To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes

Episode: Trump’s Despicable New Low

Date: December 16, 2025

Guests: Charlie Sykes (host), Harry Littman (Talking Feds)

Overview

This episode grapples with a series of grim national events and focuses heavily on Donald Trump’s incendiary response to the murder of director Rob Reiner and his wife. Charlie Sykes and Harry Littman dissect the latest Trump-related controversies, escalating antisemitic violence, the troubling weaponization of government powers, the erosion of constitutional norms, and the rapidly deteriorating standards of public decency and accountability in American political life. They address the stunning lack of empathy from Trump, the consequences for national morale, the Supreme Court's looming decisions on presidential power, the abuse of the pardon power, military dissent, and the darkly surreal proliferation of lies from the Trump administration.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. National Tragedies and Trump's Reaction

Timestamp: 02:27–10:32

• Charlie Sykes introduces a series of tragic events: a massacre of Jews in Australia, a foiled domestic terror attack in Los Angeles, and the murder of Rob Reiner and his wife—a family tragedy erroneously politicized in media.
• Sykes reads out Trump’s social media reaction to the Reiners’ death, which blames “Trump Derangement Syndrome” and centers Trump rather than the victims.

  • "With his obvious paranoia reaching new heights as the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations of greatness ... May Rob and Michel rest in peace." (Trump via Sykes, 04:10)

• Harry Littman reacts with shock, questioning the mindset of Trump and his supporters:

  • “You have to imagine somehow, you know, the moon landing, the fall of the Berlin Wall, it's all got a Trump, Trump centric story ... Every single precept, he just, excuse the expression, like pisses all over every day.” (06:08)

• Sykes highlights the hypocrisy: MAGA influencers previously demanded respectful reactions to Charlie Kirk’s murder, yet now ignore Trump’s ghoulish response to Reiner.
• Both hosts discuss the collapse of public decency and the embarrassment/shame this causes Americans:

  • “When you have somebody who's incapable of empathy ... he's a broken person. But to your point, it's a broken country that supports him.” (Sykes, quoting Chuck Todd, 07:55)

  • “It's a day of mourning where it feels like the world is coming apart ... it's a day of embarrassment and shame to be an American.” (Littman, 08:51)

Memorable Moment

• Littman's tribute to Rob Reiner's kindness in helping fledgling podcasts, emphasizing the personal loss and Reiner’s “menshiness.” (09:23–10:32)

2. Rising Antisemitism and Global Responses

Timestamp: 10:32–12:58

• The Australia attack is discussed as an emblem of deadly antisemitism. Sykes contrasts Australia’s swift policy response (gun law reforms likely) to American inaction after the Brown University shooting.

  • “If there's any good news at all ... in Australia, unlike in the United States, they will do something.” (Sykes, 11:15)

• Harry Littman points out how even progressive societies can succumb to hate:

  • “Every time [antisemitism] rears its head, it's a sign of some kind of national decay. It really is tragic.” (11:29)

• Both raise civil liberties concerns around prematurely releasing names of suspects (Brown shooting), the dangers of damaging reputations, and government overreach.

3. The Weaponization of Government

Timestamp: 12:58–16:19

• Premature public accusations (leaking names) are tied to erosion of DOJ norms and the rise of reputational punishment as a political weapon.

  • “...the strategy ... is actually to bring charges they know will fail just in order to ... completely dirty up somebody's reputation.” (Littman, 12:58)

• Discussion of administration plans (Pam Bondi’s memo) to label anyone left of MAGA as possible “domestic extremists”—a threat to First Amendment rights.

  • “It's just the complete going after the tyranny toward dissent ... trying to undermine normal, straightforward dissent.” (Littman, 15:17)

4. Expanding Presidential Power – Supreme Court Cases

Timestamp: 16:19–23:45

• The hosts delve into the Supreme Court’s apparent willingness to vastly expand presidential power, particularly over “independent” agencies (unitary executive theory).

  • “...they will have destroyed the independence of the Fed which will have consequences.” (Sykes, 18:37)

• Littman predicts a carve-out exception for the Fed may occur, but confesses it would be intellectually incoherent. He identifies the court’s reluctance to let Trump seize “emergency powers” (important pending case).

  • “...the emergency power ... the deference it’s given him to call emergency and do all kinds of mischief is huge ... it’s just nail biting.” (Littman, 18:56)

• Discussion of the “tariff power” case—will the court permit Trump to bypass Congress and impose tariffs? Both guests predict the Court will rebuff Trump, but only after agonizing uncertainty.

5. The Abuse of the Pardon Power

Timestamp: 23:45–32:28

• Sykes and Littman agree the Founders made a grave mistake in granting unbounded pardon power. Trump’s use of pardons has “no area of greater corruption.”

  • “There was an incandescent bright line that existed before the immunity opinion ... fits the elements of a crime. And the court didn’t say you can’t commit a crime, just that he can’t be prosecuted for it.” (Littman, 24:33)

• The Supreme Court’s recent immunity decision has eliminated practical restraint, Littman warns, leaving only a constitutional amendment for reform.
• Sykes notes the deeply unpopular nature of recent Trump pardons, citing YouGov numbers (67%–66% disapproval). The abuse of pardons, rather than strengthening Trump politically, is backfiring.

  • “This is not a political plus for Trump ... we have three years of this ... and will probably escalate the more he becomes a lame duck president” (Sykes, 29:00)

• Littman: the unpopularity of pardons is a sign Trump’s actions are “hitting home.”

6. Military Dissent in the Face of Unlawful Orders

Timestamp: 32:28–37:13

• The case of Admiral Alvin Halsey’s principled resignation over “extrajudicial killings” in the Caribbean is detailed.

  • “He just gives it up out of principle ... just quietly didn’t come out and trash Hex Seth. He did what, you know, the honorable thing is or used to be ... just, you know, quietly stand down.” (Littman, 33:59)

• Sykes and Littman stress the rarity and importance of such ethical stands.

• Ongoing attempts to intimidate Sen. Mark Kelly (former astronaut and Navy pilot) are branded as counterproductive and legally dubious.

  • “Calling a sitting US Senator who cites the law ... sedition ... is a total non starter and something ... their own military would reject.” (Littman, 37:13)

7. Extrajudicial Killings and Legal/Normative Breakdown

Timestamp: 40:33–43:45

• The hosts liken the administration’s “blow up the boats” anti-drug campaign to outright murder, challenging the moral and legal justification.
• Even John Yoo (of the infamous “torture memos”) is quoted condemning this policy, showing how far the administration has strayed, legally and ethically.

  • “No less a personage than John Yoo, the author of Torture Memos, come out and said, this seems like complete illegitimate.” (Littman, 43:45)

8. Alternative Reality and the Escalation of Lies

Timestamp: 44:06–47:54

• Sykes and Littman assess the qualitative leap in misinformation and gaslighting by Trump and his administration.

  • “They've taken up occupancy in a stratosphere of crazy ... regularly peddling assertions that boggle the mind ... What planet are they from?” (Sykes, citing Littman’s writing, 46:47)

• Littman sees a new, more dangerous strategy of simply flooding the field with shameless, provably false statements—surpassing even previous levels of dishonesty.

  • “It really is a different kind of ... consummate shamelessness to just look you right in the eye and ... just say absolute fiction.” (Littman, 46:54)

9. Final Reflections

Timestamp: 47:29–47:46

• The episode closes with Sykes and Littman reaffirming their mission: reassuring listeners “you are not the crazy ones.”

  • “I also think that this conversation has met our mission statement of reminding people ... that we are not the crazy ones.” (Sykes, 47:46)

Notable Quotes

• Harry Littman:
  • “Every single precept, he just, excuse the expression, like pisses all over every day.” (06:08)
  • “It's a day of mourning where it feels like the world is coming apart ... a day of embarrassment and shame to be an American.” (08:51)
  • “The consummate shamelessness to just look you right in the eye and not just push tilt, but just say absolute fiction.” (46:54)
• Charlie Sykes:
  • “This is not a political plus for Trump ... and will probably escalate the more he becomes a lame duck president.” (29:00)
  • “They've taken up occupancy in a stratosphere of crazy ... What planet are they from?” (46:47)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start Time | |---------------------------------------------------|------------| | Introduction & National Tragedies | 02:27 | | Trump’s Rob Reiner Post & MAGA Hypocrisy | 03:53 | | The Loss of Decency – National Reflection | 07:55 | | Antisemitism & Australia/Brown shootings | 10:32 | | Weaponization of Accusations & Lists | 12:58 | | Supreme Court & Unitary Executive Theory | 16:19 | | Presidential Tariff Power & Court Predictions | 21:41 | | Abuse of the Pardon Power | 23:45 | | Admiral Halsey’s Resignation | 32:28 | | Mark Kelly Targeted, Military Dissent | 36:00 | | Extrajudicial Killings in Caribbean | 40:33 | | Trump's Alternative Reality Government | 44:06 | | Closing Reflections | 47:29 |

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is urgent, cerebral, and emotionally raw, channeling a mix of outrage, dark humor, and sorrow. Both voices are analytic yet deeply personal, balancing political insights with reflections on decency and national character.

Summary Takeaway

This episode delivers a bracing look at the depths of Trump-era governance and discourse, highlighting not only the political and legal dangers, but also the broader erosion of public virtue, truth, and the norms underpinning American democracy. It's a call to recognize the present darkness—but also a reminder, per the show’s mission, that “you are not the crazy ones.”