← To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes
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- [00:00]
Charlie Sykes
Foreign Sykes. Welcome to the to the Contrary podcast. And we have so much to talk about. So I am joined with our good friend Jim Acosta, who's also one of Monster here on Substack now. Jim, how are you doing?
- [00:23]
Jim Acosta
Doing great, Charlie. Good to see you again.
- [00:25]
Charlie Sykes
Okay, so you wrote a piece About Air Grift 1, the latest Trump scam about the airplane. And I, I confess to you right before, I can't get enough of talking about this, the palace in the sky. And you wrote a piece the other day saying that, urging critics of the president that this might be a good opportunity to focus like a laser beam on Trump's corruption. So let's do that, at least in the beginning here. Focus like, just like a laser beam. What strikes me about the corruption is that it's so flagrant. He is just flaunting it, making no attempts to cover it up or apologize, and it becomes more brazen all the time. And part of my concern is that people just get numb to it. But the, you know, so talk to me about the. The plane and how we should focus on it and whether you think it makes any difference.
- [01:23]
Jim Acosta
I think it does make. I think it does make a difference, Charlie. And I think, you know, you know, when Ted Cruz is on Squawk Box on CNB raising questions about it, something. Something fishy is going on here. And I'm thinking, is Ted going to be in Iowa next week? What's happening here? But, you know, it's making me think that even the Republicans are starting to look at this and say, gosh, maybe he is a crook. You know, to me, when I looked at this, this Air grift, one thing that was coming down the pike a couple of days ago, you know, to me, it just said, this is the issue that people, Joe Schmo from Kokomo can understand. People on a bar stool outside Pittsburgh can understand when the government of Qatar is trying to bribe the President of the United states with a $400 million plane, which, by the way, is obviously a national security nightmare for our intelligence community. I mean, there's that, but then there's just, you know, it just opens up all of these questions, like, at what point does he start auctioning off seats on Air Force One to his top donors? You know what I mean? Nothing is sacred at this point. And it opens up the conversation, Charlie, to all of these other scams that he's been running since coming into office, this Meme coin thing, which I'm glad senators like Chris Murphy are starting to sink their teeth Into. I mean, what a joke. The fact that, you know, the top owners of his Meme coin are going to be able to join him at his golf club over in Virginia or take a private tour of the White House. I mean, nothing is sacred anymore. Are we selling off Mount Vernon next? You know, what's, what's happening here?
- [02:58]
Charlie Sykes
And see, none of this sounds like a joke. None of this sounds speculative. When you, when you said, is he going to auction off seats on Air Force One, part of me was thinking, I need to check my Twitter feed to see whether that just happened.
- [03:11]
Jim Acosta
It's like the Simpsons where you make a joke about it, but then it comes true. Exactly. Yeah. No, and I just think that it's something that we can all sort of zero in on. Is the, is the, you know, just the filthy stench of corruption that's now hanging over this presidency. And, you know, he's, he's going across the Middle east, you know, like, you know, like a guy with a bag in his hand saying, fill it up with as many goodies as you can. And it's just sort of. I think you hit the nail on the head, Charlie. When he's doing the fact that he's doing it out in the open, I think in Trump's mind, in the back of his mind, he's thinking that's how he can get away with it. If he's just doing it in front of all of us and we're seeing it in the light of day, you know, how are we supposed to, how are we supposed to blow the whistle on it? But that somebody has to do that. And it makes you wonder, at what point are the Republicans going to grow a spine and start holding hearings on this stuff? I mean, you got to be kidding me.
- [04:11]
Charlie Sykes
Does never work for you. Never.
- [04:13]
Jim Acosta
I think never does work for me. I mean, you know, some of them are starting to make some comments on cable news shows. I guess that's a start. You have to start somewhere. But, my God, I mean, the other night, when maybe it was last night or in the last 24 hours, he's with Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, and asking him, how do you sleep at night? And I'm thinking to myself, well, actually, yes, that is a very good question. How does he sleep at night? But they just all seem to be rolling out the gold leaf red carpet for Donald Trump and understanding all too well, because they know who he is, that if they shower him with gifts and money and what have you, it works.
- [04:53]
Charlie Sykes
Okay, so you're a longtime Trump observer and so let me just throw this out at you because I wanted to get your take on this. You know, we talk about, you know, some of the bumps that he encounters, the fact that he had to blink on the trade war, you know, his polls going down. But I have to tell you, at least as an outsider watching him over the last couple days, he thinks he's winning. He's having the time of his life, isn't he? He thinks he can get away with this. Clearly he's emboldened. He's emboldened by a Supreme Court that said he was immune. He's emboldened by all of the other institutions that have bent the knee to him over time. He really does think that he can accept these bribes. If tomorrow the Saudi Arabian king gave him a gold plated super yacht, he would accept it. And, and also he's so confident in, I mean, I'm just confident that he thinks that he can convince the American people that, that the corruption is the smart move. Right. Is that only suckers and losers don't take free things. So right now he, he feels he's acting as if he has the wind at his back. What do you think? I mean, I'm misreading that. He thinks. Doesn't mean he does, but he thinks so.
- [06:10]
Jim Acosta
I, I think, I think he, he thinks that he has a lot of Runway to go back to the Air Force One business between now and the midterm elections to basically scoop up as much goodies for himself and for his family that he can. It's sort of like, you know those supermarket contests where they start the clock and you just try to shove as many groceries into the grocery cart. That's what he's doing right now. But on, on the global stage and at some point the Republicans are, I, I think it, you know, listen, unless they just want to get wiped out in the midterms in sort of a biblical way, somebody's going to start raising some questions and you're going to see some vulnerable Republican senators start to get a little noisier. Thom Tillis of North Carolina just recently said, no, I can't swallow this Ed barton nomination for U.S. attorney in D.C. and so that went away. And Ed Martin, I mean, you thought RFK and Jeannine, he's bringing in Judge Boxwine. That's true.
- [07:05]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah.
- [07:06]
Jim Acosta
But if you read the New York Times today, apparently Stephen Miller is running all things Justice Department, not Bondi. So of course they can put Judge Jeanine over at the U.S. attorney's office in D.C. if Stephen Miller is running the show. So, I mean, we can all get a good laugh at this. But there's something very serious going on, Charlie, and some of this is we're distracted by the bright shiny object. And I know people criticize that, and they say, oh, don't go after the bright, shiny objects when it's corruption, when it's selling out the White House, we have to chase after the bright shiny object. But there's something that we are being distracted from, and that is Trump trying to torch the Constitution and saying we're going to get rid of due process, and Stephen Miller saying we're going to get rid of habeas corpus. That's the real constitutional crisis that we face right now. I mean, the emoluments clause being violated, yes, that's very serious. It should be impeachable. But, you know, there's, there's a bigger picture at play as well. But Charlie, like you said, he thinks he's got a Runway between now and the midterms, and he's just going to do it. He's going to, he's, he's doing the supermarket dash. There's no question about it.
- [08:07]
Charlie Sykes
No. And then there's a, there is a real, you know, f you quality to all of this, you know, that he, that he simply doesn't care how things look. New York Times had a very interesting contrast between Trump 1.0 when there were concerns about, you know, free meals and maybe, you know, you know, the Trump Hotel was, was, was problematic. They all seem really quaint compared to what we have right now. So let's go back to the plane, though, and to your point that everybody can understand it, because I agree with this, it feels much more tangible than trying to explain the crypto meme coin scam to everybody. Does it pose a threat to his populist brand and his imaging? Because a week ago he was talking about how Americans need to, like, live with fewer dolls, only a couple of dolls, only five pencils. Now he's basically accepting a bribe from the paymasters of terrorists. You would think that this would pose a political danger. I mean, so these guys sitting on the bar stool, do they think that maybe Trump's not one of us? Or this infinite capacity people have in their minds to rationalize things, how does that actually play out, do you think?
- [09:23]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, you know, listen, Charlie, you and I both know, because we've talked about this before, there is a great capacity on the part of his base to absorb just about anything. I mean, you know, I'm of the firm belief, and I've said this to friends in the past and my friends in the press corps, if the pee tape had turned out to be real, that would have been, that would have, you know, that would have been no big deal. No problemo inside the base of the Republican Party. So you do have to wonder if, if they're really going to care about a free plane. But when he's out there saying goodies for me, but not for the, that, sorry, you know, sorry, Chatty Cathy, you only get two dolls this Christmas. But I get a brand new plane from the Qataris at some point. You know, there's only so much people can, can stomach and we may be in that neighborhood right now. I mean, the other, the other part of this. And maybe, you know, I don't know, maybe it's a taste thing, but like, one has to assume that this new Air Force One is just going to be the gaudiest thing known to mankind. It's going to be, oh, my God, more tacky than those. That crappy gold leaf stuff that he's got on the fireplace in the Oval Office. I've been in the Oval Office so many times over the years that, that crappy gold leaf stuff that you get at Home Depot that he put on.
- [10:44]
Charlie Sykes
The fireplace, spare rugs, you know, come on, pick pictures of dogs playing cards. I mean, it's going to be the worst. It's going to.
- [10:55]
Jim Acosta
Is there a velvet bullfighter in the, hanging in the Oval Office now? Like, what's going on here, guys?
- [10:59]
Charlie Sykes
Well, velvet portraits of Donald Trump, you know, rising from the, I mean, you know, you know what it's going to be like. So I do, I do wonder whether that, that cuts against him. Let's just go back to just a couple of things that I think are significant. You're starting to hear people say this is a real national security risk. You know, the, they're going to have to debug this thing. I think it's ironic that Donald Trump has built his entire economic vision around build and buy American. And yet when it comes to Air Force One now we're going to take it from, you know, the, you know, Qataris. I mean, that's an issue. You know, there are also people saying this is just not going to happen because it's going to take so long to retrofit this. So he's taken the political hit, but it's not an absolute certainty that he's going to take delivery of this thing before that window that you described shuts. What do you think? I mean, we don't know.
- [11:51]
Jim Acosta
It's, I mean, he, he has been, you know, for all of our conversation earlier about how he's so confident, he's acting as if the wind is at his back. I mean, on this tariff issue, if, you know, somebody sneezed in Beijing and he, he caved on tariffs with China, you know, that didn't take very long. And, you know, it just seems to me that, you know, I, I again, I think he is just trying to grab everything in sight. What he can pull the furniture, you know, out of the, you know, pull the paintings off the walls, shove it in the, in the shopping cart and see what he can get away with. I just, you know, I, I don't know how you can take delivery of a Qatari purchased and, and donated or whatever you want to call it, granted version of Air Force One. I saw David Ignatius on MSNBC the other day saying that, that the intelligence community would very likely want to have that plane disassembled and examined piece by piece. And if you're Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, would you want that baby landing in Tel Aviv? I mean, that doesn't sound like such, like such a good idea to the Israelis that they're going to want that, that kind of an aircraft landing in their airspace. And so, of course, there are going to be all kinds of questions about this. And from time to time, we may see national security officials from the administration testify on Capitol Hill and they'll be asked about this. But, you know, as others have said, shamelessness is a superpower. And so, you know, you're seeing his true social posts and so on. I don't know if he'll back down on this in the near future, but you might be right that we may never see this thing, you know, actually, you know, hit the Runway that, that may not come to fruition.
- [13:39]
Charlie Sykes
I saw David Ignatius comments and, you know, because I've become increasingly cynical about this, you know, he's talking about the national, you know, the intelligence community that assumes that that has not been dismantled or that anybody in that national, you know, security community would be willing to stand up knowing that they would probably be fired if they raised any questions. Now, you actually had a very tangible proposal in your P the other day going to the question of what Democrats can do because Democrats continue to flail around. I mean, okay, one and a half cheers for Chuck Schumer, saying he's going to place a hold on all Department of Justice appointments, a senatorial hold, until Pam Bondi answers Questions about this, which I thought was great, except like, chuck, where the fuck have you been the last hundred days? I mean, you and I could come up with it. You have come up with a pretty long list of things that might have triggered, like, hey, maybe this would be a time for you to place a hold on nominations. But you suggested Democrats would be wise. Yeah. To introduce legislation to block Trump from accepting the lavish overture and dare Republicans to block it. Now, that is interesting, because I see a lot of people in MAGA world saying, well, how is this any different than the United States accepting the Statue of Liberty from the French? And yet. Well, I mean, to say that it's not apples and oranges is putting it mildly. But Congress had to approve that. So if Democrats proposed legislation, what would happen? Could they. I mean, that at least get Republicans on record? Every single congressman, every single senator, get them on record. Do you approve, you know, basically, you know, accepting this bribe from one of the greatest financiers of terrorism in the Middle East? What do you think?
- [15:27]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, just like we're seeing members of Congress on the Democratic side craft legislation to try to halt the use of these meme coins, you need something like this as well to say that, you know, president can't accept an aircraft from a foreign country, from a foreign government. And, you know, the point that I make in my piece is that, you know, Donald Trump is the kind of president that you need new laws to sort of rein him in, and laws that we didn't even think possible because we had something called the Constitution. But keep in mind, I mean, they had to clarify the Vice president's role in the counting of electoral votes because of Donald Trump.
- [16:06]
Charlie Sykes
Nobody thought that was necessary.
- [16:07]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, we didn't think that that was something on our to do list or that we had in our inbox. But, my goodness, you know, he. He puts us in a position where we have to come up with all sorts of things to keep him from, you know, running off with, you know, the whole thing. And, you know, it seems to me this is a slam dunk for Democrats. Put together some legislation that says you cannot do this and dare the Republicans to block it and, you know, put the legislation out there, hold a press conference, go on the Sunday talk shows and say, you can't do this and put Donald Trump in a position where, you know, he has to talk about this for another week or so. I. I do think it resonates. I do think it's something people care about. They don't want their president to Be a crook. And, you know, Richard Nixon, you know, famously said, I'm not a crook. Donald Trump seems to be saying, I'm a crook. What are you going to do about it? You know, I think that's what you are right now.
- [16:59]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah. No, I mean, I thought at first I just kind of rolled my eyes when he was trying to compare this to a gimme putt. The great Sam Snead always said, you know, if somebody gives you a putt, you take it. Which, by the way, apparently he made that story up as well. I mean, and it's not news, by the way, that Donald Trump cheats at golf.
- [17:17]
Jim Acosta
But I was going to say, yeah.
- [17:18]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah, that's, that's not news. But, but it was. It's interesting how he's basically saying, yeah, I'm a crook. And this is the smart play to do all of that stuff about sport. I mean, and again, whatever, the gimme put thing, it's a terrible analogy, but it gives you some insight into his mind that, that he, he wants to convince people that accepting all these freebies and doing all this enriching yourself is what real men do. Right. And that you're a loser and a cuck if you don't. If, in fact, you don't go along with this.
- [17:48]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, you know, to me, winners, you know, winners don't fleece the American people. Winners don't sell the White House. And, you know, I, you know, I used to describe it as the catch me if you can presidency. And I believe when I was covering during the first term, I came up with that little line in response to his trying to hold Volodymyr Zelensky over a barrel in order to get dirt on Joe Biden. Not to take us back to ancient history, but I mean, this, this pattern of behavior goes back to the first administration where he sees the, the keys to the White House as the keys to the candy store. And to compare this to the Statue of Liberty, I mean, it's sort of, it's comparing, you know, it's comparing apples and croissants, I suppose.
- [18:35]
Charlie Sykes
But, yeah, we'll keep bringing that on. Right? I mean, it's.
- [18:38]
Jim Acosta
We got the liberty, you know.
- [18:41]
Charlie Sykes
Yes, exactly. Grover Cleveland did not get to put it in his pocket and take it home with him. It's interesting that for some reason they think that, you know, that the fact that it goes to the foundation of the library somehow skirts the law. It actually makes it worse, because when Donald Trump says it's a foreign, it's free, a free Air Force One. It's not free if he takes it home with him, because the next president is going to have to have an Air Force One. Okay, can we go back to the.
- [19:13]
Jim Acosta
Saudi Arabia library is going to be a fucking casino. You know, they're going to put slot machines in that son of a bitch. There's just no question about it. You know, this is Donald Trump. That, that place is going to be walking, you know, talking.
- [19:26]
Charlie Sykes
Well, there won't be a lot of books there. I think that's. Yeah, no, that's just gonna be that. That. That will be sort of, you know, moral.
- [19:34]
Jim Acosta
The art of the steel. Yeah.
- [19:35]
Charlie Sykes
Oh. So his. His romance with. With. With Mosamid bin Salman is.
- [19:43]
Jim Acosta
Is.
- [19:44]
Charlie Sykes
Is again, not a new thing. But, But I wrote in my newsletter, it's almost as if Khashoggi had never existed. That. That. That we didn't know that. That. That MSB murdered an American journalist, lied about it, tried to cover it up, cut up his body using bone saws, and yet now he's like Donald Trump's best buddy. And, you know, on so many levels, his Donald Trump's admiration for autocrats, for dictators, for thugs is bottomless. That he actually, there's part of him that is excited and deeply, deeply admires leaders like Putin or MSB or others or the leaders of China who actually use force and kill people. And I'm sorry, that. That may sound like it's hyperbole, but it's literally the case. And there's a section in his comments where he specifically says there are some, you know, former presidents who had this, I don't know, this penchant for, you know, having moral standards and, you know, being concerned about the sins of foreign leaders. I don't care about any of that stuff. I just want to make deals, which is, like, pretty explicitly saying, I don't care about the fact that you're a murderer. If you can line my pockets and give me this deal, we're going to be good with one another. It's kind of. The aggressive amorality was on full display in Saudi Arabia this week, wasn't it?
- [21:07]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, Donald Trump is kind of America's Saddam Hussein, you know, with Don Jr. And Erica's Uday and Koussay. I think that was their names back in the day. You know, he. He. I think that's why he likes this part of the world so much. It's why he showers people like MBS with all of this praise. He wants to be seen as a czar, as an amir as a dictator, as a tyrant. And these are his peers. You know, the people that make him uncomfortable are Western Democratic leaders, people like Emmanuel Macron and Keir Starmer and so on. These are the, these are the folks who make him nervous because, you know, they remind him that, oh, yeah, you're supposed to be leading a Democratic Party country and, oh, by the way, you know, a moral standard for the rest of the world when it comes to democratic freedoms. And he's just never going to be that president. And the fact that he, I mean, I, I go back to that comment that he made. I've covered Donald Trump a long time when he said to mbs, how do you sleep at night? I mean, that's a question that a lot of journalists in the United States would like to ask mbs, how do you sleep at night after what you did to Khashoggi, butchering him in that fashion? And, you know, I, after that whole episode went down, it's funny that we're talking about this. When I got my press pass taken away back in 2018 and I got it back, it was the next day or the day after that over at the White House, I was able to ask Trump a question on the South Lawn of the White House, and it was about Jamal Khashoggi. And I asked Donald Trump, you know, this was when they put out this report that basically sided with the Saudis. And I said, did you let MBS get away with murder? Did you let the Saudis get away with murder? And he just sort of brushed off the question. He didn't want to answer it, but he's always, you know, the fact that they've never want to, never wanted to hold the Saudis accountable for that is pretty disgraceful. And Charlie, if you look at what some of the 911 families are saying right now in response to Trump's trip to the Middle east and the way he's been cozying up to all these dictators and tyrants, it is pretty appalling to the 911 families the way he showers the Saudis and MBS in particular with all of this praise. I mean, there are a lot of Americans in this country, our age who aren't going to forget that. Never.
- [23:21]
Charlie Sykes
Well, and, you know, it was unfortunate, and it was unfortunate that Joe Biden, who initially had said that MBS was going to be an international pariah, then do you remember when he went to Saudi Arabia and they did that famous fist bump which was, oh, come on. You know, it's, there's sort of a bipartisan sucking up to the Saudis.
- [23:41]
Jim Acosta
So yeah, okay, American leaders kind of know where their bread is buttered sometimes. But I, I would love to see some moral clarity and, and consistency when it comes to. Honestly, it would be nice. Wouldn't that be refreshing?
- [23:54]
Charlie Sykes
Would be.
- [23:55]
Jim Acosta
Where have you gone, John?
- [23:57]
Charlie Sykes
Okay, you, you mentioned in passing something that is really, it was one of the more interesting little sort of insider stories that Stephen Miller, you know, this sort of Rasputin like homunculus who has Donald Trump's ear, that he's the real power behind the Department of Justice. You know, he's been rumored for, you know, I mean, we know that he's basically running deportations in the border in the Department of Homeland Security and all of that. But this report that you were referring to suggests that Pam Bondi is basically just kind of a talking head, that she's sort of out there as a figurehead and Stephen Miller is the one calling the shots. And Stephen, to say that Stephen Miller is dangerous is putting it mildly because you can see that he is also growing in his own self confidence. The fact that he comes out over the weekend and specifically explicitly says they are seriously considering suspending habeas corpus, they are specifically doing something that is rarely done in American history. And now we find out that he's the power behind the Department of Justice. Just give me your thoughts on all of that. I mean it explains a lot, but it also is an indication that the worst may be yet to come.
- [25:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, when Stephen Miller, when a White House official is feeling confident enough, ballsy enough to go out in front of the White House and say that to the cameras that were concerned considering doing away with habeas corpus, that should send chills down the spines of every red blooded American. Because if you can't challenge unlawful detention in this country, we're going to be in a world of hurt people. And if you know, don't buy this, this line from Stephen Miller and those types over there who say, oh, this is just to do with the migrants and so on. I was talking with Joaquin Castro on my podcast. He recently traveled down to Mexico with a couple of other of his colleagues in the house and they visited an 11 year old US citizen who was deported with her family. The little girl has cancer. She has a rare brain tumor. She was deported without her medication. And this is what we are doing with the United States of America is doing right now, ladies and gentlemen, to US Citizen children with cancer. If that doesn't send a chill down your spine, I don't know, I guess check your pulse, you know, call an ambulance. There may be something wrong with you. It is so contrary to the American way of life that it really, it should be something that gets our attention as much or more than the Qataris giving us a free airplane. I mean, honestly, you know, as I have said many times before with respect to Donald Trump, your segment of American society may not be in a sight at the moment, but it might be next. And when they're going after migrants in that fashion, and remember, Charlie, when they talked about mass deportations now and all that stuff, for months and months, they were talking about, we're going to go after the gang bangers, we're going to go after the criminals, we're going to go after the violent people who shouldn't be in this country and so on. They're deporting us citizen kids with cancer. They're not giving these families much of a choice. You can either either abandon your kids in the United States by themselves and let them fend for themselves, or you get taken out of the country even if you have cancer. I mean, that should make everybody sick to their stomach. And when Stephen is feeling confident enough to say that in front of the cameras, something's really wrong. And I think it's absolutely right that he's calling the shots over there at the Justice Department. Not just there at the Justice Department, but over the White House, too. I mean, Charlie, you probably saw this the other day, was in the Oval Office, and he's just talking and talking to the cameras, and Marco Rubio is looking over his shoulder like, oh, I guess he's in charge now.
- [27:40]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah.
- [27:40]
Jim Acosta
I mean, wow.
- [27:42]
Charlie Sykes
Well, and, you know, if, if, if he becomes the public face of the Trump administration, there might be consequence. Okay, I want to make two slightly contradictory points here. Number one, what you're describing is, is so fundamentally un American and so dangerous in terms of the Constitution that I frankly do not care what the polls say. I don't care whether the American people support it or not. The political fallout is secondary to the, the substance of this. Having said that, it is interesting that people like Donald Trump and Stephen Miller were absolutely confident that their mass deportation policies were going to be very popular, that this was going to be the heart of their appeal. And yet these stories like the one you're describing are increasingly becoming the face of the mass deportation. And as when people hear these stories, there does seem to be a revulsion that people do get this. I mean, the polls on Abrego Garcia, you know, the Maryland man who's down in El Salvador, by the way, still there. I mean, he is still there despite the Supreme Court decision. But those would suggest in a gulag that in fact this is cutting through and that this is not playing. And every time you hear a story about, you know, masked ICE agents, I mean, masked secret police taking people off the streets, threatening, arresting them and threatening to deport them, in one case, an international student for writing an op ed piece, this, this strikes me as the ID of Stephen Miller that is actually undermining the Trump administration's position on all of this. And there is a, there is a backlash, a legitimate backlash.
- [29:26]
Jim Acosta
I agree, Charlie. And what the Democrats need and what democracy loving Republicans and centrists need is they need an alternate story to tell the American people about. And I talked about this on my show yesterday. I've talked about it before. I'll relay it to you. I'll do it very quickly. My dad is a Cuban refugee. He came to this country three weeks before the Cuban missile crisis. He and my grandmother, they first landed in Miami, then they ended up in Northern Virginia, right outside Washington, D.C. and my dad tells the story about growing up in Vienna, Virginia. And he was in elementary school. And he remembers the teacher who would pull him out of the classroom every day to teach him how to read and write. He remembers the Presbyterian church in Vienna that gave my grandmother and he coats and sweaters so they could get through their first DC area winter. And so that's the immigrant experience, experience that I was taught about growing up, that we're supposed to be kind and caring and compassionate and welcoming to newcomers to this country. My dad worked at Safeway grocery stores for 40 years. Worked until he couldn't stand up anymore. Paid taxes, paid Social Security, paid Medicare. Now he's enjoying his retirement. He did okay. He was in a union. So on. That too is the immigrant experience in America. And it's not just the Ms. Thirteen gang bangers, the rapists and the criminals that Donald Trump likes to talk about. It's also these little kids, like that 11 year old I was telling you about that Joaquin Castro visited or the four year old Honduran boy who had cancer who was deported with his mother a few weeks ago. You know, people say, oh, Abrego Garcia, I don't know if he's such a great guy or whatever. That's not the totality of the immigrant population in this country. There are lots of people who are just like my dad. They came over here, they worked, they worked their butts off. They raised Kids, are they perfect? Probably not, but did okay in life and is now, you know, living out his golden years in the country that is now his home. And that's who we are. We are.
- [31:29]
Charlie Sykes
We talk about that's the real America.
- [31:31]
Jim Acosta
That's who we are. That's us.
- [31:32]
Charlie Sykes
That's us. Yeah.
- [31:33]
Jim Acosta
That's us as a country, and that's who we are. And we're not. We're not this cruel and nasty and cynical and monstrous place that scoops up little kids and grabs them from their parents and throws them in a country that they've never lived in before. That's not who we are. And I think the Democrats have to get passionate and start talking about those stories, that experience. Get out there, get at it, get after it. I mean, yeah, Chuck Schumer, you can hold up this nomination or you can do this, that and the other thing, the public is craving somebody to grab us by the shirt collars and say, no, there's. This is not the way. There's another way. There's a better way.
- [32:14]
Charlie Sykes
So I radically agree with you, but I want to push back a little bit. I agree with you because I think that almost everybody that I know has an immigrant story. My grandparents, great grandparents, you know, came here. My. My great great grandfather, I was portrait up in my, in my, in my, in my living room. This is the story of America. I mean, the Statue of Liberty is the symbol of. But what is it a symbol of? It's a symbol of the fact that we are a welcoming country. So there's not a real America and an immigrant America. That is the real America. But my pushback is that America has gone through these cycles before of immigration and then pushback there. You know, you go back to the 1920s. In 1925, you know, we passed a law that was one of the most racist laws in American history. You know, in reaction to Chinese immigrants. There have been times when there was a big backlash against, you know, Irish immigrants, Catholic immigrants.
- [33:10]
Jim Acosta
My mom's side is Irish, for sure.
- [33:12]
Charlie Sykes
Right. So, I mean, there, there has been this push back in, in cycles, but again, you know, that's why, you know, this is one of those defining moments in history. We have to decide who we are and what we are about. We've seen this kind of reaction before, but ultimately, I think we become accepting. So what happened in 1925 with the racist immigration law did not ultimately define what America was forever. There is another side of it. So we do keep going back on all this, and I do hope they understand this Speaking of immigration, another story that I find kind of breathtaking and maybe it gets lost. And I know that you've talked about it somewhat, Stephen Miller, and you can tell how much of this is. STEPHEN Miller. Well, it's all, ultimately, Donald Trump shut down all of the refugee programs, shut the door on refugees from some of the most dangerous areas of the world, actually shut the door to many of our Afghan allies. The only exception, white Africaners, who Donald Trump has been convinced are somehow the most endangered people. White farmers, he says, are, are, you know, being threatened with genocide in South Africa. Now, there are problems in South Africa, but there's not genocide in South Africa.
- [34:37]
Jim Acosta
It is not the most conspiracy theory. It's a bogus conspiracy. It is. And, and Tucker Carlson has peddled this thing, I believe, of course, folks on the right, crazy conspiracy theory. And the racism is obviously outlandish. Yeah, it's blatant. It's, it's astonishing even for Donald Trump to see him act in this kind of a racist way. It's just overt. It's, you know, unsettled. It's, it's white hooded racism. Let's just be honest about it. It's absolute white hooded racism. But the other part of it, and this, this should trouble every American. There is, there are, there is hardly a conspiracy theory that he will not adopt. There is hardly a batshit crazy conspiracy theory that he will not adopt if it's peddled by the right and it has to do with white grievance. Donald Trump is going to sign up for that. He's going to go put his name on the list and say, I believe in this too. And it, and it goes back to, there are a lot of these, you know, books and stuff about Joe Biden, he was losing it, and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, wasn't that, Geez Louise, that was something else. No question about it. I agree. But my God, is, has any president acted more batshit crazy than this one ever? I mean, you'd have to go back a long way. I don't know. I, you know.
- [35:56]
Charlie Sykes
No, no, you have to go back a long way.
- [35:58]
Jim Acosta
And he will, he will buy into anything as long as it's a white grievance, racially tinged conspiracy theory, it seems to me. And this is just another example of that.
- [36:08]
Charlie Sykes
If the scriptwriters were coming up with sort of a dystopian view of, you know, how do you portray the most racist possible American administration, it would be one that, that decided that, yes, we're going to re litigate the fallout from Apartheid, and we're going to side with the white farmers there. But it's also this.
- [36:30]
Jim Acosta
I thought he was going to solve inflation, too. You know, I thought he was going to solve inflation, but apparently that, that comes after helping the Africans. But anyway, I digress.
- [36:38]
Charlie Sykes
I mean, I have nothing against the Africans. It's just the, and watching some of the veterans groups react to, like, wait, you are, you know, ending the, you know, protected status for, you know, our Afghan allies, you know, some of the, the people who had been the, the translators who we promised that we would take care of, who have been waiting for months and months, if not years.
- [36:59]
Jim Acosta
Campaigned on over and over again on the campaign trail.
- [37:02]
Charlie Sykes
But anyway, so if you are white, you're. I mean, again, it's the, the lack of subtlety about it. And, and unfortunately, because, and I, I'm getting sick of using the term the zone is flooded. That one story, which is so deeply revealing. Now, to your point, for people who think that we are engaging in a little bit of exaggeration or hyperbole about Donald Trump believing any conspiracy theory, another one of these stories that is almost beyond cartoonish, the role that Laura Loomer continues to play. Laura Loomer, who is one of the nuttiest, most bigoted freaks in American society, is in the Oval Office meeting with the president. And as a result of that, national security aides are being fired. The national security advisor was fired. The fact that he listens to Laura Loomer is beyond any parody. Now, it is worth noting that Laura Loomer is breaking bad on him about the plane. You know, she even. It's too crazy for her because she's going, wait, this is. You're taking a gift from the jihadists. I thought, I wonder whether that aspect of it might break through to people like, you know, we're talking about the corruption and the bribery. You have people on the right who are going, wait, you're supposed to be the national security guy who fights terrorists and you're, like, in bed with these people? I don't know.
- [38:25]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, it may work with some of the Fox News crowd. There's no question about it. But, you know, trying to solve the Donald Trump Rubik's Cube here is something that, you know, everybody's taking a crack at here. But Laura, when you have Laura, when we're on the right, the same side as Laura Loomer, when we're agreeing with Laura Loomer, that's when I go grab my, my bourbon, you know, and it's just, I make it A strong pour. I'll put it that way.
- [38:47]
Charlie Sykes
Well, it's. It's past noon where you are, so you can do that. Okay, so I have a question that I don't think is a trick question, because I was thinking about it, because somebody asked me about RFK Jr taking his grandkids for a swim in this. In this. In this creek that the people have said it's filled with toxins and germs and everything. Okay, it's a. And then I'm also watching my fellow Wisconsinite, Sean Duffy try to spin what's going on with air traffic control. And by the way, if you know Sean Duffy, you're more scared. You'd be more scared than you are right now. So it would be an interesting contest. Who is the weakest link for the Trump administration on their cabinet? Wow. Because. Because right now we have this weird paradox of the people with the plan, the Russ votes and the Stephen Millers, but then you have this incredible clown car of deeply incompetent, maybe figureheads. But. So who's the weak link? Is it going to be RFK Jr because if there's a massive measles epidemic, that's a problem. Is it going to be Sean Duffy when planes start falling out of the sky over. Over Newark? Is it going to be Kristi Noem when they start dragging kids, you know, away from their mothers? You know, with my masked agents? I mean, you could actually run through a lot of these guys and have a reasonable case to be made for half a dozen of them as being like, that's the most dangerous. And we didn't even get to Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegseth. So, I mean, there are so many porous, I think, weak spots in this administrative. What could go wrong? Holy shit. There's so much. We could spend the next hour talking about it.
- [40:28]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Instead of choose your fighter, it's choose your loser. I mean, it's kind of rogues gallery here. It's a motley crew. And we're not sure who's lead singer these days, but, you know, I think RFK Jr. To me, may take the cake. I mean, honestly, he just came out of a global pandemic which Donald Trump colossally mishandled to the tune of, you know, hundreds of thousands of lives lost because of his sheer incompetence. I mean, if you listen to people like Debbie Birx, Dr. Fauci, hundreds of thousands of people died needlessly because of his mismanagement, his conspiracy theory clutching that was emblematic of his leadership during COVID And to me, it is the height of irresponsibility to put a quack like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. In charge of the nation's public health. And I think what crystallizes it sometimes it's an Air Force One from the Qataris that crystallizes it for some people. For others it may be RFK Jr taking his kids, his, his grandkids swimming in Rock Creek Park. And I, you know, listen, I, I grew up in the Washington D.C. area. I grew up knowing you cannot go boating. You can, you can go boating on the Potomac River. You cannot go swimming in the Potomac River. The National Park Service will tell you you can get E. Coli and get very sick or die if you get, if you take a gulp of that water. Same goes for Rock Creek Park. Yes, it's a national park, but those, that creek is running through an urban environment. There is so much E. Coli and God knows what in those creeks. And he should know that. But I don't know, does he, does he think he might stumble upon a bear carcass? I mean, is that what he's thinking, you know, about in Rock Creek Park? But to me, all kidding aside, when he is out there not giving full throated endorsements for vaccines, when he's putting out cockamamie ideas about the measles, when they're talking about taking the fluoride out of the water, this is somebody who can do great harm to our country. And he is there because again, Donald Trump will anything, he will believe anything. And I, there's a part of me that thinks that he sees RFK Jr. In that position as kind of a troll, as sort of, I gotcha. People in public health. Take that, Dr. Fauci. Take that Dr. Birx. I'm going to put RFK Jr. In there and have him wreak havoc. And it is just the height of irresponsibility. And I think at the end of the day lives will be lost because of the kukri that, that he brings to the table.
- [43:03]
Charlie Sykes
Well, I also think he dislikes the, the, the fact that he has a Kennedy working for him, that he's Robert F. Kennedy, you know, that he's.
- [43:10]
Jim Acosta
Well, there's that too. Yeah, I've got, see, I'm good with some celebrities, you know.
- [43:14]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah. So we'll have to have a conversation in a couple of weeks about. A couple of weeks about what's happening in Congress. I haven't focused enough on it, whether or not we're going to get that big beautiful bill and whether or not Republicans are going to be able to square the circle because I don't know. I was told about five minutes ago that the tariffs were going to, you know, bring in so much money that we could abolish the income tax. And now apparently that's off the table and they have to figure out how to cut Medicaid without anybody noticing and cutting all of those things that are going on. It's interesting that Donald Trump was, apparently.
- [43:47]
Jim Acosta
Joshua raised a fist against cutting Medicaid. I don't know if you saw that.
- [43:50]
Charlie Sykes
Well, that's interesting. And apparently they pushed back on, again, the suggestion about actually raising taxes on millionaires and billionaires. But it was interesting that Trump even thought about all that. But the one thing that's increasingly clear is the whole Elon Musk Doge thing was one of the great performative fiascos of all time, because everybody's now, like, looking at these savings and going actually that, you know, despite all the chaos, despite the damage, despite everything you cut, like, what, some infinitesimal percentage of the federal budget. And, you know, I suppose there's a reason why we're not hearing much about Elon Musk anymore.
- [44:28]
Jim Acosta
And everywhere I go in D.C. i see a Tesla and it says, I got this Tesla before Elon Musk went crazy. Oh, really? You know, everybody, you know, he is, you know, I hope he didn't buy any real estate when he was here because, you know, he's not below.
- [44:45]
Charlie Sykes
So could you get a Tesla, like, used pretty cheap in Washington, D.C. i think.
- [44:51]
Jim Acosta
I think they'll pay you to buy one. I think if you're, if you're in the market for Tesla, come to a dealership in the Washington, D.C. area. I hear they're giving them away. So.
- [44:58]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah.
- [44:59]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [44:59]
Charlie Sykes
Brilliant.
- [45:01]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Doge was not exactly his best marketing ploy.
- [45:05]
Charlie Sykes
No, it wasn't. And it will be interesting to read the accounts when people finally tally up what a complete fraud that whole thing was. Jim Acosta, it is always a pleasure talking with you. You can see, Jim, you. You do videos pretty much every day, don't you, in the Jim Acosta show.
- [45:22]
Jim Acosta
Right here on Pretty Much the News Never Stops. Although I occasionally do, but we try to do it every day. 4 o' clock Eastern on substack, a little bit later on YouTube and please tune in. And it's always great to be with you, Charlie.
- [45:36]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah, well, work life balance, Jim. Work life balance. I'm just saying. And thank you all for listening to this episode of to the Contrary podcast. I'm Charlie Sykes. You know why we do this? Because more than ever, it is important to remind ourselves that we are not a crazy woman. Thanks.