To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes

Episode: Paul Rieckhoff: Trump, War Crimes, and the Afghan Betrayal

Date: December 2, 2025
Guest: Paul Rieckhoff, founder of Independent Vets of America and host of the Independent Americans podcast

Overview

This episode grapples with tumultuous recent events involving Donald Trump’s cabinet, accusations of war crimes in Venezuela, and the fate of Afghan allies amid a climate of nativist policy and political upheaval. Charlie and Paul Rieckhoff dissect current and emerging crises—from war crimes investigations to threats against vulnerable refugee communities—while underscoring the vital importance of moral clarity, accountability, and the defense of American values.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cabinet Scandals and Unfitness for Office

Timestamps: 01:59–05:39

• Charlie reviews a litany of recent Trump cabinet crises: Pam Bondi's legal defeats, Kristi Noem’s defiance of court orders, and damning reports about Kash Patel.
• Pete Hegseth is spotlighted as the embodiment of Trump’s culture war strategy.
  • Rieckhoff: “He’s radical, overtly political, extreme, unqualified, sloppy and very, very arrogant… This is a firm, dangerous manifestation of all that.” (04:36)
  • Questions Hegseth’s honor and integrity, noting his refusal to swear loyalty to the Constitution over Trump during hearings.

2. Policy Fallout: Afghan Refugees Targeted

Timestamps: 06:07–13:29

• After the shooting of two National Guardsmen by an Afghan refugee, Trump seizes on the tragedy to impose a blanket ban on Afghan immigration and asylum.
  • Rieckhoff condemns Trump’s zero nuance, “Stephen Miller agenda,” and points out the grave national security risk: “You have ensured that nobody’s gonna stand with our troops again, period.” (08:57)
• The shift from moral obligation to “collective guilt” is described as shameful and counter to bipartisan traditions of supporting Afghan allies.
• Rieckhoff shares stories of Afghan and Iraqi interpreters who became successful Americans, now living in fear.
  • “He’s settled here…paying taxes, doing an incredible job. And that’s the overwhelming majority of them who went through a very rigorous [process].” (13:05)
• The larger theme: the militarization of us-vs-them politics, consistently weaponized against non-white immigrants and military partners.

3. War Crimes Allegations: The Venezuela Boat Strike

Timestamps: 15:21–26:29

• A critical story emerges: After an initial strike on a suspected narco boat (September 2), a second, fatal attack is ordered to “kill everybody.” Hegseth is implicated as having issued a direct “kill them all” order.
  • Charlie: “This seems to me to be a black and white case of… war crime or flat out murder.” (16:25)
  • Rieckhoff compares “double tap” tactics to atrocities forbidden since WWII, noting both the moral and practical (loss of intelligence) stakes:
    “You get no intelligence from a dead guy… The biggest value is to capture them.” (17:15)
  • Warns the boat strike could become “this generation's Abu Ghraib, this generation’s My Lai.” (18:12)
• Trump’s calculated political distancing from Hegseth indicates acute risk.
• Hegseth’s fate becomes a bellwether for accountability; military and Congressional investigations are underway.

4. Congressional Responsibility and War Powers

Timestamps: 19:38–24:03

• Congress shows signs of awakening, with both House and Senate Armed Services Committees launching probes.
• The existence of videotaped evidence makes evasion far harder.
  • Rieckhoff: “When there’s documentation, it’s different…there should be a reckoning.” (20:23)
• Trump’s pattern: act aggressively, overwhelm opposition, force Congress to react.
• The maneuvering includes anticipated strikes on Venezuela and attempts to discredit voices of caution in Congress (e.g., Mark Kelly, Alyssa Slotkin).

5. Media and Narrative Control

Timestamps: 24:03–28:57

• Trump may not own the mainstream narrative but controls the story for his base via “a propaganda machine”—Fox News, Newsmax, Twitter, and compliant Pentagon press replacements.
  • Rieckhoff: “They love this shit. They love the drug boats, they love Hegseth.” (27:54)
• Despite public skepticism (only 29% support Venezuela strikes), cabinet radicals remain in place. No tangible accountability yet.

6. Military Culture, Whistleblowers, and Illegal Orders

Timestamps: 29:51–41:56

• Discussion about the potential for whistleblowers: an admiral resigned post-strike, six Democrats released videos reminding troops not to follow illegal orders.
  • Rieckhoff: “The most damning and the most important things are…why did the SOCOM commander resign?...those insiders…are the most important.” (30:15)
• The expectation: soon, someone (like Vindman) will step forward to testify.
• Doubt lingers: past whistleblower moments haven’t swayed Trump’s base or prevented re-escalation.
  • Charlie: “We have had so many...absolutely riveting testimony…none of it's worked. And this is one of the puzzles of our time.” (33:11)
• The military’s basic code—refuse illegal orders such as executing wounded prisoners—is under stress.
  • Rieckhoff: “The most basic 18-year-old, 17-year-old private knows you don’t kill wounded, period. And that's what this is.” (41:51)

7. Venezuela: Are We Already at War?

Timestamps: 42:00–43:40

• Consensus: US forces are already in active operations against Venezuela; the infrastructure for more aggressive action is in place.
• Trump is waiting for a “Gulf of Tonkin moment” to justify escalation. Congressional oversight is lacking, with Trump taking advantage of a short session.
• Rieckhoff: “The table is set, and it's been set for a couple weeks now…more likely than not, they're hitting something before Christmas.” (43:23)

8. The Sellout of Ukraine and America’s Global Debt

Timestamps: 43:40–47:43

• Trump pushes for Ukraine to capitulate, motivated by personal and cronyist interests.
• The real beneficiary: China, which passively enjoys watching the US and Europe’s resources and focus drained.
• Rieckhoff highlights Ukraine’s resilience and the cynical amorality of Trump’s 28-point “peace” plan.
  • Rieckhoff: “Ask yourself if you were living in Ukraine…would you just give away Texas or Maine? The otherism that Trump has allowed people to entertain is maybe most concerning to me.” (46:18)

9. Final Thoughts: Accountability, Veterans in Politics, and the Work Ahead

Timestamps: 47:43–49:08

• Rieckhoff closes by emphasizing the importance of independent, veteran-led civic engagement.
  • He highlights the Tennessee 7th special election, where an independent veteran could impact War Powers and defense debates.
  • Rieckhoff: “We could have 100 [independent veterans in Congress] going into 2026, Charlie…that person becomes a fulcrum to slow down or at least force hard questions...” (48:31)
• Charlie’s reminder: “We are not the crazy ones.” (49:08)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Afghan Allies:
  • “With this statement, you have ensured that nobody’s gonna stand with our troops again, period.” —Paul Rieckhoff (08:57)
• On War Crimes:
  • “This is the 2025 equivalent of putting two more in their head…you get no intelligence value from a dead guy.” —Paul Rieckhoff (17:05)
• On Trump’s Governing Style:
  • “He can do whatever he wants with the most powerful military… and nothing’s stopping him.” —Paul Rieckhoff (24:25)
• On Congressional Cowardice:
  • “Congress has been behaving like a potted plant.” —Charlie Sykes (19:38)
• On America’s Global Standing:
  • “The otherism that Trump has allowed people to entertain is maybe most concerning to me…Trump does not speak for us. Especially on Ukraine.” —Paul Rieckhoff (46:18, 47:43)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:59: Cabinet trouble roundup; Hegseth's fitness
• 06:07: Afghan refugee ban after National Guard shooting
• 15:21: The Venezuela boat strike and war crimes debate
• 19:38: Congressional response and War Powers dilemma
• 24:03: Trump narrative control and propaganda
• 29:51: Whistleblowers, illegal orders, and military culture
• 42:00: War with Venezuela—already underway?
• 43:40: The Ukraine “sellout” and international implications
• 47:43: Closing thoughts; the rise of independent veteran candidates

Recap

This episode offers a critical, unvarnished look at the erosion of democratic norms, military ethics, and America’s international credibility amid the chaos of Trump’s second presidency. Charlie Sykes and Paul Rieckhoff argue for vigilance, accountability, and a renewed insistence on American ideals—reminding listeners that, in the face of cynicism and extremism, “we are not the crazy ones.”