Podcast Summary: “I Phoned Donald Trump. He Answered...”

To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes
Host: Charlie Sykes
Guest: Ed Luce, Financial Times
Date: March 19, 2026

Overview

In this episode, Charlie Sykes discusses the aftermath of President Donald Trump’s latest foreign policy crisis—his failed attempt to rally NATO allies to help clear the Strait of Hormuz. The headline moment: Financial Times columnist Ed Luce recounts his surreal direct phone call with Trump, offering candid insights into the President’s mood and mindset amid escalating tensions with allies, intensifying the Iran war, and speculation over the future of NATO. The conversation also touches on U.S. neocolonial rhetoric towards Cuba, the MAGA-wing's schism over the Iran War, rising antisemitism on the right, China’s strategic patience, Middle Eastern dynamics, and the lurking “Epstein files” scandal in U.S. domestic politics.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Ed Luce’s Unexpected Call with Trump

(03:23 – 05:03)

• Ed Luce recounts his phone conversation with Trump:
  • “It’s one of the most Alice in Wonderland moments I’ve had recently. He answered the phone and was very happy to chat for eight minutes. In fact, the call was lost after about four minutes ... and then he called back…” (03:37, Ed Luce).
  • Trump was eager to vent his frustrations, feeling “very happy to chat … or to rant really.”
  • Trump admitted to floating the idea of delaying the planned China summit, blaming “logistics,” but Luce sees this as further fallout from diplomatic frustrations.

2. The NATO “Wall of No” and Trump’s Tantrum

(05:03 – 09:16)

• Trump’s public meltdown followed an extraordinary refusal from all major NATO allies to join his new “coalition of the willing” over Hormuz.
  • “Apparently he was enraged by all of this. Lindsey Graham said ... ‘I’ve never heard him so angry in my life’… then we had this great all-caps post saying, ‘WE NO LONGER NEED OR DESIRE THE NATO COUNTRIES ASSISTANCE. WE NEVER DID.’” (05:03, Sykes).
• Ed Luce identifies panic in Trump:
  • “A sense of quite strong underlying panic … he is in a situation he cannot easily or quickly get out of, which is getting worse. And so he’s looking for people to blame.” (06:11, Luce)
• Allies see Trump’s demands as both unrealistic and politically suicidal for leaders like UK’s Keir Starmer.

3. Consequences for NATO and Transatlantic Relations

(14:07 – 17:13)

• Sykes: “This is what America alone looks like … despite all the bluster and the dick wagging, Trump has clearly lost control of events.”
• Luce: “Pretty much everybody is ... recognized that they need a post-NATO world or they need a NATO minus one.” (14:56)
  • Allies, particularly France and the UK, are openly debating new European security arrangements.
  • The “magic” of Article 5 (collective defense) is gone; alliances are now a question of “trust and credibility.”

4. Trump’s Obsession with UK PM Keir Starmer and the Mood of Allies

(11:43 – 14:07)

• Trump is reportedly fixated on Keir Starmer, lashing out at him in both private calls and public meetings.
  • Ed Luce highlights the bizarre dynamic: “He yet again said, ‘We have a bust of Churchill here. Keir Starmer’s no Churchill. These people are useless.’” (12:29)
  • An Irish leader even stepped in to defend the British PM—unprecedented and telling of just how dysfunctional relations have become.

5. The Blind Spot with Putin

(17:13 – 18:55)

• Despite evidence that Russia is actively aiding Iran militarily, Trump refrains from confronting Putin.
  • “He does not have the courage to even ask Putin politely to stop helping Iran kill American soldiers.” (17:13, Sykes quoting Phillips O’Brien)
  • Luce: “There is some enduring massive Trumpian blind spot about Putin ... For whatever reason, it’s never gonna go away.” (18:06)

6. Insider Access to the President

(18:55 – 20:49)

• Ed Luce provides color on how he reached Trump, noting the President’s selective attention:
  • “It became pretty clear to me that he’d never read a word I’d written ... He gets his information from phone calls and banks of TV screens.” (20:16, Luce)

7. MAGA Wing, Joe Kent’s Resignation, and Antisemitic Tropes

(20:49 – 27:40)

• Joe Kent, Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, resigns—accusing the administration of launching an “Israel-first war.”
• Both Sykes and Luce warn against normalizing antisemitic conspiracy theories:
  • Luce: “What he’s done is he’s injected this antisemitic trope ... my concern is ... he has really raised the profile of this, ‘The Jews did this.’” (23:42, Sykes)
  • “We will break every taboo possible, but ... we’re going to just ringfence that one [the Jews]. Well, there’s no reason why at that point, since you’ve unleashed the Kraken, that the Kraken’s going to say, ‘Oh, okay, there’s a red light. I’ll stop at the red light.’” (26:02, Luce)
• They discuss the dangerous drift of former fringe ideas (“Groyper wing,” Nick Fuentes) into the mainstream right.

8. Trump’s Neo-Colonial Rhetoric: Pivot to Cuba

(30:50 – 35:35)

• Trump pivots, boasting: “I will be having the honor of taking Cuba whether I free it. Take it. I think I can do anything I want with it … I might turn it into a resort.” (paraphrased by Sykes at 31:11)
• Ed Luce sees this as opportunism—Trump seeking a “quick win” after the “strategic disaster in Iran,” aided by Secretary of State Marco Rubio’s long-standing ambitions regarding Cuba.

9. China’s Calculated Restraint and Global Position

(35:35 – 39:31)

• China refuses Trump’s indirect plea to “help bail him out” in the Middle East.
  • “One thing I did not have on my bingo card was Trump asking China to send a naval expeditionary force to help get him out of a war in the Middle East.” (36:22, Luce)
  • China’s policy: “Never interrupt your enemy while he’s making a mistake,” benefiting diplomatically as America flounders.

10. The Quagmire in Iran and Unintended Consequences

(40:34 – 45:38)

• Trump is now trapped in a conflict that’s both inflaming Iran’s hardliners and alienating its public.
  • “You can start a war, but you’re not the only person who gets to decide when it ends.” (40:34, Luce)
• The crackdown and bombings are uniting Iranians against the U.S. and making regime change ever less likely.
• “It’s making the regime more hardline. The hardliners are ... now in control. And B, it’s alienating the people who are supposed to rise up.” (44:04, Luce)

11. Middle East Dynamics: Gulf States and Arms Race

(45:38 – 49:06)

• Gulf rulers, including Saudi Arabia’s MBS, are disillusioned—contrary to rumors, most did not want war.
• Anticipation of an intensified global arms race as a direct consequence of recent instability.

12. Domestic Sideshow: The Epstein Files and Congressional Wrangling

(49:06 – 51:49)

• House Oversight subpoenas to Attorney General Pam Bondi signal internal cracks—even among Trump-aligned Republicans—over handling of the Epstein investigation.
• Luce wryly notes, “Even if there’s a nuclear war, all that will be left will be cockroaches. And the Epstein files. They’re not going away.” (51:21, Luce)

Memorable Quotes

• “He answered the phone and was very happy to chat for eight minutes. In fact, the call was lost after about four minutes ... and then he called back...” — Ed Luce [03:37]
• “Joining Trump’s coalition now would be like buying a ticket on the Titanic to go drinking and dancing the day after it hit the iceberg.” — Retired French general, quoted by Charlie Sykes [05:03]
• “A sense of quite strong underlying panic...He’s in a situation he cannot easily or quickly get out of.” — Ed Luce [06:11]
• “Pretty much everybody is ... recognized that they need a post-NATO world or they need a NATO minus one.” — Ed Luce [14:56]
• “There is some enduring massive Trumpian blind spot about Putin ... For whatever reason, it’s never gonna go away.” — Ed Luce [18:06]
• “We will break every taboo possible, but...we’re going to just ringfence that one [the Jews]. Well, there’s no reason why at that point, since you’ve unleashed the Kraken, that the Kraken’s going to say, ‘Oh, okay, there’s a red light. I’ll stop at the red light.’” — Ed Luce [26:02]
• “I will be having the honor of taking Cuba whether I free it. Take it. I think I can do anything I want with it, if you want to know the truth.” — Donald Trump, quoted/paraphrased [31:11]
• “You can start a war, but you’re not the only person who gets to decide when it ends.” — Ed Luce [40:34]
• “Even if there’s a nuclear war, all that will be left will be cockroaches. And the Epstein files. They’re not going away.” — Ed Luce [51:21]

Notable Timestamps

• 03:23: Ed Luce recounts phone call with Trump
• 05:03: Sykes on Trump’s NATO tantrum and coalition collapse
• 06:11: Luce describes Trump’s panic and strategic isolation
• 14:07: Sykes and Luce on “America Alone” and the unraveling of NATO
• 17:13: Putin’s open support for Iran and Trump’s refusal to confront him
• 20:49: Joe Kent resignation and antisemitic tropes in MAGA movement
• 26:02: Luce on Trump’s selective breaking of taboos and the unleashing of the “Kraken”
• 31:11: Trump’s remarks about “taking” Cuba
• 35:35: China’s response to U.S. chaos in Middle East
• 40:34: Quagmire in Iran and why Trump is stuck
• 49:06: Epstein files and House Oversight committee intrigue

Tone & Conclusion

The conversation is pointedly satirical, intellectually rigorous, and urgent. Sykes and Luce blend dry humor with deep concern over American and allied institutions, Trump’s unpredictability, and the dangers of normalized extremism and damaged alliances. For listeners, the message is clear: “You are not the crazy ones”—the world truly has turned upside down.

For further details and listener questions, see Financial Times and podcast transcripts for coverage on specific developments.