Podcast Summary: "Trump’s America Becomes the Neighborhood Bully"
Podcast: To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes
Host: Charlie Sykes
Guest: Anne Applebaum (The Atlantic)
Date: January 6, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode, recorded on the fifth anniversary of January 6th, examines the seismic changes in American foreign policy after Donald Trump’s controversial military action in Venezuela. Host Charlie Sykes and guest Anne Applebaum discuss the implications of the U.S. attack, the dismissal of democratic movements, the collapse of legitimacy at home and abroad, the new American ‘sphere of influence’ doctrine, and the troubling comparisons between current U.S. policy and past imperialist or authoritarian regimes. The conversation grapples with how these actions are reshaping America's identity and standing in the world, with thought-provoking insights into the nature of power, legitimacy, and American ideals.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. U.S. Aggression and the Venezuela Operation
- Opening Context: The U.S. administration has threatened or taken action against multiple countries in the early days of 2026, with Venezuela being the focal point after the seizure of President Maduro.
- Charlie Sykes (01:04): “We're just a few days in, and the United States is already threatening military action... I think we bombed Nigeria in the last few weeks.”
- Trump's "Judicious" Justification: Trump announced the U.S. would “run the country” of Venezuela until a "judicious transition" could be made, raising fears of occupation and imperial control.
- Donald Trump (Clip, 02:58): “We’re going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition...”
- Anne Applebaum’s Analysis:
- There is no real strategy—just a desire for dramatic, dominating actions for attention.
- Running Venezuela seriously would require “100,000 people...an occupying force” (04:22), which is not happening; Trump is already bored of the aftermath.
- The fate of Venezuela’s democratic opposition is ignored; Trump dismissed their leader as irrelevant, which shocked and angered Venezuelans.
2. Legitimacy, Democracy, and Naked Self-Interest
- Lack of Pretense: Unlike previous interventions, there is no fig leaf of democracy promotion; it is openly about U.S. interests, particularly oil.
- Charlie Sykes (13:36): “He keeps referring to it as our oil. And the Venezuelan oil is going to pay for all of this.”
- Anne Applebaum (14:20): “It's a very strange point because first of all, it's not our oil. We don't own [it]... The oil has always been Venezuela's oil.”
- Ignoring the Opposition: The legitimate opposition (which won the 2024 election) is sidelined—all that matters is who will “do Trump’s bidding.”
- Anne Applebaum (08:44): “The big word that he isn’t using...is legitimacy. He’s not very interested in whether the new regime is legitimate... He seems to believe he can deal with whoever comes after [Maduro] in such a way that the US needs will be met... uninterested in democracy, uninterested in transparency.”
- Open Questions: Uncertainty looms over how Venezuelan opposition, paramilitary groups, and oil interests will be handled without a real legal or political plan.
- Comparison to Panama: Applebaum notes that even prior U.S. actions (like Panama) differed significantly, as they involved attempts at legitimizing regime change and regional cooperation.
3. Congressional Exclusion & Eroded Checks
- No Congressional Role: Congress was neither informed nor asked to authorize the Venezuela operation, a stark break even from recent U.S. precedent.
- Charlie Sykes (15:18): “Congress did not authorize this action. Congress was not even informed, which was really extraordinary...”
- Anne Applebaum (16:49): “The President has decided he doesn't have to tell Congress at all... makes it… by the standards of our system... another legitimacy question... This isn't how we do things.”
4. Hypocrisy and Lack of Strategy
- Inconsistent Logic: Trump can’t explain why he pardoned the former Honduran president convicted for drug trafficking, while attacking Venezuela for similar reasons.
- Charlie Sykes (20:46): "If we’ve now gone to war because the president of Venezuela is involved in drugs, how do you explain the fact that you just pardoned the president of Honduras? … hypocrisy with hair on it."
- Anne Applebaum (21:20): “It’s further proof of what I said at the beginning. There isn’t a strategy...it’s a string of individual actions that aren’t necessarily connected.”
5. The “Neighborhood Bully”: Shift in U.S. Global Identity
- Expanding Aggression: Open speculation about next targets (Cuba, Iran, Mexico, Colombia) as administration pursues dominance by personal whim rather than principle.
- Anne Applebaum (24:39): “I will exert my will according to my personal whim. There isn’t a theory about democracy or rule of law...That’s what makes this era...so actually hard to predict, dangerous, and likely to create a backlash.”
- Consequences for Allies: Other countries are hedging allies, reevaluating their relationships with the U.S., considering ways to resist or distance themselves.
- Anne Applebaum (24:39): “You’ll see in the Western Hemisphere people beginning to talk among one another about how do we resist the United States. [...] Eventually...this is now an unpredictable, possibly dangerous country to be too close to.”
- America’s Self-Image Decaying:
- Charlie Sykes (29:04): "It feels as if shift. We have undergone this tremendous shift from American exceptionalism to ... now we’re just the ordinary neighborhood bully."
- Anne Applebaum (30:14): “Our foreign policy was always aspirational...there were elements of it that were indisputably good...Once the only thing we’re seen as doing in the world is damage and destruction and chaos and instability, I think it will affect how people feel about the United States.”
6. Greenland: Trolling or Threat?
- Escalating Rhetoric: The administration appears serious about annexing Greenland, alarming Danish and NATO officials.
- No Rational Basis: U.S. already has full access for military and commercial needs; motivation appears to be nothing more than satisfying Trump’s ego.
- Anne Applebaum (36:36): “Whatever it is that the United States wants to do in Greenland, it can do right now...the best answer...is that Donald Trump likes the way Greenland looks on a map. [...] It's about this impression of dominance or winning."
- Danger to NATO: Actions threaten to unravel core alliances; European leaders actively plan for possible U.S. hostility.
7. The “Sphere of Influence” Doctrine and the Russia/China Factor
- Imitation of Big Power Politics: Trump’s approach mirrors Russian theory—big powers dominate their regions, “the little countries shut up.”
- Anne Applebaum (44:31): “There is a kind of theory of geopolitics...in which the US dominates the Western Hemisphere, Russia dominates Europe, and China dominates Asia. [...] This is a Russian idea.”
- Strategic Catastrophe: Shrinking U.S. interests to the Western Hemisphere would cut America off from vital economic and political alliances, ceding global leadership (and trade) to others.
- Anne Applebaum (47:00): “It would be an enormous economic disaster over time... would entail...the end of any kind of American-powered influence in the world.”
8. January 6 as a Turning Point: Who Is Running America Now?
- Transformation of Leadership: The insurrection marked a recruiting event for radicals now working in government.
- Anne Applebaum (50:28): “Anybody who hated America as it was...was attracted to Donald Trump after January 6...These are people who want radical, I would say, Bolshevik style revolution..."
- Lasting Impact: The post-January 6 atmosphere enables “transformative, radical, damaging” policies at home and abroad.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Trump's Style of Leadership:
- Anne Applebaum (04:22): “Donald Trump doesn’t have strategies. What he is interested in is dominating or winning any particular given moment.”
- On Hypocrisy and Lack of Principle:
- Anne Applebaum (21:20): “The freeing of the former president of Honduras…has nothing, in Trump’s mind, to do with the situation in Venezuela. He treats everything one by one… What’s the advantage for me?”
- On U.S. Self-Image and Global Standing:
- Anne Applebaum (30:46): “Once the only thing we’re seen as doing in the world is damage and destruction and chaos and instability, I think it will affect how people feel about the United States.”
- On the “Sphere of Influence” Doctrine:
- Anne Applebaum (44:31): “There is a kind of theory of geopolitics... that the way to achieve peace in the world is to have three spheres of influence... This is a Russian idea.”
- On Post–January 6 Radicalization:
- Anne Applebaum (50:28): “After January 6, a different kind of person was attracted to work for Donald Trump…who believed in radical transformation of the United States... because he attacked the political system and he got away with it.”
Key Timestamps
- 01:04 — Sykes sets the tone on U.S. aggression, names countries targeted
- 02:58 — Trump’s Venezuela statement, “we’re going to run the country”
- 04:22 — Applebaum on absence of strategy, focus on headlines not outcomes
- 08:44 — Dismissal of democracy/opposition, all about deals, legitimacy ignored
- 13:36 — The “it’s our oil” moment and candid discussion of motives
- 15:18 — Congressional exclusion—no consultation or authorization
- 20:08 — Trump confronted about pardoning Honduran drug trafficker
- 24:39 — Applebaum: “I will exert my will according to my personal whim”
- 30:14–31:30 — The fading of the good guy myth, effects on American psychology
- 36:36 — U.S. threats on Greenland, reactions in Denmark
- 44:31–47:52 — The “big powers dominate” doctrine and catastrophic consequences
- 50:28 — January 6th’s role in staffing the administration with authoritarians
Overall Tone
The conversation is urgent, analytical, and at times darkly humorous—reflecting on the absurdity and peril of recent American foreign policy choices.
- Charlie Sykes (20:46): "Jesus Christ. I mean, this is—your thoughts on that?"
- Anne Applebaum (29:45): “Once the only thing we’re seen as doing…is damage…people will feel worse about themselves and worse about the country.”
Conclusion
This episode offers a sobering, insightful account of how U.S. foreign policy has abandoned its traditional ideals and restrictions, with dangerous implications for American identity, alliances, and the global order. It highlights the move from democratic aspiration to raw, unpredictable power—and the likelihood that both the world, and Americans themselves, will never see the country the same way again.
For more: Find Anne Applebaum’s writing in The Atlantic and her podcast "Autocracy in America."