To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes

Episode Title: Lincoln Warned Us About Trump

Date: February 3, 2026
Guest: Harry Litman (Talking Feds Podcast)

Overview

In this episode, Charlie Sykes is joined by Harry Litman to dissect the latest turbulence in American democracy, focusing on law, culture, and the ongoing erosion of civic norms under Donald Trump’s presidency. The conversation centers on Trump’s recent shuttering of the newly rebranded "Trump Kennedy Center" in the face of artistic boycotts, the echoes of Abraham Lincoln’s Lyceum Address, and the escalating weaponization of the Department of Justice—most notably through the controversial arrest of journalist Don Lemon. Other prominent topics include ICE’s abuse of power, the judiciary’s role as a potential safeguard, the DOJ’s tactics in civil rights cases, and deepening concerns about federal interference in state elections.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Trump Kennedy Center Shutdown and Cultural Rejection

[02:23–10:53]

• Trump’s Rebranding and Closure

  • Trump renamed the Kennedy Center as “Trump Kennedy Center” but, after a cascade of high-profile artist withdrawals, shut it down citing “renovations”—a justification the hosts doubt.
  • Numerous celebrities and musicians, including Philip Glass, Stephen Schwartz, Hamilton’s team, Renée Fleming, Chuck Redd, and Rhiannon Giddens, pulled their performances in protest.

• Philip Glass’ Stand

  • Legendary composer Philip Glass (now 89) withdrew his Abraham Lincoln-inspired Symphony No. 15, citing that the Center’s “values are in direct conflict with the message of the symphony.” [07:57]
  • Glass’s act and statement are discussed as emblematic of civil engagement and moral backbone in the arts.

• Lincoln’s Lyceum Address as a Blueprint

  • Harry Litman reflects on the Lyceum Address (1838) by a 28-year-old Abraham Lincoln as prescient in warning against internal decay:

  “It’s about disrespect, the rule of law, impunity for not respecting it... That is the recipe for America’s demise... you can’t help but read it and see Donald Trump all over it.” – Harry Litman [05:16–07:03]

  • Lincoln warned that the downfall of America would not be from foreign foes but from within, through the corrosion of civic norms and the rule of law—a process Litman and Sykes see in today’s environment.

• Trump’s Reaction and Deep-Seated Insecurity

  • Sykes and Litman speculate that Trump’s actions stem from long-standing feelings of rejection by cultural elites—his efforts to co-opt such spaces end up deepening his humiliation.

  “This is his trying to appropriate one of the biggest elite institutions in America and just failing miserably and having that level of culture completely reject him. I think that’s... an old wound.” – Harry Litman [09:06]

2. The "Melania Movie" and Elite Cynicism

[13:00–15:25]

• Critique of the Amazon-Produced Melania Documentary

  • The movie is panned as a “docubribe” and an “optic disaster,” especially amidst Amazon layoffs and Bezos’s detachment from the Washington Post.

  “It’s such a naked payoff by Jeff Bezos. They called it a docubribe... The optics are horrible.” – Charlie Sykes [13:36]

  • Maureen Dowd’s review is quoted (“Melania is where she wants to be, in the bosom of a corrupt family that is prostituting the people’s house.”) [14:19]

• Theme: Tale of Two Cities and Shamelessness

  • Both hosts bemoan the growing divide between the billionaire class and the American middle class, tying the era’s moral nihilism to the Trump legacy.

3. The Epstein Files, Shamelessness, and the “Trump Effect”

[15:25–18:16]

• Powerful Men and Accountability

  • Sykes wonders aloud:

  “How many of those men... are gonna lose their place in society... become pariahs... lose their jobs? And my guess is probably few. None... This is the Trump effect... No shame, no guilt.” [15:52–16:39]

  • Litman adds that blatant predatory behavior now faces significantly less public and professional censure.

  “Trump is the perfect antithesis to everything I learned in kindergarten.” – Harry Litman [16:39]

4. The Arrest of Don Lemon and Department of Justice Weaponization

[18:16–29:13]

• Political Targeting of Don Lemon

  • Don Lemon is arrested on charges stemming from filming, and possibly instigating, a protest that entered a church as part of an anti-ICE demonstration.
  • Sykes and Litman agree that Bondi (Attorney General) is performing for Trump, using the federal justice apparatus as a political weapon.

  “This case is never going to... He’ll never be convicted and doubtful he’ll even see a jury... But mission accomplished... It’s all designed to... be a complete Bondi performance play.” – Harry Litman [19:25–24:48]

• Press Freedom Under Siege

  • Discussion revolves around whether Lemon, as an independent journalist, is protected by the First Amendment.
  • Sykes raises the political imprudence of the protest (interrupting church, a private space), but both agree Lemon’s role was unmistakably journalistic.

  “Is Lemon a journalist? Of course he is... he’s got his producer there and he’s doing so there. There’s no doubt.” – Harry Litman [26:18]

• Statutory Overreach and Hypocrisy

  • The statute used, originally designed to prevent violent blockades at clinics, is stretched beyond reason to charge Lemon—a move the DOJ’s own professionals reportedly opposed.
  • Sykes points out the hypocrisy, noting ICE’s well-documented intimidation of church communities.

  “Hypocrisy with hair on it if we’re really concerned about freedom of worship.” – Charlie Sykes [27:36]

5. Judicial Pushback Against ICE and DOJ

[29:13–38:34]

• Federal Judges Lose Patience

  • Judges are forcefully rebuking DOJ and ICE’s conduct, exemplified by Judge Beery’s scathing order for the release of a 5-year-old boy, Liam Ramos, held as “bait.”
  • Judge Beery draws direct parallels between current government cruelty and grievances cited in the Declaration of Independence.

  “For some among us, the perfidious lust for unbridled power and the imposition of cruelty in its quest know no bounds and are bereft of human decency. And the rule of law be damned.” – Judge Beery via Charlie Sykes [29:13–30:39]

• Are the Courts Still Guardrails?

  • Litman observes that courts, from frustration and distrust, are increasingly willing to write in fiery, unprecedented language.

  “We’re now at a juncture where... federal judges [say], ‘We don’t trust you anymore, DOJ. You’re not complying.’” – Harry Litman [32:02–33:03]

• States’ Rights: 10th Amendment Battles

  • A new, aggressive wave of state-level resistance to federal overreach is emerging, particularly in states like Minnesota.
  • Judge Menendez denied an injunction based on the novelty of the theory, but the fight is far from over.

6. DOJ Civil Rights Investigation as Obstruction

[38:34–43:27]

• Selective “Investigations” as Blockades

  • The DOJ’s reversal (now investigating Alex Preddy’s death, but not that of Renee Goode) is seen as a tactical maneuver to preempt state-level action.
  • Litman notes the practical effect: an “open investigation” blocks local authorities while rarely bringing genuine accountability.

  “Having an investigation open is a very convenient tool for shutting the state down... And if you are indulging cynical thoughts about Todd Blanche, man, what a few weeks he has had.” – Harry Litman [40:14–42:17]

  • The effect is likened to “an obstacle course” for Minnesota officials.

7. The Prospects for Justice: State Charges and Federal Supremacy

[43:27–47:09]

• Potential for State-Level Prosecution

  • Litman expresses cautious optimism that Minnesota can and will file charges in the high-profile shootings, despite DOJ attempts to preempt.

  “I think in both these cases there will be guilty verdicts under Minnesota state law. And all the kinds of, of tries to make him go away because of federal supremacy law will not ultimately prevail, but will be time consuming.” [46:10–47:09]

  • They discuss the mountain of video evidence and the precedent for state charges against federal officials.

8. Direct Federal Interference in State Elections

[47:09–50:00]

• FBI Raid in Fulton County: Prelude to 2028

  • The FBI’s raid of the Fulton County, Georgia, election office raises alarms of direct federal interference in state-run elections.

  “On a scale of 1 to 10, how alarmed should we be? Because I’m kind of at an 11.5 at the moment.” – Charlie Sykes [47:09]

  • Litman warns that Trump is preparing mechanisms and loyalists to rewrite or challenge election outcomes, and that the precedent could warp future elections—especially if the Supreme Court grants expanded executive emergency powers.

  “If they grant him those kinds of outsize emergency powers, he can screw with elections in all kinds of ways.” – Harry Litman [49:48]

Notable & Memorable Quotes

• “The values of this symphony are... completely antithetical to the now values of the center.” – Harry Litman (on Philip Glass) [04:50]
• “It’s about disrespect, the rule of law, impunity... That is the recipe for America’s demise... you can’t help but read it and see Donald Trump all over it.” – Harry Litman [05:16–07:03]
• “For three years it’s going to be... one big name after another humiliating us about how I’ve shittified the Kennedy Center. So he just shut it down.” – Charlie Sykes [08:23]
• “This is his trying to appropriate one of the biggest elite institutions and just failing miserably... having that level of culture completely reject him.” – Harry Litman [09:06]
• “It’s such a naked payoff by Jeff Bezos. They called it a docubribe.” – Charlie Sykes [13:36]
• “Trump is the perfect antithesis to everything I learned in kindergarten.” – Harry Litman [16:39]
• “This case is never going to... He’ll never be convicted and doubtful he’ll even see a jury. But mission accomplished.” – Harry Litman [24:46]

Section Timestamps (approximate)

| Segment | Start Time | End Time | Topic | |---------|-----------|---------|-------| | Welcome & Topic Preview | 02:23 | 03:20 | Overview of current events | | The Trump Kennedy Center & Philip Glass | 03:20 | 10:53 | Boycotts, Glass, Lincoln’s Lyceum | | “Melania Movie” & Elite Hypocrisy | 13:00 | 15:25 | Bezos, split-screen of elites | | Epstein Files, Shamelessness | 15:25 | 18:16 | Societal repercussions, the “Trump effect” | | Don Lemon Arrest, DOJ Weaponization | 18:16 | 29:13 | Lemon’s protest case & press freedom | | Judicial Pushback & ICE | 29:13 | 38:34 | Judge Beery, 10th Amendment, Menendez | | DOJ “Investigates”—as Obstacle | 38:34 | 43:27 | Federal-state tension, Alex Preddy case | | State-Level Justice Prospects | 43:27 | 47:09 | Likelihood of prosecution, federal law | | Federal Meddling in Elections | 47:09 | 50:00 | Fulton County raid, 2028 implications |

Tone and Final Reflection

The episode is equal parts sardonic, outraged, and analytical. Amidst gallows humor (“Ice Capades, Guns on Ice” [12:46]; “docubribe”), there’s a deep sense of alarm about creeping autocracy, a justice system repeatedly bent to personal power, and a culture numbed to what used to be politically terminal scandals. Despite the gravity, both hosts insist on the importance of not surrendering to cynicism and remind listeners, as Sykes closes, that “if you’re watching all this and think this is nuts, you are not the crazy ones.” [50:55]

Listen if You’re Interested In...

• The cultural and legal implications of Trump-era politics
• How Lincoln’s warnings eerily map onto today’s crises
• Press freedom, DOJ overreach, and judicial resistance
• The intersection of politics, culture, and elite impunity
• Concerns about U.S. democratic guardrails holding under mounting stress

Guest Links:

• Harry Litman: Talking Feds Substack

Host: Charlie Sykes

(Summary skips commercial breaks and non-content banter)