Podcast Summary: To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes

Episode: “Paula Kerger: PBS is Not Going Anywhere”

Date: September 7, 2025
Host: Charlie Sykes
Guest: Paula Kerger, President & CEO, PBS

Overview

This episode addresses the unprecedented crisis facing public media in the U.S. following Congress’s decision to withdraw $1.1 billion in funding from public broadcasting and the disbanding of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Charlie Sykes interviews Paula Kerger, the longest-serving President and CEO of PBS, to discuss what led to this moment, the ramifications for PBS and its affiliates, the politics behind the defunding, and the future sustainability of public broadcasting without federal support.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Context: Congressional Defunding Crisis

• Background: Congress and the President have stripped PBS and NPR of all public funding—an unprecedented move that affects 330 PBS affiliates and 249 NPR affiliates.

  • “Did you ever think that you'd be in this position right now, heading public broadcasting at a time when the President and the Congress have stripped you of all public funding?” – Charlie Sykes [01:43]

• Magnitude of Loss:

  • $1.1 billion withdrawn (about $550 million annually), funds previously approved and expected for October, giving only three months to manage the deficit.
  • “Not three years, but three months to figure out how we're going to, you know, close that very significant funding gap.” – Paula Kerger [02:42]

2. Political Process & Perception of Public Media

• Historically, threats to defund PBS/NPR were often walked back due to bipartisan support, especially for rural stations.

• This time, last-minute political maneuvers led to a failed defense, surprising even seasoned advocates:

  • “We thought that we had the votes… The most painful was on the Senate side… there was a pause in activity. Clearly, there were a lot of discussions behind the scenes… and we lost again.” – Paula Kerger [04:31]

• Conflation of TV and Radio in Political Discourse:

  • Defunding was framed as a response to ‘biased media,’ with the White House press release focusing more on NPR, but PBS included as collateral.
  • “I think that this was an attack on public media, TV and radio… why we have ended up in the place that we are right now is really fully difficult to understand.” – Paula Kerger [08:48]

3. Impact on Local Stations and National Infrastructure

• Rural and Vulnerable Station Crisis:

  • Federal dollars are only about 15% of aggregate funding but can be up to 56% for individual, mostly rural, stations.
  • Most at risk: small and rural affiliates providing unique services (e.g., emergency alerts in Alaska).

• Services at Risk:

  • Loss of backbone functions (emergency alerts, educational programming, local debates, and ag reporting).
  • Stations may need to consolidate, share services, or in some cases, close down.

• Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB) Disbandment:

  • CPB’s role: acted as intermediary for federal funding, governance, and provided key infrastructure/services (music licensing, satellite systems).
  • Its disbandment leaves PBS scrambling to rebuild funding mechanisms and oversight.
  • “Without the federal appropriation, the corporation no longer has a reason to exist… So they will, in fact, sunset at the end of this year.” – Paula Kerger [12:38]

4. Programming and Near-Term Content Outlook

• Flagship Content Secure for Now:

  • Major series (e.g., Ken Burns’ 12-hour “American Revolution”) are completed and will air as planned.
  • “Ken's series on the American Revolution… is, I think, one of the greatest gifts that we can give our country as we anticipate the celebration of the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.” – Paula Kerger [20:31]

• Children’s Programming Crisis:

  • As of May 1, U.S. Dept. of Education funding for PBS children’s content also abruptly cut, leaving projects like “Weather Hunters” (Al Roker’s science series) scrambling for completion funds.

• Future Programming:

  • In the short-term, viewers may not notice drastic changes; longer-term, fewer and more curated projects, heavier reliance on library content, and some delays/shortening of series.

5. Survival Strategy: Private Funding Imperative

• Immediate Action:

  • PBS working with foundations (Knight, MacArthur, etc.), and the Public Media Company, to create emergency “runway” funds for at-risk stations.
  • Dues were reduced for member stations to reflect lost federal revenue.

• Call to The Public:

  • Paula stresses urgency and the necessity for both large and small private contributions.
  • “Most of our stations, the largest percentage of money that they receive is from lots of small contributions of people that are members.” – Paula Kerger [25:32]

• Challenges:

  • Sustainability of increased public donations post-crisis is uncertain.
  • Reliance on a few billionaires would undermine PBS’s “public” mission and pose reputational/ethical risks.

6. The “Necessity” Argument for Public Media

• Charlie’s Devil’s Advocate:

  • Questions whether public broadcasting is still necessary in a diverse media landscape (cable, YouTube, streaming, etc.).

• Paula’s Response:

  • Commercial “educational” channels have drifted; unique PBS focus on educational content, public service, and rigorous standards.
  • “If your goal at the end of the day is to derive maximum profits, you're going to make different decisions than if your goal is public service… We're not in the same business. We just happen to use the same tools.” – Paula Kerger [29:23]

• Importance of Mission:

  • Cites unique role in children’s education and hard-hitting, nuanced public affairs programming unavailable elsewhere (example “Deadlock” series).

7. Independence and Public Accountability

• Liberation from Government Funding?
  • Sykes asks whether losing federal money removes political constraints.
  • Kerger emphasizes PBS’s unflagging commitment to accountability, editorial integrity, and serving diverse viewpoints—federal dollars or not.
  • “I think we should be accountable. I think we always should be thinking about how do we bring multiple voices forward. I think that's the challenge in our country right now – people are self selecting what media they want to watch because they want their own opinions reflected back to them.” – Paula Kerger [35:51]

8. Call to Action & Personal Reflection

• Support Your Local Station:

  • “If your kids grew up on public broadcasting, if you have fond memories… then this is our moment to step up. Because it really does matter. And it matters in every community across this country.” – Paula Kerger [38:00]

• The Stakes:

  • Kerger shares an encounter in Nebraska that highlights the deep reliance rural communities have on PBS—far from a “nice to have,” PBS remains “an estate” to many.
  • Quotes the late Newton Minow’s advice: “You cannot mess this up.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Not three years, but three months to figure out how we're going to, you know, close that very significant funding gap.”
  – Paula Kerger [02:42]

• “The most painful was on the Senate side… and we lost again.”
  – Paula Kerger [04:31]

• “I think that this was an attack on public media, TV and radio…where the greatest impact…is going to be felt is in small rural stations.”
  – Paula Kerger [08:48]

• “Without the federal appropriation, the corporation no longer has a reason to exist… So they will, in fact, sunset at the end of this year.”
  – Paula Kerger [12:38]

• “Ken's series on the American Revolution… I think, one of the greatest gifts that we can give our country…”
  – Paula Kerger [20:31]

• “Most of our stations, the largest percentage of money that they receive is from lots of small contributions of people that are members. Tons of people have tote bags and mugs… They feel proud.”
  – Paula Kerger [25:32]

• “If your goal at the end of the day is to derive maximum profits, you're going to make different decisions than if your goal is public service… We're not in the same business… It is a different, different imperative.”
  – Paula Kerger [29:23]

• “You cannot mess this up.”
  – Newton Minow (as recalled by Paula Kerger) [38:00]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:43] – Introduction of the defunding crisis
• [02:42] – Kerger on the magnitude of the funding gap
• [04:31] – Political process and Senate amendment drama
• [08:48] – Political targeting and impact on rural stations
• [12:38] – The function and fate of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting
• [20:31] – Securing flagship programming and children’s content challenges
• [25:32] – The vital role of grassroots and foundation support
• [29:23] – Why PBS is still unique and needed in today’s media landscape
• [35:51] – Accountability, independence, and public mission
• [38:00] – Call to action for listeners and heartfelt community anecdotes

Conclusion

Charlie Sykes and Paula Kerger explore the gravity of the crisis precipitated by total federal defunding of public broadcasting and the dissolution of its traditional support structures. Kerger lays out a frank assessment of the risks—especially to rural America and children’s programming—but reiterates her belief in PBS’s resilience and the power of its grassroots community. The episode is both urgent and hopeful, closing with a heartfelt reminder that the survival of PBS depends on broad public support—now more than ever.