. I love that you said we have no regrets because sometimes you need the pain, you need the scar. You need to remember the tomfoolery that you went through in order to never to return back to that rubbish genuinely. So I just want you to open your journal right now and just pour out every pain that he inflicted on you. You're going to rip out that page. You're going to stick it on your wall, mark it on your wall. Then whenever a man walks into your life with just pot back and you read it, whenever your friend messages you, hey, sis, just checking in. You go back and you read it. You remember when all these things were happening to you and your insides and you were vomiting and your vagina was this. And you remember all of it, my sweetie, because you need a. A reason to not run back, does it? Because potential. I think when we, when we bank on potential, we are forgetting that this is a gamble. And gambles often go wrong. Yeah, gambles often go wrong. And so wait for people to show you who they are. In this case, the guy and your friend have shown you exactly who they are. Believe them. But in the future, when you're trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, giving people the benefit of the doubt is giving them the opportunity to show you who they are. And once they show you who they are, believe them. And when I say give them the opportunity to show you who you are, you don't put yourself in the firing line. You wait to see how they treat other things in their life. Like I said about your friend, if she doesn't even care about her own reputation enough to recommend you a guy who she's fully vetted, who she can fully vouch for, whose character she's inspected. Especially being a woman in a relationship and knowing how. I mean, I don't know what her relationship is like, but knowing how intimate that is and how much this person having access to you could affect your life. If she can't even make sure that she's recommending to you someone who would keep you safe, that's not somebody who even cares about their own name, their own reputation, and their own relationships enough to be in a relationship with you, in my opinion.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

That is somebody who you cannot trust. And so I guess, assess that, observe that.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And then you decide, okay, I'm worth more than that. I'm actually worse. I didn't need to take all these trips to the doctor. I'm perceiving she's in the States. That's not even free.

[Renee]

So

[Courtney]

this man lied to you about his age. He didn't want to work. He was using you for money. He then proceeded to insult you, probably putting inside of you all kinds of insecurities. And so just write all of these things down and maybe read it once a month, you know, biggest man thing in loving memory. Biggest man thing. Because we can even begin to romanticize our past experiences. Sometimes you need to read how you felt in that exact moment to remember how far you've come and to not allow anybody to drag you back there, including anybody who comes with ev. Even a mere whiff of a similar aroma around them. So that's what I have to say.

[Renee]

What about you, Courtney? Honestly, I think you articulated exactly how I feel. Thanks. I think it is absolutely preposterous. Do you know when you actually need to dig into your vocabulary to find the adequate word to just articulate how you're.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

I think it is preposterous.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

That a friend of yours would introduce you to somebody that is, in fact, fact her leftovers. As in this man came to her first knowing that she has a boyfriend. And then her bright idea was, you know who I think you'd be good for? My friend.

[Courtney]

Quite. My friend.

[Renee]

My friend.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Because she's single and available. What does that actually say about how your friend sees you?

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

That this is the bare minimum kind of partner. Listen, there are some men that can never touch my friends that exist. They can. You can never make it.

[Courtney]

No, no.

[Renee]

The bar is up here.

[Courtney]

No.

[Renee]

For you to even get a contact detail. But this whole. They pulled up at Your house. Excuse me, a grown man that doesn't have anything together.

[Courtney]

And then she said he stayed there for six weeks.

[Renee]

Yeah, I met your mom jobless. Hey, met your mom jobless. It's terrible, girl. And I love the fact that you said, look, I need. You need to remind yourself of your worth because clearly there is something internal. There's some work that you need to do around your value and understanding your value that you know, you do not need to tolerate being in this kind of relationship, if you can call it that. Was there a relationship? Did the man ask you to be his girlfriend? In fact, were you guys exclusive? I'm even doubting that because the way that this person treated you, which was also co. Signed by your friend, it's not giving somebody that genuinely cares for you and wants to be in a committed relationship with you so much so that they can even go and cheat on you with someone who is significantly younger than you. Guys, guys. 27, 18. Listen, I'm not one to judge, but there we are.

[Courtney]

We are.

[Renee]

I'm put my opinion. Let me just say it's my opinion because what, what, what, what does one that is 27 have to do with one that is 18?

[Courtney]

A good question.

[Renee]

I would like to know. So, sir, this is not the podcast for the man. The man should go and find somebody that he needs to go and listen to. But sis, value yourself more. And I love what you. The suggestion about reminding yourself where you were, who you were once a month, maybe once a week. Once a week, sister. Because you are worth so much more than that. And you do not have to put on, you know, you up with this assault to your physical, mental and emotional health. All as in how can somebody actually be that detrimental to all facets of your being?

[Courtney]

Literally a 360 assault. As in you're going to the OB Gen. Yeah, OBJ. That's correct.

[Renee]

You're with a man.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Renee]

Financially, is abused, he ain't got nothing. And you're. In fact, that's the cherry on top that you're obj.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Nah, get. Nah, nah.

[Renee]

If I were you, I would even. You know, when you do hypnosis, Stephen, forget about it. Forget about it. Once it has gone into your spirit, you need to do some kind of hypnotic therapy to forget about it because that's.

[Courtney]

Sorry.

[Renee]

Yeah. You are worth so much more. I'm glad that you left this man. But now you need to leave this friend.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Nah, that friend. Friend.

[Renee]

That's not your friend. That's your enemy. That's your enemy. That's actually your sword enemy. Because any friend that can recommend that caliber of man and stand up for, mind you, a man that she had not known any longer than you had known him and be standing on him after all the things that he did with you. Sorry.

[Courtney]

And then on top of that, be laughing about your situation. This is not a laughing matter. Talking about. I'm trying to make the situation lighter and brighter. I'll slap you in your face. Don't even try.

[Renee]

I swear, I literally was just thinking it's because people don't get beat up anymore. It's because people don't get beat up anymore.

[Courtney]

What do you mean? I've got to make the situation lighter and brighter. Why are you laughing at my downfall? That is not a friend.

[Renee]

You are there, Kiki, with your little boyfriend, knowing that your friend has just been treated badly by the man that you rejected. How wicked.

[Courtney]

Yeah, how terrible. Terrible. Anyway, leave that friend alone. And all the best, sis. Honestly, all the best. You'll find someone much better. This situation and this, this. Yeah, the situation would have taught you a lot. And this experience will give you guidance for the future. Sometimes we need to feel, you know, sometimes those are. Those are the best. Those are the experiences that teach us the best lessons.

[Renee]

Yes. Yes.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Well, sister, we're sending all our love and prayers to you. Sisters waiting. We're probably gonna release this dilemma to the masses on the Instagram. So when it does come, please, we need you guys to Avengers assemble. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hopefully not only the sister will see this, but her ex friend and her X man. Because clearly some people need to be

[Courtney]

flogged on the streets.

[Renee]

They need to be flogged. But yeah, segueing into the conversations, the meat and bones, the palatable woman.

[Courtney]

Yes.

[Renee]

To add a little bit of context to the conversation, for those who may not have come across your Emma Greeds or your Grace Beverly's or, you know, Patricia Bright. These are all women that in their own right are doing incredible things. They are business owners, they are career oriented women. They are either in the midst of building a family or have, you know, they have a family or whatnot. And the reason why each and every one of them have been coming up repeatedly, I guess, over the last couple of weeks or months or so. Emma Grid, particularly because she's obviously, obviously got a book coming out and she's been on various podcasts and having conversations about, you know, what it takes to get ahead as a woman in corporate or, you know, in the entrepreneurial lane. And that hasn't been very sexy. I think the narratives that we often see shared to women is one of balance or one of, you know, you'll get to a point where you need to prioritize your family or, you know, some of the traditional patriarchal narratives that we're very accustomed to. Whereas Mr. Came out and said, look, look, when I'm with my kids, I'm with my kids for like three hours and they get the best free hour mum day.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

But I am very much focused on all of the other things in my life. And, you know, I love going 100 in those areas. Right. We had a similar conversation, funnily enough, with Ve Swa. Yes. If you guys have not listened to that podcast episode, recommend going to check it out. It was such an illuminating conversation. So good. But I guess I wanted to start with why is it that this kind of rhetoric is so inflammatory? This whole conversation around, you know, balance and prioritization and women having to choose and it's either you're a career oriented woman or you are the woman that's like prioritizing and taking some time out to be with her family.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Why is it so inflammatory for so many people, men, women, whoever, alike. It just seems to be something that hits the wrong something, something in everybody every time it comes up. What's the issue we can't balance? So why does this conversation keep coming up again and again in your opinion, Courtney? And why does it touch on the nerves of so many.

[Courtney]

You know what? I think it's interesting. I think it's because they're attacking this concept of balance in the sense that, you know, women for a long time have been taught, oh, you just need to learn to balance it all. And we're constantly asking questions like, how can I balance my. My time and give priority or enough time to everything in my life, whether it be being a career woman, a business owner, a mother, a wife, maybe like a daughter, if you're taking care of your parents, like all these different things. Right. And oftentimes we are then told, you can't balance everything. At certain seasons or in certain seasons of your life, different things are going to have to take a priority.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And that the concept of balance is a mix myth. But I think when people give that advice, they basically subconsciously are telling women, when it comes down to you having a family, you're gonna have to put your family first.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And all of these, you know, ideas of being a high flying career woman, they die the moment you enter that labor ward. I hope you know that do you get what I mean? It's a birthing and a funeral. And I think people like Grace Beverly, I think people like Emma Green in particular, and her PR run with start with yourself. I think she's telling women, yes, balance is a myth. Yes, in certain seasons of your life, you're going to have to prioritize family. But also there will come a season after you have children, even if they're still young, because her children are still quite young, that you can prioritize your career again. And I think people don't like that message. I think they like the idea of women laying their ambitions as the sacrifice for the family. But she's coming in and many women are demonstrating now, women who have climbed to the top of the corporate ladder, that actually, no, my family can be a priority in one season. But a time will come where that season ends, and I'm going to place them to the side and I'm going to center my career ambitions. Right. And it doesn't stop me from being a mother. Like she said, she's a present mother in those three hours. Those are the best three hours she could give her kids. I'm here for you. And what I love is, I see so many women chiming into that and being like, absolutely, yes. Because even for the woman whose career is not at the center of her life, she also does not want being a mother to be the central tenant of her identity. And I also think that that's very important to allow women to have. I think people love the idea of women having rights and freedom until they pick the option that they wouldn't pick.

[Renee]

Yeah, right.

[Courtney]

When they start ruffling feathers. Everyone wants women to have choices until they choose something which they don't like. And these women are showing, I'm exercising my right to choose. And you may not like it and you don't have to like it, but it doesn't stop me from having the right to make that choice. Right. And I genuinely think there's a. There's another side to it which ruffles other people's feathers in that it makes them feel like, damn, am I not being ambitious enough?

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Am I not doing enough? Here is a woman who is working proper, hard. Right. And I think it's important for us as women to remember someone's hard may not look like your hard. Your life is not the same. You can. I see there's a particular rhetoric that I see in support of the emigrates. Right. Which is, you know, she's talking to the ambitious woman and Some of you just won't get it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And it's like, no, no, no. Some people's ambitions look different.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

It's not that they are not ambitious, it's that their ambitions look different. Right. And if we are to support and champion women, we must remember that they are allowed to have diverse ambitions.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

For a particular woman, the idea of getting to be a stay at home mom is actually very ambitious because she's grown up in a place where you had to work from, a place of survival. This was not about women's empowerment. This was about slavery. This was about false responsibility. This was about coming from a place of poverty. So actually being a stay at home mom and, and having a partner who can support you or maybe having investments enough to the point where you can choose. I'm retiring at 32. Do you get what I mean? That to them is a dream. And we can't call that woman unambitious because we don't know what she's springing out of. Ambition is the fuel that springs you out of your current circumstance into the future that you want. But we are all living in very different current circumstances. And so we cannot dictate to someone what is ambitious. But I do think that the emigreens, the Grace Beverleys, the people who, the bosom of St. John's like, they, they position women to sometimes look at themselves and think, okay, am I being ambitious enough? Is there something in me that desires what these women have achieved? And have I allowed myself to be held back by becoming a wife, becoming a mother? Also. Sorry, I think there's a whole separate conversation we need to have about this idea that women are held back by marriage, particularly because. Girl, it won't. We can't contain it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Girl. In this conversation. Because I think what's so beautiful about what the examples you pulled up. All those women are married. Girl.

[Renee]

Well, some are full.

[Courtney]

Oh, some, yeah. Well, I mean formally married. But all those women were married at some point and have also attested that a lot of their happiness, but also career growth can be attributed to their partner as well. Right. And so I don't think it's necessarily about marriage. I think it's about the, the disproportional and unfair amount of work that is put on women to do when they have children as compared to their partners. But I think to myself that it can trigger some people to think, damn, maybe I did not put myself first, maybe I didn't. I allowed everyone to take over and take center stage in my own life.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And now I'm remembering that I wanted to be the one who was. Was CMO or CFO or CEO at a Fortune 500. I was the one who was on, you know, the trajectory to make partner. I was the one. And I laid all of that aside. And now we're in an era where we're being told, you don't have to, but I did. Damn. I can see how that would be extremely triggering.

[Renee]

You know what, who was I having this conversation with? But I was having this conversation about how we need to start monitoring how the springing of specific people or content triggers an insecurity in us.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Because sometimes our negative response has nothing to do with the person, but everything to do with us.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And I love what you were saying around how for a lot of women this has been almost a reckoning.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

This is, Hey, I may have laid my dreams down because I have a new responsibility, but this new responsibility doesn't have to be the entirety of my identity. Identity.

[Courtney]

That's right.

[Renee]

And taking a seasonal approach to my life, in this season, I am the 247 devoted mother.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

In this season, I want to be the boss babe that's wearing the six inch heels that's going to all the meetings and whatnot. In this season, I want to take a hybrid approach. Maybe it's, you know, 30 this, 70 that. Do you know what I mean? So I think what's very important about these women is that they represent options, as you said. And I love, love, love the phrasing or of, you know, women making choices, exercising their choice. Because that's the essence of feminism. It's about protecting women's capacity to choose. So exercising that agency and saying, I'm gonna choose this. We can't then turn around and get mad at women for choosing a wrong choice. Because that defeats the whole purpose of, you know, feminism, equality. It's about preserving people's right to choose. They may choose wrongly, but that's their business. You know what I mean? And I think, think examining ourselves and trying to understand, okay, what is it about this kind of woman that really gingers my spirit?

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Especially as women, but also as men. Like really understanding as a man, why is it that the Emma Greeds or the Grace Beverlys or the, you know, any kind of woman that seems to be a career oriented woman, why does that shake you so so much as a man?

[Courtney]

Because she's clearly a woman who's decented men.

[Renee]

Well, I'm not shocking for male validation.

[Courtney]

Exactly. Dissented men. Male validation. And I'm Sure. To these women, their husbands are important to them, obviously.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Like they're married. Do you get what I mean? I'm sure that they have a great relationship with their partners, but it's very clear that there is something which their passion burns for.

[Renee]

Yeah. Right.

[Courtney]

And that is their careers.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I think it's not even about that being the wrong choice. I think it's about that being the different choice that people cannot accept because to them, it defies social rules too much. Right. To them, it's too against the archetype. It's too against the grain. And so it feels like you're arrogant. And all these things that men. I mean, it's the. It's the normal gender equality debate. Right. Like all these things that men are not criticizing.

[Renee]

Exactly.

[Courtney]

Being ambitious.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Being career driven, being high achievers, all of these things. They're not criticized for that. It's just seen as something that they should do. And it's always all about testosterone and men are hunters and blah blah, blah.

[Renee]

What are you hunting in this?

[Courtney]

I'm so sorry. But the issue is that since women entered into the workforce, we brought over our transferable skills of being great managers, great organizers, great leaders, passionate people into the career sector. And by virtue of, you know, industrial changes, we are no longer just hunting for animals in the forest. We are no longer lumberjacking wood. Do you get what I mean? Do you know what I mean? We're in a new era of technology, baby. And so the ground is kind of a bit more even and leveled now where. And some people do argue that the current workforce or the current nature of work and I guess era of our industrialization or modern industrialization that we're in, favors women a bit more because it's no longer about physical assertion. Now it's about all these, like, soft skills and ability to adapt and blah, blah, blah. Sorry. We weren't the ones who brought ourselves to the workforce. That was World War II. And also for certain groups of women, working has always been a norm.

[Renee]

Thank you.

[Courtney]

Working has always been a norm. And so you can't chastise women for being ambitious at something that they must be applied to.

[Advertisement Voice]

Running a business means juggling a lot of moving parts. And when your communication tools can't keep up, things start to slip. Missed calls, slow replies, scattered conversations. They're not just frustrating, they're lost opportunities and revenue left on the table. That's where quo comes in. Spelled Q U O, Cuo is the number one rated business phone system on G2, trusted by over 90,000 businesses one shared business number for calls and texts so every conversation stays visible, organized and accountable. It works from an app or computer. You can keep your existing number, add teammates and sync your CRM, letting you scale without adding complexity. And with built in AI, Quo logs, calls, summarizes conversations and flags next steps even after hours Stop missing customers. Stop leaving revenue on the table. Try quo free and get 20% off your first six months at quo.comtech that's quo.com tech quo no missed calls, no missed customers. This is a vacation with Chase Sapphire Reserve. The butler who knows your name. This is the robe, the view, the steam from your morning coffee. This is the complimentary breakfast on the

[Courtney]

balcony, the beach with no one else on it.

[Advertisement Voice]

This is the edit a collection of handpicked luxury hotels you can access with Chase Sapphire Reserve Reserve and a 500 Edit credit that gets you closer to all of it. Chase Sapphire Reserve now even more rewarding. Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval.

[Courtney]

Why should I enter into the workforce and then choose to be mediocre? Oh, for some people, mediocrity will never suffice.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

And that's fine. Let them chase for gold. And I also think it's important for those women to recognize that, that in order to be lazy. And I think that's why I really like Emma Greed. I don't think she's perfect. Would love for you to come on the podcast mst but all of the

[Renee]

ladies that we've named. Yeah, yeah.

[Courtney]

If you'd love to be on the podcast, we'd love to chat.

[Renee]

Love to chat.

[Courtney]

This is the place for you.

[Renee]

This is the beginning of the conversation.

[Courtney]

But, but genuinely what I love about them is they acknowledge that this is not going to be airy fairy. Yeah, some things are going. You can't have it all. Some things are going to fall by the side. But the genuine thing is to assess within yourself. Do you want it all? People keep telling you, oh, you can have it all. And having it all looks like this. I don't want all of that.

[Renee]

I don't.

[Courtney]

I know what I want. Do you? I mean like what I love. For example, with this three hour mom thing, she was like, I don't want more hours with my kid. My kid. My, my issue is not that I want to balance it all by oh my God, how can I have this career and spend all day with my kid? I don't want to spend and I Know, I think it's something. There's something so powerful about a woman who knows what she wants and a woman who knows what she does not want.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I think it's annoying for people because when it comes to women, people are constantly projecting onto them what they should want. Right. They're telling you what you should want in a man, what you should want in a job, what you should want in children, what you should want. And some. To some degrees, I even think that this whole. The girl boss, the typical archetype of the girl boss, sometimes she also says. Says you should want this. Like, babe, no, we don't need to want that. I don't want. I don't need to all want to be super hyper ambitious. Do you get what I mean? So I think it's allowing women to want what they want.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And pursue what they want.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

With the full understanding of what it will cost and allowing them to do that.

[Renee]

Yeah. Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. I want to have a small conversation, actually, because I think I completely agree with everything that you said. I think these are magnificent, magnificent women who are demonstrating to a generation of women that, hey, you can want what you want, and that's that.

[Courtney]

Yeah. That's full.

[Renee]

Stop.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

However, I think another side of the equation is proximity to resources and the reality of privilege. Right. So we've had, you know, the different facets of folks talking about, okay, you know, she represents choice, or like, oh, this is a bit too much, or whatever. But I think an interesting facet of the conversation is, is the reality that some of these women have had disproportionate access to privilege. Right. So as much as you can have the narrative and the belief in hard work. Some of y' all is white.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Some of y' all is married to white people. Some of y' all have access to privileges that quite a lot of women, and I would say, probably, let's take, for example, women of color. A lot of us were quite. I don't want to say annoyed. Yeah. But I think quite a faction of us were kind of like, girl. Yeah. We, you know, side eye, heavy side eye. Because we respect what you've done.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

But respectfully, you've also. Quite respectfully, your man. Your man is rich. He's stacking.

[Courtney]

And some of who we're working with,

[Renee]

they work online, you know what I'm saying? They don't got what you got, you know, so we're working with different. You know what I'm saying? It may be. It may be different for a. Obviously different women, like, for example, your Patricia Brights or whatever. But some of these women, obviously, they work hard to get to where they are, you know, wherever they've gotten to. But then the access at particular levels they've now reached means that, okay, some of the conversations that you're having are now inaccessible to some of us as women because you are not. We are not your target audience anymore.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Do you get what I mean? So talk to me about that, about acknowledging that. Yes, a lot of these women are incredibly ambitious. A lot of these women have done some really great, great stuff, especially when it comes to their career and finances and all of that kind of stuff. But also, there's this tension of. But you've. You've had some help. You've had some access.

[Courtney]

Yes.

[Renee]

You've had some frameworks, but you've also had some cash. God, had cash injections.

[Courtney]

Great question. Great question. I think you said it. I think you said it. And it must be acknowledged. Yeah, it must be acknowledged. And I think that. Let's get to the politics of it all. But when I do think that when you look at the types of podcasts that people go on.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I think they must be aware of the nuances of the audience that's listening and the intersections that they are living and existing in. And I think what. What's challenging here, to be fair, it reminds me of this. A couple of years ago, we did an episode talking about Molly Mae.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

When Molly Mae said, you know, we all have the same 24 hours. And, you know, Kim Kardashian, as Kim Kardashian said, nobody wants to work anymore. And I think there's an importance to acknowledge there. I think it's something that I said in that episode that you cannot personal development your way out of systemic oppression.

[Renee]

Thank you.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? There is only so much your favorite motivational book is going to do for you when you recognize that you are still living within a system. You are still living within a political system, a class system, patriarchal system, whatever type of system that you are in. Social norms, values, laws and governing principles are going to confine you in certain ways. Right. And it will. You can be living next door to somebody and be confined in very different ways. Right. I think that's one thing to acknowledge. Another thing that often comes up is, well, I'm the one who, you know, was able to climb out of being from a working class background or being a black woman or, you know, I've experienced the suffering you've experienced.

[Renee]

My sister oh, sister with an A.

[Courtney]

And I've made it out. We can rise together, you know, pack

[Renee]

your Gucci bagger, get up out of here.

[Courtney]

Exceptionalism is killing my people. And I, I genuinely think it's acknowledging that sometimes you are the exception to the rule, but the rule still stands.

[Renee]

Good.

[Courtney]

And so in acknowledgement that the rule still still stands, though, there can be a deep desire within you for that to no longer be the rule.

[Renee]

Yeah, right.

[Courtney]

To raise rule breakers, to raise people who no longer are limited by the rule by completely abolishing the rule in itself. Right. So there are different people who take different approaches. One, they take this to the higher ups. You know, they try to work their way into certain spaces and certain places at certain levels in which they can break down these systemic barriers so that people who have been hindered by these things can run through and can excel. Sometimes though, you get people who just say, oh, you guys should just climb up the ladder. And it's like, okay, but what if my leg is broken? What if I've been crippled by the weight of this burden? Right. Or the weight state of life. And so, yes, we can be the types of people who help people get a leg up. But I think it's first of all important to remember that these systemic barriers actually exist.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

And they are real. And whilst you may be living outside of them now because of proximity, because of, you know, class mobilization, because of whatever, it doesn't mean they are not there anymore. And when you are speaking to people who are still there, who are still experiencing it, it, facing it, because the, the more you succeed, the more your success compounds.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And therefore you can fall into this place of being there, being an illusion that success is easy.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? Because you, you, right, you've done the hard, hard, hard work of pushing from 0 to 100k, but then 100 to 100k to 1 million was a bit easier. 1 million to a billion was a bit easier. And I, I genuinely think people, when they get to that stage where they're compounding at such a high rate.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

They can forget how hard they had to work for that first 100k.

[Renee]

Very good.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? And so then you look at people who are at that 100k level or less than that 100k level, they're working for their first jump. And then you tell them, we have the same 24 hours. Well, no, we don't. Because you're living in the compound pound. I'm living in the level one that's

[Renee]

so good and so right.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? And so there is an element of not passivity. It's your. You've worked hard. No one is denying that. But your hard work has gotten you to a place where you don't have to work as hard anymore. And I say have to. It's not about you don't want to, and it's not about the fact that you are not doing it. But now you are working by choice.

[Renee]

Choice.

[Courtney]

Some of us are working by force. Father in heaven, take us to that place.

[Renee]

Hear the cry of your servants.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I'm saying? But, but that's. And genuinely, I think that's where people need to remember that for some people, work is not a privilege.

[Renee]

Yes, yes.

[Courtney]

It is a necessity. And it is a necessity that. I mean, yes, we all have to work hard. Work is a principle. Even if you're a person living in abundance, you. You'll believe in work. Right? Work keeps the world going. It's a part of. As Christians as well, for us, is a part of our theology. It's a part of how we steward the world. Right? But there's work and then there's slavery. Some people are in bondage to work because of systems. Do you get what I mean? That's a different person. That's not someone who needs to buy a book. That's somebody who needs a scholarship. Two different conversations are happening here at the same time. So let's not try to paint everyone with the same brush. And let's remind ourselves that once we get to certain levels where working is a privilege and money is compounding, we can extend that to people who are still living within the social barriers. Yeah.

[Renee]

CDJ for President. Hey, when is the next general election?

[Courtney]

Yeah, I think people are doing that.

[Renee]

Right?

[Courtney]

Yeah, people are genuinely doing that. I think people just want to hear them say it out loud.

[Renee]

Yes, yes.

[Courtney]

Right. And I think, I don't know if it's because, you know, sometimes when you're on a PR run or sometimes people like the range or the conversation just doesn't allow for it. Right. And they're not. They're not sociologists. Do you know what I mean? But at the same time, I think there are ways that, like from a PR training but standpoint, but also just from a intelligent standpoint, you should be able to just make nod to these things. And I think people do, but those aren't the clips that go viral.

[Renee]

This is it. This is it. And I think what you had said earlier about Knowing your audience as well, knowing who you're coming to speak to, knowing the community that you're engaging with, knowing that, hey, the motivational quotes are not gonna run something a bit more substantive beyond, obviously, you sharing your experience. And I just love what you were saying around the compounding of effect. It's not that you haven't worked hard. I think you've forgotten what it feels like to work hard at that level.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And I think that's important to recognize, especially because the overwhelming majority, like, when we actually look at statistics of who is in poverty right now, the overwhelming majority of the globe is in poverty. And of that, the overwhelming majority are women.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So we need to be very careful that whilst we are, you know, talking about how we've been able to amass wealth or success, one, we're acknowledging systemic factors, but also, two, we're doing our best to give back and give back in a way that isn't just feeding into our own success, but actually, you know, investing in the women of tomorrow.

[Courtney]

That's it.

[Renee]

So, gosh, we could really talk about this. We could. Forever and ever. And it would be great to do a series about this. So, ladies, if you're listening again, maybe you should come on the two My Sister's podcast, because if you want to talk to women. Hello.

[Courtney]

Like, it's actually so true.

[Renee]

This is the number one show I'm just gonna put out there. It's not been verified by anything. It's the number one show to talk about these things. So come on podcast, let's have a conversation. My people will talk to your people. And by your people, talking to my

[Courtney]

people, my people is us.

[Renee]

It's just us. Hello. Hello. But I guess to end the conversation, Courtney, to the woman that is currently struggling with wanting to be palatable, the woman who has. Since we're doing the. To the women, you know, that kind of stuff. But to the sisters that are listening and they are struggling with people pleasing, they are thinking about, do I really want what I want? And they don't really have an idea of or a strong, you know, sense of I am pursuing what I want. What would you say to that, lady,

[Courtney]

I'll be very interested to hear what you have to say as well. After this, I would say to my sisters who are figuring out what they want in life, expose yourself to as many examples as possible. You don't know what you don't know. And so the more women who you get to know who are living and walking different walks of life and doing different things, the More, you'll be exposed to the possibilities that are available to you or that you can aspire towards. And that's a very powerful thing. Exposure is a very powerful thing. And so if you can expose yourself to women who are doing unimaginable things, who are thriving, even if it doesn't seem real to you, it can become your reality if you set your mind on overcoming every obstacle in your way. And I guess aligning yourself with people who can help you overcome it as you go. Because it won't just be you.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

It won't just be you who's trying to break out of the limitations that you are fighting in your life. And so there are women who will give you access and will give you resources, and I pray that you find them along the journey as well. But I think it starts with exposure, which is why I like, like, you know, these women, I like them, I like listening to them. I don't agree with everything that they say, but for someone who is ambitious but can sometimes struggle to believe that their dreams can even be achieved because they haven't seen it around them.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

It's nice to listen to a podcast and hear someone say, like, I was there.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I made it here, you know, and the road's not easy, but it can be walked. You know, even if the strategic moves aren't that easy to come by, they or they seem, I don't know, there's a particular way I'm thing I'm trying to communicate. But I think that people want to think that crazy ambition can be achieved and realized by doing palatable things.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

As you go, you're going to have to make decisions that people are not going to like.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

You're going to have to do things. I mean, look at like the criticism people have of the Emma Greens, the Grace Beverleys, the Patricia Brights, the women who are ambitious. Right. It's because they made certain decisions. And when they made that decision, there were people who were like, that was the wrong decision. And yet you still have to set your mind on the fact that this was the right decision for me. And so you need to get rid of that people pleasing itch that needs to be scratched by people's validation.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

It's not gonna work. It's not because you're going to end up with an average life because you've made choices which the majority of people agree with. The majority is the average.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

And so if you want something that the majority agree with, you're going to End up with the average life. And so if you're wildly ambitious, you have to be okay with the majority not being on your side. Well, and don't spin those words into doing something unethical. Don't be stupid. Sorry.

[Renee]

You know, you have to add the context at the end just in case somebody's gonna clip it. Courtney said, I'm gonna do some illegal stuff. You people need to stop watching that fan fiction.

[Courtney]

Exactly. Don't be. Girl. Don't be silly.

[Renee]

How about you, girl? You hit the nail on the head. I was thinking almost exactly the same thing. Especially that part around being palatable and being average girl. You have got to get the courage to be disliked. There's a book on it, and I would recommend that you read it. I think as women, we have been socialized into seeking validation as the core metric for our value. This woman is valuable because this woman is liked by many. Like, is not going to get you to the life that you want. That is worth it for you. Like, if you want to live an exceptional life by your own terms, you have got to be willing to. Sorry about this. Piss off a lot of people. It starts early. Piss off your parents.

[Courtney]

Renee.

[Renee]

It starts. No, no, it starts early. Walk with me. Sorry, Mom. I love you. Sorry. I love you, Dad. I love you guys. But it starts early. Right. Because for. For women. And when I converse with a lot of women there, you would be surprised or rather unsurprised by how many of us are still struggling with people. Please.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Renee]

Because our literal life is defined by how much. By how. How pleasing we are to other people. How much we can perform a version of ourselves that can be tasted and enjoyed by different people. The most palatable things and foods are bland.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

At its heart. Do you want to have a bland life? No. So you have to be willing to experiment with texture. You have to be willing to experiment with seasonings. The same goes off your life. You need to be willing to experiment and you need to take risks. Sometimes those risks will piss people off, and that's okay. And this is not to say that your whole life should just be about, oh, I'm gonna piss people off. Yeah. I hate you, Mom. Hate you, dad. Be a contrarian. Because I hate contrarians so bad for the sake of just. I disagree. Okay. Why?

[Courtney]

Yeah, it's not a personality trait.

[Renee]

But in the pursuit of self, you will piss people off because you are disrupting their versions of you to find your version of you. And if you are the kind of woman that doesn't know Okay. I don't know what I want out of life. Well, go on the journey to find it. You have time. That's okay. And try to do it before you have allowed the shells of what the world has told you to be to encase and become bitterness to other women. Because that's where it becomes dangerous when you are starting to project the insecurities of unrealized dreams onto other women. Now all of a sudden you see the woman that is pursuing her dream and you're bitter. Or you see the woman that is not doing things according to the way that you did them and you're bitter and you're now projecting. And that's why sometimes I see some women in the hate comments. I'm like, girl, you better than this. You know better. You know better. What are you doing in this comment section if you don't go and do a smart goals, something something a vision board get you.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Get on Pinterest.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Renee]

Because that's where you need to be. So I think, think. Don't be afraid to annoy people. People will be disappointed in you. That's okay. Every single woman that has achieved great things, there is a litany of people that once disliked her quite a bit.

[Courtney]

Yeah. They say well behaved women rarely make history.

[Renee]

You know, there's some people that don't like us. Right. As crazy as it is to believe that surely there must be something wrong with that person. But there's people that even look at this podcast and say, I don't like those two. Okay, well, you should back your belonging and you should go and find another community that works for you, Jonathan.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Renee]

You know, if we were out here trying to be liked by so and so and so and so, two my sisters would be very. In fact, I don't even know what two my sisters would be. It would be two.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Because it's for everybody.

[Courtney]

That's it.

[Renee]

But it's for the sisters. Do you understand? Like, you need to be able to. You're not going to be liked by everyone, but you'll be liked by the right people and that's all that matters. The people that are in your corner, the people that challenge you, the people that support you, take the risk, sis. If there is one thing that I really want the sisters to leave with, it would probably be take the risk that you've been avoiding. Take the risk this week. Do it. Stop it. Stop waiting for permission. Stop. You know, even the podcast you've been listening to of all these inspiration. Even this podcast, as you're listening to it as it comes to its conclusion. Please always go and take the risk

[Courtney]

you need to 100 I love that.

[Renee]

Well sisters, we have come to the end of the conversation but it's not the end of the conversation beyond the podcast and we would love to hear you guys thoughts on the palatable woman. What are some of the narratives that you are struggling with? What are some of the decisions that you're grappling with? Is there any advice sisters especially that have been, you know, running some ish for some time now. We want to hear from you too.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Do you have any tidbits or nug targets for the younger sisters that are coming up and are confused about what they should be doing and what they should be pursuing in this life? Sisters, are there any regrets that you want to share as well? Any advice you'd give to the younger sisters would be much appreciated. So light up the PhD below. Sorry I didn't

[Courtney]

oh wow.

[Renee]

It's unfortunate this is what Cody has to do with but sisters, please comment below. We'd love to hear your thoughts and of course if you are just watching us but you haven't subscribed. What are you doing? Stop that. Whether you're watching, listening, whatever, subscribe, come and join the community. That risky thing that you do could be to join the two my sisters in fact successful. Thank you investment shooter.

[Courtney]

Call me the next Elon Musk.

[Renee]

Anyway, please subscribe. Make sure to subscribe on all of our social media as well at to my sisterhood on pretty much everything. And of course you can come and follow us individually my lovely, lovely friend over here who has also got 100k on YouTube. Let's make it 200. I see the and come and follow me over at Renee Mafadon.

[Courtney]

We love a handle chase. Oh my God. Beautiful. But yeah sisters, we love you very very deeply. Make sure that you sign up to our newsletter. To receive weekly love letters from us, sign up on our website www.tomysisters.com. it's free, it's cheerful, we won't spam you, but you will get some serious perks such as a weekly love letter from us as well as exclusive drops and early access to event tickets and some really cool things we're working on behind the scenes. So I think you should sign up. Scissors.

[Renee]

You have a blessed week ahead and

[Courtney]

as always keep glowing and growing.

[Renee]

Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things so why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way. Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps.com print postage on demand 247 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trans truststamps.com. go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps. Com risk free for 60 days.