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- [00:02]
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- [01:55]
Charlie Sykes
Welcome to the to the Contrary podcast. I'm Charlie Sykes. What are we on day 15, day 16 of Donald Trump not being able to shake the Jeffrey Epstein story? Okay, we're not going to talk about that today. We will get back to that later end of the week. But we're going to do something a little bit different. I have a very, very special guest. Mark Rasico is the former governor of the state of Montana, also former chairman of the Republican national committee and in 2004 he successfully managed George W. Bush's reelection campaign. So we are talking some very heavyweight Republican credentials and he's doing something rather interesting these days. He has joined an organization called, well it's sort of a shadow rnc. It is the Republican legacy and Governor Racico is one of the co chairs of that along with some very, very impressive names. Group of non Trumpist Republicans who are trying to bring the Republican Party party back to its roots. And one of the reasons why, I mean we have to talk about this is the kind of names, it's not just the governor but you know, a lot of familiar names. You know former Speaker John Boehner is one of the founding members. Adam Kinzinger is one of the founding members. You have two former Republican vice presidents of the United States, Dan Quayle and Mike Pence are on this list. You have Mickey Edwards, Claudine Schneider, Mark Kirk, Michael Steele, Senator Gordon Smith, Susan Molinari. There was once a time when these were the names to conjure with about the Republican Party. So, first of all, welcome to the podcast, Governor.
- [03:32]
Mark Rasico
Thank you so much, Joey. I'm delighted and privileged.
- [03:36]
Charlie Sykes
Okay, so what I'd like to do is, like, explain what you are trying to do, and then I'm going to ask you some admittedly skeptical questions about where you're going. So what is our Republican legacy? And what are you. What do you envision again? What is your mission, you and your colleagues?
- [03:59]
Mark Rasico
Well, it all begins with a resolute belief, I think, Charlie, that we all that are bonded in this effort to believe that there is a repository of good sense and honest purpose and a commitment to history and to the majesty of the Republican Party as Lincoln envisioned it. To believe that our fellow comrades of people that we've worked with over the course of time, in fact still hold those principles of the Republican Party fashioned under Lincoln dear and close to our hearts. And as a consequence, that we need to try and work this effort to make them feel welcome, to come back and return to the Republican Party as opposed to the one that's masquerading now, the cabal that's masquerading now as the Republican Party and once again recommit to the notions of limited government, to rejecting the populist extremism of the country, making certain that, you know, we're focused upon the rule of law and our Constitution, protecting the Constitution. We all share a notion that our Constitution is in great and our country, our democracy, is in dire need of rejuvenation and rehabilitation and a recommitment to the principles of the party. And we take comfort in recognizing that the Republican Party began in a period of time where there was tumult and a great deal of turmoil. And as a consequence of that, I believe that we have the ability to reenlist all of our former colleagues and those who know that in their hearts, if there's something wrong in the country, there's something wrong with the Republican Party, and we're not going to place it back in a healthy position without us recommitting to the fundamental purposes and points of interest for those who have been Republicans over the course of many years.
- [05:59]
Charlie Sykes
Okay, so I guess my first question is really, read the room, Governor. You guys are not gonna be invited back into this Republican Party for a very long time. What you are seeing playing out in Washington right now this is the Republican Party. And when they voted on the big beautiful bill there, what, you know, a handful, two, three Republicans that said, we're Republicans, we believe in fiscal conservative or whatever. So, I mean, is there something, I'll be direct. Is there something quixotic about what you're doing? Is there something delusional about this? To think that you can ever bring this magnified Republican Party back to some, some semblance of principle and rationality? Because some of us have been struggling for a decade on this.
- [06:46]
Mark Rasico
Okay, we, we believe so. And frankly, Charlie, when you think about what are the alternatives here to continue on this same path that we've been led to believe is a ticket to, to a dreamland of Donald Trump, that that's just not going to work. I mean, at this moment in time, we've got a party that believes in autocratically assembling authority and power, sacrificing the commitment to those traditional values of the Republican Party that ultimately will lead to desecration of the Constitution. And frankly, it places the very idea of democracy and a free country at risk. So there are very few alternatives. Certainly there have been efforts to pull different levers at different times. For myself, in 2016, I came out in fairly strong terms against supporting the candidacy of Donald Trump because frankly, he didn't have the character, he doesn't have it today, to govern in a way that reflects the Reaganiskum quality and character of our party, the Lincoln esque character of our party. And as a consequence of that, we just believe that there's enough of a repository and enough memory from those that we have worked with over a great many years and listening and talking to the people of this country to believe that it is a mighty chore. Unquestionably, we're not deluded into thinking that somehow this is an easy clarion call and everything falls back into place. But we're working diligently at it and we know that it's going to take some period of time, but we want to present the alternative that must be forgotten by many who are presently serving. So it may be a huge undertaking. At the same time, we have few alternatives. We believe in the people of this country. We believe that the majority of people are of good sense and honest purpose, and at the end of the day, that we can reassemble that governing coalition of people focused upon true Republican principles and the best interests of the country at the same time.
- [09:04]
Charlie Sykes
Really, I'm trying to imagine anybody on this list ever speaking at a future Republican National Convention. I mean, let's be honest about it because I identify with a lot of what you're talking about here have been struggling. And at some point isn't the reality check that we have been purged, that what you are describing as the Republican legacy just only exists in memory? I mean, can you name a single anti Trump elected official in either the House or the Senate right now, Somebody who you would think would agree with the principles that you and your colleagues are enunciating? Can you name one?
- [09:47]
Mark Rasico
I can't, to be honest with you, not by their votes, at least by conversations with them. I surely can offer some hope and promise for the future because they know that things aren't right, that the country is now experiencing a rhythm and a rhyme that simply doesn't make sense. It doesn't comport with our history. So unquestionably we can't point to any specific individuals who are presently serving and operating under the cabal initiated by Donald Trump that will come out and stand strong. And frankly, that's a legitimate critique to make and it's just honest. We're not trying to create more angry, bitter politics here. But it's also true, Charlie, if you think about it for the private sector and where are they presently? How much can they tolerate? Are they only focused upon whether or not the stock market rises or falls or do they care about the country? And in their real sense, this is about do we really. The question we ask is do we really care enough about our country to exhibit some courage, to take a step into the unknown, to defend those known principles that have served us so well as a democracy over 250 years? So is it a dream? It's a part dream. Is it worth our effort? We think the mission is clearly worth our effort. Do we think that we can find over time an audience that will grow larger? Yes, we believe that or we wouldn't be engaged. And at the end of the day, frankly, what alternatives do we have other than to go to the people and to the leaders that serve us allegedly and try to make some sense to them about how we have to proceed in the future or the whole country comes apart at the seams. And there are some who think I'm a little bit extreme in my notions about whether or not the democracy could be destroyed, like I'm Chicken Little running around with, you know, crying about the sky falling. The fact is that we have no other alternatives other to re enlist people of good sense. And we know they're there. They may not have the courage at the moment. I think it's starting to evolve. I see changes in the amount of people at town halls. I travel all over, talking with people everywhere. There's a great deal of unsettled emotion among the people that we live with. They know that something different has to be done. They know we have to return to our principles. And even those people in Congress, you know, interest. Interestingly, I went through a list the other day and came up with a list of about 10 of the senators, Republican caucus, senators that are presently serving, that I either recruited, worked for, traveled the country for, or raised money for. And I know the quality and character that may be lying latent coursing through their veins, but at the end of the day, they're not exhibiting the kind of courage that it's going to take to retrieve this country from the final abyss. And that, that is how I see it. So that's where we're going to go, is to them and to our business leaders. Where are these great titans of industry who have set about to, you know, solve the world's problems for their businesses? Certainly they've done just fine. What are they going to do about the moment that the very future of the democracy is in the rear view mirror? Are they going to wait too long? So that's our mission. I mean, we're just starting. Is it, is it a hard, long slog? Yes, it will be. But we've got some action points here and there. 2026 is one. The people of this country who own this government, own this democracy, I think, are more unsettled every day about what's going on. So the more, you know, the more burning of the edifice that takes place with Donald Trump and his minions every single day, the more that crisis is going to rise in terms of intensity and just wait.
- [13:58]
Charlie Sykes
Look, I mean, I'm very sympathetic because I do think that America needs two rational political parties. We just cannot, given the binary nature of our choices, as you point out. What are our choices? The Republican Party has to come back. But I'm very interested in getting your take on all this because you had a unique seat in Republican Party and I wrestle with this as well. But you, I think, have some more insight. How do you think we got here? I mean, if you, I'm sure you've thought about this from how did you get from the party of Abraham Lincoln and Dwight Eisenhower and, you know, Ronald Reagan and George Bush and all of these folks? How do you get to where we're at right now, this radical, extreme populist party? Give me your theory of the Case. I mean, I've said in the past that, you know, that there were these nut jobs were always there or these extremists were always there, but they were a recessive gene in the Republican Party. We always thought the center would hold, but then it didn't hold. How did this happen, Governor?
- [15:01]
Mark Rasico
Well, I think there are a number of circumstances that intersected as a matter of coincidence. It couldn't have been planning over the course of time. You know, you start with the understanding that took us 180 years as a group of people that landed on the shores of Virginia and to end up with a constitution in the first place. So we went through a lot of struggle and anguish, our ancestors, over a great period of time and a very long revolutionary war that left death and destruction virtually every place. From that, we went to the Constitutional Convention. And frankly, they didn't all report for duty. Those who were at the convention with a unanimity of thought about what was going to take place. There was despair at notions virtually every place. But they focused, recognizing that if they did not do what needed to be done, they would never have a country. And over time, 89 days, sitting in deliberations with one another, they came to agreement about a form of government that had never been tried for a long period of time that could serve the country well, preserve our liberty and our capacity to live in peace with one another and to move forward as a nation. So that's where we began. What happened? Well, there are a lot of circumstances. One is we forgot when we got so focused upon Silicon Valley opportunities and Internet possibilities and electronic communications that in fact, democracy is like a garden. You have to take care of it from day to day. We did not. Over some period of time, we lost focus in terms of our education programming. We no longer were teaching American government and civics in our grade schools and high schools and colleges, focused only upon what we could do electronically across the country. In addition to that, you know, we proceeded in with the Internet being a part of our political and cultural lives. And it was an entirely different means and form of communicating. I look today, there's something like 25 billion different messages that are dispatched every single day. Texts and emails in the United States of America. And they're brittle, they're angry, they're full of all kinds of things and bad manners that people would have never exhibited to each other before. Add to that that when the Internet made its entry, there were no laws that were placed to control content like libel and slander. In fact, there was immunity provided so we failed to educate. We invent a new means of communication. It's angry and bitter and full of possibilities we never imagined. And then there was this fellow who loped into the political consciousness of America and ended up utilizing those deficiencies and the bad side of our nature, the worst angels of our nature. Grievance, resentment, anger. This is like what's happened, in other words, in other democracies prior to ours and other democracies that have come afterwards. They fail because they fall apart from the inside. And so when you merge all those circumstances and the seeking of power is the only objective, the accumulation of power and the inability to respect each other on a daily basis and to accord good manners and the spirit of the Constitution, to pay attention to the notion. The Constitution wasn't about whether or not you are performing your core mission in an individual agency. It was about taking care of each other as much as it was about establishing a formal structural government with a balance of three different powers involved in that government. And it was as much about the rule of law as it was about compassion for our fellow human beings. And we all had to choose this by consent. So we've taken it for granted, Charlie, and we failed to take care of it. And now we've gotten into this place where through a combination of these other circumstances, even little things like not having libel and slander laws, or not having fairness in broadcast laws, or all of those things are required responsibility that those who were going to purvey information had to be responsible for. Now it doesn't happen at all. And then you find this genius that comes into the system.
- [19:37]
Charlie Sykes
But let's go back to this question, though, about the Republican Party, how the Republican Party became the vessel for this man. Because there was a time when it was taken for granted. The Republican Party, of course, was supportive of the Constitution, of course, was supportive of the rule of law, of free markets. Now, again, you had the fringe elements, you had the demagogues, you had the extremists. But I want to talk about the Republican Party because there's a debate and I find myself caught in. There are people like Stuart Stevens, who I'm sure you know, who's written a book saying it was all a lie. Everything Republicans said, everything conservatives said about what they believed in, turned out to be a lie. Republicans had been playing with fire with the Southern Strategy, the willingness to make peace with certain demagogues out there. When you think back on it, you know, because I'm sure that as you watch 2015 morph into 2016 morph into 2020, you were watching your party do things that were horrifying. So I want to focus in on the Republican Party and the Republican legacy because there are people who are listening to us right now and saying the Republican Party was always this bad. This was always a logical exclusion. You know, it was always bull that the Republican Party was the party of fiscal responsibility. We had huge deficits and everything. So just. Can you talk to me about, you know, being somebody who was so intimately involved in the Republican Party? How did the freak element of the party become the dominant element?
- [21:18]
Mark Rasico
Well, I think through the use of those tools that we just described. That we just described and said offer so much angry, bitter edges. It's so edgy. And I've known Stuart since the Bush campaigns. We worked together on the Bush campaigns. And there is a group, or at least an assemblage, I don't know how large or small they are, of those former consultants and loyalists to the party as it was prior to 2008, who were angry and bitter. And frankly, that's not how this is going to ultimately bring back the kind of ruling principles that we think are important. That has to be a process of advancing ideas into the marketplace, examining them, distilling them, working with them, listening to each other, respecting each other, and recognizing what. What's really at stake here. What's really at stake is the future of the country because it's coming apart. Those. The adhesive that holds us together has been diminished as something that's irrelevant.
- [22:22]
Charlie Sykes
You know that I agree with all these meta points you're making. I fully am on board. But you aren't answering my question about the Republican Party. What was in the DNA of the Republican Party? And you have watched friends and colleagues who. I'm guessing it's been a shock. It's been a shock to me to watch them make peace with this, to embrace. To abandon certain principles and embrace principles that are horrible. So again, talk to me about this. What happened to the. How do you go from nominating a Mitt Romney and a John McCain to where we are right now, where those guys are vilified by the dominant Republican Party that is almost unanimous in its support of this bitter, dishonest demagogue?
- [23:13]
Mark Rasico
Well, vilified by those who presently hold the levers of power.
- [23:17]
Charlie Sykes
Yes.
- [23:18]
Mark Rasico
Not vilified by the masses. And that's the difference that I would see there. There. That's what gives me hope that we can work within the decent zones of the Republican Party to recall and to bring back and to reforge a, a group and a party that makes sense. You know, Washington warned us about these political parties, and frankly, his prediction has become precisely true. And what we have presently is that we don't have members of Congress who are willing at this moment in time to exhibit the courage. And that by. What I mean by courage is will you risk losing your position and take the risk to do what you know is right? And frankly, we're going to offer every opportunity to do that. But if they will not, then the country will disappear, the democracy will meet its demise, and there will be no possibility of anything else, because these demagogues that are on either side of the political aisle simply cannot carry the democracy on their shoulders because people will not vest their confidence in them and we will gradually fall completely.
- [24:37]
Charlie Sykes
You mentioned the masses, but I mean, the masses of Republican voters are on board of this. The polls show this. And the reason why, Congressman, are afraid is because they know that if they, if they, if they defy maga, they will lose in these primaries because that's what the voters want these days. Well, at least that's what the polls would suggest.
- [24:59]
Mark Rasico
Well, they think they want. You know, when I was a kid growing up in a little tiny town in northwestern Montana, you could not find a Republican. In fact, in the entire western part of the state, you couldn't find a Republican. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a Democrat in those in those counties. And over time, and there's always been griping about the government. And of course the government is us. It's not some entity that we can't identify. And I think that they became disenchanted. They'll always be summoned, disenchantment. And I don't place every opportunity for our success upon whether or not we poll. Well, in the beginning and at the end of the day, Charlie, really, what, what alternative do we have? Do we just drop?
- [25:45]
Charlie Sykes
People will ask, okay. People listening to this will say, well, there have been others who've become Democrats. Former Congressman Joe Walsh said the alternative is Democrats or a third party. Why are you? Okay? Why not?
- [26:02]
Mark Rasico
Well, a third party. I've tried that. I've worked on two of them with the understanding that idealistically, we could persuade, as a matter of reason and thoughtful consideration, a majority of people to form a different entity. And, you know, we've seen the Libertarian Party exist for quite some period of time, but as you and I would both admit, probably on the fringes. And did they have any real impact? Well, maybe with Bush and Perot, there was some Impact that obviously distorted the electoral results that were present, predicted. But third parties are so hard to form and it's so difficult for independents to be able to be even recognized in a viable candidate unless you're in Alaska on occasion or maybe in Maine or one of those individual states. So for me, I just can't sit by and just let it happen.
- [27:01]
Charlie Sykes
No, I agree. I'm supportive. I'm just trying to figure out how you restore all of this. And I wrestle with these things as well. And so, so let me ask you about the Republican legacy. And you've mentioned Lincoln. I mean, that's reaching pretty deep. The first time and the only time I ever spoke to Donald Trump, I did try to contrast that. You want to sit at the desk that Abraham Lincoln sat at and you Talk like an 8 year old on the playground. But let's go back to the era when you were very, very involved in all of this, because I am trying to figure out how we got here. Because in order to figure out whether you can go back, you have to figure out how you got here. That by the end of the second Bush presidency, a case could be made that the Republican legacy had run out of steam. The traditional Republicanism had been discredited or was uninspiring and therefore was rejected not just by the general electorate, but by rejected by the Republican electorate itself. That by the time 2016 rolled around, traditional Republicans had lost the plot completely. And that many of the people that you're associated with now are associated with a Republicanism that no longer was in touch with Republican voters or with the problems of the country. How do you respond to that critique?
- [28:34]
Mark Rasico
Well, I think that there's some truth in it. At the end of the day, I think we took, took our country for granted. We took the party for granted, that it would always be the party of Reagan that appealed to a wide swath of the American public, regardless of which party they identified with. I mean, I can remember my, my father who was suffering from cancer and was in the final days of his life when I ran for the first time in 1988. And he was a born, you know, died in the wool Democrat, Franklin Roosevelt, Democrat. And I told him I was going to run again. I had lost a couple of races, three races for judge. And he asked me why and I said, because I just feel there's a place out there for me someplace, but I haven't found it. And I said, the more difficult news is, dad, I'm going to run as a Republican. And there he was on his deathbed calling, taking the name of the Lord in vain and asking me why I would do such a thing. And I said, because I find the ideas more attractive on one side than the other. And as a consequence of that, I can be more sincerely engaged on one side than the other. He ultimately was a few days later, within the last, last few hours of his life, and he looked at me, woke up, I was the only one in the room. And he said, I voted for Reagan. And I of course, offered him some judgments about the fact that he kept that for me. And he said, and I did it twice. And so the fact is, I think that the American people are more broad shouldered and more open minded and more optimistic. Then sometimes what we give them credit for reflect what they reflect, and that's just fine. But, but I am a believer in the good sense and the honest purpose of at least 65, 70 of the American people. And can they be persuaded, especially after this debacle, that we're going to go through, this dystopian carnage that we're going to experience over the next two or three years? Will they be in a place where they can once again consider or return fundamental value?
- [30:59]
Charlie Sykes
Let's switch then to talk about that, because you do see that the next two or three years is going to test, is going to test every guardrail, every sense of decency that we have. So do you have a sense that there is a breaking point? Because, you know, for years there's been that mantra. Well, you know, that they're, you know, this is the breaking point for Republicans with Trump, it never happens. However, you're watching a series of issues where, whether it's immigration, whether it's spending, whether it's, you know, our place in the world, whether it's personal conduct. So give me your sense of, do you see a breaking point or an arc that changes the directory and how will it play out? What is going to be that moment where people go, go, oh my God, what have we done? This is not who we are. This is not where we want to go.
- [31:53]
Mark Rasico
That moment is starting right now. Charlie I've traveled all over the place in Montana, the town halls, the meetings that I started with maybe two and a half years or three years ago, small, very small, have been gradually growing over the course of time, more and more discussions, more and more context with people that are just good, decent, thoughtful people. They don't write letters to the editor, they don't scream in the yell on the street corners, but they know something is desperately wrong. And as A consequence of that, they're looking for what it is that can, can happen politically in their own lives. I met with a young couple yesterday, and I know this is slow progress, but it's the only progress that you can define and actually make is to recommit to the principles of the party in a way that are meaningful.
- [32:50]
Charlie Sykes
Give me, give me an example. Let's be more specific here. Like, so when you meet with them, what is it that is turning their, their view of what's happening?
- [33:00]
Mark Rasico
Well, let's rule of law for a moment, okay? When they learn, and it's not always, they're not always capable, they're working, they're taking care of kids, they're doing grandparents stuff. But when they figure out that Donald Trump defies court orders in a routine basis and that he starts to call into question the very doctrine of separation of powers or the role of the judiciary, when he suggests, like Napoleon, that when he's acting as president, he is without fault and cannot violate the law, when he goes about believe with the things that are going to happen with Medicaid and Medicare. When the people of Montana who live out in these rural areas that live in, on the fields, in the plains and the mountains of Montana, and they figure out that National Public Radio was no longer available to 250,000 of them, why? Because there was some acrimony that developed within the Trump campaign that suggested that this was somehow a medium that ultimately, you know, furthered the interest of the, of the Democrats and the contrary party, and it was against America. Well, those are the people, my people that I live with here. They, they have a huge number of people in these rural areas that are on Medicaid. They have a huge number that are dealing with snap. With the food assistance program gone. Their National Public broadcasting is gone. 30,000 children in Montana will no longer see it or be influenced by it. The alert system that's a part of National Public Radio, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, gone. This is going to leave people hungry with people defying court orders. And who enforces court orders that are defied by Donald J. Trump? None other than the marshals. And who do the marshals work for? They work for the attorney general. And we've seen how that operation is unfolding. So do I think there's going to be a breaking point? I wish we could avoid the grief. I wish we could avoid the anguish. But I have no question in my mind if we keep proceeding at this rate with this kind of insensitivity and this lack of respect for each Other with different thoughts and different parties. And we don't come together, as we did in the beginning, to forge a new program for America that's based upon good sense, compassion, empathy, rule of law, a solid position in the world in terms of world affairs, dependable to the rest of the nation, generous with those where we want to export a democracy, then it's going to fall apart. And do I think a cataclysm like that is possible? Yes. And do I think it can? If it's going to happen? I wish it wouldn't. But it may be the only thing that ultimately ends up bringing about some sobriety to enough of the population to focus upon what we need to do, just like we did in 1787.
- [36:05]
Charlie Sykes
You know, let me follow this up because I think that immigration has become a perfect example of the way this has played out. You know, the Republican Party has become this militantly anti immigrant party, but that people are suddenly realizing, wait, you know, when we see the faces and stories of what's happening, you know, the Alligator Alcatraz, you know, in the Bush era, going back to all of that, you know, George H.W. bush talked about, you know, a kinder, gentler, you know, conservatism. You had compassionate conservatism. And there was a lot of rolling of the eyes about all of that. But what is interesting is watching how that has morphed into this very, very conscious kind of cruelty, the celebration of brutality, which I do think is not consistent with the American values that you're talking about, that the American people might want secure borders, they might want to deal with illegal immigration. They are not willing to celebrate Alligator Alcatraz or the illegal rendition of fathers to foreign countries. And I do think that there is a backlash to all of that, but it is the. And I think that this goes to the point about being excessively online, that there's that world out there on the Internet that might celebrate putting people in cages and feeding them like dogs and having them eaten by alligators and mosquitoes. But I don't think that that is where, where the American people are and it's not where Republicans used to be. And I do, you know, and I think this is what's important about it, because I think you're going to agree with me, most of the Republicans that I've known could have gone either way, even the people who've gone maga, that if somebody had appealed to the better angels of their nature, they would have said, yeah, that's not who we want to be. This is not the kind of people or the country we want to be. And so, you know, what I hear you saying is that you want to find a way to kind of remind them, okay, that's not really the kind of person or country or party you want to morph into, is it?
- [38:08]
Mark Rasico
That's precisely correct. I mean, the soul of America is at risk here and there. It has a number of different subtitles, from the rule of law to obedience to the Constitution, to a recognition of the majesty of this system. If we allow it through our own input of good sense and honest purpose and decency, to be a part of the equation. And if you want to go off on your own and enkindle only those notions or moments or programs that benefit you and help you accumulate power, that's going to be a choice. That's the choice we're going to make. And if people don't see it, and it's our job to help them see it, we obviously can't beat them over the head or coerce them. But there, there was a better day. And most of the people on the planet today remember it, and they remember the stability. Even, you know, when I think about Everett Dirksen, Mike Mansfield, here they were, Republican, Democrat, one, humble one, kind of an entertainer, but extraordinary leaders both. And at the end of the day, what they did was steer us through the first nuclear non proliferation treaty. They steered us through the assassination of John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, through Bobby Kennedy's death, through the Civil Rights act, the Voting Rights act, through Richard Nixon's impeachment, through the 68 Democratic convention. Where are those leaders? And they're not there now. And I know some of these people really well. They're very good, decent people. But you know, John Thune, as much as I love him, he was a great basketball player in high school. You've got to stick your neck out and so do the rest of you, Lisa and Susan, and all of the people that know the difference between right and wrong and what we're saying to them as people with memories of how it is possible to exist within the Republican Party, get back in and start now. Because we have little time before we reach this ultimate abyss. And that's, I think, the challenge of our time. And why am I chasing around the country at 77 years old? It's because I'm deathly afraid of what's going to happen to our country. And if I don't get in fight.
- [40:37]
Charlie Sykes
No, I'm glad you're in the fight. I just want to read one quote from Politico. That when they announced your chairmanship, a quote from one of your senior advisors for our Republican legacy, Chris Vance, who said, we're building a 50 state national committee, basically a shadow version of the party. Maybe at some point we'll form a pact. Right now we are like an advocacy group. Like the NRA is an advocacy group, the Sierra Club, all of these different organizations, they can't say the magic words, elect, donate, that sort of thing. But they can still have a very big political impact by fighting for their ideas. So at this point, you are trying to be the better angels, right? You're fighting for hearts and minds.
- [41:16]
Mark Rasico
We are, we're trying to be honest without being bitter. And frankly, you know, the next opportunity for some influence, for some balance to come back and I'll take this as progress if we change the membership of Congress in either house, to me, that's a significant stride forward. And you know, I, I've been disassembled from, from the Republican Party in Montana at their choice. Not a month. But frankly, there's nothing so liberating as leaving a situation where you now have the liberty to thoughtfully and carefully say what the hell you think.
- [41:58]
Charlie Sykes
No, this is the one thing that people, you know, look, it's disillusioning, it's soul crushing. You lose a lot of friends, you lose a lot of colleagues. But ultimately it's also liberating that you're, you're not locked into all of that. And that is a great gift. Governor Mark Rossico, thank you so, so much for joining me. People can find out about our Republican legacy by going to just Google it.
- [42:23]
Mark Rasico
Our Republican legacy. And it'll lead you right to the right place.
- [42:27]
Charlie Sykes
Okay. And the, the, the list of names is, is, is quite impressive. And the end, the goal is quite ambitious. Thank you so much for joining me. And once again, thank you all for joining me for this episode of to the Contrary podcast. I'm Charlie Sacks. You know why we do this, why we are going to continue to do this, you know, as long. Because now more than ever, it is important to remind ourselves that we are not the crazy ones. Thank you.
- [43:04]
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If you're.
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