Podcast Summary: To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes

Episode: “The Military Has Been a Little Bit Confused”
Date: March 31, 2026
Guest: Lieutenant General (Ret.) Mark Hertling
Topic: Military readiness, policy confusion in U.S. responses to Iran, the state of civil-military relations, and the evolution of American defense posture.

Episode Overview

In this episode, Charlie Sykes sits down with retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, author of If I Don’t Return: A Father’s Wartime Journal, to unpack the growing tensions in the Middle East, the risk of U.S. military escalation in Iran, the confusion and politicization within current military policy, and the implications for American troops, civil-military relations, and American alliances. The discussion weaves between real-time strategic assessment, broader lessons from past conflicts, reflections on the military’s evolving character, and sharp concerns about the administration’s approach to war decisions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Current Military Posture & Conflicting Signals

(02:15–06:40)

• U.S. deployments to the Middle East are ramping up, notably Marine Expeditionary Units and a brigade from the 82nd Airborne Division.
• Confusion reigns over U.S. objectives and missions, with internal admin discord reported in major news outlets.
• President Trump’s statements oscillate between declaring victory and ramping up threats, including suggestions of bombing Iran’s critical infrastructure—which some legal experts say signals intent to commit war crimes.
• Iranian missile attacks have damaged critical U.S. assets such as AWACS aircraft.

Quote:

“The military has been a little bit confused about what the desired end state is from a political perspective. In this war, it's very difficult to craft a campaign plan.” — Hertling (09:33)

2. Intelligence Failures, Disinformation, and Decision-Making

(06:40–09:01)

• The fog of war is omnipresent; intelligence is fragmented and often distorted further as it moves up the chain.
• Misinformation is exacerbated under the current administration, with the president’s public statements contradicting intelligence estimates (e.g., overstating the destruction of Iran’s missile capacity).

Quote:

"Once a war begins, nobody really knows what's going on...in every war, misinformation, disinformation, wrong information is a problem. It seems to be exponentially enhanced in this particular war with this administration." — Sykes (06:40)

3. Morale, Troop Confusion, and the Strategy Void

(09:01–14:48)

• Senior commanders lack clear political directives, making meaningful operational planning all but impossible.
• Kinetic airstrikes are easier than ground operations but do not translate into strategic victory or achieving political objectives.
• The U.S. force packages currently in theater (“baby bear” level) are insufficient for full-scale military aims but may be enough for limited, high-visibility objectives.

Quote:

“The number of strikes don't equal a great strategy...that doesn't necessarily mean you're gearing toward meeting your political objectives.” — Hertling (09:33)

4. White House Influence & The ‘Sizzle Reel’ Problem

(14:48–19:13)

• Discussion on the influence of figures like Pete Hegseth in briefing the president with dramatic, superficial videos—“two minute sizzle reels”—instead of substantial analysis.
• Deep concern over decision-making processes driven by spectacle, rather than sober assessment.
• Tight focus on targets like Kharg Island reveals the perils of simplistic thinking.

Quote:

“...what are you getting? What's the objective for seizing Carg Island? Is it to control the flow of oil? I thought we were trying to open up the flow of oil. If you're just trying to control it...Iran is facing an existential threat...they're going to blow that island up. They don't care if Marines are on it.” — Hertling (17:51)

5. Realities of Asymmetric War and the Iranian Adversary

(20:40–25:56)

• Iran’s forces are driven both by privilege and zealous loyalty.
• Their experiences with past military action by the U.S. and Israel have made them resilient and highly adaptive to asymmetric warfare.
• Intelligence assessments on destruction of Iranian capabilities are frequently overstated and misleading.
• Will and morale on the enemy side are key factors often underestimated.

Quote:

“It is literally the modern day equivalent of the body count. And it really doesn’t matter what the body count is. It matters the will of the people you’re fighting against.” — Hertling (23:37)

6. The Human Cost & Character of the Military

(25:56–31:58)

• Sykes references the deeply personal side of military service as depicted in Hertling’s book—emphasizing the human stakes involved in sending troops into harm’s way.
• Reflection on the erosion of the military as a citizen force; the emergence of a “warrior caste” separate from broader American society, echoing concerns articulated by David French and Stan McChrystal.

Quote:

"If you have a choice between being a good soldier and being a good human being, be a good human being first. That’s how you become a good officer." — Sykes, referencing Hertling’s book (28:59)

• Hertling invokes Tom Wolfe’s warnings about a military cast apart:

“...the military, because it's becoming a caste, will become sentinels at the bacchanal, sentinels at the bacchanalian feast.” — Hertling (29:20)

7. Politicization and Remaking Military Culture

(31:58–34:50)

• Under the current administration, there’s an active effort to remake military culture in a more aggressive, politicized image.
• The risk of political interference is acute, especially via unaccountable figures like Hegseth.
• The military risks being used as an arm of partisan politics, undermining traditions of apolitical service and professionalism.

Quote:

“There are so many people that want to be associated with the military, but not many people who understand it.” — Hertling (32:50)

8. Intervention in Military Promotions

(34:50–36:54)

• Pete Hegseth's reported intervention to remove women and minorities from promotion lists is unprecedented and alarming, bypassing standard, highly rigorous procedures.
• The lack of explanation for these removals signals an arbitrary, political approach to military leadership.

Quote:

“In my four decades of service, I've never seen it happen...for an arbitrary pulling of two women and two males, one of which I think was African American, that's just horrific in my view.” — Hertling (35:13)

9. Lessons from Europe, Ukraine & the Shadow of Putin

(36:54–42:52)

• Hertling details his unsuccessful 2012 effort to prevent withdrawal of U.S. armored brigades from Europe—warning at the time this would embolden Russia.
• Lack of deterrence led directly to Russia's move into Crimea and the Donbas.
• The potential withdrawal of remaining U.S. troops from Europe under Trump would deeply destabilize NATO and encourage further Russian aggression, possibly beyond Ukraine.

Quote:

“You can deploy soldiers, you can't deploy trust. And that was my big argument.” — Hertling (38:26)

10. Closing Thoughts: The Road Ahead

(42:52–43:54)

• Sykes emphasizes the dangerous global moment: with the U.S. signaling potential retreat and key alliances fraying, the world is becoming more dangerous, not less.
• Hertling closes with a call for humility, kindness, and renewed national character.

Quote:

“We just got to continue to build character within our nation and come back a little bit more humble and a little bit more kind to each other.” — Hertling (43:40)

Notable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

• On Strategy and Confusion:

  "The military has been a little bit confused about what the desired end state is from a political perspective." (09:33, Hertling)

• On Decision-Making:

  "The focus, even, I think, on Carg island is kind of indicative of what is happening inside the Oval Office because it has become a shiny object." (17:51, Hertling)

• On Body Counts and Misconceptions:

  “It is literally the modern day equivalent of the body count. And it really doesn’t matter what the body count is. It matters the will of the people you’re fighting against.” (23:37, Hertling)

• On the Transformation of Military Culture:

  “The military, because it's becoming a caste, will become sentinels at the bacchanal, sentinels at the bacchanalian feast.” (29:20, Hertling, quoting Tom Wolfe)

• On Politicization:

  “There are so many people that want to be associated with the military, but not many people who understand it.” (32:50, Hertling)

• On Unprecedented Promotion Interference:

  “In my four decades of service, I've never seen it happen...that's just horrific in my view.” (35:13, Hertling)

• On the Importance of Trust in Alliances:

  “You can deploy soldiers, you can't deploy trust.” (38:26, Hertling)

Key Timestamps

• 02:15 – Show opens, Sykes sets the scene, introduces Hertling
• 03:27 – Hertling details U.S. deployments, confusion over missions
• 09:33 – Hertling: Military is confused about political end state
• 14:48 – Discussion of Trump's decision-making & sizzle reel briefings
• 17:51 – Dangers of simplistic thinking on objectives like Kharg Island
• 23:37 – Hertling debunks false metrics (body count, target destruction)
• 28:59 – Sykes explores the book’s central insight: character matters
• 32:50 – Civil-military gap; values, discipline, and risk of politicization
• 35:13 – Discussing Hegseth's interference in military promotions
• 38:26 – Lessons from U.S. withdrawal from Europe; trusting alliances
• 42:52 – Sykes’ closing remarks on the newly dangerous world order
• 43:40 – Hertling’s closing thoughts on kindness, humility, and character

The Takeaway

This episode is an urgent meditation on civil-military relations and American global leadership at a crossroads. General Hertling not only critiques the tactical confusion and dangerous politicization emanating from the Trump administration, but situates the debate in broader concerns: the meaning of service, the integrity of military culture, the fragility of alliances, and the real human costs of strategic ambiguity.

Recommended Reading:
If I Don't Return: A Father’s Wartime Journal by Mark Hertling

Listen to full episode for unabridged insights and first-hand accounts.