Tara Palmeri: Men Behaving Badly

Summary

To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes

Episode: Tara Palmeri: Men Behaving Badly

Date: June 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

Charlie Sykes is joined by journalist Tara Palmeri (The Red Letter Substack) to dissect the cascade of political and media controversies headlining another tumultuous week. The episode homes in on “men behaving badly”—from Democratic Senate candidate Graham Platner’s mounting scandals and the Democrats’ existential dilemma in Maine, to Donald Trump’s provocative nominee for Attorney General, and the state of accountability journalism amid media shakeups. Through candid, incisive discussion, Sykes and Palmeri probe the normalization of misconduct, the complicity or cowardice of institutions, and the challenges facing both politics and media. The tone is urgent, unvarnished, and often darkly humorous.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

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1. The Graham Platner Scandal and the Democratic Dilemma in Maine

[03:22 – 15:57]

The Stakes in Maine

• The Senate race in Maine is pivotal for Democratic control; Susan Collins is viewed as the most vulnerable GOP incumbent.
• Graham Platner, a rugged outsider, has become the Democratic candidate—but with intense personal baggage.

Allegations Against Platner

• A New York Times story details ex-girlfriends and his wife alleging volatile, toxic, sometimes physically intimidating behavior—and a history of heavy drinking and infidelity.
  • “One of the ex girlfriends said that he was borderline physically abusive, grabbing her arm, shoving her against a wall.” —Tara Palmeri [05:11]
• Additional baggage: sexting scandals, a Nazi tattoo (“todenkampf” discussed as ideology), contradictory public explanations, and disturbing Reddit history regarding attitudes toward women and sexual assault.

Character vs. Winning

• Palmeri and Sykes highlight the hypocrisy lurking as Democrats consider supporting Platner while simultaneously critiquing Trump’s treatment of women.
  • “Are Democrats so obsessed with winning that they're willing to look past his character flaws in the same way that Republicans have?” —Tara Palmeri [07:31]
  • “Once you convince yourself that the other side is so evil... everything's an existential threat, you're willing to say, okay... he may even be a rapist, but he's our guy.” —Charlie Sykes [08:09]
• Platner’s flat-out denials of specific abuse allegations (particularly from Lindsey Fifield) are played and examined.

Notable Quotes

• “He's changing his stories. He is acting, quite frankly, like a politician already.” —Tara Palmeri [06:35]
• “He is messy. I wouldn't leave him with my kids if I had kids.” —Tara Palmeri [14:12]
• Palmeri references Facebook group “Are We Dating the Same Guy?” to show the extent of concern about Platner’s conduct and duplicity. [12:14]

The Broader Pattern in Politics

• Both note troubling trend: “Why are so many problematic people attracted to politics?” —Tara Palmeri [15:57]
• Politics as a magnet for narcissists and those seeking power, with Congress depicted as a “frat house.” [17:25]

Existential Party Choices

• Sykes underscores that winning at all costs threatens Democrats’ moral authority.
  • “There's a price to be paid for ceding the moral high ground.” [11:20]
• With the primary looming, they question why Democrats would risk it all on such a controversial nominee instead of finding a “normal candidate.” [19:00]

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2. Trump Nominates Todd Blanche as Attorney General: Corruption and Senate Resistance

[23:24 – 33:31]

Trump’s Selection

• Trump names his personal attorney Todd Blanche (implicated in the Epstein file coverup, architect of a controversial $1.8B “slush fund,” indicted James Comey over seashells) as Attorney General.
  • “This is a guy who has won the job by showing a willingness to do absolutely everything for Donald Trump.” —Charlie Sykes [23:24]
• Palmeri notes Blanche’s unwavering loyalty and Trump’s preference for loyalists over those who might act independently or offer resistance.

Senate Complications

• Widespread Republican discomfort with the obvious corruption surrounding the anti-weaponization slush fund and its provision for Trump-family immunity.
  • “The fund is so obviously corrupt. And even Republicans recognized...” —Charlie Sykes [25:39]
• Uncertainty if Blanche can be confirmed given a slim majority and several Republican senators in open revolt or lame-duck status. Discussion of loopholes to keep Blanche in acting capacity regardless.
• Palmeri highlights Blanche’s MAGA Inc. ties and lucrative earnings as indicating the expansion of Trump’s patronage networks.

The Epstein File

• Palmeri spotlights congressional stonewalling and the continued redaction of co-conspirators in the Epstein case.
  • “Why are the co conspirators, why are their names redacted? There's no reason for that. That's not national security.” —Tara Palmeri [28:14]
• Jay Clayton’s financial benefit from Epstein’s network and the lack of scrutiny over ongoing conflicts of interest.
  • “How can this man be in charge of future Epstein investigations when he benefited financially... at Apollo?” —Tara Palmeri [29:14]

Trump’s Power Play

• Trump’s nomination of Blanche framed as both a “reward” and a direct challenge—a test of whether Senate Republicans will swallow this or openly defy him.
  • “Donald Trump likes saying, how big a shit sandwich can I make you eat?” —Charlie Sykes [30:37]
• Both express skepticism of robust Senate resistance.

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3. The Normalization of Misogyny, Media Complicity, and the White House Press Corps

[34:20 – 41:29]

Trump’s Behavior Toward Women Journalists

• Focus on Trump’s repeated public insults of female reporters, particularly Kaitlan Collins, criticized for not smiling.
  • “He thinks, and he wishes that it was the 1960s, when America was great again and women were not in the Oval Office asking him questions.” —Tara Palmeri [34:55]
  • “Even the women that he elevates... they're all sycophants. They're. Yes, women. They are not challenging him.” —Tara Palmeri [35:38]
• Sykes faults the rest of the media for never standing up, pushing back, or collectively demanding basic respect.
  • “Nobody ever stands up, nobody ever pushes back, says, you know, you can't call that woman piggy... That was really disrespectful.” —Charlie Sykes [36:36]
• Palmeri frames the press as “human pinatas,” noting the White House Correspondents Dinner’s continued engagement with Trump is both tone-deaf and damaging.

Media’s Eroding Backing for Reporters

• Palmeri chronicles the increasing vulnerability of journalists, as management at major outlets fears losing access or FCC licenses, and rarely stands up for reporters under attack. [38:19]
• Palmeri is skeptical of the White House pressroom’s actual utility: real stories are won off-the-record, not in-the-room on camera.

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4. Crisis in Media: CBS and Accountability Journalism

[42:04 – 47:58]

Upheaval at CBS and 60 Minutes

• CBS News is in meltdown: major correspondents and the executive producer at 60 Minutes were just fired as part of the network’s ongoing “insidification” (purportedly to curry favor with Trump).
  • “Ongoing destruction of the CBS brand at the hands of Bari Weiss is kind of breathtaking.” —Charlie Sykes [42:04]
• Palmeri assesses that stripping 60 Minutes of its legacy figures “hacks away” the entire rationale for CBS News.
  • “What are you as a brand? If you stand for nothing, you're nothing.” —Tara Palmeri [42:43]
• Sykes and Palmeri concur that you can't simply "reinvent" such a storied program without destroying its DNA.

Scott Pelley’s Stand

• Discussion of Scott Pelley's public on-air criticism of CBS management as a model for speaking truth to power, rather than quietly going along with destructive transitions in media.
  • “This is the moment that requires people to speak truth to power in that particular way... This is about, you know, political oligarchical destruction of independent journalism.” —Charlie Sykes [46:33]

Hope in Independent Media

• Palmeri sees hope for accountability journalism in the independent media sphere, unaffiliated with oligarchs and corporate interests, but acknowledges the immense challenges facing the industry at large.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Are Democrats so obsessed with winning that they're willing to look past his character flaws in the same way that Republicans have?” —Tara Palmeri [07:31]
• “Once you convince yourself that the other side is so evil... everything's an existential threat, you're willing to say, okay... he may even be a rapist, but he's our guy.” —Charlie Sykes [08:09]
• “He is messy. I wouldn't leave him with my kids if I had kids.” —Tara Palmeri [14:12]
• “Why are so many problematic people attracted to politics?” —Tara Palmeri [15:57]
• “Donald Trump likes saying, how big a shit sandwich can I make you eat?” —Charlie Sykes [30:37]
• “Even the women that he elevates... they're all sycophants. They're. Yes, women. They are not challenging him.” —Tara Palmeri [35:38]
• “What are you as a brand? If you stand for nothing, you're nothing.” —Tara Palmeri [42:43]
• “This is the moment that requires people to speak truth to power in that particular way.” —Charlie Sykes [46:33]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:22] – Introduction of the Maine Senate race and Graham Platner’s baggage
• [05:11] – Discussing allegations against Platner, including physical and emotional abuse
• [09:19] – Platner’s flat denial of physical abuse allegations (clip from Chris Hayes’ show)
• [11:05] – Acknowledgment of Platner's struggles, recency of allegations
• [12:14] – Are We Dating the Same Guy? Facebook group on Platner
• [15:57] – Why are so many problematic people attracted to politics?
• [23:24] – Trump names Todd Blanche for Attorney General
• [28:14] – Epstein files, redacted documents, and conflicts of interest
• [30:37] – Sykes: “How big a shit sandwich can I make you eat?”
• [34:55] – Trump’s attitude toward women reporters discussed
• [36:36] – Media inaction in confronting Trump’s public misogyny
• [42:04] – CBS shake-up and the fate of 60 Minutes
• [46:33] – Speaking truth to power in journalism

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Final Reflections

• The episode ties together three major threads: the disintegration of standards in politics (especially regarding women and abuse), the increasing normalization of such dysfunction due to partisan desperation, and the failure—yet also the possibility—of media to stand up for principle and accountability.
• Sykes and Palmeri close with a lacerating but hopeful reminder for listeners navigating a confounding era: “We are not the crazy ones.” [48:28]

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Transcript

[Tara Palmeri]

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[Charlie Sykes]

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[Tara Palmeri]

Thanks so much for having me. Charlie, it's always a pleasure. I love reading your newsletter and I just thank you. Such fresh insight. So thanks for keeping it real.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, I hope so. It's hard to stay fresh these days. But I want to get to Todd Blanche and what it means that he might go through a confirmation process. You had a very, very interesting piece about your reaction to Donald Trump going off on Kaitlan Collins earlier this week, which again, you is the kind of thing that unfortunately we tend to normalize. But we have to start with the Democratic dilemma that they face with Graham Platner, who is their candidate up in Maine. Look, there's two things, and I wrote about this in my newsletter yesterday. Democrats are not gonna be able to take control of the Senate probably without winning in Maine. This is a crucial seat. It's a winnable seat because Democrats have been winning the presidential cycles again and again. Susan Collins has survived up until now, but she seemed like the most vulnerable Republican incumbent. So, number one, Democrats have to win Maine. Number two, Graham Platner seems like a massive risk at this point. And you saw this story in the New York Times yesterday where they talked about in extensive conversations, three women who'd been romantically involved with Mr. Plattner offered a far more complicated assessment, describing volatile and toxic relationships that were unsettling and at times emotionally wrenching. And this would include that, in one case, even physically threatening. He drank regularly. I mean, he drank heavily and was regularly unfaithful. Now, in itself, not perhaps disqualifying, but this comes after the revelations about the sexting, the Nazi tattoo. So give me your sense where we're at right now on all of this, because the this election is so crucial and we're getting one story after another about Graham Platner. What should Democrats do? What are they doing?

[Tara Palmeri]

It's not just the ex girlfriends who say that his behavior is problematic. I mean, his wife had to come out and openly acknowledge that he was unfaithful. He was sexting with another woman there talks about his drinking problems, just this sort of erratic behavior. One of the ex girlfriends said that he was borderline physically abusive, grabbing her arm, shoving her against a wall. It just seems like a lot of these women have stories that really reflect a man who is not a person of high character. Now, he Says he's a work in progress. I think he called himself a vegetable that's growing. But we know there are thousands of comments on Reddit, and some of them are deeply disturbing when it comes to rape. Accusing women of almost deserving it for being under the influence of alcohol and simply regretting who they slept with, because that, to him, is the definition of rape. And then you add in the Nazi tattoo, which he says he had no idea what it meant. But then these girlfriends say that he actually bragged that he used a German word, todenkampf, meaning like, this is my ideology and this is my worldview, and it is a bit disturbing. He's changing his stories. He is acting, quite frankly, like a politician already. Right. In the way that he's handling it, he is apologizing, which we never get from President Trump. But this is a bigger story than Graham Platner. Okay, so he defeats Janet Mills, who was the favorite among the Democratic establishment. Fine. He's an outsider. He's an oyster shucker farmer. It's cool. He's got tattoos. He's young. He's not Susan Collins, who's an older person, who is, frankly, at the end of her career and has admitted that she has some health issues. Right. This is a chance for the Democrats to offer for a more, I guess you could say, machismo, masculine, hetero type of male that the Republican Party has sort of owned that identity. Right. And then you have Graham Platner, a former, I believe he was a serviceman in the very least. I don't know what his rank was, but he's got tats. He's cool, he's rugged, he's a bit edgy. That's what they need right now.

[Charlie Sykes]

The problem is that's what they say.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, exactly. Here's the thing. If you want to run an election on character, accountability, integrity, it's very difficult to stand behind Graham Platner, especially as you use your ammo against President Trump for the way he treats women. And I think the way you treat women is a window into your integrity and the way that your character. And really, I think when I see this, are Democrats so obsessed with winning that they're willing to look past his character flaws in the same way that Republicans have? And does that basically put them on the same playing field, essentially?

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, this does feel very, very familiar for those of us that went through this back in 2016. You know, for people who are. I actually was talking to somebody this morning, and I said, you know, for. For 10 years, people have been asking, why do Republicans accept this? Why do they look the other way of all this misconduct? And I said, well, maybe we're about to have a teachable moment, because once you convince yourself that the other side is so evil, is so dange, that everything's an existential threat, that you're willing to say, okay, Donald Trump's a crook, he's a boor, you know, he's, he may even be a rapist, but he's our guy. And it's so important not to let the other guys win. You're going to see many of the same arguments. Now, you mentioned that Graham Platner has apologized, but also he is flatly denying some of these allegations. And again, this is an interesting moment for Democrats who have up until now been believed the women embrace the MeToo movement and of course, the whole Epstein file issue of the treatment of women. And so Graham Platner understands he's got a really big problem. He goes on Chris Hayes show on Ms. Now on Thursday, I want to play this because Hayes walks through the allegations against him and listen to his flat out denial. He's basically saying that this woman in the case, Lindsey Fifield, is just lying about him. Let's play that.

[Graham Platner]

You know, there's some serious stuff there I want to go through with you, and I think voters have a right to know about it. And I want to start with what Ms. Fifield says about being rough is the term the times were, and I'm going to just read you the account so you have it. This is from the Times. Mr. Platner could be rough with her, Ms. Fifield said, particularly when they were drinking, leaving her shaken and sometimes afraid. In the interviews, she grappled with how to process her experiences. She was quick to note, he never hit me, he never punched me. She said he regularly grabbed her by the shoulders, sometimes hard enough to leave marks. On one occasion, yanked her out of a cab by her wrist after an argument. She wanted to stay in the car. During one argument, she recalled, he twisted her arm behind her back, shoved her into a bedroom and held the door closed from the other side so she couldn't get out, telling her to remain there until she was calm. Eventually, Ms. Fifield said, she fell asleep and left the next morning. It hurt, she said. But she added, it didn't cause any injury. It didn't break my arm. Did that happen?

[Charlie Sykes]

No, it did not. There are some allegations in this piece that I just want to be kind of unequivocal about are simply not true. Anything alleging physicality, any That I knew what my tattoo was. These are the statements of someone who's politically motivated.

[Graham Platner]

You did not grab her by the wrist. You did not put your hands on her shoulders. You did not push her into a room that you closed the door on. She's lying about that, is what you're saying?

[Charlie Sykes]

Yes. That is not true. Terry, your reaction to that says that she's lying?

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, what else is he gonna say? I mean, what he has said in the past is, I've gone through a really difficult period of time, and a lot of these women recall that he was a drinker, that he was going through PTSD after returning from his service, and we know that he was actually, you know, getting psychiatric help through the military.

[Charlie Sykes]

But there are demons here.

[Tara Palmeri]

Demons for sure. And no one is perfect. But the fact that there are so many accounts and that he's been pretty open about his struggles with alcohol, it's concerning.

[Charlie Sykes]

I think it's possible to say, okay, you know, everybody has flaws, and clearly he's working through some issues, but do you work through that issues in the United States Senate? Do you work through those issues during a campaign in which the stakes are so high? And look, I mean, I'm willing to cut him some slack about, you know, things that he might have posted when he was drinking 14 years ago, but he's got a recency problem. Many of these allegations are very recent, within the last year or two. And quite frankly, I don't know. I mean, look, you know, the Democrats could, in fact, choose to do exactly what Republicans have done and said, you know, winning is more important than anything else. But I think there's a price to be paid for ceding the moral ground, moral high ground, when it comes to character and your attitudes toward the abuse of women. And the fact is that there's so much. And of course, what we don't know is whether there's more drip, drip, drip on the way.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. And, Charlie, I was. I don't want to use the word amused, but there's this. This Facebook group called Are we dating the same Guy? Okay, My cousin told me about this. She's about a year older than me, and she loves this site. She's single in New York City and this and that. So she will go on it. I can't even. I don't even have the time to look at what this is all about. But apparently someone posted about him, and there were a number of women, and the New York Times verified that it was real. A woman saying, are we dating the same guy? While he was married. And they just got married very recently. Like, this was in the past few years. And that's concerning. Like, I know that people say, oh, marriages aren't perfect, people are unfaithful, but in the beginning of a relationship, in the beginning of a marriage, this is what's happening. That there are so many women that they've created a post online trying to figure out if you're actually available. I mean, that's like almost a sociopathic level. I've always found that from the men that I've perused it a little bit. I'm like, wow, you literally have to be a sociopath. If that many women can post on this, on Facebook, wondering if you are in fact faithful to one person or another.

[Charlie Sykes]

So there's a couple of complications in the latest New York Times story, which we ought to acknowledge. I mean, number one, that Lindsey Fifield, who is kind of the main, you know, character, you know, is, is a, is a well known conservative activist. She has ties to conservative organizations. Doesn't mean that she's not telling the truth, but people have seized upon that to say this is why her credibility should be questioned. New York Times admits they didn't verify her allegations of violence. But as I think you're pointing out here, though, there were other women, there's two other women who were quoted in the New York Times. And then there's just so much other stuff. It's just, there's so messy.

[Tara Palmeri]

He is messy. I wouldn't leave him with my kids if I had kids. He's a messy guy.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, see, but you know, I remember, you know, 10 years ago, people were saying, well, Donald Trump, I'm not hiring a pastor. I'm not hiring a babysitter. Yeah, I wouldn't hire him to walk my dogs, but at least he's not Hillary Clinton release. He's not Kamala Harris.

[Tara Palmeri]

I don't know about that. I do think about the people that I'm voting for. Do they have integrity? Would I trust them with my vote, with representing me? I mean, ultimately, I want to believe that the people who are working for me because we pay their salaries are doing the best job they can possibly do. Why are we settling for less? We're Americans. This is not what we do.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, now I agree with you. But after next Tuesday, understand that there will be a lot of people who are going to regard that as hopelessly naive because, you know, having principles and caring about character is a luxury. Except if you're in this Flight 93 existential election. And the only thing that's important is getting control of the Senate. Now, I would turn this around. You and I are having this conversation on Friday. People are listening to it on Saturday. The primary is actually not until Tuesday. And I think that they have until sometime in July if they ever were to replace Platner. And so I guess I would turn around saying, if you do believe that this is an existential crisis, why would you risk it on Graham Platner if you have any alternative whatsoever? And just going back to Maine, all the Democrat has to do is get the same people that voted for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to vote for their Senate candidate, and they win easily. This should be an easy picking. And yet there are people who are going to be committed to the Grand Platner. And I'm afraid that we're all going to get dumber during this period.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, this is exactly what happened in California, and I do not believe that. I mean, Eric Swalwell was a party favorite, right? I mean, he was an establishment favorite, and they knew that he was problematic. Everybody knew that he was problematic, right? Not to the extent that we've learned that there are allegations of abuse at this level, but he's a problematic person. Why are so many problematic people attracted to politics? That's another question. I've always thought to myself. It's actually something that has always drawn me to wanting to be a reporter. Maybe there's, like a part of me that, like, if I wasn't a journalist, I would be a detective or I'd be a cop or something like that. But I just feel like, why are so many problematic people wanting more power and feeling like they have the. When they look in the mirror, they see a person who can represent others. I don't understand that.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, it is an interesting question, especially like, who is invited. Who is attracted to politics right now, given what you have to go through, you know that you have to have a strong ego. It attracts narcissists. It attracts people who want power, who want influence, who want control over others, who will use the office to benefit themselves, either financially or sexually in a variety of ways. But it is an interesting question how. You know, because these stories, you keep saying, like, you know, how horny is Congress? I mean, what is going on there? You know, have we turned our political world into some, you know, you know, huge, you know, frat house of some?

[Tara Palmeri]

It is. I mean, when you, you, you. I don't know if you've ever, like, been a congressional reporter, but if you're Ever on the Hill. Like, I lived in Washington. I covered politics there for a while, but it is a frat house. I mean, it actually was sort of similar in European politics when I was living in Brussels as well, because they all go to this place called Strasbourg on the border of France and Germany for their plenary. But there's something about these men who are hopped up on power, have all of these young staffers working for them, lobbyists kissing their butt, like, taking them out to dinners. They have these expense accounts. They stay in nice hotels and. Or they. Or in the case of, you know, American members, they stay in their apartments. Some of them bunk up and dorm together because they don't make that much money. But there are a lot of perks to the job. Right? You basically never pay for a single bill yourself. And they go out. They're not around their families, and they go out and they get drinks. And they are being idealized. And they're around young, idealistic, some often attractive people, women, and they take advantage of that power. Part of the reason they may be attracted to these jobs is for that reason alone, is they want to be worshiped. It's really funny. One of my girlfriends said to me yesterday, and it kind of took me off guard because she was like, what are you trying to build here with your. The red letter? Like, what are you trying to do with your. With the Tara Palmeri show? Like, what do you want your legacy to be? And I was like, legacy? I don't stay up thinking about my legacy. I'm just trying to survive every single day. But then I was like, these are people who literally think about their legacy all the time. They look at monuments and think their faces should be on them.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, certainly, if it's Donald Trump. Okay, just one last comment on all of this. That this is what's happening in Maine is multiple warning signs for Democrats. And I certainly understand the. The establishment went with Janet Mills, who's the incumbent Democrat, who's, by the way, still on the ballot on Tuesday. I mean, there's a possibility. It's a very, very slim possibility, but she's like, I think, 79 years old. And at some point, you would think that in places like California and Maine, there are a lot of Democrats. Why is it so hard to come up with a normal candidate who does not have these demons and this kind of baggage, who is, you know, not necessarily in their 70s? And it is a question. Are. Are normies now being repelled from politics? I mean, do they not wanna run? Why is it so Hard to come up with good candidates.

[Tara Palmeri]

Here's my theory, and I could be completely wrong, but, like, you either have to be such an outsider that you can utilize the Internet and the algorithms to break through, right? And you have to be so different than the status quo that you get attention just for that, right? Maybe like you. You have a shtick, and that's your thing. You're a branded character. People like that. You're relatable, whatever it is. You have that. That charisma that not a lot of politicians have. So you can break through that way. I think you see that a lot with El Said in Michigan, right? He's leading right now. We had him on our show recently, but. So that's what Graham Platner has. He's cool.

[Charlie Sykes]

I worry about him, too.

[Tara Palmeri]

But then you. Or you have to have the establishment behind you in party politics, and you have to have people there that are supporting you, the party, the state party, Schumer, et cetera. Hakeem, you've got to have that establishment. And they don't like anything that is risky or anyone that they don't know. And politics is a patronage system, essentially. So that is what it is. And so it doesn't really offer a lot of oxygen for new people because they haven't done their time and they haven't done their space. So the only new entrants that can break through have to come in, like, guns blazing. And people that are packing guns aren't always the ones you want necessarily in the job. I think that's the way to. I think like anyone else is gonna be. It's gonna have a hard time. You know, it's just hard. Like, I've seen some people trying to break through, and they try to create fake controversies just to break through. Like that guy James Fishback in Florida, who's running for governor. I mean, he literally creates a controversy every single day so the algorithm will acknowledge him. And it worked. He went up 15% in the polls. Some polls show him just, like, right behind Byron Donalds. And the guy is an open racist. Calls him a DEI candidate, openly talks about how, like, Haitian immigrants have, you know, ruined Florida. He's a really, really divisive character, but those divisive comments give him more media time. So it's like this is the algorithmic candidate. They know how to play it. They know how to keep the attention and spotlight on them. And everybody else is often an establishment candidate that is backed by the. By the party. So they don't really have to do that. So where is that person who's, like, reasonable? I don't know, Charlie.

[Charlie Sykes]

Where are they living their lives, spending time with their families, doing their business, you know, not. Not.

[Ben Green]

Hi, this is Ben Green from the Athletic fc. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards. Hotels.com, it's all in the name.

[Graham Platner]

Still waiting in line. Again, that's time you will never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com. over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office for a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.

[Charlie Sykes]

Okay, so speaking of charisma. Now, this is a terrible segue. So this week, Donald Trump says that he's going to nominate Todd Blanche to be the permanent Attorney General. Completely not surprising, but also interesting because, you know, we had had all of that buzz about Republicans who were, you know, being skeptical of Donald Trump and, you know, who were, you know, in that nothing left to lose phase. But so Todd Blanche, who, you know, knee deep in the Epstein file, cover up the author of the slush fund responsible for the indictment of James Comey over seashells. I mean, this is a guy who has won the job by showing a willingness to do absolutely everything for Donald Trump. So, you know, Todd Blanche, you've gotten up in his face. So give me your sense of the that Donald Trump has chosen this moment to challenge Senate Republicans. I want you to confirm this guy.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, I wasn't sure after that performance this week because when asked whose idea was this $1.8 billion slush fund, the anti weaponization fund, he said, this is something that President Trump has been talking about for a while because I felt that whoever was blamed for that would take the fallout. And President Trump doesn't like to be blamed for unpopular policy ideas. So I was like, is he really going to get confirmed after that? I thought Trump doesn't care about the Epstein files. That's not, you know, he cares in the sense that it nags on him and he has to answer questions. But no one who's associated with Epstein will ever take the fall for that because once that domino falls, it hits him next. That's why Howard Lutnick will have his job as Commerce Secretary forever, even if he's doing the worst job ever. And I think ultimately he would never, I think with Pam Bondi, yeah, he was unhappy with how she handled the Epstein files, but he was ultimately even more unhappy with the fact that she didn't go after his political enemies. Whereas Todd Blanche, guns blazing, was ready to go. Right. He was a little bit smoother than Bondi. I do think that in front of Congress, it was a different. It was the Appropriations Committee. They're not quite as theatrical as what we saw in the House.

[Charlie Sykes]

But the fund is so obviously corrupt. And even report Republicans recognized. I mean, I guess that was, it was the timing. We had a Republican revolt in the Senate and actually shut down the reconciliation bill, which they eventually passed because they were so appalled at this notion. This deal, which is not just the slush fund, but also grants Trump and his family immunity forever from, you know, IRS audits. And that stands. And by the way, I'm not sure that the slush fund is not going to come back as well. So at this moment, which were Todd Blanche is like the most deplorable, the most egregious, the biggest suck up ever. That's when Donald Trump chooses to basically kind of give a middle finger to the Senate saying, I'm going to make you swallow this one.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Charlie Sykes]

I mean, do you think the Senate will confirm this guy? What do you think?

[Tara Palmeri]

I don't know because they're holding US Attorneys up right now. And Trump has made a lot of enemies. He's, you know, basically you got some of them retiring in the YOLO phase. You've also got ones that he has

[Charlie Sykes]

primaried out like, you know, Tillis, Cassidy, Cornyn.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. Why do they need.

[Charlie Sykes]

You still have. You still have Collins, Murkowski, Mitch McConnell is.

[Tara Palmeri]

You don't and you don't. You never even had then the votes. You don't have the margins to act like that, you know, and so he could be acting Attorney General forever. There's always a loophole. So it's not like the end of the world for him because that's what they do. I mean, even Biden, I think he had an acting housing secretary, HUD secretary for his entire term, the end of his term at least. So this is, I guess, listen, he was his personal attorney. I was shocked to hear that he made tens of millions of dollars from MAGA Inc. Which is just another slush fund too, to take out Trump's political enemies, run by his, you know, run by his former campaign manager, Chris Lacivita and a few others.

[Charlie Sykes]

Kind of a big deal. That was an interesting story that got almost no attention.

[Tara Palmeri]

I thought that was really interesting. You know, Madeline Dean, she showed up with a document that actually some of the survivors raised to me that names four co conspirators in the Epstein files. And like it's all redacted, the whole thing. And it lays out in 86 pages, like it's a very comprehensive story about Jeffrey Epstein and what he had done. And it was created by Jeff Berman, who was the U.S. attorney in 2019, who was prosecuting Epstein. Why is it all redacted? If we're talking, why are the co conspirators, why are their names redacted? There's no reason for that. That's not national security.

[Charlie Sykes]

No, it's not.

[Tara Palmeri]

They aren't victims. And so it's like there were so many things in this hearing, but it was so long. And I feel like a lot of the Republicans wasted a lot of time. But he did ultimately back down from the anti weaponization fund. I don't think he took enough of a grilling on Epstein. And I guess Trump thought he passed and probably just felt like, you know what, let's just give him the Attorney General job. When I saw him at the French ambassador's residence though, and I asked him about Jay Clayton, who is the U.S. attorney in New York now, who worked for Leon Black in the sense that Leon Black apart appointed him to replace him when he left the private equity firm he started called Apollo because he had spent $300 million in services with Jeffrey Epstein accounting services that ended up actually just being ways to pay off women, like giving him money to pay off women and other estate laundering type of things. He appointed Jay Clinton to replace him, and then he stayed on, obviously, and had was a shareholder. And so I'm like, how can this man be in charge of future Epstein investigations when he benefited financially to the tune of more than $1.5 million in this role at Apollo?

[Charlie Sykes]

Right? And we talked about that in the last podcast and I think this is what makes this decision by Trump so interesting, because the Epstein file story has kind of not been getting Traction lately, if you have confirmation hearings for Todd Blanche, it brings it back, or certainly gives the opportunity to ask questions like that, to talk about, you know, his weird, you know, back and forth with Ghislaine Maxwell, you know, how he's handled the, you know, how he's handled the redaction of Epstein. So I actually see this as, yes, a reward for Todd Blanche, but also really a challenge to the Senate. Donald Trump is really angry at the Republican Senate leadership for not doing what he wanted. I mean, they actually cut out the his ballroom. And so this is kind of a middle finger to them to say, all right, I'm gonna force you for an up or down vote. Because that's tough to be a Republican senator to vote against the President's choice. And yet he's given them. It's, you know, Donald Trump likes that. He likes saying, how big a shit sandwich can I make you eat?

[Graham Platner]

Yeah.

[Charlie Sykes]

You know, how much can I make you do? And this is like, basically saying, all right, you either eat this or you defy me, and we'll see what happens. Although a lot of these guys have nothing left to lose anymore. Do they?

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, well, they're so old and like, it just doesn't matter. I think they've just.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well. Or defeated.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. Or defeated. I agree with you. Although he's pretty daft at handling this stuff. He just gaslights. I mean, that's what he did to me.

[Charlie Sykes]

Blanche.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, Blanche. And like. Yeah, he just gaslights. He's. He's like, you don't know what you're talking about. I don't. You don't know what you're talking about. Like, that's. That's his go to.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, we'll see.

[Tara Palmeri]

I know it'll be interesting. I mean, senators are usually a little better at the cross examination. I always like. I mean, I think it's good to have a few really good former prosecutors there who can actually keep a line of questioning going and truly get down to the heart of it. And the other thing is, I think Grace Meng, in that hearing said that he wasn't under oath, which is crazy. Why are any of these people testifying in Congress if they're not under oath?

[Charlie Sykes]

That is malpractice.

[Tara Palmeri]

Why are they even allowing that? That's insanity.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, it's also just a indication of how unserious members of Congress are about exercising the power that they actually have now. They have pushed back. I mean, there have been these moments where it looked like they were cracking, but I think that that's gonna be the real test, you know, is, is the Republican Senate resistance for real or just for show? Just, you know, self stroking. We'll see. With Todd Blanche, I was troubled and maybe there's something I don't understand about it, that they did not vote to ban the slush fund. I mean, no. Explicitly do it. Because you know what, if you do not drive a stake through the heart of that slush fund, you're going to get the slush fund. Donald Trump will find a way to, to get billions of dollars into the hands of his cronies one way or the other. And you know, there have been reports about work workarounds, so I don't trust them. Okay, so another story that I wanted writing either, Charlie. Well, okay, so that, that should be a massive tell right there. The fact that he would not put it in writing. Of course, the case might be re. Has been reopened by the judge. So, you know, there is that, by the way, just sort of like a complete digression. Speaking of judges and everything, you know, one of my favorite stories I think of the next couple of weeks is going to be the. Apparently they are going to take Donald Trump's name off the Kennedy Center. I mean, do you think. I mean, the general counsel issued the order to remove Donald Trump's name from the Kennedy center and from all of the other stuff. Do you think they're actually going to do that?

[Tara Palmeri]

I don't know. I mean, like, it's true that you can only get your. Like to have your name on a national monument, you have to go through congressional. Like, it has to be passed into law. Like, there has to be congressional.

[Charlie Sykes]

Amazing.

[Tara Palmeri]

And you can't just like, slap your name on anything. This isn't like his real estate empire where he just brands things. I mean, even then you have a licensing agreement. Like, you have an agreement with the person who owns the building that you will put your name on it unless you buy that building flat out. And he is not buying the building. The taxpayers essentially own a piece of it. So therefore they have. He has to create almost a licensing agreement with the taxpayers by way of Congress. And he hasn't done that. So. Yeah, sorry, sorry. But it will be, it'll make for some really funny footage, Charlie, watching people there on like ladders taking his name down.

[Charlie Sykes]

I will pay for the lives stream of that. Okay, so there are three interesting media stories this week that I wanted to ask you about as a media person, including what's been going on at CBS and the White House Correspondents Dinner deciding that they are Going to do it again. And then Donald Trump will still be there. They're the guest of honor. But, you know, as you know, I like to push back against normalizing something. Donald Trump has been insulting female reporters on a regular basis. This week, he lashed out at Kaitlan Collins, cnn, who asked him about the slush fund. And I know you had some thoughts about that.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. So he's obsessed with the fact that Caitlin doesn't smile. It's a very weird thing. I think he's, like, obsessed with her, frankly. But men, none of the men in that room are smiling. Why would you be smiling when you're asking someone who is the President of the United States, who is a civil servant, a question, an accountability question about a slush fund that he created, like, Mr. President, are we going to keep the slush fund? What does he expect? This is what he expects. He thinks, and he wishes that it was the 1960s, when America was great again and women were not in the Oval Office asking him questions. They did not have the type of power to hold him to account. He was a beauty pageant owner, a modeling judge contestant. He was their boss. He was a celebrity. You could grab him by the, you know what? Like, that is the role that President Trump is used to. And even the women that he elevates around him, like Susie Wiles, the chief of staff, and the various women in his cabinet, they're all sycophants. They're. Yes, women. They are not challenging him. So when Caitlin challenges him and she's not walking around in a bikini like a beauty pageant contestant, it really blows his effing mind. I don't know how else to say it. This is not the world that he was raised in, and this is not the place he wants to bring the world back to. You know, she's a woman with agency. She's independent. She has power there. And it drives him furious. It makes it furious.

[Charlie Sykes]

So this is not new about Donald Trump, but I guess it also raises the question about the rest of the media, the other people in the room.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Charlie Sykes]

Nobody ever stands up, nobody ever pushes back, says, you know, you can't call that woman piggy, or, you know, I'm sorry, that was really disrespectful. None of that. And I keep thinking about the White House court.

[Tara Palmeri]

Mr. President, why did you think it was appropriate to call that woman piggy? Mr. President, why did you think it was appropriate to say that Caitlin is smiling when, in fact, all of the other people in the room are not smiling? Mr. President, why do you Think she has hatred in her eyes? What is it? Why do you care if she has hatred or whatever she's feeling? She's a professional woman. Are you okay with professional women asking, you know, asking you questions?

[Charlie Sykes]

We know the answer. Yeah. Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

That is the most. And honestly, that would be the most illuminating question you could ever ask him. Frankly. It really would be. Cuz you would get into his psychology and then you would understand what he's saying when he says make America great again.

[Charlie Sykes]

So I can't help but think about that decision by the White House Correspondents Dinner to reschedule and to still have him as, as the guest of honor, given a. Everything that's going on, his attacks on the media, his attacks on, you know, we could run, run through all, all of this. I mean, I, I thought it was a horrible idea in the first place to invite him.

[Tara Palmeri]

I had a ticket. I turned it down. I was like, I'm good.

[Charlie Sykes]

Yeah, you, you did.

[Tara Palmeri]

But yeah, no thanks

[Charlie Sykes]

at some point. I mean, there are a lot of really good journalists who are doing really good journalism right now, but this just seems tone deaf to be having this event this summer with the President. Am I being too hard on the White House correspondence?

[Tara Palmeri]

No, it's weird. I mean, I love Waja, but she works at cbs and like, we know that Bari Weiss is like, is really trying. I'm not sure that Barry Weiss has any influence on this because Waja is the President and she should be independent from her boss, which I believe she is. But they are a bunch of human pinatas. Essentially, when they walk into that Oval Office, he beats them up with his attacks. And frankly, what you don't hear and what was happening during the first admit, we don't hear. Now, what you did hear during the first administration is that they are actively locking reporters out. If they don't like their questioning, if they don't like a story they reported, they're blocking them from pool. I mean, they tried to basically ruin the business model of the Associated Press, which requires access as a wire company. And they are being incredibly vindictive. And all the owners of these media companies, they have zero. Like, they're just concerned about the bottom line right now and they don't want to lose their FCC licenses. And so they're not sticking up for their reporters anymore.

[Charlie Sykes]

They're not.

[Tara Palmeri]

You can't be a reporter and not have the backing of your news agency. I don't even know why they're in there. I mean, frankly. I mean, I was a White House correspondent for ABC and for Politico and before I joined abc, where you have to physically be there because it's sort of a performance, you know, asking the question is a performance that goes into the package. And being in front of the White House shows proximity even if nothing happened inside that day. But I found that you get way more stories outside of the White House like it's an onion. Like no one ever comes to you and says, tara, hey, let me tell you what's really happening on the White House grounds. Are you joking? That never happens. But if you want to go to the bar across the street, off the record, that's where you get the real story. So while I appreciate like some of the stagecraft and the, you know, the back and forth and the jousting and sometimes you get some answers, but very rarely does anything anyone says ever make any news. Except Trump, actually, because he just says crazy shit just to make news and make news really blurry and scary all the time and just. And succeeds people to turn out to now as part of his, I guess some sort of massive media manipulation. I don't think it's really that valuable anymore.

[Charlie Sykes]

And so I'm actually overrated.

[Tara Palmeri]

Like, at this time in my life, I'm not in there being like smacked around and then dealing with some corporate bosses or just like, is she getting enough access?

[Ben Green]

Hi, this is Ben Green from the Athletic fc. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards. Hotels.com, it's all in the name.

[Pablo Torre]

Hey, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds out. And today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. In sports, there's always pressure to chase the next big thing. But sometimes the smartest play is sticking with what's already working for you. Boost Mobile gets that if your phone is running fine, you should not have to buy a new one just to get a better deal. Bring your phone to Boost Mobile and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price hikes. Visit Boost Mobile, unlock your phone. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.

[Charlie Sykes]

So you're probably also happy that you don't work for Barry Weiss at cbs. You mentioned Barry Weiss's name. This has been an extraordinary. Where you take 60 minutes, you've fired their major correspondence, the executive producer, and then Scott Pelley stands up and lets the new guy have it. I mean, give me your sense, because, I mean, look, I can't. Other than the Ellison's need to curry favor with Donald Trump, the ongoing destruction of the CBS brand at the hands of Bari Weiss is kind of breathtaking. But what is your take on that?

[Tara Palmeri]

I. God, it's bad. I mean, you can't repair a reputation built over so many years either that can't be repaired overnight. It doesn't stand for anything. That's the problem. CBS stands for nothing right now. And what, like, what are you as a brand? If you stand for nothing, you're nothing. And so. And it's really like the thing that even though CBS had the lowest ratings when it came to the morning show and the evening show, and they still do, it was 60 Minutes. That was the crown jewel. That was the thing.

[Charlie Sykes]

It was.

[Tara Palmeri]

It was the thing that essentially kept that entire news organization alive. Because at the end of the day, that was. It is one of the rare shows on linear television that people would go to to watch appointment viewing. And you've hit the height of your career as a 60 Minutes correspondent. So what she's doing is just like literally hacking away at the crown jewel of a news organization that's clearly on its dying last legs. And so who is she gonna replace them with? Like, that's gonna be something to watch, right?

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, you can't rebuild that either. I mean, you can't take something that's been around for 60 years that has developed this and basically destroy the entire DNA. And then what, have this guy with no broadcast management experience come in and reinvent this to basically redo it? You know, you have inherited this incredible thing. There are a lot of things in linear television that are broken. A lot of things at CBS that could be made better. This was not one of them. And so, you know, I know there was some criticism of Scott Pelley for being performative. And why did he do that? Well, I think Scott Pelley realized that with the firings the week before that it was over, that they had decided to insitify 60 Minutes and someone needed to speak out as opposed to go along and get along or assume that whatever is broadcast as 60 minutes next fall will actually be 60 minutes as opposed to the insidified version.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, of course. Listen, like, Scott Pelly saw the writing on the wall. He was not long for this 60 Minutes situation. And it's much smarter if he's developing a brand. Maybe on substack with us. He is seen as someone openly defying his corporate bosses and speaking out in favor of journalism. So, like, I also think strategically, Scott Pelley did the right thing. Other people who maybe are hoping and that they have a chance of staying and keeping that paycheck, I mean, they all, like most of them, live in New York City. New York City is not a cheap place to live. The industry is shrinking. It is not expanding right now. The only place it's expanding is where we are in independent media, thanks to actual listeners who are keeping us around. But, yeah, I mean, this is a time of reckoning, and it is. It is. I. We're seeing, though, a lot of really great accountability journalism, though, in the independent space. And I feel encouraged by that. I just worry a little bit. I mean, we know that all of the media organizations are owned by either rich billionaires, conglomerates, private equity, you know, but I'm hopeful that there are a few people, like beacons on meet in independent media who can claim credibly they're not backed by anyone with interests, who are unafraid to challenge authority and can create products that do break through. Like, that is my hope, because I think we still need journalism no matter what.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, and this is the key, I think, you know, for people who are criticizing, Scott Pelley is like, you know, he could have done this in private. He could have gone quietly. He could have kept collecting the paycheck. But this is the moment that requires people to speak truth to power in that particular way, you know, to. To aggressively let people know what is happening, what the stakes are. Call out the people with the power. What power? You know, compared to Donald Trump and the Ellisons and Bari Weiss, what power does even the best paid correspondent have unless to speak out and use. Use their position to say journalism matters? This is a threat. This is what is going on. This is not just about this show. This is about, you know, political oligarchical. Oligarchical destruction of independent journalism. I thought it was important. You know, you're right that I think he's establishing his brand, but also think it's important to kind of model the fact that you don't have to simply just, you know, bend the knee and go along with all this or pretend that it's just part of the transition of the media. I mean, I read some people who are saying things like, well, yes, you know, linear media obviously does need to change, you know, clearly changes in the audience. But what's happening at CBS is not that story. And you have to understand exactly what the story is and why it's important for everybody. So I, I'm glad that he did what he did, even if it cost him his job.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right. Yeah, it's. It needed to be said. And it did.

[Charlie Sykes]

It did.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, it needed to be said, as

[Charlie Sykes]

do so many others, which is why I'm so glad that you took the time to be with us this morning. I appreciate it very much, Tara.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, this was really fun, Charlie. I mean, fun, but I don't. Yeah, it's good to just like, kind of think about what happened this week so much. It was. It's really quite. Really was a whirlwind. But it is every week, right?

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, it is every week is why we do this every week, because we have to keep reminding ourselves, as you know, that we are not the crazy ones. Thanks.

[Pablo Torre]

Hey, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. In sports, there's always pressure to chase the next big thing. But sometimes the smartest play is sticking with what's already working for you. Boost Mobile gets that if your phone is running fine, you should not have to buy a new one just to get a better deal. Bring your phone to Boost Mobile and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price hikes. Visit Boost Mobile, unlock your phone. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile unlimited plan.

[Ben Green]

Hi, this is Ben Green from the Athletic fc. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards. Hotels.com, it's all in the name.

[Tara Palmeri]

Still waiting in line Again, that's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with stamps dot com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps dot com. Join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail and packages in seconds, then stick Schedule a pickup right from your home or office for a limited time. Go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.