The Polygamist, Hiding Your Partner Online & Our Mid-Year Reality Check

Summary

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To My Sisters – Episode Summary

Podcast: To My Sisters

Hosts: Courtney Daniella Boateng & Renée Kapuku
Episode: The Polygamist, Hiding Your Partner Online & Our Mid-Year Reality Check
Date: July 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a classic "girl chat" where Courtney and Renée tackle major cultural, relationship, and personal topics: the viral South African Netflix series "The Polygamist," the trend of hiding partners' faces online, and a mid-year check-in on personal growth and mental health. The conversation is candid, insightful, and filled with practical advice, cultural commentary, and encouragement for women navigating adulthood, relationships, and personal development.

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Key Segments & Timestamps

1. Sister’s Dilemma: Faith vs. Practicality in Marriage Planning (03:06–15:19)
2. Deep Dive: Netflix’s "The Polygamist"—Patriarchy, Marriage, and Legal Rights (15:19–53:35)
3. Social Media & Relationships: Hiding Your Partner’s Face Online (70:30–78:15)
4. Mid-Year Reality Check: Growth, Anxiety, and the Pace of Grace (78:16–102:02)

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1. Sister’s Dilemma: Faith, Finances & Entering Marriage

[03:06–15:19]

Context

A listener writes in, asking for advice about marrying her long-term boyfriend while both are on temporary jobs, unsure if taking the plunge is faith or financial irresponsibility.

Key Insights

• Financial Reality vs. Wedding Ideals:
  • Renée: "It's not just about the day itself, but also the life that you want to lead later down the line. So... think about them as two different things." [05:17]
  • "You can get married... legally getting married is relatively inexpensive... maybe a small ceremony, then a bigger one later, but the point is you guys are married." [06:50]
• Practical Boundaries & Faith:
  • Courtney introduces the "foundation of faith, but pillars of practicality" analogy.
    • "The things in our lives are built on the foundation of faith, but they are built on pillars of practicality... Practicality looks like finances, communication, community..." [11:40]
  • "If you are both practically making enough money when combined to be able to stand on your own two feet, now you can get married... If you do, lift off, let's be good, let's go." [13:47]
• Set Timelines & Avoid Indefinite Waiting:
  • Renée encourages setting a timeline so waiting for 'perfect' conditions doesn’t drag on.
• Cultural Pressure & Minimalism:
  • Both warn against pressure to overspend based on cultural expectations.

Notable Quotes

• "Do not put what could be a beautiful thing on pause because you think there are these extreme conditions to make it happen." – Renée [09:49]
• "If it functions, if it keeps you safe, if it makes you happy, it's just about contentment." – Courtney [12:30]

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2. Deep Dive: Netflix’s "The Polygamist"—Cultural Commentary & Hard Lessons

[15:19–53:35]

Context

The sisters offer an in-depth (and spoiler-heavy!) discussion of the Netflix series "The Polygamist," using it as a springboard to explore patriarchy, women’s rights, financial security, and generational trauma in relationships.

Synopsis of the Series (for listeners who haven’t watched)

Courtney delivers a dramatic run-down of the plot, which centers on Jonas, a businessman who deceives and marries multiple women, leading to generational and familial chaos. The discussion unpacks the psychological and social fallout for the women and children.

Key Discussion Points

a) Patriarchy & Power

• Male Power and Female Disempowerment:
  • "The Polygamist is the perfect case study for what it's like for men to get away with— or the type of men that are born in a culture that coaches women to just normalize disrespect and dysfunction in their relationships." – Courtney [31:09]
• Consequences and Lack Thereof:
  • "If there's one thing that I've always loved about what you share, Courtney, it's the fact that it's important that people experience consequences through and through... we're not doling out consequences to people that have broken covenant, and it's usually the guy." – Renée [38:30]

b) Legal Rights: Beyond Tradition

• Legal Marriage vs. Traditional Marriage:
  • "There are a lot of women who are being twanged right now by men telling them, it's fine, let's do traditional marriage, because they know that... you're not entitled to as much as you could be." – Courtney [44:20]
  • Advice: Go for legal registry marriage— "Any man who wants to prove to you that he actually loves you will give you the security of an actual wedding certificate." [44:39]
• Access vs. Ownership:
  • Renée sharply distinguishes between "access" (temporary, dependent on the man) and "ownership" (co-signing, assets, legal standing).
    • "But you need ownership. Case in point, when [Matipa] went to go and withdraw money... that soon declined because she didn't own the account." [46:06]

c) The Value of Women’s Labor

• Stay-at-Home Mothers & Financial Security:
  • "If you are a stay at home mother... You are building something with [your partner]... without you the family is not running... You're actually doing free labor. That would have to be paid for." – Renée [47:43]
• Talk About Wills, Pensions, and Safety Nets:
  • The sisters stress long-term thinking for women: pensions, ownership, and financial independence.
  • "The conversations really need to be around what's my pension saying? How are we going to take care and look after each other when we are old?" – Renée [54:51]

d) Breaking Generational Patterns

• Pattern-Recognition and Healing:
  • "When you are handed familial dysfunction, you have two options: repeat the cycle, or do the healing necessary to put a stop to it." – Courtney [68:25]
• Recognizing the Exit:
  • "There's always an opportunity for you to stop and turn back. Even for Janasi... you can stabilize. You can actually turn back... Too many... go past the point of return. They don't even recognize there's actually an exit on the highway." – Renée [61:00]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "He wasn’t even a good man. Let's start with that. He wasn’t a good man and I think we could see it across the board in all of his relationships." – Renee [36:55]
• "As much as you may be traditionally or spiritually married, you're not entitled to as much as you could be. ... You'll be fighting for a long time. And it's hard to fight when you're also grieving." – Courtney [44:20]
• "[Women] have to advocate [for] yourself in that and there are going to be men and people who make you feel like you’re doing too much. ... No, we're digging for this gold together." – Courtney [50:40]
• "Children are actually a multiplier of wealth." – Courtney [52:16]

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3. Social Media & Relationships: The ‘Hiding Your Partner’ Trend

[70:30–78:15]

Highlights

• Cultural Fear & Privacy:
  • Renée: "If in every single post of you and this partner, I’m seeing you edit this man’s whole head out… It’s giving just neck. It’s kind of like, girl, what are you afraid of?" [73:38]
• Double Standards:
  • The sisters critique how women bear the burden of suspicion and shaming; if a man is unfaithful, the embarrassment should not fall on the woman.
• Healthy Privacy vs. Secrecy:
  • Artful, subtle posts are fine, but aggressive editing is "just very strange."
  • Courtney: "No one compelled you for this picture. You posted it. You could have just showed us a picture of your ring." [74:47]
• Transparency in Partnerships:
  • Both express concern if only one partner is "loud" about the relationship online.

Notable Moment

• "If you don't want to post his face, don't post anything with his head and face in it. It's that simple." – Courtney [78:15]

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4. Mid-Year Reality Check: Growth, Mental Health, and the Pace of Grace

[78:16–102:02]

Check-in Reflections

• Contentment & Community:
  • Renée: "One thing I’ve loved about this first half is just the opportunity to be very present with people... being part of in-person community... It’s been effort, but it’s been so rewarding." [80:49]
• Gentleness & Self-Kindness:
  • "For me... the last six months has really looked like me being gentle to myself... I have cultivated a gentleness in my internal self-talk, which has been important for me." – Renée [81:38]
• Embracing Anxiety & Uncertainty:
  • Courtney: "I've found myself developing a certain degree of anxiety again... I think there's a level of so many moving parts... But no, God is your anchor... that strengthening in my spiritual life... has helped me find a bit more stability." [86:49]
  • "It's okay to feel fear, it's just not okay to be ruled by it." [89:41]
• Accepting the Pace:
  • The "pace of grace" is favored over hustle-culture speed: "When culture says speed up, God is saying slow down… that's when grace works." – Courtney [95:31]
• Appreciating Quiet & Peace:
  • Renée: "There's so much peace in slowing down... Peace is something that's so difficult in today's society." [97:56]
• Being Present & Willing to Change:
  • "You have to wake up and you have to do the work to change." – Courtney [70:16]

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Standout Quotes (with timestamps)

• On legal marriage:

  • "Any man who wants to prove to you that he actually loves you will give you the security of an actual wedding certificate." – Courtney [44:39]

• On women’s financial security:

  • "Ownership is far more important than the access. You need to get your name on things. You need to get legal rights to things." – Renée [49:00]

• On generational cycles:

  • "When you are handed familial dysfunction, you have two options: one, you repeat the cycle; two, you do the healing necessary to put a stop to it." – Courtney [68:25]

• On digital privacy:

  • "If you don't want to post his face, don't post anything with his head and face in it. It's that simple." – Courtney [78:15]

• On the risk of hustle culture:

  • "Sometimes for you to have your miraculous moments, you have to put your foot on the brake, not the gas... build at the pace of grace." – Renée & Courtney [95:31]

• On peace:

  • "Yes, it's quiet, but it's peaceful — and peace is something that's so difficult in today's society." – Renée [97:56]

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Conclusion

This episode of To My Sisters blends sharp cultural critique with nourishing advice. From the hard realities depicted in "The Polygamist" to practical lessons on legal protection and financial security, Courtney and Renée unpack the pitfalls and powers at play for women in relationships. The podcast closes with vulnerable personal updates—a reminder to build with intention, honor your progress, and "glow and grow" at the pace of grace.

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For listeners:
If you have thoughts on "The Polygamist," the 'hiding your partner' online trend, or want to share your mid-year reality check, the sisters invite you to join the conversation via their website or social media.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Renee]

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[Courtney]

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[Renee]

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[Courtney]

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[Renee]

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[Courtney]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com we are having a good old girl chat. From talking about the polygamist on Netflix to why are people hiding their partner's faces online? And also having a mid year check in. Since we are are in the second half of 2026, we are not doling

[Renee]

out consequences to people that have broken covenant. And it's usually the guy.

[Courtney]

Yeah, the polygamist. Shout out to the South Africans because if anyone's gonna tell a story, it's South Africa. Jonas was not a good husband to any of these women.

[Renee]

He wasn't even a good man. Let's start with that. He wasn't a good man and I think we could see it across the board in all of his relationships.

[Courtney]

Any man who wants to prove to you that he actually loves you will give you the security. An actual wedding certificate.

[Renee]

You've gone to the extreme. The extreme of editing this man's whole upper body or we're seeing his legs.

[Courtney]

If you don't want to post his face, don't post anything with his head and face in it.

[Renee]

It's that simple. Anybody that is listening right now and you've been given a second chance, take it.

[Courtney]

I suddenly find myself like I'll be out and for some reason I'm anxious and I don't know why.

[Renee]

Hello and welcome to the To My Sisters podcast. I'm Renee.

[Courtney]

And I'm Courtney and we are your online big sisters and hosts of the To My Sisters podcast.

[Renee]

Now we are all about promoting the wellness, growth and development of a community of sisters across the world.

[Courtney]

And in today's conversation, we are having a good old girl chat. From talking about the polygamist on Netflix to why are people hiding their partner's faces online? And also having a mid year check in. Since we are in the second half of 2026 go. It is set to be a great conversation.

[Renee]

I can't wait.

[Courtney]

A little bit of Jeez. Yes, yes, yes. But before we get into the conversation, any housekeeping announcements?

[Renee]

I don't think so. You know, I feel like our house has been fairly well thoroughly swept.

[Courtney]

Fantastic. Loving the Kai, by the way.

[Renee]

Thank you.

[Courtney]

Kai Collective. Check it out.

[Renee]

I'm trying to intentionally invest in, like,

[Courtney]

black owned, you know what I mean?

[Renee]

And I needed the excuse to get the top.

[Courtney]

I love it.

[Renee]

Mrs. Not even Ms. Mrs. Visayo. If you're listening to this and you're

[Courtney]

a fan of the podcast, holla at your sisters, girl. But we love to see it. And before we get into the meat and bones, let's actually answer a sister's ding, ding, ding dilemma. Oh, okay. Hi, sisters.

[Renee]

Hi.

[Courtney]

Not sure if this will make it, as I'm uncertain. It is a dilemma.

[Renee]

You made it.

[Courtney]

And here it is.

[Renee]

You made it.

[Courtney]

I believe it's a call for some big sis advice. That's why this segment exists. You're in the right place. My boyfriend and I have been together a few years. We met at a young age. We're now 25 and 27 and really want to get married. Currently, our biggest hurdle is financial. We both aren't working permanent. We both aren't working permanent jobs, just internships at the moment. We've been making active steps and saving as much as we can, but there's a fear attached to making the move because of our current career positions. We're both believers. I think it's meant to say we're both believers and want to pursue this by faith, but there's a bit of a struggle identifying if doing it is a pursuit by faith or an irresponsible step behind the disguise of faith? If this is an irresponsible step, how do we get ourselves to wait for things to come together whilst not feeling saddened by the continued delay in us getting married.

[Renee]

Oh, sis.

[Courtney]

Wow.

[Renee]

What a dilemma.

[Courtney]

Yeah, that's. That's a really good dilemma.

[Renee]

Very good dilemma. I think first and foremost, it's good that you're having these conversations and you're thinking about this. And also, it's so beautiful that you guys have been together for this long.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Congratulations.

[Courtney]

Love it.

[Renee]

For you guys, yay.

[Courtney]

Beautiful.

[Renee]

And it's so, so wonderful to know.

[Courtney]

Do you know what?

[Renee]

Because of the context of this episode,

[Courtney]

it was just the tone was a bit confusing.

[Renee]

The context, genuinely, because of the context of this episode, I love hearing about for you, thriving.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Yeah. It's refreshing.

[Renee]

Relationships, commitment, nuclear. All things commitment. Commitment is beautiful. And the fact that both of you share this desire towards marriage and you're working actively towards it, I think is such a beautiful thing. So kudos to both of you. I think it's. It's a sticky one in that when we have our visions of what marriage is supposed to be, or at least the ceremony and the kind of, you know, what life looks like after. Not gonna lie, it does take finances. And finances is a big thing to be thinking of, to be considering as you make this life decision. However, I would also challenge you folks to think about, okay, if you want to be, you know, together forever, you want to take this next step, what is the minimum amount that you need to make this happen? So the actual wedding itself, and then also thinking about life afterwards. So the question isn't necessarily just about, you know, the wedding ceremony and the marriage itself, but actually, well, the marriage ceremony itself, but the marriage afterwards are some of your financial goals. Is it that you want to buy a house? Is it that you want to have a minimum amount of, you know, expenditure for the lifestyle that you see yourselves living? That is a separate conversation to the wedding itself. So I think even in the dilemma and even within the context of you guys relationship, I would encourage you to really think about them as two different things. It's not just about the day itself, but also the life that you want to lead later down the line. Yeah, I think the fact that you've been together for quite a while and you share this, you know, the shared vision of what your life is to be, which is you want to get married, I think is a very good sign. And I think it's not necessarily irresponsible unless you believe that, you know, the wedding and marriage has to look like y' all really blowing the money, you know what I'm saying? So you can get married on like, I don't know what country you guys are from, but even in terms of just legally getting married is relatively inexpensive. And it may look like actually thinking about some alternative options to ensure that your vision comes to life whilst you guys are building together. So think about maybe having a civil ceremony or having a smaller ceremony and then thinking about what does life look like with you two combined? And I think as much as there may be some financial pressures that you're both experiencing, actually marriage can sometimes act as a bolster to those efforts because you guys actually combining your finances, you're combining the life choices that you're making, you're combining the experiences that you're having. And two is often better than one. And from the receipts that you guys have of being together for this Long. You're both believers, you're both going out on faith. I think it's actually just a matter of time before we actually see some kind of breakthrough for you. And also, this is normal. It's actually normal to be in a phase of life whereby you don't have a permanent job. Anything can happen at any point in your life. I think sometimes we can wait for the perfect time or the right time to take a life step or take a significant step. And the problem with that is we're not going to always have arrived before it's time for you to take the next step, if that makes sense. So don't think that. Obviously, again, it's good to have these considerations, but this shouldn't be contingent on you just, you know, taking the. The checklist of making sure that you have X amount in the bank before it's appropriate for you guys to get married. There are whole other things that you need to think about making the consideration to get married. And God, you know, heaven forbid, but it happens. People get married and then they lose their jobs. You know, people get married and then, like, horrible things happen to them. And that doesn't make their covenant void because they are no longer making that minimum amount that they envisaged. In fact, it's now a mandate for you guys to use this marriage and get to work. So whilst it is a, you know, it's a responsible thing to make sure that you have a minimum amount to make the wedding ceremony work and make the marriage work, let that be a deterrent, especially because there are adjustments that can be made and because life throws us curveballs all the time. And you will find yourself waiting indefinitely for the right moment and the right conditions to take a step that you've been waiting on and you've been working towards for a very, very long time. So I don't necessarily think it's an irresponsible decision. Do you have to cut your cloth according to your size? Yes, and that's fine. Don't be bowled over by the ostentatious displays of what a wedding is supposed to look like. Like, I know it might be your DRE, but weddings don't have to be costing the 30s, the 40s, the 50Ks or whatever. You can actually pare it down and do maybe a small ceremony, and then later down the line, do a big ceremony. But the point is, you guys are married. And then even in terms of your lifestyle afterwards, again, actually, both of you being in a similar position, this is the perfect opportunity for you guys to work Together. It's a beautiful thing to be able to, again, combine and come together as a covenant, because it means that you're tackling this problem together. And so I would actually encourage you folks to really think about, okay, if marriage is definitely, definitely the next step for us, what are the ways that we can still achieve this whilst we're being cognizant of the life stage that we are at? And don't put on hold what could be a beautiful thing, because you don't have what you may think is the necessity for this to be a fruitful marriage. Marriage is built on so many other things. And it sounds like you guys have been working towards this for a very, very long time. So, yeah, I would say, sis, y' all might need to go down the registry office and do a little, you know, a one, two, if that's something that you desire, or at least having some kind of compromise or at least putting a timeline or a definitive deadline on it, because these things can carry on. And given the way that the economy is, you just never really know, you can never really have that assurance that things will be perfect before you take that next step. So if it is that you're not willing to compromise to that degree, make sure you have a definitive timeline as to, okay, we are going to get married by this time and this is what, you know, we're working towards. But I don't think that it has to be a cut and dry. We can't get married until we're making like 100k. Girl, do not put what could be a beautiful thing on pause because you think that they are these extreme conditions to make it happen. So, yeah, that's what I would say. Course would love to hear what you have.

[Courtney]

That's so good. I 100% agree with you. I think I'll speak to the element of wanting to do this in faith, because I think as people of faith, when we want to do something that seems very out there, somewhat impossible, we need actual faith to be able to believe it to happen. I think we must remember that the things in our lives are built on the foundation of faith, but they are built on the practicality. Like the. How do I say it? Yeah. The things in our lives are built on the foundation of faith, but they are built on pillars of practicality.

[Renee]

Right, Right.

[Courtney]

There's this foundation, but on top of this very solid foundation, very true foundation, we must build these pillars of practicality. And when it comes to, like our good sis is saying, I completely agree with you. I think that you should get married. But your pillars of practicality look like finances, they look like communication, they look like community. They look like all these things which need to be cultivated to hold this thing up that we've built on faith and finance is a huge one. But that whole infrastructure kind of model analogy, it actually comes down to what the. What size of house are you trying to build?

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

What type of structure are you trying to build? You can build a solid house that is not a mansion yet, you know, but it still stands.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

It still covers. It's still safe. And so if you can build a marriage on what you have now, it's enough.

[Renee]

It is.

[Courtney]

It's enough. If it functions, if it keeps you safe, if it makes you happy, it's just about contentment. And practically that looks like small wedding. You guys realizing that you are going to be building together. Right. And I think sometimes that can make women a bit scared, you know, And I. I completely understand why. We've heard about women building with men, you know, starting off with the we started with nothing kind of backstory and it go wrong. But I also think that for every story where it's gone wrong, there are probably two that have gone right.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

In that. And I personally know some. They have started with pretty much nothing. And they've helped one another. And through trust and open communication and genuine loyalty to one another from both parties, they have been able to build together. And if you are both happy to make that agreement and that partnership, I think it can work. If you are. Again, this is one of those pillars of practicality. If you are both practically making enough money when combined to be able to stand on your own two feet, now you can get married. If you can be independent with one another, even if it means at the end of the month we actually have nothing left, it's fine. Once you get to the end of the month, you'll figure it out.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

If you're saying, like we both don't make enough to actually make any ends meet for just one of us, it's going to be hard to do it for two of you. So make sure that you've done your calculations. Okay, where would we live? How much would it cost? What would our bills be? What jobs can we do now? Okay, we're doing our internship. When do both our internships finish? When are we going to be expecting to make more? Plan your timeline like that. But if it's finances, if you have enough finances to just start life, I would say start life together. You've been together for Long enough. I don't really know what else you guys are waiting for at that point, but, yeah, that's what I would say. I'd say get to the drawing board, pull up an Excel spreadsheet, think about how much life would actually cost. Do you actually make that much money? And I'm talking about, like, at the minimum viable version of it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Do you actually make that much money? If you do lift off, let's be good. Let's go. If you don't, then you guys know if we're not in the financial position, because if we get married and then every month we're having to call our parents to bail us out of something or to give us £100 or to. That's not how you do. That's not how you do life. So that's what I'd say.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

All the best of it, girl. I mean, if it's wedding bells. I was gonna say invite us, but that's another head.

[Renee]

I was thinking that.

[Courtney]

Don't worry. I was literally thinking that. Courtney, just send us pictures. That's enough. You see, these are all the pressures now. We're inviting ourselves to your wedding. I mean, this is how things.

[Renee]

In fact, when you guys get married, email us. We'll take you out.

[Courtney]

Oh, that's it. We'll even send you a gift card. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Renee]

We'll send you something.

[Courtney]

Send you something. We'll send you something. But honestly, sis, wishing you all the best or praying for all the best for you. Yeah. And if you ever want to send us a dilemma, you can email it to dilemmasomysisters.com or you can go to our website to my sisters.com and submit your dilemma there. We would love to hear from you and help you out. Out. But without further ado, let's actually talk about the polygamist. Because if you haven't already watched the viral smash hit series the Polygamist on Netflix, then I want to warn you that there will be a lot of spoilers in this episode. Disclaimer. Disclaimer. And so if you don't want anything to be spoiled for you, click to the next timestamp, please. If you are fine with it, listen along and be shocked with us all. So the polygamist shout out to the South Africans, because if anyone's gonna tell a story.

[Renee]

Sisters.

[Courtney]

It's South Africa.

[Renee]

Sisters. I just. You know what? The South African babes. I thought that us Nigerians would take the cake for the most diabolical storylines, but the South Africans have far surpassed us.

[Courtney]

I'VE seen this happen in Nigeria. That's true.

[Renee]

But I don't know. The production quality.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the. The series was sick.

[Renee]

The production quality. Because I feel like with the Nollywood. To be fair, Nollywood has really been

[Courtney]

up and coming with the production quality,

[Renee]

but this really shocked us all.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Renee]

In how diabolical such a narrative is and how even more so diabolical is the fact that a lot of people came out and said, yeah, this is, like, normal. This is happening. You know, uncle so and so is doing.

[Courtney]

Yeah, polygamy. I guess we can talk about this from different perspectives. There's the series itself.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And then there's the kind of cultural commentary on it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I think for. From the series itself. Phenomenally done. Great. Phenomenally done. But then again, like Netflix, South Africa, they're always killing it.

[Renee]

They're on one.

[Courtney]

They're always killing it. I think obviously, the Polygamist is based on a book, and the book itself was, like, a smash hit. And so seeing it, you know, turned into a screenplay was like, wow, this is. This story was deep. And each of these 22 episodes was as gripping as the one before it. Like, the story was unfolding in such a crazy, crazy way. Have you read the book?

[Renee]

Not yet. No.

[Courtney]

I haven't read the book either. So I don't think we can really speak to how it compares to the book. But what we can talk about is the story. And yes, the acting was phenomenal. Like, everything was. No notes, no notes. Fantastic. But genuinely, the story was diabolical. Jonas Gamora is a walking principality.

[Renee]

Jonasi.

[Courtney]

Oh, my gosh, what a crazy situation. So to give you some backstory, if you don't act, because I know a lot people don't actually want to watch it for themselves. And I completely understand it because I feel like right now, if you have a hopeless disposition towards life and men and marriage and the dating market, this is not something to add fuel to your fire. So to give you a brief synopsis, the polygamist follows. I would say the main character is actually Joyce Gamora, but we focus a lot on her husband, Jonas. Jonas Janas Gamora is a businessman, the husband of Joyce Gamora. And we find out that around 20 years into their marriage, he starts having an affair with a lady called Matipa.

[Renee]

Yep.

[Courtney]

Mateepa was actually his brother's. Jonas's brother's girlfriend. And then he did a Trey Songz, Mr. Steal youl Girl, and Matipa became Jonas's baby. Joyce finds out, and Is like, okay, no, that's not gonna happen. So wrap it up. In an attempt to preserve not just her marriage, but the image of her marriage, she's trying to get Matipa away at all costs. But a couple episodes in, we find out Matipa is in fact, pregnant with twins. Twins with twins. So Joyce gets the bright idea that Matipa, me and you will have to become sister wives. Okay? And so Matipa becomes Jonas's wife number two. And I do air quote, if you don't see. Because it turns out that the man who Matipa was originally dating, Jonas Gamora's brother, is allegedly, quote, unquote, married to a woman called Essie. We meet Essie in the show. She has two children. A little bit wayward, the family, but lovely nonetheless. Turns out that actually Essie is not married to Jonas brother. She's married to Jonas Chai. Turns out Esi was actually Janas's first babe. Then he left her. Well, didn't even leave her. Left her in the ghetto. They grew up together in the same area, literally, I believe in Soweto. Yeah, they grew up in Soweto, which we've actually been to. And Jonas leaves her, and literally, after she helps him get out of the trenches when they're much younger, gives him the money that he needs to go to university, he leaves and vows to her, I'm gonna come back for you because you've helped me in my time of need. One day for Essie to find out at work that actually this man has gone to the big city and married a phenomenal lady from a rich family called Joyce. Imagine opening the newspaper to see your boyfriend is in fact married.

[Renee]

Imagine.

[Courtney]

Thank you very much. We think we have problems. So she kind of moves on with her life, has a baby, then Jonas comes back and brings her a car, and it's like, you know what? I'm gonna marry you too. And so he marries her. And so Essie is actually Jonas, Mrs. Jonas too, right?

[Renee]

What nonsense.

[Courtney]

And Essie unfortunately thought that this is going to be, you know, a polygamy situation. I'm gonna be his second wife. No. Wahallah. Turns out this guy never told his first wife that he has a second wife. Joyce continues life for 20 years believing that Essie is in fact her sister in law when she's actually her sister wife.

[Renee]

Imagine.

[Courtney]

Yes. So it's unfortunate because Essie and Janas actually have a child together who the family, Joyce's family and children believe is their cousins, but actually it's their half sister, but the girl knows that and she has to pretend to be their cousin the whole time. Not only do things get wicked out and badder, things actually start to get diabolical because Jonas has in fact got three wives at this point and decides that it's not enough. It's not enough. So he starts to date his daughters best friend Lindani and enter into the chat the fourth woman in the fire. So she becomes his side piece. I don't know what that is, I don't know. But that man has been grooming that girl since she was about 8 years old and she is, you know, trying to get into proximity to her breakthrough.

[Renee]

You know, she's a girl who needs

[Courtney]

money and she meets a man who has money and she's like, all right, let's, let's rock with it then.

[Renee]

Mind you, she had a boyfriend at this time.

[Courtney]

She had a boyfriend, she cheated on him with her best friend's dad. Whilst her best friend's brother, the son of said dad, actually really likes her and she actually knows that. So as you can tell, we've just told you a very, very messy situation. And things do in fact get messy because Janas literally pulls on Joyce's last tether and after attempting to kill him and failing, she's like, you know, I've had enough, I've had enough. I tried to repair our marriage. They even renewed their vows in the midst of all of this. But at that point she didn't know the full extent of his wickedness. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we did. And she finds out everything is laid out on the table. She realizes that her husband is dating an underage girl. He's in fact married to her sister in law and he has a second wife. And the second wife is now being domestically abused by. It's so many different things. And she's like, you know, I've had enough. When she did try to kill him the first time, she actually went to jail. When she went to jail, she met a lady who was also in jail for cutting off her boyfriend's penis.

[Renee]

Hi.

[Courtney]

And they form an alliance and she literally hires this lady called Lungi to go and give her husband, Jonas Gamora hiv, which just to remind all is a crime.

[Renee]

So.

[Courtney]

But no one knows, no one finds out that part. And Janas Gamora unfortunately contracts HIV from having sex with the random woman who appeared at his front door one day.

[Renee]

That's 110% his own.

[Courtney]

And dies.

[Renee]

That's 110%.

[Courtney]

Leaving behind a grand total of five children to three different women, busy body. And that is the story of the polygamist busy body. Yeah. So what were your thoughts from the whole series, Renee?

[Renee]

Take your time. Take your time. That was a fantastic synopsis.

[Courtney]

Thank you so much.

[Renee]

For 22 episodes or 23 episodes. Fantastic.

[Courtney]

Just giving you some top lines.

[Renee]

Yeah, yeah. That was genuinely horrifying to watch. It was horrifying. The drama was. It was great, if you like that messiness. It was full of messiness. But I think it was, as you mentioned, diabolical. So many elements to unpack. Obviously, we've got the arch villain. Mr. Drummer. No, the arch Vill. Because I've started seeing comparisons of him next to, like, Marvel villains.

[Courtney]

And I was like, he's actually.

[Renee]

You might have surpassed them. Final boss. Final boss. But it was also very, very sad to see the decline of the women as well.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Renee]

I feel like it was only Joyce that really got her lick back for this man. Because we just saw the decline of all of them, apart from Linda. She was out here living her best life.

[Courtney]

No, but she lost a lot in the process. She did. SIS had a whole miscarriage. And in the most gruesome way.

[Renee]

Y. Yeah.

[Courtney]

That man didn't care about you and

[Renee]

kind of derailed your life 110%. So. And that man was a sex addict. He was literally a. It was. Yeah, it. It was. It was drama, drama, drama. But I think what was also quite, quite starkly shocking is the fact that people have stories that are akin to this one. Yeah. That's really, really alarming. And I think, think where Jonas got his come up eventually in episode 20, something, something. There are people that are walking around that they ain't got no look back, they ain't got no accountability. And it just made me feel so sad for the women who have chosen. I think we were seeing certain archetypes of women in a lot of the wives.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So this idea that you can change a man.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Believing that there's something about you that can change this man. We saw time and time again. Literally. There were some still shots of Janas. I was like, you are a wicked man and you've chosen to be a wicked man. It's not even that you've necessarily had the most traumatic upbringing. Yes, you grew up in the ghetto, whatever. You worked your way to the top, but your decision to treat women like this, I don't really feel like there was anything in his past or in his story. There is nothing that would suggest that.

[Courtney]

That there is nothing.

[Renee]

This is why you. Thank you. There's nothing. And. And I think that was good. Let him be a villain. Do you know what I mean? Like, there wasn't any redemptive. Right. There was absolutely not a redemptive something in his body. Even the way I can even extend it to the way that he treated his kids.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Which was also horrifying. I can't remember the name of his, like, daughter. Joyce. Yeah. There's one scene where obviously she's also finding out in real time about. About the dirty things that her father is doing. She writes this man a letter saying, you know, dad, this is how I feel, and this is how this has impacted me. So she comes to her father's study whilst he is working, and he's obviously like, oh, you know, how can I help you? Are you okay? She starts to read the letter, and you can see in real time his face just change. And the shutdown. And then he eventually cuts her off and he says, leave the letter there. Yeah, I will read it another day time. And he turns his face away.

[Courtney]

I think he was even watching tv. That man didn't give a crap that his oldest daughter is saying to him, hey, hey, hey. I hate your girl. Daddy, you've got to close those legs. You are ruining my life. She's crying as she's saying this. No, literally, like, you're ruining my entire life. I am basically traumatized by what you're doing. I actually really love you.

[Renee]

You need to close it up.

[Courtney]

And you are ruining everything for all of us. This man is saying, put it.

[Renee]

Put it down. Put it down.

[Courtney]

Can you book this in another time?

[Renee]

Put it down. And then Essie's daughter said she just wanted to hang out with her. Her dad. Every single time she tried to book some time, and he was not there. He was busy. And then Menzie. Sorry for that young boy, because his dad hated him.

[Courtney]

He doesn't like any of his kids. He don't know he doesn't like any of these kids.

[Renee]

Is I like.

[Courtney]

So I even said he left her out for. He left behind five children. It's actually six.

[Renee]

Yeah. Yeah. There were six children. Yeah, children.

[Courtney]

Because in Premier, Menzies have a younger brother.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And then the twins. And then. And those are only the ones that were in. Was it Johannesburg? Those are the only ones in Johannesburg. That man, you don't even know.

[Renee]

It's just so in wild.

[Courtney]

You don't even know.

[Renee]

And I just think it just. It spoke to his irresponsibleness as a human, not even as a man, but as a Human being and how having power, having access to whatever, creates the impression or allows people to feel as though they're untouchable. He was enabled by the fact that he had money. He was enabled by the fact that a lot of these women were actually comfortable enough to stay.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Like his first sight. When Joyce, you know, found out about him, his first affair, I was absolutely horrified at the fact that this side chick was so, so entitled.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So entitled. You think that by having. And I love the scenes with her mum as well, where her mum was trying to tell her, look, babe, this ain't the track for you.

[Courtney]

This isn't what you think it is.

[Renee]

This ain't. You know what I'm saying? And that horrifying scene where the first time he comes to visit his twins, he was also asking for a sexual favor from this lady.

[Courtney]

She's just given birth and she literally says, I literally just had a C section. And he's just like, well, your mouth still works.

[Renee]

Hi.

[Courtney]

Hi. I just told you I had a major surgery

[Renee]

and you didn't come here with anything. I was expecting flowers and chocolates and something. At least something. But you've just come here for a blow job.

[Courtney]

This is the end times. This is the end times, I'm telling you. And because it's so real, like, how many. Like, I. I love what you're saying about. This is really a depiction of what it looks like for men to thrive in a culture that has normalized women being disrespected.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? Like, this is. The polygamist is the perfect case study for what it's like for men to get away with. With. Or the type of men that are born in a culture that coaches women to just normalize. Disrespect.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And dysfunction in their relationships. Because as much as we can say, oh, these women, like, there's so many things we can learn from each of them.

[Renee]

So many.

[Courtney]

But what I love about this series is, like you said, it allows us to see that there is nobody else to blame for any of this dysfunction than Janas Gamora. Right, Right. And yet it's the women that have to deal with the consequences. And yet they still stay and stay latched on, unfortunately, despite the fact they know they are being treated badly because they're existing in a culture which says you have to take it. You have to take it, like, repeatedly throughout the whole thing. I was thinking, this man isn't even handsome. And then I remembered, oh, but he's rich, but he's actually Rich. And unfortunately this thing is happening in a culture where and for a lot of us we can relate to that being married as a status is more important than the health of the marriage. Imagine, do you get what I mean? And the safety of the marriage. And so many of us grew up seeing that. You know, if you're of diaspora, maybe you're still, you know, from African, Caribbean. To be fair, any culture could get these days. Right.

[Renee]

It's even a Western, it's even a

[Courtney]

thank you so much. But also not really though I think

[Renee]

to an extent like patriarchy. So. So patriarchy. Not to say that every like African culture, Caribbean culture has been match matrilineal or whatever. But the imposition of patriarchy, particularly in diasporic communities, but particularly like that's one of the biggest evidences of white supremacy still holding the like the black community hostage. Like patriarchy was not obviously again, not all communities were patriarchal. But what we know as patriarchy is a Western import, I think.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And the way that we see it, but even the way we see polygamy, me as a cultural like heritage for a lot of us that is still quite male centric because there's very few, I guess, tribal backgrounds or ethnic backgrounds where women are allowed to be polygamous. Do you. I mean. In the same way. In the same way. And so I think even seeing that, like seeing Joyce say the best way for us to kind of build a life around your dysfunction is for you to just become polygamous. Like let's just put a label on it that makes it at least feel a bit more culturally acceptable. But actually at the end of it, what's actually at the base of this is your adulteress.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

You're adulteress. And I. Maybe because of the money, maybe because of the access to power, maybe because of the love that she has for her husband, whatever it may be. There's so many different layers to. To relationships. I don't or can't leave you. It will actually be more. And that's what I mean about this culture that has coached women to have to normalize dysfunction.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

It would be more detrimental for me to leave you than for me to stay with you even though you gave me gonorrhea. How crazy is that? That you can have a culture which puts women in that kind of tension where I have to literally divvy up up, leave you and be single and deal with all the cultural consequences that come with that or stay in something that is extremely unsafe and dangerous for My health, for my family, for my children.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And those two things actually be of equal weight on the measuring scale to the point where I actually have to consider these two things. I think that's absolutely crazy.

[Renee]

Yeah. No, insane.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? And I. I do really like the idea that. And the way they portrayed the women, because they were also. They all had their complexities. Not that any of them were to blame for anything that happened to them. But I think that, for example, with Joyce, her attachment to her brand and the. The portrayal of things and the image of things versus what was actually happening in her home, I think a lot of women can also be caught up in that as well. It's the how do things look, the optics, the aesthetics versus. Versus my actual safety. And me believing that we've come to a time where I could actually recover from the negative, I guess, backlash that could come from me actually putting myself first. Because this man. I think it made me think about this thing around, like, you know, people often tell women who have experienced adultery or something in their marriage where they have great, solid grounds to actually end their marriage. And they're often told, you know, you know, don't break up your home. And it's like, okay, but I'm not the one breaking up my home. The husband broke the home first, you know, and being able to redirect the attention to. These women aren't the ones at fault here. This man is wholly the problem, right? And he's the one who's breaking down his home bit by bit with his own hands, his own choices and his own decisions. But it's then put on the women to put the. Those pieces back together. Right. Whether it's the pieces of their life, the pieces of the home, the pieces for the children. And they don't often. They don't always get that. Right. Sorry, but they often aren't the ones who are asked, damn, what do you actually want? What do you actually need? And it's even worse that if they were to say what they want and they. What they need for their own safety, they'd be met with all of these cultural pressures to keep things together, even though the thing you're telling them to keep together is toxic and completely dysfunctional. Like. Like Jonas was not a good husband to any of these women.

[Renee]

He wasn't even a good man. Let's start with that. He wasn't a good man. And I think we could see it across the board in all of his relationships. I don't know if there was a single Person that had close proximity to him, that actually liked him. And I think that gave us a little bit of insight as to how we should also judge the character of a man, because he was. I'll give it to him. He was consistent and consistently a bad person. Was consistently. We saw the abuse of power, even with his brother.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And when his brother took a stand, actually threatening his livelihood and threatening his job because he was somebody that was trying to stand up to him. And it tangential, but it reminds me that patriarchy also doesn't serve men.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Unless you're at the top. Exactly. Unless you're at the top and unless you have the resources, should you come even a peg below, there's always going to be somebody that's trying to, you know, exert power over you. And we saw that in the tale of the two brothers. And his brother wasn't. He wasn't an amazing man by any, you know, whatever. But he still did take care of Essie. He still did take care of Sarah, who was his surrogate daughter for a long period of time, but because he was a peg down from, like, Genasi was paying that man's bills.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Which meant that he was now implicated in this web of diabolicalness. Man, it was. It was just. It was just really horrible to see. And I completely agree with you, Courtney. I feel like the attention that we put on these women and how much they need to do something to fix this marriage or how. Why doesn't she just leave? I think we can deal with that in a second.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

But let's actually recognize that this is a man that is wicked and he actually needs to experience consequences. If there's one thing that I've always loved about what you share, Courtney, it's the fact that it's important that people experience consequences through and through. Yes, there is forgiveness. Yes, there is repentance. Yes, there's all of these other things. But actions have consequences, facts. And I think what really irritates me about patriarchy, what irritates me about the breakdown of relationships, infidelity in the modern world, is that we are not doling out consequences to people that have broken covenant. And it's usually the guy.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Especially men. We need to see consequences. And it's unfortunate, because if your livelihood as a woman is tied to this man who is now breaking covenant, it means that you're in a difficult position where you actually dole out consequences. You can't.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Because those consequences will have ramifications for you and your livelihood. Okay. I'm going to leave this man. But now I'm broke and I have no money. And that's why even today, there's so much messaging towards young women about establishing yourself independently. You cannot build your livelihood on a man. You cannot.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Any man.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Don't care who he is. I don't care if he is nice to you. I don't care if he has the track record of the kindest person. If that man's name is not Jesus. Jesus, you should not be building your life on him. You should not be. Because the moment that he decides that he doesn't like you, that's you finished.

[Courtney]

And this is the thing people forget. If you build your life on a person, you are at the mercy of their mood. If they wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day, you are going down the cliff like that. You are at the mercy of this person's mood, your usefulness to them, and their decision to be benevolent towards you. And yet human beings are not benevolent people. Do you get what I mean? Like, but we're not omni. Benevolent. I think something that you touched on there, which I think is so, like, core to this whole thing as well, is I think the reason why Joyce seemed to be the only one who left this whole thing with a win is because Joyce had the most, I would say, legal rights out of these four or out of these three. And I think there's a big lesson here for women in general, especially those who are getting traditionally married. If I know a lot of our sisters who listen to us are based in the continent and there are different definitions and cultures around marriage everywhere. Do you get what I mean? But we're existing in a system where the law often reigns above culture. Right? And so if you are somebody, and this is something that I was discussing a lot with my family last year because. Because do you know who Daddy Lumber is?

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So Daddy Lumber is a Ghanaian high life artist who unfortunately passed away. And when he passed away, he entered his name, entered a whole bunch of drama because he was legally married to a woman in Germany, but he was also traditionally married to another lady in Ghana. And there became this big, and I mean like, major legal case as to who is entitled to. To the legacy of this man, obviously monetarily.

[Renee]

Right?

[Courtney]

And it became this big wake up call for a lot of women within the Ghanaian community and Africa in general of we are saying, you know, traditional marriage. Traditional marriage. But what are your legal rights?

[Renee]

Right?

[Courtney]

And as a woman, you must be aware of your legal rights as you are in partnership with a man. Man. The big word here is partnership. Because partnership, we have touted it so much from the spiritual perspective, which is necessary, but there's also the legal element of partnership. If you are going to be in financial partnership with a man, if your life, livelihood, your living situation, whatever, is tied up with the income of a man, the inheritances of a man, whatever it is, the provision of a man, you must also have things in writing. A legal partnership. And so many women were waking up to the fact that, damn, I have built my life with this man, but I don't have anything on paper to suggest that this man owes me something if he were to pass away. And that's why I'm saying Joyce left with the upper hand of things, because technically, Joyce was the only legal wife amongst them all.

[Renee]

True. That's so true.

[Courtney]

Do you get what I mean? There's a reason when they put Joyce and Jonas on that newspaper, Joyce had access to a few more privileges than Essie, than Metipa. And this is not me pooping on traditional marriage. I was traditionally married. You get what I mean? But one thing I told that man and I told my mama, traditional marriage ain't gonna be the end.

[Renee]

I need the papers.

[Courtney]

We need to go to that registry. I need your papers because I'm not married to you till we have that. What? Wedding certificate. Wedding certificate.

[Renee]

Let me get the paper.

[Courtney]

And literally, I've been saying this thing. I think I said it on a community call once with tms, which is one thing that my mom always taught me when we growing up is the UK loves the paper.

[Renee]

They do.

[Courtney]

They love a document. Give me.

[Renee]

Give me a document, baby.

[Courtney]

They love a document. And that's what she loves about this country, because if it ain't in a document, it's not real. Okay? And I will. I will take back what I said. Traditional marriage is marriage, right? It definitely is marriage. But within the country and the context we are in, my legal rights do not really kick in to the fullest extent until I get that thing on paper and we get that wedding certificate. And the reason why I want to emphasize this is because there are a lot of women who are being twanged right now by men telling them, it's fine, let's do traditional marriage, because they know that without that wedding certificate, without going to the registry, without making it legal, without actually saying those legal vows, as much as you may be traditionally or spiritually married, you're not entitled to as much as you could be. And the. The thing is, you can say, oh, well, I can fight for it. You'll be fighting for a long time. And it's hard. Hard to. To fight when you're also grieving.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

It's hard to fight legally when you're also feeling betrayed or you're also feeling insecure in your place, in what's going to happen to your future. And so just secure yourself now. And any man who wants to prove to you that he actually loves you will give you the security of an actual wedding certificate. An actual wedding. And I know there's a lot of cultural conversation right now. Marriage is just a piece of paper. That piece of paper is loud. Let me tell you something. If about pieces of paper not mattering, go and burn your degree. Go and burn your birth certificate. How can you say that? Pieces of paper don't mean anything. They do, honey. In the court of law, I. Bravo.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I just don't want women to be cheated out of their security because they're building marriage on he loves me or culture or they call me our wife. Our wife.

[Renee]

It's not ours.

[Courtney]

Please.

[Renee]

Because anything happens to that man and

[Courtney]

you're so your back, sis.

[Renee]

I' ma come on to that paper trail real quick. But something that you were saying just around access, really for me was very much apparent in Matipa's narrative. Yeah, because we saw her. Exactly. We saw her go from somebody that was out and about around town talking about, I'm wifey number two, he's going to leave you for me. Genasi knows I'm not leaving without a dime.

[Courtney]

Zero, no interrupt together.

[Renee]

While she had access, she didn't have open ownership. And when you are in a relationship with anybody, it's not just about having access. A man can give you access, but you need ownership. But you need ownership. Case in point, when she went to go and withdraw money, or you know what? She had access. But guess what? That soon declined because she didn't own the account. She wasn't a co lead. And it's so important, what you said about making sure that you are secure. There is nothing cute about conceding your ownership just because you want to temporarily access a man's resources. Good. Do not concede your ownership. You absolutely need to get the piece of paper. You absolutely need to be a co signer on the account. You absolutely need to have your own. You absolutely need to be in the will. You absolutely need to have power of attorney. That's what partnership looks like. And any man that gives you access without ownership to him, you are a bona fide asset. But once you become a liability, guess what? He's going to sell you off. So I think it indicates how your partner is seeing you. You in their response to these things. Do they really care about you? I'll go as far as to. There's been some very interesting conversations online around how do we reimburse stay at home moms? How do we reimburse women that are pregnant and they may not necessarily be able to do 5050 or things are. You know, there's significant sacrifices that are being made by women in order to keep things afloat.

[Courtney]

You make them co owners in what's being built.

[Renee]

You may. I don't care. Care if you have no job at the moment in that you are not formally employed because you know you're not working for a company. If you are a stay at home mother. You are employed.

[Courtney]

You are building something with you are.

[Renee]

Because without you the family is not running.

[Courtney]

You're actually doing free labor. You're doing free labor. That would have to be paid for.

[Renee]

Thank you. Thank you. It would need to be paid for.

[Courtney]

Exactly.

[Renee]

And he. The. The person that you're with could probably pay for it. Could probably pay for it. Then you should not be stay at home for. But that's the thing. The whole stay at home narrative works when you are with somebody that is not the average. Because you have for the average family right now. Both people need to work.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

If you are in a position whereby you can be supported by one person's income, that means that person is above the average. That means that person can probably afford to pay. Pay some domesticated help.

[Courtney]

Got you.

[Renee]

So if you are a stay at home mother. Because we've seen a time and time again on social media. We've seen it in some of the conversations we've been having whereby women feel that they lose their ownership as soon as they concede and will not concede. But as soon as they become a stay at home mother. Because now they have to be asking permission to access some of these assets. You know what I'm saying? So the ownership is far more important than the access. You need to get your name on things. You need to get legal rights to things. Because if anything should happen you need to have proof. Proof that this person cared enough.

[Courtney]

Exactly.

[Renee]

And loves you enough and sees you as a partner enough to say I'm gonna leave a little something something for the mother of my kids.

[Courtney]

Thank you.

[Renee]

For the person that I call wife.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And the person I built life with. Right. And that's why I'm so passionate about it because like you said, said a lot of women are being cheated out of the resources in the name of. Well, you have access right now. Like you have a place to live and you get to, I don't know, buy nice stuff or you get to do. No, but it's about the long term. It's really about the long term. Is your back covered if this person is not in the picture?

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I'm a firm believer if this person really respects you and really loves you, they'll make sure that even if they weren't in the picture, you'll get paid your dues, you'll have what belongs to you. You one, especially if we have children or two, especially if I can. I know whether he wants to acknowledge it or not, you have helped me build what I have currently. Right. And I think that's why it's important for things to be. Even if it's not in both of your names, there's something that you can put in writing. You can literally write trusts and deeds and wills and things like that which give you ownership on paper. And paper is so important. I think we're losing the essence of that because we are in a more casual relationship culture. People are forgetting that there's actually a lot of value in having things on paper. It's necessary so that you're not caught in a bind because you also never know what can come up in the future. And I think seeing Joyce's situation compared to like you said, Matipa's situation, that's literally why their outcomes were very, very different.

[Renee]

Very different.

[Courtney]

Very, very different at. I just wish more women knew about it because it's so sad to see women lose out on so much. And I think that's. You have to advocate yourself in that and there are going to be men and people who make you feel like you're doing too much or. And I hate that that can sometimes become rebuttal with oh, you're being a gold digger. No, we're digging for this gold together because like you said with being a stay at home mother or even I even see it as I think when you, you start building with somebody, you need to sit down and have very business like conversations about how you're going to build your lives together. Because us coming in covenant with one another in contract with one or however you want to see marriage, child, this is actually a partnership which is going to affect both of our lives. And, and unfortunately the part that women are often cheated out of is you're going to have children. That is a very priceless deed. As much as people can say oh, but you can get surrogates. I'm actually so sorry. But do you know even that is they don't get paid enough for what you're doing.

[Renee]

The cash loss, the lost wages, the physical.

[Courtney]

Exactly.

[Renee]

Exertion of actual pregnancy.

[Courtney]

Oh, it's a lot. But you, if you don't talk about building a family from that partnership kind of perspective in that having a, having children. I think we talk about children so much as a liability that we forget that children are actually a blessing.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And actually a multiplier of wealth. Do you get what I mean? Like you having children within your family, that's a way to scale up wealth.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Quite quickly actually. Especially if they're good and their heads are incorrect, which is why you're always knocking on these kids head. But that's an expansion of this business as a family. Right. And so me taking a step back as a stay at home mother is actually just investing in another area of our portfolio.

[Renee]

Thank you.

[Courtney]

Do you, I mean it's not just me giving you free childcare and I think that's, that's what I mean. Like we need to start putting more respect on women's names because becoming a mother, training up children, taking care of a house, being a supportive partner, partner, all of that is a lot of work. And it's not that doesn't take away from what men are doing. It's to say if you're in a partnership with somebody, you're both pulling your weight. It may be in different ways, but it doesn't mean it's of different value.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

And if women are going to be paid well and fairly for the value that they bring to building up that partnership, building up this family, it doesn't look like getting, getting an expenses paid amex. It looks like getting co ownership of what we're building on paper.

[Renee]

Thank you. Like it's, it's again very tangential and probably something we can talk about in another episode, but I did come across a like tick tock video that was talking about the differences between the algorithm for women and the algorithm for men, especially when it comes to finances. So for men they are sold. Ownership, they are sold. The businesses, entrepreneurship, they're sold. You know, the productivity stuff, it's all about investing money, that kind of stuff. Whereas for women, sold the aesthetic. So it's the expenses, it's the, you know, the blank street matches, it's the Starbucks, it's The aloe outfits and stuff like that. And what you were saying evoked that for me. Insofar as we are literally being coached to sacrifice our long term health, happiness and financial standing. How often do we think about, even when we, we consider children, naturally the conversation is around setting up our children for success later down the line. Right. We develop the trust, we have the, the whatever for your kids so that they actually have the resources to carry on once, you know, mum and dad are gone. But how often do we have the conversation about women's pensions, about women when, you know, we're, we're old and whatever? Especially because for the most part, a lot of women outlive men. And women above a certain age are actually more likely to be in poverty.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So it's not even just about the sacrifices that women are doing right now for the family, but also your sacrifices, your livelihood in the future, especially if it's not accounted for. So the conversation has to be more than expenses, it has to be more than general upkeep. The conversations really need to be around what's my pension investment? What's my pension saying? How are we going to take care and look after each other when we are old? We can't just be planning for legacy when our livelihood when we're older is still not accounted for. These are long term partnership goals. Like when we say partnership, that's what we mean. It is, we are in this together till the very end. So you, you have to have the very morbid conversations around life insurance. You have to have the morbid conversations around what happens if one of us gets sick. It's so depressing to see some of the statistics of men that leave women when their partner gets sick and vice versa. Because women are like four or five times more likely to stay when their partner gets sick or has some kind of terminal illness or something that happens to them.

[Courtney]

And women outlive.

[Renee]

Men and women outlive. Exactly. So we as women, we really need to start thinking about, okay, what does it look like to build a life in the long term? Long term, really and truly, if I'm living to 60, 70, 80 years old, what does my life look like then? We cannot afford to live in the now. We cannot afford to be blindsided by love bombing. We cannot afford to be blindsided by what a man can give you today, what can that man give you in the next 20 years?

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

What can we build together in the next X amount of years that will set us up for success? You have to have the conversations the same way that the algorithm is pushing out these things to women. You'd actually need to be paying attention to what is the algorithm pushing towards men? Because that's probably where the big picture bucks are.

[Courtney]

Facts.

[Renee]

That's what you need to be paying attention to.

[Courtney]

Facts, facts, facts, facts. And it's making sure that you're not just thinking about this for yourself.

[Renee]

Right.

[Courtney]

But you're with a man who's also thinking about this with you. Right. I think that's the part that often gets left out of the conversation. Women are then, you know, you have your emergency fund, you have your money for when your rainy day that he doesn't know about, all of that. But how about we kick things up again and we also talk to these partners. Partners about what are you going to be doing to secure me if something was to happen to you or something was to happen to me? Right. Actually getting partners who are on board with building life with you, but making sure that you also benefit and aren't just building a life for them.

[Renee]

Exactly.

[Courtney]

Right. That's a man who's actually invested in your best interest.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

And is ready to help you become all that you've been called to be. I also think there's something you said earlier which I wanted to touch on, which is patriarchy is not actually beneficial for men, and that's 100% true. And I think even for the men at the top, patriarchy still doesn't benefit them because every man at the top has something that they've mastered, which also serves as a vice, which means you could still easily be taken down, oh, 100%. Do you get what I mean? And I think that's where a lot of men start to think they're invincible because they've conquered money and influence and power and all of that stuff. But within them, there is still a vice simply because they yearn for those things. Right. If you are hungry for power, if you're hungry for money, if you're hungry, if you're greedy, you're going to be taken down by your own greed.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

If you are obsessed with the validation that sex gives you or the release or whatever, you're going to be defeated by lust. It's only a matter of time. And unfortunately, because of the way capitalism and patriarchy works, for a long while, it will seem to you like you are winning, but a lot. And I think a lot of men learn this, unfortunately, towards the end of their lives, which is actually, you ultimately lose. You lose a lot of genuine relationships. You lose your health and that's what we saw with Jonas. It's like you. No one needed to be your downfall. You were your own downfall. Right. Your own lust, your own incontrollable desires, your own ability to push people away and not respond to anyone's correction, anyone's advice. Your own hunger is what killed you. Right. And when you don't learn to master your own desires, they will master you.

[Renee]

Oh, they will eat you up.

[Courtney]

And that man, as much as he was rich, as much as he was powerful, as much as he had women, children, businesses, whatever, he was still a slave to something. And I think that is where every person has to look in the mirror and be reminded of the fact that as powerful as you think you are, you're still submitted to something. And that thing can be the end of you if you don't learn to master it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I think sometimes that's where a lot of men and women can fall short. Because for a while, it will look like you're winning. And so you don't question your appetites because you're full and you're satisfied. But then at some point your pleasure turns to poison and you can't recognize it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Because you've been so. You've been giving yourself into. Into everything you want. You've been over indulging so much that you can't recognize when you've just ingested poison.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And it was easy to get it into your system.

[Renee]

Imagine.

[Courtney]

Because you are not. It's not even disciplined. You're not principled.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I think it's the principle of things. I think all of us learn it as we're getting older. All of us have our struggle in one area or another. But especially if you're somebody with resources, I think it's more important for you to start looking at those things, because resources only amplify and give you access to your vice.

[Renee]

That's a word. Because that's why it becomes more and more like when we think about, like the neuroscience behind it, Right. Like the. This notion that the brain is constantly looking for bigger hits. You take the first hit, and then all of us, all of a sudden you're looking for something bigger to give you that same hit. I think it's the same with a lot of people that are in power. It's now that I have access to all of these resources, I can just satisfy. Satisfy the desires of my flesh going unchecked. And I think what's actually quite sad, it has made me think of Macbeth and the story of Macbeth. And I think there was one scene where he says, I am in blood. Stepped in so far that to go back would be the same as going forward. And it's a shame because I think there is always an exit at some point on the road. Like, for all the people that have found themselves in some of these difficult situations, whether it's relationally or, like, within family dynamics or whatever, there's always an opportunity for you to stop and turn back. Always an opportunity before you get to the end. Even for Janasi, like the fact that Joyce was taking him back multiple times. The fact that he even got to a point where actually, I think before Lindani, like, we can stabilize more. We can actually stabilize more. You can actually live, you know, come back. You can come back from here. But I think too many of them. Them go past the point of return. Yeah, they don't even recognize that there's actually an exit on the highway. It's like driving on the Mi 5, and you're not even. Because you're. You're so determined to go down this road, you've missed the fact that there's actually an exit here and you can turn back. I think when you are on that road, especially as a man, within the context of patriarchy, you need to recognize when the time has come for you to exit, turn back. Like, actually turn back back. And I think because we've entered into a culture that's so black and white, it can sometimes feel like, well, there's no point in me turning back because I've carried down this road for so long. It's working for me. I don't see any point in becoming a good person or turning back or trying to respect my wife for anybody, please, I am begging you. Anybody that is listening right now, and you've been given a second chance, take it. And don't look back.

[Courtney]

Take it.

[Renee]

Because it is such a blessing, heaven forbid, that you get to 50, 60, 70 years old and you have a cascade of regrets because you didn't take the exit.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

When the exit comes, recognize it and turn back. Whatever it is, whatever is the vice that you're experiencing, there's always a way back. So do it before it's too late.

[Courtney]

100. And I think that's the part we always have to also remember. I think because we're existing within right now. We're young. It seems like chances are abundant.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

But actually, in life, there are such things as a point of no return. There are places you can cross. And this is for every leader, every person who's building something. Anyone who just wants to see their life go anywhere. Yeah, everyone will face opportunities to turn back around. Turn back around. Here's a second chance. Here's a third chance. Fourth chances rarely come back. Then you hit a point of no return, no coming back, and you have to be given over to the thing that you are pursuing. And unfortunately, it's only when you face it or you attain it that you realize this thing is going to kill me. It's going to be the end of me. And I think that's the essence of temptation. That's the essence of any kind of vice or bad habit or addiction or whatever. It's I'm pursuing this thing because it's so attractive. Then by the time I realize how destructive it actually is, it's actually too late.

[Renee]

Late.

[Courtney]

And so take those first second third chances. Right? But it requires that turnback moment. Like, I think that that quote in Macbeth is so relevant to it because, yes, it would actually take as much effort to turn back as it would to go forward. But why wouldn't you then put the effort to go back.

[Renee]

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[Courtney]

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[Courtney]

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com not every sale happens at the register. Before AT&T Business Wireless, checking out customers on our mobile POS systems took too long. Basically a staring contest where everyone loses. It's crazy what people will say during an awkward silence. Now transactions are done before the silence takes hold. That means I can focus on the task at hand and make an extra sail or two. Sometimes I do miss the bonding time sometimes. AT&T business Wireless Connecting changes everything. I think allowing yourself to do the work that comes with repairing repentance. We often talk about, oh, we need to repent. We need to repent. And you, you do 100. But repentance is work. It's a work to renew your mind. It's a work to literally change and reorient the direction that you've been walking in. And it's hard. But it's so necessary because if not, you'll continue walking in the path of destruction. And that's on a spiritual, physical level, mental level, every level. Level. Everyone has to do their part for their life to turn around. And we can put that responsibility on everybody else. Right? Everyone else should adjust their reaction to us. Everybody else should help us. Everybody else should come and save us. God should do the work for us. God should do a miracle. Repentance is your responsibility. Good. You can't outsource it. You have to do it.

[Renee]

You have to change.

[Courtney]

You have to change. Change. You have to do the work. You have to fight the fight. It's you. It's you versus you. A door has been open to you. Life has been made available to you. But if you don't want it bad enough, you don't get it.

[Renee]

You have to make the decision, man.

[Courtney]

Exactly. Walk in the way. Walk in the way. That will get you through that door. And temptations are temptations for a reason. They are very magnetic. They pull us back. They pull us back, but we must fight against that. And I think that what you said is so beautiful in that you must be be able to see yourself as worthy of a second chance, worthy of turning things around. As much as you may be used to doing things a certain way for a really long time, it's going to be hard, but you must be able to say, I need to change and I'm willing to do the work to change in order to save myself. To save myself, to save the people around me. Because I mean, Janaska Moore is a perfect example of putting everybody, everybody else in destruction's way so that you can

[Renee]

have a great time, your whole family legacy. That's how generational trauma is.

[Courtney]

Exactly. And we saw that in Menzie and I think as well, the personal responsibility can be seen through Mpumi and Menzies choices. Right. In Pume. Sorry. In Pume's choice was, I'm gonna take a step away from my family and forgive you guys because this is so toxic. And her life seemed to be flourishing. And then you've got Menzi who. Who's like, you know what? Now I'm gonna become like you. If this is how men win, I'm

[Renee]

in the game, I'm trying to win.

[Courtney]

Tap me in. And I think that's the unfortunate part. And that's also the part we can both. We can all learn from. Sorry. From both of their choices of when you are handed familial dysfunction, you have two options. One, you repeat the cycle two. You do the healing necessary to put a stop to it.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

The latter is hard. Really, really hard, but so freeing and necessary. The former is easy because patterns are easy to fall into. We don't even notice when we're falling into patterns.

[Renee]

That's the problem.

[Courtney]

But if you fall into the pattern, you also meet the expected end. Right. It plays out for you time and time again. These actions lead to these consequences. And. And we can sometimes think, oh, well, I wasn't handed this pattern. But you're carrying it.

[Renee]

You are.

[Courtney]

You can choose to put it down. You. You were handed these patterns. Undeniably, yes. It. What? You didn't conjure it up. But just because someone put it in your hand doesn't mean you have to carry it. Put it down. And we can get so used to, oh, well, this is how everyone's like, my mom did it this way. My grandma did it this way. My great grandma did. Or my dad did this this way. My granddad did it this way. Okay. But you can choose to let it fall and go past you. It doesn't have to be your portion, and it does.

[Renee]

Like, you've seen the ending. You've actually. You've actually had the privilege of seeing the ending. Some people are carrying things and they. They are unaware of how this is going to end.

[Courtney]

Exactly.

[Renee]

But in the case of family cycles, you've seen where this goes. You've actually seen where this goes. You've seen the end of this story. So choose an another one. It kind of reminds me of. I don't know if you remember, like, back in the day, the Goosebumps novels, they used to have books where you could choose the track, and sometimes you'll get to an end and it's like, oh, I chose wrongly. Yeah, let me backpedal and choose something different.

[Courtney]

Exactly.

[Renee]

It's kind of like those books. Okay. We've now seen what that end has in store for us. Let's go back and make a different decision.

[Courtney]

Exactly. Exactly. And sometimes it's hard for us to learn the lesson. Lesson. Sometimes it's hard for us to even realize that we're in the pattern.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

But as soon as you recognize it, you have to wake up. You have to wake up and you have to do the work to change. So the polygamist was such an insightful, very angering, but also quite entertaining series.

[Renee]

Very entertaining.

[Courtney]

Would highly recommend watching it if you can stomach it, because there is a lot going on. There are so many dysfunctional things in that show. So just watch. Watch with you know, a guard around your heart. But, wow, Netflix really did their thing. But next on the Rasta is talking about the trend that is people hiding their partners online. Because you might have seen it, girls, the, you know, the picture of I'm engaged, but the man's whole head is blurred off of his body. Is you engaged to the invisible man? He's invisible emoji or, you know, emoji on it. Or simply hiding your partner's face away from the public when it comes to, you know, dating and relationships, what are your thoughts on it?

[Renee]

I might have a controversial take on this one, but show us that man, sis. Show us that man. Not in the. In the sense of, I'm expecting you to show all of the details of your relationship, but I think if you are going to the lengths of blurring out this man completely, like, we've seen that somebody is in the picture and you've blurred him out to this extent, it's kind of like, girl, what are you afraid of? Yeah, that's. That's the message that it's giving me. There's something that you're afraid of. And I think we spoke about this a little bit in one of our last episodes where we're talking about privacy and the fact that, you know, it's fine to want to have a private relationship, and it's a beautiful thing to want to guard your relationship. But I do think that sometimes, especially within the black community, I ain't gonna lie to you. We can be disproportionately secretive about our relationships. And I wonder if that's coming from a place of true privacy and the desire for privacy. Privacy or genuine fear. Especially because we've seen and come across all of these narratives of I posted my partner and someone came to me as a woman immediately. And I don't know about everybody else but me personally. Come to me as a woman. If I post this man and you have a story about him.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

I need to know, please, because. And I think it also speaks to the fact, again, that we disproportionately place the responsibility of the relationship on the woman.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

If the man is trying to trifling, why are you coming to me? Why should I be embarrassed?

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Why? I'm not the one that stepped out at all. If anything, he should be embarrassed. Go on his page and say that he's a cheater.

[Courtney]

Oh, Lord God, no.

[Renee]

Go there.

[Courtney]

We don't co sign cyberbullying.

[Renee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys, this is all hyper. Put insert caveats here. Insert caveats. But the, the double standard and this, this, I don't know. I, I, I think that sometimes a, a lot of these partners being posted in this way is showing that there's something that we're afraid of as a community. Not even just individually, but also as a community. Just the secretiveness of being in a relationship. And granted, there's levels to it. So there's people that have, you know, thousands or hundreds of thousands of followers. And sometimes it's, it's really uncomfortable. In the same way that you might want to protect a child, for example, there's actual predators or people that are, that have some very untoward intentions towards you and your relationship. However, if in every single post of you and this partner.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

I'm seeing you edit this man's whole head out that you've gone to the, like genuinely. It's giving just neck. I love the artful ones where it's like we can see maybe like the side profile.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Or even the back or anything like that. So, okay, there's a man in the picture that's real cute. I love that photo for you. But you've gone to the extreme. The extreme of editing this man's whole upper body. Always seeing his legs, I've seen. Because I've seen some extremities. I've seen just legs. I've seen just an arm. I've seen.

[Courtney]

But you're talking about, like, everything else is edited out. It's not just like an artful.

[Renee]

Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. It's not an artful.

[Courtney]

The artful. No, I'm just explaining it for you.

[Renee]

Yeah, yeah, no, no. The artful ones, I think they're kind of cute. It's giving. I'm private, but, you know, I'm in a relationship. Relationship. The edited ones, like the Photoshop ones, especially when it's a significant life milestone, I think engagement. I hear that. Because, you know, you're working towards marriage. But if you married to the man and you still edited, it's just very strange.

[Courtney]

I think it's very strange.

[Renee]

You can just say that you married. You don't have to show his whole body. We don't. We don't.

[Courtney]

And that's the thing. No one compelled you for this picture. You posted it. Like, no one would. You could have just showed us a picture of your ring. That, that would have been enough.

[Renee]

Right.

[Courtney]

Like actually draw the lines. But the actual editing, at some point, that becomes a conversation.

[Renee]

It's creepy.

[Courtney]

And they overtake. I think it does overtake everything because it's like There was so many other ways to do this. Why did you choose to do it like that? And I actually don't know why people choose to do it like that. I find it very strange.

[Renee]

We should have some people on to share their thoughts.

[Courtney]

Who have done it.

[Renee]

Yeah. Who have done it or should share their thoughts. Or sisters, if you're listening to this, I would love to know. Like, please respectfully share. Share. Are you team edited or are you team.

[Courtney]

I think it's a weird online trend

[Renee]

and I also do think that it doesn't again, have to be a dichotomy, like we don't have to be in your relationship. Because I also think on the other side of the spectrum, there are folks that are out here, like, here's my boyfriend. Like, here's everything about my whole ev. Like all of my life is about. It revolves around this guy's relationship. And unless I'm seeing him do the exact same energy because cuz, I don't know, maybe I'm. I'm still growing and I'm still a bit petty. But I also don't like when your girl is out here posting new bears. But I go on your page and there's nothing about her there. Oh, that gives me the ick so bad. Why are you not. Why is she not on your page like this? No, it gives me the ick because you're hiding something.

[Courtney]

Why?

[Renee]

Oh, it's my professional page. No, it can be professional with your girl.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

As well. In fact, that bolsters exactly a lot of men when they are perceived to be, you know, in a relationship. It actually bolsters their professional credibility.

[Courtney]

Absolutely. People think you're more responsible. Deals, deals, deals.

[Renee]

That's it. But I'm seeing clean profile and you're even removing the tags that your girlfriend is or your wife is. No. Is doing. I go on the tagged side on Instagram and there's nothing there. But I go on your girl's page

[Courtney]

and you're all up there, posted up. It's a strange one.

[Renee]

It's weird.

[Courtney]

It's a strange one for me. I agree with you. I think there's nothing wrong with wanting privacy. Like I. When I got engaged, I don't think I posted my partner's fate or my husband's face. He was obviously my fiance at that time. And I think it was just he's a more way more private person than I am and that would have really pushed him into something that he didn't need at that time. But at the same time, I think we are going a bit too close to that line of weird. When you are Photoshopping his whole head out of. You actually open an editing app to. To like you that I just don't understand.

[Renee]

Looking like something from the conjuring, like.

[Courtney]

Because now the whole conversation is what I did. Why is this? Why?

[Renee]

Why did you do this?

[Courtney]

You're marrying a headless man. Why did you do this? Is that the point of the post?

[Renee]

You know what? It's not even those. He posed for the photo and everything. But you've now edited out his entire.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Why?

[Courtney]

It's just a bit strange.

[Renee]

I think it's. I think it's weird.

[Courtney]

Just stop it. Like, just pick one of those artsy. Post the back, post the hand, post the leg, post the little him in there. But the whole. Close the apps, close the apps, close Photoshop, close chat, GPT, closet, all of them. Right now. Now, if you don't want to post his face, don't post anything with his head and face in it. It's that simple.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

That simple. Quite scary, but. Yeah. How are you feeling about the second half of the year?

[Renee]

I'm feeling good, man. I'm feeling good. It feels like 2026 is definitely racing.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

But I don't know if it's just like time perception. As I'm getting older, it feels like my conception of time is being much more compressed.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Renee]

But I'm. I'm excited for 2026. I feel like this first half has been beautiful, but second half, there's so many other things to look forward to. Got some weddings coming up in the family, so really excited for that. Nice. Very excited. More trips coming as well. I'm very excited for that too. I'm also excited for it to be cooler.

[Courtney]

Yes.

[Renee]

Because I know every two to three working days we're complaining about the heat in the uk, but guys, it genuinely is so serious and it. I'm. I'm glad it's shown a global spotlight on climate change. People are actually. No. Because he. That doesn't hear. Must feel.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So we need to be very, very serious about it. But I'm looking forward to the next half of the year, man. It's been. It's been a beautiful year in many. In many ways. And just seeing. Just seeing the evolution of life in so many people's lives has been a beautiful thing to witness. And I think for me, one thing that I've loved about this first half is just the opportunity to be very present with people that's been and very intentional with people as well. So just a couple of days ago, celebrating a friend's child's birthday and also celebrating birthdays and just beautiful, beautiful things, being part of in person community. And there was another article I was reading on just. And then content that I saw on the importance of community, but also the inconvenience of community. And I think this last. I wouldn't say that it's been inconvenient in the sense that I. Well, it's been inconvenient, but I'm happy that it's been inconvenient. I think. Exactly. It's been effort. I think that's a better word for it. But the last six months have definitely been effort. And I foresee the next six months also being. It requires effort. Right. To maintain a community. But it's been so rewarding. Yeah, it's been so rewarding to see so many people in my life, life thriving in their individual lanes, seeing them grow, seeing them mature. We're definitely heading into that decade where we're just seeing so many people's lives mature, change. So many things happening in a short period of time. And I think even seeing prayers be answered or certain things that folks have been waiting on for a while, it's been beautiful.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So I think for me, overall, I've been content. Obviously there's been some very interesting periods, though. One thing I still need to get checked out, but I've been getting sick recurringly, so I need to figure that one out. So, girls, any suggestions for the bolstering the immune system? Please be. Be sharing that. But I think, not to say that it's been like super serious, but I think it's also put into perspective the importance of, again, being present, but also just taking care of myself, noticing the changes in my body, being kind to myself. I know that's something we harp on about every single single, like six to 12 months on the podcast where we do reflections, be kind to ourselves, speak nicely to ourselves. But I cannot, especially as you are growing and changing. As a woman, you must be your biggest advocate. You must be kind to yourself and that kindness evolves.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So for me, like, the last six months has really looked like me being gentle to myself because I have been kind to myself, but I don't think I've been gentle to myself. I've always been kind in a harsh kind of way or kind in. In a very. Come on, Renee, you can do this. But the last six months, I would say I have cultivated a. A gentleness in my internal Self talk and almost, I guess, nurturing gentleness in my internal self talk, which has been important for me because I think for a long time in my life, I haven't allowed myself the privilege of being somebody that accepts gentleness. So, yeah, in a roundabout way, those. That's how I've been feeling about the year so far. I'm optimistic. I'm grateful to the fact that I've got some incredible people in my life. Growing, evolving, practicing gentleness to myself, Being soft and not soft in the capitalist aesthetic ways of getting the matches and stuff like that, but just, I do be getting the matches. I do be getting the coffee. You know, I mentioned Blank street earlier. I do love me at Blank Street. In fact, last week, I did get myself an iced pistachio latte, so I really did enjoy that. But practicing that has been the hallmark feature of the last couple of months for me. Being gentle, like, it's all right. Like, yeah. Sometimes tap myself on the back a little bit.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

How about you?

[Courtney]

That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. The first half of the year was really, really good. I think the first two. Three. Three months spending it resting, just recalibrating. Like, I think 2025 was just such a milestone year that I was just still soaking things in. At the beginning of 2026, I think I experienced quite a lot of, like, oh, okay, so many things have changed. So many things and dynamics in certain relationships are changing. I am, like, heading towards 29. Like, what am I doing? And I think I got into Q2 with a greater sense of direction and confidence and just, oh, okay. Like, no, you're good. Like, Courtney, you're actually good. I think I struggle sometimes to just give myself that pat on the back, which is recognizing just how far I've come. And as much as I'm extremely ambitious and always have this kind of vision of upward trajectory, I think it was just acknowledged knowledge in. No, girl, you've been doing some uphill climbing for a bit. Like, you pat yourself on the back, take a breather. And so came into Q2 with a bit more. Oh, okay, I've rested now. I'm ready to go again. And I think Q2 was just phenomenal. I really thank God for it. Like, Q2 was filled with so much, I would say confirmation, I think confirmation of, like, nah, this is. This is what I want to do. This is my path. I am good at this. Like, I think there are some points where you can get to in your career and in your life where you can just Get a bit shaky and your confidence can be shaken a little bit.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

But I think Q2 of 2026 was stabilizing, and it was like, oh, no, okay, cool, we're good. I saw a lot of growth. I saw a lot of doors open within business and within personal life. And I was like, okay, I like this. I like the woman I've entered into the second half of the year as I think I'm looking forward to. I think I'm looking forward to focus in the second half of the year. I really see the second half of the year as the, like, build up to the next year. So it's nice to think about what I want for 2027. For some people, it might be, like, goes way too early. But I do think that thinking about 2027 and what I want out of that year, year turning 30, you know, just getting to that point of like, okay, I think I know what I want to do. I know what my path is. Obviously, with these. This kind of creator entrepreneur lane, you're always winging it, But I'm like, oh, no. I think I have an idea of what I want my career to be, how I want my impact to be in the next one year, and let me spend the next six months kind of building that up and allowing myself to just see how good it gets, like, when I focus and when I do hard things. I think when I crossed 100k subscribers, I was like, oh, my gosh. I think the. The joy of it was also, you're not only good at this. You can actually do hard things. Like, you can actually. You can make this thing work, Courtney. Like, do it. And just seeing and hearing everyone's encouragement and stuff, I was like, you know what? This. It's been hard for me to keep commit to this path over the last eight years because you're battling so many, like, cultural conversations and stuff. But now I see how culture is shifting towards this conversation of, like, creator entrepreneurs and the impact that they can have and stuff and things that I've been living for eight years. But seeing it legitimized, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is cool, man. Like, this is actually my lane, and I enjoy it as much as it comes with its own insecurities and unfortunately, unknowns.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

I think the other thing that's been strange, though, on the more downside, unfortunately, is I found myself developing a. A certain degree of anxiety again. And I don't know. Well, I do know where it's sparing from, spurring from. I think when you are starting to push yourself out of your comfort zone. You just become naturally a bit anxious. And I think that's where I'm at now. I think there's a level of so many moving parts of my life. Life and things I've never been in before, things I've never done before, obviously, like, I've never been married before. And now, like, that reality of, oh, wow, like, you're actually a wife, you're building with someone. I've never been this serious about my career and charting out this kind of path for myself. And being like a portfolio entrepreneur is tough because you're literally just hacking at weeds to form a path. Right. Do you get what I mean? And so I think it's just coming with a lesson level of uncertainty and anxiety. And sometimes in my life, I've craved that stability and that predictability of things. Like, I'm always batting. Should I just go into corporate? Like, this is. This is too unstable, this is too hard. But at the same time, it's like, no, God is your anchor. Like, I think I've just been coming back to that. Like, God is my anchor. And over the last two weeks in particular, God has really been showing me how much he doesn't play about me. And I think, think that that strengthening in my spiritual life, in my relationship with God, in my identity as God's daughter, as a woman who has a calling and has gifts and talents and purpose, it's really helped me to find a bit more stability when that anxiety kind of rises up a bit. But it's been a bit hard. I can't lie. I suddenly find myself, like, I'll be out and for some reason I'm anxious and I don't know why. I. Yeah, I wake up with a. With a bit more anxiety than usual. And I. I thought anxiety was something that I had, like, really overcome.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

But I don't know. There's just been a new level, a new face to it. And obviously we pray against these things and stuff, but when they come, I do sometimes think, okay, God, what are you trying to teach me with this? Like, yeah, where in my life can there be a bit more dependence or a bit more strengthening in my anxiety, My identity. Sorry. To just help the anxiety kind of. I can find myself. I feel myself getting anxious right now, even talking about it, because it's just been a while since I've actually felt anxiety.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I'm just like, oh, okay,

[Renee]

let's

[Courtney]

just learn what this is about right now. And then not even just from an intellectual Perspective, but really from a spiritual one and, and a mental one. We can overcome this hurdle. But it's trying to teach me something about maybe some fears I have about where life is going.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And that's okay. It's okay. It's okay to. It's. It's okay to feel fear. It's just not okay to be ruled by it. And that's why I keep telling myself like, okay, you feel fear, it's okay, human, but just don't let this thing rule you. So how you can. Can we move forward past this? And yeah, that takes some time to process, but I think it's also just a reminder to not run ahead of myself. Yeah, that's where I'm at. But I'm looking forward to the second half of the year. I'm really happy with the people I'm surrounded by. I'm really happy with my communication in this season as well. I feel like I've get. I'm getting very good at just communicating what's on my mind and heart in a loving and productive way. And I feel like that's very mature. So I feel like I've done quite a bit of maturing where I'm like, okay, this is. These are. You're having some real grown woman conversations and setting some real grown women expectations.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Damn. Like, yeah, you've grown.

[Renee]

You grown.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And I like that for me, man.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And yeah, I like it. I feel like I'm getting into migration, woman's like era for real. I've always felt grown, but I feel like this one is very clear, like matching. Oh, no. Like, girl, you're grown. Grown. I don't know.

[Renee]

I think the 30s could be your best decade yet.

[Courtney]

Oh, that's that. As for that, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. But I guess I'm just a person who always believes that life just gets better and better.

[Renee]

That's it.

[Courtney]

Life just gets better and better. It looks good, I think. Just trusting that we go from glory to glory, man. Genuinely, we go from glory to glory. And no matter what comes my way, I don't know, I just have this unwavering belief that it's actually all going to work out for my good.

[Renee]

I was about to say, well, the anxiety can take a back seat a little bit because. But no, honestly, thank you so much for sharing that course. I think you're probably speaking to something that a lot of us all feel right like this. The coexistence of unwavering belief, but then also the deep set anxieties and fears that can go along with that. And I think you put that so perfectly insofar as you can run with the fear, but you can't let it win.

[Courtney]

Yeah. You can't let it roll.

[Renee]

You gotta.

[Courtney]

You can't. It is hard. It is really hard. But I think, I think that's when, like I was saying, you can't run ahead of yourself. You can't act like it's not there.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Because that's when you burn. Or that's when you experience those kind of like moments of cognitive dissonance or like you get to the apex of things and you realize that deep down you're actually really broken. But I think I've allowed myself to realize it's okay to address these things. And sometimes that takes you slowing down a little bit. And I think there's something so powerful as well that we see where even when we slow down, it kind of gives God the room to work. And then that's when real acceleration actually happens. As someone who's been in hustle mode before, sometimes you think the key to speed is your overworking, but actually the key to speed is grace.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And grace is such a divine thing. You've got to give God room to move. And I think sometimes I see, cuz like I said, like, we can pray against these things. And for some people, once you pray against anxiety or you pray for your anxiety. Anxiety to go, it goes. Yeah, right. And. But I do think there's a level of what I'm currently experiencing where I've come to the understanding of, okay, God, this is kind of, it's lingering.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Like, it's kind of staying around a little bit. And I think I'm understanding this is where you give grace room to move for you so that you're not kicking yourself into overdrive mode. There's, there's that element of, of trust that has to exist when you're feeling anxious. Because I'm showing up on stage, I'm showing up on videos, I'm showing up in, at events, I'm showing up in all these different spaces. And God, when I show up, I'm like, oh, I don't even know if I have anything to bring to this space. I don't know how. I'm like, like, for example, I went to Creator Fest today.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

We were invited by LinkedIn. And I was just like, God, I'm going there and I don't even have a strategy. And I'm like, that's not like me. Like, I'm a businessman. Why Don't I have a. And it was just the anxiety of like, yeah, I haven't been at one of these things for a while. Like I took that long break from creating and now you're getting reimmersed with your colleagues and your peers and your possible partners and all of these stuff and it's like, oh, the. This is a lot. Like, this is really, really a lot. But I think it's again, that element of this is the room where you let grace work. It's like, okay, I stepped into that space and before I realized it, the people who I needed to talk to found me and I was just like, okay, Grace is working. Let Grace work. Or like you pick up on certain things and then you realize, oh, okay, I can just genuinely be myself where I am right now. I don't need to fake anything and it will all work out for my good. So, yeah, just if anyone out there is experiencing some kind of. It's not even just imposter syndrome, I think genuine anxiety around, you know, you're called to something big. But right now you don't know. You can't really make out how it's going to happen if you're ready for it. And you know, in fact, actually you're not. And you don't know if you can actually show up to do the work necessary. So, okay, yeah, it doesn't mean that you can't become. It doesn't mean that God won't show up. It doesn't mean that it won't happen. It just means that when culture says speed up, God is saying slow down. And you don't have to be scared about the slowing down because that's when grace works.

[Renee]

And slow and steady wins the race.

[Courtney]

Slow and steady wins the race. And it's very anti cultural or countercultural right now because everyone is building, building, building and building. But I think there's an element to it which is build but build at the pace of grace.

[Renee]

That's so, that's really good. It really is making me think of the hare and the tortoise. Because with that speed, the re. The issue of speed wasn't necessarily the pace, but more so the hubris that comes with the pace. Right. It's the pride being in the fact that you're hustling and grinding and building. And sometimes for you to have your miraculous moments, you have to put your foot on the brake, not the gas.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

So chill. And I think again, that really does speak to what a lot of us have also been experiencing is that I call them Montage moments in life where it sometimes feels like, oh, things are not really. There's not. There's nothing.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Nothing to share. There's nothing big happening. There's no big celebrations. There's no. I'm just living in montage moments of my life where. Where it doesn't necessarily feel as though I'm going at the same pace as everyone else. But it's in those moments that, as you mentioned, grace works.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And it's also recognizing that sometimes these are the moments that you actually prayed for.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

There's so much peace and slowing down. Yeah. Like being able to. Of course, again, these things can coexist with fear and anxiety. But then also recognizing at some point I did pray to be here and. And I. One of the things I really enjoy doing is writing a letter to myself, like at the beginning of the year. And then I schedule send for December 31st. So 2025. Sorry, 2020 is awaiting a letter or 2027 is awaiting a letter from me. And I think one of the things I typically talk about, like one of the first things I often say to myself in my letters is, well done. I'm so proud of you. And not because you achieved xyz, but because you actually got through the year. And it's recognizing the ups, the downs, but also when the line also flatlines and you're just actually living, you're existing and being appreciative of those smaller moments of peace as they come in your life. Yes. It's quiet, but it's peaceful.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And peace is something. Think that is so difficult in today's society and within so many relationships and so many contexts. So being appreciative of even that.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And having the gratitude for that and trying to cultivate more peace in our lives because, boy, the world is so loud and so just, ah, everybody is just so highly strung.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And I think it's a beautiful thing to have of peace.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

And it's a beautiful thing to. I think it's also beautiful that you've really learned how to. Well, continue to learn how to articulate yourself. Like, it's very inspiring and I've definitely noticed it in the way that you speak and articulate yourself is very, very inspiring. But I think it also just speaks to the fact that you are somebody that is genuinely dedicated to the process and dedicated to answering the call that God has on your life. Because I think it's one thing to hear the call, but I. I think it's the courage that is required to answer the Call, I think. And the bravery and being able to accept that the seasons will not look like how you planned sometimes, or the work doesn't necessarily always, you know, look like how you might have wanted it to. I think what has particularly inspired me about your journey and your reflections and your life right now is just how much you've used, yielded to that and submitted to that.

[Courtney]

We try. We try. Which, you know what? I think it's just we're becoming. We're becoming who God wants us to be. And I think I resonate with what you were saying. Kind of on the flip side of the loud moments, like allowing yourself to slow down when everything is loud and go, go, go. And it's like, whoa, this thing wants to go at 100 mph power. But fast feels scary. Fast feels scary. And I think that's where the anxiety kind of is. Like, I think where most entrepreneurs or most people in their career right now will be like, no, lean into the speed. Like, go with the momentum. And yes, I'm getting it. It's the reason why I don't, like, go karting fair. I don't like that. Sorry.

[Renee]

Oh, sorry. Shout out to our friend Dorcas, who's probably listening to this podcast as we speak.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

He decided to take us to Thought

[Courtney]

park, and I told her straight up on the phone, I don't like, really. I don't like that high speed. I feel like I'm not in control. I feel like, yo. Like, I know for some people, that's the adrenaline that keeps it going. For me, that's anxiety inducing. Like, I don't know. I know. Go for. It's like, oh, no, this is the exciting part. No, this is the scariest.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

And I like when those moments happen, but I don't like when they get ahead of me. They feel like, whoa, I'm being dragged along now.

[Renee]

Yeah. Yeah, like that.

[Courtney]

I need my soul to catch up. I need my heart to catch up. I need my mind to catch up. And that doesn't mean I self sabotage. Well, sometimes it can lead to self sabotage. Yeah. But other times it's okay. Let's put some systems and guardrails on this thing.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So that I don't feel like I'm gonna fall off.

[Renee]

Yeah, exactly.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So that's. That's where I'm at now with the, like, let. I. I think that's actually the perfect analogy. My mind works in analogies, but it's like the. The grace element comes in when, you know, don't be worried. About this speed because someone else has already put the guardrails in place. You're not. Not going to crash. Yeah, you're not gonna crash. You're not. Like with the roller coaster thing, there are so many mechanics working behind the scenes. As much as it feels scary, you're not gonna drop. That's a good analogy. Yeah. So I think that's where I'm at now. It's like, it's okay. Quartz. Like, relax. It's gonna be a crazy ride. And then you don't know the ride. Exactly. You don't know the twins at the twists and the turns, but the mechanisms of grace are working behind the scenes. Crash.

[Renee]

Glory.

[Courtney]

Glory. That's where I'm at.

[Renee]

That's a word. Glory. Jeez, what an impartation.

[Courtney]

Please stop. Lord Jesus, Renee, stop it. But that's where I'm at.

[Renee]

Wow, that was such a powerful session. You know that when you go to.

[Courtney]

All right, guys, thank you so much for coming, for coming, for watching. It was a long one. Might even split this into two parts. But if you've been able to stick all the way up until. Up until this point. We love you. We rock with you bad. Let us know your thoughts on the polygamist, the trend of hiding your partner's face online, and how you're feeling about the second half of 2026. We love you so much. Thank you for rocking with us over the last four months of us returning. We love you deeply. Make sure you follow us everywhere. Ena Maffadon, dbw. My sisterhood search for us absolutely everywhere. Sign up to our mailing list on our website to my sisters.com for us to send you weekly love letters because we love you just that much. I will talk to you very soon, but as always, keep glowing and growing.

[Renee]

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[Courtney]

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[Renee]

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[Courtney]

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[Renee]

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