← To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes
To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes
Of Ballrooms, Blasphemy, and the Return of Abortion Politics
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- [00:00]
Molly Jong-Fast
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Charlie Sykes
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Charlie Sykes
information@mythsbaby.com Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com I'm Charlie Sykes. Welcome back to the to the Contrary podcast. So the Senate GOP really is proposing spending a billion dollars in taxpayer money on Donald Trump's Ballroom? I still haven't gotten over that and I wrote about that in the newsletter. Donald Trump Gets His Revenge in Indiana. The politics of abortion about to make a big time comeback. By the way, I usually don't talk about polls, but there's some amazing polls about Donald Trump's Jesus post and public opinion about the Pope. I really want to talk about that. And apparently I have been kicked off Twitter and I'm actually kind of okay with that. So we have a lot to get into today. Well, joining us on our podcast today is our good friend Molly John Fast, who is a very busy, you know, celebrity woman. So Molly, in one year you have a bestselling book and is it true you were actually in the movie the Devil Wears Pratu for, like, a minute.
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Molly Jong-Fast
I mean, not for very long, but,
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Charlie Sykes
yes, a minute's a long time.
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Molly Jong-Fast
I'm in there.
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Charlie Sykes
You're on longer than Sydney Sweeney.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yes, I am on longer than Sydney Sweeney that I do have, but Sydney Sweeney is much richer and more successful than I am. But, yes, I have a minute in there, and it's. If you. I would say not a minute. I would say if you do not blink in the Hampton scene. I'm in there.
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Charlie Sykes
You're there. Are you, like, is it a spoiler
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Molly Jong-Fast
alert sitting there talking?
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Charlie Sykes
You're just sitting there with the other beautiful, famous people. You're just, like, hanging out.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yeah. I mean, as much as that's possible. Yes. Are you wearing Prada?
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Charlie Sykes
Are you wearing Prada?
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Molly Jong-Fast
I'm wearing a skirt and a top that I then stole.
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Charlie Sykes
Okay. Okay. Well, that's fair.
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Molly Jong-Fast
I mean, from the filming, because I told them first because I'm not really into stealing. So I said, you know, I really like this. Can I take it with me? And they said, okay. And so I did it. Yeah, I sort of said, yeah, I sort of said. I mean, I said, I really like this. I don't think you're gonna return it. Can I take it with me?
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Charlie Sykes
So did you interact with any of the actors and actors.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Meryl Streep.
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Charlie Sykes
Are any of them, like, nicer than we would? And any of them, like, really much bitchier than we would think?
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Molly Jong-Fast
Meryl Streep is very, very nice and very kind. I got to hang out with Jenna Bush, who's lovely, and I. Yeah. Who's such a nice person. And then I also got to hang out with the incredible, incredible actor whose name now escapes me. Who's in Wallander now. What is his name? Brilliant Shakespearean actor.
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Charlie Sykes
Very famous.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Kenneth Branagh. And Kenneth Branagh, actually.
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Charlie Sykes
I'm impressed with that.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yeah. And he was really smart and interesting, and it was a delight to just sit there and talk to him. So I had a very good time.
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Charlie Sykes
So I really appreciate you're hanging out with Meryl Streep and Kenneth Branagh, and now you're slumming with me. So I really do. I really, really do appreciate that.
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Molly Jong-Fast
I think hanging out might be an overstatement, but I was very lucky to get to spend a tiny bit of time with them. And Kenneth Branagh was really smart and nice.
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Charlie Sykes
Well, I would assume so. So this actually leads into what I wanted to talk about, because I think that there's a much higher probability that you will be invited to the White House. Ballroom, if it ever gets built. I know that I will never get invited to that ballroom. But is it just me or is this like the stupidest political. Yes, it is. Is this the stupidest political play in our stupid political world? Can I just play this little montage? I think it was with CNN or all the Times. And I know people have seen this before, but, you know, sometimes you gotta wallow in a story. Here's Donald Trump, you know, you know, telling the public that, don't worry, my, my, my, my fat cat cronies are gonna pay for this. You're not gonna have to pay for this. Okay, so we can play this. And I'm paying for it. I'm paying for it. The country is not. We're donating a 400 million dollar ballroom myself and donors are giving them free of charge for nothing. We, we did this. No charge to the taxpayer whatsoever. Rich people and people are putting up the money. Zero taxpayer dollars. They get to $250 million and it will be, I think, the finest. It's about 300 million, approximately $400 million. I think I'll do it for less, but it's 400. I should do it for less. I will do it for less, but just in case I say 400. So, Molly, honestly, when I saw that they were proposing a billion dollars in taxpayer money, my first reaction was, no, this cannot be true. Yeah, your reaction to this?
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Molly Jong-Fast
Well, first of all, it's in reconciliation. So what it means is that you're gonna have. Republican senators are gonna have to vote for it. So if you're a Republican senator facing reelection, if you're Dan Sullivan from the state of Alaska running for reelection against Mary Patola, who is in fact winning or at least polling way ahead, and you have to now say thumbs up or thumbs down on a billion dollars in taxpayer money to Donald Trump for a ballroom because of something that happened at a party that would never be held in the White House to begin with.
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Charlie Sykes
Yes. Yeah, the White House Correspondent's Dinner is never going to be held in the White House.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Never.
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Charlie Sykes
It's a non sequitur.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Right.
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Charlie Sykes
So is there any Democrat. You mentioned Alaska. Well, I mean, you could play this in Ohio as well. And by the way, want to talk about that race too. Is there any Democrat in America that would not use this in an ad that so and so voted to spend a billion dollars of your money on Donald Trump Ballroom while they were also voting to cut. And then you just run through health care, childcare, just something. Is there literally any Democrat in America. If there's a Democrat in America that did not use this in an ad, they ought to be fired for malfeasance, for incompetence.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Fetterman, who is the worst Democrat, will probably change parties, but that's it.
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Charlie Sykes
You think so? You think that the Fed. Yeah. Fetterman is like, he's dead man walking. Although I have to tell you, I am old enough to remember when there were a lot of progressives and some never Trumpers who were all like, got the tingle up their leg about John Fetterman, you know, big mistake, big mistake. No kidding.
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Molly Jong-Fast
No bueno. Yeah.
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Charlie Sykes
Now, speaking of the midterm elections and you know, Donald Trump got his revenge in Indiana, which again reminds us of something that we have known for a long time, which is that he owns the Republican Party, that if you buck Donald Trump, you're headed off to political oblivion. So you and I have had this conversation over the last 10 years. You know, when will Republicans stand up against Donald Trump? Well, they did in Indiana and now they've, you know, they're on the ash heap of history. I mean, a principled ashe.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Well, five of seven. Five of seven are on the ash heap of history. But I think what's interesting about it is that it shows that if you are going to run as a Republican, you have to both run as MAGA and also somehow be more popular than a president who is underwater on everything more than he's ever been.
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Charlie Sykes
Right. And is likely to do so. So on the midterm elections, Sherrod Brown, no surprise is the Republic is the Democratic nominee in Ohio where Democrats actually have a non crazy chance to do much better. It's been a long time since Democrats have won in Ohio. They have a very strong candidate for governor. Who would be the first woman governor of Ohio. Sherrod Brown's been around forever and he's running against a Republican incumbent who's never actually been elected. A guy name John went to Houston. Husted.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yeah.
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Charlie Sykes
Have you seen the first point? Yes, he's appointed and to fill J.D. vance's seat. And I think one of the questions that a lot of people have had has been will the Epstein case, is it gone away? We've been distracted. Will it be in the midterms? Let's play, you know, Sherrod Brown's ad that he launched, which is really kind of his opening shot in the general election campaign. So let's play it. Of all 535 members of Congress, who's taken the most money from associates of Jeffrey Epstein John Houston, that's who. In fact, Houston's taken over $116,000 from one of Epstein's closest friends and co conspirators. And last year took a maximum donation from him just weeks before voting to block the release of the Epstein files. John Husted, who's he really working for? I'm sure Brown and I approve this message. All right, so Molly Epstein back there. And I think honestly, you get the sense that that's kind of a stand in for the whole out of touch elitism. I think the ballroom and the Epstein thing, there's kind of a connection there, right? There's a vibe connection.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Well, what's interesting about, I think Epstein, this Epstein ad, is that you really do see that. That is, that is where Donald Trump started to lose. People remember the MAGA base started to fracture on Epstein. That was when you lost Alex Jones. That was when you lost Tucker Carlson. And those people remember reflecting. That's right. And they're reflecting the views of their, of the people who watch their shows. Right? They're not. These are people like the reason Ben Shapiro, I mean, there are a lot of reasons why Ben Shapiro is in, is in huge decline. But one of the reasons is because he did not listen. He was not reflecting the views of his, of her, his listeners. And so I do think that you're seeing these. Epstein is a big issue for a lot of people because remember, Donald Trump ran in 2016 on QAnon on this idea that he was going to end child sex trafficking. It was one of the central sort of lies of maga. And so to have it reappeared in the, you know, in the third act on the wall. You know, I'm getting a little literary here, but the point is it pulls back to that central thread of maga, which was the outsider was going to come in and clean house. And instead the outsider is the insider. He has no. And you know, we're still in a world with like huge anti incumbent sentiments. Huge anti incumbent sentimen. And here we have Donald Trump. He is the incumbent. There's no one for him to run against. He is president and Republicans control the House and the Senate.
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Charlie Sykes
Well, and also it is interesting, one of the questions you have is that we always ask, is there anything that he could do that would antagonize his base? And if we're talking about his really hardcore mega base, the answer is no. Accept that when you have Marjorie Taylor Greene breaking with him, you see some cracks. Did you see that incredible Washington Post ABC poll on the Pope and the Jesus stuff. I don't usually like to spend a lot of time on all that, but these numbers are amazing. This was a poll insane conducted. I mean, you're talking about a 90% number. Let me just, like, spoiler alert, go right to this. Nearly. And because you never. You wouldn't have 90% of Americans agreeing on the fact that there's a moon or what color the moon is.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yeah.
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Charlie Sykes
Nearly nine in ten Americans express a negative reaction to Trump posting an image appearing to depict himself as Jesus. 90%, including 69% who expressed a strongly negative reaction. This is the ABC News Washington Post poll. Nine in 10 Protestants have a negative reaction, including 68% who are strongly negative. White Evangelicals, one of Trump's most loyal groups. Also overwhelmingly negative. 87% negative, including 61%, which, by the way, explains why Trump took it down, although when he tried to explain that he was a doctor. Also, the numbers would suggest that the Pope, Pope Leo, is much, much more popular than Donald Trump. And yet Donald Trump keeps picking fights with the Pope. So this is one area where I'm sensing another crack where his reptilian instinct failed him.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think he quite understands Catholicism. This is the understatement of the year. And I'm not sure he understands what a big deal the Pope is. But also, this is not a normal Pope, this American Pope, which is. He's a Chicago Pope, which, if you're an American, it's pretty exciting. If you're an American Catholic, you know, this is a guy who is now the Pope. He's the boss, and I think it's a big deal. So to go to war with him when he has these favorabilities, which are, like, nutty, because he's a religious leader and because he does not take, you know, his most, you know, his controversial. The stuff that Trump is getting into fights with him about. And Trump, if you go on Trump's Truth Social, he has a lot to say about the Pope, and he is constantly tirating about the Pope. The stuff he's getting into fights with the Pope about are like, the Pope says the church does not think we should have nukes. And Trump is like, don't try to make fun of me. And it's like, but Trump is trying to prevent the Iranians. At least he's saying he's trying to prevent the Iranians from getting nukes.
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Charlie Sykes
We'll come back to Iran in a moment.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yeah, right. But I mean, that's what he's saying. So what are you Fighting with the Pope for who's much more popular than you are.
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Charlie Sykes
Well, also, and I think you put your finger on it, this is not a normal Pope. This is an American Pope who speaks English, who speaks to American Catholics, who
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Molly Jong-Fast
likes, based on all of his credit
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Charlie Sykes
and all of his criticism, I mean, comes from the Christian faith. When you listen to the Pope, what you hear is like, yeah, he's expressing the gospel, which most Christians will recognize. And then Donald Trump attacks him for saying things. And it's like, wait, you know, what would Jesus do? What would Jesus sound like? And not like Donald Trump, more like this guy. Okay, so Molly, we're in this dangerous era where everything could change by the time this podcast is posted. But we had another Taco Tuesday. We had, okay, did you watch or listen to Marco Rubio's press conference where he's basically saying, okay, epic fury is over, the war is over. Now it's all Operation Freedom and Operation Freedom is our entire. And then within like five seconds, Trump throws him under the bus. Operation Freedom announced on Monday, canceled on Tuesday. One page reports of this, one page taco document. So where are we at on the Iran war?
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Molly Jong-Fast
The war is over during trading hours, but not when the markets are closed. Then the war is going. Look, I mean, you don't, you know, it's a guy who doesn't believe anything fighting a war that he does not know how he got into, that he never sold to the American people. That has made gas significantly more expensive. What is the thing Americans hate paying more for gas. I mean, it's just, he's gotten himself into just such an unforced error. And the joke is, had Donald Trump just not done any of this, had he just done the anti democratic stuff, had he just gone after our norms and institutions, he'd probably be polling in the 50s.
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Charlie Sykes
Oh, I think, I think you're right. See, this is the key, I think, is that almost everything that's happening is self inflicted. They're not outside events. It's like, okay, Mr. President, what is your biggest political challenge? Well, it's affordability. So what does he do? He goes to war with Iran. Now, he clearly thought this was gonna be quick and easy. And now I think at the end of the, look, whatever happens, and we don't know whatever happens, he's gonna declare victory. But I think that people are gonna look at this and go, well, wait, we did this entire war. There's no regime change. The nuclear deal's going to look something like what President Obama had in his Iran deal. You may reopen the Strait of Hormuz. But the Strait of Hormuz was already open before you attacked her. So exactly what was the point of all of this?
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Molly Jong-Fast
And the point is nothing. The point is nothing. And Donald Trump still wants to go after Cub. So the question is, we've got this military that's stretched very thin. We've got gas that's very expensive. We've got American people who just want no more foreign wars, and we've got a president who's totally unattached to reality. And I think sort of the only good part of this scenario, because otherwise it's just awful, is that you have a Republican Party that if they break with him, they cannot get reelected. But if they, if they go with him, they also probably can't win in states where that's less than an R +20 or an R +15. I mean, and I think that's gonna be a real problem for Republicans.
- [19:51]
Charlie Sykes
No, it is. And I think what happened in Indiana was also kind of a warning shot for those of you thinking of being independent. Don't do it. If you want to have a career in Republican politics. Look, I mean, when I, when I said, you know, that you go into political oblivion, there's a certain release to being free. Not having to, you know, not having to go on like Scott Jennings on CNN and make a complete ass of yourself on a nightly basis and not have to vote for things. What is, what for?
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Molly Jong-Fast
What is Scott? Who is Scott Jennings for? Because if you're maga, you're like, this guy's not really one of us. I mean, who is he for?
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Charlie Sykes
Scott Jennings? I mean, he's living the dream. Look, I mean, you know, for a certain class of people, being on television is like cocaine, right? Like irrelevant. I'm being paid money. I get to talk. And, and there's a, there's a certain point, like, we all get that. It's like. And then. But what I don't understand is, you know, don't you have like a shred of self respect? I mean, that you have to go out there and say things that you have to. You either know that they're not true or you're so gone that you just have lost touch with reality. I mean, the fact that he's dropping f bombs on this guy looks like he's 18 years old is an indication that maybe there's a little bit of threat.
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Molly Jong-Fast
I mean, the kids are young.
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Charlie Sykes
Yeah, but this is not helping cnn. I mean, I know that cnn, I mean, look, we talked about this. The other day, it seemed clear to me that if CNN was not preparing for the Ellison Bari Weiss takeover that they would have shit canned Jennings for that. But it's like he's too MAGA to fail now, right?
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yeah, I mean, it'll be interesting. I feel like when you watch CBS and we see the numbers that they're, you know, they're going to under 4 million for their nightly news broadcast, which is pretty unusual. It's very easy to scorch your credibility. It's very hard to get it back. Just like gas prices. These are things you can't. There's no undo button for this stuff.
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Charlie Sykes
No, there is. There is no. And it's kind of sad because there are so many good journalists there. There are solid journalists. There's such an incredible tradition that's there. And I actually, I don't know. And people are. I'll get pushback on this. I actually feel kind of sorry for Barry Weiss because I also understand that somebody gives you $150 million and puts you in charge of CBS, people are gonna say, yeah, that's great now. But the reality is that no matter how smart you are, there are some jobs that maybe are a little bit further over your skis. You know, that the world's best businessman, if you made him the general, you know, the head coach of the Green Bay packers or the New York jets, maybe they wouldn't be a good fit. You know, you can really be a really smart guy, but it doesn't mean you can be a brain surgeon and you can be a columnist, but doesn't mean you can actually run an entire network. Right. I mean, these skills don't necessarily line up.
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Molly Jong-Fast
And it's also another place where a woman has been brought in to manage decline. Like there's no set. I don't. I mean, look, I am not a fan of berry waste, but I do understand that this is a declining model. Right. That television's declining model. And so she's being brought in at the very last, at the 11th hour to try to sort of do something ideological that they think will do more for them tax cut wise than. I mean, like, for example, the goal of putting her in there has to do with elevating Republican politicians. It's more of a campaign donation ultimately than it is about making news. And I think that she doesn't think
- [23:40]
Charlie Sykes
of it that way.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Yeah, right. But that has to be soul crushing in the moments when she's alone with her thoughts and she realizes that this is actually a partisan play and not about news at all.
- [23:55]
Charlie Sykes
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- [25:02]
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- [25:35]
Charlie Sykes
I think that some of these times you get caught up in the rush and the excitement of what you're doing and the and maybe the hubris. It's only later as you look back on it and realize what was I thinking here? She may have a certain vision of what her role is, but it's pretty obvious to people on the outside that it is something different. Okay, so let's talk about the politics of abortion. Now what was interesting is that I remember thinking, just sort of randomly last week, what happened to the abortion issue in the midterm elections? I mean, remember when it dominated everything after Roe vs. Wade? And then suddenly this week, what happens? We have this appeals court ruling that bans the abortion pill basically nationwide. Now you know who really, really thinks this is a political nightmare? Donald J. Trump. Donald J. Trump is in a very interesting position because I think that he still has the reptilian instinct to know that the abortion issue is not an asset for Republicans in swing districts. And banning the abortion pill nationwide, which is, would really be a political disaster. On the other hand, he can't, you know, say that because now he's got the pro life movement, you know, the people from Susan B. Anthony who are
- [26:56]
Molly Jong-Fast
saying they're really mad.
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Charlie Sykes
He's now caught between kind of a rock and a hard place. So give me your sense of the return of abortion politics. You know, Trump and the Republicans just want it to go away. They want a slow one. They don't want anything to happen. I don't know.
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Molly Jong-Fast
So this is the fifth Circuit. This is very conservative fifth Circuit once again making trouble for the Supreme Court. And so the fifth Circuit says no more methapristone, no more abortion pills. They are taking an FDA approved drug off the market, which is, there's not a ton of precedent for that. They're taking it off the market because they don't like what it does, which in itself, like, think about it, well, then we're gonna go for cancer treatments, we're gonna take Botox off to take SSRIs off the market. Like where does it end? So that's number one. That's a big problem. When you're a pharmaceutical company, they'll never
- [27:51]
Charlie Sykes
take Viagra off the market for sure.
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Molly Jong-Fast
Not. So when you're a pharmaceutical company, that's a big problem. Number one, then you have the problem. So Alito says, overturns the stay, says you can have, you have eight days. That means they're going to hear it on the shadow docket. So here's the problem for Republicans. Either they hear it and they say, like with SB8, they say, okay, let's do it. Like no more abortion pills. You have to go in, in person. No more telehealth. I think what they'll do is something that splits the baby. So they'll say you have to come in person if you want an abortion bill. But, but say, they say they take the very lenient and they say we're not going to weigh in on this. It's drug. Okay, so that's one possibility that will be just a disaster for Trump because the anti choice crew will be furious and they'll be like, you need to take it off the market now. Which he can't do, but maybe he could do something.
- [28:47]
Charlie Sykes
They really want him to use the, his power over the fda that the, you don't need the court action, that you simply Donald Trump calls in the appeal and drugs. Right, Right.
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Molly Jong-Fast
But it's bad. Any number of reasons why that's a bad idea. But it will also be, I mean, if he does that, which he could theoretically do, he's made dumber decisions this week, probably he will then have a base. Then all of a sudden, people will not be able to get abortion six months before the midterms. And all of a sudden the people who were like, well, Donald Trump didn't overturn Roe v. Wade because I can still get abortion pills in the mail, will be like, oh, wait a second. And so that is the problem with this decision, with this ruling, is either any which way it brings abortion back into the mainstream. It makes it the topic of conversation, which is what Donald Trump doesn't want. It's bad for Republicans. And also remember this, the Supreme Court is very ideological. This is Supreme Court that overturned Roe v. Wade. This is six, three court. So you could see, and there are three members of this court who are deeply, deeply anti choice, Alito, Thomas and Barrett. And you could see a world where they're like, no, let's just take it off. Let's just do it. This is our. What can they do? We have this job forever.
- [30:06]
Charlie Sykes
Well, I think that's a good analysis. So one of the reasons why I think that the issue had lost some of its salience, which was a little bit of a surprise, was because of the abortion pill, was because in many ways, the abortion pill became the slack. It picked up the slack. So if you live in a state like New York or California, the Supreme Court actually had no effect. You were still able to get abortions. But also if you lived in a state that was a red state that that might have banned abortion, you could still be able to get the pills.
- [30:42]
Molly Jong-Fast
The pills.
- [30:43]
Charlie Sykes
From the point of view of the, you know, pro, the, you know, pro life, you know, anti, anti choice movement, they're thinking, well, in a state like Louisiana, we've said that abortion is illegal, that life begins at conception. Right. And yet someone from Louisiana then can violate that law by getting the pill. I mean, that is the logic, but it's also the dilemma faced by the court, which very explicitly in overturning Roe v. Wade, said the decisions should be left to these states. But again, does that mean that the state of Louisiana then has a veto power over every other state in the court?
- [31:24]
Molly Jong-Fast
Well, and we know from this Supreme Court that they are happy to be hypocrites. And so we certainly could see them. I mean, they've done it with Any number of decisions. I mean, where they say, you know, it's this way for this one and not for that one. So you could see a world where they say, you know, we've decided that whatever, that this is too dangerous to be on the market despite the fact that it's been in the market for 20 years. Or I mean, they could do anything. I mean, what we did, what they did with Roe v. Wade was like, you know, they said the state's rights, except, you know, so I mean, I don't, I don't. And even like, you know, they've already taken a few fakie cases like the birthright citizenship cases, the cases where they were like, look, we're not so bad. So they, you know, they've also done, they killed voting rights last week. I mean, this crew is not, they're not on the up and up is my mind.
- [32:20]
Charlie Sykes
Well, let's, you know, on the abortion issue, from Trump's point of view, the best case scenario is simply delay, that the thing just drags on and on. But you can certainly imagine why the pro life movement is very, very frustrated because they felt the wind at their back after the repeal of Roe versus Wade. And there was a lot talk about having Congress, a unified Republican Congress, pass a nationwide abortion ban. And that went nowhere. So I think there was a recognition. And yet this ruling on the abortion pill is in effect a nationwide abortion ban. So politics are my. Also I think the polling is, and I don't have it in front of me, I'm guessing that there is a sense that, that someone in their house who makes this decision doesn't go to a clinic. This really feels like a private decision by a woman. So it's the worst case scenario politically. So I think this may be one of the sleeper issues. This may be one of the sleeper issues in the midterm. Do you agree?
- [33:24]
Molly Jong-Fast
I mean, I think this and the gas prices are going to be the two things that just destroy them in the midterms because the gas prices. But also, and there are all these cuts that are coming after the midterms. Trump has in the bbb, there are all these different cuts that kick in right after the midterms. So that's another thing you have to think about, like, as unpopular as he is now, he hasn't done a lot of the major safety net cuts that he will, that he has coming down the pike. So I do think, yes, this is certainly a problem for him. I think the abortion pill stuff is just, I mean, I don't know, we'll see how they do. If they can punt it, then maybe. And, you know, this is Supreme Court that cares a lot about Trump. And, you know, they're very partisan and they want to win elections. So maybe they punt it and maybe they say, oh, look, maybe they do what they did with birthright citizenship and say, we're very reasonable.
- [34:22]
Charlie Sykes
Well, let's go back to where we started in the midterms. And I agree with you on, on the gas price issue, particularly that Republicans are telling themselves they wanna run on things like the Trump accounts for babies. They wanna run no taxes on tips, no taxes on overtime, the tax cuts for the middle class. And then what do they do? They drop this giant turd bomb into the middle of that campaign by making them vote for the Billion Dollar Ballroom. And this is where if you are Republican, you go, you know, it feels like this endless. The price you pay for your absolute allegiance to Donald Trump just keeps on getting higher and higher because there are things that they would like to talk about, and yet he keeps making them talk about other things.
- [35:14]
Molly Jong-Fast
He is really focused on that ballroom. I've never seen him so focused on anything except he is really focused on this granite path that he made in the Rose Gardens and the Garden of Heroes. There's some other building things.
- [35:27]
Charlie Sykes
Interested in the Arc de Trump, too?
- [35:28]
Molly Jong-Fast
The Arc de Trump, yeah. But, you know, this is Marie Antoinette kind of stuff, right? We're building while the people can't eat or they can't get health care, or they can't get milk and everything's getting more expensive. I think this is really. I think this is really a problem. And I think what I'm going to be watching for is what is the number? And again, I think this happens after the midterms. I don't think this is for now, but I'll be really curious. What is the number where Republicans break with Trump? Like, what is the number where they say, I think there's a number? I mean, I don't know if it's 20%, but at some point you're gonna see them be like, well, we have to win elections some point?
- [36:09]
Charlie Sykes
Well, we will see. I don't anticipate anything before the midterm elections. And keep in mind that also he's created a culture where Republicans never actually lose elections. Right. The elections are always stolen. Which is a topic for another day. Because, you know, if people have not been paying attention, you know, Donald Trump is still at ramming speed in trying to not just relitigate 2020, but setting the stage for messing around with anything that challenges his power. Molly Jong Fast, thank you so much for all of your time and your insight. And I really have to go see the movie now. I really do. And by the way, if people want to know why I got kicked off at Twitter, I was going to talk about it, but I'm going to write about it in my newsletter and so
- [36:53]
Molly Jong-Fast
everyone needs to subscribe. I have to figure out how I'm
- [36:56]
Charlie Sykes
going to describe it because I'm not going to try to play the victim card here. I'm really not. Because honestly, or play sour grapes, but honestly, I should have done it a long time ago.
- [37:10]
Molly Jong-Fast
All right, well, I'm excited to read.
- [37:12]
Charlie Sykes
Yeah, I will. I will talk about it. I feel a little. A little ashamed. Thank you. Thank you for your time and thank you for listening to this episode of to the Contrary podcast. And remember, we are not the crazy ones.
- [37:35]
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Charlie Sykes
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