The Truth About The Music Industry: Reclaiming Your Power & Rewriting Your Story ft. Ray BLK

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Truth About The Music Industry: Reclaiming Your Power & Rewriting Your Story ft. Ray BLK"

To My Sisters Episode released on January 26, 2025, features an insightful and heartfelt conversation with the multifaceted artist Ray BLK. Hosted by Courtney Daniella Boateng and Renée Kapuku, the episode delves deep into Ray's journey within the music industry, her personal struggles, and her path to reclaiming her power and authenticity.

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1. Introduction to Ray BLK

The episode kicks off with Courtney and Renée warmly welcoming Ray BLK, highlighting her achievements as a singer, songwriter, and actress. They express admiration for her recent EP, Forest Fire, and Ray acknowledges her gratitude for being part of the show.

Notable Quote:

• Courtney (03:31): "We really want this to be a conversation a bit more about you."

2. Ray's Personal Journey and Realizations

Ray opens up about her identity beyond her artistic persona, describing herself as a "transparent, vulnerable person" whose creativity serves as an outlet for her emotions and observations of the world.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray BLK (03:50): "I see a lot of the world and feel it a lot. And so I like to be able to have my creative outlets to let that out."
• Ray BLK (05:02): "The pandemic made me really realize what mattered to me... it made me want to channel even more of my energy into my family and my friends and my community."

3. Navigating the Music Industry: From Independence to Record Labels

Ray recounts her transition from an independent artist to signing a record deal with her dream label, which ultimately turned into a nightmare. She shares how signing away her autonomy led to a loss of self and creative control.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray BLK (07:21): "I relinquished my power. And then after so many changes in my career... I felt like my identity was stripped."
• Ray BLK (09:58): "Record labels are all about making money. You are a product that needs to be sold. You're a commodity."

4. Dealing with Disappointment and Loss of Identity

The conversation explores Ray's feelings of disappointment when her dream turned sour. She describes becoming numb and detached, viewing herself merely as a product rather than an individual, which led to a significant internal struggle.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray BLK (12:43): "I was just getting on with it... even when I was crashing, I didn't even realize I was crashing."
• Renee (13:25): "It's the fear that we have, you know? A lack of control as to what's coming next."

5. Reclaiming Power and Embracing Independence

Ray discusses her journey back to independence, emphasizing the importance of defining success on her own terms and maintaining authenticity. She highlights the necessity of letting go of toxic environments and relationships that no longer serve her.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray BLK (13:55): "If I want to be happy, I have to make myself happy."
• Ray BLK (16:02): "It's like, it's authentic. It's raw."

6. Personal Relationships and Self-Love

Ray candidly shares her experience of entering an abusive relationship during a vulnerable period in her career. She underscores the critical lesson that self-love and a healthy mindset are essential before forming relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray BLK (21:25): "Before you go into a relationship, you have to love yourself."
• Ray BLK (23:28): "I turned back to God to get my validation from the Word, to get my validation from within."

7. Faith and Finding Peace

The episode delves into Ray's spiritual journey, where she initially questioned her faith during hardships but ultimately found peace and purpose through her relationship with God. She highlights how faith guided her through her darkest moments.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray BLK (16:37): "Do you know what I was... just like, why have you brought me here?"
• Ray BLK (18:51): "Now I'm like, okay, I understand."

8. Embracing Hope Over Fear

Courtney and Renee engage with Ray on the importance of maintaining hope rather than succumbing to fear. Ray shares wisdom from her mother about choosing to keep hopes high or low, advocating for a hopeful mindset even when outcomes are uncertain.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray BLK (34:38): "You either get your hopes up or you get your hopes down."
• Courtney (35:01): "Don't hope for them so much that they become an idol."

9. Appreciating Contrast and Growth

Ray reflects on how contrasting experiences—both good and bad—have shaped her appreciation for the present. She emphasizes the value of gratitude and intentionality in savoring moments of success and joy.

Notable Quotes:

• Ray BLK (43:02): "I didn't appreciate the good. I didn't appreciate the things that I had."
• Courtney (44:34): "Contrast brings clarity."

10. Final Advice and Wisdom

In her closing message, Ray encourages the sisterhood to trust their instincts and recognize their inherent worth. She advises that inner guidance is paramount for making informed decisions in all aspects of life.

Notable Quote:

• Ray BLK (53:34): "To my sisters, I want you to trust your gut. You are a much higher being than you know."

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Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity Over Autonomy: Ray's journey underscores the importance of staying true to oneself over chasing industry standards or external validations.

• Value of Self-Love: Before forming relationships, cultivating self-love ensures healthier and more fulfilling connections.

• Faith as a Foundation: Spirituality can provide strength and purpose during challenging times, guiding individuals toward peace and resilience.

• Hope vs. Fear: Maintaining a hopeful outlook empowers individuals to persevere and embrace opportunities, even amidst uncertainty.

• Gratitude and Reflection: Appreciating past experiences, both positive and negative, fosters personal growth and a deeper understanding of one's journey.

Conclusion: This episode of To My Sisters offers a profound exploration of the challenges and triumphs within the music industry, intertwined with personal growth and spiritual insights. Ray BLK's candid reflections provide valuable lessons on reclaiming one's power, the significance of self-love, and the enduring strength drawn from faith and hope.

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For those who wish to support Ray BLK and engage further with the sisterhood community, follow her on social media, stream her music, and participate in upcoming events as mentioned towards the end of the episode.

Transcript

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[Ray Black]

I needed someone and that's how I ended up in the wrong arms.

[Courtney]

I'm so scared you're gonna cheat on me that I'm gonna keep accusing you of cheating on me. And now I'm looking at you like, so do you want me to cheat or not?

[Renee]

It's really unfortunate that we give so much time and energy to negative things that have actually not happened.

[Ray Black]

Before you go into a relationship, you have to love yourself.

[Courtney]

Was it Keisha Cole who said I should have cheated?

[Ray Black]

You've got two choices. You either get your hopes up or you get your hopes down.

[Renee]

Perhaps you should be focusing on preparing for the hope and the blessing that you're looking. You're looking out for.

[Ray Black]

Do you want people to smile or laugh at all?

[Courtney]

Listen, this podcast is an emotional relic.

[Renee]

Star of the podcast, honestly, touching every corner.

[Courtney]

Yeah, you guys can cry today. There's another episode. We'll laugh next week. We're so preoccupied with that possibility of negative things happening that we end up being the negative thing that happens.

[Ray Black]

And I had to say goodbye to a lot of things and a lot of people, and it all happened in a condensed amount of time. Signed a record deal, which is like the dream, you know? And with, like, my dream record label, the dream was a nightmare.

[Courtney]

Hello and welcome to the team My Sisters podcast. I'm Courtney.

[Renee]

And I'm Renee.

[Ray Black]

And I'm Ray Black.

[Renee]

And we are your online sisters and hosts of the 2 My Sisters podcast.

[Courtney]

We are all about promoting the wellness, growth and development of a community of women all around the world.

[Renee]

And in today's episode, we are joined by the incredible singer, songwriter, actress.

[Courtney]

The trifecta, Honestly, Honestly. It's giving multifaceted Ray Black, ladies and gentlemen, commotion, commotion, commotion.

[Ray Black]

Commercial. You clap for yourself.

[Courtney]

Yeah, clap for yourself.

[Renee]

Clap for yourself.

[Ray Black]

We love to pat on that, Ray.

[Renee]

It's Ray Black, but we have been given the permission to say Ray, Ray, because we are. That. We have that proximity.

[Courtney]

But it's Ms. Black.

[Renee]

It's Ms. Black. Ray, what a pleasure to have you on the show. We are so, so, so happy to have you. And obviously we are in awe of all the incredible things that you've done. But we really want this to be a conversation a bit more about you. In keeping with our rolling theme of embracing our seasons, we're so keen to talk to you about how you've been embracing your season and coming into this new season where you've been in a ton of new projects, you've even dropped, most recently, an incredible EP of Forest Fire, which I must say is absolutely exceptional.

[Ray Black]

Thank you.

[Renee]

So great, great body of work. But let's get started with a little bit about Ray. Who is Ray behind the singer, the songwriter, the actress? Who is Ray behind all of these incredible feats that you've done? Talk to us about.

[Ray Black]

Oh, gosh, who am I?

[Renee]

Existential question.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ray Black]

Ask myself that. This. Do you know what? I'm just. I would say I am a. A transparent, vulnerable person. Vulnerable. Not in a negative way, but I'm someone who, I guess people say, wears.

[Courtney]

Their hearts on their sleeves.

[Ray Black]

And I feel like my way of doing that is through my music, is being able to be vulnerable in my music and my art, in my acting. Yeah. I'm someone who, I would say I see a lot of the world and feel it a lot. And so I like to be able to have my creative outlets to let that out in. I'm someone who's ambitious, but moreover. And I'm realizing more and more, because I've always been ambitious from being a young child, and I always thought I was somebody who would put career at the forefront of my life as the most important thing. And I've surprised myself in realising that family, friends, community, like that is the most important thing to me. Over. Like, I thought I was just in love with money, and I'm not. Are you Nigerian?

[Courtney]

No, I'm not arguing. Nigerian, indeed. It's in my blood. It's in my blood. But take us to that key. Was there a key, key moment that made you realize that. That actually family, community, relationships are more important than career, money and chasing those things. What made you come to that realization?

[Ray Black]

I think the same one we all had, which was the pandemic. The pandemic made me really realize what mattered to me, because I had spent most of my life just chasing my career, as we all do as young people. And don't get me wrong, I always still was someone who was, like, family oriented. And. And so I always made time for that, like, in the busyness at my busiest times, when I have, like, one day off in two weeks, that's the day I'm like, no, no, I'm going to be with my family or with my friends. But once all of the busyness was stripped away and I realized that, oh, my God, this career you've devoted your whole self to, it can just be gone like that, or that's not the most important thing in life, it made me want to channel even more of my energy into my family and my friends and my community. And also it made me not just be about creating this career, but having purpose behind the career that serves more than just myself. Yeah, that's what happened for me in the Pandemic.

[Renee]

I love that. And you even spoke about this whole idea of letting go. Right. And letting go not just of your career as a concept, but also in some ways quite practically. Right. So as we're speaking now, you're currently an independent lady. Talk to us a bit about that transition and walking away from situations or places, especially in your career, that may no longer serve you.

[Ray Black]

You know what? I would love to sound like I planned all of this. You know, when someone tells you their life story and you're like, everything makes it. They just did everything they needed to do. Get there. But sometimes things happen to you. Oh, and I feel like I wasn't the person who manufactured the transition. Like, it. It happened to me.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Renee]

Because.

[Ray Black]

So I. I started out as an independent artist, and at the time, I was so young and new to the industry, I didn't even really know what that meant. You know, I was just so happy to be here. I didn't realize what it meant to have the control over my sound, my look, my videos, my creativity. I didn't realize the privilege that I had. And I also didn't even realize all of the business aspects of what was going on because I had a great manager that was handling it all and advising me to do these things. And then I signed a record deal, which is like the dream, you know, for most artists it was anyway, and with, like, my dream record label. And the dream was a nightmare.

[Renee]

That's a line right there.

[Ray Black]

The dream was a nightmare because I didn't realize how much of my autonomy I would lose and that I had to answer to so many people in order to just get my art out there. And I would say I. Because I, like I said, was a very ambitious person. I'm kind of like, I roll with the punches. Whatever needs to get done gets done. Also, like, I've been raised to be, like, a good girl, so I respect authority. So I believed that these people in positions of power knew better than I did. And so I relinquished my power to be honest. And then after so many changes in my career and just not feeling happy, my feeling like my identity was stripped, but I was also part of the person who. The people who stripped it, you know, by following whatever they thought was best. Yeah, I feel like that moment of realizing it wasn't working and them saying it wasn't working, as much as it felt like something bad was happening to me, something good was happening to me. Because now on the other side, I'm able to, I feel like, own being a businesswoman in the music industry in a way that I couldn't before. And now I'm able to look back and be like, oh, my God, I didn't appreciate those things as an independent artist. Now I'm able to appreciate being able to choose my date, that my music is coming out. And the thing is, what people don't realize is record labels are all about making money. And so you are a product that needs to be sold. You're a commodity. And so you kind of have to allow a death of self to become whatever you need to be to be successful.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Ray Black]

And. And I didn't. I didn't realize that. No. Like, you have the power to just be you and to make that choice. You don't have to give up yourself to be this thing to be successful. And you can. You can define what success means to you. Yeah, I feel like I've said so much.

[Courtney]

No, that's so good and so deep. And I think there. There are a lot of sisters and women who can relate to this idea of getting what you've always dreamt of, reaching that goal, reaching that milestone that you've been working hard towards, and just feels like a blessing. And then, like you said, you enter into the dream, and it turns out the dream is actually a nightmare. Right. Talk us through how you dealt with that disappointment, would you say? Disappointment kind of can describe how you felt when you realize that this thing that you've been dreaming of actually isn't all that it was cracked up to be. How did you deal with realizing that, oh, this isn't all bed and roses and like, behind the scenes of it all, behind the scenes of, like, the business moves and dealing with all these new people, how did you feel as a person?

[Ray Black]

You know what? As Black women, we have this amazing power of being able to just get on with it and normalize the madness. And so when I was in it, I feel like I was just getting on with it. I was just kind of, like, numbing myself to what was going on, and. And also just feeling like you just have to, you know, I mean, you know, when you feel like there's no other choice but to just push. Push through this. And also I felt like I was just becoming an adult. Like, the music industry made me. Turned me into an adult very, very quickly. When people are telling you that you're defined by numbers, that you're only meaningful if you hit certain targets. And so I think I started viewing myself as that. Like, I genuinely lost myself, sight of myself, because I started viewing myself as a commodity. Like, I'm no longer Rita. I'm Ray Black. Like, I'm thinking, what does Ray Black need to do? How does Ray Black. Maybe Ray Black needs to change her hair, maybe? Do you know what I mean? Forgetting that that's me. So I think I became quite numb and detached and saw myself as this product and was just getting on with it and getting on with whatever needed to be done. And. And I feel like even when I was crashing, I didn't even realize I was crashing.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Ray Black]

It was just like, oh, you're having a bad day. We just go on again tomorrow, you know? So, yeah, in. In that period, I was just getting on with it, as we always do.

[Courtney]

Yeah, that's deep.

[Renee]

No, that is deep. It's tough. I think a lot of women can resonate with that. Right. This whole idea of the world continues, even though I'm going through this particular season of disappointment or sadness. And especially when you've been in an industry or you're navigating spaces where you're often defined by how much you can give or what you can produce, it can be so difficult to almost reclaim your identity and detaching it from this idea that your value is so attached to what you can produce and what you can give.

[Courtney]

Absolutely.

[Renee]

So I would love to know, Ray, what was that process like for you of reclaiming your identity, reclaiming your power, and being able to now channel that into the things that you do produce.

[Courtney]

The turning point.

[Ray Black]

Gosh. What was the turning point? I feel like there were several turning points. I think I realized that if I want to be Happy. I have to make myself happy.

[Renee]

That's a grown woman lesson in this life.

[Courtney]

In this life, if you want to be happy, you have to to make yourself happy.

[Ray Black]

Yeah. Like, it really started with the music because I listened to the album I had put out and, like, shout. Everyone that loves the album is still enjoy it.

[Courtney]

She says, still enjoy it.

[Renee]

Hello.

[Ray Black]

But I listened to it and I was like, this isn't my story. Like, this isn't me. This is some fabricated person that doesn't actually exist. Like, I made anthems that, like, felt really fierce and strong and. And that is what I want to do with my music is, like, empower people, Empower women in particular. But I was like, that's not real. That's so fake. Like, that's not how I felt. Even when I was making this album, I wasn't even feeling empowered and happy. And I was, like, pretending and, you know, just trying to feed what I thought other people wanted to hear. And that made me sad. Like, when you make an album, it's quite special, I think, to be an artist, to get the opportunity to, like, make tangible things. You can look back on years to come that remind you of where you were at that time. And I just thought, I don't want to listen back to my music and be like, what was that? Who is. Who is this? Like, and so it started with that being like, nah, I want to listen back to my music years to come and be like, I still stand by that. And I wanted it to not just be about what it will do for other people or what it will do in terms of success. Like, I want this music to do something for me, which is how it started. I feel like I just did a 180 and went back to the star and went back to that girl who used to write songs in her bedroom. Like, live, like, with tears in my eyes. Like, so dramatic. Hey, he's breaking my heart.

[Courtney]

That's the best ballad. That's how the best songs are.

[Renee]

Them hot break songs. That's how they start.

[Ray Black]

It's like, it's authentic.

[Courtney]

It's real.

[Ray Black]

It's like, it's raw. And so I just went back to that, using my music as an outlet and wanting to make something that is for me and I'll listen back to and be proud of.

[Courtney]

That's so beautiful. In. In that time, then what did your faith life look like and your relationship with God as well? Because I can imagine, like, you pray for moments like these, successes like these, and then you're left with the reality of the fact that you're not happy. So how do you then process that with God? What does. What do prayers look like in that kind of season?

[Renee]

Oh, gosh.

[Ray Black]

Do you know what I was. My communication with God during that season was just so angry all the time. I was just like, why have you brought me here? Why have you brought me here to do this to me? Like, I didn't understand. And I saw, like, a reel the other day that was like, when you look at, like, God's plan for your life and you're like, why? Why? You get to. You're like, oh, that's why. Okay, So I felt like I was in a season of why? Why is this happening to me right now? You brought me to this place I always wanted to be, and this was supposed to be a dream. This was supposed to go a certain way. And now I would say on the other side, I can see the person it's turned me into. The things that I had to learn, like the importance of staying true to yourself, the importance of having purpose. Because I could have, you know, been at that record label and done all of the things they wanted me to do and made the pop songs and just kept going for that, like, Beyonce fame, whatever it is, right? That all artists want. And maybe I would have gotten it, but then I might look back and be like, what is this all for? This has no purpose whatsoever. And it's honestly stuff like that that I think drives artists to drugs and drinking, because you realize this means nothing, guys, like. And so I think I needed to go through that to find my purpose, to remember my purpose. And just everything I've. I've learned through it. I've learned so much through that season that's made me put on my, like, big girl pants. And so the. Why, God? Why, God? Now I'm like, okay, I understand. And now moving forward when I'm. Because in life, you're still going to go through trials and tribulations. Now in. In those seasons, I can be like, I understand you're doing something, God, just give me the patience, give me the peace, Give me the tools that I need to go through this. I'm like, why is this? Make it stop. You know? Yeah.

[Courtney]

So good.

[Renee]

No, that is so, so beautiful.

[Podcast Announcer]

Hey, sis, I hope you're enjoying this conversation. And if you are, are, why not come and experience one live? We have a few in person podcast events happening in the month of March. And why not come along so that we can chat with you in person? We are going to be in Cape Town, South Africa on the 8th of March 2025 with a special guest, Ms. Mpumi Ledwaba from Wisdom and Wellness Podcast. So grab a ticket now. The information is in the description below and in the show notes and we are also hosting an intimate immersive podcast experience in London on the 15th of March in White City. So if you are around, if you'd love to get dressed up and come and talk with your girls over some good, good food, then get your ticket now. There are only a few of those ones, so make sure you head to the description. Click on the link either to Cape Town or to London or to both if you if you gotta like that. And I want to see you on the 8th of March in Cape Town or the 15th of March in London. Let's get back to this conversation.

[Renee]

And I feel that that mindset is so reflected in your EP Aforest Fire, which is such a beautiful body of work of really grappling with, as you mentioned, as a transparent person, grappling with the difficulties and the challenges that life can bring us. Right? Like what does it really mean to feel those emotions in them and then move forward? So I personally guys, you should go and stream very easy. Not just the old one, but the new stuff. Go and stream it all up if you. In fact, it's even a tale that you might want to stream from beginning to end. And one of my favorites on your EP is of course, Courage. I absolutely adore the song and I think it tells a really difficult but important story of again, letting go of the things that no longer serve you. And whilst you are going through some of these situations with your career with this record label also going through relational difficulties as well with yourself going through a particularly abusive time with an ex boyfriend. So talk to us a little bit about that. The difficulties and the challenges, the why, God, as it pertains to your career and the things that you're going through as singer songwriter Ray, but then also personally Ray is having some real difficult relational challenges and having to navigate that almost concurrently or side by side.

[Ray Black]

You know, I realized on the other side about everything I was going through in my career and then being in an abusive relationship is the two things went together, they were aligned because. Because I felt so frustrated, deflated, purposeless, depressed. All of that about my. About things that were happening with my career. I desperately needed validation and something to hold me together. I needed someone and that's how I ended up in the wrong arms. And I think what I've learned from that is something that People say is like, all of these trigger things, these buzz things. People say that, like, before you go into a relationship, you have to love yourself. Like, a lot of the times we hear that in the context of being able to love others, but actually taking the time to make sure you're in a healthy place and loving yourself will actually safeguard you. That's what I learned. Like, if I. If I was in a healthier mind state when I was looking for love or finding love, I would have picked better. But because I was in an unhealthy place of just feeling lost and wanting to be found is how I ended up in a toxic situation like that. And so in retrospect, I can be like, oh, it's because, like, I needed someone to pet me and just to be there or to validate me when I was feeling invalidated by my record label. And. And people who are, like, toxic and abusive and manipulated, they can kind of smell that, like, oh, you need someone, right?

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Ray Black]

That little blood is like, yeah.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Ray Black]

So, like, I realized how important it is to be in a place of loving yourself and in a healthy mind state, because then you can have the clarity to make better decisions. But when I. When I was in it, I was. I just felt like everything was crashing and burning because, you know, you feel like, I'm Igbo, and Igbo people have a saying that. Oh, my gosh, we have a saying that's like, you can't lose everything. You at least have one thing, right? So it's like. And they say in the context of, like, oh, as a woman, if you're not married, you'll have a good job. If you're not this. You have a child or whatever, or just as a human being. And so I felt like, no, why am I losing everything? Like, why is it not even that.

[Renee]

One thing you can hold on to?

[Ray Black]

Not even the one thing? And it kind of just forced me to. When everything was, like, crashing and burning, it actually just forced me to turn back to God. Yeah, it forced me to turn back to God to get my validation from the Word, to get my validation from within, to be able to, like, look at yourself and tell yourself you're amazing and believe that before without needing someone else to tell you you're amazing, you know? So I feel like that's what that period did to me. But at the time, I was just kind of clinging on, having that kind of scarcity mindset, you know, Like, I must have this, because what if I don't have this again? Or, you know, I mean, even though it's terrible.

[Courtney]

Yeah, I'll take it.

[Ray Black]

I'll take, you know.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Ray Black]

So I would say I had to go through that to learn all of that I've learned. Yeah. Yeah.

[Courtney]

That's so profound. I think it will really help somebody who's going through a season where they're kind of like, again, the God, why, Like, what is actually going on. But also learning that in everything, even the suffering, even the painful moments, there is something we learn about ourselves that prepares us to enjoy better. And I think what you've kind of touched on is in those key moments, you learnt what you did not deserve. Right. And I think sometimes that's a really strong place to start from. As much as we don't know where we're going, we know where we don't want to be. And that is sometimes a really good lesson to have learned. And I think in that, in that time of being in a situation where I don't want to be here, I don't want to do this, what does letting go look like? And what is the reality of being like, okay, this relationship has to go. These. These people in my management, my record label, y'all gotta go. Take yourself out of here. What does saying goodbye and closing a door look like? What did that look like?

[Ray Black]

Do you want people to smile or laugh at all?

[Courtney]

Listen, this podcast is an emotional relic. Start of a podcast.

[Renee]

Honestly, every corner.

[Courtney]

Yeah, you guys can cry today. There's another episode.

[Ray Black]

We'll laugh next.

[Courtney]

Sometimes seriousness, but, you know, you're also a funny person.

[Renee]

Just in the midst.

[Ray Black]

Oh, gosh. Letting go is not easy. It's not for the faint hearted. And you see, like, we all do that prayer, right? God, if it's not for me, remove it. And when it's removed. Hey, scatter.

[Renee]

Cutter.

[Ray Black]

Cutter.

[Renee]

I didn't expect that.

[Courtney]

And I didn't expect it to happen so quickly.

[Ray Black]

Tomorrow. You did it tomorrow.

[Renee]

And he acts.

[Ray Black]

Special delivery by 1pm why do those ones come quickly? I'm like, the good things bring them fast too. Look.

[Courtney]

Because we give him a window. It's a window we rarely give him. So as soon as he sees that little opening, he's like busting through.

[Renee]

More time he's been waiting for us to make.

[Courtney]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ray Black]

It's so. But when it arrives, it's like a shock to the system. And I had to say goodbye to a lot of things and a lot of people. And it all happened in a condensed amount of time. Like, I felt so out of control. But then I started taking Control. I started doing the snipping, like, okay, if we're getting rid of some, let's get rid of all of the things and let's just start anew. And I did things that I didn't even know I was, like, bold enough to do, like parting ways with friends and. And not just allowing it to happen. Because we always. We want the best case scenario, which is let it just happen peacefully.

[Courtney]

Right.

[Ray Black]

Let it just happen naturally. Where we'll just lose touch.

[Courtney]

Yeah, we'll drift.

[Renee]

We'll just drift.

[Ray Black]

You know those ones where you see each other? Oh, we just lost contact. When you kind of know. No, it was like, oh, I have to do this head on. I have to have the difficult conversations. It has to be a choice that I make. And saying goodbye or letting go. I'm not gonna lie. It's not easy. I don't have a nice thing to say about it. It's not gonna be great. You're not gonna smile, you're gonna feel lonely, and you're gonna. It creates fear because you're like, wait, once I let go of this, I have to accept that I don't know what's next.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Ray Black]

Or if you let go of, like, a close friend, I have to accept that I don't know if I'll find such a friend again. I don't know. I don't know what the future looks like. I would say the only positive thing I can say about that, about letting go, is that as much as it created a lot of pain and unrest in me.

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[Courtney]

Hey, mom, you seen my toothbrush? Yeah, I'm almost done with it.

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[Courtney]

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[Ray Black]

It also created a bit of excitement for the unknown. So I had the fear of the unknown, but I also had the excitement of the unknown. Because one thing I like to do is when I get really worried, stressed, overwhelmed, I remind myself of things that have already happened. So I remind myself of previous trauma or previous things I had to let go of or previous moments that I was in the unknown and what happened next, that was unexpected.

[Renee]

I love that.

[Ray Black]

And I'm like, you know what? Like, when you went to Union, when you left for to go to Paris, because I lived in Paris at one point, I'm like, and you didn't know what was going to happen. You had no, look what happened. Look at where that took you. Like when you said, okay, I'm going to leave your job and focus on music, and you didn't know what was going to happen. Look where you are now. So I. I remind myself of the fact that things have gotten better already in the past, so it will get better again.

[Courtney]

That is so good. And it brings to mind, like, there's a scripture that talks about how you should lay memorials, right? When new things happen, lay a memorial. When you take a step from one place into a new place in that point of transition, lay a memorial so you remember where you came from and that you were delivered from where you're coming from and were safely entered into the new place, Right? It's like, to do with Joshua and the children of Israel when they're going from the wilderness into the promised land. And I think it's important because there's this clear instruction to never forget. Because as human beings, we have a tendency to forget that we've been through hard things before and we got through them. And so when we face a new hard thing, we're like, oh, there's no way.

[Ray Black]

It's so impossible.

[Courtney]

Literally. And I think that's what you've highlighted so beautifully. That's why things like journaling are so important, because you could literally go back to a tangible memory of something.

[Ray Black]

Because I journal, and I had never actually looked back at my journal. And one day I decided to just look back. First of all, I was like, damn, you're dramatic.

[Courtney]

Every day you're feeling so much drop.

[Ray Black]

Is the end come God, calm God.

[Renee]

It's actually so.

[Courtney]

Oh, no.

[Renee]

Why God to come, please.

[Courtney]

Why God to come now?

[Ray Black]

Like, I look back, so dramatic. But I was like, I can't believe I thought I was gonna die. Why did I think I was gonna die?

[Courtney]

And that's the testimony right there.

[Ray Black]

Literally, you look back and you're like, it wasn't that deep. Or, in fact, it was that deep. But I'm out on the other side. Like that feeling of being able to look back at a time that was that you thought calamity, it was the end. And then look at where you are now and be like, oh, my God, I'm actually free. Like, that weight that I felt is gone and I didn't think it would be. And it inspired me to keep going and just remind myself, like, you absolutely will make it through. You absolutely will.

[Courtney]

That's so beautiful.

[Renee]

I think that's such a liberating message, especially for a lot of the women that listen to this podcast. And that you will actually make it to the other side. I think you highlighted there's something so important, which is the fear of the unknown, right? It's the fear that we have, you know, a lack of control as to what's coming next, but also this assumption that the worst case possible scenario will happen. And this is something we've spoken about on this podcast before as well as just privately. It's the fact that we often allow our fear to become idols rather than placing our faith in the hope that something good will actually happen to us. And I actually wanted to ask both of you, what does it look like to live a life where you're more hopeful rather than fearful?

[Courtney]

That's so good. Now, please.

[Ray Black]

Do you know what? I'm gonna be so real. Sometimes living a life of hope makes you feel delusional. Like, but shout out, my mom. My mom, she always says this thing to me when I have, like, something in the works or even just something I'm praying about or hopeful about. My mum, she's like an extreme positive person.

[Renee]

Like, that's beautiful.

[Ray Black]

Extremely positive. So hopeful. And my mom always says to me when I'm like, ah, my mom. My mom always says to me when I'm like, oh, you know, I don't know. Anyways, let's not. My mom would go, listen, you've got two choices. You either get your hopes up, up or you get your hopes down. Which one is it going to be between the two?

[Renee]

Isn't it between the two?

[Ray Black]

You've only got two choices. Either get your hopes up or get your hope down. Which one do you want to be? You want to be excited or sad and thinking it might not happen? So I'm like, okay, okay, let me be hopeful. But sometimes you do feel a bit delusional because there's not nothing tangible to prove, right, that you're going to get there. But there's like, I don't know. I hold on to the thrill of, like, what could be? And I also remind myself again of, like, the crazy things that have happened.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Ray Black]

So when I tell myself, girl, you are so crazy, you are so crazy, I'm like, crazy things have happened. Crazy things have happened, have come to fruition. So why get my hope down?

[Courtney]

Come on, love. That I love. And it again comes back to that memorial thing. Right. It's like, you know what crazier things have happened. We were in dire situations before, and we got through that. This is a small thing, even, and it bolsters up your confidence. But I think, to even answer your question, I think for me, it's addressing, what am I afraid of if this thing doesn't happen.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Right. Like, for a lot of us, we attach so much to the things that we want. Like, it's more than just, oh, I want that thing because it's nice. I want that relationship because it's nicer. I want that job promotion or that record deal, whatever, because it's nice. It's actually because if I don't get it, I'll think I'm a failure or I feel disappointed, or I feel like I can never make it in anything else, or I feel like another man will never come. Like, it's actually attached to a fear, and a lot of our folks are attached to fear. It's not even about faith and fear, like, fighting each other. It's the fact that we've attached the two together. Right. So it's actually about severing my fears from the thing I'm hoping for. So, okay, if I do not get the job, the man, the whatever, life is actually going to be okay. Life is going to be all right because I can find worth somewhere else. I can find happiness in other things, things that I even presently have. I. If I don't get this thing, I won't be disappointed. Right. And as much as there may be a slight grief there or. Oh, that would have been nice. I haven't attached so much of who. Who I am.

[Renee]

Yes.

[Courtney]

To that hope that if it does not come, I feel like I would lose who I am. And I think that's a core thing that all of us need to realize, like, for the things that we're hoping for. Don't make them. Don't hope for them so much that they become an idol. Don't hope and long for them so much that you can't even see life outside of that thing. This is a part of what you want. It's a part of your future, but it's not the whole thing. And with what remains, with what you may presently have or whatever you step into, God can actually make that thing so beautiful. And so it's okay to not have it, but also holding onto the fact that if it does happen, yes, we celebrate. But also, it doesn't make me the same way. It can't break me. It doesn't make me. Because you know how some people get their dreams and they start acting mad different. And it's like, I understand different seasons require different behavior. However, at the core of you remember who you are. And so I think when we protect our. Our essence, when we protect our identity, when we protect where our values is and where our foundations are, things happening and things not happening don't shatter us as much. That's what I think. But how about you?

[Renee]

Oh, child. Well, you came in all guns blazing, trying to pick up the pieces of that slight murder that happened. No, that was. That was genuinely beautiful.

[Courtney]

And I murdered.

[Renee]

Petite murder. Double homicide. No, I really adore that. I love this idea, or rather the unpacking of the idea that we often find so much of our identity in our hopes and fears. And personally, for me, I think it's really unfortunate that we give so much time and energy to negative things that have actually not happened yet. And within, like my community, my family, we have more of a tendency to worry about things, right, like this could happen. So let's prepare ourselves for. For the worst, this thing that has not happened yet. And it's funny how we spend so much time, again on the negative rather than the positive, right? Thinking upon the lovely things that could happen, thinking upon the lovely things that have happened in the past as well. And it really reminds me of something that you said in one of our past conversations, I think, at the live show actually, whereby the importance of remembering that you will have a summer season again, even if you are in a winter season season. And not just that, but also making sure that you are prepared for whatever it is that you are hoping for. Imagine you have an underlying hope that, you know, you'll get the relationship, that you'll get the car, that you'll get whatever it is, but yet you're worrying that you won't get it. That means you're spending less time preparing for the blessing that you are waiting for and more time entertaining the voice of the enemy in your head. Which means that when you do get your blessing, not only will you not be able to actually like hold on to it, you actually won't be able to sustain it either. So rather than focusing on on the fear and allowing that to consume you. Perhaps you should be focusing on preparing for the hope and the blessing that you're looking. You're looking out for using your time effectively and using that waiting period effectively too. I think another thing for me is the waiting period as well can be quite hard. It's really hard to wait for good things to happen. It is tough, especially when bad things are happening presently and all you can see in the mirror is, oh my goodness, like everything is burning. Everything is literally burning around me. It's so difficult to see that there's going to be an oasis that will be replanted here when all I can see is smoke and fumes of, you know, a forest fire that's currently happening. I think it is really important again to have vision when you are in the midst of these really dark and tough and fiery times, to understand that sometimes for something to be built back up better, first things have to be burnt down. And it's really important for us to, in the burning of the thing or the burning around us, to actually embrace that season a little bit so that you can then be prepared for the next season. So really it is a perspective shift. It's a mindset reframe. It is trying to see the good in the negative. It is literally a reorienting of a worldview that a lot of us often have. Especially when I think about like our community conversations or the things that we're exposed to like in social media. Again, we spend so much time on the negative stuff. There's so much energy that we put towards entertaining the things that are bad to us that you know what, sometimes you have to be countercultural even in the way that you think about these things, even in the way that you look towards and hope for these things so that you can be better prepared and equipped when the good things do happen. We are woefully under equipped for good things, but we are so, so prepared for bad things. It's ridiculous.

[Courtney]

We train our mind in it and it's what you were saying, actually, I think it leads to self sabotage. Right. Like we're so preoccupied with that possibility of negative things happening that we end up being the negative thing that happens.

[Ray Black]

We actually become a problem, not to be the enemy.

[Courtney]

We actually become a problem. Yeah. Like think about how many relationships are scattered because one of the parties is like, I'm so scared you're going to cheat on me that I'm going to keep accusing you of cheating on me. And now I'm looking at you like so do you want me to cheat or not?

[Ray Black]

Sorry. Can I record?

[Courtney]

Was it Keisha Cole who said I should have cheated? I shoulda. I should've done it.

[Ray Black]

No, it's so true. I wanted to add something to what you said as well.

[Renee]

One thing.

[Ray Black]

Another thing I realized in going through the fire now on the other side is, like, you actually, you have to have the bad to appreciate the good. Because prior to experiencing all I have right. Honestly now, in retrospect, I can say I didn't appreciate the good. I didn't appreciate the things that I had. I didn't appreciate the things that I wanted.

[Courtney]

For real.

[Ray Black]

For real. You know what I mean? But it's not until you go through a bad season or, like, you know, someone's going through, like, bad. Something as small as having a flu. Like, I can't believe I didn't enjoy breathing.

[Courtney]

Huh.

[Ray Black]

I really took breathing without needing anything for granted. I took not having any pain, not needing paracetamol for granted. Oh, my God. Like, I value this body now.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Ray Black]

That I'm sick. Yeah. You know, I mean, the same way, I think, like, even in relationships, I think, like, you know, everybody wants to find that right person, blah, blah, blah. But how will you actually treat that thing when you have it? Will you safeguard it? Will you actually safeguard it and protect it and nurture it? Because it just kind of came easy. Sometimes you actually have to go through madness. In fact, all the time, I think you have to go through madness to appreciate what you're given. Otherwise, you miss handle it. Like, now being an independent artist again, this artist again. There's so much I can appreciate that for a long season, I really didn't, because I thought it was a given, or I just didn't take the time to, like, nurture it properly. To be like, this is a. This is your business. You can't just leave this to the hands of people that you think even if they do know better, it's your business, your responsibility. And I needed to go through everything I did to be able to see that and value all of these things. So the bad, unfortunately, it's actually necessary that part.

[Courtney]

You know what? It's the beauty of contrast. I remember, like, a couple months ago hearing someone say, contrast brings clarity. And you can see things so clearly for what they are once you contrast it to something else.

[Ray Black]

Right.

[Courtney]

And I love that you touched on that, because a lot of us aren't grateful enough. We don't safeguard things enough because we're so quick to forget. It's like what you were saying about having the flu, and it's like, oh, my gosh. Do you remember when you could breathe through your nose? You know, that's actually crazy. But then when you get both of your nostrils back, maybe for 20 seconds, but then you're not going through the rest of your life thinking, wow.

[Renee]

No.

[Ray Black]

But let me tell you. But when you really go through something, you will.

[Renee]

Yeah, exactly.

[Courtney]

And it's being. It's being intentional about keeping that wonder that you have and that awe you have about the beauty of something as well. Because we can be so quick to forget when it's like, nah. Do you remember when you couldn't breathe through that? You need to remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ray Black]

I really do. Because, like, we were just talking briefly earlier about me doing this new series. So, like, tell us about that.

[Courtney]

Come on.

[Renee]

Segue.

[Ray Black]

So I star in a new series called the Agency, which is a CIA aspy drama starring.

[Courtney]

That's a bit of me.

[Ray Black]

Listen, it's a bit of me. Honestly, I love anything. Police drama. My bag.

[Renee]

This is a household of police dramas. I can tell you that.

[Ray Black]

That's my bag. And to be honest, and it was a dream role for me. Like, when people would ask me, once I started getting into acting visibly anyways, people would ask me, what's your dream role? And I was like, I want to be a spy. I want to be a spy. Because that's the sort of stuff I love to watch. And it's like an incredible cast starring Jeffrey Wright, Jodie Turner Smith, Michael Fassbender and Richard Gere, who is like, my mom's dream. My mom's dream. After watching Pretty Women on DVD so many times. And it's really about the lives of spies and what they go through, which we don't really get to see much of. We get to see, like, the jobs that they do. But the actual life of a spy being under so much scrutiny is really intriguing. I say, I think people will be really intrigued by it, to see what these people go through behind the scenes. And I play a role called the Dozer. She's a surveillance officer, so she watches Michael Fassbender's character as he's returned from a mission. And she is suspicious of what he's up to, which is the nature of being a spy is you're suspicious of everything and everyone. And it's just been such an incredible experience filming this. Something of this, like, magnitude for me, at this point in my acting career as well, working with people I literally look up to. Like, for me, Michael Fassbender is someone who. His style of acting, incredible. I love, like, study how he's able to put everything in, just his eyes and nothing more. And so, so true.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Oh, wow.

[Ray Black]

Yeah. Which is like, such a skill to not move your body and for me to know exactly what you're thinking just through your eyes. And it's just the act of being. But anyways, I've been so inspired by him. And being a part of this is something I'm really able to appreciate because I went through a lockdown where we weren't working. You know what I mean? I wasn't working. I wasn't able to travel. I wasn't able to be around these people. And then even we had, like, a writer's strike, which happened, which put a lot of the TV and film industry completely on hold. And at that point, I was just. I had just, you know, had a new show out called Champion and excited about, you know, what was to come, and everything was just silent. So now being able to appreciate and walk into these places and be like, I'm here. This is mad. Just appreciating the small things down to.

[Courtney]

Just, like, the set.

[Ray Black]

Like, someone built this. And to be honest, like, being in Champion, I guess it was new to me, and I was just blessed with this opportunity to be here and didn't experience the lack of being the writing strike. And so I wasn't able to really appreciate it as much as I do now, I would say, where now I'm like. I notice every little thing, like, wow, someone took their time to come up with this set. Wow, there's so many people here. Just appreciating the people that I'm meeting and what they do, all of their roles and how it comes together. Like, that would not have happened if I didn't go through the lack of. Do you know what I mean? So I'm really grateful for that season. Giving me appreciation and taking the time to smell the flowers. Yeah, I love that.

[Courtney]

Taking the time to smell the flowers. I think you touched on something earlier about, like, being a black woman. And when you're going through something which you don't like, we just persevere through. We endure through. We just press on and we make the most out of a bad situation. This time, however, it's lovely to hear that you're entering into a season and you're in a season where actually I'm.

[Ray Black]

Really happy, you know?

[Courtney]

And so how do you go about embracing all the joy of it all and allowing yourself to feel that, like, Nah, it's nice to be in something which I like.

[Ray Black]

Yeah. I take stock more these days in a way I didn't used to because, like you said, we just kind of crack on. And also, like, if you're someone who's ambitious, your goals are always bigger than where you are now. So you don't actually take the time to congratulate yourself and tell yourself, well done, because you know you can do better and you want to do better. Oh, the bane of my existence.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Ray Black]

But I'm really learning to tell myself, well done, and just take stock of what's happening right now and what I have done and what God has done in my life to bring me here. Right. Right now, you know, because I don't want to. I've done. I've been blessed enough to have done a lot in my career so far, to have, like, eight years worth of stuff to look back on now and be like, oh, remember when we did. Remember when we were with Elton John? Remember when Elton John interviewed you for his radio show? Remember when you sang in the boxing ring for. For the massive fight that Anthony Joshua had? Like, and like, the world was watching. Like, think about all of these opportunities. At the time, I was just going through the motions, feeling anxiety, wanting more, wanting to do and be better. And I hate that. I look back at those moments, like, why didn't we clap? Why didn't. Why didn't we enjoy that more? Why is such a good point. Like, it's. That is deep, it's upsetting when you look back and you're like, damn, that was such a good moment. Why didn't I take that in? And so now I try and take in, like, all of the moments where even just sitting here like that, people underrate the fact that someone wants to talk to you, someone wants to hear your thoughts, like, someone wants to hear your journey. My journey is meaningful enough for you to want to sit down with me today. And someone will want to watch that. Like, taking stock of that. That, like, this means something. Something you've done means something to people, or just that you've done the work to. To get you here, like, getting this new role. I had to clap for myself and be like, you did that. Like, you did the auditions, you went to the acting classes. People may see the outside and be like, well, that had been quick, but they don't know you were 13, going to acting auditions and waking up your mum from her night shift.

[Renee]

They don't get it. They don't know the story and the look.

[Courtney]

They'll give you as well when you wake them.

[Ray Black]

So. But, you know, so you have to be the one to tell yourself, I did that. Remember, we did. We're here. We did this, you know.

[Renee]

That's so beautiful.

[Courtney]

That is wonderful stuff.

[Renee]

I mean, on behalf of the sisterhood we celebrate.

[Ray Black]

Well done.

[Renee]

Well done. Genuinely well done.

[Courtney]

You're just getting started. This really is just the beginning of all that you get to do. And it's so lovely watching someone who is so multifaceted as well, see what all their talents can become.

[Renee]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

So, yeah. Well done to you.

[Ray Black]

Thank you.

[Courtney]

That is wonderful.

[Renee]

That's really encouraging, especially to a lot of sisters, Sisterhood that are often multifaceted. They have so many things that they want to do, and they're not really sure, like what to do, when to do it, all that kind of stuff. And just the power of moments and enjoying the moments when you have the moment for that particular thing that you're focused on. Yeah.

[Courtney]

So beautiful. Well, in true TMS fashion, we always get our guests to leave a little nugget of wisdom for the ladies who are watching. A little letter to the sisterhood, if you wish. And you basically just have to start with two my sisters. Okay.

[Ray Black]

Oh, what do I want to say to them? Okay. To my sisters, I want you to trust your gut. You are a much higher being than you know. You yourself are a small God, and the God within you speaks to you, tells you what you need to know, tells you what you need to do. Trust that gut that is your higher self. That is God speaking to you. Whether it's on your career, decisions, decisions about friendships, about relationships, about what to do next. Whatever that thing within you is calling you to do, do not doubt it. That is the first mistake you will make. Is doubting that gut.

[Courtney]

Beautiful.

[Renee]

Beautiful. A tidbit. Well, also, in true TMS fashion, we love to leave our guests with a little prayer, a little covering as they.

[Courtney]

Head on their way.

[Renee]

Okay, so, bestie, would you like to take the floor for more than happy.

[Courtney]

To let us bow our heads. Father, thank you so, so much for your daughter Rita. Thank you, Father. That you know her for exactly who she is behind the reputation or even the Persona. You knew her before you knitted her in her mother's womb, and you have a good plan for her, a plan that is of good and not of evil, for hope of good future. And we just pray, oh, God, that you will be with her in every room she steps into, every role that she takes, on every track that she makes. We just Pray, Lord, that you would be in that booth, in that room, wherever she may be, be there with her. May your spirit go with her, empower her, and give her creativity like she's never known before. We just pray, Lord, that you would continue to increase your peace upon her, that in every season she will find the joy in whatever she is doing. And we just pray that you would surround her with people who will uplift her and not tear her down. That, father, you would bring to her true godly friends and counsel people who will love her like she's never been loved before. And, Lord, we just pray that as she steps into these rooms, may she continue to remember that you are the God who took her from where she was to where she is and that you'll continue to take her to even more beautiful places.

[Renee]

Places.

[Courtney]

We pray in the name of Jesus, that you'll protect her, that you'll guard her mind. We pray that you even bless her mom and continue to allow her to see her great days ahead. We pray these things in the name of Jesus.

[Renee]

Amen.

[Courtney]

All the time, girl. We got you. Whenever you need a prayer.

[Renee]

It is unfortunate that we must, in fact wrap up the episode. But before we do that, a massive shout. Shout out to Ray Black. Ms. Black to you guys.

[Ray Black]

Ms. Black, please.

[Renee]

If you want to support our good sister, then I suggest you not only stream all of her incredible albums, but also her EP of Forest Fire. Because it is fire. See what I did there, guys? I was waiting to do that. I was waiting for a moment to do that. But you can also follow her on all her social media platforms as well as look out for a familiar face on her latest Paramount series, which is out now.

[Courtney]

We love to see it and make sure that you follow us literally everywhere at To My Sisterhood. Come and dial in with what it is we are doing as a global community and you can follow us individually. Renee Kapuku. Ding. But yeah, guys, get in the loop, man. Sign up to the mailing list on our website. Rate the podcast five stars. There's so many action. Points to action. But yeah, we absolutely adore you guys. We hope that you enjoyed this episode and we'll see you in the next one. So, as always, keep glowing and growing.

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[Courtney]

Hey, mom, you seen my toothbrush? Yeah, I'm almost done with it.

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